Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: Changed Name on August 21, 2009, 09:34:36 PM

Title: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Changed Name on August 21, 2009, 09:34:36 PM
Hello all:

I'm curious as to how this cycle is being affected by the economy and want to see if everyone's call-back number has decreased.

I guess I'll go first.  17 OCI, and received only 2 callbacks (granted, I haven't heard from all my firms yet, but it's been over a week so I'm not holding out too much hope).

FWIW, I'm a transfer student at a T15 school.

Now, your turn...
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on August 22, 2009, 05:51:14 AM
18 interviews, 0 callbacks.  Thanks for rubbing it in.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Changed Name on August 22, 2009, 08:42:25 AM
18 interviews, 0 callbacks.  Thanks for rubbing it in.

Sorry, buddy.  Not trying to rub anything in.  I wanted to see if everyone was was hurting.  I've heard from people that in the past at my school, people with over 15 interviews would get 6-8 call-backs (including transfers).

One of my call-backs is only taking ONE student.  So i'm not holding out much hope for that.

I hope I don't have to work for free again this summer.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on August 22, 2009, 09:31:58 AM
Yeah, it's okay.  I'm a little sore.  I'm spamming secondary markets.  There is too much bottleneck in the primary ones.

I go to CCN and there are dozens of no-offered 3Ls walking around.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 22, 2009, 10:12:46 AM
FWIW, I'm a transfer student at a T15 school.

This reminds me of when I was on an admissions tour at Williams College. They boasted that their golf course (!) was consistently ranked within the top four college golf courses in the country. I raised my hand and asked if that meant they were ranked fourth, because no one ever says "top four" (even for golf courses). I was dinged.

i say i go to a top seven school even though my school is not number seven.

also, T15 makes more sense than T14.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Changed Name on August 22, 2009, 10:35:18 AM
FWIW, I'm a transfer student at a T15 school.

This reminds me of when I was on an admissions tour at Williams College. They boasted that their golf course (!) was consistently ranked within the top four college golf courses in the country. I raised my hand and asked if that meant they were ranked fourth, because no one ever says "top four" (even for golf courses). I was dinged.

I can see your point.  But, I've gotten so used to seeing "T15" that I don't ever think it means any of the schools below the "15" range.  When I see T15, I just assume the person is referring to UT, UCLA, or Vandy (regardless of where those schools are ranked in a given year).
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Illini Boy on August 22, 2009, 11:41:25 AM
I think T14 is T14 because those have always been the top 14 law schools in the US News rankings. Georgetown has been right on the edge a couple of times, but hasn't fallen yet.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on August 22, 2009, 04:53:26 PM
I think T14 is T14 because those have always been the top 14 law schools in the US News rankings. Georgetown has been right on the edge a couple of times, but hasn't fallen yet.

And yet, Texas has been in the top 14 before. T14 is stupid any way you dice it, though.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Illini Boy on August 22, 2009, 06:18:59 PM
Right- I'm not saying that the T14 marking has any particular relevance. I just thought that was why it became "T14" and not "T15" or "T20" or T1000.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 23, 2009, 08:36:31 AM
T14 refers to the 14 law schools that have ever been in the top 10. Coincidentally, those schools are the top 14 law schools currently. This explains the arbitrary number. There is no such thing as T15 because USC/UCLA/Texas or whatever other schools have never been in the top 10. There could be a T15 if a new school made it to the top 10 at some point. Also, conceivably, a school could be ranked #11 and not be a T14 school.

personally, i think that the level of rationalization this term requires is absurd.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: thorc954 on August 23, 2009, 09:12:34 AM
In 2007, I was 7/22 regarding callbacks. I was top 20% at a top 20 school at the time.  Just wanted to set a reference point. 
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 23, 2009, 09:23:20 AM
to add another reference point, in 2007, i was 10 of 16 or 17 regarding callbacks.  top 20% or so at top 7 school.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Changed Name on August 23, 2009, 09:48:55 AM
I am 8/21 at my T20-ish.  For the sake of full disclosure, two of those callbacks aren't Vault (but one of those two is AmLaw 100).


Maybe it's because I'm a sore loser (didn't get in), but it really is cute to watch the Vandy kids troll for their ranking.  When I hear Vandy/USC/UCLA, I think T20.  When I hear "T15," I think here's a Vandy student who wants to quibble about the USNWR.


Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind sharing, what is your rank?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 23, 2009, 09:58:20 AM
I am 8/21 at my T20-ish.

nice.

vault schmault.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Changed Name on August 23, 2009, 10:15:03 AM
10%.  People outside that segment aren't having the same success, of course (and unfortunately).  But a fair number of 15-25% types have a callback or two (eta: or more, come to think of it, for the people who are within a stone's throw of the 10% mark).


Nice!  Congratulations on your success.  What I'm finding to be true is that grades, more so than in the past, are the cut-off.  Granted, I'm a transfer student so I don't technically have a "rank," but in the past, if a transfer student had 18 interviews, he would normally get about 6-8 call-backs. 

I hope 3L recruiting is better for all of us who don't get anything.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: thorc954 on August 23, 2009, 10:54:12 AM
Oh, and for those 3Ls doing OCI again, last year I was 1/9 during OCI (about 5 were Vault top 10 firms and the others were Vault top 30 firms).  But, words of encouragement, the one callback turned into an offer.  I guess the CDO is correct when they say all you need is one interview, one callback and one offer. 
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: vercingetorix on August 23, 2009, 12:38:53 PM
Tier 1 school. Top third of class. 12 out of 15 callbacks in 2008.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 23, 2009, 08:40:05 PM
18 interviews, 0 callbacks.  Thanks for rubbing it in.

Wally, no offense, but I'm not surprised you bageled OCI.

Well, aren't you just a little a-hole.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 24, 2009, 11:04:05 AM
18 interviews, 0 callbacks.  Thanks for rubbing it in.

Wally, no offense, but I'm not surprised you bageled OCI.

Well, aren't you just a little a-hole.

Just responding in kind to Wally's general a-holeishness. That's all.

How does over-anxiety and a lack of social graces = a-hole?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: M_Cool on August 24, 2009, 01:36:41 PM
has vandy had OCI yet?  cuz if not i wouldn't be talking so soon... it is incredibly competitive this year.. people with 3+ callbacks are bragging at my school.. before that was below average
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on August 24, 2009, 05:19:26 PM
Vandy's OCI started today.

Also, if you've spent any time on these boards, Nudum's comment makes sense. However fair or unfair it is to Wally, he comes off very poorly on here. Considering he gets to choose his words carefully here, well...
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 05:34:14 PM
I love how y'all who have given Wally such *&^% for so long come to his defense so quickly.

(Not that you shouldn't have, because that was pretty mean).
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 05:44:59 PM
I posted earlier in the group.  I'll message you, though, researching places for tomorrow is motherfucking BO-RING.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ;;;;; on August 24, 2009, 06:24:10 PM
I posted earlier in the group.  I'll message you, though, researching places for tomorrow is motherfucking BO-RING.

I hear that.

I am praying for at least a couple call-backs.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 24, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
Maybe FB me, since we are on a public internet forum and all.

or you know, walk down the street and speak in person.

group.  heh.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 06:49:33 PM
Well, alright.

TBF, I don't think that my jump was that much bigger than his rankings-wise.  If you consider W&L's placement issues it's probably more justifiable.

(Not that I really want to get into the merits of transferring v. not but just saying.)
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 06:50:50 PM
Maybe FB me, since we are on a public internet forum and all.

or you know, walk down the street and speak in person.

group.  heh.

Dude, she is like a 20 MINUTE WALK from me.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 24, 2009, 07:05:25 PM
Dude, she is like a 20 MINUTE WALK from me.

LAZY!
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 07:10:42 PM
Dude, I am very busy searching WilmerHale's website trying to come up with something I can say that will make them hire me.

Perhaps a lost cause haha.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 24, 2009, 07:14:14 PM
Dude, I am very busy searching WilmerHale's website trying to come up with something I can say that will make them hire me.

Perhaps a lost cause haha.

tell them that securities litigation really turns you on.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 07:23:24 PM
I am going to have a very hard time doing this in any interviews given that I don't really understand what a security is.

I am going to fail OCI.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 24, 2009, 07:25:30 PM
I am going to have a very hard time doing this in any interviews given that I don't really understand what a security is.

I am going to fail OCI.

you know.  stocks.  derivative suits.

you taking corps this term?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 07:29:15 PM

you taking corps this term?

No.

I'm taking Evidence, Crim Pro, Mental Health Law, and something else that's undecided.

TBF, the reason for this is I decided to wait til spring for the better profs for corps and tax.

Anyway, yeah, I don't know what a derivative suit is.  I only vaguely understand what a stock is . . . (you give a company money and then you own part of it and they send you checks in the mail?  Plus booklets about the company and the shareholders' meeting that I promptly throw away?)
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 24, 2009, 07:56:29 PM
tell them that securities litigation really turns you on.

I sense a mocking tone and my inner finance nerd resents it.*

*It, not you, since you are, of course, the source of all life wisdom, as per usual.

my answer was completely serious.  they do a lot of that stuff.

Anyway, yeah, I don't know what a derivative suit is.  I only vaguely understand what a stock is . . . (you give a company money and then you own part of it and they send you checks in the mail?  Plus booklets about the company and the shareholders' meeting that I promptly throw away?)

derivative suits are suits by shareholders in which they're saying they're suing the directors/officers of the corporation on behalf of the corporation.

you don't need to know that right now though.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 07:58:49 PM
Oh, yes, we touched on that in Civ Pro. 

Anyway, even if I don't NEED to know it I think I'm going to have a hard time convincing someone that I'm interested in securities lit if I don't.  I mean, what would be a plausible reason for anyone being interested in that?  I can't really think of any.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: goaliechica on August 24, 2009, 08:02:25 PM
Oh, yes, we touched on that in Civ Pro. 

Anyway, even if I don't NEED to know it I think I'm going to have a hard time convincing someone that I'm interested in securities lit if I don't.  I mean, what would be a plausible reason for anyone being interested in that?  I can't really think of any.

I didn't know the first thing about anything that large law firms do when I was doing interviews last year, and I did well. They really, really don't expect you to know what you're talking about. It's worse if you try to fake it than if you just say that you're opening to learning new things and trying out different practice areas. Maybe have some line about how you think you're interested in litigation (or transactional - whatever), but you would like to try (the other one) as well to see what it's like in practice. I would not waste your time trying to understand securities before a screening interview.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 24, 2009, 08:06:00 PM
I would not waste your time trying to understand securities before a screening interview.

nor did i mean to suggest that anyone should.

i was just saying...  you know, with that firm...  it would help if you could say that and it was the truth.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 08:16:16 PM
Yeah I think Goalie's advice is generally true but maybe not so much when you're dealing with branch offices with only a few practice areas?  I wouldn't necessarily characterize Wilmer Boston that way but I have another Boston interview tomorrow where the office only has 3 practice areas, one of which is IP.  I had to call a friend I know who works in that area to tell me something about it so I could be like, yes, I am interested in such and such and I'm not just some moron applying to your firm because it looks pretty.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 24, 2009, 08:19:50 PM
Yeah I think Goalie's advice is generally true but maybe not so much when you're dealing with branch offices with only a few practice areas?  I wouldn't necessarily characterize Wilmer Boston that way but I have another Boston interview tomorrow where the office only has 3 practice areas, one of which is IP.  I had to call a friend I know who works in that area to tell me something about it so I could be like, yes, I am interested in such and such and I'm not just some moron applying to your firm because it looks pretty.

i had one of these moments during OCI.

oh yeah, and i was talking about WH dischordtown, so nm.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on August 24, 2009, 08:20:23 PM
5 OCI, 1 callback so far (it's been less than a week).  
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: goaliechica on August 24, 2009, 08:28:01 PM
Yeah I think Goalie's advice is generally true but maybe not so much when you're dealing with branch offices with only a few practice areas?  I wouldn't necessarily characterize Wilmer Boston that way but I have another Boston interview tomorrow where the office only has 3 practice areas, one of which is IP.  I had to call a friend I know who works in that area to tell me something about it so I could be like, yes, I am interested in such and such and I'm not just some moron applying to your firm because it looks pretty.

Fair enough. I do think it's good enough to just know that there limited practice areas, and make sure not to mention a strong interest in something that they don't do. Of course, as Stan mentions, if you are HONESTLY really interested in IP or something, it's good to mention that. And showing that you've at least looked at what practice areas they have is a good idea (but again, not crucial, I don't think). I think it's honestly fine to say "I know your Boston office is strong in securities practice. I'm sure I won't know whether that's something I want to focus on until I try it, as we all know law school doesn't teach you anything about the real practice of law, but I'm really looking forward to learning more about it this summer." (BIG SMILE).
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 08:32:40 PM


oh yeah, and i was talking about WH dischordtown, so nm.

Well I only applied to WH (former) dischordtown . . . wait, are you talking about WH DC, as in my hometown?  Confused.

Gah, I just hear so much conflicting info about this practice area stuff.  Some people take that approach, and then others say that you need to be able to express a real interest in something and back it up. 

I hate this.  I don't understand why it's not acceptable to be like, "I will practice ANY area of law if I can work in Boston.  ANY AT ALL." 
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 24, 2009, 08:53:03 PM
Dude, I am very busy searching WilmerHale's website trying to come up with something I can say that will make them hire me.

Perhaps a lost cause haha.

WilmerHale Boston?  Don't bother.  Killed that interview, dinged today.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 24, 2009, 08:53:43 PM
I love how y'all who have given Wally such *&^% for so long come to his defense so quickly.

(Not that you shouldn't have, because that was pretty mean).

He's like my little brother.  I can make fun of him all I want.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 24, 2009, 08:56:18 PM
Well I can't really "not bother" now since I have to show up.

I didn't initially bid on them for that reason.  But I traded someone for a Philly firm because I was trying to get rid of all my Philly firms so I wouldn't have 3 markets.

I guess if nothing else this is useful for that, if anyone asks about where I bid, insofar as I am interviewing with all three big Boston firms.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 24, 2009, 08:58:36 PM
Also, there's no point at all in researching firms for more than 5 or 10 minutes.  Know the practice group of the interviewer and one fact about the firm that you can spin a question off.  Done and done.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dubsy on August 25, 2009, 09:20:17 AM
4/25+ interviews.  haven't heard from all but am not too optimistic about the remaining. 
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 25, 2009, 05:05:23 PM
We really doing this?

Let's just say I'm killin' it.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 25, 2009, 05:13:54 PM
Two days, 5 interviews, no response  :(
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ;;;;; on August 25, 2009, 05:37:01 PM
transfer to a T14.

8 interviews the last 2 days, no callbacks yet. 4 more tomorrow.

Starting to sweat.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: NeverTrustKlingons on August 25, 2009, 07:17:28 PM
Does this mean transfer to GULC?  You will not be getting callbacks.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 25, 2009, 07:30:37 PM
Two days, 5 interviews, no response  :(

how many left?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ;;;;; on August 25, 2009, 07:41:11 PM
Does this mean transfer to GULC?  You will not be getting callbacks.

thanks for the subtle words of encouragement
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: NeverTrustKlingons on August 25, 2009, 07:57:39 PM
I want it to happen as much as you do, sir.

Just telling you the breaks and how it is.  Welcome to the economy.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 25, 2009, 08:07:48 PM
Two days, 5 interviews, no response  :(

how many left?

19, 3 of which aren't firms.

I don't have high hopes for them, though, a number of the ones left are the most selective places to which I applied.  Like, if I can't get a callback at Winston & Strawn I sure as @#!* am not getting one at Skadden.

I think I'm just going to spend the time I've been spending researching firms to apply to public interest and gov't.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 25, 2009, 08:10:19 PM
Two days, 5 interviews, no response  :(

how many left?

19, 3 of which aren't firms.

I don't have high hopes for them, though, a number of the ones left are the most selective places to which I applied.  Like, if I can't get a callback at Winston & Strawn I sure as @#!* am not getting one at Skadden.

I think I'm just going to spend the time I've been spending researching firms to apply to public interest and gov't.

i'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: NeverTrustKlingons on August 25, 2009, 08:12:14 PM
Quote
I think I'm just going to spend the time I've been spending researching firms to apply to public interest and gov't.

TITMFCR
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 25, 2009, 08:13:51 PM
Quote
I think I'm just going to spend the time I've been spending researching firms to apply to public interest and gov't.

TITMFCR

Well, not even, since I cannot work in DC, gov't is going to be flooded, and straight public interest hiring is arguably worse than firm hiring.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: NeverTrustKlingons on August 25, 2009, 08:15:21 PM
What is your local market?  State / local gov makes fine money.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 08:57:45 AM
What is your local market?  State / local gov makes fine money.

I don't have a "local market".  All my connections are to major markets -- for @#!*'s sake, I grew up in DC.  The secondary market that my new school is in is in absolute shambles (one of the worst), and both state and local gov't are contemplating catastrophic budget cuts so they're definitely not hiring ANYONE.  Oh, and my SO refuses to live there.  Like, flat-out despises the place. 

I give up.  I'm now sitting in interviews and thinking the whole time, Why am I even here?  I have a Ropes interview later this afternoon and I'm honestly contemplating saying to the interviewer to just forget about talking about my resume because I'm obviously unqualified.  Everyone they hired from my old school even before ITE was law review, which I was not.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: NeverTrustKlingons on August 26, 2009, 10:03:05 AM
Well, if you're the breadwinner your SO's opinion on where s/he wants to live isn't outcome-determinative.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: IlliniBoy on August 26, 2009, 10:32:16 AM
Well, if you're the breadwinner your SO's opinion on where s/he wants to live isn't outcome-determinative.

LOL
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 10:42:45 AM
What the hell kind of breadwinner am I going to be with a state/local gov't job?  If he has to keep a job then this market is an absolute no because his industry here is practically nonexistent.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that if faced with the choice between having to stay here indefinitely and breaking up with me to move back home, he'd choose the latter.  And believe me, this is not a comment on how much he cares about me/our relationship -- he really, REALLY hates this place that much.

I don't really want to live here, either.

Anyway, I don't know why people have the idea that secondary markets are hiring.   
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on August 26, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Anyway, I don't know why people have the idea that secondary markets are hiring.   

Its seems to be OK here, not great, but OK, not alot of layoffs, and some new stuff poping up each week. Come out west.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on August 26, 2009, 11:42:22 AM
Any interest in a slightly above median UChicago grad out in Denver, Matthies?  Things are rough out here.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 11:46:05 AM
Anyway, I don't know why people have the idea that secondary markets are hiring.   

Its seems to be OK here, not great, but OK, not alot of layoffs, and some new stuff poping up each week. Come out west.

I might consider it, although I really hate the outdoors and that seems to be something that you need to be into to really fall in love with Denver.

I got a callback though.  Embarrassed by my overreacting, now (not that that's the first time THAT'S ever happened).
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on August 26, 2009, 11:50:08 AM
Any interest in a slightly above median UChicago grad out in Denver, Matthies?  Things are rough out here.

What are your intrests Wally? Are you willing to do anything, or are you lokking for some in particular? The problem with Denver, and its a big problem, is they see anyone as outsiders, so expect a good 1/2 the interview to be inuiring if your seriousse about coming to Denver, or just trying to get into a regional office of a Vault firm till something comes open elsewhere.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on August 26, 2009, 11:52:08 AM
Anyway, I don't know why people have the idea that secondary markets are hiring.   

Its seems to be OK here, not great, but OK, not alot of layoffs, and some new stuff poping up each week. Come out west.

I might consider it, although I really hate the outdoors and that seems to be something that you need to be into to really fall in love with Denver.


LOL, yea, its an outdoorsy place. How do you know someone is from Denver? Becuase they have a 4k bike on top of thier 1k car.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on August 26, 2009, 11:57:05 AM
So when you all are accepting offers are they giving you any assurance that they will have a summer program next year? Or is it something they just are not talking about. Thatís what scares me the most about OCI this year, is your hoping they are going to actually have a summer program a year from now. Letís hope things get better, but if they get worse I bet there will be at least some people left out come next year with nothing on the back burner.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 12:03:16 PM

LOL, yea, its an outdoorsy place. How do you know someone is from Denver? Becuase they have a 4k bike on top of thier 1k car.

Oh my god I hate bicycles.


I'm not big into the outdoors, and I love it here. On another plus side, there are plenty of tattoo/piercing shops in my area.


I do like tattoos, though.

So when you all are accepting offers are they giving you any assurance that they will have a summer program next year? Or is it something they just are not talking about. Thatís what scares me the most about OCI this year, is your hoping they are going to actually have a summer program a year from now. Letís hope things get better, but if they get worse I bet there will be at least some people left out come next year with nothing on the back burner.

We haven't really gotten to this part yet.

You really think that places will go through OCI, make offers, and then cancel their programs?  I guess I can't say that it's not totally inconceivable but it seems like a lot of time + expense, especially since so many places have already cancelled.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on August 26, 2009, 12:11:21 PM

LOL, yea, its an outdoorsy place. How do you know someone is from Denver? Becuase they have a 4k bike on top of thier 1k car.

Oh my god I hate bicycles.


I'm not big into the outdoors, and I love it here. On another plus side, there are plenty of tattoo/piercing shops in my area.


I do like tattoos, though.

So when you all are accepting offers are they giving you any assurance that they will have a summer program next year? Or is it something they just are not talking about. Thatís what scares me the most about OCI this year, is your hoping they are going to actually have a summer program a year from now. Letís hope things get better, but if they get worse I bet there will be at least some people left out come next year with nothing on the back burner.

We haven't really gotten to this part yet.

You really think that places will go through OCI, make offers, and then cancel their programs?  I guess I can't say that it's not totally inconceivable but it seems like a lot of time + expense, especially since so many places have already cancelled.


Well law is one of those few industries that hire 1 year out. Most others donít. We donít know where we are going to be in a year. Unless I had a written guarantee that I had a job 1 year from now I would proceed over the next 12 months like had a ĎmaybeĒ offer contingent on things not getting worse, and hence keep my other options open (networking, keep in contact with professors for SAs, inquire about clerking ect.). Law firms are adjusting to this new market just like we are, they donít know anything other than hire 1 year out, so they may find that model just does not work anymore. I dunno, but things are changing. With many of this years new SAís not starting until next year that seems like a chance for there to be too many new lawyers, not enough work, with summers getting the short end because SA have contracts/offers.  As for Tattoos, seriously, there is a tattoo shop, piecing shop, unground club like on every corner in my hood.   
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 26, 2009, 12:47:25 PM
Anyway, I don't know why people have the idea that secondary markets are hiring.   

Its seems to be OK here, not great, but OK, not alot of layoffs, and some new stuff poping up each week. Come out west.

I might consider it, although I really hate the outdoors and that seems to be something that you need to be into to really fall in love with Denver.

I got a callback though.  Embarrassed by my overreacting, now (not that that's the first time THAT'S ever happened).

lol.

<---curious.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 26, 2009, 01:46:00 PM
also, i think it's generally unlikely that firms will cancel their summer programs after they've hired a summer class.  if there was a summer for that, it was this past one.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on August 26, 2009, 03:25:52 PM
I am willing to go anywhere, for anyone, to do virtually anything ITE.  Denver, Anchorage, Banana City -- I'm geographically flexible.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: NeverTrustKlingons on August 26, 2009, 04:23:32 PM
Quote
I am willing to go anywhere, for anyone, to do virtually anything ITE.

See you in the JAG Corps.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: M_Cool on August 26, 2009, 06:33:06 PM
Attempt #1 to delude ourselves: Economy will make staggering comeback and firms will decide to hire more summers in spring!

Attempt #2: Economy will make staggering comeback and we will make out like banshees at 3L OCI!

Ok.. that's about all I can think of.  Will try to think of more.  :(
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 06:59:20 PM
Quote
I am willing to go anywhere, for anyone, to do virtually anything ITE.

See you in the JAG Corps.

chicks dig a man in uniform, wally

Wally in the military can only end in lulz.

Nice that you changed your name back to the original, reez . . . I've been considering a return to the original avatar myself.  So are you officially taken yet?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 26, 2009, 07:31:54 PM
Nice that you changed your name back to the original, reez . . . I've been considering a return to the original avatar myself.  So are you officially taken yet?

can i request that you change back to original name also?  i still think of you as dischord.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 26, 2009, 07:52:49 PM
In other callback news, I am going out tomorrow night for a pre-cb dinner... with three twenty-something female associates.  Awkward?

i don't see why it would be, unless you're worried you won't be able to avoid sexually harassing them.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 07:53:35 PM
Back to the original.

In other callback news, I am going out tomorrow night for a pre-cb dinner... with three twenty-something female associates.  Awkward?

Big pimpin'?  I like it.  You'll probably get the offer haha.

Where was today's firm and where is tomorrow night's?

I got another callback at a crazy hail mary firm later this afternoon.  Pretty shocked.  Would probably take it immediately (and might be a fool not to).
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 26, 2009, 08:10:29 PM
I think I'll be able to avoid that.  But I don't know man, I feel like it's just going to feel odd.  Like I'm speed-dating or something.

it's business.  business is business.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 08:17:29 PM
Branch offices or head offices?  I think that's a consideration, personally (not that one's better than another but that people seem to have a preference one way or another).

But all else being equal (including firm prestige and health), though, I'd take your school's market both because it's a new place to live and because it's bigger if your home market is where I think it is.

Yeah . . . I'm pretty social so I guess it'll really just come down to how competitive the CB round is.  I'd be stupid not to take the place but I'm pretty sure I'd be miserable there, since it's one of the hellish places.  I had a great interview at a place today where I think QOL is a bit better.  But they've had longer deferrals.

Whatevs.  I'll cross this bridge when I actually have an offer in hand.  I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 26, 2009, 08:19:05 PM
I think I'll be able to avoid that.  But I don't know man, I feel like it's just going to feel odd.  Like I'm speed-dating or something.

it's business.  business is business.

Right, it's a professional setting, and business is business, and so forth.  But a bunch of 23-to-26-year-olds is a bunch of 23-to-26-year-olds, too.  I'm just hoping somebody cracks a joke about it.

...

true.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 08:36:26 PM
Well, I mean, this *&^% matters when scheduling callbacks.  And I do honestly feel a duty to try to reject places quickly so that other people can get offers.  Already I've been asked about callbacks by other transfers who told me got rejections from the same places and I feel awful.  I'm so cheesy . . . I genuinely want everyone to get jobs.

I think I might know at least a couple of the firms you're referring to.  Can't figure out the V30 because I don't really know your market that well.  

Anyway I've actually really liked the branch offices in Boston with whom I've interviewed.  The attorneys really talked up the small office environment and it really didn't seem as insane as I've heard the NY offices are.  But then again, they seem a little crazier that some of the other Boston firms.


Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 08:46:54 PM
You'll probably feel more sure once the recruiting process is over?  I feel like this time is rife with uncertainty.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 26, 2009, 08:52:02 PM
Yes and no.  There's only one NYC callback that would entice, so yes in that respect.  But the hard choice will, in any event, be which city to live in.  I'm truly torn and undecided.  Everybody says 'go with your gut,' which to be fair I usually say, but there's no clear feeling.

I hate that.  People always use that dumb phrase "flip a coin and if you feel bad with the result do the other thing."  Yea, but what if you get that bad feeling from both results (as I did when picking schools)?

You picked the wrong school.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 08:58:08 PM
Um . . . do not move into the exurbs as a 20-something, please.  That's all I have to add in that regard.  I don't think you can go wrong with either of the other cities.  

In a way I feel like I'm at a disadvantage, but at the same time lucky, to have an SO's preferences guiding my job search.  I have a pretty clear first and second choice location.  I guess it would be hard if I got a much better firm in the second choice locale, but that's very unlikely based on the firms I applied to in each market.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 26, 2009, 08:59:18 PM
Yes and no.  There's only one NYC callback that would entice, so yes in that respect.  But the hard choice will, in any event, be which city to live in.  I'm truly torn and undecided.  Everybody says 'go with your gut,' which to be fair I usually say, but there's no clear feeling.

I hate that.  People always use that dumb phrase "flip a coin and if you feel bad with the result do the other thing."  Yea, but what if you get that bad feeling from both results (as I did when picking schools)?

You picked the wrong school.

Too early to call, but judging from the past few nights...

It's not too early.  I'm telling you, as I've told you before.  You picked the wrong school.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 26, 2009, 09:35:35 PM
I'm still around, I just didn't really have anything to add to the Mich v. Penn debate.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on August 27, 2009, 09:05:46 AM
I am willing to go anywhere, for anyone, to do virtually anything ITE.  Denver, Anchorage, Banana City -- I'm geographically flexible.

sent u a pM
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 27, 2009, 12:14:59 PM
I'm still around, I just didn't really have anything to add to the Mich v. Penn debate.

i don't have anything good or bad to say about either place either.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 27, 2009, 01:39:39 PM
I'm still around, I just didn't really have anything to add to the Mich v. Penn debate.

i don't have anything good or bad to say about either place either.

What happened to your mortal hatred of Penn?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 27, 2009, 01:54:06 PM
I'm still around, I just didn't really have anything to add to the Mich v. Penn debate.

i don't have anything good or bad to say about either place either.

What happened to your mortal hatred of Penn?

i was poking fun at myself.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 27, 2009, 02:12:52 PM
Oh, that's always fun.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 27, 2009, 02:17:48 PM
Oh, that's always fun.

oh you know me.  i'm a barrel of laughs.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 28, 2009, 08:28:15 AM
I just had to put 3K worth of *&^% on my own credit card for callbacks.  Are you f-ing kidding, law firms?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Naked Promise on August 28, 2009, 08:43:38 AM
I just had to put 3K worth of poo on my own credit card for callbacks.  Are you f-ing kidding, law firms?

1) Just be grateful you have callbacks.

2) Don't the firms reimburse you?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on August 28, 2009, 08:54:22 AM
I just had to put 3K worth of poo on my own credit card for callbacks.  Are you f-ing kidding, law firms?

1) Just be grateful you have callbacks.

2) Don't the firms reimburse you?

Yeah, but my credit limit isn't much higher than that.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: upgrade on August 28, 2009, 09:57:49 AM
Yeah, but my credit limit isn't much higher than that.

Call credit card company and have limit increased, HTH.

Good luck with that.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on August 28, 2009, 11:57:01 AM
I realize that because of where you go to school you'll have to fly.  But good christ, where are these callbacks -- Japan?  I anticipate two cities costing me at most like a grand.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on August 28, 2009, 12:17:13 PM
firms aren't just paying for flights directly?  how things have changed.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Illini Boy on August 28, 2009, 01:32:26 PM
Mine are. OCS also made that sound like that was the common arrangement. The only thing I need to handle are expenses to and from the airport and extra meals, but those are reimbursed as well, and won't be too much.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on August 31, 2009, 12:25:32 PM
V50 callback.  (Thank God)  What, if anything, should I do to prepare?  I think the interview went well because I threw nervousness to the wind and bantered.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on August 31, 2009, 03:25:04 PM
V50 callback.  (Thank God)  What, if anything, should I do to prepare?  I think the interview went well because I threw nervousness to the wind and bantered.

cool congrats...just be yourself...wait, no..be somebody else people might like  :P
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Naked Promise on August 31, 2009, 07:58:36 PM
V50 callback.  (Thank God)  What, if anything, should I do to prepare?  I think the interview went well because I threw nervousness to the wind and bantered.

cool congrats...just be yourself...wait, no..be somebody else people might like  :P

lulz.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Scentless Apprentice on August 31, 2009, 08:09:24 PM
V50 callback.  (Thank God)  What, if anything, should I do to prepare?  I think the interview went well because I threw nervousness to the wind and bantered.

cool congrats...just be yourself...wait, no..be somebody else people might like  :P

HAHA, I did actually laugh out loud.

Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 01:49:32 PM
Found out my callbacks are "fake" and am now getting rejections from lower V100s.  All my interviews have been going terribly.

Seriously considering dropping out. 
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: 'blueskies on September 01, 2009, 01:53:51 PM
How can you have fake callbacks ???

Also, that sucks.  I'm sorry :-\
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 02:19:23 PM
Some places call back WAY more people than they're interested in.

The rumor this year is that some places are calling people back but have already decided on rejections before you even walk in the door.  The idea is to drum up interest, get people telling other students how nice their callback was, get people to reapply after doing clerkships, etc.

At least for one of my callbacks I'm pretty sure that's what they're doing.  My grades make me woefully unqualified but they know I really want to wind up in their city. 

The other CB is from a place that's doing so horribly I don't even know why they're hiring, and last year gave out 1 offer for every 5 callbacks they offered.

Given the state of public interest hiring right now I think it's fair to say at this point that my situation is hopeless.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 01, 2009, 02:55:13 PM
Thank you for reminding me why I switched to reading art forums like wet canvas.  (Well, that, and some XOXO jerk had it in for me.)
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on September 01, 2009, 03:02:56 PM
dear female wally: please refrain from considering dropping out until you have more reason than the suspicion that your callbacks will not translate into offers.  they might not, but at least wait to see if they don't.

The rumor this year is that some places are calling people back but have already decided on rejections before you even walk in the door.  The idea is to drum up interest, get people telling other students how nice their callback was, get people to reapply after doing clerkships, etc.

i don't see why law firms would even bother doing this given the current climate.  this sounds like the kind of thing that they'd do if there were more of a competition for law students.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 03:45:54 PM

i don't see why law firms would even bother doing this given the current climate.  this sounds like the kind of thing that they'd do if there were more of a competition for law students.

I don't really get it either but DPW, Cleary, etc. really seem to be doing that (calling back a LOT of people and then rejecting them immediately after).

I guess we'll see but it doesn't make me feel very optimistic about my actual callbacks to not be able to land one at firms ranked in the 90s.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on September 01, 2009, 03:59:37 PM
I guess we'll see but it doesn't make me feel very optimistic about my actual callbacks to not be able to land one at firms ranked in the 90s.

this isn't like law school admissions.  it's possible that the places in the 90's just aren't hiring, whereas some of the more highly-ranked firms are.

i got dinged at lower-ranked places than where i ended up as well.  don't sweat it too much.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: nealric on September 01, 2009, 04:13:12 PM
Quote

I guess we'll see but it doesn't make me feel very optimistic about my actual callbacks to not be able to land one at firms ranked in the 90s.

Remember, Vault rankings have nothing to do with selectivity. For example, Patterson Belknap is ranked #98 by Vault but is probably top 20 in terms of selectivity.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 05:00:49 PM
Well yeah . . . I at least tried to take that into account in bidding.

I hate this.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on September 01, 2009, 05:21:07 PM
"Fake" callbacks sound ridiculous.  Cause those firms definitely would have called me back if it was just for shits and giggles.  I'm fun.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 05:43:17 PM
Well, I'm not saying anywhere is just making callbacks and then not hiring anyone.  And obviously some places are making a high percentage of offers.

I'm just saying that something seems fishy.  

I'm sure you don't need to be told this, D., but you have to go in there with a positive attitude.  Relaxing is key.  Worked for Wally.  In any event, @#!* OCI.  You're getting a JD at a legit school.  You're landing on your feet.


Walls, I was & am sorry that the xo thing went down like that.  I wouldn't worry about that poo--it all died quickly.  We miss you here, and I know a couple of us miss seeing you around over there as well.  Get in touch and let me know how's things.

I am not, nor have I ever been, nor WILL I ever be, a relaxed or positive person.

Yeah wtf was up with that xo thing, that was horrible.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on September 01, 2009, 05:59:25 PM
Yeah wtf was up with that xo thing, that was horrible.

link?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 06:04:13 PM
That is one consideration, although because of my location it isn't costing them a grand, I don't think.  

Someone else pointed out to me that last year's callback/offer ratios might be artificially low because of Lehman.

BUT.  A lot of people seem to be getting callbacks at one of my places after horrible interviews.  

ION, I hate employers who require cover letters at screening interviews.  It eats up my research time.

ETA: And apparently another one of my bad firms just sent out CBs today.  FML.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: M_Cool on September 01, 2009, 06:18:55 PM
i don't get the whole "get a job at OCI or dropout" mentality.  what else are you going to do?  do you have a useful undergrad degree or something? 
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 06:24:29 PM
i don't get the whole "get a job at OCI or dropout" mentality.  what else are you going to do?  do you have a useful undergrad degree or something? 

Well this is certainly an issue, and indeed, I ended up in law school because my UG degree was so bloody useless I was working in a grocery store.

I don't know what I'm going to do.  Literally every waking moment that I'm not interviewing I'm either having heart palpitations from abject terror or nearly in tears.


Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on September 01, 2009, 06:25:29 PM
I don't know what I'm going to do.  Literally every waking moment that I'm not interviewing I'm either having heart palpitations from abject terror or nearly in tears.

maybe you should write a book: "how to live with terror".
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: M_Cool on September 01, 2009, 06:34:26 PM
Quote
Well this is certainly an issue, and indeed, I ended up in law school because my UG degree was so bloody useless I was working in a grocery store.

I don't know what I'm going to do.  Literally every waking moment that I'm not interviewing I'm either having heart palpitations from abject terror or nearly in tears.

Seriously chill out.  The job market sucks.  It's not like you can do anything about it.  What are your stats?  I'm a transfer to a T10 and don't have any CBs and I know a lot of people here with 0-1...
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 06:42:52 PM
T25 -> MVP transfer.  I was just outside top 15% at my old school, I also had a notably bad first semester about which interviewers have been commenting  >:(  Secondary journals at both schools. 

Obviously I'm not in awful shape compared to many, many people. 

But I'm thinking I'm not eligible for gov't work because of a colorful past.

I do feel a little better now that I'm prepping for a public defender interview tomorrow, but I'll feel like *&^% if I don't get a callback from that one because my resume etc. screams public defender.


maybe you should write a book: "how to live with terror".

Seriously, I already have decided that I cannot have children because I'm just too high strung.  They'll, like, try going down a slide or something and I'll faint.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on September 01, 2009, 06:57:20 PM
"Fake" callbacks sound ridiculous.  Cause those firms definitely would have called me back if it was just for shits and giggles.  I'm fun.

I wake up every day and think this about you.  Picked out our Murray Hill place yet?  I require a doorman.

Obviously.  We're getting a 4 or 5 bedroom, depending on how many of my friends get jobs.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on September 01, 2009, 07:45:36 PM
Seriously, I already have decided that I cannot have children because I'm just too high strung.  They'll, like, try going down a slide or something and I'll faint.

wait so you're actually like this in real life too?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 01, 2009, 08:03:50 PM
Seriously, I already have decided that I cannot have children because I'm just too high strung.  They'll, like, try going down a slide or something and I'll faint.

wait so you're actually like this in real life too?

Well not so much in public.  My poor boyfriend gets the brunt of it.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: hooloovoo on September 01, 2009, 08:12:32 PM
Well not so much in public.  My poor boyfriend gets the brunt of it.

ha.

be nice to him.

oh, and you'll be fine.  worry less.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 02, 2009, 09:02:49 AM
Found out my callbacks are "fake" and am now getting rejections from lower V100s.  All my interviews have been going terribly.

Seriously considering dropping out.  

Stop thinking like this. Odds are more than once in your career your going to find yourself without a job. What are you going to do then when there is no ďOCIĒ to save you? Give up on being a lawyer because you have to search for a job on your on? Its tough out there, no doubt, but there are ways to land decent jobs other than OCI. If OCI does not work then you turn to plan B, giving up is not even an option. You wonít have the choice to give up when you got a mortgage, family and other bills. Snap out of it, your smart and you can be successful even if OCI does not pan out.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 02, 2009, 09:16:33 AM
Is this sentence pretentious?  I need to start a paper in a way that doesn't blow.

"Proposition 8 teeters above a political abyss, and common sense tells us that irreconcilable views about the definition of marriage, equally cherished by their proponents, cannot co-exist."
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 02, 2009, 09:18:45 AM
Is this sentence pretentious?  I need to start a paper in a way that doesn't blow.

"Proposition 8 teeters above a political abyss, and common sense tells us that irreconcilable views about the definition of marriage, equally cherished by their proponents, cannot co-exist."

I like it, assuming that's your arguemnt your going to follow with.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Naked Promise on September 02, 2009, 09:24:16 AM
Is this sentence pretentious?  I need to start a paper in a way that doesn't blow.

"Proposition 8 teeters above a political abyss, and common sense tells us that irreconcilable views about the definition of marriage, equally cherished by their proponents, cannot co-exist."

Why are you posting this in this thread?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Scentless Apprentice on September 02, 2009, 12:40:36 PM
I agree with your edit, reez. Much less vicious.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Scentless Apprentice on September 02, 2009, 12:47:19 PM
::makes mental note to stay on reez's good side::
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Scentless Apprentice on September 02, 2009, 01:03:55 PM
Avoid being cruel to my friends, and you're good.

Ok. I would hate for to you ever have reason to release my friend count.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 02, 2009, 01:18:37 PM
Dischord, please calm down.  Despite the worry, there are A LOT of people here who are doing worse than you callback-wise (especially those interviewing in your primary market, since it is slow).  Also, your thought that you are underqualified for one of your CB firms does not mean that you can definitively assume your CB is "fake."  I don't know which of your two you feel like a ton of people are getting interviews at, but I don't know many who have CBs at either of your firms.  Go charm them, etc. and see what happens.  Also, fwiw, I have gotten dings/haven't been called by a ton (most) of the firms I interviewed with, and many are lower Vault-ranked than those I have CBs with.  Vault is clearly not the be-all here.  CHILL, at least for now, while we are still waiting to see how things pan out.

Also, did you find out which journal you're on and not tell me?

Okay I feel better today, even though I got like a bajillion rejections from NOT necessarily lower ranked but still TTT places.  I just do not get OCI ITE.  I don't understand what these different places are looking for. 

I just do not like uncertainty.

And yeah, I'm on Con Law.




Stop thinking like this. Odds are more than once in your career your going to find yourself without a job. What are you going to do then when there is no ďOCIĒ to save you? Give up on being a lawyer because you have to search for a job on your on? Its tough out there, no doubt, but there are ways to land decent jobs other than OCI. If OCI does not work then you turn to plan B, giving up is not even an option. You wonít have the choice to give up when you got a mortgage, family and other bills. Snap out of it, your smart and you can be successful even if OCI does not pan out.

I guess that even if this is not actually true, my gut reaction is that if these places are bothering to show up because they WANT students from my school and I can't get a job, then other places will be even HARDER to get a job with.

(I know this is not true).

I just really, really do not do well with uncertainty.  Also, like I said, I really got burned coming out of college.  I live in mortal fear of having to go back to work at Whole Foods because I have another degree but no work experience.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 02, 2009, 02:45:56 PM
There is massive uncertainty, but you're not alone in feeling it.  I distract myself by doing non-LS activities with non-LS people.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 02, 2009, 04:52:31 PM
Yeah that will be easier when the on-campus part of this whole process is over.  I don't really do much but interview and prepare to interview.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on September 02, 2009, 06:23:13 PM
I got like a bajillion rejections from NOT necessarily lower ranked but still TTT places.  I just do not get OCI ITE.  I don't understand what these different places are looking for.

Maybe your sense of entitlement and condescension to these "TTT" places came across in your interviews? Maybe they're looking for somebody who actually wants to be at the firm, and somebody who intends to be there long-term?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Naked Promise on September 02, 2009, 06:41:56 PM
I got like a bajillion rejections from NOT necessarily lower ranked but still TTT places.  I just do not get OCI ITE.  I don't understand what these different places are looking for.

Maybe your sense of entitlement and condescension to these "TTT" places came across in your interviews? Maybe they're looking for somebody who actually wants to be at the firm, and somebody who intends to be there long-term?

Hey, hey. Enough with the common sense around here. Geez.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 02, 2009, 06:51:19 PM
I got like a bajillion rejections from NOT necessarily lower ranked but still TTT places.  I just do not get OCI ITE.  I don't understand what these different places are looking for.

Maybe your sense of entitlement and condescension to these "TTT" places came across in your interviews? Maybe they're looking for somebody who actually wants to be at the firm, and somebody who intends to be there long-term?

Oh for @#!*'s sake that is not what I meant and I dare say you know it and are just being incendiary.  

While a couple of these places weren't my first choice because of wariness of deferrals/layoffs/whatever, I did a ton of research before bidding and chose my bids based on niche practice area strengths.  My first choice firm is by no means uber prestigious, and I'd take it in a second over much higher ranked places.  Moreover, my interviews at these went seemingly well, thanks -- actually, I thought they were better than the ones where I've gotten callbacks.  I put a ton of time into prepping for these interviews because I wasn't sure how firms would react to transfers this year and I thought that these were the places where I had a legitimate shot.

Some firms have just traditionally been FAR less selective than others, and there are other firms that, in addition to always having been unselective, are in horrible economic trouble right now but are nevertheless extending a fair number of callbacks to people with similar credentials to mine.  Since I got reamed for using Vault as a loose proxy, what do YOU suggest I say to convey my surprise at getting across-the-board rejections from places that in a normal economy would take below median or even bottom third kids from MVP while getting callbacks from places that usually took kids with much better grades?  I know that this isn't as predictable as law school admissions but if you knew the firms and my numbers, I think you'd also think that it's a little bit off.  All I am trying to do here is describe my OCI results while giving as little identifying info about the firms as possible.

All that said, as much as I will be unfathomably grateful to get ANY job ITE, I think it's ridiculous to pretend that this has made all of these firms unique snowflakes who by just giving any of us a callback are performing an act of incredible condescension and graciousness.  
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on September 02, 2009, 08:24:29 PM
Actually, I responded to precisely what I believe you meant. And almost prefaced it with something, like, "I know this is going to incite, but it's more constructive than anything else." I decided against it because I knew it'd be a losing battle to do anything more.

I don't think putting a lot of effort into research (hey, you want a job) excludes thinking you're too good for a firm. I interviewed with an insurance defense firm that, frankly, I thought I was too good for - moral superiority or something, even while believing everybody deserves adequate counsel. Yet, I still researched the firm like crazy because I wanted to be prepared because I wanted a job. I need to pay off these loans in 2 years, after all. Did I fool them? I'm not sure yet. They make callback decisions in late September (this was outside OCI). But I wouldn't be surprised if my admittedly bad attitude snuck through.

You'll probably deny that you share this same attitude w/r/t any of these firms. Perhaps so. But if I think it's plenty plausible that even a joking attitude ("still TTT places") has some root in reality. And this reality can come across.

Anyhow, if people with similar stats are getting callbacks, and you're not, something is up. Hopefully a little honesty will help you figure that out. Good luck with that and good luck with finding a job.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on September 02, 2009, 10:11:49 PM
Waaah. Somebody said something negative to one of your friends. Something is clearly up for her. The point is that perception can trump reality. Surprise, surprise.

Also, what makes "despite reportedly being a complete goober himself" ok for you to say? Is it that you separated personal judgment with "reportedly"? Or is this thread only a circle jerk and us vandy assholes didn't get the memo?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on September 02, 2009, 11:14:50 PM
Whatever it is, hopefully she gets it figured out soon. On that note, I did take her comments to mean that others were doing better than her that, all else equal (i.e. gpa, school), shouldn't have been. TTT to refer to, well, everything is definitely a pastime for me too. I'd hope you'd agree that, in the context of her post, it's not the same. I didn't have reason to, nor did I have to put much effort towards, my reading. Also, no sarcasm in my post at all. I might have had a lightish tone, but it wasn't sarcasm. Anyhow, rather than kicking her while she's down, let's just move on.

I don't doubt that you have your sources (I know both where you went to ugrad and where he went to 1L), but my point had less to do with him, and more to do with the relationship of the comment to the poster in both cases. Both were harsh comments. Yours based on other people, his based on Wally's online demeanor. Is it really that much different? Probably not, but then again I don't buy into this sharp distinction between online person and IRL person. Wally isn't much different on his facebook either, for better or worse. Maybe that falls on the online side. I don't know. Either way, vandy-transfer's comment is mild on the scale of wallyCommentsThatMakeYouGoWHA T.

In any case, despite what you may think from your comments re: vandy in this thread (which you couldn't totally believe if you're to be consistent with your comments re: wally online and IRL), I can assure you that we'll all give our new transfer a chance. If he made mistakes at W&L, hopefully he doesn't make them again at Vandy. I've only met him once. He was nice enough to come up to me and introduce himself. Hopefully he finds his place here. Life is tough as a transfer, I'm sure.

PS I just reread this and it's a bit...something. I don't even know the word. I have swine flu, so be nice.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: M_Cool on September 03, 2009, 01:51:56 AM
ITT contra brevity
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 03, 2009, 06:03:14 AM
You all a bunch of elitist entilted assholes. There I said it. Not like you did not know I would say that, but still its out there, ponder that. By the way it does seem like there is a sense of entitlement in this thread. Like the law firms should be interviewing at your schools should be hiring people from your schools, like that is their job or something. Like they OWE you that. Law firms having bigger things to worry about in this economy than finding you a job.

You should all be really grateful that a) firms are hiring at all, b) firms are coming to your schools to do it, c) relatively speaking its takes every little effort on your part to get in front of these people for an interview (compared to someone who does not have OCI).

Jesus Christ, get some prospective you all acting like these firms owe you an interview because you go to school X or Y. Get over yourselves and be glad youíre not fitghting it an some T4 for the 3 OCI slots they have open.  Iím sorry OCI is not resulting in all of you getting Cravath offers, but for crying out loud your all doing better than most law students. Things could be a lot worse you know than having 10 interviews in the worst economy in 60 years, like having NONE. Be gratefull for what you have instead of bitter about what you think you deserve.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: dischord on September 03, 2009, 09:28:15 AM
Thanks, reez.  I had no idea that "ttt" was such a polarizing term.  Jesus H., you'd think I'd busted out a racial slur or something by the way some people are reacting.

I'm about to get on a train so I'm not even going to bother addressing the elitism/entitlement point, because any sense of entitlement that's being imputed to my posts is entirely a result of either poor wording on my part or misinterpretation on others.  I'm extremely lucky to have transferred, and I'm EXTREMELY lucky to have come out of OCI as a transfer with as many CBs as I have (FTR, I have 5 now).  I never said I deserved *&^%, I'm pointing out what I think is odd about my interviewing experience and trying to figure out what it means.

ALL I am saying is that there are other transfers who got callbacks from firms I didn't, but who didn't get callbacks at places where I did.  There's some overlap in where we've gotten them.  In terms of raw numbers I'm doing better than most, so I don't think it's a problem with interviewing skills.  For all I know it could just be a fit thing (I know one transfer from my old school who's interviewing in our old school's market as well, and I've gotten CBs everywhere he's gotten dings and vice versa, which is also weird since he had better grades). 

Anyway, like I said, I just do not see what is objectionable about being surprised at getting swift rejections from places that are less selective than the places that are interested in me.  And the economy is PRECISELY why I'm surprised, because the more logical shift in recruitment patterns would be that everyone is looking for top 10% + LR (in which case I'd not have any callbacks at all), or that firms' criteria have adjusted upwards across the board (in which case I'd probably be striking out at the upper range and getting more stuff in the lower range of where I interviewed).  But instead, it just seems to be really random, and not just for me.

Oh, and Matthies, re networking, I'm taking advantage of people's connections to my old firm/colleagues like whoa.  I definitely think that having worked for people my interviewers knew played a role in at least a couple of my CBs. 
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 03, 2009, 03:28:16 PM
I was yelling buuurnns.   :-[
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 03, 2009, 04:40:51 PM
You all a bunch of elitist entilted assholes. There I said it. Not like you did not know I would say that, but still its out there, ponder that. By the way it does seem like there is a sense of entitlement in this thread. Like the law firms should be interviewing at your schools should be hiring people from your schools, like that is their job or something. Like they OWE you that. Law firms having bigger things to worry about in this economy than finding you a job.

You should all be really grateful that a) firms are hiring at all, b) firms are coming to your schools to do it, c) relatively speaking its takes every little effort on your part to get in front of these people for an interview (compared to someone who does not have OCI).

Jesus Christ, get some prospective you all acting like these firms owe you an interview because you go to school X or Y. Get over yourselves and be glad youíre not fitghting it an some T4 for the 3 OCI slots they have open.  Iím sorry OCI is not resulting in all of you getting Cravath offers, but for crying out loud your all doing better than most law students. Things could be a lot worse you know than having 10 interviews in the worst economy in 60 years, like having NONE. Be gratefull for what you have instead of bitter about what you think you deserve.


Do you even read these threads before you post, or do you just look at the thread title and copy and paste this same rant every time?  We get it man, 1) you don't like T14 elitists, 2) you are awesome tha got lots of job offers, even though they weren't handed to you. Why don't you just put those two things in your sig, then you won't have to make another 6000 posts saying the same exact thing.

To the 2Ls, don't worry about what this guy says, it seems like he's just looking for any opportunity to make another one of his self-congratulatory posts. The entitled/elitist BS in his rant is not at all the vibe I got from this thread. Good luck to you all.

Yes, I'm smater, better loking, nice and an all around better guy than you. And you know it. Yet your sense of sacrasm meter is broken dipshit.

If you canít see that this thread is just oozing with ďwhoa is me I only got X interviews, the sky is falling paranoiaĒ and someone needs to step in the slap some reality around to help folks relazie that as things go there still doing pretty good rather than wanting to quit school becuase X number of calls back then youíre too stuck on your high horse and need to come down here and play with me in the slop for awhile.

You want to personally attack me, thatís fine but Iíll cut you like a little female dog if you continue. Iíll put my body of work and advice I have given to posetrs T14 and T4 and everything in between on this forum up any day against your *&^%. So step the %^&* back or itís on.

<pulls knife with best westside story grimice>
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 03, 2009, 04:42:58 PM
Oh and I just bought a Mac Book Pro, so I'm also more trendy than you.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 03, 2009, 08:16:56 PM
You all a bunch of elitist entilted assholes. There I said it. Not like you did not know I would say that, but still its out there, ponder that. By the way it does seem like there is a sense of entitlement in this thread. Like the law firms should be interviewing at your schools should be hiring people from your schools, like that is their job or something. Like they OWE you that. Law firms having bigger things to worry about in this economy than finding you a job.

You should all be really grateful that a) firms are hiring at all, b) firms are coming to your schools to do it, c) relatively speaking its takes every little effort on your part to get in front of these people for an interview (compared to someone who does not have OCI).

Jesus Christ, get some prospective you all acting like these firms owe you an interview because you go to school X or Y. Get over yourselves and be glad youíre not fitghting it an some T4 for the 3 OCI slots they have open.  Iím sorry OCI is not resulting in all of you getting Cravath offers, but for crying out loud your all doing better than most law students. Things could be a lot worse you know than having 10 interviews in the worst economy in 60 years, like having NONE. Be gratefull for what you have instead of bitter about what you think you deserve.


Do you even read these threads before you post, or do you just look at the thread title and copy and paste this same rant every time?  We get it man, 1) you don't like T14 elitists, 2) you are awesome tha got lots of job offers, even though they weren't handed to you. Why don't you just put those two things in your sig, then you won't have to make another 6000 posts saying the same exact thing.

To the 2Ls, don't worry about what this guy says, it seems like he's just looking for any opportunity to make another one of his self-congratulatory posts. The entitled/elitist BS in his rant is not at all the vibe I got from this thread. Good luck to you all.

Yes, I'm smater, better loking, nice and an all around better guy than you. And you know it. Yet your sense of sacrasm meter is broken dipshit.

If you canít see that this thread is just oozing with ďwhoa is me I only got X interviews, the sky is falling paranoiaĒ and someone needs to step in the slap some reality around to help folks relazie that as things go there still doing pretty good rather than wanting to quit school becuase X number of calls back then youíre too stuck on your high horse and need to come down here and play with me in the slop for awhile.

You want to personally attack me, thatís fine but Iíll cut you like a little female dog if you continue. Iíll put my body of work and advice I have given to posetrs T14 and T4 and everything in between on this forum up any day against your poo. So step the %^&* back or itís on.

<pulls knife with best westside story grimice>

What does your body of posts, which I agree is much more extensive than mine, have to do with you calling the 2Ls assholes in this thread. I agree you're generally helpful, but that's not what I got from that post. All I see here in that post is some unwarranted name calling. It was weird and uncalled for, even if it's called for in other threads. I really don't see the thread oozing with what you say it is - is it possible for you to read a thread about people talking about their OCI disappointments without it being about elitism/entitlement? But whatever, I'll let you get the last word after this.

First off I did not callout an individuals as a-hole, it was a class of assholes including everyone in thread as a group. inculduind your classmates and nothers. If I want to call somomeout individually, I will and they will know it.

Re-read the threads, the purpose of the thread and the responses themselves. The threat was created to find out how many OCIs other were getting. Then it begin commiseration about how bad it was, how crappy the firms were that dropped out of did not call back. Latter it was how crappy the firms were TTT that did no call back. Throughout the thread the comparison was made to other school and other years for how bad this years have compared to then. Maybe a better wrd than elitest would have been "self centeerted" belief that they are owned something simly becuase that school use to do well for classes behind tham, so where's my cookike?

No discussion of how it might be worse for others, or how the firms that are not hiring may be smart or doing that on purpose because they are already over stretched. From beginning to end it was filled with, either oververtly, or maybe so unnoticeable to those in it, that they somehow deserved better OCI then they got. That I have a problem with, we desiver only what we get, not what we think we are owed for nothing more than bidding ona frim a week ago you likley did not even know existed.

Yes firms have always hired for you schools, but no so much this year. It sucks yes, but it not the end of the world. Like if all firms decided to sit out 2010 OCI what would you say then. You would all be pissed off because you have come to expect firms hiring from your school every year. Call it what you want, but its entitlement plain and simple. You all feel your entitled o the same things your classmates where, damn the economy those firms should be thing about US, not them. Thatís how it comes across.
 
I really donít care how you our anyone else finds a job, but if you strike out in OCI, as some of you will, then the only other option out there is what I have been recommended for years. Once you get past your deer in the headlights OCI thing and it does not work, your either going to have to admit this your you werenít so elite, or realize its not the purpose of firm to hire folks in a down economy, no is it that youíre a bad lawyer because you did not get picked.

You got no right, other than a self centered elitism view of this whole thing to female dog that firm X only took 4, or firms Y dropped out. Many of you are acting like you deserve a job. An if that job the one you think fits your level and status, does not come, then some of you might drop out. Thatís not elitist? For all the people in this thread missing out, IS ANYONE but me offer in constructive advice on what do if that happens. No. So its not advice you want to hear, sorry, what you want hear is its all going to be better, and those mean firms screwed us, cause they OWED us.

Whatever. You got any advice for them in the choices between no OCI or quitting school, or are you just here to attack me because I might have bruised your ego in the shotgun blast that was my post. Secondly I always use myself as a example, I know you love to think its because I want qudduios for what I have done. Actually that part I could care less about. I use myself as an example, because unlike 99.99% of LSD posters I HAVE ACTUAL DONE ALL THE *&^% I TALK ABOUT. Believe me, my life and intellectual pursuits would be much easier if I could just take the low road, talk out of my ass like an expert and let people believe me. Instead I make in plainly clear by using myself as an examples, that Iíve walked the talk. While others just walk backwards and talk out of their asses. 
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 03, 2009, 11:04:36 PM
WTF was that.

Drunk Wally taking ?s.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 04, 2009, 04:55:07 AM
whayever, welcome to the new meaner Matthies. I say what I wanna say. Also I was pretty drunk when I wrote that, I should post drunl more often to get a rise out of all of you.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Majmun on September 04, 2009, 04:57:20 AM
Oh and I just bought a Mac Book Pro, so I'm also more trendy than you.

The MBP is so 2006.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 04, 2009, 06:34:47 AM
Oh and I just bought a Mac Book Pro, so I'm also more trendy than you.

The MBP is so 2006.

Its my first forey into the dark side of computing
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 04, 2009, 06:36:36 AM
Some good news:

Study: US Government Will Need to Go on Hiring Binge, Legal Jobs Included
Posted Sep 3, 2009, 06:31 am CDT
By Debra Cassens Weiss

A study by a think tank says the federal government needs to hire more than 270,000 workers in ďmission-criticalĒ jobs, and the legal sector is one of five fields where more workers are needed.

The study by the Partnership for Public Service says hiring will need to be beefed up, partly to replace retiring baby boomers, the Washington Post reports. More workers will also be needed to handle new challenges planned by the Obama administration, such as repair of the financial sector and climate change.

The survey says most of the new workers will be needed in five fields: medical, security, law enforcement, legal and administrative. A separate chart published by the Washington Post puts the number of legal hires needed at 23,596, and says the total number of federal employees in the legal field currently stands at 75,420.

The story says the study, based on a survey of 35 agencies, is ďnecessarily imprecise,Ē since it depends on unknowns such as actual retirements, government use of outsourcing, and Congressí budget appropriations.

Max Stier, president and chief executive of the Partnership for Public Service, told the newspaper that, despite the bad economy, many federal agencies will have to fight to attract top talent, especially in fields where private-sector salaries are higher than government pay.

The fields most likely to see competition with the private sector, he said, are legal, medical and information technology.

http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/study_us_government_will_need_to_go_on_hiring_binge_legal_jobs_included
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 04, 2009, 07:11:14 AM
whayever, welcome to the new meaner Matthies. I say what I wanna say. Also I was pretty drunk when I wrote that, I should post drunl more often to get a rise out of all of you.

Lol, you're a strange guy.

Anyone can bash TTTs and get their students riled up. But Iím one of the few who can do it to the T14 and get all you guys to stop your bitter infighting between Mich, Vandy, CCN, and HYS. That takes talent. Only a true instigator can get you all to stop back bighting and fighting against a common enemy. I am the TTT bashing yang/yang, I take it to the streets man.   
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 04, 2009, 08:05:38 AM
whayever, welcome to the new meaner Matthies. I say what I wanna say. Also I was pretty drunk when I wrote that, I should post drunl more often to get a rise out of all of you.

Lol, you're a strange guy.

Anyone can bash TTTs and get their students riled up. But Iím one of the few who can do it to the T14 and get all you guys to stop your bitter infighting between Mich, Vandy, CCN, and HYS. That takes talent. Only a true instigator can get you all to stop back bighting and fighting against a common enemy. I am the TTT bashing yang/yang, I take it to the streets man.  

You were the only person riled up. I imagine everyone else is just doing a combination of cringing/laughing/rolling their eyes at your last few posts as you alternate between insanity and terrible attempts at humor.

That's my job here. Got you out of your UC cave didn't it?
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 04, 2009, 08:09:03 AM
Anouther decent arctile from the ABA pertaining to job search, although I WTF at the suggested conversation starters.

Reluctant to Network? Try These Tips and ĎStarter Questionsí
Posted Aug 18, 2009, 09:00 am CDT
By Debra Cassens Weiss

Lawyers who are reluctant to network often voice fears that they donít know how to make conversation, or that the conversations they join are shallow and boring.

Lawyer coach Debra Bruce says lawyers will find it easier to break the ice if they come equipped with starter questions to get the conversation rolling. Writing in the Legal Intelligencer, she lists several examples, including:

ē How is the economy affecting you or your business?

ē If you were the president, how would you fix ___? (Fill in the blank yourself).

ē What kind of summer vacations did you enjoy as a kid?

ē How is your workplace handling generational differences?

Lawyers donít need a snappy comeback or brilliant insights during these conversations. But it is important to listen and ask follow-up questions. Afterward, lawyers can send articles to the people they meet on the subject of their conversations.

Bruce offers other tips. One of them: Go to networking events with the goal of helping other people, even if itís pointing them to the restroom or suggesting an online resource. Another tip: Networking is about building relationships, so lawyers will need to make repeat appearances.

http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/reluctant_to_network_try_these_tips_and_starter_questions
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 04, 2009, 08:48:13 AM
If someone asked me about my favorite summer vacations as a kid, I would walk away.  Then again, I'm not exactly the most socially adept guy.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Naked Promise on September 04, 2009, 08:57:49 AM

ē What kind of summer vacations did you enjoy as a kid?

Bruce offers other tips. One of them: Go to networking events with the goal of helping other people, even if itís pointing them to the restroom or suggesting an online resource.

Pointing them to the bathroom? No offense, but I'm going with the goal to meet people.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 04, 2009, 10:09:39 AM
If someone asked me about my favorite summer vacations as a kid, I would walk away.  Then again, I'm not exactly the most socially adept guy.

That's what I'm saying, these are stupid conversation starters. Better ones and ones I have used in the past:

What type of law do you practice? Follow up with: Iím not really familiar with that, but its sounds interesting, whatís the anatomy of a typical case, I mean how do you get them and how do the usually proceed? Then ask what is your favaiorte type of case that comes in and why? Least favorite? Or ask about favorite or least favorite law school classes (this gives you something in common to talk about) or favorite professors if alumina. Or what they think the best classes are for practical skills, or for their industry. What drew them to law school. Why did they pick that practice area. Where do the see the future of litigation (if a litigator). What skills should I hone as a students for transactional work. What they would do different in law school knowing what they know now. Ect. 

All these will get you started talking to a stranger then just carry the conversation forward. After the initial meeting follow up with an e-mail. Say you enjoyed talking with them and if you could buy them lunch next month and pick their brain again. Do that a few times and your formed a friendship/mentor relationship.

The hardest part is just geeting up the guts to go into a room of strangers and talk to people. If you can get past that part (and this is hard for me, I break out ina sweat) then everything else is gravy.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Matthies on September 04, 2009, 10:11:07 AM

ē What kind of summer vacations did you enjoy as a kid?

Bruce offers other tips. One of them: Go to networking events with the goal of helping other people, even if itís pointing them to the restroom or suggesting an online resource.

Pointing them to the bathroom? No offense, but I'm going with the goal to meet people.

Agreed, but I have used the suggesting an online resource in the past, espcially for blogs related to a pratice ara that the person is in. That's a good suggestion.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: eat it on September 04, 2009, 10:20:57 PM
whayever, welcome to the new meaner Matthies. I say what I wanna say. Also I was pretty drunk when I wrote that, I should post drunl more often to get a rise out of all of you.

Lol, you're a strange guy.

Anyone can bash TTTs and get their students riled up. But Iím one of the few who can do it to the T14 and get all you guys to stop your bitter infighting between Mich, Vandy, CCN, and HYS. That takes talent. Only a true instigator can get you all to stop back bighting and fighting against a common enemy. I am the TTT bashing yang/yang, I take it to the streets man.   

Shameless Vandy and subtle Mich trolling.
Title: Re: How Many Call-Backs Have You Received?
Post by: Slumdog Lovebutton on September 06, 2009, 11:40:48 AM
13/16