Law School Discussion

Law Students => Online Law Schools => Topic started by: USDOJ320 on February 22, 2012, 11:08:09 PM

Title: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: USDOJ320 on February 22, 2012, 11:08:09 PM
I am interested in attending Concord for several reasons to include time and money.  My ultimate goal is to teach college courses and I see that Concord has an EJD as well.  Are either the  JD or EJD acceptable?  Concord is DETC and since it's part of Kaplan, I understand it is regionally accredited as well from what I understand.  Most schools require a regionally accreditied terminal degree such as a Phd or Doctorate.     Any information is appreciated.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: ipscientific on February 23, 2012, 08:57:47 AM
I am interested in attending Concord for several reasons to include time and money.  My ultimate goal is to teach college courses and I see that Concord has an EJD as well.  Are either the  JD or EJD acceptable?  Concord is DETC and since it's part of Kaplan, I understand it is regionally accredited as well from what I understand.  Most schools require a regionally accreditied terminal degree such as a Phd or Doctorate.     Any information is appreciated.


This is a good question. I would contact the school that you want to teach at and ask them.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: sollicitus on February 23, 2012, 12:06:34 PM
If it is regionally accredited it might be worth it. (for sure not if only detc though if your goal is mainstream academia)

I don't know if the major is a good idea though if being a Prof is your goal. What do you want to be a Prof of? If you are looking into teaching law they will want a licensed and seasoned attorney to teach.

Why not looking into a EdD degree of a Phd in a science/math field?
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on February 23, 2012, 06:02:32 PM
Ask yourself, why would would you be qualified to teach anything when all you have is an online degree and who would hire you with no teaching or legal experience?

Additionally, ask yourself how much an online adjunct instructor earns since that would be your only hope.

Psst - An online adjunct gets around $1500 a class.  You will be paying back that student loan for a long time.

EJD - rotfl!  EJD is a vanity degree.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: USDOJ320 on February 23, 2012, 06:19:42 PM
I'd like to teach criminal justice since I am a seasoned federal agent with many years in federal law enforcement.  I figured a master's of higher since that is what most schools are looking for.  I have taught as far a training federal law enforcement, just not in a college setting
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on February 23, 2012, 08:55:19 PM
Masters is the minimum entry point for most adjunct jobs.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: sollicitus on February 24, 2012, 12:39:56 PM
I'd ask your superiors what degrees they have. I'd aim for whatever those are.

Do any of them have the EJD?
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: GlenRPierre on June 11, 2012, 10:53:14 PM
An EJD is the biggest crock of s*** out of Concord yet.  Don't waste your time--employers will probably laugh you out of the room (or not, because they probably won't even call you for an interview with that "degree.")   If you're going online, try to find an online program of a REPUTABLE institution.  Much safer.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on July 08, 2012, 07:37:16 PM
Adjunct work usually does not pay so well, even with a relevant PhD.  Figure $1500 a class online or otherwise to start.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: GovLaw on July 09, 2012, 07:44:23 AM
Besides my "normal" job, I also have served as an adjunct professor in the recent past.  It does not pay well, but I like teaching and it is fun to associate with people just entering the profession.  That being said, I doubt that a EJD will enhance your chances of obtaining an adjunct teaching position, but if you have a law enforcement degree and considerable experience - that will likely be viewed more significantly than a degree which many in academic circles find questionable (the EJD).  Just my experience, YMMV.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: FalconJimmy on July 09, 2012, 08:14:07 AM
I am interested in attending Concord for several reasons to include time and money.  My ultimate goal is to teach college courses and I see that Concord has an EJD as well.  Are either the  JD or EJD acceptable?  Concord is DETC and since it's part of Kaplan, I understand it is regionally accredited as well from what I understand.  Most schools require a regionally accreditied terminal degree such as a Phd or Doctorate.     Any information is appreciated.

Keep in mind that academics is its own little world and you have to know how it works.

You can teach at a junior college with a master's degree, but those jobs are rare.  I have heard from a juco president that if you get a masters in math or english, you can get a job easily.  Other subjects?  You sorta have to be lucky enough to be there when the guy who has the job now dies.

The terminal degree for a teaching credential is a Ph.D. or an Ed.D, or some variant thereof.  A JD is not really considered on-par with those degrees.  People make a grave error when they think that a JD is considered the academic equivalent of a Ph.D.  Yes, you can teach in a college of law... provided you went to a top 14, and preferably to 3 school and made law review. 

The best degree you could get would be a Ph.D. in criminology or something related to the field you want to teach.  A J.D. can teach law.  that's pretty much it.  Every once in a while, a college hires a JD to teach business law, but at most schools, you'd be lucky to see ONE JD in the school of business.  Maybe in the Crim Justice classes, you see a JD here or there, but that brings up the next problem or set of problems.

People who put in the work to do something the right way are generally not receptive to people who take shortcuts and try to get the same benefits.  An online EJD?  Okay, that's a problem.  Put yourself in the shoes of somebody with a JD who makes this hiring decision.  Yes, he might hire somebody with an EJD, but only after those who got real JDs were not available.  As you may have gathered, there is no shortage of JDs in the country.  Plus, a lot of them aren't suited to a career in the law and would love nothing more than a 9 month job with full-time pay and benefits where they teach 4 classes a semester.

You're trying to work a shortcut and it will be seen as such.  Perhaps your other credentials are so impressive they'll overcome a degree that simply screams "lazy and not particularly intelligent", but if that is the case, why get the EJD.

If you want to teach, get a real master's.  An EJD?  I'd think somebody with an online EJD was mentally ill.  why the hell would any sane person get that degree?
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on July 09, 2012, 09:48:41 AM
An EJD is good for nothing, attorneys will laugh at you for wasting time and money on it and no one else has any idea what it is.

You can try a JD but a Masters might be better, lot's of unemployed attorneys out there trying to claim their JD is just as good as PhD and they are qualified to teach everything from political science to history.  The JD however doesn't qualify anyone to teach anything except maybe law.  Also I would not get an online MA, even the online schools don't like to hire online grads as they are concerned about their accreditation.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: oceanblue57 on August 19, 2012, 11:15:53 AM
hi ,i have seen many posts from people like you  down grading any one trying to get ahead through on line education .Have you ever tried it and what schools did you graduate? RON A. BBA-MBA
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: haus on August 19, 2012, 06:18:49 PM
hi ,i have seen many posts from people like you  down grading any one trying to get ahead through on line education .Have you ever tried it and what schools did you graduate? RON A. BBA-MBA

oceanblue57,

Education is an odd thing, especially when it comes to the professional gains one can make from earning a degree. Its value is not solely determined by what you learn as a student, a large part of the value is how your education is perceived by others. I am not saying this is fair, I am just saying that this is how it is.

Online education will eventually come to the field of law in a big way, but it is not here yet. Until such time as the ABA accredits an online program, allowing its graduates to sit for the Bar it is going to remain ugly for online law programs. The increasing acceptance of online education in other fields will help apply pressure to the ABA, but they will hold for some time to come. Already we have major schools that offer degrees to be earned fully or mostly online, including Columbia, Stanford, & Harvard. I myself have earned a Masters degree from the Harvard (specifically a Masters of Liberal Arts in Information Technology from the Extension School at Harvard University). I completed 75% of my course work online.

As someone who is looking at possibly going back to school to earn a JD, I would love to see a reasonable online option to be available. Unfortunately that option does not seem to exist, and is unlikely to exist in the timeframe that I am interested in.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on August 19, 2012, 06:42:55 PM
hi ,i have seen many posts from people like you  down grading any one trying to get ahead through on line education .Have you ever tried it and what schools did you graduate? RON A. BBA-MBA

I graduated from Taft and have been an attorney for many years and I am online faculty at two graduate schools so I know what I am talking about.  When it comes to law, there is really only one online game in the US and those are the California registered distance learning law schools and the odds are at least 5-1 or worse against succeeding.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on August 20, 2012, 10:26:55 AM
hi ,i have seen many posts from people like you  down grading any one trying to get ahead through on line education .Have you ever tried it and what schools did you graduate? RON A. BBA-MBA

Ron:

The OP's original post was asking whether a JD or EJD from Concord would be sufficient to land a college teaching position. He wasn't interested in obtaining the degree for puposes of self-improvement, but had a specific career goal in mind.

The fact is, an online JD (and especially an EJD) is basically useless for 99% of college teaching positions. Teaching positions are ridiculously few and far between, and the competition is brutal. I have several close friends who are academics, and even with PhDs from places like UCLA and U Chicago they spent years teaching part-time, adjunct, etc before landing tenure track positions.

There is a small, newly accredited law school near me whose library I sometimes use. They recently hired a new professor with a BA from Berkeley, JD from Yale, and who clerked for the 10th Circuit. Even at a small school, that's the caliber of applicant the OP would up against. A Concord JD/EJD simply won't cut it. It's nothing against Concord, or people who are trying to improve themselves, it's just that it's a buyer's market for academic positions and colleges can afford to be very, very picky.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on August 20, 2012, 04:46:52 PM
I might add too that while I am online faculty, I also have a PhD from a regionally accredited school.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: cooley3L on August 25, 2012, 11:21:28 AM
I might add too that while I am online faculty, I also have a PhD from a regionally accredited school.
Do you think that is the only reason you were hired?
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on August 25, 2012, 08:02:12 PM
No but without a PhD, it would have been difficult.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: cooley3L on August 29, 2012, 10:14:19 AM
No but without a PhD, it would have been difficult.
Was the Regional PhD done online still? I ask since so many people like to pretend that all online is the same, and that it is not of the same value if Regional but online.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: lawguy2b on September 02, 2012, 12:32:29 PM
As a retired college professor and a former student at Concord, go for the JD Degree.  The bar pass rate is low, but in my experience you get a teaching job networking with a full-time faculty member or recommendation  from a current adjunct.  It is very political and difficult to even obtain an adjunct postion and yes, a Master's dergree is the minimum for teaching.  A degree from an accredited school is a must.  Last year 37% of those who graduated from law school was from an online school.  I have read of all law school graduates-only about 50% have found a job as an attorney-not a bright outlook.  I always liked adjuncts who had several years of work experience with a degree.  I stayed away from those who only went to school, did not have actual work experience.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: cooley3L on September 02, 2012, 03:11:47 PM
As a retired college professor and a former student at Concord, go for the JD Degree.  The bar pass rate is low, but in my experience you get a teaching job networking with a full-time faculty member or recommendation  from a current adjunct.  It is very political and difficult to even obtain an adjunct postion and yes, a Master's dergree is the minimum for teaching.  A degree from an accredited school is a must.  Last year 37% of those who graduated from law school was from an online school.  I have read of all law school graduates-only about 50% have found a job as an attorney-not a bright outlook.  I always liked adjuncts who had several years of work experience with a degree.  I stayed away from those who only went to school, did not have actual work experience.
where do you get the 37% stat?
And How can you put the word "only" in front of 50% (you know that is half right)?
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 03, 2012, 08:19:58 PM
He made it up.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on September 04, 2012, 10:29:25 AM
It is very political and difficult to even obtain an adjunct postion and yes, a Master's dergree is the minimum for teaching.  A degree from an accredited school is a must.

The OP's question was whether a Concord JD (or EJD) is an acceptable doctorate in order to obtain a college teaching position. The short answer is "no way", with a few narrow exceptions.

First, the fact that Concord is regionally accredited doesn't mean much when it comes to teaching law, which is the only field in which someone with a JD could reasonably expect to land a fulltime position. ABA accreditation is the only accreditation that matters in this respect, and Concord's JD is not programmatically accredited by the ABA. It's possible that a Concord JD would permit the holder to teach some online courses, or live courses at an unaccredited school, but that's about all. No ABA or state accredited school is going to hire a online grad as tenure track or adjunct faculty.

Secondly, a JD is not interchangeable with a Ph.D. If a position calls for a doctorate, that usually does not mean a JD (and it never, ever means an EJD). I've met Poly Sci and Econ profs who had a JD in addition to a Ph.D, but never just a JD. Again, a JD holder may be able to score a few adjunct classes, but that's about it. The fact that a college teaching position calls for a regionally accredited doctorate does not mean that any doctorate from any regionally accredited school will suffice. Kaplan (Concord's parent institution) is regionally accredited, but that doesn't mean it's considered on par with other RA universities. In the very competitive world of academic hiring, this matters.

In short, if the OP is considering spending tens of thousands of dollars on a Concord JD/EJD in hopes that this will count as an acceptable doctorate for the purposes of obtaining a professorship, save your money. Alternatively, get a Ph.D from a well known university, publish like crazy, and you may get lucky. There really is no easy shortcut to becoming a professor.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 04, 2012, 06:21:19 PM
Actually I have met faculty at a HBCU that had only a JD and also Community College faculty with just a JD, but not an online JD.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: Sacricolist on September 05, 2012, 08:08:00 AM
Colleges and universities will count the JD (brick and mortar) as a doctoral degree for accreditation and tenure track purposes.  They will grant the JD equivalency for these two issues.  However, if the teaching position requires a doctoral degree the JD is NOT an academic/subject matter substitute.  The doctoral degree expected is usually the PhD.  Sometimes other doctoral degrees are appropriate including the EdD, DBA, DSc, etc.

The JD or other professional doctorates (MD, PsychD, DPT, PharmD, etc.) are usually not considered in the same league unless the person has significant research, career and/or publishing experience.

So when looking to use the JD degree (or any other doctoral degree) to teach in"related fields" it may be darn near impossible to find such a position given the number of people with appropriate credentials in the field who also apply for the same job.

Just my abbreviated two cents.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: Maintain FL 350 on September 05, 2012, 09:52:16 AM
Actually I have met faculty at a HBCU that had only a JD and also Community College faculty with just a JD, but not an online JD.

What is an HBCU? I'm not familiar with the term.

Colleges and universities will count the JD (brick and mortar) as a doctoral degree for accreditation and tenure track purposes.  They will grant the JD equivalency for these two issues.  However, if the teaching position requires a doctoral degree the JD is NOT an academic/subject matter substitute.  The doctoral degree expected is usually the PhD. 

Exactly. If someone can obtain a college teaching position with a J.D. only, then the J.D. will suffice for purposes of tenure. However, the chances of actually obtaining a full time, tenure track position (in fields other than law, of course) with only a J.D. is near zero. A J.D./MBA might be able to land a business/business law position, for example, but that's very rare. The traditionally law-related fields, such as poly sci, history, philosophy and econ will almost invariably require a Ph.D.

I live in the LA area, and even the community colleges here have newly minted Ph.Ds teaching intro courses while they look for full time positions. The competition to get hired at the local universities (even the small, non-elite schools) is insane, and I imagine it's similar in all major metropolitan areas. In any case, even if a college was willing to hire a J.D., I don't think an unaccredited J.D. would suffice. There is just too much competition.
Title: Re: Concord EJD or JD acceptable Doctorate in order to teach college
Post by: legalpractitioner on September 05, 2012, 10:19:32 AM
HBCU: Historically black colleges and universities

I agree, JDs are qualified to teach Legal Studies and not much else.  Criminal Justice, Public Law, Poli Sci, History, Public Administration require theoretical and research backgrounds that a JD alone surely does not provide.  Sure some colleges do hire JD's nonetheless if they have other experience but it is not a good practice.  I have seen JDs teaching Homeland Security courses but they usually have relevant exprience.  An EJD on the other hand is a non starter - a vanity degree at best.