Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: jeffjoe on April 15, 2004, 02:52:50 PM

Title: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: jeffjoe on April 15, 2004, 02:52:50 PM
From a legal standpoint, are federal installations, like army bases, part of the state that surrounds them or do they stand apart based on federal sovereignty?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: holidayinspain on April 16, 2004, 06:02:51 AM
i am not sure what you mean by "federal soverignty," if you mean jurisdiction, I am pretty sure they are fully under military law and crimes are tried under their tribunals. As for civil law, i think those living on the base are domicilaries of the state where they "came from" or possibly the state where the base is... depending.

maybe that is not the question you are asking at all. you are posting in the students and grads board, so now that i think about it, you probably have had civpro and so what i said probably wasnt an answer you were looking for... eh...

hs.

Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: jeffjoe on April 16, 2004, 07:15:05 AM
Yes, I should have said jurisdiction.

I'm a soon-to-be student who snuck into this forum, so no civpro yet.

I've been told or read or something that federal property is specifically not part of a state and was looking for confirmation.

I'm considering getting into a pissing contest with a certain state and am using this forum to see if some of my ideas pass the laughter test.

 :)

i am not sure what you mean by "federal soverignty," if you mean jurisdiction, I am pretty sure they are fully under military law and crimes are tried under their tribunals. As for civil law, i think those living on the base are domicilaries of the state where they "came from" or possibly the state where the base is... depending.

maybe that is not the question you are asking at all. you are posting in the students and grads board, so now that i think about it, you probably have had civpro and so what i said probably wasnt an answer you were looking for... eh...

hs.


Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: holidayinspain on April 20, 2004, 07:54:44 PM
you mean real property-- like land?

there is a difference in terms of ownership and jurisdiction, i mean the bases in state X probably couldn't say "we are no longer part of state X we are now our own state" but in terms of jurisdiction over criminal matters they are probably free from state jurisdiction (and under military law) unless a civilian is involved... hmmm, there must be some military historians out there.... come out come out....


the military is so not my thing, so i admit all ignorance... sorry gruber.
Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: jeffjoe on April 21, 2004, 12:22:08 PM
A federal installation, like an army base.

you mean real property-- like land?

there is a difference in terms of ownership and jurisdiction, i mean the bases in state X probably couldn't say "we are no longer part of state X we are now our own state" but in terms of jurisdiction over criminal matters they are probably free from state jurisdiction (and under military law) unless a civilian is involved... hmmm, there must be some military historians out there.... come out come out....


the military is so not my thing, so i admit all ignorance... sorry gruber.
Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: holidayinspain on April 21, 2004, 03:54:30 PM
i know what he meant in terms of "an army base," what i am unsure about is whether gruber wants to know about the real property-(land) that the base is on, or about the court's jurisdiction over the goings on there...


thanks tho.
Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: jeffjoe on April 22, 2004, 10:09:33 AM
It more of a question of tax authority. 
Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: crr277 on May 10, 2004, 10:10:05 AM
No, federal installations (military bases) are real properties that belong to the federal government.  The only reason that I know this is because I'm an army brat.  Example, if you get a speeding ticket on a military base ($100+), you will pay the federal government.  The state has no control over a military base that is within its state.  What specific tax questions are you asking?
Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: jeffjoe on May 10, 2004, 10:17:47 AM
Income tax withheld from my pay for work I do on a military installation.  The tax is for a state that I am not a resident of and the state I live in does not have income tax.
Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: lawschoolafterdark on May 11, 2004, 07:01:08 AM
I am not a lawyer.  This is not legal advice.  If you want to look up the laew this is where to look.

Ala.Code 1975 40-18-2  Levied; persons and subjects taxable generally.

(6) Every nonresident individual receiving income from property owned or business transacted in Alabama;
----------
My non legal interpretation,

"property owned or business transacted in Alabama", The federal government "owns" the propery within the bounderies of the state. 

Further, in my non-legal opinion, under the long arm provisions, you are subject to jurisdiction in the state because you avail yourself of the state on a regular systematic way by traveling by puposefully coming to the state on a regular basis by choice to work.

You probably can file an Alabama tax return and get a refund.  I don't know that for sure. It is worth looking into.

Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: jeffjoe on May 11, 2004, 07:13:54 AM
By definition, federal property is not in the state, even though it is surrounded by the state.

I've filed a number of returns, but never received a refund of the taxes collected.

Under your interpretation, anyone who travels through Alabama to do business would have to pay income tax.  If I drive from Georgia to Mississippi to work, should this law apply to me?


I am not a lawyer.  This is not legal advice.  If you want to look up the laew this is where to look.

Ala.Code 1975 40-18-2  Levied; persons and subjects taxable generally.

(6) Every nonresident individual receiving income from property owned or business transacted in Alabama;
----------
My non legal interpretation,

"property owned or business transacted in Alabama", The federal government "owns" the propery within the bounderies of the state. 

Further, in my non-legal opinion, under the long arm provisions, you are subject to jurisdiction in the state because you avail yourself of the state on a regular systematic way by traveling by puposefully coming to the state on a regular basis by choice to work.

You probably can file an Alabama tax return and get a refund.  I don't know that for sure. It is worth looking into.


Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: lawschoolafterdark on May 11, 2004, 07:28:02 AM
No the "minimum contacts" should not "offend traditional sensibilities"  Civ. Pro stuff.

The property owned or income earned within the state part gets you.

I looked on Westlaw for your problem.  I could not find any case law 10% on point.  When it coimes to taxation.  The federal courts are usually pretty forgiving to the state tax man.

If you were an Alabama tax resident paying state taxes in another state you can deduct those taxes from your Alabama Income tax.

You have two options: 1. Be gald you don't have income tax in Tennesse and call it a wash or 2. go see a tax lawyer and let them figure it out. A reputable tax lawyer in Nashville would have certainly dealt with this before.
Title: Re: Are federal installations part of the states that surround them?
Post by: lawschoolafterdark on May 11, 2004, 07:30:41 AM
Look up the tax code Ala.Code 1975 40-18 and you can probably dig deeper than I did and get a more complete answer.  Go to www.lexisone.com and you can search the code for free.  It is a little clunky compared to regular lexis or westlaw.