Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: OnDayAtaTime on March 10, 2005, 01:28:51 PM

Title: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: OnDayAtaTime on March 10, 2005, 01:28:51 PM
Ok so I am in at both and my bf lives in Boston. Would it be "career suicide" to go to UConn to be closer to him and be happier and therefore probably do better?

I know I am being sorta silly and my gut says go to Emory...but I have absolutely zero desire to even go visit...which is a bad thing right?

 :'(

Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: Vintage14 on March 10, 2005, 01:42:58 PM
Personally, I'd say go where you'll be happier.  Life is short, and if you really love your boyfriend you should be in a situation where you can be together. I wouldn't say UCONN is career suicide either.  If you do well, you should be able to pull off a good job.  I also see you're waitlisted at BU, who knows, maybe you'll get in there in the next few months and then it's an even easier choice. 
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: OnDayAtaTime on March 10, 2005, 01:48:57 PM
Thanks for the kind words! That is the cutest dog...is it a Shih Tzu?
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: Vintage14 on March 11, 2005, 01:18:59 PM
Thanks! Yep, he's a shih tzu.  I love to torture him and play with his hair  :) Good luck with your decision! Go with what makes you happy...
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: maka nani on March 11, 2005, 01:26:20 PM
definitely go with what will make you happiest.

the only thing for me is when I was a sophmore I made the decision to NOT go participate in the NSE in Hawaii for the school year with my best friend, instead stayed home to be closer to my then boyfriend of two years.  As you can tell, I'm a little bitter I made such a decision based on him!  But I do not know your story...

I still say go with your gut and with what will make you happiest.  Personally, I would rather live in CT/New England.   :D
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: TradeWonk on March 11, 2005, 02:00:57 PM
All depends.  In all honesty you'll be at an academic advantage at Emory.  Uconn is just too far from Boston (about an hour) to keep from majorly messing with your life.. well, unless your BF drives up to see you every weekend.  But again, that's the problem.  Just close enough he can come often, but just far enough that when he does it won't be for a quick hello.  You don't have that kind of time as a 1L.  Unless you have discipline to stay away from him when busy, go to Emory where you'll have no choice.  It's still an easy flight into Boston (about an hour and a half tops?).

Also, when you finish, presumably you want to work in Boston?  IT's a competitive town.  You mught be better off with the higher ranked emory when competing against Harvard, BU, BC, Northeastern and more.  Uconn a good school but... you might get stuck in Hartford.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: OnDayAtaTime on March 11, 2005, 02:10:32 PM
Does anyone have any idea what the career prospects are like from UConn? According to NALP they look really bleak.

Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 11, 2005, 02:14:21 PM
If you have "absolutely zero desire to even go visit" Emory, then is it really what your gut is telling you to do?  Or is it what you think would be the smart career option?  

I just don't think Emory has so much better of a reputation to make it worth it for you.

And if you want to work in Boston, my best guess is that UConn would be as useful as Emory -- in part b/c there are probably so many more UConn alumnae in Boston.

About your BF, you're the only one who can make the call -- but remember that you're not 17 anymore.  Sometimes people who advise others to only do what's best for themselves are falling too much into a pretty over-individualist culture.  If you think your love will last, and it's a mature love, then go for it.  

But more important than everything else I said, the reason I think you should go to UConn is that I feel you're trying to get us to confirm a decision, rather than help you make one.  That's why I think your gut is saying UConn.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 11, 2005, 02:21:37 PM
Well, I wouldn't say Emory is that much better than UConn.  A little bit better, but not much.

UConn:

Employment rate of over 98%
Starting Salaries (2002 Graduates Employed Full-time)
Private sector (25th-75th percentile): $70,000 - $110,000
Median in the private sector: $85,000
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information: 68%
2/3 are employed in-state

Emory:

Just over 96% Employment rate.
Starting Salaries (2002 Graduates Employed Full-time)
Private sector (25th-75th percentile): $70,000 - $110,000
Median in the private sector: $91,386
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information: 96%
42% employed in-state.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: TradeWonk on March 11, 2005, 04:25:05 PM
Sleepy, salary stats are useless.  I have to assume the salary market in Georgia pays a lot less than the northeast where Uconn grads end up.  Emorys numbers are amazing for that percentage of southern placements to be factored in.

I like Uconn, and will go there if i get in.  but im not dying to get to Boston when im done.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 11, 2005, 08:52:46 PM
Um, can I ask why salary stats are useless?  I mean, why is your "assumption" better?
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: Everyman on March 12, 2005, 07:17:08 AM
Sleepy guy, I would be wary of UConn's salary stats.  Look at how low the report rate is, in all probability those that didn't report had lower salaries.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 12, 2005, 08:48:20 AM
You don't know that.  What makes you think that?  What information do you have, that I don't, that leads you to believe it's less than a random sample of grads?

I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong.  Just that for you to say something like without any reason is absurd.

Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: Everyman on March 12, 2005, 09:23:46 AM
I base it off of the assumption that those that would feel least comfortable disclosing their salary stats could have chosen not to do so for the following reasons:

(1) They are "ashamed" of their salary.  Humans with successes are much more likely to trumpet their accomplishments if they are better.

(2) They are angry or upset with the OCI office because they couldn't get a good job, so they refuse to participate.

I don't see well-paid lawyers who are content with their quality of law education refusing to participate, outside of a few stubborn outliers.  I'm not a huge Emory fan, anyway, at least not since I found out that it's like NYC-south there, so look at my post how you want.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 12, 2005, 10:07:00 AM
So it's just your instinct.  Hmmm...
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: Everyman on March 12, 2005, 10:18:41 AM
I'd call it common sense.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: TradeWonk on March 12, 2005, 10:21:26 AM
It really is common knowledget that salary stats are misleading at best, and generally worthless.  Assuming you didn't care where you lived, would you rather make 125K in NYC, or 90K in Atlanta?  

They say that even within one city it is misleading (e.g. Columbia vs. NYU) because there are a lot of firms that start at the same salary level, but within a few years you see massive discrepancies - depending on firm quality.  You need to look at the actual firms that recruit from there.



Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 12, 2005, 02:26:40 PM
It really is common knowledge...

They say...


Sure...

even within one city it is misleading (e.g. Columbia vs. NYU)

Give me a break.  What reputable person or publication ever said that there was a great difference in the quality of firms between the number four and five schools in the country?

Assuming you didn't care where you lived, would you rather make 125K in NYC, or 90K in Atlanta? 

When has it ever been the case that a person wouldn't care at all where they lived -- between Atlanta and NYC?  They're not exactly similar.  You can't remove this from the equation, unless you're talking about schools that are national (T14).  Conn and Emory aren't national schools. 

Besides, Atlanta isn't as cheap as it once was -- there's not as large a difference as you think between 90k in Atlanta and 125k in NYC.  It would still be more expensive in NYC, but not by that much.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: lil_token on March 12, 2005, 06:51:50 PM
If the schools were even close to comparable in terms of reputation, I would tell you to go to UConn, since you seem to predict that you would be happier there.  Your satisfaction with the school and its location is a critical factor in your overall success as a student, but I cannot escape the feeling that you have not given Emory even an ounce of fair consideration.  I think you would be an idiot to turn down a school that good without even visiting it.  Who knows -- you might love it down there? 

If your primary concern is your career prospects, you need to make a dilligent investigation into the placement and salary statistics of both schools before making such a drastic (and IMHO, foolish) decision.

And as someone who has lived in both Connecticut and Atlanta, my opinion is that ATL is clearly a better place to live. 
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 12, 2005, 10:44:37 PM
I do think it'd be worth visiting Emory if you haven't.

lil_token, you bring up a good point about making a "dilligent investigation into the placement and salary stats of both schools," but how is this done without falling back on some sort of quantitative data?  And the only quantitative data that I seem to be able to find is USN -- and perhaps school websites and numbers of OCI employers.   I'd love other suggestions...

Other than that I feel like information gets really slippery -- the "my brother-in-law told me" variety...
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: lil_token on March 12, 2005, 10:54:37 PM
I do think it'd be worth visiting Emory if you haven't.

lil_token, you bring up a good point about making a "dilligent investigation into the placement and salary stats of both schools," but how is this done without falling back on some sort of quantitative data?  And the only quantitative data that I seem to be able to find is USN -- and perhaps school websites and numbers of OCI employers.   I'd love other suggestions...

Other than that I feel like information gets really slippery -- the "my brother-in-law told me" variety...

I would look into the OCS information before relying on hearsay or USNews data.  The first for obvious reasons, the second because there are sometimes reporting errors in USNews data.  Furthermore, the US News data, even if correct, only gives a limited snap-shot of the placement and salary stats, because it doesn't account for things like students who willingly take more time to look for work to find a very particular position (thus they drag down the placement within 9 months of grad rates), students who choose lower-paying positions for lifestyle considerations, etc. The OSC will probably be able to provide you with such info. 
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: lil_token on March 13, 2005, 04:20:19 PM
My two cents, for what they are worth:

DO NOT choose your law school location based on a boyfriend or girlfriend!!! The vast majority of relationships that 1L's are involved in FAIL!  Unless the other person is in law school or has been through law school, they cannot understand and comiserate with what you are going through.  By 2L, you will be single, stuck at a school and city you probably hate, and you will be kicking youself in the ass because your professional aspirations were shattered (unless the school has placement/salary stats comparable to the one you gave up).
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 13, 2005, 09:21:38 PM
My two cents, for what they are worth:

DO NOT choose your law school location based on a boyfriend or girlfriend!!! The vast majority of relationships that 1L's are involved in FAIL!  Unless the other person is in law school or has been through law school, they cannot understand and comiserate with what you are going through.  By 2L, you will be single, stuck at a school and city you probably hate, and you will be kicking youself in the ass because your professional aspirations were shattered (unless the school has placement/salary stats comparable to the one you gave up).


Wow, I'm sure that makes her feel good.

And how would you know this?  Have you done a study on 1Ls? 

I have a really good friend who's a 2L.  She pretty much knew what she was getting into when she started law school.  She had a talk with her boyfriend and told him what being a law student meant.  She told him that she'd be "checking out" of life for eight months, and that she'd try her best to spend time with him, but she couldn't promise him anything.  He was really understanding.  They'd been in a relationship for 2 1/2 years and it survived through her first year of law school. The summer after 1L she committed a couple weeks to just spending time with him.  Now she's almost done with her second year of law school and things are really good for them.  She had a much less intense year in her second year and they've both learned to deal with what law school means.

So it worked for her.  And if it can work for her, it can work for anybody -- if you go into it with the right expectations and a relationship that's already strong.

Remember, you're not 17 (and while you might be 22, many of us are older -- perhaps even over 30).  I know your mom drilled it into your head to not go to college for your boyfriend.  But it's not puppy-love.  Treat it seriously.  A life-partner is more important than law school in the long run. 
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: thelawfool on March 13, 2005, 09:33:26 PM
so what you're saying is my 4 year relationship with my girlfriend will be ruined after one year of law school?  yikes, maybe i should choose another path here.  thanks for the info. 
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 13, 2005, 10:39:08 PM
thelawfool,

Yes, but what I believe she's actually saying is that, "By 2L, you will be single, stuck at a school and city you probably hate, and you will be kicking youself in the ass because your professional aspirations were shattered..."

Go figure.

Seriously though, it takes a strong relationship, a lot of caring and understanding, and perhaps a some dedicated time when you do have it (for instance, the summer after your first year).  It can work. 
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: XOXOHTH on March 14, 2005, 08:21:57 AM
My two cents, for what they are worth:

DO NOT choose your law school location based on a boyfriend or girlfriend!!! The vast majority of relationships that 1L's are involved in FAIL!  Unless the other person is in law school or has been through law school, they cannot understand and comiserate with what you are going through.  By 2L, you will be single, stuck at a school and city you probably hate, and you will be kicking youself in the ass because your professional aspirations were shattered (unless the school has placement/salary stats comparable to the one you gave up).

Aren't your professional aspirations shattered enough as it is by attending Boalttt?
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: lil_token on March 14, 2005, 11:40:27 AM
Actually, there ARE studies on this.  One in particular is cited in Law School for Dummies and I remember seeing references to a couple more in other pre-law books I have read. 

I realize some relationships are strong enough to withstand the test of law school, BUT if the relationship was serious enough, there would be some talk of marriage, engagement, co-habitation, etc.  If it's not puppy love, then sure it could work, but these studies and my observations of my classmates and friends indicate that most relationships with non-LS partners fail during the first year.

My two cents, for what they are worth:

DO NOT choose your law school location based on a boyfriend or girlfriend!!! The vast majority of relationships that 1L's are involved in FAIL!  Unless the other person is in law school or has been through law school, they cannot understand and comiserate with what you are going through.  By 2L, you will be single, stuck at a school and city you probably hate, and you will be kicking youself in the ass because your professional aspirations were shattered (unless the school has placement/salary stats comparable to the one you gave up).


Wow, I'm sure that makes her feel good.

And how would you know this?  Have you done a study on 1Ls? 

I have a really good friend who's a 2L.  She pretty much knew what she was getting into when she started law school.  She had a talk with her boyfriend and told him what being a law student meant.  She told him that she'd be "checking out" of life for eight months, and that she'd try her best to spend time with him, but she couldn't promise him anything.  He was really understanding.  They'd been in a relationship for 2 1/2 years and it survived through her first year of law school. The summer after 1L she committed a couple weeks to just spending time with him.  Now she's almost done with her second year of law school and things are really good for them.  She had a much less intense year in her second year and they've both learned to deal with what law school means.

So it worked for her.  And if it can work for her, it can work for anybody -- if you go into it with the right expectations and a relationship that's already strong.

Remember, you're not 17 (and while you might be 22, many of us are older -- perhaps even over 30).  I know your mom drilled it into your head to not go to college for your boyfriend.  But it's not puppy-love.  Treat it seriously.  A life-partner is more important than law school in the long run. 

Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 14, 2005, 12:11:38 PM
Actually, there ARE studies on this.  One in particular is cited in Law School for Dummies.

Okay... this doesn't give me any real information...

I realize some relationships are strong enough to withstand the test of law school, BUT if the relationship was serious enough, there would be some talk of marriage, engagement, co-habitation, etc. 

Nobody said there wasn't talk of co-habitation.  On the other hand, young people are putting off engagement and marriage until later these days anyhow.  And perhaps marriage isn't right for everybody (or even legal, as is true for people in same-sex relationships). 

If it's not puppy love, then sure it could work, but these studies and my observations of my classmates and friends indicate that most relationships with non-LS partners fail during the first year.

Again, I'd have to actually see such a study that you said existed.  Or I'd have to talk to the people you're talking about -- otherwise it doesn't pass a BS test.  There's a reason that hearsay isn't admissible in court -- partially the understanding that people embellish what others say to give themselves more credibility (not necessarily saying you're doing that, but how am I to know). 

In any case, I think that if you're in your early twenties or older, and have been in a relationship for more than a couple years, "puppy-love" isn't likely to be a problem. 

Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: lil_token on March 14, 2005, 12:26:30 PM
I gave you the source.  Go find the information before you call BS.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 14, 2005, 12:31:10 PM
No you didn't give me the source.  You said that you believe the source was cited in "law school for dummies" (certainly a reputable publication if there ever was one).

You'll have to excuse me if I don't drive to the bookstore, find the citation, drive to the library, look up the book, and make a copy. 
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: lil_token on March 14, 2005, 12:37:09 PM
No you didn't give me the source.  You said that you believe the source was cited in "law school for dummies" (certainly a reputable publication if there ever was one).

You'll have to excuse me if I don't drive to the bookstore, find the citation, drive to the library, look up the book, and make a copy. 

It's as reputable as any other pre-law genre book. 

Your unwillingness to verify a source is not evidence of untruthfulness on my part.  Try looking at alternative sources, get creative, do a google search.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 14, 2005, 12:49:32 PM
True, but your inability to specify anything more than what your friends said and what you saw in a pre-law book doesn't make me believe your original claim either. 
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: lil_token on March 14, 2005, 01:45:42 PM
True, but your inability to specify anything more than what your friends said and what you saw in a pre-law book doesn't make me believe your original claim either. 
I cited an authority that amounted to more than hearsay, which is more than half the people on this site do when telling someone information about law schools. So why is it that a study I cite in a much less important context is all of the sudden unacceptable authority?
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on March 14, 2005, 01:53:28 PM
You said there is a study -- that's all. 

It's like saying that there's a poll.  But how am I to know how the poll was conducted, whether it was scientific, what the sample was, etc. 

Knowing that somewhere out there a study exists doesn't prove anything.  And it's not like all I have to do to find it is google it.

Regardless, I don't think we're going to come to some agreement about whether it's a good idea to stay with a sig. other in your first year of law school, or to plan a future with a sig. other included.  I suppose everybody just has to make up their own mind.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: BAFF213 on March 19, 2005, 10:19:30 PM
tag
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: F05HOPEFUL on March 19, 2005, 10:23:04 PM
Sleepy, salary stats are useless.  I have to assume the salary market in Georgia pays a lot less than the northeast where Uconn grads end up.  Emorys numbers are amazing for that percentage of southern placements to be factored in.

I like Uconn, and will go there if i get in.  but im not dying to get to Boston when im done.

The biggest market for Emory grads is NYC.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: BAFF213 on March 20, 2005, 09:42:43 AM
Not true - the majority of Emory grads work in the South - the biggest market is Atlanta.

Sleepy, salary stats are useless.  I have to assume the salary market in Georgia pays a lot less than the northeast where Uconn grads end up.  Emorys numbers are amazing for that percentage of southern placements to be factored in.

I like Uconn, and will go there if i get in.  but im not dying to get to Boston when im done.

The biggest market for Emory grads is NYC.
Title: Re: Would it be crazy to take Uconn over Emory?
Post by: waitingsucks on March 20, 2005, 10:35:22 AM
The largest market for Emory is NOT NYC.

41.6% remain in GA, with 37.5% staying in Metro Atlanta
25% in DE, DC, FL, MD, NC, VA, SC
18% in NY, NJ, PA