Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: shortee19 on April 06, 2004, 12:29:26 PM

Title: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 06, 2004, 12:29:26 PM
I need help in deciding between Chapman and Whittier.
Chapman offered 50% scholarship, Whittier offered 100%.
what would you do?

also, is it true that chapman's teaching method is more theoretical, while whittier's is more practical?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 06, 2004, 12:58:23 PM
Go with Chapman, I am very concerned about Whittier's DISMAL bar passage rate
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: andywp8 on April 06, 2004, 01:06:43 PM
i agree, go to chapman.

whittier's bar passage rate is deplorable, something like 38%.  Whittier also cuts as much as 30% of the class after 1L and 2L years.  Meaning that 38% bar passage rate is for the the remaining 70% of students who don't fail out.

Chapman has money that they are willing to spend, and seems to be headed in the right direction.

you will still need to work really hard to get a top job, probably top 5% of your class.

good luck
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 06, 2004, 04:55:23 PM
y do u think chapman dropped from tier 3 to tier 4 this year? i heard its bar passage rates dropped from 70 to 50% so thats probably why.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 06, 2004, 05:08:31 PM
Yea that, and they  never deserved to be in the 3rd tier in the first place
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 06, 2004, 05:24:32 PM
Yea that, and they  never deserved to be in the 3rd tier in the first place

lol, well if they didnt deserve to be in Tier 3, then what makes them better than whittier? just their bar passage rate?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 06, 2004, 05:40:18 PM
pretty much. They both seem to have pretty decent employment numbers after 9 months, but those numbers are pretty deceiving.  They are the only two law schools in Orange County (ABA approved, since Western's gonna lose it), so that might be the only thing going for those schools. Whittier's in a pretty nice area, don't know about Chapman
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: jas9999 on April 06, 2004, 06:25:43 PM
chapman's in a nice, though very conservative area. my brother did his undergrad there, and a year after gulf 1 was over, they still had 'welcome home troops' banners hanging around orange. the undergrads there aren't the most impressive in the world, to say the least. they didn't have the law school yet when he was there, so i know nothing about that...

santa ana is nearby, though, and that's not too nice an area.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: princess b on April 06, 2004, 07:03:25 PM
chapman, like UNLV, is a farily new law school. however, unlike UNLV (the only law school in vegas), the competition chapman faces is high. this being said, it's pretty remarkable that chapman is accredited within a pretty short time. i was told the reason chapman is tier 4 this year is because while they over-enrolled last year, they didn't bother to hire new professors. as a result of this, most of the classes are filled and the rumor is some students even have to sit on the floor. but i guess if there are that many students enrolling in this school (instead of all other CA schools, taken they were accepted), the school shouldn't be that bad after all.

chapman is near disneyland, but i guess most law students don't have time to go there. south coast plaza is near there if you are into shopping. the block is nearby, which is a popular hang out place for UCI and CAL F students. if you are into sports, the edison field (or stadium) is near there as well.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 06, 2004, 10:54:53 PM
what do u guys think regarding chapman's aspiration to make it into Tier 2 soon? i believed them, until they dropped to Tier 4 this year.

Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 12:10:37 AM
what do u guys think regarding chapman's aspiration to make it into Tier 2 soon? i believed them, until they dropped to Tier 4 this year.


I'd say, put your money where you mouth is
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 07, 2004, 10:20:16 AM

Quote
I'd say, put your money where you mouth is
Quote

what do u mean?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 11:35:09 AM
well their goal was second tier, then they dropped from 3 to 4, so go figure
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 11:43:09 AM
If you wanna know why Chapman is better, go visit both.  Whittier is a postage stamp, Chapman is on a decent sized campus, and has decent resources.  they have actually gotten some graduates into biglaw also.


Yea that, and they  never deserved to be in the 3rd tier in the first place

lol, well if they didnt deserve to be in Tier 3, then what makes them better than whittier? just their bar passage rate?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: dnw2007 on April 07, 2004, 11:58:46 AM
Let's not go so Tier crazy.  Let's visit these schools, assess their faculty quality, student satisfaction, etc before we start dissing law schools.  None of these factors are used figure most rankings, certainly not US News.  To go to law school is an honor, whether it's Boalt, Whittier or Chapman. 
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: princess b on April 07, 2004, 12:00:34 PM
tier 3, tier 4...schools go up and down (just look at syracuse). i think chapman has the potential and the ambition to be in tier 2 (some schools like albany law seems like they don't really care...they have been in tier 3 forever) or else they wouldn't invest so much $ into the school and its facilities.

also whitter doesn't have an undergrad so chapman gives you more resources.

edited: totally agree with dnw2007. personally, i think whether you graduate from a tier 1 or 4 will affect your job search initially. but down the road, its your abilities and knowledge that will matter. maybe a student from tier 4 will take longer to land a big firm job, but if you are good, you will eventually get one. however, even if you have a jd from harvard and you don't know jack, you can get hired by a big firm initially because of the institution that grant you the degree, but eventually, you will be weed out.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 12:03:16 PM
If you want to visit the schools, assess faculty quality, blah blah, and not go tier crazy, then there's no point of posting on this site.  OP is asking for our opinions, and some of our opinions happen to be tier crazy, that's all
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 07, 2004, 12:16:34 PM
Um...Whittier does have a undergraduate program I believe...

www.whittier.edu


Looks like I will be attending this law school since I could not get into Southwestern.  My goal is to obviously transfer but you never know how things will turn out.  Only reason I am dead set on Southwestern is that they have one of the best and most concentrated entertainment law programs out there.  Would any of you recommend going to a better school or trying to transfer into Southwestern if given the opportunity...Lets say you had a choice between one of the UCLA campus' or the more goal specific schools like Southwestern?

Thank you for your time.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 12:18:08 PM
If i had a chance between UCLA (or any UC ) for that matter, and Southwestern, I'd go to the UC in a heartbeat
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: jfbruin on April 07, 2004, 12:27:26 PM
Whittier has an outstanding undergraduate college.  Richard Nixon graduated from there.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 12:39:13 PM
Whittier Law school is a postage stamp in an office park right of the 5 in OC.  It looks like National University... in fact is right across the street from one of NUs 'campuses'
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 07, 2004, 12:52:26 PM
I mean...is it really that bad..christ...Im just saying its still a "law school."  Im not worried that Im going there, in fact, the only thing I am really worried about is that bar passage rate.  I now regret not caring about grades in my undergrad at Syracuse last year, but suffice to say, for the schools that I got into (and I did get into better ones), this one seems perfect for location and near where I want to work.  It's going to be tough to bust out of there, but I figure if I breathe, eat, and sleep law and concentrate to the extent of Scott Turow's "1L", I should be able to transfer out. 

Do any of you think it is possible to transfer out from a 4th tier to a 1st Tier with being in the top 5%?  Just out of curiosity.



Thanks.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 01:03:10 PM
Always go to the best school you can get into man.  Whittier had a 31% bar pass rate last year.  Of course this is of the approximately 65% of 1Ls who matriculated who were still around at graduation.

Im not saying that if you are motivated that you cant get out of there with a degree and an okay job, I just think that going there puts you at an immediate disadvantage.  Personally, I wouldnt take that chance.  You arent me and have different options, but if I could get into Chapman, I would go there over Whittier, and I would go to CalW over Chapman, Southwestern over any of the previous.

I understand that transferring can be done, but you will face some prejudice about where you are transferring from.  If I were you, I would be shooting for being the best in my section.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 01:06:24 PM
Even 5 percent will probably not get the job done, transferring from Whittier to a 1st tier.  I mean even 5 percent at a second tier may not get you into a first tier via transfer
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 07, 2004, 01:13:31 PM
I just really want to know...are all of these facts that you guys are explaining to me from word of mouth or some other resource.  Obviously I am a little nervous about going to a school where the bar passage rate is 37%.  No matter how hard I work, nothing is ever certain of course.  If I got out of a 4th tier like Whittier and even made it into a 3rd Tier like Southwestern I would be happy.  The only reason I am a little hesitant to take into account everything everyone is saying too seriously is the statistics from www.martindale.com and the nalpdirectory.com website.

As for the matriculation rate, I know that 17 percent or so leave for other reasons other than academic.  so the original 37% goes down to 20 or so.  Still not good but at least better than what I thought.

If you had no other choice, would you go there?...just out of curiosity...you guys might actually save me a lot of stress.


Thank you again.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 01:31:55 PM
Of course I'd go there if I had no other choice.  But there are choices available, like retaking the LSAT, getting some work experience, getting a masters first, etc etc
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 07, 2004, 01:42:06 PM
Hahaha..yes those are options...took the LSAT twice...got a score I was happy with...been working at a top firm in Washington DC with a top 5 ranked(through lawyers guides) real estate lawyer..so it is time for me to go now b/c I would like to be young somewhat(I am 22 now) when I get out of school.

I guess I just obviously have my concerns but in the end I know its time to buckle down get serious about learning and not act like I did at Syracuse in my undergrad.  Assuming I bust my ass, and try and beat the grading curve, I would hope some 2nd tier or maybe one 1st tier school would let me in.  After that I believe I would then have go to into overdrive and try to write onto law reviews, make the grades, etc. at that particular school.

If anyone has any other opinions on Whittier, I would appreciate them whether it be first hand accounts or word of mouth now. 


Cant say thanks enough.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: andywp8 on April 07, 2004, 01:47:06 PM
a friend of mines boyfriend went to whittier, and hated it.  He graduated last may and still deosn't have a job. I get the impression however that he was one of those people that didn't realize what he was getting into when he decided to go there.  If you have enough ambition/drive you can transfer or land a high paying job out of whittier, but the deck is stacked pretty heavily against you.  You will have to work your ass off
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 07, 2004, 01:53:47 PM
Just out of curiosity, did he say why he hated it? Was it because of the stigma that youre going to a subpar law school and you know it, or was it the professors and the quality?

Sorry for the massive amounts of questions, but if I am going to go there and be as motivated as I can, any and all info is obviously helpful.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 02:06:35 PM
I have a friend going to UC Irvine.  Her friend also goes to Whittier, and he loves it there, supposedly.  CAn't beat the OC for nice places to live, I guess
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 02:09:29 PM
I decided at the beginning of this game, the only way I would pay for law school is if I get into the top 100.  The only way I would go to whittier would be if THEY paid for it, and even then, I would be searching for other options.

Again, this is just me, but if my only option was Whittier, Id go do something other than law school.




I just really want to know...are all of these facts that you guys are explaining to me from word of mouth or some other resource.  Obviously I am a little nervous about going to a school where the bar passage rate is 37%.  No matter how hard I work, nothing is ever certain of course.  If I got out of a 4th tier like Whittier and even made it into a 3rd Tier like Southwestern I would be happy.  The only reason I am a little hesitant to take into account everything everyone is saying too seriously is the statistics from www.martindale.com and the nalpdirectory.com website.

As for the matriculation rate, I know that 17 percent or so leave for other reasons other than academic.  so the original 37% goes down to 20 or so.  Still not good but at least better than what I thought.

If you had no other choice, would you go there?...just out of curiosity...you guys might actually save me a lot of stress.


Thank you again.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 07, 2004, 02:25:07 PM
That is an interesting response.  Is it because of the location, reputation, or your desire to just go to a top 100 school?


If the school has been around since '76 or whatnot, I would assume that it has to have some credibility and maybe the poor numbers are the fact that it lets in people who want to go to law school at the last minute and find out it is not for them.  Maybe the admittants like me (2.9, 152), go there and get discouraged by the numbers and decide it isnt for them.  I'm not sure but I know if I go there I cant take it for granted because it is my one shot to do something that I enjoy with my life and make something out of it (not necessarily money wise, although it would be nice to get into a beter school and have the advantage of garnering a higher salary.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 02:45:20 PM
for me its a dollars and sense approach.

Law School is expensive.  Even a cheap private is 25k a year, plus another 16-18 to live on.  Best case scenario, without a scholarship, you are talking 120k, with a scholarship 60k.

Im not wealthy.

I know I have to pay that *&^% off.  Odds are if I get in a top 100 and Im top 15-25% of my class, I can earn an income which will allow me to service that debt.

If I go to a t4, my most likely option if I dont transfer out is that I will make 60, IF I can find a job.

I can service 60k in debt on 60k in income...

I can service 120k in debt on 120k in income...

What I CANT do is service 120k in debt on 60k in income or if I dont have a job.

in the top 100, I have a decent shot at the 120, so I can justify a higher debt loand

In the less than top 100, the lower I go, the less of a chance I have of even servicing a 60k debt load.

In that stack, Whittier is very near the bottom, and there is a likely possibility that I will be servicing debt while managing an AM/PM.

I dont like those odds.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 03:04:57 PM
for me its a dollars and sense approach.

Law School is expensive.  Even a cheap private is 25k a year, plus another 16-18 to live on.  Best case scenario, without a scholarship, you are talking 120k, with a scholarship 60k.

Im not wealthy.

I know I have to pay that *&^% off.  Odds are if I get in a top 100 and Im top 15-25% of my class, I can earn an income which will allow me to service that debt.

If I go to a t4, my most likely option if I dont transfer out is that I will make 60, IF I can find a job.

I can service 60k in debt on 60k in income...

I can service 120k in debt on 120k in income...

What I CANT do is service 120k in debt on 60k in income or if I dont have a job.

in the top 100, I have a decent shot at the 120, so I can justify a higher debt loand

In the less than top 100, the lower I go, the less of a chance I have of even servicing a 60k debt load.

In that stack, Whittier is very near the bottom, and there is a likely possibility that I will be servicing debt while managing an AM/PM.

I dont like those odds.

Honestly, I don't know any BAs managing AM/PMs, much less JDs.  So I wouldn't worry too much about that.  EVERYBODY I know that graduated from UCLA (where I go) who have BAs have decent jobs for now.  So you have a BA, you are probably going to be okay.  Now having said that, I will cover some things you should remember if you want to go to Whittier.

I think you got a full ride, not sure.  Let's say you end up going to law school, and you suck.  You study harder than you ever studied, but you still don't get it.  It's possible.  You don't get in top 15-20 percent.  You lose your scholarship, and you've screwed yourself.  You are staring at about 100k in debt if you choose to continue with law school.  Also, don't forget opportunity costs.  My friend who just graduated from college is earning about 30k a year.  Over 3 years, that's 100k you lost in earnings, plus practical job experience.  Total that to the 100k of debt you have, and you've pretty much lost almost 200k of economic cost.  Just THINK of the things you could do with 200K.  I know a guy that started a small business with that amount of money.  He works a load (100 hrs a week sometimes), but he can clear about 90-100k a year, and he's halfway to paying off all his start up costs, after which the business will clear 150-200k for him every year.
That's one small example of what you can do with almost 200k worth of money.  This is what you lose.  What do you get?  A JD from a 4th tier school.  Let's say you didn't distinguish yourself.  Now you are screwed for BIGLAW, so you're looking at maybe 50k if you can get any kind of legal job.  But, uh oh.  You have grads in your region, from UCLA, Loyola, Chapman, USC, Southwestern, Pepperdine, hell even USD and Cal Western- all schools with better reps than Whittier.  The grads from these schools who didn't do as well will also be competing for those 50k jobs.  So your odds aren't looking too good.  You can take the bar and pass, and then what?

Sure you may not work an AM PM, but you might get a job as an Admin or something for 30k a year.  Something you could have done straight out of college.  Hell, even those jobs may not hire you cause you are "overqualified" with that JD.
You could start up a solo practice, or look for fellow law school alum.  But then again,you are going to need start up costs.  Try getting any kind of business loan on top of that 100k of student loans you owe already.  Unlikely.  So you max out the credit cards.  Sure, opening a practice wouldn't cost as much, cause your primary capital is in your head.  But still, you'd need a good 30-50k to survive the 1st year.  You work like a female dog (more even then your BIGLAW counterparts, sadly), to keep your dream alive.  Maybe you'll get enough cases to bring in 50-60k a year.  By this time, you are 4-5 years removed from college.  That 30k job you took as a college grad may be good enough to get you 50-60k by this time. 

You could have taken that 200k of money you lost going to law school and have started a business instead, and you could be clearing a lot more money.

Is this what your future will look like?  Maybe, maybe not.  But it's a fact that this kind of life is much more likely for a Whittier grad than a Harvard grad.  A decent second tier grad would be somewhere in the middle.

So there you go
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 03:27:31 PM
Dude, what makes you think you cant make 30k managing an AM/PM? :)
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 03:29:52 PM
Guess you could, just wouldn't want to do it.  Seriously, the only way you'd be stuck working an AM PM with a BA is if you can't speak English.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 03:32:58 PM
I think that you have been dazzled by academia my friend.  I know people with BAs managing McDonalds, Laundrymats, hell, I know a guy with a BA who is doing data entry for 10 bucks an hour.

Fact is, a liberal arts degree, with the exception of preparing you for grad school is very little preparation for gainful employment.  Its cool to get a BA and be educated, unfortunately, then you need a real skill :)
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 03:34:20 PM
Did these people graduate from a school like UCLA?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 03:36:13 PM
these are UCSD and SDSU grads.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 03:37:53 PM
Well UCSD and SDSU ain't quite UCLA, are they?  ;)
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 03:51:21 PM
Certainly you dont have your head so far up your ass as to think UCLA a better school than UCSD.  Id say they are equal.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: blizzard of ozz on April 07, 2004, 04:04:58 PM
That is an interesting response.  Is it because of the location, reputation, or your desire to just go to a top 100 school?


If the school has been around since '76 or whatnot, I would assume that it has to have some credibility and maybe the poor numbers are the fact that it lets in people who want to go to law school at the last minute and find out it is not for them.  Maybe the admittants like me (2.9, 152), go there and get discouraged by the numbers and decide it isnt for them.  I'm not sure but I know if I go there I cant take it for granted because it is my one shot to do something that I enjoy with my life and make something out of it (not necessarily money wise, although it would be nice to get into a beter school and have the advantage of garnering a higher salary.

Many thanks.

Some 3rd and 4th tier schools (esp. 4th tier) have low curves and very high attrition rates, most T1's do not. Here's why.

A good example of this is a school like CUNY. I think their curve is @2.0, and you need a 2.3 or higher to graduate, so tons of people flunk out (since below a C+ amounts to flunking out in this case). Whereas most 1st tier schools have pretty decent curves (ie Fordham's and NYU's, from what I hear, hovers around a B+) so virtually nobody flunks out.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 04:49:50 PM
Certainly you dont have your head so far up your ass as to think UCLA a better school than UCSD.  Id say they are equal.
Hahaha
That's funny and does not deserve a response.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 04:50:39 PM
Aonghus, did you go to UCSD?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: forthguy on April 07, 2004, 05:05:09 PM
Certainly you dont have your head so far up your ass as to think UCLA a better school than UCSD.  Id say they are equal.
Hahaha
That's funny and does not deserve a response.

Well, since everyone here's so fussy about US News rankings, US News puts UCSD a mere 6 spots under UCLA.  That seems pretty equal to me.

Greg
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 05:08:11 PM
Yea, and CAL-Berkeley is a MERE 5 spots ahead of UCLA.  Do I go around saying UCLA and CAL are equal?  No.  The UCs have a definite pecking order, with CAL at the top, UCLA next, and then UCSD.  Riverside at the bottom.  If you do not go to CAL, UCLA, UCSD, you wouldn't quite understand the UC rivalry.  ;)
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 05:09:42 PM
Quite frankly, nobody really gives a *&^%.  I did not appreciate Aonghus' comment about my head being up my ass, which was totally uncalled for.  But this is not a forum for debating the merits of the UCs.  Let's debate the merits of the UC law schools if we must, instead.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: forthguy on April 07, 2004, 05:17:46 PM
Yea, and CAL-Berkeley is a MERE 5 spots ahead of UCLA.  Do I go around saying UCLA and CAL are equal?  No.  The UCs have a definite pecking order, with CAL at the top, UCLA next, and then UCSD.  Riverside at the bottom.  If you do not go to CAL, UCLA, UCSD, you wouldn't quite understand the UC rivalry.  ;)

Perhaps it's more that I wouldn't care than that I wouldn't understand. :) 

Greg
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 05:19:26 PM
So I'm guessing you go to one of the UCs
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: princess b on April 07, 2004, 05:25:57 PM
Yea, and CAL-Berkeley is a MERE 5 spots ahead of UCLA.  Do I go around saying UCLA and CAL are equal?  No.  The UCs have a definite pecking order, with CAL at the top, UCLA next, and then UCSD.  Riverside at the bottom.  If you do not go to CAL, UCLA, UCSD, you wouldn't quite understand the UC rivalry.  ;)

i certainly don't agree with you. i got my bs and ms from ucla but i cerntainly don't think its any better than sd or riverside. i have met tons of smart ppl from these two schools. it really depends on what you want to study. if you want to study polisci, what go to ucla instead of cal? and if you want to study marine bio, then sd is the place. and if you are into agriculture related area, then you go to davis. all these order and ranking is stupid. you represent the school you go to, not the other way around. just because you go to harvard doesn't mean you are smart and just because you go to cal state fullerton doesn't mean you are stupid.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: forthguy on April 07, 2004, 05:29:18 PM
So I'm guessing you go to one of the UCs

No, no.  Though I do work for UC (not one of the academic institutions, though.)

I've been out of school for about 9 years now, and my undergrad (Carnegie Mellon) tended to feel some competition, mostly with MIT.  Outside of CS (and especially robotics) I don't believe MIT ever felt a lot of pressure from CMU, however. 

As with anything undergrad, it seems pretty clear that several of the UCs have their strengths.  Certainly, I'd want to be at Berkeley for CS or engineering, though I know UCSD's done some excellent CS work over the years, too.  Beyond that, I guess the schools all run together for me.  Clearly for others, too, if the rankings put them so close.

Greg
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 05:30:31 PM
Yea, and CAL-Berkeley is a MERE 5 spots ahead of UCLA.  Do I go around saying UCLA and CAL are equal?  No.  The UCs have a definite pecking order, with CAL at the top, UCLA next, and then UCSD.  Riverside at the bottom.  If you do not go to CAL, UCLA, UCSD, you wouldn't quite understand the UC rivalry.  ;)

i certainly don't agree with you. i got my bs and ms from ucla but i cerntainly don't think its any better than sd or riverside. i have met tons of smart ppl from these two schools. it really depends on what you want to study. if you want to study polisci, what go to ucla instead of cal? and if you want to study marine bio, then sd is the place. and if you are into agriculture related area, then you go to davis. all these order and ranking is stupid. you represent the school you go to, not the other way around. just because you go to harvard doesn't mean you are smart and just because you go to cal state fullerton doesn't mean you are stupid.

Smart and stupid are qualitative terms.  I am saying by all quantitative measures, there's an order amongst colleges.  If not, then there's no reason to go to Harvard when everyone could just slack off in High school and go to Cal State Humboldt.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 05:32:47 PM
Anyways, screw all this.  The original post was Chapman vs. Whittier, not UCLA vs. UCSD.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 07, 2004, 07:02:58 PM
i just went to the accepted students luncheon at whittier and they said that whittier was just a point away from making it into Tier 3 this year. anyone else hear this?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 07, 2004, 08:27:35 PM
Hey Shortee9,

I was wondering if you could give me your impressions of the school as it stands now since you most recently went and your thoughts on attending it.  I know I have been asking a lot of questions from the members, but there is a reason.

I have lived on the East Coast for 11 years and if you cant tell, Cali is where I grew up and thats the reason I will be willing to risk going to Whittier just to get there.  For those who have been supplanted on the West for their whole lives, let me tell you, the East Coast doesnt even come close to being as beautiful or exciting a place as the West.  Either way if I could hear anymore opinions on Whittier it would be much appreciated. 


Thanks again.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Revenant on April 07, 2004, 08:31:41 PM
i just went to the accepted students luncheon at whittier and they said that whittier was just a point away from making it into Tier 3 this year. anyone else hear this?

I wouldn't put much weight on that statement.  USNews scores are extremely fickle.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 07, 2004, 08:37:17 PM
Sorry Chosenjin, You got all cocky, so I had to knock you down a notch or two.  And I do believe that if you think UCLA is 'better' than UCSD, then you probably do have your head up your ass, or buried in the sand... pick a metaphor.  SD is by and far a better school for Life Sciences, and they are do a better job than UCLA on quite a few things.  Fact of the matter is, when getting evaluated for Law School, UCLA itself gives the same amount of preference points to ALL UC campuses.

humility is a strength.

Quite frankly, nobody really gives a *&^%.  I did not appreciate Aonghus' comment about my head being up my ass, which was totally uncalled for.  But this is not a forum for debating the merits of the UCs.  Let's debate the merits of the UC law schools if we must, instead.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 08:50:27 PM
Sorry Chosenjin, You got all cocky, so I had to knock you down a notch or two.  And I do believe that if you think UCLA is 'better' than UCSD, then you probably do have your head up your ass, or buried in the sand... pick a metaphor.  SD is by and far a better school for Life Sciences, and they are do a better job than UCLA on quite a few things.  Fact of the matter is, when getting evaluated for Law School, UCLA itself gives the same amount of preference points to ALL UC campuses.

humility is a strength.

Quite frankly, nobody really gives a *&^%.  I did not appreciate Aonghus' comment about my head being up my ass, which was totally uncalled for.  But this is not a forum for debating the merits of the UCs.  Let's debate the merits of the UC law schools if we must, instead.

Thanks Angus.  I'll remember that when you are in the night program at USD and I'm in the day program.  But thanks for the lesson on humility!
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 07, 2004, 08:51:42 PM
Oh btw, you still haven't revealed where you to undergrad, if you didn't go to either UCLA or UCSD, you obviously have your head up your ass for commenting on either school.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 01:10:41 AM
Chosenjin,

Before you start insulting the night program at USD remember something.  If you end up attending USD, you have just dissed it.  I APPLIED to nights, which is why I got my letter before you did, I was not rejected from days, and THEN considered for nights.  We will never know if your criticism has a basis in reality.  As far as where I went to school, its a third tier toilet, but that has nothing to do with my ability to determine that UCSD and UCLA are equal.  I have done my research, so just like I know Loyola and USD are unmeasurably close even though there is an 8 slot gap, I also know that UCLA and UCSD are unmeasurably close over a 6 slot gap, and that UCSD does A LOT of things better than UCLA does.  Anything outside of the top 15 under 10 slots is not a big deal.  Do you have your head up your ass because you had a comment about the difference between USD and Whittier?  Nope, you have done research and there is a major, measurable gap. 

You DO have your head up your ass if you think UCLA is better than UCSD tho.  The difference between the two is so small, only an obviously biased individual would make that call.  Get over yourself, you DO need a humility lesson.

Be careful how far you end up taking this though, you might have to share a building with me for 3 LONG years.  So far I have only suggested that you have an elitist bias that makes you think that you and your school are more than you are...

Your insinuation that I am somehow a lesser mind because I didnt go to UC or because I am going to USD days could be dangerous for your ego if I were to rank higher than you at the end of 1L. 

How humble would you be then, oh graduate of the 'second best UC campus' and admittee to USD days?

That humble pie would take a LONG time to eat...

Sorry Chosenjin, You got all cocky, so I had to knock you down a notch or two.  And I do believe that if you think UCLA is 'better' than UCSD, then you probably do have your head up your ass, or buried in the sand... pick a metaphor.  SD is by and far a better school for Life Sciences, and they are do a better job than UCLA on quite a few things.  Fact of the matter is, when getting evaluated for Law School, UCLA itself gives the same amount of preference points to ALL UC campuses.

humility is a strength.

Quite frankly, nobody really gives a *&^%.  I did not appreciate Aonghus' comment about my head being up my ass, which was totally uncalled for.  But this is not a forum for debating the merits of the UCs.  Let's debate the merits of the UC law schools if we must, instead.

Thanks Angus.  I'll remember that when you are in the night program at USD and I'm in the day program.  But thanks for the lesson on humility!
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 08, 2004, 09:26:53 AM
Any more thoughts on Whittier?



Thanks.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 09:29:34 AM
Chosenjin,

Before you start insulting the night program at USD remember something.  If you end up attending USD, you have just dissed it.  I APPLIED to nights, which is why I got my letter before you did, I was not rejected from days, and THEN considered for nights.  We will never know if your criticism has a basis in reality.  As far as where I went to school, its a third tier toilet, but that has nothing to do with my ability to determine that UCSD and UCLA are equal.  I have done my research, so just like I know Loyola and USD are unmeasurably close even though there is an 8 slot gap, I also know that UCLA and UCSD are unmeasurably close over a 6 slot gap, and that UCSD does A LOT of things better than UCLA does.  Anything outside of the top 15 under 10 slots is not a big deal.  Do you have your head up your ass because you had a comment about the difference between USD and Whittier?  Nope, you have done research and there is a major, measurable gap. 

You DO have your head up your ass if you think UCLA is better than UCSD tho.  The difference between the two is so small, only an obviously biased individual would make that call.  Get over yourself, you DO need a humility lesson.

Be careful how far you end up taking this though, you might have to share a building with me for 3 LONG years.  So far I have only suggested that you have an elitist bias that makes you think that you and your school are more than you are...

Your insinuation that I am somehow a lesser mind because I didnt go to UC or because I am going to USD days could be dangerous for your ego if I were to rank higher than you at the end of 1L. 

How humble would you be then, oh graduate of the 'second best UC campus' and admittee to USD days?

That humble pie would take a LONG time to eat...

Sorry Chosenjin, You got all cocky, so I had to knock you down a notch or two.  And I do believe that if you think UCLA is 'better' than UCSD, then you probably do have your head up your ass, or buried in the sand... pick a metaphor.  SD is by and far a better school for Life Sciences, and they are do a better job than UCLA on quite a few things.  Fact of the matter is, when getting evaluated for Law School, UCLA itself gives the same amount of preference points to ALL UC campuses.

humility is a strength.

Quite frankly, nobody really gives a *&^%.  I did not appreciate Aonghus' comment about my head being up my ass, which was totally uncalled for.  But this is not a forum for debating the merits of the UCs.  Let's debate the merits of the UC law schools if we must, instead.

Thanks Angus.  I'll remember that when you are in the night program at USD and I'm in the day program.  But thanks for the lesson on humility!

Hey Angus, I am wondering...

Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 09:34:00 AM
Any more thoughts on Whittier?



Thanks.

I had a chance to visit Whittier actually, a couple of weeks ago.  It's very small (but then again, it seemed like it was the size of any law school, just imagine it detached from the usual undergrad parent institution it comes with)  Housing around the area is rather pricey (I found two apt complexes about 2 miles away, both had one bedrooms going for about 1100) It's also interesting because it's surrounded by some really nice areas, like Costa Mesa, and some really crummy areas as well, so careful when choosing where to live.  I have heard the library facilities are excellent.

Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 09:36:37 AM
what kinda bite are you looking for?  I'm trying to remind you that we may not always be conversing across the internet...  You don't seem to be taking the opportunity to chill.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 09:42:14 AM
You know Anus, I mean Aonhgus or whatever,

First you insult me by saying I have my head up my ass and then that I need a humility lesson when you were writing all over this board how 4th tiers suck ass and how you'd only go to top 100 schools.  (Interesting considering your numbers would not let you into a top 100 if USD didn't have such joke standards for their evening program).  Then you ridicule me by calling me Chosenjin (which refers to Koreans from North Korea), if you wanted to speak Japanese, the correct term would be Kankokujin (Koreans from South Korea).  OF course, your ignoramus ass from third tier Cal State Nowheresville wouldn't know that.  You like to talk, you like to run your mouth, about hey be careful we are going to share a building for law school (not for the 1st year, remember, you'll be sitting in seats I vacate a few hours prior) and how I'd be so dissapointed if you end up kicking my ass.  Honestly, I am really starting to rethink going to USD if they let scum like you into the school.  It kind of makes me wonder who else is going to end up going there.  You insult me, ridicule me, then make vague threats.  This is all interesting, but if you want respect, bring it a little stronger than that.  I'll ask you again,

Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 10:02:25 AM
I think you do have your head up your ass if you think UCLA is 'better' than UCSD.  Thats my opinion.  You have yours, I have mine.  If you wanna think I have my head up my ass because of a belief I hold that is your opinion too.  You seem to think that UCLA is better than it really is, that is elitist, you need a little humility.  So what.

I call you Chosenjin because you are bringing up your nationality constantly.  I have been to Japan, regardless of whatever you THINK Japanese call South Koreans, in every day conversation they refer to ALL Koreans as 'CHOSENJIN'.  The Japanese generally refer to people differently to their face than they do when they are not in the room.  Not to mention, South Korea as a political entity has only existed for 50 some odd years.

I havent made any threats, so far you have called me ignoramus ass, insulted my school as some third tier Cal State Nowheresville, implied that I couldnt get into the USD day program (not true, I APPLIED to nights), After saying all this *&^%, you SHOULD be humiliated if I do better than you 1st year, and I will remind you of your words every single time I see you.  You very possibly could run into me A LOT in the next 3 years.  Just because you will have classes during the day and mine will be in the evening, doesnt mean we wont run into each other, ever heard of the library? 
And now Im scum?  The dude who spent the last 3 weeks trying to convince your whining ass that you would even get into USD?  Whatever.

I didnt insult you, a called you out on a BS attitude, I didnt ridicule you, you are the one screaming that you are Choson.  If you think the word Chosenjin is an insult, then take it up with the Japanese, Im guessing its similar to the difference between 'American' and 'Citizen of the United States, or 'Canadian'.  You have your panties way too tight.  I haven't made any threats, I just think its interesting that someone who is considering coming to USD is looking to continually ESCALATE an issue.

As far as bite, I have all kinds of it, so far I've been trying to avoid going there because I, unlike you, understand that I might be living with you for a while.  If you cant take criticism of an attitude that you have, you wont go very far.

Id rather you chill the @#!* out, but if you want bite I have plenty.  So I'll ask you again,

What kind of bite are you looking for?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 10:17:00 AM
Anus,

I am kind of confused what my nationality has to do with you calling me by a Japanese term, which is already incorrect.  I know people like you, how they think, what motivates them, blah blah blah.  Quite frankly, I am not better than you because I went to a better school or I got in somewhere and you didn't or whatever.  Your insulting attitutde and you ridiculing show what scum you are.  That's why I'm better than you.  Do you think I really give a rat's ass if I'm gonna run into you at school or not?  Is that supposed to scare me or something?  Get a life.  This is it.  Talk about Whittier and Chapman.   Cause if you're talking like a female dog, I'm gonna slap you like a female dog.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 10:26:25 AM
Look, you are the one wearing Choson on your forehead.  Dont get insulted if someone else uses it.  You dont know me, you dont know you I am, and you have no idea if you can 'slap me like a female dog'.  In the real world, you would be shutting up now, you are getting mighty brave behind a computer screen.  I am suggesting you CHILL.

I didnt insult you, I didnt ridcule you, I called you out on claiming UCLA being better than UCSD.  You are wrong.  SO WHAT?  Now you are going to kick my ass?  LOL, its not going to happen.

Calm down dude.

If you insist on 'slapping me like a female dog', well, I assume youll have the chance to try in August.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 10:35:23 AM
To clarify the bite and bark comment
Anus, I can't believe you want to be a lawyer, making weak ass arguments like you do.  Your UCLA-UCSD argument is based on assumptions and anecdotal evidence.  You ain't going to those schools, you don't know how it is, you didn't go through the admissions process or spend 4 years at either school.  If you go to UCSD, I'd love to debate the merits of each school.  If not, I suggest you shut your mouth.
As far as the Choson thing, once again you rely on one shot anecdotal evidence.  "Uh.. I've been to Japan, and uh... this is what they call Koreans, so this must be right, hahaha"  Such an ignorant attitude.  Once again, you are neither Japanese or Korean, so you don't have a damn clue about either nation or nationality so I suggest you shut your mouth on that too.
So, your arguments, based on assumptions and anecdotal evidence are weak as hell, so you make vague threats.  I'll kick your ass at law school, I'll teach you a lesson in humility, blah blah blah.  Come on, give me a break.  have you noticed I've been quoting RESERVOIR DOGS? a freaking movie!  this is how seriously I take you, and your weak ass arguments and threats.
To me, you are a movie.  Something to laugh at, give me some entertainment, and discard when it's time to get serious.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 10:57:29 AM
Understand something, I dont live in a movie world.  Yes this is a quote from a movie, so what, it is also an invitation to fight.  That and your suggestion that you are going to 'slap me like a female dog' implies violence.  All I can say is, if you intend to bring this into the real world, you will have ample opportunity, I assure you that when faced with reality, you won't act.  Very few do. 

As for my arguments.... whatever.  Like it or not, most Japanese in every day conversation IN JAPAN, in Tokyo and Nagoya, refer to ALL Koreans as Chosenjin.  If you want to take it as an insult, by all means go ahead, I'm tired of trying to reason with you.

For you to say that I am not able to debate wether or not UCLA or UCSD are equal because I do not attend either is fallacious.  In truth, I suggest that the fact that you attend one of them makes you BIASED, which was my point from the start.

I havent made any threats, or assumptions.  As far as anectdotal evidence, this isn't a paper, this is life.  Life IS Anectdotal evidence.

Sounds like you live in the movies.  Im about to be VERY real. After referring to me as an ignoramus from a third tier Cal State Nowheresville who couldnt cut it at USD days, your need to outperform me or be humiliated is no threat, it is reality.
 
Of course if you want to slap me like a female dog, that is an option too.  But I think that is probably one of your movie fantasies.

Let it go.

Or @#!* it, carry it around, what do I care? 

Whiney ass



Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 10:59:27 AM
Understand something, I dont live in a movie world.  Yes this is a quote from a movie, so what, it is also an invitation to fight.  That and your suggestion that you are going to 'slap me like a female dog' implies violence.  All I can say is, if you intend to bring this into the real world, you will have ample opportunity, I assure you that when faced with reality, you won't act.  Very few do. 

As for my arguments.... whatever.  Like it or not, most Japanese in every day conversation IN JAPAN, in Tokyo and Nagoya, refer to ALL Koreans as Chosenjin.  If you want to take it as an insult, by all means go ahead, I'm tired of trying to reason with you.

For you to say that I am not able to debate wether or not UCLA or UCSD are equal because I do not attend either is fallacious.  In truth, I suggest that the fact that you attend one of them makes you BIASED, which was my point from the start.

I havent made any threats, or assumptions.  As far as anectdotal evidence, this isn't a paper, this is life.  Life IS Anectdotal evidence.

Sounds like you live in the movies.  Im about to be VERY real. After referring to me as an ignoramus from a third tier Cal State Nowheresville who couldnt cut it at USD days, your need to outperform me or be humiliated is no threat, it is reality.
 
Of course if you want to slap me like a female dog, that is an option too.  But I think that is probably one of your movie fantasies.

Let it go.

Or @#!* it, carry it around, what do I care? 

Whiney ass





HAHAHAHA, thanks for proving my point. Not a single solid argument.  Good luck in law school!
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 11:01:18 AM
Are you really that immature? 
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 11:03:59 AM
Are you really that immature? 
You are a non-traditional student, which means you have lived longer and have more life experience than me.  You probably have kids, are married, all that good stuff.  And yet you carry on this crap with me, making weak ass arguments, and continuing to insult me, when all you have to do is shut up, and not respond!  Can't you see I am playing with your mind?  Obviously not.  After all that, you wanna ask me if I am immature?  Invest in a mirror.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 11:04:45 AM
with your _____ (insert mind, yours is too miniscule to show up, sorry!)
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 08, 2004, 11:13:58 AM
Hey Shortee9,

I was wondering if you could give me your impressions of the school as it stands now since you most recently went and your thoughts on attending it.  I know I have been asking a lot of questions from the members, but there is a reason.

I have lived on the East Coast for 11 years and if you cant tell, Cali is where I grew up and thats the reason I will be willing to risk going to Whittier just to get there.  For those who have been supplanted on the West for their whole lives, let me tell you, the East Coast doesnt even come close to being as beautiful or exciting a place as the West.  Either way if I could hear anymore opinions on Whittier it would be much appreciated. 


Thanks again.

the campus was nice. its like how another person on this board said...as small as any law school would b if u removed it from its parent-institution. ive heard it has one of the best libraries. it has one mock court, whereas chapman has two really nice ones. all in all, i like chapman's location much better because its in the Circle in Orange (a quaint lil social area), but the school buildings both were pretty much on the same level. oh, whittier has lockers! (tell me that isnt cute). i dont know about housing, someone else would probably know more. its one exit away from south coast plaza. i dont know what else to say.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 11:16:00 AM
I havent made any weak ass arguments. The only argument I have made is that you are biased when it comes to UCLA v UCSD, and I have adequate proof to justify that claim.

So far you have made the assumption that you are free from bad jobs more so than a UCSD grad, because 'UCLA is better'... BS.  I said that you had your head up your ass if you thought that.  God forbid I point out a BS attitude.

Gotten your panties in a bunch because someone called you 'Chosenjin'... All of Japan calls you 'Chosenjin'... so what, oh maybe their is an OFFICIAL term for RoKs, I'm so sorry for not digging out a PC textbook on Nihon/Chosen relations, and instead using the actual spoken language.

Threatened to 'bitchslap' me.

Do I need to repeat all the insults?

You are the one that needs to shut the @#!* up.

You really are that immature.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 11:20:42 AM
To Tier4bound,
I'd have to second everything shortie19 said.  Now as far as wanting the beauty of the West Coast again, you seriously can't go wrong with the OC.  The beach is minutes away.  The area south to that, Laguna Hills, Laguna Niguel, Mission and Alison Viejo, etc etc, are probably the nicest areas in Southern California. It is so beautiful.  Whitter is minutes from South Coast Plaza, which is one of the best malls in California, in my opinion (Fashion Valley in SD gives it a run for its money).  As far as housing, I did mention something, that if you drive out a bit you'll get to those beautiful areas I mentioned, but around that area there can be some crappy parts, so be careful when scouting for homes.  Garden Grove is not that bad, has some decent apts.  Little Saigon is close to Whittier, if you are into that ethnic culture thing. It's a really interesting ethnic enclave, gives a slightly different flavor than your usual Chinatowns you might see in every big city.

I can emphasize this enough- if you are serious about coming out here, come out, and search for an apartment yourself, instead of relying on the internet.  That area is wierd because housing can get really nice then slummy in a hurry, so you should be careful.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 11:23:15 AM
I havent made any weak ass arguments. The only argument I have made is that you are biased when it comes to UCLA v UCSD, and I have adequate proof to justify that claim.

So far you have made the assumption that you are free from bad jobs more so than a UCSD grad, because 'UCLA is better'... BS.  I said that you had your head up your ass if you thought that.  God forbid I point out a BS attitude.

Gotten your panties in a bunch because someone called you 'Chosenjin'... All of Japan calls you 'Chosenjin'... so what, oh maybe their is an OFFICIAL term for RoKs, I'm so sorry for not digging out a PC textbook on Nihon/Chosen relations, and instead using the actual spoken language.

Threatened to 'bitchslap' me.

Do I need to repeat all the insults?

You are the one that needs to shut the @#!* up.

You really are that immature.


Are you really a dad?  An old man?  I am kind of confused, cause the last person that argued with me in the way you do was in 8th grade.  Just making sure.  Anyways Anus, thanks for the entertainment, it was fun.  We seem to be going around in circles, so let's just both shut up.  If you have something good for Tier4bound on Whittier, why don't you share that.  Good luck to you at USD.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 11:25:13 AM
You keep asking me to shut up while insulting me, why not just SHUT THE @#!* UP.

Im done with you.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 11:26:19 AM
You keep asking me to shut up while insulting me, why not just SHUT THE @#!* UP.

Im done with you.
I love how easy it is to get under your skin, haha, it's kind of funny  ;D
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 08, 2004, 11:45:23 AM
Just wanted to say thanks to everybody who responded about Whittier Law School and helped to give me a more descriptive and objective view of the school itself.  I am definitely making my return to the West Coast after 11 years of being stuck on the East Coast.  I even have a custom made shirt that I will probably send a link to for everyone that is interested in seeing it.  On the front it has an outline of the state of California with the words “west coast…” below it.  On the back of the shirt it just says in plain text “…its good to be home.”  (haha) 

I’ve also looked up how many lawyers are employed in the OC and LA area that graduated from Whittier and the number seems to be decent.  I have even made an attempt to email about 20 of them in the hopes that they can ease my fears about going to the school and seeing what they think I should do about getting the most success and enjoyment out of my time there.

Once again, if anybody has any other views on going to a 4th tier law school, Whittier itself, or any other advice on housing, findings jobs, etc.  I would appreciate it tenfold b/c everything you guys say and advise I do take whole-heartedly.  Im not some young little kid, but your comments do make more of an impression that you think.  And lets try to keep the hate on the Haterade board….ahhaa..
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: dnw2007 on April 08, 2004, 11:47:31 AM
thechosen:

You talk alot.  Tell us more about yourself.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 11:51:54 AM
What would you like to know?  ???
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 12:01:21 PM
Well, I guess to start off.. I am a cancer (hold the snide puns), do not enjoy long walks on the beach, like to cook, enjoy sports (especially basketball), and am seeking a true soulmate.   ;D
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 08, 2004, 12:05:17 PM
Just wanted to say thanks to everybody who responded about Whittier Law School and helped to give me a more descriptive and objective view of the school itself.  I am definitely making my return to the West Coast after 11 years of being stuck on the East Coast.  I even have a custom made shirt that I will probably send a link to for everyone that is interested in seeing it.  On the front it has an outline of the state of California with the words “west coast…” below it.  On the back of the shirt it just says in plain text “…its good to be home.”  (haha) 

I’ve also looked up how many lawyers are employed in the OC and LA area that graduated from Whittier and the number seems to be decent.  I have even made an attempt to email about 20 of them in the hopes that they can ease my fears about going to the school and seeing what they think I should do about getting the most success and enjoyment out of my time there.

Once again, if anybody has any other views on going to a 4th tier law school, Whittier itself, or any other advice on housing, findings jobs, etc.  I would appreciate it tenfold b/c everything you guys say and advise I do take whole-heartedly.  Im not some young little kid, but your comments do make more of an impression that you think.  And lets try to keep the hate on the Haterade board….ahhaa..



im still trying to choose between Chapman and Whittier. I would REALLY appreciate it if you tell me where you were able to look up lawyers who have graduated from whittier. it would b good to talk to them. thanks so much!
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 12:08:24 PM
Shortee, try martindale.
http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_result.xml?PG=0&STYPE=N&LNAME=&FNAME=&FN=&CN=&CTY=&STS=&CRY=1&LSCH=whittier

Hope that link works
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: dnw2007 on April 08, 2004, 12:28:50 PM
thechosen:

That lovely!  So what have you accomplished?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 12:47:52 PM
What do you mean, what have I accomplished?  Beyond staying alive for 21 years?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: dnw2007 on April 08, 2004, 01:24:49 PM
thechosen:

You seem to know so much.  Surely someone who knows so much has done something.  Let me help you start: Have you began law school?  Have you graduated from college?  Do you have your own successful business?  Have you supported yourself for a while?  Charity work within the community?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 01:46:43 PM
nope none of that.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: dnw2007 on April 08, 2004, 01:49:38 PM
huh, funny...

so where is all of that knowledge coming from?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: hollywoodude on April 08, 2004, 01:52:16 PM
thechoson is one of those natural gurus. He dont need no expereinces to teach him common sense.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 01:56:16 PM
huh, funny...

so where is all of that knowledge coming from?
Hmm.. well... actually, check that...  I do have accomplishments... let's see..

I was born taller than any baby the doctor could recall
I made it through childhood without getting arrested
I read the most books of any student in my 2nd grade class
I was Most Improved player in little league in 3rd grade
I made honor roll every report card period in 4th grade
I was 2nd in my class in middle school, and still have the trophy to show for it.
I don't smoke or drink after deciding not to
I always manage to stay within my alloted minutes for cell phone usage
I have never cheated on my girlfriends
I scored 12 points in an 8th grade basketball game, tops for that game.

Uhh... I have more... if you would like...
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 01:58:28 PM
thechoson is one of those natural gurus. He dont need no expereinces to teach him common sense.
Guru.. I love that word, thanks hollywood.  Guru!  ;D
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:02:14 PM
I mean, I didn't do that well at school, I haven't held any foreign civil service positions or anything like that, I can't name many foreign dignitaries, I pretty much sucked off of my parents all my life, but hey, who cares, it's not like I want to be President or anything like that, right
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 02:06:42 PM
In case you havent figured it out.  You weren't getting ridiculed and insulted before...

But you are now.

I guess they dont teach sarcasm at UCLA.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:12:02 PM
In case you havent figured it out.  You weren't getting ridiculed and insulted before...

But you are now.

I guess they dont teach sarcasm at UCLA.

Hahaha, just can't stay away can you, Anus.  If you want to go at it again, why don't AIM me or email me or whatever, and we can go at it again, debate whatever you want, I'd love to.  But otherwise, as far as the boards are concerned,  I am through with you.  But us debating on a one-on-one basis is an open invitation, anus, I hope you take it.  Have a great day
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:13:28 PM
In case you havent figured it out.  You weren't getting ridiculed and insulted before...

But you are now.

I guess they dont teach sarcasm at UCLA.
Read how I've been responding.  Yea, I totally can't detect sarcasm, you should teach me Anus.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 02:14:26 PM
Oh and I am through with you too.

I just wanted to make sure you understood what people are saying to you, as you still dont seem to get it.

@#!* you very much.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:15:10 PM
Oh and I am through with you too.

I just wanted to make sure you understood what people are saying to you, as you still dont seem to get it.

@#!* you very much.
Gutless, just as I thought.  Guess you aren't much of a man.  Good luck in law school
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:17:55 PM
Come on, Aonghus.  don't be scared.  Give me a holler.  This is the most fun I've had in a while, taking you to school and busting your balls.  Believe me, talking to you has made me feel a lot better about my chances of at least not being last in the class if I go to USD.
Invitation is still open Anus, AIM- lostintime95. be a man
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 02:20:09 PM
Gutless?  Man you kick around alot of big words for someone hiding behind a computer screen.

Heres a clue, my masculinity is not determined by debate... Im a little more old school than that.  If and when you ever meet me, you will have some small understanding.

I just wanted to make sure you got the hint that all these other fine fellows send you that you are a f-ing big mouthed pencil necked know it all who probably hasnt even sprouted a pube yet.  I have TRIED to no avail to get you to calm the @#!* down, but you insist on throwing around 'fighting words'.

As far as sarcasm goes, I just wanted to help you out, English being your second language and all.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:23:30 PM
Gutless?  Man you kick around alot of big words for someone hiding behind a computer screen.

Heres a clue, my masculinity is not determined by debate... Im a little more old school than that.  If and when you ever meet me, you will have some small understanding.

I just wanted to make sure you got the hint that all these other fine fellows send you that you are a f-ing big mouthed pencil necked know it all who probably hasnt even sprouted a pube yet.  I have TRIED to no avail to get you to calm the @#!* down, but you insist on throwing around 'fighting words'.

As far as sarcasm goes, I just wanted to help you out, English being your second language and all.

Hahaha, Anus, are you PHYSICALLY threatening me?  This is so good... I love this!  Wow, it's so easy to get under your skin it's hilarious.  Yea, English is my second language, and yet you can't come up with anything decent to say to top me, so what does that say about your grasp on the language.  Come on Anus, I can bust you balls all day if you'd like.  Hiding behind a computer screen?  Isn't that what you are doing , too?  Oh by the way, if we ever meet, I'd love for you to phycially threaten me again.  I'd love to get you kicked out of school.  Have fun, Anus
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Aonghus on April 08, 2004, 02:31:28 PM
I believe your english skills arent up to par.

I merely suggested that I dont tie my sense of self worth to debate.  And that if you knew me, this would be obvious.

As for violent innuendo, I think you have the lock on that

'are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite'
'if you are going to act like a female dog, I will slap you like a female dog'

I never once said anything about physically attacking you.  Nor will I.

First you dont see sarcasm that is there, then you see innuendo where none exists.

You really should work on that if you intend to ever step into a court room.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:31:55 PM
You know what Aonghus,
I am sure you are not that bad of a guy.  My invitation is open, if you can debate me intellectually, then go ahead.  As far as your neanderthal chest-thumping, barroom brawling way of "solving things", that 's cool.  To each his own, I ain't like that.  Seriously, good luck to you in law school.

I apologize to everybody else on this board for hijacking this topic.  It's Chapman vs. Whittier, so we'll try to keep it that way.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:33:23 PM
I believe your english skills arent up to par.

I merely suggested that I dont tie my sense of self worth to debate.  And that if you knew me, this would be obvious.

As for violent innuendo, I think you have the lock on that

'are you going to bark all day little doggie, or are you going to bite'
'if you are going to act like a female dog, I will slap you like a female dog'

I never once said anything about physically attacking you.  Nor will I.

First you dont see sarcasm that is there, then you see innuendo where none exists.

You really should work on that if you intend to ever step into a court room.

Of course you aren't going to physically attack me.  Felonies don't look good when you are trying to get admitted to the Bar.  As far as the doggy and slapping stuff, if you haven't seen Reservoir Dogs, you should,  it's a good movie.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: dnw2007 on April 08, 2004, 02:33:52 PM
thechosen:

Can you spell?  I think that the screen name reads "Aonghus".  But maybe I'm just seeing things.  After all, you do know everything.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:34:25 PM
thechosen:

Can you spell?  I think that the screen name reads "Aonghus".  But maybe I'm just seeing things.  After all, you do know everything.

Damn, talk about needing a lesson in sarcasm.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: thechoson on April 08, 2004, 02:35:58 PM
thechosen:

Can you spell?  I think that the screen name reads "Aonghus".  But maybe I'm just seeing things.  After all, you do know everything.
You know DNW, you are getting involved in a situation that doesn't involve you, I have no clue why.  I answered all your earlier "sarcastic" questions honestly.  I have no beef with you, so let's just keep it that way, ok?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: tier4bound on April 08, 2004, 02:41:52 PM
I thought this discussion was about Chapman vs. Whittier.


Anyways, an argument on an internet discussion hardly gets you anywhere but at least it does get some points out.


Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Revenant on April 08, 2004, 04:09:32 PM
I thought this discussion was about Chapman vs. Whittier.


Anyways, an argument on an internet discussion hardly gets you anywhere but at least it does get some points out.

I was wondering how the Chapman vs Whittier thread became 8 pages long, LOL.  Last I checked (less than a day ago), it was only 4 pages.  Thought maybe Chapman and Whittier had been going on a financial aid spree. :)

To anyone going to either of these schools, I would advise choosing whatever path minimizes your debt level.  Chapman/Whittier may not be a top 14 and may not get you a job in BigLaw, but at least your debt level won't force you to only have BigLaw as an option.  I don't know that much about how each school is perceived in the community, but from the possibly inaccurate data USNews provided last year, it seemed the only differences between the two schools were student-faculty ratio (Whittier at 23, Chapman at 15) and admission standards (Chapman had the upper hand here).  Whittier had a lower bar passage rate but that corrolates with the lower admissions standard.  That also seem to have a better reputation than Chapman, but again, this is based on poorly orchestrated reputation surveys on USNews' part.

To the poster who received the full-ride at Whittier and half-ride at Chapman, do try to get the class rank requirement lowered.  If this is possible, re-evaluate the aid packages with the new requirements in mind.  If it is not possible, it might not be that bad an idea to attend Whittier (on the full-ride) and work your butt off for the first year.  After the first year is over, if you don't do well enough, at least you didn't have to shell out much money (there is still an opportunity cost for the full year of work lost though) if you decide not to continue in your law education.  And if you did well enough, you can keep attending for free or maybe even transfer up to a Top 100 school (though transferring would probably mean no financial aid at the new school).  In either case, if you do well, you have options, and if you don't do well, then you have less to lose.  The economy is not that great right now for lawyers, so the road ahead might be long and tough.  Having less debt = more options.  I hope you do really well and keep your head up.  Success is not measured by the amount you earn, but by the person you are.  Best of wishes!
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: shortee19 on April 08, 2004, 04:55:37 PM
"To the poster who received the full-ride at Whittier and half-ride at Chapman, do try to get the class rank requirement lowered"

srcitizen,
how do i get the requirement lowered? im not good at bargaining at all, so how do i go about approaching chapman either to give me more money or whittier to lower their top20% requirement?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Revenant on April 08, 2004, 11:12:11 PM
"To the poster who received the full-ride at Whittier and half-ride at Chapman, do try to get the class rank requirement lowered"

srcitizen,
how do i get the requirement lowered? im not good at bargaining at all, so how do i go about approaching chapman either to give me more money or whittier to lower their top20% requirement?

:)  I'm actually in the same boat you are (in regards to bargaining).  Someone on this board mentioned that it was very possible to do, and I don't doubt it.  However, I think the best leverage is if you have a better package somewhere else or are on the higher end of a school's applicant pool.  In this case, you could try talking to Chapman regarding how you really want to go there but your financial situation is making it hard for you to turn down Whittier's offer.  The problem with this is, if you're like me at all, I wouldn't be able to say that unless I really wanted to go to Chapman.  I'm not sure how you would get Whittier to lower their requirement -- the other dude who suggested it might offer better advice.

I saw this chart thingie on the Deloggio site and it seemed to suggest that Whittier was superior to Chapman, at least in terms of what school draws off what other school's waiting list.  They had Chapman waaaay down at the bottom with Thomas Jefferson of all the West Coast schools.  Then again, the chart thingie looked a bit old, prolly from a couple years back, so the data may be a bit outdated.
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: dnw2007 on April 09, 2004, 10:21:38 AM
thechosen:

You don't want beef?  I suggest that you look at your response to my original reply on this subject. 
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: SpeakerDave on April 09, 2004, 10:50:05 AM
Revenant:  I've combed the Deloggio site, and I can't find the chart you are referring to.  Hook me up with a link, please?
Title: Re: Chapman v. Whittier
Post by: Revenant on April 09, 2004, 12:18:55 PM
Revenant:  I've combed the Deloggio site, and I can't find the chart you are referring to.  Hook me up with a link, please?

Here you go:

http://www.deloggio.com/homepage/faq/hearing/fdchain.htm

Enjoy!