Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: NoUsername on July 21, 2008, 07:15:32 AM

Title: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: NoUsername on July 21, 2008, 07:15:32 AM
Total I am going to do betwen 600-800.  I have been doing 25 per day in the morning, reviewing explanations, and then doing essay stuff in the afternoon.  I did some in the beginning that were segregated by topic, but I didn't find those very helpful.  Sometime this week I may take a full practice test just to get a feel for the timing, although I have been doing them in roughly the right amount of time.

The reason I ask is because I read that some bar review courses recommend doing 2,500, and highly discourage doing only 1,200.  That just seems ridiculous, especially because I am scoring above average after having done only about 300.  I also feel like reading the explanations helps a great deal, and it would take four months to do 2,500 questions while reviewing explanations and studying for the essay portion. 

To me it just seems that these bar review courses are trying to capitalize on people's hysteria.
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: mqt on July 21, 2008, 08:35:15 AM
If you haven't done a full day practice test of the full 200 questions, you should do that at least once...It gets to be very long and tiring, and you'll be in for a rude awakening the day of the real MBE if the most you've done at once has been 25.

But, outside of that, I do agree that the courses try to capitalize on people's hysteria.  That, or they want to cover their asses, so when people fail and try to blame it on an ineffective bar course, barbri, etc, just asks, "Well, did you do 12+ hours of studying and 300 MBE questions per day?  No?  Well, no wonder you failed!  You didn't follow the program!"     
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: jacy85 on July 21, 2008, 09:25:10 AM
Our Bar/Bri MBE reviewer also gave us a 1500 question goal or something like that.

My guess is that I'll have done about 600-800 as well.
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: pickle on July 21, 2008, 09:58:39 AM
i've done the barbri self study.  to date i've done over 1200. 
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: NoUsername on July 21, 2008, 10:02:42 AM
How long of a lunch break do you get?  The VA bar website doesn't specify anything on that.


I am trying to decide whether I should do a full day of MBE sometime this week, or split it up over two days and do essays in the after noon.
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: mqt on July 21, 2008, 10:43:50 AM
How long of a lunch break do you get?  The VA bar website doesn't specify anything on that.


I am trying to decide whether I should do a full day of MBE sometime this week, or split it up over two days and do essays in the after noon.

For the reason that I've already mentioned, I'd recommend doing it all in one day.  Two 3-hour sessions with a 1 or 1.5 hour break in between.  It will give you a better sense of how you react to the fatigue of reading through that many problems at once.  On the simulated MBE day for barbri, I actually did better on the 2nd set of 100 questions than the first, but by the time I got to question 150 or so, I was really struggling to maintain focus. 

To each his own, though, so do what you're comfortable with, but I think doing a "Full" MBE at least once is useful.  Your mind starts to wander, and that will affect to some extent your overall score.  I thought the essays would be worse, but going through that many MBE questions in one sitting is definitely tougher in my opinion.   (outside of that one day, though, I've been doing 20-50 questions per day.  I'll probably be doing 50 a day max from this point forward, finding my time better spent on reviewing the outlines because a lot of questions I get wrong are simply because I can't recall some nit-picky area of law). 
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: unlvcrjchick on July 21, 2008, 11:01:34 AM
I'm not going to do ANY MBE questions. Right now, the focus should be on learning as much of the law as you can so you can simply regurgitate it back to the examiners on the essays and to be able to recognize it on the MBE questions.
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: Budlaw on July 21, 2008, 11:08:45 AM
I'd say I'll probably have ended up doing around 1200 by the time its over. But...that's including 3 actual MBE's. (which means 600 were in a testing environment) So in reality, I'll have done only about 600 practice MBE questions outside of an actual test environment. (and 300 of those also include the initial 50 questions per MBE subject included in the PMBR course)

I've found that actually studying the material really hard, really paying attention to those lectures, and doing less questions, is a lot more productive than doing 50 mbe questions a day like pmbr recommended. I just took my second practice MBE this past weekend and I got a raw score of 144 out of 200. This translated into a 156.8 when scaled. Considering that Georgia only requires a 115 to get your essays and MPT graded, I'd say that I'm pretty much on target.

So yeah, I'll have done a lot of questions, but nothing really ridiculous like PMBR recommended.

In the end, I think Bar Bri (or your bar review course of choice) and PMBR just tell you to do a ridiculous amount of MBE questions so they can pull and CYA if you happen to fail the bar, and you didn't follow their "recommended approach."
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: NoUsername on July 21, 2008, 12:02:16 PM
Budlaw, Mqt, and pickle: how many would you say you've done and reviewed an answer explanation?  Do you find it helpful to do them without looking at an explanation?

I find that most of the ones I am missing, I can't just look at the right answer and know why I missed it, I have to review an explanation. 
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: pickle on July 21, 2008, 12:23:31 PM
Budlaw, Mqt, and pickle: how many would you say you've done and reviewed an answer explanation?  Do you find it helpful to do them without looking at an explanation?

I find that most of the ones I am missing, I can't just look at the right answer and know why I missed it, I have to review an explanation. 

i agree, i read the explanations of the ones i get wrong, and write out the rule if that was the reason i got it wrong. 
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: mqt on July 21, 2008, 12:28:46 PM
Budlaw, Mqt, and pickle: how many would you say you've done and reviewed an answer explanation?  Do you find it helpful to do them without looking at an explanation?

I find that most of the ones I am missing, I can't just look at the right answer and know why I missed it, I have to review an explanation. 

Reviewing the explanations is far more important than the volume of questions completed.  Even if I instantly recognize why I got a question wrong (b/c I answered too quickly or didn't pay attention to some minor detail in the question), I still review the reasoning to reinforce it. 
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: NoUsername on July 22, 2008, 06:58:43 AM
So you guys have done 1200 and reviewed explanations?  That is insane.


I just did 50, so now I am up to 400 or so.  I thought I did really horrible, I couldn't even keep my eyes open.  But I got 84%, which would come out to a 176 on the full test.  I know that is an anamoly, but it is still an ego boost.
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: RockyMountainHighMama on July 22, 2008, 10:56:29 AM
I'm at about 1800 now, with a goal to have done about 2100 by next week; there's a slump period between 1200 and 1500, but after that you get a lot quicker/better at them. I wouldn't want to have only seen 400 or so before the test. I've been doing 7 essays in the morning, and 51 MBEs in the afternoon, and a MPT + 100 MBEs every Wednesday. Sorry if that doesn't make you feel better, but perhaps you don't need this kind of rigor. I am an old person.
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: mqt on July 22, 2008, 11:30:39 AM
I've been doing 7 essays in the morning, and 51 MBEs in the afternoon, and a MPT + 100 MBEs every Wednesday.

 :o  Holy Crap! 

I plan to study every morning, but end up just putzing around, then do some studying of outlines and MBEs in the afternoon, then watch TV and have a few beers in the evening.     
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: jacy85 on July 22, 2008, 11:53:31 AM
I've been doing 7 essays in the morning, and 51 MBEs in the afternoon, and a MPT + 100 MBEs every Wednesday.

 :o  Holy Crap! 

I plan to study every morning, but end up just putzing around, then do some studying of outlines and MBEs in the afternoon, then watch TV and have a few beers in the evening.     

This has been my schedule too, mqt.  Glad someone else is on the more "relaxed" plan.  It's not that I intend to waste most of a day, but it's just been sort of happening lately. 
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: mqt on July 22, 2008, 01:03:24 PM
I've been doing 7 essays in the morning, and 51 MBEs in the afternoon, and a MPT + 100 MBEs every Wednesday.

 :o  Holy Crap! 

I plan to study every morning, but end up just putzing around, then do some studying of outlines and MBEs in the afternoon, then watch TV and have a few beers in the evening.     

This has been my schedule too, mqt.  Glad someone else is on the more "relaxed" plan.  It's not that I intend to waste most of a day, but it's just been sort of happening lately. 

And today is especially bad.  It's already well into the afternoon and I'm still putzing around.  Ok.  Off to work, I swear!
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: StrictlyLiable on July 22, 2008, 02:59:30 PM
I hit a wall after I did the simulated MBE last Wednesday. Since that point, I have scraped the Paced Program and been following my own schedule. I have done less MBE questions and focused more on making up flashcards in order to memorize black letter law.

This week I have done and am planning to do two sets of flashcards per day followed by 25 mixed topic questions. On the weekend I will mix up my entire lot of flashcards, review them all, and do 6 practice essays each day. On Monday, I will do a morning session simulated MBE and then pack it in.

BTW, just to answer the OP's question, I have done approximately 1000 MBE questions so far and have about 250 more I plan to do, so I'll end up with close to 1300 questions completed when its all said and done.
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: Budlaw on July 23, 2008, 03:01:16 PM
So you guys have done 1200 and reviewed explanations?  That is insane.


I just did 50, so now I am up to 400 or so.  I thought I did really horrible, I couldn't even keep my eyes open.  But I got 84%, which would come out to a 176 on the full test.  I know that is an anamoly, but it is still an ego boost.

I will have done 1200 when I take my last practice MBE tomorrow. But its still not anywhere near what PMBR recommended. (and by the way.... having taken PMBR's practice MBE, and a real previously released MBE, I've got to say that PMBR's is a lot harder than the actual MBEs)

To echo everyone else, everyone learns differently, so you don't have to do that many practice questions just so long as you can learn the material. Just doing practice questions does you no good unless you understand the material, and WHY you got it right, or WHY you got it wrong. This isn't like the LSAT.

Also, I've pretty much stopped being insane on my studying too. I'll do a simulated MBE tomorrow, but for the past week and a half,(and for the rest of this week) I've just been reading over materials, and looking at old Georgia essays and their answers. Because lets face it, if we don't know the law at this point, we're not going to learn it in 5 days.

For those of you taking the MPT: How are you approaching this? I have a "mpt trainer" course, but I've found that its basically for idiots who don't know how to write a closed memo (or client letter, or whatever it is they ask you to draft). So I basically scrapped it. I think the best thing to do with this is just know what the format of the MPT is, and then don't be freaked out when you only have 90 minutes to do it. It seems like a fairly straightforward task in that you are given the law, and then you have to do a task.

Any thoughts out there?
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: jacy85 on July 23, 2008, 03:16:04 PM
So you guys have done 1200 and reviewed explanations?  That is insane.


I just did 50, so now I am up to 400 or so.  I thought I did really horrible, I couldn't even keep my eyes open.  But I got 84%, which would come out to a 176 on the full test.  I know that is an anamoly, but it is still an ego boost.

I will have done 1200 when I take my last practice MBE tomorrow. But its still not anywhere near what PMBR recommended. (and by the way.... having taken PMBR's practice MBE, and a real previously released MBE, I've got to say that PMBR's is a lot harder than the actual MBEs)

To echo everyone else, everyone learns differently, so you don't have to do that many practice questions just so long as you can learn the material. Just doing practice questions does you no good unless you understand the material, and WHY you got it right, or WHY you got it wrong. This isn't like the LSAT.

Also, I've pretty much stopped being insane on my studying too. I'll do a simulated MBE tomorrow, but for the past week and a half,(and for the rest of this week) I've just been reading over materials, and looking at old Georgia essays and their answers. Because lets face it, if we don't know the law at this point, we're not going to learn it in 5 days.

For those of you taking the MPT: How are you approaching this? I have a "mpt trainer" course, but I've found that its basically for idiots who don't know how to write a closed memo (or client letter, or whatever it is they ask you to draft). So I basically scrapped it. I think the best thing to do with this is just know what the format of the MPT is, and then don't be freaked out when you only have 90 minutes to do it. It seems like a fairly straightforward task in that you are given the law, and then you have to do a task.

Any thoughts out there?

Bar/Bri gave us a book of old MPTs.  I ran through a "client letter" one the other day, reading the library and outlining an answer, just to get into the swing of the "normal" legal analysis again.  I'll probably just read through some of their example formats that are foreign to me (like the ones that ask you to draft a contract or a will) just so I've seen it.  But otherwise, I'm not going to do much.  I don't see how you can do much.

The only good advice Bar/Bri gave is to read the call of the question first in the memo/assignment (e.g. what issues you have to address), and then go right to the library and outline the "law" on the issue, and then, last, read the facts.  That's pretty much the only way I see to do it within 90 minutes, but the knee jerk reaction to go through in order and read the facts second (since they come before the law).
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: Budlaw on July 24, 2008, 11:21:40 AM
So you guys have done 1200 and reviewed explanations?  That is insane.


I just did 50, so now I am up to 400 or so.  I thought I did really horrible, I couldn't even keep my eyes open.  But I got 84%, which would come out to a 176 on the full test.  I know that is an anamoly, but it is still an ego boost.

I will have done 1200 when I take my last practice MBE tomorrow. But its still not anywhere near what PMBR recommended. (and by the way.... having taken PMBR's practice MBE, and a real previously released MBE, I've got to say that PMBR's is a lot harder than the actual MBEs)

To echo everyone else, everyone learns differently, so you don't have to do that many practice questions just so long as you can learn the material. Just doing practice questions does you no good unless you understand the material, and WHY you got it right, or WHY you got it wrong. This isn't like the LSAT.

Also, I've pretty much stopped being insane on my studying too. I'll do a simulated MBE tomorrow, but for the past week and a half,(and for the rest of this week) I've just been reading over materials, and looking at old Georgia essays and their answers. Because lets face it, if we don't know the law at this point, we're not going to learn it in 5 days.

For those of you taking the MPT: How are you approaching this? I have a "mpt trainer" course, but I've found that its basically for idiots who don't know how to write a closed memo (or client letter, or whatever it is they ask you to draft). So I basically scrapped it. I think the best thing to do with this is just know what the format of the MPT is, and then don't be freaked out when you only have 90 minutes to do it. It seems like a fairly straightforward task in that you are given the law, and then you have to do a task.

Any thoughts out there?

Bar/Bri gave us a book of old MPTs.  I ran through a "client letter" one the other day, reading the library and outlining an answer, just to get into the swing of the "normal" legal analysis again.  I'll probably just read through some of their example formats that are foreign to me (like the ones that ask you to draft a contract or a will) just so I've seen it.  But otherwise, I'm not going to do much.  I don't see how you can do much.

The only good advice Bar/Bri gave is to read the call of the question first in the memo/assignment (e.g. what issues you have to address), and then go right to the library and outline the "law" on the issue, and then, last, read the facts.  That's pretty much the only way I see to do it within 90 minutes, but the knee jerk reaction to go through in order and read the facts second (since they come before the law).



Yeah that pretty much how I planned on doing it.

BTW, if I hear "call of the question" ever again after the Bar Exam, I think I might punch someone.  ;)
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: jacy85 on July 24, 2008, 11:32:03 AM
I agree.  I hate that phrase now.
Title: Re: How many MBE questions are you going to do total before the bar?
Post by: mqt on July 24, 2008, 11:38:21 AM


BTW, if I hear "call of the question" ever again after the Bar Exam, I think I might punch someone.  ;)

I might just punch someone after the Bar Exam, regardless of reason.