Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: TruOne on May 18, 2008, 08:09:26 PM

Title: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on May 18, 2008, 08:09:26 PM
Shout out to 2Lacoste & Burning Sands,



So for those of us working this summer. What has your experience been like so far? If you could say anything to your new coworkers/employers what would it be?

Me?

"Dear Paralegals and various Administrative Assistants,

While I recognize that there is only one other Black man in this entire office, and therefore you are not used to seeing us   in such proximity, would it be too much to ask that you don't JUMP BACK so visibly startled whenever you walk around the corner and see me?

kthxbye!"

-

"Dear Black man arrested for breaking into Three different Offices after-dark,

You f-in' it up for the rest of us, right? You do know they E-MAIL a picture of your mugshot around the entire building, right? You do know that with a shaved head they can't tell about 85% of us apart. Next time you choose to break the law and scare white people, can you NOT do it in my building?

kthxbye!"
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: CamelMan on May 18, 2008, 08:35:10 PM
tag
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on June 02, 2008, 10:18:24 PM
From NYU Career Services (some of these are lame, but others are hilarious):

VIII. Real World Examples of Career Limiting Behavior:

A. Unimpressed with the quality of the wine being served at the summer welcome dinner, summer associate orders a special bottle of wine. To make matters worse, summer associate charges the wine to the firm.
B. Summer associate complains about having a windowless office and then claims to have been "promised" a window during the interview process.
C. Summer associate is criticized for filing motion without attachments . . . summer associate blames the secretary.
D. Summer associate shows up at all firm events involving food, and is so busy eating that they fail to socialize with anyone else.
E. Summer associate makes typographical errors in memoranda.
F. Summer associate paints their toenails in the office, assuming 10 p.m. is "her own time".
G. Summer associate refuses to work past 7:00 p.m. or on weekends.
H. Summer associate sleeps 12 hours a day during the firm's three-day sailing trip.
I. Summer associate fails to Shepardize.
J. Summer associate yells at support staff.
K. Summer associate misses a deadline.
L. Summer associate makes up citation to support the position he/she is trying to prove in a brief filed with the court (resulting in immediate termination and letter to Board of Professional Responsibility).
M. Wishing to play on the firm's ice hockey team, summer associate loudly and persistently discusses their skill as a high school hockey player and claims that he would easily be the best player on the ice. The senior associate who organizes the team is a former NHL player.
N. Summer associate decides to give client legal advice without the express permission of supervising attorney.
O. Summer associate refuses to make edits to a draft brief because "I was an English major in college and I know your edits are incorrect."
P. Summer associate engages in public display of affection with co-clerk in library.
Q. Summer associate turns in a research project that did not answer the question assigned.
R. Summer associate throws up after a firm cocktail party as a result of excess consumption of alcohol.
S. Summer associate visits Internet porn sites at the office.
T. Summer associate forwards a sexist joke to several attorneys at the firm.
U. Summer associate has loud, crass personal conversations regularly from office phone.
V. Summer associate plagiarizes paragraph in memorandum from hornbook.
W. Summer associate is not available to stay late to assist in closing in order to have drinks as planned with other summer associates.
X. Summer associate falls asleep at negotiation session in conference room.
Y. Summer associate removes several attorneys' phones for an afternoon as a practical joke.
Z. Summer associate takes a significant amount of office supplies (including 10-12 notebooks) home for personal use.
AA. Summer associate organizes summer associate outing to strip club and bills firm.
BB. Summer associate plucks flowers from flowerpot in firm's lobby.
CC. Summer associate asks printer to create 500 copies of bound document instead of 50 after mishearing directions from partner.
DD. Summer associate trash talks an associate in public area in law firm.
EE. Summer associate berates female partner for her lack of skill at firm softball event.
FF. Summer associate tells a partner that the way he is trying to make a fire during a firm canoe trip is "dumb"; same summer associate, later on the canoe trip, goes skinny dipping with senior associate.
GG. Summer associate uses lunch budget for personal grooming, including a manicure/pedicure.
HH. Summer associate extends disingenuous lunch invite to attorney in order to dine at an expensive restaurant.
II. Summer associate is participating on a conference call with a partner. At 6:45 p.m., summer associate points to their watch, whispers "I have concert tickets," and leaves the room.
JJ. Summer associate receives an e-mail from a senior associate, sent to the whole summer class, requesting a volunteer to help with an assignment. Summer associate promptly e-mails the senior associate back, informing senior associate that he is busy, but so-and-so (another summer associate) should have some time and can help out.
KK. Summer associate says to a British-trained senior associate "I don't know where you went to law school, but in America summer associates get more sophisticated work assignments".
LL. Summer associate proudly informs one senior associate that upon the receipt of an offer of permanent employment, she would only work with two members of the department and be the "go-to" person for them because she doesn't really enjoy working with anyone else.

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/06/how_not_to_succeed_as_a_summer.php
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 03, 2008, 08:18:42 AM
My personal favorite picks:


A. Unimpressed with the quality of the wine being served at the summer welcome dinner, summer associate orders a special bottle of wine. To make matters worse, summer associate charges the wine to the firm.

G. Summer associate refuses to work past 7:00 p.m. or on weekends.

Are you fukkin serious?!?!?


L. Summer associate makes up citation to support the position he/she is trying to prove in a brief filed with the court (resulting in immediate termination and letter to Board of Professional Responsibility).

Are you fukkin serious TWO TIMES?!?!?!?  That kid needs to be slapped.



Q. Summer associate turns in a research project that did not answer the question assigned.

R. Summer associate throws up after a firm cocktail party as a result of excess consumption of alcohol.

S. Summer associate visits Internet porn sites at the office.

V. Summer associate plagiarizes paragraph in memorandum from hornbook.

AA. Summer associate organizes summer associate outing to strip club and bills firm.

II. Summer associate is participating on a conference call with a partner. At 6:45 p.m., summer associate points to their watch, whispers "I have concert tickets," and leaves the room.


LL. Summer associate proudly informs one senior associate that upon the receipt of an offer of permanent employment, she would only work with two members of the department and be the "go-to" person for them because she doesn't really enjoy working with anyone else.

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/06/how_not_to_succeed_as_a_summer.php



Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 04, 2008, 07:17:30 AM
From NYU Career Services (some of these are lame, but others are hilarious):

VIII. Real World Examples of Career Limiting Behavior:

B. Summer associate complains about having a windowless office and then claims to have been "promised" a window during the interview process.

That's a deal breaker for sure.
Quote
F. Summer associate paints their toenails in the office, assuming 10 p.m. is "her own time".

 Call me spoiled or whatever, by why the hell is a Summer Associate working on something in the office until 10:00PM?

Quote
O. Summer associate refuses to make edits to a draft brief because "I was an English major in college and I know your edits are incorrect."

Hey, us English Majors are very protective of our work. We put our blood sweat and tears into every comma, period, and quotation mark we write. We'll fight over a sentence, whether we are right or not.
Quote
Y. Summer associate removes several attorneys' phones for an afternoon as a practical joke.

Ok, now this can get yer A$$ beat no matter what size firm. The Phone is the Money-maker. You mess with that you mess with the Firm's ability to generate revenue. Who knows what new business was trying to call the Office while that idiot was holding the phones hostages.

Quote
FF. Summer associate tells a partner that the way he is trying to make a fire during a firm canoe trip is "dumb"; same summer associate, later on the canoe trip, goes skinny dipping with senior associate.

Now this was funny. I would LOVE to know the genders of both the Summer & Senior Associate.

Quote
KK. Summer associate says to a British-trained senior associate "I don't know where you went to law school, but in America summer associates get more sophisticated work assignments".

9/11 changed everything. Al Qeada has been known to operate in Great Britian.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 05, 2008, 11:33:08 AM
These summers are like work eating machines. You just keep feeing them things to do and they just keep doing it.  I love it.

Quick story - myself and another first year associate are working on a motion to dismiss. There are literally close to a dozen claims we're trying to dismiss in this thing.  The lead attorney on the case has to go out of the office on business for a few days and leaves us behind to work on the motion which is to be completed by the time they get back. So we're out at some spot in midtown having a few drinks talking about the case and all the legal research that has to be done on this thing in addition to everything else we have going on, and then it dawns on us....

...WE HAVE SUMMERS!!!!!!!  America....F#@K YEAH!!!!!!


So right then and there in the middle of the bar we whip out the blackberries and start shooting emails to HR, and before we leave we have two summers assigned to meet with us the following morning ready to talk about what we need them to do.

They're like lexisnexis and westlaw machines, man.  They eat that stuff up.  Just point 'em in a direction and they're like  "go go gadget brain."   A few hours later you have all your research done and explained to you in a neat little memo.

Can I just say that I love summers?

Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on June 05, 2008, 11:39:17 AM
lol that sounds great...kinda like having the first-year editors on law review.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 05, 2008, 01:57:39 PM
lol that sounds great...kinda like having the first-year editors on law review.

Exactly.  But even better because they do more than blue booking.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 11, 2008, 06:45:55 AM
lol that sounds great...kinda like having the first-year editors on law review.

Exactly.  But even better because they do more than blue booking.


and actually get paid for it!
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: non parata est on June 11, 2008, 07:26:48 AM
Hey, us English Majors are very protective of our work.

Shouldn't it be "We English Majors?"
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 11, 2008, 07:52:17 AM
Hey, us English Majors are very protective of our work.

Shouldn't it be "We English Majors?"


Ha.  . . .Ha . . . .

Here's an idea:

When you actually have taken a SINGLE law school course, then come back on the boards and correct me. Until then, go back to your "Planet 1L" and "Getting to Maybe"
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: non parata est on June 11, 2008, 08:31:50 AM
Hey, us English Majors are very protective of our work.

Shouldn't it be "We English Majors?"


Ha.  . . .Ha . . . .

Here's an idea:

When you actually have taken a SINGLE law school course, then come back on the boards and correct me. Until then, go back to your "Planet 1L" and "Getting to Maybe"

I'm sorry, was I incorrect?  If so, please educate me.  I'm always open to criticism - you know, the kind where someone points out a flaw in your work, rather than assuming that you must be wrong because of your age.

I can also take a joke.  I suggest you learn to do the same.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 11, 2008, 08:48:32 AM
LOL

Now now, kids...
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 11, 2008, 11:34:39 AM
Should I feel guilty for signing up for the big Job Fair that is happening at the end of the summer?


I kinda feeling like I'm in a relationship with my firm, but I'm steppin' out behind its back to go holla at some other firms that got bigger. . . .offices.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: dsetterl on June 11, 2008, 11:46:58 AM
Why would you feel guilty? They aren't your girlfriend, don't treat them like one.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 11, 2008, 11:49:53 AM
Should I feel guilty for signing up for the big Job Fair that is happening at the end of the summer?


I kinda feeling like I'm in a relationship with my firm, but I'm steppin' out behind its back to go holla at some other firms that got bigger. . . .offices.

that's how the game is played
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 11, 2008, 11:51:15 AM
Why would you feel guilty? They aren't your girlfriend, don't treat them like one.

I know, I know, but my Firm has been through a lot of bad situations with other interns, its really gotten its feelings and AMLaw ratings hurt. I want to prove that I'm not just "that kinda guy" that will just love'em and leave'em.


sigh. . .

  ::queues up Usher's "You make me wanna. . ."::
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on June 11, 2008, 11:56:58 AM
Never put your heart into it.  They'd screw you if it were were economically expedient.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Saucony Jazz on June 11, 2008, 12:10:46 PM
Why would you feel guilty? They aren't your girlfriend, don't treat them like one.

lol...
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: pikey on June 11, 2008, 12:42:37 PM
Never put your heart into it.  They'd screw you if it were were economically expedient.

Titcr.  I was feeling kinda guilty when I left my previous job for law school, than I realised that they would drop me in a heartbeat if it was in their best interest.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 11, 2008, 12:59:08 PM
That is the truth. This is business, son.  Even 7th year associates can get laid off if it helps the firm's bottom line.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: JDat45 on November 28, 2008, 09:40:15 PM
Hey, us English Majors are very protective of our work.

Shouldn't it be "We English Majors?"

Well damn :P
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: JDat45 on November 28, 2008, 09:46:26 PM
Hey, us English Majors are very protective of our work.

Shouldn't it be "We English Majors?"


Ha.  . . .Ha . . . .

Here's an idea:

When you actually have taken a SINGLE law school course, then come back on the boards and correct me. Until then, go back to your "Planet 1L" and "Getting to Maybe"


Aw hayle....
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: JDat45 on November 28, 2008, 09:49:46 PM
What do "Summers" usually get paid weekly...I'm guessing $1.5K and up, right? LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on November 29, 2008, 03:35:35 AM
$3100 if you go to a good school.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: JDat45 on November 29, 2008, 05:18:05 AM
$3100 if you go to a good school.

$3100 weekly? :o

But isn't that unrealistic? Does the average person start out at the $165K mark upon graduation? NOT THAT I'M COMPLAINING!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Papa Bear on November 29, 2008, 05:24:10 AM
$3100 if you go to a good school.

$500-$750/wk for the less exalted.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on November 29, 2008, 05:35:16 AM
$3100 if you go to a good school.

$3100 weekly? :o

But isn't that unrealistic? Does the average person start out at the $165K mark upon graduation? NOT THAT I'M COMPLAINING!!!!! ;D

Again, depends on the school.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: JDat45 on November 29, 2008, 06:39:22 AM
$3100 if you go to a good school.

$500-$750/wk for the less exalted.


Um, no....unless it was only a few hours a day. :P
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Papa Bear on November 29, 2008, 07:02:04 AM
$3100 if you go to a good school.

$500-$750/wk for the less exalted.


Um, no....unless it was only a few hours a day. :P

We're talking about summer between 2L & 3L, right?  If we are, the high numbers are realistic for only the upper echelon, the well-connected, and maybe a few people who are very highly motivated despite their average grades/school. Run-of-the-mill 2L summer positions - the ones most law students have and don't talk much about - pay $15-20/hr maybe with some regional variance.  After taxes/ss, they clear $500-$750/wk or so for fulltime work.   Students outside of the very best schools and without excellent connections should not count on making much more; very few of them will.  Of course, that doesn't mean that it's impossible and that you shouldn't try.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: JDat45 on November 29, 2008, 07:32:35 AM
$3100 if you go to a good school.

$500-$750/wk for the less exalted.


Um, no....unless it was only a few hours a day. :P

We're talking about summer between 2L & 3L, right?  If we are, the high numbers are realistic for only the upper echelon, the well-connected, and maybe a few people who are very highly motivated despite their average grades/school. Run-of-the-mill 2L summer positions - the ones most law students have and don't talk much about - pay $15-20/hr maybe with some regional variance.  After taxes/ss, they clear $500-$750/wk or so for fulltime work.   Students outside of the very best schools and without excellent connections should not count on making much more; very few of them will.  Of course, that doesn't mean that it's impossible and that you shouldn't try.

Wow at the disparity, but ok, thanks for the info. ;)
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 30, 2008, 10:48:28 AM
$3100 if you go to a good school.

$500-$750/wk for the less exalted.


Um, no....unless it was only a few hours a day. :P

We're talking about summer between 2L & 3L, right?  If we are, the high numbers are realistic for only the upper echelon, the well-connected, and maybe a few people who are very highly motivated despite their average grades/school. Run-of-the-mill 2L summer positions - the ones most law students have and don't talk much about - pay $15-20/hr maybe with some regional variance.  After taxes/ss, they clear $500-$750/wk or so for fulltime work.   Students outside of the very best schools and without excellent connections should not count on making much more; very few of them will.  Of course, that doesn't mean that it's impossible and that you shouldn't try.

Wow at the disparity, but ok, thanks for the info. ;)

I'll add that the standard is $3100/wk depending upon the CITY.  School and grades obviously play a part as well.

If, for example, you go to top notch Wash U in St. Louis and go to work for the best firms in Missouri the standard market rate is $2100/wk.

In the larger cities (NY, Chi, LA, SF) the same firm pays $3100/wk.

But understand that when we had a good economy, only 25% of all law students across the country were actually selected to work for big market rate firms.  The other 75% were not. With today's economy, who knows that figure looks like now. 

I don't know a single law firm, even here in NYC, that didn't decrease their summer intern pool significantly for next year....so I'd guess that the 25% figure is more like 15% for the class of '09 and beyond...at least until the economy is turned around anyway.







Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on May 26, 2009, 08:59:07 PM
started work today...exciting but still nerve wracking.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: AgreeToDisagree on May 26, 2009, 09:12:49 PM
Congrats.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on May 27, 2009, 03:32:59 AM
Any real work going around?  What's the lunch limit?
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on May 27, 2009, 07:01:40 PM
Any real work going around?  What's the lunch limit?

i dunno about "real" work...my first assignment is a survey.

lunch limit is (i think) $60 per person, once a week.  i don't know how much movement there is with that though.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on May 27, 2009, 07:15:48 PM
Well, ITE, I'd say that's pretty good :)
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Top Cat on May 28, 2009, 06:13:15 AM
I stumbled across this thread, and I think it is a really good one.  For those of you who have been through the summer associate process, could you describe it?  I understand that there is a lot of doc review and research, but what kind of hours did you keep?  How were you treated?  If offered a job, how was it offered?  How did you find out you had the summer job in the first place?  Any insight would be very helpful.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on May 28, 2009, 03:11:11 PM
Doc review as a summer?  I should hope not...run away from that job.

2Ls get the jobs typically through on-campus interviews.  1Ls typically blanket firms with resumes and participate in a limited OCI.

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on May 28, 2009, 05:59:08 PM

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.


titcr
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on May 28, 2009, 06:04:07 PM
I stumbled across this thread, and I think it is a really good one.  For those of you who have been through the summer associate process, could you describe it?

It is Summer Camp at a Law firm. The purpose of the Summer Associate program is to lull you into a false sense of confidence by making you think that the law firm actually CARES about your development as a lawyer and doesn't simply see you as a profit-making robot.


Quote
I understand that there is a lot of doc review and research
Doc review comes when you are a First Year Associate. You do more substantive research during Summer Camp

Quote
, but what kind of hours did you keep?
Just do what everybody on your floor does. If nobody is in the office before 10:00, then don't show up at 8, expecting to gain brownie points.

Quote
How were you treated?
Wined and dined. Went to partners' houses and played poker and Guitar Hero. One partner invited us to his lake house and let me drive his speed boat!

Quote
How did you find out you had the summer job in the first place?
They called me with the job offer.

 
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 04, 2009, 10:38:12 AM
Doc review as a summer?  I should hope not...run away from that job.

2Ls get the jobs typically through on-campus interviews.  1Ls typically blanket firms with resumes and participate in a limited OCI.

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.



No doubt, if I had to do doc review as a summer associate I would have contemplated jumping out the window or something.

I'm just glad to see that summer associates even still EXIST in this economy.    Sheesh.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 04, 2009, 06:37:09 PM
Doc review as a summer?  I should hope not...run away from that job.

2Ls get the jobs typically through on-campus interviews.  1Ls typically blanket firms with resumes and participate in a limited OCI.

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.



No doubt, if I had to do doc review as a summer associate I would have contemplated jumping out the window or something.

I'm just glad to see that summer associates even still EXIST in this economy.    Sheesh.

When you got there as a 1L, what were your typical assignments?

How different was your first 6 months comapred to when you were a SA?
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 04, 2009, 07:09:40 PM
Doc review as a summer?  I should hope not...run away from that job.

2Ls get the jobs typically through on-campus interviews.  1Ls typically blanket firms with resumes and participate in a limited OCI.

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.



No doubt, if I had to do doc review as a summer associate I would have contemplated jumping out the window or something.

I'm just glad to see that summer associates even still EXIST in this economy.    Sheesh.

When you got there as a 1L, what were your typical assignments?

How different was your first 6 months comapred to when you were a SA?


Aw man, like almost night and day damn near.

We give summer associates stuff like research memo's and other short term stuff that they can complete within a few days or weeks.  When you become an associate you become part of cases (or deals on the transaction side) that last for many months, sometimes years.  Plus there's a noticeable attitude difference I think.  As a summer associate, nobody expects you to know anything.  Everybody's all smiles and "hey no problem's"  and "it's ok's" and what not.  When you are an Associate people expect you to know some sh!t, meet deadlines, utilize resources, be available on blackberry 24/7, etc.  In other words, they treat you like a professional.


As far as assignments for summer associates, like I said, mostly legal research memo's, maybe get to participate in a legal paper for a publication, sit in on a few depositions or something like that, maybe shadow one of the partners to court, etc.  It's mostly (at least it used to be, i dunno what it is anymore) a lot of drinking at happy hours, free lunches at the most famous and expensive restaurants in NYC, broadway shows, boat cruises, Yankee's games, etc.

I remember last year when I gave out my first summer associate research assignment.  Ahhh, memories.  I was sitting in my office dealing with some case that some partner had just kicked down to me, and I remember thinking to myself, I'm gonna have to do a couple day of research on this one point to find out - wait a minute, WE HAVE SUMMERS!!!  YES!! 

[picks up phone] "Hey summer coordinator, I need a summer associate in my office for a research memo."
"We'll send one right over."
"Great, thanks."

[in walks summer associate] "Mr. Sands they said you wanted to see me."
"Yes, sit down. I see you brought a pad & pen with you.  Good.  Here's what I need you to do..."

[Sands grins evil grin upon realizing that, for the next 10 weeks, he no longer has to search lexis or westlaw]


Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: A. on June 05, 2009, 05:27:45 AM
[in walks summer associate] "Mr. Sands they said you wanted to see me."
"Yes, sit down. I see you brought a pad & pen with you.  Good.  Here's what I need you to do..."

[Sands grins evil grin upon realizing that, for the next 10 weeks, he no longer has to search lexis or westlaw]


 :D
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 08, 2009, 10:09:12 AM
[picks up phone] "Hey summer coordinator, I need a summer associate in my office for a research memo."
"We'll send one right over."
"Great, thanks."

[in walks summer associate] "Mr. Sands they said you wanted to see me."
"Yes, sit down. I see you brought a pad & pen with you.  Good.  Here's what I need you to do..."

[Sands grins evil grin upon realizing that, for the next 10 weeks, he no longer has to search lexis or westlaw]


You actually had them call you "Mr."?

Sweet, I can't wait!
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 13, 2009, 09:32:38 AM
[picks up phone] "Hey summer coordinator, I need a summer associate in my office for a research memo."
"We'll send one right over."
"Great, thanks."

[in walks summer associate] "Mr. Sands they said you wanted to see me."
"Yes, sit down. I see you brought a pad & pen with you.  Good.  Here's what I need you to do..."

[Sands grins evil grin upon realizing that, for the next 10 weeks, he no longer has to search lexis or westlaw]


You actually had them call you "Mr."?

Sweet, I can't wait!

LOL  they get a little nervous sometimes I guess.  Nothing wrong with that.  It's the cocky ones that I can't stand.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on June 13, 2009, 05:23:09 PM
Doc review as a summer?  I should hope not...run away from that job.

2Ls get the jobs typically through on-campus interviews.  1Ls typically blanket firms with resumes and participate in a limited OCI.

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.



No doubt, if I had to do doc review as a summer associate I would have contemplated jumping out the window or something.

I'm just glad to see that summer associates even still EXIST in this economy.    Sheesh.

When you got there as a 1L, what were your typical assignments?

How different was your first 6 months comapred to when you were a SA?


Aw man, like almost night and day damn near.

We give summer associates stuff like research memo's and other short term stuff that they can complete within a few days or weeks.  When you become an associate you become part of cases (or deals on the transaction side) that last for many months, sometimes years.  Plus there's a noticeable attitude difference I think.  As a summer associate, nobody expects you to know anything.  Everybody's all smiles and "hey no problem's"  and "it's ok's" and what not.  When you are an Associate people expect you to know some sh!t, meet deadlines, utilize resources, be available on blackberry 24/7, etc.  In other words, they treat you like a professional.
Welp, this summer we actually have to know *&^% and make sure our assignments are 100% on point...no room for error  :-\

Sigh...
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: nealric on June 13, 2009, 07:14:53 PM
Quote
As far as assignments for summer associates, like I said, mostly legal research memo's, maybe get to participate in a legal paper for a publication

I was just asked to write a paper for publication from scratch in an area of law with which I am entirely unfamiliar.

*Gulps*
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on June 13, 2009, 09:36:55 PM
Quote
As far as assignments for summer associates, like I said, mostly legal research memo's, maybe get to participate in a legal paper for a publication

I was just asked to write a paper for publication from scratch in an area of law with which I am entirely unfamiliar.

*Gulps*

dude, me too!
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 14, 2009, 08:05:04 AM
Doc review as a summer?  I should hope not...run away from that job.

2Ls get the jobs typically through on-campus interviews.  1Ls typically blanket firms with resumes and participate in a limited OCI.

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.



No doubt, if I had to do doc review as a summer associate I would have contemplated jumping out the window or something.

I'm just glad to see that summer associates even still EXIST in this economy.    Sheesh.

When you got there as a 1L, what were your typical assignments?

How different was your first 6 months comapred to when you were a SA?


Aw man, like almost night and day damn near.

We give summer associates stuff like research memo's and other short term stuff that they can complete within a few days or weeks.  When you become an associate you become part of cases (or deals on the transaction side) that last for many months, sometimes years.  Plus there's a noticeable attitude difference I think.  As a summer associate, nobody expects you to know anything.  Everybody's all smiles and "hey no problem's"  and "it's ok's" and what not.  When you are an Associate people expect you to know some sh!t, meet deadlines, utilize resources, be available on blackberry 24/7, etc.  In other words, they treat you like a professional.
Welp, this summer we actually have to know *&^% and make sure our assignments are 100% on point...no room for error  :-\

Sigh...


Oh yeah, assignments always have to be 100% on point.  That's a given.  Grammar, citation, spelling, shephardizing, etc.

Now being expected to know *&^% (like where to file a motion in NY state court for a transfer of venue or what kind of documents to ask for in a document request of a fortune 500 company for a trademark infringement case), now that's a higher than normal standard I suppose.  I would hope they're not expecting you guys to know something like that as summers.

I would expect a summer to know the substantive law that you learned in class, like what are the elements of negligence, how do we prove fraud in the inducement, was there a valid contract here, was it breached, etc.

So I guess when I say be expected to know *&^%, I mean beyond the substantive law.  I'm talking about knowing the actual practice of law, which ironically they don't teach us in law school.  Go figure.

Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 15, 2009, 01:09:50 PM
Doc review as a summer?  I should hope not...run away from that job.

2Ls get the jobs typically through on-campus interviews.  1Ls typically blanket firms with resumes and participate in a limited OCI.

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.



No doubt, if I had to do doc review as a summer associate I would have contemplated jumping out the window or something.

I'm just glad to see that summer associates even still EXIST in this economy.    Sheesh.

When you got there as a 1L, what were your typical assignments?

How different was your first 6 months comapred to when you were a SA?


Aw man, like almost night and day damn near.

We give summer associates stuff like research memo's and other short term stuff that they can complete within a few days or weeks.  When you become an associate you become part of cases (or deals on the transaction side) that last for many months, sometimes years.  Plus there's a noticeable attitude difference I think.  As a summer associate, nobody expects you to know anything.  Everybody's all smiles and "hey no problem's"  and "it's ok's" and what not.  When you are an Associate people expect you to know some sh!t, meet deadlines, utilize resources, be available on blackberry 24/7, etc.  In other words, they treat you like a professional.
Welp, this summer we actually have to know poo and make sure our assignments are 100% on point...no room for error  :-\

Sigh...


Oh yeah, assignments always have to be 100% on point.  That's a given.  Grammar, citation, spelling, shephardizing, etc.

Now being expected to know poo (like where to file a motion in NY state court for a transfer of venue or what kind of documents to ask for in a document request of a fortune 500 company for a trademark infringement case), now that's a higher than normal standard I suppose.  I would hope they're not expecting you guys to know something like that as summers.

I would expect a summer to know the substantive law that you learned in class, like what are the elements of negligence, how do we prove fraud in the inducement, was there a valid contract here, was it breached, etc.

So I guess when I say be expected to know poo, I mean beyond the substantive law.  I'm talking about knowing the actual practice of law, which ironically they don't teach us in law school.  Go figure.

I doubt any Partner or Associate is giving any substantive work to a Summer Associate. Of course the person assigning the work will hype it up. "This is really important because needs an answer by next Thursday!"

But at the end of the day, what firm is really going to say, "Yeah, that Memo you wrote really was pointless. I was already aware of the law, I just was curious about some obscure point. Toss it in my chair and I'll take a look at it later when I take a bathroom break."

Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 15, 2009, 05:13:45 PM
LOL  yeah that definitely happens sometimes.  Although, I wouldn't TOTALLY rule out the prospect of real live substantive work going to summer associates. 

For example, I was just in a fellow associate's office today and he was on the phone with a client and he asked the client "do you want me to do this, or would you prefer that I pass this off to a summer to keep the cost down?"

I'm not sure what exactly the assignment entailed, but I got the sense that it was something that was not too major yet major enough for an associate to have to do it himself if need be.  So summers absolutely do get meaningful assignments, they just tend to be shorter in nature.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 16, 2009, 06:14:47 PM
LOL  yeah that definitely happens sometimes.  Although, I wouldn't TOTALLY rule out the prospect of real live substantive work going to summer associates. 

For example, I was just in a fellow associate's office today and he was on the phone with a client and he asked the client "do you want me to do this, or would you prefer that I pass this off to a summer to keep the cost down?"

I'm not sure what exactly the assignment entailed, but I got the sense that it was something that was not too major yet major enough for an associate to have to do it himself if need be.  So summers absolutely do get meaningful assignments, they just tend to be shorter in nature.

I think one of the most substantive things I got to do by myself as a SA was drafting an Affidavit from the witness' actual statement.

I was krunk to draft it and have the Sr. Associate approve it b/c both parties were gettin' ready to go to trial and my affidavit would've been considered as testimony that might come up in trial. . . AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED?????
















Both sides agreed to settle in arbitration. You know what happened to my Toyota-Turning Point Affidavit that was oh-so important to the litigation? The opposing client took one look at it, tossed it to the side and went right back to cussin' out our client cuz he was a "no good rotten scoundrel!"
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 17, 2009, 09:50:29 AM
 :D :D :D  LOL  That's funny b/c it's so true.

Yeah, that's how it goes, man.  You spend hours upon hours working on motions and responses to motions and briefs and research, etc. And then in the blink of an eye, POOF!!!  The case settles. 

Sometimes we forget the everyday human element of this practice w/ respect to clients.  Usually (w/ corporations anyway) once we start down the road on litigation you can predict that you're not going to get a settlement until somebody's summary judgment motion gets dinged.  But sometimes the client can surprise you. You never know.

Better to be prepared I guess.


On a related note, I've noticed that the more seasoned cats tend to only do what is absolutely necessary before proceeding with a case.  For example, I have this case now dealing with some high tech subject matter.  The partner on the case filed the usual motion to dismiss on procedural grounds.  Typical tactic.  But it wasn't until the motion to dismiss actually got denied that he, for the first time, picked up some material on high tech subject matter and started to educate himself on what exactly was at issue.  He told me that he was hoping that it would get knocked out so he wouldn't have to spend time learning this tech stuff.
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 22, 2009, 07:26:02 AM
:D :D :D  LOL  That's funny b/c it's so true.

Yeah, that's how it goes, man.  You spend hours upon hours working on motions and responses to motions and briefs and research, etc. And then in the blink of an eye, POOF!!!  The case settles. 

Sometimes we forget the everyday human element of this practice w/ respect to clients.  Usually (w/ corporations anyway) once we start down the road on litigation you can predict that you're not going to get a settlement until somebody's summary judgment motion gets dinged.  But sometimes the client can surprise you. You never know.

Better to be prepared I guess.


On a related note, I've noticed that the more seasoned cats tend to only do what is absolutely necessary before proceeding with a case.  For example, I have this case now dealing with some high tech subject matter.  The partner on the case filed the usual motion to dismiss on procedural grounds.  Typical tactic.  But it wasn't until the motion to dismiss actually got denied that he, for the first time, picked up some material on high tech subject matter and started to educate himself on what exactly was at issue.  He told me that he was hoping that it would get knocked out so he wouldn't have to spend time learning this tech stuff.

Makes sense, considering that I doubt your Partner wants to spend a lot of time and effort on a BS case.

How many cases do you receive that are absolutely BS and have no merits and are only field just to milk a couple thousand in settlement?
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 22, 2009, 05:34:28 PM
:D :D :D  LOL  That's funny b/c it's so true.

Yeah, that's how it goes, man.  You spend hours upon hours working on motions and responses to motions and briefs and research, etc. And then in the blink of an eye, POOF!!!  The case settles. 

Sometimes we forget the everyday human element of this practice w/ respect to clients.  Usually (w/ corporations anyway) once we start down the road on litigation you can predict that you're not going to get a settlement until somebody's summary judgment motion gets dinged.  But sometimes the client can surprise you. You never know.

Better to be prepared I guess.


On a related note, I've noticed that the more seasoned cats tend to only do what is absolutely necessary before proceeding with a case.  For example, I have this case now dealing with some high tech subject matter.  The partner on the case filed the usual motion to dismiss on procedural grounds.  Typical tactic.  But it wasn't until the motion to dismiss actually got denied that he, for the first time, picked up some material on high tech subject matter and started to educate himself on what exactly was at issue.  He told me that he was hoping that it would get knocked out so he wouldn't have to spend time learning this tech stuff.

Makes sense, considering that I doubt your Partner wants to spend a lot of time and effort on a BS case.

How many cases do you receive that are absolutely BS and have no merits and are only field just to milk a couple thousand in settlement?


Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiit!

Like all of 'em!   :D

I shouldn't say that actually.  Actually there are some that are brought on legitimate merits.  But keep in mind, settlement is the name of the game in Biglaw.  We win cases ON PAPER at Summary Judgment and we rarely ever go to trial.  If you go to trial then usually something has gone wrong.

The pro bono stuff is usually meritorious work though. Helping people who couldn't make it happen without you.  That's always a good feeling.

Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: TruOne on June 23, 2009, 01:08:37 PM
:D :D :D  LOL  That's funny b/c it's so true.

Yeah, that's how it goes, man.  You spend hours upon hours working on motions and responses to motions and briefs and research, etc. And then in the blink of an eye, POOF!!!  The case settles. 

Sometimes we forget the everyday human element of this practice w/ respect to clients.  Usually (w/ corporations anyway) once we start down the road on litigation you can predict that you're not going to get a settlement until somebody's summary judgment motion gets dinged.  But sometimes the client can surprise you. You never know.

Better to be prepared I guess.


On a related note, I've noticed that the more seasoned cats tend to only do what is absolutely necessary before proceeding with a case.  For example, I have this case now dealing with some high tech subject matter.  The partner on the case filed the usual motion to dismiss on procedural grounds.  Typical tactic.  But it wasn't until the motion to dismiss actually got denied that he, for the first time, picked up some material on high tech subject matter and started to educate himself on what exactly was at issue.  He told me that he was hoping that it would get knocked out so he wouldn't have to spend time learning this tech stuff.

Makes sense, considering that I doubt your Partner wants to spend a lot of time and effort on a BS case.

How many cases do you receive that are absolutely BS and have no merits and are only field just to milk a couple thousand in settlement?


Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiit!

Like all of 'em!   :D

I shouldn't say that actually.  Actually there are some that are brought on legitimate merits.  But keep in mind, settlement is the name of the game in Biglaw.  We win cases ON PAPER at Summary Judgment and we rarely ever go to trial.  If you go to trial then usually something has gone wrong.

The pro bono stuff is usually meritorious work though. Helping people who couldn't make it happen without you.  That's always a good feeling.

Do Firms actually care about Pro Bono work?

As in, "Hey! Great job on that Pro Bono case last month1"

not

"Hey! Great job on that Pro Bono case last month that got our firm in the newspaper and trade magazines and gave us some great PR!"
Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 25, 2009, 07:16:53 AM
Depends on the firm. Some do, some don't. My firm actually does care about it. They give awards to associates who do the most hours of pro bono work.



 

Title: Re: Life as a Summer Associate
Post by: Naked Promise on June 25, 2009, 01:28:02 PM
tag, good thread.