Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: tweety63 on April 01, 2008, 01:48:34 PM

Title: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: tweety63 on April 01, 2008, 01:48:34 PM
alright guys so I have this dilema.  I have been accepted into Rutgers Newark, which I really like and Im in the Minority Student Program.  Its a state school and all in all I will end up with about a $20,000 debt for all three years.  Yet I recently found out that Cornell accepted me but because I didnt think I was going to get in I didnt apply for financial aid, aka no type of grants whatsoever, the end result if I go to this school is over $200,000 debt.  Which school do you think i should go to?  Its basically a question of money over prestige.  Some imput would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: pulvillus on April 01, 2008, 01:54:31 PM
Without more information I would say Cornell. I have no idea how you came up with 200k, as you would have to borrow in excess of the maximum set by the school. Off the top of my head I would say Cornell should run you around 180k, even after inflation.

You might want to think about where you want to practice, what type of law, in what type of firm, etc.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: sstar on April 01, 2008, 02:00:01 PM
alright guys so I have this dilema.  I have been accepted into Rutgers Newark, which I really like and Im in the Minority Student Program.  Its a state school and all in all I will end up with about a $20,000 debt for all three years.  Yet I recently found out that Cornell accepted me but because I didnt think I was going to get in I didnt apply for financial aid, aka no type of grants whatsoever, the end result if I go to this school is over $200,000 debt.  Which school do you think i should go to?  Its basically a question of money over prestige.  Some imput would be greatly appreciated.



hahah. April Fools! You almost got me.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: tweety63 on April 01, 2008, 02:01:57 PM
oh I estimated interest which will accrue with each year. So its a rough estimate.  As for the type of law I have no idea what type of law I want to practice.  But my way of thinking is if you try hard and get high grades and are at the top of your class in a decent t2 school then getting a job should still be no problem right?
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 01, 2008, 02:05:47 PM
Why can't you apply for finaid next year?
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on April 01, 2008, 02:24:00 PM
alright guys so I have this dilema.  I have been accepted into Rutgers Newark, which I really like and Im in the Minority Student Program.  Its a state school and all in all I will end up with about a $20,000 debt for all three years.  Yet I recently found out that Cornell accepted me but because I didnt think I was going to get in I didnt apply for financial aid, aka no type of grants whatsoever, the end result if I go to this school is over $200,000 debt.  Which school do you think i should go to?  Its basically a question of money over prestige.  Some imput would be greatly appreciated.

Why can't you get your info in now?  It's 4/1...so hurry up and submit the need access form and see what happens.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: tweety63 on April 01, 2008, 02:28:19 PM
Well I spoke to the financial aid person and they said I should still fill out the application but its muchhhhhh harder to get grants now since most of the money has already been allocated to people, unless those who were awarded reject the school I dont have much of a chance.  But I suppose I can ask her about the possibility of receiving additional grants next year.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 01, 2008, 02:33:54 PM
Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell.  End of thread.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on April 01, 2008, 02:41:10 PM
Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell.  End of thread.

yea that's y i asked about the forms now.

OP, even if you only get 20/25 k over 3 years, I'd still say Cornell.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: t L on April 01, 2008, 03:40:09 PM
But I suppose I can ask her about the possibility of receiving additional grants next year.

Grants are guaranteed for 3 years at Cornell, so if you don't get any the 1st year, they say that you are pretty much out of luck for the following years.

You still should turn in your financial aid forms to see if they give you anything, but HURRY UP, because the first deposit is due April 15th.  And I'm sure there is more money to go around. 
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 01, 2008, 05:20:53 PM
Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell.  End of thread.


 :D


Yeah, do what they said and see about $ for Cornell.

BTW, I went to Rutgers Newark and there are a couple of Cornell folks in my class at my firm in Manhattan and now we're all at the same place so...it all comes out in the wash I guess.   :P


Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: tweety63 on April 01, 2008, 07:47:02 PM
if what your saying is true then why go to cornell at all.  See if it was columbia or nyu then *&^% why not pay the money but like i said before if you do very well in newark youll get a good job.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 01, 2008, 07:47:49 PM
Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell.  End of thread.


 :D


Yeah, do what they said and see about $ for Cornell.

BTW, I went to Rutgers Newark and there are a couple of Cornell folks in my class at my firm in Manhattan and now we're all at the same place so...it all comes out in the wash I guess.   :P


Lol you know I didn't mean it like that.  Correction:

Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell, unless you can manage to be a supastar like Sands, which is statistically unlikely.  End of thread.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: tweety63 on April 01, 2008, 07:49:48 PM
lmao ;D
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 02, 2008, 11:41:01 AM
Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell.  End of thread.


 :D


Yeah, do what they said and see about $ for Cornell.

BTW, I went to Rutgers Newark and there are a couple of Cornell folks in my class at my firm in Manhattan and now we're all at the same place so...it all comes out in the wash I guess.   :P


Lol you know I didn't mean it like that.  Correction:

Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell, unless you can manage to be a supastar like Sands, which is statistically unlikely.  End of thread.



No I actually agree with you guys who told the OP to see about Cornell and getting some money.  I just wanted the OP to know that Rutgers will also put you into Biglaw if that is your goal.  In fact, in my building there is another Biglaw firm below us and 2 of my classmates from Rutgers work there as well.  But I'm pretty sure that the % of Cornell grads working at large law firms in NY is greater than the % of Rutgers grads, so for that reason that's why I agree with the folks who say look into the money for Cornell.

And don't listen to A, I'm not a superstar.  LOL  I didn't even graduate with honors.  Now there are SOME cats in my class who truly are superstars, graduated with high honors and the whole 9, and they're doing very well for themselves right now - some in biglaw, some in federal clerkships, some even went straight to in-house counsel (which I'm still trying to figure out exactly how that is possible  ??? ). 

Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 02, 2008, 11:51:05 AM
Oh yeah, and one more thing I forgot to mention which I feel is the most important thing to be honest....DEBT.

Man, Debt is a serious thing!  Do you hear me talking to you?  Serious, damnit!   The student loan people just came after me here recently and I've had to start making those payments every month to the tune of $983 per month.  And I graduated with about 1/2 of the debt that my friends from private law schools graduated with.


So, let me be clear, Cornell is great and all, but if you have a clear financial disparity between the two in favor of Rutgers, Cornell ain't worth all that.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 02, 2008, 01:36:10 PM
Although $10-15k/year when you're bringing home $100k isn't that bad.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 02, 2008, 02:36:37 PM
Although $10-15k/year when you're bringing home $100k isn't that bad.

man...it's just one more thing to add to the list of things that you have to end up paying for starting off.  I ran into some of my fellow NY associate folks at a function the other day and it was funny, we're all sitting there talking about the practice and what not, and then somebody asked "ok so is anybody else living check to check or is it just me?"  The whole group threw their arms up like "THANK YOU!  I'M SAYIN!"  Nobody wanted to say it first but we were all thinking it.  My homegirl from Harvard was like "Please, my TV has been sitting on the floor for the past 3 months.  No TV stand!"

Its like, you make "all this money" on paper, yet you're not rich, but you don't wanna say that to your friends and family and outsiders because (i) they'll slap you, (ii) that doensn't make any sense because they know what you make and (iii) you yourself are wondering what the hell is going on.

At least in my case, I know where my money is going - bills, loans, rent and furniture for my new place, CLS courses, registration in NY for my car, my new license, new suits, ties and shoes for work, etc. etc. etc.  I like to call these "Start Up" costs, like when you start a new business because these are all, for the most part, initial fees that I will never have to pay again.  At least not for a long time.   I couldn't very well go without a bed, so I saved up and bought a good one.  Now I got that bed problem covered.  Next I needed a couch, and so on and so on.  And for me, I try to avoid "financing" more crap like tables and mattresses and crap.  I've got 3 credit cards, and that's enough for me.

So starting off is a little tough.  Living in a big city doesn't exactly help either.  After a few months it all starts to balance out though.  You still have some recurring costs and debts but after you've become more established they're not so bad.  (its all relative)


Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 02, 2008, 02:43:56 PM
lol your law school furniture wasn't good enough, huh
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on April 02, 2008, 02:50:52 PM
Although $10-15k/year when you're bringing home $100k isn't that bad.

man...it's just one more thing to add to the list of things that you have to end up paying for starting off.  I ran into some of my fellow NY associate folks at a function the other day and it was funny, we're all sitting there talking about the practice and what not, and then somebody asked "ok so is anybody else living check to check or is it just me?"  The whole group threw their arms up like "THANK YOU!  I'M SAYIN!"  Nobody wanted to say it first but we were all thinking it.  My homegirl from Harvard was like "Please, my TV has been sitting on the floor for the past 3 months.  No TV stand!"

Its like, you make "all this money" on paper, yet you're not rich, but you don't wanna say that to your friends and family and outsiders because (i) they'll slap you, (ii) that doensn't make any sense because they know what you make and (iii) you yourself are wondering what the hell is going on.

At least in my case, I know where my money is going - bills, loans, rent and furniture for my new place, CLS courses, registration in NY for my car, my new license, new suits, ties and shoes for work, etc. etc. etc.  I like to call these "Start Up" costs, like when you start a new business because these are all, for the most part, initial fees that I will never have to pay again.  At least not for a long time.   I couldn't very well go without a bed, so I saved up and bought a good one.  Now I got that bed problem covered.  Next I needed a couch, and so on and so on.  And for me, I try to avoid "financing" more crap like tables and mattresses and crap.  I've got 3 credit cards, and that's enough for me.

So starting off is a little tough.  Living in a big city doesn't exactly help either.  After a few months it all starts to balance out though.  You still have some recurring costs and debts but after you've become more established they're not so bad.  (its all relative)




This is why I'm seriously considering moving back home for a year after school is over. I'd rather not pay rent and save that money for a down payment.  Plus, I wouldn't have to buy furniture, food, all that crap, though of course, I'd give my mom a good bit of money monthly.  But I rather give it to her than some random.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 02, 2008, 02:58:13 PM
lol your law school furniture wasn't good enough, huh

Man WHAT law school furniture?!?

I've had roommates since (and during) undergrad.  I've never owned a couch until about 5 or 6 weeks ago.  LOL  Sad but true.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 02, 2008, 03:02:15 PM
I wish that were the case with me.  But I had to buy furniture last year when I moved out of the dorms (which they subsequently phased out).  Moving in a couple of months is going to be a female dog.  But I guess at least I can gradually replace stuff instead of having to buy everything up front.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 02, 2008, 03:12:03 PM
Although $10-15k/year when you're bringing home $100k isn't that bad.

man...it's just one more thing to add to the list of things that you have to end up paying for starting off.  I ran into some of my fellow NY associate folks at a function the other day and it was funny, we're all sitting there talking about the practice and what not, and then somebody asked "ok so is anybody else living check to check or is it just me?"  The whole group threw their arms up like "THANK YOU!  I'M SAYIN!"  Nobody wanted to say it first but we were all thinking it.  My homegirl from Harvard was like "Please, my TV has been sitting on the floor for the past 3 months.  No TV stand!"

Its like, you make "all this money" on paper, yet you're not rich, but you don't wanna say that to your friends and family and outsiders because (i) they'll slap you, (ii) that doensn't make any sense because they know what you make and (iii) you yourself are wondering what the hell is going on.

At least in my case, I know where my money is going - bills, loans, rent and furniture for my new place, CLS courses, registration in NY for my car, my new license, new suits, ties and shoes for work, etc. etc. etc.  I like to call these "Start Up" costs, like when you start a new business because these are all, for the most part, initial fees that I will never have to pay again.  At least not for a long time.   I couldn't very well go without a bed, so I saved up and bought a good one.  Now I got that bed problem covered.  Next I needed a couch, and so on and so on.  And for me, I try to avoid "financing" more crap like tables and mattresses and crap.  I've got 3 credit cards, and that's enough for me.

So starting off is a little tough.  Living in a big city doesn't exactly help either.  After a few months it all starts to balance out though.  You still have some recurring costs and debts but after you've become more established they're not so bad.  (its all relative)




This is why I'm seriously considering moving back home for a year after school is over. I'd rather not pay rent and save that money for a down payment.  Plus, I wouldn't have to buy furniture, food, all that crap, though of course, I'd give my mom a good bit of money monthly.  But I rather give it to her than some random.


That would be the smart move, in my opinion.  If guys were allowed to live with their moms as grown men (c'mon ladies, you know what I'm talkin about) and my mom lived in the tri-state area, sure, I would have been chillin on her couch with the quickness to do just that.  You should be able to save about $30k inside of 6 months easily without breaking a sweat.  That's enough for a down payment at most spots, even at 10%.  If not, just save a little more and call it a day.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: deedeeleigh on April 02, 2008, 03:28:47 PM


This is why I'm seriously considering moving back home for a year after school is over. I'd rather not pay rent and save that money for a down payment.  Plus, I wouldn't have to buy furniture, food, all that crap, though of course, I'd give my mom a good bit of money monthly.  But I rather give it to her than some random.

This is my Dad's plan for me, though I'd be 30 years old at the time and it just seems wrong. MCB are you not worrying about the commute in? I know my parents place in Bklyn is way the hell down on a slow line, and with the hours NYC firms require...then again, they do give you a towncar to get home every night.

All this talk makes me seriously consider other areas, like Philly and Wilmington.  Why don't more people go to these areas? They pay 145, but the city tax in NYC alone is about or more than 15k a year, so that's a wash, and the COL is so much cheaper.

It's so good to hear from current associates on how the costs work out. It just doesn't seem right to be living paycheck to paycheck and working those crazy hours.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on April 02, 2008, 03:40:38 PM


This is why I'm seriously considering moving back home for a year after school is over. I'd rather not pay rent and save that money for a down payment.  Plus, I wouldn't have to buy furniture, food, all that crap, though of course, I'd give my mom a good bit of money monthly.  But I rather give it to her than some random.

This is my Dad's plan for me, though I'd be 30 years old at the time and it just seems wrong. MCB are you not worrying about the commute in? I know my parents place in Bklyn is way the hell down on a slow line, and with the hours NYC firms require...then again, they do give you a towncar to get home every night.

All this talk makes me seriously consider other areas, like Philly and Wilmington.  Why don't more people go to these areas? They pay 145, but the city tax in NYC alone is about or more than 15k a year, so that's a wash, and the COL is so much cheaper.

It's so good to hear from current associates on how the costs work out. It just doesn't seem right to be living paycheck to paycheck and working those crazy hours.
Yes to the bolded.  But, I worked at a firm around midtown or the lower east or west sides, the commute would be about 45 mins.  Not too bad.  But I could deal with it if it meant that I could pay my loans off quicker and/or save faster for a downpayement on a condo or something.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 02, 2008, 03:57:14 PM


This is why I'm seriously considering moving back home for a year after school is over. I'd rather not pay rent and save that money for a down payment.  Plus, I wouldn't have to buy furniture, food, all that crap, though of course, I'd give my mom a good bit of money monthly.  But I rather give it to her than some random.

This is my Dad's plan for me, though I'd be 30 years old at the time and it just seems wrong. MCB are you not worrying about the commute in? I know my parents place in Bklyn is way the hell down on a slow line, and with the hours NYC firms require...then again, they do give you a towncar to get home every night.

All this talk makes me seriously consider other areas, like Philly and Wilmington.  Why don't more people go to these areas? They pay 145, but the city tax in NYC alone is about or more than 15k a year, so that's a wash, and the COL is so much cheaper.

It's so good to hear from current associates on how the costs work out. It just doesn't seem right to be living paycheck to paycheck and working those crazy hours.

Actually you'll be happy to know it's not quite that bad.

Direct quote from my bi-weekly pay stub:  "New York City Tax  222.74"

So that's about $445 a month, x 12 months = $5,345/yr.

Not quite 15k but bad enough still.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on April 02, 2008, 04:01:13 PM


This is why I'm seriously considering moving back home for a year after school is over. I'd rather not pay rent and save that money for a down payment.  Plus, I wouldn't have to buy furniture, food, all that crap, though of course, I'd give my mom a good bit of money monthly.  But I rather give it to her than some random.

This is my Dad's plan for me, though I'd be 30 years old at the time and it just seems wrong. MCB are you not worrying about the commute in? I know my parents place in Bklyn is way the hell down on a slow line, and with the hours NYC firms require...then again, they do give you a towncar to get home every night.

All this talk makes me seriously consider other areas, like Philly and Wilmington.  Why don't more people go to these areas? They pay 145, but the city tax in NYC alone is about or more than 15k a year, so that's a wash, and the COL is so much cheaper.

It's so good to hear from current associates on how the costs work out. It just doesn't seem right to be living paycheck to paycheck and working those crazy hours.

Actually you'll be happy to know it's not quite that bad.

Direct quote from my bi-weekly pay stub:  "New York City Tax  222.74"

So that's about $445 a month, x 12 months = $5,345/yr.

Not quite 15k but bad enough still.


hell yea that's enough.  ahh well, at least you'll get a good tax return right?

you don't have to be specific, but how badly does the fed tax affect your take home figure?
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 02, 2008, 04:03:34 PM
Why would he get a tax refund?  And if he does get one, he should adjust the next year so that he doesn't get one.  I'm not about giving the gov't interest-free loans.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on April 02, 2008, 04:06:51 PM
Why would he get a tax refund?  And if he does get one, he should adjust the next year so that he doesn't get one.  I'm not about giving the gov't interest-free loans.

i'm thinking in terms of next year.



Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: greenplaid on April 02, 2008, 04:13:14 PM
Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell.  End of thread.


 :D


Yeah, do what they said and see about $ for Cornell.

BTW, I went to Rutgers Newark and there are a couple of Cornell folks in my class at my firm in Manhattan and now we're all at the same place so...it all comes out in the wash I guess.   :P


Lol you know I didn't mean it like that.  Correction:

Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell, unless you can manage to be a supastar like Sands, which is statistically unlikely.  End of thread.

"supastar like Sands"
This is the consensus of the board Burning, Esq. You did and do take care of 'business.'
Hats Off!
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 02, 2008, 04:16:36 PM
I did get a sizeable tax refund this year for the 3 months that I worked in '07.  I agree with A, I try to work it out so that it comes out as close to 0 as possible.  I like to invest my own money on my own behalf, thank you very much Federal Government.


you don't have to be specific, but how badly does the fed tax affect your take home figure?

LOL the Fed takes a nice piece of your check.  It's ok to ask, no worries - I have no problem sharing with you exactly what you'll see for yourself in the very near future.  I wish somebody would have shown me when I was in your shoes.

Direct quotes from the stub:

New York City Tax    $222.74
New York State Tax   $399.27
Medicare Tax         $88.26
Social Security Tax  $377.38
Federal Income Tax   $1,414.03
--------------------------------
 bi-weekly tax = $2,501.68

Monthly Tax = $5,003.36


Also, remember this is just tax.  You still have your health insurance and your 401k which will vary depending on what you want.
 
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 02, 2008, 04:23:17 PM
Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell.  End of thread.


 :D


Yeah, do what they said and see about $ for Cornell.

BTW, I went to Rutgers Newark and there are a couple of Cornell folks in my class at my firm in Manhattan and now we're all at the same place so...it all comes out in the wash I guess.   :P


Lol you know I didn't mean it like that.  Correction:

Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell, unless you can manage to be a supastar like Sands, which is statistically unlikely.  End of thread.

"supastar like Sands"
This is the consensus of the board Burning, Esq. You did and do take care of 'business.'
Hats Off!


Hey well thanks, man.  Just a little luck and a lot of prayer is all.  You guys will all have a MUCH EASIER path than I did I'm quite sure.  I think the title of my life story would be "Doing Things The Hard Way."   :D
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: t L on April 02, 2008, 04:43:10 PM
LOL the Fed takes a nice piece of your check.  It's ok to ask, no worries - I have no problem sharing with you exactly what you'll see for yourself in the very near future.  I wish somebody would have shown me when I was in your shoes.

Direct quotes from the stub:

New York City Tax    $222.74
New York State Tax   $399.27
Medicare Tax         $88.26
Social Security Tax  $377.38
Federal Income Tax   $1,414.03
--------------------------------
 bi-weekly tax = $2,501.68

Monthly Tax = $5,003.36


Also, remember this is just tax.  You still have your health insurance and your 401k which will vary depending on what you want.
 


$60,000 in taxes a year?  :o

And you make market right?  I guess that's not that bad.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 02, 2008, 04:53:55 PM
Alas, it's the price of being an American.  And it will likely go up if Obama wins.  But that's for another thread.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: tweety63 on April 02, 2008, 09:44:25 PM
even though the discussion completely diverged from the topic I learned a lot about law students after law school thank you!
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on April 02, 2008, 09:51:18 PM
law students after law school

failed the bar
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Eugene Young on April 03, 2008, 07:22:20 AM
I did get a sizeable tax refund this year for the 3 months that I worked in '07.  I agree with A, I try to work it out so that it comes out as close to 0 as possible.  I like to invest my own money on my own behalf, thank you very much Federal Government.


you don't have to be specific, but how badly does the fed tax affect your take home figure?

LOL the Fed takes a nice piece of your check.  It's ok to ask, no worries - I have no problem sharing with you exactly what you'll see for yourself in the very near future.  I wish somebody would have shown me when I was in your shoes.

Direct quotes from the stub:

New York City Tax    $222.74
New York State Tax   $399.27
Medicare Tax         $88.26
Social Security Tax  $377.38
Federal Income Tax   $1,414.03
--------------------------------
 bi-weekly tax = $2,501.68

Monthly Tax = $5,003.36


Also, remember this is just tax.  You still have your health insurance and your 401k which will vary depending on what you want.
 


Damn, yo...that's enough tax to turn somebody into a Republican.  :o :D
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: LHL on April 03, 2008, 08:10:29 AM
I did get a sizeable tax refund this year for the 3 months that I worked in '07.  I agree with A, I try to work it out so that it comes out as close to 0 as possible.  I like to invest my own money on my own behalf, thank you very much Federal Government.


you don't have to be specific, but how badly does the fed tax affect your take home figure?

LOL the Fed takes a nice piece of your check.  It's ok to ask, no worries - I have no problem sharing with you exactly what you'll see for yourself in the very near future.  I wish somebody would have shown me when I was in your shoes.

Direct quotes from the stub:

New York City Tax    $222.74
New York State Tax   $399.27
Medicare Tax         $88.26
Social Security Tax  $377.38
Federal Income Tax   $1,414.03
--------------------------------
 bi-weekly tax = $2,501.68

Monthly Tax = $5,003.36


Also, remember this is just tax.  You still have your health insurance and your 401k which will vary depending on what you want.
 


Damn, yo...that's enough tax to turn somebody into a Republican.  :o :D
[/b]


LOL, agree on that one.  But seriously, $60,000 a year is a crapload of money.  That's more than a lot of people actually make in a year.  This actually scares me.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 03, 2008, 11:23:00 AM
Welcome to the real world, folks.  The perks are great, the bills are paid, and you can afford to go out every weekend if you want to, but as you can see, biglaw is not the lottery that it's often made out to be by aspiring law students.  You still can't afford to live like a rock star.  Not yet anyway.  Maybe when you make partner LOL  ;)


And you guys are right, $60k a year in taxes is more than the annual salary that I made as an engineer before law school.  It is pretty wild when you put it in perspective like that.   :P
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: AmericanGunner on April 03, 2008, 02:59:20 PM
The O/P could go to Cornell, then apply for an LRAP through a non-profit, if that's her thing. If she wants to go straight into big law in New York City, Rutgers might not be too bad. NYC people know Rutgers (as evidenced by the Burning Sands.) Big Law anywhere else will require the Cornell name on the C.V.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 03, 2008, 03:24:43 PM
The O/P could go to Cornell, then apply for an LRAP through a non-profit, if that's her thing. If she wants to go straight into big law in New York City, Rutgers might not be too bad. NYC people know Rutgers (as evidenced by the Burning Sands.) Big Law anywhere else will require the Cornell name on the C.V.

agreed
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: jfields32 on April 09, 2008, 11:34:32 PM
Burning Sands, I am currently looking into Rutgers Camden and wanted to know what percentage in your class would be needed for big law? Does being URM help at all(don't think so)?
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 10, 2008, 10:39:09 AM
Burning Sands, I am currently looking into Rutgers Camden and wanted to know what percentage in your class would be needed for big law? Does being URM help at all(don't think so)?

I went to Rutgers Newark so I can't speak too much for Camden, although the two are pretty similar with the key difference being Philly market (Camden) v New York market (Newark).

To give you an idea, we (Newark) had the following out of a class of approx 250 last year:

40% - Law Firms
30% - Clerking
10% - Business
10% - Fed/State/Local Government/Prosecutors
5% - Public Interest
5% - Academia


Like I said, Camden is pretty similar.  They also had a class of about 250 and had the following last year:

40% - Clerking
35% - Law Firms
10% - Business
10% - Fed/State/Local Government/Prosecutors
2% - Public Interest
2% - Academia



As far as URM status and law firms, not so much.  Firms have a pecking order that goes like this:

#1 criteria - Your Connections (if any)
#2 criteria - Your Grades
#3 criteria - Your Law Review status

...[distance]...

#4 criteria - Other Journal status or Moot Court status

...[HUGE GRAND CANYON distance]....


#5 criteria - Everything else (competitions, involvements, URM status, teaching assistant, etc.)



If you don't have those top 3 factors then its pretty much a cold game out there if you're trying to do Biglaw.  They can be pretty snobby about their *&^%.  The irony is, its really not that necessary.  If you're competent enough to graduate from law school and pass the bar then you're competent enough to do the work I see on a daily basis.  The only reason firms get so hung up on all the titles of nobility are for the sake of appearance to the clients. Unfortunately, that's the game we have to play to get here.  Once you're here, nobody cares anymore.  Kinda like your LSAT score after you get into law school.   :P
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Muhammad Ali on April 10, 2008, 02:11:50 PM
bi-weekly tax = $2,501.68

Monthly Tax = $5,003.36


Also, remember this is just tax.  You still have your health insurance and your 401k which will vary depending on what you want.

 :o

That's... unbelievable.  Your mentioning of connections, how's that work?  Can we build them in law school or is that the Good Ol' Boy phenomenon I've been hearing about?  I mean, I don't have any lawyers in my family and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 10, 2008, 03:42:42 PM
bi-weekly tax = $2,501.68

Monthly Tax = $5,003.36


Also, remember this is just tax.  You still have your health insurance and your 401k which will vary depending on what you want.

 :o

That's... unbelievable.  Your mentioning of connections, how's that work?  Can we build them in law school or is that the Good Ol' Boy phenomenon I've been hearing about?  I mean, I don't have any lawyers in my family and I'm sure I'm not alone.


Absolutely you can and should build as many connections as possible in law school!!!   The good ol' boy phenomenon exists at every school, some are worse than others.  The trick is to get one of the good ol' boys to vouch for you and then you are good money.

Connections are everywhere.  You just have to find the right ones.  This is where school placement comes into play.   Your school, in and of itself, can be a "connection" if you're in the so-called "top 14."  In addition, the faculty at Harvard, Yale, NYU, etc. have MAD connections.  So many connections that it just becomes commonplace to send their graduates to XYZ judge or XYZ firm every year.  For the middle tiered schools, the connections are there as well but obviously not in the same quantity as the upper tiered institutions.  Nevertheless, the connections are there all the same.

Regardless of what school or tier you end up at, it has connections.  You need to seek them out and use them to your advantage.  If you go through 3 years of law school and don't have so much as a single professor who knows your name then something is wrong!  In fact, I submit that in that scenario you've missed the whole point of professional school entirely! 


Case in point, I got my job through a series of connections that started with one of my study partners during 1L.  After orientation hit and the dust settled, you could see who the active law students were going to be vs. the ones who were just there for the ride.  The study partner in question and I both joined SBA as 1L's and were cool from there on forward.  He happened to snag a Federal externship with a judge, and when he was done, he put me on for the following semester.  He had done such a good job for the judge that when he gave the judge my name and I went in to interview, my interview took all of 60 seconds.  The judge basically said, "So you know [my boy's name]?  Great.  So when can you start?"   I kid you not.

I got in there the following semester and made sure I handled my business for the judge cause I didn't want to make my buddy look bad for recommending me. Plus the judge was a good guy and somebody who I still talk to till this day for adivce.  Anyway, long story short, I did a good job for the judge, he had a connect with the firm I'm at now which got me in the door for an interview, I made sure I did my thing in the interview and the rest is history.  Although several firms interview at my school every year for OCI, this particular firm did not, so basically my judge got me an interview that I probably could not have gotten otherwise.


All that to say - connections ya'll.  Worth their weight in gold.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: LHL on April 12, 2008, 07:22:20 PM
I have a question that I don't feel merits a whole new thread but might go a little bit with this one.  Would it be stupid to take a full scholly at U of Houston over UT with 1/2 scholarship or even no money?  Thanks to anyone that answers.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on April 12, 2008, 07:34:02 PM
I have a question that I don't feel merits a whole new thread but might go a little bit with this one.  Would it be stupid to take a full scholly at U of Houston over UT with 1/2 scholarship or even no money?  Thanks to anyone that answers.

if UT is giving you a half ride, then yes, it would be stupid.  if UT isn't giving you any money...then, yea, it may still be stupid.

are you trying to practice in texas?
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Muhammad Ali on April 13, 2008, 11:34:31 AM
Burning Sands, thanks for that information, man.  Much appreciated.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: LHL on April 13, 2008, 04:59:00 PM
I have a question that I don't feel merits a whole new thread but might go a little bit with this one.  Would it be stupid to take a full scholly at U of Houston over UT with 1/2 scholarship or even no money?  Thanks to anyone that answers.

if UT is giving you a half ride, then yes, it would be stupid.  if UT isn't giving you any money...then, yea, it may still be stupid.

are you trying to practice in texas?

My preference may change in the future but at the moment, I'm pretty bent on practicing in Texas.  UT did give me 1/2 tuition, it's just that with deposit deadlines approaching, I started freaking out about accummulating debt at UT when I could've gone to a couple of schools for free.  I just didn't wanna make a decision that I'm going to regret.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Special Agent Dana Scully on April 13, 2008, 06:45:28 PM
I have a question that I don't feel merits a whole new thread but might go a little bit with this one.  Would it be stupid to take a full scholly at U of Houston over UT with 1/2 scholarship or even no money?  Thanks to anyone that answers.

if UT is giving you a half ride, then yes, it would be stupid.  if UT isn't giving you any money...then, yea, it may still be stupid.

are you trying to practice in texas?

My preference may change in the future but at the moment, I'm pretty bent on practicing in Texas.  UT did give me 1/2 tuition, it's just that with deposit deadlines approaching, I started freaking out about accummulating debt at UT when I could've gone to a couple of schools for free.  I just didn't wanna make a decision that I'm going to regret.

if there is any possibility that you may change your mind about getting out of Texas, then you should definitely go to UT.  furthermore, even if you end up staying in Texas, the UT name is stronger and firms will dig deeper in the class than they would from UH.

Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on April 14, 2008, 12:59:26 PM
Burning Sands, thanks for that information, man.  Much appreciated.

no doubt. anytime
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: LHL on April 14, 2008, 01:57:27 PM
I have a question that I don't feel merits a whole new thread but might go a little bit with this one.  Would it be stupid to take a full scholly at U of Houston over UT with 1/2 scholarship or even no money?  Thanks to anyone that answers.

if UT is giving you a half ride, then yes, it would be stupid.  if UT isn't giving you any money...then, yea, it may still be stupid.

are you trying to practice in texas?

My preference may change in the future but at the moment, I'm pretty bent on practicing in Texas.  UT did give me 1/2 tuition, it's just that with deposit deadlines approaching, I started freaking out about accummulating debt at UT when I could've gone to a couple of schools for free.  I just didn't wanna make a decision that I'm going to regret.

if there is any possibility that you may change your mind about getting out of Texas, then you should definitely go to UT.  furthermore, even if you end up staying in Texas, the UT name is stronger and firms will dig deeper in the class than they would from UH.



Thanks M.C.B.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Big Law, Esq. on November 24, 2008, 06:18:17 PM
Hi All,

 Unfortunately, often Prestige EQUALS Money. Some Top law firms dont even recruit at many law schools, my firm included. As many have stated, many come from various lawschools and get to law firms...however all lawfirms are not created equal.  If you are trying to get to the TOP BIG NYC firms it is best to go top 10, Ivy League, etc. 

Also, many of us are broke because we live WAY beyond our means :) Starting Salaries at the Top NYC Law firms are 160K, so even with a great deal of debt, if you are prudent and try not to live too lavishly, life is fine. I am third year, with a beautiful two bedroom condo, really nice car, family, along with my law school debt.

Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on November 24, 2008, 06:35:37 PM
a beautiful two bedroom condo, really nice car, family, along with my law school debt.

And you live in NYC?
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 24, 2008, 07:25:37 PM
Starting Salaries at the Top NYC Law firms are 160K



Starting salaries at ALL NYC law firms are 160K, "top" or not.

Some even pay more than that.

The only ones paying less than market are mid-sized firms or small shops/boutiques.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: doubledown on November 24, 2008, 08:22:20 PM
a beautiful two bedroom condo, really nice car, family, along with my law school debt.

And you live in NYC?
No...in Brooklyn New Jersey.
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Big Law, Esq. on November 26, 2008, 11:31:50 AM
Yes I live in NYC. Obviously the first year or two are rough as you are trying to get on your feet, but as a midlevel, making pver 200 and at a firm that pays quality bonuses...there is no reason anyone shouldnt have a "stand" to put their television on. Get a financial planner. They arent expensive and are eager to assist as they want you to purchase their products and services later in life.

And people kept making comments about "New York Law Firms" my point is that all NYC law firms do not start at 160K, which would include the midsize firms others were speaking of. The fact that you can get a law firm job in NYC does is not indictive of the prestige and ability of your school to place their students.
 
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: A. on November 26, 2008, 11:58:43 AM
Law school debt, a two-bedroom condo, a "really nice" car (and all the expenses that go along with it), and a family (private school?) in NYC on a third-year's income?  More power to you!
Title: Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on November 26, 2008, 05:13:07 PM
Mid-level is where it's at.  Mad marketable.  Making good cake.  Ahhhh...the life.  Looking forward to it.