Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: guamguy on November 06, 2005, 06:12:01 AM

Title: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: guamguy on November 06, 2005, 06:12:01 AM
So I will miss about 40%-60% of Torts and about 65%-75% of Contracts. Am I already f**cked? I am learning BLL on my own and getting policy from the casebooks. The reason is that I don't think my professors are all that good at teaching, and most people say that profs. don't teach in LS, you teach yourself. I feel my time is put to better use when I don't attend class. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: trouble on November 06, 2005, 10:23:57 AM
With most of my profs, attendance is mandatory.  If you miss more than 5 or 6 classes in a semester, you're automatically failed.  I take it your profs don't enforce any such rule?
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: Jumboshrimps on November 06, 2005, 11:04:43 AM
Depends entirely on your school. At my school, nearly everything we need to know comes from the profs themselves, especially in torts and criminal law. Granted, you could get everything from other sources, but you have no idea which points your prof truly cares about. If you can get an outline from someone who HAS gone to class, you'll be able to narrow down the areas of focus.

Of course, I have heard that at some schools class has nothing at all to do with the material on the exam.

I don't blame you for skipping, though. If you really work hard, you may even have an advantage. You have a better chance of seeing the forest despite the trees. Profs are good at making you get lost in the trees. Then on the exam they want to see you describe the forest.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: lawsuperstar on November 06, 2005, 11:11:50 AM
I'm not absolutely positve, but I think I remember hearing something about ABA guidelines for class attendance.  I would check those to make sure that you're even allowed to miss that much class.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: antwan on November 06, 2005, 11:18:00 AM
2 good reasons why you are making a bad move
1) From what I understand, the ABA forbids anyone with more than 5 absences from passing a class at an ABA accredited school. In fact, you are prevented from even taking the final.

2) Many profs opinions on the law are diffent, even if only slightly, from what you will find in a commercial supplement, or even in your casebook. If you give them an answer that you got from an outside source, and they want something different, your answer will be wrong. Plus in class, many profs give clues as to what they are looking for on an exam, you will not know what they want stressed, and how they want answers presented.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: guamguy on November 06, 2005, 02:15:18 PM
To everyone talking about ABA guidelines, etc...

One of my classes is "attendance not mandatory" and the other is mandatory but the professor never does roll call.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: emarejay on November 06, 2005, 09:11:38 PM
I think mising a class every now and then doesnt hurt at all and may actually help a little bit, but missing as much as you claim to be missing seems pretty dangerous. Id say that you are screwed since you are even questioning how it will affect you. If you were stone cold positive that it was better for you to miss and not asking what others think, Id say youre fine. However since you state that you might be wrong, Id say you are wrong.

I really have a hard time understanding anyone that thinks 90 minutes outside of class is more beneficial than inside of class.

I know that if I missed 70% of my classes it would be directly linked to laziness and I would be screwed for finals. I never went to class in undergrad and it hurt me more than Id like to admit.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: uesdonk on November 06, 2005, 09:21:39 PM
I went to most classes and stayed in the middle of the class. At my school what mattered was that you did the reading or that you were extremely clever. I know of people who never showed up to class and did pretty well. There were also folks who didn't do much reading.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: BigPimpinBU on November 07, 2005, 05:08:33 AM
ABA guidelines aside, there are another two reasons why what you are doing is mind-numbingly stupid. (1) Everyone else is doing what you do, and going to class, which secures an advantage for themn - no matter what your professors do. (2)I guarantee you that the reason you are not going to class has less to to do with your stated issues and more to do with rationalizing a means of getting out of work.

Dude, you are shooting yourself in the foot big time.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: mynameismud on November 07, 2005, 01:46:10 PM
dont' listen to any of these people, especially the ones that say missing class is stupid.  you should be more concerned with what works for you, personally. 

me, i think law school is a joke.  i rarely go to class; my first year i missed less than half, this year i've skipped more than half the classes.  and i'm in the top third of my class at a first tier school.  i find that when i do go, i end up wishing i hadn't, because i can spend that time actually learning.  i have friends that went only to their first and last classes last year, and still did well.  i take at least a one or two week vacation to somewhere every semester.  i find that if i really want to, i can learn everything i need to know to nail an exam in a matter of days.  and i don't want to hear about how i won't know what i need to know to pass the bar or practice law.  you learn for the bar during barbri, and you learn for actual practice by doing grunt work for another attorney during your summers and first few years as an associate.

i'm paying $30 a year to get my law degree, i can set my own schedule.  i'm not going to go to class just so my professors (who are generally overpaid underacheivers) can feel important in front of a captive audience...although it's not really an audience if they're all on IM or playing fantasy football rather than listening.  i don't care to listen to other students who really have no idea what they're talking about.  besides, distancing myself a bit means i can actually carry on a discussion about something that's not in any way law-related.  alot of my colleagues can't do this.  they've completely lost what little social skills they had when they started, and like it or not, the way you interact with other people is often more important to your career opportunities than work ethic or grades.

to anyone who thinks not going to class is stupid - i'm actually enjoying myself these three years, and i'll laugh all the way to the bank when i'm the one who gets asked to return to the law firm i'm working at this summer after finishing my third year.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: giraffe205 on November 07, 2005, 02:01:37 PM
Whether you like it not, your summer firm will expect you to show up, do tedious work, and stay there for 8-10 hours per day, and to top it off, act like you worship everyone senior to you and the firm itself.

I'm not saying that you won't show up or are incapable of excelling, but chances are, if you find your time spent in a law class as extremely tedious and trivial, then you will have a hard time being content w/ the work that you will be doing over the summer. (At the same time, there are other career paths that you can take and still be very successful.)

Also, showing up for class can also be worthwhile if the prof considers you to be an intellectual who is worthy of recommendation to a firm or judge. Many profs have worked in the private sector and/or were judicial law clerks and still have very strong ties.

Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: Highway on November 09, 2005, 10:28:45 AM
I skipped about 70% of my med school classes (except the labs, of course) and did very well (3.9). That is just wrote memorization, though. It was easy to study the material on my own.

LS is more theory and application. Although I understand the rules and BLL that I read from the cases (let's face it, it ain't all that hard), going to class helps me to better synthesize everything and apply the rules to other situations.

My guess as for how you'll do on the final is really dependent on any curve your school imposes. My school is a B median. If I never went to any classes and just took the final after reading the E&E, I'd probably end up with a B or B-.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: guamguy on November 09, 2005, 06:08:53 PM
I skipped about 70% of my med school classes (except the labs, of course) and did very well (3.9). That is just wrote memorization, though. It was easy to study the material on my own.

LS is more theory and application. Although I understand the rules and BLL that I read from the cases (let's face it, it ain't all that hard), going to class helps me to better synthesize everything and apply the rules to other situations.

My guess as for how you'll do on the final is really dependent on any curve your school imposes. My school is a B median. If I never went to any classes and just took the final after reading the E&E, I'd probably end up with a B or B-.

Like you said, that is if you only read E&E and never went to class. In my case, I attended or attend class long enough to know what the professor wants in an exam, and once I know what it is, I apply it on my own, at home. I have used that time to take about 20 previous exams already and sent 5 of them to my professors who told me "You're getting it". I won't know until the tests, of course, but I feel above the median right now, and with some more practice, I feel I can go as high as I want to.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: Suen2b on December 08, 2005, 03:48:10 PM


   I never go to class unless I have to. Not only does it make it easier for me to manage my own life the way I want, but I also get more time to do studying FOR exams. Exceptions are courses I know the professors tend to favor students that show up. For these classes, I prepare extensively, sit in front and show real ineterst, no matter what I really think about the course.
   
   Many types of schools have mandatory policies, but finding out from higher-class students always helps. I know many students that tape lectures they know are vital. Not always very accepted, but helpful.

  All I can say is, not attending lectures have never hurt me, but don't stay away from a class you know the professor likes to see students attend. Know your school, know your lectures, be informed.

     I know many students that attend evey single class from the time they enter elementary school until they are professionals. I am not convinced this makes them more of a genius than lazy me ;)

   
   
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: dft on December 08, 2005, 08:09:00 PM
3.9 in med school? Sh-t.

How would you compare med school to law school? I would think that the first year of law school is harder than any individual year of med school but that med school on the whole is harder.

Two of my roommates disagree though. One's not in med school, he's in dental school; but he's a slacker by dental school standards because he's set for life (he's taking over his dad's lucrative dental practice). The other's father is a nephrologist, so maybe that's why he says that.

I skipped about 70% of my med school classes (except the labs, of course) and did very well (3.9). That is just wrote memorization, though. It was easy to study the material on my own.

LS is more theory and application. Although I understand the rules and BLL that I read from the cases (let's face it, it ain't all that hard), going to class helps me to better synthesize everything and apply the rules to other situations.

My guess as for how you'll do on the final is really dependent on any curve your school imposes. My school is a B median. If I never went to any classes and just took the final after reading the E&E, I'd probably end up with a B or B-.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: lawgirl on December 08, 2005, 09:00:16 PM
Wow. That's all I can manage at this point.
Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: weazylou on December 08, 2005, 10:48:18 PM
I missed as much class as you did at one of the top 3 law schools and have an A- average. (b/b+ is the average)
I worked loads at home though, I just have never been into attending class.  I think when you "home school" you end up having to do more work, because you need to teach yourself everythign (as opposed to what the prof cares about).  I don't see this as a bad thing though really.  My whole life (high school, college, law school) I have heard that this was going to bite me in the ass and it hasn't so far.

I just feel like I learn better when I sit on my living room floor surrounded by boooks and an coffee I.V.

I also don't think it is right for other posters to judge you are freak you out.  Your job in school it to learn-- period.  If you are learning in the manner that you feel most at ease with, then you shouldn't worry about what anyone else says.  You are an adult.

My only concern is that you might be missing out on forming relationships with your classmates or profs.  If you feel that way, join a journal or help a prof research; find something you like.

Good luck on your exams; I am sure you'll do fine!

Title: Re: Missing 60%-75% of class. Chance to do well on exams?
Post by: Suen2b on December 10, 2005, 03:25:43 PM


 Home school is the future of education. Not only does it give anyone more freedom and more sense of controlling ones own destiny, but you are also free of any bias being taught you from others.

   just like the oabove poster, I have never been into attending classes and have never attended a class unless I had to. IHigh school is the best example of what a waste of time it really is to attend classes, unless your knowledge base already is totally dysfunctional, then it might help you.