Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Canadian Law Students => Topic started by: justanothersucker on October 22, 2011, 11:22:33 AM

Title: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: justanothersucker on October 22, 2011, 11:22:33 AM
Based on what I can tell Canada dosn't let someone walk about of an American JD program right into practice in Canada. It looks like there is extra schooling required after the transfer up. Knowing that, why would anyone ever(and yet countless numbers do) move down from Canada to America to get a JD with full intent of going back up when done?

Why? Can someone please explain this to me?
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: jabmalassie on October 27, 2011, 01:40:06 PM
Are you a lawyer? Where did you graduate from?
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: justanothersucker on October 31, 2011, 10:29:47 AM
what difference would that make? I'm not Canadian either. WTF is your point?

Are you a lawyer? Where did you graduate from?
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: rhombot on October 31, 2011, 10:49:32 PM
canadian schools have earlier application deadlines. miss them and the US looks like a good options.

also, canadians can practice law in the US on a NAFTA visa.
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: justanothersucker on November 02, 2011, 10:03:58 AM
all good points, my question is about the ones who openly say "I plan to live and work in Canada after I graduate"
If they wanted to live on the border and dayjob it that would make sense. I am talking about the ones who plan to PRACTICE IN CANADA afer graduation.

canadian schools have earlier application deadlines. miss them and the US looks like a good options.

also, canadians can practice law in the US on a NAFTA visa.
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: fortook on November 13, 2011, 08:25:16 PM
They can't get into a Canadian law school.  Why does anyone go to Cooley?  Why do American med students go to Caribbean med schools?  Why do men have nipples (I know the answer to that one)?  Why don't women have beards?
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: artsci10 on January 20, 2012, 10:22:25 AM
You asked why: there are basically two categories of Canadians who do law school in the states:

1) Top-tier - Some students may go to T14 schools thinking it will help there prospects in Canada. This isn't necessarily the case; they still have to go through the NCA process, but many of them do so nonetheless.

2) Back door - Admissions standards are significantly lower in the US than they are in Canada. This isn't to say that the US doesn't have plenty of fine and elite law schools that are hard to get into, but Canada simply does not have anything like 4th-tier schools where just about anyone with an undergrad degree can go. Even the lowest ranked Canadian law schools require about a 160 LSAT and a minimum of 3.4 or so GPA. Plenty of Canadians who can't get into our schools will go down south for a back door into the Canadian law scene. This usually backfires because it's difficult to practice in Canada with a US degree (you need to go through the NCA process which requires extra courses and exams, and is time consuming and expensive) and because it's really frowned upon in the Canadian legal community, so unless your Daddy is a partner on Bay Street, you're pretty much out of luck.

Also worth noting, Canadian law schools cost $10k-15k per year (except Osgoode and U of T, the most elite schools, who charge around $20k per year) so Canadians who go south pay for it big time.
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: LincolnLover on January 21, 2012, 04:37:03 PM
why do you think lawschools cost so much more in America? Is all education cheaper there or just the lawschools?
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: fortook on January 21, 2012, 04:59:38 PM
Education is becoming big biz in the States, sadly.  We even have for profit schools that are owned by corporations.  It's a dangerous situation.

The gov has done the right thing and made loans more available, but so many schools (especially the for profit law schools) have taken advantage of that and ballooned tuition and attendance.  Causing what some call the proliferation of lawyers problem we have now.

Do you remember when Phoenix (the online school, not the law school) got into trouble because they were admitting homeless people using cheap incentives (like food cards), who had no intention of going, for the tuition (which at Phoenix is like 20k per year)?
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: LincolnLover on January 21, 2012, 05:07:59 PM
How would enrolling get the homelsess person a food card? How would it help the school?

Education is becoming big biz in the States, sadly.  We even have for profit schools that are owned by corporations.  It's a dangerous situation.

The gov has done the right thing and made loans more available, but so many schools (especially the for profit law schools) have taken advantage of that and ballooned tuition and attendance.  Causing what some call the proliferation of lawyers problem we have now.

Do you remember when Phoenix (the online school, not the law school) got into trouble because they were admitting homeless people using cheap incentives (like food cards), who had no intention of going, for the tuition (which at Phoenix is like 20k per year)?
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: fortook on January 21, 2012, 05:25:53 PM
Phoenix affiliate, "I'll give you this card if you sign this paper and fill out this form, its ok if you can't read, I'll help you through it."

Homeless person, "Cool, done and done I'm hungry."

Now he is enrolled, the affiliate get the commission, the homeless person gets a sandwich, and Phoenix gets 20k tuition from financial aid.  The homeless guy doesn't have a computer or plan on attending or paying the loan back.  It was a scam- pissed off the feds to no end, justly.  They tightened or reemphasized their requirements after that so at least %70 of grads (or something like that, maybe its %80) has to be in repayment and not default.  Don't you remember the scandal?  It wasn't that long ago and a tea partier's wet dream.  ;)     

No one was trying to help anyone- just get money.
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: LincolnLover on January 21, 2012, 05:32:15 PM
That's nuts. In theory next time they could just do it to the vets since they don't have to pay back GI bill anyways and homeless have a large veteran population.

Phoenix affiliate, "I'll give you this card if you sign this paper and fill out this form, its ok if you can't read, I'll help you through it."

Homeless person, "Cool, done and done I'm hungry."

Now he is enrolled, the affiliate get the commission, the homeless person gets a sandwich, and Phoenix gets 20k tuition from financial aid.  The homeless guy doesn't have a computer or plan on attending or paying the loan back.  It was a scam- pissed off the feds to no end, justly.  They tightened or reemphasized their requirements after that so at least %70 of grads (or something like that, maybe its %80) has to be in repayment and not default.  Don't you remember the scandal?  It wasn't that long ago and a tea partier's wet dream.  ;)     

No one was trying to help anyone- just get money.
Title: Re: Why? Dear God Why?
Post by: artsci10 on January 23, 2012, 05:01:00 PM
Lower cost of education in Canada a result of two simple factors:
1) De facto absence of for-profit universities. There are a couple out west, but its seen as a mark against you if you have a degree from a private university in Canada. Every major Canadian University, including all the ones that have law schools are public.
2) Government funding. Not as big of a factor in law school, but undergrad in Canada is subsidized over 60% by the federal and provincial governments. As a result, tuition at Canada's best school is as low as $5,000/year in BA  or BSc programs (a bit higher in business or engineering).

Canadian view access to education with a different mindset than Americans. There's a mentality of 'if you get the grades, you get to go' and government-funded grants and zero-interest loans make higher education a reality for anyone who deserves it.