Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students => Topic started by: AuburnChick on February 06, 2005, 06:13:19 PM

Title: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: AuburnChick on February 06, 2005, 06:13:19 PM
This topic is not supposed to be heated or emotional! I just have some basic questions that I would like answered.  Call me dumb about the topic, but don't call me mean!  ;D

AFF AXN Definition:
A policy or a program that seeks to redress past discrimination through active measures to ensure equal opportunity, as in education and employment.

1) If I was rejected from an Ivy for undergrad even though I have the same scores as an URM that was accepted to the same Ivy, and I now attend an average public undergrad..then isnt that a form of discrimination...and shouldnt I be given an advantage ("to redress past discrimination") over that URM when I apply to Graduate programs?

2) Must each individual that recieves affirmative action prove a specific example of when someone previously discriminated against them?

3) Does attending the same University not provide an equal opportunity? How can affirmative action persist past undergrad (i totally understand this effort to provide people from different socioeconomic backgrounds the same opportunity)? And if it does, then shouldn't it only exist to even the playing field between Harvard Graduates and Random Community College graduates?

Again, nothing hateful...only clarification please :)!
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: CaliToD.C. on February 06, 2005, 07:41:18 PM
1) No you were not discriminated against because even though you may have had higher scores the admins saw something more valuable and unique in that URM candidate which is DIVERSITY.

2)No they must not. It is common knowledge of the historic institutional raciscm inflicted on specific minority groups in this country.

3)Even if two students attens the same undergrad the URM is still at a far disadvantage compared to their white counterpart. White people have been able to benefit from a system that is desinged to ensure their success in all forms. The culture of education and the quality of education that a white student recieves throughout their lives places them at an extreme atvantage when they do reach undergrad.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: dr_draino on February 06, 2005, 07:45:02 PM
A very simple trivial example of how two people of different races don't get the same out of the same educational system:

The book I use for my "chemistry for poets" class goes into an explanation about protein folding by using the chemistry involved in getting a hair perm as an example.  The book assumes that everyone will simply believe that this means the chemistry involved with making ones hair curly.  Sitting in front of a class that was half white/half black to discuss this portion of the text really hit home how something this simple can put a black student at a disadvantage.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: CaliToD.C. on February 06, 2005, 07:49:43 PM
A very simple trivial example of how two people of different races don't get the same out of the same educational system:

The book I use for my "chemistry for poets" class goes into an explanation about protein folding by using the chemistry involved in getting a hair perm as an example.  The book assumes that everyone will simply believe that this means the chemistry involved with making ones hair curly.  Sitting in front of a class that was half white/half black to discuss this portion of the text really hit home how something this simple can put a black student at a disadvantage.

Thats a perfect example of how the SAT is culturally biased.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: whiteytighty on February 06, 2005, 09:09:57 PM
This topic is not supposed to be heated or emotional! I just have some basic questions that I would like answered.  Call me dumb about the topic, but don't call me mean!  ;D

AFF AXN Definition:
A policy or a program that seeks to redress past discrimination through active measures to ensure equal opportunity, as in education and employment.

1) If I was rejected from an Ivy for undergrad even though I have the same scores as an URM that was accepted to the same Ivy, and I now attend an average public undergrad..then isnt that a form of discrimination...and shouldnt I be given an advantage ("to redress past discrimination") over that URM when I apply to Graduate programs?

2) Must each individual that recieves affirmative action prove a specific example of when someone previously discriminated against them?

3) Does attending the same University not provide an equal opportunity? How can affirmative action persist past undergrad (i totally understand this effort to provide people from different socioeconomic backgrounds the same opportunity)? And if it does, then shouldn't it only exist to even the playing field between Harvard Graduates and Random Community College graduates?

Again, nothing hateful...only clarification please :)!


You need to understand the difference between two supposed justifications for race preferences:

1) remedy past discrimination.  Back in the 1960's, when segregation was recent, race preferences were justified by saying, blacks were disenfranchised, etc., so they need a leg up.  This rationale obviously loses its force by the nineties, when decades after segregation was made illegal, there are no more college applicants (of the usual age) that have themselves endured government-sponsored inequality.  Obviously, the vestiges of all that went before continue to have their effect in terms of economic and social conditions, but the old-George-Wallace-barring-the-classroom-door days are long gone.

2) but when that rationale started to lose its force, proponents of race preferences took to heart the concept adopted by US Supreme Court Justice Powell (alone among his brethren) in the 1978 Bakke case, that race preferences could be justified by the concept of diversity, all by itself; you didn't need to show that an individual had him- or herself suffered from discrimination; diversity meant that the unique contribution that someone with a different background makes to an institution is enough.  In other words, even if (hypothetically) there were no discrimination against minorities still existent, you still wouldn't want to have nothing but nordic types in a truly vibrant campus, you need all sorts of people so that true understanding and sharing of ideas takes place.

And that remains the prevailing rationale for race preferences in the US today.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: AuburnChick on February 06, 2005, 09:26:43 PM
A very simple trivial example of how two people of different races don't get the same out of the same educational system:

Sitting in front of a class that was half white/half black to discuss this portion of the text really hit home how something this simple can put a black student at a disadvantage.

Thank you everyone for your answers to my questions!  That is really interesting Draino.  You say that this puts black students at a disadvantage..how so? What causes 2 people from 2 different races not to get the same out of the same educational system, and is this point (the fact that they dont get the same out of it) the example of discrimination that institutions use to promote affirmative action? Can discrimination be passive like this (or would you consider this to be active? if so who is responsible for it?) and if the fact that 2 people dont get the same out of the exposure is not the example of discrimination that is used for affirmative action, then what form of discrimination is used for affirmative action? If its just about 2 people not getting the same out of the exact same exposure, then what does race have to do with it? it would seem to me that if nonURM A and nonURM B performed differently in a class, then could as justly be called discrimination as if URM A and nonURM B performed differently in a class.  

My main point of confusion is what it is about race that you say lends different results with equal exposure.  I assume that you would say past discrimination...but im just looking for some specifics here...  :D

Seu2002--that is a really impressive story.  I have a lot of respect for people that survive difficult situations like the ones you describe.  I think that your story would show any admissions your character and determination, and those things should be recognised as AWESOME potential for an aspiring lawyer.  I still don't understand why this means that we should generalize an entire group of people and assume that they have had a discouraging homelife or past though.  

P-Rich--i dont understand why diversity can only exist in terms of race/class/gender (whatever people use for aff axn...im not really sure to tell you the truth!)..just because a person is of a particular R/C/G  that doesnt exactly change the atmosphere of a classroom anymore than if you added someone with a unique story to tell, or interesting experiences.  (and im a little saddened that you automatically assume that I'm not interesting enough to add this diversity to an Ivy!) Now you say its common knowledge of institutional racism so that means that people must not prove specific encounters with discrimination.  All I ask though, is if I can prove specific encounters with discrimination, then why can't I recieve the same benefits...i just don't understand why vague beats out specific here.  (and again this is all for the purpose of educating silly me, so dont think im being mean/rude whatever!) I just dont understand how the use of race to assume peoples specific backgrounds can be a good idea here...an URM could have had family here for generations and a nonURM could be first generation here...and yet the URM is still considered to be culturally disadvantaged in the school system. And again, Im gonna ask for some more specifics...how exactly is the school tailored for white success (is it math or science or PE?)and how are cultures so different that people of other races might not perform as well in the system?

 :)
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: AuburnChick on February 06, 2005, 09:30:21 PM


Quote

2) but when that rationale started to lose its force, proponents of race preferences took to heart the concept adopted by US Supreme Court Justice Powell (alone among his brethren) in the 1978 Bakke case, that race preferences could be justified by the concept of diversity, all by itself; you didn't need to show that an individual had him- or herself suffered from discrimination; diversity meant that the unique contribution that someone with a different background makes to an institution is enough.  In other words, even if (hypothetically) there were no discrimination against minorities still existent, you still wouldn't want to have nothing but nordic types in a truly vibrant campus, you need all sorts of people so that true understanding and sharing of ideas takes place.

And that remains the prevailing rationale for race preferences in the US today.
Quote

Thank you! you have shed light on one of my biggest points of confusion! So maybe you can help me with one more clarification...how does a difference in race yield a bigger abundance of differing ideas than a difference in personality, or a difference in favorite authors or interests?
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: dr_draino on February 06, 2005, 09:35:33 PM
It's discrimination because if I'm reading this textbook and see "okay, this is explaining what happens when I get a perm" and it then goes on to explain a process by which intermolecular forces are increased and never mentions that the goal of the perm is to ADD kink/curl to ones hair rather than REMOVE this feature, then as a black student I very well might assume that "oh, so increasing intramolecular forces within a protein molecule will cause it to straighten out".  MAYBE the black person is astute enough to realize "okay, this was obviously written by a white person, so this must mean that increased intramolecular forces will cause a protein to fold up".  The average white person wouldn't even have to go through this thought process and would just assume that the goal was to add kink/curl to the hair...hell, I'd bet half the white people on this board don't even know that black people have to get a perm to remove the curl from their hair!!  You can see how in this instance, if I wasn't aware of the confusion this could cause as the instructor who happened to read that portion of the text closely, a black student could be led to answer a test question incorrectly because the text meant something completely different to them compared to a white person reading the same text even though they were both using the same reasoning skills.

As far as who is at fault, the publisher of the book is at fault:  they have published a book that is aimed at college students, a large portion of which are non-white, and they have written the text so as to be ambiguous to anyone that doesn't fit into that mold.

Again, this is a minor instance that stuck out to me as a very very white guy...I'm sure there are many other examples.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: AuburnChick on February 06, 2005, 09:45:40 PM
Thank you draino  ;D! I see what you are getting at, but I dont see how race is at all the issue here.  I think that any difference in anybodys experience would cause varying interpretation of almost any text! I just dont get how race is a factor!
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: dr_draino on February 06, 2005, 09:49:03 PM
I'm sure you would agree that adding a german person to a class with a similar personality as another american student in that same class would add more diversity to the class than simply adding another american kid with a different personality than all of the other american kids in the class would bring.  You would probably agree that this is because the german kid comes in not just with his personality, but with his difference in culture.  Seeing how little the white people on this board actually know about the lives of black people, it shouldn't be too hard to stretch this to saying that, on average, a black person grows up with a distinctly different culture than a white kid, and is therefore likely to add more diversity to the class based on that fact, similar to the diversity a german student would add because of his different culture.

Considering that the AA threads and the BLSD board are the two topics that insight the most conversation and certainly the most passionate conversation on this board, it shouldn't be hard to see how adding people of different races to a class adds significantly more to the diversity than simply another white kid with a different personality.

Also, consider:  accepting someone with a high LSAT does not ENSURE that they will be a succesful law student.  It is a strong indicator and an admissions committee member will know from past experience what the likleyhood of a 173 candidate who mearly has a 2.7 gpa will have in succeeding in their program.  In the same way, being black doesn'tENSURE that a person is going to add diversity to the program, but it is a VERY STRONG indicator.  Hope that makes sense.



Quote

2) but when that rationale started to lose its force, proponents of race preferences took to heart the concept adopted by US Supreme Court Justice Powell (alone among his brethren) in the 1978 Bakke case, that race preferences could be justified by the concept of diversity, all by itself; you didn't need to show that an individual had him- or herself suffered from discrimination; diversity meant that the unique contribution that someone with a different background makes to an institution is enough.  In other words, even if (hypothetically) there were no discrimination against minorities still existent, you still wouldn't want to have nothing but nordic types in a truly vibrant campus, you need all sorts of people so that true understanding and sharing of ideas takes place.

And that remains the prevailing rationale for race preferences in the US today.
Quote

Thank you! you have shed light on one of my biggest points of confusion! So maybe you can help me with one more clarification...how does a difference in race yield a bigger abundance of differing ideas than a difference in personality, or a difference in favorite authors or interests?
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: dr_draino on February 06, 2005, 09:53:08 PM
You are correct in this assesment.  Simply being black doesn't affect the person's ability to interpert the text...it is in fact the person's experience that limits his/her ability to interperet the text because the text, like most things in our society is geared towards the average white student.  It's this type of hidden discrimination that people of color experience on a daily basis that I believe AA aims to get around, NOT the name-calling, police-brutality, sitting-at-the-back-of-the-bus type discrimination that people seem to think it's meant to address.

The fact is that with this type of hidden, institutional (and unintentional) bias towards white students, a black person that acheives a 3.1 gpa very well could have been using every bit as much mental capacity and horse-power as a white student that acheived a 3.3 gpa. 

Thank you draino  ;D! I see what you are getting at, but I dont see how race is at all the issue here.  I think that any difference in anybodys experience would cause varying interpretation of almost any text! I just dont get how race is a factor!
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: AuburnChick on February 06, 2005, 09:54:43 PM
well yeah! the german person might speak a foreign language, has studied a different set of standardized curriculum, eats different foods, drives on a different side of the street.... i mean german person comes from a really different background.  But even in our system, the german person would not benefit from affirmative action...an URM who lives in america, eats mcdonalds like the rest of us, speaks english, and drives on the Right side of the road would benefit from the system and would somehow diversify the class better! So the german wins there..  But how are 2 people who's only difference is race really that culturally different if we all grew up here on mcdonalds?
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: AuburnChick on February 06, 2005, 09:59:01 PM
You are correct in this assesment.  Simply being black doesn't affect the person's ability to interpert the text...it is in fact the person's experience that limits his/her ability to interperet the text because the text, like most things in our society is geared towards the average white student.  It's this type of hidden discrimination that people of color experience on a daily basis that I believe AA aims to get around, NOT the name-calling, police-brutality, sitting-at-the-back-of-the-bus type discrimination that people seem to think it's meant to address.

The fact is that with this type of hidden, institutional (and unintentional) bias towards white students, a black person that acheives a 3.1 gpa very well could have been using every bit as much mental capacity and horse-power as a white student that acheived a 3.3 gpa. 



Draino...thank you for your patience! I finally realize why I don't get it...I can't see the invisable elephant in the corner of the room...but if you say its there I'll believe you.  I won't start another sentance with "i dont get it..." but im sure you know what im thinking.  ;D thank you anyways for everything!
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: acccr4p on February 06, 2005, 10:01:28 PM
I would say that no system is perfect and there really isn't a point justifying the chinks in the chain. To iron them out would take time and effort that not many people would care to give.

URMs are generalised, probably overly as well. I believe should you put a white person next to an urm, they would be judged equally (in the perfect world) unless it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that the URM had gone through more difficulties than the white person or vice-versa. The foundation on which URM was established was the recognition of unequal standing within society by people. Although a great deal of this has been resolved, it can be expected that URMs would raise hell if they weren't given the place should their educational/life bground be exactly the same as the white person's. They have a lot going for them "to redress past discrimination".

However, I would like to add that most URMs who apply to T14s do get in on their own merit. It is usually URMs who can only apply to TTT thrash that do raise the above argument saying that "white boy always treat me, my gramps, my gr8 gramps.... like dirt".

Be humble and be satisfied that you made it into LS. You reap what you sow, so there isn't a need to compare nor to examine why that URM made it in but you didn't because that would be plain offensive and absolutely indicative (every finger you point at someone, four are pointed back at you) - EVERYONE IS EQUAL - It's an opportunity that not many people recieve so remember to give back to society.

Your Asian Friend,
acccr4p

PS: I know some of the terms and phrases used are really crude but I didn't see the point to beat about the bush. It's just my honest opinion with no offense or hurt intended. Everyone is entitled to their own view so please respect theirs and they will respect yours.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: dr_draino on February 06, 2005, 10:05:28 PM
I'll ask you this and then stop:

1)  When you talk to a black person, does your voice pattern change?  Mine does.

2)  Do you think of specific foods and associate them with black people or latinos?  I do.

3)  Do you think a black church as being something unique...a way of worshipping a christian god but in a fundamentally unique way?  I do.  And I've never set foot in a "black church".

Just some things to ponder.  While we live in the same country and I see images of black-american's all the time, I freely admit that their culture is distinctly different from mine.  Not so different that we don't have common ground, but different enough that I find I've learned an awful lot more from black people I've worked with that ave had a similar personality to mine compared to white people that I've worked with that had different personalities.

well yeah! the german person might speak a foreign language, has studied a different set of standardized curriculum, eats different foods, drives on a different side of the street.... i mean german person comes from a really different background.  But even in our system, the german person would not benefit from affirmative action...an URM who lives in america, eats mcdonalds like the rest of us, speaks english, and drives on the Right side of the road would benefit from the system and would somehow diversify the class better! So the german wins there..  But how are 2 people who's only difference is race really that culturally different if we all grew up here on mcdonalds?
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: acccr4p on February 06, 2005, 10:10:36 PM
Sorry, I would just like to add that diversity is key because if people can get along with their differences, peace can be built on this unwavering ground. The lack of diversity in the past have often led to social unjust and subsequently, unrest. Diversity is crucial because in order to progress as people of one species, we must learn to accept differences and changes. Universities with a multi-cultural alumni and student body usually stand the test of time much stronger and better than OCU (One colour university).

Notice how society progresses.. From single sex to co-ed and not multi-cultural. The world is slowly becoming a better place .. we could add a catalyst by getting rid of a few assholes first.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: TheZooker on February 07, 2005, 05:01:24 AM
I would say that no system is perfect and there really isn't a point justifying the chinks in the chain. To iron them out would take time and effort that not many people would care to give.

URMs are generalised, probably overly as well. I believe should you put a white person next to an urm, they would be judged equally (in the perfect world) unless it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that the URM had gone through more difficulties than the white person or vice-versa. The foundation on which URM was established was the recognition of unequal standing within society by people. Although a great deal of this has been resolved, it can be expected that URMs would raise hell if they weren't given the place should their educational/life bground be exactly the same as the white person's. They have a lot going for them "to redress past discrimination".

However, I would like to add that most URMs who apply to T14s do get in on their own merit. It is usually URMs who can only apply to third tier toilet thrash that do raise the above argument saying that "white boy always treat me, my gramps, my gr8 gramps.... like dirt".

Be humble and be satisfied that you made it into LS. You reap what you sow, so there isn't a need to compare nor to examine why that URM made it in but you didn't because that would be plain offensive and absolutely indicative (every finger you point at someone, four are pointed back at you) - EVERYONE IS EQUAL - It's an opportunity that not many people recieve so remember to give back to society.

Your Asian Friend,
acccr4p

PS: I know some of the terms and phrases used are really crude but I didn't see the point to beat about the bush. It's just my honest opinion with no offense or hurt intended. Everyone is entitled to their own view so please respect theirs and they will respect yours.

It is blatantly untrue to state that 'most URM's at T-14's get in on their own merit'.  You lose credibility when you say something like that.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: maka nani on February 07, 2005, 05:54:36 AM
i'm saddened when I see "white people have excellent schools and money for SAT prep". I went to a terrible high school and my parents have/had absolutely no money for any sort of prep. I ended up at our (TTT) State U even though I graduated in the top 5% of my HS...and I've worked full time throughout UG.  I guess I put myself at an advantage by working?   ???

...I just had to say that...I know it is pretty irrelevant....bye!

Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: Dr. No on February 07, 2005, 05:59:03 AM
Draino,

I have a similar story from teaching.  I was running a microbiology lab in which we were using a particular kind of media on which bacteria could grow.  It was a peach/pink/white color.  The class was 1/2 white and 1/2 black (roughly).  A black girl came up and asked which media she should use and i told her to use 'the flesh colored' media.  she looked at me funny and i eventually had to point it out to her.  she laughed and looked at me and said 'not all people's flesh is this color'.  

it's amazing how you can be around people of different races and not even realize the differences when you teach/interact.

NOTE: i'm rereading my story...it was a lot funnier in person.  sorry for the nerd/science humor.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: maka nani on February 07, 2005, 06:04:20 AM
oooo that is pretty funny/oops.  At least she laughed!

 :D
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: TheZooker on February 07, 2005, 06:07:39 AM
Good response P-Rich.

I grew up along the US-Mexico border.  I was at an economic disadvantage bc my mother was a housewife and my father is an immigrant who could only go up to the 5th grade in Mexico before having to drop out to help support his family.  By virtue of the very poor economy in my hometown, I was also at an educational disadvantage.

My only escape was the library.  I spent my time devouring literature and working hard at my schoolwork, not because I saw it as my ticket out of poverty, but because it was the only way I could forget about how poor my family was.

Anyway, I never took an SAT practice test, nor did I study for it, but the SAT I and II were a piece of cake for me.  I was disappointed with my scores, though, 1330 and 1370, respectively, because I had run out of time during the tests, therefore accounting for these poor (to me, anyway) scores. 

I'm not saying that non URMs don't deserve the same scholarships or acceptances to the schools I get into, but you tell me who impressed the admissions committee more:  URMs with stories such as mine or our non-URM counterparts who had excellent school curriculums and the money to pay for an SAT prep course?

I'm not ashamed or embarassed of my past.  I don't expect pity or an easier ride because of it, but I do appreciate people who appreciate my struggle and who see the potential in my learning given the proper resources.

My story repeats iteself and is applicable to my law school application process as well.

I whole-heartedly agree that poverty puts one at a disadvantage.  Your story is very convincing from a low-SES based standpoint.  You then make the leap of comparing poor URM's to wealthy non-URM's.  You have to realize how this is not a fair comparison.  This white boy grew up in a trailer park.  Please do not assume that all non-URM's went to top private schools and had extensive SAT prep courses.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: maka nani on February 07, 2005, 06:11:00 AM
Good response P-Rich.

I grew up along the US-Mexico border.  I was at an economic disadvantage bc my mother was a housewife and my father is an immigrant who could only go up to the 5th grade in Mexico before having to drop out to help support his family.  By virtue of the very poor economy in my hometown, I was also at an educational disadvantage.

My only escape was the library.  I spent my time devouring literature and working hard at my schoolwork, not because I saw it as my ticket out of poverty, but because it was the only way I could forget about how poor my family was.

Anyway, I never took an SAT practice test, nor did I study for it, but the SAT I and II were a piece of cake for me.  I was disappointed with my scores, though, 1330 and 1370, respectively, because I had run out of time during the tests, therefore accounting for these poor (to me, anyway) scores. 

I'm not saying that non URMs don't deserve the same scholarships or acceptances to the schools I get into, but you tell me who impressed the admissions committee more:  URMs with stories such as mine or our non-URM counterparts who had excellent school curriculums and the money to pay for an SAT prep course?

I'm not ashamed or embarassed of my past.  I don't expect pity or an easier ride because of it, but I do appreciate people who appreciate my struggle and who see the potential in my learning given the proper resources.

My story repeats iteself and is applicable to my law school application process as well.

I whole-heartedly agree that poverty puts one at a disadvantage.  Your story is very convincing from a low-SES based standpoint.  You then make the leap of comparing poor URM's to wealthy non-URM's.  You have to realize how this is not a fair comparison.  This white boy

same here...well this girl grew up with little financial resources...just a wonderful family...our parents lost the house and we moved from rental house to rental house.  No SAT prep or top schools for me. 
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: TheZooker on February 07, 2005, 06:20:19 AM
Yeah, I'm in the process of writing my PS now, and my upbringing is going to be a major theme.  I think it's great so far, but who doesn't think their PS is great??
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: maka nani on February 07, 2005, 06:44:55 AM
me!  i'm really struggling with mine
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: TheZooker on February 07, 2005, 07:15:03 AM
Ha, well I guess I stand corrected.  I had been thinking about how I was going to structure mine for quite some time, then I finally just sat down and wrote it.  Now I am going through the various stages of editing, which will continue in the standard obsessive/compulsive manner until September.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: maka nani on February 07, 2005, 07:30:33 AM
me too...well one day a few weeks ago I just started typing....and I have something that is three pages.  Will continue to edit like crazy...then not look at it for a few weeks...then edit again...and so on :)
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: AuburnChick on February 07, 2005, 09:57:01 PM
Yeah, I'm in the process of writing my PS now, and my upbringing is going to be a major theme.  I think it's great so far, but who doesn't think their PS is great??

i think thats a good idea-i discussed what a diffucult homelife I had in my personal statement, and I think it shows endurance and ability to shine even in terrible circumstances.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: AuburnChick on February 07, 2005, 09:57:56 PM
difficult ^  :o
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: shiveringjenny on February 07, 2005, 10:03:54 PM
i don't think i'm gonna write any kind of 'obstacles overcome' essays. my homelife was so difficult that there's no reasonable way to write about it.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: ElizaB on February 12, 2005, 05:15:55 PM
A very simple trivial example of how two people of different races don't get the same out of the same educational system:

The book I use for my "chemistry for poets" class goes into an explanation about protein folding by using the chemistry involved in getting a hair perm as an example.  The book assumes that everyone will simply believe that this means the chemistry involved with making ones hair curly.  Sitting in front of a class that was half white/half black to discuss this portion of the text really hit home how something this simple can put a black student at a disadvantage.

Thats a perfect example of how the SAT is culturally biased.

The SAT questions aren't just culturally biased...they are regionally biased as well.  I had a psychology prof who read my class a real SAT analogy about a skull and then asked the class if we knew what a skull (and not your head) was.  Out a class of about 40, not one single person  (including myself) knew what a skull (heck, I don't even know how to spell it) was.  He informed us that it was a type of boat that was used in crew races in the northeast...but how were we supposed to know that?  We don't "row" or have "crew" in South Texas...at least not that I am aware of!  I don't even know where people would row at down her...on the Rio Grande River?   
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: ElizaB on February 13, 2005, 06:06:55 AM
Where are you from?  I spent my early childhood years (until about 5th grade) in Laredo.
Title: Re: AFF AXN questions for the uninformed
Post by: maka nani on February 13, 2005, 07:36:52 PM
I spent my first 22 years in New England and had no clue what that was...