Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students => Topic started by: lawguy2b on September 02, 2012, 10:46:09 AM

Title: Novus Law School
Post by: lawguy2b on September 02, 2012, 10:46:09 AM
I just graduated from Novus Law School-non-ABA or accredited- in August 2012.  The school fit my needs and I work as a paralegal for a law firm.  I do everything an attorney does but go to court and give legal advice. This school is not for everyone so read carefully.  You could take the bar exam in some states, so read the requirements.  My experience was good, no problems with the staff or school getting assignments graded.  I spent one year at Concord Law School which allows you to take the CA Bar Exam.  Look at the success rate of passing the exam-low.  Oakbrook Law School would be my choice for cost and bar passing rate if you want to take the CA bar.  I was not interested in taking the bar at age 65-nor to take on that much debt-so I switched to Novus.  My experience was good at Novus, you learn what you put into the program.  I am a retired college professor and self-directed learning was my focus while a professor, to fit the needs of a non-traditional student. You must be disciplined to get through any self-study program, Novus and all the online schools are  a real challenge for those who aren't-so be aware of the challenge to complete the program at Novus in two years, I did complete in two years.  I hope this answers questions about Novus Law School.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: cooley3L on September 02, 2012, 02:17:49 PM
You are saying that you went to Novus and then just one year at Concord and they let you take the state bar? Never heard that in my life. Can you provide a link to where the state of CA shows they allow this method?
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 03, 2012, 07:22:13 PM
 :o A retired college professor would have realized Novus in an unaccredited offshore diploma mill perhaps?
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on September 04, 2012, 10:01:00 AM
 For someone like the OP, who does not intend to practice law, such a program might be fine to learn something about the law. My issue (as always) is that if the program is not accredited by the ABA or a state bar, then it's difficult to ascertain whether or not the education is up to snuff. Is it rigorous? Does it abide by minimally acceptable academic standards? With an accredited school the consumer knows what their getting, with unaccredited programs there is less certainty. There are exceptions of course, such as Taft and Oak Brook, which seem to have better reputations than other unaccredited schools.

Personally, I believe that absent ABA or state bar accreditation these schools should not be permitted to grant J.D.s. I think it misleads the public, who associate the granting of a law degree with certain academic standards and admissions requirements.

 
You are saying that you went to Novus and then just one year at Concord and they let you take the state bar? Never heard that in my life. Can you provide a link to where the state of CA shows they allow this method?

The CA bar allows different paths to bar admission that other states don't. One method is graduation from an unaccredited school that is registered with the CA bar. Novus is not registered with the CA bar, but Concord is, and the Calbar website says something like a "combination" of methods may be used to gain bar admission. It's also possible that a Novus grad can qualify under the attorney-assisted study method. 
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 04, 2012, 05:16:36 PM
And who exactly is Novus?  Is there even a single attorney associated with the school, if not, how can it purport to grant a JD?  Just because they say they are a law school does not make them one.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: cooley3L on September 05, 2012, 01:56:31 PM
For someone like the OP, who does not intend to practice law, such a program might be fine to learn something about the law. My issue (as always) is that if the program is not accredited by the ABA or a state bar, then it's difficult to ascertain whether or not the education is up to snuff. Is it rigorous? Does it abide by minimally acceptable academic standards? With an accredited school the consumer knows what their getting, with unaccredited programs there is less certainty. There are exceptions of course, such as Taft and Oak Brook, which seem to have better reputations than other unaccredited schools.

Personally, I believe that absent ABA or state bar accreditation these schools should not be permitted to grant J.D.s. I think it misleads the public, who associate the granting of a law degree with certain academic standards and admissions requirements.

 
You are saying that you went to Novus and then just one year at Concord and they let you take the state bar? Never heard that in my life. Can you provide a link to where the state of CA shows they allow this method?

The CA bar allows different paths to bar admission that other states don't. One method is graduation from an unaccredited school that is registered with the CA bar. Novus is not registered with the CA bar, but Concord is, and the Calbar website says something like a "combination" of methods may be used to gain bar admission. It's also possible that a Novus grad can qualify under the attorney-assisted study method.
still wouldn't meet the requirments. He would have had to sit the FYBX. He didn't mention that at all. Just another attempt at Novus to lie and sucker in recruits. If they waste a few posts per username and make a few grand of even just one sucker, then it is worth it to them. (since it is not even a school and probably just one or two scam artists anyways) I would rather risk sending money to that "rich uncle in africa" that spams every now and then.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 05, 2012, 04:48:29 PM
Novus is a notorius diploma mill:

http://www.geteducated.com/diploma-mill-police/degree-mills-list/novus-university-accreditation

Yet not a single state bar goes after them, I guess the state bars are too busy protecting us from properly licensed non ABA attorneys.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on September 05, 2012, 06:50:51 PM
If a "law school" is not accredited by any recognized accrediting agency, or registered with the California State Bar, under whose authority does it grant degrees?

Where on earth is the ABA and the state bar?

I'm increasingly convinced that we need to move in the direction of Germany on this issue. Germany has restricted the commercial and professional use of terms such as "university". Only accredited institutions meeting specific criteria can call themselves universities and grant degrees. Other institutions can only grant certificates, etc. Individuals can only legally claim degrees earned from legit schools.

We've allowed the definition of university, law school, doctorate, etc to become so watered down that pretty much anybody can start issuing Ph.Ds from their garage and it's fine. Call me old fashioned, but I think earning a Ph.D should mean more than sending $5000 to an offshore account. It's stupid, and undermines the value of an education.





 
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: cooley3L on September 06, 2012, 11:13:19 AM
If a "law school" is not accredited by any recognized accrediting agency, or registered with the California State Bar, under whose authority does it grant degrees?

Where on earth is the ABA and the state bar?

I'm increasingly convinced that we need to move in the direction of Germany on this issue. Germany has restricted the commercial and professional use of terms such as "university". Only accredited institutions meeting specific criteria can call themselves universities and grant degrees. Other institutions can only grant certificates, etc. Individuals can only legally claim degrees earned from legit schools.

We've allowed the definition of university, law school, doctorate, etc to become so watered down that pretty much anybody can start issuing Ph.Ds from their garage and it's fine. Call me old fashioned, but I think earning a Ph.D should mean more than sending $5000 to an offshore account. It's stupid, and undermines the value of an education.
It claims to be based in the Marshall Islands (where it has a bank account and a license to be a business) but the owner lives in CA.
She should be arrested, but she won't.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on September 06, 2012, 12:20:12 PM
They're not breaking any laws.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: Cher1300 on September 06, 2012, 03:19:58 PM
They're not breaking any laws.

They are not.  Just like any other scam, however, they are counting on the few people who won't do their research.  You really can't blame the school.  Some responsibility needs to taken by the people giving these institutions money.  I really think some people view these schools as the "easy" way to become a lawyer not realizing how much more difficult it will be fore them later on.  Then again, maybe not since they still won't have a job but will have less debt? 
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: cooley3L on September 07, 2012, 05:39:31 PM
They're not breaking any laws.
The Federal Govt may disagree with that

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt149.shtm
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: lawguy2b on September 16, 2012, 01:40:05 PM
To clarify-I went to Concord Law School one year.  After that one year, I switched and went to Novus completing their requirements to graduate in two years.  I did not take the Baby Bar, I was not interested in taking any bar exam, I am retired.  I do work as a paralegal and the course work between the two schools has helped me in my job as a paralegal.  My work on a criminal case resulted in a not guilty verdict for our client.  Novus does have two accreditations and yes-As a retired college professor I am aware of their non ABA status.  My work was supervised by a Juris Doctorate, won't give his name out without permission.  It is up to each individual to decide the path they want to take-And the ABA is nothing more than a dues collecting organization.  A state Supreme Court judge, where I live, does not believe that online school graduates should be kept from taking the bar just because they are not graduating from an ABA school.
JUSTICE HEIPLE, dissenting:

By the amendment to Rule 711 and by Rule 703, which was previously adopted, this court recognizes only law schools which have been approved by the American Bar Association. I both dissent and object to these rules because they represent an improper delegation of a governmental and judicial function to a trade association of lawyers.

The American Bar Association is a voluntary association of dues paying lawyers (currently $225 per annum) that exists for the benefit of its members. No lawyer is required to belong. Most do not. It clothes its parochial existence with an overlay of public activities and pronouncements designed to convince the general public that it is interested in the general welfare. That its primary focus is the benefit of its members, however, is beyond question. That the American Bar Association is a trade association warrants neither commendation nor condemnation. As a trade association engaging in improving the status of lawyers and lobbying Congress and the State legislatures, it is on a par with any other trade association. It is decidedly not, however, an arm of the State of Illinois nor of this court.

It is improper for this court to assign and delegate to that organization the ultimate decisionmaking function of deciding for the State of Illinois which law schools warrant official recognition. It would be proper, of course, for this court and its Board of Law Examiners (now, Board of Admissions to the Bar) to consider and weigh the evaluations of the American Bar Association in considering which law schools are to be approved. The work of the American Bar Association in evaluating law schools could be considered as relevant evidence in that regard. No objection could be raised to that procedure.

This court, however, has no right to delegate its decisionmaking function to the American Bar Association, the Teamsters Union, the Republic of Uganda or any other such body or group. If the rule asserts a valid principle of law, then this court could as well assign all of its decisionmaking functions to others who might be considered experts in their field.

For the reasons given, I respectfully dissent.

Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: cooley3L on September 16, 2012, 03:36:31 PM
To clarify-I went to Concord Law School one year.  After that one year, I switched and went to Novus completing their requirements to graduate in two years.  I did not take the Baby Bar, I was not interested in taking any bar exam, I am retired.  I do work as a paralegal and the course work between the two schools has helped me in my job as a paralegal.  My work on a criminal case resulted in a not guilty verdict for our client.  Novus does have two accreditations and yes-As a retired college professor I am aware of their non ABA status.  My work was supervised by a Juris Doctorate, won't give his name out without permission.  It is up to each individual to decide the path they want to take-And the ABA is nothing more than a dues collecting organization.  A state Supreme Court judge, where I live, does not believe that online school graduates should be kept from taking the bar just because they are not graduating from an ABA school.
JUSTICE HEIPLE, dissenting:

By the amendment to Rule 711 and by Rule 703, which was previously adopted, this court recognizes only law schools which have been approved by the American Bar Association. I both dissent and object to these rules because they represent an improper delegation of a governmental and judicial function to a trade association of lawyers.

The American Bar Association is a voluntary association of dues paying lawyers (currently $225 per annum) that exists for the benefit of its members. No lawyer is required to belong. Most do not. It clothes its parochial existence with an overlay of public activities and pronouncements designed to convince the general public that it is interested in the general welfare. That its primary focus is the benefit of its members, however, is beyond question. That the American Bar Association is a trade association warrants neither commendation nor condemnation. As a trade association engaging in improving the status of lawyers and lobbying Congress and the State legislatures, it is on a par with any other trade association. It is decidedly not, however, an arm of the State of Illinois nor of this court.

It is improper for this court to assign and delegate to that organization the ultimate decisionmaking function of deciding for the State of Illinois which law schools warrant official recognition. It would be proper, of course, for this court and its Board of Law Examiners (now, Board of Admissions to the Bar) to consider and weigh the evaluations of the American Bar Association in considering which law schools are to be approved. The work of the American Bar Association in evaluating law schools could be considered as relevant evidence in that regard. No objection could be raised to that procedure.

This court, however, has no right to delegate its decisionmaking function to the American Bar Association, the Teamsters Union, the Republic of Uganda or any other such body or group. If the rule asserts a valid principle of law, then this court could as well assign all of its decisionmaking functions to others who might be considered experts in their field.

For the reasons given, I respectfully dissent.
???
So, first you go from saying that it allowed you to sit the bar to saying that you didn't even take the fybx because you are retired and didn't want to sit any bar? -WTF?!?!?! (are you even trying to keep up with yourself here?)

It appears you tried to cover your tracks by saying that is "allowed you to become a paralegal" and that you somehow think that is the practice of law.

You mention working under a Juris Doctorate (come on dude, really) First if someone where to use that title they would say "Juris Doctor" second no lawyer would go by that period, third if comparing it to schools like Novus it wouldn't mean he was even licensed, and fourth it would imply that by comparison you are saying you DON'T have a JD (defeats your core argument) And of course it was "supervised" otherwise it would have been illegal. It was HIS work, not yours, HIS, he just let you help.

Not to even mention that you can be a paralegal without Novus (or any other paper) and that if your employer did require college that your past as an alleged college Prof would imply the other qualifications were the weight that made it possible (not Novus)

Which begs the questions, where were you a Prof and what other education do you have and from where? (I suspect less than a Harvard Phd)

And then you quote a dissent as if it is proof anything? Do you even know what a dissent is?

You are either a troll, or the only proof anyone would ever need to know not to attend where you claim to have gone.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 16, 2012, 05:25:44 PM
 "Novus does have two accreditations "  and both are bogus.

Here is the truth:

"NOVUS UNIVERSITY IS INCORPORATED UNDER THE LAWS OF THE MARSHALL ISLANDS. NOVUS UNIVERSITY IS A PRIVATE POSTSECONDARY DEGREE GRANTING EDUCATIONAL CORPORATION AND ALL DEGREES ARE GRANTED BY NOVUS UNIVERSITY OF THE MARSHALL ISLANDS ,UNDER ITS  CORPORATE CHARTER AND THE AUTHORITY OF ITS BOARD OF DIRECTORS. NOVUS UNIVERSITY/NOVUS LAW SCHOOL OFFERS INSTRUCTION ONLINE ONLY AND WEB-BASED AND NOT IN ANY COUNTRY, STATE OR POLITICAL ENTITY. NOVUS UNIVERSITY/NOVUS LAW SCHOOL IS NOT ACCREDITED BY THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION."

Got that - a so called school incorporated offshore. http://www.novus.edu/generalinfo/terms_of_use.htm

here are the so called accredting  agencies:

http://www.novus.edu/generalinfo/member.htm

Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: cooley3L on September 16, 2012, 06:27:15 PM
I bet they both only exist on the Novus laptop.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 17, 2012, 07:01:26 AM
USDLA exists, anyone can join, it is a lobbying not accrediting organization:

http://www.usdla.org/become-a-member/

Same with CAEL, so the organizations are not fake, its just they do not accredit.

It would be like claiming your AARP membership makes you a lawyer.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: cooley3L on September 17, 2012, 10:21:00 AM
USDLA exists, anyone can join, it is a lobbying not accrediting organization:

http://www.usdla.org/become-a-member/

Same with CAEL, so the organizations are not fake, its just they do not accredit.

It would be like claiming your AARP membership makes you a lawyer.
makes you wonder why they even try that hard. Anyone willing to fall for NOVUS would fall for an absolute fake accrediting that they created on their own too. I doubt anyone is on the fence and goes, "oh wait, I know that company and now I trust these guys".
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: jaycube on October 22, 2012, 10:45:46 PM
There are some laws they are not obeying because of some strong connections in the ministries.
Title: Re: Novus Law School
Post by: legalpractitioner on October 23, 2012, 03:30:59 PM
A law school with no  one qualified to practice law associated wiht it, is violating the law of rational thought.