Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 12:36:22 PM

Title: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 12:36:22 PM
I heard from Akron Law and they offered a full-tuition scholarship, with a 2.3 gpa requirement.

Debt is a top priority for me. I'm only 21, I don't have an income, and I'm putting myself through school without any help from the parents. At your average law school, I'll probably end up borrowing $80-90k.

However, I drove up to Akron, Ohio, and while I really find Akron an adorable city, I just don't see myself practicing law in the area, and being a T3 school, my options will probably be limited to Ohio. The economy is stagnant, and more importantly, it isn't a very appealing place to me. Ohio is not very diverse, and that's a concern of mine. Plus it won't be suitable for my family because it's so "out there".

The alternatives are other T3 schools who didn't offer money, but are in bigger and more diverse cities/states...such Houston and Charlotte...where I would love to practice.

Is it smart to take the free T3 law degree in Akron and try to find a job in Charlotte or Houston (or elsewhere)? Or is it better to bite the bullet and go $90k in debt, and go to a T3 school in the city I want to practice in, like a Houston?


Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but the area isn't appealing? Should I do it?
Post by: wiseowl on June 15, 2008, 12:50:07 PM
if it's charlotte school of law, they aren't ABA-accredited yet.  maybe the houston option?  nicer weather, good market, cheap.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but the area isn't appealing? Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 12:50:56 PM
if it's charlotte school of law, they aren't ABA-accredited yet.  maybe the houston option?  nicer weather, good market, cheap.

Actually, Charlotte just received provisional ABA accredidation last week. Check out their website. Pretty exciting news for them.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: wiseowl on June 15, 2008, 12:54:03 PM
both of us have made true statements.  yes, they're provisionally accredited, and no, there's absolutely no reason they won't reach full accreditation in 2010, but all other things being equal that would be a no-go for me.  they aren't accredited.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 01:20:45 PM
both of us have made true statements.  yes, they're provisionally accredited, and no, there's absolutely no reason they won't reach full accreditation in 2010, but all other things being equal that would be a no-go for me.  they aren't accredited.

Valid point.

I guess it comes down to this: Will I be able to find a decent job outside of Ohio when I graduate from Akron law?
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: vap on June 15, 2008, 01:41:15 PM
It's OK (not ideal) to go to a school in a state you don't want to practice in.  It's better if you have some connections to the state you want to practice in.

If you could choose one state in which you would want to practice, what is it?  Now, what states do you have a strong connection with?  Most law students graduate without a job, and you will therefore need to make an important decision about which state you would like to take the bar in.  You might as well make this decision as soon as possible because it will help you decide on a school.

All of that being said, once you pass the bar in a state, you instantly have a strong connection there (you're no longer a flight risk because  no one wants to take the bar more times than they have to).  Plus, you can work in that state during your summers.

What is Akron's curve?  If 2.3 is relatively low (50% or below), I'd go to Akron.  You're saving at least $60K compared to other schools, right?

Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 02:40:17 PM
Both of you folks have very valid points.

We have to remember that at nonelite schools like T3 schools, you'll have to work twice as hard to find a job. That's means networking. That means getting out and going to brown-bag lunches, volunteering in the community, doing the law clinics, etc. So if you're going to school in Akron, and you don't want to practice in Akron (or the surrounding area), then it's kinda hopeless, wouldn't you think?
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: vap on June 15, 2008, 03:17:41 PM
it's kinda hopeless, wouldn't you think?

Without knowing any of your particulars (see questions above), I would say take the scholarship.  Limiting your debt when graduating from a T3 is a good idea.

Hope is a state of mind.  You can work your summers in your desired location and make connections then.  If you don't have a job at graduating, you can move to your desired location and do all those sorts of things you just described to network.  If you have decent grades, are likable, pass the bar, and put in a little effort, then you will be able to find a job.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 03:47:30 PM
Without knowing any of your particulars (see questions above), I would say take the scholarship.  Limiting your debt when graduating from a T3 is a good idea.

Hope is a state of mind.  You can work your summers in your desired location and make connections then.  If you don't have a job at graduating, you can move to your desired location and do all those sorts of things you just described to network.  If you have decent grades, are likable, pass the bar, and put in a little effort, then you will be able to find a job.

If I recall correctly, I would have to be in the top 65% of the class to have the scholarship renew every year. That's not a bad deal in my opinion.

I guess I'm confused beause as everyone knows, T3 law schools are a regional game. You should go to school in the region you would want to work in. And I probably wouldn't want to live in Ohio. You are correct that I would still be able to work summers elsewhere and so on in the city of my choice, but I'm weary about how much pull an Akron law degree will have outside of the state and the Midwest. What do you think?

Sigh....tough decision... :-\



Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 04:16:58 PM
And just for the record, here are my alternatives...with tuition rates...

(T3) Michigan State - $30k/yr (part time, but could transfer)
(T4) South Texas - $29k/year
(T3) Suffolk - $40k/year (not an option. not affordable)
(--) Charlotte - $29k/year
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on June 15, 2008, 04:45:49 PM
Have you tried to leverage any of these schools with the Akron scholarship yet?
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 05:12:39 PM
Have you tried to leverage any of these schools with the Akron scholarship yet?

Great suggestion.

I did e-mail South Texas and gave them all the details. I received a phone call, and was told they basically can't offer anything now, but that 2/3 of the money they have becomes available after your first year.

Not sure how much I could leverage with Michigan State and Suffolk, since I was lucky to even make it with my stats (not even in the 25%). So hmm.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on June 15, 2008, 05:51:18 PM
Well, keep in mind that it's mid-June. They might be really looking to fill the class and might have some money open. You were admitted because they wanted you to attend. You're a commodity, regardless of what you think about yourself. So give it a shot.

Also, I'd call at this point if you're good with people. Otherwise, I guess continue with the email.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 15, 2008, 06:29:05 PM
   Hmmm...   Pick where you'd like to live the most.  Those are all very nice scholarships.  I wouldn't consider Akron's fully ride as much more significant than these other offers.  Yeah, you'll owe a bit, but as long as you find a job you should be able to pay these off fairly quickly. 

   I would be a bit sketpical of Charlotte due to how new of a school it is.  A lot of finding a job is based upon alumni networks.  Obviously, Charlotte's wouldn't be nearly as developed as say, South Texas'

Ohh no no no...LOL! Those aren't scholarships....those are the tuition rates for each school! Sorry for the confusion!  :D
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: vap on June 15, 2008, 08:24:45 PM
Without knowing any of your particulars (see questions above), I would say take the scholarship.  Limiting your debt when graduating from a T3 is a good idea.

Hope is a state of mind.  You can work your summers in your desired location and make connections then.  If you don't have a job at graduating, you can move to your desired location and do all those sorts of things you just described to network.  If you have decent grades, are likable, pass the bar, and put in a little effort, then you will be able to find a job.

If I recall correctly, I would have to be in the top 65% of the class to have the scholarship renew every year. That's not a bad deal in my opinion.

I guess I'm confused beause as everyone knows, T3 law schools are a regional game. You should go to school in the region you would want to work in. And I probably wouldn't want to live in Ohio. You are correct that I would still be able to work summers elsewhere and so on in the city of my choice, but I'm weary about how much pull an Akron law degree will have outside of the state and the Midwest. What do you think?

Sigh....tough decision... :-\

Akron will have absolutely no pull outside Ohio.  Nonetheless, I don't think South Texas' or Suffolk's locations (those are the better schools in my opinion) justify taking on an extra $90K or $120K of debt.  But, it's your money.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: Bulldog86 on June 15, 2008, 10:27:55 PM
I did e-mail South Texas and gave them all the details. I received a phone call, and was told they basically can't offer anything now, but that 2/3 of the money they have becomes available after your first year.

That raises a red flag for me. I'd want to know why that is. Does that mean that 2/3 of their scholarship recipients lose it after Year One? Or does this mean that they hold back on awarding 2/3 of their aid budget until second year? The latter makes no sense, while the former isn't exactly encouraging.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 16, 2008, 05:26:14 AM
Without knowing any of your particulars (see questions above), I would say take the scholarship.  Limiting your debt when graduating from a T3 is a good idea.

Hope is a state of mind.  You can work your summers in your desired location and make connections then.  If you don't have a job at graduating, you can move to your desired location and do all those sorts of things you just described to network.  If you have decent grades, are likable, pass the bar, and put in a little effort, then you will be able to find a job.

If I recall correctly, I would have to be in the top 65% of the class to have the scholarship renew every year. That's not a bad deal in my opinion.

I guess I'm confused beause as everyone knows, T3 law schools are a regional game. You should go to school in the region you would want to work in. And I probably wouldn't want to live in Ohio. You are correct that I would still be able to work summers elsewhere and so on in the city of my choice, but I'm weary about how much pull an Akron law degree will have outside of the state and the Midwest. What do you think?

Sigh....tough decision... :-\

Akron will have absolutely no pull outside Ohio.  Nonetheless, I don't think South Texas' or Suffolk's locations (those are the better schools in my opinion) justify taking on an extra $90K or $120K of debt.  But, it's your money.

That's pretty much the conclusion. If I can't find a decent job outside Ohio with an Akron degree, then Akron is a no go. Although you make a good point, that the alternatives (Michigan State/South Texas) aren't exactly schools you would want to graduate from with $90k in debt, given their T3/T4 status. Although Michigan State seems to be climbing and on the verge of cracking the T2. What to do???  ???


I did e-mail South Texas and gave them all the details. I received a phone call, and was told they basically can't offer anything now, but that 2/3 of the money they have becomes available after your first year.

That raises a red flag for me. I'd want to know why that is. Does that mean that 2/3 of their scholarship recipients lose it after Year One? Or does this mean that they hold back on awarding 2/3 of their aid budget until second year? The latter makes no sense, while the former isn't exactly encouraging.

It's a little bit of both. For one, South Texas has a high attrition rate for various reasons. Secondly, it's mainly because most of their scholarships are for 2Ls and 3Ls only.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: vap on June 16, 2008, 06:39:40 AM
That's pretty much the conclusion. If I can't find a decent job outside Ohio with an Akron degree, then Akron is a no go. Although you make a good point, that the alternatives (Michigan State/South Texas) aren't exactly schools you would want to graduate from with $90k in debt, given their T3/T4 status. Although Michigan State seems to be climbing and on the verge of cracking the T2. What to do???  ???

What are you calling a decent job?  What do you want to do after graduating?

There are plenty of people who go to T1 schools in their desired location, taking on tons of debt, and regretting it.  At least from Akron you can move to your desired state, take the bar, and get A job.  Maybe not the perfect job... but you probably won't get the perfect job from STCL or Michigan State.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: JeNeSaisLaw on June 16, 2008, 09:17:06 AM
Even if Michigan State climbs to T2 in the US News, it doesn't matter. It's still not worth that kind of debt (4 years, not 3, no?). A school's employment prospects aren't going to jump enough (if at all) by a move like that. Not in a few years, which is all you should be concerned with.

Here is what I would hope I would do. I say hope because I don't know if I would have the balls to make a hard decision like this when I've been working hard towards law school- nevertheless, it seems like the clear and smart answer. I would try to leverage the Akron scholarship against all the schools you're considering. Tell them you can only attend if it's more reasonably priced and closer to what you would pay at Akron. If they say no to your request, withdraw. That's simply too much money to spend when you cannot expect even a $45,000 job. I do think a little debt is ok, as long as you recognize the implications.

If leveraging doesn't work out - and go after all schools you can still attend because then you can use that for leverage too - I would either take a year off (which might turn into forever) or go to Akron and take a chance on being able to get somewhere you like in 3 years. It will take a lot of networking most likely, but make sure your summer jobs are where you'd like to live and follow the networking advice of people like Matthies (if you need a link to his profile so you can view his post history, let me know).
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: Matthies on June 16, 2008, 10:45:40 AM
Iím a real proponent of only going to school in a place you want/are willing to work afterwards. This is because I think networking is so valuable to an effective job search outside of the top schools, and because its almost impossible to network effectively in another state, especially if you have to move there and work for free 1L or possibly 2L to do so (and thus pay your own way, which you canít borrow for).

BUT, there is something to say for free law school, and there is also something to say for being a diverse lawyer in a non-diverse legal market (assuming firms there are looking to increase their diversity). I mean theoretically you could go to Akron for free, and assuming you do well, and like the law, then afterwards borrow 40k and get your LLM in one year from a school in city X and still come out cheaper than some of the other schools you listed. Who knows, you might actually end up liking Akron.

BUT whatever you do decide, stick to that decsion, don't play what if, law school can royally suck ass at times, its worse if you go in not being happy with where you are going. 
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 26, 2008, 10:51:42 PM
Update...

I called Akron's career planning department, and asked them to provide me with a list of every Akron law grad practicing in North Carolina, where I currently live. They were very helpful.

The response seems to be somewhat positive. Everyone working public sector (District Attorney, etc.) says there will be ZERO problem finding a job, and I should take the full scholarship. Small private practice lawyers had the same response, and repeatedly pointed out how helpful minimal law school debt would be. Biglaw lawyers were 50-50...the ones that were more positive had "Magna Cum Laude" next to their degrees. Other biglaw lawyers without the top grades said it would require lots of hard work. So it makes sense.

Basically, it seems like finding the biglaw job in the big city would be improbable. But small to mid sized firms would be within reach, as long as I spent my summers interning and networking back home. I was told to use my local address (where the firm is located), which would supposedly help.

Life's tough decisions. At this point, I'm leaning towards Akron, but I'm still not sure. Hmmm.... any other thoughts LSD? Help this poor young soul!  :D
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: StevePirates on June 27, 2008, 08:13:59 AM
If you choose Akron, get the Guerrilla Tactics book by Walton.  Your instincts that it will be on you to "do it yourself" out of Akron are correct.  That book is like the T3/T4 Bible.  Learn it, love it, live it. 

That being said, full ride?  #1 that's great for your debt load.  #2 always a nice bragging point in networking when people ask you why you chose your school "I liked the faculty, and was impressed by career services, and the full ride didn't hurt either."

Yes, you'll have to work a little extra to get the sort of job you want right out of school.  But, you'll also have a reasonable level of debt so that you actually can choose the sort of job you want, and not just whatever crap will pay the loan. 

The only other option I'd look at in your shoes would be Michigan State.  Yeah, it's got good upward movement.  And in four years, if it keeps its upward trend maybe it will be an even better choice, since it will have at least two more years of graduates landing firm jobs to bootstrap up the employment reputation.  BUT, it's kind of a gamble. 

Personally, I'd start loving on Ohio for the next few years.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: PaleForce on June 27, 2008, 09:37:43 AM
Personally, I don't think you can beat a full-ride with a requirement that you'll have to be in the top 65%.  I really wouldn't want to be in Ohio either, but if the options are Ohio with no debt or Boston, etc. with full tuition costs and no difference in ranking (so, theoretically, no better chance at jobs), I'd definitely go with the money.  You'll have a lot more flexibility coming out without any debt.  And, from what I've read, the school you went to is most important for your first job.  After that, it's job performance/recommendations that carry the most weight.  You could get your degree in Akron, work for two years and then move to where you and your family want to live.  You won't have to be tied to Akron for life.  Good luck with your decision and congrats on the full-ride offer!
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: vap on June 27, 2008, 03:42:15 PM
You could get your degree in Akron, work for two years and then move to where you and your family want to live.

Unless OP wants to take the bar exam again, he must practice 4 years waive in to North Carolina and 5 years to waive in to Texas.

http://www.ncbex.org/comprehensive-guide-to-bar-admissions/
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: PaleForce on June 27, 2008, 03:46:49 PM
You could get your degree in Akron, work for two years and then move to where you and your family want to live.

Unless OP wants to take the bar exam again, he must practice 4 years waive in to North Carolina and 5 years to waive in to Texas.

http://www.ncbex.org/comprehensive-guide-to-bar-admissions/

It's still a possibility.  If it were me, I think I'd rather have to sit for the bar again than stay in a place I don't want to be for an additional 2-3 years past getting some decent references/experience behind me.  But, good point on the bar requirements, I obviously didn't consider that in my response.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on June 27, 2008, 06:52:22 PM
Unless OP wants to take the bar exam again, he must practice 4 years waive in to North Carolina and 5 years to waive in to Texas.

http://www.ncbex.org/comprehensive-guide-to-bar-admissions/

One may graduate from Akron, and directly proceed to take the NC bar in lieu of the Ohio bar upon graduation, no?
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: StevePirates on June 27, 2008, 07:06:58 PM
Unless OP wants to take the bar exam again, he must practice 4 years waive in to North Carolina and 5 years to waive in to Texas.

http://www.ncbex.org/comprehensive-guide-to-bar-admissions/

One may graduate from Akron, and directly proceed to take the NC bar in lieu of the Ohio bar upon graduation, no?

Check the scholarship requirements.  Some school scholarships make you take their states bar exam. But there's no reason you can't take two bar exams.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: PaleForce on June 27, 2008, 07:12:12 PM
Unless OP wants to take the bar exam again, he must practice 4 years waive in to North Carolina and 5 years to waive in to Texas.

http://www.ncbex.org/comprehensive-guide-to-bar-admissions/

One may graduate from Akron, and directly proceed to take the NC bar in lieu of the Ohio bar upon graduation, no?

After checking out what StevePirates mentioned, you can definitely do that:

SECTION .0700 - EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS
.0701 GENERAL EDUCATION
Each applicant must have satisfactorily completed the academic work required for admission to a law school approved by the Council of the North Carolina State Bar.
.0702 LEGAL EDUCATION
Every applicant applying for admission to practice law in the State of North Carolina, before being granted a license to practice law, shall prove to the satisfaction of the Board that said applicant has graduated from a law school approved by the Council of The North Carolina State Bar or that said applicant will graduate within thirty (30) days after the date of the written bar examination from a law school approved by the Council of the North Carolina State Bar. There shall be filed with the Secretary a certificate of the dean, or other proper official of said law school, certifying the date of the applicant's graduation. A list of the approved law schools is available in the office of the Secretary.

from the NC Board of Legal Education: http://www.ncble.org/

Have you decided which way you're going to go?

EDIT: it says nothing about having to graduate from a NC LS.  Just that you must graduate from an approved LS- I would be willing to bet that that means any school accredited or provisionally accredited by the ABA, but you'll definitely want to call the NCBLE so you're certain!
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: kenpostudent on June 30, 2008, 12:29:33 AM
And just for the record, here are my alternatives...with tuition rates...

(T3) Michigan State - $30k/yr (part time, but could transfer)
(T4) South Texas - $29k/year
(T3) Suffolk - $40k/year (not an option. not affordable)
(--) Charlotte - $29k/year


Pick a school where you plan to practice law. Unless you can find a legal market that does not care where you attended school (Las Vegas is the only one I know of). There is a huge debate over prestige vs money. Honestly, where you go to law school is irrelevant if you don't plan to work for BigLaw. Your clients will never ask you where you went to school and most wouldn't know the difference if you told them. Only BigLaw recruiters care because they are innundated with applications from Harvard and Yale grads. They have no incentive but to take the best.

If you attend a T3/T4 school, it is true that your degree will not travel well, though until you get experience. Once you have three or four years of practice under your belt, it won't matter where you went to school as you will rise and fall on your experience. It is best, though, to attend a school where you plan to practice if you are not attending a T14 school. In this way, you can get interships at firms that you wish to apply to upon graduation. I would take a full scholarship if it were offered. You can always cut your teeth in that market and move when you have more experience. You would only have to take another bar.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: Clayton on June 30, 2008, 10:37:29 AM
Go to Akron.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on July 05, 2008, 08:05:46 PM
Update..

I sent in my seat deposit at Akron...although, to be honest, I'm still not 100% sold on the idea. I'm interested in the fields of public interest, refugees, and Int'l human rights law, so Akron, Ohio is probably not the place to be to pursue this field, eh? I'm still waiting to hear back from CUNY, which I think would be a better fit, being in New York and having a decent public-interest and immigration focus. (Various issues with the application process delayed the process, but supposedly I will be hearing back soon). So I might decide to head to New York since it fits my interests a little better...that is, if I get in. Hopefully soon, I mean holy crap, it's July. Blah. How miserable. Akron is just...so out there...I'm even thinking about taking the free tuition for a year and then transferring to a more competitive school, but obviously that's a big gamble to take and an unwise thing to do.

AHHH!!  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: Clayton on July 06, 2008, 08:55:22 AM
I dont think CUNY would be a wise choice.


New York has 15 law schools, with most of them being better than CUNY. Getting a job post graduation would be considerably more difficult than Akron. 
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: vap on July 06, 2008, 09:21:39 AM
I'm interested in the fields of public interest, refugees, and Int'l human rights law, so Akron, Ohio is probably not the place to be to pursue this field, eh?

Those are some good long-term goals, but those types of jobs are competitive even for T14 grads.  There are a lot of people out there who want to "save the world."

Do you speak any foreign languages?  If not, get crackin.  Spanish and Mandarin Chinese are good options.

It probably wouldn't be too difficult for you to go to school free and get a job with a non-profit that works with Spanish-speaking immigrants.  But I'm not talking about big lofty issues.  I'm talking about helping someone get paid for work they've done and been exploited for, helping someone fight their slum landlord for repairs to an apartment, drafting a will, and/or explaining the process for legal citizenship, etc.  Most cities in Texas have criminal appointments rather than public defenders, so you could help individual legal and illegal immigrants deal with the criminal system and possible deportation process.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: big - fat - box on July 06, 2008, 12:50:34 PM
My advice to the OP would be to not go to law school this year. You're 21, and no offense, but you don't sound like you are making an informed / wise decision here.

Get a job, get out in the world. Join the Peace Corps, or Americorps (I did this for 2 years - full time - before l.s.) or the some other Volunteer Corps or volunteer in your spare time if you want to help people and get a feel for public interest / public service work.

Although these schools may not allow you to defer, I think you should pass up their admissions offers this year anyway. Admission standards for these schools will not be that much different in 1-2 years, that I can virtually guarantee you. Plus, a little bit of work experience can never hurt your application when you reapply. Oh, if you really want to work in NC, thing about applying to NCCU next time around - I know in-state is very cheap there.

Int'l Human Rights Law is a foolish pipe dream for most law students. Odds are you will not end up there even if you attend a top 5 law school and get good grades. Local public interest or some type of immigration work is far more realistic. If you really want to do anything like this I agree a foreign language can be very helpful. Your best bet is to become proficient before setting foot in law school.

Do not bank on transferring after 1L. Odds are you won't be able to do it. If you aren't happy with your choices, you need to retake the LSAT and get a higher score.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on July 06, 2008, 03:02:44 PM
Interesting interesting advice.

Some people asked about my work experience and background.....

I've managed small businesses my entire life and throughout high school and college, I was a math teacher, a field director on a state political campaign, interned at the Defense Department, and I speak 3 languages.

I definitely don't need to take time off before law school for the sake of getting "out there". I've been out there and I know why I'm going to law school. So that's not the issue. I will say, though, that I have seriously thought about the Peace Corps, and I still dream about doing it. Although, let's be honest, I also have regular dreams about going to Med school and saving the world, so ha... Sure, chances are I won't be an Int'l Human Rights lawyer, and that's fine. But there's plenty a need for lawyers in the areas vap mentioned. So no worries.

I've also toyed with the idea of taking a year off and trying the LSAT again and trying for a top 25 school...but I've taken it twice already, and I got the same score. I didn't mention this before, but I did get into some T2 private schools (Wake, American,etc), but I didn't list them as options because of the $40k+ tuition, so I didn't see the point of it. (I listed Suffolk because I'm in love with Boston.) I will say, if any of these were top 25, then I'd definitely go, no matter how expensive they were, and even if they didn't give a penny. But anyways, I don't think taking the lsat a third time will do much good. So eh.

At this point, I simply need to figure out which of these schools make the most sense.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on July 06, 2008, 03:09:03 PM
I'm talking about helping someone get paid for work they've done and been exploited for, helping someone fight their slum landlord for repairs to an apartment, drafting a will, and/or explaining the process for legal citizenship, etc.  Most cities in Texas have criminal appointments rather than public defenders, so you could help individual legal and illegal immigrants deal with the criminal system and possible deportation process.

That, right there, is the lawyer I want to be. You hit the nail on the head.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: dangle on July 06, 2008, 03:47:46 PM

However, I drove up to Akron, Ohio, and while I really find Akron an adorable city, I just don't see myself practicing law in the area, and being a T3 school, my options will probably be limited to Ohio. The economy is stagnant, and more importantly, it isn't a very appealing place to me. Ohio is not very diverse, and that's a concern of mine. Plus it won't be suitable for my family because it's so "out there".

The alternatives are other T3 schools who didn't offer money, but are in bigger and more diverse cities/states...such Houston and Charlotte...where I would love to practice.

Is it smart to take the free T3 law degree in Akron and try to find a job in Charlotte or Houston (or elsewhere)? Or is it better to bite the bullet and go $90k in debt, and go to a T3 school in the city I want to practice in, like a Houston?
akron is not an adorable city, it sucks. 
ohio is not really diverse, but akron and northeast ohio are fairly diverse. 
ohio's economy is stagnant (you're right), and there are no jobs coming out of akron law, or other ohio law schools (except for OSU and Case)
your alternatives suck.
no it's not smart for you to go to akron.
 
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on July 06, 2008, 03:49:55 PM

However, I drove up to Akron, Ohio, and while I really find Akron an adorable city, I just don't see myself practicing law in the area, and being a T3 school, my options will probably be limited to Ohio. The economy is stagnant, and more importantly, it isn't a very appealing place to me. Ohio is not very diverse, and that's a concern of mine. Plus it won't be suitable for my family because it's so "out there".

The alternatives are other T3 schools who didn't offer money, but are in bigger and more diverse cities/states...such Houston and Charlotte...where I would love to practice.

Is it smart to take the free T3 law degree in Akron and try to find a job in Charlotte or Houston (or elsewhere)? Or is it better to bite the bullet and go $90k in debt, and go to a T3 school in the city I want to practice in, like a Houston?
akron is not an adorable city, it sucks. 
ohio is not really diverse, but akron and northeast ohio are fairly diverse. 
ohio's economy is stagnant (you're right), and there are no jobs coming out of akron law, or other ohio law schools (except for OSU and Case)
your alternatives suck.
no it's not smart for you to go to akron.
 

This is precisely why I love LSD.  :D
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: dangle on July 06, 2008, 03:59:16 PM
i'm a recent akron grad.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on July 06, 2008, 04:20:28 PM
i'm a recent akron grad.

You sir, are qualified to speak on this topic.

Tell me about yourself.

Where are you from? Why did you go to Akron? How did you do in school? What did you want to do? What are you doing now?

Please do share! I would love to hear your story.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: dangle on July 06, 2008, 04:40:48 PM
i'm a recent akron grad.

You sir, are qualified to speak on this topic.

Tell me about yourself.

Where are you from? Why did you go to Akron? How did you do in school? What did you want to do? What are you doing now?

Please do share! I would love to hear your story.

from ohio, went to akron because I didn't get into osu and didn't want to pay for case, wanted to practice law in a meaningful way, i graduated in the top 15%
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on July 06, 2008, 04:45:59 PM
from ohio, went to akron because I didn't get into osu and didn't want to pay for case, wanted to practice law in a meaningful way, i graduated in the top 15%

Why did you go to law school, and what are you doing now?
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: dangle on July 06, 2008, 04:56:59 PM
from ohio, went to akron because I didn't get into osu and didn't want to pay for case, wanted to practice law in a meaningful way, i graduated in the top 15%

Why did you go to law school, and what are you doing now?

i will email you, i see you posted your email.

edit:  email sent.  pls keep info confidential. 
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: big - fat - box on July 06, 2008, 05:55:19 PM
I thought you were 21 and had no income? Surely those small businesses, the political campaign and that math teaching must have given you some income?

Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's just that I have a tough time believing most people at age 21 with no post-college work experience are ready for law school.

Especially at a low ranked school (I went to a low ranked school for year before transferring - I know what it's like) where the deck is stacked against you. AND if you don't do well at one of those low ranked schools you are going to find out just how hard it is out there.

None of those schools are good choices without a guaranteed, unconditional scholarship or some kind of in-state tuition discount. Yes, I'm aware that 3 of those schools are private, but this goes for any school of this type.

A year or two of post-grad work experience won't kill you, and in fact, it will probably do you some good.

As for the LSAT, you wouldn't be the first person to take it three times. I'm sure the people on the LSAT board could advise you alternate methods of prep next time if you decide to take it again.




Interesting interesting advice.

Some people asked about my work experience and background.....

I've managed small businesses my entire life and throughout high school and college, I was a math teacher, a field director on a state political campaign, interned at the Defense Department, and I speak 3 languages.

I definitely don't need to take time off before law school for the sake of getting "out there". I've been out there and I know why I'm going to law school. So that's not the issue. I will say, though, that I have seriously thought about the Peace Corps, and I still dream about doing it. Although, let's be honest, I also have regular dreams about going to Med school and saving the world, so ha... Sure, chances are I won't be an Int'l Human Rights lawyer, and that's fine. But there's plenty a need for lawyers in the areas vap mentioned. So no worries.

I've also toyed with the idea of taking a year off and trying the LSAT again and trying for a top school...but I've taken it twice already, and I got the same score. I don't think taking it a third time will do much good.

At this point, I simply need to figure out which of these schools make the most sense.



Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: baileypicks24 on July 06, 2008, 06:20:57 PM
I thought you were 21 and had no income? Surely those small businesses, the political campaign and that math teaching must have given you some income?

Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's just that I have a tough time believing most people at age 21 with no post-college work experience are ready for law school.

Especially at a low ranked school (I went to a low ranked school for year before transferring - I know what it's like) where the deck is stacked against you. AND if you don't do well at one of those low ranked schools you are going to find out just how hard it is out there.

None of those schools are good choices without a guaranteed, unconditional scholarship or some kind of in-state tuition discount. Yes, I'm aware that 3 of those schools are private, but this goes for any school of this type.

A year or two of post-grad work experience won't kill you, and in fact, it will probably do you some good.

As for the LSAT, you wouldn't be the first person to take it three times. I'm sure the people on the LSAT board could advise you alternate methods of prep next time if you decide to take it again.

If teaching and politics were highly-compensated occupations, I think I'd still be doing it! :D And when it comes to small businesses owned and operated by family...it really isn't about the money, as it is trying to make enough for your family to get by. Point being I'm not rolling in money here by any means.

with no post-college work experience

Do you have reading issues? I'm a former Math teacher and Political Field Director, and I'm currently managing a hotel. It's ok, some people start school at an early age, graduate early and enter the work force at a young age. It happens. It's ok.

Nonetheless, I don't think it's bad advice for anyone to do something like the Peace Corps for a year or two and take the LSAT again, and try to get into a higher-ranked school. I'm certainly considering it.
Title: Re: Full Scholarship...but I don't want to practice law there. Should I do it?
Post by: Clayton on July 06, 2008, 07:34:59 PM
Still considering CUNY? because I noticed my post is gone.