Law School Discussion

Law Students => Transferring => Topic started by: takumi on July 26, 2009, 03:58:36 PM

Title: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: takumi on July 26, 2009, 03:58:36 PM
I was recently admitted to GULC with a grant of 10k per year.  I am still waiting to hear from NYU and Columbia.  On the off chance I get admitted to either in the next few weeks, what do you think would be the better option.  I doubt NYU or Columbia will provide any money so the decision will come down to 10K with GULC or no money and NYU/Columbia. 

I have an interest to work in the federal government or public interest generally but don't want to rule out firm work either.  I definitely want to stay on the east coast and preferably the north east such as NYC or Philly but like DC too.  Will top 5 schools make a real difference in my job search and should a total savings of 20k keep me from going for those top 5 schools?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: big - fat - box on July 26, 2009, 04:06:05 PM
There is a significant difference in job propects between these schools.

Considering how expensive they all are, $20K is a pretty negligible difference. I would go to Columbia/NYU if it becomes an option, even if you want to be in DC eventually.

If you want public/interest govt, I've heard that NYU has one of the best LRAP programs out there. As for big firm jobs: the OCI deadlines may have passed at these schools already. If so, getting a big firm job is going to be tough. Also consider that the economy is in the toilet right now and big firm hiring has been seriously curtailed compared to what it was in past years.
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: raheeltransfers on July 27, 2009, 07:41:52 AM
Hi there, congrats on GULC decision and best of luck on NYC/Columbia.
Can you please tell us when were you admitted to GULC?, and whether it was part-time or full-time? 
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: Resident CLS Troll on July 27, 2009, 07:46:06 AM
Obviously I have a horse in this race.  That said, ditto bfb's comment that there is a significant difference in job prospects.  The gap is probably worth significantly more than $20k.
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: gmasonlaw on July 27, 2009, 09:04:14 AM
Congrats!  It's very impressive that you were selected for the grant.   But, I do agree with the previous poster's comment that $20k is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.   If you are debating between taking $20k to go to a lower ranked school (i.e. GULC) or sacrificing $20k to attend your Big Apple dream school,  I would confidently choose the latter.

If it weren't tied down to the D.C. area, I would definitely have applied to Columbia!
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: scgl on July 27, 2009, 09:40:53 AM
The other posters are correct to note the placement differences; however, if you really are set on going down the government or public interest paths the money can be important and Georgetown would be a great place to go (esp. w/10k), particularly if you want to work for the Federal Government in the long-term. 
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: big - fat - box on July 27, 2009, 04:32:44 PM
I wouldn't choose a school based on fed. govt. jobs. Fed govt jobs for entry level attys are much, much less plentiful than most law students realize. If you don't believe me, ask your school for access to the "Arizona Govt Honors Handbook". It goes through each agency and details the number of apps and spots available. You'd be surprised how many agencies hire less than 10 people annually, and those agencies recruit nationally. With the economy and GULC's huge class size, lots of students there are going to be fighting over the few fed govt jobs available and no agency is going to fill all their slots with GULC students.
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: Red Rocket on July 27, 2009, 07:39:50 PM
I've looked at the Govt Honors Handbook in the past and it seemed that the average # of people hired for total applicants was about 3%.  FCC was one of the higher ones with some departments at 7% and some other agencies were less than 1%.  This was back when the economy was good.

Doesn't NYU have a much better LRAP than GULC anyway?
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: takumi on July 28, 2009, 11:16:47 AM
Thanks to everyone for their input.  I guess I don't really have to worry about it unless I get into either Columbia or NYU and since I have yet to hear anything, I'm assuming my chances are not as good as I believed them to be. 
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: vansondon on July 28, 2009, 11:50:03 AM
Man would I love to have this dilemma.  Georgetown with money or NYU/Columbia.  Oh the agony!!
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: 42kilometers on July 30, 2009, 06:27:33 AM
FYI, while the bidding deadline for OCI has passed for continuing students at NYU, they leave spots open for transfers, who don't bid until August 10th.  If you are accepted, you have until August 7th to accept their offer and still take part in OCI with no prejudice whatsoever.

As for CLS, on the other hand, their bidding deadline is today.  So if you are accepted, keep in mind that you probably can't particpate in their OCI, and if you can, you will be at a severe disadvantage.
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: thorc954 on July 30, 2009, 07:02:47 AM
I was recently admitted to GULC with a grant of 10k per year.  I am still waiting to hear from NYU and Columbia.  On the off chance I get admitted to either in the next few weeks, what do you think would be the better option.  I doubt NYU or Columbia will provide any money so the decision will come down to 10K with GULC or no money and NYU/Columbia. 


I would chose NYU or Columbia over G-town in a second...  Even if I had a full ride to G-town.  Its a great school, but it is certainly a step below the others.  Money comes and goes, there is something to be said for getting the best education available. 
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: just Trev on July 30, 2009, 07:45:52 AM
columbia. 

TITCR.
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: scgl on July 30, 2009, 08:49:52 AM
I agree that Columbia is probably the best overall choice and is likely worth the money (if you are not too worried about the extra debt in the long-term). It has great legal prestige and excellent lay prestige (which people should not completely discount). Better in both regards than NYU and G-Town. However, don't listen to the guy talking about getting the "best legal education." The actual education will be very similar at all three (good profs and smart students). The places where you would likely learn the "most" and have the most accessible profs. are not the top law schools (where they focus mostly on their research and teaching is something they love but that is secondary). You have only good options here!
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: thorc954 on July 30, 2009, 12:33:23 PM
I agree that Columbia is probably the best overall choice and is likely worth the money (if you are not too worried about the extra debt in the long-term). It has great legal prestige and excellent lay prestige (which people should not completely discount). Better in both regards than NYU and G-Town. However, don't listen to the guy talking about getting the "best legal education." The actual education will be very similar at all three (good profs and smart students). The places where you would likely learn the "most" and have the most accessible profs. are not the top law schools (where they focus mostly on their research and teaching is something they love but that is secondary). You have only good options here!

not true, columbia and nyu have smarter students, which pays off in terms of whatever you actually get out of the socratic approach. 
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: scgl on July 30, 2009, 12:52:57 PM
1. Very few of your upper level classes will be Socratic.
2. The difference in the students is very small once you get to the T14. I don't really think "smarter" is too accurate, so you should be especially pleased with the placement boost you would get at CLS over NYU or Gtown. The very top few students at CLS may well be special though because of their excellent grant programs (as in turned down YHS).

School       Median GPA       Median LSAT
Columbia:        3.71           172
NYU:             3.70           171
GTOWN:           3.65           169  (that is with PT)
Day              3.67           170
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: Susan B. Anthony on July 30, 2009, 12:55:03 PM
I agree that Columbia is probably the best overall choice and is likely worth the money (if you are not too worried about the extra debt in the long-term). It has great legal prestige and excellent lay prestige (which people should not completely discount). Better in both regards than NYU and G-Town. However, don't listen to the guy talking about getting the "best legal education." The actual education will be very similar at all three (good profs and smart students). The places where you would likely learn the "most" and have the most accessible profs. are not the top law schools (where they focus mostly on their research and teaching is something they love but that is secondary). You have only good options here!

not true, columbia and nyu have smarter students, which pays off in terms of whatever you actually get out of the socratic approach. 

Without accepting the idea that there is a significant or appreciable difference between the intelligence of students at GULC and Columbia/NYU, which I find suspect, that is utter bull. If a professor has any skill at the Socratic Method/teaching in general, you will get out of class what s/he wants you to get out of class. In almost all circumstances, students aren't going to actually bring incredibly insightful realizations to the discussion that the professor didn't have in mind. And if the professor isn't skilled...the class will drag no matter how bright the students are.

The quality of the students is more important, perhaps, in seminars/discussion based classes, but that depends on the suspect assertion that there's a difference significant enough to matter.
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: nealric on July 30, 2009, 06:20:17 PM
Quote

not true, columbia and nyu have smarter students, which pays off in terms of whatever you actually get out of the socratic approach. 

I think you would hard pressed to find much difference in student qualify. Socratic questioning is always a little lame from a pedagogical standpoint- I really wouldn't count on getting that much from it at any school.

That said, I think that given the relatively small grant Columbia is the best choice.
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: Resident CLS Troll on July 31, 2009, 03:42:18 AM
I think you would be hard pressed to find much difference in student qualifty. Socratic questioning is always a little lame from a pedagogical standpoint- I really wouldn't count on getting that much from it at any school.

I'd like to use this post as an example of how GULC students are constantly forgetting to use verbs and confusing their t's and f's.

(Just kidding!  Don't ban me!  :P )

For the record, I think that GULC with full ride might be a better call than CLS or NYU sticker.  But not with 10k.
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: thorc954 on July 31, 2009, 06:45:46 AM
I don't go to any of the three law schools (went to a T20 school but have friends at all of them).  I still think there is a difference in the quality of the students.  I know not all upper level classes use the socratic method (although the vast majority do), but I still think that the education is better.  And, even if not, the employment opportunities are significantly better at Columbia than G-town. 
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: nealric on August 01, 2009, 12:22:17 PM
Quote

I'd like to use this post as an example of how GULC students are constantly forgetting to use verbs and confusing their t's and f's.

Who verbs?
Title: Re: GULC w/ 10k grant or NYU/Columbia w/o grant?
Post by: xxspykex on August 05, 2009, 11:49:26 PM
I am going to presume you are transferring since this is in the transferring thread. Go to Columbia hand down. An additional $20K is very small and the job prospects are a shitton better. In the current economy your odds at getting anything at GULC are close to none as a transfer (I don't even think top 25% at GULC is even going to be safe this year in OCI). Columbia/NYU, on the other hand, at least give you some shot. They are getting hit hard still (unlike HYS) but I would predict Columbia/NYU won't be outright screwed like the rest of the t10.