Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: T. Durden on October 20, 2006, 10:40:09 AM

Title: State of the job market...
Post by: T. Durden on October 20, 2006, 10:40:09 AM
Is it just me or does it seem like the job market for 2Ls sucks right now?

Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: jacy85 on October 20, 2006, 11:08:51 AM
I don't think it's just you, as a lot of my friends and classmates are saying the same thing.

I'm also not sure how much of a recent problem it is; seems like this has been the trend the last few years.  :(
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: tenth8sphere on October 20, 2006, 11:46:36 AM
Too many schools. Too large class sizes.
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: T. Durden on October 20, 2006, 01:40:27 PM
it's very frustrating .. all that hard 1L work seem to be for nothing...
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: S| on October 20, 2006, 03:33:46 PM
It's not the job market.
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: Bored 3L on October 20, 2006, 06:06:21 PM
Actually, for big firms anyway, this  year the market is supposed to be quite strong, stronger than it has been in years. 
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: T. Durden on October 20, 2006, 06:09:05 PM
hahaha well

i guess that leaves me with only one conclusion...
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: xferlawstudent on October 20, 2006, 06:15:42 PM
Wages are thru the roof for 2L associates.  That's no sign of a struggling market.
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: Bored 3L on October 20, 2006, 07:04:43 PM
hahaha well

i guess that leaves me with only one conclusion...

The only set of objective data I'm aware of points to a strong market.  Take from it what you will. 
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: T. Durden on October 20, 2006, 07:11:18 PM
everyone is getting a lot of interviews

very few of us are actually landing jobs, however (t14 and t20 biglaw applicants)

maybe this is how it's supposed to go? i don't know... it's tough out there...
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: xferlawstudent on October 20, 2006, 07:25:22 PM
Also, I've heard that some huge percentage of applicants get non-BIGLAW jobs (smaller firms, govt, etc).  I forgot the percentage.  Good luck.
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: T. Durden on October 20, 2006, 08:10:03 PM
yeah i guess the next step is for me to apply to those positions...
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: unlvcrjchick on October 20, 2006, 09:10:54 PM
My conclusion is the job market sucks right now.  For instance, I only landed ONE freaking interview, and I'm in the top third of my class AND on Law Review!  There can be no other explanation for it.  Oh well, at least I have a decent legal job now....
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: roygbiv on October 21, 2006, 03:33:44 AM
To be frank (I have close friends at UNLV), your career services office stinks which has a lot to do with your OCI problems. The CSO office primarily focuses on Vegas firms. They need to start beating on the doors of AZ, NM, UT, CA, etc. firms.

Also, the Dean isn't doing enough to mitigate your poor bar passage rate and drop in rankings to firms. Yeah, he will tell you that the school is fine but the bottom line is that firms care about that stuff.

Think about it this way, NALP says 12 firms are at your OCI and lets say there are another 3 non-NALP firms. Even if every firm took 2 UNLV kids, everyone in the top 1/3rd still wouldn't get a job. And more likely, some of those firms won't take any UNLV kids especially since they have people from Duke, WUSTL, Northwestern, etc. also applying these days. Go and check the local firms' sites and see where their incoming associates went to school.

Nationally, business is good for law firms. Lots of Big Law firms in NYC and Chicago don't have enough incoming associates and are desperately seeking 3Ls. Salaries are up. Schools are getting requests for more resumes' for summer associates everyday. They just aren't asking UNLV.

I don't mean this as a slam, but hopefully as motivation for you all to go to the administration and tell them to right the ship. No reason you guys should be missing the bus.

My conclusion is the job market sucks right now.  For instance, I only landed ONE freaking interview, and I'm in the top third of my class AND on Law Review!  There can be no other explanation for it.  Oh well, at least I have a decent legal job now....
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: unlvcrjchick on October 21, 2006, 03:50:24 PM
Notwithstanding your arguments about how much UNLV sucks, the fact of the matter is this: I only applied to Las Vegas firms (and many if not most of the associates who work at Las Vegas firms ARE UNLV graduates) , since I haven't any interest in practicing law outside of Las Vegas.  So, this still does NOT explain why several of my classmates, many of whom who failed to rank, scored innumerable interviews and I didn't...It's a good thing that I don't have my heart set on being a litigator anyway, for if I did, I'd be crushed by the horrible experience I've had with OCI.
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: roygbiv on October 21, 2006, 04:58:39 PM
I don't want to get into a huge debate here. I honestly was trying to help. My friends like UNLV, just not career services.

That having been said, it doesn't seem like there is a problem with the job market if your friends are getting interviews.

Notwithstanding your arguments about how much UNLV sucks, the fact of the matter is this: I only applied to Las Vegas firms (and many if not most of the associates who work at Las Vegas firms ARE UNLV graduates) , since I haven't any interest in practicing law outside of Las Vegas.  So, this still does NOT explain why several of my classmates, many of whom who failed to rank, scored innumerable interviews and I didn't...It's a good thing that I don't have my heart set on being a litigator anyway, for if I did, I'd be crushed by the horrible experience I've had with OCI.
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: unlvcrjchick on October 22, 2006, 01:30:30 AM
My intention was not to engage in a debate.  I just wanted to make the point that if someone who is in the top third of her class and on Law Review, a credential I was led to believe is quite valuable to most employers, and is still unable to get interviews, there is something wrong here.  There can only be one other explanation as to why my classmates are getting interviews:  they are full-time students, whereas I'm a part-time student who has a full-time job. 

I've been told that many employers look down upon part-time students because they question their commitment to law school:  "she must not be committed if she didn't devote her entire waking hours to law school." 

You would think that employers would look more favorably on part-time students who work because you know that part-time working students are NOT lazy and are, in fact, much more committed to law school than your typical 22-year-old kid who knows nothing about the real world because he/she has yet to enter it.
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: meenie8 on October 22, 2006, 06:23:57 AM
maybe you have a typo on your resume...
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: racheles05 on October 22, 2006, 08:57:56 AM
Salaries are going up so I don't think the market is bad. Maybe it's more competitive because more people are splitting their summers?
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: moonchigger on October 22, 2006, 09:01:00 AM
My intention was not to engage in a debate.  I just wanted to make the point that if someone who is in the top third of her class and on Law Review, a credential I was led to believe is quite valuable to most employers, and is still unable to get interviews, there is something wrong here.  There can only be one other explanation as to why my classmates are getting interviews:  they are full-time students, whereas I'm a part-time student who has a full-time job. 

Do you network and actually know lawyers or are you just participating in OCI and sending out resumes blindly?

Itís a Decentralized, Chaotic Job Market.  Networking works and is an essential job search tool because the job market (both the
advertised and hidden) is decentralized. The advertised job market has limitations.  It probably represents no more than 10-25% of actual job openings.  It tends to represent positions at the extreme ends of the job spectrum (low paid unskilled or highly paid, highly skilled jobs), even though the majority of positions fall somewhere between these two extremes.  Many positions are filled prior to being advertised.  The hidden job market has the greater opportunity.  75-90% or more of the job opportunities are found here, despite the fact that this market lacks a formal structure.
Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: roygbiv on October 22, 2006, 10:20:05 AM
Law Review is not a golden ticket to a job, it just helps. A person could be in the bottom half and write on to law review and it doesn't mean they have a golden ticket. Especially at UNLV where everyone essentially writes-on, it's much more of a crap shoot than other schools where the top 15% grade on so it's a bigger sign that you are a high performer.

I admittedly don't have a lot of experience with part-time students but perhaps they don't think you'll be able to work summers because you have a full-time job? And no offense, but in looking at some of your older posts, maybe the inconsistency in your grades is another contributing factor.

Bottom line, on the whole, the vast majority of people nationwide don't get jobs through OCI. It's a crapshoot and you can't count on it unless you go to an elite school.   

My intention was not to engage in a debate.  I just wanted to make the point that if someone who is in the top third of her class and on Law Review, a credential I was led to believe is quite valuable to most employers, and is still unable to get interviews, there is something wrong here.  There can only be one other explanation as to why my classmates are getting interviews:  they are full-time students, whereas I'm a part-time student who has a full-time job. 

I've been told that many employers look down upon part-time students because they question their commitment to law school:  "she must not be committed if she didn't devote her entire waking hours to law school." 

You would think that employers would look more favorably on part-time students who work because you know that part-time working students are NOT lazy and are, in fact, much more committed to law school than your typical 22-year-old kid who knows nothing about the real world because he/she has yet to enter it.

Title: Re: State of the job market...
Post by: RenaldoBalkman on November 27, 2006, 08:25:10 PM
Actually, for big firms anyway, this  year the market is supposed to be quite strong, stronger than it has been in years. 

I have found this to be correct, at least in the NYC job market.  Market is great as long as you didn't go to a non-t1 and did decently well.  I know lotsof people who had mediocre grades and are still working v100.  Friends at Fordham and Cardozo all agree that the market has been very good this year for biglaw hopefuls.