Law School Discussion

Law Students => Job Search => Topic started by: zerofact0r on October 06, 2008, 03:39:17 PM

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Post by: zerofact0r on October 06, 2008, 03:39:17 PM
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Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: nealric on October 07, 2008, 11:27:24 AM
I do know a few people here at GULC who have no offers.

Everyone gets callbacks, but the callback/offer ratio is pretty grim. I'm very fortunate to have one offer on the table, hoping for more (still waiting on the results of 4 callbacks)
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: Megara on October 07, 2008, 11:37:46 AM
well, i finally got an offer myself.  The ratio is very grim indeed...
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: TeeTwenty on October 07, 2008, 11:57:18 AM
Got and accepted an offer.

First Tier school. Firm is in NJ.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: OldCraig on October 07, 2008, 12:02:30 PM
6 callbacks - 3 offers - 1 no offer - 2 outstanding

Not bad eh? And here's the funniest part, the "no offer" was a total hatchet job on my part.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: lflyer on October 07, 2008, 01:35:30 PM
6 callbacks - 4 offers - accepting my top choice today. 

The two no-offers were both from different offices of the same firm.  Ironically they were by far my two best "performances" since I was familiar with the people at the firm beforehand.  One of the associates later told me that they were severely reducing their summer program for the upcoming summer so who knows whether that played into it.

The sense I get from people at my T20 is that things are about the same as usual.  People outside the top 35% (including me) are getting biglaw jobs.  As to whether they are outliers or representative of the whole I have no clue.  I know a few people inside the top 15% with LR that are struggling but again, who knows whether they are outliers or not. 

I'm kind of surprised to hear about the struggles of others as I was way outside the supposed biglaw cutoff at my school without anything interesting on my resume and no connections and still made out really well in comparison to what I had been told to expect. 
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: daisy2010 on October 07, 2008, 04:21:13 PM
its definitely bad. People at my school were told we would all get jobs even if we were in the bottom 10% of our class. This hasn't been the case this year. There are still many people without offers. But I have received 6 offers.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: jacy85 on October 08, 2008, 04:06:52 AM
Above the Law just released survey results on how hiring is going.  It painted a pretty dismal picture.

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/10/fall_recruiting_follow-up.php (http://abovethelaw.com/2008/10/fall_recruiting_follow-up.php)
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: thorc954 on October 08, 2008, 04:40:39 AM
11 screening, 1 callback, 1 offer. 
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: SASS on October 08, 2008, 07:12:39 AM
Top 20, Law Review, no offers and very little interviewing.

The outlook is grim indeed. I am trying to network my butt off now.

Does anyone have advice on emailing alumni? What is the protocol, etc? I am such a wimp but emailing random people that I don't know is something I wish I did not have to do!
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: ScoobySnacks on October 08, 2008, 07:26:45 AM
T10. No law review, pretty good grades. 22 screening interviews. 15 callbacks. Did 9 of the callbacks. 5 offers, 1 post-callback ding, 3 outstanding.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: Jets on October 08, 2008, 07:59:17 AM
T10 transfer from T25. Top 1%, law review and skills boards there so I thought I'd be fine without leaving and only left for personal reasons but--as it turns out--I have a lot of similarly situated friends who have really struggled. Not sure what to make of that.

20 screens/16 callbacks/12 attended, 8 offers, 2 dings and 2 pending.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: juliemccoy on October 08, 2008, 08:00:48 AM
Top 20 transfer from T50 (law review at the old law school, journal at the new law school), good grades. 20 screening interviews, 7 callbacks. Did 6 of the callbacks. 3 offers so far, 3 outstanding, no dings yet.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: thorc954 on October 08, 2008, 01:49:50 PM
DC hiring is terrible this year.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: MauveAvenger on October 08, 2008, 02:29:04 PM
Anyone want to take a stab at whether this is the job market, a glut of lawyers, or some combination of that? Think it'll be better in 3 and a half years?
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: NeverTrustKlingons on October 08, 2008, 02:44:33 PM
Things are not good.  But even if we're going to make comparisons to the Depression, it's not like that was felt evenly throughout the country.  The bottom line is that as the market for lawyers drops, there won't be as many jobs but there will probably be just as many kids who mistakenly think law school (any law school) is a golden ticket.

The caveat is that the T14 (or even moreso, HYS) graduate a very small number of lawyers in proportion to the available pool.  Even in the worst economy foreseeable, someone has to have the good legal jobs taking care of the high-paying clients.  Someone has to judge and teach.  Guess who?

Lots of T3/T4 schools are placing high percentages of students "in businesses and corporations" (see ABA data).  That doesn't mean they're at the Office of General Counsel.  ;-)  It might mean they're at a high-paying job in some cases (doubtful), but in all probability they have just spent a sizable sum on a JD for an entry-level job that they could've got with a BA/BS and a little effort.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: thorc954 on October 08, 2008, 02:51:57 PM
Anyone want to take a stab at whether this is the job market, a glut of lawyers, or some combination of that? Think it'll be better in 3 and a half years?

my bet is the economy will rebound in the next year, and, for the 2Ls now, the 3L hiring prospects will be a lot better as firms attempt to compensate for the underhiring they had done.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: thorc954 on October 08, 2008, 08:11:34 PM
I agree... but I think that not getting a summer gig anywhere is going to still keep it tough to find 3L gigs.  Some firms are going to be oversubscribed this summer, some clients will go under, some firms will not do so well, and so there will be plenty of top students job hunting for 3L year.  Also, lots of people aren't thrilled with where they're winding up this summer.  I think that it'll shake out a bit, but it won't be some some sort of job free-for-all, and people without firm gigs will be at a huge disadvantage.

definitely agree.  It will still be hard for everyone next year, but I dont think it will nearly be as hard as it was for the 3Ls this year.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: Zam on October 09, 2008, 10:41:32 AM
What do you think the fate of someone is if they have a callback, or many, and just simply haven't heard after two weeks or so?

In my personal experience offers come within a week of the callback, but I have friends who have no offers and have been waiting in purgatory for two weeks or so for any kind of response. They are primarily looking in DC and NYC. I know the market is wonky so I'm sure that's having an effect, but do you think firms are waiting to see if the market crashes? Or is it simply that the people who aren't hearing back after call backs are on waitlists/going to have a rejection eventually?
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: bearma0 on October 09, 2008, 03:32:27 PM
From what I hear, a lot of the firms are playing the 45 day window a light tighter this year.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: Zam on October 09, 2008, 03:58:56 PM
From what I hear, a lot of the firms are playing the 45 day window a light tighter this year.

What do you think this means in practice?

There are crazy rumors of firms doing odd things around my school, some of them are confirmed. (A large firm making no offers to their summer class, firms giving people offers in practice areas that are unappealing in the hopes people don't take the offer, etc.)

As for me job search wise, I have two offers out of two callbacks and 15 or so screening interviews so far. I'm not interested in primary markets like NYC, DC, etc. though.

EDIT: Sorry, I'm at a top 25 with average grades and a secondary journal.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: thorc954 on October 09, 2008, 05:18:33 PM
Zam,

For some reason the hiring process got screwed up last year.  Most firms extended the same number of offers as usual but had a higher number of people accept.  This came right before the economy got hit pretty bad.  As a result, the firms had more people summering for them than already needed and needed less people than typical.  A good number of large firms no offered people this past summer (most firms that I know of that did this no offered about 10% of their summer classes in major markets and more in smaller markets). 

I think firms learned their lessons.  The market is tight this year with the economy, so they are more likely to have people accept offers as people are less likely to get offers.  In my opinion this means that there will probably be two rounds of offers this year.  I know the first round was immediately after OCI callbacks started and the second round should be soon. I have friends that are hitting their 45 day deadlines this next week, so people should be releasing offers soon.  I would think this would mean that firms would start extending offers in two to three weeks to try to fill the rest of their classes.

Oh, and most firms dont give people offers into a specific practice area (at least from my experience and that of my friends).  They give offers to join the firm then tell you about your practice area closer to your start date when they know the need.  So, that story is probably not too accurate, although it wouldnt surprise me.  Ive heard of firms giving people offers in office they know they wont accept.  Honestly though, if you start work and they dont want you to accept, be extremely thankful they at least gave you some offer.  It is very difficult to get a job your third year with a no-offer out there.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: Zam on October 09, 2008, 05:44:11 PM
Zam,

For some reason the hiring process got screwed up last year.  Most firms extended the same number of offers as usual but had a higher number of people accept.  This came right before the economy got hit pretty bad.  As a result, the firms had more people summering for them than already needed and needed less people than typical.  A good number of large firms no offered people this past summer (most firms that I know of that did this no offered about 10% of their summer classes in major markets and more in smaller markets). 

I think firms learned their lessons.  The market is tight this year with the economy, so they are more likely to have people accept offers as people are less likely to get offers.  In my opinion this means that there will probably be two rounds of offers this year.  I know the first round was immediately after OCI callbacks started and the second round should be soon. I have friends that are hitting their 45 day deadlines this next week, so people should be releasing offers soon.  I would think this would mean that firms would start extending offers in two to three weeks to try to fill the rest of their classes.

Oh, and most firms dont give people offers into a specific practice area (at least from my experience and that of my friends).  They give offers to join the firm then tell you about your practice area closer to your start date when they know the need.  So, that story is probably not too accurate, although it wouldnt surprise me.  Ive heard of firms giving people offers in office they know they wont accept.  Honestly though, if you start work and they dont want you to accept, be extremely thankful they at least gave you some offer.  It is very difficult to get a job your third year with a no-offer out there.

Hmm, interesting, pretty much right in line with what I've seen.

The specific practice area anecdote is credited, though I should have been more specific. She is a 2008 grad who found out after taking the bar that her offer is for their tax group.

I like tax, but it's not her cup of tea at all.

EDIT: I'm very happy and grateful for the offers I have, but I am honestly avoiding telling some of my friends because I know that they are struggling and waiting for some kind of response on their callbacks.

It's definitely a rough year.

Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: thorc954 on October 09, 2008, 05:49:45 PM
hmm... yea, i had a friend (at the firm I worked at) who had that happen.  He found out after the bar he would be in a group he hated.  It is kinda risky.  Im going to a firm with a heavy focus in the group I want to be in though so I dont have to worry about that.

Yea, it is a mixed feeling 2L year.  You are happy and want to celebrate but cant because of your friends. I know the feeling.  congrats though! 
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: flyaway on October 10, 2008, 06:14:15 AM
I feel like the first half of recruiting season was easier, and the second half has slowed down.  I am wishing I had scheduled a couple of my later callbacks earlier, and vice versa.

But overall, nothing to complain about.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: nemo11 on October 20, 2008, 08:05:21 PM
T-25 transfer to T-10 (top 15%); 24 screening interviews; 15 callbacks (mostly V20); 8 attended; 7 offers; 1 cancelled.  Accepted at V10.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: daylighthasbroken on October 20, 2008, 09:36:42 PM
T10, decent grades (def in the top half, where above that I have no idea), secondary journal: 10 DC callbacks, 5 offers, 3 rejects, 2 outstanding at this point.  I'm about to call and say "it's not you, it's me" to a few of the firms I have offers at.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: daylighthasbroken on October 20, 2008, 09:50:22 PM
Are people at your school slightly unnerved by that whole offer rescinded thing or has ATL blown it out of proportion?

Some people are freaking out.  Most aren't, with the thought that any firm that would do that is a firm you might not really want to work at anyways...I'm sort of in that school.  That being said, I am working to actually finalize my decision so the summer job drama will end.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: daylighthasbroken on October 20, 2008, 09:57:04 PM
Are people at your school slightly unnerved by that whole offer rescinded thing or has ATL blown it out of proportion?

Some people are freaking out.  Most aren't, with the thought that any firm that would do that is a firm you might not really want to work at anyways...I'm sort of in that school.  That being said, I am working to actually finalize my decision so the summer job drama will end.

It's tough to actually make a decision.  So many alternate doors you need to close off.  Well best of luck to you.

Thanks.  Same to you (unless you've already decided, in which case oongrats)
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: daylighthasbroken on October 20, 2008, 10:03:40 PM

It's not really applicable to me, but thanks anyway.  ;)

oh, ok. 3L?
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: flyaway on October 21, 2008, 05:31:55 AM
Are people at your school slightly unnerved by that whole offer rescinded thing or has ATL blown it out of proportion?

I haven't noticed anyone being freaked out about it, or even talking about it.  But it did put even more pressure on me to make up my mind, which I did over the weekend.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: sternerstuff on October 21, 2008, 01:17:18 PM
For those of you w/out offers...
Ive solved our problems, or at least those of you that choose to follow. I got slammed in OCI and am pushing my grad date back a year (2011) by jumping into the dual degree program (jd/mba). So 12 months from now I effectively get another shot at that all important 2L OCI, since my grad date is the same as theirs and I can spend summer 2010 at BigLaw. Who else wants to jump deeper into debt and hit the books for another year?
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: daylighthasbroken on October 21, 2008, 08:26:39 PM
For those of you w/out offers...
Ive solved our problems, or at least those of you that choose to follow. I got slammed in OCI and am pushing my grad date back a year (2011) by jumping into the dual degree program (jd/mba). So 12 months from now I effectively get another shot at that all important 2L OCI, since my grad date is the same as theirs and I can spend summer 2010 at BigLaw. Who else wants to jump deeper into debt and hit the books for another year?

Only worth it if: A) your university has a sweet b-school too (which is, I suppose, true of much of the t14) or B) you think that things will really get much better hiring-wise by next year or that your JD/MBA will prove to be that much more of an asset (which, I suppose, is likely true if you're looking at corporate and A is also true) that you'll get that much of a better job.
Title: Re: How's the job search going?
Post by: daylighthasbroken on October 21, 2008, 08:28:36 PM
For those of you w/out offers...
Ive solved our problems, or at least those of you that choose to follow. I got slammed in OCI and am pushing my grad date back a year (2011) by jumping into the dual degree program (jd/mba). So 12 months from now I effectively get another shot at that all important 2L OCI, since my grad date is the same as theirs and I can spend summer 2010 at BigLaw. Who else wants to jump deeper into debt and hit the books for another year?

Only worth it if: A) your university has a sweet b-school too (which is, I suppose, true of much of the t14) or B) you think that things will really get much better hiring-wise by next year or that your JD/MBA will prove to be that much more of an asset (which, I suppose, is likely true if you're looking at corporate and A is also true) that you'll get that much of a better job.