Law School Discussion

Off-Topic Area => General Off-Topic Board => Topic started by: 1lneighbor on June 08, 2012, 03:59:52 PM

Title: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: 1lneighbor on June 08, 2012, 03:59:52 PM
I've had a year of dealing with the crazy 1L GGU Law School student upstairs screaming and crying all night because she is constantly flunking tests.  Her parents pay for her $2000/month apartment, so she's not on financial aid.  I just found out that the reason she's still around this summer is because she's retaking the classes she flunked in GGU's summer school and no one would hire her for an internship.  Does anyone know how many retakes Tier 4 schools allow before they'll academically disqualify a student?  I can't take two more years of of hearing about her failures at 2 a.m. every night.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: fortook on June 09, 2012, 10:51:25 AM
Depends on the school. Look up the academic standards dumb.ass- and you think she should fail. Unempathizing piece of shi.t.  Help her. If its you, I hope someone helps you. If its not, f. you- heartless fool.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: john4040 on June 10, 2012, 01:29:41 AM
Don't worry, regardless of whether she graduates, she can always take solace in the fact that both of you will end up in the unemployment line after law school.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: 1lneighbor on June 10, 2012, 09:35:00 AM
I'm the original poster and should make clear: I am not a law student at Golden Gate.  I went to graduate school at the top school in my (not legal) field, where one "C" put a student on academic probation and two "C's" meant the student failed the quarter and was kicked out.  I've done very well in my career.  Meanwhile, the failing screaming brat who lives above me seems getting to be chance after chance at one of the worst law schools in the U.S. and I would like some who IS familiar with GGU Law's academic standards to tell me if I'm likely to have to deal with two (or more) years of this because the school seems to give failing students second chances and I want to know if it also gives third and fourth chances.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: fortook on June 10, 2012, 03:29:49 PM
Without knowing her grades or GPA there really is no way to answer this.  Law school is a different beast than grad school- don't compare the two.  For some reason both law and med schools make grading, work load and classes much harder and stressful than other graduate programs. Only a top percentage get above a 3.0 versus grad school where 3.0 is the minimum- non law people do not often understand that.

If below a 2.0, then normally the student goes on academic probation.  There is an evaluation and committee review. Probably, if she can't get her GPA up over the summer she will either be disqualified or put on probation (depending what her GPA is).

How can you be so heartless and selfish.  You really can't bring your self to feel for her, exhibit some level of sympathy even if she interrupts your sleep every now and again?  I mean damn man, you ain't got no love. Do you? 

What's going on in her head is likely something along the lines- "My dreams are dying, I'm such a loser. What is wrong with me? I hate myself.  If I fail, my life is over. Everyone will hate me. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME!!!!!!!".  If I were you I would be more worried about her trying to kill herself should she get kicked out- the blood will stain your ceiling and floor. Unless of course YOU get lucky and she kills herself with poison. 

I looked it up for you. Page 92. It is, of course, intentionally vague so the committee has more case control.

http://law.ggu.edu/media/law/documents/2011-2012%20Student%20Handbook.pdf
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on June 10, 2012, 06:26:41 PM
I've had a year of dealing with the crazy 1L GGU Law School student upstairs screaming and crying all night because she is constantly flunking tests.  Her parents pay for her $2000/month apartment, so she's not on financial aid.  I just found out that the reason she's still around this summer is because she's retaking the classes she flunked in GGU's summer school and no one would hire her for an internship.  Does anyone know how many retakes Tier 4 schools allow before they'll academically disqualify a student?  I can't take two more years of of hearing about her failures at 2 a.m. every night.

Interestingly, lower tier law schools like GGU are usually far less tolerant of academic underperformers than higher ranked schools. One of the biggest criticisms of tier 4 schools is that they admit large numbers of unqualified students, and then eliminate 25-35% through academic attrition. At a school like GGU the grading curve is probably set somewhere around 2.5-2.6. By comparison, Hastings has a curve of  (I think) 3.2. Considering that all ABA law schools teach nearly identical first year curricula, it's probably easier to get a 3.0 GPA at Hastings than it is at GGU.

If your plaintive neighbor was actually "constantly flunking tests" she'd likely have been gone after the second semester. If she re-flunked those same classes in summer school, it's hard to believe she'd still be allowed to continue. Schools like GGU have no qualms whatsoever about kicking out underperforming students. This is in part to protect their bar pass rates, which the ABA has started to consider for accreditation purposes.

Law school is incredibly competitve compared to other graduate programs. Not just difficult intellectually, but actually competitive like a sporting event. This causes some people to freak out and lose it. They can't handle the stress and probably shouldn't be there. It sucks to have obnoxious neighbors, but try to understand what she's going through. You mentioned that your graduate program would drop a student with two Cs. Imagine that your professors in grad school were only permitted to give As and Bs to 30% of the class, and were mandated to fail a certain number.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: FalconJimmy on June 11, 2012, 09:20:22 AM

Interestingly, lower tier law schools like GGU are usually far less tolerant of academic underperformers than higher ranked schools. One of the biggest criticisms of tier 4 schools is that they admit large numbers of unqualified students, and then eliminate 25-35% through academic attrition. At a school like GGU the grading curve is probably set somewhere around 2.5-2.6. By comparison, Hastings has a curve of  (I think) 3.2. Considering that all ABA law schools teach nearly identical first year curricula, it's probably easier to get a 3.0 GPA at Hastings than it is at GGU.

I don't suppose anybody here has considered that the OP is a crank?  Nobody "constantly flunks" tests in law school because nobody "constantly" takes tests.  You almost always take tests all at once, during final exams.  Which means, worst case, the student would be stressing out during final exams, then when they got their grades a month later.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: fortook on June 11, 2012, 11:08:50 AM
S/he probably just doesn't understand law school and doesn't like his/her neighbor. S/he also mentioned her parents pay $2000 rent- the only relevance is to show a contempt.  Of course, I thought 2k rent, Jesus, rich people problems.

Of course the crank possibility is always present though.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: Julie Fern on June 11, 2012, 05:53:05 PM
how much she spend on crank?
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: NiceOne on June 11, 2012, 07:28:00 PM
OP mentioned the $2k rent to show he/she can afford it.

OP finds a board, sets up an account, rants, and asks a question he/she could have found through minimal research.

OP probably just needs friends.

Smile.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: Julie Fern on June 12, 2012, 07:13:40 AM
yes, yes.  but how much on crank?
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: Nor-Cal on June 14, 2012, 11:44:10 PM
I'm actually surprised that people speak of GGU like it's a terrible school. I have never attended GGU, but the only two attorney's that I know of who graduated from GGU are some of the best attorney's in my area. One particular graduate, is the only attorney in the area who has filed three successful lawsuits against my employer and won every single case, lol. (The guy is known for being a shark in the courtroom)

Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: NiceOne on June 15, 2012, 02:35:15 AM
Nice...
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: FalconJimmy on June 15, 2012, 04:10:19 PM
I'm actually surprised that people speak of GGU like it's a terrible school. I have never attended GGU, but the only two attorney's that I know of who graduated from GGU are some of the best attorney's in my area. One particular graduate, is the only attorney in the area who has filed three successful lawsuits against my employer and won every single case, lol. (The guy is known for being a shark in the courtroom)

If you're going into practice for yourself, especially in the plaintiff's bar, then where you go to school probably doesn't matter so much.

For every other job, it matters a lot.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: Nor-Cal on June 18, 2012, 12:49:35 AM
The Attorney I'm speaking of who graduated from GGU, was a retired Deputy Sheriff who also teaches criminal law at the local Police Academy. I took a class from him several years ago, and then later I discovered his fierce reputation in the courtroom. Again, I've never attended GGU, but if he is any indication of what they produce, then GGU can't be all that bad IMO.
Title: Re: My 1L neighbor is driving me crazy
Post by: FalconJimmy on June 18, 2012, 08:32:03 AM
The Attorney I'm speaking of who graduated from GGU, was a retired Deputy Sheriff who also teaches criminal law at the local Police Academy. I took a class from him several years ago, and then later I discovered his fierce reputation in the courtroom. Again, I've never attended GGU, but if he is any indication of what they produce, then GGU can't be all that bad IMO.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Law School doesn't really produce attorneys.  Pretty much every ABA accredited law school uses the same books, and with a few exceptions, all the profs come from the same schools. 

Thing is, in the law, moreso than in any other profession I can think of offhand, the school you go to stays with you for the rest of your life.  In business, the school you go to usually doesn't mean squat once you've been working 2 or 3 years. 

GGU will, absolutely, close some doors to you, forever.  If you want to ignore this reality, go right ahead. 

However, it doesn't prevent you from becoming a great attorney.  You just have to have that within you. 

Whether by design or default, almost all the areas of the law I want to practice don't really require a top degree from a top school.  $160,000 is a lot of money, but for 70 hours a week?  Of course, the type of attorney who gets that starting salary is probably not big on work/life balance... at least not at first. 

So, getting a degree from GGU allows you to sit for the bar exam in all 50 states.  What you do with it beyond that is your business.  Is it worse than, say, most other 4Ts?  Who knows.  Who cares.  If that's the best school you can attend, then go there.  Then, practice in areas where a prestigious degree doesn't matter much.

If you can go to a better school, though, you'd be a fool not to.  Don't point to anectdotes and think that this is a roadmap.  Otherwise, everybody in the country would be going to Texas Tech to be the nation's biggest plaintiff's attorney like Mark Lanier.