Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: Burning Sands, Esq. on August 14, 2004, 12:32:16 PM

Title: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on August 14, 2004, 12:32:16 PM
Welcome to the Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread.  In this thread you can ask other posters what your chances are and/or what schools you should apply to with your given GPA/LSAT numbers.

Note: The first 50+ pages of this thread represent a consolidation of over 45 threads on this topic appearing on the BLSD from February 2005 until the creation of this thread in July 2006.  Before posting your own numbers, you may find it convenient to review the commentary already provided to posters with numbers similar to your own.  To better assist your search, please use the index below:

GPA/LSAT     Link                                                       

2.71/157     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg381076.html#msg381076
3.45/ -      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg474074.html#msg474074
3.30/ -      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg531046.html#msg531046
3.30/161     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg605366.html#msg605366
3.23/171     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg607669.html#msg607669
3.91/163     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg628567.html#msg628567
3.10/167     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg685269.html#msg685269
3.10/ -      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg696776.html#msg696776
2.60/165     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg697857.html#msg697857
3.32/158     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg777810.html#msg777810
3.30/161     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg795866.html#msg795866
2.50/170     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg796411.html#msg796411
3.40/164     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg806671.html#msg806671
3.88/157     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg822602.html#msg822602
3.14/165     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg847529.html#msg847529
3.65/158     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg868149.html#msg868149
2.50/ -      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg889842.html#msg889842
1.98/149     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg894525.html#msg894525
2.10/ -      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg907189.html#msg907189
3.30/153     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg940978.html#msg940978
3.00/160     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg941060.html#msg941060
3.50/152     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg941777.html#msg941777
3.10/ -      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg942106.html#msg942106
2.50/157     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg945401.html#msg945401
3.90/159     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg945406.html#msg945406
2.20/170     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg948877.html#msg948877
2.90/154     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg949788.html#msg949788
3.50/165     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg953195.html#msg953195
3.15/146     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg959969.html#msg959969
3.90/159     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg974862.html#msg974862
2.20/156     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg978325.html#msg978325
3.15/166     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg998124.html#msg998124
3.90/166     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1015428.html#msg1015428
2.80/ -      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1038049.html#msg1038049
3.48/152     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1109527.html#msg1109527
3.60/155     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1112199.html#msg1112199
2.80/170     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1426818.html#msg1426818
3.50/147     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1505288.html#msg1505288
3.44/170     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1505474.html#msg1505474
3.30/162     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1512040.html#msg1512040
2.80/166     http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1521283.html#msg1521283
3.30/ -      http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg1543918.html#msg1543918

Title: 2.71 157 where do I have a shot?
Post by: jd.me? on February 24, 2005, 02:45:36 PM
I took the feb exam and bomb it. I guessed on about 6-5 questions towards the end of each section. So I guessed a total of 21-22 questions with the letter of the day "D". I think my score is from a 155-158. Does anyone have some advice as to what schools I should apply to. Also what are my chances at CWRU,Pitt, Depaul OSU, AU and GW?
Thanks.
Title: Re: 2.71 157 where do I have a shot?
Post by: Statistic on February 24, 2005, 02:55:01 PM
I took the feb exam and bomb it. I guessed on about 6-5 questions towards the end of each section. So I guessed a total of 21-22 questions with the letter of the day "D". I think my score is from a 155-158. Does anyone have some advice as to what schools I should apply to. Also what are my chances at CWRU,Pitt, Depaul OSU, AU and GW?
Thanks.

why didn't you cancel?
Title: Re: 2.71 157 where do I have a shot?
Post by: jd.me? on February 24, 2005, 03:06:02 PM
I took two years off and have to start in 05. I took the exam in Dec, canceled remembered my answers and did a self score. It turns out that dec's exam was a 165. I finish games and got everything correct, answered 23/26 on Arg1 21/25 on Arg2 and did 2 rc passages. I canceled the dec exam b/c I thought it was much worse but it wasn't that bad.
Feb was bad and I know that I won't get into many of the schools that I applied to. Pressure from family and 2 years off from starting law school pushed me to make this stupid choice.
Title: Re: 2.71 157 where do I have a shot?
Post by: Ladyday on February 24, 2005, 04:29:11 PM
I took two years off and have to start in 05. I took the exam in Dec, canceled remembered my answers and did a self score. It turns out that dec's exam was a 165. I finish games and got everything correct, answered 23/26 on Arg1 21/25 on Arg2 and did 2 rc passages. I canceled the dec exam b/c I thought it was much worse but it wasn't that bad.
Feb was bad and I know that I won't get into many of the schools that I applied to. Pressure from family and 2 years off from starting law school pushed me to make this stupid choice.

If you think you can do significantly better, take it again, put your families' wishes to the side and do what you know in your heart is best for you, this is your life, not theirs.

If you want to apply with the stats you have now I would say apply to T3 and lower T2 schools in the area you plan on practicing. @#!* it, apply where you wanna go, let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: 2.71 157 where do I have a shot?
Post by: SanchoPanzo on February 24, 2005, 09:49:34 PM
Have you tried the link below to see your odds?

http://www.chiashu.com/cgi-bin/lsac.cgi?gpa=2.71&lsat=157
Title: Advise on where to apply for next year..
Post by: kasanova on April 18, 2005, 04:29:30 PM
So ive gotten respnoses from a number of people, but I just wanted to get responses from you guys in particular.


Black Male-UT-Austin

Biomedical Engineering(3.3), with minor in Business Foundations(4.0). Overall GPA-3.45

Great EC's-representative for entire college of engineering in student government, president of elite organization, numerous volunteer hours.

Played Varsity Football for first two years. After stopping there was a large upward trend in my GPA.


What LSAT score do you guys think i would have to attain in order to get into any of the t14 schools? Are my chances high enough that I can aim at the t14, or should i lower my expectations? Safeties? Any guaranteed?
Title: Re: Advise on where to apply for next year..
Post by: blk_reign on April 18, 2005, 04:38:00 PM
what field do you want to go into?
Title: Re: Advise on where to apply for next year..
Post by: Muse on April 18, 2005, 05:10:40 PM
Is that you in the avatar?  ;D

Ugh...where you want to practice and what are you looking to do in the future? IP law?
Title: Re: Advise on where to apply for next year..
Post by: kasanova on April 18, 2005, 11:27:14 PM
Yea, thats me in the avatar-why do you ask? Damn, I get an "ugh," -never got that before, but I guess there's a first for everything.

Umm, I plan on going into patent law. But actually, Im going to NY for an investment banking internship with SEO this summer. SO, if they offer me a job after graduation it may trump all my law school aspirations.
Title: Re: Advise on where to apply for next year..
Post by: Muse on April 19, 2005, 12:07:32 AM
LOL I wasn't saying ugh about your appearance...I lost my train of thought while I was writing..LOL.
Title: Re: Advise on where to apply for next year..
Post by: blk_reign on April 19, 2005, 12:08:20 AM
Boalt has the best IP program in the country..Stanford is second... George Washington University is third..
Title: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Playa222 on May 12, 2005, 12:10:03 AM
?
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Nizzy on May 12, 2005, 02:11:08 AM
What up guys,

I'm a junior at an Ivy League school, have near a 3.3 (got the nasty grade trend, 2.8 1st 3 semesters, 3.8 next 3 semesters) VP of my class, Capt of a Varsity Sport and in ROTC.  What do I need on the LSAT to get into a top 10? Advice would be greatly appreciated.  I'm in the testmasters class right now and I scored a 155 on the 1st diagnostic.

Schools 11-14 not doin it for yah?  Decent first diag, but you'll prolly need something close to a 170 to have good shot
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: faith2005 on May 12, 2005, 09:28:06 AM
Just concentrate on studying for the LSAT, then after that, you'll be able to get a better of idea of what schools to apply to. Put as much time as possible into the lsat, like study everyday for at least 2 hours. One of my friends told me to study 3-4 hrs. everyday, but I couldn't do that much. I started out with a 155, but my score didn't improve as much as I wanted it to, i also heard that the test I took was pretty difficult. who knows? I have a friend who's score went from 155-170, so you can do it!
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on May 12, 2005, 07:22:55 PM
Get some good recommendation letters from dues paying alumni that may help...

of course I do know someone whose mother is a state supreme court justice and his father is a judge and he didn't get in his first choice, which was their alma mater...i really believe he must have applied late.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Nizzy on May 13, 2005, 01:12:06 AM
Oh btw, didn't notice what section of the board this was posted on.  Are you a URM?
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: V00Jeff on May 13, 2005, 10:39:07 PM
Maybe 168-170 or so?

Study hard for the LSAT.  I scored in the low 150's on my first test and studied A TON and got a 176 on the real thing...Studying definitely pays off.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Lola_lee04 on May 14, 2005, 09:54:05 AM
Hi, I rarely post but just wanted to comment.  I think people are overestimating the lsat score you need to get into top schools if you are an URM.  I currently attend a top 10 school and my lsat score was about 9 points below the median.  However, I did have a very good gpa (3.8).  I was also accepted at 2 higher ranked schools than the one I attend now (top 5).  I would try to do the best you can but don't limit your choices simply based on on your lsat.  The worst that can happen is that you will be rejected; but don't limit yourself and always wonder where you could have gotten into. 
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Playa222 on May 14, 2005, 01:18:52 PM
Hi, I rarely post but just wanted to comment.  I think people are overestimating the lsat score you need to get into top schools if you are an URM.  I currently attend a top 10 school and my lsat score was about 9 points below the median.  However, I did have a very good gpa (3.8).  I was also accepted at 2 higher ranked schools than the one I attend now (top 5).  I would try to do the best you can but don't limit your choices simply based on on your lsat.  The worst that can happen is that you will be rejected; but don't limit yourself and always wonder where you could have gotten into. 

Thanks alot. That's somewhat relieving to know.  I guess though since my GPA is lower i'll have to make up for it somewhat on the test, which kind of sucks.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: dave303 on May 14, 2005, 01:32:28 PM
You have a shot with a 160-165, might not get into HYS but certainly have a good chance at penn. If you don't mind spending the cash I would recommend just sending an application to the entire top 14 and perhaps 1 safety. If you can get a fee waiver from LSAC most of those apps would be free.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Statistic on May 14, 2005, 01:34:25 PM
162 and up and you should feel confident
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Nizzy on May 14, 2005, 02:48:46 PM
Yeah, considering URM status, a 165 would probably give you a good shot at all but the top few schools.  A 3.3 might not be stellar, but it is an upward trend, and it is an Ivy.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: blk_reign on May 14, 2005, 07:24:22 PM
I'm tired of hearing or reading all of the considering URM bull...it gets played, and since I've been on the board since January, I've read about it more than a little bit... there are white people that get into a T10 with the same damn numbers...but people don't seem to trip over them so much...

Playa you got a 155 on the first diagnostic... I'm sure that you'll get 162 or higher and you'll get in wherever you want to go... btw welcome to the board...

Yeah, considering URM status, a 165 would probably give you a good shot at all but the top few schools.  A 3.3 might not be stellar, but it is an upward trend, and it is an Ivy.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Nizzy on May 15, 2005, 01:44:45 AM
I'm tired of hearing or reading all of the considering URM bull...it gets played, and since I've been on the board since January, I've read about it more than a little bit... there are white people that get into a T10 with the same damn numbers...but people don't seem to trip over them so much...

Playa you got a 155 on the first diagnostic... I'm sure that you'll get 162 or higher and you'll get in wherever you want to go... btw welcome to the board...

Yeah, considering URM status, a 165 would probably give you a good shot at all but the top few schools.  A 3.3 might not be stellar, but it is an upward trend, and it is an Ivy.

No desire to start anything, but what was the point of the beginning of your post besides expressing your annoyance with reality?  The man says he wants to go to Columbia or Penn, remember, and people gave their best guess based on their observations of what LSAT he would need.  No one said anything about whether being a URM should give you a boost.  No doubt it gets overplayed, but it is a relevant factor in this case nonetheless.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: St. Shaun on May 15, 2005, 02:36:04 AM
I studied for months and took over 20 simulated tests and only improved my score 2 points over my diagnostic test.  Studying does help some, but for some people it doesn't help much (my 5 test average was up around 6 points above my diagnostic before I took the test).
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Playa222 on May 15, 2005, 02:53:05 PM
How many prep tests have the rest of you done?  So far I've done 4 since the start of my class and already got my score up 3 points to 158.  I'm planning to do at least 15 more before the June test and finish as much of the hw as I possibly can.  I'm not too worried about burning out because I keep the thought in the back of my mind that my future depends on this as motivation.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: hilljack on May 15, 2005, 03:12:58 PM
I've done 23 and seen consistant improvement.  My first was 156, which is very close to yours.  If you are like me, some things will click fast, and some will take some time, but the more you do, the better you'll do.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: Nizzy on May 15, 2005, 03:57:06 PM
Started at 157 and ended up with a 168 on the test.  Improvement is obviously dependent on your abilities, but keep doin those tests.
Title: Re: Help? where can I get in? What do I need on the LSAT for a T10?
Post by: guyboston on May 20, 2005, 10:46:25 AM
My ex/gf had a 164 and a 3.4.  Majored in Economics from a tier 2 undergrad.

I told her to apply to the top 7 shcools.  She got into everywhere but was WL at Yale.

She is graduating HLS in June.


Hope that helps you.
Title: Law School Numbers
Post by: CocoPuff on June 24, 2005, 07:20:21 PM
According to lawschoolnumbers.com, a Black female with a 3.3/161 can get into Harvard, Stanford, Columbia and Georgetown. The numbers and results for non-urms seems to be a lot different. Either thest people are lying, or I need to stop worrying so much about my stats. Is it possible that it's true, a minority has a good chance of getting in with these low #'s?
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: A. on June 24, 2005, 09:15:17 PM
Depends on what else you have going for you.  I'd say GULC, yes.  The others seem unlikely unless you have done some good stuff.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on June 24, 2005, 10:07:54 PM
That's the wrong mentality to have.  Someone can get into those places with those numbers, perhaps, but people right here on BLSD were also rejected from similar schools with higher numbers.  There are no guarantees.  You need to have a strong overall package, esp. if you're coming into it with marginal numbers (for your target schools.)  For all you know, the 3.3/161 could be a published author or overcome some amazing obstacles.  Don't allow your URM status to make you too comfortable.  Best of luck and PM me if I can be of any help.
Title: Chances?
Post by: Dotson on June 26, 2005, 05:13:54 PM
*
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: Faure on June 26, 2005, 05:15:54 PM
Apply to all. You've got a good chance at all the top 10 schools.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 27, 2005, 11:02:11 AM
Dotson,
welcome to the board!  what part of South Carolina are you from?

I would say you'd have a excellent shot at all but perhaps HYS unless you can explain away the GPA or you've got some other factors that would make you stand out in which case H+S are definite possibilities.  Yale I think would be a stretch given the GPA.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 27, 2005, 11:13:03 AM
I say apply everywhere, one can never tell how extracurriculars, work experience and recommendations play into the mix. All they can do is say no, so why not apply?
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: faith2005 on June 27, 2005, 11:50:10 AM
what kind of school did you go to? or what was your major? I think a 3.23 from HYS will get you into HYS with that lsat score. and depending on your major at whatever school you went to, you'll have a good chance at those schools as well. good luck!
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: Dotson on June 27, 2005, 12:25:34 PM
*
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: faith2005 on June 27, 2005, 12:37:28 PM
i think it depends on the school, but the ones i applied to did fee waivers for financial circumstances. it slowed down the process considerably in my case though. i applied and sent in the fee waiver application to a couple of schools and didn't get any notice that my app had been received and processed until like 4 weeks after my applications were in. it was really weird. i think it was a good idea that i didn't do it for all of the schools i applied to b/c if it had delayed all of my applications, that might have been a problem b/c i didn't apply until december/january.

i think you have really good chances wherever you apply. if you really want to go to hys, i would suggest you start talking to the folks on the board/or who you know personally who go there and get their suggestions about your ps etc.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 27, 2005, 12:38:58 PM
Thanks for the advice.  I graduated from UNC in 2003 and majored in econ.  I have been getting "apply everywhere" from a lot of people but that is going to be very expensive.  Does anyone know how and when schools decide to give you a application fee waiver?  Do they look at your LSAT only or work experience as well?  I don't know if I can explain away my grades but I did work while in school so I will mention that.  I feel like my post college work experience is solid = worked for Sen. Edwards Senate office for 2 years and now as a legislative analyst at lobbying firm in DC.  Hopefully this will be enough to make up for my low grades.  I know this sounds crazy but does anyone think it makes sense to retake the lsat and try to move up to a 177 range.  3.2/177 looks a lot better than 3.2/171  

I think that is stupid.  If you retake a 171, I personally will come over there and knock you over the head.  Save your money and the angst.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 27, 2005, 12:42:41 PM
Thanks for the advice.  I graduated from UNC in 2003 and majored in econ.  I have been getting "apply everywhere" from a lot of people but that is going to be very expensive.  Does anyone know how and when schools decide to give you a application fee waiver?  Do they look at your LSAT only or work experience as well?  I don't know if I can explain away my grades but I did work while in school so I will mention that.  I feel like my post college work experience is solid = worked for Sen. Edwards Senate office for 2 years and now as a legislative analyst at lobbying firm in DC.  Hopefully this will be enough to make up for my low grades.  I know this sounds crazy but does anyone think it makes sense to retake the lsat and try to move up to a 177 range.  3.2/177 looks a lot better than 3.2/171  

hey, can you get me a job?
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: blk_reign on June 27, 2005, 12:47:59 PM
i don't know how the waivers work..but you're right the app process is expensive... make a list of your top schools and your safeties and apply..

market yourself the same way that you'd market yourself for your career.. if you have a dream school.. apply to it.. as pearl said..all they can do is say no.. and in that regard nothing will change..but if you don't apply.. you'll never know what the outcome could be

don't settle because you don't think you can get in...

what kind of law do you want to study?
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: Dotson on June 27, 2005, 01:07:51 PM
If I keep posting on this site at work, I may be looking for a job too.  I want to stay involved in democratic politics as well as practice.  From what I have read the best way to do that is to join up with a big firm.  I do not want to be a corporate attorney though.  I would like to do work in a field where I can make a difference and really help people, and not just line my pockets.   
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: Faure on June 27, 2005, 01:36:40 PM
If I keep posting on this site at work, I may be looking for a job too.  I want to stay involved in democratic politics as well as practice.   I would like to do work in a field where I can make a difference and really help people, and not just line my pockets.   

Hey Dotson! I think you should go to the school that offers you the most money. With your numbers, you should have plenty of cash coming your way. It will be difficult to line your pockets, let alone pay off your student loans, if you truly want to help people out. It's refreshing to see someone on this board that is interested in something besides BIG LAW! Best of luck ;)
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: ellenbee on June 27, 2005, 03:07:47 PM
Congrats on your score!  ;D
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: risingMC on June 27, 2005, 03:33:44 PM
If there's anything that's going to hold you back it's going to be that GPA ... which you can do nothing about at this point. Apply to all of the t14 schools; I don't think you'll have to worry about not getting into a top 10 school.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 27, 2005, 05:15:06 PM
According to lawschoolnumbers.com, a Black female with a 3.3/161 can get into Harvard, Stanford, Columbia and Georgetown. The numbers and results for non-urms seems to be a lot different. Either thest people are lying, or I need to stop worrying so much about my stats. Is it possible that it's true, a minority has a good chance of getting in with these low #'s?

I wouldn't put too much stock into those sites, who is to say that the person is actually putting in their correct information. People lie all the time about law school applications, LSAT scores etc.  I mean you can never tell what may move the admissions committee. I don't put much stock into "predicting" whether you will get into a school..within reason..obviously if you have a 2.6 and 145 you probably aren't going to get into many schools. But don't compare yourself to other people.  Like there are folks who may have those scores who worked for a fortune 500 company for two years, majored in a hard science,  have recommendations from powerful alumni, elected officials, etc...you just never know. I say just worry about making your applications the best you can.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on June 27, 2005, 05:25:11 PM
Dotson, you need to give me your current job...lol...sounds more interesting than law. I lobby also, but unfortunately it's only 50% of our practice.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: A. on June 27, 2005, 05:31:59 PM
I echo the apply-to-the-t14 advice.  You could probably drop a few of the bottom t14 if you know you don't want to go there.  For instance, I didn't apply to Boalt or Northwestern.  Lots of schools let you retroactively apply their fee waivers, so don't delay your apps just to wait for a fee waiver.  Finally, your LSAT score is great...don't retake and risk doing worse (look at the retake stats for the 170s).
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: _____ on June 27, 2005, 05:51:28 PM
Thanks for the advice.  I graduated from UNC in 2003 and majored in econ.  I have been getting "apply everywhere" from a lot of people but that is going to be very expensive.  Does anyone know how and when schools decide to give you a application fee waiver?  Do they look at your LSAT only or work experience as well?  I don't know if I can explain away my grades but I did work while in school so I will mention that.  I feel like my post college work experience is solid = worked for Sen. Edwards Senate office for 2 years and now as a legislative analyst at lobbying firm in DC.  Hopefully this will be enough to make up for my low grades.  I know this sounds crazy but does anyone think it makes sense to retake the lsat and try to move up to a 177 range.  3.2/177 looks a lot better than 3.2/171  

They decide to send you the waivers based on the LSAT and GPA Information on your LSAC account.

To get any waivers, you must sign up with CRS.  To do this, go to the LSAC website, click on the Profile Tab --> Authorizations --> and check "Release my info to ABA approved schools."

You can also release your info to NON-ABA approved schools, but there's no real point in that considering where you intend to end up.

My advice: Use any and all of these waivers (even those in the 30-50 range) and then blanket the Top 20 (there should be some overlap).  Each waiver means applying to that law school costs only $12 (for the LSAC report, which you must pay no matter what--the waivers only waive the school's fees, not the LSDAS fees).

I basically DOUBLED my exposure from 12 schools to 25 by using waivers (12 schools x 12 reports = $144).  Any school that doesn't give you a waiver will cost you the $60/70/80 PLUS the $12 report fee.  And keep in mind that these reports must be prepaid--otherwise your application, though submitted to the school, will never go complete.

So yeah, it's expensive, but the waivers are a good way to hedge your bets on the cheap, and you just never know how things are going to work out for you!  Better to cast your net wide once than to be unhappy with the results and have to do it all again later...

GOOD LUCK!


Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: Dotson on June 28, 2005, 07:15:38 AM
This has been extremely helpful.  I've read online about the majority of the schools I am planning on applying to and am going to spend the rest of June and early July reading on the rest.  Does anyone have any insight they could share about how they like/fit in/feel about being a minority at their school?  Are any school atmospheres extremely hostile and others more welcoming?  You can't really get the most objective assestment from the school websites. 
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: risingMC on June 28, 2005, 08:25:17 AM
This has been extremely helpful.  I've read online about the majority of the schools I am planning on applying to and am going to spend the rest of June and early July reading on the rest.  Does anyone have any insight they could share about how they like/fit in/feel about being a minority at their school?  Are any school atmospheres extremely hostile and others more welcoming?  You can't really get the most objective assestment from the school websites. 

You'll get a better feel once you're at the admit weekend. Usually they'll have a minority-themed session or, as was the case for Stanford, have us arrive a day or two earlier. If you're looking at Boalt, though, all of my friends have felt very, very welcome there. It's probably one of the most welcoming places for minorities, actually.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: risingMC on June 28, 2005, 08:53:32 AM
I don't see any minority with those numbers on LSN. At least, not on a legitimate-looking account.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: faith2005 on June 28, 2005, 09:08:37 AM
i have around those numbers on lsn, but i didn't get into columbia, stanford etc. mc, maybe she's looking at something from past years?
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: risingMC on June 28, 2005, 09:15:57 AM
i have around those numbers on lsn, but i didn't get into columbia, stanford etc. mc, maybe she's looking at something from past years?

Maybe ... I'll take a look.

EDIT: nope.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: faith2005 on June 28, 2005, 10:22:07 AM
hmm, mc, thats weird. i didn't see anything like that either. esp. if you go through the schools and check for people who've been accepted. strange huh? :-\
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: CocoPuff on June 28, 2005, 10:37:47 AM
hmm, mc, thats weird. i didn't see anything like that either. esp. if you go through the schools and check for people who've been accepted. strange huh? :-\

That's true now that I look...I was going off these:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?cycle=0405&user=Shaquan

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?cycle=0405&user=luckyblackman

and there's more where that came from. I guess they could be lying...who knows.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: jassulli on June 28, 2005, 10:44:41 AM
my suspicion is that some people troll on that site and make those types of (fake) accounts to rile up people who are against affirmative action, or turn people against it who arent otherwise.  this isnt to say theyre all fake, but i wouldnt take it too seriously, if i were you.  aim where you want, and do the best with what you have.  good luck.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: Dotson on June 28, 2005, 11:06:26 AM
Okay.  I read some post and articles about writing a personal statement and not solely relying on and over doing your minority status.  When you guys wrote your statements how did you handle that?  I figured anyone can write on traditional stereotypical hardships facing minorities statement even if they don't necessarily apply to them.  Did any of you not even mention the fact the you are a minority? 
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 28, 2005, 11:15:09 AM
Ahhhhhhhhh the infamous "what are my chances?" post.  Yo, Dotson, your numbers are stellar, son.  Hit up everything. It basically will come down to where do you want to live for the next 3 years?

oh yeah, and BTW check out this post in the 1L thread, it sounds like its up your alley:

Subject: Fwd: Summer internship: African Amer. law or collegestudent...

FYI: If you know of anyone interested, please pass it on.

I'm working for the Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee on
Capitol Hill.

I'm trying to solicit some internship applications for this summer from
African Americans - law students or college students. If you know any
students who might be interested for this summer (I know its super late
in the game for this) please have them contact me. Of course we take
applications from anyone. But we have 7 black lawyers on staff and have
hardly had a single black intern over the last 3 years so we've raised
that concern with our boss and we're trying to find some candidates.
We would also welcome any law graduates of course.

Our work involves writing letters, speeches, legal/policy memos and
managing legislation on a wide range of issues including: telecom,
antitrust, civil rights, immigration, refugees and asylum, tort reform
(medical malpractice), federal courts (administrative and legislation
stripping courts of jurisdiction), constitutional issues (abortion, stem

cell research, church and state issues), bankruptcy, homeland security,
border security, terrorism, torture and detention, intellectual
property, internet law and regulation, crime, and oversight of DOJ, FBI,

DHS among other things. There is no pay, of course, this being Capitol
Hill. Interns can basically make their own schedule. We take interns
year round.

I appreciate any help you can offer. And please go ahead and send this
to anyone you think appropriate.

Thank you!

Kristin Wells (Columbia '96)
Minority Counsel
House Judiciary Committee
Rayburn HOB B-351-C
Washington, DC 20515
ph: 202-225-6906
fx: 202-225-7680

Ruth J. Beard
Consultant, Coach, Trainer
<file://www.leadershipedge.com> www.leadershipedge.com
404 315-7625
404 771-1950 (cell)

Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on June 28, 2005, 11:24:15 AM
my suspicion is that some people troll on that site and make those types of (fake) accounts to rile up people who are against affirmative action, or turn people against it who arent otherwise.  this isnt to say theyre all fake, but i wouldnt take it too seriously, if i were you.  aim where you want, and do the best with what you have.  good luck.

(S)he is right about this.  Even the names - "Shaquan", "LuckyBlackMan" - sound like a vicious anti-AA person came up with them.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: _____ on June 28, 2005, 11:29:14 AM
Okay.  I read some post and articles about writing a personal statement and not solely relying on and over doing your minority status.  When you guys wrote your statements how did you handle that?  I figured anyone can write on traditional stereotypical hardships facing minorities statement even if they don't necessarily apply to them.  Did any of you not even mention the fact the you are a minority? 

In my PS, I wrote about why I wanted to study law and become a lawyer.  I didn't mention being a minority at all, because that had nothing to do with why I wanted to become a lawyer.

Now, for example, if you want to write something about how your two years on Capitol Hill have shown you that there is a need for a black legal voice in American politics, and that's why you want to be a lawyer--then don't shy away from that. But always do so in the context of "I need this education so that I can contribute to an underserved area", not "I'm a minority, so I deserve this".  Make sense?  It's kind of a fine line to walk given that the personal statement is written and not spoken.

Meanwhile, if you have had significant hardships that can explain other aspects of application (ie. I have a 3.23 GPA because I had to work 25 hours per week while studying full time just to pay tuition and rent), put that in an addendum.

Your personal statement should be just that: a statement about yourself--who you are, what you aspire to be.  Addendums can be used to explain anything else regarding hardships that affected your GPA, time to graduation, etc....
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: CocoPuff on June 28, 2005, 11:54:23 AM
my suspicion is that some people troll on that site and make those types of (fake) accounts to rile up people who are against affirmative action, or turn people against it who arent otherwise.  this isnt to say theyre all fake, but i wouldnt take it too seriously, if i were you.  aim where you want, and do the best with what you have.  good luck.

(S)he is right about this.  Even the names - "Shaquan", "LuckyBlackMan" - sound like a vicious anti-AA person came up with them.

True. And they also have no dates which makes it look a little fishy. Oh well, guess what you have all said is right. I will just have to work it out...do my best and pray that my best is good enough to get into my top choices.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: faith2005 on June 28, 2005, 11:57:02 AM
but christina, even those people you listed didn't have the numbers you claimed in your op, even if they are fake accounts. a few points on the lsat, a few points on the gpa do make a difference in your acceptances i think. so someone with a 164 or a 3.5 might get in over someone with a 3.3 or a 161. and that luckyblackman site might be a fake, but being in the military is no joke, and i'd be hard-pressed to think that didn't have something to do with him getting accepted, even with a 3.1. the admissions game is about the numbers, but its not a guarantee of being accepted or rejected.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: jassulli on June 28, 2005, 12:00:49 PM
luckyblackman also has "you all should get anna ivey to write [your personal statement] too!"  seems like the account is there to rile people.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Hello! on June 28, 2005, 12:02:08 PM
Christina,

Your URM status will likely afford you the opportunity to get an application a closer look at some schools than a non-URM might get. Therefore, it definitely behooves you to put your very best foot forward. Don't forget some safety schools, but shoot for the stars!
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: faith2005 on June 28, 2005, 12:06:44 PM
who is anna ivey?
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 28, 2005, 12:09:56 PM
she's this admissions counselor/former admissions director who makes money off of helping anxious pre-laws.  make friends with the old heads on this board and you can get the same advice for free. 
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: A. on June 28, 2005, 01:41:15 PM
Yeah, I e-mailed her about looking at my PS...she said it would cost $225 per hour!  Glad I didn't waste my money.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: A. on June 28, 2005, 01:45:49 PM
Yale was slightly less comfy than the others because I was floored by being one of only TWO Af-Am women at Admit Weekend.

I wonder how those numbers eventually worked out.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 28, 2005, 01:49:36 PM
Damn, that is a lot of money to pay!!!!!!
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: John Galt on June 28, 2005, 01:50:41 PM
What part of South Carolina are you from? I'm from Greenville.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: CocoPuff on June 28, 2005, 02:09:11 PM
But if you don't have access to an admissions counselor, or that kind of money, who do you go to for essay help? Undergrad professors? Pre-Law advisors? It seems like no matter who I go to, no one is going to be as good as some one who used to help students get into law school for a living.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on June 28, 2005, 02:19:29 PM
But if you don't have access to an admissions counselor, or that kind of money, who do you go to for essay help? Undergrad professors? Pre-Law advisors? It seems like no matter who I go to, no one is going to be as good as some one who used to help students get into law school for a living.

Come to us and other law-focused people. Read How to Get Into the Top Law Schools.  Pre-law advisors and undergrad profs are hit-or-miss, and there is no way you should shell out a lot of money for someone to make your essay look just like many other applicants' work.  Read examples online and in books.  Some people who have already applied may let you read theirs as well.
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 28, 2005, 02:33:09 PM
Yale was slightly less comfy than the others because I was floored by being one of only TWO Af-Am women at Admit Weekend.

I wonder how those numbers eventually worked out.

Me too.  I only know there will be at least 4 Black women. 

...and only two "regulars."  ;) ;) at E. (and btw, CONGRATS on finishing up! ;D I can't wait till you get back.  Don't work in DC tho 'cause that will be too many people there to visit.)

that sh*t is not funny!  >:( divide and conquer.  besides it is more like 3 to 1 or 3 to 2.
eh, I think DC is looking unlikely looking at the prices for housing right now. ick.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 28, 2005, 02:58:59 PM
But if you don't have access to an admissions counselor, or that kind of money, who do you go to for essay help? Undergrad professors? Pre-Law advisors? It seems like no matter who I go to, no one is going to be as good as some one who used to help students get into law school for a living.

Come to us and other law-focused people. Read How to Get Into the Top Law Schools.  Pre-law advisors and undergrad profs are hit-or-miss, and there is no way you should shell out a lot of money for someone to make your essay look just like many other applicants' work.  Read examples online and in books.  Some people who have already applied may let you read theirs as well.

GOOD ADVICE!!! :)
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on June 28, 2005, 03:08:16 PM
But if you don't have access to an admissions counselor, or that kind of money, who do you go to for essay help? Undergrad professors? Pre-Law advisors? It seems like no matter who I go to, no one is going to be as good as some one who used to help students get into law school for a living.

Come to us and other law-focused people. Read How to Get Into the Top Law Schools.  Pre-law advisors and undergrad profs are hit-or-miss, and there is no way you should shell out a lot of money for someone to make your essay look just like many other applicants' work.  Read examples online and in books.  Some people who have already applied may let you read theirs as well.

GOOD ADVICE!!! :)

Aww...thanks! Just trying to follow in your footsteps. :-* ;)
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 28, 2005, 03:58:13 PM
But if you don't have access to an admissions counselor, or that kind of money, who do you go to for essay help? Undergrad professors? Pre-Law advisors? It seems like no matter who I go to, no one is going to be as good as some one who used to help students get into law school for a living.

Come to us and other law-focused people. Read How to Get Into the Top Law Schools.  Pre-law advisors and undergrad profs are hit-or-miss, and there is no way you should shell out a lot of money for someone to make your essay look just like many other applicants' work.  Read examples online and in books.  Some people who have already applied may let you read theirs as well.

GOOD ADVICE!!! :)

Aww...thanks! Just trying to follow in your footsteps. :-* ;)

You are very welcome.  Awwwwww, you are a sweet person.   :-[ :-*  You ready for school in the fall????
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: blk_reign on June 28, 2005, 06:05:31 PM
American University dorms..look into their rates
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: CocoPuff on June 28, 2005, 06:56:06 PM
Yes, Mobell that is really good advice and I will definitely follow it. I'm really anal when it comes to papers and things like that, but there's no better help than that coming from those who have been there, done that and been successfull so thanks!
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: risingMC on June 28, 2005, 07:23:06 PM
Okay.  I read some post and articles about writing a personal statement and not solely relying on and over doing your minority status.  When you guys wrote your statements how did you handle that?  I figured anyone can write on traditional stereotypical hardships facing minorities statement even if they don't necessarily apply to them.  Did any of you not even mention the fact the you are a minority? 

My personal statement was more about the stuff I'd overcome, and my family's background had alot to do with it. It was probably more socioeconomically-focused than race-focused, though, and even *that* was part of a general theme of overcoming obstacles ... be it a poor background, first semester at college, etc.

Mobell: I wanna know why you felt uncomfortable @ stanford. I probably already know (and it's probably close to my feelings as well), but still. PM me!
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: risingMC on June 28, 2005, 07:53:18 PM
There are also some books especially tailored to the personal statements of minorities, Af Ams in particular. I couldn't find too many for Latinos at the library, though. Also, I think the PDF at www.forpeopleofcolor.org might be of help, too.
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: Lawprofessor on June 29, 2005, 02:38:51 AM
But if you don't have access to an admissions counselor, or that kind of money, who do you go to for essay help? Undergrad professors? Pre-Law advisors? It seems like no matter who I go to, no one is going to be as good as some one who used to help students get into law school for a living.

Come to us and other law-focused people. Read How to Get Into the Top Law Schools.  Pre-law advisors and undergrad profs are hit-or-miss, and there is no way you should shell out a lot of money for someone to make your essay look just like many other applicants' work.  Read examples online and in books.  Some people who have already applied may let you read theirs as well.

GOOD ADVICE!!! :)

Aww...thanks! Just trying to follow in your footsteps. :-* ;)

You are very welcome.  Awwwwww, you are a sweet person.   :-[ :-*  You ready for school in the fall????

I am actually counting the minutes.  We just lost a race that I was working on down here...sometimes I think I never want to come back to this state! >:( :'(

I know the feeling.  Dont worry, that time will get here soon enough. :)  Sorry that you lost a race, but that is probably a good reason why you SHOULD be going back there.  (if I am correct, you are in SC, right?)  SC needs you to come back and bring your skills, abilities, enthusiasm, education and local knowledge to help turn things around.  Dont be discouraged. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: Dotson on June 29, 2005, 08:32:49 AM
*
Title: Re: Chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 30, 2005, 05:22:54 AM
American University dorms..look into their rates
I did.  :(  :'(

Rates
Main Campus and Tenley Campus: $221 per person/per week for double occupancy and $269 per person/per week for single occupancy. (Remember, singles are limited and requests that we cannot honor automatically default to double accommodations.) Interns also have the option of requesting a Double Room as a Single since our single rooms are limited.

Double as a Single: Depending on occupancy, Summer Interns who wish to be housed in singles but aren't able to be assigned to one may be given the option of buying out their double room and keeping it as a single for the summer. Students living in bought-out singles will be charged at a rate that is only slightly higher, $300 per week. You may indicate your preference for a "Double as a Single" on your online application.

Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 30, 2005, 06:07:25 AM
Mobell,
You need to 86 the SC thing and chill in the Chocolate city getting more disillusioned--but happy
Title: Re: Law School Numbers
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 30, 2005, 09:50:01 AM
Mobell,
You need to 86 the SC thing and chill in the Chocolate city getting more disillusioned--but happy

I don't know about completely 86ing SC, but the Chocolate City is where I'd love to be right about now...or better yet, New HAVEN!  How many more days do we have left, E?

how many days of financial freedom to I have left?  haven't wanted to count  :'(
Title: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 08, 2005, 09:16:32 PM
I'm new to this website; a close friend recommended it. I took the June LSAT...didn't do so well. I'll be applying for admission in Fall 2006 with a 163/3.91.

I'm trying to get into Harvard (surprise, surprise).

What do you guys think my chances are? I think I need an impartial opinion.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: jdohno on July 08, 2005, 09:59:41 PM
I don't know about Harvard. But you have a good chance at some top schools like Michigan, Duke and Northwestern. You might want to go to the site lawschoolnumbers. And I think someone on this board got into Harvard. Good luck to you. I also sent you a message offline.

I'm new to this website; a close friend recommended it. I took the June LSAT...didn't do so well. I'll be applying for admission in Fall 2006 with a 163/3.91.

I'm trying to get into Harvard (surprise, surprise).

What do you guys think my chances are? I think I need an impartial opinion.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 08, 2005, 10:20:06 PM
I major in International Business and Finance at Howard.

I'm not too sure about Harvard either, but I'm definitely going to try my best to get in. I know I'll have to work my @$$ off. Thanks for your response and your best wishes, I was beginning to think no one would respond.  :)
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: carabinero on July 08, 2005, 10:30:04 PM
According to law school numbers your lsat is pretty low for Harvard law. But for all we know, half the numbers there could be fudged, although i doubt it. High 160s seems to be the lowest lsat that makes its way into the top few schools. Of course there are always other things to consider other than lsat scores, and your gpa is great. What about berkeley? They seem to take quite a few people with stats like yours. When I apply, I am going to spread my applications around pretty generously in hopes that at least a few will come through. I would make a list of all the schools you are willing/want to attend, go to http://www.chiashu.com/lsat.html and check out your chances on each of them (bearing in mind those percentages are a little high), and go from there. If you want to go to Harvard sending an app there couldnt hurt, but I would cover all the bases and spread yourself out a little bit to broaden your options. Lsac.org also has an odds calculator on their site that might be worth checking out as well, but its a bit more cluttered than chiashu. Good luck with everything. You have very good stats and you will get in somewhere you want to go.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 08, 2005, 10:44:10 PM
That's my plan; send a ton of apps out and see where I get in. Berkeley's definitely on the list, I just don't know if I would go there.

I think I'll see what schools I get into and decide whether I would want to go to any of them, or whether working for two years might be better.

Decisions, decisions. *sigh*

I'm hoping the fact that my business major will add to my diversity factor. I've spent a lot of time resume-building so hopefully my (limited) experience will help me out a little.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: John Galt on July 09, 2005, 02:02:34 AM
I major in International Business and Finance at Howard.

I'm not too sure about Harvard either, but I'm definitely going to try my best to get in. I know I'll have to work my @$$ off. Thanks for your response and your best wishes, I was beginning to think no one would respond.  :)

Yes, Howard to Harvard...yum.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 09, 2005, 09:17:09 AM
Quote

Yes, Howard to Harvard...yum.
Quote


Wishful thinking in your eyes?  :) I'm sure it's been done before.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: jdohno on July 09, 2005, 09:56:33 AM
Your major is a good solid one and your UGPA is high. Howard's undergrad school has made great strides and it's now a top 100 undergrad school. Go to the lawschoolnumbers site. I think the bottom LSAT score Harvard accepted was a 166/167. Also Harvard has been taking a lot of international students who have to pay the full tuition price. So that diversity factor might not be a huge help. There was a controversy last year because they are taking more international black students than American ones. I think you should apply to Harvard because you have nothing to lose. But who knows what's in Harvard's head. Right now you should start working on your personal statement because that can take many months.

But apply to as many top schools as you want to. If Harvard is your goal and you don't get in then you can go to another top school and either stay there or transfer to Harvard. But your numbers look great for the schools I stated above and for maybe Virginia and Boalt as the other poster pointed out. You have a lot of options. Good luck.

I major in International Business and Finance at Howard.

I'm not too sure about Harvard either, but I'm definitely going to try my best to get in. I know I'll have to work my @$$ off. Thanks for your response and your best wishes, I was beginning to think no one would respond.  :)
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 09, 2005, 10:02:32 AM
Your major is a good solid one and your UGPA is high. Howard's undergrad school has made great strides and it's now a top 100 undergrad school. Go to the lawschoolnumbers site. I think the bottom LSAT score Harvard accepted was a 166/167. Also Harvard has been taking a lot of international students who have to pay the full tuition price. So that diversity factor might not be a huge help. There was a controversy last year because they are taking more international black students than American ones. I think you should apply to Harvard because you have nothing to lose. But who knows what's in Harvard's head. Right now you should start working on your personal statement because that can take many months.

But apply to as many top schools as you want to. If Harvard is your goal and you don't get in then you can go to another top school and either stay there or transfer to Harvard. But your numbers look great for the schools I stated above and for maybe Virginia and Boalt as the other poster pointed out. You have a lot of options. Good luck.

I major in International Business and Finance at Howard.

I'm not too sure about Harvard either, but I'm definitely going to try my best to get in. I know I'll have to work my @$$ off. Thanks for your response and your best wishes, I was beginning to think no one would respond.  :)


Technically, I am an international student. I actually plan to highlight some of the challenges I faced as a recent immigrant in my PS.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: John Galt on July 09, 2005, 10:06:56 AM
Your major is a good solid one and your UGPA is high. Howard's undergrad school has made great strides and it's now a top 100 undergrad school. Go to the lawschoolnumbers site. I think the bottom LSAT score Harvard accepted was a 166/167. Also Harvard has been taking a lot of international students who have to pay the full tuition price. So that diversity factor might not be a huge help. There was a controversy last year because they are taking more international black students than American ones. I think you should apply to Harvard because you have nothing to lose. But who knows what's in Harvard's head. Right now you should start working on your personal statement because that can take many months.

But apply to as many top schools as you want to. If Harvard is your goal and you don't get in then you can go to another top school and either stay there or transfer to Harvard. But your numbers look great for the schools I stated above and for maybe Virginia and Boalt as the other poster pointed out. You have a lot of options. Good luck.

I major in International Business and Finance at Howard.

I'm not too sure about Harvard either, but I'm definitely going to try my best to get in. I know I'll have to work my @$$ off. Thanks for your response and your best wishes, I was beginning to think no one would respond.  :)

Nah a 161 got in I think and a 164. The people with Low LSATs also had low GPA's. I think Harvard or Yale might bite because of your high GPA.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: John Galt on July 09, 2005, 10:09:41 AM
Your major is a good solid one and your UGPA is high. Howard's undergrad school has made great strides and it's now a top 100 undergrad school. Go to the lawschoolnumbers site. I think the bottom LSAT score Harvard accepted was a 166/167. Also Harvard has been taking a lot of international students who have to pay the full tuition price. So that diversity factor might not be a huge help. There was a controversy last year because they are taking more international black students than American ones. I think you should apply to Harvard because you have nothing to lose. But who knows what's in Harvard's head. Right now you should start working on your personal statement because that can take many months.

But apply to as many top schools as you want to. If Harvard is your goal and you don't get in then you can go to another top school and either stay there or transfer to Harvard. But your numbers look great for the schools I stated above and for maybe Virginia and Boalt as the other poster pointed out. You have a lot of options. Good luck.

I major in International Business and Finance at Howard.

I'm not too sure about Harvard either, but I'm definitely going to try my best to get in. I know I'll have to work my @$$ off. Thanks for your response and your best wishes, I was beginning to think no one would respond.  :)


Technically, I am an international student. I actually plan to highlight some of the challenges I faced as a recent immigrant in my PS.

an immigrant, you are? Accepted, you might be. But remember, ambition is a way to the dark side. Think clearly, you must...
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: jdohno on July 09, 2005, 10:16:30 AM
I hope you get into to Harvard. It looks like you have a strong personal statement topic. I hope you and John Galt get in. Good luck to both of you.


Technically, I am an international student. I actually plan to highlight some of the challenges I faced as a recent immigrant in my PS.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 09, 2005, 10:26:21 AM
I hope you get into to Harvard. It looks like you have a strong personal statement topic. I hope you and John Galt get in. Good luck to both of you.



Thanks! BTW, if you guys haven't already seen Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, you should. I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, but that was an awesome movie.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on July 10, 2005, 03:07:19 PM
Once again, the infamous "what are you chances" post. 

Apply to everything, your numbers are stellar.  This past year, every cat on BLSD who applied to Harvard got in, so...
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 10, 2005, 06:08:30 PM
Once again, the infamous "what are you chances" post. 

Apply to everything, your numbers are stellar.  This past year, every cat on BLSD who applied to Harvard got in, so...

Hopefully that trend will continue!
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Muse on July 11, 2005, 07:56:28 AM
Awww memories..these post actually make me cringe sometimes but we've all been there and done that.

Annabel I say your chances are great at any school with the exception of Yale. (just because Yale is special LOL).

If you want Harvard, go for it. Just make sure other parts of your applications are on point. Your major and the fact that you came from a HBCU will really give you a boost in my opinon. Other than that apply EARLY, don't listen to any negativity, and RELAX. The hard part (Lsats) is done. There is no reason why all your applications shouldn't be turned in by mid September. Get on those letter of recs asap because those seem to take LSAC FOREVER to process. Also consider Columbia (HINT HINT). It's better than Harvard.

 ;D
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Muse on July 11, 2005, 08:35:04 AM
I TURNED THEM DOWN!

Mobell, you are going to Yale, why do you care if I want to believe that Columbia is better than HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARVARD LOL.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 11, 2005, 08:38:27 AM
I TURNED THEM DOWN!

Mobell, you are going to Yale, why do you care if I want to believe that Columbia is better than HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARVARD LOL.

Just out of curiousity, why'd you turn Harvard down?
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Muse on July 11, 2005, 08:47:14 AM
At the time I was thinking about location adn finances.
Columbia= no debt
Harvard= 70-100K in debt.

Honestly I vibed better at Columbia. I spent a week at Harvard shadowing my friend and it was cool but Columbia was just the obvious choice for me.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 11, 2005, 08:51:47 AM
At the time I was thinking about location adn finances.
Columbia= no debt
Harvard= 70-100K in debt.

Honestly I vibed better at Columbia. I spent a week at Harvard shadowing my friend and it was cool but Columbia was just the obvious choice for me.

I'm staying at Columbia this summer. Upper west side Manhattan is definitely a great area. And there's ALWAYS something to do in New York. I plan on visiting the law campus in a couple weeks. I'm sure you'll have a great time here...well, maybe after your 1L.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Muse on July 11, 2005, 08:58:42 AM
The Area is fantastic. I have an apartment in Upper West three miles from the school. On a serious note, visit all the schools you get accepted into. Don't fall into the hype of going to a particular school just because of what everyone else says. You might end up liking another institution over Harvard.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 11, 2005, 09:02:34 AM
The Area is fantastic. I have an apartment in Upper West three miles from the school. On a serious note, visit all the schools you get accepted into. Don't fall into the hype of going to a particular school just because of what everyone else says. You might end up liking another institution over Harvard.

I think that's great advice. Columbia is probably my second/third choice because I really love the area. I plan to visit Cambridge sometime this year. But most of the people who know me tell me that I would love the area.

My biggest fear though is snobby kids  :-\
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: John Galt on July 11, 2005, 09:20:07 AM
The Area is fantastic. I have an apartment in Upper West three miles from the school. On a serious note, visit all the schools you get accepted into. Don't fall into the hype of going to a particular school just because of what everyone else says. You might end up liking another institution over Harvard.

I think that's great advice. Columbia is probably my second/third choice because I really love the area. I plan to visit Cambridge sometime this year. But most of the people who know me tell me that I would love the area.

My biggest fear though is snobby kids  :-\

Snobbier than the kids at Howard? Come on, now...j/k
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: risingMC on July 11, 2005, 09:52:50 AM
I too think Harvard is a little unlikely, mostly because of the LSAT. It seems that HYS don't seem to dip below 165 or so.

However, you should apply to all of the top 14 schools or so. A see a likely top-10 acceptance!
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: jdohno on July 11, 2005, 11:18:47 AM
Did Columbia give you a full scholarship? If they did, did you give Harvard a chance to match?

At the time I was thinking about location adn finances.
Columbia= no debt
Harvard= 70-100K in debt.

Honestly I vibed better at Columbia. I spent a week at Harvard shadowing my friend and it was cool but Columbia was just the obvious choice for me.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: jdohno on July 11, 2005, 11:19:51 AM
Muse I thought you were from LA? Did you go to school at USC? Or are you a native New Yorker?

The Area is fantastic. I have an apartment in Upper West three miles from the school. On a serious note, visit all the schools you get accepted into. Don't fall into the hype of going to a particular school just because of what everyone else says. You might end up liking another institution over Harvard.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Muse on July 11, 2005, 12:17:44 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Muse on July 11, 2005, 12:29:00 PM
Well I might try out for Yale if I decide to get my LLM...
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 11, 2005, 12:30:52 PM
homie, why the heck would you do that?  LLMs seem rather useless
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Muse on July 11, 2005, 12:32:27 PM
im a useless person.    8)
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Nemesis on July 11, 2005, 12:38:45 PM
homie, why the heck would you do that?  LLMs seem rather useless

How is a LLM useless?
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 11, 2005, 12:43:51 PM
homie, why the heck would you do that?  LLMs seem rather useless

How is a LLM useless?

unless you are doing it in tax, it is rather useless.  the JD should suffice.  usually people only go for the LLM if they went to a less prestigious law school, neither of you have to worry about that.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: jdohno on July 11, 2005, 12:55:38 PM
Sorry I should have PM you.  :(



No I'm not a native New Yorker but I love the city. Yes I did go to USC.  My aunt (who passed away) left me her place. I was actually going to live with her anyway for law school. Did I answer all of your questions LOL.
Quote
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 11, 2005, 02:36:46 PM
homie, why the heck would you do that?  LLMs seem rather useless

How is a LLM useless?

unless you are doing it in tax, it is rather useless.  the JD should suffice.  usually people only go for the LLM if they went to a less prestigious law school, neither of you have to worry about that.

I would say tax, or IP at most.  The only other thing an LLM is good for is teaching if you went to a less prestigious law school and you are intrestested in teaching law.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 11, 2005, 09:49:54 PM
Most of the people I know that are in tax/estate planning have LLM degrees. Shoot I need to get me one...hmmm...how much financial aid could I flip for a year. :P
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: jdohno on July 11, 2005, 10:02:12 PM
Or have your employer pay for it for you.

Most of the people I know that are in tax/estate planning have LLM degrees. Shoot I need to get me one...hmmm...how much financial aid could I flip for a year. :P
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 11, 2005, 10:06:36 PM
homie, why the heck would you do that?  LLMs seem rather useless

Yo, I thought you were an academic?  What about the knowledge?? ;)
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: elegantpearl01 on July 12, 2005, 09:19:44 AM
Or have your employer pay for it for you.

Most of the people I know that are in tax/estate planning have LLM degrees. Shoot I need to get me one...hmmm...how much financial aid could I flip for a year. :P

Most employers are only paying for LLM degrees in tax.
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 12, 2005, 02:12:08 PM
homie, why the heck would you do that?  LLMs seem rather useless

Yo, I thought you were an academic?  What about the knowledge?? ;)

who told you that?
Title: Re: What are my chances?
Post by: guyboston on July 27, 2005, 10:49:13 AM
I actually know a girl who got in w/ a much lower gpa nd a 1 point higher lsat.

And a guy who got in w/ the same GPA and an identical LSAT.

I think it boils down to the intangibles.
Title: gpa/lsat split
Post by: 06hopeful on July 27, 2005, 08:20:42 PM
Does anyone know the deal with a high LSAT/low UGPA split... I heard that split only works if you are white, but for URMs, a high gpa/ low LSAT split is looked upon more favorably because they assume youre a hardworker who is bad at taking tests as opposed to a smart person who is just lazy... Any insight?
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: cali444 on July 27, 2005, 08:56:11 PM
I had a high LSAT/mediocre GPA split and it worked out okay.  I had some fairly exceptional extras, though, and I really think that made a big difference in my application outcomes.
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 27, 2005, 09:08:44 PM
Percentage-wise I also had a low GPA/high LSAT split.  I know at least one other poster on BLSD did as well.  We're both going to the law schools of our choice.  I don't think one split is more favorable than another.
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: 06hopeful on July 27, 2005, 09:11:56 PM
What were your numbers?  For a split of roughly  2.6/170--what do you think? Is the T14 out of the question?
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 27, 2005, 09:19:19 PM
What were your?  For a split of roughly  2.6/170.  What do you think? Is the T14 out of the question?

Hmm...well that's more of a split than I imagined.  Your chances depend on the circumstances behind that 2.6.  Please tell me you have an upward trend, majored in Chemistry, had 2 jobs, something like that.  You will need a special story to get a T14, even as an Af-Am with 170.  My numbers were 3.7/169...not a huge split but my gpa was not what it needed to be, imo.
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: cali444 on July 27, 2005, 09:24:24 PM
What were your numbers?  For a split of roughly  2.6/170--what do you think? Is the T14 out of the question?

Wow, that's quite a split.  I agree with Mobell--if you don't have a good excuse for the low GPA, you will probably be shut out of the top 14 schools.  However, you'll probably get offered a lot of money from lower-ranked schools.  But who knows, if you put together a good enough application (make sure everything else is flawless), you might be surprised at the schools that will accept you.
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: 06hopeful on July 27, 2005, 09:34:14 PM
If one were to ignore my first 2 years, I would be pretty much set...at the end of my 2nd year, I had a 1.x but was able to get it up to a 2.6. So, upward trend/full time employment throughout ugrad/ 2 years work experience...
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: lex19 on July 28, 2005, 06:39:43 AM
06, be sure to write an adendumm about your circumstances in undergrad and how they relate to your grades....and show that you made big strides during your last two years, hth and good luck
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: ckendall8kp on July 28, 2005, 07:55:22 AM
Hmmm, I had a split (high lsat (not a 170 though), relatively low gpa) as well but I got into all the schools I applied to except Columbia, UVA (waitlisted) and GW. I am going to GTown in the fall. I wouldn't say that it is impossible to get into a T14, but it is much harder if the GPA is lower. I also worked for a few years and had a lot of leadership experience and community service involvement.

Good luck.
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: Nadege on July 28, 2005, 08:20:36 AM
I agree with Lex that you should let them know why your numbers are the way they are so they have a little background to go with the stats. I had a split has well, but it fell along the lines of a really high GPA and an ok LSAT score.

06, be sure to write an adendumm about your circumstances in undergrad and how they relate to your grades....and show that you made big strides during your last two years, hth and good luck
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: 06hopeful on July 28, 2005, 11:38:49 AM
Thanks guys...I know it will be tough, but I'm up to it. Addenda seem like the way to go...
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: SkullTatt on July 30, 2005, 01:46:19 PM
The 2.6 is not as bad as it may sound if you had a hard science major, or engineering, or went to a school with a tough grading policy like a miliitary academy or a couple others who do not grade-inflate and the average GPA is in the high 2's.

In any case, like the others said, write a good addendum and make sure your app is flawless.
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on August 01, 2005, 11:37:17 AM
Man I would sacrifice a few tenths of my GPA (3.85) for a higher LSAT without hesitation (157). I really think the schools in the upper tiers are more LSAT driven than GPA driven,
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: 06hopeful on August 01, 2005, 11:44:03 AM
I was an Econ major--not exactly chemical engineering, but not exactly Communications, either.  No real help there. I just hope that the high LSAT/minority status will be and aide...

ocd:  you definitely don't want to be in my position.  I would kill for a 3.85.  Shoot, I'll even take a 2.85! and a 157 isn't horrible...
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on August 01, 2005, 11:46:36 AM
I was a econ major too. And yes a 157 is bad enough to possibly knock me out of T14 even as a URM
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: 06hopeful on August 01, 2005, 01:47:39 PM
Apply to U of Michigan. 
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: 06hopeful on August 01, 2005, 01:50:06 PM
...and retake the LSAT and aim for >163.
Title: Re: gpa/lsat split
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on August 01, 2005, 01:54:21 PM
I was a econ major too. And yes a 157 is bad enough to possibly knock me out of T14 even as a URM

Not true. Esp. if you have good ECs.
Title: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: datbol_06 on August 07, 2005, 01:19:42 AM
I am new to this conference and new to the idea of law school.  I intended on graduating with a BBA from Emory's Goizueta Business School and join the workforce with the intention on getting a MBA later but now I am considering attending law school.  I have approximately a 3.1-3.2 GPA and havent taken the LSATs although I have taken a practice exam and scored a 167.  I am considering UPENN, Emory,NYU, Georgetown, Temple, Howard, and HYS.  I really want to go to UPENN above all else.  I am wondering if I have a chance @ UPENN, Georgetown, HYS.  I have recs including an internship in Sierre Leone with a private firm involved with the rebuilding of the country's infrastructure, community service time with underprivileged youth in metro atlanta, involvement in the black student alliance and starting a niche oriented event planning company.  I am exploring input from those who have been there or know people in a similar situation as me.  I know my GPA is not the best but the program Im in at school is on a curve (e.g only the top 15% can get an A etc) so its really competitive and more challenging than staying in the college/liberal arts programs. 

Thanks for the input
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: A. on August 07, 2005, 02:14:22 PM
You should be fine for Penn if you can pull off a 167 and write a decent "Why Penn" essay.  You might want to include an addendum about the GPA, since LSDAS shows it in relation to all Emory students, not just those in the B-school.  If you get above a 165, I would cross Temple and Emory off your list.  With a 3.1, H, S, and especially Y will be a stretch, but stranger things have happened.
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: datbol_06 on August 07, 2005, 03:19:32 PM
You should be fine for Penn if you can pull off a 167 and write a decent "Why Penn" essay. You might want to include an addendum about the GPA, since LSDAS shows it in relation to all Emory students, not just those in the B-school. If you get above a 165, I would cross Temple and Emory off your list. With a 3.1, H, S, and especially Y will be a stretch, but stranger things have happened.

So are you saying that if I get over a 165 that I should not even apply to Temple or Emory?  or that they are guaranteed?
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: A. on August 07, 2005, 03:24:33 PM
Both.  If you score over a 165, you should focus on the T14.
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: datbol_06 on August 07, 2005, 03:26:50 PM
I am not sure if it matters at all but also my father is a Wharton alumni.  He graduated from the science/business program some 15 years ago.  I have heard of the legacy thing but am not sure if at all I could leverage that to my advantage.
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: A. on August 07, 2005, 03:33:08 PM
Your father being a Wharton alum won't matter for law school admissions.  Perhaps for b-school, but I don't know much about that.
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on August 07, 2005, 06:25:18 PM
Listen to "Bob." (;))  He knows what's he's talking about.

I will add that I probably wouldn't app to Y with a 3.1-3.2 unless you get 168 or above.  Of course you never know what could happen, but unless you have $70 you don't mind dropping on a dream or there's something absolutely, indescribably amazing in your background that you haven't shared, I wouldn't spend the time writing the 250. 

I'm not trying to be discouraging.  I think that with great packaging, a strong, non-whiny addendum on the GPA, and an LSAT of 165+, you have a shot at H and S and certainly Penn.  Even with something slightly lower than 165 you may have a chance with Penn.  Make sure you either get your app in very early or write the add'l essays: Penn had a bizarre admissions cycle this past year and there's really no telling what will happen this time around, esp. if their early app numbers are up again. Maybe you should apply to Penn Early Action so they know you're serious about them.

Why Penn, other than the fact that it's in the fam?  I'm curious, and answering this question will also give you a jumpstart on one of their optionals. ;)
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on August 07, 2005, 06:38:25 PM
Listen to "Bob." (;))  He knows what's he's talking about.

I will add that I probably wouldn't app to Y with a 3.1-3.2 unless you get 168 or above.  Of course you never know what could happen, but unless you have $70 you don't mind dropping on a dream or there's something absolutely, indescribably amazing in your background that you haven't shared, I wouldn't spend the time writing the 250. 

I'm not trying to be discouraging.  I think that with great packaging, a strong, non-whiny addendum on the GPA, and an LSAT of 165+, you have a shot at H and S and certainly Penn.  Even with something slightly lower than 165 you may have a chance with Penn.  Make sure you either get your app in very early or write the add'l essays: Penn had a bizarre admissions cycle this past year and there's really no telling what will happen this time around, esp. if their early app numbers are up again. Maybe you should apply to Penn Early Action so they know you're serious about them.

Why Penn, other than the fact that it's in the fam?  I'm curious, and answering this question will also give you a jumpstart on one of their optionals. ;)

Ditto to "Immobell." While I agree with Bob that stranger things have happened, a 3.1 is VERY low for HYS--if you can bump it up to a 3.3 with a strong LSAT you might have a shot at HS but it is very doubtful.  I think you'd stand a good chance at Penn--if you express interest in the joint certificate or MBA with Wharton I think you could get a slight bump considering the family connection--if your father hasn't already he may want to send a check to his alma mater.

And also I would say don't write about the forced curve in an addendum but instead have one of your recommenders explain the curve otherwise it looks like you are whining.  Besides 15% getting an A doesn't seem too strict to me; for the top schools you are competing with people who have kicked ass in their programs.     
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on August 07, 2005, 08:27:07 PM
Now that I think about it, ditto 'Tator's point on the whiny-sounding quality of the addendum curve.  If you don't want to rely on a recommender to take care of it, you can certainly do the addendum and make sure it sounds more like an "FYI" than a "cry me a river" - but ideally you could avoid any chance of sounding like a whiner by letting someone else explain the gpa away.
Title: Re: black BBA student....what are my chances?
Post by: A. on August 07, 2005, 09:55:27 PM
I agree that the addendum should not be whiny; however, it might be useful simply to point out that the b-school is on a different grading system from the rest of the university and that that should be taken into account when comparing his/her gpa to that of other Emory students.
Title: Admissions chances?
Post by: jakked188 on August 12, 2005, 06:53:38 PM
p
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: A. on August 12, 2005, 08:39:49 PM
The 2.6 will limit your t14 options.  I say apply to as many schools as you can in the 10-25 range.  You might get lucky.
Title: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: jerrica benton on August 13, 2005, 06:28:36 PM
i have a 3.1 gpa at a tier-2 undergrad.  i also have an upward trend and a sob story to tell, but i doubt the admissions people care.

as a black female, what lsat score do i need to have a good chance of admission to a t14 law school? 

how about the top 5?

any comments from anybody who knows someone who got admitted to a great law school with my gpa would be very appreciated.

thx
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: Equalizer on August 13, 2005, 06:36:47 PM
i have a 3.1 gpa at a tier-2 undergrad.  i also have an upward trend and a sob story to tell, but i doubt the admissions people care.

as a black female, what lsat score do i need to have a good chance of admission to a t14 law school? 

how about the top 5?

any comments from anybody who knows someone who got admitted to a great law school with my gpa would be very appreciated.

thx

What makes you think any score will give you a chance at the top 5?  Because you're a black female?
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: Equalizer on August 13, 2005, 06:41:46 PM
Thank God you posted this on the BLSD and not the main board.  Who in their right mind would even ask what their chances at a T14 are when all they have is a 2.6?  Oh, I know who.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: Equalizer on August 13, 2005, 06:44:18 PM
I am not trolling or being mean.  I am just trying to comprehend why you think being a black female should put you in line for the top 5 if your numbers don't match.  Maybe you should post this on BLSD.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: A. on August 13, 2005, 06:47:03 PM
158-160 should get you into the bottom.  165-170 should get you into CCN.  A 3.1 will probably preclude you from YHS.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: jerrica benton on August 13, 2005, 06:52:08 PM
and, here, i nitpick.

first off, i don't have numbers.  right now i have a number: a gpa.  i will not have "numbers" until october.  

until then, do not piss on what does not exist.

the primary reason i am asking the members of this board is that i asked a professional admissions counselor a similar question, and she told me that i should not aim any higher than my never-saw-an-lsat-wtf-is-on-it diagnostic score (which *barely* places me in the 90th percentile) because any larger split would be too "analogous."  

as that is a frightening view of how whites view blacks, i chose to get some other opinions.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: LegalLassie on August 13, 2005, 06:56:40 PM
and, here, i nitpick.

first off, i don't have numbers.  right now i have a number: a gpa.  i will not have "numbers" until october.  

until then, do not piss on what does not exist.

the primary reason i am asking the members of this board is that i asked a professional admissions counselor a similar question, and she told me that i should not aim any higher than my never-saw-an-lsat-wtf-is-on-it diagnostic score (which *barely* places me in the 90th percentile) because any larger split would be too "analogous."  

as that is a frightening view of how whites view blacks, i chose to get some other opinions.
I am confused about what this admissions counselor told you.  Sorry if I am being slow, but did she mean that you shouldn't plan on applying to anyplace outside the range of your very first, cold diag?  I am also not clear on what that has to do with how whites view blacks.  Maybe I am missing something.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: jerrica benton on August 13, 2005, 07:01:41 PM
she literally told me not to prep for the lsat.

she said that my score would get me into plenty of tier 1s and possibly some t14s, and to cancel my prep class.

now, this entire concept initially left me just as confused as u r.  i mean, it's common knowledge that law schools stress lsat scores like nobody's business, and the common advice is  to get the highest score you can. 

then, i realized that she was telling me that my diagnostic score was "good enough" and that anything too far from it would be too out of line with expectations for a black person.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: LegalLassie on August 13, 2005, 07:08:13 PM
Yikes!  I hope you didn't pay her for this gem of advice.  Anyway, I totally disagree with this.  I would say prep as you originally intended to.  The LSAT is a very learnable test and you could end up with a powerhouse score.  Also, no matter if you have one piece of your app that you think might be strong - don't let any other part of your app be weak.  I mean, aim for everything to be strong (lsat, gpa, lors, resume, essays) and I think you will be in good shape.  I also think that being an Afr. Am. will help your app because that is a sought after URM (whether a school will admit it or not), but again you shouldn't rely on any one thing because addcomms are unpredictable.  I would apply to all the big schools you are interested in, but don't overlook other schools that might work too because you never know who is going to offer you the best aid or give you the best gut feeling when you go and visit.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: squilla on August 13, 2005, 07:10:17 PM
she literally told me not to prep for the lsat.

she said that my score would get me into plenty of tier 1s and possibly some t14s, and to cancel my prep class.

now, this entire concept initially left me just as confused as u r.  i mean, it's common knowledge that law schools stress lsat scores like nobody's business, and the common advice is  to get the highest score you can. 

then, i realized that she was telling me that my diagnostic score was "good enough" and that anything too far from it would be too out of line with expectations for a black person.

Your race and gender aside, I would recommend taking official prep tests on your own until you are comfortable with the test and the types of questions that are asked.  Mainly so you don't accidentally mess up on the real deal.  A better score is always, well, better.  
Plus, going back to your race and gender, if you prep and do well enough, some upper schools may throw some money your way.  As a smart, black female, your chances are going to be great .. I think I have heard that it's like 10 extra lsat points(?), but for your own sake, do whatever is necessary.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: LegalLassie on August 13, 2005, 07:37:29 PM
Was it an admissions counselor at your school or a law school admissions consultant?  (If the latter, you have to spill the beans on who said it)
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: modernlifeiswar on August 13, 2005, 07:43:58 PM
for a bunch of future lawyers, you're pretty lame if you can't see that this is clearly flaimbait. Eveyone knows black people don't dream of the "t14" and the way she's playing the race card makes it too damn obvious. good try though.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: LegalLassie on August 13, 2005, 07:46:39 PM
I don't know.  Except for the fact that she is an extreme newbie, I wouldn't say 100% that it is flame.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: jerrica benton on August 13, 2005, 08:43:35 PM
Was it an admissions counselor at your school or a law school admissions consultant?  (If the latter, you have to spill the beans on who said it)

even if the lady is a crackpot, i think it's kind of bad to call her out on a message board. 

that being said, i'd be happy to privately divulge the woman's name.  she was a private consultant (and no, i didn't pay her). 
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: jerrica benton on August 13, 2005, 08:46:53 PM
for a bunch of future lawyers, you're pretty lame if you can't see that this is clearly flaimbait. Eveyone knows black people don't dream of the "t14" and the way she's playing the race card makes it too damn obvious. good try though.

wtf is this?  "black people don't dream of the t14"??

i honestly hope u r trolling.

and btw: i don't have to play the race card.  i'm black, that's an obvious fact, and people make bad comments toward black people (!)--yet another obvious fact.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: LegalLassie on August 13, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
Was it an admissions counselor at your school or a law school admissions consultant?  (If the latter, you have to spill the beans on who said it)

even if the lady is a crackpot, i think it's kind of bad to call her out on a message board. 

that being said, i'd be happy to privately divulge the woman's name.  she was a private consultant (and no, i didn't pay her). 

No worries. ;)  I have an idea who you mean, anyway.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: blk_reign on August 13, 2005, 09:30:13 PM
that's funny..the majority of the members of blsd are going to T14s...

so try again you ass..


for a bunch of future lawyers, you're pretty lame if you can't see that this is clearly flaimbait. Eveyone knows black people don't dream of the "t14" and the way she's playing the race card makes it too damn obvious. good try though.
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on August 14, 2005, 12:17:50 PM
I have a 3.0,but 2.6 LSAC in Criminal Justice and Political science, 165 LSAT, 2 years works experience as a real estate agent, worked on a city councilor campaign, and worked in a legislative office.  I was wondering what are my chances at a T-14 school.  By the way Im Haitian, my parents were born there, I was born here, and a male.  Any help greatly appreciated.

how upward a trend are we talking about and when did you get the work experience?  T14 is unlikely although if you have exteme extenuating circumstances you might be able to get into Duke/Cornell.  top 25 if you can write an excellent personal statement may be a possibility.  What happened in UG?
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: angmill08 on August 14, 2005, 12:54:30 PM
A 3.5 average last 4 semesters is good -- work hard this last year in school to raise that GPA average. I'd try to work in some easier classes this last year (in addition to upper level classes in your major, which you should work super hard on and get As) so you can get a 4.0 this year. Explain your work situation and focus on the upward GPA trend in your supplemental admissions essays, and send out lots of applications. With a 165 LSAT and a good explanatory essay, I think schools will probably be understanding about the difficulties you had in college the first year.
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on August 14, 2005, 04:04:21 PM
The upward trend was a 3.5 average for the last four semesters.  The work experience was all gained while going to college, worked full time as well as school full time.  Needed to pay for school so worked alot of hours, at the expense of school.  Looking back I probably should have taken a break.  I cant really make many excuses, first person in family to go to a four year school, and didnt really do well at first.  I adjusted, went on a trip to Haiti realized how much potential Im wasting then busted my ass.  If I go on to get a masters will adcoms over look undergrad?

if you got a masters and did well it would definitely help although your ug record would still be considered.  if you were thinking about doing the MA at the same school as you did UG you may want to see if you could graduate with a combined BA/MA and thereby boosting your UG gpa since unfortunately or fortunately depending on your perspective that is what USNEWs reports
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: Victor on August 15, 2005, 02:16:28 AM
Going to graduate school just so you can "up" your chances at law school is foolish to say the least. Dont listen to John Cusack-like posters that tell you different.


You have the work experience and you have the excellent lsat score. Just write an addendum for your GPA and give in a kick-ass personal statement. But before you do any of that, seriously mull over why you want to study law. Do you want to go law school just so you can pop up in the drop-top wearing your Touro Law sweatshirt, screaming at the honeys "Back then ya'll didn't want me, now I'm hot now ya'll all on me!!!" or do you have an insatiable burning desire; similar to herpes, to study law?




Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on August 15, 2005, 11:00:36 AM
that's funny..the majority of the members of blsd are going to T14s...

so try again you ass..


for a bunch of future lawyers, you're pretty lame if you can't see that this is clearly flaimbait. Eveyone knows black people don't dream of the "t14" and the way she's playing the race card makes it too damn obvious. good try though.

LOL!!!!

busted!

You clearly have not been paying attention, cat daddy.  We got so many T14 kids on here it doesn't even phase us anymore for somebody to say they got into Harvard.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: ImVinny! on August 15, 2005, 11:03:50 AM
Yikes!  I hope you didn't pay her for this gem of advice.  Anyway, I totally disagree with this.  I would say prep as you originally intended to.  The LSAT is a very learnable test and you could end up with a powerhouse score.  Also, no matter if you have one piece of your app that you think might be strong - don't let any other part of your app be weak.  I mean, aim for everything to be strong (lsat, gpa, lors, resume, essays) and I think you will be in good shape.  I also think that being an Afr. Am. will help your app because that is a sought after URM (whether a school will admit it or not), but again you shouldn't rely on any one thing because addcomms are unpredictable.  I would apply to all the big schools you are interested in, but don't overlook other schools that might work too because you never know who is going to offer you the best aid or give you the best gut feeling when you go and visit.  Hope that helps.

I agree.
Title: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: acceptme on October 10, 2005, 10:27:57 PM
Can someone please advise me on whether or not I have a chance at a T14 with my scores? I'm a black male from UC Davis. I spent a year abroad and co-founded a successful multinational corporation, but I don't know if this will make up for my low scores. I would really appreciate some feedback. Thanks
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 11, 2005, 08:01:11 AM
what is your grade trend?  study abroad unless it was somewhere spectacularly unique will not help you; also just how successful is the corporation? you have an uphill battle but you can improve your chances significantly with excellent personal statements, good LORs.  I would  look to Northwestern, Duke,  and Cornell..
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: chrisfield on October 11, 2005, 08:10:29 AM
Not impossible.  But an uphill battle for sure.  Even with a 10 point addition for AA you are looking at a 168.  Not bad, but still not making you a "gimme" anywhere.  Work hard on your soft factors especially the corporation you founded.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: lsdaccount on October 11, 2005, 08:47:10 AM
You probably have a better shot than you'd think.  If you have a strong application, get it in early and really do a good job putting it together in the most flattering way, you probably have a real shot at T14.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: faith2005 on October 11, 2005, 10:02:12 AM
good luck to you! I say aim high while still putting in apps to safties. You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised!  :)
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on October 11, 2005, 05:04:39 PM
word on the street is apply to Harvard. You'll get in. 
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 11, 2005, 05:59:03 PM
Can someone please advise me on whether or not I have a chance at a T14 with my scores? I'm a black male from UC Davis. I spent a year abroad and co-founded a successful multinational corporation, but I don't know if this will make up for my low scores. I would really appreciate some feedback. Thanks

Yes, if you have an interesting background (which you appear to have) you are not out of the running for T14's with your numbers.  My GPA was somewhat higher and my LSAT a point lower and I managed to get into Boalt with a fairly unaccomplished background.  You ought to get in there and at least a couple other T14's.  Jusy make sure you have a compelling and interesting PS.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 11, 2005, 06:08:58 PM
word on the street is apply to Harvard. You'll get in. 

Sands you are on crack and apparently so is everyone on the street where you live.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: John Galt on October 12, 2005, 08:25:43 AM
Apply to schools 7-14. I know some people at Harvard with a lower LSAT than yours, but a much much higher GPA. I think you'll get into cornell if you apply, Northwestern might gamble on you, and Duke might give you a shot. Without a score of 160 or above, top 14 is pushing it.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: faith2005 on October 12, 2005, 06:55:03 PM
i guess i could just be real...i have similar numbers and i'm a woman and john galt's predictions sound about right to me. i didn't apply to as many schools as other people b/c i was pretty sure of what areas i was interested in living in...but i feel like duke, northwestern, virginia, g-town are all good bets, but not sure shots. good luck!
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: John Galt on October 12, 2005, 08:01:44 PM
Are you at a t14 faith?
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: faith2005 on October 12, 2005, 08:03:44 PM
yeah i am...
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 12, 2005, 08:26:06 PM
i guess i could just be real...i have similar numbers and i'm a woman and john galt's predictions sound about right to me. i didn't apply to as many schools as other people b/c i was pretty sure of what areas i was interested in living in...but i feel like duke, northwestern, virginia, g-town are all good bets, but not sure shots. good luck!

umm from what undergrad and with what postgrad fellowships...not necessarily in similar positions
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: lex19 on October 12, 2005, 08:32:47 PM
damn E, always taking it to em...but keeping it real so that's what's up  ;)
i guess i could just be real...i have similar numbers and i'm a woman and john galt's predictions sound about right to me. i didn't apply to as many schools as other people b/c i was pretty sure of what areas i was interested in living in...but i feel like duke, northwestern, virginia, g-town are all good bets, but not sure shots. good luck!

umm from what undergrad and with what postgrad fellowships...not necessarily in similar positions
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: faith2005 on October 12, 2005, 08:34:36 PM
ok e, i'm sorry, we know each other so try not to call me out  :D ...still apply where you want to go. I think you can do it!  :)
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 12, 2005, 08:39:37 PM
damn E, always taking it to em...but keeping it real so that's what's up  ;)
i guess i could just be real...i have similar numbers and i'm a woman and john galt's predictions sound about right to me. i didn't apply to as many schools as other people b/c i was pretty sure of what areas i was interested in living in...but i feel like duke, northwestern, virginia, g-town are all good bets, but not sure shots. good luck!

umm from what undergrad and with what postgrad fellowships...not necessarily in similar positions

hey lady.

to the OP, I'm not trying to pull a brotha down, but to keep it real with you. :D  work hard on those apps; let us know if we can be of assistance
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: blk_reign on October 14, 2005, 07:23:33 AM

 :D :D :D

ok e, i'm sorry, we know each other so try not to call me out  :D ...still apply where you want to go. I think you can do it!  :)
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: John Galt on October 14, 2005, 05:09:21 PM
Can someone please advise me on whether or not I have a chance at a T14 with my scores? I'm a black male from UC Davis. I spent a year abroad and co-founded a successful multinational corporation, but I don't know if this will make up for my low scores. I would really appreciate some feedback. Thanks

Yes, if you have an interesting background (which you appear to have) you are not out of the running for T14's with your numbers.  My GPA was somewhat higher and my LSAT a point lower and I managed to get into Boalt with a fairly unaccomplished background.  You ought to get in there and at least a couple other T14's.  Jusy make sure you have a compelling and interesting PS.

somewhat higher. No, boalt loves high GPAs. Telling the kid to apply to boalt would be a waste of his money unless his parents were non-college educated black eskimos living on 10 grand a year.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: lex19 on October 14, 2005, 05:49:26 PM
and still pushing it, i doubt even under those circumstances one could get in, you can only ride the urm train so far....or i would have def applied to T14's last year, now i'm not saying the op won't be able to get in necesarily jut that she/he will need some sick soft factors to make it happen
Quote
Telling the kid to apply to boalt would be a waste of his money unless his parents were non-college educated black eskimos living on 10 grand a year.

Eskimos is outdated ans slightly offensive. Inuit is the prefered designation.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: John Galt on October 14, 2005, 11:33:09 PM
Quote
Telling the kid to apply to boalt would be a waste of his money unless his parents were non-college educated black eskimos living on 10 grand a year.

Eskimos is outdated ans slightly offensive. Inuit is the prefered designation.

I don't believe in PC designations. Thanks for the heads up though.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on October 16, 2005, 08:44:47 AM
FYI, I think a 158 is good for a T14.  All I have is anecdotal evidence, but it indicates that 160+ is unnecessary provided you have a good backstory.  That said, the sub-160s I know had higher GPAs (but not 3.8s or 3.9s; more in the 3.6-3.7 range.)
Title: What do you think?
Post by: doris72 on October 21, 2005, 08:54:32 PM
Hey all-

I am a long time reader - first time poster - and I just received my Oct LSAT score earlier this evening - I got a 161 and I graduated from Princeton Univ. with a 3.3.
I know that I have an amazing PS - and great Recs
I have been working for a year + at a NYC law firm and I have had a lot of interesting work experience over the years while at school.
My gpa is low - but I really have no excuse -  I just never really got full swing of the work load - and I don't doubt my abilities to succeed at all - anyway based on your experiences - what do you think my chances are at getting into a t14 law school. I plan to send in my apps by mid next week at the latest.

Thanks in advance for the advice




Title: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: shamarmoore on October 22, 2005, 10:05:13 AM
I am an African-American Male, low gpa from a big state school, not well-regarded, worked 40 hours per week and have an upward trend. I just got my score, and I did well.
 2.5 gpa and 170 LSAT.

 Can I get into any T14's??
 Can I get into any Tier 1 schools?

  If so which ones should I target.

  Thanks alot!!!

 
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: chrisfield on October 22, 2005, 10:08:29 AM
You would be very competetive at Tier 1's.  Less likely at T14's but not impossible.
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: lex19 on October 22, 2005, 10:47:05 AM
def include an addendum with your apps to explain your work situation in school and the upward grade trend, good luck
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: shamarmoore on October 22, 2005, 10:58:43 AM
def include an addendum with your apps to explain your work situation in school and the upward grade trend, good luck

Thanks, I am definetly going to do that, I was working 40-60 hours a week freshmen and sophomore year and then I went down to 25-25 hours and my gpa went up significantly, so hopefully somewhere will like me.
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: lex19 on October 22, 2005, 11:03:01 AM
they will, especially if you can show...a poster last year got into northwestern with a 2.6 and a 171 or something like that (avg from two tests) but he also had tons of work experience, regardless i think your lsat score will and an explanation will put you into the running with T14's maybe not hys but def the rest
def include an addendum with your apps to explain your work situation in school and the upward grade trend, good luck

Thanks, I am definetly going to do that, I was working 40-60 hours a week freshmen and sophomore year and then I went down to 25-25 hours and my gpa went up significantly, so hopefully somewhere will like me.
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 22, 2005, 11:54:43 AM
I am an African-American Male, low gpa from a big state school, not well-regarded, worked 40 hours per week and have an upward trend. I just got my score, and I did well.
 2.5 gpa and 170 LSAT.

 Can I get into any T14's??
 Can I get into any Tier 1 schools?

  If so which ones should I target.

  Thanks alot!!!

 

Try Duke, Northwestern, Cornell, Emory, Washington University.  are you coming straight through?
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 22, 2005, 11:59:39 AM
Hey all-

I am a long time reader - first time poster - and I just received my Oct LSAT score earlier this evening - I got a 161 and I graduated from Princeton Univ. with a 3.3.
I know that I have an amazing PS - and great Recs
I have been working for a year + at a NYC law firm and I have had a lot of interesting work experience over the years while at school.
My gpa is low - but I really have no excuse -  I just never really got full swing of the work load - and I don't doubt my abilities to succeed at all - anyway based on your experiences - what do you think my chances are at getting into a t14 law school. I plan to send in my apps by mid next week at the latest.

Thanks in advance for the advice



shoot out applications to U Penn, Michigan, Virginia (especially if you are a resident of the latter two) you never know you might get lucky; if your statements etc are as excellent as you say then I wouldn't be surprised if you got into Georgetown, Cornell, Duke.  I would say save your money and don't apply to HYSCCN.
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: shamarmoore on October 22, 2005, 12:16:19 PM
Yes I am coming straight through. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: lex19 on October 22, 2005, 12:22:54 PM
i just caught your screen name op, funny.....if you can i would apply to as many schools as possible without losing quality in your apps
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: shamarmoore on October 22, 2005, 12:35:49 PM
Thanks, I am working on the supplementals now, so hopefully, keep your fingers crossed!!
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: seu2002 on October 23, 2005, 09:39:34 AM
listen to E.  this woman's the truth!
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on October 23, 2005, 06:13:53 PM
I don't think I can fully co-sign to that advice. 

I say shoot for everything you can shoot for.  Apply to every school you are interested in going to.  Don't sell yourself short.

The truth of the matter is, we can't tell you what your chances are for getting into T14 schools b/c we're not the admissions committee.  What we CAN tell you is that we have (or have not) seen people on this board with your scores get into certain schools.

I got a 162 on the LSAT and I got into Rutgers, which is traditionally a good school but no where near the T14.  There have been a few cats on this board who scored only 4 points higher than I did who got into Harvard.  You do the math.
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: lex19 on October 23, 2005, 07:21:27 PM
i'm with sands, and you won't have to "what if" come april when you're making decisions, i'd def apply to ccn
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 23, 2005, 07:52:15 PM
actually I'm going to amend my earlier advice and say apply to CCN.  you'd have an outside shot, especially at Chicago. I would still save your money on HYS.
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: faith2005 on October 23, 2005, 10:54:46 PM
well e, can i say that me and the op are similar now? i agree with e's advice, but i want to tell you to apply now...don't wait, b/c i think if you apply to CCN now your chances will increase. I waited until january and i sorta regret it.
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 23, 2005, 10:58:11 PM
well e, can i say that me and the op are similar now? i agree with e's advice, but i want to tell you to apply now...don't wait, b/c i think if you apply to CCN now your chances will increase. I waited until january and i sorta regret it.

sure you can say it, faith, but few people are as amazing  :D
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: faith2005 on October 24, 2005, 10:04:48 AM
aw thats really sweet... :)
Title: Where should I apply?
Post by: Electric2006 on October 24, 2005, 11:50:38 AM

Edit: I deleted my message.  Thanks to those who previously responded.

Best,
Electric
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 24, 2005, 12:15:13 PM

Electric, I know it hurts, but please take the LSAT again; a few points more and you'll have many more doors open to you.
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: A. on October 24, 2005, 01:34:22 PM
Only if the "average" is on tests taken under real testing conditions.  Seemingly everyone does not do as well as their "average," but this is usually because they allow themselves a few seconds here, take a break there, and just generally do a poor job replicating real testing conditions (and tend to get excited about random high scores, thinking that is what they should get on the real thing).  In my experience, and I believe the stats prove this, people who retake score about where they scored on their previous administration.  Therefore, I would not advocate taking the test again unless s/he truly thinks that s/he underperformed.

As it stands, I think the OP has a chance at one of the bottom t14, with the t20 basically a given.
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: Electric2006 on October 24, 2005, 01:55:40 PM
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. 

I feel like I practiced the LSAT under pretty real circumstances: did not give myself extra time, studied in the public library or places with background noise.  And I do honestly feel like I underperformed. 

I am going to take it again in December.  I think I knew I was going to all along, but sometimes hearing it from strangers helps.  I am applying to grad school also, and I am taking the GRE in two weeks, so I just was hoping I wouldn't have to study for them simultaneously.

Cheers,
Electric
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: A. on October 24, 2005, 02:00:18 PM
What explains the 10-pt drop?  Was one section surprisingly difficult?  Do you get test anxiety?  Lots of people work themselves into a tizzy the day of the test, hindering their performance.
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: Nemesis on October 24, 2005, 02:05:16 PM
What explains the 10-pt drop?  Was one section surprisingly difficult?  Do you get test anxiety?  Lots of people work themselves into a tizzy the day of the test, hindering their performance.

Yeah like me.

I  >:( test taking anxiety. Phooey.
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: Electric2006 on October 24, 2005, 02:29:33 PM
I was very nervous when the test started and got off on my timing, it was RC, normally one of my best sections, I got all flustered and had to guess, I normally have extra time.  My second section was also RC, so I got it together and finished it early, and hoped the first was experimental, which it wasn't. 

LR has always been my worst sections, don't know why, if anyone has any tips I am all ears.  I missed twice what I normally do on LR in one section, the last one, no idea what went wrong.  Aced the games as usual. So it was the the anxiousness in RC and something in the LR that killed me.  I left feeling pretty good too, that is why I didn't cancel. 

I know it sounds silly, but I normally do yoga 3-4 times a week, I wasn't practicing at all while I was studying, this time I will.  I also work full time and was studying late at night, and I am not a morning person, so I am going to start getting up to study before work instead.

Again, any tips on LR send them my way.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 24, 2005, 03:36:02 PM
I was very nervous when the test started and got off on my timing, it was RC, normally one of my best sections, I got all flustered and had to guess, I normally have extra time.  My second section was also RC, so I got it together and finished it early, and hoped the first was experimental, which it wasn't. 

LR has always been my worst sections, don't know why, if anyone has any tips I am all ears.  I missed twice what I normally do on LR in one section, the last one, no idea what went wrong.  Aced the games as usual. So it was the the anxiousness in RC and something in the LR that killed me.  I left feeling pretty good too, that is why I didn't cancel. 

I know it sounds silly, but I normally do yoga 3-4 times a week, I wasn't practicing at all while I was studying, this time I will.  I also work full time and was studying late at night, and I am not a morning person, so I am going to start getting up to study before work instead.

Again, any tips on LR send them my way.

Thanks.

check out the logical reasoning bible by powerscore
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: lex19 on October 24, 2005, 07:46:42 PM
def get the logical reasoning bible it does wonders
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: seu2002 on October 25, 2005, 12:56:14 AM
me too.

listen to sands too tho.  he knows whats up.   ;)
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: Muse on October 25, 2005, 07:51:39 PM
My advice is to  apply everywhere you want to go. Have a few "safety" schools. You never know. Good luck!
Title: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: rabika on October 27, 2005, 05:35:55 PM
I have a 154, a 3.4 UGPA and a 3.7 GGPA.

I HAVE to stay in Atlanta because my husband has residency there for another 4 years (getting married in December!).  Of course, I'm Black.  But with a 154.. I don't know if that'll help. 

The only two schools there are Emory and Georgia State.  Do I have any chance at either of them?  Should I even bother applying? 

Any advice or personal experience would be appreciated. 
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 05:42:10 PM
I have a 154, a 3.4 UGPA and a 3.7 GGPA.

I HAVE to stay in Atlanta because my husband has residency there for another 4 years (getting married in December!).  Of course, I'm Black.  But with a 154.. I don't know if that'll help. 

The only two schools there are Emory and Georgia State.  Do I have any chance at either of them?  Should I even bother applying? 

Any advice or personal experience would be appreciated. 

Emory will be a stretch, but not out of the question.  GSU is probably a more realistic option.  Just make sure that your PS is on point and you should have no trouble getting into at least one of those.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: A. on October 27, 2005, 05:43:31 PM
I predict that you will get into both, likely with money.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: rabika on October 27, 2005, 05:44:45 PM
Are you serious?!  That's not funny :(   I'm struggling here!!!
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: silviadc on October 27, 2005, 05:47:41 PM
Go ahead and apply, you never know. 

I would say Emory is a major stretch though.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 05:50:08 PM
I predict that you will get into both, likely with money.

I don't know about GSU, but there is no hope for money at Emory.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: A. on October 27, 2005, 05:58:03 PM
What are Emory's numbers this year?  I don't have my handy U.S. News with me.  But considering the fact that someone with a 3.0/160+ can get into the mid-to-upper T14, I don't consider it a stretch of the imagination to say that someone with a 154 can get into a school traditionally ranked in the mid-to-lower twenties, and possibly with money.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 06:00:06 PM
What are Emory's numbers this year?  I don't have my handy U.S. News with me.  But considering the fact that someone with a 3.0/160+ can get into the mid-to-upper T14, I don't consider it a stretch of the imagination to say that someone with a 154 can get into a school traditionally ranked in the mid-to-lower twenties, and possibly with money.

Getting in is one thing, scholarship is another beast entirely.  The OP should talk to desi desi desi, who is a minority Emory 2L.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: A. on October 27, 2005, 06:03:50 PM
Judging by the moniker, I assume "desi desi desi" is not black.  You cannot compare a black person with someone from the Indian subcontinent.  I think the OP might be a very desirable candidate for Emory.  Perhaps not Woodruff material, but desireable nonetheless.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 06:07:10 PM
Judging by the moniker, I assume "desi desi desi" is not black.  You cannot compare a black person with someone from the Indian subcontinent.  I think the OP might be a very desirable candidate for Emory.  Perhaps not Woodruff material, but desireable nonetheless.

So only black people add to diversity?  C'mon, I know you aren't THAT ignorant. 

As someone who has lived in the South, I know that there are far more African-Americans than Indians in Georgia, and I would think that due to that dynamic, attracting an Indian candidate (still a person of color) would be just as desireable.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: A. on October 27, 2005, 06:19:58 PM
Having spent numerous occasions at Emory, I know that the school has no trouble attracting Indians.  There are plenty of qualified Indians in the Atlanta area alone (tons in the undergraduate divisions).  An Indian candidate is not nearly as attractive as a black one, and if you think that one is, then you are the ignorant one.

Moreover, you make a fatal leap of logic: The number of blacks in Georgia is completely irrelevant when discussing Emory.  Not only does Emory draw primarily from outside of GA, but this is even moreso the case with regard to blacks.  If you think that just because an area has a lot of blacks that the school has a large pool from which to draw, you are sadly mistaken.  Take YLS as an example.  Plenty of blacks in New Haven, very few at Yale.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: blk_reign on October 27, 2005, 06:24:24 PM
amen Alci.. 9 out of 10 the African Americans that you stumble across in ATL attend universities in the AUC..
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 06:26:25 PM
Having spent numerous occasions at Emory, I know that the school has no trouble attracting Indians.  There are plenty of qualified Indians in the Atlanta area alone (tons in the undergraduate divisions).  An Indian candidate is not nearly as attractive as a black one, and if you think that one is, then you are the ignorant one.

Moreover, you make a fatal leap of logic: The number of blacks in Georgia is completely irrelevant when discussing Emory.  Not only does Emory draw primarily from outside of GA, but this is even moreso the case with regard to blacks.  If you think that just because an area has a lot of blacks that the school has a large pool from which to draw, you are sadly mistaken.  Take YLS as an example.  Plenty of blacks in New Haven, very few at Yale.

Any comparison of Emory and YLS is faulty as YLS is a far superior and more selective school, which has its first pick of every kind of diverse student possible.

I am not going to argue with you, but I still think the OP should talk to desi.  The fact that he isn't Black doesn't make him an unreliable source of information.  
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: lex19 on October 27, 2005, 06:26:54 PM
to the OP, my numbers are similar and i was accepted to a school ranked higher than Emory (by ten points) with 10k/year. it can def be done, pm me if you have any questions and good luck

how bout that, never say never kids  :P

(smh, why am i applying again ???)
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: blk_reign on October 27, 2005, 06:33:04 PM
 :D at the last statement.. but u have a point.. u never know what can happen unless you try.. one thing is for certain..

if u don't apply.. you won't get in...

to the OP, my numbers are similar and i was accepted to a school ranked higher than Emory (by ten points) with 10k/year. it can def be done, pm me if you have any questions and good luck

how bout that, never say never kids  :P

(smh, why am i applying again ???)
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: A. on October 27, 2005, 06:36:16 PM
Having spent numerous occasions at Emory, I know that the school has no trouble attracting Indians.  There are plenty of qualified Indians in the Atlanta area alone (tons in the undergraduate divisions).  An Indian candidate is not nearly as attractive as a black one, and if you think that one is, then you are the ignorant one.

Moreover, you make a fatal leap of logic: The number of blacks in Georgia is completely irrelevant when discussing Emory.  Not only does Emory draw primarily from outside of GA, but this is even moreso the case with regard to blacks.  If you think that just because an area has a lot of blacks that the school has a large pool from which to draw, you are sadly mistaken.  Take YLS as an example.  Plenty of blacks in New Haven, very few at Yale.

Any comparison of Emory and YLS is faulty as YLS is a far superior and more selective school, which has its first pick of every kind of diverse student possible.

 ::) OK.  Breaking it down:  I did not compare Emory with YLS in terms of prestige and selectivity.  I merely used YLS as an example to refute your argument that a school located in an area with a large number of blacks, because it is located in that area, values black candidates less because they add little to the diversity of the school. That is patently false.

Quote
I am not going to argue with you, but I still think the OP should talk to desi.  The fact that he isn't Black doesn't make him an unreliable source of information. 

I agree.  Talk to desi.  And I am also through arguing with you.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: blk_reign on October 27, 2005, 06:38:53 PM
you know Alci.. I have to say I had no problems seeing the correlation that you were making between the demographic in New Haven along with the black enrollment @ Yale in comparison to the demographic in ATL and the black enrollment in Emory...

what about you lex?

Having spent numerous occasions at Emory, I know that the school has no trouble attracting Indians.  There are plenty of qualified Indians in the Atlanta area alone (tons in the undergraduate divisions).  An Indian candidate is not nearly as attractive as a black one, and if you think that one is, then you are the ignorant one.

Moreover, you make a fatal leap of logic: The number of blacks in Georgia is completely irrelevant when discussing Emory.  Not only does Emory draw primarily from outside of GA, but this is even moreso the case with regard to blacks.  If you think that just because an area has a lot of blacks that the school has a large pool from which to draw, you are sadly mistaken.  Take YLS as an example.  Plenty of blacks in New Haven, very few at Yale.

Any comparison of Emory and YLS is faulty as YLS is a far superior and more selective school, which has its first pick of every kind of diverse student possible.

 ::) OK.  Breaking it down:  I did not compare Emory with YLS in terms of prestige and selectivity.  I merely used YLS as an example to refute your argument that a school located in an area with a large number of blacks values black candidates less because they add little to the diversity of the school. That is patently false.

Quote
I am not going to argue with you, but I still think the OP should talk to desi.  The fact that he isn't Black doesn't make him an unreliable source of information. 

I agree.  Talk to desi.  And I am also through arguing with you.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: lex19 on October 27, 2005, 06:39:13 PM
lol, very true  :D

if u don't apply.. you won't get in...

to the OP, my numbers are similar and i was accepted to a school ranked higher than Emory (by ten points) with 10k/year. it can def be done, pm me if you have any questions and good luck

how bout that, never say never kids  :P

(smh, why am i applying again ???)
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: rabika on October 27, 2005, 06:46:29 PM
thank you all for your insight.  it really helps.  I guess a point I should clarify is that I scored an unfortunate 144 and 148 in 2003... i just took it again this past october and got the 154.  Given all that... I think that changes the picture a bit.  I'd love to go to Emory, but, I don't know...
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: desi desi desi on October 27, 2005, 06:51:48 PM
op, i can only encourage you to apply.  however, in view of you average LSATS, I do not know how competitive your application will be.  definitely drop your application, but I can't speculate.  the median LSAT i think for my class was a 164.  you have an outstanding GPA though. 

is the commute to Athens reasonable from your part of town?
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: lex19 on October 27, 2005, 06:53:00 PM
no comment, lol
you know Alci.. I have to say I had no problems seeing the correlation that you were making between the demographic in New Haven along with the black enrollment @ Yale in comparison to the demographic in ATL and the black enrollment in Emory...

what about you lex?

Having spent numerous occasions at Emory, I know that the school has no trouble attracting Indians.  There are plenty of qualified Indians in the Atlanta area alone (tons in the undergraduate divisions).  An Indian candidate is not nearly as attractive as a black one, and if you think that one is, then you are the ignorant one.

Moreover, you make a fatal leap of logic: The number of blacks in Georgia is completely irrelevant when discussing Emory.  Not only does Emory draw primarily from outside of GA, but this is even moreso the case with regard to blacks.  If you think that just because an area has a lot of blacks that the school has a large pool from which to draw, you are sadly mistaken.  Take YLS as an example.  Plenty of blacks in New Haven, very few at Yale.

Any comparison of Emory and YLS is faulty as YLS is a far superior and more selective school, which has its first pick of every kind of diverse student possible.

 ::) OK.  Breaking it down:  I did not compare Emory with YLS in terms of prestige and selectivity.  I merely used YLS as an example to refute your argument that a school located in an area with a large number of blacks values black candidates less because they add little to the diversity of the school. That is patently false.

Quote
I am not going to argue with you, but I still think the OP should talk to desi.  The fact that he isn't Black doesn't make him an unreliable source of information. 

I agree.  Talk to desi.  And I am also through arguing with you.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 06:53:53 PM
Are you applying to UGA as well?
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: lex19 on October 27, 2005, 06:56:47 PM
50 bucks says the OP gets accepted to Emory if not by regular admit then by waitlist, who's in???
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: rabika on October 27, 2005, 07:03:18 PM
Are you applying to UGA as well?

I'm not sure.  Where is Athens in relation to Atlanta?  I'll ask my fiance as well.

Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 07:18:53 PM
50 bucks says the OP gets accepted to Emory if not by regular admit then by waitlist, who's in???

i don't think anyone here doubts that the OP has a good chance of getting in.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: lex19 on October 27, 2005, 07:22:25 PM
your words, i'm 100% confident not that you aren't either at least now you aren't

edit: it's all in the tone of your post


[quote author=Ruskie link=topic=45050.msg806677#msg806677
Emory will be a stretch, but not out of the question.  GSU is probably a more realistic option.  Just make sure that your PS is on point and you should have no trouble getting into at least one of those.  Good luck!
[/quote]
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: desi desi desi on October 27, 2005, 08:18:40 PM
50 bucks says the OP gets accepted to Emory if not by regular admit then by waitlist, who's in???

i don't think anyone here doubts that the OP has a good chance of getting in.

I do have doubts that the OP has a good chance of getting.  OP's LSAT average is below 150, and I doubt that this, combined with her GPA, will be competitive for Emory.  Of course, she should still apply.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 09:20:22 PM
your words, i'm 100% confident not that you aren't either at least now you aren't

edit: it's all in the tone of your post


Quote from: Ruskie link=topic=45050.msg806677#msg806677
Emory will be a stretch, but not out of the question.  GSU is probably a more realistic option.  [glow=red,2,300
Just make sure that your PS is on point and you should have no trouble getting into at least one of those.[/glow]  Good luck!

please see above.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: lex19 on October 27, 2005, 10:15:48 PM
oops my bad, i meant before you weren't 100% in backing the OP, there was a lot of doubt in the tone of your post, no need to see above
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Lawprofessor on October 27, 2005, 10:27:58 PM
I scored a 119 on the LSAT and have a .345 GPA, do I have any chance of getting into a T14 school?

Here is a question, why do they cut the big schools off at the T14 instead of something round like the T15 or T20?
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 10:29:20 PM
I scored a 119 on the LSAT and have a .345 GPA, do I have any chance of getting into a T14 school?

Here is a question, why do they cut the big schools off at the T14 instead of something round like the T15 or T20?

because the same 14 schools have occupied the top 14 slots in varying order since the us news started ranking law schools.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Lawprofessor on October 27, 2005, 10:34:27 PM
Yeah, I can dig that, but does that really matter?  I mean, if the impressive feature was getting into the top 15, does it really matter who is actually occupying those spots?  I mean, the order of the T14 changes so why stop there? 
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 10:39:47 PM
Yeah, I can dig that, but does that really matter?  I mean, if the impressive feature was getting into the top 15, does it really matter who is actually occupying those spots?  I mean, the order of the T14 changes so why stop there? 

i dunno.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Lawprofessor on October 27, 2005, 10:52:52 PM
sorry to be so strange and confusing. :)
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 27, 2005, 10:55:04 PM
sorry to be so strange and confusing. :)

it's okay.  i still love you, dirty old man. :-*
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Lawprofessor on October 27, 2005, 11:01:58 PM
Shhhhh, I thought that was our dirty little secret. ;)
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: rabika on October 27, 2005, 11:55:16 PM
Okay, so i think the consensus is that i should apply everywhere but Emory is (according to the majority) a long shot.  Which makes me question why UGA isn't as well... its only ranked 4 lower than Emory?  These things don't quite make sense to me. 

Thank you guys for you advice!!
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Lawprofessor on October 28, 2005, 12:02:14 AM
Look, apply to anywhere you are interested in going.  You might get in and you might not. No one on here is on an admissisions committee (except for one person) so no one on here has any idea exactly what the schools are looking for and even if they had an general idea, they dont have the specific idea as they are not on the admissions committee at any of the schools you are going to apply to in the near future. 
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: desi desi desi on October 28, 2005, 12:36:16 AM
Okay, so i think the consensus is that i should apply everywhere but Emory is (according to the majority) a long shot.  Which makes me question why UGA isn't as well... its only ranked 4 lower than Emory?  These things don't quite make sense to me. 

Thank you guys for you advice!!

you should apply to emory.  it might be a "reach" school rather than a target school.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 28, 2005, 01:05:18 AM
Okay, so i think the consensus is that i should apply everywhere but Emory is (according to the majority) a long shot.  Which makes me question why UGA isn't as well... its only ranked 4 lower than Emory?  These things don't quite make sense to me. 

Thank you guys for you advice!!

you should apply to emory.  it might be a "reach" school rather than a target school.
i thought you were going to bed! :D
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: A. on October 28, 2005, 07:37:54 AM
Yeah, I can dig that, but does that really matter?  I mean, if the impressive feature was getting into the top 15, does it really matter who is actually occupying those spots?  I mean, the order of the T14 changes so why stop there? 

The t14 are considered "national" schools.  Although I think Boalt is just as regional as #15 Texas.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 28, 2005, 10:37:14 AM
Yeah, I can dig that, but does that really matter?  I mean, if the impressive feature was getting into the top 15, does it really matter who is actually occupying those spots?  I mean, the order of the T14 changes so why stop there? 

The t14 are considered "national" schools.  Although I think Boalt is just as regional as #15 Texas.


Boalt tends to be more regional thatn some other T14's, but it's more by choice.  Last year, very few students doing OCI wanted to interview with NYC, DC and Boston firms, and many of those firms had half-empty schedules, because students really wanted to stay in the Bay Area.  That was not so much the case this year and every student I know who wanted a job on the east coast got 5+ offers.

I know that people were certainly impressed with Boalt at my interviews and callbacks. 

Texas is regional because it has no choice.  You can't take a Texas degree to NYC and expect to get hired at top firms.

All this Boalt basshing is really more a product of the wierd subculture of internet chat boards like xoxo than anything grounded in reality.  Boalt is still very much a top ten school among practitioners and still gets people jobs at the most prestigious firms anywhere in the country.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Lawprofessor on October 28, 2005, 01:07:07 PM
Yeah, I can dig that, but does that really matter?  I mean, if the impressive feature was getting into the top 15, does it really matter who is actually occupying those spots?  I mean, the order of the T14 changes so why stop there? 

The t14 are considered "national" schools.  Although I think Boalt is just as regional as #15 Texas.

But my question is which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Are the T14 schools considered national schools because they are in the T14 or are they in the T14 because they are national schools.  I would make the arguement that a school like GW is not as nearly much a regional school as some of the schools ahead of it in the rankings. 
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 28, 2005, 01:15:27 PM
Yeah, I can dig that, but does that really matter?  I mean, if the impressive feature was getting into the top 15, does it really matter who is actually occupying those spots?  I mean, the order of the T14 changes so why stop there? 

The t14 are considered "national" schools.  Although I think Boalt is just as regional as #15 Texas.

But my question is which came first, the chicken or the egg?  Are the T14 schools considered national schools because they are in the T14 or are they in the T14 because they are national schools.  I would make the arguement that a school like GW is not as nearly much a regional school as some of the schools ahead of it in the rankings. 

They are national in that a T14 degree holder will not have trouble finding work anywhere in the country.  However, there are schools within the T14 that attract students who usually prefer to stay in the area where the school is located, so the placement stats make it look like less of a national school. 

A GW degree will not, all other things being equal, offer the same national mobility as a Penn or UVA degree, although GW is still a very respectable school.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Lawprofessor on October 28, 2005, 01:43:04 PM
I understand that a T14 degree will allow the holder to go throughout the country and their degree carries weight.  But I would go as far as to say that they wont have trouble finding work anywhere in the country.  But, I wouldnt compare a GW degree to a UPenn or UVA degree, but how about Boalt or GT?  I dont think that the GT degree carries much more weight than a GW degree.  Yet the argument is that GT is a national school while GW is a regional school?  I do agree with you 100% that some T14 schools attract some students that prefer to stay in the area where the school is located and therefore that school looks like less of a national school.  My opinion is that is why Texas is more of a regional school than they really could be.  Most of the people who attend Texas I think want to work in Texas.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on October 28, 2005, 02:26:55 PM
I understand that a T14 degree will allow the holder to go throughout the country and their degree carries weight.  But I would go as far as to say that they wont have trouble finding work anywhere in the country.  But, I wouldnt compare a GW degree to a UPenn or UVA degree, but how about Boalt or GT?  I dont think that the GT degree carries much more weight than a GW degree.  Yet the argument is that GT is a national school while GW is a regional school?  I do agree with you 100% that some T14 schools attract some students that prefer to stay in the area where the school is located and therefore that school looks like less of a national school.  My opinion is that is why Texas is more of a regional school than they really could be.  Most of the people who attend Texas I think want to work in Texas.

Boalt and GT have more national pull than GW, hands down.

Texas could have more pull in the south, but I doubt it would be a degree that would be respected in DC and NYC.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Lawprofessor on October 28, 2005, 04:20:16 PM
I understand that a T14 degree will allow the holder to go throughout the country and their degree carries weight.  But I would go as far as to say that they wont have trouble finding work anywhere in the country.  But, I wouldnt compare a GW degree to a UPenn or UVA degree, but how about Boalt or GT?  I dont think that the GT degree carries much more weight than a GW degree.  Yet the argument is that GT is a national school while GW is a regional school?  I do agree with you 100% that some T14 schools attract some students that prefer to stay in the area where the school is located and therefore that school looks like less of a national school.  My opinion is that is why Texas is more of a regional school than they really could be.  Most of the people who attend Texas I think want to work in Texas.

Boalt and GT have more national pull than GW, hands down.

Texas could have more pull in the south, but I doubt it would be a degree that would be respected in DC and NYC.

I agree they have more national pull, but I dont agree with hands down.  I think it is closer than you realize. 

I think Texas could have more pull everywhere if they took in more people who wanted to practice outside of Texas.  I think the Texas degree is respected in DC and NYC, not as much as the schools ranked above them, but to say that they would not be respected in DC or NYC I think is ranked 15th in the nation.
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on October 30, 2005, 12:48:20 AM
OP, with 154 you were looking great for Emory and possibly even getting some money.  The other LSAT scores will negatively affect your money and maybe even admissions chances at Emory, since it averages to sub-150.  That said, I definitely think you should go for it so my 1.5 cents are irrelevant.  Best of luck!  Know that we're behind you! :)
Title: Re: Georgia Schools? Any chance...
Post by: One Step Ahead on October 30, 2005, 10:48:25 AM
can you wait a couple years so the 148 etc are off your record?  just a thought
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: Slow Blues on November 03, 2005, 12:42:21 PM
I'd say you definitely have a fighting chance. T14s may be out of the question, but Tier 1 definitely. If not, a couple years' good work experience would be really helpful.
Title: Re: Where should I apply?
Post by: Slow Blues on November 03, 2005, 01:00:39 PM
What explains the 10-pt drop?  Was one section surprisingly difficult?  Do you get test anxiety?  Lots of people work themselves into a tizzy the day of the test, hindering their performance.

I feel like a good rule of thumb is to deduct 5-7 pts. from your practice score. I was testing at 170-172 consistently in real-life conditions and ended up with a 165. My friends fared similarly.

I've heard good things about the LR Bible.

Would you consider taking an LSAT class?
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: chrisfield on November 03, 2005, 04:08:56 PM
FYI, I think a 158 is good for a T14.  All I have is anecdotal evidence, but it indicates that 160+ is unnecessary provided you have a good backstory.  That said, the sub-160s I know had higher GPAs (but not 3.8s or 3.9s; more in the 3.6-3.7 range.)

are you being serious?
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on November 04, 2005, 06:34:56 PM
Heres the Deal. I got a 157 LSAT and a 3.88 GPA 4 yours military black male so we are pretty similar. The schools I hit were

Reaches
Columbia
Harvard
Yale


Possibilities
Cornell
Northwestern
George Washington
Georgetown
Virginia
NYU

Reasonable
W&M
W&L
BU
American
George Mason

Safties
Howard
Baltimore
Catholic

If I were you Cornell and Northwestern should the top schools you should be gunning for. Honestly I consider Georgetown a reach for me, its good to be optimistic but it pays to be realistic.  INTERVIEW AT NORTHWESTERN!! Give them as many reasons to take you as possible.It's cool to reach man but you should always apply to schools where you would have a good shot at if you WERE NOT A URM. That is what I would definie as a safety. Applying to top 14's is great but if you are serious about law school you are going to have some safties on there.  I haven't heard anything back yet but when I do I will keep you updated.
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on November 04, 2005, 06:38:52 PM
I don't think to many schools are out of your reach man. Sure it was a 3.3 but it was a 3.3 at PRINCETON. what was your major that may help you? Good luck man
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: doris72 on November 04, 2005, 09:20:01 PM
hehe - from the last post - it seems as if you all think that i am a male - nope - black female.

anyway - thank you - i have sent out several apps  - i really hope that i get into nyu - i hope to stay in the city but we will see...

and fyi - the firm that i work for is one of the more liberal firms in nyc -accepting of gays, blacks, etc - can i tell you that there are only 13 black associates in a firm of over 200
i am the only black paralegal - essentially on the track to pursuing a law degree - you all - the reality is bleak - its few and far between - this board is anomolous with all the urm support - its crazy when you actually see how few black lawyers there are.

and what else is really funny is that when there are minority pro bono cases - the teams are comprisesd solely of minority attorneys  --
Title: Re: What do you think?
Post by: lex19 on November 04, 2005, 09:35:04 PM
yeah i don't know too many guys named doris (if that is your real name) or that would go by doris or chose doris as screen name of any type, well unless they were....you guys see where i'm going with this, and good luck D!
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on November 06, 2005, 11:00:49 AM
FYI, I think a 158 is good for a T14.  All I have is anecdotal evidence, but it indicates that 160+ is unnecessary provided you have a good backstory.  That said, the sub-160s I know had higher GPAs (but not 3.8s or 3.9s; more in the 3.6-3.7 range.)

are you being serious?

Yes.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: lex19 on November 06, 2005, 01:53:17 PM
saxby where is that in montauk, i read it a while ago but don't remember seeing anything about urm's & lsat scores, thanks in advance
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: JGB on November 06, 2005, 02:09:51 PM
If someone has a 3.32 and a 158, this is showing an average academic ability, correct? However, the URM thing gives them extra points on the scores?(Still do not get that).

My point is, the schools that you are discussing are the highest ranking schools within the world of law schools. They gained the prestige through admitting higher level applicants as well as forcing their students to endure a rigorous 3 years of higher than normal course work.

Has anyone ever considered that if average scores from average course work would be a major disadvantage to getting into a top school? Could you possibly be mentally prepared to keep up with the elite?

I am not saying you won't get in, I hope you do. This post just seemed like a good place to bring up the question.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: A. on November 06, 2005, 02:27:17 PM
They gained the prestige through admitting higher level applicants as well as forcing their students to endure a rigorous 3 years of higher than normal course work.

That's just false.  Perhaps the elite schools expect its students to reason on a level higher than those at non-elite schools, but the coursework is basically the same.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: FossilJ on November 06, 2005, 02:47:20 PM
They gained the prestige through admitting higher level applicants as well as forcing their students to endure a rigorous 3 years of higher than normal course work.

That's just false.  Perhaps the elite schools expect its students to reason on a level higher than those at non-elite schools, but the coursework is basically the same.

Thanks.  This point is crucial.
Title: Re: 2.5 and 170 - Any Tier One's?
Post by: seu2002 on November 06, 2005, 04:02:11 PM
i think it is true that boalt has a trend of admitting applicants that show a big disparity between their GPA and LSAT scores:  low GPA and high LSAT or high GPA and low LSAT.  you should try boalt.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: lex19 on November 06, 2005, 06:02:21 PM
i'm getting it now to see if i can find it, i've heard that before but it still sounds kinda crazy
saxby where is that in montauk, i read it a while ago but don't remember seeing anything about urm's & lsat scores, thanks in advance

I'm not sure specifically, because I don't have the book anymore (checked it out from the library).  If you look in the back, in the index, you should be able to find it easily.  His estimate was 7-10 points for black applicants, 4-5 for Hispanics (I think) and Native Americans were highest, if I remember correctly. 
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: John Galt on November 06, 2005, 06:02:32 PM



yes, look up affirmative action in the index. It'll tell you the page number. I haven't read it in a while, but I think it might be page 57.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: John Galt on November 06, 2005, 06:04:47 PM
i'm getting it now to see if i can find it, i've heard that before but it still sounds kinda crazy
saxby where is that in montauk, i read it a while ago but don't remember seeing anything about urm's & lsat scores, thanks in advance

I'm not sure specifically, because I don't have the book anymore (checked it out from the library).  If you look in the back, in the index, you should be able to find it easily.  His estimate was 7-10 points for black applicants, 4-5 for Hispanics (I think) and Native Americans were highest, if I remember correctly. 

Montauk doesn't claim it is conclusive. Schools like Y are likely to give a 10 point boost...a school like Cornell or Northwestern is.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 06, 2005, 06:06:45 PM
i'm getting it now to see if i can find it, i've heard that before but it still sounds kinda crazy
saxby where is that in montauk, i read it a while ago but don't remember seeing anything about urm's & lsat scores, thanks in advance

I'm not sure specifically, because I don't have the book anymore (checked it out from the library).  If you look in the back, in the index, you should be able to find it easily.  His estimate was 7-10 points for black applicants, 4-5 for Hispanics (I think) and Native Americans were highest, if I remember correctly. 

why?
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: lex19 on November 06, 2005, 06:13:31 PM
yeah it doesn't say that (looking at it right now)......but it does say, "the avg scores of minority admittees tend to be below the overall avgs. As a rough rule of thumb, blacks avg 7-10 points below, hispanics 2-4 points below, and american indians 10+ points below" it doesn't say anything about adcomms adding a certain amt of points to a urm's lsat.....and it's crazy b/c adding 10 points due to one's racial/ethnic background is f-ing nuts...the two have nothing to do with one's circumstances in life which (in my eyes) should be the determining factor in urm status
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: JGB on November 06, 2005, 06:15:10 PM
Are you saying that getting an A at Texas Tech is the same as getting an A at Harvard?

How about this. Do you know anyone that had less than a 3.5 GPA as well as less than 160 on the LSAT that is in a t14 school and is doing well?
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 06, 2005, 06:15:31 PM
Yale Law does not practice affirmative action in admissions and hiring
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: lex19 on November 06, 2005, 06:25:48 PM
if the point increase is true then yeah one should def prove that they've been at a disadvantadge, overcome a hardship....and i still believe that urm's who get into top schools with below avg lsat score have crazy a$$ soft factors that put them over, there are a few on the board who are prime examples...that said i also believe that the majority of urm's who have lsat scores below a given school's avg are only going to apply if they do indeed have soft factors that are out of this world

   
Not to dredge it up again, but that's sort of why I believe that a required diversity statement for everyone would be a valuable element in a total application.  
 
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: lex19 on November 06, 2005, 06:31:49 PM
that's what i was getting at too, good deal saxby
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 06, 2005, 06:36:03 PM
Yale Law does not practice affirmative action in admissions and hiring

Allegedly, neither do CA schools.  Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just think it's a complete misrepresentation on the part of the school to say they do not practice AA.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 06, 2005, 06:39:27 PM
It certainly wouldn't be the only misrepresentation.

"There is no cutoff for admissions" is far worse. 

true.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 06, 2005, 06:45:51 PM
Yale Law does not practice affirmative action in admissions and hiring

Allegedly, neither do CA schools.  Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just think it's a complete misrepresentation on the part of the school to say they do not practice AA.

right thats why we see so many people of color who are tenured faculty at YLS...all that misrepresentation
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 06, 2005, 06:47:44 PM
Yale Law does not practice affirmative action in admissions and hiring

Allegedly, neither do CA schools.  Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just think it's a complete misrepresentation on the part of the school to say they do not practice AA.

right thats why we see so many people of color who are tenured faculty at YLS...all that misrepresentation

hey, we have the same problem.  but so does every school, even those that openly admit to having an aggressive AA program.  there are other factors at play.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 06, 2005, 06:51:03 PM
Yale Law does not practice affirmative action in admissions and hiring

Allegedly, neither do CA schools.  Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just think it's a complete misrepresentation on the part of the school to say they do not practice AA.

right thats why we see so many people of color who are tenured faculty at YLS...all that misrepresentation

Are you saying that Yale purposely does not hire qualified minority faculty?

Why would you go there if that was the case?

I'm saying the law and econ people run Yale Law school. 
I'm here to buck the system.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: A. on November 06, 2005, 06:54:27 PM
Are you saying that getting an A at Texas Tech is the same as getting an A at Harvard?

No, I said that elite schools might require a higher level of reasoning.  So getting an A at Harvard might not be the same as getting an A at Texas.  However, this is not due to the coursework, but to the reasoning applied to the courework.

Quote
How about this. Do you know anyone that had less than a 3.5 GPA as well as less than 160 on the LSAT that is in a t14 school and is doing well?

I don't go around asking people their numbers.  I personally know of no such person.  I would be delighted to hear of the experiences of the person on which you are basing your propositions, however.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: A. on November 06, 2005, 06:56:27 PM
Yale does not intentionally not hire minority faculty...they just don't intentionally hire any either.  Yale practices no affirmative action in its hiring policies.  I think that's the point E was trying to make.  Lol, and I don't think law and econ people run the school...they just try to.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 06, 2005, 06:58:08 PM
Yale does not intentionally not hire minority faculty...they just don't intentionally hire any either.  Yale practices no affirmative action in its hiring policies.  I think that's the point E was trying to make.  Lol, and I don't think law and econ people run the school...they just try to.

the law and  econ people vote in block.  they run the school.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: ZinnMaster on November 06, 2005, 06:59:21 PM
Hello,

  I am a white male, but I have the same question as the original poster. I have a 159 LSAT and a 3.3 GPA with a significant upward trend. I feel like I have a very good PS and have had a lot of interesting experiences, in my mind, such as some unique and substantial public interest work in remote villages throughout Africa, Ireland and the United States.

I have applied to most of the schools that I plan on applying to, however, I wanted to apply to a couple "reach" schools to finish off my list. So I guess my question is, what is the hightest ranked school that you think I have an actual chance of getting into?

Thanks for any information you can provide, and good luck to all on your apps!
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: A. on November 06, 2005, 07:01:43 PM
Yale does not intentionally not hire minority faculty...they just don't intentionally hire any either.  Yale practices no affirmative action in its hiring policies.  I think that's the point E was trying to make.  Lol, and I don't think law and econ people run the school...they just try to.

the law and  econ people vote in block.  they run the school.

If you say so.  I think we have the same source, and that's not exactly what she said.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: ZinnMaster on November 06, 2005, 07:01:58 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, Boalt sounds like just the school for me. A stretch, but hey stranger things have happened.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: John Galt on November 06, 2005, 07:03:16 PM
Hello,

  I am a white male, but I have the same question as the original poster. I have a 159 LSAT and a 3.3 GPA with a significant upward trend. I feel like I have a very good PS and have had a lot of interesting experiences, in my mind, such as some unique and substantial public interest work in remote villages throughout Africa, Ireland and the United States.

I have applied to most of the schools that I plan on applying to, however, I wanted to apply to a couple "reach" schools to finish off my list. So I guess my question is, what is the hightest ranked school that you think I have an actual chance of getting into?

Thanks for any information you can provide, and good luck to all on your apps!

Apply to Gtown Part-time, Cornell, and emory
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 06, 2005, 07:26:45 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, Boalt sounds like just the school for me. A stretch, but hey stranger things have happened.

it's gonna be a reach on gpa, so you have to make sure that your PS is FLAWLESS!

let me know if you have specific questions about the school.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: John Galt on November 06, 2005, 07:38:09 PM
Hello,

  I am a white male, but I have the same question as the original poster. I have a 159 LSAT and a 3.3 GPA with a significant upward trend. I feel like I have a very good PS and have had a lot of interesting experiences, in my mind, such as some unique and substantial public interest work in remote villages throughout Africa, Ireland and the United States.

I have applied to most of the schools that I plan on applying to, however, I wanted to apply to a couple "reach" schools to finish off my list. So I guess my question is, what is the hightest ranked school that you think I have an actual chance of getting into?

Thanks for any information you can provide, and good luck to all on your apps!

Apply to Gtown Part-time, Cornell, and emory

I haven't really run into any low numbers Cornell acceptances, although there have been a few from UM and Boalt.  Although, they could just be full of darn. 

You're right...I just think that Cornell must have a tough time with their yield and may be more inclined to accept a candidate with exceptional soft factors that wants to live in Ithaca with lower than normal numbers. But you're absolutely right, Cornell doesn't appear to be lenient with the numbers judging from LSN.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: ZinnMaster on November 06, 2005, 08:21:04 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm going to apply to Boalt, but of course the application list is forever changing.

Thanks again for the opinions.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 06, 2005, 08:23:29 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm going to apply to Boalt, but of course the application list is forever changing.

Thanks again for the opinions.

if you come from a lower socio-economic background, be sure to fill out the optional survey.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: ZinnMaster on November 06, 2005, 08:29:14 PM
Thanks, I will. I think my personal statement is in good shape, though I am paranoid of making some simple grammar error. My GPA from my degree granting school is a much more respectable 3.6, I wish I could take away the first year (before I transferred) but hey, I’ve got nobody but myself to blame. How do you like California? I looked at a couple schools in CA, but being from, and loving, the Northeast I am curious as to how I would like California. 
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 06, 2005, 08:34:32 PM
Thanks, I will. I think my personal statement is in good shape, though I am paranoid of making some simple grammar error. My GPA from my degree granting school is a much more respectable 3.6, I wish I could take away the first year (before I transferred) but hey, I’ve got nobody but myself to blame. How do you like California? I looked at a couple schools in CA, but being from, and loving, the Northeast I am curious as to how I would like California. 

It might be worthwhile to include an addendum to explain the upward trend, assuming you have a reason besides just being a freshman and f-ing around a whole lot.  If the themes are compatible, you might include it in your PS.

California is cool.  Most people who come from the Northeast really love it.  I am spoiled by Tennessee and Florida, so I find the weather (which features lots of fog and rain) to be intolerable.  The mitigating factor is that it doesn't snow and for those that cannot handle it, it never really gets that hot.

The school is nothing short of amazing.  Boalt Hall puts together some incredible classes.  I learn as much from my colleagues as I do from my profs. 

If you have a chance, you should definitely come out to visit.

BTW, what's your 3.6 in?  If it's a science major, you should be just fine.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: hallelujah on November 06, 2005, 08:47:33 PM
Ruskie -- I'm also crossing my fingers for Berkeley (3.9, 164). W/R/T the socioeconomic questionnaire, I come from an upper-middle class background but with a couple of nominal details that might differentiate me from some fellow upper-middle class applicants (raised by a single parent, step-families, a couple close friends who dropped out of HS). Do you think I'm better off submitting or avoiding the questionnaire? 
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 06, 2005, 08:50:10 PM
Ruskie -- I'm also crossing my fingers for Berkeley (3.9, 164). W/R/T the socioeconomic questionnaire, I come from an upper-middle class background but with a couple of nominal details that might differentiate me from some fellow upper-middle class applicants (raised by a single parent, step-families, a couple close friends who dropped out of HS). Do you think I'm better off submitting or avoiding the questionnaire? 

I would submit it.  I don't think it would hurt you.  I had a similar background.  Since coming to the US, I lived very comfortably (uppher middle, lower upper class), but while I lived in Russia, I knew nothing short of poverty.  I went to a public high school, parents are divorced, have step parents and most of my HS friends didn't go to college. 
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 06, 2005, 09:43:31 PM
Yale does not intentionally not hire minority faculty...they just don't intentionally hire any either.  Yale practices no affirmative action in its hiring policies.  I think that's the point E was trying to make.  Lol, and I don't think law and econ people run the school...they just try to.

the law and  econ people vote in block.  they run the school.

If you say so.  I think we have the same source, and that's not exactly what she said.

I have another source
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: A. on November 07, 2005, 03:38:17 AM
Lol.  I defer to your sources, then.  YLS is run by the law and econ block.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 07, 2005, 10:01:03 AM
Lol.  I defer to your sources, then.  YLS is run by the law and econ block.

why were you awake so early?
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 07, 2005, 12:33:34 PM
What's the problem with the law and econ block?

bunch of money-hungry WASP conservatives.
Title: Can I get into Yale with this??
Post by: Lawprofessor on November 07, 2005, 10:40:07 PM
I have a 1.0 GPA and a 119 on the LSAT, can I get into Yale with that? If not, can I get into a T14?  If not, where can I get into?  I have an upward trend on my grades and I should admit that I took the LSAT prior to getting the 119 and I got a 100 and a 110, so I am improving?  Do schools take the highest score or the average?  Please someone help me.
Title: Re: Can I get into Yale with this??
Post by: lawstudent3 on November 07, 2005, 10:41:34 PM
You might have to settle for a "lower-ivy."
Title: Re: Can I get into Yale with this??
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 07, 2005, 10:47:39 PM
You might have to settle for a "lower-ivy."

like Harvard.

 :-* for rbg.
Title: Re: Can I get into Yale with this??
Post by: Lawprofessor on November 07, 2005, 10:54:33 PM
You might have to settle for a "lower-ivy."

like Harvard.

 :-* for rbg.

Harvard must be kicking his ass.  Where has that #%@! been?
Title: Re: Can I get into Yale with this??
Post by: Statistic on November 10, 2005, 10:21:58 PM
You might have to settle for a "lower-ivy."

like Harvard.

 :-* for rbg.

Harvard must be kicking his ass.  Where has that #%@! been?

Ya mamma ain't been makin' my money like she used to so I had to get rid of the internet. That ho stepped her game up last week and I'm back in bidness.
Title: Re: Can I get into Yale with this??
Post by: Lawprofessor on November 10, 2005, 11:14:45 PM
You might have to settle for a "lower-ivy."

like Harvard.

 :-* for rbg.

Well, speak of the devil......and in he walks.

Harvard must be kicking his ass.  Where has that #%@! been?

Ya mamma ain't been makin' my money like she used to so I had to get rid of the internet. That ho stepped her game up last week and I'm back in bidness.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: A. on November 11, 2005, 12:14:00 PM
Lol.  I defer to your sources, then.  YLS is run by the law and econ block.

why were you awake so early?

I had to catch the 7 a.m. into the City.  Just barely made it, too.
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: Slow Blues on November 14, 2005, 06:39:56 AM
I would say I have a burning sensation comparative to that pleasureful burning sensation otherwise known as clamydia. 

Just to give you guys an update, I went to Vietnam through a civic organization, and helped build a school, as well as teach English to kids.  It was only for a few weeks, but it was quite an experience nonetheless.  I plan on going to a country in Africa during the winter break through this same organization, but I have yet to decide where I am going to go.  Im from the Northeast and was wondering if the numbers I stated were good enough for BC or BU?

Also what are the sentiments on this board towards to the two test prep companies, Testmasters, and Powerscore?  Which one is better in your first hand experience (Im thinking if I break 170, I could get some aid money)?


Still, your low GPA will hurt you. Your LSAT is otherwise more than strong enough to get you into those schools. A good PS revolving around how your trip to Haiti awakened your drive would do a lot to help as well. The new extracurriculars will be a plus.  I couldn't say with any certainty whether you would get into either school. I'd say it makes sense to try applying to schools ranked from 10-40 or 10-50. Probably closer to the middle or bottom end of that range.

I don't have any experience with Testmasters or Powerscore, but I'm not sure you should re-take the LSAT either. Not only do you already have a tidy score, you would really need something like a 175 to bring your average up to a range where it might make sense to apply to the Top 10 schools.
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 14, 2005, 10:34:23 AM
I would say I have a burning sensation comparative to that pleasureful burning sensation otherwise known as clamydia. 

Just to give you guys an update, I went to Vietnam through a civic organization, and helped build a school, as well as teach English to kids.  It was only for a few weeks, but it was quite an experience nonetheless.  I plan on going to a country in Africa during the winter break through this same organization, but I have yet to decide where I am going to go.  Im from the Northeast and was wondering if the numbers I stated were good enough for BC or BU?

Also what are the sentiments on this board towards to the two test prep companies, Testmasters, and Powerscore?  Which one is better in your first hand experience (Im thinking if I break 170, I could get some aid money)?


if you do anything, you should stay in school an extra semester/year so that you can raise that GPA.  It is that important.  ideally you'd want to break 3.0 LSDAS just to give yourself a fighting chance which means gun for the 4.0 from now on
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 14, 2005, 12:50:42 PM
Quote
f you do anything, you should stay in school an extra semester/year so that you can raise that GPA.  It is that important.  ideally you'd want to break 3.0 LSDAS just to give yourself a fighting chance which means gun for the 4.0 from now on

From what I understand, the way the LSDAS works is that only the credits from your first major get counted towards your gpa, or something to that extent.  I would gladly spend an additional year, if all the extra credits counted towards my gpa.

No thats not the way it works.  it is only the credits from your first undergraduate degree.  so don't graduate and all the credits will count.
Title: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: TruOne on November 14, 2005, 07:15:45 PM
I'm wondering, is there some tried and true tested method that posters on LSD use to determine whether or not "You've got a good shot" and such and such schools?

Like I keep seeing these posts over and over where people are putting their academic self-worth in the hands of strangers who have access to USNWR or a admissions grid.

"With yer LSAT and GPA, yer a REACH for XYZ Law, you'd be a safe bet at University of ABC"

Like, what give these people the insight to accurately predict where people are gonna get in?

"Cuz the school's website says so! So does LSN!"

But are they the holy grail? Can they accurately predict whether the ADcom officer is going to take an interest in one kid over another?

I dunno, I just think it's pretenious for people to assume what school somoene will and won't be admitted to based on two numbers.
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: lex19 on November 14, 2005, 07:21:22 PM
that's why you can only take so much from this board unless your numbers are above 75% for whatever school your applying too...regardless of soft factors, urm status, residency...any of it
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: TruOne on November 14, 2005, 07:25:40 PM
and that's really what kills me, folx will sum up an entire person's chances just by glancing at 2 numbers.

"eh.....T2 is gonna be a reach for you. But yer safe with a couple of lower T3 schools?"

Wow....great way to sum up a person's potential. Hell, even my Pre-law advisor (MOrehouse Men know who I'm talkin' about) is on that same kick. For 3.5 years all I've heard him talk about were gpa and lsat #'s, never once did he ever bring up that other factors could factor into your admission status.

But then again . . .he never went to Law School, he just got a Ph.D in Poli Sci, so that might have something to do with it, but I digress.

Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: lex19 on November 14, 2005, 07:34:38 PM
i mean one can get a sense of what their chances are but other than that, you never know what will happen unless you're an "auto admit" for a certain school....another thing that bugs the hell out of me is how cats on this board are so quick to say that urm's get a certain amount of points added onto their lsat score...that really blows me like they just had a meeting with adcomms and what not, although i will agree that urm scores do get "padded" it's def not as much as posters think, if it was i'd be busy outlining for finals right now and not avoiding my lsat homework by posting on this board
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: A. on November 14, 2005, 07:37:27 PM
Several of us have been on these boards for years (yes, years), have seen where people get in with what numbers, and generally are fairly accurate with our assessments (esp. where they conern URMs, which are easier to predict than other applicants).  Law school is a numbers game.  Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.  We all like to think they look "beyond the numbers."  Well, they don't (save a very few schools like Yale and Stanford).  There might be a different standard for URMs, but it's still about the numbers even at that different standard.  Unless you've done something truly amazing (and being a student legislator, feeding the homeless, being a "Morehouse Man," etc. don't even count as amazing), it's the numbers that matter.
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: TruOne on November 14, 2005, 07:43:09 PM
Yet I know so many lawyers who have gone to T1 + T2 schools with 2.9 gpas or 143 LSATS.

Hell, the lawyer with a 2.9 went to Cornell. And all he did was tutor English as a Second language. IN fact this same lawyer was on Cornell's "board" that was in charge of admissions. (As if that gives more credibility)

So what part of the "numbers game" would account for his being recruited by a Ivy League school? Did AA really give him THAT big of a boost?

So it begs the question: Who is the ultimate authority?

Students who are currently going thru the process who hoop and hollar that all this is one big numbers game.

or

Practicing attorneys and Administrators who say to not let numbers dictact yer future.
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: lex19 on November 14, 2005, 07:47:54 PM
and even the amazing stuff isn't too amazing at this level, it's all about the total package, okay i need to go study so i can be the toal package ;)

and yes being AA could have given him that boost depending on the other AA candidates that year, the game is always changing....i'm still wondering why some schools offerred me money last year when i didn't deserve it number or soft factor wise
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: A. on November 14, 2005, 09:07:12 PM
Yet I know so many lawyers who have gone to T1 + T2 schools with 2.9 gpas or 143 LSATS.

Hell, the lawyer with a 2.9 went to Cornell. And all he did was tutor English as a Second language. IN fact this same lawyer was on Cornell's "board" that was in charge of admissions. (As if that gives more credibility)

So what part of the "numbers game" would account for his being recruited by a Ivy League school? Did AA really give him THAT big of a boost?

So it begs the question: Who is the ultimate authority?

Students who are currently going thru the process who hoop and hollar that all this is one big numbers game.

or

Practicing attorneys and Administrators who say to not let numbers dictact yer future.

And I would be among the first to tell you that it is not at all implausible, perhaps it is even likely, that a 2.9 could get into Cornell with a sufficiently high LSAT.  And a 143 can get into a T2.  Like I said, you can't measure a URM by the majority standard.

And I'm not "currently going thru the process."  Been there, done that.
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on November 14, 2005, 09:40:28 PM
Yet I know so many lawyers who have gone to T1 + T2 schools with 2.9 gpas or 143 LSATS.

Hell, the lawyer with a 2.9 went to Cornell. And all he did was tutor English as a Second language. IN fact this same lawyer was on Cornell's "board" that was in charge of admissions. (As if that gives more credibility)

So what part of the "numbers game" would account for his being recruited by a Ivy League school? Did AA really give him THAT big of a boost?

So it begs the question: Who is the ultimate authority?

Students who are currently going thru the process who hoop and hollar that all this is one big numbers game.

or

Practicing attorneys and Administrators who say to not let numbers dictact yer future.


I think schools like Cornell will take URMs with lower numbers b/c they have a harder time getting URMs to matriculate - most URMs who have the numbers to get into Cornell can probably get into a higher ranked school, at which point Ithaca becomes a very hard sell. Same thing can be said for Michigan and any other T1 school that isn't in a major city or doesn't already have a thriving black student population.

I agree with Alcibiades - law school admissions is more of a numbers game than anyone cares to admit, which is why folks who have been around for a while can make predictions with a good degree of accuracy based on LSAT, GPA, undergrad institution and URM status.
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: Lawprofessor on November 15, 2005, 01:49:02 AM
Law school admissions for the most part is a numbers game.  Take that from someone who has been through the process on more than one side. ;D
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: Slow Blues on November 15, 2005, 08:38:17 AM
Yet I know so many lawyers who have gone to T1 + T2 schools with 2.9 gpas or 143 LSATS.

Hell, the lawyer with a 2.9 went to Cornell. And all he did was tutor English as a Second language. IN fact this same lawyer was on Cornell's "board" that was in charge of admissions. (As if that gives more credibility)

So what part of the "numbers game" would account for his being recruited by a Ivy League school? Did AA really give him THAT big of a boost?

So it begs the question: Who is the ultimate authority?

Students who are currently going thru the process who hoop and hollar that all this is one big numbers game.

or

Practicing attorneys and Administrators who say to not let numbers dictact yer future.


I think schools like Cornell will take URMs with lower numbers b/c they have a harder time getting URMs to matriculate - most URMs who have the numbers to get into Cornell can probably get into a higher ranked school, at which point Ithaca becomes a very hard sell. Same thing can be said for Michigan and any other T1 school that isn't in a major city or doesn't already have a thriving black student population.

I agree with Alcibiades - law school admissions is more of a numbers game than anyone cares to admit, which is why folks who have been around for a while can make predictions with a good degree of accuracy based on LSAT, GPA, undergrad institution and URM status.

It's too bad there isn't a better database to assess one's chances other than LSAC and LSN. I would love to be able to see admit % for schools based on all kinds of factors: URM status, state of residency, work experience, etc. LSN just doesn't do it b/c it's not reliable.

Title: .
Post by: Slow Blues on November 15, 2005, 10:07:42 AM
.
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: A. on November 15, 2005, 10:20:07 AM
Look like a good list to me.  I would probably throw out the last two, though.  And I encourage everyone to apply to Yale  ;)
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: John Galt on November 15, 2005, 01:17:18 PM
Good Luck at Columbia.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on November 18, 2005, 02:52:35 PM
Dude 3.8 and 157 URM still nothing back I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: justGem on November 18, 2005, 03:29:37 PM
i guess i could just be real...i have similar numbers and i'm a woman and john galt's predictions sound about right to me. i didn't apply to as many schools as other people b/c i was pretty sure of what areas i was interested in living in...but i feel like duke, northwestern, virginia, g-town are all good bets, but not sure shots. good luck!

For this cycle you need at least a 160 for consideration at G-town with AA.  (Just sharing some inside info.)
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: LittleRussianPrincess, Esq. on November 18, 2005, 03:32:25 PM
Dude 3.8 and 157 URM still nothing back I'll keep you posted.

it's probably a bit early.  i wouldn't worry unless you still have nothing by the end of january.
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 19, 2005, 11:20:05 AM
and that's really what kills me, folx will sum up an entire person's chances just by glancing at 2 numbers.

"eh.....T2 is gonna be a reach for you. But yer safe with a couple of lower T3 schools?"

Wow....great way to sum up a person's potential.




LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yo, I truly enjoyed this thread's jab at the obvious.  A group of kids, asking another group of kids, neither of which are on law school admissions committees, what their chances of getting into law school are.

you have to laugh at that one.

And some of you on here are a little TOO sure of your prediction powers for your own good.  Drive slow homies.

True One, like LP said, law school is for the most part a numbers game unfortunately. Nobody denies this. That is how the game is played...in general by adcoms.  Pre laws and other law students can provide very little expert testimony as to your true chances other than to say what we subjectively have seen or heard.  We're not adcoms.  Bottom line.  We can predict till we're blue in the face based on personal experience, but we're not the ones who get to say "you're in" or "you're out".

So your criticism is apt.  If you search any law school from the so-called #1 to the so-called #180, you'll find students in their 3rd year of law school about to take the bar at schools where many of the individuals on these websites would have sworn were a LSN impossiblity.

Still to this day I have to sigh in disapointment when I see those infamous "what are my chances?" posts.  I know its only a matter of time before the so-called "experts" start deciding some poor bastard's future.  And what's worse, they actually listen.

Moral of the story: Other people can't define you - You define You. 
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: intent06 on November 19, 2005, 11:34:24 AM
Glad this was the first post I read this afternoon.  I will be sitting in my office laughing at how other "applicants" give others advice on what their chances are.  Yes, I am sure that it makes some of us feel better.  But I know (for a fact) that you cannot just look at someone with lower numbers and say that can't get into a certain school.  Maybe I am just a skeptic on who's advice I solicit, but I know for sure I will not be asking one of my peers who is writing personal statements, asking for LORs, and gathering transcripts what MY chances are at any given law school.  Just my 2 cents!
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: lex19 on November 19, 2005, 12:52:30 PM
thank you sands, too bad the ppl who need to take heed aren't going to
[quote author=Burning Sands
Still to this day I have to sigh in disapointment when I see those infamous "what are my chances?" posts.  I know its only a matter of time before the so-called "experts" start deciding some poor bastard's future.  And what's worse, they actually listen.

Moral of the story: Other people can't define you - You define You. 
[/quote]
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: jgatsby on November 19, 2005, 01:07:06 PM
Obviously, any poster asking for chances should be aware that these are the anonymous opinions of a group of people in a similar position to them.  I've been around since early 2004 and have seen 1 1/2 cycles of applicants, have pored over LSN, LSAC and Chiashu so I think I have a fairly good idea about my chances and the chances of others.  I avoid commenting on a school which I don't know about.  I think most posters do the same.  When I ask for my chances I do it just to see what other people think, not to determine what I should think myself. 
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: A. on November 19, 2005, 01:08:54 PM
What you guys fail to realize is that most people who come here have absolutely no idea where they stand in relation to everyone else.  There might be a 3.9/175 who thinks that GULC is a reach, and some poor chap who thinks that his 140 is getting him into Harvard.  I, for one, never advise against applying to as many "reaches" as one would like.  But I also give my honest opinion on the liklihood of the person being admitted to those reaches. 

People come here looking for information and reassurance.  Most pre-law advisors don't know jack.  Most admissions calculators aren't nuanced enough to assess a URM's chances.  And admissions people are not going to give you an honest assessment.  What's left?  Coming to a message board and soliciting the opinions of those who have been through the process, have seen other people go through the process, and have a general idea of what to expect.  Are we pyschic?  No.  But what else are they to do?  Read admissions books?  Those are useful, but they are written for a general audience and cannot give a good idea of where an individual should apply.  Pay $3k for counseling services?  Perhaps, but most people don't want to shell out that much money, and I have seen no evidence of their effectiveness. 

So, my question for the skeptics is, what method would you suggest, that you have found successful, for guiding these pre-law n00bs in their quest to assess their attractivness as candidates?
Title: Re: How accurate are people's predictions on here?
Post by: jgatsby on November 19, 2005, 01:48:41 PM
What you guys fail to realize is that most people who come here have absolutely no idea where they stand in relation to everyone else.  There might be a 3.9/175 who thinks that GULC is a reach, and some poor chap who thinks that his 140 is getting him into Harvard.  I, for one, never advise against applying to as many "reaches" as one would like.  But I also give my honest opinion on the liklihood of the person being admitted to those reaches. 

People come here looking for information and reassurance.  Most pre-law advisors don't know jack.  Most admissions calculators aren't nuanced enough to assess a URM's chances.  And admissions people are not going to give you an honest assessment.  What's left?  Coming to a message board and soliciting the opinions of those who have been through the process, have seen other people go through the process, and have a general idea of what to expect.  Are we pyschic?  No.  But what else are they to do?  Read admissions books?  Those are useful, but they are written for a general audience and cannot give a good idea of where an individual should apply.  Pay $3k for counseling services?  Perhaps, but most people don't want to shell out that much money, and I have seen no evidence of their effectiveness. 

So, my question for the skeptics is, what method would you suggest, that you have found successful, for guiding these pre-law n00bs in their quest to assess their attractivness as candidates?

Most newbies don't know where they stand, but people who have been here for a few months or a year seem to know.  My current post count isn't significant, but through my various usernames in the past, I'd easily top 2000 posts.  I find that people who are applying to the same level of schools give the best advice, but are also more cautious because they doubt their own chances.  I think that there should be a rating system, which was recommended months ago, to gauge whether a poster seems to know what they're talking about or not.  But even with that there are inherent flaws, it would work more to deter trolls and pure flame responses. 

As for another method, I don't think there is one.  We are limited in our ability to predict chances because we get the information from lsac, lsn and anecdotes, which are then just passed on to others when we give our predictions.  This is why I think the rating system might work, because then those who other posters think interpreted and translated the available knowledge to others can give them a little credibility point and those that have no idea what they are talking about or do not apply the available date accurately/fairly/comprehensively wil get a little point off. 
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on November 22, 2005, 11:14:09 AM
Yes but if I could just hear somthing!!!
Title: How's my lsit
Post by: Dotson on November 24, 2005, 02:26:52 PM

*
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: Slow Blues on November 24, 2005, 04:38:07 PM
Personally, I would be shocked if you don't get into just about every school on that list. I'd say add a couple of safeties that are not in the Top 10 in the extreme off-chance you are not accepted by one or more of the schools that are already on your list.

I'm told you can request need-based fee waivers from schools.
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: Dotson on November 24, 2005, 06:31:02 PM
Thanks for the input.  I just saw that you posted a similar thread.  Your list looks pretty nice. Good luck as well.
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: A. on November 25, 2005, 11:19:05 AM
I think you should add some more lower-to-mid t14.  Btw, it's "Stanford."
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: Dotson on November 25, 2005, 12:10:53 PM
Thanks for the input. Maybe I will add UVA and Mich.  I just figure that one of those schools would say yes and I don't think I would want to go to Cornell, Northwestern, Berkeley or Duke.  And I fixed the post. It sucks that my GPA is so weak but my lsat and work experience are strong so maybe that can mitigate the damage from the GPA. 
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: A. on November 25, 2005, 01:08:34 PM
Would you pick GULC over UVA or Mich?  Those were the two I was thinking you should add to your list.  You should definitely get in at those.  I wouldn't bother with the rest if you have no interest in going there.
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: Dotson on November 25, 2005, 01:15:39 PM
Yes. I would.  I only put in GULC as a safety.  I would probably take UVA over GULC and UMich but would go to any of the schools I listed before over all of three of them. 
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: A. on November 25, 2005, 03:32:43 PM
You could probably wait until the end of the year, see where you're in, and send out additional apps accordingly.
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on November 25, 2005, 10:37:39 PM
You could probably wait until the end of the year, see where you're in, and send out additional apps accordingly.

Alci, :o at your avatar! You are too much!

Dotson, I pretty much agree with Alcibiades' assessment. The 3.1 is not cute, but the 171 is a good mitigating factor in your admissions chances at these schools.  I can't remember how long you worked in politics, but I do know a lot of people at top schools have worked in politics, even nationally like yourself.
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: A. on November 26, 2005, 08:50:22 AM
You could probably wait until the end of the year, see where you're in, and send out additional apps accordingly.

Alci, :o at your avatar! You are too much!

Lol.  Believe it or not, I actually like bluebooking (my own stuff...not so big on sourceciting).
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: Dotson on November 26, 2005, 10:22:41 AM
You could probably wait until the end of the year, see where you're in, and send out additional apps accordingly.

Alci, :o at your avatar! You are too much!

Dotson, I pretty much agree with Alcibiades' assessment. The 3.1 is not cute, but the 171 is a good mitigating factor in your admissions chances at these schools.  I can't remember how long you worked in politics, but I do know a lot of people at top schools have worked in politics, even nationally like yourself.

the GPA puts me in a tough spot.  I figured the split scores would at least get me into the maybe piles.  My recommendation letters are solid and I am pretty much banking on the fact that I am not coming straight out of school and have consistent work experience concerning the field I intend to pursue in  law school from my job on the hill and my current job.  I also wrote an addendum because I worked during school and my pops lost my his job during my junior year so the hours had to get bumped up.  I hope that will be enough to get some of those schools to say yes.  Guess I will know in about 2 months. 
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: stiffler on November 26, 2005, 10:41:00 AM
you might be able to explain the gpa somewhat.  i know a kid who had a 2.8 something but got a 173 and got into columbia and chicago as a nonurm.  they said the lsat and the addendum proved his potential as a much better than 2.8 student.
Title: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 10:44:49 AM
Can someone give me an idea whether I have a chance at t14?  Thanks!
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: stiffler on November 26, 2005, 10:46:37 AM
no chance at t14 dude.  apply to tier ones though and party some more.
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 10:56:36 AM
Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: stiffler on November 26, 2005, 11:02:16 AM
dont mean to be too harsh.  you may have excellent soft factors, but the scores arent in your favor anyway.  maybe if you have great soft factors, urm status and everything you could get in somewhere.  actually maybe northwestern will like you anyway if your work experience is really interestings.
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: nukelaw on November 26, 2005, 11:29:40 AM
A friend IRL with similar numbers and experience was able to get into UC-Davis last year. HTH
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on November 26, 2005, 11:48:02 AM
You could probably wait until the end of the year, see where you're in, and send out additional apps accordingly.

Alci, :o at your avatar! You are too much!

Lol.  Believe it or not, I actually like bluebooking (my own stuff...not so big on sourceciting).

I like sourceciting. It is very communal.

Dotson, your addendum sounds good, esp. if there was a noticeable dip in grades when you had to take on more work.  Please keep us posted as to how everything goes.
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: One Step Ahead on November 26, 2005, 02:20:07 PM
Can someone give me an idea whether I have a chance at t14?  Thanks!

how weak?
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 02:35:33 PM
Pretty weak, I know I can get into somewhere decent, but I am just going to apply to the top schools who have given me fee waivers(NW, Chicago, Penn, Cornell ND and Vanderbilt) worth the 12 bucks to find out don't you think? I have a ton of backups who have waived their fees as well.  Just thought I would try and reach.
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: stiffler on November 26, 2005, 02:36:55 PM
Pretty weak, I know I can get into somewhere decent, but I am just going to apply to the top schools who have given me fee waivers(NW, Chicago, Penn, Cornell ND and Vanderbilt) worth the 12 bucks to find out don't you think? I have a ton of backups who have waived their fees as well.  Just thought I would try and reach.

fee waivers?  oh wow, i just realized that youre probably urm i didnt see what board it was posted under earlier. 

you have a shot.  apply to anywhere with the fee waiver.  its worth 12 bucks and a dream.
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 02:43:09 PM
Yes, I am a black.  That makes me feel alot better.
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 02:51:43 PM
Correct, only the credits before you earn your first undergrad degree count. You can conceivably have 250 semester hours counted for gpa purposes.
Title: Re: Admissions chances?
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 06:05:00 PM
Take a look at Vanderbilt and Notre Dame, very good schools.
Title: Re: 3.32, 158. Can I get into T14?
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 06:08:33 PM
Definitely try Vanderbilt.
Title: Re: what kind of lsat do i need to be competitive?
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 06:13:52 PM
162+ should get you in t14.
Title: Re: How's my lsit
Post by: partyguy708 on November 26, 2005, 06:15:17 PM
Try Chicago
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: Slow Blues on November 27, 2005, 08:55:12 AM
Can someone give me an idea whether I have a chance at t14?  Thanks!

I wouldn't become beholden to the Top 14 schools like everyone else here seems to be. You can go ahead and give those top schools a twirl, but I'd say pick schools around where you want to practice. If I might provide an unsolicited suggestion, how about somewhere like Emory, Miami, or George Mason?
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: partyguy708 on November 27, 2005, 10:18:30 AM
Thanks for the advice slow, do you know much about Pittsburgh, they sent me a fee waiver as well, and it seems like a good school.
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: Slow Blues on November 27, 2005, 10:46:01 AM
Thanks for the advice slow, do you know much about Pittsburgh, they sent me a fee waiver as well, and it seems like a good school.

I just know that a guy who is former USMC went there, did really well (made Law Review, tops in class), and now has a good job at a Pittsburgh firm.

Alcibiades and AgitatorE are really knowledgeable about the admissions game.
Title: Re: 3.65 ,158, 10 years work experience (weak undergrad college)
Post by: A. on November 27, 2005, 11:22:28 AM
You have a shot.  Pick your favorite schools out of the 8-25 range.
Title: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: New Man on December 04, 2005, 01:25:19 PM
My GPA sucks and I know it does. It is currently a 2.5, I have worked out that I could have it at a 2.8 if I graduate on time in May,  and a 3.0 if I go another semester and this is if I get all A's. I have a hard major, molecular biology and am not confident that I will get all A's.

 Will it make that much of a difference to the Adcomm's if I have a 2.5 or a 2.8? They are both below 3.0.

 I know people say 3.0 is the magic spot to even be considered but not only would I have to postpone law school I would also have to postpone graduation. I am also 25 and really don't want to have to do that.

 Or is it it in my best interests to wait?

 so question number 1, if I still graduate in May, and I have a 2.8, is that looked on any more favourably than a 2.5?

  And Should I postpone my graduation to try and make it to a 3.0?

  Or should I just go with what I have?

  The thing is I can't wait to see where I get in because my school needs to know now if I am going to graduate next semester or not!!
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: lawstudent3 on December 04, 2005, 01:26:23 PM
I think it's worth it to bring it up to a 2.8, but probably not the 3.0 as you'd have to stay extra long and it would be unlikely anyway.
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: mrrogers on December 04, 2005, 01:29:54 PM
I think it's worth it to bring it up to a 2.8, but probably not the 3.0 as you'd have to stay extra long and it would be unlikely anyway.

I agree with daveman.  You should always do your best, but we can't bend our lives for a law school acceptance. 
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: New Man on December 04, 2005, 01:31:42 PM
If I wait for the 2.8 I will have to postpone my applications until next year. is that increase worth waiting to send my apps in for? Will it make my file look any better because I will still be under a 3.0.
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: lawstudent3 on December 04, 2005, 01:33:45 PM
I think a 2.8 is significantly better, especially because there would be an upward trend.  It's at least close to a 3.0.  A 2.5 is not even close and might be hard for an adcom to swallow.  I think it's worth it.
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: mrrogers on December 04, 2005, 01:33:53 PM
I don't think it is worth the wait.  You have a difficult major and also the minority status will help you out a bit (I assume you are black because of where this was posted and the thread title, if you aren't I apologize). 

Don't worry about the small difference. 
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: New Man on December 04, 2005, 01:38:51 PM
Yes, I am black. I guess I will see what happens. Maybe I will see if they can extend my graduation date if I want to stay an extra semester.
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 04, 2005, 02:25:14 PM
GPA is very important so I would say go for the 3.0+ by taking "easy classes" if you don't think you'll get it by taking molecular biology.  you'll be in a much better position for law school
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: windowshopper on December 04, 2005, 03:17:04 PM
Across the board, the LSAT counts a LOT more than GPA so you would probably be best served by studying your a$$ off and doing really well on it. 
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: New Man on December 04, 2005, 04:36:02 PM
what score am I looking at to get into to somewhere like Duke, Michigan or Iowa?
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: lawstudent3 on December 04, 2005, 04:37:15 PM
With a 2.5 or 2.8 and being URM, that's a lot of variables.  I honestly don't know, but I'd think mid-160s at the least.
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: Slow Blues on December 04, 2005, 04:56:24 PM
what score am I looking at to get into to somewhere like Duke, Michigan or Iowa?

I'd say high 160s, if not a 170 flat for Michigan and Duke. Maybe mid 160 range for Iowa. Even then it's no guarantee.
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: windowshopper on December 04, 2005, 06:04:15 PM
I'll let you know how it works out for me [2.5/161/URM].  ??? But I would agree that you need probably somewhere in the 165+ range. 
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: New Man on December 04, 2005, 06:37:56 PM
Good luck, I hope you do well. I have spoken to family members and I will be trying my chances this cycle as well. Good luck to the both if us!!
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: windowshopper on December 05, 2005, 04:41:15 PM
thanks!!  I think the best way to go is casting a wide net.  Did you just test on Saturday?
Title: What Law Schools to Apply To??
Post by: ReformedSlacker(HFG) on December 05, 2005, 11:41:13 PM
GPA 1.98 (40 hour PW Job)(And a number of other things)
LSAT 149

Were can i apply to besides Cooley?
Title: Re: Help a brother out with some advice please!!
Post by: shaz on December 06, 2005, 03:14:54 AM
If I wait for the 2.8 I will have to postpone my applications until next year. is that increase worth waiting to send my apps in for? Will it make my file look any better because I will still be under a 3.0.

have you taken the lsat yet? it sounds like you are applying this cycle, or at least hoping to. i say go with the numbers you have. if you don't get into one of your reaches, consider going to schools you do get into.

if you just can't see yourself going to a school ranked lower than 14, then just resign your self to putting school off a year. a 3.0/160 seems to be the magic combo. from there, every incremental increase does wonders. 

first things first though. get your lsat score and then make up your mind. i bet a 170/2.5 will get into some pretty good schools.
Title: Re: What Law Schools to Apply To??
Post by: SanchoPanzo on December 06, 2005, 09:46:17 PM
Go to http://officialguide.lsac.org/docs/cgi-bin/home.asp
And click "LSAC Data Search" for ideas
Also, try http://www.chiashu.com/lsat.html
and http://www.bc.edu/offices/careers/gradschool/law/lawlocator/#the25

Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: lawstudent3 on December 07, 2005, 09:58:46 PM
You will get close to full rides to any school outside the top 14, and probably significant money even from those within.  If you have your apps out in January you will be just fine.  Believe me, they want you. :)
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: AH on December 07, 2005, 10:38:46 PM
I agree with daveman, with those stats you shouldn't have a problem, esp. if you're in by Jan.
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: maxambit on December 08, 2005, 10:24:07 AM
You may want to check out the LSAC Official Guide to ABA Approved Law Schools. They're allowing free access at the moment. You might find answers to some of your questions about money there.

http://officialguide.lsac.org/docs/cgi-bin/home.asp
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: lex19 on December 09, 2005, 05:09:14 AM
make it happen JD, but like others said get your apps in asap and good luck
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: A. on December 09, 2005, 05:34:27 PM
Echoing the advice of others: Apply.  Apply to the entire t14, or at least the top 7 or 8.
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: jnc18 on December 09, 2005, 06:11:00 PM
That's tough, only because you've already been out for a couple of years.

If you were still in school, I'd definitely tell you to wait a year.  With your credentials, if you scored 165+, you'd not only get in pretty much every top school, you would be paid in the shade. 

But you're probably ready to go now.  The question is, how far along are you?  You have any applications started?  Anything done on your Personal Statement?  Other essays?  How about LORs?  Have you sent transcripts to LSAC?  The applications can actually be done very quickly, but the essays and anything involving LSAC takes longer than you would expect.

BTW, could you share some of your GPA points?  I'm sure you could spare .25, right?
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: jnc18 on December 09, 2005, 06:19:31 PM
In fact, if you give me .46, I'll do your apps, write your PS and do an LOR, then we can BOTH go to NYU (or equivalent) for free.  :D
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: JamesD on December 09, 2005, 07:39:07 PM
I'm waiting on 1 more LOR, and my personal statement is already finished.  My transcripts haven't been sent yet, because I'm still repaying my debt to the bursar's office at my old school.  Just being honest, I was really broke during college, and got a bit behind on my bursar bill.  I've been on a payment plan since.  It's coming down to the wire now, because I really need my transcripts released (there's a hold on my account at present).  It's all good though, because I've bene working like mad lately, exceeding quotas, and getting bonuses.  I'm going to make a 2k payment on December 20th, and my account will be cleared.  After that, they can release my transcripts.

So basically, I'm thinking that my applications will all be in and complete by mid-January.  I hope that's not too late.

The one school I have to rush for is Duke--- that one is due January 1st, so it'll be a close call.

I hope schools don't simply stop giving out merit money as their deadline approcahes.  I was just never aware that applications needed to be submitted so early.

Thanks everyone.  All your advice is much appreciated.

Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: lex19 on December 10, 2005, 12:19:47 AM
at top schools there's always money no matter what they say
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: shaz on December 10, 2005, 12:40:16 AM
where are you trying to apply? some schools don't even start to review apps until jan. uw, l&c, and i think seattle wait until jan. keep in mind that threre are people who don't apply until feb and still get in. the deadlines for most schools are in march for a reason. if you have the numbers, schools will find the room. i'm sure your app will get mine waitlisted at a lot of schools.  :D
Title: WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?
Post by: Nowhere Man on December 10, 2005, 02:30:26 PM
I have a 2.1 GPA in Management Info Systems. Im takin the LSAT in Feb. for the first time.  I am just trying to get into FAMU in Orlando. Im currently taking a LSAT prep course. In fact, come January, it will be my third time so I can grasp this test. Ive been really studying.

What do you think I have to score to be competitive?

Or do I even stand a chance.
Title: Re: WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?
Post by: Terabithia on December 10, 2005, 03:50:00 PM
Study hard and try to get a 155 or above!!
Title: Re: Apply this year, or wait til next cycle?
Post by: t L on December 10, 2005, 04:30:05 PM
i think you should apply this year.
Title: Re: WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?
Post by: Nowhere Man on December 10, 2005, 04:33:12 PM
Its funny. Thats the RANGE, that Im pushing for. 155+.. Wow thanks for the response. Its greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?
Post by: shaz on December 11, 2005, 05:48:44 AM
i 155+, you can do better than fam u. i would think 150 would be enough.

is fam u accredited? i don't think so. 155+ would probably be auto admit with $$. i would imagine that fam u would have direct competition w/ texas southern for students.

question...have you actually taken three prep classes? that is kind of overkill. where are you testing at now? i was testing in the high 150s, low 160,s. if i had to do it all over again, i would just do prep tests with 30 minute time limits. majority of my errors occur at the end of sections. guessed last 6 on both lr sections and got hung up on the circuit game.

i took a prep class. i was scoring higher on my own. i actually scored below my initial diagnostic. note: the prep class was excellent but my approach was not. i allowed myself to become too dependant on the homework. (the homework is untimed.) don't fall into the trap of not working on your speed. speed is sooo important.

check out lsn. there are people with low gpa who get into t2/t3 schools with good lsats.
Title: Hey guys, I need some help figuring this out>>
Post by: Kobe on December 23, 2005, 01:18:26 PM
Hey guys. I'm wondering what my chances are at a T14. I just got my LSAT score and it is very disheartening: I have a 153. My GPA is 3.3 (3.9 major)

Michigan is my number one choice but I'm wondering if I should even apply. My background: English is my second language (I've been in the country for about 6 yrs), I am African American and I have A LOT of experience in the nonprofit sector(I began 2 nonprofit organizations). Will my soft factors be good enough to help me with my admissions ? Where should I apply and should not apply ?

thanks.
Title: where should i apply?
Post by: t L on December 23, 2005, 01:49:04 PM
.
Title: Re: Hey guys, I need some help figuring this out>>
Post by: cinnamin2891 on December 23, 2005, 02:37:05 PM
Please please please apply to Northwestern and UMich - I think these are great schools for the wonderful background you have.  Good luck with everything.
Title: Re: Hey guys, I need some help figuring this out>>
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on December 23, 2005, 02:53:04 PM
Northwestern loves that kind of thing. Can't say much for Michigan. Have you considered retaking the LSAT?
Title: Re: Hey guys, I need some help figuring this out>>
Post by: Kobe on December 23, 2005, 03:40:54 PM
I would retake. But is it worth it if I only improve by 4 points ? I want to apply this cycle and Feb. is far too late from what I hear.

So Northwestern and UMich really are a possiblity ?
Title: Re: Hey guys, I need some help figuring this out>>
Post by: Slow Blues on December 23, 2005, 05:10:05 PM
I would retake. But is it worth it if I only improve by 4 points ? I want to apply this cycle and Feb. is far too late from what I hear.

So Northwestern and UMich really are a possiblity ?

Well, where were you practice testing? 160 or so?

I'd say Northwestern and Michigan are an outside possibility. It's worth it to try, but these would be your reaches if you're not re-taking. I would suggest: Arizona, Florida, Hofstra, Maryland, Miami, Rutgers-Newark, Temple, and perhaps Brooklyn. You'd stand a good shot at most of these. Any idea where you'd like to practice?
Title: 3.5/152 chances
Post by: CocoPuff on December 23, 2005, 05:35:07 PM
(stats removed) plus I'm applying late. Is Fordham even a possibility? Columbia?
Title: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 23, 2005, 08:57:33 PM
Hello, I am a 19 years old African American male who is about to graduate from college. I have a low cumliative GPA (3.1) and I haven't taken the LSAT yet. I think I could possibly score in the 160's on the LSAT. My GPA is low because I had to work 20-25 hours per week, while taking 18-21 credits a semester.I needed the money to support my family, I also have went through an extreme amount of extuenting circumstances. I lived in homeless shelter at one point. Anyway, what law schools could I possibly gain admission into? Will admission committees take my early graduation as a positive or negative? Thank you for any responses and have a happy holiday season.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: HBCU.EDU on December 23, 2005, 09:18:54 PM
Hello, I am a 19 years old African American male who is about to graduate from college. I have a low cumliative GPA (3.1) and I haven't taken the LSAT yet. I think I could possibly score in the 160's on the LSAT. My GPA is low because I had to work 20-25 hours per week, while taking 18-21 credits a semester.I needed the money to support my family, I also have went through an extreme amount of extuenting circumstances. I lived in homeless shelter at one point. Anyway, what law schools could I possibly gain admission into? Will admission committees take my early graduation as a positive or negative? Thank you for any responses and have a happy holiday season.


Welcome to BLSD. Where do you want to study law? Also, where did you go to undergrad and how much time did you spend in college? I think it's a positive that you graduated early if that is the case. However, I don't see how you were able to graduate at 19 if your extenuating circumstances were so extreme. You seem to have good "soft factors", i.e., homeless shelter, worked in college, supported your family, etc. Those aspects of your life are a positive and can be used to write a strong personal statement that shows your ability to overcome adversity. You may not need to share that  information if your LSAT speaks for itself though.   

Your LSAT score will decide which law school you get into. Have you taken any practice exams? If you score in the 160s I think you have a great shot at getting into the school of your choice but it all depends on where you are trying to study.   
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 23, 2005, 09:53:18 PM
Well, I am scheduled get through college in 30 months thanks to God. I entered college a month after I turned 17. It has not been easy. I had surgery three months ago so that a tumor could be removed from my arm. I missed two weeks of classes due to this. I also have had to deal psychologically with my grandmother. She suffered a stroke and is unable to talk to me, she is simply a "vegetable" at this point. I was also raised by a single mother, she can not afford a lot of things so I am basically helping to support her and myself. I haven't seen my father in over 13 years. I have a long list of extreme circumstances. That is why I am not ashamed of my accomplishments. Yeah I will not graduate cum laude, but I think that it is a blessing to graduate with a respectable GPA in 30 months considering everything I went and am still going through. I attended two schools a public and a private in New York, both are respectable regionally.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: shae on December 23, 2005, 10:12:10 PM
ok im not black but i decided to venture over b/c i ran out of topics to read or comment on.  hope you guys dont mind.

i think, with your situation (and a good LSAT score) you would have a good shot anywhere (even if you weren't URM).

If you do well on the LSAT then your somewhat lower GPA is VERY explainable.  Study your ass off for the LSAT!

It sounds like you have had a really difficult life- it is very inspiring to me that you have been able to accomplish so much with so many things trying to hold you back.  Good luck with everything!
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: intent06 on December 23, 2005, 10:22:00 PM
Of course, no one minds if you post here.  Come chat anytime man.  I think you offered some solid advice.  Congrats on all of the acceptances so far!
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 24, 2005, 01:50:47 AM
I would just like to say thank you to everyone who has given me words of encouragement. I am not an emotional guy, but your kind words of encouragement really mean a lot to me. Now that I am thinking about, I wonder how I survived some of the things I did. I just want to let everyone know that anything is possible in life, the statistics were undoubtedly aganist me, however, I believe that I am living proof that anyone can beat statistics. I really want and NEED to take a prep course for the LSAT. Does anyone know of any programs for poor/minority students that give discounts or possibly free preparation to these type of students? Thank you.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: HBCU.EDU on December 24, 2005, 02:27:38 AM
I would just like to say thank you to everyone who has given me words of encouragement. I am not an emotional guy, but your kind words of encouragement really mean a lot to me. Now that I am thinking about, I wonder how I survived some of the things I did. I just want to let everyone know that anything is possible in life, the statistics were undoubtedly aganist me, however, I believe that I am living proof that anyone can beat statistics. I really want and NEED to take a prep course for the LSAT. Does anyone know of any programs for poor/minority students that give discounts or possibly free preparation to these type of students? Thank you.

Hold up now...You may not need a prep course for the LSAT. I took the Kaplan prep and spent 1000.00 on it. It was a waste of time and money. I wish I found BLSD before making that investment. First, purchase as many practice exams as you can and take many many test under timed conditions. That way, you don't have to make a 1000.00 investment if you are making the score that can get you into your first choice. However, if you take those exams under timed conditions and you feel like you still need extra help then you can take a prep course. Go to this site http://www.lsac.org  You can get practice exams here. Take 5 or 10 of these exams first because you may score in the 160s without any outside help. The practice exams are not expensive at all. lsac.org even has 1 free practice exam. Got to: THE LSAT > LSAT PREPARATION > LSAT SAMPLE TEST.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: Slow Blues on December 24, 2005, 09:29:50 AM
I would just like to say thank you to everyone who has given me words of encouragement. I am not an emotional guy, but your kind words of encouragement really mean a lot to me. Now that I am thinking about, I wonder how I survived some of the things I did. I just want to let everyone know that anything is possible in life, the statistics were undoubtedly aganist me, however, I believe that I am living proof that anyone can beat statistics. I really want and NEED to take a prep course for the LSAT. Does anyone know of any programs for poor/minority students that give discounts or possibly free preparation to these type of students? Thank you.

I don't know of any programs. I agree with HBCU that you may not necessarily need to take a prep course. I would start with LSAT prep books you can find in Barnes & Noble or wherever and also get as many practice tests as you can from LSAC and other sources. Read and practice with the books and then sit for a few practice exams. There are free ones administered from time to time. Your prep needs to be rigorous.

I'm guessing you're not applying this cycle (two months is not enough time to prep for the February 06 LSAT), but starting to study now gives you a good amount of prep time for the June 2006 exam. This puts you in the best position to get your applications in EARLY.

Later down the line, after you've sat for the LSAT, depending on your financial situation, you can request need-based fee waivers from practically any school to which you'd like to apply. Make sure you sign up for the Candidate Referral Service on LSAC. You'll get a lot of junk mail, but you'll also get waivers from schools.

Also, you should think about getting letters of recommendation now, while professors are familiar with you and your classwork.

You've definitely more than just survived against the odds; you've excelled. :) I don't think your young age will be a hindrance to admission, considering everything else against which you've prevailed. Yet, you are correct, your GPA is on the low side, just like mine was. I think to have a good shot at the best schools, you will need to do as well as you possibly can on the LSAT (over 160). We're all here to help you out.
Title: Re: Hey guys, I need some help figuring this out>>
Post by: Kobe on December 24, 2005, 01:03:15 PM
I would retake. But is it worth it if I only improve by 4 points ? I want to apply this cycle and Feb. is far too late from what I hear.

So Northwestern and UMich really are a possiblity ?

Well, where were you practice testing? 160 or so?

I'd say Northwestern and Michigan are an outside possibility. It's worth it to try, but these would be your reaches if you're not re-taking. I would suggest: Arizona, Florida, Hofstra, Maryland, Miami, Rutgers-Newark, Temple, and perhaps Brooklyn. You'd stand a good shot at most of these. Any idea where you'd like to practice?

I hope to practice in the NorthEast (Virginia, MA, also Pennsylvania, New York...) I guess I would have to have a good reason for my low LSAT
Title: Re: ???
Post by: Slow Blues on December 24, 2005, 05:34:29 PM
Your odds aren't very good, but you might as well give both a shot. After all, not applying at all is equivalent to a rejection. All black applicants will receive a good deal of consideration. Your GPA is quite strong, so you may want to emphasize this aspect in your application. If you have not traditionally performed well on standardized tests such as SAT/ACT/LSAT, you should bring this up too.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: #2 on December 24, 2005, 06:36:54 PM
I would just like to say thank you to everyone who has given me words of encouragement. I am not an emotional guy, but your kind words of encouragement really mean a lot to me. Now that I am thinking about, I wonder how I survived some of the things I did. I just want to let everyone know that anything is possible in life, the statistics were undoubtedly aganist me, however, I believe that I am living proof that anyone can beat statistics. I really want and NEED to take a prep course for the LSAT. Does anyone know of any programs for poor/minority students that give discounts or possibly free preparation to these type of students? Thank you.

Kaplan will shave up to half off based on your financial status.  Call your nearest Kaplan to find out more.  Although, it might not be worth it since Kaplan is often considered the worst of the test prep companies for the LSAT.  Testmasters is much better, but does not offer any financial assistance.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: shae on December 24, 2005, 07:12:57 PM
I thought Princeton Review was considered the worst (don't they use "fake" LSAT questions becasue they dont want to pay to license the real ones??)
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 24, 2005, 10:24:43 PM
zachary, welcome to this board!  I echo a lot of the advice you've heard.  Take a couple practice tests and see where your weaknesses are.  If you can find the strength to be internally motivated, I would counsel against spending your money.  You certainly don't need a prep class to improve, but if possible I'd suggest seeing if any students nearby are in the same boat as you-you can pitch in and get test materials and support each other throughout this process. 

One thing I would say is that if it is at all possible try to bring that gpa up.  Every point counts.  Law schools want to see that despite the odds you were able to excell. 

I won't predict your chances til I have a better idea of where you are scoring LSAT wise, but I think if you put in the work you have the background that the top 14 can appreciate. 
As for your question about age/graduating early--
I graduated pretty early and I don't think it hurt me admissions-wise, but I do think that a lot of schools can be wary of younger applicants partly because they tend to burn out and also because they often lack emotional maturity.  Given your life experiences I doubt the latter will be a serious problem, but I wonder given the emotionally charged experiences you've been through if you might need a bit of a break. 
Title: Re: 3.5/152 chances
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 24, 2005, 10:29:17 PM
Fordham will be a stretch.  try Cardozo + Rutgers
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 25, 2005, 04:15:44 AM
I would just like to take this time to say (or write) thank you to everyone who offered me such a warm welcome to BLSD. Everyones advice this far has been very helpful and insightful. #2, I will definately contact my local Kaplan center and see if they offer any discounts. HBCU.EDU, I will go to my neighborhood bookstore and buy LSAT prep books and see if I need a prep course.  Agiator, thank you for your advice as well. I really doubt that my GPA will increase significantly, since I only have a semester and maybe a summer session left. I hope that law schools will consider my bad GPA (in law school terms). Since unlike many students I took an average of 18-21 credits a semester with a 20-25 hour a week job. If they don't then life goes on, but I really hope that the adcomms consider that. In regard to your advice about taking a break, I would like to say thank you. I will take a break, I am graduating this year and I am not planning on entering law school until next year when I am 20. Hopefully my emotional state will improve by that time....I just got all of my grades for this semester. My GPA went down drastically. My term GPA is a 2.72, this is the worst GPA I have every had in my college career. One of the major reasons that my GPA went down was because I missed the first two and a half weeks of classes due to the need of surgery. My cumulative GPA is still a 3.1, thankfully it was not hurt. How will law schools perceive this downward trend? When I submit my application should I send a letter from my doctor? Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: shae on December 25, 2005, 02:40:50 PM
if you have one semester where your GPA is much lower than your other semesters, and you include an excuse, then they will probably discount the importance of that one semester.

in your case, i am sure that law schools will see that your GPA could have been much higher if you had taken more time and not worked.

the LSAT will be very important for you (moreso than others), IMO
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 25, 2005, 06:02:05 PM
I would just like to take this time to say (or write) thank you to everyone who offered me such a warm welcome to BLSD. Everyones advice this far has been very helpful and insightful. #2, I will definately contact my local Kaplan center and see if they offer any discounts. HBCU.EDU, I will go to my neighborhood bookstore and buy LSAT prep books and see if I need a prep course.  Agiator, thank you for your advice as well. I really doubt that my GPA will increase significantly, since I only have a semester and maybe a summer session left. I hope that law schools will consider my bad GPA (in law school terms). Since unlike many students I took an average of 18-21 credits a semester with a 20-25 hour a week job. If they don't then life goes on, but I really hope that the adcomms consider that. In regard to your advice about taking a break, I would like to say thank you. I will take a break, I am graduating this year and I am not planning on entering law school until next year when I am 20. Hopefully my emotional state will improve by that time....I just got all of my grades for this semester. My GPA went down drastically. My term GPA is a 2.72, this is the worst GPA I have every had in my college career. One of the major reasons that my GPA went down was because I missed the first two and a half weeks of classes due to the need of surgery. My cumulative GPA is still a 3.1, thankfully it was not hurt. How will law schools perceive this downward trend? When I submit my application should I send a letter from my doctor? Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.

is there  reason why you are rushing to graduate? (financial aid concerns etc?) because if you want my honest opinion, that 2.72 is really going to hurt especially if that is the second to last semester on your transcript.  of course all of this depends on what kind of school you are aiming for, but if you are looking to the top 25 my advice would be to talk with your college/financial aid office and see if you can stay at least one additional semester (perhaps reducing your course load).  And you want to shoot for ideally 3.7+/minimally 3.5 to show them you can handle the work.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 25, 2005, 07:57:00 PM
is there  reason why you are rushing to graduate? (financial aid concerns etc?) because if you want my honest opinion, that 2.72 is really going to hurt especially if that is the second to last semester on your transcript.  of course all of this depends on what kind of school you are aiming for, but if you are looking to the top 25 my advice would be to talk with your college/financial aid office and see if you can stay at least one additional semester (perhaps reducing your course load).  And you want to shoot for ideally 3.7+/minimally 3.5 to show them you can handle the work.
[/quote]

So you are saying that law schools will not take my medical excuse? If this is the case, I think that it is really sad and unequal. I had to work, have surgery, take a heavy credit load, etc. While some other rich kid (minorities included) could run and ask daddy or mommy for money. I thought that law schools were fair and equal. If you equate my GPA to some other kid who did not have to work, did not have to live in a homeless shelter, did not have to have surgery and miss two weeks, etc. I believe that my GPA is equivalent to a 3.5/3.6 if you consider the circumstances. Furthermore, I have seen many people on LSN (specifically URM's) who got accepted in to t14 schools with a 3.1 or lower in some cases. I can not afford to go to school an additional semester. As I said before, I am not going to alter my life just to get into law school. If they accept me they accept, if they don't they don't. Life will go on.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: shae on December 25, 2005, 08:05:47 PM
is there  reason why you are rushing to graduate? (financial aid concerns etc?) because if you want my honest opinion, that 2.72 is really going to hurt especially if that is the second to last semester on your transcript.  of course all of this depends on what kind of school you are aiming for, but if you are looking to the top 25 my advice would be to talk with your college/financial aid office and see if you can stay at least one additional semester (perhaps reducing your course load).  And you want to shoot for ideally 3.7+/minimally 3.5 to show them you can handle the work.

So you are saying that law schools will not take my medical excuse? If this is the case, I think that it is really sad and unequal. I had to work, have surgery, take a heavy credit load, etc. While some other rich kid (minorities included) could run and ask daddy or mommy for money. I thought that law schools were fair and equal. If you equate my GPA to some other kid who did not have to work, did not have to live in a homeless shelter, did not have to have surgery and miss two weeks, etc. I believe that my GPA is equivalent to a 3.5/3.6 if you consider the circumstances. Furthermore, I have seen many people on LSN (specifically URM's) who got accepted in to t14 schools with a 3.1 or lower in some cases. I can not afford to go to school an additional semester. As I said before, I am not going to alter my life just to get into law school. If they accept me they accept, if they don't they don't. Life will go on.
[/quote]

law schools are NOT fair and equal.  they are not fair and equal in order to attract a diverse class.  you would contribute greatly to a diverse class so, in this case, the unfairness and unequalness will probably help you.

i think the adcoms will look at you situation and understand why your gpa is lower than it could have been.  that is why i think yout LSAT is vital.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 25, 2005, 09:17:28 PM
is there  reason why you are rushing to graduate? (financial aid concerns etc?) because if you want my honest opinion, that 2.72 is really going to hurt especially if that is the second to last semester on your transcript.  of course all of this depends on what kind of school you are aiming for, but if you are looking to the top 25 my advice would be to talk with your college/financial aid office and see if you can stay at least one additional semester (perhaps reducing your course load).  And you want to shoot for ideally 3.7+/minimally 3.5 to show them you can handle the work.

So you are saying that law schools will not take my medical excuse? If this is the case, I think that it is really sad and unequal. I had to work, have surgery, take a heavy credit load, etc. While some other rich kid (minorities included) could run and ask daddy or mommy for money. I thought that law schools were fair and equal. If you equate my GPA to some other kid who did not have to work, did not have to live in a homeless shelter, did not have to have surgery and miss two weeks, etc. I believe that my GPA is equivalent to a 3.5/3.6 if you consider the circumstances. Furthermore, I have seen many people on LSN (specifically URM's) who got accepted in to t14 schools with a 3.1 or lower in some cases. I can not afford to go to school an additional semester. As I said before, I am not going to alter my life just to get into law school. If they accept me they accept, if they don't they don't. Life will go on.
[/quote]

I'm saying they may look at your medical excuse as say--why didn't this guy simply withdraw for the semester instead of trashing his gpa?  obviously there are people who have gotten in with similar/lower numbers--most had a rising grade trend.  the others had a good deal of post-graduation work experience. 
of course this is one person's advice so feel free to trash it, but I think you'd be well advised to see if you can work something out.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 26, 2005, 12:04:37 AM
I'm saying they may look at your medical excuse as say--why didn't this guy simply withdraw for the semester instead of trashing his gpa?  obviously there are people who have gotten in with similar/lower numbers--most had a rising grade trend.  the others had a good deal of post-graduation work experience. of course this is one person's advice so feel free to trash it, but I think you'd be well advised to see if you can work something out.
[/quote]

Thank you Agitator and Shae for your admission advice. Agitator my PS will be based on how poor I am. If any admissions committee ask "why didn't this guy simply withdraw for the semester instead of trashing his gpa?" Hopefully, they would understand that I could not afford to withdraw from courses after I was registered for them. Unfortunately, I am on full financial aid (scholarships, loans, grants, etc) I am sure that you know that once you register for a semester you are responsible for the bill. I had already started the first week when I found out when my surgery was going to be scheduled. Once again I am not an elite black so I could not schedule my surgery at my convenience. I am on medicaid and my surgery wasn't going to be scheduled until they approved payment for the surgeon. Removal of a non-cancerous tumor is not considered life threating, however, it is extremely painful. Therefore, approval for payment took longer than usual. I apperciate your advice, but your advice seems to be more geared toward upper class blacks than poor blacks such as myself. Once again it is easy for Johnny to go to mommy or daddy and ask them to pay for half of the tuition bill because he needs to drop his courses for medical purposes, unfortunately that is not my case.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 26, 2005, 12:47:56 AM
I'm saying they may look at your medical excuse as say--why didn't this guy simply withdraw for the semester instead of trashing his gpa?  obviously there are people who have gotten in with similar/lower numbers--most had a rising grade trend.  the others had a good deal of post-graduation work experience. of course this is one person's advice so feel free to trash it, but I think you'd be well advised to see if you can work something out.

Thank you Agitator and Shae for your admission advice. Agitator my PS will be based on how poor I am. If any admissions committee ask "why didn't this guy simply withdraw for the semester instead of trashing his gpa?" Hopefully, they would understand that I could not afford to withdraw from courses after I was registered for them. Unfortunately, I am on full financial aid (scholarships, loans, grants, etc) I am sure that you know that once you register for a semester you are responsible for the bill. I had already started the first week when I found out when my surgery was going to be scheduled. Once again I am not an elite black so I could not schedule my surgery at my convenience. I am on medicaid and my surgery wasn't going to be scheduled until they approved payment for the surgeon. Removal of a non-cancerous tumor is not considered life threating, however, it is extremely painful. Therefore, approval for payment took longer than usual. I apperciate your advice, but your advice seems to be more geared toward upper class blacks than poor blacks such as myself. Once again it is easy for Johnny to go to mommy or daddy and ask them to pay for half of the tuition bill because he needs to drop his courses for medical purposes, unfortunately that is not my case.
[/quote]

umm zachary I find your tone a bit offensive.  As someone who didn't rush to mommy and daddy and ask them to pay for anything concerning my UG education, you might want to hold your horses.  The first thing I said was talk to your financial aid/college office.  Contrary to popular belief, most of them are not ogres trying to stick it to you, but rather would want to be supportive of their students--a week in they may have been able to refund your money.  You'll never know until you ASK.  And actually I would have said the same about your professors--if you talked to them, they might have been able to work with you (perhaps giving you extracredit assignments etc). 
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 26, 2005, 01:49:54 AM
umm zachary I find your tone a bit offensive.  As someone who didn't rush to mommy and daddy and ask them to pay for anything concerning my UG education, you might want to hold your horses.  The first thing I said was talk to your financial aid/college office.  Contrary to popular belief, most of them are not ogres trying to stick it to you, but rather would want to be supportive of their students--a week in they may have been able to refund your money.  You'll never know until you ASK.  And actually I would have said the same about your professors--if you talked to them, they might have been able to work with you (perhaps giving you extracredit assignments etc). 
[/quote]

Agitator,I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that I did not ask my Professors for favors. Actually it was quite the contary. I asked many of my Professors if they would give me other assignments to compensate for any bad grades that I received in their course. None of them cared about my problems, all of my Professors were white so obviously they would not really want to help me out. I am sorry that you took offense to my previous post, that was not my objective. You must have misinterpret what I was trying to argue. I was simply given you a senario that I am not fortunate to have at my exposure at this time in my life. I never implied that you were "Johnny", it was simply an example. I am not sure if you went (or go) to a mostly white undergrad. But it is very rare to find Professors who care about their students. Trust me agitator any senario that you can think of I have probably tried it. I tried to talk to the Bursars office you think that they cared about my problems. I go to a money hungry private school, they are in the game for the money. However, I can not look back on the past. That 2.72 is on my record for the rest of my life and there is little I can about it at this point. I must look to the future and that is what I am doing at this point. Since we are typing (not talking) I understand that it is somewhat difficult for you to determine my tone, however, when someone is trying to be rude while typing they usually use all caps to demonstrate their frustration. I don't believe that was portrayed in any of my previous post. Relax I am asking for advice not trying to offend you.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 26, 2005, 08:51:36 AM
umm zachary I find your tone a bit offensive.  As someone who didn't rush to mommy and daddy and ask them to pay for anything concerning my UG education, you might want to hold your horses.  The first thing I said was talk to your financial aid/college office.  Contrary to popular belief, most of them are not ogres trying to stick it to you, but rather would want to be supportive of their students--a week in they may have been able to refund your money.  You'll never know until you ASK.  And actually I would have said the same about your professors--if you talked to them, they might have been able to work with you (perhaps giving you extracredit assignments etc). 

Agitator,I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that I did not ask my Professors for favors. Actually it was quite the contary. I asked many of my Professors if they would give me other assignments to compensate for any bad grades that I received in their course. None of them cared about my problems, all of my Professors were white so obviously they would not really want to help me out. I am sorry that you took offense to my previous post, that was not my objective. You must have misinterpret what I was trying to argue. I was simply given you a senario that I am not fortunate to have at my exposure at this time in my life. I never implied that you were "Johnny", it was simply an example. I am not sure if you went (or go) to a mostly white undergrad. But it is very rare to find Professors who care about their students. Trust me agitator any senario that you can think of I have probably tried it. I tried to talk to the Bursars office you think that they cared about my problems. I go to a money hungry private school, they are in the game for the money. However, I can not look back on the past. That 2.72 is on my record for the rest of my life and there is little I can about it at this point. I must look to the future and that is what I am doing at this point. Since we are typing (not talking) I understand that it is somewhat difficult for you to determine my tone, however, when someone is trying to be rude while typing they usually use all caps to demonstrate their frustration. I don't believe that was portrayed in any of my previous post. Relax I am asking for advice not trying to offend you.
[/quote]

fair enough.  it is hard to discern tone on the net.  who are you getting to write you LORs?
Title: Seriously depressed, need advice!!
Post by: New Man on December 26, 2005, 11:30:19 AM
So I got my LSAT score and I am seriously depressed. I screwed up the RC. I missed -13, never had that happen before ever!! I aced the LG, and both LRS.

 I did not get the score I needed or hoped for and I have a bad GPA. What do I do now?
 
 I can retake in Feb but I am working a fulltime job and taking 21 credit hours next semester, I won't have any time to really study.

 I am soo depressed, I feel like a big dumb idiot, I really need some advice.

  I have already applied to 10 schools and paid the app fee's. If I only get into low schools should I just go or should I retake in June and apply next year.
  I do not really want to reapply as I am old 26, and want to get into law school asap.

  And what do I need to score to have a good shot at mid Tier-1's??

  Stats- LSAT 157
         GPA  2.5
         URM

  I need some good honest advice please!!
   Thanks,

        Seriously depressed and sobbing
Title: Re: Seriously depressed, need advice!!
Post by: Go_Blue26 on December 26, 2005, 11:33:27 AM
I need help too!  3.9/159, excellent UG, lots of good soft factors.  I'm retaking in February.  Where do I have a shot with my current score?  Where might I have a shot if I score a 164 or 165 next time?  Thanks.  Much love. - Jon
Title: Re: Seriously depressed, need advice!!
Post by: FCTorino on December 26, 2005, 11:42:45 AM
I think the best thing you could do now is to let your personal statement speak for itself.  I stronlgly suspect you studied hard..  Let them know you gave the test your all.  I bombed as well but am not going to spend another lifetime studying for the test.  I want to study Law and I will go whereever I am accepted. 
Title: Re: Seriously depressed, need advice!!
Post by: SWM on December 26, 2005, 11:50:03 AM
157 isn't all that bad - especially given your URM status.  Given your GPA, it won't get you into the T14; however, I'm pretty sure that some Tier 1 and almost all Tier 2 schools will give you a look.  Where did yo apply?  it might be time to consider adding some safeties to your list, or retaking the LSAT in February.  HTH.
Title: Re: Seriously depressed, need advice!!
Post by: Slow Blues on December 26, 2005, 04:46:46 PM
House & Go Blue:

While I agree w/SWM that you're probably not going to get into the Top 15 schools (well, Go Blue, with that 3.9 GPA, I would try for a few highly ranked schools, especially Berkeley, but I think schools in the 15-30 range are a good fit) you're looking good for quite a few Tier 1 schools, if not most Tier 1s. I would still try for a few reaches, since you never know, but your situation isn't nearly as dire as you make it out to be. Use LSAC's calculator to find some good schools; a good benchmark is that you're at their 25th, it's worth a shot.

A retake would be in order, like Lionking said, if you did a LOT worse than you practiced (i.e. if you were practicing at 160-162 then don't bother; if you were practicing at 170, then you should think about retaking). But with no spare time to re-up for the february LSAT, it's probably better that you work with the 157.

Hope I've helped and good luck to both of you.

Title: Re: Seriously depressed, need advice!!
Post by: New Man on December 26, 2005, 04:59:07 PM
lol, thanks. Go Blue, I think you have an excellent shot at alot of schools, your high gpa balances out your LSAT very well.

  I wasn't really prcticing in the 170's and with my busy schedule next semester I am going to just apply with my current score. If I get in no where I will retake in June and reapply next year. Thanks for all the good advice, hopefully I will get into a school I will enjoy.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 26, 2005, 07:37:31 PM
I have not figured out who will write my LORs. I am thinking about one of my professors from freshman year. Other than that I am not sure. I need to figure out if I qualify to get into law school before I think about the application. I will think about that when I get my LSAT score, lol.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: blk_reign on December 27, 2005, 09:20:24 AM
Zach your situation is indeed unique..i share the same sentiments as shae earlier on in this thread... and as a person that had to deal with medical setbacks in undergrad (had to really explain some withdrawals on my transcript due to them) I do believe that some weight is placed on the medical adversity that you had to overcome...if u have a kickass lsat score with that you'll be able to attend some pretty good institutions...
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on December 27, 2005, 10:45:46 AM
emphasis on kickass for the LSAT. Medical or not these adcomms still have reported averages. Potential is great but you have to bring somthing to the table for them. I would have to agree with gator and advise you work your GPA up. becuase if your LSAT isnt high enough, and you have already graduated. Then the biggest two factors in admissions have been blown for you and there is nothing you can do. Hate to be the pessimist but that GPA is going to hurt you. If you have to chance to improve it you need to capitalize. Especially if youre looking at the top 25.
Title: Re: WHERE CAN I GO?
Post by: zacharyl20 on December 27, 2005, 12:32:54 PM
Thank you blk and super for given me advice. Both of you provided thoughtful advice to me. Super, unfortunately I will not be able to stay in school longer than I have too. I need a break, finishing college in two years and a half is not easy so I really need a break from the academia so that I can rest my brain. I already knew that my GPA was going to hurt me, however, I am sure I will get in somewhere. While getting into a t14 would be nice, I really would like to go to Howard University. I always wanted to go to a HBCU and that would be very interesting. I think that my GPA is in their range. Anyway, if I stay in school another semester or two it would not have a significant impact on my GPA. The highest I would go is from a 3.1 to probably a 3.4, and that is if I get all A's which is not guaranteed. So going to school longer is useless to me and is not something that I am looking into.
Title: Re: Seriously depressed, need advice!!
Post by: jnc18 on December 27, 2005, 04:01:40 PM
FWIW, I've always used this for some hope.  Maybe you can too.
http://www.rasmusen.org/michigan/grid.htm

GoBlue is not in a bad situation at all with that GPA.

House, what is your list of schools and what are you looking for in particular in a school? 
Title: Re: where should i apply?
Post by: Slow Blues on December 27, 2005, 06:10:06 PM
Boston College, Boston Univ., Southern Cal, Miami, GW, Georgetown/NYU/Columbia/Northwestern as reaches, Cal-Hastings, Fordham, Brooklyn, maybe Tex-Austin?
Title: Re: where should i apply?
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 27, 2005, 06:20:50 PM
Boston College, Boston Univ., Southern Cal, Miami, GW, Georgetown/NYU/Columbia/Northwestern as reaches, Cal-Hastings, Fordham, Brooklyn, maybe Tex-Austin?

seems like a good start; I added a few suggestions.  just to categorize (as I'm avoiding studying for Torts).

super reaches
Chicago
Penn
GTown
NYU
Columbia
Northwestern
(I'd also add Cornell and Duke even though they are in crappy "cities")

reaches but within grasp
Emory
Wash U
BC
GW
Vandy
USC

good shot with excellent statements, LORs
BU
Miami
Hastings (should consider the LEOP program)
Fordham
Title: My chances
Post by: LAcreole on December 27, 2005, 09:59:30 PM
Ok I've been thinking of my chances with law school. I have a low gpa, yeah really messy 2.2 and 170 on lsat, i know i can get into Southern Law School but i was wondering what other schools would be ok to apply to considering my very low gpa. Thank You for your advice
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 27, 2005, 10:03:54 PM
what happened gpa wise?  any grade trend?   :'( o my people, such a good LSAT score.
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: LAcreole on December 27, 2005, 10:43:02 PM
First year I was doing good 3.2 but then I dropped bad, I had a death in the family, someone whom I was very close to and I just didn't stay focused at all. I won't use this as an excuse but I attended school in BR, (go JAGS), and I went through a lot experiencing racism and I know it may sound crazy but I never witnessed it until attending undergrad (Louisiana has some crazy white folks in BR). In any case I started high and kept dropping and by the time I was trying to pull up , it was time to graduate.
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: Slow Blues on December 28, 2005, 06:45:52 AM
Umm, I guess try for schools anywhere between 25-100? I'm not sure how some of the higher ranked schools will look at that GPA. But I feel like schools like Cincinnati and Marquette would take you. You have to cast your net really widely. I think you'll definitely get into some places.
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: justGem on December 28, 2005, 07:54:21 AM
I agree with slow blues. You should definately try for low tier 1 and any tier 2. Your screename implies URM so I'm guessing with that LSAT score you have a roll of the dice with any of those schools. 
Title: do i have a shot or should i give up?
Post by: nuffsaid on December 28, 2005, 11:34:50 AM
Hey everybody.  I was wondering where i should apply or if i should even apply.  I guess Tier 4's would be my only option, but do i even stand a chance there?

What i have going for me is a strong personal statement, letters of reference, experience behind me, strong undergrad school, minority status and special circumstance letter (illness for half my undergrad). 

But my GPA is a 2.9 and I my LSAT is 154. 
I'm writing again in Feb., but no guarantees this will go up so i'm using it as my official score for now. 

Any advice?
Is it worth the money to send out my applications?

P.S - I am from Toronto but would be moving to the States.

Thanks 
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: LAcreole on December 28, 2005, 12:10:02 PM
Thank you all. I'm really looking to go to Howard Uni. School of Law, but  I don't know if they will consider me b/c of my gpa. Should I retake my LSAT and try to get higher?
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 28, 2005, 12:13:59 PM
Thank you all. I'm really looking to go to Howard Uni. School of Law, but  I don't know if they will consider me b/c of my gpa. Should I retake my LSAT and try to get higher?

no you shouldn't retake.  do you have post college WE?
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: LAcreole on December 28, 2005, 12:42:58 PM
.
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: justGem on December 28, 2005, 01:35:49 PM
I think you have an excellent shot at Howard. You are WAAAAAY above their 75% LSAT and their 25% GPA is only 2.86.  As lonf as your PS and recs are in order, I'd say you definately have a shot.
Title: Re: do i have a shot or should i give up?
Post by: justGem on December 28, 2005, 01:37:07 PM
If you are URM, I'd say you have a shot at Tier 2. 
Title: Re: do i have a shot or should i give up?
Post by: LubedPumpkin on December 28, 2005, 01:40:15 PM
Hey everybody.  I was wondering where i should apply or if i should even apply.  I guess Tier 4's would be my only option, but do i even stand a chance there?

What i have going for me is a strong personal statement, letters of reference, experience behind me, strong undergrad school, minority status and special circumstance letter (illness for half my undergrad). 

But my GPA is a 2.9 and I my LSAT is 154. 
I'm writing again in Feb., but no guarantees this will go up so i'm using it as my official score for now. 

Any advice?
Is it worth the money to send out my applications?

P.S - I am from Toronto but would be moving to the States.

Thanks 

Yeah, sure. Check lawschoolnumbers.com or the LSAC website to see where you'd be close to acceptance. Don't give up if it's what you really want. Your LSAT isn't too bad and if you've got mad soft factors you've got a shot. No worries!
Title: Re: do i have a shot or should i give up?
Post by: justGem on December 28, 2005, 01:52:07 PM
You could also plug your numbers into Chiashu and see what the probability for acceptance is at the schools you are interested in.

http://www.chiashu.com/lsat.html
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: LAcreole on December 28, 2005, 02:08:21 PM
Would it be a good plus that one of my LOR is from a Howard alumni or does that even matter?
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 28, 2005, 02:29:52 PM
Would it be a good plus that one of my LOR is from a Howard alumni or does that even matter?
definitely a plus
Title: Re: do i have a shot or should i give up?
Post by: nuffsaid on December 29, 2005, 10:03:22 AM
Thanks for the reply's.  It has shed new light into my situation and helped me to keep hope alive. 

Take it easy. 
Title: Re: do i have a shot or should i give up?
Post by: JupiterSun Uhuru on December 29, 2005, 10:09:26 AM
I would apply to schools who don't have app fees.  How do you lose???

no fee online apps:
Dayton, Akron, Willamette, Drexel (new not ABA approved yet)Arkansas-Little Rock, Arkansas-Fayetteville, Western State and Cooley.
FREE APPs!!!
Title: Re: do i have a shot or should i give up?
Post by: Slow Blues on December 29, 2005, 10:19:15 AM
Thanks for the reply's.  It has shed new light into my situation and helped me to keep hope alive. 

Take it easy. 

Definitely. Giving up would be foolish. gemini is right; Tier 2 is looking good and I think you certainly get into some even better schools. Look at LSAC's guide on their site; I'd say you have a fighting chance at Arizona State, Miami, Marquette, DePaul, Santa Clara, Indiana, Penn State, South Carolina, Creighton, Duquesne, Wisconsin, maybe Seton Hall, Florida and Cincinnati, among others.
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: LAcreole on December 29, 2005, 01:53:28 PM
Thank you all once again for your advice. I have a question and I should know this but I am confuse on the Tier rank. I know law schools are ranked in T14 to Tier 4 or whatever, but what schools are actually in the low tier and tier 2? Also, I have everything from LOR to PS, but I haven't applied to any schools yet, b/c of being discouraged by my ugpa. I thought about grad school, but I was told law schools really don't look at that so it would be a waste of time. I'm just wondering is it to late in the game to send out apps. or should I wait Fall 06'?
Title: LSAT 165 GPA 3.5
Post by: hopeful07 on December 30, 2005, 12:26:26 AM
I have been hearing a lot about there only being 29 African Americans with or above a GPA 3.5 and a LSAT score of 165. Are those 29 students considered as the top Black applicants in the country? Or do law schools consider these students the same as Black applicants with 3.0 - 3.49 range with high LSAT scores or Black applicants with 160-164 LSAT with high GPAs...
Title: Re: LSAT 165 GPA 3.5
Post by: A. on December 30, 2005, 12:33:38 AM
This depends on what combo you have in mind.  Obviously a 4.0/180 would be more competitive than a 3.0/180.  But whether a 3.49/175 is more competitive than a 3.7/169 no one can really say.  But I think I'd rather be the latter.  Of your three categories, the last is, in my experience, the one law schools value least.
Title: Re: LSAT 165 GPA 3.5
Post by: Slow Blues on December 30, 2005, 12:47:08 PM
This depends on what combo you have in mind.  Obviously a 4.0/180 would be more competitive than a 3.0/180.  But whether a 3.49/175 is more competitive than a 3.7/169 no one can really say.  But I think I'd rather be the latter.  Of your three categories, the last is, in my experience, the one law schools value least.

Agreed. Although of the criteria, 3.5+ GPA or 165+ LSAT, I suspect you will see quite a few more blacks meeting the former criterion than the latter.
Title: Re: where should i apply?
Post by: A. on December 30, 2005, 07:44:03 PM
Boston College, Boston Univ., Southern Cal, Miami, GW, Georgetown/NYU/Columbia/Northwestern as reaches, Cal-Hastings, Fordham, Brooklyn, maybe Tex-Austin?

seems like a good start; I added a few suggestions.  just to categorize (as I'm avoiding studying for Torts).

super reaches
Chicago
Penn
GTown
NYU
Columbia
Northwestern
(I'd also add Cornell and Duke even though they are in crappy "cities")

reaches but within grasp
Emory
Wash U
BC
GW
Vandy
USC

good shot with excellent statements, LORs
BU
Miami
Hastings (should consider the LEOP program)
Fordham

I think this list is way too pessimistic.  I'd say bump each category down a notch or two (i.e. super reaches = reaches, reaches = target, good shot = autoadmit)
Title: Re: where should i apply?
Post by: One Step Ahead on December 30, 2005, 08:23:03 PM
Boston College, Boston Univ., Southern Cal, Miami, GW, Georgetown/NYU/Columbia/Northwestern as reaches, Cal-Hastings, Fordham, Brooklyn, maybe Tex-Austin?

seems like a good start; I added a few suggestions.  just to categorize (as I'm avoiding studying for Torts).

super reaches
Chicago
Penn
GTown
NYU
Columbia
Northwestern
(I'd also add Cornell and Duke even though they are in crappy "cities")

reaches but within grasp
Emory
Wash U
BC
GW
Vandy
USC

good shot with excellent statements, LORs
BU
Miami
Hastings (should consider the LEOP program)
Fordham

I think this list is way too pessimistic.  I'd say bump each category down a notch or two (i.e. super reaches = reaches, reaches = target, good shot = autoadmit)

I agree; I tend to be a cynic so my predictions are likely to be more modest than my esteemed colleague.  Nonetheless we both agree that you will be getting into some great schools.  Good luck and keep us posted.
Title: Re: do i have a shot or should i give up?
Post by: nuffsaid on December 31, 2005, 12:48:05 PM
Very useful websites. I didn't think that I would still be in  the running for many of these schools with the numbers that I have.  Hopefully the "soft factors" can help me out even a little bit more. 

Feeling better. 
Thanks all.
EZ

 :D
Title: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: marmars83 on January 02, 2006, 11:30:20 PM
Hi, I have a 3.15 from UC Berkeley and a 146 from the dec. 2005 lsat.  I am re-taking the lsat in feb. So what schools should I apply to.   I am a half black and iranian female. I worked an average of 40 hours a week while in school.  I had a great summer internship and did a lot of community service.  Thank you for your help!
Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: justGem on January 03, 2006, 09:09:13 AM
Perhaps you should base this on your diagnostics for the Dec LSAT.  A 146 doesn't leave many options, but if you have been preparing for the Feb LSAT and, based on diagnostics, expect a score increase, I would use that range to predict an average LSAT score and plug into Chiashe or the LSAC school finder to come of with a prospective list.
Title: Re: where should i apply?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on January 05, 2006, 12:27:02 PM
you said 3.84 last three semesters. What is your LSAC GPA? that is the end all. Strong LSAT though.
Title: Re: where should i apply?
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 05, 2006, 07:01:09 PM
I'd throw Michigan in there as a reach; it is a lot more holistic in its evaluation than, say, Chicago.

L19
Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: jnc18 on January 06, 2006, 09:29:53 PM
North Carolina Central
Michigan State
Gonzaga
Cleveland State
New York Law School
St John's
CUNY-Queens
Suffolk
Buffalo
Howard
Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: Anne Shirley on January 07, 2006, 10:48:50 AM
Marmars83,

What kind of prep did you do for December and what are you doing now?  My first diagnostic score was a 146 and I scored a 170 on the Dec. LSAT.  I took a Testmasters course (Scoreperfect since I'm in Texas) in April, then took as many diagnostic tests as I could.  Are you seeing a score increase?

Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: marmars83 on January 07, 2006, 10:00:48 PM
Thank you for all of your comments.  I am going to retake the test in feb.  I am still scoring the same as before. Between 150-156. However, I get really nervous when I take tests, thus my score of 146.  I am unable to take a prep course because I am broke.  But I do have the Kaplan course books, powerscore books, and other study books.  If anyone would like to look at my personal statement and give me some feed back that would be great.  I am going to start applying to all the schools within the next two weeks.  I have already applied to one.  Here is the list of some of the schools I am applying to:
Boalt-dream school
UC Hastings-dream school
Buffalo
Syracuse
Santa Clara
Loyola-Los Angeles
Pepperdine
Golden Gate
University of San Francisco
University of the Pacific McGeorge
Thomas Jefferson
And 3 other free tier 4 schools across the country.

Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: marmars83 on January 07, 2006, 10:02:14 PM
I am also applying to Howard and Gonzaga
Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: jnc18 on January 08, 2006, 08:31:15 PM
Are you still in school?
If you are, or less than a year out, my honest suggestion is to take a year and work.  Get some money together, take a prep course, then take the LSAT again in the fall.
Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: marmars83 on January 08, 2006, 11:04:35 PM
Thank you all for your comments.  I think I am going to take another year off so I can study for the LSAT.  Now I need to find a job.  Any suggestions?  I am looking for one in the Bay Area.   
Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: jnc18 on January 08, 2006, 11:18:21 PM
That's a great idea.  You say "another" year off, does that mean you've already taken one?

Anyway, you can always go for a paralegal gig with a law firm.  You never know what you'll get, sometimes it could be mindless work, sometimes it could be good experience.  Sometimes it's 9-5, sometimes it's long hours.  Fortunately there's almost always overtime.  In any case, keep in mind that it is only temporary and you are aiming for something bigger. :)
Title: Re: 3.15/146 What schools can I apply to?
Post by: marmars83 on January 09, 2006, 10:22:01 AM
Thank you so much for the advice and the link.  I just registered to volunteer at the event. I am going to post my resume on craigslist in order to find a job at a law firm.  Thank you again!!!
Title: Should I retake?
Post by: Go_Blue26 on January 10, 2006, 09:43:53 PM
It's decision time.  I need to decide whether or not to retake the LSAT in February.  I have to make this decision by January 13th.

Right now, I have a 159 and a 3.9.  Ivy League school.  Lots of good EC's, 2 years WE. 

Schools: UVA, Duke, UNC, GTown, Vanderbilt, Texas

Do I have a shot at any of these schools as things currently stand?  What would I need to score on a February retake to significantly boost my chances?

I've been taking practice tests and missing around 14 questions.  I think that would put me in the 163-166 range, even on a harsh scale.  My only worry is that I'll get a really hard logic game, and end up with a score even lower than where I currently stand.

Should I just let it go, and hope for the best?  If my current stats don't get me into anywhere good, I can always spend a year at a lower ranked school (I'm applying to lots of schools where my 159 is right on the median), and attempt to transfer up.

Any input is truly appreciated.  I have to make this decision right away.  Thanks.

John
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: almuhajaba on January 10, 2006, 09:51:32 PM
It's decision time.  I need to decide whether or not to retake the LSAT in February.  I have to make this decision by January 13th.

Right now, I have a 159 and a 3.9.  Ivy League school.  Lots of good EC's, 2 years WE. 

Schools: UVA, Duke, UNC, GTown, Vanderbilt, Texas

Do I have a shot at any of these schools as things currently stand?  What would I need to score on a February retake to significantly boost my chances?

I've been taking practice tests and missing around 14 questions.  I think that would put me in the 163-166 range, even on a harsh scale.  My only worry is that I'll get a really hard logic game, and end up with a score even lower than where I currently stand.

Should I just let it go, and hope for the best?  If my current stats don't get me into anywhere good, I can always spend a year at a lower ranked school (I'm applying to lots of schools where my 159 is right on the median), and attempt to transfer up.

Any input is truly appreciated.  I have to make this decision right away.  Thanks.

John


re-take. It's a pain in the neck, but it will work out in the end. Re-take. Re-take RE-TAKE!!!

I did it, and I'm really glad that I did. I ended up with a 159, and since I was looking at top schools, I knew I didn't want to risk it with a score that's much lower than the 25th%ile. Many schools will take the higher score (or so they say...see my LSN profile for a list of liars in my case...)

RE-TAKE!!!!
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: A. on January 10, 2006, 09:56:12 PM
You're applying this cycle?  I doubt your score will be in early enough for it to make much of a difference.  If you've been rejected, they're not going to reconsider.  It might help you on waitlists.  You should probably get into GULC and Vandy, maybe Duke.  If you want to go any higher, you should probably sit out a year.
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: Go_Blue26 on January 10, 2006, 10:11:09 PM
I'm working 50+ hours per week right now, and about to start working even more over the next few weeks.  That's been the whole problem all along.

If I found a way to study over the next 6 months, I think I could post a reputable score in June.  That way, if I wasn't satisfied with any of my acceptances, I could simply reapply next year.

Or, I can retake in February and pray for the best. I'm really confused.   
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: A. on January 10, 2006, 10:20:12 PM
I think the June option sounds better.  See where your current score gets you, and if you're not satisfied, retake in June.  If you retake in February, not only might it not help you get into better schools, but you might score lower than you would on the June test and hurt your reapplication chances next year.
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: Go_Blue26 on January 10, 2006, 10:27:01 PM
I think that's my best option.  As it stands, I'd be working late on the day before the LSAT, rush home, go to sleep, wake up, and drive 2 hours to the closest available test center.  Doesn't seem like a good strategy.

I took the LSAT cold in December.  I have already improved to around 163-166.  I think I can solidify this by June.  I may even take a class if my work schedule ever slows down.

With my 159/3.9, what top 20 schools might give me a shot?  Any chance at Virginia? 

Also, I wrote an addendum about my LSAT score as it relates to my SAT score and my performance in college.  Care to read it? 
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: A. on January 10, 2006, 10:32:09 PM
I think you have a good shot at UVA, but I cannot say with any certainty.  I'm not good with addenda, but I'll look at it if you PM it to me.
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: Slow Blues on January 11, 2006, 08:05:43 AM
I'd agree w/Alcibiades. Would you consider applying to some slightly lower-ranked schools in order to start law school in 2006 and not 2007? I think you should get into at least one of the schools to which you applied. I'd say you were good for Berkeley, maybe Notre Dame, Fordham and USC, BC/BU and GW are probable. I would definitely think about Emory.

I'll read the addendum as well.
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: Ed on January 11, 2006, 09:38:54 AM
I too will read the addendum.

However, I'm curious about why you think you need it so. Unless you are trying to go to a T5 school, you are numerically competitive for several T14s already. You have a 3.9, summa cum laude GPA from an Ivy League School! That is some serious evidence for your intellectual fitness. Are you sure the addendum will be viewed as a sign of strength and not weakness? If you have any doubts, then my advice is to have more confidence in your ECs and that dominate academic performance.

If you want to increase your LSAT to help with merit scholarships, then you will need a big increase to signifcantly change your station with respect to those, especially if the school averages scores. All that prep for the LSAT will require a big and costly investment of your time and it may not help you gain much more of an edge on the competition.

You should get into several T14s with your numbers if you had slightly above average ECs and your apps were done well. My advice is go to one of those T14s. Study like big money is on the line for every grade. Break off your competitors (fellow classmates) academically. Get on a journal staff. Network like a pro. And, you will get the job you want after the JD.

Superior law school names only open doors—superior skills allow you kick them bad boys down! That 3.9 shows superior skills my friend...superior skills indeed.
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: One Step Ahead on January 11, 2006, 10:21:36 AM
It's decision time.  I need to decide whether or not to retake the LSAT in February.  I have to make this decision by January 13th.

Right now, I have a 159 and a 3.9.  Ivy League school.  Lots of good EC's, 2 years WE. 

Schools: UVA, Duke, UNC, GTown, Vanderbilt, Texas

Do I have a shot at any of these schools as things currently stand?  What would I need to score on a February retake to significantly boost my chances?

I've been taking practice tests and missing around 14 questions.  I think that would put me in the 163-166 range, even on a harsh scale.  My only worry is that I'll get a really hard logic game, and end up with a score even lower than where I currently stand.

Should I just let it go, and hope for the best?  If my current stats don't get me into anywhere good, I can always spend a year at a lower ranked school (I'm applying to lots of schools where my 159 is right on the median), and attempt to transfer up.

Any input is truly appreciated.  I have to make this decision right away.  Thanks.

John

John, I'd shoot apps as well to Columbia, Chicago, and NYU for the reasons Max just said.  I might even try H,Y,S if you can spare the money--you have an outside shot especially if standardized tests tend to underestimate your performance.
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: Go_Blue26 on January 11, 2006, 11:12:32 AM
Thanks for all the advice guys.  I wrote the addendum because my SAT score was - likewise - below the median for my undergraduate school, but I still managed to graduate in the top 5% of my class.

I'm just going to see what pans out.  The simple truth of the matter is that I screwed myself on the LSAT.  If I'd just had time to study, I would have probably been able to score a few points higher...  162...163... which would have - seemingly - made a huge difference.

But you take your knocks and you learn.  I'll figure something out.

I have no aspirations for YHS.  Do I think I could do well there in law school?  Yes.  Do I think that what I've accomplished thus far - LSAT score aside - is evidence of that fact?  Yes.  But do I think I'd get accepted?  No. 

Columbia and NYU aren't really options because the cost of living in NYC is so high.

In fact, most of the schools that I'm targeting are in areas where the COL is comparatively low.  Charlottesville, Nashville, Chapel Hill, Austin.  I'm only applying to GTown and GW because I have decent odds PT.

Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: One Step Ahead on January 11, 2006, 12:08:49 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys.  I wrote the addendum because my SAT score was - likewise - below the median for my undergraduate school, but I still managed to graduate in the top 5% of my class.

I'm just going to see what pans out.  The simple truth of the matter is that I screwed myself on the LSAT.  If I'd just had time to study, I would have probably been able to score a few points higher...  162...163... which would have - seemingly - made a huge difference.

But you take your knocks and you learn.  I'll figure something out.

I have no aspirations for YHS.  Do I think I could do well there in law school?  Yes.  Do I think that what I've accomplished thus far - LSAT score aside - is evidence of that fact?  Yes.  But do I think I'd get accepted?  No. 

Columbia and NYU aren't really options because the cost of living in NYC is so high.

In fact, most of the schools that I'm targeting are in areas where the COL is comparatively low.  Charlottesville, Nashville, Chapel Hill, Austin.  I'm only applying to GTown and GW because I have decent odds PT.



Blue I think you have a shot at being accepted at HYS--enough of one to gamble the $210 to apply--worst case they say no.  Chicago is relatively affordable so even if you are not willing to pay for the cost of living in NYC you should at least think about Chi-town
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on January 11, 2006, 01:38:25 PM
I got a lower LSAT than that with a similar GPA and we and got UVA. Its not improbable.
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: Go_Blue26 on January 11, 2006, 04:00:01 PM
Even if I do get into a good school, I have no idea how I'll pay for it.  I doubt I have good enough credit to get private loans.  Which means I'd be limited to a maximum of 18,500 (??) in federally subsidized loans. 

How are you guys paying for school??
Title: Re: My chances
Post by: lex19 on January 12, 2006, 03:29:16 PM
here's my opinion about your situation and it's only from what i've seen, experienced and heard from others.....

1. I think it would best if you scrapped the rec from the howard alum. If anything i would use it for Howard but from what I'm told schools want rec from prof. and this could only help your gpa situation if it's an outstanding one at that. I had an alum from a school write me an additional letter along with the dean of students and it did didly squat, no WL just DING.....unless a close relative is on the board of trustees or donating millions a rec outside of a prof or employer if you've been out of school for 5+ years is the best route in my opinion

2. You said that you started out well in undergrad and then dipped off due to justifiable circumstances and then raised your grades at the end, this is great and you need to justify it with an addendum. please write an adendum, they're supposed to be short and sweet so you won't have time or room to become whiny or make it seem like you're coping out and making excuses

3. I think that your experience in BR would be perfect for a diversity/adversity statement which so many school give an option for students to submit. i chose to combine my ps & diversity statement into one big "lex through the years" essay b/c i felt it was necessary for schools that didn't require a diversity statement to know certain things about me.

4. Have you been out of undergrad for 4 years working for southern or were you working for them during school? if so this shows a lot for you grades and can be added, if not kudos for you b/c it was prolly a great experience and shows commitment, blah blah blah

5. If doing a graduate program b/t now and entering law school is something you would like to do and would enjoy, i'd say go for it and do the damn thing. Although they only favor graduate performance so much i think since you're in abetter state of mind and place it'll show that you can perform academically. if i was you i would do it, i feel like it will open more doors at the top for you

6. as far as schools to apply to, take a look at the lsac website under the abab law school guide, most schools (except t14) have a chart (need adobe) that shows how many admits they take with certain lsat & gpa. if a certain school admitted someone with your numbers then i think thats a school that you have a decent chance at. even if it's only one person, b/c hey you never know right??? also i don't know your financial situation but if you can apply to as many schools as possible, again it's a you never know what could happen situation and someone is going to need that 170 for numbers and the hellish usa news rankings

7. as for howard goes i think you have a great chance of getting in, and their civil rights program is dope for obvious reasons

8. apply as early as you can, ie. as soon as schools start accepting apps, with so many schools having rolling admissions it only helps especially with the gpa factor.

9. make sure your essays are thorough and do the optionals, get a team together of 3 or 4 individuals who are essay nazis in every way....but remember not to edit so much that it's no longer your work.

okay good luck!!!!!!

ps. go to the applicantion boards and ask away there's way more ppl there that have tons of advice than blsd....although we do provide the best  :D ;D ;) jk, jk


Title: Re: My chances
Post by: LAcreole on January 12, 2006, 05:10:19 PM
thanks a lot , that was sound information that i really needed. I was just going to apply to two schools b/c i didn't think i had a shot at any others. I'm going to take your advice and another blsd member and do some research on a lot these law schools. Thanks again
Title: Should I retake in June and wait til 07?
Post by: stickman on January 12, 2006, 05:56:05 PM
Hi Im a newbie to the board, 156 LSAT, 2.2 GPA  at a top 25 university in California.  I experienced some
hardships the last two years of my undergrad career and my GPA took a dive as a result.  I am a URM, male, 25 yrs. old(half-AA, half puerto-rican)  do u think I have a chance at a tier 3 or 4 in California?  Appreciate the help!
Title: Re: Should I retake in June and wait til 07?
Post by: Ed on January 12, 2006, 06:05:42 PM
Hi Im a newbie to the board, 156 LSAT, 2.2 GPA  at a top 25 university in California.  I experienced some
hardships the last two years of my undergrad career and my GPA took a dive as a result.  I am a URM, male, 25 yrs. old(half-AA, half puerto-rican)  do u think I have a chance at a tier 3 or 4 in California?  Appreciate the help!

This is tough to answer without more info about your ECs and work experience (these makeup something I like to call real world GPA, RWGPA) and your major in school.

However, if you haven't really been doing something strong since school, you should retake if your prep allows you to test in the high 160s or better on a few practice exams by mid-May.

Which CA schools are you thinking about?
Title: Re: Should I retake in June and wait til 07?
Post by: stickman on January 12, 2006, 06:19:31 PM
major at UCLA was Political Science,  I graduated in 04, been splitting time between real estate (sales license in 99, brokers license in June 05)  and working in a private firm dealing primarily in securities and contracts.  Interested in Chapman, Southwestern, Loyola, Pepperdine, Dream schools are USC UCLA San DIego
Title: Re: Should I retake in June and wait til 07?
Post by: Ed on January 12, 2006, 06:26:54 PM
Stickman:

A 2.2 in Poli Sci from UCLA is good but, you need to get that LSAT up. I'm just being real with you. I would invest big in LSAT prep for June. Do you think you can break a 170? If you can, your bargaining power would go up so high that you might squeeze into a T1 with a great app.
Title: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: Pericles on January 20, 2006, 12:07:50 PM
Just got an invitatin to apply to Stanford. Should I take a shot at Palo Alto this late in the game with 3.15/166 (black male)? Or is this just an attempt to bank another $75 from the West Coast King?

Title: Re: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: Slow Blues on January 20, 2006, 12:16:02 PM
I got an invite too. If I wasn't already locked in, I would've given Stanford a twirl and my numbers are, for all intents and purposes, identical to yours. I say apply.
Title: Re: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: lex19 on January 20, 2006, 01:16:54 PM
DO IT!!, especially if it won't throw a wrench in your pockets
Title: Re: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on January 20, 2006, 02:33:53 PM
If you'd really attend and got the cheese....no reason not to.
Title: Re: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: Lawprofessor on January 20, 2006, 07:59:49 PM
what if they have no intention of accepting him?
Title: Re: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: Slow Blues on January 22, 2006, 01:45:49 PM
Too pessimistic an assessment.

As I recall from his stats, the protagonist is a black male, 3.1, 166. I think he has a decent shot at Stanford.
Title: Re: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: queencruella on January 22, 2006, 02:30:02 PM
Just got an invitatin to apply to Stanford. Should I take a shot at Palo Alto this late in the game with 3.15/166 (black male)? Or is this just an attempt to bank another $75 from the West Coast King?



Why not? I was lured into applying to Harvard with highly unimpressive stats and am convinced that there was a better use of my $75, but I'll never know for sure if I don't try. 
Title: Re: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: John Galt on January 22, 2006, 03:26:23 PM
You should try. Annabel lee didn't think she had a chance at Stanford. Applied after I made her and was accepted 3 weeks after she applied. There are no cutoffs, so I think if you put together a compelling application you can get accepted.

One word of caution though. Judging from LSN, it seems as if Stanford really is looking for people with super high GPAs, so don't get your hopes up. Just apply and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: Should I Walk The Plank?
Post by: Pericles on January 23, 2006, 09:13:12 AM
Thanks for all of the advice. I've decided to go ahead and apply. John, what were Annabel's stats? Also, do you use that AIM account you published on LSN, I'd like to ask you a few questions.
Title: Re: Should I retake?
Post by: AlienVisitor on January 24, 2006, 03:29:16 PM
Even if I do get into a good school, I have no idea how I'll pay for it.  I doubt I have good enough credit to get private loans.  Which means I'd be limited to a maximum of 18,500 (??) in federally subsidized loans. 

How are you guys paying for school??

Think of Law School as an investment and not an expense (I'm an accountant so bear with me). $150k in loans is no where close to your earning potential of 5 yrs after law school. I had a much lower GPA and lower LSAT and still applied to schools, not because of the rankings per se, but for where I see myself attending. I got some pleasant surprises and some not so pleasant rejections but suffice to say that come the end of spring I will be deciding between UVA, Texas and GWU or deferring depending on some family matters. You only need to have faith to move mountains!!
Title: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: crazy8 on January 27, 2006, 03:06:53 PM
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=mdlaw

Please check out my LSN page and help me before I go insane!!!
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: robocop on January 27, 2006, 03:09:43 PM
I think that with the 156 and EC's alone you have a pretty good shot at a lot of the schools you applied to, but with the URM status, you should have a very good shot at even some of the tier 1s.

I say shoot for the stars, if it isnt too late throw a couple of top 10s in there.
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: crazy8 on January 27, 2006, 03:15:38 PM
Are you serious?  I'm thinking I have no chance in hell at these schools!  What evidence (don't mean to sound lawyer-like) do you have that I will get in?  Did you see my GPA?!  I've been obsessed with the folks who have been getting into the schools I apply to, and they have numbers WAY higher than mine!
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: Ed on January 27, 2006, 03:38:34 PM
crazy8:

Unless you believe, based on good evidence and your research, that you would probably not do well at a T10 or can't afford to apply (and can't get waivers), then apply to those T10 law school communities you think you would like. T10 schools are power schools. The educational quality at these schools is not what makes them worth the fight for a seat. The network these schools plug you into is what makes them worth the fight.

Stratospheric numbers seal deals and take the decisions out of the adcomms hands for most URMs.

Inspiring stories and lives keep URM applicants sans stratospheric numbers on the table and enable an adcomm who believes in the applicant to fight for him or her.

I worked in an admission office for one of the most selective undergraduate institutions in the world and fought for students I believed in for a living. I got dozens in who thought they never had a chance. And I, like some on this Board, have good friends who sit on or who have sat on adcomms. I cannot stress enough that stratospheric numbers are sufficient but not necessary for getting into a T10 school.

Do you believe you can kick some butt at a T10? Do you think you deserve it? If either one of your answers to those questions is no, then don't apply to them. However, if your answer is yes to each question, your PS fascinates (not bores), your ambitions are noble, and you had some LOR writers who really believed in you and showed this in their letters, there are T10 seats for people like you that don't get advertised to the masses.

APPLY...APPLY...APPLY!

Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: crazy8 on January 27, 2006, 03:43:25 PM
Mystery,

Thanks for the great advice.  At this late stage in the game, I'm afraid to apply anywhere else (and if you saw the amt. of schools I applied to...it took my entire life savings).  I'm hoping that my application was strong enough for someone to say yes, and I'm so ready to be a lawyer, that I'll take a nod from any of those schools, and work my way up the ladder if needs be.  I wish I would have found this thing before I sent my apps. out.  Would love to talk to you a bit more and wouldn't mind sharing my personal statement with you so you could give me your advice on what a former ad comm. member would think of it.
Title: Questions, Questions
Post by: WarrenG on January 27, 2006, 07:29:37 PM
1) 166/3.9, good EC, International Student, what are my chances at Harvard, Columbia and NYU
2) If I get in what are my chances of getting a deferral for financial reasons
3) If I don't get in would it be better (IYO) to take a year off, get some work experience, boost my LSAT and reapply or gonna to a slightly lower ranked school and try to transfer.

Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: crazy8 on January 27, 2006, 08:30:56 PM
1) 166/3.9, good EC, International Student, what are my chances at Harvard, Columbia and NYU
2) If I get in what are my chances of getting a deferral for financial reasons
3) If I don't get in would it be better (IYO) to take a year off, get some work experience, boost my LSAT and reapply or gonna to a slightly lower ranked school and try to transfer.



Based on the advice I've been given, 1)I think you'll be fine as long as you don't jack up the rest of your apps.  2) Don't know how the schools work when it comes to granting deferrals 3) It all depends on how badly you want to be in law school.  If waiting a year won't be hell for you, then wait.  If you think you could go somewhere else and kick a$$ your first year,then don't wait.
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: Fidelio on January 27, 2006, 08:37:48 PM
Given that you have applied to alot of PT programs you have a terrific shot at those. 
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: crazy8 on January 28, 2006, 12:42:50 AM
Given that you have applied to alot of PT programs you have a terrific shot at those. 

Thanks for the advice!  Please keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: Slow Blues on January 28, 2006, 07:30:31 AM
I would tend to agree with Mystery and others. I think you look pretty good for most of those schools on your list. Your work experience will be a plus; I've read that there will be less emphasis placed on your GPA (and more on your work history) the further you are removed from undergrad.

I note you applied to strictly East Coast schools. Was that on purpose?
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: Slow Blues on January 28, 2006, 07:50:52 AM
I think your LSAT and GPA are fine as is to get into those schools. Not sure about the deferrals though.
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: crazy8 on January 28, 2006, 08:34:33 AM
Yes, I'm not familiar with West Coast schools.  Any ideas on some west coast schools?  I mean, I'm so close to the deadlines at this point, but curious to what schools would be up my alley on the west side.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: jeb240 on January 28, 2006, 08:50:46 AM
I think it depends on what else there is in addition to your numbers.  I do not know ho much I stand as a testimony, but I think my success and Slow Blues' being on one end and John Galt's being on the other should probably give you some indication.  But, at the same time, the stuff going on behind our numbers for all of us seems to be different -- by behing our numbers, I mean the soft factors AS WELL AS things that have made/determined our numbers.

As far as deferrals, I think a lot of schools are hard about giving them unless you have a compelling reason -- i.e. you are doing something better.  I do not know that they count earning money as doing something better.  I'm assuming by financial reasons you meant to make money to pay for law school, but I don't imagine you'd be making so much in a year that it would be of much use to you.  I mean, the more money you are making/have in savings, the less money the school will give to you in grants and loans to attend.  So taking off time to save up money (again, assuming that's what you meant) would probably just hurt you to get the aid you want.  AT THE SAME TIME, Harvard is not known for it's non need-based scholarship's, while looking at this board you can see that is not at all the case for Columbia and NYU.  Still moreover, I think Columbia is widely regarded as very nice about granting deferrals.  So, of course I do not know what you mean by financial reasons, but I think you have a pretty good shot at these schools and, you know what, being a URM with such strong numbers, I would hardly be surprised if they weren't happy to lock you in for a year later and let you go off and do what you want for that year.

I don't see you not getting into at least one of the 3, assuming you can put together a decent application package.  But if you don't get into a top 5 school, I imagine the next 5 would all be waiting at your doorstep like courting lovers.  But if for some reason you will only consider HC and N, then I guess that's your call -- but also realize that, with the exception of H (which because of the power of its name is in a class all by itself, even above Yale), the opportunities that you will get, depeding on what you want to do of course, from this super top school or that super top school, will most likely not differ greatly.  You'll have great choices (honestly, I didn't think I would and now I can only wish that May were further away because I have no idea how I'm going to decided  [and I still haven't heard from everywhere!]), and I imagine that, when it comes down to it, you'll be picking based on quality of life factors or money more than anything else.

Good luck (sorry for being so wordy).
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: WarrenG on January 28, 2006, 03:06:28 PM
Thanks for the opinions and any other responses would be appreciated.  Do you really think I have a shot at Harvard, I thought the 166 might take me out of the running there. 
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on January 28, 2006, 03:12:58 PM
Thanks for the opinions and any other responses would be appreciated.  Do you really think I have a shot at Harvard, I thought the 166 might take me out of the running there. 

People have been accepted with lower. And people have been rejected with higher. You should apply, there are very few black applicants who have 3.5+ GPAs and 165+ LSATs. Being one puts you in a good position at every school, including HYS.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: Fidelio on January 28, 2006, 03:58:50 PM
You got a good chance for Colombia and NYU. 
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on January 28, 2006, 05:02:32 PM
You're definitely in at all of those schools.  The only thing that would keep you out of HLS is an *absolutely terrible* essay.  Good luck! :)
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on January 29, 2006, 10:41:21 AM
Crazy, unfortunately I think you got some inaccurate advice from robocop.  I wouldn't say that you have a great shot at all of those schools (i.e. Georgetown, Columbia, GWU.)  I mean, your LSAT isn't that problematic, but the sub-3.0 GPA is what gets you in trouble here.  Unless you have absolutely amazing extras, even the supposed URM LSAT boost is unlikely to get you in there.  If you've already applied, cool.  But I wouldn't have done it unless I had fee waivers.

On the other hand, most of your schools are right in range, esp. if you wrote excellent essays.  You might not get into your top choice school, but you will get into law school.  You have a decent combo of reaches, targets, and safeties.
Title: Re: ADVICE---What Are My Chances?
Post by: crazy8 on January 29, 2006, 10:49:15 AM
Thanks for the advice valentine!  That's why I want an array of opinions so I can figure out exactly where I stand.  I did play a D-1 sport while in college and held a part time job most of the time, and wrote about that in my personal statement as part of the reason for my low LSAT score.  Hoping somone will take that into consideration.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: angmill08 on January 29, 2006, 02:21:42 PM
I think financial reasons are a pretty good excuse for a deferral request. It varies school to school though, you'd have to speak directly to the admissions office of wherever you get in. Private schools know that fed. loans + EFC still fall short of expenses for a year of school, so if the school wants you, I think they'll understand that you need to save more $$ before attending. Unless they have a policy against deferrals -- some highly competative schools might -- I bet they'll let you defer to save $$.
Title: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: WarrenG on January 30, 2006, 10:22:43 AM
How much is it, anyone know or willing to guess.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: intent06 on January 30, 2006, 10:24:23 AM
I was unaware that such a boost existed.  Someone please drop some knowledge. Im curious.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Slow Blues on January 30, 2006, 10:48:40 AM
I think it's in Richard Montauk's guide that African Americans get an unofficial 5-7 point (or something like that) "boost" in their LSAT score when their application is in consideration. Native Americans get 7-10 and Hispanics get 3-5. So, a black candidate with a 3.5/165 would be treated like a 3.5/172. I won't comment on the veracity of all this, but this is the basis of the "boost".
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: bass on January 30, 2006, 10:53:53 AM
there is a urm that posts under eclair...the urm boosts gives her approximately 185-188 on her lsat.

that's amazing.

auto-admit, I'd say, by any metric.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: WarrenG on January 30, 2006, 11:16:06 AM
That much of a boost?!?!
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: WarrenG on January 30, 2006, 01:36:55 PM
Do they boost GPA too?  The LSAT makes some sense because URMs score lower on the test in an almost systematic fashion (some suggest cultural bias as the culprit).
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 30, 2006, 05:52:46 PM
DAMN, I knew I should've put Black instead of Puerto Rican.  Dah well.

Anna Ivey says that Blacks get as much as 10 points as a boost on the LSAT.  She said you get little to no such boost for the GPA. 

I wish we got boosts for everything (Black +10, Hispanic +7, Scholarship +5).  Shoot, I'd be at 180 in no time!!!
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: WarrenG on January 30, 2006, 06:25:50 PM
Anna Ivey?
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 30, 2006, 06:29:58 PM
Former Dean of Admissions at University of Chicago Law School, wrote a book on the admissions process.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: WarrenG on January 30, 2006, 06:31:54 PM
Thanks for the (generally positive) feedback, I'm feeling better now.  Do you think being an international student gives me much of an edge, seems like a vanity category but Harvard seems quite proud of those.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on January 30, 2006, 07:20:39 PM
Thanks for the (generally positive) feedback, I'm feeling better now.  Do you think being an international student gives me much of an edge, seems like a vanity category but Harvard seems quite proud of those.

I don't think it is going to make much a difference in your case since you're probably just in, but it's a nice extra thing to throw in there...
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on January 30, 2006, 09:26:27 PM
I just read part of ch. 1 on Amazon.  Damn I wish I had read this book before I applied!
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 30, 2006, 09:30:01 PM
Me too.  Shame.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: AH on January 30, 2006, 11:02:39 PM
Not sure how related this is (or how true), but I have heard certain UGs (the ones famous for grade deflation) get a gpa boost as well.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on January 31, 2006, 08:23:10 AM
What school is this?  Hope mine falls into this category, because I sure could use a boost! ;)
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: AH on January 31, 2006, 08:27:18 AM
They said it for my UG (W&M), but there seems to be quite a list of schools that may fall under this category.  Youusually know if your school deflates grades.

I am really not sure how true this is though or if it is more urban legend than anything.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on January 31, 2006, 08:53:52 AM
I've heard that URMs get boosted however many points they need to get them to 180. So like if your score is 148, you get 32 pts.

 :D
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 31, 2006, 09:54:29 AM
I've heard that URMs get boosted however many points they need to get them to 180. So like if your score is 148, you get 32 pts.

 :D

LOL I know!

I also heard that all Black applicants to any T14 school get in automatically no matter what their numbers are -- and then the schools have White applicants act like they're Black just so they can reject them and say, "See, we don't accept just any Black applicant."  JP.

lacoste
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on January 31, 2006, 09:59:54 AM
JP,

don't respond to the ignorance.  He/She is just upset that a minority may get in with a lower GPA/LSAT score than him/her, and still graduate higher in their class than they do.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on January 31, 2006, 10:12:22 AM
I've heard that URMs get boosted however many points they need to get them to 180. So like if your score is 148, you get 32 pts.

 :D

LOL I know!

I also heard that all Black applicants to any T14 school get in automatically no matter what their numbers are -- and then the schools have White applicants act like they're Black just so they can reject them and say, "See, we don't accept just any Black applicant."  JP.

lacoste
Indeed, that is correct, Lacoste. Here's another little known fact: T14 schools guarantee top 10% status to URMs. All you have to do is show up for class and your grades will be inflated automatically. In fact, for every point a URM falls short of a perfect GPA, a white student's GPA is decreased accordingly so the points can be tacked on to the URM's.

Shhh, keep it quiet. URMs have it made.

 :D
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on January 31, 2006, 10:20:11 AM
Ok I couldn't resist:

Damn,

Sounds to me like you're mad because you already know how awful you're going to do in law school, and how you'll be sinking in debt with no job to pay off your law school loans.  All because those damn black people are taking all the jobs!  ;D  Get a life petit, you sound like the common disgruntled white man/woman.  I thought it was black folks who usually complain about getting the short end of the stick.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: 2Lacoste on January 31, 2006, 10:25:05 AM
LOL, nobody flip out on me!

My mocking comments are actually directed at people who complain about AA based on inane rumors and misinformation.  I don't wanna start an AA flame war when I'm usually on the other side of it all!!!  I'm joking people!!!  (I can't account for petit's motivations, though, lol).

lacoste
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on January 31, 2006, 11:13:12 AM
Ok I couldn't resist:

Damn,

Sounds to me like you're mad because you already know how awful you're going to do in law school, and how you'll be sinking in debt with no job to pay off your law school loans.  All because those damn black people are taking all the jobs!  ;D  Get a life petit, you sound like the common disgruntled white man/woman.  I thought it was black folks who usually complain about getting the short end of the stick.
Oh my God you lamebrain, get a sense of humor and then get a job because law school isn't meant for you if you couldn't see through my comments. COME ON, Ray Charles could have seen that my comments weren't serious. I'm black and tired of bottomfeeders whining about AA so I mess with them by creating OBVIOUSLY phony "stats" and "facts."

DUH.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: AH on January 31, 2006, 11:14:06 AM
I thought that's wha all the :D were about?
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: tmc123 on January 31, 2006, 11:30:43 AM
Ok I couldn't resist:

Damn,

Sounds to me like you're mad because you already know how awful you're going to do in law school, and how you'll be sinking in debt with no job to pay off your law school loans.  All because those damn black people are taking all the jobs!  ;D  Get a life petit, you sound like the common disgruntled white man/woman.  I thought it was black folks who usually complain about getting the short end of the stick.

Here is an article in the from the Stanford Law Review by a UCLA professor that argues AA in Law School actually hurts Black applicants because they receive poorer grades, are less likely to pass the bar, and are more likely to leave law school.  He argues that these bad side effects of AA actually shrink rather than expand the number of black lawyers.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/sander/Systemic/final/SanderFINAL.pdf

Conclusions:

1. Black students as a whole are at a substantial academic disadvantage when they attend schools that used preferences to admit them.292 As a consequence, they perform poorly as a group throughout law school. The median GPA of all black students at the end of the first year of law school lies roughly at the sixth percentile of the white grade distribution.

2. The clustering of black students near the bottom of the grade distribution produces substantially higher attrition rates. Entering black law students are 135% more likely than white students to not get a law degree.

3. Generally low grades among blacks have even larger effects on bar performance. Blacks are nearly six times as likely as whites to not pass state bar exams after multiple attempts. The difference, again, is mostly attributable to preferences. Half of the black-white bar passage gap is traceable to the effects of blacks with good credentials getting low grades at higher-prestige schools

4. When blacks pass the bar and enter the job market, they encounter a generally positive climate. Blacks earn 6% to 9% more early in their careers than do whites seeking similar jobs with similar credentials, presumably because many employers (including government employers) pursue moderate racial preferences in hiring. Nonetheless, affirmative action by schools hurts blacks in the job market more than it helps. The data in Part VII suggests that employers weigh law school grades far more heavily in evaluating job candidates than most legal academics have assumed. Law school racial preferences give blacks fancier degrees, but also systematically lower their GPAs. For at least two-thirds of black law graduates, the harm preferences do to a student’s grades greatly outweighs the benefit derived from the more prestigious degree.

5. In 2001, about 86% of all black students who attended accredited American law schools would have been eligible for admission at one or more law schools in the total absence of racial preferences. System-wide, racial preferences expand the pool of blacks in law school by only 14%. These 14%—about five to six hundred students admitted to low-prestige schools—have very low academic credentials and face long odds against becoming lawyers. Only a fifth of this group finishes law school and passes the bar on their first attempt; fewer than a third become lawyers after multiple attempts at taking the bar.

6. When one takes into account the corrosive effects of racial preferences on the chances of all black law students to graduate and pass the bar, these preferences probably tend, system-wide, to shrink rather than expand the total number of new black lawyers each year. If all preferences were abolished, the data in Part VIII suggests that the number of black attorneys emerging from the class of 2004 would be 7% larger than it is.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on January 31, 2006, 12:25:23 PM
Ok I couldn't resist:

Damn,

Sounds to me like you're mad because you already know how awful you're going to do in law school, and how you'll be sinking in debt with no job to pay off your law school loans.  All because those damn black people are taking all the jobs!  ;D  Get a life petit, you sound like the common disgruntled white man/woman.  I thought it was black folks who usually complain about getting the short end of the stick.
Oh my God you lamebrain, get a sense of humor and then get a job because law school isn't meant for you if you couldn't see through my comments. COME ON, Ray Charles could have seen that my comments weren't serious. I'm black and tired of bottomfeeders whining about AA so I mess with them by creating OBVIOUSLY phony "stats" and "facts."

DUH.

Petit,

as discussed in various other postings, there are REAL people behind these postings, and you should be careful what you say and who you direct them to.  I don't particularly choose to joke about the issue of AA and don't take it lightly when I see discussions of that nature.  I know some people use humor to oftentimes quell an uncomfortable situation, but  your derogetory remarks were unwarranted.  A simple I was just joking would have sufficed.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on January 31, 2006, 01:18:03 PM
Ok I couldn't resist:

Damn,

Sounds to me like you're mad because you already know how awful you're going to do in law school, and how you'll be sinking in debt with no job to pay off your law school loans.  All because those damn black people are taking all the jobs!  ;D  Get a life petit, you sound like the common disgruntled white man/woman.  I thought it was black folks who usually complain about getting the short end of the stick.
Oh my God you lamebrain, get a sense of humor and then get a job because law school isn't meant for you if you couldn't see through my comments. COME ON, Ray Charles could have seen that my comments weren't serious. I'm black and tired of bottomfeeders whining about AA so I mess with them by creating OBVIOUSLY phony "stats" and "facts."

DUH.

Petit,

as discussed in various other postings, there are REAL people behind these postings, and you should be careful what you say and who you direct them to.  I don't particularly choose to joke about the issue of AA and don't take it lightly when I see discussions of that nature.  I know some people use humor to oftentimes quell an uncomfortable situation, but  your derogetory remarks were unwarranted.  A simple I was just joking would have sufficed.
If you wanted a "simple" 'I was joking,' you should have asked a "simple" 'are you serious' instead of going on a tirade.

However, point taken anyway. Sometimes I think no one can be so stupid as to think my stats are serious but IQ does follow a bell curve, doesn't it?
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on January 31, 2006, 02:25:34 PM
You must be one of those members who bring this board down, of which I was warned about.  I am fairly new to this board and was warned of the usual ignorant comment left on this board.  And as I stated before, there are certain things I just don't joke about, especially in writing, when there's no way to detect one's tone.  I'm not here to make enemies and have met some really cool people on this board, I'll just take it that you're not one of them. 

By the way, I didn't think your stats were serious.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on January 31, 2006, 06:54:04 PM
You must be one of those members who bring this board down, of which I was warned about.  I am fairly new to this board and was warned of the usual ignorant comment left on this board.  And as I stated before, there are certain things I just don't joke about, especially in writing, when there's no way to detect one's tone.  I'm not here to make enemies and have met some really cool people on this board, I'll just take it that you're not one of them. 

By the way, I didn't think your stats were serious.
The rules you set for yourself have nothing to do with me, so I don't know why you seem to be under the impression that what you consider joke-worthy is relevant to my life.

As for whether or not I'm one of the "cool people on this board," that is so high school so I'll just shake that little tidbit off *brush*
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Jontor on February 01, 2006, 06:09:07 AM
How come noone is commenting on what tmc123 wrote...instead of going back and forth about joking or not joking on URM/AA or whatever
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on February 01, 2006, 06:37:15 AM
How come noone is commenting on what tmc123 wrote...instead of going back and forth about joking or not joking on URM/AA or whatever

I do agree to some extent with the article, though I am uncertain of the statistical data that it quotes.  Until other soft factors change, your future success is rated as being high, when you graduate from a T20 school (no matter what race you are).  There are plenty of URM students who could be successful at these T20 schools, but would not be accepted mainly because of their numbers.  Basically, I don't agree that numbers are a sure factor of your performance in law school.  Not because you don't go into Harvard with a 180/4.0 means that you'll not graduate or will fall to the bottom of your class.  I know the article was not saying that this occurs to all black students who are admitted on AA, but I just don't know for sure that the numbers are as high as is quoted. 

Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: segundo on February 01, 2006, 06:44:29 AM
How much is it, anyone know or willing to guess.

Roughly:

Native American:  8-11 points
African American: 7-10 points
Hispanic:         5-7  points
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Jontor on February 01, 2006, 08:43:41 AM

Roughly:

Native American:  8-11 points
African American: 7-10 points
Hispanic:         5-7  points

This puts Harvard within reach.....should I get excited now.. ???
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 08:47:46 AM
Not if the app deadline has passed...
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on February 01, 2006, 08:49:56 AM
Jontor

at least you're in somewhere  :-\
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 10:11:06 AM
How come noone is commenting on what tmc123 wrote...instead of going back and forth about joking or not joking on URM/AA or whatever

Because that article has been discussed AD NAUSEAM on the AA board...do a search.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on February 01, 2006, 10:16:38 AM
How come noone is commenting on what tmc123 wrote...instead of going back and forth about joking or not joking on URM/AA or whatever

Because that article has been discussed AD NAUSEAM on the AA board...do a search.

Took the words out of my mouth, but didn't want to come off as being rude.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Jontor on February 01, 2006, 11:07:46 AM
Not if the app deadline has passed...

I applied already
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Jontor on February 01, 2006, 11:09:37 AM
How come noone is commenting on what tmc123 wrote...instead of going back and forth about joking or not joking on URM/AA or whatever

Because that article has been discussed AD NAUSEAM on the AA board...do a search.

Thanks Diamond Life .......
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: shabnam on February 01, 2006, 02:08:53 PM
Do you get an lsat boost if English is your second language, but you learned by age 5 (when you started school)? 
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 01, 2006, 08:20:57 PM
Quick ques -

For Black applicants who have applied in the past or are applying now and have received a decision -

if you fell under a school's median -- did you tend to hear a decision later in the cycle? - or did you hear in a period of time relative to when you applied?

Just wondering b/c just by following the general applicant pool - it seems as if decisions come in one batch - based on when you went complete

So if you haven't heard anything from the t14 (and you applied relatively early) - does this mean anything?? (for the Black applicant that falls below the median)

I hope my question isn't off-putting - just trying to get a sense of when decisions will come.



It is hypothesized that schools wait till the app deadline passes and compare all the minority applicants to each other and then make decisions - the exception being for those who have extremely strong numbers. That is pure speculation though, no one (except admissions officers) know for sure.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Playa222 on February 01, 2006, 08:46:24 PM
Quick ques -

For Black applicants who have applied in the past or are applying now and have received a decision -

if you fell under a school's median -- did you tend to hear a decision later in the cycle? - or did you hear in a period of time relative to when you applied?

Just wondering b/c just by following the general applicant pool - it seems as if decisions come in one batch - based on when you went complete

So if you haven't heard anything from the t14 (and you applied relatively early) - does this mean anything?? (for the Black applicant that falls below the median)

I hope my question isn't off-putting - just trying to get a sense of when decisions will come.



It is hypothesized that schools wait till the app deadline passes and compare all the minority applicants to each other and then make decisions - the exception being for those who have extremely strong numbers. That is pure speculation though, no one (except admissions officers) know for sure.

I don't know about this...I heard from Gtown on the first day they started accepting ppl and UMich within the first couple of weeks and my numbers are pretty far below the medians for both. 
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: jnc18 on February 01, 2006, 10:17:09 PM
Okay, so I read through this thread and that classic "white school" thread. 

Allow me to say in petit's defense, that it was clear that she was kidding on this thread and I thought her her jokes were pretty funny.  I'm guessing it is the drama from prior discussion that makes people unable to give her the benefit of the doubt and automatically become defensive.

And with regard to the prior discussion, that "white school" thread was pretty disheartening.  I thought petit started out providing an interesting viewpoint and it was unfortunate how it escalated.  By the end, it was just ugliness and disrespect coming from both sides.

The sad part is that I believe she really would find some good black American friends she could identify with and be close to.  If you go to any Ivy League school you'll find that a large percentage of the black students are children of African immigrants.  I never noticed any disconnect between "African" and "black" students, they readily and seamlessly identified with each other.  I believe it is her British upbringing that alienates her from black Americans much moreso than her African heritage.

Okay, said my piece on that.  Don't want to reignite old ish and I didn't want to hijack the thread.  Not that it's going to end up going anywhere to constructive anyway....
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: jnc18 on February 01, 2006, 10:25:19 PM
Quick ques -

For Black applicants who have applied in the past or are applying now and have received a decision -

if you fell under a school's median -- did you tend to hear a decision later in the cycle? - or did you hear in a period of time relative to when you applied?

Just wondering b/c just by following the general applicant pool - it seems as if decisions come in one batch - based on when you went complete

So if you haven't heard anything from the t14 (and you applied relatively early) - does this mean anything?? (for the Black applicant that falls below the median)

I hope my question isn't off-putting - just trying to get a sense of when decisions will come.


If it helps, my GPA is below the 25th percentile for all top schools and my LSAT is right at the median for the top 14 (admittedly an unusual combo for a black applicant).  I heard back from Georgetown within a week and a half.  I heard back from Michigan, USC, and Northwestern within about a month of going complete.  I applied to a good number of the top 14 and I'm guessing that most of the rest have me in some sort of limbo, in which they have to see the rest of the applicants.  I went complete for most in December, so I'm hoping to get word this month, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's March before I hear back from some.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on February 02, 2006, 06:51:33 AM
if you fell under a school's median -- did you tend to hear a decision later in the cycle? - or did you hear in a period of time relative to when you applied?
Like Jayscoot, I fell at the median for most T14s LSAT-wise but below the 25th %ile GPA-wise. I applied to all my schools around Dec 30th (one day later for one and one day earlier for another).

The acceptance letter from NYU was sent on the 18th of January, the acceptance letter from Georgetown was sent on the 23rd, and Columbia's letter was sent on the 27th. Cardozo's letter was sent on the 17th. So for these four schools, I heard back pretty quickly and early in the cycle (in comparison to the two to three month wait I had expected).

I haven't yet heard from any other schools so we'll see when those decisions arrive.

Quote
Just wondering b/c just by following the general applicant pool - it seems as if decisions come in one batch - based on when you went complete
I don't think there's any hard and fast rule. I never even got a complete from Georgetown--I just checked my mail and found the letter there. I never got a complete from Columbia either but then again I can't be sure about that because they are very email-happy and their email might have went to my spam folder to be accidentally deleted. I went complete at NYU and Cardozo on the 12th of January and they made their decisions in less than a week while some people who went complete months before me with stronger stats than me are still waiting to hear. I have no doubt they'll get in if I could get in but why do they have to wait longer? I think law schools are just unpredictable and temperamental. I'm starting to suspect they just pull applications to read randomly or something lol.

Quote
So if you haven't heard anything from the t14 (and you applied relatively early) - does this mean anything?? (for the Black applicant that falls below the median)
I don't think it necessarily does. If you haven't received a notice of completion, your decision might still have been made irregardless. If I heard early even while applying late, I don't think there's any definite rule that can be applied.

Quote
I hope my question isn't off-putting - just trying to get a sense of when decisions will come.
It's nerve-wracking, huh? I'm still waiting anxiously on two schools and just watch them take until mid-April to decide :D
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on February 02, 2006, 07:32:49 AM
And with regard to the prior discussion, that "white school" thread was pretty disheartening.  I thought petit started out providing an interesting viewpoint and it was unfortunate how it escalated.  By the end, it was just ugliness and disrespect coming from both sides.

Yup, black on black violence hit a new low in that thread :D I considered going back to apologize but I had a feeling someone would find something to take exception to in even that. So I left well enough alone. Plus, I feel I was goaded into losing my temper simply because my opinion didn't follow the accepted line of thought so I'm not sure anyone there deserved an apology anyway.

Quote
The sad part is that I believe she really would find some good black American friends she could identify with and be close to. If you go to any Ivy League school you'll find that a large percentage of the black students are children of African immigrants.  I never noticed any disconnect between "African" and "black" students, they readily and seamlessly identified with each other.  I believe it is her British upbringing that alienates her from black Americans much moreso than her African heritage.

I think it might have just been that being in the middle of nowhere surrounded by whites does things to people who aren't used to it :o There wasn't much unity between black Americans and Africans at my undergrad although it's not as if we were doing drive-bys on each other or commencing hostilities at every turn :D It left a mark on me because that was the first time I interacted with any black Americans in a meaningful way so I had no background against which to put the hurt in perspective ??? Since my graduation, I haven't had a chance to interact with black Americans in a way that fosters mutual understanding so my only experience to date has been that one. However, as I go to law school, I'm going to meet new people. I imagine I'll have better encounters then.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: jnc18 on February 02, 2006, 01:21:48 PM
Well in the spirit of both threads, do you feel you've had particular experiences or have been disadvantaged in some way that would merit you receiving a boost in the admissions process?  Also, given your general disconnect with black America, what would be your response to an anti-AA person who would say that it "isn't meant for people like you"?

BTW, did you get good news from your #1 recently?
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on February 02, 2006, 01:44:03 PM
Well in the spirit of both threads, do you feel you've had particular experiences or have been disadvantaged in some way that would merit you receiving a boost in the admissions process?  Also, given your general disconnect with black America, what would be your response to an anti-AA person who would say that it "isn't meant for people like you"?
Ooooh, a loaded question. Were you sent to lay the landmine before the rest of the group from the other thread attacks or is this a genuine question? ;) If you send me a PM, I'll give you a thoughtful answer. For now, I can sense the gang circling with batons at the ready to lay into my hide... :D
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 02, 2006, 01:51:50 PM
Well in the spirit of both threads, do you feel you've had particular experiences or have been disadvantaged in some way that would merit you receiving a boost in the admissions process?  Also, given your general disconnect with black America, what would be your response to an anti-AA person who would say that it "isn't meant for people like you"?
Ooooh, a loaded question. Were you sent to lay the landmine before the rest of the group from the other thread attacks or is this a genuine question? ;) If you send me a PM, I'll give you a thoughtful answer. For now, I can sense the gang circling with batons at the ready to lay into my hide... :D

I think I can safely speak for the entire "gang" when I say it's really not that serious. Speaking for myself, I'm interested in hearing your responses to jayscoot's question, so I hope you'll post them on the thread.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: jnc18 on February 02, 2006, 02:11:30 PM
Well in the spirit of both threads, do you feel you've had particular experiences or have been disadvantaged in some way that would merit you receiving a boost in the admissions process?  Also, given your general disconnect with black America, what would be your response to an anti-AA person who would say that it "isn't meant for people like you"?
Ooooh, a loaded question. Were you sent to lay the landmine before the rest of the group from the other thread attacks or is this a genuine question? ;) If you send me a PM, I'll give you a thoughtful answer. For now, I can sense the gang circling with batons at the ready to lay into my hide... :D

Haha, as I typed the questions I realized that they might seem disingenuous, so I understand.  I'm not a part of "the group" and I'm not that kinda of guy in general.  I'm nothing if not straight up.  Probably the kind of person you missed out on meeting in undergrad.  I just honestly wanted to know your opinion on it, because I figure it would be pretty interesting.  So I'll take that thoughtful answer via PM if you feel (justifiably) that you'd get verbally jumped by giving an honest reply on the thread.

BTW, you didn't answer about the #1....
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on February 03, 2006, 08:44:21 AM
Well in the spirit of both threads, do you feel you've had particular experiences or have been disadvantaged in some way that would merit you receiving a boost in the admissions process? 

I daresay few if any Americans (black or other) can top my stories of childhood poverty and disadvantage.

But seriously, my siblings and I have always attended good schools because my parents were willing to scrimp and save and borrow and go without. But that does not change the fact that I have known disadvantage and most of my life was spent very well-acquainted with 'how the other side lives.' Since moving to America, things have improved RAPIDLY for us and it is a point of deep pride for me that you can't look at us now and know at all what we've been through. But that doesn't change the fact that up to five years ago, that wasn't the case.

Quote
Also, given your general disconnect with black America, what would be your response to an anti-AA person who would say that it "isn't meant for people like you"?
See this is the real issue.

Because I don't think that pound for pound, suffering for suffering, many black Americans can compare with Africans in terms of disadvantage. Additionally, Africans have known racism and discrimination and suffered because we are black people in America and do not have "Not Black American' stamped on our foreheads despite our cultural difference.

So the question isn't whether or not 'people like me' have known disadvantage, the question is whether or not it is relevant that we are not black American.

My opinion is that it is NOT relevant that we are not black American. Because the official point of AA isn't to only benefit black Americans...at least that's not the impression I get. It is to correct or at least ameliorate the impact of disadvantage and discrimination that goes hand in hand with minority status. So, 'people like me,' although not black American, have indeed known disadvantage and discrimination in America due to our status as minorities. We are minorities by virtue of our blackness and in my case, by virtue of my former socioeconomic status.

So I guess my point is that I do not believe that we have to be affiliated with black Americans in order to be accorded joint benefits as blacks in America. My disconnect with black America doesn't make me any less of a black person living in America. As Intent06, so "eloquently" (::))put it: I am still a "N*gg*r" to racists.

Now of course, there are those who will argue that Affirmative Action by race is only for the descendants of slaves in this country. To them, I will say that inasmuch as hispanics, who themselves are not black Americans or descendants of slaves in America, can be considered deserving of Affirmative Action, then Africans and other blacks who have not been enslaved in America but suffer racism nonetheless should not be any less deserving.

I do not say all of this in order to minimize the central role of black Americans in securing consideration and rights for all disadvantaged Americans. Nor do I say it to cast aspersion on the unique status of black Americans as survivors and joint heirs with white Americans in building the America we know today. I simply say it because I am discussing Affirmative Action as it is (i.e. meant for minorities) instead of as some believe it should be (i.e. only for blacks with historical roots in America).

The only coherent argument a person can make that I consider noteworthy is to bring up the possibility that Africans, though minorities like black Americans, are not underrepresented in higher education. Some would argue that we should be treated like Asians who are not accorded the benefits of Affirmative Action by race in education. To the best of my knowledge, Africans are overrepresented in higher education if one goes by their meager numbers in the general population. So should we be excluded?...that's not for me to decide. But as long as the rules have not been changed, I feel perfectly entitled to consideration under AA.

Note to Some: Okay so I'm sticking my neck out for the sake of good dialogue...be nice already :-\
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: jnc18 on February 03, 2006, 10:09:20 AM
Thanks for the response

Because I don't think that pound for pound, suffering for suffering, many black Americans can compare with Africans in terms of disadvantage.

I don't think anyone would argue against this, but it is probably outside of the scope of what I was asking in any case.  As far as I'm concerned, it is indisputable that Africans as a whole experience disadvantage that most black Americans could not fathom.  WHen I said "people like you" I was asking your particular perspective as an African who has gone to good schools and lived within a predominantly white society and culture most of her life.

Quote
Additionally, Africans have known racism and discrimination and suffered because we are black people in America and do not have "Not Black American' stamped on our foreheads despite our cultural difference.

So the question isn't whether or not 'people like me' have known disadvantage, the question is whether or not it is relevant that we are not black American.

My opinion is that it is NOT relevant that we are not black American. Because the official point of AA isn't to only benefit black Americans...at least that's not the impression I get. It is to correct or at least ameliorate the impact of disadvantage and discrimination that goes hand in hand with minority status. So, 'people like me,' although not black American, have indeed known disadvantage and discrimination in America due to our status as minorities. We are minorities by virtue of our blackness and in my case, by virtue of my former socioeconomic status.

So I guess my point is that I do not believe that we have to be affiliated with black Americans in order to be accorded joint benefits as blacks in America. My disconnect with black America doesn't make me any less of a black person living in America. As Intent06, so "eloquently" (::))put it: I am still a "N*gg*r" to racists.

I completely agree.  I would expect that all this give you a greater sense of connection to black Americans naturally though.  In America, not only will you be called a n*gger by racists, but you'll be subjected to the prevailing stereotypes of black people by the majority of all people.  You'll also have to deal with the "moderate" majority that's going to automatically, yet never admittedly, assume that you are naturally less intellectually capable than others.  It seems you are already well aware of this and I guess I'm a littls surprised that it doesn't give you a ready conduit for an identity within the black community.  As I said before, it has generally been my experience that most Africans relate to black Americans and quickly recognize themselves as a part of the "African American culture".

You said before that your experiences and comfort level has generally been higher with white people than with black people, which I still have to believe that is because of your primarily white/British environment growing up.  Also, you probably have been more exposed to the educated/progressive white people.  You get a big enough taste of the conservative majority and the good ol' boy network and you'll understand even better why most URMs feel an underlying bond.

Quote
Africans are not underrepresented in higher education.

Within the context of the most selective institutions, a lot of that has to do with the fact that they are treated the same as your typical black American in the admissions process, but they generally perform on a level much higher.

Anyway, I am pretty much in the mentality that if someone's black, I'm behind them regardless of where they're from.  I'm much more concerned about the prejudgments made on our race than our culture.  Even if you don't really identify, everytime a black person can shatter the subtle, prevailing notion of subhuman intelligence and behavior, it's going to benefit us all.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: remus on February 03, 2006, 10:57:00 AM
The LSAT makes some sense because URMs score lower on the test in an almost systematic fashion (some suggest cultural bias as the culprit).

Ah, yes, white people have long hoarded all their logic games from the clutches of the inferior minorities. I think I remember reading in Frederick Douglass's Narrative that this is what really made plantation life so intolerable for a slave.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Jontor on February 03, 2006, 11:43:17 AM
Ah, yes, white people have long hoarded all their logic games from the clutches of the inferior minorities. I think I remember reading in Frederick Douglass's Narrative that this is what really made plantation life so intolerable for a slave.

......OK... ???
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on February 03, 2006, 12:09:44 PM
It seems you are already well aware of this and I guess I'm a littls surprised that it doesn't give you a ready conduit for an identity within the black community.  As I said before, it has generally been my experience that most Africans relate to black Americans and quickly recognize themselves as a part of the "African American culture".
Of course I am already well aware of everything you said re: progressive whites v. conservative/ignorant ones. However, as I've said before, I don't deal in theory, I deal in real life experience. If those who in theory should be my friends treat me like a dog, then they are no friends of mine...and if he who in theory should be my enemy treats me like a sister, then he is no enemy of mine.

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You said before that your experiences and comfort level has generally been higher with white people than with black people...
No.

This is not what I said.

What I said is that my "experiences and comfort level" has been higher with white Americans than with black Americans. The "American" part is an important distinction to make because leaving that off paints a misleading and inaccurate picture. I am very comfortable with Caribbean blacks, my fellow Naijas, and other Africans, so it is not a matter of black and white. It is a matter of who treats me the way I deserve.

Quote
Even if you don't really identify, everytime a black person can shatter the subtle, prevailing notion of subhuman intelligence and behavior, it's going to benefit us all.
Agreed ;)
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: jnc18 on February 03, 2006, 01:27:07 PM
Of course I am already well aware of everything you said re: progressive whites v. conservative/ignorant ones. However, as I've said before, I don't deal in theory, I deal in real life experience. If those who in theory should be my friends treat me like a dog, then they are no friends of mine...and if he who in theory should be my enemy treats me like a sister, then he is no enemy of mine.

Relationships go both ways.  It seems like you haven't at all considered your own contribution to these interactions.

Quote
What I said is that my "experiences and comfort level" has been higher with white Americans than with black Americans. The "American" part is an important distinction to make because leaving that off paints a misleading and inaccurate picture. I am very comfortable with Caribbean blacks, my fellow Naijas, and other Africans, so it is not a matter of black and white. It is a matter of who treats me the way I deserve.

I guess I still find this surprising as I haven't noticed any difference in race relations between black Americans and whites vs. black Africans/W. Indians and whites.  If anything, they have been less inclusive.  Anyway, you seem to be open-minded enough to make progress you your relationships with black Americans, so hopefully you'll have the opportunity to do so.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: BrerAnansi on February 03, 2006, 01:41:00 PM
The LSAT makes some sense because URMs score lower on the test in an almost systematic fashion (some suggest cultural bias as the culprit).

Ah, yes, white people have long hoarded all their logic games from the clutches of the inferior minorities. I think I remember reading in Frederick Douglass's Narrative that this is what really made plantation life so intolerable for a slave.

I don't know about plantation life...but coming off of $60+ for one book was intolerable.  You know how much respect I could command with that sort of capital at my neighborhood Mickey Ds?  Damn...you may not "hoard" them...but forcing us to choose between McNuggets and knowledge is unjustifiably cruel...
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: rabika on February 04, 2006, 03:51:38 AM
Ok I couldn't resist:

Damn,

Sounds to me like you're mad because you already know how awful you're going to do in law school, and how you'll be sinking in debt with no job to pay off your law school loans.  All because those damn black people are taking all the jobs!  ;D  Get a life petit, you sound like the common disgruntled white man/woman.  I thought it was black folks who usually complain about getting the short end of the stick.
Oh my God you lamebrain, get a sense of humor and then get a job because law school isn't meant for you if you couldn't see through my comments. COME ON, Ray Charles could have seen that my comments weren't serious. I'm black and tired of bottomfeeders whining about AA so I mess with them by creating OBVIOUSLY phony "stats" and "facts."

DUH.

the ray charles comment was outta line... 

defensive much???

chill out

Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: rabika on February 04, 2006, 03:56:19 AM
Do you get an lsat boost if English is your second language, but you learned by age 5 (when you started school)? 

nope... it would be nice if you did though!
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: BrerAnansi on February 04, 2006, 03:57:57 AM
We regret to announce the death of "URM LSAT Boost".  This thread passed away at 5:54am EST.  It is survived by by its much worthier siblings residing on LSD.  Please direct any wreaths and expressions of condolence to the AA board.

:plays Taps:  
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: rabika on February 04, 2006, 04:03:58 AM
lol
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: aqualung on February 04, 2006, 06:03:41 AM
Anna Ivey says that Blacks get as much as 10 points as a boost on the LSAT. 
She told me this on the phone when I consulted with her during the application process.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: windowshopper on February 05, 2006, 03:04:31 PM
This is a comment to the OP:  Yes, blacks get a "boost," but if you read most applications, this is almost wholly reserved for US citizens and permanent residents. As a Canadian, I don't think you get any points. 

Can anyone confirm or refute this?
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Jontor on February 05, 2006, 03:40:20 PM
Anna Ivey says that Blacks get as much as 10 points as a boost on the LSAT. 
She told me this on the phone when I consulted with her during the application process.

HOw much did you pay her?
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: petitschoque on February 05, 2006, 04:23:56 PM
the ray charles comment was outta line... 

defensive much???

chill out


You're about six days too late to take that up with me. Please join me in *getting over it* ;)
Title: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Dillz on February 06, 2006, 11:01:48 AM
Right now im a sophmore at indiana university with a 2.8 gpa..but it will go up. I am wondering if I should just take fluff classes in undergrad to get a good gpa or should I take challenging classes and end up with an ok gpa. I really want to go to law school and but I know about the amount of debt u go into while in school..I come for a low income family and im a 1st generation college kid so I dont know how i would pay for law school...and what should i do now to prepare for law school? And the admission process
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: A. on February 06, 2006, 11:13:27 AM
Ideally you would take challenging classes and do well.  Additionally, if you want a real education, take the challenging classes.  Barring that, if your goal is to get into a good law school, take the fluff classes.  The best thing you can do now to prepare for law school is get the GPA up.
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: crazy8 on February 06, 2006, 11:19:42 AM
Right now im a sophmore at indiana university with a 2.8 gpa..but it will go up. I am wondering if I should just take fluff classes in undergrad to get a good gpa or should I take challenging classes and end up with an ok gpa. I really want to go to law school and but I know about the amount of debt u go into while in school..I come for a low income family and im a 1st generation college kid so I dont know how i would pay for law school...and what should i do now to prepare for law school? And the admission process

Dillz,

it's great that you're thinking about this already.  I would have to agree with Alci.  You should definitely try to get the best out of college, and take classes that are challenging, but also intersest you so that you can get good grades.  With that said, your GPA and LSAT are a major part of your acceptance into law school.  If you can increase that GPA and study hard (over the summer) on taking the LSAT (take a prep class if you think it could help you even slightly).  If you do this and your numbers increase, you will have the best opportunity at getting into law school, and can also be offered scholarships based on these numbers.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 06, 2006, 11:20:26 AM
I am wondering if I should just take fluff classes in undergrad to get a good gpa or should I take challenging classes and end up with an ok gpa. I really want to go to law school
[/quote]

What is your current undergrad major or combination? You definitely don't want fluff classes for GPA infation cos it won' help you in the short run (if you decide not to go to law school and then seek a job) and in the long run (cos law school is no joke and you don't want to be academically unprepared). Do you know what you want to use your law school degree for? Politics, Court clerkship, private practice of Big time law partner. In any case, you want to go to the best law school you can get into and a 2.9 GPA will probably not push you into the Top 20. Basically , you will need to concentrate very hard on getting as many As as possible between now and graduation. You want to be somewhere in the 3.8+ GPA range or higher for Liberal arts type degrees, 3.5+ for Business, Science and Engineering Majors if possible. You also want to strongly prepare for your LSAT and aim for the highest scores possible, but nothing lower than 165 if yon can help it. Law School is a major investment that pays astronimical dividends in the future if handled correctly..whatever you are doing now that is giving you 2.9 GPA needs to be terminated and a major about face towards the top should be done. Nothing is impossible if you put your heart and mind to it...Believe! Then work hard!!

Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Dillz on February 06, 2006, 11:27:35 AM
My major now is Public Management with a minor in legal studies...i changed it from what it was last year(Crim jus and telecom double major)..the reason my gpa suffered was b/c I started partying way too much and stopped going to class. the 2.8 gpa is just from my freshman year..I sat out the 1st semester of this year b/c of Military duty and I am doing well this semester so mt gpa should increase a bit after the semester.
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Dillz on February 06, 2006, 11:33:02 AM
I would like to concentrate on corporate or contract law also mybe entertainment law ...b/c I have a cousin who is a rookie for the steelers and another cousin who is getting drafted this year so I would like to be their agents when I get out...I would like end up with my own firm though in the end
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 06, 2006, 11:56:52 AM
I would like to concentrate on corporate or contract law also mybe entertainment law ...b/c I have a cousin who is a rookie for the steelers and another cousin who is getting drafted this year so I would like to be their agents when I get out...I would like end up with my own firm though in the end

Good! I'm very happy for you that you realized you erred and have now taken it up to make amends. Don't worry..certainly you have a shot as high as you want to go. Stay focused on your current curriculum (its not a good sign to hop around majors) and work hard at excelling in all things. Definitely can the partying if it will adversely affect your grades and realize that you are in school as an investment not a rite of passage. Just believe, stay focusd and work hard. Your being in the armed forces is a solid plus and I hope you reflect that as part of your development in your essay when you apply to law school. Make solid contacts with your professors and tutors (you will need them to write recomendations for you) as well as a professional contact (e.g. your direct superior in the Armed Forces) who will also write a recommendation for you. All these will pan out well in the next 2-3 yrs if you stay on track. When its time for your LSAT prepare for it like everything depended on it, aim high and shoot. I believe you may very well have a shot at Yale, Harvard, Chicago, Michigan or wherever you want to go. Like I said..Believe, then work hard! :)
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Dillz on February 06, 2006, 12:01:57 PM
thank you for your kindness and encouraging words I really appreciate it
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: *shell* on February 06, 2006, 12:03:54 PM
a few fluff classes should help, but if u load up on them most adcomms see right through it.  also going to agree with other posters that you'd be cheating yourself too.  work hard, take interesting courses, and kick some lsat ass and you should be ok.  schools like seeing upward trends in grades too, so its good you have 2.5 years to make up for your gpa.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: RockyMarciano on February 07, 2006, 05:12:46 PM
Anna Ivey says that Blacks get as much as 10 points as a boost on the LSAT. 
She told me this on the phone when I consulted with her during the application process.

Did you get her services or just chatted with her?

With your numbers, did she tell you not to apply to Suffolk and a few others because you are going to get into a T10 school?

I do not mean to be rude but just wondering.

Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: aqualung on February 07, 2006, 09:46:55 PM
I paid. She charges $240/hour, and she bills in tenths of an hour. Too soon to say whether it was worth the trouble, though.

She told me to add more top 14 schools and to remove some of my safeties and 50-50s. (I tend to overcompensate, and my LSAT is underwhelming.) She indicated which themes to play up in my statements.

Whatever.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 10:09:57 PM
I wonder what kinda boost many/most/ white people get throughout life in society...Anna Ivey have any info on this?
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: as436 on February 07, 2006, 10:12:56 PM
-5 years in jail
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: canthardlywait on February 07, 2006, 10:26:21 PM
I wonder what kinda boost white people get throughout life in society...Anna Ivey have any info on this?


Galt... That would be interesting if there were some kind of index to measure such a boost on... the one issue that I take with that statement is that the word "some" or even "most" should be inserted... I am a white male... first in family to graduate college, one of the first to graduate high school and have worked very hard to get where I am.  I don't feel that I've received this "boost" but I feel that due to diversity rankings for schools all URM's receive a boost just based on their race.  I don't feel cheated because my 162/3.5 is going to get me into a great state school that I can afford (on loans) and I'm not really interested in going T14, but I understand how some white people from backgrounds like mine may feel cheated by statements like that.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: John Galt on February 07, 2006, 10:28:06 PM
I wonder what kinda boost white people get throughout life in society...Anna Ivey have any info on this?


Galt... That would be interesting if there were some kind of index to measure such a boost on... the one issue that I take with that statement is that the word "some" or even "most" should be inserted... I am a white male... first in family to graduate college, one of the first to graduate high school and have worked very hard to get where I am.  I don't feel that I've received this "boost" but I feel that due to diversity rankings for schools all URM's receive a boost just based on their race.  I don't feel cheated because my 162/3.5 is going to get me into a great state school that I can afford (on loans) and I'm not really interested in going T14, but I understand how some white people from backgrounds like mine may feel cheated by statements like that.

noted
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: AH on February 07, 2006, 10:38:47 PM
I second that and thanks for noting it JG. :)

I could never afford Anna Ivey, I could actually barely afford those Powerscore books!  Given that I gre up as the ethnic minority (and looked 100% white), I can say without a doubt that I got no boost whatsoever, if anything my race hurt me a lot until I came to the southern US.

That gets into the whole income/race AA debate, which I don't want to start, but I guess the point is there are outliers in all respects.  I used to think it was a very clear-cut issue, but I took Law and Poverty last semester and it opened up a lot of instiutional problems I hadn't considered (due in part to my long-held resentment for my own upbringing and where that fit into AA), but I am glad this is an issue that at least a few people can talk logically and honestly about.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: 2Lacoste on February 08, 2006, 10:51:28 AM
I just took the Ivey book outta the library after all my apps were done to see if she said anything about getting off waitlist. 

And John, if we understand a boost as an extra amount over a norm or regular level, then whites get no "boost" in society -- they are the norm, and the only people who get boosts are probably rich(er) whites who can pay to beat the system of normal privilege.  The regular Joe Whiteboy gets no boost, he just enjoys the beneficial structure of the normal system of things.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on February 08, 2006, 10:56:47 AM
Lacoste,

does she say anything about waitlists?
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: 2Lacoste on February 08, 2006, 11:00:15 AM
I don't have the book in front of me because I'm at school, but I'll check at home and update you for sure.  From what I remember, she didn't any spectacular advice for this situation.  I think she recommended a letter of continuing/continued interest where you could also highlight something you've done since you sent out the application.

Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: Jontor on February 08, 2006, 12:02:26 PM
Lacoste,

does she say anything about waitlists?

This might help got it from Anthony Solana, Jr.
P.O. Box 71067
Los Angeles, CA 90071
e-mail: anthonysolana@earthlink.net
website: www.forpeopleofcolor.org

Dear Law School Applicants of Color:
 
I have been hearing from an increasing number of you who have either
 
a) been wait listed; and/or
 
b) been denied admission.
 
Here are some strategies, I think, you can take.
 
Again, this advice is purely from my perspective and experience.  In the end you have to make your own choices.  As you all know, in life there are simply no guarantees.
 
I.  Wait listed
 
If you have been wait listed, you have basically been placed in a pool of applicants the law school will draw from when applicants who have been admitted deny that admission.  In other words, people get pulled from the wait list in order to fill spots left empty from admitees to decide to attend other schools.
 
Therefore, here the name of the game is to get on top of that wait list.  Some schools literally rank their wait list from the 1st student they will pull from that list to the bottom.
 
Thus, it is imperative that you make it known that you want to be on the top of that list.
 
Steps:
 
1.  Write a letter to the Dean of Admissions informing them that you are excited about the opportunity of attending their school.  Inform them that they are your top school and will attend if they grant you admission.
 
Also, inform them of any recent developments (e.g. any awards or scholarships, any good grades you recently received, any great recent work or community experience, etc.)
 
Again, this letter should be very simple, clear, and to the point.  More importantly, ABSOLUTELY NO MISTAKES!!!  I'm absolutely floored each time someone sends me their materials and its full of spelling and grammar mistakes.
 
Remember, the margin of error is very slim here.  Make absolutely sure you materials are perfect.
 
2.  Get an additional letter of recommendation and submit it.  It should focus on your intellectual prowess.  In other words, "this person is really smart and will do very well at your school" type of letter.
 
3.  Find an alumnus or alumna from that institution and see if they will write you a letter of support.
 
4.  Contact the student of color orgs at that school and see if they are willing to support you in your quest to gain admission.  Here - this is a bit iffy because the responsiveness from these groups varies widely.  It does not, however, hurt to ask.
 
Finally, do all of this ASAP.
 
II.  Denied Admission
 
Here, unfortunately, you are in a very, very difficult place.  Chances are you will not be able to turn this decision around.
 
But in my mind, if I'm going to go down, then I'm going to do it fighting.  At worst, you are taking a last possible swing and you just never know because it just might work.
 
Steps:
 
1.  Appeal the Decision Via a Letter:  Every admissions official will tell you that there is no "formal" appeals process when they deny someone admission.
 
Personally, I think that is a load of ****.  This is what you need to do:  Write a letter informing them that you regret the fact that they have denied you admission.  But also inform them that you want them to re-review your file for admission.  Then point out the strongest points of your application (work experience, community service, awards, grades - especially if you started doing really well in the end).
 
2.  Do all the other steps under the wait list category.
 
Overall lesson:
 
As I like to state during my workshops, you need to be your own best advocate here.  If you want to become an effective attorney, then you need to learn how to fight like hell for everything.
 
This starts with fighting for yourself.  Do not be timid and do not take no for an answer.
 
Most importantly, know that being placed on a wait list or denied admission is not an indication that you are stupid and have nothing to contribute to our society.
 
Unfortunately, law schools are placing an ever increasing emphasis on the numbers (GPA and LSAT).  Therefore, it is up to you to contextualize these numbers in order to demonstrate that these scores are not an accurate reflection of your academic potential.
 
Finally, I'm really sorry for those of you who find yourselves in these positions.  Just know that if there is anything I can do to help, let me know.
 
At worst, we'll just have to re-evaluate your application strategy and try again next year.
 
I wish you all the very best.

Anthony Solana, Jr.
P.O. Box 71067
Los Angeles, CA 90071
e-mail: anthonysolana@earthlink.net
website: www.forpeopleofcolor.org
blog: http://blog.myspace.com/forpeopleofcolor
© 2000-2006 Copyright by Anthony Solana, Jr. All Rights Reserved.
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: team mvp on February 08, 2006, 12:24:35 PM
Right now im a sophmore at indiana university with a 2.8 gpa..but it will go up. I am wondering if I should just take fluff classes in undergrad to get a good gpa or should I take challenging classes and end up with an ok gpa. I really want to go to law school and but I know about the amount of debt u go into while in school..I come for a low income family and im a 1st generation college kid so I dont know how i would pay for law school...and what should i do now to prepare for law school? And the admission process

The key is to take classes that look tough on paper, but are actually very easy.  I have taken some grad level courses that are easier than intro frosh classes.  Do your research and ask around. 
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 08, 2006, 12:31:28 PM
Also think about taking a 5th year to add a major or get a masters (if your school offers a 5th year masters). As long as your bachelors is not conferred until the end of the 5th year, all the classes you take will count towards your GPA (we are assuming you will get nothing less than stellar grades from now on :)). That should help bring up that 2.9 tremendously. Also you can add a major that might be a little more marketable in the workplace after graduation...you don't know what will happen and you may end up not going to LS straight through - esp if your financials are as you say they are, you'll want a year or two to work and save a little money.
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 08, 2006, 01:50:52 PM
Also think about taking a 5th year to add a major or get a masters (if your school offers a 5th year masters). As long as your bachelors is not conferred until the end of the 5th year, all the classes you take will count towards your GPA (we are assuming you will get nothing less than stellar grades from now on :)). That should help bring up that 2.9 tremendously. Also you can add a major that might be a little more marketable in the workplace after graduation...you don't know what will happen and you may end up not going to LS straight through - esp if your financials are as you say they are, you'll want a year or two to work and save a little money.

Hey that's what I already said...comments are patented you know..you owe me like $300 (including a $50 penatly for unwarranted use)... :D
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on February 08, 2006, 02:48:30 PM
Also think about taking a 5th year to add a major or get a masters (if your school offers a 5th year masters). As long as your bachelors is not conferred until the end of the 5th year, all the classes you take will count towards your GPA (we are assuming you will get nothing less than stellar grades from now on :)). That should help bring up that 2.9 tremendously. Also you can add a major that might be a little more marketable in the workplace after graduation...you don't know what will happen and you may end up not going to LS straight through - esp if your financials are as you say they are, you'll want a year or two to work and save a little money.

Hey that's what I already said...comments are patented you know..you owe me like $300 (including a $50 penatly for unwarranted use)... :D

I don't see anything about doing a 5th year elsewhere on the thread. And you can't pull that fake patent joint like the Blackberry case  :D
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: A. on February 08, 2006, 03:01:47 PM
Putting my newly acquired IP knowledge to use: A.) You can't patent a post.  B.) Since she came up with the post independent of you, you couldn't claim a copyright violation either. ;)
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: crazy8 on February 08, 2006, 03:24:16 PM
Thanks Jontor, this was useful.
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 08, 2006, 03:45:20 PM
Putting my newly acquired IP knowledge to use: A.) You can't patent a post.  B.) Since she came up with the post independent of you, you couldn't claim a copyright violation either. ;)

AAAEGGGHH..I could have sworn I said something of the sort before..maybe I was talking to someone about it and confused that with a BLSD post. Sorry!!! But Alci, here is one for you..can the owner of a website patent the content (posts, images, design, layout etc) of the website including comments of site visitors? I just reviewed a sales contract that had that in I thought..hmm..I did not know that. It brings to mind a weird case I heard about (not sure if its true) (caution: contains adult references) a man claims to be the defacto biological father of a wealthy heiress who's mother obtained his sperm without his explicit consent..(if I recall correctly he claims he was at either at a swingers' event or somehow left his discharge somewhere and somehow this lady got it and used it..sounds pretty sordid and far fetched but assuming we can go by that..can he claim the child is his and ergo some custody rights?
Title: Re: Undergrad w/ a question
Post by: A. on February 08, 2006, 04:23:50 PM
Lol.  I'm only two weeks into this IP course, so I can't give you any real answers.  My opinion: On the first matter, I don't think you can patent a website...that's not an invention.  As for copyrighting it, the webmaster could protect whatever creativity went into the site (like layout), but he couldn't protect the underlying idea (e.g., a message board).  I'm thinking he might be able to copyright the visitors' comments if they sign a waiver, kinda like how magazines can publish essays you send to them.  Without the waiver, I don't know if he could.

Lol, and as for the stolen semen...if the guy is the father, he's the father, right?  I don't know about custody rights, though.  Sounds more like a family law issue to me.
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: shaz on February 08, 2006, 08:08:06 PM
bump (for later)
Title: Re: URM LSAT Boost
Post by: BrerAnansi on February 08, 2006, 10:14:07 PM
baff
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: WarrenG on February 11, 2006, 09:17:15 AM
FYI, I got into NYU on Wedsnesday.  I am very pleased with the quick turnaround, I went complete on Jan. 29th and the letter of acceptance was dated Feb. 1, and hope that it indicates more good news to come.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: jeb240 on February 11, 2006, 12:56:54 PM
FYI, I got into NYU on Wedsnesday.  I am very pleased with the quick turnaround, I went complete on Jan. 29th and the letter of acceptance was dated Feb. 1, and hope that it indicates more good news to come.

For the record, that makes you mega-awesome.  And I wish I were as mega-awesome as you.
Title: Y
Post by: crazy8 on February 11, 2006, 01:11:13 PM
Congratulations Warren!  Damn, you'll are starting to make me feel like I'm below par :-[  But it pushes me to step up my game! ;)
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: WarrenG on February 11, 2006, 04:21:26 PM
Thanks for the congrats.  Jason, you're doing really well too, some great acceptances and no rejections yet.  Crazy, hang in there, I'm sure good news will be coming your way too.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 11, 2006, 06:29:08 PM
Thanks for the congrats.  Jason, you're doing really well too, some great acceptances and no rejections yet.  Crazy, hang in there, I'm sure good news will be coming your way too.
International from Africa or Carribean? You numbers are good for pretty much any of those schools and all the top 14..apply to all 14 cos you never know if the schools in the 7-14 will want you so much they could pretty much give you a free ride and then you won't need the deferral...Michigan, Virginia, GULC, Duke, Boalt, Texas etc
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on February 11, 2006, 08:50:06 PM
Thanks for the congrats.  Jason, you're doing really well too, some great acceptances and no rejections yet.  Crazy, hang in there, I'm sure good news will be coming your way too.
International from Africa or Carribean? You numbers are good for pretty much any of those schools and all the top 14..apply to all 14 cos you never know if the schools in the 7-14 will want you so much they could pretty much give you a free ride and then you won't need the deferral...Michigan, Virginia, GULC, Duke, Boalt, Texas etc

ROFL. He's from Canada.  Why did you assume Africa or Caribbean? :D
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: team mvp on February 11, 2006, 09:01:45 PM
FYI, I got into NYU on Wedsnesday.  I am very pleased with the quick turnaround, I went complete on Jan. 29th and the letter of acceptance was dated Feb. 1, and hope that it indicates more good news to come.

Congrats!  I'm sure CLS is soon to come as well.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: WarrenG on February 12, 2006, 10:18:39 AM
 :D Yeah I'm Canadian, but I was born and lived out my first three years in England.  My Grandparents, however, are from Jamaica.

PTP, you from the D (or surrounding area)?  I ask because I noticed you have the greatest player to ever step on a football field in your avator.
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: Stencilasnusky on February 12, 2006, 12:50:04 PM

ROFL. He's from Canada.  Why did you assume Africa or Caribbean? :D
[/quote]

I just assumed he was since he posted here and was a URM. but my guess was kinda right though, I think a non-URM with those numbers would be near auto-reject at HYS and probably the rest of the top 10 LS. But seeing as he confirmed he has Jamaican ancestry, I guess he's welcome to join the club. FWIW, I'm straight up African with not an ounce of diversity or ethnic variation in my background, I feel so plain  :-[!!!
Title: Re: Questions, Questions
Post by: team mvp on February 12, 2006, 03:46:54 PM
:D Yeah I'm Canadian, but I was born and lived out my first three years in England.  My Grandparents, however, are from Jamaica.

PTP, you from the D (or surrounding area)?  I ask because I noticed you have the greatest player to ever step on a football field in your avator.

No, I'm not from Detroit or anywhere near but he's just my favorite player of all time and IMO the greatest RB of all time (or at least the most exciting to watch).
Title: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 09, 2006, 12:05:41 PM
Hi Everyone:

This is my first time posting to the BLSDB but I have been lurking for awhile.  I desperately need help because as the application season comes to a close--I am beginning to freak out that I may be rejected from everywhere I applied. 

I gradated from Cornell in May with a 3.48 (cum laude) and my major GPA was a 3.78 (which I made sure to point out since the 1st two years I was a biology major and thought I would attend med school).  My problem is my very low LSAT score of 152.  I have a history of poor testing (consistently scoring in the 40-60 percentile ranges) and discussed this in an addendum.  I also grew up disadvantaged(father in jail and have been trying to escape the inner city most of my life) which I discussed in my personal statement.

My first choice is GW and I applied for both the part time and full time program.  Apart from this I am also looking at Fordham.

My List:
George Washington University (part time and full time)
Fordham University
Boston University
Georgetown University (part time and full time)
Cornell University
University of Illinois (b/c I got a fee waiver).

I am afraid that I may be reaching too high based on my LSAT.  March 15th is a deadline for some schools---so if anyone has any recommendations of schools I should add to my list, Please let me know.  Also, if anyone has any suggestions as to how I can boost my chances while I wait, please let me know.

Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 09, 2006, 12:14:31 PM
I should mention that I am black female (African immigrant).
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Andromeda on March 09, 2006, 12:21:58 PM
It's always good to aim really high but I will suggest you try to get some safeties as well because admissions is very competitive even for blacks. You look like you are leaning towards the tri state DC/MD/VA area. You should check out these other schools.

American, Washington College of Law
Howard **You have to apply to Howard**
George Mason

Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Stencilasnusky on March 09, 2006, 12:29:52 PM
Hi..welcome to BLSD..I generally do not encourage folks posting these "What are my chances" posts cos I think they set you up for others to determine what your destiny is and as such.....BUT, seeing theat you are newbie and I am also African..I will help you.  :D

OK..generally as a black female you are less in demand than a black male but nevertheless I think your score is not too much a hurdle. I know someone with similar paper stats (but extensive WE) who got into UPenn this cycle. I assume you have applied to all the schools below and that you did so no later than early Dec 2005, in that case I think you will need a homerun P Stmt and good LORs to compensate for being a recent undergrad (i.e. with no extensive work experience). What are you looking to do with a law degree? Cos that might also affect which school you should go to. Personally I think GULC and maybe Cornell might be tough (but as a Cornell grad they may have a soft spot for you). GWU and BU might be OK but because of your lack of significant WE, I don't know what else you can say you did. I think you should be OK at U of I and Fordham..are there any honors, significant extra curriculars, study abroad etc that you have. I don't want you to limit yourself to my advice, apply to as many t-30s as possible, but also know that some may turn you down. If you have faith and do beleive, you'll be surprised what will happen. The worst case is if you don't apply you will definitely not get in.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 09, 2006, 12:38:27 PM
Thanks King Shark.  As far as work experience goes, I am currently a paralegal at a top employment law firm in NYC.  I co-founded from the ground up a successful summer storage business while still a junior in college --grossing over $15,000 in two successive years.  Honors and awards--nothing too extraordinatry but I was active in a number of student org. on campus and a member of the University Board of Health.

This summer, I will work with an  NGO to develop a grassroots women's empowerment campaign in Ghana.

However, I didn't necessarily focus on any of these accomplishments except of course on my resume. Do you think it may be a good idea to write to the schools and discuss the above while i wait.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 09, 2006, 12:40:48 PM
Also King Shark, I would like to work in employment law upon graduation--on the side of the corporations though so I guess corporate law.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: ScoopNY on March 09, 2006, 12:56:14 PM
You still have time. I'd suggest taking the LSAT again if you think you can get closer to 160, I think if you got anything over a 155, you'd be on surer footing especially for GULC or Cornell.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Slow Blues on March 09, 2006, 01:26:25 PM
I think by and large King Shark's advice is good and I think Andromeda's choices make sense. Here's my question: Would you consider re-taking the LSAT this June and applying for admission in 2007? Basis: Applying next year lets you take another crack at the LSAT and get everything in order, from your Ghana campaign to savings for school to re-taking the LSAT. I'm not willing to buy the argument that you just don't test well. I think with enough prep, you can improve your score significantly. The rest of your application is quite polished, but I think it's safe to say the major flaw in the whole thing is your LSAT score. If you really want to go to Georgetown and Cornell, you're going to have to get that score up. It's the only thing holding you back.

If you're waitlisted, I think you'll want to expound on your accomplishments in school, your work experience and your humanitarian goals. If you can, tie in this work to a good reason for wanting to attend the school in question. I'm not certain this will help, but I know it can't hurt.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Stencilasnusky on March 09, 2006, 02:08:03 PM
Holy Scipio...you did all that?? That is awesome. You are right in implying that your p stmt should NOT be in anyway be a recital of your resume. It has to stand out and focus on depth not breadth. Having said that, I wish I could advise you not to take the LSAT (the UPENN admit I mentioned did not retake and he had the same score as yours..he also never wrote an addendum on the LSAT..not testing well etc, but did have significant WE and was a Certified Financial Analyst). I only recommend addendums if they are specifically addressing your strengths and an adverse situation you overcame to be who you are today. But if you really want to aim high you want T-14 schools.I say that cos ..not to sound like an arrogant high nosed prick..but there is a reason why they call the T-14 the T-14..Substantially all of the major players in employment law (and just about any of the major firms) get at least 80% of their folks from t-14. if you feel strongly enough that you CAN get a higher score (remember its averaged), then go for it for Fall 2007. Like Blues said cos a 162 is a heck of a lot different from a 152 and it can open more doors that would otherwise be shut.


Thanks King Shark.  As far as work experience goes, I am currently a paralegal at a top employment law firm in NYC.  I co-founded from the ground up a successful summer storage business while still a junior in college --grossing over $15,000 in two successive years.  Honors and awards--nothing too extraordinatry but I was active in a number of student org. on campus and a member of the University Board of Health.

This summer, I will work with an  NGO to develop a grassroots women's empowerment campaign in Ghana.

However, I didn't necessarily focus on any of these accomplishments except of course on my resume. Do you think it may be a good idea to write to the schools and discuss the above while i wait.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: petitschoque on March 09, 2006, 03:11:11 PM
Candidate06, I think everyone's given you pretty sound advice. Waiting an extra year to see if you can pull up your LSAT score can dramatically improve your options, you might want to consider taking your time.

Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Jontor on March 09, 2006, 06:06:31 PM
Candidate:
I think like someone mentioned earlier..you should get some safeties from my own experience..tough life growing up and all those nice soft factors 159/3.7 gpa with  double major gpa of 4.0 and 3.87 respectively. So far I have been dinged by BC & BU my first T100 acceptance is from Hostra ....though I wasn't really Tier crazy when I was applying, I'm only interested in Law schools that I can attend from my house without relocating. Goodluck with your apps but if you must go to law school this year, you should add some safeties if those schools you applied to are the only ones you are interested listen to what petit said and wait a year and try pull the score up. Goodluck. BTW I'm an African Immiigrant too.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 09, 2006, 06:18:52 PM
Jontor and Everyone else:

Thanks a million.  I think the advice about waiting a year and re-taking the LSAT is solid.  At the same time, is there anything wrong with just waiting to see what happens this cycle and in the meantime beginning to prep. for the June LSAT (since I believe I can do much better than a 152) in case this is a distrous cycle for me?  I just don't necessarily see any real benefit to dropping out of the race at this point since what will be will be.

Also, out of curiosity Jontor, what was your undergraduate?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Stencilasnusky on March 09, 2006, 07:22:36 PM
The only problem is that if you get dinged by a school you really want to go to..you'd have some extra ground to make up if you apply next year . If you do decide to do the exam again, make sure you slay the beast as best as you can and apply to other schools just in case...but like I said, I hate giving this type of advice cos your future plans are btw you and God. There are folks in T-14s and even T-6s with similar stats as yours. Everyone has a story to tell, its how you tell it. I say pray about it and go with your heart..I considered retaking too but I didn't and went with faith!

Jontor and Everyone else:

Thanks a million.  I think the advice about waiting a year and re-taking the LSAT is solid.  At the same time, is there anything wrong with just waiting to see what happens this cycle and in the meantime beginning to prep. for the June LSAT (since I believe I can do much better than a 152) in case this is a distrous cycle for me?  I just don't necessarily see any real benefit to dropping out of the race at this point since what will be will be.

Also, out of curiosity Jontor, what was your undergraduate?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 10, 2006, 06:49:43 AM
This has been really great advice and everyone has been so helpful.  I am going to endure and just pray that I have done something right with my life up to this point.  Praying can only get one so far though--so I am also going to throw in a few more apps to the suggested "safties" although I am not sure I really want to attend any of these--villanova, uconn, and American.

If all else fails, i have a date with June.

Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Common Sense on March 10, 2006, 09:37:47 AM
Candidate:
I think like someone mentioned earlier..you should get some safeties from my own experience..tough life growing up and all those nice soft factors 159/3.7 gpa with  double major gpa of 4.0 and 3.87 respectively. So far I have been dinged by BC & BU my first T100 acceptance is from Hostra ....though I wasn't really Tier crazy when I was applying, I'm only interested in Law schools that I can attend from my house without relocating. Goodluck with your apps but if you must go to law school this year, you should add some safeties if those schools you applied to are the only ones you are interested listen to what petit said and wait a year and try pull the score up. Goodluck. BTW I'm an African Immiigrant too.

Jontor,
Something is going on with your apps--either your recommenders are screwing with you or something is wrong with your personal statements
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 10, 2006, 09:53:11 AM
I think Common Sense may have made a good observation in Jontor's situation.  I know of a black male who was accepted to NYU last year with a slightly lower gpa (non double major etc.) and around the same LSAT.

Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Common Sense on March 10, 2006, 10:06:53 AM
I think Common Sense may have made a good observation in Jontor's situation.  I know of a black male who was accepted to NYU last year with a slightly lower gpa (non double major etc.) and around the same LSAT.



Yep.  jontor hit me up on PM if you need assistance in getting to the bottom of things.  you should have gotten into both BC/BU...
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Jontor on March 10, 2006, 11:58:32 AM
Commonsense:
Well I will like to think so...I send the same LORs 3 of them from my undergrad professors to all the 8 schools I applied to.....one of the letters i read myself cos the prof gave it to me and it was more than awesome the other two i didn't read but the other schools that gave me admission and some good chunk of money read the same letters too that BC & BU read. So I don't know. I should have applied to alot more schools outside of Mass but I doubt if I will go, I have a couple of responsibilities that moviing will seriously jeorpadize . I'm in the process of relocating my parents over here and I already got a big home here, didn't wanna move and all that stuff.
Well like I mentioned on my lsn I appealed the BU and BC dings and today I got a letter from BU another ding and I got a letter from BC on monday telling me they will review my apps again from scratch. Maybe if I applied to top tier schools outside of mass I would have been more appealing to their adcomms who knows. I'm disappointed but not sad, it will be nice to go to BU or BC but as things are panning out I will likely have to choose between Suffolk and Northeastern..I haven't heard from Northeastern yet but according to lsn ppl with stats like mine in the  last two cycles got their acceptances after March 18th.

Commonsense, I will send you my personal statement if you like to read it. I have it read by 3 different profs, all my recommenders and a couple of people on this board they all said it was awesome. Some people get accepted into higher ranked schools than the ones that rejected them so maybe Harvard will like my app but according to lsn Harvard in the last 2 cycles, no one below 160 has been in. I can't help but keep referring to lsn, I should listen to King Shark and not let lsn and lsd be the determinant factor of where I can get in. The only think is that I applied to school that I know I will go to which are all the law schools in mass and one in NH, Hofstra was an anomaly cos they gave me fee waiver and I have lots of friends in LOng Island..even with their scholarship I won't be goiing there.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Common Sense on March 10, 2006, 12:20:32 PM
Commonsense:
Well I will like to think so...I send the same LORs 3 of them from my undergrad professors to all the 8 schools I applied to.....one of the letters i read myself cos the prof gave it to me and it was more than awesome the other two i didn't read but the other schools that gave me admission and some good chunk of money read the same letters too that BC & BU read. So I don't know. I should have applied to alot more schools outside of Mass but I doubt if I will go, I have a couple of responsibilities that moviing will seriously jeorpadize . I'm in the process of relocating my parents over here and I already got a big home here, didn't wanna move and all that stuff.
Well like I mentioned on my lsn I appealed the BU and BC dings and today I got a letter from BU another ding and I got a letter from BC on monday telling me they will review my apps again from scratch. Maybe if I applied to top tier schools outside of mass I would have been more appealing to their adcomms who knows. I'm disappointed but not sad, it will be nice to go to BU or BC but as things are panning out I will likely have to choose between Suffolk and Northeastern..I haven't heard from Northeastern yet but according to lsn ppl with stats like mine in the  last two cycles got their acceptances after March 18th.

Commonsense, I will send you my personal statement if you like to read it. I have it read by 3 different profs, all my recommenders and a couple of people on this board they all said it was awesome. Some people get accepted into higher ranked schools than the ones that rejected them so maybe Harvard will like my app but according to lsn Harvard in the last 2 cycles, no one below 160 has been in. I can't help but keep referring to lsn, I should listen to King Shark and not let lsn and lsd be the determinant factor of where I can get in. The only think is that I applied to school that I know I will go to which are all the law schools in mass and one in NH, Hofstra was an anomaly cos they gave me fee waiver and I have lots of friends in LOng Island..even with their scholarship I won't be goiing there.

jontor I'll look over your statement, but it really might be letter 2+3.  for the other schools, your numbers were high enough that your profs would have to write "jontor is a mass murderer on the prowl just waiting to kill a few more" for you to be rejectd--that you weren't at the very least waitlisted at BC/BU means something is seriously wrong.

is that 159 averaged or straight up?
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Jontor on March 10, 2006, 12:28:54 PM
Straight up I will pm you my personal statement in a minute
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 10, 2006, 12:31:10 PM
Jontor honestly,

Your situation takes the cake--I think you were screwed!  Some preliminary stats from LSN (I am not saying this a definitive source on anything but its useful when used appropriately):

Check these folks out:
http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=Essyta
http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=NalaUnto

This guy even overcame a 147 to be accepted to BC
http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=Tale1

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=Can101

Just some food for thought.
Title: advice?
Post by: bravesgrl07 on March 10, 2006, 12:33:36 PM

hi all, i'm an african american female, 3.6 GPA and LSAT of 155, double majoring in 2 sciences, lots of volunteer work domestically and some work/research abroad...any suggestions on where to apply next year?
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: Slow Blues on March 10, 2006, 12:36:25 PM
Where do you want to practice?
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Jontor on March 10, 2006, 12:39:07 PM
I saw all of those lsn numbers already. Well what can I do nothing..I actually have to go start geting ready for diversity welcome weekend at Suffolk that starts tonite. Let me know what you think of the ps...already pmmed to you
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: bravesgrl07 on March 10, 2006, 12:40:42 PM

not sure yet where i want to practice...just want to get a general feel for which schools would be reaches/safeties
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: Jontor on March 10, 2006, 12:44:41 PM
Bravegrl....dont let lsd or lsn determine where you should apply (Cpoied from King Shark's book). Apply anywhere you want to go, work hard on your ps, and get some good lors and then sit and wait.  Goodluck
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Jontor on March 10, 2006, 12:47:28 PM
Seem like a lot more people want to read my ps..I will try to host it when I come back tonite from the Suffolk party. BUt anyone interested pm me I will gladly send
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: Slow Blues on March 10, 2006, 12:51:17 PM
Arizona, Cal-Davis, Cal-Hastings, UConn, DePaul, Florida and Florida State, George Mason, GW, Illinois, Miami, UMD, Seton Hall, St. Johns, San Diego, Villanova, just to start. These are mainly targets. I would probably go ahead and apply to a few Top 14 schools just to see what might happen.
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: bravesgrl07 on March 10, 2006, 12:55:21 PM

any t-14 in particular?
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: Stencilasnusky on March 10, 2006, 01:31:14 PM
THE KING SHARK HERE!!! (All bow before me  ;D ;D!!!).. Hi Brave...follow my motto: Don't let LSD or LSN or XOXO or whatever decide where you want to apply. You can go anywhere and do anything if you believe (sounds corny..but its actually what Jesus practiced and preached..not to corner you on religion)..spend sometime thinking about what you see yourself doing (law school ain't cheap so you should'nt go into it with no plan)...I used the following factors: strength of the academic program in particular disciplines, location, weather, reputation, job opportunities, family considerations etc.. go with that and with your heart and you'll narrow down your choices pretty quickly, since in the end you can only attend one.




any t-14 in particular?
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: Common Sense on March 10, 2006, 02:39:21 PM

any t-14 in particular?
Cornell, Duke, Northwestern will be reaches but if you have an excellent personal statement you should definitely go for it
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: 2Lacoste on March 10, 2006, 03:00:26 PM
I would recommend Michigan as well.  Also, if you feel you can do better, you might think about retaking the LSAT.  That is a solid score but every point helps!  Good luck!
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: Steph_A on March 10, 2006, 10:46:42 PM
I agree with many of the other people. Don't self-select yourself out of the the running just because you don't have the highest lsat. I would apply to a wide range of schools because admissions philosophies can vary to the point that you can get accepted into a higher ranked school based on your volunteer experience but rejected from some lower ranked schools based on numbers. Work on having a strong personal statement and letters of rec. Also, make sure that you apply early.
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: team mvp on March 11, 2006, 08:45:21 AM

any t-14 in particular?

Your best shot is at schools ranked 7-14.  Though you could throw a few apps above that for kicks.
Title: Re: advice?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 11, 2006, 12:26:50 PM
ditto on the advice of others who have warned about limiting your options just because we said so.  In other words, take our advice with a grain of salt - we're not admissions committees.  I've seen cats with your numbers get into 3rd, 2nd and 1st tier law schools, including the top 14.
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: candidate06 on March 13, 2006, 02:05:28 PM
A ray of light (hope) for others in my position:

I just recieved my ACCEPTANCE TO GW.

Good Luck to Everyone and Thanks for all your help!
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Stencilasnusky on March 13, 2006, 03:57:07 PM
Congrats Candidate...see you didn't have much to worry about afterall. Enjoy GWU, if that is where your heart is set on going. Otherwise, believe for more and you'll get it..
Title: Re: Need Help--Chances
Post by: Jontor on March 13, 2006, 07:36:32 PM
Congrats Candidate!! more is definetly on the way! Goodluck
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: jnc18 on June 07, 2006, 11:44:30 PM
You should probably add a few more safety schools.
Title: Re: Can I get into Yale with this??
Post by: jnc18 on June 07, 2006, 11:45:21 PM
I have a 1.0 GPA and a 119 on the LSAT, can I get into Yale with that? If not, can I get into a T14?  If not, where can I get into?  I have an upward trend on my grades and I should admit that I took the LSAT prior to getting the 119 and I got a 100 and a 110, so I am improving?  Do schools take the highest score or the average?  Please someone help me.

You'll be good to go at most of the T-14
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: bluesmoke on June 07, 2006, 11:55:41 PM
I would apply to all the T14 if I were you... you're black and you have a 165... that's good.  Cast a wide net.
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: John Galt on June 08, 2006, 06:13:04 AM
isn't he already in at Columbia and attending?
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: Slow Blues on June 08, 2006, 07:16:51 AM
isn't he already in at Columbia and attending?

LOL, yes I am. Who dredged this up? What made Ruskie come back here?
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: jnc18 on June 08, 2006, 10:17:36 AM
isn't he already in at Columbia and attending?

Haha, yes.  In case you didn't notice, I went back and responded to a bunch of ridiculously old posts last night.

Basically to be a bit off a jackass because i was bored.

BTW, nice prescience on this one!
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: John Galt on June 08, 2006, 10:18:59 AM
isn't he already in at Columbia and attending?

Haha, yes.  In case you didn't notice, I went back and responded to a bunch of ridiculously old posts last night.

Basically to be a bit off a jackass because i was bored.

BTW, nice prescience on this one!

lol, I should've known Jay. I was like, why the hell is he bumping old ass threads?
Title: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: jfields32 on June 08, 2006, 11:24:33 AM
on my second diagnostic got a 163, i think i can ge to a 170-172. Will that be good enough for Georgetown ED, or Fordham George Washington.

My GPA is mainly from being lazy and concentrating too much on college bball
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: jfields32 on June 08, 2006, 11:29:06 AM
black
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on June 08, 2006, 11:29:20 AM
on my second diagnostic got a 163, i think i can ge to a 170-172. Will that be good enough for Georgetown ED, or Fordham George Washington


Where's that 2.8 from, and in what major? Do you have an upward grade trend? Are you male? That will help much more than being a black female.


I think a 172 will get you into Georgetown ED and maybe another higher T14.
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: jfields32 on June 08, 2006, 11:30:50 AM
Its from Muhlenberg College, but not really an upward trend.
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on June 08, 2006, 11:32:28 AM
Its from Muhlenberg College, but not really an upward trend.


eh, yea I dunno. Just try to kill the LSAT, and once you get a score you can focus on a list of schools.
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: Slow Blues on June 08, 2006, 11:35:45 AM
Any work experience or extracurriculars? These could definitely help in your position.

Lady Trojan gives good advice. I did PR and was fairly pleased with my score, but if I had to do it over again, I would opt for Powerscore or Testmasters.
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: jnc18 on June 08, 2006, 11:39:15 AM
on my second diagnostic got a 163, i think i can ge to a 170-172. Will that be good enough for Georgetown ED, or Fordham George Washington.

My GPA is mainly from being lazy and concentrating too much on college bball

Assuming from non-TTT school and in non-TTT major.  Also, that your application is air-tight.  Also that you write a good statement on how bball and how your GPA doesn't reflect anything close to your abilities.  Also that you're a black male:

A 2.8/170 will get you:

Everywhere outside the top-14 except UCLA.
In at Georgetown
In at Northwestern if you have work experience, otherwise, 60%
Don't know about Cornell
50% at Duke
No shot at Berkeley.
In at UMich
50% at UVa
30% at UPenn
50% at U Chicago
25% at NYU
20% at Columbia
25% at Harvard
5% at Stanford
No shot at Yale
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: jnc18 on June 08, 2006, 11:41:18 AM
Thing is, I don't know anything about how practice tests and diagnostics and such match up with your actual score, but from previous posts I've seen, I'm not sure you can count on busting 170.
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: jfields32 on June 08, 2006, 11:42:52 AM
Just wanting to know its possible, now its time to bust my butt studying for the LSAT.  

If i write something about my gpa/basketball will they think im whining and hold it against me?

you right about getting a 170 being uncertain, but im pretty sure i at lesat get in the 167 - 170 range.
Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: Slow Blues on June 08, 2006, 11:44:39 AM
Thing is, I don't know anything about how practice tests and diagnostics and such match up with your actual score, but from previous posts I've seen, I'm not sure you can count on busting 170.

My rough measuring stick is to subtract 3-5 points from your average diagnostic score.

Title: Re: 2.8 URM taking Princeton Review Course...
Post by: jnc18 on June 08, 2006, 11:46:23 AM
Just wanting to know its possible, now its time to bust my butt studying for the LSAT.  

If i write something about my gpa/basketball will they think im whining and hold it against me?

You BETTER write something about your GPA.  Just write it well, as everything in your application must be written.  Don't make it whiny and don't make it sound like you're trying to excuse yourself.  It should be explanatory and almost apologetic, as if you were just an unfocused young man at the time.  It certainly helps if you are a couple of years removed from it.
Title: Re: 165, 3.14, URM, How's my list look?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on June 08, 2006, 11:58:25 AM
Alci just wants people to apply to Yale to ensure their US news Rankings stays as high as it is. We wouldnt want Virginia to creep up and take your spot.  ;)
Title: Very dissapointed today
Post by: bkoroma22 on June 29, 2006, 04:17:56 PM
I studied by myself for the LSAT because I couldn't afford the test preps. I bought countless books but I only got a 147. Do I have any chance, I have a 3.5 GPA and graduated undergrad in three years? What schools do I have a chance with as an African American and where do I found out where I could fit in terms of scales.
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on June 29, 2006, 04:24:31 PM
You can get into some good schools...perhaps with the new ABA policy you should think about re-taking.  What books did you buy?  How much did you study?  Did you use offical exams (including the lastest ones)?
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: cui bono? on June 29, 2006, 04:34:37 PM
Hey sweetie- I sent you a PM.  I too scored extremely low on the LSAT but had a good GPA. I was DEVASTATED! Try the book Best 117 Law Schools   by Eric Owens and The Staff of the Princeton Review.  You can take review courses or maybe even gwet a tutor.  Lots of tops scorers do it to get money for books-  You could even go on a LS campus and look at the board in the student center to see if there's anyone available.  I knew one guy in NY who did it for about $20-$30/hour.  Official tutors run you about $100.

I sent you some schools in your PM.  You still have a lot of options!  You could retake if you want to, don't feel pressured.
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: LomeAC on June 29, 2006, 04:35:52 PM
I agree with Miss Celie Blues. You should definately consider re-taking the test. Any improvement is worth it.
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: pikey on June 29, 2006, 04:42:14 PM
Nova's Master the Lsat and LSAC Superprep are both great.  I've also heard lots of good things about the Logic Games Bible.  Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.  Another great person to PM is Vera (SunFunLiving) who has an excellent lsat study plan.  She made significant gains from the 140s.  And of course there's lots of info on the LSAT board.

You can find out where you fit in terms of scales on the lsac website.  Law school numbers is also helpful in determining where people with similar numbers got in.
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: bkoroma22 on June 29, 2006, 04:43:51 PM
I have three years working experience that might help. I worked as a paralegal for a year and two years as an underwriting analyst for Aetna. I hope that helps. I'm going to reconsider takign it again, but I'm looking at Widner as of now. I'm in southern NJ and thats the best bet right now. I have better marks than some of the people who went there according to Lawschoolnumbers.com
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 29, 2006, 04:50:34 PM
what were you getting on your practice exams and where do/did you want to go?
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on June 29, 2006, 04:50:44 PM
Moni, you found the Nova book to be good with games?  That's a weakness of mine, reminds me too much of math.

Also, bkoroma, what materials did you use to study?
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: cui bono? on June 29, 2006, 04:55:53 PM
I have three years working experience that might help. I worked as a paralegal for a year and two years as an underwriting analyst for Aetna. I hope that helps. I'm going to reconsider takign it again, but I'm looking at Widner as of now. I'm in southern NJ and thats the best bet right now. I have better marks than some of the people who went there according to Lawschoolnumbers.com

Your work experience is great.  Sure reconsider taking it again after you prepare- give it all u can and then some!  Perhaps study w/ tutor.  Definitely go get that book I mentioned, it put my mind @ ease.  And remember the test is just that - a test. Most ppl say the LSAT isn't  a good predictor of anything except of how well you do on the LSAT!  I just don't want you to get discouraged.  If you retake and get a score less than what you wanted, write an addendum to your application.    

EDIT: you should really just stick to actual LSAT tests.  10 Actual Offical LSAT preptests  and 10 More Actual Offical LSAT preptests
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: pikey on June 29, 2006, 04:59:15 PM
Moni, you found the Nova book to be good with games?  That's a weakness of mine, reminds me too much of math.

Also, bkoroma, what materials did you use to study?

I thought Nova was great with games.  It was pretty much all I used to learn them, other than practice in Superprep.  Nova really sets things out like a class, teaching smaller parts of a concept, then you practice it, then it introduces the full concept with practice.
I also bought Kaplan 180, but didn't think it was that great at all at teaching anything, so I just went through it for practice.
Title: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on June 29, 2006, 05:07:32 PM
curious ...for those of you admitted to say schools in the top 50 (top 14 perferabley but trying to be realistic) what is considered a good score for a minority...keep it real please no b.s. i'm wondering if i should bother applying to some schools with my score....
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: A. on June 29, 2006, 05:11:38 PM
What's your GPA?
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: chewy06 on June 29, 2006, 05:13:17 PM
http://www.chiashu.com/lsat.html (http://www.chiashu.com/lsat.html)

http://officialguide.lsac.org/docs/cgi-bin/home.asp (http://officialguide.lsac.org/docs/cgi-bin/home.asp)
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on June 29, 2006, 05:13:40 PM
weeell thats the thing i graduated in 05 with a 3.44 but i worked full-time in military and for government. but im an old head and went to college the 1st time waaay back in the 90s and f-ed up so my lsac gpa is really low...i plan on explaining and its been over 15 years since then so im hoping they will look at my 3.4
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on June 29, 2006, 05:14:38 PM
chiasu is useless because you can't put in soft factors, i have many....thats why im asking people who were accepted what they're scores were...
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Inquirer on June 29, 2006, 05:16:46 PM
I'm going to admit to a bit of stalking here...

Jarhead, I went back and read your last posts (b/c you have so few I figured I'd take the time to do so).  You got a 170, right?   Since I am not in the group of people you wish to respond to your original question, I'll not offer up my opinion, but maybe someone in your target group can tell you whether or not a 170 is a good score for a minority.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Happy_Weasel on June 29, 2006, 05:19:42 PM
With a 3.44/170 URM... you can do anything you want. HYS is still a long shot, but not a hail mary and the other 11 purely blue-blooded schools would probably be happy to accept you, heck, anything past Michigan and Duke would give could give you free money.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on June 29, 2006, 05:23:10 PM
yes i got a 170 but my lsac gpa is only a 2.4 even with my 3.44 gpa...apps are expensive i dont want to drop 75 bucks to a school thats not going to let me in....
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: A. on June 29, 2006, 05:28:52 PM
Hm, while soft factors definitely do matter, schools care about numbers above everything else.  I definitely do not want to discourage you from applying to the T14...your background makes your chances very difficult to predict, and I think you have a shot.  But if LSAC is calculating your GPA as a 2.4, then I would caution against getting your hopes up.  Your best bet is to suck up the cost and apply to all of the top 25, minus those you would never attend.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on June 29, 2006, 05:53:05 PM
King Matthies II ..sir <--(assumption) thank you very helpful...i have addendums up the wahzoo...im staying realistic i know my lsat is good but im not getting my hopes up my reach schools will be UCLA USC and maybe one here in the DC area...the rest will  be lsat avg of around 160-165
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 29, 2006, 06:12:07 PM
Because UCLA tends to be a bit of a gpa lover, I think you'd actually have a better shot at Duke and/or Cornell.  With your work experience, you should also seriously consider applying to Northwestern.  Really work on crafting your personal statement(s) and I think you'll be surprised what doors will open up.  Let us know if we can help in any way.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on June 29, 2006, 07:12:17 PM
will do...im trying to get into entertainment law so im really looking at schools in ny, la, miami, or atlanta...
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Jolie Was Here on June 29, 2006, 07:17:44 PM
Don't despair.  uGPA is easier to overcome than LSAT, particularly as a non-trad with other experiences.  My LSAC uGPA was 2.6 and I managed some acceptances that I'm very pleased with.

My best advice?  Craft a meticulous, well thought-out application and spread those applications around.  Be prepared to possibly ride the waitlist roller-coaster.  Your #s and experience give you a good shot at a great school.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Very dissapointed today
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on June 30, 2006, 07:03:43 AM
JUst take a real LSAT once a week from now till october and retake. It sounds like you were trying hard but didnt know what to study. I cosign with finally a real LSAT test under real conditions once or twice a week from now until october and spend the next day going over it identifying weakness and correcting test taking errors. Your score will go up.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on June 30, 2006, 07:12:28 AM
If I were you I would go for UCLA or Bloat. Write a good memorandum but the GPA is going to make the T14 difficult.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on June 30, 2006, 07:15:41 AM
If I were you I would go for UCLA or Bloat. Write a good memorandum but the GPA is going to make the T14 difficult.

I would say given the OPs interest in entertainment law, USC is a better bet.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on June 30, 2006, 07:26:20 AM
didnt catch that. I stand corrected CN  :)
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jnc18 on June 30, 2006, 07:34:57 AM
With a 3.44/170 URM... you can do anything you want. HYS is still a long shot, but not a hail mary and the other 11 purely blue-blooded schools would probably be happy to accept you, heck, anything past Michigan and Duke would give could give you free money.

To make an addendum to this, a 3.44/170 black male is auto-admit at Harvard and everything below that (with possible exception of UCs) .  You would have a good shot at Stanford and a pretty good one at Yale, particularly when taking your experience and soft factors into account.

But if your LSAC GPA is more like a 2.4, then it will be much more of an adventure.  I'll go ahead and say bot UCLA and Boalt, your chances are closer to 0% than 1%.  So I'd say to look at Northwestern, Georgetown (has PT if interested) and Michigan as your best bets for T14.  After that USC, GW, and all the schools ranked in the 20s and 30s that you'd be interested in as your other top targets.  Then whatever T2 schools you'd be interested in + Howard (if interested).
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: TruOne on June 30, 2006, 10:28:17 AM
Wait. . .let me get this straight. You are a

Black Man. . .

with a. ..

170. . . .


Military Service. . . .


Non-Traditoinal Student. . .

and you have to WONDER if you'll get into  a T1 school?

I hate you Ron Burgondey



*leaves the post*
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 30, 2006, 10:43:13 AM
curious ...for those of you admitted to say schools in the top 50 (top 14 perferabley but trying to be realistic) what is considered a good score for a minority...keep it real please no b.s. i'm wondering if i should bother applying to some schools with my score....

No disrespect, but I really really really really (x infinity) do not like this type of mentality.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Jolie Was Here on June 30, 2006, 10:47:07 AM
A 170 is a great score for anybody.  Period.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on June 30, 2006, 10:50:36 AM
A 170 is a great score for anybody.  Period.

Right.  Exactly my point.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: 2Lacoste on June 30, 2006, 11:09:01 AM
I know a couple of people at Harvard this year with LSAC GPAs under 3.0.  And I think they had lower LSATs too.  Just apply early and wide (do as many of the T14 as possible, and do a bunch of safeties in the 15-30 range).  With a 170 and that experience, you're golden if you apply early and put your best foot forward.  Good luck and keep us posted, man!
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on June 30, 2006, 11:37:48 AM
"No disrespect, but I really really really really (x infinity) do not like this type of mentality."

ok, also no disrespect, not that i have to explain myself...but law schools do not give out minority specific information...so that is why i caveated my question with "for a minority" i know that a 170 is a good score, i prepared my a-- of to get it. but i am trying to honestly asses my chances with such a low gpa...which is why i asked for people's specific experience as that is a better indicator than all the b.s. that schools will tell you to get your $75. thank you to everyone who has responded your information has been helpful
Title: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: ladylegal on July 01, 2006, 08:33:35 PM
Hey,

I got a 162 (june 06)
3.3 (lsdas 3.0) undergrad
3.5 grad

I'm only considering nyc schools. Anyone with similiar stats get into columbia,nyu with even a little bit of money?

I think my chances with fordham, cardozo,brooklyn and st.johns are solid.

I'm also applying to hofstra, cuny, pace and new york as my safety schools.

So what do u guys think my chances are?
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: jnc18 on July 01, 2006, 09:36:58 PM
So your numbers are 3.0 and 162.

you haven't given anymore info on what your application will look like, but based on numbers alone it's seems like you pretty much know the situation.

you'll get into all your "safeties"

should be good at cardozo, brooklyn, st. john's.  and i'd expect you in at fordham.

i wouldn't count on nyu, although there is a small outside shot.  worth applying.  columbia will be even tougher, but worth a shot.
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: Hybrid Vigor on July 02, 2006, 11:00:32 AM
I only really know about the T14 so I can't comment on the other schools except I'd say don't bank on Fordham because I know URMs with better #s than yours who got the cold shoulder (outright rejected) this past cycle. Maybe Fordham's looking to advance in the US News ranking by raising its standards.

Is that so?



Man, where is mivida?
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 02, 2006, 11:19:28 AM
Um yea, the last sentence that CN bolded stuck out to me as well.

Lady trojan, are you implying that raising one's standards automatically implies rejecting URMs with possibly lower numbers?
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: Lawprofessor on July 02, 2006, 11:34:24 AM
Lets not be too sensitive people.  I read the statement as saying Fordham is raising its standards, and as such raising ones standards automatically implies rejecting ANYONE with possibly lower numbers.
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 02, 2006, 01:38:06 PM
I think you should apply to both columbia and nyu. You won't get merit money, but you might get in.  What was your graduate degree in?  Do you have a compelling reason that your gpa was a 3.0? Were you working a lot, did you have a tough major, did you have one or 2 really bad terms, was there an upward trend?

fwiw, I sincerely doubt fordham is getting a lot of Black folk with 160+ LSATs, even if they are "raising their standards."  Lady Trojan, what kind of "URMS" are you talking about? Minorities are not interchangeable.
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: ladylegal on July 02, 2006, 02:26:35 PM
My grades started out like crap I really BS my first couple of semesters then I got serious and turned it around so there is a definite upward trend. My actually GPA is a 3.39 but however lsdas calculates it,  they report it as a 3.0. They do note however Academic Honors if that helps.I worked 40 hours a week the entire time I was in school all through grad school. Paid for both my brothers to go to private schools. My  grad degree is in Political Science (3.5) and I have a lot of community service under my belt. 
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: TruOne on July 02, 2006, 02:47:47 PM
I think you should apply to wherever the hell you want. The fact that you are a Darkie and you got a 162 puts you in Ivy League Range

"Yeah right, not with those numbers"

Actually yeah, I know one girl got W/L at UPENN and she had a 154.

Send off the application and let the Adcomms tell you yes/no, don't eliminate yourself from the race before you ever start.
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on July 02, 2006, 03:24:24 PM
I think you should apply to wherever the hell you want. The fact that you are a Darkie and you got a 162 puts you in Ivy League Range

"Yeah right, not with those numbers"

Actually yeah, I know one girl got W/L at UPENN and she had a 154.

Send off the application and let the Adcomms tell you yes/no, don't eliminate yourself from the race before you ever start.

LOL

I think the bottom line advice has always been to APPLY EVERYWHERE

There was a white female who got into Columbia in the 2004-2005 term with a 150-something so you never know. Let the school tell you no.
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: OingoBoingo on July 02, 2006, 06:10:59 PM
Apply everywhere, like the others have said. With a well crafted personal statement, pretty much anything can happen with your numbers.

Oingo
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Jas on July 02, 2006, 11:07:58 PM
curious ...for those of you admitted to say schools in the top 50 (top 14 perferabley but trying to be realistic) what is considered a good score for a minority...keep it real please no b.s. i'm wondering if i should bother applying to some schools with my score....

Good LSAT for us is like 165+ and I mean that's possibly top 5 material.  For the ladies they have to work a little bit harder.
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 03, 2006, 12:55:36 AM
fwiw, I sincerely doubt fordham is getting a lot of Black folk with 160+ LSATs, even if they are "raising their standards."  Lady Trojan, what kind of "URMS" are you talking about? Minorities are not interchangeable.

Both Hispanic. I don't think I misused the term "URM" because as far as I know, Hispanics and Native Americans also receive special consideration under Affirmative Action, in addition to African Americans. Also, why wouldn't fordham receive applications from Afr Amers with 160+ LSATs--is there something about the school that repels Afr Amer applicants?

You're wrong; please stop giving out bad advice. Underrepresented minorities are not looked at as one big group of interchangeable people in the admissions process, which means that the numbers for different groups' acceptances might be different. Let's put it this blunt but straightforward way: The "boost" for Latinos is not as much as the "boost" for African-Americans.  (I think this largely has to do with the f*cked up way that Mexicans/Puerto Ricans are usually put in the same generic Latino category as more privileged Cubans/some South Americans, which means that the average LSAT score among Latinos is higher than that of African Americans.  Same thing happens to Asians.) Thus, your Hispanic friends' fates don't really tell us much about an African American's chances--which is why that generic "URM" label is pretty useless without unpacking it.

Re: Fordham--I didn't say Fordham will not get 160+ applicants; I'm just saying 160+ Black applicants wouldn't usually choose to attend Fordham (unless they have a bad gpa problem, didn't apply to top tier schools, or absolutely must be in NYC and didn't get into NYU or Columbia.) Why go to Fordham when you can go to a T14?
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 03, 2006, 12:58:21 AM
My grades started out like crap I really BS my first couple of semesters then I got serious and turned it around so there is a definite upward trend. My actually GPA is a 3.39 but however lsdas calculates it,  they report it as a 3.0. They do note however Academic Honors if that helps.I worked 40 hours a week the entire time I was in school all through grad school. Paid for both my brothers to go to private schools. My  grad degree is in Political Science (3.5) and I have a lot of community service under my belt. 

Hmm...this sounds like a pretty compelling story. Working your way though school and paying for your bros private schools sounds like good material for both personal statement stuff and addenda (though you don't want your addenda to just repeat parts of your PS.)  With a well-crafted application I'm sure you can get into NYU and/or Columbia.
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 03, 2006, 07:13:29 AM
I got money at UVA and NW with a 157 its possible.
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: ladylegal on July 03, 2006, 07:47:36 AM
Thanks to everyone for all the advice it has been helpful. I do intend to apply everywhere, I mean what's the worst that can happen I get rejected right. I'm  even thinking about applying to schools outside of nyc even though certain schools may be counterproductive since I want to practice in nyc only  but what the hell, I'm not trying to limit myself ya know.

Does anyone know how the application fee wavier works? I know that certain schools require a lsac wavier to even been considered but is there anyway to get around that?
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 03, 2006, 08:21:13 AM
Step one

-Do well on the LSAT

Step two

-Check your mailbox/e-mail

Step three

-Apply online and its already credited
Title: Re: anyone fall within my numbers?
Post by: faith2005 on July 03, 2006, 08:25:48 AM
my numbers were somewhat similar to yours. i was waitlisted and rejected from nyu and waitlisted at columbia. my lsat was lower and my gpa was higher, but it was a similar range. you should apply to those schools, but make sure you get all of the help you can from folks in terms of crafting addenda and your personal statement. i didn't write an addendum or anything like that--mostly b/c i had never seen this site. not that i think my story was all that compelling. lol. good luck!
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 03, 2006, 08:29:43 AM
If everything else is good you can be in the high 150's white or black. I know a white protestant male who is going to NYU with a 159 LSAT and a 3.8 GPA. If you are a good canadiate who the school believes will produce dividends when you graduate they will take you perios. They have a couple hundred other people they can use to push up there LSAT averages.

Look at the guy who was bush's personal aide going to HArvard business school.....without a undergrad degree. You know why he took him? Because he will be active and produce immediatly upon graduation. At the end of the day thats the important thing. Not the LSAT. No school whats to have a bunch of 170 LSAT scorers who are gonna be nobodys and be unproductive when they leave. Harvard is
Harvard and Yale is Yale because if you take the numbers away they have incredible stories/backgrounds/gifts/potential to be influential. That is how you build you reputation in long run. Not trying to get the best testatkers.

Thats why schools bend for minorities. Not just affirmative action, its becuase the test scores and gpas dont always equate to their capacity to be influential in the areas they operate. You would be much more effective finding ways to look like you are about somthing and are going to be somthing in the future than obsessing over a test you already took.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on July 03, 2006, 08:44:19 AM
im not sure if the above comment is addressed to me or the board in general...but i assure you I am not obsessing. I have a job that pays very well...I would like to go to law school but If I dont get in anywhere I will continue to do what i have been doing for the past 7 years, it will not be the end of the world. I really don't want to get into a discussion about affirmative action because it is a complicated and volatile issue. i have said it before and I will say it again. i have read many places that minorities tend to not apply to top ranked law schools becasue they assume their numbers are too low and they will not get in. I was asking for specific examples of students who were accepted into said schools in order to make an educated decision about where i should apply. i know ultimately it will be up to me and the application i put together. that being said i continue to appreciate the helpful comments i have recieved here particularly from those of you who are or were in the same boat.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 03, 2006, 08:50:05 AM
Oh its not addressed to you man. Just everyone who seems to miss the point as a whole about what adcomms academic institutions want in the longrun. And what really trumps everythng else. Nothing to you man.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 03, 2006, 08:58:26 AM
I was just saying your numbers are fine like I said I had a 157 ad got into a few top tens and a top 5. But what got me in is how I set up my application to convince adcoms I am actually going to do somthing other then fade into obsurity processing dui's and traffic tickets. No one is really saying this so Im trying to get that out there. An LSAT score is not going to define you in the admissions process unless you let it. Wasnt really talking about affirmative action. Just dont let cats on here or any board define you with an LSAT score. Just show them why you could end of being one of the schools marquee alumni onday. You dont have to say that just show you have that kind of potential.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 03, 2006, 10:22:30 AM
It's a crap shoot.  Apply wide and early.  Remember -- 158, in at Harvard (friend of mine).  Anything is possible.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on July 03, 2006, 12:57:48 PM


Thats why schools bend for minorities. Not just affirmative action, its becuase the test scores and gpas dont always equate to their capacity to be influential in the areas they operate. You would be much more effective finding ways to look like you are about somthing and are going to be somthing in the future than obsessing over a test you already took.


TITCR
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on July 03, 2006, 01:13:39 PM
 "Just dont let cats on here or any board define you with an LSAT score. Just show them why you could end of being one of the schools marquee alumni onday. You dont have to say that just show you have that kind of potential"

got it...i agree...i got into Cornell University as an undergrad when everybody and their mama was telling me not to waste my time so im definately in agreement...law school is more competitive than undergrad of course but i think im going to give Harvard a chance to tell me no.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: THE BLUE SWEATER on July 03, 2006, 01:16:40 PM
wise decision
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Jas on July 03, 2006, 01:24:46 PM


Thats why schools bend for minorities. Not just affirmative action, its becuase the test scores and gpas dont always equate to their capacity to be influential in the areas they operate. You would be much more effective finding ways to look like you are about somthing and are going to be somthing in the future than obsessing over a test you already took.


TITCR

Ok I just have to ask... what's TITCR?
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Inquirer on July 03, 2006, 01:55:38 PM
Jas -

TITCR = That Is The Credited Response
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: jarhead on July 04, 2006, 01:01:35 PM
damn...damn ...damn! i have no idea what to write about in my personal statement. I cant write about anything i do at work because it involves things i can't discuss...(anyone working in DC/No. VA probably knows what im talking about) which sucks because it requires similar skills to those i would need in law school but anyway...just needed to vent before the barbeque....
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: pikey on July 04, 2006, 01:14:19 PM
damn...damn ...damn! i have no idea what to write about in my personal statement. I cant write about anything i do at work because it involves things i can't discuss...(anyone working in DC/No. VA probably knows what im talking about) which sucks because it requires similar skills to those i would need in law school but anyway...just needed to vent before the barbeque....

I totally agree!!!  Right now the personal statement is the bane of my existence.  I thought I wrote a decent enough draft last night, but apparently it isn't personal and unique enough.  Eh.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on July 04, 2006, 02:08:20 PM
I think I worked on that piece of trash for about 2 years off and on from the time I started to the time I finally got done.  Good luck with that.
Title: Re: good lsat score
Post by: pikey on July 04, 2006, 03:16:15 PM
I think I worked on that piece of trash for about 2 years off and on from the time I started to the time I finally got done.  Good luck with that.

Boo.  I definitely don't have two years.  And why'd you start so early?
Title: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: lakers4life on July 04, 2006, 07:18:40 PM
What would be good choices for safety schools. I was thinking of applying to:

Reaches:

Harvard(my aunt is forcing me to apply)
UMich EA/ED
Georgetown EA/ED
UVA
UPenn
Cornell

Maybe

GW
Fordham
Emory
UNC
Miami
BU
W&L

Safety

Harvard
Temple
?

These threads probably pop up a lot im but im really having trouble with where to apply because no one on lsn has near my spread as well as being a urm(black male). Since I am the first in my family to ever go though grad school, I have gotten each of 8 family members to pay for 2 schools. That’s means 16 applications, is this good way to divide them up or am I being too risky with my choices.  My 2.8(should have went to class) is from a tier one private LAC and I was an econ/poli sci major. Played 2 D3 sports and was in a couple of organizations.
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: mivida2k on July 04, 2006, 07:25:49 PM
Welcome.  There is no such thing as a safety school.  You never know what the AdComs are looking for when accessing your application. Look at US News and lawschoolnumbers.com.  That may assist you in how your numbers fit with other applications.

On another note I suggest that you not reference the Lakers in your application. :D
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 04, 2006, 07:42:26 PM
welcome to the board lakers4life.

can you show an upward grade trend?  do you have any work experience? 
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: lakers4life on July 04, 2006, 07:47:02 PM
I ruined my upward trend last marking period by letting some stupid things interfere with work.  I also have no significant work experience that will help.  I prob have a couple of really good recommendations though.
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 04, 2006, 07:50:08 PM
have you graduated yet or do you have the possibility of pulling up your gpa?
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: lakers4life on July 04, 2006, 07:54:54 PM
No im graduating in ’07.  But I plan to apply early to most schools, so im not sure how much increasing my gpa will help but I plan on doing it just in case it can get me off a waitlist or something.
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: One Step Ahead on July 04, 2006, 08:08:55 PM
No im graduating in ’07.  But I plan to apply early to most schools, so im not sure how much increasing my gpa will help but I plan on doing it just in case it can get me off a waitlist or something.

ok on safeties do you have a geographical preference?  I think you could add UGA, Rutgers, American, Catholic

edit: I'd also add Duke as a reach
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: justGem on July 05, 2006, 07:33:59 AM
You should apply to whatever schools you feels would be a good match but if there is a restraint on the number of apps you can pay for I would add more safeties and delete a few far reaches.  Also, don't forget that you will likely recieve some fee waivers.
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: lakers4life on July 05, 2006, 11:46:36 AM
opps i meant howard as a safety not harvard. 
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: redemption on July 05, 2006, 12:12:33 PM
WUSL & Minnesota are good schools that are forgiving wrt to low GPAs. 166 is the bright line for both of them.

Also -- AU should be a safety for you.

This is how I'd pick it:

Reaches:
Harvard
Cornell
Georgetown
Michigan
UVA
Duke


Mid-range:
Minnesota
WUSL
Fordham
GW


Safety:
American
Cardozo
Miami
Temple
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: thorc954 on July 09, 2006, 12:33:44 PM
hey, i think you have a good shot at any tier one. my advice would be to ask for fee waivers and apply to as many possible. pay for 16 that you cant get waivers for and apply to everything else. it seems like the sports experience may compensate for the gpa. Urms with much lower and only slightly better gpas have snuck into the top 20.  apply as many places as physically possible. i ended up getting into my reach with substandard lsat scores and im not a urm. if your personal statement places up the minority card you have some great shots at great schools.  just make sure you are willing to do the work at a good school before applying. if you pull a 2.8 from duke, or something like that, you will be indebt for ahwile. just consider the work it will require. law school is much harder then undergrad.  good luck in whatever you do :)  i think you could break t14 though.
Title: Re: 2.8/ 166 where should i apply...
Post by: jarhead on July 09, 2006, 05:34:16 PM
hey, i think you have a good shot at any tier one. my advice would be to ask for fee waivers and apply to as many possible. pay for 16 that you cant get waivers for and apply to everything else. it seems like the sports experience may compensate for the gpa. Urms with much lower and only slightly better gpas have snuck into the top 20.  apply as many places as physically possible. i ended up getting into my reach with substandard lsat scores and im not a urm. if your personal statement places up the minority card you have some great shots at great schools.  just make sure you are willing to do the work at a good school before applying. if you pull a 2.8 from duke, or something like that, you will be indebt for ahwile. just consider the work it will require. law school is much harder then undergrad.  good luck in whatever you do :)  i think you could break t14 though.

ditto
Title: black splitters
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 12, 2006, 12:25:55 PM
Although I'll end up graduating summa cum laude from Wake Forest, my lsac gpa is closer to 3.3 because I performed HORRENDOUSLY at a previous institution (colgate). Also, based on the practices I've taken, I'm sure I'll destroy the LSATS. How much do upward trends and lsat scores matter to elite law schools like harvard, penn, uva, duke, etc, especially as a black male (based on the spirited discussions you guys have had, this apparently helps profoundly). Should I forget the aformentioned schools? Thanks.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 12, 2006, 12:27:17 PM
If you indeed destroy the LSAT as a Black man, and apply early, you're in at CCN MVP easily.  Might take a bit of an extra pop to get into HYS but it will be well within you reach.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 12, 2006, 12:47:19 PM
If you indeed destroy the LSAT as a Black man, and apply early, you're in at CCN MVP easily.  Might take a bit of an extra pop to get into HYS but it will be well within you reach.

I think he has excellent shot at HYS if he does indeed kill the LSAT (by killing I mean 175+). As long as there is a strong upward trend, you can excuse away early bad grades. A super strong LSAT and upward grade trend won't keep him out of Yale.



He's good with a 168+ I think.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 12, 2006, 12:53:20 PM
thanks
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 12, 2006, 01:11:13 PM
If you indeed destroy the LSAT as a Black man, and apply early, you're in at CCN MVP easily.  Might take a bit of an extra pop to get into HYS but it will be well within you reach.

I think he has excellent shot at HYS if he does indeed kill the LSAT (by killing I mean 175+). As long as there is a strong upward trend, you can excuse away early bad grades. A super strong LSAT and upward grade trend won't keep him out of Yale.



He's good with a 168+ I think.


a 168 and he'll be at H with us, but he'll prob need to break 170 for a better shot at Yale or Stanford.


Yeah, I agree -- 170+ for Yale.  Stanford is a weird case.  They let me in.  But they like Trumans.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 12, 2006, 01:13:28 PM
If you indeed destroy the LSAT as a Black man, and apply early, you're in at CCN MVP easily.  Might take a bit of an extra pop to get into HYS but it will be well within you reach.

I think he has excellent shot at HYS if he does indeed kill the LSAT (by killing I mean 175+). As long as there is a strong upward trend, you can excuse away early bad grades. A super strong LSAT and upward grade trend won't keep him out of Yale.



He's good with a 168+ I think.


a 168 and he'll be at H with us, but he'll prob need to break 170 for a better shot at Yale or Stanford.


Yeah, I agree -- 170+ for Yale.  Stanford is a weird case.  They let me in.  But they like Trumans.

Stanford hurts for Black people, thats why.



Stanford Law just hurts, period.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 12, 2006, 01:16:53 PM
If you indeed destroy the LSAT as a Black man, and apply early, you're in at CCN MVP easily.  Might take a bit of an extra pop to get into HYS but it will be well within you reach.

I think he has excellent shot at HYS if he does indeed kill the LSAT (by killing I mean 175+). As long as there is a strong upward trend, you can excuse away early bad grades. A super strong LSAT and upward grade trend won't keep him out of Yale.



He's good with a 168+ I think.


a 168 and he'll be at H with us, but he'll prob need to break 170 for a better shot at Yale or Stanford.


Yeah, I agree -- 170+ for Yale.  Stanford is a weird case.  They let me in.  But they like Trumans.

Stanford hurts for Black people, thats why.


How come CN?
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 12, 2006, 01:26:32 PM
thanks for the info
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 12, 2006, 01:34:20 PM
'welcome. Don't get me wrong - Stanford is awesome in every way imaginable. But the grad schools hurt for black diversity. The undergrad doesn't have that problem (enough homegrown/west coast talent, plus Black people tend to be drawn to the 'total experience' thing we have going with a strong greek scene, PAC 10/Division I football plus the academics). While I was there, I interacted with a number of Black grad students who all felt that the grad schools were lacking in the support for Black grad students, especially compared to the way the undergrads are treated. There is a crazy support system for Black undergrads. But in general, Stanford is really good to undergrads in a way that our peer schools (esp the ones who also have strong research) are not. We're literally the babies of the administration and money tends to be funneled to us first and then everyone else.

ETA: I spoke in present tense and I graduated 2 years ago. Sniff  :'(



It's okay...*pat pat*
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: faith2005 on July 12, 2006, 01:36:49 PM
i would have happily gone to stanford. too bad i didn't get in. :D but i have a friend that turned down boalt to go to duke and she discouraged me from applying b/c she kept on saying that there were no black people in the bay. i wish i had visited first though, b/c i think the activist scene could have made up for the lack of black people in my particular case. cn--do the schools grad students (stanford, boalt and the other ones nearby) interact with each other? or stay isolated?
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 12, 2006, 01:46:21 PM
I wanted to go to Stanford.  Actually, I didn't apply.  Didn't even know about it.  But it doesn't matter, I got rejected everywhere I applied to anyway (except for the school I attended).   :D
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: faith2005 on July 12, 2006, 01:49:15 PM
i like cali but i think being near dc is alot better for me in all sorts of ways. i still wonder what would have happened if i hadn't scrapped my cal app at the last minute though. i visited last summer and thought it was one of the most beautiful places i've been in the u.s. but rest assured if i was in cali--i'd be trying something new. lol...i think i posted on the board about my adventures in cali. i got hit on by every race and gender.  :D
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 12, 2006, 02:03:09 PM
I wanted to go to Stanford.  Actually, I didn't apply.  Didn't even know about it.  But it doesn't matter, I got rejected everywhere I applied to anyway (except for the school I attended).   :D

So where did you end up going? I'm sure you made out ok.....
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 12, 2006, 02:04:10 PM
And I forgot to add that Cal people tend to have huge inferiority complexes about dealing with Stanford people, so maybe that's why there's a lack of organized stuff.



My frosh year, one dorm had t-shirts printed up for Big Game that said "First you couldn't get into our school, now you can't get into our end zone." I was like, ouch!!






(had to get in the Cal diss...altho it's not totally untrue). Talib, sorry for hijacking your thread  :D

no, its all good. thanks for your input.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 12, 2006, 02:11:11 PM
I wanted to go to Stanford.  Actually, I didn't apply.  Didn't even know about it.  But it doesn't matter, I got rejected everywhere I applied to anyway (except for the school I attended).   :D

So where did you end up going? I'm sure you made out ok.....



I went to City College of New York (CCNY) in Harlem USA.  Loved it.  Made out pretty well -- I can't complain!
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: A. on July 12, 2006, 02:37:04 PM
I wanted to go to Stanford.  Actually, I didn't apply.  Didn't even know about it.  But it doesn't matter, I got rejected everywhere I applied to anyway (except for the school I attended).   :D

I didn't apply to Stanford undergrad either.  In trying to remember why, I draw a blank, though.  Probably didn't want to take the SAT IIs.  I think Yale was the only top 5 school that didn't require them.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 12, 2006, 06:08:23 PM
I didn't app to any national schools for UG. Worked out fine in the end (prolly should have done the same for LS! :D)

Stanford Law does NOT have an activist scene.  One student when I was visiting characterized the student body as "pretty apathetic" - and she was trying to sell me on the school... :-\
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: Smokey on July 12, 2006, 07:08:48 PM
I guess I was kinda a splitter of sorts... I had a 3.6ish GPA, 169 LSAT and these were my results:

Yale - out
Harvard - in
Stanford - out
Columbia - WL, still on it
NYU - WL,out
Chicago - out
Michigan - WL, out
UVa - in
Penn - out
Boalt - withdrew
Cornell - in
Duke - WL, still on it
GULC - in
Northwestern - in

So... try to do better than me I guess if you def. want to be in at HYS.  :)
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: jnc18 on July 12, 2006, 07:09:38 PM
Although I'll end up graduating summa cum laude from Wake Forest, my lsac gpa is closer to 3.3 because I performed HORRENDOUSLY at a previous institution (colgate). Also, based on the practices I've taken, I'm sure I'll destroy the LSATS. How much do upward trends and lsat scores matter to elite law schools like harvard, penn, uva, duke, etc, especially as a black male (based on the spirited discussions you guys have had, this apparently helps profoundly). Should I forget the aformentioned schools? Thanks.

I'll put it simply:

I was a huge splitter.  Decent LSAT, sh*tastic GPA.  Worse than yours and no upward trend.

You put "summa cum laude" on your app, you've got an upwards trend, and your GPA really ain't terrible to begin with.  You'll be straight.

I'm assuming your ECs and application will be fairly impressive.  If you do "destroy" the LSAT (which to me means >175), then you will go wherever you want.  A 170 will put you in everywhere with the possible exception Y and S, but you have a good shot. High 160s and you'll be in at H.  Still have a good shot with mid 160s

You can pretty much take that as fact.

Edit 1:  None of this applies to Berkeley or UCLA, they are GPA whores that don't care about black people.

Edit 2:  Bluesmoke's cycle was pretty much an aberration, wouldn't base much on it.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: John Galt on July 12, 2006, 09:30:29 PM
I wanted to go to Stanford.  Actually, I didn't apply.  Didn't even know about it.  But it doesn't matter, I got rejected everywhere I applied to anyway (except for the school I attended).   :D


Look atcha now!
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: John Galt on July 12, 2006, 09:41:54 PM
1. Upward trend matters only if the rest of your file is in order. An upward trend is great, but there are many people with no such trend - just a constant supply of high grades. You need to make sure everything else in your file is impressive so that they can look at the positive trend.

2. LSAT matter plenty for the top schools. Look, the best way to get into the top schools is to knock the LSAT out. There are about 20-30 blacks that have a 3.5UGPA and 170+ LSAT each year. There's about 70 blacks with a 3.5+UGP and 165+ LSAT each year. I think Harvard has about 60 blacks each year in its class (correct me if I'm wrong) and they must admit at least a few more. So you do the math...basically, get a high LSAT and you're butter, son. BUTTER.

3. Hubris is different from confident. If you're confident you'll do well on the LSAT, then I'm with you. Keep practicing. Many a arrogant test taker (I'm one of them) thought they'd destroy the LSAT only to be disappointed.

4. In at UVA, Duke, Texas, Georgetown with anything greater than a 163. H needs to be at 166 or greater and S and Y are unpredictable. Good luck!

Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: BrerAnansi on July 12, 2006, 09:45:07 PM
nothing substantive to add to the thread except...outstanding use of the word butter JG...that is all...
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: jnc18 on July 12, 2006, 10:00:33 PM
nothing substantive to add to the thread except...outstanding use of the word butter JG...that is all...

I concur.  Have not heard butter used in that context in years.  An all-around good post too.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 13, 2006, 07:37:58 AM

3. Hubris is different from confident. If you're confident you'll do well on the LSAT, then I'm with you. Keep practicing. Many a arrogant test taker (I'm one of them) thought they'd destroy the LSAT only to be disappointed.



I wholeheartedly agree, but I'm the truth. I plan on shutting things down come test day. Thanks for the input, man.
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: Catherine Morland on July 13, 2006, 05:42:44 PM
2. LSAT matter plenty for the top schools. Look, the best way to get into the top schools is to knock the LSAT out. There are about 20-30 blacks that have a 3.5UGPA and 170+ LSAT each year. There's about 70 blacks with a 3.5+UGP and 165+ LSAT each year. I think Harvard has about 60 blacks each year in its class (correct me if I'm wrong) and they must admit at least a few more. So you do the math...basically, get a high LSAT and you're butter, son. BUTTER.

Out of curiosity, what are you basing those statistics on?
Title: Re: black splitters
Post by: John Galt on July 13, 2006, 09:18:00 PM
2. LSAT matter plenty for the top schools. Look, the best way to get into the top schools is to knock the LSAT out. There are about 20-30 blacks that have a 3.5UGPA and 170+ LSAT each year. There's about 70 blacks with a 3.5+UGP and 165+ LSAT each year. I think Harvard has about 60 blacks each year in its class (correct me if I'm wrong) and they must admit at least a few more. So you do the math...basically, get a high LSAT and you're butter, son. BUTTER.

Out of curiosity, what are you basing those statistics on?

Grutter
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on July 16, 2006, 08:26:34 PM
Happy surfing. 

Tell any newbies to go to page 1 first before they start asking you guys any questions that you have probably already answered: http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg86302.html#msg86302
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: John Galt on July 16, 2006, 08:46:53 PM
Nice! Great Job, Sands.

Also, its funny man because I was reading over everyone's advice and only you and I thought Annabel was good for Harvard. Man, people need to listen to us. ;D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 16, 2006, 08:53:07 PM
Hmm....

aight maybe I should throw in my chances question

ivy
3.35 overall gpa (pre med start, mainly low bc of frosh year, will add an addendum), 3.7 gpa in major...big upward trend
group involvement, leadership positions, co founder of group, worked about 15 hours per week for 3 years, etc...
lots of intership experience (since i was about 16, had an internship every year except 1)

I'm aiming for a 168+ (preferably a 170) for GULC, Penn, CLS and maybe HLS ....that should be good right?

thanks for the help!!!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 16, 2006, 09:16:37 PM
aim for a 180 :) can never set your sites too high... Either way, the ivy thing will help you when it comes down to applying. If you look on lsn, the lowest non-urm scores are always ivy. Im sure the lower urm scores are also ivy grads, so you may even get through with a slightly lower lsat then that. Good luck to you though.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 16, 2006, 11:16:13 PM
Hmm....

aight maybe I should throw in my chances question

ivy
3.35 overall gpa (pre med start, mainly low bc of frosh year, will add an addendum), 3.7 gpa in major...big upward trend
group involvement, leadership positions, co founder of group, worked about 15 hours per week for 3 years, etc...
lots of intership experience (since i was about 16, had an internship every year except 1)

I'm aiming for a 168+ (preferably a 170) for GULC, Penn, CLS and maybe HLS ....that should be good right?

thanks for the help!!!

Just my opinion, but here is the score I think would make your admission "likely" for each school.

GULC - 161
Penn - 165
NYU - 166
CLS - 167
HLS - 167
YLS/SLS - probably 170+, who knows
Title: Re: 3.96/162/URM (obviously). People tell me that...
Post by: jnc18 on July 16, 2006, 11:30:49 PM
...I have a pretty good chance at T14. Is that true? What do you guys think? I've got good LORs, a great PS, and lots of volunteer work. Do I have any chance at Boalt, Michigan, Virginia, Chicago, NYU, Columbia, Harvard, Stanford (I would prefer these)? What about Georgetown, Cornell, Penn (but I couldn't really complain about these)? Are there any that I have a better shot at than others? Any help would be extremely appreciated. Thanks.

Assuming an great application, here's what I'd say:

Boalt - very good chance (GPA focused)
Michigan - Automatic admit
Virginia - should be in
Chicago -  should be in
NYU - should be in
Columbia - should be in
Harvard - should be in
Georgetown - Automatic admit
Cornell - close to auto
Penn - should be in
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 17, 2006, 01:27:03 AM
Hmm....

aight maybe I should throw in my chances question

ivy
3.35 overall gpa (pre med start, mainly low bc of frosh year, will add an addendum), 3.7 gpa in major...big upward trend
group involvement, leadership positions, co founder of group, worked about 15 hours per week for 3 years, etc...
lots of intership experience (since i was about 16, had an internship every year except 1)

I'm aiming for a 168+ (preferably a 170) for GULC, Penn, CLS and maybe HLS ....that should be good right?

thanks for the help!!!

Just my opinion, but here is the score I think would make your admission "likely" for each school.

GULC - 161
Penn - 165
NYU - 166
CLS - 167
HLS - 167
YLS/SLS - probably 170+, who knows


most likely not applying to the bolded.

thanks for the help Jay :)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 17, 2006, 05:09:19 AM
Hm, interesting.  I still think a child board would be better from an organizational standpoint, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.  Good work, Sands.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 17, 2006, 07:54:10 AM
Hmm....

aight maybe I should throw in my chances question

ivy
3.35 overall gpa (pre med start, mainly low bc of frosh year, will add an addendum), 3.7 gpa in major...big upward trend
group involvement, leadership positions, co founder of group, worked about 15 hours per week for 3 years, etc...
lots of intership experience (since i was about 16, had an internship every year except 1)

I'm aiming for a 168+ (preferably a 170) for GULC, Penn, CLS and maybe HLS ....that should be good right?

thanks for the help!!!

Just my opinion, but here is the score I think would make your admission "likely" for each school.

GULC - 161
Penn - 165
NYU - 166
CLS - 167
HLS - 167
YLS/SLS - probably 170+, who knows



I don't know.  GULC and Penn are kind of weird.  I think GULC will need a score closer to 164.  Penn at 165/166 is about right.  The rest is about right.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 17, 2006, 12:05:49 PM
With a few exceptions, it almost seems like a black kid with a 168+ is a lock for Harvard law.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 17, 2006, 12:17:18 PM
168?  Of course.  I'd even say 165.  Harvard has to accept 70+ black people per year.  As far as I know, 70 blacks don't score a 168+ in any given year.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Lsassy on July 17, 2006, 12:36:26 PM
I  agree with Lacoste, GULC gets the most apps of any schools, hence it is more difficult to get into, definitely more difficult than Cornell.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on July 17, 2006, 12:44:16 PM
168?  Of course.  I'd even say 165.  Harvard has to accept 70+ black people per year.  As far as I know, 70 blacks don't score a 168+ in any given year.

I scored a 169 once on one of my practice LSATs.  I think the moons of the entire solar system were in alignment with the Sun that day.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 17, 2006, 05:02:46 PM
GULC gets the most apps of any schools, hence it is more difficult to get into

It's not about volume of applications.  Selectivity is based on the quality of the applicant pool and the rate of acceptance.  A 156 applicant is much more likely to apply to Georgetown than Columbia.  Also, their acceptance rate is on the higher end of the T-14. 

In fact, combine the high volume of applications with the higher acceptance rate and it follows logically that it will accept some students of slightly lower credentials in addition to the all of the very top level students it accepts.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: FossilJ on July 17, 2006, 11:00:21 PM
 :D :D :D

I was so confused when this thread popped up in my unreads, but now I get what's going on.

Keep on keepin' on, folks.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 18, 2006, 02:35:47 PM
I just jumped in to say hello. I'm obviously applying to schools but may not have a realistic shot. My LSAT is good (172) but my GPA (majored in Hospitality @ CalPoly) is very bad (2.41). Since I really can't do anything about my GPA what can I do? I feel very stuck!

Well, the first thing is that you're gonna need to seriously explain how you achieved a 2.4 in Hospitality at CalPoly.  Your statement on this is going to be a huge part of your application.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 18, 2006, 02:38:09 PM
thas harsh jay but i was thinking the same thing. and then turned around and got a 172...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 18, 2006, 02:49:25 PM
pray to sneak in off a waitlist... look at lsn. some schools love lsat scores... maybe bu?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 18, 2006, 03:56:33 PM
Calitransplant-

Honestly not sure you are being genuine, but if so and you really are trying to stay on the west coast, I receommend:

Arizona State
Arizona
University of San Diego
Pepperdine
Southwestern
Loyola
UNLV
University of San Francisco
Santa Clara University

With that LSAT you will be good to go for a decent number of those respectable schools.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 18, 2006, 03:58:45 PM
If he has a persuasive and genuine reason why that GPA is not indicative of his ability to perform in law school (and a solid reason why the LSAT is a more reliable index) then he might be able to slip one or two T14s as reaches.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 18, 2006, 04:02:16 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 18, 2006, 04:04:44 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.



Perhaps what you say is true, Mr. Bond...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 18, 2006, 04:07:06 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.



Perhaps what you say is true, Mr. Bond...

we'll see. I think its flame though.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 18, 2006, 04:09:05 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.

Damn.  I should have chosen that name.  You a Bond fan?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 18, 2006, 04:10:27 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.

Damn.  I should have chosen that name.  You a Bond fan?

Yeah man, I am.

 I don't know how this new bond is going to work out, but i'll give him a chance.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: intent06 on July 18, 2006, 04:13:20 PM
2.4 in Hospitality??? I'm sorry I am still shaking my head on that one.  The LSAT will definitely bring him through at some top schools.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 18, 2006, 04:47:17 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.

This doesn't sound like knowledgeable advice.  An application to UCLA is a wasted $80.  Pretty much a 1% chance.  USC, I'll boost his chances up to about 5%.

If you he can leave the west, he has a shot at some T25s like Minnesota and GW and might as well throw an app at a couple T14s (Michigan, maybe Georgetown, Northwestern if he's got WE)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 18, 2006, 04:51:56 PM
Calitransplant-

Honestly not sure you are being genuine, but if so and you really are trying to stay on the west coast, I receommend:

Arizona State
Arizona
University of San Diego
Pepperdine
Southwestern
Loyola
UNLV
University of San Francisco
Santa Clara University

With that LSAT you will be good to go for a decent number of those respectable schools.

Who would fake a sub 3.00 GPA? I studied my ass off to get that score! I took time off (and not enough of it) after my mother passed and my head wasn't in the books right. My GPA suffered and I make no excuses for it.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: BrerAnansi on July 18, 2006, 04:53:16 PM
You posted in this thread before...then deleted out...even if you're not flame...you're decidedly odd...though who am I to judge???

I just jumped in to say hello. I'm obviously applying to schools but may not have a realistic shot. My LSAT is good (172) but my GPA (majored in Hospitality @ CalPoly) is very bad (2.41). Since I really can't do anything about my GPA what can I do? I feel very stuck!

I goofed and posted outside this thread. It's not imperative that I stay in SoCal. But with my GPA things look grim to me. La Verne is close to home and I'm not crazy enough to waste money on applying to Stanford or UCLA. I'd be very interested in schools in the Chicago area or even an HBCU.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 18, 2006, 04:53:51 PM
I just jumped in to say hello. I'm obviously applying to schools but may not have a realistic shot. My LSAT is good (172) but my GPA (majored in Hospitality @ CalPoly) is very bad (2.41). Since I really can't do anything about my GPA what can I do? I feel very stuck!

I goofed and posted outside this thread. It's not imperative that I stay in SoCal. But with my GPA things look grim to me. La Verne is close to home and I'm not crazy enough to waste money on applying to Stanford or UCLA. I'd be very interested in schools in the Chicago area or even an HBCU.

The fact that you keep bringing up a provisionally accredited law school while everyone is telling you to apply to T1-T2 schools further gives the impression that you are a flame.  Enough about La Verne.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 18, 2006, 04:56:54 PM


No, I was told to repost here istead and during that time I was posting I think my original got moved here. Sorry!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 18, 2006, 05:01:10 PM
Who would fake a sub 3.00 GPA?

An anti-AA troll.

Quote
I studied my ass off to get that score! I took time off (and not enough of it) after my mother passed and my head wasn't in the books right. My GPA suffered and I make no excuses for it.

There's no hate here.  I actually assumed that you would have some compelling explanation for your GPA.  The key will be to adequately explain how those factors negatively affected your academic performance and that your GPA is not a reflection of your intellectual ability or sense of responsibility.

I think we've given you honest suggestions on where to apply.  If you really have an interest in hospitality, UNLV might be of particular appeal.

One good thing is that whichever school you likely attend, you can casually bring up your LSAT score, and have people gasping.  Of course, you'll fail to mention your GPA...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: BrerAnansi on July 18, 2006, 05:02:07 PM
Alright man....

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26160.msg795866.html#msg795866

That's from the first page in this thread....Sands indexed a bunch of GPA/LSAT combinations of "what are my chances" posters and the board's response...this one with a 2.5 seems to be in your range...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 18, 2006, 05:10:09 PM
GPA? I'll tell them that my school didn't have one!

I'm way too big to be a troll, lol!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 18, 2006, 05:12:00 PM
Thank you all for the advice. I'm going to compile a list of places where I want to attend and post it and then you all can dissect it from that point. Cool?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: huilian on July 18, 2006, 05:14:00 PM
Hello all,

I'm applying to law school this fall at 3.15/170 (one very bad semester) and I hope you guys can give some advice on where I should be looking at.  I'm only concerned with the ranking/rep of a school as far as it will help me graduate with a job lined up, and since cost is a serious factor I would rather focus my applications on schools that tend to be generous with aid.  Is it safe to assume that slightly lower ranking schools would be more likely to offer aid to someone like me than the T14?  This early in the application process should I even be thinking about costs?  Any advice is appreciated!

(Just to distract everyone from the 2.4 debate...my 3.1 was in Int'l Affairs)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Inquirer on July 18, 2006, 05:34:42 PM
Hey Cali,

Glad to see you made it to the right thread  ;)

If you're willing, maybe you should try to apply for some part time programs.

Jay (and others) --

Perhaps Cali doesn't know what schools are considered "good." We should be directing him/her to US News law school rankings instead of assuming that everyone knows about those things from the start :)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 18, 2006, 05:57:07 PM
I'm applying to law school this fall at 3.15/170 (one very bad semester) and I hope you guys can give some advice on where I should be looking at.

Every school in the T14 that you'd be interested in attending.  You have a very good chance at Harvard on down (except Berkeley, just an outside shot).

[/quote]Is it safe to assume that slightly lower ranking schools would be more likely to offer aid to someone like me than the T14?[/quote]

Yes, this is a logical assumption.  For that reason, you should apply to a couple of the schools ranked 15-30, the ones that a most appealing to you.

Quote
This early in the application process should I even be thinking about costs?

Shouldn't be a predominant factor.  If you apply to a sizeable number of schools, you will definitely receive some generous awards.  You can worry about the details later.

Get your applications down as early in the process as possible.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 18, 2006, 06:31:33 PM
I went to the website and have looked at these schools. I know what T1, T2 & T3 are now. Is T14 "Top 14" or is it something different? With the exception of Yale, Harvard, Stanford and Cal (and of course the nationally known schools) I don't in fact know what's considered good. I'd like to check out UNLV but since they are new I didn't know. I also see that only four schools in the rankings have a lower acceptance rate than UNLV (12%). Those would be the four I just noted.

Ok now my choices (in no order):

My Wants:
Univ of Illinois-Champaign
Arizona State
UNLV (How/Why is it a T3 school?)
Univ of San Diego
DePaul

Really good chance (based on the US News rankings):
Northern Illinois Univ
Howard

Longshots-
Southern Cal
Univ of Chicago (real longshot)
UCLA
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 18, 2006, 06:34:41 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.

This doesn't sound like knowledgeable advice.  An application to UCLA is a wasted $80.  Pretty much a 1% chance.  USC, I'll boost his chances up to about 5%.

If you he can leave the west, he has a shot at some T25s like Minnesota and GW and might as well throw an app at a couple T14s (Michigan, maybe Georgetown, Northwestern if he's got WE)


why? cause its in Cali?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 18, 2006, 06:36:35 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.

This doesn't sound like knowledgeable advice.  An application to UCLA is a wasted $80.  Pretty much a 1% chance.  USC, I'll boost his chances up to about 5%.

If you he can leave the west, he has a shot at some T25s like Minnesota and GW and might as well throw an app at a couple T14s (Michigan, maybe Georgetown, Northwestern if he's got WE)


why? cause its in Cali?

Heavy GPA focus + no Affirmative Action = Dingsville
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 18, 2006, 06:39:07 PM
If I had a 3.41 instead of the 2.41 this wouldn't be an issue. Then I would be advised to apply to ALL the top schools and let them fight over me. AS it stands... oh well.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Inquirer on July 18, 2006, 06:49:46 PM
UNLV (How/Why is it a T3 school?)

Because it's a very new school, and yes, "T14" is "Top 14".  BTW -- Any school from 1 -50 is considered Tier 1 (with schools from 1-14/20/25 - depending on who you ask - generally viewed as the "cream of the crop")

If I had a 3.41 instead of the 2.41 this wouldn't be an issue. Then I would be advised to apply to ALL the top schools and let them fight over me. AS it stands... oh well.

Alas, it is what it is.  You can apply to where-ever you want and see how it goes or you can limit yourself based on the opinions of others.  With a 172 you should have quite a few fee waivers, so use those and if you feel so inclined to apply to   Besides, you're from (or in) California, so you must be amazing  ;D !!!     ...says the chick from California

Good luck with your applications :)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 18, 2006, 07:04:20 PM
Thanks. I did go to CalPoly (born and raised in L.A.) and left after graduation to help operate a B&B in Dallas but have since returned home to CA. Some people may view a hospitality degree as easy but at Poly it's pretty much a business degree catered to the hotel industry. Yeah, I took the same business classes as the finance and marketing majors. And so sorry I didn't major in PoliSci or Engineering and didn't go to UCLA or SC. Maybe if I didn't have to deal with some stuff some wouldn't be shaking their heads at my GPA. But nevertheless I'll say it once more... I am not making any excuses for anything. I'm not a flamer or against AA. I am a URM and you know what, if that gets me into a school of my choice.. GREAT FOR ME!

Thanks for all of your comments (doubters too). I will take it from here.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 18, 2006, 08:18:57 PM
172/URM is pretty persuasive. I'd throw in some apps to some top 25 schools. If want to stay on WC, definitely apply to UCLA and USC.

Damn.  I should have chosen that name.  You a Bond fan?

Yeah man, I am.

 I don't know how this new bond is going to work out, but i'll give him a chance.

Yeah, me too.  Despite initial impressions, he might turn out to be good.  Now that I know that you're a Bond fan, we'll have to get something together for the new release on Nov. 17.  Unfortunately, I will be in a wedding the next day, so it might have to be delayed for a little bit.  But I am the consumate Bond fan...I have all of the movies (and the unofficial Never Say Never Again).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 18, 2006, 10:09:06 PM
I just wanted to add that I consider the cream of the crop the top 19 schools :) anyone can go top twenty, but top ninteen is where its at  :P jk

The bond movie will be great, cause there are no bad bond movies.  Also, with a 170 and 3 something gpa you should get really good money at G-Town. It seems like a lot of the T-14s will throw money at urms to steal them away from HYS.  My advice is to consider something like GW though. You are bound to get a full ride as most white applicants with your numbers do and you are even a more desirable admit. Also, as a white applicant, effort is rewarded with big law jobs out of GW. As a URM, the same effort will/should give you pretty much any opportunity you want.  My advice is to apply to all top 25 schools in the areas you would actually live. Take the highest ranked one for the best price.  Either way you are a shoe in at whatever job you want with the type of work ethic and intellect you have.   
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 19, 2006, 12:26:03 AM
I just wanted to add that I consider the cream of the crop the top 19 schools :) anyone can go top twenty, but top ninteen is where its at  :P jk

The bond movie will be great, cause there are no bad bond movies.  Also, with a 170 and 3 something gpa you should get really good money at G-Town. It seems like a lot of the T-14s will throw money at urms to steal them away from HYS.  My advice is to consider something like GW though. You are bound to get a full ride as most white applicants with your numbers do and you are even a more desirable admit. Also, as a white applicant, effort is rewarded with big law jobs out of GW. As a URM, the same effort will/should give you pretty much any opportunity you want.  My advice is to apply to all top 25 schools in the areas you would actually live. Take the highest ranked one for the best price.  Either way you are a shoe in at whatever job you want with the type of work ethic and intellect you have.   



A)  A 170+ is good generally for Gtown but a 2.4 is not.  Gtown is a reputed numbers whore and even that LSAT might not overcome the GPA deficit without work experience.

B)  Money is only thrown from schools like Columbia, NYU, and Northwestern if you get in.  HYS only gives need-based aid.  Very little variation.  Chicago is straight-forward with its aid.  Michigan will give good aid, U.Va will not (simply to pull a minority, that is).  Penn will not.  Gtown won't, Northwestern will.  Just my thoughts.

C)  He will not get a full-ride.  Few schools do that, no matter how low their rank and how your LSAT.  Schools that give "full-rides" have well known programs for that (i.e. Columbia's "Stone," "Hamilton" fellows, NYU's "Root-Tilden-Kern").

D)  My advice:  Go to the best you school yet get into, aid be damned.  Suck it up and work for a top law firm (easily done if you go to the best school you get into), do the work, pay off loans, do you.  Debt difference will be negligible coming out of top schools in the long run.



DISCLAIMER:  Lacoste was under the influence (of something) when writing this.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 19, 2006, 05:38:19 AM
haha, nah, i was writing to the girl with the 3 something gpa and 170. She has a good shot at 100K plus from G-Town.  The guy with the 2.4 will be lucky to get into a good school.  Tier 2s give out full rides all the time. She has much higher scores then I did and URM status, so has a great shot at good money from a top 20 school.  Also, for her, going to the best school may not be necessary. All she has to do is go to a good school.  The URM status will give her first pick over jobs out of her school. If it is a decent enough place where big law actually recruits, then she is set with that. 
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 19, 2006, 07:16:12 AM
I'll let you know where I get accepted and if I receive any "package" deals on tuition. IF I get into Chicago even I'll be suprised. I'm damn sure going to go but won't I be shocked!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 19, 2006, 07:29:38 AM
The URM status will give her first pick over jobs out of her school. If it is a decent enough place where big law actually recruits, then she is set with that. 

Hm, I don't agree with that.  She will still be competing with other URMs, and going to a lesser ranked school does not guarantee that she (whomever we're talking about) will get better grades than they.  If we assume average grades, she will likely get a better job at a higher ranked school.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 19, 2006, 07:44:16 AM
The URM status will give her first pick over jobs out of her school. If it is a decent enough place where big law actually recruits, then she is set with that. 

Hm, I don't agree with that.  She will still be competing with other URMs, and going to a lesser ranked school does not guarantee that she (whomever we're talking about) will get better grades than they.  If we assume average grades, she will likely get a better job at a higher ranked school.


Ceteris paribus, always take the higher ranked school.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 19, 2006, 08:03:35 AM
The URM status will give her first pick over jobs out of her school. If it is a decent enough place where big law actually recruits, then she is set with that. 

Hm, I don't agree with that.  She will still be competing with other URMs, and going to a lesser ranked school does not guarantee that she (whomever we're talking about) will get better grades than they.  If we assume average grades, she will likely get a better job at a higher ranked school.


Ceteris paribus, always take the higher ranked school.

Agreed
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2006, 08:05:18 AM
James Bond huh?


You're kinda cute   ;) ;)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 19, 2006, 08:11:47 AM
James Bond huh?


You're kinda cute   ;) ;)

Lol, I don't think you want that name.  Bond's only wife was tragically killed.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: pikey on July 19, 2006, 08:14:06 AM
What's up with everyone changing their names today?  ???
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2006, 08:15:51 AM
James Bond huh?


You're kinda cute   ;) ;)

Lol, I don't think you want that name.  Bond's only wife was tragically killed.


The smart, sexy and accomplished woman must always die in the movie.

 ::)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 19, 2006, 08:17:53 AM
James Bond huh?


You're kinda cute   ;) ;)

Lol, I don't think you want that name.  Bond's only wife was tragically killed.


The smart, sexy and accomplished woman must always die in the movie.

 ::)



Otherwise the hero would inevitably fail.  Sexy, accomplished, and powerful women only serve to distract powerful men from their goals and ambitions (see the new Superman flick).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2006, 08:20:05 AM

Otherwise the hero would inevitably fail.  Sexy, accomplished, and powerful women only serve to distract powerful men from their goals and ambitions (see the new Superman flick).


Erroneous!!!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: justGem on July 19, 2006, 08:27:14 AM
I'll let you know where I get accepted and if I receive any "package" deals on tuition. IF I get into Chicago even I'll be suprised. I'm damn sure going to go but won't I be shocked!

Calitransplant:  My GPA was lower than yours  :-X , I applied to about 11 schools and was only rejected by 1 and recieved a near full-ride from another.  Apply to wherever you are interested in attending and let the chips fall where they may.  BTW, UNLV is a great school.  My cousin (a Los Vegas native) graduated from there and loved it. She is working for her congressman in DC now. 
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 19, 2006, 08:34:41 AM
but didn't you do grad school? and weren't you a science major? and don't you count as non-traditional b/c of your family and stuff? I am not tryna rain on his/her parade but there were some extenuating circumstances. Hopefully cali has some things going on the same way you did that would make them look past the gpa.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: huilian on July 19, 2006, 10:00:36 AM
Thanks everyone!  Out of curiousity, how many applications did you all send out?  I feel like if I'm gonna apply somewhere like Harvard (sounds crazy to me, but my mom would love it) I should balance it out with an application to George Mason or something.  Is it unreasonable to try and limit my number of apps?  What about places that offer fee waivers, should I apply just to see what happens?  How do you get fee waivers anyway, do I need to contact admissions offices?

Cali, we're sorta in the same situation, so I can't wait to see where you apply and how you do, best of luck to you.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 19, 2006, 10:01:59 AM
Thanks everyone!  Out of curiousity, how many applications did you all send out?  I feel like if I'm gonna apply somewhere like Harvard (sounds crazy to me, but my mom would love it) I should balance it out with an application to George Mason or something.  Is it unreasonable to try and limit my number of apps?  What about places that offer fee waivers, should I apply just to see what happens?  How do you get fee waivers anyway, do I need to contact admissions offices?

Cali, we're sorta in the same situation, so I can't wait to see where you apply and how you do, best of luck to you.


I sent out 10.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 19, 2006, 10:07:13 AM
I applied to 14.  Apply to as many as you can afford, jsia.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jfields32 on July 19, 2006, 10:12:20 AM
i plan on applying to around 20, which is about all i can afford.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 19, 2006, 10:21:50 AM
Thanks everyone!  Out of curiousity, how many applications did you all send out?  I feel like if I'm gonna apply somewhere like Harvard (sounds crazy to me, but my mom would love it) I should balance it out with an application to George Mason or something.  Is it unreasonable to try and limit my number of apps?  What about places that offer fee waivers, should I apply just to see what happens?  How do you get fee waivers anyway, do I need to contact admissions offices?

Cali, we're sorta in the same situation, so I can't wait to see where you apply and how you do, best of luck to you.

My situation was very close to yours (numbers-wise).  Obviously you should make your own decision, but if you can afford to apply to 12 schools, here is my recommendation

Reaches:
Yale (you should always give a shot at these two)
Stanford
Berkeley (GPA heavy, but worth a shot.  Especially with your Asian studies interest)
UCLA

Good chance:
Harvard (Another you always have to give a shot to)
NYU
Columbia
Chicago

Very good chance:
Michigan
Georgetown
UVa
Northwestern (WE and grad study should have you set)

Also, send an app to any school you might be interested in that gives you a fee waiver.  And I guess sned a couple to the top 30 schools that appeal to you.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 19, 2006, 10:23:19 AM
Safties:  GWU, Vandy, Emory, Fordham, UT, etc...  (if interested in any).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 19, 2006, 10:34:20 AM
Calitransplant:  My GPA was lower than yours  :-X , I applied to about 11 schools and was only rejected by 1 and recieved a near full-ride from another.  Apply to wherever you are interested in attending and let the chips fall where they may. [/quote]

I know that now from looking at the rankings and figuring out where I want to go. Thank you for the pep talk (or is it pep text). I got a bit tired of people implying that I had no chance at a good school. Ya know sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. And I really don't care how, but if I do get into a "good" school with a 2.41 GPA F'N great for me! The way some people talk you'd think everyone in law school has at least a 3.40 GPA and 165+ on their LSAT. Yeah, I would be lucky to get into a top school. But come the first day of class, GPA's and LSAT scores won't matter at all. It won't matter how the person in the first row got in or the one sitting right next to me did. We're all going to be in the same damn class!

I'll let you know my application status andwho said yes, no and Hell No!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: crazy8 on July 19, 2006, 10:39:25 AM

Calitransplant:  My GPA was lower than yours  :-X , I applied to about 11 schools and was only rejected by 1 and recieved a near full-ride from another.  Apply to wherever you are interested in attending and let the chips fall where they may. 

I know that now from looking at the rankings and figuring out where I want to go. Thank you for the pep talk (or is it pep text). I got a bit tired of people implying that I had no chance at a good school. Ya know sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. And I really don't care how, but if I do get into a "good" school with a 2.41 GPA F'N great for me! The way some people talk you'd think everyone in law school has at least a 3.40 GPA and 165+ on their LSAT. Yeah, I would be lucky to get into a top school. But come the first day of class, GPA's and LSAT scores won't matter at all. It won't matter how the person in the first row got in or the one sitting right next to me did. WE're all in the same damn class!

I'll let you know my application status andwho said yes, no and Hell No!
[/quote]

If you stick around long enough (and I hope you do) you will find that there are a plethora of students with different backgrounds (when it comes to GPAs and lsat scores) who will all try to weigh in on your chances.  Like I told someone else, don't limit your options (unless you have to for financial reasons).  What's the worse that can happen...an adcom will tell you HELL NO! :D Trust me, you'll live and no matter where you end up, your success is not determined by the school you attend (though I'm sure you already know that).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 19, 2006, 10:42:05 AM
Apply early and apply wide.  The entire process is unpredictable.

<-- Rejected at G'town, in at Harvard/Stanford.  LSAT way below yours.  Go figure.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: huilian on July 19, 2006, 10:57:48 AM
Ironically, I really, really want to go to Berkeley, which is probably the number one place my gpa precludes me from getting into.  Other than that, I have no real preference so I'll take the board's advice and apply to every school where I can stand the thought of living.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 19, 2006, 11:02:14 AM
Ironically, I really, really want to go to Berkeley, which is probably the number one place my gpa precludes me from getting into.  Other than that, I have no real preference so I'll take the board's advice and apply to every school where I can stand the thought of living.

Well what are the reasons for Berkeley?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: huilian on July 19, 2006, 12:44:41 PM
I guess it's a matter of: location (I'd like to try Cali, but LA sounds like an awful place to live and the Bay area looks liberal and fun), academics (Berkeley's China center is s'posed to be amazing and the law school's not bad either...), and reputation (Berkeley faculty and graduates have a rep for being innovative, and based on the ones I've studied with it seems well-deserved). 

I don't know, I think I just have a weird preference for public universities!  The Ivys sound so...Ivy.

Yes, I know how ridiculous that sounds. ;)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 19, 2006, 03:22:08 PM
Thanks everyone!  Out of curiousity, how many applications did you all send out?  I feel like if I'm gonna apply somewhere like Harvard (sounds crazy to me, but my mom would love it) I should balance it out with an application to George Mason or something.  Is it unreasonable to try and limit my number of apps?  What about places that offer fee waivers, should I apply just to see what happens?  How do you get fee waivers anyway, do I need to contact admissions offices?

Cali, we're sorta in the same situation, so I can't wait to see where you apply and how you do, best of luck to you.

I applied to 20 places. Two schools that were free and the rest I had to come up with the money for.  It never hurts to apply to places. I got into a place I thought I had no shot at and I got rejected from a school or two I really thought I would get into. Not even a waitlist. Anyway, ten acceptances, three waitlists, and seven rejections.  For a seat in GWs class, Im sure glad I spent that money.


And a comment from early, I feel like recruitment efforts from top 20 schools may be the same for URMs. Obvioulsy everyone at this level is reasonably intelligent. There are so few applicants and only slight differences in the level of difficulty that I feel as though employers would reach the same depth into a class for a URM going top 20 as they would top 14. At some point, the cost you would save may justify the difference in placement. I considered dropping 7 spots in rank to come out with instate tuition, unfortunately, they havent called me off the waitlist yet.  Anyway, some things are more important then ranking if you think the opportunities may be the same.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 19, 2006, 03:45:10 PM
I guess it's a matter of: location (I'd like to try Cali, but LA sounds like an awful place to live and the Bay area looks liberal and fun), academics (Berkeley's China center is s'posed to be amazing and the law school's not bad either...), and reputation (Berkeley faculty and graduates have a rep for being innovative, and based on the ones I've studied with it seems well-deserved). 

I don't know, I think I just have a weird preference for public universities!  The Ivys sound so...Ivy.

Well, only 5 of the top 14 are Ivies, so you can avoid them if you like.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 19, 2006, 03:47:07 PM
The way I see it, unless you got into your very very top choice, if you didn't get a couple of rejections, you haven't aimed high enough.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 19, 2006, 04:08:37 PM
Was it stupid of me to have passed up an ivy undergrad for a non-ivy that is less known though ranked slightly higher?

Well, what was the Ivy?

Actually, it doesn't matter, the answer to that question is "no".

In fact if you had said you passed it up for a good state school or HBCU, the answer would still be no.  Although if you named some low-ranked, expensive, non-descript private school, I might have to say otherwise.

P.S. Let me guess, WUSTL over Cornell?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 19, 2006, 04:26:47 PM
I feel like recruitment efforts from top 20 schools may be the same for URMs. Obvioulsy everyone at this level is reasonably intelligent. There are so few applicants and only slight differences in the level of difficulty that I feel as though employers would reach the same depth into a class for a URM going top 20 as they would top 14.

Knowing people from schools all over the t25, I can assure you this is not the case.  It's not even the case within the t14.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 19, 2006, 04:34:11 PM
what do you mean alci? maybe you should spell it out for him/her. you're saying that ranking matters? even for urms? or soemthing else?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 19, 2006, 04:39:30 PM
you're saying that ranking matters? even for urms?

Yes, and I've already said that.  But this poster, who I'm not even sure is in law school, persists in holding on to his view, and I don't have the time to give explanations that will fall on deaf ears.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 19, 2006, 07:02:17 PM
hey, no, im in law school. GW. Anyway, I didnt think it mattered as much for urms. I know ranking matters in the broad sense. But I thought anything top 20 had similiar job opportunities for those that worked hard. I mean, I know that HYS places more graudates into better paying/more selective jobs then the rest. However, the difference between GW and G-Town in recruitment for big law varies minimally.  I mean, from what stats ive been given, employers will dip down 10% further into G-towns class then GWs when recruiting. This is such a minimal number that it does not matter all that much. I wouldnt pass up 100K at GW to go to Georgetown, and I wouldnt suggest it to any one else either. Anyway, I thought that four or five spots in the rankings would matter significantly less for URMs since they have less competetion among the top schools for jobs. I really dont know the hiring situation as I am only a 1L and havent even begun the search, I was just stating the advice I was given. As a non urm, I was told the difference in ranking only matters minimal if you put the same effort in at both schools. This was my sugggestion.  Anyway, if you wouldnt mind clarifying the situation for me Alci it would be appreciated.  I was stating that rankings didnt matter in the top 20/25 as much for a URM. I know this  doesnt pertain to the top schools, but everything is geographical anyway. IDK.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 19, 2006, 07:23:42 PM
However, the difference between GW and G-Town in recruitment for big law varies minimally.  I mean, from what stats ive been given, employers will dip down 10% further into G-towns class then GWs when recruiting. This is such a minimal number that it does not matter all that much. I wouldnt pass up 100K at GW to go to Georgetown, and I wouldnt suggest it to any one else either.

OK, now I agree with you ;).  It really depends on the range you're talking about.  For instance, placement at YHS, even for URMs, is better than at CCN, which is better than MVP, etc.  In my observations, the differences between adjacent clusters is not that great in terms of job placement.  Yes, CCN places better than MVP, but maybe not enough to justify, on that factor alone, paying, for instance, full price at NYU instead of a scholarship at UVA.  GW is a cluster beneath GULC, so I agree with the above quoted section.  Previously, you were being much more generalized.  The job prospects of the average URM at Harvard are very different from the average URM at GULC (or even Penn).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: cui bono? on July 19, 2006, 07:46:01 PM
The way I see it, unless you got into your very very top choice, if you didn't get a couple of rejections, you haven't aimed high enough.

man I LOVE your attitude.  That being said, I must've aimed VERY HIGH!  ;) :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 22, 2006, 11:30:46 AM
calitransplant, if you're still around, please use an addendum in your application to address your gpa.  I know you said you don't want to make excuses, but your mother dying and having to take time off, etc., surely hurt your grades and you don't want to not get into the law school of your choice when there's a reason that your grades were bad.  Don't make it whiney, but please do explain the situation.  It will help a lot, I think.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 22, 2006, 11:54:25 AM
good point. I know I used an addendum in my application also. If you simply state facts and avoid emotions it can be affected.

Try:  The first two years I had a 4.0 gpa. My mother passed away my third year. I had a 1.0. The fourth year my GPA was at 4 again.  Or just something simple like that. If you avoid going to deep into details, they will look at this and say, oh, obviously the family situation factored in. 
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 22, 2006, 12:06:12 PM
calitransplant, if you're still around, please use an addendum in your application to address your gpa.  I know you said you don't want to make excuses, but your mother dying and having to take time off, etc., surely hurt your grades and you don't want to not get into the law school of your choice when there's a reason that your grades were bad.  Don't make it whiney, but please do explain the situation.  It will help a lot, I think.

Seconded.

And honestly, not writing an addendum makes it look like either you are too lazy/complacent to write one or that you might actually find it acceptable.  Believe me, you need to address the issue.  Especially since a lot of the top schools specifically ask for one.

It's possible to write an explanation without sounding whiny.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 22, 2006, 12:53:53 PM
Didn't you say I had no shot at a top school? I may be mistaken. This addendum, do I write it on my LSDAS profile as part of the general application or send each school an individual letter?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 22, 2006, 01:01:09 PM
Didn't you say I had no shot at a top school? I may be mistaken. This addendum, do I write it on my LSDAS profile as part of the general application or send each school an individual letter?

If you're applying thru LSDAS, it's really easy.  Just attach it as a separate doc to each of your applications.  If you need examples, let me know.  I had a gpa addendum myself.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 22, 2006, 01:23:55 PM
Didn't you say I had no shot at a top school? I may be mistaken. This addendum, do I write it on my LSDAS profile as part of the general application or send each school an individual letter?

Umm... go look through and show me were I said anything remotely close to that.  I wouldn't say something like that in any case.  In fact, I advised you to apply to several T25s and even T14s.  In other words, yes, you are mistaken.

The addendum you just write as a Word document and attach along with your other essays and materials.  When you apply through LSDAS, you will fill out the online application for that particular school and then you attach your essays, resume, etc. and submit it electronically.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 22, 2006, 01:55:58 PM
Didn't you say I had no shot at a top school? I may be mistaken. This addendum, do I write it on my LSDAS profile as part of the general application or send each school an individual letter?

Umm... go look through and show me were I said anything remotely close to that.  I wouldn't say something like that in any case.  In fact, I advised you to apply to several T25s and even T14s.  In other words, yes, you are mistaken.

The addendum you just write as a Word document and attach along with your other essays and materials.  When you apply through LSDAS, you will fill out the online application for that particular school and then you attach your essays, resume, etc. and submit it electronically.

lmao - jay, you are a trip :P
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 22, 2006, 02:18:07 PM
Didn't you say I had no shot at a top school? I may be mistaken. This addendum, do I write it on my LSDAS profile as part of the general application or send each school an individual letter?

If you're applying thru LSDAS, it's really easy.  Just attach it as a separate doc to each of your applications.  If you need examples, let me know.  I had a gpa addendum myself.

Mo, you mind sharing your grades addendum?  I need some ideas for mine.  Lemme know  :)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 22, 2006, 05:09:52 PM
Didn't you say I had no shot at a top school? I may be mistaken. This addendum, do I write it on my LSDAS profile as part of the general application or send each school an individual letter?

If you're applying thru LSDAS, it's really easy.  Just attach it as a separate doc to each of your applications.  If you need examples, let me know.  I had a gpa addendum myself.

Mo, you mind sharing your grades addendum?  I need some ideas for mine.  Lemme know  :)

nope, of course not. I'll pm it to you later on tonight (headed out right now.)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 22, 2006, 05:15:04 PM
Ok my mistake. I am still deciding on the number of schools to apply to and where. Definately NOT Harvard! But damn, if I did apply and got in....

Thank you all for the advice and guidance, I do appreciate it. Jay I meant no harm saying that at all. I did say I was mistaken. Oh well, thank you too!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 22, 2006, 05:39:14 PM
Here are some stats for you regarding black applicants to U of Michigan (based on Grutter, so they are dated):

LSAT/GPA - Accepted/Applied

161-163/2.50-2.74 - 2/3

164-166/2.50-2.74 - 1/1

167-169/2.50-2.74 - 2/2

170-180/2.50-2.74 - 0/1

167-169/2.25-2.49 - 1/1

Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 22, 2006, 05:48:56 PM
I think I will apply to at least 8 schools.

In no particular order:

UNLV
Univ of Illinois-Champaign
Univ of San Diego
DePaul
Arizona
UConn
Loyola (Chicago)

One I haven't decided on yet...

I will let you all know what happens as it happens!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 22, 2006, 05:49:45 PM
Didn't you say I had no shot at a top school? I may be mistaken. This addendum, do I write it on my LSDAS profile as part of the general application or send each school an individual letter?

If you're applying thru LSDAS, it's really easy.  Just attach it as a separate doc to each of your applications.  If you need examples, let me know.  I had a gpa addendum myself.

Mo, you mind sharing your grades addendum?  I need some ideas for mine.  Lemme know  :)

nope, of course not. I'll pm it to you later on tonight (headed out right now.)

thanks homie  :)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 22, 2006, 06:20:07 PM
I think I will apply to at least 8 schools.

In no particular order:

UNLV
Univ of Illinois-Champaign
Univ of San Diego
DePaul
Arizona
UConn
Loyola (Chicago)

One I haven't decided on yet...

I will let you all know what happens as it happens!

It's your call, but there are a few curiosities:

Why Loyola - Chicago and not Loyola - CA? 
Why UConn? 
Why no ASU?  Seems to make more sense than UConn.
Why DePaul?  There's a number of good Cali schools that are in the same range and equally attainable.

Where are the far reaches?  (USC, Northwestern, Michigan, Georgetown)

Not saying you don't have good reasons for you list, just interested in what they are.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 22, 2006, 06:28:34 PM
I think I will apply to at least 8 schools.

In no particular order:

UNLV
Univ of Illinois-Champaign
Univ of San Diego
DePaul
Arizona
UConn
Loyola (Chicago)

One I haven't decided on yet...

I will let you all know what happens as it happens!

It's your call, but there are a few curiosities:

Why Loyola - Chicago and not Loyola - CA? 
Why UConn? 
Why no ASU?  Seems to make more sense than UConn.
Why DePaul?  There's a number of good Cali schools that are in the same range and equally attainable.

Where are the far reaches?  (USC, Northwestern, Michigan, Georgetown)

Not saying you don't have good reasons for you list, just interested in what they are.

I've been to Loyola-CA and don't like the atmosphere. I have family in Storrs and the area is nice. It would be nice to take a weekend and visit with family during school. Besides, Yale is OUT for me! I wanted two schools in Illinois. Perhaps I can swap out DePaul for Univ of Illinois-Champaign. As far as the Cali schools: from what I have read they are notorious "Number Whores". At least the public schools are.

I only plan on applying to two far reaches. The one I PM'ed you on and another (say, G'Town?) and that's it.

I'll have to consider ASU.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 22, 2006, 08:47:36 PM
uconn is in hartford. i guess its close--ct is only 1 hour long, but just thought you should know that. also, lex, another poster will be a 1L there in the fall, so you should pm her and get info about the campus.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 22, 2006, 09:53:40 PM
hey, definitely apply to more schools then that. Eight is such a low number. 8? too tired to actually go back and count.  My opinion is that you should figure out a few schools you like and have atleast a 75% shot at. Then apply to every place else above it you would consider going to. I applied to 20 and had aome surprises. You may even get some fee wavors considering the lsat score. I mean, I thought your shot was limited in the T14, but the numbers presented for michigan say otherwise. Why not give it a shot and spend the money. Apply to yale as well. As much as I hate CT, it is definitely worth a shot and the money you spent on apps would be paid off in a month at a summer internship if you got in to a top 20 school.  Anyway, that is my advice. 
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 23, 2006, 09:51:25 AM
Calitransplant, I'mma have to smack you. >:(

Yes, you have a 2.41 - but you also have a 170+ LSAT and you're black.  You have got to put some T20 and T14 schools in there - not because you should definitely go to one, but because you should leave yourself the option.  Most may reject you, who knows, but someone will take a chance on you because of your LSAT score.  Esp. if you write a good addendum that makes those grades look like poor indicators of your ability.

Trust us on this. You will thank us later.  I'm so tired of seeing Black folk underestimate where they can get into school!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: cui bono? on July 23, 2006, 11:22:46 AM
Calitransplant, I'mma have to smack you. >:(

Yes, you have a 2.41 - but you also have a 170+ LSAT and you're black.  You have got to put some T20 and T14 schools in there - not because you should definitely go to one, but because you should leave yourself the option.  Most may reject you, who knows, but someone will take a chance on you because of your LSAT score.  Esp. if you write a good addendum that makes those grades look like poor indicators of your ability.

Trust us on this. You will thank us later.  I'm so tired of seeing Black folk underestimate where they can get into school!

Well said, mobell!   :)  'cept of course for the smacking part  :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 23, 2006, 02:07:34 PM
Calitransplant, I'mma have to smack you. >:(

Yes, you have a 2.41 - but you also have a 170+ LSAT and you're black.  You have got to put some T20 and T14 schools in there - not because you should definitely go to one, but because you should leave yourself the option.  Most may reject you, who knows, but someone will take a chance on you because of your LSAT score.  Esp. if you write a good addendum that makes those grades look like poor indicators of your ability.

Trust us on this. You will thank us later.  I'm so tired of seeing Black folk underestimate where they can get into school!

ok ok ok. no beatdowns. i get the message.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jfields32 on July 23, 2006, 02:10:29 PM
I have a 2.8 and i am aiming for a 170 or so and even if for reason i only score a 165 i would still apply to a couple of T14. Just get your GPA addendum right.  And looking at those stats i should prob apply to Michigan although i can only imagine the atmosphere there for black students isnt too good.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 23, 2006, 03:24:47 PM
I have a 2.8 and i am aiming for a 170 or so and even if for reason i only score a 165 i would still apply to a couple of T14. Just get your GPA addendum right.  And looking at those stats i should prob apply to Michigan although i can only imagine the atmosphere there for black students isnt too good.

Say what?  What are you basing this on?  The atmosphere for minorities at Michigan is as good as any other top school and probably better than most.  The law school itself has a very collegial vibe and the greater campus as a whole has a very large black population.  I can't think of one good reason why a prospective black applicant would decide not to apply.  It's a great school that provides great opportunities.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: thorc954 on July 23, 2006, 04:32:42 PM
Cali, you pmed me earlier, and I was on here, so I figured I would just respond on here. I dont know if you could get into yale, but lets be honest here, you dont know either.  The application process is completely assinine for all applicants. I dont know why I got outwardly rejected at BU And FU and got into GW which I consider a stronger school. It is so up in the air for white applicants like me. The URM situation is also screwey.  Some schools will see your lsat score and snap you up.  My advice is apply early and with a good addendum. Yale may want you. It also seems like a lot of splitters get into Michigan. They love lsats. I dont think it is a good environment for URMs or non-URMs. I think its too cold. But hey, if you get in, treat yourself to a new jacket or something.  My point is simply that you really dont know what school may want you. Apply everywhere you think you would go. You never know how your diversity will come into play. If you would have got into yale and you settled for UNLV would you regret it?  What is another 60 bucks for an application?  You may even get some fee waivors. Dont know how to go about that, but I paid for 18 applications. After paying 55K a year for three years, I wont even be thinking about the 2K i put into applications. Beg your parents or family to come up with the money or work a little extra. My only advice would be to put in an application to all the T20 you would consider starting August 1st or September 1st depending on deadlines. If you dont here anything positive by december you can always submit more applications. Just dont sell yourself short. 

Heck, come to GW, I need some DC friends.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 23, 2006, 05:37:10 PM
I have a 2.8 and i am aiming for a 170 or so and even if for reason i only score a 165 i would still apply to a couple of T14. Just get your GPA addendum right.  And looking at those stats i should prob apply to Michigan although i can only imagine the atmosphere there for black students isnt too good.

better listen to jay, mr fields. he knows his application stuff. you go get that 170, then we can start comparing notes on this whole application process. are you taking the Sept 30th exam? PM me and we can talk.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 23, 2006, 05:45:50 PM
I hear ya, thor. I think this whole process is screwing my brain cells up. I can and will apply to MORE than 8 schools. And jay I am taking your list you PM'ed me and starting there. There may be a few additions. I think with the average admissions fee around $75 I can spend $1,125 and apply to 15 schools and see. You're right and I tried not to think this because I didn't want to be all Bourgeoisie because of a test score. But there are schools that will accept me on primarily LSAT scores alone. So 15 schools it is and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jfields32 on July 23, 2006, 07:17:55 PM
i am applying to michigan and would go in s heartbeat if accepted. My reasons for thinking it could be a bad environment were unfounded. I just thought the whole case involving affirmative action could have had a neg effect toward the way URM are treated. Its totally unfounded but that is what i based my previous post on.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 23, 2006, 08:33:01 PM
::steps up to podium:: Everyone who desires to go to Yale should apply.  ::steps down from podium::
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: bass on July 23, 2006, 10:12:21 PM
::steps up to podium:: Everyone who desires to go to Yale should apply.  ::steps down from podium::

::steps up to podium:: Everyone who applies to Yale should be accepted, thereby increasing the class size 3700 and the acceptance rate to 100%.  ::steps down from podium::

HLS #1.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 23, 2006, 10:18:10 PM
HLS #1.

::motions to chair:: Point of correction: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/brief/lawrank_brief.php  ;)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 23, 2006, 10:49:48 PM
::steps up to podium:: Everyone who desires to go to Yale should apply.  ::steps down from podium::

I read that the average GPA of URM's is 2.70 and their LSAT average was 155. That seem odd to anyone? Non-URM's had an average GPA of 3.30 with an LSAT of 164.

Apply wherever you can or want to. It's your money (or someone that REALLY likes you). I'm definately going after a specific 15 schools.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 23, 2006, 11:06:27 PM
I read that the average GPA of URM's is 2.70 and their LSAT average was 155. That seem odd to anyone? Non-URM's had an average GPA of 3.30 with an LSAT of 164.

So what you're saying is that the average URM scores better than 67% of other LSAT takers and the average non-URM scores in the 92nd percentile?

That's amazing.  More accurately, it's impossible^2.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 23, 2006, 11:07:28 PM
I just thought the whole case involving affirmative action could have had a neg effect toward the way URM are treated.

Not even a tiny little bit.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 23, 2006, 11:36:53 PM
This is from a poster on a different board.

"black median scores are 141.6 and for whites a 152, about 10 points higher. Only 1745 blacks scored at or above 150, the median score for students at third and fourth tier law schools. More than 36,000 whites scored above 150. The average black applicant to law school has a B- undergraduate GPA(2.70) while whites average a B+ (3.30)."

I'll look to find anything to substantiate these figures.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 05:14:38 AM
This is from a poster on a different board.

"black median scores are 141.6 and for whites a 152, about 10 points higher. Only 1745 blacks scored at or above 150, the median score for students at third and fourth tier law schools. More than 36,000 whites scored above 150. The average black applicant to law school has a B- undergraduate GPA(2.70) while whites average a B+ (3.30)."



I'll look to find anything to substantiate these figures.

http://www.lsacnet.org/research/LSAT-Performance-with-Regional-Gender-and-Racial-Ethnic-Breakdowns-1997%961998-Through-2003%962004-Testing-Years.pdf
http://www.lsacnet.org/data/National-Applicant-Trends.pdf
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: bass on July 24, 2006, 06:18:09 AM
HLS #1.

::motions to chair:: Point of correction: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/brief/lawrank_brief.php  ;)

touche.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 24, 2006, 07:13:14 AM
You know what, Alcibiades? Once in school it doesn't matter. I still don't believe the GPA thing....
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 07:24:10 AM
You know what, Alcibiades? Once in school it doesn't matter. I still don't believe the GPA thing....

You said you were looking for something to substantiate the claim; I responded to your request.  As for what matters or doesn't...in the end, nothing matters.  Let us now engage in existentialist banter.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 24, 2006, 07:26:02 AM
You know what, Alcibiades? Once in school it doesn't matter. I still don't believe the GPA thing....

You said you were looking for something to substantiate the claim; I responded to your request.  As for what matters or doesn't...in the end, nothing matters.  Let us now engage in existentialist banter.


Alci: Too early for all these big words. I haven't had my coffee yet.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 24, 2006, 07:35:32 AM
You know what, Alcibiades? Once in school it doesn't matter. I still don't believe the GPA thing....

You said you were looking for something to substantiate the claim; I responded to your request.  As for what matters or doesn't...in the end, nothing matters.  Let us now engage in existentialist banter.

I was looking. Thanks. No worries.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: John Galt on July 24, 2006, 07:43:56 AM
You know what, Alcibiades? Once in school it doesn't matter. I still don't believe the GPA thing....

You said you were looking for something to substantiate the claim; I responded to your request.  As for what matters or doesn't...in the end, nothing matters.  Let us now engage in existentialist banter.


Alci: Too early for all these big words. I haven't had my coffee yet.

As if you didn't discuss existentialism in Asike's class to no end.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 24, 2006, 07:47:25 AM
You know what, Alcibiades? Once in school it doesn't matter. I still don't believe the GPA thing....

You said you were looking for something to substantiate the claim; I responded to your request.  As for what matters or doesn't...in the end, nothing matters.  Let us now engage in existentialist banter.


Alci: Too early for all these big words. I haven't had my coffee yet.

As if you didn't discuss existentialism in Asike's class to no end.


No babes, I only took a beginner's class with Asike.

No existentialism talk.

We talked about justice.

How ironic!  :D


Mornin' btw :-*
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 24, 2006, 08:14:52 AM
well you lucked out.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 24, 2006, 08:17:21 AM
well you lucked out.


Not really -- I just knew better than to double major in philosophy   :P ;)


I stuck with the easy stuff. You know -- Business Communication and what not.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 24, 2006, 08:27:21 AM
well you lucked out.


Not really -- I just knew better than to double major in philosophy   :P ;)


I stuck with the easy stuff. You know -- Business Communication and what not.

lol :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: milan328 on July 24, 2006, 08:31:14 AM
Good Morning All,
Hate to hijack the thread..but if it stating on the LSAC website that particular schools will not being accepting LOR for the fall '07 year, does that mean that they are looking heavily on grades & the LSAT exam?  ..just wondering...

Thanks for all the replies in advance!  Hope everyone had a fantastic weekend!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: crazy8 on July 24, 2006, 08:34:41 AM
Good Morning All,
Hate to hijack the thread..but if it stating on the LSAC website that particular schools will not being accepting LOR for the fall '07 year, does that mean that they are looking heavily on grades & the LSAT exam?  ..just wondering...

Thanks for all the replies in advance!  Hope everyone had a fantastic weekend!

hmm that's weird.  ???  Maybe they're not accepting it through lsac, but the recommender can send it directly to the school.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: bass on July 24, 2006, 08:36:26 AM
Good Morning All,
Hate to hijack the thread..but if it stating on the LSAC website that particular schools will not being accepting LOR for the fall '07 year, does that mean that they are looking heavily on grades & the LSAT exam?  ..just wondering...

Thanks for all the replies in advance!  Hope everyone had a fantastic weekend!

hmm that's weird.  ???  Maybe they're not accepting it through lsac, but the recommender can send it directly to the school.

That is no doubt what it means.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 08:38:41 AM
well you lucked out.


Not really -- I just knew better than to double major in philosophy   :P ;)


I stuck with the easy stuff. You know -- Business Communication and what not.



PHILOSOPHY MAJORS UNITE!  Here's to the last four years of pulling all-nighters to compare Fanon's Negritude to Irigaray's Lacanian/psychoanalytic feminism.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: milan328 on July 24, 2006, 08:39:57 AM
Thanks MD & ....  That's what I thought.  I am thinking of forwarding the LORs anyway, just as a precaution.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 24, 2006, 08:41:42 AM
Thanks MD & ....  That's what I thought.  I am thinking of forwarding the LORs anyway, just as a precaution.

some schools don't accept LORs at all. They don't believe in them. I think George Mason is one.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: cui bono? on July 24, 2006, 08:46:11 AM
Thanks MD & ....  That's what I thought.  I am thinking of forwarding the LORs anyway, just as a precaution.

some schools don't accept LORs at all. They don't believe in them. I think George Mason is one.

Thats true some of the schools that I thought about applying to didnt require a LOR,  some only required one so I think those schools are trying to do away with them altogether soon.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: milan328 on July 24, 2006, 08:48:27 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments/advice. 


 
 
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 24, 2006, 09:36:08 AM
A question for all the HLS students on this board:

Are you aware of any individuals at Harvard with sub-3.4 LSDAC gpas? For an African-American male, will a lsat better than 168 do the trick, regardless of circumstances? I ask this because I've always figured that HLS would be out of reach for me, despite a ridiculously positive grade trend and a nice lsat score.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 09:56:29 AM
A question for all the HLS students on this board:

Are you aware of any individuals at Harvard with sub-3.4 LSDAC gpas? For an African-American male, will a lsat better than 168 do the trick, regardless of circumstances? I ask this because I've always figured that HLS would be out of reach for me, despite a ridiculously positive grade trend and a nice lsat score.



Yes.  I also know of Harvard students with sub-160 LSAT scores.  Impossible is nothing.   :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: calitransplant on July 24, 2006, 09:57:12 AM
I'd like to know that too. Apply anyways. Can't hurt.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 10:08:21 AM
A question for all the HLS students on this board:

Are you aware of any individuals at Harvard with sub-3.4 LSDAC gpas?

Numerous.  Including this guy.

Quote
For an African-American male, will a lsat better than 168 do the trick, regardless of circumstances?

I don't know what regardless of circumstances means, but if your GPA is like a 3.1-3.3 range, a 168 will probably "do the trick".  I don't think that is "regardless of circumstances" though.  It's assuming that you have an outstanding application, which I don't think is all that difficult.

Even if it's lower, you still have a solid shot depending on how low, what school, what major, how your application looks, and all the soft factors.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 10:13:37 AM
A question for all the HLS students on this board:

Are you aware of any individuals at Harvard with sub-3.4 LSDAC gpas?

Numerous.  Including this guy.

Quote
For an African-American male, will a lsat better than 168 do the trick, regardless of circumstances?

I don't know what regardless of circumstances means, but if your GPA is like a 3.1-3.3 range, a 168 will probably "do the trick".  I don't think that is "regardless of circumstances" though.  It's assuming that you have an outstanding application, which I don't think is all that difficult.

Even if it's lower, you still have a solid shot depending on how low, what school, what major, how your application looks, and all the soft factors.



In other words: apply early, apply widely, apply wisely.  You've got a shot.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 24, 2006, 10:19:17 AM
yo, I think I was speaking a bit too generally. "Regardless of circumstances" means a 3.33 overall and a 3.82 from the degree-granting school. Anyway, thanks for the input. I'm on this thread alot, and I pretty much ask varations of the same question constantly, because this whole process has me bugging out. Thanks for the input people.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 10:25:55 AM
Weren't you the one talking about how you were gonna "destroy" the LSATs?  If you come anything close to that, you will be fine.  With the 3.3 from Wake, If you break 160 you will be in at lesat one T14.  I think your questions have been for the most part answered.  Mid or High 160s will put you in a good spot for Harvard.  I don't know what your app looks like though.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: UVA2Law on July 24, 2006, 10:36:39 AM
This is a hypothetical application, being that I am just going into my third year.  I plan to apply wide and plan to aim high but I am just curious what others in my peer group think who have had experience with this....

University of Virginia - American Politics Major
Birth City: Charlottesville,VA
LSAT: 165 (practice scores are here currently)
GPA: 3.4 (upward trend 3rd year hopefully; aiming 3.8 for both semesters) Major GPA: 3.6
Black Male

EC: Co-founder of an after school program running in Cville, VA and Miami, FL, employeee at UVA Law for 2 years, intern at law office since senior in high school, intern at state capital for a semester program with a state senator

Thanks
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: UVA2Law on July 24, 2006, 10:44:08 AM
I should clarify a few things:  During the school year i work maybe 10-15 hours at the law school; the work for the law office has calmed down some and I do work there now maybe once or twice a month when my help is needed (mostly real estate recordings, deed/title searches/updates)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 10:44:35 AM
I had very similar numbers (3.6/163).

You're in a good spot.  Apply early and you'd probably get Michigan and U.Va, perhaps Columbia and Harvard.

Just get that LSAT and GPA as high as humanly possible.  If you have to cut down on ECs to do so, do it!


Good luck.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 10:46:08 AM
This is a hypothetical application, being that I am just going into my third year.  I plan to apply wide and plan to aim high but I am just curious what others in my peer group think who have had experience with this....

University of Virginia - American Politics Major
Birth City: Charlottesville,VA
LSAT: 165 (practice scores are here currently)
GPA: 3.4 (upward trend 3rd year hopefully; aiming 3.8 for both semesters) Major GPA: 3.6
Black Male

EC: Co-founder of an after school program running in Cville, VA and Miami, FL, employeee at UVA Law for 2 years, intern at law office since senior in high school, intern at state capital for a semester program with a state senator

Thanks

With those numbers you would probably be good at most T14s, including good shot at H.  Probably not so much at Y and S, but it would be worth an application, especially since you were born in Charlottesville.  Since you're still in school, just so you know, a good way to boost your GPA a bit is to take a bunch of slack summer classes somewhere.  Would have been good for me to know that info beforehand.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 10:46:56 AM
By the way, your name could not be more misleading.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: UVA2Law on July 24, 2006, 10:48:32 AM
I have gotten that before... Most people on here think I am 2L at UVA Law..... its meant to say (from)UVA 2(to) Law(school)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 11:31:11 AM
Since you're still in school, just so you know, a good way to boost your GPA a bit is to take a bunch of slack summer classes somewhere.

Yeah, you should aim for a 4.0, or close to it, the next two semesters, even if that means taking some fluff classes.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 12:10:40 PM
Since you're still in school, just so you know, a good way to boost your GPA a bit is to take a bunch of slack summer classes somewhere.

Yeah, you should aim for a 4.0, or close to it, the next two semesters, even if that means taking some fluff classes.


Fully seconded.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: pikey on July 24, 2006, 12:32:48 PM
I know I'm probably being paranoid and OCOA, but how long does it take for schools to send you stuff?  Despite taking the June LSAT, I haven't had a single piece of mail (email or snail mail) from any schools.  ???  It doesn't help when people on the lsat apps boards are discussing the wonderful waivers they're received.  At this point I'd be grateful for a postcard from no name U, anything that signifies that law schools know I'm here!  :-\  Reassurance?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: crazy8 on July 24, 2006, 12:34:47 PM
I know I'm probably being paranoid and OCOA, but how long does it take for schools to send you stuff?  Despite taking the June LSAT, I haven't had a single piece of mail (email or snail mail) from any schools.  ???  It doesn't help when people on the lsat apps boards are discussing the wonderful waivers they're received.  At this point I'd be grateful for a postcard from no name U, anything that signifies that law schools know I'm here!  :-\  Reassurance?

Is the adress they have on file for you your Bermuda address?  That could be a possibility.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 12:35:46 PM
I know I'm probably being paranoid and OCOA, but how long does it take for schools to send you stuff?  Despite taking the June LSAT, I haven't had a single piece of mail (email or snail mail) from any schools.  ???  It doesn't help when people on the lsat apps boards are discussing the wonderful waivers they're received.  At this point I'd be grateful for a postcard from no name U, anything that signifies that law schools know I'm here!  :-\  Reassurance?


Be ye reassured.  Plus, the guaranteed HLS/YLS acceptances are worth the application fees!

Being serious -- it's really early in the game.  I didn't start getting stuff for a while (though I did take the October lsat).  Give it some time; you'll be fine.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: pikey on July 24, 2006, 12:37:30 PM
I know I'm probably being paranoid and OCOA, but how long does it take for schools to send you stuff?  Despite taking the June LSAT, I haven't had a single piece of mail (email or snail mail) from any schools.  ???  It doesn't help when people on the lsat apps boards are discussing the wonderful waivers they're received.  At this point I'd be grateful for a postcard from no name U, anything that signifies that law schools know I'm here!  :-\  Reassurance?

Is the adress they have on file for you your Bermuda address?  That could be a possibility.

Yes it is.   :(  Do you think that they won't send stuff (ie fee waivers) to Bermuda?  Last year when I requested info from a few schools they sent it here.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 12:49:03 PM
I know I'm probably being paranoid and OCOA, but how long does it take for schools to send you stuff?  Despite taking the June LSAT, I haven't had a single piece of mail (email or snail mail) from any schools.  ???  It doesn't help when people on the lsat apps boards are discussing the wonderful waivers they're received.  At this point I'd be grateful for a postcard from no name U, anything that signifies that law schools know I'm here!  :-\  Reassurance?

Moni, from my experience they won't send fee waivers until the application cycle begins.  Look for them starting in September and on into the fall.  If you're registered with LSDAS and have signed off on receiving info, you'll be getting more mail than you desire.  Hell, I was still getting stuff in March and April from random schools.

It is summertime, admissions isn't really sweatin that stuff right now.  You will be good to go at every school in the country.  The only remotely ambiguous one is Yale and that's hardly so.  Enjoy yourself.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: UVA2Law on July 24, 2006, 01:15:24 PM
Since you're still in school, just so you know, a good way to boost your GPA a bit is to take a bunch of slack summer classes somewhere.

Yeah, you should aim for a 4.0, or close to it, the next two semesters, even if that means taking some fluff classes.

Thanks everyone!  These kind of discussions are really helpful.  Do many law schools should have correspondence programs between current and prospective minority students (or non URMs)?  I would guess that several undergrads would find it to be VERY helpful, myself included.


Fully seconded.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 24, 2006, 01:20:09 PM
what do you mean by correspondence programs? I know that UVA has a mentoring program called Law for Us that pairs UVA students with law students. Is that what you're talking about?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: pikey on July 24, 2006, 01:24:14 PM
I know I'm probably being paranoid and OCOA, but how long does it take for schools to send you stuff?  Despite taking the June LSAT, I haven't had a single piece of mail (email or snail mail) from any schools.  ???  It doesn't help when people on the lsat apps boards are discussing the wonderful waivers they're received.  At this point I'd be grateful for a postcard from no name U, anything that signifies that law schools know I'm here!  :-\  Reassurance?

Moni, from my experience they won't send fee waivers until the application cycle begins.  Look for them starting in September and on into the fall.  If you're registered with LSDAS and have signed off on receiving info, you'll be getting more mail than you desire.  Hell, I was still getting stuff in March and April from random schools.

It is summertime, admissions isn't really sweatin that stuff right now.  You will be good to go at every school in the country.  The only remotely ambiguous one is Yale and that's hardly so.  Enjoy yourself.

Thanks.  I'll attempt to chill out  ;)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: LeveragedSellout on July 24, 2006, 01:44:10 PM
I know I'm probably being paranoid and OCOA, but how long does it take for schools to send you stuff?  Despite taking the June LSAT, I haven't had a single piece of mail (email or snail mail) from any schools.  ???  It doesn't help when people on the lsat apps boards are discussing the wonderful waivers they're received.  At this point I'd be grateful for a postcard from no name U, anything that signifies that law schools know I'm here!  :-\  Reassurance?

Moni, from my experience they won't send fee waivers until the application cycle begins.  Look for them starting in September and on into the fall.  If you're registered with LSDAS and have signed off on receiving info, you'll be getting more mail than you desire.  Hell, I was still getting stuff in March and April from random schools.

It is summertime, admissions isn't really sweatin that stuff right now.  You will be good to go at every school in the country.  The only remotely ambiguous one is Yale and that's hardly so.  Enjoy yourself.

Thanks.  I'll attempt to chill out  ;)

You've got a 175. You should probably be more worried about housing costs in Cambridge or New Haven....
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: pikey on July 24, 2006, 01:48:02 PM
I know I'm probably being paranoid and OCOA, but how long does it take for schools to send you stuff?  Despite taking the June LSAT, I haven't had a single piece of mail (email or snail mail) from any schools.  ???  It doesn't help when people on the lsat apps boards are discussing the wonderful waivers they're received.  At this point I'd be grateful for a postcard from no name U, anything that signifies that law schools know I'm here!  :-\  Reassurance?

Moni, from my experience they won't send fee waivers until the application cycle begins.  Look for them starting in September and on into the fall.  If you're registered with LSDAS and have signed off on receiving info, you'll be getting more mail than you desire.  Hell, I was still getting stuff in March and April from random schools.

It is summertime, admissions isn't really sweatin that stuff right now.  You will be good to go at every school in the country.  The only remotely ambiguous one is Yale and that's hardly so.  Enjoy yourself.

Thanks.  I'll attempt to chill out  ;)

You've got a 175. You should probably be more worried about housing costs in Cambridge or New Haven....

Yes well, I'm trying to save my $ for those housing costs and not for 20 diff applications  ;)  Or maybe for my Chanel purse  :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 01:58:33 PM
Yes well, I'm trying to save my $ for those housing costs and not for 20 diff applications  ;)  Or maybe for my Chanel purse  :D :D :D


Ha.  *Resumes eating moldy breadcrusts and paying in pennies to save up enough...*
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 02:08:37 PM
Yes well, I'm trying to save my $ for those housing costs and not for 20 diff applications  ;)  Or maybe for my Chanel purse  :D :D :D

That's simple.  You can apply to Harvard, Stanford, and Yale and then ONLY other schools if you would possibly go to them for free over one of the other three.  Be honest with yourself.  (Would I really go to X school over HYS?)

P.S.  That purse won't make your life any better  :P
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 02:11:39 PM
then ONLY other schools if you would possibly go to them for free over one of the other three.

Meaning CC.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 02:15:34 PM
then ONLY other schools if you would possibly go to them for free over one of the other three.

Meaning CC.

Yeah, I'd say Columbia/NYU for free are your only acceptable alternatives.  Because we said so.  :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 02:17:03 PM
Hm, I would have taken Chicago over Stanford and NYU.  It's a viable option.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: UVA2Law on July 24, 2006, 02:20:43 PM
what do you mean by correspondence programs? I know that UVA has a mentoring program called Law for Us that pairs UVA students with law students. Is that what you're talking about?


  From what I have heard about the program, Law for Us sounds like an excellent program...  I didn't quite understand but I think this program only pairs undergrads with UVA Law students... right?  Is this something that most law schools have?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 02:21:14 PM
Hm, I would have taken Chicago over Stanford and NYU.  It's a viable option.

Whereas I don't think I'd go to Chicago for free over any of them.  It's always a matter of preference.  But, yeah, Chicago is also acceptable.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 02:22:07 PM
Hm, I would have taken Chicago over Stanford and NYU.  It's a viable option.



Ditto.  I would've taken Chicago over Stanford.  But Chicago doesn't seem to be nearly as generous as NYU, correct?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 02:25:45 PM
Hm, I would have taken Chicago over Stanford and NYU.  It's a viable option.



Ditto.  I would've taken Chicago over Stanford.  But Chicago doesn't seem to be nearly as generous as NYU, correct?

True.  But when schools throw "merit" money at you, it's always to become more desirable.  So the question to ask is, what's the trade-off?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 24, 2006, 02:31:15 PM
thats what i thought my post said, that it pairs UVA students with [UVA] law students. so whats your question? I don't know about other law schools having formal programs, but maybe they do. Are you asking if you can get a mentor that goes to Yale Law instead of Virginia? I think that'd have to be through informal networking.

what do you mean by correspondence programs? I know that UVA has a mentoring program called Law for Us that pairs UVA students with law students. Is that what you're talking about?


  From what I have heard about the program, Law for Us sounds like an excellent program...  I didn't quite understand but I think this program only pairs undergrads with UVA Law students... right?  Is this something that most law schools have?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 02:37:58 PM
Hm, I would have taken Chicago over Stanford and NYU.  It's a viable option.



Ditto.  I would've taken Chicago over Stanford.  But Chicago doesn't seem to be nearly as generous as NYU, correct?

True.  But when schools throw "merit" money at you, it's always to become more desirable.  So the question to ask is, what's the trade-off?

I can't say I'd turn down a merit-based full-ride at Columbia or NYU for any school (assuming my current financial aid package as the alternative).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 02:43:54 PM
It's a personal decision, but I will say this: I've been amazed at how much people assume about you, and the comparative judgments they make, just by where you go to school.  A lifetime of such assumptions and judgments might be enough to turn down money to go elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 24, 2006, 02:50:27 PM
I find it interesting that Alci, Lacoste, and Jay would have thought about attending Chicago.  So far, I don't think I've seen Chi get a lot of love from black students.  I may apply...Do yall know if the black students there like it/are comfortable there?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 02:52:26 PM
I know a couple of people there...one is a rising 2L, the other just graduated and was in all sorts of stuff, including the (real) admissions committee.  They both have/had lots of positive things to say.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 02:54:37 PM
I can't speak to the Black folks there, but if its one of the better schools you get into, 3 years ain't bad.  You can suck it up; that school's reputation is pristine within the legal community and outside.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: crazy8 on July 24, 2006, 03:02:41 PM
It's a personal decision, but I will say this: I've been amazed at how much people assume about you, and the comparative judgments they make, just by where you go to school.  A lifetime of such assumptions and judgments might be enough to turn down money to go elsewhere.

Alci, generally speaking I think that really only matters in regards to the T14 schools v. all the rest.  Don't think that anyone will look differently at someone who went to Columbia as opposed to Yale/Harvard. Harvard gets the most love by people even though it's not ranked #1.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 24, 2006, 03:03:19 PM
I think the only way I would have gone to Chicago is if (1) I got into no other law school - period and (2) They paid me to attend.  Otherwise, I woulda figured law school was NOT for me :o
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 03:04:43 PM
Ouch.  Chicago was my dream school for undergrad.  They dinged me without batting an eye, though.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:06:33 PM
It's a personal decision, but I will say this: I've been amazed at how much people assume about you, and the comparative judgments they make, just by where you go to school.  A lifetime of such assumptions and judgments might be enough to turn down money to go elsewhere.

Alci, generally speaking I think that really only matters in regards to the T14 schools v. all the rest.  Don't think that anyone will look differently at someone who went to Columbia as opposed to Yale/Harvard. Harvard gets the most love by people even though it's not ranked #1.

Within the legal profession (the only audience I care about), I can assure you that's not the case.  And it's all relative...I wasn't talking specifically about Harvard and Yale.  In AL, the same judgment would be made w/r/t UA.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 03:08:09 PM
I think the only way I would have gone to Chicago is if (1) I got into no other law school - period and (2) They paid me to attend.  Otherwise, I woulda figured law school was NOT for me :o

I won't take it that far, but Chicago was probably behind Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown, Penn, Boalt, and maybe even UVa on my list.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 24, 2006, 03:08:54 PM
I think the only way I would have gone to Chicago is if (1) I got into no other law school - period and (2) They paid me to attend.  Otherwise, I woulda figured law school was NOT for me :o

How come Mo? Don't leave me hangin :o ;)

I think the only way I would have gone to Chicago is if (1) I got into no other law school - period and (2) They paid me to attend.  Otherwise, I woulda figured law school was NOT for me :o

I won't take it that far, but Chicago was probably behind Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown, Penn, Boalt, and maybe even UVa on my list.

How come?  I'm just curious after all...Chi is on my maybe list
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 24, 2006, 03:09:12 PM
It's a personal decision, but I will say this: I've been amazed at how much people assume about you, and the comparative judgments they make, just by where you go to school.  A lifetime of such assumptions and judgments might be enough to turn down money to go elsewhere.

Alci, generally speaking I think that really only matters in regards to the T14 schools v. all the rest.  Don't think that anyone will look differently at someone who went to Columbia as opposed to Yale/Harvard. Harvard gets the most love by people even though it's not ranked #1.

Within the legal profession, I can assure you that's not the case. 
And it's all relative...I wasn't talking specifically about Harvard and Yale.  In AL, the same judgment would be made w/r/t UA.

Correct. I'm not in law school to make people ooo and ahhh over my university; I'm in law school to get a desirable J-O-B. And I picked my school based on what would make that as easy as possible :)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 24, 2006, 03:10:11 PM
i didn't hear good things about black folks or the community when i was applying so i didn't apply there either.

alci--what does this sentence mean?
"In AL, the same judgment would be made with regard to UA."
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 24, 2006, 03:13:11 PM
I think the only way I would have gone to Chicago is if (1) I got into no other law school - period and (2) They paid me to attend.  Otherwise, I woulda figured law school was NOT for me :o

How come Mo? Don't leave me hangin :o ;)

I think the only way I would have gone to Chicago is if (1) I got into no other law school - period and (2) They paid me to attend.  Otherwise, I woulda figured law school was NOT for me :o

I won't take it that far, but Chicago was probably behind Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown, Penn, Boalt, and maybe even UVa on my list.

How come?  I'm just curious after all...Chi is on my maybe list

Everyone there (including the White people) is miserable. They have that screwed up quarterly schedule, which means you have work harder in short periods of time - I mean yo, that's an additional exam period right there.  They glorify the Socratic method. It's conservative (but not even warm, fuzzy social conservatives - it's cold, callously calculating economic conservatives.) There aren't any Black people. It's known for being an arse-busting school. All of that, and it doesn't even have layman's prestige.  It's cold and windy.  Altogether - yuck. I didn't even apply.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:13:52 PM
i didn't hear good things about black folks or the community when i was applying so i didn't apply there either.

alci--what does this sentence mean?
"In AL, the same judgment would be made with regard to UA."

In Alabama, the University of Alabama is the flagship law school and would therefore be the the one to get you those "wow, s/he must be top-notch" judgments...versus, say, Samford.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: crazy8 on July 24, 2006, 03:14:44 PM
It's a personal decision, but I will say this: I've been amazed at how much people assume about you, and the comparative judgments they make, just by where you go to school.  A lifetime of such assumptions and judgments might be enough to turn down money to go elsewhere.

Alci, generally speaking I think that really only matters in regards to the T14 schools v. all the rest.  Don't think that anyone will look differently at someone who went to Columbia as opposed to Yale/Harvard. Harvard gets the most love by people even though it's not ranked #1.

Within the legal profession (the only audience I care about), I can assure you that's not the case.  And it's all relative...I wasn't talking specifically about Harvard and Yale.  In AL, the same judgment would be made w/r/t UA.

okay then I think we agree.  ??? I thought the subject matter was about the T5.  Within the legal profession people are going to make judgments about your law school period.  The only way to get around it is to attend one of the T5s (or there about) imo.  UA will be fine if you choose to stay in AL, but leave AL and you might have problems.  Same for the others
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 24, 2006, 03:14:44 PM
LOL thanks Mo...yeah the quarter system didn't sit too well with me either.  And I was on their BLSA page, and it seemed like those students mainly went there bc it was the higest ranked school they got into.  I didn't get the warm and fuzzies the way I do when ppl talk about other schools.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 03:15:23 PM
How come?  I'm just curious after all...Chi is on my maybe list

Just personal preference based on some of the things I look at in a school, such as atmosphere, location, minority community, quality of life, etc.

Apply and if you get in, visit.  They'll pay for it
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:16:00 PM
They have that screwed up quarterly schedule, which means you have work harder in short periods of time - I mean yo, that's an additional exam period right there.

That was actually a drawing point for me...yes, an additional exam period, but also an opportunity to take more courses.  Being the generalist that I am, that's a big plus (I overloaded every semester in undergrad, but still wish I could have taken more courses).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 24, 2006, 03:17:15 PM
They have that screwed up quarterly schedule, which means you have work harder in short periods of time - I mean yo, that's an additional exam period right there.

That was actually a drawing point for me...yes, an additional exam period, but also an opportunity to take more courses.  Being the generalist that I am, that's a big plus (I overloaded every semester in undergrad, but still wish I could have taken more courses).

That is correct. You are the Chicago type - but it takes a very "special" person ;)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 24, 2006, 03:17:31 PM
lol warm fuzzies about law school? who have you been talking to miss celies? definitely can't be anyone at my school. LOL!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:18:24 PM
The only way to get around it is to attend one of the T5s (or there about) imo.

Oh trust me...people make judgments about those too.  I don't, since I know people sometimes turn down the top schools for personal/monetary reasons, but I've definitely seen it happen more times than I can count.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:18:47 PM
They have that screwed up quarterly schedule, which means you have work harder in short periods of time - I mean yo, that's an additional exam period right there.

That was actually a drawing point for me...yes, an additional exam period, but also an opportunity to take more courses.  Being the generalist that I am, that's a big plus (I overloaded every semester in undergrad, but still wish I could have taken more courses).

That is correct. You are the Chicago type - but it takes a very "special" person ;)

 :P
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 24, 2006, 03:19:18 PM
lol warm fuzzies about law school? who have you been talking to miss celies? definitely can't be anyone at my school. LOL!

U go to UVa right?  I've heard nothing but positives about that school.  A friend of mine is there as well and she loves it.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 03:20:50 PM
lol warm fuzzies about law school? who have you been talking to miss celies? definitely can't be anyone at my school. LOL!

U go to UVa right?  I've heard nothing but positives about that school.  A friend of mine is there as well and she loves it.

You ask enough minorities about UVa and you will hear a few negatives.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: faith2005 on July 24, 2006, 03:21:05 PM
really? a black person? i'm not tryna down uva but, um okay. I don't hate it, but law school generally doesn't give me the warm fuzzy feeling inside. lol!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:22:32 PM
lol warm fuzzies about law school? who have you been talking to miss celies? definitely can't be anyone at my school. LOL!

U go to UVa right?  I've heard nothing but positives about that school.  A friend of mine is there as well and she loves it.

You ask enough minorities about UVa and you will hear a few negatives.

Lol.  Yes, yes you will.  I love C-ville, though.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 24, 2006, 03:22:47 PM
really? a black person? i'm not tryna down uva but, um okay. I don't hate it, but law school generally doesn't give me the warm fuzzy feeling inside. lol!

I met one of your black classmates at a function a few days ago and he was a bit intense for me.  I woulda thought his arse went to Chicago but I looked at his nametag and couldn't believe it - UVA?! I thought y'all were supposed to be chill and fun! :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 24, 2006, 03:23:18 PM
really? a black person? i'm not tryna down uva but, um okay. I don't hate it, but law school generally doesn't give me the warm fuzzy feeling inside. lol!

Yup, a black person.

Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: John Galt on July 24, 2006, 03:27:12 PM
The only way to get around it is to attend one of the T5s (or there about) imo.

Oh trust me...people make judgments about those too.  I don't, since I know people sometimes turn down the top schools for personal/monetary reasons, but I've definitely seen it happen more times than I can count.

especially when presented with a black student from one of the T5. I'm just assuming though.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 03:28:08 PM
Don't worry Alci -- I'm with you on the quarter system.


Stanford Law is going to quarters as well.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:29:54 PM
Don't worry Alci -- I'm with you on the quarter system.


Stanford Law is going to quarters as well.

I know...wish Yale would do it.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 03:31:13 PM
Don't worry Alci -- I'm with you on the quarter system.


Stanford Law is going to quarters as well.

I know...wish Yale would do it.



given the plethora of offerings Harvard supplies I'm surprised they haven't entertained it as of late...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: John Galt on July 24, 2006, 03:31:55 PM
Don't worry Alci -- I'm with you on the quarter system.


Stanford Law is going to quarters as well.

I know...wish Yale would do it.


nerds. The both of yas
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 03:32:03 PM
LOL! who was it mo? pm me. wait, let's think...are his initals a.c.?

miss celies--i don't believe you. only b/c i know where you went to undergrad. ask them again. they might have started smokin over the summer.  :D unless, are you sure you want to go into corporate law? and are you republican? in that case, it'll be a very warm experience.



<--- Conservative + Clerk wannabe = Ideal U of Chicago Law student
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 24, 2006, 03:33:41 PM
I actually overloaded a lot in undergrad annd just overloaded this past semester - still wouldn't catch me at Chicago! You can overload anywhere you go!  It's not worth the misery! :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 24, 2006, 03:33:59 PM
LOL! who was it mo? pm me. wait, let's think...are his initals a.c.?

miss celies--i don't believe you. only b/c i know where you went to undergrad. ask them again. they might have started smokin over the summer.  :D unless, are you sure you want to go into corporate law? and are you republican? in that case, it'll be a very warm experience.

Ha ha...well, I've asked this person about the school and they have never said anything negative and they seem qite happy fwiw
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 03:36:02 PM
The UVa folks I know are all extremely happy (white and black).  But then I get these reports coming across my desk here at DOJ regarding race relations in C-Ville...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:36:43 PM
The only way to get around it is to attend one of the T5s (or there about) imo.

Oh trust me...people make judgments about those too.  I don't, since I know people sometimes turn down the top schools for personal/monetary reasons, but I've definitely seen it happen more times than I can count.

especially when presented with a black student from one of the T5. I'm just assuming though.


Lol, being a black guy, it is very amusing to watch non-black law students'/lawyers' faces when I say where I go to school...especially if they go/went to one ranked lower.  ::sigh:: They expect so little of us.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 24, 2006, 03:37:45 PM
The only way to get around it is to attend one of the T5s (or there about) imo.

Oh trust me...people make judgments about those too.  I don't, since I know people sometimes turn down the top schools for personal/monetary reasons, but I've definitely seen it happen more times than I can count.

especially when presented with a black student from one of the T5. I'm just assuming though.


Lol, being a black guy, it is very amusing to watch non-black law students'/lawyers' faces when I say where I go to school...especially if they go/went to one ranked lower.  ::sigh:: They expect so little of us.

not exactly the same, but I experienced the same thing in regards to my UG.  It's quite funny actually.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 03:38:20 PM
I actually overloaded a lot in undergrad annd just overloaded this past semester - still wouldn't catch me at Chicago! You can overload anywhere you go!  It's not worth the misery! :D

Nah, I'm done overloading...too much work.  Better to concentrate on a smaller amount of classes, but shorten the time in which you can take them.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 03:43:52 PM
The only way to get around it is to attend one of the T5s (or there about) imo.

Oh trust me...people make judgments about those too.  I don't, since I know people sometimes turn down the top schools for personal/monetary reasons, but I've definitely seen it happen more times than I can count.

especially when presented with a black student from one of the T5. I'm just assuming though.


Lol, being a black guy, it is very amusing to watch non-black law students'/lawyers' faces when I say where I go to school...especially if they go/went to one ranked lower.  ::sigh:: They expect so little of us.



Meeting DOJ lawyer:

Intern Coordinator:  This is Lacoste, one of our interns this summer.  He'll begin law school in the fall.

DOJ Lawyer:          Oh, whereabouts?  Here -- Howard?

Lacoste:             Actually, I'll be at Harvard in the fall.

DOJ Lawyer:          Oh, um, well...congrats!

Lacoste:             Mmhmm.


I also have the impression that my rising-3L intern coordinator has some issues with me that might be law school-related.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 24, 2006, 03:46:56 PM
The only way to get around it is to attend one of the T5s (or there about) imo.

Oh trust me...people make judgments about those too.  I don't, since I know people sometimes turn down the top schools for personal/monetary reasons, but I've definitely seen it happen more times than I can count.

especially when presented with a black student from one of the T5. I'm just assuming though.


Lol, being a black guy, it is very amusing to watch non-black law students'/lawyers' faces when I say where I go to school...especially if they go/went to one ranked lower.  ::sigh:: They expect so little of us.



Meeting DOJ lawyer:

Intern Coordinator:  This is Lacoste, one of our interns this summer.  He'll begin law school in the fall.

DOJ Lawyer:          Oh, whereabouts?  Here -- Howard?

Lacoste:             Actually, I'll be at Harvard in the fall.

DOJ Lawyer:          Oh, um, well...congrats!

Lacoste:             Mmhmm.


I also have the impression that my rising-3L intern coordinator has some issues with me that might be law school-related.

True.

I'm still confused as to why your intern coordinator is a law student.  That's some bullcrap.  I was not a huge fan of DOJ when I interned there, which I think was due to some Bush-administration lethargy, but at least we had attorneys for supervisors :(
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 03:48:30 PM
ok, i know that i'm less happy than most. But, if you're talking to black students and said black students are not republican i find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have anything negative to say at all. I think the thing is that most uva black students see bringing in other black students as a serious obligation b/c we've seen what happened when the Latino students stopped concentrating on recruitment and now there are like 3 Latino students at the law school total. (thats my estimate--not published stats or anything) and that doesn't mean people are unhappy--it just means that there are things that make the environment uncomfortable for black students at times. so take it for what its worth...a random post on a msg. board or whatever.


Outside of Stanford and Berkeley (not even, really) you don't see large concentrations of Latinos at any top law school (save for HLS, and that's just cuz we got 550 kids per class).  I couldn't find any Latinos to reach out to when deciding where to attend...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 24, 2006, 03:50:24 PM
Meeting DOJ lawyer:

Intern Coordinator:  This is Lacoste, one of our interns this summer.  He'll begin law school in the fall.

DOJ Lawyer:          Oh, whereabouts?  Here -- Howard?

Lacoste:             Actually, I'll be at Harvard in the fall.

DOJ Lawyer:          Oh, um, well...congrats!

Lacoste:             Mmhmm.


I also have the impression that my rising-3L intern coordinator has some issues with me that might be law school-related.

I love it!

One of my favorite things is to see white folks' faces when they learn I'm better than them.

It might be my purpose in life.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on July 24, 2006, 03:52:32 PM
ok, i know that i'm less happy than most. But, if you're talking to black students and said black students are not republican i find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have anything negative to say at all. I think the thing is that most uva black students see bringing in other black students as a serious obligation b/c we've seen what happened when the Latino students stopped concentrating on recruitment and now there are like 3 Latino students at the law school total. (thats my estimate--not published stats or anything) and that doesn't mean people are unhappy--it just means that there are things that make the environment uncomfortable for black students at times. so take it for what its worth...a random post on a msg. board or whatever.

As far as I know, said person is not Republican and seems to really like the school.  But...I'm not in their head and am only going by what they have said to me.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 24, 2006, 03:52:42 PM
Something has to drive us all.  For most of college I was fueled simply by my stepmother's repeated assertions that I'd never go to college.  Not only will I go, but I'll do something with the damned education!

Surprising smug white people is a joy as well.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 24, 2006, 05:00:41 PM
Surprising smug white people is a joy as well.

Lol, indeed it is 8).

Have you met Keisler yet?  Very nice guy.  Had a good convo with him the other day.  YLS alum.  Might give you a clerkship one day.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 08:22:46 AM
Surprising smug white people is a joy as well.

Lol, indeed it is 8).

Have you met Keisler yet?  Very nice guy.  Had a good convo with him the other day.  YLS alum.  Might give you a clerkship one day.


I walked past Keisler in the halls of Main Justice earlier this summer.  I'm angling for a clerkship with Gorsuch -- just confirmed to the Tenth Circuit, writer for National Review, Truman Scholar, HLS (stayed in the same dorm I'm in next year) and he knows my name!!! LOL.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 08:25:38 AM
I'm still waiting to find people that are impressed with YLS   :D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 08:26:51 AM
I'm still waiting to find people that are impressed with YLS   :D


don't hold your breath


YALELAWLAYMENSPRESTIGEPWN3D!!!!!!!!!11111111111111
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 25, 2006, 08:28:05 AM
I'm still waiting to find people that are impressed with YLS   :D

Lol.  Just wait until your world is the legal world.  People will leave prayers at your door and expect you to perform miracles.  


Not really, but almost ;).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 08:30:55 AM
I'm still waiting to find people that are impressed with YLS   :D


don't hold your breath


YALELAWLAYMENSPRESTIGEPWN3D!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

Pretty much.

Random person: What are you planning to do now?
Annabel: I'm going to law school.
Random person: Really? Where?
Annabel: Yale.
Random person: Oh, that's nice. I have a neice/cousin/brother-in-law etc. that went to.......

And then they carry on with their own little story.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 08:31:37 AM
Lol.  Just wait until your world is the legal world.  People will leave prayers at your door and expect you to perform miracles.  


Not really, but almost ;).


Actually, I can see people in the legal world not caring much either.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 25, 2006, 08:35:21 AM
Lol.  Just wait until your world is the legal world.  People will leave prayers at your door and expect you to perform miracles.  


Not really, but almost ;).


Actually, I can see people in the legal world not caring much either.

Lol, OK.  Wait and see is all I have to say.  Soon you'll be at the point where you'd rather people not ask where you go to school.

EDIT: Except smug people.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 25, 2006, 08:45:49 AM
Lol.  Just wait until your world is the legal world.  People will leave prayers at your door and expect you to perform miracles. 


Not really, but almost ;).


Actually, I can see people in the legal world not caring much either.

Lol, OK.  Wait and see is all I have to say.  Soon you'll be at the point where you'd rather people not ask where you go to school.

EDIT: Except smug people.

TITCR. Wait and see - it can be very useful, esp. for pwning self-important fellow law students...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 25, 2006, 09:19:21 AM
I'm still waiting to find people that are impressed with YLS   :D


don't hold your breath


YALELAWLAYMENSPRESTIGEPWN3D!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

Pretty much.

Random person: What are you planning to do now?
Annabel: I'm going to law school.
Random person: Really? Where?
Annabel: Yale.
Random person: Oh, that's nice. I have a neice/cousin/brother-in-law etc. that went to.......

And then they carry on with their own little story.

lol. Yesterday I was in conference with my dad and another lawyer and the guy asked about me and I told him i'd be going to law school in the fall. He proceeded to tell me about his son who is going to graduate from Duke University Law School next year and how its one of the top law schools in the country and its unmatched legal reputation and basically just bragging on his son, which I don't mind. Then he turns to me and says, but USC is a great law school too (assuming that's where I was going to go).

Needless to say, I felt like an ass for what came next.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 25, 2006, 09:21:37 AM
Needless to say, I felt like an ass for what came next.

Lol. No, no.  That's the perfect situation for name dropping.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 09:23:12 AM
lol. Yesterday I was in conference with my dad and another lawyer and the guy asked about me and I told him i'd be going to law school in the fall. He proceeded to tell me about his son who is going to graduate from Duke University Law School next year and how its one of the top law schools in the country and its unmatched legal reputation and basically just bragging on his son, which I don't mind. Then he turns to me and says, but USC is a great law school too (assuming that's where I was going to go).

Needless to say, I felt like an ass for what came next.

 :D

Priceless.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: pikey on July 25, 2006, 09:31:55 AM

lol. Yesterday I was in conference with my dad and another lawyer and the guy asked about me and I told him i'd be going to law school in the fall. He proceeded to tell me about his son who is going to graduate from Duke University Law School next year and how its one of the top law schools in the country and its unmatched legal reputation and basically just bragging on his son, which I don't mind. Then he turns to me and says, but USC is a great law school too (assuming that's where I was going to go).

Needless to say, I felt like an ass for what came next.

I would have loved to have seen his face.   ;)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on July 25, 2006, 09:40:33 AM
I'm still waiting to find people that are impressed with YLS   :D


don't hold your breath


YALELAWLAYMENSPRESTIGEPWN3D!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

Pretty much.

Random person: What are you planning to do now?
Annabel: I'm going to law school.
Random person: Really? Where?
Annabel: Yale.
Random person: Oh, that's nice. I have a neice/cousin/brother-in-law etc. that went to.......

And then they carry on with their own little story.

lol. Yesterday I was in conference with my dad and another lawyer and the guy asked about me and I told him i'd be going to law school in the fall. He proceeded to tell me about his son who is going to graduate from Duke University Law School next year and how its one of the top law schools in the country and its unmatched legal reputation and basically just bragging on his son, which I don't mind. Then he turns to me and says, but USC is a great law school too (assuming that's where I was going to go).

Needless to say, I felt like an ass for what came next.

lmao. that's perfect.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 25, 2006, 09:49:07 AM
Needless to say, I felt like an ass for what came next.

Well, how did you say it and what was his reaction?

Also, was he white?
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 25, 2006, 10:28:56 AM
Needless to say, I felt like an ass for what came next.

Well, how did you say it and what was his reaction?

Also, was he white?

Yeah he is white.

Bond: Well, actually, I'm going to Yale in the fall.
Attorney: In New Haven?
Bond: (*thinking* Nah, fool, in Alaska)....yes
Attorney: Well, that's very impressive. Let me shake your hand.
Dad: He has his mom's brains
*laughter*
Attorney: good luck at Yale. You know, if you ever want to talk to my son about law school, let me know
Bond: (*thinking* I wonder if the offer would still be good if I was going to USC) Sure. That sounds great. I'll contact you; my dad has the number, right?
Attorney: absolutely
Dad: (*changes the subject*.)

that's roughly how I remembered it going down. Real nice guy and I didn't think he was a bad dude. It was just kinda funny how at one moment there was this air of superiority about him and the next minute it was deflated. You had to be there to see the facial expressions and tone to fully understand.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 25, 2006, 10:43:23 AM
It was just kinda funny how at one moment there was this air of superiority about him and the next minute it was deflated. You had to be there to see the facial expressions and tone to fully understand.

I would have been ecstatic.  Right after "making life better for my people", that is possibly the best reason to ever do anything.  Just to see the steam of hubris escaping through every orifice of The Man's face when he gets URBELOWMYBLACKASSPWN3D.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 25, 2006, 10:59:16 AM
It was just kinda funny how at one moment there was this air of superiority about him and the next minute it was deflated. You had to be there to see the facial expressions and tone to fully understand.

I would have been ecstatic.  Right after "making life better for my people", that is possibly the best reason to ever do anything.  Just to see the steam of hubris escaping through every orifice of The Man's face when he gets URBELOWMYBLACKASSPWN3D.


LMAO! Yeah, man. I have to admit, it felt good.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 11:01:11 AM
Tell me why today's DOJ Intern Lecture with the FBI Director devolved into a toolfest.  Every question from the crowd was prefaced with unsolicited namedropping.

Q1:  I'm so-and-so and I go to Stanford Law...
2:   I'm so-and-so, I go to Princeton...
3:   I have a two-part question -- oh, and I'm a rising 3L at UVa...
4:   I go to Stanford Law and my question is on...

I kid you not.  You might as well have entered the twilight zone.  Every questioner felt the need to out-prestige the last.  It was amusing and sad at the same time.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 11:04:50 AM
Tell me why today's DOJ Intern Lecture with the FBI Director devolved into a toolfest.  Every question from the crowd was prefaced with unsolicited namedropping.

Q1:  I'm so-and-so and I go to Stanford Law...
2:   I'm so-and-so, I go to Princeton...
3:   I have a two-part question -- oh, and I'm a rising 3L at UVa...
4:   I go to Stanford Law and my question is on...

I kid you not.  You might as well have entered the twilight zone.  Every questioner felt the need to out-prestige the last.  It was amusing and sad at the same time.


That's not name dropping. That's what you're supposed to do.

Always introduce yourself with your name, school and year. That way, when they come across your resume, they'll be able to connect a face (and hopefully a good impression) with your name.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 25, 2006, 11:05:46 AM
Tell me why today's DOJ Intern Lecture with the FBI Director devolved into a toolfest.  Every question from the crowd was prefaced with unsolicited namedropping.

Q1:  I'm so-and-so and I go to Stanford Law...
2:   I'm so-and-so, I go to Princeton...
3:   I have a two-part question -- oh, and I'm a rising 3L at UVa...
4:   I go to Stanford Law and my question is on...

I kid you not.  You might as well have entered the twilight zone.  Every questioner felt the need to out-prestige the last.  It was amusing and sad at the same time.


You should do it man. Just be like "I'm lacoste, Harvard."
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 25, 2006, 11:10:16 AM
To the poster who posted a response to me.  The great altruism of The Man brought most of my ancestors here as slaves.  He then systematically discriminated against them and oppressed them, kept them poor and uneducated.

I wouldn't have gotten into HLS if I weren't black.

Guess what?  I don't care.  I am black.

I could easily argue 80% of the problems I've faced in life I wouldn't have had if I weren't black as well.

BTW, I'd be talking the same sh*t even if I weren't going to HLS or law school at all.  AA didn't get me into Princeton.  The Man didn't make me intelligent.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 11:13:30 AM
Tell me why today's DOJ Intern Lecture with the FBI Director devolved into a toolfest.  Every question from the crowd was prefaced with unsolicited namedropping.

Q1:  I'm so-and-so and I go to Stanford Law...
2:   I'm so-and-so, I go to Princeton...
3:   I have a two-part question -- oh, and I'm a rising 3L at UVa...
4:   I go to Stanford Law and my question is on...

I kid you not.  You might as well have entered the twilight zone.  Every questioner felt the need to out-prestige the last.  It was amusing and sad at the same time.


That's not name dropping. That's what you're supposed to do.

Always introduce yourself with your name, school and year. That way, when they come across your resume, they'll be able to connect a face (and hopefully a good impression) with your name.


This is the second event like this I've attended.  At the first, we only spoke our name and agency of DOJ.  In this one, people skipped agency and went straight to school.  I guess you had to be there.  The people I was with generally agreed it was rather pretentious of the questioners.  Or I could be being a bit sensitive about it.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 11:14:20 AM
To the poster who posted a response to me.  The great altruism of The Man brought most of my ancestors here as slaves.  He then systematically discriminated against them and oppressed them, kept them poor and uneducated.


TI,OC,TCR.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 11:16:34 AM
This is the second event like this I've attended.  At the first, we only spoke our name and agency of DOJ.  In this one, people skipped agency and went straight to school.  I guess you had to be there.  The people I was with generally agreed it was rather pretentious of the questioners.  Or I could be being a bit sensitive about it.


At my college, that was a standard introduction:

Hello, my name is ______ and I'm a ______ at _______ University.

And we had to repeat it every time we introduced ourselves. It's just good marketing. You want people to remember you.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 11:18:06 AM
This is the second event like this I've attended.  At the first, we only spoke our name and agency of DOJ.  In this one, people skipped agency and went straight to school.  I guess you had to be there.  The people I was with generally agreed it was rather pretentious of the questioners.  Or I could be being a bit sensitive about it.


At my college, that was a standard introduction:

Hello, my name is ______ and I'm a ______ at _______ University.

And we had to repeat it every time we introduced ourselves. It's just good marketing. You want people to remember you.



I did the same thing in college and do the same thing now.  But in an event such as this -- where you are all working for various divisions within a Department -- the proper introduction, imo, reveals where you work, not where you go to school (almost irrelevant).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Lsassy on July 25, 2006, 11:18:28 AM
Lacoste,

I agree with you on that one.  It sounds pretentious especially when it's uncalled.  It's like people who feel the need to inform everyone that they are wearing Manolo Blahniks.  Ughhh, so ghetto!
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: cui bono? on July 25, 2006, 11:19:53 AM
Lacoste,

I agree with you on that one.  It sounds pretentious especially when it's uncalled.  It's like people who feel the need to inform everyone that they are wearing Manolo Blahniks.  Ughhh, so ghetto!

Man, I couldnt agree with ya'll more!  Not only is it ghetto but it's annoying and a little bit sad!  Is that the only thing in their life that they have to be proud of? 
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 25, 2006, 11:20:12 AM
You had to be there to see the facial expressions and tone to fully understand.


Lol, nope, that's what we're talking about.  It will happen over and over again.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: A. on July 25, 2006, 11:22:03 AM
This is the second event like this I've attended.  At the first, we only spoke our name and agency of DOJ.  In this one, people skipped agency and went straight to school.  I guess you had to be there.  The people I was with generally agreed it was rather pretentious of the questioners.  Or I could be being a bit sensitive about it.


At my college, that was a standard introduction:

Hello, my name is ______ and I'm a ______ at _______ University.

And we had to repeat it every time we introduced ourselves. It's just good marketing. You want people to remember you.



I did the same thing in college and do the same thing now.  But in an event such as this -- where you are all working for various divisions within a Department -- the proper introduction, imo, reveals where you work, not where you go to school (almost irrelevant).

Yeah, at that type of event, they usually just want agency.  At smaller gatherings (e.g., brownbag lunches), it's almost standard to ask about law school.  But once someone starts, everyone else has to follow suit.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 11:23:35 AM
This is the second event like this I've attended.  At the first, we only spoke our name and agency of DOJ.  In this one, people skipped agency and went straight to school.  I guess you had to be there.  The people I was with generally agreed it was rather pretentious of the questioners.  Or I could be being a bit sensitive about it.


At my college, that was a standard introduction:

Hello, my name is ______ and I'm a ______ at _______ University.

And we had to repeat it every time we introduced ourselves. It's just good marketing. You want people to remember you.



I did the same thing in college and do the same thing now.  But in an event such as this -- where you are all working for various divisions within a Department -- the proper introduction, imo, reveals where you work, not where you go to school (almost irrelevant).

Yeah, at that type of event, they usually just want agency.  At smaller gatherings (e.g., brownbag lunches), it's almost standard to ask about law school.  But once someone starts, everyone else has to follow suit.



I haven't been able to make it to any brownbags this summer.  It would have been nice.  Perhaps next summer, if I return to DC/DOJ, I'll make it a priority to attend some.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 11:24:37 AM
I did the same thing in college and do the same thing now.  But in an event such as this -- where you are all working for various divisions within a Department -- the proper introduction, imo, reveals where you work, not where you go to school (almost irrelevant).


Ahhh, I see what you're saying.

Well that introduction is almost second nature to me. So if I blurt it out sometime don't think I'm a JACKA$$   ;)
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: John Galt on July 25, 2006, 11:26:01 AM
I did the same thing in college and do the same thing now.  But in an event such as this -- where you are all working for various divisions within a Department -- the proper introduction, imo, reveals where you work, not where you go to school (almost irrelevant).


Ahhh, I see what you're saying.

Well that introduction is almost second nature to me. So if I blurt it out sometime don't think I'm a JACKA$$   ;)

Well it doesn't really sound pretentious when you're like I'm a IB major from Howard University.

It probably sounds pretentious if you're like "I'm a 1L at THE Yale Law School" without cause.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: John Galt on July 25, 2006, 11:26:36 AM
To the poster who posted a response to me.  The great altruism of The Man brought most of my ancestors here as slaves.  He then systematically discriminated against them and oppressed them, kept them poor and uneducated.

I wouldn't have gotten into HLS if I weren't black.

Guess what?  I don't care.  I am black.

I could easily argue 80% of the problems I've faced in life I wouldn't have had if I weren't black as well.

BTW, I'd be talking the same sh*t even if I weren't going to HLS or law school at all.  AA didn't get me into Princeton.  The Man didn't make me intelligent.

we've almost always been on the same page, Jay. This is no different.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 11:27:54 AM
Suddenly I'm jealous of lacoste's useful internship @ the DOJ...you're already making connections and networking.

Maybe I should have done something more relevant this summer... :-\
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 11:29:07 AM
Suddenly I'm jealous of lacoste's useful internship @ the DOJ...you're already making connections and networking.

Maybe I should have done something more relevant this summer... :-\



You won't need the connections and networking.  You go to THE Yale Law School!  (I'm for real though, I'm sure your network through school will be immensely helpful).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 11:29:56 AM
Well it doesn't really sound pretentious when you're like I'm a IB major from Howard University.

It probably sounds pretentious if you're like "I'm a 1L at THE Yale Law School" without cause.


Oh $hit...maybe I shouldn't have gotten Yale Law School tattooed on my chest....
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: jnc18 on July 25, 2006, 11:30:28 AM
To the poster who posted a response to me.  The great altruism of The Man brought most of my ancestors here as slaves.  He then systematically discriminated against them and oppressed them, kept them poor and uneducated.

I wouldn't have gotten into HLS if I weren't black.

Guess what?  I don't care.  I am black.

I could easily argue 80% of the problems I've faced in life I wouldn't have had if I weren't black as well.

BTW, I'd be talking the same sh*t even if I weren't going to HLS or law school at all.  AA didn't get me into Princeton.  The Man didn't make me intelligent.

we've almost always been on the same page, Jay. This is no different.

Yeah, the person i was responded to deleted his/her post.  Basically telling me about the altruism of The Man.

BTW, I was being half-facetious (which means I was half-serious as well).
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 11:30:42 AM
Well it doesn't really sound pretentious when you're like I'm a IB major from Howard University.

It probably sounds pretentious if you're like "I'm a 1L at THE Yale Law School" without cause.


Oh $hit...maybe I shouldn't have gotten Yale Law School tattooed on my chest....


I put the Harvard Law tattoo on my ass so people could kiss it.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 11:32:02 AM
You won't need the connections and networking.  You go to THE Yale Law School!  (I'm for real though, I'm sure your network through school will be immensely helpful).


Just in case, you're not trying to do corporate law are you??

 ;D
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: John Galt on July 25, 2006, 11:32:56 AM
Well it doesn't really sound pretentious when you're like I'm a IB major from Howard University.

It probably sounds pretentious if you're like "I'm a 1L at THE Yale Law School" without cause.


Oh $hit...maybe I shouldn't have gotten Yale Law School tattooed on my chest....

I put the Harvard Law tattoo on my ass so people could kiss it.

HAHAHAHA...
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: 2Lacoste on July 25, 2006, 11:33:17 AM
You won't need the connections and networking.  You go to THE Yale Law School!  (I'm for real though, I'm sure your network through school will be immensely helpful).


Just in case, you're not trying to do corporate law are you??

 ;D



I waver on the subject.  I may do a short stint to pay off loans/make some dough.  But it'd be just that -- a short stint.  Definitely not a final destination.
Title: Re: The Official BLSD "What Are My Chances?/Where Should I Apply?" Thread
Post by: Nemesis on July 25, 2006, 11:34:11 AM

I waver on the subject.  I may do a short stint to pay off loans/make some dough.  But it'd be just that -- a short stint.  Definitely not a final destination.

Oh no...competition  ;)