Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: Denny Shore on October 20, 2008, 08:01:37 PM

Title: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 20, 2008, 08:01:37 PM
Howdy,

I've been lurking for some time now and am pretty sure that this isn't going to be pretty.  I need some help and I'm hoping to get some here.  Be gentle.

When I was 19 or so, I was diagnosed with ADHD (maybe ADD, I wasn't paying attention).  I was placed on meds and had bad reactions to them.  Besides being somewhat opposed to the idea of medicating my problem, the drugs made my heart race and I found myself focusing too much on meaningless nonsense.  For example, during logic classes I'd focus on writing examples of common fallacy arguments and, inevitably, my teacher would ask me a question that would require that I had been listening to a word he'd said.

I stopped taking the meds and forced myself to concentrate.  The first few years of college were awful, but the last two were all A's and B's, and I was on the dean's list every semester.  When I got into law school, I was sure that I had figured out how to cope with the distraction and frustration that had made my education challenging.

While I was at law school, I thought I was doing well.  My prof's liked me and when I was called upon to participate, I usually sounded like I knew what I was talking about (except the first time, of course).  I studied hard and worked with other students to make sure I had a good grasp on the subject matter. 

Halfway through the semester (the morning of my only midterm), my grandfather died.  No *&^%.  I took the test and got a C+ on it.  I told my Prof about my grandfather because I had to take a class day off to attend to family stuff.  He was nice about it, but didn't adjust the grade (not my expectation, but some friends think he should have).  The loss of my grandfather hit me hard and I really didn't know how to deal with it.  Being a busy law student, I didn't really have enough time to spend with him as I knew he was dying.  I tried to ignore the loss, and I didn't have time to deal with it until after the semester ended.

When finals came about, I turned into a machine.  I studied every day, 12 or so hours a day Monday through Friday, and spent every waking moment on the weekends eating and reviewing everything about my courses for two weeks.  For the last two weeks before finals, I started a small study group with two guys I know and believe to be smart and capable.  We ran E&E's, law in a flash, commercial outlines, various other problem books, and general on topic discussion.  We did this every day.

My first final was my favorite course, Contracts I.  I knew this class cold and had spent close to half a day teaching a friend how to apply the statute of frauds.  I was confident and calm.  I was also the first one out of the test.  Immediately, I began to wonder if being first out was a good thing or a terrible, awful thing.

The next final, Torts, was the same.  First out.  I was solid in torts, but details are the essence of proper tort analysis.  Uh oh.

My Property final was brutal.  I was the second person to leave.

I figured that I had over prepared and at worst, I'd pass but not by much.  Then I tried to analyze my test performances and realized that one reason I was the first out was that I was anxious, wanted to finish as fast as I could, and felt frustrated throughout the tests.  It took forever to get my grades, and they were a huge shock.  My GPA was below the schools academic dismissal threshold and I was dismissed.  I spoke to every Prof, and none of them were permitted to change my grades (literally, if one prof had raised a grade by half a letter, I'd still be in school).

When I knew nothing could be done, I accepted it an reached out through family and friends to find anyone at my law school that could help me sort through this.  I met with one of the Dean's who is a close friend of a close friend and he put me in touch with a person who has helped other dismissed students get back in.  I made an appointment to see her, but she was all emotional and weird when what I wanted was advice and guidance.  After listening to her shtick about it not being so bad (it is) and how everything is about perspective (mine is that I want to be a lawyer and the school kicked me out) and blah blah.  So after half an hour of her verbally hugging me, she gave me some ridiculous advice that would have me working full time, taking more undergrad course full time, volunteering full time, and who knows, writing a book.  Seriously, I did the math and her idea would have me working, studying, going to school and volunteering 90-100 hours a week.  She did offer to read my petition and give suggestions/advice, which I'll take her up on in a few weeks.

After sulking for a few weeks, my Dad asked me to help out for a few days at his law firm, which was busier than normal.  Three days later, his receptionist quit and he asked me to stay and answer the phones, do some filing, etc until he found a replacement.  Inside of a week, I was working on petitions and expungements.  On the side, I upgraded all their computers and handled a lot of their IT issues.  They found a replacement receptionist and asked me to stay on as a law clerk/IT guy.  For the last few months, I've been busy drafting motions and petitions, doing document review, handling expungements and combing through transcripts looking for issues that can be challenged (on top of implementing a new billing system and fixing various other IT problems).

SO, what I am hoping is that someone out there either submitted a successful petition for readmission or knows someone that did who can dole out some advice or provide me with their winning docs.  Essentially, I think I have a good idea of what to write about, but I'd appreciate any help possible.

I plan on saying that my past performance is not indicative of future results because
- I had been untreated for ADHD (I have since been to a doctor and placed on different meds that don't weird me out at all and seem to be just mild enough to be comfortable, but effective enough to make me more productive and patient) and have corrected that.
- My Grandfathers death had an enormous impact on my ability to perform well.
- I've been working in the legal field since leaving law school and it has increased my desire to become an attorney while improving my skills and knowledge.
- I truly want to be a lawyer and am willing to work at a law firm for bupkies when in my previous career I had been making a high five figure salary and could be doing that now.

Any advice?  What should I emphasize?  Does anyone have a copy of a petition for readmission that worked?  Is anyone else working on one that would be willing to share?

PM me, post it here - whatever you are comfortable with....

Thanks in advance.....

Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 08:15:55 AM
Dude if you were that close to failing (likely at a T4), then why are you bothering?  You aren't likely going to have job prospects, what do you want to do as a lawyer?  What's the point?

Not trying to be mean, but seriously....
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 09:46:36 AM
Dude if you were that close to failing (likely at a T4), then why are you bothering?  You aren't likely going to have job prospects, what do you want to do as a lawyer?  What's the point?

Not trying to be mean, but seriously....

You haven't been mean (and I appreciate that).
So, as you requested, here's the point:
- I want to be a lawyer.
Good enough?  No?
Okay, here's more:
When I decided to go to law school, it wasn't motivated by money (I had an awesome job, tons of skills, and made high 5 figures, well on my way to six figures).  I was inspired by actual service on a jury.  This is a personal journey.  I have a job waiting for me when I pass the bar.

If you read my long, detailed story, you should see that there were factors that led to testing issues.  Bear in mind that I was the class 'expert' that people bothered (every day) in the library to explain and discuss complex legal concepts.  It got so bad that I would find myself spending more time teaching the law than studying it.  At first, I tried hiding in the library in areas where no one seemed to go.  That didn't work.  People would find me.  Then I started studying in classrooms that weren't being used.  That didn't work either.  Invariably, someone would run into me then email others who would also come find me and I'd be back talking about proximate cause or SOF or UCC.  It got so bad that I had to schedule time to be free for discussions, then would head home and study by myself with my phone off so no one could get to me.  One student who happened to live by me started 'stopping by' randomly and would end up keeping me away from my work to help them with theirs.

To sum up, I understood the material very well and found school to be rather enjoyable.  I'm sick.  I know that now.

I don't think for a second that I can't do it.  I believe, completely, that my test performance was not indicative of my ability.  Every Professor I went to speak to told me that my scores were a complete shock to them.

So the point is - I want to do it because I know I can.  Now that I have the ADD thing managed, I don't think there's a chance I'd do poorly in law school.

Thanks for the post.  I get where you are coming from, really I do.  Many who fail out delude themselves into thinking it was a fluke.  Many who fail out deserved to for one reason or another.  I'm not in the category of people who shouldn't go back.  For some, it's best to let it go and move on.  For me, it would be a waste to do so.

Now, if anyone would like to help, I'd appreciate that too.

Any suggestions as to form, focus, or approach would be great.  I'd absolutely love it if someone who weathered this storm could PM me and shoot me over a copy of what worked for them.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 09:53:11 AM
What do you want to do with the JD though?  Jury duty inspired you?  Sounds like you have watched too much law and order.  I mean, odds are you aren't ever going to get into a reputable prosecutor's office with crap grades and how do you plan on paying off your law school loans with a low paying job?

Finally, I'll be honest.  A lawyer is a powerful profession and I don't think that people should be represented by failures.  You had your chance and blew it.  Move on.  Any school that lets you back is a joke anyway.

I mean your friends thought you should have your grade changed?  Give me a break.  This is law school, not kindergarten.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 10:26:06 AM
What do you want to do with the JD though?  Jury duty inspired you?  Sounds like you have watched too much law and order.  I mean, odds are you aren't ever going to get into a reputable prosecutor's office with crap grades and how do you plan on paying off your law school loans with a low paying job?

Finally, I'll be honest.  A lawyer is a powerful profession and I don't think that people should be represented by failures.  You had your chance and blew it.  Move on.  Any school that lets you back is a joke anyway.

I mean your friends thought you should have your grade changed?  Give me a break.  This is law school, not kindergarten.

Seriously, I don't think people read what others write and choose to answer based on what they think instead of what is.

So, I'll answer:
"What do you want to do with the JD though?"
Criminal defense work.

"Jury duty inspired you?"
Yes.  My father is a lawyer.  I grew up with it and decided to ignore it.  Jury duty opened my eyes to the beauty of the legal profession that I long ignored.

"Sounds like you have watched too much law and order."
I hate law and order.  Watched it once and thought it was boring.

"I mean, odds are you aren't ever going to get into a reputable prosecutor's office with crap grades and how do you plan on paying off your law school loans with a low paying job?"
Well that's good.  I don't want to be a prosecutor, though if I wanted to I could because my dad knows every prosecutor in my area and is close friends with the States Attorney (who has been to my house for dinner).  Another thing that I guess needs explanation is that I won't have 'crap grades' if I get back in - I would start over as a new student and believe I could get decent grades.

"how do you plan on paying off your law school loans with a low paying job?"
First, I don't plan on getting a low paying job.  I have a decent paying one waiting for me that would evolve into a partnership in less than 5 years.  Second, my law school loans will end up being less than $50k.  So don't sweat how I'm going to pay that off.

"A lawyer is a powerful profession and I don't think that people should be represented by failures."
This illustrates your youth and inexperience with life.  Some of the world's greatest successes failed, and many many times.
Isaac Newton did poorly in grade school.
Beethoven's music teacher once said of him "as a composer he is hopeless."
When Thomas Edison was a boy his teacher told him he was too stupid to learn anything.
F.W. Woolworth got a job in a dry good store when he was 21, but his employer would not let him wait on customers because he "didn't have enough sense."
Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team.
A newspaper editor fired Walt Disney because he had no good ideas.
Winston Churchill failed the 6th grade.
Steven Spielberg dropped out of high school in his sophomore year. He was persuaded to come back and placed in a learning disabled class. He lasted a month and dropped out of school forever.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/26591

Failure makes you stronger and teaches lessons.  I know far too many incredible and successful lawyers who almost failed out of law school, took the bar 5 times, etc.

"You had your chance and blew it.  Move on."
Now you're just being a male private part.

"Any school that lets you back is a joke anyway."
That's a bizarre statement.  Virtually every law school has a readmission policy in place.  Likely, even yours.  This is an 'elitist' argument, and one based on your personal opinions, not fact.

Thanks for sharing, but I'm not really interested in an argument over whether I should be readmitted or if I am wasting my time.  Unlike the person you THOUGHT you were talking to, I've already made up my mind.  I will be readmitted.  If you want to help, feel free.  If you want to discourage me from trying, you will fail and will be wasting your effort.  So do us both a favor and ignore the thread if your only response is going to be that I should give up.

You will have more time to leave comments on other threads and I won't have to skip over your posts on this thread or form an opinion about you and your level of maturity and understanding of the world.

Thanks!

:-)

Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Matthies on October 21, 2008, 10:37:13 AM
I was going to post this before, but Denny already did it. 3Le for a law student you made a lot of assumptions not in the fact pattern. T4 assumption, lots of debt assumption, law and order assumption and completely missed the fact that he was working as a law clerk now for his father, which sounds like a job to me. At least to me his response was what I thought it might be. Don’t just assume everyone is like you because most people you know are. Anyway, good luck OP.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: ByronHadley on October 21, 2008, 10:39:04 AM
Finally, I'll be honest.  A lawyer is a powerful profession and I don't think that people should be represented by failures.  You had your chance and blew it.  Move on.  Any school that lets you back is a joke anyway.

There are 1 million lawyers in the US.  The law of supply and demand negates your point about power. 


Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 10:39:59 AM
I'm not even reading your ramble.  You must have a great job now if you have time to sit around writing 5 page novels on discussion boards.

Also, I love your 5 years to partner comment lol.  LoL.  Daddy being a solo with a small firm hardly leads to greatness.  If you are as dumb as your first go with law school proved to be (and likely at a *&^% school at that), then no amount of connections will save you from yourself.

Good luck.  
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 10:40:24 AM
Finally, I'll be honest.  A lawyer is a powerful profession and I don't think that people should be represented by failures.  You had your chance and blew it.  Move on.  Any school that lets you back is a joke anyway.

There are 1 million lawyers in the US.  The law of supply and demand negates your point about power. 




By power I mean the ability to screw up a person's life.  Lawyers are entrusted with that power.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: ByronHadley on October 21, 2008, 10:43:52 AM
Finally, I'll be honest.  A lawyer is a powerful profession and I don't think that people should be represented by failures.  You had your chance and blew it.  Move on.  Any school that lets you back is a joke anyway.

There are 1 million lawyers in the US.  The law of supply and demand negates your point about power. 

By power I mean the ability to screw up a person's life.  Lawyers are entrusted with that power.

That is not much power.  If you screw up someone else's life you will be sued for malpractice.  Unless you are interested in career suicide the power is mostly myth.  
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 10:47:35 AM
Eh, malpractice and judgment are a fine line.  Especially for a solo practitioner.   
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Thistle on October 21, 2008, 10:59:02 AM
Dude if you were that close to failing (likely at a T4), then why are you bothering?  You aren't likely going to have job prospects, what do you want to do as a lawyer?  What's the point?

Not trying to be mean, but seriously....


yeah you were.  at least be honest about your douchebaggery.

Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 11:00:11 AM
I don't think the post was mean, it was honest.  That's the problem with some folks on this board.  You come on here wanting people to blow smoke up your ass about your jacked up situations, and when someone tells the truth (which you don't want to hear) you get all fired up.

Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 11:00:19 AM
I'm not even reading your ramble.  You must have a great job now if you have time to sit around writing 5 page novels on discussion boards.

Also, I love your 5 years to partner comment lol.  LoL.  Daddy being a solo with a small firm hardly leads to greatness.  If you are as dumb as your first go with law school proved to be (and likely at a poo school at that), then no amount of connections will save you from yourself.

Good luck.  

My job is freaking sweet.  Today is a light day and the attorneys are mostly out of the office for the jewish holiday.
That said, "Daddy" isn't a solo.  "Daddy", my brother, and another attorney are partners in a firm that has 8 active lawyers and 4 more of counsel.  "Daddy" and his partners have been very active in encouraging me to graduate law school so I can join the firm.  They need help (they are too busy) and think I could be a valuable asset.  Of course, the principal at the medium sized divorce firm hopes that I decide to specialize in that field so she can get me on board too.  And the PI lawyer that I've known for 10 years has also expressed an interest in me doing work with him.

I apologize if my posts are too long for your high intellect to spend the time reading.  For the record, my post was 660 words, including the words I quoted from your post.

Hardly a '5 page' novel.

I would like to invite you to stop reading this thread as you aren't contributing anything of value and have devolved from your initial "Not trying to be mean, but seriously...." to trying to be mean, and seriously.

Thanks, but I think folks like you are the problem around here.  Last I checked, this forum was designed for law students, potential law students, and law school graduates to have open discussions and to provide a forum where people can come for help, advice, and interesting discussions.  You've failed to meet that expectation on many levels.

Instead of trying to 'win' by making fun of me, help or go away.  It's better for your spleen.

Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 11:04:22 AM
I don't think the post was mean, it was honest.  That's the problem with some folks on this board.  You come on here wanting people to blow smoke up your ass about your jacked up situations, and when someone tells the truth (which you don't want to hear) you get all fired up.



Well YOU certainly got all fired up.
Now that you've said your peace, will you stop or continue to try and trash me?
Enough already.
Nothing you've said is original or unique.  I've read that all before on various pages.
Your version of honesty isn't rooted in reality, just your own perceptions.  You injected your own fact patterns and continue to display your lack of intellectual comprehension.
I was very specific in requesting help, not asking people to make fun of my father's practice or my desires to be readmitted.  The 'problem' around here is folks like you want to be right instead of helpful.
So, in an effort to make peace:
You are right.  I shouldn't petition for readmission.  I should quit and go do something else with my life.
Thanks for your positive influence.
Now that THAT'S over with, anyone want to help?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Thistle on October 21, 2008, 11:10:07 AM
I don't think the post was mean, it was honest.  That's the problem with some folks on this board.  You come on here wanting people to blow smoke up your ass about your jacked up situations, and when someone tells the truth (which you don't want to hear) you get all fired up.



lol, you dont have a wife or a girlfriend, do you?

"so, do i look fat in this?"

"damn baby, hell yah, lose some weight!  and trim that scraggly moustache!  wait, why are you mad baby, i wasnt being mean, i was just being honest!"


Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Matthies on October 21, 2008, 11:10:12 AM
I don't think the post was mean, it was honest.  That's the problem with some folks on this board.  You come on here wanting people to blow smoke up your ass about your jacked up situations, and when someone tells the truth (which you don't want to hear) you get all fired up.



This is what I see as the problem with some posters on this board, they use the general to satisfy the specific. As if there is one universal truth out there for everyone in every given circumstance. Christ if there is one thing I have learned in law school it’s that there is never one right answer for any given problem - ever. If there was we would not need lawyers. The law and life is full of gray areas and anytime someone starts to talk in absolutes I start to cringe.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 11:13:46 AM
Actually I'm happily married.  Thanks for asking.  

It's funny how people attack me for making assumptions, yet many of you do the same.  You assume that because I'm a feminine hygiene product on this board (which I sometimes am), that I must be a freakish loser in real life.  It's amusing.

Anyway, good luck to the OP.  I'm sure you will excel in life letting daddy pave the way for you.  
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Matthies on October 21, 2008, 11:14:39 AM
The law and life is full of gray areas

This is not an absolute.  Sometimes there is a right answer and a wrong answer.  See 2008 Presidential Election for example.

You mean change the constitution to allow Bush to run for a third term?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 11:16:55 AM
Regardless, I'll give some legitimate advice to your question:

If you want to apply for readmission, don't make excuses.  That is the first thing I noticed when you made your original post.  Take ownership of your life and acknowledge you had things going on and your head just wasn't in the game.  Explain how long you have wanted to become a lawyer and the steps you have taken to get back to this point. 

Be sincere......
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 11:21:46 AM
Actually I'm happily married.  Thanks for asking.  

It's funny how people attack me for making assumptions, yet many of you do the same.  You assume that because I'm a feminine hygiene product on this board (which I sometimes am), that I must be a freakish loser in real life.  It's amusing.

Anyway, good luck to the OP.  I'm sure you will excel in life letting daddy pave the way for you.  

Hey thanks!  I appreciate you being so NICE and avoiding being a prick.

And just so YOU know, Daddy hasn't paved the way for me before.  My last job was for a fortune 500 and I left it because I wanted to go to law school.  I did just fine without daddy's help.  I guess I should be telling my dad to @#!* off instead of taking his help.  That's what you would do, so it must be a best practice.

I'm sure you will excel at life by utilizing that winning personality and an inability to comprehend and analyze information.

Also, you might consider learning how to communicate with others.  So far, you've made yourself look like a real live a-hole, which I'm sure you reserve for this board only.

Now, can we move on people?
I'd love some actual advice and I'm not terribly happy to have had my thread hijacked by an unhappy, small minded, married male with communication and reading comprehension issues.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Matthies on October 21, 2008, 11:22:18 AM

It's funny how people attack me for making assumptions, yet many of you do the same.  You assume that because I'm a feminine hygiene product on this board (which I sometimes am), that I must be a freakish loser in real life.  It's amusing.


I never bothered to think about if you’re a douchbag in real life or not. I mean lots of people have online personas, look at World of Warcraft, I mean MMORPGs stand for Many Men Online Role Playeing Girls. Some people live out life on the net saying things they would not in person. But for me, I’m just as much of an a-hole in person as I am online, the people on here who know me in real life will confirm that fact.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 11:26:39 AM
There are seriously dude's on WoW that impersonate girls?  That game is even dorkier than I thought. 
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Matthies on October 21, 2008, 11:27:43 AM
There are seriously dude's on WoW that impersonate girls?  That game is even dorkier than I thought. 

the magority of female players are guys, in all online games
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 11:31:03 AM
But don't people talk on microphones on WOW?  That's so funny.  I don't get it.  Then again, I can't really understand why anyone could get so into that game to begin with.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: A5678G245 on October 21, 2008, 12:16:45 PM
OP you seem like a hard working, well spoken, and intelligent person...Surely you will find success at becoming an attorney. Unlike Mr. 3L guy says, everyone does not have a picture perfect past, but this by no means precludes this bunch from having a successful future...Just two years ago I made a large mistake (as a UG) that ended up in a felony charge after a drunken disorderly incident in which a car window got broken...I never would have thought that I would be able to recover, I almost was expelled from my prominent public university (top 3 in the country), I never would have thought I could get into any law school (with a criminal record)...Im sure 3L guy would have told me to give up on my quest to go to law school...My priority track Duke acceptance puts these naysayers to shame...Keep on working, and keep on trying Denny...you do that and your chances of failure are non-existant...you might want to try and re-apply to several law schools though, it sounds like with your situation a law degree and a bar passage is all you need...You don't need a t14 law degree to get gainful employment.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: A5678G245 on October 21, 2008, 12:22:19 PM
Oh and 3LEMan, where do you go to law school? You make fun of the T4 so well...you sound like a T2/T3 with a major self esteem issue.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 12:29:03 PM
Oh and 3LEMan, where do you go to law school? You make fun of the T4 so well...you sound like a T2/T3 with a major self esteem issue.

I go to GW, and in all honesty, if I had had to pay full-price here I wouldn't have gone.  I opted for GW over a top 10 because it saved me substantial sums of money. 

Also, if you read my posts, I don't have a problem with lower ranked schools, they just aren't worth the cost. 

Finally, your situation was different.  You had a moral screw up as a youth.  The OP failed out of law school, and a crappy one at that........
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: A5678G245 on October 21, 2008, 12:46:39 PM
tou-che
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 12:48:44 PM
tou-che

Are you at Duke now?  I have friends there.  Great school.  Too bad while they are there all those renovations are going on.  At least you will actually get to enjoy them when they are done.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 01:12:59 PM
Oh and 3LEMan, where do you go to law school? You make fun of the T4 so well...you sound like a T2/T3 with a major self esteem issue.

I go to GW, and in all honesty, if I had had to pay full-price here I wouldn't have gone.  I opted for GW over a top 10 because it saved me substantial sums of money. 

Also, if you read my posts, I don't have a problem with lower ranked schools, they just aren't worth the cost. 

Finally, your situation was different.  You had a moral screw up as a youth.  The OP failed out of law school, and a crappy one at that........

How do you know how good my law school is exactly?

GW is a great school.  According to LSAC, zero 1st years were academically dismissed.  You should know that my school has the highest dismissal rate in the state I live in.  From what I can tell, the school has a policy in place designed to shed about 10% of each entering class.

Can you lay the @#!* off of me and get on with your life, or are you required now to throw a shot my way to prove how big your cock is?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 01:14:43 PM
Generally, schools with a high dismissal rate are toilet schools that shouldn't be around.  It's a money hungry thing to do.  Rather than reject unqualified students, they admit you, then boot you when you inevitably fail....
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 01:15:33 PM
Generally, schools with a high dismissal rate are toilet schools that shouldn't be around.  It's a money hungry thing to do.  Rather than reject unqualified students, they admit you, then boot you when you inevitably fail....

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  I appreciate it, but couldn't care less.

Don't you have anything else to do, like maybe study?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 01:32:06 PM
OP you seem like a hard working, well spoken, and intelligent person...Surely you will find success at becoming an attorney. Unlike Mr. 3L guy says, everyone does not have a picture perfect past, but this by no means precludes this bunch from having a successful future...Just two years ago I made a large mistake (as a UG) that ended up in a felony charge after a drunken disorderly incident in which a car window got broken...I never would have thought that I would be able to recover, I almost was expelled from my prominent public university (top 3 in the country), I never would have thought I could get into any law school (with a criminal record)...Im sure 3L guy would have told me to give up on my quest to go to law school...My priority track Duke acceptance puts these naysayers to shame...Keep on working, and keep on trying Denny...you do that and your chances of failure are non-existant...you might want to try and re-apply to several law schools though, it sounds like with your situation a law degree and a bar passage is all you need...You don't need a t14 law degree to get gainful employment.

Maturity?  Encouragement?  ON LSD?????@!?!?!?!?!?

:-)

Thanks.  I appreciate you.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 01:41:49 PM
Generally, schools with a high dismissal rate are toilet schools that shouldn't be around.  It's a money hungry thing to do.  Rather than reject unqualified students, they admit you, then boot you when you inevitably fail....

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  I appreciate it, but couldn't care less.

Don't you have anything else to do, like maybe study?

Yes, you would only like my opinion if it was "you rock."
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: wingman on October 21, 2008, 01:44:28 PM
Oh and 3LEMan, where do you go to law school? You make fun of the T4 so well...you sound like a T2/T3 with a major self esteem issue.

I go to GW, and in all honesty, if I had had to pay full-price here I wouldn't have gone.  I opted for GW over a top 10 because it saved me substantial sums of money. 

Also, if you read my posts, I don't have a problem with lower ranked schools, they just aren't worth the cost. 

Finally, your situation was different.  You had a moral screw up as a youth.  The OP failed out of law school, and a crappy one at that........

How do you know how good my law school is exactly?

GW is a great school.  According to LSAC, zero 1st years were academically dismissed.  You should know that my school has the highest dismissal rate in the state I live in.  From what I can tell, the school has a policy in place designed to shed about 10% of each entering class.

Can you lay the @#!* off of me and get on with your life, or are you required now to throw a shot my way to prove how big your cock is?

Cooley?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 01:53:29 PM
Generally, schools with a high dismissal rate are toilet schools that shouldn't be around.  It's a money hungry thing to do.  Rather than reject unqualified students, they admit you, then boot you when you inevitably fail....

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  I appreciate it, but couldn't care less.

Don't you have anything else to do, like maybe study?

Yes, you would only like my opinion if it was "you rock."

No.  What I would like is if you would go back and read my initial post where I asked for advice and help.  You might notice this time that I did not ask for your opinion on readmission, but was clearly seeking guidance.

I would love your opinion if you responded to the questions posed in the initial post.  That would be awesome.

But each time you've posted, you've done so to discourage me, make fun of me, rip me and make me feel bad. 

So.  Would you like to be helpful or is your switch stuck on 'a-hole'?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 01:57:16 PM
Generally, schools with a high dismissal rate are toilet schools that shouldn't be around.  It's a money hungry thing to do.  Rather than reject unqualified students, they admit you, then boot you when you inevitably fail....

Thanks for sharing your opinion.  I appreciate it, but couldn't care less.

Don't you have anything else to do, like maybe study?

Yes, you would only like my opinion if it was "you rock."

No.  What I would like is if you would go back and read my initial post where I asked for advice and help.  You might notice this time that I did not ask for your opinion on readmission, but was clearly seeking guidance.

I would love your opinion if you responded to the questions posed in the initial post.  That would be awesome.

But each time you've posted, you've done so to discourage me, make fun of me, rip me and make me feel bad. 

So.  Would you like to be helpful or is your switch stuck on 'a-hole'?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 01:59:18 PM
Oh and 3LEMan, where do you go to law school? You make fun of the T4 so well...you sound like a T2/T3 with a major self esteem issue.

I go to GW, and in all honesty, if I had had to pay full-price here I wouldn't have gone.  I opted for GW over a top 10 because it saved me substantial sums of money. 

Also, if you read my posts, I don't have a problem with lower ranked schools, they just aren't worth the cost. 

Finally, your situation was different.  You had a moral screw up as a youth.  The OP failed out of law school, and a crappy one at that........

How do you know how good my law school is exactly?

GW is a great school.  According to LSAC, zero 1st years were academically dismissed.  You should know that my school has the highest dismissal rate in the state I live in.  From what I can tell, the school has a policy in place designed to shed about 10% of each entering class.

Can you lay the @#!* off of me and get on with your life, or are you required now to throw a shot my way to prove how big your cock is?

Cooley?

Nope.  Turned down scholarship money there though....
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: MauveAvenger on October 21, 2008, 02:33:26 PM
tou-che

it's touche. it's french. it's used in fencing when one fencer manages to "touch" the other with his foil, epee or sabre.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: wingman on October 21, 2008, 02:39:32 PM
tou-che

it's touche. it's french. it's used in fencing when one fencer manages to "touch" the other with his foil, epee or sabre.

twoshay.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: MauveAvenger on October 21, 2008, 02:47:02 PM
tou-che

it's touche. it's french. it's used in fencing when one fencer manages to "touch" the other with his foil, epee or sabre.

twoshay.

maresee.  :D
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Ender Wiggin on October 21, 2008, 02:50:42 PM
Seriously?  Nobody else is thinking what I was thinking right from the start?

(http://www.freefoto.com/images/33/15/33_15_10---Fire-Flame-Texture_web.jpg)      
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Ender Wiggin on October 21, 2008, 02:51:59 PM
tou-che

it's touche. it's french. it's used in fencing when one fencer manages to "touch" the other with his foil, epee or sabre.

twoshay.

maresee.  :D

(http://www.whalesdirect.com/cat-images-lg/RM125.jpg)
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: MauveAvenger on October 21, 2008, 02:53:07 PM
tou-che

it's touche. it's french. it's used in fencing when one fencer manages to "touch" the other with his foil, epee or sabre.

twoshay.

maresee.  :D

(http://www.whalesdirect.com/cat-images-lg/RM125.jpg)

 ;D Where the hell did you find that?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 03:45:52 PM
Seriously?  Nobody else is thinking what I was thinking right from the start?

(http://www.freefoto.com/images/33/15/33_15_10---Fire-Flame-Texture_web.jpg)      
[/quote

????
I hope you don't mean me....

I'm dead serious.  I am looking for help.  If you know anyone who has successfully petitioned for readmission, I'd love to hear about it.

Suggestions are welcome, so long as they aren't of the 'give up, moron' type.  I've already made up my mind that I am going to try and get back in, so if anyone reading this feels compelled to try to convince me otherwise, they should be forewarned that it is a waste of their time.

I thought that was clear from my first post, but I guess not.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: zy on October 21, 2008, 04:18:57 PM
To the OP:

Are you trying to gain re-admission to the school you were dismissed from, or are you trying to apply to a number of law schools in order to start over? My impression is that you are doing the former, but if you could clarify that point, that might help.

While I do not know of anyone who has petitioned for re-admission, my suggestion would be to contact the Dean's office of your former school to find out what their specific policies are (e.g., submit a whole new application, interview with the deans, etc.).  Once you have some guidance from the school, we can try to help you nail down the specifics of each task.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 04:40:30 PM
To the OP:

Are you trying to gain re-admission to the school you were dismissed from, or are you trying to apply to a number of law schools in order to start over? My impression is that you are doing the former, but if you could clarify that point, that might help.

While I do not know of anyone who has petitioned for re-admission, my suggestion would be to contact the Dean's office of your former school to find out what their specific policies are (e.g., submit a whole new application, interview with the deans, etc.).  Once you have some guidance from the school, we can try to help you nail down the specifics of each task.  Good luck.

I'm attempting to gain readmission into the school that dismissed me.  Per ABA rules, I would have to wait another year (!) to apply to other schools.

I spoke with a dean about readmission, but they didn't have much information to give.  Essentially, they accept petitions in February of each year.  They usually get 12-16 and admit 4-6.  They told me they consider extenuating circumstances, changes made to minimize those circumstances, things that happened that may have affected performance, what you've done since being dismissed, etc.

If you have some time, I wrote out a description of what happened in the first post of the thread that might help fill in the details.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: SCOOTERNINJA on October 21, 2008, 06:20:54 PM
You pretty much have to apply for re-admission at the same school, because most schools wont take anyone who is not in good standing at their former school.

Anyways, sorry that there seems to be a lot of ego-driven aholes on this site.  I really hope you are readmitted, but I cant offer any advice as I do not know anyone who has ever tried.  If you sincerely want to go back to law school (like it sounds), I am pretty sure that will come across in any potential re-admission interview and I think that would help greatly.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 21, 2008, 08:18:23 PM

[/quote]

Nope.  Turned down scholarship money there though....
[/quote]

LoL you are bragging about a scholarship from Cooley hahaha.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 21, 2008, 09:02:22 PM
Yes.  That's what I was doing.  I was bragging.
Hahahahahahaha.
Thank you for keeping the conversation active.  I do appreciate you checking in on me and letting me know you are still there.  The only question is: why? ???
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: wingman on October 21, 2008, 09:22:28 PM
I am not trying to be a jerk about things...but seriously. You applied to Cooley, and flunked out of the law school you were in. What makes you this confident that you were "meant to be a lawyer"?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: mqt on October 21, 2008, 10:17:34 PM

I spoke with a dean about readmission, but they didn't have much information to give.  Essentially, they accept petitions in February of each year.  They usually get 12-16 and admit 4-6. 

Wow, that is eye opening, as no one flunked out of my school that I know of (I'd always check the grade distributions for my classes after each semester, and for each class, there were usually one or two Cs, and a handful of C+s, but that's about as low as it went).  I'm just writing because that was really surprising to me. Holy cow...they flunk out so many that there are 12-16 that apply for readmission each year?  That's just shameful that a school would do that, and it really does make me wonder whether the motivation truly is an extra year of tuition money, as one poster alluded to earlier.  I mean, I understand maybe dismissing 1 or 2 a year for truly bad grades, but if they're flunking out 5, 10, 15, 20 whatever it might be (I presume that all 12-16 readmission applicants each year might not necessarily be from the same class and also that not all dismissed students reapply, so who knows what the annual number really is), then that's B.S.  No "academic-probation" either?  Sorry, I know this post wasn't helpful to your question, I just wanted to express my indignation at your situation. 
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 22, 2008, 07:04:19 AM
I am not trying to be a jerk about things...but seriously. You applied to Cooley, and flunked out of the law school you were in. What makes you this confident that you were "meant to be a lawyer"?

EXACTLY.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: hitmon33 on October 22, 2008, 09:09:43 AM
Denny, I don't know enough either way to offer you meaningful advice on readmission, but with regard to 3LEMan, just ignore him.  Any time one gets really personal on a message board, he or she is bound to receive about 90% crap and 10% good advice.  Take the 10% and move on.  Don't even comment on the other 90%.  Invariably, these are people who mostly thrive on reactions, and after reading this thread, you have reacted plenty. 
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 22, 2008, 09:54:54 AM
I am not trying to be a jerk about things...but seriously. You applied to Cooley, and flunked out of the law school you were in. What makes you this confident that you were "meant to be a lawyer"?

I applied to Cooley because I was interested in their 2 year program, where you go full time year round.  The idea was to become a lawyer as quickly as possible.  When I was accepted to the school I went to, I decided not to attend Cooley because my school has a much better reputation.

To answer your second question, I would point you to my original post.  Unfortunately for law school, and me, there was only one set of tests and one set of testing conditions.  While taking the tests, I was extremely anxious as a result of my add symptoms.  I had never been exposed to such rigorous testing and the ADD made me extremely uncomfortable.  As I stated in the first post, I was the first one out of the test room.  I am this confident because I understood the material and was the class expert.  The problem, and now that I have the ADD in control I am quite sure of this, was the testing conditions.  Now that I'm on meds and have them dialed in, I've been taking practice exams and scoring very well.

I'm not sure why applying to Cooley has any bearing on the matter.  I didn't go there.  Cooley has literally nothing to do with anything.

I also applied to the University of Chicago law school - does that have any bearing on getting advice and help with a petition for readmission?

Thanks for reading.  If you would like to help, please read the opening post of this thread and give me some suggestions.

Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 22, 2008, 10:05:50 AM

I spoke with a dean about readmission, but they didn't have much information to give.  Essentially, they accept petitions in February of each year.  They usually get 12-16 and admit 4-6. 

Wow, that is eye opening, as no one flunked out of my school that I know of (I'd always check the grade distributions for my classes after each semester, and for each class, there were usually one or two Cs, and a handful of C+s, but that's about as low as it went).  I'm just writing because that was really surprising to me. Holy cow...they flunk out so many that there are 12-16 that apply for readmission each year?  That's just shameful that a school would do that, and it really does make me wonder whether the motivation truly is an extra year of tuition money, as one poster alluded to earlier.  I mean, I understand maybe dismissing 1 or 2 a year for truly bad grades, but if they're flunking out 5, 10, 15, 20 whatever it might be (I presume that all 12-16 readmission applicants each year might not necessarily be from the same class and also that not all dismissed students reapply, so who knows what the annual number really is), then that's B.S.  No "academic-probation" either?  Sorry, I know this post wasn't helpful to your question, I just wanted to express my indignation at your situation. 


I'm past my own indignation, but appreciate your expression.
To be clear: my school has a one semester tolerance threshold and fails out approximately 30-40 students per year.  In many schools, particularly the better ones, there seems to be very little if any academic dismissals.  My school academically dismisses more students per year than all the other law schools in the states COMBINED.

It is, quite clearly, a money thing.  They have no problem dismissing 30-40 students per year.  Their excuse is bar passage rates and some nonsense about increasing said rates, but their bar passage rate seems to be fairly steady over the last decade or so.  The truth is probably more business oriented than academic in nature.  If you enroll 30-40 students for one year that you anticipate dropping, you make that much more tuition without putting too much of a strain on the institution.  Then, of course, you end up with people like me who are determined to come back and repeat that coursework, meaning they get me to pay for my first semester twice.  Not a bad deal.

Now I don't doubt that of the 15 or so students that were academically dismissed, most deserved it because after looking over some of the names there are few surprises.  However, when I was dismissed, it was a shock.  I remain in touch with many of my classmates and all of them were absolutely shocked to hear about my predicament.  Please understand, this is a systemic issue.  The school requires that Prof's give 10% of the class D's or F's. 

Yet another compelling argument for my readmission is that I scored similarly on every test.  I would understand if I got one bad grade, but every test result was practically identical.  We have a blind grade, so each of my Prof's were besides themselves when I showed up and told them my scores/grade.  Each wanted to help and each was denied that ability after meeting with academic services.  All of my prof's offered to write me a letter of recommendation for readmission, which I think speaks pretty highly of their opinion regarding my abilities and knowledge.

It sucks.  I agree.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Matthies on October 22, 2008, 10:06:50 AM
I think what you need to do is just reapply and see how it goes. It may take more than one attempt to get back in. But be sure not to come off as whiney, which you could without even knowing it. Its easy with hindsight to see ADD as the only problem with your grades. But I think there is more to it, and you need to be open to that in your reapplication. You need to demonstrate that you are a different person than when you last talked law school, not just a medicated person.

Taking the mediation is part of that, but it won’t I think, nor should it be the premise of your reapplication that is a cure-all. Its not, trust me. I have ADD plus I am severally dyslexic. I did not take meds for my first two years of law school for ADD and they don’t make meds for dyslexic. My grades were good. I’m not saying your ADD was not part of the problem, it likely was a big part of it, but there are other things going on as well. I would make sure the adcoms understand that YOU understand that. I would also advise you take a look at some of the excellent books out there on how to take law school exams, that might help you as well.

Being medicated and having a better understanding of what professors are looking for on exams can’t do anything to hurt you. 
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 22, 2008, 10:08:34 AM

I spoke with a dean about readmission, but they didn't have much information to give.  Essentially, they accept petitions in February of each year.  They usually get 12-16 and admit 4-6. 

Wow, that is eye opening, as no one flunked out of my school that I know of (I'd always check the grade distributions for my classes after each semester, and for each class, there were usually one or two Cs, and a handful of C+s, but that's about as low as it went).  I'm just writing because that was really surprising to me. Holy cow...they flunk out so many that there are 12-16 that apply for readmission each year?  That's just shameful that a school would do that, and it really does make me wonder whether the motivation truly is an extra year of tuition money, as one poster alluded to earlier.  I mean, I understand maybe dismissing 1 or 2 a year for truly bad grades, but if they're flunking out 5, 10, 15, 20 whatever it might be (I presume that all 12-16 readmission applicants each year might not necessarily be from the same class and also that not all dismissed students reapply, so who knows what the annual number really is), then that's B.S.  No "academic-probation" either?  Sorry, I know this post wasn't helpful to your question, I just wanted to express my indignation at your situation. 


I'm past my own indignation, but appreciate your expression.
To be clear: my school has a one semester tolerance threshold and fails out approximately 30-40 students per year.  In many schools, particularly the better ones, there seems to be very little if any academic dismissals.  My school academically dismisses more students per year than all the other law schools in the states COMBINED.

It is, quite clearly, a money thing.  They have no problem dismissing 30-40 students per year.  Their excuse is bar passage rates and some nonsense about increasing said rates, but their bar passage rate seems to be fairly steady over the last decade or so.  The truth is probably more business oriented than academic in nature.  If you enroll 30-40 students for one year that you anticipate dropping, you make that much more tuition without putting too much of a strain on the institution.  Then, of course, you end up with people like me who are determined to come back and repeat that coursework, meaning they get me to pay for my first semester twice.  Not a bad deal.

Now I don't doubt that of the 15 or so students that were academically dismissed, most deserved it because after looking over some of the names there are few surprises.  However, when I was dismissed, it was a shock.  I remain in touch with many of my classmates and all of them were absolutely shocked to hear about my predicament.  Please understand, this is a systemic issue.  The school requires that Prof's give 10% of the class D's or F's. 

Yet another compelling argument for my readmission is that I scored similarly on every test.  I would understand if I got one bad grade, but every test result was practically identical.  We have a blind grade, so each of my Prof's were besides themselves when I showed up and told them my scores/grade.  Each wanted to help and each was denied that ability after meeting with academic services.  All of my prof's offered to write me a letter of recommendation for readmission, which I think speaks pretty highly of their opinion regarding my abilities and knowledge.

It sucks.  I agree.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 22, 2008, 10:09:44 AM
LoL.  Become a lawyer as quickly as possible so you can go sponge off daddy.  I wonder if he will keep you around because you are his son, or boot you when you prove to be a moron, which you obviously are considering that Cooley was even an option for you.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 22, 2008, 10:13:07 AM
Denny, I don't know enough either way to offer you meaningful advice on readmission, but with regard to 3LEMan, just ignore him.  Any time one gets really personal on a message board, he or she is bound to receive about 90% crap and 10% good advice.  Take the 10% and move on.  Don't even comment on the other 90%.  Invariably, these are people who mostly thrive on reactions, and after reading this thread, you have reacted plenty. 

Excellent advice.
I will take it and ignore 3LEMan.
Clearly he is unhappy and has been using my thread to feel better about himself.   ::)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 22, 2008, 10:14:28 AM
I think what you need to do is just reapply and see how it goes. It may take more than one attempt to get back in. But be sure not to come off as whiney, which you could without even knowing it. Its easy with hindsight to see ADD as the only problem with your grades. But I think there is more to it, and you need to be open to that in your reapplication. You need to demonstrate that you are a different person than when you last talked law school, not just a medicated person.

Taking the mediation is part of that, but it won’t I think, nor should it be the premise of your reapplication that is a cure-all. Its not, trust me. I have ADD plus I am severally dyslexic. I did not take meds for my first two years of law school for ADD and they don’t make meds for dyslexic. My grades were good. I’m not saying your ADD was not part of the problem, it likely was a big part of it, but there are other things going on as well. I would make sure the adcoms understand that YOU understand that. I would also advise you take a look at some of the excellent books out there on how to take law school exams, that might help you as well.

Being medicated and having a better understanding of what professors are looking for on exams can’t do anything to hurt you. 


Excellent.  Thanks.
I bought LEEWS just after the semester ended and plan on tacking that in the next few weeks or so.
Do you have any other names of books/programs that you could recommend?

Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 22, 2008, 10:18:02 AM
I am very happy actually.  This is just amusing.

Honestly though, don't you think you should see if you can get back INTO law school before worrying about LEEWS?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Matthies on October 22, 2008, 10:18:22 AM
I think what you need to do is just reapply and see how it goes. It may take more than one attempt to get back in. But be sure not to come off as whiney, which you could without even knowing it. Its easy with hindsight to see ADD as the only problem with your grades. But I think there is more to it, and you need to be open to that in your reapplication. You need to demonstrate that you are a different person than when you last talked law school, not just a medicated person.

Taking the mediation is part of that, but it won’t I think, nor should it be the premise of your reapplication that is a cure-all. Its not, trust me. I have ADD plus I am severally dyslexic. I did not take meds for my first two years of law school for ADD and they don’t make meds for dyslexic. My grades were good. I’m not saying your ADD was not part of the problem, it likely was a big part of it, but there are other things going on as well. I would make sure the adcoms understand that YOU understand that. I would also advise you take a look at some of the excellent books out there on how to take law school exams, that might help you as well.

Being medicated and having a better understanding of what professors are looking for on exams can’t do anything to hurt you. 


Excellent.  Thanks.
I bought LEEWS just after the semester ended and plan on tacking that in the next few weeks or so.
Do you have any other names of books/programs that you could recommend?



A lot of people like Getting to Maybe, I never read it though. I did read "How to do your best on law schools exams" and I thought that was pretty good for explaining what profs were looking to see on exams. Both you can get through Amazon I think
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 22, 2008, 10:21:25 AM
I think what you need to do is just reapply and see how it goes. It may take more than one attempt to get back in. But be sure not to come off as whiney, which you could without even knowing it. Its easy with hindsight to see ADD as the only problem with your grades. But I think there is more to it, and you need to be open to that in your reapplication. You need to demonstrate that you are a different person than when you last talked law school, not just a medicated person.

Taking the mediation is part of that, but it won’t I think, nor should it be the premise of your reapplication that is a cure-all. Its not, trust me. I have ADD plus I am severally dyslexic. I did not take meds for my first two years of law school for ADD and they don’t make meds for dyslexic. My grades were good. I’m not saying your ADD was not part of the problem, it likely was a big part of it, but there are other things going on as well. I would make sure the adcoms understand that YOU understand that. I would also advise you take a look at some of the excellent books out there on how to take law school exams, that might help you as well.

Being medicated and having a better understanding of what professors are looking for on exams can’t do anything to hurt you. 


Excellent.  Thanks.
I bought LEEWS just after the semester ended and plan on tacking that in the next few weeks or so.
Do you have any other names of books/programs that you could recommend?



A lot of people like Getting to Maybe, I never read it though. I did read "How to do your best on law schools exams" and I thought that was pretty good for explaining what profs were looking to see on exams. Both you can get through Amazon I think

Awesome.  I have access to a copy of Getting to Maybe, so I'll read that next and check out How to do... later.

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: fertsru on October 23, 2008, 08:09:48 PM
Denny,

I was reading your initial explanation why you did so bad on the tests and one question is still lurking in my mind. Did you take any sample exams during your preparation time?

It seems like you were really devoted to classroom participation and the whole socializing thing. You mentioned that you studied from outlines and supplements in a study group, comments to others, explained concepts, etc.  It all seems like your ADD condition prevents you from focusing on something for a long time (let's say 2-3 hours during an exam).

The reason I am asking this question is to learn from your mistakes, and also to make you think if you would be able to sit on the Bar exam for the whole day writing and analyzing something without ever talking to anyone. When you become an attorney, you would spend hours drafting briefs and motions, doing extensive research, while again never having to talk to anyone for at least a couple of hours. Can you do it?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on October 24, 2008, 10:59:14 AM
Denny,

I was reading your initial explanation why you did so bad on the tests and one question is still lurking in my mind. Did you take any sample exams during your preparation time?

It seems like you were really devoted to classroom participation and the whole socializing thing. You mentioned that you studied from outlines and supplements in a study group, comments to others, explained concepts, etc.  It all seems like your ADD condition prevents you from focusing on something for a long time (let's say 2-3 hours during an exam).

The reason I am asking this question is to learn from your mistakes, and also to make you think if you would be able to sit on the Bar exam for the whole day writing and analyzing something without ever talking to anyone. When you become an attorney, you would spend hours drafting briefs and motions, doing extensive research, while again never having to talk to anyone for at least a couple of hours. Can you do it?


Excellent points all.

Unfortunately, I did not sit for practice exams (yet another thing I will point to in my petition - this was a bad strategy).  Without a question, this would have helped me to prepare and I'm more than a little upset at myself for not taking practice exams.  Each of my prof's told us that they do not have old tests on file, so my study group and I left that alone (mistake).

As to the rest, since dialing in my meds I have taken practice exams and done quite well on them.  You are correct that my symptoms revolved around sitting for extended periods of time in testing conditions.  Primarily, my response was one that can best be described as anxiety.  I found myself frustrated during the tests and wanting nothing more than to be done and leave.  Since dialing in the meds, these problems appear to have resolved themselves.  I no longer get tense, anxious and frustrated and my current clerking requires that I read a few hundred pages of testimony searching for irregularities and basis' for legal challenges.  I've noticed a massive difference in my performance from when I first started doing this (without meds) to now (with them).

I currently spend a few hours a week drafting motions and briefs at the firm now and have noticed a vast difference in my ability to perform since I started taking medication.

Finally, to answer your question:  Yes.  I believe I can do it now.

One major obstacle was my stubborn nature - I didn't WANT to be on meds.  Another was that my only law school testing experience was the midterm and that result was tainted by the loss of my grandfather the morning of the test (literally two hours prior).

I believe that now I am far more able and believe that things will be much more reasonable.

Thanks for the post.  Stuff like this is very helpful.  I am quite sure the readmission board would like to see that I am able to identify some of the issues that made my experience difficult and have worked to minimize it.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: TheDudeMan on October 24, 2008, 11:25:32 AM
Ok, at this point I call flame and a rather impressive one at that.  If it's not a flame, then this dude is obviously a lunatic and this will likely show in whatever ramblings he sends off to his old law school.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: fertsru on October 24, 2008, 11:44:37 AM
Denny,

I think you stand a good chance being on of those 2-3 people who do get readmitted. You are taking a very detailed approach to this readmission process by going step by step over the mistakes and solutions to them.

I think it's great that one person can admit to his weakness and start taking control of it, unlike the above poster who is not even aware of the problem.

So, go for it. Don't worry about daddy jokes, it's normal for your family to support you. I don't have anyone like this, but if I had, I would not have had a problem using extra help. My parents do all what they can- they support me with their attitute and mere words. Yours can give a little more, which is great. I will do the same to my kid any time!
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Litig8r on December 09, 2008, 08:24:54 PM
Denny,

Firstly, marks in law school are not determinative of your abilities as a lawyer. Some of the best lawyers in the world did just average throughout law school. Many solo practitioners make far more money than equity partners in huge firms, and moreover, you dont have some male private part head breathing down your neck about your work all the time. Most associates who start off at a big firm have a partner, senior partner, and managing partner looking over their shoulder all the time.

For your problem of getting back in to school, look at it from an advocates perspective. What are the conditions precedent that have to be met before you can get back in? The law school must have a guideline on how people can reapply or be readmitted. If they do not then go into the law school and sit down with the Dean and negociate a special contract, in which you guarantee to achieve a certain level of success on your next set of exams, for some sort of consideration, be it the forfeiture of a full year's tuition or something else. Maybe you can offer that your Dad's firm will conduct pro bono work on behalf of the school as additional consideration. I dont know, but dont just give up if you are really serious about this. And in terms of people doing *&^% in school and being successful, just look at President Bush, hes a f-ing twat in terms of intelligence yet runs the country.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on April 12, 2009, 10:10:54 PM
I just found out that I am back in starting in the fall.
My advice for anyone going through this is simple:
If you want it bad enough, go for it.  I've made some major changes to my life and expect a far different result this go around.  If you have true mitigating circumstances and have made changes to your life, you have a shot.  Don't give up unless you've decided that law school wasn't for you.  Do that on your own - folks around here are more than happy to try to convince you to give up.  Only you can make that decision.  Well, you and the law school...
Good luck to all - even those who "be hatin". 
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: uh huh. on April 13, 2009, 09:29:25 AM
Congratulations - I wish you much success!
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: ISUCKATTHIS on April 13, 2009, 05:29:34 PM
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Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on April 13, 2009, 09:22:45 PM
Congratulations - I wish you much success!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on April 13, 2009, 09:23:20 PM
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That looks awesome!  How long did it take you to figure out how to do that?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: same_as_you on October 22, 2009, 06:06:09 AM
hey any chance you can send me a copy of your petition?  I am facing the same problem.



Moralesmar09@aol.com
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Denny Shore on June 12, 2012, 12:16:58 AM
I thought I would update this thread.
I graduated from law school on June 3rd.
My final GPA was 3.152.
So for all of you who have read this thread and have been supportive, thank you.
For those of you who will read this thread full of doubt, embarrassment, and shame, know it can be done.  Figure out if you want to really go back, then refuse to let the haters get in your way.  What they don't understand is that you will appreciate and value your experience far more than they are capable of. 
For those of you who tried to discourage me, who mocked me, who used my experience to make fun of me, who copied and pasted my experiences to other horrible boards so other law students could mercilessly mock me......  Thank you.  You've made me succeed, in a weird kind of way.
Remember, future lawyers - be nice.  You never know who is paying attention.  Being a d*ck might seem like fun, but those who choose to behave badly always end up paying for their stupidity in the end.
Hopefully, this thread will provide inspiration for people who need it.  Many people told me I was a fool.  Some folks thought I was stupid.  Then again, I doubt they got as many A+'s as I did.

Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: IrrX on June 12, 2012, 08:33:51 AM
Good job, Denny. Congrats on making it through. How's bar study going?
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: hellhounds88 on June 12, 2012, 01:19:15 PM
I don't have time to read this entire discussion, but reading the most recent posts has made me smile. Congrats, mate.
Title: Re: Petition for readmission - help?
Post by: Cher1300 on June 14, 2012, 09:38:07 AM
Congratulations!  I think all 1Ls have this fear at some point or another.  This is especially true when a class mate who appeared to "get it" doesn't return after the first semester or first year.   Your thread should inspire those who really want to be lawyers that despite all the hard work, couldn't make it on their first try.  Some of the most successful people are ones that overcome obstacles and negativity, and I'm glad to see one of them on this forum.  Good luck on the bar exam!