Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students => Topic started by: SkullTatt on July 30, 2005, 01:38:10 PM

Title: Homosexual PS
Post by: SkullTatt on July 30, 2005, 01:38:10 PM
It seems like a big question for the personal statement is whether to play "the gay card" or not. Did you? Are you going to? Why or why not?

I am going to, since a significant amount of the volunteer experience I want to mention is GLBT related. But if it weren't, I'm not so sure...
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Paperback Writer on July 30, 2005, 01:45:54 PM
Sure, why not.  It seems like a lot of schools are interested in admitting GLBT students.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: NathanB on July 30, 2005, 06:44:09 PM
I would think it depends partly on where you want to apply.  NYU, sure.  Pepperdine, probably not.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: InVinoVeritas on July 30, 2005, 07:10:20 PM
i did.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: NathanB on July 30, 2005, 07:24:07 PM
I have thought about doing it.  I'm planning to apply to NYU, Columbia, and Fordham (as I want to go to school in NYC).  For NYU and Columbia, I may.  Fordham, I'm not so sure.  I don't think it would help me any there, and might just hurt me.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: hammer101 on July 30, 2005, 07:45:27 PM
I don't see how it could hurt, but I don't think you'll score any minority points by writing about it. Why? Because gays and lesbians aren't exactly underrepresented in most law student bodies (at least the top schools).

Two of my gay friends wrote about homosexuality in their PS's and saw disparate results. One is a rising 2L at Harvard and the other is going to Miami next month. I didn't read my HLS friend's PS but it might have been decisive, given that at HYS you need some other edge in addition to great numbers. My buddy at Miami was pretty frustrated with how his applications fared, but that had much more to do with his LSAT score than how his PS was perceived.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: lincolnsgrandson on July 31, 2005, 06:54:54 AM
I attend Fordham Law; I don't think you should make assumptions based it on its status on a Jesuit school.  The school does quite a bit to reach out to gay students (and to Jewish and Moslem students as well).  So if playing the queer card was your plan, I don't think you need to adjust it for Fordham. 
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: NathanB on July 31, 2005, 01:05:45 PM
That actually surprises me.  I mean, i know the jesuits are basically the hippies of the catholic world, but I still figured that gays weren't the most loved group.

Interesting.  Thanks for the info.

Just out of curiosity, did you like Fordham?

I attend Fordham Law; I don't think you should make assumptions based it on its status on a Jesuit school. The school does quite a bit to reach out to gay students (and to Jewish and Moslem students as well). So if playing the queer card was your plan, I don't think you need to adjust it for Fordham.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SkullTatt on July 31, 2005, 03:41:04 PM
I don't think you should make assumptions based it on its status on a Jesuit school.  The school does quite a bit to reach out to gay students (and to Jewish and Moslem students as well).  So if playing the queer card was your plan, I don't think you need to adjust it for Fordham.

That is good to know, because I am especially concerned about a couple of Jesuit schools I am applying to (not Fordham, but Georgetown and University of San Francisco)
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: lincolnsgrandson on August 02, 2005, 06:59:20 AM
Nate

Fordham Law is a good school.  It can be summed up just the way you'd think: third best law school in New York City.  By best, I mean based on its reputation with New York employers.  I don't necessarily know that the professors are as a whole more distinguished than those at Cardozo or Brooklyn Law.  I'm inclined to think that the actual quality of professors is the same. 

I stress again that I don't think you should adjust any law school decision based on Fordham's status as a Jesuit university.  Perhaps it's relevant to the undergrad, but not to the law school.  Few law students actually pay attention to the university itself.  The law school had to take down plaques with the University's own logo because of complaints about the Catholic symbols.  Many observant Jews attend, and teach at, Fordham Law.  Kosher food is served at most events. 
There's an active student group for gay students, and a Lavender Law (whatever that is) day for firms to recruit. 
I'll bet if you ask five random Fordham Law students what Fordham's mascot is, not a single one could tell you (it's the Rams, by the way.  Which, depending on your imagination, sounds a little gay).

Is there anything else that you want to know?
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: NathanB on August 02, 2005, 08:22:11 AM
That's really helpful.  I have a really good friend who attended fordham undergrad (Lincoln Center) and said basically the same thing about their undergrad there.

It does put my mind a bit more at ease.  And I think that answers most of my questions.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on August 08, 2005, 08:25:20 AM
I'm still deciding on "playing the gay card," not because I think it would help in and of itself, but because I'm considering writing my PS on following the VT civil union case and the Mass gay marriage case if the second or third draft of my current statement (which doesn't mention it) doesn't work out.

But I was really active in the Queer Coalition at my school, and did some other queer related volunteering, so most likely any adcom would assume I'm gay based on my resume, not that I think they'll care.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: incognito on August 14, 2005, 02:08:59 PM
I think that I am going to include it but not make it the focus.  It may be why I have decided to go into law but says nothing about why I think I will do well in it.  I'm thinking about applying to Georgetown and my boyfriend reminded me that they are a Catholic university.  I don't think it will matter and if it does then I am better off not going there in the first place.  These things are hard to write though, aren't they? 

First post!  Please oh please oh please don't let me get addicted to this site.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on August 14, 2005, 02:46:11 PM
First post!  Please oh please oh please don't let me get addicted to this site.

Good luck.  This site is crazy addictive.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: NathanB on August 14, 2005, 05:15:17 PM
Yeah, I have to confess, you start on here and pretty soon, its pretty much your social life.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Julee Fern on August 14, 2005, 06:34:58 PM
Being gay does appear help at top schools.  All top schools liberal, want more different voices in law.  They not sure who is and isn't, so can't hurt to trumpet gayness.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: cedowdy on August 17, 2005, 05:14:54 PM
I plan to mention it in passing. It will not be the focus of my PS. And, yes, this site is like crack!
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SkullTatt on August 18, 2005, 01:10:34 PM
I'm thinking about applying to Georgetown and my boyfriend reminded me that they are a Catholic university.

Yeah they are. I hear they sued a few years ago to prevent the formation of a GLBT student group. But they have a bunch of GLBT groups now. I have thought about whether to out myself on my G-Town application and I decided to just do it.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: slacker on August 27, 2005, 09:48:12 PM
I didn't out myself in my PS, but I didn't stay "in" for too long in law school. I've heard of some organizations, like larger law firms and the local AAG looking for more gays for diversity. Don't know that this will help me in the job search, but the next question is who gets a resume with that info (vs. a resume w/out).
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Klansmen on September 09, 2005, 01:28:30 PM
Damn there are a lot of fruits on this board! Why mention that you are a pillow biter in your PS? I don't need to specify that I don't enjoy dookie love in mine. I guess you are hoping that there is a queer on the board of admissions and maybe he/she will relate to a fellow trud banger, if that it the case then use your advantages. But it is more likley that those reading your PS will not be in the Liberace fanclub and will find your activities repulsive.

I would say use your own judgement but judging by your lifestlye your judgement is in need of some healing. On second thought, let the board know. It will be easier for them to tag and deny you. I'll feel much safer at the urinal.   
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on September 09, 2005, 06:48:23 PM
Well personally, I'm just hoping I get an adcom that thinks lesbian = hot porno girl on girl action, and lets me in on that basis.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: desi desi desi on September 09, 2005, 09:46:06 PM
i don't know if the op is still checking this thread... but you mentioned that the GLBT theme arises from a significant amount of community service activities you have participated in throughout the years.  while that is commendable, make sure your PS steers away from reiterating activities listed on your resume and more towards telling a story.  adcomm's read thousands of mind-numbing PS which essentially re-tell the applicants resumes.  structure your PS in a way that you are telling a story.  that is my only advice.  as for the GLBT thing - i'm a 2L at a decent law school in the south that originated from the Methodist church.  Our school has an active LGBT group, and the faculty, staff, and student body appear tolerant.  I think that at the top schools, the LGBT (and Jewish, and Asian) communities are well represented to the extent that being LGBT will not *help* your application by giving you diversity points.  However, I doubt that being LGBT would detract from your application, save a few conservative schools (Pepperdine, Regent, BYU).  Like I said, if you can incorporate your sexuality into a story you're telling the adcomm, then by all means, do it.  But I would shy away from a theme of LGBT/community service because that should already be on your resume.

My personal statement was about a broken toaster, among other things.   ;D
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: A.J. on September 09, 2005, 09:51:59 PM
being gay makes you a racial minority
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SkullTatt on September 11, 2005, 09:47:34 PM
i don't know if the op is still checking this thread...

I am. I am making my PS more career-oriented now so the PS is no longer an issue, but the resume/volunteer work is. I have decided to just out myself everywhere, I basically have to, otherwise my only community service is animal rights, and that might look weird.

On a related note, I was looking at some "biglaw" websites and one HUGE law firm, with offices in London, New York, Houston, Atlanta, etc., actually has a page talking about their GLBT group and how they creative a positive environment for gay employees, etc.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: desi desi desi on September 11, 2005, 10:25:45 PM
one HUGE law firm, with offices in London, New York, Houston, Atlanta, etc., actually has a page talking about their GLBT group and how they creative a positive environment for gay employees, etc.

umm, which one?  being an ATLien, i guarantee you this market is hostile to minorities, women, and gays.  not outwardly hostile, but at the end of the day, this is the South.  and in the South, (as a minority), i know my place.  go to NY.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SkullTatt on September 12, 2005, 05:08:12 PM
It was King & Spaulding, and here is the webpage:

http://www.kslaw.com/diversity/sexual.asp
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Denny Crane on September 12, 2005, 06:03:24 PM
Do you think adcomms verify a student's homosexuality?  Does being gay not help unless you have shown substantial involvement in gay rights activities?  And if participating in gay-rights activities does beneift you if you are gay, does it ONLY benefit you if you are gay?  If not, then why mention that you are gay at all?  Or at the very least, why expect that it should have a positive benefit?  I think many people erroneously clump together racial minorities and homosexual applicants, when these are undeniably two different kinds of applicants who are viewed differently by adcomms (or so I expect, and hope).
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on September 13, 2005, 07:13:32 AM
I think many people erroneously clump together racial minorities and homosexual applicants, when these are undeniably two different kinds of applicants who are viewed differently by adcomms (or so I expect, and hope).

They are of course very different.  I think the theory is that an adcom wants to put together a class that is as diverse as possible.  If they could fill the class with people who, aside from having stellar numbers and fabulous prior educations, are in proportion with the community or nation in terms of race, class background, gender, sexual orientation, etc.  The numbers are a higher priority, but the idea is that if an adcomm looks at the class they've put together, and have no or relatively few obviously gay people, and they're looking at two applicatns with similar numbers, someone self identified as gay may have an edge over someone who isn't.  The same may be true of the ballance is skewed towards one gender, or one area of the country.

None of this is going to trump numbers, nor is it nearly as important to adcomms as racial diversity, but it may be something.

On the other hand, I'm still finding it hard to believe that gays are underrepresented in law school classes (of course since nobody has reliable stats on sexual orientation anyway it's hard to say).  If we're not, then I'm sure it wouldn't matter a bit. 

And, no, I'm sure they don't verify anybody's homosexuality.  I mean, really, what are they going to do?  Ask for a videotape?
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Denny Crane on September 13, 2005, 08:17:18 AM
And, no, I'm sure they don't verify anybody's homosexuality. I mean, really, what are they going to do? Ask for a videotape?


That's exactly what I would expect, which makes me wonder why indicating that your are gay anywhere on your application would help you at all in admissions.  I'm certainly not asking people to leave that out if they feel that it is vitally important to their lives and important to how they want to represent themselves to adcomms.  However, I don't understand why anyone does it with the expectation that they will (or should) receive any sort of minority consideration for it. 
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: thenextstep on September 13, 2005, 08:28:42 AM
Swat - few if any people would out themselves on a application just for the admissions benefit.  It is not like it is safe or easy or even a good idea in all situations to be out.  People are deciding whether to out themselves or not because they know some schools are actively recruiting GLBT people and that there are other schools that are actively not... so it's a decision that needs to be made.  Many other schools are neither recruiting nor discouraging.

I don't think anyone thinks it's like affirmative action or anything (i.e. we don't expect it to be like URM status), just that it is one way in which you might be different from the mainstream applicant.  I think sugersh has it right in saying it's about putting together a class that is not simply just the best people by the numbers but that has all types of diversity.  That does not mean that all types of diversity are equally valued, just that in an ideal world adcomms would rather have a more diverse class than not.  And there is a difference between being involved in gay rights and outing yourself clearly in your PS or in some other way. 
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Denny Crane on September 13, 2005, 08:40:47 AM
I wholeheartedly agree that putting together a diverse class (with a diversity that reaches beyond simple racial or ethnic diversity) should be a goal of all law schools, however I question the policy of active recruitment of gays and lesbians in law school simply because it can be so easily manipulated.  Homosexuality cannot be verified, nor can anyone ask anyone else to "prove" their homosexuality.  And even if a student outs themselves on their application, there is no way that the school can release that information to anyone else, which means that someone can identify themselves as gay on their application, while remaining "straight" in practice once they matriculate.  I am curious how schools that actively recruit LGBT students go about ensuring that no one abuses that policy.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SkullTatt on September 13, 2005, 11:38:54 AM
Well, considering that you can get kicked out of law school for lying on your application, that is a pretty strong incentive not to lie. Simply saying you are gay on your application, if you are not, might become uncomfortable if you wind up on a school's list of students who self-identified as gay, and you begin getting invited to LGBT group meetings, or run into a professor who happens to have been told you are openly gay and invites you to participate in some gay-oriented school activity. What are you going to do then?

Anyway, I don't think anybody expects to throw "by the way, I'm gay" into their application and expect to get URM consideration. My original post was about whether to talk about gay-related community work (or jobs) and risk discrimination in the application process, because there are tons of people who hide behind religion to justify their anti-gay position in this country who would never dream of announcing that they were openly prejudiced in any other way. So, the question of whether to "out" yourself in the application process is a critical issue that gay students need to think about.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Denny Crane on September 13, 2005, 11:45:48 AM
Well, considering that you can get kicked out of law school for lying on your application, that is a pretty strong incentive not to lie. Simply saying you are gay on your application, if you are not, might become uncomfortable if you wind up on a school's list of students who self-identified as gay, and you begin getting invited to LGBT group meetings, or run into a professor who happens to have been told you are openly gay and invites you to participate in some gay-oriented school activity. What are you going to do then?


I am a hispanic student, and from the moment I got on campus I began receiving emails about all the hispanic activities and clubs and support groups, and it was incredibly easy for me to decline those invitations and remove myself from those email lists.  I think the same could be done for someone indicating that they are homosexual anywhere on their application.  My main point is that it is extremely difficult to catch someone in a lie about homosexuality.  Just because they do not go out with someone of the same gender, it does not necessarily follow that they are not gay.  I agree that it is highly unlikely for someone to falsely declare their homosexuality on their apps, but the possibility exists, and if schools begin attaching admissions boosts to homosexual applicants, I think false claims will rise.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on September 13, 2005, 11:49:35 AM
I just don't think there's enough of a bonus that someone would lie about it... I can't imagine that it's that much of a boost, and like Bonkers said, the effect could be negative or positive, it's hard to say.

Even if the adcomm member isn't openly prejudiced (and my guess would be that most aren't), knowing that an applicant is gay may conjure certain stereotypes which can negatively affect an application (for example that a queer woman will be tactless and militant, or that a queer man will be frivolous and shallow). 

Also, in one respect, the adcomm may not really care if you're "really" gay/bi/queer/trans/whatever.  If they care to publish a percentage of students who self identify, they can do that regardless of whether it's "true" (personally, I think the exact nature of orientation is more complicated than queer or not queer, but that's neither here nor there).
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SkullTatt on September 13, 2005, 02:54:31 PM
My main point is that it is extremely difficult to catch someone in a lie about homosexuality.

Based on what? Have you tried?

I agree that it is highly unlikely for someone to falsely declare their homosexuality on their apps, but the possibility exists, and if schools begin attaching admissions boosts to homosexual applicants, I think false claims will rise.

As Ronald Reagan would say, there you go again. Didn't I just say this whole thread was not about gays trying to get URM consideration, it's about deciding whether to face possible discrimination in the applciation process? Are you that fixated on the fear that gays and lesbians might -- God forbid -- get an admissions boost because of the prejudice they face in their daily lives? I wouldn't worry about it, we live in a pretty homophobic country so you are safe for now.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: e307515 on September 17, 2005, 04:20:28 PM
Well personally, I'm just hoping I get an adcom that thinks lesbian = hot porno girl on girl action, and lets me in on that basis.

haha me too
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: heybrent on October 31, 2005, 10:51:47 PM
It was King & Spaulding, and here is the webpage:

http://www.kslaw.com/diversity/sexual.asp


i'm from atlanta also.  K & S is the biggest law firm here, the ATL is their headquarters.  they do have AA for gays, although not a very good quality of life reputation.  Alston + Bird is the other big firm in town, they are apparently even friendlier to gays, and have a similar diversity/lgbt organization that they promote. in either case, you have to have strong grades at a top tier to be considered, but the gay card can apparently help you get your foot in the door.

i'm shooting for HLS, but Emory is a safety.  and if i wanted to stay in atlanta and do biglaw those would be my target firms.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: mto83 on December 30, 2005, 10:24:19 AM
I know no one has talked about this in awhile, but I will bring it up again because it is fresh on my mind.

I hopes it helps...I think I had a good statement: Contrasting my Asian, catholic upbringing with who I am, not only as a gay person but as a person who let go of my upbringing without letting go of the core principles. Then I talk about how working at a LGBT legal non-profit made me want to go to law school.

I think I would trump someone with similar numbers that the LS would consider anyway, but Harvard wouldn't admit based on my love for men. There are other smarter, gay people out there.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on December 30, 2005, 08:12:38 PM
Is that really your pic, mto83? I couldn't go to school with you... too distracting.  ::)

Anyways, here's my two cents on this subject. When visiting some T14 schools this fall, I set up meetings with each school's GLBT student organization. Although individual experiences varied, the common thread I noticed was that GLBT students at each school are putting a lot of pressure on school administrators to recruit and admit openly GLBT students. I can't tell you whether the administrators care or not, but the mere fact that current, tuition-paying students are injecting GLBT issues and advocacy into the minds of admissions officers/faculty gave me good reason to out myself in my PS. It also gave me hope that a potentially conservative school, like U of Chicago, could find some "sparkle" in a proud, thoughtful gay person who might not have the school's ideal stats.

Also, for the people who said there are a lot of openly gay people at the top law schools: I have DEFINITELY not found that to be the case in the midwestern T14 schools I have visited. We're still pretty exotic at some top schools.

Okay, I'm an LSD virgin.. be gentle.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: mto83 on December 30, 2005, 09:44:11 PM
odaiko, sorry that is me. i will try to not to go to the same school as you then. i wouldn't want you to do badly in school.  ;D maybe i should send the adcomm my pic. lol!

take a look at my LSN link. check out my numbers and tell me if it is even worth my time to try to apply to a t14 school. i doubt they will want a homo badly enough that they would take my numbers. anxiety happens--then questions are missed. what can you do?

everyone that has read my personal statement thinks it is incredibly compelling, even strangers. so fingers crossed that it will get me into a decent enough school with my numbers.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on December 30, 2005, 10:54:27 PM
Ok, you've just confirmed that I need to go to a school where all the men are trolls. Boys... studying... a deadly combination.

Seriously, I checked out your LSN profile and I really admire the fact that you are applying to a lot of reach schools. I am of the belief that good things happen when you set your sights high.

I actually took a similar approach as you did in writing my PS. It focuses on how one aspect of my sexuality (the process of coming out) has affected me professionally and personally, but it's not just "I'm gay. Blah blah blah..."

Good luck with your apps!
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: mto83 on December 31, 2005, 03:43:54 PM
well, you do have much better numbers. good luck on the other schools. i am sure you will do well.

go to the best school you can, they seem to have the ugliest gay boys. i know because all the ones i work with went to HYS.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: mobo on January 01, 2006, 12:35:52 AM
....

go to the best school you can, they seem to have the ugliest gay boys. i know because all the ones i work with went to HYS.


LOL
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: absy on January 01, 2006, 07:32:06 PM
odaiko, I agree with you that some of the midwestern schools have fewer out people.  I also think you made a good choice in coming out in your PS if that is an important part of your life.

at HLS, we're working with the admissions office to be proactive about LGBT applicants, as part of a general project by a dean's committee on assessing/improving the LGBT experience at the law school
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on January 01, 2006, 08:30:48 PM
Oh my god! I'm not going to school with you either, absy! I seriously need to find troll-central and go to that school.

I've heard tales of conservative administration/liberal student conflicts from friends who go to Harvard UG. Have you had any clashes at the law school? It's exciting to hear you're being proactive with the admissions staff. Now be proactive in the get-me-into-school-there department and I'll scope it out for myself. ;)
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: absy on January 01, 2006, 08:53:34 PM
we haven't had any problems with a conservative administration.  we haven't gotten a promise of continuous LGBT courses (though it has been the case for the past several years), but otherwise I'm quite happy with our relationship with the administration.

and the stuff with the admissions staff was at least partially initiated on their end.  it hasn't gone to the level of being able to influence individual admissions.  yet.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on January 01, 2006, 09:05:58 PM
This is all very good to know. Thanks for your work as an advocate at your school! Harvard is Harvard, so any positive changes for GLBT folks in your admissions policies will probably trickle down to the other schools with time.

When you say you're working with the admissions office to be "proactive about LGBT applicants", what does that mean? What are you asking them to do?
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: absy on January 01, 2006, 09:15:46 PM
it's not so much what we're asking of them; they're working with us to do the best they can.  making sure that readers are aware of the various ways that people might come out in their application, perhaps putting an explicit mention on the application itself, Lambda reaching out to those who have come out

one member of the admissions office noticed that our spring LGBT academic conference coincides with one of the admit weekends, and he wanted to see if we were willing to invite admits and how best to spread word about it
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on January 01, 2006, 09:29:50 PM
Has HLS indicated why they would want their readers to identify if a person comes out on the application? URM? Positive/negative? It's not clear to me why they would want to identify that data if they aren't going to use it in some way beyond post-admissions stuff (encouraging admitted GLBT students to attend, etc.).

As you know, I totally outed myself in my PS, but it still feels like a gamble to me because I don't really know how adcoms will interpret it. Therefore I'm very interested to know if you have gleaned anything on this topic from the admissions staff you have collaborated with.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: absy on January 01, 2006, 09:44:27 PM
it definitely won't be a negative, though we're not URMs (we're quite overrepresented with respect to the overall population).  but it does help make someone a more interesting candidate

basically, they want to make sure that readers understand the person they're dealing with as much as possible
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on January 01, 2006, 09:57:52 PM
I see, thanks for clarifying!

End of pesky questions/HLS fantasizing for tonight.  :-X
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Yale College Inferno on January 09, 2006, 04:33:46 AM
at HLS, we're working with the admissions office to be proactive about LGBT applicants, as part of a general project by a dean's committee on assessing/improving the LGBT experience at the law school

Absy, did you help to write the gay recruitment letter some of us received?
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: absy on January 09, 2006, 05:42:05 AM
Absy, did you help to write the gay recruitment letter some of us received?

I did not.  what are your thoughts on it? (I may be helping to write it next year)
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: ghaleon on January 09, 2006, 01:27:11 PM
at HLS, we're working with the admissions office to be proactive about LGBT applicants, as part of a general project by a dean's committee on assessing/improving the LGBT experience at the law school

Absy, did you help to write the gay recruitment letter some of us received?

Sigh, I received no recruitment letter from HLS. But I did from Columbia Outlaws. Where's the Harvard love, absy?  ;)
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Yale College Inferno on January 09, 2006, 02:01:12 PM
Absy, did you help to write the gay recruitment letter some of us received?

I did not.  what are your thoughts on it? (I may be helping to write it next year)

I don't really remember, and I can't find the letter anymore. I guess it didn't make a strong impression, so maybe some revision would help. I mean, I already know that Harvard is great and has lots of gay guys...maybe add some really little-known details would be helpful.

On the other hand I do think practiceboy02 facebooked one of the guys who signed the letter and said he was really cute. (Or was that for another school?) Ooh, idea! Enclose a little pamphlet with pics of hot Harvard guys  ;D Include some blurb or quote for each one, so that it's ostensibly about their Harvard experience...
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: absy on January 09, 2006, 03:46:48 PM
sorry you didn't get the letter, ghaleon.  I wasn't part of the writing or distribution.  I plan to be next year though.  anyone who comes to an admit weekend will be shown the Harvard love.  the second weekend coincides with our LGBT conference; besides that we'll have a dinner and go clubbing.  can't guarantee Harvard lovin' though
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: ghaleon on January 09, 2006, 04:08:23 PM
sorry you didn't get the letter, ghaleon.  I wasn't part of the writing or distribution.  I plan to be next year though.  anyone who comes to an admit weekend will be shown the Harvard love.  the second weekend coincides with our LGBT conference; besides that we'll have a dinner and go clubbing.  can't guarantee Harvard lovin' though

Well I probably didn't get the letter cause I won't be invited to admit weekend. My numbers make me a very borderline candidate at Harvard, so I'll just keep dreamin' of Harvard lovin' until that thin envelope makes its way out here to Cali.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SFnative on February 02, 2006, 04:50:50 PM
sorry you didn't get the letter, ghaleon.  I wasn't part of the writing or distribution.  I plan to be next year though.  anyone who comes to an admit weekend will be shown the Harvard love.  the second weekend coincides with our LGBT conference; besides that we'll have a dinner and go clubbing.  can't guarantee Harvard lovin' though

Well I probably didn't get the letter cause I won't be invited to admit weekend. My numbers make me a very borderline candidate at Harvard, so I'll just keep dreamin' of Harvard lovin' until that thin envelope makes its way out here to Cali.

so where do you plan to go if u dont find harvard love? if u are at columbia, you have new york lovin and at boalt, there is san francisco! Some good choices u got there :)
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Emolee on February 02, 2006, 05:09:05 PM
Outlaws- that's great.. makes me want to go to Columbia ;) 

Didn't get the letter tho- even tho I identified as gay (whatever they called it) on LSDAS and I did get a fee waiver from Columb- wonder why no love from the outlaws?
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: ScoopNY on February 13, 2006, 10:34:41 AM
I only got one letter from a gay group -- from McGeorge! The rest sent me letters about the black law student groups instead. Maybe they didn't read past black on my LSDAS, lol.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Emolee on February 14, 2006, 11:59:23 AM
got the outlaws thing yesterday... small envelope showing up from Columbia... so scary!!
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SkullTatt on February 15, 2006, 03:44:25 PM
I find it funny that some law school in Oklahoma City is spamming me with all kinds of GLBT information about their school. Bizarre. Only like two other schools have sent me pro-GLBT stuff and I can't even remember which ones, I don't think they were any of the schools I applied to.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Yale College Inferno on February 15, 2006, 05:27:50 PM
I got the Oklahoma gay spam bomb today as well.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Miss P on February 15, 2006, 06:51:21 PM
Me too.  I wrote a slightly obnoxious post about it yesterday on the mail call thread and then I started feeling really bad about my coastal chauvinism.  Still, I half-wondered if Dean Tamara Martinez-Anderson might just be looking for semi-interesting queers to talk to through this world wide weave...

The only other LGBT stuff I got was from Columbia and Penn.  Ah, false hope!
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: ScoopNY on February 15, 2006, 08:40:50 PM
The best was when I got stuff from Regent. Now it wasn't any gay stuff, but still, didn't they notice I checked GLBT on my LDSAS? I'm pretty sure Regent isn't too gay friendly.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Yale College Inferno on February 15, 2006, 09:09:29 PM
Hey, let's write an e-mail to Liberty University asking to speak to members of their LGBT organization!
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Emolee on February 16, 2006, 11:33:31 AM
i found it interesting that in that long list of sins, etc. homosexuality was never mentioned explicitly... i'm sure it falls under "immorality" tho...or "horseplay", possibly :)
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: mobo on February 16, 2006, 05:45:29 PM
I got the Oklahoma gay spam bomb today as well.

haha did anyone go to their chat thing?  i thought about it, just bc i am curious... have gotten tons of glbt emails from them.  makes me wonder what they're going for.

i got some diversity-call email from HLS a few months ago, so i threw in an app just for the hell of it.  but i think harvard is swarming with dykes so i'm not really sure why they feel they've got to recruit more.  but i figured, hell why not.

i'd stay away from regent. 

do any of y'all have any thoughts at all about USD, though?  ??? catholic and conservative, sure... but they do have a pride law...

don't know how the school is, but san diego, while very conservative politically, is very socially tolerant. have been out and about there for nearly 14 years, and can say that while it is no los angeles (thank god) or san fran (too bad) it certainly has a thriving life...
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: NYClawyer09 on February 18, 2006, 05:25:05 PM
I did.  And they all (top tier) accepted me AND offered me money.  Yes, even Fordham, that bastion of Jesuit goodness.  And though I don't want to do public interest, they even offered me public interest scholarships.  The whole profession is looking to diversify.  I plan to play this card for the partner track, too.

The key is to do it in a thoughtful way.  Stating that life discriminated against you will not do the trick.  Saying that witnessing your uncle - friend/mentor/teacher - die of AIDS changed your (gay) life, will.

If you really want to stand out, don't behave like a knee-jerk, liberal homo, either.  Throw some right-leaning bones into the essay so they know you actually have a brain.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Yale College Inferno on February 18, 2006, 06:19:30 PM
If you really want to stand out, don't behave like a knee-jerk, liberal homo, either.  Throw some right-leaning bones into the essay so they know you actually have a brain.

"And it was during the summer I spent fundraising for the Log Cabin Republicans that I discovered my passion for the law..."
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SFnative on February 21, 2006, 04:17:50 AM
If you really want to stand out, don't behave like a knee-jerk, liberal homo, either.  Throw some right-leaning bones into the essay so they know you actually have a brain.

"And it was during the summer I spent fundraising for the Log Cabin Republicans that I discovered my passion for the law..."

LOL, the Log Cabin Reps are trying to carve out an ideological niche for the LGBT populations on the right which is not necessarily bad for the LGBT movement. Sometimes, the government does need to move out of the bedroom. We shouldnt be tooo hard on them ;)
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on February 21, 2006, 09:21:54 PM
I did.  And they all (top tier) accepted me AND offered me money.  Yes, even Fordham, that bastion of Jesuit goodness.  And though I don't want to do public interest, they even offered me public interest scholarships.  The whole profession is looking to diversify.  I plan to play this card for the partner track, too.

The key is to do it in a thoughtful way.  Stating that life discriminated against you will not do the trick.  Saying that witnessing your uncle - friend/mentor/teacher - die of AIDS changed your (gay) life, will.

If you really want to stand out, don't behave like a knee-jerk, liberal homo, either.  Throw some right-leaning bones into the essay so they know you actually have a brain.

In my personal statement I didn't write that "life discriminated against" me. I did mention actual acts of discrimination against me because of my sexuality, not for the sake of drama but to show how I overcame them. I don't see how a story about some acquaintance of mine dying of AIDS would trump that. (Associating gays with AIDS... I'm not that much of a knee-jerk, conservative homo.)

And right-leaning bones = having a brain?
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: SFnative on February 23, 2006, 04:13:56 AM
I got the Oklahoma gay spam bomb today as well.

haha did anyone go to their chat thing?  i thought about it, just bc i am curious... have gotten tons of glbt emails from them.  makes me wonder what they're going for.

i got some diversity-call email from HLS a few months ago, so i threw in an app just for the hell of it.  but i think harvard is swarming with dykes so i'm not really sure why they feel they've got to recruit more.  but i figured, hell why not.

i'd stay away from regent. 

do any of y'all have any thoughts at all about USD, though?  ??? catholic and conservative, sure... but they do have a pride law...

don't know how the school is, but san diego, while very conservative politically, is very socially tolerant. have been out and about there for nearly 14 years, and can say that while it is no los angeles (thank god) or san fran (too bad) it certainly has a thriving life...

I think SD, unlike SF, varies alot in life style because its so vast. The more in-land part, I wouldnt characterize as socially tolerant but certainly along the coast. Where do you live mobo? I was in La Jolla, wasnt feeling it, then moved to University Heights/Hillcrest and loved it there ;) Naturally. AH, I do miss sd sometimes too bad it doesnt have a top notch law school.

Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: ashke14 on March 01, 2006, 07:33:51 PM
Hey all.  First time post, because I just had to laugh.  I actually did intern with LCR at their DC office this summer (an amazing experience, honestly - they're phenomenal guys doing some really great work) and that was a significant part of my PS.  Seems to be working well, though it's early to talk - I applied rather late in the game, and only just heard back from my first school, an acceptance at Fordham yesterday.  I have to agree with the above poster who said that showing yourself to be something other than a kneejerk liberal is probably a good idea, whatever your politics - an advisor of mine liked the fact that I tossed in a reference to my work within Christian groups on campus.  Anything to provide a unique angle, I guess.

Curious, anybody on here going for a Point Foundation scholarship?
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on March 01, 2006, 08:51:54 PM
Hey all.  First time post, because I just had to laugh.  I actually did intern with LCR at their DC office this summer (an amazing experience, honestly - they're phenomenal guys doing some really great work) and that was a significant part of my PS.  Seems to be working well, though it's early to talk - I applied rather late in the game, and only just heard back from my first school, an acceptance at Fordham yesterday.  I have to agree with the above poster who said that showing yourself to be something other than a kneejerk liberal is probably a good idea, whatever your politics - an advisor of mine liked the fact that I tossed in a reference to my work within Christian groups on campus.  Anything to provide a unique angle, I guess.

Curious, anybody on here going for a Point Foundation scholarship?

I have no idea what a "kneejerk liberal" is. When does one cease to be a thoughtful person with a genuine commitment to progressive values and become "kneejerk"?

As an application reader, I think I would be much more impressed with a candidate who can show how he acts on his beliefs, rather than a middle-of-the-road type who tries to win everybody over by "throwing right-leaning bones".

I also disagree with the implication that being Christian is somehow inconsistent with being liberal.

Sorry to come down on your first post... but welcome to LSD! ;)
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: ashke14 on March 01, 2006, 10:29:27 PM
Hey Odaiko, and thanks for the greeting.  Forgive the miscommunication on my part - by referencing my work with campus religious groups, I was not implying that that was a part of my conservatism, but rather as an example of being willing to reach out to groups that typically are conservative (at least on glbt issues).  That certainly is/was the case on my campus, at least.  It is a point of distinction from "kneejerk" glbt liberal activism to be willing to talk reasonably to people of faith who disagree with you... I am not tarring all passionate liberals with this brush (I dearly love several such people, and love debating them nearly as much!) but surely you know of the folks who haunt queer clubs and seem to live for radical leftist politics, railing against "the rethugs" or painting all people of faith as ignorant fools, believing that nothing good has come out of religion since its inception?  That fringe group, sadly enough, is something of a stereotype of the gay rights activist, and anybody who demonstrates any sort of overt pride has to combat that image.  That's all I meant when I advocated that people show something counter to that expectation - it may help to make their thoughtful natures clear.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Yale College Inferno on March 02, 2006, 09:18:34 PM
example of a kneejerk liberal:

A liberal who eyes a superstud in a bar, feels his heart start pounding when Mr. Stud walks over and starts chatting him up, and then upon learning that Mr. Stud is a Republican, loses all interest and needs another drink.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on March 04, 2006, 08:15:41 PM
example of a kneejerk liberal:

A liberal who eyes a superstud in a bar, feels his heart start pounding when Mr. Stud walks over and starts chatting him up, and then upon learning that Mr. Stud is a Republican, loses all interest and needs another drink.

I tried dating a Republican.  Trust me, it's better to lose all interest immediately.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: joespecial on March 04, 2006, 10:34:15 PM
I don't think I could be turned on by a gay person who was self-hating enough to be a Republican. I think that would be kind of repugnant.

Maybe if it were a straight guy who was drunk and felt me up, that might work...
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Yale College Inferno on March 05, 2006, 06:06:01 AM
I tried dating a Republican.  Trust me, it's better to lose all interest immediately.

I once dated a Republican, former underwear model.
It was bad.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: lww02 on March 14, 2006, 01:33:39 PM
I never noticed this thread until now.  My undergrad EC record is gay central, so i had that on my resume, and i played the queer card at schools that had some kind of specialty in gender/sexuality law.

but more important, how come everyone on LSD is queer? seriously.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: joespecial on March 14, 2006, 02:30:29 PM
but more important, how come everyone on LSD is queer? seriously.

You've got to be kidding.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Miss P on March 14, 2006, 02:42:21 PM
but more important, how come everyone on LSD is queer? seriously.

You've got to be kidding.

Hear, hear.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on March 15, 2006, 08:34:13 AM
but more important, how come everyone on LSD is queer? seriously.

You've got to be kidding.

Yeah.  I posted one thing on another board about the dyke community at a school, and someone instantly knew it was me, because there are so few people on these boards who are (or talk about being) queer women.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: motheroftaurasi on March 15, 2006, 08:45:30 AM
example of a kneejerk liberal:

A liberal who eyes a superstud in a bar, feels his heart start pounding when Mr. Stud walks over and starts chatting him up, and then upon learning that Mr. Stud is a Republican, loses all interest and needs another drink.

I'd probably get more turned on. It's like when I get turned on by Yankees...evil is sexy.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on March 15, 2006, 08:50:14 AM
but more important, how come everyone on LSD is queer? seriously.

You've got to be kidding.

Yeah.  I posted one thing on another board about the dyke community at a school, and someone instantly knew it was me, because there are so few people on these boards who are (or talk about being) queer women.

are you in undergrad now?  where do you go?  i bet we know some of the same people.

queer communities are so incestuous...... ::)

SO incestuous.    :-\  There needs to be a seven sisters chart.

I was '04 at Vassar.  And we probably do know some of the same people.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Yale College Inferno on March 18, 2006, 07:41:39 AM
but more important, how come everyone on LSD is queer? seriously.

You've got to be kidding.

Hear, hear.

All the hot ones are straight.
Title: minority students event
Post by: incognito on March 20, 2006, 08:16:38 AM
Anyone attending a minority students event?  I was invited to one at my top choice and RSVP'd but feel a little odd about it because, while I am an out gay man, I am also a white middle class male.  I'll be a minority at the minority event, which may be an educational experience for me.  I've spoken with outlaw people at the school and they reassured me that it will be cool, that the event is more for parents (as a non-trad that shocked me because the thought of bringing my parents never even crossed my mind).
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: dawn french on March 28, 2006, 06:46:22 AM
Anyone think they're going to Rutgers Newark - I'm afraid I'll be the only gay in the village!!!
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: Miss P on March 28, 2006, 09:21:52 AM
Well, there's a student organization -- Rutgers Gay and Lesbian Caucus or something. I hope there are some members.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: heybrent on April 17, 2006, 04:18:15 PM
example of a kneejerk liberal:

A liberal who eyes a superstud in a bar, feels his heart start pounding when Mr. Stud walks over and starts chatting him up, and then upon learning that Mr. Stud is a Republican, loses all interest and needs another drink.

I'd probably get more turned on. It's like when I get turned on by Yankees...evil is sexy.

This has so happened to me.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: trogdor on April 18, 2006, 07:59:29 AM
tag

i hadn't seen this thread until now.  i took a long hiatus from lsd because it truly is like crack, particularly early in the application cycle.  anyway, i thought i'd add my bit about the original post.  my ps focused solely on being gay and how that has affected my perceptions and life.  it had nothing to do with law or my career aspirations.  my goals were twofold: 1) to provide a different perspective to adcomms other than that presented in the hard numbers and impersonal resume and 2) reaffirmation for myself.  i come from a conservative background in every sense, so i mainly focused on how this has influenced my perceptions and how i was affected by it growing up until present day.  i don't really think this is an attempt to "play the gay card" as some have suggested but more so to provide a deeper insight into who i am as a person and being gay was certainly important in shaping who i am today -- not because of some intrinsic difference (other than the fact that i like guys) but because of the experiences that follow the labels.  as far as the adcomms perceptions, i didn't care whether it was frowned upon because if a school didn't want me because i was gay, i definitely didn't want to go to that school anyway.  however, my app cycle turned out pretty well, and i have no regrets.  i don't think it hurt.  did it help?  perhaps, but i doubt it.  good luck to everyone in law school! 
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: heybrent on April 18, 2006, 02:02:23 PM
Rollcall... where's everyone going to school??

hls
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on April 18, 2006, 02:04:40 PM
Rollcall... where's everyone going to school??

hls

Me too.  :)

But I hear they have very few dykes.  :'(
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: heybrent on April 18, 2006, 02:42:38 PM
Rollcall... where's everyone going to school??

hls

Me too.  :)

But I hear they have very few dykes.  :'(

were you at the april admit weekend?  i met a few there.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on April 18, 2006, 02:46:21 PM
Rollcall... where's everyone going to school??

hls

Me too.  :)

But I hear they have very few dykes.  :'(

were you at the april admit weekend?  i met a few there.

I was at the march one, where I was told that in the 3L class there's only one, and only three or four in most classes.   :-\  There were three women at the glbtq dinner and around twenty men.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on April 18, 2006, 02:49:08 PM
i've heard that too.  but the div school is apparently SWARMING.  and there are plenty of dykes in boston.... i would not be worried if i were you.  congrats  :)

 :D  My ex goes to the div school.   :-[
Title: Re: minority students event
Post by: ladymuscadet on April 18, 2006, 03:34:40 PM
Anyone attending a minority students event?  I was invited to one at my top choice and RSVP'd but feel a little odd about it because, while I am an out gay man, I am also a white middle class male.  I'll be a minority at the minority event, which may be an educational experience for me.  I've spoken with outlaw people at the school and they reassured me that it will be cool, that the event is more for parents (as a non-trad that shocked me because the thought of bringing my parents never even crossed my mind).

incognito--I started reading this thread from the beginning and you made a comment on the first page in August 2005 and said "first post! please oh please don't let me get addicted to this site." I couldn't help but laugh when I skipped to this last page, read this comment by you from March 06, and saw that you've made over 270 posts since your first comment. This site is seriously addictive!
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: absy on April 18, 2006, 08:20:40 PM
su, I'm really hoping we'll have an increased batch of lesbian 1Ls this year.  I've met or talked to a good number of admits.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: The Dread Pirate Roberts on April 19, 2006, 09:09:26 AM
su, I'm really hoping we'll have an increased batch of lesbian 1Ls this year.  I've met or talked to a good number of admits.

 ;D  Nice.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: ibroadrunr on April 19, 2006, 09:16:40 AM
tag
Title: Re: minority students event
Post by: incognito on April 19, 2006, 10:30:53 AM
Anyone attending a minority students event?  I was invited to one at my top choice and RSVP'd but feel a little odd about it because, while I am an out gay man, I am also a white middle class male.  I'll be a minority at the minority event, which may be an educational experience for me.  I've spoken with outlaw people at the school and they reassured me that it will be cool, that the event is more for parents (as a non-trad that shocked me because the thought of bringing my parents never even crossed my mind).

incognito--I started reading this thread from the beginning and you made a comment on the first page in August 2005 and said "first post! please oh please don't let me get addicted to this site." I couldn't help but laugh when I skipped to this last page, read this comment by you from March 06, and saw that you've made over 270 posts since your first comment. This site is seriously addictive!

I know I know!  It really is only one post a day.  For 271 days.   ;D

And as for the roll call, I'll be at Duke but if you are going to UNC or NCCU also drop me a PM. 
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: caligal on April 19, 2006, 09:52:52 PM
on the roll call --

UC Davis here, anyone going feel free to contact me.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: odaiko on April 19, 2006, 10:03:57 PM
Any gay people going to Northwestern? I'm starting to get nervous...  I only sniffed out one or two gay people at the admitted student weekend. :-\
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: ashke14 on April 20, 2006, 01:32:16 AM
Trying.  Waitlisted, but trying, Odaiko.  Clearly we're URM there - put in a good word for me? *grins*
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: slacker on April 24, 2006, 09:11:57 PM
Odaiko - last year Northwestern had close to 10 gay 1Ls. That's a pretty respectable number; don't give up home.
Title: Re: Homosexual PS
Post by: kdiz81 on May 02, 2006, 02:50:21 PM
Any lesbians headed to USC or Colorado???  I am leaning toward USC but maybe you could convince me....