Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: smartandunique on August 31, 2010, 03:49:14 PM

Title: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: smartandunique on August 31, 2010, 03:49:14 PM
Hi everybody-does anyone know about the Masters of Jurisprudence degree? If I don't get accepted to a law school I'd like to attend, I was considering this degree.I know a lot of people attend law school for a JD but have no desire to be a lawyer and that's who this degree is marketed at,per the admissions staff.I'd like to be a legal aid attorney but if I couldn't attend law school I'd still like to work for the goverment.
What's your opinions? Thanks
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on August 31, 2010, 11:36:43 PM
I don't know much about it, but if you want to be a lawyer then you should try everything you can to go to law school. If that doesn't work out and you really want to work in the field you could get a paralegal certificate. Or if you really wanted to make some money get a B.S. in some technological field that would qualify you to take the patent bar and then you could be a lawyer without going to law school.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: smartandunique on September 01, 2010, 04:54:34 AM
Thanks-I'm really aiming for law school but I wanted a back up plan.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: Hamilton on September 01, 2010, 07:54:21 AM
I am down on law school and echo sentiments that I have seen others post - unless you go to a T1, get a great scholarship, or truly have your heart set on being a lawyer, I think law school is a terrible investment.  Law school is not even a ticket to stability - forget wealth.  In fact, with a huge loan, law school could be a one-way ticket to financial ruin.  Record numbers of JDs are being produced and the job market is not expanding. 

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not attacking non-T1s, I am stating the reality that they are going to have a much harder time landing work because of the pecking order within the legal community.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 01, 2010, 08:48:33 AM
Yes that is somewhat correct, but that is true of any form of education. The world is getting more and more competitive, law school is outrageously priced, but you can make it up. You need to realize that education is a LONG TERM investment odds are if you go to a tier 3/4 you may start out making only 50k, which when faced with a 100k loan accruing interest seems sh***y. However, if you are a halfway competent attorney in a few years you will be more experienced and be paid more generally.

That is the same with any education I have said this before, you could go straight from high school to working at a bank or grocery store and have no educational debt and if your working 40 hours a week, you will have way more money than anyone that is going to college those first four years and generally even a few years after graduation. Odds are your first job in any profession is going to suck a little bit, of course there are exceptions, but you generally have to start at the bottom and work your way up. However, if you get a M.D., M.B.A., J.D. whatever it may be you can more experience and grow. You cannot really grow passed cashier that is the end, so that is the reason for going to school in any capacity. Is there a risk that is might not work out absolutely, but that is life.

In regards to these perceptions of schools they again apply to every single profession. A computer science major from San Jose State will not have the same doors open to them as a Stanford grad. That is the way it is, in time maybe the San Jose State guy will make more money or even be a better programmer, but I wouldn't bet on the San Jose State guy having a better career than the Stanford Grad. However, if the San Jose State guy likes computer programing odds are he will get a job in the field and if that is what he wanted to do it should work out.

Bottom line education is a risk and yes Harvard/Stanford will open more doors than Timbucktu State.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: Sheshe on September 01, 2010, 09:55:50 AM
Yes that is somewhat correct, but that is true of any form of education. The world is getting more and more competitive, law school is outrageously priced, but you can make it up. You need to realize that education is a LONG TERM investment odds are if you go to a tier 3/4 you may start out making only 50k, which when faced with a 100k loan accruing interest seems sh***y. However, if you are a halfway competent attorney in a few years you will be more experienced and be paid more generally.

That is the same with any education I have said this before, you could go straight from high school to working at a bank or grocery store and have no educational debt and if your working 40 hours a week, you will have way more money than anyone that is going to college those first four years and generally even a few years after graduation. Odds are your first job in any profession is going to suck a little bit, of course there are exceptions, but you generally have to start at the bottom and work your way up. However, if you get a M.D., M.B.A., J.D. whatever it may be you can more experience and grow. You cannot really grow passed cashier that is the end, so that is the reason for going to school in any capacity. Is there a risk that is might not work out absolutely, but that is life.

In regards to these perceptions of schools they again apply to every single profession. A computer science major from San Jose State will not have the same doors open to them as a Stanford grad. That is the way it is, in time maybe the San Jose State guy will make more money or even be a better programmer, but I wouldn't bet on the San Jose State guy having a better career than the Stanford Grad. However, if the San Jose State guy likes computer programing odds are he will get a job in the field and if that is what he wanted to do it should work out.

Bottom line education is a risk and yes Harvard/Stanford will open more doors than Timbucktu State.

No offense BIGS, but if a computer science grad went into nearly as much debt as most law school grads, then I'd feel like you'd have a better argument. Its a lot easier to swallow making $50,000 a year when you don't have 6 figure debt weighing you down.  Those loan payments don't wait until you've "grown " in your profession and are making more money. Having to work a few years for a salary that will not allow you to comfortably service student loans is a legitimate concern for most law school students.  For this reason, Going to a bottom tier school where you're employment prospects will be lower, and if you manage to land a job you'll likely be working for peanuts, is simply not a wise decision for most ppl. When I look at some of your posts I sometimes get the feeling that you see the world through rose tinted lenses.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: Sheshe on September 01, 2010, 09:58:21 AM
My sincere apologies to the OP for not quite staying on topic  ;)
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 01, 2010, 10:45:53 AM
Many undergrads  require you to go into as much debt. Often times it takes 5 years to get a bachelor's in computer science for example, that is 2 years of lost income not to mention that undergrad tuition is quite high. I know the majority of people in law school had their parent's pay for everything in undergrad so they don't realize the expense of it, but it is approximately the same amount as law school debt when you consider the time.  I do agree law school is outrageously priced and it makes no sense at any school how they charge that much, but the law school tuition is not a hidden secret, it is readily available and you assume the risk when you enroll.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: smartandunique on September 01, 2010, 11:15:06 AM
I need a JD to practice law. It would be a nice to have a fancy degree and I agree it would make me more marketable but at the end of the day I need a legal education to get me where I want to be. I'm not interested in BIG Law or clerking. Besides being poor isn't really a new condition for me.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 01, 2010, 11:29:01 AM
Exactly, but believe it or not there are people so naive particularly in law school that they believe they are entitled to some kind of special treatment for sittng through 3 years of classes.  When they have to actually do work and not have things handed to them it blows their mind, and instead of actually putting forth any work to help themselves out they will go on to websites like this and complain about how unfair everything is.

As you said being poor is not a new condition to a lot of people, but if you enroll in law school you will notice an absurb amount of ridiculosy spoiled people who have no clue about dealing with sh**. There are plenty of people that are hard-working etc, but I would say 20-25% of people I have encountered in law school have never worked a day in their life, and just complain when everything gets moderatly difficult in law school. Law school is the easy part, being a lawyer is 100x harder.


It sounds like you have the right attidue, and if you want to practice law go to law school. End of story, U.S. News Ranking etc is b.s. for the most part and believe it or not any ABA school will teach you the law. Negligence, Consideration, RAP, etc all have the same rules whether you learn them at Harvard or Cooley.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: Hamilton on September 01, 2010, 12:22:20 PM
Thats great, if that is the dream, by all means go for it.  I do not know what your situation is, all I am saying is go in with all of the facts, think long and hard about where you are going to school, what your REAL job prospects are (do not rely on the law school's employment and salaty stats, they are pure BS), and how much debt you are going to take on.  As an example, a private Tier 3/4 will cost you at least $100K with no scholarships - you would have to be nuts to take on that debt right now in this job market.  Not wanting to be rich sounds good right now, but you need to be able to eat and pay bills (and student loans).  Believe it or not, you WILL want an improved lifestyle. 

I need a JD to practice law. It would be a nice to have a fancy degree and I agree it would make me more marketable but at the end of the day I need a legal education to get me where I want to be. I'm not interested in BIG Law or clerking. Besides being poor isn't really a new condition for me.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 01, 2010, 12:48:18 PM
Yes the debt is an issue, but believe it or not it is a GLOBAL recession and jobs are and will always be hard to come by in any field. If you know of some degree that is free or dirt cheap and will guarantee me a sweet high paying job let me know. The thing that most law student's do not seem to grasp is that the legal field is as hard as anything else out there. Also in regards to the legal market and everything in general education is a LONG-TERM investment the economy goes up and goes down it is the way it is has been since the start of America. This not the first recession in American history and it will not be the last, the beauty with having  a J.D. is that although no the market is not great it will bounce back and be good again. Same logic applies to anything.

As an example my Dad is an aerospace enginner he specialized in building missles etc for Boeing. When the cold war ended military funding dropped tons of people were laid off and he was extremly lucky to keep his job. Boeing, Rockewell, all these companies were not seeking out new enginners for a few years, but war came up again and now it is a great field to be in. In he real world no matter what field you are in there will be ups and downs that is the way it is and always will be.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: Hamilton on September 01, 2010, 04:32:48 PM
Your "run of the mill" Masters degree is less expensive than a JD, so is a MBA.  Nobody says that anything in life is guaranteed, but right now law school is an even worse risk for many.  A JD is EXTRA debt with ZERO odd increase of finding work, perhaps WORSE odds if you focus the effort on working in law.  The recession will end - probably in 8 years or so (we have not seen the worst and it is not ending soon).  In the mean time loans need to get paid back - hard to do with no job.  I doubt the legal market will come back to the levels it was before the recession.

Would you pay twice as much for a lottery ticket if it did not have a bigger jackpot or better odds at winning?  Right now a JD is the same deal - pay extra for the degree with no improvement in odds or payout.

Yes the debt is an issue, but believe it or not it is a GLOBAL recession and jobs are and will always be hard to come by in any field. If you know of some degree that is free or dirt cheap and will guarantee me a sweet high paying job let me know.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 01, 2010, 05:36:37 PM
There are law firms that are hiring believe it or not. I just got a job through my tier 4's OCI paying me an outrageous amount of money this summer,(enough to pay off the third year of law school entirely), which is a salary I never expected to get when I enrolled at GGU.  Granted I am highly ranked at my school and am one of the few people who got a job through OCI. However, a lot of people did not even apply to one job for OCI and we had about 60 employers come. I am sure 60 employers  is a minuscule number compared to a lot of schools, but 60 firms were desperate enough for people to come to a lowly tier 4, which goes to show firms, government agencies etc are hiring.  Crazy as it may sound law firms are still in business and even need lawyers to operate. So there are jobs in the legal market and getting a J.D. will help you get a job as a lawyer.  In fact you have a 0% chance of getting a job as a lawyer unless you go to law school. The whole system has not been destroyed, but there have been better times to go to law school.

The bottom line of everything is that if you want to be a lawyer go to law school, if you want to be a teacher get a teaching credential, if you want to be a cop go to the police academy, a doctor med school. The list goes on and on and no matter what you do people will say don't do this don't do that, but you know what you only have one life and you might as well go into the career you want. Obviously, use some common sense, but believe it or not law school has a lot better odds of returning it's investment than the lottery does. Even if you never make it if you really enjoy the law and don't make money at least your in a career you like. Honestly, education is a risk, but a calculated one and unless you get a degree in religious studies or basket weaving there are jobs for any degree. However, jobs always have and always will be hard to find no matter what you do.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: smartandunique on September 01, 2010, 07:07:04 PM
U GO bigs5068 !
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: the white rabbit on September 02, 2010, 02:45:16 AM
Yes that is somewhat correct, but that is true of any form of education. The world is getting more and more competitive, law school is outrageously priced, but you can make it up. You need to realize that education is a LONG TERM investment odds are if you go to a tier 3/4 you may start out making only 50k, which when faced with a 100k loan accruing interest seems sh***y. However, if you are a halfway competent attorney in a few years you will be more experienced and be paid more generally.

Sometimes I feel like I just go around this board disagreeing with bigs, but somebody's got to do it.

Thinking of 50k a year as a worst case scenario is horribly wrong.  You may start out making nothing.

Plenty of people who are competent but just didn't get their foot in the door end up working contract attorney jobs (doc review) where regardless of number of years of experience, you get paid the same amount and have few opportunities for professional advancement.

Bigs paints an entirely too rosy picture of things.

Yes the debt is an issue, but believe it or not it is a GLOBAL recession and jobs are and will always be hard to come by in any field.

The problems with employment for graduates of lower-tiered law schools existed long before the current recession.  Even during the boom, it was an uphill battle.

It sounds like you have the right attidue, and if you want to practice law go to law school.

This is like saying, "if you want to fly go ahead and jump out that window."  OP, I'm not saying DON'T go to law school.  Just think through whether or not it's a smart decision.  Even if you're competent and hard-working and know what it is to struggle, that doesn't make handling a massive debt load on minimal income any easier to handle.  Bigs is correct to an extent that the problems with law school costs are shared with all types of education.  That's because it's a problem for all types of education, not because it's not a problem anywhere.  Law school is probably just the worst example.

In terms of your actual question about the Master of Jurisprudence, I've never heard of it being of practical use anywhere.  I would look into the JD only, and pursue it if after collecting all necessary information, it makes sense from every angle.

Good luck.  :)
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: Hamilton on September 02, 2010, 05:40:08 AM
I think we are in nearly 100% agreement - we just see it differently.  You think it is a worthwhile risk.  Having done it and looking back, I dont think it is for most (i.e. those paying full price, at a T3/4, not in the top 10% of their class, and not with a burning desire to be a lawyer).

Honestly, education is a risk, but a calculated one and unless you get a degree in religious studies or basket weaving there are jobs for any degree. However, jobs always have and always will be hard to find no matter what you do.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 02, 2010, 08:30:57 AM
Maybe you will make less than 50k, maybe you will never get a job as a lawyer. I don't think anyone that goes to a tier 3/4 expects anything to be handed to them or certainly should not.  When I went to a no name state school for undergrad I didn't think anything would be handed to me. Yet I have always found jobs, because I work at it and bust my ass and that is what you have to do.  I am not a natural genius by any stretch of the imagination.  I wish I could have gotten a LSAT score like you did and gone to a top 10 law school. Honestly, I could have studied for 20 years and probably never broken a 160. You have the gift of being able to do that and that is awesome.  However, the majority of people in the world can't get into a top 10 school for anything. 

People of your ilk who go to a top 10 school and give advice to people like me or the OP on the risks of attending a tier 4 are basically out of line. I realize you would never have attended a tier 4, because you must have killed the LSAT. That is awesome and good for you, I imagine you probably killed the SAT as well. With the logic your using it would be like telling anyone that took the SAT and didn't get into at least some chump ivy league school like Brown for undergrad they should be relegated to McDonald's. That just won't work, I mean not everybody can or even does expect Big Law or Judicial clerkships when they go to law school. Those are not the only jobs available in fact the majority of legal jobs are not Big Law or Judicial clerkships PD's, DA's, small firms, mid-size firms, etc are the majority of people use. I realize Big Law etc were your expectations and you achieved them, which is awesome. Honestly, everybody who goes to a tier 3/4 or a no name undergrad, or no name dental school etc knows they are not going to Harvard. However, these schools are not awful horrendous place that people who have never set foot or even considered such a school like yourself make them out to be.

All I have ever tried to say to people is listen to people with first hand experience at a school. Those are the people you want to listen to, and I like my school. It is not Stanford or Harvard by a long shot. There are problems with it for sure, but so far it has done everything and more than I expected. From what I have seen so far granted I am only a 2L and maybe I will be in for a rude awakening is that the legal field is like anything else. If you work hard, are respectful to people, and just do the basic things you are supposed to do it will probably work out. Will there be struggles of course, and there is a chance you may never make it of course. I am still in debt and it is scary, but I feel I made the right choice. Bottom line tier 3/4's are not going to have people drooling over you and I hope that is a newsflash. However, as I said before if you want to be a lawyer go to law school.


Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: Hamilton on September 02, 2010, 09:14:36 AM
YOU get it, a lot of people dont.  There are a lot of folks out there going to law school b/c it might be interesting or seems like the thing to do - those are the folks I am speaking to.  As I said before (stinkypants just wasn't cutting it as an alias) I am a T4 grad.  There are huge risks, lots of downside, and not great job prospects for the T3/4 grads - unfortunately some folks DONT get it, spend $100K on a JD, finish low in the class and are then basically screwed.  The law schools wont advise them to reconsider - heck, they keep building MORE law schools and need to fill the seats - thereby screwing more students.  You and I do not disagree - we all get it that thare are no promises in any field or that law school is not an easy ticket to work.  Unfortunately, that is the dream being sold by law schools and there are just folks out there lacking the maturity or appreciation to understand the down side.  I was there, one gets blinded by the prospects of being a law student and finishing law school - Looking back I wish I had quit after first term but I finished near the top of my class.

The troubles in the legal market are not only the result of a global recession - it is a bubble and the bubble has burst... just like tech stocks, just like real estate, just like financials, and just like gold soon will.

People of your ilk who go to a top 10 school and give advice to people like me or the OP on the risks of attending a tier 4 are basically out of line. I realize you would never have attended a tier 4, because you must have killed the LSAT. That is awesome and good for you, I imagine you probably killed the SAT as well. With the logic your using it would be like telling anyone that took the SAT and didn't get into at least some chump ivy league school like Brown for undergrad they should be relegated to McDonald's. That just won't work, I mean not everybody can or even does expect Big Law or Judicial clerkships when they go to law school. Those are not the only jobs available in fact the majority of legal jobs are not Big Law or Judicial clerkships PD's, DA's, small firms, mid-size firms, etc are the majority of people use. I realize Big Law etc were your expectations and you achieved them, which is awesome. Honestly, everybody who goes to a tier 3/4 or a no name undergrad, or no name dental school etc knows they are not going to Harvard. However, these schools are not awful horrendous place that people who have never set foot or even considered such a school like yourself make them out to be.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: the white rabbit on September 03, 2010, 04:00:56 AM
So it's kind of like this:

Bigs and White Rabbit are walking across a bridge over a gorge when they see Smartandunique standing on the railing with a bungie cord tied to her waist.

Smartandunique: "Should I jump?"
Bigs: "You should if you want to!  It'll be awesome!"
White Rabbit: "That looks dangerous.  Are you sure you measured the cord properly?"
Bigs: "People of your ilk who have never gone bungie jumping are out of line giving advice!"
White Rabit: "Um, huh?"
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: smartandunique on September 03, 2010, 08:05:20 AM
I don't think thats a fair analogy. I think the point is don't let others define success for you. some people r t14 or bust because they assume people have the sames goal as them. Yes I want to earn a nice salary but I don't need a designer degree to do so. Yes it'll be harder to land a job interview but not impossible. I think bigs point is to be realistic.
I appreciate both of ur opinions.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 03, 2010, 08:16:24 AM
No I am not saying it will be awesome tier 4's are amazing and all your dreams will come true. If you can get into a top 10 school GO!!! by all means you would be stupid not to. I have made this analogy before in that Kobe Bryant can't give Luke Walton advice on how to negotiate his contract, anybody would rather have Kobe Bryant's basketball talent and contract opposed to Luke Walton's.  However, not everybody can be Kobe Bryant in fact 99% of extremely talented basketball players are not even close to his level. He would tell Luke or even me you can't play for less than 20 million that's crazy. I would say no dude I will pay for 50 bucks to be on the Lakers. Me and Luke Walton do not have the same expectations as Kobe Bryant, but Luke Walton is not living a miserable life by any means.

Well a Harvard Law Grad have more options than me? Hmm, lets think of course. As I said my school had 60 people come for OCI, which is probably 1/10 of what Harvard has. However, that is 60 places that are hiring not to mention you can and should look for jobs outside of OCI.  I realize you probably had a cakewalk to getting a job and that is awesome. However, you are in a way different situation. Again, I pose the question what would you do if you got a 155 on the LSAT and you could not do any better. Honestly, what would you do? It is pretty easy to say tier 1's are great, and yea that is not news to anybody, but the reason these schools are great is because most people cannot get into them even if they try their hardest. Most people about 99% of the world cannot get into Harvard, Yale, or Stanford for any degree.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: the white rabbit on September 04, 2010, 06:25:31 AM
I don't think thats a fair analogy. I think the point is don't let others define success for you. some people r t14 or bust because they assume people have the sames goal as them. Yes I want to earn a nice salary but I don't need a designer degree to do so. Yes it'll be harder to land a job interview but not impossible. I think bigs point is to be realistic.

Just because you shouldn't let other people define success for you doesn't mean that there aren't certain outcomes that are not, objectively speaking, failures.  In the case of bungie jumping, if you've miscalculated and you hit the bottom of that gorge at full speed, that's failure.  If after school you are $200k in debt and unemployed, that's failure (and I'm not saying this is what happens automatically when you go to T3/T4, but it's something that happens to people sometimes).  My goal isn't to say, "you shouldn't got to law school unloess you're likely to get biglaw"; it's to point out that in general, the outcomes that result from law school are far less positive than conventional (lay) wisdom tells us that they are.

And I don't mean to be a downer here, or to repeat the T10 or bust theme.  For the record, I have friends who went to T3/4 and did pretty well for themselves, and I have friends who went to T10 schools who ended up doing poorly for themselves.  So it's not just school ranking that matters.  Still, best to go in with eyes wide open.

Good luck.  :)
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 04, 2010, 11:07:32 AM
Okay so we basically said the same thing. I agree if you go 200k in debt, and do not get a job in that field it is a failure. If you go to a top 10 school your chances of going into an exorbitant amount of debt, and not getting a job are much lower than someone who goes to a tier 4 school. However, neither one is a guarantee and a lot of success in the law or any profession is up to the individual. Going to a top 10 school will not result in automatic success, but the likelihood of succeeding is much higher. On the same token going to a tier 4 does not mean your legal career is doomed, but the odds of you succeeding are significantly lower than someone at a top 10 school. So bottom line is top 10 schools open more doors, but tier 4's are not these awful places where nobody ever succeeds. I would say around 60-70% of tier 4 grads do alright after graduation, which is not an atrocious number by any means when compared to other types of education i.e. bachelor degrees, art school, master's programs etc. While, I would estimate that 90-95% of top 10 graduates succeed right after graduation. I made those numbers out of thin air, but I think they portray an accurate estimate.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: the white rabbit on September 08, 2010, 03:09:27 AM
I made those numbers out of thin air, but I think they portray an accurate estimate.

That last part is where we disagree.  That's not to say I think it's 0% of tier 4 grads and 100% of top 10 grads, since I know for a fact that that's not true.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 08, 2010, 09:23:57 AM
Again we said the same thing. I think nobody in their right mind would say a Tier 4 opens the same doors as a Tier 1. The ranking of a school makes a difference, but a tier 4 will provide you with an education and you can get a job. I think anyone who goes to a tier 4 knows or at least should know nothing is going to be handed to them. Th same applies to tier 2's and 3's. I still cannot understand why people give up full scholarships at GGU to go o Santa Clara or USF it makes no sense to me, but that is another topic. Anyways, my point was and always has been that tier 4's are not these cesspools of education where professors are doing lines of coke and nobody is learning anything. In San Francisco I know for a fact  schools have a lot of the same professors. I worked with a lot of people from Hastings this summer and out of the 6 professors we had 1st year 3 were the same. Literally same text book and same professor for Contracts, Torts, and Civ Pro Hastings is Tier 1 I think and we are tier 4, but identical educations from the same book and professor. Why wouldn't the professors do that the schools are a mile apart and take two seconds to get to on MUNI so why wouldn't the professors just double their money.  Tier 1 schools have a better name though and if you have a choice between a top school or a tier 4 go to a top school. If tier 2,3,4 is what you end up doing and you want to be a lawyer then know you are going to have to work extra hard, but it can and is done.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: the white rabbit on September 09, 2010, 03:44:38 AM
Again we said the same thing.

We just disagree on the number.  I think your 60-70% is high.
Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: bigs5068 on September 09, 2010, 10:55:26 AM
There is no way to pinpoint the number until LSAC demands actually salary information from every school from Harvard to Cooley.  The b.s. way they report employment statistics where an unpaid internship counts leaves people like me and you to simply guess at the number.  My school's ABA info says 84.9% are employed, but I highly doubt that all 84.9% of people are "employed" in the way you would expect to be i.e. a job where you earn money in the legal field. Hastings a tier 1 has a 84.1% employment rate. However, do those numbers actually mean anything without salary information. NO. Anybody can get a job doing "something" and I really think they need more detailed information for every school opposed to the very vague numbers they give. Granted it is way better statistics than any other type of education gives, as far as I know undergraduate schools are not required to keep any kind of tabs, same as art schools, MBA's etc. 

Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: rebeca14 on September 10, 2010, 06:03:43 AM
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Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: rebeca14 on September 10, 2010, 06:05:15 AM
I need a JD to practice law. It would be a nice to have a fancy degree and I agree it would make me more marketable but at the end of the day I need a legal education to get me where I want to be. I'm not interested in BIG Law or clerking. Besides being poor isn't really a new condition for me.
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Title: Re: Master of Jurisprudence
Post by: smartandunique on September 10, 2010, 08:29:32 AM
thanks