Law School Discussion

Law Students => Incoming 1Ls => Topic started by: justice4u on March 16, 2009, 11:17:05 AM

Title: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: justice4u on March 16, 2009, 11:17:05 AM
As many other soon-to-be 1Ls can attest to,entering Law School is frightening. This is in great part due to the stigma associated with Law School. The stigma is often perpetuated in blogs, websites and threads like this one and we all know what it sounds like. "Law School is nothing like college and is not for everyone", "if you were a straight A student in college, it don't mean jack in law school", " Law School is the most difficult thing you will encounter in your whole life". So my question is how difficult can it really be? In college i have taken constitutional law, civil procedures, criminal law etc. I have done very well in all of these classes. It seems as though in every class there are cases you study to try and understand particular issues and in the end of the semester you are tested on those issues with different set of facts of course (hypotheticals). So what's the difference? In response to the question i posed, i am expecting for my fears to be validated because i am very well aware that Law School is different from college. I would just love to know how?
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: SamE397 on March 16, 2009, 11:43:54 AM
It depends

1. On yourself, how self motivated and dedicated you are, and how well you can handle stress

2. The environment of the school

I think the point of law school books that try to 'scare' you into realizing that law school is a lot of work are primarily just to trying to make you come to grips with the fact that law is serious and that you shouldn't be going into if you're not ready for a large work load. As patronizing as that may sound unfortunately it probably needs to be said because there are people who don't really know what to expect from law school who wind up in it just because they didn't know what else to do or were following friends.

Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Tetris on March 16, 2009, 03:50:07 PM
"Law School is nothing like college and is not for everyone", "if you were a straight A student in college, it don't mean jack in law school", " Law School is the most difficult thing you will encounter in your whole life".

TITCR
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: botbot on March 16, 2009, 05:28:44 PM
"Law School is nothing like college and is not for everyone"

Take the bad parts of college, multiply by 3.  Take the good parts of college, divide by 3.

Quote
"if you were a straight A student in college, it don't mean jack in law school"

It really depends why you were a straight A student.

Quote
" Law School is the most difficult thing you will encounter in your whole life".

No.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: nerfco on March 17, 2009, 09:42:33 AM
Law school is not hard. Doing well in law school can be quite difficult and time-consuming. This is a function of a grading curve, and other students also putting a lot of time into the material.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on March 17, 2009, 09:48:25 AM
Law school is not hard. Doing well in law school can be quite difficult and time-consuming. This is a function of a grading curve, and other students also putting a lot of time into the material.

This is more or less credited.

Because you're already taken CivPro, you have a general idea of the material -- and, indeed, the material is not hard.  The problem is that it's hard on a curve.  Imagine your best college classes, and now imagine your grades in those classes if you were evaluated entirely relative to your peers.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Matthies on March 17, 2009, 10:00:56 AM
I don’t think law school or the law is particularly difficult. What is hard is adjusting to a new way of thinking, being tested and presenting your ideas. Some folks will find that they adjust quicker than others. It just depends on how fast you “get it.” You will have some folks in your class who need to study 12 hours a day to get top grades and others who can coast and do the same thing. Its not that one is more intelligent than the other, its just more likely the later person just “thinks” in the way that works for law school more naturally than does the former.
 
The quicker you “get it” the easier law school becomes. I found that as soon as I stopped thinking in right/wrong, yes/no ways, like stopped forming an opinion as I read the case, the easier the whole process was, the sooner I dumped preconviced notions the easier it was for me to absorb what I was being taught and apply it, kind of like learning a new language either by emersion or looking up individual words in English to get their meaning in say Spanish. The piecemeal way is harder, the immersive changing the way you think method is easier in the long run, once you get that everything is cake.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Harrison on March 18, 2009, 01:04:37 AM
Law school is not hard. Doing well in law school can be quite difficult and time-consuming. This is a function of a grading curve, and other students also putting a lot of time into the material.

This is more or less credited.

Because you're already taken CivPro, you have a general idea of the material -- and, indeed, the material is not hard.  The problem is that it's hard on a curve.  Imagine your best college classes, and now imagine your grades in those classes if you were evaluated entirely relative to your peers.
And further imagine that these "peers" truly are your intellectual equals, all studying as hard as they can stand.  At least for the good schools, everyone has gotten high grades and is smart.  The party-hearty and slacker types don't last.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: just dot on March 23, 2009, 04:25:38 PM
Law school is not hard. Doing well in law school can be quite difficult and time-consuming. This is a function of a grading curve, and other students also putting a lot of time into the material.

I agree with this.  The hardest part of law school is the amount of work, not the actual material.  You will have a lot of reading and if you add in some study aids or supplements, it can really be overwhelming.  You can study all of the time and still feel like there is more you could/should be studying.  You just have to strike a balance and make peace with it. 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: "That One" on March 24, 2009, 07:51:39 PM
How hard law school will seem depends on how hard your undergrad major was (IMO).  If you had a piece of cake major that required little to no effort then the workload will seem huge.  Please note that I am not saying you will get better grades if you had a difficult major.  I am just saying that the workload will seem more manageable.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: "That One" on March 24, 2009, 07:58:22 PM
I don’t think law school or the law is particularly difficult. What is hard is adjusting to a new way of thinking, being tested and presenting your ideas. Some folks will find that they adjust quicker than others. It just depends on how fast you “get it.” You will have some folks in your class who need to study 12 hours a day to get top grades and others who can coast and do the same thing. Its not that one is more intelligent than the other, its just more likely the later person just “thinks” in the way that works for law school more naturally than does the former.
 
The quicker you “get it” the easier law school becomes. I found that as soon as I stopped thinking in right/wrong, yes/no ways, like stopped forming an opinion as I read the case, the easier the whole process was, the sooner I dumped preconviced notions the easier it was for me to absorb what I was being taught and apply it, kind of like learning a new language either by emersion or looking up individual words in English to get their meaning in say Spanish. The piecemeal way is harder, the immersive changing the way you think method is easier in the long run, once you get that everything is cake.


TITCR...you could memorize every ounce of Black Letter and still get a B+.  If you want to do well in law school it is all about ANALYSIS.  Remember this phrase "it depends" lol.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Tetris on March 25, 2009, 07:27:21 PM
I don’t think law school or the law is particularly difficult. What is hard is adjusting to a new way of thinking, being tested and presenting your ideas. Some folks will find that they adjust quicker than others. It just depends on how fast you “get it.” You will have some folks in your class who need to study 12 hours a day to get top grades and others who can coast and do the same thing. Its not that one is more intelligent than the other, its just more likely the later person just “thinks” in the way that works for law school more naturally than does the former.
 
The quicker you “get it” the easier law school becomes. I found that as soon as I stopped thinking in right/wrong, yes/no ways, like stopped forming an opinion as I read the case, the easier the whole process was, the sooner I dumped preconviced notions the easier it was for me to absorb what I was being taught and apply it, kind of like learning a new language either by emersion or looking up individual words in English to get their meaning in say Spanish. The piecemeal way is harder, the immersive changing the way you think method is easier in the long run, once you get that everything is cake.


TITCR...you could memorize every ounce of Black Letter and still get a B+.  If you want to do well in law school it is all about ANALYSIS.  Remember this phrase "it depends" lol.

Other useful phrases:

"On one hand... On the other hand..."
"Plaintiff contends... defendant contends..."
"Under common law... alternatively..."
"Based on the underlying purpose of the statute, plaintiff's interpretation is superior because..."

Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on March 25, 2009, 07:32:24 PM
Tetris: have you read fiver's LS exam tips?  She's a SCOTUS clerk who went to your school.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Matthies on March 25, 2009, 07:46:13 PM
I don’t think law school or the law is particularly difficult. What is hard is adjusting to a new way of thinking, being tested and presenting your ideas. Some folks will find that they adjust quicker than others. It just depends on how fast you “get it.” You will have some folks in your class who need to study 12 hours a day to get top grades and others who can coast and do the same thing. Its not that one is more intelligent than the other, its just more likely the later person just “thinks” in the way that works for law school more naturally than does the former.
 
The quicker you “get it” the easier law school becomes. I found that as soon as I stopped thinking in right/wrong, yes/no ways, like stopped forming an opinion as I read the case, the easier the whole process was, the sooner I dumped preconviced notions the easier it was for me to absorb what I was being taught and apply it, kind of like learning a new language either by emersion or looking up individual words in English to get their meaning in say Spanish. The piecemeal way is harder, the immersive changing the way you think method is easier in the long run, once you get that everything is cake.


TITCR...you could memorize every ounce of Black Letter and still get a B+.  If you want to do well in law school it is all about ANALYSIS.  Remember this phrase "it depends" lol.

Other useful phrases:

"On one hand... On the other hand..."
"Plaintiff contends... defendant contends..."
"Under common law... alternatively..."
"Based on the underlying purpose of the statute, plaintiff's interpretation is superior because..."



Or this that I actually wrote on my property exam:

“ At this point I have no freaking idea who owns Blackacre, who has  vested interest in it, who’s is springing, who has the remainder, hell I don’t really care at this point. The only person I know for sure that does not own Blackacre is me, because if I did I would sell the damn thing and quit law school after taking your test.”

I got an A-.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: "That One" on March 25, 2009, 08:51:33 PM
I don’t think law school or the law is particularly difficult. What is hard is adjusting to a new way of thinking, being tested and presenting your ideas. Some folks will find that they adjust quicker than others. It just depends on how fast you “get it.” You will have some folks in your class who need to study 12 hours a day to get top grades and others who can coast and do the same thing. Its not that one is more intelligent than the other, its just more likely the later person just “thinks” in the way that works for law school more naturally than does the former.
 
The quicker you “get it” the easier law school becomes. I found that as soon as I stopped thinking in right/wrong, yes/no ways, like stopped forming an opinion as I read the case, the easier the whole process was, the sooner I dumped preconviced notions the easier it was for me to absorb what I was being taught and apply it, kind of like learning a new language either by emersion or looking up individual words in English to get their meaning in say Spanish. The piecemeal way is harder, the immersive changing the way you think method is easier in the long run, once you get that everything is cake.


TITCR...you could memorize every ounce of Black Letter and still get a B+.  If you want to do well in law school it is all about ANALYSIS.  Remember this phrase "it depends" lol.

Other useful phrases:

"On one hand... On the other hand..."
"Plaintiff contends... defendant contends..."
"Under common law... alternatively..."
"Based on the underlying purpose of the statute, plaintiff's interpretation is superior because..."



Or this that I actually wrote on my property exam:

“ At this point I have no freaking idea who owns Blackacre, who has  vested interest in it, who’s is springing, who has the remainder, hell I don’t really care at this point. The only person I know for sure that does not own Blackacre is me, because if I did I would sell the damn thing and quit law school after taking your test.”

I got an A-.


I've always wanted to draw a giant middle finger
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: nailemlaw on March 26, 2009, 05:10:00 PM
Variations of all of the above are true.  Law school is more difficult because of the amount of material you're expected to have at your fingertips while simultaneously needing to be able to effectively talk about it. 

Imagine needing to learn the vocab for three different languages all at the same time...that's what it's like.

http://www.nailemlaw.com
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Tetris on March 28, 2009, 09:22:29 PM
To the OP:

(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x274/Idranktheseawater/nervousbreakdown.jpg)
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: no634 on March 30, 2009, 06:08:02 AM
I think it depends on the quality of law school that you attend, but the main thing that makes law school different is the grading curve.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: UNC0L on March 31, 2009, 09:22:31 PM
This is why I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to take a summer prep course.  I've been out of school for 2 years, and get the feeling that 1L is going to be rough.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on March 31, 2009, 10:45:28 PM
This is why I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to take a summer prep course.  I've been out of school for 2 years, and get the feeling that 1L is going to be rough.

It's not.  Law school is all about taking a few exams.  Don't bother going to class or reading if you can do that.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Alfalfa on April 02, 2009, 08:15:25 PM
Here is the problem:  I did very well in a mediocre undergrad.  3.8 GPA.  My LSAT is in the top 25% for the "tier 1" school I attend.  I made law review.

I am also in the bottom 35% of my class because I can't write a good law school exam.

That means no OCI interviews.
No clerkship possibilities
Passed over for all national public interest positions
No government honors programs will take me
Very few options

And I am well spoken, and generally no one in my school would suspect that this is my position in the class. I got a C- in a 5 credit property class 1L year (the prof said "I probably would have given you a B if I had graded this early, but it must have been one of the last exams I looked at.").  My confidence was shaken by being in the middle of the class (literally a B average) after the first semester, so my grades kept falling. 

I am graduating in 2 months and don't have a job.  I worry all the time.

Before law school, I was reading this forum and wondering how bad could it be?  I feel like the dumbest person in all my classes. Though I do understand what I read, I can't write a good law school exam.  I wish I would have dropped out after my 1L year.  The idiots that are supposed to counsel us at my law school said I should stick it out.  Bad advice.

I am miserable, and my anxiety about all this has made my grades worse. 

That's how difficult it can be.

Oh, and I have over $100,000 in debt.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: LawDog3 on April 02, 2009, 08:35:10 PM
1L: They scare you to death (so it will be mentally exhausting)
2L: They work you to death (so it will be physically AND mentally exhausting)
3L: They bore you to death (so it will be emotionally exhausting)

Or so I have heard...lol.

That said, I would think about Richard Montauk's suggestion: an LLM program. Do well and get a specialty; that might be a good way to recover. But I could be wrong. You also could look at cutting your chops the hard way, go work pro-bono for some local agency or non-profit.

I also know a guy who started out in the sales department at Microsoft and moved into the marketing department. Then, one day he approached HR with his desire to move into legal, and a spot opened up.

Another way is to look at Goldman Sachs's Legal and Management Controls Department. They hire people who aren't even lawyers yet to work in a legal setting. Maybe with your degree they will connect you with a good mentor and you can get into corporate law that way.

Defer on your loans and do some looking around. Entertainment Law is another way to go. Seek out the production companies, call and write Warner Bros. or Arista Records. Heck, write Bad Boy Records! Entertainment Law is more about WHO you know anyways, and in that area of law, they don't care as much about class rank or grades. It's more of a people business.

Do you have charisma and people skills? Can you schmooze a Beyonce' into signing a soft drink deal? That's what they care about. Make it happen man! You are a graduate from a top-tier law school...nobody can f_ck with you! Have that attitude.

Do some legwork on your own...you can still reach your goals. In fact, now you are in a great position b/c nobody controls you. You're free. No billable hours minimum, no cutthroat law office politics.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but you are three years ahead of most of the grads in your class, do you realize that? Most of them will either be out of a job in three years or looking to switch...and they'll be looking to design their own careers. You're already there, so take advantage of that.

Remember, when one door closes, another one opens. 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 02, 2009, 09:00:57 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Slumdog Lovebutton on April 02, 2009, 09:09:04 PM
To the OP: before law school starts, spend a lot of time talking to people who really enjoyed their 1L year (there are a bunch of us).  Once you get to school, surround yourself socially with people who seem to be keeping the whole thing in perspective.  You might need to avoid certain friends when finals come around if they have a propensity to freak out.  Law school is a challenge, and I think the right attitude to enter with is not that you will be in the top 10% of your class (90% of people will fail at this), but that you will try your best while still maintaining some degree of balance (much higher success rate).
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 02, 2009, 09:19:26 PM
I co-sign Slumdog's post.  And now back to Richardson and the UCC knock-out rule for battle of the forms.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Alfalfa on April 02, 2009, 10:34:37 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

When I have gone to see professors about my exams, I have heard, "This is OK, but just average.  You could have done more analysis." So on the next semester's exams, I tried to do more analysis.  Then I got more average grades and was told, "This is good, there were just others that were more sophisticated in their analysis."  Well, there's not much I can do about that.  However, they never give you an example of what they mean, or an "A" exam to look at.  All I can say, is that I have been really involved in doing internships, and sometimes have been slightly stressed b/c of journal demands, and it seems to have affected my ability to do well. 

I also go to school with those who went to Columbia, Harvard, have PhDs from academically challenging programs, etc and I just don't measure up.  What all of you fail to get is that there ARE people smarter than you are who will be in your law school classes.  Some are just "naturals" at legal reasoning, and can reflect that in their writing, and you may only be below average on 2 or 3 exams and it will put you at the bottom of the class, like I am. 

And if that happens, it really sucks, and you can try and try, and just only be in the middle (or lower half).  That really cuts your prospects. 

Please note as well, that because the economy is in crisis, there are thousands of unemployed experienced lawyers looking for the same jobs I am.  And grades matter, even in public interest and small firms.  Period. 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 02, 2009, 11:06:27 PM
Odd.  I'm really sorry to hear that.  At my T10, they give us model answers and I use them to study and learn how to write a good exam.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Alfalfa on April 02, 2009, 11:16:16 PM
Odd.  I'm really sorry to hear that.  At my T10, they give us model answers and I use them to study and learn how to write a good exam.

Seriously?  They give you model answers?  Why the heck can't my school do this? 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: vap on April 03, 2009, 07:52:22 AM
Odd.  I'm really sorry to hear that.  At my T10, they give us model answers and I use them to study and learn how to write a good exam.

Seriously?  They give you model answers?  Why the heck can't my school do this? 

You should get some exam answers from students who have already taken the course.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: LawDog3 on April 03, 2009, 02:17:45 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

I am going to have so much fun creaming you arroggant phonies. Just like I did in undergrad...you are next.

See you in class or Moot Court.  ;)
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: k0em9u on April 03, 2009, 02:45:11 PM
Is Law School harder than college? Yes.

Is Law School the hardest thing you'll ever do in your life? @#!* no.

This is just a result of how ridiculously bad undergrad studies are in this country, sorry. Law school is no harder than you'd expect a professional school to be. Yes, it's going to be a full time occupation 5 days a week, 7 days a week when LRW *&^% is due.

For anyone that has ever done anything other than high school and college, (i.e. had a career) there is no reason to be frightened by law school. I went through 1L with both a family and a social life, I still had time to go party, go catch some NBA and MLB games (football is *&^% anyway), I traveled away for several weekends. In short, I maintained a completely normal life while doing very well in 1L. There is no reason to worry and no reason to freak out.

There were certain people in my class that spent essentially every waking hour studying, but come end of semester none of them did better than those of us who approached it in a more, well, sane approach.

One note to keep in mind though; your professors are going to tell you time after time not to spend your money on supplements/commercial outlines. They are f-ing with your heads. As far as I am considered the supplements are more important than the case books. Hell, you can look up the cases on Lexis/Westlaw/Wikipedia. The supplements will teach you what actually matters.

It's a full time study. No more. No less.

Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 03, 2009, 02:58:44 PM
Good post.

Two lessons:

1. Ignore everything your professor says about studying and grades.  They're professors.  They don't know *&^% about what it's like to be in the trenches, worrying about a real job.

2. Learn how to write a good exam.  This is the be all, end all of law school.  Law school = exam.  Exam = law school.  Nothing else matters.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: k0em9u on April 03, 2009, 09:16:49 PM
Sadly, that needs confirmation. The one thing that shocked me in law school was the bull they are feeding you. And I'm not talking about inflated employment statistics, just... the whole package.

Get LEEWS (www.leews.com). It will help you miles when it comes to exam taking. Your professor will tell you not to obsess about black letter law. This is bull. And this is also where supplements really come in helpful. For every single page you read, think about how this is relevant to your exam not how it will help you get questions right in class. Even if your professor is Kingsfield redux, the exam is what is important. And while I only have experience from 1 law school I have to say, the Socratic method doesn't seem to be what it used to be. I haven't had any professors that go out of their way to be a male private part to anyone.

One thing you should take for granted though; if you have to pass when a professor calls on you, you better be damn well prepared next class. But I'm gonna assume that to be common sense.

Oh, yeah, most important thing about law school. It's perfectly fine to get drunk on Thursdays.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: contrarian on April 08, 2009, 04:46:16 PM

And I am well spoken, and generally no one in my school would suspect that this is my position in the class. I got a C- in a 5 credit property class 1L year (the prof said "I probably would have given you a B if I had graded this early, but it must have been one of the last exams I looked at.").  My confidence was shaken by being in the middle of the class (literally a B average) after the first semester, so my grades kept falling. 


If that was indeed written on your exam, then you should argue that you do indeed deserve the B.  This is basically the professor stating that people may have, and probably were, given better grades and you given a worse one for the wholly arbitrary fact of in what order the exams were graded.  Such an admission makes not only your grade suspect, but calls into question the fairness that the professor gives to each and everyone of the papers he grades. 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: bl825 on April 13, 2009, 05:15:22 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

I am going to have so much fun creaming you arroggant phonies. Just like I did in undergrad...you are next.

See you in class or Moot Court.  ;)

This is funny because every time I see one of LawDog's posts my thoughts are, word for word: "What an arrogant phony!"

;)
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: lawness on April 15, 2009, 07:17:31 AM
Sadly, that needs confirmation. The one thing that shocked me in law school was the bull they are feeding you. And I'm not talking about inflated employment statistics, just... the whole package.

Get LEEWS (www.leews.com). It will help you miles when it comes to exam taking. Your professor will tell you not to obsess about black letter law. This is bull. And this is also where supplements really come in helpful. For every single page you read, think about how this is relevant to your exam not how it will help you get questions right in class. Even if your professor is Kingsfield redux, the exam is what is important. And while I only have experience from 1 law school I have to say, the Socratic method doesn't seem to be what it used to be. I haven't had any professors that go out of their way to be a male private part to anyone.

One thing you should take for granted though; if you have to pass when a professor calls on you, you better be damn well prepared next class. But I'm gonna assume that to be common sense.

Oh, yeah, most important thing about law school. It's perfectly fine to get drunk on Thursdays.

Can anyone seriously attest to LEEWS? I am contemplating using this.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 15, 2009, 11:19:34 AM
No. 

Listen, guys: you either have it or you don't.  I'm sorry to break it to you, but law school exam-taking is about formulating quick arguments and seeing things quickly and more clearly than your peers.  No amount of study will change your grades, beyond the minimum required to vaguely understand the BLL.

And this is coming from someone who partially bought all this bull about GTM last year.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Matthies on April 15, 2009, 12:17:18 PM
No. 

Listen, guys: you either have it or you don't.  I'm sorry to break it to you, but law school exam-taking is about formulating quick arguments and seeing things quickly and more clearly than your peers.  No amount of study will change your grades, beyond the minimum required to vaguely understand the BLL.

And this is coming from someone who partially bought all this bull about GTM last year.

Wally one thing that might help you to “get it” is go back to reading the cases, I think you said you stopped doing that. The reasoning in them is there to teach you the thinking part that can’t be learned by reading supplements or how to books. You just get it by seeing it over and over so many times its changes the way you “think” about things. Once you got that part you can skip reading them, but I dare say they are more valuable than knowing the BLL by heart just for how they reason out the answer to the problem at hand. Its that reasoning by doing, in this case reading, that teaches your reason on the tests. Like the case method or hate it, it does work for teaching through osmosis the thinking like a lawyer part, as long as you understand that’s the point to reading them in the first place, you can look up and get a clearer BL rule elsewhere, they are there to teach you the WHY not the WHAT.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 15, 2009, 12:25:21 PM
Eh.  There are only a few tropes that come up again and again, like the intent behind a statute, or how the law might apply to the facts.

Case method is pretty much useless, IMO.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: mbw on April 15, 2009, 01:34:20 PM
No. 

Listen, guys: you either have it or you don't.  I'm sorry to break it to you, but law school exam-taking is about formulating quick arguments and seeing things quickly and more clearly than your peers.  No amount of study will change your grades, beyond the minimum required to vaguely understand the BLL.

And this is coming from someone who partially bought all this bull about GTM last year.

Sigh.

Wally, it really is unfortunate that law school has been such a disappointment to you, but I think you shouldn't generalize your own experience to everyone's.  There are some people to "have it", some who are able to learn it, and, well, some who may not be able to learn it, for whatever reason.  Just because you may not be in the second category doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 15, 2009, 01:53:17 PM
We'll see how you feel about that in a year.  I said the same thing to myself, but never forget that 90% of your class will not be in the top 10%.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: PreLawBootCamp on April 15, 2009, 02:52:43 PM
In college, I had nearly straight A's at a very reputable school. Law school was completely different.

In college, I knew how to write-- it was basically effortless.  In fact, I held a research fellowship through a well-known foundation that actually paid me to do research and write articles on my findings.  Law school writing was completely different.

In college, there was no mystery.  I knew exactly what I needed to do to get A's.  Law school was completely different.

It's a whole new ballgame.  But contrary to some of the bull that people have written here, you can LEARN how to do it.  You can learn how to study for law school.  You can learn how to prepare for law school exams.

Just accept the fact that it's a different way of thinking.   

Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Denny Shore on April 15, 2009, 03:35:50 PM
- 100 pages of reading per class, per week minimum (most of this reading is disjointed, difficult, and in very small print - I had to buy reading glasses to relieve eye strain)
- Having to stand up in class and openly expose your intellect and understanding in front of 70 or so people who think they are smarter than you
- I wrote 3 memos in the first semester that contained legal analysis and required hours of research.  The first was 8 pages, the second was 14 pages, and the third was 26 pages.  Screw up the analysis?  Fail. 
- Pressure to perform.  In undergrad, very few classes adhere to a strict curve.  In law school, particularly in the first year, many schools adopt a curve that requires 10% of the class to get a D or an F, regardless of the percentage of correct answers.  I know someone who got 85% of the answers correct and still got a C-.  Converesly, I know biology majors who answered 35% of their finals questions correct and received a B+.
- Law students are more competitive, more driven, and typically smarter than your average college student.
- College courses are about learning simple facts and formulas.  Law School courses are about learning facts and formulas, then being able to recognize issues and apply what you've learned to a specific set of hypothetical fact patterns.
- You can screw off in college and still pass classes.  You can't 'fake it' through law school.  Those who think they can often find out that, in fact, you can't.
- Money stress.  Colleges, especially in state tuition, is reasonable.  Law school tuitions tend to be staggering.  Going through classes knowing that you might graduate with $150k in debt can really mess with your head.
- Law professors.  College prof's tend to be approachable, nice, and want you to succeed.  Law school profs send the signal that they are unapproachable jerks who want you to fail because you are wasting their time.
- Studying.  I passed a few college courses by 'cramming' the material.  You can't cram for law school finals.
- grading.  Most college courses have graded assignments and it is easy to figure out where you stand throughout the semester.  Most law school courses have no graded assignments and your entire grade comes from the results of a 3 hour test at the end of the semester.  Oh yeah, there isn't extra credit in law school.

Law school is likely to be the most difficult challenge you will have faced in your life.  Don't take it lightly.

Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: nerfco on April 15, 2009, 05:10:12 PM
- Studying.  I passed a few college courses by 'cramming' the material.  You can't cram for law school finals.

You can most certainly cram for law school finals.

To make matters worse, you know absolutely nothing about the practice of law.  I cannot argue a motion, write a motion, write a will, perform a real estate closing, or even give my mom basic tax advice.

You are a 1L. If you want to be able to argue or write motions better, there are certainly clinics and seminars that will help you get practice at this.

I'd hate to imagine a 1L curriculum that was designed so students could give their parents basic tax advice. Hire an accountant.  :P
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: finderskeepers on April 15, 2009, 05:10:58 PM
No. 

Listen, guys: you either have it or you don't.  I'm sorry to break it to you, but law school exam-taking is about formulating quick arguments and seeing things quickly and more clearly than your peers.  No amount of study will change your grades, beyond the minimum required to vaguely understand the BLL.

And this is coming from someone who partially bought all this bull about GTM last year.

Wally one thing that might help you to “get it” is go back to reading the cases, I think you said you stopped doing that. The reasoning in them is there to teach you the thinking part that can’t be learned by reading supplements or how to books. You just get it by seeing it over and over so many times its changes the way you “think” about things. Once you got that part you can skip reading them, but I dare say they are more valuable than knowing the BLL by heart just for how they reason out the answer to the problem at hand. Its that reasoning by doing, in this case reading, that teaches your reason on the tests. Like the case method or hate it, it does work for teaching through osmosis the thinking like a lawyer part, as long as you understand that’s the point to reading them in the first place, you can look up and get a clearer BL rule elsewhere, they are there to teach you the WHY not the WHAT.


I second this.  I know reading/briefing cases isn't "cool" but I think it works and I think it's better than relying on supplements.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: mbw on April 15, 2009, 05:21:39 PM
Denny is right.  The worst thing about exams is that the feedback on them is extremely limited, and I mean extremely.  Profs will almost never tell you what you did wrong, and, even if they do, they mask it in oblique ways that you can't really understand ("argue the issue!  work on your rule statements!  think harder about what the issues may say!")

The whole thing is just three years of f-ing with you until legal practice, which teaches you that, ironically, law school taught you virtually nothing worthwhile.  Sure, it taught you to think "like a lawyer," but let me give you a little secret: thinking like a lawyer is basically being anal and analytical.  Any smart college student can already do it.  Applying a statute doesn't require three years of frustration.  To make matters worse, you know absolutely nothing about the practice of law.  I cannot argue a motion, write a motion, write a will, perform a real estate closing, or even give my mom basic tax advice.  My legal knowledge is limited to irrelevant 19th century opinions like Peerless and Palsgraf.

You want the punch line?  It doesn't even prepare you for the Bar.  At the end of this ordeal, you have to pay thousands in order to learn the law.  Yes, learn the law!!!


Trust me.  It totally, totally sucks, especially in this economy.  People are under absurd amounts of stress, and it doesn't get much better when you run after an offer at some big firm where they might lay you off at any minute.  The sole thing that keeps me up in the mornings is the idea that, somehow, for some reason, I'll be a good attorney, or at least work BigLaw for a few years in order to pay off my debt.

That, or I'm already in too deep.

Wally, didn't you read PLSII last year?  The bolded above is pretty much the central theme of the book.  Plenty of people go into law school with their eyes wide open and don't have to go through the intense shock that you apparently have gone through.

I don't expect I'll be the smartest person in the class, or even anywhere close.  But I plan on working hard, and working smart, and try my best not to get caught up in the typical law school hysteria/frenetic angst.  I expect it will be one of the harder things I've ever done, but certainly not the hardest.  But I think people need to go in with realistic goals and ideas, not the predetermined doom and gloom you predict is inevitable.  
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 15, 2009, 05:46:54 PM
Huh?  I don't rely on supplements.  I rely on old outlines and skim the readings.  And I think I take enough practice exams to understand how to argue law on the real thing, but maybe not.

I keep forgetting that students here don't stay in the chi threads.  Whoops, d-dub time.  Ah, well.

ETA: Yeah, mbw, I mostly like scaring the n00bs.  I mean, I've done fine by any realistic measure.  Also, don't forget that so many things in life are different when experienced first-hand.  I know that BigLaw work is draining, but I'm sure I'll still be shocked when/if I have to work more than 60 hour weeks.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: finderskeepers on April 15, 2009, 06:00:55 PM
Huh?  I don't rely on supplements.  I rely on old outlines and skim the readings.  And I think I take enough practice exams to understand how to argue law on the real thing, but maybe not.

I keep forgetting that students here don't stay in the chi threads.  Whoops, d-dub time.  Ah, well.

ETA: Yeah, mbw, I mostly like scaring the n00bs.  I mean, I've done fine by any realistic measure.  Also, don't forget that so many things in life are different when experienced first-hand.  I know that BigLaw work is draining, but I'm sure I'll still be shocked when/if I have to work more than 60 hour weeks.


So are you saying you rely on other students' interpretations of cases to learn BLL? 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: mbw on April 15, 2009, 06:07:13 PM
Huh?  I don't rely on supplements.  I rely on old outlines and skim the readings.  And I think I take enough practice exams to understand how to argue law on the real thing, but maybe not.

I keep forgetting that students here don't stay in the chi threads.  Whoops, d-dub time.  Ah, well.

ETA: Yeah, mbw, I mostly like scaring the n00bs.  I mean, I've done fine by any realistic measure.  Also, don't forget that so many things in life are different when experienced first-hand.  I know that BigLaw work is draining, but I'm sure I'll still be shocked when/if I have to work more than 60 hour weeks.

Here's where we differ, Wally.  I've worked political campaigns most of my adult life - 60 hrs/week is nuthin'.  ;D
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on April 15, 2009, 06:11:53 PM
Wally one thing that might help you to “get it” is go back to reading the cases, I think you said you stopped doing that. The reasoning in them is there to teach you the thinking part that can’t be learned by reading supplements or how to books. You just get it by seeing it over and over so many times its changes the way you “think” about things. Once you got that part you can skip reading them, but I dare say they are more valuable than knowing the BLL by heart just for how they reason out the answer to the problem at hand. Its that reasoning by doing, in this case reading, that teaches your reason on the tests. Like the case method or hate it, it does work for teaching through osmosis the thinking like a lawyer part, as long as you understand that’s the point to reading them in the first place, you can look up and get a clearer BL rule elsewhere, they are there to teach you the WHY not the WHAT.

I strongly concur.  I've found (naturally this is just anecdotal evidence, so take it for what it's worth) that many of those who actually really spend the time and read the cases understand the reasoning AND the BLL much better.  They go hand-in-hand--learning one allows you to learn the other much better.  I know it definitely has worked for me, and it seems to work for others. 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on April 15, 2009, 06:58:29 PM
Huh?  I don't rely on supplements.  I rely on old outlines and skim the readings.  And I think I take enough practice exams to understand how to argue law on the real thing, but maybe not.

I keep forgetting that students here don't stay in the chi threads.  Whoops, d-dub time.  Ah, well.

ETA: Yeah, mbw, I mostly like scaring the n00bs.  I mean, I've done fine by any realistic measure.  Also, don't forget that so many things in life are different when experienced first-hand.  I know that BigLaw work is draining, but I'm sure I'll still be shocked when/if I have to work more than 60 hour weeks.


So are you saying you rely on other students' interpretations of cases to learn BLL? 

I skim the cases, listen in class.

I find that, after I read them, I retain very little, but that may be a delusion.  Perhaps I'll take the UnbiasedObserver route and read the cases during the last quarter.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: k0em9u on April 18, 2009, 08:44:33 AM
I'm gonna have to side with OI here, case law studies do nothing for me. Maybe if I studied for the sake of learning to "think like a lawyer" it would be great, but my only motivation is studying to do well on the exam. Memorizing BLL serves that purpose perfectly, since professors (at least mine) are not looking for you to draw the right conclusions, they are simply looking for you to identify the issue and pick the right test on how to determine it. Bonus for mentioning the case you got it from. As soon as you have the right BLL test, you just insert the standard "The court could interpret this to be unconstitutional because x,y and z. On the other hand, the court could also find that factor p is sufficient as a compelling state interest".

Substitute the buzz words with whatever happens to fit in the course in question.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: LawDog3 on April 27, 2009, 01:34:43 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

I am going to have so much fun creaming you arroggant phonies. Just like I did in undergrad...you are next.

See you in class or Moot Court.  ;)

This is funny because every time I see one of LawDog's posts my thoughts are, word for word: "What an arrogant phony!"

;)

No you don't. I am the star of this site and you know it. And my posts are dead-on. I notice you always attack ME and not my arguments...b/c you can't. You need to listen and learn.

And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.

As for you and your...GANG? It's just like it always has been, you can't fight your own battles, or any battle where you are on even footing. COWARDS. Cannot fight in neutral territory, cannot fight one on one, cannot fight someone of equal size, and the White men cannot fight other Black men. I'm not talking about physical warfare, I'm talking about ALL warfare. You are so brave to co-sign with other critics. Oh...such a big toughie!  :(

I have never had any White man engage me one on one and on neutral territory. Never once in my entire life. You are quick to engage when you have numbers or are at some perceived advantage. And this site is not neutral; it's patronized mainly by white students.

Who wants to meet me in a live one on one debate, so we can find out who really knows what?

COWARDS! Weak...insecure...phony...sel f-entitled COWARDS.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Dr. Balsenschaft on April 27, 2009, 01:58:43 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

I am going to have so much fun creaming you arroggant phonies. Just like I did in undergrad...you are next.

See you in class or Moot Court.  ;)

This is funny because every time I see one of LawDog's posts my thoughts are, word for word: "What an arrogant phony!"

;)

No you don't. I am the star of this site and you know it. And my posts are dead-on. I notice you always attack ME and not my arguments...b/c you can't. You need to listen and learn.

And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.

As for you and your...GANG? It's just like it always has been, you can't fight your own battles, or any battle where you are on even footing. COWARDS. Cannot fight in neutral territory, cannot fight one on one, cannot fight someone of equal size, and the White men cannot fight other Black men. I'm not talking about physical warfare, I'm talking about ALL warfare. You are so brave to co-sign with other critics. Oh...such a big toughie!  :(

I have never had any White man engage me one on one and on neutral territory. Never once in my entire life. You are quick to engage when you have numbers or are at some perceived advantage. And this site is not neutral; it's patronized mainly by white students.

Who wants to meet me in a live one on one debate, so we can find out who really knows what?

COWARDS! Weak...insecure...phony...sel f-entitled COWARDS.

This is awesome.  If this isn't flame and this person is real, it's even awesomer. 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Scentless Apprentice on April 27, 2009, 02:03:17 PM

And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.
 

This is an anonymous message board on the internet. I'm not doubting or making light of any experience you've been through to give you the perspective that you have, but would just like to point out that, on this message board, if you're unliked, or 'ganged up on', its because of what you post, not what you look like, or anything to do with demographics.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Dr. Balsenschaft on April 27, 2009, 02:05:37 PM

And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.
 

This is an anonymous message board on the internet. I'm not doubting or making light of any experience you've been through to give you the perspective that you have, but would just like to point out that, on this message board, if you're unliked, or 'ganged up on', its because of what you post, not what you look like, or anything to do with demographics.


Racist.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: bl825 on April 27, 2009, 02:07:36 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

I am going to have so much fun creaming you arroggant phonies. Just like I did in undergrad...you are next.

See you in class or Moot Court.  ;)

This is funny because every time I see one of LawDog's posts my thoughts are, word for word: "What an arrogant phony!"

;)

No you don't. I am the star of this site and you know it. And my posts are dead-on. I notice you always attack ME and not my arguments...b/c you can't. You need to listen and learn.

And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.

As for you and your...GANG? It's just like it always has been, you can't fight your own battles, or any battle where you are on even footing. COWARDS. Cannot fight in neutral territory, cannot fight one on one, cannot fight someone of equal size, and the White men cannot fight other Black men. I'm not talking about physical warfare, I'm talking about ALL warfare. You are so brave to co-sign with other critics. Oh...such a big toughie!  :(

I have never had any White man engage me one on one and on neutral territory. Never once in my entire life. You are quick to engage when you have numbers or are at some perceived advantage. And this site is not neutral; it's patronized mainly by white students.

Who wants to meet me in a live one on one debate, so we can find out who really knows what?

COWARDS! Weak...insecure...phony...sel f-entitled COWARDS.

No one debates you because everybody on this board (and probably in real life) has concluded that even if you were resoundingly beaten, you wouldn't really notice and would continue to insist that you had won.

Plus it's entertaining when you throw your little tantrums.  Why do you think I keep prodding you?  :)
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Scentless Apprentice on April 27, 2009, 02:09:09 PM

And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.
 

This is an anonymous message board on the internet. I'm not doubting or making light of any experience you've been through to give you the perspective that you have, but would just like to point out that, on this message board, if you're unliked, or 'ganged up on', its because of what you post, not what you look like, or anything to do with demographics.


Racist.

 :o
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: UnbelievablyTired on April 27, 2009, 02:27:43 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

I am going to have so much fun creaming you arroggant phonies. Just like I did in undergrad...you are next.

See you in class or Moot Court.  ;)

This is funny because every time I see one of LawDog's posts my thoughts are, word for word: "What an arrogant phony!"

;)

No you don't. I am the star of this site and you know it. And my posts are dead-on. I notice you always attack ME and not my arguments...b/c you can't. You need to listen and learn.

And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.

As for you and your...GANG? It's just like it always has been, you can't fight your own battles, or any battle where you are on even footing. COWARDS. Cannot fight in neutral territory, cannot fight one on one, cannot fight someone of equal size, and the White men cannot fight other Black men. I'm not talking about physical warfare, I'm talking about ALL warfare. You are so brave to co-sign with other critics. Oh...such a big toughie!  :(

I have never had any White man engage me one on one and on neutral territory. Never once in my entire life. You are quick to engage when you have numbers or are at some perceived advantage. And this site is not neutral; it's patronized mainly by white students.

Who wants to meet me in a live one on one debate, so we can find out who really knows what?

COWARDS! Weak...insecure...phony...sel f-entitled COWARDS.

hahahahahahhaahahhahaha.  i feel bad for you. 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Matthies on April 27, 2009, 06:27:23 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

I am going to have so much fun creaming you arroggant phonies. Just like I did in undergrad...you are next.

See you in class or Moot Court.  ;)

This is funny because every time I see one of LawDog's posts my thoughts are, word for word: "What an arrogant phony!"

;)

No you don't. I am the star of this site and you know it. And my posts are dead-on. I notice you always attack ME and not my arguments...b/c you can't. You need to listen and learn.

And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.

As for you and your...GANG? It's just like it always has been, you can't fight your own battles, or any battle where you are on even footing. COWARDS. Cannot fight in neutral territory, cannot fight one on one, cannot fight someone of equal size, and the White men cannot fight other Black men. I'm not talking about physical warfare, I'm talking about ALL warfare. You are so brave to co-sign with other critics. Oh...such a big toughie!  :(

I have never had any White man engage me one on one and on neutral territory. Never once in my entire life. You are quick to engage when you have numbers or are at some perceived advantage. And this site is not neutral; it's patronized mainly by white students.

Who wants to meet me in a live one on one debate, so we can find out who really knows what?

COWARDS! Weak...insecure...phony...sel f-entitled COWARDS.

This is awesome.  If this isn't flame and this person is real, it's even awesomer. 

agreed, if it is flame its legendary flame at that
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Denny Shore on April 30, 2009, 04:08:39 PM
Shut up, LawDog.

Why couldn't you write a law school exam, Alfalfa?  Nervousness?  Inability to spot issues?  I don't entirely believe you.

I am going to have so much fun creaming you arroggant phonies. Just like I did in undergrad...you are next.

See you in class or Moot Court.  ;)

This is funny because every time I see one of LawDog's posts my thoughts are, word for word: "What an arrogant phony!"

;)



And there you go again...the gang. That's cowardly, really. All white people do is gang up on intelligent Black people in hopes that you will prove them inferior. And what bothers you about me is that you know you cannot shake me. That type of strength scares you b/c if YOU were in my situation, i.e., hated by many, you would have left a long time ago. You don't have the type of strength I have.



Lawdog is black?  Who knew?
I find it a little disingenuous when people get upset and cry racism.  How would any of us know you were black unless you told us?
That said, it sounds like you might want to take a little LSD break.  It sure helped me.  If you feel ganged up on, it's either because you are or because you are too sensitive.
As a conservative minded centrist, I feel hated and reviled every time I criticize President Obama, which is especially irritating because I object to substantive matters and usually have to listen to someone say either "Give him a chance" or "What are you, a racist?" - neither of which make much sense to a pragmatist like me.
Here's an idea - in order for race relations to improve, you could spend less time thinking like a 'black man' and more time thinking like a human.
Just a suggestion.
Good luck, lawdog.  Believe it or not, I get it.
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: lawness on April 30, 2009, 05:44:14 PM
Why do you think this person feels the need to capitalize W in white?
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: lamronba on July 09, 2009, 04:06:36 PM
i'm of the same mind as the OP's.  i was getting more and more edgy reading this thread, thinking about things i'd need to do to prep for next year, and then out of NOWHERE i get hit in the face with lawdog's post.  i don't know if it's deliberate or not ("i am the star of this site and you know it" is so over the top it has to be deliberate), but either way, what a way to break up the tension! 
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: just Trev on July 14, 2009, 08:04:08 PM
i'm of the same mind as the OP's.  i was getting more and more edgy reading this thread, thinking about things i'd need to do to prep for next year, and then out of NOWHERE i get hit in the face with lawdog's post.  i don't know if it's deliberate or not ("i am the star of this site and you know it" is so over the top it has to be deliberate), but either way, what a way to break up the tension! 

blatant lawdog alt.

consider yourself outed...
Title: Re: How difficult can it really be... seriously?
Post by: Sheshe on July 18, 2009, 02:06:19 PM
1L: They scare you to death (so it will be mentally exhausting)
2L: They work you to death (so it will be physically AND mentally exhausting)
3L: They bore you to death (so it will be emotionally exhausting)

Or so I have heard...lol.

That said, I would think about Richard Montauk's suggestion: an LLM program. Do well and get a specialty; that might be a good way to recover. But I could be wrong. You also could look at cutting your chops the hard way, go work pro-bono for some local agency or non-profit.

I also know a guy who started out in the sales department at Microsoft and moved into the marketing department. Then, one day he approached HR with his desire to move into legal, and a spot opened up.

Another way is to look at Goldman Sachs's Legal and Management Controls Department. They hire people who aren't even lawyers yet to work in a legal setting. Maybe with your degree they will connect you with a good mentor and you can get into corporate law that way.

Defer on your loans and do some looking around. Entertainment Law is another way to go. Seek out the production companies, call and write Warner Bros. or Arista Records. Heck, write Bad Boy Records! Entertainment Law is more about WHO you know anyways, and in that area of law, they don't care as much about class rank or grades. It's more of a people business.

Do you have charisma and people skills? Can you schmooze a Beyonce' into signing a soft drink deal? That's what they care about. Make it happen man! You are a graduate from a top-tier law school...nobody can f_ck with you! Have that attitude.

Do some legwork on your own...you can still reach your goals. In fact, now you are in a great position b/c nobody controls you. You're free. No billable hours minimum, no cutthroat law office politics.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but you are three years ahead of most of the grads in your class, do you realize that? Most of them will either be out of a job in three years or looking to switch...and they'll be looking to design their own careers. You're already there, so take advantage of that.

Remember, when one door closes, another one opens. 

This is obviously a message of encouragement and support, which I thought was one of the main purposes of LSD.  What I can't understand is why someone would feel the need to attack  LAWDOG when she was simply offering a few kind words to someone who obviously needed them.  Though her message of racial superiority that soon followed was truly inappropriate, her original purpose for responding to this post was to help someone not to put them down....lets remember that.  That being said Shame on you OFFICIOUS INTERMEDDLER for being so ugly (*remembering my mother's words to me as a child* "shut up is UGLY")! And shame on you also LAWDOG for resorting to racist remarks!

LETS JUST PLAY NICE KIDS!!!! ;)