Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: ohioan on March 15, 2009, 09:26:16 PM

Title: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: ohioan on March 15, 2009, 09:26:16 PM
It seems my decision is coming down to where I want to work. The best ranked and most economical choice for me is Cincinnati, but DePaul has a much better IP program and better networking environment. In the end it may cost me $15,000 more per year to go to DePaul. With Cinci, I would have at least $45,000 less debt after three years, a good job prospect in the Cinci area, and reasonable salary, but with DePaul I would have at least $45,000 more debt, better IP training, better networking to help me get a job in a good legal market, and hopefully a reasonable salary. If we assume I am comfortable in either city for school and then work, is debt the only factor? How can I know if I would like working in Chicago better than Cincinnati?
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: Remarq on March 15, 2009, 10:09:27 PM
Have you visited both schools?
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: PravinLal on March 15, 2009, 10:13:31 PM
If you are happy working in Ohio, I say save the money.  It sounds like you could make up for the advantages of DePaul with work experience.  Cincinnati is the safer bet, so that's what I would advise.  If you want to invest that extra $ in your education, just be sure you know as much as possible about the job market in Chicago.  I know it's a big market, but DePaul has a lot of high calibre competition in Chicago.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: Ninja1 on March 16, 2009, 08:02:39 AM
Take Cincinnati. DePaul isn't worth an extra $45k.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: SamE397 on March 16, 2009, 10:41:54 AM
I wouldn't say that it's impossible to get a job in Cincinnati if you went to school at Depaul or vice versa but you should probably be prepared to stay wherever you go to school just because as it's been said on here probably a million times you never know what's going to happen once you're in school. Based on job placement statistics in the short term, Cinnci will actually give you slightly better job prospects but being in Chicago may give you more of a shot at upward mobility over the long term. 

FWIW I think it would probably be easier to relocate from Cinnci to Chicago than vice versa because of the schools' relative reputations but that's just my perception.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: just Trev on March 16, 2009, 10:52:03 AM
Take Cincinnati. DePaul isn't worth an extra $45k.

titcr
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: NMUZ on March 16, 2009, 11:00:22 AM
I don't think DePaul is worth the money it costs to go there period, but I would visit both schools, that is the best advice I can give.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: ohioan on March 16, 2009, 11:05:45 AM
Take Cincinnati. DePaul isn't worth an extra $45k.

titcr

what does "titcr" mean?
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: Scentless Apprentice on March 16, 2009, 11:37:06 AM
Take Cincinnati. DePaul isn't worth an extra $45k.

titcr

what does "titcr" mean?

This is the credited response
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: Ninja1 on March 16, 2009, 11:57:13 AM
Take Cincinnati. DePaul isn't worth an extra $45k.

titcr

what does "titcr" mean?

I brought the thunda.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: ohioan on March 16, 2009, 04:41:28 PM
Take Cincinnati. DePaul isn't worth an extra $45k.

titcr

what does "titcr" mean?

This is the credited response
LSAT humor? Great.  I'm still stuck. Practicing IP attorneys suggest the IP program does not matter and that debt is a huge factor, while some say that going to where networking and job opps are maximal is best...
On one hand I have Cincinnati which will cost me $29,000/yr but provides only the basic IP courses. The job opps, placement, and salary from UC are good and there is much less competition for those jobs, unlike in Chicago. Also, the 6 IP courses I would take (hard IP) are taught by practicing attorneys. On the other hand, at DePaul, having $15,000 in debt more per year, the IP coursework and writing is advanced, not to mention the many more job opps. But, I don't think the faculty are as strong as Cincinnati (based on scholarship). Between the two I am sure I would enjoy Chicago more, but one would also have to have the disposable income.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: Ninja1 on March 16, 2009, 05:21:59 PM
Take Cincinnati. DePaul isn't worth an extra $45k.

titcr

what does "titcr" mean?

This is the credited response
LSAT humor? Great.  I'm still stuck. Practicing IP attorneys suggest the IP program does not matter and that debt is a huge factor, while some say that going to where networking and job opps are maximal is best...
On one hand I have Cincinnati which will cost me $29,000/yr but provides only the basic IP courses. The job opps, placement, and salary from UC are good and there is much less competition for those jobs, unlike in Chicago. Also, the 6 IP courses I would take (hard IP) are taught by practicing attorneys. On the other hand, at DePaul, having $15,000 in debt more per year, the IP coursework and writing is advanced, not to mention the many more job opps. But, I don't think the faculty are as strong as Cincinnati (based on scholarship). Between the two I am sure I would enjoy Chicago more, but one would also have to have the disposable income.

Law school grading joke, actually.

It sounds like you'd prefer to go to DePaul.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: ohioan on March 16, 2009, 08:27:42 PM
That's just it, I don't have a preference. The pros and cons for each choice seem to equal out. I don't know which factor I should be giving more preference to.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: just Trev on March 17, 2009, 03:29:43 PM
in the end you must give overall preference to...

wait for it...

your fellow LSD'ers, and what we think.

now go to cincy.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: Matthies on March 17, 2009, 04:14:50 PM
For  most purposes these schools are regional to the cities they are in. So pick one you think you like practicing in after school and go for it. DePaul is in a large legal market meaning if done right thorough good networking from day one you can bypass most of the complications of having so many good schools in one city. Who you know often beats where you go.

Cinci is a smaller market and networking hard there could mean you will meet more people and not get lost in a Chicago sized bar.

Either way plan to start networking from 1L on with working lawyers and judges and you should be fine, both of these place best in thier cities, so trying to get out of state takes diffrent stratgey. 
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: contrarian on March 17, 2009, 06:05:21 PM
Actually accumulating $15,000 a year at 8% interest will leave you with $67,500 debt.  Better to know that now than find out in four years that you didn't factor in that 8%.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: PravinLal on March 17, 2009, 06:30:16 PM
Actually accumulating $15,000 a year at 8% interest will leave you with $67,500 debt.  Better to know that now than find out in four years that you didn't factor in that 8%.
Are you sure about that figure?
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: SamE397 on March 18, 2009, 09:28:16 AM
Actually accumulating $15,000 a year at 8% interest will leave you with $67,500 debt.  Better to know that now than find out in four years that you didn't factor in that 8%.
I don't how you calculated that number; it's only about 4k interest because you don't borrow the whole amount at the beginning of law school you borrow 15K each year for three years.

However, even if you borrowed all the extra cost at once the interest would still only be about 11.5k. 

Also, 8% interest on student loans sounds really high.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: PravinLal on March 18, 2009, 11:08:46 AM
Don't you typically borrow money per semester?  I almost suspect that would represent 4 years tuition, given the reference to 4 years in the post.  (4 years could also very legitimately include 1 year until law school.)  It is wise to take account of interst, but that number seems unreasonably high.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: contrarian on March 18, 2009, 04:51:35 PM
Actually accumulating $15,000 a year at 8% interest will leave you with $67,500 debt.  Better to know that now than find out in four years that you didn't factor in that 8%.
Are you sure about that figure?

You're right, I was basing it on four years in school and $15,000/year.  It actually comes closer to $48,700 for three years.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: ohioan on March 18, 2009, 09:48:46 PM
Actually accumulating $15,000 a year at 8% interest will leave you with $67,500 debt.  Better to know that now than find out in four years that you didn't factor in that 8%.
Are you sure about that figure?

You're right, I was basing it on four years in school and $15,000/year.  It actually comes closer to $48,700 for three years.

Why would you base it on four years...you know I am talking full time....hmmm...wonder if this is more of his ploy to convince me not to go to DePaul.  I am having a very tough time with this decision. Now Seton Hall just sent me a letter indicating I have earned a $10,000 scholarship there. Am planning to reject though since the cost would be even more than DePaul and in a market that has much more competition. I just feel like I might be "happier" at DePaul than Cinci.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: Matthies on March 19, 2009, 08:06:38 AM
Actually accumulating $15,000 a year at 8% interest will leave you with $67,500 debt.  Better to know that now than find out in four years that you didn't factor in that 8%.
Are you sure about that figure?

You're right, I was basing it on four years in school and $15,000/year.  It actually comes closer to $48,700 for three years.

I just feel like I might be "happier" at DePaul than Cinci.

Being happy where you go to school is extreemly important, LS can royal suck at times, if you don't like where you are it just makes it worse. Although Cini is a fun, but smaller town.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: contrarian on March 20, 2009, 04:33:54 PM

Why would you base it on four years...you know I am talking full time....hmmm...wonder if this is more of his ploy to convince me not to go to DePaul. 

Naaa, this is a classic case where you shouldn't attribute malice where stupidity suffices.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: ohioan on March 20, 2009, 07:51:51 PM

Why would you base it on four years...you know I am talking full time....hmmm...wonder if this is more of his ploy to convince me not to go to DePaul. 

Naaa, this is a classic case where you shouldn't attribute malice where stupidity suffices.

I was hoping DePaul would improve their offer of admission, but they said no. So, either I go to a bigger, better, and much more expensive legal market of Chicago or to a smaller and more affordable Cincinnati.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: mantypants on March 20, 2009, 08:17:29 PM
Just from reading these posts, it sounds to me that you are trying to justify spending the money going to depaul. Maybe it is your subconscious telling you to go there.

If you were completely neutral, go to cinci, network beginning 1L, find internships that will give you the advanced training that you think you'd get at depaul. Maybe find a mentor in IP around cinci early on.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: ohioan on March 21, 2009, 09:19:13 AM
Just from reading these posts, it sounds to me that you are trying to justify spending the money going to depaul. Maybe it is your subconscious telling you to go there.

If you were completely neutral, go to cinci, network beginning 1L, find internships that will give you the advanced training that you think you'd get at depaul. Maybe find a mentor in IP around cinci early on.

It could be, but I try to rely on the facts:
DePaul has a much stronger IP program which includes more advanced coursework, IP legal writing, IP externship opportunities, IP events (networking), IP Alumni, a higher employment at graduation, and an aesthetically pleasing atmoshphere. The downsides are cost (it will be $15,000 more per year with $25,000 in Grad Plus loans), and, since my wife and I abhor the old apartments in the city, would mean that we live in the suburbs and I commute every day by train. It's not too bad, but students who do it tell me that it becomes tiresome very quickly.

Cincinnati has a simpler living environment, quick and easy access to school. The main advantage is the cost (only $29,000/yr of which $8,500 would be on Grad Plus loans), and minimal competition. There are several IP firms in the area and since there are relatively fewer IP students, externship opportunities are all but a given. The atmosphere is more intimate all around. However, the environment is not so pleasing as it is very near a bad part of town.

In truth, DePaul feels like the better choice, but in a worse case scenario of not finding employment upon graduation, Cinci is the better option due to low debt, less competition for jobs, albeit a lesser number of jobs to begin with.

Based on the faculty I have interacted with at both schools, I find those at DePaul more supportive and helpful than those at Cincinnati. The students at DePaul were also much more enthusiastic about what they were doing. At Cincinnati, many of the students seemed downright miserable.

I would agree that I am leaning towards DePaul, but no, I am not trying to justify the additional cost. Six months ago, I would have thought debating between Cincinnati and DePaul to be easy, Cincinnati wins. But, the employment climates in both areas combined with the debt factor make this tough. It would be helpful if someone could point out something that I have not taken into account.
Title: Re: selecting a school means knowing where you want to work?
Post by: Matthies on March 21, 2009, 09:50:19 AM
Just from reading these posts, it sounds to me that you are trying to justify spending the money going to depaul. Maybe it is your subconscious telling you to go there.

If you were completely neutral, go to cinci, network beginning 1L, find internships that will give you the advanced training that you think you'd get at depaul. Maybe find a mentor in IP around cinci early on.

It could be, but I try to rely on the facts:
DePaul has a much stronger IP program which includes more advanced coursework, IP legal writing, IP externship opportunities, IP events (networking), IP Alumni, a higher employment at graduation, and an aesthetically pleasing atmoshphere. The downsides are cost (it will be $15,000 more per year with $25,000 in Grad Plus loans), and, since my wife and I abhor the old apartments in the city, would mean that we live in the suburbs and I commute every day by train. It's not too bad, but students who do it tell me that it becomes tiresome very quickly.

Cincinnati has a simpler living environment, quick and easy access to school. The main advantage is the cost (only $29,000/yr of which $8,500 would be on Grad Plus loans), and minimal competition. There are several IP firms in the area and since there are relatively fewer IP students, externship opportunities are all but a given. The atmosphere is more intimate all around. However, the environment is not so pleasing as it is very near a bad part of town.

In truth, DePaul feels like the better choice, but in a worse case scenario of not finding employment upon graduation, Cinci is the better option due to low debt, less competition for jobs, albeit a lesser number of jobs to begin with.

Based on the faculty I have interacted with at both schools, I find those at DePaul more supportive and helpful than those at Cincinnati. The students at DePaul were also much more enthusiastic about what they were doing. At Cincinnati, many of the students seemed downright miserable.

I would agree that I am leaning towards DePaul, but no, I am not trying to justify the additional cost. Six months ago, I would have thought debating between Cincinnati and DePaul to be easy, Cincinnati wins. But, the employment climates in both areas combined with the debt factor make this tough. It would be helpful if someone could point out something that I have not taken into account.

Does Depaul have a part-time program? Maybe after 1L you could switch to PT and work PT as a cleark at an IP firm, thus getting experince, contatcts and using your income to defer cost.