Law School Discussion

Law Students => Online Law Schools => Topic started by: InterAlia1961 on August 03, 2011, 09:20:15 AM

Title: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 03, 2011, 09:20:15 AM
I've noticed several discussions here about DL law schools. There are some basic differences, and those attending traditional schools may not be in the best position to answer questions and offer objective opinion. Here are a few of the differences.


Don't let the naysayers stop you from following your dream. There are plenty of people who have graduated from traditional law schools who have been disbarred, arrested, and sued for malpractice. Further, I can attest that I have had the misfortune to cross paths with two of the most inept, unthinking lawyers that have ever walked the Earth, and both were graduates of a traditional brick-and-mortar school. Like Ron White says, you can't fix stupid....not even with a law degree.

 8)
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: Hamilton on August 03, 2011, 09:24:02 AM
Serious question - what is the general per-credit-hour tuition at a DL Law School?
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 03, 2011, 10:26:14 AM
I'm attending Concord Law School. The tuition is just under $10,000 per year. It's a flat rate, not per-credit hour. This is another reason I chose Concord over a traditional school. The cost of law school in Wisconsin is well over $20,000 a year. I'm receiving student loans to pay my tuition and buy books, so I'll have to pay that back. For me, the price was an important factor, not to mention location. Along with my husband, I own and operate an award-winning organic dairy farm in norther Wisconsin. For me to go to law school in Wisconsin, we'd have to sell or rent the farm and move. The closest law school to me is in Madison...6-hours south of our farm.
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: financialandtaxguy on August 04, 2011, 02:12:57 PM
Serious question - what is the general per-credit-hour tuition at a DL Law School?

I strongly suggest you go to the posting that directly links you to the California Bar website and lists all the registered online/distance law schools with their contact information.  The lowest tuition I found was around $2800 per year at Northwestern California University School of Law established in the early 1980's (where I attended for two years), and there is a new online law school, American Institute of Law which is around the same tuition, and then you have a wide range in-between, and I think Concord is the most expensive.
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 04, 2011, 04:24:25 PM
I concur. Concord is the most expensive. Several factors helped influence my decision to attend Concord, not the least of which is the likelihood that Concord will be the first ABA-certified online school. According to a recent discussion with Dean Bracci, the only thing holding up the certification is that the ABA requires the school have a full law library on site. Which really makes no sense when you consider the advances in technology. Concord students have access to Westlaw, Heinlein, Versuslaw, Concord's library, Kaplan University's online library, CALI as well a variety of documents provided by faculty.
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 04, 2011, 04:36:34 PM
I concur. Concord is the most expensive. Several factors helped influence my decision to attend Concord, not the least of which is the likelihood that Concord will be the first ABA-certified online school.

I don't suppose you knew that I own the Brooklyn Bridge and will sell it to you for just $20.
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 04, 2011, 05:38:43 PM
I don't suppose you knew that I own the Brooklyn Bridge and will sell it to you for just $20.

Actually, I own the Brooklyn Bridge. I've been in adverse possession of it for the last 10 years. You're a day late and a dollar short. Thanks for the title, though.  8)
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 04, 2011, 05:40:22 PM
Actually, I own the Brooklyn Bridge. I've been in adverse possession of it for the last 10 years. You're a day late and a dollar short. Thanks for the title, though.  8)

No, I've got the title right... oh damn... never mind.  :)
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: lawstudent#1 on August 07, 2011, 05:53:40 PM
I concur. Concord is the most expensive. Several factors helped influence my decision to attend Concord, not the least of which is the likelihood that Concord will be the first ABA-certified online school. According to a recent discussion with Dean Bracci, the only thing holding up the certification is that the ABA requires the school have a full law library on site. Which really makes no sense when you consider the advances in technology. Concord students have access to Westlaw, Heinlein, Versuslaw, Concord's library, Kaplan University's online library, CALI as well a variety of documents provided by faculty.

You did know that even if they get ABA approval, it won't help its current students or past grads though right?
It is based on what it was when you enrolled, not after you graduated. Sometimes if you are less than halfway through there can be an exception ( I believe) but don't expect to be able to say to a state bar "It's ok because they met the standared latter". -It won't work.

Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 07, 2011, 07:31:10 PM
You did know that even if they get ABA approval, it won't help its current students or past grads though right?
It is based on what it was when you enrolled, not after you graduated. Sometimes if you are less than halfway through there can be an exception ( I believe) but don't expect to be able to say to a state bar "It's ok because they met the standared latter". -It won't work.

I don't know any such thing. Of course, the ABA will do what it will do. I've found that predicting what they might do is like predicting the weather. I've been following the organization for quite some time. My thought is that they are losing their standing as the only agency state bars will listen to for guidance. The times they are a changin.'  You might find this link interesting http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/page/aba-watch (http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/page/aba-watch)
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: barond on August 08, 2011, 01:38:47 PM
I am also not a fan of the ABA, but I respect them for at least having some standards for law schools.  Basically, what Distance Education wants to do is circumvent the modern day process of becoming a lawyer in the U.S.  They lure all these folks who don't want to go the traditional route for whatever reason.  Look, I respect you for not wanting to follow the rules to be a lawyer.  But whatever it is you are doing at Concord Law should not entitle you to  practice law anywhere as far as I am concerned. You will receive an artificial J.D. and can brag to everyone around that milk ranch.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 08, 2011, 03:36:03 PM
  Basically, what Distance Education wants to do is circumvent the modern day process of becoming a lawyer in the U.S.

When I think about this, all I can think is that the Law is a far more unforgiving and hypercompetitive hiring environment than business.

In business, even as muddied as the waters are with MBAs (given that so many are conferred by non-AACSB schools), I can't imagine anybody ever getting anything:  not a promotion, not a job, not extra consideration for a job, based on a correspondence MBA.

An acquaintance is getting some sort of correspondence Ph.D.  (Not through an actual university.)  All i can wonder is, "why?"  Does she think she's going to get a teaching post afterwards?

Sometimes there are shortcuts in life, but there are very few.  Correspondence schools are undoubtedly better due to modern technology, but they're still no substitute for a real university. 

I doubt many people with these correspondence degrees are very happy that they got them.
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 09, 2011, 05:50:14 PM
A couple of pertinent points raised here: 1) Education is market-driven. Even though your imaginations and prejudices may not allow you to make such a connection, the fact is the new paradigm in education is digital and commercial. Those individuals and associations who can't keep up will be left behind. One of my Concord classmates is holds a doctoral degree in education. She teaches at 3 universities which deliver some or all of their programs online. She is married to an Orlando-area prosecutor who encouraged her to take the JD program to meet the requirements necessary to become a lobbyist in Florida--you have to have a JD. No one cares if it comes from an ABA-approved school or not. If it doesn't matter to the State of Florida, why should it matter to you? She and her husband simply want to lobby for education. 2) While you may be limited by your imagination, thankfully others are open to change. No longer are we limited in our education choices based on race, gender, religion, or age. However, until now, some of us have been limited by location. Now, here we are in the 21st century, where lectures can be delivered instantly, where we can collaborate in an instant, where we can explore as fast as the speed of broadband, and the miracle of digital delivery propels us towards educational opportunities that would have been impossible before. It's unfortunate you can only imagine success within the comfines of your own experience. I promise you, the possibilities are endless and much, much closer than you think. 8)

And it's a farm not a ranch. There is no such thing as a milk ranch.  ::)
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 09, 2011, 07:51:29 PM
At this point, there's really nothing I can say that won't come across as insulting or condescending to you.  So, I'll leave it at this:  best of luck to you. 
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: Curse on August 10, 2011, 12:49:58 AM
At this point, there's really nothing I can say that won't come across as insulting or condescending to you.  So, I'll leave it at this:  best of luck to you.

About time!

Times change, and also technology changes the medium of instruction. Everyone has trouble accepting change, as has been apparent with your posts in this particular section of the forums, but change happens and does not stop.

I for one appreciate your concern with distance education, for I have them myself, but I feel that you crossed the line from just being concern to being nothing more than an internet bully expelling on other people’s questions, and trying to suppress their dreams. You have nothing encouraging to say in this forum designed to help those working adults that wish to fulfill their dreams, so there is really no reason for you to post. I pity you, because you are pathetic in your quest to devaluate the responses of those people that want nothing more than to share information to those that want answers.

Please do not bother responding to my post in an effort to further feed your trolling, I have no interest.

Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 10, 2011, 02:32:59 AM
Times change, and also technology changes the medium of instruction. Everyone has trouble accepting change, as has been apparent with your posts in this particular section of the forums, but change happens and does not stop.

Oh for god's sake.  now, really here folks.  This is the 2nd post that's trying to harp on this "change" and "technology" drum.  Not to mention that my viewpoint is based on "prejudice" and the inability to accept technological change.

I'm not sure what your "distance learning" schools are telling you, but they're not the only schools using technology.

ABA Law schools are using technology.  Every school is using technology.  High schools and junior colleges are using technology.

"Traditional" schools aren't at a disadvantage to distance-learning in the use of technology.  It's a tool in their bag.  This isn't a question of:

"You can chose a traditional school which uses no technology, or you can chose a distance school that uses innovative technology."

Be serious, folks.  The reality is that you can chose a traditional school that involves a classroom experience AND technology, or you can chose a distance learning school that uses just electronic distance learning methods.

This isn't A or B.  It's "A+B" or "just B".  "Traditional" schools aren't the ones with limited tools.  They're using them all. 

It's the distance learning schools that are only using a limited set of teaching tools.

As for the rest, I guess I am just getting a hard lesson in why the regulars don't comment on this part of the board.   

Best of luck with your studies.  I hope you find what you're looking for. 

You can ascribe my perspective to mean-spiritedness, prejudice and resistance to change if it makes you feel better.  That's one way to look at it.

However, from the other perspective, the speed with which this whole thing devolved into, "you're just prejudiced, don't understand change and are just a biggo meanie trying to crush our dreams" tells me that there really isn't much discussion that's possible on this topic.
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 10, 2011, 07:57:00 PM
Does someone need a hug, FalconJimmy? C'mon....****HUG**** Hey, even big meanies have feelings.  :-*

And don't worry, there have been naysayers at every junction of Mankind's giant leaps. It won't float. It won't fly. It won't transmit. It won't transmit in color. It won't get out of the atmosphere. It will burn up on re-entry. There is no vaccine for Polio. No one will want a personal computer. And yet, here we are.

Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: GovLaw on August 11, 2011, 09:50:27 AM
I wanted to add some information, which may be useful or which may just serve to muddy the waters.  I am an upper manager for state government, and part of my position is to oversee the licensing and certification of certain professionals in the state (not attorneys, but positions which require a Master’s degree).  My position is, according to statute, given authority to administer this activity, overseen by a State Certification Board which meets three times a year.  We consult loosely with other states, to keep required qualifications and CE roughly similar.

In this capacity we not only accept distance education, we encourage it.  We accept a diploma from a regionally or nationally accredited distance education program in exactly the same fashion as we accept a brick and mortar institution.  If it is a university we are not familiar with we certainly WILL check to make sure they are accredited by an accrediting organization recognized by the US Department of Education. 

My final point - in this state it is accepted that a legitimate distance degree will be recognized in most fields, the notable exception being law.  I feel that the field of law will eventually be forced to accept distance learning degrees, and accredit these schools.  The ABA needs to realize that hiding its collective head in the sand won’t make this problem go away, and that they need to wake up and address this issue in a reasonable fashion – before the Supreme Court of some state forces them to do so.

Just my .02 – feel free to disagree, but I likely won’t come back on and debate the issue.

Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: lawstudent#1 on August 11, 2011, 10:49:14 AM
I wanted to add some information, which may be useful or which may just serve to muddy the waters.  I am an upper manager for state government, and part of my position is to oversee the licensing and certification of certain professionals in the state (not attorneys, but positions which require a Master’s degree).  My position is, according to statute, given authority to administer this activity, overseen by a State Certification Board which meets three times a year.  We consult loosely with other states, to keep required qualifications and CE roughly similar.

In this capacity we not only accept distance education, we encourage it.  We accept a diploma from a regionally or nationally accredited distance education program in exactly the same fashion as we accept a brick and mortar institution.  If it is a university we are not familiar with we certainly WILL check to make sure they are accredited by an accrediting organization recognized by the US Department of Education. 

My final point - in this state it is accepted that a legitimate distance degree will be recognized in most fields, the notable exception being law.  I feel that the field of law will eventually be forced to accept distance learning degrees, and accredit these schools.  The ABA needs to realize that hiding its collective head in the sand won’t make this problem go away, and that they need to wake up and address this issue in a reasonable fashion – before the Supreme Court of some state forces them to do so.

Just my .02 – feel free to disagree, but I likely won’t come back on and debate the issue.

Military has been accepting DETC as promotion points and ways to be an officer for decades now. If it's good enough to trust someone with being in command of nuclear sub, kind of says a lot dosn't it?
Title: Re: 5 Differences Between DL Law Schools and Traditional Schools
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 11, 2011, 03:14:38 PM
Does someone need a hug, FalconJimmy? C'mon....****HUG**** Hey, even big meanies have feelings.  :-*

And don't worry, there have been naysayers at every junction of Mankind's giant leaps. It won't float. It won't fly. It won't transmit. It won't transmit in color. It won't get out of the atmosphere. It will burn up on re-entry. There is no vaccine for Polio. No one will want a personal computer. And yet, here we are.

Hahaha!  Interalia, I like your style.