Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists => Topic started by: dustoffdax on November 27, 2004, 07:34:49 AM

Title: U Texas Ding
Post by: dustoffdax on November 27, 2004, 07:34:49 AM
Well, this was number two. I guess the texas school system has big love for me.

10 more to go; three reaches, four targets, three safeties.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on November 27, 2004, 07:41:06 AM
How did you get the news?  Mail or Email?
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Javert on November 27, 2004, 07:41:11 AM
Hey, I'm sorry. But hang in there; it's tough getting dings first, but you'll get in at one of your schools. Worst case scenario, that's what the safeties are for...
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: dustoffdax on November 27, 2004, 07:45:14 AM
How did you get the news? Mail or Email?

I checked the status page this morning.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: TheDecline on November 27, 2004, 09:34:47 AM
I got the big ding too.

3.92,163 (non-Texas resident)

I was hoping that they would at least wait a little longer, getting a ding this early is no fun.

 :'(
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: chicago on November 27, 2004, 12:06:28 PM
I got the rejection letter as well. 3.84, 162, non-resident  :-\
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: TheDecline on November 28, 2004, 04:55:06 AM
Yeah, it kind of just slaps you in the face when you update the page.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Trel on November 28, 2004, 05:26:05 AM
So how long did it take for them to ding you? I just checked my page and it just says Current File Status: Your application is complete...received on nov 17th and is being considered for early decision.

I'd like to get my first ding out of the way...at least I assume that's what it'll be. 
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Tom on November 28, 2004, 06:07:46 AM
Hang in there, being a non-resident, you already have two strikes against you.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on November 28, 2004, 08:57:17 AM
Wow!  I guess being a resident v. a non-resident really does make a big difference!  They claim that it doesn't, but considering that yall were rejected with numbers higher than several of the people that were deferred (according to LSNumbers) I am inclined to think that it obviously does matter.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: TheDecline on November 28, 2004, 09:50:47 AM
So how long did it take for them to ding you? I just checked my page and it just says Current File Status: Your application is complete...received on nov 17th and is being considered for early decision.

I'd like to get my first ding out of the way...at least I assume that's what it'll be.

They received my app on Oct 14.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: LawSchoolDreams3 on November 28, 2004, 11:39:40 AM
Javert, are you an Angel fan?
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Javert on November 28, 2004, 01:13:20 PM
Wow! I guess being a resident v. a non-resident really does make a big difference!

The Book of Montauk (206) says that Texas can give no more than 20% of its seats to nonresidents. On that basis, competition for out of state students has to be intense. Given that there were about 1000 acceptances last year, and assuming that the number of out-of-state acceptances is proportionate to the number of non-Texans allowed to attend, only 200 people outside of Texas are going to get in. As such, it's quite possible to be dinged by Texas but get into numerically tougher schools.

OTOH, if you're a Texas resident, you should definitely apply to UT, even with weak stats.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Javert on November 28, 2004, 01:14:41 PM
Javert, are you an Angel fan?

Oops, missed this post. Not to threadjack, but it's a fairly good show. It has flaws, and about half of the 4th season was a complete trainwreck. It's not my favorite show, but it's a good one.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: chicago on November 29, 2004, 07:58:56 AM
Wow!  I guess being a resident v. a non-resident really does make a big difference!  They claim that it doesn't, but considering that yall were rejected with numbers higher than several of the people that were deferred (according to LSNumbers) I am inclined to think that it obviously does matter.

They claim it doesn't make a difference? Montauk's book quotes someone from the UT admissions team saying that it makes a huge difference. I also think they say this on their website.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on November 29, 2004, 02:16:34 PM
Yeah....there was a thread about it on this board a couple of weeks back.  A girl was saying that she went to a forum and talked to an adimssion's person from UT who said that their stats for those accepted instate were very similar to those accepted from out-of-state.  Also, the person pointed out that they can't have more than 20 percent of the actual class be out-of-state but they can accept more out-of-staters (I guess assuming that not all of the out-of-staters will come to UT).  I have no idea of the validity of all of this....The girl who originally made the post might have misinterpreted what the UT person said or maybe the UT person was saying that so as to not discourage out-of-staters from applying.  Who knows?

What is this Montauk book?  What is the name of it?
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on November 29, 2004, 02:48:24 PM
Anybody know of any other books that are worth buying?
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Matokah on December 11, 2004, 09:32:29 PM
Javert, are you an Angel fan?

Oops, missed this post. Not to threadjack, but it's a fairly good show. It has flaws, and about half of the 4th season was a complete trainwreck. It's not my favorite show, but it's a good one.

Not hijacking either per se, but I'm a crazy "Buffy"/"Angel" fan, too.  I just noticed your quote a moment ago.  More into "Buffy", although I was fine with "Angel" until Connor made his way onto the scene.  Blech.  My uncle buys me all the dvd season sets when they come out (it's the only interest we have in common, heh).

And now back to the regularly scheduled thread. . .
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: nekko on December 21, 2004, 02:36:12 PM
dinged at UT-Austin, out of state. Stats/dates on LSN:nekko
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: burghblast on December 21, 2004, 03:26:16 PM
How do you check your status online? I just went to their Web page and couldn't find anything other than the .PDF application.  I mailed my application about two weeks ago and they requested my LSAC report on Friday.  I have not received any mail or e-mail from them yet.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: nekko on December 21, 2004, 03:35:29 PM
I was an early applicant. Not terribly disappointed since I'd choose Michigan over UT-Austin. That being said I've been hearing a lot of great things about UT-Austin and I certainly would have preferred the option of going there.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Texan29 on December 22, 2004, 10:40:46 AM
I was rejected via letter today. Not surprizing in the least, still classified as out of state, I knew I didn't stand a chance, but I'm glad they took my application fee!!!

Oh Well, now on to waiting for the schools that matter to me!!!
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: burghblast on December 22, 2004, 11:32:03 AM
Is anyone else actually looking forward to their UT rejection?  I'm out of state and UT hasn't accepted anyone even remotely near my spot on LSN's graph.  UT was my number 1 choice, even above several T14 schools (Penn, Michigan, Northwestern) because I love Austin.  So I couldn't resist applying, even though I knew I had no shot to begin with.  I feel like once I get my rejection letter I can breathe easy because I can completely put the small, lingering thought that I might somehow slip through the cracks and be mistakenly admitted out of my head.  I am honestly looking forward to my UT rejection.  I hope those fuckers don't  try waitlisting me before they do it...
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: RobinHood on December 24, 2004, 09:20:35 AM
I got the rejection letter as well. 3.84, 162, non-resident  :-\

Shoot, that sucks...I'm sure you'll get in at plenty great places, but out of curiousity, where'd you go undergrad/did you have a lot of EC's and things?
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: interface76 on December 24, 2004, 10:27:14 AM
I got the Texas Ding too....164/3.2/triple major....The director of admissions program at come to my school and he said they accept about 40% of the out of state applications but the competition is a lot more fierce from out of state. If you see LSN, there are people in the 150's who were deferred....in state residents..i guess thats a good thing for Texas residents...:) Hope this info helps
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: burghblast on December 24, 2004, 11:25:50 AM
I got the Texas Ding too....164/3.2/triple major....The director of admissions program at come to my school and he said they accept about 40% of the out of state applications but the competition is a lot more fierce from out of state. If you see LSN, there are people in the 150's who were deferred....in state residents..i guess thats a good thing for Texas residents...:) Hope this info helps

There is no way in hell that Texas accepts 40% of all out of state applicants.  Their overall acceptance rate is only 16%.  Now I'm not sure what percentage of applicants are out-of-state, but I'm sure it's fairly high.  Everybody wants to live in Austin and it's a great school.  For them to accept 40% of out-of-state applicants, they would need to be rejecting 95% of their in-state applicants.  Furthermore, they are required to fill their incoming class with 80% Texas residents.  This makes those numbers seem even more unlikely.  The only way it would be possible for them to accept 40% of their out-of-state applicants is if they only had a couple hundred out-of-state apps.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Javert on December 24, 2004, 11:27:55 AM
Burgh-- In context, I believe the poster meant to say that Texas accepts 40% of their IN-STATE applicants, which sounds about right to me.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: burghblast on December 24, 2004, 11:49:45 AM
Burgh-- In context, I believe the poster meant to say that Texas accepts 40% of their IN-STATE applicants, which sounds about right to me.

That I believe.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on December 28, 2004, 10:30:25 AM
There is no way that Texas takes 40 percent of its in-state applicants!  That is ridiculous.  Every single person that I know (from Texas) that is applying to law school, is applying to UT.  Many of them have numbers that are far from competitive but apply on the off chance that they might be accepted.  That would mean that at least 30 percent of the law school applicants in Texas score a 160+. Texas is a big state with a lot of applicants....I don't know any numbers, but I would be willing to bet that a large majority f the applicants to UT are Texas residents.  I know people who specifically moved to Texas and established residency just for the purpose of going to UT. And, besides, the stats for those accepted in-state and out-of-state are actually pretty similar.  The out-of-staters do have slightly higher stats....but not grossly higher.  According to a quote from Monica Ingram in the Montauk book the LSAT 25/75 in-state range is 160-166 and the LSAT out-of-state range is 161-167.  I'm sure that UT does initially defer instead of outright reject alot of in-state residents just to make sure that they meet their 80 percent of residents quota, but I bet that a lot of those people end up being rejected in the end.  They would have to be!  Otherwise, if they were accepting a bunch of Texas residents with sub-par numbers, UT wouldn't have a median LSAT of 165!
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: for-sure on December 28, 2004, 12:49:03 PM
I agree with you completely!

davidlee741852963@gmail.com
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Jumboshrimps on December 28, 2004, 01:01:53 PM
If you see LSN, there are people in the 150's who were deferred....in state residents..i guess thats a good thing for Texas residents...:) Hope this info helps

That would be me.  ::)
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: midjeep on December 28, 2004, 01:56:49 PM
If you see LSN, there are people in the 150's who were deferred....in state residents..i guess thats a good thing for Texas residents...:) Hope this info helps

That would be me.  ::)

Yeah I am in the same boat. For a while I was the one with the lowest index score that was deferred.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: worried on January 07, 2005, 03:57:00 PM
If it makes anyone here sleep a little easier who is still hoping for UT I was accepted almost immediately with a 166.  Granted, this is higher than their median, but LSN is the most unrepresentative thing I have seen in a while.  I was also accepted to UCLA within a month of applying.  I think I am the lowest LSAT score thus far to be accepted at either on LSN.  If it means anything I am not an URM but I do have a really high GPA.  good luck.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: naifmonger on January 11, 2005, 12:36:25 PM
I too, have been dinged at Texas - while I've been following the board I was superstitious about posting till my first ding. So I commiserate with you all. I fall into the out of state boat. However, I'd pick Georgetown over Texas anyway, and I got in there. So no love lost. My parents, who are in Houston and looked forward to the prospect of nagging me throughout law school, are disappointed.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: cutcut on January 11, 2005, 12:45:02 PM
sorry to hear that, but G-Town will be cool if that's where you end up.

Now the questions: were you deferred then rejected? did you just now hear?
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: burghblast on January 11, 2005, 12:45:40 PM
Yeah, but we want to hear about people with 3.0's or less getting in...

Amen.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: naifmonger on January 12, 2005, 03:16:54 PM
I was flat out rejected, and I heard on Monday. Small, unceremonious envelope with 3 lines of text, starting with 'We are unable to offer you admission at this time.'

I have some interesting/weird stats though. My LSAC GPA was 3.17, LSAT 169. I was one of those switched-out-of-premed-track-but-remained-in-premed-major masochists. I also have unique WE at a high tech company for 2 years.

At least I applied to a billion schools!
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: cutcut on January 12, 2005, 03:26:01 PM
naifmonger, I noticed that you applied really early. Were you deferred, then rejected?

anyway, sorry to hear it. You got G-Town and others on the way, but it's always good to be invited to the party.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: naifmonger on January 12, 2005, 03:44:23 PM
sadly, even though i applied in october i got no deferral/waitlist/hold etc. just a 'sorry. we're just not that into you.'

i sent a modified version of my yale short essay, about my sense of humor regarding muslim culture. i figure it was a big hit at georgetown but can't help but wonder if duke and texas weren't feeling it. i hope at least someone at yale gets a (humorous)kick out of it!

my mom accused me of being happy that i got dinged at texas, only because she'd be only a 2 hour car ride away from incessant nagging. oh well!
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: limonjello on January 28, 2005, 08:38:21 PM
Quote
They don't make any secret of the fact that they go out of their way to recruit Latinos, Mexs, etc. all over Texas.  Unhappy with the Hopwood decision, they went out and hired a black woman to serve as admissions director and a Mexican man as Assistant Admissions Dir.  They're both still there.

Not that I'm that bitter.

Hope you're not going to litigate with argumentation like that.   ;)
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on January 29, 2005, 10:44:03 AM
Got dinged at UT too (last year I was deferred then dinged).  UT can kiss my ass.

I didn't want to bring up the whole AA thing, but when it comes to UT, it always pops into mind.  UT prides itself on admitting as many Hispanics and Blacks as they can.  They've been the #1 law school for Hispanics for several years in a row, and no doubt want to maintain that ranking knowing they'll never move up any further in the national rankings.

They don't make any secret of the fact that they go out of their way to recruit Latinos, Mexs, etc. all over Texas.  Unhappy with the Hopwood decision, they went out and hired a black woman to serve as admissions director and a Mexican man as Assistant Admissions Dir.  They're both still there.

Not that I'm that bitter.  I think it's the wrong law school for me anyway.  And like a previous poster, I have a parent who wanted me to go to UT more than I did.

On that note...I can only speak of one case, but my brother's friend got in to UT Law.  He was a complete jack-off...but he was hispanic.  My brother was shocked that he even got accepted into any law school with his grades and completely shocked to find out he got into UT!  At any rate, he ended up failing out.  By no means am I saying that this is the norm, but I do think that the students who are admitted to a particular school with significantly sub-par numbers will have a harder time succeding at that law school....so maybe UT (or any school for that matter) isn't really doing these students a favor.  Maybe they are actually putting them at a disadvantage by admitting them to a school where they don't have the capabilities of being competitive.  Just a though.   
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: UT law 2008 on January 29, 2005, 02:46:59 PM
Got dinged at UT too (last year I was deferred then dinged).  UT can kiss my ass.

I didn't want to bring up the whole AA thing, but when it comes to UT, it always pops into mind.  UT prides itself on admitting as many Hispanics and Blacks as they can.  They've been the #1 law school for Hispanics for several years in a row, and no doubt want to maintain that ranking knowing they'll never move up any further in the national rankings.

They don't make any secret of the fact that they go out of their way to recruit Latinos, Mexs, etc. all over Texas.  Unhappy with the Hopwood decision, they went out and hired a black woman to serve as admissions director and a Mexican man as Assistant Admissions Dir.  They're both still there.

Not that I'm that bitter.  I think it's the wrong law school for me anyway.  And like a previous poster, I have a parent who wanted me to go to UT more than I did.

I did notice quite a few hispanics on their student orientation committee when I attended the prospective students day last April..it kind of threw me off at first...I mean I have nothing against hispanics and have a lot of hispanic friends but during a Q&A session with students the panel was like 80% hispanics and it didn't make me feel comfortable..I felt that they should've had a more proportionate representation of white/black/asians but I guess the hispanics just happened to be the ones who wanted to do the student orientation thing...but it did make me question what is the % of hispanics at the school...i looked it up and I think it is around 12-13% so I guess that is not overwhelming or anything but still up there if compared to other schools...but anyway Sport...I think if your numbers weren't competitive to begin with then there's only so much you can complain about...and like Eliza said if they are letting in URMs with low numbers and these guys can't cut it then they will fail out or perform miserably...maybe UT will be a little more cautious about letting in URMs who don't deserve admission.

Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Rudy Huckleberry on January 29, 2005, 03:51:04 PM
FWIW, I have a good African-American friend with decent numbers, TX native, really intelligent who was denied at UT.  Wanna trade one anecdote for another???
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on January 29, 2005, 07:30:56 PM
FWIW, I have a good African-American friend with decent numbers, TX native, really intelligent who was denied at UT.  Wanna trade one anecdote for another???

My point wasn't that this guy was hispanic or a "URM"...it was that he was admitted with sub-par numbers and ended up failing out.  My point is that when a school takes a student who is not functioning on the same academic level as the majority of the rest of their students, regardless of the reason, they are doing that student an injustice because they are not setting that student up to be successful. 

I had a professor in a graduate education class that used the term "them that has gets" in reference to this phenomenon.  Students that start out with better study skills, more knowledge or more intellegience learn and achieve exponentially more than the students who start out deficient in any of these areas.   
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: RobinHood on January 31, 2005, 07:15:19 AM
God, all this stuff about UT has really got me disappointed. UT is def. my first choice, but it seems like they admit only people on LSN who seriously excel their standards, and based on this thread, it seems as if they're hellbent on admitting URM's. Plus, the admissions staff is hostile and now there are charges of incompetance against their deans. Of course, much of this may be the stuff of fiction/subjectivity, etc...but it's still kind of dispiriting. Every day that passes and every conversation I have with people there sours me, which sucks...
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: burghblast on January 31, 2005, 07:47:34 AM
God, all this stuff about UT has really got me disappointed. UT is def. my first choice, but it seems like they admit only people on LSN who seriously excel their standards, and based on this thread, it seems as if they're hellbent on admitting URM's. Plus, the admissions staff is hostile and now there are charges of incompetance against their deans. Of course, much of this may be the stuff of fiction/subjectivity, etc...but it's still kind of dispiriting. Every day that passes and every conversation I have with people there sours me, which sucks...

I think it's realistic to have relatively pessimistic hopes for UT.  I would be much more surprised if I got into UT than Northwestern or Michigan, even though they are ranked higher (Not that I give myself even a 30% chance at either).  UT is a great school in an outstanding location.  They probably get as many national applicants as any school in the T14, but their mandate to educate Texas residents drastically restricts the number of out-of-state applicants they can consider.  For someone who doesn't live in Texas, you would be fooling yourself if you thought it was easier to get into UT than any school in the T14 (With the possible excpetions of YHS).
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: fluffysoft on January 31, 2005, 07:34:49 PM
Somehow I got admitted ED out-of-state....white/165/3.86 (in engineering)/good ECs.

Based on LSN and my own acceptance I get the impression UT weighs GPA a little heavily.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: RobinHood on February 01, 2005, 07:43:56 AM
Somehow I got admitted ED out-of-state....white/165/3.86 (in engineering)/good ECs.

Based on LSN and my own acceptance I get the impression UT weighs GPA a little heavily.
In the event that they do, I should be in decent shape, but I've actually heard they REALLY care about LSAT scores...Are you gonna go?
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on February 02, 2005, 06:31:47 PM
I'm pretty sure it was the 3.86 in Engineering.  That seems like a pretty exceptional Engineering GPA.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ccast on February 03, 2005, 09:24:35 AM
UT doesn't arbitrarily "prefer" its own residents, only ensuring it fulfills its prima facie duty as a PUBLIC INSTITUTION to provide qualified attorneys for fellow residents of the state.  i do not disagree with the basic thrust of your argument, but i also don't think you further your argument by playing the "asian quota" conspiracy card.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on February 03, 2005, 03:03:53 PM
they are doing that student an injustice because they are not setting that student up to be successful. 

Funny that the adcomms at UT haven't figured this out. Yet a 0L with one Hispanic acquaintance has all the answers. (Yea, yea, I know. You have friends who are Black and Hispanic, etc. ad nauseam.)

It could be argued that the state of Texas is doing you an injustice by not letting you compete equally in getting admitted with out-of-staters who have superior numbers. Do you think a judge and a jury are going to give your arguments a "few extra points" because you come from Texas? AA is cool when it helps you. Seems hypocritical. Just think of the Asians with superior numbers who are denied admission to professional schools to meet an unspoken quota in order to let you in.


You missed the entire point of my argument.  My argument was not about AA.  I have to wonder if you even read the entire post or if you just cut and pasted one line.  And speaking of which - Please don't take a single line from one of my posts and use it out of context.  When did I specifically make reference to UT or to AA in this post?  I was talking about one guy who happened to have attend UT in the previous post but my general comment was not even about UT.  I specifically stated that anytime (not just in the case of URM status or AA) that a non-competitive student was admitted to a school, the school is doing them an injustice.  This is not just my opinion...do a little research into this phenomenon or spend a little time teaching in a public school and you will find that my assertion is true.  This is the entire purpose of the Head Start & PPCD programs in our public schools!  To allow students who are behind their peers to catch up before they have to start competing with them.  If you would like I can give you the name of one my graduate education professors who has spent the past 55 years studying the phenomenon of (as he jokingly termed it) "them that has gets."  

Furthermore-not that this has anything to do with the argument other than that the one guy that I mentioned as an example of getting into law school with sub-par numbers happened to be Hispanic-but I grew up in Laredo (where I was literally the only white child in my school) & now live in San Antonio, so I do know more than one Hispanic person.  If you have ever been to South Texas or spent any time in some of the bordertowns you of course know that people of Hispanic ethnicities are not "under-represented" in the general population or in any field in this part of the country.  (And I am in no way implying that this is a bad thing)  

And by the way, I don't appreciate your round about way of implying that I got into UT based solely or even primarily on my in-state status.  My LSAT score is above the average for both in-state (25/75 #'s are 160/166) and out-of-state (25/75 #'s are 161/167) admitted students at UT.  I don't know where you are from - I suspect you are not from Texas - but there are several thousand Texas residents who apply to UT Law school every year who do not gain admission.  Texas is a huge state - 26 million residents - and quite a few of them apply to law school every year!  And ask almost any Texan wanting to go to LS and they will tell you that UT is either their top choice or, at least, very high up on their list!

At any rate, that is all I am going to say about that.  I will not argue on the point any longer because I do not have the time or inclination.  You have the right to believe what you want to believe concerning education...and I have the right to believe in what experience has taught me!
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on February 03, 2005, 04:05:15 PM
Abitrary or non-arbitrary preferences have nothing to do with my point. Qualifying only serves to obfuscate. My point is that she is hypocritical to not recognize that she too benefits from some sort of favoritism, which by her own definition is an injustice. Instead of pitying Blacks and Hispanics, some self-pity is called for.

Asian quotas are anecdotal and probably don't apply to a state like Texas, but her statement triggered a visceral reaction.


Do you resort to calling everyone who holds a different opinion than you a hypocrite?  Or insulting their academic performance as you did in the last post???  You know nothing about me.  You know nothing about my life experiences, my work experiences or the reasons that I was accepted to UT Law!  Beyond my UGPA, I also have a 4.0 in a Masters Program. I also had the highest GPA in my major and graduated from my schools Honors Program...not all 3.5's are egual! I was also named the Most Outstanding Student Leader at my undergraduate university out of 14,000 students!   I also have 5+ years of significant work experience working in a field related to the type of law that I want to practice.  I will spare the details of the rest of my resume but maybe my out-of-the classroom experiences have something to do with why I was admitted to UT!  Who knows?  I don't...but neither do you!  And you have no right to imply that I would not have been admitted had I been out-of-state!  If you spend any time on this board you will notice many people who have been admitted to schools where they have at least one number below the median...Lexy at Yale, BigTex at Michigan, and Ruskie at Boalt.     

Listen, dude, I have no beef with you concerning AA or Asians ot Hispanics or UT or anything.  And I have not said one single thing to personally attack you.  I even allowed you the right to your own opinion!  So why are you personally attacking me?
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: midjeep on February 03, 2005, 04:15:55 PM
Abitrary or non-arbitrary preferences have nothing to do with my point. Qualifying only serves to obfuscate. My point is that she is hypocritical to not recognize that she too benefits from some sort of favoritism, which by her own definition is an injustice. Instead of pitying Blacks and Hispanics, some self-pity is called for.

Asian quotas are anecdotal and probably don't apply to a state like Texas, but her statement triggered a visceral reaction.


Do you resort to calling everyone who holds a different opinion than you a hypocrite?  Or insulting their academic performance as you did in the last post???  You know nothing about me.  You know nothing about my life experiences, my work experiences or the reasons that I was accepted to UT Law!  Beyond my UGPA, I also have a 4.0 in a Masters Program. I also had the highest GPA in my major and graduated from my schools Honors Program...not all 3.5's are egual! I was also named the Most Outstanding Student Leader at my undergraduate university out of 14,000 students!   I also have 5+ years of significant work experience working in a field related to the type of law that I want to practice.  I will spare the details of the rest of my resume but maybe my out-of-the classroom experiences have something to do with why I was admitted to UT!  Who knows?  I don't...but neither do you!  And you have no right to imply that I would not have been admitted had I been out-of-state!  If you spend any time on this board you will notice many people who have been admitted to schools where they have at least one number below the median...Lexy at Yale, BigTex at Michigan, and Ruskie at Boalt.     

Listen, dude, I have no beef with you concerning AA or Asians ot Hispanics or UT or anything.  And I have not said one single thing to personally attack you.  I even allowed you the right to your own opinion!  So why are you personally attacking me?

He/She is just jealous that you got into UT. We all know that you are qualified and deserve to go (regardless of residency).  ;D
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: ElizaB on February 03, 2005, 06:59:20 PM
Thank you very much Midjeep!  That means alot!
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: RobinHood on February 04, 2005, 07:55:42 AM
Dude, there is no question Eliza deserved to get into UT...She is more than qualified enough, and probably more qualified than plenty out-of-staters who're gonna get in...  ;)
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: midjeep on February 04, 2005, 10:25:07 AM
I have been trying to be as clear as possible. I think your statements are hypocritical because you denounce admitting applicants with sub-par numbers, which includes many minorities. Yet, my thesis is that your numbers are below par when compared to those applicants from out of state. I'm not surprised you can't see this. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. Maybe you should think I'm just jealous of you.

I'm not saying this in-state favoritism is a bad thing or that you're a bad person. If you want to see this as a personal attack, then feel free. But I believe no one, including myself, is beyond criticism. Try to think of this as feedback.


Eliza is not in denial about perk or extra star she might have received on her application, but to say that her in-state residency was the sole or majority reason for getting admitted is retarded. Now if everyone who scored a 180 and had a 4.0 with a ton of extras were getting rejected because they were out of state, then yes, I and even Eliza would agree that she benefited from some form of AA. However, her numbers alone are strong enough to get into UT alone, regardless of residency. Out of state applicants who had a bit above her stats that were rejected probably didn't bring much else with their application.

The point that Eliza was making is that many schools are doing students a disservice by admitting them when their stats are soooo far below the median and even bottom 25%, and I agree (but if I do get into UT I really don't mind eating these words right now ;D). After going through this application process, I realize that a lot of these posters can get a bit "elitist" when they discuss the merits of an applicant's numbers versus their rights at a top law school, but for the most part I agree. Though I do get disappointed when I get rejected to a reach school, I now sit back thinking "I really don't belong." As much as I hate agreeing with many on this board, the LSAT combined with the GPA should really determine your law school placement. By admitting a student based on race to simply spice up your admissions pool (especially when the numbers are waaay below the median or even the average). Now we all know that being a Texas resident is not going to hurt your chances at getting into UT, but to say that someone who happens to be Texan, got admitted to a school where his or her numbers are above or at the median for both instate and out-of-state candidates isn't really valid. If you disagree with Eliza, thats one thing, but to attack her application and acceptance into UT for the sake of "pointing out that she is being hypocritical," is quite another. If you remember from the LSAT, ad honemin attacks are considered flaws in the argument.
Title: Re: U Texas Ding
Post by: Anastasia on February 04, 2005, 10:55:39 AM
ElizaB,

Your numbers and soft factors make you an excellent candidate for UT regardless of in state/out state or what others have said.  Congrats to you! Be happy with the acceptance and don't let it get you down.

As long as Midjeep is pointing out LSAT flaws though I will say there, if I am interpreting what you stated correctly, there seems to be a little correlation/causation confusion between

THIS
“I do think that the students who are admitted to a particular school with significantly sub-par numbers will have a harder time succeding at that law school....so maybe UT (or any school for that matter) isn't really doing these students a favor.”

AND

THIS
“My point is that when a school takes a student who is not functioning on the same academic level as the majority of the rest of their students, regardless of the reason, they are doing that student an injustice because they are not setting that student up to be successful. 

I had a professor in a graduate education class that used the term "them that has gets" in reference to this phenomenon.  Students that start out with better study skills, more knowledge or more intellegience learn and achieve exponentially more than the students who start out deficient in any of these areas. “

Someone can have better study skills, more knowledge/intelligence and still for a variety of reasons end up with lower numbers in the GPA/LSAT department.  Those students may not necessarily have a more difficult time at law school.  As far as admissions are concerned though, the greatest indicator they can rely on is GPA & LSAT which is why those factors do carry such a great weight, but these indicators are not always correct in every case.