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Messages - jack24

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I have real life experience.  First, I had a 2.3 undergrad gpa, and a 142 LSAT.  Quantitative, I am bottom of the barrel and not going to be successful in law school, or the bar exam.  I was admitted to SJCL, and sat through the full first year.  I was academically disqualified because my GPA was below the standard.  From what I recall, the cut rate was 2/3, GONE.  I went to work as a paralegal, and then applied to another Cal Bar law school.  I am not one quarter away from graduation.  Here is my take.  No matter what law school you go to, Stanford or Yale or small time cal bar school, YOU WILL BUST YOUR BUTT, just to get through the first year.  If you have the scores to get to a big time ABA school, you probably can "play the game" a little better.  but regardless, its hard, and you will dump many sleepless nights, weekends are shot, and you may lose your spouse.  I encourage you to go.  But do not be bummed if you do not get through the first year.  However, it is not impossible, with hard work. A LOT of hard work.  you have to learn the game, and quickly.  oh, and there is no magical pill to get out of hard work.  everyone has their own method to passing law school, they are all different.  the one thing in common, is hard work.  best of luck to you.

What are you talking about?

Anybody with reasonable focus and intelligence can reach 95% of their potential in law school by dedicated 50 hours (real hours) a week.   After my first semester, I probably spent about 35 hours a week for 12 weeks and then 80 hours a week for 3 weeks.  A lot of that time was spent for law review, moot court, and writing papers.
I was almost always over-prepared for exams. 

Really, every hour over about 50 per week will be next to useless.  It would be much better to spend that extra time to work out, watch movies, take your spouse on dates, or have sex.

Current Law Students / Re: True cost of delaying law school
« on: January 14, 2013, 02:35:10 PM »
I'm looking for the true cost (lifetime earnings loss) of delaying law school one year.

There is a statistic on this (perhaps in a bar periodical), but I can't find it.

(I'm not considering deferring; my interest is for other reasons.)

Thank you.


How much would you make during the one year delay?
How much of that would you save?
By how much would your debt be reduced?
Are you considering the median lawyer or a high-end lawyer?
How much debt will be incurred from law school?

I really don't have any softs to put on my application.  I have some work experience, but only fast food, grocery story and working for my parent's PI office which does work investigation for defense attorneys in my area.  Other than that I really don't have anything.  I'm never been big on joining clubs simply because I'm not the most social person.  The SGA at my school is pretty much a fraternity thing and I have neither the money nor the desire to be part of that.  The only club I've really been a part of is a campus activist club.  We basically would work with the campus union, go to their meetings and if they were having a rally or demonstration we would support them, but I'm not sure if law schools would look fondly on that or not.  So, I'm just kind of worried my lack of decent softs could hurt me

The general rule is that softs will only be used as a tie breaker.    What is your LSAT GPA range?   If you are trying to get into Harvard or Yale, I have no advice for you, but if you are looking at schools ranked from 15-100, don't worry too much.   As Groundhog said, make your resume look professional and get some good letters of recommendation.   I've had three admissions officers at law school tell me softs don't make a difference unless they are somewhat unique (i.e., NCAA Athlete, Olympian, Staffer for a Politician or Ambassador, etc)

Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students / Re: Am I too old for law?
« on: January 08, 2013, 10:40:45 AM »
I am a 37 year old wondering if I have the time necessary not only complete a degree in law, but do so in a manner that secures me a position which would successfully pay off my debt within a time frame which would allow me to live on some of the money I earn.  I have a 3.6 GPA in Economics.  I have not taken the LSAT.  Is it worth it?  No family.  Just me in need of a career change.  All and any input is appreciated.

I think you should clarify your question a little.   What type of law would you like to practice?  What size firm/organization?  How much money do reasonably expect to make?
 If you do well on the LSAT and don't go into a lot of debt, then "time" isn't really an issue

If you were gunning to work at a large law firm, you would be wise to talk to some biglaw lawyers.  I've heard that it is difficult for older people to get into internships with large firms (and some government agencies).    But if you'd like to get a license and start your own practice, I don't think age is a significant factor.

Law School Admissions / Re: Taking Paralegal courses before applying?
« on: January 07, 2013, 11:35:51 AM »
I think you'd be much better served by dedicating your time to LSAT prep.

All I have to add is that you should evaluate your potential undergrad path without even thinking about law school.  For the most part, law schools don't really care about where you went or what you studied.  They just care that the school was accredited, and that you have a competitive LSAT and GPA.   So that allows you to get an education in a valuable area, that might lead to better options than law school.

To be honest, if your only real goal was to get into law school, I would advise you find a decent 4 year college and get the easiest (and cheapest) degree you can find while studying for the LSAT.   A 3.8 GPA and 160 LSAT out of a no-name 4 year college is much better than a 3.4 GPA and 160 LSAT out of a good state school.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Where should I go?
« on: January 07, 2013, 11:28:36 AM »
Any idea what you want to do after law school?

Work at a medium firm in ______ city?   Start your own practice?  Work for the government?    At this point, I think you evaluate location first, and then cost.    If location isn't an issue, go to the school with the lowest end-cost and try your best to dominate there. 

Law School Admissions / Re: GPA 3.88 LSAT160
« on: January 04, 2013, 11:17:12 AM »
where should i apply? :-(
worked hard on my lsat but couldnt get it higher. already took it twice.

I haven't been on this site in a long time.  People give such comprehensive and informative answers.

You can find all the advice in the world.  I'll just say this, if I were you, I'd pick a region, and then go somewhere on a full scholarship.   Those would be my only considerations.  Location and cost. 

I had a chance to go to a T3 for no tuition plus a large stipend, but I went to a T2 (60-80) because it had better numbers and a better rank.  I have a good firm job now, but I'm heavily in debt and it's not like I have my dream job.

Let's say you wanted to live and work in Missouri, and you could get into WUSTL for full tuition or the lowly UMKC for free.  I would probably advise you to take UMKC.

Law School Admissions / Re: Addendum Question
« on: September 24, 2012, 10:32:03 AM »
My numbers are GPA 3.55, LSAT 169. I took a lot of summer courses (and regular courses) because I changed my major towards the end of my college years. Should I write an addendum explaining my heavy load of courses?

If you are applying for several "reach" schools, I guess you may need to throw a hail mary, but it generally isn't a good idea to say, "My GPA goes down when I'm under pressure!" in order to get into law school.   A better approach, in my opinion, is to point out a struggle you overcame. 

Incoming 1Ls / Re: Tax Attorney opinions
« on: September 20, 2012, 01:23:44 PM »
Just to give a brief about myself, I'm an accounting graduate student at a low-tier school. I will have passed my CPAs by the end of the school year.

I'm realizing more and more how fascinated I am by law. I know law school will be rigorous and stressful, but it's something I feel like I would thoroughly enjoy learning.

Also what I'm realizing more is that the more I work, the less I like to deal with people. I'm not saying I want to sit in a cubicle all day, but I'm definitely not the guy who wants to get up and give speeches in front of people.

Do any of you think there are (tax) law jobs that I should research more that will require less social interaction?


Almost all partners in tax groups have client interaction.  Fortunately, the interaction is usually with business owners or the elderly. 

My only caveat is that tax law is a pretty small world, and you aren't guaranteed a spot, even as a CPA.  Most tax groups outside of large firms are actually paired with estate planning groups.
If you go into litigation on the tax and estate side, you might have more opportunities, but you'll have to interact with more people.

What type of work would you like to do that you can't do with a CPA?

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