Law School Discussion

Law Students => Job Search => Topic started by: tortNretort on December 22, 2008, 02:40:31 PM

Title: ...
Post by: tortNretort on December 22, 2008, 02:40:31 PM
 ...
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: vap on December 22, 2008, 06:44:07 PM
Without the specifics you speak of, there's no way to tailor advice.

So, depending on where you want to work, just research online and send a cover letter with resume.

If money is important, apply to law firms.
If money is not particularly important, apply to places that interest you.


Law Firms

Typically Larger Sizes and Highest Paying: www.nalpdirectory.org (advanced search for those that hire 1Ls)
All Sizes: www.martindale.com
All Sizes: www.yellowpages.com

Government
Government Honors and Internship Handbook (contact your law school for password): http://www.law.arizona.edu/career/honorshandbook.cfm
Department of Justice:  http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/oppls.htm

Federal Courts
Biographical Information of Federal Judges: http://www.fjc.gov/public/home.nsf/hisj
Court Locations: http://www.uscourts.gov/courtlinks/
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 22, 2008, 07:41:32 PM
You're in law school and you have no idea what to do with your law degree?   :-\
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: vap on December 22, 2008, 09:31:23 PM
If I were you, I'd apply to DA offices, U.S. Attorney's Offices, and federal judges.  The DA office / USAO will be familiar and give you exposure to what you are leaning towards at the moment.  An internship with a judge will expose you to other areas of the law.

If you get the opportunity, you could split your summer.

So... "general first steps"
1) Identify the city/cities you would want to work in.
2) Google for contact information for DA, USAO, and judges in those cities.
3) Send cover letters and resumes to those offices.  Identify when you will be available for interviews.  Do it now.  No need to wait for grades.
4) Follow up with a phone call in 1-2 weeks.

Working for a judge will be best to "keep your options open," so as to not make a law firm next fall think you are "too" interested in criminal law (big firms typically do not hire law students to join criminal defense practices).  This should not really be a big factor in your 1L summer decision, though.

I think it's best to apply before you get grades.  Law school grades can be kind of random.  Er, at least, I never really knew how I did in a course until I received a grade.  Other people disagree on this, though.

Edit:  Good luck!
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 23, 2008, 07:18:53 AM
Is there a 1L job-search FAQ? A good place to start? Just a set of recommendations? Some thread everyone likes?

I have let it all go until today -- my first day free after exams! -- and now I don't know where to start. I can't really define 'what I want to do' with my law degree, but I have some ideas. I don't want to get into all the specifics unless people are willing to give advice directed at my personal situation. So, let me know, would you like to hear who-I-am and where-I'm-coming-from or tell me there's a better way for me to get started on my job search.

Please tell me I haven't left it too late! :)



You are seriously going to Tulane in this economy with your numbers?  You could likely get a full-ride to some T14 schools.....
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: vap on December 23, 2008, 07:27:16 AM
You are seriously going to Tulane in this economy with your numbers?  You could likely get a full-ride to some T14 schools.....

Is this a "where should I go" thread?
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 23, 2008, 07:43:06 AM
I had a question, I asked it.  Go F&#* yourself vap.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 23, 2008, 08:24:44 AM
It was a good question, too, IMO.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: vap on December 23, 2008, 10:14:06 AM
Stole Your Nose! has some good advice, especially about sending out adequate applications.  As a 1L, I sent out over 100 letters and got about 10 interviews.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: heartbreaker on December 23, 2008, 10:18:13 AM
Stole Your Nose! has some good advice, especially about sending out adequate applications.  As a 1L, I sent out over 100 letters and got about 10 interviews.

Wowza, seriously?
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 23, 2008, 10:21:56 AM
Stole Your Nose! has some good advice, especially about sending out adequate applications.  As a 1L, I sent out over 100 letters and got about 10 interviews.

It all depends on your school. I had 15 interviews and sent about half as many applications and ended up with several Biglaw offers.  It's all going to depend.

If you are at a T2, T3, etc.... it will obviously take more.  However, in today's economy, and with the ease of e-mail, why not send out as many as possible and maximize your chances?
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 23, 2008, 10:28:26 AM
I sent out three and landed two interviews.  It definitely depends on school, and, perhaps as importantly, market.

Honestly, I think you guys are being over-optimistic about this guy's chances of landing a big firm through NALP and such, at a T2, in this economy.  I would go for personal connections.  These firms get literally hundreds of resumes.  What special reason to they have to hire him?

What about targeting soft IP places?  You have a good copyright background, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: vap on December 23, 2008, 10:36:53 AM
You are seriously going to Tulane in this economy with your numbers?  You could likely get a full-ride to some T14 schools.....

Is this a "where should I go" thread?

I had a question, I asked it.  Go F&#* yourself vap.

It was a good question, too, IMO.

It was a pointless and rude question.  OP is a 1L at Tulane.  OP wasn't looking for people to criticize his/her school choice.  This is a thread about searching for 1L employment.  If you want to try and convince someone to go to one school over another, try here: http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/board,2.0.html
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: vap on December 23, 2008, 10:45:48 AM
Honestly, I think you guys are being over-optimistic about this guy's chances of landing a big firm through NALP and such, at a T2, in this economy.  I would go for personal connections.  These firms get literally hundreds of resumes.  What special reason to they have to hire him?

This is very true, IMO.  OP should not waste time on biglaw or NALP firms unless he/she gets stellar grades or a personal connection. 

I go to a T2, and only a few people (in the top 5% of the class) landed biglaw for 1L summer.

Another "pitfall" = wasting time on biglaw applications.  I spent many precious hours in November/December researching firms, visiting websites, and writing personalized cover letters to about 50 NALP firms.  Waste of time because I was not at T14.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 23, 2008, 10:54:00 AM
i have my doubts as to whether there will be much BIGLAW! 1L hiring at even the top schools this year.

Agreed.

I know at my firm they are done hiring.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 23, 2008, 11:54:02 AM
We'll see how happy you are with Tulane when your "hometown" lands you no jobs if you aren't in the top of your class.

That's the reality of the legal profession, whether you choose to see it or remain delusional is up to you.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 23, 2008, 12:29:56 PM
I am fairly worried about grades and getting invited back.  The firm that interviewed me, thus far, is a boutique, and everyone there was LR/top school.  I'm working my ass off to get as high up as possible.  In fact, I'm outlining right now, and I don't plan to go home for the break -- that's how desperate I am to do well IN THIS ECONOMY.

If the firm doesn't offer me, I'll probably be an RA and stay in Hyde Park this summer.  We'll see.

Again, my interviews were from firms in a very small, very niche secondary market.  I didn't even bother with the Kirklands and Skaddens of the world.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 23, 2008, 12:31:14 PM
We'll see how happy you are with Tulane when your "hometown" lands you no jobs if you aren't in the top of your class.

That's the reality of the legal profession, whether you choose to see it or remain delusional is up to you.

This is pretty harsh, but I don't know what you're responding to.  It seems like a d-dub.

To be fair,

The OP does have a lot of prior work experience and academia/publishing that might make him attractive despite his lower-ranked school.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 23, 2008, 12:32:32 PM
It won't matter much to a firm if his grades are average when he goes to a mid-level school.  I didn't say it was fair, it's just the way it is. 
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 23, 2008, 12:40:56 PM
Considering civil-law is pretty useless outside Louisiana and the reality that most large cases end up in federal court, you can't really justify Tulane over a top school no matter where you want to practice.

Regardless, enjoy that unpaid internship this summer.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 23, 2008, 02:07:23 PM
Considering civil-law is pretty useless outside Louisiana and the reality that most large cases end up in federal court, you can't really justify Tulane over a top school no matter where you want to practice.

Regardless, enjoy that unpaid internship this summer.

That's pretty harsh.  But I guess some animosity toward the OP may be justified for some reason.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: Thistle on December 23, 2008, 02:16:13 PM
Considering civil-law is pretty useless outside Louisiana and the reality that most large cases end up in federal court, you can't really justify Tulane over a top school no matter where you want to practice.

Regardless, enjoy that unpaid internship this summer.

That's pretty harsh.  But I guess some animosity toward the OP may be justified for some reason.


name one
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: Thistle on December 23, 2008, 03:45:40 PM
Considering civil-law is pretty useless outside Louisiana and the reality that most large cases end up in federal court, you can't really justify Tulane over a top school no matter where you want to practice.

Regardless, enjoy that unpaid internship this summer.

That's pretty harsh.  But I guess some animosity toward the OP may be justified for some reason.


name one

perhaps if tulane law school murdered TheDudeMan's father?



ooh ooh! i know!  tulane law school went back in time and murdered thedudeman's father!
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 24, 2008, 01:34:14 PM
I actually didn't start out by Tulane bashing.  I just asked an honest question regarding why someone with the OP's stats would go to Tulane.  It's a valid question.

It's not just the Vault 20 that are selective based on school in this economy.  Especially for a 1L.  It's highly unlikely that the OP will get a Bigfirm gig (or anything that pays well) as a first year coming out of Tulane. 

Even at higher ranked schools, landing a summer associate position isn't easy as a 1L.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: Diet Yomajesty on December 24, 2008, 10:07:26 PM
TnR, is your LSN data correct? DudeMan is fixated on your reported 174 and it appears to be clouding his responses.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 24, 2008, 10:37:26 PM
Funny how the question "I'm looking for a summer position" and the statement "I go to Tulane" can get squashed by certain idiots into "You can't have a BigLaw job because your school isn't prestigious enough" even if I mention "I'm not interested in a BigLaw job." People have serious issues with prestige / elitism on this board. Is there an "ignore" function?

Merry Dreidel ...

You suggested that you did want a BigLaw job, at least to see whether the myths are correct, IIRC.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 26, 2008, 11:11:37 AM
I really didn't think my question was a bad one.  I mean honestly, why would anyone with those numbers go to Tulane, it's a fair question.  It's reality that you could have gotten into a top school, and it's also reality that Tulane is Tulane and won't do much for you without top grades.

I just was curious.  Defensive much? 
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 26, 2008, 01:39:53 PM
I agree.  I mean, the OP is putting himself out there for advice, so why can't we ask him a question or two?  In fact, uncovering his motivations for Tulane could be extremely helpful in determining where he goes after graduation and this summer.  Was he a T14 prospect who went there because he couldn't leave NO?  Because he simply loves Civil Law?

These are apposite questions, but he shut us down.  You know what -- I don't even want to help him anymore.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: Thistle on December 26, 2008, 02:02:00 PM
what difference does it make WHY he went to tulane?  that isnt even the issue.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 26, 2008, 02:03:08 PM
what difference does it make WHY he went to tulane?  that isnt even the issue.

Yes, it is.  If he had a 174/3.6, like he dubiously claims, then it says a lot about him and where he wants to be.  We can use that information to help him.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: Thistle on December 26, 2008, 02:03:48 PM
what difference does it make WHY he went to tulane?  that isnt even the issue.

Yes, it is.  If he had a 174/3.6, like he dubiously claims, then it says a lot about him and where he wants to be.  We can use that information to help him.


no it doesnt lol
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: vap on December 26, 2008, 02:15:09 PM
what difference does it make WHY he went to tulane?  that isnt even the issue.

Yes, it is.  If he had a 174/3.6, like he dubiously claims, then it says a lot about him and where he wants to be.  We can use that information to help him.

TheDudeMan was not questioning whether OP had 174/3.6.  TheDudeMan was not asking OP why he chose to go to Tulane.  TheDudeMan asked:

You are seriously going to Tulane in this economy with your numbers?

The answer to this question is either "Yes, I go to Tulane" or "No, I do not go to Tulane."
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 26, 2008, 02:37:03 PM
Why is this so hard to understand?

Let's say I had a 4.0/180.  But I chose to go to GULC.  Doesn't this say a lot about me?  Doesn't it say, at the very least, that I might want to stay in DC?  Or that I'm not prestige-fixated?  Or that GULC has some specific program that I should keep in mind?

Exactly.  It says a lot.  Now, if we were to go into those reasons, I bet we would learn a lot about the person and their motivations.  In this case, someone with a 3.6/174 is going to a poorly-ranked law school.  We want to know why.  Is it because he had to stay in NO, which means that he's looking in on market?  Or because he wanted a full-ride, and wants to do PI?
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: Thistle on December 26, 2008, 02:40:51 PM
Why is this so hard to understand?

Let's say I had a 4.0/180.  But I chose to go to GULC.  Doesn't this say a lot about me?  Doesn't it say, at the very least, that I might want to stay in DC?  Or that I'm not prestige-fixated?  Or that GULC has some specific program that I should keep in mind?

Exactly.  It says a lot.  Now, if we were to go into those reasons, I bet we would learn a lot about the person and their motivations.  In this case, someone with a 3.6/174 is going to a poorly-ranked law school.  We want to know why.  Is it because he had to stay in NO, which means that he's looking in on market?  Or because he wanted a full-ride, and wants to do PI?


lol no it merely says you chose to go to gulc.  and who gives a *&^%, anyway?

to remind you of the op's question:  Is there a 1L job-search FAQ? A good place to start? Just a set of recommendations? Some thread everyone likes?

the credited response to that is either "yes, look here" or "no"  my guess is the op doesnt want or need to be psychoanalyzed -- he just wants an answer to his simple question

why is this so hard to understand  :D
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: vap on December 26, 2008, 03:04:19 PM
TheDudeMan was not questioning whether OP had 174/3.6.  TheDudeMan was not asking OP why he chose to go to Tulane. TheDudeMan asked:

You are seriously going to Tulane in this economy with your numbers?

The answer to this question is either "Yes, I go to Tulane" or "No, I do not go to Tulane."

Why is this so hard to understand?

Let's say I had a 4.0/180.  But I chose to go to GULC.  Doesn't this say a lot about me?  Doesn't it say, at the very least, that I might want to stay in DC?  Or that I'm not prestige-fixated?  Or that GULC has some specific program that I should keep in mind?

Exactly.  It says a lot.  Now, if we were to go into those reasons, I bet we would learn a lot about the person and their motivations.  In this case, someone with a 3.6/174 is going to a poorly-ranked law school.  We want to know why. Is it because he had to stay in NO, which means that he's looking in on market?  Or because he wanted a full-ride, and wants to do PI?

See bolded.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: TheDudeMan on December 29, 2008, 06:38:04 AM
There is no earthly reason why you need to know why the OP went to Tulane.  Tulane's a fine law school, and he could have decided to go there for family reasons or because of the school colors.  At this point it doesn't really matter.  The OP has given more than enough information about motivations/goals/etc.  Start your own thread if you want to do a "Your non-T6 school sucks!"

"Tulane is a fine school." 

Lies.
Title: Re: Is there a FAQ?
Post by: Thistle on December 29, 2008, 07:56:00 AM
There is no earthly reason why you need to know why the OP went to Tulane.  Tulane's a fine law school, and he could have decided to go there for family reasons or because of the school colors.  At this point it doesn't really matter.  The OP has given more than enough information about motivations/goals/etc.  Start your own thread if you want to do a "Your non-T6 school sucks!"

"Tulane thedudeman is a fine school reasonable person." 

Lies.



fixt