Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 15, 2005, 09:38:54 AM

Title: 1L's & Current Black Law Students
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 15, 2005, 09:38:54 AM
Since weez free now, you know it wouldn't be proper unless the 1L's have their own thread to b!tch about that first year as a Black Law Student, b/c you know we have a SLIGHTLY different day to day then the rest of the mainstream.  Especially in law school.

Let me start it off...

CIV PRO SUCKS!


Thank you.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 15, 2005, 01:56:25 PM
You're a bonafide nutcase.

But honestly, they way you go on about Civ Pro is scaring the *&^% outta me.

I was Contracts female dog until I got my mid-term grade back. Now if I put another 50% into it for a total of 100% I think I'm in pretty good standing.

Question for ya'll, how do you respond when people ask you what you got? Today was the first day someone actually had the audacity to ask me. I don't get all up in others business. But I told her, however, we have such a small community I know by 5pm today most if not all the class will know. And it wasn't a bad grade at all, I just feel it's not anyone's business. Only one other person volunteered their grade to me, but I haven't told anyone that knows them. Oh well  ::).......
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: taterstol on February 15, 2005, 02:32:13 PM
I've only shared my grades with one pretty close friend that I study a lot with, and that was only because it was pretty clear that we both did well. No one has outright asked "what did you get?" but people have done it in slightly subtler ways. My standard response is "i'm happy" or "i don't really discuss grades." I think that the people that have been posturing lately did not do so well. Who feels the need to posture if you actually did well?

Oh, and property is far and away the hardest class. Holy crap.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 15, 2005, 02:39:44 PM
I've only shared my grades with one pretty close friend that I study a lot with, and that was only because it was pretty clear that we both did well. No one has outright asked "what did you get?" but people have done it in slightly subtler ways. My standard response is "i'm happy" or "i don't really discuss grades." I think that the people that have been posturing lately did not do so well. Who feels the need to posture if you actually did well?

Oh, and property is far and away the hardest class. Holy crap.

Thanks  :) I thought it was pretty rude. Like you, I've been mainly saying "i'm happy" 'cuz I am. Property is my best class  :D, don't tell me your easiest is Contracts.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 15, 2005, 04:20:34 PM
Why are you 1L's posting this?!?!  Are you trying to scare us sh!tless before we even decide what schools we're going to?


(Just kidding!  Thanks for the head's up.  I'll know what classes to pay attention in now.)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: taterstol on February 15, 2005, 04:41:45 PM
I've only shared my grades with one pretty close friend that I study a lot with, and that was only because it was pretty clear that we both did well. No one has outright asked "what did you get?" but people have done it in slightly subtler ways. My standard response is "i'm happy" or "i don't really discuss grades." I think that the people that have been posturing lately did not do so well. Who feels the need to posture if you actually did well?

Oh, and property is far and away the hardest class. Holy crap.

Thanks  :) I thought it was pretty rude. Like you, I've been mainly saying "i'm happy" 'cuz I am. Property is my best class  :D, don't tell me your easiest is Contracts.

Haha... actually Contracts was my easiest class. Property is bugging me because it's soooooo formalistic. I generally prefer keeping it real over being unnecessarily formalistic, which was what I liked about contracts. Regardless of the technical validity of things you might contract for, a judge could just as easily say "yeah, but this is crap. so no."
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 16, 2005, 12:58:47 AM
Taterstol - welcome fellow 1L.  What school are you hailing from?

Yeah, the whole grades thing is pretty top secret at the school.  You don't wanna talk in front of the wrong person b/c you might be offending somebody who got a lower grade than you.  Right now, that's the least of my problems.  I'm just trying to stay motivated. 

I've never studied that hard in my life as I did for that first semester or law school.  I surpised myself b/c I didn't think I was capable of putting in all those hours and pushing it to the limit that many times, closing the library down pretty much every night, etc. 

NOW...its a different story.  I feel like some kinda war vet who's come back to the states. But I had a talk with LadyDay the other day and she gave me the speach so I've been getting myself together.


As far as Property...yeah.  That joker is the truth ain't it?  LOL  You must be talkin about the future interests, O to A then to C for life, so long as C does XYZ but if not, then to D and his remainder.  There doesn't seem to be anything simple about the fee simple.   LadyDay did you ever get that damn Rupe Agains Perpetuities down?   ;D  I know you were complaining about that dam thing for brief minute.

My think with Contracts is that you finish the course, and you're still like, so what is a Contract?  Taterstol you hit it on the head, the judge can still, at the end of the day, decide to enforce the agreement or decide to not enforce the agreement.  Contracts is nothing more than promises that courts will recognize.  If they would just tell you that on the first day, then everything would be alright. 

If you hate formalistic classes then you must HATE Civ Pro.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 16, 2005, 01:16:40 AM
oh yeah, and civ pro sucks

thank you
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 16, 2005, 06:30:39 PM
LadyDay did you ever get that damn Rupe Agains Perpetuities down?   ;D  I know you were complaining about that dam thing for brief minute.


Yeah, the night before the damn mid-term, at least I think so  :-\ if my grade is any reflection  ;). But don't ask me what the hell it means now, Property has moved to the real *&^% now, tenants and crap.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Made4law on February 16, 2005, 06:31:13 PM
Hate to hijack but since I have your brillant minds and experience. Prep or Chill out for the summer. I can't really chill but I have been reading LS Confidential and 1L. Anything you guys know now you wish you had known last year, Six months or so b4 school.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Made4law on February 16, 2005, 06:33:20 PM
Hate to hijack but since I have your brillant minds and experience. Prep or Chill out for the summer. I can't really chill but I have been reading LS Confidential and 1L. Anything you guys know now you wish you had known last year, Six months or so b4 school.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: BigTex on February 16, 2005, 06:37:43 PM
tag
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 16, 2005, 06:49:19 PM
Hate to hijack but since I have your brillant minds and experience. Prep or Chill out for the summer. I can't really chill but I have been reading LS Confidential and 1L. Anything you guys know now you wish you had known last year, Six months or so b4 school.

Two good books. I also recommend Planet Law School II, others may disagree, but I think he speaks the truth, but ignore the part where he talks about a detailed and strick preparation plan before LS. I always advise to just chill, life as you know it now will never be the same after LS. And you'll have enough to read! Plus, even if you were to read Examples and Explanations, sometimes your professor won't go over an entire section, look at the past couple of posts, Sands' professor went over RAP for about 5 minutes and it don't believe it was even on his final. My professor took 1 1/2 classes to go over it, and you best believe it was on the mid-term, how pissed will you be if you read before LS but 50% of what you just read won't be relevant to your particular professor. That's time you could be spending with your family, cuz once you start, your kids ain't gonna see much of daddy for 9 months excluding holidays.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 16, 2005, 06:52:28 PM
Basically, don't waste your time preparing. Lighter books like the ones you're reading and PLSII are good. I also advise this book called "Thinking Like a Lawyer" by Vandevelde, it's really just bare bones, but at least you will be a little familiar with concepts and thinks won't be so cloudy once you start school. I hope that helps (sincerely)  ;)
Title: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 16, 2005, 09:09:08 PM
Hate to hijack but since I have your brillant minds and experience. Prep or Chill out for the summer. I can't really chill but I have been reading LS Confidential and 1L. Anything you guys know now you wish you had known last year, Six months or so b4 school.

No this is what the board is for, to talk (or complain) about 1st year issues.

Ditto what LadyDay said.  Some idiots (mainly people who are planning on going to law school) really think that you should prepare BEFORE your 1st year.  Wrong.  I'll tell you why in a minute.

The only preparation you should be doing before your first year is general reading.  Books like Planet Law School give a good idea of what it is like to be in law school.  Of course, nothing prepares you for the experience like the experience itself, but at least you won't be walking in blind.

Now, the top 5 reasons on why it is a bad idea to "prepare" or study the law before you go to law school.


#5. You just flat out do not know what to look for. Even if you were to pick up an Examples & Explanations and read it cover to cover (which you won't even need to do once you get in law school) all the legal terms of art will fly past you b/c you've never heard of most of them, perhaps any of them.  You don't know what the difference is between Pleading, Impleading, Interpleading or Intervention and unless mom or dad are lawyers with a lot of free time, its just best to wait until you see these concepts within the context of actual cases.

#4. You need to have as much fun as you can BEFORE law school.    1st year is the hardest year of law school.  That being said, 1st semester is the hardest semester of law school.  You will learn the importance of Time.  It will be more valuable to you than you ever thought possible.  You will pass up more invitations to parties, send more phone calls to voicemail, and turn down more dates with supermodels than you ever thought possible. A social life is still possible during your first year, but when I say social life I mean you get to go out a couple times per month.  This is of course when you figure out that you just have to stop what you are doing and take a break, because there are not enough hours in the space-time continuum to finish the amount of reading that is about to be thrown at you in one semester.

#3.  You need as much MONEY as you can get your hands on before law school.    If mommy and daddy pay for everything, then discard this reason.  If you're not a silver spoon kid, pay special attention to this caveat.  For you working people who will be leaving a career, this is especially important.  You will be living off of one month's take home for 9 months straight. Start saving now.

#2.  You don't want to have to UNLEARN legal conepts.  Without the guidance of a law professor, the true meaning of many legal concepts is difficult if not impossible to ascertain.  Going back to reason #5, a particular concept itself may not be difficult to understand, but you may be learning it incorrectly.  For example, you might read a concept book that tells you about property obligations for tenants. It will more than likely tell you that a property owner is liable for all Invitees that are injured on his icy sidewalk but not for people who are Liscensees.  And then you carry this "understanding" with you into law school, where you may or may not discover before the exam that what you read during the summer before your first year USED to be absolutely true, however over the development of case law during the past 50 years, courts have done away with the distinction of liscensee/invitee and just hold land owners liable for anybody who is not a trespasser.  But the concept book is not going to tell you that because they are just trying to list all the basic concepts in as short amount of space as possible.

#1.  Law School is all about what your Professor wants. In the end, it is your professor who determines your grade.  It is the professor who separates the A's from the B's.  It is the professor who you have to please, and it is the professor who you have to listen to.  You can know ever law and legal concept ever created in the US, but if you do not know the type of analysis your professor is looking for, then you're f*cked.  This is also why 4.0 students are shocked when 1st year grades are posted b/c many of them get their first B or C ever in their entire academic lives in law school.  NOT because it is any reflection of their intelligence as a student.  Its because they didn't provide the analysis specific to thier professor.  I had 4 finals last semester from 4 different professors with 4 different styles.  My property professor just wanted to see both sides of each issue argued. She didn't want an answer b/c she feels there are no answers in the Law, just arguments. My torts professor wanted a strong analysis for one side, discounting the claims that the other side might make, with a definite answer at the end.  Now imagine if you did the exact same writing style for all of your professors.  You'd get a report card that looks like the scrolling ticker tape on the stock market.

Since you have no idea who your professors are, or more importantly, what areas they want to focus on and how they want their exams written, it is damn near pointless to spend the time during your summer trying to prepare for anything.  LadyDay's property professor harped on the Rules Against Perpetuities for 2 classes, my professor talked about that mess for 2 minutes and moved on.  Its all subjective.

Our advice on the summer before 1L...  Make lots of money, party till 3 am every night, have lots of sex, drink lots of alcohol, take a vacation in Hawaii and go watch the sunset or something like that.  Don't be one of these dillusioned cats who thinks that learning how to brief a case in June is going to make a damn bit of difference come August.

Yo
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 16, 2005, 09:26:48 PM
Good insight.  Thanks for the tips, Ladyday and Sands.

Ladyday, what school are you in right now?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: BigTex on February 16, 2005, 10:14:43 PM
I must admit to being confused by:

1. the ringing endorsements of PLS2.
and
2. the advice to not prep before law school.

I could understand one position or the other, but holding both jointly is confusing.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 16, 2005, 10:29:37 PM
I must admit to being confused by:

1. the ringing endorsements of PLS2.
and
2. the advice to not prep before law school.

I could understand one position or the other, but holding both jointly is confusing.

Boy, have u taken a look at that book? That female dog is like One million pages  ;) and he/she devotes a tiny percentage of that to saying to prep before. There's a lot of valuable info in the book despite the "prepping" advice. But I'm just f-ing witcha, I understand your confusion.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 16, 2005, 10:35:41 PM
I must admit to being confused by:

1. the ringing endorsements of PLS2.
and
2. the advice to not prep before law school.

I could understand one position or the other, but holding both jointly is confusing.

Enjoy your last days of freedom. Nothing that you've done in your past will fully prepare you for what you're about to endure.

I guarantee you by October you will be ready to pull your hair out strand by strand. You'll wonder where the time has gone. You'll think back for a brief second about what you were doing the yr prior.Then it will hit you that you've segued away from your purpose.

You'll call your friends back home to express your pain and they won't understand because they haven't been through the struggle. Winter break you'll rest, but not for long because in a few weeks law school hell will begin again.

But it will get better your 2L. Hold on to that and you'll make it through...

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 16, 2005, 10:39:23 PM
Right right.  I guess a clarification is in order.  When we say prepare for law school, we're talking about picking up an Examples & Explanations or Emanuels or something like that and trying to learn legal concepts or how to brief a case.  This can get you into trouble.

Planet Law School is a book about what its like in law school.  That's fine.

Since you guys are going to be like we were when we were in your shoes and try to perpare anyway, let me at least advise that you only look at Torts b/c it applies to most of the other classes generally.  Leave Property and Contracts and the rest alone.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 16, 2005, 10:52:54 PM
dont even get me started on the rule against perpetuities....what was it about an after-born-child? fee simple subject to condition WHAT??? THANK GOD i dont have to worry about that again until the bar. property was def. the worst subject first semester, and the only reason being the damn R.A.P. You will not feel totally law-school-lawyerly-like until you have felt the wrath of the R-TO-THA-IZZ-A-TO-THA-MOTHAF'N-P. yeah civ pro sucks some major donkey genetelia(sp?). contracts wasn't that bad, torts is by far the easiest. this second semester - DO NOT EVEN GET ME GOING ON CONSTITUTIONAL LAW!!!!!!!!! damn class gives like 3 hours a night, supreme court justices always feel the need to chime in with like 3 concurring opinions and ALWAYS ALWAYS 4 dissenting opinions. i can handle property II, contracts II, and criminal, but toss a night of con law reading in, and then sprinkle a nice persuasive memo on top of that. DAAAAAAYUM!!!!!! i thought first semester was kickin like karate - boy was i wrong.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Made4law on February 17, 2005, 12:58:32 AM
Thanks for the detailed info. this just reaffirms what I was thinking anyway. I am going to try to use some of the studying and note taking advice that I pick up from LS confidential and I will grab PSII off of Amazon.  I have a very hectic summer planned and this has eased my mind a bit.  Luckily I'm selling my house and moving to a much cheaper state, I don't have very much undergrad debt and am already in the saving conserving mode. The fact that I'm coming from a nontrad position is actually helping me.  I feel like one of those college ball players and just got drafted to the pro's I don't care if I go number 1, I just wanna be in the show. Because once training camp starts (school, after the bar, court etc.) we are all pretty much on equal footing.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 17, 2005, 07:22:42 AM
dont even get me started on the rule against perpetuities....what was it about an after-born-child? fee simple subject to condition WHAT??? THANK GOD i dont have to worry about that again until the bar. property was def. the worst subject first semester, and the only reason being the damn R.A.P. You will not feel totally law-school-lawyerly-like until you have felt the wrath of the R-TO-THA-IZZ-A-TO-THA-MOTHAF'N-P. yeah civ pro sucks some major donkey genetelia(sp?). contracts wasn't that bad, torts is by far the easiest. this second semester - DO NOT EVEN GET ME GOING ON CONSTITUTIONAL LAW!!!!!!!!! damn class gives like 3 hours a night, supreme court justices always feel the need to chime in with like 3 concurring opinions and ALWAYS ALWAYS 4 dissenting opinions. i can handle property II, contracts II, and criminal, but toss a night of con law reading in, and then sprinkle a nice persuasive memo on top of that. DAAAAAAYUM!!!!!! i thought first semester was kickin like karate - boy was i wrong.


Bubbazzz - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DOUBT!!!!!!!  *Dap*

I'm sitting in Con Law right now.  Supreme Court Justices can talk.  Tell me those maf*ckas don't know they're on stage!  15 page dissenting opinions.  Did Justice Harlan EVER write a majority opinion?  In life?  That cat ALWAYS be on the dissenting side to every issue.  Just disagreeign to be disagreeing for no damn reason. I like how he was on the dissent in Plessy v. Furguson and then goes on to say that the white race is the clearly the master race.  ;D That just lets you know he just wants to disagree for no reason; he didn't even believe the stuff he was spouting off about equality.

Property wasn't so bad, ya'll.  It was just those damn future interests.  That could be a whole class on its own.  I personally hated Contracts.

I started off hatig Civ Pro, but I'm starting to see the light.  This just might be the best class in law school. Its all rules.  None of that wishy washy foreseeability bullsh!t.  Rule 12(b)(6) Biiiiatch now get to steppin and get the f*ck outa my courtroom!!!


Made4Law - that's right, once you get into the league its all aobut your effort and what you put in.

Title: Do we REALLY wanna do this?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 17, 2005, 09:09:23 AM
52 Vand. L. Rev. 871

Dear Law Student:
 I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that the profession that you are about to enter is one of the most unhappy and unhealthy on the face of the earth--and, in the view of many, one of the most unethical. The good news is that you can join this profession and still be happy, healthy, and ethical. I am writing to tell you how.

TEXT:
 [*872] 
 I. The Well-Being of Lawyers
 Lawyers play an enormously important role in our society.   n1 "It is the lawyers who run our civilization for us--our governments, our business, our private lives."   n2 Thus you might expect that a lot of people would be concerned about the physical and mental health of lawyers.  [*873]  You would be wrong.   n3 Contrary to the old joke,   n4 scientists have not replaced laboratory rats with lawyers, and medical literature has little to say about the well-being of attorneys. At the same time, many law professors--at least those teaching at the fifty or so schools that consider themselves to be in the "Top Twenty"--do not care much about lawyers. Increasingly, faculties of elite schools and aspiring elite schools consist of professors who have not practiced law,   n5 who have little interest in teaching students to practice law,   n6 and who pay scant attention to the work of practicing lawyers.   n7 Even law professors like me--law professors who practiced law for several years, who love teaching, and who are intensely interested in the work of lawyers--often do not have the training or resources to conduct empirical research about the legal profession.   n8 As a result, legal scholarship also has little to say about the well-being of attorneys.   n9
 If one looks hard enough, though, one can scratch up some information about the health and happiness of attorneys. And this information--although rather sparse and, in some cases, of limited value--strongly suggests that lawyers are in remarkably poor health and quite unhappy.   [*874] 
 A. Lawyers' Poor Health
 1. Depression
 Lawyers seem to be among the most depressed people in America. In 1990, researchers affiliated with Johns Hopkins University studied the prevalence of major depressive disorder ("MDD") across 104 occupations.   n10 They discovered that, although only about 3% to 5% of the general population suffers from MDD,   n11 the prevalence of MDD exceeds 10% in five occupations: data-entry keyers, computer equipment operators, typists, pre-kindergarten and special education teachers, and lawyers.   n12 When the results were adjusted for age, gender, education, and race/ethnic background to determine to what extent those in each occupation were more depressed than others who shared their most important sociodemographic traits,   n13 only three occupations were discovered to have statistically significant elevations of MDD: lawyers, pre-kindergarten and special education teachers, and secretaries. Lawyers topped the list, suffering from MDD at a rate 3.6 times higher than non-lawyers who shared their key sociodemographic traits.   n14 The researchers did not know whether lawyers were depressed because "persons at high risk for major depressive disorder" are attracted to the legal profession or because practicing law "causes or precipitates depression."   n15 They just knew that, whatever the reason, lawyers were depressed.   n16
 Other studies have produced similar results. A study of Washington lawyers found that "compared with the 3 to 9 percent of individuals in Western industrialized countries who suffer from depression, 19 percent of . . . Washington lawyers suffered from statistically  [*875]  significant elevated levels of depression."   n17 A study of law students and practicing lawyers in Arizona discovered that when students enter law school, they suffer from depression at approximately the same rate as the general population.   n18 However, by the spring of the first year of law school, 32% of law students suffer from depression, and by the spring of the third year of law school, the figure escalates to an astonishing 40%.   n19 Two years after graduation, the rate of depression falls, but only to 17%, or roughly double the level of the general population.   n20
 Another study, making use of the data generated by the Washington and Arizona studies, reported that while "the base rate of any affective disorder (which includes depression) is 8.5% for males and 14.1% for females, . . . the percentage of male lawyers . . . scoring above the clinical cutoff on the measure of depression is nearly 21% and for female lawyers 16%."   n21 And finally, a study of North Carolina lawyers found that almost 37% reported being depressed and 42% lonely during the previous few weeks,   n22 and that 24% reported suffering symptoms of depression (such as appetite loss, insomnia, suicidal ideation, and extreme lethargy) at least three times per month during the previous year.   n23  [*876] 
 2. Anxiety and Other Mental Illness
 Depression is not the only emotional impairment that seems to be more prevalent among lawyers than among the general population. The Arizona study also found elevated rates of anxiety, hostility, and paranoia among law students and lawyers.   n24 Over 25% of North Carolina lawyers reported that they had experienced physical symptoms of extreme anxiety (including trembling hands, racing hearts, clammy hands, and faintness) at least three times per month during the past year.   n25 And the Washington study found indicia of anxiety, social alienation and isolation, obsessive-compulsiveness, paranoid ideation, interpersonal sensitivity, phobic anxiety, and hostility in "alarming" rates among lawyers--rates many times the national norms.   n26 For example:
 The base rate [in the general population] for obsessive-compulsiveness is 1.42%, yet nearly 21% of the male lawyers and 15% of the female lawyers in the study score above the clinical cutoff on the measure of obsessivecompulsiveness. The same pattern exists in regard to generalized anxiety disorder where the base rate is 4%, while 30% of the male lawyers and nearly 20% of the female lawyers in the study report scores above the clinical cutoff on the measure of anxiety.   n27
 Needless to say, these studies "give[ ] substantial indication of a profession operating at extremely high levels of psychological distress."   n28
Title: Do we REALLY wanna do this?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 17, 2005, 09:10:11 AM
 3. Alcoholism and Drug Abuse
 Lawyers appear to be prodigious drinkers. The North Carolina study reported that almost 17% of lawyers admitted to drinking three to five alcoholic beverages every day.   n29 One researcher conservatively estimated that 15% of lawyers are alcoholics.   n30 The study of Washington lawyers found that 18% were "problem drinkers," a percentage "almost twice the approximately 10 percent alcohol abuse and/or dependency prevalence rates estimated for adults in the United States."   n31 Moreover, the Washington study "revealed an astounding  [*877]  number of lawyers with a high likelihood of developing alcohol related problems."   n32
 Little is known about the frequency with which lawyers use illegal drugs, but the little that is known is not encouraging. The Washington study found that 26% of lawyers had used cocaine at least once, a rate over twice that of the general population.   n33 True, the Washington study found that only 1% of lawyers had "abused" cocaine, as compared to 3% of adults generally.   n34 But that is hardly cause for celebration. According to the Washington study, one third of lawyers in Washington suffer from depression, problem drinking, or cocaine abuse.   n35 There is no reason to believe that Washington is anomalous.   n36
 4. Divorce
 Marriage is good for people. "The research on marriage is striking. For decades, studies have shown that the married live longer and have a lower risk of a variety of physical and psychological illnesses than the unmarried."   n37 Also, those who are married report higher levels of career satisfaction than those who are single.   n38 The North Carolina study confirmed that what is true for people generally is also true for lawyers specifically: Among lawyers, "changing from single to married status directly increases happiness and satisfaction with life. Marriage also leads to greater job and career satisfaction . . . and improves health."   n39 The North Carolina study identified unmarried lawyers as one of three categories of lawyers least satisfied with their lives.   n40  [*878] 
 Likewise, divorce is bad for people, both physically and psychologically (and, for women, economically).   n41 Those who divorce die younger than either those who never marry or those who stay married.   n42 Indeed, the impact of getting divorced on life expectancy is "only slightly less harmful . . . than smoking a pack or more of cigarettes per day."   n43 Divorced people suffer from cancer, cardiovascular disease, infectious diseases, respiratory illnesses, digestive system illnesses, and other acute conditions more frequently than do single, married, or widowed people.   n44 Divorced people are far more likely to abuse alcohol or become alcoholic than those who have never been divorced.   n45 Psychologically, divorce is devastating: "Of all the social variables relating to the incidence of psychiatric disorders, or psychopathology, in the population, none appears to be more crucial than marital status."   n46 The separated and divorced suffer from psychiatric illness (such as depression and schizophrenia) far more than do the single, married, and widowed.   n47 For example, men who are divorced or separated are admitted to hospitals for treatment of psychiatric disorders twenty-one times more frequently than married men.   n48 And, not surprising, the suicide rate of those who are divorced is almost triple the rate of those who are married, and significantly higher than the rates of those who have never married or been widowed.   n49
 Although empirical research is sparse, there is some indication that the divorce rate among lawyers is higher than the divorce rate among other professionals.   n50 Felicia Baker LeClere of Notre Dame's Center for the Study of Contemporary Society compared the incidence of divorce among lawyers to the incidence of divorce among doctors, using data from the 1990 census. LeClere found that the percentage of lawyers who are divorced is higher than the percentage of doctors who are divorced and that the difference is particularly pronounced  [*879]  among women.   n51 For example, over 16% of female attorneys between the ages of thirty-five and forty-nine are divorced, as compared to 11% of female doctors in the same age range. Similarly, among ages fifty to sixty-four, over 24% of female lawyers are divorced, as compared to about 15% of female doctors.
 LeClere's findings are consistent with an earlier study of divorce rates among female attorneys. That study found that women who have completed six or more years of postsecondary education--a category that obviously includes lawyers--have a substantially higher divorce rate than women generally.   n52 The study also found that, among well educated women, the divorce rate for female lawyers was substantially higher than the divorce rates for female physicians and female professors. Specifically, the divorce rate for female lawyers was twice the divorce rate for female doctors and 25% to 40% higher than the divorce rate for women teaching in post-secondary institutions.   n53 The study also found that, after their first marriages end, female attorneys are significantly less likely to remarry than female physicians and professors.   n54
Title: Do we REALLY wanna do this?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 17, 2005, 09:13:51 AM
 II. Explaining the Poor Health and Unhappiness of Lawyers
 A. The Hours
 Why are lawyers so unhealthy and unhappy? Why do so many lawyers, in the words of Judge Laurence Silberman, "hate what the practice of law has become"?   n117 Lawyers give many reasons. They complain about the commercialization of the legal profession--about the fact that practicing law has become less of a profession and more of a business.   n118 They complain about the increased pressure to attract  [*889]  and retain clients   n119 in a ferociously competitive marketplace.   n120 They complain about having to work in an adversarial environment "in which aggression, selfishness, hostility, suspiciousness, and cynicism are widespread."   n121 They complain about not having control over their lives and about being at the mercy of judges and clients.   n122 They complain about a lack of civility among lawyers.   n123 They complain about a lack of collegiality   n124 and loyalty   n125 among their partners. And they complain about their poor public image.   n126 Mostly, though, they complain about the hours.
 In every study of the career satisfaction of lawyers of which I am aware, in every book or article about the woes of the legal profession that I have read, and in every conversation about life as a practicing lawyer that I have heard, lawyers complain about the long hours they have to work.   n127 Without question, "the single biggest  [*890]  complaint among attorneys is increasingly long workdays with decreasing time for personal and family life."   n128 Lawyers are complaining with increasing vehemence about "living to work, rather than working to live"   n129 --about being " 'asked not to dedicate, but to sacrifice their lives to the firm.' "   n130
 To cite just a few examples: A national survey of lawyers by the National Law Journal reported that "most attorneys in the survey believed their careers were putting too much of a burden on their personal lives. When asked what they especially disliked about practicing law, more than half (54 percent) mentioned too many hours/not enough time for a personal life."   n131 The 1990 ABA study, after describing increasing job dissatisfaction among attorneys, said that "this increased dissatisfaction is directly caused by a deterioration of the lawyer workplace . . . . In particular, the amount of time lawyers have for themselves and their families has become an issue of major concern for many lawyers."   n132 The North Carolina study identified as "a major factor" in attorney dissatisfaction the "lack of enough time to balance work with time for self, family, the community, pro bono, etc."   n133 Respondents to the Michigan Law School survey reported themselves far less satisfied with "the balance of their family and professional lives" than with "their career as a whole" or any of four other measures of "life satisfaction."   n134 And the report of a national conference convened by the ABA to address "the emerging crisis in the quality of lawyers' health and lives" singled out as a "significant" cause of this crisis the fact that lawyers "do not have enough time for themselves and their families--what many have come to call 'the time famine.' "   n135  [*891] 
 Lawyers often suffer from a nostalgic longing for a past that never really existed.   n136 But when it comes to their brutal work schedules, lawyers have reason to complain, and they have reason to believe that the problem has grown worse. "Conventional wisdom just a few decades ago was that lawyers could not reasonably expect to charge for more than 1200 to 1500 hours per year."   n137 Thirty years ago, most partners billed between 1200 and 1400 hours per year and most associates between 1400 and 1600 hours.   n138 As late as the mid-1980s, even associates in large New York firms were often not expected to bill more that 1800 hours annually.   n139 Today, many firms would consider these ranges acceptable only for partners or associates who had died midway through the year.
 A study conducted by William Ross in 1991 discovered that almost half of the associates in private practice billed at least 2000 hours during both 1989 and 1990, and a fifth billed at least 2400 hours in 1990.   n140 Another study conducted by Ross three years later discovered that 51% of associates and 23% of partners billed at least 2000 hours in 1993.   n141 Seventy percent of those responding to the Michigan Law School survey worked an average of fifty or more hours per week; over a quarter of the respondents worked more than sixty hours per week.   n142 The ABA's 1990 study found that 45% of attorneys in private practice billed at least 1920 hours per year, and 16% billed 2400 or more hours.   n143 The same study also found that, although 70% of attorneys are permitted to take more than two weeks of vacation every year, only 48% actually do so.   n144 Finally, an extensive survey by Altman Weil Pensa, a prominent legal consulting firm, found that the  [*892]  median number of billable hours for associates in firms of all sizes in 1995 was 1823; 25% of associates billed 1999 hours or more, and 10% billed at least 2166 hours.   n145 Not long ago, billable hours at these levels "would have been thought unbearable."   n146
 Workloads, like the job dissatisfaction to which they so closely relate, are not distributed equally throughout the profession. Generally speaking, lawyers in private practice work longer hours than those who work for corporations or for the government.   n147 In the 1990 ABA survey, for example, only 56% of those in private practice agreed that they had enough time to spend with their families, compared to 74% of corporate lawyers and 79% of government lawyers.   n148 Similarly, only 46% of private practitioners said that they had enough time for themselves, compared to 53% of corporate lawyers and 66% of government lawyers.   n149 In the words of the study, "time for family and self is a real problem for lawyers in private practice. Far fewer lawyers in corporate counsel and government settings have insufficient time."   n150 The findings of the Michigan Law School survey were similar: Only 20% of the respondents working in private practice were "quite satisfied" with "the balance of their family and professional life," as compared to 35% of those working in corporations, 45% of those working for the government, and 50% of those doing public interest work.   n151
 Within private practice, the general rule of thumb is the bigger the firm, the longer the hours.   n152 For example, a recent study found that over 41% of associates in firms of under 101 lawyers billed fewer than 1800 hours, as compared to about 16% of associates in firms of over 250 lawyers.   n153 At the same time, almost 27% of associates in the smaller firms billed over 1900 hours, as compared to approximately  [*893]  36% of associates in the larger firms.   n154 At the biggest firms in the biggest cities, associates commonly bill 2000 to 2500 hours per year.   n155 Big firm partners do not have it much better. Junior partners at the nation's 125 largest law firms average 1955.5 billable hours per year,   n156 almost 300 hours per year more than partners in small firms.   n157 At some big firms, the average number of hours billed by partners and associates alike is 2000.   n158
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1LWhit on February 17, 2005, 09:36:50 AM
My #1 complaint about law school...Uncle Toms!

There is this one black 1L and I swear...he goes out of his way to be in every white person's face!  When he comes into the library he can't just sit his ass down and crack open a book, he has to make about 6 stops at tables and kiss white ass.  I swear...he makes me sick and he won't even SPEAK to black people.  He just looks straight through us!  But you know what's funny?  During exam time he was studying all alone...the white people left his ass high and dry...LOL!


Another thing...there is this Latina girl that looks down on me, gives me bad looks, bit my head off in a negotiation exercise and gives me dirty looks when I get called on in class.  I saw her resume and guess what her GPA is???  A 2.73!!!!  Dumb chick doesn't even have a 3.00!!!  Ha ha ha...I'm smarter than you are!!!  LOL!  (btw...that's why you never tell your grades!)

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 17, 2005, 09:45:57 AM
Thanks for hyping the legal profession so much, Redman. 

I only skimmed through your posts, but I agree with them.  The biggest drinkers/alcoholics I know are attorneys.  They're all single, divorced, or they refuse to committ fully to their relationships.  Some of them are really bitter and others are on the worst power trip I've seen.  They at least find comfort amongst each other. 

I'm nothing like them, and I hope I never turn into them.   :o
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 17, 2005, 09:48:42 AM
My #1 complaint about law school...Uncle Toms!

There is this one black 1L and I swear...he goes out of his way to be in every white person's face!  When he comes into the library he can't just sit his ass down and crack open a book, he has to make about 6 stops at tables and kiss white ass.  I swear...he makes me sick and he won't even SPEAK to black people.  He just looks straight through us!  But you know what's funny?  During exam time he was studying all alone...the white people left his ass high and dry...LOL!


Another thing...there is this Latina girl that looks down on me, gives me bad looks, bit my head off in a negotiation exercise and gives me dirty looks when I get called on in class.  I saw her resume and guess what her GPA is???  A 2.73!!!!  Dumb chick doesn't even have a 3.00!!!  Ha ha ha...I'm smarter than you are!!!  LOL!  (btw...that's why you never tell your grades!)



I'm sorry to hear of your experience with that Latina.  Some of them can be really uppity, but people behave this way regardless of race.   ::)  I just hope you're not lumping all Latina's together and judging based on this woman's behavior, because this Latina (ME) is nothing like her.   :-*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 17, 2005, 11:23:55 AM
My #1 complaint about law school...Uncle Toms!

There is this one black 1L and I swear...he goes out of his way to be in every white person's face!  When he comes into the library he can't just sit his ass down and crack open a book, he has to make about 6 stops at tables and kiss white ass.  I swear...he makes me sick and he won't even SPEAK to black people.  He just looks straight through us!  But you know what's funny?  During exam time he was studying all alone...the white people left his ass high and dry...LOL!


Another thing...there is this Latina girl that looks down on me, gives me bad looks, bit my head off in a negotiation exercise and gives me dirty looks when I get called on in class.  I saw her resume and guess what her GPA is???  A 2.73!!!!  Dumb chick doesn't even have a 3.00!!!  Ha ha ha...I'm smarter than you are!!!  LOL!  (btw...that's why you never tell your grades!)



1LWhit - are you stupid!

I couldn't imagine going to that school.  I need my fam here or else I wouldn't make it!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1LWhit on February 17, 2005, 11:30:57 AM
My #1 complaint about law school...Uncle Toms!

There is this one black 1L and I swear...he goes out of his way to be in every white person's face!  When he comes into the library he can't just sit his ass down and crack open a book, he has to make about 6 stops at tables and kiss white ass.  I swear...he makes me sick and he won't even SPEAK to black people.  He just looks straight through us!  But you know what's funny?  During exam time he was studying all alone...the white people left his ass high and dry...LOL!


Another thing...there is this Latina girl that looks down on me, gives me bad looks, bit my head off in a negotiation exercise and gives me dirty looks when I get called on in class.  I saw her resume and guess what her GPA is???  A 2.73!!!!  Dumb chick doesn't even have a 3.00!!!  Ha ha ha...I'm smarter than you are!!!  LOL!  (btw...that's why you never tell your grades!)



1LWhit - are you stupid!

I couldn't imagine going to that school.  I need my fam here or else I wouldn't make it!

That wasn't nice!  Are you sure you aren't one of the jerks that attends this hell hole I call law school?????
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: maricutie on February 17, 2005, 01:09:12 PM
Adding this to my unreads.

Contributing to the conversation, however:

I feel like so much depends on the specific law school you'll be attending and the professor to make a rigorous PLS II plan kind of useless. Right now I'm just kinda reading up on the general areas of law to get familiar with the elementary concepts, and hope to remember the briefing skills I learned in one of my rhetoric classes back in the day. Of course, a month or so before law school I'm going to be biting my nails and wondering if I did the right thing, but ah, well.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 17, 2005, 01:18:52 PM
My #1 complaint about law school...Uncle Toms!

There is this one black 1L and I swear...he goes out of his way to be in every white person's face!  When he comes into the library he can't just sit his ass down and crack open a book, he has to make about 6 stops at tables and kiss white ass.  I swear...he makes me sick and he won't even SPEAK to black people.  He just looks straight through us!  But you know what's funny?  During exam time he was studying all alone...the white people left his ass high and dry...LOL!


Another thing...there is this Latina girl that looks down on me, gives me bad looks, bit my head off in a negotiation exercise and gives me dirty looks when I get called on in class.  I saw her resume and guess what her GPA is???  A 2.73!!!!  Dumb chick doesn't even have a 3.00!!!  Ha ha ha...I'm smarter than you are!!!  LOL!  (btw...that's why you never tell your grades!)



1LWhit - are you stupid!

I couldn't imagine going to that school.  I need my fam here or else I wouldn't make it!

That wasn't nice!  Are you sure you aren't one of the jerks that attends this hell hole I call law school?????

C'mon Kansas City

Stupid = Silly

Maybe I've been out on the east coast too long, my lingo is no longer recognizable to my fellow midwesterners
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 17, 2005, 01:22:07 PM
C'mon Kansas City

Stupid = Silly

Maybe I've been out on the east coast too long, my lingo is no longer recognizable to my fellow midwesterners

Haha. I used to call u stupid all the time and u thought I was being rude at first.........is it really an east coast thing?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 17, 2005, 01:43:19 PM
C'mon Kansas City

Stupid = Silly

Maybe I've been out on the east coast too long, my lingo is no longer recognizable to my fellow midwesterners

Haha. I used to call u stupid all the time and u thought I was being rude at first.........is it really an east coast thing?

east coast, son.  mad stupid, yo.  fresh.  word. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 17, 2005, 03:10:11 PM
Redman is an alcoholic...

Look at his avatar...Getting an early start? LOL


1LWhit- Why the black guy gotta be an uncle tom? Maybe the black people are your school are buttholes LOL.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 17, 2005, 07:58:38 PM
C'mon Kansas City

Stupid = Silly

Maybe I've been out on the east coast too long, my lingo is no longer recognizable to my fellow midwesterners

Haha. I used to call u stupid all the time and u thought I was being rude at first.........is it really an east coast thing?

east coast, son.  mad stupid, yo.  fresh.  word. 

yo my man - its spelled with two D's!! MADD!!! MADD STUPID!! nah, just playin.
i am a big fan of alcohol myself, actually, i am drinking right now as i type this and try to discern this 27 page planned parenthood v. carey case.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 17, 2005, 08:07:37 PM
C'mon Kansas City

Stupid = Silly

Maybe I've been out on the east coast too long, my lingo is no longer recognizable to my fellow midwesterners

Haha. I used to call u stupid all the time and u thought I was being rude at first.........is it really an east coast thing?

east coast, son.  mad stupid, yo.  fresh.  word. 

yo my man - its spelled with two D's!! MADD!!! MADD STUPID!! nah, just playin.
i am a big fan of alcohol myself, actually, i am drinking right now as i type this and try to discern this 27 page planned parenthood v. carey case.

 :D If you don't mind me asking, where are you going to school? And if you're in Property II, you may have to recall RAP again, as that mofo mind end up on the final exam  :P, I'm not sure yet, I haven't perused any of my profs old finals yet.

Don't get me started on drinking................
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 17, 2005, 09:31:45 PM
i go to albany. nope, there is no more RAP in property. we only talk about future interests when we discuss deeds. other than tthat, nothing. our prof told us we dont have to worry about the RAP till the bar.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 18, 2005, 07:34:09 AM
Bubbazzz - that's wsup.  You guys must have done Roe v Wade already if you're talkin about Planned Parenthood.  We're still back in the old days in my Con Law class; around the 1930's.  These cats are pissin me off.  It says clear as day in the Constitution, a State shall pass NO LAW doing XYZ and then here come the Supreme Court talkin about that's true, unless they pass a law doing XYZ and ABC.  Where the f*ck did ABC come from?  Who said a gotdamn thing about ABC?  Quit makin up sh!t, Cardozo!!!  Take your ass back to Palsgraff.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lonahawk on February 18, 2005, 01:15:34 PM
bump for my unreads
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shiveringjenny on February 18, 2005, 04:01:27 PM
bump for my unreads
ditto.
Title: ?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 18, 2005, 11:18:06 PM
what's all this bump for unreads business
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 19, 2005, 07:44:20 PM
Bubbazzz- Nice to know bruh  ;D And I see we have another Eastcoaster on here.

Sands-did u expect anything different from Cardozo?

No.  Cardozo isn't so bad, its just that all these damn Supreme Court Justices can talk for days when it comes to the opinions.  Our Con Law prof. is now assigning us into groups and everyday 2 groups will go at it and the rest of the class gets to be the judge as to who won the argument over whatever case we're doing.   And guess which case my group argues in 4 weeks?  None other than Grutter v. Bolinger!!!  Take no prisoners BIIIIATCH!!!

I'm starting to get my mojo back.  How's everybody else feeling this semester?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 20, 2005, 10:04:07 AM
It was tough to go straight back into it after 5 weeks off. I remember, when i first sat down to read my first case after break, i TOTALLY FORGOT HOW TO READ A CASE!! no joke, i was like, uh, what do i look for? it was ugly. now im back into it, tearing it up like jackie chan on red bull.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 20, 2005, 10:30:48 AM
It was tough to go straight back into it after 5 weeks off. I remember, when i first sat down to read my first case after break, i TOTALLY FORGOT HOW TO READ A CASE!! no joke, i was like, uh, what do i look for? it was ugly. now im back into it, tearing it up like jackie chan on red bull.

:D That's hilarious, I feel you though. I didn't forget, it just took me forever! Tell me this, are you still briefing or just book briefing? From what I know from the cats at my school, it's 50/50.

EDIT: You had 5 weeks off! I only got 3 1/2  :(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 20, 2005, 02:50:14 PM
book-brief all the way. briefing, for me at least, takes up way too much time. why am i going to re-write all that stuff if its right there and all i need to do is highlight it, and write in the margins? i stopped briefing 2nd week into law school. yes, a brief does help a lot if u get called on. but i don't really feel it helps that much with finals.


and oh yeah......i hate con law.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 20, 2005, 05:30:13 PM
Ah yes, the ultimate debate.  To brief, or not to brief...that is the question.

To be honest, I breifed 100% all the way thru the first semester, and honestly it didn't f*ckin help that much.  Like Bubbazzz said, its for when you get called on in class.  But other than those famous cases like Palsgraff you're really not transporting too many of those breifs into your outline, which is of course what its all about.  The outline.

Now I do a mixture of both.  I do a short brief just for class that points me to pages in the book where I have placed my notes in the margines.  I find that in order to understand some of these cases I have to take it paragraph by paragraph and translate it into my own words, of course, skipping over the paragraphs which ain't talkin about sh!t, which is usually about 90% of the opinion. 

Nowadays its all about the notes AFTER the case anyway.  That's where my Civ Pro and my Con Law professor get most of the class discussion from.  They whiz thru the cases just so they can get to the notes.  So I make sure I'm up on those notes so a bruh can at least try to look intelligent in class. My Civ Pro cold called this one cat, and ya boy's face lit up red like a stop light cuz he was totally unprepared...the prof. let him stumble around for a while, look like a complete fool, and then before he could get his first sentence out the Prof. called on somebody else right in cat's face. But the story doesn't stop there.  Don't you know my prof. called on the EXACT SAME CAT the very next day?  And WHY was this mafucka not prepared AGAIN???????? Two days in a row!  How do you not know sh!t two days in a row?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 21, 2005, 09:10:38 AM
NO SCHOOL TODAY!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 21, 2005, 12:21:03 PM
U KNOW IT!!!!! i was gonna use this day to start my persuasive memo, but u know what? im takin the day off! F-this $hit! im loungin on the couch and doin nothing - nada, zilch!



except for con law - god i hate that class.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 21, 2005, 02:02:44 PM
Man I just finished that joker last night at about midnight.  So I spend the next hour or so editing and going over it, trying to make it flow at 1 o'clock in the morning to the best of my ability.  Finally I decide to call it a night.  I walk out of the law school and what do I see?  6" of snow on the ground that was not there when I walked into the building a few hours earlier.  What kinda sh!t is that?  You go to school, clear skies, you come out, snow. 

But this story has a happy ending.  I get up to go turn this damn Trial Brief in and the dean sends out an e-mail talkin about class is cancelled!  Then my LRW prof sends an e-mail saying she ain't comin in today, just turn the papers in tomorrow.

I Be Dat
I Be Dat
I Be Dat
I Be Dat


So needless to say a bruh is refining that b!tch right now as we speak
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 21, 2005, 02:07:35 PM
1Ls are so cute man....I'm laughing at you guys while I'm vegging out in front of the television with some oreos and milk.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 21, 2005, 02:14:12 PM
1Ls are so cute man....I'm laughing at you guys while I'm vegging out in front of the television with some oreos and milk.

you won't think its so cute when you're here next year. 

Yo, LRW papers shut down class attendance like ni@@as shut down clubs.  I literrally wrote this one in 3 days b/c I'm 99% certain that we are pidgeon-holed in our LRW grade. She's gonna give me a B+ no matter what I hand in, so I wrote this one however the f*ck I felt like, throwin in all kinds of sh!t.



Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 21, 2005, 02:35:04 PM
Watch that mess backfire and you end up with a C.

Muahahahaha


Well I'm not in law school yet so I will continue to laugh at you guys....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 21, 2005, 03:13:53 PM
Watch that mess backfire and you end up with a C.

Muahahahaha


Well I'm not in law school yet so I will continue to laugh at you guys....

Let's make sure we keep close tabs on Regal over the next year.  And all the pre-l's on this board for that matter.  I am very curious to see what people have to say after that first semester...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 21, 2005, 03:17:30 PM
Bah! You don't need an excuse to keep taps on me Burning LOL...

Hey, I'm even going to try to get straight A's....Muahahahahah
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 21, 2005, 03:32:54 PM
sands, i'm sure all that wisdom you've imparted on us re: outlining, reading, and having lots of sex before 1L will work wonders for all us pre-L's.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 21, 2005, 04:39:27 PM
sands, i'm sure all that wisdom you've imparted on us re: outlining, reading, and having lots of sex before 1L will work wonders for all us pre-L's.

I'm sure my size 11 K-Swiss to your backside will work wonders
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 21, 2005, 04:41:41 PM
You wear a size 11 sands? Hmmmm
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 21, 2005, 05:06:28 PM
sands, i'm sure all that wisdom you've imparted on us re: outlining, reading, and having lots of sex before 1L will work wonders for all us pre-L's.

I'm sure my size 11 K-Swiss to your backside will work wonders

sands, save all your energy for your schoolwork.  i don't see no size 11's doing me any harm anyway.   :-*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 21, 2005, 09:19:14 PM
Putting up the Bat Symbol for SMUJD...

Where the hell are the rest of the 1L's??
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 21, 2005, 09:23:12 PM
They are studying like you should be doing LOL.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 22, 2005, 07:36:33 AM
All pre-laws named R.M be quiet up in here.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 22, 2005, 10:35:11 AM
Actually let me place this here, Warrior and Bubbazz, your LS's are supposed to be representing at the convention this weekend, are either of you attending?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 22, 2005, 04:27:42 PM
are u talking about the NYU public interest convention? thats the only one i know about. in any event, no i am not going. i have maaaaaaaaaaadd work to do with this dang memo.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1LWhit on February 22, 2005, 04:53:45 PM
Putting up the Bat Symbol for SMUJD...

Where the hell are the rest of the 1L's??

Right here!

I can't believe you guys get graded in LRW!  Our LRW is pass/fail.  This semester it's called Intro to Advocacy.  I have to start on my appellate brief...damn.


1Ls...describe your school's BLSA in 5 words.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 22, 2005, 06:16:40 PM
Putting up the Bat Symbol for SMUJD...

Where the hell are the rest of the 1L's??

Right here!

I can't believe you guys get graded in LRW!  Our LRW is pass/fail.  This semester it's called Intro to Advocacy.  I have to start on my appellate brief...damn.


1Ls...describe your school's BLSA in 5 words.

:-X    you go first
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 22, 2005, 06:59:38 PM
im in the celtic law society, does that count?

Drunken Irish Leprachauns(sp?) Mocking Lawyers
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 22, 2005, 07:35:24 PM
im in the celtic law society, does that count?

Drunken Irish Leprachauns(sp?) Mocking Lawyers

LOL :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 22, 2005, 07:45:51 PM
Putting up the Bat Symbol for SMUJD...

Where the hell are the rest of the 1L's??

Right here!

I can't believe you guys get graded in LRW!  Our LRW is pass/fail.  This semester it's called Intro to Advocacy.  I have to start on my appellate brief...damn.


1Ls...describe your school's BLSA in 5 words.

active

lazy

up

down

sideways
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 22, 2005, 07:47:01 PM
Bubazzz & Indigo - LadyDay's talking about the North East BLSA conference this weekend in Rhode Island.  I take it you guys didn't here about it.  Its not too late to not come.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 22, 2005, 07:47:44 PM
Putting up the Bat Symbol for SMUJD...

Where the hell are the rest of the 1L's??

Right here!

I can't believe you guys get graded in LRW!  Our LRW is pass/fail.  This semester it's called Intro to Advocacy.  I have to start on my appellate brief...damn.


1Ls...describe your school's BLSA in 5 words.

active

lazy

up

down

sideways

Well there it is.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 23, 2005, 01:09:12 PM
So only 1 cat wants to go to law school to know the law huh? 

sad sad sad
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 23, 2005, 01:10:18 PM
Most "cats" are actually studying LOL

I just want to say that I did a paper three hours before class and got an A...muahahhaa. It's great to be an UG where I can get away with Bsing my last semester.


Muahahahahaha

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 23, 2005, 01:23:10 PM
Most "cats" are actually studying LOL

I just want to say that I did a paper three hours before class and got an A...muahahhaa. It's great to be an UG where I can get away with Bsing my last semester.


Muahahahahaha




you better enjoy that sh!t while it lasts

its a slightly different ball game up here
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 23, 2005, 01:23:59 PM
SO I heard. Answer your PM.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1LWhit on February 23, 2005, 07:21:36 PM
My school's BLSA:

Unorganized

Catty

All talk

Unemployed

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 23, 2005, 07:23:59 PM
Most "cats" are actually studying LOL

I just want to say that I did a paper three hours before class and got an A...muahahhaa. It's great to be an UG where I can get away with Bsing my last semester.


Muahahahahaha




you better enjoy that sh!t while it lasts

its a slightly different ball game up here

Ain't that the truth!  Natural ability isn't enough in LS.  Some have to learn that the hard way.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lexington on February 23, 2005, 07:28:51 PM
1Ls...describe your school's BLSA in 5 words.

Can you add the name of your school to the description, pleez?  I'm interested in what the BLSA's are like at the various law schools and I'm new here and I don't know where everyone goes.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 23, 2005, 07:33:44 PM
I am, by nature, verbose, so I can't limit my description to 5 words.  Our equivalent of BLSA (it's called something else) is a great group!  They are all very active in the organization, as well as on other journals and moot court.  I think the most impressive fact is that all the 1L members who applied for a firm job last year got one.  Compare that with the roughly 10% of the general student population who did. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 23, 2005, 07:36:29 PM
1Ls, I know what the Socratic method is, but how does it work in LS?  

Specifically:

how early in the semester do the professors start using it?

and how do they ask refer to students?  Is it by randomly calling out names from a list or by choosing whomever catches their fancy?

I know all professors are different, but I'm wondering what your general experiences have been.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 23, 2005, 07:43:43 PM
1Ls, I know what the Socratic method is, but how does it work in LS?  

Specifically:

how early in the semester do the professors start using it?

and how do they ask refer to students?  Is it by randomly calling out names from a list or by choosing whomever catches their fancy?

I know all professors are different, but I'm wondering what your general experiences have been.

Thanks.

It depends on the school and the professor.  Some schools are brutall Socratic, while others have a more discussion-oriented environment.  Some profs will cold call, others will give you notice of when you should be prepared to be called upon.

At my school, even profs who cold call are generally fairly accomodating and do not make it their life's purpose to humiliate you in front of 120 of your classmates.  I prefer it that way, as I believe that at times the Socratic method can be warped to serve the narcissistic tendencies of law professors rather than function as a practical pedogogical method.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 23, 2005, 08:45:58 PM
1Ls, I know what the Socratic method is, but how does it work in LS?  

Specifically:

how early in the semester do the professors start using it?

and how do they ask refer to students?  Is it by randomly calling out names from a list or by choosing whomever catches their fancy?

I know all professors are different, but I'm wondering what your general experiences have been.

Thanks.

lil-token has pretty much explained it. at my school it's more discussion oriented. at some schools the professor will call on one student and grill that one student for a 45 min session. Ask Sands, he has seen this. You can usually see the professor refer to his list, at my school on the first/second day you pick where you want to sit, and then fill out a seating chart for the professor and they call on people from there. it's pretty random. You should watch the paper chase, it can be like that but a lot less brutal. in one of my classes the professor will actually call on someone and be like "is today a good day?" and you can say yes or no. it's not a big deal. but if he calls on you 5 times and each and every single time you say no, then he probably will take note of that and come final grade time you either will not get a bump or he could bump you down. in some classes they'll begin on the first day, for the most part i've noticed that they don't, the professor might lecture for the first day.

The thing to remember is:

#1 Be prepared
#2 Relax, everyone is in the same boat, you'll feel like you look like an idiot, but unless you really are a idiot (or a gunner) everyone else in the class will feel your pain and sympathize with you. If anything, they're not thinking about whether or not what you're saying is correct, they're thanking GOD that they weren't the one called on! And everyone will be in your position someday.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 23, 2005, 09:03:04 PM
i agree with pretty much everthing. my school is HEAVILY socratic. from the first day (our seating chart is alphabetical by last name, so the prof. has the chart the first day) every single one of my prof.'s grills people. of course some are worse than others. it is the worst in the fall semester because u really dont know ur classmates that well, its a bunch of a strangers, and here u are, getting grilled by the prof., the last thing u want to do is sound dumb. of course, no matter what, u will get at least some of the questions wrong, everyone does. and actually, everyone really doesn't care how u do, cause they are happy they aren't picked on. and the ones who do smile and shake their head and laugh at people who try to answer in class, well, ur not gonna friends with those a$$holes anyway, so F'em! In the spring semester, it gets a lot easier. u know most of ur classmates, they know ur intelligent, if u bomb when u get called on, they know u had a bad day...know u got that dang memo due in a week, with 4 hours of con law reading to do. (oh wait, i just described what happened to me today, ha)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 24, 2005, 01:02:37 AM
1Ls, I know what the Socratic method is, but how does it work in LS? 

Specifically:

how early in the semester do the professors start using it?


Day 1

and how do they ask refer to students? 

Hey You!

Is it by randomly calling out names from a list or by choosing whomever catches their fancy?

They look to see who's playing solitare on their laptop and open fire.


I know all professors are different, but I'm wondering what your general experiences have been.



The socratic method keeps you sharp.  I do the best in classes where the professors stick to it.  We've all seen that poor rat bastard who gets called on and doesn't have a clue.  You don't wanna be that cat.  My school factors your ability to answer into your final grade for each class, for example, if you are able to respond with a substantive argument consistently throughout the semester then your grade is bumped up at the end of the semester from say a B+ to an A-.  Conversely, if you are not able to hold it down, your grade is bumped down which could mean the difference between a B- and a C+.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 24, 2005, 01:12:19 AM
1Ls...describe your school's BLSA in 5 words.

Can you add the name of your school to the description, pleez?  I'm interested in what the BLSA's are like at the various law schools and I'm new here and I don't know where everyone goes.

Thanks.

The roll call is as follows:

The NY crew:

LadyDay - Cardozo
Blue Warrior - NYLS
Myself - Rutgers
Bubazz - Albany

Then you got:

1LWhit at Illinois
Lil' Token at an undisclosed law school somewhere west of the mississippi
SMU obviously at SMU in Texas
Blk Reign - recent grad from GW

uhhh....am I missing anybody? I think that's about it.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lexington on February 24, 2005, 08:45:08 AM
1Ls...describe your school's BLSA in 5 words.

Can you add the name of your school to the description, pleez?  I'm interested in what the BLSA's are like at the various law schools and I'm new here and I don't know where everyone goes.

Thanks.

The roll call is as follows:

The NY crew:

LadyDay - Cardozo
Blue Warrior - NYLS
Myself - Rutgers
Bubazz - Albany

Then you got:

1LWhit at Illinois
Lil' Token at an undisclosed law school somewhere west of the mississippi
SMU obviously at SMU in Texas
Blk Reign - recent grad from GW

uhhh....am I missing anybody? I think that's about it.

Thank you Sands  :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:15:00 AM
Hehe I'm a future 1L...does that count?


Ugh...if I need "help"  :P ;)

Well someone tutor me. HEHEHEHHEE
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 24, 2005, 11:36:10 AM
Hehe I'm a future 1L...does that count?


Ugh...if I need "help"  :P ;)

Well someone tutor me. HEHEHEHHEE

lol. what the hell are you talking about? your a nut.
Title: POLL RESULTS 2/24/05
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 24, 2005, 12:01:40 PM
#1 Reason for going to law school is to live comfortably
#2 Reason is to live filthy rich
#3 Reason is the help the community
and 1 cat wants to know the law

Time for a new poll.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 12:24:19 PM
I am a nut Ladyday...Tehehehehe


And I'm going to an attorney one day.

NOw that's scary...

 ;)
Title: lol
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 24, 2005, 12:28:25 PM
Oh lord

help us
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 12:30:53 PM
Replace lord with my name Sands...

Bahahahahaha  ;D
Title: Re: POLL RESULTS 2/24/05
Post by: Ladyday on February 24, 2005, 04:21:32 PM
#1 Reason for going to law school is to live comfortably
#2 Reason is to live filthy rich
#3 Reason is the help the community
and 1 cat wants to know the law

Time for a new poll.  Thoughts?

are u the cat who wants to know the law?
Title: Re: POLL RESULTS 2/24/05
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 24, 2005, 04:35:38 PM
#1 Reason for going to law school is to live comfortably
#2 Reason is to live filthy rich
#3 Reason is the help the community
and 1 cat wants to know the law

Time for a new poll.  Thoughts?

are u the cat who wants to know the law?


LOL

naw. I do wanna know the law but I wasn't the one who put that down though
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 24, 2005, 06:53:46 PM
SOCRATIC STORY OF THE DAY (from Civ Pro):

Prof: So when the litigation starts the burden is on which side?
Sands: The plaintiff.
Prof: And why is that?
Sands: Because the defendant is guilty until proven innocent.
Prof: I think you mean to say innocent until proven guilty right?
Sands: Oh yeah, that too.
[Class laughs their ass off]
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 24, 2005, 07:24:28 PM
SOCRATIC STORY OF THE DAY (from Civ Pro):

Prof: So when the litigation starts the burden is on which side?
Sands: The plaintiff.
Prof: And why is that?
Sands: Because the defendant is guilty until proven innocent.
Prof: I think you mean to say innocent until proven guilty right?
Sands: Oh yeah, that too.
[Class laughs their ass off]



funny.  were you nervous?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 24, 2005, 08:02:37 PM
i have another funny one:

::: Bubbazzz looking at the clock - only 10 minutes left :::

Prof: so what do u think? (points to bubbazzz)
Bubz: Uh, I agree with what she said
Prof: why?
Bubz: because their was no fundamental right
Prof: hmmm, interesting, now what question are you trying to answer?
Bubz; I'm sorry?
Prof: we covered that 10 minutes ago
Bubz: oh
Prof: so now tell me, what did she say that you agreed with?
Bubz: i don't remember
Prof: how can u not remember? you clearly remembered it when you said you agreed with her
Bubz: well, i did remember then, but now i don't.
Prof: (shakes his head) dumba$$

::: with that, the whole class, including myself erupts in laughter :::

Now he called on me clearly because i was staring at the clock and wanted to make a point.
Moral of the story - WEAR A WATCH TO CLASS
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 24, 2005, 08:10:28 PM
Oh, allow me to share some of the things my Written and Oral Advocacy prof said today:

"You’re like the three stooges, but not as smart."

***

Prof: "So are you troubled?"
Student: "Yes, we are both troubled."
Prof: "In ways relevant to this class?"

****

"Can you see anything that will be good for the plaintiffs in this case?  It’s something tiny, but I can’t imagine you will be able to find it."

***

"No set of you is smarter than the other.  If you are fishing for a compliment, there it is."




Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on February 24, 2005, 08:53:32 PM
Hello everyone . . . .. I've been drowning in law school . . . .. I hope everyone is doing fine.  Pre 1L's enjoy it while it lasts.  I haven't had a minute of free time since the second week of school.  I've already pulled three all nighters. 

Burning Sands, I'm drowning . . .. that's why you haven't heard from me.  My insomnia is gone, but now I don't have time to sleep!
I have lots of ground to make up for from last semester.

Hope everyone is doing well. . . . I haven't forgotten ya'll . . . :)

I think I'm taking the rest of the night off, so I'll be around for a little while.

 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 24, 2005, 09:40:20 PM
i have another funny one:

::: Bubbazzz looking at the clock - only 10 minutes left :::

Prof: so what do u think? (points to bubbazzz)
Bubz: Uh, I agree with what she said
Prof: why?
Bubz: because their was no fundamental right
Prof: hmmm, interesting, now what question are you trying to answer?
Bubz; I'm sorry?
Prof: we covered that 10 minutes ago
Bubz: oh
Prof: so now tell me, what did she say that you agreed with?
Bubz: i don't remember
Prof: how can u not remember? you clearly remembered it when you said you agreed with her
Bubz: well, i did remember then, but now i don't.
Prof: (shakes his head) dumba$$

::: with that, the whole class, including myself erupts in laughter :::

Now he called on me clearly because i was staring at the clock and wanted to make a point.
Moral of the story - WEAR A WATCH TO CLASS

Bubbazz, Sands H I L A R I O U S

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 24, 2005, 09:44:31 PM
Seu,

You seemed to be pretty scared about this whole Socratic method thing. Just remember: Every 1L is. You're all going to be scared shitless. Just relax. As long as you make sure you do your reading and are prepared you will be ok. The very first time it will be scary but everyone will have to go through this hazing. IT'S OK. I cannot stress this enough to you. Everyone is on the same equal footing.
Title: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 24, 2005, 09:56:52 PM
SMU - welcome back.  We're sharing Socratic Hazing Stories, join in.

Bubazzz - LOL! I was thru as soon as you said "I agree with what she said".  That is the #1 patented text book 1L answer to any question...until you realize that its only a set up so that the prof. can kill you

seu - it just happens like that sometimes when you're in the hot seat, you put something out there and don't realize it until its out there.

Lil Token - Classic one liners right there.  Here's another one for you guys

Again from the Chronicles of Civ Pro:

Prof: I need a plaintiff attorney [looks around]...uhhhh You
Unsuspecting Student 1 (US1): uhhhh... ok
Prof: So as plaintiff's attorney what would you argue for your client in this case to rebut the defendants summary judgment?
US1: uhhhhhh....[looks at case book] :-[ uhhhhhhh...
Prof: OK I need a Co-Counsel for the plaintiff's attorney [looks around]....You
US2:  :o
Prof: So what can you argue here in this case to help out your fellow plaintiff attorney?
US2: uhhhhh...I didn't get all the way thru this case
Prof: Well perhaps Co-Counsel has a summer intern who's actually read the case...[looks around] You, you're the summer intern. Have you read the case?
US3:   :o  :-[ :-X
Prof: That's it. You're all fired.


SAME CLASS:

Prof: So let's break away from the case for a minute and let me pose a Hypo...[looks at seating chart]...ehhhh Yes You in the back
Student: I have to pass
Prof: ??? It's a Hypo.  How do you pass on a Hypo???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lexington on February 24, 2005, 10:00:15 PM
SMU - welcome back.  We're sharing Socratic Hazing Stories, join in.

Bubazzz - LOL! I was thru as soon as you said "I agree with what she said".  That is the #1 patented text book 1L answer to any question...until you realize that its only a set up so that the prof. can kill you

seu - it just happens like that sometimes when you're in the hot seat, you put something out there and don't realize it until its out there.

Lil Token - Classic one liners right there.  Here's another one for you guys

Again from the Chronicles of Civ Pro:

Prof: I need a plaintiff attorney [looks around]...uhhhh You
Unsuspecting Student 1 (US1): uhhhh... ok
Prof: So as plaintiff's attorney what would you argue for your client in this case to rebut the defendants summary judgment?
US1: uhhhhhh....[looks at case book] :-[ uhhhhhhh...
Prof: OK I need a Co-Counsel for the plaintiff's attorney [looks around]....You
US2:  :o
Prof: So what can you argue here in this case to help out your fellow plaintiff attorney?
US2: uhhhhh...I didn't get all the way thru this case
Prof: Well perhaps Co-Counsel has a summer intern who's actually read the case...[looks around] You, you're the summer intern. Have you read the case?
US3:   :o  :-[ :-X
Prof: That's it. You're all fired.


SAME CLASS:

Prof: So let's break away from the case for a minute and let me pose a Hypo...[looks at seating chart]...ehhhh Yes You in the back
Student: I have to pass
Prof: ??? It's a Hypo.  How do you pass on a Hypo???

LOL
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on February 24, 2005, 10:03:21 PM
I don't really have any Socratic hazing stories . . . I haven't been called on that much in class. Just in criminal law last semester . . . .shudder.  Just know that when you do get called on, no one ever remembers after the next class, because then someone else gets called on, etc.  I don't remember any of it.

Except one day in civ pro (my favorite class still)--I got called on and I wasn't prepared. But that was because I had been up all night studying and working on our closed brief.  I felt bad b/c I missed an opportunity to talk in class (you get so few of them--our classes are like 100 people.) not because I want to show off, but because I would like to say something once in awhile without having to justify it to the entire world.  . . . .but, that's life I guess. Especially the life of a lawyer! :) ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on February 24, 2005, 10:37:01 PM
The poll, like all American polls, needs an option for "Other."  Only then is it politically correct.  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on February 24, 2005, 10:37:41 PM
By the way Sands, love the picture.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 24, 2005, 10:41:48 PM
Sands you have mastered the art of storytelling... that was hillarious
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 10:54:25 PM
I don't think Socratic Method seems so bad. From my personal experience, I think way better under pressure and on my feet. The Socratic Method is a great way to keep students on top of their readings. Then again, ask me two months after being in law school.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 24, 2005, 10:58:18 PM
I don't think Socratic Method seems so bad. From my personal experience, I think way better under pressure and on my feet. The Socratic Method is a great way to keep students on top of their readings. Then again, ask me two months after being in law school.
If you end up at Harvard, I doubt you will remain so optimistic. ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:01:06 PM


Honestly, I've heard two sides of the story in terms of how stressful law school is. Law school is what you make of it from what I gather. I'm very passionate about going into the field, so I don't expect to have a nervous break down or anything. I think I might actually enjoy law school.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 24, 2005, 11:05:03 PM


Honestly, I've heard two sides of the story in terms of how stressful law school is. Law school is what you make of it from what I gather. I'm very passionate about going into the field, so I don't expect to have a nervous break down or anything. I think I might actually enjoy law school.

You'll enjoy it.. Especially if you're good with time management..and you have excellent study skills.. There's a big difference from ug grad and law school though.. All work no play.. :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 24, 2005, 11:07:42 PM


Honestly, I've heard two sides of the story in terms of how stressful law school is. Law school is what you make of it from what I gather. I'm very passionate about going into the field, so I don't expect to have a nervous break down or anything. I think I might actually enjoy law school.

You're suffering from 0L overoptimism.  I have wanted to be a lawyer since I was nine and have dreamed about attending my school since I was 13.  I started ordering law school bulletins my freshman year in college.  I was fanatic about law school.

But, alas, the reality is that law school is no tea party.  It's damn hard work and you will very likely have a nervous breakdown or suffer great emotional trauma during your first semester.  I consider myself one of the most resillient women I know, and my ass was crawled up in bed, in the fetal position at 4 in the morning, crying hysterically before my last final.  I can't explain what caused it, as I had no rational reason to fear that particular final (I did better in that class than any other).  

For most people, loving the idea of law school as a pre 1L turns into tolerating the process when you actually get there.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:10:28 PM
See I realize that law school is very different from UG. I'm going into the game expecting that I will probably be stretched to the limits and challenged beyond my wildest dreams. Sounds exciting actually. UG has become boring b/c I'm not challenged. Everything is easy for me. I don't even have to go to class and get A's on the midterms without picking up a book. That's boring to me. I need something that will keep my on my P's and Q's.


True...but we're two different people Lil_token. I handle pressure differently from other people.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 24, 2005, 11:11:25 PM
I think that my worse experience was staying up for 72 hours studying for winter finals my 1L... The moment that I went home to Chi, I crashed for 17 hours str8..
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:13:40 PM
I've stayed up weeks at a time with no sleep and expected to learn a vase amount of material to perfection at a moment's notice. I can deal with pressure LOL.

Little inside joke there...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 24, 2005, 11:17:12 PM
See I realize that law school is very different from UG. I'm going into the game expecting that I will probably be stretched to the limits and challenged beyond my wildest dreams. Sounds exciting actually. UG has become boring b/c I'm not challenged. Everything is easy for me. I don't even have to go to class and get A's on the midterms without picking up a book. That's boring to me. I need something that will keep my on my P's and Q's.


True...but we're two different people Lil_token. I handle pressure differently from other people.

I was the same way in UG.  Did close to nothing and gradated summa cum laude.  Keep in  mind, however, that law school pressure and UG pressure are two different things.  Not only are you asked to get a great deal of work done in a short time span, you are expected to completely change your method of analysis and writing. 

I don't care how good of a writer you are in college (my UG profs used to sing my praises), you will be humbled when you begin your first memo.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 24, 2005, 11:18:04 PM
I've stayed up weeks at a time with no sleep and expected to learn a vase amount of material to perfection at a moment's notice. I can deal with pressure LOL.

Little inside joke there...

 
Uhh huh..LOL.. sands and i can definitely relate to that
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:22:49 PM
Writing is one issue I am concerned about b/c I heard EVERYONE gets ripped apart in legal writing. Eh...But as for as Socratic Method, I'll see what happens. I don't think it's anything to freak out about unless the individual has a fear of public speaking (which we all have to get over since we want to be attorneys one day). Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I don't see the purpose of freaking out before you actually get to law school.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 24, 2005, 11:31:26 PM
If that ain't the f*cking truth...

I'm a humble cat.  I came in here humble and have been humbled even more.  I have come from a rough background, and I believe in gettin on the hustle, putting in the work and making things happen to get to where you wanna be.  I've been in tough spots before, that ain't nothing new. 

HOWEVER, After my first semester of law school I went into a quasi-depression, withdrew from classes, withdrew from friends, just pretty much withdrew from the world, found a bottle of puerto rican rum and became an alcoholic and stayed up until 4 am walkin around the house for no reason.

I came to a point where I couldn't do it anymore. 

Law School = 1
Burning Sands = 0

So then I looked around and realized something...EVERYBODY in my class was feeling the same way.  EVERYBODY.  No exceptions.  All those people who thought they knew what pressure was found out the real deal.

Folks were freakin out.  Nobody had experienced mess like this.  You work and you work and you work and you put in 4.0 level of work and you get 3.0 results (if you're on of the good students). 

So in the end, I was only able to bounce back after a swift kick in the ass from LadyDay and calling on my classmates for help who came to my rescue...otherwise this semester was not lookin good for the home team.  My classmates and I just had to come to the realization that we had just got our asses beat, and once we realized that, everything just started fitting together.  We picked ourselves up, dusted each other off, and are making Round 2 up in this piece as we speak.

Ya'll continue to pray for us. (only half joking here)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 24, 2005, 11:34:19 PM
See I realize that law school is very different from UG. I'm going into the game expecting that I will probably be stretched to the limits and challenged beyond my wildest dreams. Sounds exciting actually. UG has become boring b/c I'm not challenged. Everything is easy for me. I don't even have to go to class and get A's on the midterms without picking up a book. That's boring to me. I need something that will keep my on my P's and Q's.


True...but we're two different people Lil_token. I handle pressure differently from other people.

Regal,

Listen to lil here. She is speaking the truth. We aren't trying to scare you or undermine your abilities, we're telling you that it's VERY different. My mother for a moment thought something had possessed her daughter. You see, I was just like you, never went to class, didn't study for *&^%, and would always pull good grades. On top of that, I would almost never go a day without talking to moms. When her daughter called her one day after weeks of no communication, at work, freaking out, she thought I had really lost it. Not her daughter who she's hardly ever see pick up a book but brought home straight A's.

I'm just saying don't get OVER-CONFIDENT, be cautious. And stay focused.

Of course I wish you and everyone else the best of luck, and all of you will have me, Sands, blk_reign, Lil, Blue, SMU, Bubbazz and others to come to whenever you need the support.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 24, 2005, 11:36:44 PM
Sample UG writing:

In his radical text, The Souls of Black Folk, W. E. B. Du Bois attempts to grapple with the subordination of African Americans in the dawn of the twentieth century.  The text is likely intended to emphasize the forced submission of blacks to the societal notions of inequality propagated by institutional forces, as well as a to critique the popularly accepted remedies to post-slavery tensions offered by figures like Booker T. Washington. A significant portion of the frame of Du Bois’ argument rests on conceptual pillars of sociology.  While exploring the dual consciousness of African Americans, he utilizes structuralist theory and the notion of a self-fulfilling prophecy to explain the degradation of African Americans, as well as to recommend a radical change in the struggle for advancement in post-slavery society.
Central to the understanding of The Souls of Black Folk is the concept of dual consciousness.  This recurring theme is sometimes paired with the metaphor of the veil to illustrate confusion surrounding the internal and external sources of identity of African Americans.  Du Bois outlines the problematic areas of African American identity as early as the first chapter of his work.  He sets up the argument by emphasizing the way in which the African culture is portrayed as inferior to many European and Asian cultures.  He calls the Negro a “sort of seventh son” whose cultural contribution to the world is perceived as marginal at best (651).  This example serves as a testament to the way in which whites tend to regard all that is African, or in some way linked to African roots, is innately inferior to cultures of lighter skinned people.  Du Bois argues that when this theory is backed by societal institutions and introduced as fact to African Americans, it initiates an external force that significantly affects their self identification.  As a result of this force, blacks view themselves through a mirror skewed by whites and their Eurocentric ideology.  This externally imposed image is constantly at war with the self-generated image of the African American.  This conflict is what creates the notion of the double consciousness.  To Du Bois, double consciousness is the irreconcilable difference between the two images.  This two-ness is problematic because it creates a Negro and an American as separate entities in one body.  Throughout the remainder of the text, Du Bois urges Negroes to become African Americans by gaining insight into their intrinsic cultural, economic and social worth and by demanding rights allotted to all Americans.


Sample Law School Writing:

Transformative Elements:
   The court is likely to find that the transformation of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s image into a bobbing head doll wearing a three-piece suit and carrying an automatic weapon is sufficient to warrant First Amendment protection.  A balancing test that weighs First Amendment interest against the right to publicity is used to determine if a work has sufficient transformative elements to receive First Amendment protection, and thus, bar a statutory claim.  The inquiry seeks to determine if  a work in question adds “significant creative elements so as to be transformed into something more than a mere celebrity likeness or imitation.”  Comedy,  25 Cal. 4th 387, 399.  A work is said to have significant transformative elements if the celebrity’s likeness is only a component of the raw materials from which the work is synthesized and if the product in question so transforms the likeness as to make that product primarily the artist’s expression rather than the likeness of the celebrity. Id. at p.407.
   Courts have often taken an ad-hoc approach to the determination of whether a work contains enough transformative elements as to warrant protection under the First Amendment.  However, the more creative elements the work contains, the less likely it is to infringe on economic rights and the right to publicity protected by Section 3344.  See Comedy III Productions, Inc. v. Saderup, 25 Cal. 4th 387;  Winter v. DC Comics, 30 Cal. 4th 881.  The Winter court ruled that a comic book depiction of the Winter Brothers, a musical group, where the group members’ respective likenesses were attached to worm-like bodies, had sufficient transformative elements to evoke First Amendment protection. Winter,  30 Cal. 4th 881.
    The protections for parody, however, are not absolute.  A New Jersey District Court, in an appropriation of likeness claim against an Elvis Presley impersonator, ruled that although the public interest in entertainment allows for the occasional good-faith imitation of a celebrity to achieve commentary or humor, one cannot appropriate the valuable attributes of another’s likeness without permission from those who hold the rights to that likeness. Estate of  Presley v. Ressen, 513 F.Supp. 1339 (1981).  Nor have all courts agreed that First Amendment protections are limited to parody and imitation.  The Comedy court emphasized that “the transformative elements or creative contributions that require First Amendment protections are not confined to parody, and can take many forms, from factual reporting to subtle social criticism.” Comedy,  25 Cal. 4th 387, 406.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:39:28 PM
Oh I don't think I'm being overly confident, just realistic. I never said law school was going to be easy, heck it's probably going to be the most challenging task in my life however; I don't plan on having a nervous breakdown. If I ever feel to the point where I can't take it anymore or where I might step off the edge, I'll call on a higher power.

Ladyday, I can definitely understand where you are coming from in terms of your mom. I talk to my mom like four or five times a day. I can't imagine having a day where I don't speak to her.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 24, 2005, 11:40:38 PM
You know the tragedy of it all  :'(... For the bar exam- they want you to unlearn the method of thinking that you spent three yrs mastering in law school... They want you to remove all theory out of your answers. Very few points are awarded for spotting issues...

As lame as it may sound..invest in the Gilbert Law audio tapes..they work wonders
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:42:34 PM
Eh....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 24, 2005, 11:43:37 PM
You know the tragedy of it all  :'(... For the bar exam- they want you to unlearn the method of thinking that you spent three yrs mastering in law school... They want you to remove all theory out of your answers. Very few points are awarded for spotting issues...

As lame as it may sound..invest in the Gilbert Law audio tapes..they work wonders

Girl, between Gilbert's and E&E, I might have a tough time coming up with grocery money come finals!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 24, 2005, 11:45:47 PM
You know the tragedy of it all  :'(... For the bar exam- they want you to unlearn the method of thinking that you spent three yrs mastering in law school... They want you to remove all theory out of your answers. Very few points are awarded for spotting issues...

As lame as it may sound..invest in the Gilbert Law audio tapes..they work wonders

Girl, between Gilbert's and E&E, I might have a tough time coming up with grocery money come finals!

LOL :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 24, 2005, 11:47:27 PM
Oh I don't think I'm being overly confident, just realistic. I never said law school was going to be easy, heck it's probably going to be the most challenging task in my life however; I don't plan on having a nervous breakdown. If I ever feel to the point where I can't take it anymore or where I might step off the edge, I'll call on a higher power.

Ladyday, I can definitely understand where you are coming from in terms of your mom. I talk to my mom like four or five times a day. I can't imagine having a day where I don't speak to her.


I don't think ANYone PLANS on having a nervous breakdown or becoming depressed during law school.  *&^%, when I heard people predicting that gloom and doom, I was sure I was above, sure I was different.  No, ma'am, we are all weak and law school brings that out in ways you cannot possibly imagine.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:50:48 PM
I suppose. We'll see. Feel free to use my post to say I told you so if I come in here crawling on hands and knees with a 40 in my mouth LOL. I've spoken to people who've done through grind of law school and each person is different. My cousin who went to Stanford said law school was very difficult but she didn't lose it. She felt frustration mostly from the dense reading. On the other hand, I have another cousin who called home crying everyday and had to be put on anti-depressants. I really think it depends on the individual.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 24, 2005, 11:56:17 PM
Oh, and the difference in length of time spent on assignments is out of this world!

The sample UG paragraph is part of a 10 page paper, which took me about 4 hours to write.  Turned it in the next day and got an A.

The Sample LS paragraph alone (with all the revisions) took about 2 days.  Notice that it isn't even the final draft. :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 24, 2005, 11:57:50 PM
So do you guys allow yourselves to have "me" days?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 25, 2005, 12:01:19 AM
So do you guys allow yourselves to have "me" days?

Most weeks, yes.  I take Saturday.  Some weeks you can't because you need to catch up or you have a big assignment due.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on February 25, 2005, 12:05:41 AM
 So do you guys allow yourselves to have "me" days?
Quote
Yeah during winter break... LOL :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 25, 2005, 12:08:34 AM


Sample Law School Writing:

Transformative Elements:
   The court is likely to find that the transformation of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s image into a bobbing head doll wearing a three-piece suit and carrying an automatic weapon is sufficient to warrant First Amendment protection.  A balancing test that weighs First Amendment interest against the right to publicity is used to determine if a work has sufficient transformative elements to receive First Amendment protection, and thus, bar a statutory claim.  The inquiry seeks to determine if  a work in question adds “significant creative elements so as to be transformed into something more than a mere celebrity likeness or imitation.”  Comedy,  25 Cal. 4th 387, 399.  A work is said to have significant transformative elements if the celebrity’s likeness is only a component of the raw materials from which the work is synthesized and if the product in question so transforms the likeness as to make that product primarily the artist’s expression rather than the likeness of the celebrity. Id. at p.407.
   Courts have often taken an ad-hoc approach to the determination of whether a work contains enough transformative elements as to warrant protection under the First Amendment.  However, the more creative elements the work contains, the less likely it is to infringe on economic rights and the right to publicity protected by Section 3344.  See Comedy III Productions, Inc. v. Saderup, 25 Cal. 4th 387;  Winter v. DC Comics, 30 Cal. 4th 881.  The Winter court ruled that a comic book depiction of the Winter Brothers, a musical group, where the group members’ respective likenesses were attached to worm-like bodies, had sufficient transformative elements to evoke First Amendment protection. Winter,  30 Cal. 4th 881.
    The protections for parody, however, are not absolute.  A New Jersey District Court, in an appropriation of likeness claim against an Elvis Presley impersonator, ruled that although the public interest in entertainment allows for the occasional good-faith imitation of a celebrity to achieve commentary or humor, one cannot appropriate the valuable attributes of another’s likeness without permission from those who hold the rights to that likeness. Estate of  Presley v. Ressen, 513 F.Supp. 1339 (1981).  Nor have all courts agreed that First Amendment protections are limited to parody and imitation.  The Comedy court emphasized that “the transformative elements or creative contributions that require First Amendment protections are not confined to parody, and can take many forms, from factual reporting to subtle social criticism.” Comedy,  25 Cal. 4th 387, 406.


You need to throw some more damn citation up in that joint

Our damn TA's mark our asses after every sentence if we don't have a damn cite I swear to God
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 25, 2005, 12:11:14 AM
Yeah I'm definitely going to enjoy my summer. LOL
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 25, 2005, 12:11:50 AM
You know the tragedy of it all  :'(... For the bar exam- they want you to unlearn the method of thinking that you spent three yrs mastering in law school... They want you to remove all theory out of your answers. Very few points are awarded for spotting issues...

As lame as it may sound..invest in the Gilbert Law audio tapes..they work wonders

Girl, between Gilbert's and E&E, I might have a tough time coming up with grocery money come finals!

LOL :D

Who you tellin


Aspen is gettin PAID off of nervous law students all over the nation
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 25, 2005, 12:12:32 AM


Sample Law School Writing:

Transformative Elements:
   The court is likely to find that the transformation of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s image into a bobbing head doll wearing a three-piece suit and carrying an automatic weapon is sufficient to warrant First Amendment protection.  A balancing test that weighs First Amendment interest against the right to publicity is used to determine if a work has sufficient transformative elements to receive First Amendment protection, and thus, bar a statutory claim.  The inquiry seeks to determine if  a work in question adds “significant creative elements so as to be transformed into something more than a mere celebrity likeness or imitation.”  Comedy,  25 Cal. 4th 387, 399.  A work is said to have significant transformative elements if the celebrity’s likeness is only a component of the raw materials from which the work is synthesized and if the product in question so transforms the likeness as to make that product primarily the artist’s expression rather than the likeness of the celebrity. Id. at p.407.
   Courts have often taken an ad-hoc approach to the determination of whether a work contains enough transformative elements as to warrant protection under the First Amendment.  However, the more creative elements the work contains, the less likely it is to infringe on economic rights and the right to publicity protected by Section 3344.  See Comedy III Productions, Inc. v. Saderup, 25 Cal. 4th 387;  Winter v. DC Comics, 30 Cal. 4th 881.  The Winter court ruled that a comic book depiction of the Winter Brothers, a musical group, where the group members’ respective likenesses were attached to worm-like bodies, had sufficient transformative elements to evoke First Amendment protection. Winter,  30 Cal. 4th 881.
    The protections for parody, however, are not absolute.  A New Jersey District Court, in an appropriation of likeness claim against an Elvis Presley impersonator, ruled that although the public interest in entertainment allows for the occasional good-faith imitation of a celebrity to achieve commentary or humor, one cannot appropriate the valuable attributes of another’s likeness without permission from those who hold the rights to that likeness. Estate of  Presley v. Ressen, 513 F.Supp. 1339 (1981).  Nor have all courts agreed that First Amendment protections are limited to parody and imitation.  The Comedy court emphasized that “the transformative elements or creative contributions that require First Amendment protections are not confined to parody, and can take many forms, from factual reporting to subtle social criticism.” Comedy,  25 Cal. 4th 387, 406.


You need to throw some more damn citation up in that joint

Our damn TA's mark our asses after every sentence if we don't have a damn cite I swear to God

That's my first draft.  I put the captions and citations in later.  For some reason, I am backwards because I prefer to say what I have to say and THEN caption it.  Wierd, I know, but one of the things you learn about LS is you gotta do any damn thing that works for you. 

EDIT: I actually have this little shorthand system that keeps me remembering which cases I pull *&^% from until I cite it.  I color-code.  Don't ask. :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 25, 2005, 12:14:24 AM
Aspen? The Ski Resort?  ???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on February 25, 2005, 12:16:00 AM
Aspen? The Ski Resort?  ???

No, honey, ski resorts will be the last thing on your mind in LS, unless you happen to be writing a memo on a tort action that happened there.

Aspen publishes supplements and robs students of their last pennies.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 25, 2005, 12:17:18 AM
I see....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 25, 2005, 08:58:31 AM
I haven't caught up with what's been posted overnight, but I have a question for you, Sands, and the rest of you 1L's that live in NY/NJ.

I keep hearing the Newark is dangerous and not a good place to go to LS or whatever.  There's a R-N thread on the LSD, and someone's making everyone paranoid.  I've personally never been to Newark, so although I don't buy into what's being said, is Newark that bad?  Here's what some cat posted last night:

The open house in March is at night. If I just park my car at the school garage, and get out of there as soon as the event is finished, will I still be safe? Should I bring a guy friend with me? I know I sound paranoid. I live in the Northeast, though I have never been to Newark, but I can't recall having heard anything positive about Newark.

I bet the subway at night is pretty dangerous too isn't it? Please help me with these questions!


Someone else, a non-Hispanic, non-Black was talking about how Newark is one huge ghetto full of Blacks and Hispanics and that it's really dangerous.  I took that as a horrible generalization, but your take on this would be a better word than some paranoid, uppity pre-law's who apparently has issues with minorities.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 25, 2005, 09:25:17 AM
Ladyday, SMU, Bubbazz, Sands, and lil_token, thanks for those amusing recounts of the Socratic method in your classes.  Please keep them coming.

I'm not scared or nervous about the Socratic method--more like very curious.  I've been reading LS Confidential, and they focus on that.  The only quasi-Socratic method classes I've had have been my German UG courses.  I enjoy speaking, so I'm not afraid of that.  I was just wondering how long professors wait before they start to rip 1L's apart.

One advantage I have is that I've been working in a law office for over 2 years.  It's a great transition from UG to LS.  I've done plenty of speaking at legal events, legal writing and research, and the attorneys I work with are very confident in my abilities.  This does not mean that I'M confident in the skills I've acquired, but at least I have a good foundation to build on. I feel truly blessed to have this job, and more so, to have your perspectives.

Thanks LSDers.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on February 25, 2005, 10:28:07 AM
I haven't caught up with what's been posted overnight, but I have a question for you, Sands, and the rest of you 1L's that live in NY/NJ.

I keep hearing the Newark is dangerous and not a good place to go to LS or whatever.  There's a R-N thread on the LSD, and someone's making everyone paranoid.  I've personally never been to Newark, so although I don't buy into what's being said, is Newark that bad?  Here's what some cat posted last night:

The open house in March is at night. If I just park my car at the school garage, and get out of there as soon as the event is finished, will I still be safe? Should I bring a guy friend with me? I know I sound paranoid. I live in the Northeast, though I have never been to Newark, but I can't recall having heard anything positive about Newark.

I bet the subway at night is pretty dangerous too isn't it? Please help me with these questions!


Someone else, a non-Hispanic, non-Black was talking about how Newark is one huge ghetto full of Blacks and Hispanics and that it's really dangerous.  I took that as a horrible generalization, but your take on this would be a better word than some paranoid, uppity pre-law's who apparently has issues with minorities.

Sands might not have a chance to answer this too quickly so I'll let u know what I know in the meantime. Yeah, Newark can be dangerous. But I think some non-people of color be exaggerating just a little bit b/c they're scared whenever they are in a place where they feel outnumbered. Do you just want to walk down the street by yourself at midnight? No. Will you be shot as soon as you step out of your place during the day? No. There is a high crime rate there, and you just want to be cautious (especially as a women) as you would be in any place. Most of the violence that occurs isn't random acts either, it's people who know each other. I don't think that it is anything to get to freaked out about, or to say you won't go there b/c of this. And from what I've been told the campus is pretty secure. I hope that helps a little. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 25, 2005, 11:35:17 AM
I got a chance to take a break from the kiddies today (we're having a high school Law day today) and answer this one right quick.

Newark is the Bricks.  This is true, nobody argues that. That's its rep.

Rutgers Newark is on a campus which is night and day from the city.  It has campus police, the whole 9.  Whoever made the comment about the minorities obviously has a problem being around minorities in mass numbers.  There are not a lot of white people who live in Newark, but there are a lot who work here.

I drive a BMW 3 series and I don't worry about parking it at the campus garage.  If somebody REALLY wants to jack it, they can do that anywhere.  Car jacking is not specific to Newark.  The days of New Jersey Drive are over.  The city has gotten a lot better as a whole, even though it still has a long way to go. 

Again, the campus is fine and you'll be ok living here.  I understand the concern for the question but its really not necessary.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 25, 2005, 06:58:41 PM
i park on the street in albany. my trunk was keyed the other week; it now says, "F*CK YOU"
gotta love albany.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 25, 2005, 07:11:15 PM
i park on the street in albany. my trunk was keyed the other week; it now says, "F*CK YOU"
gotta love albany.

:-\  that sucks.  do you think that was random? 


Thanks for your responses, Ladyday and Sands.
Title: (*&%#
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 27, 2005, 05:05:44 PM
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOO

What's good peeps?  Just got back from the North East BLSA conference in Rhode Island.  Yo, driving thru Connecticut is a boring ass experience. Staight up.  My sympathies to any of you who end up at Yale or UConn.  I think the tallest building was a Wal-Mart or something.

Anywayz, the conference was the jam. If this is any preview of how Nationals is going to be then there's no way I'm missing that.  The parties were off the meter, the sesssions were cool, and the networking was unbeatable.  Plus it was just luv seeing that many black law students doing their thing.  And all the lawyers and judges who came down were the icing on the cake.  It was definitely cool meeting the other area chapters.  Columbia held it down.  They damn near won every single competition. 

Moot Court Competition - Columbia
Fredrick Douglass Competition - Columbia
Trial Brief Competition - Columbia
Orator Competition - NYLS (ol' girl could argue her ass off, she was murderin cats)
Chapter of the year - Columbia
2nd place Chapter of the year - Harvard

So then we had the elections for the Regional Exec Board.  Director, Treasure, Secratary and the Sub Region Directors. The NE region is split up 4 sections where all the schools are grouped up at; NYC Metro is its own Sub region, New England is its own Sub Region, etc.
Each Sub Region has a Director who oversees what's going on in their neck of the woods. Well anyway, your boy ran for the NYC Metro Director, but I went up against a cat from Columbia and they were pretty much winning everything that night so it wasn't lookin good for the home team, but I got up there in front of the crowd, gave my speech and did the best I could.

And when the votes from the Region came back, they made it official.  Burning Sands is now the newly elected BLSA Director for the NYC Metro Region!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Score one for Rutgers!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shiveringjenny on February 27, 2005, 05:07:44 PM
wow, congrats.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on February 27, 2005, 05:24:06 PM
thats awesome kid! congrats!!

what exactly does the BLSA Director for the NYC metro region do?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on February 27, 2005, 05:44:26 PM
congrats.   ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on February 27, 2005, 06:58:05 PM
Sands, I already sent my congrats..but I'll say it again...


YOU GET IT BOY!

 8) 8) 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1LWhit on February 27, 2005, 10:12:00 PM
Congrats Sands!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on February 27, 2005, 10:21:07 PM
Good shiet Sands . . . yeah what does a BLSA Director for the NYC metro region do?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on February 28, 2005, 08:03:36 AM
Thanks fam.

That's a good question.  What I do is basically run all the Regional BLSA business for the 13 law schools in the NY Metro area. Plus, at some point during the fall semester, I have to travel to each school and sit in on their BLSA meetings and rap with the members of each chapter, see what's what, take any ?'s or concerns to the Head Director and stuff like that.  I also have to plan at least one activity, typically in the fall semester, that will bring all of the Metro chapters together.  This usually means a party.  Last semester, we all met up in lower Manhattan and had a good time at this club called Mission. A lot of the schools came out, it was a pretty good time. And then I also have to coordinate what they call "Judicial Friends" which is a basically an opportunity for law students to meet area judges, possibly get clerkships, stuff like that. So that's my job in a nutshell.  So any of you going to Law School in the New York City area will see me this fall at your school.

Oh yeah, Bubazzz - we are going to have one of the conferences in Upstate NY next year. They were talking about throwin it in Albany to get you guys more involved.  So be on the lookout!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 03, 2005, 12:59:14 PM
Socratic Story of the Day:

Prof:    Perhaps a hypo would better demonstrate...
Gunner:  [raises hand eagerly]
Prof:    [puzzled look] :-\ Yes?
Gunner:  Well I think that in your hypo I agree that the majority would be correct.
Prof:    Well before you can agree I have to give the hypo first.
Gunner:  Oh.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 03, 2005, 01:19:22 PM
Socratic NIGHTMARE of the day:

Token was to be on-call in K's today.  Last night, she looked on the syllabus, identified the assignment and read it.

Too bad that half-way through today's class, token realized that she had misread the syllabus and stopped ten pages short of the end of the assignment.  She had done a good deal of prepping for the part of the assignment she did read -- notes, book outline, casebrief, but, alas, the professor called on some other folks for that portion of the class discussion.  *&^%!  Token, panicking, decided that it would be better to do a piss poor job answering the questions than telling the whole class she's too damn blind to see the difference between pg. 550 and pg 560.  She scanned the matierial and did just that -- made a piss poor attempt to survive the Socratic grilling.

After class, in a piss poor effort to redeem herself in front of her favorite professor, she went to speak to him after class and explained what had happened.  She's an idiot, is blind, had to skim the cases while in class, etc.  Surprisingly enough, the professor told her she had done quite well for being disoriented and agreed to grant her another day on call. 

Whew!  Glad I don't go to Harvard.  My ass would be grass.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 03, 2005, 01:24:17 PM
good sh!t
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on March 03, 2005, 04:24:48 PM
one of the worst i've seen:

Prof: ok, so why do u think that is? ::: points to some poor soul :::
Poor Soul 1: ::: silence :::
Prof: ok, what about u? ::: points to another poor soul :::
Poor Soul 2: well, because the courts look to good-faith
Prof: good answer, too bad its Bullsh!t ::: points to the first poor soul :::
Prof: ok, you've had enough time to think about it, so lets have it, give me this great answer that you had a minute or so to think about
Poor Soul 1: ::: silence :::
 ::: silence for 1 minute ::: (thats a long time when ur sitting there)
Prof: alright, lets have it Greg ::: points to the f'n gunner that always has his hand up :::
Greg: (gives some long explanation detailing the correct answer)
Prof: ::: points to poor soul 1 ::: now in 2 years, ur gonna have to pay him $200 an hour for that, cause u obviously won't be able to do it


The prof. was on a rampage that day, it was brutal. thank god i had gotten called on the day before.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 06, 2005, 02:13:46 PM
new poll
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shaz on March 06, 2005, 06:55:52 PM
Sands,

CONGRATS! Damn good job!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 06, 2005, 10:42:51 PM
thanks yo, I just do what I can
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1LWhit on March 07, 2005, 10:03:00 AM
Has anyone ever studied so late at the law school, that they just ended up sleeping in a classroom?  Well guess what...I, along with my study partner, was here ALL night and ALL morning!!!  We just had to perfect our Appellate Briefs!  Why am I doing this to myself?  Around 6 am we just decided to go get breakfast at McDonalds.  Around 7:45 I put my head down for 45mins or so...and then I rolled into class at 9am.  I typically wear business casual clothes everyday (along with flawless makeup).  It was a shock when I showed up wearing sweats and without any makeup.

Do any of the other 1Ls do this?  Are we taking things too seriously???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 07, 2005, 11:08:31 AM
Has anyone ever studied so late at the law school, that they just ended up sleeping in a classroom?  Well guess what...I, along with my study partner, was here ALL night and ALL morning!!!  We just had to perfect our Appellate Briefs!  Why am I doing this to myself?  Around 6 am we just decided to go get breakfast at McDonalds.  Around 7:45 I put my head down for 45mins or so...and then I rolled into class at 9am. 


Did you brush your teeth? take a bath? and what did you have at Mickey D's?






I typically wear business casual clothes everyday (along with flawless makeup).  It was a shock when I showed up wearing sweats and without any makeup.

Do any of the other 1Ls do this?  Are we taking things too seriously???

Did any of your classmates say anything?


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 07, 2005, 07:52:41 PM
No we're not taking this too seriously. Some of us are not taking this seriously enough in my opinion.  I'm starting to get back on my hustle.  I rounded up a group of us last night and we just went thru the entire Civ Pro class from Day 1 up until now.  We were there for an entire night and ended up strolling over to IHOP's at some crazy time in the morning.

You gotta look at it like this...you only go to Law School once.  First year grades are everything.  Your job as a 2L and as a lawyer are based off of your first year grades.  Why would you NOT put in the work now?  You got 2 more years to slack off after this.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 08, 2005, 08:33:56 AM
No we're not taking this too seriously. Some of us are not taking this seriously enough in my opinion.  I'm starting to get back on my hustle.  I rounded up a group of us last night and we just went thru the entire Civ Pro class from Day 1 up until now.  We were there for an entire night and ended up strolling over to IHOP's at some crazy time in the morning.

You gotta look at it like this...you only go to Law School once.  First year grades are everything.  Your job as a 2L and as a lawyer are based off of your first year grades.  Why would you NOT put in the work now?  You got 2 more years to slack off after this.

Who you telling? I love it when people keep asking me what I'm doing for spring break. Am I going anywhere? Yeah, to my local library, then late at night I'll come home and curl into the fetal position until the next morning, where it begins again.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 09, 2005, 08:48:54 AM
Socratic Story of the day:

From Con Law


guy:  But the Virginia statute here is not in violation of the 14th amendment. 
girl:  I disagree, I think it goes directly against the 14th amendment.
guy:  But Virginia applies it equally to both blacks and whites therefore it does not violate the equal protection clause.
girl:  Well if you look on p. 801, a Virginia judge supporting the State statute said "almighy God created the races, white black, yellow malay and red, and he placed them on seperate contienents...the fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend the races to mix."  ...You're trying to tell me that's not a violation of the 14th amendment?!

[class busts out laughin]
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 09, 2005, 09:11:23 AM
Socratic Story of the day:

From Con Law


guy:  But the Virginia statute here is not in violation of the 14th amendment. 
girl:  I disagree, I think it goes directly against the 14th amendment.
guy:  But Virginia applies it equally to both blacks and whites therefore it does not violate the equal protection clause.
girl:  Well if you look on p. 801, a Virginia judge supporting the State statute said "almighy God created the races, white black, yellow malay and red, and he placed them on seperate contienents...the fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend the races to mix."  ...You're trying to tell me that's not a violation of the 14th amendment?!

[class busts out laughin]


LOL!

was the guy white?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 09, 2005, 09:15:04 AM
come on now 8)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 09, 2005, 12:50:55 PM
1L's what do you guys think of this situation? I know it's regarding the B-schools, but do you think what those students did was unethical?

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=564926

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/03/08/hacker.biz.schools.reut/index.html
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 09, 2005, 12:55:21 PM
1L's what do you guys think of this situation? I know it's regarding the B-schools, but do you think what those students did was unethical?

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=564926

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/03/08/hacker.biz.schools.reut/index.html


off with their heads!!   >:(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 09, 2005, 12:56:37 PM
Who cares.  Damn B-School kids.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 09, 2005, 12:57:25 PM
Really? I think the punishments were rather harsh...It's not like they changed anything in the system, but on the same note they could have waited like everyone else.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 09, 2005, 12:59:46 PM
Yes, I believe it was unethical, and not only that, just plain stupid. Any type of hacking is unethical within itself. Then their plain stupidity justifies the denials. Since the admissions decisions were already made, they should have just waited.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: taterstol on March 09, 2005, 01:00:13 PM
Sucks to be them. It's hard for me to say for sure that, had I been in the same situation, I woulda backed off. But looking at it from out here it's pretty obvious that it was unethical and they shoulda just waited.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 09, 2005, 01:01:03 PM
I think it was extremely unethical.  If they're trying to hack into the system without even being students, who's to say they won't try worse when they're actual students?

Typical of such individuals to think they're above the system and every other applicant.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 09, 2005, 01:03:29 PM
I think it was extremely unethical.  If they're trying to hack into the system without even being students, who's to say they won't try worse when they're actual students?

Typical of such individuals to think they're above the system and every other applicant.

Good point.

But i don't think it was a case where they thought they were above the system, just overzealous, immature, careless, and stupid.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 09, 2005, 01:05:16 PM
Like I said, damn B-School kids.  Although I bet a bunch of you f*ckers on here would do the same thing with all these lame ass "I HAVE A BLAH BLAH BLAH AND A BLAH BLAH BLAH WHAT DO YOU NON ADCOM, FELLOW APPLICANTS, NO AUTORITY WHATSOEVER HAVIN' PEOPLE THINK MY CHANCES ARE" posts.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 09, 2005, 01:09:29 PM
I think it was extremely unethical.  If they're trying to hack into the system without even being students, who's to say they won't try worse when they're actual students?

Typical of such individuals to think they're above the system and every other applicant.

Good point.

But i don't think it was a case where they thought they were above the system, just overzealous, immature, careless, and stupid.

I think they thought they were above the system if their overzealous/anxious asses couldn't wait for the postman to deliver their decisions like the thousands of other LS applicants in the nation.  I don't care if they're trying to hack into Cooley or HLS's systems, they still thought that they could get around some part of the application process.  Plain stupid.  I'm glad they got caught.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 09, 2005, 01:10:25 PM
I get it. PErsonally I wouldn't do it b/c I'm not trying to have that on my record. Shoot I'm trying to pay off all my parking tickets so the bar doesn't have any reason to deny me LOL.

Hey 1Ls, what are you taking this semester and how are your classes coming along?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on March 09, 2005, 01:13:30 PM
Definitely unethical...I don't understand why people feel that they're above the law because they lack patience..I bet they'll try to get together and file a class action suit based on the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act...but even with that..they really don't have a leg to stand on
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 09, 2005, 06:54:12 PM
More Chronicles of the Socratic Method:

Jurisprudence:

student: Well I think that...[goes on for 5 minutes about what they think]
prof:  So your argument is [paraphrases what the student said]

[long silence...student thinks about what they said]

student: Well yeah 
prof:  And that's an argument to you? Do you actually believe that? 

[class falls out of their chairs laughin]


----------

Civ Pro


Student:   Well I think that....[student goes on for 5 minutes about what they think]
[professor cuts him off in mid sentence 5 minutes into his dissertation]
Prof:   So...IN SHORT you're saying [paraphrases where student was going]
Student:  Ummm...yeah I think that the court is correct here.
Prof:  You see how much easier it was to say that?  Try that next time and we can cut out the 20 minute dialogue.
Student:  Oh, well I was enjoying our dialogue.
Prof:  Well that makes one of us.

[class starts clapping in applause of Professor]
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on March 10, 2005, 09:19:59 PM
I just had the worst socratic performance of my law school career. It happened in con law - i was called on the day before and nailed everything i was asked. Swamped with loads of criminal and property, i scanned the cases we were assigned for con law, not really taking notes, but thinkin there was no way i would be called on 2 days in a row. LOL - yeah, i was wrong. here it is:

Prof: so continuing our discussion on the equal protection clause, what happened with mathews v. diaz? hmmmm, bubz did a splendid job yesterday, why dont u tell us?
Bubz: (terror in his face) um, well it concerned....(just reading the first couple lines of the case)
Prof: ok, and what was the standard of review?
Bubz: uuuuuummmmmmmmm, the court...........uuuuuuuuuummm mmmmmmm, well i dont think they articulated one.
Prof: well ok, they didn't outright say one, but its pretty clear which one they used. well, what was the holding?
Bubz: the holding was....... uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Prof: have u even read the case?
Bubz: yeah, but i had trouble understanding why the court did what they did
(u have to understand, i am panicking right now, totally no idea what this case was about)
Prof: well, what the hell did the court do?
Bubz: (quickly turns to the last page of the case and reads the holding)
Prof: thanks, i think we can all read. ok, thats it. we're gonna come back to u tomorrow, and u will tell us not only what the court did in this case, but what the court did in tomorrow's cases, as well as the reason, and every other aspect of those cases.
Bubz: (just bows his head in shame)

The next day i rocked out and answered every question he asked.

Oh man, i can't tell u how horrible that was.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 11, 2005, 06:58:56 AM
yo son, happens to the best of us.  you win some you lose some.  I think as long as you win more than you lose then there's some beacon of hope...

At this point in the semester your classmates know that you're on top of your game already from all your past comments, and everybody knows that none of us are above an ass whuppin from a professor. 

I find that when I don't get enough sleep I can't talk in class the next day.  I struggle to put my arguments together and I forget stuff that I have in my briefs.  Yesterday for example, Prof in Civ Pro is talking about the infamous Pennoyer v. Neff and was asking the ways that the court can have juridiction.  The two answers he was looking for, Presence (In personam, In Rem or Quasi In Rem) or Consent.  We had covered the presence and he was asking for the Consent.  I had seen him the day before in his office and he had told me consent.  I had Consent written down 5 times in my brief.  He asked the question and I must have looked at the damn word Consent a dozen times while the rest of the class was flipping thru pages trying to find it.  Consent was the answer everybody was looking for.  There was a long silence for like half a minute while everybody was trying to figure it out, and there it was, the answer sitting right in front of me, smackin me in the face talking about "hey idiot, here I am!" and I was too f*ckin sleepy to put 2 and 2 together.

Finally after more silence the Prof just gets tired of waiting and gives us the answer..."Well folks the other way the court can find jurisdiction is thru Consent" and THEN I realize, oh yeah, Consent.  There it is right there.  I knew that...

So for me, if my brain is not firing on all cylinders, you can forget about words of f*ckin wisdom coming out of my mouth. I might get the first answer right, but I'm not going to articulate it well and I sure as hell am not going to be able to think fast enough to get the next series of questions that always follow.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 11, 2005, 09:49:12 AM
It's 11:45. Officially Spring Break. Ladyday has already begun drinking.........
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 11, 2005, 10:28:10 AM
wait for me
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 11, 2005, 11:23:51 AM
have fun 1Ls. My break officially started today as well and I'm flying out this EVENING YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll bring some wine back for you guys hehehehe.

BTW: School sucks.  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on March 11, 2005, 11:40:22 AM
have fun 1Ls. My break officially started today as well and I'm flying out this EVENING YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll bring some wine back for you guys hehehehe.

BTW: School sucks.  ;)

Good riddance!  :-*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on March 11, 2005, 09:47:45 PM
we gots break also!!!

cant wait to do my con law outline without having to prepare for classes!! woo hoo!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 12, 2005, 10:48:57 AM
New Poll
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on March 12, 2005, 11:22:55 AM
New Poll

What are the downsides?

What are the upsides?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 12, 2005, 01:56:04 PM
New Poll

What are the downsides?

What are the upsides?

Downsides are numerous.  The only upside is the obvious instant gratification of having sex. You will see that person everyday for 3 years.  So if things are good then no problem.  However if things go bad, which they have a tendancy of doing when your primary function is studying law 24/7, then it could be a big problem. It has the potential of leading to a lot of drama in the future.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 12, 2005, 03:39:43 PM
New Poll

What are the downsides?

What are the upsides?

Downsides are numerous.  The only upside is the obvious instant gratification of having sex. You will see that person everyday for 3 years.  So if things are good then no problem.  However if things go bad, which they have a tendancy of doing when your primary function is studying law 24/7, then it could be a big problem. It has the potential of leading to a lot of drama in the future.

and yet still, all u muffakas vote yes. tsk tsk.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 13, 2005, 01:02:11 PM
yeah, there's no hope for the future  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 13, 2005, 01:52:31 PM
"smash"?   i've never heard that one before.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 13, 2005, 02:02:31 PM
welcome to the East coast
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 06:37:58 PM
As for the poll . . ..downsides are you are looking at this person everyday for at least the rest of this year . . .that is a problem because I haven't slept with anyone in my law school class and I am sick of looking at these people. 

Positives . . .there are none.  Not only are you taking away some serious study time (if this is done the right way, and you end up wanting more . . . .and more . . . .) but you are also in for major distactions.

Don't do it.

I hope all the 1Ls are enjoying Spring Break.  Not only do I have to catch up on oultining, I have a brief to write, and I have exactly three sentences. 

Sands, you are right.  My legal writing teacher makes us cite after every sentence. 

Back to the K outline. . .for real this time.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 13, 2005, 07:10:10 PM
SMU speaks!!! 

We are honored.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 07:16:25 PM
SMU speaks!!!

We are honored.

So you got jokes, huh, Burning?  But I still love you.

Unlike some people, I have not even been lurking I am drowning so much in law school.  My eyes are tired from reading all the time, and I actually have my "Spring break" planned down to the hour in hopes to at least finish a rough draft of my moot court brief, take a practice civ pro, contracts and property exam, and work on civ pro and contracts outlines.

Working on defenses to contract formation.  I still love contracts . . . .. I take it you still hate civ pro. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 13, 2005, 07:49:49 PM
SMU speaks!!!

We are honored.

So you got jokes, huh, Burning?  But I still love you.

Unlike some people, I have not even been lurking I am drowning so much in law school.  My eyes are tired from reading all the time, and I actually have my "Spring break" planned down to the hour in hopes to at least finish a rough draft of my moot court brief, take a practice civ pro, contracts and property exam, and work on civ pro and contracts outlines.

Working on defenses to contract formation.  I still love contracts . . . .. I take it you still hate civ pro. 


So much reading your eyes hurt huh . . .  how many pages do you read a night?

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 08:00:12 PM
I couldn't count.  Probably around 100-150 pages once class is actually over for the day (at 3:00 pm).  Its really bad when the research starts for legal writing.  That's when the total goes up to about 200.  But its not just reading.  Its analysis, reading, synthesis, and making conclusions that fit under the law. The reading is the easy part.  Its just that by the time you are done reading, you have no eyeball power to do the analysis, synthesis, and make the conclusions.  You just want to go to bed.  :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 13, 2005, 08:09:43 PM
I couldn't count.  Probably around 100-150 pages once class is actually over for the day (at 3:00 pm).  Its really bad when the research starts for legal writing.  That's when the total goes up to about 200.  But its not just reading.  Its analysis, reading, synthesis, and making conclusions that fit under the law. The reading is the easy part.  Its just that by the time you are done reading, you have no eyeball power to do the analysis, synthesis, and make the conclusions.  You just want to go to bed.  :-\


Yeah, when I was Pre Law I had to read the vague cases and then re-read to analyze and stuff. But wasnt no where near 100 pages per night. I take it you have to read mighty fast just keep up. How do you find time for pilates with all this work?

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 08:14:42 PM
For me, it wasn't pilates .  . . .it was yoga.  And I have reluctantly abandoned my exercise routine until the brief is due.  Besides, I walk, on average, about three miles a day anyway. This should keep me in shape until Mar. 29th.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 13, 2005, 08:19:52 PM
For me, it wasn't pilates .  . . .it was yoga.  And I have reluctantly abandoned my exercise routine until the brief is due.  Besides, I walk, on average, about three miles a day anyway. This should keep me in shape until Mar. 29th.

Yoga is so passé.

Pilates > Yoga

Nonetheless, which school do you attend? and how do you get used to reading so much and reading so fast?


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 08:26:22 PM


For me, it wasn't pilates .  . . .it was yoga.  And I have reluctantly abandoned my exercise routine until the brief is due.  Besides, I walk, on average, about three miles a day anyway. This should keep me in shape until Mar. 29th.

Yoga is so passé.

Pilates > Yoga

Nonetheless, which school do you attend? and how do you get used to reading so much and reading so fast?



SMU JD 2007 ==  Southern Methodist University Dedman School of Law.

As for getting used to the reading . . .. you just do it. You can't do it fast. The worst thing you can do is rush it.  You have to take your time if you're going to get anything useful out of it.  I don't read fast, I read thoroughly.  So it can easily take 7-9 hours out of my evening to do my reading, synthesis, and analysis.  I then draw the conclusions in my sleep . . . .or the next morning while eating breakfast.

Then, sometime, I have to start outlining . . .which is where the breaks come in between classes.  And what I will spend all of my time doing after the brief is due. 

The work never ends.  . . . .where are you in the law school process, Victor?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 13, 2005, 08:45:58 PM


For me, it wasn't pilates .  . . .it was yoga.  And I have reluctantly abandoned my exercise routine until the brief is due.  Besides, I walk, on average, about three miles a day anyway. This should keep me in shape until Mar. 29th.

Yoga is so passé.

Pilates > Yoga

Nonetheless, which school do you attend? and how do you get used to reading so much and reading so fast?



SMU JD 2007 ==  Southern Methodist University Dedman School of Law.

As for getting used to the reading . . .. you just do it. You can't do it fast. The worst thing you can do is rush it.  You have to take your time if you're going to get anything useful out of it.  I don't read fast, I read thoroughly.  So it can easily take 7-9 hours out of my evening to do my reading, synthesis, and analysis.  I then draw the conclusions in my sleep . . . .or the next morning while eating breakfast.

Then, sometime, I have to start outlining . . .which is where the breaks come in between classes.  And what I will spend all of my time doing after the brief is due. 

The work never ends.  . . . .where are you in the law school process, Victor?

So the trick is immersion huh? Sounds like the whole process has become second nature to you.

I'm going to take the June LSAT and apply in the fall.



Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 08:53:07 PM
you have to immerse yourself in the material.  There is no other way to get it done.  If you get distracted, it can take less than a day to get behind . . . .I am not joking.

Good luck with the process.  When you start law school, I'll be a 3L!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But now, I am still outlining defenses to contract formation. ???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 13, 2005, 09:05:22 PM
you have to immerse yourself in the material.  There is no other way to get it done.  If you get distracted, it can take less than a day to get behind . . . .I am not joking.

Good luck with the process.  When you start law school, I'll be a 3L!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But now, I am still outlining defenses to contract formation. ???

You ever got behind in the readings/work?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 09:19:11 PM
Get behind on reading in law school== strategically placed all nighters to playt catch up.

Yes, I've been behind.  I was sick a few weeks ago, so now I am playing catch up. I try not to get behind on the actual class reading--I'll let outlining go before I skip reading for class, because by now most of the outlining is done in class anyway.  If you get behind on class reading, you run the risk of saying it isn't important so I wont read it, and that reading just might have one of the three cases that the prof expects you to know inside and out for the final.  Just not a good habit to get into.   

The outlining I'm doing now is from before I fixed my personal system.  Plus, I need to start making flowcharts for finals. 

Like I said, the work never ends. . . .

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shiveringjenny on March 13, 2005, 09:27:26 PM
Get behind on reading in law school== strategically placed all nighters to playt catch up.

Yes, I've been behind. I was sick a few weeks ago, so now I am playing catch up. I try not to get behind on the actual class reading--I'll let outlining go before I skip reading for class, because by now most of the outlining is done in class anyway. If you get behind on class reading, you run the risk of saying it isn't important so I wont read it, and that reading just might have one of the three cases that the prof expects you to know inside and out for the final. Just not a good habit to get into.

The outlining I'm doing now is from before I fixed my personal system. Plus, I need to start making flowcharts for finals.

Like I said, the work never ends. . . .



sometimes i wonder if i'll be able to hack it in law school. i'm too easily distracted to do things that i'm supposed to, like read every night. i'm trying to get into the habit of actually doing work.

i hope i'll be as hard-working as you when i get there.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 13, 2005, 09:40:39 PM
smujd2007 do you have a study partner? Good luck catching up.

It's bed time for me. Goodnight 1L'ers.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 09:46:33 PM
smujd2007 do you have a study partner? Good luck catching up.

It's bed time for me. Goodnight 1L'ers.



Study partners are okay, but they are no substitute . . .. NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE TELLS YOU for struggling through the material on your own.  I have a group that I meet with sometimes, but last semester i think the study group gave me a false sense of security -- I thought I knew what they knew but I didn't. 

In fact, when I do study groups, I'm studying even more.  So, its your call.  I don't recommend them for people who like to figure out things by themselves or for people who are easily intimidated. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 13, 2005, 09:59:06 PM
Get behind on reading in law school== strategically placed all nighters to playt catch up.

Yes, I've been behind. I was sick a few weeks ago, so now I am playing catch up. I try not to get behind on the actual class reading--I'll let outlining go before I skip reading for class, because by now most of the outlining is done in class anyway. If you get behind on class reading, you run the risk of saying it isn't important so I wont read it, and that reading just might have one of the three cases that the prof expects you to know inside and out for the final. Just not a good habit to get into.

The outlining I'm doing now is from before I fixed my personal system. Plus, I need to start making flowcharts for finals.

Like I said, the work never ends. . . .



sometimes i wonder if i'll be able to hack it in law school. i'm too easily distracted to do things that i'm supposed to, like read every night. i'm trying to get into the habit of actually doing work.

i hope i'll be as hard-working as you when i get there.

Oh, Jenny . . . . didnt know that was you for a minute. Why the name change? I get distracted easily too myself.

Youre still in college? Whats your major?

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shiveringjenny on March 13, 2005, 10:01:03 PM
Get behind on reading in law school== strategically placed all nighters to playt catch up.

Yes, I've been behind. I was sick a few weeks ago, so now I am playing catch up. I try not to get behind on the actual class reading--I'll let outlining go before I skip reading for class, because by now most of the outlining is done in class anyway. If you get behind on class reading, you run the risk of saying it isn't important so I wont read it, and that reading just might have one of the three cases that the prof expects you to know inside and out for the final. Just not a good habit to get into.

The outlining I'm doing now is from before I fixed my personal system. Plus, I need to start making flowcharts for finals.

Like I said, the work never ends. . . .



sometimes i wonder if i'll be able to hack it in law school. i'm too easily distracted to do things that i'm supposed to, like read every night. i'm trying to get into the habit of actually doing work.

i hope i'll be as hard-working as you when i get there.

Oh, Jenny . . . . didnt know that was you for a minute. Why the name change? I get distracted easily too myself.

Youre still in college? Whats your major?



i'm just bored.

yeah, but i'm a senior double-majoring in neuroscience and media studies. i'm taking the june LSAT, graduating in feb 2006 and going to law school fall 2006.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 13, 2005, 10:05:45 PM
Get behind on reading in law school== strategically placed all nighters to playt catch up.

Yes, I've been behind. I was sick a few weeks ago, so now I am playing catch up. I try not to get behind on the actual class reading--I'll let outlining go before I skip reading for class, because by now most of the outlining is done in class anyway. If you get behind on class reading, you run the risk of saying it isn't important so I wont read it, and that reading just might have one of the three cases that the prof expects you to know inside and out for the final. Just not a good habit to get into.

The outlining I'm doing now is from before I fixed my personal system. Plus, I need to start making flowcharts for finals.

Like I said, the work never ends. . . .



sometimes i wonder if i'll be able to hack it in law school. i'm too easily distracted to do things that i'm supposed to, like read every night. i'm trying to get into the habit of actually doing work.

i hope i'll be as hard-working as you when i get there.

Oh, Jenny . . . . didnt know that was you for a minute. Why the name change? I get distracted easily too myself.

Youre still in college? Whats your major?



i'm just bored.

yeah, but i'm a senior double-majoring in neuroscience and media studies. i'm taking the june LSAT, graduating in feb 2006 and going to law school fall 2006.


Neuroscience?? WOWZIE!!!!!

Why no med school?

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shiveringjenny on March 13, 2005, 10:09:25 PM
the schooling takes too long, the career is fraught with danger of malpractice suits, and i've come to the realization that i enjoy neither science or nor helping sick people.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 13, 2005, 10:10:08 PM
Early on, the Socratic Method will scare you enough to start a ritual.  Then, if that doesn't work, your first semester grades will send you into a self imposed jail cell--a carrel in the library.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on March 13, 2005, 10:21:35 PM
Hmm... interesting photos JLF...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 14, 2005, 12:01:25 AM
Early on, the Socratic Method will scare you enough to start a ritual.  Then, if that doesn't work, your first semester grades will send you into a self imposed jail cell--a carrel in the library.


I'm still there right now, and I haven't recovered fully.  I had to actually call a study group a few weeks back to get myself to get back into the habit of studying.  Last semester I studied like no 1L has ever studied before.  Every night, closing down the library, 12 to 15 hours on saturdays and sundays easy, got into the notes after the cases and pulled the law review articles off the shelf that the notes recommended and read those too...I wish I could say that all of that = good grades, but the truth of the matter is that your understanding does not = good grades.  Its your ability to write the exam for that professor that = good grades.

I have a thorough understanding of the stubstantive law in each class. The trick is to put that on paper how the prof likes it.

I have to admit I haven't even come CLOSE to studying like that this semester.  After I saw my first grade back was a B I went into cardiac arrest and suffered a mild stroke, had a seizure, a nervous breakdown, heard voices, developed a multiple personality named LeeRoy, and when I was done with all that, I did the usual 1L ritual...I drank myself into a stupor. I've never worked this hard for a B in my entire life.  But that's law school for ya.

SMU you're inspiring me to get my act back together and jump back on the wagon.  This semester is almost over. Time to get down to biz.

Civ Pro is actually my strongest class. I can't even front.  Its to the point now where I hear an issue and the rule # pops into my head that applies:  "hmmm...that sounds like a Rule 19 compulsory joinder to me." 

Law school...look what it's done to us...we need help.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 14, 2005, 10:36:00 AM
Early on, the Socratic Method will scare you enough to start a ritual. Then, if that doesn't work, your first semester grades will send you into a self imposed jail cell--a carrel in the library.


I'm still there right now, and I haven't recovered fully. I had to actually call a study group a few weeks back to get myself to get back into the habit of studying. Last semester I studied like no 1L has ever studied before. Every night, closing down the library, 12 to 15 hours on saturdays and sundays easy, got into the notes after the cases and pulled the law review articles off the shelf that the notes recommended and read those too...I wish I could say that all of that = good grades, but the truth of the matter is that your understanding does not = good grades. Its your ability to write the exam for that professor that = good grades.

I have a thorough understanding of the stubstantive law in each class. The trick is to put that on paper how the prof likes it.

I have to admit I haven't even come CLOSE to studying like that this semester. After I saw my first grade back was a B I went into cardiac arrest and suffered a mild stroke, had a seizure, a nervous breakdown, heard voices, developed a multiple personality named LeeRoy, and when I was done with all that, I did the usual 1L ritual...I drank myself into a stupor. I've never worked this hard for a B in my entire life. But that's law school for ya.

SMU you're inspiring me to get my act back together and jump back on the wagon. This semester is almost over. Time to get down to biz.

Civ Pro is actually my strongest class. I can't even front. Its to the point now where I hear an issue and the rule # pops into my head that applies: "hmmm...that sounds like a Rule 19 compulsory joinder to me."

Law school...look what it's done to us...we need help.

Glad I could inspire you. 

Don't get me wrong, I've had my weak moments.  I've done some crazy things this semester that I never would have done had I not been under so much stress and been so frustrated with myself and my performance on my exams. 

Burning Sands, I saw my first C ever and it was not pleasant.  And you are so right about studying. It is not about how much law you know.  I went off on some really intense tangents on my property exam that I received absolutely no credit for. Not because the law was wrong, but because I didn't apply the law the way the professor wanted me to. . . This is very frustrating to most people in law school, and despite what Regal and others say about "being ready,"  you will stress out.  The people who made A's are still stressed out.

Law school is just hard.  Period.  We just have to immerse ourselves in our textbooks, Westlaw, Lexis Nexis, and pray.  Emphasis on the word pray.  (and if you are not religious and this offends you, then too bad). 

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 14, 2005, 03:23:58 PM
As we speak I have my raggedy ass in the law school now knockin out the Civ Pro reading for next week.  I'll try to tackle Con Law tomorrow and Wednesday and then devote the rest of spring break to LRW.

Remember the good ol' days when Spring Break was fun?

I was rappin with another 1L last night and we have come to the concrete conclusion that if you're goin to law school to be filthy rich (a good % of a recent poll voted for this) then you are in this thing for the wrong reasons. There are WAAAAAAAAAAAY easier ways to make 6 figure salaries.

SMU - Whatchu know about International Shoe??  Challenge!! I'm callin you out Civ Pro woman!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 14, 2005, 05:08:50 PM
Oooooooh.. . .just as I'm about to leave the library because my back hurts from being curled up at a table all day, and the sun is starting to set. 

We actually did International Shoe on the first day of class this semester. . . .or at least the first week, I think.  All I remember about International Shoe right of the top of my head is that it set the standard for the minimum contacts analysis.  Before international shoe, when determining whether a plaintiff could get personal jurisdiction over a defendant, courts applied a test that stated that in order to have jurisdiction over the defendant, there had to be substancial contacts between the defendant and the forum state.  However, using this test allowed a lot of defendants to get off in lawsuits just because the plaintiff couldn't prove substancial contacts.  Then, the court, in international shoe, adopted the minimum contacts standard, which allows a plaintiff to show that the defendant has minimum contacts with the state.  This test broadened how a plaintiff could get control over a defendant. 

In this case:  The plaintiff was the state of Washington suing the defendant, a company that sold shoes door to door through the use of salesmen.


I know that's really sketchy but a sista is starting to get a little lightheaded.  Going to eat with a friend . . .be back later.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 14, 2005, 07:52:46 PM
Yeah SMUJD I noticed a little huff and puff in the comments you made. Drink water, replenish your body with fluids. I hope youre vegan. Eating meat will only stymie your work efforts. Listen to KRS-One's "Beef."
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 14, 2005, 08:18:48 PM
[KRS-One]

Beef, what a relief
When will this poisonous product cease?
This is another public service announcement
You can believe it, or you can doubt it
Let us begin now with the cow
The way it gets to your plate and how
The cow doesn't grow fast enough for man
So through his greed he makes a faster plan
He has drugs to make the cow grow quicker
Through the stress the cow gets sicker
Twenty-one different drugs are pumped
Into the cow in one big lump
So just before it dies, it cries
In the slaughterhouse full of germs and flies
Off with the head, they pack it, drain it, and cart it
And there it is, in your local supermarket
Red and bloody, a corpse, neatly packed
And you wonder about heart attacks?
Come on now man let's be for real
You are what you eat is the way I feel
But, the Food and Drug Administration
Will tell you meat is the perfect combination
See cows live under fear and stress
Trying to think what's gonna happen next
Fear and stress can become a part of you
In your cells and blood, this is true
So when the cow is killed, believe it
You preserve those cells, you freeze it
Thaw it out with the blood and season it
Then you sit down and begin eatin it
In your body, it's structure becomes your structure
All the fear and stress of another
Any drug is addictive by any name
Even drugs in meat, they are the same
The FDA has America strung out
On drugs in beef no doubt
So if you think that what I say is a bunch of crock
Tell yourself you're gonna try and stop
Eatin meat and you'll see you can't compete
It's the number one drug on the street
Not crack, cause that was made for just black
But brown beef, for all American teeth
Life brings life and death brings death
Keep on eatin the dead and what's left
Absolute disease and negative
Read the book 'How to Eat to Live'
By Elijah Muhammad, it's a brown paperback
For anybody, either white or black
See how many cows must be pumped up fatter
How many rats gotta fall in the batter
How many chickens that eat *&^% you eat
How much high blood pressure you get from pig feet
See you'll consume, the FDA could care less
They'll sell you donkey meat and say it's
FRESH! For nineteen-ninety, you SUCKERS
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 14, 2005, 09:20:58 PM
Sorry Victor.  I have to have beef.  It thickens the blood.  Its beef or iron supplements, or sometimes both.  My doctor says so.

I just had beef fajitas at On The Border . . . .and chicken tortilla soup, and a warm brownie sundae . . . .. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .   

That's how you eat when you've been in the library for 8 hours straight. 

And I am too stuffed to study for the rest of the night, so there.  I'm taking the night off.  Its Spring Break, darn it!  :P

However, I know I will regret this later.  >:(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 14, 2005, 09:38:48 PM
Hmmm . . . interesting meal SMUJD . . . .

You know what, I'll like to know what all you 1L'er eat on a typical day, because food fuels the body.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 14, 2005, 09:43:41 PM
[KRS-One]

Beef, what a relief
When will this poisonous product cease?
This is another public service announcement
You can believe it, or you can doubt it
Let us begin now with the cow
The way it gets to your plate and how
The cow doesn't grow fast enough for man
So through his greed he makes a faster plan
He has drugs to make the cow grow quicker
Through the stress the cow gets sicker
Twenty-one different drugs are pumped
Into the cow in one big lump
So just before it dies, it cries
In the slaughterhouse full of germs and flies
Off with the head, they pack it, drain it, and cart it
And there it is, in your local supermarket
Red and bloody, a corpse, neatly packed
And you wonder about heart attacks?
Come on now man let's be for real
You are what you eat is the way I feel
But, the Food and Drug Administration
Will tell you meat is the perfect combination
See cows live under fear and stress
Trying to think what's gonna happen next
Fear and stress can become a part of you
In your cells and blood, this is true
So when the cow is killed, believe it
You preserve those cells, you freeze it
Thaw it out with the blood and season it
Then you sit down and begin eatin it
In your body, it's structure becomes your structure
All the fear and stress of another
Any drug is addictive by any name
Even drugs in meat, they are the same
The FDA has America strung out
On drugs in beef no doubt
So if you think that what I say is a bunch of crock
Tell yourself you're gonna try and stop
Eatin meat and you'll see you can't compete
It's the number one drug on the street
Not crack, cause that was made for just black
But brown beef, for all American teeth
Life brings life and death brings death
Keep on eatin the dead and what's left
Absolute disease and negative
Read the book 'How to Eat to Live'
By Elijah Muhammad, it's a brown paperback
For anybody, either white or black
See how many cows must be pumped up fatter
How many rats gotta fall in the batter
How many chickens that eat *&^% you eat
How much high blood pressure you get from pig feet
See you'll consume, the FDA could care less
They'll sell you donkey meat and say it's
FRESH! For nineteen-ninety, you SUCKERS

He ain't ever lie.

Vic in response to your question,

Morning: Soy Protein Shake
Mid afternoon: A juice consisting of- 1 apple, kale, celery, cucumber, and carrots
& supplements b/c of the aforementioned article I can't get down with meat  :P
Dinner: I had pancakes, veggie sausage, home fries, and veggie eggs.
So I started off great, then it all went downhill after that  :-[ :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 14, 2005, 09:50:28 PM
Victotr . . .

On a normal school day, this is what I have:

Breakfast: fruit smoothie (alone) or with scrambled eggs and toast.

Lunch: Salad or sandwich with a cup of soup.

Dinner:  This is where I shine, because I can cook better than your grandmama.
The last dinner I actually cooked was
Fried catfish fillets and shrimp, grilled vegetables and rice. 

My gumbo draws people from all over campus.     

Sorry, I have to have my meat.  I eat pretty light throughout the day, but my dinner has to be something great. 

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 14, 2005, 10:16:58 PM
Smujd --- This is what I dont get, how do you find time to cook? When I was in UG I didnt find time to cook. Most of the time I had to get my fix at some trendy eatery.

I'm real interested on how Sands eats because I could only find 1 good place to eat at around his area.


LadyDay --- After looking at what you eat on a typical day, I'm indecisive about this vegan stuff. After reading 150 pages I would want some incentive and that broccoli smoothie just aint cuttin it. Picture me being in torts class and I start to get hungry, then the professor tells a lame joke and the students laugh, and then my stomach is like "Feed me . . ..  feed me . . ." and then I think about what i have at home to eat and then my mouth waters and then I realize what im having for lunch is some organic squash with raisins . . . . .  :-\  I need something to give me that boost . . . make me have that McDonalds smile. You know what I mean?

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 14, 2005, 10:45:46 PM
Victor,

I MAKE TIME TO COOK at least one decent meal a day.  Its normally dinner, and I am normally studying as I am chopping onions, or stirring spaghetti sauce, or something.  But I have to eat decently.  Campus food does not cut it.  It probably means that I stay up an hour and a half longer than the other people in my class, but at least I can say that I made some darn good gumbo.

So if this law school thing does't work out, I can open up a soul food restaurant . . .
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 15, 2005, 02:00:43 AM
Oooooooh.. . .just as I'm about to leave the library because my back hurts from being curled up at a table all day, and the sun is starting to set. 

We actually did International Shoe on the first day of class this semester. . . .or at least the first week, I think.  All I remember about International Shoe right of the top of my head is that it set the standard for the minimum contacts analysis.  Before international shoe, when determining whether a plaintiff could get personal jurisdiction over a defendant, courts applied a test that stated that in order to have jurisdiction over the defendant, there had to be substancial contacts between the defendant and the forum state.  However, using this test allowed a lot of defendants to get off in lawsuits just because the plaintiff couldn't prove substancial contacts.  Then, the court, in international shoe, adopted the minimum contacts standard, which allows a plaintiff to show that the defendant has minimum contacts with the state.  This test broadened how a plaintiff could get control over a defendant. 

In this case:  The plaintiff was the state of Washington suing the defendant, a company that sold shoes door to door through the use of salesmen.


I know that's really sketchy but a sista is starting to get a little lightheaded.  Going to eat with a friend . . .be back later.

Vic - you are a fool with that KRS-1 beat

SMU - that's pretty good for off the top of the dome.  The thing about International Shoe is that while it establishes that minimum contacts CAN be used, it doesn't define the test.  It still leaves the rule up in the air.  Sometimes your contacts are enough to allow personal jurisdiction, sometimes they're not.  There's no set method.  And depending on how much "contact" you have with a state you may or may not be liable for stuff outside of your own personal activities in that state (like if Shoe had set up shop in Washington they coulda got sued for sh!t completely unrelated to the shoe business - on the flip if they're only contact is a dozen salsemen in the state of Washington, and they're headquartered in St. Louis, they can only be sued in Washington for sh!t related to the Shoe biz).  Of course the court gives no guidelines on when enough contact is sufficient.

Damn supreme court justices and their made up tests!!

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 15, 2005, 06:45:50 AM
LadyDay --- After looking at what you eat on a typical day, I'm indecisive about this vegan stuff. After reading 150 pages I would want some incentive and that broccoli smoothie just aint cuttin it. Picture me being in torts class and I start to get hungry, then the professor tells a lame joke and the students laugh, and then my stomach is like "Feed me . . ..  feed me . . ." and then I think about what i have at home to eat and then my mouth waters and then I realize what im having for lunch is some organic squash with raisins . . . . .  :-\  I need something to give me that boost . . . make me have that McDonalds smile. You know what I mean?

LOL.  Most anything you can get from McDonald's, you can find a vegetarian or vegan version that either tastes the same, tastes better, and isn't packed with preservatives, fat, and sugar. Just b/c you're a veggie doesn't mean that you eat leaves all day long lol, if anything, I eat mostly junk food b/c I'm a law student, and don't have time to cook. And that's not a good thing. But there are veggie versions of all junk food, chips, fries, burgers, pizza, burritos, EVERYTHING. The thing is, most of American society is ADDICTED to meat. And they want you to be, why do you think the beef industry went after Oprah the way that they did, b/c they knew that once people are really educated on what they are putting into their bodies, they would lose millions of dollars. Have u seen "SuperSizeMe"? Great flick. As much as I know about the industry I was still like  :o. Ultimately though, it comes down to choice. I don't force a vegetarianism lifestyle down anyone's throat, but if they ask, I will inform people so that can make a conscious decision on what to eat. So just Do You!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on March 15, 2005, 10:04:12 AM
sorry for posting this stuff about food on here, but i think that just trying to eat organic meat and veggies is better for you as well, and thats what i'm trying to do b/c i haven't given up chicken and fish. when i spent some time outside of the states i discovered that i felt healthier, just b/c the meat and veggies were without pesticides and hormones. i even ate beef and it didn't make me sick like it does here in the u.s. just my thoughts.
smu and ladyday, do y'all make your power drinks at home? or buy them on your way to class? what kinds of supplements do you add to them?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 10:09:12 AM
My smoothies are made with my blender, with whatever fruit I decide that I want for the week.  I use juice too, so its good and tasty without artificial sugar.  I don't really add vitamins and boosters to mine . . .they boost me enough as it is.  You can get some ice, juice, and fruit at the grocery store for about a week for 10 dollars, or I could buy a smoothie every morning (like one of my friends does) for five dollars.  That is too much money.  I am a student on a student budget.  I make my own everything . . .. . (except the occasional candy bar).
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 10:13:05 AM
Sands, I don't think the Supreme Court has made up a useful test that is predictable in its application.  That is the purpose of caselaw after the test is enunciated . . . to tell us what the test means.  That is the exciting part about law, how it always changes. 

P.S. Take a night off and go chill with a good friend.  It will do you good.



 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 10:19:26 AM
sorry for posting this stuff about food on here, but i think that just trying to eat organic meat and veggies is better for you as well, and thats what i'm trying to do b/c i haven't given up chicken and fish. when i spent some time outside of the states i discovered that i felt healthier, just b/c the meat and veggies were without pesticides and hormones. i even ate beef and it didn't make me sick like it does here in the u.s. just my thoughts.
smu and ladyday, do y'all make your power drinks at home? or buy them on your way to class? what kinds of supplements do you add to them?

Okay, so our food is full of chemicals and stuff.  Fine.  That's why we all have cancer.

I eat the best that I can on my budget.  And that is all I can ask of anyone else. The problem with the organic food, and healthy alternatives, is that they are just flat out expensive.  That's why you can't really sell a minority on organic vegetables.  Its like--why pay five dollars for two pounds of vegetables when I can get ten pounds at Sam's Club for the same price? 

So, if you buy my food, you can tell me what to eat and what's better for me.  So is it better for me to have high blood pressure because I never have money because I buy organic food? Its kind of a catch 22. I understand the point, and I'm not snapping at anyone (so don't take offense). Most of the time, its about what's on sale so you can eat.  SURVIVAL is still the key word for many people.  So even thinking about eating organic food is not even crossing their mind. 

Now, I have to have my bottled water.  I'll admit.  Dallas water tastes terrible. 

Faith 2005--don't apologize for your opinion.  That is what discussion boards are about!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lexington on March 15, 2005, 10:52:28 AM
smu and ladyday, do y'all make your power drinks at home? or buy them on your way to class? what kinds of supplements do you add to them?

I recently bought one of those "Magic Bullet" blenders that you see on the infomercial.  It was on sale for $60 at Target - still kind of expensive I know, but it's great for making single serving shakes.  I love this thing so much I just had to comment.  I use it every morning and its quick and easy to use and clean.  You actually blend the shake in the drink cup, so when you're done mixing you just switch the top and go.

As for the ingredients, I use skim milk, strawberry soy protein powder (Trader Joe's), frozen fruit (usually strawberries), and a teaspoon of splenda.  Sometimes I use apple juice or orange juice instead of milk but I'm trying to watch the sugar.  Hmmmm, I wonder if soy milk would work.. Anybody tried it?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on March 15, 2005, 10:59:39 AM
no apologies. but i wasn't responding to you specifically. i read victor's thing and i wanted to respond and say that i feel like you can avoid some things and still eat meat. its crazy that organic things cost so much more. thats what i try to explain to people who say that all americans are fat and overweight. here poverty means you have more sugar/fat processed foods, not less. its funny how things are turned upside down. its not right, and i def. don't buy all organic, and i still eat plenty of fast food. its just something i strive for. in some parts of the developing world things like canned spaghetti sauce equal the cost of fresh veggies for a week. its like the opposite here. and i don't think all of it is a mistake. this is something i read in the village voice a few weeks ago.

"People die younger in Harlem than in Bangladesh. The leading causes of death in poor Black neighborhoods are not AIDS, drugs, or homicide. They are "unrelenting stress," "cardiovascular disease," "cancer," and "untreated medical conditions."
 
"The Numbers beyond the bling" by Ward Harkavy
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 15, 2005, 11:44:02 AM
Quote

Now, I have to have my bottled water.  I'll admit.  Dallas water tastes terrible. 




SMU-  did you hear about House Bill 3?  WTF is up with the "snack tax"?  I haven't researched it too much, but bottled water is part of what we're going to have to start dishing out more cash for.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 15, 2005, 11:53:17 AM
yeah you friggin health nuts
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 11:54:55 AM
no apologies. but i wasn't responding to you specifically. i read victor's thing and i wanted to respond and say that i feel like you can avoid some things and still eat meat. its crazy that organic things cost so much more. thats what i try to explain to people who say that all americans are fat and overweight. here poverty means you have more sugar/fat processed foods, not less. its funny how things are turned upside down. its not right, and i def. don't buy all organic, and i still eat plenty of fast food. its just something i strive for. in some parts of the developing world things like canned spaghetti sauce equal the cost of fresh veggies for a week. its like the opposite here. and i don't think all of it is a mistake. this is something i read in the village voice a few weeks ago.

"People die younger in Harlem than in Bangladesh. The leading causes of death in poor Black neighborhoods are not AIDS, drugs, or homicide. They are "unrelenting stress," "cardiovascular disease," "cancer," and "untreated medical conditions."
 
"The Numbers beyond the bling" by Ward Harkavy

I can cook, but I don't always cook greasy fried chicken and mashed potatoes.  I think more than diet the problem is exercise.  People just don't go for walks, or go to the gym nearly as much as they veg out in front of the t.v. (or, the computer, in some cases).  I bake, broil, and grill much more than I fry.

By the way, the soy milk gives the smoothie a kind of rich taste, without the stomach turning effects of cows milk ( I can only have 2% or skim, so I tend to just have skim or soy). I actually prefer rice milk if I have to use milk.  Juice is my favorite.  My favorite smoothie is grapefruit juice with strawberries and banannas.  It sounds really bad but it tastes SOOOOOOOOOO good!  
 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 15, 2005, 11:59:23 AM
*lights a candle*

*enjoys some organic spare ribs, Irish artichoke in a perflect blend of corn pudding*


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 12:00:07 PM
Quote

Now, I have to have my bottled water. I'll admit. Dallas water tastes terrible.




SMU- did you hear about House Bill 3? WTF is up with the "snack tax"? I haven't researched it too much, but bottled water is part of what we're going to have to start dishing out more cash for.

I haven't heard about it, but I wouldn't be surprised.  I am in law school, at least partially, so that I don't have to worry so much about how much my bottled water costs.  And I can still use my brain and interpersonal skills to help people.  I just want to be comfortable, not rich.  Which is a huge improvement from living paycheck to paycheck your whole life.  
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 15, 2005, 12:56:13 PM
This is the most health conscious group I've ever seen. 

Find me a low carb protein enhanced long island iced tea
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 15, 2005, 01:02:37 PM
This is the most health conscious group I've ever seen. 

Find me a low carb protein enhanced long island iced tea

LMAO, Sands!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 01:06:47 PM
This is the most health conscious group I've ever seen.

Find me a low carb protein enhanced long island iced tea

Sands got jokes . . . yet again. 
I'm not really that health conscious, I just happen to like food that is healthy.  Give me a plate of stir fried vegetables and rice and I will be a happy camper.

Oh, and I will NEVER cut carbs out of my life.  That is not humane. 

Sands, you can't live off of Long Island Iced Teas. How are your eating habits, anyway?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 15, 2005, 01:09:11 PM
sorry for posting this stuff about food on here, but i think that just trying to eat organic meat and veggies is better for you as well, and thats what i'm trying to do b/c i haven't given up chicken and fish. when i spent some time outside of the states i discovered that i felt healthier, just b/c the meat and veggies were without pesticides and hormones. i even ate beef and it didn't make me sick like it does here in the u.s. just my thoughts.
smu and ladyday, do y'all make your power drinks at home? or buy them on your way to class? what kinds of supplements do you add to them?

Okay, so our food is full of chemicals and stuff. Fine. That's why we all have cancer.

I eat the best that I can on my budget. And that is all I can ask of anyone else. The problem with the organic food, and healthy alternatives, is that they are just flat out expensive. That's why you can't really sell a minority on organic vegetables. Its like--why pay five dollars for two pounds of vegetables when I can get ten pounds at Sam's Club for the same price?

So, if you buy my food, you can tell me what to eat and what's better for me. So is it better for me to have high blood pressure because I never have money because I buy organic food? Its kind of a catch 22. I understand the point, and I'm not snapping at anyone (so don't take offense). Most of the time, its about what's on sale so you can eat. SURVIVAL is still the key word for many people. So even thinking about eating organic food is not even crossing their mind.

Now, I have to have my bottled water. I'll admit. Dallas water tastes terrible.

Faith 2005--don't apologize for your opinion. That is what discussion boards are about!!!

I understand people with lesser incomes not being able to afford organic, but as harsh as this may seem, it's not anything new, poorer people usually can't afford things like good food, and good healthcare so on so forth, so this isn't new. Poorer people aren't buying enough fruits and vegetables anyways b/c the non-organic items are still too expensive. But I had to figure out a way, so I joined a co-op and I skimp on other things. Like movie rentals, going out and drinking, etc etc. Once again it comes down to choice, and I figure since my body and health, are one of the only things in life that I will have ultimate control over, I gotta do the best that I can. Organic is expensive b/c growing the produce in healthy conditions is a lot more expensive than the other stuff. Organic tastes better and doesn't spoil after a day or so. Basically, you get what you pay for. Oh, it's also expensive cuz the gov is doing a really lousy job of subsidizing these growers, matter of fact, the gov subsidizes most food that they tell Americans they shouldn't eat. Makes no damn sense. However, if their was an increase in demand for organic items, inevitably (it may take a minute though!) the prices would come down.

Lexington: when I make smoothies I use soy milk. It tastes great! My favorite is Soy Dream Enriched. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Sands eating habits? 1/3 times i talk to him he's either on his way to Burger King, at Burger King, or just left Burger King  :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 15, 2005, 01:10:01 PM
Token lives on vodka, sushi, chips, french fries, and steaks.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lexington on March 15, 2005, 01:32:34 PM
By the way, the soy milk gives the smoothie a kind of rich taste, without the stomach turning effects of cows milk ( I can only have 2% or skim, so I tend to just have skim or soy). I actually prefer rice milk if I have to use milk.  Juice is my favorite.  My favorite smoothie is grapefruit juice with strawberries and banannas.  It sounds really bad but it tastes SOOOOOOOOOO good! 

Grapefruit with strawberries and bananas actually sounds pretty tasty.  It's probably got that whole sweet and sour thing going on.

Lexington: when I make smoothies I use soy milk. It tastes great! My favorite is Soy Dream Enriched. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I *think* Soy Dream Original is the brand they sell at Costco. Wonder what the shelf life is..  ;) I was never able to get into soy milk mainly because of the packaging and storage, but apparently Soy Dream Enriched is refrigerated.  I'm sure that makes a world of difference.. 


Do either of you have any particular flavor preferences?  I think I might start with Vanilla but that could be weird with cereal..
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 15, 2005, 01:43:11 PM
By the way, the soy milk gives the smoothie a kind of rich taste, without the stomach turning effects of cows milk ( I can only have 2% or skim, so I tend to just have skim or soy). I actually prefer rice milk if I have to use milk.  Juice is my favorite.  My favorite smoothie is grapefruit juice with strawberries and banannas.  It sounds really bad but it tastes SOOOOOOOOOO good! 

Grapefruit with strawberries and bananas actually sounds pretty tasty.  It's probably got that whole sweet and sour thing going on.

Lexington: when I make smoothies I use soy milk. It tastes great! My favorite is Soy Dream Enriched. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I *think* Soy Dream Original is the brand they sell at Costco. Wonder what the shelf life is..  ;) I was never able to get into soy milk mainly because of the packaging and storage, but apparently Soy Dream Enriched is refrigerated.  I'm sure that makes a world of difference.. 


Do either of you have any particular flavor preferences?  I think I might start with Vanilla but that could be weird with cereal..



there's a HUGE grocery chain in texas called H-E-B that sells the BEST soy milk in the entire world.  it is so good, and it tastes awesome with cereal.  i've tried practically every soymilk available in this part of the nation, and they all pale in comparison to HEB's soymilk.  it's one of the things i'm really going to miss when i leave.   :'(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 02:18:27 PM
By the way, the soy milk gives the smoothie a kind of rich taste, without the stomach turning effects of cows milk ( I can only have 2% or skim, so I tend to just have skim or soy). I actually prefer rice milk if I have to use milk. Juice is my favorite. My favorite smoothie is grapefruit juice with strawberries and banannas. It sounds really bad but it tastes SOOOOOOOOOO good!

Grapefruit with strawberries and bananas actually sounds pretty tasty. It's probably got that whole sweet and sour thing going on.

Lexington: when I make smoothies I use soy milk. It tastes great! My favorite is Soy Dream Enriched. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I *think* Soy Dream Original is the brand they sell at Costco. Wonder what the shelf life is.. ;) I was never able to get into soy milk mainly because of the packaging and storage, but apparently Soy Dream Enriched is refrigerated. I'm sure that makes a world of difference..


Do either of you have any particular flavor preferences? I think I might start with Vanilla but that could be weird with cereal..



there's a HUGE grocery chain in texas called H-E-B that sells the BEST soy milk in the entire world. it is so good, and it tastes awesome with cereal. i've tried practically every soymilk available in this part of the nation, and they all pale in comparison to HEB's soymilk. it's one of the things i'm really going to miss when i leave. :'(

Vanilla or plain is probably the best with cereal.  I had vanilla with raisin bran this weekend, and it was pretty good.  :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 15, 2005, 02:59:01 PM
the vanilla option might backfire, though.  sometimes vanilla soymilk ends up tasting like medicine.  blech!  i stick to original.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 15, 2005, 03:27:23 PM
Lexington: when I make smoothies I use soy milk. It tastes great! My favorite is Soy Dream Enriched. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I *think* Soy Dream Original is the brand they sell at Costco. Wonder what the shelf life is..  ;) I was never able to get into soy milk mainly because of the packaging and storage, but apparently Soy Dream Enriched is refrigerated.  I'm sure that makes a world of difference.. 


Do either of you have any particular flavor preferences?  I think I might start with Vanilla but that could be weird with cereal..


Soy Dream has a long shelf life, a couple of months actually, then once you open and refridgerate it's about a 1-1 1/2 week. I have only used vanilla for cereal, but for the most part I stick with the original flavor.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 15, 2005, 03:46:01 PM
LadyDay - I saw that you porch monkey.

I have a questin for Lil Token and SMU (and any other 1L who can answer). Everybody else feel free to continue the health foods convo already in progress I just had to ask these two a question right quick so don't mind me.

SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, 326 US 310]

International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 15, 2005, 03:49:09 PM
LadyDay - I saw that you porch monkey.

I have a questin for Lil Token and SMU (and any other 1L who can answer). Everybody else feel free to continue the health foods convo already in progress I just had to ask these two a question right quick so don't mind me.

SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, 326 US 310]

International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?


i should be paying attention, but all i read is:

"
SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, blah-blah-blah...

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 15, 2005, 04:04:39 PM
LadyDay - I saw that you porch monkey.

I have a questin for Lil Token and SMU (and any other 1L who can answer). Everybody else feel free to continue the health foods convo already in progress I just had to ask these two a question right quick so don't mind me.

SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, 326 US 310]

International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?


i should be paying attention, but all i read is:

"
SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, blah-blah-blah...

LOL! Don't worry, you're not supposed to at this time, eventually it will become second nature though.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 15, 2005, 04:21:12 PM
LadyDay - I saw that you porch monkey.

I have a questin for Lil Token and SMU (and any other 1L who can answer). Everybody else feel free to continue the health foods convo already in progress I just had to ask these two a question right quick so don't mind me.

SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, 326 US 310]

International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?

I defer to Ladyday.  We don't cover jusrisdiction till Civ Pro II.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 15, 2005, 04:24:49 PM
LadyDay - I saw that you porch monkey.

I have a questin for Lil Token and SMU (and any other 1L who can answer). Everybody else feel free to continue the health foods convo already in progress I just had to ask these two a question right quick so don't mind me.

SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, 326 US 310]

International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?

I defer to Ladyday.  We don't cover jusrisdiction till Civ Pro II.

Damn. Same here, that's why he knew not to ask me specifically, hope SMU can hook you up  :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 15, 2005, 04:27:37 PM
D'OH!!!

You guys call yourselves 1L's. [pfooey]

The fate of the known universe rests in the hands of SMU...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 15, 2005, 04:30:02 PM
LadyDay - I saw that you porch monkey.

I have a questin for Lil Token and SMU (and any other 1L who can answer). Everybody else feel free to continue the health foods convo already in progress I just had to ask these two a question right quick so don't mind me.

SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, 326 US 310]

Sands, I am by no means implying that I am right in this statement, but I did read up on jusrisdiction and covered it briefly in undergrad.  I've also read International Shoe.  My take is that the fact that they have a sales team in Washington could meet the "minimum contacts" criteria, thus it would be okay to sue in Washington (fed court, of course, because of diversity of citizenship).

International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?

I defer to Ladyday.  We don't cover jusrisdiction till Civ Pro II.

Damn. Same here, that's why he knew not to ask me specifically, hope SMU can hook you up  :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 15, 2005, 05:28:34 PM
LadyDay - I saw that you porch monkey.

I have a questin for Lil Token and SMU (and any other 1L who can answer). Everybody else feel free to continue the health foods convo already in progress I just had to ask these two a question right quick so don't mind me.

SMU & Lil TOKEN - Put your Civ Pro hats on for 5 minutes and help me with this problem:

[based on Int. Shoe, 326 US 310]

Sands, I am by no means implying that I am right in this statement, but I did read up on jusrisdiction and covered it briefly in undergrad.  I've also read International Shoe.  My take is that the fact that they have a sales team in Washington could meet the "minimum contacts" criteria, thus it would be okay to sue in Washington (fed court, of course, because of diversity of citizenship).

International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?

I defer to Ladyday.  We don't cover jusrisdiction till Civ Pro II.

Damn. Same here, that's why he knew not to ask me specifically, hope SMU can hook you up  :-\

Huh?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 09:43:55 PM
Crap.  I just lost the answer to the question that I typed out.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 15, 2005, 09:55:31 PM
Crap.  I just lost the answer to the question that I typed out.



Yeah right toots!

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 10:38:27 PM
International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?


International Shoe cannot be sued in Washington.  International Shoe set up factors to consider when making the determination that being sued in a particular jurisdiction is consistent with notions of "fair play and substancial justice."

1.  the extent of the defendants activities in the state, both quantitative and qualitative--in this case, the defendant was active in the state in sales, on a very minimal level.  Im assuming that the sales team is pretty small. 

2. Whether the contacts in the state were connected with the cause of action--no, they were not.  Though the team in Washington is a sales team, the Washington sales team did not sell the shoes to the plaintiff.  The shoes were sold to the plaintiff in Missouri.  Perhaps if someone from the Washington sales team filled in for someone in Missouri, this might work, but as the facts stand now, the contacts are not connected to the cause of action.

3. The extent to which the defendant looked to the benefits and protections of that state--The facts do not suggest this at all.  But by having a sales team in the state, you could argue (rather weakly) that the defendant enjoys the customer base that Washinton provides. 

4. Convenience--it is more convenient for the plaintiff to sue in Washington, but it would probably be troublesome for the defendant to sue in Washington as well, because they are incorporated in Missouri, which is far away from washington. 

5. Foreseeability--it is not foreseeable that the plaintiff would file suit in this case.  If the defendant knew when the plaintiff bought the shoes, it would not matter, because foreseeability has to do with the defendant, as a whole, expecting to be sued in a particular state.  On the other hand, you could argue that by having sales in Washington, International Shoe should expect to have suits in washington. But this consideration is strongly tied to the contacts with the state being connected to the cause of action. Though it might be foreseeable that suit is brought against International Shoe in Washington, it is not foreseeable to be sued for shoes bought in Missouri in Washington.   

Using the courts analysis in Gray, the act giving rise to the lawsuit must be substancially connected to the state. And WWVW suggests that we focus on the activities of the seller not the use of the product by the buyer.

All of this suggests that Washington is not the proper place for jurisdiction. 

But, you could go into general jurisidiction . . . .which would  work in this case as long as the company is so widespread and well known (like McDonalds) that it can expect to be sued anywhere AND the contacts are continuous and systematic.  Depending on the size of International Shoe, the court could get general jurisdiction over this corporation, but not specific jurisdiction. The contacts, by having the sales team, are continuous and systematic.  If the company is widespread, then you can apply the general jurisdiction alternative.

I think by indicating that International Shoe is "incorporated" suggests that we are to do an analysis of both general and specific jurisdiction.  General jurisdiction was developed to get jurisdiction over corporations as an alternative to personal jurisdiction. 


Hope that helps. . . .are you supposed to do venue on this question too?


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 15, 2005, 10:47:34 PM
Hahaha . . . smujd


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 15, 2005, 11:35:32 PM
Victor . . .
What's so funny?

SMU JD--yawn, gets out of bed b/c she has just woken up from an impromptu nap.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 16, 2005, 12:14:13 AM
Victor . . .
What's so funny?

SMU JD--yawn, gets out of bed b/c she has just woken up from an impromptu nap.


Nothing, just teasing.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 16, 2005, 09:04:15 AM
International Shoe is headquartered and Incorporated in St. Louis, Missouri. They have a small sales team in the state of Washington. A Washington resident visiting St. Louis buys some shoes there in Missouri from International Shoe. The Washington resident takes the shoes back to Washington and is injured in Washington from an alleged defect in the shoes. Can he sue International Shoe in Washington?


International Shoe cannot be sued in Washington.  International Shoe set up factors to consider when making the determination that being sued in a particular jurisdiction is consistent with notions of "fair play and substancial justice."

1.  the extent of the defendants activities in the state, both quantitative and qualitative--in this case, the defendant was active in the state in sales, on a very minimal level.  Im assuming that the sales team is pretty small. 

2. Whether the contacts in the state were connected with the cause of action--no, they were not.  Though the team in Washington is a sales team, the Washington sales team did not sell the shoes to the plaintiff.  The shoes were sold to the plaintiff in Missouri.  Perhaps if someone from the Washington sales team filled in for someone in Missouri, this might work, but as the facts stand now, the contacts are not connected to the cause of action.

I agree with your overall analysis, but I have to play devil's advocate because I know my professor will do that on Monday when he goes over these questions.  I want to make sure my answers are bulletproof.

I agree.  The contacts in the state of Washington clearly are not the contacts that gave rise to the lawsuit.  HOWEVER, how can you reconcile the fact that Int. Shoe does in fact have contacts in Washington that purposely avail it to the benefits and priviledges of the laws in the state of Washington?  This was a major element in the original case that led to Int. Shoe being held liable.  A corp or person availing themselves to the benefits of a state is establishing a contact in that state.  Let's assume from this fact pattern for a second that the exact type of shoes that the customer bought in Mizzou are sold in Washington.  Could it therefore be argued that whether the customer bought the shoe in Mizzou or in Washington is immaterial, and further concluded that in personam jurisdiction does apply to Int. Shoe in that case b/c they have substantial contacts in Mizzou and in Washington that sell the exact same thing that gave rise to the injury??


3. The extent to which the defendant looked to the benefits and protections of that state--The facts do not suggest this at all.  But by having a sales team in the state, you could argue (rather weakly) that the defendant enjoys the customer base that Washinton provides. 

This is the only place where I would have to disagree.  The fact that they have the sales team speaks toward their purposeful availment to receiving the benefits of the laws of that state.  That is not dispositive in and of itself to establishing personal jurisdiction, but its the first step.  The next question after we establish that they did establish a contact in the forum state is what you brought up in part 2. of your analysis.  The defective shoe was bought in Mizzou, not Washington.  I know that just because a corp. or person has contacts in a state does not mean the state can exercise jurisdiction over them necessarily...HOWEVER, I'm still not convinced that we can argue that jurisdictoin does not apply if the exact same shoe is sold in both states.

There's a part in WWVW that I think might help with this problem when it talks about how Volkswagen had service centers in other states (establishing minimum contacts) but that b/c the activities in those states is not what gave rise to the lawsuit those contacts were not considered to establish jurisdiction. That's what I pulled out of the following paragraph from WWVW, so let me know if you agree with my reading and I'll pull this ace out of my sleeve come Monday when the prof. is giving me the business:

"This argument seems to make the point that the purchase of automobiles in New York, from which the petitioners earn substantial revenue, would not occur but for the fact that the automobiles are capable of use in distant States like Oklahoma. Respondents observe that the very purpose of an automobile is to travel, and that travel of automobiles sold by petitioners is facilitated by an extensive chain of Volkswagen service centers throughout the country, including some in Oklahoma.  [*299]  However, financial benefits accruing to the defendant from a collateral relation to the forum State will not support jurisdiction if they do not stem from a constitutionally cognizable contact with that State."

What do you think?

4. Convenience--it is more convenient for the plaintiff to sue in Washington, but it would probably be troublesome for the defendant to sue in Washington as well, because they are incorporated in Missouri, which is far away from washington. 

no argument with that, Mizzou is a long way from Wash


5. Foreseeability--it is not foreseeable that the plaintiff would file suit in this case.  If the defendant knew when the plaintiff bought the shoes, it would not matter, because foreseeability has to do with the defendant, as a whole, expecting to be sued in a particular state.  On the other hand, you could argue that by having sales in Washington, International Shoe should expect to have suits in washington. But this consideration is strongly tied to the contacts with the state being connected to the cause of action. Though it might be foreseeable that suit is brought against International Shoe in Washington, it is not foreseeable to be sued for shoes bought in Missouri in Washington.   

ahhhhhhhh....I think this is our money argument.  Although WWVW v. Woodson basically threw Foreseeability out the window when it comes to jurisdiction, it did say that it could still be considered, and this would be how you could use it right here. They could expect to be sued for shoes sold in Washington, but not for shoes sold in Mizzou taken to Washington.  hmmmm...  I know this bastard though, he's gonna ask me why does it matter if they sell the exact same shoe...

Using the courts analysis in Gray, the act giving rise to the lawsuit must be substancially connected to the state. And WWVW suggests that we focus on the activities of the seller not the use of the product by the buyer.

OK, there's my back up for when he throws out the same shoe argument...

All of this suggests that Washington is not the proper place for jurisdiction. 

But, you could go into general jurisidiction . . . .which would  work in this case as long as the company is so widespread and well known (like McDonalds) that it can expect to be sued anywhere AND the contacts are continuous and systematic.  Depending on the size of International Shoe, the court could get general jurisdiction over this corporation, but not specific jurisdiction. The contacts, by having the sales team, are continuous and systematic.  If the company is widespread, then you can apply the general jurisdiction alternative.

Yeah but in order to get General Jurisdiction that company would have to have a very substantial presence in the state.  As in, an actual purchase of propery or an office building or something like that. The small sales team in Washington here is not going to give us that.



I think by indicating that International Shoe is "incorporated" suggests that we are to do an analysis of both general and specific jurisdiction.  General jurisdiction was developed to get jurisdiction over corporations as an alternative to personal jurisdiction. 


Hope that helps. . . .are you supposed to do venue on this question too?



Good biz.  I think we're on the same page.  I'm just tryin to anticipate what this joker is gonna ask me come Monday when we go over this in class.  I know he's gonna make the same shoe sold in both states argument.  But I see how we can get around that now.

Let me know if you think that I'm reading that WWVW paragraph right, or am I pulling too much out of that??
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 16, 2005, 10:58:54 AM
All of this suggests that Washington is not the proper place for jurisdiction. 

But, you could go into general jurisidiction . . . .which would  work in this case as long as the company is so widespread and well known (like McDonalds) that it can expect to be sued anywhere AND the contacts are continuous and systematic.  Depending on the size of International Shoe, the court could get general jurisdiction over this corporation, but not specific jurisdiction. The contacts, by having the sales team, are continuous and systematic.  If the company is widespread, then you can apply the general jurisdiction alternative.


Yeah but in order to get General Jurisdiction that company would have to have a very substantial presence in the state.  As in, an actual purchase of propery or an office building or something like that. The small sales team in Washington here is not going to give us that.

We don't have a lot of facts, so I just kind of toyed with this a little bit.  Which is what my teacher would want me to do on an exam.I think given the few facts that we have, general jurisdiction wouldn't work either.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 agree.  The contacts in the state of Washington clearly are not the contacts that gave rise to the lawsuit.  HOWEVER, how can you reconcile the fact that Int. Shoe does in fact have contacts in Washington that purposely avail it to the benefits and priviledges of the laws in the state of Washington?  This was a major element in the original case that led to Int. Shoe being held liable.  A corp or person availing themselves to the benefits of a state is establishing a contact in that state.  Let's assume from this fact pattern for a second that the exact type of shoes that the customer bought in Mizzou are sold in Washington.  Could it therefore be argued that whether the customer bought the shoe in Mizzou or in Washington is immaterial, and further concluded that in personam jurisdiction does apply to Int. Shoe in that case b/c they have substantial contacts in Mizzou and in Washington that sell the exact same thing that gave rise to the injury??

I don't think so.  One of the considerations in establishing personal jurisidiction is whether the contacts actually give rise to the action.  Even if the shoes were the same, what if the sales team is in Olympia and the plaintiff lives in Seattle, and will never go to Olympia, and has never been to Olympia?  But has family in Missouri?  The contacts in Washington do not necessarily relate to the plaintiff sufficiently to establish personal jurisdiction. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This argument seems to make the point that the purchase of automobiles in New York, from which the petitioners earn substantial revenue, would not occur but for the fact that the automobiles are capable of use in distant States like Oklahoma. Respondents observe that the very purpose of an automobile is to travel, and that travel of automobiles sold by petitioners is facilitated by an extensive chain of Volkswagen service centers throughout the country, including some in Oklahoma.  [*299]  However, financial benefits accruing to the defendant from a collateral relation to the forum State will not support jurisdiction if they do not stem from a constitutionally cognizable contact with that State."

This could go either way.  I understand your argument, but the last sentence to me suggests that the sales team is collateral to the state, so it does not support jurisdiction.  It only derives financial benefits from the state.  This is the beauty of the law--if you read closely, either side can win.  There's no such thing as real black letter law--just people who apply the law to further their clients case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using the courts analysis in Gray, the act giving rise to the lawsuit must be substancially connected to the state. And WWVW suggests that we focus on the activities of the seller not the use of the product by the buyer.


OK, there's my back up for when he throws out the same shoe argument...

Exactly.

_____________________________ _____________________________ _________________


Thanks for the civ pro review of personal jurisdiction.  I was planning  to sit down and do that this week, but if I don't get to it, I won't feel so bad. 

Gotta go. Blueberry muffins in the oven.   :P





Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 16, 2005, 03:48:08 PM
I think the answer with the strongest argument is that the cat cannot sue in Washington for shoes he/she bought in St. Louis.

All of the cases point in this direction from Shoe to Burger King.

This has been a good run thru.  We need more dialogue like this on the 1L board. Let us sharpen those legal minds and get prepared for finals.

I know pre-L's are lookin like WTF are these fools talkin about?? That's alright, 9 months ago I wouldn't have understood a damn bit of it either.  Its amazin how fast they change you when you get here.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 16, 2005, 04:23:05 PM
I think the answer with the strongest argument is that the cat cannot sue in Washington for shoes he/she bought in St. Louis.

All of the cases point in this direction from Shoe to Burger King.

This has been a good run thru.  We need more dialogue like this on the 1L board. Let us sharpen those legal minds and get prepared for finals.

I know pre-L's are lookin like WTF are these fools talkin about?? That's alright, 9 months ago I wouldn't have understood a damn bit of it either.  Its amazin how fast they change you when you get here.



looking forward to it.   :o
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 16, 2005, 06:03:58 PM
I think the answer with the strongest argument is that the cat cannot sue in Washington for shoes he/she bought in St. Louis.

All of the cases point in this direction from Shoe to Burger King.

This has been a good run thru. We need more dialogue like this on the 1L board. Let us sharpen those legal minds and get prepared for finals.

I know pre-L's are lookin like WTF are these fools talkin about?? That's alright, 9 months ago I wouldn't have understood a damn bit of it either. Its amazin how fast they change you when you get here.


I agree Sands. When I get to my contracts outline tomorrow, I'll post a K question . . .. unless you've forgotten it all already.

I'm pretty good with Con Law, too.  The problem is we just started this semester so we won't get to all the juicy stuff about the amendments. . . .
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 16, 2005, 06:59:09 PM
Bring it.

Say, by the way, if you have your E&E handy on Civ Pro, you had said if a court couldn't get specific jurisdiction it might be able to get general.  General juriscition is higher up on the food chain than specific, so it would only make sense to reverse that statement.  Look on page 6 of the E&E.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on March 16, 2005, 11:00:21 PM
I think the answer with the strongest argument is that the cat cannot sue in Washington for shoes he/she bought in St. Louis.

All of the cases point in this direction from Shoe to Burger King.

This has been a good run thru.  We need more dialogue like this on the 1L board. Let us sharpen those legal minds and get prepared for finals.

I know pre-L's are lookin like WTF are these fools talkin about?? That's alright, 9 months ago I wouldn't have understood a damn bit of it either.  Its amazin how fast they change you when you get here.


bro - if i would have known how much my life was about to change once i started law school i would have done a thousand lines of some yea, smoked the fattest boom batties to ever grace this earth, and boinked like i have never boinked before. lol.

nah seriously, when u think about it. since we've started law school, our lives have changed obviously. but i was just thinkin, they've changed for good. like, take summer for instance, usually, thats time off. in undergrad i drank till my liver hurt in the summer. not in 1L summer. i was just thinkin, because we've started law school, we now have an endless pit of work, that is never going to stop.

sorry to all u 0L's out there, to bring the conversation down, but DAYUM!!! ok, im finished with my little rant on how we will all always have work to do, work on our mind, and live with stress.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 16, 2005, 11:35:03 PM
I know its late, but I thought I'd share something with you guys.  I was just at a movie night on campus with some  (gasp) undergrad students.  So we are just chilling out on Spring Break, watching White Chicks, and this guy comes in and joins us.  After the movie was over, he asked me where I lived, and how I was connected to the campus and everything, because we see each other all the time but never really talk.  I told him that I was a law student, and he says: Wow.  And he shakes my hand and looks at me like he's in awe.  I asked him why, thinking that maybe he wanted to go to law school in the future, and he said: "Nah. You're my inspiration now.  If you can make it to law school, I know I can definitely get through undergrad."

Can you say warm fuzzy feeling?  I've been inspired to put in some more work before I go to bed!!!

We have to do it up big, 1L's.  There are people all around, looking at us for inspiration. 

Okay, I'm busting out the torts outline . . .  :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 17, 2005, 12:37:43 AM
SMU - important question -- was he fine?

1L's - Is anyone else tired of this f-ing brief?!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 17, 2005, 12:48:29 AM
lil_token:  As a matter of fact, he was pretty cute. Tall, dark and handsome. You don't think he was trying to hit on me, do you?

As for the brief . . .yes.  I am tired of it, and I haven't even started writing the hard parts.  I have set out the rules, but I haven't applied them.  And our rough draft is due on Tuesday. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 17, 2005, 12:55:48 AM
lil_token:  As a matter of fact, he was pretty cute. Tall, dark and handsome. You don't think he was trying to hit on me, do you?


As a matter of fact, I do. ;)  Go get 'im, girl!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 17, 2005, 01:04:19 AM
lil_token:  As a matter of fact, he was pretty cute. Tall, dark and handsome. You don't think he was trying to hit on me, do you?


As a matter of fact, I do. ;) Go get 'im, girl!

Dang.  I didn't even pick up on that.  I'm slacking.  It must be law school. Now what do I do? Slip a note under his door telling him that he inspired me to stay up an extra three hours to study? 

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 17, 2005, 01:11:40 AM
lil_token:  As a matter of fact, he was pretty cute. Tall, dark and handsome. You don't think he was trying to hit on me, do you?


As a matter of fact, I do. ;) Go get 'im, girl!

Dang.  I didn't even pick up on that.  I'm slacking.  It must be law school. Now what do I do? Slip a note under his door telling him that he inspired me to stay up an extra three hours to study? 



Close.  You slip a note underneath his door telling him that you hope that besides inspiring him to finish undergrad, you have also inspired him to take you out to dinner.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 17, 2005, 01:15:23 AM
lil_token:  As a matter of fact, he was pretty cute. Tall, dark and handsome. You don't think he was trying to hit on me, do you?


As a matter of fact, I do. ;) Go get 'im, girl!

Dang.  I didn't even pick up on that.  I'm slacking.  It must be law school. Now what do I do? Slip a note under his door telling him that he inspired me to stay up an extra three hours to study? 



Close. You slip a note underneath his door telling him that you hope that besides inspiring him to finish undergrad, you have also inspired him to take you out to dinner.

Are you serious?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 17, 2005, 01:52:33 AM
lil_token:  As a matter of fact, he was pretty cute. Tall, dark and handsome. You don't think he was trying to hit on me, do you?


As a matter of fact, I do. ;) Go get 'im, girl!

Dang.  I didn't even pick up on that.  I'm slacking.  It must be law school. Now what do I do? Slip a note under his door telling him that he inspired me to stay up an extra three hours to study? 



Close. You slip a note underneath his door telling him that you hope that besides inspiring him to finish undergrad, you have also inspired him to take you out to dinner.

Are you serious?


Lol, I would, but that's just my vibe.  Everyone has a different approach method.  If what I've suggested seems like it's a bit forward for you, then try something else.  Either way, I do think the guy was digging you.  Good luck with it! ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 17, 2005, 02:00:40 AM
lil_token:  As a matter of fact, he was pretty cute. Tall, dark and handsome. You don't think he was trying to hit on me, do you?


As a matter of fact, I do. ;) Go get 'im, girl!

Dang.  I didn't even pick up on that.  I'm slacking.  It must be law school. Now what do I do? Slip a note under his door telling him that he inspired me to stay up an extra three hours to study? 



Close. You slip a note underneath his door telling him that you hope that besides inspiring him to finish undergrad, you have also inspired him to take you out to dinner.

Are you serious?


Lol, I would, but that's just my vibe. Everyone has a different approach method. If what I've suggested seems like it's a bit forward for you, then try something else. Either way, I do think the guy was digging you. Good luck with it! ;D

Now I'm thinking about what he said . . . how he's seen me around, how I inspired him, and he said the sweetest thing about going up to his room to get his blanket and pillow that he's had since he was two.(Irrelevant, but shows that he's sensitive.)  I'm curious now.  And, really slacking.  I can't believe I missed that! I'm trying to find out if he has a girlfriend before I slip a note under his door --but I might just do it without hearing back from my friend that lives in his building.

Thanks for the jolt . . . I'll let you know how it goes.

 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 17, 2005, 05:45:13 PM
[Sands shaking head]
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 17, 2005, 07:08:22 PM
[Sands shaking head]

A girls got to get some action, man, even in law school.  Its lonely cracking books at 3: am with no "other half." That's built in motivation.  Especially if this guy is really inspired by me. And I'm inspired by him?  Hello, perfect match . . . .if he actually calls me.

 No different from you guys talking about crazy stuff.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 17, 2005, 07:57:50 PM
[Sands shaking head]

A girls got to get some action, man, even in law school.  Its lonely cracking books at 3: am with no "other half." That's built in motivation.  Especially if this guy is really inspired by me. And I'm inspired by him?  Hello, perfect match . . . .if he actually calls me.

 No different from you guys talking about crazy stuff.




so have you exchanged numbers all ready?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 17, 2005, 08:13:05 PM
[Sands shaking head]

A girls got to get some action, man, even in law school.  Its lonely cracking books at 3: am with no "other half." That's built in motivation.  Especially if this guy is really inspired by me. And I'm inspired by him?  Hello, perfect match . . . .if he actually calls me.

 No different from you guys talking about crazy stuff.




so have you exchanged numbers all ready?

I slipped a note under his door this morning before I jetted to the library with my number included.  I don't know what his schedule is like, so we'll see if he calls.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 17, 2005, 10:44:19 PM
The loooooooooooooooooove Boat...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 17, 2005, 11:02:01 PM
The loooooooooooooooooove Boat...

Maybe not.  He had all day to call and didn't. 
My Spring Break fling won't like it if I talk to another guy anyway.  At least not right now.  But I have to admit, this other guy is cuter . . . and taller :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 18, 2005, 07:58:28 AM
Girl get inside this house and stop messing with those nappy headed boys!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 18, 2005, 08:50:37 AM
Girl get inside this house and stop messing with those nappy headed boys!!!!!


LOL.


SMU, be more direct.  Get in his face and talk to him.  If the conversation goes well, then YOU ask him out.  There's nothing more fun than taking the power from a man from the get-go.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 18, 2005, 09:43:26 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out.  That's good sh!t.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 18, 2005, 09:45:18 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.

Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on March 18, 2005, 09:46:38 AM
hey, are you guys really brother and sister? Or Sands, did you not mean that literally in the poll thread?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 18, 2005, 09:51:08 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out.  That's good sh!t.


This is what I've found.  Men are like putty in the hands of a woman who has the confidence to take control.  I don't wait around for a man to make his move.  Half the time they're shy and intimidated too.




Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?


SMU, you should wait about a week before asking him out.  He may be delaying the call for a number of reasons.  Maybe he didn't even get your number?  Who knows?  I think a week is plenty of time to wait before taking the matter in your hands.  Ladyday is right, though.  If you ask him our before he even gets the chance to call you, you might come across as being desperate.  Wait a week.

And make sure you update us on the progress of your novela!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: never2bsy on March 18, 2005, 09:51:26 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.

Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?

 In my view, if a woman approaches me, I don't think that she's fast or any less reputable, for it would be wrong for me to cast judgement on her without having even been given the chance to talk to her and see what she is about.
 
 To me, a woman who has the nerve enough to approach me as a man has a lot of confidence in herself, doesn't mind taking risks, knows what she wants and isn't interested in playing the games that a number of women (not all) seem interested in playing. This in turn makes her somewhat more attractive to me, for I don't have to waste my time trying to determine whether or not she is interested.
 
Being the type of brother I am, I have no problem being honest in stating that I am interested in a woman in a certain fashion. However I must say that a woman who can make the approach is, in some ways, refreshingly different.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 18, 2005, 09:57:01 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.

Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?

 In my view, if a woman approaches me, I don't think that she's fast or any less reputable, for it would be wrong for me to cast judgement on her without having even been given the chance to talk to her and see what she is about.
 
 To me, a woman who has the nerve enough to approach me as a man has a lot of confidence in herself, doesn't mind taking risks, knows what she wants and isn't interested in playing the games that a number of women (not all) seem interested in playing. This in turn makes her somewhat more attractive to me, for I don't have to waste my time trying to determine whether or not she is interested.
 
Being the type of brother I am, I have no problem being honest in stating that I am interested in a woman in a certain fashion. However I must say that a woman who can make the approach is, in some ways, refreshingly different.


testimonial number 2. 


SMU, you go for the man.  he may be intimidated by you, being a law student, older (maybe?) and all.  you do it.  just wait that bit of time before going in for the kill.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 18, 2005, 09:58:44 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.

Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?

 In my view, if a woman approaches me, I don't think that she's fast or any less reputable, for it would be wrong for me to cast judgement on her without having even been given the chance to talk to her and see what she is about.
 
 

well, I wasn't even suggesting that she would be fast or anything  :D i'm just thinking in the context of SMU's situation, she's already given ole boy her #, then to get in his face before he even has a chance to respond seems a little too much to me. she's already given him the keys (which is a whole other thing) now at least wait a little to see if he wants to drive.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: never2bsy on March 18, 2005, 10:03:42 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.

Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?

 In my view, if a woman approaches me, I don't think that she's fast or any less reputable, for it would be wrong for me to cast judgement on her without having even been given the chance to talk to her and see what she is about.
 
 

well, I wasn't even suggesting that she would be fast or anything  :D i'm just thinking in the context of SMU's situation, she's already given ole boy her #, then to get in his face before he even has a chance to respond seems a little too much to me. she's already given him the keys (which is a whole other thing) now at least wait a little to see if he wants to drive.
She should definitely wait a little while. If he is interested he could easily be turned off because he'll feel smothered.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 18, 2005, 11:23:15 AM
Dang, yall.  Thanks for all the input!

I think he might be intimidated by me. I don't really look my age, but he might still think law student = older than me. I go to undergrad events to "blend in" and get away from the law school crowd because it keeps me sane.  It would not be the first time a guy was intimidated because I was at some crazy point in school. I say that I go to SMU to some guys, and they
re like . . . DAMN!!!  That's evern before they ask me what my major is--I tell them I'm a law student, and they start fumbling over their words.  That is why I went ahead and slipped the note under his door.  I mean, that should be enough to get him started, even if he was a little intimidated.  Why would I take time out of my ridiculously busy schedule to go back to his building, find his room  (which I didn't know where it was, so I walked all three floors until I found it) and put the note underneath? 

I'll give him a week . . . .then I'm going to forget about it.  I think Ladyday
s approach fits most with my personality--I don't want him to think that I'm too aggressive.  Besides, like I said, I don't know if he has a girlfriend . . .I just slipped the note under his door.  But you would think that if he was on spring break and had a girlfriend, he would be spending nights with her, not at movie night (or would at least bring her to movie night).

I just thought of something terrible ya'll . . . .what if this fine brotha is  gay? >:( >:( >:( ??? ???

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 18, 2005, 11:27:03 AM
Dang, yall.  Thanks for all the input!

I think he might be intimidated by me. I don't really look my age, but he might still think law student = older than me. I go to undergrad events to "blend in" and get away from the law school crowd because it keeps me sane.  It would not be the first time a guy was intimidated because I was at some crazy point in school. I say that I go to SMU to some guys, and they
re like . . . DAMN!!!  That's evern before they ask me what my major is--I tell them I'm a law student, and they start fumbling over their words.  That is why I went ahead and slipped the note under his door.  I mean, that should be enough to get him started, even if he was a little intimidated.  Why would I take time out of my ridiculously busy schedule to go back to his building, find his room  (which I didn't know where it was, so I walked all three floors until I found it) and put the note underneath? 

I'll give him a week . . . .then I'm going to forget about it.  I think Ladyday
s approach fits most with my personality--I don't want him to think that I'm too aggressive.  Besides, like I said, I don't know if he has a girlfriend . . .I just slipped the note under his door.  But you would think that if he was on spring break and had a girlfriend, he would be spending nights with her, not at movie night (or would at least bring her to movie night).

I just thought of something terrible ya'll . . . .what if this fine brotha is  gay? >:( >:( >:( ??? ???




lol.  gay men don't find inspiration from women unless they woman is cher, madonna, or bette midler.  he's straight. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on March 18, 2005, 11:32:13 AM
Dang, yall.  Thanks for all the input!

I think he might be intimidated by me. I don't really look my age, but he might still think law student = older than me. I go to undergrad events to "blend in" and get away from the law school crowd because it keeps me sane.  It would not be the first time a guy was intimidated because I was at some crazy point in school. I say that I go to SMU to some guys, and they
re like . . . DAMN!!!  That's evern before they ask me what my major is--I tell them I'm a law student, and they start fumbling over their words.  That is why I went ahead and slipped the note under his door.  I mean, that should be enough to get him started, even if he was a little intimidated.  Why would I take time out of my ridiculously busy schedule to go back to his building, find his room  (which I didn't know where it was, so I walked all three floors until I found it) and put the note underneath? 

I'll give him a week . . . .then I'm going to forget about it.  I think Ladyday
s approach fits most with my personality--I don't want him to think that I'm too aggressive.  Besides, like I said, I don't know if he has a girlfriend . . .I just slipped the note under his door.  But you would think that if he was on spring break and had a girlfriend, he would be spending nights with her, not at movie night (or would at least bring her to movie night).

I just thought of something terrible ya'll . . . .what if this fine brotha is  gay? >:( >:( >:( ??? ???




lol.  gay men don't find inspiration from women unless they woman is cher, madonna, or bette midler.  he's straight. 

ROFLMAO.............. :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 18, 2005, 11:37:53 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.


This is what I've found. Men are like putty in the hands of a woman who has the confidence to take control. I don't wait around for a man to make his move. Half the time they're shy and intimidated too.




Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?


SMU, you should wait about a week before asking him out. He may be delaying the call for a number of reasons. Maybe he didn't even get your number? Who knows? I think a week is plenty of time to wait before taking the matter in your hands. Ladyday is right, though. If you ask him our before he even gets the chance to call you, you might come across as being desperate. Wait a week.

And make sure you update us on the progress of your novela!

So my spring break fling is wanting to get serious . . .or so he says.  I told him I don't want to be serious right now.  But he's not listening. In fact, he's spitting out crazy stuff like he wants to change my name and wants me to be the mother of his children . . . .what the heck?  Guys, is he playing with me to get me in bed?  I don't feel like he really means this stuff. All the guys out there . . .are ya'll willing to stoop this low to try and make a girl sleep with you? I say I'm not convinced because its only been two weeks.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 18, 2005, 11:44:54 AM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.


This is what I've found. Men are like putty in the hands of a woman who has the confidence to take control. I don't wait around for a man to make his move. Half the time they're shy and intimidated too.




Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?


SMU, you should wait about a week before asking him out. He may be delaying the call for a number of reasons. Maybe he didn't even get your number? Who knows? I think a week is plenty of time to wait before taking the matter in your hands. Ladyday is right, though. If you ask him our before he even gets the chance to call you, you might come across as being desperate. Wait a week.

And make sure you update us on the progress of your novela!

So my spring break fling is wanting to get serious . . .or so he says.  I told him I don't want to be serious right now.  But he's not listening. In fact, he's spitting out crazy stuff like he wants to change my name and wants me to be the mother of his children . . . .what the heck?  Guys, is he playing with me to get me in bed?  I don't feel like he really means this stuff. All the guys out there . . .are ya'll willing to stoop this low to try and make a girl sleep with you? I say I'm not convinced because its only been two weeks.


whoa!  2 weeks and he's all ready making you bear his children!  craziness.  it all goes on how you feel about the man.  if you don't think he's genuine, then he needs to back off.  yeah, become his girlfriend but set your boundaries.  or is you being his gf contingent upon you sleeping with him?  interesting.

i'd never done anything like this before, but:  i went up to this guy, ended up going home with him, and in the morning we were talking about how tall our kids would be since we're both so frikkin tall.  it felt strange, but it felt right to have these discussions with this man so quickly.  2+ years later, we're still in love (but on the rocks a little...).  point is, it can happen so long as the feelings are reciprocated.

i've been in your situation-- the man acting like he was in love with me after a week.  Oh boy.  That's when he got the boot.  That was just flat out creepy.  It's all in how you perceive this cat.  If he's making you uncomfortable, don't just hold out on the goods-- leave.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 18, 2005, 11:51:26 AM
Girl get inside this house and stop messing with those nappy headed boys!!!!!

I'm looking for anything to keep me somewhat normal after this year. I don't know what it is, but all of a sudden I'm attracting guys and (gasp) I'm hitting on them.  Sista's just trying to have a little fun . . . .it just means I don't get any sleep (after this week).  :P ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lexington on March 18, 2005, 12:49:07 PM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out.  That's good sh!t.

There are certain outdated notions that I'm wiling to abandon but this isn't one of them  ;)  For example, I could accept having a "house husband," but me asking for a guy's number probably isn't going to happen.  Now if we're talking strictly entertainment, meaning I'm not really interested in the guy, then I'd have no problem asking for his number - maybe.  But, if I think he has some real potential then there's a certain old-fashioned protocol that we're going to have to stick with. I *may* offer my number (splitting hairs?), but its still up to him to call and do the pursuing.  I say this only because once i get suckered in, I'm all about my man.  I think its only fair for him to be all about me and putting in most of the work in the initial stages.  I feel like if I hand everything to him, how do I know how interested he really is.  Yes No?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on March 18, 2005, 01:33:30 PM
lol.  gay men don't find inspiration from women unless they woman is cher, madonna, or bette midler.  he's straight. 
Quote



LOL!!!! can we add lil kim to the list?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 18, 2005, 01:41:54 PM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out.  That's good sh!t.

There are certain outdated notions that I'm wiling to abandon but isn't one of them  ;)  For example, I could accept having a "house husband," but me asking for a guy's number probably isn't going to happen.  Now if we're talking strictly entertainment, meaning I'm not really interested in the guy, then I'd have no problem asking for his number.  But, if I think he has some real potential then there's a certain old-fashioned protocol that we're going to have to stick with. I *may* offer my number (splitting hairs?), but its still up to him to call and do the pursuing.  I say this only because once i get suckered in, I'm all about my man.  I think its only fair for him to be all about me and putting in most of the work in the initial stages.  I feel like if I hand everything to him, how do I know how interested he really is.  Yes No?

I hear ya Lex. The "house husband" thing I'm willing to consider though, my landlords have that type of arrangement and they are very happy. She works outside the house, but he stays at home with the kids and works on his art. They've also been able to buy a lot of property and this arrangement allows him to respond to tenants promptly which means, happy tenants, rent on time and long-term tenancies. I think situations like these are really ideal.

But it's hard for me to go "after" a man. Like you, once I'm committed to someone, I make it a priority to make sure he's *satisfied*. I don't normally offer my #, but I send obvious hints. To me, if the man isn't sure enough in himself to come at me (correct) then I don't really want to be bothered with him anyway. I really don't think I've ever asked a guy out, I give the signals and wait for him to pick up on them  :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 18, 2005, 01:43:15 PM
lol.  gay men don't find inspiration from women unless they woman is cher, madonna, or bette midler.  he's straight. 
Quote



LOL!!!! can we add lil kim to the list?


as what?  as a gay man or as an inspiration?


seriously, that girl is so scandalous, that depending on who you ask, she could fall under either category.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 18, 2005, 06:49:34 PM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.


This is what I've found. Men are like putty in the hands of a woman who has the confidence to take control. I don't wait around for a man to make his move. Half the time they're shy and intimidated too.




Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?


SMU, you should wait about a week before asking him out. He may be delaying the call for a number of reasons. Maybe he didn't even get your number? Who knows? I think a week is plenty of time to wait before taking the matter in your hands. Ladyday is right, though. If you ask him our before he even gets the chance to call you, you might come across as being desperate. Wait a week.

And make sure you update us on the progress of your novela!

Hey, everyone. The guy from movie night has called . . .I have to finish studying before I can call him back.  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 18, 2005, 06:58:53 PM
this is getting out of control
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 18, 2005, 07:04:47 PM
I respect a lady who can get over those outdated notions that they can't ask a guy out. That's good sh!t.


This is what I've found. Men are like putty in the hands of a woman who has the confidence to take control. I don't wait around for a man to make his move. Half the time they're shy and intimidated too.




Sands, if a woman gave u the key (her phone#) and before you even get a chance to call her, she gets in your face, you wouldn't think that was a little too much?


SMU, you should wait about a week before asking him out. He may be delaying the call for a number of reasons. Maybe he didn't even get your number? Who knows? I think a week is plenty of time to wait before taking the matter in your hands. Ladyday is right, though. If you ask him our before he even gets the chance to call you, you might come across as being desperate. Wait a week.

And make sure you update us on the progress of your novela!

Hey, everyone. The guy from movie night has called . . .I have to finish studying before I can call him back.  ;D
Girl, you better call him.  I can't wait to find out what happens! ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 18, 2005, 08:30:06 PM
this is getting out of control

Sands, don't hate the player, hate the game.

So I'm making the phone call now . . . . stay tuned. . .
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 18, 2005, 08:36:35 PM
*token drools in anticipation!*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 18, 2005, 08:41:56 PM
i don't hate the game, i just don't play
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 18, 2005, 08:46:37 PM
this is getting out of control

Sands, don't hate the player, hate the game.

So I'm making the phone call now . . . . stay tuned. . .


yay!  all he needed was the time to call you.  i hope you're both planning something for tonight or tomorrow night.  SMU- hook us up with the details!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 18, 2005, 08:47:25 PM
i don't hate the game, i just don't play
sure, you don't, sands. ::)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 19, 2005, 12:38:27 AM
Okay, here it goes . . .

So I call him back, and he's at work.  So we talk for a little while, like 15-20 minutes, and he says well why don't you come on over here? Its pretty late and I don't have much to do at this hour.  So I go over there, and we talked and watched a movie until his shift was over.  Totally fun.  We cracked jokes and laughed a lot, which is good for me.  He's gonna call me tomorrow. I'm glad he's interested! ;)

But the best part is--he didn't cram his tongue down my throat the day that I met him. We just had fun.  And hopefully, we will have fun again tomorrow . . .
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 19, 2005, 12:47:57 AM
Okay, here it goes . . .

So I call him back, and he's at work.  So we talk for a little while, like 15-20 minutes, and he says well why don't you come on over here? Its pretty late and I don't have much to do at this hour.  So I go over there, and we talked and watched a movie until his shift was over.  Totally fun.  We cracked jokes and laughed a lot, which is good for me.  He's gonna call me tomorrow. I'm glad he's interested! ;)

But the best part is--he didn't cram his tongue down my throat the day that I met him. We just had fun.  And hopefully, we will have fun again tomorrow . . .

Oh, good stuff.

I am all jealous now.  Wish there were reasonably attractive men out here for me to have fun with. :'(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 19, 2005, 12:55:07 AM
Okay, here it goes . . .

So I call him back, and he's at work.  So we talk for a little while, like 15-20 minutes, and he says well why don't you come on over here? Its pretty late and I don't have much to do at this hour.  So I go over there, and we talked and watched a movie until his shift was over.  Totally fun.  We cracked jokes and laughed a lot, which is good for me.  He's gonna call me tomorrow. I'm glad he's interested! ;)

But the best part is--he didn't cram his tongue down my throat the day that I met him. We just had fun.  And hopefully, we will have fun again tomorrow . . .

Oh, good stuff.

I am all jealous now. Wish there were reasonably attractive men out here for me to have fun with. :'(

Where are you, anyway?  You may have told everyone before but it might have been when I was missing in action.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 19, 2005, 12:57:47 AM
i don't hate the game, i just don't play

yeah, you don't play  . . .right now.  :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 19, 2005, 01:16:37 AM
Okay, here it goes . . .

So I call him back, and he's at work.  So we talk for a little while, like 15-20 minutes, and he says well why don't you come on over here? Its pretty late and I don't have much to do at this hour.  So I go over there, and we talked and watched a movie until his shift was over.  Totally fun.  We cracked jokes and laughed a lot, which is good for me.  He's gonna call me tomorrow. I'm glad he's interested! ;)

But the best part is--he didn't cram his tongue down my throat the day that I met him. We just had fun.  And hopefully, we will have fun again tomorrow . . .

Oh, good stuff.

I am all jealous now. Wish there were reasonably attractive men out here for me to have fun with. :'(

Where are you, anyway?  You may have told everyone before but it might have been when I was missing in action.

Cali.  It's like they have a ban on attractive men out here.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 19, 2005, 07:15:03 AM
i don't hate the game, i just don't play

yeah, you don't play  . . .right now.  :P

oooooooh nucka, why u takin my words? ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 19, 2005, 12:55:21 PM
...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 19, 2005, 01:00:49 PM
boy, take that demon off your avatar! 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 19, 2005, 02:47:00 PM
...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 19, 2005, 04:34:52 PM
...

lol. are u morphing into Angry Sands again?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 19, 2005, 05:04:17 PM
I AM TIRED OF WORKING ON THIS TERRIBLE MOOT COURT BRIEF . . . .JUST WHEN I THINK IM DONE WITH RESEARCH I START WRITING WITH MY NICELY ORGANIZED OUTLINE AND EVERYTHING AND GUESS WHAT, I NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH!  THIS STUFF NEVER ENDS. I WILL BE SO HAPPY ON MARCH 29TH AT 9:00 AM WHEN I WILL RELUCTANTLY, ALBEIT HAPPILY PASS TWO COPIES OF THIS RIDICULOUS ASSIGNMENT TO MY LEGAL WRITING TEACHER, BOUND, WITH A BLUE COVER.

THERE.  I SAID IT.  IN ALL CAPS TO GET ATTENTION AND TO VENT MY FRUSTRATION.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 19, 2005, 05:43:03 PM
I AM TIRED OF WORKING ON THIS TERRIBLE MOOT COURT BRIEF . . . .JUST WHEN I THINK IM DONE WITH RESEARCH I START WRITING WITH MY NICELY ORGANIZED OUTLINE AND EVERYTHING AND GUESS WHAT, I NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH!  THIS STUFF NEVER ENDS. I WILL BE SO HAPPY ON MARCH 29TH AT 9:00 AM WHEN I WILL RELUCTANTLY, ALBEIT HAPPILY PASS TWO COPIES OF THIS RIDICULOUS ASSIGNMENT TO MY LEGAL WRITING TEACHER, BOUND, WITH A BLUE COVER.

THERE.  I SAID IT.  IN ALL CAPS TO GET ATTENTION AND TO VENT MY FRUSTRATION.



I feel your pain.  Who ever thought that a 15-20 page paper would take so damn much time and effort.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 20, 2005, 12:28:43 AM
AWwwwww the 1Ls are still at it. Paris was nice everyone. To answer the question on the poll, no I do not plan on hooking up with ANYONE at my law school. Too much complication. I like to keep my relationships low key and I think that will be difficult doing so at a law school were black women out number black men 4-1.


 Now men at other law schools are free game. As a matter of fact I've always dated guys outside of my circle and/or school.  :P



Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 20, 2005, 09:39:02 PM
I AM TIRED OF WORKING ON THIS TERRIBLE MOOT COURT BRIEF . . . .JUST WHEN I THINK IM DONE WITH RESEARCH I START WRITING WITH MY NICELY ORGANIZED OUTLINE AND EVERYTHING AND GUESS WHAT, I NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH!  THIS STUFF NEVER ENDS. I WILL BE SO HAPPY ON MARCH 29TH AT 9:00 AM WHEN I WILL RELUCTANTLY, ALBEIT HAPPILY PASS TWO COPIES OF THIS RIDICULOUS ASSIGNMENT TO MY LEGAL WRITING TEACHER, BOUND, WITH A BLUE COVER.

THERE.  I SAID IT.  IN ALL CAPS TO GET ATTENTION AND TO VENT MY FRUSTRATION.



I ain't even started that b!tch and it's due next monday.  Guess what I'll be doing this weekend?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 21, 2005, 07:01:34 AM
I AM TIRED OF WORKING ON THIS TERRIBLE MOOT COURT BRIEF . . . .JUST WHEN I THINK IM DONE WITH RESEARCH I START WRITING WITH MY NICELY ORGANIZED OUTLINE AND EVERYTHING AND GUESS WHAT, I NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH! THIS STUFF NEVER ENDS. I WILL BE SO HAPPY ON MARCH 29TH AT 9:00 AM WHEN I WILL RELUCTANTLY, ALBEIT HAPPILY PASS TWO COPIES OF THIS RIDICULOUS ASSIGNMENT TO MY LEGAL WRITING TEACHER, BOUND, WITH A BLUE COVER.

THERE. I SAID IT. IN ALL CAPS TO GET ATTENTION AND TO VENT MY FRUSTRATION.



I ain't even started that b!tch and it's due next monday. Guess what I'll be doing this weekend?

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Good luck.  I made 3 attempts to start over spring break and found that there was more research to do.  I've written about seven pages now.  Draft due Tuesday.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 21, 2005, 07:30:09 AM
before you started cruising on the love boat didn't you have a Contracts question to post?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 21, 2005, 07:33:10 AM
good morning SMU and Sands.   8)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 21, 2005, 11:38:33 AM
 To Smash or Not to Smash...that is the question?
I would have sex with somebody in my law school class.    - 21 (55.3%)
I would not have sex with somebody in my law school class.    - 17 (44.7%)
   
Total Votes: 38

55% of you are going to have the drama, boys and girls.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 21, 2005, 11:40:58 AM
Drama comes with sex no matter what the setting is. People will only find out your business if you let them. If the two consenting parties decide not to disclose their sexual relationship despite what may or may not come of it, there won't be any drama. However we don't live in an ideal world. People catch feelings and want to start some mess over them.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 21, 2005, 11:41:44 AM
To Smash or Not to Smash...that is the question?
I would have sex with somebody in my law school class.    - 21 (55.3%)
I would not have sex with somebody in my law school class.    - 17 (44.7%)
   
Total Votes: 38

55% of you are going to have the drama, boys and girls.


thsi question is late and doesn't matter at this point, but do you mean people in our 1L class or just other law students?  i voted assumed that you meant anyone in LS and voted yes. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on March 21, 2005, 11:52:03 AM
lol.  gay men don't find inspiration from women unless they woman is cher, madonna, or bette midler.  he's straight. 
Quote



LOL!!!! can we add lil kim to the list?


as what?  as a gay man or as an inspiration?


seriously, that girl is so scandalous, that depending on who you ask, she could fall under either category.

sorry im like 3 days late. i mean as an inspiration to gay men. i have met more gay men who love lil kim than i've ever met straight. if a guy really likes lil kim, (like knows all the lyrics and such) i usually take that as a sign that he's playin for the other team.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on March 21, 2005, 01:02:38 PM
lol.  gay men don't find inspiration from women unless they woman is cher, madonna, or bette midler.  he's straight. 
Quote



LOL!!!! can we add lil kim to the list?


as what?  as a gay man or as an inspiration?


seriously, that girl is so scandalous, that depending on who you ask, she could fall under either category.

sorry im like 3 days late. i mean as an inspiration to gay men. i have met more gay men who love lil kim than i've ever met straight. if a guy really likes lil kim, (like knows all the lyrics and such) i usually take that as a sign that he's playin for the other team.

 :D you just gave me a flashback to some gay guys back in high school when the crush on you video was out LOL
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 21, 2005, 04:25:03 PM
before you started cruising on the love boat didn't you have a Contracts question to post?

Yeah, I did.  And that was before I had to go back and do more research on the terible brief . . . . I think the love boat was just for spring break though because nothing is going on right now.  Don't worry, when i get back to contracts (which may not be until next week), I will post the question. Hold on to your contracts hat until then . . . .besides, you should be working on your brief too, right?   :P


And, as if that wasn't enough, I just got my computer fixed. I had  3 viruses and a whole bunch of spyware on my computer that froze it up last night while I was working on the brief . . . .that was some scary stuff.

Okay, so life gets back to normal . . . at least for now.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 21, 2005, 07:02:01 PM
Yeah I got the Appellate brief due next monday and I haven't even started on it.  Ask me if I care. All that work for a friggin 2 credit hour class.  I've already calculated it mathematically, I will get a B in LRW, whether I get an A, B, or a C on this next paper. Even with a D I would still have a B-. 

So I spent the majority of my break studying for my two 5 credit hour classes, Civ Pro and Con Law.

BTW, SMU - I was ON today in Civ Pro.  You guys just ever be on fire in a class.  It don't matter if you ain't read sh!t else during the entire semester, if you got that one class where you are just John Blazed with yours then you're the new Don Juan.  Instant street credit among your peers for the rest of the semester.

I'm still hype off this sh!t, but I can't take all the credit, I gotta give props back to SMU for bouncing the ideas with me.  Remember how I told you he was gonna ask that question?  Well he asked it.  And I had my rebuttal ready for him like whoa.

The best part about it, there's this cat from another section who always has something to say, and there's just something about him that's annoying but 1/2 the time you can't even hate for real b/c homeboy be on his stuff.  Well not today cat daddy. Today score one for the BLSD.  So it went something like this:

Prof:  So in this scenario would the State of Oregon be able to exercise personal jurisdiction?
Student1: [gives a weak answer]
Prof:  Not exactly, anybody else?
Student2: [gives an equally weak answer]
Prof:  uhhhhhhhhh...No.  Yeah you in the back.
Annoying Cat: Well in Calder v. Jones we see that...[gives a verbose dissertation and proves his point]
[the class murmers in approval of Annoying Cat and franticly starts flippin thru the casebook to find the case he just mentioned] 
Prof:  Ok so then you're saying it should be from the perspective of the plaintiff?
Annoying Cat:  Yes.
[Sands raises hand]
Prof:  Yes.
Sands:  Well actually, Calder v. Jones would cut the other way here because... [go into my own dissertation against annoying cat]
Prof:  [turns back to Annoying Cat] Rebuttal?
Annoying Cat:  Yeah but its still foreseeable to the defendant.
Sands:  Whether or not its foreseeable is immaterial b/c in WWVW...[go into another legal rant]
[silence...all the heads in the class turn like Tennis to see the prof's reaction]
Prof:  [The Prof again turns to Annoying Cat]  So Mr. Sands is distinguishing your point with XYZ...Rebuttal?
Annoying Cat:  ...[silence]
[crickets]
Prof:   Ok well we'll come back to you maybe.  Let me change the hypo on you Mr. Sands and ask [goes into another scenario]
Sands:  Your new hypo is analogous to McGee v. Int. Life Ins where [go into my answer]
Prof:   Ok well let me push you further on this point, what if XYZ and ABC?
Sands:  If XYZ then [answer] if ABC then as we see in the last case [answer]
Prof:   But wait, you just said that in one case there would be jurisdiction and in the other case there wouldn't....how do you explain that?
[class lookin at Sands like "yeah, how do you explain that one nucka?"]
Sands:  [sweatin like hell trying to think] Because if we look on...[still trying to think while I'm bullsh!ttin with the page number]...[and then at that moment I saw a note I had written to myself earlier in my book] well if we look on page 723 then we see that the distinguishing factor is [answer].
Prof:   Ok, so, according to the "Mr. Sands" Rule...[class busts out laughin] we can distinguish these cases like so.  So let me change the hypo on you again Mr. Sands, using your own rule, what would you do in a case were [goes into this big ol' elaborate scheme that just sounds impossible]  What would you do, Counsel?
Sands:  What would I do? I would consult with an attorney like you who has the answer to that hypo.

[class falls out they seats]


So eventually, like always, the professor always wins. He got me. If they plug away long enough, their legal brains are going to ask you something you can't answer. But it was fun while it lasted.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 21, 2005, 07:08:47 PM
Hey 1L'ers, how do you feel about having a part time job during lawschool? Is it doable?




Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 21, 2005, 07:11:33 PM
During 1st year, dont even think about it.

2nd and 3rd year yeah, no problem.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 21, 2005, 07:29:55 PM
Sands . . .glad to see that our colorful banter paid off for you. ;D 

Victor-- see Sands post about working during 1L.  I have a hard enough time feeding myself, let along working.  Just to give you an idea, there are reduced load students in my class (people who are taking 3 classes instead of 6) who still spend just as much time studying as the full time students do. (which, at times seems unfair, but once you get the process it all pretty much evens out).

All the 1L's we should keep posting questions once the big bad brief is done. It will sharpen our minds for finals.  And, we can be on fire in class like Sands was. That's always fun . . . I had a day like that in torts this semester.  We were reading this really technical case and I was all on point with every question that our teacher asked, and you could hear the silence in the room while our teacher was asking the questions.  Half of the class didn't expect me to get the answers.  But the second I blurted them out and the teacher's face lit up because someone understood where she was going with the case, all of a sudden you hear this mad clattering of 100 students typing the answers ferociously into their laptops.  Sweet.

Okay, back to the brief. >:(   Page 8 and counting.  >:(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 21, 2005, 08:41:43 PM
1L's, what kind of laptops do you have?  I need to start looking into PC's (I have a mac), and I'm absolutely clueless.     ???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 21, 2005, 08:58:49 PM
I have an HP.  It is generally a business laptop, but it has served me well, until the internet attacked it.  But it has been fixed now.  Very thin (though maybe heavier than some) and has everything I need, except a wireless card.  I had to buy one of those.  I would recommend you get something with wireless, ethernet and modem all together (just in case you have dial up at home, etc.) in my case, I have dial up at home and wireless on campus, so having both is a necessity.  When your prof posts a "Class is cancelled" sign on her website, you want to know at 11:30 before you go to bed instead of at 8:30 in the morning when you have already gone to campus to go to class. 

page 10 and counting. . .   
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 21, 2005, 09:51:46 PM
Rutgers doesn't require laptops.  About 99% of the class has them anyway, but you don't need it since we take tests the old fashioned way (by hand).

Notwithstanding, when/if you get one, make sure it has wireless internet 11(b) or better.  They will send you the spec's in the mail with your registration materials.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 21, 2005, 10:07:13 PM
thanks smu and sands. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 21, 2005, 10:13:30 PM
thanks smu and sands ( i got my MSP acceptance today-- :) )

Pardon me if I should know this, but I have moot court brain . . .what & where is MSP? Congrats!

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 21, 2005, 10:15:40 PM
Sands.  i am sick of that terrible picture.  Please change it.

I LOVE CIV PRO . . .AND I CAN'T WAIT TO START STUDYING IT AGAIN NEXT WEEK!!!! ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 21, 2005, 10:18:54 PM
Sands.  i am sick of that terrible picture.  Please change it.



amen to that one. 

SMU, check your PM's.  good luck on your paper.  sounds like fun and i'm really looking forward to that one.   ::)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 21, 2005, 10:43:12 PM
Sands.  i am sick of that terrible picture.  Please change it.



amen to that one.

SMU, check your PM's. good luck on your paper. sounds like fun and i'm really looking forward to that one. ::)

That's what you think. Just wait,one year from now . .. I doubt that this will be fun.  Even the people that are doing well in legal writing are in the library having heart attacks.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 21, 2005, 10:52:47 PM
Sands.  i am sick of that terrible picture.  Please change it.



amen to that one.

SMU, check your PM's. good luck on your paper. sounds like fun and i'm really looking forward to that one. ::)

That's what you think. Just wait,one year from now . .. I doubt that this will be fun.  Even the people that are doing well in legal writing are in the library having heart attacks.


i'm nervous just reading all you 1L's have to post about your socratic nightmares and all this writing.  but it's very interesting and amusing...  especially the man persuit!  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 22, 2005, 12:25:54 AM
Sands.  i am sick of that terrible picture.  Please change it.



amen to that one.

SMU, check your PM's. good luck on your paper. sounds like fun and i'm really looking forward to that one. ::)

That's what you think. Just wait,one year from now . .. I doubt that this will be fun.  Even the people that are doing well in legal writing are in the library having heart attacks.


i'm nervous just reading all you 1L's have to post about your socratic nightmares and all this writing. but it's very interesting and amusing... especially the man persuit! ;)

page 12 and counting.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 22, 2005, 05:38:49 AM
page 16. i have done a rough draft of the moot court brief that is one page too long. sigh.  well, its better than nothing. 

**Sighs, scowls because she has a pounding headache and realizes that the sun is already streaming through her window**

Off to get a nap before class.


I HATE THIS BRIEF!!!

okay.  that's all for now.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 22, 2005, 08:24:16 AM
Go to sleep, ma. Get some rest.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 22, 2005, 10:58:58 AM
I wish you cats could come to class with me.  We are getting to affirmative action in Con Law and in my Con Law class they pit two teams against each other to debate the case of the day.  My group is going up tomorrow and we are in defense of AA.  I can hardly contain myself.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on March 22, 2005, 11:16:18 AM
I wish you cats could come to class with me.  We are getting to affirmative action in Con Law and in my Con Law class they pit two teams against each other to debate the case of the day.  My group is going up tomorrow and we are in defense of AA.  I can hardly contain myself.

 :) Man I would love to be a fly on that wall.....U need a web cam.....broadcast it live over BLSD.....Good Luck, Rep for the BLSD Fam!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 22, 2005, 11:46:58 AM
Sands, represent on the debate in Con Law for me.  I won't be able to study that (at the graduate level) until the fall. 

Also, I got 3 hours and 2 minutes of sleep  ??? And everything that could be wrong with my brief, with the exception of the last five pages (which i wrote in a stupor) is wrong.

Our teacher says: Just trust your judgment . . . .I say.  Ummm.  I did.  And I'm looking over my draft and you are telling me that everything I did is wrong (as far as structure and organization).  >:(

In a week, this nightmare will be over.

As if that wasn't bad enough, I got passes to an advance screening of Beautyshop tonight and I can't use them. So get this . . . my mom is gonna go and take some friends! >:( >:( >:(

DAMN YOU, MOOT COURT BRIEF!!!!! >:(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 22, 2005, 03:33:57 PM
OMG im exhausted.  i just read all nine pages of this thread. this is the best thread on the entire site. you guys are the BOMB!!!  the love on this thread is a beautiful thing.  sands, congrats on the BLSA directorship...and SMU congrats on the new spring break friend...ladyday thank you for setting sands straight cuz whatever you said to him worked wonders.  i am so impressed and inspired by all you guys.  im scared sh!tless to go to law school.  as GOD is my witness that is the truth.  much love to all y'all.  i hope and pray i can withstand the madness of going part time and working full time. 

 :'( :'( :'( im just so overcome with emotion... :'( :'( :'(   
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 22, 2005, 04:57:49 PM
OMG im exhausted. i just read all nine pages of this thread. this is the best thread on the entire site. you guys are the BOMB!!! the love on this thread is a beautiful thing. sands, congrats on the BLSA directorship...and SMU congrats on the new spring break friend...ladyday thank you for setting sands straight cuz whatever you said to him worked wonders. i am so impressed and inspired by all you guys. im scared sh!tless to go to law school. as GOD is my witness that is the truth. much love to all y'all. i hope and pray i can withstand the madness of going part time and working full time.

 :'( :'( :'( im just so overcome with emotion... :'( :'( :'(

*warm fuzzy feeling*

Back to studying.

Much love to you too, and welcome to BLSD!! And good luck with part time law and full time work.  I'll be praying for you.

The key is just getting up in the morning and being prepared to work even harder, even smarter, even better than you did the day before.  And even on three hours of sleep, you will find the energy to get things done  . . . .(trust me.  I didn't think it was possible, but in the fall after finals I knew that this was for me because I was still putting so much work into it after getting knowcked down over, and over, and over again.) And I was still excited, and wanting more.

Law school - - the education you would love to hate.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 22, 2005, 05:46:46 PM
Token just got a job!  YEAH, baby!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 22, 2005, 05:49:12 PM
Token just got a job!  YEAH, baby!

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 22, 2005, 05:58:07 PM
Token just got a job!  YEAH, baby!

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks! ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 22, 2005, 06:01:03 PM
Without divulging too much info b/c all of the stalkers, can u tell a little about the job?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 22, 2005, 06:39:16 PM
Without divulging too much info b/c all of the stalkers, can u tell a little about the job?

Just sent you a PM telling you where.

I am getting my own office and everything.  Not just a cubicle, folks -- an OFFICE!  And my supervising attorney told me that I am going to have at least two assignments that will be my "babies" [his words, not mine].  I am really excited!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on March 22, 2005, 06:42:02 PM
Without divulging too much info b/c all of the stalkers, can u tell a little about the job?

Just sent you a PM telling you where.

I am getting my own office and everything.  Not just a cubicle, folks -- an OFFICE!  And my supervising attorney told me that I am going to have at least two assignments that will be my "babies" [his words, not mine].  I am really excited!

is this job in the public or private sector?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 23, 2005, 12:25:18 AM
yay on the job lil token!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 23, 2005, 10:31:00 AM
ZEN - good stuff. I'm glad we could provide some insight.  Welcome.

TOKEN - congratulations you rat bastahd.  now if the rest of us could get there it would be alright!

Just got my Property gade back on MARCH 22nd, 2005.  How about that sh!t?  Took the final on December 10th, 2004.  Crazy huh?  I need a record album like Arrested Development talkin about 3 months 1 week 5 days in the life of...


BTW - we rocked the AA debate in class.  I wish I could have tape recorded it.  We were debating this case in Richmond and the other panel had set up this argument saying that our panel had no evidence of discrimination, to which I replied "c'mon man....its RICHMOND...VIRGINIA...there's no evidence of discrimination in Richmond, Virginia are you serious??"

[instant laughter]
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on March 23, 2005, 11:23:58 AM
Congrats Lil_Token!


LOL- Sands u r silly....Congrats!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 23, 2005, 11:34:34 AM
Wow Lil_token congrats on the job. Sorry I didn't get the chance to call you back. I've been rather quiet on the board b/c my sleeping schedule is all screwed up. Congrats again. I know you worked hard to get that job.

SO how is everyone doing today? Still alive 1Ls?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on March 23, 2005, 11:56:43 AM
Wow Lil_token congrats on the job. Sorry I didn't get the chance to call you back. I've been rather quiet on the board b/c my sleeping schedule is all screwed up. Congrats again. I know you worked hard to get that job.

SO how is everyone doing today? Still alive 1Ls?

Taking a mental health day. LRW sucks. A lot. Takes up 90% of your time and is worth like 2 credits. But a 3L said it best to me, u basically put so much time into LRW b/c u get that immediate feedback, plus the prof is able to tell u if u really are improving.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 23, 2005, 03:09:31 PM
ZEN - good stuff. I'm glad we could provide some insight.  Welcome.

TOKEN - congratulations you rat bastahd.  now if the rest of us could get there it would be alright!

Just got my Property gade back on MARCH 22nd, 2005.  How about that sh!t?  Took the final on December 10th, 2004.  Crazy huh?  I need a record album like Arrested Development talkin about 3 months 1 week 5 days in the life of...


BTW - we rocked the AA debate in class.  I wish I could have tape recorded it.  We were debating this case in Richmond and the other panel had set up this argument saying that our panel had no evidence of discrimination, to which I replied "c'mon man....its RICHMOND...VIRGINIA...there's no evidence of discrimination in Richmond, Virginia are you serious??"

[instant laughter]


congrats on the job token.  enjoy ur mental health day ladyday.  hope ur happy w/property grade sands and nice AA debate outcome.  the challenge for me in debates like that is not getting emotional. peace  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 23, 2005, 07:18:53 PM
Wow Lil_token congrats on the job. Sorry I didn't get the chance to call you back. I've been rather quiet on the board b/c my sleeping schedule is all screwed up. Congrats again. I know you worked hard to get that job.

SO how is everyone doing today? Still alive 1Ls?

Yeah, but I have stooped to an all time low.  I did not have time to cook dinner today.  I ate . . . . . . . . (dramatic music playing) 

RAMEN NOODLES!!!!!!!! :P

Sands, congratulations on the debate.  Glad it went well.  I guess common sense arguments still have a place in law . . .during oral arguments!

Back to the statement of facts, table of authorities, and other miscellaneous stuff that comes before the argument that I have to finish today. 

Ladyday, I'm with you on legal writing.  I am doing nothing but working on my brief and reading for class now.  Except my teacher is not giving me feedback. I think its because I'm not a naturally competitive spirit, like everyone else in my class seems to be.  I am in law school to learn about the law, and be the best lawyer that I can be, not to compete with my classmates and make them feel stupid at every chance that I get (like some people in my section are).

Our teacher has online sign up sheets, and if you don't get the e-mail at precisely the right time, then you are screwed.  You don't get a slot.  She claimed that there were enough times for everyone to see her, but I got the e-mail two hours after she sent it and went to sign up, and all the appointments were taken except for one.

I have come to the conclusion that I am on my own.  I have to let go and trust my judgment at some point. 

Sigh . . .back to work. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 23, 2005, 09:16:03 PM
Thank you much for all the love, guys!  I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. 

Are those of you who are still looking considering clerkships, public interest jobs and research assistantships?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: seu2002 on March 23, 2005, 11:23:48 PM
congrats, lil_token.  i hope you were one of the first in your 1L class to get a job.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 24, 2005, 08:01:35 AM
SMU - yo, i need your expertise on the App. Brief. 

What the hell is the difference between de novo and "clearly eroneous" as far as the standard of review?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 24, 2005, 11:44:22 AM
nevermind, i figured it out
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 24, 2005, 02:51:01 PM
Man I need to get my act together. I have the worse case of senoritas. Today my teacher returned our midterms and I got a freaking C... a low C, my very first "C". My teacher got crunk and attached a note saying "Don't BS in my class anymore because I have no problem with flunking you, and then there will be no Harvard or Yale Law in the picture." I was like "DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMN". I've had this particular teacher for two other courses in the past so he is quite familiar with my work. So I believe he was rather insulted that I'm half-a$$ing his class. The grade is completely my fault b/c I haven't been going to class nor doing the reading.  Talk about a humbling experience. I apologize to him and now I'm going to start showing up to class. I can't believe I let myself slip like that. GET IT TOGETHER GIRL. JUST FIVE MORE WEEKS!


Sorry I'm done venting.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 24, 2005, 04:21:01 PM
Regal, girl, I know how hard it is during that last semester when you know youre going to law school and then all of the other stuff that you're doing doesn't really matter anymore . . .well, almost.  Just remember, bust your butt now, and party this summer . . . good luck pulling those grades up!!! :)

Burning, I see you've busted out the brief.  It stinks, doesn't it?  >:( Let me know how you are progressing.  I am trying to edit, but I don't have the patience.  Pray for me  and my friends ya'll, cause we are all stressing. All of our legal writing teachers are playing hide the ball, so we are basically on our own. Its gonna be a long weekend. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 24, 2005, 05:35:01 PM
Regal, girl, I know how hard it is during that last semester when you know youre going to law school and then all of the other stuff that you're doing doesn't really matter anymore . . .well, almost.  Just remember, bust your butt now, and party this summer . . . good luck pulling those grades up!!! :)

Burning, I see you've busted out the brief.  It stinks, doesn't it?  >:( Let me know how you are progressing.  I am trying to edit, but I don't have the patience.  Pray for me  and my friends ya'll, cause we are all stressing. All of our legal writing teachers are playing hide the ball, so we are basically on our own. Its gonna be a long weekend. 

this could very well be the worst piece of trash i've ever attached my name to

nobody knows where to start on ours

its rough
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 24, 2005, 05:52:48 PM
I'm editing, Sands.  Page 2.
I might shut down the library tonight.  This is not fun.  I am tired of this brief.
Monday morning I will take this thing to Kinkos and call it a day.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

We know where to start, but there is so much info on our topic that you could go off on a million tangents and miss the mark.  It really stinks.   >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on March 24, 2005, 06:45:35 PM
poll stands at 50/50 interesting
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 24, 2005, 09:01:06 PM
I'm editing, Sands.  Page 2.
I might shut down the library tonight.  This is not fun.  I am tired of this brief.
Monday morning I will take this thing to Kinkos and call it a day.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

We know where to start, but there is so much info on our topic that you could go off on a million tangents and miss the mark.  It really stinks.   >:( >:( >:(

What is the standard of review for your case?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on March 24, 2005, 09:05:34 PM
poll stands at 50/50 interesting

i dont know what covered means...  ???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 24, 2005, 09:07:08 PM
I'm editing, Sands. Page 2.
I might shut down the library tonight. This is not fun. I am tired of this brief.
Monday morning I will take this thing to Kinkos and call it a day.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

We know where to start, but there is so much info on our topic that you could go off on a million tangents and miss the mark. It really stinks. >:( >:( >:(

What is the standard of review for your case?

de novo.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 24, 2005, 09:08:43 PM
I turned my *&^% in last Friday, but I feel all of the 1L's' pain.  

In the timeless words of Butthead: "Beavis, this sucks more than anything that has ever sucked before!"

I'm just mad because I have to go against a gunner for oral args.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 25, 2005, 12:25:12 AM
RBG - covered means covered.  as in paid for.  the money you have from grants, loans, etc. is equal to or greater than the cost of attendance including tuition

SMU - you rat bastahd.  we have de novo AND clearly erroneous!  Try winning an argument against clearly erroneous.

LT - I heard that.


It's 2:30am Eastern Time and I'm still in the library working on this damn brief...

Its' 2:30am...do you know where your 1L is?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 25, 2005, 10:24:35 AM
RBG - covered means covered. as in paid for. the money you have from grants, loans, etc. is equal to or greater than the cost of attendance including tuition

SMU - you rat bastahd. we have de novo AND clearly erroneous! Try winning an argument against clearly erroneous.

LT - I heard that.


It's 2:30am Eastern Time and I'm still in the library working on this damn brief...

Its' 2:30am...do you know where your 1L is?

Dang, Sands.  Clearly erroneous on your first brief ever is a bit harsh.

Our library shuts down at midnight most days.  Rumor has it that it closes so early because we need to go home and go to sleep. I say because people would never rent apartments . . . .they would just camp out here!!  We have a dining hall to open soon, there's lockers to put stuff in . . .you might as well.   >:(

I shut this place down yesterday, and then went back home and studied for 2 more hours. 

This is getting on my nerves. 

Good luck Sands. Everyone else have a good weekend, and a great Easter.  My posts may start to thin out until Tuesday . . .
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 25, 2005, 11:15:39 AM
sounds like everyone could use a little comic relief....


People Really Said These Things In Court  

Q: What is your date of birth?
A: July fifteenth.
Q: What year?
A: Every year.

Q: This myasthenia gravis - does it affect your memory at all?
A: Yes.
Q: And in what ways does it affect your memory?
A: I forget.
Q: You forget. Can you give us an example of something that you've forgotten?

Q: All your responses must be oral, okay? What school did you go to?
A: Oral.

Q: How old is your son - the one living with you.
A: Thirty-eight or thirty-five, I can't remember which.
Q: How long has he lived with you?
A: Forty-five years.

Q: What was the first thing your husband said to you when he woke that morning?
A: He said, "Where am I, Cathy?"
Q: And why did that upset you?
A: My name is Susan.

Q: Sir, what is your IQ?
A: Well, I can see pretty well, I think.

Q: Do you know if your daughter has ever been involved in the voodoo occult?
A: We both do.
Q: Voodoo?
A: We do.
Q: You do?
A: Yes, voodoo.

Q: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?

Q: The youngest son, the twenty-year old, how old is he?

Q: Were you present when your picture was taken?
Q: Was it you or your younger brother who was killed in the war?

Q: Did he kill you?

Q: How far apart were the vehicles at the time of the collision?

Q: You were there until the time you left, is that true?

Q: How many times have you committed suicide?

Q: So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?
A: Yes.
Q: And what were you doing at that time?

Q: She had three children, right?
A: Yes.
Q: How many were boys?
A: None.
Q: Were there any girls?

Q: You say the stairs went down to the basement?
A: Yes.
Q: And these stairs, did they go up also?

Q: Mr. Slattery, you went on a rather elaborate honeymoon, didn't you?
A: I went to Europe, sir.
Q: And you took your new wife?

Q: How was your first marriage terminated?
A: By death.
Q: And by whose death was it terminated?

Q: Can you describe the individual?
A: He was about medium height and had a beard.
Q: Was this a male, or a female?

Q: Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition notice which I sent to your attorney?
A: No, this is how I dress when I go to work.

Q: Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead people?
A: All my autopsies are performed on dead people.
Q: Do you recall the time that you examined the body?
A: The autopsy started around 8:30 p.m.
Q: And Mr. Dennington was dead at the time?
A: No, he was sitting on the table wondering why I was doing an autopsy.
 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 25, 2005, 11:54:35 AM
That was funny.  I needed that.  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 25, 2005, 01:35:50 PM
Good sh!t

I swear for every smart lawyer out there, there are 10 dumbasses to match.  You could get thru law school or med school b/c you have the book smarts but still be a dumbass with no social skills.

Some of these cats amaze me.  They can get A's on LRW papers or exams but they just don't "get it."
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 25, 2005, 01:58:28 PM
Good sh!t

I swear for every smart lawyer out there, there are 10 dumbasses to match. You could get thru law school or med school b/c you have the book smarts but still be a dumbass with no social skills.

Some of these cats amaze me. They can get A's on LRW papers or exams but they just don't "get it."

This is so true.  Its like telling people . .. hey, get out of the books long enough to be social! Interact with people so that you don't lose your common sense! Please! So that I don't look at you like you've lost your ever loving mind when you say something stupid!

Its like Voltaire said:  Common sense is not so common.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 27, 2005, 02:18:22 AM
Page 11.  Almost there.


BTW, its 4:20am...do you know where your 1L is?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on March 27, 2005, 06:57:41 PM
Page 11.  Almost there.


BTW, its 4:20am...do you know where your 1L is?

rollin a phat philly
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 27, 2005, 08:40:58 PM
So I'm stalling.  I'm about to pull what I hope will be the last all nighter of the semester.

Brief to go to kinkos in the morning. About to spread work all over desk to get going on the last minute touches.

I feel like I've put so much work into this and prof is still going to find so much wrong with it, which is probably why i'm stalling.

Sigh.

1L's hang in there.

Myself included.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 27, 2005, 10:43:46 PM
*hands smu a cup of gatorade as she runs by*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 27, 2005, 11:12:37 PM
I'M DONE!!!!!!

And it doesn't matter b/c I'm still gonna get a B anyway.

I don't even drink beer but I'm sippin on a Corona at 1 am thinking of sh!t I left out of this paper...oh well.  It is what it is.

I wanna write a note to my professor talkin about "Res Ipsa Loquitur Beeeeatch"

BTW, there's a kid outside my crib with a BMW 745, and he's like 22....in the hood.  WTF?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 27, 2005, 11:42:42 PM
I'M DONE!!!!!!

And it doesn't matter b/c I'm still gonna get a B anyway.

I don't even drink beer but I'm sippin on a Corona at 1 am thinking of sh!t I left out of this paper...oh well.  It is what it is.

I wanna write a note to my professor talkin about "Res Ipsa Loquitur Beeeeatch"

BTW, there's a kid outside my crib with a BMW 745, and he's like 22....in the hood.  WTF?

LOL!! Yeah, its like that at Newark.

I thought you lived on campus though. You cheering on the Rutgers Womens basketball team?

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 27, 2005, 11:46:21 PM
man I don't watch them chicks.  I don't watch them dudes either.  I'm KU basketball all day, F*CK Bucknell.  And while we're at it, f*ck Illinois and North Carolina.

Newark is real kid.  Real gully.  I don't stay on campus though, I stay on the block you saw in New Jersey Drive where Heavy D told cats to take that sh#t back to Avon.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 27, 2005, 11:55:19 PM
corona tastes like what i imagine piss might.  guinness kid.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 12:38:43 AM
Sands,
Did you have to have your brief bound and have all of the "official" looking pages on it?  Like the certificate of service, certificate of compliance, table of contents, statement of the case, statement of the issues, etc. . . .

This is basically what I am reduced to working on for the rest of the night. 

If you don't have to do these things, I scream . . . .LIFES NOT FAIR!!!

 >:( >:( >:( >:(

smu makes angry face as she corrects a citation.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

smu is thinking about how she can cut three pages out of an 18 page argument that doesn't even have everything in it.  >:( >:( >:( >:(

Sigh.

It's gonna be a long night.


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 12:39:48 AM
zenbiddie . . .. .

thanks for the gatorade . . .though i am afraid i might need something more hard core to keep me up all night.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 28, 2005, 12:48:31 AM
double espresso coming up...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shiveringjenny on March 28, 2005, 01:04:02 AM
what the hell zenbiddie? i just checked my unread replies and you are, like, the last poster on every thread i've ever posted to. you are a post whore. go to sleep!!! >_<
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 03:51:03 AM
okay.

argument section is down to the impossible length of fifteen pages.

still have tons left to do . . .may skip class today to get some sleep. Besides, it doesn't matter anyway, as long as my final is good.

sigh.

the trials of being a 1L.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 28, 2005, 06:38:23 AM
what the hell zenbiddie? i just checked my unread replies and you are, like, the last poster on every thread i've ever posted to. you are a post whore. go to sleep!!! >_<

i know u r but what am i
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 28, 2005, 08:12:52 AM
Sands,
Did you have to have your brief bound and have all of the "official" looking pages on it?  Like the certificate of service, certificate of compliance, table of contents, statement of the case, statement of the issues, etc. . . .

This is basically what I am reduced to working on for the rest of the night. 

If you don't have to do these things, I scream . . . .LIFES NOT FAIR!!!




Do you think we're half stepping at Rutgers School of Law damnit!

Caption Page
Table of Contents
Table of motherf*ckin Authorities
The gotdamn Opinion Below
The Jurisdiction
The impossble Clearly Erroneous Standard of Review and his retarded cousin De Novo
The "I'm really the same things as the opinion below" Preliminary Statement
The SUMMARY of the argument...because lawyers are too f*ckin lazy to read the argument
and then finally...
The Argument
With Conclusion

It's all there kid.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 09:21:04 AM
No, I didn't think you were half stepping . . . .it just seemed impossible to get it done in a weekend, like you said. . . .correct me if I'm wrong.

So I finished it exactly 49 minutes ago and took it to be bound.  They should have it for me at 8 am, in time to turn it in at 11:00 am.

That was cutting it too close.

I am trembling from lack of food and lack of sleep . . .but civ pro starts at 11!!!

THE MOOT COURT BRIEF IS THE ASSIGNMENT FROM HELL.  I CAN'T IMAGINE DOING THAT FOR A LIVING . . .I WOULD SHOOT MYSELF IN THE FOOT.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 28, 2005, 09:41:09 AM
quadruple tripple latte double espresso comin up....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 06:47:46 PM
So the brief is out of my hands.

Back to all the other stuff I should have been doing last week . . . like reading for contracts, torts, civ pro . . . .property can wait, but its starting to pile up. Oh, and we have con law tomorrow, too.

Sigh.

It never ends. . . but I'd much rather read for class than work on the brief.!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 28, 2005, 08:46:12 PM
Reading for class is like a f*ckin cake walk compared to doing that brief.

I used to have my LRW papers done the week before they were due.  After I found out that we were pidgeonholed I stopped wasting my time.  Based on the Trial Brief, I calculated that I would need exactly 1 week to complete the Appellate brief.  About 4 days to do actual research, 1 day to do "interogatory" research (if you know what I mean) and 2 days to write it.  Already knowing the law from the Trial Brief was key.  If I had been starting this Appellate brief from scratch, I would have started a long time ago.  But when I was writin the Trial Brief I kept coming across strong cases for the other side and I wrote them down.  So when it came time to change sides on this one, I was ready to go.

13 pages, 26 cases, 5 law review articles, 3 statutes and a partidge in a pair tree

I'm ready to f*ckin argue already.  Let me get to the oral argument quick so I can make some Becky go home and cry.  I'm going to take out all my law school frustrations on whoever they assign against me.

Poor bastard never had a chance...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Regal_Muse on March 28, 2005, 08:49:55 PM
There are other ways you can take out that frustration you know.

 ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 10:17:35 PM
Reading for class is like a f*ckin cake walk compared to doing that brief.

I used to have my LRW papers done the week before they were due. After I found out that we were pidgeonholed I stopped wasting my time. Based on the Trial Brief, I calculated that I would need exactly 1 week to complete the Appellate brief. About 4 days to do actual research, 1 day to do "interogatory" research (if you know what I mean) and 2 days to write it. Already knowing the law from the Trial Brief was key. If I had been starting this Appellate brief from scratch, I would have started a long time ago. But when I was writin the Trial Brief I kept coming across strong cases for the other side and I wrote them down. So when it came time to change sides on this one, I was ready to go.

13 pages, 26 cases, 5 law review articles, 3 statutes and a partidge in a pair tree

I'm ready to f*ckin argue already. Let me get to the oral argument quick so I can make some Becky go home and cry. I'm going to take out all my law school frustrations on whoever they assign against me.

Poor bastard never had a chance...

Reading for class is a cakewalk. And I guess if I had already known the law, this brief wouldn't have been so bad.  But our brief was about something that we wouldn't study until we take civil rights . . . .that is if we decide to take it.

I wish arguments were this week . . . .to get it over with.  Instead this drags legal writing out for another week that I could be using to work on my other courses.

This weekend, I'm getting really rowdy. Then, I'll be chained to a desk until May 6th.

Oh, and Sands, don't be to hard on Becky.  After all, its just a credit assignment for us.  ;) :)

Catch ya'll later. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 28, 2005, 11:15:47 PM
Ours is 5% of our grade so I gotta give it to 'em somethin fierce.  For all those all nighters and undeserved B papers!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 11:17:43 PM
Oh.  I guess if ours was for more than credit, i would be getting ready.  But I just want to get it over with. 

Reading for contracts . . ..have a question . . .

Can anyone explain the difference between impossibility and frustration of purpose? 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 28, 2005, 11:30:02 PM
When is the last day of class for your 1L'ers?

*fixes smujd2007 a midnight snack*

*rubs smujd2007 neck*



Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 11:32:33 PM
When is the last day of class for your 1L'ers?

*fixes smujd2007 a midnight snack*

*rubs smujd2007 neck*





Aren't you sweet . . . .What's my midnight snack?  I had a pretty good dinner, but I love all things sweet.  . .  ;)

May 6th is the day of our last final. April 22 is our last day of classes.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 28, 2005, 11:49:41 PM
When is the last day of class for your 1L'ers?

*fixes smujd2007 a midnight snack*

*rubs smujd2007 neck*





Aren't you sweet . . . .What's my midnight snack?  I had a pretty good dinner, but I love all things sweet.  . .  ;)

May 6th is the day of our last final. April 22 is our last day of classes.



Your midnight snack is Maple Walnut Scones with a tall glass of soy milk. :)


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 28, 2005, 11:55:19 PM
yummy. :P

can i get a massage too?  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 29, 2005, 12:10:01 AM
yummy. :P

can i get a massage too?  ;)


The things I do for 1L ladies . . . .


No problem toots!


*massages Smujd2007 back*




Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 29, 2005, 12:16:48 AM
smujd2007 smiles as victor gives her a massage . . .

how old are you while you're massaging my back?  :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 29, 2005, 12:22:02 AM
smujd2007 smiles as victor gives her a massage . . .

how old are you while you're massaging my back?  :P

22


Yo stay still though . . . these are magic hands.


*chops smujd2007's back like angry E.Honda*




Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 29, 2005, 12:24:45 AM
smujd2007 smiles as victor gives her a massage . . .

how old are you while you're massaging my back?  :P

22


Yo stay still though . . . these are magic hands.


*chops smujd2007's back like angry E.Honda*





mmmmmmmm.  me too.

smujd2007 smiles as she relaxes because law books on the back or across the shoulders do something terrible to the body.

smujd2007 thanks victor for the wonderful massage with the magic hands
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on March 29, 2005, 12:33:55 AM
wtf is going on up in here?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 29, 2005, 12:37:08 AM
Say, Vic . . .. what you think about RBG barging in on us?  ;D ;D

smujd2007 sighs and wonders why this always happens to her.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Victor on March 29, 2005, 12:45:03 AM
Say, Vic . . .. what you think about RBG barging in on us?  ;D ;D

smujd2007 sighs and wonders why this always happens to her.

Whats a RBG?

I gotta get prepared for an interview, so I'll holla at you later. Goodnight smujd2007.



Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 29, 2005, 12:48:40 AM
Say, Vic . . .. what you think about RBG barging in on us?  ;D ;D

smujd2007 sighs and wonders why this always happens to her.

Whats a RBG?

I gotta get prepared for an interview, so I'll holla at you later. Goodnight smujd2007.


night Victor.

I'll be turning in in a few minutes.  Good luck with the interview!  :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 29, 2005, 01:11:04 AM
get yourself rested smu.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on March 29, 2005, 01:18:03 PM
Oh.  I guess if ours was for more than credit, i would be getting ready.  But I just want to get it over with. 

Reading for contracts . . ..have a question . . .

Can anyone explain the difference between impossibility and frustration of purpose? 


Didn't want to break up the mood ya'll got going up in here.  I saw a 1L question I can field.

The diffence between Impossibility and Frustration of Purpose

Impossibility is where the subject of the K has been destroyed or removed so that it is Impossible to carry out the K.

Frustration of Purpose is where the subject of the K is still in tact, and it is still physically possible to carry out the K, but the entire purpose of the K is no longer available.

In either case you can get legally breach or break off a K.

An example is in order:

You and I make a K for a house by the lake.  You pay me $500,000 and I give you the house by the lake.  That's our K.  After we sign our K, lightning strikes the house and blows it up.  There is no more house.  It is "Impossible" for us to carry out this K.

Change the hypo:

You and I make a K for a house by the lake.  I tried to offer you other houses not by a lake, but you told me specifically that you only want a house by a lake.  I find one and we make a K.  You pay me $500,000 and I give you this house by the lake.  After we sign our K, a heatwave comes in and the entire lake dries up for ever.  No more lake.  The entire Purpose of you buying this house by the lake was for the lake. It is not "Impossible" for us to carry out the K, but your purpose has been "Frustrated". 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 29, 2005, 11:24:13 PM
Thanks sands for the contract explanation . . . .it was helpful.
 ;D

On another note, girls...my Spring Break fling is knocking on my door again.

I'll keep you posted. ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lil_token on March 29, 2005, 11:27:10 PM
Thanks sands for the contract explanation . . . .it was helpful.
 ;D

On another note, girls...my Spring Break fling is knocking on my door again.

I'll keep you posted. ;)

Please do!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 30, 2005, 12:40:10 AM
Okay, everyone . . . . .Johnnie Cockran has died of a brain tumor?  This came out of nowhere!!!

Link to a story:

http://www.msnbc.com/id/7330234

What do ya'll think? 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 30, 2005, 05:31:58 AM
its a shame
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 30, 2005, 10:32:39 AM
commence discussion on the passing of JC (RIP) but as an aside, what do you guys think about this article?

Artificial Intelligence

Steven Lubet
The American Lawyer
03-04-2005


This is a story about law school exams, so it may cause a few twinges of discomfort or anxiety. Although it is a true story, I have changed a few details for the sake of anonymity.

My friend, whom I'll call Bruce, is a thoughtful and talented fellow who runs an extremely successful program (at a private university, not mine) that brings Chinese officials to the United States to study public administration. Among his many roles, Bruce teaches them administrative law, which has lately caused him some frustration. Planning to give a four-question midterm exam, he provided his Chinese students with a list of 10 topics that might be on the closed-book test, assuming that would help them study more efficiently in an unfamiliar setting. Then, to Bruce's chagrin, he received a set of exams with virtually identical -- that is, nearly word-for-word -- answers.

If they had been regular students, Bruce would have suspected cheating. But he soon realized that the students in the Chinese program had simply studied together, agreeing on the best possible answer to each of the 10 potential questions -- and then memorizing each one. Needless to say, my pal was appalled. It was supposed to be a law school examination, not a memory test. Besides that, he felt pretty guilty about the stunning amount of time his students must have spent perfecting and memorizing all 10 answers. And the final exam was looming. What could he do to prevent another fiasco?

"I keep telling them, 'Don't memorize,'" he lamented to me." 'Don't memorize,'" he repeated, his voice rising. But it had not done any good. The whole notion of spontaneous composition writing was, well, foreign to them. To the Chinese students, studying apparently meant absolute preparation, with no room for improvisation or surprises. So far, Bruce had not been able to figure out how to get them to concentrate on the concepts without writing scripts.

At first I identified wholeheartedly with Bruce's dilemma. His students were knocking themselves out unnecessarily, while defeating the very purpose of the examinations. They weren't getting much sleep, they weren't being tested, and they couldn't even be graded individually. Worse, there didn't seem to be an obvious way to bridge the cultural gap. How could Bruce convince his students to be less obsessive, and more spontaneous, about their exams?

But after I thought about it for a while, I began to sympathize with the students' point of view. From their perspective, our law school examination system must have seemed irrational. What is the point of testing a semester's worth of education on the basis of a few hours of rushed writing? Why place such an extreme premium on rapid recall and facile composition, rather than on extensive research and depth of understanding? The Chinese students apparently wanted to be judged on the basis of their studies, rather than on the basis of their synaptic speed. They wanted to give their best answers, rather than their quickest ones. No wonder Bruce hadn't been able to convince them to stop memorizing. Given the opportunity, ability, and time, what sane person would fail to prepare exhaustive examination answers?

So it is unsurprising that the Chinese students refused to embrace American law school exams. The real question is why American students put up with them.

There is almost nothing about the typical law school examination that is really designed to test the skills involved in law practice. And many aspects of exams are positively perverse. Take time pressure, for example. By their nature, exams are time-limited, usually to about three or four hours, during which it is necessary to assess the problems, decide on the answers, marshal the material (whether strictly from memory or from an "open book"), and then write, hopefully, coherent answers. There is no opportunity for reflection, research, reconsideration or redrafting. You simply dash off your answer and hope you got it right. No competent lawyer would approach a serious problem under comparable conditions (except in an extreme and extraordinary emergency); in fact, that would probably be malpractice.

Yes, a few situations require lawyers to respond promptly to the demands of courts or clients -- appellate argument, trial objections, "drop-dead" negotiations, filing last-minute documents and perhaps drafting the extraordinary deathbed will -- but the workaday life of the average lawyer is characterized far more by cogitation, elaboration, extension, and delay than it is by instant answers.

And, of course, the key lawyering skills -- the ones that separate highly successful practitioners from mediocrities -- are barely taught in most law schools, outside the clinic, let alone tested: tenacity, diligence, thoroughness, collaboration, consultation, fact investigation, and, crucially, the willingness to admit error and start over from scratch. Those qualities will actually put you at a disadvantage on law school exams. Far better to rely on flashes of insight and an ability to write on the fly.

The dirty secret (if it is a secret) is that law schools rely on exams primarily because they are easy to grade. The intense time pressure guarantees that the answers will be relatively short and, even more important, that quality will differ significantly. Exams do a great job of dividing test takers into measurable categories, even if those categories measure nothing more than an ability to take tests in an artificial, nonlawyerly setting.

The same thing can be said about the multistate bar exam, which tests even more information in even less time -- although at least the bar examiners have an excuse. They have the daunting task of administering a broad test to thousands of applicants in dozens of states on a single day, with obviously immense security problems. The test has to be quick, and it has to be simple. To their credit, the bar examiners don't purport to evaluate the test takers on any sort of qualitative continuum. They either pass or fail -- a one-point margin is as good as a perfect score -- on the basis of acceptable knowledge of the relevant law. And the failures can come back and take the test again.

Law school exams cannot claim the same justifications, but does it really matter? Students don't rebel (after all, they got into law school because they were good at test taking), faculties are content, and law firms evidently believe that grades mean something. On the other hand, those d**mn exams send all the wrong messages, emphasizing a sort of counterproductive intellectual stoicism in which you have to come up with the right answer, on your own, or else.

What can that lead to? Perhaps I can sum it up with another story. (I heard this one from another friend, a legal malpractice defense lawyer.)

A young lawyer at a small law firm was assigned the task of filing a complaint in a commercial law case. As fate would have it, he blew the statute of limitations by a couple of days. And then he panicked. Rather than admit his error, he created a dummy complaint with a dummy date stamp, and told the client that the case had been filed. He kept the client informed of the "progress" of the phony case for nearly a year, and then reported that, regrettably, it had been dismissed on summary judgment. The client, who was no chump, figured out what had happened and complained to the firm. Needless to say, the young fellow was promptly fired and reported to the disciplinary authorities. This is where my friend came in. He represented the lawyer in the disciplinary proceeding and managed to save him from disbarment, although the poor fool was suspended for three years. But that is not the extent of the disaster. As my friend put it: "Three years later, on the day the suspension ended, the statute of limitations had not yet expired on the underlying case." Relying on his memory, the young lawyer had misunderstood the law, with ruinous consequences.

Of course, he would have learned about his mistake in plenty of time, if only he had gone to someone for advice when he thought he was in trouble. I don't want to blame the kid's moral failings on his legal education, but it doesn't seem to have helped much. No matter where he picked up his self-destructive solipsism, it looks like no one ever taught him how to ask for help. On his law school exams, in fact, that would have been cheating.

Steven Lubet is a professor of law at Northwestern University, where he almost never gives exams.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 30, 2005, 05:49:12 PM
That article is good stuff.

Reading for contracts, doing laundry.

Sigh.

If I could just have a minute . . . .

Just wait until this summer.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 30, 2005, 05:50:48 PM
all your hard work will pay off. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on March 30, 2005, 07:17:33 PM


all your hard work will pay off.

I know, but its slow and long in between . . . .

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: zenbiddie on March 31, 2005, 12:58:50 PM
slow and steady wins the race
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 01, 2005, 11:01:10 PM
cheat on yo test, ma that's how you get ahizead
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 02, 2005, 10:20:11 AM
cheat on yo test, ma that's how you get ahizead

Sands, are you giving up hope that hard work eventually pays off in law school? Have you started partying yet?  :) I have terrible spring fever, and finals start in 3 weeks. Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 03, 2005, 09:30:03 PM
We are down the wire huh?  Only about 4 weeks left.

Yo, by the way, SMU took chapter of the year at the BLSA convention.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 03, 2005, 10:38:09 PM
I know.  I just checked my e-mail.  SMU BLSA has done some fabulous things this year. . .there's a good core group of people running the organization. Yay!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 03, 2005, 11:08:59 PM
My first final is three weeks from tomorrow.  Its time to get cracking!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 03, 2005, 11:22:11 PM
My first final is three weeks from tomorrow.  Its time to get cracking!!!!

 :'( I feel ur pain. I gotta get it moving on this LRW assignment though, I figure I'll pull a all nighter (on 3 hours of sleep) when I finally do get to sleep, it'll be like a bear in hibernation. Ya'll must ge out earlier though, my first final is in 4 weeks.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 04, 2005, 11:16:09 AM
I think I just had spring fever for one weekened because now i am ready to get going. If only the oral argument were over . . . in less than 48 hours though, it will be!!!

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 04, 2005, 06:00:09 PM
We just found out today who we are paired up with for the oral arguments.  I got my best friend arguing against me.  This is going to be hilarious.  We're gonna get up there and be like "If it please the court, we've decided to come to a settlement"
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 04, 2005, 08:55:55 PM
We just found out today who we are paired up with for the oral arguments.  I got my best friend arguing against me.  This is going to be hilarious.  We're gonna get up there and be like "If it please the court, we've decided to come to a settlement"

Yeah right. Ya'll know you'll still be trying to knock each other's teeth out. It's even better that way.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 04, 2005, 11:35:51 PM
We just found out today who we are paired up with for the oral arguments.  I got my best friend arguing against me.  This is going to be hilarious.  We're gonna get up there and be like "If it please the court, we've decided to come to a settlement"

Yeah right. Ya'll know you'll still be trying to knock each other's teeth out. It's even better that way.

I agree.  Ya'll will beat each other down, and then at the end, in the hallway, ya'll will swap civ pro outlines.  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 05, 2005, 05:19:12 PM
naw, she's too cool, I couldn't do that to her.  I will argue my piece, but probably will not rebut unless its absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 06, 2005, 06:13:05 PM
Anybody taking Con Law this semester?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 09, 2005, 12:43:08 PM
Question:      Do you have money for law school covered?
Yes    - 14 (40%)
No    - 21 (60%)
   Lock Voting
Edit Poll
Total Votes: 35


Looks like the search for Law School $$$ still continues.

New Poll
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 09, 2005, 09:14:21 PM

Anybody taking Con Law this semester?

Only taking the first half of con law. . . .all the separation of powers and federalism stuff.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 09, 2005, 09:39:28 PM
D'oh!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 09, 2005, 11:02:20 PM
Yo! 1L will get ur ass, right now I gots Sands sliding and laid out on my floor right now, hahahahaha...............
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 15, 2005, 05:06:46 PM
HELLOOOOO, hey everyone, so as your first year winds down, what does everyone have in store for the summer???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 15, 2005, 05:41:41 PM
I just found out hours ago that I will be working with the In House Counsel for Prudential's legal  department!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 15, 2005, 05:46:53 PM
I just found out hours ago that I will be working with the In House Counsel for Prudential's legal  department!!!!!!

CONGRATS
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 15, 2005, 05:55:53 PM
that's hot sands, congrats!!!!  ;) ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 15, 2005, 07:19:14 PM
I just found out hours ago that I will be working with the In House Counsel for Prudential's legal  department!!!!!!

Word. That's hot. Congrats Nupe.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 15, 2005, 07:20:39 PM
I just found out hours ago that I will be working with the In House Counsel for Prudential's legal  department!!!!!!

good job #%@!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 15, 2005, 08:52:48 PM
damn RBG, #%@! is my word.   ::)

Anyway congrats on the job.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 15, 2005, 09:18:25 PM
damn RBG, #%@! is my word.   ::)

Anyway congrats on the job.

It's like both of ours; I'll just keep it at my house.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 15, 2005, 09:20:53 PM
But RBG, I call people Coons in real life...Do you?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 15, 2005, 09:24:04 PM
But RBG, I call people Coons in real life...Do you?

yes. All the time.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 15, 2005, 09:26:25 PM
But I've been calling people coons since I was in 6th grade. Wait my bad, I better stop posting before something thinks I'm stalking them. LMFAO!!!!!!!! :o ;D ;)

Man I can't wait to get back to Cali.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 16, 2005, 01:46:03 AM
Congrats on the job, Sands.

No summer plans for me (at least not yet).  I am tempted to just stop trying so hard and just chill out.  I know that my mind, body and spirit would appreciate that.  I'll think about my career later.

This, as I am up at 3 am working on an outline.  If this seems totally crazy, its because I'm sleep deprived  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 16, 2005, 01:47:56 AM
[Sands comes out, sweeps the monkeys off his porch, and goes back inside]

BTW, thanks SMU. 

And go to sleep!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 16, 2005, 02:02:39 AM
I'm not looking forward to putting on the monkey suit again.  It seems like I just left Corporate America 5 minutes ago.  Its like going back into the classroom after you've just been out at recess.  Lunch Recess at that.  The 35 minute, chill on the playground, I'm all-time outfield kickball, I said give me baby bouncy now do-over type recess.

With some law school mixed in along the way.

Law School was/is rough, but I don't know which is worse...being in school or working.

I gotta lean towards working.  It just flat out sucks.  If we could all stay in school forever and get by in life we would do it.  Look at the undergrads right now, they're all making faces like "No way, kid, let me out this joint right now!"  But I'm tellin you cats, that ain't whatcha want.  The cats at my first firm job told me the truth when they said "Sands, damnit, stay in school for as LONG as you can!"  Man they wasn't lying!  Once you start working all the fun stops. 

Sure school sucks, but its on your time.  You go out to a party on Tuesday night and miss class Wednesday morning, who cares?  YOu get the notes from your friend and pick it up Thursday if you feel like it.

Working is on THEIR time, not yours. You go out on Tuesday night and party and miss WORK on Wednesday morning your ass is out of a career.  Now you gotta search the want ads with a "FIRED" tag on your resume and no references.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 16, 2005, 09:22:48 AM
I'm not looking forward to putting on the monkey suit again.  It seems like I just left Corporate America 5 minutes ago.  Its like going back into the classroom after you've just been out at recess.  Lunch Recess at that.  The 35 minute, chill on the playground, I'm all-time outfield kickball, I said give me baby bouncy now do-over type recess.

With some law school mixed in along the way.

Law School was/is rough, but I don't know which is worse...being in school or working.

I gotta lean towards working.  It just flat out sucks.  If we could all stay in school forever and get by in life we would do it.  Look at the undergrads right now, they're all making faces like "No way, kid, let me out this joint right now!"  But I'm tellin you cats, that ain't whatcha want.  The cats at my first firm job told me the truth when they said "Sands, damnit, stay in school for as LONG as you can!"  Man they wasn't lying!  Once you start working all the fun stops. 

Sure school sucks, but its on your time.  You go out to a party on Tuesday night and miss class Wednesday morning, who cares?  YOu get the notes from your friend and pick it up Thursday if you feel like it.

Working is on THEIR time, not yours. You go out on Tuesday night and party and miss WORK on Wednesday morning your ass is out of a career.  Now you gotta search the want ads with a "FIRED" tag on your resume and no references.

LOL. You ain't neva lie. I used to think there was something wrong with people when their career title seemed to always be "student" but I def understand where they're coming from. Working by far is the worst. Matter of fact, I think I'm gonna stay in ls another year and get my LLM.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 16, 2005, 01:00:44 PM
Congrats Sands! 

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: SheLaw on April 16, 2005, 05:09:48 PM
I just found out hours ago that I will be working with the In House Counsel for Prudential's legal  department!!!!!!

CONGRATS SANDS!!!   You know what type of work you'll be doing?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 17, 2005, 10:07:24 AM
They have several different departments,

Litigation
Mergers and Aquisitions
Labor & Employment law
High Tech Law
Federal tax compliance

and a couple other joints I can't remember but I think that I will probably be in either litigation or the high tech department.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 17, 2005, 02:14:34 PM
Interesting. My cousin who went to Stanford is doing IP law right now and told me this morning to STAY IN SCHOOL FOREVER! One of her colleagues, who got their JD from Stanford as well, recently quit because she hates practicing law and the 70+ hour work week. She said the money is fantastic but the quality of life isn't all that great. Has anyone honestly put thought into how many hours you will be working as an attorney? Do you expect to have any sort of social life? What about family? Has anyone thought about doing a joint program along with their JD just so that they could stay in school longer? LOL
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 17, 2005, 03:39:51 PM
That's pretty much the way it is.

we sell our soul for the six six six figures
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 17, 2005, 05:08:51 PM
Forget that mess. No point in making "six six six" figures and not enjoy it. Perhaps my persecptive is different though.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 17, 2005, 05:19:28 PM
Forget that mess. No point in making "six six six" figures and not enjoy it. Perhaps my persecptive is different though.

Shut yo broke ass up.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 17, 2005, 05:49:24 PM
Hhehe Hater. I'm saying. All matters is that you enjoy your legal career. Why go the corproate route if that is not what's in yoru heart?   ;D

Yes I'm broke. I'm going to get married and find a man to take care of me. I'm only going to law school for my MRS at this point.  :-*

Any takers?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 17, 2005, 08:47:22 PM
Muse, you are crazy. Going to law school for a Mrs. might not work so great . . .a good portion of my classmates are married (I'd say about 30-40%).

For the ladies who were keeping up with my spring fling situation, i have since ended the relationship. This guy was getting borderline crazy . . .he wanted to come over everyday and have spring fling nights . . .  I am in law school, I do have to study . . .. dang I wish I had partied harder in undergrad.  Because if I was in undergrad now, I would totally string him along at least until May.  But I'm already not getting enough sleep as it is because of outlining. . . .hmmmm. And he wouldn't take me once or twice a week.  He wanted to see me everyday and call me six times a day, and he wanted to talk about stuff like . .. what are we gonna name our kids?  ::) ::)

Drat. I hope you soon to be 1L's are taking notes . . .in fact, if you are reading this, you should be in the club right now!  Go while you can!!!  And have a spring fling without guilt while you can, too!!!  Go!! Run!!!!!!! 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 17, 2005, 08:55:02 PM
That was a joke Smujd to all the females who want to get their MRS in law school...I know there are tons of chicks who do that and end up disappointed.

As for your man situation, it sounds like you have a stalker. I'm experienced in that area. I can help you get rid of him if you like. ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 17, 2005, 09:05:57 PM
That was a joke Smujd to all the females who want to get their MRS in law school...I know there are tons of chicks who do that and end up disappointed.

As for your man situation, it sounds like you have a stalker. I'm experienced in that area. I can help you get rid of him if you like. ;D

I know it was a joke Muse . . .I was just using that opportunity to reply with a true response to give people a little fact about law school that they may or may not realize.

As for the stalker, I've got some friends that will help me with it, if need be. Thanks, though.  Good looking out. ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 18, 2005, 06:35:42 AM
i work in a big, actually huge firm right now, and the associates' hours suck, i'm here almost as much as they are (60hrs) but i'm just pushing paper, they're actually working and using their heads....and if you have a problem with all nighters (and i mean not leaving the office for 48 hours and having a back up toothbrush on sight) then big law is not for you...but for some reason, the hours and looking like doo doo b/c you haven't been home to shower hasn't deterred me from wanting to pursue a career in this type of environment..
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 18, 2005, 07:34:46 AM
in the words of Coldplay.. nobody said it was easy... this is exactly why i'm on the fence for a big law career... and why i'd never take a full-time big law job...

i work in a big, actually huge firm right now, and the associates' hours suck, i'm here almost as much as they are (60hrs) but i'm just pushing paper, they're actually working and using their heads....and if you have a problem with all nighters (and i mean not leaving the office for 48 hours and having a back up toothbrush on sight) then big law is not for you...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 18, 2005, 09:25:19 AM
i work in a big, actually huge firm right now, and the associates' hours suck, i'm here almost as much as they are (60hrs) but i'm just pushing paper, they're actually working and using their heads....and if you have a problem with all nighters (and i mean not leaving the office for 48 hours and having a back up toothbrush on sight) then big law is not for you...but for some reason, the hours and looking like doo doo b/c you haven't been home to shower hasn't deterred me from wanting to pursue a career in this type of environment..

That's what I'm saying, besides, not a stranger to hard work. I've worked 2 or more jobs before at 70+ hours a week, and wasn't making anywhere's near 6 figs (i'm sure others can relate), so I really don't think it will be a problem for me (at least I hope not) since i'll be actually doing something that requires brains and getting paid. besides, the less extra time I have, the less time I have to spend my money on unnecessary things, more money to save and invest. think about it this way, whenever you're not making money, you're spending it. but that philosophy's not for everybody.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 18, 2005, 12:21:23 PM
My motto in life is that I work hard to play hard. Working constantly like a slave and having no sort of social life isn't appealing to me. Money isn't an issue for me because I've always been diligent with my finances. I love to travel and mingle with people. Not to mention I'm very close to my family and I don't want to miss out because I'm slaving away at some firm. I have two young nieces, and three siblings under me who I want to see grow up.

Lets be realistic for a moment, most of us are not going to make partner regardless of where you went to school. The system is not set up to have a bunch of minorities (especially blacks) to make partner at a big firm. Besides, the average person stays at a big firm between 2-5 years. Has anyone realized how pointless it is to be working that many hours just to make someone else rich? That's the trap most people are falling into and that's just depressing to me.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 18, 2005, 12:27:32 PM
8-10 yrs before you're up for partner folks... btw those with student loans.. don't take the bar exam unless you have a job lined up.. the moment that you default on your loan you have 60 days to appeal it... otherwise you'll get disbarred..

in other words don't get barred til you know you can start paying those loans back...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 18, 2005, 12:30:46 PM
Wow I had no idea that was true...Damn loans! I thought there was a six month grace period to pay back those loans?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 18, 2005, 12:37:22 PM
i know i plan on doing big law to help pay off a decent portion of my loans and from what i heard that's why alot of others do it too, or you could actually enjoy the work, also it's known as "paying your dues" then it's off to an IP boutique and some brand management (still long hours but not as bad)....

i have a good friend who is general cousel for PWC and she loves it, despite the long hours, she's actually cool with it b/c she's doing exactly what she wants, i hope i can have the same luck!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 18, 2005, 12:41:06 PM
Wow I had no idea that was true...Damn loans! I thought there was a six month grace period to pay back those loans?

yeah here's an example..


Law students should be aware that once they become licensed attorneys, they are subject to suspension from the practice of law for defaulting on a student loan. Once the State Bar receives notice of default on a student loan, the attorney has 60 days to provide:

A certificate issued by the Texas Guaranteed Student Loan Corporation certifying a repayment agreement on the defaulted loan; or
A certificate issued by the Texas Guaranteed Student Loan Corporation certifying that the individual is not in default of a loan guaranteed by the Corporation.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 18, 2005, 12:52:14 PM

Has anyone realized how pointless it is to be working that many hours just to make someone else rich? That's the trap most people are falling into and that's just depressing to me.


haha, i thought about that. thats why that kinda stuff doesn't appeal to me. i'll do it for a summer or two but after that i don't think i could stand thinking about someone else getting filthy rich off of my work, and i'm just struggling to see my fam, since what good is money if you don't get to spend time with the fam. you can't take $ with you when you go!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 18, 2005, 01:27:20 PM
i know i plan on doing big law to help pay off a decent portion of my loans and from what i heard that's why alot of others do it too, or you could actually enjoy the work, also it's known as "paying your dues" then it's off to an IP boutique and some brand management (still long hours but not as bad)....

i have a good friend who is general cousel for PWC and she loves it, despite the long hours, she's actually cool with it b/c she's doing exactly what she wants, i hope i can have the same luck!

that's my plan. pay off those loans ASAP and then use the contacts and info from a larger firm to start my own firm. don't worry HBCU, once u graduate from LS, I'll hire u as a research assistant.

btw, the black female partners at the conference said it's usually 6-8 years to become partner. They all did it right at the 6 year mark, and one was PT at the time! I'm gonna remember those ladies and use them as inspiration. If I do decide I truly love the work and want to stay in a larger firm, then I plan on doing it BIG just like they did. No use in coming into this field with a defeatest mind frame. And I suppose most of my drive comes from wanting to be able to take care of my family, if slaving like a dog and "paying dues" is what I've got to do to achieve it, then it's not a question. Man, what u gonna do with your family if your broke? Sit around in your card board box looking at each other? Ok, extreme example, but still.......

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 18, 2005, 01:30:32 PM
Man, what u gonna do with your family if your broke? Sit around in your card board box looking at each other? Ok, extreme example, but still.......

that was funny, lmao
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 03:48:24 PM
My motto in life is that I work hard to play hard. Working constantly like a slave and having no sort of social life isn't appealing to me. Money isn't an issue for me because I've always been diligent with my finances. I love to travel and mingle with people. Not to mention I'm very close to my family and I don't want to miss out because I'm slaving away at some firm. I have two young nieces, and three siblings under me who I want to see grow up.

Lets be realistic for a moment, most of us are not going to make partner regardless of where you went to school. The system is not set up to have a bunch of minorities (especially blacks) to make partner at a big firm. Besides, the average person stays at a big firm between 2-5 years. Has anyone realized how pointless it is to be working that many hours just to make someone else rich? That's the trap most people are falling into and that's just depressing to me.


I hope ya'll realize that Harvard, NYU, Columbia, etc. are bona fide "production factories" for lawyers who go into Big Law.  So I hate to have to be the one to tell ya'll but that's what those schools are known for.  COINCIDENTALLY (or not) they are the "highest ranked" by the consumer US News....hmmmmm....could there be a correlation?

OF course your path in the law is up to you ultimately.  All of you have the ability to do whatever you want, even if you decide not to practice at all.  But if your hope is NOT to work the corporate law gig then you might be at the wrong school.  Nearly 70 to 80% of grads from those schools work for law firms.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 19, 2005, 03:58:00 PM

I hope ya'll realize that Harvard, NYU, Columbia, etc. are bona fide "production factories" for lawyers who go into Big Law.  So I hate to have to be the one to tell ya'll but that's what those schools are known for.  COINCIDENTALLY (or not) they are the "highest ranked" by the consumer US News....hmmmmm....could there be a correlation?


but is there a causation? Huh buddy? huh?

nope

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 04:11:51 PM

I hope ya'll realize that Harvard, NYU, Columbia, etc. are bona fide "production factories" for lawyers who go into Big Law.  So I hate to have to be the one to tell ya'll but that's what those schools are known for.  COINCIDENTALLY (or not) they are the "highest ranked" by the consumer US News....hmmmmm....could there be a correlation?


but is there a causation? Huh buddy? huh?

nope




Empirical evidence supports both actual causation AND proximate causation in this instance.

So the answer would actually be YES



Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 19, 2005, 04:13:34 PM
Ugh huh. Since Harvard, Columbia, and NYU are top schools, I think students who don't want to go the big law route have MANY options.  :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 19, 2005, 04:18:14 PM

I hope ya'll realize that Harvard, NYU, Columbia, etc. are bona fide "production factories" for lawyers who go into Big Law.  So I hate to have to be the one to tell ya'll but that's what those schools are known for.  COINCIDENTALLY (or not) they are the "highest ranked" by the consumer US News....hmmmmm....could there be a correlation?


but is there a causation? Huh buddy? huh?

nope




Empirical evidence supports both actual causation AND proximate causation in this instance.

So the aswer would be YES




:-\ A simple Yes would have sufficed LOL.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 19, 2005, 04:31:27 PM
good ole Tort law  :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 04:40:13 PM
Students from any school can work at law firms, that's not the point at issue here.  What IS at issue is that some schools have certain reps within the legal community.  For example, Santa Clara and Franklin Pierce are both known to produce IP and Patent lawyers.  Yale is known to produce judicial clerks and professors.  Harvard is a chop shop for corporate law firms. 

That being said, if you know you want to go into, let's say, public interest and you had your choice of any law school in the nation, Harvard would not be a logical selection based on that career choice.


I had to distinguish causation for RBG because after you cats readPalsgraff using the word causation takes on a whole new meaning.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 19, 2005, 04:48:17 PM

I had to distinguish causation for RBG because after you cats readPalsgraff using the word causation takes on a whole new meaning.


I had blk translate it for me.

Actual causation - "is something the cause of this to happen" (i knew this)

proximate - "was it forseeible for somthing to happen" ( i didn't)

there is still no causation. Going to Columbia doesn't cause you to go into biglaw (if that was what you were saying). And if you were saying that because lots of Columbia kids go into biglaw that causes USNews to rank them higher... well... that's just untrue.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 04:49:03 PM
TALES FROM THE CRIPT (aka Oral Arguments):

So a brother gets up there "May it please the court, my name is Burning Sands, and I represent the appellant"

I had 3 main things to get thru in my argument.  How about I didn't even get to so much as cite the first case in my first argument before they started blasting.  Interrupting ever 30 seconds with side issue questions designed to take you off track and everything.  You got to cite a case to prove a point, then they wanna ask you what federal district that case was decided in.

True Hazing at its finest.

Oh well, no more LRW forever!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 04:50:38 PM

I had to distinguish causation for RBG because after you cats readPalsgraff using the word causation takes on a whole new meaning.


I had blk translate it for me.

Actual causation - "is something the cause of this to happen" (i knew this)

proximate - "was it forseeible for somthing to happen" ( i didn't)

there is still no causation. Going to Columbia doesn't cause you to go into biglaw (if that was what you were saying). And if you were saying that because lots of Columbia kids go into biglaw that causes USNews to rank them higher... well... that's just untrue.

you had blk translate? 

LOL


I'll distinguish your argument in a second, my battery is dying on the old laptop
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 19, 2005, 05:01:36 PM
Yeah put the casebook away. Some of us are not in law school yet so we wouldn't have ANY idea what you are trying to convey.


Edit: Sands I think you logic is off to assume that certain schools are ranked so high because of the whole "big law factory" theory. Alumni, facilities, facility, and bar passage rates are also things to consider regardless if you follow the US New Reports or not.

OH yeah BTW SANDS...I'm interested in INTERNATIONAL LAW...and Columbia is one of the top two schools in the country for preparing their students for a career in that field. Not everyone desires to go the big law route. Being a successful attorney isn't all about making bank and shuffling papers in some corner office. If that is what people are looking forward too, then I feel really bad for them b/c they are going to be miserable.

FYI: Boalt, Stanford, and George Washington have the premiere IP programs in the country.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 19, 2005, 05:26:01 PM
Yeah put the casebook away. Some of us are not in law school yet so we wouldn't have ANY idea what you are trying to convey.


Edit: Sands I think you logic is off to assume that certain schools are ranked so high because of the whole "big law factory" theory. Alumni, facilities, facility, and bar passage rates are also things to consider regardless if you follow the US New Reports or not.

OH yeah BTW SANDS...I'm interested in INTERNATIONAL LAW...and Columbia is one of the top two schools in the country for preparing their students for a career in that field. Not everyone desires to go the big law route. Being a successful attorney isn't all about making bank and shuffling papers in some corner office. If that is what people are looking forward too, then I feel really bad for them b/c they are going to be miserable.

FYI: Boalt, Stanford, and George Washington have the premiere IP programs in the country.


I have been in law school and I dont understand what he was trying to convey.
Nah, just kidding.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 19, 2005, 05:36:01 PM
Yeah put the casebook away. Some of us are not in law school yet so we wouldn't have ANY idea what you are trying to convey.


Edit: Sands I think you logic is off to assume that certain schools are ranked so high because of the whole "big law factory" theory. Alumni, facilities, facility, and bar passage rates are also things to consider regardless if you follow the US New Reports or not.

OH yeah BTW SANDS...I'm interested in INTERNATIONAL LAW...and Columbia is one of the top two schools in the country for preparing their students for a career in that field. Not everyone desires to go the big law route. Being a successful attorney isn't all about making bank and shuffling papers in some corner office. If that is what people are looking forward too, then I feel really bad for them b/c they are going to be miserable.

FYI: Boalt, Stanford, and George Washington have the premiere IP programs in the country.


I have been in law school and I dont understand what he was trying to convey.
Nah, just kidding.

Glad it wasn't just me. I was feeling rather slow...  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 05:44:18 PM
Yeah put the casebook away. Some of us are not in law school yet so we wouldn't have ANY idea what you are trying to convey.

What will really bake your noodle later on is that some of you will STILL not have any idea after 1, 2 or even 3 years of law school.

Edit: Sands I think you logic is off to assume that certain schools are ranked so high because of the whole "big law factory" theory. Alumni, facilities, facility, and bar passage rates are also things to consider regardless if you follow the US New Reports or not.

I'd say you need to look a little more carefully on exactly HOW schools are ranked.  Read between the lines.   US's methodology grants 40% of a law school's rank to subjectivity from lawyers whom it selects to ask.  WHO do you think they're asking? 

OH yeah BTW SANDS...I'm interested in INTERNATIONAL LAW...and Columbia is one of the top two schools in the country for preparing their students for a career in that field. Not everyone desires to go the big law route. Being a successful attorney isn't all about making bank and shuffling papers in some corner office. If that is what people are looking forward too, then I feel really bad for them b/c they are going to be miserable.

FYI: Boalt, Stanford, and George Washington have the premiere IP programs in the country.


Somebody's not too familiar with the realm of IP I see.   Take a look at all the many IP boutiques in DC and see who they hire.  Many firms on the east coast recognize Santa Clara as one of the top computer law and high tech patent lawyers.  Of course they pull from GW b/c GW is in DC, but to stretch over and actually recruit kids from 3000 miles away makes a statement.  Not to mention one of their professors has literally written the book on patent litigation.


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 05:50:29 PM

I had to distinguish causation for RBG because after you cats readPalsgraff using the word causation takes on a whole new meaning.


I had blk translate it for me.

Actual causation - "is something the cause of this to happen" (i knew this)

proximate - "was it forseeible for somthing to happen" ( i didn't)

there is still no causation. Going to Columbia doesn't cause you to go into biglaw (if that was what you were saying). And if you were saying that because lots of Columbia kids go into biglaw that causes USNews to rank them higher... well... that's just untrue.

Your definitions of causation are in tact.  Now lets apply them to the argument here.

You argue that going to Columbia doesn't cause you to go into biglaw.  You'll get no argument from me on that statement. That's not what I was trying to prove.

Then you go onto say that because cats go into biglaw that that doesn't cause USNews to rank their school higher.  This couldn't be further from the truth so I have to respectfully disagree.

If you understand how these rankings are run, then you know that Big Law Partners are asked which schools they think are the highest.  That's why schools who produce top lawyers like Howard get no love on this section of the grading, because black attorneys by and large, as we discussed earlier on here, are not making partner.  There is no real reason why a law school like Howard is a so-called "Third Tier" law school other than a subjective ranking system.


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 19, 2005, 06:26:29 PM
Sands-

based on writ of coram nobis, I retort your conclusion by using facts from the Mann Actevidence found by the a priori assumption and malice which is based on the definition of abandonment that creates the fact by the magistrate. in absentia judgements supports my foundation....oh..excuse my brother..hypotheses.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 19, 2005, 06:28:55 PM
Sands-

based on writ of coram nobis, I retort your conclusion by using facts from the Mann Actevidence found by the a priori assumption and malice which is based on the definition of abandonment that creates the fact by the magistrate. in absentia judgements supports my foundation....oh..excuse my brother..hypotheses.

I'll take Zip #%@! for $1000 Alex  :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 06:35:50 PM
Sands-

based on writ of coram nobis, I retort your conclusion by using facts from the Mann Actevidence found by the a priori assumption and malice which is based on the definition of abandonment that creates the fact by the magistrate. in absentia judgements supports my foundation....oh..excuse my brother..hypotheses.

You see...my Bruh Thuh...the conspiracy, that's C O N - Spriacy, that continues to inflict the ramifications of the constituents here assembled thefefore further exacerbates the rhetorial enigma that holds true to the hypothesies...excuse me...hypocrasies of the inner sanctum of that magistrate's res judicata factor.  You see?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 19, 2005, 06:48:51 PM
You guys are some coons
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 19, 2005, 06:55:30 PM
Sands-

based on writ of coram nobis, I retort your conclusion by using facts from the Mann Actevidence found by the a priori assumption and malice which is based on the definition of abandonment that creates the fact by the magistrate. in absentia judgements supports my foundation....oh..excuse my brother..hypotheses.

You see...my Bruh Thuh...the conspiracy, that's C O N - Spriacy, that continues to inflict the ramifications of the constituents here assembled thefefore further exacerbates the rhetorial enigma that holds true to the hypothesies...excuse me...hypocrasies of the inner sanctum of that magistrate's res judicata factor.  You see?

No my bru-THU. I do not follow your illiquid irrationality. If you can insert your frontal lobe into the warm cavity of the feverishly awaiting grantor-grantee index you will find the truth based on my to wit.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 19, 2005, 06:58:34 PM
COONS
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 19, 2005, 11:42:44 PM
Nupe that Avatar is hot, yo.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 20, 2005, 12:03:38 AM
HBCU I OWN THAT AVATAR...you are using it without my permission nucka!  >:(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 20, 2005, 08:32:28 AM
I'm bored and it's early so I'll entertain the rankings debate for a second...

I have to say that I stand beside the National Association for Law School Placement (NALP) with their stance on law school rankings/ratings...


NALP does not rank law schools and discourages the use of rating systems or rank-ordered lists in evaluating law schools and their graduates for employment. Law schools are defined by many different, yet often interrelated, characteristics whose significance and relationship at a particular school may vary from year to year. No rigid ranking of law schools can quantify the subjective value of the education available at each school.


Now according to US News & World report.. rankings aren't solely determined by the Big Law partners (I was asked this question last night and couldn't provide a definitive answer before researching it)

For the five graduate program areas with the largest enrollments–business, education, engineering, law, and medicine–we use a combination of statistical data and expert assessment data. The statistical data we collect include both input and output measures. Input measures reflect the quality of students, faculty, and other resources brought to the education process. Output measures signal an institution's success in managing that process so graduates achieve desired results, such as passing the bar exam or getting a high-paying job offer.

The expert assessment data for these areas come from surveys of knowledgeable individuals in academia and practitioners in each profession. Survey respondents are asked to rate the programs with which they are familiar on a scale of "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5).

Statistical and assessment data are standardized about their means, and standardized scores are weighted, totaled, and rescaled so that the top score is 100 and other scores are expressed as whole percentages of the top score. Schools are then ranked by their rescaled score.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/faq_meth_brief.php#six


taken from prelaw handbook..

CRITERIA USED TO DETERMINE
THE RANKING OF THE
TOP PRESTIGIOUS LAW SCHOOLS


-Peer Assessment                   10%
-Lawyer and Judges Assessment      10%
-Assessment of University          20%
-UGPA Twenty-fifth Percentile       5%
-UGPA Seventy-fifth Percentile     10%
-LSAT Twenty-fifth Percentile    8.33%
-LSAT Seventy-fifth Percentile  16.67%
-EQR Faculty Quality Rankings      20%

so.. i guess the only question for me Sands  is.. where does it say that US' methodology grants 40% of a law school's rank to subjectivity from lawyers whom it selects to ask? was this assessment limited to the realm of IP law?

At the end of the day I think that the whole ratings game is what causes the most stress amongst law school applicants.. Just embrace the experience.. and go to the law school that YOU want to go to.. factor in the variables that are important to you.. it's your decision and you're the one that has to live with the path that you've chosen..

i've elaborated more on my personal experience here. http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,25605.0.html
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 20, 2005, 08:48:25 AM
HBCU I OWN THAT AVATAR...you are using it without my permission nucka!  >:(

u own it? lol.. i remember seeing it somewhere else :P :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 20, 2005, 08:55:44 AM
WE are taking over the world at my school.  I just won the election last night for Treasurer of the SBA!!!!!  Oh they done messed up now!  Funding for all minority groups!!!  Plus we got a member of BLSA as the President of SBA, and a member of BLSA as the Parliamentarian of SBA.

Its the takeover!

Pre-Laws, when you guys get to your respective law schools in the fall, make sure you get involved in BLSA first and foremost, but don't forget to look into the other interest groups, especially your school's SBA (Student Bar Assoc) chapter, b/c it is the Head Student Gov. Org at your law school that funds all the other groups. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 20, 2005, 09:18:31 AM

so.. i guess the only question for me Sands  is.. where does it say that US' methodology grants 40% of a law school's rank to subjectivity from lawyers whom it selects to ask? was this assessment limited to the realm of IP law?



Limited to IP? Are you kidding me here?  Look here, Counsel:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/06law_meth_brief.php

Quality Assessment (weighted by .40)

    * Peer Assessment Score (.25)
      In the fall of 2004, law school deans, deans of academic affairs, the chair of faculty appointments, and the most recently tenured faculty members were asked to rate programs on a scale from "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 70 percent of those surveyed responded.


    * Assessment Score by Lawyers/Judges (.15)
      In the fall of 2004, legal professionals, including the hiring partners of law firms, state attorneys general, and selected federal and state judges, were asked to rate programs on a scale from "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 27 percent of those surveyed responded.


Now I implore you to note two specific points. 

#1.  Who was asked
#2.  Of those who were asked, how many responded

If you don't see the subjectivity here, then there is no hope.  If this was a scientific study, which it actually proclaims to be to some extent, I could exploit this methodology all day.  The first step in any scientific research is to have as LARGE as a pool of subjects as possible.  If you are trying to do a study on black folk, and you pool the black people in Montana as your study, and assign weight to it, you have a flawed study b/c your are attempting to use INDUCTIVE reasoning (For all you LSAT takers out there) to draw a conclusion on a larger class from a small sample.

Beyond that, the entire idea of an overall school ranking is absurd unless you ask somebody who has attended all 180 ABA schools.  That's ridiculous right?  So is an overall ranking system.  Its deceptive and misleading.  Believe it or not, there are pre-laws on this board who actually thought that students at "tier 1's" learn different material than the students at the lower tiers.  And its not their fault they think that, look at how much stock is placed in the rankings.  An entire board of # whores on here and XOXO devoted to worshipping the numbers.  For the record, all law students learn the SAME law classes folks.

Not that I mind talking sh!t on the USNews but why are black folk debating this again...?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 20, 2005, 09:30:22 AM
Well, it looks like you and black agree Nupe. Yall need to simmer down.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 20, 2005, 09:44:58 AM
oh i'm chillin lol... we definitely agree ..(we're saying the same thing in essence)

the point that i was making though is that the 40% assessment that Sands was speaking on earlier.. .wasn't limited to a review of Big Law partners..some people assumed that was what he meant..

in the earlier accounting too much attention was focused on that one aspect of the rankings (big law partners)

he further elaborated with it in the direct quotes that he provided from the US World website...just as i did in the table i provided and us  link..


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 10:05:31 AM
I'm bored and it's early so I'll entertain the rankings debate for a second...

I have to say that I stand beside the National Association for Law School Placement (NALP) with their stance on law school rankings/ratings...


NALP does not rank law schools and discourages the use of rating systems or rank-ordered lists in evaluating law schools and their graduates for employment. Law schools are defined by many different, yet often interrelated, characteristics whose significance and relationship at a particular school may vary from year to year. No rigid ranking of law schools can quantify the subjective value of the education available at each school.


Now according to US News & World report.. rankings aren't solely determined by the Big Law partners (I was asked this question last night and couldn't provide a definitive answer before researching it)

For the five graduate program areas with the largest enrollments–business, education, engineering, law, and medicine–we use a combination of statistical data and expert assessment data. The statistical data we collect include both input and output measures. Input measures reflect the quality of students, faculty, and other resources brought to the education process. Output measures signal an institution's success in managing that process so graduates achieve desired results, such as passing the bar exam or getting a high-paying job offer.

The expert assessment data for these areas come from surveys of knowledgeable individuals in academia and practitioners in each profession. Survey respondents are asked to rate the programs with which they are familiar on a scale of "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5).

Statistical and assessment data are standardized about their means, and standardized scores are weighted, totaled, and rescaled so that the top score is 100 and other scores are expressed as whole percentages of the top score. Schools are then ranked by their rescaled score.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/faq_meth_brief.php#six


taken from prelaw handbook..

CRITERIA USED TO DETERMINE
THE RANKING OF THE
TOP PRESTIGIOUS LAW SCHOOLS


-Peer Assessment                   10%
-Lawyer and Judges Assessment      10%
-Assessment of University          20%
-UGPA Twenty-fifth Percentile       5%
-UGPA Seventy-fifth Percentile     10%
-LSAT Twenty-fifth Percentile    8.33%
-LSAT Seventy-fifth Percentile  16.67%
-EQR Faculty Quality Rankings      20%

so.. i guess the only question for me Sands  is.. where does it say that US' methodology grants 40% of a law school's rank to subjectivity from lawyers whom it selects to ask? was this assessment limited to the realm of IP law?

At the end of the day I think that the whole ratings game is what causes the most stress amongst law school applicants.. Just embrace the experience.. and go to the law school that YOU want to go to.. factor in the variables that are important to you.. it's your decision and you're the one that has to live with the path that you've chosen..

i've elaborated more on my personal experience here. http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,25605.0.html


Blk_reign_esq I agree with you about making the decision on what school that you want to attend.  Ultimately, the person is going to dictate their own success both in law school and after.  Everyone needs to make the decision about what is in their own best interest.  Going to the highest ranked law school is not what is always in everyone's best interest.  I know a state circuit court in Maryland who got accepted to Harvard many years ago and turned them down to attend the U of Maryland.  Harvard threw a bucket of money at him and he still turned them down.  He made the decision that he did not want to move his family.  Rightly or wrongly for everyone else, it was the right decision for him.  And at the end, everyone has to make their own decisions because they have to live with the consequences.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 20, 2005, 10:11:41 AM
thanks Law Professor :).. and welcome to the boards.. what law school did u attend if you don't mind me asking?


Look at Obama Baraka ..he got offered big law jobs left and right.. turned them down for a 15K position in Chicago after finishing @ Harvard.. look @ him now!


edit: see what typing too fast does  :D.. lol Barack Obama
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 10:39:24 AM
thanks Law Professor :).. and welcome to the boards.. what law school did u attend if you don't mind me asking?


Look at Obama Baraka ..he got offered big law jobs left and right.. turned them down for a 15K position in Chicago after finishing @ Harvard.. look @ him now!


Thank you.  Looks like lots of interesting discussions go on here.  I don't mind you asking and I attended the University of Florida.  You are right Obama could have accepted big law jobs but for his own reasons he determined that was not the path for him. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 20, 2005, 11:19:40 AM
thanks Law Professor :).. and welcome to the boards.. what law school did u attend if you don't mind me asking?


Look at Obama Baraka ..he got offered big law jobs left and right.. turned them down for a 15K position in Chicago after finishing @ Harvard.. look @ him now!


edit: see what typing too fast does  :D.. lol Barack Obama

I'm sure H was paying back his loans though.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 11:22:24 AM


I'm sure H was paying back his loans though.

Maybe not, perhaps he deferred them. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 20, 2005, 12:08:25 PM
Obama is the man.  He is scheduled to come to Rutgers in the fall to speak.  I'm kinda hype off that.

As far as the rankings most of us are saying the same thing.  However, based on some of the comments of late that we've seen on this board, the sad truth is that after all the wisdom that has been dropped here by law students and lawyers alike, there are some cats on here that will get caught up in the hype, and we won't hear from them anymore, and I think that's a shame. 

The reason why I hate the ranking system is because it inevitably breads the "Me myself and I" mentality among us, as opposed to the bigger picture of the "WE" mentality.  That selfish attitude is ok for the mainstream b/c they are the MAINstream, they don't have to reach back for anybody.  We're not in the driver's seat like that.  The minute you start thinking like that is the minute that we all fail.  Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) we have a burden/duty to help our brothers and sisters who are also trying to make it.  Let that divisiveness go.

In the great words of School Daze:  WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 12:14:19 PM
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 20, 2005, 12:49:42 PM
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

I see that you're speaking both figuratively and personally, so are you condoning the "I" mentality or merely commenting on it here?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 12:59:51 PM
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

I see that you're speaking both figuratively and personally, so are you condoning the "I" mentality or merely commenting on it here?

I condemn the "I" mentality.  Imagine if all the brothers and sisters that came before us had the "I got mines" mentatlity.  Neither you nor I would be where we are today. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 20, 2005, 01:05:27 PM
speak on it
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 20, 2005, 01:16:29 PM
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

I see that you're speaking both figuratively and personally, so are you condoning the "I" mentality or merely commenting on it here?

I condemn the "I" mentality.  Imagine if all the brothers and sisters that came before us had the "I got mines" mentatlity.  Neither you nor I would be where we are today. 


[standing up clapping]

That's real talk right there!  Now get the rest of these cats there!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 20, 2005, 01:26:17 PM
Question:      Should the federal government have been involved in the Schiavo case?
Yes    - 1 (7.1%)
No    - 13 (92.9%)
   Lock Voting
Edit Poll
Total Votes: 14
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 20, 2005, 01:32:10 PM
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 01:38:52 PM
I think that this discussion board is a great assistance.  You are allowing 1Ls and pre law students to come and gain some knowledge from  your experience.  Keep reaching back and giving and it will soon catch on.  Here is an example of walking the walk and not just talking the talk.  When I was attending UF they had a trial team (and still do as far as I know).  I had many people of color come to me to assist them in making it on the team.  For some reason when I tried out, I didnt make it (2 times), yet at the same time I was able to assist two women get on.  They told others and one came to me the next semester and asked me to help her and I did and she made it on and then next thing I know, I had my hands full helping people.  One semester alone I had 10 students that were seeking help.  I helped each and every one of those students.  I could have done the easy thing and said, sorry, I have my own studies to worry about.  But I did not do that.  I took time away from my busy schedule and assisted those students every night they were trying out.  By the time I graduated, I had assisted somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-15 people of color on the trial team.  Prior to my attending UF there had only been 3 people of color in the history of the trial team.  Now the point of that story is to show that if one person can do that, imagine what 10, 100 or 1000 law students of color can do.  Pass the word and roll your sleeves up and start working because we have a LONG way to go.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 01:40:18 PM
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian.  Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!!   ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 20, 2005, 01:41:18 PM
Let me be completely honest, I am one of those people Sands was referring to in regards to rankings and the "I" mentality. Perhaps it's due to age or my own life experiences but I will put my own personal comfort and needs above everyone else. The only individuals I'm willing to set aside my own comfort for is my family. Everyone else is secondary. There have been periods of time in my life where "I" had to be left at the door and  my actions affected a group. My individuality was forgotten and I had to act as one with other girls who I barely knew. Although valuable lessons were learned from those experiences and I came out a much better person because of it, but I felt really uncomfortable and I wouldn't relive those events again if someone paid me to.

Perhaps it is a control issue with me, or something else but I like to do what I want when I get ready to it without constraints. In terms of black people as a whole, I'm only willing to put my time and energies into someone who is willing to help themselves. Granted my views are rather controversial but I've witness too many people in my life giving their all to people who never took advantage of the opportunities given to them.

Believe it or not the vase majority of people have my mentality but are afraid to admit it because they don’t want others to think poorly of them. My personal belief is that why fake the funk? If most people had a selfless mentality the world would be dramatically different, don’t you think?

I’ve accomplish a lot because of my independent or “selfish”  attitude. My life isn’t revolved around what others think I should do or when I should do it. So many individuals are concerned with how others view them that they fail at reaching their full potential because of it.

AS for all this talk about the mainstream, some of you guys need a reality check. We live in a mainstream society people. Unless we decide to pack up all the black people and move to another planet, this is the world we are stuck with. The irony is that even then as human beings we would still find ways to exploit differences between one another.  However, there is a way to maintain your individuality and still work within the system, which is what I’m doing. I am quite proud of who I am and how I turned out as a black woman. Others may have problems with who I am but at the end of the day I’m the one who has to live within my own skin and look at myself in the mirror.

I Regal Muse am a rankings whore. I believe that the best schools make more opportunities available to me. Instead of having to kick the door open with a sledgehammer, I can walk through with my IVY degree. Now don’t get me wrong, as a black woman I do know I have to work 10X harder and produce better results than Becky, John, Chen Young, and even Garcia. Nevertheless, I know what I have to do, especially in such a prestige driven occupation. Those of you who insist on playing head games with yourselves for whatever reason will probably be left behind in the process.

That’s my 2 cents....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 20, 2005, 01:47:02 PM
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

I see that you're speaking both figuratively and personally, so are you condoning the "I" mentality or merely commenting on it here?

I condemn the "I" mentality.  Imagine if all the brothers and sisters that came before us had the "I got mines" mentatlity.  Neither you nor I would be where we are today. 

Exactly what Dr. Akbar was talking about. He is that last person I would say needs a "reality check".

I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian. Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!! ;D

Word.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 20, 2005, 02:34:00 PM
this is an interesting discussion and i agree that we need to continue to reach back and help others, thats how i was raised. i wanted to respond to sands perception of black people "caught in the numbers game" becoming apart of the "me, myself and i" mentality. i know i'm sensitive about this kind of stuff, but i disagree with that assessment of black folks who go to those "ranked" schools. one thing i will say for my education and my experience with black folks, the "me myself and i" mentality is everywhere, and i experienced it more from students i met from hbcu's and other "so-called" lower ranked schools than at my undergrad and some others who were similarly ranked. i don't know why i have those perceptions, but it comes from my personal experience. i have met dr. akbar, and i have heard him speak more than once. he has always said, go to the centers of knowledge here and take what they have, go to the centers of knowledge in the african world and learn that, then you will be empowered to help your people. i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me. i've been in many situations where white men/women have ignored what i said until i said i graduated from ... then the whole tone of the conversation changed. my hope is to use that for my community. and i know many more people who went to school with me who feel the same way. of course i have good friends who think like regal too, and its all good, do what you do. i just know that everything i have/will attain is built on the backs of the ancestors, so if one individual doesn't necessarily "want to improve themselves" (although i don't agree with that terminology), thats fine, i did my part, and i'll just reach out to the next person. sorry i wrote so much, i just think that there are plenty of people who play the #s game in order to help folks in the future as well. obama is only one very prominent example.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 20, 2005, 02:46:30 PM
this is an interesting discussion and i agree that we need to continue to reach back and help others, thats how i was raised. i wanted to respond to sands perception of black people "caught in the numbers game" becoming apart of the "me, myself and i" mentality. i know i'm sensitive about this kind of stuff, but i disagree with that assessment of black folks who go to those "ranked" schools. one thing i will say for my education and my experience with black folks, the "me myself and i" mentality is everywhere, and i experienced it more from students i met from hbcu's and other "so-called" lower ranked schools than at my undergrad and some others who were similarly ranked. i don't know why i have those perceptions, but it comes from my personal experience. i have met dr. akbar, and i have heard him speak more than once. he has always said, go to the centers of knowledge here and take what they have, go to the centers of knowledge in the african world and learn that, then you will be empowered to help your people. i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me. i've been in many situations where white men/women have ignored what i said until i said i graduated from ... then the whole tone of the conversation changed. my hope is to use that for my community. and i know many more people who went to school with me who feel the same way. of course i have good friends who think like regal too, and its all good, do what you do. i just know that everything i have/will attain is built on the backs of the ancestors, so if one individual doesn't necessarily "want to improve themselves" (although i don't agree with that terminology), thats fine, i did my part, and i'll just reach out to the next person. sorry i wrote so much, i just think that there are plenty of people who play the #s game in order to help folks in the future as well. obama is only one very prominent example.

Don't apologize for the length, unless your talking nonsense  ;). But I feel where you're coming from, some black people have the me, myself, and I attitude no matter where they go to school. I see *some* (only a few) of it at my LS and I'm like, wtf?? What's that all about? But you best believe, when BLSA is having a party, or having outlining sessions and other similar things, they they first ones in line..... ::) I'm sure other people have seen this on a smaller scale in UG. Hell, look at Michael Jackson, he tried to literally become white, but as soon as all this legal trouble started it's because he's a black man, he's being persecuted like Nelson Mandela (still can't believe he said that  :() It's a mess girl. And of course, I say go to the best school for YOU. For the most part, I don't believe that anyone is discounting the seriousness of the system re: "prestigiousness" as it is today, my only issue comes in when black students don't want to give back, don't they realize that they are able to attend the "prestigious" institutions that they are b/c black people before them did just that! To me, it's shitting on that legacy........
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 20, 2005, 02:54:03 PM
Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 02:56:41 PM
this is an interesting discussion and i agree that we need to continue to reach back and help others, thats how i was raised. i wanted to respond to sands perception of black people "caught in the numbers game" becoming apart of the "me, myself and i" mentality. i know i'm sensitive about this kind of stuff, but i disagree with that assessment of black folks who go to those "ranked" schools. one thing i will say for my education and my experience with black folks, the "me myself and i" mentality is everywhere, and i experienced it more from students i met from hbcu's and other "so-called" lower ranked schools than at my undergrad and some others who were similarly ranked. i don't know why i have those perceptions, but it comes from my personal experience. i have met dr. akbar, and i have heard him speak more than once. he has always said, go to the centers of knowledge here and take what they have, go to the centers of knowledge in the african world and learn that, then you will be empowered to help your people. i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me. i've been in many situations where white men/women have ignored what i said until i said i graduated from ... then the whole tone of the conversation changed. my hope is to use that for my community. and i know many more people who went to school with me who feel the same way. of course i have good friends who think like regal too, and its all good, do what you do. i just know that everything i have/will attain is built on the backs of the ancestors, so if one individual doesn't necessarily "want to improve themselves" (although i don't agree with that terminology), thats fine, i did my part, and i'll just reach out to the next person. sorry i wrote so much, i just think that there are plenty of people who play the #s game in order to help folks in the future as well. obama is only one very prominent example.

Don't apologize for the length, unless your talking nonsense  ;). But I feel where you're coming from, some black people have the me, myself, and I attitude no matter where they go to school. I see *some* (only a few) of it at my LS and I'm like, wtf?? What's that all about? But you best believe, when BLSA is having a party, or having outlining sessions and other similar things, they they first ones in line..... ::) I'm sure other people have seen this on a smaller scale in UG. Hell, look at Michael Jackson, he tried to literally become white, but as soon as all this legal trouble started it's because he's a black man, he's being persecuted like Nelson Mandela (still can't believe he said that  :() It's a mess girl. And of course, I say go to the best school for YOU. For the most part, I don't believe that anyone is discounting the seriousness of the system re: "prestigiousness" as it is today, my only issue comes in when black students don't want to give back, don't they realize that they are able to attend the "prestigious" institutions that they are b/c black people before them did just that! To me, it's shitting on that legacy........

Ladyday, you have said it all.  I dont have anything else to say.  Now watch, I am going to go and say something anyway.  That is me, you will get used to it.  I am not saying that you should go to a lesser school or a HBCU.  I am saying go to the school that you want to go to for whatever reasons you want.  Whether it is that is the only school you got in to, it is the highest ranked school you got in to, it is on the west/east coast.  What I am saying is that everyone makes their own decisions for them what school they want to go to and there is nothing wrong with that.  My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  The problem with the "I" mentality is that while it might help you or at least you think it is helping you, it is really not.  Because think about it like this....if we never progress as a people, ultimately, you are the one that is hurt.  I just think we have to think in a broader way with more vision toward the future.  If you are only always thinking about yourself, how do you get the strength to ask for help when you are never willing to give help.  
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 02:58:41 PM
Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?

But if you take that mentality, when do you ever try to help because you are going to always be trying to get your business on point.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 20, 2005, 03:09:08 PM
Ladyday, you have said it all.  I dont have anything else to say.  Now watch, I am going to go and say something anyway.  That is me, you will get used to it.  I am not saying that you should go to a lesser school or a HBCU.  I am saying go to the school that you want to go to for whatever reasons you want.  Whether it is that is the only school you got in to, it is the highest ranked school you got in to, it is on the west/east coast.  What I am saying is that everyone makes their own decisions for them what school they want to go to and there is nothing wrong with that.  My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  The problem with the "I" mentality is that while it might help you or at least you think it is helping you, it is really not.  Because think about it like this....if we never progress as a people, ultimately, you are the one that is hurt.  I just think we have to think in a broader way with more vision toward the future.  If you are only always thinking about yourself, how do you get the strength to ask for help when you are never willing to give help. 

Exactly. Re: the bold, it's called having the "audacity" to do it.

Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?

But if you take that mentality, when do you ever try to help because you are going to always be trying to get your business on point.

Sometimes people use it as an excuse not to help out. Or their not confident enough in themselves. Or a lot of other things........ I've got to do this, I've got to do that, I'm working on this for myself, I, I, I. We wouldn't be able to attend LS today if our ancestors had defeatest attitudes and didn't see helping uplift our community as important. I just don't get it  ???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 20, 2005, 03:13:27 PM
hey..i hope that when you guys get your JDs and start making moves financially... you consider working together and starting some sort of movement.. we have our own little community on this board.. and there are many opportunities that are being afforded to us that our grandparents didn't even dream of... let's pull together and make things happen..
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 20, 2005, 03:16:02 PM
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian.  Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!!   ;D


(Gulp) (In a soft voice) I aint skerd!  >:(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 20, 2005, 03:17:24 PM
 The examples you guys are using are extreme.

Quote
My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  

There is a difference between working smart and just being a straight jackass. I share my notes and give study techniques all the time but I don't call that giving back to the community per se nor do I expect anything in return. I'll use the Lsats for example. I scored in the 99th percentile. While I was studying I didn't really help anyone because I was struggling to master the exam myself. Hell if I offered any kind of assistance during that time, I might have caused someone to blow the test themselves.  However after my results came in and everything was all said and done I offered my notes and even tutored people free of charge I knew were struggle. Let me make clear that those individuals were making efforts to help themselves. They didn't expect me to do all the work or take the freaking test for them. Some people would see that as me giving back, while I view it as being a decent human being. There is right and there is wrong. Hiding notes or tearing pages out of book is beyond ridiculous. My accomplishments didn’t come from stepping on others or expecting a hand out.

Lets keep it real for a moment; Martin Luther King and Malcolm X give back. The little stuff we do is remedial compared to the strides those men made in society.  Nevertheless I still believe that you can’t help anyone unless you help yourself first. I’ll use an example a pretty intelligent person recently said to me  “How are you going to be helping someone when you are eating government cheese yourself?” No pun intended but you see my point? Clean your own house first...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 20, 2005, 03:23:23 PM
Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?

i am not sure i understand exactly what you mean, but i do think that apart of having your business on point is giving back. you look at someone like kenneth chenault, or some of the foundations out there and their method was to become apart of the corporate world, and then fund the institutions that they agree with, even bill cosby's hbcu/temple fund was something similar to that. their gifts are different than mine, so i don't see myself doing the corporate thing as a career, but they have made philanthropy a priority in their personal lives for a reason i think. my personal opinion though is that all it takes is helping one person to change the world. just think, what if malcolm x's mentor in prison hadn't reached out to him. or his brother hadn't written to him. those men weren't necessarily "on point" in terms of their business, they were strugglin too, but them taking those few seconds to reach back changed the world. i believe that when you help other people, you can't help but be lifted. ok, i'll stop being so damn cheesy :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 03:35:55 PM
The examples you guys are using are extreme.

Quote
My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  

There is a difference between working smart and just being a straight jackass. I share my notes and give study techniques all the time but I don't call that giving back to the community per se nor do I expect anything in return. I'll use the Lsats for example. I scored in the 99th percentile. While I was studying I didn't really help anyone because I was struggling to master the exam myself. Hell if I offered any kind of assistance during that time, I might have caused someone to blow the test themselves.  However after my results came in and everything was all said and done I offered my notes and even tutored people free of charge I knew were struggle. Let me make clear that those individuals were making efforts to help themselves. They didn't expect me to do all the work or take the freaking test for them. Some people would see that as me giving back, while I view it as being a decent human being. There is right and there is wrong. Hiding notes or tearing pages out of book is beyond ridiculous. My accomplishments didn’t come from stepping on others or expecting a hand out.

Lets keep it real for a moment; Martin Luther King and Malcolm X give back. The little stuff we do is remedial compared to the strides those men made in society.  Nevertheless I still believe that you can’t help anyone unless you help yourself first. I’ll use an example a pretty intelligent person recently said to me  “How are you going to be helping someone when you are eating government cheese yourself?” No pun intended but you see my point? Clean your own house first...


Hey Muse, I get you now, and I see what you were saying.  I say what you did is giving back.  I applaud anyone who has the fortitude to turn around and assist others behind them to achieve. And let me tell you, there are many people out there who have outlines and dont offer them, and have information and dont tell it.  They view that as looking out for themselves because if they are they only person of color with the information, they figure they will get the highest score.  I understand if you are studying for the LSAT you cant really help others because you dont know if what you are doing is right.  However, there are always ways of assisting people, be it giving encouragement to people, or giving them a push when they look like they are about to quit.  It does not have to be teaching them how to do something after you finished doing it.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 03:45:32 PM
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian.  Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!!   ;D


(Gulp) (In a soft voice) I aint skerd!  >:(

you should be, SU aint no joke....I am going to call my professor friends there to get you.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 20, 2005, 03:49:31 PM

Those foundations you speak of are getting some really nice tax incentives as well.... :P People don't donate millions of dollars without benefiting from it in the long run.

But anyway I understand what you are saying. My point is that you can't help someone else until you are on point yourself

All of you people who want to do big law, who exactly are you helping besides some rich white folks and yourselves? ;D

Greed makes the world go around, and none of you are above that.

Why go to law school in the first place  if you want to save the world and give back? I've only seen two or three people who actually said they want to do public interest/civil rights law on here.  ::) What about the rest of you?  What’s your excuse?

Deep down we are all self driven/motivated beings. If going to law school didn't somehow benefit you in the long run, most of you would be doing something else.


Lawprofessor,

My view of looking out for myself is to make sure I'm not a burden to my family or society. Looking out for me doesn't include stepping on someone in the process or cheating my way to the top. I'm all for healthy competition because that drives human beings. Besides I want to beat another individual fair and square so they know  that I'm the sh*t LOL...

Based on the examples given in this thread, I "give" back all the time; perhaps more so than most people. However, I don't wear it as a badge or anything. If mentoring, community service, or various organizations I run interfered with my ultimate goal, I wouldn't do it.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 20, 2005, 03:55:50 PM
"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

God, I would hate to live my life like this. Dr. King graduated from Morehouse College (An HBCU) with a 2.0 gpa. Thurgood Marshall Graduated from Howard Law (an HBCU) after he got reject from the University Of Maryland. These guys made if possible for ALL of you to go to the school of your choice. They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY. They did it because they had conviction and they actually had something to say.

Don't make decisions about your life to make white people happy.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 20, 2005, 03:58:16 PM
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian.  Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!!   ;D


(Gulp) (In a soft voice) I aint skerd!  >:(

you should be, SU aint no joke....I am going to call my professor friends there to get you.

okokokokokokokokook! I'll get you a soda.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 20, 2005, 04:01:46 PM
This board is like a case study for brown vs. board of edu. "what doll is the pretty doll? Is it the black doll or white doll?"
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 20, 2005, 04:03:46 PM
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian.  Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!!   ;D


(Gulp) (In a soft voice) I aint skerd!  >:(

you should be, SU aint no joke....I am going to call my professor friends there to get you.

okokokokokokokokook! I'll get you a soda.

while you're at it.. get me some pineapple juice
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 20, 2005, 04:06:42 PM
thats funny hbcu, i don't have a problem with black folks from any school. i gained from the resources at the ivy league institution i graduated from. and imo i want to be able to speak for my community and have people listen. and trust, i have alot to say. there are black people who graduated from ivy league schools that have affected us as well. Dr. Dubois went to Fisk, then transferred to Harvard. Cornel West went to harvard too. i'm not about making white folks happy, i'm about forcing them to listen in whatever way possible, be it folks standing outside of the state capital building or me saying i studied this with ... at harvard for example. either way it goes, i don't think they will be happy about what i have to say...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 20, 2005, 04:14:07 PM
thats funny hbcu, i don't have a problem with black folks from any school. i gained from the resources at the ivy league institution i graduated from. and imo i want to be able to speak for my community and have people listen. and trust, i have alot to say. there are black people who graduated from ivy league schools that have affected us as well. Dr. Dubois went to Fisk, then transferred to Harvard. Cornel West went to harvard too. i'm not about making white folks happy, i'm about forcing them to listen in whatever way possible, be it folks standing outside of the state capital building or me saying i studied this with ... at harvard for example. either way it goes, i don't think they will be happy about what i have to say...

thats funny, I don't think you even read my post. I NEVER said that you have a problem with black people. Period. I NEVER said that black people from IVY have not made contributions to the race.

You ARE about making white folks happy. It's in your quote. I'll put it up there for you again.

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

WTF kinda sh*t if this coming out of your mouth? Is this what they teach you at the IVY school you graduated from? There is not ONE person on this board that agrees with this statement of yours. Not even One. This statement is an example of how much you hate yourself and that is ALL i'm talking about. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 20, 2005, 04:15:16 PM
you know u're on point with this... i remember having a layover one day on my way back to dc and i was one of the only black people sitting in the waiting area @ the time.. i was just sitting there actually..minding my own business...and this white guy was looking at me like i was crazy...

long story short.. i took my jacket off and just so happened to have on a law school sweatshirt.. at that point he decided that he was open for conversation. ::)

needless to say i gave him a piece of my mind about the fact that he deemed it necessary that a person of color had to be doing something that was "impressive" to his standards in order to be worthy of his conversation..

u know i respect all of you guys...but it did throw me off to read that some of you are concerned about white folks acceptance.... a lot of white folks are still going to view you as a N with a Harvard Law Degree (for example)... the school that you attend may get you in the door quicker.. but what you do with the knowledge that you obtain at these schools is what's impressive..

let's not live our lives trying to seek out the white man's approval..

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

God, I would hate to live my life like this. Dr. King graduated from Morehouse College (An HBCU) with a 2.0 gpa. Thurgood Marshall Graduated from Howard Law (an HBCU) after he got reject from the University Of Maryland. These guys made if possible for ALL of you to go to the school of your choice. They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY. They did it because they had conviction and they actually had something to say.

Don't make decisions about your life to make white people happy.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 20, 2005, 04:18:03 PM
Shoot, I don't care what negros or crackas think   :P :-* ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 04:25:00 PM
Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?

i am not sure i understand exactly what you mean, but i do think that apart of having your business on point is giving back. you look at someone like kenneth chenault, or some of the foundations out there and their method was to become apart of the corporate world, and then fund the institutions that they agree with, even bill cosby's hbcu/temple fund was something similar to that. their gifts are different than mine, so i don't see myself doing the corporate thing as a career, but they have made philanthropy a priority in their personal lives for a reason i think. my personal opinion though is that all it takes is helping one person to change the world. just think, what if malcolm x's mentor in prison hadn't reached out to him. or his brother hadn't written to him. those men weren't necessarily "on point" in terms of their business, they were strugglin too, but them taking those few seconds to reach back changed the world. i believe that when you help other people, you can't help but be lifted. ok, i'll stop being so damn cheesy :D

AMEN, Tell it like it is, Sista!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 06:05:22 PM
you know u're on point with this... i remember having a layover one day on my way back to dc and i was one of the only black people sitting in the waiting area @ the time.. i was just sitting there actually..minding my own business...and this white guy was looking at me like i was crazy...

long story short.. i took my jacket off and just so happened to have on a law school sweatshirt.. at that point he decided that he was open for conversation. ::)

needless to say i gave him a piece of my mind about the fact that he deemed it necessary that a person of color had to be doing something that was "impressive" to his standards in order to be worthy of his conversation..

u know i respect all of you guys...but it did throw me off to read that some of you are concerned about white folks acceptance.... a lot of white folks are still going to view you as a N with a Harvard Law Degree (for example)... the school that you attend may get you in the door quicker.. but what you do with the knowledge that you obtain at these schools is what's impressive..

let's not live our lives trying to seek out the white man's approval..

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

God, I would hate to live my life like this. Dr. King graduated from Morehouse College (An HBCU) with a 2.0 gpa. Thurgood Marshall Graduated from Howard Law (an HBCU) after he got reject from the University Of Maryland. These guys made if possible for ALL of you to go to the school of your choice. They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY. They did it because they had conviction and they actually had something to say.

Don't make decisions about your life to make white people happy.

*Bows to you*  Look, lets be realistic, if we are going to operate in the real world we are going to have to be concerned about white people and what they think to a certain extent, white people run most things.  We have to be concerned to some extent or we will be at a disadvantage.  But with that concern must come the ability to rise above it and not let it control you, your actions and who you become. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 06:06:09 PM
Shoot, I don't care what negros or crackas think   :P :-* ;D

You stupid, Cole.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 20, 2005, 06:18:38 PM
thats funny hbcu, i don't have a problem with black folks from any school. i gained from the resources at the ivy league institution i graduated from. and imo i want to be able to speak for my community and have people listen. and trust, i have alot to say. there are black people who graduated from ivy league schools that have affected us as well. Dr. Dubois went to Fisk, then transferred to Harvard. Cornel West went to harvard too. i'm not about making white folks happy, i'm about forcing them to listen in whatever way possible, be it folks standing outside of the state capital building or me saying i studied this with ... at harvard for example. either way it goes, i don't think they will be happy about what i have to say...

thats funny, I don't think you even read my post. I NEVER said that you have a problem with black people. Period. I NEVER said that black people from IVY have not made contributions to the race.

You ARE about making white folks happy. It's in your quote. I'll put it up there for you again.

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

WTF kinda sh*t if this coming out of your mouth? Is this what they teach you at the IVY school you graduated from? There is not ONE person on this board that agrees with this statement of yours. Not even One. This statement is an example of how much you hate yourself and that is ALL i'm talking about. 

Look, I think in the end, as the saying goes....there is more than one way to skin a cat.  You can go to an HBCU or you can go to IVY, as long as you are doing something positive and giving back, it does not matter.  The fight is not in where you decide to gain your knowledge, it is about gaining that knowledge and bringing it back and putting it to use for your people.  I didnt get my degrees from black institutions, but the education I received I am using in a positive way for my people as much as I can.  Whether you are a role model, a tutor, giving money, there are many ways to give back.  I think everyone is trying to get across the same point.  Lets not get caught up in semantics. 

One think I will point out Muse....You cant always think about yourself in the equation.  You said something like if helping someone was going to hurt you in reaching your ultimate goal, you wouldnt help.  But first, how do you know what is going to help you or hurt you.  And here is an example....you scored in the 99th percentile of the LSAT, right?  What if you would have scored in the 98th percentile but assisted someone else in scoring high enough to get into law school, but you couldnt have gone to the IVY of your choice, are you saying your wouldnt have helped that person?  By the same token, what if you would have dropped to the 90th percentile?  Sometimes there is a bigger picture and think about this, it is not the ultimate destination but the journey that is the important thing.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 21, 2005, 08:20:35 AM
OK which one of you black republicans voted yes??
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 21, 2005, 08:59:42 AM
"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

God, I would hate to live my life like this. Dr. King graduated from Morehouse College (An HBCU) with a 2.0 gpa. Thurgood Marshall Graduated from Howard Law (an HBCU) after he got reject from the University Of Maryland. These guys made if possible for ALL of you to go to the school of your choice. They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY. They did it because they had conviction and they actually had something to say.

Don't make decisions about your life to make white people happy.

thats funny, I don't think you even read my post. I NEVER said that you have a problem with black people. Period. I NEVER said that black people from IVY have not made contributions to the race.

You ARE about making white folks happy. It's in your quote. I'll put it up there for you again.

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

WTF kinda sh*t if this coming out of your mouth? Is this what they teach you at the IVY school you graduated from? There is not ONE person on this board that agrees with this statement of yours. Not even One. This statement is an example of how much you hate yourself and that is ALL i'm talking about.

my perception that you thought black people graduating from ivy league schools didn't contribute was taken from the statement "They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY." I was not really in this discussion or discussion board to come at any person in a way that is super confrontational, because that is just not who i am. i will be the first to admit that all black people have serious problems with self hatred and self acceptance. i think about those types of issues daily and i think that accepting the damage that white supremacy and colonization has done to us is the first step in beginning to take back the legacy of african people all over the world. i am one of those people who is planning to go into public interest/human rights law and i've been committed to this type of work in hs, college and today as well. because this is anonymous, you don't know me, and neither do most of the people on this board, so i really don't know why anyone would take the time to discuss my opinions on the way i pursue my education on their free time. its all good though. its all love in the end for me. my opinion on the issue of social change is that it comes from the bottom up, not from the top down, so the people are the ones that change situations, and they are the ones who made it possible for me to go to any school, anywhere. i guess i mean that my role in any of this is to use the gifts that i have, and they happen to be academic. there are others whose gifts are in organizing, and i see my role as helping to keep them out of jail, working, and helping to create self-sustaining institutions so that it will be possible for my children to have a path that allows them to avoid having to be apart of this sh** all together. and if thats what you're about, then more power to you.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 21, 2005, 09:14:54 AM
Bump for my unreads cause I missed all of this.  It's too much to go back and read, but who said this?: "i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 21, 2005, 09:54:52 AM
Bump for my unreads cause I missed all of this.  It's too much to go back and read, but who said this?: "i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."



bp--that was me. its all good. i didn't realize that it would cause so much controversy, but hey, thats the way i feel. its based on my experiences.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 09:56:10 AM

my perception that you thought black people graduating from ivy league schools didn't contribute was taken from the statement "They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY." I was not really in this discussion or discussion board to come at any person in a way that is super confrontational, because that is just not who i am. i will be the first to admit that all black people have serious problems with self hatred and self acceptance. i think about those types of issues daily and i think that accepting the damage that white supremacy and colonization has done to us is the first step in beginning to take back the legacy of african people all over the world. i am one of those people who is planning to go into public interest/human rights law and i've been committed to this type of work in hs, college and today as well. because this is anonymous, you don't know me, and neither do most of the people on this board, so i really don't know why anyone would take the time to discuss my opinions on the way i pursue my education on their free time. its all good though. its all love in the end for me. my opinion on the issue of social change is that it comes from the bottom up, not from the top down, so the people are the ones that change situations, and they are the ones who made it possible for me to go to any school, anywhere. i guess i mean that my role in any of this is to use the gifts that i have, and they happen to be academic. there are others whose gifts are in organizing, and i see my role as helping to keep them out of jail, working, and helping to create self-sustaining institutions so that it will be possible for my children to have a path that allows them to avoid having to be apart of this sh** all together. and if thats what you're about, then more power to you.

Faith, I think you are on the proper path.  You are going to be giving back in your way and that is what it is all about.  I say Kudos to you.  Good luck with everything that you do and best of luck in your future plans as an attorney.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 09:59:17 AM
Bump for my unreads cause I missed all of this.  It's too much to go back and read, but who said this?: "i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."



bp--that was me. its all good. i didn't realize that it would cause so much controversy, but hey, thats the way i feel. its based on my experiences.

Hey Faith, I feel you, but here is where I think your one flaw is with that theory.  White people are not going to listen to you anyway, even if you went to a prestigious institution.  They might listen to you after you have proven yourself, but usually you have to prove yourself over and over.  But it is cool.  I dont think your saying caused a controversy, just gave something for discussion.  Discussion is always good.  I dont have any personal anger toward you.  In my heart, I feel nothing but luv. :-*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 21, 2005, 10:14:17 AM
i feel that lawprofessor. if i had a theory like that it would be flawed. but i have to say, i didn't think it all out like that when i started applying to college. i realized in hs that i had skills in certain areas, and then i realized that those skills got me into some excellent schools, howard included. i prayed about it, talked with my parents, looked at the money situation and made a choice. thats the only theory i have, to trust in God and do what you think is right.

like blk_reign said, getting in the door is only 10% of the battle, and maybe not even that much. and truthfully thats all i need my diploma to do, b/c being friends with/associates with a large # of white people doesn't appeal to me in anyway. i just got involved b/c i wanted to make it clear that there are folks at those other schools who are interested in social justice/civil rights/human rights as well.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 21, 2005, 10:17:17 AM
"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

God, I would hate to live my life like this. Dr. King graduated from Morehouse College (An HBCU) with a 2.0 gpa. Thurgood Marshall Graduated from Howard Law (an HBCU) after he got reject from the University Of Maryland. These guys made if possible for ALL of you to go to the school of your choice. They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY. They did it because they had conviction and they actually had something to say.

Don't make decisions about your life to make white people happy.

thats funny, I don't think you even read my post. I NEVER said that you have a problem with black people. Period. I NEVER said that black people from IVY have not made contributions to the race.

You ARE about making white folks happy. It's in your quote. I'll put it up there for you again.

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

WTF kinda sh*t if this coming out of your mouth? Is this what they teach you at the IVY school you graduated from? There is not ONE person on this board that agrees with this statement of yours. Not even One. This statement is an example of how much you hate yourself and that is ALL i'm talking about.

my perception that you thought black people graduating from ivy league schools didn't contribute was taken from the statement "They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY." I was not really in this discussion or discussion board to come at any person in a way that is super confrontational, because that is just not who i am. i will be the first to admit that all black people have serious problems with self hatred and self acceptance. i think about those types of issues daily and i think that accepting the damage that white supremacy and colonization has done to us is the first step in beginning to take back the legacy of african people all over the world. i am one of those people who is planning to go into public interest/human rights law and i've been committed to this type of work in hs, college and today as well. because this is anonymous, you don't know me, and neither do most of the people on this board, so i really don't know why anyone would take the time to discuss my opinions on the way i pursue my education on their free time. its all good though. its all love in the end for me. my opinion on the issue of social change is that it comes from the bottom up, not from the top down, so the people are the ones that change situations, and they are the ones who made it possible for me to go to any school, anywhere. i guess i mean that my role in any of this is to use the gifts that i have, and they happen to be academic. there are others whose gifts are in organizing, and i see my role as helping to keep them out of jail, working, and helping to create self-sustaining institutions so that it will be possible for my children to have a path that allows them to avoid having to be apart of this sh** all together. and if thats what you're about, then more power to you.


Look. This is a message board that I created to discuss issues. If you don't understnad why I care about the way you think perhaps you should stop posting to this board. Did you really go to Yale?

I don't know why you keep trying to act like I care what school you go to. I said it before and I'll say it again. IT DOES NOT MATTER to me. The problem is YOU think it does.   

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive meand listen to me."

You hate yourself and I feel sorry for you. Stop posting to BLSD.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 21, 2005, 10:23:14 AM
you know u're on point with this... i remember having a layover one day on my way back to dc and i was one of the only black people sitting in the waiting area @ the time.. i was just sitting there actually..minding my own business...and this white guy was looking at me like i was crazy...

long story short.. i took my jacket off and just so happened to have on a law school sweatshirt.. at that point he decided that he was open for conversation. ::)

needless to say i gave him a piece of my mind about the fact that he deemed it necessary that a person of color had to be doing something that was "impressive" to his standards in order to be worthy of his conversation..

u know i respect all of you guys...but it did throw me off to read that some of you are concerned about white folks acceptance.... a lot of white folks are still going to view you as a N with a Harvard Law Degree (for example)... the school that you attend may get you in the door quicker.. but what you do with the knowledge that you obtain at these schools is what's impressive..

let's not live our lives trying to seek out the white man's approval..

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

God, I would hate to live my life like this. Dr. King graduated from Morehouse College (An HBCU) with a 2.0 gpa. Thurgood Marshall Graduated from Howard Law (an HBCU) after he got reject from the University Of Maryland. These guys made if possible for ALL of you to go to the school of your choice. They didn't do it by graduating from the IVY. They didn't get the white man to listen to them by graduating from the IVY. They did it because they had conviction and they actually had something to say.

Don't make decisions about your life to make white people happy.

*Bows to you*  Look, lets be realistic, if we are going to operate in the real world we are going to have to be concerned about white people and what they think to a certain extent, white people run most things.  We have to be concerned to some extent or we will be at a disadvantage.  But with that concern must come the ability to rise above it and not let it control you, your actions and who you become. 


We should be concerned about how the entire world views us. That still aint gonna stop me from being who I am. I have knowledge of self.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 21, 2005, 10:27:59 AM
Okay so I read back and got the jist of what was said.  Faith, in some ways I kinda see what you are saying (from your posts and not from that single quote) but you should have known that that quote would have caused a mini-riot in here.  I'll speak for me by saying that I know you don't hate yourself or your people, actually quite the opposite (that's harsh IMO HBCU, but hey you are entitled to your opinion as well).  I just wish we could find ways to keep it civil when we disagree.

(unless it's with RBG, but that's a different story);)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 21, 2005, 11:26:27 AM
Okay so I read back and got the jist of what was said.  Faith, in some ways I kinda see what you are saying (from your posts and not from that single quote) but you should have known that that quote would have caused a mini-riot in here.  I'll speak for me by saying that I know you don't hate yourself or your people, actually quite the opposite (that's harsh IMO HBCU, but hey you are entitled to your opinion as well).  I just wish we could find ways to keep it civil when we disagree.

(unless it's with RBG, but that's a different story);)

I say alot of crazy stuff on this board but I have never seen anything like this before. Perhaps I'll have to go back and read some of her post but, she didn't even apologize for making such a statement like that. I think she hates herself dude. I mean come on BP. If you say “I want white people to like me” I’ll have a serious problem with that. I can’t see why people don’t understand why that would piss me off. Everybody says to her “I understand where you are coming from..”  man….this is crazy. I’m moving on though. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 11:36:42 AM
Hey, what happened to the Howard and HBCU line of posts????? It is gone..someone got caught up in their feelings.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blaqueangel on April 21, 2005, 11:46:53 AM
Hey, what happened to the Howard and HBCU line of posts????? It is gone..someone got caught up in their feelings.

Hey, I responded to you lawprofesor but it was deleted. Good luck. Even if you misinterpreted my posts. I am impressed with how respectful you are and how you seem to take a step back and analyze people's posts. Good luck.

And faith2005, as someone who has met you. I don't for one second believe you "hate yourself". You are an incredibly intelligent and strong black person. Just from our interactions in person and online, I can tell that you have so much you want to contribute to our community.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: HBCU.EDU on April 21, 2005, 11:48:22 AM
Hey, what happened to the Howard and HBCU line of posts????? It is gone..someone got caught up in their feelings.

Not sure what that was all about. That was a good thread. I had some good post in there with stats on HBCU grads and radical stuff about integration. I think I won that debate. ::)

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 21, 2005, 11:51:24 AM
Hey, what happened to the Howard and HBCU line of posts????? It is gone..someone got caught up in their feelings.

Looks like another mod from the main board deleted the topic..ain’t that some *&^%? I was just about to respond too..wow
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 11:57:50 AM
Hey, what happened to the Howard and HBCU line of posts????? It is gone..someone got caught up in their feelings.

Hey, I responded to you lawprofesor but it was deleted. Good luck. Even if you misinterpreted my posts. I am impressed with how respectful you are and how you seem to take a step back and analyze people's posts. Good luck.

And faith2005, as someone who has met you. I don't for one second believe you "hate yourself". You are an incredibly intelligent and strong black person. Just from our interactions in person and online, I can tell that you have so much you want to contribute to our community.
See, and I had responded and when I hit post, it said this topic has been deleted or something.   It is like waking up and the earth being gone.  ;D  I saw your response, and in a nutshell I said, I wish you had responded like that from the beginning because that response I dont think anyone would have had a problem with...it was thoughtful and precise and very intelligently written and explained what you really where trying to say.  I am here to bring together and not to divide.  I just want luv and respect.  Good luck to you too, I wish you nothing but the best.  Well, all that interpretation comes from law school.  ;)  Hey, if anyone wishes to have any information about becoming a law professor, just hit me up and I will be more than willing to break you off some knowledge on that.  It is also important to think about that while you are still in law school because what you do there does have an impact on your getting a job in certain areas once you get out.  Hey blaqueangel, I with you nothing but greatness in everything that you do and always continue giving back to your people.....that is the only way we are going to improve as a people.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 11:58:34 AM
Hey, what happened to the Howard and HBCU line of posts????? It is gone..someone got caught up in their feelings.

Looks like another mod from the main board deleted the topic..ain’t that some sh*t? I was just about to respond too..wow

Is that what happened???? why would they do that??????????
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 11:59:33 AM
Hey, what happened to the Howard and HBCU line of posts????? It is gone..someone got caught up in their feelings.

Not sure what that was all about. That was a good thread. I had some good post in there with stats on HBCU grads and radical stuff about integration. I think I won that debate. ::)



Well, I will give it to you.......ALL HAIL HBCU!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 21, 2005, 12:15:57 PM
Okay so I read back and got the jist of what was said.  Faith, in some ways I kinda see what you are saying (from your posts and not from that single quote) but you should have known that that quote would have caused a mini-riot in here.  I'll speak for me by saying that I know you don't hate yourself or your people, actually quite the opposite (that's harsh IMO HBCU, but hey you are entitled to your opinion as well).  I just wish we could find ways to keep it civil when we disagree.

(unless it's with RBG, but that's a different story);)

I say alot of crazy stuff on this board but I have never seen anything like this before. Perhaps I'll have to go back and read some of her post but, she didn't even apologize for making such a statement like that. I think she hates herself dude. I mean come on BP. If you say “I want white people to like me” I’ll have a serious problem with that. I can’t see why people don’t understand why that would piss me off. Everybody says to her “I understand where you are coming from..”  man….this is crazy. I’m moving on though. 

Oh don't get me wrong HBCU, I don't subscribe to the sentiments in that quote either, so I can definitely see why it would make people salty. I feel where you are coming from on the quote, I'm not discounting that at all.  I just wish we could come at each other a little better sometimes that's all.  Peace to you bro.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 12:20:25 PM
Okay so I read back and got the jist of what was said.  Faith, in some ways I kinda see what you are saying (from your posts and not from that single quote) but you should have known that that quote would have caused a mini-riot in here.  I'll speak for me by saying that I know you don't hate yourself or your people, actually quite the opposite (that's harsh IMO HBCU, but hey you are entitled to your opinion as well).  I just wish we could find ways to keep it civil when we disagree.

(unless it's with RBG, but that's a different story);)

I say alot of crazy stuff on this board but I have never seen anything like this before. Perhaps I'll have to go back and read some of her post but, she didn't even apologize for making such a statement like that. I think she hates herself dude. I mean come on BP. If you say “I want white people to like me” I’ll have a serious problem with that. I can’t see why people don’t understand why that would piss me off. Everybody says to her “I understand where you are coming from..”  man….this is crazy. I’m moving on though. 

Oh don't get me wrong HBCU, I don't subscribe to the sentiments in that quote either, so I can definitely see why it would make people salty. I feel where you are coming from on the quote, I'm not discounting that at all.  I just wish we could come at each other a little better sometimes that's all.  Peace to you bro.

I agree....how about this, since we are all lawyers or lawyers to be, why dont we act like it and express ourselves in a nonadverserial way???  Peace and love, Peace and love to everyone.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 21, 2005, 03:31:16 PM
Is anyone besides myself starting to feel a tad bit nervous about law school?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 03:34:16 PM
Is anyone besides myself starting to feel a tad bit nervous about law school?

I know I am. 

Ok, what are you feeling nervous about?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 21, 2005, 03:40:24 PM


I Regal Muse am a rankings whore.


Shoot, I don't care what negros or crackas think :P :-* ;D

Girl make up your mind, which one is it??
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 21, 2005, 03:48:37 PM
i know i'm crazy late on this but, i like kanye west said, "Even if you in a Benz, you still a ni&&a in a coupe....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 21, 2005, 03:50:05 PM
Shuddup Sands. I stand by both of my statements.

Law professor: I'm nervous b/c I have some complicated decisions to make before summer is over. I want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes. Also I've been rather stressed lately because of family and other stuff going on in my life.

I FEEL THE PRESSURE!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 21, 2005, 04:00:12 PM
i know i'm crazy late on this but, i like kanye west said, "Even if you in a Benz, you still a ni&&a in a coupe....


Daymn straight.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 04:02:01 PM
Shuddup Sands. I stand by both of my statements.

Law professor: I'm nervous b/c I have some complicated decisions to make before summer is over. I want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes. Also I've been rather stressed lately because of family and other stuff going on in my life.

I FEEL THE PRESSURE!

Well, if you dont mind me asking, what complicated decisions do you have to make before summer is over?  Maybe someone can assist you with your decisions.  As for the family stuff, if it is no tooo personal, maybe someone can give you some advice and help ease your mind.  Share and let your family here help release the pressure.
Title: The Man
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 21, 2005, 04:02:54 PM
thats funny hbcu, i don't have a problem with black folks from any school. i gained from the resources at the ivy league institution i graduated from. and imo i want to be able to speak for my community and have people listen. and trust, i have alot to say. there are black people who graduated from ivy league schools that have affected us as well. Dr. Dubois went to Fisk, then transferred to Harvard. Cornel West went to harvard too. i'm not about making white folks happy, i'm about forcing them to listen in whatever way possible, be it folks standing outside of the state capital building or me saying i studied this with ... at harvard for example. either way it goes, i don't think they will be happy about what i have to say...

thats funny, I don't think you even read my post. I NEVER said that you have a problem with black people. Period. I NEVER said that black people from IVY have not made contributions to the race.

You ARE about making white folks happy. It's in your quote. I'll put it up there for you again.

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

WTF kinda sh*t if this coming out of your mouth? Is this what they teach you at the IVY school you graduated from? There is not ONE person on this board that agrees with this statement of yours. Not even One. This statement is an example of how much you hate yourself and that is ALL i'm talking about. 

Damn, Nupe, no mercey.

FAITH - I think that you are on point with most of your viewpoints except this one.  You cats....[sigh]....where to begin.  I know some of you haven't graduated from college yet, but you soon will, and when you do, your perspective will broaden 110% because you will soon learn that once you get out in the world, its not so much about what school you came from but what you are doing that is impressive. 

Not that we care what Woodrows think, but trust and believe, a Black Judge who graduated from Harvard Law once told me when you and I step into the room they can't tell which one of these ni@@ers are from Harvard.  And yes that was ni@@ers with the "ERS" at the end to convey the full racial sentiment.

So if your worried about making an impression in life in general (to take the focus off the pleasing white folks issue) you will make a much larger impression by letting your actions and accomplishments speak for you than trying to ride off the coat tails of an IVY league school.  Obama was STILL going to make the Senate whether he went to Harvard Law or Howard Law.  He didn't come out of law school talking about "You know I'm from Harvard right?  So let me in the door, whitey"  He came out of law school, picked up a sledgehammer and got to work knockin down walls. He jumped into the Illinois Senate and just kept plugging away it it, putting in work.  He got beat, and he bounced back.  I think we can all agree that where he went to school didn't really matter when he lost the election in 2000 against Bob Rush; nor did it matter when he finally won the Senate seat last year.  It was his personal work ethic, his accomplishments, his attitude that opened the door to the Senate.


So to echo lawprofessor, pick the school that works best for you for whatever reason you feel applies to you and don't worry about what these cats think cause in the end, you're still a you know what, even with a law degree.  Its what you do AFTER the world of theories and make believe (AKA School) that will determine where you end up and what doors will open for you, or rather I should say, what doors you will open yourself.

Title: Re: The Man
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 21, 2005, 04:18:55 PM
thats funny hbcu, i don't have a problem with black folks from any school. i gained from the resources at the ivy league institution i graduated from. and imo i want to be able to speak for my community and have people listen. and trust, i have alot to say. there are black people who graduated from ivy league schools that have affected us as well. Dr. Dubois went to Fisk, then transferred to Harvard. Cornel West went to harvard too. i'm not about making white folks happy, i'm about forcing them to listen in whatever way possible, be it folks standing outside of the state capital building or me saying i studied this with ... at harvard for example. either way it goes, i don't think they will be happy about what i have to say...

thats funny, I don't think you even read my post. I NEVER said that you have a problem with black people. Period. I NEVER said that black people from IVY have not made contributions to the race.

You ARE about making white folks happy. It's in your quote. I'll put it up there for you again.

"i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me."

WTF kinda sh*t if this coming out of your mouth? Is this what they teach you at the IVY school you graduated from? There is not ONE person on this board that agrees with this statement of yours. Not even One. This statement is an example of how much you hate yourself and that is ALL i'm talking about. 

Damn, Nupe, no mercey.

FAITH - I think that you are on point with most of your viewpoints except this one.  You cats....[sigh]....where to begin.  I know some of you haven't graduated from college yet, but you soon will, and when you do, your perspective will broaden 110% because you will soon learn that once you get out in the world, its not so much about what school you came from but what you are doing that is impressive. 

Not that we care what Woodrows think, but trust and believe, a Black Judge who graduated from Harvard Law once told me when you and I step into the room they can't tell which one of these ni@@ers are from Harvard.  And yes that was ni@@ers with the "ERS" at the end to convey the full racial sentiment.

So if your worried about making an impression in life in general (to take the focus off the pleasing white folks issue) you will make a much larger impression by letting your actions and accomplishments speak for you than trying to ride off the coat tails of an IVY league school.  Obama was STILL going to make the Senate whether he went to Harvard Law or Howard Law.  He didn't come out of law school talking about "You know I'm from Harvard right?  So let me in the door, whitey"  He came out of law school, picked up a sledgehammer and got to work knockin down walls. He jumped into the Illinois Senate and just kept plugging away it it, putting in work.  He got beat, and he bounced back.  I think we can all agree that where he went to school didn't really matter when he lost the election in 2000 against Bob Rush; nor did it matter when he finally won the Senate seat last year.  It was his personal work ethic, his accomplishments, his attitude that opened the door to the Senate.


So to echo lawprofessor, pick the school that works best for you for whatever reason you feel applies to you and don't worry about what these cats think cause in the end, you're still a you know what, even with a law degree.  Its what you do AFTER the world of theories and make believe (AKA School) that will determine where you end up and what doors will open for you, or rather I should say, what doors you will open yourself.



*applaud*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 21, 2005, 07:49:39 PM
WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

Here's the thing...

I'm one of 3 black women in my class and the only black woman in my section.  I want advice regarding one of the other black women in my class.  She and I really aren't friends.  We're cool, we're ok, but we aren't close by any means.

Background info...Last semester she suggested we swap TORTS outlines even though we had different professors.  I immediately emailed her my 40 page outline that I had worked on and a week later I asked if she still planned on emailing her outline.  You know what she said, "Your outline was so good, it had everything mine had and more so you don't need to see mine."  Oooook.  I didn't trip.  Then I was studying from an awesome 1-page checklist for CONTRACTS.  She saw it, took it and immediately photocopied it.  I still didn't trip. 

So this semester she and I are in a class together.  We sit next to each other and she either a) Doesn't take notes b/c she's busy playing a card game on her laptop; or b) Takes about 1/2 page of notes that amount to absolutely nothing; or c) Does not show up for class.  In the past, I've sent her notes for a few classes here and there.  Well finals are approaching and you know what she said?  "You take such good notes and they are so detailed b/c you type so fast.  I can't type that fast, it's so hard for me.  Can I just have your notes for the entire semester?"  I'm thinking, you haven't even ATTEMPTED to take notes.

Soooo...SHOULD I GIVE HER THE NOTES AND MY OUTLINE???????  OR SHOULD I JUST GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY OWN GRADE?????
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 21, 2005, 08:00:21 PM
Dayum! I would normally say to give them to her b/c what she does with your notes really doesn't matter b/c it all comes down to your own personal understanding of the material and how you personally perform on the exam -B U T- she has proven herself to be a sheisty ass individual who is not at all concerned about the reciprocal value of sharing notes and such. It is not your responsibility to attend class for her. Hell No! At some point she's gotta learn that you can't go through life depending on other people. Just tell her that you don't believe that it's really fair that you've attended class and she has not. If it had been for just a few classes that she missed b/c of illness or something else it would be all good, but for an ENTIRE semester?? She has a lot of nerve.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 21, 2005, 08:15:56 PM
It's really unfortunate that she's being shady towards you regarding sharing outlines... goodness some of our people act a damn fool for real.... I have to agree with Ladyday though.. you can't give her these notes this time.. she's trying to slide and glide all through law school at your expense... you've done well in sharing with her in the past but it's obvious that she's using you for her own personal benefit...

at first I was going to say that perhaps something was wrong with her that was prohibiting her from coming to class all the time.. but i would think that if she's open enough to ask you for notes all the time.. then she should be open enough to share that with you...

Good luck with finals!
(that goes to all of the 1Ls)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 21, 2005, 08:18:44 PM
Ugh, that story still bothers me, cause she's a sista ya know? And you always want to help fam out, but it sounds like she's only out for self, and wants to get ahead off of the hard work of you. But just based on general GP, I say no!

On another note: went to a lalsa event where they honored a Latino sista who's become the first Latina to hold a judge position in East NY. Very impressed. But I give her mad props b/c when she spoke, she first recognized and made a point on addressing the black community's work in the civil rights movement for tackling barriers that have helped the Latino community as well. Additionally, (what seems to be the theme of all the recent speakers I've heard) she talked about how it is our responsibility as law students (and for you pre-1L's) to also make sure to pull other people of color up as well as we rise in the legal profession.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 08:00:04 AM
WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

Here's the thing...

I'm one of 3 black women in my class and the only black woman in my section.  I want advice regarding one of the other black women in my class.  She and I really aren't friends.  We're cool, we're ok, but we aren't close by any means.

Background info...Last semester she suggested we swap TORTS outlines even though we had different professors.  I immediately emailed her my 40 page outline that I had worked on and a week later I asked if she still planned on emailing her outline.  You know what she said, "Your outline was so good, it had everything mine had and more so you don't need to see mine."  Oooook.  I didn't trip.  Then I was studying from an awesome 1-page checklist for CONTRACTS.  She saw it, took it and immediately photocopied it.  I still didn't trip. 

So this semester she and I are in a class together.  We sit next to each other and she either a) Doesn't take notes b/c she's busy playing a card game on her laptop; or b) Takes about 1/2 page of notes that amount to absolutely nothing; or c) Does not show up for class.  In the past, I've sent her notes for a few classes here and there.  Well finals are approaching and you know what she said?  "You take such good notes and they are so detailed b/c you type so fast.  I can't type that fast, it's so hard for me.  Can I just have your notes for the entire semester?"  I'm thinking, you haven't even ATTEMPTED to take notes.

Soooo...SHOULD I GIVE HER THE NOTES AND MY OUTLINE???????  OR SHOULD I JUST GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY OWN GRADE?????

I understand the need to want to help a fellow sister out, but if you are not going to help yourself, I can't really do anything for you.  I think it hurts us more as a people to have people in the profession who dont need to be in the profession and are later going to be what they judge the rest of us by.  If it was me, I would not give her anything or assist her in any way.  My 2 cents worth.....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 08:05:40 AM
Ugh, that story still bothers me, cause she's a sista ya know? And you always want to help fam out, but it sounds like she's only out for self, and wants to get ahead off of the hard work of you. But just based on general GP, I say no!

On another note: went to a lalsa event where they honored a Latino sista who's become the first Latina to hold a judge position in East NY. Very impressed. But I give her mad props b/c when she spoke, she first recognized and made a point on addressing the black community's work in the civil rights movement for tackling barriers that have helped the Latino community as well. Additionally, (what seems to be the theme of all the recent speakers I've heard) she talked about how it is our responsibility as law students (and for you pre-1L's) to also make sure to pull other people of color up as well as we rise in the legal profession.

That is soo true, Ladyday.  You took the right things from her speech.  It is absolutely our responsibility...(what is the expression..to whom much as been given, much is required).  We have an obligation to assist those coming behind us as pre-1L's and law students, and lawyers and law professors.  What good is it to have the power and ability to help others out there if you are unwilling to do it.  I believe people of color should stick together and work as a team!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on April 22, 2005, 08:48:44 AM
WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

Here's the thing...

I'm one of 3 black women in my class and the only black woman in my section.  I want advice regarding one of the other black women in my class.  She and I really aren't friends.  We're cool, we're ok, but we aren't close by any means.

Background info...Last semester she suggested we swap TORTS outlines even though we had different professors.  I immediately emailed her my 40 page outline that I had worked on and a week later I asked if she still planned on emailing her outline.  You know what she said, "Your outline was so good, it had everything mine had and more so you don't need to see mine."  Oooook.  I didn't trip.  Then I was studying from an awesome 1-page checklist for CONTRACTS.  She saw it, took it and immediately photocopied it.  I still didn't trip. 

So this semester she and I are in a class together.  We sit next to each other and she either a) Doesn't take notes b/c she's busy playing a card game on her laptop; or b) Takes about 1/2 page of notes that amount to absolutely nothing; or c) Does not show up for class.  In the past, I've sent her notes for a few classes here and there.  Well finals are approaching and you know what she said?  "You take such good notes and they are so detailed b/c you type so fast.  I can't type that fast, it's so hard for me.  Can I just have your notes for the entire semester?"  I'm thinking, you haven't even ATTEMPTED to take notes.

Soooo...SHOULD I GIVE HER THE NOTES AND MY OUTLINE???????  OR SHOULD I JUST GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY OWN GRADE?????

How the hell did she get into law school.....This bothers me a lot b/c I had this happen to me in undergrad....This girl I had another class with asked to use my notes b/c she had been out of town for family stuff so I let her b/c I was all about helping a sista out...But then it came time for midterm and the prof gave us an outline of everything we needed to know and she asked if we could split the list and swap notes in the library...This heifer showed up w/nothing like I was going to look up the stuff when I got here....And had the audacity to still ask for my half...I told that female dog  I mean girl that I didn't have mine done yet either and I'd just see her in class......
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 08:52:49 AM
WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

Here's the thing...

I'm one of 3 black women in my class and the only black woman in my section.  I want advice regarding one of the other black women in my class.  She and I really aren't friends.  We're cool, we're ok, but we aren't close by any means.

Background info...Last semester she suggested we swap TORTS outlines even though we had different professors.  I immediately emailed her my 40 page outline that I had worked on and a week later I asked if she still planned on emailing her outline.  You know what she said, "Your outline was so good, it had everything mine had and more so you don't need to see mine."  Oooook.  I didn't trip.  Then I was studying from an awesome 1-page checklist for CONTRACTS.  She saw it, took it and immediately photocopied it.  I still didn't trip. 

So this semester she and I are in a class together.  We sit next to each other and she either a) Doesn't take notes b/c she's busy playing a card game on her laptop; or b) Takes about 1/2 page of notes that amount to absolutely nothing; or c) Does not show up for class.  In the past, I've sent her notes for a few classes here and there.  Well finals are approaching and you know what she said?  "You take such good notes and they are so detailed b/c you type so fast.  I can't type that fast, it's so hard for me.  Can I just have your notes for the entire semester?"  I'm thinking, you haven't even ATTEMPTED to take notes.

Soooo...SHOULD I GIVE HER THE NOTES AND MY OUTLINE???????  OR SHOULD I JUST GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY OWN GRADE?????

How the hell did she get into law school.....This bothers me a lot b/c I had this happen to me in undergrad....This girl I had another class with asked to use my notes b/c she had been out of town for family stuff so I let her b/c I was all about helping a sista out...But then it came time for midterm and the prof gave us an outline of everything we needed to know and she asked if we could split the list and swap notes in the library...This heifer showed up w/nothing like I was going to look up the stuff when I got here....And had the audacity to still ask for my half...I told that female dog  I mean girl that I didn't have mine done yet either and I'd just see her in class......

You seem like you attract quite a bit of this type of person.  The way she got into law school is the same way anyone gets into law school that does not belong there, good grades and good lsat score.  But dont get it twisted, everyone who gets into law school is not necessarily supposed to graduate and everyone who graduates is not necessarily supposed to be a lawyer.  How else do you explain people who get in and flunk out and people who get out and cant pass a bar.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 22, 2005, 08:57:43 AM
The way she got into law school is the same way anyone gets into law school that does not belong there, good grades and good lsat score

LOL, but ironically, you're right.........
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on April 22, 2005, 09:01:04 AM
WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

Here's the thing...

I'm one of 3 black women in my class and the only black woman in my section.  I want advice regarding one of the other black women in my class.  She and I really aren't friends.  We're cool, we're ok, but we aren't close by any means.

Background info...Last semester she suggested we swap TORTS outlines even though we had different professors.  I immediately emailed her my 40 page outline that I had worked on and a week later I asked if she still planned on emailing her outline.  You know what she said, "Your outline was so good, it had everything mine had and more so you don't need to see mine."  Oooook.  I didn't trip.  Then I was studying from an awesome 1-page checklist for CONTRACTS.  She saw it, took it and immediately photocopied it.  I still didn't trip. 

So this semester she and I are in a class together.  We sit next to each other and she either a) Doesn't take notes b/c she's busy playing a card game on her laptop; or b) Takes about 1/2 page of notes that amount to absolutely nothing; or c) Does not show up for class.  In the past, I've sent her notes for a few classes here and there.  Well finals are approaching and you know what she said?  "You take such good notes and they are so detailed b/c you type so fast.  I can't type that fast, it's so hard for me.  Can I just have your notes for the entire semester?"  I'm thinking, you haven't even ATTEMPTED to take notes.

Soooo...SHOULD I GIVE HER THE NOTES AND MY OUTLINE???????  OR SHOULD I JUST GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY OWN GRADE?????

How the hell did she get into law school.....This bothers me a lot b/c I had this happen to me in undergrad....This girl I had another class with asked to use my notes b/c she had been out of town for family stuff so I let her b/c I was all about helping a sista out...But then it came time for midterm and the prof gave us an outline of everything we needed to know and she asked if we could split the list and swap notes in the library...This heifer showed up w/nothing like I was going to look up the stuff when I got here....And had the audacity to still ask for my half...I told that female dog  I mean girl that I didn't have mine done yet either and I'd just see her in class......

You seem like you attract quite a bit of this type of person.  The way she got into law school is the same way anyone gets into law school that does not belong there, good grades and good lsat score.  But dont get it twisted, everyone who gets into law school is not necessarily supposed to graduate and everyone who graduates is not necessarily supposed to be a lawyer.  How else do you explain people who get in and flunk out and people who get out and cant pass a bar.


Right.....I do come across some strange characters.....But man college campuses are full of them!

And I guess you're right about how she got there...I wasn't really looking for an answer to that.....It was kind of a statement  :-\
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 09:36:13 AM
WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

Here's the thing...

I'm one of 3 black women in my class and the only black woman in my section.  I want advice regarding one of the other black women in my class.  She and I really aren't friends.  We're cool, we're ok, but we aren't close by any means.

Background info...Last semester she suggested we swap TORTS outlines even though we had different professors.  I immediately emailed her my 40 page outline that I had worked on and a week later I asked if she still planned on emailing her outline.  You know what she said, "Your outline was so good, it had everything mine had and more so you don't need to see mine."  Oooook.  I didn't trip.  Then I was studying from an awesome 1-page checklist for CONTRACTS.  She saw it, took it and immediately photocopied it.  I still didn't trip. 

So this semester she and I are in a class together.  We sit next to each other and she either a) Doesn't take notes b/c she's busy playing a card game on her laptop; or b) Takes about 1/2 page of notes that amount to absolutely nothing; or c) Does not show up for class.  In the past, I've sent her notes for a few classes here and there.  Well finals are approaching and you know what she said?  "You take such good notes and they are so detailed b/c you type so fast.  I can't type that fast, it's so hard for me.  Can I just have your notes for the entire semester?"  I'm thinking, you haven't even ATTEMPTED to take notes.

Soooo...SHOULD I GIVE HER THE NOTES AND MY OUTLINE???????  OR SHOULD I JUST GIVE A DAMN ABOUT MY OWN GRADE?????

How the hell did she get into law school.....This bothers me a lot b/c I had this happen to me in undergrad....This girl I had another class with asked to use my notes b/c she had been out of town for family stuff so I let her b/c I was all about helping a sista out...But then it came time for midterm and the prof gave us an outline of everything we needed to know and she asked if we could split the list and swap notes in the library...This heifer showed up w/nothing like I was going to look up the stuff when I got here....And had the audacity to still ask for my half...I told that female dog  I mean girl that I didn't have mine done yet either and I'd just see her in class......

You seem like you attract quite a bit of this type of person.  The way she got into law school is the same way anyone gets into law school that does not belong there, good grades and good lsat score.  But dont get it twisted, everyone who gets into law school is not necessarily supposed to graduate and everyone who graduates is not necessarily supposed to be a lawyer.  How else do you explain people who get in and flunk out and people who get out and cant pass a bar.


Right.....I do come across some strange characters.....But man college campuses are full of them!

And I guess you're right about how she got there...I wasn't really looking for an answer to that.....It was kind of a statement  :-\

Yes, college campuses are full of them and so are law schools and so is the real world.  You have to learn how to deal with them now so that you dont fall prey to them for the rest of your life.  I am sorry, I was not trying to get smart, I was trying to set up a much longer answer regarding people getting in who are not supposed to be there.  But I guess that did not come across as much as I had hoped.  I would say regarding you issue, dont make it personal with her, and dont get an attitude.  Just say to her very kindly, you are not giving her your notes.  You did not pay tuition in order to be her secretary.  Just as she made the choice to not take notes, she made the choice to live with the consequences. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 22, 2005, 10:21:30 AM
Damn, Nupe, no mercey.

FAITH - I think that you are on point with most of your viewpoints except this one.  You cats....[sigh]....where to begin.  I know some of you haven't graduated from college yet, but you soon will, and when you do, your perspective will broaden 110% because you will soon learn that once you get out in the world, its not so much about what school you came from but what you are doing that is impressive. 

Not that we care what Woodrows think, but trust and believe, a Black Judge who graduated from Harvard Law once told me when you and I step into the room they can't tell which one of these ni@@ers are from Harvard.  And yes that was ni@@ers with the "ERS" at the end to convey the full racial sentiment.

So if your worried about making an impression in life in general (to take the focus off the pleasing white folks issue) you will make a much larger impression by letting your actions and accomplishments speak for you than trying to ride off the coat tails of an IVY league school.  Obama was STILL going to make the Senate whether he went to Harvard Law or Howard Law.  He didn't come out of law school talking about "You know I'm from Harvard right?  So let me in the door, whitey"  He came out of law school, picked up a sledgehammer and got to work knockin down walls. He jumped into the Illinois Senate and just kept plugging away it it, putting in work.  He got beat, and he bounced back.  I think we can all agree that where he went to school didn't really matter when he lost the election in 2000 against Bob Rush; nor did it matter when he finally won the Senate seat last year.  It was his personal work ethic, his accomplishments, his attitude that opened the door to the Senate.


So to echo lawprofessor, pick the school that works best for you for whatever reason you feel applies to you and don't worry about what these cats think cause in the end, you're still a you know what, even with a law degree.  Its what you do AFTER the world of theories and make believe (AKA School) that will determine where you end up and what doors will open for you, or rather I should say, what doors you will open yourself.



its all good. even though i was online yesterday, i had meetings at work most of the day so im sorry for the late response.i understand and agree with what you're saying sands about at the end of the day it doesn't matter where your degree is from etc. i don't know how what i said became I hate myself or my people. i think about how my actions affect my people every day. In my experiences I have had access to different resources and opportunities than other folks. That doesn't mean those things are better, just different. as people who graduated from college, i think that we all struggle with the issue of representation and impact.  when i ask myself, what kind of role can i play in the struggle for black liberation? my answer is to use the resources i have to do so. to me, that means i might be in some circles, associate with some people who other black folks might not meet and associate with, and its the same for each and everyone of us. i will never be involved with ip law, i think thats what some of you want to do. then the burden of representation is on you to speak for black folks in those rooms, and those meetings. bring attention to the digital divide, force people to donate i.t. products to those who need it. i'm just saying, thats the type of role i think i can play, i didn't begin my education feeling that way, my understanding of the role I can play has come from being out of school and working and paying close attention to the world around me. pretty much my point was, now that i have the degree and it is from a school that white folks think is prestigious, i'm going to use that ish for all its worth to bring about positive change. and i know many others like me who are not just out for "me, myself and i." and i hope everybody else is out to do the same.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 10:30:21 AM
Damn, Nupe, no mercey.

FAITH - I think that you are on point with most of your viewpoints except this one.  You cats....[sigh]....where to begin.  I know some of you haven't graduated from college yet, but you soon will, and when you do, your perspective will broaden 110% because you will soon learn that once you get out in the world, its not so much about what school you came from but what you are doing that is impressive. 

Not that we care what Woodrows think, but trust and believe, a Black Judge who graduated from Harvard Law once told me when you and I step into the room they can't tell which one of these ni@@ers are from Harvard.  And yes that was ni@@ers with the "ERS" at the end to convey the full racial sentiment.

So if your worried about making an impression in life in general (to take the focus off the pleasing white folks issue) you will make a much larger impression by letting your actions and accomplishments speak for you than trying to ride off the coat tails of an IVY league school.  Obama was STILL going to make the Senate whether he went to Harvard Law or Howard Law.  He didn't come out of law school talking about "You know I'm from Harvard right?  So let me in the door, whitey"  He came out of law school, picked up a sledgehammer and got to work knockin down walls. He jumped into the Illinois Senate and just kept plugging away it it, putting in work.  He got beat, and he bounced back.  I think we can all agree that where he went to school didn't really matter when he lost the election in 2000 against Bob Rush; nor did it matter when he finally won the Senate seat last year.  It was his personal work ethic, his accomplishments, his attitude that opened the door to the Senate.


So to echo lawprofessor, pick the school that works best for you for whatever reason you feel applies to you and don't worry about what these cats think cause in the end, you're still a you know what, even with a law degree.  Its what you do AFTER the world of theories and make believe (AKA School) that will determine where you end up and what doors will open for you, or rather I should say, what doors you will open yourself.



its all good. even though i was online yesterday, i had meetings at work most of the day so im sorry for the late response.i understand and agree with what you're saying sands about at the end of the day it doesn't matter where your degree is from etc. i don't know how what i said became I hate myself or my people. i think about how my actions affect my people every day. In my experiences I have had access to different resources and opportunities than other folks. That doesn't mean those things are better, just different. as people who graduated from college, i think that we all struggle with the issue of representation and impact.  when i ask myself, what kind of role can i play in the struggle for black liberation? my answer is to use the resources i have to do so. to me, that means i might be in some circles, associate with some people who other black folks might not meet and associate with, and its the same for each and everyone of us. i will never be involved with ip law, i think thats what some of you want to do. then the burden of representation is on you to speak for black folks in those rooms, and those meetings. bring attention to the digital divide, force people to donate i.t. products to those who need it. i'm just saying, thats the type of role i think i can play, i didn't begin my education feeling that way, my understanding of the role I can play has come from being out of school and working and paying close attention to the world around me. pretty much my point was, now that i have the degree and it is from a school that white folks think is prestigious, i'm going to use that ish for all its worth to bring about positive change. and i know many others like me who are not just out for "me, myself and i." and i hope everybody else is out to do the same.

I applaud  you!!!!! Go forth and do good!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 10:37:24 AM
Damn, Nupe, no mercey.

FAITH - I think that you are on point with most of your viewpoints except this one.  You cats....[sigh]....where to begin.  I know some of you haven't graduated from college yet, but you soon will, and when you do, your perspective will broaden 110% because you will soon learn that once you get out in the world, its not so much about what school you came from but what you are doing that is impressive. 

Not that we care what Woodrows think, but trust and believe, a Black Judge who graduated from Harvard Law once told me when you and I step into the room they can't tell which one of these ni@@ers are from Harvard.  And yes that was ni@@ers with the "ERS" at the end to convey the full racial sentiment.

So if your worried about making an impression in life in general (to take the focus off the pleasing white folks issue) you will make a much larger impression by letting your actions and accomplishments speak for you than trying to ride off the coat tails of an IVY league school.  Obama was STILL going to make the Senate whether he went to Harvard Law or Howard Law.  He didn't come out of law school talking about "You know I'm from Harvard right?  So let me in the door, whitey"  He came out of law school, picked up a sledgehammer and got to work knockin down walls. He jumped into the Illinois Senate and just kept plugging away it it, putting in work.  He got beat, and he bounced back.  I think we can all agree that where he went to school didn't really matter when he lost the election in 2000 against Bob Rush; nor did it matter when he finally won the Senate seat last year.  It was his personal work ethic, his accomplishments, his attitude that opened the door to the Senate.


So to echo lawprofessor, pick the school that works best for you for whatever reason you feel applies to you and don't worry about what these cats think cause in the end, you're still a you know what, even with a law degree.  Its what you do AFTER the world of theories and make believe (AKA School) that will determine where you end up and what doors will open for you, or rather I should say, what doors you will open yourself.



its all good. even though i was online yesterday, i had meetings at work most of the day so im sorry for the late response.i understand and agree with what you're saying sands about at the end of the day it doesn't matter where your degree is from etc. i don't know how what i said became I hate myself or my people. i think about how my actions affect my people every day. In my experiences I have had access to different resources and opportunities than other folks. That doesn't mean those things are better, just different. as people who graduated from college, i think that we all struggle with the issue of representation and impact.  when i ask myself, what kind of role can i play in the struggle for black liberation? my answer is to use the resources i have to do so. to me, that means i might be in some circles, associate with some people who other black folks might not meet and associate with, and its the same for each and everyone of us. i will never be involved with ip law, i think thats what some of you want to do. then the burden of representation is on you to speak for black folks in those rooms, and those meetings. bring attention to the digital divide, force people to donate i.t. products to those who need it. i'm just saying, thats the type of role i think i can play, i didn't begin my education feeling that way, my understanding of the role I can play has come from being out of school and working and paying close attention to the world around me. pretty much my point was, now that i have the degree and it is from a school that white folks think is prestigious, i'm going to use that ish for all its worth to bring about positive change. and i know many others like me who are not just out for "me, myself and i." and i hope everybody else is out to do the same.

I applaud  you!!!!! Go forth and do good!!!


professor dude,
if that is really what you are...don't you have a class to teach, papers to grade, articles to work on, memos to write...something?!  dang you are blowing up my unread replies folder with your mess. >:(  slow your roll playa, we feel you. 

dang newbies getting on my nerves...

 ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 10:45:23 AM
Damn, Nupe, no mercey.

FAITH - I think that you are on point with most of your viewpoints except this one.  You cats....[sigh]....where to begin.  I know some of you haven't graduated from college yet, but you soon will, and when you do, your perspective will broaden 110% because you will soon learn that once you get out in the world, its not so much about what school you came from but what you are doing that is impressive. 

Not that we care what Woodrows think, but trust and believe, a Black Judge who graduated from Harvard Law once told me when you and I step into the room they can't tell which one of these ni@@ers are from Harvard.  And yes that was ni@@ers with the "ERS" at the end to convey the full racial sentiment.

So if your worried about making an impression in life in general (to take the focus off the pleasing white folks issue) you will make a much larger impression by letting your actions and accomplishments speak for you than trying to ride off the coat tails of an IVY league school.  Obama was STILL going to make the Senate whether he went to Harvard Law or Howard Law.  He didn't come out of law school talking about "You know I'm from Harvard right?  So let me in the door, whitey"  He came out of law school, picked up a sledgehammer and got to work knockin down walls. He jumped into the Illinois Senate and just kept plugging away it it, putting in work.  He got beat, and he bounced back.  I think we can all agree that where he went to school didn't really matter when he lost the election in 2000 against Bob Rush; nor did it matter when he finally won the Senate seat last year.  It was his personal work ethic, his accomplishments, his attitude that opened the door to the Senate.


So to echo lawprofessor, pick the school that works best for you for whatever reason you feel applies to you and don't worry about what these cats think cause in the end, you're still a you know what, even with a law degree.  Its what you do AFTER the world of theories and make believe (AKA School) that will determine where you end up and what doors will open for you, or rather I should say, what doors you will open yourself.



its all good. even though i was online yesterday, i had meetings at work most of the day so im sorry for the late response.i understand and agree with what you're saying sands about at the end of the day it doesn't matter where your degree is from etc. i don't know how what i said became I hate myself or my people. i think about how my actions affect my people every day. In my experiences I have had access to different resources and opportunities than other folks. That doesn't mean those things are better, just different. as people who graduated from college, i think that we all struggle with the issue of representation and impact.  when i ask myself, what kind of role can i play in the struggle for black liberation? my answer is to use the resources i have to do so. to me, that means i might be in some circles, associate with some people who other black folks might not meet and associate with, and its the same for each and everyone of us. i will never be involved with ip law, i think thats what some of you want to do. then the burden of representation is on you to speak for black folks in those rooms, and those meetings. bring attention to the digital divide, force people to donate i.t. products to those who need it. i'm just saying, thats the type of role i think i can play, i didn't begin my education feeling that way, my understanding of the role I can play has come from being out of school and working and paying close attention to the world around me. pretty much my point was, now that i have the degree and it is from a school that white folks think is prestigious, i'm going to use that ish for all its worth to bring about positive change. and i know many others like me who are not just out for "me, myself and i." and i hope everybody else is out to do the same.

I applaud  you!!!!! Go forth and do good!!!


professor dude,
if that is really what you are...don't you have a class to teach, papers to grade, articles to work on, memos to write...something?!  dang you are blowing up my unread replies folder with your mess. >:(  slow your roll playa, we feel you. 

dang newbies getting on my nerves...

 ;)

Yes, that is really what I am.  I dont have a class to teach, however I do have papers to grade and am in the middle of editing an article that is going to be published at Berkeley  ;D  My mess.....I am sorry, I didnt know that newbies had to get the permission of the great etruman to post.  I am sure you are going to hate this response because I didnt get your permission before responding to yours.  And speaking of school, since I have alredy got what you are seeking, dont you have a case to read, a brief to write, a class to attend, a professor to visit, a 1L to push up on??????

Dag, old heads getting on my nerves.  :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 10:52:12 AM
Quote

Yes, that is really what I am. I dont have a class to teach, however I do have papers to grade and am in the middle of editing an article that is going to be published at Berkeley ;D My mess.....I am sorry, I didnt know that newbies had to get the permission of the great etruman to post. I am sure you are going to hate this response because I didnt get your permission before responding to yours. And speaking of school, since I have alredy got what you are seeking, dont you have a case to read, a brief to write, a class to attend, a professor to visit, a 1L to push up on??????

Dag, old heads getting on my nerves. :P
Quote
:D not bad for a newbie.  you at least have a sense of humor... even if it is whack.
As for getting my permission, you are forgiven this time, but don't make it a habit as I WILL call out your old funky professor behind.  As I've said, I don't discriminate.  Your tacky tweed suit and dreds do not make you immune. 
Not a 1L so thankfully I am free of the concerns that you have mentioned. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 11:01:57 AM
Quote

Yes, that is really what I am. I dont have a class to teach, however I do have papers to grade and am in the middle of editing an article that is going to be published at Berkeley ;D My mess.....I am sorry, I didnt know that newbies had to get the permission of the great etruman to post. I am sure you are going to hate this response because I didnt get your permission before responding to yours. And speaking of school, since I have alredy got what you are seeking, dont you have a case to read, a brief to write, a class to attend, a professor to visit, a 1L to push up on??????

Dag, old heads getting on my nerves. :P
Quote
:D not bad for a newbie.  you at least have a sense of humor... even if it is whack.
As for getting my permission, you are forgiven this time, but don't make it a habit as I WILL call out your old funky professor behind.  As I've said, I don't discriminate.  Your tacky tweed suit and dreds do not make you immune. 
Not a 1L so thankfully I am free of the concerns that you have mentioned. 


I dont know whether to reply or not.  I hope I will be forgiven again.  I have a great sense of humor and it is not whack.  Crack is whack.  <--- whitney houston.  I do not wear a tween suit and you forgot my pipe that I smoke as I am reading some old dusty boring article.  You dont read cases or attend class anymore???  Oh, well if you keep that up, we wont have to worry about you on the other side with a degree.  :'(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 11:09:20 AM
Quote

I dont know whether to reply or not.  I hope I will be forgiven again.  I have a great sense of humor and it is not whack.  Crack is whack.  <--- whitney houston.  I do not wear a tween suit and you forgot my pipe that I smoke as I am reading some old dusty boring article.  You dont read cases or attend class anymore???  Oh, well if you keep that up, we wont have to worry about you on the other side with a degree.  :'(
Quote

What can I say, I'm feeling especially tolerant right now, you are forgiven.  I start law school in the fall--perhaps then I'll pick up a case book or attend a couple classes if I'm feeling especially motivated.  On second thought maybe I'll "edit" an article while I'm shooting the breeze with pre-laws.
Crack may be whack but you are too broke to afford coke so I wonder what kind of hasheesh your broke ass is taking?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 11:23:47 AM
Quote

I dont know whether to reply or not.  I hope I will be forgiven again.  I have a great sense of humor and it is not whack.  Crack is whack.  <--- whitney houston.  I do not wear a tween suit and you forgot my pipe that I smoke as I am reading some old dusty boring article.  You dont read cases or attend class anymore???  Oh, well if you keep that up, we wont have to worry about you on the other side with a degree.  :'(
Quote

What can I say, I'm feeling especially tolerant right now, you are forgiven.  I start law school in the fall--perhaps then I'll pick up a case book or attend a couple classes if I'm feeling especially motivated.  On second thought maybe I'll "edit" an article while I'm shooting the breeze with pre-laws.
Crack may be whack but you are too broke to afford coke so I wonder what kind of hasheesh your broke ass is taking?

Gee, I feel so lucky to be forgiven.  Oh, damn, you aint even in school yet.  Talk to me when you step inside of a law school and crack open a casebook.  Oh trust me, you are going to be motivated.  Where are you going to attend law school?  Since I have already graduated and I have twice as many law degrees as you have, I can "edit" an article that I wrote while shooting the breeze with pre-laws.  I take nothing, but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 22, 2005, 12:53:43 PM
Ya'll want us to leave the room while ya'll get to know each other?  Cause you know we can step out for a quick 5 minutes, no problem.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 22, 2005, 12:56:17 PM
Folks are brutal...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 22, 2005, 01:05:39 PM
To all the 1L's, I'll sum up Con Law real quick in one sentence:

The goverment an take yo sh!t as long as they do it in a narowly tailored way and have a good reason.

The end.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 22, 2005, 01:20:49 PM
To all the 1L's, I'll sum up Con Law real quick in one sentence:

The goverment an take yo sh!t as long as they do it in a narowly tailored way and have a good reason.

The end.



This is the best Outline I've ever seen.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 22, 2005, 01:21:45 PM
Take that with you.  Don't ever say I never gave you nothing!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 02:49:16 PM
Quote

I dont know whether to reply or not.  I hope I will be forgiven again.  I have a great sense of humor and it is not whack.  Crack is whack.  <--- whitney houston.  I do not wear a tween suit and you forgot my pipe that I smoke as I am reading some old dusty boring article.  You dont read cases or attend class anymore???  Oh, well if you keep that up, we wont have to worry about you on the other side with a degree.  :'(
Quote


What can I say, I'm feeling especially tolerant right now, you are forgiven.  I start law school in the fall--perhaps then I'll pick up a case book or attend a couple classes if I'm feeling especially motivated.  On second thought maybe I'll "edit" an article while I'm shooting the breeze with pre-laws.
Crack may be whack but you are too broke to afford coke so I wonder what kind of hasheesh your broke ass is taking?

Gee, I feel so lucky to be forgiven.  Oh, damn, you aint even in school yet.  Talk to me when you step inside of a law school and crack open a casebook.  Oh trust me, you are going to be motivated.  Where are you going to attend law school?  Since I have already graduated and I have twice as many law degrees as you have, I can "edit" an article that I wrote while shooting the breeze with pre-laws.  I take nothing, but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something.
that was a disappointing finish :-\.  I expected you to be funnier, but I still give you props, not bad for a first run.  rbg has you beat though.

"but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something."  yeah...your tenure track position  :D  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 22, 2005, 03:02:15 PM
Damn women at Yale are fiesty!

I like this side of you Etuman.  :-*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 03:03:33 PM
Quote

I dont know whether to reply or not.  I hope I will be forgiven again.  I have a great sense of humor and it is not whack.  Crack is whack.  <--- whitney houston.  I do not wear a tween suit and you forgot my pipe that I smoke as I am reading some old dusty boring article.  You dont read cases or attend class anymore???  Oh, well if you keep that up, we wont have to worry about you on the other side with a degree.  :'(
Quote


What can I say, I'm feeling especially tolerant right now, you are forgiven.  I start law school in the fall--perhaps then I'll pick up a case book or attend a couple classes if I'm feeling especially motivated.  On second thought maybe I'll "edit" an article while I'm shooting the breeze with pre-laws.
Crack may be whack but you are too broke to afford coke so I wonder what kind of hasheesh your broke ass is taking?

Gee, I feel so lucky to be forgiven.  Oh, damn, you aint even in school yet.  Talk to me when you step inside of a law school and crack open a casebook.  Oh trust me, you are going to be motivated.  Where are you going to attend law school?  Since I have already graduated and I have twice as many law degrees as you have, I can "edit" an article that I wrote while shooting the breeze with pre-laws.  I take nothing, but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something.
that was a disappointing finish :-\.  I expected you to be funnier, but I still give you props, not bad for a first run.  rbg has you beat though.

"but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something."  yeah...your tenure track position  :D  ;)


Please, would it have been better if I had thrown #%@! at the end???????????  Negro, you will never take my tenure track position.  I have already written more scholarly things then you will write over the course of your entire career.  Hush your mouth before I slice some bacon off your back.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 22, 2005, 03:09:14 PM
Sooooooo, Law Prof, u would be willing to read and comment on 1L's appellate briefs before they turn them it?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 03:31:45 PM
Quote

I dont know whether to reply or not.  I hope I will be forgiven again.  I have a great sense of humor and it is not whack.  Crack is whack.  <--- whitney houston.  I do not wear a tween suit and you forgot my pipe that I smoke as I am reading some old dusty boring article.  You dont read cases or attend class anymore???  Oh, well if you keep that up, we wont have to worry about you on the other side with a degree.  :'(
Quote


What can I say, I'm feeling especially tolerant right now, you are forgiven.  I start law school in the fall--perhaps then I'll pick up a case book or attend a couple classes if I'm feeling especially motivated.  On second thought maybe I'll "edit" an article while I'm shooting the breeze with pre-laws.
Crack may be whack but you are too broke to afford coke so I wonder what kind of hasheesh your broke ass is taking?

Gee, I feel so lucky to be forgiven.  Oh, damn, you aint even in school yet.  Talk to me when you step inside of a law school and crack open a casebook.  Oh trust me, you are going to be motivated.  Where are you going to attend law school?  Since I have already graduated and I have twice as many law degrees as you have, I can "edit" an article that I wrote while shooting the breeze with pre-laws.  I take nothing, but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something.
that was a disappointing finish :-\.  I expected you to be funnier, but I still give you props, not bad for a first run.  rbg has you beat though.

"but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something."  yeah...your tenure track position  :D  ;)


Please, would it have been better if I had thrown #%@! at the end???????????  Negro, you will never take my tenure track position.  I have already written more scholarly things then you will write over the course of your entire career.  Hush your mouth before I slice some bacon off your back.

hmm you at least made an effort that time.  it kind of makes it sadder, but I'm willing to give you a "most improved student" certificate.  prof, there is no special olympics for playing the dozens so if you can't keep up take your participation award and sit your ass down. 

"have already written more scholarly things then you will write over the course of your entire career. "  dude, your odes to green eggs and ham don't count.  the least you could do was make that bacon thing rhyme--playa your daggers so whack it's like bacon off your back.  No inspiration.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 03:40:02 PM
Quote

I dont know whether to reply or not.  I hope I will be forgiven again.  I have a great sense of humor and it is not whack.  Crack is whack.  <--- whitney houston.  I do not wear a tween suit and you forgot my pipe that I smoke as I am reading some old dusty boring article.  You dont read cases or attend class anymore???  Oh, well if you keep that up, we wont have to worry about you on the other side with a degree.  :'(
Quote


What can I say, I'm feeling especially tolerant right now, you are forgiven.  I start law school in the fall--perhaps then I'll pick up a case book or attend a couple classes if I'm feeling especially motivated.  On second thought maybe I'll "edit" an article while I'm shooting the breeze with pre-laws.
Crack may be whack but you are too broke to afford coke so I wonder what kind of hasheesh your broke ass is taking?

Gee, I feel so lucky to be forgiven.  Oh, damn, you aint even in school yet.  Talk to me when you step inside of a law school and crack open a casebook.  Oh trust me, you are going to be motivated.  Where are you going to attend law school?  Since I have already graduated and I have twice as many law degrees as you have, I can "edit" an article that I wrote while shooting the breeze with pre-laws.  I take nothing, but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something.
that was a disappointing finish :-\.  I expected you to be funnier, but I still give you props, not bad for a first run.  rbg has you beat though.

"but by the time you get to the end of your first semester, you will be taking something."  yeah...your tenure track position  :D  ;)


Please, would it have been better if I had thrown #%@! at the end???????????  Negro, you will never take my tenure track position.  I have already written more scholarly things then you will write over the course of your entire career.  Hush your mouth before I slice some bacon off your back.

hmm you at least made an effort that time.  it kind of makes it sadder, but I'm willing to give you a "most improved student" certificate.  prof, there is no special olympics for playing the dozens so if you can't keep up take your participation award and sit your ass down. 

"have already written more scholarly things then you will write over the course of your entire career. "  dude, your odes to green eggs and ham don't count.  the least you could do was make that bacon thing rhyme--playa your daggers so whack it's like bacon off your back.  No inspiration.

I make no effort, because you require no effort.  I am willing to give you "the most pathetic student."  I award you the McDonald's award for biggest loser to not get a law degree.  While you are rhyming, you should be doing some studying.  Wanna compare resumes and see who comes out better?  Oh, that is right, yours is still only one page, if you use a BIG FONT!  When you make it worth my time, I will give effort.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 22, 2005, 03:47:54 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 03:49:10 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

Insecure brothers who cant stand on their own.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 22, 2005, 03:54:06 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

Insecure brothers who cant stand on their own.

Ummmm that's an incorrect statement.

But u still haven't answered my question!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 22, 2005, 03:56:15 PM

Please, would it have been better if I had thrown #%@! at the end???????????  Negro, you will never take my tenure track position.  I have already written more scholarly things then you will write over the course of your entire career.  Hush your mouth before I slice some bacon off your back.

Hey, you're not very good at this. So, take your one size fits nobody tight ass t-shirt, Malcolm and Eddie lookin ass out of this thread!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 03:56:47 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

Insecure brothers who cant stand on their own.

Ummmm that's an incorrect statement.

But u still haven't answered my question!

I have answered your question.  You may not like or agree with my answer, but I answered it.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 03:57:04 PM
Quote

I make no effort, because you require no effort.  I am willing to give you "the most pathetic student."  I award you the McDonald's award for biggest loser to not get a law degree.  While you are rhyming, you should be doing some studying.  Wanna compare resumes and see who comes out better?  Oh, that is right, yours is still only one page, if you use a BIG FONT!  When you make it worth my time, I will give effort.
Quote

ROFL.  Would you like to compare resumes?  man that is one lameass comeback.  You get the McDonald's I'd hit that award-
(http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2005/04/12/)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/uclickcomics/20050412/cx_bo_uc/bo20050412&e=4
 :D
send your resume on over  ::)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lexington on April 22, 2005, 03:59:36 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

Insecure brothers who cant stand on their own.

Ummmm that's an incorrect statement.

But u still haven't answered my question!

The answer's yes (he does proof papers)!  I already asked... LOL
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 04:00:26 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

rofl.  law prof I hope you don't think there is real animosity.  since Vick isn't here we thought we should give you a little hazing.  It's all love.  :-*  
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 04:01:40 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

Insecure brothers who cant stand on their own.

Ummmm that's an incorrect statement.

But u still haven't answered my question!

Damn, I skipped right over that question...it was so short.  I would be willing to read and comment on 1Ls appellate briefs before they turn them in.  When do they have to turn them in???
And sorry for the previous response.....I am all sensitive today, aint I.  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 04:04:18 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

rofl.  law prof I hope you don't think there is real animosity.  since Vick isn't here we thought we should give you a little hazing.  It's all love.  :-*  

NO, I dont think this is real animosity.  I can handle a little hazing.  Its all good.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 04:05:42 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

Insecure brothers who cant stand on their own.

Ummmm that's an incorrect statement.

But u still haven't answered my question!

The answer's yes (he does proof papers)!  I already asked... LOL

Hey now, dont be puttin my stuff out there like that....you volunteering me for hazardous duty???
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 22, 2005, 04:08:09 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

Insecure brothers who cant stand on their own.

Ummmm that's an incorrect statement.

But u still haven't answered my question!

Damn, I skipped right over that question...it was so short.  I would be willing to read and comment on 1Ls appellate briefs before they turn them in.  When do they have to turn them in???
And sorry for the previous response.....I am all sensitive today, aint I.  ;D


It's all good  :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 22, 2005, 04:08:56 PM
No one likes when I haze them.  :'(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 04:09:37 PM
No one likes when I haze them.  :'(

Baby you can haze me anytime!!  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 04:11:15 PM
Quote

I make no effort, because you require no effort.  I am willing to give you "the most pathetic student."  I award you the McDonald's award for biggest loser to not get a law degree.  While you are rhyming, you should be doing some studying.  Wanna compare resumes and see who comes out better?  Oh, that is right, yours is still only one page, if you use a BIG FONT!  When you make it worth my time, I will give effort.
Quote

ROFL.  Would you like to compare resumes?  man that is one lameass comeback.  You get the McDonald's I'd hit that award-
(http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/2005/04/12/)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/uclickcomics/20050412/cx_bo_uc/bo20050412&e=4
 :D
send your resume on over  ::)

LOL
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 22, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

rofl.  law prof I hope you don't think there is real animosity.  since Vick isn't here we thought we should give you a little hazing.  It's all love.  :-* 

NO, I dont think this is real animosity.  I can handle a little hazing.  Its all good.


Orright since you can handle a little hazing, a couple things:

1) Do you by any chance have a rainbow colored flag hanging in your room? You know what I mean...
2) Watch your ass coming up in here talking down to people just because you are a so-called law professor.  You gets no respect from me just because you have your JD (not on here at least) you got to earn that sh*t by contributing to the thread either with critical thought or by reaching back and helping out.  So fall back on that "I'm the sh*t cause I'm a law professor" tip until you earn some stripes up in this piece.
3) Oh, and could you slow your posts-per-minute rate down a little. Daymn!

Okay, carry on.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 22, 2005, 04:37:36 PM
what is going on today??
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 22, 2005, 04:42:28 PM
what is going on today??

Oh it's really nothing personal...he said he can handle it;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 22, 2005, 04:51:08 PM
Hi BP  :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 22, 2005, 04:54:13 PM
Hi BP  :P

I was just saying to myself that I can't believe Regal didn't hit me up all day.  What's good? Stay out of trouble girl! ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 04:56:59 PM
Where did all these animosity come from?  ;)

rofl.  law prof I hope you don't think there is real animosity.  since Vick isn't here we thought we should give you a little hazing.  It's all love.  :-* 

NO, I dont think this is real animosity.  I can handle a little hazing.  Its all good.


Orright since you can handle a little hazing, a couple things:

1) Do you by any chance have a rainbow colored flag hanging in your room? You know what I mean...
2) Watch your ass coming up in here talking down to people just because you are a so-called law professor.  You gets no respect from me just because you have your JD (not on here at least) you got to earn that sh*t by contributing to the thread either with critical thought or by reaching back and helping out.  So fall back on that "I'm the sh*t cause I'm a law professor" tip until you earn some stripes up in this piece.
3) Oh, and could you slow your posts-per-minute rate down a little. Daymn!

Okay, carry on.

First, No, I have no rainbow colored flag in my room.  <---- picked up on the homosexual comment.  So, maybe we should be asking you that.
second, I am not a so called law professor, I am a law professor....Whether you respect me or not, makes me no difference.  I  have what I have and I have done what I have done and whether you respect that or not...cat, I dont live or die trying to earn YOUR respect.  I have earned the respect of much greater folk than you.  Why you not giving me respect for having my JD, why not throw my LLM up in there as well.  You might as well disrespect that while you are at it.  When I contribute, whether it be on here or in my personal life by reaching back is my business.  I do what I do because I want to do it, not because you will respect it.  If you dont ever respect me....I dont care.  You will find that out, I dont much care about what people think about me. I have earned my stripes out in the REAL world, not up on some mickey mouse board.  If I want to throw my job out there, I will, if I want to throw all of my degrees out there, I will, if I want to throw all of my publications out there, I will.  I hope I have said it enough times, enough ways that you get it.  You can haze my ass after you kiss it.  
And I will post as much as I feel necessary!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 22, 2005, 04:57:22 PM
I'm working on an assignment actually. I'm popular you know. Everyone loves me.  8)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 22, 2005, 05:00:04 PM
NO, I dont think this is real animosity.  I can handle a little hazing.  Its all good.

Orright, as long as you can handle it.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 05:02:31 PM
NO, I dont think this is real animosity.  I can handle a little hazing.  Its all good.

Orright, as long as you can handle it.



Yeah, I can.  I dont think much about you 1Ls and pre-1Ls.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 22, 2005, 05:04:40 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 22, 2005, 05:05:59 PM
NO, I dont think this is real animosity.  I can handle a little hazing.  Its all good.

Orright, as long as you can handle it.



Yeah, I can.  I dont think much about you 1Ls and pre-1Ls.

whoa whoa whoa! no 1L's have tried to diss you! and if you don't think about us, then why are you here  :'(? actually I am curious, how did u find this site, and what made u start posting? (sincerely)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 05:06:16 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

These little snot nose punks aint gonna listen to nobody....
I will leave it at that...I am going to go to some law professor stuff.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 05:06:25 PM
NO, I dont think this is real animosity.  I can handle a little hazing.  Its all good.

Orright, as long as you can handle it.



Yeah, I can.  I dont think much about you 1Ls and pre-1Ls.
yo, you like the suburban kids slumming it in da hood then returning to their lily white "neighborhoods" and then cryin' bout being hard...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 05:07:16 PM
NO, I dont think this is real animosity.  I can handle a little hazing.  Its all good.

Orright, as long as you can handle it.



Yeah, I can.  I dont think much about you 1Ls and pre-1Ls.
yo, you like the suburban kids slumming it in da hood then returning to their lily white "neighborhoods" and then cryin' bout being hard...

Oh, that hurt.....i dont know if I can go on.   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
You are so mean...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 05:08:33 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

nah reign,
I'm not trying to ride that courduroy train...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 05:11:32 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

nah reign,
I'm not trying to ride that courduroy train...

Oh you dont respect me and dont want to listen to me...I dont know how I am going to go on.   :'(
That just blows all that I have worked for in my life.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 05:13:40 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

nah reign,
I'm not trying to ride that courduroy train...

Oh you dont respect me and dont want to listen to me...I dont know how I am going to go on.   :'(
That just blows all that I have worked for in my life.
hey there is always the circus.  I hear they could use a good clown.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 22, 2005, 05:14:50 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

These little snot nose punks aint gonna listen to nobody....
I will leave it at that...I am going to go to some law professor stuff.

Orright go do that, oh and put on one of your 50 "Look everyone I'm a Law professor" t-shirts while you're at it.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 05:16:58 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

nah reign,
I'm not trying to ride that courduroy train...

Oh you dont respect me and dont want to listen to me...I dont know how I am going to go on.   :'(
That just blows all that I have worked for in my life.
hey there is always the circus.  I hear they could use a good clown.

Nah, I heard your mama already got that position and your daddy got the bearded lady position.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 05:18:45 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

These little snot nose punks aint gonna listen to nobody....
I will leave it at that...I am going to go to some law professor stuff.

Orright go do that, oh and put on one of your 50 "Look everyone I'm a Law professor" t-shirts while you're at it.
How did you know I had 50 of those??? Oh, damn, tell your mama to just bring the one I left last night when I was with her.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 05:21:03 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

nah reign,
I'm not trying to ride that courduroy train...

Oh you dont respect me and dont want to listen to me...I dont know how I am going to go on.   :'(
That just blows all that I have worked for in my life.
hey there is always the circus.  I hear they could use a good clown.

Nah, I heard your mama already got that position and your daddy got the bearded lady position.


seems like you suffer from projection.  I know it must of hurt that dumbo got more peanuts growing up; you should really seek help for that.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 22, 2005, 05:34:59 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

These little snot nose punks aint gonna listen to nobody....
I will leave it at that...I am going to go to some law professor stuff.

Orright go do that, oh and put on one of your 50 "Look everyone I'm a Law professor" t-shirts while you're at it.
How did you know I had 50 of those??? Oh, damn, tell your mama to just bring the one I left last night when I was with her.

Lawprofessor<--- <Put on ignore until his life isn't defined by his JD and LLM>
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 05:37:37 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

nah reign,
I'm not trying to ride that courduroy train...

Oh you dont respect me and dont want to listen to me...I dont know how I am going to go on.   :'(
That just blows all that I have worked for in my life.
hey there is always the circus.  I hear they could use a good clown.

Nah, I heard your mama already got that position and your daddy got the bearded lady position.


seems like you suffer from projection.  I know it must of hurt that dumbo got more peanuts growing up; you should really seek help for that.

Actually, when I grow up I want to be just like you....a loser do nothing, know nothing.  Then I can sit on here and pretend to be somebody.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 05:38:46 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

These little snot nose punks aint gonna listen to nobody....
I will leave it at that...I am going to go to some law professor stuff.

Orright go do that, oh and put on one of your 50 "Look everyone I'm a Law professor" t-shirts while you're at it.
How did you know I had 50 of those??? Oh, damn, tell your mama to just bring the one I left last night when I was with her.

Lawprofessor<--- <Put on ignore until his life isn't defined by his JD and LLM>

Please ignore me...that would be a dream come true. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 22, 2005, 05:40:23 PM
You guys made my day at work go by so fast!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: One Step Ahead on April 22, 2005, 05:49:04 PM
i’m jealous.. I used to be the JD on the site.. *sniff* now there’s someone here with an LLM that’s surpassed me…  :'(


Just playin..lol I’m glad that you’re here..your advice will be appreciated and people are going to learn a lot from you.. you’ve been where they’re trying to go..

nah reign,
I'm not trying to ride that courduroy train...

Oh you dont respect me and dont want to listen to me...I dont know how I am going to go on.   :'(
That just blows all that I have worked for in my life.
hey there is always the circus.  I hear they could use a good clown.

Nah, I heard your mama already got that position and your daddy got the bearded lady position.


seems like you suffer from projection.  I know it must of hurt that dumbo got more peanuts growing up; you should really seek help for that.

Actually, when I grow up I want to be just like you....a loser do nothing, know nothing.  Then I can sit on here and pretend to be somebody.
::)  
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 22, 2005, 11:47:15 PM
You guys made my day at work go by so fast!

Glad I could help. ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 22, 2005, 11:50:43 PM
[Sands descends from the law library stairs with wide eyes and hair turned white]

[He holds the Civil Procedure casebook in one hand and the E&E in the other hand]

[He steps down slowly as if each step might be his last - thunder and lightning can be seen in the background - the wind blows fiercely]

[and then he musters enough strength to finally speak...]


"It friday night, 1:45 am, and I now possess the full knowledge of the ERIE DOCTRINE!!!"

[2010 space odyssey music - screen fades to black - credits roll]
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 23, 2005, 12:07:16 AM
[Sands descends from the law library stairs with wide eyes and hair turned white]

[He holds the Civil Procedure casebook in one hand and the E&E in the other hand]

[He steps down slowly as if each step might be his last - thunder and lightning can be seen in the background - the wind blows fiercely]

[and then he musters enough strength to finally speak...]


"It friday night, 1:45 am, and I now possess the full knowledge of the ERIE DOCTRINE!!!"

[2010 space odyssey music - screen fades to black - credits roll]

Glad to hear it, but you know you are going to forget all that sh*t when you wake up in the morning  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 23, 2005, 10:08:07 AM
[Sands descends from the law library stairs with wide eyes and hair turned white]

[He holds the Civil Procedure casebook in one hand and the E&E in the other hand]

[He steps down slowly as if each step might be his last - thunder and lightning can be seen in the background - the wind blows fiercely]

[and then he musters enough strength to finally speak...]


"It friday night, 1:45 am, and I now possess the full knowledge of the ERIE DOCTRINE!!!"

[2010 space odyssey music - screen fades to black - credits roll]

Glad to hear it, but you know you are going to forget all that sh*t when you wake up in the morning  ;D


Don't jinx me!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shiveringjenny on April 23, 2005, 11:12:52 AM
[Sands descends from the law library stairs with wide eyes and hair turned white]

[He holds the Civil Procedure casebook in one hand and the E&E in the other hand]

[He steps down slowly as if each step might be his last - thunder and lightning can be seen in the background - the wind blows fiercely]

[and then he musters enough strength to finally speak...]


"It friday night, 1:45 am, and I now possess the full knowledge of the ERIE DOCTRINE!!!"

[2010 space odyssey music - screen fades to black - credits roll]

This was a pretty awesome post.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 23, 2005, 12:02:03 PM
thanks girl, that's just how I felt last night after the light bulb turned on after a full night's studying.  where you been lately?  laying low?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shiveringjenny on April 23, 2005, 06:28:32 PM
I have a lot of stuff to take care of in real life suddenly. i just discovered that i don't have on-campus housing for next term, so now i have to figure out how to rent an apartment and pay for it and all that *&^%. i'm too young to live on my own. i want my momma  :'(

also, my troubles are compounded by the fact that my bf didn't get housing either, so we will probably be living in sin next year. i know this is gonna piss off my parents, but it seems to the most reasonable and efficient course of action-- together, we can get a way better apartment than we could separately and i already know what it's like to live with him since we are neighbors on the same floor and i usually sleep in his room.

it just seems like a big, scary step. ::sigh::
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 23, 2005, 06:38:52 PM
I have a lot of stuff to take care of in real life suddenly. i just discovered that i don't have on-campus housing for next term, so now i have to figure out how to rent an apartment and pay for it and all that sh*t. i'm too young to live on my own. i want my momma  :'(

also, my troubles are compounded by the fact that my bf didn't get housing either, so we will probably be living in sin next year. i know this is gonna piss off my parents, but it seems to the most reasonable and efficient course of action-- together, we can get a way better apartment than we could separately and i already know what it's like to live with him since we are neighbors on the same floor and i usually sleep in his room.

it just seems like a big, scary step. ::sigh::

living in sin..haha Jlf you're crazy girl.  Hope everything works out though.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 24, 2005, 11:00:21 AM
yeah be careful with that.

the true colors come out when you live with somebody day in and day out!!!! lol
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 24, 2005, 01:26:54 PM
Good luck JLF and be careful. Living with someone opens your up to a lot of behavors you might not have been aware of. I can't do the cohabitation thing. I need my own space and the only time I'm willing to give that up is when I'm married...Hmmm another topic in the making....

::Runs off to the women's thread::
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 24, 2005, 01:50:08 PM
1Ls did any of you wonder how you could study criminal law and only cover two crimes all semester?  :D or was the experience different for you?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 24, 2005, 02:58:49 PM
I'd have to say it was mad different for us.  We studied crazy cases in that class.  Crim Pro may be a different story though.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 24, 2005, 08:12:58 PM
Just stopped in to say hey . .. .
Sands, I wish I knew the Erie Doctrine . .. civ pro is my last exam.  I am trying to make sense of federalism, political question, and separation of powers.  Sigh. Then, I have to move (tomorrow night or tuesday night, depending on how con law is going) to defenses to contract formation, third party beneficiary and all of the glory of 2d semester contracts.  Ya'll keep your heads up. 

Nice pic, Sands. I think I have a crush . . .. . . :P  As long as you aren't a stalker!!!!  ;)

Everyone good luck with finals and such. 

Back to con law . . . .
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 24, 2005, 08:27:28 PM
Just stopped in to say hey . .. .
Sands, I wish I knew the Erie Doctrine . .. civ pro is my last exam.  I am trying to make sense of federalism, political question, and separation of powers.  Sigh. Then, I have to move (tomorrow night or tuesday night, depending on how con law is going) to defenses to contract formation, third party beneficiary and all of the glory of 2d semester contracts.  Ya'll keep your heads up. 

Nice pic, Sands. I think I have a crush . . .. . . :P  As long as you aren't a stalker!!!!  ;)

Everyone good luck with finals and such. 

Back to con law . . . .

what about my pic? how come no one gives me any compliments!!??
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 24, 2005, 08:30:13 PM
Just stopped in to say hey . .. .
Sands, I wish I knew the Erie Doctrine . .. civ pro is my last exam.  I am trying to make sense of federalism, political question, and separation of powers.  Sigh. Then, I have to move (tomorrow night or tuesday night, depending on how con law is going) to defenses to contract formation, third party beneficiary and all of the glory of 2d semester contracts.  Ya'll keep your heads up. 

Nice pic, Sands. I think I have a crush . . .. . . :P  As long as you aren't a stalker!!!!  ;)

Everyone good luck with finals and such. 

Back to con law . . . .

what about my pic? how come no one gives me any compliments!!??

Your pic is sooo sexy.  Happy now, #%@!?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 24, 2005, 08:30:30 PM
RBG I think you are so hot. You're making me wet.


:::BARF::: ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 24, 2005, 08:38:35 PM
Just stopped in to say hey . .. .
Sands, I wish I knew the Erie Doctrine . .. civ pro is my last exam.  I am trying to make sense of federalism, political question, and separation of powers.  Sigh. Then, I have to move (tomorrow night or tuesday night, depending on how con law is going) to defenses to contract formation, third party beneficiary and all of the glory of 2d semester contracts.  Ya'll keep your heads up. 

Nice pic, Sands. I think I have a crush . . .. . . :P  As long as you aren't a stalker!!!!  ;)

Everyone good luck with finals and such. 

Back to con law . . . .

what about my pic? how come no one gives me any compliments!!??

Your pic is sooo sexy.  Happy now, #%@!?

dude that's gay...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 24, 2005, 08:58:18 PM
Just stopped in to say hey . .. .
Sands, I wish I knew the Erie Doctrine . .. civ pro is my last exam.  I am trying to make sense of federalism, political question, and separation of powers.  Sigh. Then, I have to move (tomorrow night or tuesday night, depending on how con law is going) to defenses to contract formation, third party beneficiary and all of the glory of 2d semester contracts.  Ya'll keep your heads up. 

Nice pic, Sands. I think I have a crush . . .. . . :P  As long as you aren't a stalker!!!!  ;)

Everyone good luck with finals and such. 

Back to con law . . . .

what about my pic? how come no one gives me any compliments!!??

Your pic is sooo sexy.  Happy now, #%@!?

dude that's gay...

 :-X
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 25, 2005, 08:39:52 AM
Just stopped in to say hey . .. .
Sands, I wish I knew the Erie Doctrine . .. civ pro is my last exam.  I am trying to make sense of federalism, political question, and separation of powers.  Sigh. Then, I have to move (tomorrow night or tuesday night, depending on how con law is going) to defenses to contract formation, third party beneficiary and all of the glory of 2d semester contracts.  Ya'll keep your heads up. 

Nice pic, Sands. I think I have a crush . . .. . . :P  As long as you aren't a stalker!!!!  ;)

Everyone good luck with finals and such. 

Back to con law . . . .

what about my pic? how come no one gives me any compliments!!??

Your pic is sooo sexy.  Happy now, #%@!?

dude that's gay...

 :-X

Wait, RBG is not Gay anymore? 


SMU, I see ya.  Holla at me when you get to Erie. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 25, 2005, 08:47:37 AM

Wait, RBG is not Gay anymore?

SMU, I see ya.  Holla at me when you get to Erie. 

Don't take it out on me El DeBarge; you'll have another hit soon.  :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 25, 2005, 09:17:12 AM
Sands, I will seek your knowledge of Erie once I get to studying civ pro (which will be, more than likely, 48 hrs before the final).

1L's, what are your final exam schedules like?

Me:

Constitutional Law: tomorrow
Contracts: thursday
Property: next moday
Torts: next wednesday
Civ pro: next friday.

all at 1:30 in the afternoon.

I haven't looked at anything for property or civ pro.  . . . .I may be in deep doo doo, esp for property b/c I don't have an old outline for that class--its been four years since this guy taught property, so we don't have old exams or anything.  All of you pre 1L's, I hope you're enjoying the time before the hellacious experience of your 1L year!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 25, 2005, 10:43:29 AM
SMU, I feel ya girl, but I don't have my exams for another 2 weeks. Thank goodness. But none of us have any idea where the hell our crim law professor is coming from, 75% of the class has just stopped attending contracts class all together (NO JOKE!) the only class I actually feel a little safe in is Property, but then I started reviewing again today all I wanted to scream. Good luck on your exams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 25, 2005, 11:19:41 AM
SMU, I feel ya girl, but I don't have my exams for another 2 weeks. Thank goodness. But none of us have any idea where the hell our crim law professor is coming from, 75% of the class has just stopped attending contracts class all together (NO JOKE!) the only class I actually feel a little safe in is Property, but then I started reviewing again today all I wanted to scream. Good luck on your exams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone good luck on your finals.  I know you all will do great.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 25, 2005, 11:43:46 AM
Sands, I will seek your knowledge of Erie once I get to studying civ pro (which will be, more than likely, 48 hrs before the final).

1L's, what are your final exam schedules like?

Me:

Constitutional Law: tomorrow
Contracts: thursday
Property: next moday
Torts: next wednesday
Civ pro: next friday.

all at 1:30 in the afternoon.

I haven't looked at anything for property or civ pro.  . . . .I may be in deep doo doo, esp for property b/c I don't have an old outline for that class--its been four years since this guy taught property, so we don't have old exams or anything.  All of you pre 1L's, I hope you're enjoying the time before the hellacious experience of your 1L year!!!!



My Schedule:

Con Law: Next Tues
Fair Housing (Statutory Interpretation): Next Fri
Crim Pro: Next, Next Tues
Civ Pro: Take home from next, next tues - fri
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 25, 2005, 12:04:21 PM
ewww 1L finals sound creepy. Good luck guys.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 25, 2005, 12:30:50 PM
ewww 1L finals sound creepy. Good luck guys.

They are, I cant wait to be on the other end of them.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 25, 2005, 12:35:37 PM
ewww 1L finals sound creepy. Good luck guys.

They are, I cant wait to be on the other end of them.

Jerk  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 25, 2005, 12:47:16 PM
ewww 1L finals sound creepy. Good luck guys.

They are, I cant wait to be on the other end of them.

Jerk  ;)

I know right?  Rat bastahd professors.

Already knocked out LRW, so that's done.

Civ Pro - Next Monday 8 am
Jurisdprudence - Next Tuesday - take home
Con Law - The following Monday - 8 am

They're finally letting us use computers on the exams this semester and moving away from the old school.  The irony is that my exams this semester are short answer and multiple choice, not the standard Essay exam.  It would have been helpful to have this last semester.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 25, 2005, 12:56:55 PM
Law school exams make me nauseous...:'(

I was visiting on of the law professors at my UG and the students there look like they have been smoking crack.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 25, 2005, 01:20:33 PM
You guys are going to have so much fun next year.  And we're going to have even more fun watching you go thru it. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 25, 2005, 01:23:22 PM
Haha, I'm not going to show my ass. I'm going to keep cool...in public at least.  8)

I won't crack under pressure....I won't crack under pressure...I'll use crack under pressure.  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 25, 2005, 03:10:42 PM
ewww 1L finals sound creepy. Good luck guys.

They are, I cant wait to be on the other end of them.

Jerk  ;)

 :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 25, 2005, 03:12:24 PM
Haha, I'm not going to show my ass. I'm going to keep cool...in public at least.  8)

I won't crack under pressure....I won't crack under pressure...I'll use crack under pressure.  ;)

This is you next year...

PRESSURE
Crack
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 25, 2005, 03:13:14 PM
ewww 1L finals sound creepy. Good luck guys.

They are, I cant wait to be on the other end of them.

Jerk  ;)



I know right?  Rat bastahd professors.

Already knocked out LRW, so that's done.

Civ Pro - Next Monday 8 am
Jurisdprudence - Next Tuesday - take home
Con Law - The following Monday - 8 am

They're finally letting us use computers on the exams this semester and moving away from the old school.  The irony is that my exams this semester are short answer and multiple choice, not the standard Essay exam.  It would have been helpful to have this last semester.

Dont make me call your professors and tell them to hit you with some OLD FASHIONED essay exams!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Lawprofessor on April 25, 2005, 03:31:01 PM
Law school exams make me nauseous...:'(

I was visiting on of the law professors at my UG and the students there look like they have been smoking crack.

1st year will do that to you.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 25, 2005, 09:28:59 PM
Law school exams make me nauseous...:'(

I was visiting on of the law professors at my UG and the students there look like they have been smoking crack.

1st year will do that to you.

Who you tellin.


You gotta understand, we are taking 4 months (at some schools an entire year) of legal knowledge and cramming it into a 3 or 4 hour exam.

Re-goddamn-diculous.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 25, 2005, 09:33:42 PM
PICTURE HELP!  Someone please help me post my pic/avatar...I'm ready to reveal myself to the world...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 25, 2005, 09:38:40 PM
Creepy..you actually look normal. I was expecting some weird looking white dude...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 25, 2005, 09:43:29 PM
Creepy..you actually look normal. I was expecting some weird looking white dude...

LOL
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 25, 2005, 09:51:51 PM
Wait are you the one was mean to Ruskie?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 25, 2005, 09:56:16 PM
Wait are you the one was mean to Ruskie?

I've never been mean to ANYONE.  But when I do post, people get pissed.  I'm the one that asked "when is Ruskie coming back" and everyone jumped down my throat.  Then someone sent me a pm about the inside thing about lil token and I posted "thanks lil birdie" and Ruskie didn't like that.  The people that were mean to her were the ones talking ish on the football player/aspiring artist/Mmm mmm good guy.  I just read posts, and try to post where I fit in, which is no where.  LOL!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 25, 2005, 09:59:03 PM
I see you mid-west!  Its about time you came out the closet.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 25, 2005, 10:05:33 PM
Very intersting. You are a lurker..that's creepy. So what else have you seen?!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 25, 2005, 10:30:02 PM
Very intersting. You are a lurker..that's creepy. So what else have you seen?!

I've seen it all!  I'll still be a creepy lurker though, that's just my personality.  I don't talk or socialize much...no need to develop a new persona online.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 25, 2005, 10:32:54 PM
So you have stalker-like tendencies? Interesting...very interesting... ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 25, 2005, 10:34:08 PM
hey...i wasn't being mean LOL  ;D...welcome to the board.. hope you stick around


Wait are you the one was mean to Ruskie?

I've never been mean to ANYONE.  But when I do post, people get pissed.  I'm the one that asked "when is Ruskie coming back" and everyone jumped down my throat.  Then someone sent me a pm about the inside thing about lil token and I posted "thanks lil birdie" and Ruskie didn't like that.  The people that were mean to her were the ones talking ish on the football player/aspiring artist/Mmm mmm good guy.  I just read posts, and try to post where I fit in, which is no where.  LOL!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 26, 2005, 08:33:00 AM
Very intersting. You are a lurker..that's creepy. So what else have you seen?!

I've seen it all!  I'll still be a creepy lurker though, that's just my personality.  I don't talk or socialize much...no need to develop a new persona online.

How come it seems like all black law school chicks are shy and quiet? Very weird...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 26, 2005, 08:40:31 AM
there are a lot that are outgoing.. i think you'll find a good mix @ harvard...



How come it seems like all black law school chicks are shy and quiet? Very weird...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 26, 2005, 08:56:36 AM
My brain hurts.  I have roughly 3.5 hours to my con law exam.  I am a bundle of nerves.  I should be reviewing my outline, but all of the words are starting to run together. 

Best of luck to all 1Ls on finals . . .though it looks like I'm the first one up for a beating this semester. 

Take deep breaths, calm down . . . . . .



Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 26, 2005, 09:41:35 AM
My brain hurts.  I have roughly 3.5 hours to my con law exam.  I am a bundle of nerves.  I should be reviewing my outline, but all of the words are starting to run together. 

Best of luck to all 1Ls on finals . . .though it looks like I'm the first one up for a beating this semester. 

Take deep breaths, calm down . . . . . .

I remember this feeling from midterms, and I am soooooo dreading it come finals, I'm starting to feel nauseous just after reading and thinking about this post.........drink some water, do some Woo-Sa exercises, and relax. You'll be fine, remember people (some whom you've never met lol) are pulling for you to do well and Good Luck!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 26, 2005, 09:43:02 AM
Thanks Ladyday!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 26, 2005, 10:08:26 AM
Thanks Ladyday!!!!!

Ahh, yes...you will be fine.  Please come back and tell us about it.  I'm dreading my CON LAW exam, which is in exactly one week.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on April 26, 2005, 10:13:54 AM
My brain hurts.  I have roughly 3.5 hours to my con law exam.  I am a bundle of nerves.  I should be reviewing my outline, but all of the words are starting to run together. 

Best of luck to all 1Ls on finals . . .though it looks like I'm the first one up for a beating this semester. 

Take deep breaths, calm down . . . . . .





Hey Girl...I'm pulling for ya and Praying 4 ya....You'll do fine! :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 26, 2005, 10:41:06 AM
hey everyone, since exams are the subject, i have a story, my  homie at wisconsin called me last week and not saying hello or anything, homegirl was like hi, i have one minute to talk, she sounded all cracked out...then last night i was talking to my other friend at BC and he could hardly put together a complete sentence....now if i was walking around campus during undergrad lookin like a "motherless child" then i'm scared to death what will happen to me next year...

to everyone who's doing the damn thing & finishing up this semester good luck!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 26, 2005, 11:31:06 AM
Okay.  ONe hour until show time.  I'm checking out . . . .

Con law, here I come!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 26, 2005, 02:23:47 PM
Okay.  ONe hour until show time.  I'm checking out . . . .

Con law, here I come!!!!!!!!

I'll throw one up for ya.  Let us know how they tried to bring it on the Con Law exam.  (I need the pointers)

Somehow I've done substantially less study time this semester than last semester yet I know more material...go figure.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 26, 2005, 02:29:44 PM
Okay.  ONe hour until show time.  I'm checking out . . . .

Con law, here I come!!!!!!!!

I'll throw one up for ya.  Let us know how they tried to bring it on the Con Law exam.  (I need the pointers)

Somehow I've done substantially less study time this semester than last semester yet I know more material...go figure.

B/c you've learned how to read a case in 2 minutes and automatically see the issue, whereas before it would take you an hour just to read it. And you've realized that in some classes it's not even necessary to read the cases (or it's not as deep).
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 26, 2005, 02:47:11 PM
Okay.  ONe hour until show time.  I'm checking out . . . .

Con law, here I come!!!!!!!!

I'll throw one up for ya.  Let us know how they tried to bring it on the Con Law exam.  (I need the pointers)

Somehow I've done substantially less study time this semester than last semester yet I know more material...go figure.

B/c you've learned how to read a case in 2 minutes and automatically see the issue, whereas before it would take you an hour just to read it. And you've realized that in some classes it's not even necessary to read the cases (or it's not as deep).

That's the clean truth.

Its amazing how you can hold down an entire class discussion on 4 or 5 cases without ever having read any of the cases in their entirety.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 26, 2005, 04:01:23 PM
okay.  I just had a con law butt whooping.

Not because I couldn't see the issues, or write about the issues, but because my damn computer stopped working during the exam!!!!!

Of course, an hour after the exam ended, the thing is working fine.  I had to write the second half of my exam.  I am exhausted.

As for the issues, watch out for the ICC, even if it doesn't look like its present.  It probably is.  It was one of the last issues that I spotted, and even though it didn't matter in the end to the outcome of the question, there were enough facts to warrant a good discussion.

Oh . .. my .. . . still recovering from the catastrophe . . . .

Oh, my . . . . .

Oh, my . . . ..

If something happens with your computer, don't panic.  I think this is what tripped me up.  I had a good momentum going and then the computer froze, and I freaked out.  I lost about 10-15 minutes of ground trying to recover from the shock.  But I did the best that I could, I just hate that I couldn't reference case names the way that I wanted to, because I was just writing nonstop by that point even though the exam was open book. 

Damn.  Contracts in less than 48 hours . . . .I hope that goes better than Con Law!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 26, 2005, 04:05:07 PM
Wow good stuff girl. I'm so happy that you got that knocked out of the way. Hey besides Sands, did the other 1Ls find jobs for this summer or are you going to do some sort of research?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 26, 2005, 04:06:23 PM
I've been having nightmares about that very same thing happening to me, it didn't happen the first time around, but I may need to borrow someone else's laptop for back up.

I'm glad you survived it though!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 26, 2005, 05:31:55 PM
Congrats SMU. One down, a couple more to go.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: risingMC on April 27, 2005, 02:24:32 PM
Can I ask a couple of the 1Ls to post their experience with lenders? Some of us are trying to make sense of who to take out our private and stafford loans with, and we'd benefit from some experienced opinions:

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,32004.0.html

Much, much thanks :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 27, 2005, 03:39:19 PM
Can I ask a couple of the 1Ls to post their experience with lenders? Some of us are trying to make sense of who to take out our private and stafford loans with, and we'd benefit from some experienced opinions:

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,32004.0.html

Much, much thanks :)

Sorry I can't be of any help b/c I didn't take out any private loans. But for my federal I used Access b/c I liked their terms better and b/c they waived the $500 charge to set up the account (which all other lenders charge) so I actually was loaned the full $18,500 and not $18,000. Good luck though  :).
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: risingMC on April 27, 2005, 03:50:12 PM

Sorry I can't be of any help b/c I didn't take out any private loans. But for my federal I used Access b/c I liked their terms better and b/c they waived the $500 charge to set up the account (which all other lenders charge) so I actually was loaned the full $18,500 and not $18,000. Good luck though  :).

Thanks, ladyday! Do you remember, though, if access charged you any other sort of fee? I kinda remember a guarantee fee, but that may have just been for the private loans.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 27, 2005, 04:00:00 PM

Sorry I can't be of any help b/c I didn't take out any private loans. But for my federal I used Access b/c I liked their terms better and b/c they waived the $500 charge to set up the account (which all other lenders charge) so I actually was loaned the full $18,500 and not $18,000. Good luck though  :).

Thanks, ladyday! Do you remember, though, if access charged you any other sort of fee? I kinda remember a guarantee fee, but that may have just been for the private loans.

Nope, no other charges, but for people with messed up credit, I do seem to remember from last summer people saying Citibank is a little more lax for people with problems in that area.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 27, 2005, 04:18:29 PM
This was actually posted in another area on the board, and people were wondering what current law students think. Really, I think this guy is on point, so remember this thread once you guys start LS:

I'm now a 2L and I ended up in the top 3% of my class. I see some 1L's on here asking for advice, so here's mine.

Succeeding in law school is all about WHAT you study not HOW MUCH you study. Other than during the month before finals, I didn't spend more than 2-3 hours a day on law school outside of class. Spending huge quantities of time isn't necessary. I know people who spent 12 hours a day studying... and failed out. Me, I like my free time. I like to hang out with my girlfriend, go to the gym, go out, play xbox, drink beer, etc. So I make sure that every second I spend on law school is efficient.

In the interest of saving time and being a lazy ass, you can get by with reading the case notes on the case. Don't brief cases. Tear out the case notes and put them in a binder. Your prof won't know the difference. I think the High Court Case Summaries are by far the best. Your brief will never be as good as those anyway. The exception to this rule is probably Con Law. Actually read those cases. It's sort of interesting to see what utterly amazingly good bullshitters these supreme court judges are.

Regardless of whether you read the case notes or the actual case, always read the notes after the case in your case book. Professors love to take hypos from there, and those notes often summarize difficult concepts quite nicely. Once you complete a section, bust out your supplement of choice and review that section. Do the practice question on that section as well. This will help cement that point of law into your head. All the top students I know did this.

People learn at different paces. If you're not as quick picking up new concepts as others, then I think you should buy the Sum and Substance CD's for that subject. Listen to the lecture on the current topic before you have the class on that topic and before you do the reading on that topic.

Do not spend time reviewing cases or discussing them once you have completed that case in class. It's a waste of time. Time that would be much more productively spent with a good supplement.

If your school offers extra sections taught by other students (usually the one who booked the class), GO TO THEM. Often the professor will have made the handouts. In my Civil Procedure class, the handouts were the professor's definitions for everything and an exact outline of how he would like your answer on the final framed. To miss out on that is utter stupidity. I had two friends who didn't go to that extra class - they both failed.

Always remember that you are studying for the exam. What you need to know for the exam is the black letter law, how to apply it, and how to combine your knowledge and analysis into a great answer. The best way I found to learn the black letter law was to use the Emanuel's flash cards. They're extremely thorough, they do NOT miss any topic at all. Don't make your own, you WILL miss a topic. Also, 3/4 of the flash cards are quizzing you on the black letter law with hypos. Each hypo is one of the common ways people misconstrue the law. Going through these flash cards is, imho, the single best use of your study time.

Once you're about halfway throughout the course, you should be practicing writing essay answers. Use your professor's old tests, other professor's old tests, old tests from other law schools, anything you can find.

I personally use the Examples and Explanations series as I go through the course. After each topic in class, I read the topic in the E&E book and do all the practice questions. With about 6 weeks to go before finals, I start on the flash cards. I typically go through the deck 3-4 times, about once a week while studying for finals. Then I do every practice question I can find. BarBri, PMBR, ExamPro, Emanuels, anything and everything. By the time I take a test I have probably done 500 multiple choice questions and have wrote about 3-4 full legnth test answers. When you do this much practice, there is nothing left that will trick you, and you will know how to write an answer for that subject. 95% of your grade is on ANALYSIS. therefore, you need a TON of practice analyzing. if you only study the black letter law, you're not going to do well at all.

some random thoughts:
-studying with anybody else is a waste of time. you will end up socializing.
-you probably won't read the horn book anyway, spend your money in a good supplement.
-pmbr cd's are good for review. sum and substance cd's are good for learning the subject in the first place. they're also a good cure for insomnia.
-The BarBri outline is better and more thorough than whatever one your friend gave you or the one that was passed around on email.
-speaking of BarBri.. that book is like gold. the outlines are amazing and there are tons of practice questions with answers. join BarBri, buy that book, and use it. if you can't afford it, become a barbri rep and it's free.
-don't get stressed out. sometimes I think its more important to blow off studying for the night (of course make sure you read the case notes for the next day's classes) and go relax/drink/get laid than to actually study.
-like law school. if you don't, you're never going to be able to compete with those of us who honstly love it.
-do your own goddam research. sure, you can get somebody else to give you the best cases for your paper in your legal writing class, but then you're going to get an internship and not know jack *&^% about using westlaw and you will look stupid.
-kiss ass. lots of it. you never know who in your class might have the connections to help you get a job. you never know which professor might either.
-type your exams. if you can't type, learn. now. i can type 100 words a minute. there's simply no way in 4 hours that you can come close to writing anywhere near what I can type.
-don't talk about the final after you take it. you'll just start doubting yourself. go get drunk.
-its not really a good idea to sleep with people in your class.
-don't be afraid to ask the top students for help if you need it. some are assholes and won't help you. some are like me and will spend 3 hours explaining the rule against perpetuities to you if you need it.
-don't let your professor catch you im'ing in class. it pisses them off.
-professors love hearing their own words. when they give their definition in class, write it down, memorize it, and spit it back to them verbatum on their test.
-con law sucks.
-don't ever let any dirt about you get out. don't let ANYBODY know who you dont completely trust. if you're an alcoholic, smoke weed, like to sleep with underage girls, etc., dont let anybody know. some ass will report you to the bar.
-don't lie to a professor. EVER. if you get caught, its honor court time and the bar will royally screw with you when you try to get admitted. if you skip class because you felt like it, and the professor asks why, dont make up an excuse. just tell the truth."
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 27, 2005, 04:24:59 PM
This post is so on point, people.  Read it and weep. 

Title: loot
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 27, 2005, 04:25:29 PM
Can I ask a couple of the 1Ls to post their experience with lenders? Some of us are trying to make sense of who to take out our private and stafford loans with, and we'd benefit from some experienced opinions:

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,32004.0.html

Much, much thanks :)

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!  MC you hit the million dollar question.


Last year this was without a doubt the single most stressful aspect of the entire law school process for me and just about everybody I know who entered in '04.  That's the chapter of Planet Law School that doesn't exist, the chapter for black folk with jacked up credit.  Once you get IN to law school that's just the start.  Then you have to find a way to pay for it.

So let's talk business.  First and foremost make sure your federal loan situation is in order.  If you have any outstanding federal loans from undergrad then either pay them up to balance or consolidate them through Federal Direct Consolidation.  That's so you can get the $18,500 from the gubment.  Don't ask me why they cap it at 18.5 for law school, they just do.  In fac the ABA is lobbying congress this year to try and get it raised.

Now for the private lenders, Citibank, Access Group and Sallie Mae are the standard issue lenders.  I had the most luck with Sallie Mae, and I tried them all, so you might want to give them a look. Your school's financial aid office will suggest a particular bank that you should have Sallie Mae send your loot to assuming that you are approved to recieve a private loan, and they will ask which bank when you go thru the whole app process.

If you are cool on the credit then congratulations!  If you are so-so on the credit, then you are goin to have to get a "co-signer" which is financial talk for "mission impossible".  Good luck.  I truly feel your pain.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: SheLaw on April 27, 2005, 04:32:46 PM
Thanks for the post lady, I gotta save that to my hard drive for future reference.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 27, 2005, 04:33:32 PM
This was actually posted in another area on the board, and people were wondering what current law students think. Really, I think this guy is on point, so remember this thread once you guys start LS:

I'm now a 2L and I ended up in the top 3% of my class. I see some 1L's on here asking for advice, so here's mine.

Succeeding in law school is all about WHAT you study not HOW MUCH you study. Other than during the month before finals...


This cat is on point for sho!  That is the clean truth!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 27, 2005, 04:35:44 PM
Loans? MC have you thought about talking to a financial advisor about your loan situation? Do you have tons of loans from UG?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: risingMC on April 27, 2005, 08:42:32 PM
Thanks, burning! I guess I should go find out what my credit score is ... I've always been too cheap to pay for the actual score (versus just the report), but it probably doesn't pay to be ignorant in this issue. For the first year I should probably not have to take out any private loans (thank you, americorps stipend!), but I'd like to be prepared, just in case I find that my finaid check leaves me a little short when it comes time to buy books. Don't worry, I'll probably come around here looking for food stamp advice in a couple months ...! ;) )

Muse: What's making this a little more complicated is that sls gets a cut of every loan that students take out with their recommended lender; granted, some of this money is going back to the school for future financial aid, but hey ... that $500 or so extra is worth more to me as a law student, whereas I hope to be able to effortlessly give much more than that later on as a full-fledged lawyer. As for Ugrad loans, I just have sub. federal loans (about $16K) and a tiny perkins loan ($2.5K); I'm able to take out the max in federal loans for my first year with no worries. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 27, 2005, 08:49:11 PM
Well that's good. Have you applied for various scholarships posted on teh board? Believe it or not a lot of students don't apply for scholarships.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: InVinoVeritas on April 27, 2005, 08:58:04 PM
thanks for taking the time to post that advice ladyday!  awesome stuff.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 28, 2005, 08:54:36 AM
Thanks, burning! I guess I should go find out what my credit score is ... I've always been too cheap to pay for the actual score (versus just the report), but it probably doesn't pay to be ignorant in this issue. For the first year I should probably not have to take out any private loans (thank you, americorps stipend!), but I'd like to be prepared, just in case I find that my finaid check leaves me a little short when it comes time to buy books. Don't worry, I'll probably come around here looking for food stamp advice in a couple months ...! ;) )



Hey that's great news. Avoid those private loans as long as you can.  The less you have to borrow the better for when you get out. Law School will teach you to hustle. And oh yeah, the foodstamps will be waiting for you [smile].
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: risingMC on April 28, 2005, 09:00:01 AM
Well that's good. Have you applied for various scholarships posted on teh board? Believe it or not a lot of students don't apply for scholarships.

I've applied to about 6 or 7, but I've always had really bad luck with scholarship applications. I don't know why, but that's just how it turns out. Any money is good money, though, so I'm still doing my searching ...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 28, 2005, 12:41:56 PM
Yeah, keep looking for loot.  Funding law school is the hardest part for most Black students since many of us are not coming from silver spoon backgrounds.  Any money you can get grab it.

I had to do what I had to do to make it thru this joint and just get here.  I'm living proof that you don't need a private loan to make it through law school. Its doable.  Where there's a will there's a way.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on April 28, 2005, 12:46:16 PM
Yeah, keep looking for loot.  Funding law school is the hardest part for most Black students since many of us are not coming from silver spoon backgrounds.  Any money you can get grab it.

I had to do what I had to do to make it thru this joint and just get here.  I'm living proof that you don't need a private loan to make it through law school. Its doable.  Where there's a will there's a way.

Sands I remember when u were talking about needing a cosigner....If u don't mind me askin how did u get your money for ls?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 28, 2005, 01:04:42 PM
Theme song from the TV show, "Silver Spoons" LMAO...

Here we are face to face
A couple of silver spoons
We're hoping to find
We're two of a kind
Making a go, making it grow

Together, we're going to find our way
Together, taking the time each day
To learn all about those things you just can't buy

Two silver spoons together
You and I together
(We're going to find our way)
You and I together
(We're going to find our way)
You and I together

Back on topic, my philosophy is to avoid loans by any means necessary. There are so many scholarships out there that no one applies for. I would of course apply for loans, but at the same time be as diligent about getting outside scholarships as well.


 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 28, 2005, 08:06:25 PM
Wow good stuff girl. I'm so happy that you got that knocked out of the way. Hey besides Sands, did the other 1Ls find jobs for this summer or are you going to do some sort of research?

I have a paid internship for the summer :)  In-house Counsel w/a major corporation. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 28, 2005, 08:08:37 PM
Did anyone see the Apprentice?  (I know I should be studying for finals, but I needed the break!)  I think that it is safe to say that the next Apprentice will be a woman.  The final three are Tana, Kendra, and Craig.  There is no way in hell that they'd let a brotha be the next Apprentice. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 28, 2005, 10:40:37 PM
So I survived my contracts exam . . . .

And my computer worked the whole time!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Then I went to a concert (Juvenile) and to the Kappa coming out party. 

There was no way that I was going to be able to study tonight . . .so I took the night off. . .

tomorrow morning at 8:00 I start relearning property.

1L's, hang in there . . . .2 down, three to go for me!!!!!



Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 28, 2005, 10:41:40 PM
By the way sands, put that cute picture back up . . .jay z has nothing on you.  ;) ;) Tell him to get the dirt off his shoulder!!! :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 28, 2005, 10:50:48 PM

brings back memories.. I stepped with my alumnae chapter
last yr..we SERVED those other step teams when we came out to that track...

By the way sands, put that cute picture back up . . .jay z has nothing on you.  ;) ;) Tell him to get the dirt off his shoulder!!! :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 08:56:09 AM
Wow good stuff girl. I'm so happy that you got that knocked out of the way. Hey besides Sands, did the other 1Ls find jobs for this summer or are you going to do some sort of research?

I have a paid internship for the summer :)  In-house Counsel w/a major corporation. 

Whit, that's wsup!  You gonna be in Chicago?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 29, 2005, 08:57:33 AM
congrats 1lwhit!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 09:00:47 AM
By the way sands, put that cute picture back up . . .jay z has nothing on you.  ;) ;) Tell him to get the dirt off his shoulder!!! :P

Thank ya lady, but you know I gotta brush my shoulders off up in this piece.

What was the nupes looking like down there?

Good stuff on your K exam.  I hope the old trusty Burning Sands gangsta K outline helped out a little bit with that  ;) Complete with such classics as "Promissor - the cat who said..."
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 09:24:03 AM
Yeah, keep looking for loot.  Funding law school is the hardest part for most Black students since many of us are not coming from silver spoon backgrounds.  Any money you can get grab it.

I had to do what I had to do to make it thru this joint and just get here.  I'm living proof that you don't need a private loan to make it through law school. Its doable.  Where there's a will there's a way.

Sands I remember when u were talking about needing a cosigner....If u don't mind me askin how did u get your money for ls?


Ms Jay - actually I was just telling somebody about this. 


Basically, it all boils down to the fact that you gotta HUSTLE!!!!  What I did worked for me, and might work for you in some form or fashion but more than likely your hustle is going to be slightly different from mine depending on what your resources are, who you know, etc.

I remember that damn thing like yesterday. Me and LadyDay were sitting around talking about how in the world we were gonna pay for law school with no private loan.  For me, I was about a week away from law school orientation and I was about $17,000 short of my total cost of attendance.  I had the standard $18,500 from the federal gov. and that was it.  I had struggled to get anybody to co-sign because black folk don't have good credit and if they do they ain't tryin to mess it up on no law student.  So I sold all my sh!t, packed up what was left, loaded up the truck and just said f*ck it and went to law school.

I hollered at my financial advisor because I had saved up loot in my 401k retirement plan for the past 3-4 years.  A 401k is for retirement, so if you take that money out then you will get a 20% penalty, and for me, I needed every dime.  As BP can probably tell you, it is possible to roll over a 401k into an IRA with no penalty and the rules governing IRA's will allow a complete 100% withdrawal for educational purposes, so I was able to withdraw all of it without getting a penalty.  And that's what I've been living off of for the whole year.   PLUS, I almost forgot, once you get INTO the school, the school will help you out.  I am VERY TIGHT with our financial aid director.  I've been rappin to her since day 1.  While I was waiting for that IRA to roll into my bank account (because it takes a while) I was dead broke so I went and hollered at Nicki (yeah we're on first name basis) and told her what my situation was and she kicked me down an emergency loan within 24 hours.

So if you guys are facing money troubles, which many of us do, realize that there is a way.  Under no circumstances should you not go to law school over some money technicalities.  I think its also important to point out that the "Total Cost of Attendance" is calculated for the Non-Hustler, ie, the cat who pays full price for everything and eats out every week.  Your TRUE Total Cost of attendance should be substantially less.  My school's Total Cost of attendance estimate is around $35,000.  I was able to make it this entire year only spending about $28,000 total on everything, rent, books, bills, car & car problems, cell, etc.  So don't let that overall number fool you if you are not able to raise the entire COA.

It was rough and frustrating and deperessing all in the same breath but only because I had the wrong expectations and the wrong viewpoint.  I wish that there would have been some 1L's last year who would have told me the real deal b/c I was THIS CLOSE to not going to law school over money last summer.

So for me, it was my 401k plan that I sacrificed to be here.  For somebody else it might be selling the hooptie, asking Uncle Tyrone for a person to person loan, whatever you gotta do. 


Think outside the box.


Sands
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 29, 2005, 10:13:33 AM
So I survived my contracts exam . . . .

And my computer worked the whole time!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Then I went to a concert (Juvenile) and to the Kappa coming out party. 

There was no way that I was going to be able to study tonight . . .so I took the night off. . .

tomorrow morning at 8:00 I start relearning property.

1L's, hang in there . . . .2 down, three to go for me!!!!!

That's good girl, sometimes you just gotta take a break or you'll lose it. I went to my contracts study group yesterday, and I passed these 2 girls in another section and they looked like zombies, I promised myself I will never do that to myself, if the sand man comes calling, I'm going to sleep, not abusing my body, it's counter-productive anyways.


Loans? Financial Aid? My remedy? I just prayed, and the creator came through. I'll just have to pray for everyone else (and myself) for this upcoming school year. Just do whatever it takes.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 29, 2005, 10:17:13 AM
Solid post Sands, and good move on the 401k, I likes to see stuff like that.  There is another way you could have gotten all of it straight from your 401k without having to do the roll-over, but f*ck it, you made it work, that's the point.

I like your reference to the Non-hustler cost as well.  That is soo true.  If I could find a way to come from another country and get my first two years of undergrad paid for (all the way down to air-fare) y'all cats can get on the grind and make this law school thing happen.

Good stuff Sands.

edit: And now that I think about it, the IRA move probably works out to be the slickest way anyhow....hahha, good sh*t.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 29, 2005, 10:18:29 AM
kappa coming out party? y'all know that can have a totally different meaning? you mean their probate show/party, right? lol!  :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 29, 2005, 10:25:53 AM
kappa coming out party? y'all know that can have a totally different meaning? you mean their probate show/party, right? lol!  :P

hehehe.....using glitter and stuff..........
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: risingMC on April 29, 2005, 10:27:07 AM
Sands, that was an absolutely beautiful post. I've seen way too many people give up on their dreams for financial reasons, and I'm determined not to have that be me. Even if it means finding creative ways of paying for living expenses.  Thanks so much for sharing ... I just wish more people knew what was possible.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 29, 2005, 10:27:25 AM
 :D :D :D

kappa coming out party? y'all know that can have a totally different meaning? you mean their probate show/party, right? lol!  :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on April 29, 2005, 10:28:10 AM
Yeah, keep looking for loot.  Funding law school is the hardest part for most Black students since many of us are not coming from silver spoon backgrounds.  Any money you can get grab it.

I had to do what I had to do to make it thru this joint and just get here.  I'm living proof that you don't need a private loan to make it through law school. Its doable.  Where there's a will there's a way.

Sands I remember when u were talking about needing a cosigner....If u don't mind me askin how did u get your money for ls?


Ms Jay - actually I was just telling somebody about this. 


Basically, it all boils down to the fact that you gotta HUSTLE!!!!  What I did worked for me, and might work for you in some form or fashion but more than likely your hustle is going to be slightly different from mine depending on what your resources are, who you know, etc.

I remember that damn thing like yesterday. Me and LadyDay were sitting around talking about how in the world we were gonna pay for law school with no private loan.  For me, I was about a week away from law school orientation and I was about $17,000 short of my total cost of attendance.  I had the standard $18,500 from the federal gov. and that was it.  I had struggled to get anybody to co-sign because black folk don't have good credit and if they do they ain't tryin to mess it up on no law student.  So I sold all my sh!t, packed up what was left, loaded up the truck and just said f*ck it and went to law school.

I hollered at my financial advisor because I had saved up loot in my 401k retirement plan for the past 3-4 years.  A 401k is for retirement, so if you take that money out then you will get a 20% penalty, and for me, I needed every dime.  As BP can probably tell you, it is possible to roll over a 401k into an IRA with no penalty and the rules governing IRA's will allow a complete 100% withdrawal for educational purposes, so I was able to withdraw all of it without getting a penalty.  And that's what I've been living off of for the whole year.   PLUS, I almost forgot, once you get INTO the school, the school will help you out.  I am VERY TIGHT with our financial aid director.  I've been rappin to her since day 1.  While I was waiting for that IRA to roll into my bank account (because it takes a while) I was dead broke so I went and hollered at Nicki (yeah we're on first name basis) and told her what my situation was and she kicked me down an emergency loan within 24 hours.

So if you guys are facing money troubles, which many of us do, realize that there is a way.  Under no circumstances should you not go to law school over some money technicalities.  I think its also important to point out that the "Total Cost of Attendance" is calculated for the Non-Hustler, ie, the cat who pays full price for everything and eats out every week.  Your TRUE Total Cost of attendance should be substantially less.  My school's Total Cost of attendance estimate is around $35,000.  I was able to make it this entire year only spending about $28,000 total on everything, rent, books, bills, car & car problems, cell, etc.  So don't let that overall number fool you if you are not able to raise the entire COA.

It was rough and frustrating and deperessing all in the same breath but only because I had the wrong expectations and the wrong viewpoint.  I wish that there would have been some 1L's last year who would have told me the real deal b/c I was THIS CLOSE to not going to law school over money last summer.

So for me, it was my 401k plan that I sacrificed to be here.  For somebody else it might be selling the hooptie, asking Uncle Tyrone for a person to person loan, whatever you gotta do. 


Think outside the box.


Sands


 :) Thanks Sands....
Aww man this post came right on time....I was just talking to the lady about drawing mine out and she hit me with the 20% tax thing...Now you saying I can just roll it into a IRA and get it all...Man that's good * & ^ %....After next year my employer will do a 50%match so whatever I have in there they will put 50% of that in with it so I'm going to wait until they do that and then draw it all out.....I am so hyped right now! :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on April 29, 2005, 10:35:59 AM
Hahah, yay Ms Jay, pimp the system....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 29, 2005, 10:37:03 AM
:) Thanks Sands....
Aww man this post came right on time....I was just talking to the lady about drawing mine out and she hit me with the 20% tax thing...Now you saying I can just roll it into a IRA and get it all...Man that's good * & ^ %....After next year my employer will do a 50%match so whatever I have in there they will put 50% of that in with it so I'm going to wait until they do that and then draw it all out.....I am so hyped right now! :)

 :D :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 29, 2005, 10:47:53 AM
Oh I almost forgot, I know at my school if you can prove you cannot get approved for a private loan, the school may also give you a loan, and you can ask them to increase it for your total COA as a final resort. And a loan with the school is def way better than a private loan, the terms are usually much more looser and the finance charges are usually cheaper. Just something to look into at your school.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 11:06:01 AM
Hey everybody, glad I could help.  Like I said, I wish that this time last year we had law students on the board who could have broke this down to me.  It would have saved me a lot of headache.

BP probably has even more tricks up his sleeve on the financial loopholes of the system.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on April 29, 2005, 11:38:12 AM
Wow good stuff girl. I'm so happy that you got that knocked out of the way. Hey besides Sands, did the other 1Ls find jobs for this summer or are you going to do some sort of research?

I have a paid internship for the summer :)  In-house Counsel w/a major corporation. 

Whit, that's wsup!  You gonna be in Chicago?

THANKS!  I'll be about 40 miles from downtown Chi.  I can't wait to experience Chicago this summer :)

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on April 29, 2005, 11:41:09 AM
hey 1L's, did y'all already have laptops going into law school or buy them before, or do you even use one?? did you buy it thru your schools's program if they had one or on your own time?? just wondering, thanks!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on April 29, 2005, 12:07:07 PM
Congrats!! You will love the city

I have a paid internship for the summer :)  In-house Counsel w/a major corporation. 


THANKS!  I'll be about 40 miles from downtown Chi.  I can't wait to experience Chicago this summer :)


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 12:13:31 PM
get whatever you can but don't feel compelled to buy a brand new 2,000 dollar laptop

I copped my from my sister who wasn't using hers and its worked out just fine.  Most schools will let you use them for exams.  My school just made that switch this year but will still allow you to do exams the old school way with pen and paper.  Some schools require laptops now.  Check your school and see if they require it or not and then decide if you need one to take notes or not.

Whit - I concur with Blk on that one. Chicago is the cleanest most beautiful large city in the US with maybe the exception of Miami.   But I may be biased because Chicago is the modern architecture capial of the US.  I always have a good time in Chi-Town, you will have a good time there no doubt.  Speaking of which, I gotta fly into Chicago in late July/early August for a Patent Law career fair.  Let me know if you'll still be in town around that time.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 29, 2005, 12:19:45 PM
A lot of my friends at my UG are going to Chicago for law school and to work...Nice city, very cold.  :'(
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: faith2005 on April 29, 2005, 12:22:16 PM
kappa coming out party? y'all know that can have a totally different meaning? you mean their probate show/party, right? lol!  :P

hehehe.....using glitter and stuff..........

i'm sorry. i promise i'll stop after this. this reminded me of the affirmative action march in D.C. (i'm sure some of y'all were there) so while walking around everybody is reppin their various organizations. there were even some black men wearing shirts and hats representing the masons. but one of them had a whole bunch of glitter on his hat. my girl and i just didn't know what kind of message he was tryna send with that... :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 29, 2005, 12:24:30 PM
Wait if anyone wants to see AMAZING architecture, go to Paris or Rome.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 29, 2005, 12:31:01 PM
No one cares about no alabama! :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 12:50:17 PM
kappa coming out party? y'all know that can have a totally different meaning? you mean their probate show/party, right? lol!  :P

hehehe.....using glitter and stuff..........

i'm sorry. i promise i'll stop after this. this reminded me of the affirmative action march in D.C. (i'm sure some of y'all were there) so while walking around everybody is reppin their various organizations. there were even some black men wearing shirts and hats representing the masons. but one of them had a whole bunch of glitter on his hat. my girl and i just didn't know what kind of message he was tryna send with that... :D

Yeah I don't know what Square was doing with glitter on his hat.

LadyDay - I saw that, you ain't slick.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 29, 2005, 12:52:02 PM
LMAO...there was this one kappa at my school (who was fine as hell) use to put glitter and rhinestones on his bandana and T-shirts. (don't ask me why..I was just a freshman at the time). He also had a picture of himself on his overall...  :-[
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 12:55:08 PM
[Sands suffering from a Civ Pro study group relapse mutters]


In a diversity case, under Rule 18 a party may join as many claims as possible that do not meet the minimum requirement of $75,000 so long as the aggregate of those claims is above $75,000.

[walks back into study room]
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 02:51:33 PM
my brain...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 29, 2005, 03:02:09 PM
Dang Sands.  I just left a civil procedure review and our teacher told us that.

I felt like i just studied for civ pro even though I really haven't.  Only half of my class was there . . .How can you not go to a review, given by your professor a week before the final?  It was very, very helpful.  She did a power point slideshow for us to fill in as she was doing the lecture and everything.

Things are looking up.

Plus, ya'll remember when I said I had to write my con law exam? Or half of it.  Rumor is that there was an ICC issue that a lot of people didn't see . . . .but I spent three pages in my bluebook talking about it!!! Score!!!

All I can say is keep the faith, everyone.  Cause I just knew that I was screwed on that exam, and things might be looking up.

As for property . . .I'm still on landlord tenant.  Oh, man.  I thought I was going to be so much farther, but I'm still hanging in here. . .

As for the jokes about the Kappa party . . .ya'll know what I meant.  I'm not into the whole frat /sorority thing, but a friend invited me and I went to support him.  :P  Besides, it made for a wonderful continuation of my study break after backing that thang up at the Juvenile concert.    :P

Sands, hang in there.  Are you done with con law yet?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 03:23:39 PM
Girl we ain't even STARTED con law.  I dont' even wanna think about strict scrutiny right now.

Its like every time you look at another chapter you see something you didn't know.  Every rule has an exception and then exceptions to the exceptions...

So let me get this straight, you have a problem with a cat, and you sue, but before you can sue you gotta decide between state or federal court (if u can get it) and even if you can get either one that court has to have jurisdiction over a cat, and oh by the way, don't forget about proper venue, and if you can get ALL of that, then you might get it into an actual court where the defendant will hit you with a 12b6 and toss your claim out, but if you can argue that down and actually look at the evidence then the defendant can still kill you on a summary judgment because even though your claim is valid there still ain't no damn genuine issue of fact...

...and ALL OF THAT IS BEFORE THE TRIAL EVEN STARTS.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 29, 2005, 03:24:16 PM
All of ya'll studying for con law exams . ..
Know the commerce clause and how lopez and morrison altered the three areas under which congress can pass legislation under the commerce clause.
Know about balancing power between the federal government and the states. There was lots of federal state overlap in my course, but it is just the first half of con law, so keep that in mind.

If you are taking practice exams from your old professors, don't let them pigeonhole your studying.  Lots of professors change their courses, and while they may have breezed through justiciability doctrines one year, they might have spent a lot of time on them this year.  Keep a balance in your head about what your professor emphasized and talked about this year.  Even old outlines have to be supplemented lots of times because profs change stuff around.

Bottom line . .. you have to know your stuff.

On that note, I have to get back to property.  
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 29, 2005, 03:29:23 PM
Girl we ain't even STARTED con law. I dont' even wanna think about strict scrutiny right now.

Its like every time you look at another chapter you see something you didn't know. Every rule has an exception and then exceptions to the exceptions...

So let me get this straight, you have a problem with a cat, and you sue, but before you can sue you gotta decide between state or federal court (if u can get it) and even if you can get either one that court has to have jurisdiction over a cat, and oh by the way, don't forget about proper venue, and if you can get ALL of that, then you might get it into an actual court where the defendant will hit you with a 12b6 and toss your claim out, but if you can argue that down and actually look at the evidence then the defendant can still kill you on a summary judgment because even though your claim is valid there still ain't no damn genuine issue of fact...

...and ALL OF THAT IS BEFORE THE TRIAL EVEN STARTS.



Sorry, but you forgot about removal. The defendant can remove to federal court, and then you have to remember all of the choice of law/Erie stuff. BEcause the court will consider like forum shopping (which might be the reason why the defendant is trying to remove to federal court), if the defendant is removing because of forum shopping, then the court is less likely to grant removal. Believe me, I still don't know jack squat about erie, but I know there's an overlap there. 

Okay, back to property. . .
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 03:42:39 PM
Girl we ain't even STARTED con law. I dont' even wanna think about strict scrutiny right now.

Its like every time you look at another chapter you see something you didn't know. Every rule has an exception and then exceptions to the exceptions...

So let me get this straight, you have a problem with a cat, and you sue, but before you can sue you gotta decide between state or federal court (if u can get it) and even if you can get either one that court has to have jurisdiction over a cat, and oh by the way, don't forget about proper venue, and if you can get ALL of that, then you might get it into an actual court where the defendant will hit you with a 12b6 and toss your claim out, but if you can argue that down and actually look at the evidence then the defendant can still kill you on a summary judgment because even though your claim is valid there still ain't no damn genuine issue of fact...

...and ALL OF THAT IS BEFORE THE TRIAL EVEN STARTS.



Sorry, but you forgot about removal. The defendant can remove to federal court, and then you have to remember all of the choice of law/Erie stuff. BEcause the court will consider like forum shopping (which might be the reason why the defendant is trying to remove to federal court), if the defendant is removing because of forum shopping, then the court is less likely to grant removal. Believe me, I still don't know jack squat about erie, but I know there's an overlap there. 

Okay, back to property. . .



Oh right right, then you have a removal to federal court which means that you still use state law on substantive issues (Erie) but if its a procedural issue then you use ferderal procedure UNLESS that procedural question is outcome determinative (York), in which case it is arguably substantive because it can change the outcome of the case if you don't follow the state procedure, so in that case you follow the state procedure UNLESS there is a larger federal question being argued like, oh I dunno, lets say your 7th amendment right to a jury trial, in that case the federal procedure would trump the state procedure (Byrd) because that's a (dare I say it) fundamental right...or alternatively if you have a case where the procedure would be outcome determinative depending on whether you use state of federal law you have to follow the federal rules of civ pro regardless of the fact that it would be outcome determinative or not (Hanna)...

...and then after you do all that, you can start talking about 12b6's and pleadings and discovery and interogatories and depositions...


...and THEN you can walk into the courtroom for trial and lose...

... then you appeal and start the whole thing over again.

...and then you lose again.

...and then you appeal and go to the supreme court and lose again.

The End.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Omegaman on April 29, 2005, 06:36:05 PM
LMAO...there was this one kappa at my school (who was fine as hell) use to put glitter and rhinestones on his bandana and T-shirts. (don't ask me why..I was just a freshman at the time). He also had a picture of himself on his overall...  :-[

Sounds about right ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 29, 2005, 07:33:27 PM
LMAO...there was this one kappa at my school (who was fine as hell) use to put glitter and rhinestones on his bandana and T-shirts. (don't ask me why..I was just a freshman at the time). He also had a picture of himself on his overall...  :-[

Sounds about right ;)

Omegaman . . .you have to provide a link to a life sized picture of the men so all the single women can see!!!!  :P
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Omegaman on April 29, 2005, 09:58:26 PM
LMAO...there was this one kappa at my school (who was fine as hell) use to put glitter and rhinestones on his bandana and T-shirts. (don't ask me why..I was just a freshman at the time). He also had a picture of himself on his overall...  :-[

Sounds about right ;)

Omegaman . . .you have to provide a link to a life sized picture of the men so all the single women can see!!!!  :P

workin' on it. Ill email them to you and then maybe you or anyone can post it. pm me.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 29, 2005, 11:44:37 PM
LMAO...there was this one kappa at my school (who was fine as hell) use to put glitter and rhinestones on his bandana and T-shirts. (don't ask me why..I was just a freshman at the time). He also had a picture of himself on his overall...  :-[

Sounds about right ;)

WHY YOU LITTLE...
(http://www.duffzone.co.uk/grabpics/family2.gif)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 30, 2005, 12:06:37 AM
Study break . . . .I am dancing around my bedroom blasting Usher's Confessions in my headphones . . . .

I know.  I'm real crazy.

Law school will do it to you.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shaz on April 30, 2005, 12:40:34 AM
Sounds like you are sleep deprived. ;D

Usher is a garden tool.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on April 30, 2005, 01:13:12 AM
JESUS M'F'N CHRIST!!!!!! Thank god i had civ pro last semester. I dont know what i would do if i had to think about that with con law.

Update in Albany - it is gettin to the wire.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 30, 2005, 01:16:02 AM
Sounds like you are sleep deprived. ;D

Usher is a garden tool.

Fine. My love is like Wo then . . . my computer is scrambling everything on my hard drive. 

And yes, I am sleep deprived, thank you very much.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 30, 2005, 01:55:19 AM
Only law students would be having these convo's at 3 in the morning.

Bubazz - good to see you back kid.  Holdin it down up there?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 30, 2005, 02:47:46 AM
Omegaman...lets be nice. Not all nupes are into the glitter. Some of them like the Hawaiian Silky at home kit...


(http://img221.echo.cx/img221/1403/nupes4mb.jpg)

Big Perms says: Good luck on exams 1Ls.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Omegaman on April 30, 2005, 02:51:10 AM
Omegaman...lets be nice. Not all nupes are into the glitter. Some of them like the Hawaiian Silky at home kit...


(http://img221.echo.cx/img221/1403/nupes4mb.jpg)

Big Perms says: Good luck on exams 1Ls.  ;) ;D

In the Spirit of the new BLSD, Im not saying nothing ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: shaz on April 30, 2005, 04:34:18 AM
what? is that a pirm or g-curl?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 30, 2005, 08:11:01 AM
Omegaman...lets be nice. Not all nupes are into the glitter. Some of them like the Hawaiian Silky at home kit...


(http://img221.echo.cx/img221/1403/nupes4mb.jpg)

Big Perms says: Good luck on exams 1Ls.  ;) ;D

In the Spirit of the new BLSD, Im not saying nothing ;)

 <smujd2007 is rolling on the floor laughing . . .>

What the heck kind of hairdo is that?

It puts my occasional afro to shame . . . :D :D :D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 30, 2005, 12:09:00 PM
Omegaman...lets be nice. Not all nupes are into the glitter. Some of them like the Hawaiian Silky at home kit...


(http://img221.echo.cx/img221/1403/nupes4mb.jpg)

Big Perms says: Good luck on exams 1Ls.  ;) ;D

In the Spirit of the new BLSD, Im not saying nothing ;)

 <smujd2007 is rolling on the floor laughing . . .>

What the heck kind of hairdo is that?

It puts my occasional afro to shame . . . :D :D :D

that is a downright shame
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 30, 2005, 12:11:16 PM
Speakin of mess, here go some sorors for ya Regal. 

(http://web.utk.edu/~akanet/prettygirlphotos/images/34.jpg)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 30, 2005, 12:19:32 PM
So I just woke up after I fell asleep drooling on my property notes . . . .

This is going to be a long weekend.

Sands, how is civ pro coming?

Are all the 1L's still holding up?

I'm gonna have to take a nap at some point . . .I did not get enough sleep last night and studying is counterproductive if you are too tired.

Really, it is.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 30, 2005, 12:28:03 PM
Yeah I can always tell when my brain is not working and its time to call it a night...or at least get a good power nap.  I'll be reading the same paragraph over and over and over and still won't get it.  At that point, its a done deal.

Civ pro is civ pro.

How about I STARTED to make my outline last night, 48 hours before the exam!  LOL

Ahhhhh....law school.

I'm very excited about seeing our current pre-laws in the hot seat this fall.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 30, 2005, 12:32:07 PM
Yeah I can always tell when my brain is not working and its time to call it a night...or at least get a good power nap. I'll be reading the same paragraph over and over and over and still won't get it. At that point, its a done deal.

Civ pro is civ pro.

How about I STARTED to make my outline last night, 48 hours before the exam! LOL

Ahhhhh....law school.

I'm very excited about seeing our current pre-laws in the hot seat this fall.

Can you take the outline into your civ pro exam? That's just how it goes.  The problem is there's just not enough time . . .its what the pre 1L's fail to realize.  With the brief, there is no time to outline this semester.  So we are all outlining the day before exams.  I'm trying to finish my property outline by tonight so that i can spend sunday and monday morning memorizing it, b/c the exam is closed book. 


As for civ pro, I'm just gonna have to pray on that one.  I may be able to start working on it on Tuesday, but I'm not going to hold my breath.  I have torts on wednesday and civ pro on friday, so dang it . . .this is going to be a long week.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 30, 2005, 01:01:28 PM
Speakin of mess, here go some sorors for ya Regal.

(http://web.utk.edu/~akanet/prettygirlphotos/images/34.jpg)

Sands, why are you talking about your ex girlfriends like that? You know you like them lite-brights... :P

This nupe say: Sands (my bad almost used that government name of yours), go study and stop messing with the K's
(http://www.stonemountainalumni.org/albums/ChapterAwards/ChapterAwards_005.jpg)


One of these things is not like the others....One of these things just doesn't belong... ;D

(http://img244.echo.cx/img244/1998/foundersday0813gi.jpg)


Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 30, 2005, 01:06:41 PM
(http://crosslandchurch.com/images/thirsty.png)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 30, 2005, 01:17:22 PM
There was a perpetrator in those photos you know that.  stop slidin yo bruhs in there  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 30, 2005, 01:19:18 PM
Embrace ALL of your brothers Sands.... 8)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 30, 2005, 01:40:07 PM
Embrace ALL of your brothers Sands.... 8)

That's easy.  Everybody on here has seen that I do just that, even in the face of adversity when that brotherhood is tested.


On a lighter note, what the hell are you doing this summer?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 30, 2005, 01:44:11 PM
Embrace ALL of your brothers Sands.... 8)

That's easy. Everybody on here has seen that I do just that, even in the face of adversity when that brotherhood is tested.


On a lighter note, what the hell are you doing this summer?


Me? I'm going to be in Geneva, Switzerland. Now who I'm doing is another story Muahahaha. Sorry I had to say that. What are YOU doing this summer besides working for "the man"?

Edit: Sands you look so cute in this picture!

(http://img148.echo.cx/img148/6915/bustedkappa0xy.jpg)
Damn boo you be working it!  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 30, 2005, 02:01:16 PM
What's with all the Kappa pics? You're like that little kid in the christmas story who kept asking for the BB gun - just don't know when to quit.  "You'll shoot our eye out kid"

Besides working for the man this summer I'll be actually seeing this thing around me called the east coast that I have neglected for the past 8-9 months.  It almost doesn't matter where you go to law school at b/c you barely have the time to look around.  Might as well be in Alaska.

What's in Switzerland besides the cheese?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Ladyday on April 30, 2005, 02:04:08 PM
hey 1L's, did y'all already have laptops going into law school or buy them before, or do you even use one?? did you buy it thru your schools's program if they had one or on your own time?? just wondering, thanks!

I bought mine going into law school. Unlike Sands, I did pay close to $2000. I actually bought it through a link that was in the General Board for 1L's last summer. I have a IBM thinkpad T41 and I love it and if I had to do it all over again I still would have bought it. I use my laptop for everthing, and we do use lap tops for exams, and it's so much better than writing, imagine how much more you can type than write! Good luck.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 30, 2005, 02:09:00 PM
What's with all the Kappa pics? You're like that little kid in the christmas story who kept asking for the BB gun - just don't know when to quit.  "You'll shoot our eye out kid"

Besides working for the man this summer I'll be actually seeing this thing around me called the east coast that I have neglected for the past 8-9 months.  It almost doesn't matter where you go to law school at b/c you barely have the time to look around.  Might as well be in Alaska.

What's in Switzerland besides the cheese?

The United Nations where I'll be interning at and have a fellowship with when the summer is over. Oh yah and skiing  :P

Aww don't be so sensitive Sands...I was only playing with you... ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 30, 2005, 02:22:42 PM
What's with all the Kappa pics? You're like that little kid in the christmas story who kept asking for the BB gun - just don't know when to quit.  "You'll shoot our eye out kid"

Besides working for the man this summer I'll be actually seeing this thing around me called the east coast that I have neglected for the past 8-9 months.  It almost doesn't matter where you go to law school at b/c you barely have the time to look around.  Might as well be in Alaska.

What's in Switzerland besides the cheese?

The United Nations where I'll be interning at and have a fellowship with when the summer is over. Oh yah and skiing  :P

Aww don't be so sensitive Sands...I was only playing with you... ;)

Oh I wasn't trippin off it at all. I think these pics are hilarious. I was just observing that you seemed to be devoted to pullin a lot of these joints out of your hat.  I know you're not getting serious on me here.

Good biz on the internship.  Get as much traveling in as possible before august.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on April 30, 2005, 03:31:22 PM
Perhaps...I know I'm going to be back in NYC again. I have some business out there to take care of before I leave the country.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on April 30, 2005, 03:45:57 PM
funny avatar
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on April 30, 2005, 05:40:33 PM
Random thought . . .I have this friend, that lives near campus, so I took a break to go visit her . .. she has a six year old kid and she's about to graduate from college. Man, I couldn't imagine having a kid and being in undergrad, let alone law school.  If there's anyone out there that has a kid and is going to school, big ups to ya'll, 'cause I don't think I could do it. I mean, I was playing with the kid, and it was fun, 'cause I love kids, but if I actually had stuff to do?  I'd never get anything done!!!! 

So, I'm not having any kids for awhile . . . trust me on that.

I'll just go play with other people's kids when I want to be around them!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 02, 2005, 12:38:54 PM
Eh children. I don't want any of my own until I'm in my thirties. The only children I have patience for are my nieces and I can always give them back when I'm tired. LOL.

smujd, your signature is interesting...so what do you say to people who don't accept failure as an option?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on May 02, 2005, 02:03:04 PM
hey has anybody dealt with the ABA scholarship and if so when did you hear??? i know the app says summertime but...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 02, 2005, 02:04:10 PM
The application says summertime. I haven't heard anything though. When I get the scholarship, I'll let you know.  ;)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on May 02, 2005, 02:16:46 PM
lol, you are funny muse, we'll see....
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 02, 2005, 02:25:28 PM
I speak the truth LOL. I believe therefore I shall receive LOL.   ;). You should hear by this summer though.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on May 02, 2005, 10:05:20 PM
hey has anybody dealt with the ABA scholarship and if so when did you hear??? i know the app says summertime but...

I've dealt with it.  I didn't get it, and I got my rejection in mid june last year.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on May 02, 2005, 10:07:35 PM
Eh children. I don't want any of my own until I'm in my thirties. The only children I have patience for are my nieces and I can always give them back when I'm tired. LOL.

smujd, your signature is interesting...so what do you say to people who don't accept failure as an option?

Everyone does fail at something.  Failure may be small, like getting a B when success would have been getting an A.  In life, everyone fails at something.  But you have to keep getting back up and getting out there if you really want to succeed in the grand scheme of things. 

I say anyone who claims that they have never failed at anything at all is fooling themselves. 
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 02, 2005, 10:09:37 PM
I'm foolish then b/c I don't consider myself having ever failed at anything. Set backs..... yes! But failure? Nah. That word isn't in my vocabulary.  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on May 02, 2005, 10:13:36 PM
So today was hump day . . . exam number three.  con law, contracts and property down.  torts and civ pro to go. . . .

Hope all the 1L's are holding up famously.

I am counting down the days . . . .I will be a free woman in less than a week!!!!  Well, at least for the summer.

So I took the night off . . . I'm exhausted.  So sue me.  :P  I will study for torts all day tomorrow and the morning before the exam.  So there. Besides, we all know how exhausted you are when you are done with a law school exam (well, at least the 1L's)  so you have to take some time to recover.  

My property exam was half multiple choice, half essay.  I don't know how I feel about that.  I'll let you know when I get the grade.  ;)

Everyone here who has had property, was your exam multiple choice or essay?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 02, 2005, 10:19:52 PM
Wait this is a good discussion... What is failure? Isn't failure giving up or not completing a task? Something to think about... ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on May 02, 2005, 10:37:48 PM
Courtesy of Merriam Websters Online:

1 a : omission of occurrence or performance; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action b : a state of inability to perform a normal function <kidney failure> -- compare HEART FAILURE c : a fracturing or giving way under stress <structural failure>
2 a : lack of success b : a failing in business : BANKRUPTCY
3 a : a falling short : DEFICIENCY <a crop failure> b : DETERIORATION, DECAY
4 : one that has failed

1a a failing to perform a duty or expected action --meaning that you didn't necessarily fail, you just didn't live up to your so called expectations . . .

3a--falling short--this is a better example, I think.  Falling short is not necessarily "outright" failure, but it is not performing as expected. This is why I say that if you claim you haven't failed at something, then you are fooling yourself.   No need to quibble about diction, though.  The dictionary definition covers all of the basis, from outright failure to the less critical failure to meet your expectations.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 02, 2005, 10:47:04 PM
I still don't think I've failed at anything. A set back and failure two  different things. Set backs in my eyes don't happen in the time I want them to but will come through eventually. A failure is equivalent to quitting, giving up, not trying...etc..
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: _BP_ on May 02, 2005, 11:24:35 PM
I still don't think I've failed at anything. A set back and failure two  different things. Set backs in my eyes don't happen in the time I want them to but will come through eventually. A failure is equivalent to quitting, giving up, not trying...etc..

You are a failure.  I started to count the ways but the post ended up being too long. I'll just print it out and mail it to you.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 02, 2005, 11:32:44 PM
 I'm looking forward to the email telling me how much of a loser I am LOL. ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: lex19 on May 03, 2005, 06:41:19 AM
thanks smujd for the ABA info, mid june is alot better than mid july and good luck with the rest of your exams
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on May 03, 2005, 08:29:35 AM
CIVIL PROCEDURE (the artist formerly known as Civ Pro) v. BURNING SANDS

People really ran out of time.  It was 12 questions, 3 hours (15 minutes per question) and you could have easily spent an hour on any one question.  But you didn't have an hour. You had 15 minutes.

Q1: Notice pleading v. code pleading and the infamous 12(b)(6) motion for failure to state a valid claim.  Childs play, but I fell into the trap. I spent about 45 minutes on this question before I looked up at the clock and started to panic with 11 questions left.  So I had him on the ropes but Civ Pro sucker punched me on the time.

Sands:0
CivPro:1

Q2: Motion for a more definite statement.  Hit him up with a quick concise paragraph and moved on.

Sands:1
CivPro:1

Q3 - Q5: I honestly can't remember what the hell they were about but I know I banged them out.

Sands:4
CivPro:1

But Oh Snap - after Q5 I look up and have 1 hour left!!! Civ Pro once again with the sucker punch.

Sands:4
CivPro:2

So Sands resorts to LSAT tacticts and flips to the last question and starts working backwords, figuring that the easiest question is probably all the way at the end where the professor knows nobody will get to it because they will run out of time...I was right!

Q12: Judgment as a Matter of Law.  Getthefukkoutahere with that ol' garbage.  I gave it a left jab, followed by a right hook and finished it off with a crescent kick to the dome.

Sands:5
CivPro:2

Q11-Q6 (working backwords) - No problem.  A couple of the questions were based off the same fact pattern so I sucker punched CivPro for my lost time.  (-1 for CivPro)  So when all said and done,

Sands - 11
CivPro - 1

Finished up and looked around...everybody was still writing...so I figured I must have missed a question...1,2,3,4...11,12.  No, didn't miss a question.  Looks like they're all here. Let me go back over my answers and make sure they make sense.  Yup they're in order...well sh!t, let's turn this mother in.

[white cats staring at Sands with the hate glance as they see the first person to hand in the exam is that Black guy from the back row]

[...people look at Sands, then look at the clock, and the hate turns into panic...people begin to write as fast as they can trying to throw 4 months of knowledge into the remaining 10 minutes]

2 Notes to the Pre-Laws here:
#1 - Spend as LITTLE time as possible in the school before the exam. In fact if you can time it right, come 5 minutes before the exam starts.  Nobody freaks out before exams like First Year Law Students and you don't want that mess rubbing off on you.
#2 - Spend as LITTLE time as possible in the school AFTER the exam.  Nobody freaks out after exams like First Year Law Students either.  A couple students actually got into an argument about what the right answer was...one girl came out of the exam room crying...one cat came out and drop kicked his Civ Pro book across the floor.  What's done is done.  As the phrase goes: no use crying over spilt milk.  Que sera sera and all that jazz.

1 down, 2 to go.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: MsJay9 on May 03, 2005, 08:42:21 AM
Good Job Sands....I hope your grade reflects how you feel about the exam right now!  :)
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on May 03, 2005, 08:55:01 AM
CIVIL PROCEDURE (the artist formerly known as Civ Pro) v. BURNING SANDS

People really ran out of time. It was 12 questions, 3 hours (15 minutes per question) and you could have easily spent an hour on any one question. But you didn't have an hour. You had 15 minutes.

Q1: Notice pleading v. code pleading and the infamous 12(b)(6) motion for failure to state a valid claim. Childs play, but I fell into the trap. I spent about 45 minutes on this question before I looked up at the clock and started to panic with 11 questions left. So I had him on the ropes but Civ Pro sucker punched me on the time.

Sands:0
CivPro:1

Q2: Motion for a more definite statement. Hit him up with a quick concise paragraph and moved on.

Sands:1
CivPro:1

Q3 - Q5: I honestly can't remember what the hell they were about but I know I banged them out.

Sands:4
CivPro:1

But Oh Snap - after Q5 I look up and have 1 hour left!!! Civ Pro once again with the sucker punch.

Sands:4
CivPro:2

So Sands resorts to LSAT tacticts and flips to the last question and starts working backwords, figuring that the easiest question is probably all the way at the end where the professor knows nobody will get to it because they will run out of time...I was right!

Q12: Judgment as a Matter of Law. Getthefukkoutahere with that ol' garbage. I gave it a left jab, followed by a right hook and finished it off with a crescent kick to the dome.

Sands:5
CivPro:2

Q11-Q6 (working backwords) - No problem. A couple of the questions were based off the same fact pattern so I sucker punched CivPro for my lost time. (-1 for CivPro) So when all said and done,

Sands - 11
CivPro - 1

Finished up and looked around...everybody was still writing...so I figured I must have missed a question...1,2,3,4...11,12. No, didn't miss a question. Looks like they're all here. Let me go back over my answers and make sure they make sense. Yup they're in order...well sh!t, let's turn this mother in.

[white cats staring at Sands with the hate glance as they see the first person to hand in the exam is that Black guy from the back row]

[...people look at Sands, then look at the clock, and the hate turns into panic...people begin to write as fast as they can trying to throw 4 months of knowledge into the remaining 10 minutes]

2 Notes to the Pre-Laws here:
#1 - Spend as LITTLE time as possible in the school before the exam. In fact if you can time it right, come 5 minutes before the exam starts. Nobody freaks out before exams like First Year Law Students and you don't want that mess rubbing off on you.
#2 - Spend as LITTLE time as possible in the school AFTER the exam. Nobody freaks out after exams like First Year Law Students either. A couple students actually got into an argument about what the right answer was...one girl came out of the exam room crying...one cat came out and drop kicked his Civ Pro book across the floor. What's done is done. As the phrase goes: no use crying over spilt milk. Que sera sera and all that jazz.

1 down, 2 to go.


The advice is on point about taking the exams.  There are people in my section that like to chit chat and compare notes about the issues and all kinds of crazy stuff before the exam and after the exam.  One girl came over to the group of me and my friends and was talking about how our professor said that he was going to throw out one multiple choice question, and trying to figure out which one he would throw out, and why some questions were duplicated. Girl, get over it!!!!  The exam questions weren't fair, answer them, and move on!!  I gave her one of my  "get the h---out of my face looks while she was talking, and she politely finished whatever nonsense she was babbling about and left.

I am soooooooo happy that the sections will mix in my upper level classes, so that I don't have to see some of these people everyday.

To all the 1L's . . . .we're almost there!!!!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on May 03, 2005, 09:34:42 AM
In honor of Sands . . . .

Dirt of the Shoulder is playing in my headphones . . . .

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on May 03, 2005, 10:05:50 AM
I have my FIRST exam at 1:30 -- CON LAW.  It's a closed book MC and Essay exam.  Wish me luck!!!  Things are only beginning for me. 

Question for the 1Ls...how many practice exams do you guys take?  I typically do 3-4 essay questions the day before the exam.  Well last night I did a few exams with a group and we all read each other's responses.  Needless to say, one guy's response was disorganized, misstated and/or misapplied the rule, and was just bad.  After reading our responses (at 11 pm) he freaked out and realized that he had a ton of work to do.

Moral of the story -- you can memorize your outline and recite ish all day long, but it doesn't mean anything unless you can WRITE THE EXAM!

Good luck all!!!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: blk_reign on May 03, 2005, 10:09:09 AM
Good Luck all
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: smujd2007 on May 03, 2005, 10:12:33 AM
I don't do a lot of practice exams. . . .I did last semester, and it didn't help much.  I think it has its beneefits, depending on how early in the semester you start doing it, but I go through the material with my how can this stuff show up on the exam question.  I make a list of all the possible issues that I see.  That way I'm looking at the material, and reviewing it, but I am also thinking about potential questions and how to answer them. 

I think I did too many practice exams last semester and got tunnel vision, thinking that the teacher would only ask a question in this way. Going through my outline and issue spotting I think has been more helpful for me this semester.

Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on May 03, 2005, 12:49:16 PM
Practice exams are generally a good idea, and I would suggest to do them early.  As in, 2-3 weeks before the exam.  I would hate to do it for the first time the night before like your boy there, Whit, to prevent exactly what happened.  I wanna know how messed up I am a few weeks before the exam so I can get my sh!t together.

Speakin of exams let me jump off of here...

1L's - it's SHOWTIME!!!  Get in there and handle your f*ckin business!
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 03, 2005, 12:54:03 PM
You guys are on crack.
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Statistic on May 03, 2005, 12:54:44 PM
1L's - it's SHOWTIME!!!  Get in there and handle your f*ckin business!

*Hands sands shoe polish and red lipstick*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 03, 2005, 12:57:08 PM
1L's - it's SHOWTIME!!!  Get in there and handle your f*ckin business!

*Hands sands shoe polish and red lipstick*
ROFLMAO...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on May 03, 2005, 01:08:37 PM
1L's - it's SHOWTIME!!!  Get in there and handle your f*ckin business!

*Hands sands shoe polish and red lipstick*
ROFLMAO...


LOL

No thanks RBG, you're gonna need it more than me when you have to start tap dancing this fall
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 03, 2005, 01:24:07 PM
Wow Sands has jokes

::Eats popcorn::

whatchu gonna do RBG? :o
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 03, 2005, 11:45:35 PM
Okay what do you guys think of this Contract?

Sexual Consent Form and Right of Privacy Agreement

I, _____________, herby declare under penality of perjury that I am over 18 years old.

I futher declare that this agreement is of my own free will and that neither I nor anyone near or dear to me has been threateneed with harm or embarassment.

Both parties agree that this is a private agreement not to be disclosed to third parties except in cases of accusation of sexual misconduct by (name) _________________ of (state) _______________. If he/she shows or makes public this agreement without accusation of sexual misconduct, it is agreed that he/she will  be will be liable for damages for invasion of privacy, whether or not his/her signature appear herein.


By intiating ________________, agrees to engage in all or some of the following consensual acts. Check the boxes below and initial the following.

Sexual fondling, petting, and kissing ____
Sexual intercourse__
Oral copulation (mutual)_____
Unilateral copulation by __________ only

Other, to be specified: ____________________________

I further declare that I am at this time not under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or medication and agree to engage in consentual sex with______________________ and intend not to change my mind before the sex act is over.  However, it is further understood that if I, for any reason say the words "Code Red," that my partner agrees to stop instantly.

Signed: _______ Signed:___________
Date:           Date:



(LOL what do you guys think?) ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Made4law on May 03, 2005, 11:55:19 PM
Okay what do you guys think of this Contract?

Sexual Consent Form and Right of Privacy Agreement

I, _____________, herby declare under penality of perjury that I am over 18 years old.

I futher declare that this agreement is of my own free will and that neither I nor anyone near or dear to me has been threateneed with harm or embarassment.

Both parties agree that this is a private agreement not to be disclosed to third parties except in cases of accusation of sexual misconduct by (name) _________________ of (state) _______________. If he/she shows or makes public this agreement without accusation of sexual misconduct, it is agreed that he/she will  be will be liable for damages for invasion of privacy, whether or not his/her signature appear herein.


By intiating ________________, agrees to engage in all or some of the following consensual acts. Check the boxes below and initial the following.

Sexual fondling, petting, and kissing ____
Sexual intercourse__
Oral copulation (mutual)_____
Unilateral copulation by __________ only

Other, to be specified: ____________________________

I further declare that I am at this time not under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or medication and agree to engage in consentual sex with______________________ and intend not to change my mind before the sex act is over.  However, it is further understood that if I, for any reason say the words "Code Red," that my partner agrees to stop instantly.

Signed: _______ Signed:___________
Date:           Date:



(LOL what do you guys think?) ;D

This belongs in the WTF? section because when I read it I said WTF?  Quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen, "...not under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or medication..." First off that's what you'd have to be to sign something like this, What if you agree to oral and the cooch or jewels are a little tart then what, "Code Red"...Somebody can get hurt...Only a scared nerd or R.Kelly would entertain something like this...
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 03, 2005, 11:59:25 PM
LOL. They passed out this consent form at the Tantric Sex Lab at my school. I thought it was funny.  ;D
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Made4law on May 04, 2005, 12:01:20 AM
LOL. They passed out this consent form at the Tantric Sex Lab at my school. I thought it was funny.  ;D

Whoa, Tantric Sex Lab what school do you attend and what is your Major?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on May 04, 2005, 12:19:21 AM
LOL. They passed out this consent form at the Tantric Sex Lab at my school. I thought it was funny.  ;D

Whoa, Tantric Sex Lab what school do you attend and what is your Major?


LOL!!!!

Made, good to see you in the house.  How you makin it over there?
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Muse on May 04, 2005, 12:54:04 AM
A fraternity on my campus sponsored the event. The auditorium was packed with like 200+ students.

I learned so much   :P :-*
Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: Bubbazzz on May 04, 2005, 01:02:24 AM
yo yo - sorry to totally change the subject, but i am in need of some major help.

Ok, so i got my property outline going. the thing is nice, i have everything in it. The problem is I need some sample questions. I know, the library has old prof's exams on reserve - but they dont have the answers, and my prof has refused to critique if we attempt to try to answer. So, any ideas of any books that give problems with answers? Specifically on Land Transactions, Title Assurance, Servitudes, Zoning, Eminent Doman/Takings, Landlord-Tenant.

ANYTHING?!?!?!? its getting down to the wire.

Title: Re: 1L's
Post by: 1lwhit on May 04, 2005, 01:57:34 AM
yo yo - sorry to totally change the subject, but i am in need of some major help.

Ok, so i got my property outline going. the thing is nice, i have everything in it. The problem is I need some sample questions. I know, the library has old prof's exams on reserve - but they dont have the answers, and my prof has refused to critique if we attempt to try to answer. So, any ideas of any books that give problems with answers? Specifically on Land Transactions, Title Assurance, Servitudes, Zoning, Eminent Doman/Takings, Landlord-Tenant.

ANYTHING?!?!?!? its getting down to the wire.



Google --> property and model answer

or something like that...  Also, try looking in the back of Gilbert's