Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: TruOne on May 11, 2009, 07:52:23 PM

Title: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on May 11, 2009, 07:52:23 PM
1. I'm NEVER going to surf the internet during class.

2. I'm going to brief EVERY case for class.

3. I had to read a lot in my undergrad major, so I'm sure I can handle a little more in Law School.

4. I'm sure I'll go to every class in LAW SCHOOL.

5. I'm going to hand-write all my notes because I did it undergrad and I can REMEMBER things better.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on May 12, 2009, 04:38:57 PM
6. I got As throughout my education...law school should be no different.

7. The LENGTHIER my briefs / outline the better.

8. I'll have time to be an" officer" in all 7 campus organizations that interest me + law review

9.(repeat) I will brief every case
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: "That One" on May 13, 2009, 08:07:02 PM
1. I will not fall asleep in class

2. I will read every supplement I have

3. I will write my own outlines
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on May 15, 2009, 11:43:23 AM
1. I'm NEVER going to surf the internet during class.

2. I'm going to brief EVERY case for class.

3. I had to read a lot in my undergrad major, so I'm sure I can handle a little more in Law School.

4. I'm sure I'll go to every class in LAW SCHOOL.

5. I'm going to hand-write all my notes because I did it undergrad and I can REMEMBER things better.
6. I got As throughout my education...law school should be no different.

7. The LENGTHIER my briefs / outline the better.

8. I'll have time to be an" officer" in all 7 campus organizations that interest me + law review

9.(repeat) I will brief every case

1. I will not fall asleep in class

2. I will read every supplement I have

3. I will write my own outlines


Ha.  I never said any of that stuff! :D
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 04, 2009, 11:47:55 AM
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Julie Fern on June 04, 2009, 11:57:53 AM
oh, blueidiot, you so right.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 04, 2009, 07:40:20 PM
  • I will study the summer before law school and be ahead of my class

The only thing worst than people who actually think this are the people who ADVOCATE this kinda crap!
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 04, 2009, 07:43:24 PM
Biggest waste of a summer you could ever engage in.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 04, 2009, 08:59:00 PM
Man, speaking of folks that advocate this stuff, my publisher wants me to in my book. (oh,BTW, ya'll know how me and A joke about my writing a book ; well I actually wrote one). He wants me to advocate that BS! He says our way of looking at summer prep makes us sound like a bunch of hippies and that there is no diff in one's abilities between the summer b4 law school and a few weeks in. I feel like I'd be selling out if I cave.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: A. on June 05, 2009, 06:25:56 AM
(oh,BTW, ya'll know how me and A joke about my writing a book ; well I actually wrote one).

 :D can't wait to pick up a copy!


Quote
I feel like I'd be selling out if I cave.

Yeah don't do it.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 05, 2009, 08:08:33 AM
Man, speaking of folks that advocate this stuff, my publisher wants me to in my book. (oh,BTW, ya'll know how me and A joke about my writing a book ; well I actually wrote one). He wants me to advocate that BS! He says our way of looking at summer prep makes us sound like a bunch of hippies and that there is no diff in one's abilities between the summer b4 law school and a few weeks in. I feel like I'd be selling out if I cave.


Who are these people?  Non-law school grads I take it.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 07, 2009, 01:37:10 PM
@A: I was told I must present both sides of the debate at least if I don't cave entirely.

LOL. Will be sure to let u know when it drops and autograph it! It's under a pen name though.

@Sands: lol. Apparently he went to Harvard.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 08, 2009, 11:08:06 AM
Man, speaking of folks that advocate this stuff, my publisher wants me to in my book. (oh,BTW, ya'll know how me and A joke about my writing a book ; well I actually wrote one). He wants me to advocate that BS! He says our way of looking at summer prep makes us sound like a bunch of hippies and that there is no diff in one's abilities between the summer b4 law school and a few weeks in. I feel like I'd be selling out if I cave.

He can't be serious.

Have your average "Pre Law" College Grad. (A joke within itself) ready Pennoyer vs. Neff a month b4 law school and then have someone read it a month after law school.

You'll get completely different responses.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 09, 2009, 12:13:06 PM

He can't be serious.

Have your average "Pre Law" College Grad. (A joke within itself) ready Pennoyer vs. Neff a month b4 law school and then have someone read it a month after law school.

You'll get completely different responses.


Word.  And unfortunately he is quite serious...hence the hold up in my getting published.   >:( >:(

But yeah in preparing the book, I encountered (trust me encountered is the right word to descibe the experience) my briefs that I did during Orientation a few days before law school started.  Then I also came across my briefs a few weeks in.  Both were hilariously horrible, now, looking back on it.  But the second batch was a vast improvement. 
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 09, 2009, 01:45:33 PM

He can't be serious.

Have your average "Pre Law" College Grad. (A joke within itself) ready Pennoyer vs. Neff a month b4 law school and then have someone read it a month after law school.

You'll get completely different responses.


Word.  And unfortunately he is quite serious...hence the hold up in my getting published.   >:( >:(

But yeah in preparing the book, I encountered (trust me encountered is the right word to descibe the experience) my briefs that I did during Orientation a few days before law school started.  Then I also came across my briefs a few weeks in.  Both were hilariously horrible, now, looking back on it.  But the second batch was a vast improvement. 

I guess his method will make the book available to a "wider" audience since they'll be able to say that it gives study tips for "Pre-Law students" (God I  hate that term. You either ARE a Law student or your AREN'T, there ain't no inbetween) to use before they enter law school so they can have a "leg-up" on their classmates.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 09, 2009, 07:37:58 PM
Yeah that's a good point.  I just can't see myself selling out like that.

LOL, yeah I remember becoming a "pre-law" student for the sole purpose of getting into law school thinking it would help.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 09, 2009, 08:57:51 PM
Yeah that's a good point.  I just can't see myself selling out like that.

LOL, yeah I remember becoming a "pre-law" student for the sole purpose of getting into law school thinking it would help.

I remember when I was in High School a College Admissions officer came to speak to us about a particular school. Somebody asked about why the brochure didn't mention anything bout a "Pre-law" major:

Student: Does your school have a Pre-law major?
Add: Well, there technically is no such thing as Pre-law
Student: Yes there is, University of State has a Pre-law Major.
Add: No, seriously, there is no such thing as Pre-law. You can major in whatever you want.
Student: But what if we want to prepare for law school?
Add: I'm trying to tell you that you can major in whatever you want and go to law school



This little debate went on for about 5 min until the officer finally moved on to a new subject.

I think schools should stop creating those "Minors" or "Degree tracks" because it does nothing but help turn otherwise regular undergrads into pretentious undergrads.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 15, 2009, 03:01:29 PM
LOL that student sounds like a future gunner. 

But yeah I wish they would stop with the "pre law" garbage-  I would've majored in something different had I known.

So I'm still sitting here with my book trying to do the revision he wants me to do and I've been staring at a blank page for a few hours.  I wrote some stuff but lol it sounds more like anti-summer prep than it is for it.  So I deleted it.   
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Obama2 on June 15, 2009, 05:53:20 PM
@Truone, on Pennoyer v. Neff, you are right.

I am currently in this CLEO summer pre law program that preps you for law school. It is basically 3 classes held everyday of the week for the summer which are taught like a regular law school class, with crazy ass readings and all that. Anyways, we just had to read Pennoyer v. Neff about a week ago, and the professor made a point of trying to use "socratic method to the max in order to prepare us for whats ahead" and guess who the lucky student was? yours truly lol. I mean I did alright but I quickly realized no matter how much stuff or heads up you guys give us on here, it is a different ball game when you actually going through it. Its like I read the case, briefed it and thought I got the main point. Then, I get to class and its like I missed something or focused on the issue within the issue instead of the main issue or something crazy lol, you never win with these people lol. But nobody told me how stimulating law school is, yes I hate havin to sleep only 5 to 6 hours most of the night, but I love it the readings, classes, and discussions with my classmates..

I know this is like kiddie stuff to you guys by now, but what do you think? Too early to be talking about I love it?l
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 15, 2009, 07:02:24 PM
@Truone, on Pennoyer v. Neff, you are right.

I am currently in this CLEO summer pre law program that preps you for law school. It is basically 3 classes held everyday of the week for the summer which are taught like a regular law school class, with crazy ass readings and all that. Anyways, we just had to read Pennoyer v. Neff about a week ago, and the professor made a point of trying to use "socratic method to the max in order to prepare us for whats ahead" and guess who the lucky student was? yours truly lol. I mean I did alright but I quickly realized no matter how much stuff or heads up you guys give us on here, it is a different ball game when you actually going through it. Its like I read the case, briefed it and thought I got the main point. Then, I get to class and its like I missed something or focused on the issue within the issue instead of the main issue or something crazy lol, you never win with these people lol. But nobody told me how stimulating law school is, yes I hate havin to sleep only 5 to 6 hours most of the night, but I love it the readings, classes, and discussions with my classmates..

I know this is like kiddie stuff to you guys by now, but what do you think? Too early to be talking about I love it?l

Sounds like you have the makings of a good law student.

I loved the stimulating academic environment that law school provides.  I think our education is like no other graduate or professional school. You're forced to think about things on several different levels, going back and forth between facts, law, and policy.

It's never to early to be passionate about the law.  Keep that going throughout your 3 years and you will do well.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 16, 2009, 07:04:40 PM
@Truone, on Pennoyer v. Neff, you are right.

I am currently in this CLEO summer pre law program that preps you for law school. It is basically 3 classes held everyday of the week for the summer which are taught like a regular law school class, with crazy ass readings and all that. Anyways, we just had to read Pennoyer v. Neff about a week ago, and the professor made a point of trying to use "socratic method to the max in order to prepare us for whats ahead" and guess who the lucky student was? yours truly lol. I mean I did alright but I quickly realized no matter how much stuff or heads up you guys give us on here, it is a different ball game when you actually going through it. Its like I read the case, briefed it and thought I got the main point. Then, I get to class and its like I missed something or focused on the issue within the issue instead of the main issue or something crazy lol, you never win with these people lol. But nobody told me how stimulating law school is, yes I hate havin to sleep only 5 to 6 hours most of the night, but I love it the readings, classes, and discussions with my classmates..

I know this is like kiddie stuff to you guys by now, but what do you think? Too early to be talking about I love it?l

Sounds like you have the makings of a good law student.

I loved the stimulating academic environment that law school provides.  I think our education is like no other graduate or professional school. You're forced to think about things on several different levels, going back and forth between facts, law, and policy.

It's never to early to be passionate about the law.  Keep that going throughout your 3 years and you will do well.



WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
Future Law Professors, dead ahead!
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 17, 2009, 10:52:10 AM
@Truone, on Pennoyer v. Neff, you are right.

I am currently in this CLEO summer pre law program that preps you for law school. It is basically 3 classes held everyday of the week for the summer which are taught like a regular law school class, with crazy ass readings and all that. Anyways, we just had to read Pennoyer v. Neff about a week ago, and the professor made a point of trying to use "socratic method to the max in order to prepare us for whats ahead" and guess who the lucky student was? yours truly lol. I mean I did alright but I quickly realized no matter how much stuff or heads up you guys give us on here, it is a different ball game when you actually going through it. Its like I read the case, briefed it and thought I got the main point. Then, I get to class and its like I missed something or focused on the issue within the issue instead of the main issue or something crazy lol, you never win with these people lol. But nobody told me how stimulating law school is, yes I hate havin to sleep only 5 to 6 hours most of the night, but I love it the readings, classes, and discussions with my classmates..

I know this is like kiddie stuff to you guys by now, but what do you think? Too early to be talking about I love it?l

Sounds like you have the makings of a good law student.

I loved the stimulating academic environment that law school provides.  I think our education is like no other graduate or professional school. You're forced to think about things on several different levels, going back and forth between facts, law, and policy.

It's never to early to be passionate about the law.  Keep that going throughout your 3 years and you will do well.



WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
Future Law Professors, dead ahead!


Guilty.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 17, 2009, 11:52:01 PM
But nobody told me how stimulating law school is, yes I hate havin to sleep only 5 to 6 hours most of the night, but I love it the readings, classes, and discussions with my classmates..

I know this is like kiddie stuff to you guys by now, but what do you think? Too early to be talking about I love it?

I don't think that getting excited early on is a problem-  in fact, I think it's your biggest strength in  law school and it's something I mention in my book pretty extensively.  If you surveyed (almost) everyone that did well in law school...any law school, you'd find that some have purchased supplements, some have not, some studied in groups, some have not, some used LEEWS, some have not, so on and so forth  But the one thing that's common to most if not all of them is an "excitement" about the law.  I truly think that it's that excitement that makes you go the extra mile to do the things that separate you from the rest.

To that end, the excitement is relatively easy to lose.  Law school has a way of making a person feel inferior.  It's not as easy to be #1 as it was in undergrad, professors "hide the ball", etc.  To echo Sands' sentiments, as long as you keep that excitement you should be ahead of the game. So do whatever you need to do to hold onto the excitement that you have now.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Obama2 on June 18, 2009, 11:30:31 PM
haha @ the law professor comment. At this state, I highly doubt my ability to teach any thing to anyone lol

Sands, I hope you do become a law professor because I usually read your comments (along with TrueOne, Cui bono) and you guys seem like you know what you talking about lol. but please dont torture the 1Ls like your predecessors lol

Bueno, that’s great you already wrote a book. That’s actually one of my major Goals and im looking forward to sharpening my skills in law school. By judging the legal memo I wrote today, lord knows I need it lol. I am concerned about losing that excitement like you mentioned. Its funny you used the "hide the ball" reference because I was speaking to one of the professors today and he said that exact phrase like 100 times lol.. what is your book about? if you dont mind me asking?

P.s My bad for temporarily hijacking this thread!!
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 19, 2009, 02:46:34 PM
LOL it's fun to "torture" the 1Ls. 

Thanks.  My book is about law school- and all that encompasses.  Sort of a "One L" meets "Planet Law School" meets "Getting to Maybe".  Just another law school prep book except there are quite a few juicy parts that are unique as compared to what's out there.  It's a book full of stuff I wish I would have known prior to going in. I'm thinking of writing a second book because the first has some cliffhangers.  Some stuff I say is pretty out there so the book is written under a pen name- but there are some definite clues as to my real identity.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Obama2 on June 19, 2009, 04:23:56 PM
LOL it's fun to "torture" the 1Ls. 

Thanks.  My book is about law school- and all that encompasses.  Sort of a "One L" meets "Planet Law School" meets "Getting to Maybe".  Just another law school prep book except there are quite a few juicy parts that are unique as compared to what's out there.  It's a book full of stuff I wish I would have known prior to going in. I'm thinking of writing a second book because the first has some cliffhangers.  Some stuff I say is pretty out there so the book is written under a pen name- but there are some definite clues as to my real identity.

Oh sounds like very interesting. I am jealous, but glad for you lol. I skimmed over Plant Law School II, it seemed like some parts were too early to read as an OL. I read some parts of getting to maybe, and book is more helpful I think. Over here, they are making us read this book called "Expert Learning" and I think that was the best out of all of them. If you ever want to share your book title let us know and Ima try to check it out, but im sure you probably want to stay anonymous since you have a lot of posts in here and got knows what outlandish said somewhere like 1000 post ago lol
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Matthies on June 19, 2009, 05:16:38 PM
Stupid things I said as a 1L:
You mean if I got to room 165 at noon I’ll get free pizza and all I got to do is listen about some group/club/journal/origination/cause/problem? How bad can that be? I’m in!”

I’ve seriously sat through time share sales pitches that were more interesting than most of the crap I went to to get free food. I mean I went to the Black Law Students Association, the Latino Law Association, the Women’s Law Association, the Right to Life law Association, the Pro Choice law association, the law republicans, the law democrats, gay law students for equal right, evangelical law students for stoning people to death who are different, animal law association, BBQ Law group, Native Amercian law students. I had no shame but I did not pay for lunch for near on two years. My pasty white, fat balding male conservative ass would sit in the back of the room and say with a mouthful of free food “speak it brother!” “speak it sister!” “down with men” “free the amainls!” “This is some good BBQ” “You said it homie!” “abort that baby” “save that baby!”. I freely and openly support your [insert cause/compliant/mission here] if you feed me.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: non parata est on June 20, 2009, 01:07:27 PM
Stupid things I said as a 1L:
You mean if I got to room 165 at noon I’ll get free pizza and all I got to do is listen about some group/club/journal/origination/cause/problem? How bad can that be? I’m in!”

I’ve seriously sat through time share sales pitches that were more interesting than most of the crap I went to to get free food. I mean I went to the Black Law Students Association, the Latino Law Association, the Women’s Law Association, the Right to Life law Association, the Pro Choice law association, the law republicans, the law democrats, gay law students for equal right, evangelical law students for stoning people to death who are different, animal law association, BBQ Law group, Native Amercian law students. I had no shame but I did not pay for lunch for near on two years. My pasty white, fat balding male conservative ass would sit in the back of the room and say with a mouthful of free food “speak it brother!” “speak it sister!” “down with men” “free the amainls!” “This is some good BBQ” “You said it homie!” “abort that baby” “save that baby!”. I freely and openly support your [insert cause/compliant/mission here] if you feed me.


So... why was this stupid?  Sounds great to me.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Matthies on June 20, 2009, 01:58:23 PM
Stupid things I said as a 1L:
You mean if I got to room 165 at noon I’ll get free pizza and all I got to do is listen about some group/club/journal/origination/cause/problem? How bad can that be? I’m in!”

I’ve seriously sat through time share sales pitches that were more interesting than most of the crap I went to to get free food. I mean I went to the Black Law Students Association, the Latino Law Association, the Women’s Law Association, the Right to Life law Association, the Pro Choice law association, the law republicans, the law democrats, gay law students for equal right, evangelical law students for stoning people to death who are different, animal law association, BBQ Law group, Native Amercian law students. I had no shame but I did not pay for lunch for near on two years. My pasty white, fat balding male conservative ass would sit in the back of the room and say with a mouthful of free food “speak it brother!” “speak it sister!” “down with men” “free the amainls!” “This is some good BBQ” “You said it homie!” “abort that baby” “save that baby!”. I freely and openly support your [insert cause/compliant/mission here] if you feed me.


So... why was this stupid?  Sounds great to me.

cuase you habe to listen to people yap while your trying eat
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Julie Fern on June 20, 2009, 05:02:28 PM
what happen at meeting of anorexic society?
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Matthies on June 21, 2009, 07:53:40 AM
what happen at meeting of anorexic society?

I brought my own pizza and did not share
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 21, 2009, 08:47:20 AM
Oh sounds like very interesting. I am jealous, but glad for you lol. I skimmed over Plant Law School II, it seemed like some parts were too early to read as an OL. I read some parts of getting to maybe, and book is more helpful I think. Over here, they are making us read this book called "Expert Learning" and I think that was the best out of all of them. If you ever want to share your book title let us know and Ima try to check it out, but im sure you probably want to stay anonymous since you have a lot of posts in here and got knows what outlandish said somewhere like 1000 post ago lol
Eh, don't be jealous yet- it aint out yet and there's a major hold up since I feel weird about advising folks to prepare during the summer. If I did "sell out" (no pun intended) it would have been in bookstores already. Yeah once it drops, I certainly will come to the board and tell folks the title and to run out and buy 10 copies each on the BLSDB-love tip!  ;)
I do agree with you that Planet law school does talk about some things that are too early for a 0L as it goes into what goes down as a 2L and 3L.  My book centers on 1L and is written primarily for 1Ls and 0Ls. 
 Haven't read "Expert Learning" myself but it looked interesting. Have you heard of LEEWS (Legal Essay Exam Writing System) by Wentworth Miller - it's a primer book and CDs/live program.


Quote
but im sure you probably want to stay anonymous since you have a lot of posts in here and got knows what outlandish said somewhere like 1000 post ago lol
?
My anonymity isn't exactly to protect me but to protect individuals/ institutions/organizations that I would otherwise be putting on blast just by association.   :-X   

Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Obama2 on June 21, 2009, 02:27:57 PM
Eh, don't be jealous yet- it aint out yet and there's a major hold up since I feel weird about advising folks to prepare during the summer. If I did "sell out" (no pun intended) it would have been in bookstores already. Yeah once it drops, I certainly will come to the board and tell folks the title and to run out and buy 10 copies each on the BLSDB-love tip!  ;)
I do agree with you that Planet law school does talk about some things that are too early for a 0L as it goes into what goes down as a 2L and 3L.  My book centers on 1L and is written primarily for 1Ls and 0Ls. 
 Haven't read "Expert Learning" myself but it looked interesting. Have you heard of LEEWS (Legal Essay Exam Writing System) by Wentworth Miller - it's a primer book and CDs/live program.

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L

Get the book out, stop trying to hold out on us 0L's out there, its def good to hear you are actually focusing on 0Ls and 1Ls. And I see your point on the anonymus tip, Lord knows wuteva organization I end up associating with will want to clear themselves of my off the record comments.

I havent heard of LEEWS. This guy named Micheal Shwarts came in and did some presentation on IRAC methods and some speaker came in and gave us a program called ASPHEN LAW (I dont know if you heard of it) and it was really helpful with exam taking. What is it? it sounds interesting? or do I have to buy your book first? lol


Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 21, 2009, 03:57:17 PM

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L

When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

By the time you get to exams in December, EVERYBODY will know how to brief a case, outline, use lexis/westlaw, spot issues and all that stuff. But everybody won't get an A on the exam because it is one thing to take an exam when you are only being graded objectively, it is completely different when your essay grade depends on how 200+ other eually intelligent students wrote at the same time on the same issues.

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 22, 2009, 05:15:18 AM

When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

 

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.

Yep. And amen to the bolded.


Eh, don't be jealous yet- it aint out yet and there's a major hold up since I feel weird about advising folks to prepare during the summer. If I did "sell out" (no pun intended) it would have been in bookstores already. Yeah once it drops, I certainly will come to the board and tell folks the title and to run out and buy 10 copies each on the BLSDB-love tip!  ;)
I do agree with you that Planet law school does talk about some things that are too early for a 0L as it goes into what goes down as a 2L and 3L.  My book centers on 1L and is written primarily for 1Ls and 0Ls. 
 Haven't read "Expert Learning" myself but it looked interesting. Have you heard of LEEWS (Legal Essay Exam Writing System) by Wentworth Miller - it's a primer book and CDs/live program.

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L

Get the book out, stop trying to hold out on us 0L's out there, its def good to hear you are actually focusing on 0Ls and 1Ls. And I see your point on the anonymus tip, Lord knows wuteva organization I end up associating with will want to clear themselves of my off the record comments.

I havent heard of LEEWS. This guy named Micheal Shwarts came in and did some presentation on IRAC methods and some speaker came in and gave us a program called ASPHEN LAW (I dont know if you heard of it) and it was really helpful with exam taking. What is it? it sounds interesting? or do I have to buy your book first? lol




LOL- no, but buy my book anyway.  LEEWS is pretty interesting and comes highly recommended by most people.  I met the creator dude in person once- he seems to genuinely care about people finding the light through the fog that is law school. The program is pretty expensive around $175 during my first year and I don’t know if it’s gone up.  Just the primer would run you about $30.  I don’t think everyone needs it. And I think it applies mostly to “issue spotter” type examinations with multiple parties in the fact pattern.  But LEEWS does give some good strategies.  It discusses how to read a case, how to think of cases in an exam focused fashion, exam tips, etc.   
But like all of these types of things, it may create a sense of false sense of security.  Just because you got your hands on it doesn’t mean that you’ll do well.  Why? (1)  Everyone else could have gotten their hands on it as well and you’re graded on a curve (2) just getting the material/supplement isn’t going to do any good if you don’t know how to use it properly. I think 1Ls kinda feel like they’re in the clear as long as they’ve picked up some type of supplement from the bookstore.  Like they’re “safe”.  As I’ve said in my book the knowledge aint gonna get in your head by osmosis!

Actually the law school discussion board  is in my book- not mentioned by name of course but there was one particular ‘incident’ that I wanted the reader to know about when it comes to online networking. ;-)
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 22, 2009, 07:01:50 PM

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L



Classic.  Famous last words, young grasshopper.


When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

By the time you get to exams in December, EVERYBODY will know how to brief a case, outline, use lexis/westlaw, spot issues and all that stuff. But everybody won't get an A on the exam because it is one thing to take an exam when you are only being graded objectively, it is completely different when your essay grade depends on how 200+ other eually intelligent students wrote at the same time on the same issues.

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.



You beat me to it.

I will see this statement, and raise you the most important reason why studying during the summer does no good for 1L exams:

because you haven't met your professor yet.


You can spend the entire summer studying and memorizing that the tort of negligence is (i) duty, (ii) breach, (iii) causation, and (iv) damages and if your professor tells you during 1L that it is (i) bacon, (ii) lettuce, (iii) tomato, and (iv) sandwich, you better be BLT'in it on the final if you want an A.  Not only do you have to cater to your professor's substantive interpretation of the law, but, more importantly, you have to defer to his or her writing format preference.  Some professors want IRAC, some professors want RAC, and some professors want none of the above.  I had a crim professor, (no BS) who gave you X amount of lines for each answer, and your answer had to fit it within those 9 or 10 lines provided on the page because if you went over you were penalized!!!  I wish I was kidding.

So all of that to say, it's great that you're getting exposure to the general process of law school, but

(A) everybody starts from scratch on day 1, and

(B) the only grade that matters is the final


Speaking of which, Tru One brings up an excellent point that also f*cked me up during 1L - THE CURVE!!!  What folks don't understand about the curve is that you can literally score a 95% of an exam and still get a B or B- because that is where the curve is set.  My school had a strong B curve that was mathematically computed so that the majority of the class fell in the 2.95 to 3.05 range.  So that meant in any given class of, say 100, you had somewhere around 80 people who got some form of a B, maybe 10 people who got C's, and only 10 people who got A's, and the deviation between the three groups was LITERALLY just a few points on the exam.

Messed me up first semester, jack!


 

Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 22, 2009, 07:07:25 PM

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L



Classic.  Famous last words, young grasshopper.


When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

By the time you get to exams in December, EVERYBODY will know how to brief a case, outline, use lexis/westlaw, spot issues and all that stuff. But everybody won't get an A on the exam because it is one thing to take an exam when you are only being graded objectively, it is completely different when your essay grade depends on how 200+ other eually intelligent students wrote at the same time on the same issues.

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.



You beat me to it.

I will see this statement, and raise you the most important reason why studying during the summer does no good for 1L exams:

because you haven't met your professor yet.


You can spend the entire summer studying and memorizing that the tort of negligence is (i) duty, (ii) breach, (iii) causation, and (iv) damages and if your professor tells you during 1L that it is (i) bacon, (ii) lettuce, (iii) tomato, and (iv) sandwich, you better be BLT'in it on the final if you want an A.  Not only do you have to cater to your professor's substantive interpretation of the law, but, more importantly, you have to defer to his or her writing format preference.  Some professors want IRAC, some professors want RAC, and some professors want none of the above.  I had a crim professor, (no BS) who gave you X amount of lines for each answer, and your answer had to fit it within those 9 or 10 lines provided on the page because if you went over you were penalized!!!  I wish I was kidding.

So all of that to say, it's great that you're getting exposure to the general process of law school, but

(A) everybody starts from scratch on day 1, and

(B) the only grade that matters is the final


Speaking of which, Tru One brings up an excellent point that also f*cked me up during 1L - THE CURVE!!!  What folks don't understand about the curve is that you can literally score a 95% of an exam and still get a B or B- because that is where the curve is set.  My school had a strong B curve that was mathematically computed so that the majority of the class fell in the 2.95 to 3.05 range.  So that meant in any given class of, say 100, you had somewhere around 80 people who got some form of a B, maybe 10 people who got C's, and only 10 people who got A's, and the deviation between the three groups was LITERALLY just a few points on the exam.

Messed me up first semester, jack!


 



Lawd, they straight speaking the gospel up in here. :)
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: A. on June 22, 2009, 07:21:44 PM
I will see this statement, and raise you the most important reason why studying during the summer does no good for 1L exams:

because you haven't met your professor yet.


Exactly.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 23, 2009, 02:22:33 PM
Speaking of which, Tru One brings up an excellent point that also f*cked me up during 1L - THE CURVE!!!  What folks don't understand about the curve is that you can literally score a 95% of an exam and still get a B or B- because that is where the curve is set.  My school had a strong B curve that was mathematically computed so that the majority of the class fell in the 2.95 to 3.05 range.  So that meant in any given class of, say 100, you had somewhere around 80 people who got some form of a B, maybe 10 people who got C's, and only 10 people who got A's, and the deviation between the three groups was LITERALLY just a few points on the exam.

People really don't understand that the CURVE is what separates lawyers who work for Cravath from lawyers who work for Jimmy Jack Johnson and Associates.

Students think that because they graduated from the top of their class in Undergrad that they are GUARANTEED to be at the top of the curve because they are going to stay in the library longer than everybody else, and they are going to get the BETTER supplements than everybody else.

It is the the CURVE that will make you cry when you get your grade back in January, and there really isn't anything you can do about it except pray that your professor is feeling generous enough to take you out the B+ category and give you a coveted A.


Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Obama2 on June 24, 2009, 11:21:29 AM
Well well, I see lets school this 0L seminar has started lol and the references such as "young grasshoper" starting to come out lol, I feel like I am a freshman on the basketball team all over again lol

Truone & Sands, I see you put my typo on blast like that lol, its all good though I see how yall upperclassmen treating a young "grasshopers" lol. But I get your point that since its only one final, everyone will catch up in regards to technical parts of the lawschool aspect. And for me to argue other wise based on what I think it will be when people who have been through it tell me other wise, will be foolish and a bit naive. But to go down swinging I was looking at from the perspective of "thinking and writing like a lawyer". I felt like it is a mind set you never master and the longer your train yourself the quicker and the better you get at it. I guess that is more of a personal development. Also I was thinking mostly everyone will be on the same level intellectual abiliites and work ethic. Therefore having any kind of advantage, even a slim one, will make the difference of getting those extra few points who sets you apart from the curve. However since you guys have actually gone through the process, I will have to accept your inputs until the time comes for me to speak from first hand experience.


P.S on the curve comment, we just had some of writing assignment grades, graded on a curve, back and lets just say some people are not as "friendly" as they were in the beginning lol. I never seen a line form so quick behind a professor as the day we got our grades back lol
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Obama2 on June 24, 2009, 11:38:10 AM
Quote from: cui bono? link=topic=4019785.msg5344737#msg5344737 date=1245669318
[/quote

LOL- no, but buy my book anyway.  LEEWS is pretty interesting and comes highly recommended by most people.  I met the creator dude in person once- he seems to genuinely care about people finding the light through the fog that is law school. The program is pretty expensive around $175 during my first year and I don’t know if it’s gone up.  Just the primer would run you about $30.  I don’t think everyone needs it. And I think it applies mostly to “issue spotter” type examinations with multiple parties in the fact pattern.  But LEEWS does give some good strategies.  It discusses how to read a case, how to think of cases in an exam focused fashion, exam tips, etc.   
But like all of these types of things, it may create a sense of false sense of security.  Just because you got your hands on it doesn’t mean that you’ll do well.  Why? (1)  Everyone else could have gotten their hands on it as well and you’re graded on a curve (2) just getting the material/supplement isn’t going to do any good if you don’t know how to use it properly. I think 1Ls kinda feel like they’re in the clear as long as they’ve picked up some type of supplement from the bookstore.  Like they’re “safe”.  As I’ve said in my book the knowledge aint gonna get in your head by osmosis!

Actually the law school discussion board  is in my book- not mentioned by name of course but there was one particular ‘incident’ that I wanted the reader to know about when it comes to online networking. ;-)


I'll buy your book if you help me write mine lol, is that a good deal? lol. Liking the osmosis anaology. On a serious tip, LEEWS sounds very interesting, I wonder why they havent mentioned it at our program yet. We have like 2 to 3 presenters come in every week and try to tell us how their programs are the best thing for law student. There are so many of them out there, I feel like they are not trying to help but just making a business  and taking advantage of naive 0L's anxiety. Im sure a small percentage of them mean well there is way too much solicitaion going on.  I am glad you pointed out"false sense of security" because I can see how we can easily use these suppliments as a shortcut and rely on them. Lets hope I wont be one of those, I wont even allow my self to open any suppiments right now for these courses I am taking lol, I figured i should get the work habit down first!

About Online networking, am I networking right now? lol And I see you gangin up on me with your peers. TSK TSK..poor 0L ME ~ tear tear~ lol
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: cui bono? on June 24, 2009, 12:01:47 PM

I'll buy your book if you help me write mine lol, is that a good deal? lol. Liking the osmosis anaology. On a serious tip, LEEWS sounds very interesting, I wonder why they havent mentioned it at our program yet. We have like 2 to 3 presenters come in every week and try to tell us how their programs are the best thing for law student. There are so many of them out there, I feel like they are not trying to help but just making a business  and taking advantage of naive 0L's anxiety. Im sure a small percentage of them mean well there is way too much solicitaion going on.  I am glad you pointed on "false sense of security" because I can see how we can easily use these suppliments as a shortcut and rely on them. Lets hope I wont be one of I wont end up using work to suppliment the suppliment instead of the other day around. lol

About Online networking, am I networking right now? l And I see you gangin up on me with your peers. TSK TSK..poor 0L ME ~ tear tear~ lol

LOL, deal.   Feel free to use the osmosis analogy.  But it’s already in the book. ;-)

Yes, all of those presenters are absolutely banking on your (the generic “your”, not you specifically) 1L anxiety.  Yep all.  Even the well meaning ones.  Once my book is out, I’ll be doing the exact same thing, only responsibly.  Their advice shouldn’t be discounted but listened to but taken with a grain of salt.  See if what they’re saying makes sense.  Don’t do like a lot of 1Ls do (like I did) and blindly follow someone’s advice just because they went through it before you.  Even my advice, before you follow it, see if it makes sense to you.  Although I cosign everything A and Sands have said, see if their advice makes sense to you before you follow it.  Absolutely everything anyone and everyone says to you -at least silently question it.  Why am I saying this?  Because I blindly followed one 3L for a good portion of my first year.  Everything she said I did.  After all, she was a 3L so she did something right, right?  Wrong!  And it screwed me up royally the first semester.  You gotta at least ask yourself ‘why is this person telling me this?’.  Keep in mind that some upperclassmen are just trying to get you to join their organization or validate their own poor choices they made as a 1L.  Long story short: my pseudo-mentor  did not do well her entire law school career. She was always at the bottom of her class.  She also did not network and is now at the PD’s office.  Nothing wrong with the PD’s office but there is if you don’t want to be there.   

Re: online networking.  Yes, you are networking right now and it could translate to real life.   I once went to an event and someone that I had just met said “good to finally meet you”.   [my LSD name was initially “finally”] Didn’t get it at first until he repeated it.  Dude recognized the picture I had in my avatar. Cool guy though. 

LOL, not “ganging up”.  Dropping knowledge.


P.S on the curve comment, we just had some of writing assignment grades, graded on a curve, back and lets just say some people are not as "friendly" as they were in the beginning lol. I never seen a line form so quick behind a professor as the day we got our grades back lol

Yep, that's bound to happen. Funniest thing to see is that people form new friendships/study groups after the first semester grades come out. 
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 24, 2009, 03:23:11 PM
Well well, I see lets school this 0L seminar has started lol and the references such as "young grasshoper" starting to come out lol, I feel like I am a freshman on the basketball team all over again lol

Truone & Sands, I see you put my typo on blast like that lol, its all good though I see how yall upperclassmen treating a young "grasshopers" lol. But I get your point that since its only one final, everyone will catch up in regards to technical parts of the lawschool aspect. And for me to argue other wise based on what I think it will be when people who have been through it tell me other wise, will be foolish and a bit naive. But to go down swinging I was looking at from the perspective of "thinking and writing like a lawyer". I felt like it is a mind set you never master and the longer your train yourself the quicker and the better you get at it. I guess that is more of a personal development. Also I was thinking mostly everyone will be on the same level intellectual abiliites and work ethic. Therefore having any kind of advantage, even a slim one, will make the difference of getting those extra few points who sets you apart from the curve. However since you guys have actually gone through the process, I will have to accept your inputs until the time comes for me to speak from first hand experience.


P.S on the curve comment, we just had some of writing assignment grades, graded on a curve, back and lets just say some people are not as "friendly" as they were in the beginning lol. I never seen a line form so quick behind a professor as the day we got our grades back lol

You are going to see that a lot during 1st semester. It stops once grades come back and people realize that talking to the Professor right after every single class DOES NOT HELP.

As far as networking, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND doing it. Hell, networking is what helped land me at my firm right now, and it helped me get the Clerkship I'll be doing this fall after I finish this soul-draining exam. Networking can come in all types of forms, it might start off with a question and it might turn into you and that person going to the same law school or being in the same BLSA Region and meet up at a convention, you never know.

Just follow what everyone says with a grain of salt and remember that you only have to suffer thru LS for 3 years, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 24, 2009, 08:20:47 PM
"Better to go to Harvard than a full ride at Columbia."

I just LOL when I hear that now.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Eugene Young on June 24, 2009, 10:00:51 PM

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L



Classic.  Famous last words, young grasshopper.


When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

By the time you get to exams in December, EVERYBODY will know how to brief a case, outline, use lexis/westlaw, spot issues and all that stuff. But everybody won't get an A on the exam because it is one thing to take an exam when you are only being graded objectively, it is completely different when your essay grade depends on how 200+ other eually intelligent students wrote at the same time on the same issues.

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.



You beat me to it.

I will see this statement, and raise you the most important reason why studying during the summer does no good for 1L exams:

because you haven't met your professor yet.


You can spend the entire summer studying and memorizing that the tort of negligence is (i) duty, (ii) breach, (iii) causation, and (iv) damages and if your professor tells you during 1L that it is (i) bacon, (ii) lettuce, (iii) tomato, and (iv) sandwich, you better be BLT'in it on the final if you want an A.  Not only do you have to cater to your professor's substantive interpretation of the law, but, more importantly, you have to defer to his or her writing format preference.  Some professors want IRAC, some professors want RAC, and some professors want none of the above.  I had a crim professor, (no BS) who gave you X amount of lines for each answer, and your answer had to fit it within those 9 or 10 lines provided on the page because if you went over you were penalized!!!  I wish I was kidding.

So all of that to say, it's great that you're getting exposure to the general process of law school, but

(A) everybody starts from scratch on day 1, and

(B) the only grade that matters is the final


Co-muthafuckin sign!!!  You're not taking K's or Torts, you're taking Ks or Torts according to Professor XYZ.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 25, 2009, 08:30:52 AM

People really don't understand that the CURVE is what separates lawyers who work for Cravath from lawyers who work for Jimmy Jack Johnson and Associates.





You stupid, kid!   :D


But naw that Curve is the grand mother of all mothers.  I got a B+ in my torts class and afteward I walked into the professor who knew me very well to talk about my grade.  So he asks me for my exam #, I give it to him, he searches through the stack, pulls out my exam and you shoulda seen the look on his face - I think he was more shocked than I was when I saw the grade posted.  He immediately says to me "[Mr. Sands], I don't know what happened here.  I thought for sure you were one of my A papers."

yeah, you and me both buddy.

As he later went on to explain, this was our small section so the class size was somewhere around 20 students, and he was mathematically allowed by the administration to give out only 2 A's.  He straight up told me "if it's any consolation, this is an 'A' paper, and in a larger class you would have certainly received an A."

But not this time. Thanks a lot, curve.



Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 25, 2009, 08:40:33 AM
Well well, I see lets school this 0L seminar has started lol and the references such as "young grasshoper" starting to come out lol, I feel like I am a freshman on the basketball team all over again lol

Truone & Sands, I see you put my typo on blast like that lol, its all good though I see how yall upperclassmen treating a young "grasshopers" lol. But I get your point that since its only one final, everyone will catch up in regards to technical parts of the lawschool aspect. And for me to argue other wise based on what I think it will be when people who have been through it tell me other wise, will be foolish and a bit naive. But to go down swinging I was looking at from the perspective of "thinking and writing like a lawyer". I felt like it is a mind set you never master and the longer your train yourself the quicker and the better you get at it. I guess that is more of a personal development. Also I was thinking mostly everyone will be on the same level intellectual abiliites and work ethic. Therefore having any kind of advantage, even a slim one, will make the difference of getting those extra few points who sets you apart from the curve. However since you guys have actually gone through the process, I will have to accept your inputs until the time comes for me to speak from first hand experience.


P.S on the curve comment, we just had some of writing assignment grades, graded on a curve, back and lets just say some people are not as "friendly" as they were in the beginning lol. I never seen a line form so quick behind a professor as the day we got our grades back lol


It's all good. Like I said, it's good that you're getting exposure now.  But as you see from the testimony here, studying hard core before 1L is like running a 5K marathon on your own just before meeting up with everybody to run the official 10K marathon together for a grade. 

As far as "thinking like a lawyer," it's a skill that always seemed to evade us as we made our way through law school, but that becomes more and more clear the longer you practice law.  Don't worry, you'll get there in time.

Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 25, 2009, 09:15:05 AM
Keep in mind that some upperclassmen are just trying to get you to join their organization or validate their own poor choices they made as a 1L.  Long story short: my pseudo-mentor  did not do well her entire law school career. She was always at the bottom of her class.  She also did not network and is now at the PD’s office.  Nothing wrong with the PD’s office but there is if you don’t want to be there.   


This is important. Following that same logic, I think it's important for you (cui bono) to share with those you advise on where you ended up in your class so they know what context to put this advice into.  (haven't read the book yet obviously but you probably do that already)

Just as it is important for you (Obama2) to be very much aware of where the people ended up using their own advice that they are now imparting onto you.  If I tell you to brief cases all day everyday up until the final, and you do it without asking me "so...how'd that whole briefing cases everyday thing work out for ya?" then you could be setting yourself up for failure.

When I was taking the bar exam I purposely sought advice from 2 types of people: those who passed, and those who failed.

I found both groups extremely helpful, and necessary, however the group who failed was overwhelmingly more able to say EXACTLY what did not work and what was a waste of time.  The group who passed were basically only able to tell me what they did, but not necessarily what EXACTLY made them pass.  You feel me? 

But no matter if they failed or if they passed, at the VERY BEGINNING of the conversation my first question to all of them up front was "ok so did you pass or did you fail?"  Straight up.  And folks will have no problem telling you how they did, be it the bar exam or in law school in general.  And from that moment forward you know how to better listen to that person's advice and incorporate it into your mental study strategy as either something to do or something not to do.

So that's my biggest piece of advice to you as you continue to be inundated by the 1000's of pieces of advice that you will undoubtedly receive between now and your first 1L exam - KNOW WHO YOU ARE GETTING ADVICE FROM!!!!!

Word is bond.

Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Matthies on June 25, 2009, 10:12:44 AM

People really don't understand that the CURVE is what separates lawyers who work for Cravath from lawyers who work for Jimmy Jack Johnson and Associates.





You stupid, kid!   :D


But naw that Curve is the grand mother of all mothers.  I got a B+ in my torts class and afteward I walked into the professor who knew me very well to talk about my grade.  So he asks me for my exam #, I give it to him, he searches through the stack, pulls out my exam and you shoulda seen the look on his face - I think he was more shocked than I was when I saw the grade posted.  He immediately says to me "[Mr. Sands], I don't know what happened here.  I thought for sure you were one of my A papers."

yeah, you and me both buddy.

As he later went on to explain, this was our small section so the class size was somewhere around 20 students, and he was mathematically allowed by the administration to give out only 2 A's.  He straight up told me "if it's any consolation, this is an 'A' paper, and in a larger class you would have certainly received an A."

But not this time. Thanks a lot, curve.





I was in a really small section class (11 people) out of 100 points I got 99.4, next grade behind mine was a 99 highest grade 99.5, I got a B+, why? Because to make the curve a straight 3.0 as required she could only give one A, and no A-, so I was .10 from the highest grade in the class but got lumped into the B+’s along with people who missed as many as 4 whole points to make the curve work.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 25, 2009, 05:19:16 PM

People really don't understand that the CURVE is what separates lawyers who work for Cravath from lawyers who work for Jimmy Jack Johnson and Associates.





You stupid, kid!   :D


But naw that Curve is the grand mother of all mothers.  I got a B+ in my torts class and afteward I walked into the professor who knew me very well to talk about my grade.  So he asks me for my exam #, I give it to him, he searches through the stack, pulls out my exam and you shoulda seen the look on his face - I think he was more shocked than I was when I saw the grade posted.  He immediately says to me "[Mr. Sands], I don't know what happened here.  I thought for sure you were one of my A papers."

yeah, you and me both buddy.

As he later went on to explain, this was our small section so the class size was somewhere around 20 students, and he was mathematically allowed by the administration to give out only 2 A's.  He straight up told me "if it's any consolation, this is an 'A' paper, and in a larger class you would have certainly received an A."

But not this time. Thanks a lot, curve.





I was in a really small section class (11 people) out of 100 points I got 99.4, next grade behind mine was a 99 highest grade 99.5, I got a B+, why? Because to make the curve a straight 3.0 as required she could only give one A, and no A-, so I was .10 from the highest grade in the class but got lumped into the B+’s along with people who missed as many as 4 whole points to make the curve work.


Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn, son!  You got ROBBED!!!!!!!!!! 

That ain't right I tell ya.  Ain't right.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: TruOne on June 25, 2009, 06:04:47 PM
I found both groups extremely helpful, and necessary, however the group who failed was overwhelmingly more able to say EXACTLY what did not work and what was a waste of time.  The group who passed were basically only able to tell me what they did, but not necessarily what EXACTLY made them pass.  You feel me?

What did the FAILED people have to say? Cuz I'm close to freakin' out my-damn-self.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 26, 2009, 01:38:03 PM
I found both groups extremely helpful, and necessary, however the group who failed was overwhelmingly more able to say EXACTLY what did not work and what was a waste of time.  The group who passed were basically only able to tell me what they did, but not necessarily what EXACTLY made them pass.  You feel me?

What did the FAILED people have to say? Cuz I'm close to freakin' out my-damn-self.

I'll post it in the bar exam thread.
Title: Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
Post by: Obama2 on June 28, 2009, 12:14:09 PM
Truone, Cui Bono?, Sands...check your inbox. I PMed you since I didnt want to keep hijacking this thread. Hope all is well. lata!!