Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: Nemesis on July 18, 2005, 03:18:55 PM

Title: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Nemesis on July 18, 2005, 03:18:55 PM
... Also, in the work force, why would an employer willingly want to employ someone that may be underqualified? If you have two applicants and one is VERY much qualified, and you have a minority, the employer may pick the minority just to get "diversity" but in the end the other workers have to pick up his slack because he has no clue what he is doing. Just because you apply for a certain job does not mean that you are qualified to fill it...

I avoided the AA debate for as long as I could, but I can't believe there are people out here who think like this. To be honest, I feel like I'd have to pick up some slack my self, and it's not isolated to people of color...

Maybe I just need to vent...

*deep breath*
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 18, 2005, 03:20:38 PM
Annabel, ignore the AA threads.  that's what I do.  no use talking to a brick wall.  keep your head up. 
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: dbgirl on July 18, 2005, 03:21:36 PM
Annabel, there are people on this board who just say flat-out racist stuff.
I know what you mean about picking up slack though ... I have worked with my share of underqualified white people.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Nemesis on July 18, 2005, 03:27:00 PM
Underqualified white males, who I've STILL had to compete with because my (white male) manager liked to talk about football and I was clueless. I had to work my BUTT off.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: dividebyzero on July 18, 2005, 03:31:29 PM
"Hiya, I'm a white, upper-middle class, Anglo-Saxon protestant male, who doesn't have the first clue about racism...That being said, lemme tell you why AA is racist."

Is what they're *not* saying in those discussions, therefore, I ignore them as well.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ScurvyWench on July 18, 2005, 03:44:19 PM
It's amazing how many of the clueless/racists/bigots on this board are actually going to become lawyers. It's actually very scary.

I understand how you feel, particularly when you know that *YOU'RE* the one picking up slack for others. (As is the case, quite frequently). The only thing you can do is ignore them. Don't waste your time fighting every battle that comes your way, pick the ones that have meat and win with intelligence. I'm sure you can do it.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Nemesis on July 18, 2005, 05:16:35 PM
Just what we need. to create more problems that WE need to pay for in the future. Some little black kid HAD to learn ebonics now the MAN is keeping him down. OMG!! This is messed up. What the heck is EBONICS anyways? Why would ANYONE in their right mind want to learn this? Can they put it on their resume like French and Russian as foreign language? Lol, now THAT would be messed up. When this kids get to high school, college, and worse, law school, they won't be able to compete, and then want URM status and all that jazz. Just what we need, to perpetuate the problem! ::) :o
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Gary Glitter on July 18, 2005, 05:59:39 PM
"Hiya, I'm a white, upper-middle class, Anglo-Saxon protestant male, who doesn't have the first clue about racism...That being said, lemme tell you why AA is racist."

Is what they're *not* saying in those discussions, therefore, I ignore them as well.

the irony here of course is that you yourself just made a bigoted / racist comment using socio-economic and racial distinctions to create an overly broad de-individualizing generalization of a specific group.

thanks to you, i now know what racism is, and feel that i am now qualified to discuss AA in a heartfelt, responsible, and intelligent manner ...

by the way, you are not allowed to discuss social security until you are old, nor are you allowed to complain about the current taxation system until you are rich (and i'm talking top 1%) - furthermore, your opinions on medicare, HMOs, etc. will be completlely invalid unless you yourself are sick and suffering ... DMOs? yeah, those teeth better be rotting
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: twarga on July 18, 2005, 06:07:50 PM
I've been a paralegal for 9 years, and a legal secretary for a few years in college, so I've worked with a lot of lawyers.  Some are good, some are bad, most are competent at their jobs.  The horribly incompetent ones (and they stick out in my mind, even after many years) varied by age, sex, and race, as did the most outstanding. 

In fact, it was by working with some of these incompetent morons that I got the confidence to go to law school myself.  I figure, if they made it through, I certainly can.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: LegalLassie on July 18, 2005, 07:28:24 PM
I've been a paralegal for 9 years, and a legal secretary for a few years in college, so I've worked with a lot of lawyers.  Some are good, some are bad, most are competent at their jobs.  The horribly incompetent ones (and they stick out in my mind, even after many years) varied by age, sex, and race, as did the most outstanding. 

In fact, it was by working with some of these incompetent morons that I got the confidence to go to law school myself.  I figure, if they made it through, I certainly can.

Here here Twarga.  Those were my feelings exactly while working in law enforcement.  Idiocy and incompetence do not discriminate. 
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 06:54:52 AM
First of all, I am NOT a rascist. ANd how do you know where I fall on the big ole race spectrum we seem to have in this country? Besides, you saying that I do NOT have any knowledge of rascism is PREPOSTEROUS! You have no clue what I have knowledge of.

I think that by always getting mad at people for having differing opinions than yourself, YOU are the one perpetuating rascism, not me.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: _BP_ on July 19, 2005, 07:32:25 AM

... Also, in the work force, why would an employer willingly want to employ someone that may be underqualified? If you have two applicants and one is VERY much qualified, and you have a minority, the employer may pick the minority just to get "diversity" but in the end the other workers have to pick up his slack because he has no clue what he is doing. Just because you apply for a certain job does not mean that you are qualified to fill it...



You do know that when employers willingly employ someone that is underqualified it is far more likely to be a white person right?  Here is some info from two interesting studies.  They speak to the fact that given two candidates, one white and one black, the white one often stands a better chance of not only landing an interview, but coming away with the job:

1) A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.
A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.

Who do you think is more likely to be called back?

If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.  Black men who had never been in trouble with the law were about half as likely as whites with similar backgrounds to get a job offer or a callback.

2)Now a "field experiment" by NBER Faculty Research Fellows Marianne Bertrand and Sendhil Mullainathan measures this discrimination in a novel way. In response to help-wanted ads in Chicago and Boston newspapers, they sent resumes with either African-American- or white-sounding names and then measured the number of callbacks each resume received for interviews. Thus, they experimentally manipulated perception of race via the name on the resume. Half of the applicants were assigned African-American names that are "remarkably common" in the black population, the other half white sounding names.

There was a 50 percent difference in callback rates.  The 50 percent gap in callback rates is statistically very significant, Bertrand and Mullainathan note in Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination (NBER Working Paper No. 9873). It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience
3)
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 07:42:03 AM
racism is spelled... R-A-C-I-S-M

racist is spelled... R-A-C-I-S-T

that is all.... :-\
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2005, 07:43:29 AM
First of all, I am NOT a rascist. ANd how do you know where I fall on the big ole race spectrum we seem to have in this country? Besides, you saying that I do NOT have any knowledge of rascism is PREPOSTEROUS! You have no clue what I have knowledge of.

I think that by always getting mad at people for having differing opinions than yourself, YOU are the one perpetuating rascism, not me.

I never called you a racist. And, just so you know, racists come in all sizes, colors and shapes.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 07:59:41 AM
Haven't you ever heard of tinting the results to be in your OWN favor, Most studies are doing that these days. When was it ever practice to be honest in results? Figures you would find a study on YOUR side of the topic.....
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: InVinoVeritas on July 19, 2005, 08:20:17 AM
Haven't you ever heard of tinting the results to be in your OWN favor, Most studies are doing that these days. When was it ever practice to be honest in results? Figures you would find a study on YOUR side of the topic.....

what you're suggesting is intellectual dishonesty, which is something i wouldn't accuse most scientists of doing.  does it happen? of course.  but not as much as you think.  moreover, it's pretty easy to tell when someone is intentionally doctoring or unduly manipulating data.  those folks usually start out with an ideological bent they're unwilling to relinquish.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 08:37:46 AM
I think that ALL social scientists' study are biased in favor of whatever it is they are seeking. I really do think this, and it seems that this is mostly the case as well.

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/346bias.html
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 08:40:57 AM
well I know one thing.. the number of African Americans obtaining professional degrees is very low... that case study isn't a lie
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 08:41:52 AM
Maybe they should look at how many are applying and how many get in, if there arent many applying then of COURSE there aren't many getting in.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: InVinoVeritas on July 19, 2005, 08:42:34 AM
maybe you should read more studies that are so politically loaded.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: YoungIke on July 19, 2005, 08:57:30 AM
Ok, another "How does it feel to be Black?" thread. It feels quite nice. Why must we answer this question every time we come into a diverse environment of elite status? Yes, there are lacks of Black applicants to professional schools. This is because many don't get that far. A lot, of times it is not because they are not qualified but because it is not in our values and or economic vision to spend forever in school. We are trained to gain a well paying job and give back. We are trying to change these traditions and we on this board are the trail blazers. Thank you for your concern for our well being, but as your opinions are just those opinions, we thank you for them. Peace
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 08:58:40 AM
I am not reading any studies for that, I am merely suggesting that if people want to see whether minorities are underrepresented and discriminated in law school admissions, they should look at how many are applying and how many are getting in, across the board for whites too and then compare, wouldn't that give better results.?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2005, 09:02:00 AM
I am not reading any studies for that, I am merely suggesting that if people want to see whether minorities are underrepresented and discriminated in law school admissions, they should look at how many are applying and how many are getting in, across the board for whites too and then compare, wouldn't that give better results.?

I don't feel like picking up your slack. You find the study and come back when you have an argument.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 09:05:23 AM
I don't KNOW if there is a study of that, I am suggesting that someone COULD do one like that. I am not telling someone to find it or do it or anything, I was talking about a response I had made. And NO one ever has to pick up my slack, when I am told to get something done at work I do it, and in a timely manner and efficient. In fact, they are having a hard time keeping uup with me.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: YoungIke on July 19, 2005, 09:06:48 AM
Many studies only show you the what, not the why. If you really want to find the root you must find the why. When you find that you will understand a lot more. And I will give you a hint. The why has nothing to do with slavery. Blacks were the most prosperous in the period directly after slavery. Do a study of SNCC, the Panthers and other radical groups and you will see that their demise led to an exploitation and an influx of drugs and gang culture perpetuated by some government, mafia, and other factions. And that is just the tip of the iceberg of the systematic genocide on the black community commonly referred to as the M.A.A.F.A..

I am not reading any studies for that, I am merely suggesting that if people want to see whether minorities are underrepresented and discriminated in law school admissions, they should look at how many are applying and how many are getting in, across the board for whites too and then compare, wouldn't that give better results.?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: _BP_ on July 19, 2005, 09:09:09 AM
Haven't you ever heard of tinting the results to be in your OWN favor, Most studies are doing that these days. When was it ever practice to be honest in results? Figures you would find a study on YOUR side of the topic.....

One was done by professors at MIT (edit: along with professors from the University of chicago Graduate School of Business), and the other one by a watch group.  It is interesting how you would find it easier to discount the studies on their face instead of even considering its merits.  Feel free to post a study on YOUR side of the topic.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 09:25:49 AM
Forget about the "studies." Just deal with the cards that you are dealt and don't look for any aces to come flying at you from under the table.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: _BP_ on July 19, 2005, 09:29:10 AM
Forget about the "studies." Just deal with the cards that you are dealt and don't look for any aces to come flying at you from under the table.

Okay, will do.  Let's forget about anything that discounts your initial assertion.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2005, 09:30:10 AM
...when I am told to get something done at work I do it, and in a timely manner and efficient. In fact, they are having a hard time keeping uup with me.

But do you always what until someone tells you??? Perhaps you should be proactive as opposed to reactive.

Oh, and usually, when people are having a hard time keeping up with you, you're doing a half-a$$ job. But I'm sure you're very unusual  ;)

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 10:48:41 AM
You don't even know WHAT my work is. And I don't think that you have room to criticize, just because you are the one that has a problem with what other people are saying. Don't worry, when you are slacking off, I'm SURE someone will get your back, but you willl be too busy being a jerk to notice.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: YoungIke on July 19, 2005, 10:53:57 AM
Hey Vinny I was a little disappointed you didn't attack my statemets. I come to love you for the great opposition you display.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 10:55:14 AM
I did not attack what you wrote because it seems that I sort of agree with you. You are saying that the black on black violence is the cause of these children turning away from education and Towards drugs. I think Bill Cosby also said this?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: YoungIke on July 19, 2005, 10:58:08 AM
Ok we do agree, however I am blaming that so-called "black on black" thing on the so-called "Man"   ;)
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: YoungIke on July 19, 2005, 10:58:47 AM
More the Micheal Eric Dyson Thing
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2005, 11:50:55 AM
You don't even know WHAT my work is. And I don't think that you have room to criticize, just because you are the one that has a problem with what other people are saying. Don't worry, when you are slacking off, I'm SURE someone will get your back, but you willl be too busy being a jerk to notice.


I was just dying to have you call me a jerk. I think epitomizes IRONY  :D
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: dbgirl on July 19, 2005, 11:57:34 AM
I get the feeling people like Vinny don't have any minority friends. I don't think people who actually spend a lot of time talking to or working with black people would make such blanket racist statements.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 01:14:43 PM
I am NOT making racist comments, and I have "minority" friends. Maybe you are too caught up in yourself to believe that people can have their own opinions about things?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 01:30:31 PM
oooh something in common.. i have "minority" friends too :D :D :D.. can you count how many you have?

I am NOT making racist comments, and I have "minority" friends. Maybe you are too caught up in yourself to believe that people can have their own opinions about things?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: YoungIke on July 19, 2005, 01:32:10 PM
1,2,3,4,5... sh#t that's enough! -D.L. Hughley-

oooh something in common.. i have "minority" friends too :D :D :D.. can you count how many you have?

I am NOT making racist comments, and I have "minority" friends. Maybe you are too caught up in yourself to believe that people can have their own opinions about things?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 02:02:24 PM
I don't need to count them for your sake. I knwo I have them, and it doesn't matter to me whether they are minority or not, they are my friends and that's all I think of them as, no more beyond the skin color garbage, it doesn't matter to me.
Yet again, I state, I don't hate you because your skin color, but because of YOU. That is the way I see things, although I cannot actually say that I hate anyone really.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 19, 2005, 02:03:48 PM
I don't need to count them for your sake. I knwo I have them, and it doesn't matter to me whether they are minority or not, they are my friends and that's all I think of them as, no more beyond the skin color garbage, it doesn't matter to me.
Yet again, I state, I don't hate you because your skin color, but because of YOU. That is the way I see things, although I cannot actually say that I hate anyone really.

that's cool.  one of my best friends kinda looks like you
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 02:05:37 PM
And how do you know what I look like? Just curious, not trying to be mean.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 02:10:44 PM
i asked you because it's insane to me for a person to make a point to say "i have minority friends".. that's always hilarious to me...  :D :D :D :D



I don't need to count them for your sake. I knwo I have them, and it doesn't matter to me whether they are minority or not, they are my friends and that's all I think of them as, no more beyond the skin color garbage, it doesn't matter to me.
Yet again, I state, I don't hate you because your skin color, but because of YOU. That is the way I see things, although I cannot actually say that I hate anyone really.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 02:11:34 PM
Well do you have nonURM friends? How about that then?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 19, 2005, 02:14:07 PM
And how do you know what I look like? Just curious, not trying to be mean.

I have my ways.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 02:21:40 PM
Then you are obviously wrong in your assumptions. What do you THINK that I look like?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 02:24:31 PM
i have all types of friends.. from all parts of the world..different socioeconomic status etc etc...


Well do you have nonURM friends? How about that then?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 19, 2005, 02:31:15 PM
Interesting how you seem to actually group your friends, why would someone do that?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 02:32:43 PM

don't group my friends at all playa..

Interesting how you seem to actually group your friends, why would someone do that?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 19, 2005, 06:21:20 PM
Then you are obviously wrong in your assumptions. What do you THINK that I look like?

no I'm not.  what do you think I think you look like?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 06:24:11 PM
 :D :D :D


Then you are obviously wrong in your assumptions. What do you THINK that I look like?

no I'm not.  what do you think I think you look like?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Gary Glitter on July 19, 2005, 06:57:38 PM
hmm maybe about six feet tall, blonde hair with penchant for white shirts and backwards hats, loves short shorts -has a wicked jump shot from behind the arc but doesn't quiet have the "upps" to dunk that bad boy

loves hispanic women who are good with trivia

likes to play a little pick up ball with a guy by the name of sydney deane

yeah he probably looks a little like that - they all do
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 20, 2005, 08:23:17 AM
You are DEFINATELY wrong there! Why would you care what I look like anyways?
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: Gary Glitter on July 20, 2005, 05:23:44 PM
(i was being sarcastic)
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 20, 2005, 08:24:26 PM
vinnie man relaxxxx.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: TrojanChispas on July 21, 2005, 12:32:39 AM
Vinny is a troll (period)

Go back to Simi Valley or wherever you came from
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 21, 2005, 06:54:42 AM
I am not a troll, and I don't even know where Simi Valley is.
I think you are just discriminating against me because I have a different viewpoint then all of you. This just goes to show that black on black hate crimes ARE more prevalent then white on black.
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 21, 2005, 06:56:57 AM
I am not a troll, and I don't even know where Simi Valley is.
I think you are just discriminating against me because I have a different viewpoint then all of you. This just goes to show that black on black hate crimes ARE more prevalent then white on black.

.....be easy
Title: Re: Why does this make me mad?
Post by: ImVinny! on July 21, 2005, 07:06:47 AM
It's true.


Anyways, it seems to me that some people just can't accept that their are differing views of things in the world. I understand there are people that totally conflict with what I believe, yet I don't go around berrating them, calling them things like troll. Yuo are just making yourself look juvenille, and this is not an attack, just a comment that I am noticing around here. People just can't seem to realize that there is a world beyond the end of their nose. Why do you think we have a COngress, because there are differing views form all over the country and people need representation for each and every view. Get over yourself and realize that YOU are NOT the only view in America, and you go around tauting your free-speech like it's water, well, then take your own advice and let others have a voice as well.