Law School Discussion

Off-Topic Area => General Off-Topic Board => Topic started by: Jen2bJD on April 18, 2010, 07:28:54 PM

Title: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Jen2bJD on April 18, 2010, 07:28:54 PM
Guys,

You start talking about the future with your girlfriend, and it comes out that she does not want to change her last name, but would rather keep her own name instead.  It's not for an extenuating reason, such as an established career--she'd just rather keep her own name.  How would you feel?  Be honest, and not PC!

My boyfriend and I had a two hour argument about this issue, and I finally relented and agreed to change my last name if we got married.  I know taking your husband's last name is by far the most common thing for a woman to do, I just didn't feel like doing it.  But, I did relent since it was such a big deal to him.

How would you react to your future wife wanting to keep her maiden name?

Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: CJScalia on April 18, 2010, 09:41:14 PM
Actually, my honest opinion is that I would not want her to change her last name. I also don't like the idea of the father "giving her away". Maybe I'm a bit of a geek, but both of these things just reflect to much of the "old school" aspect of marriage, where it essentially was a property transaction from father to husband. I want my lady to be an independent and strong woman, and that just makes both of those things "wrong" to me. Kids would obviously get hyphenated last names.

(Unless they turn out to be brats, then they'll be all hers!)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Jen2bJD on April 19, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
I loved both of your responses! Thank you for replying. :)

Anyone else?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mbw on April 19, 2010, 01:39:13 PM
My spouse, who has had a long, very established career in a high tech field, didn't want to completely change his name, so he hyphenated.  I understand, as my name is very common and his isn't so much; so people would have to get used to the idea of his having a completely different name.  But I didn't budge with the kids - they have my name, not hyphenated (although we did give each of the kids his name as a second middle name.)

ETA:  Oh, I'm sorry -- you only wanted to hear from guys.  Reading comp fail on my part.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: newbie1234 on April 19, 2010, 02:07:38 PM
I'm going to be brutally honest with you and tell you what you don't want, but need, to hear:

I'm from the deep south and, unless you have a prestigious last name (e.g., you descended from a long line of distinguished attorneys / doctors / politicians), it would be an insult to me if you refused to, at the very least, hyphenate your last name. Your refusal to do so would imply that you do not want to be associated with me.

That is just my opinion - take it as you wish.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: stareindecisis on April 19, 2010, 02:28:17 PM
I'm also from the south, but not the deep south (North Carolina).  Who knows if that affects my reaction, but I do NOT blame your fiance for being upset.  My future wife recently told me she'd be happy to take my name and I was honored and relieved.  I'm committing to her, I'm choosing a law school that is near where she wants to work, and I will support her however I can.  Her taking my name shows that she respects our union and is willing to make personal sacrifices for it (my last name is a bit more unwieldy than hers).

Also, in the back of every guy's mind:  "It's a bit easier for her to back out of this marriage if she hasn't even bothered to change her name."

Final note:  This response may appear bigoted, conservative, overly-general, even misogynistic.  I hope it isn't.  I'm just giving an honest perspective from a guy who can probably relate on some levels to your fiance.

Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Jen2bJD on April 19, 2010, 03:18:03 PM
I really appreciate all of the responses.  The great thing about a message board is that people will be more honest, and it is all food for thought. I love hearing everyone's thoughts on the matter and there's nothing offensive about any of them!

@stareindecisis, you sound just like my boyfriend; Thanks so much for being honest when the easiest thing to do is stick to a PC response. That goes for everyone, actually.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: TheCause on April 19, 2010, 05:37:28 PM
I'm happy my wife took my name.  I didn't really consider the overall consequences to society, but it is nice for my immediate family to all have the same last name.

Whatever you do, don't make your kids hyphenate their names.  I worked with a married girl who had a triple name.  (Dad's last name -Mom's last name - husband's last name.)

That's just not very cool.  And are her kids going to have the triple hyphen?  Eventually even a Quadruple hyphen?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: 'blueskies on April 19, 2010, 05:41:55 PM
That's just not very cool.  And are her kids going to have the triple hyphen?  Eventually even a Quadruple hyphen?

I have a feeling that College Lacrosse and Soccer Jerseys are going to look pretty strange in the next few years. (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/24/22-having-two-last-names/)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Jen2bJD on April 19, 2010, 05:52:39 PM
Whatever you do, don't make your kids hyphenate their names.  I worked with a married girl who had a triple name.  (Dad's last name -Mom's last name - husband's last name.)

That's just not very cool.  And are her kids going to have the triple hyphen?  Eventually even a Quadruple hyphen?


Yeah I can see where hyphenated names work for lots of people! It definitely seems like an equitable solution. It doesn't appeal to me personally, though.  I would just give the children my husband's surname.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 19, 2010, 10:13:37 PM
You wouldn't want your kids to have the same last name as you? Wouldn't that feel weird and detached? Wouldn't you get tired of people assumeing the kid was born as a bastard(the normal reason a woman does that)?

What about those who assume that the kid must be not yours but your husbands from a prior marriage? You really wouldn't want the same name as your kid?



Whatever you do, don't make your kids hyphenate their names.  I worked with a married girl who had a triple name.  (Dad's last name -Mom's last name - husband's last name.)

That's just not very cool.  And are her kids going to have the triple hyphen?  Eventually even a Quadruple hyphen?


Yeah I can see where hyphenated names work for lots of people! It definitely seems like an equitable solution. It doesn't appeal to me personally, though.  I would just give the children my husband's surname.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 19, 2010, 10:46:24 PM
Racist! >:(

That's just not very cool.  And are her kids going to have the triple hyphen?  Eventually even a Quadruple hyphen?

I have a feeling that College Lacrosse and Soccer Jerseys are going to look pretty strange in the next few years. (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/24/22-having-two-last-names/)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: CJScalia on April 21, 2010, 06:58:07 PM
@stareindecisis, you sound just like my boyfriend; Thanks so much for being honest when the easiest thing to do is stick to a PC response. That goes for everyone, actually.

There's a difference between being politically correct and not living in 1955. I know that makes me sound like an ass, but then again, this is why I tend to try to avoid the south ;)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: CJScalia on April 26, 2010, 12:37:26 PM
I'm happy my wife took my name.  I didn't really consider the overall consequences to society, but it is nice for my immediate family to all have the same last name.

Yes, and any concern she has for wanting to still be associated with her immediate family is of course of no concern at all.

In the words of the great Blackstone; "By marriage the husband and wife are one person in law; that is the very being or legal existence of the woman is suspended during the marriage, or at least is incorporated or consolidated into that of the husband".

It's really romantic isn't it?

(and yes, I realize this topic has been dead for a few days.)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 26, 2010, 03:57:26 PM
who even needs to dude....yeah you know what i mean.... :-*
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Sheshe on April 26, 2010, 04:27:27 PM
This is just another way for men to try and control everything.  As women we give in entirely to easy. Guys tend to stick to their guns, and girls just try and keep everyone happy.  Why don't you ask him to take your name? I honestly don't see any reason why this would be the breaking point for any relationship though.  If it's something that you are serious about, I just believe tht they guy should respect your wishes.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 26, 2010, 07:05:40 PM
Yeah, don't let you dad walk you down the isle either, that's hitler crap! Don't let the chaplain make you say "to obey and cherrish"-slavery! Don't let him say "till death do you part" either, thats morbid, who thinks of that goolish stuff when there's babymakeing to do that night?


This is just another way for men to try and control everything.  As women we give in entirely to easy. Guys tend to stick to their guns, and girls just try and keep everyone happy.  Why don't you ask him to take your name? I honestly don't see any reason why this would be the breaking point for any relationship though.  If it's something that you are serious about, I just believe tht they guy should respect your wishes.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on April 26, 2010, 09:05:30 PM
I'm not a guy but I want to give my two cents. 

I am married and I kept my own last name.  My husband was really cool about it and even offered to take MY last name. 

If he doesn't love you enough to let you keep your name do you think he will love you enough to get you through years and years of marriage?   

Any guy who needs a woman to change her name for his peace of mind is too insecure, insensitive and stupid to make a good husband any way.

As to the kid issue, you can always do what my aunt did and alternate last names.  It seems to work well for them.   
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 26, 2010, 09:51:05 PM
Yeah, your kids siblings names being different dosn't scream trailor park at all......that couldn't possibly complicate things....

I'm not a guy but I want to give my two cents. 

I am married and I kept my own last name.  My husband was really cool about it and even offered to take MY last name. 

If he doesn't love you enough to let you keep your name do you think he will love you enough to get you through years and years of marriage?   

Any guy who needs a woman to change her name for his peace of mind is too insecure, insensitive and stupid to make a good husband any way.

As to the kid issue, you can always do what my aunt did and alternate last names.  It seems to work well for them.   
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 26, 2010, 09:52:56 PM
In the service woman tended to keep it(but not all) just to make it easier, that being said


You do realise that you still have your daddies last name right? Your still stamped with a dudes name. You want to be all "free" do what the slaves did, make your own. "barbi X" or whatever....
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mbw on April 27, 2010, 01:36:20 PM
Yeah, your kids siblings names being different dosn't scream trailor park at all......that couldn't possibly complicate things....  

Yeah, because people from cultures throughout the world who don't use patriliny to trace descent always live in trailer parks.  ::)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: SASS on April 27, 2010, 05:23:36 PM
I didn't change my last name when I got married and many of my friends who are married have not either.  I just don't really see the point, I mean it is my name!  My husband didn't care one way or the other about it.  His family was a different story, at first, but I don't think they really care either. I think they just thought it was weird. I just couldn't imagine dating a guy that would actually attach importance to this, so I guess I have met my match.  :)

The only thing my husband cared about was whether the kids would get his name.  That was important to him because it is just his brother and he who carry on the name.  Given that I don't actually care about my name being carried on, or whether I have kids at all, the kids having his name doesn't matter to me.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 27, 2010, 06:39:46 PM
you better decide whether of not you want kids before you decide to name them. Otherwise it's like argueing what to name the aliens when they land on 2012.  ::)

I didn't change my last name when I got married and many of my friends who are married have not either.  I just don't really see the point, I mean it is my name!  My husband didn't care one way or the other about it.  His family was a different story, at first, but I don't think they really care either. I think they just thought it was weird. I just couldn't imagine dating a guy that would actually attach importance to this, so I guess I have met my match.  :)

The only thing my husband cared about was whether the kids would get his name.  That was important to him because it is just his brother and he who carry on the name.  Given that I don't actually care about my name being carried on, or whether I have kids at all, the kids having his name doesn't matter to me.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on April 27, 2010, 10:11:51 PM
Actually, obviously doesn't since both of them went to ivy league schools and one of them is now a professor of math. at Emory University.

Why are you so concerned about being from a trailer park anyway?  If you are smart, clever and hardworking no one is going to think there is anything wrong with you just because of your last name. 

How does the name complicate things?

And further more WHY should the woman take the man's name.  If you are so worried about inconsistency in the last name why don't you take your wife's name?  Women have sacrificed enough in the name of consistency.  I think it is time the men sacrifice for awhile   
Yeah, your kids siblings names being different dosn't scream trailor park at all......that couldn't possibly complicate things....

I'm not a guy but I want to give my two cents. 

I am married and I kept my own last name.  My husband was really cool about it and even offered to take MY last name. 

If he doesn't love you enough to let you keep your name do you think he will love you enough to get you through years and years of marriage?   

Any guy who needs a woman to change her name for his peace of mind is too insecure, insensitive and stupid to make a good husband any way.

As to the kid issue, you can always do what my aunt did and alternate last names.  It seems to work well for them.   
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 28, 2010, 08:39:04 AM
Yeah, ok.....how about reperations to men for all the free food and shelter all these millenia then eh?  :D
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: smm on April 28, 2010, 11:03:34 AM
my husband when were just married and younger was insistant that i change my last name (and i did).  now he says he completely doesn't care (esp if the children have his last name with no hyphens)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: CJScalia on April 28, 2010, 11:14:23 AM
my husband when were just married and younger was insistant that i change my last name (and i did).  now he says he completely doesn't care (esp if the children have his last name with no hyphens)

So he no longer loves you, but he still likes having his mark made on the children. ;)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 28, 2010, 12:37:31 PM
Of course he "dosnt care" its done and over with. I "no longer care" what my undergrad teachers do, so what?  Unless you plan to change it back now, its a theory.... :P

my husband when were just married and younger was insistant that i change my last name (and i did).  now he says he completely doesn't care (esp if the children have his last name with no hyphens)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Luxhx77 on April 28, 2010, 12:50:19 PM
Personally, I would not be interested in a woman who felt like she needed to keep her last name.  I think that displays too much type-A behavior and there is only room for one type A in a relationship(I being the other type A).  But I would support a couple who chose to go with the woman's last name.  

Really, there should be a new rule made that isnt gender specific. I propose, Whoever is the main breadwinner in the relationship should use their name.  So if you are a woman, and want to keep your last name- go on the search for a trophy stay at home type man (or school teacher)...  then everything is solved

But I absolutely LOATH people who hyphenate their names because they can't figure out what to do.  Because of their lack of ability to communicate effectively before marriage and make a decision they make the GENERAL PUBLIC suffer by having us pronounce extremely long last names.  It is not only inefficient, but also pretentious.  What makes you feel like you are so important that people need to garbble out MULTIPLE last names to greet you formally.  And then the children being at school, having to explain why mommy and daddy have different names-  the whole thing is a mess.

Just choose a name (for the entire family), and stick to it!
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 28, 2010, 12:52:10 PM
Expect a whole bunch of self rightous estragin filled responces to that one.....
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: CJScalia on April 28, 2010, 07:06:50 PM
Personally, I would not be interested in a woman who felt like she needed to keep her last name.  I think that displays too much type-A behavior and there is only room for one type A in a relationship(I being the other type A).  But I would support a couple who chose to go with the woman's last name.

So, in short; You = more important than her.

Which is sort of the point I've been trying to make all the way through this thread.

Quote
But I absolutely LOATH people who hyphenate their names because they can't figure out what to do.  Because of their lack of ability to communicate effectively before marriage and make a decision they make the GENERAL PUBLIC suffer by having us pronounce extremely long last names.

Yeah, I loath people who treat both parties in a relationship as equals. How f-ing outrageous. And yeah, it's so difficult to pronounce words longer than 7 letters, I don't understand how this could ever work.

Quote
It is not only inefficient, but also pretentious.  What makes you feel like you are so important that people need to garbble out MULTIPLE last names to greet you formally.  And then the children being at school, having to explain why mommy and daddy have different names-  the whole thing is a mess.

Maybe in 1940 they did. Nowadays, nobody gives a *&^%. Nobody even gives a *&^% if you're a kid and you have two daddies.

At least not in the part of the country that believes in evolution. Not sure about your local area.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on April 28, 2010, 09:10:52 PM
Gosh! You say that like its a bad thing! (I assume you meant estrogen)
Expect a whole bunch of self rightous estragin filled responces to that one.....
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 28, 2010, 09:36:30 PM
I'm not a vagina doctor, so its just toxic waste to me.

Gosh! You say that like its a bad thing! (I assume you meant estrogen)
Expect a whole bunch of self rightous estragin filled responces to that one.....
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on April 28, 2010, 09:36:56 PM
    I agree that hyphenated names are awkward.  I also dislike them because it places the issue of picking a name on the next generation.  What happens when someone named "Brown-Stuber" marries a "Anderson-Leif"?  Do they become "Brown-Stuber-Anderson-Leif"?  It's impractical!
    I do not think it is very common for there to be a single breadwinner in families anymore.  Plus, you never know who will turn out to be the breadwinner.  My grandpa was the breadwinner for years and then he was unable to work anymore and my grandmother became the breadwinner.  Its simply not possibly to predict the economic contributions each partner will make to the relationship ahead of time.
    The decision of names and naming must be decided on a case by case basis based on the desires of preferences of those involved.  It turned out in my situation my husbands last name sounds AWFUL with my first name...I mean REALLY bad.  If his last name sounded good with my first name I might have taken it.  I'm not saying that in principle women ought to keep their maiden names, just that if she wants to keep her maiden name, he should respect that.    
Personally, I would not be interested in a woman who felt like she needed to keep her last name.  I think that displays too much type-A behavior and there is only room for one type A in a relationship(I being the other type A).  But I would support a couple who chose to go with the woman's last name.  

Really, there should be a new rule made that isnt gender specific. I propose, Whoever is the main breadwinner in the relationship should use their name.  So if you are a woman, and want to keep your last name- go on the search for a trophy stay at home type man (or school teacher)...  then everything is solved

But I absolutely LOATH people who hyphenate their names because they can't figure out what to do.  Because of their lack of ability to communicate effectively before marriage and make a decision they make the GENERAL PUBLIC suffer by having us pronounce extremely long last names.  It is not only inefficient, but also pretentious.  What makes you feel like you are so important that people need to garbble out MULTIPLE last names to greet you formally.  And then the children being at school, having to explain why mommy and daddy have different names-  the whole thing is a mess.

Just choose a name (for the entire family), and stick to it!
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: the white rabbit on April 28, 2010, 10:14:07 PM
Personally, I would not be interested in a woman who felt like she needed to keep her last name.  

You're in luck: such a woman would probably not be interested in you either.  ;)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 28, 2010, 11:08:43 PM
screw it, lets all just go lezbo! You with me ladies!.... :-*
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: CJScalia on April 29, 2010, 12:51:31 AM
What the @#!* is with you people and bread anyway.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 29, 2010, 10:27:01 AM
don't know about "bread" but yeast can be suck a pain in the .......  :-\

What the @#!* is with you people and bread anyway.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Trivium on May 08, 2010, 05:03:10 AM
I wouldn't even get to the point where I was considering marriage with a woman who didn't want to take my last name. I'm not saying that we would even discuss it, I'm just saying that the type of woman that wouldn't take my last name or would try to make me hyphenate mine is not the type of girl I would end up with.

I get the whole equality thing, but IMO that's just making something way more out of it than it is. This is just the way it's always been done.

I wouldn't, however, have a problem with her keeping her own name. The kids would just be taking my name.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 08, 2010, 01:40:52 PM
yes since its the man, who legally decides the name of the kids....you really don't know how that works do you?

I wouldn't even get to the point where I was considering marriage with a woman who didn't want to take my last name. I'm not saying that we would even discuss it, I'm just saying that the type of woman that wouldn't take my last name or would try to make me hyphenate mine is not the type of girl I would end up with.

I get the whole equality thing, but IMO that's just making something way more out of it than it is. This is just the way it's always been done.

I wouldn't, however, have a problem with her keeping her own name. The kids would just be taking my name.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 08, 2010, 01:42:04 PM
I can think of several,

bittch,kunt,dikeintraining.......but he probally just meant "princess angel".


I wouldn't even get to the point where I was considering marriage with a woman who didn't want to take my last name. I'm not saying that we would even discuss it, I'm just saying that the type of woman that wouldn't take my last name or would try to make me hyphenate mine is not the type of girl I would end up with.

I get the whole equality thing, but IMO that's just making something way more out of it than it is. This is just the way it's always been done.

I wouldn't, however, have a problem with her keeping her own name. The kids would just be taking my name.

Exactly what is "the type of woman" who wouldn't take your last name? Feel free to use lots of adjectives.

This mindset just absolutely kills me. Let's examine the words you used: "wouldn't take" and "would try to make me hyphenate mine".

Not "wouldn't want to take" but "wouldn't take" implying that you're giving it, no matter what she wants, and not only has she got no choice in the matter, even if she did her choice means nothing. And "would try to make me hyphenate mine" means a level of force coming from her, that you're perfectly free to resist. It's like there's no discussion in the matter, no exchange of ideas, and the outcome is set simply because you say it is. Let me get this straight: you want a woman who would be perfectly happy being steamrolled into whatever you want, and who has no ideas or desires of her own? Am I off-base on that? Because I certainly hope that I am. I really hope that people today have grown beyond that kind of foolishness.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Trivium on May 11, 2010, 05:21:35 AM
I wouldn't even get to the point where I was considering marriage with a woman who didn't want to take my last name. I'm not saying that we would even discuss it, I'm just saying that the type of woman that wouldn't take my last name or would try to make me hyphenate mine is not the type of girl I would end up with.

I get the whole equality thing, but IMO that's just making something way more out of it than it is. This is just the way it's always been done.

I wouldn't, however, have a problem with her keeping her own name. The kids would just be taking my name.

Exactly what is "the type of woman" who wouldn't take your last name? Feel free to use lots of adjectives.

This mindset just absolutely kills me. Let's examine the words you used: "wouldn't take" and "would try to make me hyphenate mine".

Not "wouldn't want to take" but "wouldn't take" implying that you're giving it, no matter what she wants, and not only has she got no choice in the matter, even if she did her choice means nothing. And "would try to make me hyphenate mine" means a level of force coming from her, that you're perfectly free to resist. It's like there's no discussion in the matter, no exchange of ideas, and the outcome is set simply because you say it is. Let me get this straight: you want a woman who would be perfectly happy being steamrolled into whatever you want, and who has no ideas or desires of her own? Am I off-base on that? Because I certainly hope that I am. I really hope that people today have grown beyond that kind of foolishness.

I primarily meant someone who was laid back. My current GF is laid back and doesn't care about this type of thing and that's one of the reasons she's still my girlfriend. Also note that I ultimately said she could keep her own name if she wanted to, I just want my kids to have my name. My primary problem is that I think it's selfish for the parents to give their kids hyphenated names or have different names than them.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mbw on May 11, 2010, 05:30:24 AM

I primarily meant someone who was laid back. My current GF is laid back and doesn't care about this type of thing and that's one of the reasons she's still my girlfriend. Also note that I ultimately said she could keep her own name if she wanted to, I just want my kids to have my name. My primary problem is that I think it's selfish for the parents to give their kids hyphenated names or have different names than them.

Why bother hyphenating the kids' names?  My children have my name -- my spouse's name is hyphenated.  Why is your name more worthy than hers?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 11, 2010, 05:51:11 PM
I will ask you the same question, why is your name "more important" than your wifes? Clearly you think that way for multiple reasons.
1) You made sure your kids had yours and not hers(why?)
2) You made her attach yours to  hers and not just leave it alone(why?)
3) You didnt mention adding hers to yours(why?)



I primarily meant someone who was laid back. My current GF is laid back and doesn't care about this type of thing and that's one of the reasons she's still my girlfriend. Also note that I ultimately said she could keep her own name if she wanted to, I just want my kids to have my name. My primary problem is that I think it's selfish for the parents to give their kids hyphenated names or have different names than them.

Why bother hyphenating the kids' names?  My children have my name -- my spouse's name is hyphenated.  Why is your name more worthy than hers?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mbw on May 12, 2010, 09:24:05 PM
I will ask you the same question, why is your name "more important" than your wifes? Clearly you think that way for multiple reasons.
1) You made sure your kids had yours and not hers(why?)
2) You made her attach yours to  hers and not just leave it alone(why?)
3) You didnt mention adding hers to yours(why?)



I primarily meant someone who was laid back. My current GF is laid back and doesn't care about this type of thing and that's one of the reasons she's still my girlfriend. Also note that I ultimately said she could keep her own name if she wanted to, I just want my kids to have my name. My primary problem is that I think it's selfish for the parents to give their kids hyphenated names or have different names than them.

Why bother hyphenating the kids' names?  My children have my name -- my spouse's name is hyphenated.  Why is your name more worthy than hers?

My spouse is biologically male, I'm biologically female, so in most states in the US, I'm designated as the wife.  Thus, the kids have the "wife's" name.  Did I clear that up, or were you addressing Trivium... hard to tell with your strange formatting and lack of specificity.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 12, 2010, 09:56:40 PM
Are you trying to tell me that your kids dont have your husbands name,but the guy hypenated with your name? Did you hypeate with his?

I will ask you the same question, why is your name "more important" than your wifes? Clearly you think that way for multiple reasons.
1) You made sure your kids had yours and not hers(why?)
2) You made her attach yours to  hers and not just leave it alone(why?)
3) You didnt mention adding hers to yours(why?)



I primarily meant someone who was laid back. My current GF is laid back and doesn't care about this type of thing and that's one of the reasons she's still my girlfriend. Also note that I ultimately said she could keep her own name if she wanted to, I just want my kids to have my name. My primary problem is that I think it's selfish for the parents to give their kids hyphenated names or have different names than them.

Why bother hyphenating the kids' names?  My children have my name -- my spouse's name is hyphenated.  Why is your name more worthy than hers?

My spouse is biologically male, I'm biologically female, so in most states in the US, I'm designated as the wife.  Thus, the kids have the "wife's" name.  Did I clear that up, or were you addressing Trivium... hard to tell with your strange formatting and lack of specificity.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mbw on May 13, 2010, 06:41:07 AM
Are you trying to tell me that your kids dont have your husbands name,but the guy hypenated with your name? Did you hypeate with his?

1) yes, yes. 2) no.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 13, 2010, 09:49:40 AM
Either you are just lieing to sound funny, or your husband is the saddest sack of shitt on the planet, either way is fine with me. What is he  a unic?



Are you trying to tell me that your kids dont have your husbands name,but the guy hypenated with your name? Did you hypeate with his?

1) yes, yes. 2) no.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mbw on May 13, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
Either you are just lieing to sound funny, or your husband is the saddest sack of shitt on the planet, either way is fine with me. What is he  a unic?


I suspect that guys with balls, or better yet, actual self-worth, are generally the ones who don't need to parade their wives and children around as possessions to enhance their otherwise lacking personal and professional value.  Google lists over 9000 unique entries on my spouse, and that was after he took my name (20 years into his career.)  And after five kids, the last spawned at age 50, I think eunuch is probably out of the realm of possibility.  ::)

I like my name, I carried and birthed the kids, and my spouse and I both come from non-western matri-matri cultures.  It's really your problem you expect the real world to conform to your little corner of dying patriarchy. 
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 13, 2010, 11:26:48 PM
Yes, and the only reason Obama ran for prez is because he's a scared little boys seeking approval..... :'(



Either you are just lieing to sound funny, or your husband is the saddest sack of shitt on the planet, either way is fine with me. What is he  a unic?


I suspect that guys with balls, or better yet, actual self-worth, are generally the ones who don't need to parade their wives and children around as possessions to enhance their otherwise lacking personal and professional value.  Google lists over 9000 unique entries on my spouse, and that was after he took my name (20 years into his career.)  And after five kids, the last spawned at age 50, I think eunuch is probably out of the realm of possibility.  ::)

I like my name, I carried and birthed the kids, and my spouse and I both come from non-western matri-matri cultures.  It's really your problem you expect the real world to conform to your little corner of dying patriarchy. 
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 13, 2010, 11:29:16 PM
So if I (do the societal norm) and have my kids and spouse take my name, its bad,

but if you(against societal norm) do it, its good.........interesting, what does that really say?

Also, you seem claim your hubbie is only googlable now due to your name, do you imply that he'd be worthless without your name stapled to his own? Is he that weak without you according to you? What does that really say?

 ::)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: GovLaw on May 17, 2010, 11:49:08 AM
Iím sorry, but itís amazing to me how many weak men with low self esteem inhabit this board!  Of course thereís no reason for a manís wife to take his name, unless heís so insecure that it makes him feel better. 

But in that case I would advise not marrying him at all Ė youíre going to end up with problems based upon that very insecurity.

I would assume that most women want a man, not a frightened little boy.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on May 23, 2010, 05:22:13 PM
CHEERS!!!!!!!
A man who takes his wife's name is strong enough to stand up to convention and travel the road less traveled.  That takes REAL courage!  My husband didn't take my name (I'm female) but I am totally for men doing this.  I see no reason why not, especially if your wife is planning on supporting you.  Also I strongly feel that children ought to have their mother's last name.  The mom put in the grunt work, all the father did was get laid.  She deserves the credit no?

Iím sorry, but itís amazing to me how many weak men with low self esteem inhabit this board!  Of course thereís no reason for a manís wife to take his name, unless heís so insecure that it makes him feel better. 

But in that case I would advise not marrying him at all Ė youíre going to end up with problems based upon that very insecurity.

I would assume that most women want a man, not a frightened little boy.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Freak on June 02, 2010, 10:37:34 PM
This thread further confirms my decision to marry an Asian foreign woman. American women generally show too little respect to their husbands. In case people reading this don't know, men need respect in a relationship more than love. Women need love more than respect. Taking the man's name is a sign of respect. My fiancee shows respect to me in an incredible number of ways including insisting on cooking, cleaning and doing laundry - by hand - plus never complaining about my bad habits and instead praising me to others. Further, she offered to take my name despite the fact that only 4 people on the entire planet have her last name.

After considering this, I've decided that she should keep her name and simply add my name at the end. Yes, she might have a long name, but she's considering dropping her middle names (she has four names) so that she has only three names - 1st name (actually one of her middle names), her last name, and my name with no hyphens.  Our children will have 3 names - 1st name, her name, my name & no hyphens.

She showed me respect by offering to take my name when the topic arose and I showed love by proposing a compromise that satisfied both of us. I also traveled almost exactly half-way around the world (i.e. as far as one can go) and quit my job to be with her while we await a VISA.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cmd758 on June 03, 2010, 01:47:55 AM
This thread further confirms my decision to marry an Asian foreign woman. American women generally show too little respect to their husbands. In case people reading this don't know, men need respect in a relationship more than love. Women need love more than respect. Taking the man's name is a sign of respect. My fiancee shows respect to me in an incredible number of ways including insisting on cooking, cleaning and doing laundry - by hand - plus never complaining about my bad habits and instead praising me to others. Further, she offered to take my name despite the fact that only 4 people on the entire planet have her last name.

After considering this, I've decided that she should keep her name and simply add my name at the end. Yes, she might have a long name, but she's considering dropping her middle names (she has four names) so that she has only three names - 1st name (actually one of her middle names), her last name, and my name with no hyphens.  Our children will have 3 names - 1st name, her name, my name & no hyphens.

She showed me respect by offering to take my name when the topic arose and I showed love by proposing a compromise that satisfied both of us. I also traveled almost exactly half-way around the world (i.e. as far as one can go) and quit my job to be with her while we await a VISA.

Yes, it is so respectful of her to agree to be a maid, cook, nanny, and hooker for the price of one. Why can't you clean your own laundry by hand or with the washing machine? Can't you learn to cook? It isn't difficult.  Do you want a partner or a domestic slave? I am not saying that people don't play different roles in a partnership: maybe one works and the other does a lot of the domestic tasks or both work and share responsibilities- but you shouldn't expect it or feel disrespected if she doesn't want to do all of the things your mommy used to do for you. I resent, as a woman, your entire post. There are also a lot of men (not saying most by any means) that show disrespect for their wives  in far worse ways than in the way you implied women disrespect their husbands (I am guessing you meant disrespect by refusing to do housework or not take last names). Days of servitude in American marriages are over- you're correct. And perhaps (let me just guess here), your wife, living in her current country (which I only know is in Asia), finds you (and this is the truly sad part) to be her best option at a decent life because her country isn't as evolved as America. I guess that's why they have mail-order brides.

PS. A lot of women like to cook or do laundry and help their man; but it shouldn't be all the time (even if she is a homemaker because of children) and it shouldn't be expected. Yes, full-time employment is tough, but you gotta do your chores as mom says!

PPS. Wow, you're a really modern man to have decided for her about her last name.

Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 03, 2010, 07:47:47 AM
case in point, eh?  ::)

This thread further confirms my decision to marry an Asian foreign woman. American women generally show too little respect to their husbands. In case people reading this don't know, men need respect in a relationship more than love. Women need love more than respect. Taking the man's name is a sign of respect. My fiancee shows respect to me in an incredible number of ways including insisting on cooking, cleaning and doing laundry - by hand - plus never complaining about my bad habits and instead praising me to others. Further, she offered to take my name despite the fact that only 4 people on the entire planet have her last name.

After considering this, I've decided that she should keep her name and simply add my name at the end. Yes, she might have a long name, but she's considering dropping her middle names (she has four names) so that she has only three names - 1st name (actually one of her middle names), her last name, and my name with no hyphens.  Our children will have 3 names - 1st name, her name, my name & no hyphens.

She showed me respect by offering to take my name when the topic arose and I showed love by proposing a compromise that satisfied both of us. I also traveled almost exactly half-way around the world (i.e. as far as one can go) and quit my job to be with her while we await a VISA.

Yes, it is so respectful of her to agree to be a maid, cook, nanny, and hooker for the price of one. Why can't you clean your own laundry by hand or with the washing machine? Can't you learn to cook? It isn't difficult.  Do you want a partner or a domestic slave? I am not saying that people don't play different roles in a partnership: maybe one works and the other does a lot of the domestic tasks or both work and share responsibilities- but you shouldn't expect it or feel disrespected if she doesn't want to do all of the things your mommy used to do for you. I resent, as a woman, your entire post. There are also a lot of men (not saying most by any means) that show disrespect for their wives  in far worse ways than in the way you implied women disrespect their husbands (I am guessing you meant disrespect by refusing to do housework or not take last names). Days of servitude in American marriages are over- you're correct. And perhaps (let me just guess here), your wife, living in her current country (which I only know is in Asia), finds you (and this is the truly sad part) to be her best option at a decent life because her country isn't as evolved as America. I guess that's why they have mail-order brides.

PS. A lot of women like to cook or do laundry and help their man; but it shouldn't be all the time (even if she is a homemaker because of children) and it shouldn't be expected. Yes, full-time employment is tough, but you gotta do your chores as mom says!

PPS. Wow, you're a really modern man to have decided for her about her last name.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Freak on June 04, 2010, 11:03:43 PM
This thread further confirms my decision to marry an Asian foreign woman. American women generally show too little respect to their husbands. In case people reading this don't know, men need respect in a relationship more than love. Women need love more than respect. Taking the man's name is a sign of respect. My fiancee shows respect to me in an incredible number of ways including insisting on cooking, cleaning and doing laundry - by hand - plus never complaining about my bad habits and instead praising me to others. Further, she offered to take my name despite the fact that only 4 people on the entire planet have her last name.

After considering this, I've decided that she should keep her name and simply add my name at the end. Yes, she might have a long name, but she's considering dropping her middle names (she has four names) so that she has only three names - 1st name (actually one of her middle names), her last name, and my name with no hyphens.  Our children will have 3 names - 1st name, her name, my name & no hyphens.

She showed me respect by offering to take my name when the topic arose and I showed love by proposing a compromise that satisfied both of us. I also traveled almost exactly half-way around the world (i.e. as far as one can go) and quit my job to be with her while we await a VISA.

Yes, it is so respectful of her to agree to be a maid, cook, nanny, and hooker for the price of one. Why can't you clean your own laundry by hand or with the washing machine? Can't you learn to cook? It isn't difficult.  Do you want a partner or a domestic slave? I am not saying that people don't play different roles in a partnership: maybe one works and the other does a lot of the domestic tasks or both work and share responsibilities- but you shouldn't expect it or feel disrespected if she doesn't want to do all of the things your mommy used to do for you. I resent, as a woman, your entire post. There are also a lot of men (not saying most by any means) that show disrespect for their wives  in far worse ways than in the way you implied women disrespect their husbands (I am guessing you meant disrespect by refusing to do housework or not take last names). Days of servitude in American marriages are over- you're correct. And perhaps (let me just guess here), your wife, living in her current country (which I only know is in Asia), finds you (and this is the truly sad part) to be her best option at a decent life because her country isn't as evolved as America. I guess that's why they have mail-order brides.

PS. A lot of women like to cook or do laundry and help their man; but it shouldn't be all the time (even if she is a homemaker because of children) and it shouldn't be expected. Yes, full-time employment is tough, but you gotta do your chores as mom says!

PPS. Wow, you're a really modern man to have decided for her about her last name.

You just called my fiancee a hooker! For your information, I showed her this and she's deeply offended by what you wrote. You are exactly what I'd expect from the typical American woman - selfish. Maybe that's why America has a 50% divorce rate or maybe it's "modern men". She on the other hand has an L.L.B. from the Univ. of London and is fluent in 4 languages with a passing knowledge of several more. We met in Chicago while she was here on another VISA. She's incredible and I love her more than words can express. She chose to be with me because of how I listen to her and treat her with love.

I'll have you know that I've worked since age 11 (I'm 31 now), paid for all my major expenses (housing, cars, education etc.), done my own laundry since 11 and my Mom rarely cooks except on special occasions (although she did due to money when we were young). She's the best Mom any man could want - she home schooled her 3 children until high school (part-time home school). Clearly better than your Mom who failed to teach you respect. Have you paid for all your cars (cash), insurance (cash), college (cash) and law school (loan paid off), and house ($50k loan remains) by yourself? Plus have enough money saved to take over a year off work and support 2 people with no money from anybody else? I highly doubt it. (paid-off Nov. 2010)

As for her doing everything, as I wrote - she insists! Although sometimes she'll relent and let me help. I've done those things for myself most of my life. She feels it's disrespectful for the man to do those things. And yes, she intends to be a homemaker. Our children will know two cultures, speak several languages, and have excellent education.

I won't reply to any further posts by you, but I couldn't let your vile spew of vomit go unwashed.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cmd758 on June 04, 2010, 11:49:04 PM
If you could read, you would realize how ridiculously stupid your post that I responded to was and know that my opening statement in my response was a comment about your sexist worldview and that I was not actually calling your wife/fiance/whatever a hooker. Did you read what you wrote? You implied that American women are "disrespectful" to their husbands these days because they were moving away from traditional roles such as taking last names. I am not going to argue about whether women should or shouldn't take names, but they certainly shouldn't be thought of "disrespectful" and thus, lesser because of it. You then went on to say how your woman is so wonderful because she slaves away for you and handwashes your clothes, again implying anything less or non-traditional would therefore be disrespectful. Further, you posted this on a discussion board for people who are either lawyers or want to become lawyers. Not all of them are men. What would you think would happen? I don't know any women who went or are going to law school to sit at home.

You just now responded with a bunch of justifications for what you said that you didn't bother to share in the first place (e.g. you do actually do some housework) because you know how sexist you were in your original post. I am not sure if you looked at my other posts today on different threads, but right before you responded I happened to ask a question where I mentioned my mother. I will neither assume that you did or did not read my post, but it is funny how you used my mother to get at me. I could get very angry. That is how it makes me feel. However, I realize my passions are high (forget the discussion about women for a moment) and I will only say that it was an extremely low blow and people (like my mother) tend to pass down their greatest teachings when they are dying. So, so much for your argument that my mother is no good. I will not say any more about it because I don't care what you think, but next time you want to use someone's mother to insult them, just know that it could just happen that that person's mother is terminally ill and you will feel like the scum of the earth when your parents pass away or are ill.

Also, I am a naturalized citizen. I am European, but I am proud to be English, Portuguese, and now American. I am also proud to be an American WOMAN and a feminist. I am most proud to be my mother's daughter, without whom, I would not have succeeded in life and would not be so strong. Oh- and when I turn 31 in 5 1/2 years, you will be the first to know if I accomplished all the financial landmarks that you have claimed to have completed by that age. Money is really the true measure of a person's value, of course.

Here's a tip: if you don't want people responding to your sexist remarks with something that is going to make you angry, perhaps you shouldn't be sexist or write something that could be interpreted as sexist.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cmd758 on June 05, 2010, 12:08:15 AM
One last thing, sweetheart, if you think you exhibited "respect" in anything you said back to me or have implied about women, you need to go look up the word in the dictionary.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 05, 2010, 08:29:19 AM
Aw yes, the "last word" knowing that the other won't respond and saying stuff that in no way counters his statements. Awsome.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Sephiroth on June 05, 2010, 10:20:16 AM
I wouldn't care.  In fact, I'd prefer she keep her last name!  That makes her SEXIER!

If she changes it I think she's trying too hard to be ME! lol

Keep your last name and be confident in who you are!  SH**!

But its up to her of course. 

*A husband taking his wife's last name?  That is unprecedented.  Has anyone ever even done this?  I think not...
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: the white rabbit on June 05, 2010, 10:30:35 AM
In case people reading this don't know, men need respect in a relationship more than love.

Perhaps the amount of respect a man needs from a relationship varies depending on how much respect he gets elsewhere.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Sephiroth on June 05, 2010, 11:09:02 AM
Do people in the US take the Woman's name typically?  It seems to be a new "21st Century" thing that  ought to be set in motion now...much like women didn't have the right to vote back then, now they do, and now the new gig is dudes should take their wives' last names.  Haha.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cmd758 on June 05, 2010, 05:16:02 PM
Joke, right, numitor?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cmd758 on June 05, 2010, 07:07:03 PM
Aw yes, the "last word" knowing that the other won't respond and saying stuff that in no way counters his statements. Awsome.

Hey, I don't care whether he responds or not. When he talked about my mother, what would I have to say to a person like that besides the fact he is pathetic for dragging my mother into it? Bite me, Numitor. Why do you follow me around and respond to every single one of my posts anyway?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cmd758 on June 05, 2010, 07:18:40 PM
Also, what do you call saying "oh I won't respond whatever you say." Wow, he really isn't trying to have the last word, is he? Furthermore, all he said was "American women are disrespectful" and "my mom is better than yours" and "I am awesome because I have paid off all my sh** by age 31." That's just the best line of argumentation about why women should continued to be oppressed that I have ever heard. Almost as good as your last post on this thread, Numitor. It is almost as genius as your plan for world peace.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 05, 2010, 07:42:38 PM
Yes, because you are that important that anyone would care enough to "follow you around" see you got banned or ran away. Either way, bye bye.  :'(
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mac n cheese on June 22, 2010, 06:54:23 PM
That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on June 22, 2010, 07:24:09 PM
Um..I don't really see your point.  Tons of people get married and not everyone has rings or ceremonies.  Take me for example, I kept my maiden name when I was married but I also never got a diamond engagement ring and I did not have a wedding with a fancy dress and a string quartet.

 The ceremony of marriage doesn't interest me particularly.  I understand that some women are into those things but there are women out there who would trade the traditional trappings of marriage just to keep their maiden name.  Plus I don't really see your point because "traditionally" the brides family is supposed to pay for the wedding, all the man has to pay for is the engagement ring and engagement rings can be cheap or super expensive depending on HIS taste.  So the bride loses her name and puts her family in debt to pay for the wedding and you are talking about symbolism and unity.  It seems to me that "traditionally" men are the greater beneficiaries of marriage so stop complaining about what men have to sacrifice for marriage and respect women enough to see that we are not just silly romantic fools but rational creatures capable of sound financial and emotional judgement.   
That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mac n cheese on June 22, 2010, 07:55:05 PM
Um..I don't really see your point.  Tons of people get married and not everyone has rings or ceremonies.  Take me for example, I kept my maiden name when I was married but I also never got a diamond engagement ring and I did not have a wedding with a fancy dress and a string quartet.

 The ceremony of marriage doesn't interest me particularly.  I understand that some women are into those things but there are women out there who would trade the traditional trappings of marriage just to keep their maiden name.  Plus I don't really see your point because "traditionally" the brides family is supposed to pay for the wedding, all the man has to pay for is the engagement ring and engagement rings can be cheap or super expensive depending on HIS taste.  So the bride loses her name and puts her family in debt to pay for the wedding and you are talking about symbolism and unity.  It seems to me that "traditionally" men are the greater beneficiaries of marriage so stop complaining about what men have to sacrifice for marriage and respect women enough to see that we are not just silly romantic fools but rational creatures capable of sound financial and emotional judgement.   
That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese

You don't see the real issue here. You'd only understand my point if you could somehow understand that somethings are important to a potential spouse and when these things are disregarded by the fiance, it hurts. So, hypothetically speaking, what if a diamond ring and a fancy dress with a quartet string was important to YOU? If you didn't get those things, you'd be disappointed and therefore hurt. Furthermore, it's irrelevant to mention whether or not the groom or the bride is financially responsible for the wedding. (doesn't really matter who pays the bill) If the bride expects it and doesn't get it, she will be a bridezilla! Period.More importantly in this issue, is its IMORTANCE to either person. Obviously, if two people could care less about the jewelry, then it is not an issue - but thats not what we are talking about. Were talking about a situation in which one person values something and deems it important for the relationship, but the other does not.

MaCNCheese



Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 22, 2010, 09:37:47 PM
If your own independence is so important why get married? Why go through a ceremony that only means more paperwork and legal drama if you ever want to split? Why not just live together and leave it at that?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: the white rabbit on June 23, 2010, 03:00:34 AM
That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese

If unity and togetherness is what it's supposed to symbolize, is there any good argument reason why the man shouldn't take his wife's last name?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 23, 2010, 04:28:19 AM
old argument. why not just skip the marriage?

That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese

If unity and togetherness is what it's supposed to symbolize, is there any good argument reason why the man shouldn't take his wife's last name?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mac n cheese on June 23, 2010, 07:02:48 AM
That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese

If unity and togetherness is what it's supposed to symbolize, is there any good argument reason why the man shouldn't take his wife's last name?



No.  I don't have a good argument against the man changing his last name. However, image is important to some people and I know that if one of my friends told me that he was going to change HIS last name, well, lets just say he probably wouldn't get a call for the annual superbowl party. This is soooo ridiculous. I can't believe its come to this.......  If this is how you really feel then here are my suggestions:

1.  Find a girlie man, metrosexual, or or man femminist that will agree with you. It would make your life easier.
2. Skip the marriage or
3. Get a sex change

How would you feel if a guy asked you to marry him under this condition:
 You are not ALLOWED to take his last name and he states that he will not even entertain taking your last name. This changes things up a tad bit now doesn't it.  You no longer have the option to have his last name so its not even under discussion and as matter of fact, he looks you square in the eyes and says: "I want to marry you but I will not ALLOW you to take my last name, and there is no way that I'm taking yours".  You'd feel like crap. You probably wouldn't take the same position. You'd probably side with me and my "symbolize" argument.

MaCNCheese

Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: MEMEMEME on June 23, 2010, 03:54:38 PM
If your own independence is so important why get married? Why go through a ceremony that only means more paperwork and legal drama if you ever want to split? Why not just live together and leave it at that?

Thelo is such an evident sexist that it's hilarious. Hey, why get married? I bet he also owns a big truck because certain anatomy is tiny. Marriage=loving partnership. You and Mac n Cheese or whatever his name is are as bad as the damn fanatics in the middle east. If two people want to marry and change both of their names to "ieatdingleberries" and then the woman wants to wear a suit everyday while the man wears a dress and they both work, why do you care?  I am sure if either of you have wives, she took your name and didn't mind because you two share the SAME VALUES. That's why you're married. Please stay out of people's lives because it only makes you look like insecure and exacerbates the world's problems.

PS. Mac n Cheese, I wouldn't shed one tear if my husband didn't want me to take his name. Look up "social construct" and get back to me.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 23, 2010, 04:25:43 PM
You were too scared to used your regular account and had to set up a shadow account just for that one post?Sad.
Marriage dosnt equal loving partnership. Loving relationship equals loving partnership. If people are too scared to share a name then why file a piece of paper that just makes it harder if you need to break up? Is that the point in and of itself? If so thats just dumb.

Yes, "stay out of peoples lives" when they post and start a public online discussion on it, yeah THAT is why you had to create a coward account.

If your own independence is so important why get married? Why go through a ceremony that only means more paperwork and legal drama if you ever want to split? Why not just live together and leave it at that?

Thelo is such an evident sexist that it's hilarious. Hey, why get married? I bet he also owns a big truck because certain anatomy is tiny. Marriage=loving partnership. You and Mac n Cheese or whatever his name is are as bad as the damn fanatics in the middle east. If two people want to marry and change both of their names to "ieatdingleberries" and then the woman wants to wear a suit everyday while the man wears a dress and they both work, why do you care?  I am sure if either of you have wives, she took your name and didn't mind because you two share the SAME VALUES. That's why you're married. Please stay out of people's lives because it only makes you look like insecure and exacerbates the world's problems.

PS. Mac n Cheese, I wouldn't shed one tear if my husband didn't want me to take his name. Look up "social construct" and get back to me.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mac n cheese on June 23, 2010, 05:23:37 PM
If your own independence is so important why get married? Why go through a ceremony that only means more paperwork and legal drama if you ever want to split? Why not just live together and leave it at that?

Thelo is such an evident sexist that it's hilarious. Hey, why get married? I bet he also owns a big truck because certain anatomy is tiny. Marriage=loving partnership. You and Mac n Cheese or whatever his name is are as bad as the damn fanatics in the middle east. If two people want to marry and change both of their names to "ieatdingleberries" and then the woman wants to wear a suit everyday while the man wears a dress and they both work, why do you care?  I am sure if either of you have wives, she took your name and didn't mind because you two share the SAME VALUES. That's why you're married. Please stay out of people's lives because it only makes you look like insecure and exacerbates the world's problems.

PS. Mac n Cheese, I wouldn't shed one tear if my husband didn't want me to take his name. Look up "social construct" and get back to me.

Ok, i've googled "social construct" and skimmed through. I think I know where you are going with this, but i'm not sure so let me ask you a few questions. What was the defining factor in your personal decision to marry? Did you see married couples in public, in your family, and on television which ultimately gave you the idea? Did your priest tell you to do it? If so, isnt it safe to say that you were following the pack? If not, then I guess you consider yourself to be a pioneer, a leader! Yeah sure. My bet is that you were acting out what you learned, and were told that it was "the right thing to do". With that said, how do you feel that the idea of "social construct" is relevant to the initial argument over gender and name changes in a marriage?

On a personal note, I think that marriage is the ultimate level of friendship to exist. As long as both people are satisfied then no problem, right? But that's not what were talking about. Were talking about a situation in which someone is not satisfied. (whether or not the disatisfaction is the result of a "social construct" is pointless)
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: the white rabbit on June 23, 2010, 07:11:01 PM
That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese

If unity and togetherness is what it's supposed to symbolize, is there any good argument reason why the man shouldn't take his wife's last name?



No.  I don't have a good argument against the man changing his last name. However, image is important to some people and I know that if one of my friends told me that he was going to change HIS last name, well, lets just say he probably wouldn't get a call for the annual superbowl party. This is soooo ridiculous. I can't believe its come to this.......  If this is how you really feel then here are my suggestions:

1.  Find a girlie man, metrosexual, or or man femminist that will agree with you. It would make your life easier.
2. Skip the marriage or
3. Get a sex change

How would you feel if a guy asked you to marry him under this condition:
 You are not ALLOWED to take his last name and he states that he will not even entertain taking your last name. This changes things up a tad bit now doesn't it.  You no longer have the option to have his last name so its not even under discussion and as matter of fact, he looks you square in the eyes and says: "I want to marry you but I will not ALLOW you to take my last name, and there is no way that I'm taking yours".  You'd feel like crap. You probably wouldn't take the same position. You'd probably side with me and my "symbolize" argument.

MaCNCheese

My, my.  You read so much into my question that wasn't there.  I was just pointing out that your arguments about unity and togetherness, taken as true, only got you so far as one person should change their last name to the other person's last name, and that it didn't provide any support for it being the woman taking the man's last name.  You seem to recognize this, so I give you credit for that.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Thistle on June 23, 2010, 07:32:25 PM
do you two follow each other around arguing?

wouldnt surprise me a bit if you were the same person.

it would be a good troll though, because of the effort
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: .Chuck on June 23, 2010, 08:09:45 PM
do you two follow each other around arguing?


Isn't that what married/committed couples typically do?
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: MEMEMEME on June 24, 2010, 04:28:37 AM
Uh, how is it a coward account? I am well aware that my old posts will transfer under  my new name (with same e-mail). I just decided I liked this name better, just like you decided to change yours.

NUMITOR- The reason I left last time was because I was pretty pissed when my mother was thrown at me as an insult (meanwhile her condition (CANCER) was worsening at the very point) and I just needed a break from all of the stupidity. But, hey, I figure, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. So I will join in becoming a petty, insulting twit. It is a good release for me for the time being.

Mac N Cheese- I agree with everything you said to me in your . I add though that social constructs throughout time and some stay. It depends how different societies evolve. I suppose my point is if there are enough people who want the change, then the others should stick to their traditions if they want and not stop the revolutionaries from changing. It doesn't mean traditionalists have to change.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 24, 2010, 08:56:05 AM
If this is supposed to be "son of a pickle" shutup. Someone is already using your name and look again at your counter, are you too stupid to just change name vs creating a whole new account? Really?.......Really?

Uh, how is it a coward account? I am well aware that my old posts will transfer under  my new name (with same e-mail). I just decided I liked this name better, just like you decided to change yours.

NUMITOR- The reason I left last time was because I was pretty pissed when my mother was thrown at me as an insult (meanwhile her condition (CANCER) was worsening at the very point) and I just needed a break from all of the stupidity. But, hey, I figure, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. So I will join in becoming a petty, insulting twit. It is a good release for me for the time being.

Mac N Cheese- I agree with everything you said to me in your . I add though that social constructs throughout time and some stay. It depends how different societies evolve. I suppose my point is if there are enough people who want the change, then the others should stick to their traditions if they want and not stop the revolutionaries from changing. It doesn't mean traditionalists have to change.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: MEMEMEME on June 24, 2010, 12:54:43 PM
It isn't sonofapickle. I thought he was a male anyway. Uh, let's just move on. I'm tired of arguing with you anyway for the moment.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 24, 2010, 04:18:45 PM
ok what was your username and why didnt you just change your name on it instead of setting up a new account.

It isn't sonofapickle. I thought he was a male anyway. Uh, let's just move on. I'm tired of arguing with you anyway for the moment.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on June 24, 2010, 04:44:08 PM
Your right I DON'T understand the issue.  As I said "I don't really see your point".

In your initial statement you claimed that any given woman would be upset to be married without a ring at a court house and that to a male, having your wife take your name is the symbolic equivalent of a fancy wedding for a woman.  This sort of statement really does nothing to support the idea that it is either right or wrong for a man to expect his wife to change her name.  All you are saying is that "things like changing names and fancy ceremonies ARE important to people". 

You are counting on the fact that all women want diamonds and fancy weddings to prove your point. 

You final statement about how if "hypothetically" I did want a diamond, in principle, my husband should give it to me because in healthy relationships couples care about how their loved one feels.  This misses the issue entirely because the issue is how do we deal with a situation where two people who are about to get married get into a dispute where one wants one thing and the other wants the opposite.  The principle that "you should give your fiance what they want" simply cannot be applied if both people want opposite things.  The question becomes which person will give way.  Why ought the woman give way in this instance?  Why do you assume that the woman cares less about keeping her maiden name than the man cares about the woman taking his name?   

Um..I don't really see your point.  Tons of people get married and not everyone has rings or ceremonies.  Take me for example, I kept my maiden name when I was married but I also never got a diamond engagement ring and I did not have a wedding with a fancy dress and a string quartet.

 The ceremony of marriage doesn't interest me particularly.  I understand that some women are into those things but there are women out there who would trade the traditional trappings of marriage just to keep their maiden name.  Plus I don't really see your point because "traditionally" the brides family is supposed to pay for the wedding, all the man has to pay for is the engagement ring and engagement rings can be cheap or super expensive depending on HIS taste.  So the bride loses her name and puts her family in debt to pay for the wedding and you are talking about symbolism and unity.  It seems to me that "traditionally" men are the greater beneficiaries of marriage so stop complaining about what men have to sacrifice for marriage and respect women enough to see that we are not just silly romantic fools but rational creatures capable of sound financial and emotional judgement.   
That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese

You don't see the real issue here. You'd only understand my point if you could somehow understand that somethings are important to a potential spouse and when these things are disregarded by the fiance, it hurts. So, hypothetically speaking, what if a diamond ring and a fancy dress with a quartet string was important to YOU? If you didn't get those things, you'd be disappointed and therefore hurt. Furthermore, it's irrelevant to mention whether or not the groom or the bride is financially responsible for the wedding. (doesn't really matter who pays the bill) If the bride expects it and doesn't get it, she will be a bridezilla! Period.More importantly in this issue, is its IMORTANCE to either person. Obviously, if two people could care less about the jewelry, then it is not an issue - but thats not what we are talking about. Were talking about a situation in which one person values something and deems it important for the relationship, but the other does not.

MaCNCheese
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mac n cheese on June 24, 2010, 09:06:59 PM
Your right I DON'T understand the issue.  As I said "I don't really see your point".

In your initial statement you claimed that any given woman would be upset to be married without a ring at a court house and that to a male, having your wife take your name is the symbolic equivalent of a fancy wedding for a woman.  This sort of statement really does nothing to support the idea that it is either right or wrong for a man to expect his wife to change her name.  All you are saying is that "things like changing names and fancy ceremonies ARE important to people". 

You are counting on the fact that all women want diamonds and fancy weddings to prove your point. 

You final statement about how if "hypothetically" I did want a diamond, in principle, my husband should give it to me because in healthy relationships couples care about how their loved one feels.  This misses the issue entirely because the issue is how do we deal with a situation where two people who are about to get married get into a dispute where one wants one thing and the other wants the opposite.  The principle that "you should give your fiance what they want" simply cannot be applied if both people want opposite things.  The question becomes which person will give way.  Why ought the woman give way in this instance?  Why do you assume that the woman cares less about keeping her maiden name than the man cares about the woman taking his name?   

Um..I don't really see your point.  Tons of people get married and not everyone has rings or ceremonies.  Take me for example, I kept my maiden name when I was married but I also never got a diamond engagement ring and I did not have a wedding with a fancy dress and a string quartet.

 The ceremony of marriage doesn't interest me particularly.  I understand that some women are into those things but there are women out there who would trade the traditional trappings of marriage just to keep their maiden name.  Plus I don't really see your point because "traditionally" the brides family is supposed to pay for the wedding, all the man has to pay for is the engagement ring and engagement rings can be cheap or super expensive depending on HIS taste.  So the bride loses her name and puts her family in debt to pay for the wedding and you are talking about symbolism and unity.  It seems to me that "traditionally" men are the greater beneficiaries of marriage so stop complaining about what men have to sacrifice for marriage and respect women enough to see that we are not just silly romantic fools but rational creatures capable of sound financial and emotional judgement.   
That would hurt! The way I see it, there is not an objective correlation between happiness within a marriage and spouse name change. However, the name change symbolizes unity and togetherness which is obviously an issue in the event it doesn't happen. Just to illustrate my point - how would you feel if he expected you to marry him, but didn't give you a ring or a nice wedding ceremony? What if he wanted to skip the ring altogether? What if his idea of a nice wedding was to take you in his car down to the court building and marry you, then afterwards, take you to an all you can eat buffet then drop you off at home before going to work? You'd probably feel like crap because of what those things actually sybolize. On a broader scale, people rarely admit the importance of appearance and how things look to friends, family, and colleagues.
I'd probably react by explaining how important the name thing is. If I had to beg, I wouldn't want to move forward because begging is not cool. If I had to beg about this, then there is no telling what else i'd have to beg for. Just my thoughts. Be good

MaCNCheese

You don't see the real issue here. You'd only understand my point if you could somehow understand that somethings are important to a potential spouse and when these things are disregarded by the fiance, it hurts. So, hypothetically speaking, what if a diamond ring and a fancy dress with a quartet string was important to YOU? If you didn't get those things, you'd be disappointed and therefore hurt. Furthermore, it's irrelevant to mention whether or not the groom or the bride is financially responsible for the wedding. (doesn't really matter who pays the bill) If the bride expects it and doesn't get it, she will be a bridezilla! Period.More importantly in this issue, is its IMORTANCE to either person. Obviously, if two people could care less about the jewelry, then it is not an issue - but thats not what we are talking about. Were talking about a situation in which one person values something and deems it important for the relationship, but the other does not.

MaCNCheese

You've said: "You are counting on the fact that all women want diamonds and fancy weddings to prove your point." 

My response: This is inaccurate. I merely used the example as a hypo to prove the point that when expectations are not met, it hurts. (admittedly, i've assumed that THIS hypo would be a good illustration because in my neighborhood, most girls like diamonds and weddings. Go figure!

You also state: "It seems to me that "traditionally" men are the greater beneficiaries of marriage so stop complaining about what men have to sacrifice for marriage and respect women enough to see that we are not just silly romantic fools but rational creatures capable of sound financial and emotional judgement".   

My response: Who said this? I never complained about what men have to sacrifice and never implied that women are silly romantic fools that are incapable of sound financial and emotional judgment. This statement in itself is quite emotional.....

You say: The principle that "you should give your fiance what they want" simply cannot be applied if both people want opposite things.  The question becomes which person will give way.  Why ought the woman give way in this instance?  Why do you assume that the woman cares less about keeping her maiden name than the man cares about the woman taking his name?   

My response: good point. In all honesty, no matter who gives way, someone will not get what they expect.

I can't let you off the hook that easy so I have a few questions. You mentioned that you did not get a ring and did not have a ceremeony, obviously, because you did not expect these things. Was there anything that you expected from the marriage? If so, what were the things that you expected?


Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on June 24, 2010, 10:12:01 PM
Wow.  You are right.  I do get upset that women feel like they need big expensive wedding.  I feel like it is self-centered, egotistical and shows poor judgement and is fiscally irresponsible. 

I do think your comparison has a grain of truth.  Women who demand expensive weddings are much like men who require a woman to show her devotion to him by changing her name.  In both cases tho, the people are mistaking the symbols and icons of devotion for the real thing.  A woman changing her maiden name does not MEAN that she will be a loyal or devoted wife, therefore I do not change my name to show my devotion.  Some women think that the more money their husband spends on the engagement ring the more he loves her.  This is also not the case.     

You said that the symbols of commitment are important.  Well I say that they are empty and devoid of meaning and significance and everyone knows it.  Furthermore, they are boring and hackneyed.  Every relationship is unique and different and people ought to create their own idea of what marriage is rather than re-enacting the same tired pantomime with the virginal white dress and the woman being "given" away like chattel. 

You asked me what I expect from my husband... no more than I expect from my other family members because that is what he is, my family.  I don't have any clear expectations.  What do you expect from your family? 

Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mac n cheese on June 25, 2010, 06:37:05 AM
Haynes,
So, i ask you "what did you expect from a marriage?" and you respond by saying, "I didn't have any clear expectations". Come on........
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 25, 2010, 09:13:10 AM
the same can be said for all other standard expectations(IE, name changes of the woman to that of her husband) "come on,,,,,,,"

Haynes,
So, i ask you "what did you expect from a marriage?" and you respond by saying, "I didn't have any clear expectations". Come on........
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: Haynes7 on June 25, 2010, 02:40:53 PM
Ok, what if what I expect of my husband is to lack expectations of me...lol

One standard marital expectation is sexual fidelity.  The failure of either partner in this area can lead to STD's which in turn can cause sterility and even death.  This seems a reasonable expectation because of the consequences.  What are the negative consequences of a wife not taking her husbands name that he can point to and say "look at the harm that will be done if you don't take my name". 

I don't think men have much of a leg to stand on demanding that women change their names because "omg how will it look to other people if you don't change your name".  I doubt that men routinely lose respect or social status, health or wealth because of their wife's last name. 
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 25, 2010, 07:30:13 PM
Thats like saying you dont look like a loser and dont have marital issues just becuase you sleep in different beds in different rooms each night.


Ok, what if what I expect of my husband is to lack expectations of me...lol

One standard marital expectation is sexual fidelity.  The failure of either partner in this area can lead to STD's which in turn can cause sterility and even death.  This seems a reasonable expectation because of the consequences.  What are the negative consequences of a wife not taking her husbands name that he can point to and say "look at the harm that will be done if you don't take my name". 

I don't think men have much of a leg to stand on demanding that women change their names because "omg how will it look to other people if you don't change your name".  I doubt that men routinely lose respect or social status, health or wealth because of their wife's last name.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: GovLaw on June 28, 2010, 10:46:08 AM
Will this thread never die????????
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 28, 2010, 06:39:52 PM
Not with jerkoffs like you bumping it.
"the doctor said my nose wouldn't bleed so much if I stopped putting my finger up there...."  :P

Will this thread never die????????
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: MEMEMEME on June 30, 2010, 06:17:29 AM
Stomp, stomp, stomp, die thread die! Rrrrrr! Die! Ok it's dead.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 30, 2010, 09:09:04 AM
who taught that A-hole from cooley CPR?!?!?!  >:(

Stomp, stomp, stomp, die thread die! Rrrrrr! Die! Ok it's dead.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mpedede on July 25, 2010, 06:26:51 AM
Hmm interesting. Never had that asked to me before. Hyphanate, when the divorce is done just remove the hyphen. Just kidding. Most importmant, is the relationship it self. Is the relationship healthy? If the relationship isn't healthy, the name won't matter. It easy to get a divorce. I'm from northen minnesota, it seems like when people get a divorce, the lawyers are basically dividing up stuff and just getting the divorce over with. The couple has to accept that they are seperated. If they want to get back together again in the future, its up to them, but remeber what got them seperated. If I was a judge, or even as a person, i expect both parties to move on with their life as an individual. I don't hear trash talking towards one another. Sometimes a divorce leads to one party and or both parties talking bad about each other. That shows that the person is not strong. The person cannot move on. If restraining orders need to be put on, both parties need to respect the order. If a person decides to remove an order, it will be hard because as a judge, i don't want to hear, or even as a person, i don't want to hear day in and day out husband/wife bf/gf issues. That annoys people. Its individual freedom now that the divorce is final or the realtionship is over. So the name is not really an issue its the strength of the relationship itself.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mpedede on July 25, 2010, 11:48:48 AM
in the state of minnesota, if restraining order is put on between 2 parties, just saying hi, constitues punishment if the restraining order is still on. No contact no contact. If the order is order of protection, if you own guns they take it. Because the order is a threat of violence. If the defendant takes the order to court and the judge finds no violence or threat the order gets drop. THe judge will ask the plaintiff wheater or not they want a harrassment order. Then the order is set for an ex amount of time. The plaintiff too, has to obey whats on the order. First violation is a mistameaner just a fine. Second time gross mistamear, 1 year in jail and or a fine. Third time felony prison. But the lawyers can negotiate the sentecning. The whole point is you cannot force someone else to love you. You cannot hold anything against someone if they leave you. Those are the guidlines for harrassment. Order for protection is worse. Prison time.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: mpedede on July 25, 2010, 11:59:22 AM
it doesn't matter. Its only a name. I've seen marriages that end. So its only a name.
Title: Re: Guys: How Would You Feel if Fiance Wouldn't Change Her Last Name?
Post by: JamesSimon on August 03, 2010, 05:40:25 PM
^ maybe you're right. there's a lot more to think about than just a name. try hyphening your last name to hers. if that will settle it. but like i said, there's more things to think about than that.

also, search law books on legitimation of marriages based on that. ok?