Law School Discussion

Law Students => Incoming 1Ls => Topic started by: TrojanChispas on April 29, 2005, 03:19:11 AM

Title: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on April 29, 2005, 03:19:11 AM
i just sent my deposit to GULC and want to know if anyone has pics they took of the school when they visited or wanted to discuss anything related to the school.

is anyone else intersted in trial advocacy and the clinical programs or moot court?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on April 29, 2005, 07:13:10 AM
I'm going to Georgetown.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about Curriculum B, and I'm almost certain I'm going to sign up for it. I've talked to a lot of current students in the program and in the traditional curriculum, and it sounds like the interdisciplinary approach is just what I'm looking for. (I seriously considered applying to political theory PhD programs instead of law school.) Is anyone else here considering/definitely signing up for Curriculum B? Also, does anyone know when we make that choice? Is it with the second tuition deposit?

I'm also potentially interested in the Federal Legislation Clinic. My first job out of college was as an assistant policy analyst for a think tank, and though I liked the goal of influencing legislation (and public opinion), I consistently felt like I couldn't do a good job because I didn't know enough about the law. It might be good to try again with more knowledge and guidance. However, I am concerned that since my politics are quite different from the predominating liberal mindset of Georgetown, I would have to work on legislation I am personally opposed to. I guess I'll be talking to some people who have been through the program about that when it's time to sign up for clinics.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on April 29, 2005, 07:28:18 AM
I'm going to Georgetown.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about Curriculum B, and I'm almost certain I'm going to sign up for it. I've talked to a lot of current students in the program and in the traditional curriculum, and it sounds like the interdisciplinary approach is just what I'm looking for. (I seriously considered applying to political theory PhD programs instead of law school.) Is anyone else here considering/definitely signing up for Curriculum B? Also, does anyone know when we make that choice? Is it with the second tuition deposit?

I'm also potentially interested in the Federal Legislation Clinic. My first job out of college was as an assistant policy analyst for a think tank, and though I liked the goal of influencing legislation (and public opinion), I consistently felt like I couldn't do a good job because I didn't know enough about the law. It might be good to try again with more knowledge and guidance. However, I am concerned that since my politics are quite different from the predominating liberal mindset of Georgetown, I would have to work on legislation I am personally opposed to. I guess I'll be talking to some people who have been through the program about that when it's time to sign up for clinics.

congrats *dap*  i was thinking about the cirriculum B also, because i am not going to take the bar in DC and would like to know the concepts and thinking behind the law since that is what seems to be applicable everywhere.  or do i have the wrong impression of the difference between a and b?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on April 29, 2005, 09:17:20 AM

congrats *dap*  i was thinking about the cirriculum B also, because i am not going to take the bar in DC and would like to know the concepts and thinking behind the law since that is what seems to be applicable everywhere.  or do i have the wrong impression of the difference between a and b?

The difference between the two curricula doesn't have anything to do with how applicable the education is to the law in different states. As I understand it, almost everything you learn in law school is federal, mostly based on Supreme Court cases, maybe with a few notes about state law exceptions for the state you're in (especially at regional schools?). Both A and B should give you a nationwide understanding of the law, as well as the important concepts behind it.

As I understand it, the difference in Curriculum B is that, instead of spending all your time figuring out what the black letter law is and going through the minutia of different rules, you do a quicker overview of the black letter law and then spend much more time thinking about the concepts behind it, ways it could have come out different, whether the application of the law by the Supreme Court is really what Congress intended, and so forth. When I visited GULC (I sat in on a class from each section), I learned that most Curriculum B classes don't even use a regular legal casebook. Instead, they have xeroxed packets. I looked through the one belonging to the student sitting next to me - it had cases, of course, but it also had history essays, political theory papers, etc. I was told that the reading for the first day of class was from Thoreau's Civil Disobedience.

So, for people who just want to practice regular law, Curriculum B may be a waste of time (depending on what your personal interests are). But for people who have an interest in academia, a lot of interdisciplinary interests, a more philosophical temperament, etc., I think it's a good choice.

A group of radical Curriculum B students have set up a website to inform others / incite change / share class information. It's useful, but take it with a grain of salt: These seem to be the most radical of the bunch, and they have a particular vision not only of what B is, but of what it should be. http://sectionthree.org/

There's also a Curriculum B student with a blog who occasionally writes about why B is good/different. Here's his archive of B stuff: http://scoplaw.blogs.com/scoplaw/section_3/index.html
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on April 29, 2005, 09:20:44 AM
wow thanks!

do you think it would be helpful to do b if you are interested in trial work?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on April 29, 2005, 09:44:50 AM
wow thanks!

do you think it would be helpful to do b if you are interested in trial work?

That sounds like exactly the type of question that would be good to post on the section3.org message board.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on April 29, 2005, 09:57:57 AM
done.  it seems that knowing the histor and theory behind the law would help in fashioning an oral argument, no?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: vanbagley on April 29, 2005, 11:43:09 AM
 Hey there,
I am going to Gtown next fall. I will be living in the student housing too (assuming the housing lottery will not be a problem.)

I am interested in trial advocacy, moot court, and clinical work (like you) as well as international law. Gtown ranks high for all this stuff, and I think being a litigator will be much more exciting than being a transactional lawyer. Also if you focus in trial advocacy Gtown reccomends taking a wide variety of other courses that interest the student. I think that This is the type of flexibility that will be nice througout all three years.

I think that the A program is better for people who arn't sure about what direction they want to go into because it allows students to take an optional course their first year (like introduction to international law.) I am also thinking about a clerkship, does anyone know if Gtown has advantages for getting federal clerkships? or the kinds of advantages students get (aside from the obvious) of being nestled a few blocks away from all three center's of power in America?

Also to 3peat, you might want to look at the dual degree in public policy, I think you can apply with your LSAT score. i was thinking about applying but I don't feel like running to main campus all time to do math and policy work. I think Gtown law will keep me busy enough.

I wonder if we are gonna have senators' sons and governers' nephews and diplomats' half-children in our class cause its Gtown???
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on April 29, 2005, 01:31:56 PM
Hey there,
I am going to Gtown next fall. I will be living in the student housing too (assuming the housing lottery will not be a problem.)

I am interested in trial advocacy, moot court, and clinical work (like you) as well as international law. Gtown ranks high for all this stuff, and I think being a litigator will be much more exciting than being a transactional lawyer. Also if you focus in trial advocacy Gtown reccomends taking a wide variety of other courses that interest the student. I think that This is the type of flexibility that will be nice througout all three years.

I think that the A program is better for people who arn't sure about what direction they want to go into because it allows students to take an optional course their first year (like introduction to international law.) I am also thinking about a clerkship, does anyone know if Gtown has advantages for getting federal clerkships? or the kinds of advantages students get (aside from the obvious) of being nestled a few blocks away from all three center's of power in America?

Also to 3peat, you might want to look at the dual degree in public policy, I think you can apply with your LSAT score. i was thinking about applying but I don't feel like running to main campus all time to do math and policy work. I think Gtown law will keep me busy enough.

I wonder if we are gonna have senators' sons and governers' nephews and diplomats' half-children in our class cause its Gtown???
dude, we have almost the same exact interests :), that's cool.  i majored in international relations so international law is naturally interesting to me.
the public policy degree sounds tempting, but what does the lsat score have to do with it? 
i imagine that we are gonig to meet the kin of some very important people, but im not one of them
is anyone else ready to go to law school tommorow?  i am thinking about what i am goin to read this summer.. any suggestions?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: Lucy_Law on April 29, 2005, 02:16:08 PM
I believe I am headed to GULC in the fall also.  I just sent in my housing "processing fee" so hopefully I'll be able to live in student housing...the thought of searching for an apartment in a city I know nothing about does not exactly appeal to me.

It seems like a lot of people are very intrigued by the idea of curriculum B, but I thought it was a pretty small group of students in this section?  Do you have to apply to B?

And is anyone else so tired of hearing about how competitive GULC is?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: alibami_z on April 29, 2005, 02:35:08 PM
I'm heading to GULC as well.

Ethelmag, we also sound to be headed in similar directions.  The Federal Legislation Clinic and Chai Feldblum are two big reasons I am so excited about GULC.  You mentioned being concerned that your politics are quite different from the predominating liberal mindset of Georgetown.  I'm in the same boat.  (I also have a husband and two cats  :))

I'm also pretty sure I'm going to do Curriculum B though I'm still tossing the thought around.  I am interested in drafting legislation and/or contracts.  One day I would like to teach.  I think Curiculum B gives a good broad base for both the practice and teaching of law.  Also, I think it sounds more interesting on a day to day level since there'll be a lot of variety from many different disciplines all tied together to provide a context for learning black letter law.

I also wondered when we need to choose between "A" or "B".  I assumed it will be on the card we send in with our second deposit.  If anyone knows for sure, please post.

Lucy_Law, not only am I tired of hearing how competitive GULC is, I'm also tired of hearing how much of a TTT it is because it's ranked 14 out of the top 14.  I'm not settling by going to GULC.  It was my first choice before I even started applying.  In my mind, the school should be ranked much higher.  Maybe one day the rankings will catch up with the/my reality.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on April 29, 2005, 03:06:37 PM
I'm heading to GULC as well.

Ethelmag, we also sound to be headed in similar directions.  The Federal Legislation Clinic and Chai Feldblum are two big reasons I am so excited about GULC.  You mentioned being concerned that your politics are quite different from the predominating liberal mindset of Georgetown.  I'm in the same boat.  (I also have a husband and two cats  :))

I'm also pretty sure I'm going to do Curriculum B though I'm still tossing the thought around.  I am interested in drafting legislation and/or contracts.  One day I would like to teach.  I think Curiculum B gives a good broad base for both the practice and teaching of law.  Also, I think it sounds more interesting on a day to day level since there'll be a lot of variety from many different disciplines all tied together to provide a context for learning black letter law.

I also wondered when we need to choose between "A" or "B".  I assumed it will be on the card we send in with our second deposit.  If anyone knows for sure, please post.

Lucy_Law, not only am I tired of hearing how competitive GULC is, I'm also tired of hearing how much of a third tier toilet it is because it's ranked 14 out of the top 14.  I'm not settling by going to GULC.  It was my first choice before I even started applying.  In my mind, the school should be ranked much higher.  Maybe one day the rankings will catch up with the/my reality.
i really dont care how competitive GULC is because i am going to do my best no matter what or who happens.

as far as the ranking aspect... those that would criticize GULC are uninformed snobs and I BITE MY THUMB AT THEM.  do they realize that it is located in the MOST unique place in the country and posibly the world.  im mean can you think of a better place to study law than yards from where the laws are made interpreted and implemented?
certainly for moot courters the supreme court moot court is going to be a treat. 
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on April 29, 2005, 04:27:04 PM
I believe I am headed to GULC in the fall also.  I just sent in my housing "processing fee" so hopefully I'll be able to live in student housing...the thought of searching for an apartment in a city I know nothing about does not exactly appeal to me.

It seems like a lot of people are very intrigued by the idea of curriculum B, but I thought it was a pretty small group of students in this section?  Do you have to apply to B?

And is anyone else so tired of hearing about how competitive GULC is?

Curriculum B is 1 section out of I think 4 full-time first year sections. Georgetown being a huge school, that means a little more than 100 people are in Curriculum B. I guess if too many people wanted it they would have a lottery or something, but I haven't heard about that happening in the past.

And yes, I'm totally sick of hearing about the competitiveness thing.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: lizrd618 on May 02, 2005, 01:59:04 PM
hey all, i'm likely headed to GULC too. focus on international law; doing a dual degree over at johns hopkins SAIS (MA in int'l relations). definitely want to sign up for curric B (whenever it is we do that..). i sent in the housing app, but still not sure whether i want to live in gewirz or find my own apt. the convenience in terms of location, internet, utilities, etc of the university housing seems like a big plus. but on the other hand, i really really want to bring a cat along when i move to DC. decisions, decisions..

the ranking thing bothers me a bit too, especially after having gone to an undergrad school with a rankings-induced inferiority complex. but whatever. it IS the greatest city in the world to study law!

as far as competitiveness, the students i talked to at the open house pretty much dispelled that theory. but even if it is competitive, that's fine with me -- quite frankly i need a little competition to get my ass in gear!  ;)
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: squirrel on May 03, 2005, 03:01:13 PM
hey guys, i'm also heading to georgetown in the fall. i usually lurk/post on the xoxo site because that site seems to load much faster than this one.

curriculum b sounds very intersting and intriguing, and i've been reading a lot about it -- mainly from scoplaw's blog as well as from section3.org. at the end, i decided to go with the traditional curriculum because as a (former) scientist who learned english as a second language, i'm afraid that if go to section 3, i'll get my a** kicked by all the lit/phil majors there. plus, with my thinking style, i'm probably better at learning black-letter laws than reading/interpreting legal theory.

and yes, i'm also sick of hearing how cutthroat and third tier toilet gulc is. everyone on this thread seems pretty sane, so i can't imagine all of us suddenly start stabbing each other in the back once school begins. as for the third tier toilet part, i'm choosing gulc over a couple of higher-ranked schools so it's obviously not a third tier toilet in my mind. and that's all that matters since i'm going there to get a good education for myself and not to impress some random elist whores on message boards.

also, i'm wondering if anyone plans to bring his/her car to dc in the fall? i'm having a really hard time deciding whether or not i should sell my car before moving east. i know that dc has an excellent metro system, but i really enjoy the convenience of having a car. is it really a bad idea?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on May 03, 2005, 03:49:57 PM

also, i'm wondering if anyone plans to bring his/her car to dc in the fall? i'm having a really hard time deciding whether or not i should sell my car before moving east. i know that dc has an excellent metro system, but i really enjoy the convenience of having a car. is it really a bad idea?


Hi, welcome!

Whether you should have a car in DC really depends on where you want to live. If you're going to be living in the dorms, I'd say don't bother. Also if you're going to get your own apartment somewhere in the city, a car shouldn't be necessary. Plus, it's really expensive to keep a car in the city - in the hundreds of dollars a month for garage parking, plus parking fees wherever you drive to.

On the other hand, I'm a suburban type, and I'm going to rent an apartment in Arlington and bring a car. Most apartments outside the city offer either free parking or relatively cheap ($25-$50) monthly rates. Plus, with the more-spread-out-ness of suburban life, a car becomes useful for picking up groceries, going to the movies, etc. But I still plan to use the metro to get to school and back.

If you anticipate occasional trips outside convenient metro-accessible places, or having to transport heavy things every once in a while, you might want to look into the ZipCar and FlexCar services: http://www.zipcar.com and http://www.flexcar.com
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: squirrel on May 03, 2005, 05:04:07 PM
ethelmag, do you plan to drive to class everyday, or are you going to metro on weekdays and use your car primarily for weekends and grocery shopping? when i visited the school in january, all the spots near gulc seemed to be metered. i assume that the garage in the basement is for faculty/staff only. just wondering where are you going to park your car if you're going to drive to school.

i will not be living on-campus because i'm old and probably don't fit into the dorm culture too well. i'm still debating on city (anywhere along the red line between dupont and bethesda) vs. the burbs (nova). it'd be cool to live in the city, experience urban life, and walk everywhere, but suburbs have their advantages as well -- quieter, cheaper, safer, etc. so i guess i'm still torn.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: RobinHood on May 03, 2005, 05:43:43 PM
Do you all know if the workload's much different between A and B curriculum. I mean, the more theoretical approach is alluring, but I don't want more work piled on me...Also, on some other thread, someone said that employers don't discriminate between hiring from A or B...Anybody know anything for sure on that front?


ethelmag, do you plan to drive to class everyday, or are you going to metro on weekdays and use your car primarily for weekends and grocery shopping? when i visited the school in january, all the spots near gulc seemed to be metered. i assume that the garage in the basement is for faculty/staff only. just wondering where are you going to park your car if you're going to drive to school.

i will not be living on-campus because i'm old and probably don't fit into the dorm culture too well. i'm still debating on city (anywhere along the red line between dupont and bethesda) vs. the burbs (nova). it'd be cool to live in the city, experience urban life, and walk everywhere, but suburbs have their advantages as well -- quieter, cheaper, safer, etc. so i guess i'm still torn.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: siehead on May 03, 2005, 06:04:09 PM
I hope that within the next month I become an active participator in threads such as these...
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on May 03, 2005, 06:11:14 PM
ethelmag, do you plan to drive to class everyday, or are you going to metro on weekdays and use your car primarily for weekends and grocery shopping? when i visited the school in january, all the spots near gulc seemed to be metered. i assume that the garage in the basement is for faculty/staff only. just wondering where are you going to park your car if you're going to drive to school.

i will not be living on-campus because i'm old and probably don't fit into the dorm culture too well. i'm still debating on city (anywhere along the red line between dupont and bethesda) vs. the burbs (nova). it'd be cool to live in the city, experience urban life, and walk everywhere, but suburbs have their advantages as well -- quieter, cheaper, safer, etc. so i guess i'm still torn.

No, I'm definitely going to metro to school. I wouldn't want to try to park in the city on a regular basis.

By the time you get out to Bethesda on the red line, it's pretty suburban.

My husband and I just this morning put down a deposit on an apartment in the Crystal City area of Arlington, VA. Yay!
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: squirrel on May 03, 2005, 07:23:46 PM
Do you all know if the workload's much different between A and B curriculum. I mean, the more theoretical approach is alluring, but I don't want more work piled on me...Also, on some other thread, someone said that employers don't discriminate between hiring from A or B...Anybody know anything for sure on that front?

robinhood, an earlier message posted by ethelmag in this thread contains a couple of links which lead to some great info about the alternative curriculum. the blogger scoplaw wrote some excellent posts about the pros and cons of section 3, and his blog also links to a few other curriculum-b bloggers, so definitely check those out.

it sounds like the alternative curriculum will involve more reading. how much more? no one really knows since no one has gone through both curricula and can make a fair comparison. one thing to keep in mind is that if you think you're the type who enjoys learning law from a theoretical approach, you may have a better time in section 3 even if it means more work, rather than doing less work but reading cases all day in a regular section. as for job interviewing, i doubt that employers care. i read somewhere that gulc tracked graduates from section 3 and found that they did as well as other graduates on firm and clerkship placement.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: taterstol on May 03, 2005, 07:26:10 PM
ethelmag, do you plan to drive to class everyday, or are you going to metro on weekdays and use your car primarily for weekends and grocery shopping? when i visited the school in january, all the spots near gulc seemed to be metered. i assume that the garage in the basement is for faculty/staff only. just wondering where are you going to park your car if you're going to drive to school.

i will not be living on-campus because i'm old and probably don't fit into the dorm culture too well. i'm still debating on city (anywhere along the red line between dupont and bethesda) vs. the burbs (nova). it'd be cool to live in the city, experience urban life, and walk everywhere, but suburbs have their advantages as well -- quieter, cheaper, safer, etc. so i guess i'm still torn.

No, I'm definitely going to metro to school. I wouldn't want to try to park in the city on a regular basis.

By the time you get out to Bethesda on the red line, it's pretty suburban.

My husband and I just this morning put down a deposit on an apartment in the Crystal City area of Arlington, VA. Yay!

Ooh that's where I live. I like it. It's nice. Metroing's pretty painless during rush hour when the trains run fast.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: taterstol on May 03, 2005, 07:28:17 PM
Do you all know if the workload's much different between A and B curriculum. I mean, the more theoretical approach is alluring, but I don't want more work piled on me...Also, on some other thread, someone said that employers don't discriminate between hiring from A or B...Anybody know anything for sure on that front?

robinhood, an earlier message posted by ethelmag in this thread contains a couple of links which lead to some great info about the alternative curriculum. the blogger scoplaw wrote some excellent posts about the pros and cons of section 3, and his blog also links to a few other curriculum-b bloggers, so definitely check those out.

it sounds like the alternative curriculum will involve more reading. how much more? no one really knows since no one has gone through both curricula and can make a fair comparison. one thing to keep in mind is that if you think you're the type who enjoys learning law from a theoretical approach, you may have a better time in section 3 even if it means more work, rather than doing less work but reading cases all day in a regular section. as for job interviewing, i doubt that employers care. i read somewhere that gulc tracked graduates from section 3 and found that they did as well as other graduates on firm and clerkship placement.

I affectionately refer to section 3 kids as the "liberal arts" law students. It's more reading, more theory, etc. I prefer tried and true traditional approach for 1L, but really you learn the same stuff and it's tied together in some interesting ways that maybe the Curriculum A folks aren't so directly exposed to. For example, that "Bargain, Exchange..." whatever class I think ties torts and contracts together in the same package, which makes total sense, yet in the traditional curriculum it's two separate classes.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: RobinHood on May 04, 2005, 10:33:47 AM
Thanks a lot...I'll check on it...I am a little worried about tackling it--1L is going to prove daunting enough.


Do you all know if the workload's much different between A and B curriculum. I mean, the more theoretical approach is alluring, but I don't want more work piled on me...Also, on some other thread, someone said that employers don't discriminate between hiring from A or B...Anybody know anything for sure on that front?

robinhood, an earlier message posted by ethelmag in this thread contains a couple of links which lead to some great info about the alternative curriculum. the blogger scoplaw wrote some excellent posts about the pros and cons of section 3, and his blog also links to a few other curriculum-b bloggers, so definitely check those out.

it sounds like the alternative curriculum will involve more reading. how much more? no one really knows since no one has gone through both curricula and can make a fair comparison. one thing to keep in mind is that if you think you're the type who enjoys learning law from a theoretical approach, you may have a better time in section 3 even if it means more work, rather than doing less work but reading cases all day in a regular section. as for job interviewing, i doubt that employers care. i read somewhere that gulc tracked graduates from section 3 and found that they did as well as other graduates on firm and clerkship placement.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: squirrel on May 04, 2005, 11:21:05 AM
Thanks a lot...I'll check on it...I am a little worried about tackling it--1L is going to prove daunting enough.

yeah, daunting indeed. i was going back and forth on this one as well. sometimes i feel like since this curriculum unique to gulc, i'm losing out on something if i don't take advantage of it. other times, i tell myself that although i enjoy challenges, i need to be aware of my own limits so that i'm not fighting a losing battle.

btw, i saw on the other thread that you're still deciding on schools, are you pretty much set on gulc? i think it'd be pretty amazing to study law in dc if you take advantage of the location, so come to gulc!
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: Nizzy on May 04, 2005, 01:57:16 PM
On the website, they claim that B might be more reading, but the extra reading is usually pretty interesting.  It also should be noted that you are ranked in your own section, if I recall, so it isn't like the A curriculum people end up with an advantage becaue of lighter workloads.

As for me, one of my majors is philosophy, so its a bit of a no-brainer choice.  I chose B today.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on May 04, 2005, 03:09:25 PM
On the website, they claim that B might be more reading, but the extra reading is usually pretty interesting.  It also should be noted that you are ranked in your own section, if I recall, so it isn't like the A curriculum people end up with an advantage becaue of lighter workloads.

As for me, one of my majors is philosophy, so its a bit of a no-brainer choice.  I chose B today.

When you say you chose B today, do you mean that you filled out a form for it? When did you get such a form? I haven't gotten any mail from them in about 6 weeks, though I did get an e-mail confirmation that they got my first deposit.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: Nizzy on May 04, 2005, 03:48:19 PM
I went on the admitted students website, and there is a new option on the bottom to choose your curriculum.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on May 04, 2005, 04:23:51 PM
I went on the admitted students website, and there is a new option on the bottom to choose your curriculum.

Thanks! I just submitted my Curriculum B choice.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: RobinHood on May 04, 2005, 05:08:27 PM

Georgetown certainly offers me the best opportunities, and I'm definitely leaning there--the money issue's the only thing that could sway me, so I'm still trying to gather as much information as possible...

Thanks a lot...I'll check on it...I am a little worried about tackling it--1L is going to prove daunting enough.

yeah, daunting indeed. i was going back and forth on this one as well. sometimes i feel like since this curriculum unique to gulc, i'm losing out on something if i don't take advantage of it. other times, i tell myself that although i enjoy challenges, i need to be aware of my own limits so that i'm not fighting a losing battle.

btw, i saw on the other thread that you're still deciding on schools, are you pretty much set on gulc? i think it'd be pretty amazing to study law in dc if you take advantage of the location, so come to gulc!
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: alibami_z on May 05, 2005, 03:08:24 PM
3Peat,

You asked about pictures taken of GULC.  I took photos at the Open House in late January and have posted 37 photos on a website:

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=147717&ck=

Once at the main page, select "Photo Albums" then select the Georgetown link.  There should be 36 more photos with captions.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on May 05, 2005, 03:46:22 PM
3Peat,

You asked about pictures taken of GULC.  I took photos at the Open House in late January and have posted 37 photos on a website:

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=147717&ck=

Once at the main page, select "Photo Albums" then select the Georgetown link.  There should be 36 more photos with captions.
wow, thanks alibami_z.  that was cool to look at. :)
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: RobinHood on May 05, 2005, 04:48:38 PM
Well, I did my best to navigate both threads, and while they were helpful, I'm still a little bit confused about Curriculum B. In theory, it sounds excellent, but the radical leftism has me a little worried. I mean, I like the idea that it seems like a really closeknit group, but the fact is I'm hardly a liberal. I'd sort of like to get in touch with someone who's a bit more moderate politically in Curriculum B. Having read those threads and navigated those sites, is anybody in my boat? Also, I'd be interested to know how much harder Curriculum B is/whether it does in fact end up affecting hiring practices/the way prospective employers will look at you....
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on May 05, 2005, 05:09:06 PM
As I posted above, I just signed up for Curriculum B, and I am no liberal. I'm a moderate libertarian of the "work for change from within the Republican party" variety. So, RobinHood, I definitely think you should choose B too! I've got to lobby for the diverse voices now.

Scott Scheule is a GULC blogger and extreme libertarian who is just finishing up Curriculum B now: http://phernhill.blogspot.com/  He doesn't write very much about it; his blog is more personal. But if you e-mail him, he'd probably be willing to talk to you about it. I've been talking with him a lot in the past month or so.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: alibami_z on May 05, 2005, 05:18:30 PM
RobinHood,

I can't really answer what you're asking because I haven't even started law school yet, but I'm not a liberal and I'm most likely going to be taking Curriculum B.  The draw for me is context.  I don't just what to learn what; I want to learn why.  Curriculum B is supposed to teach that.

I've been corresponding with a 1L who's in "B" right now.  He said that reading used to be burdensome but has since been revamped and is now better though still probably a bit more than "A".  Reading load according to two students is about 4 hrs a day, mon-thurs with a full day reading/outlining on the weekend.  Another student (fast reader) reads 1-2 hours/day every day.

Also, grades are on a curve based on one's section so you will only be competing for grades with other "B" students who have the same workload as you do.

I read that studies have been done and "B" people are not at a disadvantage with regards to employment.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on May 05, 2005, 06:37:49 PM
RobinHood,

I can't really answer what you're asking because I haven't even started law school yet, but I'm not a liberal and I'm most likely going to be taking Curriculum B.  The draw for me is context.  I don't just what to learn what; I want to learn why.  Curriculum B is supposed to teach that.

I've been corresponding with a 1L who's in "B" right now.  He said that reading used to be burdensome but has since been revamped and is now better though still probably a bit more than "A".  Reading load according to two students is about 4 hrs a day, mon-thurs with a full day reading/outlining on the weekend.  Another student (fast reader) reads 1-2 hours/day every day.

Also, grades are on a curve based on one's section so you will only be competing for grades with other "B" students who have the same workload as you do.

I read that studies have been done and "B" people are not at a disadvantage with regards to employment.

if B teaches "why" better than A, then B is much better for me.  Isnt everyone just interested in why more than what, at least in the begining of their legal careers?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: alibami_z on May 05, 2005, 10:27:28 PM
3Peat,

From the Curriculum B description on GULC's admitted student's website:

...Exposure to the important common-law principles comes in a context that emphasizes the connection between different areas of law and other disciplines. More emphasis is placed on the emergence of the regulatory state and on the impact government regulation has on legal theory and practice. Most significantly, the faculty make a concerted effort to integrate their various offerings and to teach students the ways in which seemingly unconnected legal problems pose common, recurring issues. In short, the curriculum focuses on the "big picture" -- not just the "what" of law, but also on the "why."
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: RobinHood on May 06, 2005, 11:35:35 AM
Thanks y'all. I appreciate those very thoughtful comments.
What I find interesting is, as the thread I've quoted from demonstrates, Curriculum B sounds like a no-brainer--in theory at least. I mean, isn't this why any intellectually curious (and not simply greed-mongering Hun) individual goes to law school? I guess I've just been raised (and here, perhaps my conservatism, albeit moderate conservatism emerges) to expect catches. In other words, there must be drawbacks, right? I guess I'm just on the qui vive for those drawbacks...A little more reading isn't discouragement enough, but, as Penn Warren writes, although I may butcher it, man is conceived in sin and born in corruption, from the stench of the diddie to the stink of the shroud, there is always something....Now, what is that something?


RobinHood,

I can't really answer what you're asking because I haven't even started law school yet, but I'm not a liberal and I'm most likely going to be taking Curriculum B.  The draw for me is context.  I don't just what to learn what; I want to learn why.  Curriculum B is supposed to teach that.

I've been corresponding with a 1L who's in "B" right now.  He said that reading used to be burdensome but has since been revamped and is now better though still probably a bit more than "A".  Reading load according to two students is about 4 hrs a day, mon-thurs with a full day reading/outlining on the weekend.  Another student (fast reader) reads 1-2 hours/day every day.

Also, grades are on a curve based on one's section so you will only be competing for grades with other "B" students who have the same workload as you do.

I read that studies have been done and "B" people are not at a disadvantage with regards to employment.

if B teaches "why" better than A, then B is much better for me.  Isnt everyone just interested in why more than what, at least in the begining of their legal careers?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on May 06, 2005, 12:16:18 PM
Thanks y'all. I appreciate those very thoughtful comments.
What I find interesting is, as the thread I've quoted from demonstrates, Curriculum B sounds like a no-brainer--in theory at least. I mean, isn't this why any intellectually curious (and not simply greed-mongering Hun) individual goes to law school? ...

I hope so.

Okay, let me elaborate.

One of the main points of support the "don't ever go to law school" crowd has for their belief is this: Lots of people go to law school hoping for an intellectual experience, a continuation of undergrad. But law school isn't like that. It's a professional school, and the attitudes and expectations there are exactly what those people are not looking for. I'm hoping that curriculum B will be an oasis of intellectual experience in an otherwise professional-school setting. I'm hoping that the people who are looking for that type of experience will gravitate toward curriculum B, and even gravitate toward Georgetown because of the alternative curriculum option.

On the other hand, I do think that there are good reasons for a lot of people to choose curriculum A. Some of them like the "tried and true" method and don't want to place themselves in a curriculum that is still experimental and evolving. Some want to "share in the experience" that law students have all had, nationwide, for 100 years or more. In Georgetown's case in particular, some people might be attracted to being allowed to choose an elective in the spring semester of the 1L year and getting an early start on the area they really want to study. Some aren't interested in the interdisciplinary areas that can be easily related to law - for instance, if one has a science background and wants to practice patent law. Some might find out that libertarian superstar Randy Barnett is teaching one section of 1L Constitutional Law and really, really want to take his class.

So, there are any number of reasons Curriculum A could be a better choice than Curriculum B. It all depends on your interests and goals.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: alibami_z on May 06, 2005, 12:20:32 PM
Thanks y'all. I appreciate those very thoughtful comments.
What I find interesting is, as the thread I've quoted from demonstrates, Curriculum B sounds like a no-brainer--in theory at least. I mean, isn't this why any intellectually curious (and not simply greed-mongering Hun) individual goes to law school? I guess I've just been raised (and here, perhaps my conservatism, albeit moderate conservatism emerges) to expect catches. In other words, there must be drawbacks, right? I guess I'm just on the qui vive for those drawbacks...A little more reading isn't discouragement enough, but, as Penn Warren writes, although I may butcher it, man is conceived in sin and born in corruption, from the stench of the diddie to the stink of the shroud, there is always something....Now, what is that something?


Taken from a review of GULC on epinions.com:

"I was given the choice of taking the standard curriculum or an alternative curriculum, what they call Section 3. Basically you learn black letter law but also the history, political science, sociology, and other liberal arts type background to that law. I chose the curriculum because I thought it would be a great learning experience--and it was. The thing that I wasn't prepared for was that most of the students taking the curriculum already had so much knowledge and background in those subjects, and I felt myself at a disadvantage. Students would spend whole class periods philosophizing and debating back and forth between legal realism and the value of a hypothetical life and so on. I was more than a little intimidated and also frustrated because my brain does not function on that level. I learned that I wasn't really a good fit for the curriculum. This was a hard lesson to learn since first year grades basically determine whether you get a journal spot and interviews with top firms and judges. This is not just sour grapes talking, my first year grade average was horrible, but 2nd and 3rd year (when I took mostly straight black letter law classes) I made Dean's List. So if you are considering the alternative curriculum, make sure you know what kind of person you are and whether you enjoy philosophical debates on theory that has no place in real law. I learned a lot and I'm glad I learned it, but I wish someone would have warned me sufficiently before I made the choice."

Is this anecdote a reflection of the current situation?  Is this a reflection of a larger opinion?  I don't know.  But there it is.  One person's opinion on the "something."
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: TrojanChispas on May 06, 2005, 01:21:24 PM
3Peat,

From the Curriculum B description on GULC's admitted student's website:

...Exposure to the important common-law principles comes in a context that emphasizes the connection between different areas of law and other disciplines. More emphasis is placed on the emergence of the regulatory state and on the impact government regulation has on legal theory and practice. Most significantly, the faculty make a concerted effort to integrate their various offerings and to teach students the ways in which seemingly unconnected legal problems pose common, recurring issues. In short, the curriculum focuses on the "big picture" -- not just the "what" of law, but also on the "why."

that sounds right up my alley.  why woudnt everyone want to focus onthe big picture?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: Nizzy on May 06, 2005, 03:16:53 PM
3Peat,

From the Curriculum B description on GULC's admitted student's website:

...Exposure to the important common-law principles comes in a context that emphasizes the connection between different areas of law and other disciplines. More emphasis is placed on the emergence of the regulatory state and on the impact government regulation has on legal theory and practice. Most significantly, the faculty make a concerted effort to integrate their various offerings and to teach students the ways in which seemingly unconnected legal problems pose common, recurring issues. In short, the curriculum focuses on the "big picture" -- not just the "what" of law, but also on the "why."

that sounds right up my alley.  why woudnt everyone want to focus onthe big picture?

Thats pretty funny, man.  And how come so many people don't like discussing philosophy with me?  A majority of people consider the 'why' rather irrelevant and want to focus more on practicality.  I can't tell them they are wrong to feel that way, but I just feel differently.  Join the club. (I imagine you literally will)
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: RobinHood on May 07, 2005, 05:32:49 AM
Wow, that's a really interesting and possibly troubling something...Thanks so much for posting it! I was an English major in college, and while I did take some philosophy and political philosophy classes, my grasp of legal history and such is about as firm as warm water, and I haven't taken any Econ. Those of you who've signed up for B, I'd be interested in the depth (or lack thereof?) of your background for B...I mean competing against guys who've been reading The Economist cover to cover and philosophical treatises in the meantime....The worry of starting from behind and trying to claw my way to mediocrity is, well, filling me with trepidation--nevertheless it still sounds powerfully alluring...


Thanks y'all. I appreciate those very thoughtful comments.
What I find interesting is, as the thread I've quoted from demonstrates, Curriculum B sounds like a no-brainer--in theory at least. I mean, isn't this why any intellectually curious (and not simply greed-mongering Hun) individual goes to law school? I guess I've just been raised (and here, perhaps my conservatism, albeit moderate conservatism emerges) to expect catches. In other words, there must be drawbacks, right? I guess I'm just on the qui vive for those drawbacks...A little more reading isn't discouragement enough, but, as Penn Warren writes, although I may butcher it, man is conceived in sin and born in corruption, from the stench of the diddie to the stink of the shroud, there is always something....Now, what is that something?


Taken from a review of GULC on epinions.com:

"I was given the choice of taking the standard curriculum or an alternative curriculum, what they call Section 3. Basically you learn black letter law but also the history, political science, sociology, and other liberal arts type background to that law. I chose the curriculum because I thought it would be a great learning experience--and it was. The thing that I wasn't prepared for was that most of the students taking the curriculum already had so much knowledge and background in those subjects, and I felt myself at a disadvantage. Students would spend whole class periods philosophizing and debating back and forth between legal realism and the value of a hypothetical life and so on. I was more than a little intimidated and also frustrated because my brain does not function on that level. I learned that I wasn't really a good fit for the curriculum. This was a hard lesson to learn since first year grades basically determine whether you get a journal spot and interviews with top firms and judges. This is not just sour grapes talking, my first year grade average was horrible, but 2nd and 3rd year (when I took mostly straight black letter law classes) I made Dean's List. So if you are considering the alternative curriculum, make sure you know what kind of person you are and whether you enjoy philosophical debates on theory that has no place in real law. I learned a lot and I'm glad I learned it, but I wish someone would have warned me sufficiently before I made the choice."

Is this anecdote a reflection of the current situation?  Is this a reflection of a larger opinion?  I don't know.  But there it is.  One person's opinion on the "something."
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on May 07, 2005, 06:24:55 AM
Wow, that's a really interesting and possibly troubling something...Thanks so much for posting it! I was an English major in college, and while I did take some philosophy and political philosophy classes, my grasp of legal history and such is about as firm as warm water, and I haven't taken any Econ. Those of you who've signed up for B, I'd be interested in the depth (or lack thereof?) of your background for B...I mean competing against guys who've been reading The Economist cover to cover and philosophical treatises in the meantime....The worry of starting from behind and trying to claw my way to mediocrity is, well, filling me with trepidation--nevertheless it still sounds powerfully alluring...

I can't imagine you'd have to be a philosophy major to do well in curriculum B. The epinions reviewer didn't talk about the extent of his/her lack of aptitude for that kind of thing - maybe he/she had never taken a philosophy class at all.

I sat in on a B class when I visited GULC. It seemed a lot like an undergraduate political theory class. It was the Government Processes class. The professor put up a PowerPoint slide of the law that created the rulemaking and public comment procedure for some government agency or other, which was about one page long. She then described how the process works in real life. All this was probably in the reading for that day, too. Then the class discussed the ways in which the real-life process differs from what Congress probably had in mind when they wrote the law. They discussed possible alternative procedures, both procedures that could have developed differently from the same law, and procedures that could be developed if the statute were amended. There was some discussion of the rights of companies directly affected by the procedure, and the rights of companies/communities/individuals that are indirectly affected by the outcome of the rulemaking process.

It was really interesting, and I don't imagine you'd need a degree in philosophy or political theory to follow or participate in the discussion. (My view may be slightly distorted, since I do have an undergraduate degree in philosophy and political theory, but the discussion didn't seem to be engaging any of my particularized knowledge in the field.) If you've never taken any classes in that area and thus have no idea whether you are good at thinking in that way, you might be a little wary about signing up for a whole year of it. But I think even just a little bit of experience is enough.

Has anyone else sat in on a B class? What were your impressions?
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: RobinHood on May 07, 2005, 07:16:29 AM
Ethelmag, that was a really helpful post--I'm not a total novice where philosophy's concerned, just not at all an expert (alas, if Chaucer and a background in postmodernism were all we needed, I'd be set) and, I, too, would be really interested to hear more first-hand accounts...I mean, this is an awfully big decision for all of us, and the way I see it, the better informed/prepared we are, the better....
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: ethelmag on May 07, 2005, 07:41:11 AM
Ethelmag, that was a really helpful post--I'm not a total novice where philosophy's concerned, just not at all an expert (alas, if Chaucer and a background in postmodernism were all we needed, I'd be set) and, I, too, would be really interested to hear more first-hand accounts...I mean, this is an awfully big decision for all of us, and the way I see it, the better informed/prepared we are, the better....

You should talk to my husband - he's a Chaucer fanatic and wants to set up a Middle English reading club.
Title: Re: Anyone else going to GULC?
Post by: squirrel on May 08, 2005, 04:24:51 PM
robinhood, another factor you may look into before making your final decision is the professors who teach curriculum B. i assume that that due to the unique nature of this curriculum, the same group of professors teach it every year. you could find out who taught what last year on the gulc web, then you could look up each professor's bio/background/research interest in the big faculty facebook gulc mailed you.

also, remember that even though curriculum A focuses on teaching black letter laws, it'd give you some exposure to legal history/theory. unlike some of the lower-tier schools which basically offer a 3-year bar review course, most top-tier schools seem to use a holistic approach in teaching, so i'm sure that curriculum A would teach you more than "what are the laws."

the epinion excerpt was interesting (thanks for posting it) and sort of echoed my earlier fear that i don't have what it takes to do well in B albeit that i may thoroughly enjoy it. as a science/engineering major, i only had to take a few liberal arts courses, and i got out from most of them using AP credits and by taking placement exams of my native language.:D i'm sure i'll pay dearly for that in law school.