Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: jsweeden on May 02, 2012, 03:24:42 PM

Title: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: jsweeden on May 02, 2012, 03:24:42 PM
Been accepted at Cooley and Capital.  Would appreciate any input on where to go…  Thanks
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: HolmesBoy on May 02, 2012, 04:28:53 PM
General employment stats for both schools:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=8

Law related employment stats:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=4

Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 02, 2012, 05:29:11 PM
I admit I don't know too much about Capitol.  But, Cooley's reputation is horrendous.  Cooley is definitely on the top 5 list of places not to go.  Is Capitol?  Probably not.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: jbean29 on May 02, 2012, 07:27:46 PM
I admit I don't know too much about Capitol.  But, Cooley's reputation is horrendous.  Cooley is definitely on the top 5 list of places not to go.  Is Capitol?  Probably not.

What are your other 4?
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Tiery Eyed on May 02, 2012, 09:04:58 PM
Cooley vs. Anything = Anything.   

Without knowing anything about Capital, it isn't Cooley..... so I'd go Capital.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 02, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
The other 4 can vary, Appalachian, FL Coastal, Weidner, Touro are up there.  Anything with high attrition and low employment stats = bad, bad, bad.

Capitol has high attrition, but okay employment stats.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on May 02, 2012, 10:57:13 PM
Someone once told me that Cooley has a bad reputation for having a bad reputation. Some of the criticism is fair, some is unfair. Yes, I know, Cooley has a self-serving ranking system that produces dubious results. I agree, its absurd. I also think USNWR is absurd. Their attrition rate is very high, the result of admitting too many unqualified students. Certainly an argument can be made that it's unethical to matriculate such students, knowin  that they'll likely fail out. As a result of high attrition, however, they have an OK first time Michigan bar pass rate.

The legal education offered at Cooley is not significantly different from what most T3-T4s offer. If it was, they wouldn't be ABA accredited. I think Cooley's reputation has taken on a larger than life aspect at this point, and might not have much of a foundation in reality. Nonetheless, that is Cooley's rep.

I don't know much about Capital, but they have a great bar pass rate in Ohio. If you want to practice in the midwest I'm sure that Capital is fine. If you want to do small firm/solo/government in Michigan, Cooley might be alright too.

No matter where you go, be realistic about your goals and options. Go into law school with your eyes open wide, do as many internships as possible, and make solid connections. I have friends who graduated from well respected schools who are unemployed, and yet I spoke to someone the other day who is about to graduate from La Verne and has a kick-ass job offer. Network and learn to market yourself! 
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: FalconJimmy on May 03, 2012, 06:55:52 PM
Capital
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 04, 2012, 04:40:15 AM
Cooley

"Representatives at three large Tampa area law firms, requesting to speak without attribution, said they have no Cooley graduates and consider it a school that admits just about any applicant."

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/print-edition/2011/10/07/cooley-fights-defamation-as-it.html?page=3

Capital

"The school has been in operation since 1903 - as the Columbus Law School. According to this Avvo rating/profile, Capital Law School has 5,709 total alumni. Of this figure, 1,131 members are inactive. ALSO, AMONG THESE 5,709 GRADUATES, ONLY THREE ARE JUDGES!!! And 153 have apparently received disciplinary sanctions."

"USN&WR lists the average student indebtedness for Class of 2009 Crapital Law grads who incurred law school debt at $98,531."

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/01/ring-in-new-year-with-fourth-tier.html

Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 04, 2012, 09:03:51 AM
^^^ Don't trust any of that.  How do those Capitol numbers compare with say, Akron, which I know is fine.  Is 1,131 inactive out of almost 6,000 normal?  I'm assuming most of those are retires.  Is 153 with disciplinary action normal?  Doesn't seem too many out of 6000.

I'm personally not a big fan of Cooley, but what some fool at some unnamed firm says....come on.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on May 04, 2012, 09:16:40 AM
Inactive alumni doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on the school. People go inactive for lots of reasons then return to the bar later. Considering that the school has been around since 1903, 1131 inactive grads actually seems rather low.

Capital had the highest first time bar pass rate in OH from 2007-2011, surpassing Ohio State, Akron, Cincinnati and others.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 04, 2012, 10:12:26 AM
I'm personally not a big fan of Cooley, but what some fool at some unnamed firm says....come on.

Three representatives from large Tampa firms have never hired, nor intend on hiring, a single Cooley grad.  There are 14 Nalp firms in Tampa.  I don't have time to search them all, but the first 5 have never hired a Cooley grad.  Apparently, their reputation isn't that great in Tampa.  I suspect the same holds true for many of the other states that have Cooley campuses.  In law, reputation is often everything.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 04, 2012, 12:45:28 PM
I agree with the gist, but not the specifics. Do any of those firms hire anyone from out of the top 14? 

Cooley often gets singled out because they are a T4, making it seem its just them that suck, when in fact many schools have hiring issues with the big law firms.  There are countless schools that could be substituted for "Cooley" in this analysis.

I going to Cooley a good idea?  Probably not for most.  FL has several tank schools, not just Cooley.  Ever talked to a FL Coastal grad?
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 04, 2012, 10:15:17 PM
I agree with the gist, but not the specifics. Do any of those firms hire anyone from out of the top 14? 

Cooley often gets singled out because they are a T4, making it seem its just them that suck, when in fact many schools have hiring issues with the big law firms.  There are countless schools that could be substituted for "Cooley" in this analysis.

I going to Cooley a good idea?  Probably not for most.  FL has several tank schools, not just Cooley.  Ever talked to a FL Coastal grad?

I looked at the first firm in the Nalp list - Akerman Senterfittt.  Just a few that I saw where a guy from Florida Coastal in their Jacksonville office, a girl from Stetson in their Tampa office, and most University of Florida Levin grads.

My point is that they're both pretty bad schools, where you'll probably have a 70% chance of either being unemployed or living paycheck to paycheck after graduation.  Retake the LSAT and get into a better school.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 05, 2012, 02:23:26 PM
Here's a nice little comparison done by the law school scam blog:

(source http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2012/05/using-legal-process-to-silence-critics.html )


Graduating class of 2010:

Percentage of graduates who obtained jobs with law firms of more than 25 attorneys:

Cooley: 1.1%
Stanford: 51.1%

Percentage who obtained federal clerkships:

Cooley: 0.0%
Stanford:  29.3%

Percentage who were unemployed nine months after graduation, or whose employment status was unknown:

Cooley:  34.4%
Stanford:  0.6%

Percentage who were employed and reported a salary:

Cooley: 6.5%
Stanford:  88.5%

Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: lawschoolhopeful01 on May 05, 2012, 06:44:20 PM
Cooley is a joke, and Capital isn't much better.  While Capital has a decent reputation in Ohio, it is probably the second worst school in the state (Dayton takes that honor).  My main issue with Capital is their high tuition rate.  I assume you were unable to gain admission to any public law school in Ohio.  Every one of those schools is not only better than Capital but cheaper.  But between the two of them, if you are paying full price, I'd pick Capital. 
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 06, 2012, 10:07:44 AM
Despite the T4 stigma, I've heard good things about Dayton.  They have a decent market in the area-  This is the danger of blanket generalizations, like "best" and "worst".  Given the choice between Capitol and Dayton, I'd pick Dayton.

John, buddy please stop putting me in a position where its necessary to defend Cooley. A comparison with Stanford- are you  f. in kidding me?

I'm not saying Cooley is great.  I'm not saying anyone should ever go there.  I am saying you are not being fair.  Skewing info to cater to a point is just annoying- and unnecessary we all know Cooley sucks.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 06, 2012, 01:57:11 PM
John, buddy please stop putting me in a position where its necessary to defend Cooley. A comparison with Stanford- are you  f. in kidding me?

I'm not saying Cooley is great.  I'm not saying anyone should ever go there.  I am saying you are not being fair.  Skewing info to cater to a point is just annoying- and unnecessary we all know Cooley sucks.

That comparison was ripped right off of another site.  At any rate, I believe it provides an apt comparison, as prospective students may not know how these stats usually pan out at a top school.

Here are some additional comparisons I ran with a couple Tier 2 schools:
(based on http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/ stats)


Graduating class of 2010:

Percentage of graduates who obtained jobs with law firms of more than 25 attorneys:

Cooley: 1.1%
LSU: 11.29%
U of Houston: 21.1%

Percentage who obtained federal clerkships:

Cooley: 0.0%
LSU: 1.17%
U of Houston: 2.5%

Percentage who were unemployed nine months after graduation, or whose employment status was unknown:

Cooley:  34.4%
LSU: 6.8%
U of Houston: 6.3%

Percentage who were employed and reported a salary:

Cooley: 6.5%
LSU: 50.8%
U of Houston: 63.4%
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 06, 2012, 02:25:06 PM
Big law firms and comparisons with Stanford (or why not Yale or Harvard)? You think that is fair?  Most schools would fail these comparison.

USC looks pretty bad compared to Stanford too.  Does USC suck too?  How about BC or Rutgers? They suck too?  They must- Stanford is better.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 06, 2012, 02:32:06 PM
Big law firms and comparisons with Stanford (or why not Yale or Harvard)? You think that is fair?  Most schools would fail these comparison.

USC looks pretty bad compared to Stanford too.  Does USC suck too?  How about BC or Rutgers? They suck too?  They must- Stanford is better.

Did more comparisons while you were posting and Cooley still looks like sh1t compared to T2 schools.  Fair enough?  ;o)
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 06, 2012, 03:54:27 PM
You're kind of missing the point.  Of course its not fair.  But by all means keep posting Cooley comparisons with top 14 and T2 schools only to argue what we all know- Cooley sucks yes, but you're not showing that.

No point to Cooley bashing, especially so badly.  We all know about Cooley.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 06, 2012, 04:16:28 PM
Lets come at this from another angle: Ask the question is Mitt Romney rich?  Well that all depends on who he is compared to.  Is he rich compared to you or me or 99.9999999% of people: yes.  Is he rich compared to Bill Gates?  Is he rich compared to Mark Zuckerburg?

He is rich, but I could distort that by comparing him to the super rich.

What you are doing is the inverse: Is a homeless guy poor?  Yes, but why are you trying to show that by comparing a homeless guy to Bill Gates?
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 06, 2012, 08:12:51 PM
Meh
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: HolmesBoy on May 06, 2012, 09:26:07 PM
A comparison with Stanford- are you  f. in kidding me?


I figured john4040 was drawing a comparison between Cooley's rankings, where it ranks itself #2 nationally, and the U.S. News rankings, where Stanford is ranked #2 nationally.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 06, 2012, 10:06:22 PM
Cooley sucks yes, but you're not showing that.

What an odd post.

And no, some people do not believe that Cooley sucks.  Apparently people still find value in it and are willing to take the risks for god knows what reason.  This thread is proof of that.

The fact that OP is even considering either of these schools as viable options tells me either that (1) s/he doesn't know how bad it really is out there for recent law grads (especially from those two schools); or (1) knows how bad it is, but is batsh1t crazy enough to go.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 07, 2012, 08:00:08 AM
You there OP?  What is happening here?  Who could possibly care about Cooley's internal rankings- I read them for comedic purposes, but ofc I didn't take it seriously.  It actually hurts their case more than anything.

Does anyone, anyone here think the way to put down Cooley is by comparing it to a T14?  Really?

How about the cold employment stats?  How about the attrition rate?  How about alum dissatisfaction?  Bar passage rates? tuition? Grading curves? All, ofc, looked at independently and objectively- not compared to the 3rd most successful school in the country.  Its a weak approach.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 07, 2012, 09:36:11 AM
Does anyone, anyone here think the way to put down Cooley is by comparing it to a T14?  Really?

How about the cold employment stats?  How about the attrition rate?  How about alum dissatisfaction?  Bar passage rates? tuition? Grading curves? All, ofc, looked at independently and objectively- not compared to the 3rd most successful school in the country.  Its a weak approach.

I guess you missed the part where I compared Cooley to two Teir 2s and it still looked horrible?
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: legend on May 07, 2012, 11:02:12 AM
 I am willing to bet nobody with these strong opinions has set foot on the Cooley or Capital campus, and likely has never been to Ohio or Michigan.  Furthermore, you have no idea what the OP wants if they wanted to start a small family practice in a rural county in Ohio what is wrong with either of those schools? If they were trying for Federal Clerkship/Big Law then these school would not be appropriate.  I imagine OP knows Cooley and Captial are not on pace with the T14. 

With that said I would like to attempt to answer OP's original question Cooley over Capitol? First off nobody can actually tell you what is best for you, and anonymous internet posters are certainly not the best source of information. . What law school to attend is a highly personal decision. With that said Cooley does have some suspicious numbers if you look on LSAC for example they graduate 1000 JD's in a small town in Michigan. I am making an assumption, but based on those numbers I think Capitol who graduates only 200 would be better able to cater to their students.

http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Publications/2011OG/aba1099.pdf Capital numbers 194 J.D's awarded last year

Cooley 953 J.D's awarded http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Publications/2011OG/aba1796.pdf

LOCATION
The LSAC numbers favor Capitol without question. There are 200 academic fail-outs at Cooley and about 200 transfers out making for 400 students gone after first year. This can be found in the LSAC attrition rate.  However, these numbers are just one of the many factors to consider in your highly personal decision of what school to attend. For example maybe you have numerous friends, family, etc in Lansing. Being around them for three years will help you through school, and more importantly friends, family, can help you far more in getting a job than whatever school is on your J.D. "I know exceptions exist", but for the most part if your going anywhere outside of the T14 your credentials won't matter as much in finding employment as the people in your life.

The same may be true of Capital if you friends, family, etc in Columbus then it may be the better option.

COST
The cost is about the same Capital is 3k more than Cooley, but both schools are on pace with the normal cost of ABA schools across the country.

CULTURE:
Go to these schools and see what you think. Everybody seems to have such strong feelings about Cooley, but never been there or met anyone. In my law school days I was in a lot of Mock Trial Competitions and low-behold Cooley had teams there and so did Georgetown, Harvard. The few Cooley people I met seemed like good solid people and so did everyone else. I don't what Cooley or Capital's culture is like, but whether you will fit in is again your own personal feeling. 

INTERNET BASHING:
As for the internet bashing about Cooley remember those who know the least know it the loudest.. Their numbers seem a little suspect, but judge the school for yourself. Remember everyone that is posting on this board and others are anonymous posters and people are much more confident saying things anonymously to a computer screen than they are in real life. More importantly I doubt anyone with these strong opinions has been to Cooley. However, I could be 110% wrong in everything I have said, but I have no repercussions so I can really say whatever I want as can anyone else on this board and others. So take my advice and every other anonymous internet poster's advice with a major grain of salt.

CONCLUSION:
Based on the very limited knowledge I have on both of these schools and having absolutely no idea about your specific situation I would say Capital based on them having far fewer students, but remember whatever you decide it will be three years of your life and 100K+ of your money so do what is best for you.

Good luck whatever you decide.





Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on May 07, 2012, 11:31:03 AM
Cooley has a bad rep, no question about it. But comparing Cooley to T2s like LSU and Houston is almost as flawed as the Stanford comparison. Both LSU and Houston have pretty good regional reps and much, much higher admissions criteria. The most accurate comparison would be between Cooley and other T4s in its region: Detroit-Mercy, Valparaiso, Cleveland State, Capital, Toledo, etc. Cooley may place poorly compared to those schools too, but at least you'd be comparing apples to apples.

One of the biggest problems with assessing most law schools is that post-grad employment date is often based on small number of alumni responses. This is especially true among the T3-T4 crowd. Obviously very few Cooley grads are getting hired at firms with 25+ attorneys, but again, is this different from most T3-T4s nationwide?

I'd like to know how many Cooley grads are making a living practicing family law, for example, in solo/small firms in the upper midwest. How many are prosecutors and public defenders? So much emphasis is placed on midlaw/biglaw, that it has become the primary criteria for appraising a school. I don't think that any reasonable person can defend certain aspects of Cooley's reputation (like the abominable attrition rate), but I'm not sure that the criteria by which they're judged is always fair.

Historically, the role of small local law schools (although Cooley's not so small) has been to produce attorneys who will fill non-prestigious but necessary niches: storefront law offices, local public interest, and local government. The fact is, someone has to serve the legal needs of the middle class by handling divorces, bankruptcies, and DUIs affordably. I'd be curious to know how both Capital and Cooley grads fare in those roles. 
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: HolmesBoy on May 07, 2012, 01:46:04 PM
Roald,

The employment stats you are looking for can be found here (the entire ABA list):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=4

It's not quite as specific as you'd like (family law, etc.), but it provides great insight into how schools are doing. It also provides stats for each of the schools you mentioned above.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on May 07, 2012, 02:08:24 PM
Thanks, that's very interesting!

La Verne has better long term long-term employment numbers than Hastings!? I must say, I've always thought that La Verne was a diamond in the rough, but still.

I didn't read the methodology, but I assume this chart represents percentage of grads who obtained long-term employment within a specified period of time (9 months after graduation, 1 year after, etc). Clearly, Cooley ranks near the bottom of this list and the big national schools rank near the top. My point was not to claim that T4 grads (from Cooley or elsewhere) are just as employable as T1 grads, but to challenge the metric by which we tend to define success, ie; biglaw/midlaw. 
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Nova Juris on May 08, 2012, 08:30:00 AM
firms with 25 people or more, so in other words solo practioners don't exist.

thats interesting.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 08, 2012, 10:28:15 AM
firms with 25 people or more, so in other words solo practioners don't exist.

thats interesting.

Federal clerkships?!  So, in other words, state clerkships, ALJ clerkships, specialty court clerkships, shitlaw jobs, etc. don't exist?

People who were unemployed nine months after graduation?!  So, people who were unemployed 1 year after graduation don't exist?

That's interesting.

Look, guy.  The stats are there - I linked to them.  I don't have the time to sit here and post stats all day to appease you.  I've cut and pasted the Stanford/Cooley comparison right off of Professor Paul Campos' website.  I got bitched at because it was a comparison between Cooley (a school that "everyone knows sucks" - but yet, the OP is willing to take a chance on) and one of the top schools in the nation.  So, I crunched the numbers and posted the same stats with Cooley vs. two Tier 2s. Again, I get bitched at - this time, because I could have posted other stats, but I didn't. 

Why don't you stop whining and post your own stats if you don't like what I've posted?  I think the stats speak for themselves.  If you believe that Cooley places better in the solo market, BY ALL MEANS, post the stats.  Someone will then complain that you didn't consider firms with > 300 attorneys, with > 5 attorneys, with > 10 attorneys, with > 2 attorneys.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 08, 2012, 10:39:35 AM
Lol you're having the same conversation with Nova that I felt I was having with you.  T2s? Still unfair. How can you not see that?

Roald, perhaps your explanation can get through.

Compare Cooley to T4s.  Arg.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 08, 2012, 10:43:56 AM
Compare Cooley to T4s.  Arg.

Why?  To determine which school is king of sh1t mountain?  I have no interest in doing that.  Instead, I prefer to show people how a good/decent law school should be placing its students and comparing that to the placements at Cooley (and all T4s, for that matter - it just happened that this thread focused on Cooley and Capital).  If you're interested in finding the king of sh1t mountain, feel free to post the stats.  I'm not sure you'll get much out of it.  A turd is still a turd, no matter how much you polish it.
 
The OP asked for "any input on where to go" and listed Cooley and Capital as potential choices.  My answer is "neither".  Retake the LSAT and get into a better school - one with better employment prospects.

Perhaps this explanation will get through?
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Nova Juris on May 08, 2012, 11:35:30 AM
firms with 25 people or more, so in other words solo practioners don't exist.

thats interesting.

Federal clerkships?!  So, in other words, state clerkships, ALJ clerkships, specialty court clerkships, shitlaw jobs, etc. don't exist?

People who were unemployed nine months after graduation?!  So, people who were unemployed 1 year after graduation don't exist?

That's interesting.

Look, guy.  The stats are there - I linked to them.  I don't have the time to sit here and post stats all day to appease you.  I've cut and pasted the Stanford/Cooley comparison right off of Professor Paul Campos' website.  I got bitched at because it was a comparison between Cooley (a school that "everyone knows sucks" - but yet, the OP is willing to take a chance on) and one of the top schools in the nation.  So, I crunched the numbers and posted the same stats with Cooley vs. two Tier 2s. Again, I get bitched at - this time, because I could have posted other stats, but I didn't. 

Why don't you stop whining and post your own stats if you don't like what I've posted?  I think the stats speak for themselves.  If you believe that Cooley places better in the solo market, BY ALL MEANS, post the stats.  Someone will then complain that you didn't consider firms with > 300 attorneys, with > 5 attorneys, with > 10 attorneys, with > 2 attorneys.

wow, someone has "me" issues.

Wasn't saying anything about you or your precious time (that you clearly have time to post about not having)
Was refering to the way the stats are done.
Thanks for the inner window into your minnd though. Sorry if it made any veins burst.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 08, 2012, 01:25:58 PM
Then say T4s and don't single out Cooley.  You seemed to be distorting the facts- intentionally to make a point. That's not kool.

Ofc, by your analysis the OP should go to Stanford or no where. Looks like his choices are only T4s.  While Cooley is a bad choice hands down, there are T3s and T4s that place well- Maine for example.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 08, 2012, 10:20:38 PM
Then say T4s and don't single out Cooley. . .

I think I can accommodate you with minimal effort.

A list of schools you should not attend:

(Courtesy of http://www.constitutionaldaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1644:employment-scores-the-fracked-fifteen&catid=42:news&Itemid=71)

We've been crunching the Law School Transparency employment data and compiled this list of the Fracked Fifteen, the fifteen law schools with Under-Employment Scores [unemployed, part-time jobs, non-professional jobs, and pursuing another degree] higher than Employment Scores [jobs requiring bar passage, less short-term firm jobs and solo practitioners]:

15. Ave Maria School of Law
Employment Score: 36.9%
Under-Employment Score: 38.1%
Different: -1.2%
Unemployment Rate: 28.6%


14. Thomas M Cooley Law School
Employment Score: 21.7%
Under-Employment Score: 23.1%
Difference: -1.4%
Unemployment Rate: 17.7%


13.Thomas Jefferson School of Law
Employment Score: 19.5%
Under-Employment Score: 22.2%
Difference: -2.7%
Unemployment Rate: 9.5%


12. John Marshall Law School - Atlanta
Employment Score: 24.7%
Under-Employment Score: 28.3%
Difference: -3.6%
Unemployment Rate: 7.8%
 

11. University of Detroit Mercy
Employment Score: 27.8%
Under-Employment Score: 31.8%
Difference: -4.0%
Unemployment Rate: 18%


10. Florida Coastal School of Law
Employment Score: 30.9%
Under-Employment Score: 37.6%
Difference: -6.7%
Unemployment Rate: 7.4%

 
9. University of Toledo
Employment Score: 37.9%
Under-Employment Score: 45.3%
Difference: -7.4%
Unemployment Rate: 8.7%


8. Western New England College of Law
Employment Score: 30.1%
Under-Employment Score: 40.5%
Difference: -10.4%
Unemployment Rate: 17.4%


7. Champan University
Employment Score: 35.1%
Under-Employment Score: 46.8%
Difference: -11.7%
Unemployment Rate: 16.4%


6. Whittier Law School
Employment Score: 18.1%
Under-Employment Score: 31.2%
Difference: -13.1%
Unemployment Rate: 7.2%

 

5. Barry University
Employment Score: 24.4%
Under-Employment Score: 37.6%
Difference: -13.2%
Unemployment Rate: 28.4%


4. University of San Francisco
Employment Score: 40.8%
Under-Employment Score: 55.9%
Difference: -15.1%
Unemployment Rate: 8.4%


3. Golden Gate University
Employment Score: 23%
Under-Employment Score: 42.5%
Difference: -19.5%
Unemployment Rate: 15.5%


2. Florida A&M University
Employment Score: 20.2%
Under-Employment Score: 45.2%
Difference: -25.0%
Unemployment Rate: 26.7%


1. Santa Clara University
Employment Score: 53.1%
Under-Employment Score: 81.3%
Difference: -28.2%
Unemployment Rate: 20.0%
 

There are another 5 schools that comprise a list of dishonorable mention. Their Employment Score is lower than their combined Under-Employment Score and unknown employment status rates. They are: California Western School of Law, Texas Wesleyan, New England School of Law, Liberty University, Capital University. . .
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 09, 2012, 09:42:37 AM
One question: Has law school transparency updated? Last I checked, in 2011 I think, they stopped at 2009.

Also, notice that Cooley isn't on top of this list....ha.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 09, 2012, 10:04:17 AM
One question: Has law school transparency updated? Last I checked, in 2011 I think, they stopped at 2009.

Also, notice that Cooley isn't on top of this list....ha.

Apparently so.  It's got 2010 data.  I honestly never believed that Cooley was the worst school in the country - only that it was one of the many horrible T4s.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: legend on May 09, 2012, 01:25:14 PM
I have to chime in responding to the numbers. I know basically nothing about any of these schools, but in my opinion the individual is far more responsible for finding employment than a school. You can go to Harvard and show up 30 minutes late to an interview your probably not going to get the job. Or you can simply not apply and if you don't apply your not going to get a job. I attended a tier 2 and I focused far more on school, journals, mock trial competitions, etc than finding employment in my third year. I didn't have a job lined up at graduation and the reason was I didn't apply to anything.  That was completely stupid of me and had absolutely nothing to do with my school. I eventually applied and got my career started, but it was not easy and I definitely made numerous mistakes during my job search that were my responsibility, and my school had nothing to do with it.

At everyone of the schools you have listed people have found jobs although many are unemployed, but a school can't force you to apply to a job, it can't force you to be punctual, or do all of the things a law graduate looking for employment needs to do on their own. Maybe these schools truly are awful, but there are multiple graduates from each  school that are working, which makes me think the individual students may have a lot more to do with the numbers than the schools. That is just the opinion of an anonymous internet poster though and maybe your right. 



Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 09, 2012, 01:35:50 PM
I don't think so.  On the whole, job prospects tend to get worse the deeper you go into the law school rankings.  That tends to demonstrate that it is, in fact, the schools, rather than the individuals.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: legend on May 09, 2012, 02:03:56 PM
Again who knows what the answer is, but if look at the "numbers" provided by Holmes in a prior link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=4 Drake & Tulsa place better than Northwestern or Boalt. In reality you can find numbers to favor anything and 60% of the time that is true everytime.    :)

You can't argue that there are people from every single ABA school that have found jobs. I am also not arguing that Tier 4's will open the same doors as a T14, but if you want to be a lawyer and you know really know what your getting yourself into a T4 can work out. No applicant should leave their common sense at the door when making this decision though.  Without question  some paths that will be closed if you attend certain schools. Prestige and so on is highly important in some areas of the law, but not important in others. If OP is counting on a Federal Clerkship followed by Pillsbury, Covington, and White & Case fighting to get him in a contract they will be disappointed.  I would advise anyone counting or wanting that route to retake the LSAT until they get T14 numbers and even then they may not succeed.

If someone wants to do family law in small town then go to law school in the location that works for you. I have no idea what the OP has in mind for themselves, but I think most law school applicants realize the reality of the situation when they attend a T2,T3,T4 school. If they don't that falls far more on them than whatever law school they attend. Again that is just my two cents and whatever happens in the pending lawschool lawsuit could put my philosophy in the minority.

 
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: cerealkiller on May 09, 2012, 02:14:20 PM
On the whole, job prospects tend to get worse the deeper you go into the law school rankings.  That tends to demonstrate that it is, in fact, the schools, rather than the individuals.

A contrarian viewpoint would be that the dismal job prospects faced by graduates of lower-tiered schools are more reflective of the realities of supply and demand than an inadequacy of the schools themselves.

Let's face it: law school is law school is law school. There's only one way to read and interpret Hamer v. Sidway. All American law schools share a similar first-year curriculum. Students can then differentiate themselves by course selection, extracurricular activities, and internships in the second and third years. But even this preparation can take one only so far.

The recession forced corporations to rethink how they spent money on legal services. Some 366 corporations, for instance, refused to pay for legal work done by first and second year associates. This phenomenon caused the hiring freezes, which was soon followed by mass layoffs of experienced associates resulting from the downsizing and/or elimination of legal departments within multinational law firms. Many of the laid-off associates, who had valuable legal experience, landed in mid-law and boutique firms ahead of newly-minted attorneys.

Without casting blame on corporations (Biglaw was, in large part, a victim of its own success), their decision to tighten the belt straps has trickled down throughout the entire legal community with disastrous effect.  This has left lower-tiered students without many viable options in a contracted legal marketplace.

If this "new normal" is here to stay, as it appears to be, then we need to rethink and reorganize legal education in America. Many of the lower-tiered schools are no longer needed because the supply of new graduates each year now far exceeds the demand for their services. Law firms that once were happy to hire graduates from second-tier schools are now able to pluck kids from the upper first-tier without issue.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 09, 2012, 03:02:05 PM
Again who knows what the answer is, but if look at the "numbers" provided by Holmes in a prior link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=4 Drake & Tulsa place better than Northwestern or Boalt. In reality you can find numbers to favor anything and 60% of the time that is true everytime.    :)

Not sure where these stats came from, but I have two points to make with respect to them.  First, it seems as though it's purporting to show "LT employment" - (whatever that is - guessing "long term employment"?).  My bet is that it would include working at McDonald's and Starbucks.  If that's the case, it is altogether likely that a greater percentage of Drake and Tulsa graduates are employed than Northwestern or Boalt graduates.  Second, as with just about everything in life, there will always be a few outliers.  However, that doesn't refute my statement that, on the whole, the further down you go in the rankings, the worse the job prospects.

You can't argue that there are people from every single ABA school that have found jobs.

Trust me.  This is not my argument.

I think most law school applicants realize the reality of the situation when they attend a T2,T3,T4 school.

I think you're mistaken.  I think they know it's bad, however, most either tend to underestimate just how bad it is or assume that they are special snowflakes that will beat the system or transfer.  It's only after 1L or 2L, when they're stuck in the middle of the pack at a T3 or T4, that they start to get that sinking feeling in their stomachs.  By that point in time, they're already swimming in $100K of debt, so, what the hell, why not finish it off and have something to show for it?

It seems like every other day I see a new post on here about how some kid is willing to take on the risk of going to a T3 or T4 with the hopes of transferring up.  I don't even bother commenting on those threads any more.  Good luck cracking the top 10% of your class - the odds are heavily stacked against you and I hope you've made a backup plan to cut your losses in the (90% likely) event that you original plan backfires.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Nova Juris on May 09, 2012, 07:03:27 PM
so according to those stats Cooleys total unemployment stats are LOWER than several of the other law schools? (some look dang near double)
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 09, 2012, 10:56:36 PM
so according to those stats Cooleys total unemployment stats are LOWER than several of the other law schools? (some look dang near double)

Yes.  I'm not sure anyone here was arguing otherwise.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: legend on May 10, 2012, 09:44:54 PM
Again who knows what the answer is, but if look at the "numbers" provided by Holmes in a prior link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=4 Drake & Tulsa place better than Northwestern or Boalt. In reality you can find numbers to favor anything and 60% of the time that is true everytime.    :)

Not sure where these stats came from, but I have two points to make with respect to them.  First, it seems as though it's purporting to show "LT employment" - (whatever that is - guessing "long term employment"?).  My bet is that it would include working at McDonald's and Starbucks.  If that's the case, it is altogether likely that a greater percentage of Drake and Tulsa graduates are employed than Northwestern or Boalt graduates.  Second, as with just about everything in life, there will always be a few outliers.  However, that doesn't refute my statement that, on the whole, the further down you go in the rankings, the worse the job prospects.

You can't argue that there are people from every single ABA school that have found jobs.

Trust me.  This is not my argument.

I think most law school applicants realize the reality of the situation when they attend a T2,T3,T4 school.

I think you're mistaken.  I think they know it's bad, however, most either tend to underestimate just how bad it is or assume that they are special snowflakes that will beat the system or transfer.  It's only after 1L or 2L, when they're stuck in the middle of the pack at a T3 or T4, that they start to get that sinking feeling in their stomachs.  By that point in time, they're already swimming in $100K of debt, so, what the hell, why not finish it off and have something to show for it?

It seems like every other day I see a new post on here about how some kid is willing to take on the risk of going to a T3 or T4 with the hopes of transferring up.  I don't even bother commenting on those threads any more.  Good luck cracking the top 10% of your class - the odds are heavily stacked against you and I hope you've made a backup plan to cut your losses in the (90% likely) event that you original plan backfires.

In response to the numbers Holmes earlier in this thread posted it, but who knows how accurate they are. You also posted some numbers in this thread and who knows how accurate they are.  I think we all realize numbers can easily be manipulated to show whatever you want particularly in the area of employment. If you go to a law school's website the numbers look great.  If you go to JD underground or the site you posted the numbers you look terrible. It is pretty similar to a trial where you have two experts saying completely opposite things based on what agenda they are trying to serve, and nobody knows what the real answer is. However, even without numbers we are able to apply common sense and realize Harvard places better than Cooley.

To my original point I truly believe the individual student plays a much more significant role than they school they attended. At my T2 there were people I would not have trusted to feed my cat yet alone be my attorney, and a few of those people never passed the bar. To further this point I think you should watch a movie called lawyer walks into a bar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Lawyer_Walks_into_a_Bar . There are students from UCLA, LMU (I believe a T2 school, Western State (T4), and a CBA school. It is a documentary of students taking the bar and you see the personalities come out of each person and half of them fail while half pass. After you see the personalities of the individuals and what each person puts in your not surprised by who fails and who passes. The schools they went attended had no affect on their individual personalities. 

So to the OP and all the negativity you see on the internet realize that you play a pretty big factor in how things turn out. There is no sugarcoating it and some doors will be closed if you attend a T2, T3, T4 school and as John points out you should never go to law school expecting to transfer. I already posted on the cost, location, and how you personally feel about the school to be a minimal guidepost in your decision. To anyone considering law school realize people on the internet don't know you, your situation, or what will work for you. You can go to any ABA school and find people that loved their experience and others that hated it. 

Finally Harvard, Yale, Stanford, are good schools that shouldn't surprise anyone and their are firms and positions that will not even look at your resume if you didn't go o a top school. However, there are plenty of places that will bring in for an interview. If your looking for a Federal Clerkship followed by an associate gig at Covington do not go to a T4 school. If your simply after passing the bar, doing family law, etc then a no-name school can work out. However, I could be 100% wrong in everything I have said. I am speaking as one person anonymously on the internet and I have only worked as a lawyer in one state and one city. Truth be told I don't know everything about the state and city I living in, and there certainly cannot speak to how things work South Dakota, Miami, Lansing, or Columbus. I and essentially every internet poster can only speak on their limited experiences and that is why they should all be heavily scrutinized and make the decision that is best for you. It is your life, your money, and your decision use your own personal experiences to decide what is best for you.

Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 11, 2012, 10:10:55 AM
So.....Cooley or Capitol?
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 11, 2012, 10:18:24 AM
So.....Cooley or Capitol?

BOTH, AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!111!
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 11, 2012, 11:37:42 AM
Just go to Stanford OP.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Nova Juris on May 11, 2012, 07:50:33 PM
so according to those stats Cooleys total unemployment stats are LOWER than several of the other law schools? (some look dang near double)
So then why does everyone act like Cooley is the worst of the worst if they have up to double total employment numbers and the stats of their offical attrition rates is lower than a lot of other schools too? Is there name just more well known like how people diss UOP even though other online schools are a billion times worse?

Yes.  I'm not sure anyone here was arguing otherwise.

So then why does cooley get such a bad rap as being the "worst"? When they have double the total employment stats of other schools and far lower attrition rates that many others too?

Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 12, 2012, 12:34:19 AM
So then why does everyone act like Cooley is the worst of the worst if they have up to double total employment numbers and the stats of their offical attrition rates is lower than a lot of other schools too? Is there name just more well known like how people diss UOP even though other online schools are a billion times worse?

It probably doesn't help that they rank themselves second best law school in the nation.

Also, to me, it doesn't matter just how bad Cooley is compared to other bad law schools.  It's bad enough to be in the 4th tier.  I would hope that one would never pick a law school on the basis that it isn't the worst law school in the nation?

As I said in post 34, "a turd is still a turd, no matter how much you polish it".  The same holds true for Cooley.  You can compare it to all of the horrible schools as much as you want, but that doesn't make it any better of a choice.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 12, 2012, 10:09:31 AM
Ever tried to polish a turd? So much fiber is necessary.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Nova Juris on May 12, 2012, 01:01:17 PM
So then why does everyone act like Cooley is the worst of the worst if they have up to double total employment numbers and the stats of their offical attrition rates is lower than a lot of other schools too? Is there name just more well known like how people diss UOP even though other online schools are a billion times worse?

It probably doesn't help that they rank themselves second best law school in the nation.

Also, to me, it doesn't matter just how bad Cooley is compared to other bad law schools.  It's bad enough to be in the 4th tier.  I would hope that one would never pick a law school on the basis that it isn't the worst law school in the nation?

As I said in post 34, "a turd is still a turd, no matter how much you polish it".  The same holds true for Cooley.  You can compare it to all of the horrible schools as much as you want, but that doesn't make it any better of a choice.

yeah ok turds are turds, fine.

The rep is still they are "worst" when that clearly isn't the truth accroding to ABA stats for employment, attrition, and other aspects.
Their rankings might be weird but if they are so wrong then why don't they get busted for "truth in advertising" laws? Seems like an open shut case if they say they are the 2nd best in nation and "everyone knows" that isn't true.

Why dosn't the govt step if and stop if it is such a horrible lie and everyone knows it? Seems odd.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 12, 2012, 01:48:26 PM
Their rankings might be weird but if they are so wrong then why don't they get busted for "truth in advertising" laws? Seems like an open shut case if they say they are the 2nd best in nation and "everyone knows" that isn't true.

Why dosn't the govt step if and stop if it is such a horrible lie and everyone knows it? Seems odd.

There are a few suits out there to "test the waters" with respect to falsification of employment numbers.  Cooley won't get in trouble with respect to its rankings because it publishes its ranking methodology and, thus, it can be seen as an opinion based on hard facts (such as the square footage of its law library).  Further, a recent judgment assumes that all prospective law students are "sophisticated consumers" that are capable of treading through the BS spouted by law schools regardless of how false the information those schools provide may be.

As to your second question:  The government is finally starting to wise up.  We'll see what happens on that end.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 12, 2012, 02:18:55 PM
The government is finally starting to wise up.  We'll see what happens on that end.

-Expand on that.  The Gov in terms of money/loans?  The ABA regulates law schools.  And yes they are maybe wising up. LMU in Knoxville was denied, ofc.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Nova Juris on May 12, 2012, 02:22:56 PM
I am not sure how someone with less than even a BA (or a BA at 2.0) at a 140 LSAT can be "sophisticated"

but if that is what the courts want to tell themselves I guess,
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 12, 2012, 03:04:06 PM
The government is finally starting to wise up.  We'll see what happens on that end.

-Expand on that.  The Gov in terms of money/loans?  The ABA regulates law schools.  And yes they are maybe wising up. LMU in Knoxville was denied, ofc.

Will post tomorrow on it.  Pretty damn late here.  Bout to go to bed.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on May 12, 2012, 03:05:49 PM
I am not sure how someone with less than even a BA (or a BA at 2.0) at a 140 LSAT can be "sophisticated"

but if that is what the courts want to tell themselves I guess,

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/03/22/judge-dismisses-suit-against-new-york-law
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Nova Juris on May 12, 2012, 05:40:26 PM
Thanks for the link. It applies to a NY school, and Cooley aims it's marketing at those with unquestionably lower levels of education and logic ability (low gpa, low lsat, less than a BA,etc)

It seems likes apples to oranges, especially since their ranking system doesn't just talk of employment stats like the NY suit, it makes it claim to be more prestigeous and better overall than the other schools too. Yes most gradstudents can see the opinion in the rankings, but they basicly market them to handicap children who can't think properly for themselves anyways. If they were marketing 170 lsat scorers with 3.75 GPA and Masters in Marketing degrees, then I'd feel different.

They are targeting those who they know will fall for bright colors and flashing lights. AAMPLE just makes it even worse. Just because someone "wants" or even asks for something shouldn't make it legal to give it to them. (volcano insurance in Iowa for the elderly comes to mind as a fair comparison)
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 12, 2012, 07:45:27 PM
You are such an elitist dic.k  I hope you got a 170 LSAT to put down so many people so unabashedly. None of us can think as "properly" as you.  Aren't you the dumbass who called 2/3s of the population morons a few posts back?

I hope the system really works and isn't a system based on complete crap.  Look up the standard deviations for standardized tests- most have an accuracy of prediction of less than %1. And we all know how much you love the %1, wink wink.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: IrrX on May 13, 2012, 12:49:36 AM
Thanks for the link. It applies to a NY school, and Cooley aims it's marketing at those with unquestionably lower levels of education and logic ability (low gpa, low lsat, less than a BA,etc)

It seems likes apples to oranges, especially since their ranking system doesn't just talk of employment stats like the NY suit, it makes it claim to be more prestigeous and better overall than the other schools too. Yes most gradstudents can see the opinion in the rankings, but they basicly market them to handicap children who can't think properly for themselves anyways. If they were marketing 170 lsat scorers with 3.75 GPA and Masters in Marketing degrees, then I'd feel different.

They are targeting those who they know will fall for bright colors and flashing lights. AAMPLE just makes it even worse. Just because someone "wants" or even asks for something shouldn't make it legal to give it to them. (volcano insurance in Iowa for the elderly comes to mind as a fair comparison)

 :-X
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Julie Fern on May 13, 2012, 07:11:52 AM
Thanks for the link. It applies to a NY school, and Cooley aims it's marketing at those with unquestionably lower levels of education and logic ability (low gpa, low lsat, less than a BA,etc)

It seems likes apples to oranges, especially since their ranking system doesn't just talk of employment stats like the NY suit, it makes it claim to be more prestigeous and better overall than the other schools too. Yes most gradstudents can see the opinion in the rankings, but they basicly market them to handicap children who can't think properly for themselves anyways. If they were marketing 170 lsat scorers with 3.75 GPA and Masters in Marketing degrees, then I'd feel different.

They are targeting those who they know will fall for bright colors and flashing lights. AAMPLE just makes it even worse. Just because someone "wants" or even asks for something shouldn't make it legal to give it to them. (volcano insurance in Iowa for the elderly comes to mind as a fair comparison)

 :-X

not be shy.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Nova Juris on May 13, 2012, 06:07:50 PM
You are such an elitist dic.k  I hope you got a 170 LSAT to put down so many people so unabashedly. None of us can think as "properly" as you.  Aren't you the dumbass who called 2/3s of the population morons a few posts back?

I hope the system really works and isn't a system based on complete crap.  Look up the standard deviations for standardized tests- most have an accuracy of prediction of less than %1. And we all know how much you love the %1, wink wink.

less than a third will ever even get a BA. If being in the majority makes you right, then preschoolers and the new PhD since the areas with the largest population growths tend not to even complete what we would consider early elementary.  When in doubt, ask the baby who dosn't like cash back I guess. She must be our new overlord.

As the comment that set you off, how is it "elitest" to say that those who are not educated are not entitled to equal protection as the rest of the general population? If anything taking away their rights is elitest since the ones who benefit are the upperclass who are stealing from the disproportionately lower class who are being fed lies to give them false hope and put them into debt for the rest of their lives. I am saying to allow people legal protection, you are against it and yet I am the elitest. huh.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 13, 2012, 09:16:55 PM
First you put down 2/3s of the population and insinuate anyone who got less than a 170 LSAT is "handicapped".

Now you wish to offer them your protection to make things "equal".

Are you actually basing this on Mien Kompf? Seriously?
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Anti09 on May 23, 2012, 01:06:30 PM
First you put down 2/3s of the population and insinuate anyone who got less than a 170 LSAT is "handicapped".

Now you wish to offer them your protection to make things "equal".

Are you actually basing this on Mien Kompf? Mein Kampf Seriously?

FTFY

Also, you might want to read the book before you ascribe somebody's philosophy as analogous to it. 
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: fortook on May 24, 2012, 12:55:50 PM
I read parts of it only, true.  The comparison is not exact, obviously.  Isn't intended to be- just a general direction.

Never correct spelling again, its crazy lame.  Argue on the merits, not the details.  Yes, I spelled it wrong- So what? Doesn't change anything. 

I don't know what FTFY means.

Are you solicitus, back again?
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: GlenRPierre on June 11, 2012, 11:22:12 PM
Whoa, with those options you might consider one of the online law schools.   I think the quality is improving and the stigma is slowly disappearing.  My wife is going through the process now, and I'm learning a lot along the way. In addition to considering what you want to do long-term, think about the school's reputation in the local community.  They say the legal field is small, and boy does my wife have the stories to support that proposition after working as a biglaw paralegal for 6 years.

If you go the online route, check out Concord, St. Francis, and ALU. 
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: john4040 on June 11, 2012, 11:47:28 PM
Whoa, with those options you might consider one of the online law schools.   I think the quality is improving and the stigma is slowly disappearing.  My wife is going through the process now, and I'm learning a lot along the way. In addition to considering what you want to do long-term, think about the school's reputation in the local community.  They say the legal field is small, and boy does my wife have the stories to support that proposition after working as a biglaw paralegal for 6 years.

If you go the online route, check out Concord, St. Francis, and ALU.

No.  There will always be a stigma attached to online law schools.

Don't go the online route.
Title: Re: Cooley vs Capital
Post by: Anti09 on June 12, 2012, 08:42:54 AM
Whoa, with those options you might consider one of the online law schools.   I think the quality is improving and the stigma is slowly disappearing.  My wife is going through the process now, and I'm learning a lot along the way. In addition to considering what you want to do long-term, think about the school's reputation in the local community.  They say the legal field is small, and boy does my wife have the stories to support that proposition after working as a biglaw paralegal for 6 years.

If you go the online route, check out Concord, St. Francis, and ALU.

Also don't worry if they are accredited cause the ABA is an elitist institution that doesn't recognize true greatness rite guys