Law School Discussion

Law Students => Incoming 1Ls => Topic started by: ruskiegirl on May 31, 2004, 10:23:12 PM

Title: Food Stamps
Post by: ruskiegirl on May 31, 2004, 10:23:12 PM
I heard that grad/law students were eligible for food stamps (assuming they have low or no income).  Is this true?

I'm poor and God knows my parents pay enough taxes, so if the program is available to me, I would definitely take advantage of it.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: thechoson on May 31, 2004, 10:26:14 PM
So would I, I really want to know about this
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: cal4ever on May 31, 2004, 10:32:05 PM
Hmm... this sounds like a good idea.  I wonder if we do qualify.  I found this website with some information about who can qualify for food stamps.

http://library.lp.findlaw.com/articles/file/00045/006675/title/Subject/topic/Government%20Law_Federal%20Benefits/filename/governmentlaw_2_47
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: ruskiegirl on May 31, 2004, 10:48:57 PM
Hmm... this sounds like a good idea.  I wonder if we do qualify.  I found this website with some information about who can qualify for food stamps.

http://library.lp.findlaw.com/articles/file/00045/006675/title/Subject/topic/Government%20Law_Federal%20Benefits/filename/governmentlaw_2_47

Looks like it's worth a try.  It would be nice to decrease loans by at least what we would spend on food, since it is one of the largest categories of expense.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on May 31, 2004, 11:10:45 PM
just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

I can't imagine rolling into a grocery store and trying to pay with food stamps.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: ruskiegirl on May 31, 2004, 11:15:53 PM
Dude, when you are borrowing 54k/yr saving 6k on food stamps is a substantial amount.  I don't think it's "working the system."  If you're poor and qualify, there's nothing wrong with getting them. 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on May 31, 2004, 11:16:53 PM
I dunno... I just don't think social welfare systems are there for law students
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: thechoson on May 31, 2004, 11:23:05 PM
Pride? I have no pride.  I will go to the grocery store, and bust out those food stamps, if it means I can eat something other than peanut butter or ramen noodles.  My freshman year in college, I ate cereal twice a day (cheap at costco) this wasn't fun.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: ruskiegirl on May 31, 2004, 11:26:39 PM
I dunno... I just don't think social welfare systems are there for law students
Why not?  It's temporary relief to those who are unable to pay for food otherwise. That describes many law students. Obviously, I don't plan to use it after law school. 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Batman on May 31, 2004, 11:55:19 PM
Long time reader, first time poster...

I would feel pretty strange trying to use food stamps to pay for my groceries lining up behind an unemployed single mom with 6 kids.

It was my decision to go out of state for law school. A lot of welfare users don't have the luxury of choice.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: thechoson on June 01, 2004, 12:00:49 AM
Long time reader, first time poster...

I would feel pretty strange trying to use food stamps to pay for my groceries lining up behind an unemployed single mom with 6 kids.

It was my decision to go out of state for law school. A lot of welfare users don't have the luxury of choice.

You know, I would expect nothing less from Batman.  Keep up the good work, you are my hero!
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: cal4ever on June 01, 2004, 12:13:11 AM
Pride? I have no pride.  I will go to the grocery store, and bust out those food stamps, if it means I can eat something other than peanut butter or ramen noodles.  My freshman year in college, I ate cereal twice a day (cheap at costco) this wasn't fun.

I'm still eating ramen and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.  So, I guess my diet during law school won't change much. 

I think that going to college is the best way to lose weight.  The college diet:  Drink lots of coffee.  Eat ramen 2x a day.  Buy an extra large pizza on Sunday, eat it for lunch and dinner for the rest of the week.  Or, just sleep off the hunger.

 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: thechoson on June 01, 2004, 12:49:43 AM
Pride? I have no pride.  I will go to the grocery store, and bust out those food stamps, if it means I can eat something other than peanut butter or ramen noodles.  My freshman year in college, I ate cereal twice a day (cheap at costco) this wasn't fun.

I'm still eating ramen and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.  So, I guess my diet during law school won't change much. 

I think that going to college is the best way to lose weight.  The college diet:  Drink lots of coffee.  Eat ramen 2x a day.  Buy an extra large pizza on Sunday, eat it for lunch and dinner for the rest of the week.  Or, just sleep off the hunger.

 

Hmm... hopefully you don't burn too many calories, or you might die
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: cal4ever on June 01, 2004, 12:58:55 AM
Pride? I have no pride.  I will go to the grocery store, and bust out those food stamps, if it means I can eat something other than peanut butter or ramen noodles.  My freshman year in college, I ate cereal twice a day (cheap at costco) this wasn't fun.

I'm still eating ramen and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.  So, I guess my diet during law school won't change much. 

I think that going to college is the best way to lose weight.  The college diet:  Drink lots of coffee.  Eat ramen 2x a day.  Buy an extra large pizza on Sunday, eat it for lunch and dinner for the rest of the week.  Or, just sleep off the hunger.

 

Hmm... hopefully you don't burn too many calories, or you might die

i need to change my diet.  like ruskiegirl, i'm fortunate to have good genes.  so, weight has not been an issue for me, but i definitely need to eat healthier! 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: ruskiegirl on June 01, 2004, 01:21:26 AM
My dining plan at Berkeley:

breakfast: a glass or orange of cranberry juice (i get sick from solid food in the morning)

lunch: a bento box from a good japanese place (hopefully for under 7 bucks)
dinner: something Russian that I will make enough of to last me the whole week
snack: something good and greasy: chips, fries, etc.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: M2 on June 01, 2004, 07:50:25 AM
If food stamps will help you get through lawschool then it is definitely worth looking into...

Why? becaause guess who will be paying a large amount of taxes on a 80-120k income...

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Boxergirl on June 01, 2004, 08:08:10 AM
i SERIOUSLY doubt that this is true.  that's just ridiculous!
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: M2 on June 01, 2004, 09:55:07 AM
i SERIOUSLY doubt that this is true.  that's just ridiculous!

Actually it is true...anyone that is legally independent (i.e. 24 or older) with a sufficiently low enough income is elligible.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 10:12:44 AM
Long time reader, first time poster...

I would feel pretty strange trying to use food stamps to pay for my groceries lining up behind an unemployed single mom with 6 kids.

It was my decision to go out of state for law school. A lot of welfare users don't have the luxury of choice.

They have a choice to use condoms.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: BigDaddy on June 01, 2004, 10:22:50 AM
i SERIOUSLY doubt that this is true.  that's just ridiculous!

Actually it is true...anyone that is legally independent (i.e. 24 or older) with a sufficiently low enough income is elligible.

SHORT ANSWER - You are not eligible

LONG ANSWER-
sorry, but this is looking a little to simplistic at the reality.
In order to qualify for food stamps, you not only have to be low income, but at least in Cali, you also have to have qualifying training time. this means that you have to be in school or working at least "x" hours/week in an approved activity. And LS DOES NOT COUNT as an approved activity.. Only UG schooling or technical degrres (ITT-Tech) count. LS does not count because you have skills that would allow you to obtain employment and support yourself. Since you choose to go to LS instead of find work, you choose to not be eligible for welfare.

I was on the program for 2 years during UG. I (and my wife and daughter)could not have gotten through without it. It is a good program for those who use it like I did, to better them selves.

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: M2 on June 01, 2004, 11:27:43 AM
Well I know for a fact that in NYC you would be elligible (I know one law student and one business school student on  foodstamps)...but I can't speak of california

Welfare in NYC does require the above mentioned training but foodstamps alone do not.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: marista on June 01, 2004, 11:59:21 AM
just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

I can't imagine rolling into a grocery store and trying to pay with food stamps.

Okay, so what about for people who plan to work in public interest and make $30-40k a year? Is it okay for them?

Personally, I think if it's there and you're eligible, you should take it.  If they didn't want grad students to use it they'd write the rules in such a way that you would not be eligible.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 12:12:59 PM
just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

I can't imagine rolling into a grocery store and trying to pay with food stamps.

Okay, so what about for people who plan to work in public interest and make $30-40k a year? Is it okay for them?

Personally, I think if it's there and you're eligible, you should take it.  If they didn't want grad students to use it they'd write the rules in such a way that you would not be eligible.


If my taxes are paying for it, I will take advantage of it if necessary.  End of story.

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 01, 2004, 12:44:33 PM
just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

I can't imagine rolling into a grocery store and trying to pay with food stamps.

Okay, so what about for people who plan to work in public interest and make $30-40k a year? Is it okay for them?

Personally, I think if it's there and you're eligible, you should take it.  If they didn't want grad students to use it they'd write the rules in such a way that you would not be eligible.


If my taxes are paying for it, I will take advantage of it if necessary.  End of story.



Whether you paid taxes or not, you can take advantage of them if you qualify.  It's entirely up to you.

When I was in the army and supporting a family, I qualified for food stamps, but chose not to apply.  It was my choice and it's your choice to apply if you want.


As far as whether you qualify, the only opinion that matters is the person processing your application.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 01:07:44 PM
just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

I can't imagine rolling into a grocery store and trying to pay with food stamps.

Okay, so what about for people who plan to work in public interest and make $30-40k a year? Is it okay for them?

Personally, I think if it's there and you're eligible, you should take it.  If they didn't want grad students to use it they'd write the rules in such a way that you would not be eligible.


If my taxes are paying for it, I will take advantage of it if necessary.  End of story.



Whether you paid taxes or not, you can take advantage of them if you qualify.  It's entirely up to you.

When I was in the army and supporting a family, I qualified for food stamps, but chose not to apply.  It was my choice and it's your choice to apply if you want.


As far as whether you qualify, the only opinion that matters is the person processing your application.

I doubt I'll apply if I qualify.  But if I need to I will.  And if you don't pay taxes then you shouldn't be eligible.  That is outrageous.  Everyone rapes the system.  The sad thing is I overheard 2 girls talking about welfare checks and food stamps and how they refuse to get higher paying jobs b/c they won't be able to collect anymore.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Chompster on June 01, 2004, 01:12:58 PM
Geez...just setup a snare for small mammals or raid bird nests. It's that time of year. I've found two bird nests already.

Edit: after I posted the above, I saw what avatar I'd chosen.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 01, 2004, 01:15:55 PM
Food stamps are to help people in need, at least that was the intent.  Why would you make paying taxes a requirement for receiving help?
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: BigDaddy on June 01, 2004, 01:38:01 PM
just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

I can't imagine rolling into a grocery store and trying to pay with food stamps.

Okay, so what about for people who plan to work in public interest and make $30-40k a year? Is it okay for them?

Personally, I think if it's there and you're eligible, you should take it.  If they didn't want grad students to use it they'd write the rules in such a way that you would not be eligible.
30-40K a year is too much, at least in Cali. we are talking under 15-18k / year in you are single. In order to qualify for FS at 40K a year, you would need about 9 dependants.

Either forget Cali FS, or get busy having fun!! ::)
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 02:45:34 PM
Food stamps are to help people in need, at least that was the intent.  Why would you make paying taxes a requirement for receiving help?

So what you are implying is that anyone can come and partake of our resources without having given anything?  Brilliant.  That is why there is overpopulation and poverty here b/c people want to come to take without giving.  People pay taxes and when they are in need, reserves from taxes are there to help them out.  My family was dirt poor, and my dad worked as a pizza man, toner deliverer, and any other crap job to make ends meet. And he paid taxes.  And when that wasn't enough we had to use food stamps for a brief period of time.  THAT makes sense.  Sorry, I just think the other way of thinking is irrational.  Especially when resources are low. 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 01, 2004, 02:55:00 PM
Food stamps are not a quid pro quo.  they are supposed to be to keep people from starving.  Are you saying that no one can get any help unless they've already paid in?  What about children?  What about people who are incapable of contributing?  If I have a mental disease from birth that makes me incapable of producing income and thus paying taxes, should I be left to my own devices?

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 02:56:23 PM
Food stamps are not a quid pro quo.  they are supposed to be to keep people from starving.  Are you saying that no one can get any help unless they've already paid in?  What about children?  What about people who are incapable of contributing?  If I have a mental disease from birth that makes me incapable of producing income and thus paying taxes, should I be left to my own devices?



If you are a citizen, of course you are eligible!  Yee haw!
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 01, 2004, 02:59:39 PM
So then paying taxes is not required?  I only have to be a citizen?

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 03:02:59 PM
Dude, seriously.  I made the point a million times.  Illegals shouldn't take our resources.  The system is screwed.  Just look at education. I don't have time to go back and forth.  I made my point and you made yours.  No worries. 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: dsong02 on June 01, 2004, 03:06:01 PM
Dude, seriously.  I made the point a million times.  Illegals shouldn't take our resources.  The system is screwed.  Just look at education. I don't have time to go back and forth.  I made my point and you made yours.  No worries. 

not to get in the middle of this, but i think jj's trying to infer that your point doesnt make sense.  is it paying taxes, being a citizen, both, or neither?
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 03:10:29 PM
sigh.

Like I said before, it isn't cool to use food stamps if you are not a citizen.  I wouldn't move to Europe with my hand out.

Note my previous example: 

So what you are implying is that anyone can come and partake of our resources without having given anything?  Brilliant.  That is why there is overpopulation and poverty here b/c people want to come to take without giving.  People pay taxes and when they are in need, reserves from taxes are there to help them out.  My family was dirt poor, and my dad worked as a pizza man, toner deliverer, and any other crap job to make ends meet. And he paid taxes.  And when that wasn't enough we had to use food stamps for a brief period of time.  THAT makes sense.  Sorry, I just think the other way of thinking is irrational.  Especially when resources are low. 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 01, 2004, 03:23:02 PM
As far as overpopulation, the US is actually approaching zero population growth.

It makes sense to care for the hungry and the sick.  It's part of my value system.  If the richest and most powerful nation on the earth can't be humane, then there is no hope and we might just as well go back to the jungle.

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 01, 2004, 03:28:59 PM
Especially when resources are low. 

Resources are low?  We have 10 of billions to spend invading other countries, don't we?  Are we saying killing comes before feeding the hungry?
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 03:39:18 PM
Especially when resources are low. 

Resources are low?  We have 10 of billions to spend invading other countries, don't we?  Are we saying killing comes before feeding the hungry?

Resources are low when health care is through the roof, education is a joke, and the economy is in the hole.

Just FYI- it is part of my value system, too.  I have been working in non-profits with disadvantaged populations my whole life, so don't be too quick to judge.


And what the hell makes you think I am for this ghastly war?  Take it up with President Bush.  Just because we disagree on one issue gives you no right to insult me.  Good day.   
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: schoomp on June 01, 2004, 03:40:06 PM
As far as overpopulation, the US is actually approaching zero population growth.

It makes sense to care for the hungry and the sick.  It's part of my value system.  If the richest and most powerful nation on the earth can't be humane, then there is no hope and we might just as well go back to the jungle.



I think the problem with this is that we aren't just caring for the hungry and the sick - we are caring for the lazy and stupid too.  And from what I have seen, we aren't doing a great job of caring for the sick and hungry (especially children and vets) because we are spending so much money on the lazy and stupid.

Most of my feelings on foodstamps/welfare comes from the people I have known on it - most of whom, imo, were scamming the system.  For example, I knew someone who was 14 and looking to get pregnant so that she could drop out of school and have money to party with.  Taking care of a kid was her last concern, but she knew she'd get money for having one.  Another example, someone on food stamps who had 8 kids - being on food stamps starting with the first one but instead of using protection to not have kids, kept having them.  Another, someone who was physically able to work but figured he's milk his "injury" as long as possible - he was able to do everything (go out for beer, see movies, buy stuff, etc) except work.

Going on those examples, the money seemed to be spent there.  However, the people that I knew that really needed the money (mostly children from abused homes), it was hard to get any money for them - the money would go to their parents (who no longer had custody or at least didn't have the children living with them) or the money just wasn't there.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 01, 2004, 03:41:52 PM
I'm sorry that I insulted you by stating the fact that we have billions for war.  The truth is that resources are not low.  America is extremely rich.

The money in my opinion is being misspent, but there is no lack of money in this country.

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 03:49:01 PM
As far as overpopulation, the US is actually approaching zero population growth.

It makes sense to care for the hungry and the sick.  It's part of my value system.  If the richest and most powerful nation on the earth can't be humane, then there is no hope and we might just as well go back to the jungle.



I think the problem with this is that we aren't just caring for the hungry and the sick - we are caring for the lazy and stupid too.  And from what I have seen, we aren't doing a great job of caring for the sick and hungry (especially children and vets) because we are spending so much money on the lazy and stupid.

Most of my feelings on foodstamps/welfare comes from the people I have known on it - most of whom, imo, were scamming the system.  For example, I knew someone who was 14 and looking to get pregnant so that she could drop out of school and have money to party with.  Taking care of a kid was her last concern, but she knew she'd get money for having one.  Another example, someone on food stamps who had 8 kids - being on food stamps starting with the first one but instead of using protection to not have kids, kept having them.  Another, someone who was physically able to work but figured he's milk his "injury" as long as possible - he was able to do everything (go out for beer, see movies, buy stuff, etc) except work.

Going on those examples, the money seemed to be spent there.  However, the people that I knew that really needed the money (mostly children from abused homes), it was hard to get any money for them - the money would go to their parents (who no longer had custody or at least didn't have the children living with them) or the money just wasn't there.

I agree schoomp, it is a very flawed system.  I currently work with homeless and mentally ill vets, and it is a nightmare.  Essentially we are simply trying to figure out how to give them care without spending the $$.  We are using resources to figure out the best way to not use resources.  Insane logic!
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 01, 2004, 03:56:44 PM
Let me play the devil's advocate.  If the lazy and the stupid are also the sick and hungry, what do we do?

Is stupidity a reason to turn our backs?  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by stupidity.  Lack of intelligence, mental defect.... 

Laziness is a troubling area.  Often it is a matter of perception.


You say that most are scamming, but I think you're depending on anecdotal information.  What do careful studies of the situation tell us?  How many women really get pregnant just to collect welfare and how can we really know this?  How can you emperically determine when someone is milking an injury and not really in need?  Emotions should not guide public policy; facts are needed.

You say that people who are really in need should get the help.  The problem is trying to construct a legal and practical definition of 'really in need'.  How would you define it in a way that can be administered and would prevent scammers?

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on June 01, 2004, 11:06:11 PM
To get back to the point of law school students taking advantage of the system...

I think it's morally reprehensible to take advantage of what you acknowledge as being a flawed system because you "pay taxes" or simply because you can. The fact of the matter is that most law students (such as ruskie) don't need food stamps to get by (future public interest attorneys and those with families to take care of aside). To take advantage of the system just because the loophole is there seemingly to be taken advantage of would be to go down a slippery slope.

You are essentially scamming a system that isn't there with you in mind and you're attempting to justify it through ethically bereft arguments such as "i pay taxes, thus i will use it". If you're able to convince yourself that what you're doing is ok by using such weak arguments, god knows what types of things you'll be justifying later on in your career. It's this type of slippery slope thinking that leads to bigger and bigger things (e.g., Tyco, Enron, etc.)

As someone else mentioned earlier, the real people that need the resources (starving children and older folks) may not get what they need because you feel like you deserve what the system offers and because you don't feel you should take out an extra couple grand in loans. You musn't always get ahead in life by shitting on other people... the opportunity is there, but again, it's a moral slippery slope.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 01, 2004, 11:21:26 PM
To get back to the point of law school students taking advantage of the system...

I think it's morally reprehensible to take advantage of what you acknowledge as being a flawed system because you "pay taxes" or simply because you can. The fact of the matter is that most law students (such as ruskie) don't need food stamps to get by (future public interest attorneys and those with families to take care of aside). To take advantage of the system just because the loophole is there seemingly to be taken advantage of would be to go down a slippery slope.

You are essentially scamming a system that isn't there with you in mind and you're attempting to justify it through ethically bereft arguments such as "i pay taxes, thus i will use it". If you're able to convince yourself that what you're doing is ok by using such weak arguments, god knows what types of things you'll be justifying later on in your career. It's this type of slippery slope thinking that leads to bigger and bigger things (e.g., Tyco, Enron, etc.)

As someone else mentioned earlier, the real people that need the resources (starving children and older folks) may not get what they need because you feel like you deserve what the system offers and because you don't feel you should take out an extra couple grand in loans. You musn't always get ahead in life by shitting on other people... the opportunity is there, but again, it's a moral slippery slope.

Like I said before, genius, if NECESSARY I will use them (like my dad was forced to).  I stated I would NOT use them in law school.  That is not NEED.  And I do plan on being on being a public interest lawyer.  I have been doing pub int. work for the last several years of my life.  Nowhere did I say I "deserved" them.  Stop making *&^% up and read what I said, not what you decided to twist my words into.  Have a nice evening!
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on June 01, 2004, 11:24:07 PM
lol. calm down. i wasn't attacking you personally. just making a general point based on something you said (the taxes thing).

Like I said before, genius, if NECESSARY I will use them (like my dad was forced to).  I stated I would NOT use them in law school.  That is not NEED.  And I do plan on being on being a public interest lawyer.  I have been doing pub int. work for the last several years of my life.  Nowhere did I say I "deserved" them.  Stop making *&^% up and read what I said, not what you decided to twist my words into.  Have a nice evening!
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on June 01, 2004, 11:52:13 PM
I can see how it seemed like I was attacking you, though. :-[ Sometimes I use "you" as an impersonal second person pronoun, where "one" might be more appropriate. Sowry

lol. calm down. i wasn't attacking you personally. just making a general point based on something you said (the taxes thing).

Like I said before, genius, if NECESSARY I will use them (like my dad was forced to).  I stated I would NOT use them in law school.  That is not NEED.  And I do plan on being on being a public interest lawyer.  I have been doing pub int. work for the last several years of my life.  Nowhere did I say I "deserved" them.  Stop making *&^% up and read what I said, not what you decided to twist my words into.  Have a nice evening!

Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 08:34:01 AM
What is wrong with a starving law student accepting food stamps? 

What is the hang up with who deserves food and who doesn't? 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: BigDaddy on June 02, 2004, 09:06:06 AM
What is wrong with a starving law student accepting food stamps? 

What is the hang up with who deserves food and who doesn't? 

the big point here is that the LS student can get extra loans to help get through and pay for food, while the single mother of three works two jobs and still has trouble putting food on the table.
and those who are to be public interest attny's can get loan forgiviness if they desire that route. Leave the food stamps to those who are truly unable to support themselves.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 09:09:59 AM
assuming the law student is not a mother of three
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 09:12:13 AM
Let me ask this.  If you got a tax refund would you turn it down so that there would be more money for food stamps?
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: forthguy on June 02, 2004, 09:32:17 AM
just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

"The majority" of us probably won't come out making $120K+ per year.

Even then, I find it interesting that you think loan payments on $150K+ of debt will be "an afterthought."

Greg
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: nola8688 on June 02, 2004, 10:40:49 AM
just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

"The majority" of us probably won't come out making $120K+ per year.

Even then, I find it interesting that you think loan payments on $150K+ of debt will be "an afterthought."

Greg

I know! I almost spit my coffee when I read this! Ginatio has quite a bit to learn about money.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: schoomp on June 02, 2004, 11:01:52 AM
Food stamps aren't there for law students - they are there for people that really need them.  A law student made the choice to go to law school. A law student, just by the fact that he or she has already has atleast a college degree has more earning potiental than many people.  Food stamps are there for people that are mentally or physically ill, have come on hard times (such as having a spouse die), or are older and can't work anymore.  By this reasoning, I don't think they are there for law students.  Personally, I also don't think they are there for someone who has had many children without being able to support them when they had them (not for people that had them and then lost a spouse, etc) because that was also a choice they made.  (However, the problem is that once the children are here, they have to be fed, thus why I am completely for birth control being given out freely to people on welfare)
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 11:10:04 AM
Food stamps are for people who need food.
Can you give a more specific definition of who should get food stamps?  For any defintion you give, I can describe a situation where a law student could qualify.  Why specifically eliminate law students?     

Quote from: schoomp link=topic=3271.msg35707#msg35ition707 date=1086195712
Food stamps aren't there for law students - they are there for people that really need them.  A law student made the choice to go to law school. A law student, just by the fact that he or she has already has atleast a college degree has more earning potiental than many people.  Food stamps are there for people that are mentally or physically ill, have come on hard times (such as having a spouse die), or are older and can't work anymore.  By this reasoning, I don't think they are there for law students.  Personally, I also don't think they are there for someone who has had many children without being able to support them when they had them (not for people that had them and then lost a spouse, etc) because that was also a choice they made.  (However, the problem is that once the children are here, they have to be fed, thus why I am completely for birth control being given out freely to people on welfare)
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: schoomp on June 02, 2004, 11:22:54 AM
The reason that students shouldn't get food stamps (unless they qualify, which reading through the food stamp program, they most likely won't) is because they choose not to work.  Part of the requirements, if you are a student, is that you work at least 20 hours a week.  A first year law student knows, going into it, that he or she isn't allowed to work the first year.  He or she also knows that taking out loans is a fact of life for most law school students.  Of course, if a student has children, cares for an elderly parents, etc, that changes it, but if the student is a 26 year old who has choosen to go back to school, he or she has made the choice to not work (which would pay for food) and take out loans for school/room and board. 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 11:31:02 AM
Why do you assume that students choose not to work?  Why do you assume that the student is not working?  When I was in the army I qualified for food stamps.  They even had an NCO who was given the job of helping soldiers apply for food stamps, among other duties.

The reason that students shouldn't get food stamps (unless they qualify, which reading through the food stamp program, they most likely won't) is because they choose not to work.  Part of the requirements, if you are a student, is that you work at least 20 hours a week.  A first year law student knows, going into it, that he or she isn't allowed to work the first year.  He or she also knows that taking out loans is a fact of life for most law school students.  Of course, if a student has children, cares for an elderly parents, etc, that changes it, but if the student is a 26 year old who has choosen to go back to school, he or she has made the choice to not work (which would pay for food) and take out loans for school/room and board. 
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on June 02, 2004, 11:36:17 AM
Alright, well.. those going to T1 schools, I meant. Pardon me.

Go look at the stats. Average indebtedness at these schools is nowhere near $150k.

just take the extra 3k in loans already.. jeez. food stamps? that's f-ing insane. In fact, it's exactly "taking advantage"... the majority of us will come out making $120+k a year and loan payments will be an afterthought. there's no reason to use the system for food stamps...

"The majority" of us probably won't come out making $120K+ per year.

Even then, I find it interesting that you think loan payments on $150K+ of debt will be "an afterthought."

Greg
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on June 02, 2004, 11:43:26 AM
Food stamps are for underpriveleged people that do not have the ability to afford food. Law students can take out a few extra thousand dollars in loans to be able to afford food, and the majority are by no means underpriveleged.

Social welfare programs aren't there to support future young professionals (again, public interest, non-trad students, and those with families to support aside).

Food stamps are for people who need food.
Can you give a more specific definition of who should get food stamps?  For any defintion you give, I can describe a situation where a law student could qualify.  Why specifically eliminate law students?     

Quote from: schoomp link=topic=3271.msg35707#msg35ition707 date=1086195712
Food stamps aren't there for law students - they are there for people that really need them.  A law student made the choice to go to law school. A law student, just by the fact that he or she has already has atleast a college degree has more earning potiental than many people.  Food stamps are there for people that are mentally or physically ill, have come on hard times (such as having a spouse die), or are older and can't work anymore.  By this reasoning, I don't think they are there for law students.  Personally, I also don't think they are there for someone who has had many children without being able to support them when they had them (not for people that had them and then lost a spouse, etc) because that was also a choice they made.  (However, the problem is that once the children are here, they have to be fed, thus why I am completely for birth control being given out freely to people on welfare)
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: schoomp on June 02, 2004, 11:46:38 AM
"Why do you assume that students choose not to work?"

Most schools have policies that first year law students cannot work. If you go to an ABA approved school full-time, the ABA says you cannot work your first year.  When you turn in your application at most schools that I have seen, there is a box where you say you understand this policy and you will not work your first year.

"Why do you assume that the student is not working?"

I assume they are not working because at some schools, this is even in the honor code that you say you will abide by.  The first year, you are not suppose to work (of course this is only ABA schools full-time).

"When I was in the army I qualified for food stamps.  They even had an NCO who was given the job of helping soldiers apply for food stamps, among other duties."

That is because we don't pay our soldiers anything and most have to get food stamps.  This is different than law school students.  How does this tie in.


Please relize, I am making mostly general statements.  This does not count for students that are going at night (thus working most-likely), have dependants (children or parents) or otherwise are not the "typical" student.  Most of my statements are about the "typical" student - 20's, not single parents, and not disabled in someway.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 11:47:14 AM
law students by definition are not under priveliged?  How do you figure?  I can't be a student at a tier 1 school, on a full scholarship and still have little or no money?

I think you're making too many assumptions.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: schoomp on June 02, 2004, 11:52:07 AM
Law students have a college degree - right then and there they fall into a "privledged" class.  You may have little or no money going to Yale - but you have a degree, you could work (if you weren't in school) and you made the choice to go to Yale.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on June 02, 2004, 11:55:28 AM
not underpriveliged from a bank account point of view. underpriveliged from a social status point of view. law students have great earning potential as it is, and will have even greater earning potential after graduating. They may not have cash in the bank, but can you really call someone that can afford 50k to go to law school "underprivileged?" i dont think so.

law students by definition are not under priveliged?  How do you figure?  I can't be a student at a tier 1 school, on a full scholarship and still have little or no money?

I think you're making too many assumptions.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 11:58:13 AM
so you're saying that it is not possible to have a college degree and be in need?

Law students have a college degree - right then and there they fall into a "privledged" class.  You may have little or no money going to Yale - but you have a degree, you could work (if you weren't in school) and you made the choice to go to Yale.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Ginatio on June 02, 2004, 12:05:50 PM
I'm saying that it is not possible to have a college degree AND be in law school AND be NEEDY aka destitute


so you're saying that it is not possible to have a college degree and be in need?

Law students have a college degree - right then and there they fall into a "privledged" class.  You may have little or no money going to Yale - but you have a degree, you could work (if you weren't in school) and you made the choice to go to Yale.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: schoomp on June 02, 2004, 12:06:16 PM
"so you're saying that it is not possible to have a college degree and be in need?"

You can be - but if you are thinking about going to a school that costs somewhere around 7k-30k a year, you probably aren't in need.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 12:08:25 PM
probably, maybe.

but being a law student does not disqaulify immediately nor should it.  it is very possible to be a law student and be in great need.

not everyone is in school because they chose not to work.  it's just not that simple.

"so you're saying that it is not possible to have a college degree and be in need?"

You can be - but if you are thinking about going to a school that costs somewhere around 7k-30k a year, you probably aren't in need.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: schoomp on June 02, 2004, 12:13:41 PM
It doens't disqualify you immediately - however according to the food stamp site it comes extremely close (http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/applicant_recipients/students.htm):

Most able-bodied students ages 18 through 49 who are enrolled in college or other institutions of higher education at least half time are not eligible for food stamps. However, students may be able to get food stamps if otherwise eligible and they:

Get public assistance benefits under a Title IV-A program I don't know how many are involved with this
Take part in a State or federally financed work study program - first year students can't work most places so this is out
Work at least 20 hours a week same as above

The rest are mostly for students with children
Are taking care of a dependent household member under the age of 6;
Are taking care of a dependent household member over the age of 5 but under 12 and do not have adequate child care to enable them to attend school and work a minimum of 20 hours, or to take part in a State or federally financed work study program; or
Are assigned to or placed in a college or certain other schools through:

A program under the Workforce Investment Act of 1998,
A program under Section 236 of the Trade Act of 1974,
An employment and training program under the Food Stamp Act, or
An employment and training program operated by a State or local government.
Also, a single parent enrolled full time in college and taking care of a dependent household member under the age of 12 can get food stamps if otherwise eligible.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: jgruber on June 02, 2004, 12:15:54 PM
OK.  Then I guess we agree.
Title: Re: Food Stamps
Post by: Munkeysgrrl on June 02, 2004, 12:55:01 PM
I can see how it seemed like I was attacking you, though. :-[ Sometimes I use "you" as an impersonal second person pronoun, where "one" might be more appropriate. Sowry

lol. calm down. i wasn't attacking you personally. just making a general point based on something you said (the taxes thing).

Like I said before, genius, if NECESSARY I will use them (like my dad was forced to).  I stated I would NOT use them in law school.  That is not NEED.  And I do plan on being on being a public interest lawyer.  I have been doing pub int. work for the last several years of my life.  Nowhere did I say I "deserved" them.  Stop making *&^% up and read what I said, not what you decided to twist my words into.  Have a nice evening!


lol, sorry I am just irritable...  i am on the atkins for 2 weeks to lose 5lbs before my bikini vacation and I am grumpy.... I don't really need to diet anyway.. lol, but i am a psycho virgo perfectionist!