Law School Discussion

Law Students => Incoming 1Ls => Topic started by: Haynes7 on April 10, 2010, 08:21:47 PM

Title: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: Haynes7 on April 10, 2010, 08:21:47 PM
 Many people say that it is not worth it to attend a 4th tier school period.  I have been accepted to Whittier with a nice little scholarship.  I have not been able to find a job since I graduated from college and I am flat broke.  My feeling is that things cannot possibly get worse for me.  I have heard a lot of complaining from people that they are forced to take low paying jobs after law school.  I would rather work like a dog for peanuts then continue being unemployed and facing homelessness.  Should I go to law school?  What possible consequences could I face from attending a 4th tier school?
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: bigs5068 on April 10, 2010, 08:51:47 PM
I go to a 4th tier school and it's fine.  There is a lot of b.s. stuff about tier 4 schools, but it is not true. Going to Whittier is not going to result in having the red carpet rolled out for you, but very few schools have people waiting with contracts in hand at graduation.  As you are realizing right now a degree whether it be a B.A., M.D., Masters, J.D. whatever does not mean all that much.  The real world is a lot colder than school is and getting a job is HARD.

Go to law school if you want to be a lawyer and you will have a skill, which is something and you can get a job.  Particularly, if you show a talent for the law by i.e. ranking in the top 10%, writing for a journal, god knows what it could be but something of value.  There is the possibility you could end up in the same boat you are in now just in more debt, so there is risk going to law school.

However, any B.S. you hear about tier 4's  bent on ruining your life are not true.  They do not kick out %25 of the class, people do get jobs, and bottom line is you learn the same things at any ABA school. My first year at my tier 4 has been awesome and I got a few summer job offers already and so have a lot of people. There are a few people that don't have anything lined up and that is the way it goes.

So bottom line is Whittier is not Harvard and I assume you knew that, but any ABA school is fine and if you put the work in there is a good chance everything will work. However, no matter what you do there is always a risk it won't work out.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: cu014628 on April 29, 2010, 03:41:23 AM
My best friend graduated from Whittier ... got a few offers and decided to work as a DA for a bit, now doing criminal defense.  He has only good things to say about his experience there (outside of "law school will make you miserable") ... Good group of people there.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: john4040 on April 29, 2010, 07:21:14 AM
Many people say that it is not worth it to attend a 4th tier school period.  I have been accepted to Whittier with a nice little scholarship.  I have not been able to find a job since I graduated from college and I am flat broke.  My feeling is that things cannot possibly get worse for me.  I have heard a lot of complaining from people that they are forced to take low paying jobs after law school.  I would rather work like a dog for peanuts then continue being unemployed and facing homelessness.  Should I go to law school?  What possible consequences could I face from attending a 4th tier school?

When you consider Bigs' advice, please keep in mind that he is talking about T4s getting summer jobs (not full-time attorney positions).  Finding a full-time position in the legal field from a tier 4 is extremely difficult.  Also, Bigs' quote that "very few schools have people waiting with contracts in hand at graduation" should be revised to state: "very few T2, T3, and T4 schools have people waiting with contracts in hand at graduation."

With that said, your quote: "My feeling is that things cannot possibly get worse for me" is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!  You will accumulate more debt during law school than you would have otherwise had if you had not attended.  Also, it is possible that you will earn the same amount as you would have earned had you not gone to law school.  It is also likely that you may be unemployed at the end of law school. I hope you have a good scholarship, because you'll need it.  Tier 4s are notorious for placing rigorous stipulations on their scholarships.  You might want to check into this as well before committing to law school.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: Haynes7 on April 29, 2010, 04:31:12 PM
Thanks very much for your honest advise.  I would really like to work as a PD.  Do you think this is possible? 
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: bigs5068 on May 17, 2010, 08:50:17 AM
Yes it is possible to work as a public defender from Whittier if you go to law school and pass the bar you become a lawyer and any ABA school from Harvard-Whittier will teach you the skills to pass the bar .  To the John guys quote I am well aware that I am a 1L with only summer jobs, but I know plenty of 3L's/Graduates now with actual jobs lined up and there are also 3L's/Graduates now that don't. However, even Harvard has unemployed graduates and ones that didn't pass the bar.  Law school for the most part is what you make of it. However, I will reveal the shocking information that yes a J.D. from UCLA will open more doors than a J.D.  from Whittier.  The simple answer to the OP's question of whether you CAN get employed as a P.D. from Whittier is YES you CAN. There is no guarantee, but good luck finding any guaranteed employment in any field. If being a PD is what you want to do go to law school in the area you want to be a PD. End of story.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 17, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
Being a PD is an honorable profession, but not exactly hard to get. Basicly just pass the bar and not be a serial killer, and you'll get it. Seriously its not even worth a bead of sweat. They need you FAR more than you need them, just remember that.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: sonofapickle on May 21, 2010, 06:23:58 AM
Listening to the people in this thread will only set your goals so low you would never amount to be a good lawyer.

Firstly, going to a 4th tier school is similar of going to a community college for law school.

Secondly, becoming a PD is not an honorable profession, but rather a profession that says, "he obviously didn't cut it." Why do you think when people hear public defender, they roll their eyes? Public defenders are just the bottom of the barrel. If people could afford a lawyer, they would not opt for some public defender. It is rather dishonorable. People who believe it is honorable see themselves as public defenders, or are already public defenders. Public defenders are the welfare checks of law.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 21, 2010, 08:38:42 AM
so if its so low on your pole then why wouldnt the lower school grads end up in it?

Longwinded fetus story latter, yes he thinks it'll work.  :P

Listening to the people in this thread will only set your goals so low you would never amount to be a good lawyer.

Firstly, going to a 4th tier school is similar of going to a community college for law school.

Secondly, becoming a PD is not an honorable profession, but rather a profession that says, "he obviously didn't cut it." Why do you think when people hear public defender, they roll their eyes? Public defenders are just the bottom of the barrel. If people could afford a lawyer, they would not opt for some public defender. It is rather dishonorable. People who believe it is honorable see themselves as public defenders, or are already public defenders. Public defenders are the welfare checks of law.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: john4040 on May 21, 2010, 11:05:22 AM
Secondly, becoming a PD is not an honorable profession, but rather a profession that says, "he obviously didn't cut it." Why do you think when people hear public defender, they roll their eyes? Public defenders are just the bottom of the barrel. If people could afford a lawyer, they would not opt for some public defender. It is rather dishonorable. People who believe it is honorable see themselves as public defenders, or are already public defenders. Public defenders are the welfare checks of law.

ROFLMAO, you couldn't be more wrong.  I can guarantee you that the Federal Public Defender at my Court can open up a serious can of litigation whoop-ass on just about all of the Biglaw attorneys I have seen practice here.  These public defenders are often Ex-US Assistant Attorneys who litigate cases DAILY.  They do it because they love the work and appreciate the challenge.

Your quote reminds me of a layperson's (ignorant) perception of a Federal Judicial Law Clerk or an attorney for the Federal Government:

"Lawclerk... isn't that some kind of person that files documents for the court?"

"Attorney for the US... why would anyone want a government job?  Those guys don't even work and they get the 'bottom of the barrel' over there."
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: sonofapickle on May 21, 2010, 11:39:24 AM
I've seen plenty of PD's in my life time to know they are just bottom-feeders of Law. The one PD you see does not constitute the majority of PD's. Keep dreaming you'll be the baddest public defender out there. Also, lol @ wanting to do it for the thrills. At the end of the day when you can hardly keep the mortgage payments to a double-wide up, you'll regret saying, "well, I am doing this for the fun of it." Please, you only do it for fun when the money is sufficient and you can cover variables and possibly fixed assets to maintain a decent living.

Quote
so if its so low on your pole then why wouldnt the lower school grads end up in it?

Lower school grads simply don't cut it for law so they don't end up being a PD. They have either two options, Mcdonald's or Ihop. That is it. People who do not have the aptitude to be a lawyer should not be a lawyer.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: john4040 on May 21, 2010, 11:50:29 AM
I've seen plenty of PD's in my life time to know they are just bottom-feeders of Law. The one PD you see does not constitute the majority of PD's.

I'm a federal judicial law clerk, I see public defenders every day.  Although not all of them are as talented as THE Federal Public Defender of my district, they all have impressive resumes.  The attorneys that they draw from (in my district) include an Ex-US Attorney, several Ex-Assistant US Attorneys, and many prominent partners of white collar crime firms.

As for a state public defender, I cannot comment, as I have limited knowledge on that particular area.  However, I can say with confidence that federal public defenders are not "bottom of the barrel" by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: sonofapickle on May 21, 2010, 12:13:40 PM
Do you work in a circuit court room? Public Defenders aren't paid as well as private institutional lawyers. Mostly state public defenders are the lack-luster types and I have yet to see a good federal PD.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: john4040 on May 21, 2010, 12:20:24 PM
Do you work in a circuit court room? Public Defenders aren't paid as well as private institutional lawyers. Mostly state public defenders are the lack-luster types and I have yet to see a good federal PD.

I work at a District Court. 

Attorneys working at the DOJ aren't paid as well as private attorneys, yet the DOJ still gets the cream of the crop of law students through its honors program.  This should give you an indication that sometimes students value experience and high-profile cases over the instant gratification that may come from a Biglaw salary.  You can bet your ass that, for every student that chooses to go to the DOJ, there was/is a Biglaw firm willing to hire them.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 21, 2010, 02:06:45 PM
What do you expect, he lives in his mommys house is a teenager and never even took the lsat.  :P

Secondly, becoming a PD is not an honorable profession, but rather a profession that says, "he obviously didn't cut it." Why do you think when people hear public defender, they roll their eyes? Public defenders are just the bottom of the barrel. If people could afford a lawyer, they would not opt for some public defender. It is rather dishonorable. People who believe it is honorable see themselves as public defenders, or are already public defenders. Public defenders are the welfare checks of law.

ROFLMAO, you couldn't be more wrong.  I can guarantee you that the Federal Public Defender at my Court can open up a serious can of litigation whoop-ass on just about all of the Biglaw attorneys I have seen practice here.  These public defenders are often Ex-US Assistant Attorneys who litigate cases DAILY.  They do it because they love the work and appreciate the challenge.

Your quote reminds me of a layperson's (ignorant) perception of a Federal Judicial Law Clerk or an attorney for the Federal Government:

"Lawclerk... isn't that some kind of person that files documents for the court?"

"Attorney for the US... why would anyone want a government job?  Those guys don't even work and they get the 'bottom of the barrel' over there."
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: Haynes7 on May 21, 2010, 02:20:06 PM
Ouch!  That stings!  Obviously I realize that I am "bottom of the barrel".  I realize I won't have much prestige or respect but I have a tough skin.  All I want is a challenging and intellectually engaging job that will allow me to live modestly but independently.  I have never been ambitious.  I prefer to be at the bottom.  I'm comfortable there.  Someone has gotta be at the bottom! 

What is dishonorable about defending those who can't afford a lawyer?  Thank god there are mediocre people like me out there who are available to serve the disadvantaged. 


Listening to the people in this thread will only set your goals so low you would never amount to be a good lawyer.

Firstly, going to a 4th tier school is similar of going to a community college for law school.

Secondly, becoming a PD is not an honorable profession, but rather a profession that says, "he obviously didn't cut it." Why do you think when people hear public defender, they roll their eyes? Public defenders are just the bottom of the barrel. If people could afford a lawyer, they would not opt for some public defender. It is rather dishonorable. People who believe it is honorable see themselves as public defenders, or are already public defenders. Public defenders are the welfare checks of law.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: bigs5068 on May 21, 2010, 02:40:45 PM
Pure bottom feeders are PD's Sonofpickle how are you so confident about everything, when you have not even taken the LSAT etc. You know less than I do about the legal profession as a whole and what I know as a 1L law student with some paralegal experience is fairly minimal. 

You will know what school you are going to once you take the LSAT first off.  Then even if you get into a top school, which by all means I hope you do you still have to find a job etc. Maybe at Harvard they hand out jobs I am obviously nowhere near that level, but I wouldn't count on being handed a job wherever you go and it is really to say those guys are bottom feeders when you have basically no experience in the legal profession at law.  There is a good chance even if you go to Harvard or Yale you might not get a big-law job.  The whole corporate/big law is struggling big-time right now.

Honestly, once you enter law school I think you will realize a little more that at the end of the day everybody is a lawyer and on the first day of class you realize you are not anymore special than the kid sitting next to in class.  I also don't really think any firm, department, etc would consider themselves a "bottom feeder."

Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: sonofapickle on May 21, 2010, 03:10:51 PM
Hey there, I said, and have been saying since the day 1 I have a mentor who is a lawyer, my uncle is a lawyer, and I do volunteer work for offices in law. I have as much, if not more experience, than you do. All you have over me is your time in law school and the fact that you took the lsat. That is it. In terms of actual law, you have probably less experience than I have.

As said before, I have seen PD's in action and they are bottom-feeders. They don't give two shits about their clients because they are paid so low. They are miserable and it is a miserable field of law.

What makes a person more special? I did not major in liberal arts and increased my resume by majoring in 3 distinct areas and having a science background I could go into IP law if I decide I don't like corporate law. You need to know that you may not be special due to your own insecurities and lack of contemplating what majors would increase your portfolio and also add to what you love, but that does not make me less special. I took almost a year coming up with a perfect plan to become a successful lawyer by contemplating what I should major in and what I truly love to do aside from law. My majors are a culmination of what will get me a job straight out of law school and your ass will be sitting on the goddamn side lines still posting in this forum giving false hope, that you and I both know, you don't give jackshit if I make it or not.

@Haynes7

As for me, I'd rather not defend some crack whore whose mixed cracked baby is now laying in a garbage can all because the father decided to play a little game of hide and go seek. That is why PD's, or at least, state PD's hate their jobs. They rarely, if ever, get a decent shot at an actual good case. A public defender is like the cop of law enforcement, he defends mediocre people and gets mediocre benefits in return. Whereas, becoming an FBI (private sector lawyer) agent you get more high profile cases, better salary, benefits, and you begin to love your job as it is meaningful.  I just can't believe a person would settle for that title of PD.

You want to know where doctors will be? IN the same position as the public lawyer in a few years due to Obamaniac's health-care plan. It is all fine and dandy now, but years later you will be saying, "this is bull..," it will act more like some damn bureaucracy than an actual hospital. When you are waiting for a nurse to come to your aid as you lie on the ground bleeding from some stab wound a bum decided to give you with his damaged shiv, you will wonder, "how the f^ck did we end up here?" Doctors will be paid less (public defender), and the private sector will be reaping the most benefits. You won't see any public doctor saying, "I love helping people..." That would be a damn blatant lie as helping various crack sluts from their needle infested arms is not something anyone wakes up happy to do like a damn clown. Likewise with a public defender.

I like the optimism though, but sooner than later you will feel the full force of hate for people. Job won't be meaningful and after your xth case of defending the same crack whore, you will say, "complete waste of time..." Sure, 2 years is good to gain experience, but making it a career is impossible.

@obst:

What should they expect? A person who actually knows what he is talking about as I have more experience. I don't need to take the damn lsat or go to law school as I have experience on hand and know professionals who know their damn job as well. What do I expect from you? Mediocre posts from a kid in a mediocre college. I may be chronologically younger, but the difference in intellect is substantial enough to say, I am old enough to be your dad. Here is some advice kid, stay out of grown up discussions as I hate schooling you each and every post.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 21, 2010, 03:14:16 PM
 :'(
Hey there, I said, and have been saying since the day 1 I have a mentor who is a lawyer, my uncle is a lawyer, and I do volunteer work for offices in law. I have as much, if not more experience, than you do. All you have over me is your time in law school and the fact that you took the lsat. That is it. In terms of actual law, you have probably less experience than I have.

As said before, I have seen PD's in action and they are bottom-feeders. They don't give two shits about their clients because they are paid so low. They are miserable and it is a miserable field of law.

What makes a person more special? I did not major in liberal arts and increased my resume by majoring in 3 distinct areas and having a science background I could go into IP law if I decide I don't like corporate law. You need to know that you may not be special due to your own insecurities and lack of contemplating what majors would increase your portfolio and also add to what you love, but that does not make me less special. I took almost a year coming up with a perfect plan to become a successful lawyer by contemplating what I should major in and what I truly love to do aside from law. My majors are a culmination of what will get me a job straight out of law school and your ass will be sitting on the goddamn side lines still posting in this forum giving false hope, that you and I both know, you don't give jackshit if I make it or not.

@Haynes7

As for me, I'd rather not defend some crack whore whose mixed cracked baby is now laying in a garbage can all because the father decided to play a little game of hide and go seek. That is why PD's, or at least, state PD's hate their jobs. They rarely, if ever, get a decent shot at an actual good case. A public defender is like the cop of law enforcement, he defends mediocre people and gets mediocre benefits in return. Whereas, becoming an FBI (private sector lawyer) agent you get more high profile cases, better salary, benefits, and you begin to love your job as it is meaningful.  I just can't believe a person would settle for that title of PD.

You want to know where doctors will be? IN the same position as the public lawyer in a few years due to Obamaniac's health-care plan. It is all fine and dandy now, but years later you will be saying, "this is bull..," it will act more like some damn bureaucracy than an actual hospital. When you are waiting for a nurse to come to your aid as you lie on the ground bleeding from some stab wound a bum decided to give you with his damaged shiv, you will wonder, "how the f^ck did we end up here?" Doctors will be paid less (public defender), and the private sector will be reaping the most benefits. You won't see any public doctor saying, "I love helping people..." That would be a damn blatant lie as helping various crack sluts from their needle infested arms is not something anyone wakes up happy to do like a damn clown. Likewise with a public defender.

I like the optimism though, but sooner than later you will feel the full force of hate for people. Job won't be meaningful and after your xth case of defending the same crack whore, you will say, "complete waste of time..." Sure, 2 years is good to gain experience, but making it a career is impossible.

@obst:

What should they expect? A person who actually knows what he is talking about as I have more experience. I don't need to take the damn lsat or go to law school as I have experience on hand and know professionals who know their damn job as well. What do I expect from you? Mediocre posts from a kid in a mediocre college. I may be chronologically younger, but the difference in intellect is substantial enough to say, I am old enough to be your dad. Here is some advice kid, stay out of grown up discussions as I hate schooling you each and every post.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: sonofapickle on May 21, 2010, 03:33:40 PM
Your mother felt the same way.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: bigs5068 on May 21, 2010, 04:57:17 PM
Sonofpickle I don't what to say, your uncle is a lawyer that's great. I worked in law offices for two years, got a paralegal certificate got 4 letters of recommendation from lawyers to go to law school. All that really means ja*k in terms of becoming a lawyer. One guy in my section is probably like you and all throughout out class he would mention all his "experience working as a paralegal" nobody gave a rat's ass about what he did and everybody dislikes the kid to say the least. He is also on the verge of failing out. 

Believe it or not law school is the first step to becoming a lawyer and you can't be a lawyer without going to law school. Whatever, you learned from your mentor or uncle will not even scratch the surface of what your learn in law school. Your confidence is very misplaced, whatever you did before law school is irrelevant. Nobody cares, what you did it is what you do in law school and when you work in your internships as 1L,2L,3L and as an actual lawyer.

You can tell yourself how great and special you are all you want, but at the end of the day it won't matter how great you feel about yourself. A law school admissions commitee is going to look at your LSAT I hope you get a 180 that would be great. Even if you do get a 180 it means jack sh**t in terms of doing well in law school. This one girl in my section got a full scholarship to GGU and got a 165 on her LSAT the only reason I know that, is because she told everybody and decided she was so smart that she could screw around on the internet in class and guess what that got her a 2.3 after the first semester and essentially no chance of keeping her scholarship.  One of the top student's in our section got a 147 on the LSAT and he only disclosed that after he did really well on the exams. Bottom line is it doesn't matter what your uncle told you, or your mentor, sure it is helpful, but trust if you walk into an interview during your 1L summer and tell them that your uncle is a lawyer and you even had a mentor so you know everything there is to know about the law, they probably won't be calling you back.





Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: sonofapickle on May 21, 2010, 06:32:58 PM
I have been this way my whole life and I am not like the idiots in your descriptions. I have never slipped and won't.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 21, 2010, 06:35:51 PM
 ::)

I have been this way my whole life and I am not like the idiots in your descriptions. I have never slipped and won't.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: legalized on May 22, 2010, 03:19:09 AM
any ABA school from Harvard-Whittier will teach you the skills to pass the bar . 

This, OP, is NOT true.

The top 3 schools, and possibly the entire T14, are well known to teach more theoretical approaches to law and you are expected to cover the black letter law on your own.

The state schools in particular and, if I remember right, all non-T14 schools cover much more black letter law in their teachings, and that black letter is geared towards the state they are located in.  Therefore a state school teaches with more of a slant towards what's covered on their bar exam.

All ABA-approved schools from Yale to Appalachian will, if you pass their courses, grant you a JD from an ABA-approved law school, and for most states that is the first requirement to be able to sit the bar.

It is worth it to go to Whittier if it is the only school you got into, if it is the best quality school you got into (and how you determine that is up to you, for me it's feeder market, attrition rate, bar passage rate, and on a lesser note, customer service up to that point), and if it is the best financial aid package you got.

My feeling is people should have more than one two acceptances though to be able to even make a choice.  If it's the only school it's not a choice is it cause you have no other option.

You can also consider retaking the LSAT (using improved study methods) in October of this year and using the better score to aim for a school with lower attrition and higher bar passage rates.

But even if you decide to attend this year, Whittier is a regional school and you need to be sure that where the majority of it's students end up practicing is somewhere you are willing to live and work for likely the next 40 years after you pass the bar.  If not, don't go, because where most of its graduates feed is where your potential Whittier jobs are.  Only nationally known schools can place virtually anywhere (except perhaps really small towns that they are not from, who won't trust the extent of their commitment/connection to the area).

If you would like to live and work in a certain area go to a law school that feeds most of it's graduates into that area.  If you KNOW where you want to live and work, you could even move there this year, take the test this fall and apply to schools for that area this fall, and be classified in-state by the time 1L rolls around.

For example, if you live in Cali there may be no cheap schools instate, but if you are classified as a Georgia resident Georgia State's law school is only about $10,000 a year...and if you go parttime it's less.

That's the other thing, make sure even if you decide to attend Whittier that you consider going part time so you can work, otherwise go get a McDonald's job if you have to in order to save up money this summer for your books (which, unlike undergraduate, you will need, from what I read, before the first day of class hits, and which are SEVERAL books not just one textbook per class).  Save up money for your first month or two of incidentals and the move itself if you will have to leave the state.

Cheer up, you sound a little depressed about the job/financial situation, I know that feeling, but as long as you have a plan to change your status, there's a way out of the mess.

And PD offices are more popular options with unemployed students, and are also on constrained budgets due to the economy, so if you know you want to be a PD, get off the law school campus and get involved in local PD associations, get connected in the PD world, talk to people writing PD blogs about how to get a job, talk to PDs in the PD offices of the state(s) you want to live and work in about the pros and cons of their job and the best ways to get a job in a PD office in this economy...get out there, and remember to smile and not sound depressed and don't tell them how broke you are.

Good luck whatever you decide!  Also asking the career center at Whittier (now, before you get there) for names of grads who went into public interest/PD work, and contacting them (if you can find out what state they went to, look it up on their state's bar's website), is a good way to get the truth about Whittier for people with your interests...straight from the horse's mouth, instead of from us who never been there.  Make sure to ask them about their experience with Whittier.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 22, 2010, 08:48:04 AM
Concord and Taft,  ;)
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: bigs5068 on May 22, 2010, 09:49:29 AM
I have been this way my whole life and I am not like the idiots in your descriptions. I have never slipped and won't.

What have you been do you really think anybody goes into law school thinking they will fail? Does someone go into law school thinking I am going to spend 100k on this degree and I know I am going to fail out. My first day of class everybody was talking about how they were going to finish in the top 10% and demand scholarship money.  Shocking result happened only 10% of the people that were saying that finished in the top 10%. 

Law school is nothing like science and you getting a B in physics is the most unrelated thing do doing well in law school that you could name.  I got an A in contracts and civil procedure my first semester, but you can believe that on my second semester exams for those classes I couldn't just write I got an A last time so I am special give me an A again. Nope believe it or not I actually had to answer the questions that were on the test and now I am waiting for the results. I guess didn't try or even ask the professors If I could write that for the essay portion and put a giant give me an A on the scantron for multiple choice, but why don't do that on your LSAT if you take it, don't bother answering questions I got a B in physics, my uncle is a lawyer, and I know two languages. I heard they give an automatic 180 on the LSAT if you do that.

In all honesty if you ever do take REAL LSAT and actually make your way to law school on the first day everybody is confident that will be the best, but 90% of the people are not going to be in the top 10% that is the way it is.  You have a 10% chance of being in the top 10% of your class and if you go to law school I hope you do well. Telling everybody how special you are is not going to get you very in law school or life, nobody is that special particularly when it comes to law school. 
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: Haynes7 on May 23, 2010, 04:58:47 PM
Thank you Legalized  I have actually found a job at a sandwich shop and am saving up for school.  The reality is, my parents will support me if I go to school THIS year but not next year.  I have tried reasoning with them but they think that there is no point taking the lsat again and that it is too expensive (I only took it once and did not study near as hard as I should have).  They are willing to help me buy books, move etc. so long as I go now! 
  I got into Willamette as well but it has a terrible reputation locally and I have actually met a person who failed out as 3L's (not until after I applied of course).  Willamette did not offer me a scholarship either.  I have visited Orange Country and I would like to live there.  They have a terrible attrition rate due to the fact that in 2007 the ABA threatened to remove their accreditation and everyone transferred elsewhere.  (this is according to the head of admissions).  The next year they had an 86% bar pass rate which is way above average.  My feeling is, the ABA has put a fire under them to maintain a good bar pass rate and they have taken steps to do just that.  I would like to benefit from this pressure.  I guess I'm taking things one step at a time.  Getting into law school doesn't mean a thing if you can't pass the bar and that is where my focus is.

Sonofapickle: Not everyone who is poor is a crack whore!  Where do you get your information?  I also happen to support Obama's health plan.  Are you really Anne Coulter?           
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 23, 2010, 07:11:55 PM
The fire under the school thing I think is true, the cooley staff seems SUPER into making sure the students pass and upper classman tell me that it wasn't always that way.

As for the job, you get free food?

Thank you Legalized  I have actually found a job at a sandwich shop and am saving up for school.  The reality is, my parents will support me if I go to school THIS year but not next year.  I have tried reasoning with them but they think that there is no point taking the lsat again and that it is too expensive (I only took it once and did not study near as hard as I should have).  They are willing to help me buy books, move etc. so long as I go now! 
  I got into Willamette as well but it has a terrible reputation locally and I have actually met a person who failed out as 3L's (not until after I applied of course).  Willamette did not offer me a scholarship either.  I have visited Orange Country and I would like to live there.  They have a terrible attrition rate due to the fact that in 2007 the ABA threatened to remove their accreditation and everyone transferred elsewhere.  (this is according to the head of admissions).  The next year they had an 86% bar pass rate which is way above average.  My feeling is, the ABA has put a fire under them to maintain a good bar pass rate and they have taken steps to do just that.  I would like to benefit from this pressure.  I guess I'm taking things one step at a time.  Getting into law school doesn't mean a thing if you can't pass the bar and that is where my focus is.

Sonofapickle: Not everyone who is poor is a crack whore!  Where do you get your information?  I also happen to support Obama's health plan.  Are you really Anne Coulter?           
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: legalized on May 23, 2010, 07:21:37 PM
Thank you Legalized  I have actually found a job at a sandwich shop and am saving up for school.  The reality is, my parents will support me if I go to school THIS year but not next year.  I have tried reasoning with them but they think that there is no point taking the lsat again and that it is too expensive (I only took it once and did not study near as hard as I should have).  They are willing to help me buy books, move etc. so long as I go now! 
  I got into Willamette as well but it has a terrible reputation locally and I have actually met a person who failed out as 3L's (not until after I applied of course).  Willamette did not offer me a scholarship either.  I have visited Orange Country and I would like to live there.  They have a terrible attrition rate due to the fact that in 2007 the ABA threatened to remove their accreditation and everyone transferred elsewhere.  (this is according to the head of admissions).  The next year they had an 86% bar pass rate which is way above average.  My feeling is, the ABA has put a fire under them to maintain a good bar pass rate and they have taken steps to do just that.  I would like to benefit from this pressure.  I guess I'm taking things one step at a time.  Getting into law school doesn't mean a thing if you can't pass the bar and that is where my focus is.

Sonofapickle: Not everyone who is poor is a crack whore!  Where do you get your information?  I also happen to support Obama's health plan.  Are you really Anne Coulter?           

Honestly your family is probly just worried that you will lose your drive, your motivation to succeed, if you sit out another year and have too much time on your hands as well as more time to get even more depressed about the lack of options out here.

I don't know them, could be wrong, but them being willing to pay sounds like they want to you to strike while your iron's hot.  That said, they're willing to pay! Milk that!  lol

Well, at least the school was honest with you as to why their attrition was the way it was.  I would say with all the talk of law schools lying, there are nuggets of truth out there...so if you have a scholarship there and they are being straight with you and your parents are willing to pay and they feed into a market you want to live and work in...sounds like the start of a plan to me!  Just keep doing your research and make the final decision of whether to go or not YOURS. Cause if you get there and hate it none of us and none of your family will take over for you.

Once you decide, read Matthies' thread floating around here, advice to 1Ls, on how to get a job...it's good to know those things before the crush of 1L begins.
Title: Re: Is it worth it to go to Whittier?
Post by: legalized on May 23, 2010, 07:36:24 PM
Oh and you're welcome! :-)