Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: WOMBAT on January 16, 2005, 10:21:21 AM

Title: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 16, 2005, 10:21:21 AM
Here is a thread for all of the questions and concerns for those of us who have LSAT scores below 150.

Here are my vitals:
LSAT, Dec 04, 148
UGPA 3.44
4.5 Years Work Experience
Decided to apply to law school as a result of life experiences


Here are all of the schools to which I have applied

Buffalo                   
Capital                     
Case Western
Creighton                  
Stetson                     
Tulsa         
Valparaiso      
Widener                  
Willamette                  
Wisconsin      


I am very anxious to hear from a few of these places. I attended UB undergrad so I would be comfortable going to law school there. My father went to Capital back in the 60's so there would be some family pride if I attended Capital.
I can hear Drew's voice right now "Ohio, Ohio Ohio!"

I guess I am curious about a few things:

Obviously with a score like mine you can't apply to Harvard, unless you are Mother Teresa and came back to life. I applied to Wisconsin and Buffalo because I honestly didn't feel like those were stretches. So how did you decide what is and isn't a stretch? Some schools really do value work experience.

I am below the 25% at most schools. But - it's like running from a bear - I don't feel the need to be the best, just not last.

I have friends going through law school at U.Chicago, Columbia, & Boston. They all tell me that I shouldn't go to law school because I won't get a job. I dunno, call me a dreamer, but I still believe that being a nice guy and being able to relate to just about anybody can carry you a long way. I have no "Big Law" plans, and, in fact, didn't have any before I received my LSAT score. I really don't care about money. Ok, I have to stop here or I will go on forever. I'd love to hear from all y'all.

W-W-WOMBAT!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on January 16, 2005, 10:45:49 AM
I also have a low LSAT score. I took it three times, the first time on a whim, I scored a 149 (2002), I took it again in 2002 and scored a 145. I put off law school to get my masters and get a full time job, to see if law school was something I still wanted to pursue. I decided that it was. I studied hard and took it again in June and got a 150. I was disappointed, but it is just not my kind of test. My average is a 148. My UPGA is a 3.39.

I have been working full time since graduation(2 years ago), I was a marketing manager…I just started a new job as a program director at the YWCA. My masters GPA is a 4.0, I will graduate in May. I am currently working on a book chapter on electronic tribalism to go in a book about online communication. I will not go into all the other odds and ends that I have, you can check it out by looking at the link below from law school numbers.

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?cycle=0405&user=shadowcreeperz

I applied to part time programs for the most part. Most of the places I applied I have under 25% chance as well. Hopefully my other stuff will help me get into a good school.

Good luck, and do not let your friends get you down. You might not get the Biglaw job, like they will get, but you will get a job. You just have to work harder to get it.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: gentoo on January 16, 2005, 01:50:52 PM
Yeah, I got a 146 on December's test. :( Unlike you guys, I don't have much work experience except for some managerial PT experience in college and some internships. I am re-taking in February, and hoping for the best. I plan on staying right where I am, so really the only schools I can apply to are Whittier, USD, and Cal Western because they take the higher score (I highly doubt I'm going to score in the 160's on the test) and my only desired school out of those three are Whittier because driving down to San Diego from where I am could take 1 1/2 to 2 hours one way. So if I get into Whittier, I'll be thrilled beyond belief. Besides, my real desire is to work as a DA, my boyfriend's dad is one for LA County and he said it really doesn't matter where you go, as long as you do well. Especially since in a few years the baby boomers are going to be retiring, gov't jobs will be available to virtually anyone who passes the bar. And I realy have no desire for private practice or biglaw anyways. Despite what everyone says, if you go to a regional school, you will get a job...maybe not biglaw, but you will work somewhere. Well, that's my rant, good luck to everyone. :)

p.s. My boyfriend's dad who is the DA said most of his law school classmates who went into biglaw have either already had a heart attack or are died before their 55th birthday. Kinda puts things into perspective.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on January 16, 2005, 02:05:14 PM
I scored about 5 to 7 points lower on my actual LSAT also. Since I made the mistake of taking it twice in 2002 without preparing, I really do not want to take it again. I studied my ass off the last time, I took the Princeton Review, and I lived the LSAT. I actually thought I was going to be able to score what I was getting on practice tests(155 to 158) but it just did not happen. Unfortunately I just do not test well. I am hoping that I applied to enough schools and I have enough additional things to offer that I will get accepted somewhere. I can always try to transfer up to a better school after the first year if I want to. If I do not get in anywhere, I am going to wait until my first two scores clear and try again.

If you think you can improve your score, you should give it a shot though...just remember they average so you have to try to be really confident you will go up.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: gentoo on January 16, 2005, 02:08:45 PM
What are your sub-150 folks going to do?  I was upset with my score since it was about 10 points lower than my prep-tests.  If the admissions round doesn't go so well, I figure I'll retake in June.

Looks like you have a good list going on though, I'm sure you'll get into somewhere. I too scored lower than actual prep tests, about 5 points lower, but I should have known that would happen. If this round doesn't go well for me, I am going to possibly take it in June and re-apply next year. I've realized that maybe that would be a better route for me, since I can gain some WE and devote more time to studying. The hard part is breaking the news to my mom who thinks I will be in law school by September. Oh well, we'll see how things go.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 16, 2005, 04:23:48 PM
I have thought about retaking the LSAT. I guess I feel like I don't need to. I don't know why? I guess I figure it's who I am and that's that. Maybe it's because I would like to be a private mediator and I don't see a low LSAT score preventing that.

The funny thing about all of my friends at law school is that they all have dreams of owning Ferrari's and retiring at 40, getting over on some big corp., etc. I will never really understand that.

I have had quite a bit of work experience, and one thing I have learned is that time (to me, at least) is more valuable than money.

I made a lot of money in my first job but had no time to enjoy it. Now, I make nothing but I am home everyday by three. Also something to think about.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: FloridaLaw on January 16, 2005, 04:25:02 PM
I can always try to transfer up to a better school after the first year if I want to.


Just because one wants to doesn't mean it will come true. A reminder for some of you who are thinking about transfering (just like many many other soon to be 1Ls), the percentage of people who successfully transfer in each school is probably lower than the percentage of applicants getting into Top 14.

Don't count on it, chances are, you won't be among the top 10 or 5 percent of your class.

FloridaLaw.   8)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: SSU_Mike on January 16, 2005, 04:27:36 PM
I have a GPA of 3.32 and an LSAT of 145. I applied to Whittier, Cal Western, Gonzaga, Willamette, Thomas Jefferson, Denver, and Valpo. The ball is in their court now. I'm sitting back and having a beer....
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on January 16, 2005, 04:29:55 PM

Don't count on it, chances are, you won't be among the top 10 or 5 percent of your class.

FloridaLaw.   8)

Thanks, but I have no doubt in my mind that I will be in the top 10% of my class, probably not the top 5% but definitely the top 10. I know myself as a student and I know my work ethic. Sure we can't all be at the top of our classes, but people who are at the top in under grad and masters programs tend to stay on the top. We know how to balance school, work, and life. Time management is what drags most people down.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: gentoo on January 16, 2005, 04:30:34 PM
I have a GPA of 3.32 and an LSAT of 145. I applied to Whittier, Cal Western, Gonzaga, Willamette, Thomas Jefferson, Denver, and Valpo. The ball is in their court now. I'm sitting back and having a beer....

Good luck Mike, let me know how Whittier goes. I am applying in March, hopefully with a higher LSAT.

How was the visit to San Diego? :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on January 16, 2005, 04:34:58 PM
Good luck Mike, you have the right attitude. Sit back and let it ride. There is not much else you can do!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: FloridaLaw on January 16, 2005, 04:45:01 PM

Quote
Thanks, but I have no doubt in my mind that I will be in the top 10% of my class
Quote

Hum...I sense some cockiness. One has to take into consideration that most people who go on to law school are motivated and hard working.  I doubt a sub 3.4 GPA was a top 10%.

FloridaLaw.   8)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on January 16, 2005, 04:48:46 PM
Ha. I love how you think you know everything. I was the top 7% of one of my majors. Since I can't draw and had to take 3 drawing classes for my second major my GPA dropped in that major and dragged my overall down. I doubt I will need to do drawing in law...and it is not cocky... it is confident.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Harrahs on January 16, 2005, 04:52:04 PM
floridalaw = jerk

hth

casino
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 16, 2005, 04:54:11 PM
My SAT was poo in high school, I have that standardized test problem.  If I narrow down and guess...I'm ALWAYS wrong.  Went to JC because my score was so poor and transferred to Berkeley on academic scholarship.  Had a 148 ten years ago w Princeton Review help.  That $1000 bucks down the toilet at the time really was painful making about $8 an hour at the time).  Took the Feb. 2004 LSAT just prepping myself and got a 154.  Spoke to several non Top 100 law schools about my professional goals and need for scholarships and now have T3 and T4 offers, one (Valpo) is a full ride.  It can be done!  I'm not an extraordinary applicant 3.5/154 non URM, 10 years WE.  All of you keep your chins up...plenty of opportunities for those who are willing to do their homework!  Best of luck.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: gentoo on January 16, 2005, 04:57:02 PM
Casino - my thoughts exactly. Sorry Floridalaw, I know you probably mean well, you just come off as a jerk sometimes.

Bradz - thanks for the words of encouragement! :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 16, 2005, 05:12:32 PM
No problem!  Some other food for thought.  I'm marrying into a family of lawyers and currently work for an attorney's family.  Their degrees are as follows University of Chicago, Hastings, Boalt (2), USF (2).  Those who placed highly in their classes are in academia, those in the middle of the pack work a ton and make the money.  I met Garth Brook's attorney about 12 years ago while on vacation (believe he was a U of Memphis grad).  First time I heard the law school saying that, "A's make faculty, B's make judge, and C's make money."  Those of you who prioritize properly will do just fine!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: FloridaLaw on January 16, 2005, 05:22:17 PM
Sorry Floridalaw, I know you probably mean well, you just come off as a jerk sometimes.

I might come off strong (well intended), but I tell the truth instead of sugar coating everything.  Most of us going to law school vision being in the top 10% or at least top 50%, but most of us don't and that's just the reality.

By the way, in case you don't know, shadowcreepers had put me down by categorizing me into Tier 4 and Tier 3 and thinks that she is a much better candidate becasue of her "achievements".  

For those of you who scored low on the LSAT, it's not the end.  If you have a good GPA and play the admission game well, you will get into a good law school. Cockiness is a huge NO NO on your personal statement (my guess is that's what has caused Shadowcreeper being Deferred/WL at a Tier 4 even with all those "achievements" she claimed to have). 

HTH.

FloridaLaw.  8)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 16, 2005, 05:26:56 PM
Brad, thanks for the posts. Good to hear.

I am still hoping for some scholarship offers despite my low LSAT score!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on January 16, 2005, 05:31:38 PM
You really are a jerk. You hold a grudge against me for reiterating what everyone else in the thread told you. For some reason you felt it was easy to single me out. Your numbers alone were not good enough for a T2. People told you to apply to lower schools just incase. I NEVER put you down, or anyone else on this message board. It is not in my nature. However, you tend to be very good at putting others down.

I did not get WL at a T4 because I was cocky. I got waitlisted because of my LSAT scores. I called the school and spoke with an ad com to figure out what the problem was, I got waitlisted because of all my extras. My personal statement discusses overcoming adversity, it is not me being cocky.

I think from this point on, I am going to do my best to ignore your absurd comments. It is a waste of my time going back and forth with you because I do not feel the need to justify myself to you and most people on this board already know you are a jerk.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: FloridaLaw on January 16, 2005, 05:32:46 PM
Brad, thanks for the posts. Good to hear.

I am still hoping for some scholarship offers despite my low LSAT score!

You might get some money from some Tier 4 law school where your GPA is above their 75 percentile....but don't be dissapointed if you don't get any scholarships...most law grads graduated with debts, that's just the reality.

FloridaLaw.  8)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 16, 2005, 05:33:55 PM
WOMBAT-  Willamette has started mailing out letters.  I'm hoping they have a little help in mind in the form of money $$$!  Good luck to you!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: thelawfool on January 16, 2005, 06:55:44 PM
didn't get below a 150, just had a question...

what do schools feel about the february lsat if your app is complete with december lsat scores? 

i have a feeling i'm in for a lot of deferrals or holds...
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 16, 2005, 07:28:03 PM
Mr. Fool,

You have to ask each school you have applied to.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: FloridaLaw on January 16, 2005, 09:59:25 PM
shadowcreeper, you don't know how to handle yourself, you have no class.  blah.

FloridaLaw.  8)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: I hear America singing on January 16, 2005, 10:01:35 PM
For the sub-150 crowd, PM me and I'll give you a few suggestions- I won't post them here because of Big Brother concerns.

There are a lot of schools you can get into, if you know where to look.

BTW, pay no attention to people like FloridaLaw.  Think about it, he has nothing better to do with his time than to make people with certain LSAT scores feel bad.

How can he be that bored?

Does he not have any good porn? ;)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: SSU_Mike on January 16, 2005, 10:43:54 PM
Keep things in perspective. We are all above average just for having the balls to go through with all this. How many people in this country, let alone the world, apply to law school? .5 % if that. Enjoy the experience. If you get in, you get in. If you don't, at least you have the experience under your belt.....
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 17, 2005, 06:55:30 AM
- Right on, Mike. Good thoughts.


- Syzgzggyz, I hit you with a PM, FYI.


- I really would prefer to avoid heckiln' & hasslin' each other. Let's try to have a contructive discussion....
Don't make me WOMBAT your ass!

 



 ;)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on January 17, 2005, 12:24:49 PM
SYZ... I also sent you a PM. Thanks for offering info. :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Harrahs on January 17, 2005, 02:08:46 PM
this is not meant to be ironic, since floridalaw was also accepted to u of arkansas fayetteville, but i just saw on lsn that someone was accepted there with a 145.  would give that school some thought.

casino
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: g825 on January 17, 2005, 03:50:44 PM
I think I'm in the same boat. LSAT 150/153, which is after spending the 1,000 on Powerscore class. Except that I slacked off my first 2 years of UG so now my GPA is 2.7 (3.1 from school though). My master's degree isn't going to pull me up much (which is completely iritating). I know that I'm a T3 or 4 applicant, which is fine with me. I think for some (and me) that getting into a lower ranked school forces us to work a little harder, not taking it for granted. That's the expectation I will have going in. Ultimately, I just want to be able to decide between at least 2 schools of where I go, even if it's not the schools that I really wanted. Good luck to everyone!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bobo21 on January 17, 2005, 04:55:28 PM
Just a note of encouragement.  I took the LSAT, and got a 148.  I have no idea why, I was shocked when I got the score.  I took it a year later, and scored 163.  The conditions were better the first time I took it (i.e, bigger desk, less stress).  The second time I was freaking out because I actually thought I did worse.  I felt good after the first time, and I was nervous about the second.  Then I got the e-mail indicating a 163.  So my advice to someone who scored below 150 and tested higher is to take the test again.  You have very little to lose and don't always know how things will work out.

Now if I could only figure out how the various schools will view the 14 point jump in my score, but that is another thread.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: gentoo on January 17, 2005, 04:59:02 PM
Just a note of encouragement.  I took the LSAT, and got a 148.  I have no idea why, I was shocked when I got the score.  I took it a year later, and scored 163.  The conditions were better the first time I took it (i.e, bigger desk, less stress).  The second time I was freaking out because I actually thought I did worse.  I felt good after the first time, and I was nervous about the second.  Then I got the e-mail indicating a 163.  So my advice to someone who scored below 150 and tested higher is to take the test again.  You have very little to lose and don't always know how things will work out.

Now if I could only figure out how the various schools will view the 14 point jump in my score, but that is another thread.

Bobo - did you study for a year before taking it the second time around? Or was it just because you were in a better state of mind? If you studied, do you mind sharing your secrets?  :D Thanks for sharing your story, it puts my mind at ease and gives me a little encouragement. :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bobo21 on January 17, 2005, 05:18:59 PM
I meant to study, but that never really happened.  I always did well on diagnostics, so that 148 really wasn't reflective (but I guess everyone says that) and I decided to lower my expectations, take it again and just apply.  I have been out of school for 5 years and just felt I needed to get it over with. I always did really well on all sections with the exception of the games, so I did focus more on those...
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: I hear America singing on January 17, 2005, 06:08:37 PM
For all those who PMed me...

I will respond in length- just give me a little time.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: DLAW on January 17, 2005, 07:03:11 PM
There is a law school that will accept you guys, even if it may not be the best. Be happy that you will get into some law school. I have many friends who are applying to medical schools and can't even get in one (and thats with decent GPAs and MCATs). They would give their left arm to be accepted even to Bumblef$ck University School of Medicine. They keep telling me how lucky I am that there are law schools out there for "underachievers". They wish it was same in the medical institutions. Just go to law school, study hard, make connections, refine your interviewing skills, and you'll be fine. Don't let these "HYS or bust" clowns on LSD get you down (which they do quite often, even if it is inadvertantly).  Ten years down the road, no one will care, including yourself, which law school you went to. Thats my opinion.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: XMichiganX on January 17, 2005, 10:55:09 PM
I just wanted to offer the guys on girls on this board my vote of confidence.  I scored a 150 and went to a public university in Michigan. 

There is a difference between us and those geeks who get ulcers hoping for Harvard. We are the ones who probably had some cool friends in college, probably partied some, actually worked because Daddy never gave us the porsche boxer after high school, participated in the real world to some extent, perhaps have families that are more important to us than the Yale admissions yuppie snobs and don't seek our validation or approval from other people.  We understand that our time, family, friends and happiness are more important than how high our school is esteemed in academic circles.

To put it one way, we are real people while they are homework-obsessed drones with poor social skills and poor fashion taste, probably.

There is a law school out there for each of us.  We are not seeking law school in order to give our parents something to brag about at the country club; rather we do it because we will be good at it. Better than the geeks.  In fact, I plan on being a trial attorney and i CAN'T WAIT to meet some of these rich brats in court.  Do you live in the vicinity of a 'top' law school?  Have you visited?  Do you know these kids? DORKS.

I have nothing against those who get into whatever big name school that they are dreaming of.  Good for them.  But I have had way too many lawyers, judges and politicians tell me "it doesn't matter where you go to school, it matters what you do once you pass the bar."

Mark Geragos went to a law school that I've seen ridiculed on this board (Loyola CA) and George W. Bush was a C student.  Love or hate either of these people, they are proof that academics matter very little.  I also know a guy from Harvard law who's really dumb, for what it's worth. 

I am a high school drop out, and proud of it.  I've already gotten a few acceptance letters and I'm going with the school with the nicest weather and prettiest girls, because those are two things that matter to me, not 'alumni giving rate.'  Please.

Anyway, best regards to all of us 150 people and also to those frantically checking lawschoolnumbers.com and running to the mail box.  Relax, you'll never make it as a lawyer if you are this concerned with the admissions process. 

love

150 LSAT in Michigan   
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Tpie82 on January 17, 2005, 11:27:54 PM
Ya know...

I fully agree that the rampant elitism which spits around these messageboards is ignorant and annoying (more so xoxo than here).  However, taking it to the opposite extreme and calling everyone applying to Harvard a geek/rich kid is probably even more stupid.  Righteous indignation is fine as long as you don't turn around and use it as an excuse to propagate the same type of garbage.       
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: XMichiganX on January 17, 2005, 11:31:09 PM
Perhaps, but I get pushed to say such things. 

And yes anyone at Harvard is a geek, it's a requirement.  I've been a high school teacher for 3 years and I've yet to see a cool kid apply there.  But I have seen lots of rich nerds and the occasional math-obsessed outcast.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 01:36:25 AM

Now c'mon Michigan - according to the best dictionary ever (Dictionary.com, of course, what else?), the definition of a dork is "a stupid, inept, or foolish person." On behalf of Harvard, I am deeply, deeply offended.

:P ok no I'm not.

But seriously, if you're talking about the undergrad (which, since you're a high school teacher, you must be?), it may be that you've never met a cool applicant, but I can assure you that lots of the actual students there are amazing, wonderful, fun people.  Some are idiots who get drunk every night and party just like at any other school, some are just nice and hard-working, others are some of the most amazing athletes in the country.  I know this isn't a big deal - I just love the place, and so wanted to stand up for its student body :)  And I actually met very few rich kids (although of course, there were some) - I think over 80% of the student body is on some sort of need-based financial aid. 

Anyway, doubt this changes your opinion - just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: XMichiganX on January 18, 2005, 08:58:51 AM
Dolcejn, you are probably the coolest girl in Cambridge, I'd imagine.  I understand that you are defending your alma matter, and I respect that.

But, it's hard to argue that schools like Harvard do not atract the dorks who studied for all four years of high school (except for the time they spent on thier SAT-pre classes, they left their room and computer then, just for like an hour).

And by all means, a "dork" may very well be like your definition a "amazing, wonderful, fun" person. They will just more than likely be a socially awkward, amazing, wonderful and fun person who doesn't get asked out much.

I know plenty of geeks who went to my old community college.  But they were more like Hot Topic / Dungeons and Dragons dorks whereas Ivy attract kids who worship homework. 
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 10:01:25 AM
lol - "Coolest girl in Cambridge!"  I should put that on a plaque :P

You know, I guess if I'm being honest, a lot of undergrads in Cambridge were a little crazy.  And in high school, I suppose homework was my first priority!  God knows why. 

In certain circles, it's community of people who pushed themselves too hard, too early, in a lot of ways.  I'm glad I took it easy in college and had a good time. 

You teach high school?  A part of me has always wanted to do that, for the perfectly awful reason that I adored some of my teachers in high school, and the idea of being adored is appealing :P  You must enjoy it, to have continued for a few years?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: XMichiganX on January 18, 2005, 10:18:48 AM
Yeah I teach high school, which is fun.  But it is ultimately a let down. I've done public school (a failed system beyond repair) private school (still not getting what you paid for) and Charter schools (the best model I've seen) but I feel that it is a disparaging situation, so I'm leaving while I'm young.

Anyways... it sounds like you knew how to balance life and school and have fun without being snobby (you need to rub off on some of the others on this site). Keep it up!

gotta run

Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: I hear America singing on January 18, 2005, 10:29:39 AM
I've actually been accepted to several T2 schools (with my numbers I could get into a few T1s) but I'm attending a so-called T.T.T. so I can return home.

I don't think my choice of law school is really going to influence my life that much- at least not the direction I intend on going.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: XMichiganX on January 18, 2005, 12:22:27 PM
Right on. I wish that more people pn this board would go where they wanted instead of what is most impressive to thier friends and family.

I know a guy who went to the lowest ranking school you can imagine because it was close to his hometown... and he now owns a mansion and a brand new 7 series, and he's home by 5 because he started his own firm and loves his family.

Not that these material things matter, but he is successfull by anyone's measure. And it didn't take a "T-14" to get him there.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 12:25:45 PM
thanks a lot, michigan :) and good for you for getting out of a career you were unhappy with, and getting into a career you're excited about.

:)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Neub on January 18, 2005, 01:46:21 PM
I am completely impressed with Dolce in how upbeat and non-combative her response was to XMichiganX. Frankly, I can't believe that a former-teacher would regularly use the term "dork". Perhaps this is a reason for the current state of our education system.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 01:50:12 PM
Yes, Michigan's use of the word "dork" is the primary reason our education system is in the state it is in.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Neub on January 18, 2005, 01:54:17 PM
sarcasm?!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 02:03:17 PM
neub, that's nice of you to say :)

I think Michigan was speaking from his own experience - hey, my sister hated Harvard when she visited!  I can just speak to my experience with the students there, which was really great. 

And speaking of "dork," did you know an alternate def. is a whale's...thing?  Weird, huh?  Always makes me think twice before telling someone I'm a dork. 

Or maybe someone just told me that when I was fifteen and I was gullible enough to believe that...
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 02:14:43 PM
Hey Dolce, did you know gullible is not in the dictionary.  :o
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 02:15:33 PM
Hey Dolce, did you know gullible is not in the dictionary. :o

Look, I'm not falling for that again.  Twice is enough.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 02:17:11 PM
Hey Dolce, did you know gullible is not in the dictionary. :o

Look, I'm not falling for that again.  Twice is enough.

lol
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Neub on January 18, 2005, 02:18:15 PM
no prob.

Hmmm, I used to know a website that had all the original meanings of words we "misuse" today, if only I could remember.  Oh well, but I can tell you this much, it would have been a ton of dork fun!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 02:18:59 PM
Good to see the original avatar back, Dolce.  Or is this part of the revolving door that has been your avatar?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 02:24:54 PM
Yup, the door.  I wish people would change their avatars a lot - it keeps people on their toes!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 02:27:33 PM
Awww. The love.
 :-*


So, how do y'all decide where to apply?
When I look at the LSAT percentiles I always think, "Ok, I'll just be one of those 30 acceptees whose LSAT is below the 25%."

This lets me sleep at night. Am I crazy?

Are there any stats on the make-up of the "bottom of the barrel," so to speak?

About the whole nerd thing... I know some really stupid smart people - I also know some really smart stupid people.
I happen to be a really smart stupid people.  

ZING!  :o
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 02:38:11 PM
Yup, the door.  I wish people would change their avatars a lot - it keeps people on their toes!

The more things change the more they stay the same!  I have some more digital pics after these 5 past days...maybe I can motivate myself to post a new avatar.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 02:39:42 PM
I have a really pretty one I used once before.  Does anyone want to see it?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 02:41:44 PM
go for it :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 02:42:32 PM
Are you sure? 

Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 02:43:45 PM
oh wait.  wait wait wait.  never mind.  lol. 
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 02:45:48 PM
 :D
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 02:46:32 PM
Are you sure? 



You're just seeking attention by keeping us in suspense.   ;D
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 02:47:41 PM
lol - nope, he's being considerate and asking our permission.  Which he does not have!

Sox, you've been eating that waffle for a while - time for another one!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: russian_concussion on January 18, 2005, 02:48:07 PM
oh wait.  wait wait wait.  never mind.  lol. 

jn, I hope you're not wishing me any luck over there!  >:(
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 02:49:29 PM
lol - nope, he's being considerate and asking our permission.  Which he does not have!

Sox, you've been eating that waffle for a while - time for another one!


Yea.  I will have a new avatar when I get the pics from my trip this past weekend.  In fact, the sole reason for my trip was to get ammo for my soon-to-be revolving door avatar.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: XMichiganX on January 18, 2005, 02:50:17 PM
Only dorks (or perhaps geeks) would get so touchy and riled up about the definition of a word...  Could it be that it apparently defines so nicely a great many people on this board? Touchy touchy...  

I admit that I approach the borders of dork-ness every time I post... But then again what can I do, since I single handedly caused the decline of our public education system by referring to the dorky kids in some of my classes by calling them dorks... I should have called them nerds. (See post by Neub, who "respects non-combativeness" sounds like a great lawyer in the making).

Nerds like geeks, not nerds like the candy.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 02:52:15 PM

jn, I hope you're not wishing me any luck over there! >:(

Always.  Heh heh heh ...

Yay, sox, well done.  :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 02:55:25 PM
Yea...my friends all made fun of me b/c when they were skiing, I was preparing for my avatar pics.   ;)

No, actually I was reading The Federalist Papers.  Hence they ripped me to shreds...guess I'm a dork like that!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 03:01:51 PM
Ooo, good bringing back of the word "dork" into the thread :)  and good choice of reading!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 03:05:32 PM
Ooo, good bringing back of the word "dork" into the thread :)  and good choice of reading!

I try.  And you're the first person who didn't laugh at my reading selection.  Good thing they didn't see the other books I brought withm as they were a little more "obscure." Then again, most of them asked what The Federalist Paper were ---  ;)God Bless Corporate America!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 03:13:08 PM
lol -  I hope you told them all about it :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 03:18:17 PM
lol -  I hope you told them all about it :)

lol

I am sure they would have been thrilled to hear all about it!  They were mostly excited I had escaped hell and am now headed to law school.  :D

I don't expect them to understand my dorkiness, just to nod their heads and buy me a beer.  ;D
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Runner-up on January 18, 2005, 03:46:28 PM
Hey, B-I-T-C-H-E-S, get off this thread!

None of you have LSAT's below 150. What's wrong with you? You wanna die?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 03:46:51 PM
Valpo is a TTT.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Runner-up on January 18, 2005, 03:55:06 PM
FINE! Valpo is a third tier toilet. I agree with you. Enough!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: jax327 on January 18, 2005, 03:58:31 PM
I don't understand these people who get on these threads with 178+ LSATs and call the schools that people are applying to "third tier toilets."  Get a life.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 04:28:16 PM
Most of the third tier toilet stuff is really in jest for most.  I'm more surprised people get in back and forths and get so emotional over labels.  WHO CARES!  I just want a JD... if Alpo gives it for free sign me up!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 04:30:02 PM
Most of the third tier toilet stuff is really in jest for most.  I'm more surprised people get in back and forths and get so emotional over labels.  WHO CARES!  I just want a JD... if Alpo gives it for free sign me up!

lol, very good
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: XMichiganX on January 18, 2005, 04:30:17 PM
Jax, these people do have a life, sort of. It's called "condescension." It's how they feel good about being social outcast.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 04:30:58 PM
But thread hi-jackers...thats death penalty land!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 04:32:16 PM
Jax, these people do have a life, sort of. It's called "condescension." It's how they feel good about being social outcast.

I take it this is your way of lashing out at everyone who is smarter than you.   ::)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 04:34:05 PM
We have arrived at the moral high ground...I hate myself
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 04:34:50 PM
A.J. & ilsox7,

I doubt that Dolce will have sex with either of you. Please flirt somewhere else.

Dolce, in the event that you would like to have sex with belgium waffle guy and intense man of mystery, please start a "guys who want to have sex with a 170+ Harvard woman," thread.

Thanks!

 :D
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 04:36:21 PM
Sexual intrigue and toilet talk...now I really hate myself
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 04:36:47 PM
wtf are you talking about?

That was a TTT flame attempt if I have ever seen one.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 04:39:05 PM
Its hard to stop...first step is admitting I have a problem
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: XMichiganX on January 18, 2005, 04:39:16 PM
Sample LSAT question, since you've apparently been doing so so good on your little practice tests... I'm so proud! Hang up your little test scores on the fridge, dork:

There are 4 condescending nervous dorks waiting around a mailbox for an acceptance letter to an elitist over-priced law school that will allow you to take the bar the same way that a thousand other cheaper ones will... which geek will get an acceptance letter first and then proceed to sell her soul to the corporate machine while sacrificing family and health?  

Yeah you are smarter me, sure...  
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 04:39:33 PM
wtf are you talking about?

That was a TTT flame attempt if I have ever seen one.

AJ, we're no longer allowed to have meanigless conversation with people to pass the time.  Maybe we should direct WOMBAT to the avatar thread of a few weeks ago.  He'd have a field day with that one!

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,20336.0.html

Edited to add that link.  Have at it WOMBAT...flame away all you want over there.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 04:41:34 PM
Sample LSAT question, since you've apparently been doing so so good on your little practice tests... I'm so proud! Hang up your little test scores on the fridge, dork:

There are 4 condescending nervous dorks waiting around a mailbox for an acceptance letter to an elitist over-priced law school that will allow you to take the bar the same way that a thousand other cheaper ones will... which geek will get an acceptance letter first and then proceed to sell her soul to the corporate machine while sacrificing family and health? 

Yeah you are smarter me, sure...   



...and I lack your propensity to make incredulous personal attacks on people I dont know. 

GO ME!  8)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 04:43:19 PM
Now that everyone has bared their souls...I feel some sort of bond
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 04:44:53 PM
Aww man. It's gone. My little thread is ruined!  :'(

Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 04:46:33 PM
Its actually a pretty big ruined thread.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 04:51:55 PM
wtf are you talking about?

That was a third tier toilet flame attempt if I have ever seen one.

I am talking about page 4. The "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" sequence.
Ahhh. Takes me back to 7th grade.  :-*
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 04:53:12 PM

I am talking about page 4. The "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" sequence.
Ahhh. Takes me back to 7th grade.  :-*

Actually it was an inside joke between Dolce and I.  Take carefull note of her response.


The comment "Dolce will not have sex with either one of you" has a strong TTT element to it.

HTH
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 04:57:37 PM
Ahh yes. You mean a "Private Message."
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 05:01:10 PM
Check yourself and tread very carefully Mr. D.A.R.E.,

I have some experiences under my belt that very few people achieve.
I take great offense to all of this Third Tier Toilet nonsense.

That is why I started this thread.

I have not made any direct insult to anyone on this board (save the racist guy).
I ask in return that you do not insult me.

Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 05:02:45 PM
I thought the sex talk was over.... no more about toilets or your privates.  
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 05:03:41 PM
Sounds like you two need to meet in  the parking lot after school
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 05:03:47 PM
You're displaying an ingnorant tendancy.  Remember, you broke out with the stupid sex comment. 


Ask Dolce what the joke is.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 05:04:57 PM
You're wasting your energy, AJ.  Let WOMBAT have his/her fun.  ;)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: AmbitV on January 18, 2005, 05:08:21 PM
Hey Conan O'Brien and Natalie Portman went to Harvard, they're not that dorky.  Well COB might be.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 05:16:11 PM
Look, I just wanted to chat with other people who had LSAT scores below 150.

Thanks!  ;)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 05:22:44 PM
Look, I just wanted to chat with other people who had LSAT scores below 150.

Thanks!  ;)

That's cool.  But look around this site...many threads have a couple different discussions going on at the same time.  Threads generally get hijacked, but the original topic is also discussed.  I think it's a good thread you started, but don't jump down our throats b/c of a few posts aimed at joking around or passing the time.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: bradzwest on January 18, 2005, 05:23:09 PM
There are cool people on this site with low LSATS, just wish they had better senses of humor.  I got a 148 and a 154!  I knew it was time to come out!  I need to call my parents...they should hear it from me.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 05:27:58 PM
iL,

That's cool. I understand that.

I really don't think people realize how intimidating phrases like "Third Tier Toilet" are.
I realize a lot has happened in this thread - and I am mixing up a few issues, but I really
was hoping to see what other people's ideas are. Some of the posts here make it sound like you are going to die of cancer if your LSAT is below 160 (much less 150). I don't believe that.

I was trying to be funny since Dolce got such a response from both of you. If that is related to a previous thread, than forgive me.

I still don't appreciate the third tier toilet stuff. It really is nonsense.

BUT, I do have a sense of humor. Really!
 ;D
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 05:31:43 PM
Yea, you gotta kind of do your own filtering.  TTT is used a lot around here, sometimes as a joke and sometimes degradingly.  Some people just like to get a rise out of others.  There are some really cool people here and some great information can be found here, but always remember it's an internet message board, so you're gonna have your assholes too.

As for the original topic...my advice, if at all possible, would be to look into the Studying for the LSAT threads.  There are tons of people who made 10+ point improvements the 2nd time they took the test.  Unfortunately, the LSAT is weighed heavily.  I think it's always worth a retake if you're <150.  If you end up with a score below 150 after retaking, there are still many schools you can get into.  JMO.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 05:33:48 PM
If this thread is about how to improve let me offer this:  my TM instructor got a 147 on his very first diagnostic.  After a year of studying (and taking TM) he got a 170 something on the actual.  Yes you can improve if you really want it. 
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 05:35:03 PM
sorry, went away from thread on bono's request.  

yeah, aj, sox and I have a silly thing with our avatars going.  You're totally right, we hijacked the thread.  apologies all around.

:)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 05:37:01 PM
HUGS!  :-*

Seriously, what is TM?

AJ, we are still on for the parking lot. Maybe, like, 4 p.m., instead of 3 p.m.

 ;D
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 05:39:15 PM
sorry, went away from thread on bono's request.   

yeah, aj, sox and I have a silly thing with our avatars going.  You're totally right, we hijacked the thread.  apologies all around.

:)

Don't listen to her, she's just out to cause trouble.  Speaking of which, isn't it late over there?

Also, as AJ said, there are some good ways to improve scores...I think it's worth it.  Also, some of the classes are sposed to be good, and when you think about it, $1,000 isn't much when compared to the 100K you'll be spending on the education as a whole.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ilsox7 on January 18, 2005, 05:40:10 PM
TM = Test Masters, I presume.  They teach what is sposed to be a great class.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 05:40:39 PM
Testmasters @ http://www.testmasters180.com/ (not the other one)

I STRONGLY recommend them or Powerscore if you are looking for a course (content is the same, essentially).  If you are a do it on your own type of person, Powerscore offers the Logical Reasoning Bible as well as the Logic Games Bible and the Ultimate Setup Guide.  I dont not own the latter two but I understand them to be great, the best prep materials on the market.  I can vouch for the LRB as being VERY helpful.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Dolcejn on January 18, 2005, 05:45:31 PM
very late. :) off to bed.

and test masters was helpful only for all the practice tests/problems, at least in my experience.

l8r!

Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 05:47:30 PM
Thank you for un-hijacking this thread. I mean that.

I done got good grades (3.4) from a decent school (UB) and I am a reasonably intelligent guy.
If I look at any LSAT question long enough, and actually read it, I get it right - including Logic.

I just get crushed with time / focus.

Do courses really help you with this? I am so freakin' ADD.

Thanks
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: A.J on January 18, 2005, 05:57:39 PM
Yes, I believe so.  You will come to know the test and realize that they do the same things over and over again.  With knowledge of how the test works you will be able to anticipate where the authors are going often times.  The net result will be improved efficiency with respect to time.

Try this to find a benchmark for yourself.  Take an untimed test.  Take a Saturday and spend all day-seriously.  See how you did.  This will tell you where you are now, cognitively, absent the stress and pressure of being under timed conditions.  Do this prior to taking a prep class in order to find what you are capable on your own and also to convince yourself that you are capable of beating the test.  After a concerted effort on your part to learn the methods and to understand the test you should have the skills necessary to work under pressure.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 06:11:29 PM
Thanks, my man.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 18, 2005, 07:28:02 PM
Some thoughts to re-stoke the conversation:

- Where will you apply
- How do feel about less than 150
- Will you retake
- Will you throw in the towel
- Does your score change your plans

I don't necessarily plan on being a lawyer. I basically want a JD from a college in a new and different city, in a different region.

Just out of curiosity, what other careers do you peeps have in mind if LS doesn't work out?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: I hear America singing on January 18, 2005, 09:21:23 PM
This board is in NO WAY representative of the average law school applicant. 

Always remember this.  It will make it easier. 

Many of the people you talk to will have scores in the 90+ percentile.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing, just know that there's nine other people out there somewhere for every one person you talk to here with a high score.  That'll help.

In other words, there's a hell of a lot more WOMBATS out there than (insert high LSAT scorer's name here). 

In even more other words, it would kinda be like going to a message board on BET.  Someone would probably get the impression that most of America is African-American if they only used that data to project demographics...

This board is neither representative nor a true reflection.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: gentoo on January 18, 2005, 09:35:32 PM
- Where will you apply
I plan on staying right where I am, so I am applying as far north as Los Angeles and as far south as San Diego. Distance is my biggest concern, I'm not a big fan of being stuck in Southern California traffic. Basically, the closer the better, so even if I got accepted into Whittier I'd be happy. (Heh, I wouldn't even have to take the freeway...)

- How do feel about less than 150
Not too happy. I almost gave up on my law school dreams, but after thinking about it for a few days. I thought I should turn the situation to my advantage and use it as a motivation tool instead of an obstacle. So here I am today.

- Will you retake
Yes definetly.

- Will you throw in the towel
Never! :)

- Does your score change your plans
It slowed down my plans by a year, but it definetly is not stopping me. If anything, seeing the sub-150 score only motivates me to try harder the second time around. :D I'm also very open to the idea of applying next year since its so late in the app cycle, why not just reapply next year and study for 6 months? Now, how to tell my mother, thats a whole different story. :-[

-Just out of curiosity, what other careers do you peeps have in mind if LS doesn't work out?
I haven't even really thought about other options. I had the opportunity to work at UCI's office of development, but I turned it down to pursue law school. I'm also interested in law enforcement or probation. But I've had my heart set on law school for awhile, so I'm not ready to give up yet. ;)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: leoladybug on January 19, 2005, 02:01:33 PM
I have a 3.66/149 and recently applied to valpo, albany, syracuse, loyola new orleans, CUNY, and buffalo.

The LSD can be pretty discouraging but I am remaining optimistic.  I want to do international human rights law and I hope that my PS, references, grad degree, international service experience and little bit of WE help me out!  Worst case scenario- I study my butt off for the June LSAT and reapply next Fall!

Best of luck to all of you!!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WoeIsMe on January 19, 2005, 02:27:54 PM
Another way to consider a Testmasters or Powerscore is a class in basic logic.  not in the sense of 'oh that guys smart, or that guys a dumbass', but instead methods of evaluating and challenging arguments.

to be perfectly honest, i felt pretty crappy with the notion of taking an lsat prep, but afterwards I realized it is much more than that, and even if I did not go to law school and chose some other endeavor, one benefit would include improved communication skills.  Since most of my training is in engineering/sciences my thought process initially was almost the opposite of what's required for the lsat.   I've always been trained to gather the facts (premises) and let the facts speak for themselves.. in this sense the emphasis is on the premises and not the conclusion.  the lsat is 90% how strong is the conclusion and how do we strengthen and weaken it.

it's a shame that a logic class in philosophy (not the predicate calculus crap) is not a requirement or STRONG recommendation for law school.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on January 29, 2005, 08:23:59 AM
Bump.

I just wanted to keep this thread alive since letters should start showing up in the mailbox  :o

Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Barbaloot on January 29, 2005, 12:19:32 PM
bump
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: midjeep on January 29, 2005, 06:33:04 PM
Some thoughts to re-stoke the conversation:

- Where will you apply
- How do feel about less than 150
- Will you retake
- Will you throw in the towel
- Does your score change your plans

I don't necessarily plan on being a lawyer. I basically want a JD from a college in a new and different city, in a different region.

Just out of curiosity, what other careers do you peeps have in mind if LS doesn't work out?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: official2008 on January 29, 2005, 06:47:54 PM
Another way to consider a Testmasters or Powerscore is a class in basic logic.  not in the sense of 'oh that guys smart, or that guys a dumbass', but instead methods of evaluating and challenging arguments.

to be perfectly honest, i felt pretty crappy with the notion of taking an lsat prep, but afterwards I realized it is much more than that, and even if I did not go to law school and chose some other endeavor, one benefit would include improved communication skills.  Since most of my training is in engineering/sciences my thought process initially was almost the opposite of what's required for the lsat.   I've always been trained to gather the facts (premises) and let the facts speak for themselves.. in this sense the emphasis is on the premises and not the conclusion.  the lsat is 90% how strong is the conclusion and how do we strengthen and weaken it.

it's a shame that a logic class in philosophy (not the predicate calculus darn) is not a requirement or STRONG recommendation for law school.


what exactly are you saying here? can you clarify it for the slower people (read: me).
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: mm3953a on January 30, 2005, 11:57:53 AM
I did horribly on the LSAT and took it twice. I went to a horrible public high school. I struggled in college to do average(3.02). I managed to pay my tutition while going full-time for the last four years. I had awesome recommendation letters and a wonderfully written personal statement. Also, I am the first one in my family to graduate from high school and college. Spanish was my first language and have had to master English in college. I am so worried about getting into law school that I applied to 35 schools. I got the LSAC fee waiver so I only had to pay for two fees out of pocket. Are my chances good of getting in to any law school when you consider my background info? Everything i mentioned here was in my personal statement or additional background essay. I applied to some far out there schools like harvard, michigan just to see if i get accepted. In addition, I applied to all the UC law schools, Standford, USC, UChicago, BU, NOrtheastern, Northwestern, Depaul, UIllinois, WashU, Chicago-Kent, UMaryland, UHouston, Rutgers-Camden, GWU, G-Town, AU (alumni), William & Mary, Wash&Lee, UVA, George mason, Howard, Columbia, and many many more that I am forgetting right now. And all i want is to get into one law school. I would really hate to leave DC though. i love it here and have a great place. please, feel free to post your responses.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shiveringjenny on January 30, 2005, 02:51:51 PM
just getting this into unread replies.
carry on.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: I hear America singing on January 30, 2005, 04:16:32 PM
With a 3.4/149, an applicant has a 90% chance of being admitted to:

Inter American University School of Law PR $63 
Mississippi College School of Law MS $50 
Oklahoma City University School of Law OK 
University of Puerto Rico School of Law


With a 3.4/149, an applicant has a 60-80% chance of being admitted to:

Albany Law School of Union University
Appalachian School of Law VA $40 
Ave Maria University School of Law MI $50 
Capital University Law School OH $35 
University of Dayton School of Law OH 
University of The District of Columbia—
The David A. Clarke School of Law DC $35 
Hamline University School of Law MN $40 
New England School of Law MA $50 
Northern Kentucky University—
Salmon P. Chase College of Law KY $30 
Nova Southeastern University—Shepard Broad Law Center FL $50 
Ohio Northern University—Claude W. Pettit College of Law OH $40 
Pontifical Catholic University of Puerto Rico, School of Law PR $75 
Regent University School of Law VA $40 
Roger Williams University, Ralph R. Papitto School of Law RI $60 
St. Mary's University School of Law TX $55 
University of South Dakota School of Law SD $35 
South Texas College of Law TX $50 
Southern Illinois University School of Law IL $50 
Texas Wesleyan University School of Law TX $50
The Thomas M. Cooley Law School MI $0
Touro College—Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center NY $50 
Western New England College School of Law MA $45 
Whittier Law School CA $50 
Widener University School of Law PA $60 


I suggest applying to Mississippi College and Oklahoma City University as safeties; if you really want to go to law school, you're almost a lock at these schools.  Then use the second list as targets- if I were you, I'd apply to as many of them as I could afford to, just remember to only apply to a school you'd seriously consider attending.

For reaches, look toward the bottom of Tier 2.  University of Mississippi's average LSAT is 156, so with a solid GPA you have a chance.  Saint Louis, by the chart, also gives you a 30% chance or so of attending.

Write a really good PS.  I'm bored, so the first five who PM we I'll be happy to proofread your PS for you.  Let's just say I'm somewhat qualified to do so- I'll explain more when you contact me.  Be warned, I'm a harsh critic.

In short, you have options.  You will be attending law school in August if that is your goal.  I'd wish you luck, but looking at the numbers above- you won't need it.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: FloridaLaw on February 05, 2005, 07:23:57 PM
I agree with I Hear America.  You should apply to few safeties and tons of reaches. I have a 151, 3.37, non-URM, and I got accepted to a Tier 2 with money...but I also got rejected by a Tier 1 already, one of my top choices. But, if you don't try, you'll never know...right?

If you have a 149 and a 3.4, definatly apply to tons of Tier 2s.  There are many people with better numbers than I have and got rejected by Tier 3 and Tier 4...because they don't know how to play the admission game. With the right game plan and strategy, one can even get into Top 14 with a mid 150s. 

Your PS is very important.  Draw attention to any awards you have received, submit a resume if you have some work experience, get LOR that will support your PS, goals, etc.  Piece it all together nicely, you might end up at a Tier 2 or even a Tier 1.

HTH.

FloridaLaw.  8)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on February 13, 2005, 07:24:17 AM
But, if you don't try, you'll never know...right? .....

 Piece it all together nicely, you might end up at a Tier 2 or even a Tier 1.


I was just waitlisted at Buffalo and I am very happy about this!
There is hope.

GOONIES NEVER SAY DIE
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Ver on February 13, 2005, 11:39:55 AM
GOONIES NEVER SAY DIE

ha ha
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Smarti Jones on February 13, 2005, 03:55:25 PM
I agree with I Hear America.  You should apply to few safeties and tons of reaches. I have a 151, 3.37, non-URM, and I got accepted to a Tier 2 with money...but I also got rejected by a Tier 1 already, one of my top choices. But, if you don't try, you'll never know...right?

If you have a 149 and a 3.4, definatly apply to tons of Tier 2s.  There are many people with better numbers than I have and got rejected by Tier 3 and Tier 4...because they don't know how to play the admission game. With the right game plan and strategy, one can even get into Top 14 with a mid 150s. 

Your PS is very important.  Draw attention to any awards you have received, submit a resume if you have some work experience, get LOR that will support your PS, goals, etc.  Piece it all together nicely, you might end up at a Tier 2 or even a Tier 1.

HTH.

FloridaLaw.  8)

Congrats! I like to hear stories like this. What tier 2 school did you get accepted to?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on February 13, 2005, 05:43:57 PM
America Singing just got into his #1 pick with cash money  8)

Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: blake840 on March 01, 2005, 11:34:34 AM
BUMP

Let's keep this topic alive!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: happycat on March 01, 2005, 09:25:19 PM
America Singing just got into his #1 pick with cash money  8)



yay!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Amy2384 on March 01, 2005, 09:28:23 PM
YAY!!! Which School?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: gentoo on March 01, 2005, 09:48:03 PM
This is one of my favorite threads ever.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on March 02, 2005, 05:20:31 AM
America got into Mississippi w/ full ride. I don't know why, but I thought his LSAT was down here with us. Turns out he got a 165 I think. Either way, very cool. I remember now - he is always defending 3rd and 4th tier schools. I just assumed he had a low LSAT.

On Law School Numbers I set the search at > 150 and I bookmarked the results. Everyday I go to that bookmark and page search the date, for example 03/02/05 would be today's search. So everyday I see who has updated their profiles. I don't know if there is a better way to do this, but that works for me. Seems like everyone is having a tough go with admissions. I mean, we do have nosebleed seats, but hey, there will be some acceptances.

I am starting to think that I should retake the LSAT in June and reapply for the next cycle. Not because I want a better school, but because I want the cash money.

 
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: melloo653 on March 02, 2005, 09:15:47 AM
what do you guys think of Campbell?  I have a 148 LSAT, A 3.0 UGPA and a 3.75 GGPA?  Great chances with a Masters?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Amy2384 on March 02, 2005, 09:34:47 AM
They don't look at your graduate GPA.  Applying with a sub-150 LSAT and an average GPA is tough.  Put your best foot forward in your app and get stellar LOR's.  You can get in to schools, but it will be tougher.  Maybe I'm a romantic when it comes to the old debate about "looking beyond the numbers"  but I truly believe that you have to be the person who gets yourself in to a school.  You have to show the adcomms that you can do it.  Good luck to you with your apps.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: legalkitty on March 02, 2005, 11:45:51 AM
They don't look at your graduate GPA.  Applying with a sub-150 LSAT and an average GPA is tough.  Put your best foot forward in your app and get stellar LOR's.  You can get in to schools, but it will be tougher.  Maybe I'm a romantic when it comes to the old debate about "looking beyond the numbers"  but I truly believe that you have to be the person who gets yourself in to a school.  You have to show the adcomms that you can do it.  Good luck to you with your apps.

Great quote! How about, "I will literally be the old lady who lived in her shoes!"
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: wilhelmrdogg on March 02, 2005, 11:47:57 AM
its an easy test....you guys are stupid
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: I hear America singing on March 02, 2005, 11:58:12 AM
its an easy test....you guys are stupid

And people who insult others are geniuses- is that it?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: miller on March 02, 2005, 12:24:39 PM

I do not mean to be a buzz kill, but for those with a sub-150 LSAT score, I encourage you to try again. The legal market is a very tough market to break into from a law school in the 3 or 4th tiers. I would advise you to take the test again with a prep course from one of the companies and try to do much better. If you wish to pursue a legal career, do not attend a 3 or 4th tier school. You will forever be stigmatised by your degree and you will have about a 1% chance to practice anywhere other than the DAs office or in your own private practice. I am not trying to demean these schools, but for those of you who still have a chance, do not waist your time and money. If you are going to do this, do it right. Just some advice.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WhyNotMe on March 02, 2005, 01:13:47 PM
this message board is awesome and it made me feel so much better after reading. i am one of the "underacheivers" scoring 132, 144, 142 and planning on taking the upcoming June lsat. I'm hoping for at least a 10 point jump, but it will be touch. Good luck to all you guys!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on March 02, 2005, 01:28:29 PM

Mr. Jackar, meet me over here:

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,26924.0.html
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on March 02, 2005, 01:29:00 PM
Don't forget your toolbar!!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: KittenWithStix on March 02, 2005, 01:37:40 PM

I am not trying to demean these schools, but for those of you who still have a chance, do not waist your time and money.

Before you assert your intelligence, you should check your spelling.
HTH
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: frozenpeach on March 02, 2005, 02:10:46 PM
Well fellow low LSAT test scorers....I got my first rejection today  :(. I know its the first of many but I'm still holding on to some hope. Unlike many of the LSD members, I have no plans of ever practicing law. I just want a JD! Is that crazy or what? Well still holding out for the other 15 schools that I applied to. Wish me luck!

Here are the schools that I applied to:
Barry University
Drake University
Georgia State University
Northern Illinois
The Thomas Cooley Law School
University of Arkansas
University of Baltimore
University of Georgia
University of South Carolina
University of St. Thomas
University of Tennessee
Washington & Lee
Willamette University
William & Mary
Wake Forest
John Marshall Atlanta---REJECTION
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on March 02, 2005, 02:31:13 PM

I do not mean to be a buzz kill, but for those with a sub-150 LSAT score, I encourage you to try again. The legal market is a very tough market to break into from a law school in the 3 or 4th tiers. I would advise you to take the test again with a prep course from one of the companies and try to do much better. If you wish to pursue a legal career, do not attend a 3 or 4th tier school. You will forever be stigmatised by your degree and you will have about a 1% chance to practice anywhere other than the DAs office or in your own private practice. I am not trying to demean these schools, but for those of you who still have a chance, do not waist your time and money. If you are going to do this, do it right. Just some advice.
You have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, people who attend T3 and T4 schools do get jobs.  They may have a hard time getting BIGLAW jobs, but not all of the people attending lower tiered schools care about getting into biglaw. Sure, if you think you are going to get out of a T4 and make 125k you are in for a rude awakening, but there are plenty of people who get jobs and do just fine. Also, I am not sure where you found the stat that people who go to a low tier school have about 1% chance of practicing anywhere other than a DA’s office or in private practice, but I am pretty sure you pulled it out of you’re a$$. That would mean that 99% of the lawyers out in the world went to a T1 or T2 school. I hate to be the one to break it to you but, the majority of attorneys did not attend a top school.

On another note, I do not know who you have spoken to or what credible source you got the information from that if you graduate from a low tiered school you are never able to compensate from stigmata that you get from attending a low tiered school. Everyone and anyone I have ever talked to who practices law or works in a law related field has  told me that once you work for a year no one cares where your degree came from, but rather they care about how well you know the law and how well you do your job. Sure, going to Harvard helps make getting an initial high paying job easier, but that is about all it is going to do for you. I have also been told by numerous people that being in the top of your class is what determines how easy a person finds a job coming out of law school. Sure you can be at the bottom of your class in Harvard and still get an initial job. However, once you are in the field, you have to prove yourself. It does not matter if you are a moron from Harvard, or a moron from a T4 school, if you are a moron it will quickly show in how you handle yourself in the field. 

Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: charlottesometimes on March 02, 2005, 02:33:07 PM
Don't let anyone talk you out of applying to law schools because your score is below 150!  If you really want to become a lawyer, you can become successful regardless of what school you go to or graduate from.  You may have more of a struggle and up-hill battle and be more restricted to the city or region the school is in, but you can do it if you are determined.  Many of the well-known names, like Johnny Cochran, Gloria Allred, Marcia Clark, Mark Geragos, did not attend noteworthy law schools.

You can check out the ABA Official Guide to Law Schools to look at the LSAT/GPA applied/admitted grids to target possible schools.  If you are very low income, apply for the LSDAS fee waiver and then you can ask schools to for application fee waivers.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Amy2384 on March 02, 2005, 02:34:32 PM
Amen Sista!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: jwander on March 02, 2005, 03:02:36 PM
Unlike many of the LSD members, I have no plans of ever practicing law. I just want a JD! Is that crazy or what? Well still holding out for the other 15 schools that I applied to. Wish me luck!

If you even hinted to that on you PS, you are probably going to get many more rejections!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: dbgirl on March 02, 2005, 05:26:52 PM
I agree with the advice about taking the LSAT again.
I improved a lot on my second go-round. If I had realized how much I had screwed up my first score (much lower than my practice tests,) I would have cancelled. With me, I guess I had a mild nervous breakdown on test day. When I got my score back I knew there was no way I would get into the schools where I applied. So, although I was exhausted and broke from the first test, I took it again.

On another note someone said something about a low score means you will have to work for "the DA's office" as if that's somehow a bad thing? A last resort?

Anyway, where I live you better go to at least a tier 2 school to get a job at the DA's office. And, they seem to favor the tier 1 schools at the DA's office I want to work.


Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: TUNA on March 02, 2005, 11:47:25 PM
Mark Geragos went to a law school that I've seen ridiculed on this board (Loyola CA) and George W. Bush was a C student.  Love or hate either of these people, they are proof that academics matter very little.  I also know a guy from Harvard law who's really dumb, for what it's worth. 
  

Bush went to Harvard Business School and Yale undergrad. Using him as an example doesn't help your argument.

You are obviously a massive TTT and will fail at everything.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: TUNA on March 02, 2005, 11:49:44 PM

I am a high school drop out, and proud of it. 
Quote

You should be proud- that is quite an achievement! I am proud for you. Did you put this on your resume with your other accomplishments? When you go to job interviews do you say "I dropped out of high school, and I'm proud of it"?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: TUNA on March 02, 2005, 11:51:15 PM
Perhaps, but I get pushed to say such things. 

And yes anyone at Harvard is a geek, it's a requirement.  I've been a high school teacher for 3 years and I've yet to see a cool kid apply there.  But I have seen lots of rich nerds and the occasional math-obsessed outcast.

Explain how someone who is proud of being a high school drop-out can teach high school?

You must teach at the worst f-ing high school on earth. TEACH FOR AMERICA IS FOR TTT INNER-CITY LOSERS.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: dbzkenshinfreak on March 03, 2005, 01:29:31 AM
I would like to say that I am proud that all of you have decided to further your dreams and goals. Getting more education to make your life better is rarely ever wrong or bad. However, I would like to address one of you.

Hey XMichigan,
     I think if you had a more favorable views of the elite schools, then you might have been a better teacher. If you encouraged people to be nerds/geeks/dorks (do their homework, study for tests, etc) instead of discouraging it, then the educational systems might work better. If you complimented the Ivies and elite LACs instead of insulting them, then maybe kids in your classroom might strive for those schools. Teachers do influence their students. Not all people see the lenses of a high school dropout.
     At the top schools, pretty much all of us go to the top law schools because we want to, not because our parents want us to. If our parents wanted us to make money, then all of us would go into I-Banking. If our parents wanted to brag out what school we went to, then we would have gone to med school. I don't know why you keep emphasizing that we are doing this for our parents. My best guess is because you felt a lot of shame from your parents in not going to a great school. That's understandable. Go get theraphy, instead of imposing these views. I also don't know why you keep associating Ivies with rich kids. The truth is that at every single Ivy, at least 50% of the students receive finacial add. About 30% of the students have family incomes of less than $100,000. My best guess on why you associate Ivies with rich kids is because you haven't been able to make much money, but that's okay. Money doesn't mean everything.
     The truth is that on average, median, mode, nerds/geeks/dorks will make more money than those who are not. Sure, there are examples here and there in which people that didn't go to great schools made a lot of money, but that doesn't deny the *FACT* that nerds/geeks/dorks generally make a lot more. That also doesn't deny the *FACT* that there are a lot more nerds/geeks/dorks making a lot of money than those rare examples. Why go for rare occurrences instead of the general one. Look at the website of the Department of Labor. Why fight an uphill battle when you could push the boulder down the mountain?
     Also, I don't know why you *celebrate* and *are proud* of your failures. I think you should be more proud of your accomplishments (ie. getting into law school) than failing at high school.
     Also, we intellectuals/nerds/dorks/geeks like our friends, women, and life. My friends are loyal, understanding, interesting, and argumentative. It's great to connect on an intellectual level. I also like my intellectual women. I've laid the dumb blonde (easily doable by engaging them in a humorous and confidant way) and the hot intellectual girl, and I could honestly say that overall (mainly because of emotional connection through intellectual and sexual tension) sex from the hot intellectual girl was better. You prefer your friends, family, and women the way you do; and so do we.
     I'm trying to be nice here. I was a lot less insulting to you than you were towards nerds/geeks/dorks like me. Please reconsider your views.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: dbzkenshinfreak on March 03, 2005, 05:23:45 PM
I would like to say that I am proud that all of you have decided to further your dreams and goals. Getting more education to make your life better is rarely ever wrong or bad. However, I would like to address one of you.

Hey XMichigan,
     I think if you had a more favorable views of the elite schools, then you might have been a better teacher. If you encouraged people to be nerds/geeks/dorks (do their homework, study for tests, etc) instead of discouraging it, then the educational systems might work better. If you complimented the Ivies and elite LACs instead of insulting them, then maybe kids in your classroom might strive for those schools. Teachers do influence their students. Not all people see the lenses of a high school dropout.
     At the top schools, pretty much all of us go to the top law schools because we want to, not because our parents want us to. If our parents wanted us to make money, then all of us would go into I-Banking. If our parents wanted to brag out what school we went to, then we would have gone to med school. I don't know why you keep emphasizing that we are doing this for our parents. My best guess is because you felt a lot of shame from your parents in not going to a great school. That's understandable. Go get theraphy, instead of imposing these views. I also don't know why you keep associating Ivies with rich kids. The truth is that at every single Ivy, at least 50% of the students receive finacial add. About 30% of the students have family incomes of less than $100,000. My best guess on why you associate Ivies with rich kids is because you haven't been able to make much money, but that's okay. Money doesn't mean everything.
     The truth is that on average, median, mode, nerds/geeks/dorks will make more money than those who are not. Sure, there are examples here and there in which people that didn't go to great schools made a lot of money, but that doesn't deny the *FACT* that nerds/geeks/dorks generally make a lot more. That also doesn't deny the *FACT* that there are a lot more nerds/geeks/dorks making a lot of money than those rare examples. Why go for rare occurrences instead of the general one. Look at the website of the Department of Labor. Why fight an uphill battle when you could push the boulder down the mountain?
     Also, I don't know why you *celebrate* and *are proud* of your failures. I think you should be more proud of your accomplishments (ie. getting into law school) than failing at high school.
     Also, we intellectuals/nerds/dorks/geeks like our friends, women, and life. My friends are loyal, understanding, interesting, and argumentative. It's great to connect on an intellectual level. I also like my intellectual women. I've laid the dumb blonde (easily doable by engaging them in a humorous and confidant way) and the hot intellectual girl, and I could honestly say that overall (mainly because of emotional connection through intellectual and sexual tension) sex from the hot intellectual girl was better. You prefer your friends, family, and women the way you do; and so do we.
     I'm trying to be nice here. I was a lot less insulting to you than you were towards nerds/geeks/dorks like me. Please reconsider your views.

bump
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shiveringjenny on March 03, 2005, 08:01:02 PM
I would like to say that I am proud that all of you have decided to further your dreams and goals. Getting more education to make your life better is rarely ever wrong or bad. However, I would like to address one of you.

Hey XMichigan,
 I think if you had a more favorable views of the elite schools, then you might have been a better teacher. If you encouraged people to be nerds/geeks/dorks (do their homework, study for tests, etc) instead of discouraging it, then the educational systems might work better. If you complimented the Ivies and elite LACs instead of insulting them, then maybe kids in your classroom might strive for those schools. Teachers do influence their students. Not all people see the lenses of a high school dropout.
 At the top schools, pretty much all of us go to the top law schools because we want to, not because our parents want us to. If our parents wanted us to make money, then all of us would go into I-Banking. If our parents wanted to brag out what school we went to, then we would have gone to med school. I don't know why you keep emphasizing that we are doing this for our parents. My best guess is because you felt a lot of shame from your parents in not going to a great school. That's understandable. Go get theraphy, instead of imposing these views. I also don't know why you keep associating Ivies with rich kids. The truth is that at every single Ivy, at least 50% of the students receive finacial add. About 30% of the students have family incomes of less than $100,000. My best guess on why you associate Ivies with rich kids is because you haven't been able to make much money, but that's okay. Money doesn't mean everything.
 The truth is that on average, median, mode, nerds/geeks/dorks will make more money than those who are not. Sure, there are examples here and there in which people that didn't go to great schools made a lot of money, but that doesn't deny the *FACT* that nerds/geeks/dorks generally make a lot more. That also doesn't deny the *FACT* that there are a lot more nerds/geeks/dorks making a lot of money than those rare examples. Why go for rare occurrences instead of the general one. Look at the website of the Department of Labor. Why fight an uphill battle when you could push the boulder down the mountain?
 Also, I don't know why you *celebrate* and *are proud* of your failures. I think you should be more proud of your accomplishments (ie. getting into law school) than failing at high school.
 Also, we intellectuals/nerds/dorks/geeks like our friends, women, and life. My friends are loyal, understanding, interesting, and argumentative. It's great to connect on an intellectual level. I also like my intellectual women. I've laid the dumb blonde (easily doable by engaging them in a humorous and confidant way) and the hot intellectual girl, and I could honestly say that overall (mainly because of emotional connection through intellectual and sexual tension) sex from the hot intellectual girl was better. You prefer your friends, family, and women the way you do; and so do we.
 I'm trying to be nice here. I was a lot less insulting to you than you were towards nerds/geeks/dorks like me. Please reconsider your views.

bump

dude, be serious.
with a name like 'dbzkenshinfreak' you haven't had sex with anyone, hot or otherwise.  :D
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ryanjm on March 03, 2005, 08:53:34 PM
^I agree with jlf.

A question to you 150'ers: What is your view of the LSAT? Is it just another stupid test that has little predictive value? Are you thinking "ill be the one to prove it wrong"? I'm just wondering, because it would seem that understanding densely worded passages, being able to understand the logical flaws in someone's argument, and pure analytical ability would have a factor in whether you'll be able to be a good lawyer or not. When you graduate, it's you vs. all the other lawyers. What makes you think you'll be able to get a decent job competing with people who are, by all measurable means, smarter and more naturally talented at logical reasoning?

At what point do you wave the white flag and say "maybe I'm just not smart enough"? Is it a "never say die" attitude? Apply to wherever you can get in, no matter the school's reputation? I only say this because if I were to get under a 155, I'm not sure I would apply to law school. I would have to want to be a lawyer so bad that I couldn't imagine doing anything else I suppose. That could be the only logical motivation I can think of that would make me overcome the blatantly obvious fact that I'm going to have a very tough time competing with people who are smarter than me and attending better schools.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: dbzkenshinfreak on March 03, 2005, 09:57:42 PM
"dude, be serious.
with a name like 'dbzkenshinfreak' you haven't had sex with anyone, hot or otherwise.  :D
Quote

STFU... Do me a favor. Bend over, and shove your female private part up your ass. Don't make me slap you with my prestigious cock until you're blue in bruises. Since you look like a guy, you need to pump up your balls and staple it to your left nut. Then you might have as prestigious balls as mine. Anyway, MIT is only the second best college in Cambridge. I expect some loser comment from a MIT student like, "with a name like ... you haven't had sex with anyone, hot or otherwise." I guess my ability to get laid depends on my name.

HTH
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: dbzkenshinfreak on March 03, 2005, 10:01:00 PM
STFU, ryan.

The purpose of the legal profession is to ensure that the elites of society maintain power over the levers of social control and losers like you.

The legal profession allows the elites of the world to prevent change and maintain control by manipulating the laws of society to protect elite interests.

This is a good thing. The legal profession, and society in general, will become corroded from the inside if the underclass and dumbasses like you are allowed to enter the legal realm. This is why I believe elite schools should require minimum family incomes and prestigious last names prior to admitting candidates.

You will likely ask about public interest. Public interest is a sham used to deflect criticism of the legal profession's true objective, which is to keep the elites where they are. Sure, I'll volunteer for a couple hours one weekend. Surely this will alleviate the system of inequalities I strive to nurture.

Also, note that the vast majority of public interest lawyers went to TTTs. Elites humbly step up to their true role of running the world. Public interest just does not fit into the equation. You are headed to a TTT pithole.

The same is true of public defenders, who are usually terrible TTT lawyers, as you would know, Ryan.

Face it people- the legal profession is the best vehicle elites have to control society such that the underclass is forever oppressed. Those of you who are elite must join the struggle to ensure that the U.S. remains a stratified society.

I will do my part to ensure that non-elites never advance. I simply ask you to do the same. Help yourself and the American society now by committing suicide.

HTH
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: shadowcreeper on March 04, 2005, 05:43:16 AM
Ryan,

I do not think that we see the LSAT as just another stupid test. We all know just how much weight is put on the LSAT in the admission process. Unfortunately, many people do not test well. I know this is an excuse used by many people, but it is true in a lot of cases. I know that I do not do well on standardized testing from past experience. I had the same problem with the SAT, however I graduated with honors and I have a 4.0 in my masters program. In my case I really feel that standardized tests do not represent my abilities. Is this the problem with all people who score low on the test? No I doubt it, but I bet a good percentage of people below 150 have had this problem. I took the LSAT very seriously. I happened to test much better on practice tests, so I took the test three times. On the LSAT practice tests I was scoring 155 to 158 consistently. On the real deal which I took 3 times I scored a 149 Oct 2002, 144 Dec 2002, and a 150 June 2004. Some things are just not going to happen. Scoring high on the real deal happens to be one of them for me. I play with the cards I am dealt because I know that I suck at standardized testing.

I happen to do much better with blue book type tests. Which, luckily for me, is how law schools test their students.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on March 04, 2005, 06:00:18 AM
STFU, ryan.

The purpose of the legal profession is to ensure that the elites of society maintain power over the levers of social control and losers like you.

The legal profession allows the elites of the world to prevent change and maintain control by manipulating the laws of society to protect elite interests.

This is a good thing. The legal profession, and society in general, will become corroded from the inside if the underclass and dumbasses like you are allowed to enter the legal realm. This is why I believe elite schools should require minimum family incomes and prestigious last names prior to admitting candidates.

You will likely ask about public interest. Public interest is a sham used to deflect criticism of the legal profession's true objective, which is to keep the elites where they are. Sure, I'll volunteer for a couple hours one weekend. Surely this will alleviate the system of inequalities I strive to nurture.

Also, note that the vast majority of public interest lawyers went to TTTs. Elites humbly step up to their true role of running the world. Public interest just does not fit into the equation. You are headed to a third tier toilet pithole.

The same is true of public defenders, who are usually terrible third tier toilet lawyers, as you would know, Ryan.

Face it people- the legal profession is the best vehicle elites have to control society such that the underclass is forever oppressed. Those of you who are elite must join the struggle to ensure that the U.S. remains a stratified society.

I will do my part to ensure that non-elites never advance. I simply ask you to do the same. Help yourself and the American society now by committing suicide.

HTH


Wow. I've never known anyone to out themselves as a Nazi. Thank you for sharing.
I for one won't be arguing eminent domain for new golf courses.

As for elitism, we all return to cosmic dust - enjoy your stay - you won't be any
less dead than those you mock.

Also, take the hate to haterade... you may join me in the Wombat vs. Wilhmrdogg thread. I will append et. al to the title. Thanks! Catch ya later, bro!




Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: legalkitty on March 04, 2005, 08:15:00 AM
Ryan,

I do not think that we see the LSAT as just another stupid test. We all know just how much weight is put on the LSAT in the admission process. Unfortunately, many people do not test well. I know this is an excuse used by many people, but it is true in a lot of cases. I know that I do not do well on standardized testing from past experience. I had the same problem with the SAT, however I graduated with honors and I have a 4.0 in my masters program. In my case I really feel that standardized tests do not represent my abilities. Is this the problem with all people who score low on the test? No I doubt it, but I bet a good percentage of people below 150 have had this problem. I took the LSAT very seriously. I happened to test much better on practice tests, so I took the test three times. On the LSAT practice tests I was scoring 155 to 158 consistently. On the real deal which I took 3 times I scored a 149 Oct 2002, 144 Dec 2002, and a 150 June 2004. Some things are just not going to happen. Scoring high on the real deal happens to be one of them for me. I play with the cards I am dealt because I know that I suck at standardized testing.

I happen to do much better with blue book type tests. Which, luckily for me, is how law schools test their students.

Well done, Shadowcreeper. I couldn't have put it better myself. :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: I hear America singing on March 04, 2005, 08:44:31 AM
I fall on both sides of this fence on this issue.

I agree that there are bad test-takers, but for many people it's more of a time issue.

Almost anyone could score in the 170s on the LSAT if they had all day to complete it; I think this is why you see the disparity in GPA and LSAT scores.  Achieving a 4.0 in college means that the person has an outstanding work ethic; not necessarily that they are able to get the right answers in a short period of time.

Lawyers, on the other hand, often have to work under intense time constraints.  Looking the issue over and over again to get it right is often not an option.

I'm in no way saying that people with low LSATs can't become good lawyers, but they will need to work on the apparent weakness of performing under time constraints to be the best lawyer possible.

At the end of the day, the lawyer that gets work is the one that can do the best work and charge the least amount of time to do it.  Competition is a cruel beast.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ryanjm on March 04, 2005, 05:57:17 PM
LOL, that dbz dude PM'd me his response. I made a passing comment, he spewed a page-long rant. I think someone hit close to home with the "never gets laid" response :)
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on March 05, 2005, 07:29:04 AM
^I agree with jlf.

A question to you 150'ers: What is your view of the LSAT? Is it just another stupid test that has little predictive value? Are you thinking "ill be the one to prove it wrong"? I'm just wondering, because it would seem that understanding densely worded passages, being able to understand the logical flaws in someone's argument, and pure analytical ability would have a factor in whether you'll be able to be a good lawyer or not. When you graduate, it's you vs. all the other lawyers. What makes you think you'll be able to get a decent job competing with people who are, by all measurable means, smarter and more naturally talented at logical reasoning?

At what point do you wave the white flag and say "maybe I'm just not smart enough"? Is it a "never say die" attitude? Apply to wherever you can get in, no matter the school's reputation? I only say this because if I were to get under a 155, I'm not sure I would apply to law school. I would have to want to be a lawyer so bad that I couldn't imagine doing anything else I suppose. That could be the only logical motivation I can think of that would make me overcome the blatantly obvious fact that I'm going to have a very tough time competing with people who are smarter than me and attending better schools.



Thanks for pointing all of this out. I never realized that I am possibly "just not smart enough."
 :D

Let me think about this for a while...

 ....... a long, unproductive, illogical, fruitless, stupid while.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: mhkuang on March 05, 2005, 07:47:37 AM
[quote author=
 Achieving a 4.0 in college means that the person has an outstanding work ethic; not necessarily that they are able to get the right answers in a short period of time.


Quote

Or it could mean this person had an easy major. You can practically count with one hand how many mechanical engineering majors from Georgia Tech have 4.0 GPA, ever.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: Harrahs on March 05, 2005, 08:04:17 AM
i would also say this: the lsat is a predictor of success of first-year law students, not lawyers (i am aware that you can logically trace success in first year to success down the road).  in that sense, it makes sense why those that score low do go on to law school.  success in the first year of law school is a much greater determinant of future success as a lawyer than is one's score on the lsat.  those in the top 10%, regardless of lsat, most likely will do better than those in the bottom half. 

casino
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: ryanjm on March 05, 2005, 12:34:01 PM
I agree with you casino, to a point. If your lsat is low, you're not competing against the people with high lsats because they went to better law schools. Therefore, even if you do well in your first year of law school, it's only compared to the other people with low scores. After you graduate, you're put back into the same pool with all the other big fish that got high scores and went to highly ranked schools. This is why I think it is very tough to be a lawyer in a highly competetive market when you don't have much that makes you stand out. How would that 150 lsat'er have done at a decent tier-1, Ohio State for instance?
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: dbzkenshinfreak on March 05, 2005, 01:01:12 PM
STFU, Ryan. I've laid more people that you have. You should be worshipping me as I am infinitely more prestigious and elite than you are. None of you fuckers-dipshits can compete with me. I PWN everyone on this board, even other elites. This is why:

1. My family has been in this country pwning everyone since the founding of the republic. We are responsible for the formation of this country. Very few of you fuckers can say the same thing.

2. I attended the ultra-elite Harvard University and chose a very difficult, non-TTT major- the vast majority of you douches majored in feminist studies with a concentration in rimjobs. You were busy talking about your feelings while I was learning how to build weapons for the government to pwn the earth in future wars.

3. I will attend Harvard Law School next fall to hone my skills of pwn3rship. I don’t really need to go to law school, but I’m going anyway just so that I can tell people to STFU if they challenge my eliteness. Some of you losers-fuckers will say that I didn’t get into Yale- no *&^% fuckers! I don’t care about Yale, as I want the competitive atmosphere of HLS, which is more conducive to asserting my pwn3rship of everyone. Yale is an enemy of our republic and this great nation anyway. In fact, I am so f-ing elite and own everyone so hard that I will sign my HLS exams with “HTH FUCKER!” The professor will recognize that this is the mark of the truly elite and will award me additional points.

4. I am emulated everywhere I go, as you fuckers insist on obsessing endlessly about me. You cannot leave me alone because the shadow from my prestigious cock is bigger than most large buildings. I am so prestigious that people make annual pilgrimages to my old dorm room to give burnt offerings to my eliteness.

5. My family owns a yacht that costs more than you fuckers’ houses. HAHAHAHA FUCKERS! EAT *&^%! HTH

Worship me now! I am a law god. You should be happy that I degraded myself just to talk to you. HTH
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: WOMBAT on March 05, 2005, 01:10:29 PM
This is too funny.

My tenure here at LSD is almost up. I am tired of, ironically, all of the anecdotal bull$hit and awful advice. I am proof that anything can be accomplished.

This can become a real-life experiment. Someone with a LSAT score of 175+ can post and we can return in 4 years and see how everyone is doing. It will be then that you can draw conclusions regarding my low LSAT score.

I guarantee that I can go further than some of you high flyers... hell, I already have.

Now taking applications!!!
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: blondielaw on March 05, 2005, 01:13:42 PM
I sincerely hope that previous post was a joke.  If not- WOW.  
What a jackass.  I don't think I've ever heard someone admit to being that much of an ignorant A-hole.
Don't bother responding back with another infantile tirade, I'll just ignore it.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: mabelgunther on March 06, 2005, 12:51:33 AM
i would also say this: the lsat is a predictor of success of first-year law students
casino

As with anything, there are exceptions.  Sometimes those that score below 150 on the LSAT do exceptionally well on their 1L exams and in law school in general.  I know of one who went to a top-10 school approximately five years ago and she got almost exclusively A's, including in her first year courses.

Some of your performance will also have to do with confidence and focus.  There are always people who will freak out and perform poorly on the law school exams, including those with higher LSATs.

The LSAT does not test your writing ability, which will be an important factor in law school.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: midjeep on March 06, 2005, 12:43:44 PM
RETAKE RETAKE RETAKE !!!!
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I was in the exact same position as all of y'all. I had a 150 LSAT and a 3.76 GPA and thought that I was doomed to 4th tier or no law school at all (although a fourth tier does not always spell D-O-O-M, but it is really in the eye of the beholder). I worked my butt off in undergrad to keep my grades up, to work full time, and to keep myself busy with extra-curricular organizations....then I received my score and all plans to attend law school fell apart. I only applied to tier one and high tier two schools (yes denial is a female dog) thinking that I could be one of those four students on the grid that had a 150 or less. Alas it did not happen and I would have to reapply the next year if I wanted to go to law school. I still would not let my score determine what school I was "good for" and decided to retake the dreaded test. Like most on here, I REALLY did not want to go through the whole ordeal all over again: the studying, the practice tests, the anxhiety, the constant views on the LSD LSAT discussion board, or the 1200 dollar prep class. I decided that law school was important enough and my desire was strong enough to make me "suck it up" and retest. I took a prep class, I purchased prep tests, and I bought more LSAT study aids. At first my score stayed the same, then started going down (for at least 2 weeks straight), and then eventually started to climb. Questions started making sense, patterns emerged, and I FELT ready. I took the test with a different mindset, became relaxed,  and went into the testing center thinking that I will OWN the LSAT. Well I really didn't "own" the LSAT, but I did improve my score by 8 points and actually felt like law school was within reach. I took the Princeton Review prepclass and, although it didn't improve my score in the sections I really needed help, it did help me in the games section (where I only missed 1 question). I bought the Powerscore book for logical reasoning which ended up improving my score by 5 LSAT points.

Though I had a new score of a 158, my average was only a 154. I really felt that even though my score was initially only 4 point higher, I would be successful the next time around. I used my experience from the previous cycle, both my mistakes and improvements, and reapplied as a totallly different applicant. I had a new job, a new internship, a new personal statement, a "law school oriented resume," a new LSAT, and, most importantly, a new outlook on the whole process. I still applied to more reach schools, but I also made sure to include a target school and safety school I wouldn't mind attending. Well so far I have had a few rejections, I had a few waitlists, I had a few deferrals, but I also had some acceptances (at two schools that rejected me last year). Though not my dream dream school, I didn't truely appreciate these schools until AFTER I was rejected from them.

Just remember to keep your chin up and don't settle for something that you will resent. Law school will be miserable for most and if you attend a school you disdain, it will only compound your resentment and stress. Don't feel like you are unworthy, that things are impossible and life ia all about tiers. Reapply and don't think that just an LSAT in it of itself should determine whether you are destined to be a lawyer. Hard work and determination are equally as important, if not more so, than a 4 hour test.
Title: Re: A thread for LSAT scores below 150
Post by: daisyb on March 06, 2005, 04:55:51 PM
Thank you Shadowcreeper---I am definitely a person who just doesn't do well on these standardized tests, and I absolutely took it seriously.  Someone else has mentioned it somewhere on this board (maybe even in this thread)--any lawyer with class would never run around bragging to everyone what their LSAT score was or where they went to law school.  It's what you learn and what you do with your education and the available opportunities that matter.  I disappointed myself on this Feb LSAT, but I have a couple of acceptances--all tier 4--and I'm just happy knowing that I'm going to be a law student in the fall.