Law School Discussion

Law Students => Job Search => Topic started by: 0L_Anxiety on March 31, 2008, 02:31:48 PM

Title: 1L Summer job process
Post by: 0L_Anxiety on March 31, 2008, 02:31:48 PM
Hey, I'm a 0L and thought it might help him gain some insight into what to expect next summer by reading thru some of these posts. I was wondering a couple things: Do 1L's submit undergrad grades to apply for summer jobs (since they only have one semester or so of law school grades)? Are most summer job ops unpaid? If not how much could one expect to get paid?
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: craven on March 31, 2008, 02:47:00 PM
1. it should be on your transcript, but fall grades do matter.  one way to avoid that is to get your apps in on dec 1 before grades are out
2. generally, yes
3.  pay ranges from $0 to summer stipends offered by law schools/nonprofits ($2k-4k, generally) to those who landed gigs at small firms ($10-$20/hr) to those who were lucky enough to get biglaw 1L gigs (generally minority students, they can expect to make upwards of $20k over the summer).
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: Peaches on March 31, 2008, 02:48:48 PM
1L grades:  You may begin writing firms on December 1.  Some offers are awarded without a firm ever receiving your grades, but most firms that are interested in you will require your first semester grades when available (especially if you do not attend a top school).  They may interview you before grades, but most offers aren't awarded until they've seen the numbers.  Undergrad and law school prestige matters for many firms for 1Ls. 

Job payment rates range from losing money over the summer to $3000+/wk.  Obviously there are more jobs at the lower end of that scale and fewer jobs available at the higher end of the scale.

Ask the career services office for the schools you're considering attending for a list of the positions that 1Ls last year accepted.  If the school won't give you the data, then you should assume that most of the students were in unpaid positions. 
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: Peaches on March 31, 2008, 02:52:45 PM
Also, while many firms have diversity programs and because of that minority students may have a higher chance of landing firm jobs, I definitely wouldn't say that 1L summer associates are "generally minority students."  Some schools have over 50% placement with market-paying firms; most of them are not minority. 
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: 0L_Anxiety on March 31, 2008, 06:54:43 PM
Thanks so much for all the info guys! I really appreciate.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: uart on March 31, 2008, 11:13:37 PM
Also, while many firms have diversity programs and because of that minority students may have a higher chance of landing firm jobs, I definitely wouldn't say that 1L summer associates are "generally minority students."  Some schools have over 50% placement with market-paying firms; most of them are not minority. 


1L BIGLAW summer associates are usually either:

1) From HYS
2) Minorities
3) Have a connection
4) Technical IP/Patent folks
5) Super-students.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: craven on April 01, 2008, 05:29:25 AM
Peaches, can you show me a law school that isn't harvard or yale that has a 50% biglaw placement for 1Ls?
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: uart on April 01, 2008, 07:12:53 AM
Peaches, can you show me a law school that isn't harvard or yale that has a 50% biglaw placement for 1Ls?

Stanford.


Pay attention, dude.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: Peaches on April 01, 2008, 08:06:22 AM
Dunno about 50% placement with "biglaw", but I think a lot of schools in the T14 are at or near 50% for firms that pay at or near market.  (2000-3200/wk depending on geographic area)  I'm at a T14 and know lots of people with multiple offers in that range and several who are splitting. 

Like I said, law school prestige is a huge factor for 1L hiring.  Undergrad prestige can be a big deal at some firms.  Grades always matter for biglaw.  And based on my experience and my conversations with people the power of "connections," a lot of times, weren't all they were cracked up to be. 

Captain's list of five categories is a bit more accurate than  craven's ignorant "generally minority students" comment, but I think Captain underestimates the ability of students with good grades and prior work experience to land a  high-paying 1L summer job.  And if you're not targeting NYC, Boston, DC, Chicago a geographic connection, good grades at an excellent school, work experience, good personality, and knowing what firms want will generally get you something.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: craven on April 01, 2008, 09:39:14 AM
My comment was merely to illustrate the fact that a large number of 1L jobs at big firms I looked at were carved out for diversity fellowships.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: plex on April 01, 2008, 11:12:38 AM
Also, while many firms have diversity programs and because of that minority students may have a higher chance of landing firm jobs, I definitely wouldn't say that 1L summer associates are "generally minority students."  Some schools have over 50% placement with market-paying firms; most of them are not minority. 


1L BIGLAW summer associates are usually either:

1) From HYS
2) Minorities
3) Have a connection
4) Technical IP/Patent folks
5) Super-students.

This is sort of right, except for category 1, if you look at the vault rankings (which are really only good for what schools biglaw pulls from) you will see HYS is not actually where the highest number of students get pulled from, for example, Yale is 14th. On the other hand HYS offers a wider range of oppurtunities beyond just 1L biglaw, like, for example, the White House  :P. But that one takes, 1, a LOT of 3 and maybe some 2.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: uart on April 01, 2008, 04:53:35 PM
Also, while many firms have diversity programs and because of that minority students may have a higher chance of landing firm jobs, I definitely wouldn't say that 1L summer associates are "generally minority students."  Some schools have over 50% placement with market-paying firms; most of them are not minority. 


1L BIGLAW summer associates are usually either:

1) From HYS
2) Minorities
3) Have a connection
4) Technical IP/Patent folks
5) Super-students.

This is sort of right, except for category 1, if you look at the vault rankings (which are really only good for what schools biglaw pulls from) you will see HYS is not actually where the highest number of students get pulled from, for example, Yale is 14th. On the other hand HYS offers a wider range of oppurtunities beyond just 1L biglaw, like, for example, the White House  :P. But that one takes, 1, a LOT of 3 and maybe some 2.

Firms pull students from HYS. HYS students are less likely than others to work in firms. A high number of them go into academia, for example. If it makes you feel better though, replace "HYS" with "elite schools"
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: Penn263 on April 24, 2008, 04:35:28 AM
Do summer employers ask for LSAT scores?
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: laurenlaw on April 24, 2008, 07:22:57 AM
I've never encountered a job interview that asked for my LSAT score.  By then, you already have a semester of grades and an official/unofficial GPA.  That, in combination with the school it's coming from, is enough to get the picture.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: stgreenberg on May 02, 2008, 10:21:34 AM
I applied to about 50 firms in the salary range I wanted ($125K+) and ended up getting an interview through OCI at my school for one of them. Did well in the interview and callback and I am now working at a top regional firm for my 1L summer.  Also helped that I am towards the top of my class (Albeit at a tier 2 school) and had a stellar undergrad record and some work experience.

-Sam
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: philosophia on June 07, 2008, 08:45:20 PM
Yeah, I'm an entering 1L at a Tier2 school (actually it's also my alma mater, which I know some of you will criticize), but nonetheless, do these strategies work for people like me?  People with a decent UG GPA, one year commercial real estate experience, real estate license, a kid, and a 'winning personality'?!?!?

I am terrified that I will end up without a gig for the summer, and in turn, my chances of getting a nice paying job ($100,000+) will diminish significantly thereafter.

Is it even worth thinking I could land a job like that?  Obviously, if I end up in the Top 5% things may be easier, but I am certainly not placing all of my eggs in that basket!!!

I am going to school in the location I want to practice (Atlanta, GA) and have some firms in mind.  I also looked on NALP and the websites for the firms and there are a number of partners from my school at many of them.  I'm not opposed to govt positions and have really considered public interest for a career.  What can I do to up my chances to land a nice job my 1L summer?

And, out of curiosity, are white women considered "minorities"?  ;)

Just a thought...
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: jacy85 on June 08, 2008, 09:21:52 AM
Yeah, I'm an entering 1L at a Tier2 school (actually it's also my alma mater, which I know some of you will criticize), but nonetheless, do these strategies work for people like me?  People with a decent UG GPA, one year commercial real estate experience, real estate license, a kid, and a 'winning personality'?!?!?

I am terrified that I will end up without a gig for the summer, and in turn, my chances of getting a nice paying job ($100,000+) will diminish significantly thereafter.

Is it even worth thinking I could land a job like that?  Obviously, if I end up in the Top 5% things may be easier, but I am certainly not placing all of my eggs in that basket!!!

I am going to school in the location I want to practice (Atlanta, GA) and have some firms in mind.  I also looked on NALP and the websites for the firms and there are a number of partners from my school at many of them.  I'm not opposed to govt positions and have really considered public interest for a career.  What can I do to up my chances to land a nice job my 1L summer?

And, out of curiosity, are white women considered "minorities"?  ;)

Just a thought...

Your 1L job has very, very little bearing on what you do 2L summer.  I worked for a DA's office my 1L summer, unpaid, and yet landed a big firm SA gig 2L summer.  Very, very few 1Ls (total, of all 1Ls, from all schools) land 1L big firm jobs, and many of those that do go to T1 schools.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: cantwaitforuva on June 09, 2008, 11:34:37 AM
Like other people have said I would definitely pick a few less competitive areas to target as well as the usual big cities. As long as you can demonstrate some reason you would want to work in those regions, you should have a couple nice back-up offers in those areas in case your favorite area isn't so kind. For example, I'm from a decent sized city on the West Coast and in addition to applying to major East Coast markets, I will apply to firms in my home town. They're more likely to offer me a job because I go to a much better school than all of their local schools and I have strong ties to the area.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: TimMitchell on June 09, 2008, 03:24:24 PM
tag
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: philosophia on June 10, 2008, 09:16:40 PM
Thanks for the advice and encouraging words... sometimes this board amps my anxiety level!  :)
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: Jhuen_the_bird on June 11, 2008, 06:17:13 AM
Thanks for the advice and encouraging words... sometimes this board amps my anxiety level!  :)

Wow.  Don't worry so much this far in advance.  You shouldn't even be thinking about it now.  Your focus = adjust to and enjoy law school, and do the best you can (grade-wise).  Your career development folks should be really helpful for this whole process, but do take everything they say w/ a grain of salt (I know ours are overly firm-happy, and really disregard people who want to get experience in criminal law or people who want to work with a judge).  Anyway ... also, don't get too hooked into thinking you MUST have a big fabulous firm job your first summer - it probably isn't going to happen.  Yeah, when I saw that some law students make up to 20grand for a summer - that looked GREAT.  But I know that the chances of getting those gigs (especially for after 1L) are slim.

Anything you do that gives you *legal* experience is well-worth your time.  Don't worry about getting paid ... I'm doing an "unpaid" externship this summer ... but somehow I'm going to come out w/ over 4grand for the summer (work study / federal funding/ public interest/government funds).  Not a big law number, but not too shabby, I think :)
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: philosophia on June 11, 2008, 07:38:44 PM
Right on. I definitely have things in perspective; I just tend to be really neurotic at times. I appreciate you sharing, though.  Before this summer, I really wanted to go into public interest and haven't ruled it out.  Somehow I have let some dimwits on this board scare me into thinking it's BIGLAW or bust.  I know that isn't true, of course, but I get caught up in the hype.  Plus, like most people going into LS, I believe I will be in that small percentage of super-geniuses that lands an awesome job... hey, one can dream, you know!!!

Actually, if you care to know, yesterday I finally had to let some frustration out on this board and try to refocus myself  (and hopefully a few others) re: school prestige vs. scholarship $$ and all the elitist comments that take place in some of the dicussions here.  Some people are so hell bent on BIGLAW and big salaries that they can't see past their own aszes.  Hope I can keep my perspective through this next year.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: Changed Name on June 12, 2008, 09:14:15 AM
I wouldn't count out the 1L firm job.  There are lots of firms that don't pay $3k/wk but that do pay $1100, 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800.... 

I'm working at one firm paying $2k/wk, and I'm with one T50 student, one T2 student, one T3 student and a student at a new law school.  All are very personable and friendly.  The other firm I'm working primarily hires T14 students, with a few of the top students from the local T50. 

Quote
Don't worry so much this far in advance.  You shouldn't even be thinking about it now.

You can prepare for the 1L job search now by FINDING those firms, researching them, editing and preparing cover letters and inserting the firm information, preparing the e-mails to send to each firm, etc.  You can't send them out until December 1, but that will be exam time.  I know a lot of people put off the job search for exams, and I think they were at a disadvantage.  I started in September/October, but it would have been nice to have the bulk of this done before school.  You will never have more time than you have right now. :)

Many people interview in December or January.  Some have offers before grades come out.  But it's also nice to be able to e-mail them when your grades come out and basically say "I first contacted you on December 2.... I remain interested in your firm; here are my grades."


I have a question: How would one go about finding those types of firms you mentioned? I'm assuming NALP wouldn't be so helpful in this area, right?

And lastly, I know the start date to begin contacting firms is December 1, but how much of an advantage is that when you don't have first semester grades? My current experience is working as a law clerk at a small firm, but I'm sure that's not really going to dazzle anybody into wanting to interview me for a summer position.

Thanks!
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: The Artist on June 13, 2008, 02:36:59 PM
tag
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: Best-Legal-Aid.com on July 05, 2008, 08:28:45 AM
For the first semester, just focus on your grades.  If you do well in your class, everything else will take care of itself.
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: sstar on July 21, 2008, 12:18:39 AM
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Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: Raul Duke on July 22, 2008, 09:23:46 AM
Tag
Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: LegallyAccepted on July 22, 2008, 12:35:56 PM
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Title: Re: 1L Summer job process
Post by: BuckStoppage on August 08, 2008, 11:16:31 AM
So I can't take off to Europe for vacation if I want a 1L SA gig? Do firms interview before start of spring semester?