Law School Discussion

Law Students => Transferring => Topic started by: scoop333 on July 20, 2009, 01:27:07 PM

Title: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on July 20, 2009, 01:27:07 PM
Greetings, about a year ago a group of transfer students and I went through the process many are discussing on this board now. We went through all the issues, problems, frustrations, and flat-out unknowns.

As a result of our search, we decided that our frustrations were not the way this process should be.  There’s plenty of help for students who want to enter law schools as 1Ls.  There’s not much except for this Board, and a few others for students who are thinking about transferring.

Over the past school year, my roommate and I have been diligently researching schools, interviewing Admissions Deans, and obtaining first-hand personal accounts of others who tackled the transfer process in our attempt to provide a guidebook on what we felt is the best way to attack the law school transfer process.  Without the knowledge and insight provided by this Board, we strongly believe that we would not have been as fortunate in our own transfer experience.  The posts on this very board helped to shape the way we chose to structure this guidebook. 

The Art of the Law School Transfer: A Guide to Transferring Law Schools is slated for official publication in August of this year. Check it out at http://www.amazon.com/Art-Law-School-Transfer-Transferring/dp/1888960302/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248115964&sr=8-1.  Even though the transfer season for this year is almost over, the book also offers insight on how to handle the transition to your new 2L school and how to deal with OCI as a transfer student.

Looking forward to your comments and feedback and hopefully our research and experiences can help you get into the school of your dreams.

Good Luck!!
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on July 24, 2009, 11:58:32 AM
For those of you going through the transfer transition now, I have provided an excerpt from the book that you may find useful.  It is from the chapter SUCCEEDING AT YOUR NEW SCHOOL AND BEYOND.  I hope it is useful and good luck at your new school.

DON'T LET OCI AFFECT YOUR 2L TRANSITION

Much of what follows is more of the I-wish-someone- had-told- us-this-
before variety. We learned the hard way.
Top grades at your Original 1L School and the leap to a higherranked
school really are an accomplishment. Truth be told, many if
not most students who transfer do so for better job opportunities.
More specifically, for the chance to be courted rather than having
to do the courting: OCI is exactly that, or at least it is as compared
to students not accepted to interview. The reason this is so vital is
that firms will generally only travel to a limited number of law
schools to interview. Nearly all firms will want a top student from
a top law school. So, the higher you go, in terms of law school
ranking, the more that is available in OCI. (And this is not a linear
progression. A top law school might get ten times the number of
firms interviewing than a school even a few dozen places lower in
the rankings, and the firms interviewing will be different as well.)
But you've made it into a higher-ranked law school, and so you
hope to benefit from the greater career opportunities.
Well, here is your chance. OCI! This can make or break your
summer job prospects if you want that "Big Law" summer job.
While some students find summer law jobs on their own, usually
with medium to smaller sized firms, the majority (as in 95+%) of
Big Law summer positions ("clerkships" ) go to law students
through the OCI process.
Here is the warning however: Do not let OCI take over your
first semester at your New 2L School. This is tricky, because OCI is
important. But in addition to your reading, outlining, stress, and
overall anxiety, you should also strive to fit into your new school.
So, our mantra for you: OCI is important, and you should participate
actively, but do not let it distract you from your first semester
at your New 2L School. We transfer students live in a different
world than the rest of 2L law students; we are the exceptions to the
rule. No, we are the exceptions proving the rule. The "rule" is the
2L who didn't have to transfer. For these students—the bulk of all
law students, your 2L grades do not matter as much as your 1L
grades. At times it seems that, for the "regular" 2L, grades are
almost an afterthought: it's the 1L grades that make or break them.
It was 1L grades that made you. As a transfer student, however,
employers want to see how you stack up against the student
body at your New 2L School. So they're a bit more hesitant, and
thus a bit more curious to make sure that we are as good in our
New 2L School as we were in our Old 1L one. For us transfers,
unlike for most 2Ls, our 2L grades are still important.
At one New 2L School, about one-quarter of the transfer students
received summer clerkship offers from OCI. Given that the
average 1L grades from successful transfer students is at or near
the very top of their 1L classes, this is a lower percentage than a
comparable group of 2L students from the 2L school. You should
thus have a mindset that, while you will certainly seize any OCI
opportunities, you might not receive a summer clerkship via OCI.
You'll thus have to work a bit harder—as with the transfer itself.
If you do wind up getting an OCI offer, great. But, if not, you'll
need to focus on grades and on finding your own post-2L job. This
is why it's important to stay on track with your reading and outlin-
and positioning yourself to receive the best 2L grades possible.
You need, in essence, to take exactly the same approach in 2L as you
did in 1L. Many 2Ls are not as serious in their second year, so this
is the chance for you to shine in your new school as well. This will
in turn maximize your chances of getting a summer position if you
have to find a job on your own once OCI passes; your 2L grades are
the first thing employers will look at. In sum, prepare yourself for
OCI, take advantage of OCI, be serious about OCI, but keep your eye
on the ball: your 2L grades.
With that by way of background, let's consider how some of the
details of the OCI process affect the transfer student:

BIDDING
Once admitted to your New 2L School, you should receive information
on how to access information on your new school's website or
intraweb. Usually, there's a special site, or a restricted area of the
main site, for students. Often it has a catchy name, so everyone at the school will know what such-and-so program means. At one school,
the site is called "Symplicity. " Whatever the name or variety of
access at your school, be sure that you've not been inadvertently forgotten: even if the staff is apologetic for any oversight, they likely won't be able to correct any harm if you miss deadlines or simply aren't aware of that school's programs. You should thus ask the
admissions office and career services office as soon as you are accepted: be sure that you know what's what.
Many law schools conduct the OCI process via their web-based
program. Often, the programs work in very much a technical way: a
student "bids" on an employer (either for an interview or for a
chance for an interview), and only a certain number of interviews
are actually granted.

Point #1: This is a competitive process. For most potential employers,
there are more students who want to be interviewed than there are
interview slots. Most firms conduct only a dozen or so interviews—
as compared to hundreds who would be happy for the chance to
work there. So, right from the start this is intensely competitive.
Thus, you should bid assertively, and for many firms. Don't bid on
firms you definitely wouldn't be interested in (which shouldn't be
many), and do consider even opportunities you might not otherwise
have thought of. At the very least, each interview is an opportunity
to practice your interviewing skills.

Point #2: Be sure to include your transfer school in your résumé
when applying for jobs for OCI. Yes, your profile will be a little odd
as compared to the "average" 2L student, so you need to be especially
careful to highlight your positive qualities while being clear about
your 1L and 2L schools. Once you receive grades from your New 2L
School you do not have to include your Original 1L School on your
résumé. For OCI, you do—and will want to. Spotlight your terrific
rank!

Point #3: Don't go into this process defensive about your 1L law
school. After all, you did very, very well there. Keep a positive
mindset, and chances are good that prospective employers will too.

Point #4: Pay attention. Each employer has its own expectations,
both substantive (as to grades, etc.) and stylistic (what they want to
see). You cannot treat each OCI employer as a "one size fits all"
possibility. That's easier, of course, but it's not smart. Assess what
each employer is asking for. Some employers ask for a résumé only,
some ask for a résumé and transcript, some ask for a résumé, cover
letter, and transcript. Some include information on who will be
interviewing. (Of course, if that information is given, it's far better to personalize what you're submitting. It takes just minutes, and it can make the difference, especially with a borderline bid.) Further, tailor each bid to at least some detail specific to that employer. If they have a big labor law practice and you worked in a union, that's worth mentioning. (They might represent management rather than labor, but it will give them something unique to go on; chances are very good they would at least be curious—i.e., more likely inclined to interview you.) If they're on Wall Street and you're worked in a brokerage firm, of course you want to mention that, probably in a cover letter as well as highlighted in your résumé. Don't stretch any fact too far, and be careful not to limit yourself: it's a fine balance, but you want to make yourself stand out (in a good way) to the hiring partners.

Point #5: Think about geography. Where do you want to practice? If
you already know (and are certain of that choice), bid only on the
firms from that locale. Don't take away someone else's interview if
you're flat-out going to waste the interviewer' s (and your own) time.
If you do not have a specific city or area set in stone, bid on all the firms you can. You should cast your net as wide as possible: many
employers prefer students who have grades from the school where
the OCI is being done. After all, that's why they're there. While you
have impressive grades, they are grades from your Original 1L
School. Employers have a tough time comparing you to other
students at your New 2L School because your grades came from a
different law school with a different student body and most likely, a
different grading curve. Being different—even if not perceived as
"bad"—is still a negative. With many students to choose from, they
might shy away from transfers. As mentioned, until you get your
new grades at your New 2L School and prove yourself (again), there
can be a stigma against transfers in the OCI process because of an
assumption of a low LSAT score. Yes, not everyone who attends a
Tier 4 law school has a below-par LSAT score; one may attend for a
part time program or for personal reasons. That's the assumption,
however, so it's best to understand and attempt to deal with it.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: big - fat - box on July 24, 2009, 01:24:29 PM
Once you receive grades from your New 2L School you do not have to include your Original 1L School on your
résumé.


At many schools, including the one I transferred to, that is not true. You don't get to leave the 1L school off until after you graduate. At that point it's a personal decision whether or not to put the 1L school on there.

Also this advice is very generic w/r/t to bidding. It also doesn't discuss the lottery bidding process T14 schools have.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: johnadams on July 24, 2009, 02:08:17 PM
so, like, don't focus on OCI too much or else you might lose track of fitting in/outling/making good grades and oh, yeah, writing a book on transferring?

"admissions consultants" and law students who write books as though they are experts on experiences they are still going through make me crazy


Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on August 03, 2009, 08:28:14 PM
Thank you for raising such concerns.  The excerpt I posted was only meant to act as an aide to those successful transfer students going through the OCI process now.  Regarding whether to leave your 1L school on your resume or not after you receive grades is a personal choice.  I have had the opportunity to speak to numerous career counselors and both have mentioned either option.  It all comes down to personal preference at the end of the day.  Furthermore, the excerpt I provided does give general information regarding OCI; however, the chapter focusing on OCI goes into much more detail as the chapter goes on.

The reason my co-author and I decided to write this book is to help others that are attempting to do what we did, that is successfully transfer.  We do not believe that we are "experts" on the subject; however, we do feel we can offer advice on what to be on the lookout for.  Thank you for addressing your comments and concerns.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: Vaio on September 02, 2009, 09:21:14 AM
Not bad but I think I prefer Arrow's Comprehensive and FREE guide that was posted on TLS.



Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on September 10, 2009, 01:05:37 PM
Arrow's post is a very good one, but I believe the book gives the reader and beginning to end approach on the rigors of transferring law school.  From how to approach transferring to handling OCI and the transition to your new school.  Additionally, it provides many suppplemental materials (sample LOR's, Transfer Statements, Grade Appeals, Resumes, etc.) that could be invaluable to one getting into their dream school.  I commend Arrow's post and believe he brings a number of good points to the table.

Good luck this year 1L's!!
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: Desdow on December 26, 2009, 08:22:58 PM
I got a copy of this book from the authors when it came out, but didn't have a chance to do it justice until my first semester of law school was done. I just wanted to chime in and say I found it absolutely fantastic - it had great stats, a detailed overview of the transfer process, and really went into the nuances and details that I wouldn't have had any idea about otherwise. I'm not planning to transfer, but I still found it useful to learn bout the process - and I'm sure that for anybody who is considering transferring, this book would be indispensable.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on February 19, 2010, 08:53:27 AM
Thank you for the kind words!!
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: coto29 on February 19, 2010, 05:26:06 PM
I bought the book.  Its useful.  One main problem I'm having is finding reliable information.  Everyone has an agenda; the original school and the attempted transfer school.  The unbiased information in the book is a great resource.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on February 23, 2010, 11:17:16 AM
Thanks...appreciate the support!!
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: coto29 on February 24, 2010, 02:01:34 PM
Quick question.  Did you find any info on Memphis in your research last year?  Its tier 3 so you may not have looked into it, the ABA transfer stats are low:  2 in 1 out.  I'm hoping that such low "in" numbers are because the school didn't have many apps.  Otherwise, they could be hostile to transfers.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on February 25, 2010, 09:28:43 AM
Coto,

Unfortunately, when Andrew and I did the research for the numbers chart in the book, we focused in on the top 100 schools.  We contacted each school and informed them about our project and those who participated we included their numbers in the book.  Without doing any research on Memphis, I would suspect they do not receive a lot of transfer applications because they are a T3 school and a majority of transfer students try to jump into the T2 and T1 schools.  Additionally, Memphis might be a strong regional school, thus a low number of students are trying to leave if they do well because they want to stay in the area.  Hope this helps.  Good luck this semester!!
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: stinger35 on March 01, 2010, 03:44:32 PM
Just found out about and ordered the book today. (Also applied to GULC EA today as well...wish I had the book before hand). Was wondering if in your research you found any information at all about PT students. I am a part time student at a T2 (80's) hoping to move up into the t14. I am top 5% and likely number one in my class and am working in the legal field as well as doing pro bono. I am applying to Chicago because I love the city but more realistically would love to end up at NU, UMich, UVA, Duke, or GULC, Cornell, UCLA, USC, probably in that order.

Any information you guys found out would be great, as I am waiting for the book. I am really just getting worried/paranoid that the whole PT thing will keep me out of the t14.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on March 02, 2010, 12:04:18 PM
Congrats on doing so well your first semester!!  As you mentioned, finishing at the top of your class as a PT student is not the same as finishing at the top if you are a full time student; however, it is still quite an accomplishment.  I do not believe you will be counted out when trying to apply to the upper echeclon schools.  Since you have your grades solidified, I would concentrate your efforts on obtaining outstanding LOR's and really developing your Transfer Statement to make you stand out from the rest.  You mentioned you applied to GULC EA, I am pretty sure they allow students the opportunity to jump to the full time program after they have proven themselves in the part time program.  Good luck this semster, and I hope our book will provide you with help.

Seth
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: CanadianWolf on March 24, 2010, 05:45:15 PM
The advice shared in the excerpt appears to be common-sense generic suggestions that are presented in an unedited fashion.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: CanadianWolf on March 24, 2010, 05:55:16 PM
@stinger35: If you are currently attending a Chicago area law school such as Loyola or DePaul, then one of your professors may be able to assist with a strong recommendation to a known admissions officer at one of your target schools.
As a part-time transfer from a non-AALS law school to an AALS law school, you may have to consider starting over as a first year law student without advanced standing. This, of course, is not an issue at schools such as Georgetown which are reviewing their own students for transfer from part to full-time.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on March 28, 2010, 10:37:26 AM
Thank you for your comments.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: coto29 on March 28, 2010, 05:22:03 PM
The advice shared in the excerpt appears to be common-sense generic suggestions that are presented in an unedited fashion.

Ha.  The desire and effort to be honest.  Refreshing.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: Thane Messinger on April 01, 2010, 09:37:55 PM
The advice shared in the excerpt appears to be common-sense generic suggestions that are presented in an unedited fashion.


I try to stay out of these, but . . .

Interestingly, it is the large questions we often get wrong, based on these generic, general factors.  We don't often look back and say "Gee, I wish that teacher in my sixth-period English class had taught me the seventh rule of participles."

As to common sense, that's neither terribly common nor filled with many cents.  One should seek guidance not from similarly situated peers, but rather from those who might just have been there, done that . . . and in so being and doing have something to share.

I remember taking a survey in law school.  I was a 1L, and the survey was the general are-we-doing-a-good-job survey.  I remembered thinking (as a 1L) that my answers were really without any basis.  As a 2L and 3L, I remembered getting angry that my 1L ballot was, in essence, a dilution of more valuable 2L and 3L votes.  There are many good and valuable voices in law school (as anywhere); but be careful not to put too much faith in what everyone seems to think is right.  In law school, that is an almost-certain route to sub-par performance.

No book will offer a magical "A" without effort, just as no book will be The Answer.  But that hardly means we should be happy in our ignorance.  If one picks up just a handful of tips from any resource--here or in life--that's a good bargain.  As it happens I read a manuscript of Art of the Law School Transfer.  It's not War & Peace, but then again, that's hardly what one would expect .  Several deans of admissions added their two cents' worth, and if there's anything that's not "generic," that would surely be it.  But, of course, that's just my two cents' worth.

Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on April 17, 2010, 07:33:19 AM
Greetings law school transfer applicants.  As the Spring semester winds down and finals are on the horizon, anxiety is on the rise.  I want to wish all potential transfer students good luck on your exams.  Please feel free to ask questions regarding transferring on this thread, and I will try my best to answer your questions to the best of my ability.  I will be in studying for the bar exam this summer so please allow me some time to respond back to your questions and inquiries.  Stay motivated and focused!!


Best of Luck,

Seth
Co-Author, The Art of the Law School Transfer
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: xxspykex on April 17, 2010, 07:09:32 PM
This book is so retarded. You can get the same information in a much more concise fashion by reading Arrow's post on TLS. No idea why anyone in his/her right mind would buy this book.

Not to mention- didn't this guy transfer TO UF (or something well outside the t14)? He doesn't sound like much of an expert on the "art of transferring" at all considering his transfer school is a toilet.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 17, 2010, 08:22:06 PM
HEY! THIS MAN AND HIS BOOK CHANGED MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!(without his adive I never would have transfered from BS into the best and largest lawschool in the county!  :D )


This book is so retarded. You can get the same information in a much more concise fashion by reading Arrow's post on TLS. No idea why anyone in his/her right mind would buy this book.

Not to mention- didn't this guy transfer TO UF (or something well outside the t14)? He doesn't sound like much of an expert on the "art of transferring" at all considering his transfer school is a toilet.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on April 18, 2010, 09:18:53 AM
Thank you for the support.  I am glad our experiences and advice were able to help you get into the school you wanted.  It's great to hear success stories!!  Regardless of what school you transfer to, transferring is still a grueling process with so many unknowns.  Our goal was to make these unknowns known by appealing to all different types of transfer students.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: coto29 on April 18, 2010, 09:52:04 AM
Isn't Cooley the largest law school in the country?

HEY! THIS MAN AND HIS BOOK CHANGED MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!(without his adive I never would have transfered from BS into the best and largest lawschool in the county!  :D )


This book is so retarded. You can get the same information in a much more concise fashion by reading Arrow's post on TLS. No idea why anyone in his/her right mind would buy this book.

Not to mention- didn't this guy transfer TO UF (or something well outside the t14)? He doesn't sound like much of an expert on the "art of transferring" at all considering his transfer school is a to
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 18, 2010, 10:53:23 AM
thats what she sai..... :o

Isn't Cooley the largest law school in the country?

HEY! THIS MAN AND HIS BOOK CHANGED MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!(without his adive I never would have transfered from BS into the best and largest lawschool in the county!  :D )


This book is so retarded. You can get the same information in a much more concise fashion by reading Arrow's post on TLS. No idea why anyone in his/her right mind would buy this book.

Not to mention- didn't this guy transfer TO UF (or something well outside the t14)? He doesn't sound like much of an expert on the "art of transferring" at all considering his transfer school is a to
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: coto29 on April 18, 2010, 11:51:13 AM
You're a weird guy, man.  "Smiley face guy". Are you drunk when you are on LSD?

Regardless, the book profiled on this board is useful on a basic level.  Some of the info covered is common sense, but much of the info provided is hidden and relevant as well.  I bought it and read it, it was worth it.  The tables and samples are especially useful.

It will not change your life, however, ultimately you effort and choices are what will allow you to transfer.  Use all the resources you can find, including this book.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 18, 2010, 02:59:07 PM
did it get your out of Apalachia?

You're a weird guy, man.  "Smiley face guy". Are you drunk when you are on LSD?

Regardless, the book profiled on this board is useful on a basic level.  Some of the info covered is common sense, but much of the info provided is hidden and relevant as well.  I bought it and read it, it was worth it.  The tables and samples are especially useful.

It will not change your life, however, ultimately you effort and choices are what will allow you to transfer.  Use all the resources you can find, including this book.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: coto29 on April 18, 2010, 03:44:34 PM
I'll tell ya in about 6 weeks.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: cooleylawstudent on April 18, 2010, 04:03:55 PM
fair enough. Should I plan to play "swords" with you on bathroom break or you going to one to the peewee sized lawschools?

I'll tell ya in about 6 weeks.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: stinger35 on May 27, 2010, 12:57:23 PM
I am having so much trouble with my transfer personal statement that I am thinking about not even applying, despite a 3.94. I honestly have been writing different versions of one since February and just can't seem to get it right. No clue what to do.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: Thane Messinger on May 27, 2010, 03:41:50 PM
I am having so much trouble with my transfer personal statement that I am thinking about not even applying, despite a 3.94. I honestly have been writing different versions of one since February and just can't seem to get it right. No clue what to do.

Stinger -

Don't dispair, and don't not apply.  This is important, and it can make a BIG difference, in many ways. 

Two possibilities.  First, think of your qualities: why are you transferring, why did you do well, why are you looking to better your educational opportunities, and so on.  This is not for the statement.  This is for you.  Some aspects will start to click, and those will draw in even better connections for your statement.

Second, I'll contact the authors of Art of the Law School Transfer.  Perhaps they can offer additional pointers.

Thane.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 27, 2010, 06:24:34 PM
Remember, the worst they can say is no, if you dont do it at all you get the same responce. Might as well try.

A wise man once said "If you suddenly discover yourself plumeting off a cliff, you might as well attempt to fly, afterall what do you have to lose?"
 ;)
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on May 27, 2010, 06:32:12 PM
Regarding your Transfer Statement... Keep it short and simple.  Follow some of the same parameters that you did with your Personal Statement in your 1L app.  Limit it to two pages, try and separate yourself from the rest of the class while interweaving why you want to attend that specific school.  The Transfer Statement is important because it could put you over the edge and into the school you always wanted to go to.  Good Luck!!
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: Joe B on July 18, 2010, 10:10:05 AM
This book is a MUST READ for any student attempting to transfer. The book is basically a complete roadmap for transferring (provides advice before you even start law school…up until when you are accepted at your new law school). This book is extremely reliable. As you will see, there are frequent interviews with deans from various schools included in the book. Don’t waste your precious time by researching unreliable blogs and forums. This book cuts right to the chase and provides everything you need. This year I transferred from a Tier 4 School to a Tier 1 Law School. I can honestly say that this book was a major contributing factor to my acceptance! Thank you Seth and Andrew! Good luck guys!!
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on August 07, 2010, 04:10:51 AM
Thank you for the support Joe.  When Andrew and I set out to write the book, providing a roadmap from beginning to end was exactly what we wanted to do.  We are glad the book was so useful to you.  We look forward to hearing more about other successful transfer stories, and always welcome transfer questions.  Good luck to the 2010 transfer class!!

Seth
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: JD_LawSchool on September 06, 2010, 04:38:33 PM
Thanks Joe.  Seth and I (and Thane) really appreciate the support.  Believe it or not, we wanted this book to be a practical guide that was useful - not just babble law school theory hoping it would sell.  This is by no means a substantial money making book for us.  We really felt there was a need to help students transfer - and change their law careers for life.  Transferring is a difficult process, and certain unknown intricacies can ruin an application.  You need to target an application for a target school for specific reasons - generics won't fly in the transfer game.  If you, or anyone on this board have questions, please feel free to PM us directly.  Going from T4 to T1 can literally change your life, and future.  Good luck to the transfer class!  Please provide us with feedback whenever you can - whether its positive or constructive criticism.  We are out of law school now, we are here to help you to the best of our abilities. 
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: JD_LawSchool on April 25, 2011, 01:21:35 PM
How's the transfer process going for all?  Any questions?  Anyone interested in a free copy of our book?  I have two sitting around.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: kjw5029 on April 25, 2011, 08:32:12 PM
I bought your book last year (rather my dad got it for me) and a lot of hit was helpful.  I found the tables with school data to be the most helpful.  Much easier than searching individual school's websites or lsac. 
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: JD_LawSchool on April 27, 2011, 10:58:48 AM
I bought your book last year (rather my dad got it for me) and a lot of hit was helpful.  I found the tables with school data to be the most helpful.  Much easier than searching individual school's websites or lsac.

Thank you KJ.  That took the most time.  Constantly contacting schools for their data.  I am glad the book was helpful.

Anyone else in the transfer market these days?  I know grades and rank come out in a month or so.  Time to start prepping those applications so they are specific and on point.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: FalconJimmy on April 27, 2011, 11:19:40 AM
Out of curiosity, do you update this book every year? 

What is the best way to get it?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: JD_LawSchool on April 27, 2011, 11:36:54 AM
Hey Jimmy, we are in the midst of making a website where we can update the numbers in the charts (i.e., transfer numbers for schools).  That information may change year to year.  For example, I went to the University of Florida which was not traditionally considered a "transfer friendly school," however, now they are.  So trends like that are important to look at.  As for the substantive writing of the book, we do have ideas for a second edition, but that information in particular does not change year to year as much.

If you private message me, I'll send you a copy of the book.  It is also available on Amazon.com for around $12 right now.

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: kjw5029 on April 27, 2011, 04:11:58 PM
Updated tables would be incredibly helpful for potential transfers.  I got rejected from a school that was low enough in the rankings that I figured I would be a shoe-in (because my grades were very good).  I was pretty confused, but after looking at your book, I saw that they only took 1 transfer a year.  It was worth purchasing the book for that sole reason (the peace of mind). 
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: JD_LawSchool on April 28, 2011, 03:11:38 PM
Updated tables would be incredibly helpful for potential transfers.  I got rejected from a school that was low enough in the rankings that I figured I would be a shoe-in (because my grades were very good).  I was pretty confused, but after looking at your book, I saw that they only took 1 transfer a year.  It was worth purchasing the book for that sole reason (the peace of mind).

Yeah, KJ.  Some schools are very transfer friendly while some are not.  Some schools love transfers (such as Georgetown) while others take only one or 2, sometimes.  Our book is not the panacea of transferring by any means, but transferring law schools is indeed a tricky game because its not like the normal admission process where all schools are trying to fill their first year class quotas.  Many many different factors come to play when a school is looking to replenish its 2L class.  Its also important to look at attrition rates with the schools.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: FalconJimmy on April 28, 2011, 03:17:13 PM
Out of curiosity, since this is a subject you've studied in depth, do schools do this to fill the seats that were vacated because of attrition?

Or do different schools just have different philosophies.

For instance, school X may lose 10% of their 1L class and they go out and get an equal number of transfers so their 2L class will be the same size as their 1L.

Or, maybe school Y loses 10% of their 1L class, but recruits MORE than that number?  Does that ever happen?  The school does this to have a larger 2L class?

Or the other way around, schools just don't care who they lose out of 1L, and they just go with whoever comes back?

Also, it seems to me that most transfers into t14 or first tier schools probably come from the 3rd and 4urth tier.  Is that true?  The reason I suspect this is that if you're doing really well at your school and it's a 2nd tier school, you will probably have awesome job opportunities and not feel the need to transfer. 
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: JD_LawSchool on April 28, 2011, 03:34:40 PM
Out of curiosity, since this is a subject you've studied in depth, do schools do this to fill the seats that were vacated because of attrition?

Or do different schools just have different philosophies.

For instance, school X may lose 10% of their 1L class and they go out and get an equal number of transfers so their 2L class will be the same size as their 1L.

Or, maybe school Y loses 10% of their 1L class, but recruits MORE than that number?  Does that ever happen?  The school does this to have a larger 2L class?

Or the other way around, schools just don't care who they lose out of 1L, and they just go with whoever comes back?

Also, it seems to me that most transfers into t14 or first tier schools probably come from the 3rd and 4urth tier.  Is that true?  The reason I suspect this is that if you're doing really well at your school and it's a 2nd tier school, you will probably have awesome job opportunities and not feel the need to transfer.

A lot of what you said is true.  Different philosophies for different schools.  Some schools ranked in the 30's to 50's just want to get a handful of transfers to get their 1L class back to its original status quo.  Some schools, like Georgetown or FSU, however, don't care how many leave per se, and just want to add transfers to beef up their class and revenue (and help their US News ranking).  It really all depends on the school, so that's why we made that chart in our book.  Many transfers into T1's do come from lower ranked schools of students who did very well (top 5%).  However, if you are attending a school in the geographic location you want to live and practice in, and you are in the top 10%, and your school is ranked 50-80 (T2) it may not make sense to leave.  You will most likely receive a scholarship and good job placement in that regional area (transfer students rarely, if ever, receive scholarships).  But remember, outside the T14, schools are regional, not national when it comes to job recruiting and placement.
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: mrosmith on May 25, 2011, 04:18:24 PM
Got a 3.65 First Semester 16/126 (T3/T4, they dropped).
3.8 right now with 2 grades to go.

Applying to:

Michigan
Duke
Chicago
Wake
UNC
Wisco
Minn
Illinois
GULC
William and Mary
Kent
FSU
Loyola Chi
Thinking about adding American/George Mason/ or George Washington

What are my chances of breaking into the T1?
Title: Re: Law School Transfer Book- The Art of the Law School Transfer
Post by: scoop333 on July 07, 2011, 08:23:44 PM
If your GPA puts you in the top 10%, you will have a good chance of getting into T1 schools with an outside shot at the T14 schools.  Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.  Good luck!