Law School Discussion

Law Students => Incoming 1Ls => Topic started by: ulpian246 on April 19, 2008, 10:24:46 AM

Title: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on April 19, 2008, 10:24:46 AM
I just dropped my response letter in the mail.  Anyone else make up their minds for the maroons yet?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: cerise on April 19, 2008, 10:56:21 AM
I haven't officially made up my mind about where I'm going, but I am almost 90% sure that I will be heading to Chicago in the fall.  Do you have an idea of where you are going to live?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on April 19, 2008, 11:02:56 AM
Yep, just decided on Chicago last week. I'm excited. Is there a facebook group or something?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on April 19, 2008, 11:26:20 AM
Yep, just decided on Chicago last week. I'm excited. Is there a facebook group or something?

There seems to be a group on Facebook called "University of Chicago Law School Class of 2011" with 74 members.

Also, bienvenue.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on April 19, 2008, 11:51:20 AM
Yep, just decided on Chicago last week. I'm excited. Is there a facebook group or something?

There seems to be a group on Facebook called "University of Chicago Law School Class of 2011" with 74 members.

Also, bienvenue.

Tag
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: neverold on April 23, 2008, 03:02:51 PM
Oooh! Me, too!  I finally decided.  I'll update my signature at some point...

Any females looking to live in Regents?  I'm looking for a roomie :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on April 24, 2008, 10:45:41 AM
Hi.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: cerise on April 24, 2008, 12:05:00 PM
Oooh! Me, too!  I finally decided.  I'll update my signature at some point...

Any females looking to live in Regents?  I'm looking for a roomie :)

I've just started looking around for housing options, and I have to admit that Regents is very tempting.  Neverold- are you definately set on Regents and have you looked at the place in person?  For me, its down to the luxery of Regents and the convience of New Grad. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on April 24, 2008, 01:17:29 PM
I found a place WAY nicer than Regents in the same area for less $$. I would recommend looking on Craigslist because good housing is plentiful in Hyde Park.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on April 24, 2008, 01:31:07 PM
I think I'm going to go with Regents.  The facilities are awesome (the view from the Summit Club is breathtaking), the bus is extremely convenient (door to door service) and the prices aren't too bad if you split a 2BR.  Plus, it sounds like its extremely convenient to have 50 or so other law students close enough you can visit in your PJs during finals week.  I might move up north 2L or 3L, or to somewhere else in Hyde Park, but with a colorful as the neighborhood can be I think I'd rather wait until i've lived there to figure out the best places.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on April 24, 2008, 01:39:10 PM
yay i'm excited to see everyone next year when i am a massively old 3L!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: neverold on April 24, 2008, 01:44:34 PM
I think I'm going to go with Regents.  The facilities are awesome (the view from the Summit Club is breathtaking), the bus is extremely convenient (door to door service) and the prices aren't too bad if you split a 2BR.  Plus, it sounds like its extremely convenient to have 50 or so other law students close enough you can visit in your PJs during finals week.  I might move up north 2L or 3L, or to somewhere else in Hyde Park, but with a colorful as the neighborhood can be I think I'd rather wait until i've lived there to figure out the best places.

This.

Cerise, I am fairly decided on living in Regents.  I never considered New Grad because I really want my own kitchen.  I did look at the other graduate housing options as well as Craigslist, but from talking to some of the people who lived in Regents, I get the impression that it's really nice to be living with lots of other 1Ls your first year.  The social aspect did it for me, and though I'd need to take the bus to class, it really is pretty convenient.  I'll save money in years 2 and 3 :)

At ASW I stayed with a student who lives in Regents, and it was GORGEOUS.  Very spacious, with plenty of closet room and kitchen room.  Fanciest place I will have ever lived in, that's for sure ;)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on April 24, 2008, 02:47:04 PM
'sup guys.  I'll be attending in the Fall as well.  The Regents decision is a tough one because of the social factor, but I just don't think the money is worth it.  Seriously, $1520 for a 2BR with no heat, electric, parking, cable tv included? Elsewhere in Chicago (the nice parts!) that type of money will get you a washer and dryer in-unit at least.

I'm probably going to jam down there this weekend to check out some of the bigger apartment complexes though, so maybe Regents will wow me or something.

With that said, if any solos are out there who might want to live in a 3BR for a bit cheaper (probably the only way I'd do Regents at this point), drop a line.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ShadWhitmore on April 24, 2008, 02:50:29 PM
Tag
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on April 24, 2008, 02:57:55 PM
On Housing:

Regents definitely has many advantages.  A lot of apartments have gorgeous views, the bus is really convenient, tons of 1Ls live there (which is probably a negative for me, but to each his own).  Pricey, I suppose (I've lived in expensive places, so it doesn't seem terrible to me), but there are lots of conveniences.  We don't call it the Law School Dorm for nothing!

New Grad is super close to campus and can be good if you don't have and don't want to buy a bunch of furniture.  I don't seem to hang with many people who live there, but they definitely exist.

I've been impressed with the University Housing I've seen.  Not deluxe, but nicer than I expected at good rates.  Definitely worth checking out.

I chose to live in a Hyde Park condo I found on craigslist with a roommate I also found on craigslist who is not affiliated with the law school.  I have lots of furniture, two cats, and I like to cook, so it's worked out great for me.  Still close to school (I'm half a block from the 171 bus), but with a little more separation from the craziness.  I plan on staying here for all three years.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on April 24, 2008, 03:35:30 PM
i'd put in a vote for university housing. i pay $800 for a really large furnished (full futon/double bed, huge desk with shelves, dresser, coffee table, two end tables, dinning table) studio with a bathroom, dressing room area, and full kitchen/dining area about a 15 min. walk from the law school, across the street from ratner, which is the big university gym. there is street parking, but i pay $35 for a reserved spot (that will run you over $100 a month at regents, where there is very little street parking at night). i'm one of the few who's sticking it out here my 2L and 3L year...it's just not worth the extra money to furnish a more expensive place up north for me.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on April 24, 2008, 04:05:52 PM
I stayed in Regents this year and don't really regret the decision (I live in a 1 Br and don't have a car). On balance, I really do like having so many other law students around. Whether its just to go grab something to eat, or to go out at night, or to play a quick game of Smash Bros., being able to meet up with someone in 30 seconds is incredibly convenient. I'm actually going to miss that a lot next year.

So yes, I am looking to move out of Regents for next year. But the fact that I really haven't started seriously looking for an apartment yet (not to mention I still have to find a place over the summer) is starting to make things look iffy. Inertia may keep me in Regents, as it seems like it will do for a couple of other 1Ls and 2Ls I know that are living here right now.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on April 24, 2008, 04:16:30 PM
Tag.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on April 24, 2008, 04:37:03 PM
i'd put in a vote for university housing. i pay $800 for a really large furnished (full futon/double bed, huge desk with shelves, dresser, coffee table, two end tables, dinning table) studio with a bathroom, dressing room area, and full kitchen/dining area about a 15 min. walk from the law school, across the street from ratner, which is the big university gym. there is street parking, but i pay $35 for a reserved spot (that will run you over $100 a month at regents, where there is very little street parking at night). i'm one of the few who's sticking it out here my 2L and 3L year...it's just not worth the extra money to furnish a more expensive place up north for me.

I thought you were moving up north?  No?  Yeah!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on April 24, 2008, 05:07:43 PM
Welcome incoming 1Ls.  I won't be around when you get here, but I'm happy to answer whatever Chicago-related questions you might have.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on April 24, 2008, 05:41:59 PM
i'd put in a vote for university housing. i pay $800 for a really large furnished (full futon/double bed, huge desk with shelves, dresser, coffee table, two end tables, dinning table) studio with a bathroom, dressing room area, and full kitchen/dining area about a 15 min. walk from the law school, across the street from ratner, which is the big university gym. there is street parking, but i pay $35 for a reserved spot (that will run you over $100 a month at regents, where there is very little street parking at night). i'm one of the few who's sticking it out here my 2L and 3L year...it's just not worth the extra money to furnish a more expensive place up north for me.

I thought you were moving up north?  No?  Yeah!

haha, i wanted to, but there were three intervening factors. 1) i'm cheap, 2) i'm lazy, 3) i figure i should put in a casual appearance at school more than once a week (closely tied to the laziness factor). plus, as long as i have one good friend staying here (which i do), i can split cabs up north constantly. plus i want to be close by if the musical reunion party EVER HAPPENS.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on April 24, 2008, 06:21:05 PM
I'll put in another plug for graduate student housing. I hadn't considered it until last minute, but once I was here in Chicago and could view it, I found it to be dated, but VERY well kept. I have a 3-bedroom with a parking spot 1/2 a block away and my total rent + utilities is ~$1275 - that's a good deal in my book. It's right on the busline (about two stops down from Regents). About the only thing against it is that you do miss out on the social factor. I live in a married student building (there are some single students, but the priority/majority goes to those who are attached), but there are only about 2-3 other 1Ls who live there (and several 2/3Ls). If you don't mind walking the two blocks to Regents, then it's not a bad deal.

I'm planning to stay next year and then move up north during the third year since I'm planning to stay in Chicago permanently upon graduation.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on April 24, 2008, 07:38:24 PM
I haven't read this thread too closely -- sorry, I'm at a train station -- but I can't understand why New Graduate's kitchen is problematic for so many folks.  I don't mean to sound combative when I ask whether I'm missing something, since it seems like a great place to meet other grad and law students.  When I was touring, for instance, I met a nice International Studies student.  Is there something wrong with the kitchen that I didn't realize?  It's possible.  My tour guide was very much in "sell" mode.

I liked Regents, but I prefer the proximity of New Graduate.

Again, this thread should be very useful.  Thanks to the OP.
Here's the 2010 thread: http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php?topic=86734.4310
A questions thread: http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,95627.350.html

The kitchen at New Grad is shared. That's the problem.

Regents is nice because of all the 1Ls that also live there. More live there than New Grad. You'll know all the 1Ls anyway, but socializing is easier at the more spacious apartments of Regents.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on April 24, 2008, 08:46:22 PM
Well, part of the thing about New Grad is that there's such as thing as too much interaction with fellow law students.  I mean, it's so close to the law school and you see the same people everyday anyway.  Regents gives you a good proximity to others while giving you some privacy (and having lived in a tiny tiny studio last year in college, I like having a nice apartment to come back to).  Of course, some people aren't going to find those reasons to be enough to pay Regents' rent.  For me though, privacy and a non-shared place is really important when I'm stressed out, the weather's crappy and I have work to do (like the brief I should be writing right now). 

Oh and I'm staying in Regents too.  Partly against my will because I don't like Hyde Park, but I'm lazy, almost all of my good friends are staying in HP, and not moving frees up the last week of August for me so I can do some traveling instead of moving furniture :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Reaching on April 25, 2008, 07:18:17 AM
I think the best feature of new grad is the academic year lease. You don't have to pay for summer months if you decide to work in another city during your first summer.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: cerise on April 25, 2008, 10:23:08 AM
For all the current students: Do I need to bring my car?  Are there any gocery stores within walking/bus distance?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on April 25, 2008, 10:29:32 AM
For all the current students: Do I need to bring my car?  Are there any gocery stores within walking/bus distance?

You don't need a car, and plenty of people live without one.  But if you have a car and have the means to bring it, I highly recommend you do.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on April 25, 2008, 10:45:50 AM
There is a Treasure Island just a few blocks from Regents. Although, I bet its still a hassle to get a lot of groceries when you don't have a car. For people in that position, there is always www.peapod.com for groceries (which is what I usually use in the rare situations where I actually get groceries).

As for the car in general... I don't have one here and I don't really mind it that much. Public transportation is great within Hyde Park, and if I'm going out at night up North I probably don't want to drive anyway. Of course, there will still be times when it can be quite annoying  to not have a car (I write this as I ask someone for a ride later today), but those situations are not that common for me.

That being said, if I move up North, I will have to have a car here next year. And even if I don't move up North, I'll probably have a car.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on April 25, 2008, 10:53:17 AM
For all the current students: Do I need to bring my car?  Are there any gocery stores within walking/bus distance?

You don't need a car, and plenty of people live without one.  But if you have a car and have the means to bring it, I highly recommend you do.

TITCR.

I'm a Texan.  We drive.  It's how we roll.

But, it's totally not necessary.  Treasure Island is SOOOO much better than the old grocery store (the Hyde Park Co-Op, where you basically had no choice but to go elsewhere).  I did my first thorough shop there last night and was really pleased.  You can be cool and get one of those little carts if you don't want to carry heavy groceries (I see that all the time).  The same shopping center also has an Office Depot and a hardware store.

For stuff you want to buy outside of Hyde Park (Target, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, whatever), it seems there are people going on a regular basis (and also people who can be bribed to take a trip they weren't planning...procrastination is fun).  For going out at night, cabs are pretty cheap and easy to split (which I admit is a plus about Regents).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on April 25, 2008, 10:58:33 AM
What do you usually eat in Hyde Park?  I'm not much of a cook, and I'm woried that the lack of decent fast food will be a problem.

Well, in terms of big national chains, I think all we have are McDonalds, Dominoes, and and a few Subways. But no one wants to go to places like that anyway. There are a lot of restaurants, including fast food places, around Hyde Park. And most deliver too. I was actually pleasantly surprised with some of the food options here in Hyde Park.

The only problem is late night dining. I think the only places open really late are Dominoes and McDonalds (which is 24 hours, but only if you have a car).

I don't cook. At all. I mean, not even a little bit. And I still eat, so don't worry about that.

Quote
What do you eat for lunch around the LS?

Well, I'd say the majority of the days there is a free lunch event going on at the law school. I actually enjoy most of the events (not just for the food), so I try to go to them if I can.

If there is no free lunch that day, or I just can't go to it, there are a few options: the law school cafeteria (not recommended unless you're strapped for time or something), the business school cafeteria (recommended), a few other university cafeteries (don't know enough about them), or, if you have time, there are a number of restaurants on 57th Street to go to.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on April 25, 2008, 11:15:11 AM
What do you usually eat in Hyde Park?  I'm not much of a cook, and I'm woried that the lack of decent fast food will be a problem.

What do you eat for lunch around the LS?

To answer the second question first, I rarely buy lunch around the law school.  I either eat for free at one of the ridiculous number of events hosted ever week (student organizations, Chicago's Best Ideas, alumni roundtables, etc), bring something from home, or grab something from the Plum Cafe.  That being said, a lot of people walk to the Graduate School of
Business where they have a really big cafeteria with lots of good options.  If you have a bit more time, getting to the restaurants on 57th is pretty easy.


Now for Hyde Park Restaurants - I think we have it better than people think.

Cedars (Lebanese):  excellent kubideh kabobs, good lamb dishes, great lentil soup, great apps (falafel, lebnah, etc).  I eat here fairly regularly.  Also good lunch specials (soup, big sandwich and "fries" for $6.50 or so).  They did get rid of their cucumber salad, which I'm really mad about, but you can't win everything.

Dixie Kitchen (homestyle):  I only went here for this first time this quarter and I should have found it sooner.  Yummy johnnycakes when you sit down (and they keep bringing out as many as you want), really good red beans and rice, awesome mashed sweet potatoes, good sandwiches and po' boys.  My mom really liked the whole baby catfish.

Calypso (Caribbean):  I went with my mom for lunch the other day and it was really good.  Her trout was delicious, my jerk chicken was good.  Only "eh" mashed potatoes.  But, their tres leches dessert was heavenly.  Plus really good passion fruit iced tea.

The Snail/Siam/Thai 55:  There are actually 3 Thai restaurants on 55th street and everyone seems to have a preference.  Siam has great lunch specials (soup, entree, and egg roll for $6.25) - I love their yellow curry chicken.  The Snail has the best drunken noodles.

Kikuya (Japanese):  Pretty good for a Japanese fix.  I think their dinner entrees are a bit pricy, but it does the job.  Surprisingly good tempura.  I've only had their cooked entrees and rolls, but my roommate eats their sushi regularly and likes it.

Corea Cafe (Korean):  My Korean roommate really likes this restaurant and says it is very authentic.  I haven't been, but need to get over there.  There is some Chicago foodie website that raves about this place.

Medici (pizza, sandwiches, etc):  Kind of a Hyde Park institution.  Good burgers and sandwiches.

Cafe Florian (kind of like the Med):  I've only been once, but had a delicious tuna melt and Italian soda.  Inexpensive, good service.  Need to head back.  Breakfast menu looks awesome.

Mellow Yellow (breakfast, random food):  a regular breakfast spot for me and bf.  I usually get the (freaking giant) croissant, ham, and eggs.  Really good grits.  Don't get the Swedish pancakes.

Potbelly & Jimmie Johns:  both good for quick sandwiches.  I prefer Potbelly, I think MTG likes JJ's.  But Potbelly has the awesome cookies!

De Rice (Chinese):  They deliver giant giant portions of food for very little money.  I love their steamed dumplings and BBQ pork lo mein.  And great smoothies!

Giordanos and Edwardos (pizza):  Lots of deep dish pizza.  Edwardos gets bad reviews, but I don't get it - I really like their thin crust pizza.  To each his own, I suppose.

Pizza Capri (Italian):  Good and reliable.  I've liked all their pasta dishes that I've tried.  I'm not crazy about their pizza, though, but a friend craves their Thai pizza.

As for "fast food" there is a McDonalds and a Subway and Dominoes.  And a Boston Market.


I also want to mention Park 52, a new Jerry Kleiner restaurant that opened a few weeks ago (he's opened a bunch of places around the city).  It's definitely at a higher price point (good for parents or when you want to impress a date or if you don't mind spending money on food), but the space is gorgeous, the food is quality (and it's just finding its legs), and it is really nice to have something upscale in HP.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on April 25, 2008, 11:15:43 AM
By the way, it should be really evident that I don't want to write my brief...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on April 25, 2008, 11:22:08 AM
the b school cafeteria is kind of amazing. their salad bar has everything you could ever possibly want to put in a salad, plus lots of things you probably don't. plus they take credit cards, which is something crappy about plum cafe at the law school.

also, sillyberry forgot LEONA'S, which is your standard chili's/marie callendar's equivalent. they have amazing chicken sandwiches, pasta, salad and lots of alcoholic choices.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on April 25, 2008, 11:42:27 AM
As you can see from sb's list, the only thing really lacking in Hyde Park is a good Mexican place (there is Maravillas, but, well, no).

I also like Nile (Middle Eastern). A lot of people seem to love Salonica... but I'm not a huge fan. Its right next to Caffe Florian, so I don't understand why people would choose it (I really like Caffe Florian- and their breakfast menu is really good).

sb also forgot about Ribs n' Bibs and Harold's. Inexcusable.

But overall, yeah, lots of options.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on April 25, 2008, 11:53:09 AM
As you can see from sb's list, the only thing really lacking in Hyde Park is a good Mexican place (there is Maravillas, but, well, no).

I also like Nile (Middle Eastern). A lot of people seem to love Salonica... but I'm not a huge fan. Its right next to Caffe Florian, so I don't understand why people would choose it (I really like Caffe Florian- and their breakfast menu is really good).

sb also forgot about Ribs n' Bibs and Harold's. Inexcusable.

But overall, yeah, lots of options.

I like everything about the Nile but their rice, and that a deal breaker for me.  Which is a bummer, because it is sooo close to me.  I was "eh" on Ribs n' Bibs.  I thought what I ordered smelled better than it tasted.  But I was also in a bad mood at the time, so who knows.

Harolds is terrible.  TERRIBLE.  My mom still hasn't forgiven me for getting food from there.  Bad food, bad service, bad all around.  I don't understand the cult following for such a terrible place.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on April 25, 2008, 11:55:55 AM
As you can see from sb's list, the only thing really lacking in Hyde Park is a good Mexican place (there is Maravillas, but, well, no).

I also like Nile (Middle Eastern). A lot of people seem to love Salonica... but I'm not a huge fan. Its right next to Caffe Florian, so I don't understand why people would choose it (I really like Caffe Florian- and their breakfast menu is really good).

sb also forgot about Ribs n' Bibs and Harold's. Inexcusable.

But overall, yeah, lots of options.

I like everything about the Nile but their rice, and that a deal breaker for me.  Which is a bummer, because it is sooo close to me.  I was "eh" on Ribs n' Bibs.  I thought what I ordered smelled better than it tasted.  But I was also in a bad mood at the time, so who knows.

Harolds is terrible.  TERRIBLE.  My mom still hasn't forgiven me for getting food from there.  Bad food, bad service, bad all around.  I don't understand the cult following for such a terrible place.

i agree with this. i never got the harold's obsession. and calypso cafe has the best ribs i've ever had...much better than ribs 'n' bibs in my opinion. anyway, the takeaway point is that there are plenty of food options even if you're a crappy cook and/or don't have a kitchen. that being said, i would not want to live in new grad. i don't know many people who live there, and when i've been in their rooms it just seemed way too....dorm-ish.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on April 25, 2008, 11:59:59 AM
As you can see from sb's list, the only thing really lacking in Hyde Park is a good Mexican place (there is Maravillas, but, well, no).

I also like Nile (Middle Eastern). A lot of people seem to love Salonica... but I'm not a huge fan. Its right next to Caffe Florian, so I don't understand why people would choose it (I really like Caffe Florian- and their breakfast menu is really good).

sb also forgot about Ribs n' Bibs and Harold's. Inexcusable.

But overall, yeah, lots of options.

I like everything about the Nile but their rice, and that a deal breaker for me.  Which is a bummer, because it is sooo close to me.  I was "eh" on Ribs n' Bibs.  I thought what I ordered smelled better than it tasted.  But I was also in a bad mood at the time, so who knows.

Harolds is terrible.  TERRIBLE.  My mom still hasn't forgiven me for getting food from there.  Bad food, bad service, bad all around.  I don't understand the cult following for such a terrible place.

Harold's is delicious. You have to get the proper order though. Getting it plain and dry is a bad idea.

As for Mexican food, I'd say that not only is Hyde Park lacking, all of Chicago is lacking.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on April 25, 2008, 12:06:54 PM
Also missing from the restaurant list: Piccolo Mondo, a pretty good, cheap italian place across the street from SB.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on April 25, 2008, 12:07:30 PM
Here's a question - how well do your guys' loans cover rent at Regents (or wherever) and other expenses?  Do the loans provided through the law school give you a lot of wiggle room if you take the maximum offered and no more?  I mean, if I could be living in Regents and eating steaks everyday on my loans, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to live there but my assumption was that it would be like undergrad where my loans covered my books and tuition with little to none left over.

Also, are there any venues down south that get decent concerts or am I going to have to trek it all the way up north every time a band I like comes through town?

A note about Mexican food in Chicago - yeah, there's not really any amazing Mexican food up in near North, downtown or on South Side, but if you go to Pilsen you can find some AMAZING stuff.  Personally, I think Chicago is lacking good Chinese food (basically everywhere I've been is awful, especially the Chinatown restaurants I've been to).  Fortunately, I'm more of a thai food guy.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on April 25, 2008, 12:26:34 PM
Also missing from the restaurant list: Piccolo Mondo, a pretty good, cheap italian place across the street from SB.

I've only been there once, but it was surprisingly good. BYOB too, I think.

Also: Original Pancake House. Never been yet, but a lot of people seem to like it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on April 25, 2008, 02:19:40 PM
Kikuya (Japanese):  Pretty good for a Japanese fix.  I think their dinner entrees are a bit pricy, but it does the job.  Surprisingly good tempura.  I've only had their cooked entrees and rolls, but my roommate eats their sushi regularly and likes it.

Oh God, their sushi is TERRIBLE. You definitely have to leave Hyde Park to find good sushi, although sushi in general isn't really Chicago's strong suit (coming from Vancouver).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on April 25, 2008, 03:15:10 PM
Here's a question - how well do your guys' loans cover rent at Regents (or wherever) and other expenses?  Do the loans provided through the law school give you a lot of wiggle room if you take the maximum offered and no more?  I mean, if I could be living in Regents and eating steaks everyday on my loans, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to live there but my assumption was that it would be like undergrad where my loans covered my books and tuition with little to none left over.

Also, are there any venues down south that get decent concerts or am I going to have to trek it all the way up north every time a band I like comes through town?

A note about Mexican food in Chicago - yeah, there's not really any amazing Mexican food up in near North, downtown or on South Side, but if you go to Pilsen you can find some AMAZING stuff.  Personally, I think Chicago is lacking good Chinese food (basically everywhere I've been is awful, especially the Chinatown restaurants I've been to).  Fortunately, I'm more of a thai food guy.

i'm getting some help from my parents, but my loans definitely do not allow me to live it up (though i pretty much do anyway...whoops). then again, i'm trying to get by on perkins and stafford....probably with grad plus you'd be okay? basically, i need more than the projected cost, probably cause i have a ridiculous alcohol tolerance and drink way more than i should (with the corresponding bills to prove it).

i don't know any concert venues around hyde park besides checkerboard lounge if you like blues...i've been there a few times and it's fun.

you are definitely right about the chinese food...nicky's and wok n' roll in hyde park are pretty bad options (though my parents and i went to far east on 53rd st. which was the most horrible chinese food i have ever eaten....fortunately, they have since shut down). and chinatown, at least what i've had there, is disappointing. then again, i'm from california, where you have a good shot at a hole-in-the-wall chinese place being pretty decent.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on April 25, 2008, 04:17:05 PM
Here's a question - how well do your guys' loans cover rent at Regents (or wherever) and other expenses?  Do the loans provided through the law school give you a lot of wiggle room if you take the maximum offered and no more?  I mean, if I could be living in Regents and eating steaks everyday on my loans, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to live there but my assumption was that it would be like undergrad where my loans covered my books and tuition with little to none left over.

Also, are there any venues down south that get decent concerts or am I going to have to trek it all the way up north every time a band I like comes through town?

A note about Mexican food in Chicago - yeah, there's not really any amazing Mexican food up in near North, downtown or on South Side, but if you go to Pilsen you can find some AMAZING stuff.  Personally, I think Chicago is lacking good Chinese food (basically everywhere I've been is awful, especially the Chinatown restaurants I've been to).  Fortunately, I'm more of a thai food guy.

i'm getting some help from my parents, but my loans definitely do not allow me to live it up (though i pretty much do anyway...whoops). then again, i'm trying to get by on perkins and stafford....probably with grad plus you'd be okay? basically, i need more than the projected cost, probably cause i have a ridiculous alcohol tolerance and drink way more than i should (with the corresponding bills to prove it).

i don't know any concert venues around hyde park besides checkerboard lounge if you like blues...i've been there a few times and it's fun.

you are definitely right about the chinese food...nicky's and wok n' roll in hyde park are pretty bad options (though my parents and i went to far east on 53rd st. which was the most horrible chinese food i have ever eaten....fortunately, they have since shut down). and chinatown, at least what i've had there, is disappointing. then again, i'm from california, where you have a good shot at a hole-in-the-wall chinese place being pretty decent.

If you're only living on stafford/perkins, you're way under budget.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on April 25, 2008, 04:30:20 PM
Here's a question - how well do your guys' loans cover rent at Regents (or wherever) and other expenses?  Do the loans provided through the law school give you a lot of wiggle room if you take the maximum offered and no more?  I mean, if I could be living in Regents and eating steaks everyday on my loans, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to live there but my assumption was that it would be like undergrad where my loans covered my books and tuition with little to none left over.

Also, are there any venues down south that get decent concerts or am I going to have to trek it all the way up north every time a band I like comes through town?

A note about Mexican food in Chicago - yeah, there's not really any amazing Mexican food up in near North, downtown or on South Side, but if you go to Pilsen you can find some AMAZING stuff.  Personally, I think Chicago is lacking good Chinese food (basically everywhere I've been is awful, especially the Chinatown restaurants I've been to).  Fortunately, I'm more of a thai food guy.

i'm getting some help from my parents, but my loans definitely do not allow me to live it up (though i pretty much do anyway...whoops). then again, i'm trying to get by on perkins and stafford....probably with grad plus you'd be okay? basically, i need more than the projected cost, probably cause i have a ridiculous alcohol tolerance and drink way more than i should (with the corresponding bills to prove it).

i don't know any concert venues around hyde park besides checkerboard lounge if you like blues...i've been there a few times and it's fun.

you are definitely right about the chinese food...nicky's and wok n' roll in hyde park are pretty bad options (though my parents and i went to far east on 53rd st. which was the most horrible chinese food i have ever eaten....fortunately, they have since shut down). and chinatown, at least what i've had there, is disappointing. then again, i'm from california, where you have a good shot at a hole-in-the-wall chinese place being pretty decent.

If you're only living on stafford/perkins, you're way under budget.

true, but my parents are making up the difference.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on April 25, 2008, 06:49:09 PM
Also missing from the restaurant list: Piccolo Mondo, a pretty good, cheap italian place across the street from SB.

I've only been there once, but it was surprisingly good. BYOB too, I think.

Also: Original Pancake House. Never been yet, but a lot of people seem to like it.

I ate there today, actually.  I've been there several times and have really liked it - their strawberry pancakes are awesome, as well as their hash browns. 

For sushi, I definitely recommend going out of HP.  I've tried Kikuya once and that place should not even be called a sushi place.  I have higher standards for sushi than that :P  I like Kamehachi in Old Town and Sushi Mura in Lakeview, and I'm still trying out new places. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on April 25, 2008, 06:50:38 PM
Re: Loans

I took out the max amount and I think it would cover rent/utilities/expenses pretty well.  I have a skewed perspective though because I spend way too much on food (eating out/ordering, etc.).  I think people who have 2BRs with roommates are in better positions though, just because that 300-400 dollars/month they save in rent really adds up.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on April 26, 2008, 01:09:10 AM
Also missing from the restaurant list: Piccolo Mondo, a pretty good, cheap italian place across the street from SB.

I've only been there once, but it was surprisingly good. BYOB too, I think.

Also: Original Pancake House. Never been yet, but a lot of people seem to like it.

I ate there today, actually.  I've been there several times and have really liked it - their strawberry pancakes are awesome, as well as their hash browns. 

For sushi, I definitely recommend going out of HP.  I've tried Kikuya once and that place should not even be called a sushi place.  I have higher standards for sushi than that :P  I like Kamehachi in Old Town and Sushi Mura in Lakeview, and I'm still trying out new places. 

Everything at Pancake House is amazing. I've had most (if not all) of their less-common menu items, and more than 1/2 their menu. No complaints.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on April 26, 2008, 08:25:09 AM
Re: Loans

I took out the max amount and I think it would cover rent/utilities/expenses pretty well.  I have a skewed perspective though because I spend way too much on food (eating out/ordering, etc.).  I think people who have 2BRs with roommates are in better positions though, just because that 300-400 dollars/month they save in rent really adds up.

Having a roommate makes the student budget easily livable.  My 1L year, it was actually extravagant, but Regents price increases have cut into my baller lifestyle.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on April 26, 2008, 09:09:42 AM
Re: Loans

I took out the max amount and I think it would cover rent/utilities/expenses pretty well.  I have a skewed perspective though because I spend way too much on food (eating out/ordering, etc.).  I think people who have 2BRs with roommates are in better positions though, just because that 300-400 dollars/month they save in rent really adds up.

Having a roommate makes the student budget easily livable.  My 1L year, it was actually extravagant, but Regents price increases have cut into my baller lifestyle.


I have a wife and a baby and manage on the student budget, without receiving very much more than the single student allotment (and supplementing a little bit from my savings). So yeah, it's totally doable as long as you don't have a big car payment, etc.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: cerise on April 28, 2008, 03:15:07 PM
Just withdrew from all other schools.  I'm going to Chicago!! ;D
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on April 28, 2008, 04:57:37 PM
Pretty sure I'm headed there as well!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 01, 2008, 11:19:09 AM
Also missing from the restaurant list: Piccolo Mondo, a pretty good, cheap italian place across the street from SB.

I've only been there once, but it was surprisingly good. BYOB too, I think.

Also: Original Pancake House. Never been yet, but a lot of people seem to like it.

I ate there today, actually.  I've been there several times and have really liked it - their strawberry pancakes are awesome, as well as their hash browns. 

For sushi, I definitely recommend going out of HP.  I've tried Kikuya once and that place should not even be called a sushi place.  I have higher standards for sushi than that :P  I like Kamehachi in Old Town and Sushi Mura in Lakeview, and I'm still trying out new places. 

Not sure how I missed the sushi talk.  The place that I hit the most up here on the North Side is House of Sushi.  It's all you can eat for $15 and has really good sushi (if you order off of the menu, the rolls are $8-12 a piece, which is what I would expect at a restaurant of similar quality).  Be warned that they have a fee if you don't clear your plate, though.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on May 03, 2008, 04:32:51 PM
i actually don't mind kikuya sushi here in hyde park, given that i am a sushi fanatic, need a local fix, and don't want to drive up north and deal with parking. however, they don't serve sake bombs (or alcohol at all, which i find very weird).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on May 03, 2008, 11:45:02 PM
On the sushi note:

I like Kabuki in lincoln park- I was there earlier tonight and it was surprisingly good (I say surprisingly because we were originally planning on going somewhere else and that fell through, so we ended up at Kabuki as a back up).  I was at Sushi Para II the other day as well, and that was ok.  All you can eat for $17, with a fee for leftovers.  Not bad quality, but we were a little greedy and by the end, I really hated sushi (I was stuffed and there were a few more pieces left).  The other great thing about both of these places is that they're on N. Clark, and really close to Molly's Cupcakes, which are amaaaazing. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ShadWhitmore on May 04, 2008, 11:32:51 PM
Hey, has anyone received the travel reimbursement from ASW?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on May 04, 2008, 11:41:22 PM
Hey, has anyone received the travel reimbursement from ASW?

I seem to remember that it took quite a while for my travel reimbursement to arrive from last year's ASW.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on May 05, 2008, 05:43:06 AM
Hey, has anyone received the travel reimbursement from ASW?

I seem to remember that it took quite a while for my travel reimbursement to arrive from last year's ASW.

Yeah, think June 1 or so.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on May 08, 2008, 06:49:30 AM
So when are people moving to Chicago?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 08, 2008, 11:43:24 AM
So when are people moving to Chicago?

I'm already out here, but I'll be down by the school (if I end up moving south) when my lease runs out at the beginning of July.  It seems like most people I've talked to are only giving themselves a week or so to acclimate to the city before classes start, which seems kind of weird to me.  Even if you're not doing anything major, wouldn't you at least want to get a lay of the land for a couple weeks beforehand? 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on May 08, 2008, 12:12:01 PM
I moved to Chicago during the first week of September, and it was nice having some time to settle into the city (not to mention my apartment). A lot easier to do that before orientation starts. Also, if you're living in Regents at least, you'll also get to meet some of your future classmates before orientation starts.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on May 08, 2008, 04:01:22 PM
I'm torn between exploring new things and hanging out with people back home I might not get to see for a while.

Maybe Sept 1?

When do most Regents leases begin?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on May 08, 2008, 04:03:56 PM
I'm torn between exploring new things and hanging out with people back home I might not get to see for a while.

Maybe Sept 1?

When do most Regents leases begin?

The majority of people move in around Sept. 1st. I moved in over labor day (~5th) last year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on May 08, 2008, 07:18:45 PM
Yeah, and it will probably be the same this year since OUR leases go till September 1st I think. So for many of the apartments you guys will be getting, they would really have to wait until we move out, they clean the apartment, etc.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: fluorescent on May 09, 2008, 02:08:37 AM
Hey,

I'm Chicago bound for 2011.  Was originally at 2010 admit, but deferred for a year to bum around Asia.  I was so excited to see a 2011 group because it's been SO QUIET on the facebook group and the admitted students board.  Yet, as "Wallace Stevens" pointed out, it seems like our class is quite dependent on our elders to maintain conversational flow.

Maybe though, it's because people aren't yet sure that they're going to Chicago?  I dunno.

As for myself, I'm going to be in Regents in a 2 bedroom.  I actually met my roommate (another soon to be 1L at Chicago) while in Asia (strange coincidence, but made possible through chatter on the admitted students board).  We were thinking of moving in around September 10th, maybe a little after.  Seems like we get a late start (24th is orientation, 29th is first day of class), so no need to be in Chicago so early.  My roommate-to-be talked to the people at Regents and they mentioned September 10th as a decent move-in date (probably to give them time to clean as mentioned by buffettologie) and also that they'd prorate the rent.

Well, hehe, I should get back to work.  I'm totally slacking right now.  Luckily, my bosses are (1) pretty chill and (2) not fluent in English.  Nice to make ur acquaintenances.  I'll try to post every now and then to keep this thread alive.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 09, 2008, 07:54:08 AM
I'm kind of disappointed that everybody is coming so late.  The summer is the best part about Chicago!  Pitchfork Music Festival, Lollapalooza, Taste of Chicago, the Blues/Jazz/World Music Festivals, all kinds of neighborhood festivals (Wicker Park Fest represent)...

That said, if anybody IS coming out here to check any of that stuff out, let me know and I'd be glad to buy you a beer or something.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on May 09, 2008, 08:48:38 AM
I'm torn between exploring new things and hanging out with people back home I might not get to see for a while.

Maybe Sept 1?

When do most Regents leases begin?

Last year the earliest they were letting people move in was around Sept. 5 I think.

Just got off the phone with Regents- you can move in anytime, even to the law student area.

Also, do the 2 bedroom law student rooms have 2 bathrooms? I forgot to ask.

I'm kind of disappointed that everybody is coming so late.  The summer is the best part about Chicago!  Pitchfork Music Festival, Lollapalooza, Taste of Chicago, the Blues/Jazz/World Music Festivals, all kinds of neighborhood festivals (Wicker Park Fest represent)...

That said, if anybody IS coming out here to check any of that stuff out, let me know and I'd be glad to buy you a beer or something.

I figure I will go there for Pitchfork and maybe another trip too. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on May 09, 2008, 09:13:35 AM
I'm torn between exploring new things and hanging out with people back home I might not get to see for a while.

Maybe Sept 1?

When do most Regents leases begin?

Last year the earliest they were letting people move in was around Sept. 5 I think.

Just got off the phone with Regents- you can move in anytime, even to the law student area.

Also, do the 2 bedroom law student rooms have 2 bathrooms? I forgot to ask.

Yes.  One of the bedrooms is the "master" and is bigger with in-room bathroom.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on May 09, 2008, 09:22:38 AM
I'm torn between exploring new things and hanging out with people back home I might not get to see for a while.

Maybe Sept 1?

When do most Regents leases begin?

Last year the earliest they were letting people move in was around Sept. 5 I think.

Just got off the phone with Regents- you can move in anytime, even to the law student area.

Also, do the 2 bedroom law student rooms have 2 bathrooms? I forgot to ask.

Yes.  One of the bedrooms is the "master" and is bigger with in-room bathroom.

Do people typically pay more for the master? Or do most split it 50/50?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on May 09, 2008, 09:25:06 AM
I'm torn between exploring new things and hanging out with people back home I might not get to see for a while.

Maybe Sept 1?

When do most Regents leases begin?

Last year the earliest they were letting people move in was around Sept. 5 I think.

Just got off the phone with Regents- you can move in anytime, even to the law student area.

Also, do the 2 bedroom law student rooms have 2 bathrooms? I forgot to ask.

Yes.  One of the bedrooms is the "master" and is bigger with in-room bathroom.

Do people typically pay more for the master? Or do most split it 50/50?

I needed the master because I have a GIGANTIC desk that wouldn't fit in the smaller one.  I've offered to prorate the rent, but both roommates I've had have insisted on splitting 50/50.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 09, 2008, 10:59:11 AM
I'm kind of disappointed that everybody is coming so late.  The summer is the best part about Chicago!  Pitchfork Music Festival, Lollapalooza, Taste of Chicago, the Blues/Jazz/World Music Festivals, all kinds of neighborhood festivals (Wicker Park Fest represent)...

That said, if anybody IS coming out here to check any of that stuff out, let me know and I'd be glad to buy you a beer or something.

I wish I could make one of these festivals.  I have a UIC friend who's passionate about this stuff, and, for him, seeing Wilco whenever they play in the summer is practically a religious experience.

Are you an incoming 1L, too, Bathing?

Yeah, I'm also an incoming 1L.  The nice thing about a lot of those festivals is that they're free.  I know Taste of Chicago had a lot of free stuff last year, most of the neighborhood festivals are free and the big blues and jazz festivals are free. 

Also, I don't know if this will catch anybody else, but My Bloody Valentine is playing their only midwest date at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago on Sat. September 27th and tickets go on sale tomorrow at 11 AM and will sell out within minutes, I'm guessing.  Just throwin' that out there.

Congrats (I hope) hobbes!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on May 09, 2008, 02:46:46 PM
heads up: priority deadline for loans is May 16.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on May 10, 2008, 09:50:40 AM
i'm moving up july 1st so anybody who is going to be up there already should PM me.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on May 10, 2008, 10:10:53 AM
heads up: priority deadline for loans is May 16.

Can you elaborate?  I totally forgot about the loan end of things, but I figured that would be organized by September.

ETA: what instrument do you play, hip?

What is the application deadline?
 Please make every effort to complete all required forms on or before the priority deadline listed below for each quarter. If you apply later, you may still be able to receive a loan however, your loan funds may not be available at the beginning of the quarter. Federal Work-Study and Perkins funds are limited and offered on a first-come first-served basis. You are strongly urged to complete your application by the priority deadline, but not later than four to six weeks prior to the date in which you need the loan funds. Especially if you are applying for federal assistance, it is important that Student Loan Administration staff members have time after receiving your FAFSA data electronically to help you resolve any unforeseen issues that may arise as a result.

Quarter Priority Deadline*
Summer 2008:  April 4, 2008
Autumn 2008 - Spring 2009:  May 16, 2008

* Please see clarification of deadline in paragraph above. Note: We will accept applications for summer work-study either until July 2, 2008, or until funds are depleted, whichever comes first.
 
https://sla.uchicago.edu/finaid/0809/faqs0809.html

HTH!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on May 12, 2008, 04:56:18 PM
ETA: what instrument do you play, hip?

bass, guitar, keys, etc

So are you joining us hip?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on May 12, 2008, 06:16:46 PM
ETA: what instrument do you play, hip?

bass, guitar, keys, etc

i predict in advance that the law school musical will track down your identity and shame you into playing in the pit band. THANKFULLY, that role will not be me next year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: justjoined on May 14, 2008, 09:02:55 PM
So are you joining us hip?

yeah.

come on guys, this thread is looking anemic! anyone thinking of not living in hyde park next year?

Yay!!!!!!!!!

I thought about it, because I HATE moving and I was concerned about safety.  The social pluses and regents pool won me over. :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ApplesOranges on May 15, 2008, 09:38:14 AM
I'm sorry, but whoever said the Mexican food is lacking in Chicago is WAY off.  In addition to the many excellent places in Pilsen, on the North Side you should try out places like Salpicon, Frontera Grill/Topoblampo, Uncle Julios, and for something a little cheaper, Mayan Palace.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on May 15, 2008, 09:55:17 AM
I'm sorry, but whoever said the Mexican food is lacking in Chicago is WAY off.  In addition to the many excellent places in Pilsen, on the North Side you should try out places like Salpicon, Frontera Grill/Topoblampo, Uncle Julios, and for something a little cheaper, Mayan Palace.

What part of the country are you from?  Your answer will directly bear on the relevance of your opinions about Mexican food.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 15, 2008, 10:46:12 AM
So are you joining us hip?

yeah.

come on guys, this thread is looking anemic! anyone thinking of not living in hyde park next year?

I'm considering living up north, either in Lakeview or Wicker Park.  If you're thinking about the same, let me know, as my (non-law student) friend and I may be looking for a third roommate.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 16, 2008, 03:16:21 PM
Alright, really now.  There are more replies in the SLU thread than this one!  Let's get some chatter in here or something, lest I think we're going to be stuck with a bunch of anti-social nerds.

Is anyone coming out to visit over the summer or anything?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: deadfun on May 16, 2008, 08:14:15 PM
Hey hip-

If you come to town this summer and want someone to show you around school, let me know. I am a current 1L and I will be working in the clinics over break. I couldn't visit until summer last year, so my first glimpse of Chicago was when it was totally deserted. Any law school seems like a surgery ward when its completely empty.


Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on May 17, 2008, 03:58:32 PM
Hey hip-

If you come to town this summer and want someone to show you around school, let me know. I am a current 1L and I will be working in the clinics over break. I couldn't visit until summer last year, so my first glimpse of Chicago was when it was totally deserted. Any law school seems like a surgery ward when its completely empty.


Now I want to know who you are...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on May 18, 2008, 01:57:10 AM
I still want to know who Savage is. Its not fair. Random 1Ls who just lurk here know who some of us are. Its disconcerting.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: deadfun on May 18, 2008, 06:21:32 AM
Hey hip-

If you come to town this summer and want someone to show you around school, let me know. I am a current 1L and I will be working in the clinics over break. I couldn't visit until summer last year, so my first glimpse of Chicago was when it was totally deserted. Any law school seems like a surgery ward when its completely empty.


Now I want to know who you are...

Sorry for lurking. Its true I do know who you both are (and I love to love to love you). So unfair. I'll try and drop hints or something.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on May 18, 2008, 06:38:22 AM
I still want to know who Savage is. Its not fair. Random 1Ls who just lurk here know who some of us are. Its disconcerting.


This is very true. We should delete all evidence of our LSD selves.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on May 18, 2008, 10:22:14 AM
I still want to know who Savage is. Its not fair. Random 1Ls who just lurk here know who some of us are. Its disconcerting.


This is very true. We should delete all evidence of our LSD selves.

I think my best self is my LSD self.  Generally expressed in the middle of the night about a year ago.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on May 26, 2008, 05:13:00 PM
I guess since I started this thread, I should probably respond to the survey...

1. What is your user name and why did you choose it?
-Ulpian was a compiler of one of the Roman Digests of Civil Law, 2, 4 & 6 are sequential even numbers.  I chose the name because I was bored in my Roman Family law class and am terrible at inventing pseudonyms.

2. Where were you born?
-A small farm town in mid-Michigan (a one-stoplight city with a hardware store that sells bait/ammo/milk and wine in 6-packs).

3. Do you like to drive?
-Only when I have nowhere I have to be.

4. Favorite type of food?
-Pierogies with sauteed onions

5. Favorite beverage?
-Laphroig or lemonade.

6. If you could only eat one kind of cereal for the rest of your life, what would it be?
-Corn Chex

7. What book have you read the most times?
-Count of Monte Cristo

8. Favorite TV channel?
-ESPN or History

9. Favorite movies? movies are so looong.
-As long as this is a law school thread, The Verdict is a guilty pleasure

10. What Hollywood star would play you in a movie about your life?
-Paul Newman would be pretty cool, but Jeff Daniels would probably be better type-casting.

11. Which single store would you choose to max out your credit cards?
-Borders

12. Are you willing to sing karaoke with me?
-After how many beers?

13. What is your dream vacation?
-Backpacking in the Scottish highlands

14. What is your favorite article of clothing?
-A well-worn hoodie

15. What is your favorite song playing on the radio right now?
-I just heard a great one by the Weakerthans, but the FM in my car is long-departed, so I don't listen too often.

16. Do you need coffee in the morning to be a tolerable human being?
-3 cup minimum for tolerable, 5 cup for well-adjusted

17. Can you cook?  If so, what's your best dish?
-Nope, I just burned spaghetti and marinara, which I didn't know was possible

18. What is your favorite sports team?  What sports team do you hate the most?
-Go Wings! Least: Ohio State (or for pro teams, currently the Celtics).

19: What is your favorite board game?
-I have yet to meet one I haven't liked, although Chutes-and-Ladders as a drinking game is fairly entertaining.

20: How excited are you to have fun die?
-Very excited, although it will be sorely missed.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on May 26, 2008, 05:24:50 PM
Hi, it looks like i'll be joining you guys in the fall! 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAccrescendi on May 26, 2008, 11:02:09 PM
Red Wings! Hell yes, Ulpian. Those silly Penguins...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAccrescendi on May 26, 2008, 11:18:17 PM
Quote
It seems like most people I've talked to are only giving themselves a week or so to acclimate to the city before classes start, which seems kind of weird to me.

I would not be able to do this. OK, I am exaggerating slightly, but I need more than a week or two in order to get a sense of my environment. I'd likely perish on Survivor due to this fact.

I plan on moving out to Chicago within 2-8 weeks (yes, quite a large time frame, but it's difficult researching housing from a different state). That way I can settle in and be at ease as much as one can be come 1L.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: tracker on May 27, 2008, 12:56:44 AM
heads up: priority deadline for loans is May 16.

Can you elaborate?  I totally forgot about the loan end of things, but I figured that would be organized by September.

ETA: what instrument do you play, hip?

What is the application deadline?
 Please make every effort to complete all required forms on or before the priority deadline listed below for each quarter. If you apply later, you may still be able to receive a loan however, your loan funds may not be available at the beginning of the quarter. Federal Work-Study and Perkins funds are limited and offered on a first-come first-served basis. You are strongly urged to complete your application by the priority deadline, but not later than four to six weeks prior to the date in which you need the loan funds. Especially if you are applying for federal assistance, it is important that Student Loan Administration staff members have time after receiving your FAFSA data electronically to help you resolve any unforeseen issues that may arise as a result.

Quarter Priority Deadline*
Summer 2008:  April 4, 2008
Autumn 2008 - Spring 2009:  May 16, 2008

* Please see clarification of deadline in paragraph above. Note: We will accept applications for summer work-study either until July 2, 2008, or until funds are depleted, whichever comes first.
 
https://sla.uchicago.edu/finaid/0809/faqs0809.html

HTH!


Ugh poo. I have been waiting on a final scholarship offer from Chicago and missed the deadline. For the older students: they say that if you turn in the apps late (I will be turning it in tomorrow) we might not get the loans on time for the first day of the quarter. Does this mean that when the deadline to pay the first bill comes in, I won't have my loans money? What is the grace period for bill payments?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 27, 2008, 08:42:36 AM
Since I'm bored -

1. What is your user name and why did you choose it?
- http://www.jesus.com/ used to be a personal ad for Jesus which included a picture of him in a bubblebath.  'nuff said.

2. Where were you born?
- Born in San Francisco, grew up in the Bay Area, moved to Utah for high school.

3. Do you like to drive?
- Nah, not really.  Road trips can be fun, though.

4. Favorite type of food?
- Indian food, hands down.  I'll be making trips up to Devon (little India) quite often for anyone interested.

5. Favorite beverage?
- Diet Pepsi, though if I had to choose a beer it'd be Blue Moon.

6. If you could only eat one kind of cereal for the rest of your life, what would it be?
- Kashi GoLean Crunch.

7. What book have you read the most times?
- Homer's Odyssey

8. Favorite TV channel?
- Either Fox Soccer Channel/GolTV or the Chicago public access station.  I don't think I'll ever get tired of watching awful rappers mug in front of a green screen.

9. Favorite movies? movies are so looong.
- Wet Hot American Summer is my favorite, but I also like David Lynch and Takashi Miike films.

10. What Hollywood star would play you in a movie about your life?
- Someone told me that I looked like Liam Neesson... I'm not sure if that was a compliment or an insult.

11. Which single store would you choose to max out your credit cards?
- Reckless Records.

12. Are you willing to sing karaoke with me?
- Totally depends on how many Prince songs are available.  The more there are, the better the chances.

13. What is your dream vacation?
- I'll be vague and say "Europe"

14. What is your favorite article of clothing?
- My zip-up hoodie or the wool coat I received for Christmas.

15. What is your favorite song playing on the radio right now?
- About half the DJs at http://www.wfmu.org/ play stuff I like, but I can't really think of anything off of mainstream radio.

16. Do you need coffee in the morning to be a tolerable human being?
- I don't drink coffee, but I drink a whole lot of green tea.

17. Can you cook?  If so, what's your best dish?
- I'm a good recipe follower, but anything past that and I'm lost - my main goal for first year isn't anything dealing with law school, it's to get better at cooking.

18. What is your favorite sports team?  What sports team do you hate the most?
- I'm a Raiders fan and I hate the Patriots (tuck rule my ass)

19: What is your favorite board game?
- Scrabble or Club Cranium

20: How excited are you to have fun die?
- I'll be living up north, so I'll still be able to have fun for at least several hours each day.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on May 27, 2008, 06:13:53 PM
Oh, these are fun when I'm bored.

1. What is your user name and why did you choose it?
-JusAbstinendi. It's a legal term that indicates an individual's right to renounce or refuse an inheritance. I chose it because I like its symbolism in a social sense; we're not bound to accept the laws, institutions, mores, etc. that are ours to receive. I find it empowering. *shrug*

2. Where were you born?
-Wyandotte, MI, which eerily reminds me of Hyde Park now that I think about it...

3. Do you like to drive?
-I view cars as tools. So I guess I like driving as much as I like using a hammer.

4. Favorite type of food?
-Is beer a food? Seriously, though, Mexican food. Spicy Italian dishes are a great second.

5. Favorite beverage?
-Either black coffee (it must be black or it's not coffee) or Two Hearted Ale by Bells, the king of brewers in Michigan.

6. If you could only eat one kind of cereal for the rest of your life, what would it be?
-Walmart Raisin Bran. Seriously, Sam Walton knows how to make one hell of a raisin bran.

7. What book have you read the most times?
-I've only read a handful of books more than once. 1984?

8. Favorite TV channel?
-Not a big TV watcher. I guess the History Channel, though most of the programming is terrible.

9. Favorite movies?
-I'll have to say Alien. Damn, I wish they still made horrifying sci-fi movies that weren't CGI-reliant.

10. What Hollywood star would play you in a movie about your life?
-Matt Damon? I might just go with Depp, because he's such an impressive character actor.

11. Which single store would you choose to max out your credit cards?
-There was this neat little used book store near my undergrad campus. I could probably buy the place if I were to max out my cards. I wooooullldd choose Borders/Barnes & Nobles, but even with $30,000 in credit, I'd only be able to afford roughly 16 books.  ;)

12. Are you willing to sing karaoke with me?
-No. I'm not a cruel person.

13. What is your dream vacation?
-Süd Tirol, which is a lush mountain province wedged in between Italy, Austria, and Switzerland. The sort of place that makes you believe in Eden.

14. What is your favorite article of clothing?
-This makes me think of my beloved white RL polo, now gone after many years of loyal service. ;[

15. What is your favorite song playing on the radio right now?
-Mainstream? Not a clue.

16. Do you need coffee in the morning to be a tolerable human being?
-"Need" is such a strong word. Let's just say I'd be a lesser man without coffee.

17. Can you cook?  If so, what's your best dish?
-Absolutely not. It's hilarious/sad how little I know about cooking.

18. What is your favorite sports team?  What sports team do you hate the most?
-You could take every single team in the world and combine them, but that combination still wouldn't compare to the Red Wings. Sorry, Blackhawks, but I'll be wearing red & white to your games.

19: What is your favorite board game?
-Stratego or Clue.

20: How excited are you to have fun die?
-For me, fun never really lived, and thus how can it truly die? That was profound, man, so profound.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on May 28, 2008, 05:47:12 AM
I love Indian food.  This is good news.  If I could, I wouldn't eat any bread but naan.
I don't remember if there was any good subcontinent food in Hyde Park itself?

Nope, there isn't.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: deadfun on May 28, 2008, 07:22:58 AM
I will say this for Rajun Kajun. The grease works great for soaking up alcohol, if you are nursing a nasty hangover. Not that I am speaking from personal experience.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on May 28, 2008, 08:03:27 AM
Aha! I know who you are now.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: deadfun on May 28, 2008, 12:31:08 PM
No way!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on May 28, 2008, 11:48:21 PM
So some of you guys are my classmates for this fall?  Very cool!  But we're getting creamed by the other "class of '11" threads!

My answers:

1. What is your user name and why did you choose it?
No mystery.  It's descriptive.

2. Where were you born?
Just outside of DC.

3. Do you like to drive?
Can't drive.  Neither can my wife.  We're an odd couple.

4. Favorite type of food?
Italian.  Definitely includes pizza.

5. Favorite beverage?
Right now, Coke Zero.  But it goes in cycles.

6. If you could only eat one kind of cereal for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Cheerios.  They're addicting for little toasted oats.

7. What book have you read the most times?
I've re-read the Wheel of Time series from scratch every time a new book came out.  I've been doing it since book 1.  Now the author, Robert Jordan, died before finishing the 12th and final book.  Yep.

8. Favorite TV channel?
I don't discriminate; I'll watch any trashy primetime drama.

9. Favorite movies?
Pulp Fiction, LOTR triology, Vertigo.

10. What Hollywood star would play you in a movie about your life?
Kevin Spacey

11. Which single store would you choose to max out your credit cards?
Amazon.com

12. Are you willing to sing karaoke with me?
What's your pain tolerance?

13. What is your dream vacation?
A trip to all the capitals of ancient civilizations.

14. What is your favorite article of clothing?
A fabulous chalk-striped 3/4 length jacket.  I think I'll need something heavier for Chicago.

15. What is your favorite song playing on the radio right now?
No idea.

16. Do you need coffee in the morning to be a tolerable human being?
What is a 'morning'?  I've been a grad student for too long.

17. Can you cook?  If so, what's your best dish?
I once microwaved a cup of soup.  The soup was good, but I had to spend a half hour cleaning the explosion in the microwave.

18. What is your favorite sports team?  What sports team do you hate the most?
No idea.

19: What is your favorite board game?
Don't know.  Monopoly?

20: How excited are you to have fun die?
I never knew fun.  Can't say I'll miss her.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 29, 2008, 09:33:01 AM
11. Which single store would you choose to max out your credit cards?
Amazon.com

That's simultaneously the best AND the worst answer.  The best because you can legitimately buy anything there and the worst because that fact says absolutely nothing about you, haha.  I mean, you can buy this (http://www.amazon.com/Meyenberg-Instant-Powdered-Goat-12-Ounce/dp/B000FH2YY8/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=grocery&qid=1212074888&sr=8-5) there.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on May 29, 2008, 12:00:49 PM
120! Damn, you done burned him, Rush.  ::)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on May 29, 2008, 12:04:06 PM
Really? Powdered goat's milk is the weirdest thing you found on amazon? 120.

I didn't feel like wasting my morning finding teal and orange camouflage buttplugs shaped like Frida Kahlo, sue me.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on May 29, 2008, 01:48:42 PM
That's simultaneously the best AND the worst answer.  The best because you can legitimately buy anything there and the worst because that fact says absolutely nothing about you, haha.  I mean, you can buy this (http://www.amazon.com/Meyenberg-Instant-Powdered-Goat-12-Ounce/dp/B000FH2YY8/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=grocery&qid=1212074888&sr=8-5) there.

You're right.  Well, it does tell you I'm a little practical.  If we're all maxing our credit cards at these stores, you guys are going to be eating books for a month.  I, on the other hand, will be savoring sumptuous powdered goat's milk and hot pickled mango relish (http://www.amazon.com/Patak-Mango-Pickle-10-Ounce-Bottle/dp/B000OTZXAE/ref=sr_1_71?ie=UTF8&s=grocery&qid=1212089555&sr=1-71).  My doctor keeps telling me to get my RDA of food.  Amazon delivers.

I also have a lot of interests.  In the past year or two I've bought dozens of books plus: a 24" level (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006FRAKC), a tv (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G81EYW), and a clothes steamer (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000094ZF0).  Simply awesome.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on May 29, 2008, 02:27:26 PM
i'll be attending.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on May 29, 2008, 11:08:40 PM

1. What is your user name and why did you choose it?
Can I get about tree fity?

2. Where were you born?
Charlotte, NC

3. Do you like to drive?
Yes. But I'm selling my car before I move to Chicago.

4. Favorite type of food?
Steak, Mashed potatoes, asparagus and freshly baked bread.

5. Favorite beverage?
Good beer.

6. If you could only eat one kind of cereal for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Peanut Butter Captain Crunch. Hands down.

7. What book have you read the most times?
Tolstoy's The Cossacks

8. Favorite TV channel?
HBO.

9. Favorite movies?
All of Tarantino's films except his half of Grindhouse. The Ian Holm (Holme?) King Lear. Ran. The Orphanage. Pan's Labyrinth. Blade Runner. Full Metal Jacket. The Departed. The Science of Sleep. City of God. Dreams. Eyes Wide Shut. Star Wars IV through VI. The Darjeeling Limited. Etc.

10. What Hollywood star would play you in a movie about your life?
Whoever the tallest white guy is. I don't know.

11. Which single store would you choose to max out your credit cards?
Guitar Center

12. Are you willing to sing karaoke with me?
Most likely not. Are there free drinks involved?

13. What is your dream vacation?
St. Petersburg, Tokyo, Bangcock, Milan, Athens.

14. What is your favorite article of clothing?
A pair of black jeans that my wife has officially banned.

15. What is your favorite song playing on the radio right now?
If you mean that is actually played on main stream radio it would probably be some 70s progressive rock stuff: Rush, Yes, Blue Oyster Cult.

16. Do you need coffee in the morning to be a tolerable human being?
No.

17. Can you cook?  If so, what's your best dish?
I was a line cook in a fine dining restaurant, but all that really means is that I can follow recipes really well. I have no creativity when it comes to (cooking) food. I guess my best dish is a homemade cream of potato soup that I served with balsamic vinegar - people were ordering seconds all day.

18. What is your favorite sports team?  What sports team do you hate the most?
Carolina Panthers. This answers both questions.

19: What is your favorite board game?
Scrabble.

20: How excited are you to have fun die?
Fun will not die, not as long as I'm around.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on May 31, 2008, 10:59:18 AM
"Patriots, Cowboys, 49ers, Bears" better be a list of teams you hate.

Note: I don't mean that no one can be a fan of any of those teams (even if it says something awful about them as human beings, at least in the case of Patriots and Cowboys fans), but simply that it can't be possible to like all four teams. For example, liking the 49ers has to preclude you from liking the Cowboys.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on May 31, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
Wallace,

I must take exception with your indication that your favorite board game was: "None." Favorite refers to the one you like the most (a sliding scale) and not whether or not you actually like the particular game that is your favorite.  Surely you do not dislike chess and Hungry Hungry Hippos equally. Please, man.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on May 31, 2008, 03:13:15 PM

Note: I don't mean that no one can be a fan of any of those teams (even if it says something awful about them as human beings, at least in the case of Patriots and Cowboys fans), but simply that it can't be possible to like all four teams. For example, liking the 49ers has to preclude you from liking the Cowboys.

I think that's about right, but I have to admit...

I've been a die-hard Yankees fan/Red Sox hater my whole life, and that's still true, but I'll admit that once the Yankees get knocked out of the playoffs, if the Sox are still in it, a small part of me roots for the Sox.

There is a special place in hell for people like you.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on May 31, 2008, 03:28:00 PM
I believe

Note: I don't mean that no one can be a fan of any of those teams (even if it says something awful about them as human beings, at least in the case of Patriots and Cowboys fans), but simply that it can't be possible to like all four teams. For example, liking the 49ers has to preclude you from liking the Cowboys.

I think that's about right, but I have to admit...

I've been a die-hard Yankees fan/Red Sox hater my whole life, and that's still true, but I'll admit that once the Yankees get knocked out of the playoffs, if the Sox are still in it, a small part of me roots for the Sox.

There is a special place in hell for people like you.

I believe that it would be Zone 1 or Zone 2 of the Ninth Circle (traitors)... just one circle away from the Patriots fans on the Eighth Circle ("diseases on society").
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 02, 2008, 09:14:20 AM
I want my damn Chicago e-mail account.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 02, 2008, 10:02:38 AM
And like magic, my e-mail account was activated this morning. Ask and be answered, apparently.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on June 02, 2008, 01:13:27 PM
And like magic, my e-mail account was activated this morning. Ask and be answered, apparently.

Thanks for the heads-up!  Mine started working this morning too.  Maybe they're all up now?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 02, 2008, 01:24:15 PM
I wonder if this means that the Class of 2011 can now experience the joys of [LawAnnounce]?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on June 02, 2008, 02:49:09 PM
mine isn't working yet
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Somewhere on June 02, 2008, 06:20:44 PM
https://cnet.uchicago.edu/claimacct/index.jsp
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 02, 2008, 06:45:34 PM
https://cnet.uchicago.edu/claimacct/index.jsp

Oh, you're kidding me.  I don't even know where to get those numbers, and I would prefer not to use my SS.

I thought they would assign them.


You get to pick your own - all you have to do is put your SS# to verify your identity, it's not like your email will be SS#@uchicago.edu or something.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on June 02, 2008, 11:58:48 PM
4. Favorite type of food?
Steak, Mashed potatoes, asparagus and freshly baked bread.

My dinner tonight:  steak, baked potato, asparagus, and Italian bread from the grocery store.

Close enough?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on June 03, 2008, 01:59:49 AM

Note: I don't mean that no one can be a fan of any of those teams (even if it says something awful about them as human beings, at least in the case of Patriots and Cowboys fans), but simply that it can't be possible to like all four teams. For example, liking the 49ers has to preclude you from liking the Cowboys.

I think that's about right, but I have to admit...

I've been a die-hard Yankees fan/Red Sox hater my whole life, and that's still true, but I'll admit that once the Yankees get knocked out of the playoffs, if the Sox are still in it, a small part of me roots for the Sox.

There is a special place in hell for people like you.

I lived a block away from Fenway for 4 years...totally understanable.  Of the many things I might end up in hell for, occasionally sorta rooting for the Red Sox  has to be near the bottom of the list.

weirddd...i was scrolling up from the bottom of hte page and saw your post bosco, and i was like, hey, i lived by fenway!  who is this?? lol.  obviously legislation has fried my brain
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on June 03, 2008, 11:21:36 AM
4. Favorite type of food?
Steak, Mashed potatoes, asparagus and freshly baked bread.

My dinner tonight:  steak, baked potato, asparagus, and Italian bread from the grocery store.

Close enough?

Its close - but I don't think I'd say close enough. The mashed potatoes are really important. A baked potato just can't pick up the excess blood like mashed potatoes do.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on June 04, 2008, 12:58:53 AM
If Obama does win, I wonder if it'd affect the law school.  Maybe it would lead to more prominence, more impressive applicants matriculating, more money, etc.  Or maybe he'd eviscerate Chicago's faculty with drool-worthy administrative and judicial appointments.  Unless they're all as conservative as I've heard  ;D
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 04, 2008, 07:43:43 AM
Yet another win (in spirit) for Omar from the Wire.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 04, 2008, 08:51:15 AM
If Obama does win, I wonder if it'd affect the law school.  Maybe it would lead to more prominence, more impressive applicants matriculating, more money, etc.  Or maybe he'd eviscerate Chicago's faculty with drool-worthy administrative and judicial appointments.  Unless they're all as conservative as I've heard  ;D

Some TV channel came into our contracts class to tape us for a documentary they were doing on Obama.  Posner was rolling his eyes the whole time.  It was pretty great.  So there's that.

They were also doing one of those "walk and talk b roll" segments with Sunstein. You know, how you always see a framing shot of the interviewer and interviewee walking down a hallway or something (usually there is a voice over going on talking about something). Anyway, I didn't realize this at first, and I was apparently make an obscene gesture in the background. Hopefully they catch it in editing.

Hold up, don't you have an exam... well, right at the time you were posting this? Wow, now thats being laid back.

If Obama does win, I wonder if it'd affect the law school.  Maybe it would lead to more prominence, more impressive applicants matriculating, more money, etc.  Or maybe he'd eviscerate Chicago's faculty with drool-worthy administrative and judicial appointments.  Unless they're all as conservative as I've heard  ;D

Our regular faculty is overwhelmingly left of center.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 09, 2008, 08:10:46 AM
Bump for the beginning of the week.  Anyone else disappointed that they didn't go to the Blues Festival?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on June 09, 2008, 09:21:13 AM
is anyone going to lollapalooza the first 3 days of august?  i already have tickets, although i won't be moving up til late august.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: mmg3327 on June 10, 2008, 07:04:56 AM
Did any of you choose Chicago over NYU?  If so, can you elaborate on why?  I'm struggling to make the decision...

(I posted this in the "Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls..." thread too)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 10, 2008, 09:37:58 AM
is anyone going to lollapalooza the first 3 days of august?  i already have tickets, although i won't be moving up til late august.

Yes, probably, and likely Pitchfork in July, too.

I'll be there too.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ArthurKing on June 10, 2008, 12:41:04 PM
Did any of you choose Chicago over NYU?  If so, can you elaborate on why?  I'm struggling to make the decision...

(I posted this in the "Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls..." thread too)

There are only two reasons why I'd select NYU: 1. If you have a SUBSTANTIALLY superior (meaning ... at least 50% more, i.e. to give you more money even when taking into account cost of living difference, which is huge) scholarship offer, or, 2. if you have strong local ties / a burning desire to be a part of NY. Even then, I'd add caveats to each position: on 1, you can always negotiate between law schools using various offers as leverage. Sometimes works. Sometimes doesn't. On #2: NY is overhyped for many; even for those who really 'adore' it, it would be inapt to chose a school based on the setting - you'll have MANY many many years in which to surround yourself w./ NY if that's your thing. (if you have family in region and that's a motivating factor, that's a different story)

Um... I guess I could think of a third: if you went to Chicago & really felt a culture clash / didn't enjoy the surroundings and simultaneously, hit NYU and thought 'I'd love it here'

Barring a STRONG showing of those reasons, you'd be crazy to select NYU (or Penn or, arguably, Columbia or, amongst serious students, even Stanford) over Chicago. Yes, I know, sacrilege: how can someone be trumpeting a school that ... pause ... fell in the US NEWS rank this year? The reality is that rankings come and go: what lasts is the quality of the education you receieve AND the quality of your peers as businessmen and scholars and influential members of the future society. Outside of two schools, the education that you can get at Chicago is pretty much unparalleled. (If you like econ, the education you can get at Chicago is unparalleled, simply put). The quality of the faculty is suberb. The classes (and class) are smaller than NYU. The students are more serious (if that's your thing - its not a buzzkill place despite reputation, but I'm simply saying you can access serious intellectual discussion re: law pretty much whenever you want amongst your classmates without being looked at as 'odd' or 'violating the strict 9-5 divide between law school and life ... God forbid'), the research opportunities are tremendous, the firms, particularly outside of NY, hold Chicago in higher regard, and your access to academia / clerkships / government institutions is far better via a Chicago degree.

Hope this helps! (seriously, not being sarcastic!  ;D)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 10, 2008, 01:40:21 PM
I didn't apply to NYU so I don't have much to add, but I would strongly recommend visiting both. Secondhand sources are fine but you really have to be on the ground in order to make a determination of whether you think you'll actually like going to school somewhere.

If your goal is simply biglaw, then just choose which one you like more and go there - no real difference there.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on June 11, 2008, 09:19:58 AM
Did any of you choose Chicago over NYU?  If so, can you elaborate on why?  I'm struggling to make the decision...

(I posted this in the "Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls..." thread too)

Have you visited both schools?  For me, the decision came down to Chicago vs. Columbia.  For some reason, both times I visited NYU (both on my own and at their ASW), I got a really bad vibe off the place.  There really wasn't anything specific, I just didn't like it.  On the other hand, really liked Columbia.

The only specific thing I would point you to is to make sure you get a realistic cost of attendance.  When I visited, they took us on a tour of the NYU dorms.  We walked into a tiny two-bedroom shoebox in D'Ag, and the girl inside kind of sheepishly said "Well, this is the cheapest one; you can get something bigger if you're willing to spend a bit more money."  I asked her how much it cost, and she said something like $1300 a month.  Then I asked "Well, how are you affording even the cheapest one?  The student budget for housing is only $1250 a month," and she responded "You can basically ignore that student budget.  It is totally ridiculous."

That was four years ago though, so things may have changed.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 11, 2008, 08:22:09 PM
I didn't like NYU either. A lot of it was instinctive, like MTG said, but I did have a few concrete things I didn't like: the class size, the apartment I would have to stay in (they showed me the most expensive one and it still felt like a closet), the quarter system, etc.

A lot of other things weren't necessarily bad at NYU, but I just preferred them more at Chicago: faculty, faculty/student interaction, the students (current and prospective), the city of Chicago compared to NYC, and a few others.

I'm really not going to be much help in a Chicago/NYU decision, since I dismissed NYU from my consideration pretty quickly, so I'll just stop here.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on June 12, 2008, 02:20:05 AM
Did any of you choose Chicago over NYU?  If so, can you elaborate on why?  I'm struggling to make the decision...

(I posted this in the "Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls..." thread too)

I'm not a student yet, but I just recently picked Chicago over NYU.  Everyone is right -- visit both.  My visits virtually made my decision for me.  NYU was nice, with a lot of obviously smart people, but I spent a day and a half lurking in classes and it just didn't click with me.  I got rubbed the wrong way by a couple of students and the general vibe just turned me off. 

I was amazed by Chicago during my two days of lurking.  I loved every class I sat through (while I didn't "love" any particular class at NYU).  I hope I get Levmore for Torts!  The students were, well, a lot nerdier.  And that's definitely my thing.  Many students are willing (and happy!) to chat in-depth about random academic legal issues outside of class -- I spent an hour or so talking to one guy about his use of behavioral economics in policy research.  Incredible.  It reminded me of grad school! 

In short, they're very different places, and you can't easily capture some differences without visiting.  It's a shame classes aren't in session anymore -- you won't get as clear a vibe over the summer.

Here are some substantive differences that also helped me: 

Chicago is a lot smaller, and that affects: intimacy (closer rapport with faculty/staff, more discussion, more people know you with less effort), access to desirable classes (any comments current students?), and just generally feeling less "packed."  It also affects the rarity of Chicago grads -- they aren't as common in biglaw as NYU grads.  On the one hand, this will limit the alumni network.  On the other, there's more demand for fewer grads.  These likely cancel each other out.  All else being equal, I personally prefer a less-commonly seen (but still respected) school.  Feels a little more special!

Also, this might not matter to you, but Chicago's faculty seems to have a higher "superstar" ratio than NYU's.  I know there are plenty of great profs at NYU, but the classes I sat through were a mixed bag.  At Chicago, I sat in classes taught by Levmore, Baird, Nussbaum, Posner (E), and a great visiting prof whose name I can't remember.  Not only are they all amazing scholars, they were also amazing teachers -- a rare combination.  And I got the impression that this sort of powerhouse class lineup isn't unusual.  Since I'm incredibly geeky, this won me over.  If you're not, well, that might be something to consider too.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 12, 2008, 05:07:36 AM
Also, this might not matter to you, but Chicago's faculty seems to have a higher "superstar" ratio than NYU's.  I know there are plenty of great profs at NYU, but the classes I sat through were a mixed bag.  At Chicago, I sat in classes taught by Levmore, Baird, Nussbaum, Posner (E), and a great visiting prof whose name I can't remember.  Not only are they all amazing scholars, they were also amazing teachers -- a rare combination.  And I got the impression that this sort of powerhouse class lineup isn't unusual.  Since I'm incredibly geeky, this won me over.  If you're not, well, that might be something to consider too.

It should also be said that Chicago tries to introduce the great professors to students very early on. This past year 1L professors included, in addition to the people you just named, professors like Cass Sunstein, Richard Epstein, David Strauss, Lior Strahilevitz, Adam Samaha, Judge Diane Wood, and a lot more other "names" (although, you'll soon realize some of the non-names are better profs than the names).

To use the latest objective measure available on profs right now (LINK (http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2007faculty_impact_areas.shtml)), of the 8 Chicago profs who made that list who were here the past year, a whopping 7 of them taught a 1L class (the only one who did not was David Weisbach, a tax prof). Thats kinda impressive.

But just to reiterate: big name doesn't always mean the best. For example, while my favorite professor this year was probably Epstein, most others weren't as big a fan of his class.

Chicago also generally has a higher teaching load for professors than other top law schools (this could be affecting faculty hiring/retention, but it does mean the people we do hire/retain are ones who like to teach), although this could change given the faculty expansion we'll be having next year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 12, 2008, 10:45:48 AM
Quote
Chicago also generally has a higher teaching load for professors than other top law schools (this could be affecting faculty hiring/retention, but it does mean the people we do hire/retain are ones who like to teach), although this could change given the faculty expansion we'll be having next year.

Can you elaborate? I hadn't heard anything about a faculty expansion.

I didn't apply to any New York schools, mainly because I'm not thrilled about the notion of living in expensive New York on borrowed money. Also, the only substantive difference between the opportunities you get out of NYU and Chicago seems to be a slightly better shot at academia out of Chicago--probably not unrelated to the closer relationships you can develop with professors.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 13, 2008, 04:26:52 AM
We have Biglaw-sponsored lunches and event every day, it's not big deal. I always wondered how far down the law school food chain the sponsorships go.

Our end of year BBQ yesterday was sponsored by Weil.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 13, 2008, 07:13:00 AM
Yes, I imagine all schools are rolling around in law firm money, both in terms of events and other little gifts students get.

Biglaw gifts runs from the unique (MoFo bibs! Morton's Steakhouse! Wachtell Booze Cruise! Law firm branded gum?) to the boring (Vedder Price study aids... another freaking water bottle...).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 13, 2008, 07:23:16 AM
Quote
Chicago also generally has a higher teaching load for professors than other top law schools (this could be affecting faculty hiring/retention, but it does mean the people we do hire/retain are ones who like to teach), although this could change given the faculty expansion we'll be having next year.

Can you elaborate? I hadn't heard anything about a faculty expansion.

Next year Chicago is going to have the largest full-time faculty they've had in recent memory. Its not a major expansion or anything (like what Harvard did/is doing), but it still a bit of an expansion. We're only losing one full-time faculty member (Sunstein; who will be visiting, but he's no longer considered "full-time" here), but we're gaining at least 6 new full-time profs (Leiter from Texas, Tom Ginsburg from Illinois, Omri Ben-Shahar from Michigan, and 3 entry level hires). And I think a couple offers are still pending that people may end up accepting. A net gain of five may not seem like much... but it is when you remember that our full-time faculty is only about 30 people right now.

Either way, this apparently
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 15, 2008, 01:34:39 AM

Next year Chicago is going to have the largest full-time faculty they've had in recent memory. Its not a major expansion or anything (like what Harvard did/is doing), but it still a bit of an expansion. We're only losing one full-time faculty member (Sunstein; who will be visiting, but he's no longer considered "full-time" here), but we're gaining at least 6 new full-time profs (Leiter from Texas, Tom Ginsburg from Illinois, Omri Ben-Shahar from Michigan, and 3 entry level hires). And I think a couple offers are still pending that people may end up accepting. A net gain of five may not seem like much... but it is when you remember that our full-time faculty is only about 30 people right now.

Either way, this apparently

BUMP! for... pre, do you want to finish your sentence? I'd only heard aobut Leiter and Sunstein, so this is all very interesting.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 15, 2008, 07:07:13 AM
Whoa. I honestly don't remember what I was exactly going to say there.

Perhaps I was going to say that a faculty expansion, coupled with our already extensive course catalog, could lead to a reduction in the teaching load that Chicago usually has professors taking? But I'm not sure about that.

I don't think there is anything more to write about specific full-time faculty moves, beyond what I already wrote: one is leaving and six that are coming in (and a couple other offers are out there). If you're wondering about the 3 entry level hires that I didn't name, they are Daniel Abebe (who was a Bigelow fellow here for the last 2 years) and two SJD graduates from Harvard (Anu Bradford and Rosalind Dixon). Not exactly sure who the still-pending offers are out to, but I have a couple guesses.

We have a couple professors visiting other schools next year, and a few professors visiting our school next year, but that happens every year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on June 15, 2008, 10:55:13 AM
Whoa. I honestly don't remember what I was exactly going to say there.

Perhaps I was going to say that a faculty expansion, coupled with our already extensive course catalog, could lead to a reduction in the teaching load that Chicago usually has professors taking? But I'm not sure about that.

I don't think there is anything more to write about specific full-time faculty moves, beyond what I already wrote: one is leaving and six that are coming in (and a couple other offers are out there). If you're wondering about the 3 entry level hires that I didn't name, they are Daniel Abebe (who was a Bigelow fellow here for the last 2 years) and two SJD graduates from Harvard (Anu Bradford and Rosalind Dixon). Not exactly sure who the still-pending offers are out to, but I have a couple guesses.

We have a couple professors visiting other schools next year, and a few professors visiting our school next year, but that happens every year.

How do you know things and I don't?  That just pisses me off.   :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 15, 2008, 11:57:47 AM
You're pissed whenever I know things that you don't? You know sb, its really not healthy to be pissed all the time.


(but seriously: I think most of the stuff in my post is public information by now, available at a lot of places; the things I didn't write, like the possible offers we have out, I just know from talking to other people... and I'm pretty sure you've actually been present at at least a few of those conversations)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 15, 2008, 03:31:18 PM
don't leiter and solum both compile lists of laterals and new hires? i suspect just following those feeds would be a good way to stay up to date, if you're interested in academia.

Yup, both of them put out lists of that sort of thing. Another blog does visiting profs as well.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on June 15, 2008, 08:38:19 PM
Yup, both of them put out lists of that sort of thing. Another blog does visiting profs as well.

You seem pretty in-the-loop. Or at least you fake it well, which is just as good. Can you do some research and find out which of the new profs are worth taking classes from, and which I should avoid? Actually, just picking all my classes next year would be helpful. Please be sure to select a good mix of paper classes and test classes.

Thanks!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on June 18, 2008, 09:14:48 PM
Does anybody have any idea when the schedule for orientation will come out?  I was just browsing through last years, and it looked pretty exciting.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: randomman on June 18, 2008, 09:49:28 PM
where did you find last year's?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on June 19, 2008, 06:32:07 PM
Its on the Chicago Law Website under Students.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 19, 2008, 06:40:16 PM
It looks like it's this year's schedule now: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/students/orientation_schedule.html. Or else they changed the dates and slapped "Class of 2011" on the old one.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 19, 2008, 06:57:42 PM
It looks like it's this year's schedule now: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/students/orientation_schedule.html. Or else they changed the dates and slapped "Class of 2011" on the old one.




Redacted - my reading comp score apparently wasn't very good.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 19, 2008, 07:02:00 PM
You don't think this counts? I guess an hour might not be sufficient:

Quote
Wednesday, September 24th
# 2:45 – 3:45  What to Expect During your First Class?
 * Discuss Case Briefing and Academic Resources with Academic Counselors and Bigelow Buddies

Want to tell us what you wish you'd known?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 19, 2008, 07:04:52 PM
You don't think this counts? I guess an hour might not be sufficient:

Quote
Wednesday, September 24th
# 2:45 – 3:45  What to Expect During your First Class?
 * Discuss Case Briefing and Academic Resources with Academic Counselors and Bigelow Buddies

Want to tell us what you wish you'd known?


My comment is completely redacted - that's exactly what I was talking about. Apparently watching TV and eating dinner and posting on LSD at the same time does not lead me to pay attention very much.

Bravo law school admin - I think that will be very helpful.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 20, 2008, 07:52:35 AM
For those still interested in the faculty hiring stuff, official announcement of 7 new academic hires and one clinical hire (the new name is a guy from NYU):

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/faculty_additions_2008/index.html

I think we have/had lateral offers out to at least one, and maybe two, other people (I know the name of one of them, but just the school of the other possibility), but I don't know if they accepted, declined, or haven't answered yet. Still, 7 new academic faculty members is pretty huge considering our faculty size.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 20, 2008, 10:43:50 AM
Hmm, "the center of gravity is in international law and comparative law." Not UChicago's traditional strong suit, is it? Those hires sound great.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: deadfun on June 20, 2008, 01:11:22 PM
   
Bradford is totally going to be a heartbreaker. At the very least she will flummox some great legal minds.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/graduate/sjd_candidates/anubradford/
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 20, 2008, 01:25:37 PM
hobbes and I were talking a bit about the Big Sibling (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/students/bigsibling.html) program and couldn't really come to a consensus about whether or not it'd be cool/useful/whatever.  Anybody have any thoughts?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 20, 2008, 01:45:28 PM
hobbes and I were talking a bit about the Big Sibling (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/students/bigsibling.html) program and couldn't really come to a consensus about whether or not it'd be cool/useful/whatever.  Anybody have any thoughts?

I signed up to be a big, so it's going to be awesome. thread closed.

I can't talk about it from the little perspective, but I imagine it might be nice - in all actuality you'll eventually find a group of upperclassmen who you bounce questions off of informally.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 20, 2008, 02:15:11 PM
Yeah, I signed up for the big sibling thing too, but I don't really expect much to come from it (although this year could be different). Really, you'll find 2Ls and 3L friends who you can definitely talk to about the sort of stuff you're assigned a big sibling for.

The past year the sibling thing was a waste. I think they announced the pairings during winter quarter, so far along in the year that most of us really didn't need to be assigned a 2L or 3L to ask questions. I never even met my big sibling; we exchanged a couple emails and then just kinda mutually dropped the whole thing. Thats probably why they're doing it differently this year, introducing siblings in the first quarter and all.

Still, can't hurt to sign up.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 20, 2008, 02:33:06 PM
Nothing wrong with that. MindTheGap and Hazard gave a lot of great advice to us last year (although I knew them more from a shared student organization than from LSD). And the members of the class of 2010 are undeniably better than 2008 and 2009, so I imagine we're even better at giving advice.

edit: Whoops, clairel as well with the great advice. And any others that popped in occasionally.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 20, 2008, 05:21:59 PM
Yeah, I signed up for the big sibling thing too, but I don't really expect much to come from it (although this year could be different). Really, you'll find 2Ls and 3L friends who you can definitely talk to about the sort of stuff you're assigned a big sibling for.

The past year the sibling thing was a waste. I think they announced the pairings during winter quarter, so far along in the year that most of us really didn't need to be assigned a 2L or 3L to ask questions. I never even met my big sibling; we exchanged a couple emails and then just kinda mutually dropped the whole thing. Because of that, they're doing it differently this year. Thats probably why they're doing it differently this year.

Still, can't hurt to sign up.

Sold.  Worst case scenario (barring weirdo stalkers) is I won't have any questions, which isn't so bad.  pre - are you the one who's looking for a place outside of Hyde Park?  You should come up to Wicker Park/Ukrainian Village and hang with all us cool kids  8)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 20, 2008, 06:09:53 PM
pre - are you the one who's looking for a place outside of Hyde Park?  You should come up to Wicker Park/Ukrainian Village and hang with all us cool kids  8)

I was, but after looking up North for awhile, I got tired of it and decided to stay in Hyde Park. Just found a place today, actually. Much nicer apartment for considerably less money than it would be up north. But I did move out of Regents (thats if the couple I'm hoping to lease from accept my application, which they probably will, but I shall hear back tomorrow).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 21, 2008, 03:47:48 PM
Our new faculty http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/faculty_additions_2008/index.html

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 22, 2008, 12:13:37 PM
So many 2010ers here.  Goodness.  I'm just stopping by to potential-roommate fish -- my current roommate has other plans for next year, and I don't want to adjust my budget up several thousand to live alone if I don't have to.  If anyone's looking to lower their cost of living and would be interested in splitting a 2bd in Regents (or elsewhere in the neighborhood) drop me a message.  I'm a rising 2L, and come with awesome outlines (no, really, they're unspeakably awesome) and some furniture (and one cat).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 22, 2008, 12:33:23 PM
So many 2010ers here.  Goodness.  I'm just stopping by to potential-roommate fish -- my current roommate has other plans for next year, and I don't want to adjust my budget up several thousand to live alone if I don't have to.  If anyone's looking to lower their cost of living and would be interested in splitting a 2bd in Regents (or elsewhere in the neighborhood) drop me a message.  I'm a rising 2L, and come with awesome outlines (no, really, they're unspeakably awesome) and some furniture (and one cat).


Nevermind, I figured it out. :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 22, 2008, 01:04:53 PM
So many 2010ers here.  Goodness.  I'm just stopping by to potential-roommate fish -- my current roommate has other plans for next year, and I don't want to adjust my budget up several thousand to live alone if I don't have to.  If anyone's looking to lower their cost of living and would be interested in splitting a 2bd in Regents (or elsewhere in the neighborhood) drop me a message.  I'm a rising 2L, and come with awesome outlines (no, really, they're unspeakably awesome) and some furniture (and one cat).


Nevermind, I figured it out. :)

Funnily enough, I still don't know for sure who you are.  I have an idea, but I'm not positive.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 22, 2008, 01:20:50 PM
So many 2010ers here.  Goodness.  I'm just stopping by to potential-roommate fish -- my current roommate has other plans for next year, and I don't want to adjust my budget up several thousand to live alone if I don't have to.  If anyone's looking to lower their cost of living and would be interested in splitting a 2bd in Regents (or elsewhere in the neighborhood) drop me a message.  I'm a rising 2L, and come with awesome outlines (no, really, they're unspeakably awesome) and some furniture (and one cat).


Nevermind, I figured it out. :)

Funnily enough, I still don't know for sure who you are.  I have an idea, but I'm not positive.


Well, let me see if I'm right. Have you ever posted here under a different name?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 22, 2008, 01:26:48 PM
So many 2010ers here.  Goodness.  I'm just stopping by to potential-roommate fish -- my current roommate has other plans for next year, and I don't want to adjust my budget up several thousand to live alone if I don't have to.  If anyone's looking to lower their cost of living and would be interested in splitting a 2bd in Regents (or elsewhere in the neighborhood) drop me a message.  I'm a rising 2L, and come with awesome outlines (no, really, they're unspeakably awesome) and some furniture (and one cat).


Nevermind, I figured it out. :)

Funnily enough, I still don't know for sure who you are.  I have an idea, but I'm not positive.


Well, let me see if I'm right. Have you ever posted here under a different name?

You probably are.  I used to have a different name, but I forgot my password. 

Delicious >> No, not transferring in or out of Chicago.  I have occasionally thought about moving to rural Southern Italy and buying some buffalo and a farm and making delicious mozzarella for a living, but instead I am still here.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 22, 2008, 01:36:58 PM
The 2011 people need to re-claim this thread.  Come on, 11ers.  Let's get this act together.   :P


It'll never happen - we're the most LSDriffic class ever!

I'm so bored - living downtown in a city that shuts down at 5pm on Friday where I don't know anyone or have a car. LSD is all I have.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 22, 2008, 02:57:09 PM
Wait, I thought you were in NYC.   ???

I agree that 2010 did a superior job of outLSDing us . . . for now.

I think it's probably going to continue, man.  Have you seen the facebook group?  The group picture should be changed to a picture of tumbleweeds and a couple of deserted old western saloons.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 22, 2008, 03:30:16 PM
Wait, I thought you were in NYC.   ???

I agree that 2010 did a superior job of outLSDing us . . . for now.

Nah, secondary market in the midwest. It's a fun city, but there's not much within walking distance downtown on the weekend (more of a driving city).


I'm trying to join a gym so I'll have more things to do (like go swimming, play basketball, etc.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on June 23, 2008, 09:17:24 AM
So many 2010ers here.  Goodness.  I'm just stopping by to potential-roommate fish -- my current roommate has other plans for next year, and I don't want to adjust my budget up several thousand to live alone if I don't have to.  If anyone's looking to lower their cost of living and would be interested in splitting a 2bd in Regents (or elsewhere in the neighborhood) drop me a message.  I'm a rising 2L, and come with awesome outlines (no, really, they're unspeakably awesome) and some furniture (and one cat).


Nevermind, I figured it out. :)

Funnily enough, I still don't know for sure who you are.  I have an idea, but I'm not positive.

I had a long discussion with another rising 2L about who I thought you were...and then realized that I could have easily saved myself the trouble by clicking on your profile (and I was right!)

I didn't know you were looking into moving into Regents! 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 23, 2008, 02:27:48 PM
Uh!

Na na na na...

They're the ones that are supposed to be saying "Uh!" y'know.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 23, 2008, 05:15:22 PM
So many 2010ers here.  Goodness.  I'm just stopping by to potential-roommate fish -- my current roommate has other plans for next year, and I don't want to adjust my budget up several thousand to live alone if I don't have to.  If anyone's looking to lower their cost of living and would be interested in splitting a 2bd in Regents (or elsewhere in the neighborhood) drop me a message.  I'm a rising 2L, and come with awesome outlines (no, really, they're unspeakably awesome) and some furniture (and one cat).


Nevermind, I figured it out. :)

Funnily enough, I still don't know for sure who you are.  I have an idea, but I'm not positive.

I had a long discussion with another rising 2L about who I thought you were...and then realized that I could have easily saved myself the trouble by clicking on your profile (and I was right!)

I didn't know you were looking into moving into Regents! 

What, my natural aura didn't shine right through and make it obvious? 

I'm not looking at Regents for myself; it's out of my price range.  It's one of the only good options with a roommate, though.  Everything "2 bedroom" around here is often grad-student centered with a master bedroom and a tiny nursery/den.  $800 for half a two bedroom at Regents is a good buy, considering I'll probably end up forking over $980 for the cheapest livable 1 bedroom in Hyde Park.  Augh.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 23, 2008, 05:52:20 PM
At this rate, this thread will soon be "UC 2010."   :P


We probably do need another thread. Or at least another place where I can incessantly female dog about how our legal writing grade isn't out yet.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 23, 2008, 09:15:13 PM
At this rate, this thread will soon be "UC 2010."   :P


We probably do need another thread. Or at least another place where I can incessantly female dog about how our legal writing grade isn't out yet.

You actually want it?  I have a good idea of what I'm getting and frankly have no need or desire to check my grades.


...Really, though, why is this thread completely devoid of fresh-faced 1Ls?  Did you run them all off?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 23, 2008, 10:27:08 PM
I'm a fresh-faced 1L.  *raises hand* 

And I'm mesmerized by that wide-eyed gerbil-kitten thing.  (What is that?)  Are you the only one?  That'll be a lonely 1L year.  2010ers can't seem to leave this place.  Either they're (we're) more gregarious or can't get over internet addictions.  (probably both).  On that note, sit in the front row next year.  There's internet.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 24, 2008, 04:56:39 AM
At this rate, this thread will soon be "UC 2010."   :P


We probably do need another thread. Or at least another place where I can incessantly female dog about how our legal writing grade isn't out yet.

You actually want it?  I have a good idea of what I'm getting and frankly have no need or desire to check my grades.


...Really, though, why is this thread completely devoid of fresh-faced 1Ls?  Did you run them all off?


I don't really have high hopes for any of our grades but I just want them to come out. I just think it's stupid that our LRW grade has been turned in for weeks and we haven't gotten it. Unless the school wants to do one of those things where they give us a date when all of our grade will magically be posted I'd rather they put them up ASAP after they come in.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 24, 2008, 06:47:47 AM
At this rate, this thread will soon be "UC 2010."   :P


We probably do need another thread. Or at least another place where I can incessantly female dog about how our legal writing grade isn't out yet.

You actually want it?  I have a good idea of what I'm getting and frankly have no need or desire to check my grades.


...Really, though, why is this thread completely devoid of fresh-faced 1Ls?  Did you run them all off?


I don't really have high hopes for any of our grades but I just want them to come out. I just think it's stupid that our LRW grade has been turned in for weeks and we haven't gotten it. Unless the school wants to do one of those things where they give us a date when all of our grade will magically be posted I'd rather they put them up ASAP after they come in.

It's so that - theoretically - nobody really knows if they're going to grade onto Law Review.  Grades will all be released around July 4 (though I've heard that Judge Wood's grades often come in late, so Civ Pro grades might not go up for awhile after that.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on June 24, 2008, 08:17:55 AM
At this rate, this thread will soon be "UC 2010."   :P

'08 IN THE HOUSE.

represent
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 24, 2008, 08:34:39 AM
At this rate, this thread will soon be "UC 2010."   :P

'08 IN THE HOUSE.

represent

Time for a swan song?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 24, 2008, 10:38:50 AM
I'm a 2011 too. But we hardly have anything to talk about. What the hell do people who've never met each other say about a law school they've never attended?

Movies? WALL*E is awesome, people. Truly. See it Friday so you can go back Sunday.

Books? So I have this library copy of NETHERLAND that's due Friday. But I'm going out of town until Sunday. Should I incur the 30 cent fine in order to have something decent to read on the plane?

Music? I hardly listen to music anymore. Is something wrong with me?

Law we don't know squat about yet? So how about SCOTUS agreeing to hear the keening of the whales?

This is hopeless. Who ISN'T living in Regents?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 24, 2008, 10:40:40 AM
'11 reppin'.  But of course the other two incoming 1Ls already knew that.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 24, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
ROAR.

Who's got to get a tetanus shot? ;]
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on June 24, 2008, 11:14:45 AM
ROAR.

Who's got to get a tetanus shot? ;]

Seriously, do this.  They wouldn't register me for winter classes until after the quarter started (I went anyway, but it was really annoying).


And seatochitown, I find all sorts of ways to engage in inane banter with people I've never met.  I don't know if this means I have well-developed social skills or am actually a troll.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 24, 2008, 11:56:50 AM
ROAR.

Who's got to get a tetanus shot? ;]

Seriously, do this.  They wouldn't register me for winter classes until after the quarter started (I went anyway, but it was really annoying).

Yes. Get the shots and, more importantly, make sure that the form is incredibly legible AND the health people at UChicago receive it all. I got all my shots, but they refused to acknowledge one of them since apparently the date my doctor wrote was "not clearly legible." I eventually had to get a second shot just for the sake of their records.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 24, 2008, 12:38:26 PM
Wow, this is good to know.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on June 24, 2008, 12:44:31 PM
ROAR.

Who's got to get a tetanus shot? ;]

Seriously, do this.  They wouldn't register me for winter classes until after the quarter started (I went anyway, but it was really annoying).

Yes. Get the shots and, more importantly, make sure that the form is incredibly legible AND the health people at UChicago receive it all. I got all my shots, but they refused to acknowledge one of them since apparently the date my doctor wrote was "not clearly legible." I eventually had to get a second shot just for the sake of their records.

My Bigelow 1L year was my pediatrician's daughter.  I had no problems with my shot records :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on June 24, 2008, 02:45:57 PM
ok, lets get some convo going on:

What types of music do you guys like? (Aside from the guy/gal who said that he/she couldn't listen to music any more. There is something wrong with you)

Anyone know the best places to see live music in Chicago?

What about free museums?

Of what quality is the Chicago gym? Anybody know if personal training is free there?

My wife and I's housing assignment is at the corner of Ingleside and 61st. Anyone know the building? Is it worth a crap? The fact that they (graduate housing) don't have pictures of the inside of their apartments online has got me worried, though the floor plan looks alright.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on June 24, 2008, 02:53:25 PM
Quote
I'm a 2011 too. But we hardly have anything to talk about. What the hell do people who've never met each other say about a law school they've never attended?

Movies? WALL*E is awesome, people. Truly. See it Friday so you can go back Sunday.

I'm taking your word for it. It better be good. Anybody seen the Orphanage? Its just out on DVD. Best ghost movie of the decade. Check it out.

Quote
Books? So I have this library copy of NETHERLAND that's due Friday. But I'm going out of town until Sunday. Should I incur the 30 cent fine in order to have something decent to read on the plane?

Keep it. I'm rereading Tom Wolf's Man in Full. I think its probably the best of his novels (and that includes Bonfire of the Vanities)

Quote
Law we don't know squat about yet? So how about SCOTUS agreeing to hear the keening of the whales?

I don't even know what keening of the whales means.
But I am interested in jury nullification, especially in the context of the war on drugs. Any thoughts?

Quote
This is hopeless. Who ISN'T living in Regents?

Me. See above.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on June 24, 2008, 03:08:31 PM
Of what quality is the Chicago gym? Anybody know if personal training is free there?

Is personal training free anywhere?  It's not a Chicago, but I know of no gyms where it is, so that's not surprising.

I have never set foot in the gym, but I am a lazy lazy human being.  I have friends who are big fans - neat and clean, good group classes, generally quality.  My bf finds it acceptable, not great, but I think that is largely because it is not filled with the trophy wives that populate his normal gym.   ::)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on June 24, 2008, 03:14:54 PM
Of what quality is the Chicago gym? Anybody know if personal training is free there?

Is personal training free anywhere?  It's not a Chicago, but I know of no gyms where it is, so that's not surprising.

I have never set foot in the gym, but I am a lazy lazy human being.  I have friends who are big fans - neat and clean, good group classes, generally quality.  My bf finds it acceptable, not great, but I think that is largely because it is not filled with the trophy wives that populate his normal gym.   ::)
it was free at my ug because the kinesiology students got credit for it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 24, 2008, 03:29:55 PM
ok, lets get some convo going on:

What types of music do you guys like? (Aside from the guy/gal who said that he/she couldn't listen to music any more. There is something wrong with you)

Anyone know the best places to see live music in Chicago?

What about free museums?

Of what quality is the Chicago gym? Anybody know if personal training is free there?

Music-wise, I have pretty broad tastes.  Currently I'm trying to get into jazz fusion (after I'm finished listening to what I've got, I'm going to start working my way back through various other types of jazz) and listening to a bunch of old late '70s - mid '80s electronica (from Suicide to New Order). 

There are a TON of great music venues in Chicago, but you're probably going to have to be specific about what type of shows you want to go to.  What type of music do YOU like?  Subterranean, Double Door, Metro, and the Empty Bottle take care of most of the bigger indie-type bands while AV-Aerie, Abbey Pub and Logan Square Auditorium take care of a lot of the smaller ones. 

I'm really looking forward to going to the gym, if only because apparently I'll be able to lift competitively with members of the football team.  It's all about the small joys in life.

A small question from me - do any of you guys have any TV show recommendations?  I get all OCD about making my way through entire series as a matter of habit (and because I'm bored a lot), but can't think of anything really good that I want to watch.  I was thinking about starting in on Lost, but I'm not sure if it's worth the time investment.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 24, 2008, 03:41:58 PM
What about free museums?

Of what quality is the Chicago gym? Anybody know if personal training is free there?


City museums have free days several times per year.  Special exhibits are extra, but it's a great way to kill an afternoon with hoards of people for free.  (I went to the Museum of Science and Industry on Thanksgiving; I've paid for all the other museums I've been to.  The art museum is worth the price of admission.)

Personal training is not free, but watching your profs lift weights in little gym shorts is.  (The gym is nice.  The ellipticals at peak time (evening) are usually full, but if you go off-peak or want to use weights or a machine without a TV, there's usually one available.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on June 24, 2008, 03:45:15 PM
ok, lets get some convo going on:

What types of music do you guys like? (Aside from the guy/gal who said that he/she couldn't listen to music any more. There is something wrong with you)

Anyone know the best places to see live music in Chicago?

What about free museums?

Of what quality is the Chicago gym? Anybody know if personal training is free there?

Music-wise, I have pretty broad tastes.  Currently I'm trying to get into jazz fusion (after I'm finished listening to what I've got, I'm going to start working my way back through various other types of jazz) and listening to a bunch of old late '70s - mid '80s electronica (from Suicide to New Order). 

There are a TON of great music venues in Chicago, but you're probably going to have to be specific about what type of shows you want to go to.  What type of music do YOU like?  Subterranean, Double Door, Metro, and the Empty Bottle take care of most of the bigger indie-type bands while AV-Aerie, Abbey Pub and Logan Square Auditorium take care of a lot of the smaller ones. 

I'm really looking forward to going to the gym, if only because apparently I'll be able to lift competitively with members of the football team.  It's all about the small joys in life.

A small question from me - do any of you guys have any TV show recommendations?  I get all OCD about making my way through entire series as a matter of habit (and because I'm bored a lot), but can't think of anything really good that I want to watch.  I was thinking about starting in on Lost, but I'm not sure if it's worth the time investment.

I like all genres as long as they're performed well. But at the moment I'm mostly listening to some of the new stoner rock/doom metal/pop fusion bands like Torche and Baroness. I'm also really into prog of any form, particularly 70's prog rock bands like Rush and Yes and contemporary prog metal bands like Tool, Meshuggah, Converge, Dillinger and Mastadon. Also The Mars Volta (if you don't own their first full length, Deloused in the Comatorium, then you're missing out on one of the best albums of the last 25 years).

In terms of TV, check out Spaced, its Simon Pegg's first show (from Shawn of the Dead and Hot Fuzz), or, if you've yet to see it, Arrested Development.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on June 24, 2008, 04:34:00 PM
Anyone know the best places to see live music in Chicago?

As the other respondent said, depends on what type of music you like.  I'm a huge jazz & blues fan, so my main stomps are (were?) Kingston Mines, Andy's Jazz Club, and the Green Mill.

What about free museums?

On most days the museums cost money, but they usually do at least one free day a month.  Just check the websites in advance, and you can usually find a time to go for free.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 24, 2008, 05:07:53 PM
I like all genres as long as they're performed well. But at the moment I'm mostly listening to some of the new stoner rock/doom metal/pop fusion bands like Torche and Baroness. I'm also really into prog of any form, particularly 70's prog rock bands like Rush and Yes and contemporary prog metal bands like Tool, Meshuggah, Converge, Dillinger and Mastadon. Also The Mars Volta (if you don't own their first full length, Deloused in the Comatorium, then you're missing out on one of the best albums of the last 25 years).

In terms of TV, check out Spaced, its Simon Pegg's first show (from Shawn of the Dead and Hot Fuzz), or, if you've yet to see it, Arrested Development.

Nice, I think I've seen pretty much all of those bands live outside of Meshuggah, Tool, Yes and Torche.  I'm glad somebody else can share the burden of being a Rush fan with me - it's such a heavy cross to bear  :(.  With regard to TMV, I don't know if I'd agree with the "one of the best of the last 25" comment, but it's pretty good.  I HATED Amputechture and Frances the Mute though.  I've got a pretty high tolerance for weird experimental stuff and solos, but it's at least got to go somewhere y'know?

I'll definitely check out Spaced, as I loved Shaun of the Dead (haven't seen Hot Fuzz, but I've heard good things.  Funny that you should mention Arrested Development, as familiarity with that show is one of my friend tests; i.e., if a person is into that show, then I tend to get along with him/her pretty well.

MTG, where's Andy's?  I've been to both Kingston Mines and the Green Mill, but I don't think I've ever even heard of Andy's.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on June 24, 2008, 06:22:06 PM
MTG, where's Andy's?  I've been to both Kingston Mines and the Green Mill, but I don't think I've ever even heard of Andy's.

Andy's is down on Hubbard:

http://www.andysjazzclub.com/
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on June 24, 2008, 06:23:20 PM
Oh!  And I totally forgot to mention:  if you like classical music, the CSO does tons of $10 student tickets (and $15 rush tickets).  The Lyric Opera also has a student mailing list that periodically offers $20 tickets, though you have to sign up for it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 24, 2008, 08:05:33 PM
Quote
(Aside from the guy/gal who said that he/she couldn't listen to music any more. There is something wrong with you)

Girl. I said I hardly listen to music anymore, not that I cannot. In the last week, I have listened to Erik Satie, some Norwegian pop, New Order, and Gabriel Teodros.

MTG, are there many student theater deals? I'm not so into improv/comedy, but anything else would be rad.

Quote
A small question from me - do any of you guys have any TV show recommendations?  I get all OCD about making my way through entire series as a matter of habit (and because I'm bored a lot), but can't think of anything really good that I want to watch.  I was thinking about starting in on Lost, but I'm not sure if it's worth the time investment.

The Wire.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 24, 2008, 09:17:50 PM
Can anyone explain this alumni matching program?   ???  I got an e-mail which makes a cursory mention of it.

Seconded.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on June 24, 2008, 09:20:19 PM
Quote
(Aside from the guy/gal who said that he/she couldn't listen to music any more. There is something wrong with you)

Girl. I said I hardly listen to music anymore, not that I cannot. In the last week, I have listened to Erik Satie, some Norwegian pop, New Order, and Gabriel Teodros.

My B. But I'm all about the Norwegian pop. Any recommendations?

Quote
Nice, I think I've seen pretty much all of those bands live outside of Meshuggah, Tool, Yes and Torche.  I'm glad somebody else can share the burden of being a Rush fan with me - it's such a heavy cross to bear  .  With regard to TMV, I don't know if I'd agree with the "one of the best of the last 25" comment, but it's pretty good.  I HATED Amputechture and Frances the Mute though.  I've got a pretty high tolerance for weird experimental stuff and solos, but it's at least got to go somewhere y'know?

I feel you on the disappointment with Frances the Mute and Amputechture, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say I hated them.  I really just feel that they need to go with a real producer instead of letting Omar produce the records.  Their new release is a lot better though, so there's hope yet.

Anybody a Melvins fan?


Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 24, 2008, 11:11:20 PM
Never heard of this alumni matching thing. Guess its something new.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on June 25, 2008, 01:57:07 AM
A small question from me - do any of you guys have any TV show recommendations?  I get all OCD about making my way through entire series as a matter of habit (and because I'm bored a lot), but can't think of anything really good that I want to watch.  I was thinking about starting in on Lost, but I'm not sure if it's worth the time investment.

I've got that same OCD -- I obsessively watch entire TV series straight through.  Sucks when they're still running.  I loved Lost's first season.  Now I'm hooked, and I don't feel like the other seasons have the same magic.  My recommendation: wait until it's all done, then burn through it.  Of course, by then, you'll be too busy to ever watch TV again.   :D

Running series: House, Scrubs, Monk, Office (I just noticed they're all comedies -- weird)

Dead series: Seinfeld, Deadwood, Rome, Sopranos, Buffy, Angel (if you like Buffy), maybe X-Files

I'm a TV-aholic.  I've seen dozens of complete series and I'm still looking for more -- I'm going to start digging deeper into Netflix's "watch instantly" archives soon...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Reaching on June 25, 2008, 07:46:00 AM
Can anyone explain this alumni matching program?   ???  I got an e-mail which makes a cursory mention of it.

Seconded.

I'm '09, and I think what happened with us was admissions/administration matched us to go to lunch or dinner with an alum in the city we're in for the summer before law school.  So you can ask questions about law school, their career, etc.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 25, 2008, 07:57:19 AM
Haha, god, I just realized how much time I've wasted watching tv in the last couple of months.  I've already watched the entirety of The Wire (best show ever if you ignore season 2 and pretend it never happened), House, Scrubs, the Office, 30 Rock, Seinfeld, Deadwood, Rome, Curb Your Enthusiasm, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia... christ, this is ridiculous.  Anyone have any thoughts on the John Adams mini-series?

I've liked what I've heard from Satie, seatochitown, do you have any recommendations on specific works to look into?

treefity - are you into the heavy, sludge Melvins, the fast, rocking Melvins, or the slow, drony Melvins?  I basically spent a year and a half in high school worshiping Stag and Houdini.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on June 25, 2008, 09:49:26 AM
Quote
are you into the heavy, sludge Melvins, the fast, rocking Melvins, or the slow, drony Melvins?  I basically spent a year and a half in high school worshiping Stag and Houdini.

i like the melvins in general, but the really drony stuff can get old, and I think they named the album Prick as they did because as soon as you take one listen you think "These guys are pricks for releasing this crap."

But Stag and Houdini are easily their best albums, along with their newest release, A Senile Animal (you should check this out, feature Jared and Cody from Big Business - TWO DRUMMERS!)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on June 25, 2008, 04:09:27 PM
Re: Odd

I have the same OCD tv habit, if you check out Hulu.com you can watch all three seasons of Arrested Development (or, re-watch them, ad infinitum), plus browse all the other random shows that are on. For non-free things, I've heard the new John Adams series on HBO is/was amazing, but I have yet to see it.  Also, I highly recommend "How I Met Your Mother," if you haven't seen it.  A groups of friends and I have a contest running for worst sitcom writing, and its been the consistent winner every episode since it started.  Think, Dharma and Greg, but less intelligent....


Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sortofnewls on June 25, 2008, 04:40:15 PM
Hi All - I am a just graduated JD from Chicago and am moving out of my rental in Hyde Park because hubbie and I bought a place.  I love my landlord and apartment so am trying to find someone for her.  The place is 3 beds, 2 bath, on Ingleside and 52nd, going for around 1600 per month, available September 1.  If you are interested and want pics let me know by PM and send your email addie.  I am going to post this on the other board too.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 26, 2008, 10:25:29 AM
Haha, god, I just realized how much time I've wasted watching tv in the last couple of months.  I've already watched the entirety of The Wire (best show ever if you ignore season 2 and pretend it never happened), House, Scrubs, the Office, 30 Rock, Seinfeld, Deadwood, Rome, Curb Your Enthusiasm, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia... christ, this is ridiculous.  Anyone have any thoughts on the John Adams mini-series?

I've liked what I've heard from Satie, seatochitown, do you have any recommendations on specific works to look into?

Are you guys too young to have seen My So-Called Life in reruns on MTV? There are only 19 episodes, so no big time-suck. And if you liked the Wire, you should also look at Homicide: Life on the Streets--basically just a less operatic version of the Wire. I feel like I read every review of the John Adams miniseries when it was on cable; seems worth watching.

W/r/t Satie & Norwegian pop: I really only know the stuff I have on my iTunes, but sure, I recommend it. The Satie I downloaded after visiting the museum in France (Honfleur?)--I chose it based on what was already stuck in my head: the Trois Gymnopedies. Playful, somewhat melancholy piano. And the Norwegian pop is that bubblegum record everybody was freaking out about prior to its Stateside release three or four years ago: Anniemal. It's cute.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on June 26, 2008, 11:56:09 AM
Too young to have seen My So-Called Life in reruns on MTV?  I watched them on ABC when they were original. Jordan Freaking Catalano.  How I loved him at 14. When he and Angela kissed in the boiler room...sigh.

That is a great show.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 26, 2008, 01:25:26 PM
Many great recommendations so far, but I can't believe no one has recommended '30 Rock' yet.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 26, 2008, 02:35:58 PM
Too young to have seen My So-Called Life in reruns on MTV?  I watched them on ABC when they were original. Jordan Freaking Catalano.  How I loved him at 14. When he and Angela kissed in the boiler room...sigh.

That is a great show.

We must be the same age. You're 2010, right? I have a hard time figuring out what the cultural references of the majority of my classmates are going to be. I haven't really hung out with 22-year-olds since I was 22; at work I've been the youngest or near that since I was hired. The notion that I'll be going to school with some kids who were in 8th grade when I was starting college kind of weirds me out.

Have you watched MSCL since it aired, sillyberry? I mostly remembered Jordan too, but, like, that scene where Angela is wishing some major event would happen to her generation comparable to the assassination of JFK for her parents seems creepily prescient now. It's funny to see the parents bickering about the Clintons. And dear god, the clothes!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on June 26, 2008, 03:21:24 PM
Too young to have seen My So-Called Life in reruns on MTV?  I watched them on ABC when they were original. Jordan Freaking Catalano.  How I loved him at 14. When he and Angela kissed in the boiler room...sigh.

That is a great show.

We must be the same age. You're 2010, right? I have a hard time figuring out what the cultural references of the majority of my classmates are going to be. I haven't really hung out with 22-year-olds since I was 22; at work I've been the youngest or near that since I was hired. The notion that I'll be going to school with some kids who were in 8th grade when I was starting college kind of weirds me out.

Have you watched MSCL since it aired, sillyberry? I mostly remembered Jordan too, but, like, that scene where Angela is wishing some major event would happen to her generation comparable to the assassination of JFK for her parents seems creepily prescient now. It's funny to see the parents bickering about the Clintons. And dear god, the clothes!

I'm embarassed to admit I watched the originals on ABC and the MTV re-runs.  My fondest MSCL memory has to be Rickie dancing at that high school dance.


Weren't you about 10 when that show came out? Where were mommy and daddy bosco when you should have been being supervised?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on June 26, 2008, 03:45:48 PM
I'm embarassed to admit I watched the originals on ABC and the MTV re-runs.  My fondest MSCL memory has to be Rickie dancing at that high school dance.

Yes! I wish they'd made more shows focusing on Rickie--he's the best.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on June 26, 2008, 03:55:00 PM
Too young to have seen My So-Called Life in reruns on MTV?  I watched them on ABC when they were original. Jordan Freaking Catalano.  How I loved him at 14. When he and Angela kissed in the boiler room...sigh.

That is a great show.

We must be the same age. You're 2010, right? I have a hard time figuring out what the cultural references of the majority of my classmates are going to be. I haven't really hung out with 22-year-olds since I was 22; at work I've been the youngest or near that since I was hired. The notion that I'll be going to school with some kids who were in 8th grade when I was starting college kind of weirds me out.

Haha, 5 years isn't really that much older, y'know.  My brother is 4 years older than me and we constantly joke about bizarre Saved by the Bell rip-offs like Parker Lewis Can't Lose.  However, if you really want to talk pop culture with us young'uns, just throw out a reference to pogs or Dawson's Creek.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 26, 2008, 04:27:36 PM
Pogs! I remember when I had the best slammer in town...those were the days, my friends, those were the days.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on June 26, 2008, 08:29:55 PM
That should be something we bring back this fall, Pog tournaments in the Greene Lounge anyone?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 26, 2008, 10:28:35 PM
Count me in on the people who do go to the Pub and like it. As someone else said, its a nice low-key place to grab a drink (and the beer selection is pretty impressive). Unlike many bars nowadays, you can actually have a conversation in there.

I don't really go to any other bars in Hyde Park.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 26, 2008, 10:50:07 PM
No smoking in there, right?  If that's the case, I'm already a fan.

No smoking in any bars in Chicago.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 26, 2008, 11:33:10 PM
The Pub sounds great. I'll have to check it out when I come to Chicago.

My problem with most bars is that they're either extremely noisy or they're filled with smoke or their beer selection forces me to conclude that they're less a bar than they are a corner store with beer coolers.

I went to Bar Louie in May. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 26, 2008, 11:38:23 PM
Which brings me to bar red flag #1: When a bar's "premium" beer is Heineken...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on June 27, 2008, 06:23:42 AM
That should be something we bring back this fall, Pog tournaments in the Greene Lounge anyone?

Are we allowed to use Elephant slammers? We better be playing for keeps.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tea and Cake on June 27, 2008, 01:05:45 PM

I tend to be skeptical of stereotypes like that, but when it comes to the UG kids here, it seems pretty warranted.  I don't "dislike" the UGs, but the whole "nerdy" "fun goes to die" stereotype definitely seems true.  To be fair, I haven't interacted with them much though - just a general impression I get when I walk near the UG campus.

They're more self-selected than you'd find at a large state university which draws all types, but the stereotype is pretty overblown.  I know several undergrads and they're all varying types of normal, but they're also all 19 or 20 years old.  Chicago perhaps has more of a general sense of self-importance, but it's not like you don't get that at every selective university.  It may just be percieved as more weird because (I think) it has a higher hard science-to-liberal arts ratio.  Science/math/engineering (and to some degree econ/poli-sci) kids are weird everywhere.

I also don't know any grad/professional students who are wild about the undergrads at their institution, so age/maturity probably has a lot to do with it, too.


(And surely I'm not the only one who identified much more with Freaks & Geeks than MSCL?)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on June 27, 2008, 02:27:04 PM
Yeah, I agree the stereotype is overblown.  Of the three or four people I actually know who graduated from UC UG, they're all cool - and I'm living with one next year.

Are you guys really?  That's awesome.  Staying in Regents?

So let's talk about how it's 5:21 AM and I'm still not asleep.....
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on June 27, 2008, 03:26:21 PM
Yeah, I agree the stereotype is overblown.  Of the three or four people I actually know who graduated from UC UG, they're all cool - and I'm living with one next year.

Are you guys really?  That's awesome.  Staying in Regents?

So let's talk about how it's 5:21 AM and I'm still not asleep.....

Yeah staying in Regents.  Are you staying too?  I remember you were planning to head up north.

And I was definitely still up at 521 this morning Chicago time.  Without classes or a 9-5 job, my sleeping schedule gets all messed up.

Yeah Regents :( Not entirely by choice but I just didn't have time to find a place and move before heading to Tokyo (and didn't want to pay for a car).  Oh well.  But seriously I should go to bed.  Ugh
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on June 27, 2008, 03:38:35 PM
I totally <3 The Pub.  Tuesday night trivia there is fantastic - I once met a totally amazing guy there.  That's I also where I met my boyfriend.

(ba-dum-dum)

I'm here all night, try the steak, tip your server.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: aporia on June 27, 2008, 03:56:44 PM
I totally <3 The Pub.

The Pub is amazing!  Big ups to Victor, the white-haired man working the bar.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 27, 2008, 09:51:31 PM
(And surely I'm not the only one who identified much more with Freaks & Geeks than MSCL?)

Me too.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on June 27, 2008, 10:21:39 PM
I didn't even know Woodchuck could come in pitchers. This may be the best news I have heard all summer.  (Is it just the Amber, or do they have Ganny Smith or Pear?)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on June 27, 2008, 10:36:00 PM
I didn't even know Woodchuck could come in pitchers. This may be the best news I have heard all summer.  (Is it just the Amber, or do they have Ganny Smith or Pear?)

What are you talking about?   ???

Woodchuck is a brand of cider.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 29, 2008, 03:37:43 PM
Don't get me started on Michigan's weather lately...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on June 29, 2008, 05:40:56 PM
Yeah, MI has been ridiculous, I've been waiting for one day thats consistently sunny and dry.  What part of the state are you from/in JusAbstinendi?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on June 29, 2008, 07:04:42 PM
Yeah, MI has been ridiculous, I've been waiting for one day thats consistently sunny and dry.  What part of the state are you from/in JusAbstinendi?

Today was actually nice! 70 degrees, 60% humidity, and no rain? Sold!

I'm 30 minutes southwest of Detroit, right outside of Detroit Metro Airport.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on July 02, 2008, 03:47:09 PM
Bump for researching new lenders because UChicago all-of-the-sudden can't issue Stafford Loans anymore.

Fun!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 02, 2008, 04:36:08 PM
Tell me about it.

Chicago's funding is backed by IDAPP, and IDAPP's funding is in turn backed by a private institution. Private institution pulls its funds from IDAPP and, presto, no more loans from Chicago.

I can understand vagaries in the market and the consequences thereof. What irks me is that it took this long for the financial aid office to realize what was going on with IDAPP.

Now it falls on the students to scramble for loans.

RIP UC/IDAPP Partnership (1996-2008).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 02, 2008, 05:19:28 PM
I haven't read the ATL posts. But I am seriously considering pursuing a private loan through CitiBank instead of paying the ridiculous 3% origination fee and fixed 8.5% interest rate of the GradPlus.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on July 03, 2008, 09:32:26 AM
I haven't read the ATL posts. But I am seriously considering pursuing a private loan through CitiBank instead of paying the ridiculous 3% origination fee and fixed 8.5% interest rate of the GradPlus.

Yeah, the origination fee is pretty bad but, depending on where you want to work, it may not be that big of a deal.  If you plan to go into public service and take advantage of the Income Based Repayment and Public Service Loan Forgiveness Programs, those GradPLUS loans can be discharged after 10 years.  Not so for the private loans, I believe.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 03, 2008, 11:17:23 AM
I haven't read the ATL posts. But I am seriously considering pursuing a private loan through CitiBank instead of paying the ridiculous 3% origination fee and fixed 8.5% interest rate of the GradPlus.

Yeah, the origination fee is pretty bad but, depending on where you want to work, it may not be that big of a deal.  If you plan to go into public service and take advantage of the Income Based Repayment and Public Service Loan Forgiveness Programs, those GradPLUS loans can be discharged after 10 years.  Not so for the private loans, I believe.

Good point. People need to consider that. It doesn't apply to me, but that could really hurt some people.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on July 03, 2008, 05:27:02 PM
Today's been a blast from the past.  Applying for loans again.  People announcing their June LSAT scores.  I feel like I shouldn't be on here anymore.

Random anecdote: today I told an attorney friend of mine I was going to Chicago, to which he replied "That's like the Harvard of the midwest!"  He meant well, but for some reason it seemed like an odd sort of compliment.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 05, 2008, 08:51:00 AM
Speaking of financial matters...

I am likely ending business with my current bank. What are some good banking options in Hyde Park?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on July 05, 2008, 09:27:31 AM
Speaking of financial matters...

I am likely ending business with my current bank. What are some good banking options in Hyde Park?

Citibank definitely. 

There's a branch right next to the bookstore, and if you sign up there, they have a special deal for UChicago students you can't find online or at the other regular branches. Plus, Citibank is everywhere in the city

(I switched from US Bank to Citi when I got to Chicago)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 05, 2008, 09:46:10 AM
Excellent.

Thanks.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 05, 2008, 10:31:43 AM
Speaking of financial matters...

I am likely ending business with my current bank. What are some good banking options in Hyde Park?

I'm going to open a student checking account at citibank.  They offer unlimited ATM and decent perks, so that should keep me happy.

Must you open an account on campus to have those perks?

I tried opening an account online just now, but they didn't offer anything. Then I called, and I was told that local branches offer local deals. He transferred me to the campus bank, but no one picked up the phone...he never gave me the number, either. Grr.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on July 05, 2008, 10:37:54 AM
There's also a Citibank ATM in the Reynolds Club and, as far as I've heard, in the law school as well.

Wes, there is a Citi ATM in the law school. Citi is definitely the handiest bank on campus.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on July 05, 2008, 10:38:33 AM
Speaking of financial matters...

I am likely ending business with my current bank. What are some good banking options in Hyde Park?

I'm going to open a student checking account at citibank.  They offer unlimited ATM and decent perks, so that should keep me happy.

Must you open an account on campus to have those perks?

I tried opening an account online just now, but they didn't offer anything. Then I called, and I was told that local branches offer local deals. He transferred me to the campus bank, but no one picked up the phone...he never gave me the number, either. Grr.

As far as I know, you have to go to the campus branch next to the bookstore (58th and Ellis) to get the student checking perks.  I actually did open an account online and had a lot of trouble closing it and getting a new student one
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 05, 2008, 10:53:20 AM
Doh...I forgot Saturday has short banking hours. I'll call the campus branch Monday.

As far as I know, you have to go to the campus branch next to the bookstore (58th and Ellis) to get the student checking perks.  I actually did open an account online and had a lot of trouble closing it and getting a new student one

If you can wait until orientation, Citibank has a table set up around that time where you can apply easily for these accounts.

I could wait, but I'd rather not; I want to close my MI bank account and transfer my funds to Citibank before moving to Chicago.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on July 05, 2008, 12:51:50 PM
You guys will feel much better when you start school, and people ask (sometimes randomly on the bus, lol) and you get the "wow, that is such a great school" response, or in interviews for 1L or 2L, you get the "well, uchicago's name speaks for itself- I guess we really don't need to talk about academic success" response :) (and i've gotten both before)

of course, then you go back home and STILL get the "is that a state school?" or "are you conservative?" reactions :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on July 05, 2008, 01:07:06 PM
I like to say that its a city school (like the CUNYs) and that I'm left of the political views of my professors and classmates.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on July 10, 2008, 11:56:35 AM
*Bump*

Also, from my limited experiences with my U of Chicago sweatshirt thus far, I get "congratulations" from professors or any of my other friends applying to grad schools, and "So that means you didn't get into Michigan or Wayne State?" from everyone else at home.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 11, 2008, 07:54:55 AM
*Bump*

Also, from my limited experiences with my U of Chicago sweatshirt thus far, I get "congratulations" from professors or any of my other friends applying to grad schools, and "So that means you didn't get into Michigan or Wayne State?" from everyone else at home.

Hahaha, so true...and, you know, I don't even try to explain it to them.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on July 13, 2008, 10:35:51 AM
*Bump*

Also, from my limited experiences with my U of Chicago sweatshirt thus far, I get "congratulations" from professors or any of my other friends applying to grad schools, and "So that means you didn't get into Michigan or Wayne State?" from everyone else at home.

Hahaha, so true...and, you know, I don't even try to explain it to them.

To be fair, there are a TON of people in Chicago who don't know the difference between University of Chicago and University of Illinois-Chicago.  No disrespect to UIC, but there's quite a difference there...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on July 14, 2008, 09:00:15 AM
this thread has exploded since i've been away
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 17, 2008, 10:19:50 PM
The eagle has landed: Operation Chicago Move-In complete.

Plus bump.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on July 17, 2008, 11:57:47 PM
Is anyone else mildly disturbed that a lot of the profs we've heard last years 1L's rave about are going to be elsewhere next year?  I wonder if its going to be for full years or just semesters...

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2008/07/visiting-profes.html


Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on July 18, 2008, 12:42:14 AM
Is anyone else mildly disturbed that a lot of the profs we've heard last years 1L's rave about are going to be elsewhere next year?  I wonder if its going to be for full years or just semesters...

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2008/07/visiting-profes.html

I know Samaha and Gersen were listed as visiting for the full year on one of the other blogs.  The one I'm really interested to know about is Lior.

In any case, the 1L prof layout is going to look quite a bit different next year.  Potentially no Gersen, Sunstein, Samaha, E. Pos, Lior, or Cox?  Wow.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on July 18, 2008, 05:48:41 AM
Is anyone else mildly disturbed that a lot of the profs we've heard last years 1L's rave about are going to be elsewhere next year?  I wonder if its going to be for full years or just semesters...

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2008/07/visiting-profes.html

I know Samaha and Gersen were listed as visiting for the full year on one of the other blogs.  The one I'm really interested to know about is Lior.

In any case, the 1L prof layout is going to look quite a bit different next year.  Potentially no Gersen, Sunstein, Samaha, E. Pos, Lior, or Cox?  Wow.

Well, apparently they've decided on an Elements replacement (someone mentioned it was one of the new hires, Rosalind Dixon), but I wonder who they're going to use for the other courses.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 18, 2008, 06:02:35 AM
This is depressing.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: deathandtaxes on July 18, 2008, 08:20:49 AM
As far as I know, Gersen will be gone only in the Spring; stands to reason that the others might be in Chicago for certain quarters.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 18, 2008, 09:06:22 AM
As far as I know, Gersen will be gone only in the Spring; stands to reason that the others might be in Chicago for certain quarters.

Any idea how we might confirm which semesters each professor will be visiting elsewhere? I thought about calling the law school, but I don't know whether that's frowned upon for this particular issue..
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: deathandtaxes on July 18, 2008, 09:22:38 AM
Any idea how we might confirm which semesters each professor will be visiting elsewhere? I thought about calling the law school, but I don't know whether that's frowned upon for this particular issue..

I don't see why they would really mind; you could email Richardson.  Leiter also modified his post:

Quote
UPDATE (5:30 pm July 16):  Just to be clear--since several folks have e-mailed about this--not every visit, below, is for the entire academic year; indeed, my guess is at least half are not, meaning students can expect many of these faculty to *also* be teaching at their home institution.  In the case of HLS, many of the visitors come in the Winter Term, i.e., just the month of January.

Or you could look at the schools' visiting appointments, although they are not completely clear:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/visiting (Gersen - Spring)
http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/faculty.htm (Strahilevitz - Fall)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on July 18, 2008, 12:21:39 PM
Here's the original blog post that had the stuff with Gersen and Samaha being gone for a full year.  Guess some of this guy's info wasn't correct:

http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2008/04/law-school-vi-1.html
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on July 18, 2008, 01:14:13 PM
If Strahi is only at Yale for the fall, he could still be teaching 1L Property next year (if they move it to Winter/Spring). Thats good. And Gersen could still teach his half of 1L torts if they move that to Fall/Winter to replace Property.

Hooray optimism!

And yes, I'm sure you incoming students can email Dean Richardson to ask. We current students may be a little tentative on doing that, for fear that she'll LawAnnounce our email, but the incoming 1Ls don't really have to worry about that.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on July 18, 2008, 01:30:52 PM
My 1L year, Fall/Winter was Torts & Contracts and Winter/Spring was Property & Crim.  So that would work fine.

I guess Harcourt will be coming back, so the 1Ls might be treated to him.  Could be an improvement over Etienne though.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 18, 2008, 02:38:06 PM
Quote
We current students may be a little tentative on doing that, for fear that she'll LawAnnounce our email.

Oh, you're funny.

I think I will e-mail Richardson, though, just to hear from an official--and I hope more specific--source.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on July 18, 2008, 03:50:26 PM
My 1L year, Fall/Winter was Torts & Contracts and Winter/Spring was Property & Crim.  So that would work fine.

I guess Harcourt will be coming back, so the 1Ls might be treated to him.  Could be an improvement over Etienne though.



There's no "could" about it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 18, 2008, 04:14:28 PM
What does Etienne teach during 1L?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on July 18, 2008, 04:42:22 PM
What does Etienne teach during 1L?


You'll have to ask students who attend some TTT, not us?

Just kidding - she was a visiting prof here who taught Crim last year and she was TERRIBLE. Thankfully she did not receive a permanent offer and we'll hopefully never see her again.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 18, 2008, 04:58:34 PM
Ahhh, not permanent faculty. I hope none of these incoming professors will repeat her dubious performance.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: randomman on July 21, 2008, 06:34:23 PM
Any advice on what hornbooks to purchase?  Besides Prosser's Torts, I've heard varying recommendations.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on July 21, 2008, 06:46:18 PM
Any advice on what hornbooks to purchase?  Besides Prosser's Torts, I've heard varying recommendations.

I probably wouldn't purchase any right now - maybe go to a library, thumb through them, see what looks like it makes sense to you.  Not everyone likes the same books.  Not every book works as well for every professor.

hornbooks I used to varying degrees:

E&E for CivPro (typically assigned and fairly necessary)
Understanding Property (assigned by Strahilevitz)
Chirelstein for Contracts (Baird said this is the only hornbook he thinks is any good for contracts)
Blond's on Criminal Law (read in desperation the night before the exam, still got craptastic grade)
E&E for Torts (fairly useful, ran out of time)


I'm editing this - I agree with annonymous - don't listen to me and don't buy anything.

MOST IMPORTANTLY:  do not spend your summer reading hornbooks.  Honestly, I don't think it will help.  Read for fun, watch movies, sit and ponder the gloriousness of doing nothing.  If you want to read something law related, I've heard really good things about The Legal Analyst by Ward Farnsworth (haven't read it, sitting next to me on my desk).  It's much more a generalist book about The Law.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on July 21, 2008, 06:54:53 PM
Any advice on what hornbooks to purchase?  Besides Prosser's Torts, I've heard varying recommendations.

Its probably too early for that kind of stuff. You don't even know yet if you're a student who'll benefit from hornbooks, commercial outlines, E&E, etc. or if they'll just be a waste of time/money. Plus, you don't even know which professors you'll have (for example, for Epstein's Torts class he just had us buy his own hornbook). Ask again closer to the school year, or at least after you find out which professors are teaching which courses. Don't worry about this stuff right now.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on July 21, 2008, 07:04:14 PM
Any advice on what hornbooks to purchase?  Besides Prosser's Torts, I've heard varying recommendations.

I probably wouldn't purchase any right now - maybe go to a library, thumb through them, see what looks like it makes sense to you.  Not everyone likes the same books.  Not every book works as well for every professor.

hornbooks I used to varying degrees:

E&E for CivPro (typically assigned and fairly necessary)
Understanding Property (assigned by Strahilevitz)
Chirelstein for Contracts (Baird said this is the only hornbook he thinks is any good for contracts)
Blond's on Criminal Law (read in desperation the night before the exam, still got craptastic grade)
E&E for Torts (fairly useful, ran out of time)

Just as an example of how different people have different reactions to supplemental materials: I found E&E to be pretty much useless. Both for CivPro and Torts (after finding the CivPro one to be a waste, I didn't even buy the Torts one, but a 3L gave me his copy anyway).

On the flip side, given my general approach in class (i.e., not taking notes), I found Emanuel's Law Outlines to be incredibly useful come exam time- just as a way for me to organize thoughts (I used it for CivPro and Property). But I doubt others would find Emanuel's to be as useful.

'Understanding Property' and Epstein's Torts hornbook were assigned books... but I didn't really use either of them.

Chirelstein's Contracts is the only supplemental resource I'll recommend to anyone taking Baird. Its so small it can't hurt to glance at it. Sometimes it feels like Baird is teaching out of that book.

For Crim, I don't even remember what I used, if I used anything. But the Crim class me and sillyberry had was... different... than what I expect you guys to have. At least, I hope so.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 21, 2008, 08:06:05 PM
Are we allowed access to the university's libraries before we pay tuition, e.g., over the 0L summer?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on July 21, 2008, 09:12:26 PM
I'm going to add my two cents in here regarding hornbooks. I want to echo everyone else's sentiments that you really don't need to do anything prior to 1L to do fantastic. In addition, you really want to wait until you have your professor list for hornbooks and study aids. For example, nothing that Prosser has to say would ever be useful in Levmore's torts class and it would actually BE MORE CONFUSING!


AGAIN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ ANYTHING!!!!!


I glanced at some of the pre-law books and read about 1/2 of Getting to Maybe and found them all to be crap. But, no matter what people tell you I know some of you will go off and find things to read. So with all of that said, if you're dead set on reading something I will recommend something that I think would have been a little useful before 1L year specifically at Chicago.

I found certain chapters of Posner's book "Economic Analysis of Law" to be useful in understanding some of the concepts that are repeated throughout the year. We were assigned the book for the elective of the same name in the spring and I sort of wish I had read them earlier because it would have provided a nice foundation for the law and econ things that Chicago is so famous for. If you do decide to get this book, get an old edition because it really hasn't changed much since about 1970 or so. I would read at most three chapters (in order of decreasing importance) - Property, Torts and Contracts (the first two are much better than the last one). To provide one example, we talked about property and liability rules on the first day of Property class but no one really explained what they were in depth until much later in the course and Posner's discussion of them is really good.

Again, don't feel like you have to, but if you're going to read something at least make it worthwhile. Current Chicago students feel free to beat me up now.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: fredsslacks on July 22, 2008, 10:17:59 AM
Examples and explanations is the best. You should read them all before you even think of coming to law school or you will have horrible grades. NOT. Don't read anything before law school. Enjoy the last summer of freedom of your life. Actually read Harry Potter. That's good pre-law reading.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on July 22, 2008, 01:25:31 PM
Are we allowed access to the university's libraries before we pay tuition, e.g., over the 0L summer?

The law library is open to non-law students on hours around 9-5 Mon-Fri. Unsure if non U.Chi students are allowed using it, but nobody checks for ID anyhow, so it's a moot point. I think you need a student ID card to use the Regenstein library. I don't know about the others.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 22, 2008, 02:08:48 PM
Thanks, nerfco.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on July 22, 2008, 02:09:31 PM
Are we allowed access to the university's libraries before we pay tuition, e.g., over the 0L summer?

The law library is open to non-law students on hours around 9-5 Mon-Fri. Unsure if non U.Chi students are allowed using it, but nobody checks for ID anyhow, so it's a moot point. I think you need a student ID card to use the Regenstein library. I don't know about the others.

you can enter the main law school doors 9-5 and access the law library on the 2nd floor. regenstein and crerar require you to swipe your student ID to get in and you need a student ID to check out books (there's a number above the bar code you can use). i don't think you can apply for the ID card until you pay fall tuition; i don't think you even get instructions to apply for it until orientation.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on July 22, 2008, 06:33:03 PM
I think I got my UChicago ID before paying tuition, but maybe not. I definitely got it before orientation started, since I wanted it so I can use the bus lines for free.

Examples and explanations is the best. You should read them all before you even think of coming to law school or you will have horrible grades. NOT. Don't read anything before law school. Enjoy the last summer of freedom of your life. Actually read Harry Potter. That's good pre-law reading.

After the fervent defense of E&E, and the Gersen post, I know who you are now. Hooray.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: fredsslacks on July 24, 2008, 01:20:20 PM
Damn. I don't know who you are! Hints?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 26, 2008, 04:17:03 PM
I think you have to do it during the week in certain offices, such as the one in Gaylord. Where do you live? I have 32 bucks on my card and can help ya out. PM if you want.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 26, 2008, 04:26:23 PM
Oh, and there's a laundromat on 53rd at Kimbark Plaza (in between Kimbark and Woodlawn). Not sure whether it's 24/7, but I figure it's gotta be open late on Saturday.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Reaching on July 26, 2008, 05:22:43 PM
any chicago students live in grad student housing and know where i can add money to my laundry card? The office is closed and my wife put two loads of laundry in without realizing that we were out of money, so now I've got two wet loads i can't dry. I know there is a 24 hr. machine somewhere-I think somewhere on Dorchester? Please help.

I think the card reloading machine is in Reynolds Club (57th and University)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 26, 2008, 05:36:25 PM
Really? Sweet.

Is Reynolds always open?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on July 27, 2008, 06:16:16 AM
I don't think it's 24/7. Did you ever find a place, I'd love to know where it is as well because I'm always running out of cash on my card.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on July 27, 2008, 04:41:12 PM
i ended up borrowing a neighbors card-I've got to go to the office to pay rent on Monday anyways.

But I do know for sure that there is one place that is 24/7 in the neighborhood.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on July 28, 2008, 03:09:42 PM
It may have already been asked, but when do we find out what our schedules look like?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on July 28, 2008, 03:16:17 PM
I was told students would be receiving their schedules a week before orientation.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on July 28, 2008, 06:37:18 PM
If its the same as it was last year, you'll see all your possible schedules much earlier (i.e., which sections have which professors, and what times those classes are), but your actual section assignments won't come till the week before orientation (technically you're told this at orientation, but I remember last year someone saw that our cmore page had been update with our class schedules, and then passed along that info).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on July 28, 2008, 06:51:09 PM
If its the same as it was last year, you'll see all your possible schedules much earlier (i.e., which sections have which professors, and what times those classes are), but your actual section assignments won't come till the week before orientation (technically you're told this at orientation, but I remember last year someone saw that our cmore page had been update with our class schedules, and then passed along that info).


If memory serves, it was the night before orientation, not any earlier.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on July 29, 2008, 10:56:23 AM
Are the schedules all pretty reasonable?  I'm more of a morning guy and I hate night/late-afternoon classes with the fire of one-thousand burning suns.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on July 29, 2008, 03:08:02 PM
Are the schedules all pretty reasonable?  I'm more of a morning guy and I hate night/late-afternoon classes with the fire of one-thousand burning suns.

As a 1L, you will be done with classes no later than 3:50.  As a 2L and 3L, you'll probably want to take some workshops and seminars that are held later, but that's obviously up to you.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on August 01, 2008, 11:16:48 AM
If we are, say, the polar opposite of bathing jesus, what is the earliest we can expect for our schedules?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 01, 2008, 11:36:58 AM
If we are, say, the polar opposite of bathing jesus, what is the earliest we can expect for our schedules?

The earliest classes are at 8:30.  My section never had any 8:30 classes, but did have a 9:45 class each quarter.

Same caveat as before about classes after 1L year - you never have to take any class, but there will probably be an 8:30 class you suck it up to take.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 01, 2008, 12:35:51 PM
I just know I'm going to be of the people placed in the 8:30 AM section.  :'(

Bathing Jesus: Let's make a Section Switch Pact.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 01, 2008, 12:51:18 PM
If we are, say, the polar opposite of bathing jesus, what is the earliest we can expect for our schedules?

The earliest classes are at 8:30.  My section never had any 8:30 classes, but did have a 9:45 class each quarter.

Same caveat as before about classes after 1L year - you never have to take any class, but there will probably be an 8:30 class you suck it up to take.

Especially if you want to take Professor "I don't ask for 8:30s but I don't object to them so they always assign them to me" Baird.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on August 06, 2008, 11:41:15 AM
I just know I'm going to be of the people placed in the 8:30 AM section.  :'(

Bathing Jesus: Let's make a Section Switch Pact.

Done.  I can't stand those late classes because it seems like my day is pretty much done by the time I get out of class, as opposed to having a bunch of time at the end of the day to hang out and play videogames or whatever.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on August 15, 2008, 07:32:32 PM
Almost a month until orientation....

*Bump*
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on August 16, 2008, 09:54:40 AM
Almost a month until orientation....

*Bump*

I know.

Is it normal for me to be so excited? My wife keeps telling me that as soon as school starts I'll be wishing it was summer again, but I can't wait. Its like the fist day of 5th grade all over again.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 16, 2008, 10:51:23 AM
I want my schedule!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: randomman on August 17, 2008, 12:39:02 AM
I'm looking forward to it, but also not.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: randomman on August 17, 2008, 12:39:50 AM
I want my schedule!

Do we know for sure what classes we'll have first quarter other than Writing, Elements, and CivPro?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 17, 2008, 09:46:52 AM
I want my schedule!

Do we know for sure what classes we'll have first quarter other than Writing, Elements, and CivPro?

I don't know myself, but one of us could probably call and find out.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 17, 2008, 11:38:47 AM
None of you asked for this advice, but I'm full of self-importance so I'm giving it anyway:  calm thyselves.

Do not call the admissions or registrars office asking question.  Don't be that guy.  They will tell you everything you need to know when you need to know it.  Class is still a month away.  While I understand the desire to know (I'm awaiting getting a course schedule, too), knowing really won't change anything for you.

Which comes to:  don't spend your time reading anything about law school.  Taking torts or property in the fall quarter?  Doesn't matter.  Shouldn't make you do anything differently.  The only reading you need to have done on the first day is whatever your professor assigns (and they'll tell you that eventually).

Spend your days being as happy as possible.  Read books you always want to read but never find time for.  See movies.  Take a mini-break somewhere.  Spend time with your SO and friends and family.

Law school can be a great time, but it is still law school.  It is hard.  It is draining and tiring and sometimes you will want to tear your hair out.  Take advantage of every moment you can to do the things that you love doing.

If you get to Chicago early, explore.  Visit some neighborhoods (http://omsa.uchicago.edu/resources/altguide/) to see the variety the city has to offer.  Visit the Field Museum or the Art Institute or whatever types of places tickle your fancy.  Go to Millennium Park while the weather is good.

Walk around Hyde Park.  See main campus.  Visit the shops on 57th Street, including the Seminary Co-Op Bookstore on 57th and University.  Wander around 53rd and Harper.  Start on the path to figuring out which of the three Thai places on 55th you prefer.  Find a dry cleaner and a tailor.  Stock up on groceries.

Most of all, relax.  I know, it is impossible.  A year ago I wasn't that relaxed.  But do everything you can to make it so.  You'll be grateful you did.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 17, 2008, 01:10:44 PM
I prefer neurotic sillyberry to self-confident sillyberry. More entertaining.

But she's right. Well, except for the Thai restaurants thing: is there anyone who actually likes Thai 55 the most? All you really have to do is determine whether you like Siam or Snail the most.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 17, 2008, 03:00:02 PM
I can understand the need for a dry cleaner, but I don't see why I would use a tailor.  Is this for lapel emergencies before an interview?  Ripped hem that needs to be folded and sewn?  Customization of a vintage sweatshirt?

I should learn more about tailors.

Ha.  Not urgent, but I'm short and perpetually need pants altered.  I also can't sew a button.  Another point is that a good tailor can take a nice article of clothing and turn it into a better fitting article of clothing.  This is particularly important for women, since women's clothing can be so much less precise in size.

Also, one other bit of advice:  take care of as many "life" things as possible before school starts.  Go to the doctor or dentist if you need to, get prescriptions renewed, order new contacts if you need them, whatever.  Not worrying about these things can be a relief (I know, as a prescription of mine ran out and getting a non-urgent appointment took longer than I would have liked).

I would also stock up on things like toilet paper, cleaning supplies, office supplies, etc before school starts.  I am super proud of the fact that I never bought a single roll of Charmin during the school year because I had a huge stockpile. 

This is war, people - prepare for it!  :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 17, 2008, 03:12:12 PM
This is true.  People who understand alterations are often the best dressers.  They're also the types who buy cashmere and discuss its greatness.

To be honest, I don't know much about women's clothing.  Surprising.  So the waist * length sizes don't apply as well?  Or they're more opaque?  I guess it makes sense that, say, a sundress wouldn't be a precise fit.  Or perhaps it's a neckline adjustment, or turning a cowl collar into something more casual.  Anywoo, interesting.

Women's clothing tends to be strictly number sizes - generally even numbers from 0 on up (although vanity sizing has made it such that there are now 00s, which makes me want to killself).  So if you're between sizes, something like a button-down shirt might fit well in the bust but not the waist.  Getting the waist taken in a bit gives the whole thing a better look.  Same thing if something fitting in the hips gapes at the waist.  Curves are difficult.  It doesn't generally matter much for t-shirts and casual wear, but if you're spending cash on nice work clothes, it helps if you can make them fit as precisely as possible.

At the same time, I think most men find off-the-rack suits in need of a bit of tailoring, but I could be wrong about that.

Quote
Are you serious with that last comment?  That sounds a little drastic, no?

Smiley faces always denote total seriousness.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 17, 2008, 03:23:06 PM
i have the same problem as sillyberry....i am relatively tall (unlike sillyberry...HA, SEMI-KIDDING), but have a long torso and short legs, so i always have to get my pants hemmed. i can hem then (badly) myself, or have my mom do then if i suck up enough, or have them done. it may be hard to find short pants as a man, but womens' sizes pretty much only run in whole sizes not in inches.

for the records, michael phelps is 6'4" and has the legs of a 6'0" man but the torso of a 6'8" man. i prefer to think i am like michael phelps.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 17, 2008, 03:43:58 PM
That video gave me hives.

If I can spend lots of money on a pair of pants, I can spend $12 more to make them fit properly.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 17, 2008, 04:32:51 PM
Quote
At the same time, I think most men find off-the-rack suits in need of a bit of tailoring, but I could be wrong about that.

Most fashionable men, to be sure. ;p

I actually had the good luck of finding perhaps Chicago's best tailor (for men). He's downtown, but well worth the trip.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on August 17, 2008, 05:09:20 PM
I actually had the good luck of finding perhaps Chicago's best tailor (for men). He's downtown, but well worth the trip.

Who is it, if you don't mind me asking?  Have you gotten anything altered or made by him yet? 

I'm not in the city yet, but my current tailor recommended Chris Despos (if I can twist his arm enough to do alterations) or Paul Chang.  Anyone have experience with them?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 17, 2008, 07:00:51 PM
It's Chris Despos. No, he hasn't altered anything yet for me, but I plan on bringing a suit to him in the next few weeks. I'm usually hesitant to trust hearsay, but I don't think I've ever heard such unanimous support for a single craftsman. It's especially unusual considering the size of Chicago.

As for the full Windsor knot: practice makes perfect.

(http://www.execstyle.com/images/clip_image001_0000.gif)

The real mastery comes with the perfect dimple...oh yes, it has taken me years to form even a respectable dimple. Every time I see someone whose tie has no dimple, a little part of me dies.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 17, 2008, 07:34:09 PM
It's Chris Despos. No, he hasn't altered anything yet for me, but I plan on bringing a suit to him in the next few weeks. I'm usually hesitant to trust hearsay, but I don't think I've ever heard such unanimous support for a single craftsman. It's especially unusual considering the size of Chicago.

As for the full Windsor knot: practice makes perfect.

(http://www.execstyle.com/images/clip_image001_0000.gif)

The real mastery comes with the perfect dimple...oh yes, it has taken me years to form even a respectable dimple. Every time I see someone whose tie has no dimple, a little part of me dies.


I must learn this in the next week or so. My "schoolboy knot" is not going to cut it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 17, 2008, 08:35:18 PM
Interesting...the Full Windsor is probably the most conservative and most traditional knot for ties.

I am positive that Clinton was able to power through that pitiful crooked dimple only by sheer force of character. Best not to leave our fates in such unsteady hands.

And Stotan brings up a good point: make sure that you test a tie before buying it. This means tying it and finding out how well the fabric and cut hold a dimple. Many cheaper ties, even if 100% silk, have a hard time keeping a dimple.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 17, 2008, 09:03:28 PM
Haha, oh boy. I had never seen an Irving-version Windsor before this thread. Thank you.

That version of the Windsor is ridiculous. I can only guess Irving went with extra fabric in order to fill out the spread collar completely. My Windsor is larger than the Half-Windsor, of course, but it isn't audaciously large.

I agree that the Half-Windsor is perfectly fine. I prefer the Windsor because it's more symmetrical and is easier to dimple. Also, I feel it's more intuitive to tie than the HW. Then again, maybe that's because I started off tying fulls.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on August 17, 2008, 09:07:48 PM
Half-windsor gets my vote too.  The FIH looks so scrawny (with most ties) and the windsor needs the right face-shape and a major spread collar to pull off.  I've never been able to make one without looking like I'm trying too hard.  Maybe that's just me.  I'd be happy to help people learn how to tie the more exotic knots, if it ever comes up during the year.

By the way, what's with all the clothing geeks?  A law student thing, or something peculiar to Chicago
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: odd on August 17, 2008, 09:26:16 PM
It might be an oddity of Chicago.  A year or two ago, there was a Chicago student who collected suits and blogged about them.  I don't remember his name, but I scrolled through the blog on several occasions and thought, "Wow, this guy really knows what he's talking about."

ETA: I have a button-down collar with my half Windsor.  Nay or yay?

I know him.  He has some seriously impressive bespoke clothing.

Eh, the problem with button-down collars is that they're informal.  Half-windsor knots are pretty formal, and suits and ties in general are pretty formal.  Technically, you shouldn't mix formal and informal elements unless you really know what you're doing.  The more conservative the situation, the more true that is.  You'd be safer with a point collar.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 18, 2008, 12:53:00 AM
You guys getting all neurotic about tailors/clothes seems like the opposite what sillyberry was going for with her advice.   ;)

t-fact
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 01:20:37 AM
I appreciate the advice. Can't say we're getting neurotic...yet.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on August 18, 2008, 05:15:45 AM
Oh yeah, guys, you're gonna want a suit for Levmore's welcome dinner at the end of orientation. IIRC, all the guys were wearing suits.  For girls, hard to say - I think I went with blouse and pencil skirt.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 18, 2008, 10:40:19 AM
KraKOW!

I am taking questions.

Also, if you want to see all of the most insightful posts on LSD, there's a neat trick: click "Hazard" then click "Show the last posts of this person."
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on August 18, 2008, 11:22:43 AM
Since there are some apparently very fashion-conscious people in here, and i haven't changed out of jeans and sweatshirts since the start of undergrad, does anyone wear double-windsors anymore, and where does the 3 versus 2 button suit stand today?  Also, did anyone else get that book on Chicago they recommended in the July letter?  I've been trying to follow sillyberry's advice, but i'm a sucker for history books and am kind of (sadly) geeked out about the idea of field trips and getting to know the city's history.  It wierds me out that this massive of a city could have been an onion swamp and a french-canadian saloon when my great great grandparents were alive.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on August 18, 2008, 12:36:57 PM
Oh, man! All you guys are wearing ties? I was thinking I would go with the sleek look:

(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg89/jswilker/martin2.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 18, 2008, 12:42:15 PM
You officially get permission to geek out a bit:  Bigelow Sections (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/registrar/Bigelow_Sections_2008-2009.pdf).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 12:46:49 PM
You officially get permission to geek out a bit:  Bigelow Sections (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/registrar/Bigelow_Sections_2008-2009.pdf).

How do you find stuff like this!? I need your powers.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 18, 2008, 12:52:45 PM
You officially get permission to geek out a bit:  Bigelow Sections (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/registrar/Bigelow_Sections_2008-2009.pdf).

How do you find stuff like this!? I need your powers.

I'm magic.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 12:52:51 PM
No clue what a double-windsor is, Ulpian, so that's probably not a good sign regarding its popularity.

As long as your jacket has 2 or 3 buttons, you should be fine; it's more a matter of personal taste. I personally prefer the 2-button jackets, because I don't like how far up the 3-button jackets close.

I didn't buy or read the book, unfortunately. I was tempted...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 18, 2008, 12:57:00 PM
What book did they recommend?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 01:04:29 PM
City of the Century: The Epic of Chicago and the Making of America by Donald L. Miller. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 18, 2008, 01:12:23 PM
Since there are some apparently very fashion-conscious people in here, and i haven't changed out of jeans and sweatshirts since the start of undergrad, does anyone wear double-windsors anymore, and where does the 3 versus 2 button suit stand today?  Also, did anyone else get that book on Chicago they recommended in the July letter?  I've been trying to follow sillyberry's advice, but i'm a sucker for history books and am kind of (sadly) geeked out about the idea of field trips and getting to know the city's history.  It wierds me out that this massive of a city could have been an onion swamp and a french-canadian saloon when my great great grandparents were alive.
Few wear double windsors. I haven't seen one.

Unfortunately, the 2-button suit seems to be prevalent.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 01:17:58 PM
I'm intrigued by the electives. How can one take Jurisprudence II before taking Jurisprudence I, though?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 18, 2008, 01:27:53 PM
I'm intrigued by the electives. How can one take Jurisprudence II before taking Jurisprudence I, though?

Filip was going to let me take advanced crim pro before crim pro.

Also, Con Law courses are numbered by subject, not order. So Con Law 1 = Gov structure. Con Law 3 = Equal protection and due process. Take in whatever order you want.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/courses/course_schedule.html
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 02:28:33 PM
Dear c/o 2011 section C: pwned.

Haha, oh snap! 8:30 start-time. Hey, Bathing Jesus: Pray for C.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 18, 2008, 02:42:09 PM
Dear c/o 2011 section C: pwned.

Haha, oh snap! 8:30 start-time. Hey, Bathing Jesus: Pray for C.
Fortunately, LRW only meets 4-5 times.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 02:46:25 PM
Yeah, I saw it was only once a week. That's not bad at all.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: daidaniu on August 18, 2008, 05:53:58 PM
Roman law is with Epstein.  I'd rather die.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 18, 2008, 06:11:45 PM
Dear c/o 2011 section C: pwned.

Excuse my poor comprehension, but how did you figure out the times from that chart?  I see nothing more than names and a cryptic numerical system.

I'm guessing that Sections A and D will be the cool ones.  Just a wild guess.

ETA: Roman Law FTW.  That sounds so cool.

You cross reference this (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/registrar/Bigelow_Sections_2008-2009.pdf) with this (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/courses/Course_Schedule_Autumn_2008.pdf).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 06:34:15 PM
Roman law is with Epstein.  I'd rather die.

What's wrong with Epstein? PM me, if you'd like.

I have to admit, Roman Law piqued my interest.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 18, 2008, 06:42:32 PM
Roman law is with Epstein.  I'd rather die.

What's wrong with Epstein? PM me, if you'd like.

I have to admit, Roman Law piqued my interest.

Nothing wrong, per se.  Just a pure matter of personal preference. 

He's totally unbelievably freaking brilliant, but all over the place.  He rambles in directions you never even considered.  He shouts on occasion.  He answers his cellphone during class.  Sometimes you just have to stare at him because you're completely lost and don't know how to find your way back.

Some people love him and seem to intuitively follow what he's saying.  If you need class time to be a little more methodical, he might not be your guy.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 18, 2008, 06:45:17 PM
He sounds like a barrel full of monkeys!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 18, 2008, 06:56:32 PM
Count me in the category of people who love Epstein. He makes class fun.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 18, 2008, 07:03:11 PM
Looking at the 1L profs/sections, I think its safe to say Section E has the best fall lineup. Baird, Strauss, Strahi, and Gersen? Wow.

Later quarters are more of a tossup, especially since I don't know much about some of the profs on there.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: daidaniu on August 18, 2008, 07:04:30 PM
Sillyberry's right. Maybe it's just me liking things to be a bit more methodical. I loved Strahi, for example. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 18, 2008, 07:16:48 PM
I like Strahi for his wit and overall awesomeness... But I didn't really like how property was structured (compared to, say, torts with Epstein). I think the possibility of being called on more than once or twice a quarter kept me more engaged overall.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on August 18, 2008, 11:34:21 PM
Looking at the 1L profs/sections, I think its safe to say Section E has the best fall lineup. Baird, Strauss, Strahi, and Gersen? Wow.

Later quarters are more of a tossup, especially since I don't know much about some of the profs on there.

For fall quarter, E without a doubt wins.  Speaking as someone who's had all of them at one point or another, they're all amazing.  Whoever has McAdams and Miles later in the two quarters, consider yourselves lucky too. 

Sillyberry's right. Maybe it's just me liking things to be a bit more methodical. I loved Strahi, for example. 

Me too.  And Daidaniu definitely knows how much I looooved (sarcasm) Epstein's Torts....
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 19, 2008, 10:10:28 AM
Roman law is with Epstein.  I'd rather die.

What's wrong with Epstein? PM me, if you'd like.

I have to admit, Roman Law piqued my interest.

Nothing wrong, per se.  Just a pure matter of personal preference. 

He's totally unbelievably freaking brilliant, but all over the place.  He rambles in directions you never even considered.  He shouts on occasion.  He answers his cellphone during class.  Sometimes you just have to stare at him because you're completely lost and don't know how to find your way back.

Some people love him and seem to intuitively follow what he's saying.  If you need class time to be a little more methodical, he might not be your guy.

His Roman Law course is supposed to really be incredible.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: randomman on August 19, 2008, 10:01:47 PM
Here's something I noticed looking at the Bigelow schedule: (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/registrar/Bigelow_Sections_2008-2009.pdf)

Elements is a single quarter course, and CivPro is split up into two sections.  Everyone will have two professors for Torts.  But for Property, Contracts, and Criminal Law, there is one professor who teaches both quarters; 3 Bigelow groups get them, while 3 get two different professors.  For some reason, Bigelow group F gets every one of these teachers, while Bigelow group B gets none of them.  The other 4 groups get either one or two.

I'm not sure which is the better situation to be in.  What do you guys think?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on August 19, 2008, 10:25:15 PM
Here's something I noticed looking at the Bigelow schedule: (http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/registrar/Bigelow_Sections_2008-2009.pdf)

Elements is a single quarter course, and CivPro is split up into two sections.  Everyone will have two professors for Torts.  But for Property, Contracts, and Criminal Law, there is one professor who teaches both quarters; 3 Bigelow groups get them, while 3 get two different professors.  For some reason, Bigelow group F gets every one of these teachers, while Bigelow group B gets none of them.  The other 4 groups get either one or two.

I'm not sure which is the better situation to be in.  What do you guys think?

Wow and I thought I had a lot of time on my hands :P

Anyway, it depends on the professors.  This past year, I had the Epstein/Miles Torts combo, and then the Masur/Etienne combo for Crim.  In each, I liked one professor, and really didn't like the other.  But I did fine in both classes.  I think the two-professor combo is actually a little harder come exam-time, because you're trying to figure out two different professors' exam writing styles, and what they like to see in an answer.  Not to mention, it'll usually be two issue-spotters, one for each, followed by policy or shorter issue-spotter-like question.  It gets exhausting.  Especially when you're suddenly switching gears to a totally different topic from the second quarter.  And sometimes the exams can be a little longer (by 30 min or so). 

But then again, I think it can be worth it in some cases (like what if you hate the teaching style of one professor, and you're stuck with him or her both quarters?).  For instance, I notice for Property, 3 sections have Helmholz both quarters, and the other three have a Strahi/Fennell combo.  Helmholz was visiting another school last year, so all I have is hearsay, but he can be pretty tough, and not everyone loved his style.  Then again, Fennell wasn't that popular either.  On the other hand, most people that I know from Strahi's class, myself included, LOVED him.  I would honestly prefer to be in that combo class because of how good he is.

Anyway, that's my .02 :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 19, 2008, 11:28:33 PM
NOT EVERYONE LOVES STRAHI!!!

Sorry.

Had to get that off my chest.

He's a good professor, but I do not have the same overwhelming sense of adoration as some of my classmates.

I feel better now.

:)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on August 19, 2008, 11:38:41 PM
NOT EVERYONE LOVES STRAHI!!!

Sorry.

Had to get that off my chest.

He's a good professor, but I do not have the same overwhelming sense of adoration as some of my classmates.

I feel better now.

:)

:P  I said most people love him!  But SB is right, not everyone does.  For incoming students, Strahi has a really structured class style.  Usually (but not always) there will be at least two cases you cover. He'll call on four people - two per case.  Usually the 1st and 3rd people (doing the first halves of the two cases, like facts, etc.) get off fairly easily, but the 2nd and 4th people can be in for a brutal 15-20 minutes - especially if they're not prepared - because he tends to get into more hypos and theory and note cases then.  Part of the reason why I love him is that I never got my soul crushed in his class, lol.  But I know of others who didn't have such good experiences when called on, and this really can affect your perception of the professor and class.  (this isn't directed at SB btw - I'm hazy since it was a while ago, but I think she acquitted herself well in Strahi's class when called on!)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on August 20, 2008, 12:13:28 AM
Is there any way to request being slotted into a certain schedule (A B C D E etc)?  I imagine we haven't been assigned yet, just wondering if, since no one really asks, they would care.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 20, 2008, 12:17:47 AM
But I know of others who didn't have such good experiences when called on, and this really can affect your perception of the professor and class.  (this isn't directed at SB btw - I'm hazy since it was a while ago, but I think she acquitted herself well in Strahi's class when called on!)

Nope.  One time he asked me to do math, the other I thought he was telling me my understanding of the case was wrong, not just that he disagreed with the case and what did I think about that, so it was not the most productive socratic ever.

 :D

I think I just find him a little too...master-planned.  Like it is all worked out in his head beforehand and he is a puppetmaster pulling the strings of his classroom.  It freaks me out a little.  If you're from a state or city that the case takes place, be prepared to get called on.

He does have some good one-liners though:

"It's a fun area of property law to discuss that.  We won't study it."
"I've seen Coase here a couple of times, but he teaches about as many classes as Barack Obama."
"No one wants to live in the middle of nowhere, except for Unabombers."
"Just a case where the lawyer screwed the pooch."
(When someone whispered the answer) "See, the thing is you're supposed to IM and then your professor doesn't know."
"Lets see if it lives up to the hype in a LeBron James way, or fails to in a Kwame Brown way…"
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 20, 2008, 12:32:46 AM
Is there any way to request being slotted into a certain schedule (A B C D E etc)?  I imagine we haven't been assigned yet, just wondering if, since no one really asks, they would care.

I don't know this for a fact, but I would wager to say this is a terrible idea.

The only way I can imagine the school being okay with this is you or a dependent have some medical need to be out at a certain time (like you have a regular medical appointment that conflicts with a certain class, so you would need to not be in section A, B or C).  But I imagine that gets worked out under disability accommodations.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on August 20, 2008, 01:25:47 AM
NOT EVERYONE LOVES STRAHI!!!

Sorry.

Had to get that off my chest.

He's a good professor, but I do not have the same overwhelming sense of adoration as some of my classmates.

I feel better now.

:)

I think that's the first thing I've ever heard about strahi that implies he's not the best professor/person in the history of the world.

Strahi is, IIRC, the only professor from this past year's set of 1L profs with a Facebook group devoted to him.

And his one-liners are fantastic.  I forgot about the math thing, SB!  That's ok- when Baird asked me to do math, I fumbled horribly (I think it was a simple subtraction problem to - expectation damages, schmectation damages...)

Is there any way to request being slotted into a certain schedule (A B C D E etc)?  I imagine we haven't been assigned yet, just wondering if, since no one really asks, they would care.

I doubt it.  It would get way too complicated taking requests, and really probably not fair.  And to take a different perspective, we all have our favorite professors and will talk about who, in OUR opinions, are the best, but you're not going to be screwed if you get placed in Section X over Section Y.  You're going to get really good professors, some not so good ones, and maybe an amazing one here and there. So don't worry about it. 

And you get plenty of chances to take classes with our favorite profs your 2L and 3L years.


Oh and I have to add this: I just sat through an earthquake!!!  :o  Small one...3 on the Richter scale...but still!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 20, 2008, 06:44:38 AM
"If you're from a state or city that the case takes place, be prepared to get called on."

How would he know this?  Does everybody mention their hometown before they answer a question or something?

All the professors receive a chip encoded with their students' biographical information, along with food preferences and allergies.

Quote
Oh and I have to add this: I just sat through an earthquake!!!  Shocked  Small one...3 on the Richter scale...but still!

Oh no, they say he's got to go
Go go Godzilla, yeah
Oh no, there goes Tokyo
Go go Godzilla, yeah
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: daidaniu on August 20, 2008, 07:09:55 AM
QUOTE"If you're from a state or city that the case takes place, be prepared to get called on."

How would he know this?  Does everybody mention their hometown before they answer a question or something? ENDQUOTE

(Sorry, i still haven't figured this quote thing out yet.  I'll have to get MP to help me out with it if I'm going to stay on the board)

When i got called on in Strahi's class 4 the first time, it was a case about whales (Ghen v Rich).  I thought it was totally random.  After class, someone asked me if I whaled, b/c I had a bunch of whale pictures up on my facebook page. The pics were from a trip to Alaska I had just taken b4 law school started.

It seemed for many months that everyone had some connection to the case they were called on to talk about, and some people suspected he had a research assistant mining facebook pages. Others think that is a stupid idea.  I remain agnostic. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on August 20, 2008, 08:57:53 AM
QUOTE"If you're from a state or city that the case takes place, be prepared to get called on."

How would he know this?  Does everybody mention their hometown before they answer a question or something? ENDQUOTE

(Sorry, i still haven't figured this quote thing out yet.  I'll have to get MP to help me out with it if I'm going to stay on the board)

When i got called on in Strahi's class 4 the first time, it was a case about whales (Ghen v Rich).  I thought it was totally random.  After class, someone asked me if I whaled, b/c I had a bunch of whale pictures up on my facebook page. The pics were from a trip to Alaska I had just taken b4 law school started.

It seemed for many months that everyone had some connection to the case they were called on to talk about, and some people suspected he had a research assistant mining facebook pages. Others think that is a stupid idea.  I remain agnostic. 

[ quote ][ /quote ] around your text, but no space between the bracket and the word "quote" or "/quote" ;)  You must be really bored at work!  You never come on to LSD anymore!

Yeah, actually, the two times I was called on, I had no connection to the case.  Then again, I don't think many cases come out of the obscure state I'm from.  You would think with all that land there would be SOME case that would make it into our casebook/be used for class, but nope.

But Daidaniu's whale thing was weird.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 20, 2008, 11:01:16 AM
i never got called on for a relevant case in property, but the best example was when we were talking about a case where a woman owned a lot of cats, and he called on a girl who had a lot of cats in her apartment. that was freaky.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 20, 2008, 12:16:41 PM
i never got called on for a relevant case in property, but the best example was when we were talking about a case where a woman owned a lot of cats, and he called on a girl who had a lot of cats in her apartment. that was freaky.

The reason she was called on was because a "friend" of hers told Strah about her two cats.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 20, 2008, 12:33:32 PM
i think i remember that. brutal of her friend  :-[
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 22, 2008, 04:28:25 PM
Anticipatory, I hereby banish you from the Land of Lexicon.

Which reminds me: I need to find my damn budget sheet.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 22, 2008, 04:39:53 PM
Books = ~$400

Supplements = ~$0-$200
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Somewhere on August 22, 2008, 04:40:31 PM
I hear the new fountain looks great.  It'll be nice to see what the school looks like without construction, but I don't think us 1Ls will be able to fully appreciate the differences.  (Unless, perhaps, we're reformed architecture majors who want to do modernist IP.)

Also, how much should I reasonably expect to spend on books?  I'm doing some anticipatory bookkeeping.

There will be construction to repair the fountain, at some point.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on August 22, 2008, 04:40:54 PM
I thought there were free supplements in the library.  And, wow, only $400 for books?  Great.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 22, 2008, 04:53:40 PM
I looked up on Amazon the cost of the various casebooks we used in the classes I took (it does vary some by professor). 

Property (Dukeminier) - $98.40
Civil Procedure (Yeazell) - $97.02
Criminal (Kadish) - $97.02
Torts (Epstein) - $98.40
Civil Procedure (Friedenthal) - $107.20
Contracts (Dawson (and Baird)) - $144.00 (we used a paper version from the copy center b/c this hadn't been published yet)
Elements (coursepack from the copy center) - $30.00 or so

These are the prices new - you can get them for less used.  There were also a few other non-casebook books, as well as supplemental coursepacks bought from the copy center, but this should give you an idea overall.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 22, 2008, 05:27:06 PM
Sillyberry: any comment on the supplements?  Can you find them for free in the library, as I thought?  Was that wishful thinking?

Thanks.

I never looked in the library for supplements, so I have no idea.  I got most of my supplements from an upperclassman (hi Hazard!) who I <3.  The other ones I wanted I got mostly from half.com.

There is also a time every quarter where Greenbooks sells used hornbooks in the green lounge, and students will send book sales to lawannounce (the law school listserve).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 22, 2008, 07:17:53 PM
I thought there were free supplements in the library.  And, wow, only $400 for books?  Great.


I meant for the fall quarter and it's highly dependent on which profs you get and used book availability. A rough metric would be $400 in the fall and then $200 for the winter and spring since two of your classes continue from the prior quarter.

There are lots of supplements that can be checked out for two hours at a time in the library but you'll likely want your own.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 22, 2008, 07:43:41 PM
I never bothered to check whether the library offered supplements, but I imagine that really isn't the best way to use a supplement (if you do end up using one). The library will have restrictions on use, I'm sure.

In either event, I also got most of the supplements I used from an uppreclasmen (hi MTG!) and I imagine its possible for some of you to do the same. I did buy a couple on my own, either because I wanted something others didn't have or because the prof  included it in their book list.

Looking at the 1L prof list, there doesn't appear to be as many "definitive" supplements that I can think of. What you'll want, if you do end up needing anything at all, will depend on a lot of personal factors. So try not to buy anything until you see all that is available AND what you think your weaknesses are. Are what 2L and 3L friends have to determine what works for you. For example, a lot of people like the Examples and Explanations series (Buss actually includes it as a required book for CivPro), but I found it useless.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 22, 2008, 07:45:18 PM
Wow, there are a lot of misspelled/misplaced words in the post.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: polaremu on August 23, 2008, 12:40:32 PM
If any 1Ls are around Regents now, I've got a whole bunch of books and supplements for 1L classes in my apartment. I'm in Regents and I'm packing all my stuff and have to be out by tomorrow and don't want to deal with them. I'll give them away for free, so just stop by 1905-N and you can take anything that I have. I'll only be around today so if you want them come soon
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 23, 2008, 02:44:24 PM
You still there?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: polaremu on August 23, 2008, 03:00:31 PM
too late, its all gone
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 23, 2008, 03:20:08 PM
The vultures! Jackals, one and all!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 23, 2008, 07:16:35 PM
*meekly raises hand*
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on August 23, 2008, 11:55:48 PM
me too

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on August 24, 2008, 10:28:26 PM
I was feeling pretty impressed by our 41 page UChi 2011 thread until I saw that Michigan is in the 200s.  How is that even possible? Are we just more succinct?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 01:33:59 PM
I was feeling pretty impressed by our 41 page UChi 2011 thread until I saw that Michigan is in the 200s.  How is that even possible? Are we just more succinct?
It's because most of the 2011 posts were posted in the 2010 thread.

I guess I'll copy/paste some of my old posts since people are asking the same old questions.

Intro
What follows is a collection of slightly-modified posts culled from my many posts over the past year or so. Hopefully these are useful and instructive, and they should answer a number of questions that I had when I was a 0L.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 02:00:09 PM
Pre-Law Summer

A few pre-law books:

Getting to Maybe
This is supposed to be the best book on taking law school exams. It's written by some profs. A lot of people recommend this book, but I don't know many that have read it. Both my roommate and I have a copy of it, and neither has read it. I lent mine to a friend to read, and she read it all. Said it was "eh". I read about 50 pages and then got tired of it.

Intro to Study and Practice of Law in a Nutshell
One of the only pre-1L books that doesn't try to scare you. Like every other nutshell, decent for the general contours, but not a silver bullet.

Acing Your First Year of Law School: The Ten Steps to Success You Won't Learn in Class 
OK section on Bluebooking

Law School Confidential
These people are out of control. I really feel like they want you to work harder than you have to. I tried the highlighting method, but I didn't find it terribly useful. I do agree that briefing inside your book is fast and completely acceptable, especially since I didn't use my briefs for my outlines. My roommate's briefs were used in his outlines, so he disagrees with me.

1L
Everyone has read it. Factually inaccurate. Emotionally accurate, at least for me.

The Paper Chase
Everyone has seen it. It's not really a great movie, but hey, it's about us!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 02:03:16 PM
Hornbooks and Study Aids

Should I get a hornbook? - Here is a list of types of hornbooks with summaries. You should not necessarily get a hornbook for every subject. The most important thing you can do is to read your assigned reading twice, brief, and outline. These supplements are just that - supplements that should help you get a bigger picture or fill in some holes. The professors disagree with these hornbooks all of the time. There are very few that come highly recommended.

The "real" hornbooks - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0314748806/toplawschools-20 - are too long and detailed for a law student. They should only be used for research or if you are thoroughly confused. I own one for Civ Pro II that I got for Erie Doctrine purposes. They have these in the library as well. They do look very pretty, so I plan on buying some more.

Gilbert's does a straight, black letter outline of the entire subject area, almost as if they had written statutes for the entire common law. They cite cases for each proposition of law. I had the Gilbert's property book, and I didn't find it terribly useful for my professor.

E&E does an overview of the law, then asks some questions about it to help you test your knowledge. They usually explain the case rather than giving a one-line summary. I had the Torts E&E and the Civ Pro E&E. The Civ Pro one was extremely useful, especially for the Erie Doctrine, which is usually covered in Civ Pro II. I did not have much use for the Torts E&E.

The Emmanuel's summaries are outlines of the entire course, with summaries of important cases. They also sell Emmanuel's that are "keyed" to a certain casebook. http://www.amazon.com/Emanuel-Law-Outlines-Property-Dukeminier/dp/0735561516/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-3872460-1528762?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187375377&sr=1-1
These are useful, and at $30 each I would pick one up for every casebook that they are keyed to, or at least try to get one from an upperclassman. They do a decent job of explaining both a summary of the case and what that casebook author had used the case to say. I know some people that relied on these as their sole hornbook, but if I were to be stuck on a desert island, I would take an Understanding book. Edit: I found the general, non-keyed, less useful.

Casenotes - http://www.amazon.com/Casenote-Legal-Briefs-Dukeminier-Alexander/dp/0735558345/ref=sr_1_5/104-3872460-1528762?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187375294&sr=8-5 - I did not use any of these. I have a friend that did, and I read some of hers. I didn't think that they were useful as a study aid. However, they might come in handy if I were to not be prepared for class. But then I could just download a BLSA outline instead...

The Understanding Series is great. I'd recommend buying one if you're having problems. I'd buy one for Property with Strahilevitz. They do black letter and policy both. They tracked very well with a few of my profs - far better than any other series did. I talked with Professors Garnett and Garnett, and they both said Understanding is the only one they'd use.

Nutshells are nice for an overview of the law, but not if you're going to take the class. I checked out one of these for a thing I was working on over the summer - I needed a primer on some area of law, and I read about 1/2 of one, and I felt like I knew the general contours.

“Policy books” (not my term, maybe I am misinterpreting what it means) - The example that comes to mind is Levmore's Foundations of Tort Law book. That book is a collection of Dean Levmore's favorite Tort articles. Levmore is a very big on themes, and the articles in that book are exactly what he thinks the themes are.

The casebook is useful for what it is - an introduction to and example of the law. You should read every page assigned. However, I agree that it is of little use during exam preparation if you've been doing your homework. The ideal is to have class notes that reflect the professor's views of the legal areas, and then to have short, one-line summaries of cases. Example: Vosburg v Putney - kicking people is battery, have to pay actual damages (eggshell plaintiff). Then, in your outline, you'd have something for the elements of battery and the damages section of battery. If you have a professor that talked quickly (Gersen), then the Understanding Torts book is extremely useful in that it gives summaries of policy reasons we have certain rules. The book becomes even more useful when the hornbook is written by the casebook author. That was true in one of the Crim sections and one of the Civ Pro sections. Additionally, Understanding Torts tracks the Farnsworth Grady Torts casebook very well. However, Glannon's E&E on Torts is not terribly useful beyond the elements of the law. Understanding Torts already has that. Either way, the hornbook is a useful tool to fill in gaps in your notes. If you're going to be tested only on black letter, then perhaps E&E and Gilbert's will be a big help. Most of the profs I had wanted more than that. I know that Professor Epstein is notorious for asking lots of black letter on exams.

Practice exams are extremely useful. Grading is subjective. You're given model answers from past exams, and most of these have similar styles of analysis, writing style, etc. etc. Read these and you're much better off. Also, some professors give similar questions each year. One of the Civ Pro profs always asks a question about class action certification, so I made sure I knew that one as well as possible.

Hopefully this is coherent.

Ok, so which are recommended for this year's profs?
Gerson - Understanding Torts
Levmore - Foundations of Tort Law
Bernstein - Chirilstein's Contracts (only follow the black letter here, not the policy)
Strahilevitz - Understanding Property
Civ Pro - Glannon's Civ Pro E&E (only for the summary, not for the Examples)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 02:03:49 PM
A brief review of 1L profs

Civ pro:
Baird - supposed to be one of the best profs in the nation. Bernstein says he's one of the top 3 legal teachers there is. His condo is essentially on campus, and he walks to school. An extremely nice guy, and loved by the students. I had him fro Secured Transactions, and he made it not boring. How he did that is a mystery and the reason he’s so well-loved.

Buss – people disagree.

Hornbook - Glannon Civ Pro E&E (applies to both)

Elements:
First, elements is a weird class. I believe only one other law school teaches it. It is an overview of major legal ideas. It goes into things like Legal Realism, Behavioral Economics, etc. Many of the readings weren't originally legal in nature. Excerpts from Burke, Hobbes, Aesop, and others all analogized to legal ideas. As someone without a liberal education - I have a business degree - this was useful. This class brings up legal philosophy, so thus politics. I found it interesting.

Strauss - great prof. He's amazing at making very complex ideas very simple. He will re-word your answers to him to make you sound brilliant and insightful. Some feel that he's slightly liberal biased, in that he doesn't seem to give the strongest conservative arguments every time. Others think he's balanced. BLSA outlines can be useful.

Contracts:
Bernstein – Well loved outside of class. The class of 2009 and Bernstein have a love-hate relationship. She is supposedly excellent in class for everyone except class of 2009’s contracts. Hornbook - Chirilstein's Contracts.

Ben-Shahar – I went and did some research on this one. He’s new faculty, hired from Michigan. He’s supposed to be amazing. Many Mich students called him their favorite professor ever.

Property:
Strahilevitz - amazing prof. Does 5 minute recaps of the previous day's stuff every class period. A wonderful class. Also contends for my favorite prof. Hornbook - Understanding Property is extremely useful.

Helmholz – well loved, “the hammer”.

Torts:
Miles - supposed to be great. I've heard quite a few people say how much they enjoyed his class.

Gersen - A recent UChicago Law graduate - Class of 04. He also does 5 minute recaps at the beginning of class, but he talks so fast that you probably won't be able to write it down.  He's good in office hours at explaining things that you had trouble with in class, so don't be shy. I really enjoyed his class, but others did not. The main complaint is that there's so much ambiguity in class. I would agree, but note that there is much ambiguity in the law. Hornbook - Understanding Torts helps.

Levmore - amazing prof. You learn a ton about lots of random things - Kabuki theater, Japanese baseball, and how to get a letter to the editor published. A professor at the University of Texas called him "a shining light of tort law". He's one of my favorite profs. Hornbook - "Foundations of Tort Law", and please be sure to read it. Sometimes, he'll pull things directly from those articles for class. It's a big help, if you actually read the thing. Our library should have a few copies. He assigned it as optional reading for the class of 2009. Also, he has law review articles that he's published about things that you cover in class.

Crim:
Harcourt – super-nice guy, can’t run a large class.

Masur – used to be a Bigelow. Don’t ask anonymous about him, since anon’s crazy biased.

LRW:
The Bigelow folks change out every year or every other year. I've never heard a horror story. Professor Cox was a Bigelow at one time. So was Professor Masur.


Outlining
Outlining - combining all of your notes into a single document, grouped by topic. Outlines range from 5 pages to 100 pages. Professor Samaha recommends having two outlines - a short, 5 page outline with the most basic elements, and a longer, 40-60 page outline with in-depth analysis. You should start your outline after you can start to categorize the information you're learning, or when the quarter is halfway over. There will usually be a big party the weekend before people start outlining. Personally, I waited until near the end to start, but that's not really a great idea. You need to finish your outlines at least a week before the exam so you can do a few practice exams. In reality, you're lucky if you finish 48 hours before the exam.

Sample outline:
...
IV. Negligence
 A. Elements
  1. Duty
   a. There are sometimes duties - Smith v. Jones (Casebook pg. 200)
  2. Breach
...
 B. Themes / Unicorn
  1. Recurring Miss
  2. Wrongdoer pays
...

Briefing - writing a brief synopsis of a case, usually for class purposes, but sometimes can be modified to use in your outline. Many students stop briefing by the end of the Winter quarter. I started doing 3-4 sentence briefs towards the end.

Sample brief:
Vosburg v. Putney
Both are students. Putney kicked Vosburg in the shin after the teacher told them to sit down. Vosburg's leg had complications from a previous incident - "eggshell plaintiff". Vosburg wins under theory of "battery".

Edit: I should note that this is a much-later-in-the-year-I-know-what-I'm-doing-and-what-the-profs-are-looking-for style brief. Earlier in the year, I had much more information, such as year, court, etc. etc. Sometimes your profs care about it, sometimes they don't. I certainly recorded Posner or Easterbrook, as well as Learned Hand, Holmes, Cardozo, Friendly, and any SCOTUS judge. In one of my exams the professor had us in the 7th circuit for the case, and I probably should have written something like "there are 3 methods a court might use. They are 1) 2) 3). The 7th Circuit uses 2)." However, I did not remember that fact until after the exam and my grade worked out just fine - one of my best grades. So there's a data point - no need to remember everything to do well.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 02:05:18 PM
Study Help

There are 3Ls that are paid (I think) to help you with studying and whatnot. I've never used them personally, but I've been to their presentations. Informal information is the best for knowing what to look for in a particular professor's exam.

Also, Bigelows are a huge help. I took a course third quarter where most of the other students were 2Ls and 3Ls, and I hadn't been exposed to one of the topics the professor thought everyone know. I went to my Bigelow fellow to ask about it and he was a huge help.

I have been a terrible student most of my life, and I was able to figure out how to get around OK.
 
Economics

I haven't touched heavy economics since I got here. The faculty realizes that 1/2 the students were humanities majors in part to avoid math. That being said, economics has become fairly important to the development of the law, so you're going to hear people talk about Pareto Efficiency and the Coase Theorem. That SHOULD be true at any school. I'd be wary of schools were that wasn't true. I had no idea what those were before law school, and they were both explained quite well.

It's hard to say where you'll first run into these concepts - they have applications in almost every area of law. However, the 1L teachers coordinate lesson planning, and you'll hear the explanation too many times rather than too few. Since the explanations take about 2 minutes, it's not a huge burden.

Socratic and Competitiveness

Why do they like/use Socratic? It's more interesting to hear other people's opinions. It prepares you to speak and think on your feet without being nervous. I should emphasize that professors don't want to waste people's time. They usually don't stop on someone that doesn't know what's going on - it's a waste of time.

2L year it's definitely less Socratic than 1L year. In seminars, they usually ask for volunteers and go from there.

Competitiveness? At the top of the class, I think people try really hard. No one is hiding books or anything a la One L. At where I am, I just -try- to do all the reading for the year and try to study for 3+ days for each exam.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 02:05:59 PM
Grades

Professors grade your exams. There are no TAs or anything like that. These exams can either be take-home exams or in-class. Take homes usually last 8 hours, and can now be picked up via PDF online, rather than having to physically go to the school and back. In-class exams usually last 3 hours. Both exams are turned in via e-mail. Grades are typically based on finals - one's ability to answer won't reflect your grade, unless that ability is due to constant absenteeism. The Socratic stuff isn't anything to be intimidated by, and most of the enforcement for giving a good faith effort here is self-induced. No one wants to feel silly.

I don't know of any classes that have midterms, except for an "Accounting for Lawyers" course being taught in the business school. Some courses do not have exams, but instead have weekly or bi-weekly short papers. Other classes have a huge paper, but these courses usually give you some extra time to turn it in. For more information on specific courses, check out http://www.law.uchicago.edu/courses/ and click "All".

---

What about those people with high grades? (advice that applies to all classes)

High grades are contagious, but I know at least a handful of people with 7+ point splits in a single quarter (at Chicago, that's a huge distance. A 173 average means recruitment is tough, a 180 average is grade-on law review and good chance at good clerkships). This is with similar study/prep for all classes.

Throughout the semester, the big study tip is to do all your reading, twice if you have the energy, and pay attention in class. Towards the end of the semester, make an outline or find someone else's and get to know it well.

If I knew what I know now, I'd read the old model answers and work through them. How did they set up the problem, did they use short sentences, did they talk about policy a lot, etc. Stylistic mimicry is invaluable. If I can emphasize one thing, this is it. This is part of what it means to know what your professor likes. Also, make sure you don't just mimic the style and have no substance (see "that one time..."). Make a checklist of major things in the class and force them into your answer.

I like to dig through old exams and see what issues came up before. Twice this year I had exams where the professors almost lifted the old question. In 1L year, I had a professor that asked about 2 of 3 concepts every year. (Y1 was A B, Y2 was B C, Y3 was C A, Y4 was ...). I made sure I knew those 3 concepts, and lo and behold, they were on the exam again.

----

Grades and 1L Summer Employment

Grades can matter, but don't seem to always matter. You send your stuff out December 1, and you might not get any phone calls until January. The last phone call I got was in February. Every firm I got a call from asked for grades. If your grades are amazing, you should send them out to the firms that haven't yet rejected you. E-mail them a PDF or something.

If you're a firm given the opportunity to take in a 1L with perfect grades, you're going to take it. A friend of mine had amazing first quarter grades, and I'm sure that affected his offers. Another friend at another school interviewed with a firm that said they were holding off on offers until grades came in. His were -terrible- and they didn't give him an offer. It also helps if you have some connection, any connection, to the firm or a member of the firm, but it's very hard to figure out at what random time you might have crossed paths. One firm only took people that went to high school in that city. Being a URM helps as well.

Remember that only about a third of the class gets summer jobs at a firm. It's a shot in the dark. You get help for having amazing grades, being a URM, or having a city/firm connection.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 02:06:22 PM
Workshops

In Workshop courses, outside professors come to give presentations to faculty. Students can attend these presentations for a grade, and are usually asked to turn in papers based on the upcoming presentation. Examples:
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/courses/coursedetails.html?CourseNumber=63612&SectionNumber=1&Quarter=1&Year=2007
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/courses/coursedetails.html?CourseNumber=63712&SectionNumber=1&Quarter=2&Year=2008
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 02:06:50 PM
Hyde Park

Hyde Park during the day feels safe. South of 62nd street, which is where I usually park, does not feel safe in the daytime.  I, personally, have not had any problems, but if I'm staying at the law school after dark I'll go get my car and move it closer.

You'll get different answers from males (annonymous, me) and girls (MP).

I also stay away from the public schools when they let out. I generally stay away from anywhere I see multiple police vehicles.

---

I think it's necessary to have a car in Hyde Park, but others disagree. It's nice to be able to drive to a Target.

Stay away from the Walmart on Cicero. Other Walmarts talk trash about it, it's so terrible. It's eternally Christmas-eve busy. They're notorious for lying to you over the phone. The traffic over there can be horrendous - it's about a 30 minute drive in low traffic. The Target on Roosevelt is hands down your best bet - a 15-minute drive and a lot less busy. There is another Walmart down south, but it's a long way away. You'd save money on gas going to Target.

Also, the Dominick's near that Target is a great place to grocery shop.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 25, 2008, 02:08:40 PM
Other information

Since the search function is dead, here are links to well-frequented U of C posts.

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,95627.530.html
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,86734.4110.html

Other Questions
Dig through clairel's old posts, or MindTheGap76's. They seem to post less, while sillberry, annonymous, etc. are still posting frequently.

clairel's old posts - http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php?action=profile;u=11211;sa=showPosts

Conclusion
See you in a month.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 25, 2008, 02:40:46 PM
Damn that was useful!

All I want to add is that I met the new Elements prof yesterday (randomly in HP) and she seemed incredibly nice and well-spoken. I think you guys will really enjoy having her.

The one thing I would stress is Hazard's emphasis on looking at old exam answers and trying to mimic them. Last year my best grades were in classes where we had old exams and answers to study from. I managed to get more new profs than others and many of them did not have old exams to study from resulting in lower grades for me. Obviously someone has to do well in each section so some people must be better at adapting on the fly, but I found going over old exams (and answers) to be very useful.

I wouldn't buy any hornbooks until you know which profs you have. I probably used all of the different types at some point and like Hazard said, different classes call for different types of books.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 25, 2008, 04:07:40 PM
there was a good resolution to the immigration law exam debacle last quarter, in case anyone remembers. basically, i think they suspended the curve so everyone did halfway decently.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 25, 2008, 04:11:32 PM
also, ditto to all of hazard's advice. i walk around a lot during the day (though if i park below 62nd street, i only would get my car during the day and move it to the lot after 4, which ends up being useful). also, i've never ever had an issue with competitiveness. i've emailed people i barely know to share notes or outlines and never had a problem at all.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 25, 2008, 06:46:53 PM
I'm pretty sure "how to brief a case" is included in orientation. For what its worth, I think I only briefed cases my first couple days of class. It got tiring after that and I just ended up writing what I thought was relevant. Soon after that I just highlighted and didn't take notes on readings.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 25, 2008, 06:52:07 PM
I hate it when someone deletes a post after you reply to it. :p
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 25, 2008, 07:00:32 PM
Yeah, he likes to do that.

Thanks for all the information, Hazard, et al. Should prove to be useful.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 25, 2008, 07:17:34 PM
77 pages? That's gonna be the norm, my friend. Oh yes. Sept. 29th. ;]
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 25, 2008, 07:49:06 PM
77 pages? That's gonna be the norm, my friend. Oh yes. Sept. 29th. ;]

Actually the majority of readings will be about 10 pages. But they will be a dense 10 pages.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 26, 2008, 04:01:56 AM
The "debacle" didn't have to do with the class itself.

We email our completed exams in to the registrar. But someone accidentally emailed their immigration exam on the law school listserv instead (before everyone else had taken the exam).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 26, 2008, 08:24:11 AM
Does anyone know if the internet ban is still in place?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 26, 2008, 09:20:24 AM
Nevermind the d-dub.  Thanks, Hazard and company.

Are there any specific clairel or MTG posts that I should read?  You posted those links, but 77 pages is a bit much.

Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do to help you get around this. I agree with all of the advice clairel has given, and if you have free time and some law school concerns, it's worth your time to dig through it all.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 26, 2008, 12:21:39 PM
it's nice to be appreciated.

when i have more time, i might track down some of my more pertinent nuggets of wisdom.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 26, 2008, 12:32:26 PM
I'm digging through them as we speak. I'm a wealthy man!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 26, 2008, 12:38:35 PM
MTG also has some really good posts. i think the best advice i can give you is to not freak out. i did first quarter and those were my lowest grades (although maybe everyone else freaked out even more than me?). even if you're in the bottom of the class, if you're not a complete doofus and don't wear sweatpants to OCI, you'll get a job.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 26, 2008, 03:45:23 PM
Are you saying I won't get a job if I were sweat pants during OCI? Damn this economy!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 26, 2008, 03:51:03 PM
PSA: Southwest Airlines sucks. They want $45 to let me go standby for a flight that is 1/2 full despite it being hours earlier than my current flight.

PSA: The Philadelphia airport has very few outlets and my computer is about to die.

PSA: These two things considered together are even worse.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 26, 2008, 04:14:57 PM
Philly has a lot of secret outlets. Check under seats in the terminals.

I think I prefer southwest, just because they don't charge extra for every little thing (like checking in a bag) and the seats are comfortable.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 26, 2008, 04:18:44 PM
Southwest is the best.

They haven't gone into bankruptcy. What does that tell you? (hint: it tells you that they are awesome)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 26, 2008, 04:31:16 PM
Generally I like Southwest, I just don't understand what the harm is to let me take an earlier flight since I got here earlier. I guess the upshot is that I'll be one of the first 10 or so people on the plane when it finally boards.

And I did find a secret outlet. Thanks Pre!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 26, 2008, 05:17:18 PM
You, sir, are a sick, sick man. ;]
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 26, 2008, 05:20:14 PM
Oh, that's it, buddy: I am going to quote everything you say in this thread here on out! Grrr.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 26, 2008, 05:27:15 PM
Is there a specific class that explains things like the Coase Theorem, or do they just integrate it into discussions of, say, Contracts?


It's integrated everywhere, specifically in Torts and Property.

Also, notice that the booklist has been updated and both Civ Pro sections are using the same book if you guys feel like going out to get it (and obviously read it cover to cover  :)). I only mention it because I know I like to search for bargains on books. Enjoy.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 26, 2008, 05:39:07 PM
Is there a specific class that explains things like the Coase Theorem, or do they just integrate it into discussions of, say, Contracts?

It's hard to say where you'll first run into these concepts - they have applications in almost every area of law. However, the 1L teachers coordinate lesson planning, and you'll hear the explanation too many times rather than too few. Since the explanations take about 2 minutes, it's not a huge burden.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 26, 2008, 05:55:10 PM
I think the first time I ran into the coase theorem was in property, but that at have just been the most memorable since Strahi called on me to talk about it (for once abandoning his practice of calling on people related to the case, because I know nothing about economics).

Either way, coase theorem isn't a problem, its fairly intuitive. I think most of the econ you'll get as a 1L is like that.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 27, 2008, 09:40:09 AM
I have like 30 interviews and am in the middle of the class. There's no way in hell I'm not getting an offer, right?

You just have to make nice for your interviews and be presentable. Seem interested and interesting and make them think you will be at that firm for the rest of your life.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sortofnewls on August 27, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
I have like 30 interviews and am in the middle of the class. There's no way in hell I'm not getting an offer, right?

I was told before OCI that most questions would be permutations of the following, and it was right:
1. Why X firm
2. Why X city
3. What area are you interested in working and why
4. Why you (i.e. why should X firm hire you student)

Also - if you are worried about your grades don't offer your transcript up when you walk in, wait until they ask for it at the end, or offer it at the end of the interview.  A friend of mine who interviews says that they tune out if the transcript is not what they hope for, but if they like the person and the transcript they get after the interview is borderline then they generally give a callback.

Finally, have some questions prepared that you can ask that are a little better than "tell me about your summer program".
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 27, 2008, 12:59:32 PM
I have like 30 interviews and am in the middle of the class. There's no way in hell I'm not getting an offer, right?

I was told before OCI that most questions would be permutations of the following, and it was right:
1. Why X firm
2. Why X city
3. What area are you interested in working and why
4. Why you (i.e. why should X firm hire you student)

Also - if you are worried about your grades don't offer your transcript up when you walk in, wait until they ask for it at the end, or offer it at the end of the interview.  A friend of mine who interviews says that they tune out if the transcript is not what they hope for, but if they like the person and the transcript they get after the interview is borderline then they generally give a callback.

Finally, have some questions prepared that you can ask that are a little better than "tell me about your summer program".



Especially why X city if it's not Chicago or NYC.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on August 27, 2008, 01:01:21 PM
MTG also has some really good posts. i think the best advice i can give you is to not freak out. i did first quarter and those were my lowest grades (although maybe everyone else freaked out even more than me?). even if you're in the bottom of the class, if you're not a complete doofus and don't wear sweatpants to OCI, you'll get a job.

Damn, there go my chances.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 27, 2008, 01:02:58 PM
Why the law?
Are you interested in going back to (thing on your resume)? Why not?
I only hand over the transcript if they ask. I don't know what those 180+ people do, but I figure all firms look at all grades.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 27, 2008, 03:28:22 PM
i always handed it over at the end while leaving unless requested earlier AND i actually ordered official transcripts online, so they were in an envelope and the interviewer very rarely opened it in front of me. i have no idea if it helped/hurt me, but if you think your grades aren't your strongest point, i wouldn't advertise them unless asked.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 27, 2008, 07:00:11 PM
Wow, 30 interviews is insane. You're going to start tiring out at somepoint, no? I thing I'm going to end up doing about 12-15 interviews (and cancel some if I start getting callbacks early).

So far in interviews (I did a pre-OCI job fair, and a couple callbacks from that) the toughest question I got was the "why 2 cities" one. I only came across the "why law school" question a couple times (and my science heavy resume screams for that question) but it was a fairly easy question. The rest of the time it was just questions off my resume and them trying to sell the firm. I don't know if OCI is the same way, but that's just been my experience so far.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 27, 2008, 08:04:45 PM
I never went to the OCI events either, so who knows. I mean, I did get 29 interviews through the lotto system, I'm just planning on cancelling half right off the bat. But what do I know? Any of the 3Ls feel like sharing their OCI numbers?

And for the person who asked: I'm not sure if I want to do IP or not. I've been telling firms I'm generally interested in litigation, and would like to explore specific areas like IP (but don't know enough about it). After only one year of law school, firms understand that.

But yes, I think IP does change things a bit (especially if you can sit for the patent bar).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 27, 2008, 08:32:05 PM
FYI, anyone so inclined (or just curious), should join the UChicago Federalist Society facebook page, which we just started recently:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-University-of-Chicago-Law-School-Federalist-Society/27315517696?ref=s&refurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fs.php%3Fq%3Dfederalist%2Bsociety%2B%26init%3Dq

(I hope that link works)

We're going to be announcing our October events soon, both through the facebook page and our website. Its shaping up to be a pretty awesome year in terms of events (thanks to our fantastic VP for Speakers, who I want to mention here but I'm not sure if she's LSD-outed yet). Don't quote me on this, but we may actually have as many (if not more) lunch events this October than we did all fall quarter last year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 27, 2008, 11:35:45 PM
i think 25-30 is a lot, but safer to do that to ensure a potential job (i did around 30 and plenty of others i know did between 20-30, especially in more competitive markets). cancel ahead of time if you feel too tired out, but i think three interviews a day, with four once in a while, is definitely doable.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 28, 2008, 06:24:06 AM
Everybody going to the Skadden reception 09/03?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 28, 2008, 09:19:23 AM
I think 20-30 is the norm. (Insert sentence on "today's economy".) If there are only 5 in your city though, then you've got no choice (Austin, Texas). I'd send out letters if you have less than 10 from your city coming to OCI.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 28, 2008, 11:11:20 AM
i think they're fun for the free drinks and food. i also think they're probably worth going to after you've gotten an offer from the firm (to see how you'd fit in with the attorneys).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 28, 2008, 11:37:21 AM
Am I supposed to know anything about this reception?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 28, 2008, 12:21:11 PM
Did you bid on any Skadden offices? If not, then no.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 28, 2008, 12:42:43 PM
Hazard, clairel, MTG, etc...

I'm looking at my OCI schedule, and I basically only have that one week before classes free for callbacks, so I would be able to do a max of 5 callbacks before classes.  Is that about normal?  Do most people end up doing callbacks in October after classes have started?

You can sometimes do two callbacks in a day (morning/afternoon into evening). And I know people who definitely did CBs into October once classes started.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on August 28, 2008, 01:48:06 PM
2Ls get two callback days (monday and tuesday, as i remember), usually in october. however, those days were late in the oci season so i didn't use them for most of my callbacks. skipping a few days of class (email your professor ahead of time....all the ones i emailed had no problem with that, even mentioning that during the first day of class, and a few emailed me back wishing me luck) and combining your interviews if you're traveling elsewhere is fine after school starts. most firms allow you to do it on friday or monday so travel is easier.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 28, 2008, 03:08:32 PM
Do your callbacks ASAP and skip class to do it.

I didn't take any Friday classes, and I'm sure Henderson is OK with skipping Friday's if you e-mail him.

OCI is game time. If you want to work BigLaw out of school, go all out - bid on 25-30 firms in your city and go to every event your interviewing firms offer. Schedule you callbacks early, and don't do two callbacks in a single day unless you are sure of your ability to interview for 8 hours straight.

Just like with law school applications, the early callbacks have an easier time of things.

Heck, I know some people that have did callbacks before OCI started if they wanted to be in the city that they stayed at during the summer. This is a great idea, although difficult to pull off and not necessary.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on August 28, 2008, 04:23:10 PM
[pictures Hazard applying war paint right before an interview]
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on August 28, 2008, 04:38:46 PM
[pictures Hazard applying war paint right before an interview]
I apply war paint with some frequency.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 28, 2008, 05:44:40 PM
I love how you guys are discussing OCI in the 2011 thread.   :P

LSD 2010 > LSD 2011, I'm afraid.

We gotta catch you guys up to Michigan

It's nicer not having to read both threads, that's for sure. Efficiency!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 28, 2008, 06:15:00 PM
In that case, why not convert all of LSD to one thread?  Another neat summation would probably involve the term "t14" and represent much of what has been said here.

How dare you suggest a mongrelization of Chicago blood! I say good day to you, sir!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 28, 2008, 06:36:07 PM
Is it necessary to get the latest edition of a book for a class that simply lists "latest" under the edition on the booklist? Landes did this and didn't even realize that a new edition was out.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 29, 2008, 11:54:53 PM
The Snail vs. Siam vs. Thai 55:

Which one is your favorite?

I'm partial to the yellow curry at Siam (especially during lunch - cheap cheap!) and the kee mow at The Snail.  I still haven't been to Thai 55, as it is 1 minute 15 seconds from my back porch to The Snail and walking the extra minute seems much too difficult.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MindTheGap76 on August 30, 2008, 12:21:32 AM
The Snail vs. Siam vs. Thai 55:

Which one is your favorite?

The Snail
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on August 30, 2008, 12:36:40 AM
I've only had Thai 55 so far, but the pineapple fried rice is awesome.

Where is the Snail?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on August 30, 2008, 01:36:19 AM
Go to Thai 55. Walk towards the lake about 150 feet.

Tada!  You'll hit both the snail and siam - they're next door to each other.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on August 30, 2008, 04:11:02 PM
Best drycleaner with one-day turnaround in HP? I go to the one at 51st and Blackstone but they take 3 days and my OCI shirts need cleaned on a faster turnaround.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on August 30, 2008, 05:36:31 PM
Have any of you guys NOT been to Hot Doug's (http://www.hotdougs.com/) yet?  I'm considering starting a shuttle service for those unfortunate few UChicago students who have never been.  Everybody deserves a rattlesnake sausage once in their life.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on August 30, 2008, 06:53:28 PM
Damn, 15 miles from HP, too. I'd burn the meal off from the bike ride home, but likely lose a kneecap, too.

Hm, the blueline doesn't stop too far from it, though.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on August 30, 2008, 08:11:04 PM
Best drycleaner with one-day turnaround in HP? I go to the one at 51st and Blackstone but they take 3 days and my OCI shirts need cleaned on a faster turnaround.

On 53rd, next to Ribs n Bibs
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on August 31, 2008, 11:16:09 AM
Damn, 15 miles from HP, too. I'd burn the meal off from the bike ride home, but likely lose a kneecap, too.

Hm, the blueline doesn't stop too far from it, though.

It's worth it.  So worth it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 01, 2008, 05:23:53 PM
Has anyone here had luck with the alum mentoring program they offered back in July?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on September 01, 2008, 07:08:43 PM
Has anyone here had luck with the alum mentoring program they offered back in July?

Yes.  My alum emailed me, and we are meeting this month sometime.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 01, 2008, 07:16:34 PM
Has anyone here had luck with the alum mentoring program they offered back in July?

Yep.  I talked to my alum on the phone.  Nice guy.  He works in-house, so it wasn't as relevant as I might have liked, but I still learned a lot.  He told me to treat LS like a full-time job and to enjoy myself because the real world involves lots of hours.  He backed up that adjective by saying, and I paraphrase, that, "[He] usually works a few post-dinner hours."

On an unrelated note, I'm tempted to just FB the entire 2011 class; it'll probably happen sooner or later.  Go for it?  Too much?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 01, 2008, 07:23:38 PM
I also talked to a random lawyer in our office building if you want a summary of that conversation.  Come to think of it, I'm like a repository of non-sequitur anecdotes.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on September 01, 2008, 07:27:15 PM
On an unrelated note, I'm tempted to just FB the entire 2011 class; it'll probably happen sooner or later.  Go for it?  Too much?

Several students already have done this, so I don't think it's too much.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 01, 2008, 07:29:03 PM
That's tempting, Bosco.  Maybe I even want to be that "one guy who never accepts friend requests on FB." 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on September 01, 2008, 07:47:34 PM
for anyone interested, I have various study aids and case books for Torts, Civ Pro and Property I'm selling.  Most of them are mine so they were new when I got them, highlighting in them now.  I also have stuff for Crim but I don't think you guys have that this quarter.  Let me know by PM if you're interested.

Oh and I'll prob have more stuff this week when I raid my locker too
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 01, 2008, 07:49:50 PM
Do we already have our reading lists?   ???
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on September 01, 2008, 07:52:22 PM
Do we already have our reading lists?   ???

No idea. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 01, 2008, 07:53:09 PM
The book list is up but they don't know which sections they are in yet.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 01, 2008, 07:54:21 PM
Can you please link to the book list? 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 01, 2008, 07:58:40 PM
Can you please link to the book list? 


It's not complete - they update it every few days.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/Autumn2008Booklist.pdf
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on September 02, 2008, 09:53:31 PM
Which Target should I go to?  It looks like there are a few nearby.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on September 02, 2008, 10:19:32 PM
Which Target should I go to?  It looks like there are a few nearby.

I think most people go with the one on Clark Street, which I think is the right move.  I went to that one a few times before I realized peapod is the greatest thing in the history of the world.

I had to google peapod.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on September 02, 2008, 10:38:42 PM
Which Target should I go to?  It looks like there are a few nearby.

I think most people go with the one on Clark Street, which I think is the right move.  I went to that one a few times before I realized peapod is the greatest thing in the history of the world.

Clark Street in the South Loop is indeed correct.  Nearby you'll find a Dominick's, Whole Foods, Home Depot, Best Buy, Linens and Things, Office Depot, World Market, Sam's Boozery, and some other stores.  Definitely good one-stop-shopping.  If there was a Trader Joe's there, life would be all but perfect.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 03, 2008, 08:48:07 PM
Are any of the Con. Law classes a requirement during 2L?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on September 03, 2008, 09:06:15 PM
Nope. After 1L year, the only required courses are a legal ethics course and a legal skills course (and these are ABA requirements).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on September 04, 2008, 07:21:30 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=104675750739697697598.00044e3957099c263f47c&ll=41.79384,-87.61734&spn=0.457659,0.933838&z=10

This doesn't look encouraging.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 04, 2008, 08:36:20 PM
That's it--I'm transferring!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on September 04, 2008, 09:24:26 PM
I would guess it might serve as a where not to walk to map, but I've never really been anywhere else on the south side except right on campus and the bus tour of Regents.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on September 04, 2008, 09:32:52 PM
The map I'm looking at shows two shootings between 61st and 62nd. That's where I park my car every day.

I bet these were at night though.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 04, 2008, 09:38:21 PM
The map I'm looking at shows two shootings between 61st and 62nd. That's where I park my car every day.

I bet these were at night though.

If you click the pins, it gives a description of the event:

June 6, 11:20 p.m.
Five men were at a yard party at 6144 S. Kimbark Ave. when a shooter opened fire from a vehicle, police said.
Victims conditions range from good to serious.

July 5, 10:54 p.m. A 15-year-old boy was shot in the chest while standing on a street in the 6200 block of South Drexel Avenue. He was taken to Northwestern Memorial Hospital in “stable” condition.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 04, 2008, 09:58:23 PM
I wish I had a car to park.   :(

The first one seems irrelevant to UC students, but the second one is worrying.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on September 04, 2008, 10:10:15 PM
This one scares me: "A woman was shot while in a car traveling in the outbound lanes of the Dan Ryan Expressway.  A crash followed"  Seems so arbitrary.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 06, 2008, 02:57:16 AM
Yep, these are 2008 summer shootings.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 06, 2008, 10:50:03 AM
That's persuasive.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 06, 2008, 01:41:21 PM
Hyde Park doesn't frighten me at all. I feel perfectly safe here. And its quaintness has grown on me quickly. I'm already considering staying put for 2L. Then again, I live on the northern-most part of Hyde Park.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Bathing Jesus on September 06, 2008, 03:41:54 PM
Personally, I don't think "quaint" really cuts it for me when you're in one of the most metropolitan cities in the US, man.  There's so much to do and see in Chicago and 99.9% of it is NOT in Hyde Park.  I mean, next weekend I'm going to 3 concerts (one a two-day free festival) in 4 days from great bands, and I'm not even going to have to walk more than 15 minutes from my apartment for any of it.  That type of thing just doesn't happen in HP.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 06, 2008, 04:43:31 PM
Different strokes for different folks, no doubt.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 09, 2008, 07:02:23 AM
What was up with that weird e-mail combo from Chicago yesterday? What did the "recalled" e-mail mean? I assume it meant she wanted the redundant second copy of her original e-mail withdrawn, but it was pretty confusing...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on September 09, 2008, 03:58:34 PM
Yeah, she meant to recall the duplicate copy only. I hate it when people use that function as though it actually swooped into your email and deleted the email it was intended for.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 09, 2008, 11:11:26 PM
Is Garfield the sole CTA stop in Hyde Park?   :'(  Aw, man. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 10, 2008, 05:40:15 AM
Is Garfield the sole CTA stop in Hyde Park?   :'(  Aw, man. 

I wouldn't really call that "in HP" :(

There's also a green line stop on 63rd I think, but again I wouldn't recommend it. Most people either take the 6 or the 2 bus downtown or alternatively, take the Metra downtown and then transfer to CTA.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 10, 2008, 06:53:03 AM
Yeah, I take the Metra and transfer to the CTA. It's not bad.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: aporia on September 11, 2008, 08:13:46 PM
Yeah, I take the Metra and transfer to the CTA. It's not bad.

Seconded.  The Metra is the unsung hero of the Hyde Park scene.  $2 for an express train downtown is unbeatable, especially given the dismal state of the CTA.  Also, you can drink on the train.  Party time!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 12, 2008, 09:36:37 AM
So, yeah, who else loves it when major casebooks (see: Yeazell's Civ Pro) release a new edition a few months before classes begin? Weeeeeee. LUCKY.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 12, 2008, 12:09:45 PM
Eh.  Couldn't you buy the old one and settle for the oldie but goodie cases?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 12, 2008, 01:20:56 PM
Eh.  Couldn't you buy the old one and settle for the oldie but goodie cases?

It's a possibility. Will you do that? If the professor is listing the latest casebook, I'm inclined to use it.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Visual Dictionary on September 12, 2008, 04:30:25 PM
I might do that.  Worse comes to worse, I heard that Lexis or Westlaw have the cases on them.  We'll see.  I'll talk to a few of the 2Ls.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on September 12, 2008, 05:14:58 PM
I might do that.  Worse comes to worse, I heard that Lexis or Westlaw have the cases on them.  We'll see.  I'll talk to a few of the 2Ls.

The cases on Westlaw and Lexis - and they do have cases, was this a joke? - are long. You mainly read squibs in law school, case excerpts that are just a small fraction of the case. Maybe 10 lines long. Maybe 2-3 pages. Sometimes you read the dissents, sometimes you don't. Most full cases are anywhere between 20 and 200 pages. You need a book, although you don't need to buy one. I heard that libraries have books in them. And that includes casebooks, although not as many copies as are needed for the full class.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on September 12, 2008, 05:20:16 PM
Eh.  Couldn't you buy the old one and settle for the oldie but goodie cases?
It depends on whether or not the law has changed since the last edition. Some casebooks in certain areas of law put out yearly updates since it changes so much. Look at Federal Jurisdiction.

Also, Civ Pro has been making a lot of movement in the electronic discovery stuff. The change was made to the Federal Rules not two years ago. A supplement for that area is necessary, and perhaps a new edition depending on what other changes have been going on.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on September 15, 2008, 02:24:53 PM
Piece of Advice:  if you still can, get the full laptop warranty.  The kind that covers you if you spill coffee on your laptop or drop it down a flight of stairs.  Preferably the kind where they come to your house to fix it.

It is a lot of money (usually), but provides a great peace of mind.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on September 15, 2008, 04:31:47 PM
Yes. Case in point: I just had to buy a new laptop.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 16, 2008, 05:40:35 AM
Yes. Case in point: I just had to buy a new laptop.


You had tons of problems with your ThinkPad didn't you? I'm not in love with mine but I haven't had nearly the issues you had. Was it Vista?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on September 16, 2008, 06:23:52 AM
Yeah, during the year, it was more Vista problems than the ThinkPad itself (although the final problem ended up being hardware). My new computer is XP.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 16, 2008, 08:50:03 AM
Yeah, during the year, it was more Vista problems than the ThinkPad itself (although the final problem ended up being hardware). My new computer is XP.

I've been wanting to put XP on my T61 all summer but haven't been able to find a cheap copy (apparently the ones from the school don't work). Then I was thinking about putting Ubuntu on it, but then I remembered that I was not nearly tech-saavy enough for that.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on September 16, 2008, 04:08:53 PM
I really do like Vista. And my home desktop is going to stay Vista. I just can't afford to deal with the Vista hassles on a computer I need for school. Ah well.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on September 17, 2008, 12:19:25 PM
I just saw on one of my news feeds they are litigating whether you can be sued for posting a link to a pirate stream, Windows is way overpriced though.  If anyone is interested, a couple of us are trying to put together a 1L flag football team and will be meeting out in Washington Park for "practice" at 3 today.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on September 17, 2008, 02:15:46 PM
Speaking of exercise, does anyone know if it's possible to audit (or whatever you'd call it) one of those physical education classes (http://athletics.uchicago.edu/physed/physed-fall2008.htm) the undergrads have to take? (Twice-a-week badminton? Yeah!) I'm trying to find yoga/pilates/etc options in Hyde Park, and private classes are insanely expensive (I just can't afford to pay 60% more (http://www.3pillars.org/schedule.html#prices) than I classes were costing me in Seattle). There are also $5 drop-in classes run by an on-campus yoga group (http://yoga.uchicago.edu/) and the Ratner Center (http://athletics.uchicago.edu/fitchicago/fitchicago-fall2008.htm), but they don't meet very often. It's a long shot, I guess, but why can't law students be physically educated?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on September 17, 2008, 04:06:39 PM
Yeah, during the year, it was more Vista problems than the ThinkPad itself (although the final problem ended up being hardware). My new computer is XP.

I've been wanting to put XP on my T61 all summer but haven't been able to find a cheap copy (apparently the ones from the school don't work). Then I was thinking about putting Ubuntu on it, but then I remembered that I was not nearly tech-saavy enough for that.

Check out this one. It's a pretty good deal.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3811122/Windows_XP_Professional_Service_Pack_2

I really hope you're not advocating piracy.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: fredsslacks on September 19, 2008, 06:20:57 PM
The Ratner yoga is pretty good. Michelle is a great instructor. It is actually $4 if you buy a $40 10 class card. David Leslie is a great pilates instructor and I love his muscle toning class. I worked out five days a week last year at Ratner and was able to stay fit.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on September 23, 2008, 05:39:15 PM
is bernstein seriously teaching 1L contracts again? her class was the most uncomfortably awkward i've ever taken.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 28, 2008, 11:05:47 AM
The BLSA outlines cover CivPro, but I don't see Torts, Elements, and Property.  I'm reading through the CivPro ones right now and I think they're a great study guide; I can zero in on important elements instead of being derailed by details.  Does anyone know, or can anyone send me, where I can find outlines for my other three classes?  I have Gersen, Strauss, and Strahilevitz.

Thanks!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on September 28, 2008, 12:47:05 PM
The BLSA outlines cover CivPro, but I don't see Torts, Elements, and Property.  I'm reading through the CivPro ones right now and I think they're a great study guide; I can zero in on important elements instead of being derailed by details.  Does anyone know, or can anyone send me, where I can find outlines for my other three classes?  I have Gersen, Strauss, and Strahilevitz.

Thanks!

I'm letting the person who does the BLSA outlines know that the list is screwy.

However, let me say one thing - there is something to be said for getting derailed by details, especially in the beginning.  I know it is a pain, but learning for yourself what is and is not important is crucial.  Don't deny yourself the chance to figure that out for yourself by relying on outlines because it will bite you in the ass later.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 28, 2008, 02:15:34 PM
 :-[

So I should be looking at the procedural history in great detail?

I've been extracting the rule of law and identifying the issue, but a few of my NG friends are going into the reasoning like crazy, and I don't know whether I should follow their lead.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 28, 2008, 02:38:13 PM
My neighbor made a three page Greene brief.  I think that's somewhat over-the-top, as he admitted as well.  And everyone is making me nervous today with their coffee and elaborate preparation; one guy has been studying for hours at this point.  I just read the cases once and I'll play it by ear.

When will we learn to mimic judicial reasoning?  Does it click at some point?  Most of the Torts reasoning seems completely off-the-wall.  I can't understand why the court rules that one thing happens to be battery and another thing is not battery, unless there's an element (intention, transfer intent) that seems to jive with the fact pattern.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on September 28, 2008, 02:50:18 PM
FIRST:  NEVER COMPARE YOURSELF TO YOUR CLASSMATES.  Worst idea ever.  They'll do it their way, you'll do it your way, you'll both figure out what works for you.  You never feel good about the way you're going about things if you compare yourself to others.  It also inevitably ends to a bunch of trying to prove you're working harder/slacking off more than the person you're talking to.*

I don't think you want to look at the reasoning "like crazy," but you do want to examine how and why the judges got to the point they did.  You don't need a three page brief.  Mine was less than a page, and only because I spent so much time on the facts.

You're doing Greene v Lindsay with Buss?  Looking back at my notes, class ended with the questions:     
   • What is the rule?
   • If I were the legislator in KY, what would I devise?
   • If I'm the judge, what is required?

Those might be good starting places to think about things.

As for the bigger question...you just kind of go by feel.  It doesn't make sense at first.  They don't really expect it to make sense at first (otherwise we would all just read the books and take a test and get rid of law school entirely).  Don't expect that you will read your assignment and and have it all magically come together.  Besides, sometimes you do read cases and think you totally get it and it turns out you have no effing clue.

But it will start to come together in a way that makes sense at some point.  Don't worry if things seem to be gelling for you at a different pace than your classmates, or at a different pace for each class.  You WILL get it.  Relax!

*The exception is if time goes on and you think you're not getting what you need to be getting out of your reading.  But I would probably go talk to an academic counselor about better strategies as opposed to your classmates.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 28, 2008, 03:01:16 PM
I can't understand why the court rules that one thing happens to be battery and another thing is not battery, unless there's an element (intention, transfer intent) that seems to jive with the fact pattern.

Do you have Dixon or Strauss for Elements? I ask, because Dixon's first assignment has a great piece by Cardozo ("The Nature of the Judicial Process") that tries to explain the evolution of law. Gimme a sec, gotta look at the packet...

Laws and legal interpretation are informed by principle. But what is principle? Cardozo lists four categories of principle: method of philosophy (i.e., logic or analogy), method of evolution (i.e., historical development), method of tradition (i.e., customs of the community), and method of sociology (i.e., justice, morals, and social welfare).

To answer your question more directly, the discrepancy between judicial interpretation of similar cases could be logically/analogically glaring. However, perhaps the discrepancy exists due to changing historical development (e.g., the role of technology in 1830 England compared to 1930 America), or due to a shift in morals. At its core, logical consistency represents only one guiding principle for judicial interpretation.

Still, Cardozo appreciates legal consistency, what he calls "symmetrical development." But he qualifies that appreciation by stating "symmetrical development may be bought at too high a price." This squares nicely with another statement he made: "The final cause of law is the welfare of society." Bringing this all together, it would be fair to say that inconsistent judicial interpretation is inevitable when judicial consistency would jeopardize the social welfare in any given period. What is social welfare? That would at least be partially informed by Cardozo's method of sociology. And doesn't society's ideas of justice, morality, etc. change over time? Therefore, judicial interpretation must also change, if Cardozo is right.

The culmination of the previous points, I feel, is encapsulated by Cardozo's statement that the "difference from age to age is not so much in the recognition of the need that law shall conform itself to an end. It is rather the nature of the end to which there has been need to conform." I believe Cardozo is attempting to explain the reasoning behind law's existence, and that this existence is inextricably linked to law's interpretation. Law is there to serve shifting ends, and shifting ends necessarily require shifting interpretations--even in similar cases.

Hope that helps. Might not. It's just my attempt to answer the  question you posed, a question which I have recently asked myself.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on September 28, 2008, 03:24:54 PM
Spending hours studying for the first class? Just read the material once, make a few notes of what you think is important, and then marvel at how wrong you are about what was important. Law school isn't that difficult--it's just a lot of studying come finals. Don't worry at all about day-to-day readings, so long as you have some idea what is going on in class.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 28, 2008, 03:30:35 PM
Thanks, everyone.  I'm pretty excited for tomorrow.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 28, 2008, 04:44:21 PM
Besides BSLA, is there any other outline resource?  I know that you discourage their use, but I studied using outlines in undergraduate (I outlined most lecture courses by topic, using the syllabus), and I think that they help me learn.

Good luck in school tomorrow.   :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on September 28, 2008, 04:54:32 PM
I can't understand why the court rules that one thing happens to be battery and another thing is not battery, unless there's an element (intention, transfer intent) that seems to jive with the fact pattern.

Still, Cardozo appreciates legal consistency, what he calls "symmetrical development." But he qualifies that appreciation by stating "symmetrical development may be bought at too high a price." This squares nicely with another statement he made: "The final cause of law is the welfare of society." Bringing this all together, it would be fair to say that inconsistent judicial interpretation is inevitable when judicial consistency would jeopardize the social welfare in any given period. What is social welfare? That would at least be partially informed by Cardozo's method of sociology. And doesn't society's ideas of justice, morality, etc. change over time? Therefore, judicial interpretation must also change, if Cardozo is right.


Ah, "let's be consistent as long as it's fair." That sounds like solid legal reasoning. Of course, I hate Cardozo, so maybe I'm biased. His lies in Palsgraf are disturbing at best. He is overturning the law, he should come out and say it.

As to the question about how well to prepare - read your stuff twice, be sure you can explain the case in your own words. Don't worry if the reasoning is off the wall - the great majority of judges aren't very good. Also, judges often lie to get a case to their preferred outcome (see Palsgraf). Sometimes the judges just don't understand the law themselves. Especially in these first few weeks, you'll see lots of cases where the reasoning is just plain shoddy. The professors will explain to you why it is so shoddy in class via Socratic.

Also, you may want to look to see if the cases are from different years or districts. The common law evolves over time, and battery in 1700 could be quite different than battery today (FYI, it's not really that different). Also, the common law in California is different than it is in Texas.

A brief longer than half a page is probably too long. I think the most important things to put down are the case name, year, court, page number of your book, 2 lines for facts, 1 line for holding, and 3-4 lines for reasoning/rule of law/issue. These can't always be sorted out.

Your first few cases are going to be harder, take longer, and result in longer briefs. This is because you don't know anything. Looking back at my first day 1L notes, I have lots of definitions. I really wrestled with the reasoning. This was not a mistake, but it's not something you need to be doing after a few weeks. There's no reason to have "ex contractu" and "ex delicto" defined in your notes, other than the possibility of getting asked this by your professor.

Hope that helps, and don't stress out.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on September 28, 2008, 04:56:41 PM
Besides BSLA, is there any other outline resource?  I know that you discourage their use, but I studied using outlines in undergraduate (I outlined most lecture courses by topic, using the syllabus), and I think that they help me learn.

Good luck in school tomorrow.   :P
BLSA is it. You can ask your 2L and 3L friends as well.

I've found that outlines from other schools on the same topics aren't very helpful overall, but useful for pulling a case brief in a pinch.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 28, 2008, 07:00:40 PM
Spending hours studying for the first class? Just read the material once, make a few notes of what you think is important, and then marvel at how wrong you are about what was important. Law school isn't that difficult--it's just a lot of studying come finals. Don't worry at all about day-to-day readings, so long as you have some idea what is going on in class.

best piece of advice so far

So does anyone know the deal with the internet at the law school?  Still gonna be blocked in the classrooms?


Being at 2L rocks. School starts in 12 hours and I'm just now starting to look at the reading. Don't stress 1Ls, it'll be fine.

I don't know about the Internet, but I am surprised that we never heard any more about it since did we fill out a survey in the spring?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on September 28, 2008, 07:25:29 PM
I kind of feel like an idiot for not knowing, but how do we find the BLSA outlines, ect.?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on September 28, 2008, 07:40:01 PM
I kind of feel like an idiot for not knowing, but how do we find the BLSA outlines, ect.?

http://blsa.uchicago.edu/disclaimer.html

i wouldn't look at them until a few weeks in unless you're not briefing cases and just need a handy guide to remember cases. it will start making more sense, especially in torts where you have a read a bunch of cases to get a sense about the actual legal procedure.

and i echo this not freaking out sentiment. most 1Ls professors are extremely nice and as long as you've read the case (or even have some general-ish idea what it's about), socratic isn't bad.

i think the internet ban is still up but i'm not sure  :-\
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 28, 2008, 07:48:47 PM
I kind of feel like an idiot for not knowing, but how do we find the BLSA outlines, ect.?

http://blsa.uchicago.edu/disclaimer.html

i wouldn't look at them until a few weeks in unless you're not briefing cases and just need a handy guide to remember cases. it will start making more sense, especially in torts where you have a read a bunch of cases to get a sense about the actual legal procedure.

and i echo this not freaking out sentiment. most 1Ls professors are extremely nice and as long as you've read the case (or even have some general-ish idea what it's about), socratic isn't bad.


Yeah, I didn't find the profs to be mean until the END of the year when people completely stopped reading so as to study for finals (e.g. Mitchell's Civ Pro last year).
i think the internet ban is still up but i'm not sure  :-\
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on September 28, 2008, 08:16:27 PM
Anyone who doesn't do all their reading on the 172 is a gunner in my book

What if I don't do reading at all, but I ask whoever sits next to me on the 172 what the cases were about?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 28, 2008, 08:27:02 PM


Being at 2L rocks. School starts in 12 hours and I'm just now starting to look at the reading.

Anyone who doesn't do all their reading on the 172 is a gunner in my book
[/quote]

Anyone who takes the 172 is a gunner IMO. Walking and getting there late is the new cool.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 28, 2008, 08:30:33 PM
I don't think that any of the 1Ls are stressed per se.  It's a mixture of anticipation and nervousness, if anything.

Anyway, I'll probably ask about outlines a little later, but any of them would be appreciated.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on September 28, 2008, 08:41:50 PM
Walking and getting there late is the new cool.

Ah, I have so much to learn.  I've never been late to class, but I'm only going to Monday classes the next 2 weeks....prestigious?

Pretty prestigious. If we were on XO right now I'd say 171.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on September 28, 2008, 08:44:10 PM
blsa is password protected and i never received any lawannounce. :[
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 29, 2008, 07:21:07 AM
blsa is password protected and i never received any lawannounce. :[

They sent it last night, so, if you don't see it, I would contact BLSA directly or talk to someone who knows the password.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on September 29, 2008, 03:21:02 PM
i have a question that perhaps no one has an answer to. is wallace stevens here at chicago or did he finally get into harvard/a more prestigious school? i've sort of been looking for someone in the law school today who looks like he would be wallace stevens (though i don't know what he looks like). i imagine glasses and a very purposeful walk. but i did see sillyberry and anonymous so my day wasn't a total LSD washout.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 29, 2008, 05:31:04 PM
Today's WSJ makes me a sad panda.   :-[  I hope this doesn't affect next year's recruiting too badly.  I wish I had Baird so I could say, at least, that I want to practice bankruptcy or something.

Does anyone have any reassuring words to cheer everyone up?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on September 29, 2008, 09:20:11 PM
Today's WSJ makes me a sad panda.   :-[  I hope this doesn't affect next year's recruiting too badly.  I wish I had Baird so I could say, at least, that I want to practice bankruptcy or something.

Does anyone have any reassuring words to cheer everyone up?

i haven't heard any 2Ls having oci problems or 3Ls getting no offered and being thrown out on the street (i think foley chicago was weird this summer but everyone i know ended up getting a job there or at their 1L firm), even in this economy. it's way too early for 1Ls to start freaking out about 2L summer jobs or permanent employment. you will get a firm job 2L summer if you want one, regardless of grades, unless you bid on only 10 d.c. super-prestigious firms with a 170 average or something. your exams this quarter are easy (only two and only one quarter's worth of credit, unlike some of your winter or spring exams). plus, as strauss always says in his elements class, no one cares about your elements grade. so go to bar review and coffee mess this week, meet us slacker 3Ls (and maybe some of the 2Ls here...some of them seem slacker-ish ;D), and enjoy the quarter until about a week before finals, when you start cramming.  <--effective study plan.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 29, 2008, 11:35:12 PM
Thanks, Bosco and Claire.  That did cheer me up.

Two other questions:

When's the first bar review and where is it?  A 3L told me they generally hold them up North, which makes sense because I visited Jimmy's and Ida Noyes are they're both meh.

Will we ever get a formal list of clubs?  How do you know when and where to join?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on September 29, 2008, 11:49:08 PM
Not sure if the first bar review is this Thursday or not (I'm out of town anyway), but yeah, they're almost always held up north.

As to your other question, this Friday during wine mess there is an 'activities fair' where organizations will give information about their group and how to join.

PS: Tomorrow and Wednesday we're having super-cool FedSoc lunch events. Go to them.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 30, 2008, 04:10:13 PM
I kind of need to vent, so if anyone wants to comment on my situation, it would be helpful.  I'm sure you guys went through this phase.

Two days and a weekend into classes, most of my floormates are studying for hours.  I feel like a slacker when it's 7 PM and they tell me they still have a few more hours of work, while I haven't done anything since Elements.  Last night, someone told me that they can't keep working at this challenging pace.  I was like, "Wait, what?  Oh, yeah.  This pace."  Then I went to sleep.

Moreover, I haven't briefed at all.  I've merely read/skimmed the cases, and I have absurd amounts of free time on my hands.  I didn't do anything on Sunday but watch football.  I've spent the last two hours napping, and I plan to watch the game.  When I talk to my floormates, they vividly remember the case details and can talk about them as well as I can talk about my family.  All I know is maybe the holding and the general gist.  It's . . . intimidating.

In class, I can follow the flow of the conversation, but I don't feel like I have command of it.

I mean, is this fine?  I'm taking Bosco's word that they're overdoing it, but it's still unnerving.  Ride it out?  Work a little harder?  Am I doing something wrong when I can read Pierson vs. Post in twenty minutes, jot down a few notes in the margins, and then have hours of free time?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on September 30, 2008, 04:20:22 PM
Quote from: sillyberry
FIRST:  NEVER COMPARE YOURSELF TO YOUR CLASSMATES.

I think this advice has worked for me so far. Might want to give it a try.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: pig floyd on September 30, 2008, 04:22:28 PM
I mean, is this fine?  I'm taking Bosco's word that they're overdoing it, but it's still unnerving.  Ride it out?  Work a little harder?  Am I doing something wrong when I can read Pierson vs. Post in twenty minutes, jot down a few notes in the margins, and then have hours of free time?

Sounds like you're doing it right.  At least, that's how I did it.

More important than knowing every tiny detail is thinking a bit while not reading.  Why did you just read that case?  What were you supposed to get out of it?  How does it fit into the larger scheme of whatever topic you're discussing?  You might not be able to answer those questions right away after reading, but you can at least think about it a bit and fill in any blanks during class.

Disclaimer:  your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on September 30, 2008, 04:51:15 PM
at this point i don't even know what you'd be studying for hours every day. you're basically wasting your time at this point if you're spending four hours memorizing cases or reading hornbooks. i probably did an hour, 1.5 hours reading every day (and actually i probably still do it that way). re-reading or taking ridiculously copious notes will get you bogged down in unnecessary detail, may lead to burnout, and will probably hurt your final grade.

at this point, you just want to get an idea for what answers professors will be looking for. it's not the even the middle of the first week; i have no clue what half my classes are about. i probably won't even crack an outline or hornbook until thanksgiving at the earliest. i think this is typical for people in their 2L or 3L years (and probably many 1Ls by 2nd or 3rd quarter), unless they're shooting for clerkships or want to be an academia superstar or something.

the people who are whining about their studying hours are probably insecure and want to either a) intimidate you into not performing well or b) are trying to feel better about themselves when you go "OMG YOU ARE SO PREPARED AND IMPRESSIVE". it's annoying, but many of them calm down after 1st quarter, either because they realize that the exams were much easier than expected or because they did really poorly and realize that their studying was pointless.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on September 30, 2008, 07:10:33 PM
I read for less than an hour yesterday and *maybe* two hours today, so you're not the only one.  But you're right, everyone seems to be spending A LOT of time reading.  I think part of it is that people have different levels of anxiety in terms of how prepared they are to get called on in class and wanting to understand what's going on.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on September 30, 2008, 07:45:56 PM
It's also possible the people you're talking to have Dixon for Elements and you don't. I know a lot of us felt like we underprepared for that class--she assigned a bunch of cases and implied we didn't need to know their details, when we most assuredly did. I was intimidated enough to go back and brief all those cases individually, and to do a much more thorough job with Gersen's Torts reading, which is structured similarly (giving you a bunch of short cases and asking you to distinguish between them). My other professors assigned less reading, and then in class were much more chill and/or prone to asking abstract policy questions. Not so scary.

That said, listen to the 2&3Ls. They are wiser than I.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on September 30, 2008, 08:18:51 PM
I don't have Dixon, but I heard about her socratic from other students.  I couldn't really understand their panic.  Yeah, she called on many people, but it doesn't affect your grade, and everyone is in the same boat as you if she calls on over half the class.

I have Gersen tomorrow, too, and I mostly read/skimmed the cases.  I think the point is that battery has two elements, contact and intent, and that you can transfer intent (see: that classroom case), but we'll see tomorrow.  I'm waiting for class to draw out the big picture.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on September 30, 2008, 08:37:27 PM
i really liked gersen. he's very focused on black letter law in exams, so as long as you have the elements of a tort and know several cases (and what distinguishes them from each other), you should be set. i think most professors don't care how you answer their questions, as long as you appear to have read the cases at all.

the only bad thing about gersen is that he tends to be sarcastic. so even if you're actually doing a good job answering the questions, he may sigh at you, seem frustrated, or take your points to extremes. it's just his style and most people get used to it after the first class or so....he does it with everyone so it's nothing personal and his ridonkulous hypotheticals are funny. he also has amazing ties. strahilevitz quit wearing his awesome ties (and they were even more multi-colored/polka-dotted/striped than gersen's) ever since the fashion court debacle my 1L year  :'(
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on September 30, 2008, 10:42:58 PM
Damn Regent's basic cable, you'd think one of the Chicago networks/Telemundo would have the Sox game on, and Gamecast didn't really cut it..

My 2 cents as another 1L, if your having trouble following all of the stuff in class, you might wanna do a little bit a case briefing.  I spent my last two years of undergrad only reading the stuff that I was interested in/absolutely had to, and making little sentence fragment sketches for the cases saved my ass when I zoned out and got cold called today.  Also, I know my attention span and when it comes to studying/making outlines and all of that much later this year, I'm not gonna remember most of this stuff, so I'm planning on just looking at the little sketch brief's instead of wading back through the actual casebooks.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: pig floyd on September 30, 2008, 10:44:52 PM
...I'm not gonna remember most of this stuff, so I'm planning on just looking at the little sketch brief's instead of wading back through the actual casebooks.

I made those in class.

If I got called on, oh well.  WYSIWYG.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on October 01, 2008, 07:12:57 AM
I think Chicago1L lives in NG, not Regents.  Haven't seen or heard anything like that around here.  =p
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 01, 2008, 07:56:48 AM
What's the point of relying on a "sketch brief"?  Most of these cases can be summarized by the holding.  You don't need procedural history, parties, and all that other stuff for the exam.  Also, the reasoning can be important, but, often, these cases are poorly reasoned.  Vosburg v. Putney makes no sense.  "Unlawful conduct" isn't really within the ballpark of other intentional torts.

Am I correct, 2Ls?  Every upperclass person I've talked to said that briefing wasn't that important, or even that it's a "huge waste of time."

That said, if it helps you, go for it.  I guess I'm somewhat anti-briefing for now, but who knows?  I may go back to a few of these cases and brief a bit later on.  Worse comes to worse, I have all of Thanksgiving to study.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 01, 2008, 08:08:33 AM
i actually briefed all my 1L cases. looking back, it was probably a waste of time (i think i had like 200 cases for torts). that being said, it's not that time-consuming if you just write a sentence or two about the case and identify what tort/civ pro rule it's associated with. it may have helped me stop briefing later since i sort of mentally made one sentence notes about cases in the same style. in my formal briefs, i also identified the state the case was from, but that was totally unnecessary on the exam.

from my perspective now, i would probably just use my class notes on the case. the things you discuss in class are the things that will probably come up on the exam, and when i briefed ahead of time, i sometimes focused on issues that ended up not being relevant to our class discussion.

that all being said, i don't think briefing is a waste of time, especially your first quarter. it doesn't take that long if your briefs are really short, and it may help you sort of the different parts of a legal opinion. but if you feel like you're following class discussion fine without it, then it's definitely not necessary.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on October 02, 2008, 12:26:17 AM
What's the point of relying on a "sketch brief"?  Most of these cases can be summarized by the holding.  You don't need procedural history, parties, and all that other stuff for the exam.  Also, the reasoning can be important, but, often, these cases are poorly reasoned.  Vosburg v. Putney makes no sense.  "Unlawful conduct" isn't really within the ballpark of other intentional torts.

Am I correct, 2Ls?  Every upperclass person I've talked to said that briefing wasn't that important, or even that it's a "huge waste of time."

That said, if it helps you, go for it.  I guess I'm somewhat anti-briefing for now, but who knows?  I may go back to a few of these cases and brief a bit later on.  Worse comes to worse, I have all of Thanksgiving to study.

The reason you need it is because professors ask for it in Socratic.

Also, while it may not be "the law", friendly fact patterns often decide cases before the law can be explained. For black-letter, holding matters. For life, the rest might matter as well. Judges often ask about fact patterns, jurisdictions, and other trivia from cited cases. Just get used to it. Practice doing this your first year, and don't worry about it again until moot court.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on October 02, 2008, 05:15:26 AM
I also wanted to recommend that you pay attention to the procedural posture of the cases in Civ Pro. I found, more so than in the other classes, knowing where in the litigation process this case was at could make a difference in how you understood it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 08:27:15 AM
Our socratic actually seems very lawerly and not at all focused on details.  Many of my classmates have complained about how their briefs don't line up with, say, a "it takes two" Torts analysis or the delightfully rambling structure of Elements.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 08:27:38 AM
I also wanted to recommend that you pay attention to the procedural posture of the cases in Civ Pro. I found, more so than in the other classes, knowing where in the litigation process this case was at could make a difference in how you understood it.

Good advice.  Thanks.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 12:11:16 PM
Off-topic, I wish they would stop serving pizza at the lunch talks.  I just ate the worst slice of pizza in recent memory.  Wow.  I think I'm going to go to the business school to wash that taste out of my mouth.

Also, I do exactly what Bosco does -- lots of little notes and fairly active reading -- and I haven't had any trouble with class discussion, but we're four days into classes, so I probably don't have much credibility for that assertion.  I also think that some people need briefing for active reading, whereas I, as a former English/Philosophy guy, generally fall into it by default.*

* Or not.  Not sure here.  I could be way off.  But some guy in my dorm was like, "This is the first time I've had to read without turning on the TV."
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on October 02, 2008, 02:41:15 PM
Off-topic, I wish they would stop serving pizza at the lunch talks.  I just ate the worst slice of pizza in recent memory.  Wow.  I think I'm going to go to the business school to wash that taste out of my mouth.

Also, I do exactly what Bosco does -- lots of little notes and fairly active reading -- and I haven't had any trouble with class discussion, but we're four days into classes, so I probably don't have much credibility for that assertion.  I also think that some people need briefing for active reading, whereas I, as a former English/Philosophy guy, generally fall into it by default.*

* Or not.  Not sure here.  I could be way off.  But some guy in my dorm was like, "This is the first time I've had to read without turning on the TV."


Pizza's not really that bad. I prefer it over some of the Thai food we often have. That pizza today didn't look so tasty though (I saw the guy pulling it out of a bag full of condensation and was a little scared).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 02, 2008, 02:47:45 PM
Off-topic, I wish they would stop serving pizza at the lunch talks.  I just ate the worst slice of pizza in recent memory.  Wow.  I think I'm going to go to the business school to wash that taste out of my mouth.

Also, I do exactly what Bosco does -- lots of little notes and fairly active reading -- and I haven't had any trouble with class discussion, but we're four days into classes, so I probably don't have much credibility for that assertion.  I also think that some people need briefing for active reading, whereas I, as a former English/Philosophy guy, generally fall into it by default.*

* Or not.  Not sure here.  I could be way off.  But some guy in my dorm was like, "This is the first time I've had to read without turning on the TV."

the problem is that many student organizations have a set budget and can only afford pizza sometimes  :'(. i know the musical last year had to cut down from our 1st potbelly's feast because the sponsoring law firm wouldn't pony up more dough even for an extra page of advertising. the best lunches are when law firms sponsor a lunch....the food is usually more interesting (i know mofo sponsored ribs with mofo bibs my 1L year...COME BACK, MOFO!!!).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 02:57:20 PM
The MoFo mints were also exquisite.  My friends made fun of me for carrying those around and trolling for them, but whatever.  They were better than most small breath mints.

I think I'm going to sit out the first Bar Review because nobody I know is going, but we'll see how that develops.  The VP debate is another lulz-worthy Thursday night event.

buffettologie: you were right.  It was terrible, terrible pizza.  I bit into what looked like a cheese pizza and found old, dry pepperoni underneath.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 03:08:42 PM
Several hours of Vosburg v. Putney and I still couldn't tell you the BLL elements for battery.  Intention to cause a harmful or offensive contact, right?  (Plus eggshell rule, and actual damages instead of average damages for deterrance reasons?)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 02, 2008, 03:48:12 PM
I actually like pizza Capri, but I wasn't there today. In either event, we'll be experimenting with different pizza places over the next couple weeks before making a final decision on what we are likely to stick with. I take it the huddled masses (1Ls) aren't big fans of Pizza Capri?

 Also, another reason for the pizza is that groups that get highly attended events (e.g. Fedsoc) need a food that people can grab quickly and then sit down. Its hard to have 100 people grab food from Cedars and still get the event started on time.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 04:31:16 PM
I actually like pizza Capri, but I wasn't there today. In either event, we'll be experimenting with different pizza places over the next couple weeks before making a final decision on what we are likely to stick with. I take it the huddled masses (1Ls) aren't big fans of Pizza Capri?
Also, another reason for the pizza is that groups that get highly attended events (e.g. Fedsoc) need a food that people can grab quickly and then sit down. Its hard to have 100 people grab food from Cedars and still get the event started on time.

I know a few others didn't like it, but today could be unusual for them.  Maybe their pizza is usually excellent.

The italic thing is credited, I'm sure.  But if I had to get anything, it would be a boxed lunch.  I think they're fairly decent as far as lunch food goes.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 04:44:22 PM

I think I'm going to sit out the first Bar Review because nobody I know is going, but we'll see how that develops.  The VP debate is another lulz-worthy Thursday night event.


I highly recommend going to bar review.

I have a morning class and I have no idea how I'm going to get up there.  I'm surprised that bar review isn't on Friday; that would be easier.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 02, 2008, 05:26:45 PM
That's because you should be going out with friends on Friday anyway. Bar Review is supplementary to that (I say that as someone who actually didn't go to many bar reviews; I was too young first quarter, and missed many after being Burke-hung-over during others).

As for Pizza Capri, I think a lot of people dislike their regular pizzas, but their specialty pizzas are good. I recommend the BBQ blast and the Shroom pizza.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 02, 2008, 05:28:02 PM
And, for the record, even if I was in Chicago, I wouldn't go to bar review this week. Palin-Biden!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 02, 2008, 05:33:16 PM

I think I'm going to sit out the first Bar Review because nobody I know is going, but we'll see how that develops.  The VP debate is another lulz-worthy Thursday night event.


I highly recommend going to bar review.

I have a morning class and I have no idea how I'm going to get up there.  I'm surprised that bar review isn't on Friday; that would be easier.

CAB IT. i actually am cabbing it from hyde park so i am happy to share a cab with you if you want to split around 10 pm or so. i have a morning class too. profs take it easy on friday morning classes.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on October 02, 2008, 05:59:28 PM
That's because you should be going out with friends on Friday anyway. Bar Review is supplementary to that (I say that as someone who actually didn't go to many bar reviews; I was too young first quarter, and missed many after being Burke-hung-over during others).

As for Pizza Capri, I think a lot of people dislike their regular pizzas, but their specialty pizzas are good. I recommend the BBQ blast and the Shroom pizza.


PC normally isn't too bad, but they were all wrapped in plastic bags and developed that condensation feeling almost instantly.

Pre is right about food though, there were definitely lunches last year that didn't start until 12:35 or 12:40 because it took so long to get food. And from what I understand, box lunches are very expensive.

I personally vote for Giordano's but I have no idea how they compare to PC/Domino's in terms of pricing. I know they're normally more expensive but I wasn't sure if you get some sort of discount.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 09:21:37 PM
The debate was pretty bad, and I wasn't in a social mood.  Not a great night.  Next week, I'm definitely going to go to Bar Review.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 02, 2008, 09:23:03 PM
i'm waiting for a cab. i may actually miss class tomorrow though. i'm a 3L  ;D

and my high school friend is flying and joining around 1 am so i have (yet another reason) to be social.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 09:24:55 PM
1Ls are so on the ball.  One girl made a three page brief for Vosburg vs. Putney.  I'm not even sure that the actual case is that long.

That's certainly a reason to be social.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 02, 2008, 09:44:02 PM
One girl made a three page brief for Vosburg vs. Putney. 

That should prove helpful. Not.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 02, 2008, 10:45:06 PM
Lulz at the Chicago teams

I can accept 5-1, or some smaller margin, but it's like 10-1 right now, and they suck.  To think that I bought all of those Fukodome shirts for nothing.  For nothing!  >:(

 :'(
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 03, 2008, 12:56:40 PM
Bar review (minus the cubs) was pretty great.  Cabbing wasn't that bad, but I really need to make friends with some teetotalers with cars.  Also, I forgot how much PBR tastes like a kick in the teeth.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 04, 2008, 08:46:33 AM
Is there anything specific that I should be getting out of Elements?  The discursive nature of the class frustrates me, and most of the BLSA outlines go over the cases, but don't explain the "big picture."  I have Strauss, if that matters.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Somewhere on October 04, 2008, 09:53:43 AM
Is there anything specific that I should be getting out of Elements?  The discursive nature of the class frustrates me, and most of the BLSA outlines go over the cases, but don't explain the "big picture."  I have Strauss, if that matters.

The cases don't matter.  Just enjoy the class.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 04, 2008, 11:23:24 AM
Is there anything specific that I should be getting out of Elements?  The discursive nature of the class frustrates me, and most of the BLSA outlines go over the cases, but don't explain the "big picture."  I have Strauss, if that matters.

The cases don't matter.  Just enjoy the class.

Could you please elaborate on why they don't matter?  Most of my classmates are briefing them, too.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Somewhere on October 04, 2008, 12:46:28 PM
The cases matter in the sense that you need to understand what is going on in them.  It is not a Torts class, though.  You won't need to cite the cases in your exam, or use them later on. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 04, 2008, 01:25:02 PM
The cases matter in the sense that you need to understand what is going on in them.  It is not a Torts class, though.  You won't need to cite the cases in your exam, or use them later on. 

really? i'm pretty sure some of the big ones came up. more in the sense of an example of a judicial philosophy or coase theorem or something, but i don't think you can totally ignore them in strauss' elements class.

that being said, i agree that taking detailed notes on each case is not as important as for tort or civ pro, or basically any other 1L class.

don't worry about elements for now. strauss does a pretty good of tying everything up in the end, so take a look at the practice exams sometime in november when you've covered more material.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on October 04, 2008, 02:06:06 PM
For Elements with Strauss (which I loved), I found that you wanted to have an idea of the cases (or reading in general) so you could see where class was going and answer when called on.  But the cases illustrate a point (whether the precedence and the progression of a legal doctrine or statutory interpretation or whatever) and aren't ultimately used as "cases."

Meaning, the exam last year had NOTHING to do with cases.  You can look at them online and see the questions.  In my answers, I did not cite a single case.  I can't even remember whether I cited any of the reading.

The checklists are the way to go for the exam.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 04, 2008, 02:58:49 PM
Sweet.  Guess I'll take your advice and avoid worrying about that class.  CivPro, however, is a different game, and I hope Thanksgiving gives me ample time to outline and take practice exams.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 04, 2008, 04:35:30 PM
Oh, man.  I left out 12 oatmeal packets for an hour, and, when I returned, there were only 5 left.    :-[
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 04, 2008, 04:48:46 PM
Communism in a nutshell.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: pig floyd on October 04, 2008, 05:27:41 PM
Oh, man.  I left out 12 oatmeal packets for an hour, and, when I returned, there were only 5 left.    :-[

Better write a nasty email about it so you can get on ATL.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 08:53:18 AM
I don't really have any work today.  What a strange day.  I thought about trying to outline CivPro, but I don't know where that class is going, and I suspect that the CL/equity stuff won't be on the exam (not explicitly, at least).  And Rule 4 will be in my final outline, anyway.  And let's not forget about Thanksgiving.

How is everyone else? 

ETA: the 2010 thread still puts us to shame, though it's early.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 05, 2008, 01:05:44 PM
I don't know what the wise upperclassmen think, but it seems a little early to start outlining this weekend to me.  I could see how in a couple of weeks it would be nice to sit down and take a look at this stuff from a distance and put it in order, but as long as you take good notes i don't see any reason to start yet.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 01:22:53 PM
Thanks for the advice.  I decided to take the day off.  Also, my notes are fine.  I transcribe three or four big ideas (or discussions) from each class onto a notebook.

Giants >>> your team.  And Bosco: it looks like the Bills will win your division, but I admit it's a little early.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Reaching on October 05, 2008, 02:14:55 PM
Speaking of football, anyone watching this Colts game?  This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

I agree. Last 5 mins was just wild.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 02:40:20 PM
I thought the 31-27 thing was a typo.  I stopped watching at 27-10 for the Texans.

I went for a long run on Lakeshore.  That was an awesome way to spend my Sunday afternoon.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 05, 2008, 03:36:26 PM
Damn Lions... If nothing else, growing up in Michigan teaches you how to deal well with perpetual disappointment.  Also, apparently Kyle Orton drives a Prius...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 03:48:43 PM
If nothing else, growing up in Michigan teaches you how to deal well with perpetual disappointment.

My friend, growing up in Michigan should teach you to have no expectations about Michigan. Thus every Lion's victory--however rare--becomes a splendid surprise, a pleasant passing and every Lion's loss--however common--becomes an assumed state of affairs.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 04:05:28 PM
The Pistons are arguably the best team in the Eastern Conference and the Lions had Super Bowl appearances with Barry Sanders in the 90s.  Moreover, Michigan and Michigan State are college football and occasionally NCAA basketball powerhouses.

Now Cleveland, on the other hand, is a city that elicits low expectations.  10-6 and no playoff berth?  That's far more disappointing.

Finally, if you're growing up in Michigan, then underachieving sports teams should probably be the least of your worries.   :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 04:24:33 PM
WTF is Hickeringill's problem?  Get your own duck decoy pond, jerk.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 05:25:57 PM
Quote
Lions had Super Bowl appearances with Barry Sanders in the 90s

O rly?

"The Lions have won four NFL Championships, the last in 1957, giving the club the second-longest NFL championship drought behind the Arizona Cardinals, who last won in 1947 (as the Chicago Cardinals). The Lions have yet to qualify for the Super Bowl. The team has qualified for the playoffs only nine times in the 50-plus years since winning the 1957 championship and has won only one playoff game in that span."

Google that shat.

Quote
The Pistons are arguably the best team in the Eastern Conference

Pre-Celtics? Sure. In the world of the now-monstrous Celtics? No. And even when the Pistons were consistently the best in the East, the West was king.

As for college sports, I realize it's a desperate attempt when one cites college sports to absolve a state's sporting strength.

Had you mentioned the Wings, all would be different. The Wings have transcended the misery of Michigan. Perhaps by adopting my philosophy above.

P.S. Tigers. :[
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 05, 2008, 06:13:38 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NBA_Finals
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 07:24:39 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NBA_Finals

Eh?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 05, 2008, 07:45:21 PM
Just a response to your comment that the West was the "king" when the Pistons were recently the cream of the crop in the East. I realize "king" is ambiguous enough, but the overall point still stands. Pistons fans are still within the 5 year no-complaint window.

I say this as Jets and Sixers fan, so perhaps I'm speaking out of bitterness.

(admittedly, I'm also a UCONN fan, so thats nice)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 07:59:18 PM
Ah, well, I was speaking holistically. The West has dominated the past decade of professional basketball (e.g., titles, collective team quality, collective player quality, coaching etc.) The Pistons actually do have two titles in the past decade, so I'm not saying they've done nothing. However, they certainly didn't reach dynasty status or significantly approach it. The Spurs and Lakers have established that more thoroughly the past decade. I feel the Celtics have a good chance over the next 5 years. Not the Pistons; their time is past for now.

My original point was that Michigan's professional sporting as a collective whole is rather drab. It ties nicely into Michigan's drabness in general. They might have occasional championships here and there, but as a whole Michigan sporting is not that good--and the future looks worse (See: Tigers; Pistons).*

*I absolutely must qualify this by saying the Wings are easily the best NHL team over the past fifteen years (whereas the Lions may be the worst NFL team over the same period). They will likely repeat as Champions this year. I felt guilty not giving due credit.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 08:04:21 PM
Can you cite a region that's more successful, on average, than Michigan?  Even NYC has the terrible Knicks, the Jets (the Giants are actually a NJ team, despite the NYC association) and two baseball teams that didn't make the playoffs.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 08:08:36 PM
Cite? Hrrmm, there might be some websites out there that have compiled the necessary data. I'm not about to add up wins-losses for hundreds of teams in pro football, baseball, hockey, and basketball and then do calculations. Still, I think it'd be way off base to say Detroit has been rolling; the Lions have one of the worst collective records over the past decade, and the Tigers were breaking losing-season records in the early 2000s.

At any rate, I don't think it's fair to average teams out in states that have multiple teams; I consider a win for a city/state a win for a city/state (apparently you do, too, since you cited MSU and UM together as a counterexample).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 05, 2008, 08:11:17 PM
I don't know if Detroit is the best, but I doubt they're the worst.

Ah, well, I was speaking holistically. The West has dominated the past decade of professional basketball (e.g., titles, collective team quality, collective player quality, coaching etc.) The Pistons actually do have two titles in the past decade, so I'm not saying they've done nothing. However, they certainly didn't reach dynasty status or significantly approach it. The Spurs and Lakers have established that more thoroughly the past decade.

Sure, but if your definition of sports success is establishing dominance over an extended period of time, it just goes to show that Detroit fans don't truly understand sports failure. :)

PS: Just one title, not two.

Quote
I feel the Celtics have a good chance over the next 5 years. Not the Pistons; their time is past for now.

Yes, the Pistons time has past, but the Celtics are not "dynasty" material either.

Quote
My original point was that Michigan's professional sporting as a collective whole is rather drab. It ties nicely into Michigan's drabness in general. We might have occasional championships here and there, but as a whole we're not good--and the future looks worse.

I just can't buy that argument, especially compared to other cities.

In the time since a Philadelphia  major sports team has won a title (Sixers in '83), Detroit teams have won 8 (I'm counting hockey as "major", which is a little inappropriate, but whatever).

If we count NCAA basketball, the only relevant college sport, I guess you can count Villanova winning in '85... but then you have to count Michigan winning in '89 and Michigan St. in 2000.

I'm just using Philadelphia as an example of a tortured sports city, but my point is just to show that Detroit fans really shouldn't complain (if "drab" counts as a complaint).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 05, 2008, 08:15:58 PM
Re: Hickeringill,

If you read the little footnote under the map, apparently he had his own duck pond,  and the neighbor's built this pond right next to it to steal his ducks, which makes him a competitive gun-toting duck scare-r instead of crazy gun-toting duck scare-r.  I love the useless knowledge you get as a part of law school, I now know %200 more about fox hunting and commercial duck ponds than I did last week.


Re: Detroit

Ah, the wings... :-)  I will miss Fox Sports- Detroit/Hockey Night in Canada.  I wonder how many of the Blackhawks games will make it onto basic cable.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: pig floyd on October 05, 2008, 08:18:15 PM
Re: Hickeringill,

If you read the little footnote under the map, apparently he had his own duck pond,  and the neighbor's built this pond right next to it to steal his ducks, which makes him a competitive gun-toting duck scare-r instead of crazy gun-toting duck scare-r.  I love the useless knowledge you get as a part of law school, I now know %200 more about fox hunting and commercial duck ponds than I did last week.

He was also crazy.  Don't be confused.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 08:20:58 PM
Quote
Sure, but if your definition of sports success is establishing dominance over an extended period of time, it just goes to show that Detroit fans don't truly understand sports failure. :)

Interesting. Dynasties are the pinnacle of professional sporting, I'd say, and dynasties are defined as multiple championships within a given time frame.

Quote
...the Celtics are not "dynasty" material either.
We'll see. In any case, they're stronger than the Pistons, which was my original assertion in response to the Pistons "arguably being the best" in the East.

Quote
I'm just using Philadelphia as an example of a tortured sports city, but my point is just to show that Detroit fans really shouldn't complain (if "drab" counts as a complaint).

In a large sense, my original response to this topic was tongue-in-cheek. Also, remember I was responding to a Lions' comment--a team that has never won the Superbowl. I did, nevertheless, say Michigan sporting is rather bad on the whole. I stand by that. You will find worse (Pennsylvania, for example), but that doesn't really address my point.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 08:35:50 PM
Ah, yeah, and without doing the number-crunching, I'd say MA has been more successful in pro sports than Detroit over the past decade. We could do a championship count, but I think it'd also be enlightening to do a win-loss comparison in the four big sports.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 08:37:32 PM
Pierson v. Post is my favorite. Pierson completely owns Post, and then the uppity families spend thousands upon thousands litigating over a FOX. Love it.

I'm already mixing up my case names. Damn!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: pig floyd on October 05, 2008, 08:38:13 PM
Post v. Pierson is my favorite. Pierson completely owns Post, and then the uppity families spend thousands upon thousands litigating over a FOX. Love it.

No, you're doing it wrong.  Bomb lances, son.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 08:41:30 PM
Post v. Pierson is my favorite. Pierson completely owns Post, and then the uppity families spend thousands upon thousands litigating over a FOX. Love it.

No, you're doing it wrong.  Bomb lances, son.

Hahaha, yes...which case was that...I think it was mentioned parenthetically. Weird how the courts used custom in the case to determine possession, but not in Pierson.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: pig floyd on October 05, 2008, 08:42:58 PM
Hahaha, yes...which case was that...I think it was mentioned parenthetically. Weird how the courts used custom in the case to determine possession, but not in Pierson.

You just asked a great policy question for the final.  Get to work.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 05, 2008, 08:48:28 PM
Quote
Get to work.

k. :'(
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 09:18:42 PM
Post v. Pierson is my favorite. Pierson completely owns Post, and then the uppity families spend thousands upon thousands litigating over a FOX. Love it.

No, you're doing it wrong.  Bomb lances, son.

Hahaha, yes...which case was that...I think it was mentioned parenthetically. Weird how the courts used custom in the case to determine possession, but not in Pierson.

What are you talking about?

The rules in the case are fairly straightforward: either you get possession because you have reasonable chance at getting it, or you don't because it's mortally wounded or trapped.  (see: footnote about the well . . . lol)

Or maybe you don't have Strahi.  Or maybe I'm reading poorly.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: pig floyd on October 05, 2008, 09:20:03 PM

The rules in the case are fairly straightforward: either you get possession because you have reasonable chance at getting it, or you don't because it's mortally wounded or trapped.  (see: footnote about the well . . . lol)


Pierson:  Reasonable chance of getting it.  Holding:  doesn't.

[Whale case]: Absurd chance of actually getting it.  Holding:  does.

You're doing it wrong.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 09:35:00 PM
I was distinguishing between the rule of the dissent and the rule of the opinion.  One of them stated a reasonable chance, while the majority stated mortally wounded or whatever.

I'm not familiar with the whale case.

Did anyone see the Titans-Ravens game?  I'm watching highlights and I've never seen such bloodlust in football; it's like they put hockey players in Baltimore.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 09:39:30 PM
Does anyone want to roadtrip to Madison for their Halloween?  Just throwing it out there.  I have friends who went to Wisconsin and it's supposed to be a great Halloween party.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on October 05, 2008, 09:40:26 PM
Pierson: Neither traps (so far as the court knew--the footnote indicates otherwise) nor mortally wounds. Doesn't get it.

Ghen (which Strahi's class didn't read, by the way): Mortally wounds. Does get it.

Custom usage differs, but who cares? They're not mind-blowingly different cases. Unless your mind is easily blown.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: pig floyd on October 05, 2008, 09:42:03 PM
Does anyone want to roadtrip to Madison for their Halloween?  Just throwing it out there.  I have friends who went to Wisconsin and it's supposed to be a great Halloween party.

It is.  They know how to party.

Pierson: Neither traps (so far as the court knew--the footnote indicates otherwise) nor mortally wounds. Doesn't get it.

Ghen (which Strahi's class didn't read, by the way): Mortally wounds. Does get it.

Custom usage differs, but who cares? They're not mind-blowingly different cases. Unless your mind is easily blown.

The economic arguments behind the different results are more compelling.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 05, 2008, 09:47:59 PM
Strahi didn't do Ghen v. Raich this year? Hmm.. we did it last year.

(yes, I'm shocked that I remember it)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 05, 2008, 11:01:15 PM
Strahi didn't do Ghen v. Raich this year? Hmm.. we did it last year.

(yes, I'm shocked that I remember it)

Nope.  And it's not on the list, either.  But now I'm almost tempted to read it for fun before falling asleep tonight.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 06, 2008, 09:12:38 PM
Woo-hoo!! As a grass eating right-fielder, I am stoked about softball!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 07, 2008, 06:04:53 PM
Alright, which one of you gunner 1Ls was trying to do moot court?

Surprisingly, I am absolutely sure that it was not me.  I'm also surprised that you seem to take personal offense to that; you're usually pretty chill.   :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 07, 2008, 06:28:36 PM
Alright, which one of you gunner 1Ls was trying to do moot court?

Mememememe! *injures shoulder*
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 07, 2008, 06:59:38 PM
Does anyone else struggle to get work done once they leave school?  I absolutely can't focus when I'm not sitting in one of those comfy red chairs.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 07, 2008, 08:58:01 PM
A *real* gunner would have known that ahead of time... amateurs...

I'm completely with you on the leaving the law school thing, I have done nothing back here in Regents other than eat two dinners and take a nap on the couch.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 09, 2008, 07:03:26 PM
bar review tonight is right underneath "the apartment" which is an awesome place for drunk dancing.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 20, 2008, 01:31:16 AM
So is the place for the party this thursday better than the Pontiac?  I love dive bars, but expensive psedo-hipster dumps just don't really cut it for me...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 21, 2008, 02:27:14 PM
*in whiny Seinfeld voice*

So what's the deal with Strahi?  The class itself is either navel gazing econ (network effect, tragedy of the commons, commerce) or detail-fixated case reading, but I heard that his final is a no-nonsense issue spotter for which you're expected to rock the BLL? 

Am I missing something?

Also, I think I'm going to start solving more Glannon problems in order to get the hang of the rules.  Or does anyone have a better idea?  It's hard to use 15(c) and relating back the pleading unless I've used it in a variety of contexts -- nevermind the more complicated puzzles thrown out there.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 21, 2008, 02:29:49 PM
So is the place for the party this thursday better than the Pontiac?  I love dive bars, but expensive psedo-hipster dumps just don't really cut it for me...

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of that place.  We left pretty quick and went to some other place nearby.

I think there was a bar review at Zella's last year.  It was pretty standard.  Definitely didn't suck like Pontiac.

I'm debating Zella's.  It's $20 for an open bar + transportation, but, to use the network effect I just learned from Strahi, it doesn't seem worth it unless many other people show up.

Moreover, I feel like I'm cultivating some bad liquor habits.  I completely overshot my September budget for booze.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 21, 2008, 03:52:36 PM
So is the place for the party this thursday better than the Pontiac?  I love dive bars, but expensive psedo-hipster dumps just don't really cut it for me...

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of that place.  We left pretty quick and went to some other place nearby.

I think there was a bar review at Zella's last year.  It was pretty standard.  Definitely didn't suck like Pontiac.

I'm debating Zella's.  It's $20 for an open bar + transportation, but, to use the network effect I just learned from Strahi, it doesn't seem worth it unless many other people show up.

Moreover, I feel like I'm cultivating some bad liquor habits.  I completely overshot my September budget for booze.

booze is an investment in your future. if you can't hold your liquor at firm events or during your 2L summer (and there will be way too many open bars), you look bad. practice acting sober while drunk now and your future self will thank you for it. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 21, 2008, 03:58:07 PM
Whenever we had liquor at work, I stuck to a one-drink rule.  Why can't I apply that in the future?  I doubt that anyone will call me out for drinking a coke without rum. 

Also, no lunch talk on Monday = weaksauce.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 22, 2008, 12:04:57 PM
Is there anything in particular that I should study for Buss's CivPro?  I've started to outline, using the old BLSA outlines as a guide, the FRCP, and my class notes, but I don't know how I can best prepare.  I've also been memorizing most of the big picture stuff in the rules, like a "short and plain" statement of the claim or 12(b)(6), or the fact that you get only one bite at four of the motions to dismiss thanks to 12(g) and 12(h).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 22, 2008, 03:02:53 PM
Sorry for bumping this.  Or thanks.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 23, 2008, 06:29:09 PM
This thread is dead. And I'm not in Buss, so I can't help you out there.

Agreed.  I don't know why our class is not into LSD like 2010.  I know that oscist, you, JusAb, and myself check in on a semi-regular basis, but conversation is largely non-existent.

More interesting is the fact that most of our classmates have no idea that LSD exists.  People will sometimes ask me where I learned something, and I'll mention it, but they'll look bemused.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 26, 2008, 10:33:33 PM
What the f are people doing at the library at all hours?  There are some people who never seem to leave.  Do they necessarily do better on exams?  The answer in the past has been "no," but wow. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 27, 2008, 03:13:25 PM
What the f are people doing at the library at all hours?  There are some people who never seem to leave.  Do they necessarily do better on exams?  The answer in the past has been "no," but wow. 

i've always wondered this. i think you're allowed to be in the law building until 3 am, but assuming it opens at 7 or something, could you just hang out in the library all night? like that book about the two kids who live in a NY museum (by konighberg or something)?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 27, 2008, 05:36:40 PM
Sleepover party!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on October 27, 2008, 06:38:06 PM
Sleepover party!

ahaha do they even have a guard posted downstairs at night? i envision awesome dance parties and finding out if the 2nd floor flat screen has a dvd player...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 27, 2008, 07:24:54 PM
Everything that everyone warned me against in New Grad is true.  IF there are any 2012 people lurking, let me give you a friendly word of caution: if you value your sanity, don't live in New Grad.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 27, 2008, 09:32:49 PM
Everything that everyone warned me against in New Grad is true.  IF there are any 2012 people lurking, let me give you a friendly word of caution: if you value your sanity, don't live in New Grad.

Dude, I have to give you props for going New Grad.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 29, 2008, 04:24:39 PM
Maybe it's an indication of why we ended up at law school, but that book was awesome!! (something along the lines of the "inside every lawyer is a broken poet" quote from Strauss).  I can't say I'm one of those all-night library people, but in defense of some whom to whom I've spoken with, some people who are still getting the hang of the denser legal/case readings and still have to put in a lot of extra time just to make it through the night's assignments.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 29, 2008, 04:38:29 PM
Maybe it's an indication of why we ended up at law school, but that book was awesome!! (something along the lines of the "inside every lawyer is a broken poet" quote from Strauss).  I can't say I'm one of those all-night library people, but in defense of some whom to whom I've spoken with, some people who are still getting the hang of the denser legal/case readings and still have to put in a lot of extra time just to make it through the night's assignments.

Do you have Dixon?  The cases don't seem that dense, but I might be missing something.  I also think most cases can be reduced to one or two sentences, but, again, my grades may reflect fundamental misunderstandings about law school.

You should hang out here more often, ulpian.  I don't know who you are, but this thread needs more active participants.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 29, 2008, 08:38:54 PM
Quote
I'm just using Philadelphia as an example of a tortured sports city, but my point is just to show that Detroit fans really shouldn't complain (if "drab" counts as a complaint).

Congratulations, Philadelphia.  ;D
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on October 30, 2008, 10:06:21 AM
Baseball barely counts. I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a WNBA championship.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on October 30, 2008, 12:30:51 PM
Hahaha, well said.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on October 30, 2008, 01:20:54 PM
I don't think the cases are to bad (although i've still been briefing property, which is starting to feel like a massive waste of time).  I still check the thread pretty regularly.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on October 31, 2008, 03:02:52 PM
Kinda stopped reading for torts . . . prestigious?   :-\

I really think that the cases are a waste of time.  We spent an entire hour on the Hand formula, and most cases can be gleaned perfectly from old outlines/briefs.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 01, 2008, 12:09:54 AM
I am so pissed it's not even funny.  Don't even ask.  Worst.  Night.  Ever.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 01, 2008, 11:12:33 AM
Tell you some other time.  Honestly, I think the law school rumor mill will probably churn enough to bring it to you regardless of my actions.

Waldo costume was nice.  I regret not dressing up.

What happened to Bosco?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 01, 2008, 11:27:04 AM
Ohhh, drama. I lead such a mundane life.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 01, 2008, 12:45:58 PM
Tell you some other time.  Honestly, I think the law school rumor mill will probably churn enough to bring it to you regardless of my actions.

Waldo costume was nice.  I regret not dressing up.

What happened to Bosco?

damn it, i need more 1L connections so i can catch up on all the juicy gossip.

my friend and i were trying to get a cab on a street corner around 2 and eventually had to call a car service. i did enjoy the drunken college boys though. "hey ladiesssss" is an under-rated pick up line.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 01, 2008, 02:47:16 PM
Although a number of people told me not to worry about obscure rules and timing issues, 26(f) and Rule 16 made cameos on last year's CivPro exam and irrelevant timing issues seemed vital in Part I because she expected commentary on the dates.  Let me see if I'm missing anything:

120 days after filing a complaint to serve it.
60 days for defendant to answer complaint with waiver.
20 days for defendant to answer without waiver.
Judge must issue scheduling order 120 days after serve or 90 days after defendant appears.  (what does "appeared" mean?)

Plaintiff can voluntarily dismiss before answer or motion for summary judgement.  (the unloved Rule 41.  poor 41.   :'()

21 day amnesty after a motion for Rule 11 sanctions. 

10 days to amend complaint after motion for more definite statement.  (but who cares?  this rule is TTT.)
20 days for court to strike if response not allowed.  (again, useless rule.)

Plaintiff can amend complaint answer as matter of course before response.
20 days for defendant to amend answer as matter of course.
10 days after service or amended pleading to respond, or remaining time left to respond, whichever is later.  (important?  perhaps.  Amended complaints are a big deal.)

14 days to make initial disclosures after 26(f) conference.
Confer under 26(f) at least 21 days before scheduling conference or scheduling order due.

I think most of you guys have/had Baird, so I don't feel gunnerish doing this.  Also, my apologies to Bosco: I'm ignoring your advice and doing a wee bit of exam work now so I have a better idea on how to work through this last month.  (Or not work, like I'm not doing in Torts.  Or ignoring policy in Property, unless it's TTTragedy of the Commons.)

Going to a post-Halloween party tonight in the South Loop . . . w00t!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 02, 2008, 02:26:01 AM
Two words.  Possibly one.  Rhymes with trover.   :-[
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 02, 2008, 09:35:17 AM
Waldo costume was nice.  I regret not dressing up.

haha that's generous of you. and claire, we had similar problems getting a cab at 3am. you'd think there would be more cabs in lincoln park.

i think it's all the drunk halloween revelers. it's about $35 for a car so my friend and i traveled back to hyde park with class.

and i didn't have baird so i can't help you there. i've actually blocked out most of my 1L exams (and my 2L ones, actually....).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 02, 2008, 12:43:59 PM
Despite my initial hostility to elements, I'm starting to like it.  The big picture seems to be that certain arguments can be deployed in many contexts to similar effect; there are finite arguments and counterarguments.  Isn't it the legislature's job to make law?  Do you really have freedom to contract?  Can you ever point to a tradition and justify it?

I've heard that he gives an exam checklist, but I'm tempted to mix-and-match arguments/counterarguments from previous BLSA outlines and a Sunstein outline that someone sent me.  On the other hand, I'm probably wasting my time.

I'm curious to hear how others feel about that class.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 02, 2008, 02:23:33 PM
I love Elements, but I was an enthusiastic Poli Sci major in undergrad, and its the only class that feels like home here.  I also have Strauss, who may be the most intelligent yet least threatening man on earth.  I went up to Wrigleyville for Halloween, and I have yet to visit that neighborhood at a time where it doesn't feel like a drunken mix between a frat party and carnival.  Good times though...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on November 02, 2008, 06:33:33 PM
From briefly reviewing an exam or two, it seems like we're finally getting into the meat of the class.  I can't imagine any of the exam will revolve around jurisprudence.  Either way, it's enjoyable, but I'm enjoying all of my classes. 

And yes, I mostly just float onto this site every week or two.  I know who you three are, so it's easier for me to just talk to you in school.  :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 02, 2008, 11:48:29 PM
I saw Helmholz by Treasure Island today.  It was odd to see him without a suit.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 03, 2008, 10:20:35 AM
What should I do, if anything, to prepare for my OCS meeting?  I looked over the books they gave us, but the amount of info was nauseating.  Honestly, I'm tempted to go the Bosco route and just RA for someone.  It pays okay, and I can sub-lease a friend's place in Hyde Park and enjoy my summer.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 03, 2008, 01:46:36 PM
What should I do, if anything, to prepare for my OCS meeting?  I looked over the books they gave us, but the amount of info was nauseating.  Honestly, I'm tempted to go the Bosco route and just RA for someone.  It pays okay, and I can sub-lease a friend's place in Hyde Park and enjoy my summer.

Haha, to be fair, the Bosco route involved striking out at getting a firm job before settling for an RA job.

But in retrospect the RA thing worked out pretty well for me.  Obviously most people would choose 3k a week (and I probably still would too), but if you're looking for one last really really relaxing summer, I would definitely choose an RA job over things like the clinic, judicial internships, public interest, etc.  There are obviously lots of reasons to take those other jobs, but the RA job is probably most conducive to spending a summer screwing around, if that's what you're looking for.

That's what I mean.  Because I probably won't find a firm job -- or anyone else, for that matter -- I would prefer an easy summer over:

1. a 6k loan for free labor
2. clinic
3. judicial internship that also requires loan

I'm hoping that the "contact" aspect of 1L summer is overrated.  I mean, I'm probably not going to make many contacts as an RA, so I hope that I don't miss out on some great PI networking or something.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 03, 2008, 02:27:05 PM
What has OCS said about firm jobs? Not going to happen?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 03, 2008, 03:14:30 PM
What has OCS said about firm jobs? Not going to happen?

They suggested it.  During the presentation, they first said that, "You've probably read the news and know that the economy isn't the greatest right now.  And that we're going through a rough patch . . . but, at the UC, you're well positioned!"  Then, later, they pointed to the 34% firm job number and said that they don't expect it to be "as high" this year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 03, 2008, 05:11:22 PM
Well, to be fair, a 34% rate for 1Ls is amazing compared to most law schools.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 03, 2008, 06:57:24 PM
I hope that Strahi either:

-- doesn't test Rule of Perpetuities

or:

-- the explanation tomorrow is lucid and amazing and I don't get called on
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 03, 2008, 07:05:07 PM
I hope that Strahi either:

-- doesn't test Rule of Perpetuities

or:

-- the explanation tomorrow is lucid and amazing and I don't get called on

he usually does a disclaimer that he doesn't test on it, but you should study it in case. it was on our 1L property exam, but only because we were supposed to say it didn't apply (of course, being the genius i am, i said it did and proceeded with a detailed explanation. not my best exam showing.)

as i recall, CA won't even let you sue a lawyer for malpractice if he messes up the rule against perpetuities.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 03, 2008, 07:21:52 PM
Yay for California.  I spent over two hours on this thing, and I honestly don't think I have a good grasp of it.  The "wait-and-see" doctrine makes so much more sense, anyway.  What's the point of a hypothetical rule that presumes 80 year old women giving childbirth and "precocious toddlers"?

(@#$.

Did you say that a contingent reminder interest was void?  What was your detailed answer like, if you don't mind my asking?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 03, 2008, 07:23:15 PM
Also, they need to bring Wine Mess back to Friday.  I have too much Torts for drinking, unfortunately.   :(
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 03, 2008, 08:33:44 PM

as i recall, CA won't even let you sue a lawyer for malpractice if he messes up the rule against perpetuities.

Yes, I laughed when I read this in the material. Damn RAP.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 03, 2008, 09:02:02 PM
I don't think I've ever been so supremely disappointed in New Grad as tonight.  There's $5 wing night and I offered to buy a pitcher of Guinness.  Everyone wants to work.  The hell is wrong with you people?  We're on election eve.  The bar is across the street.  Take an hour off!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 03, 2008, 10:20:28 PM
Just came back.  Definitely come out sometime.  A friend of mine and I always go.  The wings are delicious.  I love the spicy sauce and there's nothing like a cold pitcher after a long Monday.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 05, 2008, 12:04:38 PM
Strahi outlines:

May or may not exist?

Also a bit of impromptu wit from another LSDer:

"•   Professor Wright (more like Professor Wrong)"
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: goaliechica on November 06, 2008, 12:31:28 PM
WTF do we have a panel of five non-LR people telling us what to do on exams?  Huge waste of time that was.  If you think you know what goes into a "182 answer," then why didn't you write it?    :P

Is LR purely grade-on at your school?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 06, 2008, 01:03:41 PM
More or less.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: goaliechica on November 06, 2008, 02:49:52 PM
WTF do we have a panel of five non-LR people telling us what to do on exams?  Huge waste of time that was.  If you think you know what goes into a "182 answer," then why didn't you write it?    :P

Is LR purely grade-on at your school?

19 grade on as long as they put in a good faith effort on the competition.  The other 10 get on solely based on the competition.

So discounting anyone not on law review as obviously not having good grades is a little extreme, no?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 06, 2008, 03:51:02 PM
I'm usually joking.  I don't know why I take so much flack for my comments (well, I understand the hostility toward the T14 trolling, but still).   :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 06, 2008, 06:37:12 PM
Yay for California.  I spent over two hours on this thing, and I honestly don't think I have a good grasp of it.  The "wait-and-see" doctrine makes so much more sense, anyway.  What's the point of a hypothetical rule that presumes 80 year old women giving childbirth and "precocious toddlers"?

(@#$.

Did you say that a contingent reminder interest was void?  What was your detailed answer like, if you don't mind my asking?

it was a superbly dumb thing to do, because if i had been thinking rationally, i would have been like...OH, BUT HE SAID WE WOULDN'T REALLY BE TESTED ON IT SO IT'S PROBABLY NON-APPLICABLE. i actually don't have my exam anymore (i've basically deleted all my exams except the strong showings). i do remember that i got it back in my folder at one point with a sad face where i said it applied.

but again, he may have changed since then. if he hasn't said he won't test on it, you might ask him based on what some upper-classmen said (anyone in my year in his class should remember). in any case, you should have an idea of when it would apply, but the answer on the exam would probably be no if it comes up at all.

y'all are missing out on the mpre this saturday. conventional wisdom is that it's hard to fail, but so far, i seem to be giving that a pretty good shot.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 06, 2008, 09:59:49 PM
Quote
i do remember that i got it back in my folder at one point with a sad face where i said it applied.

Haha, nice.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 07, 2008, 01:10:16 PM
I love the 9th Circuit so much.  Whenever I see a 9th Circuit decision, I know I can expect lucid writing and actual argumentation.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 07, 2008, 02:15:01 PM
Sarcasm?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 07, 2008, 03:20:31 PM
Sarcasm?

Huh?  No.  I love Kozinski, for instance.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 08, 2008, 02:04:50 PM
My Elements outline is utter crap.  I didn't take notes in class and now I'm regretting it.

Representative sample:

LEGAL realism: 1. Law is not self-contained.  There are policy elements.  This is why we love Holmes.  And 2. Precedent can stand for several different things, leaving judge to interpret it.
CRITICISMS: what if social scientists don’t have all the answers?  What about predictability?  How the @#!* will your client know what to do?  What about precedent as a check on the legal system?  Can’t we have crazy realist judges doing whatever?  Slippery slope.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on November 09, 2008, 12:35:28 PM
People outline for Elements? I used a BLSA outline (the same BLSA outline everyone uses for Sunstein, not that it helps anyone now), and it was largely useless anyhow. But then, elements with Sunstein may be unlike other Elements classes.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 09, 2008, 12:38:02 PM
People outline for Elements? I used a BLSA outline (the same BLSA outline everyone uses for Sunstein, not that it helps anyone now), and it was largely useless anyhow. But then, elements with Sunstein may be unlike other Elements classes.

Interesting.  I looked at your practice exam (the one with the at-will employment, and the single parent as the first question), and it seemed to line up fairly well with notions of rules vs. discretion, freedom to contract, and, most importantly, reading statutes.

But I could be way off here.  And I heard that Elements grades tended to be random.

Does anyone think I should outline for Strauss?  The class is like a tennis match: he'll make an argument and ask someone to provide a counter-argument.  My outline will take that form.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 10, 2008, 09:25:29 AM
People outline for Elements? I used a BLSA outline (the same BLSA outline everyone uses for Sunstein, not that it helps anyone now), and it was largely useless anyhow. But then, elements with Sunstein may be unlike other Elements classes.

Interesting.  I looked at your practice exam (the one with the at-will employment, and the single parent as the first question), and it seemed to line up fairly well with notions of rules vs. discretion, freedom to contract, and, most importantly, reading statutes.

But I could be way off here.  And I heard that Elements grades tended to be random.

Does anyone think I should outline for Strauss?  The class is like a tennis match: he'll make an argument and ask someone to provide a counter-argument.  My outline will take that form.

i used a blsa outline for strauss and made my own for samaha. incidentally, did better in elements and pretty much bombed civ pro. i've never made another outline from scratch after that.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 10, 2008, 10:41:00 AM
Does anyone have a Buss outline?  I'm at wit's end trying to find one.  I asked JLSA students, BLSA students, the guys in my dorms, the academic counselors (what's the deal with them not being able to send theirs?  WTF?), my uncle, the 1976 roster of the Edmonton Oilers . . . you get the point.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 10, 2008, 04:26:49 PM
LSD Contest: how many people will lottery for a spot in the bailout seminar? More than the Easterbrook seminar?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 10, 2008, 05:21:10 PM
Re: Another Chicago 1L
Quote
the 1976 roster of the Edmonton Oilers

Thats your problem. If you would have asked the '78 Oilers, you would have had Wayne Gretzky, and everyone knows that there isn't anything that he couldn't do.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 10, 2008, 08:35:05 PM
I'm not bidding on the bailout seminar (I'm actually not bidding on any seminars). I think you overestimate the number of people willing to take a class involving that much financial stuff. Its good for a lunch panel, but an entire quarter? I'd shoot myself. Although the professor lineup is tempting.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on November 10, 2008, 10:15:04 PM
Does anyone have a Buss outline?  I'm at wit's end trying to find one.  I asked JLSA students, BLSA students, the guys in my dorms, the academic counselors (what's the deal with them not being able to send theirs?  WTF?), my uncle, the 1976 roster of the Edmonton Oilers . . . you get the point.

There are 14 Buss outlines on the BLSA website. 

http://blsa.uchicago.edu/firstyear.html
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 11, 2008, 05:39:29 AM
I'm not bidding on the bailout seminar (I'm actually not bidding on any seminars). I think you overestimate the number of people willing to take a class involving that much financial stuff. Its good for a lunch panel, but an entire quarter? I'd shoot myself. Although the professor lineup is tempting.

This is a good point; I'm not 100% sure I would take it if I got in but I bid on it anyway. If not, I don't think I'm taking any seminars - after someone keyed me into the glory that is the Sunstein Environmental Law class.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 11, 2008, 10:41:23 AM
I wish I could take Sunstein, but it conflicts with FedJur.

PS: I find it hilarious that Sunstein rescheduled the class so that it'll be done before the Inauguration.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 11, 2008, 10:56:22 AM
Ah, so the gang is back? :P

You guys were so prolific in 2010.  I guess 2L doesn't require that type of procrastination/info sharing.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on November 11, 2008, 12:37:34 PM
Re: Another Chicago 1L
Quote
the 1976 roster of the Edmonton Oilers

Thats your problem. If you would have asked the '78 Oilers, you would have had Wayne Gretzky, and everyone knows that there isn't anything that he couldn't do.

To nitpick a lot, when people say the '76 Oilers, they mean the 75-76 team, not the 76-77 team. (Cause honestly, the playoffs are what matter.) As such, Gretzky was not on the '78 Oilers (despite beginning on November 3, 1978).

Also, the Bailout seminar sounds hellish. I fully intend to take as many seminars as I can, and I can assure you I did not consider, even for a moment, taking the Bailouts seminar.

Further, Sunstein rescheduled? I though it was always the first two weeks of the term. I am often wrong though, as you know.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 11, 2008, 06:37:36 PM
Spots opening up in the bailout lottery all of the time apparently...


I'm not sure about the Sunstein thing but as someone said yesterday - they're going to have to tear down the wall between the auditorium and the courtroom to fit everybody in.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 11, 2008, 07:11:05 PM
Maybe Sunstein didn't actually reschedule, but planned in advance to be done by inauguration time. But still, now that I think about it, no way would I take that class. Its going to be packed and I'm not interested in the subject matter.

I ended up bidding on some seminars anyway.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 11, 2008, 07:26:30 PM
Total speculation: what are my chances, as a 1L, of getting Roman Law in the Spring with Epstein?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 11, 2008, 07:49:14 PM
Maybe Sunstein didn't actually reschedule, but planned in advance to be done by inauguration time. But still, now that I think about it, no way would I take that class. Its going to be packed and I'm not interested in the subject matter.

I ended up bidding on some seminars anyway.


I'm not interested in the subject matter either but I loved Sunstein and it's 7 classes for two credits. If me and 400 other people want to take it I'm okay with that.  :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 11, 2008, 08:58:02 PM
Total speculation: what are my chances, as a 1L, of getting Roman Law in the Spring with Epstein?

Are you truly interested in taking it? The cap is set at 23, and we have around 190 classmates. Figure ~50% bid (guess). So that's 95 people vying for 23 seats, which would give you a 24% chance.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 11, 2008, 09:31:58 PM
I don't know how it works for a 1L seminar. Our year, I believe all the classes were open to however many people wanted to take it.

And I've heard that Roman Law (with Epstein) is great.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 11, 2008, 09:49:14 PM
I'm "truly interested" in having three, as opposed to four, finals.  Also, I could take a bite out of the substantial writing requirement; I've heard that you can polish seminar papers into 30-40 page essays.

I guess another option is to take a flaky class with what I'm assuming will be a less intensive final.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on November 11, 2008, 10:38:02 PM
Taking a paper class for an elective is great. I had one fewer finals than most of my 1L brethren (aside from anonymous) and didn't have to focus as much on reading for that class all quarter. That said, I'm not bidding on roman Law with Epstein, but I'm betting that many, many folks will, and not just 1L's.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 11, 2008, 11:08:57 PM
Total speculation: what are my chances, as a 1L, of getting Roman Law in the Spring with Epstein?

Are you truly interested in taking it? The cap is set at 23, and we have around 190 classmates. Figure ~50% bid (guess). So that's 95 people vying for 23 seats, which would give you a 24% chance.

Is Roman Law really that exciting? Ugh.

Are we bidding on 1L classes? Or just for Roman Law because it's a seminar? (Also, your calculations don't factor in the fact that 2Ls and 3Ls may also look to bid.)

I could be mistaken, but I have the impression this is exclusively for 1Ls. If not, then only a handful of 1Ls will probably get in.

Also, I have no intentions of bidding on Roman Law. It does seem to be hyped.

I'll likely take legislation with Huq. My only concern, especially after taking Elements this year, is that he's never taught. Sometimes professors need time to find their "groove."
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on November 11, 2008, 11:35:31 PM
Total speculation: what are my chances, as a 1L, of getting Roman Law in the Spring with Epstein?

Are you truly interested in taking it? The cap is set at 23, and we have around 190 classmates. Figure ~50% bid (guess). So that's 95 people vying for 23 seats, which would give you a 24% chance.

Is Roman Law really that exciting? Ugh.

Are we bidding on 1L classes? Or just for Roman Law because it's a seminar? (Also, your calculations don't factor in the fact that 2Ls and 3Ls may also look to bid.)

I could be mistaken, but I have the impression this is exclusively for 1Ls. If not, then only a handful of 1Ls will probably get in.

Nope - the 1L electives are not solely for 1Ls, just the only classes available to 1Ls.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 11, 2008, 11:40:02 PM
Thanks. LSD teaches me something new at least once a day.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 11, 2008, 11:43:24 PM
I heard that Jurisprudence might be interesting, but it's all lecture.  I'm guessing the final for that can't be *too* hard, right?  And it's like a quasi-elements type class?

I'm more worried about doing well in Crim, CivPro, and Contracts, which are core classes and obviously more relevant to my grade.  LRW will be rough, too, but a "good faith" effort merits a 178.

I bet that Roman Law will be totally packed, particularly with recent rumors that Epstein is in his second-to-last or even last year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 12, 2008, 04:09:30 AM
Not sure subject matter dictates difficulty as much as the professor. I know nothing about Leiter's grading style, nor any of the other elective professors. I'm also focusing on my core courses, even though I'd probably invest a lot of time in legislation, too; I hear it's a very useful subject for law students.

I do know that I'll be staying away from theory-heavy classes for a while thanks to Elements.  :-\
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 12, 2008, 08:26:32 AM
Taking a paper class for an elective is great. I had one fewer finals than most of my 1L brethren (aside from anonymous) and didn't have to focus as much on reading for that class all quarter. That said, I'm not bidding on roman Law with Epstein, but I'm betting that many, many folks will, and not just 1L's.

In hindsight, for me at least, paper course = bad idea.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on November 12, 2008, 01:09:03 PM
In hindsight, for me at least, paper course = bad idea.

But then where would I  get my topics from?

Also, for the record, no classes are really easier or harder, unless they aren't on the scale. You just have to do better than your classmates, not master some ever-so-tricky subject. If it's simple for you, it is simple for all, and no one gains ground relative to grades.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 12, 2008, 02:57:12 PM
That makes me feel better about Property and Torts.  I think everyone is on the same page in CivPro and Elements, unfortunately.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 12, 2008, 04:16:43 PM
BREAKING NEWS: Environmental Law canceled... Sunstein --> Obama Administration for sure.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 12, 2008, 04:55:04 PM
 :D

It looks like Harvard won't have him, or Kagan, for long.

Does anyone know whether Strauss is leaving, too?  I was hoping to be his RA.  That would be tough to take.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 12, 2008, 05:43:11 PM
anyone want to bet on how soon john paul stevens will resign after the inauguration? i have to give that guy credit for sticking out the bush years but i can't imagine he wants to spend his 90s on the bench....
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 12, 2008, 05:48:12 PM
Holmes was on SCOTUS until age 93, but, yeah, I would be all about the margaritas and Cabo if I were in his shoes.

Can all of the 2Ls please share what they did during 1L summer and how they found it?  The sheer amount of 1L job info that's been thrown at me has been overwhelming.  Honestly, I think I just want to RA and hopefully work at a clinic.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 12, 2008, 06:39:42 PM
I'll bite re: 1L jobs.

I worked at a firm in a secondary market near where I went to college. I sent out ~200 resumes December 1st to 5 markets (Chicago. NYC, 3 smaller markets) and ended up getting 3 interviews from that. I did two and got one offer by mid-January before grades came out.

I think this year is going to be tough for 1Ls looking for firm jobs which will in turn ratchet up the demand for on-campus positions, but ultimately everyone gets something so don't stress about it too much.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on November 12, 2008, 10:40:34 PM
I worked at a firm in a secondary market near where I went to college. I sent out ~200 resumes December 1st to 5 markets (Chicago. NYC, 3 smaller markets) and ended up getting 3 interviews from that. I did two and got one offer by mid-January before grades came out.

 :o

Is this ratio normal?

I didn't apply to firms, but yes.  Many people send that many resumes and don't get any offer.  Finding a firm job 1L year seems to require a) ties to a firm, b) something the firms are looking for (particularly diversity), c) a great pre-law school resume, or d) dumb luck.

I worked on the Hill.  Got the job through my previous work experience.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on November 12, 2008, 11:26:41 PM
I worked at a firm in a secondary market near where I went to college. I sent out ~200 resumes December 1st to 5 markets (Chicago. NYC, 3 smaller markets) and ended up getting 3 interviews from that. I did two and got one offer by mid-January before grades came out.

 :o

Is this ratio normal?

Yes.

I sent out 220-ish resumes to about half a dozen markets (the standard Chicago, NYC as well as smaller markets I had connections to).  Got about 9 interviews, did about 7 and got my offer for my job in Tokyo before hearing from anywhere else, and withdrew. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 12, 2008, 11:40:30 PM
I worked for a federal appellate judge. I wanted to work for either a judge or a professor (maybe government), so I can't speak to firms. I sent out about 80-100 resumes, I think, to judges around December 15th (it was a few days after finals). I basically sent out resumes to every federal district and appellate judge in (a) the state I spent the first 12 years of my life in, (b) the state I went to high school and college in, and (c) the state (district, actually) that I want to go to after I graduate.

I'm not sure how many judges extended interviews, but I think it was around 10. I'm not sure because the judge I ended up working for was the first person who called me back and the first interview I did. He offered me the job during the interview and I accepted on the spot, so I'm not sure how the rest of my job search would have worked out (I had a couple of DOJ interviews lined up that I had to cancel and a few judges as well).. As for my judicial internship, it was a great experience and I wholeheartedly recommend it to everyone who can afford to work for free for the summer (caveat: I had friends who worked for judges who hated it; it depends entirely on the judge... mine was awesome).

Also: my resume is sparse, but it still makes it clear where I fall on the political spectrum... and the responses I got from judges were fairly partisan. Just something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on November 17, 2008, 09:50:50 PM
Buffet: You say you received one offer before grades came out; did you accept that and withdraw from your other positions?  I'm curious as to the effect two grades will have on potential employers, and if you think you would have received more offers post-grades (if your grades were good). 

As a logical consequence, would this suggest applying for positions later, so you are less likely to receive early offers in advance of grades and keep your would-be employers dangling (and possibly retracting their offer -- I'm not sure what the relevant NALP guidelines are for accepting a firm offer, or if there are any formal or informal guidelines for accepting other employer offers) before you can see your employment picture a bit more clearly?  From what I understand, the informal mandate to get resumes out on December 1st is very unnecessary, and according to my scenario above, possibly harmful. 

I always figured I would live with my brother in DC, but it seems like a lot of Chicago 1Ls are looking for jobs there; it could be fun to room together.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 17, 2008, 11:59:55 PM
FYI, DC jobs aren't the easiest to get during 1L summer. Especially if you're limiting yourself to firms.

I'd also imagine that the rolling nature of 1L hiring makes applying earlier far more valuable than any possible gains from just two grades (one of which is "Elements"). And it really is quite a long wait for the grades; you probably won't get them till mid to late January.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 18, 2008, 02:46:45 AM
I want to live in DC.  Who else is interested?  I did not realize there was such a large DC contingent in our class.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: oscist on November 18, 2008, 07:56:24 AM
Well, my OCS advisor didn't say to not apply early, just that it was not worth stressing yourself out to get letters out by December 1. 

When I say DC, I definitely don't mean firms, by the way -- more like think tanks, government positions, etc.  Non-paying jobs, in other words. 

Pretty much everyone I talk to wants to go to DC -- I just asked Tim sit across the table from me in the Green Lounge where he wants to work, and he said DC, too. 



Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 18, 2008, 03:39:00 PM
Epstein to NYU... I want my tuition money back, this school is a sinking ship.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 18, 2008, 03:44:33 PM
Epstein and Sunstein in the same two years, I hope some of our younger profs hang around long enough to become similarly eminent profs.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ArthurKing on November 18, 2008, 05:27:25 PM
Not a big deal, although I'm sure you'll hear chatter about it for a week or two. By the time Epstein leaves Chicago / joins NYU, he'll be approaching 68 (his birthday is in the spring). NYU is notorious for this - they grab renowned professors (who made their name and reputation elsewhere) when they're in their 'gray' years. This gives them (NYU) the ability to stick their names on admit pamphlets and - for a time, until the law of averages kicks in - to use their overall career statistics to boost rank. Reality is, they're not adding value. It might hurt to say it now, but Epstein was on his way out one way or the other, and, in the long run, if it's a choice between cultivating strong young professors vs. going overboard to retain a storied (but stalling) old one, it's better to chose the former.

Not saying that post-60 professors can't still make contributions - they can and do - but the costs of retaining them (if they are itching to go) add up quickly. Moreover, Epstein's publication rate has been declining fairly dramatically since 2000, although his impact factor seems to be stable (I acknowledge that my statistics are not up to date, ending in 2005 - maybe he had a dramatic upswing in the last 2-3 years, but I doubt it)

Chicago isn't above doing this sort of stuff - I think they have R. Coase as an 'Emeritus' despite the fact that Mr. Coase lives in a retirement home somewhere on the north shore of the lake - but NYU has a rotten reputation for it, more than any other school in the T14 I think. There's another debate to be had regarding how much perception becomes reality, e.g. fresh-faced 22-year-old sees Epstein at NYU and opts for that school over Chicago - but, rationally, I'd be much more focused on all the excellent young faculty being brought in over the last year, as well as the strength of the school's 'middle-age' faculty, who are doing phenomenally well - at least three of them are one 'major' publication away from major-league status (guess who) although whether that happens or not is hard to predict. (And there's still plenty of older 'name draw': Posner, Easterbrook, Helmholz, Landes, Nussbaum, Stone, and - with due deference to her age, as I might be fudging a bit here, Wood all have the same sort of gravitas and reputation - either professional, academically, or both - as Epstein has or had.)
 
Despite suggestions to the contray, the executive and administrative structure at the law school is quite attuned to the faculty's composition and their likely departure routes. This was not a surprise, nor was it really a loss from their prespective  - at least not a significant one. (Sunstein was a loss, although he's going to be in the Obama administration, so it wasn't Harvard's gain)

Ultimately, Epstein's departure is a PR tragedy but not something I'd sweat as a Chicago student.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 18, 2008, 05:42:47 PM
Does this really affect us?  I want an offer from a V5 firm or the DoJ, not some guy teaching me the policy implications of conversion in a an ex ante causer pays regime.

Chicago still has more brand-name professors than any school beneath it.  Can you name a professor at Boalt or Penn?  Psh.  What about Columbia?  Nope.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 18, 2008, 05:57:22 PM
Does this really affect us?  I want an offer from a V5 firm or the DoJ, not some guy teaching me the policy implications of conversion in a an ex ante causer pays regime.

Chicago still has more brand-name professors than any school beneath it.  Can you name a professor at Boalt or Penn?  Psh.  What about Columbia?  Nope.


I don't dispute this but when I was a 0L I only knew ~5 law profs and both of the ones I knew from Chicago are no longer there. Does it really impact me? No, not really. But it does seem a little indicative of a general trend. Search for that Leiter scholarly impact thing and I think Epstein and Sunstein were two of the top three overall and they're no longer here. Bummer.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 18, 2008, 07:56:35 PM
I'm not really complaining, its just a sad piece of timing that they both left this close to each other.  When I was doing apps, one of the first thing I noticed was that a massive number of the awesome professors I met at other schools had done 5-10-15 years here first before they went off to be rock stars in Boston-NYC (or, SCOTUS).  I just know a lot of our really good professors end up moving west or east after they've made their name here, and I'd love to see a couple of them hang around for 20 or 30 years like Epstein or Sunstein.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 18, 2008, 09:22:20 PM
Epstein to NYU... I want my tuition money back, this school is a sinking ship.

In name only (although I guess name is important). Nothing about his schedule actually changes with the "move". For a long time now Epstein has been doing fall at NYU, winter at Hoover, and Spring at Chicago (with a couple exceptions here and there). This doesn't change anything in that sense. As for why it happened, apparently NYU made him an offer he couldn't refuse (basically buying his citation count).

Chicago isn't above doing this sort of stuff - I think they have R. Coase as an 'Emeritus' despite the fact that Mr. Coase lives in a retirement home somewhere on the north shore of the lake

Thats not really comparable. Coase taught here as a full-time professor for 18 years before taking emeritus status. And even as an emeritus, he was teaching classes, showing up at the law school, etc. until recently. At this point, with a person like that, you don't take away the emeritus title until he's passed away.

Quote
Ultimately, Epstein's departure is a PR tragedy but not something I'd sweat as a Chicago student.

Agreed. Especially those of us in the class of 2010. C'mon, this year alone we'll get a chance to take Epstein for Admin and Environmental Law. Thats quite awesome.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 19, 2008, 10:16:48 AM
Epstein to NYU... I want my tuition money back, this school is a sinking ship.

In name only (although I guess name is important). Nothing about his schedule actually changes with the "move". For a long time now Epstein has been doing fall at NYU, winter at Hoover, and Spring at Chicago (with a couple exceptions here and there). This doesn't change anything in that sense. As for why it happened, apparently NYU made him an offer he couldn't refuse (basically buying his citation count).


I think that statement is what bugs me about the situation. If it really changes nothing it means that the school was unable/unwilling to pony up enough money/perks/whatever to keep him here in name. Whether it should be this way or not, rankings matter and I wouldn't be surprised to see ours continue to fall. This is disappointing and I'd like to see something done about it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 19, 2008, 10:39:18 AM
Why is it that CLS can get away with having virtually no big-name professors and maintain a top ranking and we can't?  The LSAT/GPA range is very similar between the schools.

Seriously, name a Michigan professor beyond J.J. White and the guy that Omri . . . oh, wait, he teaches here now.  I just saw him in the lounge.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on November 19, 2008, 10:51:05 AM
Why is it that CLS can get away with having virtually no big-name professors and maintain a top ranking and we can't?  The LSAT/GPA range is very similar between the schools.

Seriously, name a Michigan professor beyond J.J. White and the guy that Omri . . . oh, wait, he teaches here now.  I just saw him in the lounge.

I clearly don't know what I'm talking about here, Pre knows a lot more about this stuff than me... but the one CLS prof I know of it near and dear to the hearts of every 1L: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Chirelstein
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: DrLazarus on November 19, 2008, 11:02:27 AM
Why is it that CLS can get away with having virtually no big-name professors and maintain a top ranking and we can't?  The LSAT/GPA range is very similar between the schools.

Seriously, name a Michigan professor beyond J.J. White and the guy that Omri . . . oh, wait, he teaches here now.  I just saw him in the lounge.

Yale Kamisar still teaches...kind of.  He's still technically "here" though.  I'm sure there are others, but I'm blanking at the moment.  On a related note, I always figured Chicago had some pretty well named professors too...so this isn't an attack or anything.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 19, 2008, 02:58:39 PM
I am getting so behind in Gersen's class.  An outline was a saving grace for a while, but I really need to re-learn things over break.  I also think that the class could be considerably simplified with a big picture overview.  The Glannon book makes it seem so simple, but Gersen -- by omitting things like foreseeability -- sort of throws us into the dark.

I might be wrong.  You might have loved his class, but I think his teaching method is confusing.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 19, 2008, 03:16:20 PM
Epstein to NYU... I want my tuition money back, this school is a sinking ship.

In name only (although I guess name is important). Nothing about his schedule actually changes with the "move". For a long time now Epstein has been doing fall at NYU, winter at Hoover, and Spring at Chicago (with a couple exceptions here and there). This doesn't change anything in that sense. As for why it happened, apparently NYU made him an offer he couldn't refuse (basically buying his citation count).


I think that statement is what bugs me about the situation. If it really changes nothing it means that the school was unable/unwilling to pony up enough money/perks/whatever to keep him here in name. Whether it should be this way or not, rankings matter and I wouldn't be surprised to see ours continue to fall. This is disappointing and I'd like to see something done about it.

Don't want to post it on LSD, but there was a perk NYU offered that (a) I doubt we could match and (b) I probably wouldn't match even if we could.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on November 19, 2008, 03:31:16 PM
Why is it that CLS can get away with having virtually no big-name professors and maintain a top ranking and we can't?  The LSAT/GPA range is very similar between the schools.

I guess there's John Coffee, George Fletcher, and Marvin Chirelstein (I actually don't know if he's a big scholar or not, but he's certainly a name 1Ls should know). Definitely not in the realm of our big names, but still worth mentioning.

They also have a pair of professors that are starting to move into the "public intellectual" territory: Tim Wu and Michael Heller.

Quote
Seriously, name a Michigan professor beyond J.J. White and the guy that Omri . . . oh, wait, he teaches here now.  I just saw him in the lounge.

Off the top of my head, there's Catharine MacKinnon, James Krier, and Phoebe Ellsworth. All of them qualify, especially MacKinnon and Krier.

I'd say almost all the top schools have a few big name profs.

As for Chicago, we're in transition mode. Our faculty is shockingly young, the youngest of all the top schools. Of course, these young profs are also pretty impressive in their own right (Strahi, Gersen, Malani, Miles, and countless others). These are the future big names. And its still nice having Posner, Easterbrook, Landes, Wood, Nussbaum, Helmholz, Strauss, Levmore, Baird, etc. here.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on November 19, 2008, 03:35:48 PM
I would rather female dog and moan about how I've bought high and am selling low with this terrible school I'm attending.

kisses!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Hazard on November 19, 2008, 03:44:53 PM
Epstein to NYU... I want my tuition money back, this school is a sinking ship.

In name only (although I guess name is important). Nothing about his schedule actually changes with the "move". For a long time now Epstein has been doing fall at NYU, winter at Hoover, and Spring at Chicago (with a couple exceptions here and there). This doesn't change anything in that sense. As for why it happened, apparently NYU made him an offer he couldn't refuse (basically buying his citation count).


I think that statement is what bugs me about the situation. If it really changes nothing it means that the school was unable/unwilling to pony up enough money/perks/whatever to keep him here in name. Whether it should be this way or not, rankings matter and I wouldn't be surprised to see ours continue to fall. This is disappointing and I'd like to see something done about it.

Don't want to post it on LSD, but there was a perk NYU offered that (a) I doubt we could match and (b) I probably wouldn't match even if we could.

It sure doesn't help that his kids are in New York.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 19, 2008, 08:42:07 PM
Strahi is a rising star in Property and IP.  He's like a young Lessig, with a lot of interest in the Internet and property rights on there.  He's quoted in our Property book twice, which is pretty amazing considering his age and publication record.

He's also my favorite professor.

I don't know much about Gersen's publication record, but I heard that he is a lot closer to PolSci in research, because of his PhD. in that field.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 19, 2008, 10:07:35 PM
"It would have been totally incredible to be in his PhD. cohort."

Beeecaaauuuse?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 20, 2008, 01:13:02 PM
"It would have been totally incredible to be in his PhD. cohort."

Beeecaaauuuse?

He's apparently writing a paper on the concept of an "executive bundle of rights," i.e., limiting executive power by assigning different privileges/limits among multiple individuals in the executive branch. At least I think Dixon said something like that. Sounds pretty cool.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 22, 2008, 05:00:54 PM
I took a Samaha practice exam this afternoon.  I feel like someone walloped me in the head with a 2 * 4.

My understanding of summary judgment was so TTT, and I didn't even know it.  I completely froze on the Celotex question, despite the fact that I re-read it for my outline, and had to go back and read it all over.  I still don't follow all the burdens.  So the plaintiff has the burden of production, but the defendant, in Celotex, can point out that the plaintiff hadn't met that burden?  And then all inferences are drawn in the the non-moving party's, the plaintiff's, favor to see whether we can go to trial? 

And the letters that Samaha put in the exam . . . so confusing!  WTF was going on?

Baird's exams are really open-ended.  I'm saving the Buss exams for the reading period.

I took a two hour nap and everyone in New Grad is studying and sick.  I am not looking forward to Thanksgiving.  Already, it is winter.  So this is what Law School feels like.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 22, 2008, 06:31:32 PM
You may be right, but I thought that it would be good to test my knowledge and exam-taking skills.

Look up Samaha's 2007 exam, second question.  That man deserves to be called the "hammer," unless, as you suggest, we didn't develop Celotex as he did.

I need a drink. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: goaliechica on November 22, 2008, 06:38:11 PM
I still don't follow all the burdens.  So the plaintiff has the burden of production, but the defendant, in Celotex, can point out that the plaintiff hadn't met that burden?  And then all inferences are drawn in the the non-moving party's, the plaintiff's, favor to see whether we can go to trial? 

- How to Approach Summary Judgment: (Nissan Fire Framework):
    - Mover for summary judgment has initial burden of production, and
      ultimate burden of persuasion.
        - (1) Adickes - produce affirmative evidence negating a central
          element of the non-moving party's claim or defense. OR
        - (2) Celotex - show that the non-moving party does not have
          enough evidence to carry its ultimate burden of persuasion at
          trial.
        - Moving party can attach affidavits (but doesn't have to),
          depositions, requests for admission, answers to
          interrogatories, disclosures, pleadings, discovery. Can
          sometimes admit non-admissible things.
    - If the mover meets the burden of initial production, the burden
      shifts to the non-mover. Can either:
        - (1) under 56(e) submit sufficient materials (generally should
          be admissible - affidavits or material with facts that would
          be admissible) showing that there is a genuine issue of
          material fact, or that admissible evidence is available; or
            - Rehnquist in Celotex mentions that evidence that does not
              meet 56(e) may be permitted.
            - A conclusory allegation from someone who was not a
              witness does not meet the burden of admissible evidence,
              even in a document.
        - (2) ask for more discovery under 56(f).
    - If the mover does not meet initial burden, burden never shifts
      and judgment is denied, but VERY RISKY to come back with nothing,
      in case the court determines that the burden has shifted.
    - Burden of persuasion (of the 56(c) standard) never shifts on a
      summary judgment motion.
    - Even if there is not factual dispute, must make sure the mover is
      entitled to judgment as a matter of law.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 22, 2008, 06:40:29 PM
You may be right, but I thought that it would be good to test my knowledge and exam-taking skills.

Look up Samaha's 2007 exam, second question.  That man deserves to be called the "hammer," unless, as you suggest, we didn't develop Celotex as he did.

I need a drink. 

seriously i think knowledge of black letter law is less important than studying past exams by your professor to see what they focus on. if you have buss, focus on buss's exams....the material and emphasis is almost certainly different than samaha and focusing on samaha's exams will unnecessarily stress you out.

also, i sucked at samaha's 2006 civ pro exam. but keep in mind that getting a 177 in that class is like...getting 50% of the points he wants or something (he mentions this right before the end of the class).

seriously, this is the first quarter and your grades are only like 1/8 (?) of your total from 1L year (i forget the exact percentage, but basically not super important compared to winter and spring) . my grades were significantly higher after the first quarter because i figured out what studying habits worked and what didn't. so go have a drink and do something fun to de-stress  :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: goaliechica on November 22, 2008, 06:46:03 PM
Goalie, did you have buss or baird? Just sayin'.

Of course not  :P

And I agree that working on your own professor's practice exams is much, much more useful than banging your head against someone else's, since figuring out what your own professor cares about is the most important thing. I just remembered that I had what I thought was a pretty good description of the burden-shifting in summary judgment. And apparently it's more fun to go dig up my 1L outlines than work on my 2L ones.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 22, 2008, 06:46:16 PM
Okay, so let me think about this in big picture terms.

The plaintiff wants to meet the burden of production so they can go to the jury (presuming they want a jury trial).  The defendant, which can move for SJ at any time, wants to show that there is no genuine issue of material fact and nothing for the jury to determine.

In Adickes, the mover could not show that the cop in the resturant had not colluded; the colluding cop was part of the claim (or cause of action) for discrimination.  So the non-moving pary had met the burden of production, and the jury had to decide whether there was discrimination?

In Celotex, the defendant moved for SJ because there was no clear asbestos causation.  The plaintiff attached three questionable affidavits that, yes, there was exposure to asbestos with the decedent.  SCOTUS rules that it's enough for the defendant, Celotex, to show that they the plaintiff did not meet the burden of production with the three affidavits (an absence).  In judgment as a matter of law, there was no reasonable trier of fact with the affidavits that a jury could say, "Yes, asbestos from Celotex caused the decedent's death."  

This is so much simpler on paper.  On the exams, I tend to freeze and feel lost.  But I may be missing a lot here.

Thank you, goaliechica.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 22, 2008, 06:49:05 PM
Goalie, did you have buss or baird? Just sayin'.

How's everyone doing this balmy Saturday night? I was hoping to see the new Bond movie (too much out-late-ness last night), but everyone bailed on me tonight.

I finished the memo, so I'm in the same boat.  I'm going to go eat at Subway and continue frustrating the purpose of the carefree fall quarter.

clariel: I want to do well in CivPro because it's, like, my baby.  I loathe the endless policy and navel gazing in classes like Torts and I'm bored by Property, but CivPro is something I look forward to.

Plus, I was an English major bum, and I don't see how I'm not doing litigation.  I don't even know what "private equity" means, much less what a lawyer does with it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 22, 2008, 06:49:41 PM
Goalie, did you have buss or baird? Just sayin'.

How's everyone doing this balmy Saturday night? I was hoping to see the new Bond movie (too much out-late-ness last night), but everyone bailed on me tonight.

i am in a food coma from the awesome ribs at calypso cafe. i may have a gin and tonic. i could study, but meh.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 22, 2008, 06:52:08 PM
I deactivated my facebook.  Best decision I've made in a while.  I was twice as productive -- easily.

Calypso cafe is so good and tempting, but so far.  Am I hungry enough to walk the seven blocks on this cold, cold night?  I always get the Jerk Chicken sandwich; I should try their ribs.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on November 22, 2008, 06:54:15 PM
I deactivated my facebook.  Best decision I've made in a while.  I was twice as productive -- easily.

Calypso cafe is so good and tempting, but so far.  Now you make me hungry enough to walk the seven blocks.  I always get the Jerk Chicken sandwich; I should try their ribs.

it's frickin amazing. their ribs fall off the bone. i always get a full rack and finish them every time. plus they have fun drinks.

and i understand about civ pro. i liked civ pro II much better (and incidentally, did much better in that class) but i understand how people like it vs. torts or property.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 23, 2008, 12:04:03 PM
At least the Bear's game doesn't look like it will be a big distraction unless their defense decides to give up in the second half.   Stupid memo...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 23, 2008, 01:22:03 PM
Quote
Stupid memo...

Yes ;/
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 11:17:12 AM
Just took the 1997 Elements exam for practice.  It's amazing how little the course has changed under Strauss.  Everything fit perfectly into what we're doing.  Before taking the exam, I might as well have been listening to the Spice Girls and following the exploits of Diana.  This would explain why Strauss seems to know every single argument and counter-argument by heart.

My exam is 15 pages, double-spaced, and 3,455 words, but I still have 45 minutes to do it.  Am I missing anything?  How long are these things usually?  Damn

I'm going to look at the formal memo in a minute.  I am very nervous.

I'll be in Room A till 1.  If anyone wants to get food or discuss Elements, feel free to visit me.  On Friday, I'll take the 2007 CivPro exam.

ETA: I tried to infuse it with sarcasm, because I was so bored.  Here's a typical passage:

Central to Mansfield’s plan is opinion writing.  When judges write opinions, they are porously straddling the border of technical and practical knowledge.  Technical knowledge is the law, because it is codified in a book such that anyone can look it up.  Meanwhile, practical knowledge is the application of the law.  It is learned from experience, clerkships, and practice.  (Why else would we say, one might argue, that one “practices” law?)  Under the Mansfield Plan, the sentencing judge could have his discretion cake and eat it, too.  While the discretion preferred by some legislators will still be there, it will be buttressed by technical reasons and allow for predictability.  Potential criminals could go into a lawyer’s office, as Holmes would approve, and say, “Yo, lawyer.  What if I rob a liquor store tonight?  What can I expect if me and my boys are caught?”  The lawyer will look up the technical rules and then see how they have been modified as of late by SCOTUS and the lower court.  Then he or she could advise accordingly.

Good, bad, ugly?  I'll probably have to tone it down for the real final.  Doing these exams is pretty boring, though.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 12:10:38 PM
Are any of you applying to firms for the summer?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 12:59:21 PM
Are any of you applying to firms for the summer?

Yes.  Why?

By the way, who are you and ulpian?  I'm extremely curious.  I know every U of Cer on LSD except for you two.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 01:29:00 PM
Well I ask because some of the firms list a day other than 12/01 as the day for 1Ls to apply, so I was planning to send them in the day they specify (12/15, 01/2009, etc) but I wanted to see if that's what other people were doing.  Also, are you emailing anything?  I don't know what firms prefer.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 01:31:31 PM
I'm emailing everything.  One of my classmates (just called her) is at Office Max, buying fancy resume paper and laminated envelopes, but I think that's a little over-the-top.

Are you from a secondary market?  Where are you targeting?

My dream job is to work for the DoJ, so I'm mostly doing this as a perfunctory thing, but I guess it's worth a shot.

Does anyone still in town want to go get Calypso tonight?  I've been set on this plan for a while now.  I'm hopefully going with four other people from New Grad.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 02:11:24 PM
Hmm . . . I think I know who ulpian is, then.  The number is fairly limited.  Are either of them from North Carolina?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 02:37:53 PM
Hmmmm.  I generally prefer email, but mail merge almost makes it easier to mail everything.  I am sending stuff to Chicago firms and then a few other markets where I have (tenuous) connections.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 02:40:27 PM
WTF is mail merge?  I don't even know why you would use it.  I just find the right e-mail addresses and then send them out one at a time.

If you're from Chicago, I have a pretty good idea of who you might be.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 02:48:52 PM
Mail merge lets you select all the firms you want to apply to from the NALP directory and auto-fill all the contact and firm information into your cover letter and envelope labels.  If I email, I'll have to look up all the email addresses individually, like you did.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 03:28:38 PM
Mail merge lets you select all the firms you want to apply to from the NALP directory and auto-fill all the contact and firm information into your cover letter and envelope labels.  If I email, I'll have to look up all the email addresses individually, like you did.

Can you explain how one would do it?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 04:09:54 PM
It's actually pretty easy.  In the NALP directory you checkmark all the firms you want then click on the disk icon to save them all to one list.  Then once you have a list of all the firms you're applying to you click the envelope icon and save the file.  From there I followed the directions in the OCS manual, which you can read online on the chalk site if you don't have your copy with you.  It's page 68 or 69, something like that.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 06:48:22 PM
AC1L - are you applying only to the firms that say they hire 1Ls?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: lawschoolcpa on November 26, 2008, 07:37:42 PM
Are you all crazy?  Even Vault 20 law firms are conducting layoffs (stealth and open), cutting bonuses, and cutting summer classes.  What do you think the other firms that traditionally hire 1L's from top schools are going to do?  Don't waste your time going for a firm job 1L summer, cause this year there are going to be NONE.

Spend your time studying for your exams...you'd better do well or when OCI comes around you are screwing yourself even more, since next fall OCI will be even more limited than in years past.  If you absolutely must, send some solicitations out after finals.  BUT GET GOOD GRADES.  You won't be sorry.

Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 08:07:17 PM
lawschoolcpa: Chicago exams aren't like exams at NYU.  Instead of four or five finals worth 1/2 of our 1L grades, we have two finals (one of which you can't study) for 15% of our 1L grades.

hipcathobbes: I don't think anyone was under the delusion that they would find 1L firm work.  I'm arguably the biggest firm striver in our class and even I knew that, barring a miracle or amazing connection, my efforts would probably be fruitless.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 08:25:57 PM
I think it's kinda interesting that the State Attorney's Office recruits as far away as Philly schools, but doesn't go to U of C.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 08:29:48 PM
Oh I definitely don't plan on getting a firm job, and it's not even one of my top choices.  But I DO plan on biglaw after graduation, and some of the markets I'm interested in require a genuinely conveyed interest and a real connection to the area.  Even if nothing comes out of it this year, I don't think it'll hurt me to have established as a 1L that I'm interested in working for that firm/in that area.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 08:31:58 PM
So you're not from North Carolina and not from Chicago, and you may have played squash with hipcathobbes?  This is going to be tough.  You're not from Rochester by any chance, are you? 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 08:44:07 PM
I never said I wasn't from Chicago.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 08:52:09 PM
Guy or girl?

If it's guy, I have a pretty good idea.  From Chicago, plays squash.  Not hard.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 09:05:49 PM
I never said where I was from.  It's probably unfair, since I know who all of you are. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 09:44:49 PM
Psh.  You don't know who I am.

Are your initials AH?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 10:06:47 PM
You've said enough things throughout the year that it was pretty easy to tell who you were. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 10:17:18 PM
I doubt it.  Deliberately, I hardly ever talk in class, and my group of friends is limited to New Grad people.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 26, 2008, 10:28:10 PM
Well, the fact that you've said you live in New Grad already limits who you could be to about 15 people. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 10:31:37 PM
Yeah, 15 people is a lot.  And I'm pretty sure that non-NG people don't know who we are, because I get asked that question all the time.  ("Who lives in New Grad besides you?")

If you're also in NG, that would creep me out.  I talk about LSD all the time with NG people and they always seem ignorant; I would be extremely surprised if anyone was playing dumb.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 26, 2008, 10:48:49 PM
Damn Lions... If nothing else, growing up in Michigan teaches you how to deal well with perpetual disappointment.  Also, apparently Kyle Orton drives a Prius...

Ah, ha.  I think I know who you are now.  Michigan + Regents = Pretty easy.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 27, 2008, 10:59:10 PM
What did I say at the exam session that was so memorable?  I got a slew of comments on it IRL.  Strange.   ???  Maybe people are starting to think that I'm somewhat of a striver.

I ate Thanksgiving over at Regent's with a few people.  It was a good time.  But now I'm hungry again, and can't sleep, and I have to deal with my health insurance provider and practice exams in the morning.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 28, 2008, 02:21:59 PM
What exam session was this? Was it any good? Send me the notes. $1.99.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 28, 2008, 03:01:08 PM
What exam session was this? Was it any good? Send me the notes. $1.99.

It was a lunch session on Tuesday with Buss and Baird.  I will summarize for free:  Do not freak out.  Do not stop doing the things you enjoy (exercising, sleeping, etc.).  Make an outline.  Take practice tests.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 28, 2008, 03:08:03 PM
Baird said that he uses a checklist to grade.  Even a cursory look at one of his exams will tell you that.  He is also a sloucher, as the panel taught me.  The man does not sit straight up in his chair!

I see that the summarize-the-panel market has been cornered by finderskeepers.  I guess the name is apt.  Nevertheless, I could use $2*, and, should anyone desire, I would be willing to send you my over-elaborate panel notes (with lolcat doodles in the margins!).

I took the 2007 Buss exam today and totally missed an issue, as well as chronological stuff, but I have faith that I will improve.  Also, I compared my exam to the memo, and she said that the memo is what the comprehensive exam answer might look like.  The actual answers were surprisingly girlie.  She likes dry wit and exclamation points.  I should probably learn how to write like a girl!!!

 :-*

* Anti-commodification, information asymmetries, moralisms.  FOC.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 28, 2008, 03:17:51 PM
Fellow New Grad resident: "You're not on LSD, are you?"
Me: "Ugh . . . yes."
NG resident: "And you're not posting on the 2011 thread, are you?"
Me: "Ugh . . . yeah.  ACL 1L."
NG resident: "Ha, I thought it was you."

Why am I so transparent?  I guess the New Grad tag sticks.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 28, 2008, 03:43:42 PM
The actual answers were surprisingly girlie.  She likes dry wit and exclamation points.  I should probably learn how to write like a girl!!!

I've never heard dry wit characterized as "girly" before.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 28, 2008, 04:01:32 PM
Quote
Why am I so transparent?

Because you're a character.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 28, 2008, 10:33:55 PM
I didn't think you could see me from your vantage point, and my tone was somber and deliberate.  I can't recall jumping out of my seat for anything, much less that boring panel.

I'm drinking egg nog right now.  It is so f-ing good.  Egg nog with whiskey is my favorite Winter drink.

Tuna sandwich, eh?  I figured so much, Mr. Eastern Seaboard.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 28, 2008, 10:38:33 PM
Kings of Leon are so underrated.  I wish I could see them live. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFM6gDvkfJk&feature=related
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 29, 2008, 02:58:08 PM
What exam session was this? Was it any good? Send me the notes. $1.99.

It was kinda a waste of time. Very common-sense exam tips.

I came in late, belly full of tuna sandwich. I shouldn't have rushed to finish it.

Yeah, I've actually skipped all of the academic tip sessions because I assumed something along these lines. Good to know my intuition was right for once.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 03:06:21 PM
Oh, please, and miss trenchant insights such as these:

"This isn't a memory test.  We're not trying to extract any obscure info out of you."

"Outlines are really helpful because you can look up a rule in case you forgot it.  Actually, you should always look up a rule, anyway."

"Do what you do normally, but more.  If you exercise for one hour, exercise for two.  If you like watching TV, watch more.  Don't change your routine for these exams."

"Nobody has ever asked for my transcript."  (Ugh . . . maybe it's because you were on the Stanford Law Review, silly?  Thanks for misleading everyone.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 29, 2008, 03:35:07 PM
Oh, please, and miss trenchant insights such as these:

"This isn't a memory test.  We're not trying to extract any obscure info out of you."

"Outlines are really helpful because you can look up a rule in case you forgot it.  Actually, you should always look up a rule, anyway."

"Do what you do normally, but more.  If you exercise for one hour, exercise for two.  If you like watching TV, watch more.  Don't change your routine for these exams."

"Nobody has ever asked for my transcript."  (Ugh . . . maybe it's because you were on the Stanford Law Review, silly?  Thanks for misleading everyone.)

*frantically transcribes* MORE, MORE!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 29, 2008, 04:07:28 PM
Ah, but what if the Michigan thing was all a clever deception to keep a pseudonym, or something like that...  Go Blue Devils?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 04:09:20 PM
No, you're pretty obvious, dood.  Flag football as well . . . please.   :P

I'm annoyed with a CivPro teacher whose name rhymes with "herd" for having the audacity to mislead us with the "grades don't matter" comment.  It would be one thing if he said, "Hey, guys, you're at Chicago, so you can always work for some TTT firm if your grades suck," but telling everyone that grades don't matter is irresponsible.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 04:15:34 PM
I've taken three of Strauss's exams at this point, and I can see why people think your Elements grade is arbitrary.  The guy expects you to be a mind-reader.  In the 1999 exam, he wanted three things in a statute interpretation, including a hypothetical in which the plain language was clearly violated and one in which it was met.  How the F am I supposed to know that?  It's not like we spent class time brainstorming hypotheticals.

My exams are also somewhat analytical laundry list, which he doesn't like.  I'm going to have improve the concise thing.  He likes exams that dig deep into the facts, rather than merely analyzing issues as they're presented to you, and that's hard.

To top off the difficulty level, he plays shell games, but so does Buss.  In the 1997 exam, he asks for rules vs. discretion and actually argues that it's a FOC argument in the memo; "the judge has discretion.  he's not asking you whether to give it up."  Buss plays a shell game with the summary judgment and unreviewable element in the 2007 exam, but her games aren't as misleading.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 29, 2008, 04:17:27 PM
I dunno, i kinda figure he realizes that we all are gonna put the legwork in anyway, so anything that keeps students at this University from jumping off of buildings is a good thing.  I sure wish my laptop wouldn't have died the weekend zapping my last two weeks of outlines and notes though, make sure to back everything you own up fellow intertube dwellers. . .
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 04:25:22 PM
Purposivism FTW.

I think people will put in the leg work in different ways, with different abilities to comprehend the big picture and what's truly expected of us.  (It sure as hell is not these idiotic briefs that are a waste of everyone's time.)  I expected him to clarify things such as:

-- what makes for a good analytical answer
-- how to organize your paper
-- how much policy you should add
-- how s/he grades (checklist, overall impression, IRAC-styling)
-- how important is your prose?  can you write poorly and do well in terms of content?
-- who is finderskeepers?

I tried to press the issue(s), but they were evasive.  Great.   :-\
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 04:34:44 PM
Personally, I think it's patronizing for former SCOTUS clerks to organize a panel that tells us nothing and, if anything, lulls us into a false sense of comfort (especially IN THIS ECONOMY, when people at the bottom of the curve and even the middle could face unemployment), but nobody cares about my opinion.

After taking a few of these exams, I've lost a lot of my respect for this backward profession that overemphasizes the ability to spew out quick-witted prose about a few issues.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 29, 2008, 04:49:13 PM
I thought he handled those pretty well.  I mean, he made it pretty clear that style is minimally important (if at all, follow the narrative style of questions, as thats the way he intends us to think of the problems.  It makes sense, I mean, trials are basically long and boring stories, so just start running with the narrative arc wherever he drops you and with whatever limitations he throws in.)   He probably will like you more if your prose and grammar are flawless (English majors...), but it is mostly irrelevant for the grades.  Grading is most likely a hybrid checklist\impression.   I'm sure he has a bunch of black letter points and goofy problems written down, so you get points for picking up the black-letter, and for putting down pretty much any halfway-convincing argument for the goofy points that reason by analogy from stuff we went over.  Policy seems kind of irrelevant, all of the questions i've looked at (not many) are putting you roughly in the shoes of an advocate, and thats the way he teaches his class, so if you touch on policy at all it would be in the way you might bring it up as a side point to an argument in convincing a judge.  

I hate IRAC, i see its purpose and all of that, but outside of memos, it seems like a cumbersome style that should die a slow and painful death.  Also, anyone else up for playoff beards for finals?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 29, 2008, 04:55:06 PM
Also, no one here is going unemployed unless they have a negative or hostile personality.  Its not gonna be fun and roses at the big firms like the last couple of years have been, but the bottom of the class is still going to get a real legal job (unless your grades consistently across 1L are complete abhorrent, which seems pretty hard as long as you put the work in).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 29, 2008, 05:05:02 PM
Quote
I'm annoyed with a CivPro teacher whose name rhymes with "herd"

You're mispronouncing his name, mang!

And I just figured out who ulpian is. I've got horrible detective skills.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 29, 2008, 06:47:33 PM
Purposivism FTW.

I think people will put in the leg work in different ways, with different abilities to comprehend the big picture and what's truly expected of us.  (It sure as hell is not these idiotic briefs that are a waste of everyone's time.)  I expected him to clarify things such as:

-- what makes for a good analytical answer
-- how to organize your paper
-- how much policy you should add
-- how s/he grades (checklist, overall impression, IRAC-styling)
-- how important is your prose?  can you write poorly and do well in terms of content?
-- who is finderskeepers?

I tried to press the issue(s), but they were evasive.  Great.   :-\

Well, I doubt they would have been able to help you with your last question, but I agree that the session would have been more useful if they'd answered any of the others.  I guess they were going more for general reassurance than specific preparations.

I don't think either professor was trying to be patronizing when they said grades don't matter, but it does sort of ring false to say they don't matter, when obviously both professors thought grades mattered enough to make sure they got good ones when they were in school.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 06:50:36 PM
Quote
I'm annoyed with a CivPro teacher whose name rhymes with "herd"

You're mispronouncing his name, mang!

And I just figured out who ulpian is. I've got horrible detective skills.

What about finderskeepers?  Any clue?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 06:52:51 PM
Your initials aren't AB by any chance, are they?

No hints?  This is unfair.  You know us.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 06:58:00 PM
LSD meet-up at Jimmy's in an hour?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 29, 2008, 07:00:33 PM
Quote
I'm annoyed with a CivPro teacher whose name rhymes with "herd"

You're mispronouncing his name, mang!

And I just figured out who ulpian is. I've got horrible detective skills.

What about finderskeepers?  Any clue?

Now you know I'm all about confidentiality. I'm also out of state till Monday, so no Jimmy's for me. Alas.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 29, 2008, 07:10:17 PM
I'm sure you'll figure out who I am eventually the more I post.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 08:41:06 PM
I can't decide whether to do homework for Torts and Property this week, or not.  I really don't feel like it.  Even if I get called on, who cares?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on November 29, 2008, 10:22:33 PM
It's so painful and embarrassing when someone gets called on who hasn't done the reading.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 11:01:06 PM
Dude, I had just deleted that when you quoted it.   :(

I didn't refer to myself specifically, though I guess the off-putting suggestion was there.  The comment was a general warning that people who don't do well in class could still do very well on the test, but I'm sure everyone already knows that fact.  (Hence the deletion.)  Personally, I think that class participation is almost entirely worthless in certain classes (e.g., Gersen), and I don't fault anyone for not being able to follow, not reading, or even not caring.  I settled on the Abrahams book and an outline a long time ago, and I haven't really looked back.  I don't even bring my casebook to class sometimes.

I've spent the last few weeks puffing myself up largely because of stress.  Don't take the online nonsense too seriously.  Anyone who speaks to me in real life probably realizes that the persona on here is quite different.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 29, 2008, 11:05:12 PM
For the record, I agree with you.  The more bad info is out there, the better for the well-prepared LSDers who have spent every waking hour trying to figure out how to read between the lines in Law School.  However, I am still disturbed by such rubbish being spouted by someone who is obviously not looking out for our best interest.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on November 29, 2008, 11:42:00 PM
Give me your keyboard. Friends don't let friends type prematurely.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on November 30, 2008, 06:26:14 PM
I kind of enjoy Gersen's manic lectures.  I have no idea how much of the ex post/ante stuff we'll need for the exam, but I definitely get a lot more out of class on that than the obscure law review-ish snippets from the book.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 11, 2008, 09:55:04 PM
In case any of the other 1Ls are reading this, good luck.  Big day tomorrow.  This is it: what all the training, and practice exams, and socratic, and sleepless nights have lead us to.  I feel like this is the first day of law school.  4 realz.

A nice 2L reassured me by saying that, "Glannon + practice exams (under timed conditions, with careful readings of the memos/student answers) + casebook reading and class participation + 20 page outline with all the rules = at least median, if not most likely above."  I thought that was reassuring to hear.

I'm also going to steal a line from Bosco: GO JETS!  J-E-T-S.

Whatever happens, I want you to all know that I trust we'll all get decent jobs, or improve next quarter, or live out a satisfying life on a deserted island with a monkey butler named "Peanuts."

Sincerely,

Guy Who Never Talked in Class, and Never Stopped Talking Outside of It
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 13, 2008, 05:38:09 PM
I am going to get so drunk tonight.

(and study elements)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on December 13, 2008, 05:56:11 PM
You haven't ignored precedent until you've ignored precedent while drunk.


(I hear thats what Cardozo used to do)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on December 13, 2008, 06:47:41 PM
I am going to get so drunk tonight.

(and study elements)

Psh, studying for Elements is wasting time. Well, at least for Sunstein it was. Just walk in and wax philosophical about the law for two hours.

Okay, this might be a little overstatement, but I did find it really hard to find anything reasonable to study for for Elements. So, I didn't study near as much as for Civ Pro. Then, I did better at Elements anyhow. *Shrug*
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 13, 2008, 07:13:52 PM
It doesn't seem to be a waste of time for Strauss.  He has 10 practice exams up, and I've taken 9 of them.  They fall into extremely predictable patterns.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 14, 2008, 07:40:40 AM
 :P

Are the 2Ls anxious about finals at all?  Even in this economy, it seems like it would be an afterthought after all the clinic/journal/moot court/RA things you do.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on December 14, 2008, 08:57:16 PM
:P

Are the 2Ls anxious about finals at all?  Even in this economy, it seems like it would be an afterthought after all the clinic/journal/moot court/RA things you do.

Nope. No exams this quarter.  :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on December 14, 2008, 09:03:31 PM
:P

Are the 2Ls anxious about finals at all?  Even in this economy, it seems like it would be an afterthought after all the clinic/journal/moot court/RA things you do.

Nope. No exams this quarter.  :)

hate. hate. hate. more hate. as i'm a 3L, i'm supposed to not really care, but i'm a perfectionist, so this last week has been hell.

1Ls, because i'm an idiot, i basically did three classes every quarter last year. this was a horrible decision that has resulted in my having four classes and four finals this quarter (because i need the units to graduate) and next quarter. i have evidently forgotten how to do four finals a quarter and i've also had messed up laptop (with occasionally malfunctioning space-bar) and dead car battery. for the love of god, take more classes 2L year and learn how to take classes that don't require exams so you won't be me.

/end rant. i still have two more to go.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 14, 2008, 09:19:28 PM
Hmm . . . I just realized I misread the 2006 Elements exam and made some silly assumptions that lead me astray.  Too bad he doesn't have a memo.

I'm surprisingly nervous about tomorrow's exam -- more than CivPro.  I think that the curve will be pretty tough for Strauss.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on December 14, 2008, 09:19:28 PM
Claire, why'd you only take 3 classes/quarter last year?

well first quarter i had a seminar and three classes. winter, i was music director for the law school musical and figured that would take up a lot of time (it did). spring, i had this idea that i would write my substantial paper for my winter class that i took (however, since she gave us all extensions until the last possible due date in may 2009, again, that did not happen).  thank god one of my spring classes was one substantial out of the way.....
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on December 15, 2008, 02:15:26 AM
I only took 9 credits this quarter.  A bunch of older students recommended that first quarter 2L is a good time to take a lighter courseload cause of interviewing, journal stuff, etc.  Made sense to me.

Me too.  I got lucky with my classes - two seminars (one I'm totally done, the other I have to edit blog posts I had to do over the quarter and submit on Wednesday), a class that I'm doing a substantial for, and a workshop which is year-long, and also for a substantial.  Hopefully I won't have to do substantials 3L after all this.

but if it makes you guys feel better, I'm leaving for home in a few hours, and home is currently at -20 degrees
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 15, 2008, 11:11:54 AM
That was crap.  I am pretty pissed.  He's going to have to do some henious differentiation among students.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on December 15, 2008, 11:29:28 AM
That was crap.  I am pretty pissed.  He's going to have to do some henious differentiation among students.

You're mad because it was too easy?

Sweetie, drink champagne and shut up.  Seriously.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 15, 2008, 12:07:03 PM
That was crap.  I am pretty pissed.  He's going to have to do some henious differentiation among students.

You're mad because it was too easy?

Sweetie, drink champagne and shut up.  Seriously.

Isn't that a better reason than it was too hard?  There were probably some twists in there, as hipcathobbes ventured, but he'll probably have to make some arbitrary distinctions between students.

I agree with the drinking champagne and shutting up.  I'm definitely living up to what the party e-mail said.  But.  But.  A 3L told me you guys got a party after first quarter, with champagne and mimosas, and we don't because Dixon scheduled a later exam.  (And possibly the economy.)

ETA: If this wasn't on a curve, like in undergrad, I obviously wouldn't be complaining about ease.  But I feel like he also threw us for a loop because his 05, 06, and even 07 practice exams were at least moderately difficult.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 15, 2008, 12:14:12 PM
Are any non-1Ls going to Regents party?  Should be a good time.   :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on December 15, 2008, 12:27:17 PM
Dixon gave a take-home exam for elements? Ouch. That means half the 1L class is (or at least should be) drunk before the other half is even done with exams. And, as you say, this means no cheap law school champagne.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on December 15, 2008, 12:29:05 PM
Dixon gave a take-home exam for elements? Ouch. That means half the 1L class is (or at least should be) drunk before the other half is even done with exams. And, as you say, this means no cheap law school champagne.

That stuff is killer.  Go to Jimmy's for cheap ass drinks.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 15, 2008, 12:30:42 PM
I might.  I'm nursing a Corona right now.  I should probably get some food soon.

The funny thing is that, one door down, someone in Dixon's class is working very hard on their exam.  It's an odd juxtaposition, and I'm somewhat nettled that we don't get champagne and a party.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on December 16, 2008, 05:25:31 PM
I AM PEEVED BY LACK OF SCHOOL-SPONSORED MIMOSAS!!! >:(

that was so sweet. we finished and there were all these signs.. "1Ls come this way for a surprise!". and there was dean richardson, passing out mimosas.

keep in mind, this was pre-beer pong wine mess fiasco in the winter of my 1L year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 16, 2008, 05:28:52 PM
I AM PEEVED BY LACK OF SCHOOL-SPONSORED MIMOSAS!!! >:(

that was so sweet. we finished and there were all these signs.. "1Ls come this way for a surprise!". and there was dean richardson, passing out mimosas.

keep in mind, this was pre-beer pong wine mess fiasco in the winter of my 1L year.

Do tell, please.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on December 16, 2008, 05:35:57 PM
I AM PEEVED BY LACK OF SCHOOL-SPONSORED MIMOSAS!!! >:(

that was so sweet. we finished and there were all these signs.. "1Ls come this way for a surprise!". and there was dean richardson, passing out mimosas.

keep in mind, this was pre-beer pong wine mess fiasco in the winter of my 1L year.

Do tell, please.

i wasn't there so i only heard about it via dean richardson's email (which i wish i had saved because it was pretty funny). basically, at a wine mess, some people decided to play beer pong. things got out of hand (probably people got too drunk and made a lot of noise/were being super rowdy) and either the dean or some professors got all freaked out because TECHNICALLY, i think we're not supposed to have alcohol at the law school, probably for liability reasons. after that, she sent out this email about how beer pong was inappropriate and i think there was some concern that year about serving alcohol at the musical (which, thankfully, we were still able to do...75% of the musical's enjoyment factor is that everyone watching and participating is drinking).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on December 17, 2008, 10:22:20 PM
Are any of you planning to get work done over break?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on December 17, 2008, 10:35:24 PM
I intend to get a long-standing project mostly completed over break, so I no longer have to endure its stares at me from the corner of my hard drive.

I'm assuming this isn't class related?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on December 18, 2008, 12:24:58 AM
1Ls have work over break!?

Or do you just mean outlining or something for Torts and Property (which would be pretty premature, but that's me)? Or applying for jobs I guess...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on December 18, 2008, 09:19:05 AM
I definitely have to do job stuff, but, yeah, I meant outlining.  I've heard a lot of people talking about it, but I'm not feeling motivated to do it myself.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on December 18, 2008, 12:02:50 PM
I brought my books home over winter break and never took them out of my car.

So I recommend not making the effort and just leaving them here.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on December 18, 2008, 01:57:39 PM
I brought my books home over winter break and never took them out of my car.

So I recommend not making the effort and just leaving them here.


+1

I outlined a little over spring break, but none over Xmas. Read a book, watch TV, sleep, do anything but study.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 18, 2008, 06:01:38 PM
I definitely have to do job stuff, but, yeah, I meant outlining.  I've heard a lot of people talking about it, but I'm not feeling motivated to do it myself.

Are you currently in Hyde Park?

I'm pretty sure that me and another kid I just talked to are the only ones.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on December 18, 2008, 07:20:11 PM
I definitely have to do job stuff, but, yeah, I meant outlining.  I've heard a lot of people talking about it, but I'm not feeling motivated to do it myself.

Are you currently in Hyde Park?

I'm pretty sure that me and another kid I just talked to are the only ones.

I am not in Hyde Park.  (Thankfully.)  People were talking about outlining over break before first quarter was over.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on December 18, 2008, 07:37:53 PM
People might talk about outlining over break.  Perhaps even a very few do.

BUT OH DEAR LORD YOU SHOULD NOT.

Why do you people not get this?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on December 18, 2008, 07:58:03 PM
People might talk about outlining over break.  Perhaps even a very few do.

BUT OH DEAR LORD YOU SHOULD NOT.

Why do you people not get this?

I hadn't really thought about it until people started talking about it. I guess the only reason I'm thinking about doing it is because I literally have nothing else to do.  I've never really gotten a winter break before, so I feel like I have way too much downtime. 

Also, for torts, I'm so lost.  I just have no idea what's going on and I can't even think about it coherently.  So I thought maybe going back over first quarter would help me?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 18, 2008, 09:48:56 PM
I'm with sillyberry on this one.  If you haven't already finished outlining first quarter of torts and property by now, it's a lost cause anyway.  Might as well enjoy your break.

Huh?

I plan to read a bunch of hornbooks, because Gersen's class is totally useless for BLL.

Also, Hyde Park over the winter is the very definition of TTT.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on December 18, 2008, 10:16:30 PM
What? You're joking, right?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on December 18, 2008, 10:18:41 PM
I plan to read a bunch of hornbooks, because Gersen's class is totally useless for BLL.

Gersen's class teaches you everything you need to know for Gersen's test. He definitely did not ask anything that was not covered in class on his test. (I studied no hornbooks for Torts, and did not need to.)

Which is to say, that the only black letter law you need to know is in the book, in the assigned readings. (A few restatements or something.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on December 18, 2008, 11:47:13 PM
Strahi shed tears for the class of 2009.

We didn't get tears last year.

We got an inexplicably long Matrix analogy.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 19, 2008, 06:06:33 AM
Unequivocally wrong.  On the first day, Gersen named a hornbook that could be useful, and Levmore, of course, published a hornbook.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on December 19, 2008, 09:30:08 AM
And the Levmore book -- I assume you mean Foundations of Tort Law -- is not a hornbook but rather a collection of law & economics essays about tort law.

Sounds like Levmore's class. Your days of learning "black-letter law" in torts (whatever that means) are over. From now on, just stop saying duty and start saying least cost avoider. Or maybe defer to the legislature.

Buying a hornbook for Levmore's section would be laughable, since he doesn't really teach you torts anyhow.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 19, 2008, 09:53:56 AM
And the Levmore book -- I assume you mean Foundations of Tort Law -- is not a hornbook but rather a collection of law & economics essays about tort law.

Sounds like Levmore's class. Your days of learning "black-letter law" in torts (whatever that means) are over. From now on, just stop saying duty and start saying least cost avoider. Or maybe defer to the legislature.

Buying a hornbook for Levmore's section would be laughable, since he doesn't really teach you torts anyhow.

Oh, crap.  There goes my Torts grade.  I guess it's good to know that now.  I'll bring my laptop and try to outline that class next quarter.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 19, 2008, 04:03:40 PM
Hahahahaha. "I hate policy! Restatements and hornbooks are all that matter!" It's the end of an era.

It is pretty nasty out right now. We're getting pummeled with snow that apparently hit Chicago earlier?

You probably know that this is my strategy, and it did seem to work pretty well for CivPro*, and, according to 2Ls/3Ls, Strahi's Property.  We'll see how the rest of law school develops.

I'm sitting in the law library right now.  The snow wasn't that bad, but it was still nasty.

* Pretty well as in I didn't feel disadvantaged on the exam, but we'll see.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 19, 2008, 04:11:22 PM
Yeah, but you studied policy, IIRC.  As a former English major, my real passion is for taking a rule, no matter how arbitrary, and analyzing it to death.  I never question its parameters and assumptions so much as I love the whole "defendant will argue that the employee was an independent contractor, therefore no respondent superior.  plaintiff will argue, based on ten factor test, that employer had enough control and reliance over the newspaper boy for it.  you could cite . . . " shtick.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 19, 2008, 10:29:59 PM
::outlining bump::

In retrospect, collateral and essential fraud is more important to intentional torts than I ever realized.  It even makes a strong showing in Desnick, which seems to turn on it, no?  (I mean, besides the public benefit b.s. of the opinion.)

Hopefully, I'll be well into duty by Sunday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7bVD_DkM4
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on December 20, 2008, 02:17:41 PM
Outlining.... I'm just excited I can do not-law things for a whole two weeks.  I plan on starting my outlines a lot earlier for this quarter so the weeks before finals are less intense, but I feel like your inviting the crazy by using your free time now to do extra studying. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on December 20, 2008, 02:35:57 PM
Every quarter I tell myself I'll start outlines prior to a week or two before finals. So far, I never have. And every quarter, I do fine in spite of my lateness in starting to outline.

(For me, outlining is useful more to learn the material than for the outline itself. And if I learned the material 3 months prior to a final, I would just need to relearn it for the final anyhow. this is how I rationalized at least. Not that I can outline 3 months prior now, since classes haven't even begun yet.)

In related news, I plan to forget about the law entirely for a couple weeks. So far, so good.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 20, 2008, 02:39:27 PM
I agree with both your points, but Torts is the type of class that requires a lot of review.  It's not like we'll never discuss duty again and the need for strict liability again.

Oh, wait.  I have Levmore.  Scratch that.   :(

As for not doing law related things for two weeks, I plan to do that once school starts.  I imagine that, for at least the first two weeks, I'll go out frequently and compensate for this time: Bar Review, wing night at Ida Noyes, some parties at Regents, I'm sure.  The beginning simply isn't that rigorous, and I plan to do a very poor job of reading the cases this time.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on December 21, 2008, 12:25:48 AM
For the record, you will talk about the need for strict liability again with Levmore. Mostly, its due to recurring misses.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on December 21, 2008, 05:44:08 AM
For the record, you will talk about the need for strict liability again with Levmore. Mostly, its due to recurring misses.


That's a word I haven't thought about in 6 months and I'd please ask for you to not bring it up again. :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 21, 2008, 08:51:06 AM
Does the guy just basically re-write the textbook with idiosyncratic econ terms?  How is that concept any different from the need for SL because of activity levels, location, and activities so abnormally dangerous, it doesn't seem quite fair to impose L only in negligence cases?

"Recurring misses" . . . "cost avoider" . . . Summers v. Tice.  It seems like it could be an interesting class if I had any interest whatsoever in Torts.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on December 21, 2008, 11:10:42 AM
I'm with you on reading the cases much more poorly this semester.  I finally figured out in the last couple of weeks when I started studying for exams how little you need to actually remember from the cases. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: JusAbstinendi on December 21, 2008, 11:23:42 AM
Quote
Or maybe defer to the legislature.

Active liberty!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 21, 2008, 11:56:39 AM
So how's Christmas going for everyone?  I'm kinda glad I don't celebrate it, especially this year -- what with my budget and school and all.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on December 21, 2008, 05:08:16 PM
@#!* the f-in jets....good thing I'm a giants fan

Traitor.

For once, there is silver lining in a disappointing Jets season. At least this time we can blame Brett Favre. Sure, I've always wished to inflict grievous injury on him, but now I can do it with a passion that I did not have before.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 21, 2008, 05:29:12 PM
@#!* the f-in jets....good thing I'm a giants fan

It's a good thing the Pats will win the division.  Or the Dolphins.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 21, 2008, 05:30:36 PM
Also, lmao at the notion that the Chargers could still beat the Broncos next week and win that division.  It's like an entire season of terrible football doesn't even matter!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 21, 2008, 06:52:51 PM
Can anyone tell me what POE stands for in Torts?  As in, "Although we might not normally impose liability (especially in cases where POE not met), we know that if we strictly follow the POE rule wrongdoers will never be held liable."
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on December 21, 2008, 07:07:25 PM
Can anyone tell me what POE stands for in Torts?  As in, "Although we might not normally impose liability (especially in cases where POE not met), we know that if we strictly follow the POE rule wrongdoers will never be held liable."

preponderance of evidence.  ?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 21, 2008, 08:02:23 PM
Yep.  This outline makes it seem more like a stats/econ class than a law school class.  Man, I am not looking forward to that.

Compliance errors, error minimizing, reciprocal risks, least cost avoider, Coase theorem . . . it seems like a bummer.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on December 28, 2008, 12:54:55 PM
Yep.  This outline makes it seem more like a stats/econ class than a law school class.  Man, I am not looking forward to that.

Compliance errors, error minimizing, reciprocal risks, least cost avoider, Coase theorem . . . it seems like a bummer.

i had no econ/stats training before levmore's half (except the stupid intro to stats class i had to take for my major, and i promptly forgot all of that) and i did much better on his half than gersen's; ironically coming out of that exam, i felt much better about gersen's but the fact pattern was so frickin' long that i probably missed a bunch of tort actions. levmore has a few themes that he sort of pounds on all quarter and your answers to his questions basically just apply those themes. it helps that his class is hilarious, especially when he guesses about birth order, fire extinguishers in your car, etc.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 01, 2009, 11:21:15 PM
MTG also has some really good posts. i think the best advice i can give you is to not freak out. i did first quarter and those were my lowest grades (although maybe everyone else freaked out even more than me?). even if you're in the bottom of the class, if you're not a complete doofus and don't wear sweatpants to OCI, you'll get a job.

You freaked out first quarter?   ???

<-- can't sleep, worried
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on January 02, 2009, 04:35:35 PM
MTG also has some really good posts. i think the best advice i can give you is to not freak out. i did first quarter and those were my lowest grades (although maybe everyone else freaked out even more than me?). even if you're in the bottom of the class, if you're not a complete doofus and don't wear sweatpants to OCI, you'll get a job.

You freaked out first quarter?   ???

<-- can't sleep, worried

firstly, don't freak out about freaking out. secondly, some people do really well when stressed and having daily breakdowns, but most of my best exams were actually when i was unduly calm and relaxed at the time. plus, i discovered that i am actually not as smart as i thought i was in college (and have come to accept that).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 02, 2009, 07:17:01 PM
I was totally calm and relaxed during the exams.  If we have the same tendencies, this could be a good sign.

clairel, nobody is as smart as they thought they were in college.  ;)  (Barring perhaps a Rhodes or Marshall scholarship)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 04, 2009, 09:31:05 AM
increasingly nervous about grades +
new quarter +
Dolphins over Ravens?
-------------
BUMP
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on January 12, 2009, 03:33:43 PM
Baird's grades are up, gunners away!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 13, 2009, 12:08:16 PM
Anyone want to guess when Elements grades will come out?  I'm a little more worried about that one.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on January 13, 2009, 08:38:15 PM
Strauss' FedJur grades aren't out yet either. I am still dreading their appearance.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 13, 2009, 10:47:33 PM
Should I take Masur seriously when he says that he occasionally bumps people up for good participation or reduces their grades for the opposite behavior?

I dislike talking in class.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 14, 2009, 06:20:58 AM
Should I take Masur seriously when he says that he occasionally bumps people up for good participation or reduces their grades for the opposite behavior?

I dislike talking in class.

I guess we have no real way of knowing, but I never took that seriously, and I find it hard to believe most professors would do that.  I'm not even sure all professors necessarily end up matching your name with your grade.  I know they have the opportunity to see who got what grade, but I'm not sure they're required to.  I have no idea how any of that works.

The only class I took it seriously in was Henderson's.  He seemed to make a really big deal about class participation the first day, and he claimed to make it 20% of your grade (as opposed to most profs who say they may adjust your grade slightly based on participation), and plus I just think he had a lot of personal qualities that made me think he would be the type to do that.

But my general impression is that even if some professors do make slight adjustments, it's probably only for the very few who never show up to class and the few who raise their hands every class.

That's what I thought, too.  And it might sound totally paranoid, but, on a curve, wouldn't that mean that bumping up those few people would also bump down everyone else?

Maybe it's only a point or two.

I didn't know that about Henderson.  That's good to know, because it'll make me think twice about taking Corporations next year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on January 14, 2009, 12:02:00 PM
Should I take Masur seriously when he says that he occasionally bumps people up for good participation or reduces their grades for the opposite behavior?

I dislike talking in class.

I guess we have no real way of knowing, but I never took that seriously, and I find it hard to believe most professors would do that.  I'm not even sure all professors necessarily end up matching your name with your grade.  I know they have the opportunity to see who got what grade, but I'm not sure they're required to.  I have no idea how any of that works.

The only class I took it seriously in was Henderson's.  He seemed to make a really big deal about class participation the first day, and he claimed to make it 20% of your grade (as opposed to most profs who say they may adjust your grade slightly based on participation), and plus I just think he had a lot of personal qualities that made me think he would be the type to do that.

But my general impression is that even if some professors do make slight adjustments, it's probably only for the very few who never show up to class and the few who raise their hands every class.

That's what I thought, too.  And it might sound totally paranoid, but, on a curve, wouldn't that mean that bumping up those few people would also bump down everyone else?

Maybe it's only a point or two.

I didn't know that about Henderson.  That's good to know, because it'll make me think twice about taking Corporations next year.


Definitely take Henderson, no question. He calls on people and asks them a few questions, it's no big deal. The only difference is that he marks off on his seating chart every time you answer his questions (presumably so that he doesn't miss anyone). Most profs do this, but he wanders around the room holding it so that you're much more likely to see him do it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 14, 2009, 12:50:53 PM
Ha, that's how I feel about Ks.  I hate the subject and dislike our professor.

Do most 2Ls succumb to group-think in terms of classes, or is there more logic to it?  Out of the half dozen 2Ls I talk to on a regular basis, everyone took Corporations with Henderson and Admin with Masur.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: sillyberry on January 14, 2009, 02:18:05 PM
To be fair, his "no stupid questions" was saying that there is no such thing as a stupid question, not that you shouldn't ask stupid questions.

I understand your points against mTodd, but I totally find him delightful. Still don't like the subject matter, though.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on January 14, 2009, 02:19:58 PM
I really dislike Henderson both as a professor and a human being


Did he piss in your cornflakes or what?




Haha, I think part of it was the email incident from a couple years ago....so I already came in pretty biased with the impression that he was a whiny unprofessional insecure tool who desperately needed students' approval.  But in general there wasn't some big thing he did that I hated.....I just disliked pretty much everything he said/his attitude.  For example, all from the first 10 mins of the first class....I didn't like his discussion about his brilliant slides and how they're all you ever need to know about anything, I didn't like his slide about class participation telling people not to say stupid things, I didn't like his pre-planned "Big f-ing Arrow" line (zomg you cursed you're so  cool!!), I didn't like his constant attempts to impress me with unfunny forced pop culture references, and so on.

I think it was mostly just his general attitude.....to me, some professors like Samaha, Rosenberg, etc, came across as genuinely interested in seeing their students learn (sorry if that sounds kinda corny).....Henderson came across as an insecure loser who was only interested in impressing me.

As a disclaimer for 1Ls though.....like I said I was biased coming in because of those emails, my attendance was less than exemplary, and lots of people love Henderson....so take my opinion with some huge grains of salt.


what is the email incident from a few years ago, I don't think I've heard of that.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on January 14, 2009, 10:58:20 PM
I'm in the "Henderson is AWESOME, but I wish he taught classes I was interested in more" group. I'm glad I took Corps, but I'm never going to take Secured Transactions. On the other hand, I'd love to take a small seminar with him.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 15, 2009, 12:09:03 PM
I almost called Masur "Professor Gersen" today.  They're so alike that we spent class discussing duties, and he mentioned affirmative acts; Octillo, Vesley and Cuppy v. Branch (well, I thought of them); causation; and plain language/intent readings of statutes.  Sometimes, I feel like he's trying to teach us legislation or admin rather than Crim, with all of the MPC and legality (Morales) fixations.

<-- tired

Am I the only 2011 student on LSD?  There have to be others lurking.  I'm disappointed that 2010 had such a better thread than us.

Also, about Bernstein . . . if you have nothing nice to say . . .  :-X
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on January 15, 2009, 12:42:25 PM
Bernstein's Legal Scholarship Workshop was awesome. I mean, I hear iffy things about her large lectures, but the workshop was fantastic.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 15, 2009, 03:22:33 PM
I hate to sound like a whiny pre-law who's waiting for an LSAT score, but my other courses like Torts, Property, and LRW now have "IP" listed, while my CivPro grade remains up.  Does that mean that Elements will be posted soon?

Again, I realize I'm being absolutely ridiculous, even by my standards.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on January 15, 2009, 08:51:29 PM
I hear that Dixon is done grading and is waiting for Strauss to finish his.

I hear that Strauss' FedJur grades aren't up yet either. (I hear this from my cmore page.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 15, 2009, 08:59:05 PM
I didn't have Dixon, but everyone who did (i.e., the other half of the 1L class, first quarter) said that she gave WAY WAY too much work.  I would have avoid her if I were you.

On the other hand, if you want to be challenged and meet an interesting, law-spoony new faculty member, then go for it.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Tetris on January 15, 2009, 11:49:17 PM
You guys are lucky.  We don't have ANY grades up yet.  I'm also unaware of any "soon to be released" rumors.

I'm dying over here from stress.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Slumdog Lovebutton on January 16, 2009, 12:15:10 AM
You guys are lucky.  We don't have ANY grades up yet.  I'm also unaware of any "soon to be released" rumors.

I'm dying over here from stress.

ditto here...i got nada still.  but i'm trying to enjoy this feeling of blissful ignorance for as long as it lasts.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 16, 2009, 08:23:27 AM
Bosco: would you suggest talking to professors about RAships now?  Or wait till May?  I also submitted some stuff to the clinics.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 16, 2009, 11:26:48 AM
Elements grade was more of a bummer.  (Not terrible, but not great.)  Ah, well.  Darn you, Strauss, and your philosophical introduction to law school, and your "easy" (but I think very difficult in curve terms) test that, according to older students, inversely correlates with other grades.

Does anyone agree that Elements isn't that great of a bellweather for the rest of law school?  I'm pretty disappointed.  Should I be?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on January 16, 2009, 03:14:09 PM
Does anyone agree that Elements isn't that great of a bellweather for the rest of law school?  I'm pretty disappointed.  Should I be?

My Elements grade was closer to my 1L GPA than my CivPro 1 grade was. I had Sunstein though. I think neither is a good bellweather.

As for whether you should be disappointed--probably not.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Slumdog Lovebutton on January 16, 2009, 03:20:02 PM
Elements grade was more of a bummer.  (Not terrible, but not great.)  Ah, well.  Darn you, Strauss, and your philosophical introduction to law school, and your "easy" (but I think very difficult in curve terms) test that, according to older students, inversely correlates with other grades.

Does anyone agree that Elements isn't that great of a bellweather for the rest of law school?  I'm pretty disappointed.  Should I be?

at least you've got a good one to balance it out, right?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on January 16, 2009, 06:10:11 PM
bosco--

I had Dixon for Elements and indeed, she assigned far more reading than Strauss did, but on the other hand, our class tends to know what other professors are talking about (e.g., alienability, screening, Papachristou--did Strauss do any of that?) when Strauss's class is left in the dark. So I'm glad I had her. And I think her exam was less perverse than Strauss's. I mean, it was more perverse--the required essay was on prostitution--but it didn't require students to read her mind in the way Strauss's always seem to. I also understand Dixon heard the too-much-reading message loud and clear and will be modifying future courses accordingly.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on January 17, 2009, 03:04:28 PM
Does anyone agree that Elements isn't that great of a bellweather for the rest of law school?  I'm pretty disappointed.  Should I be?

My Elements grade was closer to my 1L GPA than my CivPro 1 grade was. I had Sunstein though. I think neither is a good bellweather.

As for whether you should be disappointed--probably not.

Yeah I never really bought into the inverse correlation elements thing.  I'm sure you can find anecdotal evidence on either side though.  And I think people on this site (clairel maybe?) have said they did much better the rest of the year compared to Elements.  I wouldn't get too discouraged.  It's only 7.5% of your grade, and hopefully you can learn from it.  Plus, I'm sure you're doing fine overall.

i didn't do very well in either civ pro or elements (though slightly better in elements), but my grades were much higher the rest of the year (my lowest grade was civ pro and my highest was civ pro II. so i'm apparently not just a dunce at civ pro...). i don't know if it was just adjusting to exam administration or changing my studying techniques;  the rest of my grades weren't awesome, but my average probably went up like 2 points over the course of the year. conversely, other people's grades went down over the year, maybe from burnout or just from random professors having weird test-taking styles...in my 2.3333 years here, i've gotten grades that i thought were undeserved (both on the low and high end) just because i got lucky on some questions and some questions just didn't make much sense to me. i think, in the end, the undeserved grades have sort of evened out to a gpa i probably deserve.

and as strauss always says, no employer understands what "elements of the law" is. my interviewers basically just scanned my transcript to see basic patterns compared with other students. and for 1L jobs, grades didn't help or hurt me much. so i wouldn't worry until you get your next grades...then see if you have an upward or at least steady pattern; if not there are always academic counselors/upperclassmen who have amazing outlines. i know someone named ryan dunn (a 3L when i was a 1L) had an amazing contracts outline that i no longer have, which probably single-handedly saved me from disaster in that class. it may still be circulating somewhere...
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: SplorkyFish on January 17, 2009, 04:14:06 PM

and as strauss always says, no employer understands what "elements of the law" is. my interviewers basically just scanned my transcript to see basic patterns compared with other students. and for 1L jobs, grades didn't help or hurt me much. so i wouldn't worry until you get your next grades...

Impossible.  IN THIS ECONOMY, high Elements grades are essential.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ulpian246 on January 18, 2009, 07:17:03 PM
Quote
Impossible.  IN THIS ECONOMY, high Elements grades are essential.
Please don't turn this site into XOXOXO/Above the Law  :(

I feel really stupid for asking about this, but can somebody post up an explanation of the grades again?  I get the whole, 177+ = good/177- = bad, or something like that, but I remember seeing some really awesome explanations of what it all means back in the day.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on January 18, 2009, 07:37:13 PM
Quote
Impossible.  IN THIS ECONOMY, high Elements grades are essential.
Please don't turn this site into XOXOXO/Above the Law  :(

I feel really stupid for asking about this, but can somebody post up an explanation of the grades again?  I get the whole, 177+ = good/177- = bad, or something like that, but I remember seeing some really awesome explanations of what it all means back in the day.



How's this (via Wikipedia):

The Law School employs a unique grading system with a range from 155 to 186. These numerical grades convert to the more familiar alphabetical scale as follows: 155-159 = F, 160-167 = D, 168-173 = C, 174-179 = B, 180-186 = A. For classes of more than 50 students, the median grade is 177, and the number of As should approximately equal the number of Cs.

A student graduates "with honors" if a final average of 179 is attained, "with high honors" if a final average of 180.5 is attained, and "with highest honors" if a final average of 182 is attained. The last of these achievements is rare; typically only one student every few years will attain the requisite 182 average.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on January 18, 2009, 07:40:08 PM
damn it, i just typed all that out but your answer was much more succinct.

i heard a rumor that gersen, who just graduated in 2004, had the highest GPA average in the history of the law school. i wonder what that was......
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on January 18, 2009, 07:50:18 PM
damn it, i just typed all that out but your answer was much more succinct.

i heard a rumor that gersen, who just graduated in 2004, had the highest GPA average in the history of the law school. i wonder what that was......


true or not, that's a cool rumor.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on January 18, 2009, 07:54:09 PM
That seems
damn it, i just typed all that out but your answer was much more succinct.

i heard a rumor that gersen, who just graduated in 2004, had the highest GPA average in the history of the law school. i wonder what that was......

I heard that rumor as well, but I can't see how that could be.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/gersen/cv.html

It says he only graduated with High Honors, not Highest Honors. Or maybe his CV on there is wrong...? But that seems unlikely.

Further bit of random grade-related trivia: back in 1973, Judge Easterbrook graduated 3rd in his class and Judge Ginsburg graduated 2nd in his class. So who was first in the class that year? I can't remember.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on January 18, 2009, 08:00:35 PM
That seems
damn it, i just typed all that out but your answer was much more succinct.

i heard a rumor that gersen, who just graduated in 2004, had the highest GPA average in the history of the law school. i wonder what that was......

I heard that rumor as well, but I can't see how that could be.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/gersen/cv.html

It says he only graduated with High Honors, not Highest Honors. Or maybe his CV on there is wrong...? But that seems unlikely.

Further bit of random grade-related trivia: back in 1973, Judge Easterbrook graduated 3rd in his class and Judge Ginsburg graduated 2nd in his class. So who was first in the class that year? I can't remember.



1973 was a helluva year for the Law School. Also graduating was this guy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_M._Rubenstein - who went on to found the Carlyle Group. I'm not sure if he was #1, but definitely a powerhouse year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on January 18, 2009, 08:02:54 PM
That seems
damn it, i just typed all that out but your answer was much more succinct.

i heard a rumor that gersen, who just graduated in 2004, had the highest GPA average in the history of the law school. i wonder what that was......

I heard that rumor as well, but I can't see how that could be.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/gersen/cv.html

It says he only graduated with High Honors, not Highest Honors. Or maybe his CV on there is wrong...? But that seems unlikely.

Further bit of random grade-related trivia: back in 1973, Judge Easterbrook graduated 3rd in his class and Judge Ginsburg graduated 2nd in his class. So who was first in the class that year? I can't remember.


damn it, i even downloaded the pdf of his CV in case they mistyped it. he does have a cool font though. i forgot to check if he had an "other skills" section like they tell you to add 1L year: LIKES JUGGLING. ENJOYS LONG BIKES RIDES ALONG THE LAKE.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: SplorkyFish on January 18, 2009, 08:25:13 PM
That seems
damn it, i just typed all that out but your answer was much more succinct.

i heard a rumor that gersen, who just graduated in 2004, had the highest GPA average in the history of the law school. i wonder what that was......

I heard that rumor as well, but I can't see how that could be.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/gersen/cv.html

It says he only graduated with High Honors, not Highest Honors. Or maybe his CV on there is wrong...? But that seems unlikely.

Further bit of random grade-related trivia: back in 1973, Judge Easterbrook graduated 3rd in his class and Judge Ginsburg graduated 2nd in his class. So who was first in the class that year? I can't remember.


Do we introduce ourselves on this board?  If so, hi guys.  I'm a 1L here.

The way I heard it, Gersen's GPA was so high that he was the only professor we've hired recently who didn't have a PhD in another discipline. Oh, hyperbole.  But I guess the CV says he has a PhD in Poli Sci. 

PS. the IN THIS ECONOMY line was meant at a dig on XOXO.  I'll be the last person to turn LSD into that.  Not that I've spent much time there, but it's just a very nauseating place.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on January 19, 2009, 08:36:09 PM
WHOAWHOAWHOA. Hold up a sec. My resume has both of those things on it. Am I screwed?  ???

Of course not. Law firms love jugglers.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 20, 2009, 04:37:36 AM
LOL.

I think the take-away lesson might also be to avoid lame interest sections, if you include one.  When I was a recruiter, my eyes would glaze over each time I saw "traveling" as an interest.  Yeah, real original.  You like to travel!

Did the last interviewer ding you?  More interestingly, did the ranting guy offer a callback?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on January 20, 2009, 07:52:48 AM
What are the cutoffs for the higher-end firms? Is it all pseudo-secret, or was that something you could have found out easily before the interview/bidding process?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on January 20, 2009, 08:06:48 AM
Career Services will eventually give you a sheet that tells you the lowest GPA for a student the firm called back and the highest GPA for a student the firm called back. The sheet spans the last 3 years I believe. It doesn't include all firms, but it does include most of them.

Its not bad, but its not quite as useful as the one they handed out a couple years ago, which included the lowest, highest, AND the median. Including the median is pretty helpful. Talk to 2Ls or 3Ls and you'll be able to get copies of the list from previous years (or PM me and I can send it).

This doesn't necessarily tell you if a firm has a hard GPA cut-off (or other hard requirements), but it does give you a general idea of your chances grade-wise.

And I'm not sure about hard cut-offs anyway. According to someone at Career Services, one firm supposedly had a non-GPA-based requirement that I didn't meet, yet they still called me back (although I didn't get an offer).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: buffettologie on January 20, 2009, 08:23:22 AM
Agreed, the GPA sheets from a couple of years ago that showed the median are A LOT more helpful than what they pass out now. But honestly, next year's hiring is likely to be very different than it was in 2004, 5, 6, or even 7,  so the only data that will likely matter is 2008 IMO.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on January 20, 2009, 03:04:36 PM
i got a lot of comments on my law school musical experience. i don't think they helped or hurt me, but at least it gave us something to talk about. one dumb interviewer actually asked me to sing (yes, i did) and i DIDN'T EVEN GET A CALLBACK. i think that was more my gpa than my beautiful brief rendition of "don't cry for me, argentina". but i totally agree that putting something vague and general on your resume is unhelpful.

i think the firm cut-offs sheet is extremely helpful. i tried to avoid firms with a 179/180+ 25th percentile because i knew i was out of that range. but there's definitely some fudging; some firms will say on symplicity that they want a minimum gpa of 179, yet when you look at their median callbacks, it's 177.5 or something. so there is some wiggle room.

my favorite was sonnenschein "preferred" top 75% in the class. my kind of law firm. 
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on January 21, 2009, 04:31:10 AM
If you're going to do an interests, make them weird.  seriously.

I used to be a philosophy major, and put metaphysics down as an interest...got asked about it at least once per callback this year, and at pretty much all my interviews as a 1L (of course, the downside was they wanted me to TALK about it...one callback interviewer grilled me on paradoxes for 30 minutes AND I didn't get an offer...jerk).  Let's not talk about the interest once people find out a hobby is collecting Japanese swords... ;)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: MP on January 21, 2009, 04:33:43 AM
Oh anyone looking for a sublet this summer?  I live in Regents AND have real furniture (and a new 42" plasma).  If interested, please let me know  :)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 21, 2009, 08:16:04 AM
Oh anyone looking for a sublet this summer?  I live in Regents AND have real furniture (and a new 42" plasma).  If interested, please let me know  :)

I will *probably* be looking for a sublet, and that sounds like a good offer.  Could you remind me around March?

As of today, I want to work in the clinics, or, if that doesn't pan out, RA.  But I definitely want to R&R in Hyde Park this summer.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 21, 2009, 12:04:52 PM
The few clinical people I know like their jobs.  Moreover, they give you great talking points for future employment, I heard.

I haven't seen much of you this quarter.  What's up?  How did you like the race/notice/race-notice/shelter rule/bona fide purchaser hypotheticals in Fennell?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 21, 2009, 05:54:11 PM
I haven't seen much of you this quarter.  What's up?  How did you like the race/notice/race-notice/shelter rule/bona fide purchaser hypotheticals in Fennell?

Yeah I've been trying to steamroll through work while I'm at school, so I don't spend as much time in the Green Lounge.

I thought it was reasonably interesting. Kinda straightforward. I'm still a little confused about what constitutes a BFP (I would have guessed that the guy who convinced the seller that the house was haunted in order to buy it for $500 would not be, since that reeks of bad faith) but all will come in time. How's your quarter going?

I think BFP simply presents consideration.  Some courts require a substantial amount, while others try to avoid anything grossly inadequate.  I think it's a rebuttable presumption even if they merely present $1.

You're right: that hypo was confusing, but $500 still trumps any donees in terms of title rights, and that makes sense.

My quarter is okay.  I feel much less social than last quarter.  New Grad has split into cliques, so I see only two or three people on a regular basis now.

How do you like Levmore?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: Rainmaker614 on January 21, 2009, 06:54:01 PM
Do any of you 1L's have anything to say about the "hold" process? I was just put on hold and I am head over heels for the school (it is also a huge reach for me, so I'm happy to even get the hold). Did they do this last year? Do many people get accepted off the "hold" list? What exactly is it?

Thanks!
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: nerfco on January 21, 2009, 07:50:27 PM
My quarter is okay.  I feel much less social than last quarter.  New Grad has split into cliques, so I see only two or three people on a regular basis now.

Really? Lasy year New Grad seemed to be one big happy family, for the most part. Also, a lot of different people seemed to study together in the study rooms, both 1Ls and non-law students. Not the case this year?

(Note: I didn't live in New Grad.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 21, 2009, 11:05:22 PM
My quarter is okay.  I feel much less social than last quarter.  New Grad has split into cliques, so I see only two or three people on a regular basis now.

Really? Lasy year New Grad seemed to be one big happy family, for the most part. Also, a lot of different people seemed to study together in the study rooms, both 1Ls and non-law students. Not the case this year?

(Note: I didn't live in New Grad.)

I talked to a New Grad 2L who shall remain anonymous unless you PM me, and he said that New Grad was so cool last year, Regents people actually commuted south to hang out in New Grad.  He said they set up video games in the big TV room and played Halo on massive screens, with multiple controllers.

I was speechless.  I'm still speechless.  I guess that different years produce different people, because an alum told me that New Grad was the "gunner" dorm, and it's certainly lived up to that reputation this year.  Regents, however, . . .  :P
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on January 22, 2009, 01:30:45 PM
Do any of you 1L's have anything to say about the "hold" process? I was just put on hold and I am head over heels for the school (it is also a huge reach for me, so I'm happy to even get the hold). Did they do this last year? Do many people get accepted off the "hold" list? What exactly is it?

Thanks!

i'll take a stab at this, but i may be wrong.

a hold probably means that they want to see how the rest of the class shapes up before they reconsider your application (so probably better than a waitlist). it's also an opportunity for you to send in more letters of recommendation, improved grades, whatever you can do to make yourself more appealing (also a targeted letter saying how much you love the school and naming specific reasons you would come here, i.e. a particular professor, a clinic, etc.).
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on January 26, 2009, 07:29:52 PM
omg at "posner answers the feminists" today. who wanted to hug posner/hit him in the face with a pie? (i'm in the latter group.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: treefity350 on February 07, 2009, 12:34:32 PM
omg at "posner answers the feminists" today. who wanted to hug posner/hit him in the face with a pie? (i'm in the latter group.)

What wasn't to like about Posner? He shot down an entire critical perspective in under 10 seconds. Oh yeah, maybe thats what not like about him. Whatever, good laugh.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on February 08, 2009, 07:52:05 AM
omg at "posner answers the feminists" today. who wanted to hug posner/hit him in the face with a pie? (i'm in the latter group.)

What wasn't to like about Posner? He shot down an entire critical perspective in under 10 seconds. Oh yeah, maybe thats what not like about him. Whatever, good laugh.

Um, maybe how his argument was composed entirely of one long hot blast of condescension? There was no "shooting down." There was concession and avoidance.

Seriously, what does Posner think the liberal arts professors across the Midway do? Build a more pragmatic world through every journal article? His notion that smart people shouldn't be writing about toilets because there are more important things in the world is just ridiculous. (OK, yeah, I did a stint in humanities grad school.) I mean, toilets exist! We use them every day. Anyway. Posner is almost always interesting, but this was a sorry showing.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on February 08, 2009, 12:41:08 PM
I'm done!!!   :D
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: SplorkyFish on February 08, 2009, 11:22:24 PM
I'm done!!!   :D

Dude, you forgot to cite the dissent.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on February 08, 2009, 11:23:09 PM
OMG . . . you're right!!!  I forgot to cite the dissent.   :o
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on February 09, 2009, 12:53:33 PM
Splorky is actually not me, though I know who he is.

Who are finderkeepers and seatochitown?  That's more interesting.  And I'm sick of all the lurkers coming up to me and asking whether I post on this forum.  (I'm looking at you, tall guy in section B.)
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on February 09, 2009, 01:50:05 PM
omg at "posner answers the feminists" today. who wanted to hug posner/hit him in the face with a pie? (i'm in the latter group.)

What wasn't to like about Posner? He shot down an entire critical perspective in under 10 seconds. Oh yeah, maybe thats what not like about him. Whatever, good laugh.

i really enjoyed his "WE HAVE BIGGER THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT THAN YOUR MAIN FIELD OF STUDY, PROFESSOR CASE". yes, we all make fun of case for her obsession with unisex bathrooms. but....that's now my favorite argument. why do i skip class? WE HAVE BIGGER THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT, LIKE THE WAR ON TERROR.

i have case for sex discrimination and we spent virtually the entire next class discussing the debate. she's seriously a class act and was trying to defend posner when all of us were insulting him. (i should point out that my problem with his performance was that he's incredibly smart, yet didn't seem to even try to address any of nussbaum or cases' arguments. he was clearly unprepared and didn't even make an attempt to answer their questions.)

yes, i am a feminist, in case that wasn't abundantly clear.

on to bigger and better things. the musical is a week from friday and is going to be awesome. for the 1Ls here, there is unlimited beer and pizza on friday for the price of a ticket (somewhere between $15-20), as well as a pit band, students dancing and singing (for the most part, in a cute yet amateur fashion), and a special faculty cameo somewhere in the show. i have no idea who it will be. my 1L year it was professor cox, but last year it was gersen and miles.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on February 09, 2009, 04:37:06 PM
on to bigger and better things. the musical is a week from friday and is going to be awesome. for the 1Ls here, there is unlimited beer and pizza on friday for the price of a ticket (somewhere between $15-20), as well as a pit band, students dancing and singing (for the most part, in a cute yet amateur fashion), and a special faculty cameo somewhere in the show. i have no idea who it will be. my 1L year it was professor cox, but last year it was gersen and miles.

Also, sometimes complete strangers pour beer all over you and you get to go to a sketchy hot dog place with David Lat. So there's that.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: finderskeepers on February 09, 2009, 04:43:34 PM
Dude.  I didn't even read any cases that had dissents.  I've heard lots of people talking about it though.  Problem?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: SplorkyFish on February 09, 2009, 04:54:45 PM
Posted today at 2:22:24 AM
Posted today at 2:23:09 AM

Splorky is an unapologetic Wally alias. :P

 ::).
Out of curiosity, what would make me an apologetic Wally alias?
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: clairel on February 09, 2009, 07:21:14 PM
on to bigger and better things. the musical is a week from friday and is going to be awesome. for the 1Ls here, there is unlimited beer and pizza on friday for the price of a ticket (somewhere between $15-20), as well as a pit band, students dancing and singing (for the most part, in a cute yet amateur fashion), and a special faculty cameo somewhere in the show. i have no idea who it will be. my 1L year it was professor cox, but last year it was gersen and miles.

Also, sometimes complete strangers pour beer all over you and you get to go to a sketchy hot dog place with David Lat. So there's that.

the beer spilling is pretty standard but i was definitely performing for david lat last year.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: seatochitown on February 09, 2009, 09:03:05 PM
i didn't cite no dissents. i did cite a marginally relevant supreme court case, though, just for kicks.

come to the musical! it's funny. or it will be funny, if you're drinking beer.
Title: Re: University of Chicago Class of 2011
Post by: annonymous on February 10, 2009, 12:45:55 AM
on to bigger and better things. the musical is a week from friday and is going to be awesome. for the 1Ls here, there is unlimited beer and pizza on friday for the price of a ticket (somewhere between $15-20), as well as a pit band, students dancing and singing (for the most part, in a cute yet amateur fashion), and a special faculty cameo somewhere in the show. i have no idea who it will be. my 1L year it was professor cox, but last year it was gersen and miles.

Also, sometimes complete strangers pour beer all over you and you get to go to a sketchy hot dog place with David Lat. So there's that.

the beer spilling is pretty standard but i was definitely performing for david lat last year.

spilling =/= pouring

But seriously folks, go to the musical. Its fun.