Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: cooleylawstudent on May 02, 2010, 10:22:40 PM

Title: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 02, 2010, 10:22:40 PM
 8)  add your reasons why you love your school.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 03, 2010, 08:03:56 PM
I honestly do love the fact that they have their own rankings. I think it is an awesome slap in the face to the U.S. News ranking which literally has as much merit as Cooley's system does.  In fact Cooley's actually is a better formula, because at least they do use objective standards even if it is the amount of chairs a school has at least that is measurable. 
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: Ninja1 on May 07, 2010, 11:20:18 AM
I honestly do love the fact that they have their own rankings. I think it is an awesome slap in the face to the U.S. News ranking which literally has as much merit as Cooley's system does.  In fact Cooley's actually is a better formula, because at least they do use objective standards even if it is the amount of chairs a school has at least that is measurable. 

This fails at all levels.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 07, 2010, 01:11:43 PM
Why Cooley like U.S. News out of nowhere decided to come up with ranking system. It is identical neither ranking system was required or even approved by anybody they both just a system up out of thin air. I know Cooley might be a little biased on it's face since it is Cooley's ranking, but honestly you think these "Peers" are not biased as well? They went to law schools and I am sure are favorable to certain schools.

Me and you can make a ranking system right now
(Schools that have students that post on LSD make up 80% of a schools ranking)
(average daily temperature of city school is located in 18%)
(we will bring a little objectivity into the rankings also so like U.S. News amazing formula we will put in that moderatly important aspect of bar passage 2% just like U.S. News

FSU and GGU we both post on here and Florida and California are hot. I think FSU has a better passage rate so I will be content with ranking
FSU #1 of all schools
GGU #2 of all schools

That is a pretty good formula it has much merit as Cooley's or U.S. New's Nobody asked me to come up with and I made it up, but it works right.

Both systems are a complete joke they make absolutley no sense.

Are Harvard and Yale better schools than GGU??????? Ummmm YES! I knew that when I was 5.  Is Williamette better than FIU? Who f'ing knows they are both law schools. 

Honestly if you came to San Francisco with a degree from Florida State you would probably have a hard time finding employment and if I went to Miami or Jacksonville I would have a hard time finding employment, despite the fact that FSU is ranked higher.  You are going to end up in Florida and I am going to end up in California.  Obviously, there will be some exceptions, but at the end of the day number 62 or 93 doesn't matter.

It's like someone playing basketball at University of Wyoming and transferring to Univeristy of Idaho their sophomore year because Wyoming went to 72 or Idaho moved up 56. It wouldn't matter freaking matter. If the guy from Wyoming could transfer to Duke then yes that is another story, but who the hell cares whether someone plays at Idaho or Wyoming the player will be good at basketball.

Who cares if you go to law school at Gonzaga or Texas Wesleyan? You will know the law and you were smart enough and worked hard enough to get into law school and pass the bar. Obvioulsy Harvard or Stanford will open more doors, but why the hell does anybody waste their time ranking between 72 and 98????? It makes no sense particularly on a HORRENDOUS FORMULA that doesn't measure anything it literally has as much merit as the ranking system I just made up.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 07, 2010, 04:00:59 PM
name them.

I honestly do love the fact that they have their own rankings. I think it is an awesome slap in the face to the U.S. News ranking which literally has as much merit as Cooley's system does.  In fact Cooley's actually is a better formula, because at least they do use objective standards even if it is the amount of chairs a school has at least that is measurable. 

This fails at all levels.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 08, 2010, 04:43:27 AM
Why Cooley like U.S. News out of nowhere decided to come up with ranking system. It is identical neither ranking system was required or even approved by anybody they both just a system up out of thin air. I know Cooley might be a little biased on it's face since it is Cooley's ranking, but honestly you think these "Peers" are not biased as well? They went to law schools and I am sure are favorable to certain schools.

Me and you can make a ranking system right now
(Schools that have students that post on LSD make up 80% of a schools ranking)
(average daily temperature of city school is located in 18%)
(we will bring a little objectivity into the rankings also so like U.S. News amazing formula we will put in that moderatly important aspect of bar passage 2% just like U.S. News

FSU and GGU we both post on here and Florida and California are hot. I think FSU has a better passage rate so I will be content with ranking
FSU #1 of all schools
GGU #2 of all schools

That is a pretty good formula it has much merit as Cooley's or U.S. New's Nobody asked me to come up with and I made it up, but it works right.

Both systems are a complete joke they make absolutley no sense.

Are Harvard and Yale better schools than GGU??????? Ummmm YES! I knew that when I was 5.  Is Williamette better than FIU? Who f'ing knows they are both law schools. 

Honestly if you came to San Francisco with a degree from Florida State you would probably have a hard time finding employment and if I went to Miami or Jacksonville I would have a hard time finding employment, despite the fact that FSU is ranked higher.  You are going to end up in Florida and I am going to end up in California.  Obviously, there will be some exceptions, but at the end of the day number 62 or 93 doesn't matter.

It's like someone playing basketball at University of Wyoming and transferring to Univeristy of Idaho their sophomore year because Wyoming went to 72 or Idaho moved up 56. It wouldn't matter freaking matter. If the guy from Wyoming could transfer to Duke then yes that is another story, but who the hell cares whether someone plays at Idaho or Wyoming the player will be good at basketball.

Who cares if you go to law school at Gonzaga or Texas Wesleyan? You will know the law and you were smart enough and worked hard enough to get into law school and pass the bar. Obvioulsy Harvard or Stanford will open more doors, but why the hell does anybody waste their time ranking between 72 and 98????? It makes no sense particularly on a HORRENDOUS FORMULA that doesn't measure anything it literally has as much merit as the ranking system I just made up.

Bigs would you be willing to listen to an alternative suggestion that addresses most of your objections to USNews (most of which are quite valid) but doesn't throw out their rankings altogether?
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 08, 2010, 10:10:03 AM
Yea do it like the NCAA and rank the top 25 make it honor to be listed not a requirement. I think if are deciding between Penn and NYU then the rankings might matter. Just like if you are a college basketball player and you are choosing between North Carolina and Duke the ranking would matter.

The NCAA doesn't rank out of the top 25 because it didn't matter. Would you be shocked if San Jose State beat UC Irvine in basketball? If San Jose State was ranked 92 and Irvine was ranked 109 I imagine not. Would be shocked if San Jose State beat Duke yes.  So rank the top 25 law schools and no more.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 08, 2010, 01:36:59 PM
gotta make sure to include #12 then! ;)

Yea do it like the NCAA and rank the top 25 make it honor to be listed not a requirement. I think if are deciding between Penn and NYU then the rankings might matter. Just like if you are a college basketball player and you are choosing between North Carolina and Duke the ranking would matter.

The NCAA doesn't rank out of the top 25 because it didn't matter. Would you be shocked if San Jose State beat UC Irvine in basketball? If San Jose State was ranked 92 and Irvine was ranked 109 I imagine not. Would be shocked if San Jose State beat Duke yes.  So rank the top 25 law schools and no more.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 09, 2010, 07:23:18 AM
Yea do it like the NCAA and rank the top 25 make it honor to be listed not a requirement. I think if are deciding between Penn and NYU then the rankings might matter. Just like if you are a college basketball player and you are choosing between North Carolina and Duke the ranking would matter.

The NCAA doesn't rank out of the top 25 because it didn't matter. Would you be shocked if San Jose State beat UC Irvine in basketball? If San Jose State was ranked 92 and Irvine was ranked 109 I imagine not. Would be shocked if San Jose State beat Duke yes.  So rank the top 25 law schools and no more.

Hmmm.  Are you saying that you think that there's some validity to the USNews top 25 rankings?  Because you make it sound like they're completely worthless.

How about regional rankings below the top 25, using opinions and peer assessments from within the region?
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 09, 2010, 11:54:10 PM
The rankings are obviously somewhat accurate yes Harvard is better than GGU they got it right! I already knew that the sky is blue maybe someone should pay me for that statement.

The rankings are not worthless I just think outside out of the elite schools they are. Like the example of a football player transferring from San Jose State to Florida International University because FIU was 68th in the nation and San Jose State was 92. At either school you are going to play football and you tackle people, lift weights, run, play games, have coaches etc. If the player wanted to be in San Jose from reason he should football at San Jose if the guy wanted to live in Miami he should play at FIU.  The rankings of 68 and 92 are irrelevant the guy will be good at football, but not an elite athlete that got recruited by USC or something.

Just like at any law school you are going to read, get called on, take exams.  At Santa Clara or Hofstra you will do those exact things. If the person wants to live in San Jose go to Santa Clara if they want to live in Long Island go to Hofstra if Santa Clara is 72 and Hofstra is 92.  Now if the person gets into Yale then f'it go to New Haven that will open unlimited doors.  The difference between Santa Clara and Hofstra though doesn't really matter.

Regional rankings they might matter, but even then they screw people I know 3 people that transferred from GGU to USF and Santa Clara technically higher ranked, but they are working with their people from their 1L section from GGU. They lost scholarship money they could have kept had they stayed at GGU.  Santa Clara and USF got them the same places that GGU got the transfers, except the people at GGU have less debt.  The transfers can say they graduted from the 88th best school instead of the 111th, but at the end of the day who cares. If you transferred into Stanford or Berkley then yea do it, but even regionally the rankings are pretty irrelevant. 


Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 11, 2010, 07:44:38 PM
The rankings are not worthless I just think outside out of the elite schools they are.

Okay so you agree that they probably have meaning for say the top 25 schools, but they're kind of silly once you get below the top [whatever].  So we're actually on the same page to a large extent.

I would say that regional rankings would be less harmful than national rankings for people misunderstanding relative values of degrees though.  People might think that going from 128 to 88 is a big jump, but are less likely to think that going from the #4 school in an area to the #3 school in the area is a good investment.  Just my thoughts on that.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 11, 2010, 09:19:01 PM
so next year when cooley is listed as #1, you plan to transfer right?

The rankings are not worthless I just think outside out of the elite schools they are.

Okay so you agree that they probably have meaning for say the top 25 schools, but they're kind of silly once you get below the top [whatever].  So we're actually on the same page to a large extent.

I would say that regional rankings would be less harmful than national rankings for people misunderstanding relative values of degrees though.  People might think that going from 128 to 88 is a big jump, but are less likely to think that going from the #4 school in an area to the #3 school in the area is a good investment.  Just my thoughts on that.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 14, 2010, 04:15:55 AM
so next year when cooley is listed as #1, you plan to transfer right?

No, but only because I'm not in law school anymore.  ;)
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cvtheis on May 14, 2010, 06:04:16 AM
Sorry - I have not followed long.  Are you practicing now?

so next year when cooley is listed as #1, you plan to transfer right?

No, but only because I'm not in law school anymore.  ;)
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 14, 2010, 04:49:46 PM
She just means that she plans to be able to attend the cooley LLM is all.  ;)
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 16, 2010, 06:22:52 AM
Sorry - I have not followed long.  Are you practicing now?

so next year when cooley is listed as #1, you plan to transfer right?

No, but only because I'm not in law school anymore.  ;)

Practicing is such a funny way of putting it.  I have a job as a lawyer.  :)

She just means that she plans to be able to attend the cooley LLM is all.  ;)

It's unlikely I'd move to Michigan for a year.  I like warm weather.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 16, 2010, 11:56:18 AM
Don't worry about that, Cooley expands on a near annual basis, we'll be in every state in the union soon enough.(and if you think that I'm jokeing wait awhile)
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 16, 2010, 01:33:28 PM
Don't worry about that, Cooley expands on a near annual basis, we'll be in every state in the union soon enough.(and if you think that I'm jokeing wait awhile)

Excellent.  Tell your school to devote some of that famous library square footage to something that opens out onto the beach.  Then we can talk.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 16, 2010, 01:38:47 PM
We're surrounded by beaches, Largest fresh water seas in the world.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 16, 2010, 01:43:59 PM
We're surrounded by beaches, Largest fresh water seas in the world.

How long's the drive to any of them?
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 18, 2010, 10:34:00 AM
The rankings are obviously somewhat accurate yes Harvard is better than GGU they got it right! I already knew that the sky is blue maybe someone should pay me for that statement.

The rankings are not worthless I just think outside out of the elite schools they are. Like the example of a football player transferring from San Jose State to Florida International University because FIU was 68th in the nation and San Jose State was 92. At either school you are going to play football and you tackle people, lift weights, run, play games, have coaches etc. If the player wanted to be in San Jose from reason he should football at San Jose if the guy wanted to live in Miami he should play at FIU.  The rankings of 68 and 92 are irrelevant the guy will be good at football, but not an elite athlete that got recruited by USC or something.

Just like at any law school you are going to read, get called on, take exams.  At Santa Clara or Hofstra you will do those exact things. If the person wants to live in San Jose go to Santa Clara if they want to live in Long Island go to Hofstra if Santa Clara is 72 and Hofstra is 92.  Now if the person gets into Yale then f'it go to New Haven that will open unlimited doors.  The difference between Santa Clara and Hofstra though doesn't really matter.

Regional rankings they might matter, but even then they screw people I know 3 people that transferred from GGU to USF and Santa Clara technically higher ranked, but they are working with their people from their 1L section from GGU. They lost scholarship money they could have kept had they stayed at GGU.  Santa Clara and USF got them the same places that GGU got the transfers, except the people at GGU have less debt.  The transfers can say they graduted from the 88th best school instead of the 111th, but at the end of the day who cares. If you transferred into Stanford or Berkley then yea do it, but even regionally the rankings are pretty irrelevant.

Fact is Pepperdine is a highly rated undergrad and a not so highly rated law school.  That could have been any of the top schools.  Not everyone is aware of who the top 10 -20 law schools are until they start researching law school options, and that is why Harvard and NYU and UVa etc have to be ranked.  It's not "sky is blue" type information.  You are really grossly generalizing to the point you make it seem unimportant what the top schools are.

The problem becomes when everyone wants their school to have the same impact and sex appeal as when people say the word Harvard (and there are 9 other top notch law schools, why do you always use Harvard?).  And the Ivy Leagues in general is instantly known worldwide (even Cornell).  There are people from backgrounds other than yours that do need to have some sense of the law school pecking order (at the top) because it matters to the biglaw recruiters and to any other firm or agency that can manage to get a top law school's graduate.

And the further one goes down the the USNews list, the lower the middle 50% GPA range gets.  That is obviously a major basis for the rankings, and gives people a pretty good idea of where they should be aiming with the exception of having uncommon softs.  Someone with a 147 and half a brain should be able to gather from US News that they do not have a significant chance of getting into Vanderbilt.  Which is not Harvard but is certainly not a low-LSAT law school.  Prior to looking at the rankings they easily might not know that because they might not have even heard of Vanderbilt before.

What the rankings won't tell them that they need to do further research and find out, is where Vanderbilt graduates tend to place.  And that would not be New York.

People simply need to do a lot of cross-referencing and not rely on one source for all their answers.  If some of these folks I see on the net (speaking in general here) are so terrible with research and due diligence into their own fates...why should the public bring them any business and let them help determine its fate?  I can understand that schools put out misleading salary info, but in the age of Salary.com, Careerbuilder.com, and the jobs section of Craigslist and LinkedIn, it's very alarming that people who should have learned basic research and objective skepticism in science classes from primary through tertiary can't cross-reference what the school's brochure said with the going rate any given minute that you run a search for associates and attorneys with 0-2 years experience.  In any state.

Hell they can go on careerbuilder and sort the search for lawyer or attorney by state to see which state needs them most these days, among other sorting tools.

The schools shouldn't have to tell people to do this. They spend half their lives online and only waste their lives on it instead of making it work for them. 
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 18, 2010, 02:03:44 PM
Yea Vanderbilt is a good school and any school from the Ivy League will open more doors than GGU.  Yes people should do research, entering law school is a scary experience 100K and 3 years of time and I see people talking out of their a** about tier 4's and that they kick out half the class and nobody ever gets a job and that is just not the case.  Nobody has been kicked out of my section yet and the reason for high attrition is transfers, which I understand if you can transfer to Stanford or Hastings it will open more doors than GGU. Santa Clara and USF really won't open that many more doors and it is certainly not worth passing up scholarship money to go to those schools over GGU that is just my opinion. 

Everybody wants different things out of law school and I never denied a pecking order exists, but at the end of the day is up to the individual student to get a job, pass the bar etc. Yes it will be easier for a Stanford or Hastings grad to find a job than me I knew that going in. Rankings do matter in Big Law and to be a judge etc. I was fairly certain that I was not going to sit on the Supreme Court when I decided to go to GGU. Just like I was pretty sure i was not going to the NBA when I signed my scholarship to play basketball for Chico State. However, from Chico State basketball I got a job as a pro-basketball player as did many of my teammates. None of us went to the NBA, but a lot of us ended up being paid to play or coach basketball. I compare that to my experience at a tier 4 it has gotten me internship offers at mid-size firms that pay me to do legal work. Far from outstanding money, but I want to be a lawyer and I went to law school. I was not even offered an interview for any Big-Law or Judicial Clerkships and I expected that going in. I hope to work as a lawyer in S.F. and GGU is more than capable of helping me accomplish that goal if I put the work in. If my sole goal was to graduate with 100k job lined up or be the next Supreme Court Justice then I would be disappointed, because odds are really against me with a degree from GGU for that. However, it is more than capable of getting me a job as an attorney in the Bay Area and hell I might have to do contract work at graduation I accepted that when I went in. 

So all I am really trying to say is that GGU or any tier 3/4 will not ruin your life and if you want to be a lawyer and put the work in it will probably work out, but there are certainly better schools and if you are going to law school to get rich don't go to a tier 4.  If I had a 170 LSAT and 4.0 GPA I would not have gone to GGU and I had been 7'3 I would not have played basketball at Chico State. However, I am not a genius and I am not 7'3 so I had to use the cards I was dealt and make the most of it and this far I have.

Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 18, 2010, 06:36:52 PM
Yeah but how many  of them are so awsome that they take 4 towns to fill? 8)
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 18, 2010, 08:37:11 PM
I honestly do love the fact that they have their own rankings. I think it is an awesome slap in the face to the U.S. News ranking which literally has as much merit as Cooley's system does.  In fact Cooley's actually is a better formula, because at least they do use objective standards even if it is the amount of chairs a school has at least that is measurable.

Personally, I feel it would have been a slap in the face if Cooley's acceptance rate was not so high and the average LSAT score being 149 and the average UGPA being 2.9. I could have gotten into Cooley's law school straight out of High School.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 18, 2010, 08:57:58 PM
yeah........THAT's how it works.........fetus.

I honestly do love the fact that they have their own rankings. I think it is an awesome slap in the face to the U.S. News ranking which literally has as much merit as Cooley's system does.  In fact Cooley's actually is a better formula, because at least they do use objective standards even if it is the amount of chairs a school has at least that is measurable.

Personally, I feel it would have been a slap in the face if Cooley's acceptance rate was not so high and the average LSAT score being 149 and the average UGPA being 2.9. I could have gotten into Cooley's law school straight out of High School.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 18, 2010, 09:21:53 PM
When those numbers were pointed out that your school was sub-standard and not in the top 50, how did you take it? Don't over embellish such a low-ranked school and act as though you are better than me. From what I can see, you aren't, as you had no other options outside of Cooley. To further illustrate this point, if a school in the top 30 had admitted you to their program you would have immediately went to one of them. Of course being a soldier is great and all, but you are clearly thinking about your future as a lawyer, and a free ride at a top-30 law school would have been great and you would have taken it. Your school is being paid for by the service you did for your country. However, you didn't cut it for one of the top 30. In conclusion, please stop using "fetus" to insult me as it is something you should not do as I do not deserve such putrid insults against me.

P.S. that is your school's statistics. That is how it works unfortunately.

http://www.cooley.edu/prospective/requirements.html

/done
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 18, 2010, 10:17:34 PM
if I lived in my parents basement and sucked on daddys tit yeah. When your done guzzling it, we'll talk.

When those numbers were pointed out that your school was sub-standard and not in the top 50, how did you take it? Don't over embellish such a low-ranked school and act as though you are better than me. From what I can see, you aren't, as you had no other options outside of Cooley. To further illustrate this point, if a school in the top 30 had admitted you to their program you would have immediately went to one of them. Of course being a soldier is great and all, but you are clearly thinking about your future as a lawyer, and a free ride at a top-30 law school would have been great and you would have taken it. Your school is being paid for by the service you did for your country. However, you didn't cut it for one of the top 30. In conclusion, please stop using "fetus" to insult me as it is something you should not do as I do not deserve such putrid insults against me.

P.S. that is your school's statistics. That is how it works unfortunately.

http://www.cooley.edu/prospective/requirements.html

/done
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 18, 2010, 11:01:00 PM
Oh my god 2.9 and a 149 could not be done out of high school that just shows how f'ing ignorant you are. Believe it or not the majority of undergraduates do not get 2.9's a lot of people actually struggle through undergrad if you get 150 you did better than 50% of the population with a bachelor's degree who were ambitious enough to go to law school.  Getting into any ABA school is a difficult and you can't get out of high school. You are probably really academically inclined good for you that doesn't mean that someone who goes to Cooley is an idiot.

I bet you can't dunk a basketball and I can. So your obviously 400 pounds overweight and ready to die of a heart attack, because I can dunk a basketball and you can't. I am sure you are fine physically in reality and you know what not everyone can get a 170 on their LSAT and not everyone can dunk a basketball. Getting a 150 on your LSAT does not mean your an idiot believe or not a lot of people are not capable of doing it.  Shut your damn mouth and get a clue about real life and stop telling yourself your better for doing well on a multiple choice test.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 19, 2010, 09:02:37 AM
he didnt even take the test yet, he just expects to do good on it.

Oh my god 2.9 and a 149 could not be done out of high school that just shows how f'ing ignorant you are. Believe it or not the majority of undergraduates do not get 2.9's a lot of people actually struggle through undergrad if you get 150 you did better than 50% of the population with a bachelor's degree who were ambitious enough to go to law school.  Getting into any ABA school is a difficult and you can't get out of high school. You are probably really academically inclined good for you that doesn't mean that someone who goes to Cooley is an idiot.

I bet you can't dunk a basketball and I can. So your obviously 400 pounds overweight and ready to die of a heart attack, because I can dunk a basketball and you can't. I am sure you are fine physically in reality and you know what not everyone can get a 170 on their LSAT and not everyone can dunk a basketball. Getting a 150 on your LSAT does not mean your an idiot believe or not a lot of people are not capable of doing it.  Shut your damn mouth and get a clue about real life and stop telling yourself your better for doing well on a multiple choice test.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: Mr. Hart on May 21, 2010, 12:04:05 PM
Yes people should do research, entering law school is a scary experience 100K and 3 years of time and I see people talking out of their a** about tier 4's and that they kick out half the class and nobody ever gets a job and that is just not the case.  Nobody has been kicked out of my section yet and the reason for high attrition is transfers, which I understand if you can transfer to Stanford or Hastings it will open more doors than GGU. Santa Clara and USF really won't open that many more doors and it is certainly not worth passing up scholarship money to go to those schools over GGU that is just my opinion. 


A lot of these schools don't fail out many people after their first term. Everybody on AP keeps that to themselves. You won't notice a drop until after your 2nd semester grades are released. I do agree with you that there is a lot of b.s. horror stories out there about t4's and how they fail out more than half of their class, but saying that the reason for these high attritions rates is due solely to transfers is a misnomer. Yeah, many people who are dismissed did not put in the requisite work to graduate. However, a decent amount of people put in the time and effort and just couldn't perform.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 21, 2010, 12:09:54 PM
In other words, they weren't smart enough for Law.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 21, 2010, 02:30:36 PM
Yea of course there will be a few people that don't make it who do put in the work. Even Hastings and I wouldn't shocked if Harvard, Yale had a few people that just don't make it. It is really sad, there is one kid in my section that does try really hard and he got a 1.9 first semester and may not be coming back depending on how he did. Who knows maybe I got straight D's second semester and will be kicked out. If I got straight D's after all the work I put in to studying then the law is not for me and they should kick me out.

Hastings as an example let two friends of mine stay when they should have been kicked out and now they have both failed the bar twice. They had horrible GPA's and were at the bottom of their class all 3 years, they should have dismissed them instead of collecting from them for two more years. I think tier 4's are a lot more honest and kick people out if they really don't think they are going to make it, which is the way it should be.

Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 21, 2010, 03:31:39 PM
Law is just a bunch of reasoning and remembering. How the hell can you pull a D in easy work? Try out electromagnetic theory and quantum mechanics and see if you do any better... You won't, trust me. I pulled a straight B in those classes but finished. I never had a B until I decided to take those two classes together. Worst semester of my life and I was on the edge pretty much as quantum mechanics is a true mindf^cker. Anyway, I view law as something I not only love but is easy to me.

People need to find their strengths and physics is no strength of mine. I got a B on the skin of my teeth by studying for the final test and doing some extra credit.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 21, 2010, 05:08:01 PM
Your ignorance is becoming baffling to me. Physics has absolutely nothing to do with law school.

I learned to dunk a basketball and bench 250 pounds I did through hard work so therefore I should be able to master physics and law school. Those two things are just as unrelated.

You obviously have a good educational background, but guess what so does everybody in law school.  You will be in competition with them.

I have given this example on this website, but I was a top H.S. school basketball player and I was really good in high school. Guess what happened, when I went to play college everybody was really good and I was not special anymore, because everybody was good at basketball and I was the 6th or 7th best on the team.

Whatever, law school you go to there will be a lot of smart people some with a lot more education and experience than you and you will be in competition with them. Maybe there will be an idiot savant in your class that is a complete retard, but somehow has a knack for the law and will get a better grade than you, despite you being able to speak two languages and having done well.

You keep talking as if you have accomplished something, but you have even taken the LSAT yet. Whatever you get the first day of law school nobody is going to care they will all have similar scores and experiences to you and you will be in competition with them. I wish you the best in law school, but you really to need to understand whatever you did in the past means ja*k as far as law school grades. All that matters is a 3 hour final you take for each class that's it. You could have 8 nobel peace prizes and not understand what is on the final and get a D.  The professor has no idea who you are when they grade your exam you are simply a number.

You can continue telling yourself how great you are and if that ends up working out great, but I am just telling you with my 1 year of law school, which in no way makes me an expert anything, but I do know what happens in the first year of law school and I know that nobody really cares how smart you were or what you did in the past.  When it comes to grades and class ranking it is all based on 3 hour test and nothing else.   
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 21, 2010, 05:12:30 PM
Yea of course there will be a few people that don't make it who do put in the work. Even Hastings and I wouldn't shocked if Harvard, Yale had a few people that just don't make it. It is really sad, there is one kid in my section that does try really hard and he got a 1.9 first semester and may not be coming back depending on how he did. Who knows maybe I got straight D's second semester and will be kicked out. If I got straight D's after all the work I put in to studying then the law is not for me and they should kick me out.

Hastings as an example let two friends of mine stay when they should have been kicked out and now they have both failed the bar twice. They had horrible GPA's and were at the bottom of their class all 3 years, they should have dismissed them instead of collecting from them for two more years. I think tier 4's are a lot more honest and kick people out if they really don't think they are going to make it, which is the way it should be.

Yep, their attrition rate is .5% or so.

So even Yalies can fail out.  Just at a far...FARRRR lower rate than the folks admitted to a school like Cooley.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 22, 2010, 08:57:56 AM
It makes perfect sense why Yale flunks out a lot fewer people, because if you get into Yale you obviously are pretty damn mart academically, but there are exceptions. I would never for a second say Cooley is on the same caliber as Yale.  If I had a kid or I had the choice between GGU and Yale I would obviously choose Yale. However, a school like USF or Santa Clara has approximately the same attrition rates as GGU 26 academic attrition students from USF and 17 at Santa Clara compared to 35 at GGU. \

True GGU has a few more students fail out, but it is by no means mandatory to fail out students at any school.  A difference of 9 students between USF and GGU shows the difference between a tier 2 or tier 4 at the end of the day doesn't really matter. Stanford had nobody fail out and Stanford is a pretty damn good school and nobody is questioning that and I had I gotten a 178 on my LSAT that is where I would be.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 22, 2010, 10:15:38 AM
It makes perfect sense why Yale flunks out a lot fewer people, because if you get into Yale you obviously are pretty damn mart academically, but there are exceptions. I would never for a second say Cooley is on the same caliber as Yale.  If I had a kid or I had the choice between GGU and Yale I would obviously choose Yale. However, a school like USF or Santa Clara has approximately the same attrition rates as GGU 26 academic attrition students from USF and 17 at Santa Clara compared to 35 at GGU. \

True GGU has a few more students fail out, but it is by no means mandatory to fail out students at any school.  A difference of 9 students between USF and GGU shows the difference between a tier 2 or tier 4 at the end of the day doesn't really matter. Stanford had nobody fail out and Stanford is a pretty damn good school and nobody is questioning that and I had I gotten a 178 on my LSAT that is where I would be.

Even further down the line, UF has far lower attrition rates than Cooley.  Not sure what GGU's rate is but instead of you saying "a few more" how about posting the 1L attrition rates of BOTH GGU and any school you are comparing it to?  That is objective.  You saying a few more tells me nothing, could be a few more than 5% or a few more than 15%...which are at opposite ends of the spectrum of attrition rates far as I'm concerned.  A few more than 5 is still in single digits. A few more than 15 is getting from ridiculous to WTF levels.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 22, 2010, 10:29:08 AM
I honestly do love the fact that they have their own rankings. I think it is an awesome slap in the face to the U.S. News ranking which literally has as much merit as Cooley's system does.  In fact Cooley's actually is a better formula, because at least they do use objective standards even if it is the amount of chairs a school has at least that is measurable. 

This fails at all levels.

ROFL I KNEW you wouldn't let this thread slide. lol.

OP did you actually tell us why you love Cooley?  It's not located somewhere I would want to live and work so that's my particular reason for not feeling any interest...also it's name sounds like an Indian slang for lower classes of East Indians (coolie) so I just don't feel comfortable going to a whole school named that.  The word is popular in my culture and if I tell anyone in my family who has no clue about law schools, the name alone is going to make them raise eyebrows and laugh because of the cultural meaning, times two for it being a school they never heard of.

That's like that school over in LYNCHburg, VA.  Va already has a bad reputation...hell I look like going to a school in a place with a name that makes the hairs on the back of my neck rise.  Ahhhh no I'll pass. Trivial reasons but still. 

lol I remember when I just came to America and saw a place in the newspaper named Tivoli Gardens...I nearly died laughing.  No self-respecting person from my country would come all the way to America to live somewhere named after the most infamous ghetto in my country.  Not even if you paid them. lol.

What's in a name indeed. ROFL
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 22, 2010, 02:07:26 PM
Not sure what Coolie means but Thomas M Cooley was a jurist.

I honestly do love the fact that they have their own rankings. I think it is an awesome slap in the face to the U.S. News ranking which literally has as much merit as Cooley's system does.  In fact Cooley's actually is a better formula, because at least they do use objective standards even if it is the amount of chairs a school has at least that is measurable. 

This fails at all levels.

ROFL I KNEW you wouldn't let this thread slide. lol.

OP did you actually tell us why you love Cooley?  It's not located somewhere I would want to live and work so that's my particular reason for not feeling any interest...also it's name sounds like an Indian slang for lower classes of East Indians (coolie) so I just don't feel comfortable going to a whole school named that.  The word is popular in my culture and if I tell anyone in my family who has no clue about law schools, the name alone is going to make them raise eyebrows and laugh because of the cultural meaning, times two for it being a school they never heard of.

That's like that school over in LYNCHburg, VA.  Va already has a bad reputation...hell I look like going to a school in a place with a name that makes the hairs on the back of my neck rise.  Ahhhh no I'll pass. Trivial reasons but still. 

lol I remember when I just came to America and saw a place in the newspaper named Tivoli Gardens...I nearly died laughing.  No self-respecting person from my country would come all the way to America to live somewhere named after the most infamous ghetto in my country.  Not even if you paid them. lol.

What's in a name indeed. ROFL
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 22, 2010, 02:39:41 PM
USF has a 20% attrition  GGU has a 24% attrition rate. For first year roughly equal in my opinion.

They did just update the LSAC info and GGU's bar passage rate went from 77% to 68% and USF is at 82% so that is a significant 68% compared to 82% and they both had approximately the same people reporting.  How much does the bar passage rate reflect the quality of the school? It is hard to say because it is a standardized test, but I think a school does fail a student if they grant them a J.D. and they don't pass the bar.

That is an objective report though and if U.S. News put more than 2% consideration into their rankings for bar passage I would take them a lot more seriously. At the end of the day if I go to Harvard or Cooley and don't pass the bar I would be kind of po'ed, because neither school should have let me graduate if I couldn't pass the bar.

Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 22, 2010, 04:11:35 PM
USF has a 20% attrition  GGU has a 24% attrition rate. For first year roughly equal in my opinion.

They did just update the LSAC info and GGU's bar passage rate went from 77% to 68% and USF is at 82% so that is a significant 68% compared to 82% and they both had approximately the same people reporting.  How much does the bar passage rate reflect the quality of the school? It is hard to say because it is a standardized test, but I think a school does fail a student if they grant them a J.D. and they don't pass the bar.

That is an objective report though and if U.S. News put more than 2% consideration into their rankings for bar passage I would take them a lot more seriously. At the end of the day if I go to Harvard or Cooley and don't pass the bar I would be kind of po'ed, because neither school should have let me graduate if I couldn't pass the bar.

ROFL I didn't even know USF had a law school.  Why did I say UF and you go find some school that's not even part of the conversation (and apparently for good reason) and start using that to make your point?

smh.   

Law schools aren't here to make people pass bars. Their job is to award JD's to those who have learned the curriculum satisfactorily.

BarBri's job is to get people to pass the bar. :-)
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 23, 2010, 07:17:51 AM
That is an objective report though and if U.S. News put more than 2% consideration into their rankings for bar passage I would take them a lot more seriously. At the end of the day if I go to Harvard or Cooley and don't pass the bar I would be kind of po'ed, because neither school should have let me graduate if I couldn't pass the bar.

This is nonsense.  If you go to Harvard and don't pass the bar exam, it's because you didn't prepare for it properly during the summer before the exam.  I won't argue that it is the responsibility of some schools to prepare you for the bar, but at the very top schools the presumption is that you can prepare for it during those two months after you graduate, because it's just a bunch of memorization that is relatively easy for anyone at that level.

Maybe if they split up the rankings so that there was the top 25 and then there were regional rankings, bar passage should count for more for the non-top schools.  It doesn't make sense for the top schools.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 23, 2010, 07:59:16 AM
That is an objective report though and if U.S. News put more than 2% consideration into their rankings for bar passage I would take them a lot more seriously. At the end of the day if I go to Harvard or Cooley and don't pass the bar I would be kind of po'ed, because neither school should have let me graduate if I couldn't pass the bar.

This is nonsense.  If you go to Harvard and don't pass the bar exam, it's because you didn't prepare for it properly during the summer before the exam.  I won't argue that it is the responsibility of some schools to prepare you for the bar, but at the very top schools the presumption is that you can prepare for it during those two months after you graduate, because it's just a bunch of memorization that is relatively easy for anyone at that level.

Maybe if they split up the rankings so that there was the top 25 and then there were regional rankings, bar passage should count for more for the non-top schools.  It doesn't make sense for the top schools.

More like split it by top 10 and then Everybody Else.

And what these rankings are, really, are a rank of the law schools' relative worth/importance to biglaw. 

I am by no means an expert but I put myself in the shoes of a small law practice and if I as a lawyer know it costs a grip for this applicant to attend xyz top 10-14 law school and that they wouldn't even look at my firm if the economy wasn't so bad, plus they can't repay their debt on my salary...why take them over a traditional applicant from a less pricey local or regional school?

I would think a smart hiring partner would realize someone who got through law school on a full scholarship or with minor debt has much more leeway to take a lower paying job and not be miserable about it.


Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 23, 2010, 08:45:11 AM
How do you know that someone who was offered full rides at Ivy League schools  didnt pick to go to cooley instead? Mabey they just don't like the smell of manure.  ::)

 
That is an objective report though and if U.S. News put more than 2% consideration into their rankings for bar passage I would take them a lot more seriously. At the end of the day if I go to Harvard or Cooley and don't pass the bar I would be kind of po'ed, because neither school should have let me graduate if I couldn't pass the bar.

This is nonsense.  If you go to Harvard and don't pass the bar exam, it's because you didn't prepare for it properly during the summer before the exam.  I won't argue that it is the responsibility of some schools to prepare you for the bar, but at the very top schools the presumption is that you can prepare for it during those two months after you graduate, because it's just a bunch of memorization that is relatively easy for anyone at that level.

Maybe if they split up the rankings so that there was the top 25 and then there were regional rankings, bar passage should count for more for the non-top schools.  It doesn't make sense for the top schools.

More like split it by top 10 and then Everybody Else.

And what these rankings are, really, are a rank of the law schools' relative worth/importance to biglaw. 

I am by no means an expert but I put myself in the shoes of a small law practice and if I as a lawyer know it costs a grip for this applicant to attend xyz top 10-14 law school and that they wouldn't even look at my firm if the economy wasn't so bad, plus they can't repay their debt on my salary...why take them over a traditional applicant from a less pricey local or regional school?

I would think a smart hiring partner would realize someone who got through law school on a full scholarship or with minor debt has much more leeway to take a lower paying job and not be miserable about it.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 23, 2010, 09:32:50 AM

And what these rankings are, really, are a rank of the law schools' relative worth/importance to biglaw. 

If the rankings claimed they were only about BigLaw then I would not have problem with them. It would continue down the path that it is pointless to rank outside of the top 25 maybe 50. I am sure at BigLaw firms there are approximately as many Gonzaga/Hofstra Grads as there are GGU/Cal Western/Southwestern Grads. Biglaw does not care about tier 2/3/4 you have to be exceptional from one of those schools to get into BigLaw.

I think regional rankings and bar passage would be fair, but it would have to be by state. If they did all the California schools and used bar passage rate and let it make up 60% of the rankings and actually went more in depth as to what placement means then I would have no problem with it. You can agree that schools screw with placement, I went to a couple schools and asked for in-depth salary information etc and schools count unpaid internships at graduation as placement and I think we can agree that is B.S. and clearly not what you would consider EMPLOYMENT PLACEMENT after going 100k in debt.

Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 23, 2010, 01:22:43 PM
How do you know that someone who was offered full rides at Ivy League schools  didnt pick to go to cooley instead? Mabey they just don't like the smell of manure.  ::)

 
That is an objective report though and if U.S. News put more than 2% consideration into their rankings for bar passage I would take them a lot more seriously. At the end of the day if I go to Harvard or Cooley and don't pass the bar I would be kind of po'ed, because neither school should have let me graduate if I couldn't pass the bar.

This is nonsense.  If you go to Harvard and don't pass the bar exam, it's because you didn't prepare for it properly during the summer before the exam.  I won't argue that it is the responsibility of some schools to prepare you for the bar, but at the very top schools the presumption is that you can prepare for it during those two months after you graduate, because it's just a bunch of memorization that is relatively easy for anyone at that level.

Maybe if they split up the rankings so that there was the top 25 and then there were regional rankings, bar passage should count for more for the non-top schools.  It doesn't make sense for the top schools.

More like split it by top 10 and then Everybody Else.

And what these rankings are, really, are a rank of the law schools' relative worth/importance to biglaw. 

I am by no means an expert but I put myself in the shoes of a small law practice and if I as a lawyer know it costs a grip for this applicant to attend xyz top 10-14 law school and that they wouldn't even look at my firm if the economy wasn't so bad, plus they can't repay their debt on my salary...why take them over a traditional applicant from a less pricey local or regional school?

I would think a smart hiring partner would realize someone who got through law school on a full scholarship or with minor debt has much more leeway to take a lower paying job and not be miserable about it.

*snickers* yeah ok.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 23, 2010, 01:23:18 PM

And what these rankings are, really, are a rank of the law schools' relative worth/importance to biglaw. 

If the rankings claimed they were only about BigLaw then I would not have problem with them. It would continue down the path that it is pointless to rank outside of the top 25 maybe 50. I am sure at BigLaw firms there are approximately as many Gonzaga/Hofstra Grads as there are GGU/Cal Western/Southwestern Grads. Biglaw does not care about tier 2/3/4 you have to be exceptional from one of those schools to get into BigLaw.

I think regional rankings and bar passage would be fair, but it would have to be by state. If they did all the California schools and used bar passage rate and let it make up 60% of the rankings and actually went more in depth as to what placement means then I would have no problem with it. You can agree that schools screw with placement, I went to a couple schools and asked for in-depth salary information etc and schools count unpaid internships at graduation as placement and I think we can agree that is B.S. and clearly not what you would consider EMPLOYMENT PLACEMENT after going 100k in debt.

True.

Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 23, 2010, 01:30:25 PM
mabey they're just scared to leave their daddys house, idiot sevonts tend to be that way.

How do you know that someone who was offered full rides at Ivy League schools  didnt pick to go to cooley instead? Mabey they just don't like the smell of manure.  ::)

 
That is an objective report though and if U.S. News put more than 2% consideration into their rankings for bar passage I would take them a lot more seriously. At the end of the day if I go to Harvard or Cooley and don't pass the bar I would be kind of po'ed, because neither school should have let me graduate if I couldn't pass the bar.

This is nonsense.  If you go to Harvard and don't pass the bar exam, it's because you didn't prepare for it properly during the summer before the exam.  I won't argue that it is the responsibility of some schools to prepare you for the bar, but at the very top schools the presumption is that you can prepare for it during those two months after you graduate, because it's just a bunch of memorization that is relatively easy for anyone at that level.

Maybe if they split up the rankings so that there was the top 25 and then there were regional rankings, bar passage should count for more for the non-top schools.  It doesn't make sense for the top schools.

More like split it by top 10 and then Everybody Else.

And what these rankings are, really, are a rank of the law schools' relative worth/importance to biglaw. 

I am by no means an expert but I put myself in the shoes of a small law practice and if I as a lawyer know it costs a grip for this applicant to attend xyz top 10-14 law school and that they wouldn't even look at my firm if the economy wasn't so bad, plus they can't repay their debt on my salary...why take them over a traditional applicant from a less pricey local or regional school?

I would think a smart hiring partner would realize someone who got through law school on a full scholarship or with minor debt has much more leeway to take a lower paying job and not be miserable about it.

*snickers* yeah ok.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 23, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
mabey they're just scared to leave their daddys house, idiot sevonts tend to be that way.


ROFL that is between you and that other kid. I'm staying out of that one.

Why DID you choose cooley?
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 23, 2010, 02:33:55 PM
BLSE, nuff said.  8)



mabey they're just scared to leave their daddys house, idiot sevonts tend to be that way.


ROFL that is between you and that other kid. I'm staying out of that one.

Why DID you choose cooley?
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 23, 2010, 04:09:36 PM
BLSE, nuff said.  8)



mabey they're just scared to leave their daddys house, idiot sevonts tend to be that way.


ROFL that is between you and that other kid. I'm staying out of that one.

Why DID you choose cooley?

I'm a bit slow on sundays...wut?
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 23, 2010, 07:12:35 PM
Best Law School Ever (like the subject of this thread says)

BLSE, nuff said.  8)



mabey they're just scared to leave their daddys house, idiot sevonts tend to be that way.


ROFL that is between you and that other kid. I'm staying out of that one.

Why DID you choose cooley?

I'm a bit slow on sundays...wut?
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: legalized on May 23, 2010, 07:37:35 PM
Best Law School Ever (like the subject of this thread says)

BLSE, nuff said.  8)



mabey they're just scared to leave their daddys house, idiot sevonts tend to be that way.


ROFL that is between you and that other kid. I'm staying out of that one.

Why DID you choose cooley?

I'm a bit slow on sundays...wut?

I ask a serious question expecting a response detailing the thoughts going through your mind that made you decide it is the best...and you just...ugh.

Nevermind.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 23, 2010, 07:43:48 PM
Hey, its not my fault that my lady is prettier than the other ladies out there. Call it Amore'  :-*

Best Law School Ever (like the subject of this thread says)

BLSE, nuff said.  8)



mabey they're just scared to leave their daddys house, idiot sevonts tend to be that way.


ROFL that is between you and that other kid. I'm staying out of that one.

Why DID you choose cooley?

I'm a bit slow on sundays...wut?

I ask a serious question expecting a response detailing the thoughts going through your mind that made you decide it is the best...and you just...ugh.

Nevermind.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 23, 2010, 09:26:08 PM
More like split it by top 10 and then Everybody Else.

And what these rankings are, really, are a rank of the law schools' relative worth/importance to biglaw. 

I am by no means an expert but I put myself in the shoes of a small law practice and if I as a lawyer know it costs a grip for this applicant to attend xyz top 10-14 law school and that they wouldn't even look at my firm if the economy wasn't so bad, plus they can't repay their debt on my salary...why take them over a traditional applicant from a less pricey local or regional school?

I would think a smart hiring partner would realize someone who got through law school on a full scholarship or with minor debt has much more leeway to take a lower paying job and not be miserable about it.

I think 25 is actually a fair number.  Also, not just biglaw.  Yale is #1 because of its importance to academia and the judiciary, for example.

And hiring partners don't really ask, "how much debt do you have?"  Also, the less debt a lawyer has, the easier it is for that person to walk away from their job, so from that perspective a high-debt lawyer is actually someone over whom an employer will have more leverage.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 23, 2010, 10:58:25 PM
Thats baloney. The military wont give you a security clearnence if you have too much debt for a simple reason, you're hundreds of times more likely to be  a sellout. Either as a spy, or in the civilian world jump corporate ships for better pay. They only "own" you in you suck and can't prove yourself worthy to the competition.

More like split it by top 10 and then Everybody Else.

And what these rankings are, really, are a rank of the law schools' relative worth/importance to biglaw. 

I am by no means an expert but I put myself in the shoes of a small law practice and if I as a lawyer know it costs a grip for this applicant to attend xyz top 10-14 law school and that they wouldn't even look at my firm if the economy wasn't so bad, plus they can't repay their debt on my salary...why take them over a traditional applicant from a less pricey local or regional school?

I would think a smart hiring partner would realize someone who got through law school on a full scholarship or with minor debt has much more leeway to take a lower paying job and not be miserable about it.

I think 25 is actually a fair number.  Also, not just biglaw.  Yale is #1 because of its importance to academia and the judiciary, for example.

And hiring partners don't really ask, "how much debt do you have?"  Also, the less debt a lawyer has, the easier it is for that person to walk away from their job, so from that perspective a high-debt lawyer is actually someone over whom an employer will have more leverage.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: the white rabbit on May 24, 2010, 02:22:33 AM
They only "own" you in you suck and can't prove yourself worthy to the competition.

I like how you act like you know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 24, 2010, 07:59:51 AM
On some things I do. This is one of them.
I get it that some may have "do not compete" clauses in their contracts, but those normally only apply withinn a 50 miles radius. Thats only about one county.

They only "own" you in you suck and can't prove yourself worthy to the competition.

I like how you act like you know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 24, 2010, 10:00:24 AM
High debt lawyers and the military? No wonder you guys cannot find common ground. A high debt lawyer is one who does not have many options outside of his field, but even then, it is easy to generate less debt, maximize profitability, and garner a sense of "don't give a damn," within the legal world that will land you a job. If I fail at law, which is like a 2 percent chance, I can go to medical school. My folks have paid up most of my undergrad, so that leaves me with an abundance of loan money I can take out in law school.

Here is a tip: when in law school, take out a 50k + loan, you can almost get them if you look for one, try a bank but you have to have good credit and a co-signer (my parents have extremely good credit, and I haven't messed up my credit, so it would work), after that take the 30k of the 50k and buy some commodities that you have studied and know will be good in a bearish market.After you sell the commodities at a capital, not loss, you will have more than 50k, say you sell each above their original 'x' price you bought them for and had enough to cover the other variables, you now have more money possibly tipping on 170k. Then you take a portion of the 170k, say 65k as you need more than 100 to have entrance into a trade scene. You could possibly, with adequate study time and knowing the markets, turn that 65 into 300k, depending on whether you have good patience and risk management. Anyway... That is all the advice I will give you.

By making profit in Law School, I will become an instant millionaire once I am out. Not only that, if I loose money over the course of a year, then I can make it back as I have an adequate stream of money called Financial Aid. Idiots go into debt in law school.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 24, 2010, 10:07:41 AM
He has arisin!  ::)

High debt lawyers and the military? No wonder you guys cannot find common ground. A high debt lawyer is one who does not have many options outside of his field, but even then, it is easy to generate less debt, maximize profitability, and garner a sense of "don't give a damn," within the legal world that will land you a job. If I fail at law, which is like a 2 percent chance, I can go to medical school. My folks have paid up most of my undergrad, so that leaves me with an abundance of loan money I can take out in law school.

Here is a tip: when in law school, take out a 50k + loan, you can almost get them if you look for one, try a bank but you have to have good credit and a co-signer (my parents have extremely good credit, and I haven't messed up my credit, so it would work), after that take the 30k of the 50k and buy some commodities that you have studied and know will be good in a bearish market.After you sell the commodities at a capital, not loss, you will have more than 50k, say you sell each above their original 'x' price you bought them for and had enough to cover the other variables, you now have more money possibly tipping on 170k. Then you take a portion of the 170k, say 65k as you need more than 100 to have entrance into a trade scene. You could possibly, with adequate study time and knowing the markets, turn that 65 into 300k, depending on whether you have good patience and risk management. Anyway... That is all the advice I will give you.

By making profit in Law School, I will become an instant millionaire once I am out. Not only that, if I loose money over the course of a year, then I can make it back as I have an adequate stream of money called Financial Aid. Idiots go into debt in law school.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 24, 2010, 10:10:02 AM
Big law is what I hear people talk about, yet these morons don't know jackshit about Big Law.

Incurring little-to-no-debt on financial aid is what these law firms will look towards. They will say, "how the hell did you do it?" the response, "i am one damn good lawyer." Instant job.

Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 24, 2010, 10:14:22 AM
Proving one self without just having daddy hand it to them....... :'(


Big law is what I hear people talk about, yet these morons don't know jackshit about Big Law.

Incurring little-to-no-debt on financial aid is what these law firms will look towards. They will say, "how the hell did you do it?" the response, "i am one damn good lawyer." Instant job.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 24, 2010, 12:31:31 PM
Sonofapickle are you the reincarnation of Andy Bernard?

They don't hand you 50K on the first day of law school, you get half the money, which in San Francisco probably the highest cost of living city is 12k one semester and then 12k the next semester.  Granted if I had someone paying all my bills I would have 24k in cash, which would be great and I might try to capitalize on it, but is also illegal to use the loan money for investment purposes "I think" not 100% sure on that.  It is unlikely you would ever get caught if you did it, but breaking tax law while in law school might not please a bar committee.

Also you keep talking about your f'ing parents, believe it or not you generally have you use the loan money to live. If my parents were millionaires that would be awesome and I would get out of law school debt free. I don't think any partner will be impressed that you didn't go into debt, because your parents paid for everything.

You are so naive and incompetent it is amazing. Take the real LSAT and go to law school and at least pass the first semester then start talking about clever you are.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 24, 2010, 12:38:29 PM
Lol @ naive and incompetent used in conjunction. Because law school is so hard that memorizing a few laws and text book writing is like memorizing a bunch of scientific laws, algorithms, theories, mathematical functions, and applying all of it in an essay and questions on a test? You over estimate law school. I have seen textbooks that law schools tend to use, and have to say, the stuff is like sociology. Easy to remember, easy to do, easy to apply.

Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 24, 2010, 12:47:38 PM
Math is nothing like Science you idiot. Everybody knows the rules it is how argue them that will get you a good grade. Unlike science the law does not have a right answer and it is up to you analyze a fact pattern better than the other students in your class. Every single student knows the elements of negligence in torts it is easy duty, breach, causation, damages. Wooo knowing the rules is not the hard part of law school. You have to analyze fact pattern explaining why it goes one way or the other and there is no right answer it is up to your ability to argue a fact pattern and as you tend to on this site you can't simply say I am smart for each argument on the final.

Science has a solid concrete answer and does not exist in the law. The answer to almost every question in law school is MAYBE in science the answer is almost never maybe.  Try actually going to law school before talking out of your ass about it.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 24, 2010, 01:38:08 PM
For your information math and science interrelate material into its applications. Why the hell do you think, you must have above a Calculus II prerequisite to even take higher forms of science? Science, unlike law, is the hardest field and not for everyone because it is mentally demanding.

You think by giving your bullshi*t opinion on a multiple choice exam will work? No, it will not work. Law schools integrate the multiple choice questions on their exams. That means, out of the 4-5 answers for a possible questions, there are straight wrong ones, a seemingly right answer, and the right answer. If you know how to read, comprehend, and you know the concepts of which the question is talking about, you will answer it correctly.

If you believe QM is so easy, I beg you to take a semester in it. When 50% of the exam grade is counted on the essay portion, you will wish you had studied or were smart enough to know what the hell the question was talking about, and how to complete it. The essay portion is not easy either as you have to create a hypothetical situation, apply it to real life, use a mathematical formula that you BELIEVE will support your hypothesis, and use what rules you've been taught in both the lecture and book to convey that your answer is correct. This answer cannot be a simple paragraph or page, but rather it will take you nearly 4 pages to complete if you are getting everything down not just summarizing. Then you have the multiple choice part where all the answers seem correct but only one answer is correct. It comes down to whether you know which formula is being used and how to apply it. Sounds similar to law, doesn't it? The tests administered by the professors at the school I attend in physics are just as hard as a law school exam. They aren't just what you believe is right, but rather, how can you use what is given and what you know to support your conjecture? That is much like law, yet you are too stupid enough to even get that.

A lot of schools use that same formula when concerning tests, not just law school. You overestimate law school and down play academia much harder than law. Engineering is 4x harder than law and engineering students have extremely harder tests than law school students. Science has as much conjecture than it has right answers. Just by you saying that, you show your lack of education in science. Most theories, are THEORIES, for a reason... They have backing, but are not considered laws. A law in science is something that is set in concrete and is proven and has no form of doubt.

You think you know gravity? Think again, as gravity is not real, then it is real in a different form of context. Mindfucker isn't it? Study science and then come and tell me what it is as you don't have much knowledge of it.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 24, 2010, 04:57:07 PM
For your information math and science interrelate material into its applications. Why the hell do you think, you must have above a Calculus II prerequisite to even take higher forms of science? Science, unlike law, is the hardest field and not for everyone because it is mentally demanding.

You think by giving your bullshi*t opinion on a multiple choice exam will work? No, it will not work. Law schools integrate the multiple choice questions on their exams. That means, out of the 4-5 answers for a possible questions, there are straight wrong ones, a seemingly right answer, and the right answer. If you know how to read, comprehend, and you know the concepts of which the question is talking about, you will answer it correctly.

If you believe QM is so easy, I beg you to take a semester in it. When 50% of the exam grade is counted on the essay portion, you will wish you had studied or were smart enough to know what the hell the question was talking about, and how to complete it. The essay portion is not easy either as you have to create a hypothetical situation, apply it to real life, use a mathematical formula that you BELIEVE will support your hypothesis, and use what rules you've been taught in both the lecture and book to convey that your answer is correct. This answer cannot be a simple paragraph or page, but rather it will take you nearly 4 pages to complete if you are getting everything down not just summarizing. Then you have the multiple choice part where all the answers seem correct but only one answer is correct. It comes down to whether you know which formula is being used and how to apply it. Sounds similar to law, doesn't it? The tests administered by the professors at the school I attend in physics are just as hard as a law school exam. They aren't just what you believe is right, but rather, how can you use what is given and what you know to support your conjecture? That is much like law, yet you are too stupid enough to even get that.

A lot of schools use that same formula when concerning tests, not just law school. You overestimate law school and down play academia much harder than law. Engineering is 4x harder than law and engineering students have extremely harder tests than law school students. Science has as much conjecture than it has right answers. Just by you saying that, you show your lack of education in science. Most theories, are THEORIES, for a reason... They have backing, but are not considered laws. A law in science is something that is set in concrete and is proven and has no form of doubt.

You think you know gravity? Think again, as gravity is not real, then it is real in a different form of context. Mindfucker isn't it? Study science and then come and tell me what it is as you don't have much knowledge of it.

I don't know what to say to you yea science is very difficult, but it is completely irrelevant to law school. You have to be smart for either one, but they are not related at all. Football players are generally terrible at basketball and vice versa both sports require the person to have athleticism, but being good at basketball will not make you good at football.  I was really good at basketball, but I couldn't hit a baseball to save my life I was really athelitc, but I sucked at baseball. There are plenty of people who can do well in science and awful in law. There are people who can do great in the law, but couldn't do anything science to save their lives.

For the record this is LAW SCHOOL DISCUSSION why don't you go to law school and then talk about how easy it is at the moment you are talking completely out of your ass. I respect science a lot and understand it is difficult and so is the law maybe you will do great in law school who the hell knows, but with your "genius" you haven't managed to have the balls to take the LSAT have you? So shut your damn mouth and grow a pair and take the REAL LSAT and then sit for a law school final.

Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 24, 2010, 06:03:03 PM
You're applying completely irrelevant cases to this. A football player requires a different form of bodily movement than a basketball player. Law and science requires two similar forms of thought which are basically, "higher processing." Law requires you to think more philosophically whereas science requires you to not only think philosophically but also on several different planes. That way you can generate new ideas, keep your own, but also follow the rules of logical reasoning. Law is similar in that aspect but it is not as mentally taxing.

Why the hell do you think a math/physics majors do the best when it comes to the LSAT? They are much more mentally inclined to think outside the box and follow the rules of logical reasoning and games than a person who is not.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: bigs5068 on May 24, 2010, 06:21:04 PM
First what does higher processing mean? Second according to who do math/physics majors do better on the LSAT? 

Also don't you go to a liberal arts college, since you are so technically inclined and allegedly brilliant why did you not go to MIT or something? 

I think the basketball/football player is right on both are professional athletes who are tall, can bench press a lot of weight, run fast, catch well, have a competitive edge etc.  Or simply they both require athletic "higher processing" as look to call it and being good one does not make you good at the other. Even with those similar characteristics.

Maybe you will do great in law school, but I hope for the sake of everybody you get humbled, but the results will be what they are and if you get a 180 on your LSAT and get the Witkin award in every class then what can be said you would be pretty damn smart when it comes to legal education. If you do all that and eventually become a Supreme Court Judge then nobody can say anything to you your connections, experience, whatever got you there worked, but as of now you are talking out of your ass you have not done anything not even the most basic step, which is taking the LSAT. Get a 180 and on it and tell the world if you want, but nobody in law school will want to hear or care how will you did on the LSAT so I would recommend keeping it to yourself. Being humble is a quality that people respect and you obviously have not learned that lesson. 




Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 24, 2010, 06:22:09 PM
How ironic that someone who constantly brings up "irrelevant" stuff (like science and math and where you went to undergrad which have zero to do with lawschool) suddenly has any opinion on what "irrelevant" is to him....... ::)

You're applying completely irrelevant cases to this. A football player requires a different form of bodily movement than a basketball player. Law and science requires two similar forms of thought which are basically, "higher processing." Law requires you to think more philosophically whereas science requires you to not only think philosophically but also on several different planes. That way you can generate new ideas, keep your own, but also follow the rules of logical reasoning. Law is similar in that aspect but it is not as mentally taxing.

Why the hell do you think a math/physics majors do the best when it comes to the LSAT? They are much more mentally inclined to think outside the box and follow the rules of logical reasoning and games than a person who is not.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: sonofapickle on May 24, 2010, 06:31:17 PM
To the contrary, my points are relevant.

First what does higher processing mean? Second according to who do math/physics majors do better on the LSAT? 

Also don't you go to a liberal arts college, since you are so technically inclined and allegedly brilliant why did you not go to MIT or something? 

I think the basketball/football player is right on both are professional athletes who are tall, can bench press a lot of weight, run fast, catch well, have a competitive edge etc.  Or simply they both require athletic "higher processing" as look to call it and being good one does not make you good at the other. Even with those similar characteristics.

Maybe you will do great in law school, but I hope for the sake of everybody you get humbled, but the results will be what they are and if you get a 180 on your LSAT and get the Witkin award in every class then what can be said you would be pretty damn smart when it comes to legal education. If you do all that and eventually become a Supreme Court Judge then nobody can say anything to you your connections, experience, whatever got you there worked, but as of now you are talking out of your ass you have not done anything not even the most basic step, which is taking the LSAT. Get a 180 and on it and tell the world if you want, but nobody in law school will want to hear or care how will you did on the LSAT so I would recommend keeping it to yourself. Being humble is a quality that people respect and you obviously have not learned that lesson.

Higher processing is how well you do with logic, reason, how quick you are when it comes to computing numbers, how well you think under pressure, etc... All humans use it, but other humans use it to an even greater extent than the average.

I, although not like on here, have always gloated about my accomplishments and scores on exams and grades. Apart from being on the swim and softball team where I am extremely competitive, I am also competitive when it comes to grades. I make it known if I did well on an exam or if my GPA is higher than other students. Academia like sports, is better for everyone if it is treated like a sport. Humbleness is the crux of weakness to me.
Title: Re: Why cooley is the best law school ever.
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 24, 2010, 07:33:37 PM
son, they may have to put you back in the hospital if you don't stop soon. I can't afford the Belvue one anymore, it won't be as nice when the blackmen that you hate so much who make only minimum wage who have the job due to AA have to secure you in your room during one of your "spells" Please son, for your grandmother weak heart, PLEASE.......... :-[