Law School Discussion

Deciding Where to Go => Choosing the Right Law School => Topic started by: imagurl on February 23, 2008, 05:54:02 PM

Title: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: imagurl on February 23, 2008, 05:54:02 PM
Just looking to get some feedback. I have been accepted to NYLS with a $30K scholarship, renewable each year with conditions of course, and am still waiting to hear from Fordham, Brooklyn, and Cardozo.  I don't think I will get much money from those three, since my LSAT was 162.  Any opinions on whether it would be better to pay a lot more if I got into one of the last three since their rep is better, or is NYLS a good deal with the scholarship?  There are so many different opinions about NYLS out there. 
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: PermanentlyOnline on February 23, 2008, 06:00:36 PM
How fixated are you on the NY market? If the answer is very, hold out for Fordham. From what I understand, it is worth it, and keep in mind, you'll be competing with the T-14, and esp. NYU and Columbia, for whom NYC is home base
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: imagurl on February 23, 2008, 06:06:27 PM
I definitely want to stay in NY, as my family and friends are all here.  I am in my late 20's and have 5 years teaching experience, so I am a little bit of an untraditional candidate.  The debt is really weighing on me, Fordham would be fantastic if I got in, but I can't imagine paying for the whole thing.  Being from such a competitive city for law schools is a tough one.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: imagurl on February 23, 2008, 08:18:45 PM
Any other thoughts? 
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: AskMeQuestions on February 24, 2008, 06:07:09 AM
For what it's worth, here is my opinion (I am an "early 1990's" grad from a top-20).  I usually tell people to go to the best law school they can afford.  There are, however, some other things to consider. 

Certainly, the other schools you mentioned have better reputations than NYLS, but one reason for that is that the students are better, which will mean more competition for you. If you end up toward the top of your class at NYLS, you will be fine.  In fact, you will be bettter off than someone in the middle or toward the bottom of the other schools you mentioned.  Sometimes, being a big fish in a small pond isn't so bad.  Also, if some of those conditions regarding the money are that you need to stay within a certain % of the class, going to a lower-ranked school will probably make that a little easier. 

Also, it is pretty hard to turn down $90,000.  That freedom will allow you to take a different type of job (if you don't want to work in a big firm), and it will make law school and finding a job a lot less stressful.  Also, while your friends will be sacrificing certain luxuries and/or necessities because they are paying off their debts for the next ten or fifteen years, you won't have to.

Last two thoughts - (1) I do not know the deans at the other law schools, but NYLS's dean is very good, and he has a lot of very good ideas for what a law school should be.  (2) Reagardless of where you go, if you do well, you will be able to find a good job (assuming you have some social skills and come across okay on an interview).

Good luck.           
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: imagurl on February 24, 2008, 06:52:22 AM
Thank you so much to the people who replied...your contribution is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: Quail! on February 24, 2008, 07:51:16 AM
Certainly, the other schools you mentioned have better reputations than NYLS, but one reason for that is that the students are better, which will mean more competition for you. If you end up toward the top of your class at NYLS, you will be fine.  In fact, you will be bettter off than someone in the middle or toward the bottom of the other schools you mentioned.  Sometimes, being a big fish in a small pond isn't so bad.  Also, if some of those conditions regarding the money are that you need to stay within a certain % of the class, going to a lower-ranked school will probably make that a little easier. 

Going to a lower-ranked school is absolutely, unquestionably NOT a guarantee (or even an indication) of finishing higher in your class.  I do not advise that you take that risk.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: Sergio on February 24, 2008, 01:43:12 PM
I heard NYLS is full of rich slackers, which should be good for working hard and getting good class rank.  I say this expecting some dough from them, though not nearly as much as the OP.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: woeisme on February 24, 2008, 01:45:27 PM
What are your career goals?
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: epicac on March 10, 2008, 08:59:02 AM
Just looking to get some feedback. I have been accepted to NYLS with a $30K scholarship, renewable each year with conditions of course, and am still waiting to hear from Fordham, Brooklyn, and Cardozo.  I don't think I will get much money from those three, since my LSAT was 162.  Any opinions on whether it would be better to pay a lot more if I got into one of the last three since their rep is better, or is NYLS a good deal with the scholarship?  There are so many different opinions about NYLS out there. 

I'm in the same boat as you... NYLS gave me that offer, and while my (and I'm assuming your) scholarship is dependent on being in the top 15%, I think I can hold it.  The new building looks incredible, the location is unbeatable, and if you are confident in your own abilities, I say go for it.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: MahlerGrooves on March 10, 2008, 09:09:28 AM

[...] while my (and I'm assuming your) scholarship is dependent on being in the top 15%, I think I can hold it [...]

This is not good logic.  Top 15% is tough for anyone anywhere.  Do not assume you can be in the top of your class.  Everyone will be working toward it, so there is no guarantee you will be on of the ones who will.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with busting your ass, working hard, and trying for it.  Just don't take it for granted.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: MahlerGrooves on March 10, 2008, 09:28:29 AM
i second mahler (even though he's headed to that school that i hate).  a large number of people assume that they will be toward the top of their class.  most of those people are terribly wrong.

I know you hate my school.  I love your school's neighborhood (my glory undergrad days).  At least we can both agree on not assuming one will be in top percentage of a class.

People who do that are just setting themselves up for disappointment.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: epicac on March 10, 2008, 09:59:27 AM

[...] while my (and I'm assuming your) scholarship is dependent on being in the top 15%, I think I can hold it [...]

This is not good logic.  Top 15% is tough for anyone anywhere.  Do not assume you can be in the top of your class.  Everyone will be working toward it, so there is no guarantee you will be on of the ones who will.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with busting your ass, working hard, and trying for it.  Just don't take it for granted.


Oh, I'm not taking it for granted at all.  It's just a prediction.  I understand your position, but without going into my situation and background, I know I'll bust my ass.  If you're curious, PM me and I'll clue you in.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: cannotpick on March 10, 2008, 10:54:35 AM
Top 15%?!? That's brutal.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: epicac on March 10, 2008, 10:57:46 AM
Oh, I'm not taking it for granted at all.  It's just a prediction.  I understand your position, but without going into my situation and background, I know I'll bust my ass.  If you're curious, PM me and I'll clue you in.

i'm curious.

I just sent MahlerGrooves the long of it, and I was going to forward it, but it's not in my outbox for some reason.  I'll give you the short of it.  I have at least a dozen people (mostly family) close to me that are involved in law in some capacity- and every one is successful.  They all push me to do my best, and tell me the good and the bad about law school, so I know how to prepare, as well as having a backbone of support for any last minute questions:)

Also, looking at LSN, it appears that my life experience didn't count at all, but the fact of the matter is that I had some really difficult times trying to get a decent GPA.  Trying to pass classes like Fluid Mechanics or Optical Physics when you're on medicines that halve your thinking speed is incredibly difficult.  Luckily, I'm on medicine now that doesn't have that side effect.  I have no doubt that, if healthy and with a slightly easier major, I would have been sitting pretty.

As for my LSAT score, I wish it were better, but the fact of the matter is, as a working engineer, I'm not exposed to words as much as someone who got their BS in English or Poly Sci.  As an engineer, you're trained on visual cues- something that isn't measured at all on the test.  As long as I work hard and apply myself, I'm confident that things will turn out alright.  Nothing in life's a given, and I know that from experience- but I think that with some dedication, I should be able to do well.  Also, 60k for doing well is a might fine motivator haha :)
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: epicac on March 10, 2008, 10:58:23 AM
Top 15%?!? That's brutal.

Yeah... but that's law, sink or swim, right?
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: imagurl on March 10, 2008, 12:01:58 PM
I am really not sure about NYLS.  I am really uncomfortable with the pressure of having to be in the top 15% to keep the scholarship, because honestly if you lose the scholarship, the school is not worth the price tag.  I have offers at other schools that are a bit more forgiving.  We all know we will work hard, that doesn't mean we will all end up in top 15%.  It's a tightrope.  Have you sent in a seat deposit?  How does the new building look?  I'm scheduled to visit soon.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: epicac on March 10, 2008, 12:57:38 PM
I am really not sure about NYLS.  I am really uncomfortable with the pressure of having to be in the top 15% to keep the scholarship, because honestly if you lose the scholarship, the school is not worth the price tag.  I have offers at other schools that are a bit more forgiving.  We all know we will work hard, that doesn't mean we will all end up in top 15%.  It's a tightrope.  Have you sent in a seat deposit?  How does the new building look?  I'm scheduled to visit soon.

I haven't sent in the deposit yet- hopefully Brooklyn sends me an acceptance and an offer, but who knows, apparently they're notoriously slow.  I'm going to NYC in May, so I was going to check out the new building then.  But from what I've read online through various sources, such as the NY Times, it's an architectural marvel.  It won't open until late 2008, from what I've heard, but all the renderings look incredible, and it looks like a place I'd enjoy spending long hours.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: cannotpick on March 10, 2008, 01:02:09 PM
At BLS, the requirement to keep your scholarship used to be top 1/3, but candidates even thought that was too stringent of a requirement, so the school changed it to top 1/2. Top 15% is pretty serious. All it takes is your computer crashing half-way through one of your 1L exams & your scholarship might be gone.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: epicac on March 10, 2008, 01:07:11 PM
i'm unconvinced, but wish you the best of luck regardless if you choose to take this option.

i think you should come back in a year and talk about how it worked out for you.

I should probably refer you to my LSN (same user name).  Honestly, I don't have many options.  If I attend Seton Hall or St. John's, and keep my scholarship all 3 years, the assistance would be approximately equal to the one guaranteed year at NYLS.  As for convincing you that I'm capable, I promise I'll find my way back onto here, hopefully doing well:) Thanks for the well wishes.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: epicac on March 10, 2008, 01:08:51 PM
At BLS, the requirement to keep your scholarship used to be top 1/3, but candidates even thought that was too stringent of a requirement, so the school changed it to top 1/2. Top 15% is pretty serious. All it takes is your computer crashing half-way through one of your 1L exams & your scholarship might be gone.

Top 50%??  Wow, I didn't realize that.  Could you put in a good word for me?   ;D  Just kidding, but hopefully I get something soon from them, because I love the location and their unique programs.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: nerdmeist on March 10, 2008, 02:46:18 PM
My top choice school is NYLS, and it was also the first school to accept me (w/ a measly $5k scholarship).  I've since been accepted to Pace ($15k), NESL ($20), and WNEC ($21k).  I pretty much ruled out MA schools, just because I do not want to move that far away. 

So, right now I'm between Pace and NYLS.  I've almost definately decided to go to NYLS, but I want to see if I can get a little more money from them.  Debt is in my future, there is no denying that.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: imagurl on March 10, 2008, 02:49:27 PM
I would definitely try to push for more money...what are your numbers like?  You'll be paying almost 35K/year for NYLS and factor in the cost of living in NYC and you are looking at some major loans.  Not to mention you will be competing with grads from NYU, Columbia, Fordham, Cardozo, and BLS for jobs.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: nerdmeist on March 10, 2008, 02:53:50 PM
3.5/156

The reason I'm so set on NYLS is because I'm very interested in Mental Health Law and they have a huge program.  And Prof. Perlin is huge in the field, so I figure that is where I should be.  I don't necessarily plan to live in NYC, because I am from NJ and I'm only a 20 min Path ride from the school.  I do plan to move in with a friend in JC though, which would be costly. 

I'm sort of hoping to get some outside scholarship help, but we'll see.  If all else fails, I'll move back in with my parents AFTER graduation!  haha
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: MahlerGrooves on March 10, 2008, 03:48:48 PM
I would definitely try to push for more money...what are your numbers like?  You'll be paying almost 35K/year for NYLS and factor in the cost of living in NYC and you are looking at some major loans.  Not to mention you will be competing with grads from NYU, Columbia, Fordham, Cardozo, and BLS for jobs.

And grads from Harvard and Penn, two schools whose grads primarily want to work in NYC.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: mathlete on March 10, 2008, 04:09:25 PM
Definitely consider NYLS. It'd be a great place to attend because when you're living on the streets after graduating you might be able to spend a few nights in their new building by flashing your old student ID.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: epicac on March 10, 2008, 05:28:51 PM
Definitely consider NYLS. It'd be a great place to attend because when you're living on the streets after graduating you might be able to spend a few nights in their new building by flashing your old student ID.

Haha I guess this is a jab at me, don't know, but I'll already have a job at my bro's firm.  I could also just go back into bioengineering if I'm desperate, so i'm not really too concerned about this scenario.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: clairel on March 10, 2008, 05:38:03 PM
I would definitely try to push for more money...what are your numbers like?  You'll be paying almost 35K/year for NYLS and factor in the cost of living in NYC and you are looking at some major loans.  Not to mention you will be competing with grads from NYU, Columbia, Fordham, Cardozo, and BLS for jobs.

And grads from Harvard and Penn, two schools whose grads primarily want to work in NYC.

i know many t14s are feeders into NYC. chicago, despite being in a pretty decent legal market, has a good number (at least 1/3, maybe more) headed to NYC. basically, you have to compete with nyu, columbia, and a healthy percentage from every other t14 school.

also top 15% is really bad. that's actually the worst gpa requirement i've heard  :-\
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: Curious George on March 15, 2008, 10:05:30 AM
I have also received a 30k/year scholarship offer from NYLS.

They were the first school to notify me.

I've since been informed of acceptance to Tulane with a scholarship, but the email said that my scholarship package is in the mail. (Ah, I can't wait!)

These online message boards are a love/hate relationship for me.  I read so many contradictory things on the internet.

I realize that NYLS isn't the greatest, but my ideal place to go to school and to live would be NYC, and considering I wasn't even sure I'd be accepted into law schools, these scholarship notices have been a nice surprise.  I suppose I sold myself a little short.  I'm also waiting to hear from Brooklyn and Cardozo.

If I were to get accepted to either, I would certainly not expect any scholarship money.

So, with all of that said, I have a hypothetical scenario:

(Only including NYC schools)

NYLS - $30,000/year or Brooklyn/Cardozo - No money.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: MahlerGrooves on March 15, 2008, 11:20:11 AM
I have also received a 30k/year scholarship offer from NYLS.

They were the first school to notify me.

I've since been informed of acceptance to Tulane with a scholarship, but the email said that my scholarship package is in the mail. (Ah, I can't wait!)

These online message boards are a love/hate relationship for me.  I read so many contradictory things on the internet.

I realize that NYLS isn't the greatest, but my ideal place to go to school and to live would be NYC, and considering I wasn't even sure I'd be accepted into law schools, these scholarship notices have been a nice surprise.  I suppose I sold myself a little short.  I'm also waiting to hear from Brooklyn and Cardozo.

If I were to get accepted to either, I would certainly not expect any scholarship money.

So, with all of that said, I have a hypothetical scenario:

(Only including NYC schools)

NYLS - $30,000/year or Brooklyn/Cardozo - No money.


Dozo
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: Curious George on March 15, 2008, 11:49:03 AM
I have also received a 30k/year scholarship offer from NYLS.

They were the first school to notify me.

I've since been informed of acceptance to Tulane with a scholarship, but the email said that my scholarship package is in the mail. (Ah, I can't wait!)

These online message boards are a love/hate relationship for me.  I read so many contradictory things on the internet.

I realize that NYLS isn't the greatest, but my ideal place to go to school and to live would be NYC, and considering I wasn't even sure I'd be accepted into law schools, these scholarship notices have been a nice surprise.  I suppose I sold myself a little short.  I'm also waiting to hear from Brooklyn and Cardozo.

If I were to get accepted to either, I would certainly not expect any scholarship money.

So, with all of that said, I have a hypothetical scenario:

(Only including NYC schools)

NYLS - $30,000/year or Brooklyn/Cardozo - No money.


Dozo

I assume that you would say that same for Brooklyn (None) vs. NYLS (30k)?
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: MahlerGrooves on March 15, 2008, 11:50:20 AM
I have also received a 30k/year scholarship offer from NYLS.

They were the first school to notify me.

I've since been informed of acceptance to Tulane with a scholarship, but the email said that my scholarship package is in the mail. (Ah, I can't wait!)

These online message boards are a love/hate relationship for me.  I read so many contradictory things on the internet.

I realize that NYLS isn't the greatest, but my ideal place to go to school and to live would be NYC, and considering I wasn't even sure I'd be accepted into law schools, these scholarship notices have been a nice surprise.  I suppose I sold myself a little short.  I'm also waiting to hear from Brooklyn and Cardozo.

If I were to get accepted to either, I would certainly not expect any scholarship money.

So, with all of that said, I have a hypothetical scenario:

(Only including NYC schools)

NYLS - $30,000/year or Brooklyn/Cardozo - No money.


Dozo

I assume that you would say that same for Brooklyn (None) vs. NYLS (30k)?

I think so.  The grade requirement for the NYLS scholarship is INSANE.  You may end up doing NYLS with no money as well (top 15% is TOUGH), so it may even out.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: Harsh Reality on March 15, 2008, 08:18:02 PM
If you get into either Brooklyn/Cardozo with no money, it's still better than NYLS.  The $90K scholarship won't mean much if you can't land a good paying job afterwards and if you get out of the gate on the wrong foot (meaning don't land a good 2L summer job), then it's an uphill battle.

Scholarships tend to put more pressure on the student to finish at a certain percentile to keep the scholarship, which can drive some off the wall considering that first year is painful.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: MahlerGrooves on March 16, 2008, 07:51:44 AM
If you get into either Brooklyn/Cardozo with no money, it's still better than NYLS.  The $90K scholarship won't mean much if you can't land a good paying job afterwards and if you get out of the gate on the wrong foot (meaning don't land a good 2L summer job), then it's an uphill battle.

Scholarships tend to put more pressure on the student to finish at a certain percentile to keep the scholarship, which can drive some off the wall considering that first year is painful.

This is so true.  Without gong into detail, a friend of mine hated his 2L summer firm (a smaller firm in the region) and decided to apply other places for post-graduation real work.  Well, he got a job at a firm making $20/hr doing doc review and hated it.  Now he is desperate and looking for anything better - even non-legal jobs.

And this is from a respected high T2 in the region.
Title: Re: $30K at NYLS...worth it?
Post by: Harsh Reality on March 16, 2008, 11:23:57 AM
The problem with NYC and California is that law students/lawyers are a dime a dozen.

Plus, all this talk about wanting to experience the NYC life but seriously, you're not going to have much time your law school to really be partying it up, from experience, those who partied a lot during first year besides 1 or 2 geniuses are struggling to find a good job.  So that's something to consider.