Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 09, 2005, 08:58:32 PM

Title: The Howard Law/HBCU Law Schools Thread
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 09, 2005, 08:58:32 PM
This is the official BLSD thread for Howard University School of Law and other Historically Black College and University law schools.  The members of the BSLD have observed that every year the new admissions cycle invariably produces many new posters who, in turn, raise many questions regarding the decision to attend Howard or other HBCU law schools as opposed to other predominantly white law schools.  Therefore, the members of BLSD have decided to consolidate these and other discussions regarding HBCU's for the benefit of future posters.

This thread represents a compilation of over 30 Howard & HBCU law school threads appearing on the BLSD from March 2005 to December 2006.  To better assist your research of Howard and other HBCU law schools, please use the index below:




HOWARD COMPARO's

Page        Topic                             Link                                                       

1      Howard v. Catholic      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg408087.html#msg408087
10     Howard v. GW            http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg573263.html#msg573263
17     Howard v. T14's         http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg599262.html#msg599262
47     Howard v. UVA         http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1023952.html#msg1023952
71     Howard v. Wash & Lee  http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1082767.html#msg1082767
88     Howard v. Hastings    http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1202906.html#msg1202906
91     Howard v. FSU         http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1221554.html#msg1221554
91     Howard v. GSU         http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1221554.html#msg1221554
91     Howard v. USD         http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1221554.html#msg1221554
93     Howard v. Houston     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1242591.html#msg1242591
94     Howard v. Cardozo     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1294645.html#msg1294645
94     Howard v. GW part II  http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1261962.html#msg1261962
97     Howard v. GW part III http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1346262.html#msg1346262
112    Howard v. Rutgers     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1867586.html#msg1867586
217    Howard v. Wash & Lee  http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg2531072.html#msg2531072


HOWARD IN GENERAL

Page        Topic                             Link                                                         

2      Howard Moot Court       http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg460669.html#msg460669
3      Howard misconceptions   http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg460795.html#msg460795
30     Howard experience       http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg646602.html#msg646602
37     Frustration w/ admsns   http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg845707.html#msg845707
45     More frustration        http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg919674.html#msg919674
45     Merit scholarships      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg869314.html#msg869314
56     Chances with 2.5 GPA  http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1033615.html#msg1033615
75     A 1L's perspective    http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1093217.html#msg1093217
81     Wash law committee    http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1118559.html#msg1118559
77     Open house            http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1106549.html#msg1106549
88     For Biglaw in Cali    http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1202906.html#msg1202906
87     Waitlist              http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1197867.html#msg1197867
94     Grading curve         http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1254409.html#msg1254409
95     Appeal to Biglaw      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1297415.html#msg1297415
97     HBCU undergrads       http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1335727.html#msg1335727
100    General discussion    http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1517196.html#msg1517196
102    Job prospects         http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1732044.html#msg1732044
103    Latino applicants     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1816165.html#msg1816165
104    Effect of AA bans     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1828945.html#msg1828945


HBCU LAW SCHOOLS

Page        Topic                             Link                                                         

8      Texas Southern       http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg503184.html#msg503184
17     Southern             http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg597217.html#msg597217
17     NC Central v. Miami  http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg599199.html#msg599199
26     Texas Southern $ aid http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg635459.html#msg635459
61     NC Central           http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1075732.html#msg1075732
98     FAMU's LEAP program  http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1463131.html#msg1463131
113    FAMU                 http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg1915305.html#msg1915305
121    NC Central           http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg2197420.html#msg2197420
121    FAMU Admissions      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,27865.msg2190113.html#msg2190113




Title: Catholic or Howard
Post by: mash1 on March 10, 2005, 07:58:01 AM
Hi, I'm new to the board. I am deciding between attending Catholic and Howard because of their location. Any suggestions on which one is better? BTW, Howard did not give me any money, Catholic gave me a $15,000 scholarship. ???
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: Lexington on March 10, 2005, 10:49:18 AM
Hi, I'm new to the board. I am deciding between attending Catholic and Howard because of their location. Any suggestions on which one is better? BTW, Howard did not give me any money, Catholic gave me a $15,000 scholarship. ???

Since no one else has replied, I'll put in my 2..  Let me preface this comment by saying I am NOT an admissions authority  In fact, I haven't even been accepted anywhere (yet).

I believe Howard is T4, so Catholic can't be any lower, but that's the first thing I would check into.  Next, I would check salaries...  You should double-check, but I think Howard blows all the other t4's out the water in that regard.  Here's a link to the salary info. 

http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/median.php/1/desc/MSPublic

It's not what I would call user friendly, but you should be able to find what you need.   If you haven't been to that site before, there's all sorts of other info on the site that you may want to consider as part of your decision.

Even though it's T4 (??), Howard is known across the nation because it is an HBCU.  With that said, you should also consider where you plan to practice after law school.  IMO, you have more options with Howard but if you plan to stay local then you should be fine with Catholic.

Next, you should decide whether the HBCU experience is important to you.  Is it worth $45,000 over three years? 

Lastly, you've got to factor in your own circumstances and values.  Are you a prestige whore?  (like some people who shall remain nameless)  Maybe you plan to stay local after LS.  In that case, don't pay for something you don't need.  Or, maybe you can't qualify for private loans.  If not, what good is an acceptance if you can't afford it? 

All that said, *I'd* pick Howard  ;D

Ok, I'll shutup now... Blk_reign probably has some valuable input.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: mash1 on March 10, 2005, 03:42:22 PM
Thanks for the input! I didn't attend a HBCU for undergrad and really wanted that experience. I plan on staying local regardless (I'm from MD). As far as prestige, I'm not that concerned as long as I can find a job. I have a lot to consider before April 1st. :)
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: never2bsy on March 10, 2005, 06:29:07 PM
Thanks for the input! I didn't attend a HBCU for undergrad and really wanted that experience. I plan on staying local regardless (I'm from MD). As far as prestige, I'm not that concerned as long as I can find a job. I have a lot to consider before April 1st. :)

Go to Howard, what do you plan on studying?
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: mash1 on March 10, 2005, 09:40:10 PM
I plan on studying international law. I was almost completely conviced on going to Howard until I received an email from Case Western offering a $19,000 scholarship. This tempts me because they have a really strong international law program.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: Ragnar Danneskjold on March 12, 2005, 02:12:20 PM
Go to Case Western. It is a good school, and i think you will like it.

I am in no way biased just because i am waiting on an admit from Howard...

PLEASE go to Case.

just kidding.(?)
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: jsonlaw on March 17, 2005, 10:32:40 AM
I'd go to Howard...
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: rhapsody on March 23, 2005, 10:20:16 AM
It sounds like Case Western is the best choice of the three for you, since they have a strong program in a field you want to study and they offered you the most money.  Go for it!
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: kilroy55 on March 23, 2005, 10:37:12 AM
Its actually according to US News a tier 3, not that it matters.  Just got where you feel most comfortable.  Visit and see.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: Jebber on March 23, 2005, 10:40:53 AM
Catholic over Howard anyday... esp. w/$$. If you wouldn't mind going to Cleveland I'd take Case over both of them... but if you really want DC then Catholic has a much better rep.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: blk_reign on March 23, 2005, 10:59:38 AM
Catholic over Howard anyday... esp. w/$$. If you wouldn't mind going to Cleveland I'd take Case over both of them... but if you really want DC then Catholic has a much better rep.

I'd go to Howard if I had to choose between the two. Howard has a good reputation, as well as legacy. Their bar passage rate is good as well.HU has some excellent job placements and there are summer job programs offered in various cities that are exclusive to Howard Law School. There International Law program is decent and since you're looking for an HBC experience you know that you aren't getting that at CAU.

Since you're interested in International Law the location of HU's law school is unmeasured as well. It's across the street from the Embassy's of Ghana and Ethiopia. Less than ten minutes from Embassy Row.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: One Step Ahead on March 23, 2005, 11:14:44 AM
Case is an upper tier 2, I'd at least give them a visit before ruling it out.  otherwise Howard--btw try to see if they'll give you some aid given both the Catholic and Case offers.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: never2bsy on March 23, 2005, 02:19:46 PM
Go to Howard, you won't regret it.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: Ladyday on March 23, 2005, 02:24:33 PM
I'll bite. Mash make a poll, and then we'll all vote and decide for you. seems like the easiet solution.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: blk_reign on March 23, 2005, 04:41:07 PM
she's probably not coming back.. u know how they do..
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: mash1 on March 25, 2005, 12:34:23 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I've been away from my computer working and visiting Case. I've been to both Catholic and Howard before. Visiting Case put things into perspective. The city is crappy, but the school has a lot to offer. I spoke to Howard's financial aid and basically I have no chance of getting as much as Case is offering. Prospects after graduation are good at both places so it's still a toss up. . .
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: faith2005 on March 25, 2005, 01:52:21 PM
awww. Cleveland's not that bad.  :( I live in the DC area now, so you can definitely take that into account, but its not crappy. there are things to do and see and cool people esp. if you get to know the neighborhoods. little italy is nice and nearby. i lived on the east side and there are places to hang out. i think anyone of them would be a good choice. i heard that case is not necessarily a good place for black men. but if you talked to black students and they seemed happy, then I would take that into strong consideration. the only thing about i know for sure is that the school is mostly tech nerds, so you might have to leave campus to find parties and stuff.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: mash1 on March 25, 2005, 03:13:09 PM
awww. Cleveland's not that bad.  :( I live in the DC area now, so you can definitely take that into account, but its not crappy. there are things to do and see and cool people esp. if you get to know the neighborhoods. little italy is nice and nearby. i lived on the east side and there are places to hang out. i think anyone of them would be a good choice. i heard that case is not necessarily a good place for black men. but if you talked to black students and they seemed happy, then I would take that into strong consideration. the only thing about i know for sure is that the school is mostly tech nerds, so you might have to leave campus to find parties and stuff.

Hmmm. . . Is Case not good for black men or blacks in general, and how so? I admit I was exaggerating a bit about Cleveland (I'm partial to D.C.). As far as the students, they seemed happier about the financial aid and the prospects after graduation than about their current situation . ..
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: faith2005 on March 25, 2005, 03:16:53 PM
well i have friends who went to school in the area (the institute of art and case) and some of them had problems with the police on campus b/c they're constantly afraid of folks from East Cleveland coming thru and wrecking the place. its not that different from other city campuses i've visited though. i guess howard would be different b/c its in the hood, and the school is black too. so you can't really do the whole racial profiling, pull over every black man you see type of thing.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: mash1 on March 25, 2005, 03:47:50 PM
well i have friends who went to school in the area (the institute of art and case) and some of them had problems with the police on campus b/c they're constantly afraid of folks from East Cleveland coming thru and wrecking the place. its not that different from other city campuses i've visited though. i guess howard would be different b/c its in the hood, and the school is black too. so you can't really do the whole racial profiling, pull over every black man you see type of thing.

Ah...I see. Maybe it will help that I'm female,lol we'll see though
Title: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: user80 on April 08, 2005, 07:05:21 AM
Can anyone share a personal experience of someone who was faced with the decision between Howard w/ $ and a T14 w/o any?  My dilemma is this - Often people assume (generally speaking) that a JD from a T14 provides more opportunities than one from Howard.  However, one could argue that due to the debt incurred at the T14 vs. (in my case) practically none at Howard, a student could be more limited with the JD from a T14 because he/she would almost have to go to work in big law or into a (low paying) public/government situation, as the T14 (in this case) has a solid loan repayment program.  That rules out career tracks that fall in the middle of the pack.  Howard, although a third tier school, gets attention from firms who would not otherwise visit similarly ranked schools.  That said, the school also has a great alumni network. 

Has anyone selected Howard over a T14 or, conversely, rejected a full ride (particularly from Howard) for the full loan package at a T14?  Am I insane for even considering it?

Please, I'm not really interested in personal opinions or negative commentary - I have heard more of those than I care to consider - but I would greatly appreciate any first hand knowledge of someone's actual experience.

Thank you kindly,
Mila.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 12:35:44 PM
The best advice that I can give you is to visit Howard Law and visit the T14 that you’re considering going to. Sit in on a class, converse with some of the students on the yard and see what they have to say.. meet with professors who are directly involved in the field that you want to go into…


Congrats on your acceptances by the way.. the scholarship to Howard is something to be proud of.. and regardless of what some people may think.. I do believe that Howard should be ranked higher.. I really believe that it’s ranking is based on the fact that a lot of people in our society don’t value the education of an HBCU..

Title: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 01:10:59 PM
I felt that this deserved it’s own thread ;D

(http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper590/stills/me89x8p8.jpg)

The Howard University Law School, Huver I. Brown Trial Advocacy Moot Court Team triumphed April 2 at the American Bar Association Mock Trial Competition when it was the first team representing an HBCU in the 15-year history of the contest to take first place.

Eighteen law schools from around the nation, including the two-time reigning champion Harvard University, competed in this invitation only event. Chris Stewart, a third year law student and Huver I. Brown team member, believes his team's win was well deserved.

"It solidified the fact that although others think we are a third tier law school we are the best trial advocates," Stewart said. "No mathematical equation can calculate our excellence in trial advocacy." Tiers with first being the best and so forth rank Law schools. Stewart was actually named best advocate over all competitors in the competition.

While the Huver I. Brown team is composed of 20 law students who are in their second and third year, the tournament hosted only teams of four. In addition to Stewart: Adonna Bannister, Nisha Brooks and Derrick Simmons also represented the Howard Law School at the event.

These members of the team at the mock trial competition were chosen through a series of competitions. First, open slots for the Howard's moot court team are filled through an intra-school competition at the end of the spring semester. Once the team is chosen, in the fall semester the members compete among themselves to select who will represent the university at tournaments.

Errick D. Simmons, captain of the moot court team, said that the team worked hard to attain the recognition they are now receiving.

"Our success is due to our faith in each other as teammates, our diligent preparation and our belief that we will do whatever is necessary to represent our school and our community to the best of our abilities," Simmons said.

What really stood out to Simmons about the team's win was that it was in the midst of so many other noteworthy competitors. When the team advanced, Simmons said the announcer had to spell out the Howard so that the audience would not mistakenly think that Harvard University was being referred to.

Competing against such excellent teams is what made winning all the more special to Nisha Brooks, third year law student.

"The team we won against was good and we were just a little better," Brooks said. "It wasn't a slam dunk. It wasn't easy, we put in a lot of work, time, and a lot of late nights."

Team member, Derrick C. Simmons, expressed great excitement about his participation in the event.

"We are ecstatic about being able to contribute to the legacy of Howard law," Derrick said. He is appreciative of the backing the university community has provided. "I love Patrick Swygert for his vision, Dean [Kurt] Schmoke for his leadership of the law school, and faculty, staff, and students for their continued support."

The Huver I. Brown team has competed in four competitions this year and placed well in all of them. Another group of Huver I. Brown team members placed first in the eastern regional competition for the Association of Trial Lawyers of America (ATLA). Starting today and continuing to Sunday, April 10, the team will be competing in the association's national competition in West Palm Beach, Fla.

Reginald McGahee, Dean of Admissions at the law school and Huver I. Brown team member, is proud of the direction that the team is taking.

"As a former member to know that excellencies still present and is being surpasses makes me feel great," McGahee said. "The world knows what we have already known, one cannot tell by applications the passion, drive, determination and professionalism an individual has--we produce students with these attributes."
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 08, 2005, 01:16:05 PM
cool........very good! I love to see HBCUs represent! We will just have to take our respect.
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 08, 2005, 01:36:00 PM
Way to kick Harvard in the teeth!

F*ckin 1st tier law school....[shaking head & laughs]
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Ladyday on April 08, 2005, 01:55:02 PM
When the team advanced, Simmons said the announcer had to spell out the Howard so that the audience would not mistakenly think that Harvard University was being referred to.


Funny. Mofo's we're probably like  :o. That's good *&^% though.
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Muse on April 08, 2005, 01:56:07 PM
Wow congrats to Howard... (BUT NO NEED TO BASH Tier 1's!) >:(
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 08, 2005, 01:58:02 PM
You're right, Howard already took care of that.
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Muse on April 08, 2005, 02:10:31 PM
Hardy Har Har Sands. Lets just be happy that BLACK people kicked ass and took names Geez. :P
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 02:12:18 PM
You're right, Howard already took care of that.

basically LOL  :D.. but seriously... Howard definitely deserves their respect on this one.. this is their moment
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 08, 2005, 02:18:44 PM
You're right, Howard already took care of that.

LOL
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Muse on April 08, 2005, 02:20:32 PM
HBCU Edit: Where did that post go? ;)


 :o :o :o

I smell troll sh*t. Let me get out the baby wipes
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 02:31:05 PM
HBCU Edit: Where did that post go? ;)


 :o :o :o

I smell troll sh*t. Let me get out the baby wipes

Apparently we arent allowed to go there.  ;)

AJ 

Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 02:38:47 PM

Apparently we arent allowed to go there.  ;)

AJ 



there's no such thing as an ALL black law school.. so your statement was unfounded anyway  ::)
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 02:42:43 PM

Apparently we arent allowed to go there.  ;)

AJ 



there's no such thing as an ALL black law school.. so your statement was unfounded anyway  ::)

So there are white people at Howard?  I didnt know that so I apologize. 

At any rate, I dont care if there is an all black law school honestly.
  If there were such a thing for whites though you would probably agree that it would be met with harsher resistance and negative press than if it were the other way.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Ladyday on April 08, 2005, 03:02:51 PM
Jeebus! Why is it that everytime black people want to celebrate something positive in our community, here comes a white person trying to *&^% on it. When Johnnie past, we all gave the man respect, but noooooooooo here comes whitey talking about he wasn't a great lawyer. Now, we want to give Howard Law students their just props, and here comes whitey talking about reverse discrimination.  ::) Just stop and take a inner inventory about how much it really matters to you, and if it truly matters that much, u need to find something better to focus your energy on.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 03:05:27 PM
Jeebus! Why is it that everytime black people want to celebrate something positive in our community, here comes a white person trying to *&^% on it. When Johnnie past, we all gave the man respect, but noooooooooo here comes whitey talking about he wasn't a great lawyer. Now, we want to give Howard Law students their just props, and here comes whitey talking about reverse discrimination.  ::) Just stop and take a inner inventory about how much it really matters to you, and if it truly matters that much, u need to find something better to focus your energy on.

Why dont you read what I just said?  This post is just way off the charts.

  Oh, and is it or is it not a fact that Howard is all black? 

HTH
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 03:06:56 PM
why would you think that there aren't any white students at Historically Black Colleges & Universities? And why couldn't you just share in the congrats for the school instead of coming in here with that negative vibe?
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Muse on April 08, 2005, 03:09:00 PM
Howard is not ALL black. In fact there are white, asian, and latino students who go there. The faculty is pretty diverse as well.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 03:11:53 PM
why would you think that there aren't any white students at Historically Black Colleges & Universities? And why couldn't you just share in the congrats for the school instead of coming in here with that negative vibe?

I do believe Howard is all black.  But that aside, you're missing me by quite a bit.  There is no negativity in what I said.  It is simply reality.  I am allowed to have a different perspective and I am also allowed to not shy away from issue that might touch a nerve, simply becuase they might touch a nerve.

Like I said, I dont mind if there is or isnt.  There may still be a need in our society for such an institution although its hard to argue that it isnt discrimination.

All that aside, good job in the moot court competition by Howard.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Ladyday on April 08, 2005, 03:12:38 PM
Jeebus! Why is it that everytime black people want to celebrate something positive in our community, here comes a white person trying to *&^% on it. When Johnnie past, we all gave the man respect, but noooooooooo here comes whitey talking about he wasn't a great lawyer. Now, we want to give Howard Law students their just props, and here comes whitey talking about reverse discrimination.  ::) Just stop and take a inner inventory about how much it really matters to you, and if it truly matters that much, u need to find something better to focus your energy on.

Why dont you read what I just said?  This post is just way off the charts.

  Oh, and is it or is it not a fact that Howard is all black? 

HTH

No, my post wasn't off, I also read the original post u had here before it was deleted, and like blk_reign stated, it had a negative connotation and vibe. So, either you came here to participate in the congratulatory sentiments, or u came here to start trouble and be pessimistic.

And before you make blanket statements about an institution, u may want to do your research first

HTH
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 03:17:14 PM
why would you think that there aren't any white students at Historically Black Colleges & Universities? And why couldn't you just share in the congrats for the school instead of coming in here with that negative vibe?

I do believe Howard is all black.  But that aside, you're missing me by quite a bit.  There is no negativity in what I said.  It is simply reality.  I am allowed to have a different perspective and I am also allowed to not shy away from issue that might touch a nerve, simply becuase they might touch a nerve.

Like I said, I dont mind if there is or isnt.  There may still be a need in our society for such an institution although its hard to argue that it isnt discrimination.

All that aside, good job in the moot court competition by Howard.

the statement that you originally made (u know exactly what i'm referring to) was  negative.. you brought that whole "reverse discrimination" bs up.. like i said in the beginning that was very inaccurate

like ladyday stated.. before you make blanket statements about an institution.. you may want to do your research.. don't assume that a school is all black because someone may have told you that in the past.. be open to learning the truth about things on your own...that's exactly where all the misconceptions come from

Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 03:18:19 PM
Howard is not black. In fact there are white, asian, and latino students who go there. The faculty is pretty diverse as well.

Ok then, Howard has changed.  I was still under the impression that it was an all black institution.  It was at one time.

Good enough.

And Lady, no it wasnt negative.  I put a winkie in to clue people into the fact that I wasnt particularily concerned.


the statement that you originally made (u know exactly what i'm referring to) was negative.. you brought that whole "reverse discrimination" bs up.. like i said in the beginning that was very inaccurate

like ladyday stated.. before you make blanket statements about an institution.. you may want to do your research.. don't assume that a school is all black because someone may have told you that in the past.. be open to learning the truth about things on your own...that's exactly where all the misconceptions come from




When did it change?  Why when I search their website kind I find a class profile?


(http://www.law.howard.edu/student-org/sba/class2003/class2003group.jpg)

Show me the facts please.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 03:30:45 PM
Howard is not black. In fact there are white, asian, and latino students who go there. The faculty is pretty diverse as well.

Ok then, Howard has changed.  I was still under the impression that it was an all black institution.  It was at one time.

Good enough.

And Lady, no it wasnt negative.  I put a winkie in to clue people into the fact that I wasnt particularily concerned.


the statement that you originally made (u know exactly what i'm referring to) was negative.. you brought that whole "reverse discrimination" bs up.. like i said in the beginning that was very inaccurate

like ladyday stated.. before you make blanket statements about an institution.. you may want to do your research.. don't assume that a school is all black because someone may have told you that in the past.. be open to learning the truth about things on your own...that's exactly where all the misconceptions come from




When did it change?  Why when I search their website kind I find a class profile?


(http://www.law.howard.edu/student-org/sba/class2003/class2003group.jpg)

Show me the fact please.

howard never rejected anyone because they were white.. when most hbcu's were founded.. do you HONESTLy think that white people were applying there?

 oh COME ON  >:( ... if i pulled up a picture of a commencement class at ANY institution that wasn't an HBCU the majority of the students in the photo would be white..

(http://law.pepperdine.edu/images/2003_01.jpg)

(http://law.nus.edu.sg/alumni/images/Commencement2003grp2.JPG)

(http://www.law.sc.edu/development/annual_report/2004/images/comm_pic9.jpg)

(http://oncampus.osu.edu/v31n23/images/v31n23_carmen.jpg)
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 03:33:19 PM
So you are saying that Howard students are self-selecting.  Fine, that may be a good argument but the reality is that Howard at one time, at least, ONLY admitted African Americans.  You have yet to prove that this is still not their pratice.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Ladyday on April 08, 2005, 03:38:54 PM
See what I mean  ::)

Reign, too much energy. If we can't stay on what the specific purpose of what this thread was about, let's let it go. And people wonder why we need HBCU's...................
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 03:40:22 PM
So you are saying that Howard students are self-selecting.  Fine, that may be a good argument but the reality is that Howard at one time, at least, ONLY admitted African Americans.  You have yet to prove that this is still not their pratice.

i'm not saying that at all..and u do realize that howard wasn't founded by blacks right? you do realize that most hbcus were founded by whites??

i'm not even going to go there on the whole Plessy v. Ferguson case but there was a time.. NOT long ago when blacks were NOT admitted to WHITE institutions.. that very practice was NEVER practiced at an HBCU
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 03:42:45 PM
See what I mean  ::)

Reign, too much energy. If we can't stay on what the specific purpose of what this thread was about, let's let it go. And people wonder why we need HBCU's...................

Guess what, if my right to have an opinion, whether informed or not, wasnt suppressed we wouldnt be having this little tussle right now


Quote


So you are saying that Howard students are self-selecting. Fine, that may be a good argument but the reality is that Howard at one time, at least, ONLY admitted African Americans. You have yet to prove that this is still not their pratice.

i'm not saying that at all..and u do realize that howard wasn't founded by blacks right? you do realize that most hbcus were founded by whites??

i'm not even going to go there on the whole Plessy v. Ferguson case but there was a time.. NOT long ago when blacks were NOT admitted to WHITE institutions.. that very practice was NEVER practiced at an HBCU


Simply saying it over and over does not make it so.  Prove that a white student has ever attended Howard Law.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 03:44:55 PM
LOL there's a white student in the picture you posted ::)
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 03:47:17 PM
LOL there's a white student in the picture you posted ::)

I see a few light skinned African Americans.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: jdw112 on April 08, 2005, 03:49:45 PM
African-American: 85.1%
American Indian: 0.4%
Asian-American: 3.5%
Mexican-American: 0.0%
Puerto Rican: 0.0%
Other Hispanic-American: 3.1%
White: 4.3%
International: 1.7%
Unknown: 1.9%

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/directory/dir-law/brief/stude_03033_brief.php
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 03:53:57 PM
LOL there's a white student in the picture you posted ::)

I see a few light skinned African Americans.

there's a white guy in that pic...but here's your "proof"

The Women of Howard University:
A Tradition of Educational Involvement

Clifford L. Muse, Jr., Ph.D.

     One of Howard University’s extraordinary and unique contributions in the field of American higher education was its embrace of females as part of its University community. The University’s receptiveness to females is traceable to its founding in the 19th century, and is an ongoing positive commitment up to the present. The involvement of females in the University’s growth and development was mandated in 1867 by Howard’s incorporators, who also comprised the first Board of Trustees, when they adopted a policy ensuring the University forever open to all individuals irrespective of race, sex, creed, or national origin.1 The only constraint on female participation in Howard’s administrative and educational systems, from the beginning to the present, has been the availability of qualified women candidates.

     During the Reconstruction and Post-Reconstruction eras, females who were old and young, single and married, white and Black, native and foreign, literate, semi-literate and illiterate sought to participate in the Howard experience.2 In contrast to many other post-secondary institutions during these eras, Howard University welcomed females, enrolled them as students, and offered them employment opportunities as faculty and staff.

    The University’s first four students in 1867 were white females, the daughters of some of Howard’s first trustees.3 Two of these students, Emily E. and Sarah M. Robinson, advanced to Howard’s Collegiate Department by 1869.4 Howard graduated a female doctor in 1872 and 1874, a female pharmacist in 1887, and a female dentist in 1896 and 1900.5 Charlotte E. Ray, an African American female, was the University’s first female law graduate in 1872 and is considered the "first woman in the United States to graduate from a regular non-profit law school and also the first woman admitted to practice law before the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia."6

     The first graduates of Howard’s Normal Department in 1870 were all females.7 During the next three years, fourteen females graduated from the Department. Three women graduated from the Preparatory Department in 1872.8 Between 1890 and 1903, the University produced two female pharmacists.9 The valedictorian in medicine at Howard’s 1884 commencement was a Caucasian female.10 The first two female graduates of Howard’s dental school obtained degrees in 1896 and 1900; a female graduated from the University’s Theological Department in 1901.11

 http://www.huarchivesnet.howard.edu/0005huarnet/muse1.htm
 
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 03:56:21 PM
Good enough

Still, I carried this out becuase someone chose to have a stirring comment they didnt want to deal with simply deleted.  ::)
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 08, 2005, 04:02:19 PM
I am HBCU.EDU. I know everything about HBCUs as I will be a graduate of two. I know that this is a crazy ass convo, and you guys let the troll take you off Howard Law's success. Get back on task. The white man has too much control over your mind. Read Carter G. Woodson.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 08, 2005, 04:03:49 PM
Good enough

Still, I carried this out becuase someone chose to have a stirring comment they didnt want to deal with simply deleted.  ::)

i wasn't seeking your approval.. i was putting it out there for the rest of the naive people that view this board thinking that Howard is all white... and that it ONLY accepts black students.. or that accepting ONLY black students was ever a part of their practice
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 08, 2005, 04:04:24 PM
Good enough

Still, I carried this out becuase someone chose to have a stirring comment they didnt want to deal with simply deleted.  ::)

get me a soda Eddie. you are in Africa now. I own you.
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 08, 2005, 04:05:33 PM
Whatever, you all were stung and now you are defensive about it.

Tough *&^%
Title: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 08, 2005, 04:09:54 PM
Whatever, you all were stung and now you are defensive about it.

Tough sh*t

No you fool. The other members of BLSD posted in outrage. I am King. I just watched until I got tired of you upsetting my subjects. I own you just like I own Andrew. Both of you can get me a soda.     
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Ladyday on April 08, 2005, 04:16:07 PM
Whatever, you all were stung and now you are defensive about it.

Tough sh*t

No you fool. The other members of BLSD posted in outrage. I am King. I just watched until I got tired of you upsetting my subjects. I own you just like I own Andrew. Both of you can get me a soda.     

Oh my goodness, u get on my nerves but this post just really made me LOL. I'm still laughing......
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: user80 on April 09, 2005, 06:13:32 AM
Thanks for the advice blk_reign.esq - at this point I can use all that I can get.  I have done quite a bit of research on both schools.  I attended their open houses, met with professors and students and even gathered stats on employment and clerkship placement.  I found the facilities at the T14 a step above those at Howard (not surprising).  However, the wireless connectivity and lounge area complete with fireplace at the T14 comes at a cost... :-\  The fact is - none of those extras are necessary for my study of law.

I do know, however, that my alma mater is something that will follow me throughout my law career, and while I believe Howard can provide me with an adequate education, I do understand that this is a field that is very discriminate in such matters as the legal institution attended.

I'm getting down to the wire with this decision.  As much as I don't want to pay both first seat deposits, I think that is exactly what I may end up doing.

I don't mean to sound so down.  I realize how wonerful an opportunity it is to be accepted to such fine instituitions and to receive a merit scholarship at one.  I doubt that I can go wrong either way - but therein lies the dilemma...

Thanks again...
Mila.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Erapitt on April 09, 2005, 06:19:04 AM
What T14?  I think its a bit odd you aren't mentioning the actual school name.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: user80 on April 09, 2005, 08:26:08 AM
Sorry for being elusive - it's Georgetown.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Erapitt on April 09, 2005, 08:43:31 AM
Its all good :).  I have to say though I think you would be insane to go to Howard over Gtown.  The fact is, not NEARLY as many firms are going to recruit from Howard.  Its just the way it is.  I don't really see how one could choose a Tier 3 over any T25 school, but that is just me.

Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: user80 on April 09, 2005, 09:03:52 AM
Thanks for your input.  At times this decision does seem like a no brainer, but I do also have periods where a free law school education seems attractive, even if from a Tier 3 school.  I suppose it boils down to me being uncomfortable with $150,000 of debt.  I've heard that 10 years from that number will seem so small and insignificant, but now it feels like I'd be signing my life (or rather my potential for having one) away.

Thanks again...
Mila.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on April 09, 2005, 09:12:28 AM
I graduated from GW Law May 04' and took a couple of classes @ Howard law through the consortium....the only thing that stopped me from going to Howard for law school was the fact that I wanted to do a dual degree program in International Affairs.. Howard didn't have that.. now the majority of the people on this board have never sat in Howard's classes...gone to lunch or dinner with a lot of the students or competed in city mock trials against them.. I have.. and they hold their own quite well.....(they just won the national mock trial competetion... i posted the link on this board.. u should read the article)

everyone knows the name Howard.. just as everyone knows the name Georgetown.... at the end of the day there are Jobs for Howard placements... great jobs for Howard placements... top recruiters from big law firms recruit from Howard (just as they do from other universities).. there are city internships all over the country that are set up for Howard 2L& 3L.. i used to be jealous of some of the opportunities because they were limited to howard law students (no lie).. there are even firms that have scholarships solely for Howard Law students (ie. http://www.sidley.com/careers/work/chicago/diverse.asp)

Professor Ogletree of Harvard University has recruited some Howard students through the yrs to work on some of his cases... the opportunities are there... statistics will show you that 35% of all black lawyers are Howard graduates... that should tell you something..

people have told me that employers come to howard expecting well trained lawyers..and respect the University's tradition...a friend of mine got a summer assistantship @ Wilmer Cutler and Pickering her 1L and her 2L she had an In-house summer assistantship @ the Marriott.. I'm just saying that the opportunities are definitely there.. you just have to work hard.. just as you should at any law school.. going to Georgetown or anywhere for that matter isn't going to guarantee you a job....don't be hoodwinked into believing that.. u have to put in work..

one thing that howard does that a lot of law schools don't do is give crazy credit hours for 1Ls to insure that it's not a game... first or second semester (can't remember) they  were taking 21 mandatory credits while i was taking 15

pardon the lengthy post
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: user80 on April 09, 2005, 10:17:51 AM
The lengthy post?... This is exactly the sort of information I was fishing for.  I can't thank you enough for providing such detailed info on a Saturday morning!  My gut tells me that I could be just as successful at Howard, and perhaps even more so due to the decreased debt load after graduation.  This is why I'm at an impass...  I think in the end I'll have to have the courage to do what's best for me and not what everyone else thinks they would do if in my shoes...

Thanks again blk_reign.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on April 09, 2005, 10:43:46 AM
the fact that you would have a decreased debt load will certainly allow you to focus on your studies.. you won't be stressed or burnt out wondering where your money is going to come from or how you're going to pay your loans back after you're done with school.. with that off of your back you can do what you're set to do.. go to law school and focus on that solely..

you are welcome..i am sure that whatever decision that you do make will work out for you...but you do have to realize that the decision is yours.. regardless of your family.. your peers... people on lsd.. no one is going to walk in your shoes but you...
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on April 09, 2005, 10:53:44 AM
i'm going to be frank for a second... i'm sure that your family... friends.. church..peers etc.. are telling you to go to georgetown and that it's ok to have that 120k debt when you get out of school.. but try looking at it from this pespective.. when you're done with law school.. those debts are going to be yours... the people that have told you to go there won't have a 120k+ loan on their credit report...even if you're making 125k+ coming out of law school you will probably work 60-70 long unenjoyable hours in Big law

you'd probably a huge chunk taken out of your check for loans because the quicker  you pay it off..the sooner your credit score will change.. and the less amount of interest you'll incur.. only a small amount of your loan repayments will actually go towards principle over a long period of time .. the loans are going to be on your back not theres.. 

your interest rate on a house is going to be significantly higher with those student loans on your credit report (no matter what people tell you it hits your credit at least 3 times) your interest rate on a car note is going to be higher.. take  all of this into account when you're making this serious life altering decision
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 09, 2005, 10:56:15 AM
Don't be a fool. Go to Howard.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on April 09, 2005, 11:14:35 AM
i pulled out a financial calculator.. look at the amount of interest a person would pay pay for a 150k law school loan in 10 yrs :o   

  Loan Balance:     $150,000.00
  Loan Interest Rate:    8.25%
  Loan Term:    10 years
  Minimum Payment:    $0.00

  Monthly Loan Payment:   $1,839.79
  Number of Payments:    120

  Cumulative Payments:    $220,774.68
  Total Interest Paid:    $70,774.68
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: user80 on April 09, 2005, 11:30:49 AM
The financial debt is exactly what I've been considering.  At this point, it seems, I really am not looking for a reason to go to Howard.  I have plenty.  I'm looking for a reason not to.  I don't think the difference in ammenties justifies $150k in debt.  Nor does the wireless connectivity or the out of this world gym.  But... I do wonder about school reputation and the outside the class room experiences that the profs will bring to class.  Many of the profs at Georgetown are actively engaged in the field of law.  Several have argued cases in front of the Supreme Court and serve as consultants on current cases.  I'm not saying that these facts are core to my decision.  Just ad hoc information that I've come across and am factoring into my decision.

It really is helpful to have ya'll as a resource.  Many people in my environment have little to no exposure to law school and are basing their advice off of dreamy ideas.  However, this next step is very real for me and I can't afford to not look at all my options.  As blk_reign said, I'm the one who will have all that debt to pay back - not them.

Thanks -
Mila.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 09, 2005, 11:33:11 AM
Good enough

Still, I carried this out becuase someone chose to have a stirring comment they didnt want to deal with simply deleted.  ::)

Yo Ed, you can't be serious...

You carried this out because you wanted somebody to disprove your incorrect preconceived notion that Howard is and always has been an ALL black school.  I don't need to disprove this because I can see the facts have been set out in front of you.  I take it by your acquiesence that you accept these facts as finally given to you.  The only sad part in the matter is that you didn't know how to find that for yourself. 

I hope, for your sake, you don't contine this pattern of discovery into law school.  You will be in for a rude awakening if your approach to ideas that you don't agree with involves you asking the teacher to prove that something is not what you think it is (or should be).  They are no more inclined to prove to you that the sky is blue anymore than the members of this board are inclined to prove to you that Howard is not ALL black or ever was. 

Its very common knowledge that two wrongs don't make a right.  HBCU's have NEVER been in the practice of discriminating against white students, so your original comparison lacks not only merit but lacks standing. If you were bringing this claim in a court of law it would be dismissed as a 12(b)(6) motion for failure to state a valid claim before it could even waste one minute of court time.

To bar students based on race is not a practice that Blacks adopted even though it was legally practiced against Blacks from the time of Howard's inception and well into the 20th century for more than 100 years after Howard was founded. The important letter that you need to focus on in HBCU is the "H".  That means "Historically".  Not "ALL", not "ONLY", not "EXCLUSIVELY".

Your entire stream of posts wreak of a complete misunderstanding of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment.  Don't think we don't see what you're trying to get at. Because Whites in America have disrespected and violated this Constitutional right for so long, and have been consistently called on it, you feel you are calling out HBCU's for catering to the needs of Black students.  You're trying to equate the two. But you fail to distinguish between an institution that is created to help a certain race and institutions that bar certain races.  HBCU's are the former, not the latter.

We thank you for your concern though.  At least we all know that it has been an educational experience for ONE person on this thread. 
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 09, 2005, 11:57:02 AM
boy.. african americans are getting lighter and lighter these days ::)... Eddie c you're a horrible researcher...



(http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jdugas/dugasbio.jpg)
Professor Julian Dugas
Howard University School of Law
311 Houston Hall
202-806-8057

B.A., 1940, South Carolina State University
J.D., 1949, Howard University

Professor Dugas has been closely associated with the Howard University School of Law for more than fifty years.  He was a member of the graduating class of 1949.  After graduation, Professor Dugas began a long and distinguished career as an advocate for civil rights, social justice, and racial equality.

Professor Dugas has taught Trial Practice at the Law School for many years and has trained thousands of trial lawyers through the years, including some of the most accomplished legal practioners in the country.

Professor Dugas' office is located in 311 Houston Hall and he can be reached at 202-806-8057

http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jdugas/
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 09, 2005, 02:38:08 PM
Yo, I think it is generally believed that Howard is or was at one time or another an all black institution. 

I still believe that reverse discrimination goes in our society and in fact, showing a few white faces at Howard doesnt prove that it isnt an institutionally ingrained problem that you simply cant get at with statistics.  Its a two way street folks.  Please dont try to deny that black people carry the capacity to be racially biased.


So there are white people at Howard?  I didnt know that so I apologize. 

At any rate, I dont care if there is an all black law school honestly.  If there were such a thing for whites though you would probably agree that it would be met with harsher resistance and negative press than if it were the other way.


This is actually were I intended things to end with regard to Howard.




Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 09, 2005, 09:40:32 PM
Yo, I think it is generally believed that Howard is or was at one time or another an all black institution. 

I still believe that reverse discrimination goes in our society and in fact, showing a few white faces at Howard doesnt prove that it isnt an institutionally ingrained problem that you simply cant get at with statistics.  Its a two way street folks.  Please dont try to deny that black people carry the capacity to be racially biased.


So there are white people at Howard?  I didnt know that so I apologize. 

At any rate, I dont care if there is an all black law school honestly.  If there were such a thing for whites though you would probably agree that it would be met with harsher resistance and negative press than if it were the other way.


This is actually were I intended things to end with regard to Howard.






oooooooooooooooooooooooooo-k??
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Bluenine on April 11, 2005, 07:51:23 PM
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!



Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Bluenine on April 11, 2005, 07:54:52 PM
I understand your dilemma only too well...I'm trying to think of whether or not I'm going to send in the deposit on Friday
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: angmill08 on April 11, 2005, 10:20:36 PM
Caveat... I have no personal experience with either school. But my brother is a lawyer in D.C. and he told me that the top firms hire at least one Howard grads per year. So I think going to Howard, as long as you rank near the top of your class, won't hold you back in biglaw. But Georgetown has a great national rep -- Clinton is a Georgetown graduate -- and I think the name will open more doors for you outside of D.C. and in political circles.

Also, when considering the debt load, think of this: are you willing/able to spend 5 years after ls living cheap, working hard, and paying down your debt? If so, you can probably knock out a good bit of debt early on.
During the first 5-10 years after school, are you planning to devoting most of your energy to your career? If so, make investing in that degree a priority.
If, however, you really want to have kids soon after ls, or want to start investing in real estate or something else, then being debt free will enable you to do this. So I'd think about your priorities after ls. For the 5-10 years after you graduate, are family/investments/free time more important than maximized career options?
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: V00Jeff on April 11, 2005, 10:42:38 PM
OK, so I know you were asking for someone with experience with this question who doesn't just want to give their personal opinion...and I have no experience with this question, and I'm just going to give you my personal opinion.  Sorry :)

1) Someone mentioned that the top firms hire from the top 10% of Howard.  This is going to be true with most good schools; lawyers generally hold the top grads of lower-ranked schools in higher regard than mid-ranked grads from better schools (or at least, this is how the lawyers at my firm feel...and the general hearsay around website like this support that).  But you can't count on being in the top 10% of your class, and you'll be much better off in the middle of your class at Georgetown than at the middle of your class at Howard.  Again, I don't have any experience that supports this, but my guess is that the median salaries of Gtown and Howard graduates would show that this is probably true.

2) Debt.  I can't speak to your personal situation, because I'm not you, and I don't know all of the factors that play into your decision.  However, $12000 a year in debt is not that much if you are making $125K/year (plus bonus), as most Gtown private sector grads do.  And for other careers, you have LRAP.  I think of my law school as an investment...the more that I spend on it now, the better off I will be later in life.

3) Dangit, Georgetown is a better school.  They have better professors, are more selective in who they let in, have a much better reputation among judges, lawyers, and professors, and will give you better connections in life (especially within the D.C. area).  If you're going to shell out money for something, why not shell it out on this?

4) Did someone mention class size?  Georgetown has an incoming class of 600.  While this is huge compared to other law schools, it is still small compared with most colleges.  Were you ever really bothered by the large class sizes at your school?  My school has 6000 students, and I never thought twice about it.

Here, do this for me.  Think of five types of jobs that you'd like to have 10 years from now.  Let's say this list includes: 1)big law firms, 2)small/medium size law firms, 3)governmen agencies, 4)in-house counsels, and something else.  Go to the websites of these types of employers.  You will find many, many more Georgetown grads than Howard grads.  Don't assume that public interest/government type jobs aren't snobby about what schools they hire from.  Many are even more elitist than big law firms.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: user80 on April 12, 2005, 06:25:30 AM
OK, so I know you were asking for someone with experience with this question who doesn't just want to give their personal opinion...and I have no experience with this question, and I'm just going to give you my personal opinion.  Sorry :)

No problem - To be honest, the opinions of my peers faced with similar dilemmas could prove very helpful.  I was a bit frustrated when I posted the message.  Thanks for your comments - You raise several good points.  Particularly, the question of what better to invest in than my education?  You're right.  The truth is, I was soooooo happy when I received the letter of admission from Georgetown.  It was a reach and I half expected to be rejected.  When I received Howard's letter with the scholarship award, I was surprised, but not ecstatic.  It wasn't until I visited Howard and spoke with a few students that I started to see what an opportunity it could present.

That said, the last thing that I ever wanted to do was attend a law school where I HAD to place well (top 10%).  I plan to put 110% into being successful in law school, but I'm not naive/arrogant enough to believe that everyone else there isn't just as capable and determined.

Quote
Here, do this for me.  Think of five types of jobs that you'd like to have 10 years from now.  Let's say this list includes: 1)big law firms, 2)small/medium size law firms, 3)governmen agencies, 4)in-house counsels, and something else.  Go to the websites of these types of employers.  You will find many, many more Georgetown grads than Howard grads.  Don't assume that public interest/government type jobs aren't snobby about what schools they hire from.  Many are even more elitist than big law firms.

In the 5-10 years following law school, I would like to be employed in the following:

1) self employed - using my BS in EE, MBA and/or JD
2) Consulting
3) real estate investing/development
4) working in house for a corporation
5) small/medium sized firm

I'm not really all that interested in big law, but I am into big $$$ - Just kidding.  But, I'd be open to and able to stick it out in big law if necessary to repay loans or to maintain a certain lifestyle.  It's hard to say what my priorities will be then.  I certainly value my free time and have interests outside of work and school.  I also value having a comfortable lifestyle - I know that's a relative term and I've considered what "comfortable" means to me.

Thanks for sharing your 2 cents V00Jeff  ;)
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: loryivey on April 12, 2005, 07:17:55 AM
I put in my deposit at Howard yesterday.  I literally had a panic attack in the car because I am not sure that going to a Tier 3 school is the right decision, but I really do think that the additional debt is not worth it, unless you're sure you will work in a big law job.  I have friends at the law school, and know several people who went to my university who did really well at HUSL, and I really felt comfortable there, but still I'm really anxious about the whole decision.

The one thing I'll say about Howard is that I do not know how realistic it is to say I'll stay in the top 10% of the class, but basically if I don't, I'll lose a portion of my scholarship, which pretty much makes it hard to not be at least TRYING to stay in the top of the class. I know I'll be working my butt off either way, b/c that's just how I am, so I may as well at least have a free first year of school, if I don't end up keeping the whole scholarship.

My dilemna was a little different because I was offered a significant scholarship at another school (top 25) but I'd have to take out 50K of extra loans to go there even with the scholarship.

If you decide on Howard, do let me know.  Either way, I'll be interested to know where you'll be since I'm in DC.  Are you doing the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights summer prep?  I heard its a really good way of getting in gear.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 12, 2005, 06:35:09 PM
Today, I learned about some GREAT News In Kappa Alpha Psi, Fraternity,
Incorporated that will make the history books.

"Black College WireThe Howard University Law School's moot court team took
first place in the American Bar Association Mock Trial Competition, the first
team representing a historically black college or university to do so."

Three NUPES at Howard Law School On University Law School's moot court team
that Beats Harvard at National Moot Court Competition.  Two of the Brothers are
actual blood Brothers.

Bro. Errick D. Simmons- is president of the Howard University School of Law
Class of 2005 and served as Team Captain.  Delta Delta Chapter (1997) Jackson
State University.

Bro. Derrick Simmons- is Chief Financial Officer for the Student Bar
Association at Howard University.  Delta Delta Chapter (1997) Jackson State
University.

Bro. Chris Stewart- is the Vice President for the Student Bar Association at
Howard University. Beta Iota Chapter (1997) Xavier University.
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Statistic on April 12, 2005, 06:36:27 PM
so what... Harvard will get them next year!  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: user80 on April 13, 2005, 07:06:57 AM
If you decide on Howard, do let me know.  Either way, I'll be interested to know where you'll be since I'm in DC.  Are you doing the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights summer prep?  I heard its a really good way of getting in gear.

I've decided to pay the seat deposit at Howard and feel pretty good about it.  I think Howard is a great school and it fits with my personal needs and career goals.  Congrats to you on your decision, as well!  I hope to see you this fall or perhaps even before then, if you're in the DC area.

Are you considering the summer Intro to Legal Reasoning Program?  It sounds like a great opportunity.  Did the flyer leave you with th impression that there are 4 meetings each week or alternate sessions that meet only once a week.  Four meetings/week sounds like a bit much.  I'll be working full time through July and now that I am done with my Master's, I am looking forward to a little break before starting up in the fall.  Still, I think this would be a good opportunity and could possibly open some networking opportunities.

Let me know if your sending in the application.  I think I may send it in at least to find out more info.

Thanks again for sharing your experience.
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: Roxie on April 13, 2005, 08:23:36 AM
The Simmons brothers are twins.  I know their mother is proud!!
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: sweatsandtees on April 13, 2005, 11:37:23 AM
Hey Mila (user80),
Do you have a BS in EE? If you do, me too!! Well I will come April 30th.

Anywho, if you do, girl all I can say is this: GO TO GEORGETOWN!!! You will have the magic combo at graduation: you are a Black female (another assumption) with a science/technical degree and a Georgetown JD. Loans, schmloans. You will be in so much demand (assuming that you have a fairly high rank in LS) that you can definitely get the best jobs and pay those loans easy. And it seems like you want to do IP since you say you want to use your EE degree so you would be a great fit in any company, especially those that want "diversity" amongst their employees.

So I will reiterate. if you have any time to still put in the deposit for Gtown, I would say do so.

But that is just my blurb. Oh and by the way Congrats on your acceptances.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Statistic on April 13, 2005, 06:14:05 PM
Go to Georgetown. This is an easy decision...
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Bluenine on April 15, 2005, 10:27:09 AM
Just called Howard to let them know my deposit will be in on Monday.  Now I have a few more months to think about it.  This process is so expensive...
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on April 15, 2005, 10:58:42 AM
Just called Howard to let them know my deposit will be in on Monday.  Now I have a few more months to think about it.  This process is so expensive...

I know that you'll  make the best decision though…glad that you’re putting the seat deposit @ HU as well in case the finaid situation doesn’t work out @ GW
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: jsonlaw on April 27, 2005, 08:34:39 AM
i guess howard would be different b/c its in the hood, and the school is black too. so you can't really do the whole racial profiling, pull over every black man you see type of thing.

I thought Howard was in NW DC "The White side"
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: faith2005 on April 27, 2005, 08:42:25 AM
actually i should correct myself. howard's law school is in a different area than the undergrad campus. sorry mash1 and sankofa :) all of northwest isn't white, though it is gentrifying pretty fast.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: blk_reign on April 27, 2005, 08:47:26 AM
Howard University is located in NW DC.. there are different facets to the NW area.. HU's undergrad/dental/divinity/med/grad school are all located on the Georgia Ave NW strip which is mostly black populated..

Howard University School of Law is located in NW DC on Van Ness by the Embassy of Ghana & the Embassy of Ethiopia.. that area consists of mostly diplomats, whites and upper middle class minorities..

i guess howard would be different b/c its in the hood, and the school is black too. so you can't really do the whole racial profiling, pull over every black man you see type of thing.

I thought Howard was in NW DC "The White side"
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: blk_reign on April 27, 2005, 08:48:13 AM
agreed.. we were posting at the same time  ;)
actually i should correct myself. howard's law school is in a different area than the undergrad campus. sorry mash1 and sankofa :) all of northwest isn't white, though it is gentrifying pretty fast.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 27, 2005, 09:20:43 AM
Here is a harsh response.  If you cant make this decision how are you going to be a lawyer?  What is most important to you?  Where can you find that?  Go there!  See, it is easy.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: jsonlaw on April 27, 2005, 11:33:18 PM
actually i should correct myself. howard's law school is in a different area than the undergrad campus. sorry mash1 and sankofa :) all of northwest isn't white, though it is gentrifying pretty fast.

No problem!
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: jsonlaw on April 28, 2005, 12:14:14 AM
LOL there's a white student in the picture you posted ::)

I'm maaad late but im LMAO at the ignorance of some people!!
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Made4law on April 28, 2005, 01:11:16 AM
Very nice convo...Misinformed person comes to THE BLSD with biased and ignorant statements, gets a little spanking by the vets and educated in the process.  Nice ;) 
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: Abevigoda on April 28, 2005, 07:27:13 AM
I thought I'd add my two cents.  Catholic is not a very diverse campus at all, despite being in a minority neighborhood.  At the admitted student's weekend in April, I was surprized at who white everyone was, I didn't see more than a handful of blacks or hispanics while I was there.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 28, 2005, 08:24:16 AM
Look people there have been all black schools in the past and today there are, in the very least, other all black institutions within higher education such as fraternaties.  Im not saying its right or wrong or even that it shouldnt be.  I just think someone needs to chime in every once in a while and remind people that these things can go both ways.

HTH
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Bluenine on April 28, 2005, 08:29:02 AM
Look people there have been all black schools in the past and today there are, in the very least, other all black institutions within higher education such as fraternaties.  Im not saying its right or wrong or even that it shouldnt be.  I just think someone needs to chime in every once in a while and remind people that these things can go both ways.

HTH

*buzzer* Wrong again...Unfortunately, Black Greek Letter Organizations are not all-black anymore.

Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 28, 2005, 08:33:02 AM
ROFL are you Serious dude??? you can't possibly be serious..there have never been "all black schools" in the past... who's fault is it if white students didn't apply to go to those schools?? Blacks?  :D that's hillarious...

Black Greek Letter Organizations do not discriminate against other ethnicities... I know you don't want me to pull some pictures out again to discredit your claim... I have some time on my hands so I'd definitely do it...



Look people there have been all black schools in the past and today there are, in the very least, other all black institutions within higher education such as fraternaties.  Im not saying its right or wrong or even that it shouldnt be.  I just think someone needs to chime in every once in a while and remind people that these things can go both ways.

HTH
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 28, 2005, 08:40:33 AM
Look people there have been all black schools in the past and today there are, in the very least, other all black institutions within higher education such as fraternaties.  Im not saying its right or wrong or even that it shouldnt be.  I just think someone needs to chime in every once in a while and remind people that these things can go both ways.

HTH

Black HBCUs and BGLOs do not discriminate against other races. That is not our way. Now, like black said, if whites do not want to participate it's not our fault. I graduated from Morehouse (an HBCU) with a white boy and the black law school that I'm going to ,Southern University Law Center, has a 30% white student body.  Also, a white boy crossed with me when I became a Kappa. So, wtf?   
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 28, 2005, 08:53:07 AM
*buzzer* Wrong again...Unfortunately, Black Greek Letter Organizations are not all-black anymore.


"Anymore" being the key word, perhaps.

http://www.blackrefer.com/fraternity.html

I've been struggling for a while now to make something clear.  This is not a personal gripe.  Now, the idea that some of these groups are self selecting does not infer necessarily that discrimination doesnt go on.  We have it on our books that employers should not descriminate of the basis of many such compository factors that make people members of identifiable groups and yet it would be foolish to think that becuase we say it, the problem is solved.

I expect people to continue to be upset with me.  Thats fine but Ive said all I wanted to say.

 
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Bluenine on April 28, 2005, 09:02:52 AM
*buzzer* Wrong again...Unfortunately, Black Greek Letter Organizations are not all-black anymore.


"Anymore" being the key word, perhaps.

http://www.blackrefer.com/fraternity.html

I've been struggling for a while now to make something clear.  This is not a personal gripe.  Now, the idea that some of these groups are self selecting does not infer necessarily that discrimination doesnt go on.  We have it on our books that employers should not descriminate of the basis of many such compository factors that make people members of identifiable groups and yet it would be foolish to think that becuase we say it, the problem is solved.

I expect people to continue to be upset with me.  Thats fine but Ive said all I wanted to say.

 

What is the link supposed to mean?

Why do you think black people created these groups?
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 28, 2005, 09:24:06 AM
You know what screw it.. Do you know your history?? Seriously.. do you know the history of our country?? Do you honestly think that back in 1906,1908,1911,1913,1914 WHITE MEN AND WOMEN WERE ALLOWING BLACK MEN AND WOMEN INTO their fraternities and sororities??? I mean damn you can’t be that oblivious to the history of our country… They didn’t even want us in “Their” schools… Some still don't but I digress...

So what did we do? We FOUNDED fraternities and sororities as well.. but NEVER in the history of our organizations did we discriminate against whites, latinos.. ANYONE

Just because you pull up a lame ass website listing “black fraternities and sororities” means nothing… If you really want to know the deal.. and you don’t believe the people that are telling you otherwise..


Why didn’t you just apply to a HBCU to see what would happen?? Why don’t you ask some KNOWLEDGEABLE white people about the history of HBCUs and BGLOs? I posted the contact information of one of the White professors at Howard law school.. why don’t you email him.. he’ll set you str8..



*buzzer* Wrong again...Unfortunately, Black Greek Letter Organizations are not all-black anymore.


"Anymore" being the key word, perhaps.

http://www.blackrefer.com/fraternity.html

I've been struggling for a while now to make something clear.  This is not a personal gripe.  Now, the idea that some of these groups are self selecting does not infer necessarily that discrimination doesnt go on.  We have it on our books that employers should not descriminate of the basis of many such compository factors that make people members of identifiable groups and yet it would be foolish to think that becuase we say it, the problem is solved.

I expect people to continue to be upset with me.  Thats fine but Ive said all I wanted to say.

 
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Ladyday on April 28, 2005, 09:31:37 AM
LOL @ Reign. I feel ya but sometimes people just don't get "it".

But all the BS aside, what do you guys really feel about allowing white cats to join predominantly black organizations? The founder of NBLSA was speaking at the conference about one of the only things he in his life regrets is allowing white law students to join (but he felt pressure from law schools and other financial backers) cause the truth of the matter was, the only time we saw white students there was in Moot Court and Mock Trial competitions. And he felt that white students have enough resources, why did they also have to be involved and use Ours? I understood where he was coming from.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Bluenine on April 28, 2005, 09:36:27 AM
LOL @ Reign. I feel ya but sometimes people just don't get "it".

But all the BS aside, what do you guys really feel about allowing white cats to join predominantly black organizations? The founder of NBLSA was speaking at the conference about one of the only things he in his life regrets is allowing white law students to join (but he felt pressure from law schools and other financial backers) cause the truth of the matter was, the only time we saw white students there was in Moot Court and Mock Trial competitions. And he felt that white students have enough resources, why did they also have to be involved and use Ours? I understood where he was coming from.

Nothing is sacred anymore...

As extreme as it sounds, I really wish we had something to call our own...

Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 28, 2005, 09:43:31 AM
Girl I'm not mad  :D sometimes you have to change the tone when it comes to stupidity LOL..

In all honesty.. I do wish that our fraternities and sororities held a For Us By Us policy.. NOTHING is sacred as Blue has said


LOL @ Reign. I feel ya but sometimes people just don't get "it".

But all the BS aside, what do you guys really feel about allowing white cats to join predominantly black organizations? The founder of NBLSA was speaking at the conference about one of the only things he in his life regrets is allowing white law students to join (but he felt pressure from law schools and other financial backers) cause the truth of the matter was, the only time we saw white students there was in Moot Court and Mock Trial competitions. And he felt that white students have enough resources, why did they also have to be involved and use Ours? I understood where he was coming from.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on April 28, 2005, 09:59:55 AM
You know what screw it.. Do you know your history?? Seriously.. do you know the history of our country?? Do you honestly think that back in 1906,1908,1911,1913,1914 WHITE MEN AND WOMEN WERE ALLOWING BLACK MEN AND WOMEN INTO their fraternities and sororities??? I mean damn you can’t be that oblivious to the history of our country… They didn’t even want us in “Their” schools… Some still don't but I digress...

So what did we do? We FOUNDED fraternities and sororities as well.. but NEVER in the history of our organizations did we discriminate against whites, latinos.. ANYONE

Just because you pull up a lame ass website listing “black fraternities and sororities” means nothing… If you really want to know the deal.. and you don’t believe the people that are telling you otherwise..


Why didn’t you just apply to a HBCU to see what would happen?? Why don’t you ask some KNOWLEDGEABLE white people about the history of HBCUs and BGLOs? I posted the contact information of one of the White professors at Howard law school.. why don’t you email him.. he’ll set you str8..



*buzzer* Wrong again...Unfortunately, Black Greek Letter Organizations are not all-black anymore.


"Anymore" being the key word, perhaps.

http://www.blackrefer.com/fraternity.html

I've been struggling for a while now to make something clear.  This is not a personal gripe.  Now, the idea that some of these groups are self selecting does not infer necessarily that discrimination doesnt go on.  We have it on our books that employers should not descriminate of the basis of many such compository factors that make people members of identifiable groups and yet it would be foolish to think that becuase we say it, the problem is solved.

I expect people to continue to be upset with me.  Thats fine but Ive said all I wanted to say.

 

Youre missing my point entirely.  We (i.e. white people) may say that we dont discriminate on the basis of race or a lot of other things but the reality is that policy statements to that effect do not always comport with reality.  Here is a perfect example:  http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/04/sodexho-settles-racial-discrimination.php

IT CAN BE A TWO WAY STREET!  THATS ALL I AM SAYING! 

Black people and historically black institutions can and probably do or have had the same sort of under the carpet discrimination.  The problem I see is that its taboo and we cant ever talk about it because its been unfairly slighted in your direction for so long.  You have a certain bent that wont allow you to acknowlege that black people are as capable as white people of discriminating against whites, gays, people who keep fish as pets and so on...
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: Bluenine on April 28, 2005, 10:26:48 AM
You know what screw it.. Do you know your history?? Seriously.. do you know the history of our country?? Do you honestly think that back in 1906,1908,1911,1913,1914 WHITE MEN AND WOMEN WERE ALLOWING BLACK MEN AND WOMEN INTO their fraternities and sororities??? I mean damn you can’t be that oblivious to the history of our country… They didn’t even want us in “Their” schools… Some still don't but I digress...

So what did we do? We FOUNDED fraternities and sororities as well.. but NEVER in the history of our organizations did we discriminate against whites, latinos.. ANYONE

Just because you pull up a lame ass website listing “black fraternities and sororities” means nothing… If you really want to know the deal.. and you don’t believe the people that are telling you otherwise..


Why didn’t you just apply to a HBCU to see what would happen?? Why don’t you ask some KNOWLEDGEABLE white people about the history of HBCUs and BGLOs? I posted the contact information of one of the White professors at Howard law school.. why don’t you email him.. he’ll set you str8..



*buzzer* Wrong again...Unfortunately, Black Greek Letter Organizations are not all-black anymore.


"Anymore" being the key word, perhaps.

http://www.blackrefer.com/fraternity.html

I've been struggling for a while now to make something clear.  This is not a personal gripe.  Now, the idea that some of these groups are self selecting does not infer necessarily that discrimination doesnt go on.  We have it on our books that employers should not descriminate of the basis of many such compository factors that make people members of identifiable groups and yet it would be foolish to think that becuase we say it, the problem is solved.

I expect people to continue to be upset with me.  Thats fine but Ive said all I wanted to say.

 

Youre missing my point entirely.  We (i.e. white people) may say that we dont discriminate on the basis of race or a lot of other things but the reality is that policy statements to that effect do not always comport with reality.  Here is a perfect example:  http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/04/sodexho-settles-racial-discrimination.php

IT CAN BE A TWO WAY STREET!  THATS ALL I AM SAYING! 

Black people and historically black institutions can and probably do or have had the same sort of under the carpet discrimination.  The problem I see is that its taboo and we cant ever talk about it because its been unfairly slighted in your direction for so long.  You have a certain bent that wont allow you to acknowlege that black people are as capable as white people of discriminating against whites, gays, people who keep fish as pets and so on...

Just leave historically black institutions out of this, because you really are uninformed.

Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on April 28, 2005, 11:17:46 AM
find me an article relating to your claims about discrimination at HBCUs and BGLOs... then we'll proceed with the discussion


.  Here is a perfect example:  http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/04/sodexho-settles-racial-discrimination.php
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: mash1 on April 28, 2005, 07:31:33 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I decided to attend Case because of the money, and their health law program. The next three years of my life will be spent in Cleveland, and to think I just returned home from undergrad. 8)
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: Bluenine on April 28, 2005, 07:53:22 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I decided to attend Case because of the money, and their health law program. The next three years of my life will be spent in Cleveland, and to think I just returned home from undergrad. 8)

Congrats on making a decision! I wish I could do the same...
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: faith2005 on April 29, 2005, 09:38:45 AM
Good Luck at Case!!  :)
Title: Texas Southern
Post by: monimone on April 29, 2005, 01:31:05 PM
Does anyone have any info on Texas Southern?  I'm not considering applying but was curious about the school.    ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 29, 2005, 01:48:25 PM
Does anyone have any info on Texas Southern?  I'm not considering applying but was curious about the school.    ??? ??? ???

Why are you curious if you are not applying?
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: monimone on April 29, 2005, 02:06:06 PM
Because I heard about it from a friend that will be attending.
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 29, 2005, 02:11:59 PM
Monimone- Welcome to BLSD


You can read 22 post from actual students at TSU. You can get alot of info regarding the TSU program if you click the link below. Are you attending a HBCU for undergrade? http://www.4law.net/rating/censura.php?tsid=1&csid=1a61ca608187e853eb0b66e0a5ea976a&cmd=details&itemid=200

You can also check out their website: http://www.tsu.edu/academics/law/
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: blk_reign on April 29, 2005, 02:13:24 PM
she can also go to texas southern's website like other curious people..  ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: jsonlaw on April 29, 2005, 02:14:25 PM
Does anyone have any info on Texas Southern?  I'm not considering applying but was curious about the school.    ??? ??? ???

I visted the school recently met with the dean and students faculty and got good and bad.

Bad...As you know TSU has a low bar passage rate for first time exam takers...with about 78% eventually passing the Bar after the THIRD TRY!  I was told by some students that the dean made some negative comments about african american students....Also TSU has two kinds of reputations in Houston.. One is the "Old School Rep" where TSU was a decent school before the low bar passage rate. "The new rep" is disparaging of course because of the low bar passage rate.  Also TSU has a high retention rate..30% of the entering class doesnt make it to graduation.

Good...If you graduate in the top 10-15% of your class make law review join organizations you almost a shoe in at recruiting law firms...(the Sunbelt Minority Recruitment Program) recruits there among other law firms. The law school is very diverse graduating 92%, yes 92% of all black attorneys and 75% of Latino attorneys in TX.  There seems to be a nurturing environment that is prevalent in the HBCU experience.  

Hope that helps...
Peace
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: jsonlaw on April 29, 2005, 02:19:55 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I decided to attend Case because of the money, and their health law program. The next three years of my life will be spent in Cleveland, and to think I just returned home from undergrad. 8)

Congrats!! Dont die of boredome...Cleveland is unfortunatly the most :exciting" city in Ohio  :-[
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: Made4law on April 29, 2005, 02:38:17 PM
I visited the school 3 weeks ago, because I had narrowed my choices down to the 2 Houston schools that accepted me, STCL and TSU.  I too had heard many negative things about TSU, like the facilities were horrible, bad rep and the attrition rate was brutal.  As a matter of fact I seriously thought about skipping the visit all together.  Boy would that have been a mistake.

From the moment I entered the building everyone was as friendly and helpful as possible.  My tour was only supposed to last 30 minutes it lasted 3 hrs and was some of the most fun I had on my visit to Houston.  First off the facilities are vastly improved.  The school has just underwent an 11 million dollar renovation, because of a big flood a couple of years back and the student body were in trailers,so they have remedied the facility issue.  All classrooms are wired for laptop use, the entire school has wireless access.  Every room has been renovated, it really looks good, like a new building.  The ABA has put the school on notice about their attrition rate and in response they are becoming more selective. The school has always made an attempt to give students who would not normally have a chance at law school an oppurtunity.  They still believe in this concept, however they are toughing their standards to assure that the attrition rate stays relatively low.  The goal of the school is 10-15% attrition rate.

The staff was polite and knowledgeable many judges current and past teach at the school.  The school has a real family atmosphere.  While walking around the school I had no less than 7 students wish me luck and say they hope to see me next year.  I met 3 3L's that were each headed to very good jobs after graduation, one will be a staff attorney for an oil company and 2 more were headed to large firms within the city.  The alumni is huge do to the fact that they have been around for so many years, and the school is actively persuing increasing the connection with the alumni.

Parking is plentiful and free.  The school is in the hood, but close to downtown and has easy freeway access.  Tuition is cheap and they are still striving to give as much financial aid as possible.  If you have the oppurtunity to visit I encourage you to do so, I assure you you will be surprised and pleased.

Law School is what you make it, if you want a supportive and family like environment I suggest you visit the school. The students seemed very serious about their work.  I would encourage you to not listen to a lot of people on LSD...if you are considering Thurgood Marshall, give them a visit and try and get a tour with Tiffany Simmons, very cool lady, who loves the school and will tell you the real story.  

If you want to know how my South Texas visit went P.M. me. My momma told me if you don't have anything nice to say don't say nothing at all.
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 29, 2005, 02:47:51 PM
I visited the school 3 weeks ago, because I had narrowed my choices down to the 2 Houston schools that accepted me, STCL and TSU.  I too had heard many negative things about TSU, like the facilities were horrible, bad rep and the attrition rate was brutal.  As a matter of fact I seriously thought about skipping the visit all together.  Boy would that have been a mistake.

From the moment I entered the building everyone was as friendly and helpful as possible.  My tour was only supposed to last 30 minutes it lasted 3 hrs and was some of the most fun I had on my visit to Houston.  First off the facilities are vastly improved.  The school has just underwent an 11 million dollar renovation, because of a big flood a couple of years back and the student body were in trailers,so they have remedied the facility issue.  All classrooms are wired for laptop use, the entire school has wireless access.  Every room has been renovated, it really looks good, like a new building.  The ABA has put the school on notice about their attrition rate and in response they are becoming more selective. The school has always made an attempt to give students who would not normally have a chance at law school an oppurtunity.  They still believe in this concept, however they are toughing their standards to assure that the attrition rate stays relatively low.  The goal of the school is 10-15% attrition rate.

The staff was polite and knowledgeable many judges current and past teach at the school.  The school has a real family atmosphere.  While walking around the school I had no less than 7 students wish me luck and say they hope to see me next year.  I met 3 3L's that were each headed to very good jobs after graduation, one will be a staff attorney for an oil company and 2 more were headed to large firms within the city.  The alumni is huge do to the fact that they have been around for so many years, and the school is actively persuing increasing the connection with the alumni.

Parking is plentiful and free.  The school is in the hood, but close to downtown and has easy freeway access.  Tuition is cheap and they are still striving to give as much financial aid as possible.  If you have the oppurtunity to visit I encourage you to do so, I assure you you will be surprised and pleased.

Law School is what you make it, if you want a supportive and family like environment I suggest you visit the school. The students seemed very serious about their work.  I would encourage you to not listen to a lot of people on LSD...if you are considering Thurgood Marshall, give them a visit and try and get a tour with Tiffany Simmons, very cool lady, who loves the school and will tell you the real story. 

If you want to know how my South Texas visit went P.M. me. My momma told me if you don't have anything nice to say don't say nothing at all.

Great post Made4Law! Congrats on TSU and good luck to you in the fall if you decide to go there. Hey, I hope you hang around BLSD to help out the TSU cats.   
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: Made4law on April 29, 2005, 02:57:01 PM
THanks, I have decided to go to TSU in the fall though I have not withdrawn my app from STCL, they'll get the hint when I don't send my seat deposit.  The positive things outweighed the negatives by a mile. I'll be hanging on the board for a while, BLSD has some of the country's future leaders it is only smart to try get in where I fit in and learn something from all of this free knowledge floating around.

P.S. Congrats on Southern...I grew up in Louisiana...Welcome to the Dirrrty.
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 29, 2005, 03:00:59 PM
THanks, I have decided to go to TSU in the fall though I have not withdrawn my app from STCL, they'll get the hint when I don't send my seat deposit.  The positive things outweighed the negatives by a mile. I'll be hanging on the board for a while, BLSD has some of the country's future leaders it is only smart to try get in where I fit in and learn something from all of this free knowledge floating around.

P.S. Congrats on Southern...I grew up in Louisiana...Welcome to the Dirrrty.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to SU Law. I'm from Alabama so I know all about the dirty.  ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: blk_reign on April 29, 2005, 03:02:08 PM
Welcome to Houston :)
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: jsonlaw on April 29, 2005, 03:08:02 PM
THanks, I have decided to go to TSU in the fall though I have not withdrawn my app from STCL, they'll get the hint when I don't send my seat deposit.  The positive things outweighed the negatives by a mile. I'll be hanging on the board for a while, BLSD has some of the country's future leaders it is only smart to try get in where I fit in and learn something from all of this free knowledge floating around.

Congrats n good luck!  Im still up in the air about TSU, although I did enjoy my visit.

I advise anyone with questions to visit TSU for yourself..
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: mash1 on April 30, 2005, 06:46:01 PM
Thanks!! I'll try not to die of boredom. I'm sure my law books will keep me busy must of the time though. . . ;)
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: kloud9nupe on May 01, 2005, 08:57:20 PM
I will be attending Howard this fall.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: elegantpearl01 on May 04, 2005, 10:08:31 PM
As a product of a HBCU I had to chime in.  There are plenty of white folks at HBCU's, especially state schools, because the tuition is so cheap for a state school. When FAMU's lawschool was reopened, I knew that school wouldn't be all black because white folks want to take advanatage of that instate tuition and the location.  You go to any HBCU you will see folks of all races there, people from different countries.  I never saw "racism" against white folks, I think the white folks who go to HBCUs generally have a positive experience and learn alot. One of my good friends from highschool went to FAMU and got his Pharmacy Degree from there, he wouldn't change a thing.

As far as white members of NPHC organizations, well I haven't seen that at too many HBCUs in the dirty south. That's another thread though..
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: blk_reign on May 06, 2005, 09:44:54 AM
congrats on howard and welcome to the board

I will be attending Howard this fall.
Title: Re: Catholic or Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on May 07, 2005, 04:27:27 PM
Congrats to all the new law school admits, my old boss (a Supreme Court Justice) went to Howard undergrad and Catholic law...she loves both schools. Make the best wherever you go.
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: elegantpearl01 on May 08, 2005, 11:27:49 AM
Wonderful win, I'm proud of the team being led by Jackson State Alumni...Go Tigers!!!
Title: Re: Howard University's Moot Court Team Wins National Competition
Post by: kloud9nupe on May 12, 2005, 02:58:21 PM
Wonderful win, I'm proud of the team being led by Jackson State Alumni...Go Tigers!!!

This is the way we do it in the SWAC and in NUPELAND and especially Delta Delta.

YO!
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: TruOne on May 14, 2005, 01:53:16 PM
I'm mad that so many of ya'll have actually entertained this assclown' argument.


Edit: I ain't mad that he took the picture down. I'm sure it probably offend folx that it wasn't intended to offend.

**shrugs**  oh well, still doesn't change my original comment. Ya'll should really just Terry Shaivo this whole post and let it die.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on May 14, 2005, 04:03:34 PM
Absolutely, unquestionably weak and pathetic HBCU.EDU.

You should be ashamed.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on May 14, 2005, 04:20:21 PM

what are you talking about?

Absolutely, unquestionably weak and pathetic HBCU.EDU.

You should be ashamed.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on May 14, 2005, 04:23:52 PM
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php?topic=33768.new#new
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: blk_reign on May 14, 2005, 04:28:12 PM
you know what I find to be funny.. you made the ASSumption that HBCU.EDU deleted your post.. I know that he didn't as he's been nowhere near a damn computer for hours now.. there are other moderators on LSD..instead of making blanket ASSumptions you should have responded by asking why your post was deleted if it did in fact exist.. or why whatever picture you're talking about isn't there anymore...
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: A.J on May 14, 2005, 04:36:24 PM
You said that already and I made the assumption based on his prior seemingly random deleting of my post.  That said, I would prefer it if it were simply moved to the hateboard rather than being deleted altogther.  I didnt initiate the attack.
Title: Re: HBCU knowledge for the mis-informed
Post by: TruOne on May 14, 2005, 05:46:06 PM
LOL @ Reign. I feel ya but sometimes people just don't get "it".

But all the BS aside, what do you guys really feel about allowing white cats to join predominantly black organizations? The founder of NBLSA was speaking at the conference about one of the only things he in his life regrets is allowing white law students to join (but he felt pressure from law schools and other financial backers) cause the truth of the matter was, the only time we saw white students there was in Moot Court and Mock Trial competitions. And he felt that white students have enough resources, why did they also have to be involved and use Ours? I understood where he was coming from.

Nothing is sacred anymore...

As extreme as it sounds, I really wish we had something to call our own...



somebody must recognize that this sounds pretty racist.  Reminds me exactly of something a white racist would say. 


**Crickets**
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: kloud9nupe on May 25, 2005, 07:23:33 AM
Texas School's Bar Exam Pass Rate Improves

Jeanne Graham
Texas Lawyer
05-20-2005


McKen V. Carrington, dean of Texas Southern University Thurgood Marshall School of Law in Houston, recently had two reasons to celebrate. On May 6, after serving as interim dean for three years, the TSU Board of Regents named him dean, and he learned that the percentage of the school's graduates passing the February Texas bar exam improved by 18 points compared with the results of the previous year.

Carrington joined the faculty at Thurgood Marshall after graduating from Albany Law School in 1982. He was a tenured professor, teaching courses on wills and estate planning, when the TSU Board of Regents appointed him interim dean in May 2002. TSU provost Bobby Wilson says that, during Carrington's tenure as interim dean, the student performance on the Texas bar exam and the job placement rate of graduates have improved. Prior to Carrington accepting the interim dean post, the American Bar Association raised concerns, during a routine accreditation review, about the bar exam pass rate of the school's graduates. Wilson notes that Carrington resolved those concerns while interim dean.

Carrington says his priority is, and has been, developing stronger graduates. "We're going to continue to emphasize [job] placement and bar rates," Carrington says. Nine months after graduating, more than 80 percent of the school's graduates have employment, he says. He says that the number of applicants to the law school has almost doubled from 1,100 in 2002 to 2,100 for the class starting in August of 2005.

Although not content with a 60 percent pass rate on the February bar exam, Carrington notes the improvement compared with the 41.67 percent and 37.5 percent pass rates on the 2004 and 2003 February exams, respectively. "The students are confident about their ability on the bar," he says. "I expect it [the bar passage rate] to keep going up."

More than 300 graduates of Texas law schools passed the February Texas bar exam, according to the Texas Board of Law Examiners (BLE) in Austin. The pass rate among the 414 first-time test takers -- 78.26 percent -- was almost 8 percentage points higher than the 70.33 percent success rate of February 2004.

Overall, 754 first-time and repeat exam-takers passed the February 2005 bar exam. Those passing totaled 64.01 percent of the 1,178 test-takers. The overall pass rate for the February 2004 exam was 57.04 percent. Of the total first-time takers, 477, or 75.59 percent, of 631 passed, besting the 69.33 percent rate of February 2004. Of the repeat-takers, 277, or 50.64 percent, of 547 passed, also besting the 40.09 percent repeat-takers successful on the exam the previous year.

The success rate for first-time takers from Texas' nine American Bar Association-accredited law schools ranged from 60 percent at Thurgood Marshall to a high of 90.63 percent at Texas Tech University School of Law in Lubbock.

Unlike the results from the July bar exam, when most graduates take the test, the February results are not necessarily trend indicators, says Julia Vaughan, the BLE's executive director. "The number of people taking the exams is so small it is difficult to say if there are meaningful trends when one looks at it school by school, especially when the numbers are so small for given schools," Vaughan says.

First-time test takers from Texas law schools numbered 1,693 on the July 2004 exam, slightly more than four times the 414 who sat for the February 2005 exam.

Nonetheless, Texas Tech law Dean Walter Huffman has bragging rights for the February results. "It's always nice to be No. 1 and recognized once again because of the talent and dedication of our students," Huffman says. "We're not in uncharted territory here; historically, we've had strong bar passage," Huffman says.

Pass rates for first-time takers at other Texas schools, that exceeded the rates attained in February 2004, were 90.38 percent at Baylor University School of Law in Waco (just 0.25 points behind Texas Tech); 84.62 percent at Southern Methodist University Dedman School of Law in Dallas; 73.33 percent at Texas Wesleyan University School of Law in Fort Worth; 72.73 percent at St. Mary's University School of Law in San Antonio; and 70.83 percent at South Texas College of Law in Houston. Graduates of the University of Texas School of Law in Austin and the University of Houston Law Center attained pass rates slightly below the February 2004 levels -- with 87.8 percent of first-time takers passing at UT Austin compared with 89.13 percent in 2004 and 81.67 passing at the UH Law Center compared with 81.82 percent the previous February.

A list of the individuals who passed the February exam can be found at BLE's Web site.
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: Lawprofessor on May 25, 2005, 05:19:49 PM

I visted the school recently met with the dean and students faculty and got good and bad.

Bad...As you know TSU has a low bar passage rate for first time exam takers...with about 78% eventually passing the Bar after the THIRD TRY!  

A word on the bar passage rate.  One reason that the bar passage rate is low is because TSU like Southern accepts quite a few students that otherwise wouldnt be able to attend law school.  Because those are some of the people who are graduating and taking the bar exam, the bar passage rate is going to be somewhat lower than other schools.  But the benefit is that they serve a purpose, which is giving as many people of color an opportunity to go to law school as possible, which is a noble calling for an institution of higher learning.
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: blk_reign on May 25, 2005, 07:21:57 PM
now..only if they'd hire me :'(
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: LaneSwerver on May 25, 2005, 07:42:12 PM
now..only if they'd hire me :'(

Best of luck. All of us employed by Texas universities received an e-mail yesterday informing us of a hiring freeze on positions that are not fully grant-funded. Hopefully it will lift soon.
Title: Re: Texas Southern
Post by: Lawprofessor on May 26, 2005, 02:10:13 AM
now..only if they'd hire me :'(

uhhhh, have you talked to them yet???  Did you even call the Dean? :-\
Title: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 08, 2005, 11:20:55 AM
I've been talking to Blk about this for a while, and I would like to get the opinions of a few others, especially current law students.

Which would you choose:
GW=$150,000 in debt or Howard=no debt?

All opinions are appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: lex19 on June 08, 2005, 12:15:37 PM
GW, hands down, but i'm all about the label/name whore.......unless you want to stay in the DC area, but who knows what will happen in 3 years right?
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 08, 2005, 12:31:53 PM
well what do you want to do in life?  why no debt--big scholarship or you have some money saved away?  need more info.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: blk_reign on June 08, 2005, 12:54:46 PM
they still didn't give you any finaid :'(?
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 08, 2005, 01:00:18 PM
they still didn't give you any finaid :'(?


Nope  :-\ Plus, they had the nerve to lose all of my tax papers.  I guess as the second deposit deadline nears (June 15th), I'm starting to have my doubts.

I really want to go to GW, but not for $150,000  :-[
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: blk_reign on June 08, 2005, 01:09:49 PM
well you know how i feel.. the $150k debt is no joke.. if HU is offering you a lot of $$$ i really think that you should strongly consider it.. even though you went there for undergrad

have you tried talking to the office of multicultural affairs  at GW to see if they can help you in any way?
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 08, 2005, 01:32:44 PM
well you know how i feel.. the $150k debt is no joke.. if HU is offering you a lot of $$$ i really think that you should strongly consider it.. even though you went there for undergrad

have you tried talking to the office of multicultural affairs  at GW to see if they can help you in any way?

No, actually I haven't.  I try to give them a call.  Thanks.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Muse on June 08, 2005, 01:59:51 PM
Pick howard. 150K in debt is no joke. Believe it or not most law students are not going to come out of law school making six figures so....yeah give howard a shot.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 08, 2005, 03:12:50 PM
I am assuming that Howard is giving you a scholarship.  I would say all things being equal, go to Howard.  GW is an excellent school and does open up some opportunities, but for the most part, anything you will want to do graduating from GW  you can do graduating from Howard.  The one possible exception I can think of is teaching.  But most people dont go into law school thinking about teaching.  So, with that said, I agree with Muse.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: jdohno on June 08, 2005, 04:33:21 PM
Go to Howard, do well and transfer out to a school ranked higher than GW. Howard is 3rd tier and even though GW is a top 25 school, it doesn't give you the same opportunities as a top 15 school. If this thread was Howard vs Georgetown then I would tell you to go to Georgetown. The debt is important but law is competitive and it helps to go to a top 15 school.

If you don't do well your first year then you still have your scholarship at Howard. If you aced your first year then you could probably transfer to Georgetown, UVA and maybe even Columbia. The high rank and access to opportunities from those schools outweigh the debt. I always remind people that you have 30 years to pay off your student loans. I know three people who went to Columbia and Georgetown, did well and got great paying jobs. They paid off their student loans in less than 5 years. Education is good debt because you are trying to get a better position. What's the point of going to a school that has a low debt if you end up with a job that starts in the 30s and 40s? Unless you want to do public interest or govt work. If you want to do govt or public interest then go to Howard. If you want to work in the corporate world then you should transfer up.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 08, 2005, 04:38:33 PM
Go to Howard, do well and transfer out to a school ranked higher than GW. Howard is 3rd tier and even though GW is a top 25 school, it doesn't give you the same opportunities as a top 15 school. If this thread was Howard vs Georgetown then I would tell you to go to Georgetown. The debt is important but law is competitive and it helps to go to a top 15 school.

If you don't do well your first year then you still have your scholarship at Howard. If you aced your first year then you could probably transfer to Georgetown, UVA and maybe even Columbia. The high rank and access to opportunities from those schools outweigh the debt. I always remind people that you have 30 years to pay off your student loans. I know three people who went to Columbia and Georgetown, did well and got great paying jobs. They paid off their student loans in less than 5 years. Education is good debt because you are trying to get a better position. What's the point of going to a school that has a low debt if you end up with a job that starts in the 30s and 40s? Unless you want to do public interest or govt work. If you want to do govt or public interest then go to Howard. If you want to work in the corporate world then you should transfer up.

Uhh, GW is a top 20 school.  And I dont know about your logic about cutting things off at the top 15 and that somehow making a difference.  Going to a top 20 school like GW will make a difference, clearly not the same difference as a top 15 school, but it will make a difference in the opportunities you can get.  I understand and agree that top 15 schools give you great opportunities, but you are acting like after the top 15 all other schools are the same.  That is just not true.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: blk_reign on June 08, 2005, 04:55:40 PM
I know people that graduated from Georgetown law that are unemployed so what's your point exactly? Have you entered law school or obtained your JD yet?

GWU will offer a lot of the same opportunities that going to a T14 will offer

Howard will offer opportunities to minorities that other law schools will not.. I've pointed out some of those examples in other threads...

if a person wants to pursue a dual degree with an emphasis on policy for example- Georgetown wouldn't be the place for them to go.. GWU would...


Make the decision that is best for you and do well.. you will have a job when you're done if you utilize the programs that are offered to you and plan an excellent package in terms of course work that will make you stand out more than others..

Both universities are in DC.. both have excellent reputations and trust that minorities are going to be recruited from Howard at some firms before they even visit  AU, GWU, Georgetown or CAU


Go to Howard, do well and transfer out to a school ranked higher than GW. Howard is 3rd tier and even though GW is a top 25 school, it doesn't give you the same opportunities as a top 15 school. If this thread was Howard vs Georgetown then I would tell you to go to Georgetown. The debt is important but law is competitive and it helps to go to a top 15 school.

If you don't do well your first year then you still have your scholarship at Howard. If you aced your first year then you could probably transfer to Georgetown, UVA and maybe even Columbia. The high rank and access to opportunities from those schools outweigh the debt. I always remind people that you have 30 years to pay off your student loans. I know three people who went to Columbia and Georgetown, did well and got great paying jobs. They paid off their student loans in less than 5 years. Education is good debt because you are trying to get a better position. What's the point of going to a school that has a low debt if you end up with a job that starts in the 30s and 40s? Unless you want to do public interest or govt work. If you want to do govt or public interest then go to Howard. If you want to work in the corporate world then you should transfer up.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 08, 2005, 05:06:02 PM
co-sign.

Hey, you are my first co-sign.  That felt pretty good. ;D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: jdohno on June 08, 2005, 05:42:31 PM
No I didn't mean to imply that after the top 15 that the opportuntities decrease. Most people cut things off at the top 15 so it's not my own cutoff. I thought GW was higher than the top 25 but I didn't know its exact rank so I stated top 25 instead of top 20. You're right going to a top 20 school like GW will make a difference but not the same differences as a top 15 school. And there are some top 25 schools like Washingtion U and Fordham that place well. So calling GW a top 25 school is hardly an insult. But many people have to do a cost analysis when they are looking at schools outside the top 15. For example, if you have a full ride from your state's school vs no financial aid from somewhere like Washingon & Lee and don't know where you want to work but you might want to practice in your state. Top 15 schools like Boalt, Columbia, UVA and Duke place across the country. It depends on the goals the OP has in regards to law school. Either way going to school in DC will give her a lot of opportunities.

Uhh, GW is a top 20 school.  And I dont know about your logic about cutting things off at the top 15 and that somehow making a difference.  Going to a top 20 school like GW will make a difference, clearly not the same difference as a top 15 school, but it will make a difference in the opportunities you can get.  I understand and agree that top 15 schools give you great opportunities, but you are acting like after the top 15 all other schools are the same.  That is just not true.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: jdohno on June 08, 2005, 05:48:05 PM
Yes I just finished my first year and aced it. I'm in the process of transferring right now. Of course, people who don't do well at Georgetown or graduate towards the bottom of the class have limited opportunities. As I stated above, I wasn't slamming GW. But if the OP can't afford GW then going to Howard and transferring to a school ranked higher than GW might help her with the concerns about the debt. It is important for the OP to decide what is best for her and do well at either school to have a chance at great opportunities.

I know people that graduated from Georgetown law that are unemployed so what's your point exactly? Have you entered law school or obtained your JD yet?

GWU will offer a lot of the same opportunities that going to a T14 will offer

Howard will offer opportunities to minorities that other law schools will not.. I've pointed out some of those examples in other threads...

if a person wants to pursue a dual degree with an emphasis on policy for example- Georgetown wouldn't be the place for them to go.. GWU would...


Make the decision that is best for you and do well.. you will have a job when you're done if you utilize the programs that are offered to you and plan an excellent package in terms of course work that will make you stand out more than others..

Both universities are in DC.. both have excellent reputations and trust that minorities are going to be recruited from Howard at some firms before they even visit  AU, GWU, Georgetown or CAU


Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Fabyahluss on June 08, 2005, 08:00:54 PM
Go to Howard. And don't go there with the intent to transfer. Go there because you'll have a lot of freedom to go into the type of law you desire upon graduation because you'll be debt free. Also go there because Howard is a phenomenal institution and will offer you many possibilities after you graduate. Don't believe the hype that many on this board will lead you to believe regarding the lie that if you don't graduate from a top __ school then you're doomed. It's bull.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 08, 2005, 08:08:23 PM
Quote
Don't believe the hype that many on this board will lead you to believe regarding the lie that if you don't graduate from a top __ school then you're doomed. It's bull.

This is an a little extreme.  Many on this board will say go to where you want to go and what works best for you.  Not go to the highest ranked school.  Look at the posts here on this thread and you will see that FAR more people say make the decision that is in your best interest and/or go to Howard. 
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Fabyahluss on June 08, 2005, 08:20:07 PM
Ah, you misunderstood my post, but then perhaps I was unclear. When I said "this board" I was referring to LSD in general, and not specifically to BLSD. So my post was not extreme at all when you consider the viewpoints of LSDers outside of the BLSD. If you ever happen to venture out of BLSD, you'll notice that a significant portion of LSDers will suggest that an individual go to the highest ranked school they get into, particularly when the tier gap is as wide as a T1 and a T3.

But you're right about BLSD. The people on here are extremely supportive and often on point with their suggestions regarding law schools, but are far from being representative of LSDers as a whole (unfortunately).  :-\

Quote
Don't believe the hype that many on this board will lead you to believe regarding the lie that if you don't graduate from a top __ school then you're doomed. It's bull.

This is an a little extreme.  Many on this board will say go to where you want to go and what works best for you.  Not go to the highest ranked school.  Look at the posts here on this thread and you will see that FAR more people say make the decision that is in your best interest and/or go to Howard. 
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: blk_reign on June 08, 2005, 09:19:18 PM
sage words..if there's no way to make the money problem happen (without 150k debt at GWU) definitely go to Howard...don't miss out on your blessing :)


Go to Howard. And don't go there with the intent to transfer. Go there because you'll have a lot of freedom to go into the type of law you desire upon graduation because you'll be debt free. Also go there because Howard is a phenomenal institution and will offer you many possibilities after you graduate. Don't believe the hype that many on this board will lead you to believe regarding the lie that if you don't graduate from a top __ school then you're doomed. It's bull.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: blk_reign on June 08, 2005, 09:24:56 PM
congrats on acing your 1L yr... :)

keep in mind that in my example I didn't say anything about the people that I knew not doing well or graduating at the bottom of their class at Georgetown....

In fact, two of them graduated at the top 10% and have both passed the MD bar- but CAN'T find employment in Big Law..



Yes I just finished my first year and aced it. I'm in the process of transferring right now. Of course, people who don't do well at Georgetown or graduate towards the bottom of the class have limited opportunities. As I stated above, I wasn't slamming GW.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: jdohno on June 08, 2005, 10:14:36 PM
Thanks. Wow!!! Sorry I just made a beginner's mistake in assuming.  :(
Did you decide to go to GW over Howard? Do you regret not going to Howard? Or did you have a chance to take some courses at Howard? Also have you heard or read about a letter that is making the rounds on the internet--apparently a 3L at Georgetown is going off on a diatribe against the school.

congrats on acing your 1L yr... :)

keep in mind that in my example I didn't say anything about the people that I knew not doing well or graduating at the bottom of their class at Georgetown....

In fact, two of them graduated at the top 10% and have both passed the MD bar- but CAN'T find employment in Big Law..



Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 08, 2005, 10:17:20 PM
Howard and no debt is what I would take. 150K in debt, that's a HUGE loan payment. 
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: jdohno on June 08, 2005, 10:22:19 PM
So I'm guess that GW doesn't have a scholarship/grant matching program.  :-\ I guess with June 15th around the corner it looks like your decision might be set. It is nice to go to school knowing that you don't have any immediate money concerns. Especially with the proposed changes the Republicans are thinking about making to the federal loan program. Have a great year at Howard.


Nope  :-\ Plus, they had the nerve to lose all of my tax papers.  I guess as the second deposit deadline nears (June 15th), I'm starting to have my doubts.

I really want to go to GW, but not for $150,000  :-[
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: blk_reign on June 08, 2005, 10:24:39 PM
I chose GWU over Howard for a couple of reasons.. I had a full scholarship offer to the Master's side of the dual degree program that I entered... Howard does not have an International Affairs Master's program

I do not regret not going to Howard because I enjoyed my law school experience at GW. I took some classes @ Howard through the consortium that were not offered @ GWU.

I haven't heard about the letter but quite frankly I'm not surprised..

Thanks. Wow!!! Sorry I just made a beginner's mistake in assuming.  :(
Did you decide to go to GW over Howard? Do you regret not going to Howard? Or did you have a chance to take some courses at Howard? Also have you heard or read about a letter that is making the rounds on the internet--apparently a 3L at Georgetown is going off on a diatribe against the school.


Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 09, 2005, 06:54:17 AM
So I'm guess that GW doesn't have a scholarship/grant matching program.  :-\ I guess with June 15th around the corner it looks like your decision might be set. It is nice to go to school knowing that you don't have any immediate money concerns. Especially with the proposed changes the Republicans are thinking about making to the federal loan program. Have a great year at Howard.


Nope  :-\ Plus, they had the nerve to lose all of my tax papers.  I guess as the second deposit deadline nears (June 15th), I'm starting to have my doubts.

I really want to go to GW, but not for $150,000  :-[

Thank you all for your input! It's so funny how 90% of the people (lawyers, students, everyone else) have said the same thing: Go to Howard!

I'm almost sure of my decision now...
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 09, 2005, 08:38:32 AM
So I'm guess that GW doesn't have a scholarship/grant matching program.  :-\ I guess with June 15th around the corner it looks like your decision might be set. It is nice to go to school knowing that you don't have any immediate money concerns. Especially with the proposed changes the Republicans are thinking about making to the federal loan program. Have a great year at Howard.


Nope  :-\ Plus, they had the nerve to lose all of my tax papers.  I guess as the second deposit deadline nears (June 15th), I'm starting to have my doubts.

I really want to go to GW, but not for $150,000  :-[

Thank you all for your input! It's so funny how 90% of the people (lawyers, students, everyone else) have said the same thing: Go to Howard!

I'm almost sure of my decision now...


One of my closest friends went to Howard Law and loved it, she's  a Public Defender (which is what she always wanted to do) and believes her time at Howard helped prepare her well. She was active in co-curriculars and enjoys the fact she doesnt have massive law school loans....

Have you visited both schools?? That may help in your decision making process.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 09, 2005, 09:37:07 AM
So I'm guess that GW doesn't have a scholarship/grant matching program.  :-\ I guess with June 15th around the corner it looks like your decision might be set. It is nice to go to school knowing that you don't have any immediate money concerns. Especially with the proposed changes the Republicans are thinking about making to the federal loan program. Have a great year at Howard.


Nope  :-\ Plus, they had the nerve to lose all of my tax papers.  I guess as the second deposit deadline nears (June 15th), I'm starting to have my doubts.

I really want to go to GW, but not for $150,000  :-[

Thank you all for your input! It's so funny how 90% of the people (lawyers, students, everyone else) have said the same thing: Go to Howard!

I'm almost sure of my decision now...


One of my closest friends went to Howard Law and loved it, she's  a Public Defender (which is what she always wanted to do) and believes her time at Howard helped prepare her well. She was active in co-curriculars and enjoys the fact she doesnt have massive law school loans....

Have you visited both schools?? That may help in your decision making process.

I attended the Admitted Students Weekend for GW and was thoroughly impressed with the facilities.  I attended Howard for undergrad, and although I've never visited the law campus, I know what to expect, nothing as nice as GW but sufficient. I also heard that the new law library is really nice.

Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Muse on June 09, 2005, 11:57:35 AM
Forget GW, Georgetown and Howard, go to Columbia. It's the best school.   ;D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 09, 2005, 12:32:58 PM
You are right,  I have heard they have the hottest chicks there. ;)
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Muse on June 09, 2005, 12:46:11 PM
Hehe...
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 09, 2005, 06:11:29 PM
I'd venture Howard has the better Homecoming Celebration....
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Gypsy Green on June 10, 2005, 07:22:51 AM
Bluenine,

I'm still faced with a similar situation - Howard w/ $ vs Georgetown without.  Now things are getting a little more complicated since my employer is considering sponsoring me in law school, if I commit to working in house.  The details have not been communicated to me.  At this point it's only a possibility.  Needless to say though, it was enough to get me to pay Georgetown's hefty $500 2nd seat.  Frankly, I'm not sure I want the committment of working in house for my current employer following graduation.  One of the reasons I applied to law school was to change gears.  I know working in IP or Patent would be different than being an engineer, but the "feel" would be the same.

Does anyone know of any pros/cons to going directly in house following graduation?

Decisions, decisions - Good luck Bluenine with yours.  It's one of those situations where the good news is that you can't go wrong either way... but therein lies the dilemma.

Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 10, 2005, 07:35:40 AM
Bluenine,

I'm still faced with a similar situation - Howard w/ $ vs Georgetown without.  Now things are getting a little more complicated since my employer is considering sponsoring me in law school, if I commit to working in house.  The details have not been communicated to me.  At this point it's only a possibility.  Needless to say though, it was enough to get me to pay Georgetown's hefty $500 2nd seat.  Frankly, I'm not sure I want the committment of working in house for my current employer following graduation.  One of the reasons I applied to law school was to change gears.  I know working in IP or Patent would be different than being an engineer, but the "feel" would be the same.

Does anyone know of any pros/cons to going directly in house following graduation?

Decisions, decisions - Good luck Bluenine with yours.  It's one of those situations where the good news is that you can't go wrong either way... but therein lies the dilemma.



You can say that again.  However, if given the opportunity to attend Georgetown, I might actually take it.  GW is a great school, but Georgetown is a better school.

As far as you trying to switch gears in your career, committing to work in-house for your current employer may be a bad idea.  I don't know what stage you are in in your professional life, but mine has literally just begun.  I couldn't imagine not having options.

I'm definitely going to attend Howard.  I just think it is the best choice for me financially, academically, and socially.  Did you get an opportunity to visit both schools? 
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: lex19 on June 10, 2005, 10:30:41 AM
blue have you followed up with g-town with a letter of interest or anything?? congrats on your choice with howard only you know what's really good for you  ;)
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lenny on June 10, 2005, 12:26:29 PM
Gypsy,

Very few law students go straight into in-house right after law school, but this is because most companies will only hire laterally from firms, especially if the firm is the major outside counsel for the company.  The pros of in-house is quality of life.  You're not billing hours, you're working 9-5, and you're making decent money.  Of course, private firms pay more, but the first couple years at a firm are rough.  I would say that if your company is going to pay for your Georgetown, the decrease in salary would be more than worth it.  This all depends on how much time you have to commit to the company.  You will be able to have your pick of firms coming from in-house with a GULC JD, so if the committment is only 2 or 3 years, this seems like a no-brainer to me.  Plus, you wouldn't have to mess with job search during law school, which will honestly give you about 10 free hours/week spring of first year and up to 20 free hours fall of 2L. 
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 10, 2005, 12:28:49 PM
blue have you followed up with g-town with a letter of interest or anything?? congrats on your choice with howard only you know what's really good for you  ;)

Two letters of continued interest to be exact.  They sent an e-mail today stating that they received a strong showing for the second deposit so they'll let us know in July.  Needless to say, I'm not holding my breath on this one.  I'm happy with the choice that I have made.  Good luck with your decision!
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: lex19 on June 10, 2005, 01:24:27 PM
i hear ya on the waiting till july....as for myself i'm just gonna plan like i'll be going to school in august, and if it doesn't work out, my momma loves me and will take me in!  ;D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 10, 2005, 01:32:55 PM
i hear ya on the waiting till july....as for myself i'm just gonna plan like i'll be going to school in august, and if it doesn't work out, my momma loves me and will take me in!  ;D

lol that's what they are there for. :D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 10, 2005, 01:48:48 PM
a little bit. ;D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: jdohno on June 10, 2005, 01:54:53 PM
Do you have a Howard JD, LP?

a little bit. ;D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: lex19 on June 10, 2005, 01:57:43 PM
lol that's what they are there for. :D

ain't that the trufesses! lu ya moms
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 10, 2005, 02:04:22 PM
I've been talking to Blk about this for a while, and I would like to get the opinions of a few others, especially current law students.

Which would you choose:
GW=$150,000 in debt or Howard=no debt?

All opinions are appreciated.

Thanks

What are your plans after you graduate?  Of course those could change but if you're planning on going into a high paying field (meaning the $150k will be more managable) than you should definitely go with GW.  How much of an impact that debt will have on you is important to consider (seeing as we all are going to be in the same boat).  

Howard will provide certain minority opportunities GW won't, but thinking that way seems to be boxing yourself in a little.  As a general rule, unless you are completely dedicated to one specific area, I think it's better to go to the school that will provide the most opportunities in the most locations.  If you've already gone to Howard, then you still have that undergrad network connection, and you won't have problems opening doors with a GW degree.  In general terms, the DC pecking order is going to put GW second, and Howard 5th.  If you're staying in DC (or going national) GW's going to carry a lot more weight.

And numbers/prestige whores drive me nuts, so I hope this doesn't make me sound too much like that!  

I understand what you are saying, but then again you want to go to GW ;D.  

In any event, my observation has been this:
For 0L's-The level of accuracy regarding the information they dispense is minimal at best.  Certainly, for the majority of students that attend law school in the Washington, DC area, the hierarchy you present is pretty much accurate. However, having spoken with a number of Howard law students and alumni, I think that if I work hard, the number of opportunities I'll have coming out of Howard will be no less than say a GW student.

At this point, I'm not remotely interested in working for a firm, so this whole idea of "You'll make enough to pay it back" doesn't really apply to me.

I've come across at least 10 firm/internship opportunities that cater specifically to Howard students.  What I'm trying to say is that the opportunities are out there, you just have to seek them out.  If attending Howard and taking advantage of such opportunities puts me in a "box", then so be it, because in the end I'll be making the same money as the Georgetown graduate.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 10, 2005, 02:07:42 PM
Do you have a Howard JD, LP?

a little bit. ;D

No, UF.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: blk_reign on June 10, 2005, 03:19:07 PM
that's all I am saying Blue..you are speaking truth here... as a GW law ALUM ;)... I truly believe that you will do just fine at Howard... and the opportunities will definitely be presented to you..


EnFuego22 the opportunities that I was referring to in earlier posts are the opps that blue talked about.. there are jobs at Biglaw firms that are tailored for Howard University Law School students and alums...as I said earlier when it comes down to  it there are some firms that will recruit minorities from Howard Law before they even interview minority students at other DC law schools.. I do know this as fact..

Since blue isn't interested in working in big law (I don't blame her as I've chosen against that as well) your argument isn't really going to work for her...


I've been talking to Blk about this for a while, and I would like to get the opinions of a few others, especially current law students.

Which would you choose:
GW=$150,000 in debt or Howard=no debt?

All opinions are appreciated.

Thanks

What are your plans after you graduate?  Of course those could change but if you're planning on going into a high paying field (meaning the $150k will be more managable) than you should definitely go with GW.  How much of an impact that debt will have on you is important to consider (seeing as we all are going to be in the same boat).  

Howard will provide certain minority opportunities GW won't, but thinking that way seems to be boxing yourself in a little.  As a general rule, unless you are completely dedicated to one specific area, I think it's better to go to the school that will provide the most opportunities in the most locations.  If you've already gone to Howard, then you still have that undergrad network connection, and you won't have problems opening doors with a GW degree.  In general terms, the DC pecking order is going to put GW second, and Howard 5th.  If you're staying in DC (or going national) GW's going to carry a lot more weight.

And numbers/prestige whores drive me nuts, so I hope this doesn't make me sound too much like that!  

I understand what you are saying, but then again you want to go to GW ;D.  

In any event, my observation has been this:
For 0L's-The level of accuracy regarding the information they dispense is minimal at best.  Certainly, for the majority of students that attend law school in the Washington, DC area, the hierarchy you present is pretty much accurate. However, having spoken with a number of Howard law students and alumni, I think that if I work hard, the number of opportunities I'll have coming out of Howard will be no less than say a GW student.

At this point, I'm not remotely interested in working for a firm, so this whole idea of "You'll make enough to pay it back" doesn't really apply to me.

I've come across at least 10 firm/internship opportunities that cater specifically to Howard students.  What I'm trying to say is that the opportunities are out there, you just have to seek them out.  If attending Howard and taking advantage of such opportunities puts me in a "box", then so be it, because in the end I'll be making the same money as the Georgetown graduate.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 10, 2005, 04:41:13 PM
that's all I am saying Blue..you are speaking truth here... as a GW law ALUM ;)... I truly believe that you will do just fine at Howard... and the opportunities will definitely be presented to you..


EnFuego22 the opportunities that I was referring to in earlier posts are the opps that blue talked about.. there are jobs at Biglaw firms that are tailored for Howard University Law School students and alums...as I said earlier when it comes down to  it there are some firms that will recruit minorities from Howard Law before they even interview minority students at other DC law schools.. I do know this as fact..

Since blue isn't interested in working in big law (I don't blame her as I've chosen against that as well) your argument isn't really going to work for her...


I've been talking to Blk about this for a while, and I would like to get the opinions of a few others, especially current law students.

Which would you choose:
GW=$150,000 in debt or Howard=no debt?

All opinions are appreciated.

Thanks

What are your plans after you graduate?  Of course those could change but if you're planning on going into a high paying field (meaning the $150k will be more managable) than you should definitely go with GW.  How much of an impact that debt will have on you is important to consider (seeing as we all are going to be in the same boat).  

Howard will provide certain minority opportunities GW won't, but thinking that way seems to be boxing yourself in a little.  As a general rule, unless you are completely dedicated to one specific area, I think it's better to go to the school that will provide the most opportunities in the most locations.  If you've already gone to Howard, then you still have that undergrad network connection, and you won't have problems opening doors with a GW degree.  In general terms, the DC pecking order is going to put GW second, and Howard 5th.  If you're staying in DC (or going national) GW's going to carry a lot more weight.

And numbers/prestige whores drive me nuts, so I hope this doesn't make me sound too much like that!  

I understand what you are saying, but then again you want to go to GW ;D.  

In any event, my observation has been this:
For 0L's-The level of accuracy regarding the information they dispense is minimal at best.  Certainly, for the majority of students that attend law school in the Washington, DC area, the hierarchy you present is pretty much accurate. However, having spoken with a number of Howard law students and alumni, I think that if I work hard, the number of opportunities I'll have coming out of Howard will be no less than say a GW student.

At this point, I'm not remotely interested in working for a firm, so this whole idea of "You'll make enough to pay it back" doesn't really apply to me.

I've come across at least 10 firm/internship opportunities that cater specifically to Howard students.  What I'm trying to say is that the opportunities are out there, you just have to seek them out.  If attending Howard and taking advantage of such opportunities puts me in a "box", then so be it, because in the end I'll be making the same money as the Georgetown graduate.


Reign, just co-signing....I wouldn't bank my future on going into "big law". You might not like and you're stuck with those bills. You will do fine at HU, if you know you don't want to go to a white shoe firm and you have interest that Howard can serve go there. I will always have the greatest respect for Howard, due to the institution's long role spearheading the legal action during the civil rights movement. I think when some firms want black attorneys they go to HBCU law schools....that happens alot in undergrad at HBCUs. 

I think you have to go to the best institution that your money will allow you to go to. I would have hated to graduate with 200K in loans because that would mean that I'm tied to a certain job forever.

Besides after FICA bites your check, that 150K ain't so nice if you don't have a heap of dependents and deductions.

Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 10, 2005, 07:55:40 PM
EnFuego, its true that you will be afforded certain opportunities by going to a top tier school, heck, that's one of the reasons I went to my alma mater. But there's great freedom in not being saddled with a heap of debt too. If the folks at your firm make you mad one day, you can leave and take that public sector job without batting an eye.

Let's not forget, the market for attorneys is oversaturated...it's getting better, but the hiring wars are over. There are folks who went to top schools and earned decent grades who don't have jobs. A big part of the whole game requires you to network. You can do that wherever you are at, it's easier at some schools than others. But wherever you go, you can join co-curriculars, become a teaching assistant, get involved in clinical programs, etc. As a minority you have to do those things wherever you go, because the profession is different for people of color, especially black attorneys.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on June 10, 2005, 08:23:27 PM
A friend of mine took a full ride to Howard over no $ at GW a few years ago.  She seems not to regret it.  However, I remember her saying that she thought she had to work harder than the GW students to have the same opportunities professionally.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on June 10, 2005, 08:28:53 PM
EnFuego, its true that you will be afforded certain opportunities by going to a top tier school, heck, that's one of the reasons I went to my alma mater. But there's great freedom in not being saddled with a heap of debt too. If the folks at your firm make you mad one day, you can leave and take that public sector job without batting an eye.

Let's not forget, the market for attorneys is oversaturated...it's getting better, but the hiring wars are over. There are folks who went to top schools and earned decent grades who don't have jobs. A big part of the whole game requires you to network. You can do that wherever you are at, it's easier at some schools than others. But wherever you go, you can join co-curriculars, become a teaching assistant, get involved in clinical programs, etc. As a minority you have to do those things wherever you go, because the profession is different for people of color, especially black attorneys.


I agree, the legal profession is one that is different for all of us (outside of T14, of course).  I wasn't suggesting there wouldn't be great opportunities presented via Howard, just speaking in general terms.  If at some point the OP wants to step out of the DC area or the Howard alumni network, it might be easier to do so with a GW JD.  (Again, I'm not saying it's impossible to do this with a Howard JD).  I've been a big defender of T3 schools on this board.  
i agree with this.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 11, 2005, 07:11:10 AM
Cream always rises to the top - no matter where you go.

Go to HUSL Blue and do your thing.  I'll see you there. ;D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 11, 2005, 01:21:47 PM
Cream always rises to the top - no matter where you go.

Go to HUSL Blue and do your thing.  I'll see you there. ;D

Good statement
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 13, 2005, 01:06:28 PM
Cream always rises to the top - no matter where you go.

Go to HUSL Blue and do your thing.  I'll see you there. ;D

 :D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 13, 2005, 05:23:10 PM
HOWARD ALL DAY!!!

Are you kiddin me?  No debt, WHAT?  'Nuff said.  First of all, don't let the rankings fool you.  That USNews cr*p is just that.  Howard is a good law school.  Out here in the City just about all the big name law firms have Howard on their recruiting list.  When it comes time to find black attorneys, they go to two places: Howard and the BLSA career fair.  You effectively will have the same opportunity as somebody coming out of Harvard when it comes to Big Law recruitment.  Have any doubts? Check out nalpdirectory.com and see for yourself.

Let me echo Elegant Pearl b/c the point she's making needs to be reiterated.  Most of us go into Big Law because we have no choice.  Its either do that or work somewhere cheap for the next 40 years paying off our 6 figure debt.  if you can come out with 0 debt...shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii t you got it made.  You can do what you wanna do, as opposed to doing what you have to do.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Gary Glitter on June 14, 2005, 01:30:48 AM
i don't know but i'd have to side with GW on this one

i like to look at the hard numbers ...

take for example, GW vs. Cornell, first year numbers for first year associates fresh out of law school: (going from memory here but more or less accurate)

average median first year salary: 125,000 / yr - same for both
bar passage rate: Cornell 96.2% GW 95.7%
first year employment: Cornell 95.2% GW 94.7%
etc., with the trend continuing throughout

the point here? the point is that at GW you're going to get a top-rate education that is going to place you amongst an elite group of law school grads....

GW vs. Howard, side by side numbers comparison? we're talking oranges and apples
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 14, 2005, 04:53:13 AM
Don't get caught up in those "median" salaries. Howard isn't a top tier school and I'm all for top tier schools, but I think Howard is special because of its history. Anyone wanting to go to a Historically Black College or University (HBCU) I fully support. Howard has a special place in the legal history of this country and I think a minority can do VERY WELL going there. 

When I went off to college, I had several full scholarships to predominately white institutions and HBCUs. I chose to continue my family tradition and I selected a HBCU, specifically FAMU.  I had friends who told me my opportunities would be limited, but truthfully, I've had more opportunities than I would have going to a non-HBCU. 

Bottom line is, at the end of the day you gotta go where you fit best.  Personally, I'm all for no law school debt. I have a couple of small loans (bar study loan and small loans from grad school) that I whine about paying every month. I can't fathom six-figure loan debt.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 14, 2005, 11:12:07 AM
Don't get caught up in those "median" salaries. Howard isn't a top tier school and I'm all for top tier schools, but I think Howard is special because of its history. Anyone wanting to go to a Historically Black College or University (HBCU) I fully support. Howard has a special place in the legal history of this country and I think a minority can do VERY WELL going there. 

When I went off to college, I had several full scholarships to predominately white institutions and HBCUs. I chose to continue my family tradition and I selected a HBCU, specifically FAMU.  I had friends who told me my opportunities would be limited, but truthfully, I've had more opportunities than I would have going to a non-HBCU. 

Bottom line is, at the end of the day you gotta go where you fit best.  Personally, I'm all for no law school debt. I have a couple of small loans (bar study loan and small loans from grad school) that I whine about paying every month. I can't fathom six-figure loan debt.

Not to be all up in your business, but how did you pay for your living expenses?  DC is sooooo expensive, but I am definitely keeping my apartment.  I could move back home, but a hellified commute coupled with dealing with my siblings on a daily basis is a recipe for flunking out by Halloween!!!!!
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 14, 2005, 11:34:57 AM
Don't get caught up in those "median" salaries. Howard isn't a top tier school and I'm all for top tier schools, but I think Howard is special because of its history. Anyone wanting to go to a Historically Black College or University (HBCU) I fully support. Howard has a special place in the legal history of this country and I think a minority can do VERY WELL going there. 

When I went off to college, I had several full scholarships to predominately white institutions and HBCUs. I chose to continue my family tradition and I selected a HBCU, specifically FAMU.  I had friends who told me my opportunities would be limited, but truthfully, I've had more opportunities than I would have going to a non-HBCU. 

Bottom line is, at the end of the day you gotta go where you fit best.  Personally, I'm all for no law school debt. I have a couple of small loans (bar study loan and small loans from grad school) that I whine about paying every month. I can't fathom six-figure loan debt.

Not to be all up in your business, but how did you pay for your living expenses?  DC is sooooo expensive, but I am definitely keeping my apartment.  I could move back home, but a hellified commute coupled with dealing with my siblings on a daily basis is a recipe for flunking out by Halloween!!!!!

Can you take out a loan for expenses?  What about living in Maryland to help with cost of living? 
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: ckendall8kp on June 14, 2005, 11:51:10 AM
I wished this convo existed 2 months ago. But still I am glad with my decision. GW rejected me (to my surprise), and I got into both Georgetown and Howard. Howard gave me a $15,000 and later increased it to a full ride after I told them I would be going to Georgetown. It was a tough decision and in the end my decision was based on a lot more than money. The money from HUSL was tempting, but I visited both schools and talked to students and alum for both schools and I decided that I was willing to go into debt to attend Georgetown. I compared things like: faculty, resources, classes, student satisfaction, environment, and opportunities. I also considered the advice of family (my dad is a HUSL grad and my bro currently goes there) and sorors (a lot of my chapter sorors went to HUSL). There were certain things about Howard that didn't sit well with me, IE how men and women interacted with each other on both a educational and social level, the lack of efficiency of its administration, and the quality of teaching. HUSL is a small school and though its only T3, I know a number of people who have graduated from there (all in the top of their class) that are doing well. But in the end, again, it just wasn't for me.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 14, 2005, 11:53:04 AM
I am going to use my loan $$ for expenses.  I am just jealous of all the people that are/will be totally debt free. ;)  

I am going to stay in the city.  I have checked out places close to the Metro in Md, DC and VA and they are all comparably priced or even more expensive.  Plus, it would cost me an arm and a leg to move.  So there is no point in moving unless I went back home (which would quickly lead to me committing a crime and being kicked out of law school).  If I moved to the burbs, by the time I figure in gas, wear and tear on my raggedy car, time and stress it would be better to just stay where I am.  I was just wondering if people typically take out loans to handle expenses.  I guess the answer is yes. :)
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 14, 2005, 11:57:17 AM
I wished this convo existed 2 months ago. But still I am glad with my decision. GW rejected me (to my surprise), and I got into both Georgetown and Howard. Howard gave me a $15,000 and later increased it to a full ride after I told them I would be going to Georgetown. It was a tough decision and in the end my decision was based on a lot more than money. The money from HUSL was tempting, but I visited both schools and talked to students and alum for both schools and I decided that I was willing to go into debt to attend Georgetown. I compared things like: faculty, resources, classes, student satisfaction, environment, and opportunities. I also considered the advice of family (my dad is a HUSL grad and my bro currently goes there) and sorors (a lot of my chapter sorors went to HUSL). There were certain things about Howard that didn't sit well with me, IE how men and women interacted with each other on both a educational and social level, the lack of efficiency of its administration, and the quality of teaching. HUSL is a small school and though its only T3, I know a number of people who have graduated from there (all in the top of their class) that are doing well. But in the end, again, it just wasn't for me.

Thanks alot for your input. I really appreciate it.  However, I was wondering if you could expound on what I've bolded above.  What does your brother think of it?  Also, how is the social interaction between men and women? Quality of teaching?

I know about the administration from undergrad  >:(
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 14, 2005, 11:58:26 AM
Don't get caught up in those "median" salaries. Howard isn't a top tier school and I'm all for top tier schools, but I think Howard is special because of its history. Anyone wanting to go to a Historically Black College or University (HBCU) I fully support. Howard has a special place in the legal history of this country and I think a minority can do VERY WELL going there. 

When I went off to college, I had several full scholarships to predominately white institutions and HBCUs. I chose to continue my family tradition and I selected a HBCU, specifically FAMU.  I had friends who told me my opportunities would be limited, but truthfully, I've had more opportunities than I would have going to a non-HBCU. 

Bottom line is, at the end of the day you gotta go where you fit best.  Personally, I'm all for no law school debt. I have a couple of small loans (bar study loan and small loans from grad school) that I whine about paying every month. I can't fathom six-figure loan debt.

Not to be all up in your business, but how did you pay for your living expenses?  DC is sooooo expensive, but I am definitely keeping my apartment.  I could move back home, but a hellified commute coupled with dealing with my siblings on a daily basis is a recipe for flunking out by Halloween!!!!!

Hi Roxie, I don't know if this is directed at me, but I'll be paying with money I've saved this summer and with the help of my parents.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 14, 2005, 11:59:34 AM
co-sign on the bolded parts. I was wondering the same thing about this post.

I have heard HORROR STORIES about the administration.  Why is it so bad? ???
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 14, 2005, 12:01:22 PM
Hi Roxie, I don't know if this is directed at me, but I'll be paying with money I've saved this summer and with the help of my parents.
Quote

It was a question for everyone.

That is great that you have help...and that you saved.  I had a wonderful savings plan mapped out for this year and guess how much I saved....$0.00.  I am so mad at myself.

My parents plan to help me too - but I feel guilty!!
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 14, 2005, 12:05:43 PM
co-sign on the bolded parts. I was wondering the same thing about this post.

I have heard HORROR STORIES about the administration.  Why is it so bad? ???

Let's just say that Howard is...disorganized.  Students have lost their scholarships, I didn't get housing a couple of years, etc.  It can all be rather messy if you don't keep up with things (i.e documentation).
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 14, 2005, 12:06:08 PM
Hi Roxie, I don't know if this is directed at me, but I'll be paying with money I've saved this summer and with the help of my parents.
Quote

It was a question for everyone.

That is great that you have help...and that you saved.  I had a wonderful savings plan mapped out for this year and guess how much I saved....$0.00.  I am so mad at myself.

My parents plan to help me too - but I feel guilty!!

Dont feel guilty, that is what parents are for.  And if they didnt want to help, they wouldnt.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 14, 2005, 12:08:12 PM
co-sign on the bolded parts. I was wondering the same thing about this post.

I have heard HORROR STORIES about the administration.  Why is it so bad? ???

The admin at all of the HBCU law schools are bad.  They just dont take care of business the way they should.  They dont make decisions until the last minute.  They mess up things and loose things.  They blame you for their mistakes.  They dont seem to care about you or anything else.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 14, 2005, 12:10:21 PM
I wished this convo existed 2 months ago. But still I am glad with my decision. GW rejected me (to my surprise), and I got into both Georgetown and Howard. Howard gave me a $15,000 and later increased it to a full ride after I told them I would be going to Georgetown. It was a tough decision and in the end my decision was based on a lot more than money. The money from HUSL was tempting, but I visited both schools and talked to students and alum for both schools and I decided that I was willing to go into debt to attend Georgetown. I compared things like: faculty, resources, classes, student satisfaction, environment, and opportunities. I also considered the advice of family (my dad is a HUSL grad and my bro currently goes there) and sorors (a lot of my chapter sorors went to HUSL). There were certain things about Howard that didn't sit well with me, IE how men and women interacted with each other on both a educational and social level, the lack of efficiency of its administration, and the quality of teaching. HUSL is a small school and though its only T3, I know a number of people who have graduated from there (all in the top of their class) that are doing well. But in the end, again, it just wasn't for me.

Well ultimately, you were able to make the right decision for you.  I am very happy that you made the best choice for your situation.  I wish you the best of luck during law school.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 14, 2005, 01:24:55 PM
Hi Roxie, I don't know if this is directed at me, but I'll be paying with money I've saved this summer and with the help of my parents.
Quote

It was a question for everyone.

That is great that you have help...and that you saved.  I had a wonderful savings plan mapped out for this year and guess how much I saved....$0.00.  I am so mad at myself.

My parents plan to help me too - but I feel guilty!!

Dont feel guilty, that is what parents are for.  And if they didnt want to help, they wouldnt.

Even if they are old and gray and I should really be tkaing care of them??? ???
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 14, 2005, 01:33:44 PM
Hi Roxie, I don't know if this is directed at me, but I'll be paying with money I've saved this summer and with the help of my parents.
Quote

It was a question for everyone.

That is great that you have help...and that you saved.  I had a wonderful savings plan mapped out for this year and guess how much I saved....$0.00.  I am so mad at myself.

My parents plan to help me too - but I feel guilty!!

Dont feel guilty, that is what parents are for.  And if they didnt want to help, they wouldnt.

Even if they are old and gray and I should really be tkaing care of them??? ???

If you KNOW you are taking money from them that they need to survive, I would say dont take it.  If they have the money, I would say take  it and make them proud.  I dont believe parenting ends at 18 or 21 or whatever arbitrary age people have set up in their minds.  Good parents are always going to support (either financially, mentally, spiritually, physically or any other way they need to) their children in their life if they see them doing something productive.  Your parents obviously think that going to law school is something productive.  They obviously think they can afford to assist you in your journey.  Only they know if they can afford it. I would trust that they know what they are doing. 
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: jdohno on June 14, 2005, 01:42:18 PM
It looks like you evaluate everything. You made a good decision. Good luck at Georgetown this year. I might be there with you. I'm still deciding if I am going to Georgetown but I'm waiting to hear on my transfer application to UVA. Did you tell Georgetown about Howard's offer and did they give you any money?

I wished this convo existed 2 months ago. But still I am glad with my decision. GW rejected me (to my surprise), and I got into both Georgetown and Howard. Howard gave me a $15,000 and later increased it to a full ride after I told them I would be going to Georgetown. It was a tough decision and in the end my decision was based on a lot more than money. The money from HUSL was tempting, but I visited both schools and talked to students and alum for both schools and I decided that I was willing to go into debt to attend Georgetown. I compared things like: faculty, resources, classes, student satisfaction, environment, and opportunities. I also considered the advice of family (my dad is a HUSL grad and my bro currently goes there) and sorors (a lot of my chapter sorors went to HUSL). There were certain things about Howard that didn't sit well with me, IE how men and women interacted with each other on both a educational and social level, the lack of efficiency of its administration, and the quality of teaching. HUSL is a small school and though its only T3, I know a number of people who have graduated from there (all in the top of their class) that are doing well. But in the end, again, it just wasn't for me.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 14, 2005, 02:00:05 PM
Hi Roxie, I don't know if this is directed at me, but I'll be paying with money I've saved this summer and with the help of my parents.
Quote

It was a question for everyone.

That is great that you have help...and that you saved.  I had a wonderful savings plan mapped out for this year and guess how much I saved....$0.00.  I am so mad at myself.

My parents plan to help me too - but I feel guilty!!

Dont feel guilty, that is what parents are for.  And if they didnt want to help, they wouldnt.

Even if they are old and gray and I should really be tkaing care of them??? ???

If you KNOW you are taking money from them that they need to survive, I would say dont take it.  If they have the money, I would say take  it and make them proud.  I dont believe parenting ends at 18 or 21 or whatever arbitrary age people have set up in their minds.  Good parents are always going to support (either financially, mentally, spiritually, physically or any other way they need to) their children in their life if they see them doing something productive.  Your parents obviously think that going to law school is something productive.  They obviously think they can afford to assist you in your journey.  Only they know if they can afford it. I would trust that they know what they are doing. 

Of course.  They know what they are doing.  My mother and father are so generous and I appreciate it more than they know.  I will just be so happy when I am finally in a position to try to pay them back in some way.  They are extremely proud of me, but I would love to be able to break them off with a serious check one day!

I think 35 should be the cut-off!!!!! ;D  That is really enough time to get your life together, RIGHT???
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 14, 2005, 02:12:43 PM
Hi Roxie, I don't know if this is directed at me, but I'll be paying with money I've saved this summer and with the help of my parents.
Quote

It was a question for everyone.

That is great that you have help...and that you saved.  I had a wonderful savings plan mapped out for this year and guess how much I saved....$0.00.  I am so mad at myself.

My parents plan to help me too - but I feel guilty!!

Dont feel guilty, that is what parents are for.  And if they didnt want to help, they wouldnt.

Even if they are old and gray and I should really be tkaing care of them??? ???

If you KNOW you are taking money from them that they need to survive, I would say dont take it.  If they have the money, I would say take  it and make them proud.  I dont believe parenting ends at 18 or 21 or whatever arbitrary age people have set up in their minds.  Good parents are always going to support (either financially, mentally, spiritually, physically or any other way they need to) their children in their life if they see them doing something productive.  Your parents obviously think that going to law school is something productive.  They obviously think they can afford to assist you in your journey.  Only they know if they can afford it. I would trust that they know what they are doing. 

Of course.  They know what they are doing.  My mother and father are so generous and I appreciate it more than they know.  I will just be so happy when I am finally in a position to try to pay them back in some way.  They are extremely proud of me, but I would love to be able to break them off with a serious check one day!

I think 35 should be the cut-off!!!!! ;D  That is really enough time to get your life together, RIGHT???

Well, make sure you tell them often about how you feel and appreciate them.  That I am sure is more important to them than any payback of some sort.  I am sure they are proud of you.  Uhhh, 35 is probably more than enough time to get yourself together.  Yeah, if you dont have yourself together by 35, something is wrong.  Although, I would say, even at that, you should never be ashamed to ask your parents to assist you in some way if you need it.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: ckendall8kp on June 14, 2005, 02:19:01 PM

Thanks alot for your input. I really appreciate it.  However, I was wondering if you could expound on what I've bolded above.  What does your brother think of it?  Also, how is the social interaction between men and women? Quality of teaching?

I know about the administration from undergrad  >:(

Basically what my understanding is from the current students about the male-female interaction is this. The dudes think they are the best thing since sliced bread and it's kind of like a hiearchy there. They usually are in the key leadership positions in the SBA etc. Socially, I've heard that they tend to take advantage of the females there. Of course, I'm not saying that this goes for every male, but a significant enough amount for me to view it as a negative when deciding on schools. As for the teaching quality, I know some people who have hired Howard grads (not in the top of their class) and a good number of those grads do not have the analytical, critical thinking, reasoning and writing skills then some of their counterparts at top universities such as GW and GTown. Now this could be a result of HUSL or it could be a result of their previous preparation, or both combined. Again all this has been told to me.

I don't want to make it seem like HUSL is the worst school. Honestly, if I hadn't gotten into GTown, I would be at Howard (that would be if I didn't get off the waitlist at UVA). I know a few people there, again, who enjoyed their experience, and are doing well and being recruited by the top firms (they are top of their class though). It really just depends on what you are looking for in a school.

Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: faith2005 on June 14, 2005, 02:30:42 PM
lol, don't black guys at most law schools think they're the best thing since sliced bread. i thought that was a given... :D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 14, 2005, 02:50:43 PM

Thanks alot for your input. I really appreciate it.  However, I was wondering if you could expound on what I've bolded above.  What does your brother think of it?  Also, how is the social interaction between men and women? Quality of teaching?

I know about the administration from undergrad  >:(

Basically what my understanding is from the current students about the male-female interaction is this. The dudes think they are the best thing since sliced bread and it's kind of like a hiearchy there. They usually are in the key leadership positions in the SBA etc. Socially, I've heard that they tend to take advantage of the females there. Of course, I'm not saying that this goes for every male, but a significant enough amount for me to view it as a negative when deciding on schools. As for the teaching quality, I know some people who have hired Howard grads (not in the top of their class) and a good number of those grads do not have the analytical, critical thinking, reasoning and writing skills then some of their counterparts at top universities such as GW and GTown. Now this could be a result of HUSL or it could be a result of their previous preparation, or both combined. Again all this has been told to me.

I don't want to make it seem like HUSL is the worst school. Honestly, if I hadn't gotten into GTown, I would be at Howard (that would be if I didn't get off the waitlist at UVA). I know a few people there, again, who enjoyed their experience, and are doing well and being recruited by the top firms (they are top of their class though). It really just depends on what you are looking for in a school.



Why would someone hire a student or graduate that does not have analytical, critical thinking, reasoning and writing skills.  Something sounds fishy about that one.  And just how many is it, is it enough to make a statistical comparison?
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: ckendall8kp on June 14, 2005, 03:26:16 PM

Why would someone hire a student or graduate that does not have analytical, critical thinking, reasoning and writing skills.  Something sounds fishy about that one.  And just how many is it, is it enough to make a statistical comparison?


I don't think I said "does not have." I basically said it wasn't up to par with some of the grads that they hired from top universities. One of the key ways to get a job is networking and the HUSL network is tight. Thats how people get hired. As for the statistical comparison, it would be wrong for me to say I have one because I haven't done an actual study. Again I am not saying that my sources said ALL grads, just some of the ones the people I know have hired.

Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 14, 2005, 05:52:39 PM
I wished this convo existed 2 months ago. But still I am glad with my decision. GW rejected me (to my surprise), and I got into both Georgetown and Howard. Howard gave me a $15,000 and later increased it to a full ride after I told them I would be going to Georgetown. It was a tough decision and in the end my decision was based on a lot more than money. The money from HUSL was tempting, but I visited both schools and talked to students and alum for both schools and I decided that I was willing to go into debt to attend Georgetown. I compared things like: faculty, resources, classes, student satisfaction, environment, and opportunities. I also considered the advice of family (my dad is a HUSL grad and my bro currently goes there) and sorors (a lot of my chapter sorors went to HUSL). There were certain things about Howard that didn't sit well with me, IE how men and women interacted with each other on both a educational and social level, the lack of efficiency of its administration, and the quality of teaching. HUSL is a small school and though its only T3, I know a number of people who have graduated from there (all in the top of their class) that are doing well. But in the end, again, it just wasn't for me.



I like how you pimped Howard with G-Town.  Good stuff. That's how the game is played. Let these law schools battle over you.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 14, 2005, 06:00:58 PM
All black guys in law school think they are the best thing since sliced bread, that's not confined to HBCUs...

Roxie, I didn't go to a private school, I went to the University of Florida, I had a full academic fellowship. 

The administration's philsopohy at HBCUs (period, not just law schools) is very different than that at white schools, although I LOVE FAMU, I hated our administration.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 14, 2005, 06:13:38 PM
All black guys in law school think they are the best thing since sliced bread, that's not confined to HBCUs...

Roxie, I didn't go to a private school, I went to the University of Florida, I had a full academic fellowship. 

The administration's philsopohy at HBCUs (period, not just law schools) is very different than that at white schools, although I LOVE FAMU, I hated our administration.

Hey, lay off the brothers in law school, counselor
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 14, 2005, 06:15:02 PM
All black guys in law school think they are the best thing since sliced bread, that's not confined to HBCUs...

Roxie, I didn't go to a private school, I went to the University of Florida, I had a full academic fellowship. 

The administration's philsopohy at HBCUs (period, not just law schools) is very different than that at white schools, although I LOVE FAMU, I hated our administration.

Hey, lay off the brothers in law school, counselor

Sands, aren't you the law school player?
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 14, 2005, 06:15:44 PM
All black guys in law school think they are the best thing since sliced bread, that's not confined to HBCUs...

Roxie, I didn't go to a private school, I went to the University of Florida, I had a full academic fellowship. 

The administration's philsopohy at HBCUs (period, not just law schools) is very different than that at white schools, although I LOVE FAMU, I hated our administration.

Hey, lay off the brothers in law school, counselor

Sands, aren't you the law school player?


Don't you wish.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 14, 2005, 06:18:47 PM
All black guys in law school think they are the best thing since sliced bread, that's not confined to HBCUs...

Roxie, I didn't go to a private school, I went to the University of Florida, I had a full academic fellowship. 

The administration's philsopohy at HBCUs (period, not just law schools) is very different than that at white schools, although I LOVE FAMU, I hated our administration.

Hey, lay off the brothers in law school, counselor

Sands, aren't you the law school player?


Don't you wish.

Nah, I know you are.. I'm sure you'll be the law firm player.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 14, 2005, 06:25:55 PM
All black guys in law school think they are the best thing since sliced bread, that's not confined to HBCUs...

Roxie, I didn't go to a private school, I went to the University of Florida, I had a full academic fellowship. 

The administration's philsopohy at HBCUs (period, not just law schools) is very different than that at white schools, although I LOVE FAMU, I hated our administration.

Hey, lay off the brothers in law school, counselor

Sands, aren't you the law school player?


Don't you wish.

Nah, I know you are.. I'm sure you'll be the law firm player.

Not after reviewing these harrassment cases.  These cats get into e-mails and everything!  No thank you.

I got 99 problems but...
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 14, 2005, 06:29:22 PM
All black guys in law school think they are the best thing since sliced bread, that's not confined to HBCUs...

Roxie, I didn't go to a private school, I went to the University of Florida, I had a full academic fellowship. 

The administration's philsopohy at HBCUs (period, not just law schools) is very different than that at white schools, although I LOVE FAMU, I hated our administration.

Hey, lay off the brothers in law school, counselor

Sands, aren't you the law school player?


Don't you wish.

Nah, I know you are.. I'm sure you'll be the law firm player.

Not after reviewing these harrassment cases.  These cats get into e-mails and everything!  No thank you.

I got 99 problems but...

That's really real there...but you still a law school playa...lol..you a pimp from way back..
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 14, 2005, 06:35:01 PM
All black guys in law school think they are the best thing since sliced bread, that's not confined to HBCUs...

Roxie, I didn't go to a private school, I went to the University of Florida, I had a full academic fellowship. 

The administration's philsopohy at HBCUs (period, not just law schools) is very different than that at white schools, although I LOVE FAMU, I hated our administration.

Hey, lay off the brothers in law school, counselor

Sands, aren't you the law school player?


Don't you wish.

Nah, I know you are.. I'm sure you'll be the law firm player.

Not after reviewing these harrassment cases.  These cats get into e-mails and everything!  No thank you.

I got 99 problems but...

That's really real there...but you still a law school playa...lol..you a pimp from way back..

that's right girl, just ask yo mama :o
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 14, 2005, 07:38:54 PM
I wished this convo existed 2 months ago. But still I am glad with my decision. GW rejected me (to my surprise), and I got into both Georgetown and Howard. Howard gave me a $15,000 and later increased it to a full ride after I told them I would be going to Georgetown. It was a tough decision and in the end my decision was based on a lot more than money. The money from HUSL was tempting, but I visited both schools and talked to students and alum for both schools and I decided that I was willing to go into debt to attend Georgetown. I compared things like: faculty, resources, classes, student satisfaction, environment, and opportunities. I also considered the advice of family (my dad is a HUSL grad and my bro currently goes there) and sorors (a lot of my chapter sorors went to HUSL). There were certain things about Howard that didn't sit well with me, IE how men and women interacted with each other on both a educational and social level, the lack of efficiency of its administration, and the quality of teaching. HUSL is a small school and though its only T3, I know a number of people who have graduated from there (all in the top of their class) that are doing well. But in the end, again, it just wasn't for me.

Also, how did you go about telling Howard you were going to Georgetown? Email? Letter?  They have a $30,000 scholarship that I have my eyes on ;D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 15, 2005, 07:44:18 AM

Why would someone hire a student or graduate that does not have analytical, critical thinking, reasoning and writing skills.  Something sounds fishy about that one.  And just how many is it, is it enough to make a statistical comparison?


I don't think I said "does not have." I basically said it wasn't up to par with some of the grads that they hired from top universities. One of the key ways to get a job is networking and the HUSL network is tight. Thats how people get hired. As for the statistical comparison, it would be wrong for me to say I have one because I haven't done an actual study. Again I am not saying that my sources said ALL grads, just some of the ones the people I know have hired.


Ok, but is that a function of the teaching as you have attributed or the students not having that ability.  If it is the latter, that has nothing to do with the teaching and those students would be lesser students and attorneys no matter what school they attend.  I think some hiring occurs from networking, but the majority I would argue is not from networking but from recruitment and interviews.  And I wouldnt ever want to attend Howard, the way it sounds from your post. 
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 15, 2005, 07:45:00 AM
$30,000!!!!! :o  

Can you ask for more $$ even if they know you are coming?

Pearl, I was asking about how you covered living expenses during school without taking out loans.  Was that included in your fellowship?
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 15, 2005, 08:05:49 AM
$30,000!!!!! :o  

Can you ask for more $$ even if they know you are coming?

Pearl, I was asking about how you covered living expenses during school without taking out loans.  Was that included in your fellowship?

LOL :D I don't know but I'm definitely going to try.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 15, 2005, 08:06:37 AM
Is that $30,000 per year or $30,000 total for three years?
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 15, 2005, 08:08:34 AM
Is that $30,000 per year or $30,000 total for three years?


Per year  ;D
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Roxie on June 15, 2005, 08:34:33 AM
Claim it girl.....that would be the bomb!
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 15, 2005, 08:58:11 AM
Is that $30,000 per year or $30,000 total for three years?


Per year  ;D

GOOD LUCK!!!!!
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 15, 2005, 09:30:46 AM
Is that $30,000 per year or $30,000 total for three years?


Per year  ;D


Thanks!
GOOD LUCK!!!!!
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 15, 2005, 09:34:11 AM
Is that $30,000 per year or $30,000 total for three years?


Per year  ;D


Thanks!
GOOD LUCK!!!!!

You are welcome.  When will you know?
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 15, 2005, 09:42:34 AM
Is that $30,000 per year or $30,000 total for three years?


Per year  ;D


Thanks!
GOOD LUCK!!!!!

You are welcome.  When will you know?

I'm not quite sure.  Hopefully within a few days, especially since I'm in DC.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 15, 2005, 09:43:44 AM
go on by and tell them to speed up the process.  Dont forget to come tell us when you find out. :)
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Bluenine on June 15, 2005, 09:47:54 AM
go on by and tell them to speed up the process.  Dont forget to come tell us when you find out. :)

Oh of course! :)
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 15, 2005, 10:07:49 AM
Great, and you will be in my prayers.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: ckendall8kp on June 15, 2005, 11:47:26 AM

Also, how did you go about telling Howard you were going to Georgetown? Email? Letter?  They have a $30,000 scholarship that I have my eyes on ;D

I basically sent the Dean of Admission an email saying I regretfully declined their scholarship and admission offer and told them I was going to Georgetown. A few weeks later he sent me an email asking me if I was going accept the scholarship and I was confused because I already sent in my declination email (thinking that their administration wasn't efficient). So I responded to him and told him that, and he responded that they had increased my scholarship (full ride) and to call him for the specific amount. I thought about my decision a little more for a few days until I remembered I didn't choose Georgetown for financial reasons. So I had to decline HUSL again.
Title: Re: BLSD'ers: GW vs. Howard
Post by: ckendall8kp on June 15, 2005, 11:56:42 AM

Why would someone hire a student or graduate that does not have analytical, critical thinking, reasoning and writing skills.  Something sounds fishy about that one.  And just how many is it, is it enough to make a statistical comparison?


I don't think I said "does not have." I basically said it wasn't up to par with some of the grads that they hired from top universities. One of the key ways to get a job is networking and the HUSL network is tight. Thats how people get hired. As for the statistical comparison, it would be wrong for me to say I have one because I haven't done an actual study. Again I am not saying that my sources said ALL grads, just some of the ones the people I know have hired.


Ok, but is that a function of the teaching as you have attributed or the students not having that ability.  If it is the latter, that has nothing to do with the teaching and those students would be lesser students and attorneys no matter what school they attend.  I think some hiring occurs from networking, but the majority I would argue is not from networking but from recruitment and interviews.  And I wouldnt ever want to attend Howard, the way it sounds from your post. 

I think I stated in an earlier post that it could have been the teaching or their previous preparation before law school that attributed to their ability. I never said that it was only teaching. Furthermore, if a law school admits someone that lacks those essential abilities, I would have to question that law school for not screening better. So all in all, it still boils down to the law school. I'm not saying that hiring doesn't occur from recruitment and interviews. The people I spoke with gave preferential treatment to Howard grads because they were that, Howard grads.

Top firms go to HUSL  for minority students. But really they only consider the top 10%. If you're not in that range, then you are pretty much out of luck. So though many of the top firms go to HUSL, they are only there to interview the 20 or so students in the top of their class.  Rarely do they extend offers to any one outside the top of the class. How do I know this? Many students and grads from HUSL have told me this.

Again, I'm not saying that HUSL is a bad school. Some of my closest friends go/went there and are doing EXTREMELY WELL and are getting a lot of opportunities(they are in the top of their class though). It just wasn't the place for me.
Title: What do you think about Southern in Baton Rouge?
Post by: christylove on June 21, 2005, 11:48:21 AM
I have been looking at Southern for Fall in 06. I have not heard anything about it that is negative so far, LSAT 145 and GPA 2.6 are the minimum for acceptance. Has anybody heard anything about it?
Title: Re: What do you think about Southern in Baton Rouge?
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 21, 2005, 11:56:47 AM
I know a couple professors there and know a few people who have graduated and it is a very good school.  Dont let the rankings and numbers for entry fool you.  HBCU is going there starting in the fall so he will be able to tell you loads I am sure. 
Title: Re: What do you think about Southern in Baton Rouge?
Post by: awesome on June 21, 2005, 12:47:20 PM
My homeboy HBCU.EDU is going there in the fall.  If you are going there, you should chat with him.  He went to visit there and felt at home.  He seems excited about being a Jaguar.  Good Luck
Title: Re: What do you think about Southern in Baton Rouge?
Post by: HBCU.EDU on June 21, 2005, 04:22:08 PM
I have been looking at Southern for Fall in 06. I have not heard anything about it that is negative so far, LSAT 145 and GPA 2.6 are the minimum for acceptance. Has anybody heard anything about it?

Hi Christylove- Where are you from by the way? Are in in LA? What school did you go to Undergrad? First of all SU Law's website needs a lot of work. I hate it and I look forward to the day they make an update on that marketing tool.  However, don’t let that sway you. I think you should definitely take some time to visit the campus. If you went to an HBCU undergrad you will probably have a better time making a transition to the school. I was surprised to find out that the SU LAW is 30% white. That really doesn't matter though. I was at SU Law last month and I enjoyed visiting the campus. I spoke to the teachers...visited the library. …and spoke to the students and I was very impressed. A lot of the students that I spoke to were about to graduate and go on to big things. Most of the students there are from the south and specifically LA. They only accept 10% of out of state students. They receive 1200 applications each year and they only accept about 130 students so make sure you have a bomb ass personal statement. 80% of the black lawyers in LA are graduates from SU. Hit me up on PM and I'll tell you more about my experience there and also send you more information.


(http://www.subr.edu/map/mimages/law.jpg)

http://www.subr.edu/map/law.htm

This is a link to the campus map. You will be able to see all of the buildings on the campus. The law school is located on SUs main campus. You can click the drop down button to see all the buildings. Also, at the very bottom of the page there is a link that says "images around the campus"...the school is located off the banks of the mississippi. Law in the bayou. I love the south and good luck.
 
Title: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: pinkgeeta on June 22, 2005, 11:22:35 AM
Hi All,
I am currently in the process of deciding between UM law and NCCU law (North Carolina Central) and am looking for any advice, thoughts, or knowledge about either of the schools.  I am leaning toward NCCU for quality of life purposes, but wanted to see if anyone has information about either school.  Thanks!
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: pinkgeeta on June 22, 2005, 11:23:23 AM
Sorry - UM is U. of Miami. Thanks!
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Playa222 on June 22, 2005, 11:38:51 AM
Ok I apologize for bumping the old thread, but I was just browsing on the nalp directory and saw that top firms like Cravath and Wachtell do on campus interviews at Howard.  Do any of you think that if one were to go to Howard and place in the top 5% and be on Law Review (yeah I know thats a big if), one would have a better shot at making it into a top firm then going to a T14 and being ranked in the middle of the class.  You guys seem to be very knowledgeable so I'd appreciate any comments.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: A. on June 22, 2005, 12:25:57 PM
I am not in any way bashing Howard, but I would like to point out that just because a firm interviews at a place does not mean you have even a decent shot at getting a position.  Lots of firms probably interview at Howard, go to the minority job fairs, etc. just so they can say they do so.  If you do a search at these firms' websites, you will see just how many Howard grads are there: 1 at Wachtell and 2 at Cravath.  This is out of several hundred lawyers.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Playa222 on June 22, 2005, 12:47:19 PM
I am not in any way bashing Howard, but I would like to point out that just because a firm interviews at a place does not mean you have even a decent shot at getting a position.  Lots of firms probably interview at Howard, go to the minority job fairs, etc. just so they can say they do so.  If you do a search at these firms' websites, you will see just how many Howard grads are there: 1 at Wachtell and 2 at Cravath.  This is out of several hundred lawyers.

Yes, I did notice this, but I also noticed that many of these firms have a number of Blacks that is in the single digits (or close to it).  My question really is would someone have a better chance of working at a top firm if they were ranked in the middle at a T14 of the top of Howard?  I know that these firms usually have some type of cutoff that u needed to be ranked above even if you are at a T14. 
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on June 22, 2005, 12:56:42 PM
it really depends....

it isn't only about where you go to law school Playa.. what you do in law school matters as well.. the type of "package" that you create for yourself with choosing classes for example will make you more marketable..


let's not forget that Howard paved the way for Black Lawyers...the Howard name will still take you very far.. regardless of the fact that it is T4..it is well respected

whether it's Harvard or Howard.. at the end of the day you still aren't guaranteed a job once you complete your JD..
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: A. on June 22, 2005, 01:04:44 PM
I am not in any way bashing Howard, but I would like to point out that just because a firm interviews at a place does not mean you have even a decent shot at getting a position.  Lots of firms probably interview at Howard, go to the minority job fairs, etc. just so they can say they do so.  If you do a search at these firms' websites, you will see just how many Howard grads are there: 1 at Wachtell and 2 at Cravath.  This is out of several hundred lawyers.

Yes, I did notice this, but I also noticed that many of these firms have a number of Blacks that is in the single digits (or close to it).  My question really is would someone have a better chance of working at a top firm if they were ranked in the middle at a T14 of the top of Howard?  I know that these firms usually have some type of cutoff that u needed to be ranked above even if you are at a T14. 

I think that would depend on which T14 you're talking about.

EDIT: And just because Howard is T4 does not mean you should assume that it would be easy to be in the top 5%.  So the better question is which school would give you better job prospects taking into consideration a number of scenarios.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Playa222 on June 22, 2005, 01:15:03 PM
Yeah, true you both made some very good points.  I guess if I had to choose right now I'd prob go w/ the T14 (assuming I get into one), but now that I have noticed these other aspects it does give me something else to think about...
Title: Re: What do you think about Southern in Baton Rouge?
Post by: christylove on June 22, 2005, 02:12:30 PM
I have been looking at Southern for Fall in 06. I have not heard anything about it that is negative so far, LSAT 145 and GPA 2.6 are the minimum for acceptance. Has anybody heard anything about it?

Hi Christylove- Where are you from by the way? Are in in LA? What school did you go to Undergrad? First of all SU Law's website needs a lot of work. I hate it and I look forward to the day they make an update on that marketing tool.  However, don’t let that sway you. I think you should definitely take some time to visit the campus. If you went to an HBCU undergrad you will probably have a better time making a transition to the school. I was surprised to find out that the SU LAW is 30% white. That really doesn't matter though. I was at SU Law last month and I enjoyed visiting the campus. I spoke to the teachers...visited the library. …and spoke to the students and I was very impressed. A lot of the students that I spoke to were about to graduate and go on to big things. Most of the students there are from the south and specifically LA. They only accept 10% of out of state students. They receive 1200 applications each year and they only accept about 130 students so make sure you have a bomb ass personal statement. 80% of the black lawyers in LA are graduates from SU. Hit me up on PM and I'll tell you more about my experience there and also send you more information.


(http://www.subr.edu/map/mimages/law.jpg)

http://www.subr.edu/map/law.htm

This is a link to the campus map. You will be able to see all of the buildings on the campus. The law school is located on SUs main campus. You can click the drop down button to see all the buildings. Also, at the very bottom of the page there is a link that says "images around the campus"...the school is located off the banks of the mississippi. Law in the bayou. I love the south and good luck.
 
WOW! Thank you for the info. I am originally from Cols. OH. I now live in Atlanta and I attended an online program through Colorado Technical Univ. majoring in Criminal Justice. It is a nationally accredited program. I am very interested in attending Southern, my personal statement is very intense. I am relying on it and my gpa which was 3.7. I have not recieved my LSAT score it should be back by the 27th. Thank you so much for the info. I will try to chat with HBCU later this week. Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 22, 2005, 02:22:43 PM
I am not in any way bashing Howard, but I would like to point out that just because a firm interviews at a place does not mean you have even a decent shot at getting a position.  Lots of firms probably interview at Howard, go to the minority job fairs, etc. just so they can say they do so.  If you do a search at these firms' websites, you will see just how many Howard grads are there: 1 at Wachtell and 2 at Cravath.  This is out of several hundred lawyers.

Yes, I did notice this, but I also noticed that many of these firms have a number of Blacks that is in the single digits (or close to it).  My question really is would someone have a better chance of working at a top firm if they were ranked in the middle at a T14 of the top of Howard?  I know that these firms usually have some type of cutoff that u needed to be ranked above even if you are at a T14. 

I think that would depend on which T14 you're talking about.

EDIT: And just because Howard is T4 does not mean you should assume that it would be easy to be in the top 5%.  So the better question is which school would give you better job prospects taking into consideration a number of scenarios.

I thoght Howard was a T3 school?
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on June 22, 2005, 02:24:15 PM
my bad it is T3.. u know i don't keep up with all these rankings  :D
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 22, 2005, 02:26:19 PM
I will let it slide this time. ;)

Keep up with your rankings from now on.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on June 22, 2005, 02:30:26 PM
never that... didn't do it before law school..not about to start now ;)


I will let it slide this time. ;)

Keep up with your rankings from now on.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 22, 2005, 03:09:54 PM
Ah, you know you want to...look, I will give you a US News free, just to get your started.   ;)
Title: Re: What do you think about Southern in Baton Rouge?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on June 23, 2005, 02:21:28 PM
Ahhh...BLSD at work.  It's beautiful. :)
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GJU1003 on June 23, 2005, 03:49:24 PM
I am actually really glad I found this thread. I just got off the waitlist at Howard and I now have a week to decided between a Tier 1 school I had already paid my deposit to, got scholarship money from, and had been set to go to: and Howard. At first I was thinking turn down Howard but I feel like Howards location in DC alone and rep for training black attorneys will offer me more employment opps then my school which has a mostly regional rep. Any comments or suggestions would be immensly helpful
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 23, 2005, 03:50:35 PM
I am actually really glad I found this thread. I just got off the waitlist at Howard and I now have a week to decided between a Tier 1 school I had already paid my deposit to, got scholarship money from, and had been set to go to: and Howard. At first I was thinking turn down Howard but I feel like Howards location in DC alone and rep for training black attorneys will offer me more employment opps then my school which has a mostly regional rep. Any comments or suggestions would be immensly helpful

which school?
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GJU1003 on June 23, 2005, 03:53:15 PM
Ohio State
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 23, 2005, 03:54:28 PM
Ohio State

are you from Ohio?  how much financial aid are both schools offering?
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GJU1003 on June 23, 2005, 03:57:34 PM
Yes I am from Ohio so I get In state tuition plus they gave m an aditional 10K so I have to pay like 4000 in tuition and fees and then my housing. Howard has offered me  no funds as of yet and seeing as I was taken off the waitlist I do not know if they will be offering me any..
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 23, 2005, 04:05:07 PM
Yes I am from Ohio so I get In state tuition plus they gave m an aditional 10K so I have to pay like 4000 in tuition and fees and then my housing. Howard has offered me  no funds as of yet and seeing as I was taken off the waitlist I do not know if they will be offering me any..

where do you want to work? 
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GJU1003 on June 23, 2005, 04:06:56 PM
I am not certain as of yet but I kind of feel like at OSU I would be limited to Ohio or the Midwest whereas I oculd see myself wanting to work in DC or even in ATL where I went to college
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 23, 2005, 04:10:07 PM
I am not certain as of yet but I kind of feel like at OSU I would be limited to Ohio or the Midwest whereas I oculd see myself wanting to work in DC or even in ATL where I went to college

well OSU is such a big school that I'm sure they'd have a lot of contacts elsewhere.  You might want to call the career placement office and find out who specifically recruits there and see if they can put you in touch with the groups BLSA.  additionally RBG went their for undergrad so you might want to ask him what he may have heard regarding the law school environment.  personally I think it would be tough to pass up the money and I just don't know if Howard would give you any more options compared to the price tag
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Busybee on June 23, 2005, 04:19:13 PM
Does anyone know if the op choose Howard in the end?? I guess so as she doesn't seem to have posted after she said she sent in her deposit!!
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Statistic on June 23, 2005, 04:25:18 PM
Yes I am from Ohio so I get In state tuition plus they gave m an aditional 10K so I have to pay like 4000 in tuition and fees and then my housing. Howard has offered me  no funds as of yet and seeing as I was taken off the waitlist I do not know if they will be offering me any..

ohio state it is
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GJU1003 on June 23, 2005, 04:39:04 PM
RBG have you heard good things about the law school or know any law school students?
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Statistic on June 23, 2005, 04:59:37 PM
RBG have you heard good things about the law school or know any law school students?

no. not at all. I haven't heard anything either way.
Title: Howard 05-06
Post by: GJU1003 on June 24, 2005, 09:10:56 AM
Anyone going to Howard this yr? If so what attracted you to the school. Any current Howard rising 2L'S and 3L's ? What do you like or dislike most about the school. ANy help would be much appreciated
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Fabyahluss on June 24, 2005, 05:01:18 PM
What exactly is your situation? Have you gotten in but are debating between HUSL and another school? If so, what school? Have you been offered any money?

Answering these questions might help people tailor their responses to fit the concerns you have or the questions you need answered.

There are a few people on this board who will definitely be attending Howard this fall, but I've never seen a post from a current student.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: GJU1003 on June 24, 2005, 10:03:19 PM
I have just been pulled off the waitlist and have til July 1st to decide between OSU and Howard. I am having a hard time deciding. I am not sure where I want to work after graduation as well although I would not mind working in Ohio I do not necessarily want to be limited there. I got 10 g's from OSU so as a resident I only pay 4K tuition and Howard gave me 7500. Which would be almost comparible were the cost of living in DC not so much more than it is in Columbus Ohio
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on June 25, 2005, 03:33:44 PM
If you can, visit before you accept.  I was accepted back in Feb. and went to the Open House and was very disappointed.  Before I went I would have chosen Howard of any other law school.  Though, it may be different for you.  Now I'm attending UF in the fall.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: GJU1003 on June 25, 2005, 04:14:53 PM
what specifically did you not like?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: kloud9nupe on June 25, 2005, 05:12:06 PM
I will be attending Howard this fall.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: John Galt on June 26, 2005, 08:50:38 AM
Go to Howard. I go to UG there and I can tell you from interacting with law students (i live in a graduate dorm) that they love it there. The law school campus is about 15 minutes away from the main campus. The facilities at the Law School are state of the art, they just opened a new library two years ago, the curriculum is heavily social justice based (but grads have no problem obtaining jobs at the top law firms). The history is incomparable - Howard has graduated numerous judges and influential lawyers including Charles Hamilton Houston and Thurgood Marshall. And having a degree from Howard = instant credibility in the black community. Things to think about. Good luck
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on June 26, 2005, 09:04:16 AM
Sorry, I don't know much about either school.  Do you have a preference about where you want to practice afterward?
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: jdohno on June 26, 2005, 09:11:44 AM
Well the quality of life at NCCU will only last for about three years. With law school, the ability to get a job after graduation should be one of the top factors if not the top one. You will have some good opportunites coming out of Miami. NCCU has Duke, UNC and Wake Forest and even Campbell in it's backyard so the job opportunities are very very slim unless you're in the top 5% of the class. Also where do you want to practice? There aren't many biglaw firms in North Carolina. Some of the companies there have in house counsel but they usually hire attorneys with a few years of experience. Even if they do hire new attorneys, in house counsel might not be a great place to start for a new grad. So these are some of the other things you might want to keep in mind regarding Miami vs NCCU. Good luck.

Hi All,
I am currently in the process of deciding between UM law and NCCU law (North Carolina Central) and am looking for any advice, thoughts, or knowledge about either of the schools.  I am leaning toward NCCU for quality of life purposes, but wanted to see if anyone has information about either school.  Thanks!
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: shantee222 on June 26, 2005, 09:27:44 AM
I was accepted at Univ of Miami (with a substantial scholarship) but I chose not to attend because I did not want to live or work in Florida during law school and after I graduated.  I'm from North Carolina and I went to undergrad at NC State which is not that far (about 25 min) from Central.  I have a friend that is at NCCU law school and she really enjoys it.  She was not in the top 5% of her class and she was able to land really good summer internships.  She is going into her last year of school and she pretty much already has her job arranged and she is really excited about the firm she will be working for.  However if you want to go into big law NCCU is not the place to go.  Duke places many of its grads outside of NC but Carolina, Wake and Campbell place heavily in NC and many of those grads get looked at first for the larger firms. However, Central is still well respected in North Carolina. NCCU is cheaper than the Univ  of Miami and the city of Durham is cheaper than Miami so if you are trying to save money and aren't interested in BigLaw NCCU is a fine place to go. 
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 26, 2005, 11:14:19 AM
John Galt--go to Yale.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on June 26, 2005, 12:05:09 PM
I'm from Florida so the up north atmosphere for me was not very appealing.  Howard seemed to have very snotty people running their operation.  The facilities are a far cry away from state of the art.  They did just build a new library, which is very nice, but there classrooms were horrible.  No Wifi, No laptop connections, dim lighting, creeky floors, an old AME Church smell to it.  Those are all reasons why I chose not to attend.  I just did not see where my 16000 tuition would have been going.  Dean McGahee, the dean of admissions was way too young.  He was far too friendly with the women and seemed to joke around a little too much for me.  The environment at the law school seemed to be very pep rally like.  It seemed too good to be true.  The people there seemed not to be real.  We sat in on a mock class and the professor came off as very arrogant.  Instead of being welcoming she demoralized anyone who tried to answer her questions.  I would have been paying too much money for someone to be putting me down.  My parents went with me to visit Howard and my mom was very disappointed.  The only thing that Howard had that was appealing to me was its legacy.  Aside from that, Howard really hasn't done much, in my opinion.  They were too focused on civil rights and litigation. 
I wanted a law school that offered a broad basis of legal studies. I have visited FSU, UMiami, and UF and felt very welcomed and loved the facilities.  They all were very professional and produce excellent attorneys that are well prepared for the legal profession.  Oh yeah, another thing was the dean of admissions kept giving us reasons why Howard might not be the place for us.  I flew 1000 miles spent nearly 1000 dollars to hear that.  No.  He alone convinced me not to attend. 

P.S.  My mom did not attend college and my dad is a Morehouse Grad so I have nothing against HBCUs. 
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: pinkgeeta on June 27, 2005, 06:13:46 AM
So here's where it gets complicated.  I live in GA, and actually want to practice in Atlanta (possibly big law) for a few years.  It would be ideal if I can transfer to GA, but I know that this is not a guarantee.  When I speak of quality of life, I mean life outside of law school - I'm married, and my husband is staying in GA.  It's a good deal closer than Miami.

Shantee222, what year did you graduate from NCSU? Is your friend going to practice in NC?
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: shantee222 on June 27, 2005, 07:49:00 AM
I graduated from NC State in May of this year.  My friend is going to practice in North Carolina and I am not too sure about how well NCCU places outside of North Carolina.  My advice for you would be to go to www.nalpdirectory.com and search for firms in GA that recruit from NCCU and firms that recruit from Miami.  I think if you keep your grades up you will probably be able to get accepted as a transfer student at a school in Georgia.  I also want to practice in GA and that is why I chose to attend Emory despite the fact that I got a scholarship from Miami.  My boyfriend and I are going to have to do the long distance thing for a while too since he still has a semester left at NC State. 

Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: jdohno on June 27, 2005, 07:50:55 AM
I'm sorry when most people ask about quality of life it usually means other things. Did you apply to Georgia State, UGA or Emory? It looks like going to school in Florida might be a good bet for you unless you want to stay out for a year and reapply to schools in Georgia. Will your husband move with you to North Carolina? I'm transferring from my school right now. It's not a good idea to go into law school with the idea of transferring. Even though I went in with the idea and it helped to keep me motivated, you really have to put those thoughts on the back burner because it will stress you out.
Well good luck with your decision.


So here's where it gets complicated.  I live in GA, and actually want to practice in Atlanta (possibly big law) for a few years.  It would be ideal if I can transfer to GA, but I know that this is not a guarantee.  When I speak of quality of life, I mean life outside of law school - I'm married, and my husband is staying in GA.  It's a good deal closer than Miami.

Shantee222, what year did you graduate from NCSU? Is your friend going to practice in NC?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 27, 2005, 08:21:38 AM
I'm from Florida so the up north atmosphere for me was not very appealing.  Howard seemed to have very snotty people running their operation.  The facilities are a far cry away from state of the art.  They did just build a new library, which is very nice, but there classrooms were horrible.  No Wifi, No laptop connections, dim lighting, creeky floors, an old AME Church smell to it.  Those are all reasons why I chose not to attend.  I just did not see where my 16000 tuition would have been going.  Dean McGahee, the dean of admissions was way too young.  He was far too friendly with the women and seemed to joke around a little too much for me.  The environment at the law school seemed to be very pep rally like.  It seemed too good to be true.  The people there seemed not to be real.  We sat in on a mock class and the professor came off as very arrogant.  Instead of being welcoming she demoralized anyone who tried to answer her questions.  I would have been paying too much money for someone to be putting me down.  My parents went with me to visit Howard and my mom was very disappointed.  The only thing that Howard had that was appealing to me was its legacy.  Aside from that, Howard really hasn't done much, in my opinion.  They were too focused on civil rights and litigation. 
I wanted a law school that offered a broad basis of legal studies. I have visited FSU, UMiami, and UF and felt very welcomed and loved the facilities.  They all were very professional and produce excellent attorneys that are well prepared for the legal profession.  Oh yeah, another thing was the dean of admissions kept giving us reasons why Howard might not be the place for us.  I flew 1000 miles spent nearly 1000 dollars to hear that.  No.  He alone convinced me not to attend. 

P.S.  My mom did not attend college and my dad is a Morehouse Grad so I have nothing against HBCUs. 

GO GATORS!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on June 29, 2005, 04:06:46 PM
I'm from Florida so the up north atmosphere for me was not very appealing.  Howard seemed to have very snotty people running their operation.  The facilities are a far cry away from state of the art.  They did just build a new library, which is very nice, but there classrooms were horrible.  No Wifi, No laptop connections, dim lighting, creeky floors, an old AME Church smell to it.  Those are all reasons why I chose not to attend.  I just did not see where my 16000 tuition would have been going.  Dean McGahee, the dean of admissions was way too young.  He was far too friendly with the women and seemed to joke around a little too much for me.  The environment at the law school seemed to be very pep rally like.  It seemed too good to be true.  The people there seemed not to be real.  We sat in on a mock class and the professor came off as very arrogant.  Instead of being welcoming she demoralized anyone who tried to answer her questions.  I would have been paying too much money for someone to be putting me down.  My parents went with me to visit Howard and my mom was very disappointed.  The only thing that Howard had that was appealing to me was its legacy.  Aside from that, Howard really hasn't done much, in my opinion.  They were too focused on civil rights and litigation. 
I wanted a law school that offered a broad basis of legal studies. I have visited FSU, UMiami, and UF and felt very welcomed and loved the facilities.  They all were very professional and produce excellent attorneys that are well prepared for the legal profession.  Oh yeah, another thing was the dean of admissions kept giving us reasons why Howard might not be the place for us.  I flew 1000 miles spent nearly 1000 dollars to hear that.  No.  He alone convinced me not to attend. 

P.S.  My mom did not attend college and my dad is a Morehouse Grad so I have nothing against HBCUs. 

I am very disappointed to read your complaints about HUSL. I will tell you where your 16000 dollars would put you... that is at a top US firm.  You need to look at the type of firms, government offices and public interest organizations that recruit at Howard. If you want to pay 16K to go to a regional school that would not allow you access to the National market, then do so... but Howard is a National Law school. 

I am a rising 2L at Howard Law and I assure you that I am not disappointed with my choice... and yes I did visit majority schools and yes I did get full scholarships... but when I check the numbers 100K+ a year after graduation with the option of interviewing at top firms was way too much for me to turn down.

As for the pep rally... sister... without that law school would be boring!  Trust me you need a family to make it through law school.  I can attest that when things are down for you and you need someone... there is ALWAYS someone at the HUSL to help. 

And for the humiliation in Professor Broussard's mock class... sister if you are not ready... you better GET ready... that is law school for you.  So if UF, U Miami and FSU did not keep it real with you... Howard surely did.  If you never heard of the Socratic method.. the I suggest that you check it out.  I promise that you will feel humiliated no matter what law school you attend.

However, as a budding legal professional... I wish you all success in your career as an attorney to be.  And I assure you, no matter where you end up... you will run across a distinguished graduate of Howard University School of Law, the Law School that beat out Harvard in the 2005 National Mock Trial Competion!

Peace
HUSL 2007
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: HUSL2007 on June 29, 2005, 04:25:27 PM
I am a rising 2L at Howard Law.  I am at the top of the class (at least I hope so :)  Well I will tell you this... Howard is where it is at.  I am working at a Firm this summer and I get a lot of respect from the Partners and Associates...

I am constantly told that I don't sound like, act like and perform as a 1st year student.  All I do is smile and say thank you.  Trust me... when you graduate from Howard you can get any job you set your eyes on. 

I have a friend working with me from Vanderbuilt and she was explaining to me that top firms like the one that recruit at Howard don't turn up at there school to recruit.  There are current 17 blacks at my firm... 4 of which are Howard Grads... no other school can say that...

So when I joined the firm I had 4 Howard Law Grads looking out for me.  Oh and there are coming in the fall to recruit some more Howard Students... I can't wait...

I am loving it at the HUSL.

Hard work pays off.

People who cry about not getting jobs are the people that party 24 hrs a day.  If you sit down and apply yourself.. there is no way you would not get a top firm job.  But in EVERY class there are slackers and the curve would weed them out QUICKLY!

Peace

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on June 29, 2005, 04:32:59 PM
finally....a Howard Law student to tell them the deal... welcome to the board
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on June 29, 2005, 04:36:48 PM
finally....a Howard Law student to tell them the deal... welcome to the board

No prob.  If anyone has questions send me an email address and I will answer any questions you have about Howard.  I will keep it real.

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HBCU.EDU on June 29, 2005, 08:20:47 PM
finally....a Howard Law student to tell them the deal... welcome to the board

No prob.  If anyone has questions send me an email address and I will answer any questions you have about Howard.  I will keep it real.

HUSL2007

Good post HUSL.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: jdohno on June 29, 2005, 09:27:33 PM
Good luck at UF, Monimone. You made the best decision for yourself. Visiting a law school regardless if it's Howard or somewhere else before you commit to it is an important thing for people to do. I also visited Howard (in fact twice) before I decided it wasn't for me either. Howard is among many law schools people can choose from that might have supportive environments. It's not the only one.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on June 30, 2005, 12:00:35 AM
HUSL2007,
First of all, I wasn't knocking Howard.  If thats the place for you then so be it.  If you like the pep rally environment then so be it.  But you won't have a pep rally when you are in a law firm.  Howard may put out good numbers in well known law firms but that doesn't make them any better than a regional school.  Do you honestly think that Howard can place better in Florida than Stetson, I think not.  And yes UF is a national school and no law school in the nation places better in Florida than UF.  That's why its called a Tier 1 law school.  And it costs me just 8,000.  And I see where every penny of it goes.  Get off of it! 

The money that you would supposedly make and the firms that you would supposedly interview at are nothing but statistical probabilities.  P-R-O-B-A-B-I-L-I-T-I-E-S.  Meaning you probably will or you probably won't.  The fact is, its all dependent on the individual person.  Because of my work ethic and intellect I could possibly have a shot at even more top firms with greater compensation.  I hope that is not your only reason for attending.  Nor should it be anyones for any law school.  If you think that the amount of money that you will make at a top firm will demonstrate how well Howard has prepared you for the profession, you are sadly mistakened.  If you think that working at a top firm makes you any better than the next you are sadly mistakened and will be a detriment to the legal professsion.  Its about helping people that need help not about putting as much money in your pocket as possible!!!  After a year of law school you would think that you would know that.  Especially at HUSL where they produce "Social Engineers."  The sooner you realize that the sooner you will truly become an advocate for the people's interests. 

As far as Prof. whats her name, I refuse to pay her salary so that she may demoralize me in front of my peers.  Its one thing to question my prepartion but to result to sheer personal humiliation, that's unnecessary.  If anything Howard should teach their students humility and etiquitte within the profession.  I sat in on a class at the University of Miami and that professor was very professional and humble.  A student didn't know the answer and he didn't make them feel as if they don't belong, he moved on.  That's the real world.  No one's going to hold your hand and criticize you until you get it right when you have inaccuracies on a document that you drafted for a client.  That client is going to move on.  That's law school in a professional way. And yes, I know what the socratic method is.  That's something that we learned right here at UF in undergrad.  Don't think that I am adverse to that type of class atmosphere.  I thrive in it.   

Howard is a very disorganized institution.  I have heard time and time again from Howard students that the financial aid office does things on their time.  Do you honestly think that I will risk being evicted because of the lack of professionalism of the financial aid office, nope.  At UF my financial aid is already set, ELECTRONICALLY.  It will be directly deposited into my account during the first week of class.  All of it.  The dean of admissions personally called me to convince me to attend UF.  Did Howard do that, no.  They acted as if they did me a favor by admitting me.  I'd like to think we did each other favor had I accepted.  In the past two years or so Howard has not gotten one UF undergrad student, why is that?  Why do we all seem to turn down the offer?  I'm glad that you are content with the decision that you have made but I would'nt have.   And I know another girl who went to FSU who chose Nova's Shephard Law Center over Howard.  That's serious!!!  The fact that my moma even was disgusted with the conduct, that says a lot to me.  My dad went to Morehouse and was not that impressed as well.  Instead of attacking me, how about you take these complaints to your dean of admission so that he may review the way your open house is conducted.  The sooner HUSL confronts these issues the sooner it will be able better its image because in my opinion, it fell far short of what I expected lady!

P.S. You seem to make a lot of assumptions (about 4).  One of which is that I am a woman, I'm man baby.  As budding legal professional you would think that you would conduct some research in the form of questions before you assume attributes.  Maybe you should have been at the open house so that you could assist me in better understanding the better qualities of HUSL!!!  And I still don't know where the 16,000 goes.  Firm connections are nothing but networking that doesn't take much of monetary investment to conduct.  If there are serious financial transactions occuring in this regard I'm sure that the ABA would be interested in hearing more.  Just keepin' it real flawda style!!!  On a positive note there are some beautiful women at HUSL and I am sure that you are one of them. 
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Omegaman on June 30, 2005, 12:53:55 AM
Just in case some might think the socratic method and rude profs are limited to Howard. I wonder if these methods have detered folks from attending Harvard, like it seems to have done to Howard?
The Harvard Crimson
   Originally published on Monday, June 27, 2005 in the News section of The Harvard Crimson.

BOOKENDS: What Kiwi Taught Us About HLS
By WILLIAM C. MARRA
Crimson Staff Writer

In The People vs. Harvard Law, Andrew Peyton Thomas puts his alma mater on trial for sacrificing free speech on its campus in the name of political correctness. His readers shouldn’t be surprised if they come away from the book with a guilty verdict.

Thomas’ argument is that since the late 1970s the Harvard Law School (HLS) campus has been taken over by far-left “Crits,” or followers of the Critical Legal Studies school of thought. As “postmodernism [applied] to law,” Critical Legal Studies aims to deconstruct the biases inherent in the legal system.

But according to Thomas, the movement’s alternative practices, spurning the traditional rigors of scholarship, have only “sapped the intellectual regimen” of HLS. Crit professors have come to dominate intellectual life on the school’s campus—and have tried, with great success, to see their brand of radical theory seep into the curriculum and influence the next generation of lawyers. Most perniciously, Crits have attempted to remake society through laws, to purge society of all its biases—racial, gender, or otherwise. They try to do this through censorship of all dissenting views, Thomas argues, and the results are disastrous.

Thomas frames his book around a series of events that rocked the HLS campus in 2002. The free speech crisis began when a 16-year old first-year law student—a prodigy named Kiwi Camara— submitted class notes to a school website that included the epithet “nig” as an abbreviation for African Americans. After one student complained, another student sent an anonymous e-mail to many members of the freshman class in which he complained about the response of African Americans to Camara’s email, adding that “I have actually begun using the word ‘n-word’ more often than before the incident.”

Two days later, Professor Charles R. Nesson ’60 went into another instructor’s class and revealed the anonymous e-mailer to be first-year law student Matthias Scholl (who had given Nesson permission to disclose his identity). Nesson proposed that the class hold a mock trial of Scholl. For that proposal, Nesson would eventually be asked by a dean to stop teaching his freshman torts class.

These events occurred within a month of an incident in Professor David Rosenberg’s first-year torts class in which the often-blunt professor stated that “Feminists, Marxists, and the blacks have contributed nothing to torts.” According to a later clarification, Rosenberg was referring to Feminist, Marxist, and black Crits, but this made no difference. In the already-tense climate of HLS, his comments did not go unpunished. Administrators would later declare attendance of Rosenberg’s course to be optional, effectively repudiating the Socratic method—HLS’s rigorous method of questioning students—for that course.

These incidents led a black student group to call for a speech code on campus. Thomas’ book follows HLS through the next three tumultuous years, during which time a speech code was a very real possibility. But he does not stick religiously to the plot: as Thomas introduces different professors and administrators, he often gives extensive histories of their legal and political careers. It is in these biographical sketches that he is harshest.

Most notably, Climenko Professor Charles J. Ogletree comes across as a man more interested in furthering his chances of being appointed to the Supreme Court than in performing genuine academic work. And former HLS Dean Robert C. Clark is dubbed “Boneless Bob,” an unprincipled administrator who otherwise believes in free speech but was cowed into submission by the Crits.

It quickly becomes clear that what Thomas dislikes most is a lack of principles, a “bonelessness” that he detects in both Ogletree and Clark. Neither are willing to stand for principles, he contends—only for power. To Thomas, this is worse than being a Crit. Crits and other far-left advocates will always exist and can be expected to advocate loudly for their cause. They even will continue to throw around accusations of racism against those who show insufficient support for affirmative action, in order to intimidate others to go along with their goals. Thomas argues it is the obligation of those who disagree with the Crits to stand up in the face of their accusations. He suggests that Clark and others, however, decided to go along with the charade rather than stick up for what they might otherwise believe is right. According to Thomas, the collective experiences of Nesson and Rosenberg taught other professors that dissent from Crit theory would be met with loud, potentially career-ending protests. Too many professors began to follow the route of least intellectual resistance, and the result was the intellectual suicide of America’s oldest and arguably most prestigious law school.

In this light, it becomes clear why Professor Alan Dershowitz is the unlikely hero of the book. A steadfast free speech advocate, he stands up against the calls for a speech code, arguing convincingly that they are both impractical and oppressive. A man who shares Thomas’ free speech absolutism, Dershowitz becomes the author’s archetype for how all left-but-not-far-left professors should have responded to the crisis.

Because the book has so much of an ideological slant—it is more Sean Hannity than Bob Woodward—the reader may find himself questioning whether Thomas gives a complete account of what happened at HLS in 2002. He certainly does not present his readers with some of the stronger arguments for limiting certain racist speech on campus. Thomas uses a clever tact throughout the book to preserve as much of an appearance of impartiality as possible: rather than voicing his own opinion, he peppers his book with commentary by Harvey Silverglate, who according to Thomas has “represented numerous students in disputes with the Harvard University administration over violations of their free-speech rights.” But in a book where virtually all the other commentary are made either by Thomas or by HLS professors and students, Silverglate’s ubiquitous presence seems out of place—unless he is understood as a vehicle for Thomas’ own commentary.

Thomas also shies away from a substantive debate about the merits of permitting free speech on campuses. He is a free speech absolutist, and comes down clearly on one side of the debate of whether academic institutions ought to be allowed to limit hate speech on their campuses. But he does not engage much with the philosophical issues at play. He finds absurdity in the actions of his ideological opponents, and is probably right on that point, but he does not actually argue why we should all be free speech absolutists as he is. Because he only asserts this as a given and does not back it up with much if any persuasive force, he won’t change many minds with his book. If you disagree with Thomas going in, you’ll likely feel the same way all 198 pages later.

But everyone who approaches the book with an open mind—even those who are sympathetic to campus bans on hate speech—will come away feeling uneasy at the intimidation tactics he attributes to some law school students and professors. It is difficult not to feel outraged and disappointed upon hearing, for example, how Rosenberg was removed from his class for his comment that “the blacks have contributed nothing to torts”—clearly within the context of referring to black Crits. Rosenberg’s comments about his own case may be applied broadly to the climate that ruled HLS circa 2002—and probably still rules there today: “For a faculty member to be strongly criticized—and even threatened with formal sanctions—for making critical remarks about a genre of scholarship in class strikes at the very heart of academic freedom.”

As it currently stands, there is already an alarming paucity of academic diversity at HLS. Thomas reports that in 2003, there were no professors at HLS who adhere to the conservative “originalist” interpretation of the Constitution, despite the fact that it is the philosophy of choice of many leading jurists, including Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas. Conservative students report being routinely hissed and booed after making comments in class.

Now, Andrew Peyton Thomas argues, the far left is attempting to silence even the moderate left. Though one may disagree with his opinions, the facts he provides do not lie—and they should unsettle us all. After reading the book, one cannot help but agree that academic freedom at HLS is under attack—and that its diminishing ranks of defenders are losing the battle.

—Staff writer William C. Marra can be reached at wmarra@fas.harvard.edu.


Go back to original article.
Copyright © 2005, The Harvard Crimson Inc. All rights reserved.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 30, 2005, 05:43:57 AM
Just in case some might think the socratic method and rude profs are limited to Howard. I wonder if these methods have detered folks from attending Harvard, like it seems to have done to Howard?
The Harvard Crimson
   Originally published on Monday, June 27, 2005 in the News section of The Harvard Crimson.

BOOKENDS: What Kiwi Taught Us About HLS
By WILLIAM C. MARRA
Crimson Staff Writer

In The People vs. Harvard Law, Andrew Peyton Thomas puts his alma mater on trial for sacrificing free speech on its campus in the name of political correctness. His readers shouldn’t be surprised if they come away from the book with a guilty verdict.

Thomas’ argument is that since the late 1970s the Harvard Law School (HLS) campus has been taken over by far-left “Crits,” or followers of the Critical Legal Studies school of thought. As “postmodernism [applied] to law,” Critical Legal Studies aims to deconstruct the biases inherent in the legal system.

But according to Thomas, the movement’s alternative practices, spurning the traditional rigors of scholarship, have only “sapped the intellectual regimen” of HLS. Crit professors have come to dominate intellectual life on the school’s campus—and have tried, with great success, to see their brand of radical theory seep into the curriculum and influence the next generation of lawyers. Most perniciously, Crits have attempted to remake society through laws, to purge society of all its biases—racial, gender, or otherwise. They try to do this through censorship of all dissenting views, Thomas argues, and the results are disastrous.

Thomas frames his book around a series of events that rocked the HLS campus in 2002. The free speech crisis began when a 16-year old first-year law student—a prodigy named Kiwi Camara— submitted class notes to a school website that included the epithet “nig” as an abbreviation for African Americans. After one student complained, another student sent an anonymous e-mail to many members of the freshman class in which he complained about the response of African Americans to Camara’s email, adding that “I have actually begun using the word ‘n-word’ more often than before the incident.”

Two days later, Professor Charles R. Nesson ’60 went into another instructor’s class and revealed the anonymous e-mailer to be first-year law student Matthias Scholl (who had given Nesson permission to disclose his identity). Nesson proposed that the class hold a mock trial of Scholl. For that proposal, Nesson would eventually be asked by a dean to stop teaching his freshman torts class.

These events occurred within a month of an incident in Professor David Rosenberg’s first-year torts class in which the often-blunt professor stated that “Feminists, Marxists, and the blacks have contributed nothing to torts.” According to a later clarification, Rosenberg was referring to Feminist, Marxist, and black Crits, but this made no difference. In the already-tense climate of HLS, his comments did not go unpunished. Administrators would later declare attendance of Rosenberg’s course to be optional, effectively repudiating the Socratic method—HLS’s rigorous method of questioning students—for that course.

These incidents led a black student group to call for a speech code on campus. Thomas’ book follows HLS through the next three tumultuous years, during which time a speech code was a very real possibility. But he does not stick religiously to the plot: as Thomas introduces different professors and administrators, he often gives extensive histories of their legal and political careers. It is in these biographical sketches that he is harshest.

Most notably, Climenko Professor Charles J. Ogletree comes across as a man more interested in furthering his chances of being appointed to the Supreme Court than in performing genuine academic work. And former HLS Dean Robert C. Clark is dubbed “Boneless Bob,” an unprincipled administrator who otherwise believes in free speech but was cowed into submission by the Crits.

It quickly becomes clear that what Thomas dislikes most is a lack of principles, a “bonelessness” that he detects in both Ogletree and Clark. Neither are willing to stand for principles, he contends—only for power. To Thomas, this is worse than being a Crit. Crits and other far-left advocates will always exist and can be expected to advocate loudly for their cause. They even will continue to throw around accusations of racism against those who show insufficient support for affirmative action, in order to intimidate others to go along with their goals. Thomas argues it is the obligation of those who disagree with the Crits to stand up in the face of their accusations. He suggests that Clark and others, however, decided to go along with the charade rather than stick up for what they might otherwise believe is right. According to Thomas, the collective experiences of Nesson and Rosenberg taught other professors that dissent from Crit theory would be met with loud, potentially career-ending protests. Too many professors began to follow the route of least intellectual resistance, and the result was the intellectual suicide of America’s oldest and arguably most prestigious law school.

In this light, it becomes clear why Professor Alan Dershowitz is the unlikely hero of the book. A steadfast free speech advocate, he stands up against the calls for a speech code, arguing convincingly that they are both impractical and oppressive. A man who shares Thomas’ free speech absolutism, Dershowitz becomes the author’s archetype for how all left-but-not-far-left professors should have responded to the crisis.

Because the book has so much of an ideological slant—it is more Sean Hannity than Bob Woodward—the reader may find himself questioning whether Thomas gives a complete account of what happened at HLS in 2002. He certainly does not present his readers with some of the stronger arguments for limiting certain racist speech on campus. Thomas uses a clever tact throughout the book to preserve as much of an appearance of impartiality as possible: rather than voicing his own opinion, he peppers his book with commentary by Harvey Silverglate, who according to Thomas has “represented numerous students in disputes with the Harvard University administration over violations of their free-speech rights.” But in a book where virtually all the other commentary are made either by Thomas or by HLS professors and students, Silverglate’s ubiquitous presence seems out of place—unless he is understood as a vehicle for Thomas’ own commentary.

Thomas also shies away from a substantive debate about the merits of permitting free speech on campuses. He is a free speech absolutist, and comes down clearly on one side of the debate of whether academic institutions ought to be allowed to limit hate speech on their campuses. But he does not engage much with the philosophical issues at play. He finds absurdity in the actions of his ideological opponents, and is probably right on that point, but he does not actually argue why we should all be free speech absolutists as he is. Because he only asserts this as a given and does not back it up with much if any persuasive force, he won’t change many minds with his book. If you disagree with Thomas going in, you’ll likely feel the same way all 198 pages later.

But everyone who approaches the book with an open mind—even those who are sympathetic to campus bans on hate speech—will come away feeling uneasy at the intimidation tactics he attributes to some law school students and professors. It is difficult not to feel outraged and disappointed upon hearing, for example, how Rosenberg was removed from his class for his comment that “the blacks have contributed nothing to torts”—clearly within the context of referring to black Crits. Rosenberg’s comments about his own case may be applied broadly to the climate that ruled HLS circa 2002—and probably still rules there today: “For a faculty member to be strongly criticized—and even threatened with formal sanctions—for making critical remarks about a genre of scholarship in class strikes at the very heart of academic freedom.”

As it currently stands, there is already an alarming paucity of academic diversity at HLS. Thomas reports that in 2003, there were no professors at HLS who adhere to the conservative “originalist” interpretation of the Constitution, despite the fact that it is the philosophy of choice of many leading jurists, including Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas. Conservative students report being routinely hissed and booed after making comments in class.

Now, Andrew Peyton Thomas argues, the far left is attempting to silence even the moderate left. Though one may disagree with his opinions, the facts he provides do not lie—and they should unsettle us all. After reading the book, one cannot help but agree that academic freedom at HLS is under attack—and that its diminishing ranks of defenders are losing the battle.

—Staff writer William C. Marra can be reached at wmarra@fas.harvard.edu.


Go back to original article.
Copyright © 2005, The Harvard Crimson Inc. All rights reserved.


Look I'm all for free speech.  So the next time my professor refers to the coons, the spics, and the wops.  I'm just going to give him a big ole smile.  You sure is right, Massa Jim.  You tell it.   ::)
the 16year old 'prodigy'  ::) should have gotten jumped--I bet Scholl wouldn't be using the n-word as much.  Sh*t, folks should have jumped him too.  I know all you Haaahvard negroes don't like to get your hands dirty, but you know you have a cousin Rae Rae.  Have him take care of that.  "n-word what?" pow.  :o
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on June 30, 2005, 07:37:53 AM
wow :o.. a man started a post with First of All.. did you do a finger snap and eye roll too? :D

i kid
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: jdohno on June 30, 2005, 08:26:45 AM
Good post Monimone.

Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on June 30, 2005, 09:02:37 AM
HUSL2007,
First of all, I wasn't knocking Howard.  If thats the place for you then so be it.  If you like the pep rally environment then so be it.  But you won't have a pep rally when you are in a law firm.  Howard may put out good numbers in well known law firms but that doesn't make them any better than a regional school.  Do you honestly think that Howard can place better in Florida than Stetson, I think not.  And yes UF is a national school and no law school in the nation places better in Florida than UF.  That's why its called a Tier 1 law school.  And it costs me just 8,000.  And I see where every penny of it goes.  Get off of it! 

The money that you would supposedly make and the firms that you would supposedly interview at are nothing but statistical probabilities.  P-R-O-B-A-B-I-L-I-T-I-E-S.  Meaning you probably will or you probably won't.  The fact is, its all dependent on the individual person.  Because of my work ethic and intellect I could possibly have a shot at even more top firms with greater compensation.  I hope that is not your only reason for attending.  Nor should it be anyones for any law school.  If you think that the amount of money that you will make at a top firm will demonstrate how well Howard has prepared you for the profession, you are sadly mistakened.  If you think that working at a top firm makes you any better than the next you are sadly mistakened and will be a detriment to the legal professsion.  Its about helping people that need help not about putting as much money in your pocket as possible!!!  After a year of law school you would think that you would know that.  Especially at HUSL where they produce "Social Engineers."  The sooner you realize that the sooner you will truly become an advocate for the people's interests. 

As far as Prof. whats her name, I refuse to pay her salary so that she may demoralize me in front of my peers.  Its one thing to question my prepartion but to result to sheer personal humiliation, that's unnecessary.  If anything Howard should teach their students humility and etiquitte within the profession.  I sat in on a class at the University of Miami and that professor was very professional and humble.  A student didn't know the answer and he didn't make them feel as if they don't belong, he moved on.  That's the real world.  No one's going to hold your hand and criticize you until you get it right when you have inaccuracies on a document that you drafted for a client.  That client is going to move on.  That's law school in a professional way. And yes, I know what the socratic method is.  That's something that we learned right here at UF in undergrad.  Don't think that I am adverse to that type of class atmosphere.  I thrive in it.   

Howard is a very disorganized institution.  I have heard time and time again from Howard students that the financial aid office does things on their time.  Do you honestly think that I will risk being evicted because of the lack of professionalism of the financial aid office, nope.  At UF my financial aid is already set, ELECTRONICALLY.  It will be directly deposited into my account during the first week of class.  All of it.  The dean of admissions personally called me to convince me to attend UF.  Did Howard do that, no.  They acted as if they did me a favor by admitting me.  I'd like to think we did each other favor had I accepted.  In the past two years or so Howard has not gotten one UF undergrad student, why is that?  Why do we all seem to turn down the offer?  I'm glad that you are content with the decision that you have made but I would'nt have.   And I know another girl who went to FSU who chose Nova's Shephard Law Center over Howard.  That's serious!!!  The fact that my moma even was disgusted with the conduct, that says a lot to me.  My dad went to Morehouse and was not that impressed as well.  Instead of attacking me, how about you take these complaints to your dean of admission so that he may review the way your open house is conducted.  The sooner HUSL confronts these issues the sooner it will be able better its image because in my opinion, it fell far short of what I expected lady!

P.S. You seem to make a lot of assumptions (about 4).  One of which is that I am a woman, I'm man baby.  As budding legal professional you would think that you would conduct some research in the form of questions before you assume attributes.  Maybe you should have been at the open house so that you could assist me in better understanding the better qualities of HUSL!!!  And I still don't know where the 16,000 goes.  Firm connections are nothing but networking that doesn't take much of monetary investment to conduct.  If there are serious financial transactions occuring in this regard I'm sure that the ABA would be interested in hearing more.  Just keepin' it real flawda style!!!  On a positive note there are some beautiful women at HUSL and I am sure that you are one of them. 

Again, thanks for your response.  I would like to first apologize for not being able to post a lengthy reply to your response.  However, I would like to wish you the best at UF.  I would like to offer you some advice about law school...

Law school is a very challenging process...
It is a process of breaking down and rebuilding, it would shape your thinking, attitude and perspective on numerous issues.  Frankly I don't care if you are a brother or sister (see earlier post) because no matter what law school you attend you will be challenged and you will be put down.  Law professors are extremely intelligent and would force you to think on another level. 

I want to quickly comment on application, determination and stamina. 

To make it in law school you have to apply your butt firmly to a chair for hours and hours.  Some would disagree, but unless you are that special child that could party every week from Thursday - Sunday and get straight A's I would suggest that you use the application method suggested above. 

Determination - At every law school the exams are curved.  Please remain determined to graduate when you recognized that you may now be an average student.  I have classmates that graduated from their respective universities at the top of the class... some have now become average students.  I want you to put your best foot forward. 

Stamina - Law school is not a sprint it is a marathon... pace is everything.  Don't get burnt out your first semester.  Again with application and determination you will graduate. 

The reason for my advice is based on the numbers...
There are just not enough black attys.  I want you to make it through law school.. whether at Howard or UF.

I would advice that you ask fellow black students what % of the class you have to be in to interview with the big firms.  Because, going to UF does not grant you an interview... just like going to Howard would not grant me an interview.  But I would tell you this, law school will humble a lot of people.  I just want you to remain focus on your goals and if you ever need some advice on writing law examinations, studying, outlining etc feel free to send me a note.

I wish you the best.  And I still remain committed to the fact that Howard University School of Law is the place to be. 

Peace
HUSL2007
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on June 30, 2005, 10:00:53 AM
It ain't even like that Blk_Reign ;D
Thank you for your advice HUSL2007.  Its very helpful! :)
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on June 30, 2005, 10:04:56 AM
 :D :D... i'm glad that u could take the joke

good luck @ UF

It ain't even like that Blk_Reign ;D

Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 30, 2005, 10:28:07 AM
Everyone that ends up at the bottom of the class is not a slacker.  As you said, there is a curve and sometimes people end up at the bottom of the curve for other reasons and not just because they are a slacker.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on June 30, 2005, 10:35:58 AM
nothing like a 3.1 curve ;)
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 30, 2005, 10:39:59 AM
They have gone up now, it is like a 3.3 curve.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on June 30, 2005, 11:35:44 AM
damn really??


They have gone up now, it is like a 3.3 curve.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: HUSL2007 on June 30, 2005, 11:42:48 AM
Everyone that ends up at the bottom of the class is not a slacker.  As you said, there is a curve and sometimes people end up at the bottom of the curve for other reasons and not just because they are a slacker.

Note:  I said that there are slackers in everyclass class... and the curve will weed them (the SLACKERS) out.  I never said that everyone at the bottom of the class would be a slacker.  But clearly, if you failed to prepare, then prepare to fail.

Respectfully submitted,

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 30, 2005, 12:01:18 PM
Yeah, they have gone to a B+ curve.

damn really??


They have gone up now, it is like a 3.3 curve.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 30, 2005, 12:10:13 PM
Everyone that ends up at the bottom of the class is not a slacker.  As you said, there is a curve and sometimes people end up at the bottom of the curve for other reasons and not just because they are a slacker.

Note:  I said that there are slackers in everyclass class... and the curve will weed them (the SLACKERS) out.  I never said that everyone at the bottom of the class would be a slacker.  But clearly, if you failed to prepare, then prepare to fail.

Respectfully submitted,

HUSL2007

True, but I would say generally you are right.  Although there are some people who are slackers and do very well and some people who study hard and do very badly.  But for the most part, as with anything in life, if you are going to do YOUR best, you need to put in the work. 
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on June 30, 2005, 01:58:34 PM
HUSL2007,
Were you at the Open House in March?
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: 1styearlawstudent on June 30, 2005, 07:44:48 PM
pinkgeeta, I will be attending NCCU in the fall. I visited the campus, they just finished renovating the law school so the facilities appear very nice. I never visited UM but UM is a much larger school in a much larger city. When you are talking about career placement at any school (outside of your top schools where firms will recruit more heavily) then I think you have to plan on creating opportunities for yourself. UM places more people per year in big law firms. But that is mostly the students ranked in the top 10% of their class. Another area of consideration is that NCCU is more focused on training litigators than transactional attorneys. But at NCCU you also have the opportunity to enroll in some great classes at Duke and UNC-Chapel Hill through the consortium to supplement your transactional coursework. If you establish residency in NC you can also pay 3600 in tuition at NCCU (if you decide to stay) for years 2 and 3.  Both schools have very competent faculty so that is not really an issue from my prespective.  Also NCCU would have a larger percentage of african-american students if thats important.  These would be some of facts I would use to gauge where I wanted to go. Just understand that regardless of the school it will be mostly up to you if you land a big law job because you are not at a top 10 school where firms are more likely to recruit you.  I think people get caught up in the ranking game too much when in reality, outside of the top schools, very few law schools will place a majority of their graduates at big law firms.  I would make an inventory of what is most important to you and just see what school offers the most opportunities for you personaly. And if at all possible visit both schools to see where you would prefer to study if you end up there for three years. Also, if you are a top student who would likely be in the running for a biglaw job then you will also be in the running for transfering to a law school that places a higher percentage of its class in biglaw jobs. That's my 4 or 5 cents.       
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: GJU1003 on June 30, 2005, 08:36:59 PM
Thanks everyone for the feedback on Howard I just sent in my deposit today so I will be a member of the class of 2008. It was a hard decision but what I felt was best seeing as I do not think I want to be so confined to working in Ohio had I gone to OSU. Hey HUSL2007 any tips on good areas to live. I could use any tips seeing as I have a month before I move to DC. Thanks
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: CaliToD.C. on June 30, 2005, 09:03:26 PM
Thanks everyone for the feedback on Howard I just sent in my deposit today so I will be a member of the class of 2008. It was a hard decision but what I felt was best seeing as I do not think I want to be so confined to working in Ohio had I gone to OSU. Hey HUSL2007 any tips on good areas to live. I could use any tips seeing as I have a month before I move to DC. Thanks

Congratulations! Look forward to seeing you next semester!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 01, 2005, 01:43:40 AM
Thanks everyone for the feedback on Howard I just sent in my deposit today so I will be a member of the class of 2008. It was a hard decision but what I felt was best seeing as I do not think I want to be so confined to working in Ohio had I gone to OSU. Hey HUSL2007 any tips on good areas to live. I could use any tips seeing as I have a month before I move to DC. Thanks

Congrats on your decision!!!!! :) :) :)
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 06:35:30 AM
I'm from Florida so the up north atmosphere for me was not very appealing.  Howard seemed to have very snotty people running their operation.  The facilities are a far cry away from state of the art.  They did just build a new library, which is very nice, but there classrooms were horrible.  No Wifi, No laptop connections, dim lighting, creeky floors, an old AME Church smell to it.  Those are all reasons why I chose not to attend.  I just did not see where my 16000 tuition would have been going.  Dean McGahee, the dean of admissions was way too young.  He was far too friendly with the women and seemed to joke around a little too much for me.  The environment at the law school seemed to be very pep rally like.  It seemed too good to be true.  The people there seemed not to be real.  We sat in on a mock class and the professor came off as very arrogant.  Instead of being welcoming she demoralized anyone who tried to answer her questions.  I would have been paying too much money for someone to be putting me down.  My parents went with me to visit Howard and my mom was very disappointed.  The only thing that Howard had that was appealing to me was its legacy.  Aside from that, Howard really hasn't done much, in my opinion.  They were too focused on civil rights and litigation. 
I wanted a law school that offered a broad basis of legal studies. I have visited FSU, UMiami, and UF and felt very welcomed and loved the facilities.  They all were very professional and produce excellent attorneys that are well prepared for the legal profession.  Oh yeah, another thing was the dean of admissions kept giving us reasons why Howard might not be the place for us.  I flew 1000 miles spent nearly 1000 dollars to hear that.  No.  He alone convinced me not to attend. 

P.S.  My mom did not attend college and my dad is a Morehouse Grad so I have nothing against HBCUs. 

I went to UF and you know that the Dean Admissions there isn't personable at all. Most of the folks in Student Affairs, except for Norma and Dean Sasnett aren't big personalities.  Don't base your decision to go a school on that.  I liked my experience at Florida, despite some of the "racial" problems that occurred during my 3rd year. I still don't like the fact that the minority numbers have dropped so low due to no MPLE and the school still doesn't have enough minority professors given the minority population at the law school. I am just saying every school has their issues...you know....(UF and career services, we won't even speak of..were they good when you were there LP????)
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 06:38:10 AM
Most of the professors that teach first years are known for humilation.....that's at most schools. Please don't think that's unique to HU.....because I can name about 10 at my alma mater that were jerks.  But I think key is to research and go where you feel most comfortable.  Talk to folks on the campus there.  If they are unhappy (and they have solid complaints) take that as a sign.
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: pinkgeeta on July 01, 2005, 08:04:53 AM
Thanks all for the advice. I have decided on NCCU Law.

1styearlawstudent - let's talk!

pinkgeeta
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 01, 2005, 08:19:44 AM
HUSL2007,
Were you at the Open House in March?

Yes I was at the open house in March. 
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: jdohno on July 01, 2005, 08:27:56 AM
Well good luck to you. I hope you have a successful first year.

Thanks all for the advice. I have decided on NCCU Law.

1styearlawstudent - let's talk!

pinkgeeta
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 01, 2005, 08:46:23 AM
Thanks all for the advice. I have decided on NCCU Law.

1styearlawstudent - let's talk!

pinkgeeta

Congrats and best of luck to you.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 01, 2005, 08:48:23 AM
I'm from Florida so the up north atmosphere for me was not very appealing.  Howard seemed to have very snotty people running their operation.  The facilities are a far cry away from state of the art.  They did just build a new library, which is very nice, but there classrooms were horrible.  No Wifi, No laptop connections, dim lighting, creeky floors, an old AME Church smell to it.  Those are all reasons why I chose not to attend.  I just did not see where my 16000 tuition would have been going.  Dean McGahee, the dean of admissions was way too young.  He was far too friendly with the women and seemed to joke around a little too much for me.  The environment at the law school seemed to be very pep rally like.  It seemed too good to be true.  The people there seemed not to be real.  We sat in on a mock class and the professor came off as very arrogant.  Instead of being welcoming she demoralized anyone who tried to answer her questions.  I would have been paying too much money for someone to be putting me down.  My parents went with me to visit Howard and my mom was very disappointed.  The only thing that Howard had that was appealing to me was its legacy.  Aside from that, Howard really hasn't done much, in my opinion.  They were too focused on civil rights and litigation. 
I wanted a law school that offered a broad basis of legal studies. I have visited FSU, UMiami, and UF and felt very welcomed and loved the facilities.  They all were very professional and produce excellent attorneys that are well prepared for the legal profession.  Oh yeah, another thing was the dean of admissions kept giving us reasons why Howard might not be the place for us.  I flew 1000 miles spent nearly 1000 dollars to hear that.  No.  He alone convinced me not to attend. 

P.S.  My mom did not attend college and my dad is a Morehouse Grad so I have nothing against HBCUs. 

I went to UF and you know that the Dean Admissions there isn't personable at all. Most of the folks in Student Affairs, except for Norma and Dean Sasnett aren't big personalities.  Don't base your decision to go a school on that.  I liked my experience at Florida, despite some of the "racial" problems that occurred during my 3rd year. I still don't like the fact that the minority numbers have dropped so low due to no MPLE and the school still doesn't have enough minority professors given the minority population at the law school. I am just saying every school has their issues...you know....(UF and career services, we won't even speak of..were they good when you were there LP????)

Nope, they usually only catered to the top 10% when I was there and that left everyone else to fend for themselves.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 01, 2005, 08:50:52 AM
Most of the professors that teach first years are known for humilation.....that's at most schools. Please don't think that's unique to HU.....because I can name about 10 at my alma mater that were jerks.  But I think key is to research and go where you feel most comfortable.  Talk to folks on the campus there.  If they are unhappy (and they have solid complaints) take that as a sign.

Joe Little was big on humiliation as was Jones (is he still there?), Quarles (I know he aint), Jacobs, and Hurst (he was nice).  Hmmmmm, who else tought first year.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 01, 2005, 08:51:43 AM
man.. i'll never forget my first day of class in Torts.. my professor said to us..

How does it feel to be average? I know you didn't think that you were the only one to graduate at the top 5-10% of your class did you?
 

:D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Bluenine on July 01, 2005, 08:56:49 AM
HUSL2007,
First of all, I wasn't knocking Howard.  If thats the place for you then so be it.  If you like the pep rally environment then so be it.  But you won't have a pep rally when you are in a law firm.  Howard may put out good numbers in well known law firms but that doesn't make them any better than a regional school.  Do you honestly think that Howard can place better in Florida than Stetson, I think not.  And yes UF is a national school and no law school in the nation places better in Florida than UF.  That's why its called a Tier 1 law school.  And it costs me just 8,000.  And I see where every penny of it goes.  Get off of it! 

The money that you would supposedly make and the firms that you would supposedly interview at are nothing but statistical probabilities.  P-R-O-B-A-B-I-L-I-T-I-E-S.  Meaning you probably will or you probably won't.  The fact is, its all dependent on the individual person.  Because of my work ethic and intellect I could possibly have a shot at even more top firms with greater compensation.  I hope that is not your only reason for attending.  Nor should it be anyones for any law school.  If you think that the amount of money that you will make at a top firm will demonstrate how well Howard has prepared you for the profession, you are sadly mistakened.  If you think that working at a top firm makes you any better than the next you are sadly mistakened and will be a detriment to the legal professsion.  Its about helping people that need help not about putting as much money in your pocket as possible!!!  After a year of law school you would think that you would know that.  Especially at HUSL where they produce "Social Engineers."  The sooner you realize that the sooner you will truly become an advocate for the people's interests. 

As far as Prof. whats her name, I refuse to pay her salary so that she may demoralize me in front of my peers.  Its one thing to question my prepartion but to result to sheer personal humiliation, that's unnecessary.  If anything Howard should teach their students humility and etiquitte within the profession.  I sat in on a class at the University of Miami and that professor was very professional and humble.  A student didn't know the answer and he didn't make them feel as if they don't belong, he moved on.  That's the real world.  No one's going to hold your hand and criticize you until you get it right when you have inaccuracies on a document that you drafted for a client.  That client is going to move on.  That's law school in a professional way. And yes, I know what the socratic method is.  That's something that we learned right here at UF in undergrad.  Don't think that I am adverse to that type of class atmosphere.  I thrive in it.   

Howard is a very disorganized institution.  I have heard time and time again from Howard students that the financial aid office does things on their time.  Do you honestly think that I will risk being evicted because of the lack of professionalism of the financial aid office, nope.  At UF my financial aid is already set, ELECTRONICALLY.  It will be directly deposited into my account during the first week of class.  All of it.  The dean of admissions personally called me to convince me to attend UF.  Did Howard do that, no.  They acted as if they did me a favor by admitting me.  I'd like to think we did each other favor had I accepted.  In the past two years or so Howard has not gotten one UF undergrad student, why is that?  Why do we all seem to turn down the offer?  I'm glad that you are content with the decision that you have made but I would'nt have.   And I know another girl who went to FSU who chose Nova's Shephard Law Center over Howard.  That's serious!!!  The fact that my moma even was disgusted with the conduct, that says a lot to me.  My dad went to Morehouse and was not that impressed as well.  Instead of attacking me, how about you take these complaints to your dean of admission so that he may review the way your open house is conducted.  The sooner HUSL confronts these issues the sooner it will be able better its image because in my opinion, it fell far short of what I expected lady!

P.S. You seem to make a lot of assumptions (about 4).  One of which is that I am a woman, I'm man baby.  As budding legal professional you would think that you would conduct some research in the form of questions before you assume attributes.  Maybe you should have been at the open house so that you could assist me in better understanding the better qualities of HUSL!!!  And I still don't know where the 16,000 goes.  Firm connections are nothing but networking that doesn't take much of monetary investment to conduct.  If there are serious financial transactions occuring in this regard I'm sure that the ABA would be interested in hearing more.  Just keepin' it real flawda style!!!  On a positive note there are some beautiful women at HUSL and I am sure that you are one of them. 

  :o There was heat radiating from this post.  Seriously though, you don't have to justify your decision.  There are going to be people that agree and those who will not.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 01, 2005, 09:49:41 AM
Blue.. u going to HU or GW? i was trying to remember your decision the other day
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 11:26:09 AM
Law school grading is very subjective, there's often little difference between an A and C or D answer depending on the professor. There's no such thing as blind grading (for real). So you really can't say someone is a slacker when  you are dealing with a subjective grading process. I knew people that studied really hard and just were unable to do well in certain classes.  All grades are a blessing indeed.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 01, 2005, 11:27:07 AM
Law school grading is very subjective, there's often little difference between an A and C or D answer depending on the professor. There's no such thing as blind grading (for real). So you really can't say someone is a slacker when  you are dealing with a subjective grading process. I knew people that studied really hard and just were unable to do well in certain classes.  All grades are a blessing indeed.

I agree!!
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 01, 2005, 12:49:25 PM
Law school grading is very subjective, there's often little difference between an A and C or D answer depending on the professor. There's no such thing as blind grading (for real). So you really can't say someone is a slacker when  you are dealing with a subjective grading process. I knew people that studied really hard and just were unable to do well in certain classes.  All grades are a blessing indeed.

Soror, I repectfully dissent.

I believe that many student study hard and not smart.  I sat down with my mentor (extremely successful) before my second semester started and she basically brief me on what I needed to do and NOT do.  I followed her suggestions still putting my twist on my preparation.  Just before exam crunch time started, I met with her again.. and she literally taught me in 1 hr how to write a law school examination and the level of preparation required.

For example... State the Rule of Law, Explain the terms of art (briefly) and finally State the Policy behind the rule (SWEET!)  all I can say is... I am 100% sure I am in the top 25% and possibly even closer to the top... my grades... following her method... were superior... so say the least...

And while grading is subjective, I think that smart preparation and lots of rest would be the key to a great 1st year...  Having a mentor (a great mentor) is instrumental to success in the first year. 

I love my mentor like a sister... she is very smart and I look forward to working with her in a class we have together next semester.

Again, I respectfully dissent

HUSL
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 01, 2005, 01:00:52 PM
Law school grading is very subjective, there's often little difference between an A and C or D answer depending on the professor. There's no such thing as blind grading (for real). So you really can't say someone is a slacker when  you are dealing with a subjective grading process. I knew people that studied really hard and just were unable to do well in certain classes.  All grades are a blessing indeed.

Soror, I repectfully dissent.

I believe that many student study hard and not smart.  I sat down with my mentor (extremely successful) before my second semester started and she basically brief me on what I needed to do and NOT do.  I followed her suggestions still putting my twist on my preparation.  Just before exam crunch time started, I met with her again.. and she literally taught me in 1 hr how to write a law school examination and the level of preparation required.

For example... State the Rule of Law, Explain the terms of art (briefly) and finally State the Policy behind the rule (SWEET!)  all I can say is... I am 100% sure I am in the top 25% and possibly even closer to the top... my grades... following her method... were superior... so say the least...

And while grading is subjective, I think that smart preparation and lots of rest would be the key to a great 1st year...  Having a mentor (a great mentor) is instrumental to success in the first year. 

I love my mentor like a sister... she is very smart and I look forward to working with her in a class we have together next semester.

Again, I respectfully dissent

HUSL

I respectfully will wait til you get screwed over by a professor who was having a bad morning when he graded your paper and gave you a B while your friend who borrowed your notes and spent an hour on the same assignment which she described as the worst paper of her life gets an A- to comment.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 01, 2005, 01:15:17 PM
Preach on sister!!!!! 
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: blk_reign on July 01, 2005, 01:18:27 PM
LP aren't you glad u're on the other side of this now?  :D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Bluenine on July 01, 2005, 01:30:37 PM
Blue.. u going to HU or GW? i was trying to remember your decision the other day

Let's just say CitiAssist just approved my loans... ;D

and it's final, I already sent them that $800 deposit.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 01, 2005, 02:23:41 PM
CONGRATS.. you know whatever u need.. i'll help u out the best that i can...have u found an apt yet?



Blue.. u going to HU or GW? i was trying to remember your decision the other day

Let's just say CitiAssist just approved my loans... ;D

and it's final, I already sent them that $800 deposit.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on July 01, 2005, 03:09:37 PM
HUSL2007,
I'm trying to figure out if I remember you.  There were three girls that led my group two were petite with one with a red shirt the other with a white shirt.  The other had short hair and a was a single mother.  Did you lead a group with two other girls? 
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 01, 2005, 03:12:50 PM
HUSL2007,
I'm trying to figure out if I remember you.  There were three girls that led my group two were petite with one with a red shirt the other with a white shirt.  The other had short hair and a was a single mother.  Did you lead a group with two other girls? 

I did not lead your group... and frankly if I did you would have accepted Howard (just kidding).  I did speak at some point (I think).
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 01, 2005, 03:16:33 PM

 :D :D :D

HUSL2007,
I'm trying to figure out if I remember you.  There were three girls that led my group two were petite with one with a red shirt the other with a white shirt.  The other had short hair and a was a single mother.  Did you lead a group with two other girls? 

I did not lead your group... and frankly if I did you would have accepted Howard (just kidding).  I did speak at some point (I think).

Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 01, 2005, 03:24:52 PM
Moni, you were in my group.  It's so funny how different your impressions were. 

I thought Prof. Broussard was excellent.  I loved how hard she was - and actually, I know that she was going easy us.  I actually met her outside of class before I ever saw her teach.  She is one of those profs that will tear you a new one, then it will be all love after it's all over.  I am hoping I am in her class. 


HUSL2007,
I'm trying to figure out if I remember you.  There were three girls that led my group two were petite with one with a red shirt the other with a white shirt.  The other had short hair and a was a single mother.  Did you lead a group with two other girls? 
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 01, 2005, 03:30:24 PM
Moni, you were in my group.  It's so funny how different your impressions were. 

I thought Prof. Broussard was excellent.  I loved how hard she was - and actually, I know that she was going easy us.  I actually met her outside of class before I ever saw her teach.  She is one of those profs that will tear you a new one, then it will be all love after it's all over.  I am hoping I am in her class. 


HUSL2007,
I'm trying to figure out if I remember you.  There were three girls that led my group two were petite with one with a red shirt the other with a white shirt.  The other had short hair and a was a single mother.  Did you lead a group with two other girls? 

As much as this would hurt. Prof. Broussard is no longer at Howard.  And you are right and based on your attitude will most likely do well.  Prof. Broussard will tear you down and by the time you are out of her class you would be an excellent writer! 

None the less... there are many challenging professors at Howard... If you are attending in the fall... congrats and best of luck.. hopefully I will meet you early in the Fall. 

Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on July 01, 2005, 03:30:42 PM
 :D That is strange Roxie.  It could be a northern v. southern thing.  Different cultures I guess.  I wish you much success.  HUSL 2007 I'm sure that I probably would have if you were leading my group.  
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 06:43:47 PM
Most of the professors that teach first years are known for humilation.....that's at most schools. Please don't think that's unique to HU.....because I can name about 10 at my alma mater that were jerks.  But I think key is to research and go where you feel most comfortable.  Talk to folks on the campus there.  If they are unhappy (and they have solid complaints) take that as a sign.

Joe Little was big on humiliation as was Jones (is he still there?), Quarles (I know he aint), Jacobs, and Hurst (he was nice).  Hmmmmm, who else tought first year.

Little still there humilating folks; Malavet; Twitchell; Baldwin (but he's soo cool); Davis; Moffatt (big time arse); Noah (you know about him right LP..lol)....
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 06:52:14 PM
HU

First, greetings Soror...didn't know you were AKA.   I have seen so many folks screwed over by professors who worked their butts off in classes. I've seen professors who I am sure were racist give minority students bad grades. Now that I've been out of law school almost 5 years, I look back and think that I probably did too much work (and I wasn't one of those studying 60 hour a week folks). Law school is a system, once you learn to work it, you can be successful. But everyone runs into that one professor that screws you over.  As soft as the market is for lawyers now, I wonder how much grades really play. I know people that had excellent grades that had a hard time finding a job. Personality plays a part too.

Perhaps at HU, there's a more familial vibe, maybe professors wanted to see you suceed. But at Florida, we had professors I am sure wanted to see folks fail.  There was one professor that said blacks didn't do as well because we go to "inferior" undergraduate institutions....

But I'm so glad I am finished with law school...I think they made it really harder than it had to be....on the real. I think I studied more for the bar than I did in law school...in fact I know I did. But I learned quickly to study smarter rather than harder in law school.

Grades are subjective. If you are a good writer, you may be able to hide fact that you really don't know the law. Whereas, a person who knows the law cold, but isn't a good writer may not do as well.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GuysinRomearehot on July 01, 2005, 07:01:20 PM
That really scares me, because I go to UG in Florida and have always felt that UF is abit racist and they are on my list of school's to apply to. oh well, I guess I better get used to the racist people in this world.
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: 1styearlawstudent on July 01, 2005, 07:03:14 PM
Congratulations on your decision Pinkgeeta. Feel free to email me anytime. I just put an ap on an apartment this week, would like to hear from some other people about their housing plans as their  career aspirations in general. I look forward to hearing from you.  damonpendleton@hotmail.com




Thanks all for the advice. I have decided on NCCU Law.

1styearlawstudent - let's talk!

pinkgeeta
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GuysinRomearehot on July 01, 2005, 07:07:05 PM
Law school grading is very subjective, there's often little difference between an A and C or D answer depending on the professor. There's no such thing as blind grading (for real). So you really can't say someone is a slacker when  you are dealing with a subjective grading process. I knew people that studied really hard and just were unable to do well in certain classes.  All grades are a blessing indeed.

Soror, I repectfully dissent.

I believe that many student study hard and not smart.  I sat down with my mentor (extremely successful) before my second semester started and she basically brief me on what I needed to do and NOT do.  I followed her suggestions still putting my twist on my preparation.  Just before exam crunch time started, I met with her again.. and she literally taught me in 1 hr how to write a law school examination and the level of preparation required.

For example... State the Rule of Law, Explain the terms of art (briefly) and finally State the Policy behind the rule (SWEET!)  all I can say is... I am 100% sure I am in the top 25% and possibly even closer to the top... my grades... following her method... were superior... so say the least...

And while grading is subjective, I think that smart preparation and lots of rest would be the key to a great 1st year...  Having a mentor (a great mentor) is instrumental to success in the first year. 

I love my mentor like a sister... she is very smart and I look forward to working with her in a class we have together next semester.

Again, I respectfully dissent

HUSL

I respectfully will wait til you get screwed over by a professor who was having a bad morning when he graded your paper and gave you a B while your friend who borrowed your notes and spent an hour on the same assignment which she described as the worst paper of her life gets an A- to comment.

 I know I may be naive but does stuff like this really happen? This is so scary and upsetting. Do you think that most schools have professors that may not like you because you are black, regardless of how intelligent you are?
 I guess I should duh myself, that's everyday life in America isn't it, sigh
 I just don't understand such hatred, why people have to be that way, oh well, I guess I have to deal with it
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 01, 2005, 07:17:02 PM
Please please say it isn't so!!!!! >:( :o :-[  What happened????  PM me if you don't want to say on the board!!!  Damn - I was looking so forward to taking her class!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(




As much as this would hurt. Prof. Broussard is no longer at Howard.  And you are right and based on your attitude will most likely do well.  Prof. Broussard will tear you down and by the time you are out of her class you would be an excellent writer! 

None the less... there are many challenging professors at Howard... If you are attending in the fall... congrats and best of luck.. hopefully I will meet you early in the Fall. 


Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 07:25:07 PM
I am not saying any of this is unique to UF..I LOVED UF....but face it, the profession is a good ole' boys club...there are some professors who don't want to see women, black, white, latina, or asian make it...FSU had some foolish professors there too, there was a mass exodus of female professors maybe 5 years ago...I mean the profession has a bunch of a**holes, why would the professors be any different. You just have to be determined to shake that off and move on. I just think it's naive not to think that things such as cultural and gender bias don't sometimes play a part in grades. I think that there are some professors who aren't going to grade fair and it doesn't matter how hard you work. I guess those are the breaks. Hard work doesn't always equal success. I know people who bust their tails in classes and just didn't do well for whatever reason. So I think it's wrong to call people slackers because they aren't at the top of the class. After you get that first job, grades don't matter so much anymore anyways.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GuysinRomearehot on July 01, 2005, 07:46:30 PM
I'll have to remember this, I thought names weren't on exams though...hmm I guess they have there ways if they just don't like someone!!
 Damn, I have enough probs with racist ug prof's, let alone the unknown ones at LS
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 07:48:16 PM
Well, they aren't...but after the turn in grades they can adjust them, say to give class participation grades etc...so there's really no such thing as blind grading. They tell you that first day of law school.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 07:50:53 PM
I'll have to remember this, I thought names weren't on exams though...hmm I guess they have there ways if they just don't like someone!!
 Damn, I have enough probs with racist ug prof's, let alone the unknown ones at LS

Don't let the "idea" of a few bad apples spoil your law school experience. There are some really great professors too...I mean at UF Rambo, Nunn, Cohen, Wynick, Baldwin, Rush, Dowd, Slobogin etc...they are soo many good professors there that outweigh the bad ones..probably like that at most schools...take the bitter with the sweet and move on...you just can't be naive going in thinking that you have landed in some utopia..
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GuysinRomearehot on July 01, 2005, 08:13:04 PM
lol @ utopia comment... too true
 i have an idyllic image of ls which i don't think will come to fruition, but hopefully I will make the most of my situation.
 Thanks for giving me a heads up
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 01, 2005, 08:31:48 PM
I am not saying any of this is unique to UF..I LOVED UF....but face it, the profession is a good ole' boys club...there are some professors who don't want to see women, black, white, latina, or asian make it...FSU had some foolish professors there too, there was a mass exodus of female professors maybe 5 years ago...I mean the profession has a bunch of a**holes, why would the professors be any different. You just have to be determined to shake that off and move on. I just think it's naive not to think that things such as cultural and gender bias don't sometimes play a part in grades. I think that there are some professors who aren't going to grade fair and it doesn't matter how hard you work. I guess those are the breaks. Hard work doesn't always equal success. I know people who bust their tails in classes and just didn't do well for whatever reason. So I think it's wrong to call people slackers because they aren't at the top of the class. After you get that first job, grades don't matter so much anymore anyways.

I am your soror (I am a girl) LOL! Skee Wee Soror!
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 01, 2005, 08:33:05 PM
I am not saying any of this is unique to UF..I LOVED UF....but face it, the profession is a good ole' boys club...there are some professors who don't want to see women, black, white, latina, or asian make it...FSU had some foolish professors there too, there was a mass exodus of female professors maybe 5 years ago...I mean the profession has a bunch of a**holes, why would the professors be any different. You just have to be determined to shake that off and move on. I just think it's naive not to think that things such as cultural and gender bias don't sometimes play a part in grades. I think that there are some professors who aren't going to grade fair and it doesn't matter how hard you work. I guess those are the breaks. Hard work doesn't always equal success. I know people who bust their tails in classes and just didn't do well for whatever reason. So I think it's wrong to call people slackers because they aren't at the top of the class. After you get that first job, grades don't matter so much anymore anyways.

I am your soror (I am a girl) LOL! Skee Wee Soror!

I don't know why I didn't notice that...let me fix my post...lol..

Beta Alpha Spring 1995...much love....
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 01, 2005, 10:58:07 PM
http://www.4law.net/rating/censura.php?tsid=1&csid=eac7575ef618da9a7a77cf06c5560442&cmd=details&itemid=146&username=Eagle4LE

NCCU
Title: Re: UM law & NCCU law
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 01, 2005, 11:00:18 PM
Thanks all for the advice. I have decided on NCCU Law.

1styearlawstudent - let's talk!

pinkgeeta

Congrats! So, we have TSU, SU, HU, and NCCU represented on BLSD. Nice collection of HBCU 1Ls.  ;D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Bluenine on July 05, 2005, 09:28:50 AM
CONGRATS.. you know whatever u need.. i'll help u out the best that i can...have u found an apt yet?



Blue.. u going to HU or GW? i was trying to remember your decision the other day

Let's just say CitiAssist just approved my loans... ;D

and it's final, I already sent them that $800 deposit.

THANKS!  Yep, I'm going to remain where I currently reside which is in NW.  $1200 for 2 bdrm (split btw the roomie and I), all utilities, cable, and internet.  I think I lucked up if I say so myself!  :D
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 05, 2005, 10:59:45 AM
LP aren't you glad u're on the other side of this now?  :D

Yes I am.  Lord knows I am glad to never have to go through this again. ;)
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Gypsy Green on July 05, 2005, 11:13:16 AM
Hello fellow BLSDers!  I am actually the original poster.  I mentioned this a while back, but in another thread.  Sorry for the confusion.  As for my decision, I ended up paying the deposit at Howard and the 1st and 2nd seat deposits at Georgetown, only because my current employer suggested I send a formal request asking the company to foot the bill.  No word yet and I'm really getting down to the wire on this decision.  As I sit at work today, I really feel that Howard's offering fits better with the path I'd like to take (minimal debt, no commitment to my current employer or pressure to practice IP or Patent law).  

HUSL2007 - thanks for sharing your experiences Soror  ;).  I got soooo excited while reading your post.  Between staying on top of all the logistics of entering law school this fall and working full time, I've hardly given myself a chance to sit back and appreciate the great experience that I'll be embarking on.  Your post is inspiring and brought back the excitement that's gotten lost in all the stress of making this decision.  Do you mind sharing how you met and partnered with your mentor?  

Thanks everyone for your comments and I'll be sure and let you all know when I've DEFINATELY made a decision.

Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 05, 2005, 11:15:06 AM
Most of the professors that teach first years are known for humilation.....that's at most schools. Please don't think that's unique to HU.....because I can name about 10 at my alma mater that were jerks.  But I think key is to research and go where you feel most comfortable.  Talk to folks on the campus there.  If they are unhappy (and they have solid complaints) take that as a sign.

Joe Little was big on humiliation as was Jones (is he still there?), Quarles (I know he aint), Jacobs, and Hurst (he was nice).  Hmmmmm, who else tought first year.

Little still there humilating folks; Malavet; Twitchell; Baldwin (but he's soo cool); Davis; Moffatt (big time arse); Noah (you know about him right LP..lol)....

Yeah, I know about Noah.  But you are right, Baldwin was one of the coolest cats around. 
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 05, 2005, 01:23:45 PM
Hello fellow BLSDers!  I am actually the original poster.  I mentioned this a while back, but in another thread.  Sorry for the confusion.  As for my decision, I ended up paying the deposit at Howard and the 1st and 2nd seat deposits at Georgetown, only because my current employer suggested I send a formal request asking the company to foot the bill.  No word yet and I'm really getting down to the wire on this decision.  As I sit at work today, I really feel that Howard's offering fits better with the path I'd like to take (minimal debt, no commitment to my current employer or pressure to practice IP or Patent law).  

HUSL2007 - thanks for sharing your experiences Soror  ;).  I got soooo excited while reading your post.  Between staying on top of all the logistics of entering law school this fall and working full time, I've hardly given myself a chance to sit back and appreciate the great experience that I'll be embarking on.  Your post is inspiring and brought back the excitement that's gotten lost in all the stress of making this decision.  Do you mind sharing how you met and partnered with your mentor?  

Thanks everyone for your comments and I'll be sure and let you all know when I've DEFINATELY made a decision.



Finding My Mentor

At the beginning of the Fall semester I was paired with a upperclassmen.  She had way too much going on.  So I decided "I don't need a mentor!" "I got through undergrad without one and still was at the top of my class."  Around the middle of the semester... when EVERYONE was talking about outlining and synthesizing the rules, I was crying and pulling my hair out.  I needed someone to talk to about the way I was feeling. 

I had a lot of help from other students.  And I made a lot of friends but no one would push me and yell at me and give me tough love.

Well... one day in the Rhatt (student center) I was talking to my study partner and this student walked up to us because she heard us talking about LEEWS (an lawschool exam writing prep class) and she told us that we should take it.  And then she left.

I paid her no attention, took the advice and signed up for LEEWS...

It was unbelivable... I left LEEWS with some insight into preparing for finals.

I searched for the girl... asked my study partner... got the name... sent her an email.. and the rest is history.

She is the sweetest, smartest, most disciplined person I know at the law school.  I mean.. there are other students with those characteristics... but I know MY mentor.

She taught me how to take class notes... she told me the date I should start my outlines... she told me when to stop outlining... and believe it or not... she stayed up with me studying.  So my study partner, my mentor and I studied together.  When I need to study and my study partner couldn't make it ... she would be there... when her study partners could not make it she would call me to stay up with her. 

At the end of my first semester... I had wonderful grades... but not stellar (some would disagree but I don't think my grades where stellar).

I cried and complained... and she said she would slap the hell out of me (she has a weird sense of humor)... because I had great grades!

She helped me get my stuff together... showed me how to effectively prepare for an open book and close book examination.  She final showed me her secret to exam writing (must be tweaked for each professor)... My grades this semester were stellar!  She is wonderful... she told me what to do at my interviews, what to wear, what not to wear... it might sound crazy... but I don't have time to reinvent the wheel... I am working at a top firm in a major city (as a 1L - rising 2L)

My mentor has become a sister to me...

She said I would make the top 25%... I made that and exceeded that...

I wish that everyone could find a mentor like the one I had for the first year of law school and she will continue to be that mentor throughout my life. 

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: lex19 on July 05, 2005, 01:27:22 PM
HUSL, did you do the classroom or did you just buy the tapes/cd's for leews?
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 05, 2005, 01:29:26 PM
HUSL, did you do the classroom or did you just buy the tapes/cd's for leews?

Classroom. 
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on July 05, 2005, 01:58:33 PM
What's so bad about Noah?  Just asking so that I can watch out for him/her.  Which Noah is it, male or female?
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: GuysinRomearehot on July 05, 2005, 02:19:13 PM
Your mentor sounds wonderful, really really great. That is a really inspiring story that I hope I will get to experience in both roles.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: jdohno on July 05, 2005, 06:03:33 PM
The tapes/cds Leews package is the same program as the one at the  seminar. Except with the CD you can play it over again and he goes more into detail on it. At the beginning of the cd, Miller explains that the audio program is the same as the live version. Some people like to do the class and the tapes. I just did the tapes and book and did extremely well.


HUSL, did you do the classroom or did you just buy the tapes/cd's for leews?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 06, 2005, 07:17:57 AM
Hi im new to this board and I had several questions for HUSL2007 about howard law school. I'm from D.C. I have a 157 LSAT and a 3.8 GPA from a small private school. I was a military intelligence analyst for 4 years. Do I have a decent shot at admissions and if so is a scholarship possible? Also I noticed the abnormally high starting salary at howard law school (105,000 last time I checked.) Is that correct? I spent a few days looking at top law firms and don't see to many howard graduates but I did notice they had a higher amount of people go into the business sector. I was just hoping someone could explain this to me. Thank you for your time everyone.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: jdohno on July 06, 2005, 09:06:40 AM
You have to approach any schools' stats with skepticism. Also, Howard has a lot of grads who go into the government. Howard has a few people at some biglaw firms but not in abundance like Columbia or NYU. With your numbers, I hope Howard is one of many schools you apply to. You have a chance at getting a scholarship at many schools. If you can afford to go visit some schools. It makes all the difference. Good luck.


Hi im new to this board and I had several questions for HUSL2007 about howard law school. I'm from D.C. I have a 157 LSAT and a 3.8 GPA from a small private school. I was a military intelligence analyst for 4 years. Do I have a decent shot at admissions and if so is a scholarship possible? Also I noticed the abnormally high starting salary at howard law school (105,000 last time I checked.) Is that correct? I spent a few days looking at top law firms and don't see to many howard graduates but I did notice they had a higher amount of people go into the business sector. I was just hoping someone could explain this to me. Thank you for your time everyone.
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Roxie on July 06, 2005, 09:55:58 AM
So, are you planning to mentor a 1L next year (hint, hint ;))?  Roxie needs a mentor....


Hello fellow BLSDers!  I am actually the original poster.  I mentioned this a while back, but in another thread.  Sorry for the confusion.  As for my decision, I ended up paying the deposit at Howard and the 1st and 2nd seat deposits at Georgetown, only because my current employer suggested I send a formal request asking the company to foot the bill.  No word yet and I'm really getting down to the wire on this decision.  As I sit at work today, I really feel that Howard's offering fits better with the path I'd like to take (minimal debt, no commitment to my current employer or pressure to practice IP or Patent law).  

HUSL2007 - thanks for sharing your experiences Soror  ;).  I got soooo excited while reading your post.  Between staying on top of all the logistics of entering law school this fall and working full time, I've hardly given myself a chance to sit back and appreciate the great experience that I'll be embarking on.  Your post is inspiring and brought back the excitement that's gotten lost in all the stress of making this decision.  Do you mind sharing how you met and partnered with your mentor?  

Thanks everyone for your comments and I'll be sure and let you all know when I've DEFINATELY made a decision.



Finding My Mentor

At the beginning of the Fall semester I was paired with a upperclassmen.  She had way too much going on.  So I decided "I don't need a mentor!" "I got through undergrad without one and still was at the top of my class."  Around the middle of the semester... when EVERYONE was talking about outlining and synthesizing the rules, I was crying and pulling my hair out.  I needed someone to talk to about the way I was feeling. 

I had a lot of help from other students.  And I made a lot of friends but no one would push me and yell at me and give me tough love.

Well... one day in the Rhatt (student center) I was talking to my study partner and this student walked up to us because she heard us talking about LEEWS (an lawschool exam writing prep class) and she told us that we should take it.  And then she left.

I paid her no attention, took the advice and signed up for LEEWS...

It was unbelivable... I left LEEWS with some insight into preparing for finals.

I searched for the girl... asked my study partner... got the name... sent her an email.. and the rest is history.

She is the sweetest, smartest, most disciplined person I know at the law school.  I mean.. there are other students with those characteristics... but I know MY mentor.

She taught me how to take class notes... she told me the date I should start my outlines... she told me when to stop outlining... and believe it or not... she stayed up with me studying.  So my study partner, my mentor and I studied together.  When I need to study and my study partner couldn't make it ... she would be there... when her study partners could not make it she would call me to stay up with her. 

At the end of my first semester... I had wonderful grades... but not stellar (some would disagree but I don't think my grades where stellar).

I cried and complained... and she said she would slap the hell out of me (she has a weird sense of humor)... because I had great grades!

She helped me get my stuff together... showed me how to effectively prepare for an open book and close book examination.  She final showed me her secret to exam writing (must be tweaked for each professor)... My grades this semester were stellar!  She is wonderful... she told me what to do at my interviews, what to wear, what not to wear... it might sound crazy... but I don't have time to reinvent the wheel... I am working at a top firm in a major city (as a 1L - rising 2L)

My mentor has become a sister to me...

She said I would make the top 25%... I made that and exceeded that...

I wish that everyone could find a mentor like the one I had for the first year of law school and she will continue to be that mentor throughout my life. 

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 06, 2005, 12:36:54 PM
So, are you planning to mentor a 1L next year (hint, hint ;))?  Roxie needs a mentor....

Roxie, I prefer not to have an assigned mentee.  I will help you succeed.  You can claim me as your mentor... but I won't hide the ball from other students that seek my help.  I don't think it would be fair... since my mentor had other people she would help out.  Send me a PM and I will give you my number... you can call before you start school or after you start school... I will help you.  Be safe and get lots of sleep!

Title: Re: Anyone with personal experience choosing Howard w/ $ over T14?
Post by: Roxie on July 06, 2005, 12:50:06 PM
No prob - I won't be a mentor hog..... ;)  It's just great to know that there are people around willing to help!

So, are you planning to mentor a 1L next year (hint, hint ;))?  Roxie needs a mentor....

Roxie, I prefer not to have an assigned mentee.  I will help you succeed.  You can claim me as your mentor... but I won't hide the ball from other students that seek my help.  I don't think it would be fair... since my mentor had other people she would help out.  Send me a PM and I will give you my number... you can call before you start school or after you start school... I will help you.  Be safe and get lots of sleep!


Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 06, 2005, 12:51:34 PM
Hi im new to this board and I had several questions for HUSL2007 about howard law school. I'm from D.C. I have a 157 LSAT and a 3.8 GPA from a small private school. I was a military intelligence analyst for 4 years. Do I have a decent shot at admissions and if so is a scholarship possible? Also I noticed the abnormally high starting salary at howard law school (105,000 last time I checked.) Is that correct? I spent a few days looking at top law firms and don't see to many howard graduates but I did notice they had a higher amount of people go into the business sector. I was just hoping someone could explain this to me. Thank you for your time everyone.

Disclaimer:  I have no knowledge about tehe admissions criteria at Howard Law.  Any opinion offered my me about Howard is in no way indicative of Howard's admissions criteria. 

Now that I have gotten the disclaimer out of the way...

Yes I think you stand a good chance of getting into Howard Law with a scholarship.  The top 40% of Howard Grads end up a biglaw and medium law firms.  If you are at least in the top 25% of the class you stand a good chance of starting at 105K, this of course is subject change base on where you decide to work.. example NY biglaw averages at 125K, Chicago 115-125K, atlanta 105-110K.

The decision on where you want to work after lawschool is a personal decision.  Frankly I know people at the top of the class that would refuse a job at a biglaw.   And I know people who are not in the top of the class that get jobs at top US law firms... some students want to do international human rights... while others want a 9-5 government job.  If you know what you want, then you work for what you want.  I like to keep my options open... so I stay in the top of my class... in the event I want to do biglaw...

I would suggest that you take time out to think about your choice of law school.  I would suggest you call the dean... meet with him... and apply on the spot if you are pleased... I am happy with my choice... As Jdohno said.. there are many NYU and Columbia grads at biglaw... and while this is no surprise to me... there are just not many BLACK nyu and columbia grads at biglaw.  Based on my experience (meager at best) I noticed this summer at my firm (biglaw) that we had 5 howard grads but only like 3 vandy, 2 emory BLACK attys.  Now you do the math... seems like somebody is recruiting heavily at HUSL... further, I noticed that a lot of people SLEEP on HUSL...

Trust me if you attend... you will be so surprised at the level of intensity and learn at HUSL... I can't get any better than being a HUSLer!

Peace

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: jdohno on July 06, 2005, 02:06:39 PM
There aren't many BLACK grads of any law school at big law. It's important if biglaw is your career choice to go to a great school and do extremely well there. Even if you don't want to do biglaw at first, as HUSL 2007 stated, you want to have the option. Once you sit down and decide what area of law you want to practice among other things, look at many different law schools. I can't stressed enough about visiting law schools. Or talking to recent graduates and find out about employment prospects, etc. With your numbers, you can apply to a nice range of law schools. Go to LSAC.org and look at the ABA guide to get started.


I would suggest that you take time out to think about your choice of law school.  I would suggest you call the dean... meet with him... and apply on the spot if you are pleased... I am happy with my choice... As Jdohno said.. there are many NYU and Columbia grads at biglaw... and while this is no surprise to me... there are just not many BLACK nyu and columbia grads at biglaw.  Based on my experience (meager at best) I noticed this summer at my firm (biglaw) that we had 5 howard grads but only like 3 vandy, 2 emory BLACK attys.  Now you do the math... seems like somebody is recruiting heavily at HUSL... further, I noticed that a lot of people SLEEP on HUSL...

Trust me if you attend... you will be so surprised at the level of intensity and learn at HUSL... I can't get any better than being a HUSLer!

Peace

HUSL2007
Title: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 12, 2005, 12:13:27 PM
I just called Texas Southern because I haven't been able to get anyone on the phone about my financial aid. Got a hold of someone today and not only did they tell me that my financial aid was done but that I got a scholarship. TSU gave me a full tuition scholarship!! I'm stunned.

I'm happy but I am crying. These last few months have been so hard. I have been working 2 jobs to save money for school. I haven't heard anything from TSU since I was accepted. Now it looks like my first year will be taken care of. I'm stunned. I'm overjoyed.

I can finally get excited about starting law school instead of pulling out my hair wondering how I am going to pay for it. I don't know what to do now. I will quit one of my jobs now to get rid of some of the stress. I don't know why I cried instead of being happy when they told me about the scholarship. It has been so hard. I'm not a religious person but right now I really feel like someone is watching over me. I'm just so happy. I hope no one minds me sharing my joy and shock.
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: lex19 on July 12, 2005, 12:14:45 PM
congrats blkhtw, your news gives me hope! goodluck in the fall
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: YoungIke on July 12, 2005, 12:16:47 PM
Congrats, the Lord works in mystrious ways and I am so happy for you!
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: twarga on July 12, 2005, 12:21:30 PM
I just called Texas Southern because I haven't been able to get anyone on the phone about my financial aid. Got a hold of someone today and not only did they tell me that my financial aid was done but that I got a scholarship. TSU gave me a full tuition scholarship!! I'm stunned.

I'm happy but I am crying. These last few months have been so hard. I have been working 2 jobs to save money for school. I haven't heard anything from TSU since I was accepted. Now it looks like my first year will be taken care of. I'm stunned. I'm overjoyed.

I can finally get excited about starting law school instead of pulling out my hair wondering how I am going to pay for it. I don't know what to do now. I will quit one of my jobs now to get rid of some of the stress. I don't know why I cried instead of being happy when they told me about the scholarship. It has been so hard. I'm not a religious person but right now I really feel like someone is watching over me. I'm just so happy. I hope no one minds me sharing my joy and shock.

Having that scholarship will surely take the burden off.  I chose Widener (Tier 4) over Temple, Rutgers Camden, and Villanova because they offered me a full ride.  Who needs to be stressing out over money when you can be concetrating on your school work?  Congratulations!
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on July 12, 2005, 12:21:48 PM
I love it when a plan comes together!

Let me give you a strong congratulations from a fellow financially frustrated law student.  I know exactly how you feel - a weight is lifted and you can finally start thinking about law school as a real part of your future now.

Congrats again.  Make us proud.

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 12, 2005, 12:30:12 PM
Yes he does. I don't know what I did to deserve this. Someone up there is really looking out for me. I was thinking about deferring.

I need to stop crying and shaking. I'm going to get something to drink. It's my day off from work. Thank you to everyone for letting me share my joy.

Congrats, the Lord works in mystrious ways and I am so happy for you!
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 12, 2005, 12:31:06 PM
Congratulations on your scholarship too. Your cat is adorable.

I just called Texas Southern because I haven't been able to get anyone on the phone about my financial aid. Got a hold of someone today and not only did they tell me that my financial aid was done but that I got a scholarship. TSU gave me a full tuition scholarship!! I'm stunned.

I'm happy but I am crying. These last few months have been so hard. I have been working 2 jobs to save money for school. I haven't heard anything from TSU since I was accepted. Now it looks like my first year will be taken care of. I'm stunned. I'm overjoyed.

I can finally get excited about starting law school instead of pulling out my hair wondering how I am going to pay for it. I don't know what to do now. I will quit one of my jobs now to get rid of some of the stress. I don't know why I cried instead of being happy when they told me about the scholarship. It has been so hard. I'm not a religious person but right now I really feel like someone is watching over me. I'm just so happy. I hope no one minds me sharing my joy and shock.

Having that scholarship will surely take the burden off.  I chose Widener (Tier 4) over Temple, Rutgers Camden, and Villanova because they offered me a full ride.  Who needs to be stressing out over money when you can be concetrating on your school work?  Congratulations!
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 12, 2005, 02:31:55 PM
Oh sh*t! That is great! I'm a hater!! >:( i'm going to call Southenr University and ask them what the @#!* is up!

Congrats! :D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 12, 2005, 04:02:54 PM
Oh wow, this is awesome!  Congrats!  ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blk_reign on July 12, 2005, 05:51:50 PM
Congrats!! you are about to do some big things here in H-Town..and on a full ride??!?!? you have no worries... definitely a blessing

---

if you need help finding an apt let me know.. I reside in Houston currently
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 12, 2005, 06:01:45 PM
Congrats!! you are about to do some big things here in H-Town..and on a full ride??!?!? you have no worries... definitely a blessing

---

if you need help finding an apt let me know.. I reside in Houston currently

Or perhaps he may want a house and needs a home loan ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 12, 2005, 07:08:29 PM
I'm a girl. I'm from Cali and it's definitely more affordable down here in Houston. But no home yet.



Or perhaps he may want a house and needs a home loan ;)
Quote
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 12, 2005, 07:13:13 PM
Thank you. I don't have a car so I'm living on campus first year. So far everyone has told me it's a bad idea. But without a car in Houston I don't have a lot of options.  I already paid the nonrefundable housing deposit.

I will buy a supply of earplugs. Also, my roommate is another 1L so that's a good thing.

Congrats!! you are about to do some big things here in H-Town..and on a full ride??!?!? you have no worries... definitely a blessing

---

if you need help finding an apt let me know.. I reside in Houston currently
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Made4law on July 12, 2005, 07:43:27 PM
Big, Big congrats, fellow TSU Thurgood Marshall 1L...Hope to see you around...

HBCU, I could've told you she was not a he...hint hint, the crying part of the post kinda gave her away...but anyway I wanna cry for ya, but I can't remember how, sad I know :-[  So I'll just toast one for ya and pray for your success ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 12, 2005, 07:47:27 PM
Big, Big congrats, fellow TSU Thurgood Marshall 1L...Hope to see you around...

HBCU, I could've told you she was not a he...hint hint, the crying part of the post kinda gave her away...but anyway I wanna cry for ya, but I can't remember how, sad I know :-[  So I'll just toast one for ya and pray for your success ;D

Hey, I cry and I'm not a girl. I think girls like guys who are not afraid to show their feelings. right? :'( I'm a "natural" man. progressive and sh*t. 
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blk_reign on July 12, 2005, 07:48:46 PM
wouldn't it be interesting if i ended up being one of your professors???
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 12, 2005, 08:38:58 PM
wouldn't it be interesting if i ended up being one of your professors???

then we'd have two professors on board :D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blk_reign on July 12, 2005, 08:47:26 PM
well... that's true.. but 25 and a law professor??? i have high hopes ;D


wouldn't it be interesting if i ended up being one of your professors???

then we'd have two professors on board :D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 12, 2005, 09:39:05 PM
well... that's true.. but 25 and a law professor??? i have high hopes ;D


wouldn't it be interesting if i ended up being one of your professors???

then we'd have two professors on board :D

she's got HIGH hopes, she's got HIGH hopes, she's got HOT APPLE PIE IN THE SKY HOPES...

sorry
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: wildcataz2004 on July 12, 2005, 10:05:59 PM
Congrats. That's great news
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 12, 2005, 11:40:03 PM
Congrats.  Don't feel bad.  I cried when I got my scholarship too . . .I found out the day before my birthday and it was the best birthday present ever.  ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 12, 2005, 11:41:18 PM
I love it when a plan comes together!

Let me give you a strong congratulations from a fellow financially frustrated law student.  I know exactly how you feel - a weight is lifted and you can finally start thinking about law school as a real part of your future now.

Congrats again.  Make us proud.



Man, you been watching A-Team re-runs on Nick at Night again??? :D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 12, 2005, 11:44:24 PM
Girl, you can do it, I got faith in ya. :)

well... that's true.. but 25 and a law professor??? i have high hopes ;D


wouldn't it be interesting if i ended up being one of your professors???

then we'd have two professors on board :D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: jdohno on July 13, 2005, 12:08:03 AM
Congrats. They should have told you about that scholarship earlier. It sounds like it would have taken off some stress (the two jobs).
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 13, 2005, 12:10:22 AM
Are any of you guys going to work while you are in law school?  :(
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: jdohno on July 13, 2005, 12:14:47 AM
You shouldn't work your first year if you can afford to. If you have to work, it shouldn't be more than 10hr/wk. There's a lot of studying and reading outside of class time. Those are the ABA rules for first year. Right? I guess it depends on the person.

Are any of you guys going to work while you are in law school?  :(
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 13, 2005, 04:11:09 AM
Congrats!!!!  I am glad you have your money situation figured it...that makes school so much easier.
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: seu2002 on July 14, 2005, 12:29:21 AM
hey blkhtw,

this is late, but here's a wholehearted congrats to you from moi!   :) :)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: ScurvyWench on July 14, 2005, 09:23:54 PM
I'm a girl from Cali and I just moved out to Houston as well. Blk helped me out with home loan. My husband and I bought a house here. We're pretty close to Texas Southern, South Texas, and UH. I too was lured by the money and cheap cost of living. Welcome! I'll be having a gathering on 7/23 and I live in H-town on the border of Pearland. You're welcome to come, I'll even pick you up if you like. :) Nice to meet you and congrats on the full ride!

You can come study out here for finals if you want. I'm serious.

I'm a girl. I'm from Cali and it's definitely more affordable down here in Houston. But no home yet.



Or perhaps he may want a house and needs a home loan ;)
Quote

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 14, 2005, 09:40:45 PM
Oh you're so sweet. What part of California are you from? I'm from north of Los Angeles. I don't know where Pearland is but I'm staying with friends in the Northwest part of Houston. I'm sure since your gathering is on the weekend it wouldn't be a problem for me to get there. I will PM you about that.

Actually I should thank you for my full ride. I saw your post a while ago when I was lurker about how you wrote a letter to UH asking for a instate waiver. I did the same thing for TSU but I never heard anything. So I just wrote them off and worked the two jobs until I called the law school and they told me. So thank you for the idea about the letter. I wanted to go to UH but the money from TSU has taken care of that. I can finally start enjoying my summer before law school instead of worrying constantly about the money. I finally understand the saying "too blessed to be stressed." It's still going to be a tough year but it's a little easier now.

Thanks to everyone for your congratulations. I will PM you later Scurvy. Thanks again for the gracious invitation. BTW: I don't know about you but I am missing the dry Cali heat. I have already had a couple of sunburns and I was only in the sun maybe 10 minutes waiting for the buses.  :(

I'm a girl from Cali and I just moved out to Houston as well. Blk helped me out with home loan. My husband and I bought a house here. We're pretty close to Texas Southern, South Texas, and UH. I too was lured by the money and cheap cost of living. Welcome! I'll be having a gathering on 7/23 and I live in H-town on the border of Pearland. You're welcome to come, I'll even pick you up if you like. :) Nice to meet you and congrats on the full ride!

You can come study out here for finals if you want. I'm serious.

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: ScurvyWench on July 14, 2005, 09:58:53 PM
Orange County. Are you here in Htown yet? I could've given you a ride. I flew in to LAX on Monday, picked up my car and immediately started the drive back out to TX. I made in great time.

I'm glad I could help. I'll look for your PM. :)

Oh you're so sweet. What part of California are you from? I'm from north of Los Angeles. I don't know where Pearland is but I'm staying with friends in the Northwest part of Houston. I'm sure since your gathering is on the weekend it wouldn't be a problem for me to get there. I will PM you about that.

Actually I should thank you for my full ride. I saw your post a while ago when I was lurker about how you wrote a letter to UH asking for a instate waiver. I did the same thing for TSU but I never heard anything. So I just wrote them off and worked the two jobs until I called the law school and they told me. So thank you for the idea about the letter. I wanted to go to UH but the money from TSU has taken care of that. I can finally start enjoying my summer before law school instead of worrying constantly about the money. I finally understand the saying "too blessed to be stressed." It's still going to be a tough year but it's a little easier now.

Thanks to everyone for your congratulations. I will PM you later Scurvy. Thanks again for the gracious invitation. BTW: I don't know about you but I am missing the dry Cali heat. I have already had a couple of sunburns and I was only in the sun maybe 10 minutes waiting for the buses.  :(

I'm a girl from Cali and I just moved out to Houston as well. Blk helped me out with home loan. My husband and I bought a house here. We're pretty close to Texas Southern, South Texas, and UH. I too was lured by the money and cheap cost of living. Welcome! I'll be having a gathering on 7/23 and I live in H-town on the border of Pearland. You're welcome to come, I'll even pick you up if you like. :) Nice to meet you and congrats on the full ride!

You can come study out here for finals if you want. I'm serious.

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 14, 2005, 10:03:39 PM
I just sent you a PM. I have been in Houston for a few months now. But I have only been staying in the Northwest part of town with my friends. I haven't been out in the town yet. You drove from Orange County to Houston? I have to asked you about that later. Talk to you soon.

Orange County. Are you here in Htown yet? I could've given you a ride. I flew in to LAX on Monday, picked up my car and immediately started the drive back out to TX. I made in great time.

I'm glad I could help. I'll look for your PM. :)

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 14, 2005, 10:11:46 PM
awwww . . .look at everyone meeting up on the board!!! brings a tear to my eye . . . :'( :'( :D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 14, 2005, 10:17:32 PM
dang there is a bunch of BLSD folks in Texas.  You should meetup.
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 14, 2005, 10:53:34 PM
How many of us are here in Houston?

dang there is a bunch of BLSD folks in Texas.  You should meetup.
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 15, 2005, 12:17:48 AM
I'm a girl from Cali and I just moved out to Houston as well. Blk helped me out with home loan. My husband and I bought a house here. We're pretty close to Texas Southern, South Texas, and UH. I too was lured by the money and cheap cost of living. Welcome! I'll be having a gathering on 7/23 and I live in H-town on the border of Pearland. You're welcome to come, I'll even pick you up if you like. :) Nice to meet you and congrats on the full ride!

You can come study out here for finals if you want. I'm serious.

I'm a girl. I'm from Cali and it's definitely more affordable down here in Houston. But no home yet.



Or perhaps he may want a house and needs a home loan ;)
Quote



This has nothing to do with me, but wow, that was such a sweet offer!  I keep almost deleting my LSD account but this kind of stuff makes me want to stay.  How nice of you. :)

STAY!!!!!!!!!!!!  We will miss you if you delete your account!! :) :)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: ScurvyWench on July 15, 2005, 08:20:56 AM
How many of us are here in Houston?

dang there is a bunch of BLSD folks in Texas.  You should meetup.

At least 3.

How are we gonna convince Mob to give up the Ivy League for us? This place would be much better if she were here! :)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blk_reign on July 15, 2005, 08:43:35 AM
hey u're in North West Houston?? So am I.. Cypress area to be exact without giving out my address :D :D :D.. there are four of us here to my knowledge..


scurvy, made4law, me, and blkhtw...

Blk- buy some sunscreen.. I'm just thanking God for the rain because this is the first time in two months that I've seen weather in the 80s during the day...

Mob- this is what the board is about.. support.. help and uplift.. when and if anyone else is ready to purchase a home I'm here for that as well

Oh you're so sweet. What part of California are you from? I'm from north of Los Angeles. I don't know where Pearland is but I'm staying with friends in the Northwest part of Houston. I'm sure since your gathering is on the weekend it wouldn't be a problem for me to get there. I will PM you about that.

Actually I should thank you for my full ride. I saw your post a while ago when I was lurker about how you wrote a letter to UH asking for a instate waiver. I did the same thing for TSU but I never heard anything. So I just wrote them off and worked the two jobs until I called the law school and they told me. So thank you for the idea about the letter. I wanted to go to UH but the money from TSU has taken care of that. I can finally start enjoying my summer before law school instead of worrying constantly about the money. I finally understand the saying "too blessed to be stressed." It's still going to be a tough year but it's a little easier now.

Thanks to everyone for your congratulations. I will PM you later Scurvy. Thanks again for the gracious invitation. BTW: I don't know about you but I am missing the dry Cali heat. I have already had a couple of sunburns and I was only in the sun maybe 10 minutes waiting for the buses.  :(

I'm a girl from Cali and I just moved out to Houston as well. Blk helped me out with home loan. My husband and I bought a house here. We're pretty close to Texas Southern, South Texas, and UH. I too was lured by the money and cheap cost of living. Welcome! I'll be having a gathering on 7/23 and I live in H-town on the border of Pearland. You're welcome to come, I'll even pick you up if you like. :) Nice to meet you and congrats on the full ride!

You can come study out here for finals if you want. I'm serious.

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 15, 2005, 08:54:16 AM
Well like I told Scurvy, last week was the first time in my life I bought sunscreen. It took me a while to find a brand in the store that didn't say something about "preserving a tan."  ::) I learned my lesson. My current sunburn is on face and it's flaking badly. I thought I was safe because I'm dark but now I know better. Without giving out my address, I'm near Cypress. The Willowbrook Mall is about 20 minutes away from me.

hey u're in North West Houston?? So am I.. Cypress area to be exact without giving out my address :D :D :D.. there are four of us here to my knowledge..


scurvy, made4law, me, and blkhtw...

Blk- buy some sunscreen.. I'm just thanking God for the rain because this is the first time in two months that I've seen weather in the 80s during the day...

Mob- this is what the board is about.. support.. help and uplift.. when and if anyone else is ready to purchase a home I'm here for that as well

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 15, 2005, 09:18:51 AM
How many of us are here in Houston?

dang there is a bunch of BLSD folks in Texas.  You should meetup.

At least 3.

How are we gonna convince Mob to give up the Ivy League for us? This place would be much better if she were here! :)
lmao, you ain't never going to convince MOB to give up the Ivy League.  :D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blk_reign on July 15, 2005, 09:23:37 AM
I know the area well... have you figured out how you're going to commute to TSU yet? I didn't know that the bus line ran that far



Well like I told Scurvy, last week was the first time in my life I bought sunscreen. It took me a while to find a brand in the store that didn't say something about "preserving a tan."  ::) I learned my lesson. My current sunburn is on face and it's flaking badly. I thought I was safe because I'm dark but now I know better. Without giving out my address, I'm near Cypress. The Willowbrook Mall is about 20 minutes away from me.

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 15, 2005, 10:02:23 AM
No no. I'm moving down to TSU the first week of August. There is a bus line out here near Stubener Airline that goes straight downtown. I did a check of the bus lines. From my current location, it would be about 3 buses and a little under 2 hours to get to TSU. So I'm moving down there to the on campus apartments. I will be three blocks walking distance from the law school.

I will miss the Northwest. Hopefully I can afford to buy a house out here someday.

I know the area well... have you figured out how you're going to commute to TSU yet? I didn't know that the bus line ran that far



Quote
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 15, 2005, 10:02:59 AM
 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


Carry on, please . . .in the spirit of brotherhood / sisterhood . . .

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 15, 2005, 10:06:21 AM
Hey SMU, tell me what is the difference between Dallas and Houston? Every time I ask someone in Houston about Dallas, they always say that Dallas is awful, small, etc. But Black Enterprise ranked Dallas ahead of Houston in their best cities survey.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


Carry on, please . . .in the spirit of brotherhood / sisterhood . . .

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blk_reign on July 15, 2005, 10:10:15 AM
i'm sure u'll be able to afford a nice home out here in NW....you can find a 1 story at 150k easily...

yeah u definitely need to move closer to the university without a car.. that's too much time to spend on a bus to get to law school..


No no. I'm moving down to TSU the first week of August. There is a bus line out here near Stubener Airline that goes straight downtown. I did a check of the bus lines. From my current location, it would be about 3 buses and a little under 2 hours to get to TSU. So I'm moving down there to the on campus apartments. I will be three blocks walking distance from the law school.

I will miss the Northwest. Hopefully I can afford to buy a house out here someday.

I know the area well... have you figured out how you're going to commute to TSU yet? I didn't know that the bus line ran that far



Quote
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 15, 2005, 10:54:57 AM
Houston is huge!

Dallas, is pretty big, but there are lots of surburbs.  Lots of people work or go to school in Dallas, but live in the suburbs.

I don't really know the difference.  I am a little biased beecause I have been here all of my life, but there's lots to do in Dallas/ Ft. Worth.  Some people hate Dallas because everything is spread out.  The traffic is pretty bad, too, in certain areas.  I've never been to Houston, though, so I wouldn't know . . . .Its impossible to do anything without a car here.  For instance, I live in a suburb with my mom about 30 miles south of downtown. Public transportation cuts off about 15 miles north of me, close to where my grandmother lives. Dallas is kind of backwards sometimes, but I love it anyway. Also, the crime rates in Houston are higher than the ones in Dallas, I think.  Dallas has great museums, a cool club scene (though I've never been to a club myself; i live vicariously through my friends) and LOTS of malls.  Shopping in Dallas is WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!  ;D  Oh, and when the state fair comes here, its pretty cool too. There's some new waterpark that just opened . . . I'm supposed to be going soon, but I'm not sure when.

Hey SMU, tell me what is the difference between Dallas and Houston? Every time I ask someone in Houston about Dallas, they always say that Dallas is awful, small, etc. But Black Enterprise ranked Dallas ahead of Houston in their best cities survey.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


Carry on, please . . .in the spirit of brotherhood / sisterhood . . .

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: ScurvyWench on July 15, 2005, 11:20:51 AM
Houston is the 4th largest city in the country and IMHO has a ton to offer. It has theatre, sports, amazing shopping (esp at the Galleria), fabulous museums, good club scene (from what I hear), great food, and low cost of living. I'm incredibly happy here. I've been to all of the major cities in Texas and I like Houston best. I also like Austin, but it was kindof a Texan Berkeley.

I re-visited most of Texas this week staying with friends on my drive through. Still very happy to have chosen Houston.

Houston is huge!

Dallas, is pretty big, but there are lots of surburbs.  Lots of people work or go to school in Dallas, but live in the suburbs.

I don't really know the difference.  I am a little biased beecause I have been here all of my life, but there's lots to do in Dallas/ Ft. Worth.  Some people hate Dallas because everything is spread out.  The traffic is pretty bad, too, in certain areas.  I've never been to Houston, though, so I wouldn't know . . . .Its impossible to do anything without a car here.  For instance, I live in a suburb with my mom about 30 miles south of downtown. Public transportation cuts off about 15 miles north of me, close to where my grandmother lives. Dallas is kind of backwards sometimes, but I love it anyway. Also, the crime rates in Houston are higher than the ones in Dallas, I think.  Dallas has great museums, a cool club scene (though I've never been to a club myself; i live vicariously through my friends) and LOTS of malls.  Shopping in Dallas is WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!  ;D  Oh, and when the state fair comes here, its pretty cool too. There's some new waterpark that just opened . . . I'm supposed to be going soon, but I'm not sure when.

Hey SMU, tell me what is the difference between Dallas and Houston? Every time I ask someone in Houston about Dallas, they always say that Dallas is awful, small, etc. But Black Enterprise ranked Dallas ahead of Houston in their best cities survey.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


Carry on, please . . .in the spirit of brotherhood / sisterhood . . .

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 15, 2005, 11:22:43 AM
Texas folk love their state! I've got a good morehouse buddy and if you met him he would say..."hello..i'm joe from dallas"...we call that negro "joe from dallas". what do you guys love about texas?  
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 15, 2005, 01:10:20 PM
Lol. HBCU . . . Just like you love where you grew up, we love where we grew up!!!

Scurvy, I think most people try to develop a rivalry b/t Houston and Dallas . . .. I say that each city is different, has its strengths and weaknesses. I think its because Dallas used to be the city for everything, and then in the 60s houston started to blow up and give dallas a run for its money.  Sorry to put Texas history in the mix . . . . :-\
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: ScurvyWench on July 15, 2005, 01:19:09 PM
Lol. HBCU . . . Just like you love where you grew up, we love where we grew up!!!

Scurvy, I think most people try to develop a rivalry b/t Houston and Dallas . . .. I say that each city is different, has its strengths and weaknesses. I think its because Dallas used to be the city for everything, and then in the 60s houston started to blow up and give dallas a run for its money.  Sorry to put Texas history in the mix . . . . :-\

People are always trying to get some type of rivalry going. How funny!

Depending on my husband's job, I might have to try to get over to Dallas for good. In that case, I'll be looking you up to have you show me around.

HBCU, I'm from Cali. I just happen to like Texas. If I'm here, I might as well learn to love it. No sense in letting myself be miserable.
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: New Man on July 15, 2005, 01:28:56 PM
Just wanna say congrats, that is AWESOME!!

I always tell my friends that the Lord has always been there for me in my time of need and I am glad that you see he has been there for you too.

And also I have to say Scurvy, you are the most fantastic person. I have alot of your posts and have been very impressed with your kind heart. God Bless You!! (almost makes me want to go to Houston)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 15, 2005, 01:36:16 PM
No problem showing you around. Just be prepared to ride around a lot . . .especially for the best shopping.  There's a Dillard Clearance Center in Arlington . . .every time I go in there I come out with a new wardrobe for like 100 bucks.  The last time I went it was march and they were moving to a new mall, and they had 75% off the clearance prices that were already 50-75% off.  I got swimsuits for 5 bucks, shoes for 5 bucks, dresses and skirts for 3 dollars, and I spent about 80 dollars that day . . . .mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... shopping ....... ;D


Lol. HBCU . . . Just like you love where you grew up, we love where we grew up!!!

Scurvy, I think most people try to develop a rivalry b/t Houston and Dallas . . .. I say that each city is different, has its strengths and weaknesses. I think its because Dallas used to be the city for everything, and then in the 60s houston started to blow up and give dallas a run for its money.  Sorry to put Texas history in the mix . . . . :-\

People are always trying to get some type of rivalry going. How funny!

Depending on my husband's job, I might have to try to get over to Dallas for good. In that case, I'll be looking you up to have you show me around.

HBCU, I'm from Cali. I just happen to like Texas. If I'm here, I might as well learn to love it. No sense in letting myself be miserable.
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: ScurvyWench on July 15, 2005, 01:43:15 PM
And also I have to say Scurvy, you are the most fantastic person. I have alot of your posts and have been very impressed with your kind heart. God Bless You!! (almost makes me want to go to Houston)

Thanks! That's so sweet. I really just try to help out when I can. I've had some people in my life who were fantastic to me and I only want to be able to do that for others. Do unto others. . . :)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 15, 2005, 03:37:20 PM
And also I have to say Scurvy, you are the most fantastic person. I have alot of your posts and have been very impressed with your kind heart. God Bless You!! (almost makes me want to go to Houston)

Thanks! That's so sweet. I really just try to help out when I can. I've had some people in my life who were fantastic to me and I only want to be able to do that for others. Do unto others. . . :)

Hmmm, lets see what I can get you to do for me!!  ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 15, 2005, 03:37:55 PM
No problem showing you around. Just be prepared to ride around a lot . . .especially for the best shopping.  There's a Dillard Clearance Center in Arlington . . .every time I go in there I come out with a new wardrobe for like 100 bucks.  The last time I went it was march and they were moving to a new mall, and they had 75% off the clearance prices that were already 50-75% off.  I got swimsuits for 5 bucks, shoes for 5 bucks, dresses and skirts for 3 dollars, and I spent about 80 dollars that day . . . .mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... shopping ....... ;D


Lol. HBCU . . . Just like you love where you grew up, we love where we grew up!!!

Scurvy, I think most people try to develop a rivalry b/t Houston and Dallas . . .. I say that each city is different, has its strengths and weaknesses. I think its because Dallas used to be the city for everything, and then in the 60s houston started to blow up and give dallas a run for its money.  Sorry to put Texas history in the mix . . . . :-\

People are always trying to get some type of rivalry going. How funny!

Depending on my husband's job, I might have to try to get over to Dallas for good. In that case, I'll be looking you up to have you show me around.

HBCU, I'm from Cali. I just happen to like Texas. If I'm here, I might as well learn to love it. No sense in letting myself be miserable.

 :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 15, 2005, 05:15:58 PM
LP, watch yourself. There is nothing wrong with buying Ralph Lauren skirts,swimsuits and dresses, Nautica Swimsuits, Cole Haan  and Anne Klein shoes, and everything else I find at the Dillards Clearance center . . .don't hate.  :P

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .shopping!!!  :P ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blk_reign on July 15, 2005, 05:17:28 PM
no there isn't.. how far is arlington from houston again? :D

LP, watch yourself. There is nothing wrong with buying Ralph Lauren skirts,swimsuits and dresses, Nautica Swimsuits, Cole Haan  and Anne Klein shoes, and everything else I find at the Dillards Clearance center . . .don't hate.  :P

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .shopping!!!  :P ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 15, 2005, 05:22:11 PM
Don't get me started blk . . . . :D

no there isn't.. how far is arlington from houston again? :D

LP, watch yourself. There is nothing wrong with buying Ralph Lauren skirts,swimsuits and dresses, Nautica Swimsuits, Cole Haan  and Anne Klein shoes, and everything else I find at the Dillards Clearance center . . .don't hate.  :P

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .shopping!!!  :P ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Made4law on July 15, 2005, 06:26:40 PM
Awww, I missed all of the Houston love :'(  Texas is cool in my book for many reasons, one it's the least trifling of all the southern states, they try their best to keep tuition low, and the people are the nicest in the country, example...This happened to me today. I was at the auto shop getting some repairs done to my car and the guy who works behind the counter asked me what brought me to Texas and I told him. He wished me luck and then asked about my family. We got to talking about my wife and the type of work she does...This guy gives me the name and number of his wife and tells me she works in the HR dept of a big insurance company.  He then calls her and gives her my wife's name and tell her my wife will be contacting her and could she see what she could do for her.  I had just met this guy. It was the nicest gesture, by a stranger I have ever had. 

Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 15, 2005, 08:06:36 PM
Awww, I missed all of the Houston love :'(  Texas is cool in my book for many reasons, one it's the least trifling of all the southern states, they try their best to keep tuition low, and the people are the nicest in the country, example...This happened to me today. I was at the auto shop getting some repairs done to my car and the guy who works behind the counter asked me what brought me to Texas and I told him. He wished me luck and then asked about my family. We got to talking about my wife and the type of work she does...This guy gives me the name and number of his wife and tells me she works in the HR dept of a big insurance company.  He then calls her and gives her my wife's name and tell her my wife will be contacting her and could she see what she could do for her.  I had just met this guy. It was the nicest gesture, by a stranger I have ever had. 



southern folk are so nice.. :P
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 15, 2005, 10:37:09 PM
It's that southern hospitality thing . . . ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 15, 2005, 11:13:18 PM
What???? I didnt say anything??????????
LP, watch yourself. There is nothing wrong with buying Ralph Lauren skirts,swimsuits and dresses, Nautica Swimsuits, Cole Haan  and Anne Klein shoes, and everything else I find at the Dillards Clearance center . . .don't hate.  :P

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .shopping!!!  :P ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 15, 2005, 11:14:59 PM
Uh-huh. I know what you meant.:P
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 15, 2005, 11:44:15 PM
Uh-huh. I know what you meant.:P

What did I meant?????
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 16, 2005, 03:03:20 PM
It's that southern hospitality thing . . . ;)

SMU--who is the cutie?!  :-*
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 16, 2005, 04:16:33 PM
He's the one I chose . . . ;)

It's that southern hospitality thing . . . ;)

SMU--who is the cutie?! :-*
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 16, 2005, 04:52:13 PM
He's the one I chose . . . ;)

It's that southern hospitality thing . . . ;)

SMU--who is the cutie?! :-*

uh oh!!!!!!!!! girl, do tell!!!!!!
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: smujd2007 on July 16, 2005, 05:20:46 PM
agitator, check your pms. ;)
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 16, 2005, 07:51:17 PM
agitator, check your pms. ;)


check yours  ;) :D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: CaliToD.C. on July 17, 2005, 10:34:02 AM
Does anybody know if its mandatory to attend both days of orientation on the 11th and 12th of August?

Peace
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 17, 2005, 10:46:24 AM
Does anybody know if its mandatory to attend both days of orientation on the 11th and 12th of August?

Peace

Good to see you Cali. I'm not sure. that is a good question. I would go however. I mean, if you don't have anything else to do I don't see why not. But, I never heard of 2 orientations. Perhaps blk knows. 
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: CaliToD.C. on July 17, 2005, 11:03:39 AM
Does anybody know if its mandatory to attend both days of orientation on the 11th and 12th of August?

Peace

Good to see you Cali. I'm not sure. that is a good question. I would go however. I mean, if you don't have anything else to do I don't see why not. But, I never heard of 2 orientations. Perhaps blk knows. 

I hope so HBeezy cause my time ould be better spent making DC my city. Feel me!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 17, 2005, 11:06:33 AM
Does anybody know if its mandatory to attend both days of orientation on the 11th and 12th of August?

Peace

Good to see you Cali. I'm not sure. that is a good question. I would go however. I mean, if you don't have anything else to do I don't see why not. But, I never heard of 2 orientations. Perhaps blk knows. 

I hope so HBeezy cause my time ould be better spent making DC my city. Feel me!

I know how you feel. What have you been up to in DC? HOw do you like the city? Looking forward to the HU experience?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 17, 2005, 11:11:23 AM
I'm not sure but I can find out before the evening is over..
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 17, 2005, 11:12:25 AM
Cali!!!  Nice to see you back.  Why did you become a stranger?  :'(
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 17, 2005, 11:14:01 AM
Cali!!!  Nice to see you back.  Why did you become a stranger?  :'(

Because he has a life and he is not as lame as you E >:(
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 17, 2005, 11:30:41 AM
Cali!!!  Nice to see you back.  Why did you become a stranger?  :'(

Because he has a life and he is not as lame as you E >:(

 ::) says the man who went through six identity crisises on board and had his ass dumped publically after his 'escapade' with Chuck
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 17, 2005, 11:40:20 AM
Cali!!!  Nice to see you back.  Why did you become a stranger?  :'(

Because he has a life and he is not as lame as you E >:(

 ::) says the man who went through six identity crisises on board and had his ass dumped publically after his 'escapade' with Chuck


I'm still having an identity crisis. I'm about to turn 32 so I want to find myself you know. I'm thinking about taking on your characteristics next. The chuck thing was personal. Hey, I understand women better now you know so get off my back! >:( 
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: CaliToD.C. on July 17, 2005, 12:28:21 PM

I know how you feel. What have you been up to in DC? HOw do you like the city? Looking forward to the HU experience?

Im still enjoying that good California livin but I cant wait to rep that HU!

Cali!!! Nice to see you back. Why did you become a stranger? :'(

Thanks for the welcome back!  ;D I just been chillin for the most part. whats good with u?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 17, 2005, 12:49:49 PM

I know how you feel. What have you been up to in DC? HOw do you like the city? Looking forward to the HU experience?

Im still enjoying that good California livin but I cant wait to rep that HU!

Cali!!! Nice to see you back. Why did you become a stranger? :'(

Thanks for the welcome back!  ;D I just been chillin for the most part. whats good with u?


I've been chillin real hard Cali. Sacramento sucks and I'll be in Baton Rouge on Aug. 1st. I can't wait to get out of here and go back to the dirty.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 18, 2005, 08:08:58 AM
Cali - We have to go to both days.  Oh - and aren't you glad that the first day begins at 7:30am!!! :o :o

As far as I know - there will be orientation and registration.  Then the pinning ceremony is the evening of the 12th.  You can invite whatever family and friends you have in the area to come a cry/be proud of you before they send you off to the wolves.

Does anybody know if its mandatory to attend both days of orientation on the 11th and 12th of August?

Peace
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 18, 2005, 11:19:17 AM
Roxie,

I'm seriously considering howard and I had a few questions I was hoping you could answer. How long after you applied did you find out about scholarship info? Also I heard you have to take 21 hours in the spring of your first year is this true? Where do most of the students seem to live? Also although I'm not a republican I do lean on the conservative side on several issues. Will I have a problem at howard because of it? Finally how much is the social life at the law school like the undergrad? Thank you for your time.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 18, 2005, 11:22:03 AM
I really have a feeling Howard is where I'm meant to be I just need a little more information.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 18, 2005, 11:50:44 AM
I received my scholarship award when I received my acceptance letter.  I was going for a specific scholarship and mentioned it in my addendum.

I don't know how many credits we take next spring - maybe you can ask HUSL2008 that one.

I also don't know how you are going to be affected by your political views.  That's another question for HUSL2008.  Maybe you should check out GMU - I could feel the conservativism in the air at their orientation!!! :o

As for the social life, I didn't go to HU undergrad - but I have heard the stories.  I had people at the law school tell me that they were still able to maintain social lives, but you seriously have to know how to prioritize your school duties and manage your time.  I will definitely be cutting back on my happy hour attendance - I won't have any $$ anyway!!!  I think it is safe to assume that since the students at the law school are little older and have a crazy workload, you don't have to worry about wild parties on Tuesday nights!!


Roxie,

I'm seriously considering howard and I had a few questions I was hoping you could answer. How long after you applied did you find out about scholarship info? Also I heard you have to take 21 hours in the spring of your first year is this true? Where do most of the students seem to live? Also although I'm not a republican I do lean on the conservative side on several issues. Will I have a problem at howard because of it? Finally how much is the social life at the law school like the undergrad? Thank you for your time.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 18, 2005, 01:42:49 PM
21 credit hours at Howard is true..it's not a myth... my girl came to my apt crying one day when she saw me chillin :D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 18, 2005, 02:05:01 PM
....why would they do that?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Bluenine on July 18, 2005, 02:06:44 PM
21 credit hours at Howard is true..it's not a myth... my girl came to my apt crying one day when she saw me chillin :D

Hopefully, this will be me lol  ;D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 18, 2005, 02:07:48 PM
ask them :D ... i think it's their tactic to weed out the fakers..

....why would they do that?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 18, 2005, 02:10:54 PM
Well George Mason doesn't seem like the best idea. that's almost as expensive as GW and doesn't offer thr job prospects in D.C. according to my research.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 18, 2005, 02:14:08 PM
They do the same thing at the Med School....to prepare you for the worst.  My bf said that cats from white med schools don't even know how to do half the dirty work he learned at HU.  Kinda reminds us that we have to be 300% better just to be considered equal.

....why would they do that?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 18, 2005, 02:16:59 PM
I'm new here and I have been noticing a disporportional amount of women commenting when howard is discussed. Also it seems there are a great deal more black women then men on this board, does the law industry mirror this? Where are all the black men?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 18, 2005, 02:18:11 PM
...my daddy went to georgetown medical school. >:(
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on July 18, 2005, 02:29:20 PM
I'm new here and I have been noticing a disporportional amount of women commenting when howard is discussed. Also it seems there are a great deal more black women then men on this board, does the law industry mirror this? Where are all the black men?

Hahaha, is that a trick question? Dude, chicks at Howard outnumber men by AT LEAST 3 to 1. Many insist it's more like 7 to 1.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: ckendall8kp on July 18, 2005, 02:30:14 PM
I'm new here and I have been noticing a disporportional amount of women commenting when howard is discussed. Also it seems there are a great deal more black women then men on this board, does the law industry mirror this? Where are all the black men?

check out the ratio of black men to black women at HUSL.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 18, 2005, 02:31:57 PM
in every law school except Yale there are more black females than black males
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 18, 2005, 02:51:36 PM
And I am sure he didn't have nurses telling him what the wouldn't do while rolling their eyes and popping their necks..... :-X

(oops - I didn't mean to type that)

...my daddy went to georgetown medical school. >:(
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 18, 2005, 03:27:55 PM
lol no my dad never had that problem. 3 to 1 female to male.....that would be a new experience....
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 18, 2005, 03:31:38 PM
So why can't we get more black men in law school? I go to a small white liberal arts school in the south and I think I have been in every diversity photo that school has ever produced.When I was in the army it was the same way. I could go an entire day without ever seeing any black people..it was disturbing at some points.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HBCU.EDU on July 19, 2005, 12:53:53 AM
http://www.blackcollegewire.org/culture/050718_pimp-scholar/

Way to go Howard. I'd like to see this kid put the P.I.M.P. *&^% on his resume ::)
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 19, 2005, 06:05:58 AM
....come on dude.Yes I'm glad Nelly and company took the time out to give back but i know a PR scheme when I see it. We all know what PIMP means and his tip drill video and lyrics don't reflect an iota of what was in that article. Now hustla, I can work with that one but PIMP, just call it what it is, maybe not a man who solicits clients for a prostitute, but definetly one who disrespects women. We as black people have enough problems in this area in our community without it being enouraged in avenues like this. Nelly should have been more socially responsible on this one. And no that would never find it's way on my resume.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2005, 07:51:17 AM
http://www.blackcollegewire.org/culture/050718_pimp-scholar/

Way to go Howard. I'd like to see this kid put the P.I.M.P. sh*t on his resume ::)

WHYYYY do I know him!? Too funny.

EDIT: I can't hate on Bryan though. $5,000? Dang, I'd take it.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 19, 2005, 12:52:55 PM
Roxie,

I'm seriously considering howard and I had a few questions I was hoping you could answer. How long after you applied did you find out about scholarship info? Also I heard you have to take 21 hours in the spring of your first year is this true? Where do most of the students seem to live? Also although I'm not a republican I do lean on the conservative side on several issues. Will I have a problem at howard because of it? Finally how much is the social life at the law school like the undergrad? Thank you for your time.

Response

Question 1: At the time of acceptance or after negotiating!

Question 2: Yes, you HAVE to take 21hrs your spring semester... it is NO joke, but hard work pays off.

Question 3: Most students live in the Metro DC area and Maryland (Silver Spring)

Question 4: That is the beauty about law school.. you are there to express your reviews... I have classmates who are Republicans... and we love dem just the same... So NO it would not be an issue... I am conservative myself on many issues...

Question 5: Social life can be like undergrad if you make it that way.  I had ZERO social life... and I mean ZERO!  I wanted to be at the top of the class and had to work hard to make it there...I am happy now cuz when I graduate, I can party as much as I want :)  But trust me there would a party every weekend... and the 3L Thursdays are a treat (at least that's what I hear)...

I hope my answers helped you out...

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 19, 2005, 01:15:01 PM
I am not looking forward to that. >:(  How did you keep your concentration when the weather was getting nice after a long winter.... :-[ :-[


Question 2: Yes, you HAVE to take 21hrs your spring semester... it is NO joke, but hard work pays off.

Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 19, 2005, 01:23:22 PM
I am not looking forward to that. >:(  How did you keep your concentration when the weather was getting nice after a long winter.... :-[ :-[


Question 2: Yes, you HAVE to take 21hrs your spring semester... it is NO joke, but hard work pays off.



I stayed in the LIBR. all the time... and I would take brief walks around campus when I am taking breaks..

But for the most part I stayed at the LIB...

Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 01:24:21 PM
shoulda gone to GW....  :D :D :D

just teasing...


I am not looking forward to that. >:(  How did you keep your concentration when the weather was getting nice after a long winter.... :-[ :-[


Question 2: Yes, you HAVE to take 21hrs your spring semester... it is NO joke, but hard work pays off.


Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 19, 2005, 01:24:33 PM
 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


I am not looking forward to that. >:(  How did you keep your concentration when the weather was getting nice after a long winter.... :-[ :-[


Question 2: Yes, you HAVE to take 21hrs your spring semester... it is NO joke, but hard work pays off.



I stayed in the LIBR. all the time... and I would take brief walks around campus when I am taking breaks..

But for the most part I stayed at the LIB...


Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 19, 2005, 01:25:47 PM
GW told me to kiss their a$$.  I ain't mad at them though.... HUSL was my first choice from day one.

shoulda gone to GW....  :D :D :D

just teasing...


I am not looking forward to that. >:(  How did you keep your concentration when the weather was getting nice after a long winter.... :-[ :-[


Question 2: Yes, you HAVE to take 21hrs your spring semester... it is NO joke, but hard work pays off.


Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on July 19, 2005, 01:27:17 PM
you're going to love Howard..trust me
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 19, 2005, 01:43:18 PM
That is what every black attorney I know tells me, no matter what school they went to, without me saying a word about my personal feelings about Howard....it's scary....

you're going to love Howard..trust me
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2005, 01:45:14 PM
That is what every black attorney I know tells me, no matter what school they went to, without me saying a word about my personal feelings about Howard....it's scary....

you're going to love Howard..trust me

That's cuz Howard is totally awesome!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 19, 2005, 01:46:28 PM
Where are you going to school Anna?  (Sorry if you posted already and I missed it.)

That is what every black attorney I know tells me, no matter what school they went to, without me saying a word about my personal feelings about Howard....it's scary....

you're going to love Howard..trust me

That's cuz Howard is totally awesome!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 19, 2005, 01:46:37 PM
That's true I have yet to meet one black individual, (and many white) who feel howard isn't a major exception to the ranking system.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2005, 01:54:48 PM
Where are you going to school Anna?  (Sorry if you posted already and I missed it.)

That is what every black attorney I know tells me, no matter what school they went to, without me saying a word about my personal feelings about Howard....it's scary....

you're going to love Howard..trust me

That's cuz Howard is totally awesome!

Howard  ;D But I'm in undergrad. I have SOOO much respect for that law school though. Sometimes I think I was personally involved in Brown v. Board just by being there. It's something that makes you proud. I have a couple friends in the Law School too. They're getting their JD/MBA.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 19, 2005, 02:02:33 PM
I have thought about doing a JD/MBA - but I can't comprehend anything on the GMAT.... :o

Where are you going to school Anna?  (Sorry if you posted already and I missed it.)

That is what every black attorney I know tells me, no matter what school they went to, without me saying a word about my personal feelings about Howard....it's scary....

you're going to love Howard..trust me

That's cuz Howard is totally awesome!

Howard  ;D But I'm in undergrad. I have SOOO much respect for that law school though. Sometimes I think I was personally involved in Brown v. Board just by being there. It's something that makes you proud. I have a couple friends in the Law School too. They're getting their JD/MBA.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2005, 02:06:47 PM
I have thought about doing a JD/MBA - but I can't comprehend anything on the GMAT.... :o

Where are you going to school Anna?  (Sorry if you posted already and I missed it.)

That is what every black attorney I know tells me, no matter what school they went to, without me saying a word about my personal feelings about Howard....it's scary....

you're going to love Howard..trust me

That's cuz Howard is totally awesome!

Howard  ;D But I'm in undergrad. I have SOOO much respect for that law school though. Sometimes I think I was personally involved in Brown v. Board just by being there. It's something that makes you proud. I have a couple friends in the Law School too. They're getting their JD/MBA.

I've been considering that too. The majority of people I speak to, however, say that you typically end up using only one of the degrees and that it's a little bit of a waste of time (not to mention money).

But Howard also has an awesome business school! (I'm an International Business/Finance major).
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 19, 2005, 02:33:22 PM
HUSL 2007 - Can you please say a few things about the 2 week Intensive Legal Methods class?  How to prepare, what it's like, what you got out of it, any other thoughts, etc.

THANKS!!!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 19, 2005, 09:00:28 PM
...The GMAT was way easier than the LSAT. Just some simple mathand business concepts. Also you can study for it moreso than the LSAT. I did econ in undergrad so I felt the MBA would be somewhat of a waste of money and distraction from law studies.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 20, 2005, 10:51:14 AM
For me, there is no such thing as easy math.  Seriously - it's embarrassing... :-X :-X

...The GMAT was way easier than the LSAT. Just some simple mathand business concepts. Also you can study for it moreso than the LSAT. I did econ in undergrad so I felt the MBA would be somewhat of a waste of money and distraction from law studies.
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: ImVinny! on July 20, 2005, 12:36:21 PM
Congrats on your full ride! That is soo awesome, and I wish you the best of luck in Law School!! ;D
Title: Re: Texas Southern just made me cry
Post by: blkhtw on July 20, 2005, 12:50:48 PM
Thank you very much. Thank you again to all the well wishers.

Congrats on your full ride! That is soo awesome, and I wish you the best of luck in Law School!! ;D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 20, 2005, 02:19:08 PM
HUSL 2007 - Can you please say a few things about the 2 week Intensive Legal Methods class?  How to prepare, what it's like, what you got out of it, any other thoughts, etc.

THANKS!!!

After a grueling 21 Hrs second semester first year... I must say that I hated the INTENSE Legal Methods program...

I would read Getting To Maybe and an exam taking book (can't remember the name of the book - well I think it has something like 8 secrets) by Charles Whitebread. 

I would read those before coming to school...

But most importantly... PLEASE SLEEP!  Seriously... I am currently starting to ween myself off of too much sleep this summer.. so I can get back to rare form of having 4 hrs sleep a night... As they say at Howard... if you have getting more than 5 hrs sleep... (I think Broussard said 3 hrs) you are doing something wrong...

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 21, 2005, 08:03:57 AM
I am reading Getting to Maybe and 8 Secrets to Success on Law School Exams.  It is very hard to concentrate on that though....my new Harry Potter book is much more interesting!!

I'm sleepy just thinking about next semester.....

HUSL 2007 - Can you please say a few things about the 2 week Intensive Legal Methods class?  How to prepare, what it's like, what you got out of it, any other thoughts, etc.

THANKS!!!

After a grueling 21 Hrs second semester first year... I must say that I hated the INTENSE Legal Methods program...

I would read Getting To Maybe and an exam taking book (can't remember the name of the book - well I think it has something like 8 secrets) by Charles Whitebread. 

I would read those before coming to school...

But most importantly... PLEASE SLEEP!  Seriously... I am currently starting to ween myself off of too much sleep this summer.. so I can get back to rare form of having 4 hrs sleep a night... As they say at Howard... if you have getting more than 5 hrs sleep... (I think Broussard said 3 hrs) you are doing something wrong...

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: kloud9nupe on July 22, 2005, 02:10:08 PM
Is there a cafeteria available on the law school campus? I know during the open house we had lunch in a dining area, but I couldn’t conclude if it actually served and prepared food.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 22, 2005, 04:02:27 PM
Is there a cafeteria available on the law school campus? I know during the open house we had lunch in a dining area, but I couldn’t conclude if it actually served and prepared food.

Si Senor.  The Cafe does prepare and serve food.  In addition to eating you also have wireless internet... (wonderful .. because you would most likely still have work to prepare before classes begin :)  Also, we have Soul Food Thursdays...!!!!  The day I live for!

Oh, I won't be back the first week of classes... I need a vacation.  I worked at a firm all summer long :( 

But be safe and stay SANE!

HUSL2007
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: HUSL2007 on July 24, 2005, 11:12:23 AM
If you want to get your t-shirts before coming to school... I suggest that you do! 

Just a reminder, you can still order "I'm A HUSL'A" T-Shirts ...
 
Shirts are available at the following website:
http://www.ummah1421.com/husl/
 
For now, shirts come in Red and Blue, sizes X-Small to 2X.
Check the site regularly for new items soon to come (Long-sleeve shirts, sweats, etc.)
 
To place an order you must use a credit card and have a registered account with PayPal.  If you do not have a PayPal account, follow the directions at checkout to create one.
 
****Shipping cost may be added based on quantity****

For customizations and inquries please contact us at
HUSLwear2007@msn.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on July 24, 2005, 02:18:24 PM
Soul Food Thursdays?!!? YUM!!

Those t-shirts are cute.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 25, 2005, 07:08:44 PM
ooohh that doesn't sound healthy
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: kloud9nupe on July 31, 2005, 12:03:47 PM
Has everyone that is an incoming 1L at Howard completed their immunizations/health form yet? I need a couple of shots so I will try to go to the health center this week.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: John Galt on July 31, 2005, 01:04:00 PM
That is what every black attorney I know tells me, no matter what school they went to, without me saying a word about my personal feelings about Howard....it's scary....

you're going to love Howard..trust me

That's cuz Howard is totally awesome!

Um...howard is garbage and the fact that bryan won that scholarship confirms this  :P Damn school of business.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on July 31, 2005, 01:57:23 PM
That is what every black attorney I know tells me, no matter what school they went to, without me saying a word about my personal feelings about Howard....it's scary....

you're going to love Howard..trust me

That's cuz Howard is totally awesome!

Um...howard is garbage and the fact that bryan won that scholarship confirms this  :P Damn school of business.

Don't be jeally. The School of Business runs things! You Arts and Sciences kids wish you could rock a suit the way we do  :P
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: GJU1003 on July 31, 2005, 06:53:46 PM
so my health form will not be completed by the time orientation starts.... How badly will this affect me?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: John Galt on August 01, 2005, 12:52:34 AM
so my health form will not be completed by the time orientation starts.... How badly will this affect me?

depends on what kinda diseases you have.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 01, 2005, 07:39:27 AM
I turned mine in, but all my immunizations are expired.  I guess I'll stop by the Health Center later this week.  I am scared of needles though!!

Nobody else I know going to ls is getting immunizations!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on August 01, 2005, 07:47:43 AM
Roxie it's a requirement for all DC schools.. did you attend a DC university for undergrad?

GJU I think that they'll give you a couple of weeks after school starts to get it done however if you don't have it done by the deadline... you won't be able to attend classes... go to the Student health center to get them done.. I believe that it's only two shots...nothing major
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: One Step Ahead on August 01, 2005, 08:08:19 AM
Roxie it's a requirement for all DC schools.. did you attend a DC university for undergrad?

GJU I think that they'll give you a couple of weeks after school starts to get it done however if you don't have it done by the deadline... you won't be able to attend classes... go to the Student health center to get them done.. I believe that it's only two shots...nothing major

good morning reign and Howard people
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on August 01, 2005, 09:37:04 AM
I turned mine in, but all my immunizations are expired.  I guess I'll stop by the Health Center later this week.  I am scared of needles though!!

Nobody else I know going to ls is getting immunizations!

OMG, prepare yourself. The lines are horrendous.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 01, 2005, 09:39:41 AM
Good morning ya'll!!

I am not surprised that the lines will be terrible.  I am going to try to get there Thursday morning when they open.

I didn't go to to a DC school for undergrad/grad, but I went to high school in DC and I remember the fiasco of having to get my immunizations done.  I don't want any shots!!! :'(


I turned mine in, but all my immunizations are expired.  I guess I'll stop by the Health Center later this week.  I am scared of needles though!!

Nobody else I know going to ls is getting immunizations!

OMG, prepare yourself. The lines are horrendous.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on August 01, 2005, 09:40:36 AM
Good morning ya'll!!

I am not surprised that the lines will be terrible.  I am going to try to get there Thursday morning when they open.

I didn't go to to a DC school for undergrad/grad, but I went to high school in DC and I remember the fiasco of having to get my immunizations done.  I don't want any shots!!! :'(


I turned mine in, but all my immunizations are expired.  I guess I'll stop by the Health Center later this week.  I am scared of needles though!!

Nobody else I know going to ls is getting immunizations!

OMG, prepare yourself. The lines are horrendous.

Yeah and they don't even give you a loolipop afterwards.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06 - let the festivities begin
Post by: HUSL2007 on August 03, 2005, 10:24:22 AM
If you ever wonder about events at the HUSL... well it has officially started...
 
THE CLASS OF 2006 WILL BE HOSTING A MIXER FOR ALL HOWARD LAW, DENTAL AND MEDICAL STUDENTS ON THE EVENING OF
 
SEPTEMBER 9th.     
 
 (other schools will be invited to attend as well.)
 
MORE INFO TO FOLLOW


I expect to see NONE of you all there... you should be in the LIBR studying... don't get caught up LOL!


Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 04, 2005, 09:31:02 PM
I went to the Student Health Center this morning to check on my immunizations.  There was no wait, no line and all of the ladies there were very polite.  They told me that I don't have to get them yet....I need to wait until I get all my paperwork together -- I am assuming that will happen next week.  I only need a tetanus/diptheria shot and it costs $18.  Altoghether going to the health center this morning was a good experience.  I am afraid that when school starts though, it is going to be off the CHAIN!!!

HUSL2007 -- I won't be at the mixer!!!  LOL!!!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: kloud9nupe on August 04, 2005, 09:53:59 PM
I went Wednesday for the Tb, but the nurse informed me that I didn't meet the criteria for getting a TB shot. Luckily, she administered the other shots that I needed on that same day. I think they had a policy of doing Tb on Wednesdays and everything else on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Starting on next week, they will do everything everyday. It was not crowded. I got in around 8:45 and was out by 9:30. The paperwork took the longest. Before I got my shots, they said they needed some kind of proof that I had paid my student account. Since I didn't have that type of info, they let me slide with a financial aid award letter.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 05, 2005, 05:24:52 AM
Oh -- I didn't have any proof either - so I just decided to wait until next week after Orientation.  Maybe I'll go back with my letter too.  Good idea.

Did you have to pay for anything?

I went Wednesday for the Tb, but the nurse informed me that I didn't meet the criteria for getting a TB shot. Luckily, she administered the other shots that I needed on that same day. I think they had a policy of doing Tb on Wednesdays and everything else on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Starting on next week, they will do everything everyday. It was not crowded. I got in around 8:45 and was out by 9:30. The paperwork took the longest. Before I got my shots, they said they needed some kind of proof that I had paid my student account. Since I didn't have that type of info, they let me slide with a financial aid award letter.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: kloud9nupe on August 05, 2005, 10:17:42 AM
I didn't have to pay for anything right on the spot, but it will be added to your account. The prices are:

Td $18.00
MMR $30.00
Hep B $30.00/dose
PPD $4.00
Varicella $41.00

Good chance that you will not have to get all of these.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 05, 2005, 10:24:32 AM
I'm only getting the tetnus shot.  They can keep the rest of those!!! :o
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Nemesis on August 05, 2005, 10:27:47 AM
I remember when I was "coming to America" (HA!) and I had to get ALLLLLL those shots. For some reason the doctor didn't see why I couldn't get them done all on the same day to. He split them half/half on each arm. Ouch.

Needless to say I was  >:( ed.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: John Galt on August 05, 2005, 12:05:28 PM
nope, i'll be there. the dental school kids know how to party.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 10, 2005, 07:23:59 AM
Does anyone know if Howard offers Health Insurance to law students? The Intensive Legal methods class thats for 2 weeks, does anyone know what time it is? or is it an all day thing?? thanks :)
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: kloud9nupe on August 10, 2005, 08:38:36 AM
I believe it is from 10-1 everyday.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: blk_reign on August 10, 2005, 10:20:49 AM


i'm pretty sure that they offer student health insurance.. as it's a requirement to have it in DC

Does anyone know if Howard offers Health Insurance to law students? The Intensive Legal methods class thats for 2 weeks, does anyone know what time it is? or is it an all day thing?? thanks :)
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 10, 2005, 10:42:12 AM
oh ok, thanks guys! :)

Well after talking to the Dean of admissions looks like i'll know for sure tomorrow whether or not I get to offically join you guys as 1L's at Howard.
PLEASE LET SOMEONE NOT SHOW UP TO ORIENTATION SO THAT I MAY ATTEND!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 10, 2005, 04:54:32 PM
HUSL offers health insurance.  The info was in the packet of forms to fill out that came from the Dean of Student Affairs.

Intensive Legal Methods is from 10am (thank God) to 1pm.  Then we have workshops every day from 1:30-2:30 every day.  You can print out the full schedule from the website.

Good luck on getting a spot tomorrow Cam.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

oh ok, thanks guys! :)

Well after talking to the Dean of admissions looks like i'll know for sure tomorrow whether or not I get to offically join you guys as 1L's at Howard.
PLEASE LET SOMEONE NOT SHOW UP TO ORIENTATION SO THAT I MAY ATTEND!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: CaliToD.C. on August 10, 2005, 04:56:38 PM
HUSL offers health insurance.  The info was in the packet of forms to fill out that came from the Dean of Student Affairs.

Intensive Legal Methods is from 10am (thank God) to 1pm.  Then we have workshops every day from 1:30-2:30 every day.  You can print out the full schedule from the website.

Good luck on getting a spot tomorrow Cam.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

oh ok, thanks guys! :)

Well after talking to the Dean of admissions looks like i'll know for sure tomorrow whether or not I get to offically join you guys as 1L's at Howard.
PLEASE LET SOMEONE NOT SHOW UP TO ORIENTATION SO THAT I MAY ATTEND!!!! ;D

Those workshops aren't mandatory are they?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 10, 2005, 05:11:50 PM
I don't think all of them are.  There is one about parenting as a law student and debt management that I don't plan to go to.  I think I will go to the rest though....it's only an hour.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 10, 2005, 08:01:42 PM
Thanks Roxie! :)

Just curious is anyone planning on working during the 2 weeks of intensive legal methods class? Is that even allowed? I ask because if I am accepted, I would have to leave my job on such short notice. But i suppose this late in the game, theres no way i could give the standard 2 week notice.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 11, 2005, 04:40:52 PM
Hey! good news! i'm in! ill see you guys at orientation tomorrow! what happened today at orientation???
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 11, 2005, 07:45:35 PM
It was the most disorganized, worthless experience that I have ever been involved in EVER!!!  I cannot believe that a law school would conduct itself in such a disheveled, unprofessional manner.  I was completely APPALLED at the absurdities of the entire day.  I am NOT wasting my time by going tomorrow.  I am going to the Pinning Ceremony -- that's it.  The rest of my day will be spent in my air-conditioned apartment.

That being said -- I met some very intelligent people in my section and in my orientation group and was VERY impressed with Assistant Dean/Professor Dark and Dean Schmoke.  Those are the only things that got me through the day today.  I am tempted to be on the Orientation Committee just to try to prevent the atrocity that was disguised as an Orientation today. I have never experienced such a debacle in my entire college careeer (and I have 2 degrees from PWI's).**

**I still love Howard though and I am going to look past the disaster that I experienced today.  I just think that it is sad that HBCU's don't come into the 21st century and conduct business effeciently and expeditiously.  It is ridiculous that our HBCUs have a reputation for having an awful administration when modern technology can prevent all of the DRAMA that I went through today!!!!  It is pathetic and inexcusable!!!  I am PISSED!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 11, 2005, 08:38:08 PM
wow! im not to surprised to hear that,coming from HBCU myself. o well, i can only hope tomorrow is better. It is dissapointing to hear though. i was doubting even going to the pinning ceremony really. cuz there's a 4 hour break from 1-5pm i believe, what i am supposed to do for all that time?!?!?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 11, 2005, 08:44:38 PM
U won't have a break from 1-5.  You will be spending your day at the main campus to get a Student ID -- and believe me -- It is going to take ALL DAY!!!  My friends that went to Howard, Hampton and Morgan were laughing at me bcuz I was so outraged by the foolishness that I experienced today!!

Put on a wife-beater and some booty shorts and get ready to beat the heat tomorrow.  Since you didn't go to Orientation today, you need to go tomorrow to register (why in the HELL were we registering on paper in 2005!?!??!!) and to get your ID.  It is going to be damn near 100 degrees in DC tomorrow.  Just be prepared to be patient and deal with all of the ridiculousness that you will experience tomorrow.  I fenagled/flirted my way into getting my ID today -- thank GOD that I had the wherewithall to do that....I would probably go OFF on somebody tomorrow.  It is going to be too hot for that sh*t!!!!

wow! im not to surprised to hear that,coming from HBCU myself. o well, i can only hope tomorrow is better. It is dissapointing to hear though. i was doubting even going to the pinning ceremony really. cuz there's a 4 hour break from 1-5pm i believe, what i am supposed to do for all that time?!?!?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 11, 2005, 08:50:37 PM
Yup, your friends were right! i remeber my undergrad years at morgan! espeically the fin aid line, my god you could be in that line like all day and STILL get nothing accomplished! the lady i spoke to said we had to dress up for the ceremony, but im not bringin a change fo cloths! thats crazy, guess ill try to find something in between.
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 11, 2005, 08:54:22 PM
Just do something business casual.  It is a pretty important ceremony.  As always, it is better to be overdreesed than underdressed.

What Section are you in?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 11, 2005, 09:02:40 PM
i dunno yet! guess i'll find out tomorrow. well i have dress that is pretty nice, not really formal or anything. the lady laughed on the phone about the people weating suits, considering how hot it was!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 11, 2005, 09:08:02 PM
My group leader said shirt and tie is the minimum for men.  I am just going to wear a dress considering that this ceremony is OUTSIDE (who schedules ANYTHING outside in August in DC?!?!?!?).  It's okay though -- I am just going to make sure that I have some ice-water and some cold washcloths for my old parents!!!

Seriously -- I am going to stop complaining about Howard. I am looking forward to my studies there....but today was truly off the HOOK!!!!!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 11, 2005, 09:34:30 PM
Oh -- I was just informed that being dragged through the dirt by Howard administration is a "character building experience".  Puhleeze -- spare me!!!!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on August 11, 2005, 11:49:52 PM
Roxie,
Please try to usher in change at Howard.  I lay it, had I not seen hints of disorganization and other things at orientation, I would have been there with ya.  That's real.  I was all about Howard but it seemed like it would have led to a bad experience for me.  But shoot, if Howard gets the online system going like the majority schools, they will save both money and be more student-friendly.  I do know that it isn't just Howard, its most HBCUs.  I wouldn't mind going down to Orlando, FL to help out FAMU deal with their problems.  Which are way more serious than Howard's orientation.  Howard is lightyears ahead of FAMU.  You are truly blessed compared to them!!!  Good luck!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 12, 2005, 08:06:52 AM
I would never let my experience at Orientation or the Open House change my opinion of the law school as a whole.  I am confident that I will get an excellent legal education and will enjoy my experience (although I am already dreading the amount of work that I am going to have to do!! :o)  I am just not used to this bcuz my undergrad/grad school was SOOOOO organized and there is no excuse that Howard, and all black colleges/universities for that matter, is not run efficiently.

My bf was telling me that people have tried to make changes, but the changes are met with so much resistance that nothing is really ever implemented.  Plus, University jobs are like guh'ment jobs....you have to basically kill somebody on the job to get fired.  So you get people working there that are comfortable, have attitude problems, refuse to learn anything new and are complacent in their jobs and there are no consequences.  The cycle continues.....

I did have a very good experience at the Health Center today.  I am definitely keeping a positive attitude....that is the only way to deal with things like this.....
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: monimone on August 12, 2005, 09:53:31 AM
I meant open house.  Make it happen up there in D.C.  You'll do well!!!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 12, 2005, 09:08:40 PM
I found out i'm in section 3 except for one class, i'm oddly in section 2 for some reason. I thought the experience at the health center was pretty funny today. There was one lady in particular who kept going off on everyone!

What section are you in? I thought the pin ceremony was ok, I thought there would be more to it, but i guess not. I'm excited about starting the whole law school experience and am so far really looking forward to it. That might change after a few classes though!


Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: CaliToD.C. on August 15, 2005, 04:59:28 PM
What did everybody think about the first day of class? Mine was pretty damn traumatizing!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Roxie on August 15, 2005, 05:21:30 PM
Oh NO Cali!!!  What happened!?!?!??!  What section are you in?  I had a really nice day, class was cool -- PM me if you don't want to put your business in the street.

It has really turned out to be a nice evening.  I am chilling on my balcony doing my homework.  I LOVE wireless internet!!!
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: cam108 on August 15, 2005, 07:49:41 PM
My first day was pretty tame. We had a assignment to turn in and that was about it. Our professor is really laid back and tends to ramble a bit. He doesn't randomly call on people so thats nice and hes more than willing to asnwer questions.

Yeah, what happened Cali? Which professor do you have?
Title: Re: Howard 05-06
Post by: Victor on August 15, 2005, 10:34:57 PM
Cali what happened on your first day?

Title: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: TruOne on November 14, 2005, 02:44:47 PM
Anyhow, I'm in a good mood because as of this day I have transmitted 7 applications, I still have 3 more left to send off. (Thank you to everyone who helpled me with my PS)

I'm pissed cuz I am supposed to receive a Fee waiver from LSAC as long as I apply online. I had NOOOOO problem with every other school I applied to. They granted my waiver and transmitted with no problem.

However

Good ole, Howard, wanted be difficult and jacked me for $60. I felt like I was Tyrese in "baby boy" gettin' hemm'd up by Ving Rhames,

"Go ahead, call yo pre-law advisor!"

I called LSAC, and they practically told me, "Tough break n-word, there's always FUBU."

Nah, really the just told me to call Howard and see if they would reinburse me, but I know that's a battle I already lost because McGhee AND his secretary basically told me, "No."

*sigh* so all I can do is chalk that up to the game. I know one thing, let me get a rejection letter, I'm headin' over to Howard's Facultay Parking lot with a sock full of qaurters, and I'm gonna "politely" ask for my money back.

Dang Law School is makin' me Mililtant . . . .or maybe it's the Boondocks.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 14, 2005, 03:09:04 PM
Hey, just to piggy back off of your frustration with Howard!!!  Have they requested yoru LSDAS report?  I applied with them...ooooh its been over a month...and they haven't requested anything.  I talked to the Dean at the Houston forum and he said that this should have been done.  Hmmm....what's going on over at HUSL?  Or shouild I just be patient??
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: seu2002 on November 16, 2005, 07:18:13 AM
newbies!   we love newbies!  welcome!!


hahaha, sorry about your messed up situation, TruOne but at least you got a few fee waivers and it didnt cost you much to apply.  Unlike some other ppl who are applying to 47 schools and paying for every penny of it!!!

What other schools are you applying to, Slow Blues and TruOne?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: malle_333 on November 16, 2005, 07:21:50 AM
with a 2.82gpa and a score of 148 on the lsat, do yal think i have a chance at howard law
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 07:29:16 AM
with a 2.82gpa and a score of 148 on the lsat, do yal think i have a chance at howard law

Nope.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 07:32:21 AM
Just to add my perspective...Howard is trifiling. Their website said they start accepting in October. I went complete early last month. I have heard nothing from them since. Then I went back to their webpage and it hasn't been updated since 2002. At this point I'm seriously contemplating withdrawing from Howard. I'm not sure if I want another 3 years of this mess.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 07:36:22 AM

um..yeah u do.. do you have any soft factors? i know someone that got accepted with very similar scores....they didn't get offered any money however

with a 2.82gpa and a score of 148 on the lsat, do yal think i have a chance at howard law

Nope.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 07:42:56 AM
In reference to Malle, I think that you will be ok with those numbers depending on how everything else looks.  Good luck to you b/c I have applied there as well.  As far as John Galt, I am feeling the same frustration as you are with HU.  Part of it is just me being anxious, but the other part is wondering what is going on.  I met the dean at the Houston forum and he said they had already started requesting reports and reviewing (this was 2 weeks ago).  I'm still very interested, but also worried.....
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Slow Blues on November 16, 2005, 07:52:53 AM
with a 2.82gpa and a score of 148 on the lsat, do yal think i have a chance at howard law

You have a good shot but it's no guarantee by any means. You're right at their 25th percentile for GPA and LSAT.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 08:09:36 AM
malle according to their acceptences from last year you have a chance, although slim you still have a decent shot check out the lsac site and the school descriptions they provide most schools have the # of applicants applied and # accepted with a rnge of gpa's and lsat score for last year's cycle listed....

the fact is that nobody but HU admissions can tell you if you'll get in and unless you're above their 75% mark noone on this board can tell you if you have a great or poor chance either

also i'd like to officially put out there that this board as well as others gives too much weight to urm status and i'm saying this b/c i actually know from experience that adcomms aren't always tagging on 7-10 pts to one's lsat score edit: if this was the case then i would have gotten into a few schools last year right off the bat and not off of the wl..in fact more than a few, although it may be a totally different game at t14's b/c of a lack of urm applicants i'm pretty sure it's not the case for the rest
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 08:14:58 AM
malle according to their acceptences from last year you have a chance, although slim you still have a decent shot check out the lsac site and the school descriptions they provide most schools have the # of applicants applied and # accepted with a rnge of gpa's and lsat score for last year's cycle listed....

the fact is that nobody but HU admissions can tell you if you'll get in and unless you're above their 75% mark noone on this board can tell you if you have a great or poor chance either

also i'd like to officially put out there that this board as well as others gives too much weight to urm status and i'm saying this b/c i actually know from experience that adcomms aren't always tagging on 7-10 pts to one's lsat score

I would assume that if you can infer that you have a great shot if you are above the 75th in BOTH areas, you can also claim that one has a poor shot if below the 25th in both areas. That was just my take on it.

If you're male, you have a shot...if the person is not male, I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 08:21:41 AM
get over yourself jg, you don't know malle's soft factors or that malle may be a legacy, hell for all we know malle could be a hermaphodite and choosing a "sex" could go both ways depending on how malle is feeling the day he/she fills out the app
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 09:04:30 AM
get over yourself jg, you don't know malle's soft factors or that malle may be a legacy, hell for all we know malle could be a hermaphodite and choosing a "sex" could go both ways depending on how malle is feeling the day he/she fills out the app

Can't handle someone disagreeing with your perspective? Chill out, holmes.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 09:13:18 AM
lex, just out of curiousity, are you currently in law school?  I'm somewhat new so I am trying to understand all perspectives on this board.  Most are from people who, like me, are applicants waiting, but most importantly the ones I pay close attention to are ones who went through this in years past.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 09:51:30 AM
intent i applied last year and was going to defer for a year, but decided to decline it and reapply this cycle....and jg it's the fact that you're so definite with your opinion that gets me going, i mean what if malle decided not to apply b/c of your great advice?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 11:28:07 AM
then s/he would have saved $60 and applied somewhere with a better chance.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 11:35:25 AM
and then miss out on the possibility of getting into a school that might have suited him or her?? i would think you would be a supporter of ppl taking chances with schools...just makes me glad that i have yet to use this site to gage (sp?) what my chances are
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 11:58:11 AM
and then miss out on the possibility of getting into a school that might have suited him or her?? i would think you would be a supporter of ppl taking chances with schools...just makes me glad that i have yet to use this site to gage (sp?) what my chances are


I rather give people the straight truth than to tell them what they want to hear. I think people appreciate when people are straight with them...a 148 isn't going to cut it at howard anymore. Its ok if you have a different opinion on the matter, lex. I mean, in the end it is the person's decision...but surely you can agree that based on the person's numbers, admission to howard is extremely unlikely.

Also, the male vs female distinction. I pointed it out because Howard wants males...they desparately need males. They don't need more women. Like 64% of the people at howard law are women. So they be much more inclined to accept lower than usual scores from a male than female. Didn't mean to offend you.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Slow Blues on November 16, 2005, 12:04:41 PM
I think JG was merely being candid about malle's chances. I don't think he was trying to tear anybody down.

Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 12:07:05 PM
hey.. if you really want to go to an HBCU you may also consider applying to Texas Southern and Southern University Baton Rouge...they tend to accept lower numbers than Howard Law...
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 12:11:16 PM
you didn't offend me and i do agree that if malle is male he will have a greater chance of getting in considering his numbers, and while lsac #'s show that malle has an 8% chance of getting in on  numbers alone he/she still have a chance......i'm just really frustrated with all of the "what r my chances" threads b/c there are some ppl out there that will take what posters have to say literally like it's gospel...and from my experience in applying nothing is for certain....but we'll all get to check that part out in the months to come

i also apologize jg, didn't mean to bite you head off but the nope was kinda well damn words go a long, which you already know
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Slow Blues on November 16, 2005, 12:28:46 PM
and then miss out on the possibility of getting into a school that might have suited him or her?? i would think you would be a supporter of ppl taking chances with schools...just makes me glad that i have yet to use this site to gage (sp?) what my chances are


I rather give people the straight truth than to tell them what they want to hear. I think people appreciate when people are straight with them...a 148 isn't going to cut it at howard anymore. Its ok if you have a different opinion on the matter, lex. I mean, in the end it is the person's decision...but surely you can agree that based on the person's numbers, admission to howard is extremely unlikely.

Also, the male vs female distinction. I pointed it out because Howard wants males...they desparately need males. They don't need more women. Like 64% of the people at howard law are women. So they be much more inclined to accept lower than usual scores from a male than female. Didn't mean to offend you.

I noticed that at every single law school I looked at, from Yale on down, black females outnumber males by anywhere from 1.5 to 1 to as much as 2+ to 1. That is really discouraging.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lawstudent3 on November 16, 2005, 12:30:38 PM
Why do females outnumber males so much so at Howard?  I never realized this was the case.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 12:33:08 PM
discouraging to say the least......

I noticed that at every single law school I looked at, from Yale on down, black females outnumber males by anywhere from 1.5 to 1 to as much as 2+ to 1. That is really discouraging.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 12:44:03 PM
more black females are applying (and attending) to law school than black males..all across the board.. Howard wouldn't be any different just because it's an HBCU...

Why do females outnumber males so much so at Howard?  I never realized this was the case.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lawstudent3 on November 16, 2005, 12:46:47 PM
more black females are applying (and attending) to law school than black males..all across the board.. Howard wouldn't be any different just because it's an HBCU...

I see--never realized this.  Interesting...
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lawstudent3 on November 16, 2005, 12:50:17 PM
Last I heard, there are more black men in jail than college. It's a major, major problem.

If that's the case it's definitely a major problem.  Sad.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 01:29:23 PM
This is all very interesting to me.  As a male, I am happy that they might need me, but also discouraged that more brothers are on "lock" and not enrolled in college.  Has anyone visited Howard?  My only interaction was with the dean and a graduate who works here in Houston.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 01:51:54 PM
This is all very interesting to me.  As a male, I am happy that they might need me, but also discouraged that more brothers are on "lock" and not enrolled in college.  Has anyone visited Howard?  My only interaction was with the dean and a graduate who works here in Houston.

I go to Howard. The law school is nice, library fantastic, dorms are ok, people are awesome, administration sucks.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 01:56:08 PM
Thanks for that opinion.  From what I hear from other people the administration can make or break the law school (whether its Howard or any other LS).  I think once I hear from them I'll plan a visit up there and be ready to ask some deep questions.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 16, 2005, 02:10:09 PM
and then miss out on the possibility of getting into a school that might have suited him or her?? i would think you would be a supporter of ppl taking chances with schools...just makes me glad that i have yet to use this site to gage (sp?) what my chances are


I rather give people the straight truth than to tell them what they want to hear. I think people appreciate when people are straight with them...a 148 isn't going to cut it at howard anymore. Its ok if you have a different opinion on the matter, lex. I mean, in the end it is the person's decision...but surely you can agree that based on the person's numbers, admission to howard is extremely unlikely.

Also, the male vs female distinction. I pointed it out because Howard wants males...they desparately need males. They don't need more women. Like 64% of the people at howard law are women. So they be much more inclined to accept lower than usual scores from a male than female. Didn't mean to offend you.

I noticed that at every single law school I looked at, from Yale on down, black females outnumber males by anywhere from 1.5 to 1 to as much as 2+ to 1. That is really discouraging.

in Yale's 1L class black males outnumber black females 2:1
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: A. on November 16, 2005, 02:17:27 PM
and then miss out on the possibility of getting into a school that might have suited him or her?? i would think you would be a supporter of ppl taking chances with schools...just makes me glad that i have yet to use this site to gage (sp?) what my chances are


I rather give people the straight truth than to tell them what they want to hear. I think people appreciate when people are straight with them...a 148 isn't going to cut it at howard anymore. Its ok if you have a different opinion on the matter, lex. I mean, in the end it is the person's decision...but surely you can agree that based on the person's numbers, admission to howard is extremely unlikely.

Also, the male vs female distinction. I pointed it out because Howard wants males...they desparately need males. They don't need more women. Like 64% of the people at howard law are women. So they be much more inclined to accept lower than usual scores from a male than female. Didn't mean to offend you.

I noticed that at every single law school I looked at, from Yale on down, black females outnumber males by anywhere from 1.5 to 1 to as much as 2+ to 1. That is really discouraging.

in Yale's 1L class black males outnumber black females 2:1

Our class is not representative, although YLS does have a better male:female ratio than most schools.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: A. on November 16, 2005, 02:19:56 PM
more black females are applying (and attending) to law school than black males..all across the board.. Howard wouldn't be any different just because it's an HBCU...

I see--never realized this.  Interesting...

Last I heard, there are more black men in jail than college. It's a major, major problem.

It should be interesting to see where the race is in about 25 years.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 02:25:33 PM
w&l's 1L class has a 5:1 black male to female ratio....











but there's only 6 black ppl in their entire 1L class
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 16, 2005, 02:25:49 PM
and then miss out on the possibility of getting into a school that might have suited him or her?? i would think you would be a supporter of ppl taking chances with schools...just makes me glad that i have yet to use this site to gage (sp?) what my chances are


I rather give people the straight truth than to tell them what they want to hear. I think people appreciate when people are straight with them...a 148 isn't going to cut it at howard anymore. Its ok if you have a different opinion on the matter, lex. I mean, in the end it is the person's decision...but surely you can agree that based on the person's numbers, admission to howard is extremely unlikely.

Also, the male vs female distinction. I pointed it out because Howard wants males...they desparately need males. They don't need more women. Like 64% of the people at howard law are women. So they be much more inclined to accept lower than usual scores from a male than female. Didn't mean to offend you.

I noticed that at every single law school I looked at, from Yale on down, black females outnumber males by anywhere from 1.5 to 1 to as much as 2+ to 1. That is really discouraging.

in Yale's 1L class black males outnumber black females 2:1

Our class is not representative, although YLS does have a better male:female ratio than most schools.

speaking of the devil!
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: A. on November 16, 2005, 02:27:17 PM
Que?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 02:29:48 PM
oh man those six white people are mad about those six blacks taking their seats... :'(

w&l's 1L class has a 5:1 black male to female ratio....











but there's only 6 black ppl in their entire 1L class
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 02:32:01 PM
Those are some interesting ratios.  I was looking on Yale's BLSA website and they do seem to have a lot of males.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: shaz on November 16, 2005, 03:06:23 PM


I go to Howard. The law school is nice, library fantastic, dorms are ok, people are awesome, administration sucks.
[/quote]

truer words have never been spoken.

what the he11 is up with that web site? How old/outdated is that? it's too sad.
why is it so hard to navigate? you have to 'search' for everything. it's like they are afraid you might find something that would deter you from applying.

i 'found' that they give 60 scholarships? what the he11! and thats not even full rides. 5000 to full. where is the love?

experiment 1: will jg get any $ from HUSL? will he be one of the lucky 60? how much will he get? once we have this data, we can compare it to HYS. who will show the brotha-man the most love?

experiment 2: at what gpa/lsat point totals do you get dinged by HUSL and yet still get into one of the top 30 or so.

experiment 3: at what gpa/lsat point totals do you get money from the top 30 and none from HUSL. 



and i still want to go there? YES. maybe i could change it for the better.
if i were dean of HUSL, the first thing i would do would be......
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: malle_333 on November 16, 2005, 03:15:52 PM
i'm actually a female, i haven't taken the lsat yet, that just the score i keep getting on my practice test(im takin it in 3wks).  My soft factor is that i've basically worked full time while in undergrad!

does any one have any advise on pulling my score up, i feel like i've done everything i can do!!! :(
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: A. on November 16, 2005, 03:18:12 PM


I go to Howard. The law school is nice, library fantastic, dorms are ok, people are awesome, administration sucks.
[/quote]

truer words have never been spoken.

what the he11 is up with that web site? How old/outdated is that? it's too sad.
why is it so hard to navigate? you have to 'search' for everything. it's like they are afraid you might find something that would deter you from applying.

i 'found' that they give 60 scholarships? what the he11! and that' not even full rides. 5000 to full. where is the love?

experiment 1: will jg get any $ from HUSL? will he be one of the lucky 60? how much will he get? once we have this data, we can compare it to HYS. who will show the brotha-man the most love?

experiment 2: at what gpa/lsat point totals do you get dinged by HUSL and yet still get into one of the top 30 or so.

experiment 3: at what gpa/lsat point totals do you get money from the top 30 and none from HUSL. 



and i still want to go there? YES. maybe i could change it for the better.
if i were dean of HUSL, the first thing i would do would be......

[/quote]

Experiment 1 is useless: Y, H, and S don't give merit aid.  Though the generosity of the grant/loan and subsidizied/unsubsidized loan ratios can vary greatly (read: Stanford is one stingy mofo >:().
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: A. on November 16, 2005, 03:20:11 PM
i'm actually a female, i haven't taken the lsat yet, that just the score i keep getting on my practice test(im takin it in 3wks).  My soft factor is that i've basically worked full time while in undergrad!

does any one have any advise on pulling my score up, i feel like i've done everything i can do!!! :(

Why do you want to go to law school?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 03:28:03 PM
scholarship qualifications for howard are 3.0 & 153 or 154, if they don't offer you money right off the bat, ask nicely and you shall recieve.....trust me on that and their tution is so low that it's covered by the stafford loans if that helps at all
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: shaz on November 16, 2005, 03:46:42 PM
scholarship qualifications for howard are 3.0 & 153 or 154, if they don't offer you money right off the bat, ask nicely and you shall recieve.....trust me on that and their tution is so low that it's covered by the stafford loans if that helps at all


hahahahaha tuition is so low it's covered by the stafford loans. whooopdeeedodo. this is from a school that realizes how fn racist (yeah i said) that 18.5 is. how are you going to live in dc without more that that? how are you going to eat? (is it still possible to sneak into the caf?) what if your credit is not so hot? who is going to cosign for your loans? mom?

is not HU fed funded? then why is the cost so high? come on.

ask and you shall receive? lex, you must be hot.  ;D
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 04:06:21 PM
you do realize that unless you go to howard, recieve enough money from schools, someone is gonna pay for you or have a 100k set aside you'll be taking out private loans regardless??? so my suggestion would be to get to know your credit situation and fix anything up that need be while looking for a cosigner if a) your credit isn't the best and/or b)you haven't been working for years with assets (like a house)

good luck shaz, and don't be like me and wait last minute...although i'm not too hard on the eyes  :D i'd like to say that it's all about how you ask b/c i've yet to meet an HU adcom or step foot on campus...and i lived in dc for two years, lol

i and others think that howards efforts to keep tuition low is rare and a great thing, some T3 schools cost just as much as T14's


scholarship qualifications for howard are 3.0 & 153 or 154, if they don't offer you money right off the bat, ask nicely and you shall recieve.....trust me on that and their tution is so low that it's covered by the stafford loans if that helps at all


hahahahaha tuition is so low it's covered by the stafford loans. whooopdeeedodo. this is from a school that realizes how fn racist (yeah i said) that 18.5 is. how are you going to live in dc without more that that? how are you going to eat? (is it still possible to sneak into the caf?) what if your credit is not so hot? who is going to cosign for your loans? mom?

is not HU fed funded? then why is the cost so high? come on.

ask and you shall receive? lex, you must be hot.  ;D
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: shaz on November 16, 2005, 04:23:55 PM
yes, but unlike a lot of schools hu does not have a night program. they also do not allow their 1ls to work at all during 1l. even the aba allows 20hrs. i just think that hu keeps a lot of black folk out that would go if they could.

oh, and a lot of people don't know anyone who could/would cosign for 100grand. i have 'good' credit today but don't think i am not getting pretty paranoid over-here about that 12 hundred on my card from testmasters. (for all the good it did me  >:()

hey i do not have a house or any assets. are you saying that that alone would preclude me from getting loans? i'm pretty much an orphan, so there is noone to cosign.

*you have just scared the s---t out of me*
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 05:12:54 PM
My friend and I have been following this Howard thread and we were joking and wondering "if they talk about Howard like this what would they say about Texas Southern"!!! Seriously, what do you all think are some of the great points about HU?  I think the tuition is affordable b/c there are state schools in Texas that are close to the tuition at HU.  While I am not concerned my credit, I am a lil worried about the cost of living.  Do a lot of students have roomies or is rent in the MD area (I hear Silver Spring is a winner) reasonable?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 05:21:36 PM
My friend and I have been following this Howard thread and we were joking and wondering "if they talk about Howard like this what would they say about Texas Southern"!!! Seriously, what do you all think are some of the great points about HU?  I think the tuition is affordable b/c there are state schools in Texas that are close to the tuition at HU.  While I am not concerned my credit, I am a lil worried about the cost of living.  Do a lot of students have roomies or is rent in the MD area (I hear Silver Spring is a winner) reasonable?

If you stay in the East towers, you'll probably have your own room but share a bathroom and kitchen with someone else.

Good points: Tuition, facilities, faculty, students, social awareness, being in DC, prestigious alumni.
Bad points: COL, administration, red tape, crime (near main campus), commute from dorm to law school (25 minutes each way, pain in the ass).
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Inquirer on November 16, 2005, 06:07:21 PM
.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: lawstudent3 on November 16, 2005, 06:09:46 PM
I suggest looking in the D.C. suburbs - near a train line - for a place to live (P.G. County, Montgomery County, possibly Howard County).  You might find the cost of living to be significantly lower in some outlying areas and you'll definitely find a lower crime rate in some of the areas I mentioned. 

DC 'burbs are still VERY expensive.  Montgomery County is by far the priciest of the ones you mention.  PG County is a little cheaper, but there can be high crime rates in some areas.  Howard County is the cheapest of the bunch by far, but you may have a long commute.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 06:13:41 PM
Intent -

I am seriously considering applying to HU Law as well.   I won't finish my application until I come back from the Open House this Friday because I want to make sure that spending $72 to apply there isn't going to be a waste of my money.

If I do apply, get in, and decide to go to HU (that's a lot of "what ifs"), I'll be staying in Baltimore.  I've lived in Baltimore since I was in undergrad and I own a home in town.  The cost of living is low and it's easy to take the train to D.C. (the hour long ride provides plenty of extra study time as well).   

I suggest looking in the D.C. suburbs - near a train line - for a place to live (P.G. County, Montgomery County, possibly Howard County).  You might find the cost of living to be significantly lower in some outlying areas and you'll definitely find a lower crime rate in some of the areas I mentioned. 

Nah man. Don't do this. That is insane.

If you wanna live off campus move to ballston or silver springs. Nice apartments for like 700/mo. Get a girlfriend to split rent.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Inquirer on November 16, 2005, 07:04:11 PM


Nah man. Don't do this. That is insane.

If you wanna live off campus move to ballston or silver springs. Nice apartments for like 700/mo. Get a girlfriend to split rent.
[/quote]

John -

What exactly are you advising him NOT to do?

I suggested he look in Montgomery County (and the last time I checked, Silver Spring is located in Montgomery County, and please, tell me where you saw that $700 apartment in Silver Spring because I'm thinking probably REALLY close to the P.G. County line, which is not the most savory locale in M.C.).  I also suggested other counties like Prince Georges (parts of which are crime-ridden, as I mentioned) and Howard County (parts of which are 30-40 minutes away, therefore close to the same distance to the law school as part the main HU campus - where walking quickly and having mace to ward off the criminals likely lurking around the corner are a VERY good ideas).

If you are referring to my mention of Baltimore City, recognize that I did not tell him to stay in Baltimore. I mentioned that if I were to go to HU Law,  I would be living in Baltimore.  I dont think that's insane given my particular circumstances. I happen to live in a very nice, very safe, very quiet neighborhood for less than $700 a month and I'm not giving up my investment to move somewhere more expensive. I don't mind an hour long commute- as I've been teaching in the morning and going to school at night for four years, I'm used to getting up pretty early and going to bed pretty late. Plus,I just plain like living in Baltimore.

I recognize that everyone isn't me. So, although commuting an hour to school every day might seem insane to some, I'd say the same thing about shacking up with someone just to pay the rent (what would you suggest if his "girlfriend" decided to kick him out - or leave - around finals for not paying enough attention to her?)

 Peace :)
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 07:29:45 PM


Nah man. Don't do this. That is insane.

If you wanna live off campus move to ballston or silver springs. Nice apartments for like 700/mo. Get a girlfriend to split rent.

John -

What exactly are you advising him NOT to do?





I suggested he look in Montgomery County (and the last time I checked, Silver Spring is located in Montgomery County, and please, tell me where you saw that $700 apartment in Silver Spring because I'm thinking probably REALLY close to the P.G. County line, which is not the most savory locale in M.C.).  I also suggested other counties like Prince Georges (parts of which are crime-ridden, as I mentioned) and Howard County (parts of which are 30-40 minutes away, therefore close to the same distance to the law school as part the main HU campus - where walking quickly and having mace to ward off the criminals likely lurking around the corner are a VERY good ideas).

If you are referring to my mention of Baltimore City, recognize that I did not tell him to stay in Baltimore. I mentioned that if I were to go to HU Law,  I would be living in Baltimore.  I dont think that's insane given my particular circumstances. I happen to live in a very nice, very safe, very quiet neighborhood for less than $700 a month and I'm not giving up my investment to move somewhere more expensive. I don't mind an hour long commute- as I've been teaching in the morning and going to school at night for four years, I'm used to getting up pretty early and going to bed pretty late. Plus,I just plain like living in Baltimore.

I recognize that everyone isn't me. So, although commuting an hour to school every day might seem insane to some, I'd say the same thing about shacking up with someone just to pay the rent (what would you suggest if his "girlfriend" decided to kick him out - or leave - around finals for not paying enough attention to her?)

 Peace :)
[/quote]


Nah, bruh, I meant you. YOu want to go to live in Baltimore...Bmore is crazy. But you sound like you're really familiar with the area so you probably know what you're doing. But Baltimore is rough.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 07:34:48 PM
Howard County is far if you can't handle the commute.. I lived in Columbia for almost a yr while I was getting my JD and the commute was too much for me..so I had to move back to the city after my lease was up...

there are some apts on Georgia Ave in Silver Spring (Georgia Towers is the name) where you can find a 1br (at least in 03) for about $800 and I think that utilities were included..but I'm sure that it's gone up since then...  any other area in Montgomery Cty is definitely going to cost more than that..your best bet would be to get a roommate and try to get an apt in SS somewhere..unless you pay a lot of attention to the city paper and find a private apt (usually basement) that's more affordable.. http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com or http://washingtondc.craigslist.org

Laurel in PG is affordable and there are some safe areas there probably closer to University of MD or near Cherry Hill Rd...
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 07:36:15 PM
i know for a fact that there are plenty of 2 bedroom apts big enough for two ppl on the silver spring/DC border that (16th & eastwest highway area) that are still going for 900 bucks so it's def more than a deal with two ppl and knock a hundred or so off for a one bedroom, housing is avail you just have to look

shaz.....i didn't mean to scare you just wanted to make sure that you started getting stuff ready for when and if the loan process starts for you......also you def don't need to own a house or assets but i think established (having good payment history on credit cards for at least 3 years, steady income and minimum bad debt almost anything outside of a home & school loans) and decent (not even 700 just above 600) credit will be a necessity if you r going to try and get a loan on your own

also check out the financial aid board there's a few good threads where diff posters have shared their experiences on the loan process & all that good stuff
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 07:44:49 PM
Again thanks for the info everyone.  This thread is definitely giving me some options as far as housing goes.  I guess the first step is for HU to go ahead and request my LSDAS report so we can find out if I am even going to get admitted...lol.

Inquirer--you'll have to let me know how the Open House goes.  I was planning on coming up to visit HU last month but I waited too long to get a ticket so I'll have to wait until early next year.

blk_reign, are u still living in the DC area?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 07:46:43 PM
and craigslist is like gold for DC & apt hunting also just walking around diff neighborhoods and seeing what avail, you'd be surprised how many ppl don't advertise in a paper or internet
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 07:47:40 PM
no I moved to Houston last July


yeah that's true too lex.. a lot of people just post phone #s in the property window... you'd be surprised how many diamonds you walk past...
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 07:53:08 PM
Im in H-town right now myself.  How's the city treating you?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 07:55:51 PM
eh..i'm still adjusting...are u from here?

Im in H-town right now myself.  How's the city treating you?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 07:56:22 PM
when i hear H-Town i think of "oooooooooooOOOOooooOOOOO somebody rock knockin da....." hahahahaha
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 07:59:00 PM
man..the high top fades.. i remember how "fast" the boys were and the girls back then lol...one of my boys used to try to sing that song after church on sundays...  :D :D


when i hear H-Town i think of "oooooooooooOOOOooooOOOOO somebody rock knockin da....." hahahahaha
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 08:02:11 PM
ok I just spit all my water out on my laptop!!!!!! lol (

I have been in Houston for over 3 years and I really like it here.  But I have family in DC so I know that there is a huge culture diff. b/t the two cities.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 08:03:19 PM
did you know that luke put them on the map? lil known fact of the day...i remember singing that with my softball teammates during sixth grade all-stars, right before i tore two ligaments in my right shoulder.....okay y'all didn't need to know all that but oh well  ;D
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 08:03:59 PM
HUGE cultural difference  :D... but i am loving the affordability of this place...

ok I just spit all my water out on my laptop!!!!!! lol (

I have been in Houston for over 3 years and I really like it here.  But I have family in DC so I know that there is a huge culture diff. b/t the two cities.

yeah i knew about the luke thing.. and how did u tear those ligaments ?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 08:07:01 PM
yes it is but you do get a lot of bang for your buck here in H-town!  The nightlife is pretty cool too but you just gotta find your niche.  Something for everyone here....

Now on to this ligament tear....you either swung the bat too hard OR you and your teammates were pop-lockin! hahaha
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: shaz on November 16, 2005, 08:08:44 PM
lex,

it's cool. my credit is high 600s. my recent splurges have brought it down from the 7s. i just worry about the debt though. i'm going to graduate with about 20k as it is. i know that's relatively low but another hundred on top of that seems insane.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 16, 2005, 08:12:28 PM
i'm not a clubber so i really haven't found my niche...if houston wasn't so darn big lol....i'd probably find some things to get into...

yes it is but you do get a lot of bang for your buck here in H-town!  The nightlife is pretty cool too but you just gotta find your niche.  Something for everyone here....

Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: shaz on November 16, 2005, 08:14:33 PM
i just read my post. this thread has sure changed.  :)

damn hu to lovin h-town. wow.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 16, 2005, 08:16:04 PM
lol, i was throwing the ball in from shortstop to the catcher and threw my shoulder out of the socket but the runner was out....from that day on i've always has to sleep on my stomach with my right arm under me b/c my shoulder only seems to dislocate after the incident when i'm totally relaxed (ie sleeping) took a few years to get used to but i'd rather that than waking up not being able to move b/c my shoulder popped out...especially since there's a chance noone will hear me screaming for help now that i'm on own (or was and will be in the near future, lol)

shaz, just try to get the new debt cleaned up i'm sure things will work out for ya
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 08:17:47 PM
yes, houston is definitely huge, but I'm sure you gotta find all kinds of things to do when you aren't busy using that JD!!

Shaz--sorry for the H-town tribute.  Are you applying to many law schools? Is HU at the top of your list?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 16, 2005, 10:17:52 PM
What up Fam. I know I'm a day late on this joint but I couldn't resist the chance to testify on the blatant CPT exhibited by that institution we all know and love.

Applied to Howard last year around...October.  Got friggin waitlisted with a 162 LSAT (still a mystery even with the average engineering GPA) Got the standard letter saying "don't call us, we'll call you"

November passes
December passes
January, February, March...

Decide to pay a visit to ol' Howard Law School.  Fly out to the east coast, stay with my peoples in NY, rent a car, roll on down to DC.  Get there and discuss with [insert vivid fabulous female name here] that I 've been on the wait list to the school for about 1/2 a year now, and was just wondering if the good hard working folks of Howard Law might be seeing their way to tellin a brother anytime soon if that might be changing.  Of course you don't see my file in the computer - that's why I have this letter printed on official Howard Law stationary in my hand right in front of you.  What's that?  You'll be rollin out decisions in a few weeks?  Great. Thank you for your time.

April passes
May passes
June, July, August...

I accept the offer from Rutgers School of Law, move to NJ, sign a lease, pay a for a parking permit, buy an EZ Pass, attend law school orientation, finish law school orientation, go to the first day of Torts, come home and find what?...a letter from Howard saying come on down, the price is right!

DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 10:25:21 PM
i really enjoyed that one!!!  I'm applying to Rutgers-Newark....is your experience there going well?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 16, 2005, 10:27:05 PM
i really enjoyed that one!!!  I'm applying to Rutgers-Newark....is your experience there going well?

You have no idea, bruh.


Off the freakin meter.  Law School shouldn't be this kool.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 10:32:30 PM
yea i talked to a admissions rep at the Houston forum and I was pretty much sold.  I have no clue what life in Newark would be like, but that's why there are visits. I have peeps in the NYC area so I wont be that alone if I were to go.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 16, 2005, 10:39:57 PM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: jdw112 on November 16, 2005, 10:45:42 PM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said

Beyonce is certainly icing on the cake.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 10:47:06 PM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said

Beyonce is certainly icing on the cake.

Yeah Jigga tried to roll up on me for talking to B...please, he'll get got. Its all about Beyonce and John.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lawstudent3 on November 16, 2005, 10:49:27 PM
Yeah Jigga tried to roll up on me for talking to B...please, he'll get got. Its all about Beyonce and John.

Who does he think he is tryin to get all up on your chick?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 16, 2005, 10:53:06 PM
Ok the app that has been on my coffee table is going in the mail tomorrow.  What would I do without this message board?

Thanks for the info bro....good stuff!
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 16, 2005, 10:57:51 PM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said

Beyonce is certainly icing on the cake.

Yeah Jigga tried to roll up on me for talking to B...please, he'll get got. Its all about Beyonce and John.

I think you could take him, yo
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: seu2002 on November 16, 2005, 11:00:24 PM
yea i talked to a admissions rep at the Houston forum and I was pretty much sold.  I have no clue what life in Newark would be like, but that's why there are visits. I have peeps in the NYC area so I wont be that alone if I were to go.


i'm wondering who they send to the houston LSAC forum bc the rutgers rep i spoke to also did a fabulous job of selling the school to me.  i had no idea rutgers even existed when i attended the forum, but after speaking to the rep i KNEW that rutgers was the place for me.  and here i am! 

burning sands is on point with his description...  law school shouldnt be this much friggin fun.  it's INSANE.  i've never had this much fun!!!  the semester is nearly over and it's not till this week that i've started stressing (i'm on point in every class too-- my profs love me), and that's only bc the toughest LRW assignment is due on monday.  otherwise, i'd be sticking to my ways and enjoying the 2L admonishments of how i'd better strap down.  yeah, sands, i'm talking about you-- y'all are too funny sometimes, but i certainly appreciate the watchful eye.

intent, hit sands up for more info on getting into rutgers.  despite it's second tier rating, this is a great NATIONAL school.  i'm from texas and the attorneys i worked for and know were all very impressed with my rutgers admission, more so than my co-workers' acceptance to other higher-ranked regional schools.  and life in newark aint half bad.  it's a nice laid-back break from the craze of the city, DESPITE all lex19's gotta say!  lol.




Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: jdw112 on November 16, 2005, 11:03:25 PM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said

Beyonce is certainly icing on the cake.

Yeah Jigga tried to roll up on me for talking to B...please, he'll get got. Its all about Beyonce and John.

I think you could take him, yo

All you have to do is kick him in the vagina. Nas did it before the truce.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 16, 2005, 11:04:50 PM
Yo, Sands...i just read your post about HU. Man, see that is the thing. Howard is always complaining why other schools attract the qualified brothers. I mean, if they wouldn't be so trifiling they might've had a shot at you for example. It infuriates me to no end because if they would just do things in an organized and efficient manner then they'd get somewhere. You don't waitlist one of the top applicants...I mean, people don't apply to Howard for kicks...its not like we're bellying up 60 bucks just cause it is a safety (we have people who will give us fee waivers for that). What the hell are they thinking over there?

Nonetheless, you are an inspiration. Law Review and handling the business. Hope to see you on here more often when you get a break.








And ya, Jigga ain't got nothin on me
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: jdw112 on November 16, 2005, 11:12:57 PM
And ya, Jigga ain't got nothin on me

Almost missed that....  :P
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 16, 2005, 11:20:46 PM
Yo, Sands...i just read your post about HU. Man, see that is the thing. Howard is always complaining why other schools attract the qualified brothers. I mean, if they wouldn't be so trifiling they might've had a shot at you for example. It infuriates me to no end because if they would just do things in an organized and efficient manner then they'd get somewhere. You don't waitlist one of the top applicants...I mean, people don't apply to Howard for kicks...its not like we're bellying up 60 bucks just cause it is a safety (we have people who will give us fee waivers for that). What the hell are they thinking over there?

Nonetheless, you are an inspiration. Law Review and handling the business. Hope to see you on here more often when you get a break.








And ya, Jigga ain't got nothin on me


LOL thanks bruh, I do what I can.  Don't even get me started back on Howard again. THESE ni@@as... As much as I respect them for being an HBCU Law School, and given the fact that they are seriously underrated and disrespected by the financially subjective US News, they make it difficult to defend them sometimes with their constant refusal to just do the right thing! 

It's true that if the cards had fallen the other way, I would have gladly been a trumpet for Howard Law and I would have done everything there that I am doing here to positively impact change for us in the legal community.

I think I fell at a disadvantage with Howard because they place too much weight on whether you went to an HBCU undergrad.  I went to a major state university, but any cat with a GED and 30 seconds could have easily read my resume and saw that I was about making strides for the black community.

Oh well...we got Cali Rich in there holdin it down for the cause so there's at least one good brother that we know of down there who I'm sure will be makin his voice heard.   
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 17, 2005, 06:25:58 AM
 :D :D ;D ;)...cheack the avator
it's a nice laid-back break from the craze of the city, DESPITE all lex19's gotta say!  lol.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: blk_reign on November 17, 2005, 06:31:34 AM
man..ya'll had a party going on last night while i was sleeping :D... best advice i'm giving you guys..


DO NOT ENTER A DUAL DEGREE PROGRAM....

that is all...
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 17, 2005, 08:27:09 AM
this DAMN U HOWARD has been quite good for me and I hope the good people at HU get it together this admissions cycle (although I am not seeing it so far).

seuIL & Burning Sands....the app has gone out to Rutgers thanks to you guys and the admissions rep.  I might have to start a thread where I bombard you guys with Rutgers questions.

seu1L...how was your adjustment from Texas to NJ?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: seu2002 on November 17, 2005, 09:33:21 AM
hey intent,

i'm glad that what i posted was useful to you.  and by all means, feel free to ask any rutgers question you have.  i'm sure sands wont mind me saying that we will be more than happy to answer them. 

as for my move from texas to the northeast--- i was certainly concerned with how the transition would flow and whether i would be able to adjust or not.  i had a strong small-town mentality and i hadn't been exposed to diversity.  i had never visited rutgers, much less the northeast.  i handled my entire move, including finding an apartment and roommates, over the internet.  i was afraid that i would end up in some run down hole in the wall apartment, living with people i wouldnt like, alone, and so far away from home or anyone i knew, with no money (since we can't work) and no way to get around.  on top of that i'd heard so many horrible things about newark and new york city and  about how dirty and unsafe public transportation was...  i wasn't freaking out, but some little incident would certainly have put me over the edge.

so my big move was a flight to newark carrying only one suitcase with all the bare essentials.  i arrived in newark past midnight.  my cab driver was an ass who didnt know where rutgers, the only landmark i could give him that is close to where i live, was, so he drove me all around newark so late at night demanding i tell him where to go-- how was i supposed to know?!?!  it was actually scary.  but once i got to my place and met my roommates, then ventured out into newark and into NYC, i loved it.  i really do love this place and i will probably end up living here after i graduate.  i do get homesick, but i dont really have time to think about it because i'm so busy and because i'm having soooo much FUN!

the people that i've met here are amazingly friendly and helpful.  sands is one of them.  when he found out that i was in newark he made himself available to me so that my move would flow better.  he told me where to find what i needed, and he put me in contact with some of his friends in the law school, who were all so friendly and helpful.  other people were very sympathetic to know that i was a complete newbie to this area whenever they found out i was out here alone all the way from texas.  they all assumed i was homesick and made an effort to be extra friendly to me.  it was sweet.  this sort of reaction was seen across the board, and i'm positive you'll get the same reaction if you come here.

the one thing that struck me about the campus and the general area is the DIVERSITY.  i was shocked at how many different people were around me the very first time i walked through penn station.  i was awed at how many people unlike myself sat in every single one of my classes.  this school eptiomizes diversity. 

newark isnt that bad of a place.  you just gotta find the right neighborhood to live in AND use common sense so that you aren't putting yourself in any odd situations.  i really like that newark's just a train ride away to NYC, and i especially love that i can go buck wild in the city then come back to newark where life is so much more relaxed and slow-paced.  the student organizations at the law school also do a great job of throwing huge parties at the law school; there are also a few law student-dominated bars around the campus; and someone (*cough* scorpios *cough*) is always having a huge party somewhere, so the extent of your interaction with the ppl at the law school is not limited to the campus.

i know i've gone off on tangents, but there is just so much to say about this place.  i really am so happy with my decision.  i miss home sometimes, but there's no way i would trade this experience in.  i'm having the time of my life out here-  i've developed a healthy (to me anyway) balance of studies and socializing, and the connections i've established personally, academically, and professionally have made my time here worth every minute.  i envisioned law school being a a torturous ordeal, but such is not the case at all.  i'm sure that you'll love being out here as much as i do if you choose to come here. 

now, hit me up in a few months after i experience my first northeast winter.  i left behind the texas weather i adored for this...  let's hope my opinion doesnt change!  hahaha.  ;)

HTH
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 17, 2005, 09:56:29 AM
this DAMN U HOWARD has been quite good for me and I hope the good people at HU get it together this admissions cycle (although I am not seeing it so far).

seuIL & Burning Sands....the app has gone out to Rutgers thanks to you guys and the admissions rep.  I might have to start a thread where I bombard you guys with Rutgers questions.

seu1L...how was your adjustment from Texas to NJ?


Hopefully they will bruh.  We can only hope.  Howard would be alright if they would just get it together on an admin level.

Good move on Rutgers, you can't go wrong with that.  Good luck to you gettin in.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Nemesis on November 17, 2005, 10:05:11 AM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said

Beyonce is certainly icing on the cake.

Yeah Jigga tried to roll up on me for talking to B...please, he'll get got. Its all about Beyonce and John.

Galt, you're silly  :P I thought it was all about Annabel and John!?  ::)

Anyway, I have to add. Howard IS triffling (sp?). How is Georgetown going to accept me before my alma mata even completes me  ???

I'm also bitter.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 17, 2005, 10:06:36 AM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said

Beyonce is certainly icing on the cake.

Yeah Jigga tried to roll up on me for talking to B...please, he'll get got. Its all about Beyonce and John.

Galt, you're silly  :P I thought it was all about Annabel and John!?  ::)

Anyway, I have to add. Howard IS triffling (sp?). How is Georgetown going to accept me before my alma mata even completes me  ???

I'm also bitter.

I guess I'll be sleeping on the couch tonight, eh?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 17, 2005, 10:08:44 AM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said

Beyonce is certainly icing on the cake.

Yeah Jigga tried to roll up on me for talking to B...please, he'll get got. Its all about Beyonce and John.

Galt, you're silly  :P I thought it was all about Annabel and John!?  ::)

Anyway, I have to add. Howard IS triffling (sp?). How is Georgetown going to accept me before my alma mata even completes me  ???

I'm also bitter.

I guess I'll be sleeping on the couch tonight, eh?

imma need all your business to not be on the street
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Nemesis on November 17, 2005, 10:10:19 AM
What's life like?  3 words:
New York Metro

There's nothing like rolling thru a Harlem lounge for drinks, Queens for authentic jamaican food, catching some live jazz in BKLYN and ending up at a law school party at a club in times square with Beyonce all in the same weekend!!!!

'nuff said

Beyonce is certainly icing on the cake.

Yeah Jigga tried to roll up on me for talking to B...please, he'll get got. Its all about Beyonce and John.

Galt, you're silly  :P I thought it was all about Annabel and John!?  ::)

Anyway, I have to add. Howard IS triffling (sp?). How is Georgetown going to accept me before my alma mata even completes me  ???

I'm also bitter.

I guess I'll be sleeping on the couch tonight, eh?


(http://www.jessielendennie.com/images/Zach_Teddy_Couch.jpg)

Don't worry you'll have company.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 17, 2005, 10:20:48 AM


seuIL & Burning Sands....the app has gone out to Rutgers thanks to you guys and the admissions rep.  I might have to start a thread where I bombard you guys with Rutgers questions.


intent06: read this whole thread on Rutgers.

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,21313.msg306194.html#msg306194
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 17, 2005, 10:37:45 AM
Thanks Sands and seu1L for the great tips and advice.  The application is out of my hands and I will keep you updated on what happens next.  As for the "Mecca" known as HU, they better get on it and quick! (that $60 could be spent on other things).  I was waiting on someone who is currently at HU to come on this thread and cuss us all to damnation....lol
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 18, 2005, 10:51:24 AM
b/c howard isn't your avg T3 and the only thing holding it back in my eyes is money
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 18, 2005, 11:03:50 AM
Lex are u applying to Howard this cycle?  I hold both HU and Rutgers in high regard but I think if it came down to it (pending acceptance by both) that I would choose Rutgers because of the money situation.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 18, 2005, 12:01:27 PM
intent, i'm not applying to howard this cycle, but did last year mostly b/c i freaked since i only had 2 safeties out of 12....i sent my app in at the end of jan and was wl'ed b/c it was soooo late, got in off the wl in june (i think) but declined

and why rutgers?? is their tuition lower than howard after qualifying as a resident?? see i could never relinquish my NY residency especially not for armpit (NJ armpit of america, look at the shape) status (please excuse my NJ snub..seu that was for you :-*)
.....oh and newark is probably less expensive than DC too

the one thing i learned from last year is not to apply anywhere you would not actually attend, this year i have no "if all else fails" schools.....any fee waiviers & glossy info from schools that are from schools not on my list are quickly dumped
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on November 18, 2005, 02:26:59 PM
I really dont understand what is taking Howard so long on these applications. I had my appication in the first day they accepted them with much higher numbers than there averages. I feel like if other schools can have the courtesy to make an effort to respond earlier when you get your app in early so should they. Part of me is just talking out of anxiety but I am hearing a lot about the admin. I applied to about 18 schools. Howard was one of the first apps I finished and the second to last to go complete. I still see the school in a high regard and as one I would definetly go to for the school to advance they need to shake the stigma of beauracratic problems.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 18, 2005, 02:56:24 PM
my sentiments exactly superocdman.  Where else are you applying? (just me being nosey).  I applied to about 13 schools and its funny how a large number of those apps have gone complete considering the majority of them were sent on 10/28. 
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: seu2002 on November 18, 2005, 04:03:02 PM
why 13?  i applied to 13 too.  i dont know why.  sometimes i wonder why i would ever apply to such an odd number of schools, esp the unlucky number 13!
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 18, 2005, 04:09:43 PM
i asked myself that too, but wasn't about to pay for another app
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 18, 2005, 04:46:36 PM
i really enjoyed that one!!!  I'm applying to Rutgers-Newark....is your experience there going well?

You have no idea, bruh.


Off the freakin meter.  Law School shouldn't be this kool.

I'm hoping that you would have chosen Rutgers over Howard even if you had gotten the acceptance in December.  Why would you even consider a T3 with a 162 and engineering background? 

BTW, congrats/good luck on LR

I'll answer that.

Because as much as we complain about the effeciency of the admin of Howard Law, Howard is only a T3 because the financially subjective US News & World Report tells you it is.  Don't let these numbers whores (bobbies & beckies) on these websites fool you, Howard Law can back it up where it counts. 

They are just shy of 100% on job placement for all their graduates, of which, about 1/2 go to big law firms, including NYC every single year.  In fact, take a look at the nalp directory and you'll find that there aren't too many firms, even in NY, that don't recruit from Howard.  And their average starting salary for graduates in private practice, the standard top level $125k/yr.  Their Moot Court team last year won the ABA Moot Court competition, defeating Harvard Law School in the final round.  Not to mention, they are one of the few law schools who not only produced an Alumnus who sat on the Supreme Court of the United States, but their Alumnus is known among legal scholars and laypeople alike as one of the greatest lawyers to ever sit on the bench of the US Supreme Court.  Not too many of the so-called "Tier 1" law schools, or any law schools for that matter, can say that.

Part of the stigma of a true "T3" law school is that the radius of recognition or pull of that law school only extends to a local or semi-regional level at best.  Yet, Howard Law is recognized Nation-wide and its grads find jobs in all the popular markets.  In fact, less than 1/2 of Howard Law grads actually stay in DC.  This is not to say that a Howard grad is an automatic shoe-in at any law firm.  Realistically speaking, no school is.  But Howard is definitely not a hinderence as many other true "T3" schools are.

Howard Third Tier??  Yeah right.  If they say so.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: lex19 on November 18, 2005, 04:50:15 PM
and i was told by the dean that 40% of the 04' class found work in NY.....i know american, catholic & GW cannot say the same
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: jdw112 on November 18, 2005, 05:23:34 PM
i really enjoyed that one!!!  I'm applying to Rutgers-Newark....is your experience there going well?

You have no idea, bruh.


Off the freakin meter.  Law School shouldn't be this kool.

I'm hoping that you would have chosen Rutgers over Howard even if you had gotten the acceptance in December.  Why would you even consider a T3 with a 162 and engineering background? 

BTW, congrats/good luck on LR

I'll answer that.

Because as much as we complain about the effeciency of the admin of Howard Law, Howard is only a T3 because the financially subjective US News & World Report tells you it is.  Don't let these numbers whores (bobbies & beckies) on these websites fool you, Howard Law can back it up where it counts. 

They are just shy of 100% on job placement for all their graduates, of which, about 1/2 go to big law firms, including NYC every single year.  In fact, take a look at the nalp directory and you'll find that there aren't too many firms, even in NY, that don't recruit from Howard.  And their average starting salary for graduates in private practice, the standard top level $125k/yr.  Their Moot Court team last year won the ABA Moot Court competition, defeating Harvard Law School in the final round.  Not to mention, they are one of the few law schools who not only produced an Alumnus who sat on the Supreme Court of the United States, but their Alumnus is known among legal scholars and laypeople alike as one of the greatest lawyers to ever sit on the bench of the US Supreme Court.  Not too many of the so-called "Tier 1" law schools, or any law schools for that matter, can say that.

Part of the stigma of a true "T3" law school is that the radius of recognition or pull of that law school only extends to a local or semi-regional level at best.  Yet, Howard Law is recognized Nation-wide and its grads find jobs in all the popular markets.  In fact, less than 1/2 of Howard Law grads actually stay in DC.  This is not to say that a Howard grad is an automatic shoe-in at any law firm.  Realistically speaking, no school is.  But Howard is definitely not a hinderence as many other true "T3" schools are.

Howard Third Tier??  Yeah right.  If they say so.

Love the avatar. That show is riot.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 18, 2005, 05:28:03 PM
Not to hijack the thread with the Boondocks but yeah!  Tell me you wasn't rollin on the floor when they played the video tape and R Kelly looked into the camera, said his name AND social security number and the defense attorney was STILL like "it ain't him"!
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: jdw112 on November 18, 2005, 05:36:33 PM
Not to hijack the thread with the Boondocks but yeah!  Tell me you wasn't rollin on the floor when they played the video tape and R Kelly looked into the camera, said his name AND social security number and the defense attorney was STILL like "it ain't him"!

Ha ha, that was insane!! STOP DANCING!!
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: intent06 on November 18, 2005, 06:49:15 PM
Ok, I have to comment.....I almost peed on myself when the courtroom audience was literally steppin in the name of love during the trial.  I think I am becoming a revolutionary by watching that show.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 19, 2005, 10:49:34 AM
you saw the white lawyer doing the running man!  rediculous.  I'm glad that McGruder has stayed true to the essense of the strip.  That first episode was just so-so, but that last episode was on point.  Still don't know about Regina King as Huey though. That's not the voice I hear when I read the comic.

But I digress. Howard get your sh*t together!
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on November 22, 2005, 11:12:03 AM
i really enjoyed that one!!!  I'm applying to Rutgers-Newark....is your experience there going well?

You have no idea, bruh.


Off the freakin meter.  Law School shouldn't be this kool.

I'm hoping that you would have chosen Rutgers over Howard even if you had gotten the acceptance in December.  Why would you even consider a T3 with a 162 and engineering background? 

BTW, congrats/good luck on LR

I'll answer that.

Because as much as we complain about the effeciency of the admin of Howard Law, Howard is only a T3 because the financially subjective US News & World Report tells you it is.  Don't let these numbers whores (bobbies & beckies) on these websites fool you, Howard Law can back it up where it counts. 

They are just shy of 100% on job placement for all their graduates, of which, about 1/2 go to big law firms, including NYC every single year.  In fact, take a look at the nalp directory and you'll find that there aren't too many firms, even in NY, that don't recruit from Howard.  And their average starting salary for graduates in private practice, the standard top level $125k/yr.  Their Moot Court team last year won the ABA Moot Court competition, defeating Harvard Law School in the final round.  Not to mention, they are one of the few law schools who not only produced an Alumnus who sat on the Supreme Court of the United States, but their Alumnus is known among legal scholars and laypeople alike as one of the greatest lawyers to ever sit on the bench of the US Supreme Court.  Not too many of the so-called "Tier 1" law schools, or any law schools for that matter, can say that.

Part of the stigma of a true "T3" law school is that the radius of recognition or pull of that law school only extends to a local or semi-regional level at best.  Yet, Howard Law is recognized Nation-wide and its grads find jobs in all the popular markets.  In fact, less than 1/2 of Howard Law grads actually stay in DC.  This is not to say that a Howard grad is an automatic shoe-in at any law firm.  Realistically speaking, no school is.  But Howard is definitely not a hinderence as many other true "T3" schools are.

Howard Third Tier??  Yeah right.  If they say so.

Yeah thats true. But if the adminstration treats me like garbage thats going to be reflected in the US News rankings too. I mean its not the U.S. news reputation even as much as it gets dogged out by students for its really poor admin.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 22, 2005, 11:30:42 AM
I feel what you're saying.  Even though its not a direct criteria (how much CPT a school has in returning apps) it can indirectly taint other criteria that will effectively lower their overall stats.  Such as returning the US News survey back to US News 4 months late...
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 06:16:01 PM
Why are you so into Howard?
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: John Galt on November 26, 2005, 07:25:08 PM
Why are you so into Howard?

The history, my friend. The history.
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 26, 2005, 08:47:43 PM
Why are you so into Howard?

The history, my friend. The history.

tell 'em John, tell 'em
Title: Question about Merit Scholarships at Howard
Post by: newyorkstoryz on November 26, 2005, 10:09:21 PM
Hi all,

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.

Question: What do you think my chances of receiving merit scholarship at Howard are and would you have any idea how much?  Background: Black Female, 3.15 GPA from an ivy, 157 LSAT, father went to HUSL, in college campus leader, 3 years in the workforce with pretty impressive job history. 

I'm trying to get a handle on what to expect from Howard money-wise since it seems from most of these posts that I may not hear from them for a while.

Thanks so much,
Hoping to Get In, Dying to Get Funding
Title: Re: Question about Merit Scholarships at Howard
Post by: lex19 on November 27, 2005, 08:31:30 AM
if it's by stats only you should def get some money, good luck!
Hi all,

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.

Question: What do you think my chances of receiving merit scholarship at Howard are and would you have any idea how much?  Background: Black Female, 3.15 GPA from an ivy, 157 LSAT, father went to HUSL, in college campus leader, 3 years in the workforce with pretty impressive job history. 

I'm trying to get a handle on what to expect from Howard money-wise since it seems from most of these posts that I may not hear from them for a while.

Thanks so much,
Hoping to Get In, Dying to Get Funding
Title: Re: DAMN U HOWARD!!!!!!1111
Post by: monimone on December 03, 2005, 08:57:10 PM
Howard is a good school if you believe in legal change in the black community and you want to be a litigator.  I got into HUSL and was faced with the very difficult choice of paying 90k for a decent legacy fulfilled education or do I attend a T1 very good public university.  Suffice it to say, I chose the latter.  You have to go to HUSL before you accept or think that its the place for you.  Before I visited I was gunho about HUSL but when I got there I was very displeased.  I am extremely happy to be where I am today and I feel that I still have all the same opportunities as what I would have had at HUSL.  The only things that I think I missed out on are the different experiences that I would have had being in D.C. and being an HUSL student.  It is very true about HUSL being in a serious need for black male students.  But what law school isn't?  If you are a black male, apply to a bunch of schools.  Write a hell of a personal statement speaking about how your experiences as a black man have shaped your view.  Focus on the highlights of your educational experience.  If you haven't heard back from HUSL, wait!  I applied in like October 2004 and didn't get my acceptance letter until February 2005.  And yes, there are some beautiful ladies at HUSL.  If you get in stay focused!!!!

P.S.  Don't worry about the stats.  Trust me!!!
Title: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on December 15, 2005, 12:20:42 PM
Does anyone have any info as to when Howard starts sendinng out acceptances?
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: blk_reign on December 15, 2005, 12:26:24 PM
I think that some people have already received theirs.. they probably know that you aren't planning on attending so they've put your letter on the backburner :D
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on December 15, 2005, 12:29:01 PM
LOL. Good Point. But I'm seeing how long I can go with no rejections.
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: intent06 on December 15, 2005, 01:50:25 PM
You know I do not know what to say about them.  They have yet to request my LSDAS report or anything.  I have emailed admissions and they do not respond.  I know that some schools are slower at started the process, but common courtesy would be to answer emails since "this is the only way we will communicate".  I dunno what to say....
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: Slow Blues on December 15, 2005, 01:55:33 PM
You know I do not know what to say about them.  They have yet to request my LSDAS report or anything.  I have emailed admissions and they do not respond.  I know that some schools are slower at started the process, but common courtesy would be to answer emails since "this is the only way we will communicate".  I dunno what to say....

Maybe give them a call? Or do you just get a recorded message?
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: intent06 on December 15, 2005, 02:01:08 PM
They do not really the answer and mention responding via email.  I think I will try again via phone.
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: Nemesis on December 15, 2005, 02:14:58 PM
I know that they've already started to accept people.

I got my acceptance a while ago (can't remember the exact date, but you can check my LSN profile). It was a phonecall from the dean, but I haven't received anything in the mail yet.

I know John Galt got an acceptance too at around the same time I did.
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: John Galt on December 15, 2005, 02:18:21 PM
I got a phone call from the dean of admissions letting me know my acceptance
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: Slow Blues on December 15, 2005, 02:21:29 PM
They do not really the answer and mention responding via email.  I think I will try again via phone.

Howard's Rule No. 5: Show no love.

I wonder if anyone will get that Get Rich or Die Tryin reference.
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: intent06 on December 15, 2005, 05:10:00 PM
Tried and I get voice mail.....
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on December 18, 2005, 11:30:15 AM
Thats pretty tacky in my opinion. I was able to get in contact with any other admissions department in minutes about my applications. Why is howard so special?
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: intent06 on December 18, 2005, 12:18:18 PM
Tacky isn't the word.  I guess I had such high hopes from them. Now they are on that list of schools that MAYBE I'll hear from and maybe I won't.  Oh thee well, what can you do?
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: HBCU.EDU on December 18, 2005, 12:21:01 PM
Tacky isn't the word.  I guess I had such high hopes from them. Now they are on that list of schools that MAYBE I'll hear from and maybe I won't.  Oh thee well, what can you do?

you will hear from them bro. They definitely take a long time to get back to you though. There was a sista on the board back when BLSD first started that heard back from Howard a week or so before school started. lol good luck bro.
Title: Re: What is going on with Howard?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on December 19, 2005, 09:58:27 AM
Yeah but some other school would have had my tuition at that point. Thats pretty unproffessional
Title: Whats up with Howard?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on January 24, 2006, 10:59:14 PM
Hey,

I having trouble trying to figure out why I havent gotten word from Howard. As they are my financial safety Im intrested in what they have to say. I mean GW, NW, and UVa but no Howard. I applied in August.....
Title: Re: Whats up with Howard?
Post by: rabika on January 25, 2006, 12:42:25 AM
You should definately contact them... they should've communicated with you somehow by now... maybe it got lost in the mail??
Title: Re: Whats up with Howard?
Post by: jnc18 on January 25, 2006, 12:52:16 AM
With all due respect to the historical importance of Howard and it's overall excellence as an institution... come on, you know you ain't going there for law school.  I don't know why they're tripping though....

Congrats on the bombass acceptances you've gotten, if I haven't already told you.

By the way, I have always wondered what if all of "us" just up and decided to go to Howard.  What if Howard recruited all the top black applicants, gave them full rides with housing and stipend, and guaranteed phat summer jobs?  And strippers and crab cakes.  Called them Thurgood Marshall Scholars or something.  And you'd say "I was a Thurgood Marshall Scholar at Howard" and it would be like saying "I went to [top-14 school]".

Not saying it would be the best thing, just wondering what if...
Title: Re: Whats up with Howard?
Post by: jnc18 on January 25, 2006, 12:54:26 AM
BTW, why are you so sold on Virginia already?
Title: Re: Whats up with Howard?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on January 25, 2006, 07:42:56 AM
With all due respect to the historical importance of Howard and it's overall excellence as an institution... come on, you know you ain't going there for law school.  I don't know why they're tripping though....

Congrats on the bombass acceptances you've gotten, if I haven't already told you.

By the way, I have always wondered what if all of "us" just up and decided to go to Howard.  What if Howard recruited all the top black applicants, gave them full rides with housing and stipend, and guaranteed phat summer jobs?  And strippers and crab cakes.  Called them Thurgood Marshall Scholars or something.  And you'd say "I was a Thurgood Marshall Scholar at Howard" and it would be like saying "I went to [top-14 school]".

Not saying it would be the best thing, just wondering what if...


Super - now you know we done talked about this before.  Its an HBCU, man, what you expect?

Jayscoot - that would be something!  The USNews might actually have to rank Howard where they are supposed to be.  What a novel idea.
Title: Re: Whats up with Howard?
Post by: intent06 on January 25, 2006, 08:18:24 AM
I still have some faith in them although they said they requested my report in November, but they really didn't.  The guy at LSAC was like HOWARD UNIVERSITY DID NOT request your report.  He said it like a lot of people have had this problem.  I'm still hanging in there with them, but I am not the happiest with them.
Title: Re: Whats up with Howard?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on January 28, 2006, 10:22:56 PM
Im sold on UVA because the school is incredible. It has an incredible library, incredible job placement, incredible prestige, and I think I havee a friend whos going to be going they're too. Last but not least Im from the dc area so its the best school for me. As far as howard.. no they are not my first choice...but they are a financial saftey. It looks like Im going to have the money to pay for everything but you never know. Its just really frustrating to not be able to end this whole
Title: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on January 31, 2006, 03:42:10 PM
Ok everyone I got a question. Do I take Howard with a full ride or do I go to UVA. I plan on practicing corporate law and I would like to keep politics open as an option. The idea of not having 100k+ in debt excites me. I was wondering just how good Howard carrer servicesis as far as recuiting. However more importantly are howard laywers making partner anywhere. I know I can have a great career coming out of UVA. I just want to know how much could I impair my ability going to howard.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 03:58:56 PM
UVA, but I'm a prestige whore and don't really see what the problem with paying back loans is if you're making $140k+ per year.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: WarrenG on January 31, 2006, 05:03:50 PM
In the letter I got from Howard they said they are something like #14 (I can't remember the exact #) in the nation in terms of having law firms recruit at there school.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 31, 2006, 05:19:21 PM
In the letter I got from Howard they said they are something like #14 (I can't remember the exact #) in the nation in terms of having law firms recruit at there school.

True, but the question to be asked is which firms are recruiting, who are they hiring, and are those hires going anywhere in the law school.

I say UVa.  As previously stated, you can pay off debt if you plan on going into corporate.  Plus, although Howard is a good school, UVa is leaps and bounds above it in terms of reputation and prestige.  (Yes, I'm a rankings whore, but so are most prestigious law firms).

Plus, I'm biased.  It'd be cool for you to go to UVa; then at I'd be guaranteed at least one chill classmate.   ;D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 05:29:48 PM
Congrats on even having to make that decision, but please seriously consider a few things. 1) You may say corporate law today and switch to public interest when you get to law school (there goes that wonderful 140K/year 2) Rankings are just that...rankings 3) You are not guaranteed a job just because you go to UVa (you still have to be somewhere at the top of the class; everyone who goes to UVa doesn't get a high paying job).

Use the link below in regards to what firms interview where.  I believe you can export to Excel (I could be wrong) and sort from there.  You can see what firms interview at Howard and at UVa.  That will help you with making a decision.  

http://www.nalpdirectory.com/
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 05:32:05 PM
By the way, Cravath and Wachtell BOTH recruit and HIRE from Howard!!!  Check your research....
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 05:36:29 PM
Only nominally.

Does UVA have an LRAP?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 05:40:21 PM
Doesn't matter...they still have presentation at both firms from Howard.  Either way, you still have to bust your ass in LS.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 05:44:30 PM
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,36447.0.html

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,35430.0.html

Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 06:01:06 PM
Doesn't matter...they still have presentation at both firms from Howard.  Either way, you still have to bust your ass in LS.

It does matter.  The implication was that these firms are falling over themselves for Howard grads.  They aren't.  There might be 1 or 2 or 3, but those people had to work for those jobs (top of the class, law review, etc.).  The average student will, overall, have more opportunities coming from UVA than from Howard.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: faith2005 on January 31, 2006, 06:05:43 PM
hey i don't know which one you should choose. but i have never heard of people graduating from uva unemployed. not saying that as a comparison to howard. more like to debunk the statement below. most people who go to higher tiered schools do so b/c they are "virtually" guaranteed a job when they graduate. it might not be in new york city. it might not be at skadden. but more than likely you will be employed. and if you want to go corporate--big law firms pay very close attention to the rankings. thats why the system is allowed to continue. its not like the rankings only matter to law schools themselves. most firms buy into it--which is why you have some firms where very very few associates went to schools below the first tier. b/c people like to recruit their own so to speak. good luck with the decision! i mean no debt is a pretty substantial blessing!  :)

3) You are not guaranteed a job just because you go to UVa (you still have to be somewhere at the top of the class; everyone who goes to UVa doesn't get a high paying job).
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 06:11:01 PM
hmmmmm, sounds a bit biased to me, but I'm not the one having to make a decision.  But Super, I say go wherever you feel in your heart and mind.  But know that NOTHING is PROMISED to you.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Slow Blues on January 31, 2006, 06:14:16 PM
If I were in your position, I'd go to Virginia. Personally, I think this would be a tougher decision if you had to choose between a full ride at Washington & Lee or William & Mary vs. retail at Virginia. I think intent raises good points though.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 06:18:59 PM
Right, I am not just super pro-Howard Slow.  I am just raising some points that show the other side because CLEARLY a lot of people are T20 or bust.  My only thing is if you taking on that kind of debt you better be on POINT because no one here, NO ONE is going to help you pay that money you borrow back.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: faith2005 on January 31, 2006, 06:20:30 PM
of course its biased. corporate law firms are biased. you can go to a corporate firm from either one, but alot of corporate firms have tons of virginia grads. harvard and virginia and schools like them are like feeders. i don't know what the competition is like at howard--maybe if the school is smaller it might be a little easier to graduate at the top of the class (of course its still law school so thats tenuous) and of course you'll get tons of job offers that way too. but i'm just saying barring a grave catastrophe in the world market (leading to little to no jobs available like folks who graduated in 2001 and got their offers on wall st. rescinded) or in your personal life (meaning you do extremely poorly) you should be able to get an offer for one of those jobs graduating from virginia as well. and you won't need to be at the top of your class unless you want to work at the very top law firms. and if you want to stay in the south, i think your prospects are even better. i still think either one is a great choice...i mean i don't particularly want to go corporate so none of this really spoke to me...its all about your personal choices.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 06:21:12 PM
I'm going to post some HU statements from Vault...

Law school is similar everywhere, but HU is bit more formal than most.
1Ls stand when called upon, and complete socratic method is used 1st
year for most profs, and all 3 years for some. Usual curve, but no grade
inflation. Out of 50 students in a section, my Contracts prof gave 4
A's. This is typical.

--

I am going into my 2nd year so I can only speak about my first year
academic experiences. Ofcourse, the 1st year courses are mandatory.
Howard is very unique in its first year curriculum because students will
take only 9 credits the 1st semester and 21 credits the second semester.
The first year is hell at any school but if you can survive that 2nd
semester at Howard you feel like you can accomplish anything. Professors
are verry accessible and welcoming. They all seem to be very bright and
have a great sense of humor. Excuse me, not all, but most of them do.
Classes during the first year have about 50+ students in each of the
three sections.
---

The top law firms come to Howard.  However, as with all schools you do need to
be at the top of your class.  Being located in Washington DC I know the
opportunity for internships/externships is excellant while still in school.  The
program is also recognized nationwide.  The more work you do while in school only
increases your chances after you graduate.  Howard's Career Services has ranked
high consistently in many school surveys.
---

All major law firms recruit from Howard Univ Law School.  Almost all are looking
for top 15 - 25% of the class.  On campus recruiting is intensive and structured.
 Internships and externships are readily available.
---

Employment prospects are great. More recruiters (per capita) come to HU than
most other universities in the nation. If you are at the top of your class and on
law review you can choose which firm to go to. If you are in the bottom 2/3
things are more difficult.

---

Any legal employer that recruits at top ranked school generally recruits at
Howard at well.  Although US News and World Report doesn't give the school the
highest ranking, the reputation of the school with those who know speaks for
itself.  Howard graduates work for many top firms such as Sullivan and Cromwell,
Covington & Burling, Paul Weis, just to name a few.  Other graduates take
government jobs as prosecutors or defense attorneys.  Howard is renowed for the
training it gives it students in trial work, which is evident from the constant
1st, 2nd and other top placements in trial advocacy and moot court competitions.
There are a very wide spectrum of jobs for the students readily available.  

The alumni network is very helpful.  There is an e-mail list that sends numerous
job openings for alumni on a weekly basis.  Many of geared specifically to Howard
graduates because of a recommendation from a former Howard grad working for the
recruiting company.  Many offers and opportunites are sent out to all interested
alumni.  

In addition, the on campus recruiting environment is excellent as well.  During
interveiw season dozens of legal employers come to Howard.  A person can
interview as often as they want, depending on how ambitous that person is.  Of
course, the better the grades one has, the more opportunities one has to
interview.
--
The Career Services Office is absolutely the best festure at Howard Law.  It is
run smoothly, and with great concern for students' futures.  Over a hundred law
firms (including the top firms in the country and world) participate in OCI, as
well as numerous public interest career opportunities.  The Career Services
Office offers several trainings, beginning in the late Fall of the First year.
Placement for the top 25% of the class is very high.  Employers come to Howard
expecting well-trained lawyers, and respect the University's tradition.  Students
are urged to consider all opportunities, firms, clerkships, public interest jobs
with the government, military, etc.  OCI is pretty intense in the fall, starting
in August and ending in late November.  OCI continues is the spring, where first
years get their first opportunity to interview with employers hiring first years.
 Top first year students are often placed in paying, summer positions.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on January 31, 2006, 06:21:53 PM
Ok everyone I got a question. Do I take Howard with a full ride or do I go to UVA. I plan on practicing corporate law and I would like to keep politics open as an option. The idea of not having 100k+ in debt excites me. I was wondering just how good Howard carrer servicesis as far as recuiting. However more importantly are howard laywers making partner anywhere. I know I can have a great career coming out of UVA. I just want to know how much could I impair my ability going to howard.

Super Super Super, always the tough questions with you.  Please allow me to make your decision even more difficutl, if I may... ;D

First of all, you asked if howard lawyers are making partner anywhere.  First point the board needs to recognize, for the record, BLACK lawyers are not making partner anywhere in good numbers.  Regardless of WHAT law school you came from.  So when people make the observation that UVa grads are hired more than Howard grads we're comparing apples to oranges.  The true question is how many BLACK UVa grads are getting hired in comparision to Howard grads (assuming the Howard grads are, of course, black).

You will get no argument from me that the number of UVa grads being hired by Big Law in NYC & DC is killing the number from Howard.  The proof is in the numbers.  But again, those are white UVa grads. Trust me.  Through BLSA, we work with all of the Big Law firms in NYC.  Cravath, Proskauer, Wachtell, Davis Polk, Paul Weiss, Cleary, Shearman & Sterling, Sullivan & Cromwell, Debevoise, White & Case, Skadden...etc.  You name 'em, we know 'em.  Through our many encounters we rarely see another face that looks like ours when we go to meet with these firms the entire time we're in their offices.  The paralegal staff, phone receptionists, all white.  Even the mail boys pushing the carts are white. (can a brother at least push the mail cart? is that too much to ask?)   

All of these firms have at most two (2) black partners out of typically 100 partners total.  Most have one (1) out of 100.  Some have 0 out of 100.

I can tell you this: the one (1) and only black partner of Sullivan & Cromwell is a Howard Law grad. 

Each of those firms that I listed, with the exception of Debevoise, has at least, and in some cases several, Howard Law grads as associates.  I didn't catch how many black UVa grads were there, but I'm sure they are there as well.  Before anybody gets up in arms over the exact comparison, consider we're talking about 10 to 15 black (sometimes 20) black associates period, out of say...3 or 400 assocaties at each of these Big Law firms.

Making partner is no reflection of your law school.  In fact law school affiliation is a completely collateral issue when considering who makes partner.  At that stage in the game its all about who make the firm the most money, and of those people that make the firm the most money, which one do the current partners want to give a piece of the pie.  Very few of us, for whatever reason, make it past both prongs and into the realm of Big Law partner.

I hope I've been able to complicate the issue even more  ;)

With your drive, you will do well at either one, but at least you know you've got Lacoste at UVa to lean on.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: divo72 on January 31, 2006, 06:26:09 PM
If you are truly interested in pursuing a BIGLAW career (or any law-firm for that matter) - check out the NALP directory - you can do a search by firms to see where they do campus recruiting. I work for a prestigious NY law-firm and we recruit at Howard fyi... What I have usually seen (and I feel is common for most NY firms) is  to recruit at the t14, regional NY schools (usually they become Staff Attorneys)  and Howard.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 06:29:42 PM
yeah Sands I was having this conversation with Super earlier...he was talking about all of the partners from UVA.. I asked him how many were black..

#s were the same as HU in that regard.. :D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: divo72 on January 31, 2006, 06:34:02 PM
Oh and the NALP directory also breaks down each firms associate class by race and gender.
It does the same for partners at each firm -by race and gender -
so you can see for yourself

Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 06:38:49 PM
UVA does seem to have a generous LRAP: http://www.law.virginia.edu/home2002/html/publicserv/loanforgive.htm

Didn't see any mentioning of one on Howard's site.  Doesn't mean they don't have one, of course...
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on January 31, 2006, 06:43:46 PM
Go to the more prestigious school my friend.  There are some exceptional people that come out of Howard and Howard alums have done big thing.  You can succeed anywhere, that's up to you.  But like people have said, there's a pretty big difference between UVa and Howard.

Consider that you you will undoubtedly be in a workplace and arena of white males and they will be scrutinizing everything about you.  UVa is instant legitimacy.  When you've got the opportunity, don't let them have a reason to look down on you.  Don't go through life always having to validate yourself by saying "I did go to Howard, but I actually got into Virginia, Georgetown, Northwestern, etc."  The burden of debt will be overcome by the freedom of a highly respected degree.  You think a brother who graduates from Harvard has to stress hard about being unemployed?  Even if he were to lose his job, he could just say "F--- you, I went to Harvard Law."  It's like whipping out a 12" piece.

Truth is, most black students at top schools could have gone to a less competitive school for free.  Trust me, I think the debt load is worth it to carry that credibility and marketability of a top-tier school on your forehead for the rest of your life.  
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 06:44:42 PM
they don't have a LRAP program...they're working on getting it established however... but considering that the education isn't as expensive as most law schools.. and a lot of students earn scholarships...it doesn't seem to be a major priority
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on January 31, 2006, 06:49:46 PM
It's like whipping out a 12" piece.


ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good sh!t, good sh!t.

Jayscoot definitely makes some persuasive arguments here. For THOSE reasons I would be inclined to agree. Especially the part about whuppin out the piece, that's classic. ;D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 06:51:50 PM
they don't have a LRAP program...they're working on getting it established however... but considering that the education isn't as expensive as most law schools.. and a lot of students earn scholarships...it doesn't seem to be a major priority

Just to compare, though (I know super is getting a scholarship):

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_law_debt_brief.php

Average debt for a Howard grad: $74,172, with 83% in debt
Average debt for a UVA grad: $62,294, with 76% in debt
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on January 31, 2006, 06:55:44 PM
And just to let you know where I'm coming from, I turned down full-rides at a lot of top undergraduate schools so that I could go to the very best one.  Considering that I'm going to law school now, I'd have been better off overall if I had gone to one of those other schools, gotten a higher GPA, and been debt-free instead of paying off some nice loans.  But I don't regret it one moment.  I had the best undergraduate experience you can have (in my opinion) and it's worth it just to know I'm metaphorically packing like a mandingo whenever some smug bastard wants to condescend.

(And like I said, that is without any financial benefit, which makes going to the better law school even more important)
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 06:58:37 PM
For all those who are NOT paying off student loans...they are REAL.  Another thing, think about Charlottesville versus DC.  Its a personal decision.  Clearly no one is gonna come on THIS board and pick Howard over UVa.  Some might even clown if you chose HU over UVa, but again its your decision.  Just go and kick ass!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 07:02:40 PM
using Alci's link..let's compare the debt to other  DC area law schools

American University               $98,511 86%
Catholic University of America    $96,915 83%
Georgetown University             $91,795 77%
George Washington University      $82,263 89%
Howard University                 $74,172 83%
 
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on January 31, 2006, 07:33:00 PM
Out of curiosity, would you take Howard over Georgetown?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 07:39:53 PM
I am sure you were asking Blk, but you have to look at other factors other than ranking.  Everyone cannot afford the tuition at a top tiered schools although they may have the "numbers".  Hell, when you factor in living, I would go with the less debt load.  But that's just me.  I already have seen the opposition, but debt is real.  Walking around saying I graduated from Georgetown while working 80 hours a week just to pay off a loan isn't my thing.  But again, just my opinion.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 07:42:04 PM
I would have since Georgetown wasn't a law school I considered...
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 31, 2006, 07:43:49 PM

With your drive, you will do well at either one, but at least you know you've got Lacoste at UVa to lean on.


Sands, you're usually right, but here you're WAAAAYYYY off.  The key benefit of Super going to UVa is that I'll know that I have someone there to lean on!!!   ;D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on January 31, 2006, 07:45:34 PM
I am sure you were asking Blk, but you have to look at other factors other than ranking.  Everyone cannot afford the tuition at a top tiered schools although they may have the "numbers".  Hell, when you factor in living, I would go with the less debt load.  But that's just me.  I already have seen the opposition, but debt is real.  Walking around saying I graduated from Georgetown while working 80 hours a week just to pay off a loan isn't my thing.  But again, just my opinion.

Nah, I understand completely.  It's a matter of your own preference.  For me it's important that THE MAN knows what's up.  I'd say most people can't afford tuition, I sure can't.  Thus the loans.  

BTW, I was asking the original poster, not Blk.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 07:46:06 PM

 :D

With your drive, you will do well at either one, but at least you know you've got Lacoste at UVa to lean on.


Sands, you're usually right, but here you're WAAAAYYYY off.  The key benefit of Super going to UVa is that I'll know that I ahve someone there to lean on!!!   ;D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 07:47:24 PM
I am sure you were asking Blk, but you have to look at other factors other than ranking.  Everyone cannot afford the tuition at a top tiered schools although they may have the "numbers".  Hell, when you factor in living, I would go with the less debt load.  But that's just me.  I already have seen the opposition, but debt is real.  Walking around saying I graduated from Georgetown while working 80 hours a week just to pay off a loan isn't my thing.  But again, just my opinion.

But that's the thing: With the LRAP program, he doesn't have to work 80 hours a week to pay off loans.  He can do public service, government work, whatever.  However, if he choses to work 80 hours a week, he will (1) make enough income so that loan repayments stretched out over 10 years are almost negligble in relation and (2) still have the UVA degree.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 07:49:14 PM
Lacoste...for that reason I do hope that Super goes to UVa.  It would be good for you two to connect.  Then we would have 2 brothers reppin UVa on the board.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 07:53:18 PM
Super just go to UVa...it will make Lacoste happy and Alci.  Do it for them...lol
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 08:00:35 PM
Lol.  I have no personal stake in this.  I just don't see a reason to go to Howard unless it holds some sort of sentimental value for you.  But even that wouldn't be a rational decision.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on January 31, 2006, 08:07:48 PM
You should also ask this question over at the general "Where should I go?" board.  Get the opinion of them, considering they will be pretty much be what most of your colleagues and bosses think and look like... :D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 08:12:18 PM
u already know what they'll say lol..they'll say Howard is a third tier toilet
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 08:14:19 PM
Well I think that is what Alci was saying too.  Just didn't say the words. :D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 08:32:24 PM
Well I think that is what Alci was saying too.  Just didn't say the words. :D

Ha!  I actually think Howard is underrated.  But it should seen for what it is and not glorified.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 31, 2006, 08:38:40 PM

Lol.  I have no personal stake in this. 



I do!!!
  LMAO.  Just playing.   ;D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on January 31, 2006, 08:39:23 PM
u already know what they'll say lol..they'll say Howard is a third tier toilet

That shouldn't matter, but doesn't it though?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on January 31, 2006, 08:58:40 PM
I am sure you were asking Blk, but you have to look at other factors other than ranking.  Everyone cannot afford the tuition at a top tiered schools although they may have the "numbers".  Hell, when you factor in living, I would go with the less debt load.  But that's just me.  I already have seen the opposition, but debt is real.  Walking around saying I graduated from Georgetown while working 80 hours a week just to pay off a loan isn't my thing.  But again, just my opinion.

But that's the thing: With the LRAP program, he doesn't have to work 80 hours a week to pay off loans.  He can do public service, government work, whatever.  However, if he choses to work 80 hours a week, he will (1) make enough income so that loan repayments stretched out over 10 years are almost negligble in relation and (2) still have the UVA degree.

Alci, I'm not tryin to be funny or disrespectful, but this quote makes me curious to ask did you work before you went to law school or are you straight from undergrad to law school?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 09:09:49 PM
Straight through.  Do you have some real-world knowledge for me?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on January 31, 2006, 09:12:14 PM
I'm telling you when you racked up debt, worked, making a good salary, and have started paying loans, perspectives can change on where you will be going to school.  Experience has taught me a lot of life and talking to others on here has taught me a lot of the mindset of those applying to law school.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on January 31, 2006, 09:21:15 PM
uhoh....
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on January 31, 2006, 09:27:30 PM
Straight through.  Do you have some real-world knowledge for me?

That's the impression I got when I was reading your commentary on paying back debt and making mad cheddar.

One word, Alci....taxes.

The epitomy of all that is soul-less and evil in the world.  Life is very theoretical & beautiful until you get back that first check. Then you're like  :o  then you're like  >:(  and then you're like  :'(

...and that's not even including the expressions you make when you get to your first tax season...
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 09:49:57 PM
Oh, well of course.  I've had a job before...just not for more than a couple of months.  I know about taxes.  They should be greatly reduced (IMO).

According to paycheckcity.com (http://www.paycheckcity.com/netpaycalc/netpaycalculator.asp), $140k in NYC (the most expensive place there is) would yield you $84,763.66 after taxes.  Paying back a $100k loan (probably more than you would have) over 10 years at 8.25% APR (also a generous figure) would come out to a payment of $1,226.53 a month (http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi).  I think that's easily doable on $85k take-home...still leaves almost $6k/month.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on January 31, 2006, 10:15:54 PM
Oh, well of course.  I've had a job before...just not for more than a couple of months.  I know about taxes.  They should be greatly reduced (IMO).

According to paycheckcity.com (http://www.paycheckcity.com/netpaycalc/netpaycalculator.asp), $140k in NYC (the most expensive place there is) would yield you $84,763.66 after taxes.  Paying back a $100k loan (probably more than you would have) over 10 years at 8.25% APR (also a generous figure) would come out to a payment of $1,226.53 a month (http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi).  I think that's easily doable on $85k take-home...still leaves almost $6k/month.

Of which you will spend one third of just on rent...then you gotta eat, save, sock it to the 401K, go out, get cabs, buy clothes, help out family, pay the light bill, etc etc
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 10:17:41 PM
If you can't make it on $6k/month take home, then I pity you.

EDIT: Help out family??  Psh.  They can get a damn job.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on January 31, 2006, 10:18:35 PM
Straight through.  Do you have some real-world knowledge for me?

That's the impression I got when I was reading your commentary on paying back debt and making mad cheddar.

One word, Alci....taxes.

The epitomy of all that is soul-less and evil in the world.  Life is very theoretical & beautiful until you get back that first check. Then you're like  :o  then you're like  >:(  and then you're like  :'(

...and that's not even including the expressions you make when you get to your first tax season...


And then you're like...who the !@#%# is FICA and WHY are they eating up all my check!!


And 6K a month doesn't go very far in Manhattan, especially if you are trying to live the lifestyle you think you deserve after 3 years of LS...

Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: LAcreole on January 31, 2006, 10:26:52 PM
Congrads on the full ride at Howard.i think alcibiades has a good point about receiving a degree from uva. It still may not guarantee you a spot in the top law firms, but i have faith that you will. Plus the example of salary seems to balance out to me(unless you plan on balling out of control buying crazy stuff with the first couple of checks)and you can always apply for scholarships while your in there to help with the load of tuition.  In any case whatever school you decide to go to make sure its what you want and give em' hell.Good Luck
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on January 31, 2006, 10:49:20 PM
If you can't make it on $6k/month take home, then I pity you.

EDIT: Help out family??  Psh.  They can get a damn job.

Alci Alci Acli...[shaking head]

Interesting that you think that 6k a month in NYC is a lot of money.... :-\

Alci where are you hailing from if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on January 31, 2006, 10:53:51 PM
Lol.  I didn't say $6k was a lot of money.  I said that you could live off of it.  I have friends in NYC living off of much less than that.  If you (in the general sense) think that the first thing you should do when you get a job is buy a new M6, live in a luxury apartment, and get a Birkin bag, then you have bigger problems than a $1200/month loan.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on January 31, 2006, 11:01:05 PM
Lol.  I didn't say $6k was a lot of money.  I said that you could live off of it.  I have friends in NYC living off of much less than that.  If you (in the general sense) think that the first thing you should do when you get a job is buy a new M6, live in a luxury apartment, and get a Birkin bag, then you have bigger problems than a $1200/month loan.


Or if you wanna help family...


And speaking only for myself, I'm going to LS so I can be UNbroke and able to buy some things that I want, as well as provide for myself and people that I care about. And I agree that 6K take home is liveable, but in NYC that's not really fun (unless you are booed up and spend every weekend home watching Netflix). Plus, that 6K a month aint gon be free...you will earn every penny of it. Chit, try working FORTY hours a week and then get back to a ninja about working 70 or 80...that mess is not a joke.

God forbid one takes out these massive loans and then discovers that they can't hack having staplers thrown at them in BigLaw. I think those of us who have done it can tell you that there is nothing more miserable than being in a job you HATE but you can't quit because you have bills to pay.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on January 31, 2006, 11:18:25 PM
Alci, you didn't wanna answer my "where you from" question?  I can respect it if that's a "no" due to the nature of lurkers on the net. :P

at any rate, can people live off of less that 6k a month in NYC? sure.  Homeless do it everyday for free.  But you don't wanna be homeless, and, I presume, you and many others don't want to live in a one room shoe-box no bigger than the size of your dorm room for $2200 a month either.

Listen to KB on this one.  I've been living out here for a couple years now, met plenty of attorneys, and I have yet to meet a rich law firm associate, or even one that's "well off" as we understand that term.  If you are not investing that money wisely into something else, you will find, as the vast majority of law firm associates do, that you're effectively living from check to check.

BTW, they did a study on Good Morning America that showed that in order to live comfortably in NYC you would have to be clearing $500,000/yr after taxes.  I'm not making this up. 

There's a difference between having had a job and coming from a career.  That difference being reality vs. theoretical.  Theoretically speaking, you should be able to live well off 6k a month.  Theoretically.  Realistically speaking, it doesn't take many non-frivolous expenses to humble 6k into nothingness.  I mean, you could, realisitcally, live like a hermit and not spend any of your money, but what kind of life is that?

Bringing this around full circle, none of this pain and suffering would be necessary for Super if he went to a school with a full ride.  Anybody who's worked out in the world for any number of years will tell you its not so much what you make, its what you don't have to spend that counts.



Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on January 31, 2006, 11:56:45 PM
Thats
Alci, you didn't wanna answer my "where you from" question?  I can respect it if that's a "no" due to the nature of lurkers on the net. :P

at any rate, can people live off of less that 6k a month in NYC? sure.  Homeless do it everyday for free.  But you don't wanna be homeless, and, I presume, you and many others don't want to live in a one room shoe-box no bigger than the size of your dorm room for $2200 a month either.

Listen to KB on this one.  I've been living out here for a couple years now, met plenty of attorneys, and I have yet to meet a rich law firm associate, or even one that's "well off" as we understand that term.  If you are not investing that money wisely into something else, you will find, as the vast majority of law firm associates do, that you're effectively living from check to check.

BTW, they did a study on Good Morning America that showed that in order to live comfortably in NYC you would have to be clearing $500,000/yr after taxes.  I'm not making this up. 

There's a difference between having had a job and coming from a career.  That difference being reality vs. theoretical.  Theoretically speaking, you should be able to live well off 6k a month.  Theoretically.  Realistically speaking, it doesn't take many non-frivolous expenses to humble 6k into nothingness.  I mean, you could, realisitcally, live like a hermit and not spend any of your money, but what kind of life is that?

Bringing this around full circle, none of this pain and suffering would be necessary for Super if he went to a school with a full ride.  Anybody who's worked out in the world for any number of years will tell you its not so much what you make, its what you don't have to spend that counts.





Thats what im thinking sands as far as that last paragraph. I'm good with investing and I know better than to live in the city. But I need my BLSD study partners! How about 3 black students at uva in the top 10%! Finishing my civil procedure aspen commercial outline and about to break out the examples and explantions. and yes I do understand it. Im about te business.

But UVa is UVa. Even being black. I really just want the best opportunites possible. And I want to be respected by my peers.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on February 01, 2006, 05:16:33 AM
Again, I never said $6k/month was fun or that you would live comfortably according to GMA standards.  I just have several friends in NYC.  They ain't making $140k.  They're doing just fine.  Straight out of law school, living in NYC, you can't be too frivolous.  $1200/month isn't that much (and this is beside that fact that it would actually be closer to $750/month, since the average debt at UVA is $62k, not $100k).  You guys are talking like that's enough to make all the difference.  I don't see how making $7200 v. $6k/ month will change very much.  And again, family can take care of themselves (unless you're talking about marriage).

But maybe that's just me talking from my straight-from-undergrad, Bama ass.  I suppose I will find out in "the real world" that I can do infinitely more with an extra $1200/month.  Although I have absolutely no intention of being in NYC, from the way you guys talk, I guess that would get me an extra 5 square feet of living space or something.  Man, what a difference that would make!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Inquirer on February 01, 2006, 06:43:43 AM


But UVa is UVa. Even being black. I really just want the best opportunites possible. And I want to be respected by my peers.
[/quote]

Super --

I basically agree with the posters who've said that it makes good fiscal sense to attend a school with a full ride, instead of banking on the fact that you MIGHT get a good job after you go to a higher ranked school with no scholarship money.

The reason I've quoted part of your statement is because I was a bit taken aback by the last sentence. No matter where you go, and no matter what you do, people are going to think whatever they want about you.  Go to UVa. - you were clearly an AA admit and you're just going to pad the bottom half of the curve. Go to HU - you just couldn't get in a top tier school and all of those firms that come to the school will never hire you because the legal education is sub-par.  Ultimately, respect is earned - not given. And as a black person (especially as a black male), you're going to have to work 2 times harder for the "respect" you apparently seek, no matter what school you attend.

Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: likewise on February 01, 2006, 07:09:09 AM
I've scanned through this thread, so I apologize in advance if my comments are redundant.

I'd be wary of listening to advice predicated solely on an economic analysis of the situation.  Law school is a life change and a career change whose impacts are far greater than monetary. Is the OP becoming an attorney merely because he's looking to impact his financial staus in life?  If I were to guess, I'd say no--at least not entirely.

Howard may be third tier in US News rankings, but it certainly isn't among black attorneys.  Howard may not provide as much security in obtaining BIGLAW employment, but many (if not most) students aren't even certain of what law they'd like to pursue until the end of their second year. 

The OP has been given a wonderful opportunity.  Howard does not have the endowment that upper tier LSs have:  they don't hand out full rides to many folks.  And it is an extraordinarily well-respected law school in many circles.

Having NOT done a complete analysis AND not standing in the OP's shoes, I can still say my gut would tell me to go to Howard.

 
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on February 01, 2006, 07:14:56 AM
here's an idea..go to a university where you'd have the least amount of debt bust your arse and do your best..that will probably put you in the top 10% if you cut out extra curriculars especially your 1L (take one day for yourself though so there can be a sense of balance)...move down to a place like hmmm Houston (still the 4th largest city in the country) for a few yrs making over $100k salary..buy a new home... new car (if you desire these things..afterall you did earn them by being in the grind for 3 yrs right?)...bust your arse in your firm and join the local bar association.... ALSO join the local black bar association...make yourself known during AND after law school.. you're writing your own ticket with no state taxes... home ownership....a sizeable bank account... and happiness...

ah sounds easy eh? at the end of the day what can lead to the demise of an individual is worrying about what their peers think....  of course you can take all that I've said with a grain of salt.. but let me put it to you this way.. I walked away from some pretty good offers in DC and Chicago because I realized that

1- Money wasn't everything...

2- I had no debt from law school..

3- I didn't want to work like a slave..

4-I wanted a new home built from the ground up under $300k without having to share a wall in a MAJOR city (not going to happen in DC or NY but I'm sure you know this)

5-contrary to popular belief even though a firm like  Wachtell pays first yr associates $140k there are only 4 BLACK associates and 1 BLACK partner...0 members of counsel...0 staff attorneys..

bottom line.. that's the case for most firms unless you go into private practice..and regardless of where you go(for school)..or what firm you work for...you're always going to have to deal with white shoe firms...racist associates and racist clients...the question that you need to ask yourself is how much debt you're willing to go into to deal with these people M-F and ocassional Saturdays?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: 2Lacoste on February 01, 2006, 07:49:05 AM
Thats
Alci, you didn't wanna answer my "where you from" question?  I can respect it if that's a "no" due to the nature of lurkers on the net. :P

at any rate, can people live off of less that 6k a month in NYC? sure.  Homeless do it everyday for free.  But you don't wanna be homeless, and, I presume, you and many others don't want to live in a one room shoe-box no bigger than the size of your dorm room for $2200 a month either.

Listen to KB on this one.  I've been living out here for a couple years now, met plenty of attorneys, and I have yet to meet a rich law firm associate, or even one that's "well off" as we understand that term.  If you are not investing that money wisely into something else, you will find, as the vast majority of law firm associates do, that you're effectively living from check to check.

BTW, they did a study on Good Morning America that showed that in order to live comfortably in NYC you would have to be clearing $500,000/yr after taxes.  I'm not making this up. 

There's a difference between having had a job and coming from a career.  That difference being reality vs. theoretical.  Theoretically speaking, you should be able to live well off 6k a month.  Theoretically.  Realistically speaking, it doesn't take many non-frivolous expenses to humble 6k into nothingness.  I mean, you could, realisitcally, live like a hermit and not spend any of your money, but what kind of life is that?

Bringing this around full circle, none of this pain and suffering would be necessary for Super if he went to a school with a full ride.  Anybody who's worked out in the world for any number of years will tell you its not so much what you make, its what you don't have to spend that counts.





Thats what im thinking sands as far as that last paragraph. I'm good with investing and I know better than to live in the city. But I need my BLSD study partners! How about 3 black students at uva in the top 10%! Finishing my civil procedure aspen commercial outline and about to break out the examples and explantions. and yes I do understand it. Im about te business.




It's entirely possible man -- I'm finishing up my Aspen E&E on Torts this week!  (Waiting for wrath of those that told my Black a$$ not to try to "prep" for first-year).

And though I respect the above posters, I have to respectfully disagree.  Sure, no job is GUARANTEED at UVa -- but so long as you dont flunk out, you're in a VERY good position to get a solid job.  Perhaps in an even better position in the middle of the pack at UVa than at the middle-to-top of Howard.  Yes, there is a dearth of Black lawyers in BigLaw no matter where you went to school.  But you best believe that the old boys' network is going to look at their pecking order of schools when looking to "diversify."  The first couple of associate seats (if that many) for Blacks will go to Blacks from the Trinity most likely (HYS), then proceed with the typical lawyer's list of traditionally strong schools (which, from what I hear, encompasses UVa but not newer T14 schools like GULC or Duke, and sometimes not even older more prestigious schools like Penn).

Just think -- in a white man's world (BigLaw), what school will open the more doors, ceteris paribus?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: crazy8 on February 01, 2006, 08:03:12 AM
Though not in law school yet, I have worked in 2 BIG Firms over the years.  What blk is saying is very true.  The firm I currently work in has no black male associates, and the 2 females who are here both graduated from HOWARD!!!  But there are no black partners, nor even Black senior associates.  I'm sure they started off making at least $130k per year, but they rarely attend office functions and don't hobnob with the other associates.  Needless to say, graduating from Howard, they probably do not have as much debt as many of the other associates who work there, but I will say they don't seem happy (just my observation because they stick to themselves) and are not in the "inner circle" so most likely will not make partner. 

That may not matter to them, but it may matter to some.  From my experience working in these firms, I doubt I'll do the BigFirm thing for long.  Depending on what school I get into (please please!) and how much debt I have, I will do it to stack some paper, then I want to live comfortably, and happy, helping my peoples!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 08:06:16 AM
Though not in law school yet, I have worked in 2 BIG Firms over the years.  What blk is saying is very true.  The firm I currently work in has no black male associates, and the 2 who are here both graduated from HOWARD!!!  But there are no black partners, nor even Black senior associates.  I'm sure they started of making at least $130k per year, but they rarely attend office functions and don't hobnob with the other associates.  Needless to say, graduating from Howard, they probably do not have as much debt as many of the other associates who work there, but I will say they don't seem happy (just my observation because they stick to themselves) and are not in the "inner circle" so most likely will not make partner. 

That may not matter to them, but it may matter to some.  From my experience working in these firms, I doubt I'll do the BigFirm thing for long.  Depending on what school I get into (please please!) and how much debt I have, I will do it to stack some paper, then I want to live comfortably, and happy, helping my peoples!

I work in a medium sized Atlanta firm and there are NO black associates. Zero. Cero. Nada. Not a 1. And there is one Black partner, but he didn't "make" partner as he helped start the firm.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Slow Blues on February 01, 2006, 08:13:16 AM


It's entirely possible man -- I'm finishing up my Aspen E&E on Torts this week!  (Waiting for wrath of those that told my Black a$$ not to try to "prep" for first-year).

Off-topic, but how did this go? I'm getting my E&E on Civ Pro this week. I figure I'll do Civ Pro in February, then Property in March, followed by Contracts, Torts, Constitutional Law, and Criminal Law.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 08:16:31 AM
Hey, where'd yall get the E&Es? How much can I expect to shell out?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on February 01, 2006, 08:23:38 AM
I'm just curious, why are ya'll reading those books already?  Is this something you are doing on your own or is it suggested reading from your prospective law schools?

Bottom line Super...you are going to be BLACK at UVa and BLACK at Howard.  You've heard advice from people who have WORK experience, those who are speculating, and those who probably don't have a clue what they are talking about.  Go where you see fit, but don't go to a school b/c you want respect from your peers.  Your peers will not be the ones to buy the toilet paper that you wipe your arse with so throw that vision out of the window brother.  At the end of the day, you have to pass the bar and be successful, but you are still a BLACK male.  I keep re-reading what Inquirer said.....REAL TALK!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Slow Blues on February 01, 2006, 08:23:56 AM
Diamond, you can get them on Amazon. New, they're $37.95 each... used, around $22-25 (for one without highlighting and all that). If you're thorough, you'll want six, one for each 1st year required course.

intent, I'm doing this on my own. My school didn't recommend anything in the way of reading. I'm doing it to understand the basic concepts underpinning these courses.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 01, 2006, 08:24:46 AM
amazon.com I got some beat up ones it really helps you get it.

The way everyone is talking it seems like I shouldnt even do BIGLAW. I mean I've worked in old boys clubs before slaving seven days a week. I can hanle that. But it wont a big take home if I'm gonna go through it so Howard is sounding nice.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 01, 2006, 09:29:10 AM
 http://www.sullcrom.com/lawyers/detail.aspx?id=659a0f27-4bb6-434a-8245-c1b5590d1cdf&pid=&iid=&rid=
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 09:32:43 AM
ALBANY STATE!! WOOT WOOT! The few people in my extended fam who went to college went there :)
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: crazy8 on February 01, 2006, 09:39:54 AM
http://www.sullcrom.com/lawyers/detail.aspx?id=659a0f27-4bb6-434a-8245-c1b5590d1cdf&pid=&iid=&rid=

Yes, but that Harvard LLM I'm sure helped. He joined the firm after the LLM.  But it has given me hope that there are many directions that can get to the same point (except if you haven't gotten into someone's law school yet).
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on February 01, 2006, 09:40:53 AM
[sigh] I digress (despite the fact that no one has pointed out why $6k/month is so frugal...I provided figures; where are yours?).  Anyway, I have too much work to do.  Super, don't be led astray by faulty logic.  That is all I have to say on the subject.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: crazy8 on February 01, 2006, 09:49:28 AM
I just found this for any interested 1L's:

The Kirkland & Ellis LLP Minority Scholarship Program.  Kirkland & Ellis LLP has sponsored programs as a means of providing financial aid to minority law students.  Through Kirkland's Minority Scholarship Program, the Firm sponsored 16 scholarships at Northwestern University School of Law and the University of Chicago Law School, providing $304,000 in minority scholarship awards.

 


The Kirkland & Ellis LLP Minority Fellowship Program.  In the Fall of 2004, Kirkland expanded its minority scholarship program, establishing the Kirkland & Ellis LLP Minority Fellowship Program at 14 law schools across the country.  The Kirkland Minority Fellowship awards a $15,000 stipend and a summer associate position in one of our Firm’s five domestic offices.  Minority law students who have completed their second year of law school are eligible to apply.  Finalists who do not receive a Fellowship may receive an offer to join the summer associate program.  The law schools at which the Fellowship has been implemented include:  Boalt Hall School of Law-University of California, Berkeley; UCLA School of Law; University of Chicago Law School; Columbia Law School; Georgetown University Law Center; Harvard Law School; Howard University School of Law; University of Michigan Law School; New York University School of Law; Northwestern University School of Law; Notre Dame Law School; University of Southern California Law School; Stanford Law School; and Yale Law School. For an application, please click on the link entitled “Kirkland & Ellis LLP Minority Fellowship” found on the top right side of this page.

 

Achieving a level of diversity that is satisfactory to Kirkland is an on-going process, and one that we believe involves many measures.  The underlying goal of the Kirkland Minority Fellowship is to facilitate an increase of minority lawyers within the Firm, and more broadly, the practice of law.   

 

[sigh] I digress (despite the fact that no one has pointed out why $6k/month is so frugal...I provided figures; where are yours?).  Anyway, I have too much work to do.  Super, don't be led astray by faulty logic.  That is all I have to say on the subject.

In terms of $6K/mth, I think you can survive on that in NY (being that I'm from there).  Of course you won't be living on the upper west side, and may not be able to frequent the 40/40 club (if that's your style) or enjoy all that NY has to offer, but you'll be able to pay rent (in a small apartment with a roommate) and eat.  NYers are hustlas who know how to survive in that crazy town...Super it's doable, depending on your lifestyle!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 09:56:15 AM
[sigh] I digress (despite the fact that no one has pointed out why $6k/month is so frugal...I provided figures; where are yours?).  Anyway, I have too much work to do.  Super, don't be led astray by faulty logic.  That is all I have to say on the subject.

Nobody is saying its not doable, we're just pointing out that you won't be living the lifestyle one would think one could have on a 125K salary. There is a certain maturity and understanding about money that comes with having held down a full time job (not internship) and not living in your momma's house - and until you do that, you don't realize how much little crap comes up that you have to pay for. There are SO many unanticipated expenses associated with the "real world" and you don't really get it till you get there. No one is bashing you for not having had this experience, Alci, we're just pointing out that you haven't had it. All we're saying is that associate salaries ain't really that much money in practical terms, and that's something to think about when thinking about debt load.

And just for the record, I think super should go to UVA. To me, it's not even a debate. The debt load will work itself out in the long run, but he needs to know that that $1K a month can put a lil bit of a dent in the baller lifestyle for those first few years outta school.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Ed on February 01, 2006, 09:57:10 AM
Super:

I had to delete my earlier post because I realized after I posted it...wrong forum. However, please...PLEASE...go talk to some brothers face-to-face who are where you think you want to be after ten years in the legal game.

And, anyone else who really thinks a decision like the one super is making—Howard + the cost of a few living expenses vs UVA for about $90,000 after the financial package they will offer you—warrants this kind of deliberation, please...PLEASE...go talk to someone who was as much like you at your age (race, gender, academic achievements, professional achievements, law school acceptances, etc.) before law school and is now very much like you want to be ten years after law school.

Honestly, I am pretty sure that Vernon Jordan himself, the most powerful man to ever come out of Howard Law School, would tell you to take your ass to UVA or another T10 for $75,000 to $125,000 out of your pocket if necessary. He would tell you that because he understands the power game. And, I advise you to put down those E&E's and go find some more money so you can go to a T10 for fewer than $50,000. But, hey, who in the hell am I?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: 2Lacoste on February 01, 2006, 10:28:20 AM
Super:

I advise you to put down those E&E's and go find some more money so you can go to a T10 for fewer than $50,000. But, hey, who in the hell am I?

$50 K in debt, $100 K in debt, same thing to my broke ass.  I'd rather make sure I get whatever foundation I need to ace first-year, make law review, and increase my ability to land a very well paying job than to worry about finding money now (if at the expense of first-year grades) and wind up with a lesser paying job later.  Just me though lol.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: 2Lacoste on February 01, 2006, 10:31:03 AM


It's entirely possible man -- I'm finishing up my Aspen E&E on Torts this week!  (Waiting for wrath of those that told my Black a$$ not to try to "prep" for first-year).

Off-topic, but how did this go? I'm getting my E&E on Civ Pro this week. I figure I'll do Civ Pro in February, then Property in March, followed by Contracts, Torts, Constitutional Law, and Criminal Law.

I'm doing a very similar schedule.  I'm going through and working on the E&Es for each of the Big Six over the next six months.  I'm also working through Delaney's Learning Legal Reasoning and his book on taking law school exams.  Finally, I might consider investing in the LEEWS system if I find enough worthwhile reviews.  But I have only begun to undertake this study schedule, so I can't attest to the worth of any of it.  The Torts E&E felt like a good place to start because some of its themes run through all types of other classes.

EDIT:  Just noticed your avatar (I'm slow).  I've been listening to Jimi on repeat for the last couple of weeks or so.  Random mood, timeless sound.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 01, 2006, 10:41:56 AM
Wish I had your problem. If it were UVA vs. say UCLA+free ride, then I might say UCLA. The only thing I'm concerned about is this: assuming little or no scholarship money and ergo debt ( I personally don't know many weathly minority law students), wouldn't your career choice be constrained by the $100K plus debt hanging over your head? Big law is no joke..its even worse than working in Big 4 accounting or at Accenture, AT Kearney, McKinsey etc..the hours are REALLY REALLY BAD!! If you have little or no experience in such a work life, you are in for a hard core rude awakening. For example, (I think its at Jones Day), you would need to bank like 2000 billable hours a year. A regular work schedule is 2080 hours a year but its not all billable so in reality the comparative is for 1 billable hour, you might have to work about 1.5-1.8 hours which translates to a about 70+ hrs a week!!! I have a cousin at Allen & Overy and he says he hardly sees his kids during the week days cos he comes home so late from work and almost always works on weekends. Now I'm not trying to scare you cos as far as I am concerned, if there is one person alive doing this, then so can you and I.

However, if you want to go into politics (say work on Capitol Hill) etc, you know you won't get paid much (same thing if you are a clerk). But you make loads of contacts that pay dividends in the future..will you trade that for the $140k per year job at Skadden/DLA or Allen & Overy! Sure you should, but then you better have a plan to pay off your bills in time. Its a balancing act and I'm sure you'll get mad $$ when you are done from being say a clerk to future SCJ Sonia Sotomayor or Counsel to US Senate Finance Committee etc. But you better bust your ass like crazy at school so at least when you graduate you won't feel like having to settle for a big law job when u can get a clerkship/political job earn less for say 5 yrs and then make mad money and pay of a big chunk of your student loans.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 01, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
[sigh] I digress (despite the fact that no one has pointed out why $6k/month is so frugal...I provided figures; where are yours?).  Anyway, I have too much work to do.  Super, don't be led astray by faulty logic.  That is all I have to say on the subject.

Nobody is saying its not doable, we're just pointing out that you won't be living the lifestyle one would think one could have on a 125K salary. There is a certain maturity and understanding about money that comes with having held down a full time job (not internship) and not living in your momma's house - and until you do that, you don't realize how much little crap comes up that you have to pay for. There are SO many unanticipated expenses associated with the "real world" and you don't really get it till you get there. No one is bashing you for not having had this experience, Alci, we're just pointing out that you haven't had it. All we're saying is that associate salaries ain't really that much money in practical terms, and that's something to think about when thinking about debt load.

And just for the record, I think super should go to UVA. To me, it's not even a debate. The debt load will work itself out in the long run, but he needs to know that that $1K a month can put a lil bit of a dent in the baller lifestyle for those first few years outta school.

Co-sign.

Like I said earlier, no disrespect to Alci, but generally speaking, students who have no real world experience are like goldfish with big eyes - their perspective is a little skewed.

Far be it for my engineering blood to turn down a challenge on numbers...

For starters, assuming Super gets UVa to give him in-state from day 1, you're talking $26k for tuition + 15k for living expenses, which brings us to a total of $41k each of his 3 years in law school, for a grand total of $123,000 dollars and 00 cents.  Do you know what a $123,000 loan paid back over a period of 10 years becomes?  The answer is no $123,000.  $123k loan spread out over 10 years, assuming an interest rate most favorable to your argument, would yield a repayment of $178,000.  So lets start with that number, because that is, afterall the real figure we're talking about here for our brother Super.  (sorry Super, but you are the subject matter of this debate)

$178k divided by 10 years = $17,800 each year, which is just south of $1500 a month.  That's one thousand five hundred dollars that comes out of your pocket every single month no matter if you work for big law or you get fired from big law.  When you consider what has been demonstrated here on this thread, backed up by real world evidence from nalpdirectory.com , many associates, especially black associates, do not last 5 years in big law, let alone the 10 years you need to repay this loan.  Think about that. 

What does that mean for many law firm associates?  The story that they DON'T see with those big goldfish eyes is that many associates ride a firm out for as long as they can (3 to 4 years avg.), either leave or get fired, and hop over to another firm and repeat this cycle until they can finally pay off the debt that they accumulated for themselves in law school, because not working is not an option.  This typically means working as an associate doing hours you don't like for people you don't like so that you can repay a school loan that you could have avoided in the first place.

No debt is perhaps the best option possibly imaginable, but that doesn't resonate with pre-laws who have no prior work experience b/c they see $125k a year and think all problems will be solved.  "you can make 6 figures and it will be great!"

Even outside of a city like New York, $125k is not the lottery.  In NY, again, not to beat a dead horse but apartments range from $2,000 a month (one room roach motel) to $20,000 a month (3 bedrooms and your own bathroom) and beyond.  Yes I said TWENTY THOUSAND.  20.  $6k a month can't even make a dent in that.  But I digress.


There seem to be 2 propositions here we have to distinguish:

The first is Debt v. No Debt.

The Second is Prestige v. Less Prestige

Because we're not arguing Job Security v. No Job Security or even Options v. No Options.

The first proposition raises a major flag primarily to those of us who are coming from careers and can place debt inside of a real context.

The second proposition raises a major flag primarily to those of us who do not have that real context.

Again, the choice is yours, Super.  I think you'll kick ass at either.  OH, and by the way, you and Lacoste....[shaking head]...like the kid who can't take his hand off the stove you both are just determined to "prepare" for law school huh?  I don't have any energy left to even begin to argue with ya'll on that topic.  I done tried to told ya....


 
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 01, 2006, 11:23:21 AM
Sands u are really on point buit I think Lacoste and Super are pretty much going to go to UVA (all things as is), and will incur the debt accordingly. I have no problems with that..I got into a Top 20 private school and right now I'm begging for a much cheaper Top 20 Public School. In any case, my advice would be (even with the accrued interest effec of $1500 per month for 10 yrs).. (1) Live as cheaply as you can in law school (2) Make sure you get a summer job each year that PAYS too (3) DO NOT and I REPEAT DO NOT..borrow more than the absolute minimum necesary (4) Look for outside grants or aid every year until u are done (you never know what you will find) and FINALLY (as if) (5) STUDY LIKE YOUR ENTIRE LIFE DEPENDED ON IT..cos when u graduate Top 10% you can chose to go clerk for a few years, suffer the pain of $1500 a month, make mad contacts and come to Big Law for much more money than a starting associate and with less work demands cos you'd know so much already. At least you can say you chose Big Law not cos you had debt staring at you like an AK-47 in the hands of an Abu-Sayef terrorist.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 01, 2006, 11:31:03 AM
Sands u are really on point buit I think Lacoste and Super are pretty much going to go to UVA (all things as is), and will incur the debt accordingly. I have no problems with that..I got into a Top 20 private school and right now I'm begging for a much cheaper Top 20 Public School. In any case, my advice would be (even with the accrued interest effec of $1500 per month for 10 yrs).. (1) Live as cheaply as you can in law school (2) Make sure you get a summer job each year that PAYS too (3) DO NOT and I REPEAT DO NOT..borrow more than the absolute minimum necesary (4) Look for outside grants or aid every year until u are done (you never know what you will find) and FINALLY (as if) (5) STUDY LIKE YOUR ENTIRE LIFE DEPENDED ON IT..cos when u graduate Top 10% you can chose to go clerk for a few years, suffer the pain of $1500 a month, make mad contacts and come to Big Law for much more money than a starting associate and with less work demands cos you'd know so much already. At least you can say you chose Big Law not cos you had debt staring at you like an AK-47 in the hands of an Abu-Sayef terrorist.

Oh one more thing..stay THE HELL AWAY from chickenheads or free loafers!! Make sure you end up with a woman who wants something in life for herself just as she wants you. A Successful, goal oriented conservative spending woman ... many of them work in the medical profession ( I married a surgeon and at least I know the financial burden won't all be on me  :D)
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on February 01, 2006, 12:33:39 PM
Again, I never said $6k/month was fun or that you would live comfortably according to GMA standards.  I just have several friends in NYC.  They ain't making $140k.  They're doing just fine.  Straight out of law school, living in NYC, you can't be too frivolous.  $1200/month isn't that much (and this is beside that fact that it would actually be closer to $750/month, since the average debt at UVA is $62k, not $100k).  You guys are talking like that's enough to make all the difference.  I don't see how making $7200 v. $6k/ month will change very much.  And again, family can take care of themselves (unless you're talking about marriage).

But maybe that's just me talking from my straight-from-undergrad, Bama ass.  I suppose I will find out in "the real world" that I can do infinitely more with an extra $1200/month.  Although I have absolutely no intention of being in NYC, from the way you guys talk, I guess that would get me an extra 5 square feet of living space or something.  Man, what a difference that would make!

I actually agree with you both in terms of choosing the school and the financial elements of living in NYC.  I think your point could be made without the faux-modest condescension though.

And also, you can only speak for yourself when you say "family can take care of themselves."  Many of us come from situations that make helping our family the primary motivator behind the drive for financial success.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on February 01, 2006, 12:42:10 PM
[sigh] I digress (despite the fact that no one has pointed out why $6k/month is so frugal...I provided figures; where are yours?).  Anyway, I have too much work to do.  Super, don't be led astray by faulty logic.  That is all I have to say on the subject.

Nobody is saying its not doable, we're just pointing out that you won't be living the lifestyle one would think one could have on a 125K salary. There is a certain maturity and understanding about money that comes with having held down a full time job (not internship) and not living in your momma's house - and until you do that, you don't realize how much little crap comes up that you have to pay for. There are SO many unanticipated expenses associated with the "real world" and you don't really get it till you get there. No one is bashing you for not having had this experience, Alci, we're just pointing out that you haven't had it. All we're saying is that associate salaries ain't really that much money in practical terms, and that's something to think about when thinking about debt load.

And just for the record, I think super should go to UVA. To me, it's not even a debate. The debt load will work itself out in the long run, but he needs to know that that $1K a month can put a lil bit of a dent in the baller lifestyle for those first few years outta school.

Co-sign.

Like I said earlier, no disrespect to Alci, but generally speaking, students who have no real world experience are like goldfish with big eyes - their perspective is a little skewed.

Far be it for my engineering blood to turn down a challenge on numbers...

For starters, assuming Super gets UVa to give him in-state from day 1, you're talking $26k for tuition + 15k for living expenses, which brings us to a total of $41k each of his 3 years in law school, for a grand total of $123,000 dollars and 00 cents.  Do you know what a $123,000 loan paid back over a period of 10 years becomes?  The answer is no $123,000.  $123k loan spread out over 10 years, assuming an interest rate most favorable to your argument, would yield a repayment of $178,000.  So lets start with that number, because that is, afterall the real figure we're talking about here for our brother Super.  (sorry Super, but you are the subject matter of this debate)

$178k divided by 10 years = $17,800 each year, which is just south of $1500 a month.  That's one thousand five hundred dollars that comes out of your pocket every single month no matter if you work for big law or you get fired from big law.  When you consider what has been demonstrated here on this thread, backed up by real world evidence from nalpdirectory.com , many associates, especially black associates, do not last 5 years in big law, let alone the 10 years you need to repay this loan.  Think about that. 

What does that mean for many law firm associates?  The story that they DON'T see with those big goldfish eyes is that many associates ride a firm out for as long as they can (3 to 4 years avg.), either leave or get fired, and hop over to another firm and repeat this cycle until they can finally pay off the debt that they accumulated for themselves in law school, because not working is not an option.  This typically means working as an associate doing hours you don't like for people you don't like so that you can repay a school loan that you could have avoided in the first place.

No debt is perhaps the best option possibly imaginable, but that doesn't resonate with pre-laws who have no prior work experience b/c they see $125k a year and think all problems will be solved.  "you can make 6 figures and it will be great!"

Even outside of a city like New York, $125k is not the lottery.  In NY, again, not to beat a dead horse but apartments range from $2,000 a month (one room roach motel) to $20,000 a month (3 bedrooms and your own bathroom) and beyond.  Yes I said TWENTY THOUSAND.  20.  $6k a month can't even make a dent in that.  But I digress.


There seem to be 2 propositions here we have to distinguish:

The first is Debt v. No Debt.

The Second is Prestige v. Less Prestige

Because we're not arguing Job Security v. No Job Security or even Options v. No Options.

The first proposition raises a major flag primarily to those of us who are coming from careers and can place debt inside of a real context.

The second proposition raises a major flag primarily to those of us who do not have that real context.

Again, the choice is yours, Super.  I think you'll kick ass at either.  OH, and by the way, you and Lacoste....[shaking head]...like the kid who can't take his hand off the stove you both are just determined to "prepare" for law school huh?  I don't have any energy left to even begin to argue with ya'll on that topic.  I done tried to told ya....


 

Sands....you get a big ass SUPER co-sign.  I'll say this again, student loans are REAL!!!  Paying them back is even REALER.  There is a saying that I take to heart.

"I can show you better than I can tell you"

And since we can't show the realities of the "real" world (undergraduate internships do not count in this example), all we can do is tell you.  So make the best decision for you.  If that's UVa, great!  If its Howard, great!  But please, do not go to the school just because of the ranking alone.  We do not know your financial situation, but I am willing to bet that you cannot call on too many of these people when its time to pay that loan back.  I am saying make a wise decision b/c I do NOT agree with working a job just for the money.  And definitely not just to pay back a loan you wouldn't have had to get.  Not directed at anyone in particular, but tunnel vision is a mofo!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on February 01, 2006, 01:34:56 PM
No debt is perhaps the best option possibly imaginable, but that doesn't resonate with pre-laws who have no prior work experience b/c they see $125k a year and think all problems will be solved.  "you can make 6 figures and it will be great!"

Even outside of a city like New York, $125k is not the lottery.  In NY, again, not to beat a dead horse but apartments range from $2,000 a month (one room roach motel) to $20,000 a month (3 bedrooms and your own bathroom) and beyond.  Yes I said TWENTY THOUSAND.  20.  $6k a month can't even make a dent in that.  But I digress.


There seem to be 2 propositions here we have to distinguish:

The first is Debt v. No Debt.

The Second is Prestige v. Less Prestige

Because we're not arguing Job Security v. No Job Security or even Options v. No Options.

The first proposition raises a major flag primarily to those of us who are coming from careers and can place debt inside of a real context.

The second proposition raises a major flag primarily to those of us who do not have that real context.

Again, the choice is yours, Super.  I think you'll kick ass at either.  OH, and by the way, you and Lacoste....[shaking head]...like the kid who can't take his hand off the stove you both are just determined to "prepare" for law school huh?  I don't have any energy left to even begin to argue with ya'll on that topic.  I done tried to told ya....

I think you give excellent advice, but I can't say I completely agree with everything.  First of all, $20,000/mo. apartments shouldn't even be mentioned in this discussion.  So let's go back down to the $2,000/mo. option, which you claim is the minimum.  First of all, don't forget that you can get a very nice place in Brooklyn, Jersey City, Queens, etc. for significantly less than that.  And when I say "very nice" I mean clean, multiple bed/bath, close to public transportation, in a decent neighborhood, etc.  But even in the city, as long as you're not trying to stay close to midtown, you can get a nice place for $2,000.  Check Harlem, there are nice luxury apts. up there now.  Also UES and downtown... And of course this is all assuming you're living by yourself and not with any roommates.

Just so you know my POV, I've been working and living in the city for going on three years now, making MUCH (MUCH) less than 140K, and I've been getting by fairly well.  These guys will still be young when they get out of school.  They can work hard and play hard and they can go through the learning experience that most people do when they enter the real world.

BTW, I'm taking your advice on (not) preparing for law school to the max.  There's no way I'm picking up textbooks in the immediate future. :D

Quote
But please, do not go to the school just because of the ranking alone.

I agree, but I think the difference here is more substantial than any rankings.  This isn't UVa vs. Duke or even UVa. vs. BC.  These two schools, UVa and Howard, are held in entirely different regards.  Affirmative action or not, you go to UVa and folks know you obtained a certain high level of academic achievement to get in.  You graduate from there and they know you've received a legal education from some of the best faculty in the country and competed against some of the best students in the country.  You go to Howard and you have to constantly validate your abilities:  graduate top 10%, tell people around town that you "could have gone to Georgetown," and then have to prove that your intellect is on par with UVa grads, etc.  Like I said, you'll almost certainly be working in a nearly all white workplace.  So you have to think about it from that perspective.  I really do think that the debt will be made up for within a few years in the workplace and then after that, you've still got that prestigious degree working for you, as Alci commented.

I just think it's important that the top black students go to schools that will give them the best chances to succeed and receive the respect they deserve.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 01, 2006, 01:37:33 PM
Sands u are really on point buit I think Lacoste and Super are pretty much going to go to UVA (all things as is), and will incur the debt accordingly. I have no problems with that..I got into a Top 20 private school and right now I'm begging for a much cheaper Top 20 Public School. In any case, my advice would be (even with the accrued interest effec of $1500 per month for 10 yrs).. (1) Live as cheaply as you can in law school (2) Make sure you get a summer job each year that PAYS too (3) DO NOT and I REPEAT DO NOT..borrow more than the absolute minimum necesary (4) Look for outside grants or aid every year until u are done (you never know what you will find) and FINALLY (as if) (5) STUDY LIKE YOUR ENTIRE LIFE DEPENDED ON IT..cos when u graduate Top 10% you can chose to go clerk for a few years, suffer the pain of $1500 a month, make mad contacts and come to Big Law for much more money than a starting associate and with less work demands cos you'd know so much already. At least you can say you chose Big Law not cos you had debt staring at you like an AK-47 in the hands of an Abu-Sayef terrorist.

LOL

true dat true dat! ;D
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: 2Lacoste on February 01, 2006, 01:38:38 PM
I was planning on going to UVa no matter what, so whatever the money comes down to, I'm going.  And I don't plan on doing BigLaw.  Or work in corporate for my summers.

I just plan on being broke (and happy).

lacoste
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 01, 2006, 01:44:54 PM


And also, you can only speak for yourself when you say "family can take care of themselves."  Many of us come from situations that make helping our family the primary motivator behind the drive for financial success.

Jayscoot, you hit the nail on the head, homie.  That IS my primary motivating factor for trying to make it out here.  I can't afford to slack off b/c my outcome effects more people than just myself.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: angmill08 on February 01, 2006, 01:57:13 PM
Being debt free will give you real options right after law school to take a job that doesn't pay much and at the same time buy a house/support a family/save for retirement/children's college/make financial investments, etc...

Recent grads living in big cities on $6000/mo. are not doing these things, by and large.

But... if you don't feel that concerned about those things right now, or are more concerned about the harder-to-quantify career options that a top school will give you via prestige, networks & connections (I think there will be some) then go to UVA.

Honestly, that's what I'd do if I were in your position.

Also, I agree with jayscoot on the cost of living argument: I used to live in NYC on about $4000/mo (before taxes) and had a blast, although I lived in an unfashionable neighborhood, had roomates, ate & drank out only at neighborhood dives, didn't take cabs, didn't worry about retirement, supported no dependents, had no major health problems and saved no money. I have many friends in NYC doing this right now. You won't want to do it forever, but while you're young, it's well worth it to economize like this in service of your goals, imo.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 02:01:34 PM
Basically @ sands and jayscoot.

I didn't want to say it before because I felt it went without saying, but not all of us are fortunate enough to come from a situation where family members will not be dependant on our help. Or, some of us know that family members would not be in a position to help...if I was eyeball deep in student debt and something crazy happened, my folks wouldn't be able to help me with NADA except for maybe some gas money.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on February 01, 2006, 02:10:59 PM


And also, you can only speak for yourself when you say "family can take care of themselves."  Many of us come from situations that make helping our family the primary motivator behind the drive for financial success.

Jayscoot, you hit the nail on the head, homie.  That IS my primary motivating factor for trying to make it out here.  I can't afford to slack off b/c my outcome effects more people than just myself.

I would like to say that I commend Jay and Sands for keeping it real with one of their motivators for financial success.  SOME may not think it is noble to help family or have the "getityocotdamnself" mentality, but I am feeling the both of your mindsets.  Moving on, its soooo funny that we are even debating this topic and sharing ideas, but I want to add this perspective.  UVa is a great school, can't deny that.  But we've talked about the law firms who go there.  There are several of them...can't deny that either.  Now, here we go.  One edge that I think Howard has OVER UVa is that firms are going to Howard for the cream of the crop minority students.  I think at UVa their focus may not be the exact same.  They may want the cream of the crop, PERIOD.  Remember, no matter what anyone says, the same firms that recruit at UVa, recruit at Howard, end of story.

We have to look at this through the "white" mans eyes.  They see Howard as "their" (meaning Black folks) university.  Hell, they even pump millions of dollars into programs at Howard b/c they know that they are doing something at a premier Black institution AND will get something out of it.  Let's face it, Howard is the Harvard of HBCUs in many "white" peoples eyes.  If they can pick a brother (or sister) from Howard, they know they have a top notch lawyer coming at them.  Some of you guys are acting like we are comparing Harvard to Thomas Cooley.

While I believe this conversation is a very good one (can't believe its gone on this long), I have realized that we have just as many "elitists" on BLSD as there are on the other board.  Just makes me laugh.  I would have rather it started and ended with "Super, you are going to do great at either school, make the best choice for you".  So what happens if he chooses Howard?  Are we going to shun him?  I think this is part great discussion, part funny, and part sad.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: angmill08 on February 01, 2006, 02:14:14 PM
...if I was eyeball deep in student debt and something crazy happened, my folks wouldn't be able to help me with NADA except for maybe some gas money.

What kind of crazy thing would be affected by your debt load? If you have a good job, you should also have health insurance and should be able to get a credit card, which would cover the normal situations. Seriously... I'm wondering what kind of crazy thing you are afraid of.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: crazy8 on February 01, 2006, 02:15:00 PM
That's why I'm all for some solid work experience after college before you dive back into school.  Not knocking those who don't choose to work after college, but if definitely gives you a better perspective on things.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 01, 2006, 02:23:06 PM
That's why I'm all for some solid work experience after college before you dive back into school.  Not knocking those who don't choose to work after college, but if definitely gives you a better perspective on things.

Agreed. Also on the point before, if its Howard vs UVA, clearly UVA debt notwithstanding. But if its like UVA vs any other top 15 Public instate, then clearly the public school. But to each his/her own. I've been working for 5 yrs before law school so I do see where u are coming from. I'm quite proud of Lacoste and Super on UVA. Its a solid accomplishment and as long as they aim for the skies, they'll do very well in the future. PS..Lacoste, being broke is REALLY REALLY BAD!! So make sure you get them $$$ anyhow you can.

PS: Just remember if you do decide to go into politics, its a whole new ball game.  Its dirty, rough and treacherous but that's a whole different thread.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on February 01, 2006, 02:26:43 PM
No debt is perhaps the best option possibly imaginable, but that doesn't resonate with pre-laws who have no prior work experience b/c they see $125k a year and think all problems will be solved.  "you can make 6 figures and it will be great!"

Even outside of a city like New York, $125k is not the lottery.  In NY, again, not to beat a dead horse but apartments range from $2,000 a month (one room roach motel) to $20,000 a month (3 bedrooms and your own bathroom) and beyond.  Yes I said TWENTY THOUSAND.  20.  $6k a month can't even make a dent in that.  But I digress.


There seem to be 2 propositions here we have to distinguish:

The first is Debt v. No Debt.

The Second is Prestige v. Less Prestige

Because we're not arguing Job Security v. No Job Security or even Options v. No Options.

The first proposition raises a major flag primarily to those of us who are coming from careers and can place debt inside of a real context.

The second proposition raises a major flag primarily to those of us who do not have that real context.

Again, the choice is yours, Super.  I think you'll kick ass at either.  OH, and by the way, you and Lacoste....[shaking head]...like the kid who can't take his hand off the stove you both are just determined to "prepare" for law school huh?  I don't have any energy left to even begin to argue with ya'll on that topic.  I done tried to told ya....

I think you give excellent advice, but I can't say I completely agree with everything.  First of all, $20,000/mo. apartments shouldn't even be mentioned in this discussion.  So let's go back down to the $2,000/mo. option, which you claim is the minimum.  First of all, don't forget that you can get a very nice place in Brooklyn, Jersey City, Queens, etc. for significantly less than that.  And when I say "very nice" I mean clean, multiple bed/bath, close to public transportation, in a decent neighborhood, etc.  But even in the city, as long as you're not trying to stay close to midtown, you can get a nice place for $2,000.  Check Harlem, there are nice luxury apts. up there now.  Also UES and downtown... And of course this is all assuming you're living by yourself and not with any roommates.

Just so you know my POV, I've been working and living in the city for going on three years now, making MUCH (MUCH) less than 140K, and I've been getting by fairly well.  These guys will still be young when they get out of school.  They can work hard and play hard and they can go through the learning experience that most people do when they enter the real world.

BTW, I'm taking your advice on (not) preparing for law school to the max.  There's no way I'm picking up textbooks in the immediate future. :D

Quote
But please, do not go to the school just because of the ranking alone.

I agree, but I think the difference here is more substantial than any rankings.  This isn't UVa vs. Duke or even UVa. vs. BC.  These two schools, UVa and Howard, are held in entirely different regards.  Affirmative action or not, you go to UVa and folks know you obtained a certain high level of academic achievement to get in.  You graduate from there and they know you've received a legal education from some of the best faculty in the country and competed against some of the best students in the country.  You go to Howard and you have to constantly validate your abilities:  graduate top 10%, tell people around town that you "could have gone to Georgetown," and then have to prove that your intellect is on par with UVa grads, etc.  Like I said, you'll almost certainly be working in a nearly all white workplace.  So you have to think about it from that perspective.  I really do think that the debt will be made up for within a few years in the workplace and then after that, you've still got that prestigious degree working for you, as Alci commented.

I just think it's important that the top black students go to schools that will give them the best chances to succeed and receive the respect they deserve.

Co-sign.  I wasn't even going to respond, since my opinion, as someone who has never experienced the real world, is meritless.  Thank you for adding real-world knowledge.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on February 01, 2006, 02:30:21 PM
hey Alci.. I went str8 from UG as well...you aren't alone in that regard...
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on February 01, 2006, 02:31:40 PM
Basically @ sands and jayscoot.

I didn't want to say it before because I felt it went without saying, but not all of us are fortunate enough to come from a situation where family members will not be dependant on our help. Or, some of us know that family members would not be in a position to help...if I was eyeball deep in student debt and something crazy happened, my folks wouldn't be able to help me with NADA except for maybe some gas money.

I realize that people come from difficult family situations.  Although I am fortunate to have come from a family where my dad worked (hard) for 40 years and now has a nice retirement income, I know others aren't so fortunate.  I know the deal.  I have personally witnessed, time and time again, family members financially drain those who manage to get up one rung on the latter.  I'm just saying not to let that happen.  You have to worry about your future and your future family.  Yes, help out mom, dad, aunt, cousin if they fall on hard times every now and then.  But if they become dependent on you (excepting parents), then you will have choices to make that will not be easy.  You can't expect to get very far supporting your entire extended family.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 02:44:00 PM
...if I was eyeball deep in student debt and something crazy happened, my folks wouldn't be able to help me with NADA except for maybe some gas money.

What kind of crazy thing would be affected by your debt load? If you have a good job, you should also have health insurance and should be able to get a credit card, which would cover the normal situations. Seriously... I'm wondering what kind of crazy thing you are afraid of.

And what if I lost that good job for some reason. Or I decide that I want to save the whales but I went to a school with a not so great LRAP. Believe I'll be in it up to my eyeballs next year too. However, if something happens where I can't pay my bills, I will be SOL because my parents would not be able to help.

And as far as health insurance - Insurance don't pay for ISHT, BELIEVE that. If you get cancer, you will still be coming out of pocket in a MAJOR way. There is a reason why medical bills are the #1 driver of bankruptcy - and contrary to popular belief, most of the ppl who have to file had health insurance. Like Chris Rock said - you need some COVERAGE. In this day of HMOs, most insurance providers don't cover diddly.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 01, 2006, 02:50:30 PM
Well I have worked for a few years and BEING POOR SUCKS! My father went to georgetown med and he is still paying back loans. Debt Matters. I really have thought about going to howard and getting a LLM (1yr) from GW or Georgetown. I really just want to be able to demand the clout needed to do whatever I want to do. Honestly I don't care how many black partners are out there right now I'm gonna get mine. I worked 15 hours a day 7 days a week for a year with 3 days off at a watch desk as an intel analyst in the army. I can log some hours. I was want to know the opportunity is there If I decide I want to go for it, or politics for that matter. Somthing that I'm almost certain of if I went to UVA. I really appreciate everyones opinions!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on February 01, 2006, 02:51:48 PM
I started to mention this as an example but I was wondering if anyone else was going to tackle it...

And as far as health insurance - Insurance don't pay for ISHT, BELIEVE that. If you get cancer, you will still be coming out of pocket in a MAJOR way. There is a reason why medical bills are the #1 driver of bankruptcy - and contrary to popular belief, most of the ppl who have to file had health insurance. Like Chris Rock said - you need some COVERAGE. In this day of HMOs, most insurance providers don't cover diddly.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: faith2005 on February 01, 2006, 02:58:34 PM
ocd--you're jumping the gun. just wait and see. you don't even know if uva offered you a scholarship. or if you got into another school that might provide some leverage. its feb. wait until march/april when you get your financial aid to begin the calculations...i totally agree with max's suggestion about looking at folks who are where you want to be in ten years. I made a list like that and thats how i began to make important life decisions concerning law school and a host of professional options. and also when you visit, you might HATE charlottesville. and in that case i say go to howard. :)
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 01, 2006, 03:01:08 PM
Health insurnce in america really is a joke everyone gets screwed doctors patients taxpayers....everyone but the insurance companies. I visited Charlottesville and the school. I liked charlottesville and I liked UVa's campus. As far as fin aid im watching lol I had my taxes and fafsa done jan 10th along with uva's aid form.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Slow Blues on February 01, 2006, 03:03:32 PM
blk I could talk for two days about how I'd change our health care system...
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 01, 2006, 03:09:11 PM
Medicare has to modified so there is no incentive to just go to the doctor whenever. Private insurance compaines need to pay their side of the co-pay (which they do only 60% of the ime and its often late)
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on February 01, 2006, 03:13:36 PM
Actually, preventative medicine is good.  If people go only when they're sick, then things that could have been prevented are allowed to escalate, thus increasing costs of treatment.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: blk_reign on February 01, 2006, 03:53:33 PM
then you also have to think of what would happen if God forbid one of your family members got seriously ill...I just think that there are a lot of factors involved..at the end of the day..even though the decision is yours to make..10 out of 10 there are going to be other members in your family that are going to be affected by it...whether it's current members..future wife/husband or children...your decisions aren't just your own to make unless you plan on living your life for you and you alone..
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: BrerAnansi on February 02, 2006, 12:18:24 AM
Maybe now that the application season is over...it'll defuse some of the tension on this board.  Unless of course waiting will put SOME even more on edge.  Chill out people, think of how you represent to the people reading this board...I thought the point was to help not hurt...oh btw hey Board.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 02, 2006, 12:36:37 AM
OK folks I enjoyed this thread but Im about to end it. I decided on howard with the full ride heres the reasons why:

1) I wont be broke

2) I love dc

3) I'm intrested in anti-trust and international trade. I wouldnt be able to take a job at the commerce dept or DOJ anti trust with more responsibility because of the debt.

4) I want to settle down sooner than later and I dont want to do it with a bunch of debt.

5) I manually went to the web sites of all the top 100 firms and did school searches on the attorneys when I looked at black associates and partners ther were more howard grads overall than blacks from many other of the top 25 law schools combined.

6) A AM law top lawyer who will remain unnamed told me that in those fields if you perform well you wont hit any glass ceilings.

7) with the consortium of dc schools I can take classes at any dc law school.

8)If prestige really bothers me i can do an llm at georetown or somthing.

These arent the only reasons but they are important I found prestige holding way to much weight in my decsion. Especially seeing as how I didnt see any immediate and blatant career benefits. I mean bottom line debt is real. You need to have a realistic sense of how you wnt to live when you get out of school. Life is hard enough without being restricted by debt. I'm ready to be bombarded with rebuttels.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: intent06 on February 02, 2006, 01:28:07 AM
Congrats Super....I know it wasn't an easy decision to make, but you are going to kick all kinds of ass at Howard.  You get nothing but daps from me on your decision.  Who knows, I may see you next year.  ;)

Now, update the information at the bottom of your profile and let these people know that you are gonna be reppin HOWARD UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW!!!!!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Harvest on February 02, 2006, 02:03:57 AM
Congratulations on your admissions; either way, you will be fine. I think what matters the most is how well you do once you are in, I know Howard is just one of the 12 schools selected by Kirland & Ellis for recruitment of African American summer associates. If you work your tail off and get that summer position, then, I hope things will look a bit easier afterwards.
Good luck!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: A. on February 02, 2006, 05:51:14 AM
While I respect your decision, I'm curious to know if this is even one you have to make immediately.  Most schools don't require a deposit until May.  I would suggest attending each school's admit weekend, then making a decision.  The admit weekends might reinforce your decision to attend Howard, or it might make you give UVA a second thought.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 02, 2006, 08:53:35 AM
I agree with Alci and GJ in that you should still make visits to both and talk to more people. However, going with Howard wouldn't be a bad decision..and like Intent said, nobody on this board is gonna help you pay those loans so make whatever decision you are more comfy with.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 02, 2006, 09:59:10 AM
I already visited both schools on my own when they were in session. That way I could see whatr it was actually like. And I talked to students on campus from both. I'm still going to both admitted student days though
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 02, 2006, 11:32:59 AM
lol its laziness changing it now
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on February 02, 2006, 01:42:08 PM
I was pretty surprised at your decision and as I've implied, it wouldn't be the way I'd probably go.

But much more than that, I have a lot of admiration that you've rationalized it thoroughly and you're doing it your way and with conviction.  Like everyone has said, you're going to represent wherever you decide to go.

Of course, I also believe you should wait to see what the other schools have to say before sending in your deposit.  But either way I'm glad you've been able to make a decision you'll be happy with.  To be honest, when I read your post, I was like "Word!"
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: team mvp on February 02, 2006, 03:33:56 PM
First, Super, Congrats on the full scholarship at Howard!! (Although I, as well, would choose UVA, but to each his own)

Second, why has no one mentioned that T14 have very, very nice LRAP programs that will pay off the bulk of your loans for 10 years and then your done.  I know at CLS if I go into the public service field I want to, I'll only have to pay 500 a month and by the time I hit year 10 my loans are paid off.  Some T14 schools have even better LRAP programs, UVA might be one of them. 
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 02, 2006, 03:40:01 PM
Not for what I want to do State dept or commerce dept pay too much. And Im not sure I wouldnt want to do consulting or work at a boutique trade firm. I just dont want to limit myself
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Alicat17 on February 02, 2006, 03:41:48 PM
Congrats on your decision OCD!!

After chatting at length with several insightful people about prestige, I’ve also realized that you can’t let it hijack your entire decision and trump those things that you know to be most important to you.  When that time comes for me, I think my final decision will also surprise some of the more prestige-minded.

You said you didn’t see any blatant career benefits, but here’s the biggest one I see:  When you graduate in 3 years, you can make your next career decision without debt steering you in one direction or another, and possibly away from the type of law you’d rather be practicing.

I know your decision wasn’t an easy one, but I think you made it with all of the right things in mind, and I don’t think that you’ll regret it.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 02, 2006, 03:45:38 PM
Thank you. I dont either. I'm not sending in deposits anywhere until the last possible minute but I think I have UVa's final answer.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: team mvp on February 02, 2006, 03:48:26 PM
Not for what I want to do State dept or commerce dept pay too much. And Im not sure I wouldnt want to do consulting or work at a boutique trade firm. I just dont want to limit myself

Oh ok, but just so you know some schools do not put a cap on how much you can make as long as you're in qualifying employment.  I know CLS doesn't, and I think HYS and NYU don't either.  Not sure about others.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 02, 2006, 03:54:01 PM
UVA doesnt do this. And what your talking about is only for certain programs. I would be just as limited as if I took the debt.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: team mvp on February 02, 2006, 03:59:05 PM
UVA doesnt do this. And what your talking about is only for certain programs. I would be just as limited as if I took the debt.

True
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on February 02, 2006, 04:01:54 PM
When that time comes for me, I think my final decision will also surprise some of the more prestige-minded.

Looking at your list of schools, I'm not too sure many jaws will drop. :P

Especially if you're talking about getting a full ride from one of them.

Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Alicat17 on February 02, 2006, 04:06:13 PM
When that time comes for me, I think my final decision will also surprise some of the more prestige-minded.

Looking at your list of schools, I'm not too sure many jaws will drop. :P

Especially if you're talking about getting a full ride from one of them.




I want to believe the same thing, but I'm surprised at the numbers of people who advise me with a straight face to pick one of the T10 schools even if it means passing up a full ride and incurring massive debt..


Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 02, 2006, 04:11:08 PM
How many of them have been on their own and been in debt/broke before
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: team mvp on February 02, 2006, 04:13:19 PM
When that time comes for me, I think my final decision will also surprise some of the more prestige-minded.

Looking at your list of schools, I'm not too sure many jaws will drop. :P

Especially if you're talking about getting a full ride from one of them.






I want to believe the same thing, but I'm surprised at the numbers of people who advise me with a straight face to pick one of the T10 schools even if it means passing up a full ride and incurring massive debt..





It really depends on what you want to do.  In some routes, like academia, a top (3, 6, 10 , 14 whatever) degree is necessary in others its not. But, I think everyone knows that already.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 02, 2006, 04:22:31 PM
Super, I applaud your decision. That was not an easy decision by any stretch of the imagination and your sound reasoning speaks miles toward your mature character.

Like Alicat said, you are lightyears ahead of us already in that when I graduate, I have to do a tour in big law to pay back the loans, when you graduate you can do whatever the hell you want.

I'll see you in court!
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Alicat17 on February 02, 2006, 04:32:07 PM
How many of them have been on their own and been in debt/broke before

It's really been a mix.  I've talked to a number of student who are preparing to graduate from T14 schools this year.  For the most part, they've insisted that its worth the debt because "it pays for itself."  Then again, I'm watching them now worry about how they're going to pay back their 150K+ in debt, even as they prepare to graduate from these banner schools, many of them with great firm jobs lined up.

Many of the lawyers I work with who have gone to these schools continue to push this idea, and the argument that I've found most compelling is that, even though you'll likely get the same legal education anywhere you go, a major part of the value of law school are the contacts you can build with classmates, alum, and faculty.  You can't really ignore the fact that prestigeous schools are able to attract a higher caliber of students than many other schools, even though the quality of education is essentially the same.

In my line of work, I do see those connections pay off everyday (for example, my firm was started by a group of former GULC law school buddies, and many of our clients they landed literally by calling up their old college/lawschool friends who now occupy influential positions across the country).

But I also know that I'm too resourceful to think i have to pay $150K for a potential law school network -- there are many ways to build a comprable network. I also don't necessarily want to practice corporate law, and so the idea of being able to go in any direction with my JD without the debt-induced stress I see in some of my friends at T14 schools, is much more valuable to me than a potential network that might or might not pay off years down the line.

Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Alicat17 on February 02, 2006, 04:43:25 PM

It really depends on what you want to do.  In some routes, like academia, a top (3, 6, 10 , 14 whatever) degree is necessary in others its not. But, I think everyone knows that already.

This is true.  If I wanted to teach law or clerk for SCOTUS, prestige would matter, and I'd incur the debt necessary to reach that level.  But for the direction I'd like to go in, its more valuable to me to avoid excessive debt, so it is very much a personal preference.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 02, 2006, 06:20:51 PM
For the record, I've been both in debt and broke and would advise you to take a T5 over Howard.  On the other hand, I'm not sure if you should take UVA over Howard with $$$$.  Question: What happens if you get into Harvard now?  Would you give up the free ride then?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: Alicat17 on February 02, 2006, 06:32:55 PM
For the record, I've been both in debt and broke and would advise you to take a T5 over Howard.  On the other hand, I'm not sure if you should take UVA over Howard with $$$$.  Question: What happens if you get into Harvard now?  Would you give up the free ride then?

Excellent question.  For me, Harvard is my one and only exception; in my experience, Harvard grads dominate the public policy arena (w. the law school, Kennedy school, etc), and with a Harvard degree I could literally write my own ticket. That said, if I am blessed with the option of a full ride, I can't see myself going into that much debt for any other school
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: 2Lacoste on February 02, 2006, 08:55:02 PM
OK folks I enjoyed this thread but Im about to end it. I decided on howard with the full ride heres the reasons why:

1) I wont be broke

2) I love dc

3) I'm intrested in anti-trust and international trade. I wouldnt be able to take a job at the commerce dept or DOJ anti trust with more responsibility because of the debt.

4) I want to settle down sooner than later and I dont want to do it with a bunch of debt.

5) I manually went to the web sites of all the top 100 firms and did school searches on the attorneys when I looked at black associates and partners ther were more howard grads overall than blacks from many other of the top 25 law schools combined.

6) A AM law top lawyer who will remain unnamed told me that in those fields if you perform well you wont hit any glass ceilings.

7) with the consortium of dc schools I can take classes at any dc law school.

8)If prestige really bothers me i can do an llm at georetown or somthing.

These arent the only reasons but they are important I found prestige holding way to much weight in my decsion. Especially seeing as how I didnt see any immediate and blatant career benefits. I mean bottom line debt is real. You need to have a realistic sense of how you wnt to live when you get out of school. Life is hard enough without being restricted by debt. I'm ready to be bombarded with rebuttels.


Congrats on the decision -- UVa won't be the same without you, I'm sure.  And as others have previously noted, we all know you're gonna do your thing at Howard Law.  Definitely hope to catch you at the DoJ, bro!!!

lacoste
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 03, 2006, 06:58:32 AM
Harvard Yale or Columbia would be a harder decision. But UVA isnt either of those schools.
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: jnc18 on February 03, 2006, 09:05:42 AM
Harvard Yale or Columbia would be a harder decision. But UVA isnt either of those schools.

OOC, would you have considered NYU one of those schools as well?
Title: Re: I have a dilemma (a good dilema but still a dilema)
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 03, 2006, 01:37:36 PM
Yes I do. However I was waitlisted there.
Title: Howard University
Post by: ReformedSlacker(HFG) on February 04, 2006, 12:26:58 PM
If you had a 2.5 ug gpa , what would be the Lsat score one would need to be considered a lock for acceptance?
Thanks :)
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: team mvp on February 04, 2006, 12:32:57 PM
If you had a 2.5 ug gpa , what would be the Lsat score one would need to be considered a lock for acceptance?
Thanks :)

To be considered a lock I'd say at least 160 w/ that gpa.  Just an educated guess though.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: windowshopper on February 05, 2006, 02:54:58 PM
Not even. Mind you that a 156 is their 75th percentile LSAT score.  So I would guess around there.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 05, 2006, 02:58:25 PM
I had a 2.5 and a 162 and got waitlisted at Howard.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: team mvp on February 05, 2006, 03:00:21 PM
Not even. Mind you that a 156 is their 75th percentile LSAT score.  So I would guess around there.

Hmm, I don't know a 2.5 is a pretty big hurdle to jump (assuming there are no extenuation circumstances) and the OP asked what was needed to be a lock.  Yes, I agree that with a 156 and 2.5 one would have a decent chance at admission, but I believe a 160 would be needed to be a lock for admission.

EDIT: I'm wrong lol
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: windowshopper on February 05, 2006, 03:06:55 PM
Hmmm...Almost the same numbers and I got $$ from Howard.  Goes to show you it goes beyond the numbers.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 05, 2006, 03:08:17 PM
They show deference to those who attended HBCU's.  I was not one of those students unfortunately.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: windowshopper on February 05, 2006, 03:09:11 PM
Me neither... where did you end up for LS?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: blk_reign on February 05, 2006, 03:09:38 PM
there's no way to guarantee a lock though...
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: M DOT on February 05, 2006, 03:12:22 PM
thats funny, the dean told me that in order to get money, an applicant needed to have at least a 3.0 and a 153.....playing games, tsk, tsk tsk
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: team mvp on February 05, 2006, 03:13:55 PM
there's no way to guarantee a lock though...

This is true, there is so much more that goes into deciding whether an applicant is worthy of admission that people fail to realize, especially at Howard.  That's why the rate my chances threads can only help to a certain degree.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 12:01:43 PM
Me neither... where did you end up for LS?

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier.  I ended up at Rutgers - Newark.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: shaz on February 06, 2006, 12:09:08 PM
sands,

did you visit the husl during the app/waitlist process?  i think that might have carried some weight with the adcoms. 
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 12:24:49 PM
sands,

did you visit the husl during the app/waitlist process?  i think that might have carried some weight with the adcoms. 

actually yes I did.  Flew out to the east coast (coming from the midwest) and hit up a bunch of schools in one week, and HUSL was one of them.  I was waitlisted from approx. November of 2003 until August of 2004.  I visted the school in person around March of 2004.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Slow Blues on February 06, 2006, 12:29:51 PM
I had a 2.5 and a 162 and got waitlisted at Howard.

Didn't you make law review at Rutgers though?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: shaz on February 06, 2006, 12:35:20 PM
that's just wrong.  :(

you made the law review at rutgers.  you have an almost obvious talent for the law. maybe you are where you were supposed to be all along.  this is what scares me about howard.  there are too many stories like this. 
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 12:55:10 PM
yeah well, it is what it is.

If anything, it just goes to show that not many of us can be summarized by two numbers.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 01:47:10 PM
LOL

That would be just my luck too.

What I find most interesting about this grid is that for those falling in the 2.5 range, nobody applied to Howard who had an LSAT higher than a 164.  Those in the highest LSAT range available (160-164) are not even a lock.

It looks like a 160 at Howard does not become a lock until you are in the 3.0-3.24 GPA range.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 02:13:33 PM
SuperOCD debate part II

lol

You know, not to get off on another big debate on that, but I was conflicted with that for a long time and weighed every single aspect of both schools on the scales in my head for months and months.  In the end I would have more than likely ended up going to Howard for all the reasons that we've all heard already in the Super debate.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: ReformedSlacker(HFG) on February 06, 2006, 03:23:38 PM
LOL

That would be just my luck too.

What I find most interesting about this grid is that for those falling in the 2.5 range, nobody applied to Howard who had an LSAT higher than a 164.  Those in the highest LSAT range available (160-164) are not even a lock.

It looks like a 160 at Howard does not become a lock until you are in the 3.0-3.24 GPA range.


After looking at that i am wondering if those appliicants are black? I mean its hard engouh to find blacks let, alone black males that have a 3.0 160, but have a black person score a 2.5 and 160 has to be few and far between. Unlike the most white applicants , who can happen to have a crappy gpa and a nice lsat score because they are just plan lazy or dont, blacks in this same position tend to be those that are dealing with long work hours and or supporting themselevs entirley and other familiy members.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: ReformedSlacker(HFG) on February 06, 2006, 03:49:22 PM

I agree with you, have you looked at the firms that recruit from there? They have 2 or 3 times as many firms interviewing as compared to most T2 school.

SuperOCD debate part II

lol

You know, not to get off on another big debate on that, but I was conflicted with that for a long time and weighed every single aspect of both schools on the scales in my head for months and months.  In the end I would have more than likely ended up going to Howard for all the reasons that we've all heard already in the Super debate.

Ha ha. I am not trying to start a debate. I think very highly of both Howard and Rutgers, though I, too, would select Howard if I faced the decision. I'd take Howard over any non-t14 program except GW and Fordham.

Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 06, 2006, 04:07:21 PM
I had a 2.5 and a 162 and got waitlisted at Howard.


whattt...shutup sands. yet you managed to make law review at a school thats higher ranked. you just made me feel alot better about having been waitlisted.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 06, 2006, 04:36:51 PM
I didn't play the hand I was dealt.  I can't even be too upset about it b/c Adcom's have to sift through literally 1000's of apps.  What's special about one more app from some cat in the midwest named Burning Sands? 
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 09:29:45 AM
Does anyone know if Howard takes an average LSAT score or your highest score? I don't feel like calling and asking cause they pro'ly recognizing my voice by now. :D
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 09:39:44 AM
Does anyone know if Howard takes an average LSAT score or your highest score? I don't feel like calling and asking cause they pro'ly recognizing my voice by now. :D

Have someone call for you. I doubt they even care. What is your average?

151...but my highest score is 156.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: John Galt on February 13, 2006, 09:44:15 AM
This year, at least, Howard has seemingly rectified their nonchalant approach. At first, I thought they were going to be trifiling, but they did so much after I was admitted. They had a managing partner from Sullivan and Cromwell that graduated from HU call and talk about the benefits of going. He actually said he hires more Howard grads than anyone else. Three current students called me. The dean of admissions called me to talk about making a decision. Invited me to the Law School Campus to have a one-on-one. They offered me a full ride plus a stipend. The Dean payed a courtesy call(by phone) and they've invited me to a bunch of law school seminars and events with free food. Go HU!

This also happened to annabel lee and another student I know. So I think they are trying to be more hands on. I think they know they have to use their awesome historical reputation to the fullest extent, but that alone won't attract the best students. They also have to reach out.

They dropped the ball on Sands...but I'm sorry, I think it worked out just as it should. Sands ended up where he needed to be to make the most out of his awesome potential. God works in mysterious ways sometimes.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 09:49:07 AM
Does anyone know if Howard takes an average LSAT score or your highest score? I don't feel like calling and asking cause they pro'ly recognizing my voice by now. :D

Have someone call for you. I doubt they even care. What is your average?

151...but my highest score is 156.

I would really appreciate it if you could call!!!  :D  Thanks, good looking out.  I appreciate the love on this board!!!  {cheezing and jumping up and down}

If you want, I'll call for you. I imagine they average, but your jump is impressive enough to get serious consideration.

Edit: Additionally, your 156 places you at or near Howard's 75% LSAT.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 09:51:25 AM
This year, at least, Howard has seemingly rectified their nonchalant approach. At first, I thought they were going to be trifiling, but they did so much after I was admitted. They had a managing partner from Sullivan and Cromwell that graduated from HU call and talk about the benefits of going. He actually said he hires more Howard grads than anyone else. Three current students called me. The dean of admissions called me to talk about making a decision. Invited me to the Law School Campus to have a one-on-one. They offered me a full ride plus a stipend. The Dean payed a courtesy call(by phone) and they've invited me to a bunch of law school seminars and events with free food. Go HU!

This also happened to annabel lee and another student I know. So I think they are trying to be more hands on. I think they know they have to use their awesome historical reputation to the fullest extent, but that alone won't attract the best students. They also have to reach out.

They dropped the ball on Sands...but I'm sorry, I think it worked out just as it should. Sands ended up where he needed to be to make the most out of his awesome potential. God works in mysterious ways sometimes.

So did they convince you to go?  Did OCD get that red carpet treatment?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 13, 2006, 09:52:49 AM
Yes I did
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 09:53:58 AM
I just called and spoke to a lovely sounding young lady. They take the highest score. Depending on your GPA, you may be in a pretty good position. Good luck.

Thanks sooooooo much!!!!  That's the best news I've heard all week (yea I know the week just started)!  My gpa is a dissapointing 3.0 but a few soft factors that may help.  Please Lord help me out!! :D
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 09:56:00 AM
Yes I did

Did that influence your decision to go?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Slow Blues on February 13, 2006, 09:56:34 AM
Somehow I think John Galt will be going to either Harvard, Stanford, or Yale.

You know, I didn't get a single thing from Howard when I was applying to school. Do they just not mail out any information to entice people to apply?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 10:01:50 AM
I just called and spoke to a lovely sounding young lady. They take the highest score. Depending on your GPA, you may be in a pretty good position. Good luck.

Thanks sooooooo much!!!!  That's the best news I've heard all week (yea I know the week just started)!  My gpa is a dissapointing 3.0 but a few soft factors that may help.  Please Lord help me out!! :D

Have you visited the school, or shown interest in some other way?

They did accept 24 out of 27 applicants in your # range, using your gpa and highest LSAT.
http://officialguide.lsac.org/OFFGUIDE/pdf/lsac5297.pdf

No I haven't.  It's tough as hell with the kind of job I have.  Have you visited?  Do you know if they still have appointments to visit? I'll check their website?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: John Galt on February 13, 2006, 10:06:07 AM
This year, at least, Howard has seemingly rectified their nonchalant approach. At first, I thought they were going to be trifiling, but they did so much after I was admitted. They had a managing partner from Sullivan and Cromwell that graduated from HU call and talk about the benefits of going. He actually said he hires more Howard grads than anyone else. Three current students called me. The dean of admissions called me to talk about making a decision. Invited me to the Law School Campus to have a one-on-one. They offered me a full ride plus a stipend. The Dean payed a courtesy call(by phone) and they've invited me to a bunch of law school seminars and events with free food. Go HU!

This also happened to annabel lee and another student I know. So I think they are trying to be more hands on. I think they know they have to use their awesome historical reputation to the fullest extent, but that alone won't attract the best students. They also have to reach out.

They dropped the ball on Sands...but I'm sorry, I think it worked out just as it should. Sands ended up where he needed to be to make the most out of his awesome potential. God works in mysterious ways sometimes.

So did they convince you to go?  Did OCD get that red carpet treatment?

Well I gave up some other schools to go to Howard for undergrad. I think I want a different experience for law school. I can definitely see giving up a harvard, yale, etc for HU if you're confident in your abilities. I mean, I think, at least for UG, Howard offers waaaaaay more opportunities than a PWI would have for a guy like me. But I want to get out of DC and out of Howard. I loved every second of it, but I need a change of scenery.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 10:08:03 AM
I just called and spoke to a lovely sounding young lady. They take the highest score. Depending on your GPA, you may be in a pretty good position. Good luck.

Thanks sooooooo much!!!!  That's the best news I've heard all week (yea I know the week just started)!  My gpa is a dissapointing 3.0 but a few soft factors that may help.  Please Lord help me out!! :D
;)

Have you visited the school, or shown interest in some other way?

They did accept 24 out of 27 applicants in your # range, using your gpa and highest LSAT.
http://officialguide.lsac.org/OFFGUIDE/pdf/lsac5297.pdf

No I haven't.  It's tough as hell with the kind of job I have.  Have you visited?  Do you know if they still have appointments to visit? I'll check their website?

I have not visited. I am not applying this cycle, so I am not in a rush. I'll visit early next cycle, making the rounds to all the DC schools. If you are in, which is likely, I'll make sure to hit you up for a beer :P
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 13, 2006, 10:08:58 AM
Since everyone is sharing I would like to share my Howard story.  I have not been admitted yet, but here I go.

I applied back in October and as of two weeks had heard NOTHING.  I received an email in December stating they received my application from Dean McGahee.  Well, my LSDAS was never requested and I didn't understand why.  Well I called the school a couple of weeks to get it straight.  It seems as though that the way my name is inputted (I'm a Junior) with LSDAS is different with the way HU inputted it.  When they requested my report back in NOVEMBER, LSAC rejected it.

Well I, too, talked to nice sounding young lady who had a Director or Dean call me and figure out what the hell was going on.  We talked and viola...in two days my report had been requested and 6 days later I received a complete notice.

I really hope that along with my other factors, my professionaliam about the matter stays on her mind as they review my file.  Howard is doing the damn thing!

I did not want to be that typical person to call them up and be like "Ya'll is ghetto as hell and need to get on it"...lol

There, that's my story!  I am going to visit the law school the weekend of the NBLSA convention.  Would be nice if someone came along with me ya know?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: John Galt on February 13, 2006, 10:10:35 AM
Since everyone is sharing I would like to share my Howard story.  I have not been admitted yet, but here I go.

I applied back in October and as of two weeks had heard NOTHING.  I received an email in December stating they received my application from Dean McGahee.  Well, my LSDAS was never requested and I didn't understand why.  Well I called the school a couple of weeks to get it straight.  It seems as though that the way my name is inputted (I'm a Junior) with LSDAS is different with the way HU inputted it.  When they requested my report back in NOVEMBER, LSAC rejected it.

Well I, too, talked to nice sounding young lady who had a Director or Dean call me and figure out what the hell was going on.  We talked and viola...in two days my report had been requested and 6 days later I received a complete notice.

I really hope that along with my other factors, my professionaliam about the matter stays on her mind as they review my file.  Howard is doing the damn thing!

I did not want to be that typical person to call them up and be like "Ya'll is ghetto as hell and need to get on it"...lol

There, that's my story!  I am going to visit the law school the weekend of the NBLSA convention.  Would be nice if someone came along with me ya know?

PM me. What is the weekend? If I'm in town, I'll go with you.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 13, 2006, 10:16:44 AM
Good stuff JG!
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 10:26:58 AM
Since everyone is sharing I would like to share my Howard story.  I have not been admitted yet, but here I go.

I applied back in October and as of two weeks had heard NOTHING.  I received an email in December stating they received my application from Dean McGahee.  Well, my LSDAS was never requested and I didn't understand why.  Well I called the school a couple of weeks to get it straight.  It seems as though that the way my name is inputted (I'm a Junior) with LSDAS is different with the way HU inputted it.  When they requested my report back in NOVEMBER, LSAC rejected it.

Well I, too, talked to nice sounding young lady who had a Director or Dean call me and figure out what the hell was going on.  We talked and viola...in two days my report had been requested and 6 days later I received a complete notice.

I really hope that along with my other factors, my professionaliam about the matter stays on her mind as they review my file.  Howard is doing the damn thing!

I did not want to be that typical person to call them up and be like "Ya'll is ghetto as hell and need to get on it"...lol

There, that's my story!  I am going to visit the law school the weekend of the NBLSA convention.  Would be nice if someone came along with me ya know?

PM me as well.  That would be a perfect time for me to go.  Anyone intersted in visiting any other schools in the DC area that weekend lemme know as well.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 10:31:39 AM
I applied in January and though they requestd my report, I'm yet to go complete.  The only e-mail I've received is a general one from the Dean telling me to check out their new website.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 13, 2006, 11:33:08 AM
I mean, I think, at least for UG, Howard offers waaaaaay more opportunities than a PWI would have for a guy like me.


Just curious, Galt - what kinda guy are you?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 13, 2006, 11:49:46 AM
I'm taking Howard over UVA with no money. Thats not the same as HYS. It wouldnt be definite but I would spend a lot more time thinking. I applied for several private scholarships that could change my decsion btw. It is however, very unlikley.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Slow Blues on February 13, 2006, 11:51:52 AM
superOCD is a distinguished Blue Sweater Scholar.  :)
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 13, 2006, 12:00:05 PM
superOCD is a distinguished Blue Sweater Scholar.  :)

Why yes, after he took that picture he was poppin his collar.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 13, 2006, 12:24:00 PM
poppin poppin his collah
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: John Galt on February 13, 2006, 12:33:55 PM
I mean, I think, at least for UG, Howard offers waaaaaay more opportunities than a PWI would have for a guy like me.


Just curious, Galt - what kinda guy are you?


With regards to why I wouldn't have as many opportunites at a PWI? Too outspoken...
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Slow Blues on February 13, 2006, 12:39:34 PM
superOCD is a distinguished Blue Sweater Scholar.  :)

Why yes, after he took that picture he was poppin his collar.  ;D ;D

Gotta stay fly-y-y-y-y-y-y-y-y
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 13, 2006, 12:51:34 PM
I mean, I think, at least for UG, Howard offers waaaaaay more opportunities than a PWI would have for a guy like me.

Just curious, Galt - what kinda guy are you?

With regards to why I wouldn't have as many opportunites at a PWI? Too outspoken...


Why do you think that would have cut off your opps at a PWI? I'm just curious. My best friend went to Morehouse over other options. He says that he needed that experience b/c he felt somewhat awkward around Black people...he needed to learn how to chop it up with dudes in the barber shop, so to speak. I almost went to Spelman, and I wonder how different of a person if I had made that decision.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 13, 2006, 01:01:30 PM
Question....

Who sings that song Poppin, Poppin My Collar.  Man, I was bouncin all around the bathroom this morning.

Sorry to hijack the HU thread, but I know there is a lot of collar poppin at HU too! :D
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 13, 2006, 01:17:40 PM
I'm glad to hear that they actually do that for students. 


This year, at least, Howard has seemingly rectified their nonchalant approach. At first, I thought they were going to be trifiling, but they did so much after I was admitted. They had a managing partner from Sullivan and Cromwell that graduated from HU call and talk about the benefits of going. He actually said he hires more Howard grads than anyone else. Three current students called me. The dean of admissions called me to talk about making a decision. Invited me to the Law School Campus to have a one-on-one. They offered me a full ride plus a stipend. The Dean payed a courtesy call(by phone) and they've invited me to a bunch of law school seminars and events with free food. Go HU!

This also happened to annabel lee and another student I know. So I think they are trying to be more hands on. I think they know they have to use their awesome historical reputation to the fullest extent, but that alone won't attract the best students. They also have to reach out.

They dropped the ball on Sands...but I'm sorry, I think it worked out just as it should. Sands ended up where he needed to be to make the most out of his awesome potential. God works in mysterious ways sometimes.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 13, 2006, 01:28:12 PM
Question....

Who sings that song Poppin, Poppin My Collar.  Man, I was bouncin all around the bathroom this morning.

Sorry to hijack the HU thread, but I know there is a lot of collar poppin at HU too! :D

LOL

that would be 3 6 Mafia, featuring Alcibiades in the 1L thread ;)
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 13, 2006, 01:29:55 PM
Question....

Who sings that song Poppin, Poppin My Collar.  Man, I was bouncin all around the bathroom this morning.

Sorry to hijack the HU thread, but I know there is a lot of collar poppin at HU too! :D

Juicy J, Crunchy Black, and DJ Paul....aka Three 6 Mafia.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 13, 2006, 01:42:31 PM
That fool said 3-6 Mafia and Alci...lmao!!!

Good, might have to go get that CD b/c Stay Fly is makes me shake my body in my car! lol

Again, sorry for the hijack.

Back to Howard......
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: justGem on February 14, 2006, 07:18:40 AM
I applied in January and though they requestd my report, I'm yet to go complete.  The only e-mail I've received is a general one from the Dean telling me to check out their new website.

I got that e-mail too.  Not that it was needed but why would one send an e-mail to check out a website but not include the link? 
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 14, 2006, 07:58:46 AM
All I know is that Im reall excitied about howard. I'm even more excited that I will be making money in lawschool instead of giving it away.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Slow Blues on February 14, 2006, 08:14:29 AM
Super, what would happen if Yale, Harvard, or Columbia admitted you? Just wondering
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 14, 2006, 08:20:48 AM
Id have to really consider one of them. Id prob end up going. but UVA, Northwestern or GW isnt at that level.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: blk_reign on February 14, 2006, 08:28:33 AM
 >:(

Id have to really consider one of them. Id prob end up going. but UVA, Northwestern or GW isnt at that level.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 14, 2006, 08:37:03 AM
I applied in January and though they requestd my report, I'm yet to go complete.  The only e-mail I've received is a general one from the Dean telling me to check out their new website.

I got that e-mail too.  Not that it was needed but why would one send an e-mail to check out a website but not include the link? 

Maybe they think we all have their link bookmarked so no need to include it.   :D
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 14, 2006, 08:43:25 AM
>:(

Id have to really consider one of them. Id prob end up going. but UVA, Northwestern or GW isnt at that level.


LOL

Your school got shat upon ;D
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: justGem on February 14, 2006, 08:48:56 AM
OK, this is an off-topic aside but Sands, Superdoc and Lacoste:

What is with the blue sweaters over collared shirts in the avatars?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 14, 2006, 08:56:04 AM
>:(

Id have to really consider one of them. Id prob end up going. but UVA, Northwestern or GW isnt at that level.


LOL

Your school got shat upon ;D

OMG, that is funny but its not b/c I think G-dub is a great school.  But Blk and her faces are legendary :)
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 14, 2006, 08:57:11 AM
OK, this is an off-topic aside but Sands, Superdoc and Lacoste:

What is with the blue sweaters over collared shirts in the avatars?

I am going to initiate myself into the Blue Sweaters club and go and buy a blue sweater.  I hope the fellas let me join their click.  I would do anything to be apart of the Blue clique!
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: blk_reign on February 14, 2006, 08:57:33 AM
 >:( >:( >:(

>:(

Id have to really consider one of them. Id prob end up going. but UVA, Northwestern or GW isnt at that level.


LOL

Your school got shat upon ;D

OMG, that is funny but its not b/c I think G-dub is a great school.  But Blk and her faces are legendary :)
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 14, 2006, 09:00:46 AM
Turn that frown upside down!

Hey Super...have you visited Howard?
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 14, 2006, 09:01:36 AM
OK, this is an off-topic aside but Sands, Superdoc and Lacoste:

What is with the blue sweaters over collared shirts in the avatars?

mannnnnn, i dunno

it just started one night we all 3 put up av's with blue sweaters by coincidence.  Next thing we knew it grew into the Blue Sweater Scholars Society  :D

ever since we can remember we've been poppin our collahs...
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 14, 2006, 09:17:42 AM
OK, this is an off-topic aside but Sands, Superdoc and Lacoste:

What is with the blue sweaters over collared shirts in the avatars?

mannnnnn, i dunno

it just started one night we all 3 put up av's with blue sweaters by coincidence.  Next thing we knew it grew into the Blue Sweater Scholars Society  :D

ever since we can remember we've been poppin our collahs...

Gotta pop the collar.

UUUUmmmm blk..Im sotty can I be your friend again  :-[
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on February 14, 2006, 09:26:52 AM
Ok let me just add a caveat to what I said earlier.

George Washington is a world class institution that is renowned for a international law and intellectual property program that I would be proud to attend. With LLMs George Washington is my first choice as I plan on staying in the DC area and want to focus in international law. I could not go wrong with a George Washington education as they produce many of the brightest and most influential lawyers not only in dc but throughout the country. The main reason I would take Yale over such a school is because I am a prestige whore who is oblivious as too all the ammenities a GW degree can provide to the washington lawyer. Please dont let my past post in any way lead you to think GW is any less of a school than harvard or Yale. Thank You for your time.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: blk_reign on February 14, 2006, 09:28:14 AM
hmmm..that sounds much better... :D ;D


Ok let me just add a caveat to what I said earlier.

George Washington is a world class institution that is renowned for a international law and intellectual property program that I would be proud to attend. With LLMs George Washington is my first choice as I plan on staying in the DC area and want to focus in international law. I could not go wrong with a George Washington education as they produce many of the brightest and most influential lawyers not only in dc but throughout the country. The main reason I would take Yale over such a school is because I am a prestige whore who is oblivious as too all the ammenities a GW degree can provide to the washington lawyer. Please dont let my past post in any way lead you to think GW is any less of a school than harvard or Yale. Thank You for your time.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 14, 2006, 09:30:16 AM
kiss kiss kiss!!!
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: crazy8 on February 14, 2006, 09:34:59 AM
Oh my goodness Blk, you've joined the avatar klan!  :o ;D
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: intent06 on February 14, 2006, 09:45:24 AM
I am going to get my blue sweater in about 30 minutes.  The pic will be posted tomorrow.
Title: Re: Howard University
Post by: blk_reign on February 14, 2006, 09:49:56 AM