Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: MuMuGuy on March 27, 2009, 06:56:48 PM

Title: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: MuMuGuy on March 27, 2009, 06:56:48 PM
Hi all, I'll be starting school in the fall. I want to buy different hornbooks and other study aids now so that I'll have stuff ready for my 1L classes. How many extra books would you all recommend for each of the 1L classes? I know in LSC, the author recommended that people only buy 1 extra book due to time issues preventing people from using more than 1 book for each subject.

Also, which book(s) should I buy for each 1L class? Thanks in advance
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Ninja1 on March 28, 2009, 03:16:00 AM
Most profs will tell you what they think is the best supplement for their class if you ask them. Some even just announce it. And at least in the case of FSU, most of the supplements are usually available in the library.

That said, I wouldn't waste my time. Anything they want you to know, they'll cover in class. And believe me, the last thing you're going to want to do during your first semester is read ANOTHER 400-500 pages of Ks or torts or whatever, most of which will be highly redundant or irrelevant to your class.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on March 28, 2009, 09:57:58 AM
Most profs will tell you what they think is the best supplement for their class if you ask them. Some even just announce it. And at least in the case of FSU, most of the supplements are usually available in the library.

That said, I wouldn't waste my time. Anything they want you to know, they'll cover in class. And believe me, the last thing you're going to want to do during your first semester is read ANOTHER 400-500 pages of Ks or torts or whatever, most of which will be highly redundant or irrelevant to your class.

I tend to agree.  However, I don't think supplements are a bad thing if you don't stress yourself over it and read them leisurely (yes, I just typed that!  :D) just to get the very basics of, e.g., contract law.  Having the basics down will help you when many students are very confused at the beginning of the semester just trying to get the basics understood.  (And this could reduce your original stress levels.)

A friend of mine who is an attorney once told me that you don't take a subject, but you take a professor, with all his quirks, etc.  I tend to buy that.  I've had quite a few professors say that they *only* recommend certain supplements, and that you risk following the wrong path if you read unrecommended supplements because they: a) don't cover many of the concepts; b) don't agree with their interpretations; or c) a combination of the above.

Just a few things to think about.   
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Ninja1 on March 28, 2009, 01:24:25 PM
Most profs will tell you what they think is the best supplement for their class if you ask them. Some even just announce it. And at least in the case of FSU, most of the supplements are usually available in the library.

That said, I wouldn't waste my time. Anything they want you to know, they'll cover in class. And believe me, the last thing you're going to want to do during your first semester is read ANOTHER 400-500 pages of Ks or torts or whatever, most of which will be highly redundant or irrelevant to your class.

I tend to agree.  However, I don't think supplements are a bad thing if you don't stress yourself over it and read them leisurely (yes, I just typed that!  :D) just to get the very basics of, e.g., contract law.  Having the basics down will help you when many students are very confused at the beginning of the semester just trying to get the basics understood.  (And this could reduce your original stress levels.)

A friend of mine who is an attorney once told me that you don't take a subject, but you take a professor, with all his quirks, etc.  I tend to buy that.  I've had quite a few professors say that they *only* recommend certain supplements, and that you risk following the wrong path if you read unrecommended supplements because they: a) don't cover many of the concepts; b) don't agree with their interpretations; or c) a combination of the above.

Just a few things to think about.   

This is actually pretty spot on. Also, supplements can be helpful for clearing up some trouble area you're having. But yeah, you totally take a professor as much if not more than a class.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on March 29, 2009, 07:48:30 AM
This is actually pretty spot on. Also, supplements can be helpful for clearing up some trouble area you're having. But yeah, you totally take a professor as much if not more than a class.

Yeah.  There is so much to learn in these subjects that professors often pick and choose, like a buffet.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Terrible Ivan on March 29, 2009, 03:52:58 PM

The only supplements I've ever bought were Glannon Q&A for CivPro and Chemerinsky for ConLaw. I got them both used for a couple bucks off eBay. Glannon publishes newer versions, but heck, there's only a couple exam-worthy things that have changed in the last 5 years on the rules of procedure.

Here's my frank advice:

At first, only buy the main textbook for each class (the one you see with all the readings assigned). Don't buy the supplements, 'suggested readings,' etc., until you know you'll need them (that is, you've been assigned substantive readings in them). I think I still have a model rules supplement, a treaty supplement, some K collection, and a crappy Nutshell book around here somewhere that were wastes.

Try not to buy books that are in your library (esp. ones that are on permanent reserve). And don't ever get a Blacks Law Dictionary; the day you do, someone will give you one as a gift.

Save your money for a laptop lock so you can go take a piss while in the library without risking your laptop getting stolen.

Ivan
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: just Trev on March 30, 2009, 06:46:21 PM

The only supplements I've ever bought were Glannon Q&A for CivPro and Chemerinsky for ConLaw. I got them both used for a couple bucks off eBay. Glannon publishes newer versions, but heck, there's only a couple exam-worthy things that have changed in the last 5 years on the rules of procedure.

Here's my frank advice:

At first, only buy the main textbook for each class (the one you see with all the readings assigned). Don't buy the supplements, 'suggested readings,' etc., until you know you'll need them (that is, you've been assigned substantive readings in them). I think I still have a model rules supplement, a treaty supplement, some K collection, and a crappy Nutshell book around here somewhere that were wastes.

Try not to buy books that are in your library (esp. ones that are on permanent reserve). And don't ever get a Blacks Law Dictionary; the day you do, someone will give you one as a gift.

Save your money for a laptop lock so you can go take a piss while in the library without risking your laptop getting stolen.

Ivan


cooley, huh?
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on March 30, 2009, 06:50:19 PM
cooley, huh?

Actually, that is good advice at any law school.  While it's not prevalent, theft does happen at law schools.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Terrible Ivan on March 30, 2009, 07:55:06 PM
Me, at Cooley? Nope. I'm at the U of Georgia (lol...not really...).

I'm more like that guy in Arizona last year who was willing to give up his wallet to some burglar, but he drew the line at his laptop. See #3 at http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/12/top_law_school_stories_2008_1.php

I don't know anybody at my school whose laptop has been stolen. But I regularly see students from the medical school in our library studying, and since they're accruing twice the debt as us law students, I'm going on the safe side.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: sheltron5000 on March 30, 2009, 08:33:27 PM
Me, at Cooley? Nope. I'm at the U of Georgia (lol...not really...).

I'm more like that guy in Arizona last year who was willing to give up his wallet to some burglar, but he drew the line at his laptop. See #3 at http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/12/top_law_school_stories_2008_1.php

I don't know anybody at my school whose laptop has been stolen. But I regularly see students from the medical school in our library studying, and since they're accruing twice the debt as us law students, I'm going on the safe side.

lolz


OTN: Getting to maybe, and IN THIS ECONOMY!!!! the guerrilla guide to the law job of your dreams, might be good to get, even if you don't buy supplements. I also liked law school confidential, but at this point in the cycle you might only need the last two thirds...
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Ninja1 on March 31, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
cooley, huh?

Actually, that is good advice at any law school.  While it's not prevalent, theft does happen at law schools.

The staff at FSU's law library advised us to either take our laptops with us if we leave the library for any amount of time or have locks since we're technically a public library and the public can come in during normal business hours as such (key swipe required otherwise). They say they haven't had many problems, but every once in a while...

There are at least a few sketchy people in there everyday, usually just old guys researching divorce law or something, but sometimes some serious tweaker looking dudes probably trying to figure out how to do pro se legal work to defend themselves from charges stemming from moving work.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on March 31, 2009, 06:55:24 AM
cooley, huh?

Actually, that is good advice at any law school.  While it's not prevalent, theft does happen at law schools.

The staff at FSU's law library advised us to either take our laptops with us if we leave the library for any amount of time or have locks since we're technically a public library and the public can come in during normal business hours as such (key swipe required otherwise). They say they haven't had many problems, but every once in a while...

There are at least a few sketchy people in there everyday, usually just old guys researching divorce law or something, but sometimes some serious tweaker looking dudes probably trying to figure out how to do pro se legal work to defend themselves from charges stemming from moving work.

I've heard at my school that there are people who stake out the library during finals time and steal things when people leave.  (And no, they don't seem to be law students, or even students for that matter.)  A supplement was stolen from my friend last semester.   :-\ 
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: just Trev on March 31, 2009, 03:57:55 PM
cooley, huh?

Actually, that is good advice at any law school.  While it's not prevalent, theft does happen at law schools.

The staff at FSU's law library advised us to either take our laptops with us if we leave the library for any amount of time or have locks since we're technically a public library and the public can come in during normal business hours as such (key swipe required otherwise). They say they haven't had many problems, but every once in a while...

There are at least a few sketchy people in there everyday, usually just old guys researching divorce law or something, but sometimes some serious tweaker looking dudes probably trying to figure out how to do pro se legal work to defend themselves from charges stemming from moving work.

I've heard at my school that there are people who stake out the library during finals time and steal things when people leave.  (And no, they don't seem to be law students, or even students for that matter.)  A supplement was stolen from my friend last semester.   :-\ 

that's freakin' wild...

what is this world coming to...?
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on March 31, 2009, 04:30:28 PM
that's freakin' wild...

what is this world coming to...?

It's a jungle out there.  Academia tries to sterilize everything but that's that way it is.   :-\
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: mnewboldc on March 31, 2009, 06:31:39 PM
Success with law school exams is all about knowing how to mirror your professors' thinking. Study aids should assist this process while deviating as little as possible. Since you don't know how your professors think until you interact with them, you should wait to purchase study aids until you arrive.

This might be a little disconcerting, because you want to start studying now, and the first few weeks will probably be tough. Trust me, you're better served waiting until you arrive. But take care of the problem early. Ask your profs what they recommend. If they're vague, try to locate second-year students and get their recommendations. If you've been assigned a "mentor," this might be a good place to start.

Depending on what kind of schoolwide listserv you have, it will doubtlessly be inundated with messages from 2Ls and 3Ls selling casebooks and supplements early in the year. Check the name of each seller against the names of your school's law review masthead, and try to buy supplements from the names that match, provided these sellers had the same professor that you did.

Also, and I can't stress this enough: try to find outlines from 2L students that did well. Sometimes the folks you buy casebooks/supplements from will throw in their outlines if they like you. This doesn't mean you shouldn't write your own, but it can be an indispensible from an organizational standpoint.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: mtbrider59 on April 01, 2009, 01:07:36 PM
For incoming 1Ls- don't, just don't, enjoy you're time before school starts its the last chance you'll have for a while.. and sleep.. ditto
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: just Trev on April 01, 2009, 04:22:10 PM
this is not a slam against anyone, especially not the last poster, but i do wonder if the frequent advice "don't study at all the summer before 1L, just relax, you'll be plenty tired of law school by the time it starts" ever come from students who eventually finished top 10%?? 

anyone who finished top 10% giving out this advice to 0Ls??
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: sheltron5000 on April 01, 2009, 04:36:55 PM
<--0L but....

I think it makes a lot of sense to follow everyone's advice to not study the summer before, get all your sh*t together, but don't wast your last bit of leisure time studying. The only book that seems to promote studying is planet lawschool, and that guy's a total nutcase.

I plan to spend the time with friends, and getting everything ready for the job search: refreshing my resume, trying to get a handle on firms/judges/NPOs I might want to intern for next summer, getting moved, and getting to know my way around wherever I end up going.

Which is not to say I'm going to avoid law completely, I'll read a ton of non-academic stuff about the legal system and whatnot, just because I enjoy it, and it can help give a big picture view of law. (BTW, I HIGHLY recommend _the nine_).

I really think that other than the big picture stuff (which is really what all those law preview type programs are designed to give) there's not much you can do to prepare except get ready to read your but off.

Maybe take a speed reading class?
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on April 01, 2009, 05:30:57 PM
this is not a slam against anyone, especially not the last poster, but i do wonder if the frequent advice "don't study at all the summer before 1L, just relax, you'll be plenty tired of law school by the time it starts" ever come from students who eventually finished top 10%?? 

anyone who finished top 10% giving out this advice to 0Ls??

That's a good question.  I'd be interested to see this.

FWIW, I read a little bit of E&E's just before school and my grades were good last semester.  Of course, that could be due to other reasons, but I just wanted to add a little anecdotal evidence.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on April 01, 2009, 05:40:18 PM
<--0L but....

I think it makes a lot of sense to follow everyone's advice to not study the summer before, get all your sh*t together, but don't wast your last bit of leisure time studying. The only book that seems to promote studying is planet lawschool, and that guy's a total nutcase.

I just want to add, from a 1L's perspective, that "Planet Law School" is not as crazy as it seems to be.  (Although the guy is indeed crazy, his general ideas have merit.) 


I plan to spend the time with friends, and getting everything ready for the job search: refreshing my resume, trying to get a handle on firms/judges/NPOs I might want to intern for next summer, getting moved, and getting to know my way around wherever I end up going.

Which is not to say I'm going to avoid law completely, I'll read a ton of non-academic stuff about the legal system and whatnot, just because I enjoy it, and it can help give a big picture view of law. (BTW, I HIGHLY recommend _the nine_).


This is a good plan. 


I really think that other than the big picture stuff (which is really what all those law preview type programs are designed to give) there's not much you can do to prepare except get ready to read your but off.

Maybe take a speed reading class?

Yeah, all you need is the "big picture stuff," and you shouldn't spend more than a few bucks to learn it either. 
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Ninja1 on April 02, 2009, 12:36:24 PM
I didn't study up on anything before I started, taking the old advice that seems to be common place, and I think it was a mistake.

Now, I'm not saying to try to learn torts or anything this summer, but take some time to familiarize yourself with some basic terms and overarching concepts in everything you'll take during your first semester and you'll be much better off for your efforts. I'd honestly say reading through the wikipedia articles on the topics you'll cover a few times should be pretty sufficient. Try to understand what you can, and don't worry about what you can't.

Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: just Trev on April 02, 2009, 03:20:28 PM
but ninja, the wiki article appropriately titled "torts" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torts) is based on the UK perspective...

is that what i need?

is there no book with all the subjects conveniently covered with a deep (but not too deep) big picture analysis??
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Matthies on April 02, 2009, 04:12:11 PM
but ninja, the wiki article appropriately titled "torts" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torts) is based on the UK perspective...

is that what i need?


No, the english are nuts
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Ninja1 on April 02, 2009, 05:09:30 PM
but ninja, the wiki article appropriately titled "torts" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torts) is based on the UK perspective...

is that what i need?

is there no book with all the subjects conveniently covered with a deep (but not too deep) big picture analysis??

The English are crazy, but some of the older stuff is still good law in the US. Find the US articles for best results.

As far as I'm aware, there isn't any single book like you describe... mayhaps I need to write one...
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: just Trev on April 04, 2009, 12:23:40 PM
we could at least begin an online version.  we could get everyone on LSD to contribute to it for posterity's sake....
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Matthies on April 04, 2009, 01:13:45 PM
we could at least begin an online version.  we could get everyone on LSD to contribute to it for posterity's sake....
'
Then it would be 100% wrong, unless lawdog wrote it of course
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: Ninja1 on April 04, 2009, 02:26:45 PM
we could at least begin an online version.  we could get everyone on LSD to contribute to it for posterity's sake....
'
Then it would be 100% wrong, unless lawdog wrote it of course

TITCR.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: k0em9u on April 04, 2009, 02:48:35 PM
I find this thread to be full of weird advice. If I had to pick between supplements or case books, I'd go with the supplements every day of the week.

Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: sheltron5000 on April 06, 2009, 09:18:03 AM
The book I recommended earlier (http://www.amazon.com/Law-101-Everything-American-System/dp/0195179579/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239030816&sr=8-1) does this quite well.


It goes through some of the history of various significant cases in all the basic areas of law, talks about basic BBL stuff (what is a tort etc...), and discusses some of the major areas of controversy (including tort reform).


A+ for content,
B- for organization.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on April 06, 2009, 03:19:14 PM
I find this thread to be full of weird advice. If I had to pick between supplements or case books, I'd go with the supplements every day of the week.

Dude, what are you talking about?  Most of the people in this thread are endorsing supplements!  I think you're inferring things that are not present....
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: sheltron5000 on April 06, 2009, 03:30:55 PM
I find this thread to be full of weird advice. If I had to pick between supplements or case books, I'd go with the supplements every day of the week.

Dude, what are you talking about?  Most of the people in this thread are endorsing supplements!  I think you're inferring things that are not present....

I've decided to simply ignore k0em9u in the future, as virtually none of their posts make any sense.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on April 06, 2009, 05:46:08 PM
I've decided to simply ignore k0em9u in the future, as virtually none of their posts make any sense.

None of "their" posts make sense?   :D

Honestly, I don't really know this poster.  I'm not on here as regularly as I used to be.  I'll give him/her
the benefit of the doubt still, as it's only one post....
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: sheltron5000 on April 06, 2009, 05:48:35 PM
what? I'm trying to work in the gender neutral "they" I hate "/": his/her, s/he... 8)

ETA: some punctuation so it doesn't look like I hate k0em9u. I don't I just don't understand them. at all.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on April 06, 2009, 06:43:18 PM
what? I'm trying to work in the gender neutral "they" I hate / his/her, s/he... 8)

Haha. 
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: k0em9u on April 07, 2009, 05:44:57 PM
I find this thread to be full of weird advice. If I had to pick between supplements or case books, I'd go with the supplements every day of the week.


Dude, what are you talking about?  Most of the people in this thread are endorsing supplements!  I think you're inferring things that are not present....

Most, but not all. Wasn't intended to be an attack or a summary of people for and against supplements or anything. Simply stating the opinion that supplements do you more good than case books do. You're free to disagree, that was simply my experience

I've decided to simply ignore k0em9u in the future, as virtually none of their posts make any sense.

None of "their" posts make sense?   :D

Honestly, I don't really know this poster.  I'm not on here as regularly as I used to be.  I'll give him/her
the benefit of the doubt still, as it's only one post....

Not sure if I'm being stalked or it is just too obvious, but we are in fact two people posting from this account. One current 1L and one '08 graduate who is not yet fired from her job (yay!).
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: just Trev on April 07, 2009, 06:32:42 PM
I find this thread to be full of weird advice. If I had to pick between supplements or case books, I'd go with the supplements every day of the week.


Dude, what are you talking about?  Most of the people in this thread are endorsing supplements!  I think you're inferring things that are not present....

Most, but not all. Wasn't intended to be an attack or a summary of people for and against supplements or anything. Simply stating the opinion that supplements do you more good than case books do. You're free to disagree, that was simply my experience

I've decided to simply ignore k0em9u in the future, as virtually none of their posts make any sense.

None of "their" posts make sense?   :D

Honestly, I don't really know this poster.  I'm not on here as regularly as I used to be.  I'll give him/her
the benefit of the doubt still, as it's only one post....

Not sure if I'm being stalked or it is just too obvious, but we are in fact two people posting from this account. One current 1L and one '08 graduate who is not yet fired from her job (yay!).

this just begs more questions than it answers...
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: k0em9u on April 07, 2009, 06:34:58 PM
Any questions in particular?
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on April 07, 2009, 06:46:12 PM

Most, but not all. Wasn't intended to be an attack or a summary of people for and against supplements or anything. Simply stating the opinion that supplements do you more good than case books do. You're free to disagree, that was simply my experience


I never thought you intended any ill will towards anyone via your comment.  However, I perused the entire thread after you made the comment, and it still doesn't make much sense, which was the reason for my first reply to your comment.  Even if it's true that some people disagree with you, you admit that most people in this thread stated that supplements are better.  So it's odd for you to make a statement along the lines of, "I can't believe that the percentage of people who would take supplements over casebooks isn't 100," since you're rarely going to find a unanimity on anything in life, especially on a law students' forum. 

And no, I agree with you entirely.  Supplements are much better. 

Not sure if I'm being stalked or it is just too obvious, but we are in fact two people posting from this account. One current 1L and one '08 graduate who is not yet fired from her job (yay!).

Yeah, I had no clue that 2 people are posting from this account.  That's interesting.  Why not just use 2 separate user names?
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: sheltron5000 on April 07, 2009, 09:30:16 PM
So I AM psychic!!
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: just Trev on April 08, 2009, 10:54:19 AM

[/quote]

Yeah, I had no clue that 2 people are posting from this account.  That's interesting.  Why not just use 2 separate user names?
[/quote]

yeah, this one...
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: k0em9u on April 08, 2009, 04:52:29 PM

Most, but not all. Wasn't intended to be an attack or a summary of people for and against supplements or anything. Simply stating the opinion that supplements do you more good than case books do. You're free to disagree, that was simply my experience


I never thought you intended any ill will towards anyone via your comment.  However, I perused the entire thread after you made the comment, and it still doesn't make much sense, which was the reason for my first reply to your comment.  Even if it's true that some people disagree with you, you admit that most people in this thread stated that supplements are better.  So it's odd for you to make a statement along the lines of, "I can't believe that the percentage of people who would take supplements over casebooks isn't 100," since you're rarely going to find a unanimity on anything in life, especially on a law students' forum. 

And no, I agree with you entirely.  Supplements are much better. 

Not sure if I'm being stalked or it is just too obvious, but we are in fact two people posting from this account. One current 1L and one '08 graduate who is not yet fired from her job (yay!).

Yeah, I had no clue that 2 people are posting from this account.  That's interesting.  Why not just use 2 separate user names?

The "other person" would be my girlfriend, and she graduated from law school in '08 and do not really seem all that interested, so she just used my account a couple of times to make some posts regarding her school.

So I AM psychic!!

Hell yeah! Or lucky. Either will serve you well in law school.
Title: Re: How many and what are the best books to buy for 1L classes?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on April 08, 2009, 08:51:36 PM
Oh, I see.  Cool.