Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: AgreeToDisagree on January 01, 2009, 02:33:52 PM

Title: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 01, 2009, 02:33:52 PM
"I visited North Carolina Central Law last week. It's a tier-four HBC in Durham, NC. (I live in the area, and am applying to other schools in the area.) I am looking at NCCU primarily for minority status." -Taft52



  I am soo tired of white people's neurotic necessity to apply to HBCU's in some ignoramus attempt at "minority status." The reason it is characterized as an Historically Black College or University is because not too long ago in America, black people were barred from obtaining a legal profession due to the majority communities xenophobic,racist, supremist mentality. Subsequently, blacks had no choice but to open HBCU's fueled by dogged strength, by the desire to be educated, despite the racist status-quo. There are many qualified black people who could be there attaining a quality legal education in lieu of individuals like yourself who are looking at NCCU primarily for minority status. I guess it's another illustration of blacksploitation, only this time you don't want diamonds, natural resourced or slave labor.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_9_20/ai_104521280?tag=content;col1


I'm not sure if any even care to integrate their brain with the Ada Lois Sipuel case (I'm sure some of you would rather just turn the blind eye and deaf ear, pretend to yourself that facts such as these are not, and have never been important). Her case is one of the principle reasons why HBCU's were created. Also, she wasn't trying to attend OU School of Law in an attempt at "minority status" but rather to gain a quality legal education. See the difference? And please believe, the chair that was marked "colored" separated from the white students in the class, was separated with barbed wire.


http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1921/Ada_Lois_Sipuel_Fisher_an_Oklahoma_legend

"The daily life of the Negro is still lived in the basement of the Great Society. He is still at the bottom despite the few who have penetrated to slightly higher levels. Even where the door has been forced partially open, mobility for the Negro is still sharply restricted. There is often no bottom at which to start, and when there is, there almost always no room at the top."-Dr.Martin Luther King,Jr.



Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: vap on January 01, 2009, 06:02:02 PM
Quote
I prefer HBCU's not by virtue of any ulterior motives, but because I want to be taught by black professors and be around black people. That does not make me a racist.

No, you're racist because you generalize negative personality characteristics about white people that aren't true, and you use individual examples to extrapolate to the entire group. 




Ohh ok! I agree with you! I agree with you 100% Matter of fact, racism has never existed in America, it doesn't exist now, just pardon my off-base extrapolation. Racism is just a figment of my imagination, just a real as the Boogie Man or say, Santa Claus. Forgive me.

I am officially confused.  Officially.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on January 01, 2009, 11:33:55 PM
I am officially confused.  Officially.

That makes two of us, vap.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 02, 2009, 03:07:22 AM
"Yet what I suppose what seems to us confusion is not confusion, but the form of forms, the serpent's tail stuck down the serpent's throat..."
-Robert Frost
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Thistle on January 02, 2009, 07:44:55 AM
and the op changed his name  :D



eta:  did taft52 ever indicate that he was white?  anywhere?  or was that simply assumed?
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 02, 2009, 07:57:17 AM
Why recap when you can leave the posts up? Furthermore both sides of the argument should be able to be viewed.

Wow personal attacks right and left. Maybe that is all you have been reduced to. I'm starting to question what type of substances your "nose" abuses. I mean you've made so-called points, why do you feel so compelled to enter this thread and manifest your inner beliefs about black people?

p.s. don't expect me to dignify your ignorance with responses in furtherance. I suggest you find somthing better to do with your time(perhaps find a front lawn to burn a cross on).
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Thistle on January 02, 2009, 10:47:32 AM
but wouldnt a urm bump still be applicable to a hbc application?  isnt that a federal requirement? dont know the answer to that one.  but from taft52's original post, nowhere does he explicitly SAY this. 

before making such an accusation, even if logical, i think it would be appropriate to do a bit more research. 

jsia
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on January 02, 2009, 05:10:00 PM
I can see I didn't miss much.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Thistle on January 02, 2009, 08:46:26 PM
I can see I didn't miss much.


lol was there anything here to begin with?   :D
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on January 02, 2009, 10:16:24 PM
I can see I didn't miss much.


lol was there anything here to begin with?   :D

The evidence of substantial deletion lent it an air of mystery. :D
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 03, 2009, 04:12:19 AM
I can see I didn't miss much.


lol was there anything here to begin with?   :D

The evidence of substantial deletion lent it an air of mystery. :D

Many people shared, and still continue to share a similar derisive sentiment as you two above, concerning Barack Obama as a serious candidate:
"You say some great things, and you're very entertaining, but it's too bad that you're Black and that the world will never really take you seriously."

i.e. the incessant assaults on black intelligence, beauty, character, and possibility.

So continue on (Miss P, Tasha) with the futile attempt to eliminate deserved credit, and trivialize. I'm not surprised, after all you two are simply playing to the script." :D"

 
 
 
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 03, 2009, 05:19:57 AM
"Being a Negro in America is not a comfortable existence. It means being a part of the company of the bruised, the battered, the scarred, and the defeated. Being a Negro in America means trying to smile when you want to cry. It means trying to hold on to a physical life amid psychological death. It means the pain of watching your children with clouds of inferiority in their mental skies. It means having your legs cut off, and then being condemned for being a cripple. It means seing your mother and father spiritually murdered by the slings and arrows of daily exploitation, and then being hated for being an orphan. Being a Negro in America means listening to suburban politicians talk eloquently against open housing while arguing in the same breath that they are not racists. It means being harried by day and haunted by night by a nagging sense of nobodiness and constantly fighting to be saved from the poison of bitterness. It means the ache and anguish of living in so many situations where hopes unborn have died."
-Dr.Martin Luther King,Jr.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Thistle on January 03, 2009, 06:58:36 AM
I can see I didn't miss much.


lol was there anything here to begin with?   :D

The evidence of substantial deletion lent it an air of mystery. :D

Many people shared, and still continue to share a similar derisive sentiment as you two above, concerning Barack Obama as a serious candidate:
"You say some great things, and you're very entertaining, but it's too bad that you're Black and that the world will never really take you seriously."

i.e. the incessant assaults on black intelligence, beauty, character, and possibility.

So continue on (Miss P, Tasha) with the futile attempt to eliminate deserved credit, and trivialize. I'm not surprised, after all you two are simply playing to the script." :D"

 



bluewarrior?  is that you  :D
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on January 03, 2009, 10:35:40 AM
I can see I didn't miss much.


lol was there anything here to begin with?   :D

The evidence of substantial deletion lent it an air of mystery. :D

Many people shared, and still continue to share a similar derisive sentiment as you two above, concerning Barack Obama as a serious candidate:
"You say some great things, and you're very entertaining, but it's too bad that you're Black and that the world will never really take you seriously."

i.e. the incessant assaults on black intelligence, beauty, character, and possibility.

So continue on (Miss P, Tasha) with the futile attempt to eliminate deserved credit, and trivialize. I'm not surprised, after all you two are simply playing to the script." :D"

:D  You're having some reading comp problems.  I was referring to the fact that when I arrived in the thread your whole discussion had been deleted, with one random exchange quoted.  FWIW, I pretty much agree with you about white people at HBCUs, regardless of whether you're flame.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on January 03, 2009, 11:21:27 AM
Quote
FWIW, I pretty much agree with you about white people at HBCUs, regardless of whether you're flame.

Are you serious?  A good number of HBCUs are state-sponsored schools, receiving almost all of their funding from the taxpayers of the state (especially because, at least in my state, the HBCUs are not usually research institutions so they don't receive grants and do not have a record of strong alumni giving).  The purpose of a state school is to serve ALL of the people of the state.  They are sometimes the only public university in the geographic area and white people are just as entitled to go there as anyone else.  They're called HISTORICALLY black for a reason.  It's nice to pay homage to the history and unique culture, but they are not exclusively black schools. in fact, I'd argue that HBCUs (like any other school) benefits from diversity. 

Yes, I'm serious, though if your comments here are relevant then perhaps I misunderstood the thrust of the OP's argument (which is entirely possible given its presentation).  I thought s/he was objecting to white people attending HBCUs when they sought some sort of "minority advantage" (still not sure what this is) and not the schools' special programming and mission.  I also understand being concerned about HBCUs' becoming majority non-black given the extant educational disadvantages of black students at PWIs.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Thistle on January 03, 2009, 11:23:38 AM
Quote
FWIW, I pretty much agree with you about white people at HBCUs, regardless of whether you're flame.

Are you serious?  A good number of HBCUs are state-sponsored schools, receiving almost all of their funding from the taxpayers of the state (especially because, at least in my state, the HBCUs are not usually research institutions so they don't receive grants and do not have a record of strong alumni giving).  The purpose of a state school is to serve ALL of the people of the state.  They are sometimes the only public university in the geographic area and white people are just as entitled to go there as anyone else.  They're called HISTORICALLY black for a reason.  It's nice to pay homage to the history and unique culture, but they are not exclusively black schools. in fact, I'd argue that HBCUs (like any other school) benefits from diversity. 

Yes, I'm serious, though if your comments here are relevant then perhaps I misunderstood the thrust of the OP's argument (which is entirely possible given its presentation).  I thought s/he was objecting to white people attending HBCUs when they sought some sort of "minority advantage" (still not sure what this is) and not the schools' special programming and mission.  I also understand being concerned about HBCUs' becoming majority non-black given the extant educational disadvantages of black students at PWIs.


wait, do you mean at undergrad or grad level?  or is there even a distinction?
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on January 03, 2009, 11:25:13 AM
wait, do you mean at undergrad or grad level?  or is there even a distinction?

I wasn't making a distinction (though there might be one of which I am unaware).
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on January 03, 2009, 12:12:37 PM
Quote
I thought s/he was objecting to white people attending HBCUs when they sought some sort of "minority advantage" (still not sure what this is) and not the schools' special programming and mission.


Initially, but then there was a bunch of "don't take black people's spots if you're white" kind of crap. I don't think you have to go to a HBCU for the "schools' special programming and mission" to be morally in the clear on your motives.  Maybe you want a damn degree, pay your taxes, live in the geographic area, and want to go to school on the cheap. For example, if you lived in Durham. 

Also, I think the "white" boost at most HBCUs is largely myth anyway.  Aside from a few scholarships I've heard about.  So maybe it's not "pure" motives, but does it matter? 

Well, I wasn't around for that and have only your recap as a reference.  I'm sure you've faithfully tried to recreate it, but given the context, I'm going to base my responses on what I read from the OP myself. 

I think the point is that HBCUs have special programming and missions that are still relevant.  Regardless of why people want to attend, they should do their part to keep those aspects of the schools going.  I understand being resentful of non-black people who want to attend HBCUs but don't understand why they are important or who expect to get special treatment at HBCUs because of their "minority status."

I'm sure you're right that the " 'white' boost" is a myth (albeit one I've never even heard).  HBCUs should not have any sort of affirmative action programs for white students.  Indeed, I would argue that they should maintain affirmative action for black students so that they can experience the majority-black education that many of them seek when matriculating at HBCUs.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 03, 2009, 06:53:38 PM
"I think the point is that HBCUs have special programming and missions that are still relevant.  Regardless of why people want to attend, they should do their part to keep those aspects of the schools going.  I understand being resentful of non-black people who want to attend HBCUs but don't understand why they are important or who expect to get special treatment at HBCUs because of their "minority status."

I'm sure you're right that the " 'white' boost" is a myth (albeit one I've never even heard).  HBCUs should not have any sort of affirmative action programs for white students.  Indeed, I would argue that they should maintain affirmative action for black students so that they can experience the majority-black education that many of them seek when matriculating at HBCUs."
-Miss P

Miss P, I love you. Let's get married (black people jump the broom).
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: LawDog3 on January 06, 2009, 01:12:48 AM
...can't we all just get along? :)
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: LawDog3 on January 21, 2009, 02:04:15 AM
"I visited North Carolina Central Law last week. It's a tier-four HBC in Durham, NC. (I live in the area, and am applying to other schools in the area.) I am looking at NCCU primarily for minority status." -Taft52



  I am soo tired of white people's neurotic necessity to apply to HBCU's in some ignoramus attempt at "minority status." The reason it is characterized as an Historically Black College or University is because not too long ago in America, black people were barred from obtaining a legal profession due to the majority communities xenophobic,racist, supremist mentality. Subsequently, blacks had no choice but to open HBCU's fueled by dogged strength, by the desire to be educated, despite the racist status-quo. There are many qualified black people who could be there attaining a quality legal education in lieu of individuals like yourself who are looking at NCCU primarily for minority status. I guess it's another illustration of blacksploitation, only this time you don't want diamonds, natural resourced or slave labor.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_9_20/ai_104521280?tag=content;col1


I'm not sure if any even care to integrate their brain with the Ada Lois Sipuel case (I'm sure some of you would rather just turn the blind eye and deaf ear, pretend to yourself that facts such as these are not, and have never been important). Her case is one of the principle reasons why HBCU's were created. Also, she wasn't trying to attend OU School of Law in an attempt at "minority status" but rather to gain a quality legal education. See the difference? And please believe, the chair that was marked "colored" separated from the white students in the class, was separated with barbed wire.


http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1921/Ada_Lois_Sipuel_Fisher_an_Oklahoma_legend

"The daily life of the Negro is still lived in the basement of the Great Society. He is still at the bottom despite the few who have penetrated to slightly higher levels. Even where the door has been forced partially open, mobility for the Negro is still sharply restricted. There is often no bottom at which to start, and when there is, there almost always no room at the top."-Dr.Martin Luther King,Jr.

But we as blacks and people of color would be appalled if a white law school lamented a significant rise in Black students and proclaimed that something had to be done about it. It may be difficult to accept, but we must live as we ask others to live. HBCU's can serve their mission if we improve the conditions of our homes and schools. Black students must come prepared to compete...and if we are able to compete, we will be rewarded.

HBCU's will continue to serve the Black community. That more white students are being exposed to Black culture and Black students, thus, a richer diversity of experiences, is a GOOD thing. We should welcome them into our schools and not be afraid...as we have long been asking them to do for us. If we are going to progress into a more pluralistic society, we must continue to use our voices, strive for excellence, and lead by example.

LOL! Did I just write that idealistic psycho-babble?  :D :-[ :P ;D
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on January 23, 2009, 11:06:15 PM
I am white and I want to go to Howard, but I have real reasons:
1) I'm from Northern VA so I can avoid room and board costs by staying at home.
2) I love DC and there is no better place in the country to make connections as far as I'm concerned.
3) I'm likin' the average $130K+ starting salary for a graduate.
4) I've been around black people all of my life and I get along well with them AND
5) I love go-go, what y'all know about that?
 
I don't want minority status, I think that affirmative action is inherently racist. I'm more worried about not getting in BECAUSE of the fact that I'm white. So please don't assume that white people who want to go to HU "exploit" blacks.

-Byron
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 25, 2009, 12:37:22 AM
Since you're so gung-ho black people, I assume you, by your own volition, decided to attend Hampton University, since it's in VA (according to your 5-point manifesto concerning why you're a black person born in a white person's body).
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on January 26, 2009, 02:40:42 PM
I think a geography lesson may be in order. Look at a map and try to figure out how I could live in Northern VA and commute to Hampton smartass. And getting along with black people is a far cry from from being "a black person born in a white person's body."
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 31, 2009, 03:57:09 AM
Opps!! Byron..I beg your pardon...I seemed to have reasoned the same level of zeal that's motivating you to attend Howard (in spite of the umpteen law schools in D.C.) would be the same catalyst for your attending Hampton; considering you're an honorary black person, and "you love go-go" wtf that is.

 
I don't want minority status, I think that affirmative action is inherently racist.

Wow..affirmative action is inherently racist? Considering the dearth of black lawyers in America, you sound nonsensical. Affirmative action opens up doors for qualified minorities that would be otherwise closed. You're simply harboring an erronneous fear that affirmative action will somehow destroy opportunities for whites. What's inherently racist is the systematic discrimination by large coorperations, affirmative action is in place to help the minorities the inherent racists victimized, you simply don't want to extend the same ladders of opportunity to minorities that whites benifit from. Furthermore, I'm certain you wouldn't get along with black people for to much longer if you openly expressed that sentiment. Matter of fact, I revoke your so-called honorary black card, you can't even pretend to be black anymore. Clown.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: lollypotter on January 31, 2009, 05:17:54 AM
LOL

'Byron' probably likes hip hop and has dated a couple of black girls so clearly, he knows what we're about. I mean, the poor little white guy - they might not even let him into Howard!

a-hole. 
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: jimmyjohn on January 31, 2009, 06:02:09 AM
Nice racist thread.  Obviously racism is still alive and well on both sides.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 31, 2009, 07:29:54 AM
AgreetoDisagree, you may not like opposition to affirmative action, but viewing it as inherently racist is hardly nonsensical. There's a much more nuanced argument there that you didn't acknowledge; it's easier to build up a straw man, though, I'm sure. It's certainly open to debate but there is a reasonable argument that 1) affirmative action draws distinctions based on race, with a lower standard in favor of URMs; thus someone who would ordinarily be admitted is now denied because of their race and someone who would not ordinarily be admitted is now admitted because of their race, 2) that the lower expectations of African Americans actually fuels internalizations of inferiority and the achievement gap.  There is a very strong argument that AA is detrimental to race relations, the perception of the quality of URM grads, and can harm achievement of URMs by bringing AA students in who would be top students elsewhere to start, yet again, at the bottom of the barrel and have to work twice as hard to get ahead. You can surely disagree with these arguments, but you should probably at least give them a fair shake (and actually respond to them) before dismissing them as nonsensical. I can watch a superficial debate in a 90-second TV news segment; hopefully, we're a bit above that here. Anyway, not exactly an AA thread, but AgreetoDisagree doesn't exactly contribute enlightenment wherever he goes.

LawDog3, your comments were excellent on this thread. It's historically black; the number of white people matriculating won't take away the importance of that unique history and organizing mission. But HBCUs, particularly publicly-funded ones, must serve all the people of the state. A welcoming environment will improve the overall quality of the students, the public funding, and (I'd suggest) the education. One of the major arguments for affirmative action by schools like Michigan is the value of diversity of ethnicities and experiences; I'm not sure how that suddenly doesn't apply when we're talking about HBCUs. 
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on January 31, 2009, 12:05:58 PM
DrugsUpYourNose!- I think I'll let some time elapse before I respond to your comment; I'm afraid you'll transform into a coward once again and delete your statement. Incidentally, what are you doing on this thread again? I thought I told you to find a front lawn to burn a cross on.

You say LawDog3's comments were excellent, well, I'm sure you think Clarence Thomas and Micheal Steele are excellent as well.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 31, 2009, 12:31:58 PM
Ah, yes, you did go tell me to burn a cross on a lawn. I'm sure that will win everyone over to your side immediately; heaven forbid that you use the power of logic, facts, or anything other than personal attacks.

I delete all of my posts after a reasonable time has passed.  Or if I'm arguing with an idiot.

And I'm sure you were the guy throwing Oreo cookies at a successful black man who respectfully disagrees with you by having an R next to his name. Yeah, I actually have no problem with Clarence Thomas, Michael Steele, Obama, Harold Ford, Jr. Just as its possible for white people to intelligently disagree, I don't imagine that it's somehow unpossible! that two intelligent black people could disagree. 

Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on February 17, 2009, 03:20:50 PM
Stole Your Nose I appreciate your response, although I was not shocked that racist black people attacked me for my expressing my views on affirmative action. As you correctly pointed out, AA discriminates against one race (or sex) at the expense of another. Whether or not the race happens to be a minority or majority is completely irrelevant to the obvious fact that all forms of discrimination are wrong. AA is also somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If minorities continue to advocate special treatment and privileges for themselves, how will they ever view themselves or be viewed by society as whole as equal to the majority? AA also reflects poorly on schools who sacrifice better qualified students on the altar of political correctness. As far as the "systematic discrimination by large corporations" suffered by blacks that AgreetoDisagree alludes to, I would be interested to know which corporations he/she is referring to. Slavery is over, the civil rights movement was successful, and there isn't a country anywhere in the world where blacks have a better overall quality of life they have here in the USA. The notion of perpetual persecution is a tired one, it's time to move forward and identify yourself not as a member of a specific race, but as an American.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 18, 2009, 12:17:30 AM
Well Mr. Byron, if you would look up American in the dictionary it reads: Originally applied to the aboriginal inhabitants, but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America, and especially to the citizens of the United States. So what category do you fall into?

Moreover,I don't use society's or anyone else's lens to define my equality in comparison to the majority community. The fact that affirmitive was implemented bespeaks its necessity. Clarence Thomas denounces AA as well (like yourself). However, he wouldn't be where he is today without AA. He (like yourself) is the type to cross the bridge, then proceed to turn around and burn it. You talk about exclusively indentifying myself as an American, well, Mr.Byron, the only individuals who fall into that category are the Native Americans. If MLK and other civil rights leaders harbored a subscription to your whitewashed philosophy, black people would still be required by law to ride in the back of the bus and drink at the colored only water fountains. You suggest that it is time to move forward and develop historic amnesia, jettison the whole notion that racism doesn't exist, and just go along to get along. You are a disgrace, a boilerplate Uncle Tom. I feel sorry for you, and apologize for you on behalf of all black people and our plight.

Furthermore, I've am not a racist. I never implemented segregation, I've never lynched anyone, I've never describe a women's basketball team as "nappy-headed-hoes," I've never pulled over anyone for DWB, I never terrorized black neighborhoods by burning a cross, I've never called or thought to call a black person a n*gger, I've never decided to move out of a neighborhood because a few blacks have moved in, I've never paid a black person less money than a white person who performs the exact same job, I've never........................ ...
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on February 18, 2009, 05:51:40 AM
Ignoring all of the other crap in your argument, you misquoted Websters (it starts of with a more inclusive definition, from Dictionary.com, which you clearly use.  But if you look it up on MirriamWebsters.com it says "1  : an American Indian of North America or South America   2  : a native or inhabitant of North America or South America   3  : a citizen of the United States") and you ignored the American Heritage dictionary. I think Byron can fit into at least one or two of those definitions, thanks.

Don't misquote the damn dictionary to win an argument.  That won't work out so well for you in court. Judges and opposing counsel also have access to the internet.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Kohinoor on February 18, 2009, 08:56:42 AM
AgreeToDisagree, the second the discussion became uncomfortable, you went straight to cross-burnings and Uncle Toms to shut the discussion down. Was Byron silly for making the nonsensical comment about gogo? Yes. Did that justify you calling his post a "5-point manifesto concerning why you're a black person born in a white person's body" Not at all. If you don't feel equipped to carry yourself in a debate, simply don't initiate the debate. Your response here was unacceptable.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 18, 2009, 02:39:14 PM
Disclaimer: In my last post, I mistook Byron(white man, who thinks he identifies psychologically with a black man) for LawDog3 (Uncle Tom). I take full responsibility for this, I beg your pardons for confusing the two characters.

Stole Your Nose!: You claim I misquoted a dictionary definition. How am I misquoting the definition(I typed it verbatim)? Simply because I didn't include every dictionary under the sun does not mean the definition I used is invalid, or imaginary. Hell, I didn't write the definition, why are you lashing out at me? If anything, you should investigate who the responsible lexicographer is and proceed to lambaste him. You choose not to address the so-called "other crap" in the above argument because you choose to ignore it, you choose to see no evil, similar to previous whites who stood by idly as blacks were being killed and persecuted. Your type doesn't surprize me, actually you're playing to the script very well. Lastly Mr.Stole Your Nose!, spare me the lecture concerning courtroom strategy, or what type of electronic technology judges and opposing counsel have access to; you are no judge nor are you any type of counsel, perhaps you should engage in that type of commentary if and when you become qualified to do so.

Kohinoor: This discussion is in no way uncomfortable for me, I am in no way thin-skinned about what any supremist or racist has to say in this forum, as you and every American knows, you're entitled to your own opinion and belief. Furthermore Kohinoor, I did not label his manifesto exclusively because he decided to express some silly comment about gogo, tell you the truth, I didn't even know what he was referring to or talking about in that regard. However, Kohinoor, Byron also suggested that he fully understands what it means to be a black man in America, understands the plight of black people simply by having a few black acquaintances in his life, or loving the gogo. He suggests that he will automatically identify with the black students at Howard by virtue of this, which is completely erronneous. Kohinoor that's the principal reason why I said he is a white man who feels he's trapped in a black body. Lastly, you feel that my statement is unexceptable well....I'm sorry to disapoint you sir. As I mentioned above, we are all entited to our opinions and beliefs. If you're expecting an apology, don't hold your breath.

LawDog3: If you are not an Uncle Tom, then I stand corrected, and I rescind that particular statement about you.

Stole Your Nose!: You must have an obsession with me and whatever comment that I write. Everytime I make a comment you respond to it in nothing flat. Unequivocally hysterical. You're probley standing by waiting for me to post, thinking..... "I can't wait to negate that n*ggers arguments, write something!! Hurry!!!"
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: LawDog3 on February 18, 2009, 03:31:35 PM
Disclaimer: In my last post, I mistook Byron(white man, who thinks he identifies psychologically with a black man) for LawDog3 (Uncle Tom).

LawDog3: If you are not an Uncle Tom, then I stand corrected, and I rescind that particular statement about you.

I dare you to read ANY of my other posts and come back calling ME an Uncle ANYTHING!!! I irritate the hell out of the white students on this site! with all of my comments. I battle them more than anybody, and they will tell you that. Go to ANY of my comments. I am constantly puttin' it down for our people. Ask the whites on LSD who irritates them most out of the URM's, and my username will come up more than any...guaranteed. For you to call ME an Uncle Tom is akin to calling Michael Jordan a cripple.  :P :o >:( ;) 
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on February 18, 2009, 09:10:43 PM
 "Byron suggested that he fully understands what it means to be a black man in America, understands the plight of black people simply by having a few black acquaintances in his life." Wow, I guess you don't understand what libel is yet, but you'd be in hot water making a ridiculous statement like that in your professional life. I only said that I identify with black people in the sense that I grew up around them and understand the culture. The go-go comment was an inside joke that nobody outside of the DC area will understand (you obviously didn't go to Howard). Again you talk about the "plight" of black people. Which plight are you referring to exactly? Minorities are more protected than the majority nowadays and I think you know that, and your cross-burning reference is only off by a decade or five, but that's alright. As I stated, you refuse to live in the real world and you won't drop the notion of perpetual persecution. And it's interesting that you mention Imus' "nappy headed hoes" comment, while of course failing to realize that the network he broadcasted on is the same one that owns BET and MTV, bastions of the reinforcement of negative racial stereotypes (glorifying black-on-black violence and drug dealing, objectifying black women). You apparently take no issue with that fact, nor the fact that the black community is doing itself a greater disservice than any Klan member or racist employer could ever do to by the way they portray themselves in popular culture. But of course it's easier to play the victim and always blame whitey, isn't it? Slavery ended 150 years ago, there's no more Jim Crow, a mulatto is president for God's sake. Your grievances are outdated!
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Jamie Stringer on February 18, 2009, 09:21:58 PM
"Byron suggested that he fully understands what it means to be a black man in America, understands the plight of black people simply by having a few black acquaintances in his life." Wow, I guess you don't understand what libel is yet, but you'd be in hot water making a ridiculous statement like that in your professional life. I only said that I identify with black people in the sense that I grew up around them and understand the culture. The go-go comment was an inside joke that nobody outside of the DC area will understand (you obviously didn't go to Howard). Again you talk about the "plight" of black people. Which plight are you referring to exactly? Minorities are more protected than the majority nowadays and I think you know that, and your cross-burning reference is only off by a decade or five, but that's alright. As I stated, you refuse to live in the real world and you won't drop the notion of perpetual persecution. And it's interesting that you mention Imus' "nappy headed hoes" comment, while of course failing to realize that the network he broadcasted on is the same one that owns BET and MTV, bastions of the reinforcement of negative racial stereotypes (glorifying black-on-black violence and drug dealing, objectifying black women). You apparently take no issue with that fact, nor the fact that the black community is doing itself a greater disservice than any Klan member or racist employer could ever do to by the way they portray themselves in popular culture. But of course it's easier to play the victim and always blame whitey, isn't it? Slavery ended 150 years ago, there's no more Jim Crow, a mulatto is president for God's sake. Your grievances are outdated!

Mulatto?  Interesting word choice.  Also, can you explain the first bolded portion?

BTW, Obama's presidency means absolutely zero in trying to refute that there is still racism in America.  Additionally, cross burning isn't an outdated reference point either (unless 2008 is outdated): http://www.nypost.com/seven/11072008/news/regionalnews/o_cross_burning_137570.htm


Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 19, 2009, 03:38:50 PM
"But we as blacks and people of color would be appalled if a white law school lamented a significant rise in Black students and proclaimed that something had to be done about it. It may be difficult to accept, but we must live as we ask others to live. HBCU's can serve their mission if we improve the conditions of our homes and schools. Black students must come prepared to compete...and if we are able to compete, we will be rewarded.

HBCU's will continue to serve the Black community. That more white students are being exposed to Black culture and Black students, thus, a richer diversity of experiences, is a GOOD thing. We should welcome them into our schools and not be afraid...as we have long been asking them to do for us. If we are going to progress into a more pluralistic society, we must continue to use our voices, strive for excellence, and lead by example.

LOL! Did I just write that idealistic psycho-babble?     
"

LawDog: What is written above is the principle reason behind why the blip on the Uncle Tom radar appeared. The above seemed sort of Uncle Tomesque. Futhermore, I wrote....If you are not an Uncle Tom......the key word is if. Sorry to upset you brotha'.

Byron: You foolish white man. Claiming libel? If you grow up around a group of people, wouldn't those people be considered acquaintances? I guess not. Furthermore I used the term suggessted, I didn't quote you verbatim,you used tangential language, I simply sliced through your attempted charade.
Minorities are more protected than the majority nowadays Yes, you could be right..I mean just ask any grand wizard. Matter of fact, a grand wizard used that exact same line in the film A Time To Kill. Perhaps if you wind up at Howard, or encounter the black people that you claim to have grown up around, perhaps you should express that sentiment, and discover for yourself what water's temperature you find yourself in.
 Mr. Byron, bless your heart... the network that Imus broadcasted on is not responsible for what inexplicable racial slurs come out of his mouth no more than the golf channel where kelly tillman uttered racists remarks about Tiger Woods ("lynch him in the back alley"). Moreover, I suppose there's no bat-eating, satanic rock stars on MTV, or any star by the name of Marilyn Manson who MTV and VH1 choose to air. Once again, Byron, you are not black, you never will be, no matter how many black people you claim to know, you have never been in the trenches with the black community, so when I comes to speaking about the black commmunity and "identifying" you should be quiet.
You simply want to pretend that racism is fiction; I'd consider it a bonus if you didn't think the scurrilous New York Post cartoon's (by Sean Delonas) dipiction of President Obama as a bullet-filled chimpanzee to be racist, and this occured yesterday, don't speak about racism being outdated. The more you speak, the more you reveal that your heart is imbued with racism, no matter how much you try to obfuscate.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 19, 2009, 04:01:56 PM
Whitney,

Thank you for the cross burning link. Completely repugnant, however, I'm not surprised.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: LawDog3 on February 19, 2009, 07:38:12 PM
"But we as blacks and people of color would be appalled if a white law school lamented a significant rise in Black students and proclaimed that something had to be done about it. It may be difficult to accept, but we must live as we ask others to live. HBCU's can serve their mission if we improve the conditions of our homes and schools. Black students must come prepared to compete...and if we are able to compete, we will be rewarded.

HBCU's will continue to serve the Black community. That more white students are being exposed to Black culture and Black students, thus, a richer diversity of experiences, is a GOOD thing. We should welcome them into our schools and not be afraid...as we have long been asking them to do for us. If we are going to progress into a more pluralistic society, we must continue to use our voices, strive for excellence, and lead by example.

LOL! Did I just write that idealistic psycho-babble?     
"

LawDog: What is written above is the principle reason behind why the blip on the Uncle Tom radar appeared. The above seemed sort of Uncle Tomesque. Futhermore, I wrote....If you are not an Uncle Tom......the key word is if. Sorry to upset you brotha'.

Byron: You foolish white man. Claiming libel? If you grow up around a group of people, wouldn't those people be considered acquaintances? I guess not. Furthermore I used the term suggessted, I didn't quote you verbatim,you used tangential language, I simply sliced through your attempted charade.
Minorities are more protected than the majority nowadays Yes, you could be right..I mean just ask any grand wizard. Matter of fact, a grand wizard used that exact same line in the film A Time To Kill. Perhaps if you wind up at Howard, or encounter the black people that you claim to have grown up around, perhaps you should express that sentiment, and discover for yourself what water's temperature you find yourself in.
 Mr. Byron, bless your heart... the network that Imus broadcasted on is not responsible for what inexplicable racial slurs come out of his mouth no more than the golf channel where kelly tillman uttered racists remarks about Tiger Woods ("lynch him in the back alley"). Moreover, I suppose there's no bat-eating, satanic rock stars on MTV, or any star by the name of Marilyn Manson who MTV and VH1 choose to air. Once again, Byron, you are not black, you never will be, no matter how many black people you claim to know, you have never been in the trenches with the black community, so when I comes to speaking about the black commmunity and "identifying" you should be quiet.
You simply want to pretend that racism is fiction; I'd consider it a bonus if you didn't think the scurrilous New York Post cartoon's (by Sean Delonas) dipiction of President Obama as a bullet-filled chimpanzee to be racist, and this occured yesterday, don't speak about racism being outdated. The more you speak, the more you reveal that your heart is imbued with racism, no matter how much you try to obfuscate.

There is absolutely nothing UT-ish about

1) playing devil's advocate and seeing multiple sides of an issue (something law students, lawyers and judges should ALWAYS do) and

2) checking OURSELVES on the race issue. Was I wrong to point out that we would get upset if a White person said those things? NO, I wasn't. And I was 100% correct. I would love to hear the Black students on this site react to a White Harvard or Penn Law student who says there are "too many Blacks getting in". First, it would be a gross overstatement of the numbers and a lie; secondly, it would show racism.

If I pointed out that Blacks shouldn't use the N'Word and get mad at Whites for using it - an argument you have heard many prominent Blacks, such as Al Sharpton, make - that wouldn't be "Uncle-Tomesque", either.

I am against hypocrisy, no matter who or where it comes from. And, surely, a person who laments a rise in White HBCU students is a hypocrite.

It is flat-out hypocritical for Blacks to argue that we deserve inclusion at historically "White" universities (particularly the elite ones), and argue FOR Affirmative Action (AA) policies at such schools, then turn around and have the nerve to be concerned that whites attend HBCU's.

 
The entire foundations behind AA are "diversity of ideas", "inclusion", "multiculturalism", "enfranchisement" and other notable buzz words.

Well, with all due respect, when a Black student laments the rise in White students at HBCU's, which, in an ideal world, would not exist in the first place, he/she undermines our argument that AA is NOT about getting a free pass. If I'm White and listening to a Black student tell people Blacks have something to fear in this so-called rise in attendance, I then say to myself, "See, Blacks don't even believe in the multiculturism myth...so why should we?"

We should not be concerned about Whites attending HBCU's, when the educational experience they receive is going to be unlike any they have ever had, and make for a better understanding of Black history, culture, and religion.

Furthermore, if we lend credence to the argument that Whites should not be allowed to attend HBCU's, we should also lend credence to the idea that they shouldn't be allowed to take Afro-American Studies courses at White universities, or attend predominantly Black churches...or patronize Black barbershops and restaurants. In order to get into their world, they have to be included in ours, otherwise, we are no better than White racists are.

I mean, what are we saying here? If they are willing to attend our schools and take their education back to their communities, isn't that what we want? Wouldn't we rather have White HBCU graduates sitting across the hiring desk from us?

Think about it.

I am no Uncle Tom and I do not sound like one; like our new President, I am a pragmatist.     
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 19, 2009, 11:32:49 PM
I suppose it's safe to conclude that you and I don't agree on this particular subject. Furthermore, I'm not against white people attending HBCU's per se. I'm in opposition to some of their motives. Motives of individuals such as Taft52.

LawDog, you want to pretend to yourself that blacks and whites started out on equal footing. White people in America have been the oppressors. No white people were ever made to feel inferior because the color of their white skin (that no human has control of), no white people were expected, by law, to sit at the backs of buses, no white people were precluded, by law, from being part of the electorate, no white people were forced to attend separate but unequal schools, so don't talk about what a white Harvard or Penn law student would say if too many blacks were getting in, because considering America's history, a white student wouldn't be qualified to express that sentiment. No white people were promised fourty acres and a mule, you know why LawDog? Because they owned all of the land that is referred to as the U.S.A. and it was an exclusive fraternity.
Moreover, I would want the individual (who doesn't necessarily have to be white) across the hiring desk, to hire me (or anyone else) because of qualifications and merit, not because he/she is some HBCU alumnus. That's what I want LawDog, and frankly, thats what we want, and precisely what our forebears who sacrificed their lives envisaged.
Furthermore, the pragmatist President whom you choose to liken yourself to has explained in his book, The Audacity of Hope, how he fully understands and is fully conscious of racism, how it hasn't evaporated. The President describes (in the race chapter) how white privilege does exist, and how a white couple threw their car keys at him simply because he was a black man standing outside of an upscale restaurant. You on the other hand, would make an excuse for the white couple and delude yourself into thinking racism was in no way connected, and the key tossing was simply a misunderstanding.
You and this equal footing rhetoric, read this joke by Bill Cosby:

"Two white men were riding their horses in the desert wielding swords.
They were taking turns trying to slice the head of a black man, who was burried neck deep.
As one of the white horsemen tried to slice the black man, the black man somehow, managed to move his head.
Frustrated, exasperated, the white men on their horses shout, 'fight fair n*gger!!!'"
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on February 20, 2009, 03:20:59 PM
Gretchen: As I'm sure you noticed, I used "mulatto" on purpose to see who would complain about it first and to show how uptight political correctness makes people. Congratulations, you win. If you don't know the definition of the word, there are plenty of online dictionaries that can help you out with that. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that cross burnings never take place, only that they occur so rarely as to be a completely negligible statistic. When I say that the minorities are more protected than the majority, I am referring to the institution of affirmative action and groups like the SPLC and the ADL. Of course, if anyone formed a group to protect the rights of white people there would be a public furor. Also, try starting a "White Law Students" club or group and see how well that goes over. Do you see my point?

Agree: You completely missed my point on the Imus issue, which was that you complain when a racist comment by a washed up old fart that nobody listens to is headline news yet don't complain about how the same corporation is broadcasting videos that make black people look far worse than anything Imus or any other racist could say about them. What does Marilyn Manson have to do with anything? You are projecting your own racist views on me because you don't want to admit your own racism. You just proved your bigotry when you called me a foolish white man. Yet, although I never would do so, if I replied by calling you a "foolish black man" I could take a wild guess as to how that would turn out. You are clearly not in favor of an end to racism, you just advocate the kind of discrimination (affirmative action) that benefits your race. White racism and prejudice exists, I know that from living in the South, but it also works the other way around. If you look at the FBI's statistics on hate crimes, for example, you will see that a white person is 2.5 more times to be murdered by a black person than vice versa. It's also interesting to note that there were 2 million reported incidents of black on white general crime (which is not considered hate crime) and 1700 incidents of white on black "hate crime" in 2002. I'm sure you have an explanation regarding that which will blame whitey too. Also, what's your hangup with the KKK? You would think from all of your invocations of the group that we are living in 1870. Do some research, the FBI thoroughly infiltrated and subverted the KKK decades ago through their COINTELPRO projects (much as they did with racist black groups like the Black Panthers).
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on February 20, 2009, 03:29:18 PM
Gretchen: As I'm sure you noticed, I used "mulatto" on purpose to see who would complain about it first and to show how uptight political correctness makes people. Congratulations, you win. If you don't know the definition of the word, there are plenty of online dictionaries that can help you out with that. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that cross burnings never take place, only that they occur so rarely as to be a completely negligible statistic. When I say that the minorities are more protected than the majority, I am referring to the institution of affirmative action and groups like the SPLC and the ADL. Of course, if anyone formed a group to protect the rights of white people there would be a public furor. Also, try starting a "White Law Students" club or group and see how well that goes over. Do you see my point?

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/home.shtml

Also, SPLC?  Talk about your irrelevant historical artifacts.  Not that it bolsters your claim about minority institutions since Morris Dees and Joe Levin are as white as they come . . .

I don't really care about whether white people go to HBCUs as long as they don't dilute the schools' missions, but I don't think someone with your disrespect toward civil rights institutions and history would feel very comfortable at Howard. 
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: LawDog3 on February 20, 2009, 03:41:22 PM
I suppose it's safe to conclude that you and I don't agree on this particular subject. Furthermore, I'm not against white people attending HBCU's per se. I'm in opposition to some of their motives. Motives of individuals such as Taft52.

LawDog, you want to pretend to yourself that blacks and whites started out on equal footing. White people in America have been the oppressors. No white people were ever made to feel inferior because the color of their white skin (that no human has control of), no white people were expected, by law, to sit at the backs of buses, no white people were precluded, by law, from being part of the electorate, no white people were forced to attend separate but unequal schools, so don't talk about what a white Harvard or Penn law student would say if too many blacks were getting in, because considering America's history, a white student wouldn't be qualified to express that sentiment. No white people were promised fourty acres and a mule, you know why LawDog? Because they owned all of the land that is referred to as the U.S.A. and it was an exclusive fraternity.
Moreover, I would want the individual (who doesn't necessarily have to be white) across the hiring desk, to hire me (or anyone else) because of qualifications and merit, not because he/she is some HBCU alumnus. That's what I want LawDog, and frankly, thats what we want, and precisely what our forebears who sacrificed their lives envisaged.
Furthermore, the pragmatist President whom you choose to liken yourself to has explained in his book, The Audacity of Hope, how he fully understands and is fully conscious of racism, how it hasn't evaporated. The President describes (in the race chapter) how white privilege does exist, and how a white couple threw their car keys at him simply because he was a black man standing outside of an upscale restaurant. You on the other hand, would make an excuse for the white couple and delude yourself into thinking racism was in no way connected, and the key tossing was simply a misunderstanding.
You and this equal footing rhetoric, read this joke by Bill Cosby:

"Two white men were riding their horses in the desert wielding swords.
They were taking turns trying to slice the head of a black man, who was burried neck deep.
As one of the white horsemen tried to slice the black man, the black man somehow, managed to move his head.
Frustrated, exasperated, the white men on their horses shout, 'fight fair n*gger!!!'"


OK...I CALL YOUR BLUFF. YOU SHOW ME WHAT, IN ANY OF MY POSTS, INDICATES MY BELIEF THAT BLACKS AND WHITES HAVE EVER...AND I MEAN EVER...BEEN ON EQUAL FOOTING. I know better and nothing I write would ever indicate that.

Calling one of my own on being a hypocrite does not make me an Uncle Tom, and I believe Barack would say the same thing. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Hypocrisy is WRONG. And having a double-standard for HBCU's and White colleges is wrong. I am not saying that HBCU's should not continuew their mission of providing education for Black students and furthering the socioeconomic concerns of the Black communmity. I am not saing that HBCU's should not work to maintain our culture, because I believe the opposite: they should.

But think about the implications of that remark that poster made: "We need to be careful; HBCU's are admitting too many Whites." Do you hear that?

Man..you are preaching to the choir. I understand these issues. I also understand the danger in assuming that white schools don't discriminate, because they do. I know ALL of this...

I am ridin witcha, but you are clearly not comprehending what I am writing; you aren't pickin' up what I am puttin' down!

What I have said is, IMHO irrefutable. Think about the hypocrisy in the remarks...that's all I am saying.

I AM DOWN!!!!!! You don't have to preach these things to ME. 

I fight these White students on LSD and TLS every day...and I am usually ALONE when I do it...they gang up on me eight at a time and everything. Look at my other posts; until you do that, you are not allowed to use my name or address me anymore, because you would not say the things you are saying if you had done your research on me. 

It's kind of funny. I was known as kind of a Malcolm-X type among the White students at my university. They thought I was somewhat militant, and many were afraid to engage me in debates, b/c they KNEW I was going to roast them.

Peace.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 20, 2009, 03:44:43 PM
Gretchen: As I'm sure you noticed, I used "mulatto" on purpose to see who would complain about it first and to show how uptight political correctness makes people. Congratulations, you win. If you don't know the definition of the word, there are plenty of online dictionaries that can help you out with that. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that cross burnings never take place, only that they occur so rarely as to be a completely negligible statistic. When I say that the minorities are more protected than the majority, I am referring to the institution of affirmative action and groups like the SPLC and the ADL. Of course, if anyone formed a group to protect the rights of white people there would be a public furor. Also, try starting a "White Law Students" club or group and see how well that goes over. Do you see my point?

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/home.shtml

Also, SPLC?  Talk about your irrelevant historical artifacts.  Not that it bolsters your claim about minority institutions since Morris Dees and Joe Levin are as white as they come . . .

I don't really care about whether white people go to HBCUs as long as they don't dilute the schools' missions, but I don't think someone with your disrespect toward civil rights institutions and history would feel very comfortable at Howard. 

I fully snorted in the library. Second time in 15 minutes (first time was over that whole Acela Pillsbury thing on ATL).
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 20, 2009, 03:46:26 PM
Also, lawdog, do you see how exasperated you feel? That's what you inspire in others.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: LawDog3 on February 20, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
Also, lawdog, do you see how exasperated you feel? That's what you inspire in others.

I inspire exasperation in idiots. The guy I'm engaging with right now is exasperated...not me. He looks rather stupid right now. Just like the OTHERS you speak of. The fact is, I am intellectually superior to many...lucky for you mere mortals, I use my powers for good.  ;)
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 20, 2009, 04:33:29 PM
No, you seem pretty exasperated. The all caps, the bolding, the "I AM DOWN" followed by lord knows how many exclamation points (seven?), "For the absolute last time," etc.

Don't be disingenuous.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Jamie Stringer on February 20, 2009, 05:06:00 PM
Gretchen: As I'm sure you noticed, I used "mulatto" on purpose to see who would complain about it first and to show how uptight political correctness makes people. Congratulations, you win. If you don't know the definition of the word, there are plenty of online dictionaries that can help you out with that. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that cross burnings never take place, only that they occur so rarely as to be a completely negligible statistic. When I say that the minorities are more protected than the majority, I am referring to the institution of affirmative action and groups like the SPLC and the ADL. Of course, if anyone formed a group to protect the rights of white people there would be a public furor. Also, try starting a "White Law Students" club or group and see how well that goes over. Do you see my point?

:D :D :D

How dare the uppity negro female talk back, right?  As someone who would technically be considered mulatto per the strict definition, I am letting you know it's not an acceptable form of address.  If you choose to use it (and frankly, I don't buy your whole taunting PC bull), that's your prerogative, but you got called on using an offensive term, so at least own that *&^%.  For the record, I'm not of Asian ancestry, but I find it similarly offensive when people use the term "Oriental."  Just because it was socially acceptable at one point, it doesn't mean it continues to be so.

Also no, I don't see your point.  Social clubs != protection, so that whole diatribe about a white students affinity group is pointless.  What's more, there are plenty of affinity groups for people of various nationalities or ethnic backgrounds (Irish American groups, Italian American groups, etc).  No furor over those that I've seen.

....

Miss P, I fully LOL'd at your link :D

Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on February 20, 2009, 06:54:20 PM
The uppity negro female? First of all, I didn't know that you were black (the picture of the chick from Mean Girls doesn't really help your case in the assumption that I believed you were black), not that it would have made any difference to the way I responded to your post anyway. But is becoming abundantly clear that this kind of language just goes to show how deeply the mindset of perpetual persecution is ingrained in your psyche, even when said in jest. Guess what? I was born in the 1980's. I wasn't a slave driver, my ancestors came to this country in 1921 from Ireland. I guess that we didn't face any kind of discrimination either, right? And thanks for letting me know that "mulatto" isn't an acceptable term, which is the exact reason why I used it, to show that this silly political correctness has gone too far. Maybe we should go back in time and edit every speech given by black leaders who called themselves "negroes" too? And what exactly has changed that would make either of the words offensive now when they were perfectly acceptable thirty or forty years ago? How did words like "Oriental", "negro" and "mulatto" suddenly become offensive? I would really like to know why you feel that way. As a mulatta yourself, I'm surprised that you're not more understanding of my position. I've lived in Brazil, where people of mixed Portuguese/African ancestry proudly call themselves mulattos, and "white" Brazilians call them mulattos as well, without any tinge of racism or prejudice. I wonder what the difference is between here and there? Maybe it's because they are more worried about surviving day to day and don't have the luxury to go to law school (or any secondary school for that matter) and female dog about how bad they have it.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Jamie Stringer on February 20, 2009, 07:11:30 PM
The uppity negro female? First of all, I didn't know that you were black (the picture of the chick from Mean Girls doesn't really help your case in the assumption that I believed you were black), not that it would have made any difference to the way I responded to your post anyway. But is becoming abundantly clear that this kind of language just goes to show how deeply the mindset of perpetual persecution is ingrained in your psyche, even when said in jest. Guess what? I was born in the 1980's. I wasn't a slave driver, my ancestors came to this country in 1921 from Ireland. I guess that we didn't face any kind of discrimination either, right? And thanks for letting me know that "mulatto" isn't an acceptable term, which is the exact reason why I used it, to show that this silly political correctness has gone too far. Maybe we should go back in time and edit every speech given by black leaders who called themselves "negroes" too? And what exactly has changed that would make either of the words offensive now when they were perfectly acceptable thirty or forty years ago? How did words like "Oriental", "negro" and "mulatto" suddenly become offensive? I would really like to know why you feel that way. As a mulatta yourself, I'm surprised that you're not more understanding of my position. I've lived in Brazil, where people of mixed Portuguese/African ancestry proudly call themselves mulattos, and "white" Brazilians call them mulattos as well, without any tinge of racism or prejudice. I wonder what the difference is between here and there? Maybe it's because they are more worried about surviving day to day and don't have the luxury to go to law school (or any secondary school for that matter) and female dog about how bad they have it.

Of course, because as a biracial female, I should only have avatars and usernames of other African Americans so as to avoid confusion.  In any event, my comment was mostly to be sarcastic but also to point out that maybe you shouldn't be quick to claim that people are just being unnecessarily "politically correct" (which I'm not even sure why that's a pejorative, but I'll roll with it for now) without realizing that just possibly the term is offensive. 

Then again, perhaps your intent is to inflame because after you were advised that the word was in poor taste, you used it again but directed at me.  Normally that would be cause to cuss someone out, but I'll try to rise above it.  In any event, "Oriental" refers to things, not people. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulatto

The bolded is really just a poor argument altogether.  Because something was acceptable 30-40 years before in some parts of society (generally the majority), it doesn't mean it's OK or ever was OK.  I mean, you do realize that 40 years ago is still touching the civil rights movements of the 60s, right?  Times when people of color of various groups were routinely denied privileges afforded to majority populations?  I'm sure you're not saying that is right.

Your commentary about Brazil just shows how out of touch you are with different segments of the US. 

Given this conversation, I'm not sure why you'd want to go to an HBCU.  But good luck anyway.

Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 20, 2009, 07:35:40 PM
I would hope that if he went to a HBCU, he would get called out, and perhaps even beat up a few times. Ideally by the white people there that DO have their heads on straight, so he can't blame it on black people not understanding him.

Hell, I'd beat him up for that "mulatta" bull.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on February 20, 2009, 08:27:15 PM
Right... I'm the uncultured one? I should be beat up for saying "mulatto", yet no one can explain why the meaning of an inoffensive word has suddenly become offensive? So now the new fashion is to say "biracial", and, who knows, a generation from now saying "biracial" could be construed as being offensive too. And, yes, I was advised by my local KKK leaders that "mulatto" was in poor taste, how'd you know? The fact that I have lived in a country that has the largest black population in the entire world shows that I am unfamiliar with the "various segments" of the US? What does one thing have to do with the other? I have lived in the North, South, and West of the United States, I have also lived outside of the country in a place with a far greater black population than any other country in the world, but I am "out of touch". If only I had known that I could have just turned to Wikipedia for my answers to centuries-old questions! MLK and Malcolm referred to blacks as "negroes", but now "negro" is an offensive term, just as "mulatto" is, but nobody can explain WHY or HOW said terms became "offensive". I asked you why. When did the shift occur? Where, when, and how did inoffensive terms used by everyone suddenly become offensive? Do you have an actual answer, or will you just avoid the question by repeating that it wasn't OK then or now? Maybe you should go down to Brazil or any other Latin American country and explain to all of them that calling blacks "negro", which literally translates to "black", is offensive.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: LawDog3 on February 20, 2009, 08:29:34 PM
No, you seem pretty exasperated. The all caps, the bolding, the "I AM DOWN" followed by lord knows how many exclamation points (seven?), "For the absolute last time," etc.

Don't be disingenuous.

Ok. How about this...the guy obviously can't read or refuses to, and he can't comprehend simple logic...or he's a flame. But I really am not exasperated...I have little investment in whether the guy "gets it" or not, but I take some pleasure in pointing out how stupid some people look. That's not exasperation. Exasperation arises from a personal, emotional investment. The guy called ME of all people an "Uncle Tom", but nothing with me is personal on this site.

Anyways, be careful not to swing from his nuts...right now, you look like a swinger. 
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Jamie Stringer on February 20, 2009, 08:40:43 PM
Yeah, you could have turned to Wikipedia because it mentions that the term "mulatto" is endearing in some countries but offensive in others (the US).  Had you bothered to look at the etymology of the word, you'd have seen where the word mulatto comes from the Spanish word for mule -- as in mixed race people were animal-like.  The other link about the word negro talked about a lexicon shift in the US that happened in the late 1960s in worldwide classification of race and ethnicity.  My feeling is that it was eschewed as part of the Black Power movement.  But if you're seriously interested beyond the cursory Google search I did for you, pick up a f-ing book.  It's not my job to educate you. 

The idiotic comment I was talking about regarding Brazil and the US was the following:

Quote
Maybe it's because they are more worried about surviving day to day and don't have the luxury to go to law school (or any secondary school for that matter) and female dog about how bad they have it.

Seriously??  Yeah, we are all just bitching about how bad we have it here when in reality we are all pampered future law students  ::)^100 

In any event, I'm so done with this conversation.  You're either deliberately obtuse or just unfortunately so.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 20, 2009, 11:10:13 PM
I would hope that if he went to a HBCU, he would get called out, and perhaps even beat up a few times. Ideally by the white people there that DO have their heads on straight, so he can't blame it on black people not understanding him.

Hell, I'd beat him up for that "mulatta" bull.

Preeeach!!! Chuuuuchhh!!!! Tabernacle!!!!
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 20, 2009, 11:44:52 PM
No, you seem pretty exasperated. The all caps, the bolding, the "I AM DOWN" followed by lord knows how many exclamation points (seven?), "For the absolute last time," etc.

Don't be disingenuous.

Ok. How about this...the guy obviously can't read or refuses to, and he can't comprehend simple logic...or he's a flame. But I really am not exasperated...I have little investment in whether the guy "gets it" or not, but I take some pleasure in pointing out how stupid some people look. That's not exasperation. Exasperation arises from a personal, emotional investment. The guy called ME of all people an "Uncle Tom", but nothing with me is personal on this site.



Anyways, be careful not to swing from his nuts...right now, you look like a swinger. 

LawDog: You're right your points are beyond the scope of my mental thought process (I'm a mere mortal remember)? Also, Mr. LawDog, you did and do sound exasperated, internally I felt the same way. Using all caps frequently...I mean..as I read your post, I could visualize fumes radiating off your forehead. Also, why would you need to tell a black person or anyone "I AM DOWN!!" if you were secure inside your own skin that comment wouldn't be necessary. You're an Uncle Tom, you just don't know it yet. Perhaps five years from now, your nascent Uncle Tom behavior will reach it's full development (you're just in the embryo stage now).
Futhermore, I suppose anyone who does not subscribe to your fan club is considered to be my personal nut swinger. LawDog, don't help send the boilerplate disposition of angry black men into perpetuity. I mean, you're the self proclaimed President Obama clone, you never see him exasperated, you never saw fumes radiating off his forehead. Lastly, listen I'm not the enemy brotha', I don't know how I'm ever going to get that through to you. Dog, relax, step out side, get some fresh air, drink a glass of water, have a beer on me...goodness.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 21, 2009, 12:08:30 AM
I have also lived outside of the country in a place with a far greater black population than any other country in the world,

In that case, let me give you your black card back. My mistake.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on February 21, 2009, 02:28:53 AM
Either edit the civil rights' preachers' comments as being racist and discriminatory or spend a year overseas in a country where black people face real prejudice and discrimination. Learn how to speak Spanish or Portuguese. Even better, learn how to speak the language of the African tribes that fought against and captured members of rival  tribes and subsequently sold them to European slave drivers for arms. Then speak to me about racism and prejudice and the meaning of words. While you're at it, explain to me how your people have had it worse than the millions of Native Americans of this land who have been systematically slaughtered. The black card is pathetic.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 21, 2009, 05:12:32 AM
Either edit the civil rights' preachers' comments as being racist and discriminatory or spend a year overseas in a country where black people face real prejudice and discrimination. Learn how to speak Spanish or Portuguese. Even better, learn how to speak the language of the African tribes that fought against and captured members of rival  tribes and subsequently sold them to European slave drivers for arms. Then speak to me about racism and prejudice and the meaning of words. While you're at it, explain to me how your people have had it worse than the millions of Native Americans of this land who have been systematically slaughtered. The black card is pathetic.

You are, truly, phenomenally stupid.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on February 21, 2009, 06:54:02 AM
Byron's an idiot, but I can't believe that you guys are oh-so-worked up about the world mulatto (which actually is acceptable to many people and in many places, although I get why it ticked folks off), but not with the throwing the KKK around, telling me to get back to apparently my hobby of burning crosses, and imputing the n-word to others like it ain't no thing.  Come on; that's pretty shameful. The "I have black friends!" argument is pretty sad, but its clearly less outrageous than the "Give me my forty acres and a mule before you go put your white sheets on!" schpiel that the most offensive person on the board is spewing.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 21, 2009, 07:27:49 AM
I agree that it was out of line, but I don't find it personally offensive in the same way that calling MA "mulatta" is. I generally find that inappropriately accusing someone of being a racist is less offensive, objectively, than inappropriately being a racist (or throwing racist terms and ideas around for whatever reason).* In other words, I'm fairly immune to the charms of the race-card card. But I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt, and I do agree that it was inappropriate.

Just for the record, you're not defending a resident of the United States using the word mulatto knowingly/unironically and calling a peer "Mulatta," are you?

*Upon further reflection, the second use of the word "inappropriately" in this sentence is redundant, but I'll keep it for parallel-structure reasons.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on February 21, 2009, 07:44:20 AM
Wow.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 21, 2009, 08:08:02 AM
I wasn't being facetious. I don't know what you're Carolyn Hax-ing about.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on February 21, 2009, 08:15:20 AM
I get that you weren't being facetious; that's why the "wow."
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 21, 2009, 08:21:26 AM
It's not an uncommon opinion. Try googling "race card card."
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on February 21, 2009, 08:51:22 AM
I understand the concept. I am just shocked that you seem to support the AgreetoDisagree's mindless drivel and constant KKK references.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 21, 2009, 09:06:00 AM
I am just as shocked at your inability to read the multiple times where I expressly said I thought it was inappropriate and out of line.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Jamie Stringer on February 21, 2009, 01:46:14 PM
Either edit the civil rights' preachers' comments as being racist and discriminatory or spend a year overseas in a country where black people face real prejudice and discrimination. Learn how to speak Spanish or Portuguese. Even better, learn how to speak the language of the African tribes that fought against and captured members of rival  tribes and subsequently sold them to European slave drivers for arms. Then speak to me about racism and prejudice and the meaning of words. While you're at it, explain to me how your people have had it worse than the millions of Native Americans of this land who have been systematically slaughtered. The black card is pathetic.

You are, truly, phenomenally stupid.


+1000000000000


I understand the concept. I am just shocked that you seem to support the AgreetoDisagree's mindless drivel and constant KKK references.

Speaking just for myself, I don't agree with what AtD is saying at all.  The difference to me is that I think byron is serious in his stupidity, whereas I believe AtD is just trolling.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: Miss P on February 21, 2009, 03:28:14 PM
The black card is pathetic.

I suggest you share this with your numerous black friends.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on February 21, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
If having a black consciousness is synonymous with being a "troll" well, I'm guilty as charged.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: byron2008 on February 21, 2009, 10:14:51 PM
What is it that I said that any of you would classify as "stupid" exactly? And Gretchen you still refuse to answer my simple question of how certain terms have come to be offensive when they were not previously considered so. I think the obvious reason is that you don't have an answer or explanation, you just love to pretend like you're offended at anything that isn't PC.
Title: Re: White Attendance @ HBCU's (motives)
Post by: dashrashi on February 21, 2009, 10:17:19 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're not big on "context," as a general rule. I'm going to tread a little further and suggest that it, here (as in so many other places, times, and ways), is key.

And that's the absolute last time that I won't treat you like the noxious troll you are.