Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: DonaldR on October 07, 2006, 03:51:37 AM

Title: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: DonaldR on October 07, 2006, 03:51:37 AM
I was barely aware that the Congressional page program still existed, but if it wasn't already clear that it should have been ended long ago, it certainly should be now.  No, I don't think that most Congressmen or Senators would even think about doing what Foley has done, although the bipartisan page scandal in 1984 involving Democrat Gerry Studds and Republican Daniel Crane suggests it isn't unique, either.  And that one also disproves some of what you'll see on the FREEP boards that abusing teenagers is somehow exclusively the province of gays, since Crane was involved with a FEMALE page, to the best of my recollection.
Title: Here it is a Time Article
Post by: rove on October 07, 2006, 04:02:32 AM
Time to Close the Book on Washington Pages?

In the wake of the Foley scandal, some House members are calling for the suspension, if not the end, of Congress' venerable study program

By TRACY SAMANTHA SCHMIDT/ WASHINGTON

If former Speaker Tip O'Neill still led the House of Representatives today, the Congressional page program might be shut down once and for all. In 1983, he threatened to do just that in the wake of another scandal involving a Congressman and a teenage page. At the time, the House was investigating allegations that two Congressmen had sexual relations with teenage pages. Representatives Daniel Crane, an Illinois Republican, and Gerry Studds, a Democrat from Massachusetts, were eventually censured for having had sex with a female page and male page, respectively. The scandal led to changes in the page program — including raising the age of pages from 14 to 16, housing the pages in a supervised dormitory, and establishing a page board to oversee the program. "I think we have everything under control now," O'Neill was quoted as saying in the New York Times. "I don't think we ought to abolish the system. But I will say this: One more scandal and bam! The page system is through."

Twenty-three years and another sex scandal later, it's House Speaker Dennis Hastert's turn to scrutinize the page program. Facing growing criticism over his handling of the scandal, Hastert announced Thursday that he is launching an investigation to evaluate and make improvements to the program. "We will do everything possible to make the program safe for the kids while they are in our care in Washington, D.C., and to make sure we can be a resource for their parents once they return home," Hastert said at a press conference outside his office in Batavia, Ill., where he explained that while he was sorry for what had happened he had no intention of resigning his leadership position. "I haven't done anything wrong," said Hastert.

No one has yet been named to lead the investigation, though Louis Freeh, the former FBI director, was Hastert's potential pick. Before Thursday's press conference, Hastert called House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi to say that he was planning to name Freeh. Pelosi objected, telling Hastert, "We need to talk about this and we need to work in a bipartisan way," according to her press secretary, Brendan Daly. Hastert subsequently did not name Freeh at his press conference. Hastert's announcement of the investigation comes three days after Representative Ray LaHood, a fellow Illinois Republican and friend of Hastert, called for the page program to be temporarily suspendend. "This is a flawed program," LaHood told TIME. "The fact that a member of Congress is sending e-mails to a page and that he can get away with it [shows that] obviously there are problems." Two more Republican representatives, Jon Porter of Nevada and Kay Granger of Texas, also supported LaHood's reccommendation to suspend the page program until an outside team could evaluate its security protocol.

One problem is that the approximately 70 House pages are also in school. When Congress is in session during the school year, the pages attend private, junior-level classes each morning at the Library of Congress. In order not to disrupt their studies, Porter's chief of staff, Mike Hesse, suggested the pages' legislative duty be suspended while they finish up the semester at the Library of Congress. Meanwhile the Office of the Clerk, which runs the House page program, has established a toll-free hotline for current or former pages — and their parents — to report any tips related to Mark Foley or to the page program. The hotline is Hastert's own doing. "As the Speaker, I take responsibility for everything in the building," he said in a statement Thursday morning. "The buck stops here. The safety and security of the students in the page program is imperative."

The House page program is separate from the Senate's program. Approximately 30 pages are a part of that program, which is run by the Sergeant of Arms Office in the Senate. Calls inquiring possible changes to the Senate page program were not returned. Both page programs trace their roots to 1829, when Senator Daniel Webster appointed a 9-year-old boy to be his personal gopher. Since then thousands of young men — and eventually young women — have come to Washington to run errands for the members of Congress. Like many jobs in Washington, getting hired as a page often means having the right political connections. The work is also grueling, especially during the school year, when pages start class at 6:45 a.m. and can stay on the House or Senate floor late into the night.

Many pages have only fond memories of their experiences on Capitol Hill. Megan Smith recalls how much closer she got to representatives as a House page than later as a legislative aide. "The experience was much different as a page — we were sitting on the House floor for 6 or 7 hours a day," says Smith, 23, who was a page from 1999 to 2000. Yet it's exactly that intimacy with Congressmen that worries LaHood. "I think this an antiquated program — it's been over 100 years and needs a total evaluation for the sake of the kids," he said. "Having 15- and 16-year-old young men and women come to Washington, work on the House floor, and work in an environment where members of Congress if they want to can prey on them is not a healthy situation." Of course, Foley has so far been linked via e-mails and instant messages only to former pages, not to teenagers who were in the program at the time. Which means that even if the page program were terminated immediately, the potential for problems will not disappear. But it will prove that former Speaker O'Neill was more foresightful than he knew.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: hoovers on October 07, 2006, 04:11:52 AM
end it . it's obvious they only get those pages there to f**ck them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Pvqe36nRs&eurl=
Title: Gerry Studds
Post by: broccoli on October 07, 2006, 04:24:20 AM
Gerry Eastman Studds (born May 12, 1937) is a retired American politician, born in Mineola, New York. He served as a Democratic Congressman for Massachusetts from 1973 until 1997. He was the first openly homosexual member of the US Congress and, more generally, the first openly gay national politician in the US. In 1983, he admitted to having a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old male page in 1973 and was censured by the House of Representatives.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/S001040.jpg)

Biography

Studds attended Yale University, from which he received a bachelor's degree in history in 1959 and a master's degree in 1961. Following graduation Studds was a foreign service officer in the State Department and then an assistant in the Kennedy White House, where he worked to establish a domestic Peace Corps. Later, he became a teacher at a St. Paul's School in Concord, New Hampshire.

Congress

Studds made his first run for public Congress in 1970, but lost to the incumbent Republican representative in a close election. In his second bid, in 1972, Studds succeeded, becoming the first Democrat in 50 years to win what had been considered a safe Republican seat.


Congressional page sex scandal

Studds was a central figure in the 1983 Congressional page sex scandal, when he and Representative Dan Crane were censured by the House of Representatives for separate sexual relationships with minors – in Studds's case, a 1973 relationship with a 17-year-old male congressional page who was of the age of legal consent, according to state law at the time. The relationship was consensual, but presented ethical concerns relating to working relationships with subordinates.

During the course of the House Ethics Committee's investigation, Studds publicly acknowledged his homosexuality, a disclosure that, according to a Washington Post article, "apparently was not news to many of his constituents." Studds stated in an address to the House, "It is not a simple task for any of us to meet adequately the obligations of either public or private life, let alone both, but these challenges are made substantially more complex when one is, as I am, both an elected public official and gay." He acknowledged that it had been inappropriate to engage in a relationship with a subordinate, and said his actions represented "a very serious error in judgement."

Nonetheless, when the House voted to censure Studds, on July 20, 1983, by a vote of 420-3, as the House read its censure motion aloud, Studds turned his back on the speaker and members in the chamber and ignored them. In addition to the censure, the Democratic leadership stripped Studds of his chairmanship of the House Merchant Marine subcommittee. Studds was later appointed chair of the House Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries. Studds recieved standing ovations, not in Congress as has been reported, but in his home district at his first town meeting following his congressional censure.


Continued service

Studds was re-elected to 5 more terms after the censure. He fought for many issues, including environmental and maritime issues, gay marriage, AIDS funding, and civil rights, particularly for homosexuals.

After Congress

Since retiring from Congress in 1997, Studds has been a lobbyist for the fishing industry. Studds previously worked for two years as executive director of the New Bedford Oceanarium, a facility still under development. Studds and his longtime partner, Dean T. Hara, who have been together since 1991, applied for a marriage license on May 18 and were married in Boston on May 24, 2005, one week after same-sex marriages became legal in Massachusetts. The Gerry E. Studds Stellwagen Bank National Marine Sanctuary, which sits at the mouth of Massachusetts Bay, is named for Studds.

Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: 4agn on October 07, 2006, 04:28:57 AM
Exactly, broccoli, they don't f-ing care, that's why I think the best way to protect the boys is to end the program altogether.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: octopus on October 07, 2006, 07:21:43 PM
4agn, you've got to be kidding us!
Title: Mentor-Protégé
Post by: cheerleader on October 07, 2006, 07:31:36 PM
The program is similar to mentor relationships between professors and students in graduate training programs. Approximately one-half to two-thirds of graduate students have a mentor, and that those who do not are often unaware of the potential benefits of mentoring. Mentoring is associated with numerous personal and professional benefits. Yet, students and faculty often lack understanding of, or worse hold problematic misconceptions regarding the nature and purpose of mentor relationships.

Mentors usually serve as role models, emotional supporters/counselors, sponsors, and evaluators. Usually -- but not necessarily -- the mentor/protégé pair will be of the same sex. The roots of the practice are lost in antiquity. The word itself was inspired by the character of Mentor in Homer's Odyssey. Though the actual Mentor in the story is a somewhat ineffective old man, the goddess Athena takes on his appearance in order to guide young Telemachus in his time of difficulty. 

Famous mentor-protégé pairs include

Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot
Benjamin Mays and Martin Luther King, Jr.
Paul of Tarsus and Timothy
Andrew Carnegie and Napoleon Hill
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: masticco on October 07, 2006, 07:36:12 PM
Interesting, cheerleader! It appears in grad school you'll be looking for a "daddy" or a "mommy," instead of bonding with "brothers" and "sisters"! Or is it both?!
Title: Re: Gerry Studds
Post by: uber on October 08, 2006, 05:03:19 AM
Gerry Eastman Studds (born May 12, 1937) is a retired American politician, born in Mineola, New York. He served as a Democratic Congressman for Massachusetts from 1973 until 1997. He was the first openly homosexual member of the US Congress and, more generally, the first openly gay national politician in the US. In 1983, he admitted to having a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old male page in 1973 and was censured by the House of Representatives.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/S001040.jpg)

Biography

Studds attended Yale University, from which he received a bachelor's degree in history in 1959 and a master's degree in 1961. Following graduation Studds was a foreign service officer in the State Department and then an assistant in the Kennedy White House, where he worked to establish a domestic Peace Corps. Later, he became a teacher at a St. Paul's School in Concord, New Hampshire.

Congress

Studds made his first run for public Congress in 1970, but lost to the incumbent Republican representative in a close election. In his second bid, in 1972, Studds succeeded, becoming the first Democrat in 50 years to win what had been considered a safe Republican seat.


Congressional page sex scandal

Studds was a central figure in the 1983 Congressional page sex scandal, when he and Representative Dan Crane were censured by the House of Representatives for separate sexual relationships with minors – in Studds's case, a 1973 relationship with a 17-year-old male congressional page who was of the age of legal consent, according to state law at the time. The relationship was consensual, but presented ethical concerns relating to working relationships with subordinates.

During the course of the House Ethics Committee's investigation, Studds publicly acknowledged his homosexuality, a disclosure that, according to a Washington Post article, "apparently was not news to many of his constituents." Studds stated in an address to the House, "It is not a simple task for any of us to meet adequately the obligations of either public or private life, let alone both, but these challenges are made substantially more complex when one is, as I am, both an elected public official and gay." He acknowledged that it had been inappropriate to engage in a relationship with a subordinate, and said his actions represented "a very serious error in judgement."

Nonetheless, when the House voted to censure Studds, on July 20, 1983, by a vote of 420-3, as the House read its censure motion aloud, Studds turned his back on the speaker and members in the chamber and ignored them. In addition to the censure, the Democratic leadership stripped Studds of his chairmanship of the House Merchant Marine subcommittee. Studds was later appointed chair of the House Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries. Studds recieved standing ovations, not in Congress as has been reported, but in his home district at his first town meeting following his congressional censure.


Continued service

Studds was re-elected to 5 more terms after the censure. He fought for many issues, including environmental and maritime issues, gay marriage, AIDS funding, and civil rights, particularly for homosexuals.

After Congress

Since retiring from Congress in 1997, Studds has been a lobbyist for the fishing industry. Studds previously worked for two years as executive director of the New Bedford Oceanarium, a facility still under development. Studds and his longtime partner, Dean T. Hara, who have been together since 1991, applied for a marriage license on May 18 and were married in Boston on May 24, 2005, one week after same-sex marriages became legal in Massachusetts. The Gerry E. Studds Stellwagen Bank National Marine Sanctuary, which sits at the mouth of Massachusetts Bay, is named for Studds.


"It's the outfit, stupid."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: dpor on October 08, 2006, 06:36:31 PM
It's really a shame! I mean, how could people be so stupid in today's America and go ahead and reelect a hypocrite like him?
Title: Debra Lafave -- if this whore did not go to jail, do you think Foley will?
Post by: insidedition on October 08, 2006, 09:16:53 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c5/Debralafave.jpg/150px-Debralafave.jpg)

Debra Jean Beasley (born August 28, 1980) is a former reading teacher at Angelo L. Greco Middle School in Temple Terrace, Florida when she was charged with several counts of having illegal sex with a minor in 2005. LaFave, who claimed she was raped by a schoolmate at age 13, was raised by a loving but domineering mother and an attentive but remote father. She sang professionally, did some modeling, and had several relationships. After a high school lesbian affair was discovered, she cut her wrists, and entered therapy. She graduated from the University of South Florida, and began teaching remedial reading. Highly popular with the students, she occasionally dressed inappropriately, sometimes wearing a very short skirt or a low-cut blouse showing cleavage.

According to the book Gorgeous Disaster, by her ex-husband Owen Lafave, she met the 14-year-old student at an after-school tag football game. The relationship developed over a period of weeks. Shortly after school ended for the year, she drove the boy to her home and performed oral sex on him. From then, the relationship turned intimate; they had sex in the back of her SUV while it was being driven by the boy's cousin. The boy's mother soon learned of the affair. She tape-recorded conversations between the lovers, then had Lafave arrested when she drove to the boy's home to pick him up. The boy gave police an accurate description of her tattoos, tan lines, and pubic area. One European newspaper published the boy's name and photo; legal action by his mother led to it being removed from the paper's website.

Because sexual activity took place in two different counties, two separate sets of charges were filed. A trial date was set for December 5 at a court hearing after the prosecution and the defense could not agree on a plea bargain. The prosecution's plea deal involved prison time and the defense found that unacceptable. Debra's defense attorney caused a national stir that made headlines by remarking to the media that "To place Debbie into a Florida state women's penitentiary, to place an attractive young woman in that kind of hell hole, is like putting a piece of raw meat in with the lions." Owen LaFave's book suggests that this statement was an intentional ploy by the attorney.

In September 2005 it was revealed that the Temple Terrace police ordered photographs be taken of Lafave's genital area while her feet were bound up in stirrups. Shortly before the trial was scheduled to begin, the boy's mother, who had been insisting that she serve time in prison, changed her stance and agreed to a plea bargain with no prison time to save her son from having to testify in court. The trial was to be covered by Court TV. A new plea agreement was quickly worked out.

On November 22, 2005, Debra pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 3 years of Community Control (house arrest) and 7 years of probation, along with a string of other requirements. However, on December 8, 2005, the judge in the second county refused to accept plea-agreement terms that included no prison time, and set a trial date for April 10, 2006. In an unusual act, the prosecutor announced the charges were being dropped, in effect, overruling the judge. LaFave is serving probation until 2016. Her teaching certificate has been revoked, and under the "Son of Sam law", she is barred from profiting financially from the case.

LaFave attributed her indiscretions to bipolar disorder, also known as manic depression, which is associated with intense and irregular mood swings and with hypersexuality and poor judgment during manic episodes. As of September 29, 2006, Backstreet Boy Nick Carter stated on the Howard Stern show that he lost his virginity to Debra Lafave when they were classmates.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: aisha on October 09, 2006, 09:16:13 PM

It's really a shame! I mean, how could people be so stupid in today's America and go ahead and reelect a hypocrite like him?


Excuse me, aren't these type of things exactly the ones for which one becomes a senator/congressman/elected official? I mean, that's what having power means, to be able to do things for which "simple" people go to jail if they do them -- go with children, kill, whatever!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: marcello on October 10, 2006, 02:01:58 AM
aisha, that's NOT the way it works. At least it did not work that way in this case.
Title: US Congress = NAMBLA
Post by: carne asada on October 11, 2006, 07:24:52 PM

hahaha, marcello, did ya really think aisha deserved a response?
Title: NAMBLA Exposed!
Post by: chillipepper on October 11, 2006, 07:53:37 PM
Indeed, carne asada, it's sickening to see the Congress members behave like NAMBA sickos.

In August, 2003, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) filed a lawsuit against the state of Kansas over the state's criminal sodomy law involving children. The ACLU is defending Matthew Limon, a homosexual who committed sodomy against a 14-year-old boy in 2000. At the time of his crime, Limon was 18 years old. The ACLU is claiming that Limon's conviction is unconstitutionally discriminatory because the penalties for sodomy with a minor are different than for heterosexual sex with a minor.

Kansas Attorney General Phill KIine says the fairness of Limon's sentence should be a state legislative issue, not a constitutional one. According to Kline, "If the ACLU wins in the thrust of their arguments, it means the state has no right to say that it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a 13-year-old child." Kline also fears that an ACLU victory will make it difficult for the state to enforce laws against polygamy, incest, bestiality, and other sexual perversions.

The effort to abolish "age of consent" laws has been a long-time goal of homosexual activists. The 1972 Gay Rights Platform, for example, called for the abolition of all laws prohibiting sex with children. The platform demands: "Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent."

(http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/nambla_sickos.jpg)

In September, 1995, three homosexual activists published an essay entitled, "The State Of Gay Liberation" in Guide, a homosexual publication. The essay was authored by North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) co-founder David Thorstad, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Professor Richard D. Mohr, and San Francisco journalist Bruce Mirken.

Thorstad, of course, is a life-long pederast and homosexual activist who clearly describes the important linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia. In a speech given before a homosexual group in Mexico in 1998, Thorstad said: "Pederasty is the main form that male homosexuality has acquired throughout Western civilization-and not only in the West! Pederasty is inseparable from the high points of Western culture-ancient Greece and the Renaissance." (David Thorstad, "Pederasty And Homosexuality," NAMBLA web site)

Fellow author Professor Richard Mohr, is a homosexual activist who is an advocate for same-sex marriage and has said he hopes that homosexual marriage will help define "monogamy" out of marriage altogether. (Stanley Kurtz, "Beyond Gay Marriage," The Weekly Standard, Aug. 4-11, 2003)

Bruce Mirken is a homosexual and San Francisco journalist who was arrested in 1998 for attempting to have sex with a 13-year-old boy he had contacted through the Internet. When he entered a Sacramento park to sodomize the boy, he was met by police who had been tracking his activities on the Internet. The charges were eventually dropped against him on a technicality.

Sexual Liberation For Children

Thorstad and Professor Mohr want sexual liberation for children and Mirken believes that AIDS activism is what will help perpetuate and strengthen the homosexual movement.

According to David Thorstad, in "The State Of Gay Liberation," homosexuals must get back to a "radical vision of sexual freedom for all. We need to reaffirm our place in the great variety of same-sex behaviors that exist-have always existed-in human societies. We dare not allow our homosexual gift to be alienated from us by the limited vision, stifling political correctness, and erotophobic provincialism." In short, homosexuals should openly support the promotion of adult/child sex!

Professor Mohr argues that the use of "gay youth" is a key to gaining political and cultural victories in the U.S. He writes: "...these brave youth are key to culture's change on gay issues. Thanks to them, increasingly people know someone for whom being gay is an issue. Thanks to them the gay movement is achieving critical mass." Bruce Mirken claims that radical AIDS activism is what will save the homosexual movement from decline.

The effort to push adult/child sex isn't limited to these three homosexual activists. It is part of the overall homosexual movement. As author Mary Eberstadt wrote in "Pedophilia Chic: Reconsidered" in The Weekly Standard, (Jan. 1, 2001): "The reason why the public is being urged to reconsider boy pedophilia is that this 'question,' settled though it may be in the opinions and laws of the rest of the country, is demonstrably not yet settled within certain parts of the gay rights movement." Eberstadt notes that as the homosexual movement becomes more mainstream, this "question" about adult/child sex will become more prominent. Homosexuals who desire sex with children will do exactly what the ACLU is doing in Kansas: Destroy all laws banning sex between adults and children.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: tustetas on October 11, 2006, 08:40:19 PM
In the ancient pagan Mystery Religions, homosexuality and pedophilia were popularized. Worshippers of Baal erected shrines and temples of male prostitution (I Kings 14). Roman Emperors Nero, Caligula, and Commodus engaged in incest, sex with boys, bondage, and a variety of evil crimes. So, too, did those in Pharaoh's court. Alexander the Great was a homosexual who loved little boys.

When the Spanish Conquistadors conquered Central America and the Yucatan in Mexico, they found that most native Indian priests were sodomites. In their pagan temples were sacred statues depicting gay sex acts. In Babylon, people sacrificed and prayed to gods and goddesses requesting sexual favors and carnal pleasures.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6846/sealofknightsnn3.gif)
Two versions of the official seal of the Knights Templar, precursors of the Freemasons. Note that in the version at right, the two riders carry a shield. But, in the other version of the seal (left), one's shield is gone and the knight has placed his hand in a most sensitive area of his body.

The Knights Templar and Baphomet

In the 14th century, a Catholic band of crusaders known as the Order of Knights Templar grew in power and riches. They and their leader, their Sovereign Grand Master, Frenchman Jacques DeMolay, built temples and tabernacles of worship. Only Knights Templar initiates could enter therein. Soon, reports spread of the grotesque and unseemly mode of worship of these depraved men. Their secret religion was based on worship of an androgynous (1/2 male, 1/2 female) satanic goat god named Baphomet.

In the Knights Templar rituals, a crucifix of Jesus was reviled and urinated on, and homosexual orgies were rumored. Strangely, the seal, or coat of arms, of the Order depicted two knights riding on one horse! Was this an emblem of their homosexual passion or, as the Templars protested, a statement of their "brotherly love?"

When the rumors and gossip of their antichrist activities reached a feverish pitch, the Kings of continental Europe were forced to move against the Order. Their Sovereign Grand Master, DeMolay, was tried, convicted and burned at the stake, their temples shut down. Amazingly, the Knights Templar survived, hiding out in Scotland and underground in Europe. Then, in the 1800s, they made a startling comeback in the new form of Freemasonry! Today, the Masonic youth group is even named the DeMolays. Bill Clinton, as a teenager, was a member of this organization.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2813/baphomethi2.gif)
Baphomet, the half male, half female goat god of the Knights Templar, was revived by Eliphas Levi, the infamous 19th century Freemason and magician and reportedly is worshipped today by homosexual cults.

"Cuomo the Homo"

Political networks of both political parties are eaten up by gay men. Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo, a Democrat, has been labeled "Cuomo the Homo." New York's former Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, a Republican, has been known to dress up as a woman transvestite.

The Mayor also carried on an open affair with a female assistant. And when Giuliani and his wife separated, the Mayor moved in with two gay male friends. He now resides in the Manhattan apartment the gay couple share.

(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9448/rudiaqc1.gif)
New York's Mayor Rudolph Giuliani performed on stage as "Rudia," transvestite, at the annual Inner Circle banquet for the elite. Giuliani now lives in an apartment with two homosexual men but has a female lover. Time magazine named Giuliani its "Person of the Year" for 2001.

Indeed, according to The New York Times, the Mayor actually performed in female attire, posing as "Rudia the Transvestite" at a nightclub. The occasion: The annual "Inner Circle" show.

The late Senator and Vice-President Hubert Humphrey often frolicked about nude in the YMCA swimming pool in Minneapolis. President Lyndon B. Johnson skinny-dipped with male friends, including evangelist Billy Graham and his Vice President, Hubert. In fact, the "Y" is a popular meeting place for homo politicians and religious bigwigs. The gay disco group, The Village People, in coded language revealed such wicked goings on in their national hit record tune, Y-M-C-A!

The Republicans even have a sodomite lobby group, which calls itself the Log Cabin Republicans. Senator Bob Dole heavily pandered to these "conservative" queers during his presidential campaign.
Title: America the D a m n e d
Post by: noeresuficientementefeliz on October 11, 2006, 11:32:14 PM
I've been reading so much online about the current American travesties that I can't remember where I saw a list of criteria that are indicators of the imminent fall of an empire. If I remember correctly, this country is exhibiting all of them. On top of that we have horrific tales of pedophiliac priests rising out of the religious dark, and an increasing number of news stories of parents breaking apart their kids' bodies and spirits.

My son ruminates online about his painful alienation from his country of birth, and we all wait to see if something awful will happen on the day on which we celebrate the ideal that America was supposed to strive toward. No wonder we're all depressed. There is hardly anything that is in our control anymore. It makes me wonder about what exactly IS still in our control.

Maybe all we have is all we really can expect to have as humans on this planet: the challenges of daily survival; of creating ways to connect with and love each other; of working toward and celebrating small successes because the large ones will always be out of our control; of learning how to share our successes with each other so that we can all hope beyond the daily.

Perhaps we humans have gotten too arrogant. We assume that we can control -- each other, the elements, the whims of the universe. The truth is, it seems to me, that the only thing that we each have control over is our own Self. And nowhere in our upbringings or educations are we taught to understand that and how to accomplish that with love, compassion, joy, and meaningful connection. Maybe those of us who survive what comes next will be those of us who can hunker down, live small, stay connected with similar souls, wait for it all to blow over. If it doesn't blow us all up before we make it through.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: denis on October 12, 2006, 03:54:00 AM
They're going to protest today in front of the house of Hastert in Batavia given the fact that he hopes to gain the support of the a s s h o l e (Bush going to Chicago today)
Title: Bush Defends Defenders of Child Predator
Post by: mcsweeney on October 12, 2006, 04:28:06 PM
Quote
Bush: Hastert, GOP unhurt by scandal
Says taxes, security will drive election

By Mark Silva,
Published October 12, 2006

WASHINGTON -- President Bush, maintaining that the congressional page scandal has neither hampered his party's chances on Election Day nor hurt the credibility of House Speaker Dennis Hastert, said Wednesday that his party's commitment to cutting taxes and protecting national security will "drive the election."

"I believe taxes are a big issue in the campaign," the president said in a Rose Garden news conference. "How best to protect the country is a big issue, a really big issue. . . . And I believe those two issues will be the issues that drive the election."

If he says so, it must be so ... LOL
Title: Gay Republicans
Post by: fortunewheel on October 12, 2006, 04:43:44 PM
Beginning in the late 1970's, Republicans seized control of every branch of the U.S. government in part through vicious gay-baiting.

After Bill Clinton won his first victory in 1992, Republicans immediately and relentlessly attacked him for tolerating gays in the military.

In 2004, Bush and the Republican Party made their opposition to gay marriage the centerpiece of their campaign. They put anti-gay marriage amendments on state ballots to turn out homophobic voters. They furiously attacked John Kerry for pointing out (in a supportive way) that male private part Cheney's own daughter is openly gay.

The list below includes individuals who have been identified as gay.

- Terry Dolan
Ran NCPAC to elect far-right Republicans in the 1970's when they were attacking gay victims of AIDS. Died of AIDS.

-  David Dreier
Powerful Congressman who votes consistently against gay rights.
Closeted gay.

- James Guckert
Wrote gay-bashing articles for right-wing Talon News service. Gay prostitute.

- Ken Mehlman
Ran George Bush's 2004 campaign with anti-gay marriage as central issue; now Chairman of the Republican Party. Closeted gay.

- Armstrong Williams
Regularly attacked gay marriage on CNN. Settled gay sex harassment lawsuit for $200K.

- John Lowndes
Outed and divorced from the Christian Coalition.

- Tod Burnett
Environmental Protection Agency. (Burnett is a former advisor to liberal Republican and former Los Angeles mayor Richard Riordan).

- Donald Capoccia
Serves on a national arts commission.

- Scott Evertz
White House Office of National AIDS. (Active member of the Log Cabin Republicans).

- Stephen Fong
Federal Transit Administration. (former president of Log Cabin Republicans of San Francisco).

- Michael E. Guest
U.S. ambassador to Romania. (Only second open homosexual ever to represent America as a national ambassador)
 
- Stephen Herbits
Special consultant to the Secretary (screens job applicants at the Pentagon.) Herbits an original member of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation and raised funds for numerous gay and lesbian community organizations.

- Mark Groombridge
State Department special assistant to John Bolton, Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security. Groombridge is a member of Log Cabin Republicans of D.C., and the homosexual libertarian group Gays & Lesbians for Individual Liberties.

- Jim Wiggins
Environmental Protection Agency.
 
- Jim Kolbe (R) Ariz.
U.S. House of Representatives

- Karl Rove
Rove is known to frequent gay bars alone, both in DC and in Austin.

- Scott McClellan
Title: Caligula
Post by: buddyboy on October 12, 2006, 10:32:58 PM

In the ancient pagan Mystery Religions, homosexuality and pedophilia were popularized. Worshippers of Baal erected shrines and temples of male prostitution (I Kings 14). Roman Emperors Nero, Caligula, and Commodus engaged in incest, sex with boys, bondage, and a variety of evil crimes.


Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (August 31, A.D. 12 – January 24, A.D. 41), most commonly known as Caligula, was the third Roman Emperor and a member of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, ruling from 37 to 41. Known for his extreme extravagance, eccentricity, depravity and cruelty, he is remembered as a despot. He was assassinated in 41 by several of his own guards.

The Roman historian Suetonius referred to Caligula as a "monster", and the surviving sources are universal in their condemnation. One popular tale, often cited as an example of his insanity and tyranny, is that Caligula appointed his favorite horse, Incitatus, to a seat on the senate and attempted to appoint it to the position of consul. The story, however, owes its unrelenting currency to its charm: it is based on a single misunderstood near-contemporary reference, in which Suetonius merely repeats an unattributed rumour that Caligula was thinking about doing it. Caligula is often alleged to have had incestuous relationships with his sisters, most notably his younger sister Drusilla, but there is no credible evidence to support such claims either. In short, the surviving sources are filled with anecdotes of Caligula's cruelty and insanity rather than an actual account of his reign, making any reconstruction of his time as Princeps nearly impossible. What does survive is the picture of a depraved, hedonistic ruler, an image that has made Caligula one of the most widely recognizable, if poorly documented, of all the Roman Emperors; the name "Caligula" itself has become synonymous with wanton hedonism, cruelty, tyranny, and insanity.

Gaius' life started out promisingly, as he was the son of extremely famous parents. Germanicus was a grandson to Tiberius Claudius Nero and Livia, Augustus's third wife, as well as an adoptive grandson of Augustus himself. He was thus a prominent member of the Julio-Claudian dynasty and was revered as son of the most beloved general of the Roman Empire. Agrippina was herself a granddaughter of Augustus and Scribonia. She was considered a model of the perfect Roman woman. As a boy of just two or three, he accompanied his parents on military campaigns in the north of Germania and became the mascot of his father's army. The soldiers were amused whenever Agrippina would put young Gaius in a miniature soldier costume, and he was soon given his nickname Caligula, meaning "Little (Soldier's) boot", after the small boots he wore as part of his costume.

(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5256/800pxcaligaefromsiderk3.jpg)
Caligae of a roman soldier

The adolescent Caligula was sent to live first with his great-grandmother, and Tiberius's mother, Livia, in 27, possibly as a hostage. Following Livia's falling-out with Tiberius and her death two years later, he was returned to his Julian relatives and remanded to his grandmother Antonia. During this period Caligula had little outside contact, and his sole companions were his three sisters, Agrippina the Younger, Drusilla, and Julia Livilla. Later, Caligula's accusers would focus on this close relationship, accusing the Emperor of having engaged in incest with all three, but especially Drusilla. Suetonius in particular writes a great deal about these supposed acts.

In 31, Caligula was remanded to the personal care of Tiberius on Capri until the death of Tiberius and the ascension of Caligula in 37. By this time, Caligula was already in favor with Tiberius. Suetonius writes of extreme perversions happening on Capri, as Tiberius was without the people who managed to keep him in line (Augustus, Livia, his brother Drusus, and his best friend Nerva), so he felt free to indulge in any perversion he desired. Whether this is true or not is hard to say. Unpopular Emperors such as Tiberius and Caligula may not have had the whole truth written about them, and gossip is common throughout ancient texts.

From a very early age Caligula learned to tread very carefully. According to both Tacitus and Suetonius, he surpassed his brothers in intelligence, and was an excellent natural actor, realizing the danger when other members of his family could not. Caligula survived when most of the other potential candidates to the throne were destroyed. His mother Agrippina was banished to the tiny island of Pandataria, where she starved herself to death. His two oldest brothers, Nero and Drusus, also died. Nero was banished to the island of Ponza, while Drusus' body was found locked in a dungeon with stuffing from his mattress in his mouth to keep off the hunger pangs.

Suetonius writes of Caligula's servile nature towards Tiberius, and his indifferent nature towards his dead mother and brothers. By his own account, Caligula mentioned years later that this servility was a sham in order to stay alive, and on more than one occasion he very nearly killed Tiberius when his anger overwhelmed him. An observer said of Caligula: "Never was there a better servant or a worse master!" Caligula proved to have a flair for administration and won further favor with the ailing Tiberius by carrying out many of his duties for him. At night, Caligula would inflict torture on slaves and watch bloody gladiatorial games with glee. In 33, Tiberius gave Caligula the position of honorary quaestorship, the only form of public service Caligula would hold until his reign.

During his short reign, Mauretania was annexed and reorganized into two provinces, Herod Agrippa was appointed to a kingdom in Judaea, and severe riots took place in Alexandria between Jews and Greeks. Though certainly of note, these events are largely ignored by the surviving sources, all of whom unanimously focus on the Emperor as a mentally unstable, homicidal and depraved madman.

Examples of his insanity focus on a handful of episodes in his life, notably Caligula's military activities on the northern frontier, and his religious policy. His northern campaigns are derided, with accounts of Gauls dressed up as Germans at his triumph, and Roman troops ordered to collect sea-shells as "spoils of the sea" and indicative of his victory against Neptune. Numerous theories and suggestions have been put forth to attempt to explain these actions as anything other than those of a mad-man, the most reasonable suggestion being that Caligula went north to invade Britain and win where even Julius Caesar had been forced to retreat. His troops seem to have had a different campaign in mind, and upon arriving at the shores of the English Channel, the troops refused to go further, hence Caligula ordered them to collect sea-shells as their reward for the "campaign" that they refused to embark upon. Once again, however, due to the lack of sources, what precisely occurred and why is a matter of debate even among the primary sources for Caligula's reign.

Outlandish stories cluster about the raving emperor, illustrating his excessive cruelty, multiple and peculiar sexual escapades (both heterosexual and homosexual) or disrespect toward tradition and the Senate. Sources describe his incestuous relationships with all three of his sisters, his disembowelment of his favorite sister in order to get to the child he impregnated her with resulting in her death, his subsequent declaring her to be a goddess, his selling to the highest bidder of the wives of high ranking Senate members during sexual orgies, his laughable military campaigns in the north, the plan to make his horse Incitatus a consul, and his habit of roaming the halls of his palace at night ordering the sun to rise. He also named his horse as a priest, and gave it a house to reside in, complete with a marble stable, golden manger, and jewel necklaces; and he later talked of making his horse a member of the Senate. He opened a brothel in his palace and had a habit of taking Senate members' wives with him to his private bedroom during social functions, while the husbands could merely look on as they left together, then he would recount the sexual acts he performed with the wives for all to hear, including her husband.

He comes across as aloof, arrogant, egotistical, and is generally portrayed as insane. He is said to have cried "I wish the Roman people had but a single neck" when an arena crowd applauded a faction he opposed. It is also said that when there were not enough convicts to fight lions & tigers in arena, he threw in some spectators. Suetonius wrote that he often uttered "Let them hate me, so long as they fear me", and described this as a familiar line of the tragic poet (Accius); however, Suetonius also attributes the utterance of this line to Tiberius.

What is documented is that he declared himself a living god, and even had a bridge constructed between his palace and Jupiter's Temple. He is also said to have made it a crime to look down on him from above, and not to leave him everything in a will. To the Roman people, this was considered nothing less than blasphemy. Caligula was also incredibly self-indulgent, dramatic proof of which has been found with the discovery of two sunken ships at the bottom of Lake Nemi. These two ships were by far the largest vessels in the ancient world; in fact their size was not even rivaled until after the Renaissance. The smaller of the ships was designed as a temple dedicated to Diana (the Roman equivalent of Artemis). The larger ship was essentially an elaborate floating palace that counted marble floors and plumbing among its amenities, the sole role of which was to satisfy Caligula's increasingly hedonistic behavior.
Title: "Caligula"
Post by: buddyboy on October 12, 2006, 11:01:54 PM
(http://www.penthouse.com/exclusives/caligula/scenes/j01.jpg)
Caligula's wife and sister Drusilla display their passion for each other.

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Tiberius Caesar teaches young Caligula that power and pleasure are much more important than love, and those who fear you are the only ones you can control.

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"I am all men, as I am no man. And so ... I am a GOD!"

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That which Caligula controlled ultimately controlled him.

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"I shall now bestow the blessings of almighty Caesar upon this happy union," as he takes a virgin bride for himself.

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Caligula chooses Caesonia, the most promiscuous woman in Rome, as his bride.

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Caligula and his friend's new bride on the "sacred marriage bed" ... the kitchen table.

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Explicit Roman orgies were commonplace within the walls of Caligula's palace.

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Caligula is calmed after a thunderstorm sets off his wild paranoia of assassination.

(http://www.penthouse.com/exclusives/caligula/scenes/j11.jpg)
See the most erotic lesbian sex scene ever caught on film.

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From the beautiful naked bodies engaged in sexual freedom to the torturous whippings and genital mangling, Roman orgies displayed the utmost extreme in pleasure and pain.

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Caligula (MALCOLM McDOWELL) is summoned to Capri by Tiberius (PETER O'TOOLE), his adopted grandfather. His escort is Macro (GUIDO MANNARI), commander of the Praetorian Guard. Macro seeks to curry favor with Caligula, who will be the next Emperor, by tempting him with the promise of sleeping with Ennia (ADRIANA ASTI), his wife. Frightened, but sycophantically eager to fall in with any mood of the mercurial Tiberius, Caligula has his first glimpse of absolute power as the aged Emperor leads him from his cavernous swimming pool through his grotto of pleasures. There, the two become voyeurs as youths and maidens act out Tiberius' fantasies.

Accompanying them is a noble, elderly Senator, Nerva (JOHN GIELGUD), the only contemporary intimate of Tiberius who has survived the execution of several Senators, despite the fact, or perhaps because, he is the only one who dares openly to criticize and condemn. When Nerva chooses suicide over a natural death, Tiberius' seemingly ordered life is shaken, and his own death, hastened. Caligula and Macro come to witness the end. They find the old Emperor partially paralyzed, lying alone in the state bedroom. Prematurely, Caligula tears off the signet ring, symbol of power. Tiberius rallies. Macro insures has death by smothering him. A frightened Gemellus (BRUNO BRIVE), Tiberius' grandson by birth, has witnessed the murder.

Caligula, the new Emperor, gains instant popularity by announcing a general amnesty. He accepts the highest office of the Republic, the Consulship, naming his uncle Claudius (GIANCARLO BADESSI), his fellow Consul and Gemellus as his son and heir. For a time, Caligula is splendidly good-humored, eager to be loved by the people. There is scarcely a hint of the tyrant he will become. One of his first questionable acts is to rid himself of Macro. By promising the Guards a huge pay bonus, he orders them to arrest their commander. Macro is replaced by Chaerea (PAOLO BONACELLI). Caligula is free to marry Ennia, now a widow, but Drusilla (TERESA ANN SAVOY), his sister and paramour, counsels him to marry a respectable Roman and father an heir.

Disguised as a woman, Caligula comes to choose a candidate from among the shapely priestesses in the Temple of Isis. He is attracted -- despite Drusilla's protests that she is promiscuous -- to Caesonia (HELEN MIRREN), an eloquent, sensual divorcee, who becomes his mistress, then wife. The darker side of Caligula begins to show itself as he comes to realize that no one will challenge his absolute power. His terror during a thunder and lightning storm is the first sign of a breakdown. His actions become more and more senseless. His only confidant is his Arab stallion, Incitatus, which he rides into the banquet where Gemellus is one of the guests. In a macabre mood, he accuses Gemellus publicly of treason and has him arrested.

As Caesonia's child is being born, Caligula marries her and names the babe his heir. He is enraged to learn the child is a girl and insists on calling her "my son." Drusilla's death soon afterwards leaves Caligula in despair. He proclaims a month of mourning and, distraught, mingles anonymously with his Roman citizens. When Caligula is dragged drunk and dirty into a prison, his signet ring is spotted by a giant (OSIRIDE PEVARELLO) and his true identity becomes known. Back in the Senate, Caligula proclaims himself a god and awards free games and food to every citizen. When Longinus (JOHN STEINER), his treasurer, protests, Caligula shows him how easy it is to replenish the Imperial purse.

He builds a ship in the palace that is to be used as a brothel. Forcing the wives and daughters of his Senators into prostitution, Caligula himself collects the fees from citizens eager to sample their betters. His final public act of madness is to proclaim his horse Incitatus a Senator. Destiny catches up with Caligula at the age of 29, after a rule of three years, ten months and eight days. Chaerea, Longinus and the Imperial physician Charicles (LEOPOLDO TRIESTE) have quietly organized his assassination. It is a vengeful Chaerea whose sword brings down the Emperor. To insure that none of Caligula's line will follow him to power, Caesonia and Julia, her child, are also put to the sword. A new era in Rome will begin with the new Emperor -- the unwilling, dull-witted Claudius.
Title: Pederasty as an Institution, in Ancient Greece
Post by: mint on October 14, 2006, 03:52:26 AM
Yes.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Amphora_-seduction_scene-_for_Wiki.jpg/250px-Amphora_-seduction_scene-_for_Wiki.jpg)
The bearded man is depicted in a traditional pederastic courtship gesture, one hand reaching to fondle the young man, the other grasping his chin so as to look him in the eye. The youth is putting up symbolic resistance only.

Greek pederasty, as idealized by the Greeks from Archaic times onward, was a relationship and bond between an adolescent boy and an adult man outside of his immediate family, and was constructed as an aristocratic moral and educational institution. As such, it was seen by the Greeks as an essential element in their culture from the time of Homer onwards. The term derives from the combination of pais (Greek for 'boy') with erastēs (Greek for 'lover'; cf. eros). In a wider sense it referred to erotic love between adolescents and adult men. The Greeks considered it normal for any man to be drawn to the beauty of a boy - just as much if not more than to that of a woman. What they disagreed upon was whether and how to express that desire. Pederasty is closely associated with the customs of athletic and artistic nudity in the gymnasia, delayed marriage for gentlemen, symposia and seclusion of women. It is also integral to Greek military training, and an important factor in the deployment of troops.

The ancient Greeks of the pederastic city-states were the first to describe, study, systematize, and establish pederasty as an institution. The origin of that tradition has been variously explained. One school of thought, articulated by Bernard Sergent, holds that the Greek pederastic model evolved from far older Indo-European rites of passage, which were grounded in a shamanic tradition with roots in the neolithic. Another explanation, articulated by Anglophone scholars such as William Percy, holds that pederasty was formalized in ancient Crete around 630 B.C. as a means of population control, together with delayed age of marriage for men of 30 years.

The Spartans however were said to practice chaste pederasty.[4] Where allowed, a free man was usually entitled to fall in love with a boy, proclaim it publicly, and court him as long as the boy in question manifested the traits prerequisite to a pederastic relationship: he had to be kalos (καλός), "handsome" and agathos ((καλός), good, brave, just, and modest. The boy was expected to be circumspect and not let himself be easily won. Generally, the role of the lover had many of the characteristics of that of legal guardian, similar to the role of male relatives of the boy.

Socrates, Plato, Aeschines Socraticus, and Xenophon described the inspirational powers of love between men though decrying its physical expression. Upon the death of Plato the presidency of the Academy passed from lover to lover. Of the Stoics, Chrysippus, Cleanthes, and Zeno fell in love with young men. Socrates, as represented in Plato's writings, appears to have favored chaste pederastic relationships, marked by a balance between desire and self-control or so we are told. By setting aside the sexual consummation of the relationship, Socrates essentialized the friendship and love between the partners. He pointedly criticized purely physical infatuations, for example by mocking Critias' lust for Euthydemus by comparing his behavior towards the boy to that of a "a piglet scratching itself against a rock". That, however, did not prevent him from frequenting the boy brothels, from which he bought and freed his future friend and student, Phaedo, nor from describing his erotic intoxication upon glimpsing the beautiful Charmides' naked body beneath his open tunic. Socrates' love of Alcibiades, which was more than reciprocated, is held as an example of chaste pederasty. Plutarch and Xenophon, in their descriptions of Spartan pederasty, state that even though it is the beautiful boys who are sought above all others (contrary to the Cretan traditions), nevertheless the pederastic couple remains chaste.

Male relationships were represented in complex ways, some honorable and others dishonorable. But for the vast majority of ancient historians for a man to have not had a youth for a lover presented a deficiency in character. Plato, in his early works (the Symposium or in Phaedrus), does not question the principles of pederasty and states, referring to same-sex relationships:

Quote
For I know not any greater blessing to a young man who is beginning in life than a virtuous lover, or to a lover than a beloved youth. For the principle, I say, neither kindred, nor honor, nor wealth, nor any motive is able to implant so well as love. Of what am I speaking? Of the sense of honor and dishonor, without which neither states nor individuals ever do any good or great work… And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonor and emulating one another in honor; and it is scarcely an exaggeration to say that when fighting at each other’s side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world.

Dr. Alfred W. McCoy has claimed that the CIA secretly collaborated with Asian drug syndicates and was complicit in the expansion of the global heroin trade from 1970 to 1973 in order to prosecute the Cold War. While the Vietnam War brought modern transportation to remote opium areas, McCoy himself does not claim that the CIA set up the drug labs in Southeast Asia or created the trade. Heroin is one of the most profitable illicit drugs since it is compact and easily concealed. At present, opium poppies are mostly grown in the Middle East, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, and in Asia, especially in the region known as the Golden Triangle straddling Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos and Yunnan province in China. There is also cultivation of opium poppies in the Sinaloa region of Mexico and in Colombia. The majority of the heroin consumed in the United States comes from Mexico and Colombia. Up until 2004, Pakistan was considered one of the biggest opium-growing countries. However, the efforts of Pakistan's Anti-Narcotics Force have since reduced the opium growing area by 59% as of 2001[citation needed]. Some suggest that the decline in Pakistani production is inversely proportional to the rise of Afghani production, and that rather than anti-narcotics activity, the decline in Pakistan is due more to changed market forces.

Social aspects

The erastes-eromenos relationship was fundamental to the Classical Greek social and educational system, had its own complex social-sexual etiquette and was an important social institution among the upper class. Pederastic relationships were dyadic mentorships. These mentorships were sanctioned by the state, as evidenced by laws mandating and controlling such relationships. Likewise, they were consecrated by the religious establishment, as can be seen from the many myths describing such relationships between gods and heroes (Apollo and Hyacinth, Zeus and Ganymede, Heracles and Hylas, Pan and Daphnis) and between one hero and another (Achilles and Patroclus, Orestes and Pylades). It is interesting to note that the Greeks tried to project a semblance of pederasty (read: propriety) onto these last two pairs, despite a great deal of evidence that the two myths were originally intended to symbolize egalitarian relationships. In general, the pederasty described in the Greek literary sources is clearly an aristocratic institution.
Title: Wiki's :)
Post by: mint on October 14, 2006, 04:24:29 AM
Boys entered into such relationships in their teens, around the same age that Greek girls were given in marriage -- also to adult husbands many years their senior. There was a difference between the two types of bonding: Boys usually had to be courted and were free to choose their mate. Girls, on the other hand, were used for economic and political advantage, their marriages contracted at the discretion of the father and the suitor. The function of the relationship seems to have been the introduction of the young man into adult society and adult responsibilites. To that end the mentor was expected to teach the young man or to see to his education, and to give him certain appropriate ceremonial gifts (in Crete, an ox, a suit of armor, and a chalice. The bond between the two participants seems to have been based in part on mutual love and desire -- usually sexually expressed -- and in part on the political interests of the two families. A great deal of importance was placed on the friendship between the two, as shown by a contemporary proverb, "A lover is the best friend a boy will ever have." The relationships were open and public, and became part of the biography of the person. Thus when Spartan historians wrote about a personage they would usually indicate whom it was that he had heard or whom it was that he inspired.

For the youth -- and his family - one important advantage of being mentored by an influential older man was the social networking aspect. Thus some considered it desirable to have had many older lovers / mentors in one's younger years, both attesting to one's physical beauty and paving the way for attaining important positions in society. Typically, after their sexual relationship had ended and the young man had married, the older man and his protégé would remain on close terms throughout their life. For those lovers who continued their lovemaking after their beloveds had matured, the Greeks made allowances, saying, "You can lift up a bull, if you carried the calf." Pederasty was the idealized form of an age-structured homoeroticism that, like all social institutions, had other, less idyllic, manifestations, such as prostitution or the use of one's slave boys. However, certain forms were prohibited, such as slaves penetrating freemen, or paying free boys or young men for sex. Free youths who did sell their favors were generally ridiculed and later in life were prohibited from performing certain official functions.

A prosecution by an Athenian politician, Aeschines, in 346 B.C.E., Against Timarchus, is an example of how these regulations were used to political advantage. In his speech, Aeschines argues against further allowing Timarchus, an experienced middle-aged politician, his political rights, on account of his having spent his adolescence as the kept boy of a series of wealthy men. Aeschines won his case, and Timarchus was sentenced to atimia. But Aeschines is careful to acknowledge what seemingly all Athens knows: his own dalliances with beautiful boys, the erotic poems he dedicated to these youths, and the scrapes he has gotten into as a result of his affairs, none of which -- he hastens to point out -- were mediated by money. Even when lawful, it was not uncommon for the relationship to fail, as it was said of many boys that they "hated no one as much as the man who had been their lover". Likewise, the Cretans required the boy to declare whether the relationship had been to his liking, thus giving him an opportunity to break it off if any violence had been done to him.

Synergy with sports

The institution of pederasty was inseparable from that of organized sports. The main venue for men and boys to meet and spend time together, and for the men to educate the boys in the arts of warfare, sports, and philosophy was the gymnasium, which was preeminently the training ground for these disciplines, and one of the principal venues for pederastic relationships. In particular, the practice of exercising nude was held to be of the utmost importance in the cult of beauty and eros which permeated pederastic societies. "The cities which have most to do with gymnastics", is the phrase which Plato uses to describe the states where Greek love flourished. "Gymnastics" in this instance conveys not only the sense of athletic discipline but also, from the Greek gymnos, "nude", the fact that all these exercises were taken by men and boys who were naked, and thus especially liable to be excited by physical beauty. The beauty and erotic power of the naked body was highlighted by the custom of oiling one's body for exercise. The provision of oil for such decoration was the greatest expense of a gymnasium, and had to be heavily subsidized by the public coffers or private donors. The practice itself varied over time: in the early days it was said that modesty prevented the boys from drawing attention to their sexuality by oiling themselves below the waist. Such restraint was presumably cast by the wayside by Plato's time. The relationship between a trainer and his athletes often had an erotic dimension, and the same place which served as training ground served equally for erotic dalliances, as can be seen from the many scenes of seduction and lovemaking depicting implements found at palaestras, such as sponges and strigils.

Educational and military aspects
 
Athens Ancient writers, as well as modern historians such as Bruce Thornton, hold that the goal of paiderastia was pedagogical, the channeling of Eros into the creation of noble and good citizens. The various mythographical materials available suggest religious training as well as military training hor so we are told. In talking about the Cretan rite, the historian Ephorus informs us that the man (known as philetor, befriender) took the boy (known as kleinos, "glorious") into the wilderness, where they spent several months hunting and feasting with their friends. If the boy was satisfied with the conduct of his would-be comrade, he changed his title from kleinos to parastates (comrade and bystander in the ranks of battle and life), returned to the philetor and lived in close bonds of public intimacy with him. Ephorus' account does not discuss the educational aspects of the sojourn. However, this is clearly a coming-of-age rite culminating in a major ceremony upon the return of the pair from the mountains, and a process of acculturation into male society is implied.

Military function

Military training is inseparable from the other educational aspects of pederasty since the times of the Ancient Greeks were marked by continuous warfare, both internal and external. Martial prowess was held in the highest esteem, and one of the principal functions of pederastic relationships was the cultivation of bravery and fighting skills. Ancient sources suggest a range of sexual activity. Cicero, describing Spartan customs, suggests that relations were expected to stop short of consummation,

Quote
"The Lacedaemonians, while they permit all things except outrage [hybris] in the love of youths, certainly distinguish the forbidden by a thin wall of partition from the sanctioned, for they allow embraces and a common couch to lovers."

On the other hand, one Athenian term for sodomy was "to do it the Lacedemonian way." Literary sources are a lot more risqué, especially ancient comedy. For example, Aristophanes, in "Peace," his parody of Ganymede riding on the back of Zeus in eagle form, has his character ride to Olympus on the back of a dung beetle, a scatological pun on anal sex. Some modern historians, such as Thornton, conclude that whether the relationship was consummated or not probably depended on the partners. The majority of ceramic paintings depict the older partner importuning the younger, in a variation of the Greek gesture for pleading. Normally the supplicant embraced the knees of the person whose favor he sought, while grasping the man's chin so as to look into his eyes. Pederastic art usually shows the man standing, grasping the boy's chin with one hand and reaching to fondle his genitals with the other. The boys are shown in varying degrees of rejecting or accepting the man's attentions. Less frequently, intercrural intercourse is depicted, where the erastes is shown inserting his penis between the thighs of the younger one. Only very rarely is anal sex suggested or shown, though there are literary and epigraphic indications suggesting it was more common.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mint on October 14, 2006, 04:31:46 AM
All this was claimed to be endured by the youth without physical excitement. K.J.Dover states that the eromenos was not "supposed" to feel desire for the erastes, as that would be unmanly. More recent evidence suggests that in actual practice (as opposed to theory) there was, in fact, reciprocation of desire. As Thomas Hubbard points out in a critique of David Halperin's contention that boys were not aroused, some vases do show boys as being sexually responsive, and "Fondling a boy's organ was one of the most commonly represented courtship gestures on the vases. What can the point of this act have been unless lovers in fact derived some pleasure from feeling and watching the boy's developing organ wake up and respond to their manual stimulation?"

The theme of mutuality of desire was a topic of discussion in ancient times as well. While the passive role was seen as problematic, to be attracted to men was often taken as a sign of masculinity, and it was thought that the boys who most sought the company and affections of men were the most likely to be successful in life.

Political aspects

The state benefitted from these relationships, according to the statements of ancient writers. The friendship functioned as a restraint on the youth, since if he committed a crime it was not he but his lover who was punished. In the military the lovers fought side by side, with each vying to shine before the other. Thus, it was said that an army of lovers would be invincible, as was the case until the battle of Chaeronea with the Theban Sacred Band, a battalion of 150 warriors, each aided by his beloved charioteer. Pederastic couples were also said to be feared by tyrants, because the bond between the friends was stronger than that of obedience to a tyrannical ruler. Athenaeus states that

Quote
"Hieronymus the Aristotelian says that love with boys was fashionable because several tyrannies had been overturned by young men in their prime, joined together as comrades in mutual sympathy."


He gives as examples of such pederastic couples the Athenians Harmodius and Aristogeiton, who were credited (perhaps symbolically) with the overthrow of the tyrant Hippias and the establishment of the democracy, and also Chariton and Melanippus. Others, such as Aristotle, claimed that some states encouraged pederasty as a means of population control, by directing love and sexual desire into non-procreative channels, a feature of pederasty also employed by other cultures. Political leaders Solon, Peisistratus, Hippias, Hipparchus, Themistocles, Aristides, Critias, Demosthenes, and Aeschines of Athens; Pausanias, Lysander, and Agesilaus of Sparta; Polycrates of Samos; Hieron and Agathocles of Syracuse; Epaminondas and Pelopidas of Thebes; and Archelaus, Philip II, and Alexander of Macedon were recorded to have had same-sex relationships.

Regional characteristics

Athens
The founder of the pederastic tradition in Athens is said to be the lawgiver Solon, who also composed poetry praising the love of boys. In Athens, the lover was known as the erastes, and his young partner as the eromenos or paidika. Athenian high society generally encouraged the erastes to pursue a boy to love. At the same time, the boy and his family were expected to put up resistance and not give in too easily hor so we are told. Pederastic affairs were the butt of jokes for the commoners. Athenian philosophers, around the end of the 5th century, prompted by a discomfort with the lack of self-restraint and crude sexuality of some pederastic relationships elaborated a philosophy of pederasty that valorized chaste pederastic relations.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mint on October 14, 2006, 04:48:55 AM
That said, among gay writers and activists today there is a troubling tendency to idealize Hellenic Greece, a society which was heavily influenced, if not dominated, by a male homosexual elite. They've authored a glowing account about the "gay king" Alexander and has described Hellenic Greece as "the most gay-friendly society in history." This requires critical scrutiny from scholars and ethicists who do not share the pro-gay bias.

An adequate understanding of the ancient Greece, a society based upon misogyny, militarism, imperialism, and slavery. A homosexual male elite enjoyed a privileged position in ancient Greece, but its members by no means conformed to the common stereotype of effeminacy. On the contrary, they were especially effective in the use of violence, and were consequently the best soldiers. Enjoying high status in a militaristic society, they were able to institutionalize the practice of pederasty (man-to-boy sex) and have their way with boys as young as 12. William Armstrong Percy, a gay history professor at the University of Massachusetts has this to say:

Quote
Pederasty was from the beginning both physical and emotional, the highest and most intense type of male bonding. These pederastic bonds, Percy believes, were responsible for the rise of Hellas and the 'Greek miracle': in 2 centuries the population of Attica, a mere 45,000 adult males in 6 generations, produced an astounding number of great men who laid the enduring foundations of Western thought and civilization.


Percy would have us believe that all the wonders of civilization are owed to the fact that Greek homosexuals were allowed to exploit children sexually. Further, in "The Gay and Lesbian Review Worldwide" he writes that

Quote
"for the Greeks a sexual relationship between an adolescent male and an adult male could under the proper circumstances involve the youth in a loving and supportive union."


He admits that the "adolescent" males might have been as young as 12. That such trash could come from a history professor at a prestigious university is nothing less than appalling.

A More Realistic View

In a commentary published by The Boston Globe, Richard Hoffman discusses the lawsuit brought against the NAMBLA, a gay pedophile group, by the parents of Jeffrey Curley. In 1997, at age 10, Curley had been murdered by 2 child molesters alleged to have been influenced by NAMBLA literature. Describing NAMBLA's propaganda tactics, he writes:
 
Quote
Be prepared for much talk about "the glory that was Greece," but do not expect to hear the truth that the consorts of these ancestral "boy-lovers" were slave children, or that their masters were the elite of a phallic hierarchy as misogynist as any that has ever existed. Like propagandists everywhere, NAMBLA plunders the past for anything it can use to forge a ratifying myth. The NAMBLA version of classical Greece is an ideologically driven infomercial.


More Gay Praise for Ancient Greece

Within contemporary gay culture there are other writers and activists who celebrate ancient Greece. Michael Hattersley's article, published in The Harvard Gay & Lesbian Review offers generous praise to Alexander the Great. Imposing Greek culture everywhere he went, in terms of the amount of land conquered Alexander was the most successful imperialist the world had ever known at that time. "Alexander," he writes, was "the greatest of gay heroes." His rule, says Hattersley, resulted in the most "gay-friendly society in human history." Hattersley believes that Alexander was kind to those he conquered, because he always "implanted much higher standards of culture." Indeed, in deference to these "high standards," the gentle imperialist Alexander captured and destroyed Thebes and sold its inhabitants into slavery. Hattersley writes that Alexander's mentor, Aristotle, "believed that Greeks had nothing to learn from other cultures."

Alexander the Child Molester

Gay writer Paul Russell, author of "The Gay 100," provides additional interesting information about Alexander, who never lost a battle in 11 years of warfare. Alexander also had a sexual relationship with a boy, Bagoas, who was apparently a slave. Russell, seemingly wishing to avoid explicit reference to this sordid state of affairs, writes that Alexander "acquired" the boy from the defeated Persian Darius. It is interesting to observe how these gay writers express such deep admiration for pederasts, imperialists, and military conquerors, while simultaneously affirming the contempt which masculine homosexual males display for effeminacy. Concluding his chapter on Alexander, Russell writes:

Quote
"Alexander has been ... one of those beacons by which gay people have been able to locate themselves in the world. Furthermore, his example has always offered a persuasive rebuttal to the stereotyped equation of male homosexuality and effeminacy ... a fighting man who loved men.


The Gay Emperors of Rome

Hattersley also offers praise for 3 homosexual Roman emperors of the 2d century AD: Trajan, Hadrian, and Antoninus. He writes that their time was "the greatest and most humane period of ancient Rome" and that they "emulated Alexander and Hellenism in their philosophy and governance." Overlooked by Hattersley in his joyful assessment is the fact that one of the most brutal entertainment forms ever known to humanity, gladiatorial combat, was thriving in Rome at the time these gay emperors were enjoying their rule. The contests did not only involve men killing each other but also killing animals or being killed by them. Many of the gladiators were slaves or prisoners of war. The Coliseum became the arena for gladiator combat, and its construction was completed eighteen years before Trajan assumed the throne in 98 A.D. Trajan experienced stimulation from blood, violence, death, tormented animals, and male muscularity -- all of which were on display for his pleasure during gladiator events. Trajan's perverse passion appears to have arisen from a mix of voyeurism and bestiality inflamed by the torch of homoerotic sadism. Information available at the Bates College website suggests that his appetite for sordid forms of excitement was infinite and that cruelty to animals ignited a special source of arousal for him:

The slaughter of wildlife in these contests were astonishing. Hundreds in a day was routine. At the games held by Trajan when he became Emperor, 9,000 were killed. Today we are appalled by the scale of wanton destruction. Researchers for the Getty museum also suggest that modern Americans would be troubled by the violence of Roman entertainment during the days of Trajan, who sponsored gladiator contests and animal fights to celebrate his military victories. Another deplorable event taking place under the rule of the "humane" Trajan was the execution of St. Ignatius by having him thrown to the lions.

An Unflattering View of Hadrian

Russell provides information by which we can assess the "humane" deeds of the homosexual emperor Hadrian, who followed Trajan. Hadrian came to power in the midst of suspicion that he had murdered Trajan, who died only 2 days after adopting Hadrian and thus making him heir to the throne. Hadrian had 4 Roman Senators killed in order to silence these accusations. Also noteworthy is the fact that he crushed a Jewish revolt in Palestine in 135 AD. Following the example of the "gay-friendly" Hellenic Greeks, Hadrian was also a child molester. Of course, gay author Russell does not describe him that way, but does inform us that Hadrian had a sexual relationship with a boy named Antinous, who was only 13 when it was initiated. After Antinous mysteriously drowned in the Nile, speculation emerged that his death was a suicide undertaken as an escape from the clutches of the "humane" Hadrian. Russell, who is an English professor at Vassar, finds no reason to condemn Hadrian for his sexual use of a boy. On the contrary, he describes Hadrian and Antinous as "one of the greatest pairs of lovers in the history of the world."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mint on October 14, 2006, 04:55:16 AM
The Abominable Crimes of Nero

Another gay Roman emperor was the infamous Nero, who assured his ascension to the throne by having his brother Britannicus murdered in 55 A.D. 4 years later he had his mother murdered as well. Of Nero, Chris Scarre, author of Chronicle of the Roman Emperors, writes:

Quote
Nero divorced his first wife, Octavia, and then had her killed. He married Poppaea, but in a fit of rage while she was pregnant, he kicked her to death. He married a 3d wife, but then he left her for a boy who resembled Poppaea. While it is believed that Nero did not start the great fire that destroyed much of Rome, it did clear the land he needed on which to build his Golden House, a palace of such size, richness, and majesty as had never been seen before. The excesses he showered upon himself, his brutality, and his outrageous behavior finally drove away his last supporters.


Other accounts hold that Nero had been rumored to be the arsonist, and that he initiated extreme cruelties against the early Christians after blaming them for the fire. Interestingly, Russell does not devote a chapter of his book to this unspeakably wicked gay despot. He makes only indirect reference to him by mentioning that, with the exception of Claudius, all of the emperors of the Julio-Claudian period were homosexual. The Roman historian Tacitus writes:

Quote
... in order to abolish that rumor, Nero falsely accused and executed with the most exquisite punishments those people called Christians ...And perishing they were additionally made into sports: they were killed by dogs by having the hides of beasts attached to them, or they were nailed to crosses or set aflame, and, when the daylight passed away, they were used as nighttime lamps ... people began to pity these sufferers, because they were consumed not for the public good but on account of the fierceness of one man.


Included among the other gay emperors were Caligula and the tyrannical Tiberius, who did not trust the Senate and saw to the assassination of dozens of equestrians and Senators. Caligula was known to be insane and was famous for excessive cruelty, incestuous relationships with his sisters, and the plan to make his horse a consul. Caligula also ordered his cousin Gemellus killed in order to avoid having to share the powers of the throne with him.
 
Nero As Beast of the Apocalypse

Friedrich Engels, in his work "On the History of Early Christianity," writes about 1st-century Christians and their beliefs regarding the Beast of the Apocalypse. Described but not explicitly identified in the Book of Revelation, the Beast was expected to be the resurrected spirit of the criminally insane Nero. Engels relied upon interpretations of Revelation by German biblical scholars. As viewed by Engels, Revelation is all about the early Christians' desire for harsh vengeance against Nero for the cruel persecution he initiated against their martyred brothers after the fire swept through Rome. Revelation incorporates metaphors based upon the number 7, because of the 7 hills of Rome. Further, there were 7 first-century Roman emperors. The Beast of 7 Heads was expected to be the resurrected spirit of one of these emperors. Of additional interest in Revelation is God's opening of the 7 seals. Revelation says that the opening of each seal is followed by all sorts of miraculous menacing signs, and "when the 5th seal is opened, John sees under the alter of God the souls of the martyrs of Christ who were slain for the word of God," and who are crying for vengeance. The 5th emperor in the succession beginning with Augustus, the 1st of the 7, was the degenerate madman Nero.

But there's more. Engels points out that, according to the numerological system for letters of the Hebrew alphabet, the phrase Emperor Nero adds up to 666. In Revelation this is the number of the Beast. Further, he says that this association with Nero was commonly known among Christians of the time. In plain terms, they hated Nero and wanted God to unleash his wrath upon him. It is reasonable to suspect that part of their resentment was fueled by the effects of centuries of oppression by the homosexual Graeco-Roman patriarchs who had made a practice of sexually abusing male slaves, boys, and prisoners of war. Engels emphasizes that the early Christians were largely the underdogs of society and included many slaves and emancipated slaves -- the very class of people most vulnerable to sexual exploitation by homosexuals.

St. Augustine the Woman-Hater

Another prominent homosexual character from the days of the Roman Empire was St. Augustine (354-430 AD), described by Russell as "one of the greatest fathers of the Roman Catholic Church, a thinker who changed the course of Western civilization." Russell continues:

Quote
He adumbrated notions of sin, perversion, and the relationship between good and evil that have so permeated our thought ... Augustine condemned most sexual acts, even those performed by married couples. Sex for procreation was, for Augustine, the only moral sexual act -- and even that was distasteful ... More than anyone else, Augustine furthered Christianity's long attempt to suppress any physical expressions of love except those that resulted in children.

Augustine appears to bear a great deal of responsibility for the Catholic Church's long-standing tradition of teaching women to fear and despise their sexuality. Offering more evidence of male homosexual contempt for effeminacy, Russell also described Augustine as "a thorough-going misogynist," who was "particularly disgusted by men who allowed their bodies to be used 'as that of a woman.'" Russell says that Augustine engaged in homosexual affairs when he was young but later felt "disgust" at his younger self.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mint on October 14, 2006, 05:00:55 AM
Rape of Male Slaves by Greek Homosexual Patriarchs

Along with supposedly elevating "standards of culture," Hattersley heaps praise on the imperialist conqueror Alexander for increasing "human freedom and dignity." A good example of these "high standards" which gay writers admire in ancient Greece might be found in the writings of Michel Foucault, who is considered to be an intellectual leader in gay literary circles. Confirming that butch homosexual males in ancient Greece feared being feminized in their sexual relations, he observes that the use of male slaves helped resolve this problem. Even the Greeks had a problem with being the passive partner in a love relationship. For a Greek nobleman to make love to a passive male slave was natural, since the slave was by nature an inferior; but when 2 Greek men of the same social class made love it was a real problem because neither felt he should humble himself before the other.

Today homosexuals still have this problem. Most homosexuals feel that the passive role is in some way demeaning. S & M [sadomasochism] has actually helped alleviate this problem somewhat. Of supreme interest is Foucault's belief that men captured by military conquest were "by nature" inferior and therefore suitable for the "female" role in anal intercourse. He appears to rely on this to justify their enslavement for sexual exploitation by privileged homosexual men in Athenian society. The passage simultaneously betrays the general contempt for womanhood among homosexual men along with Foucault's own tolerance of slavery and rape. The idea of sadomasochism is nothing more than academic window-dressing used in a shallow attempt to dignify the gays' inner craving for violence and domination. Of Foucault, Russell writes:

Quote
"Limit experiences," like sadomasochism particularly interested him. On that subject, he said, "I don't think that this movement of sexual practices has anything to do with the disclosure of the uncovering of S/M tendencies deep within our unconscious. I think that S/M is much more than that; it's the real creation of new possibilities of pleasure ..."


The Homosexist Patriarchy

Returning to the myth of Ganymede, Mia Gibson writes that, according to Apollodorus, "this myth emphasized the victory of patriarchy over matriarchy." She continues:

Quote
This [myth] showed that men did not need women to exist, therefore they did not need the attentions of women. The philosopher Plato used this myth to justify his sexual feelings towards his all male pupils.


Plato also was the author of The Symposium a dialogue among six Greek males praising the God Eros. Yves Bonnefoy writes:

Quote
The sexual relationship to which all of the participants [in The Symposium] without exception gave the highest value is uncontestedly the sexual relation between masculine partners. . . .Sexual relations between male and female partners come second, in that this type of relationship, beyond allowing for sexual satisfaction, assures the procreation of children. Finally, in last place is the relationship between female partners ..."


While the male homosexual elite maintained its grip on Greek society, women were excluded from public life and were considered of little value for anything other than sexual satisfaction and breeding. Feminists and lesbians who believe that gay males are their allies in the struggle against "heterosexist patriarchy" are encouraged to rethink their position. Their real enemy might very well be the kind of homosexist patriarchy which enjoyed a high degree of political power in "gay-friendly" ancient Greece. According to gay writer Felice Picano, some feminists are aware of the dangers of allowing a gay male elite to establish hegemeny over the rest of society. While accusing them of spreading fear about the "so-called 'gay clone agenda,' " he gives an adequate summary of their viewpoint:

Quote
"I recall a private conversation in which feminists outlined to me their notion of what an ideal "gay male world" would be like. In this scenario, women have even less respect and less power than in our current misogynistic set-up, because aside from a few women allowed in as decoration, women would simply have no raison d'être except as breeding machines."


Homosexuality and the Judaeo-Christian Tradition

Homosexual male elites routinely abused boys and male slaves when the ancient world was being dominated by Greeks and Romans. The search for relief from this oppression may have been a big factor in the eventual establishment of the Judaeo-Christian ethic, with its condemnation of homosexuality. This hypothesis is tacitly suggested in a 1933 article in The Nation by Ludwig Lewisohn, who observed that the Nazi movement was "in fact and by certain aspects of its avowed ideology drenched through and through with homo-erotic feeling and practice." He also wrote that the Nazis identified with the ancient Greeks and were "well-purged of Judaeo-Christian inhibitions" while "returning to the noble practices of their Greek ancestors," although encumbered by "an obscure feeling of guilt inherited from 1,500 years of apparent submission to the Judaeo-Christian ethic."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: b e t s y on October 14, 2006, 06:07:01 PM
Without praising the below-mentioned, while deploring the Judaeo-Christian reaction to the atrocity and madness of the Graeco-Roman homosexist patriarchy, I'm posting a list of homosexual/bisexual rulers and when they ruled

1.  King Alexander the Great of Macedonia, 336-323 BC
2.  King Demetrius Poliorcetes of Macedonia, 294-288 BC
3.  King Antiochus I of Macedonia, 280-261 BC
4.  King Antigonus II Gonatas of Macedonia, 276-239 BC
5.  King Ptolemy VII of Egypt, 221-205 BC
6.  Emperor Gaozu of China, 206-194 BC
7.  King Ptolemy IV of Egype, 145-244 BC
8.  Emperor Wu of China, 140-86 BC
9.  King Nicomedes IV of Bithynia, early 1st century BC
10. Julius Cesar, counsul of Rome, 60-44 BC
11. Emperior Augustus of Rome, 31 BC to AD 14
12. Emperior Ai of China, 6 BC to AD 1
13. Emperior Tiberius of Rome, 14-37
14. Emperior Caligula of Rome, 37-41
15. Emperior Claudius I of Rome, 41-54
16. Emperior Nero of Rome, 54-68
17. Emperior Otho of Rome, January-April 69
18. Emperior Domitian of Rome, 81-96
19. Emperior Nerva of Rome, 96-98
20. Emperior Trajan of Rome, 98-117
21. Emperior Hadrian of Rome, 117-138
22. Emperior Commodus of Rome, 180-192
23. Emperior Heliogabalus of Rome, 218-222
24. Emperior Wei Wen of China, 220-227
25. Emperior Jin Diyi of China, 336-371
26. Emperior Valentian III of Rome, 425-455
27. Emperior Lian Jianwen of China, 550-551
28. Emperior Michael II of the Byzantine Empire, 741-775
29. Al-Hakem II, ruler of C¢rdoba (Spain), 961-976
30. Hisham II, ruler of C¢rdoba (Spain), 965-1013
31. Emperor Basil II of the Byzantine Empire, 976-1025
32. Sebktigin, founder of the Ghaznavid Empire (Afghanistan), 10th century
33. Emperor Mahmud of Ghazni (Afghanistan), 997-1030
34. Emperor Constantine VIII of the Byzantine Empire, 1025-1028
35. Emperor Constantine IX of the Byzantine Empire, 1042-1055
36. Al-Mutamid, ruler of Seville (Spain), 1069-1090
37. King William II of England, 1087-1100
38. King Richard I (The Lion-Hearted) of England, 1198-1199
39. Holy Roman Emperor Fredrick II, 1212-1250
40. King Edward II of England, 1307-1327
41. Ashikaga Yoshimitsu, shogun of Japan, 1368-1394
42. Sultan Beyazid I of the Ottoman Empire, 1389-1402
43. King Juan II of Castile and Le¢n (Spain), 1406-1454
44. King Enrique IV of Castile (Spain), 1454-1474
45. Sultan Mehmed (Muhammad) II of the Ottoman Empire, 1451-1481
46. King Charles IX of France, 1560-1574
47. Oda Nobunaga, military dictator of Japan, 1568-1582
48. King Henri III of France, 1574-1589
49. Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II of Germany, 1576-1612; king of Bohemia (Czechoslavakia), 1575-1611; king of Hungary, 1572-1608
50. King James I of England, 1603-1625; king of Scotland (as James IV), 1567-1625
51. Emperor Jahangir of India, 1605-1627
52. King Louis XIII of France, 1610-1643
53. Tokugawa Iemitsu, shogun of Japan, 1622-1651
54. Queen Christina of Sweden, 1632-1654
55. Tokugawa Tsunayoshi, shogun of Japan, 1680-1709
56. King William III of England, 1689-1702
57. King Charles XII of Sweden, 1697-1718
58. Queen Anne of England, 1702-1714
59. Empress Anne Ioannovna of Russia, 1730-1740
60. Fredrick II (The Great) of Prussia, 1740-1786
61. Empress Catherine II (The Great) of Russia, 1762-1796
62. Christian VII of Denmark, 1766-1808
63. Kamran, emir of Afghanistan, early 19th century
64. King Charles XV of Sweden, 1859-1872
65. King Ludwig II of Bavaria, 1864-1886
66. King Abd Al-Rahman of Afghanistan, 1880-1901
67. King Mwanga of Buganda (Uganda), 1884-1897
68. King Gustavus V of Sweden, 1907-1950
69. King Ferdinand I of Bulgaria, 1908-1918
70. King Rama VI of Thailand, 1910-1925
71. King Amunullah Kahn of Afghanistan, 1919-1929
72. President Manuel Aza¤a of Spain, 1931-1933, 1936-1939
Title: Former Rep. Gerry Studds dies in Boston
Post by: corona on October 14, 2006, 07:21:17 PM
Gerry Eastman Studds (born May 12, 1937) is a retired American politician, born in Mineola, New York. He served as a Democratic Congressman for Massachusetts from 1973 until 1997. He was the first openly homosexual member of the US Congress and, more generally, the first openly gay national politician in the US. In 1983, he admitted to having a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old male page in 1973 and was censured by the House of Representatives.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/S001040.jpg)

Biography

Studds attended Yale University, from which he received a bachelor's degree in history in 1959 and a master's degree in 1961. Following graduation Studds was a foreign service officer in the State Department and then an assistant in the Kennedy White House, where he worked to establish a domestic Peace Corps. Later, he became a teacher at a St. Paul's School in Concord, New Hampshire.

Congress

Studds made his first run for public Congress in 1970, but lost to the incumbent Republican representative in a close election. In his second bid, in 1972, Studds succeeded, becoming the first Democrat in 50 years to win what had been considered a safe Republican seat.


Congressional page sex scandal

Studds was a central figure in the 1983 Congressional page sex scandal, when he and Representative Dan Crane were censured by the House of Representatives for separate sexual relationships with minors – in Studds's case, a 1973 relationship with a 17-year-old male congressional page who was of the age of legal consent, according to state law at the time. The relationship was consensual, but presented ethical concerns relating to working relationships with subordinates.

During the course of the House Ethics Committee's investigation, Studds publicly acknowledged his homosexuality, a disclosure that, according to a Washington Post article, "apparently was not news to many of his constituents." Studds stated in an address to the House, "It is not a simple task for any of us to meet adequately the obligations of either public or private life, let alone both, but these challenges are made substantially more complex when one is, as I am, both an elected public official and gay." He acknowledged that it had been inappropriate to engage in a relationship with a subordinate, and said his actions represented "a very serious error in judgement."

Nonetheless, when the House voted to censure Studds, on July 20, 1983, by a vote of 420-3, as the House read its censure motion aloud, Studds turned his back on the speaker and members in the chamber and ignored them. In addition to the censure, the Democratic leadership stripped Studds of his chairmanship of the House Merchant Marine subcommittee. Studds was later appointed chair of the House Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries. Studds recieved standing ovations, not in Congress as has been reported, but in his home district at his first town meeting following his congressional censure.


Continued service

Studds was re-elected to 5 more terms after the censure. He fought for many issues, including environmental and maritime issues, gay marriage, AIDS funding, and civil rights, particularly for homosexuals.

After Congress

Since retiring from Congress in 1997, Studds has been a lobbyist for the fishing industry. Studds previously worked for two years as executive director of the New Bedford Oceanarium, a facility still under development. Studds and his longtime partner, Dean T. Hara, who have been together since 1991, applied for a marriage license on May 18 and were married in Boston on May 24, 2005, one week after same-sex marriages became legal in Massachusetts. The Gerry E. Studds Stellwagen Bank National Marine Sanctuary, which sits at the mouth of Massachusetts Bay, is named for Studds.


By Scott Malone

BOSTON (Reuters) - Former U.S. Rep. Gerry Studds, a Massachusetts Democrat who was censured in 1983 for having a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old congressional intern, died on Saturday at Boston Medical Center, an official said. Christian Kiriakos, the hospital's central administrator, said Studds, 69, died Saturday morning, but did not provide details on the cause of his death.

Studds was the first member of the U.S. Congress to acknowledge he was gay. When he was censured by the U.S. House of Representatives in 1983 for his relationship with the male page, Studds stood defiantly on the floor with his back turned to his fellow lawmakers as the charges against him were read. Interns, formally known as congressional pages, are high school students who work on Capitol Hill as junior assistants to federal lawmakers.

Following the scandal, Studds, whose district included the Cape Cod beach resort, was re-elected numerous times. He served 12 terms before retiring in 1997. "Gerry was a stalwart champion of New England's fishing families as well as a committed environmentalist who worked hard to demonstrate that the cause of working people and the cause of the environment go hand-in-hand with the right leadership," Massachusetts Democratic Sen. John Kerry said.

"Gerry was also an inspiration to huge numbers of gay and lesbian Americans across our country to be open, honest and proud of who they are." Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage in 2003, with the first such marriages taking place in 2004. Studds married his partner Dean Hara that year, according to local media reports. "Gerry Studds was really a pioneer in being the first openly gay member of Congress," said Marc Solomon, campaign director for MassEquality, a state gay marriage advocacy group. "As the first openly gay member of Congress he increased the visibility for gays and lesbians." The Studds page scandal has been compared to one involving former Rep. Mark Foley, a Florida Republican who resigned last month amid news accounts of lurid Internet communications sent to former pages.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-10-14T185946Z_01_N14271062_RTRUKOC_0_US-STUDDS.xml&pageNumber=1&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage1
Title: Re: "Caligula"
Post by: ted on October 15, 2006, 06:06:38 PM

(http://www.penthouse.com/exclusives/caligula/scenes/j03.jpg)
"I am all men, as I am no man. And so ... I am a GOD!"


So Caligula hides behind the big male private part?
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: lizis on October 15, 2006, 07:01:36 PM
It doesn't look like he's "hiding" behind it ..
Title: Re: Caligula
Post by: pentagram on October 15, 2006, 10:21:27 PM

One popular tale, often cited as an example of his insanity and tyranny, is that Caligula appointed his favorite horse, Incitatus, to a seat on the senate and attempted to appoint it to the position of consul.


hahaha ... this is so funny ...
Title: Re: Former Rep. Gerry Studds dies in Boston
Post by: buffomet on October 15, 2006, 10:29:22 PM

"Gerry was a stalwart champion of New England's fishing families as well as a committed environmentalist who worked hard to demonstrate that the cause of working people and the cause of the environment go hand-in-hand with the right leadership," Massachusetts Democratic Sen. John Kerry said.

"Gerry was also an inspiration to huge numbers of gay and lesbian Americans across our country to be open, honest and proud of who they are."

"Gerry Studds was really a pioneer in being the first openly gay member of Congress," said Marc Solomon, campaign director for MassEquality, a state gay marriage advocacy group. "As the first openly gay member of Congress he increased the visibility for gays and lesbians."


So is Kerry and Democrats nuts?
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: bbq on October 16, 2006, 06:39:55 AM
Take note that there is a very important difference between pederasty and homosexuality. Most overviews of homosexual history claim that there is a clear line of development from (1) ancient pederastic relationships through (2) early/modern patron/protégé relationships to (3) modern egalitarian relationships. It is no accident that this resembles the alleged dialectic leading from (1) feudalism through (2) capitalism to (3) a class-less society. All three paradigms have been simplified and exaggerated, and the alleged shift from one period to another cannot be supported without ignoring a host of exceptions.

The basic premise that the dominant model of male homosexuality has shifted from the ancient and pre-modern model in which the partners were significantly separated by age (transgenerational, intergenerational, cross-age) to the modern model in which the partners are roughly the same age (egalitarian, androphilia), is challenged by the fact that egalitarian models also existed in ancient times and transgenerational models also exist in modern times. An outstanding exception to the supposed rule, dating from around 2600 BC is the tomb of Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep discovered at the necropolis of Saqqara in 1964. It is a joint tomb built for two men to cohabit through eternity. On the two pillars flanking the entrance, both men are given the identical title 'Manicurist and Overseer of the Manicurists in the Palace, King's Acquaintance and Royal Confident.' Above the entrance, the two men's names are combined into one name, with a play on words signifying 'Joined in life and joined in death.' The men were given the tomb by King Niusere of the 5th Dynasty. Although both men were married and had children, a series of bas reliefs nevertheless depict them embracing virtually as lovers.

Greg Reeder, who illustrates these images on his website, describes the culminating image as 'the most intimate embrace possible within the canons of ancient Egyptian art. Niankhkhnum on the right grasping his companion's right forearm; Khnumhotep, on the left, has his left arm across the other man's back, tightly clasping his shoulder. Again the tips of the men's noses are touching and this time their torsos are so close together that the knots on the belts of their kilts appear to be touching, perhaps even tied together.' The large relief of a banquet scene curiously has a space behind Niankhkhnum once occupied by an image of his wife, but which was effaced apparently before the tomb was sealed, so as to suggest that only he and Khnumhotep are present at the eternal banquet. The earliest visual evidence from the ancient world concerning two men who loved one another intimately thus depicts two adult men -- albeit hairdressers. The earliest written evidence of specifically homosexual relations also shows the love of two adult men, though from different classes: the love of King Pepy II Neferkare (Phiops II; 2355–2261 BC) for his general Sisinne.

The love of Achilles and Patroclus, described by Homer during the 6th or 7th century BC, is clearly an example of egalitarian love rather than institutional pederasty. But authors after Homer imposed a pederastic model upon the egalitarian pair, to accord with the paiderastic model found in Greece at their own time. They oddly portrayed Patroclus as the catamite, though in fact he was about a year older than Achilles. It has become so commonplace to view ancient homosexual relationships as examples of pederasty that we even think of Alexander and Hephaestion as a case in point, when in fact Hephaestion was a nobleman of Macedonia, and the same age as Alexander. Many pairs in lists of famous lovers that feature prominently in the homosexual literary tradition are egalitarian, in marked contrast to the modern attempt to force the pederastic model upon them.

'Intergenerational' is commonly used as a synonym for 'pederastic' or 'adult/adolescent' relationships, but the younger partner is by no means always adolescent. Euripides at the age of 72 fell in love with 40-old Agathon: 'A fine Autumn is a beautiful thing indeed!' Demosthenes is supposed to have fallen in love with Plutarch, who was never young. In the institutionalized homosexual marriages among the indigenous South African Thonga, the nkhonsthana, the 'boy-wife,' is often more than 20 years old. Just as age inequality is a cultural ideal of romantic love (gay or straight) which does not necessarily mirror reality, so the 'beautiful boy' is an icon of the homosexual imagination. Love letters between gay men regularly begin 'My Dear Boy.' but this is just a romantic form of address. For example, Marcus Aurelius was 18 years old at the time Marcus Fronto addressed him as 'Beloved Boy,' George Villiers was 21 when he was King James's 'sweet and dear child,' the Earl of Sunderland's 'dearest Boy' Captain Wilson was 22, Whitman's 'Dear Boy and Comrade' Peter Doyle was 18, Henry Greville's 'dear boy' Frederic Leighton was 26, Henry James's 'dearest Boy' Hendrik Andersen was 27, and Lord Alfred Douglas was 23 when Oscar Wilde wrote his infamous letter to 'My own Boy.'
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: bbq on October 16, 2006, 06:45:22 AM
Historians of homosexuality recognize that the transgenerational relationship was idealized, but they seldom go the necessary one step further to note that the age difference itself is part of an ideal fiction rather than reality. Ihara Saikaku's work in the 17th century 'makes it clear that the strict formulation of male love as a relationship between an adult man and a youth is frequently maintained only in the form of fictive role-playing.' In one tale the samurai youth and his boy lover are both 9 years old. In another the samurai is 26 years old and his lover is 63 years old but still sports the hairstyle of the 'youth.' In another, a 14-year-old samurai in order to establish his new manhood goes out and gets a 'youth' -- a 24-year-old kabuki actor/prostitute. Greenberg may be the person most responsible for promoting the conceptual category of the 'intergenerational' or 'transgenerational' relationship, which he regularly conflates with 'pederastic.'

He states as if it were a matter of fact that 'Many of the male homosexual relations of the time [during the Renaissance] were pederastic. Salai was 10 when he began living with the 38-year-old da Vinci; Michelangelo was 58 when he took up with the young Roman nobleman Tommaso Cavalieri.' In fact there is no evidence that relations between Da Vinci and Salai actually commenced when Salai was age 10. In fact Cavalieri -- whose age Greenberg does not mention -- was not a young boy but a hot young man. Greenberg seems almost intent to deliberately mislead us: 'Homosexual relations within the male aristocracy were generally pederastic, in congruity with the explicit inequalities that constitute an aristocratic order. George Villiers, duke of Buckingham, who shared James I's bed, was 25 years his junior.' Strictly speaking this example is correctly called 'transgenerational,' but Villiers was a 21-year-old adult at the time James fell in love with him, so it is quite wrong to call it 'pederastic'. Greenberg, and others in his steps, use their terms indiscriminately, and quite regularly call relationships involving an adult and a child 'transgenerational' even though there is very little age difference between them, and relationships involving adults 'pederastic' even when both partners are over 18 or even over 21. Such a practice seriously distorts the meaning of both words, rendering them not very useful for queer history.

It should be emphasized that the extensive friendship literature of Latin classicism and the Renaissance all focused upon love between men of about the same age. Montaigne in his essay 'On Friendship,' inspired by his love for Etienne de La Boétie, pointedly contrasts this masculine love with the inequalities of pederasty. Sir Francis Bacon explicitly holds up 'equality' as a key feature differentiating friendship between men from heterosexual marriage. A major theme of this tradition is that 'my friend is another myself,' which erases all inequalities. Virtually no 'anachronistic adjustments' have to be made in combining 16th-century friendship literature with the 'manly love of comrades' advocated by Walt Whitman in the 19th century –- often cited as the locus classicus of egalitarian homosexual love. The ideology of egalitarian homosexual relationships is not a product of capitalism or the modern age, but is directly traceable to the classical and Renaissance homosexual literary tradition. Boswell has similarly pointed out that the ideology of earlier medieval same-sex unions emphasizes their mutuality and equality, in marked contrast to the ideology of heterosexual unions which always emphasize subordination and possession of the woman by the man. Ceremonies of same-sex union closely follow heterosexual marriage ceremonies but notably omit the section about one partner 'yielding control' to the other. The rise of 'companionate marriage' itself draws upon several centuries of the philosophy of same-sex friendship.

'Brotherly' comradeship for many centuries has been emblematic of queer relationships, to such a degree that they have been perceived as a threat to the hierarchical structures of straight society, from the time of Harmodius and Aristogiton to the time of Oscar Wilde and his 'panthers' or working-class boys on the make. The view that all homosexual relationships in the ancient world were temporary and age-related 'is exaggerated even for Athens, and homosexual relationships in the rest of ancient Europe were certainly far more varied and flexible than this, probably not very different from their heterosexual counterparts ... Most ancient writers ... generally entertained higher expectations of the fidelity and permanence of homosexual passions than of heterosexual feelings.'
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: bbq on October 16, 2006, 06:51:27 AM
A focus upon youth is characteristic of classical discourse about paiderastia not because it is pederastic but because romantic love and desire always presuppose an age difference, and romantic love for the Greeks was often homosexual rather than heterosexual. All romantic desire, heterosexual as well as homosexual, is presumed to be directed towards the young, and 'most Athenian males married women considerably younger than themselves.' As far as cross-cultural evidence is concerned, many interpreters misleadingly apply the inaccurate term 'intergenerational sex' to relationships that typically entail a difference in age of only a half or a third of a generation. The only valid meaning of a 'generation' is the difference in age between parent and child, i.e. the 'generation gap.'

In historical and anthropological studies it is usually defined with reference to the average age at which a male marries and produces offspring, i.e. the difference in age between a father and his first-born child. A generation thus equals 20-30 years, and in most historical writing it denotes a period of 25 years (i.e. 4 generations per century). But the average difference in age in so-called 'intergenerational' homosexual relationships is usually 7 years, rarely 15 years, scarcely ever a full generation. The classic relationship of institutional military pederasty in Sparta/Crete is between a 12-year-old 'hearer' and a 22-year-old 'inspirer': a gap of 10 years. Heterosexual relationships in ancient and indigenous societies, in contrast, are invariably 'intergenerational' by this standard, in fact usually the age difference between men and women at marriage is significantly greater than between homosexual partners. In the Spartan/Cretan model, the 30-year-old man would marry an 18-year-old woman, a gap of 12 years -- 2 years longer than the gap between 'hearer' and 'inspirer'. Aristotle recommended that men marry at the age of 37 and women at the age of 18 -- proposing 19 years as the ideal intergenerational gap in heterosexual marriages!

On the other hand, to assert that the 'modern' homosexual was invented in the late 19th century, and then go on to say that 'modern' homosexuality is characteristically egalitarian rather than pederastic or transgenerational, is to completely ignore the fact that pederasty was still a major and perhaps even dominant model for homosexual relations at least until the Second World War. The strongly pederastic magazine Der Eigene was published in Germany from 1898 through 1930. Late Victorian and Edwardian homosexual literature is dominated by pederastic themes. Young rough trade is a common feature of homosexuality in England at least through the 1930s. In France Pédérasts were the archetypal homosexual roles through the 1950s. In southern Europe today it is common for there to be significant age differences between partners, and even in France the pédérast is still an important queer cultural paradigm. It really was not until the late 1960s, and specifically in America, that androphilia or egalitarian homosexuality came to be held up as the ideal model for a modern queer democracy, and the pederastic model was characterized as being exploitative.

But early gay liberation collections of poetry, such as Winston Leyland's Angels of the Lyre or Ian Young's "The Male Muse" or Paul Mariah's "Manroot" journal, contain a super-abundance of pederastic verse. Homosexual photographic magazines in London were dominated by the slim adolescent male through most of the 1970s. Chunky rough types were not common until the 1980s, and 'older men' were not common objects of desire until the late 1980s (as long as they wore leather). The view that a 'fundamental transition' has taken place is hardly tenable for the period since 1969, and demonstrably untrue as an indicator of the 'modern' period in general. Those who think that equal-age 'androphilia' rules the day ought to peruse 1990s personal ads and porn videos, a typical title of which is "Just 18"

In the ancient world the ideal beloved was not a 'boy' but an 'ephebe' just below 17 years old; to judge by modern gay literature and videos the 17-year-old boy is still the primary object of desire. Late adolescence is the classical ideal, as in The Greek Anthology (third century): 'I delight in the prime of a boy of 12, but one of 13 is much more desirable. He who is 14 is a still sweeter flower of the Loves, and one who is just beginning his 15th year is yet more delightful. The 16th year is that of the gods, and as for the 17th it is not for me, but for Zeus, to seek it. But if one has a desire for those still older, he no longer plays, but now seeks "And answering him back". The ideal Renaissance ephebe is of course Michelangelo's statue of David, a classic queer icon. Such ephebes feature prominently in the photographs of Bruce Weber and Herbert List – which regularly reappear on the covers of modern studies of gay history and autobiographies.

Age-asymmetrical relationships are surely not a thing of the past. One look at a photograph of Christopher Isherwood with his lover Don Bachardy ought to dispel the notion that 'pederasty' is purely an ancient paradigm. In 1996 Mr. Gay UK was 20 and his lover was 36; he has taken his older spouse's last name, a not uncommon practice. In heterosexual culture May–December relationships are nearly as common today as they used to be in the Middle Ages. Photographs of couples on the 'social pages' of contemporary newspapers and magazines make it obvious that wealthy and important men have wives noticeably younger than themselves. When a successful businessman takes a second wife, she is always the same age as his first wife, though he himself has doubled in age. The higher a man's status in 'high society,' the younger his wife is likely to be (and his mistress is even younger). It was ever thus.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: percy on October 16, 2006, 09:27:21 PM

In the military the lovers fought side by side, with each vying to shine before the other. Thus, it was said that an army of lovers would be invincible, as was the case until the battle of Chaeronea with the Theban Sacred Band, a battalion of 150 warriors, each aided by his beloved charioteer. Pederastic couples were also said to be feared by tyrants, because the bond between the friends was stronger than that of obedience to a tyrannical ruler. Athenaeus states that,

"Hieronymus the Aristotelian says that love with boys was fashionable because several tyrannies had been overturned by young men in their prime, joined together as comrades in mutual sympathy."

He gives as examples of such pederastic couples the Athenians Harmodius and Aristogeiton, who were credited (perhaps symbolically) with the overthrow of the tyrant Hippias and the establishment of the democracy, and also Chariton and Melanippus.

Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: gibbsale on October 17, 2006, 12:04:40 AM
 Wow. The Foley controversy has revealed that men are attracted to teenagers. Shocking.
 
 Foley's no pedophile. He abused his position, to be sure, and his activity can certainly be deemed creepy, but his behavior is not exactly atypical in a world of trophy wives and Britney Spears.  The real concern is the male/male dynamic, but the left will not bring that up because they do not want to be perceived as anti-gay and the right will  not bring it up because they do not want to admit that  they favor male/female "intergenerational" relationships over equivalent male/male relationships. Better to paint Foley as a gay pedophile and exploit the stereotype than admit to the American people that the age is not even really the issue.

 And yet somehow, it is all about the children. Please. Focus on the abuse of authority and leave the sex offender games to the radicals.
 
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: monikka on October 27, 2006, 02:59:48 AM
Wow. The Foley controversy has revealed that men are attracted to teenagers. Shocking.
 
 Foley's no pedophile. He abused his position, to be sure, and his activity can certainly be deemed creepy, but his behavior is not exactly atypical in a world of trophy wives and Britney Spears.  The real concern is the male/male dynamic, but the left will not bring that up because they do not want to be perceived as anti-gay and the right will  not bring it up because they do not want to admit that  they favor male/female "intergenerational" relationships over equivalent male/male relationships. Better to paint Foley as a gay pedophile and exploit the stereotype than admit to the American people that the age is not even really the issue.

 And yet somehow, it is all about the children. Please. Focus on the abuse of authority and leave the sex offender games to the radicals.
 

Are you crazy? Only the skewed perpective of a law student could lead to this conclusion. Unalarming because age is not really the really. Jesus! Of course it is!!!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: gibbsale on October 31, 2006, 01:28:24 AM
If age is the major issue, why is the age of consent 16 in the relevant jurisdictions?


 If my perspective is skewed, it is because our culture's debate about this issue is skewed. As I said, we can debate ethical improprieties, sure, but a 16 year-old resident of Florida or Washington, DC can consent to sex. So we are not debating pedophilia, certainly, and not even statutory rape. So what is the issue? Is it abuse of authority? Is it the gender of the alleged victims? Because if the issue is age, state age of consent laws should reflect that. And I am certain that not all states define consent as beginning at 18.
 
 If age is the issue, it is a question of ethics, not law. And if the law deems 16 year olds capable of consent, and consensual sex is not to be frowned upon, what is the debate? Is it abuse of power? Coercion? Or is it the fact that the Foley is gay?

 Not an easy question. If the issue is the gender of the pages, then implicit in that judgment is a recognition that it would not have been as bad if the pages were female, hardly a great position for Republicans to take. If the issue is age, what in the hell is wrong with our laws? Shouldn't Floridians excuse Foley's conduct, then, because the Florida legislature made a judgment about the age of consent?

 Or is the issue the fact that this was done over the internet, and Foley and his allies in Congress criminalized solicitation for sexual activities with someone under 18 over the internet? If that is the case, would in-person statements have been acceptable?

 A confused issue, because our debate over this kind of conduct is confused. And our culture (as reflected by trophy wives and pop stars) is profoundly confused. Even the puritans in the GOP are confused, because they appear to be suggesting that this is A) the product of a gay GOP conspiracy, B) the result of Republicans not wanting to appear anti-gay or C) election-year manuvering on the part of the Democrats...although admittedly all parties involved are Republicans. Option D, I suppose, is all of the above. That speaks volumes for the party of "personal responsibility."

 Skewed? Me? I think something is skewed, but I do not think it is my perspective.

 

 
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: m a h m u d on November 05, 2006, 04:36:55 PM
"Now there are dozens of calls for House Speaker Dennis Hastert to step down. As you know, Hastert was a former gym teacher and boys' wrestling coach. To which Mark Foley said, 'Why would anybody quit a dream job like that?'." --Jay Leno
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: SherriBrown on November 05, 2006, 05:10:29 PM

If age is the major issue, why is the age of consent 16 in the relevant jurisdictions?

If my perspective is skewed, it is because our culture's debate about this issue is skewed. As I said, we can debate ethical improprieties, sure, but a 16 year-old resident of Florida or Washington, DC can consent to sex. So we are not debating pedophilia, certainly, and not even statutory rape. So what is the issue? Is it abuse of authority? Is it the gender of the alleged victims? Because if the issue is age, state age of consent laws should reflect that. And I am certain that not all states define consent as beginning at 18.
 
If age is the issue, it is a question of ethics, not law. And if the law deems 16 year olds capable of consent, and consensual sex is not to be frowned upon, what is the debate? Is it abuse of power? Coercion? Or is it the fact that the Foley is gay?

Not an easy question. If the issue is the gender of the pages, then implicit in that judgment is a recognition that it would not have been as bad if the pages were female, hardly a great position for Republicans to take. If the issue is age, what in the hell is wrong with our laws? Shouldn't Floridians excuse Foley's conduct, then, because the Florida legislature made a judgment about the age of consent?

Or is the issue the fact that this was done over the internet, and Foley and his allies in Congress criminalized solicitation for sexual activities with someone under 18 over the internet? If that is the case, would in-person statements have been acceptable?

A confused issue, because our debate over this kind of conduct is confused. And our culture (as reflected by trophy wives and pop stars) is profoundly confused. Even the puritans in the GOP are confused, because they appear to be suggesting that this is A) the product of a gay GOP conspiracy, B) the result of Republicans not wanting to appear anti-gay or C) election-year manuvering on the part of the Democrats...although admittedly all parties involved are Republicans. Option D, I suppose, is all of the above. That speaks volumes for the party of "personal responsibility."

Skewed? Me? I think something is skewed, but I do not think it is my perspective.


gibb, It's not about Foley being gay. Foley is a pedophile.

"He's gay! Oh, okay." This scandal is truly a despicable and revolting episode. First, he resigned in response to an ABC story disclosing his email and internet messages to underage Capitol Hill pages. Then he said he was going into an alcohol rehabilitation program, a la Mel Gibson. Finally, he said that he was molested by a priest as a child. While there seems to be a new, shocking revelation about Mark Foley every hour, his latest gambit is perhaps the most insulting. Foley's lawyer acknowledged for the first time that the former congressman is gay, saying the disclosure was part of his client's recovery.

While I certainly recommend coming out to every closeted gay person, by making his orientation a part of this sordid tale, Mark Foley puts every gay person in the crosshairs of every American who cannot distinguish between pedophilia and homosexuality. He insinuates that being gay is a sickness that requires sympathy and that explains his criminal behavior. There is nothing more insulting to gay Americans than having the finger of blame pointed squarely at them for something that has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation. The Republican spin machine is working overtime to distract Americans from what is really going on — another Republican scandal. (How much more can go wrong for those in control of our country?) The Catholic Church did it and now our leadership is doing it. They are making it about being gay rather than being a pedophile.

Such blurring of facts touches the society's internalized homophobia and recalls the days when homosexuality was classified as a sickness. While the world has moved beyond that misunderstanding, the anti-gay right still uses that bludgeon by deliberately confusing gay and pedophile. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a spike in support for anti-marriage amendments in the states where they are on the ballots. This is the direct effect of message blurring. One tactic is confusing the legal issue by creating moral approbation of homosexuality.

In 1994, a study by Dr. Carole Jenny of the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center appeared in Pediatrics, a peer-reviewed journal. The subjects were 269 sexually abused children seen at Denver Children's Hospital over one year. Heterosexuals molested more than 99% of the girls in the study. Of that number, heterosexual males who knew their victims molested 80%. Heterosexuals molested 98% of the boys in the study. Of that number, heterosexual males who knew their victims molested 75 percent. Gays aren't the problem, pedophiles are, no matter what the Catholic Church or the Republican leadership say.

Foley's no gay. He's a pedophile.
Title: END THE CONGRESSIONAL PAGE PROGRAM IMMEDIATELY!
Post by: gejco on November 06, 2006, 04:21:29 AM
If age is the major issue, why is the age of consent 16 in the relevant jurisdictions?


 If my perspective is skewed, it is because our culture's debate about this issue is skewed. As I said, we can debate ethical improprieties, sure, but a 16 year-old resident of Florida or Washington, DC can consent to sex. So we are not debating pedophilia, certainly, and not even statutory rape. So what is the issue? Is it abuse of authority? Is it the gender of the alleged victims? Because if the issue is age, state age of consent laws should reflect that. And I am certain that not all states define consent as beginning at 18.
 
 If age is the issue, it is a question of ethics, not law. And if the law deems 16 year olds capable of consent, and consensual sex is not to be frowned upon, what is the debate? Is it abuse of power? Coercion? Or is it the fact that the Foley is gay?

 Not an easy question. If the issue is the gender of the pages, then implicit in that judgment is a recognition that it would not have been as bad if the pages were female, hardly a great position for Republicans to take. If the issue is age, what in the hell is wrong with our laws? Shouldn't Floridians excuse Foley's conduct, then, because the Florida legislature made a judgment about the age of consent?

 Or is the issue the fact that this was done over the internet, and Foley and his allies in Congress criminalized solicitation for sexual activities with someone under 18 over the internet? If that is the case, would in-person statements have been acceptable?

 A confused issue, because our debate over this kind of conduct is confused. And our culture (as reflected by trophy wives and pop stars) is profoundly confused. Even the puritans in the GOP are confused, because they appear to be suggesting that this is A) the product of a gay GOP conspiracy, B) the result of Republicans not wanting to appear anti-gay or C) election-year manuvering on the part of the Democrats...although admittedly all parties involved are Republicans. Option D, I suppose, is all of the above. That speaks volumes for the party of "personal responsibility."

 Skewed? Me? I think something is skewed, but I do not think it is my perspective.

 

The issue is man/boy sexual relations, which are inherently unequal and disadvantageous to one party (the boy). The society should promote equal sexual relationships, which are, in general, those between men/women of roughly the same age. Foley was of an age to be the page's father. Such "dads" may be fun, but they're too old to have the best of intentions in their hearts when playing with their capable-to-consent-to-a-sexual-relation -- legally speaking -- "sons."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: gibbsale on November 06, 2006, 08:53:36 AM
Fine, gejco, that is a fair point. Hence, coercion, abuse of authority, etc. as I noted in earlier posts. But frankly, that is not really the debate we are having, because many if not most states set their age of consent below 18. My points are 1) this is not pedophilia, as these were teenagers, 2) the ethical dimension has nothing to do with legal consent and 3) the reaction is disproportionate because of the gender of the pages, not because of the age. I do not think, frankly, there would be as much outrage if the pages were female. The wording of your own post suggests as much, as you refer to man/boy relationships (alluding to the sinister image of a group like NAMBLA), as opposed to say, adult/teenager relationships. Is the issue miraculously resolved if the pages were 18 or 19? I do not think so. Is it resolved if the gender of the page is female? To some people, it would appear so.

 And Sherri, Foley is not, by definition, a pedophile. The pages are all teenagers; pedophiles are attracted to children who have not gone through puberty. That is not what we are talking about. Foley maintained adult relationships with other men, so yes he is gay. Now obviously not all gay men have sex with teenage boys or are attracted to teenage boys, just as all straight men do not have sex with teenage girls, nor are they all particularly attracted to teenage girls.

 And yes, Foley is trying to make it seem as though his homosexuality had something to do with his behavior (apart from the gender of the pages, that is), or alcohol, past sexual abuse by a priest, etc. He is certainly rationalizing it, and you are right, that is offensive and false. I am not denying that. But the point you made about the Republican spin on this illustrates my point: with Foley, much of the outrage has nothing to do with the age of the victims, but their gender. And that is the hypocrisy that is captivating both parties; I doubt Democrats want the age of consent laws raised in every jurisdiction to 18 (for good reason; statutory rape law is a nightmare as it is), and I doubt many Republicans want it raised except for gay sex (although that strategy failed in Kansas).

 I think Foley's behavior is inexcusable. He abused a position of authority over these pages, putting them in a position where they had to go along with his advances (he was a fairly powerful Republican, after all) or risk their political development. And I think gejco's point is worthwhile, on an ethical if not legal plane, because I do not know that you can have meaningful consent when the age difference is so stark and the other person is so young. But "roughly the same age" is not a standard, and as I mentioned before, trophy wives are pretty pervasive. Professors have sex with students at university. I could go on.

 But when it comes down to it, all sides are exploiting the gender of the victims. Ask yourself this: if it was a teenage girl, would it have been such a boon to Democrats?

 
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: theworldinahand on November 06, 2006, 09:15:12 PM

But when it comes down to it, all sides are exploiting the gender of the victims. Ask yourself this: if it was a teenage girl, would it have been such a boon to Democrats?


Enter Clinton and Monika Lewinski. The cut-n-paste guy will surely provide something to look into. Enter cut-n-paste guy.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: pruritis on November 07, 2006, 04:11:24 PM
Lewinski was not an underage child when she sucked Clinton off. She was 22 years old.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: bucketlaw on November 23, 2006, 03:39:32 PM
The sugar daddy and the house boy, the older gay man and his baby-faced companion, is a gay paradigm that traces back centuries. It is rooted in the long history of homosexual stealth-English lords who carried on with young kitchen hands, prominent married men who found young underlings at the office. Before the 1960s, gay relationships were plagued by radical inequalities of income, education, social class and age. Because of the nature of finding gay partners, older, established men often took up with unresponsive, sometimes homicidal proletarian gay youth. As homosexuality has won wider acceptance in American society, gay relationships have come to mirror most heterosexual relationships: a union of social and economic equals.

But the sugar daddy-"kept" boy pattern persists in two ways. Many still-closeted gay men are forced to pay for the companionship of boys who prey on them. This is not without danger: a few years ago, a prominent, secretly gay, 55-year-old New York real estate lawyer, David Schwartz, was stabbed to death by an 18-year-old street hustler in a seedy Bronx motel room. And some openly gay men enjoy "daddy-son" relationships as an erotic spoof of the old paradigm. Sugar daddies come in all sexual orientations, of course. There's always going to be a small segment of the population-gay or straight-who are interested in much younger partners. Sugar daddies and young boys are no more common among gays than older straight men going after trophy wives. Gay culture, like straight, worships youth. It's the same as Jack Kent Cooke and Marlene.

This has been going on for years, I mean since the ancient Greeks, honey," says the manager of the Townhouse, a New York City bar where handsome young men meet older gentlemen. For example, San Diego's high-end gigolos accompany their older mates to very sophisticated parties where the best food and the best drinks are served. In their minds, these older gentlemen know they can't go to the gay bars, they can't go to the gay restaurants, but they can buy these young men. Some older men feel unable to go to the gay clubs that attract the youngest crowd because there's this perception that older gay men are going after young boys and the minute an older man goes near a young man, they're branded as pedophiles. There's a huge divide between one generation of gay men and the next.

The bartender at a gay club is in his mid-twenties. He says he makes about $100 a night in tips, mostly from older customers. But not long ago, he says, an older man offered him $50,000 just to sit around a pool in Palm Springs. The barkeep says he spurned the offer. "I have morals," he says. "Because I want to be in control of my life. Because I have self-respect." Despite the revolution in gay relationships, plenty of young men remain willing, even eager, to attach themselves to older men with money. Some of the young men are products of poor rural or urban communities in which homosexuality is still kept under wraps, boys who come to the big city and find both financial support and sexual license from older men who seem to know the ropes. On the streets of Washington and in gay neighborhoods around the nation, the sugar daddy scene is no joke.

Atan upstairs club at 17th and R streets NW, Top 40 music plays softly in the background as men circulate around the bar. A man in his mid-20s dressed in jeans and a black shirt arrives with several friends. He has Italian movie star looks. He bumps into an elderly man who looks infirm. They chat, introduce each other to their friends. Within 20 minutes, the young men slip out of the bar-accompanied by the elderly gent. Jamie, 22, dressed in a Burberry blazer, sips a vodka tonic as he watches the intergenerational pickup. "They are going to roll him good," he says. "When these boys see these men, they see dollar signs."

The club is "sugar daddy heaven," says Jamie, an Alexandria schoolteacher."You can work those men right out of their jeans. The difference for me is that I went to college, to Columbia. I'm not a stupid guy. I'm not poor. They treat the boys like [dirt]. I have a friend who's with a sugar daddy. He has to stay in his room. He'll do anything for money." The sugar daddies Jamie knows are "older men waiting to recapture part of their youth. They want to party. It's like a midlife crisis thing for gay men." Hans Conley, 45, works in the travel industry in New York City and recently ended a relationship with a 25-year-old man who had come to New York to try to become a model. The two met at a bar and while they were together, they lived at Conley's apartment. "I paid for everything," Conley says. The relationship ended when the young man decided that he perhaps was not gay. "It fulfills a void-loneliness, I guess," Conley says of hooking up with and supporting a younger man.

But sugar daddy relationships inevitably falter, Conley believes. "My perception is that the [younger partners] get tired of selling themselves -- and that is exactly what they are doing -- and then it becomes a type of rebellion. They are ashamed of what they do and realize there is no future in it." In Washington, sugar daddies often find mates at bars in Georgetown or on 17th Street NW rather than in the more competitive and raunchy confines of the gay club strip around Half Street SW. "You go to places where there is money," says Ron, 40, a formerly kept man who now frequents the city's bars. "This is a political city. They're not stupid. In D.C., there's lots of escort services, and older guys will just call up and work through those."

Ron lives in a Dupont Circle apartment decorated with posters of crouching naked men holding chains. "Whoever's paying, they're in control," he said. "If I'm paying, you're mine. You have to do whatever I say. When I say jump, you jump. If an older guy meets somebody, and they're what he wants, he's gonna try to take care of them. "I've been taken care of, but it wasn't really what I wanted," Ron said. Eventually, he quit the scene, in part because a kept man is on the wrong end of a sometimes-predatory power relationship. "I was raised from a good family. I don't have to have someone to take care of me. I knew it wasn't right. And eventually I was the one who had to pay for it." At New York's Townhouse, the scene is hopping. The East Side bar looks like a Midwestern hotel lounge, decorated in neutral shades and dark woods. It's a place where older men feel comfortable approaching men half their age.

"As long as two people are happy and no one is getting hurt, what's the harm in that?" asks the 38-year-old manager, who declined to be named. "If you're a gay older male and you have money, there are certainly places where they can buy things. As long as you're making a purchase in that direction, who wouldn't want to sleep with a 24-year-old hard body? It's a human thing." Younger guys are interested in older guys because of intelligence, and a lot of times older guys are more mellow about things," says the Townhouse coat check man, Duane Bousfield, 37. "It's not all looks or sex. Patrick Suraci, a Manhattan clinical psychologist and author of "Male Sexual Armor," has treated both sugar daddies and "boy toys" and has seen some relationships that actually worked for a time. "The younger one gets money, cars, clothes, whatever he wants," Suraci says. "The older one is getting sex, attention and prestige ... He won the trophy. I can have him and you can't."

But the younger partner "is generally very narcissistic. In the beginning, his pleasure comes from knowing he's so beautiful, so attractive, so charming and has such great sexual skill that someone will pay money for him. But narcissism is usually a wound from childhood. If they do reach a crisis point where they realize their life is a fraud, they rarely seek help. It's one of the hardest type cases to treat. Money becomes such an aphrodisiac to them. The crisis typically arises as the gigolo's looks begin to fade. "I've studied a lot of these hustlers, and they always are saying they're going to go to college, they're going to have a profession," Suraci says. And it never happens, and then it's too late.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: exe on November 23, 2006, 05:11:10 PM

Some older men feel unable to go to the gay clubs that attract the youngest crowd because there's this perception that older gay men are going after young boys and the minute an older man goes near a young man, they're branded as pedophiles.


It's not because they are branded as pedophiles that they can't go to the gay bars .. it's because they are branded as gay that they don't go to those bars ..
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: rosebud on December 07, 2006, 07:05:16 PM
The Abominable Crimes of Nero

Another gay Roman emperor was the infamous Nero, who assured his ascension to the throne by having his brother Britannicus murdered in 55 A.D. 4 years later he had his mother murdered as well. Of Nero, Chris Scarre, author of Chronicle of the Roman Emperors, writes:

Quote
Nero divorced his first wife, Octavia, and then had her killed. He married Poppaea, but in a fit of rage while she was pregnant, he kicked her to death. He married a 3d wife, but then he left her for a boy who resembled Poppaea. While it is believed that Nero did not start the great fire that destroyed much of Rome, it did clear the land he needed on which to build his Golden House, a palace of such size, richness, and majesty as had never been seen before. The excesses he showered upon himself, his brutality, and his outrageous behavior finally drove away his last supporters.


Other accounts hold that Nero had been rumored to be the arsonist, and that he initiated extreme cruelties against the early Christians after blaming them for the fire. Interestingly, Russell does not devote a chapter of his book to this unspeakably wicked gay despot. He makes only indirect reference to him by mentioning that, with the exception of Claudius, all of the emperors of the Julio-Claudian period were homosexual. The Roman historian Tacitus writes:

Quote
... in order to abolish that rumor, Nero falsely accused and executed with the most exquisite punishments those people called Christians ...And perishing they were additionally made into sports: they were killed by dogs by having the hides of beasts attached to them, or they were nailed to crosses or set aflame, and, when the daylight passed away, they were used as nighttime lamps ... people began to pity these sufferers, because they were consumed not for the public good but on account of the fierceness of one man.


Included among the other gay emperors were Caligula and the tyrannical Tiberius, who did not trust the Senate and saw to the assassination of dozens of equestrians and Senators. Caligula was known to be insane and was famous for excessive cruelty, incestuous relationships with his sisters, and the plan to make his horse a consul. Caligula also ordered his cousin Gemellus killed in order to avoid having to share the powers of the throne with him.
 
Nero As Beast of the Apocalypse

Friedrich Engels, in his work "On the History of Early Christianity," writes about 1st-century Christians and their beliefs regarding the Beast of the Apocalypse. Described but not explicitly identified in the Book of Revelation, the Beast was expected to be the resurrected spirit of the criminally insane Nero. Engels relied upon interpretations of Revelation by German biblical scholars. As viewed by Engels, Revelation is all about the early Christians' desire for harsh vengeance against Nero for the cruel persecution he initiated against their martyred brothers after the fire swept through Rome. Revelation incorporates metaphors based upon the number 7, because of the 7 hills of Rome. Further, there were 7 first-century Roman emperors. The Beast of 7 Heads was expected to be the resurrected spirit of one of these emperors. Of additional interest in Revelation is God's opening of the 7 seals. Revelation says that the opening of each seal is followed by all sorts of miraculous menacing signs, and "when the 5th seal is opened, John sees under the alter of God the souls of the martyrs of Christ who were slain for the word of God," and who are crying for vengeance. The 5th emperor in the succession beginning with Augustus, the 1st of the 7, was the degenerate madman Nero.

But there's more. Engels points out that, according to the numerological system for letters of the Hebrew alphabet, the phrase Emperor Nero adds up to 666. In Revelation this is the number of the Beast. Further, he says that this association with Nero was commonly known among Christians of the time. In plain terms, they hated Nero and wanted God to unleash his wrath upon him. It is reasonable to suspect that part of their resentment was fueled by the effects of centuries of oppression by the homosexual Graeco-Roman patriarchs who had made a practice of sexually abusing male slaves, boys, and prisoners of war. Engels emphasizes that the early Christians were largely the underdogs of society and included many slaves and emancipated slaves -- the very class of people most vulnerable to sexual exploitation by homosexuals.

St. Augustine the Woman-Hater

Another prominent homosexual character from the days of the Roman Empire was St. Augustine (354-430 AD), described by Russell as "one of the greatest fathers of the Roman Catholic Church, a thinker who changed the course of Western civilization." Russell continues:

Quote
He adumbrated notions of sin, perversion, and the relationship between good and evil that have so permeated our thought ... Augustine condemned most sexual acts, even those performed by married couples. Sex for procreation was, for Augustine, the only moral sexual act -- and even that was distasteful ... More than anyone else, Augustine furthered Christianity's long attempt to suppress any physical expressions of love except those that resulted in children.

Augustine appears to bear a great deal of responsibility for the Catholic Church's long-standing tradition of teaching women to fear and despise their sexuality. Offering more evidence of male homosexual contempt for effeminacy, Russell also described Augustine as "a thorough-going misogynist," who was "particularly disgusted by men who allowed their bodies to be used 'as that of a woman.'" Russell says that Augustine engaged in homosexual affairs when he was young but later felt "disgust" at his younger self.


At the time Rome fell in the West, its sexual legislation was deeply repressive. After Constantine a series of Christian emperors imposed heavy penalties on homosexual acts. In 390. for example. Valentinian II decreed:

Cod.Theod. IX. Vii. 6: All persons who have the shameful custom of condemning a man’s body, acting the part of a woman’s to the sufferance of alien sex (for they appear not to be different from women), shall expiate a crime of this kind in avenging flames in the sight of the people.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: doremi on December 12, 2006, 11:36:01 PM
Very interesting, rosebud!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Spritz!Spritz! on December 13, 2006, 12:37:54 PM
very interesting indeed! you feminine hygiene product
Title: Madonna Gave Brit Kiss of Death?
Post by: leg on December 21, 2006, 09:54:06 PM

[...] but his behavior is not exactly atypical in a world of trophy wives and Britney Spears[...]
 

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40090000/jpg/_40090524_britneykiss_203.jpg)

Do you know what happened with Britney? When exactly did Britney Spears jump the shark? Writer Camille Paglia says it was when she kissed Madonna on the 2003 MTV Video Music Awards. Paglia told US that, in a sense, Madonna was saying, "'I'm passing the torch to you.' It was a fabulous moment. Britney looked toned, in control of her career. Literally from that kiss, from that moment onward, Britney has spiraled out of control." Thanks a lot, Madge.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mrsdclare on December 21, 2006, 11:15:25 PM
I worked as a Congressional Page for the House of Representatives in High School.  It was one of the best things I did my entire high school career.  I loved it.  I did not see the debauchary that apparently every one assumes is common place for all pages.  I think it really has to do with the personalities of those who are chosen to work as Pages.  The people I hung out with while I worked as a page were my fellow pages who were also my age.  I am sure we could have found trouble had we wanted to. ;) BTW I still maintain contact with many of my fellow pages today, like  8 years later.  Anyway just thought I would put in my two cents since I had firsthand experience with the OP.  I would be willing to answer any questions others might have. 
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mrsdclare on December 22, 2006, 11:38:52 AM
Bill Gates was also a page
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mantoytano on December 25, 2006, 02:22:14 AM

I am sure we could have found trouble had we wanted to. ;)
 

Didn't you want to?!
Title: Re: Madonna Gave Brit Kiss of Death?
Post by: LawNOrder on December 29, 2006, 08:51:53 PM

[image removed]

Do you know what happened with Britney? When exactly did Britney Spears jump the shark? Writer Camille Paglia says it was when she kissed Madonna on the 2003 MTV Video Music Awards. Paglia told US that, in a sense, Madonna was saying, "'I'm passing the torch to you.' It was a fabulous moment. Britney looked toned, in control of her career. Literally from that kiss, from that moment onward, Britney has spiraled out of control." Thanks a lot, Madge.


Looks like Madonna has smarter advisors/pr people!
Title: Britney in Malibu Rehab Center
Post by: winona on February 22, 2007, 08:58:13 PM

[image removed]

Do you know what happened with Britney? When exactly did Britney Spears jump the shark? Writer Camille Paglia says it was when she kissed Madonna on the 2003 MTV Video Music Awards. Paglia told US that, in a sense, Madonna was saying, "'I'm passing the torch to you.' It was a fabulous moment. Britney looked toned, in control of her career. Literally from that kiss, from that moment onward, Britney has spiraled out of control." Thanks a lot, Madge.


(http://images.askmen.com/imagesmusician/BritneySpears/britney_spears_150.JPG)

LOS ANGELES -- An appearance in family court sought by Kevin Federline amid a child custody dispute with Britney Spears was canceled Thursday after the pop star entered a rehabilitation program. Spears has gone into the Promises Malibu drug and alcohol rehabilitation center, her manager, Larry Rudolph, confirmed in an e-mail to The Associated Press. He gave no details. The TV entertainment magazines "Extra" and "The Insider" and the Web site TMZ said Spears' mother, Lynne Spears, drove her daughter to the center, which she had reportedly been in and out of earlier in the week.

The center specializes in treating drug and alcohol abuse. Last week, Spears sought treatment at a center in the Caribbean but also checked out after a day, according to various reports. Spears and Federline reportedly agreed Wednesday night that he would keep their two young sons while Spears was in rehabilitation, a program that takes between 30 and 45 days.

(http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/02/22/PH2007022200147.jpg)

Last Friday, Spears arrived at a San Fernando Valley hair salon, grabbed an electric razor and shaved her head bald. Afterward, she visited a tattoo parlor, where she had a pair of red-and-pink lips inked onto her wrist. Then she went out clubbing with friends before apparently checking into Promises. Whether her recent behavior will damage her recording career is hard to say, said Vibe magazine music editor Jon Caramanica.

Spears, whose 1999 debut album, "... Baby One More Time," sold more than 13 million copies, hasn't released a new album since 2003. Before her troubles began she had promised one this year, and Caramanica suggested that might be a good outlet to address what she's going through. "I think the best thing she could do is make an album that engages with this subject matter in some way," he said. "Not only to have a good album but to have an album that's a declaration of emotional health."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Troy on July 08, 2007, 09:09:56 PM

Some older men feel unable to go to the gay clubs that attract the youngest crowd because there's this perception that older gay men are going after young boys and the minute an older man goes near a young man, they're branded as pedophiles.


It's not because they are branded as pedophiles that they can't go to the gay bars .. it's because they are branded as gay that they don't go to those bars ..


David is a kept boy. This year, he’ll collect $50,000 from two much older male sponsors who pay him for sex and companionship. It's a thriving underground industry, David says. And he's far from alone in taking care of business. Rich, closeted gay men—in La Jolla and moneyed communities all over the world—pay big bucks to maintain discreet liaisons with younger (though legal age), pay-for-play boys. The practice, many would say, differs only in degree from the straight-world version of older wealthy males collecting younger "trophy" wives or girlfriends. The difference: The mainstream has—fundamentally, if not wholeheartedly—embraced the latter as a socially acceptable inclination.

David (not his real name) lives in Hillcrest. The money he quietly receives via bank drafts goes in large part toward college tuition, he says. In addition to the money, David's sugar daddies lavish him with gifts—like the Cartier watch draped on his wrist, the latest in computer hardware, and the furniture that adorns his home. And they wine and dine him at tony spots like the Hotel del Coronado and Le Meridien, or downtown's La Strada and Fio's. Not bad for someone with no full-time job, per se. Especially since before becoming a trophy boy, David was a hooker. There's a difference, he says. He met both sponsors through classified ads. "At the time, I was hooking. I'd been hooking for two years. Just four days after putting an ad in national classifieds I was in New York. Days later I was in Phoenix. I was flown out to places sight unseen—except for a small picture that ran with my ad. A $56 ad made me so much money. Both of my sponsors first called me strictly on a sexual basis, but then took a liking to me."

Though he won't name names, David says his benefactors are prominent and wealthy businessmen. "There are so many wealthy gay men who will pay for companionship from younger guys," he says. "It's a whole circuit. The people that do this are the most powerful in America. It's unbelievable. It can be married men in high-level positions. Very, very wealthy men. To this day it still surprises me when my friends tell me who they're sleeping with. Or when these men appear as guests on Larry King Live." In agreeing to meet face to face with a reporter, David asked that his physical description be kept to a minimum. Suffice to say he could easily be cast as a pool cleaner on Melrose Place. His shoulders stretch the elasticity limit of a white Gap T-shirt. Though his visage is nearly fawn-like, David's close-cropped hair lends an appearance slightly reminiscent of Kept-Boy-of-the-Year Andrew Cunanan.

"It's fun when I deposit $30,000 in my account in one month. But as far as it being fun and exciting to be with an older man—it’s not. They’re not fun to hang out with. When one of my sponsors wants me to go with him to the Ritz-Carlton Laguna Niguel for a weekend -- and I'm not due to get any money from him for two months -- I wonder if it's really worth it. After I've already received a chunk of money, I really don't feel like being bothered."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Troy on July 08, 2007, 09:15:57 PM
An older man feels he maintains youth by having someone around who is younger. And there are men—both homosexual and heterosexual -- who simply like to pay for sex and for favors. They enjoy buying clothes or a convertible or dinner at expensive restaurants. Why? To show off. To maintain youth. To be allowed to live vicariously through the eyes of youth. One guy in his 70s, a wealthy lawyer who is not "out" about his sexual orientation but enjoys the company of young trophy boys. Takes off and flies to Las Vegas or Hawaii with these boys. And then tires of this one particular boy. It happens. So he takes on another boy. But he still continues to take care of the first one. He is in a position where he worried about the possibility of blackmail. It happens...

Blackmail is just one reason to fear ramifications if you're a wealthy businessman who has young trophies in the closet. Being looked down on by peers and shunned by high society are others. A reason not to be concerned, however, is legality. It is not against the law to maintain a Cunananesque relationship, according to Lieutenant Jim Duncan of the San Diego Police Department's vice unit. "Keep in mind that this is something that occurs not only in the gay community but also the heterosexual community," says Duncan. "Repeated solicitation of the same prostitute does not constitute a legal relationship. That's against the law. But the idea of a 'kept' relationship is that it is a long-term solution where one person supports the other. It's not prostitution. It may be money for sex, but usually there is more consideration shown in these long-term relationships." Though perfectly legal, daddy/boy relationships -- quietly more common than most people realize -- are made public in mainstream San Diego about as often as rain showers in the Anza-Borrego Desert.

It's nothing new for older gay men to be attracted to attractive people. If they have power and position, some want a trophy person to make them look good. To a large extent, the gay community puts a high premium on physical appearance. Older people often get overlooked.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Troy on July 08, 2007, 09:17:19 PM
David, who says personal ads opened up a world he never knew existed, thinks he's seen it all. "I've met movie directors," he says, "actors, attorneys, judges, priests, clergypeople ... it's phenomenal what actually goes on." He adds that many of the men he's been involved with are, publicly at least, happily married. Though they risk having their secret lives discovered, his benefactors have dined with him in public many times, David says. "I don't want to sound holier-than-thou, but I can sit at a nice restaurant and exhibit the proper manners. Granted, there are some people who aren't educated or don't have the class to be with these people. But when I put on a coat and tie and sit down for dinner, I don't exactly look like a flaming fag."

Asked what he believes people would think about him if they read about what he does, David pauses.

"My mother knows I have a sponsor," he finally says. "She's okay with it, for the most part. She wishes her son didn't need to rely on anybody for money. She knows I'm going to school. That I'm trying to better myself. I am HIV-negative. I pay all my bills and study hard. And I happen to have somebody -- okay, more than one person -- who is very generous to me. They care about me and want to see me succeed. You can get a different answer on this from me, depending on what day of the week you ask. If somebody is thinking about doing something like what I do ... I would advise against it. It's not a healthy thing for your soul or mind. Whatever situation you get in, you're relying on somebody else for your living. No matter how generous they are, you have to rely on someone besides yourself. It could end at any moment. One or both of my sponsors could croak, and where would I be? I'd be an overaged hooker trying to get back to something."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: height on July 09, 2007, 04:32:08 PM


It's nothing new for older gay men to be attracted to attractive people. If they have power and position, some want a trophy person to make them look good. To a large extent, the gay community puts a high premium on physical appearance. Older people often get overlooked.


The gay community considers you old if you're 30+.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: KC on July 09, 2007, 08:21:20 PM

[...] He adds that many of the men he's been involved with are, publicly at least, happily married. Though they risk having their secret lives discovered [...]


I read some time ago about a gay guy who went ahead and outed his "mentor." Initially he extorted this married man and was prompted to do so for no real reson other than because the "straight" guy was in essence on a power trip. Basically this guy had taken a little bit of money but, understandably, no respect. No affection, no emotional bonds created -- while the married man just wanted sex the gay one craved for attention on his part. He told his lover's wife about their ongoing relationship and totally @ # ! * e d up his life. He even "swallowed down" a couple of his ribs being broken after the married man took revenge on him..in fact, what he did to him was nothing compared to what happened to the other guy. He was definitely not some kind of "big fish" though, otherwise he would not have ended up being extortioned and outed. Nothing like somebody who'd put a contract on someone to take revenge.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: r a m s e y on July 09, 2007, 09:02:44 PM

[...] He adds that many of the men he's been involved with are, publicly at least, happily married. Though they risk having their secret lives discovered [...]


I read some time ago about a gay guy who went ahead and outed his "mentor." Initially he extorted this married man and was prompted to do so for no real reson other than because the "straight" guy was in essence on a power trip. Basically this guy had taken a little bit of money but, understandably, no respect. No affection, no emotional bonds created -- while the married man just wanted sex the gay one craved for attention on his part. He told his lover's wife about their ongoing relationship and totally @ # ! * e d up his life. He even "swallowed down" a couple of his ribs being broken after the married man took revenge on him..in fact, what he did to him was nothing compared to what happened to the other guy. He was definitely not some kind of "big fish" though, otherwise he would not have ended up being extortioned and outed. Nothing like somebody who'd put a contract on someone to take revenge.
 

Extortion is always bad and criminal. It may be profitable at times but so is almost everything else that happens to be criminal. It feels good to have been paid for what might have been some fun too. But this guy might have taken a very dangerous step and possibly underestimated the other guy's desire for revenge. There are a number of people out there who would not hesitate to do much worse things than just break a couple of ribs. They might or might not be forced to face the music later on, but what good would that do to someone?

Evidently this guy enjoyed taking the path of least resistance. I would assume the guy was not getting into any relationship with somebody to give, love, care and respect. I guess the gay guy did not expect that either. He had to be dense to think the married guy would pay and love him at the same time. He would be better off dropping the "straight" dude altogether and find himself a loving gay man who would give him all the love and respect he wanted.

When my ex left me after 7 years he did so in a way that was horribly cruel, without explanation, devious, plotting, mentally torturous. He's a military queer and it would have taken me all but ten minutes to gather up documents, photos, writings, cards, you name it, and mail them all them to his Command, had I wanted to destroy his life. What could possibly compel me to do something so hateful to another person? It doesn't matter what he did to me, that I suffered for years wondering what went wrong, that I lived in fear of his (now beaten) drug problem, that I felt unwanted, unloved and rejected.

How come no mention was made of what this type of behavior did to the innocent people in the other man's life? Did they deserve to be @ # ! * e d as well? What did they do wrong, except perhaps be fooled themselves? This type of behavior is the greatest true evil of all. "I'm the best, I am going to force you to recognize me as the best, and I'm going to use any means, fair or foul, to justify my cause." Yeah, let's "out" all the closet cases. That's a great way to bring all homosexuals to live in harmony. Destroy lives, hurt innocent people, divide, divide, divide. How can a group that's so intent on celebrating diversity finds justification in creating adverse diversity? Aren't gays supposed to look at their (stupid) rainbow flag and love all people? Why are closet cases a detriment to gay people? Aren't they the ones who have to deal with it, isn't up to them to decide how to live their own lives? Why gays are so much better than others?

How come gay people get so riled up when religious fanatics go to *straight* strip clubs, take down license plate numbers of cars in the parking lot, track down the owners, and leave anonymous notes tattling on them at their own homes? We can't believe this kind of thing goes on -- but it does. What the guy did is no better.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: acipe hoc on July 09, 2007, 10:09:24 PM

I read some time ago about a gay guy who went ahead and outed his "mentor." Initially he extorted this married man and was prompted to do so for no real reson other than because the "straight" guy was in essence on a power trip. Basically this guy had taken a little bit of money but, understandably, no respect. No affection, no emotional bonds created -- while the married man just wanted sex the gay one craved for attention on his part. He told his lover's wife about their ongoing relationship and totally @ # ! * e d up his life. He even "swallowed down" a couple of his ribs being broken after the married man took revenge on him..in fact, what he did to him was nothing compared to what happened to the other guy. He was definitely not some kind of "big fish" though, otherwise he would not have ended up being extortioned and outed. Nothing like somebody who'd put a contract on someone to take revenge.
 

Extortion is always bad and criminal. It may be profitable at times but so is almost everything else that happens to be criminal. It feels good to have been paid for what might have been some fun too. But this guy might have taken a very dangerous step and possibly underestimated the other guy's desire for revenge. There are a number of people out there who would not hesitate to do much worse things than just break a couple of ribs. They might or might not be forced to face the music later on, but what good would that do to someone?

Evidently this guy enjoyed taking the path of least resistance. I would assume the guy was not getting into any relationship with somebody to give, love, care and respect. I guess the gay guy did not expect that either. He had to be dense to think the married guy would pay and love him at the same time. He would be better off dropping the "straight" dude altogether and find himself a loving gay man who would give him all the love and respect he wanted.

When my ex left me after 7 years he did so in a way that was horribly cruel, without explanation, devious, plotting, mentally torturous. He's a military queer and it would have taken me all but ten minutes to gather up documents, photos, writings, cards, you name it, and mail them all them to his Command, had I wanted to destroy his life. What could possibly compel me to do something so hateful to another person? It doesn't matter what he did to me, that I suffered for years wondering what went wrong, that I lived in fear of his (now beaten) drug problem, that I felt unwanted, unloved and rejected.

How come no mention was made of what this type of behavior did to the innocent people in the other man's life? Did they deserve to be @ # ! * e d as well? What did they do wrong, except perhaps be fooled themselves? This type of behavior is the greatest true evil of all. "I'm the best, I am going to force you to recognize me as the best, and I'm going to use any means, fair or foul, to justify my cause." Yeah, let's "out" all the closet cases. That's a great way to bring all homosexuals to live in harmony. Destroy lives, hurt innocent people, divide, divide, divide. How can a group that's so intent on celebrating diversity finds justification in creating adverse diversity? Aren't gays supposed to look at their (stupid) rainbow flag and love all people? Why are closet cases a detriment to gay people? Aren't they the ones who have to deal with it, isn't up to them to decide how to live their own lives? Why gays are so much better than others?

How come gay people get so riled up when religious fanatics go to *straight* strip clubs, take down license plate numbers of cars in the parking lot, track down the owners, and leave anonymous notes tattling on them at their own homes? We can't believe this kind of thing goes on -- but it does. What the guy did is no better.


We can not be sure as to what the exact motive of the guy of the story is; nor can we say anything with certainty about the way he presumably addressed his concerns about society's non-acceptance of homosexuality in general. May it be that he did not intend in the first place to get any money for the time spent with the married man? That he, in fact, engaged in a gay relationship with this man, and only later was offered money that he did not refuse? Many young gay people are lured into such kind of relationships; this way the married man did not have to committ emotionally so that he could save his marriage and not be exposed as gay -- you can figure out for yourselves how inclined to pay up such a person is!

On the other hand, it is a fact that only when many high-profile "straight" married men are exposed as gays that the society would come to embrace homosexuality as mainstream. We may pretend that there has to be some other way to make such bisexual males to come out of the closet and accept their sexuality, that we should reshape our mentalities and those of others causing as few casualties as possible in the process. Let's not forget, however, that nothing comes without sacrifice, in fact, a lot of it. For instance, we may be more accepting towards black people today than we were back in the 50s, but do you remember what was necessary to happen in the 60s to bring about the change?

Extortioning and outing are facts of life. They should not be equated with some kind of a gay crusade. In fact, many authors have explored the devastating effects of homosexuals remaining in the closet and have provided intellectual justifications for the practice of outing as a political and journalistic tactic. Michelangelo Signorile, for instance, caused furor in the late 80s and early 90s as he outed billionaire Malcolm Forbes, high-ranking Pentagon official Pete Williams and conservative political activist Phyllis Schlafly's son John. He has advocated that queer Americans come out mentioning the deleterious effects of the closet both on the closeted individual and on society as a whole.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: hiliter on July 10, 2007, 12:14:53 AM

I read some time ago about a gay guy who went ahead and outed his "mentor." Initially he extorted this married man and was prompted to do so for no real reson other than because the "straight" guy was in essence on a power trip. Basically this guy had taken a little bit of money but, understandably, no respect. No affection, no emotional bonds created -- while the married man just wanted sex the gay one craved for attention on his part. He told his lover's wife about their ongoing relationship and totally @ # ! * e d up his life. He even "swallowed down" a couple of his ribs being broken after the married man took revenge on him..in fact, what he did to him was nothing compared to what happened to the other guy. He was definitely not some kind of "big fish" though, otherwise he would not have ended up being extortioned and outed. Nothing like somebody who'd put a contract on someone to take revenge.
 

We can not be sure as to what the exact motive of the guy of the story is; nor can we say anything with certainty about the way he presumably addressed his concerns about society's non-acceptance of homosexuality in general. May it be that he did not intend in the first place to get any money for the time spent with the married man? That he, in fact, engaged in a gay relationship with this man, and only later was offered money that he did not refuse? Many young gay people are lured into such kind of relationships; this way the married man did not have to committ emotionally so that he could save his marriage and not be exposed as gay -- you can figure out for yourselves how inclined to pay up such a person is!

On the other hand, it is a fact that only when many high-profile "straight" married men are exposed as gays that the society would come to embrace homosexuality as mainstream. We may pretend that there has to be some other way to make such bisexual males to come out of the closet and accept their sexuality, that we should reshape our mentalities and those of others causing as few casualties as possible in the process. Let's not forget, however, that nothing comes without sacrifice, in fact, a lot of it. For instance, we may be more accepting towards black people today than we were back in the 50s, but do you remember what was necessary to happen in the 60s to bring about the change?

Extortioning and outing are facts of life. They should not be equated with some kind of a gay crusade. In fact, many authors have explored the devastating effects of homosexuals remaining in the closet and have provided intellectual justifications for the practice of outing as a political and journalistic tactic. Michelangelo Signorile, for instance, caused furor in the late 80s and early 90s as he outed billionaire Malcolm Forbes, high-ranking Pentagon official Pete Williams and conservative political activist Phyllis Schlafly's son John. He has advocated that queer Americans come out mentioning the deleterious effects of the closet both on the closeted individual and on society as a whole.


I do not think this guy did it in order to make things better for the gay married men after they are forced to come out of the closet and have a more comprehensive understanding of their sexuality..

I also do not believe he really needed to go ahead and expose the married man, were money not a factor in his decision to out him. He could have simply moved on -- there will be always enough stupid people to pay a lot of money to have gay sex secretly.

As to the "power trip" thing I'd simply remind the reader that the guy was P-A-I-D and although sometimes it hurts to be treated the way he may have been treated, he'd be better off moving on and saving himself the pain of broken ribs! After all, no matter what you may do -- even if you give your own life -- you are not going to save the world! While it is true that the society itself would be at a profit when married guys are exposed as gay, regardless of the eventual casualties, it is a fact that this way of thinking leaves one poor, predisposing such a person to victimization, basically making a stupid martyr out of someone.

They do not say in vain, "God takes care of fools, drunks and our society."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mle on July 13, 2007, 03:41:22 AM

How come gay people get so riled up when religious fanatics go to *straight* strip clubs, take down license plate numbers of cars in the parking lot, track down the owners, and leave anonymous notes tattling on them at their own homes? We can't believe this kind of thing goes on -- but it does. What the guy did is no better.


Interesting scenario, ramsey! :)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: croatan on July 13, 2007, 10:18:44 PM

Extortion is always bad and criminal. It may be profitable at times but so is almost everything else that happens to be criminal. It feels good to have been paid for what might have been some fun too. But this guy might have taken a very dangerous step and possibly underestimated the other guy\'s desire for revenge. There are a number of people out there who would not hesitate to do much worse things than just break a couple of ribs. They might or might not be forced to face the music later on, but what good would that do to someone?

Evidently this guy enjoyed taking the path of least resistance. I would assume the guy was not getting into any relationship with somebody to give, love, care and respect. I guess the gay guy did not expect that either. He had to be dense to think the married guy would pay and love him at the same time. He would be better off dropping the \"straight\" dude altogether and find himself a loving gay man who would give him all the love and respect he wanted.


Exactly, this is leeching!


How come gay people get so riled up when religious fanatics go to *straight* strip clubs, take down license plate numbers of cars in the parking lot, track down the owners, and leave anonymous notes tattling on them at their own homes? We can\'t believe this kind of thing goes on -- but it does. What the guy did is no better.


While this is truly gay activism!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: timeo Danaos on July 14, 2007, 02:01:25 AM

[...] It is not against the law to maintain a Cunananesque relationship, according to Lieutenant Jim Duncan of the San Diego Police Department's vice unit. "Keep in mind that this is something that occurs not only in the gay community but also the heterosexual community," says Duncan. "Repeated solicitation of the same prostitute does not constitute a legal relationship. That's against the law. But the idea of a 'kept' relationship is that it is a long-term solution where one person supports the other. It's not prostitution. It may be money for sex, but usually there is more consideration shown in these long-term relationships." [...]


What a jerk!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mattachino on July 14, 2007, 07:10:52 PM
Quote

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: guessy on July 16, 2007, 07:25:31 PM

Extortion is always bad and criminal. It may be profitable at times but so is almost everything else that happens to be criminal. It feels good to have been paid for what might have been some fun too. But this guy might have taken a very dangerous step and possibly underestimated the other guy's desire for revenge. There are a number of people out there who would not hesitate to do much worse things than just break a couple of ribs. They might or might not be forced to face the music later on, but what good would that do to someone?

Evidently this guy enjoyed taking the path of least resistance. I would assume the guy was not getting into any relationship with somebody to give, love, care and respect. I guess the gay guy did not expect that either. He had to be dense to think the married guy would pay and love him at the same time. He would be better off dropping the 'straight' dude altogether and find himself a loving gay man who would give him all the love and respect he wanted.


Exactly, this is leeching!


Couldn't agree more! Such cases are really troubling! I read about a guy who extortioned a married man who was cheating on his wife. He wrote to the subject and told him to get the amount in hundreds, so that there would not be too many dollar bills. He told him to go into a bookstore and stuff the bills inside a book. They had agreed before which book would be. It was an unknown author, just some crap. He went into the store and bought the book.

Assuming the guy did not much care about his marriage and alerted the police -- and the latter was waiting in the store for him -- he had such a potential problem taken care of this way: if cops were waiting for him to buy the book (as he had to be the blackmailer) there would simply not be a sure fire way for them to prove that he was not just an unlucky guy who wanted to buy this certain book. They would probably know that he was the bad guy -- but they had to prove it, he didn't have to prove he was not the culprit. No prosecutor on earth would have a realistic chance of convicting him, even if he'd eventually be arrested by the police. 
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: horus on July 17, 2007, 05:23:48 PM

(http://images.askmen.com/imagesmusician/BritneySpears/britney_spears_150.JPG)

LOS ANGELES -- An appearance in family court sought by Kevin Federline amid a child custody dispute with Britney Spears was canceled Thursday after the pop star entered a rehabilitation program. Spears has gone into the Promises Malibu drug and alcohol rehabilitation center, her manager, Larry Rudolph, confirmed in an e-mail to The Associated Press. He gave no details. The TV entertainment magazines "Extra" and "The Insider" and the Web site TMZ said Spears' mother, Lynne Spears, drove her daughter to the center, which she had reportedly been in and out of earlier in the week.

The center specializes in treating drug and alcohol abuse. Last week, Spears sought treatment at a center in the Caribbean but also checked out after a day, according to various reports. Spears and Federline reportedly agreed Wednesday night that he would keep their two young sons while Spears was in rehabilitation, a program that takes between 30 and 45 days.

(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/news/070226/britney_bald1_180.jpg)

Last Friday, Spears arrived at a San Fernando Valley hair salon, grabbed an electric razor and shaved her head bald. Afterward, she visited a tattoo parlor, where she had a pair of red-and-pink lips inked onto her wrist. Then she went out clubbing with friends before apparently checking into Promises. Whether her recent behavior will damage her recording career is hard to say, said Vibe magazine music editor Jon Caramanica.

Spears, whose 1999 debut album, "... Baby One More Time," sold more than 13 million copies, hasn't released a new album since 2003. Before her troubles began she had promised one this year, and Caramanica suggested that might be a good outlet to address what she's going through. "I think the best thing she could do is make an album that engages with this subject matter in some way," he said. "Not only to have a good album but to have an album that's a declaration of emotional health."


She checked out of rehab I heard. Since filing for divorce from Kevin Federline last November, Spears draw criticism for her drinking, partying and sloppy appearance. She's been photographed intoxicated at nightclubs, carried out of a Las Vegas club on New Year's Eve after collapsing. Reps blamed the collapse on exhaustion. A former assistant of Spears' wrote on a gossip blog that Spears was headed for "rock bottom" and was in desperate need of help.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: lex parsimoniae on July 20, 2007, 06:56:17 PM

It's really a shame! I mean, how could people be so stupid in today's America and go ahead and reelect a hypocrite like him?


Excuse me, aren't these type of things exactly the ones for which one becomes a senator/congressman/elected official? I mean, that's what having power means, to be able to do things for which "simple" people go to jail if they do them -- go with children, kill, whatever!


I am assuming you're being sarcastic; if not, it's a shame you go to law school (if you really do)!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: hephaistion on July 20, 2007, 07:06:49 PM

[...] "Keep in mind that this is something that occurs not only in the gay community but also the heterosexual community," says Duncan. "Repeated solicitation of the same prostitute does not constitute a legal relationship. That's against the law. But the idea of a 'kept' relationship is that it is a long-term solution where one person supports the other. It's not prostitution. It may be money for sex, but usually there is more consideration shown in these long-term relationships." [...]


Is he using the term "consideration" in the legal sense? I cannot really tell...
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: under review on July 23, 2007, 01:58:11 AM

Couldn't agree more! Such cases are really troubling! I read about a guy who extortioned a married man who was cheating on his wife. He wrote to the subject and told him to get the amount in hundreds, so that there would not be too many dollar bills. He told him to go into a bookstore and stuff the bills inside a book. They had agreed before which book would be. It was an unknown author, just some crap. He went into the store and bought the book.

Assuming the guy did not much care about his marriage and alerted the police -- and the latter was waiting in the store for him -- he had such a potential problem taken care of this way: if cops were waiting for him to buy the book (as he had to be the blackmailer) there would simply not be a sure fire way for them to prove that he was not just an unlucky guy who wanted to buy this certain book. They would probably know that he was the bad guy -- but they had to prove it, he didn't have to prove he was not the culprit. No prosecutor on earth would have a realistic chance of convicting him, even if he'd eventually be arrested by the police. 
 

What a shame!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: c a u s u a l on July 24, 2007, 05:56:27 AM

[...] "Keep in mind that this is something that occurs not only in the gay community but also the heterosexual community," says Duncan. "Repeated solicitation of the same prostitute does not constitute a legal relationship. That's against the law. But the idea of a 'kept' relationship is that it is a long-term solution where one person supports the other. It's not prostitution. It may be money for sex, but usually there is more consideration shown in these long-term relationships." [...]


Is he using the term "consideration" in the legal sense? I cannot really tell...


It's conceivable he is; although we all know that cops are basically dumbasses, as a police lieutenant he may know just a little bit about law and the like.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: horwitz on July 26, 2007, 03:48:01 AM

He was definitely not some kind of "big fish" though [...] Nothing like somebody who'd put a contract on someone to take revenge.


??
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: spellit on November 03, 2007, 09:38:13 AM

Looks like Madonna has smarter advisors/pr people!


Don't forget that Madonna herself is a helluva lot smarter than Spears! The newest additions to the tarot deck? Here it is:

(http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/da17c11fcb.jpg)

It's loosely based on the High Priestess card in the regular tarot, which in turn is loosely based on the "Mother of God" myth appearing in Christianity as the Virgin Mary. Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee.

In her lap is Britney Spears, whom if you recall Madonna kissed on the mouth at that awards show some years back, and who used many of the media-sex-virgin-whore tactics Madonna pioneered to build her own career. Britney's shirt says "Cult Member" which is a shirt Madonna "ironically" wore outside her Kabbalah center to gain media attention. The Madonna of the trademark pointy boobs and headset era is chosen. Her headset connects to the boombox at her feet -- since creative sound/energy is the basis of her strength. At the base of her throne are the words "Kabbalistic" which is from a patented t-shirt line she has. And the title of Britney's song "I'm a slave 4 u." Behind her is the "Kabbalistic" Tree of Life. The wording is in Japanese, since her effort to popularize the Kabbalah is trying to be exotic just for the sake of being hip. Enclosing her from the right and left sides are two pillars which are loosely based on the ones from the High Priestess card. In that card, the "B" and "J" stand for Boaz and Jachin, which were the names of the two pillars of Solomon's Temple (these are also important to Masonic tradition). In our updated terminology though, "B" and "J" should be read together as "BJ" standing for "Blow Job." Also, the BJ pillars (phalluses?) enclose the black area behind her into a classic coffin shape. The idea being the link between sex and death. In this case also, The Tree of Life behind her is also literally the matrix from which new life springs.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: lochies on November 03, 2007, 11:13:29 AM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee.


Don't forget that it wasn't her midriff that freaked out folks and inspired girls to start chopping shirts into halter tops; it was the power of her sexuality, and her belief in it, the way she acknowledged it and controlled it, the way she self-consciously toyed with it. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: a l g o l on November 04, 2007, 11:37:12 AM

It's really a shame! I mean, how could people be so stupid in today's America and go ahead and reelect a hypocrite like him?


Excuse me, aren't these type of things exactly the ones for which one becomes a senator/congressman/elected official? I mean, that's what having power means, to be able to do things for which "simple" people go to jail if they do them -- go with children, kill, whatever!


I am assuming you're being sarcastic; if not, it's a shame you go to law school (if you really do)!


??
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: by extension on November 09, 2007, 11:56:22 AM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee.


Don't forget that it wasn't her midriff that freaked out folks and inspired girls to start chopping shirts into halter tops; it was the power of her sexuality, and her belief in it, the way she acknowledged it and controlled it, the way she self-consciously toyed with it. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


But of course, lochies, that's what spellit was saying, you did not have to repeat it once again! :)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Inis on November 24, 2007, 12:05:26 PM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee.


Don't forget that it wasn't her midriff that freaked out folks and inspired girls to start chopping shirts into halter tops; it was the power of her sexuality, and her belief in it, the way she acknowledged it and controlled it, the way she self-consciously toyed with it. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


But of course, lochies, that's what spellit was saying, you did not have to repeat it once again! :)


Well, by extension, they say repetition is the mother of learning; case in which, the question appears to be who would the father be? :)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: ² on November 24, 2007, 01:23:46 PM

But of course, lochies, that's what spellit was saying, you did not have to repeat it once again! :)


Well, by extension, they say repetition is the mother of learning; case in which, the question appears to be who would the father be? :)


Boredom, of course, Inis, repetition can be the father of boredom as well as the mother of learning :)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: wordsmith on December 05, 2007, 07:04:37 AM

But of course, lochies, that's what spellit was saying, you did not have to repeat it once again! :)


Well, by extension, they say repetition is the mother of learning; case in which, the question appears to be who would the father be? :)


Boredom, of course, Inis, repetition can be the father of boredom as well as the mother of learning :)


;)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: anon on December 19, 2007, 05:13:13 PM

1.  King Alexander the Great of Macedonia, 336-323 BC
2.  King Demetrius Poliorcetes of Macedonia, 294-288 BC
3.  King Antiochus I of Macedonia, 280-261 BC
4.  King Antigonus II Gonatas of Macedonia, 276-239 BC

[...]


Did you hear recently more on the ongoing, idiotic conflict between Greece and Macedonia? I mean, Jesus, it's crystal clear, e.g., Alexander the Great was Greek -- FYROM should not use the name "Macedonia."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: marygo on December 25, 2007, 10:21:42 AM

1.  King Alexander the Great of Macedonia, 336-323 BC
2.  King Demetrius Poliorcetes of Macedonia, 294-288 BC
3.  King Antiochus I of Macedonia, 280-261 BC
4.  King Antigonus II Gonatas of Macedonia, 276-239 BC

[...]


Did you hear recently more on the ongoing, idiotic conflict between Greece and Macedonia? I mean, Jesus, it's crystal clear, e.g., Alexander the Great was Greek -- FYROM should not use the name "Macedonia."


Macedonia is just a word -- should it really matter this much to Greece nowadays? Just a thought, you know...
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: 39729 on January 08, 2008, 12:14:07 PM
Well, marygo, words have meanings...sometimes very specific ones...
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: :| on January 17, 2008, 01:07:43 PM
What if Macedonia changes its name -- will Greece start calling itself Macedonia?
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: ysa on January 24, 2008, 01:27:17 PM

What if Macedonia changes its name -- will Greece start calling itself Macedonia?


It's not that simple -- do you know that Macedonia's major airport is called Skopje Alexander The Great Airport?
Title: Don't call them by my name... say FYROM
Post by: episio on January 31, 2008, 01:21:43 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: resume on February 01, 2008, 11:31:47 AM

It's really a shame! I mean, how could people be so stupid in today's America and go ahead and reelect a hypocrite like him?


Excuse me, aren't these type of things exactly the ones for which one becomes a senator/congressman/elected official? I mean, that's what having power means, to be able to do things for which "simple" people go to jail if they do them -- go with children, kill, whatever!


I am assuming you're being sarcastic; if not, it's a shame you go to law school (if you really do)!


I wouldn't really say it's a shame s/he goes to law school (if s/he really does) -- while there are many people in law school who would cleverly get that message through by means of sarcasm, the majority of law students wouldn't even bother to apply any sarcasm at all when stating that idea.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: al so on February 05, 2008, 09:42:59 AM


Excuse me, aren't these type of things exactly the ones for which one becomes a senator/congressman/elected official? I mean, that's what having power means, to be able to do things for which "simple" people go to jail if they do them -- go with children, kill, whatever!


I am assuming you're being sarcastic; if not, it's a shame you go to law school (if you really do)!


I wouldn't really say it's a shame s/he goes to law school (if s/he really does) -- while there are many people in law school who would cleverly get that message through by means of sarcasm, the majority of law students wouldn't even bother to apply any sarcasm at all when stating that idea.


Trying to be funny, resume? Sarcastically funny?
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Olay on February 07, 2008, 12:10:07 PM

[...]People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess.[...]

hahaha ;)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: GSSG on February 08, 2008, 12:06:36 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: phoenix on February 10, 2008, 09:17:06 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related


Rafaella is indeed one of a kind, a great artist!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Hera on February 10, 2008, 10:13:40 AM

[...] leave the sex offender games to the radicals.
 

How about this kind of "game"..

(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4285/20693267op1.jpg)
Snay works driving trucks for a yacht dealership in Mendon. He won the $10 million from a $20 scratch ticket purchased at Cumberland Farms in Hopedale. But the lottery winnings also come with unwanted publicity. "He was concerned, but there's not much you can do about it," said Snay's lawyer Joseph M. Fabricotti. "We talked about it and he understood this was one of the repercussions that could happen." Snay's record of sexual assaults dates back to 1974. He has been convicted six times of indecent assault and battery in Massachusetts. Level 3 offenders are considered the most dangerous and the most likely to commit another crime.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: C o c o on March 19, 2008, 07:57:06 AM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


In certain so-called primitive people, a person other than the husband deflowers the fiancée. This practice is followed in order to protect the husband from danger. The bleeding that results from the loss of virginity is associated with physical wounds and death. In a number of so-called primitives, all of sexual life is wrapped in taboos. The woman is feared because of the assumed loss of virility that occurs through physical contact with her and this activates the fear of castration, especially as a result of her first sexual intercourse. But these general considerations may be inadequate. The analysis of female frigidity, however, leads us to consider such other factors as the Oedipus complex, penis envy, the desire to obtain a child from the father as reparation, and hostility towards any man who appears as a poor substitute for the true object of this ancient desire. Thus the husband who avoids deflowering his wife acts thus because he fears losing his penis and, like Holofernes, his life.
Title: Droit de seigneur
Post by: multifarious on March 22, 2008, 03:03:28 PM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


In certain so-called primitive people, a person other than the husband deflowers the fiancée. This practice is followed in order to protect the husband from danger. The bleeding that results from the loss of virginity is associated with physical wounds and death. In a number of so-called primitives, all of sexual life is wrapped in taboos. The woman is feared because of the assumed loss of virility that occurs through physical contact with her and this activates the fear of castration, especially as a result of her first sexual intercourse. But these general considerations may be inadequate. The analysis of female frigidity, however, leads us to consider such other factors as the Oedipus complex, penis envy, the desire to obtain a child from the father as reparation, and hostility towards any man who appears as a poor substitute for the true object of this ancient desire. Thus the husband who avoids deflowering his wife acts thus because he fears losing his penis and, like Holofernes, his life.


Droit de seigneur

Throughout history and in all stages of culture great emphasis has been laid on virginity. Sometimes a high positive value is set upon it as when the husband insists on his wife coming to him as a virgin, although, paradoxically, amongst certain peoples he must not have intercourse with the virgin bride, defloration and the first act of coitus being ritually performed by another. At other times virginity possesses what might be called a negative value.

Droit de seigneur, French for the lord's right, is a term now popularly used to describe a legal right allowing the lord of an estate to deflower the estate's virgins. It is also spelled droit du seigneur, but native French prefer the term droit de cuissage or droit de jambage. A related term is ius primæ noctis (also jus primae noctis), Latin for law (or right) of the first night. Droit de seigneur is often interpreted today as a synonym for ius primae noctis, although it originally referred to a number of other rights as well, including hunting, taxation, and farming.

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/903/ledroitduseigneurwassilot8.jpg)

The existence of a "right of the first night" in the Middle Ages was a disputed topic in the 19th century. Although most historians today would agree that there is no authentic proof of the actual exercise of the custom in the Middle Ages, disagreement continues about the origin, the meaning, and the development of the widespread popular belief in this alleged right and the actual prevalence of symbolic gestures referring to this right. In fact the ius primae noctis was, in the European late medieval context, a widespread popular belief in an ancient privilege of the lord of a manor to share the bed with his peasants' newlywed brides on their wedding nights. Symbolic gestures, reflecting this belief, were developed by the lords and used as humiliating signs of superiority over the dependent peasants in a time of disappearing status differences. The origin of this popular belief is difficult to trace. In the 16th century, Boece referred to the decree of the Scottish king Evenus III that "the lord of the ground shall have the maidenhead of all virgins dwelling on the same". Legend has it that Saint Margaret procured the replacement of jus primae noctis with a bridal tax called merchet. King Evenus III did not exist, and Boece included much clearly fictional material in his account. In literature from the 13th and 14th centuries and in customary law texts of the 15th and 16th centuries, jus primae noctis is also closely related to specific marriage payments of (formerly) unfree people. There is good reason to assume that this relation goes back to the early medieval period and has its roots in the legal condition of unfree people and Gaelic marriage customs.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: dru on May 15, 2008, 11:56:27 AM

LOL ayn, I know what ya mean! ;)


We all know what s/he means, Troy! And it's not just us who know about the whole matter -- in details! If we still do not say or do anything, it's not because we don't know...
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: inner on May 22, 2008, 12:27:20 PM

I read some time ago about a gay guy who went ahead and outed his "mentor." Initially he extorted this married man and was prompted to do so for no real reson other than because the "straight" guy was in essence on a power trip. Basically this guy had taken a little bit of money but, understandably, no respect. No affection, no emotional bonds created -- while the married man just wanted sex the gay one craved for attention on his part. He told his lover's wife about their ongoing relationship and totally @ # ! * e d up his life. He even "swallowed down" a couple of his ribs being broken after the married man took revenge on him..in fact, what he did to him was nothing compared to what happened to the other guy. He was definitely not some kind of "big fish" though, otherwise he would not have ended up being extortioned and outed. Nothing like somebody who'd put a contract on someone to take revenge.
 

We can not be sure as to what the exact motive of the guy of the story is; nor can we say anything with certainty about the way he presumably addressed his concerns about society's non-acceptance of homosexuality in general. May it be that he did not intend in the first place to get any money for the time spent with the married man? That he, in fact, engaged in a gay relationship with this man, and only later was offered money that he did not refuse? Many young gay people are lured into such kind of relationships; this way the married man did not have to committ emotionally so that he could save his marriage and not be exposed as gay -- you can figure out for yourselves how inclined to pay up such a person is!

On the other hand, it is a fact that only when many high-profile "straight" married men are exposed as gays that the society would come to embrace homosexuality as mainstream. We may pretend that there has to be some other way to make such bisexual males to come out of the closet and accept their sexuality, that we should reshape our mentalities and those of others causing as few casualties as possible in the process. Let's not forget, however, that nothing comes without sacrifice, in fact, a lot of it. For instance, we may be more accepting towards black people today than we were back in the 50s, but do you remember what was necessary to happen in the 60s to bring about the change?

Extortioning and outing are facts of life. They should not be equated with some kind of a gay crusade. In fact, many authors have explored the devastating effects of homosexuals remaining in the closet and have provided intellectual justifications for the practice of outing as a political and journalistic tactic. Michelangelo Signorile, for instance, caused furor in the late 80s and early 90s as he outed billionaire Malcolm Forbes, high-ranking Pentagon official Pete Williams and conservative political activist Phyllis Schlafly's son John. He has advocated that queer Americans come out mentioning the deleterious effects of the closet both on the closeted individual and on society as a whole.


I do not think this guy did it in order to make things better for the gay married men after they are forced to come out of the closet and have a more comprehensive understanding of their sexuality..

I also do not believe he really needed to go ahead and expose the married man, were money not a factor in his decision to out him. He could have simply moved on -- there will be always enough stupid people to pay a lot of money to have gay sex secretly.

As to the "power trip" thing I'd simply remind the reader that the guy was P-A-I-D and although sometimes it hurts to be treated the way he may have been treated, he'd be better off moving on and saving himself the pain of broken ribs! After all, no matter what you may do -- even if you give your own life -- you are not going to save the world! While it is true that the society itself would be at a profit when married guys are exposed as gay, regardless of the eventual casualties, it is a fact that this way of thinking leaves one poor, predisposing such a person to victimization, basically making a stupid martyr out of someone.

They do not say in vain, "God takes care of fools, drunks and our society."


Interesting POV, hiliter!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: P a n d o r a on June 05, 2008, 12:41:48 PM

I read some time ago about a gay guy who went ahead and outed his "mentor." Initially he extorted this married man and was prompted to do so for no real reson other than because the "straight" guy was in essence on a power trip. Basically this guy had taken a little bit of money but, understandably, no respect. No affection, no emotional bonds created -- while the married man just wanted sex the gay one craved for attention on his part. He told his lover's wife about their ongoing relationship and totally @ # ! * e d up his life. He even "swallowed down" a couple of his ribs being broken after the married man took revenge on him..in fact, what he did to him was nothing compared to what happened to the other guy. He was definitely not some kind of "big fish" though, otherwise he would not have ended up being extortioned and outed. Nothing like somebody who'd put a contract on someone to take revenge.
 

We can not be sure as to what the exact motive of the guy of the story is; nor can we say anything with certainty about the way he presumably addressed his concerns about society's non-acceptance of homosexuality in general. May it be that he did not intend in the first place to get any money for the time spent with the married man? That he, in fact, engaged in a gay relationship with this man, and only later was offered money that he did not refuse? Many young gay people are lured into such kind of relationships; this way the married man did not have to committ emotionally so that he could save his marriage and not be exposed as gay -- you can figure out for yourselves how inclined to pay up such a person is!

On the other hand, it is a fact that only when many high-profile "straight" married men are exposed as gays that the society would come to embrace homosexuality as mainstream. We may pretend that there has to be some other way to make such bisexual males to come out of the closet and accept their sexuality, that we should reshape our mentalities and those of others causing as few casualties as possible in the process. Let's not forget, however, that nothing comes without sacrifice, in fact, a lot of it. For instance, we may be more accepting towards black people today than we were back in the 50s, but do you remember what was necessary to happen in the 60s to bring about the change?

Extortioning and outing are facts of life. They should not be equated with some kind of a gay crusade. In fact, many authors have explored the devastating effects of homosexuals remaining in the closet and have provided intellectual justifications for the practice of outing as a political and journalistic tactic. Michelangelo Signorile, for instance, caused furor in the late 80s and early 90s as he outed billionaire Malcolm Forbes, high-ranking Pentagon official Pete Williams and conservative political activist Phyllis Schlafly's son John. He has advocated that queer Americans come out mentioning the deleterious effects of the closet both on the closeted individual and on society as a whole.


I do not think this guy did it in order to make things better for the gay married men after they are forced to come out of the closet and have a more comprehensive understanding of their sexuality..

I also do not believe he really needed to go ahead and expose the married man, were money not a factor in his decision to out him. He could have simply moved on -- there will be always enough stupid people to pay a lot of money to have gay sex secretly.

As to the "power trip" thing I'd simply remind the reader that the guy was P-A-I-D and although sometimes it hurts to be treated the way he may have been treated, he'd be better off moving on and saving himself the pain of broken ribs! After all, no matter what you may do -- even if you give your own life -- you are not going to save the world! While it is true that the society itself would be at a profit when married guys are exposed as gay, regardless of the eventual casualties, it is a fact that this way of thinking leaves one poor, predisposing such a person to victimization, basically making a stupid martyr out of someone.

They do not say in vain, "God takes care of fools, drunks and our society."


Ha - funny avatar dru!
Title: Re: Droit de seigneur
Post by: b e s a m e on June 25, 2008, 03:25:43 PM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


In certain so-called primitive people, a person other than the husband deflowers the fiancée. This practice is followed in order to protect the husband from danger. The bleeding that results from the loss of virginity is associated with physical wounds and death. In a number of so-called primitives, all of sexual life is wrapped in taboos. The woman is feared because of the assumed loss of virility that occurs through physical contact with her and this activates the fear of castration, especially as a result of her first sexual intercourse. But these general considerations may be inadequate. The analysis of female frigidity, however, leads us to consider such other factors as the Oedipus complex, penis envy, the desire to obtain a child from the father as reparation, and hostility towards any man who appears as a poor substitute for the true object of this ancient desire. Thus the husband who avoids deflowering his wife acts thus because he fears losing his penis and, like Holofernes, his life.


Droit de seigneur

Throughout history and in all stages of culture great emphasis has been laid on virginity. Sometimes a high positive value is set upon it as when the husband insists on his wife coming to him as a virgin, although, paradoxically, amongst certain peoples he must not have intercourse with the virgin bride, defloration and the first act of coitus being ritually performed by another. At other times virginity possesses what might be called a negative value.

Droit de seigneur, French for the lord's right, is a term now popularly used to describe a legal right allowing the lord of an estate to deflower the estate's virgins. It is also spelled droit du seigneur, but native French prefer the term droit de cuissage or droit de jambage. A related term is ius primæ noctis (also jus primae noctis), Latin for law (or right) of the first night. Droit de seigneur is often interpreted today as a synonym for ius primae noctis, although it originally referred to a number of other rights as well, including hunting, taxation, and farming.

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/903/ledroitduseigneurwassilot8.jpg)

The existence of a "right of the first night" in the Middle Ages was a disputed topic in the 19th century. Although most historians today would agree that there is no authentic proof of the actual exercise of the custom in the Middle Ages, disagreement continues about the origin, the meaning, and the development of the widespread popular belief in this alleged right and the actual prevalence of symbolic gestures referring to this right. In fact the ius primae noctis was, in the European late medieval context, a widespread popular belief in an ancient privilege of the lord of a manor to share the bed with his peasants' newlywed brides on their wedding nights. Symbolic gestures, reflecting this belief, were developed by the lords and used as humiliating signs of superiority over the dependent peasants in a time of disappearing status differences. The origin of this popular belief is difficult to trace. In the 16th century, Boece referred to the decree of the Scottish king Evenus III that "the lord of the ground shall have the maidenhead of all virgins dwelling on the same". Legend has it that Saint Margaret procured the replacement of jus primae noctis with a bridal tax called merchet. King Evenus III did not exist, and Boece included much clearly fictional material in his account. In literature from the 13th and 14th centuries and in customary law texts of the 15th and 16th centuries, jus primae noctis is also closely related to specific marriage payments of (formerly) unfree people. There is good reason to assume that this relation goes back to the early medieval period and has its roots in the legal condition of unfree people and Gaelic marriage customs.


Hahaha - you're soooooooooooooooo funny, multi!

I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YA MEAN! ;)
Title: Re: Droit de seigneur
Post by: mayo on June 27, 2008, 10:50:35 AM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


In certain so-called primitive people, a person other than the husband deflowers the fiancée. This practice is followed in order to protect the husband from danger. The bleeding that results from the loss of virginity is associated with physical wounds and death. In a number of so-called primitives, all of sexual life is wrapped in taboos. The woman is feared because of the assumed loss of virility that occurs through physical contact with her and this activates the fear of castration, especially as a result of her first sexual intercourse. But these general considerations may be inadequate. The analysis of female frigidity, however, leads us to consider such other factors as the Oedipus complex, penis envy, the desire to obtain a child from the father as reparation, and hostility towards any man who appears as a poor substitute for the true object of this ancient desire. Thus the husband who avoids deflowering his wife acts thus because he fears losing his penis and, like Holofernes, his life.


Droit de seigneur

Throughout history and in all stages of culture great emphasis has been laid on virginity. Sometimes a high positive value is set upon it as when the husband insists on his wife coming to him as a virgin, although, paradoxically, amongst certain peoples he must not have intercourse with the virgin bride, defloration and the first act of coitus being ritually performed by another. At other times virginity possesses what might be called a negative value.

Droit de seigneur, French for the lord's right, is a term now popularly used to describe a legal right allowing the lord of an estate to deflower the estate's virgins. It is also spelled droit du seigneur, but native French prefer the term droit de cuissage or droit de jambage. A related term is ius primæ noctis (also jus primae noctis), Latin for law (or right) of the first night. Droit de seigneur is often interpreted today as a synonym for ius primae noctis, although it originally referred to a number of other rights as well, including hunting, taxation, and farming.

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/903/ledroitduseigneurwassilot8.jpg)

The existence of a "right of the first night" in the Middle Ages was a disputed topic in the 19th century. Although most historians today would agree that there is no authentic proof of the actual exercise of the custom in the Middle Ages, disagreement continues about the origin, the meaning, and the development of the widespread popular belief in this alleged right and the actual prevalence of symbolic gestures referring to this right. In fact the ius primae noctis was, in the European late medieval context, a widespread popular belief in an ancient privilege of the lord of a manor to share the bed with his peasants' newlywed brides on their wedding nights. Symbolic gestures, reflecting this belief, were developed by the lords and used as humiliating signs of superiority over the dependent peasants in a time of disappearing status differences. The origin of this popular belief is difficult to trace. In the 16th century, Boece referred to the decree of the Scottish king Evenus III that "the lord of the ground shall have the maidenhead of all virgins dwelling on the same". Legend has it that Saint Margaret procured the replacement of jus primae noctis with a bridal tax called merchet. King Evenus III did not exist, and Boece included much clearly fictional material in his account. In literature from the 13th and 14th centuries and in customary law texts of the 15th and 16th centuries, jus primae noctis is also closely related to specific marriage payments of (formerly) unfree people. There is good reason to assume that this relation goes back to the early medieval period and has its roots in the legal condition of unfree people and Gaelic marriage customs.


Hahaha - you're soooooooooooooooo funny, multi!

I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YA MEAN! ;)


Great handle, besame! I love that song!

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1257/748742882_d3dffce8a4.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVboAdTF0Dw
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: brag on July 04, 2008, 12:49:13 PM
I swear I know what's happening on this board -- it's really so strange! And a hell of a lot funny as well!

HAHAHA!!!! ;)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: QIR on July 19, 2008, 03:52:57 PM
??
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: doublevision on July 26, 2008, 06:29:55 PM
What a shame - what these congressmen do is pure porn just like this one:

http://www.menatplay.com/tour?act=wmv_preview&video_id=227
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: thegayismine on July 28, 2008, 09:10:09 AM

It's really a shame! I mean, how could people be so stupid in today's America and go ahead and reelect a hypocrite like him?


Excuse me, aren't these type of things exactly the ones for which one becomes a senator/congressman/elected official? I mean, that's what having power means, to be able to do things for which "simple" people go to jail if they do them -- go with children, kill, whatever!


I am assuming you're being sarcastic; if not, it's a shame you go to law school (if you really do)!


I wouldn't really say it's a shame s/he goes to law school (if s/he really does) -- while there are many people in law school who would cleverly get that message through by means of sarcasm, the majority of law students wouldn't even bother to apply any sarcasm at all when stating that idea.
 

How about yourself, resume? Do you care to apply "moderation" and diplomacy when talking? 'Cuz it seems to me you're being quite bold :)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: schel on July 30, 2008, 09:57:34 AM
What a shame - what these congressmen do is pure porn just like this one:

http://www.menatplay.com/tour?act=wmv_preview&video_id=227


You could have left out the link..
Title: Diamonds Are Girl's Best Friends
Post by: zile on July 31, 2008, 11:35:09 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related


Rafaella is indeed one of a kind, a great artist!


No kidding, phoenix! Take a look at her interpretation of a piece traditionally thought of as "belonging" to Marilyn Monroe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN6rIAbBASU&feature=related
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: se on August 02, 2008, 09:59:37 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella is indeed one of a kind, a great artist!


No kidding, phoenix! Take a look at her interpretation of a piece traditionally thought of as "belonging" to Marilyn Monroe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN6rIAbBASU&feature=related


Only if they satisfy the requierments

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9571/83130829cp5.jpg

(http://www.diamonds.com/images/4cs_balance.gif)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: just sex on August 07, 2008, 08:03:07 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related



No kidding, phoenix! Take a look at her interpretation of a piece traditionally thought of as "belonging" to Marilyn Monroe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN6rIAbBASU&feature=related


Only if they satisfy the requierments

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9571/83130829cp5.jpg

(http://www.diamonds.com/images/4cs_balance.gif)


Hahaha, you're so funny, se! ;)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: driven on August 08, 2008, 02:30:57 PM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee.


Don't forget that it wasn't her midriff that freaked out folks and inspired girls to start chopping shirts into halter tops; it was the power of her sexuality, and her belief in it, the way she acknowledged it and controlled it, the way she self-consciously toyed with it. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


Really cool!

It rests to be seen in what terms she'll define herself now she's getting older!
Title: The Leo Diamond ®
Post by: miXin on August 13, 2008, 05:29:53 PM

Only if they satisfy the requierments

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9571/83130829cp5.jpg

(http://www.diamonds.com/images/4cs_balance.gif)




(http://www.theleodiamond.com/Images/logo-embossing.jpg)

The first diamond ever measured and certified for superior brilliance and beauty.

(http://www.theleodiamond.com/Images/3-stone-on-grey.jpg)

The patented Leo Diamond is truly a diamond like no other. It is designed and handcrafted by the skilled diamond artisans at Leo Schachter, a company that has built its reputation over four generations as one of the world's leading manufacturers of fine diamonds.

(http://www.theleodiamond.com/Images/3-views.gif)

For over half a century, Leo Schachter has quietly provided its handcrafted diamonds to the most elegant shops of Fifth Avenue, to the fashionable boutiques of Rodeo Drive, and to the jewelers who adorn the highest social circles in London, Paris and Italy. Only within the last few years, however, has Leo Schachter introduced diamonds that bear the company name – first and foremost The Leo Diamond – available exclusively through authorized Leo Diamond jewelers.

The patented Leo Diamond is recognized as a breakthrough in the technique and craft of diamond cutting. The unique symmetry and placement of its facets result in fire, sparkle and brilliance that will take your breath away. Brilliance is how a diamond's beauty is determined.

Return of light: How brilliant diamonds are measured.

The Leo Diamond's superior brilliance , while visible to the naked eye, is also a benefit that has been measured and certified using state-of-the art optical technology. When a diamond is cut to good proportions, light is refracted from one facet to another, then dispersed through the top. Simply put, the Return of Light is the amount of light returned through the top of the diamond and directed to you – the true brilliance and beauty of the stone.

Scientifically proven to be more beautiful.

Today, GemEx Systems, an independent gemological laboratory, uses a tool called a BrillianceScope™ to measure Return of Light from different angles. It is both a scientific and objective method of evaluating a diamond. The BrillianceScope uses five lighting angles to measure the stone with precision and accuracy. Every Leo Diamond is measured and certified for superior Return of Light, and comes with written certification. Leo Diamonds are proven in this way to be more brilliant than other diamonds of comparable quality.

The charts below indicate how The Leo Diamond's Return of Light clearly outperforms that of a conventionally cut diamond.

(http://www.theleodiamond.com/Images/gemex%20position.jpg)

Return of Light is affected by three important factors: White Light, Color Light and Scintillation. With many conventional diamonds, the cut may allow light to escape through the side, so less light is returned back to you. The Leo's patented symmetrical cut allows light to enter the stone in such a way that the maximum amount of light is returned back in a sparkling flash known as scintillation. Absolutely brilliant, isn't it? Now that you know why Leo Diamonds are the most brilliant and beautiful diamonds in their class, see the gorgeous selection of Leo Diamonds and Leo diamond jewelry now available at authorized Leo Schachter jewelers.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: hitch on August 14, 2008, 11:50:14 AM
Oh please, stop it! Are you using the site to advertise your products now?!
Title: Cut - The Least Understood "C"
Post by: shell oil on August 15, 2008, 10:11:54 AM

Only if they satisfy the requierments

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9571/83130829cp5.jpg

(http://www.diamonds.com/images/4cs_balance.gif)


Cut is considered by some appraisers to be the most important one out of the 4Cs.

(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7927/ghho0.png)

The word "cut" actually refers to two different traits: 1) overall shape and 2) the make -- how well the shape is cut, including proportions, finish, and symmetry. On this page we will discuss how the basic shape of a diamond significantly affects the price. The primary wholesale price list (published monthly as the Rapaport Diamond Report gives prices for 3 shapes.  Rounds and marquise shapes have their own unique price charts, while the charts for pear shapes are used for all other shapes.

(http://www.gia.edu/images/image_library/489.gif)

BTW, The Rapaport Diamond Report is the monthly wholesale diamond price list used by dealers worldwide to keep up with changing market prices. But the list is not easy to use, in fact, most stores use the list incorrectly and pass their ignorance on to consumers when they sell stones. The Rapaport Diamond Report is intended for use in all situations in the diamond market. It is used by new, one-time buyers in New York City looking for a single stone, and it is also used by dealers who trade in millions of carats every year. So the prices on the Rapaport list are high cash asking prices used as the starting point for negotiations. Different dealers can buy at different discounts from this list. These discounts are the key. If your dealer is well-connected, he can buy at better discounts. If he is efficient and keeps costs down, he can offer you a diamond at such a good price that it's almost like buying wholesale.

http://wholesalediamonds.pricescope.com/

But it is complicated. Every shape sells at different discounts. Some shapes are not discounted at all. And these days, the cut grade of a diamond can make a huge difference in the discounts. Ideal cuts can actually sell for more than Rap, even to a dealer in the case of a super-ideal, which is what we call stones that have hearts and arrow patterns.

(http://diamonds.pricescope.com/tutor/tolk.gif)
Tolkowsky Ideal Cut
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: m a s k a r o v k a on August 15, 2008, 02:35:31 PM

LOL ayn, I know what ya mean! ;)


We all know what s/he means, Troy! And it's not just us who know about the whole matter -- in details! If we still do not say or do anything, it's not because we don't know...


Hahaha - you're so funny dru! ;)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: black widow on August 16, 2008, 08:39:08 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

(http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5148/raffaellath9.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related



Cool stuff!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: ambulando on August 21, 2008, 05:57:24 PM

Oh please, stop it! Are you using the site to advertise your products now?!


Exactly, hitch, they should stop posting ads unrelated to law school items on this site!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: u03B4 on August 26, 2008, 07:38:00 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

(http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5148/raffaellath9.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related



Cool stuff!


She belongs to another generation - my parents were familiar with her!
Title: Re: Cut - The Least Understood "C"
Post by: m a y a on August 29, 2008, 11:15:54 AM

Only if they satisfy the requierments

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9571/83130829cp5.jpg

(http://www.diamonds.com/images/4cs_balance.gif)


Cut is considered by some appraisers to be the most important one out of the 4Cs.

(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7927/ghho0.png)

The word "cut" actually refers to two different traits: 1) overall shape and 2) the make -- how well the shape is cut, including proportions, finish, and symmetry. On this page we will discuss how the basic shape of a diamond significantly affects the price. The primary wholesale price list (published monthly as the Rapaport Diamond Report gives prices for 3 shapes.  Rounds and marquise shapes have their own unique price charts, while the charts for pear shapes are used for all other shapes.

(http://www.gia.edu/images/image_library/489.gif)

BTW, The Rapaport Diamond Report is the monthly wholesale diamond price list used by dealers worldwide to keep up with changing market prices. But the list is not easy to use, in fact, most stores use the list incorrectly and pass their ignorance on to consumers when they sell stones. The Rapaport Diamond Report is intended for use in all situations in the diamond market. It is used by new, one-time buyers in New York City looking for a single stone, and it is also used by dealers who trade in millions of carats every year. So the prices on the Rapaport list are high cash asking prices used as the starting point for negotiations. Different dealers can buy at different discounts from this list. These discounts are the key. If your dealer is well-connected, he can buy at better discounts. If he is efficient and keeps costs down, he can offer you a diamond at such a good price that it's almost like buying wholesale.

http://wholesalediamonds.pricescope.com/

But it is complicated. Every shape sells at different discounts. Some shapes are not discounted at all. And these days, the cut grade of a diamond can make a huge difference in the discounts. Ideal cuts can actually sell for more than Rap, even to a dealer in the case of a super-ideal, which is what we call stones that have hearts and arrow patterns.

(http://diamonds.pricescope.com/tutor/tolk.gif)
Tolkowsky Ideal Cut


By what you're saying here I guess you are making it clear for anyone that cut is not really that important at all...
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: st a s h on September 02, 2008, 02:21:25 PM

Only if they satisfy the requierments

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9571/83130829cp5.jpg

(http://www.diamonds.com/images/4cs_balance.gif)


Cut is considered by some appraisers to be the most important one out of the 4Cs.

(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7927/ghho0.png)

The word "cut" actually refers to two different traits: 1) overall shape and 2) the make -- how well the shape is cut, including proportions, finish, and symmetry. On this page we will discuss how the basic shape of a diamond significantly affects the price. The primary wholesale price list (published monthly as the Rapaport Diamond Report gives prices for 3 shapes.  Rounds and marquise shapes have their own unique price charts, while the charts for pear shapes are used for all other shapes.

(http://www.gia.edu/images/image_library/489.gif)

BTW, The Rapaport Diamond Report is the monthly wholesale diamond price list used by dealers worldwide to keep up with changing market prices. But the list is not easy to use, in fact, most stores use the list incorrectly and pass their ignorance on to consumers when they sell stones. The Rapaport Diamond Report is intended for use in all situations in the diamond market. It is used by new, one-time buyers in New York City looking for a single stone, and it is also used by dealers who trade in millions of carats every year. So the prices on the Rapaport list are high cash asking prices used as the starting point for negotiations. Different dealers can buy at different discounts from this list. These discounts are the key. If your dealer is well-connected, he can buy at better discounts. If he is efficient and keeps costs down, he can offer you a diamond at such a good price that it's almost like buying wholesale.

http://wholesalediamonds.pricescope.com/

But it is complicated. Every shape sells at different discounts. Some shapes are not discounted at all. And these days, the cut grade of a diamond can make a huge difference in the discounts. Ideal cuts can actually sell for more than Rap, even to a dealer in the case of a super-ideal, which is what we call stones that have hearts and arrow patterns.

(http://diamonds.pricescope.com/tutor/tolk.gif)
Tolkowsky Ideal Cut


By what you're saying here I guess you are making it clear for anyone that cut is not really that important at all...


So it's settled by now, it's carat, isn't it?
Title: Madonna-Ritchie divorce confirmed
Post by: currency on October 15, 2008, 10:54:57 AM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee.


Don't forget that it wasn't her midriff that freaked out folks and inspired girls to start chopping shirts into halter tops; it was the power of her sexuality, and her belief in it, the way she acknowledged it and controlled it, the way she self-consciously toyed with it. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/SHOWBIZ/10/15/madonna.divorce/art.madonna.guy.gi.jpg)

CNN) -- Pop star Madonna and her film director husband Guy Ritchie are to divorce, Madonna's UK spokeswoman, Moira Bellas, confirmed to CNN. A statement e-mailed to The Associated Press from Madonna spokeswoman Liz Rosenberg says the couple has agreed to divorce, and asks the media to respect their privacy. The statement, co-signed by Ritchie's representative, says the couple had not agreed to a settlement. The Sun newspaper -- a British tabloid -- first reported Wednesday that the couple would announce the split imminently. Ritchie, 40, and Madonna married 7 years ago at a lavish ceremony in Scotland, but rumors have been circulating in the press recently that their relationship was increasingly under strain. Earlier this year, the singer denied being involved romantically with New York Yankees baseball player Alex Rodriguez. Rodriguez was eventually divorced from his wife. The last time the couple was seen together in public was in September, when Madonna took a break from touring to celebrate her husband's birthday at a London pub. A recent escalation in rows led to Madonna and Ritchie communicating via their personal assistants, The Sun reported.

"Despite huge attempts to patch things up they both know deep down that divorce was on the cards. It wasn't a matter of 'if' but 'when," The Sun, quoting a source, reported. The couple have 2 children together -- Rocco, 8, and David, 3, adopted from Malawi in 2006. Madonna also has a daughter, Lourdes, 12, from a previous relationship with dancer Carlos Leon. Madonna, who turned 50 earlier this year, was previously married to U.S. actor Sean Penn from 1985 to 1989. The British Press Association said that Ritchie has broken off from filming in France to fly back to the UK to inform his parents of the split. Ritchie made his name with 1998's "Lock, Stock and 2 Smoking Barrels," a London gangster movie hailed by critics, who called him the British version of U.S. director Quentin Tarantino. He continued the successful directing style with "Snatch" and "Revolver," but he bombed with "Swept Away" in 2002, which featured his wife. The deserted-island story grossed just $600,000 and was pulled from theaters after 3 weeks. His latest film is "RocknRolla," currently showing in London, New York, Los Angeles, and Toronto, is set for release across the U.S on October 31. According to The Sun, Madonna had wanted to wait until the end of her Sticky and Sweet global tour before announcing the news.

But the date has now been brought forward with both parties wanting a divorce finalized before Christmas, it reported. However, divorce lawyer Jeremy Abraham told CNN that such a swift resolution would be unlikely. "By my calculations, the earliest it's likely they could be divorced is the middle of February next year," he said. With Madonna worth hundreds of millions of dollars, Abraham added that he hoped the couple would be instituting an agreed plan to separate, rather than following the "Mills-McCartney nightmare" and fighting for a financial settlement through the courts. After an acrimonious separation from Paul McCartney, Heather Mills was awarded a settlement of almost $50 million in March this year.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: a g a p e on October 24, 2008, 07:06:09 PM

Your talent is naming the trouble, fixing it takes time.


Great signature, stash!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Your Local Jesus on October 30, 2008, 05:53:15 PM

Great handle, besame! I love that song!

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1257/748742882_d3dffce8a4.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVboAdTF0Dw


Here it is some real tangoo, Cell Block Tango, from "Chicago"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCZEmfnE-M&feature=related
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: P e r i c l e s on November 19, 2008, 10:36:41 AM

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/SHOWBIZ/10/15/madonna.divorce/art.madonna.guy.gi.jpg)

CNN) -- Pop star Madonna and her film director husband Guy Ritchie are to divorce, Madonna's UK spokeswoman, Moira Bellas, confirmed to CNN. A statement e-mailed to The Associated Press from Madonna spokeswoman Liz Rosenberg says the couple has agreed to divorce, and asks the media to respect their privacy. The statement, co-signed by Ritchie's representative, says the couple had not agreed to a settlement. The Sun newspaper -- a British tabloid -- first reported Wednesday that the couple would announce the split imminently. Ritchie, 40, and Madonna married 7 years ago at a lavish ceremony in Scotland, but rumors have been circulating in the press recently that their relationship was increasingly under strain. Earlier this year, the singer denied being involved romantically with New York Yankees baseball player Alex Rodriguez. Rodriguez was eventually divorced from his wife. The last time the couple was seen together in public was in September, when Madonna took a break from touring to celebrate her husband's birthday at a London pub. A recent escalation in rows led to Madonna and Ritchie communicating via their personal assistants, The Sun reported.

"Despite huge attempts to patch things up they both know deep down that divorce was on the cards. It wasn't a matter of 'if' but 'when," The Sun, quoting a source, reported. The couple have 2 children together -- Rocco, 8, and David, 3, adopted from Malawi in 2006. Madonna also has a daughter, Lourdes, 12, from a previous relationship with dancer Carlos Leon. Madonna, who turned 50 earlier this year, was previously married to U.S. actor Sean Penn from 1985 to 1989. The British Press Association said that Ritchie has broken off from filming in France to fly back to the UK to inform his parents of the split. Ritchie made his name with 1998's "Lock, Stock and 2 Smoking Barrels," a London gangster movie hailed by critics, who called him the British version of U.S. director Quentin Tarantino. He continued the successful directing style with "Snatch" and "Revolver," but he bombed with "Swept Away" in 2002, which featured his wife. The deserted-island story grossed just $600,000 and was pulled from theaters after 3 weeks. His latest film is "RocknRolla," currently showing in London, New York, Los Angeles, and Toronto, is set for release across the U.S on October 31. According to The Sun, Madonna had wanted to wait until the end of her Sticky and Sweet global tour before announcing the news.

But the date has now been brought forward with both parties wanting a divorce finalized before Christmas, it reported. However, divorce lawyer Jeremy Abraham told CNN that such a swift resolution would be unlikely. "By my calculations, the earliest it's likely they could be divorced is the middle of February next year," he said. With Madonna worth hundreds of millions of dollars, Abraham added that he hoped the couple would be instituting an agreed plan to separate, rather than following the "Mills-McCartney nightmare" and fighting for a financial settlement through the courts. After an acrimonious separation from Paul McCartney, Heather Mills was awarded a settlement of almost $50 million in March this year.


But of course they'd divorce - she's 50 and he's 40! The only couple with even a greater age difference that I know is Edith Piaf/Theophanis Lamboukas - he was 26 years old when he married the 46-year-old Piaf. Anyway, enjoy the great Piaf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QL3YRhN-YM&feature=related
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Editor-In-Chief on November 30, 2008, 11:43:58 AM

(http://images.askmen.com/imagesmusician/BritneySpears/britney_spears_150.JPG)

LOS ANGELES -- An appearance in family court sought by Kevin Federline amid a child custody dispute with Britney Spears was canceled Thursday after the pop star entered a rehabilitation program. Spears has gone into the Promises Malibu drug and alcohol rehabilitation center, her manager, Larry Rudolph, confirmed in an e-mail to The Associated Press. He gave no details. The TV entertainment magazines "Extra" and "The Insider" and the Web site TMZ said Spears' mother, Lynne Spears, drove her daughter to the center, which she had reportedly been in and out of earlier in the week.

The center specializes in treating drug and alcohol abuse. Last week, Spears sought treatment at a center in the Caribbean but also checked out after a day, according to various reports. Spears and Federline reportedly agreed Wednesday night that he would keep their two young sons while Spears was in rehabilitation, a program that takes between 30 and 45 days.

(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/news/070226/britney_bald1_180.jpg)

Last Friday, Spears arrived at a San Fernando Valley hair salon, grabbed an electric razor and shaved her head bald. Afterward, she visited a tattoo parlor, where she had a pair of red-and-pink lips inked onto her wrist. Then she went out clubbing with friends before apparently checking into Promises. Whether her recent behavior will damage her recording career is hard to say, said Vibe magazine music editor Jon Caramanica.

Spears, whose 1999 debut album, "... Baby One More Time," sold more than 13 million copies, hasn't released a new album since 2003. Before her troubles began she had promised one this year, and Caramanica suggested that might be a good outlet to address what she's going through. "I think the best thing she could do is make an album that engages with this subject matter in some way," he said. "Not only to have a good album but to have an album that's a declaration of emotional health."


She checked out of rehab I heard. Since filing for divorce from Kevin Federline last November, Spears draw criticism for her drinking, partying and sloppy appearance. She's been photographed intoxicated at nightclubs, carried out of a Las Vegas club on New Year's Eve after collapsing. Reps blamed the collapse on exhaustion. A former assistant of Spears' wrote on a gossip blog that Spears was headed for "rock bottom" and was in desperate need of help.


Britney Spears is doing much better as of now, don't ya think?
Title: The Little Old Lady
Post by: borsellino on December 01, 2008, 04:45:36 PM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee.


Don't forget that it wasn't her midriff that freaked out folks and inspired girls to start chopping shirts into halter tops; it was the power of her sexuality, and her belief in it, the way she acknowledged it and controlled it, the way she self-consciously toyed with it. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


Speaking of virgins/whores, here it is a joke:

Jesus came upon a small crowd who had surrounded a young woman they believed to be an adulteress. They were preparing to stone her to death.

To calm the situation, Jesus said: "Whoever is without sin among you, let them cast the first stone."

Suddenly, an old lady at the back of the crowd picked up a huge rock and lobbed it at the young woman, scoring a direct hit on her head. The unfortunate young lady collapsed dead on the spot.

Jesus looked over towards the old lady and said: "Mum, sometimes you really piss me off."
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: after virtue on December 01, 2008, 05:01:27 PM

(http://images.askmen.com/imagesmusician/BritneySpears/britney_spears_150.JPG)

LOS ANGELES -- An appearance in family court sought by Kevin Federline amid a child custody dispute with Britney Spears was canceled Thursday after the pop star entered a rehabilitation program. Spears has gone into the Promises Malibu drug and alcohol rehabilitation center, her manager, Larry Rudolph, confirmed in an e-mail to The Associated Press. He gave no details. The TV entertainment magazines "Extra" and "The Insider" and the Web site TMZ said Spears' mother, Lynne Spears, drove her daughter to the center, which she had reportedly been in and out of earlier in the week.

The center specializes in treating drug and alcohol abuse. Last week, Spears sought treatment at a center in the Caribbean but also checked out after a day, according to various reports. Spears and Federline reportedly agreed Wednesday night that he would keep their two young sons while Spears was in rehabilitation, a program that takes between 30 and 45 days.

(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/news/070226/britney_bald1_180.jpg)

Last Friday, Spears arrived at a San Fernando Valley hair salon, grabbed an electric razor and shaved her head bald. Afterward, she visited a tattoo parlor, where she had a pair of red-and-pink lips inked onto her wrist. Then she went out clubbing with friends before apparently checking into Promises. Whether her recent behavior will damage her recording career is hard to say, said Vibe magazine music editor Jon Caramanica.

Spears, whose 1999 debut album, "... Baby One More Time," sold more than 13 million copies, hasn't released a new album since 2003. Before her troubles began she had promised one this year, and Caramanica suggested that might be a good outlet to address what she's going through. "I think the best thing she could do is make an album that engages with this subject matter in some way," he said. "Not only to have a good album but to have an album that's a declaration of emotional health."


She checked out of rehab I heard. Since filing for divorce from Kevin Federline last November, Spears draw criticism for her drinking, partying and sloppy appearance. She's been photographed intoxicated at nightclubs, carried out of a Las Vegas club on New Year's Eve after collapsing. Reps blamed the collapse on exhaustion. A former assistant of Spears' wrote on a gossip blog that Spears was headed for "rock bottom" and was in desperate need of help.


Britney Spears is doing much better as of now, don't ya think?


Not really, Editor-In-Chief - I'd like to believe that's the case, but I don't really think so!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: FourChristmases on December 01, 2008, 06:45:24 PM
Editor, you can't judge Ms. Spears - Ms. Britney Spears - as a bad, weak person. It's the culture that it is to blame as well. Her addiction to drugs and failure is a SHARED RESPONSIBILTY between the two of them!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: tropez on December 07, 2008, 06:01:22 PM
Oh please, don't get me started with Britney Spears - she's an idiot! Why do you blame the culture - she knew what she's getting into! They don't say in vain, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!"
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 06:09:54 PM
f*cking christ yes.  Enough with pages of any kind. 
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: 10s on December 15, 2008, 07:26:52 PM
Don't you think they're cute though, Jack?!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: stinknrule on December 16, 2008, 06:44:40 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

(http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5148/raffaellath9.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related



She belongs to another generation - my parents were familiar with her!


The generation of Mireille Mathieu

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vR31wMtWL._AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWCuTRs5Sc&feature=related
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Luzhi on December 17, 2008, 07:05:22 PM


The generation of Mireille Mathieu

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vR31wMtWL._AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWCuTRs5Sc&feature=related


Hmm, the motive of the famous Greek sirtaki -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMW1Z1FiTo&feature=related
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: mimosa on January 13, 2009, 12:34:48 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

(http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5148/raffaellath9.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related



She belongs to another generation - my parents were familiar with her!


The generation of Mireille Mathieu

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vR31wMtWL._AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWCuTRs5Sc&feature=related


Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on a special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens! 
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Orietta on January 19, 2009, 03:25:20 AM

Hmm, the motive of the famous Greek sirtaki -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMW1Z1FiTo&feature=related


Not really - Sirtaki appears as the first on the left - the actual video URL posted is just some Ourania and Spiro * & ^ %!

I really hate it when people try to be smart asses! 
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Nico Landi on January 29, 2009, 12:40:05 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

(http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5148/raffaellath9.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related



She belongs to another generation - my parents were familiar with her!


The generation of Mireille Mathieu

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vR31wMtWL._AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWCuTRs5Sc&feature=related


Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on a special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens!
 

Hahaha - I know what ya mean, mimosa!

;)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Nico Landi on January 29, 2009, 12:44:03 PM

What if Macedonia changes its name -- will Greece start calling itself Macedonia?


It's not that simple -- do you know that Macedonia's major airport is called Skopje Alexander The Great Airport?


??
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: error..law on January 29, 2009, 01:04:48 PM

What if Macedonia changes its name -- will Greece start calling itself Macedonia?


It's not that simple -- do you know that Macedonia's major airport is called Skopje Alexander The Great Airport?


??


NicoLandi, you mean there's nothing wrong with Skopje's Airport being named "Alexander the Great"?
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: 1998 on January 30, 2009, 08:22:32 AM

It's not that simple -- do you know that Macedonia's major airport is called Skopje Alexander The Great Airport?


??


NicoLandi, you mean there's nothing wrong with Skopje's Airport being named "Alexander the Great"?


Well, it's not that simple. Macedonians are nationalists (just like any small country, after all!) Mother Theresa of Calcuta, for instance, was born to Albanian parents in Skopje in 1910, baptized in the Roman Catholic Cathedral as Gonxha Bojaxhiu, and spent the first 18 years of her life in Skopje. Today Macedonia formally opened a Memorial House dedicated to the late Mother Teresa, humanitarian and Nobel Peace Prize winner, to commemorate her birth in Skopje. BUT -- it is built at a site that is a few hundred meters from her actual birthplace -- at the real place where she was born a church was erected. All this is done in order to portrait her as a Macedonian from Skopje when in actuality she is an Albanian born in the city of Skopje. Macedonia is notorious when it comes to national heroes being "stolen," just like the case with Alexander the Great is.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: qiverori on February 01, 2009, 09:14:32 AM

NicoLandi, you mean there's nothing wrong with Skopje's Airport being named "Alexander the Great"?


Well, it's not that simple. Macedonians are nationalists (just like any small country, after all!) Mother Theresa of Calcuta, for instance, was born to Albanian parents in Skopje in 1910, baptized in the Roman Catholic Cathedral as Gonxha Bojaxhiu, and spent the first 18 years of her life in Skopje. Today Macedonia formally opened a Memorial House dedicated to the late Mother Teresa, humanitarian and Nobel Peace Prize winner, to commemorate her birth in Skopje. BUT -- it is built at a site that is a few hundred meters from her actual birthplace -- at the real place where she was born a church was erected. All this is done in order to portrait her as a Macedonian from Skopje when in actuality she is an Albanian born in the city of Skopje. Macedonia is notorious when it comes to national heroes being "stolen," just like the case with Alexander the Great is.


Her correct name is Agnesë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu an Albanian Roman Catholic nun with Indian citizenship who founded the Missionaries of Charity in Kolkata (Calcutta).
Title: Re: The Little Old Lady
Post by: dinner on February 03, 2009, 06:24:11 PM

Speaking of virgins/whores, here it is a joke:

Jesus came upon a small crowd who had surrounded a young woman they believed to be an adulteress. They were preparing to stone her to death.

To calm the situation, Jesus said: "Whoever is without sin among you, let them cast the first stone."

Suddenly, an old lady at the back of the crowd picked up a huge rock and lobbed it at the young woman, scoring a direct hit on her head. The unfortunate young lady collapsed dead on the spot.

Jesus looked over towards the old lady and said: "Mum, sometimes you really piss me off."


On the Internet the joke's last line goes, "Mom, sometimes you really piss me off." Would you claim ownership of a new joke by having made the modification?
Title: Re: The Little Old Lady
Post by: phaslee on February 04, 2009, 04:01:30 PM

On the Internet the joke's last line goes, "Mom, sometimes you really piss me off." Would you claim ownership of a new joke by having made the modification?


HAHAHA - I know what you mean, dinner! 

;)
Title: Mireille!
Post by: footfite on February 12, 2009, 06:52:06 PM

Great handle, besame! I love that song!

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1257/748742882_d3dffce8a4.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVboAdTF0Dw


Here it is some real tangoo, Cell Block Tango, from "Chicago"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCZEmfnE-M&feature=related


And here it is some even more real tango :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78a2NYmgGZI
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: ca r l e s s on February 18, 2009, 06:42:33 PM

Here it is some real tangoo, Cell Block Tango, from "Chicago"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCZEmfnE-M&feature=related


And here it is some even more real tango :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78a2NYmgGZI


God Bless you, footfite, for posting Mireille's Der Pariser!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Sun M Patinka on February 25, 2009, 02:59:39 PM

Oh please, don't get me started with Britney Spears - she's an idiot! Why do you blame the culture - she knew what she's getting into! They don't say in vain, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!"


I beg your pardon, tropez?
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Miliga on March 17, 2009, 04:27:39 PM

The generation of Mireille Mathieu

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vR31wMtWL._AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWCuTRs5Sc&feature=related


Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on a special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens! 


Right on the money, mimosa! I am an Asian - being thus not familiar with the Western culture - but Acropolis is simply marvellous, indeed!
Title: Dancing
Post by: Walter Ego on May 05, 2009, 05:09:52 PM

Hmm, the motive of the famous Greek sirtaki -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMW1Z1FiTo&feature=related


Indeed, it's all about the feet! Dancing is all about the feet! Taking care of our feet is one of the most commonly overlooked aspects of personal health, despite being one the most important assets we own. Common complaints that affect dancers include rubbing shoes, tired, aching feet and foot pain. It is very important to to wear the right footwear. Different sports can require slightly different types of training shoe, the same applies to different types of dancing. Ill-fitting dance shoes can lead to numerous foot problems that can affect your dancing and enjoyment.

1) Sesamoiditis

Sesamoiditis is a condition affects the ball of the foot. Specifically, Sesamoiditis refers to the irritation of the sesamoid bones (tiny bones that lead to the big toe), which can become irritated and possibly fractured each time you push off the ground with the toes.

2) Foot blisters

A blister is a bubble of fluid under the outer layer of skin. The fluid may be clear or filled with blood or pus. There are many possible causes of blisters including a burn, disease, an allergic reaction, or from your skin rubbing against something.

3) Corns & Calluses

Corns and calluses develop when normal skin activity is over-stimulated resulting in a thickening layer of skin. This over-stimulation can result from congenital, hormonal, occupational & infective factors.

4) Over Pronation

Pes planus otherwise termed as flat feet is a biomechanical problem, where the arch of the foot appears flattened. This causes the foot to roll inwards in order to gain contact with the floor and support the weight of the body.

5) Sweaty Feet

Feet contain 250,000 sweat glands that constantly secrete moisture to keep feet moist, supple and healthy. However many feet are prone to excessive sweating, which can lead to irritable feet.

6) Heel Pain

Heel Pain Syndrome is caused by repetitive pressure placed on the heel of the foot when walking, which causes soreness of the heel. Three types of heel pain include Bursitis, Plantar Fasciitis and General Heel Pain Syndrome.

7) Metatarsalgia

The metatarsal region refers to the ball of the foot. Metatarsalgia is a burning sensation in the ball of the foot that can be either mild or severe, and can sometimes be a recurring problem.

8 ) Athletes Foot

Athlete's foot is a fungal infection that usually appears between the toes, however the infection can affect any part of the foot or toenail.

9) Shin Splints

Shin splints can cause pain in the front lower leg due to minor tearing of the anterior muscle (muscle between mid-foot and knee) from the shin bone. There are two types of shin splints: Anterior Shin Splints, located in the tibia (front portion of shin) and posterior Shin Splints, located on the medial (inside) part of the tibia.

10) Achilles Tendonitis

The Achilles tendon is a large tendon that joins with the gastrocnemius and soleus muscle, and inserts into the calcaneous (heel bone) at the back of the leg. Achilles tendonitis is where the tendon becomes inflamed or begins to degenerate.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: F1A on May 07, 2009, 08:35:40 AM
Walter, thanks for posting that stuff! Looks like they don't say in vain, "What is life if not the dance?"
Title: Rare blue diamond sells for record $9.5 million
Post by: becka on May 13, 2009, 09:45:51 AM


Cut is considered by some appraisers to be the most important one out of the 4Cs.

(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7927/ghho0.png)

The word "cut" actually refers to two different traits: 1) overall shape and 2) the make -- how well the shape is cut, including proportions, finish, and symmetry. On this page we will discuss how the basic shape of a diamond significantly affects the price. The primary wholesale price list (published monthly as the Rapaport Diamond Report gives prices for 3 shapes.  Rounds and marquise shapes have their own unique price charts, while the charts for pear shapes are used for all other shapes.

(http://www.gia.edu/images/image_library/489.gif)

BTW, The Rapaport Diamond Report is the monthly wholesale diamond price list used by dealers worldwide to keep up with changing market prices. But the list is not easy to use, in fact, most stores use the list incorrectly and pass their ignorance on to consumers when they sell stones. The Rapaport Diamond Report is intended for use in all situations in the diamond market. It is used by new, one-time buyers in New York City looking for a single stone, and it is also used by dealers who trade in millions of carats every year. So the prices on the Rapaport list are high cash asking prices used as the starting point for negotiations. Different dealers can buy at different discounts from this list. These discounts are the key. If your dealer is well-connected, he can buy at better discounts. If he is efficient and keeps costs down, he can offer you a diamond at such a good price that it's almost like buying wholesale.

http://wholesalediamonds.pricescope.com/

But it is complicated. Every shape sells at different discounts. Some shapes are not discounted at all. And these days, the cut grade of a diamond can make a huge difference in the discounts. Ideal cuts can actually sell for more than Rap, even to a dealer in the case of a super-ideal, which is what we call stones that have hearts and arrow patterns.




(http://www.avatarhosting.net/pics/13782/cap.jpg)
A Sotheby's employee displays a rare vivid blue diamond ring weighing 7.03 carats, during a preview at Sotheby's in Geneva, Switzerland, Wednesday, May 6, 2009. It is estimated to fetch US$5.8 to 8.5 million when it comes to auction in Geneva on May 12, at which point the buyer will have the honor of naming the diamond as the first owner of the stone.

GENEVA (Reuters) – A flawless vivid blue diamond weighing 7.03 carats sold Tuesday for a record 10.5 million Swiss francs ($9.49 million), the highest price paid per carat for any gemstone at auction, Sotheby's said. The rectangular-shaped blue stone, the rarest to enter the international market this year, went to an anonymous buyer bidding by telephone after hectic bidding see-sawed between two callers for 15 minutes. It was the centrepiece of its semi-annual sale in Geneva, conducted by David Bennett, chairman of Sotheby's jewelry department in Europe and the Middle East, who said the results showed the market's resilience despite the economic downturn.

"This is already a new world record price for a fancy vivid blue diamond and a new world record per carat for any gemstone (at auction)," Bennett told reporters. "It is fantastic in this market and shows that these rare things are very much in demand," he said. The final price includes a commission paid by the buyer to the auction house. The stone sets a record price per carat for any gemstone sold at auction of $1,349,752, Sotheby's said. The previous record price for a fancy vivid blue diamond was $7.9 million, including commission, for a stone weighing 6.04 carats at sale in Hong Kong in October 2007, also by Sotheby's. The new owner will have the right to name the stone, which is mounted in a platinum ring. The pre-sale catalog estimate was 6.8 million to 10 million francs, excluding commission. The hammer price excluding commission was 9.3 million francs.

It was put up for sale by London-listed Petra Diamonds, which extracted it last year from the historic Cullinan mine in South Africa, the world's most regular supplier of blue diamonds of size and quality. Blue are the rarest of the diamond family after reds. "To have a stone mined last year and cut the early part of this year so it is absolutely virgin coming straight from the mine has never happened before," Bennett said. "This is one of the extremely rare substances in our universe." The sale fetched a total of 39.5 million swiss francs ($35.7 million) for 266 lots which found new owners, while another 80 pieces were stranded on the block. "In this general economic environment to see $35 million worth sold in a session shows a lot about the resilience of fine jewels no matter what the climate," Bennett said. Fresh stones to the market, including coloured diamonds, fetched good prices, the Briton said.
Title: Re: The Little Old Lady
Post by: Routing No. on May 14, 2009, 08:36:31 AM

Speaking of virgins/whores, here it is a joke:

Jesus came upon a small crowd who had surrounded a young woman they believed to be an adulteress. They were preparing to stone her to death.

To calm the situation, Jesus said: "Whoever is without sin among you, let them cast the first stone."

Suddenly, an old lady at the back of the crowd picked up a huge rock and lobbed it at the young woman, scoring a direct hit on her head. The unfortunate young lady collapsed dead on the spot.

Jesus looked over towards the old lady and said: "Mum, sometimes you really piss me off."


On the Internet the joke's last line goes, "Mom, sometimes you really piss me off." Would you claim ownership of a new joke by having made the modification?


Hahaha - you're so funny! ;)
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: theme on May 15, 2009, 07:19:45 AM

The generation of Mireille Mathieu

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vR31wMtWL._AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZWCuTRs5Sc&feature=related


Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on a special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens! 


Yeah right, jealous! Athens stinks and has a reputation of being a quite dirty city among tourists!
Title: Re: The Little Old Lady
Post by: synthetic on May 23, 2009, 09:01:02 AM

Speaking of virgins/whores, here it is a joke:

Jesus came upon a small crowd who had surrounded a young woman they believed to be an adulteress. They were preparing to stone her to death.

To calm the situation, Jesus said: "Whoever is without sin among you, let them cast the first stone."

Suddenly, an old lady at the back of the crowd picked up a huge rock and lobbed it at the young woman, scoring a direct hit on her head. The unfortunate young lady collapsed dead on the spot.

Jesus looked over towards the old lady and said: "Mum, sometimes you really piss me off."


On the Internet the joke's last line goes, "Mom, sometimes you really piss me off." Would you claim ownership of a new joke by having made the modification?


Hahaha - you're so funny! ;)


"Funny" as it may seem, by using "Mum" instead of "Mom" the joke is transformed into a different one..
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Hayde on November 21, 2010, 12:42:01 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related


Rafaella is indeed one of a kind, a great artist!


Anything more substantial to say?!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Antalia on November 22, 2010, 01:53:18 PM
Hayde, looks like people in here have too much spare time in their hands...
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: countryman on January 29, 2011, 03:46:14 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related


Rafaella is indeed one of a kind, a great artist!


Anything more substantial to say?!


Hayde, is it "Hayde" your real name? The reason I am asking is because I've known people with the name "Haydee," but have never seen anything like yours.. Just curious, you know..
Title: Re: Rare blue diamond sells for record $9.5 million
Post by: probe on April 27, 2011, 11:34:24 AM


Cut is considered by some appraisers to be the most important one out of the 4Cs.

(http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7927/ghho0.png)

The word "cut" actually refers to two different traits: 1) overall shape and 2) the make -- how well the shape is cut, including proportions, finish, and symmetry. On this page we will discuss how the basic shape of a diamond significantly affects the price. The primary wholesale price list (published monthly as the Rapaport Diamond Report gives prices for 3 shapes.  Rounds and marquise shapes have their own unique price charts, while the charts for pear shapes are used for all other shapes.

(http://www.gia.edu/images/image_library/489.gif)

BTW, The Rapaport Diamond Report is the monthly wholesale diamond price list used by dealers worldwide to keep up with changing market prices. But the list is not easy to use, in fact, most stores use the list incorrectly and pass their ignorance on to consumers when they sell stones. The Rapaport Diamond Report is intended for use in all situations in the diamond market. It is used by new, one-time buyers in New York City looking for a single stone, and it is also used by dealers who trade in millions of carats every year. So the prices on the Rapaport list are high cash asking prices used as the starting point for negotiations. Different dealers can buy at different discounts from this list. These discounts are the key. If your dealer is well-connected, he can buy at better discounts. If he is efficient and keeps costs down, he can offer you a diamond at such a good price that it's almost like buying wholesale.

http://wholesalediamonds.pricescope.com/

But it is complicated. Every shape sells at different discounts. Some shapes are not discounted at all. And these days, the cut grade of a diamond can make a huge difference in the discounts. Ideal cuts can actually sell for more than Rap, even to a dealer in the case of a super-ideal, which is what we call stones that have hearts and arrow patterns.




(http://www.avatarhosting.net/pics/13782/cap.jpg)
A Sotheby's employee displays a rare vivid blue diamond ring weighing 7.03 carats, during a preview at Sotheby's in Geneva, Switzerland, Wednesday, May 6, 2009. It is estimated to fetch US$5.8 to 8.5 million when it comes to auction in Geneva on May 12, at which point the buyer will have the honor of naming the diamond as the first owner of the stone.

GENEVA (Reuters) – A flawless vivid blue diamond weighing 7.03 carats sold Tuesday for a record 10.5 million Swiss francs ($9.49 million), the highest price paid per carat for any gemstone at auction, Sotheby's said. The rectangular-shaped blue stone, the rarest to enter the international market this year, went to an anonymous buyer bidding by telephone after hectic bidding see-sawed between two callers for 15 minutes. It was the centrepiece of its semi-annual sale in Geneva, conducted by David Bennett, chairman of Sotheby's jewelry department in Europe and the Middle East, who said the results showed the market's resilience despite the economic downturn.

"This is already a new world record price for a fancy vivid blue diamond and a new world record per carat for any gemstone (at auction)," Bennett told reporters. "It is fantastic in this market and shows that these rare things are very much in demand," he said. The final price includes a commission paid by the buyer to the auction house. The stone sets a record price per carat for any gemstone sold at auction of $1,349,752, Sotheby's said. The previous record price for a fancy vivid blue diamond was $7.9 million, including commission, for a stone weighing 6.04 carats at sale in Hong Kong in October 2007, also by Sotheby's. The new owner will have the right to name the stone, which is mounted in a platinum ring. The pre-sale catalog estimate was 6.8 million to 10 million francs, excluding commission. The hammer price excluding commission was 9.3 million francs.

It was put up for sale by London-listed Petra Diamonds, which extracted it last year from the historic Cullinan mine in South Africa, the world's most regular supplier of blue diamonds of size and quality. Blue are the rarest of the diamond family after reds. "To have a stone mined last year and cut the early part of this year so it is absolutely virgin coming straight from the mine has never happened before," Bennett said. "This is one of the extremely rare substances in our universe." The sale fetched a total of 39.5 million swiss francs ($35.7 million) for 266 lots which found new owners, while another 80 pieces were stranded on the block. "In this general economic environment to see $35 million worth sold in a session shows a lot about the resilience of fine jewels no matter what the climate," Bennett said. Fresh stones to the market, including coloured diamonds, fetched good prices, the Briton said.


I am sure there is another board where to post this information..
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: füle on April 29, 2011, 01:35:58 PM

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.


Hahaha - your so funny, countryman!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: krow on May 22, 2011, 10:38:59 AM

LOL ayn, I know what ya mean! ;)


We all know what s/he means, Troy! And it's not just us who know about the whole matter -- in details! If we still do not say or do anything, it's not because we don't know...


What do you mean, dru???
Title: Greek Debt: How Much for the Acropolis?
Post by: B a i k a l on July 31, 2011, 11:48:27 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

(http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5148/raffaellath9.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related



She belongs to another generation - my parents were familiar with her!


The generation of Mireille Mathieu

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vR31wMtWL._AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPvKRDnAz5A&feature=related


Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens!


By now Greece is for sale. Including its famous Acropolis.

(http://assets.thefiscaltimes.com/TFT2_20101228/App_Data/MediaFiles/9/1/C/%7B91C600B3-C3A6-442C-8311-9A48BFE2F698%7D07062011_parthenon_sale_article.jpg)

Finland wants collateral (the Acropolis?) to support a second bailout.

http://www.ipoliticalrisk.com/2011/07/finland-eyes-acropolis-as-greek-debt.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255449/Greece-debt-crisis-German-MPs-suggest-Greek-Islands-Acropolis-sale.html
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: conenact on August 02, 2011, 11:56:57 AM

Not really! As the glut of excess lawyers continues unabated (and as technology makes many things possible with far fewer lawyers) further adjustments are not far behind. Currently, the top 10-15% (gradewise) from 1st tier schools (roughly, the 40 or so best schools in the U.S.) go to two kinds of jobs. They go to "traditional firms" (these firms used to hire from the top 50%) and government jobs (that used to go to the bottom 50% of the class from the bottom 50% of the schools). Worse, after a year of so of looking for work, the very status of length out of law school is a permanent barrier to most employment. A history in a small firm, as a solo or in a District Attorney's Office qualifies an attorney only to go to work for herself or himself.

The "ticket punching" era has come to an end -- in some states slowly, in some states with great drama. In one instance (when the great "crunch" hit Texas) schools went from full placement by Christmas of the senior year to 20% placement at graduation in the course of one class. Virtually all of the Harvard class of '75 made partner by the 10-year reunion. Of the Harvard class of '85, so few made partner by the 10-year reunion it was a Section B front page story in the Wall Street Journal.


What really gets me is how goes the site allows posters with avatars such as this one's? Is this place for law students or law whores?


Try to be a lil' bit more open-minded Hayde! :)
Title: Re: Greek Debt: How Much for the Acropolis?
Post by: ex on August 04, 2011, 12:00:08 PM

Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens!


By now Greece is for sale. Including its famous Acropolis.

(http://assets.thefiscaltimes.com/TFT2_20101228/App_Data/MediaFiles/9/1/C/%7B91C600B3-C3A6-442C-8311-9A48BFE2F698%7D07062011_parthenon_sale_article.jpg)

Finland wants collateral (the Acropolis?) to support a second bailout.

http://www.ipoliticalrisk.com/2011/07/finland-eyes-acropolis-as-greek-debt.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255449/Greece-debt-crisis-German-MPs-suggest-Greek-Islands-Acropolis-sale.html


Not as funny as one'd like to think, indeed..
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: contain on August 05, 2011, 11:30:36 AM
No island will save Greece, no matter how beautiful it may be and how many tourists are attracted!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: externship on August 18, 2011, 06:02:59 PM

Not really! As the glut of excess lawyers continues unabated (and as technology makes many things possible with far fewer lawyers) further adjustments are not far behind. Currently, the top 10-15% (gradewise) from 1st tier schools (roughly, the 40 or so best schools in the U.S.) go to two kinds of jobs. They go to "traditional firms" (these firms used to hire from the top 50%) and government jobs (that used to go to the bottom 50% of the class from the bottom 50% of the schools). Worse, after a year of so of looking for work, the very status of length out of law school is a permanent barrier to most employment. A history in a small firm, as a solo or in a District Attorney's Office qualifies an attorney only to go to work for herself or himself.

The "ticket punching" era has come to an end -- in some states slowly, in some states with great drama. In one instance (when the great "crunch" hit Texas) schools went from full placement by Christmas of the senior year to 20% placement at graduation in the course of one class. Virtually all of the Harvard class of '75 made partner by the 10-year reunion. Of the Harvard class of '85, so few made partner by the 10-year reunion it was a Section B front page story in the Wall Street Journal.


What really gets me is how does the site allows posters with avatars such as this one's? Is this place for law students or law whores?


Try to be a lil' bit more open-minded Hayde! :)


I don't really think they police the site to that extent - oh, one more thing, Hayde, law students and law whores are two different things indeed, just don't confuse them with each-other..
Title: Re: Don't call them by my name... say FYROM
Post by: externship on August 18, 2011, 06:13:29 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Hahaha - your funny, episio! ;)
Title: Re: Pederasty as an Institution, in Ancient Greece
Post by: kaps on December 05, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
Yes.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Amphora_-seduction_scene-_for_Wiki.jpg/250px-Amphora_-seduction_scene-_for_Wiki.jpg)
The bearded man is depicted in a traditional pederastic courtship gesture, one hand reaching to fondle the young man, the other grasping his chin so as to look him in the eye. The youth is putting up symbolic resistance only.

Greek pederasty, as idealized by the Greeks from Archaic times onward, was a relationship and bond between an adolescent boy and an adult man outside of his immediate family, and was constructed as an aristocratic moral and educational institution. As such, it was seen by the Greeks as an essential element in their culture from the time of Homer onwards. The term derives from the combination of pais (Greek for 'boy') with erastēs (Greek for 'lover'; cf. eros). In a wider sense it referred to erotic love between adolescents and adult men. The Greeks considered it normal for any man to be drawn to the beauty of a boy - just as much if not more than to that of a woman. What they disagreed upon was whether and how to express that desire. Pederasty is closely associated with the customs of athletic and artistic nudity in the gymnasia, delayed marriage for gentlemen, symposia and seclusion of women. It is also integral to Greek military training, and an important factor in the deployment of troops.

The ancient Greeks of the pederastic city-states were the first to describe, study, systematize, and establish pederasty as an institution. The origin of that tradition has been variously explained. One school of thought, articulated by Bernard Sergent, holds that the Greek pederastic model evolved from far older Indo-European rites of passage, which were grounded in a shamanic tradition with roots in the neolithic. Another explanation, articulated by Anglophone scholars such as William Percy, holds that pederasty was formalized in ancient Crete around 630 B.C. as a means of population control, together with delayed age of marriage for men of 30 years.

The Spartans however were said to practice chaste pederasty.[4] Where allowed, a free man was usually entitled to fall in love with a boy, proclaim it publicly, and court him as long as the boy in question manifested the traits prerequisite to a pederastic relationship: he had to be kalos (καλός), "handsome" and agathos ((καλός), good, brave, just, and modest. The boy was expected to be circumspect and not let himself be easily won. Generally, the role of the lover had many of the characteristics of that of legal guardian, similar to the role of male relatives of the boy.

Socrates, Plato, Aeschines Socraticus, and Xenophon described the inspirational powers of love between men though decrying its physical expression. Upon the death of Plato the presidency of the Academy passed from lover to lover. Of the Stoics, Chrysippus, Cleanthes, and Zeno fell in love with young men. Socrates, as represented in Plato's writings, appears to have favored chaste pederastic relationships, marked by a balance between desire and self-control or so we are told. By setting aside the sexual consummation of the relationship, Socrates essentialized the friendship and love between the partners. He pointedly criticized purely physical infatuations, for example by mocking Critias' lust for Euthydemus by comparing his behavior towards the boy to that of a "a piglet scratching itself against a rock". That, however, did not prevent him from frequenting the boy brothels, from which he bought and freed his future friend and student, Phaedo, nor from describing his erotic intoxication upon glimpsing the beautiful Charmides' naked body beneath his open tunic. Socrates' love of Alcibiades, which was more than reciprocated, is held as an example of chaste pederasty. Plutarch and Xenophon, in their descriptions of Spartan pederasty, state that even though it is the beautiful boys who are sought above all others (contrary to the Cretan traditions), nevertheless the pederastic couple remains chaste.

Male relationships were represented in complex ways, some honorable and others dishonorable. But for the vast majority of ancient historians for a man to have not had a youth for a lover presented a deficiency in character. Plato, in his early works (the Symposium or in Phaedrus), does not question the principles of pederasty and states, referring to same-sex relationships:

Quote
For I know not any greater blessing to a young man who is beginning in life than a virtuous lover, or to a lover than a beloved youth. For the principle, I say, neither kindred, nor honor, nor wealth, nor any motive is able to implant so well as love. Of what am I speaking? Of the sense of honor and dishonor, without which neither states nor individuals ever do any good or great work… And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonor and emulating one another in honor; and it is scarcely an exaggeration to say that when fighting at each other’s side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world.

Dr. Alfred W. McCoy has claimed that the CIA secretly collaborated with Asian drug syndicates and was complicit in the expansion of the global heroin trade from 1970 to 1973 in order to prosecute the Cold War. While the Vietnam War brought modern transportation to remote opium areas, McCoy himself does not claim that the CIA set up the drug labs in Southeast Asia or created the trade. Heroin is one of the most profitable illicit drugs since it is compact and easily concealed. At present, opium poppies are mostly grown in the Middle East, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, and in Asia, especially in the region known as the Golden Triangle straddling Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos and Yunnan province in China. There is also cultivation of opium poppies in the Sinaloa region of Mexico and in Colombia. The majority of the heroin consumed in the United States comes from Mexico and Colombia. Up until 2004, Pakistan was considered one of the biggest opium-growing countries. However, the efforts of Pakistan's Anti-Narcotics Force have since reduced the opium growing area by 59% as of 2001[citation needed]. Some suggest that the decline in Pakistani production is inversely proportional to the rise of Afghani production, and that rather than anti-narcotics activity, the decline in Pakistan is due more to changed market forces.

Social aspects

The erastes-eromenos relationship was fundamental to the Classical Greek social and educational system, had its own complex social-sexual etiquette and was an important social institution among the upper class. Pederastic relationships were dyadic mentorships. These mentorships were sanctioned by the state, as evidenced by laws mandating and controlling such relationships. Likewise, they were consecrated by the religious establishment, as can be seen from the many myths describing such relationships between gods and heroes (Apollo and Hyacinth, Zeus and Ganymede, Heracles and Hylas, Pan and Daphnis) and between one hero and another (Achilles and Patroclus, Orestes and Pylades). It is interesting to note that the Greeks tried to project a semblance of pederasty (read: propriety) onto these last two pairs, despite a great deal of evidence that the two myths were originally intended to symbolize egalitarian relationships. In general, the pederasty described in the Greek literary sources is clearly an aristocratic institution.


What??
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: kaps on December 05, 2011, 04:05:20 AM

Quote
"I recall a private conversation in which feminists outlined to me their notion of what an ideal "gay male world" would be like. In this scenario, women have even less respect and less power than in our current misogynistic set-up, because aside from a few women allowed in as decoration, women would simply have no raison d'être except as breeding machines."


Homosexuality and the Judaeo-Christian Tradition

Homosexual male elites routinely abused boys and male slaves when the ancient world was being dominated by Greeks and Romans. The search for relief from this oppression may have been a big factor in the eventual establishment of the Judaeo-Christian ethic, with its condemnation of homosexuality. This hypothesis is tacitly suggested in a 1933 article in The Nation by Ludwig Lewisohn, who observed that the Nazi movement was "in fact and by certain aspects of its avowed ideology drenched through and through with homo-erotic feeling and practice." He also wrote that the Nazis identified with the ancient Greeks and were "well-purged of Judaeo-Christian inhibitions" while "returning to the noble practices of their Greek ancestors," although encumbered by "an obscure feeling of guilt inherited from 1,500 years of apparent submission to the Judaeo-Christian ethic."


Clarification .. puhleeze
Title: Re: Pederasty as an Institution, in Ancient Greece
Post by: F. Korbee on December 06, 2011, 06:58:08 PM
Yes.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Erastes_eromenos_Staatliche_Antikensammlungen_1468.jpg)
The bearded man is depicted in a traditional pederastic courtship gesture, one hand reaching to fondle the young man, the other grasping his chin so as to look him in the eye. The youth is putting up symbolic resistance only.

Greek pederasty, as idealized by the Greeks from Archaic times onward, was a relationship and bond between an adolescent boy and an adult man outside of his immediate family, and was constructed as an aristocratic moral and educational institution. As such, it was seen by the Greeks as an essential element in their culture from the time of Homer onwards. The term derives from the combination of pais (Greek for 'boy') with erastēs (Greek for 'lover'; cf. eros). In a wider sense it referred to erotic love between adolescents and adult men. The Greeks considered it normal for any man to be drawn to the beauty of a boy - just as much if not more than to that of a woman. What they disagreed upon was whether and how to express that desire. Pederasty is closely associated with the customs of athletic and artistic nudity in the gymnasia, delayed marriage for gentlemen, symposia and seclusion of women. It is also integral to Greek military training, and an important factor in the deployment of troops.

The ancient Greeks of the pederastic city-states were the first to describe, study, systematize, and establish pederasty as an institution. The origin of that tradition has been variously explained. One school of thought, articulated by Bernard Sergent, holds that the Greek pederastic model evolved from far older Indo-European rites of passage, which were grounded in a shamanic tradition with roots in the neolithic. Another explanation, articulated by Anglophone scholars such as William Percy, holds that pederasty was formalized in ancient Crete around 630 B.C. as a means of population control, together with delayed age of marriage for men of 30 years.

The Spartans however were said to practice chaste pederasty. Where allowed, a free man was usually entitled to fall in love with a boy, proclaim it publicly, and court him as long as the boy in question manifested the traits prerequisite to a pederastic relationship: he had to be kalos (καλός), "handsome" and agathos ((καλός), good, brave, just, and modest. The boy was expected to be circumspect and not let himself be easily won. Generally, the role of the lover had many of the characteristics of that of legal guardian, similar to the role of male relatives of the boy.

Socrates, Plato, Aeschines Socraticus, and Xenophon described the inspirational powers of love between men though decrying its physical expression. Upon the death of Plato the presidency of the Academy passed from lover to lover. Of the Stoics, Chrysippus, Cleanthes, and Zeno fell in love with young men. Socrates, as represented in Plato's writings, appears to have favored chaste pederastic relationships, marked by a balance between desire and self-control. By setting aside the sexual consummation of the relationship, Socrates essentialized the friendship and love between the partners. He pointedly criticized purely physical infatuations, for example by mocking Critias' lust for Euthydemus by comparing his behavior towards the boy to that of a "a piglet scratching itself against a rock". That, however, did not prevent him from frequenting the boy brothels, from which he bought and freed his future friend and student, Phaedo, nor from describing his erotic intoxication upon glimpsing the beautiful Charmides' naked body beneath his open tunic. Socrates' love of Alcibiades, which was more than reciprocated, is held as an example of chaste pederasty. Plutarch and Xenophon, in their descriptions of Spartan pederasty, state that even though it is the beautiful boys who are sought above all others (contrary to the Cretan traditions), nevertheless the pederastic couple remains chaste.

Male relationships were represented in complex ways, some honorable and others dishonorable. But for the vast majority of ancient historians for a man to have not had a youth for a lover presented a deficiency in character. Plato, in his early works (the Symposium or in Phaedrus), does not question the principles of pederasty and states, referring to same-sex relationships:

[...]

Social aspects

The erastes-eromenos relationship was fundamental to the Classical Greek social and educational system, had its own complex social-sexual etiquette and was an important social institution among the upper class. Pederastic relationships were dyadic mentorships. These mentorships were sanctioned by the state, as evidenced by laws mandating and controlling such relationships. Likewise, they were consecrated by the religious establishment, as can be seen from the many myths describing such relationships between gods and heroes (Apollo and Hyacinth, Zeus and Ganymede, Heracles and Hylas, Pan and Daphnis) and between one hero and another (Achilles and Patroclus, Orestes and Pylades). It is interesting to note that the Greeks tried to project a semblance of pederasty (read: propriety) onto these last two pairs, despite a great deal of evidence that the two myths were originally intended to symbolize egalitarian relationships. In general, the pederasty described in the Greek literary sources is clearly an aristocratic institution.


What??


Nothing strange about it, kaps! Not only was pederasty an institution in ancient Greece, it was an ARISTOCRATIC institution! It was also fundamental to their educational system, with Socrates, Plato and the like having had had their preferred students (the mentorship type of thing, you know).
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: F. Korbee on December 06, 2011, 07:19:44 PM

Quote
"I recall a private conversation in which feminists outlined to me their notion of what an ideal "gay male world" would be like. In this scenario, women have even less respect and less power than in our current misogynistic set-up, because aside from a few women allowed in as decoration, women would simply have no raison d'être except as breeding machines."


Homosexuality and the Judaeo-Christian Tradition

Homosexual male elites routinely abused boys and male slaves when the ancient world was being dominated by Greeks and Romans. The search for relief from this oppression may have been a big factor in the eventual establishment of the Judaeo-Christian ethic, with its condemnation of homosexuality. This hypothesis is tacitly suggested in a 1933 article in "The Nation" by Ludwig Lewisohn, who observed that the Nazi movement was "in fact and by certain aspects of its avowed ideology drenched through and through with homo-erotic feeling and practice." He also wrote that the Nazis identified with the ancient Greeks and were "well-purged of Judaeo-Christian inhibitions" while "returning to the noble practices of their Greek ancestors," although encumbered by "an obscure feeling of guilt inherited from 1,500 years of apparent submission to the Judaeo-Christian ethic."


Clarification .. puhleeze


Oh, come on, you are pulling our legs here ..
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Sh.Gemal on December 10, 2011, 04:07:16 AM
What do you mean, F. Korbee? Ancient Greeks were really freaks and @ # ! * e d boys in the way it's described in here ... it was the Church that imposed restrictions on gay sex and pederasty ... nowadays we may think of the Christian faith as being overtly restrictive when it comes to sexuality, but you've to take into account the bestiality of ancient world to figure out as to why the church has tried to impose the kinds of restrictions that we know of ...
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Julie Fern on December 10, 2011, 10:52:34 AM

Quote
"I recall a private conversation in which feminists outlined to me their notion of what an ideal "gay male world" would be like. In this scenario, women have even less respect and less power than in our current misogynistic set-up, because aside from a few women allowed in as decoration, women would simply have no raison d'être except as breeding machines."


Homosexuality and the Judaeo-Christian Tradition

Homosexual male elites routinely abused boys and male slaves when the ancient world was being dominated by Greeks and Romans. The search for relief from this oppression may have been a big factor in the eventual establishment of the Judaeo-Christian ethic, with its condemnation of homosexuality. This hypothesis is tacitly suggested in a 1933 article in "The Nation" by Ludwig Lewisohn, who observed that the Nazi movement was "in fact and by certain aspects of its avowed ideology drenched through and through with homo-erotic feeling and practice." He also wrote that the Nazis identified with the ancient Greeks and were "well-purged of Judaeo-Christian inhibitions" while "returning to the noble practices of their Greek ancestors," although encumbered by "an obscure feeling of guilt inherited from 1,500 years of apparent submission to the Judaeo-Christian ethic."


Clarification .. puhleeze


Oh, come on, you are pulling our legs here ..

not leg, exactly.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: vergene on December 10, 2011, 11:29:01 PM

What do you mean, F. Korbee? Ancient Greeks were really freaks and @ # ! * e d boys in the way it's described in here ... it was the Church that imposed restrictions on gay sex and pederasty ... nowadays we may think of the Christian faith as being overtly restrictive when it comes to sexuality, but you've to take into account the bestiality of ancient world to figure out as to why the church has tried to impose the kinds of restrictions that we know of ...


Sh.Gemal, I think you are just scared - I mean, a lil' bit more than you should normally be :) No Congressman will @ # ! * a page if the latter does not agree beforehand to being f  u c k e d ... I mean, come on, these people are not raping or something!
Title: Great LORs
Post by: scores on December 12, 2011, 03:50:21 PM

What do you mean, F. Korbee? Ancient Greeks were really freaks and @ # ! * e d boys in the way it's described in here ... it was the Church that imposed restrictions on gay sex and pederasty ... nowadays we may think of the Christian faith as being overtly restrictive when it comes to sexuality, but you've to take into account the bestiality of ancient world to figure out as to why the church has tried to impose the kinds of restrictions that we know of ...


Sh.Gemal, I think you are just scared - I mean, a lil' bit more than you should normally be :) No Congressman will @ # ! * a page if the latter does not agree beforehand to being f  u c k e d ... I mean, come on, these people are not raping or something!


Actually, I think Sh.Gemal has misunderstood this whole thing - I mean, which page would refuse to go with a Congressman (get @ # ! * e d, to put in your words) were he given the opportunity?! When they decide to become pages for these statesmen, they have taken into account that they may be required to perform certain services of these kind - actually, that's what these pages do, truth be told! But they get in exchange great LORs, e.g., that catapult them to blue-blood schools like Harvard and Columbia!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: pretamanger on December 20, 2011, 10:52:51 PM
Yes.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Erastes_eromenos_Staatliche_Antikensammlungen_1468.jpg)
The bearded man is depicted in a traditional pederastic courtship gesture, one hand reaching to fondle the young man, the other grasping his chin so as to look him in the eye. The youth is putting up symbolic resistance only.

Greek pederasty, as idealized by the Greeks from Archaic times onward, was a relationship and bond between an adolescent boy and an adult man outside of his immediate family, and was constructed as an aristocratic moral and educational institution. As such, it was seen by the Greeks as an essential element in their culture from the time of Homer onwards. The term derives from the combination of pais (Greek for 'boy') with erastēs (Greek for 'lover'; cf. eros). In a wider sense it referred to erotic love between adolescents and adult men. The Greeks considered it normal for any man to be drawn to the beauty of a boy - just as much if not more than to that of a woman. What they disagreed upon was whether and how to express that desire. Pederasty is closely associated with the customs of athletic and artistic nudity in the gymnasia, delayed marriage for gentlemen, symposia and seclusion of women. It is also integral to Greek military training, and an important factor in the deployment of troops.

The ancient Greeks of the pederastic city-states were the first to describe, study, systematize, and establish pederasty as an institution. The origin of that tradition has been variously explained. One school of thought, articulated by Bernard Sergent, holds that the Greek pederastic model evolved from far older Indo-European rites of passage, which were grounded in a shamanic tradition with roots in the neolithic. Another explanation, articulated by Anglophone scholars such as William Percy, holds that pederasty was formalized in ancient Crete around 630 B.C. as a means of population control, together with delayed age of marriage for men of 30 years.

The Spartans however were said to practice chaste pederasty. Where allowed, a free man was usually entitled to fall in love with a boy, proclaim it publicly, and court him as long as the boy in question manifested the traits prerequisite to a pederastic relationship: he had to be kalos (καλός), "handsome" and agathos ((καλός), good, brave, just, and modest. The boy was expected to be circumspect and not let himself be easily won. Generally, the role of the lover had many of the characteristics of that of legal guardian, similar to the role of male relatives of the boy.

Socrates, Plato, Aeschines Socraticus, and Xenophon described the inspirational powers of love between men though decrying its physical expression. Upon the death of Plato the presidency of the Academy passed from lover to lover. Of the Stoics, Chrysippus, Cleanthes, and Zeno fell in love with young men. Socrates, as represented in Plato's writings, appears to have favored chaste pederastic relationships, marked by a balance between desire and self-control. By setting aside the sexual consummation of the relationship, Socrates essentialized the friendship and love between the partners. He pointedly criticized purely physical infatuations, for example by mocking Critias' lust for Euthydemus by comparing his behavior towards the boy to that of a "a piglet scratching itself against a rock". That, however, did not prevent him from frequenting the boy brothels, from which he bought and freed his future friend and student, Phaedo, nor from describing his erotic intoxication upon glimpsing the beautiful Charmides' naked body beneath his open tunic. Socrates' love of Alcibiades, which was more than reciprocated, is held as an example of chaste pederasty. Plutarch and Xenophon, in their descriptions of Spartan pederasty, state that even though it is the beautiful boys who are sought above all others (contrary to the Cretan traditions), nevertheless the pederastic couple remains chaste.

Male relationships were represented in complex ways, some honorable and others dishonorable. But for the vast majority of ancient historians for a man to have not had a youth for a lover presented a deficiency in character. Plato, in his early works (the Symposium or in Phaedrus), does not question the principles of pederasty and states, referring to same-sex relationships:

[...]

Social aspects

The erastes-eromenos relationship was fundamental to the Classical Greek social and educational system, had its own complex social-sexual etiquette and was an important social institution among the upper class. Pederastic relationships were dyadic mentorships. These mentorships were sanctioned by the state, as evidenced by laws mandating and controlling such relationships. Likewise, they were consecrated by the religious establishment, as can be seen from the many myths describing such relationships between gods and heroes (Apollo and Hyacinth, Zeus and Ganymede, Heracles and Hylas, Pan and Daphnis) and between one hero and another (Achilles and Patroclus, Orestes and Pylades). It is interesting to note that the Greeks tried to project a semblance of pederasty (read: propriety) onto these last two pairs, despite a great deal of evidence that the two myths were originally intended to symbolize egalitarian relationships. In general, the pederasty described in the Greek literary sources is clearly an aristocratic institution.


What??


Nothing strange about it, kaps! Not only was pederasty an institution in ancient Greece, it was an ARISTOCRATIC institution! It was also fundamental to their educational system, with Socrates, Plato and the like having had had their preferred students (the mentorship type of thing, you know).


F.Korbee, there were also women, not only men who engaged in such relations - Sappho was one such lesbian, for instance. The word "lesbian" derives from the name of the island of her birth, Lesbos. Other sources, though, claim that one meaning of the word "lesbian" derives from the poems of Sappho, who was born in Lesbos.
Title: Re: How Much For Acropolis?
Post by: Question or Answer on January 02, 2012, 09:20:44 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmVLXUiaaXA&feature=related


Rafaella Carra's "A Far l'Amore Comincia Tu," episio?

(http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5148/raffaellath9.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTaE2BoCtNI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bppENAIrM_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0iq1rS1j5s&feature=related



She belongs to another generation - my parents were familiar with her!


The generation of Mireille Mathieu

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vR31wMtWL._AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPvKRDnAz5A&feature=related


Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens!


By now Greece is for sale. Including its famous Acropolis.

(http://assets.thefiscaltimes.com/TFT2_20101228/App_Data/MediaFiles/9/1/C/%7B91C600B3-C3A6-442C-8311-9A48BFE2F698%7D07062011_parthenon_sale_article.jpg)

Finland wants collateral (the Acropolis?) to support a second bailout.

http://www.ipoliticalrisk.com/2011/07/finland-eyes-acropolis-as-greek-debt.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255449/Greece-debt-crisis-German-MPs-suggest-Greek-Islands-Acropolis-sale.html


I don't think the Constitution of any European country would allow the actual sale of a part of its territories ...
Title: Re: How Much For Acropolis?
Post by: surepiro on January 08, 2012, 07:41:59 PM


Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens!


C visas?! Never heard about such visas - are you sure you have the right letter?
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: GiuGiaku on January 23, 2012, 06:39:07 PM


Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens!


C visas?! Never heard about such visas - are you sure you have the right letter?


Exactly, surepiro - mimosa doesn't know what she's talking about - unless she's playing the dumbass here!

Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: malachovsky on February 08, 2012, 02:04:11 PM

Oh please, don't get me started with Britney Spears - she's an idiot! Why do you blame the culture - she knew what she's getting into! They don't say in vain, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!"


Nobody's really feels sorry for her - she got a h e l l of a lot of money for singing all those crap songs, and now that new (crap) songs are out and she's not a diva anymore - we are supposed to feel bad for her?! I mean she got during those peak years a h e l l of a lot more money that a plain old folk makes in his lifetime! Pop singers are a bit like professional football players - they make all their money at once and then retire!

Fair game, I would say, you can't pretend you're not in the right place, at the right time! Everything happens for a reason! I mean, you have Madonna, she's 50+ and she's able to still make it - because she knows the nature of the beast she's fighting against and does not let herself down!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: Saction8 on February 11, 2012, 11:55:19 AM

Here are the key theorists on group formation and dynamics:

Gustave Le Bon was a French social psychologist whose seminal study, "The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind" (1896) led to the development of group psychology.

Sigmund Freud's "Group Psychology and the Analysis of the Ego," (1922) based on a critique of Le Bon's work, led to further development in theories of group behavior in the latter half of the twentieth century.

Jacob L. Moreno was a psychiatrist, dramatist, philosopher and theoretician who coined the term "group psychotherapy" in the early 1930s and was highly influential at the time.

Kurt Lewin (1943, 1948, 1951) is commonly identified as the founder of the movement to study groups scientifically. He coined the term group dynamics to describe the way groups and individuals act and react to changing circumstances.

William Schutz (1958, 1966) looked at interpersonal relations from the perspective of three dimensions: inclusion, control, and affection. This became the basis for a theory of group behavior that sees groups as resolving issues in each of these stages in order to be able to develop to the next stage. Conversely, a group may also devolve to an earlier stage if unable to resolve outstanding issues in a particular stage.

Wilfred Bion (1961) studied group dynamics from a psychoanalytic perspective, and stated that he was much influenced by Wilfred Trotter for whom he worked at University College Hospital London, as did another key figure in the Psychoanalytic movement, Ernest Jones. He discovered several mass group processes which involved the group as a whole adopting an orientation which, in his opinion, interfered with the ability of a group to accomplish the work it was nominally engaged in. His experiences are reported in his published books, especially "Experiences in Groups." The Tavistock Institute has further developed and applied the theory and practices developed by Bion.

Bruce Tuckman (1965) proposed the four-stage model called Tuckman's Stages for a group. Tuckman's model states that the ideal group decision-making process should occur in four stages and later added a fifth stage for the dissolution of a group called adjourning.

M. Scott Peck developed stages for larger-scale groups (i.e., communities) which are similar to Tuckman's stages of group development.


You could have simply reminded us of Wikipedia where to find the information that you have pasted here.


I can't believe it, countryman, when people rely on Wikipedia as a primary source of research - the way Wikipedia works is that it makes a summary of the points that different people - which means in practice "just everybody" - have made on the subject. Think about it! You are guaranteed to find there a h e l l of a lot of * & ^ %!
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: entitatitivity on February 14, 2012, 04:38:05 PM

Not really! As the glut of excess lawyers continues unabated (and as technology makes many things possible with far fewer lawyers) further adjustments are not far behind. Currently, the top 10-15% (gradewise) from 1st tier schools (roughly, the 40 or so best schools in the U.S.) go to two kinds of jobs. They go to "traditional firms" (these firms used to hire from the top 50%) and government jobs (that used to go to the bottom 50% of the class from the bottom 50% of the schools). Worse, after a year of so of looking for work, the very status of length out of law school is a permanent barrier to most employment. A history in a small firm, as a solo or in a District Attorney's Office qualifies an attorney only to go to work for herself or himself.

The "ticket punching" era has come to an end -- in some states slowly, in some states with great drama. In one instance (when the great "crunch" hit Texas) schools went from full placement by Christmas of the senior year to 20% placement at graduation in the course of one class. Virtually all of the Harvard class of '75 made partner by the 10-year reunion. Of the Harvard class of '85, so few made partner by the 10-year reunion it was a Section B front page story in the Wall Street Journal.


What really gets me is how does the site allows posters with avatars such as this one's? Is this place for law students or law whores?


Try to be a lil' bit more open-minded Hayde! :)


I don't really think they police the site to that extent - oh, one more thing, Hayde, law students and law whores are two different things indeed, just don't confuse them with each-other..


I concur, externship - it takes a while for a law student to become a law whore!
Title: Re:
Post by: manual on February 23, 2012, 01:54:19 PM
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I'd like to add that, as things are, nowadays it is gay people that are engaged in the freest and most equal relationships. They are already outside of the family and they have already, at least in part, rejected the "masculine" and "feminine" roles that society has designed for them. For straight men and women it is impossible to escape their rigid gender roles and those of oppressor and oppressed. Gay men and lesbian women don't need to oppress women in order to fulfill their own psychosexual needs, and lesbian women don't have to relate sexuality to the male oppressor. Homosexuality, love between people who are alike, is decisively distinct from heterosexuality in its structural feature that two people who are lovers of a third can themselves also, in principle, be lovers. Such provides an absolute precondition if rivalry and hate are to be ended.

I do believe gay men have a great deal to teach straight men about initiation and mourning the loss of power in the culture. Gay community is the story of what men gain by sacrificing the power conferred by gender when they come out of the closet. This is the pivotal real-life experience of every out gay man -- a usually terrifying sacrifice of conventional values and power. It is this that threatens most straight men (and the institutions they control), although it usually gets expressed simplistically in statements about envy or contempt of the gay people's sexual freedoms. The so-called straight man says he has no model for going "beyond the hero" and the conventional male warrior, forgetting or repressing the model right under his nose, represented for him in the gay community -- the man who has renounced, by whatever process and for various reasons, the "patriarchal dividend," i.e., the payoff for being part of the patriarchy. Straight men have much to learn from their homosexual counterparts about handling, containing, and transforming the pain that results from their "falling out" of unconscious identity with the patriarchy.

The breaking down of divisions between gay and straight is not going to happen by gay and straight meeting half-way. Because straight, by definition, is consonant with the gender system, the ground on which gays shall gradually converge with their straight brothers is on their side of the fence. If straights are serious about undermining masculinity, then they must accept the fact of their own deviance as defined by the existing order, and as long as they resist the idea and the reality of homosexuality, we can only see this as a deep-seated allegiance to the masculine gender that belies their professions of anti-sexism. Gays for their part refuse to accept that they are permanently set apart as the minority. This is a static view of the situation - viewed dynamically, they are the thin end of a wedge. Gayness is the wedge that splits open the gender system, in which feminine and masculine men fit together in the sexual division of labor: a double wedge in fact, as the rejection of heterosexuality and all it implies proceeds in parallel among both women and men. As more and more people follow gay people's lead and the gender system crumbles, they shall have to redefine themselves, no longer as a deviant minority but as the new majority, having only pity for the stubborn minority who still cling for a while to the traditional path.

Even when straight men are allied by common work, kinship or belief, they are still underneath it all enemy brothers; it is legendary how competition over women turns brotherhood into hate. Even when not immediately realized, this potential always lurks just beneath the surface, dividing men from one another and thus helping perpetuate the law of violence -- indeed it is the first precondition for masculine hierarchy. If men are to love one another, it must be possible for them to love one another in the full, sexual sense; as long as this is tabooed, inter-male competition can never be dissolved. What perpetuates this vicious competition, of course, is not the practice of heterosexuality, but the non-practice of homosexuality. It would disappear if the gender system were abolished, and human beings could relate to one another irrespective of biological sex, i.e., both homo and heterosexually, with the family accordingly replaced by a form of commune. But in this case, the resultant 'bisexuality' would be clearly established on the terms of homosexuality, or rather gayness. It would be a sexuality between essentially similar individuals, rather than essentially dissimilar, thus 'homosexual' rather than 'heterosexual.'


Thinking about being gay in such a way means to make a job out of it.



What exactly do you mean flashplayer? That thinking about being gay as having some kind of "mission" in life causes you so much trouble that you feel just like you're having a full-time job - one for which you're not being paid though? I'd assume this is the deduction one would normally make, although I'm sure someone out there could make the exact opposite argument starting from exactly the same premises..


http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/index.php?topic=3003617.msg5394090#msg5394090

What, Baikal?! I'm not sure what you exactly mean, but I'd speculate - are you saying that even not thinking about being gay as having some kind of "mission" in life still results in having a full-time job, for which you're not be paid - with all that w h o r i n g that goes on in corporate offices between that ugly boss and - God forbid you are a - cute guy?!

Just like the case is with women, after all! We tend to think men are employed and paid regardless of their looks and sexual attractiveness, but the truth is that that male objectification happens all too often, just like the case is with women treated first and foremost as sexual objects!

It kinda remembers me that song, "Takin' care of business, working overtime!"
Title: Re: How Much For Acropolis?
Post by: Flatbush on February 26, 2012, 01:20:57 PM

Ah Acropolis! Such a great place to visit! I've been only once in Greece (my brother used to live there) and I surely did take advantage to visit it! I can safely say that Athens is famous mostly because of Acropolis and its ancient history! When I immigrated to the US (my brother got me and several others to the US on special C visas :) all the people at my work was jealous I had been in Athens!


By now Greece is for sale. Including its famous Acropolis.

(http://assets.thefiscaltimes.com/TFT2_20101228/App_Data/MediaFiles/9/1/C/%7B91C600B3-C3A6-442C-8311-9A48BFE2F698%7D07062011_parthenon_sale_article.jpg)

Finland wants collateral (the Acropolis?) to support a second bailout.

http://www.ipoliticalrisk.com/2011/07/finland-eyes-acropolis-as-greek-debt.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255449/Greece-debt-crisis-German-MPs-suggest-Greek-Islands-Acropolis-sale.html


I don't think the Constitution of any European country would allow the actual sale of a part of its territories ...


Awesome, manual - and believe me, I'm not trying to steal the spotlight, I just wanna make a comment on the Greek debt thing.

Now, Question/Answer, are you kidding me with that Constitution thing?? Ex-Communist countries used to say to Germany (the Federal Republic of Germany, I believe it was called, before the Berlin wall fell) "We can not accept your investments, because it's against our principles!

When it comes to money, that Constitution you mention becomes a toilet paper to wipe the d i c k! Don't you see that Greece is becoming a b i t c h to European Union, to each and every @ # ! * i n g country in Western Europe! Not to mention that FMN female private part!
Title: Re: Pederasty as an Institution, in Ancient Greece
Post by: bologna on March 04, 2012, 02:03:26 PM
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Nietzsche described Jews as the truly great haters in world history.

Human history would be altogether too stupid a thing without the spirit that the impotent Jew priests have introduced into it — let us take at once the most notable example. All that has been done on earth against "the noble," "the powerful," "the masters," "the rulers," fades into nothing compared with what the Jews have done against them; the Jews, that priestly people, who in opposing their enemies and conquerors were ultimately satisfied with nothing less than a radical revaluation of their enemies' values, that is to say, an act of the most spiritual revenge. For this alone was appropriate to a priestly people, the people embodying the most deeply repressed [Zurückgetretensten] priestly vengefulness. It was the Jews who, with awe-inspiring consistency, dared to invert the aristocratic value-equation (good = noble = powerful = beautiful = happy = beloved of God) and to hang on to this inversion with their teeth, the teeth of the most abysmal hatred (the hatred of impotence), saying "the wretched alone are the good; the poor, impotent, lowly alone are the good; the suffering, deprived, sick, ugly alone are pious, alone are blessed by God, blessedness is for them alone — and you, the powerful and noble, are on the contrary the evil, the cruel, the lustful, the insatiable, the godless to all eternity; and you shall be in all eternity the unblessed, accursed, and damned!" ... One knows who inherited this Jewish revaluation ... In connection with the tremendous and immeasurably fateful initiative provided by the Jews through this most fundamental of all declarations of war - with the Jews there began the slave revolt in morality: that revolt which has a history of 2000 (two thousand) years behind it and which we no longer see because it — has been victorious.

    You do not comprehend this? You are incapable of seeing something that required 2000 years to achieve victory? — There is nothing to wonder at in that: all protracted things are hard to see, to see whole. That, however, is what has happened: from the trunk of that tree of vengefulness and hatred, Jewish hatred — the profoundest and sublimest kind of hatred, capable of creating ideals and reversing values, the like of which has never existed on earth before — there grew something equally incomparable, a new love, the profoundest and sublimest kind of love —and from what other trunk could it have grown?

    This Jesus of Nazareth, the incarnate gospel of love, this "Redeemer" who brought blessedness and victory to the poor, the sick, and the sinners — was he not this seduction in its most uncanny and irresistible form, a seduction and by-path to precisely those Jewish values and new ideals? [...] Was it not part of the secret black art of truly grand politics of revenge, of a farseeing, subterranean, slowly advancing, and premeditated revenge, that Israel must itself deny the real instrument of its revenge before all the world as a mortal enemy and nail it to the cross, so that "all the world," namely all the opponents of Israel, could unhesitatingly swallow just this bait? [...] Anything to equal the enticing, intoxicating, overwhelming, and undermining power of that symbol of the "holy cross," that ghastly paradox of a "God on the cross," that mystery of an unimaginable ultimate cruelty and self-crucifixion of God for the salvation of man? [...]

    Rome Against Judea, Judea Against Rome." Rome felt that the Jews were something contrary to nature itself, something like its monstrous polar opposite. In Rome the Jew was considered "guilty of hatred again the entire human race." And that view may be correct, to the extent we are right to link the health and the future of the human race to the unconditional rule of aristocratic values, the Roman values. The Romans were the strong and noble men, stronger and nobler than any people who'd lived on earth up until then — or even than any people who'd ever been dreamed up. By contrast, the Jews were 'par excellence' that priestly people of resentment who possessed an unparalleled genius for popular morality. Well, people have become merely tame or want to become tame — in front of three Jews, as we know, and one Jewess (before Jesus of Nazareth, the fisherman Peter, the carpet worker Paul, and the mother of the first-mentioned Jesus, named Mary). [...] It's true that in the Renaissance there was a brilliant, incredible re-awakening of the classical ideal, the noble way of evaluating everything. Rome itself behaved like someone who'd woken up from a coma induced by the pressure of the new Jewish Rome built over it, which looked like an ecumenical synagogue and was called "the church." But immediately Judea triumphed again, thanks to that basically vulgar (German and English) movement of resentment, which we call the Reformation [...]

    In what is an even more decisive and deeper sense, Judea once again was victorious over the classical ideal at the time of the French Revolution. The last political nobility which we had in Europe, in 17th and 18th century France, broke apart under the instinct of popular resentment — never on earth has there ever been heard a greater rejoicing, a noisier enthusiasm! It's true that in the midst of all this the most dreadful and most unexpected events took place: the old ideal itself stepped physically and with unheard of splendor before the eyes and the conscience of humanity — and once again stronger, simpler, and more urgently than ever rang out, in opposition to the old lie, to the slogan of resentment about the privileged rights of the majority, in opposition to that will for a low condition, abasement, equality, for the decline and extinguishing of mankind — in opposition to all that there rang out a fearsome and delightful counter-slogan about the privileged rights of the few! [...]


I am not quite clear as to how he (Nietzsche) goes about equating the French Revolution's Illuminism with Jewish values/religion - someone?


There's a post on the other board by cigalliere, [From Dawn to Decadence] related to this - here it is:

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It has been argued that the overthrown of the French nobility was, in fact, lamentable, since the aristocracy was learned, pursued high intellectual interests and culture. It was the poor, the peasants that gained the most, simply because they went from having absolutely no rights, to having more some rights. That in itself was a huge step for them. The story of the French Revolution's is the violent attack on the French nobility - the most dazzling and sophisticated elite in the eighteenth century European world. Or, as some would say, the triumph of mediocrity over the gifted fellow.
Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: bfi on March 05, 2012, 01:43:10 PM
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Freud himself who was to declare to Fliess in a letter dated 16 January 1898, that money did not form the object of an infantile wish which is why, as the well-known saying puts it, money proves incapable of "making one happy" as an adult. Yet, it can nevertheless give the impression of doing so, to the extent that it is capable as we know from Freudian metapsychology of functioning as the unconscious substitute and equivalent for any "object" whatsoever that is invested by the libido of the subject, be this oral, phallic or, especially, anal. [...]

On a material level, faeces represent for children their first possessions of value. Indeed, if children tend at first, roughly between the ages of 2 and 3, to take an auto-erotic pleasure in defecating (the first phase of the anal stage), they subsequently discover, around the age of 3 or 4, that they can obtain a more intense excitation by holding back their stool (the second phase of the anal stage). This is the source of the pleasure adults take in holding onto money, valuable objects or, yet again, time (as shown by the character-traits of avarice and parsimony, as well as the pleasure of hoarding or saving), in accordance with the equation of money and excrement. [...]

[...] In the most extreme case, according to the psycho-analytical argument that is often put forward, an overly active or precocious repression of the child's psychosexual development during the anal stage -- especially at the moment of toilet training -- can lead to the development, in later life, of a veritable obsessional (or, as it was sometimes called, anal) neurosis. Since the pathbreaking work of Oskar Pfister on the psychical structure of classical capitalism and the financial mind, an entire current of thought (Reich, Fromm, etc.) has endeavored to locate within the capitalist system the indices of a collective obsessional neurotic syndrome. Just as the child is under the illusion of the omnipotence of his or her excrements, so the capitalist would tend to believe that his or her money gives him or her the power -- and, above all, the right -- to do whatever he or she so desires.


So basically,

money = * & ^ %
capitalism = anal


Wow - it's unbelievable how much you learn on these boards!


For the sake of truth, there's more to the story, appropriate! When anality becomes a perversion in an individual it can result in a danger to that individual, and as a cultural phenomenon, to humanity. There is a clearly defined link between the anal-sadistic phase of sexuality and cruelty. An "instinct of cruelty" appears in Freud's "Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality," stating that there is an intimate connection between cruelty and the sexual instinct; whether active or passive, it also stems from the drive for mastery. Like mastery, cruelty involves the use of the object simply as a means of satisfaction. Sadism involves a pleasure derived from the object's suffering. The deriving of sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.

After the introduction of the death drive in 1920, the drive for cruelty gave way to the "destructive drive," understood as an external deflection of the death drive and described as aggressive when directed at objects. If it is taken up by the ego, the ego itself becomes cruel or sadistic. The ego then risks not only losing the object's love but also being subjected to the reprimands of the Superego. This agency, which equates with moral conscience, can demonstrate an extreme cruelty, according to the need for aggression aroused by present/past frustrations. Rebellious by nature towards what is nevertheless the necessary process of civilization, the human being is always able to display a "cruel aggressiveness" if circumstances allow it.

Contempt, indifference towards the object, cruelty, as well as false emblems of masculinity, faceless bureaucracy, violence, torture, the jackboot and the whip. Freud described the psychosexual development of the child, how he progresses from the anal-sadistic phase to the phallic (genital) one, at the end of which the Oedipus complex finds resolution. It is the smashing/destruction, a developmental arrest at the anal-sadistic phase, as opposed to resolution of the Oedipus complex, that characterizes Western culture.


Hahaha - you're so funny, kaps, I know what ya mean! ;)
Title: Re: How Much for Acropolis?
Post by: Romina on March 10, 2012, 03:48:04 PM






























































Title: Re: Do You Think The Congressional Page Program Should Be Terminated?
Post by: garçon on March 11, 2012, 06:43:31 PM

Since Madonna essentially based her career riffing off this archetype, it seems only natural. People claim that the word "virgin" in antiquity did not necessarily mean that someone never had sex. It meant instead that a woman was "without" man, which could also mean that she was an independent property owner. Some such women in classical cultures were also sacred prostitutes... or so the story goes. They acted as incarnations of the goddess. A parallel tradition exists still today in some sects of Hinduism with the devadasis. Plus there is that whole psychological trend in the modern culture called the "Virgin/Whore complex" which Madonna played to a tee.


Don't forget that it wasn't her midriff that freaked out folks and inspired girls to start chopping shirts into halter tops; it was the power of her sexuality, and her belief in it, the way she acknowledged it and controlled it, the way she self-consciously toyed with it. Madonna embraced and mocked the virgin/whore complex, ironically flaunted her body as a self-sold commodity and challenged the male gaze all the way to the bank. She proved that there were non-academic, street-savvy ways to express yourself and find empowerment. Madonna was a symbol of unrepressed female creativity and power — sexy, seductive, serious, and strong.


But of course, lochies, that's what spellit was saying, you did not have to repeat it once again! :)


The thing that I like about her is the "non-academic, street-savvy way" to find empowerment - because you can see from the thread that the practice is all-too-common in office buildings - D.C. ones as well - with all the pages debated about here a lil' bit!
Title: Re: Messenger of Life
Post by: Merci on March 12, 2012, 01:38:44 PM
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Natalia is so funny throughout the entire movie - here it is another one:

Sally: I saw a film the other day about syphilis. Ugh! It was too awful. I couldn't let a man touch me for a week. Is it true you can get it from kissing?
Fritz: Oh, yes. And your king, Henry VIII, got it from Cardinal Wolsey whispering in his ear.
Natalia: That is not, I believe, founded in fact. But from kissing, most decidedly; and from towels, and from cups.
Sally: And of course screwing.
Natalia: Screw-ing, please?
Sally: Oh, uh...
[thinking]
Sally: fornication.
Natalia: For-ni-ca-tion?
Sally: Oh, uh, Bri, darling, what is the German word?
Brian Roberts: I don't remember.
Sally: [thinking] Oh... um... oh yes!
Brian Roberts: Oh, no...
Sally: Bumsen!
Natalia: [appalled] Oh.
Brian Roberts: That would be the one German word you pronounce perfectly.
Sally: Well, I ought to. I spent the entire afternoon bumsening like mad with this ghastly old producer who promised to get me a contract.
[pause]
Sally: Gin, Miss Landauer?


God Bless Sally!


I find it a bit unusual that major producers would go to a place like KitKat (but apparently they did), so that Sally could hope to get a big movie contract just like that, by means of just a @ # ! * - or "bumsening" as she calls it - I guess, it's more like "wishful thinking" on her part! Maybe just one more sex act for her?!


Flatbush - Sally's character in Cabaret is not so much about demonstrating how one @ # ! * s her way up the social ladder - it is more of a statement on sexual fulfillment, the little things in life we tend not to place value on, until they're not any more available to us.

Remember, the story takes place in Berlin, just before the Nazis would come in power and do what they did, with everything and everyone.
Title: G A Y - C L O S E T
Post by: l i n o l e u m on March 13, 2012, 04:21:25 PM

[...]

So, there you have it - the degrees of the closet - or "outness" - if you like. It is controversial whether outing a gay person is beneficial to the society and/or that person himself. Personally I think it does not make sense to out plain folk people, while it does to out public figures/people in authority.

Usually, the outed gay individual would go after a journalist and his newspaper who outed him. But even such lawsuits have proved unsuccessful in the long run. Here it is the Cruise's case with South Park:


The relevant "South Park" episode -- entitled "Trapped in the Closet" -- self-consciously skirts the outermost edges of the First Amendment's protection for parody. A court would probably deem it constitutionally protected, but only barely. Defamation requires a "statement of fact" -- and for this reason, most parody, because of its fictional nature, falls outside defamation law by definition.

But this is the rare parody that, fairly read, does make a statement of fact. In the episode, the animated version of Cruise literally goes into a closet, and won't come out. Other characters beg him to "come out of the closet," including the animated version of his ex-wife, Nicole Kidman. The Kidman character promises Cruise that if he comes out of the closet, neither she nor "Katie" will judge him. But the Cruise character claims he isn't "in the closet," even though he plainly is. No one could miss that the episode's creators are taking a stance and making a statement -- that the real Cruise is gay and hiding it.

The use of the euphemism "in the closet" -- used to refer to someone who is homosexual but who has not admitted his or her homosexuality to friends, family, or the public -- is transparent. Interestingly, the episode itself indicates that its creators know well that they may be defaming Cruise, and they know of his litigious history. The joke disclaimer preceding the episode announces that "All characters and events on this show -- even those based on real persons -- are entirely fictional."

At the end of the episode, the Cruise character threatens to bring a suit (not on the gay issue, but in defense of Scientology) "in England" -- which lacks a formal equivalent of the First Amendment. And all the credits at the end use the pseudonyms "John Smith" and "Jane Smith." Since the episode does indeed make a "statement of fact," the parody exception to defamation law won't save "South Park." Thus, the creators' only weapon against a possible suit by Cruise is a First Amendment defense. Fortunately for them, the Supreme Court has interpreted the defense very broadly.

[...] It's one thing to co-opt part of a song, or use a trademark, in a parody: Without using part of the original, the parody won't work at all; no one will know what its target is. But it's another thing to embed what would otherwise be a defamatory statement in a work of fiction: This is defamation in satire's clothing, and it's only in order to protect true satire that that the Constitution has been held to also protect this lesser creature. Generally, courts don't want to get into the business of picking out nuggets of fact from an otherwise fictional account. The upshot, though -- and courts know this, and accept this cost in the service of free speech -- is that parody and satire inevitably may become a refuge for rogues who seek to defame without liability. That seems to me to be just what's happening with respect to the "South Park" episode.


I'm not sure I understand the "statement of fact" thing stressed upon by the lawyer here - SP maintains that the whole thing is a parody, characters are all fictional - everything seems OK, with the FA protection in mind.


It's quite clear in what meaning she's using the term "statement of fact" - that relating to First Amendment law, entitatitivity - wow, you appear to have chosen quite a difficult username!
Title: Re:
Post by: Lefka on March 16, 2012, 02:14:08 PM
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To be sure, Marcuse worked with Freud's Eros only, disregarding Thanatos - as far as engaging in war and being aggressive "consciously," there's nothing strange or unusual about it (think soldiers in war) - what was being discussed here, I believe, was whether Thanatos is to be called an "instinct" or not ..


So if I get this right, this means killing others (murder) in order not to kill ourselves (suicide) in order to keep up with lack of life meaning and the conscious awareness of our deaths?

And that the deaths of the "other" serves to establish a symbolic immortality buffer for one of the parties? Kind of like the child that is forced to concede its physicality and "trade it in" for a symbolic sense of self (i.e., self-esteem)?

I researched a bit where does all this TMT thing comes from - it looks like from existential philosophers like Sartre, Camus and the like. Now, I have not read Sartre/Camus - I simply came upon a piece quoted by one of your fellow posters on this board. Take a look at it and draw your own judgment, as to whether such a piece deserves being printed (in book form) or not - maybe it's just me, but I find it very odd to read about a guy who "feels his mouth full of his tongue" - I am sure he's missing something - and truth-be-told, in the "hood" where I live, he'd get that right advice off-prompt, if yanno what I mean!

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Existence is undoubtedly problematic and disturbing. In one weekend strip, in Sartre's "Peanuts," Schulz succinctly describes the horror of discovering one's own existence in the world:

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Linus: I'm aware of my tongue ... It's an awful feeling! Every now and then I become aware that I have a tongue inside my mouth, and then it starts to feel lumped up ... I can't help it ... I can't put it out of my mind ... I keep thinking about where my tongue would be if I weren't thinking about it, and then I can feel it sort of pressing against my teeth ...


Sartre devoted an entire book to this experience – his 1938 novel "Nausea" in which his character Roquentin is alarmed to discover his own actuality. But Linus sums the point up very well in a few frames.



malachovsky, I understand your approach and sense of practicality you're bringing here - but if you stay alone and do not socialize with other people - as it is the case with lonely people like philosophers - it's not surprising that similar thoughts will come to your mind.

Now, it's never occurred to me, but I am sure it has to other people - Sartre, being on the record, on this kind of thing.


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Flatbush - you've got to be kidding me!
Title: Re: Over-Accumulation of Power
Post by: b e ç k a on March 21, 2012, 01:26:15 PM


Well, it's on the people's (individuals') best interest to watch for the amount of consent it's giving its government, and especially that the latter is not abusing that power.

Curtailing their citizens' rights, for instance, overtly or covertly, by resorting to illegal tactics/strategies can result in "unintended and additional" consent being given, with the end result being over-accumulation of power.

To top it all off, the history has shown that people are kind of confused as to how they are to organize themselves, with the State having become the norm by now as the adequate form of modern social organization. So, in all likelihood, people are prone to giving that "consent" to be ruled to just everybody out there who happens to have the courage/attitude to go ahead and rule others the way they will - with all this meaning that, once in power, these guys won't care too much as to how their actions will be judged, feeling all-too-justified in what they do!


Here it is an interesting post on the other thread, bolo!


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Well, applewasp, what I have heard is this:

"Money is like a big giant d i c k. The fact that they'll give you some is only going to make you have more and more of it inside you."


No doubt about it, two feasts, sexual repression comes into play because of the economic factor.


So basically sexual repression is effectuated for economic purposes?


For the sake of truth, there's more to the story, appropriate! When anality becomes a perversion in an individual it can result in a danger to that individual, and as a cultural phenomenon, to humanity. There is a clearly defined link between the anal-sadistic phase of sexuality and cruelty. An "instinct of cruelty" appears in Freud's "Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality," stating that there is an intimate connection between cruelty and the sexual instinct; whether active or passive, it also stems from the drive for mastery. Like mastery, cruelty involves the use of the object simply as a means of satisfaction. Sadism involves a pleasure derived from the object's suffering. The deriving of sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.

After the introduction of the death drive in 1920, the drive for cruelty gave way to the "destructive drive," understood as an external deflection of the death drive and described as aggressive when directed at objects. If it is taken up by the ego, the ego itself becomes cruel or sadistic. The ego then risks not only losing the object's love but also being subjected to the reprimands of the Superego. This agency, which equates with moral conscience, can demonstrate an extreme cruelty, according to the need for aggression aroused by present/past frustrations. Rebellious by nature towards what is nevertheless the necessary process of civilization, the human being is always able to display a "cruel aggressiveness" if circumstances allow it.

Contempt, indifference towards the object, cruelty, as well as false emblems of masculinity, faceless bureaucracy, violence, torture, the jackboot and the whip. Freud described the psychosexual development of the child, how he progresses from the anal-sadistic phase to the phallic (genital) one, at the end of which the Oedipus complex finds resolution. It is the smashing/destruction, a developmental arrest at the anal-sadistic phase, as opposed to resolution of the Oedipus complex, that characterizes Western culture.