Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Visits, Admit Days, and Open Houses => Topic started by: DC Duck on January 07, 2005, 11:32:20 AM

Title: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 07, 2005, 11:32:20 AM
Im heading out to the North West next week and am meeting with U.W. and Lewis & Clark.  Is there anything that anyone would like me to ask/look for in particular?
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: rogue on January 07, 2005, 03:38:17 PM
I'm interested in both of those schools, especially UW. I'd also be interested to know how well L&C grads fair when they graduate.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: nika22 on January 07, 2005, 03:42:52 PM
could you ask them to admit me? (UW)

thanks in advance
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: LordofLight on January 10, 2005, 09:24:30 AM
On UW: Do they really only start looking at applications on the 15th of January? Surely they must start at least a couple weeks earlier...and when will they start sending out admissions? And will they admit me? And will I go if admitted? (Yes to that last one).

Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 18, 2005, 07:32:11 AM
UW and Lewis & Clark were both very impressive.  It was kinda funny.  while I was waiting to meet with the admissions supervisor at UW, there were to UW undergrad students waiting as well.  One of the them was talking to the other about the law school and started to say that one of her teachers told her a sure fire way to get admitted...then she looked over at me and whispered the rest so I couldn't hear...kinda funny.
Anyway, you cant beat the beauty of Lewis & Clark or the prestige and nice building of UW.
Some notes:
Lewis and Clark grades on a strict 2.85 curve!  Yikes!  That's even more strict than George Mason's 2.9.
I emailed UW today to find out how they grade.  Ill let you know.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: MarkGrace on January 18, 2005, 10:50:30 AM
Hey Duck,
Thanks for the info. Couple questions for you: Have you recieved a decision from L&C yet? I also applied there and I'm still waiting to hear. Did you notice any large difference in the cost of living between Seattle and Portland? I've looked at both cities and Seattle seems more expensive but I'd like to hear your reaction having visited both places. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 18, 2005, 11:03:34 AM
From the look of it, there wasn't a huge difference it cost for Seattle and Portland.  It may be a little cheaper to live IN Portland as opposed to IN seattle, but if you live in any of the suburbs, it seems to be the same, or really close to it.

Lewis & Clark just started classes again today.  They may have started looking at applications today, but have not done so before now.
So, no, I haven't received a decision...but here's hoping!
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: LordofLight on January 18, 2005, 11:07:42 AM
Duck did you find out anything about the number of apps at either of those schools for this year?

Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: Runner-up on January 18, 2005, 11:12:00 AM
I'm always highly skeptical of these "sure-fire" ways of getting into this or that specific school.

In this day and age of intense competition, anyone can fall through the ice, no matter how "sure-fire" their route is.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 18, 2005, 11:22:02 AM
I emailed UW about number of Apps but haven't heard back yet today.
I agree about a "sure fire way"...it was just funny that they didn't want me to know.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: TraciRai on January 19, 2005, 11:12:57 AM
Mark, I'm from Portland, and have family in Seattle.  I would definitely say Portland is the cheaper city to live in.  Portland's housing market is a bit more affordable, and taxes are definitely cheaper...  No sales tax in Oregon!
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: Perversely on January 19, 2005, 01:51:57 PM
I emailed UW about number of Apps but haven't heard back yet today.
I agree about a "sure fire way"...it was just funny that they didn't want me to know.

Hey DC Duck--They don't have the staff that does that function!  I know because I've sent them A LOT of emails last year.  (Note:  I'm still in the pre-law section of this discussion).  If you don't send it to someone specifically in admissions, the email will more than likely just be placed in your file.  I didn't apply there this year.

To answer your question:  the Udub (as we call it) doesn't have a curve.  That's right.  They don't have a freakin' scale.  You get what you deserve, like a freakin' IVY.

Good luck on getting in.  Frankly, I'm surprised they actually saw you in admissions.  You must have been REALLY persistant on speaking with someone in person.  It's an excellent school, but the admin people suck!  They need to hire people, not machines.

L&C, on the otherhand, has a level of prestige and professionalism that should be taught to schools like the Udub.  I was thoroughly impressed with the folks there. It feels like home... And even though they have a tough curve, it's well worth the investment.  And remember:  it's WAY more expensive to live in Seattle than in Portland.

To the person who asked about admissions:  The bulk of the schools in the Pacific Northwest will make most of their decisions around mid to late February/early March.  I have NO IDEA why it takes so long on this end of the world.

Perversely yours,
 
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: Perversely on January 19, 2005, 02:15:10 PM
Mark, I'm from Portland, and have family in Seattle.  I would definitely say Portland is the cheaper city to live in.  Portland's housing market is a bit more affordable, and taxes are definitely cheaper...  No sales tax in Oregon!

What?  Are you kidding me?  It's cheaper to rent an apartment in Portland, but property taxes (if you plan to buy a home) are RIDICULOUS!!!! I looked at buying a home there and the property taxes are double of what I currently pay in a comprable town.  Also, you pay state taxes in Portland....Oh...May be I shouldn't say this since I'm advocating for L&C, but these are two pieces of information that needed clarification.  I don't think, however, most people base their decision on whether or not they are going to a school based on the State's property and state taxes....If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many California law students. :-\

Perversely yours,
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ennuiner on January 19, 2005, 04:59:49 PM
So, I live in Portland, a few thoughts...  Portland is definitely cheaper by degrees and there are a few factors that play into that.  Living in a decent area of Portland is much cheaper than living in a decent area of Seattle, and there really are hardly any bad areas of the city of Portland itself, except for the most ghetto depths of NoPo.  Portland is a much more compact "European" city than Seattle.  You don't really need a car and it's easy to walk from place to place, a real city of neighborhoods.  Seattle is much more spread out and one has to deal with traffic, and I personally feel is not all that attractive of a city on a whole.  But it's bigger, and all that entails.

As for taxes, if that's important, Oregon has higher income and property taxes, but no sales tax.  I don't think it would make too much of a difference if you were a full time student, and is nothing compared to, say, California.  If you are of a libertarian bent and are angered by the Guv'ment taking your hard earned dollar then you can live in Vancouver, Washington and have the best of both worlds, but if you are of a libertarian bent then you probably shouldn't go to either of these schools.  And if you want to live in Vancouver, Washington you should probably get a crack habit too.

If you guys have questions about Portland I'd be happy to answer questions about the City of Roses or anyplace in the northwest.  I spend a lot of time in Seattle, Eugene, etc.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: LawSchoolDreams3 on January 19, 2005, 11:21:24 PM
Washington doesn't have an income tax, probably doesn't matter for most except maybe those with SO considerations maybe.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 21, 2005, 09:12:11 AM
I posted this somewhere else, but just a reminder...

The person I talked to from Admissions at UW contacted me and told me that they were opening applications starting on Tuesday and they estimate they'll have about 2400.

Sounds like the grading system is nice...no complaints.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: A.J on January 21, 2005, 09:15:10 AM
Anybody been accepted to L&C yet?
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: dr_draino on January 21, 2005, 09:17:04 AM
D'you ever skate Burnsides?  Is it as awesome as it looks in video clips?

So, I live in Portland, a few thoughts...  Portland is definitely cheaper by degrees and there are a few factors that play into that.  Living in a decent area of Portland is much cheaper than living in a decent area of Seattle, and there really are hardly any bad areas of the city of Portland itself, except for the most ghetto depths of NoPo.  Portland is a much more compact "European" city than Seattle.  You don't really need a car and it's easy to walk from place to place, a real city of neighborhoods.  Seattle is much more spread out and one has to deal with traffic, and I personally feel is not all that attractive of a city on a whole.  But it's bigger, and all that entails.

As for taxes, if that's important, Oregon has higher income and property taxes, but no sales tax.  I don't think it would make too much of a difference if you were a full time student, and is nothing compared to, say, California.  If you are of a libertarian bent and are angered by the Guv'ment taking your hard earned dollar then you can live in Vancouver, Washington and have the best of both worlds, but if you are of a libertarian bent then you probably shouldn't go to either of these schools.  And if you want to live in Vancouver, Washington you should probably get a crack habit too.

If you guys have questions about Portland I'd be happy to answer questions about the City of Roses or anyplace in the northwest.  I spend a lot of time in Seattle, Eugene, etc.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: foxnewssucks on January 21, 2005, 09:31:09 AM
Anybody been accepted to L&C yet?

no, i think we might start hearing around 2/1
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ennuiner on January 21, 2005, 07:52:47 PM
Yeah, I don't really skate but a friend of mine who's skated around the country said Burnside was one of the best he'd ever been to.  Made by skaters for skaters is my understanding... and it's underneath a bridge.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: TraciRai on January 21, 2005, 09:11:06 PM
ok Perversely, I see your point about the property taxes... but as someone who either lives in my mom's house or rents places, property tax doesn't factor into my world view much. :) 
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 24, 2005, 07:22:11 AM
Well, if last years Law School Numbers are any indications, UW should be sending out a few acceptances this week!  Is that fun stuff or what?!!
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: LordofLight on January 24, 2005, 07:31:03 AM
They had better. My ass is out of patience.

Well, if last years Law School Numbers are any indications, UW should be sending out a few acceptances this week!  Is that fun stuff or what?!!
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ant on January 24, 2005, 10:40:25 AM
This subject has probably been hashed and re-hashed on LSD before but I'll bring it up as I haven't really been here much.

Does anyone have any insight into what stuff UW emphasizes for acceptance (LSAT,GPA,PS, experience). It seems like there numbers are a little out of line with their ranking. Is the rumour about giving the wrong employment data to US news true?

Also, Chiashu  (or however you spell that) gives me like a 50% chance of getting in there, but the grid on their website shows that in my bracket (167/3.62) like 39 out of 45 got in or something. How's that work?

Anyway, I guess I'm just kind of curious if anyone has any interesting insight into the UW admission process as it is my first choice.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: nika22 on January 24, 2005, 11:10:17 AM
Is the rumour about giving the wrong employment data to US news true?


yes, the mistake was outlined on UW law website either last year or the year before- instead of reporting 90some percent job placement 6 months after graduation, accidently reported 70some percent job placement- in the years prior to mistake, UW had been consistently nationally ranked in the 20s

so perhaps that is why admissions appears to be so difficult, given the current ranking?  UW trying to make up for those 10 odd spots it fell in the ranking...

at any rate, i've had a friend with 171/3.4 get rejected, and another with score in low 160s and 3.5 get accepted- so who knows

UW also my first choice, and i'm not optimistic about getting in (although i would lay a brick if that actually  happened)

Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ant on January 24, 2005, 11:36:52 AM
I feel the exact same way. Unbelievable that the 171/3.4 would get the PFO. I really feel like they're gonna give me the boot.

Do you also find that all the info. you get from them is kind of terse? Like most schools send you flowery 'thanks for applying', 'we can't wait to review your file' emails/letters and UW is like 'we've got your stuff, we'll make a decision to admit or deny admission in 6 months and we might let you know about it at some point'. It just seems like they don't make too much effort to sell you on the school or encourage you, you know?
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 24, 2005, 11:58:46 AM
I dont know, i felt pretty good about it when I visited, but your right, the emails leave much to be desired.  They gave me the name and number of someone to call which was nice also (they graduated from the same school as me).
I fear that this might be an all numbers year though since they want to reclaim a top spot in the rankings.  There's probably a bit of a chip on their shoulders.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: nika22 on January 24, 2005, 12:08:01 PM
agreed on the coldness of the emails- in the end though, no matter how you say it, it's the same thing, right?


my cousin who graduated this past spring was asked to be on admissions committee for this cycle (damn him for not taking the position and helping out the family! ;)- he explicitly told me that UW plays a numbers game (on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being unimportant and 10 being important, UW ranks the personal statement a 3, lowest ranking out of any of the top law schools)

but, you never know...(and ps- what does "PFO" mean?)
fingers crossed we all get in :)
(and no need for scholarship, being that it's a state school)
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ant on January 24, 2005, 12:15:05 PM
Tell your cousin he's fired for not jumping all over the admit committee, really very selfish :).

As to what PFO is; when I was doing my undergrad in Canada in business a 'PFO' was the letter you'd receive from an investment banking firm you'd interviewed with telling you to 'Please F(fill in with an expletive beginning with F) Off' (PFO).

I'm kinda surprised that PS is valued so low. If they were playing purely a numbers game you'd think they would have been all over your friend with the 171! I feel more in the dark on my application to UW than anywhere else. Did he say anything about valuing work experience really high or anything?
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: Julie Fern on January 24, 2005, 12:18:11 PM
loved lewis, hated clark.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: LordofLight on January 24, 2005, 12:20:09 PM
I feel in the dark as well. My only wish is that they hurry the @#!* up. I don't want to wait until March for a rejection. It particularly sucks for us state residents..you'd think residency would be more of a factor, since UW is the only state law school in Washington.

Freaking hell.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :o
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ant on January 24, 2005, 12:21:28 PM
Since they do seem to be playing a numbers game, do you feel like you have any insight into what they would consider good numbers? Go beat up your cousin and tell him to find out.

Do you know anything about Seattle U? I have heard from some that in the Seattle job market it is actually viewed pretty highly.

Did your recently graduated cousin have a pretty good time of it in the job market graduating from UW?
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: LordofLight on January 24, 2005, 12:24:32 PM
Seattle University is a good school, and getting better. But it's dang expensive and they've got a very tight grading curve that probably makes for a very competitive environment particularly for the first year.

Since they do seem to be playing a numbers game, do you feel like you have any insight into what they would consider good numbers? Go beat up your cousin and tell him to find out.

Do you know anything about Seattle U? I have heard from some that in the Seattle job market it is actually viewed pretty highly.

Did your recently graduated cousin have a pretty good time of it in the job market graduating from UW?
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: nika22 on January 24, 2005, 12:37:06 PM
with regard to UW...

reluctant to accept people with low gpas (low as being less than 3.5/3.4)

friend who was rejected with 171 told me that UW doesn't like to 'inbreed' (he was uber involved in prelaw society as undergrad at UW, met with law dean on couple occasions, spoke with a lot of advisors, etc- so this could be true, could not, i don't know)

i'll see if cousin has any more insight- oh, and he had a job offer even before graduating, as a patent lawyer, making 140k, paid off loans already, put down payment on house on mercer island...

with regard to Seattle U...

if you're in the top third of class, finding a job appears to be a managable task (other cousin goes there now, with her boyfriend- both say the curve is unforgiving, but no problem for them getting interviews since in top third of class)

nice building and facilities, just about downtown
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ant on January 24, 2005, 12:39:11 PM
I feel in the dark as well. My only wish is that they hurry the #@!* up. I don't want to wait until March for a rejection. It particularly sucks for us state residents..you'd think residency would be more of a factor, since UW is the only state law school in Washington.

Freaking hell.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :o

It is unbelievable that they don't try and get acceptances out sooner. Their whole admissions system seems to be a little off. I'm hoping the Wash. residency makes a difference, but I don't get the sense that it does either.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ant on January 24, 2005, 12:44:24 PM
with regard to UW...

reluctant to accept people with low gpas (low as being less than 3.5/3.4)

friend who was rejected with 171 told me that UW doesn't like to 'inbreed' (he was uber involved in prelaw society as undergrad at UW, met with law dean on couple occasions, spoke with a lot of advisors, etc- so this could be true, could not, i don't know)

i'll see if cousin has any more insight- oh, and he had a job offer even before graduating, as a patent lawyer, making 140k, paid off loans already, put down payment on house on mercer island...

with regard to Seattle U...

if you're in the top third of class, finding a job appears to be a managable task (other cousin goes there now, with her boyfriend- both say the curve is unforgiving, but no problem for them getting interviews since in top third of class)

nice building and facilities, just about downtown

That's sweet about your cousins' job in Seattle. I've been admitted to Cornell but am thinking I would definitely prefer UW because I would rather live/work in Seattle area and the difference in cost is astronomical.

Every cousin in your family is or is going to become a lawyer! The entire Seattle legal scene is going to be run by nika22 & associates. I'll come begging for a job in 3 years for sure!
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: nika22 on January 24, 2005, 12:55:49 PM
haha, well, 2 out of 3 cousins in the US that are lawyers at least

that would be pretty sweet though, nika22&associates...

congrats on cornell, ps (i applied there as an uber reach- but yeah, UW would take precendence over that, and just about any other school i applied to)


(i write about my cousins a lot, and at the risk of starting another sentance with 'my cousin' but....my cousin who got into UW also got into columbia and the boston schools, turned them down to go to UW, and now has paid off all debt while his colleagues at work who went to uchicago etc are in debt)
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ant on January 24, 2005, 01:03:58 PM
haha, well, 2 out of 3 cousins in the US that are lawyers at least

that would be pretty sweet though, nika22&associates...

congrats on cornell, ps (i applied there as an uber reach- but yeah, UW would take precendence over that, and just about any other school i applied to)


(i write about my cousins a lot, and at the rist of starting another sentance with 'my cousin' but....my cousin who got into UW also got into columbia and the boston schools, turned them down to go to UW, and now has paid off all debt while his colleagues at work who went to uchicago etc are in debt)


Your cousin is my new role model (apologies to Superman) (ps-from now on I will begin each post with 'your cousin' so you don't have to feel bad:).

Everyone talks about how many options you have coming out of a T14 school, but to me having a $100,000 chain around your neck really limits the options you have, you know?

Would you say your cousins situation of landing a sweet job was typical of UW grads or exceptional?

Since he is a patent lawyer, was his undergrad engineering or sciences or something?

Maybe we'll both be accepted at cornell and shot down at UW?
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: JackInTheBox on January 29, 2005, 05:17:24 PM
Nika,

should I even ask what happens to the lower 2/3 of class at Seattle U?  I visited there Thursday, and was very impressed with both the facility and students.

Is UW the only "sure bet" school for Seattle?
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 31, 2005, 06:33:42 AM
Looks like someone got into UW!!!!
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: kernelgt on January 31, 2005, 07:07:34 AM
Have any of you heard of anyone from UW getting a job on the east coast, or does pretty much everyone stay in Seattle?  And then you'd think that the non-UW lawyers would feel kind of out of place at a bar meeting.  Anyways, I'm asking not because I necessarily plan on going to the east coast to practice, but because I've never been to PNW, and I would hate to go to school there and find out I had no other options for employment if I decided to live somewhere else.  Ironically, though, that is why I applied to U Washington, not so much for the school (which I know is great), but because I thought the idea of living in Seattle would be awesome.

And I know part of the answer already to this:  really if you go to a T50 school, you can work pretty much anywhere if you're in the top of your class...but some schools, if you're in the middle of the pack or worse, won't help you one iota if you relocate somewhere else.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: DC Duck on January 31, 2005, 07:12:16 AM
When I met with the UW admissions supervisor, she said that UW really focuses on trying to help graduates locate in other areas to "spread the good name".  Im sure the UW name carries well enough but possibly more importantly, the school has a vested interest in helping those who want to work outside of Washington to do so.
Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: ant on January 31, 2005, 08:23:24 AM
Duck: That is encouraging, though I wonder if every admit officer would say it. One positive thing about the rankings drop is that it may motive UW to concentrate on developing their employment office etc.

Title: Re: UW and Lewis & Clark
Post by: kernelgt on February 01, 2005, 12:58:32 AM
When I met with the UW admissions supervisor, she said that UW really focuses on trying to help graduates locate in other areas to "spread the good name".  Im sure the UW name carries well enough but possibly more importantly, the school has a vested interest in helping those who want to work outside of Washington to do so.

That's pretty interesting and good to hear.  Like ant, I'm sure a lot of admissions personnel say that; however, I would tend to agree that perhaps UW actually works harder in this regard.  Two reasons:  It's graduating class is fairly small and most do remain in the area, so it can really put some solid effort into those who want to leave the PNW, and two, they sincerely want to spread the reputation of their school whereas many schools already have the reputation outside of their regions.