Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on April 30, 2008, 11:21:42 AM

Title: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on April 30, 2008, 11:21:42 AM
I'm a Kobe Fanatic....if you go against him, be prepared to argue for months...lol
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: $Bill on April 30, 2008, 11:28:12 AM
MJ, 97 Championships, high fever, game of his life.  Plus he was the ONLY character to play on the Sega Basketball games.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: blk_reign on April 30, 2008, 11:29:13 AM
of all of the things that are going on right now in the world.. you make your return post about sports.. how surprising...
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Gitmo Jones on April 30, 2008, 11:32:29 AM
MJ this is not even a real question, I love Kobe but not even close, you should have put up Pistol Pete, favorite player of all time, and paved the way for Magic
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: matta on April 30, 2008, 11:39:48 AM
Larry Bird is the best all around player in basketball history.  He could do everything on the court.  Check out this highlight reel, and keep in mind that the majority of this comes from the playoffs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU)
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on April 30, 2008, 11:43:57 AM
I was thinking about adding Shaquille O'neal to the list. He has taken three different teams to the championship.  I'm sticking with Kobe the Great!! He's just now in his prime...

Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on April 30, 2008, 11:48:52 AM
of all of the things that are going on right now in the world.. you make your return post about sports.. how surprising...

It is playoff season.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: The Fresh Prince on April 30, 2008, 08:27:38 PM
I'm gonna have to go with MJ on this one. Besides stats, MJ's intangibles are what make him the best to play the game...dude was just so clutch. And I hear you on Pistol Pete...I feel he's the best to ever play at the college level. Didn't he average like 40-something a game? Crazy.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on April 30, 2008, 09:09:17 PM
I honestly believe that the competition today, is much better. Athletes are bigger, faster and stronger. Lebron James is a guard. Back in those days, he could have been a center.  Kobe's arsenal is untouchable. He is by far a better shooter than Jordan...He'll have to win a few more rings of course...
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Gitmo Jones on May 01, 2008, 04:45:42 AM
I honestly believe that the competition today, is much better. Athletes are bigger, faster and stronger. Lebron James is a guard. Back in those days, he could have been a center.  Kobe's arsenal is untouchable. He is by far a better shooter than Jordan...He'll have to win a few more rings of course...

A few more try at least three more and even then it would not be close because the first three were with the Big Aristotle at center, MJ won his rings with Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright at center, come on not even close!!!
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 01, 2008, 10:02:16 AM
I honestly believe that the competition today, is much better. Athletes are bigger, faster and stronger. Lebron James is a guard. Back in those days, he could have been a center.  Kobe's arsenal is untouchable. He is by far a better shooter than Jordan...He'll have to win a few more rings of course...

A few more try at least three more and even then it would not be close because the first three were with the Big Aristotle at center, MJ won his rings with Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright at center, come on not even close!!!

Did Jordan ever win a ring without Pippen...? Pippen is arguably the best defender ever to play in the NBA.  Even when jordan retired, pippen was still able to get the bulls into the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Pippen is a top 50 great...and dont forget, it was pippen who stuck the clyde drexler's....Every ring that Jordan got, was with Pippen. And the bulls did not start winning, until pippen joined along.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Gitmo Jones on May 01, 2008, 11:23:20 AM
And they changed coaches, to the Zen Master, MJ is one of few players to lead a team to multiple championships without a dominate inside presence, Pippen was great, but how much of that was because of Jordan, Pippen is ultimately a great second fiddle, not someone who can carry a team, much like a Lamar Odom, although Odom is more of a poor mans Pippen, there is no doubt Kobe is great, he is my favorite player playing right now, but he is not even in the same stratosphere as Jordan
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 01, 2008, 11:31:25 AM
Jordan did have a good inside presence.  Horace grant, Rodman, Longley were all respectable players. Grant and Rodman were actually good players. Rodman was an all star player. While Jordan did not have a dominate big man, he had a world class supporting system. From pippen, to Kucoc, to Grant, to Armstrong, to Rodman, he has way more support than Kobe Bryant had.  And your right, Odom is a very poor man's version of Scottie Pippen. Pippen did carry them to the 2nd round without Jordan and even had a career year statistically.  Kobe has a supporting system now and we shall see. Kobe isnt blessed to have a pippen on his team. So whether he is playing iverson, lebron, wade, williams or tmac, Kobe takes on the defensive task of guarding them...Unlike Jordan who was also good defensively, but pippen was GREAT.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Gitmo Jones on May 01, 2008, 11:35:16 AM
Jordan did have a good inside presence.  Horace grant, Rodman, Longley were all respectable players. Grant and Rodman were actually good players. Rodman was an all star player. While Jordan did not have a dominate big man, he had a world class supporting system. From pippen, to Kucoc, to Grant, to Armstrong, to Rodman, he has way more support than Kobe Bryant had.  And your right, Odom is a very poor man's version of Scottie Pippen. Pippen did carry them to the 2nd round without Jordan and even had a career year statistically.  Kobe has a supporting system now and we shall see. Kobe isnt blessed to have a pippen on his team. So whether he is playing iverson, lebron, wade, williams or tmac, Kobe takes on the defensive task of guarding them...Unlike Jordan who was also good defensively, but pippen was GREAT.

Now you are just being ridiculous, Luc Longley, Horace Grant, that is a joke, Ho Grant was a poor mans Charles Oakley, aka not very good, Jordan was better than Kobe defensively, Rodman was a good defensive inside presence, he provided nothing offensively, this is like saying Tony Romo is better than Tom Brady, just not gonna work.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 01, 2008, 11:43:38 AM
No Not at all. It's like saying Peyton Manning is better than Tom Brady. In his prime, Horace Grant was a force.  You mentioned Lamar Odom, who hasnt made an all start team or been a force until this year.  I'd take Luc Longley and Horace grant over Samaki Walker and Kwame Brown anyday!! That is what Kobe has been playing with for the last few years.  Kobe is 28ish and has ten more years left to play....There are many other things to take in account also. As I pointed out, the modern day athlete is bigger, faster and stronger.  There was also no zone defense back than either......I beleive that Jordan is a better team player. But mono on mono, straight skills, Kobe....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: mike4488 on May 01, 2008, 12:38:20 PM
I think it verges on silly to say that Kobe is better than Michael Jordan.  And Kobe is by far my favorite player in the league right now.  What sets Jordan apart is the way he elevates his teammates to new levels.  What happen to Pippen when Jordan left and for that matter what happen to anybody who played with Jordan after Jordan wasn't around.  They just weren't very good.

Also, the competition in the league was much better back then.  The league today is an absolute joke.  You have a bunch of gangsters running around like their heads chopped off.  Oh how I do long for the days of the way basketball was played in the 90's.  Most of the players still had a little bit of class in them. 
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 01, 2008, 12:45:36 PM
Your right about the class of the league. But the modern day athletes are better. The big men were better back in the day.  But there were also a lot of players from back in the day who couldnt play in the NBA today.  I agree with Jordan elevating his teammates. Kobe is doing that now.  As you see younger guys like walton, farmer, vujacic and andrew bynum. Look at bynum when he first came in the league to now.An its unfair to say what happened to the guys after Jordan left. Those guys were the same age as Jordan and most of them retired or were past there prime. Pippen had a few good seasons but aged. Rodman won some more rings and did good. Kerr won some more rings and did good. Grant did good and aged.  All of those players aged, just as jordan did.  What happened to Jordan when he didnt have pippen...? The modern day athlete is ridiculous. Name a similar player to Lebron James? Chris Paul? Tim Duncan? Kobe Bryant? Dirk Nowitzski is 7'0 and shoots like a guard..Years ago, this was unheard of.....Jordan is an icon and people do not want to hear that Kobe is comparable and to some, better.  Every analyst has mentioned this and some even agree tha kobe is better....Kobe has another ten years left of playing.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: blk_reign on May 01, 2008, 01:11:31 PM
hmm just wondering.. in contrast to the players of the 80s and 90s..which set of players had more education? which players spoke more articulately thus inspiring young boys both on and off the court?

and hands down the players of the 80s and 90s outshine these new cats anyday.. kobe is definitely a beast on the court..i'll give him that.. but he couldn't outshine jordan in his prime... jordan knew what it was like to be part of a team...

these days it's whatever team v bryant.. period..
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 01, 2008, 01:49:36 PM
hmm just wondering.. in contrast to the players of the 80s and 90s..which set of players had more education? which players spoke more articulately thus inspiring young boys both on and off the court?

and hands down the players of the 80s and 90s outshine these new cats anyday.. kobe is definitely a beast on the court..i'll give him that.. but he couldn't outshine jordan in his prime... jordan knew what it was like to be part of a team...

these days it's whatever team v bryant.. period..

It wasnt until the 90's that players started entering the draft straight out of high school. So it's only natural for these young males to be misguided. They were basically boys taking on a man's role. Many of them were 17 coming into the NBA. Therefore they had no education and poor guidance. I agree, the 80's cats were better role models. The new role prohibits them from leaving straight out of high school. But every era has it's bad guys....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: blk_reign on May 01, 2008, 02:16:12 PM
how naive do u think i am? good lord.. i'm well aware of when b ball players were admitted str8 from hs.. and i know bryant was the first guard admitted... it isn't "natural" for  them to be misguided..but i already know that you can't handle that debate so i'll keep it light for the sake of this bs thread..





It wasnt until the 90's that players started entering the draft straight out of high school. So it's only natural for these young males to be misguided. They were basically boys taking on a man's role. Many of them were 17 coming into the NBA. Therefore they had no education and poor guidance. I agree, the 80's cats were better role models. The new role prohibits them from leaving straight out of high school. But every era has it's bad guys....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 01, 2008, 06:44:17 PM
How can a person be educated if they never went to college because they chose to play professional basketball? Your comparing teenagers to grown men.  It is more likely for them to act not as mature as grown men and make mistakes...Everyone of them isnt blessed with a good support system. Look at the Kevin Garnett story. He was his own parent and had to raise his sister. Sebastian Telefair was trying to get out the projects. The list goes on. Unfortunately I didnt phrase what I was trying to say right. What I mean is that these were teenagers coming into the NBA, versus grown men with college degrees. So you can expect the 80's players to have much more class. They are more mature and older....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: ChiJD on May 02, 2008, 06:30:19 AM
Back to the original topic.....

This isn't even a question. MJ hands down.

Also, Luc Longley was never, is not, and shall never be considered a respectable player. He was pretty much just a big body in the paint. He didn't really "do" much of anything else.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 02, 2008, 08:17:02 AM
Back to the original topic.....

This isn't even a question. MJ hands down.

Also, Luc Longley was never, is not, and shall never be considered a respectable player. He was pretty much just a big body in the paint. He didn't really "do" much of anything else.

Luc Longley is by far better than Samaki Walker and Kwame Brown. Kwame Brown may be the biggest bust in the history of the nba. Luc Longley had Horace Grant to compliment him...Who was very respected, especially in his prime.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on May 02, 2008, 09:38:30 AM
MJ without question.  Kobe is easily the best player in the NBA right now, but Kobe has admitedly imitated MJ since his high school days in Philly so it wouldn't make any sense for him to be better than the person who he is imitating.


And can we get an honorable mention for Bro. Wilt?  And Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?  Wsup?
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 02, 2008, 09:54:21 AM
MJ without question.  Kobe is easily the best player in the NBA right now, but Kobe has admitedly imitated MJ since his high school days in Philly so it wouldn't make any sense for him to be better than the person who he is imitating.


And can we get an honorable mention for Bro. Wilt?  And Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?  Wsup?

Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan. In a sense, everyone imitates there games after Jordan. He is basketball. I see the similarities but they also have differences too. Kobe is a better pure shooter where as Jordan has more of the intangibles....

p.s Sorry about Wilt and Kareem..I didnt have enought spots. But they are definately greats!
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Burning Sands, Esq. on May 02, 2008, 10:40:50 AM
They are greats indeed.

On the real though, and I've heard a lot of people say this, I really stopped watching the NBA after Jordan left. It just ain't the same anymore.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Astro on May 02, 2008, 08:20:14 PM
Hmm, let's see...

MJ beats Kobe in every major playoff statistical category.  Far ahead in points per game, more than a whole steal, rebound, and assist per game ahead of Kobe, and also beats him in blocks per game.  Basically tied for turnovers (Kobe has 0.1 fewer per game).

MJ had six championships with teams of varying make-ups.  Kobe has three, all with basically the same team.

MJ almost never missed a clutch shot.  Kobe's pretty clutch too, but he hasn't been quite as tested when the stakes were highest as MJ was.

MJ never had an inside presence.  Kobe did, and it was considerable: 4-time champion Shaq.

Both have had excellent defensive help on the floor.  MJ probably got a bit better assistance than Kobe.


All that said, my take is that Kobe writes his script over the next two or three years with this new Lakers team.  Not only does he need to show that he can win with this team while dominating games both offensively and defensively, but he has to be the clutch guy, time after time, without fail.  And he needs to win at least two more championships.

It's a tough ask, but he may be able to do it.  If he does, they'll probably be equal, and you can go with either one and not lose the argument.  Right now, though, it's MJ on reputation and performance, with Kobe having the potential to get there.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on May 03, 2008, 06:15:32 AM
Jordan did have a good inside presence.  Horace grant, Rodman, Longley were all respectable players. Grant and Rodman were actually good players. Rodman was an all star player. While Jordan did not have a dominate big man, he had a world class supporting system. From pippen, to Kucoc, to Grant, to Armstrong, to Rodman, he has way more support than Kobe Bryant had.  And your right, Odom is a very poor man's version of Scottie Pippen. Pippen did carry them to the 2nd round without Jordan and even had a career year statistically.  Kobe has a supporting system now and we shall see. Kobe isnt blessed to have a pippen on his team. So whether he is playing iverson, lebron, wade, williams or tmac, Kobe takes on the defensive task of guarding them...Unlike Jordan who was also good defensively, but pippen was GREAT.

1) Horace Grant averaged 11.2 points per game for his career.  That's mediocre.

2) Rodman averaged 7.3 points per game.

3) Luc Longley averaged 7.2 points per game.  That's not good.

4) Let's look at who was on the Lakers' 1999-2000 squad:

   a) Ron Harper
   b) Glen Rice
   c) Robert Horry

While a) and b) were past their prime, they are much better players than the ones that the Bulls had for a supporting cast, in terms of skill.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: gatornation on May 03, 2008, 07:16:36 AM
MJ was, far and away, the best player ever.  His career stats far outmatch Kobe, even when you consider that Jordan played way into his 40s which hurt his numbers. Kobe is an amazing player, and has been for many years, but he is highly overrated because people see an amazing 10 minute stretch (or occasionally 48 minute stretch, which leads to those 50+ point games) and forget about all the other times where he's launching and missing a ton of bad shots. He shoots a pretty low percentage for an all time great (much lower than Jordan).  He is only the third or fourth best player in the league right now, after LeBron, Chris Paul, and possibly Duncan or KG.  I should clarify that by best I mean most productive and useful, not most accomplished.. obviously Kobe is more accomplished than any of those guys other than Duncan.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 03, 2008, 12:15:18 PM
MJ was, far and away, the best player ever.  His career stats far outmatch Kobe, even when you consider that Jordan played way into his 40s which hurt his numbers. Kobe is an amazing player, and has been for many years, but he is highly overrated because people see an amazing 10 minute stretch (or occasionally 48 minute stretch, which leads to those 50+ point games) and forget about all the other times where he's launching and missing a ton of bad shots. He shoots a pretty low percentage for an all time great (much lower than Jordan).  He is only the third or fourth best player in the league right now, after LeBron, Chris Paul, and possibly Duncan or KG.  I should clarify that by best I mean most productive and useful, not most accomplished.. obviously Kobe is more accomplished than any of those guys other than Duncan.
Please dont even mention Lebron in the same sentence as Kobe. Kobe is hands down the best player in the league and has been for a few years now.  I agree, to solidify his name with Jordan, he would have to win with this team. Which I think he'll do. People forget that Bynum, who was one of the leagues best big man, is still hurt. But the Lakers are still dominating.The stats about Rodman are true, but it was his defensive and rebounding presence.Rodman won consectutive defense player of the year awards, along with a 6th man of the year award. I dont think Kobe ever had that....He led the league in rebounding while playing with the bulls.  Ron harper played on the bulls championship teams! He was in his prime than! Pippen was a three time nba all first team and 8 TIME nba defensive team. 7 TIME all star and NBA TOP 50 GREAT!Kucoc averaged 13 off of the bench! Kobe had a dominate inside force while Jordan had two of the best defenders, and the best rebounder in NBA history. Kobe definately has to win with this team...and a couple times at that!

If Kobe wanted to average 40 a night he could. But he's learning how to win. He is playing his role and is looking good while doing it. He still has another 8-10 years to play. People forgot that he came into the leage at age 17 and was winning rings by the age of 22.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Majmun on May 05, 2008, 08:42:51 AM
Kobe had a dominate inside force had Kobe while Jordan had two of the best defenders, and the best rebounder in NBA history.

Fixt.

Kobe was second fiddle to Shaq in the 00'-02' Lakers' title runs, deal with it.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on May 05, 2008, 08:53:57 AM
Please dont even mention Lebron in the same sentence as Kobe. Kobe is hands down the best player in the league and has been for a few years now.

I agree, but give Lebron a few more years.  He does very well with the cast of players he has at his disposal. 

I agree, to solidify his name with Jordan, he would have to win with this team. Which I think he'll do. People forget that Bynum, who was one of the leagues best big man, is still hurt.

I can't believe you can say this with a straight face.  They have a Pau Gasol.  That guy is a beast, and a bona fide all-star-caliber big man.


But the Lakers are still dominating.The stats about Rodman are true, but it was his defensive and rebounding presence.Rodman won consectutive defense player of the year awards, along with a 6th man of the year award. I dont think Kobe ever had that....He led the league in rebounding while playing with the bulls.  Ron harper played on the bulls championship teams! He was in his prime than! Pippen was a three time nba all first team and 8 TIME nba defensive team. 7 TIME all star and NBA TOP 50 GREAT!Kucoc averaged 13 off of the bench! Kobe had a dominate inside force while Jordan had two of the best defenders, and the best rebounder in NBA history. Kobe definately has to win with this team...and a couple times at that!

Do me a favor and google all of the NBA champions for the past 30 years.

Tell me how many have won without a great big man.  Most of these teams (if not all of them; there are only a few teams of which I do not fully know their rosters) won with not just good big men, but dominating big men.

So, yes, Jordan had good supporting players.  But to win as he did in a totally unorthodox way is much more impressive than Kobe.  I'm sorry.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: gatornation on May 05, 2008, 10:00:33 AM
Lebron gets more points on fewer shots, rebounds more, and gets more assists. There is no empirical evidence that Kobe is better than Lebron.. just a bunch of players who say so. If you need evidence that players' opinions of other players are almost completely worthless, look at the player reactions to the Jason Kidd and Shaq trades, neither of which made any sense statistically and both of which failed miserably.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 05, 2008, 10:40:24 AM
Every team who has won a championship, has two good if not great players.  The lakers do have Pau Gasol who is very talented. Andrew Bynum would only make them that much better.  So who was the fiddle, Magic or Kareem? Lebron is a great player and if you look at shot attempts this year, he led the league in shots. Lebron hasnt learned to do the small things.  He doesnt play defense, is horrible at free throws and has to improve that jumpshot.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Majmun on May 05, 2008, 11:01:59 AM
  So who was the fiddle, Magic or Kareem?

ROFL
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 05, 2008, 11:10:38 AM
  So who was the fiddle, Magic or Kareem?

ROFL

Yes Shaq was the most important part to winning those championships, but we cant conclude that the lakers would have won without Kobe.  They didn't win with Eddie Jones, who was also a all star performer.  And Shaq was there with Eddie Jones...... Every championship team has two or more good players...
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on May 05, 2008, 12:49:47 PM
Every team who has won a championship, has two good if not great players.  The lakers do have Pau Gasol who is very talented. Andrew Bynum would only make them that much better.  So who was the fiddle, Magic or Kareem? Lebron is a great player and if you look at shot attempts this year, he led the league in shots. Lebron hasnt learned to do the small things.  He doesnt play defense, is horrible at free throws and has to improve that jumpshot.

Did you take a look at those championship rosters yet?  And see how many championships have been one without a dominating big man?

Guess what?  MJ won quite a few with a lackluster inside team game.  :P
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 05, 2008, 02:24:47 PM
Every team who has won a championship, has two good if not great players.  The lakers do have Pau Gasol who is very talented. Andrew Bynum would only make them that much better.  So who was the fiddle, Magic or Kareem? Lebron is a great player and if you look at shot attempts this year, he led the league in shots. Lebron hasnt learned to do the small things.  He doesnt play defense, is horrible at free throws and has to improve that jumpshot.

Did you take a look at those championship rosters yet?  And see how many championships have been one without a dominating big man?

I agreed that most championships came with dominant big men.....The only team that I can remember was the pistons. Unless you can ben wallace dominant....

Guess what?  MJ won quite a few with a lackluster inside team game.  :P
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on May 06, 2008, 11:14:32 AM
I agreed that most championships came with dominant big men.....The only team that I can remember was the pistons. Unless you can ben wallace dominant....

The Pistons had Rasheed Wallace.  He's essentially a center, but they put Ben Wallace at center because he's a defensive beast.

Again, MJ could win without a dominating big men.  He might be the only great player to have done so.  That makes him the best player of his era.  While Kobe is the best in the NBA now, he's not the same caliber. I'm sorry. 
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 06, 2008, 01:09:03 PM
I agreed that most championships came with dominant big men.....The only team that I can remember was the pistons. Unless you can ben wallace dominant....

The Pistons had Rasheed Wallace.  He's essentially a center, but they put Ben Wallace at center because he's a defensive beast.

Again, MJ could win without a dominating big men.  He might be the only great player to have done so.  That makes him the best player of his era.  While Kobe is the best in the NBA now,
he's not the same caliber. I'm sorry. 

I guess our word of big man is much different. Rasheed Wallace doesnt even play center and never has. In portland, Sabonis was the center. In Detroit, it was Ben Wallace and now Maxille. I thought you were talking about a true big man. You know a Shaq, Mutumbo, Olajuwon etc....Wallace's main threat is from the perimeter and his three point shot. He isnt dominant in the post and isnt dominate on defense. Nobody fears his defense or shot blocking skills. Jordan didnt have a big man but he had the two best defensive players in the league..if you consider rasheed wallace a big man, than go ahead and put Rodman down.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on May 06, 2008, 01:25:11 PM
I agreed that most championships came with dominant big men.....The only team that I can remember was the pistons. Unless you can ben wallace dominant....

The Pistons had Rasheed Wallace.  He's essentially a center, but they put Ben Wallace at center because he's a defensive beast.

Again, MJ could win without a dominating big men.  He might be the only great player to have done so.  That makes him the best player of his era.  While Kobe is the best in the NBA now,
he's not the same caliber. I'm sorry. 

I guess our word of big man is much different. Rasheed Wallace doesnt even play center and never has. In portland, Sabonis was the center. In Detroit, it was Ben Wallace and now Maxille. I thought you were talking about a true big man. You know a Shaq, Mutumbo, Olajuwon etc....Wallace's main threat is from the perimeter and his three point shot. He isnt dominant in the post and isnt dominate on defense. Nobody fears his defense or shot blocking skills. Jordan didnt have a big man but he had the two best defensive players in the league..if you consider rasheed wallace a big man, than go ahead and put Rodman down.....

The point is that Rasheed Wallace was for all purposes a center masquerading as a power forward.

In Portland, they had Sabonis.  Obviously Sabonis is a good center, but he'd get trounced if he played power forward every night.  Wallace had the versatility to play PF, and play it well, while also playing center if he had to.  Alas, he didn't, due to the team dynamics during his career.

The same goes for Detroit.

As for Rasheed Wallace not being a defensive presence?

He is tied for tenth in active players for career blocks, and he's 40th in the NBA (that includes the ABA) FOR HIS CAREER.

My links are here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_active.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_career.html

If you notice, Ben Wallace is ahead of him in both.  So do you blame the Pistons for doing what they did? 

Instead, that reinforces my point even stronger. The Pistons got the best of both worlds.  They got a two-headed monster.  Big Ben held down the paint at the center spot. while Rasheed Wallace got to feast offensively at the PF spot, while providing great help defense and many blocks. 

Which, again, shows how great MJ was.  You can't even include the Pistons as a team that won without a strong inside game.  It's very hard to argue this.

(And keep in mind that Rasheed Wallace is getting older.  He was much more of an inside player when he was younger.)

EDIT: Rasheed Wallace is also 54th in blocks per game for his career, including the ABA:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_per_g_career.html
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Connelly on May 06, 2008, 01:50:58 PM
It is too early to tell for Kobe.  From an athletic/skills standpoint, I don't see him being vastly different than Jordan.  The ability to win championships is the difference between the two now.  Kobe still has 8-10 years left to catch up in that category, so lets not dump on him too soon. 

Other issues:

- Jordan took essentially 2 years off for baseball.  Had he stayed in the league, I think he could have cemented his place in this argument with 8+ consecutive rings.  I don't know if he could have done that, but it needs to be considered.  Let Kobe take 2 years off to play another sport and see how many rings he ends up with.

- While we may currently have some taller, more athletic players in the NBA, I don't know if the overall level of competition has been as good as times in the past.  I will say that the level of competition is definitely on the upswing, but it's hard finding players now who could make the original Dream Team.  Sure, we've got 7 footers shooting 3's - wait - really think about that.  WTF is a 7 footer doing shooting a 3 to begin with?  I don't know if this is a positive sign or a sign that there aren't enough quality post players in the NBA.  I don't doubt that we might have some better ways to train, diet, etc., but the system in our country that produces players is inferior to what we had 20 years ago.  Excellent athletes are pumped through college quickly (if at all) and then put on the court with less basketball knowledge.  Note how the USA is getting burned in international competition (there are other reasons for this as well).



Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on May 06, 2008, 02:00:14 PM
It is too early to tell for Kobe.  From an athletic/skills standpoint, I don't see him being vastly different than Jordan.  The ability to win championships is the difference between the two now.  Kobe still has 8-10 years left to catch up in that category, so lets not dump on him too soon. 

Fair enough.  I'm not saying that Kobe could not surpass Jordan, but currently it's no contest if we're measuring by the ability to win championships. 

Other issues:

- Jordan took essentially 2 years off for baseball.  Had he stayed in the league, I think he could have cemented his place in this argument with 8+ consecutive rings.  I don't know if he could have done that, but it needs to be considered.  Let Kobe take 2 years off to play another sport and see how many rings he ends up with.

I still cannot believe that he did this. 

- While we may currently have some taller, more athletic players in the NBA, I don't know if the overall level of competition has been as good as times in the past.  I will say that the level of competition is definitely on the upswing, but it's hard finding players now who could make the original Dream Team.  Sure, we've got 7 footers shooting 3's - wait - really think about that.  WTF is a 7 footer doing shooting a 3 to begin with?  I don't know if this is a positive sign or a sign that there aren't enough quality post players in the NBA.  I don't doubt that we might have some better ways to train, diet, etc., but the system in our country that produces players is inferior to what we had 20 years ago.  Excellent athletes are pumped through college quickly (if at all) and then put on the court with less basketball knowledge.  Note how the USA is getting burned in international competition (there are other reasons for this as well).

I agree. This is often an unchallenged assumption. 
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 06, 2008, 02:27:40 PM
I agreed that most championships came with dominant big men.....The only team that I can remember was the pistons. Unless you can ben wallace dominant....

The Pistons had Rasheed Wallace.  He's essentially a center, but they put Ben Wallace at center because he's a defensive beast.

Again, MJ could win without a dominating big men.  He might be the only great player to have done so.  That makes him the best player of his era.  While Kobe is the best in the NBA now,
he's not the same caliber. I'm sorry. 

I guess our word of big man is much different. Rasheed Wallace doesnt even play center and never has. In portland, Sabonis was the center. In Detroit, it was Ben Wallace and now Maxille. I thought you were talking about a true big man. You know a Shaq, Mutumbo, Olajuwon etc....Wallace's main threat is from the perimeter and his three point shot. He isnt dominant in the post and isnt dominate on defense. Nobody fears his defense or shot blocking skills. Jordan didnt have a big man but he had the two best defensive players in the league..if you consider rasheed wallace a big man, than go ahead and put Rodman down.....

The point is that Rasheed Wallace was for all purposes a center masquerading as a power forward.

In Portland, they had Sabonis.  Obviously Sabonis is a good center, but he'd get trounced if he played power forward every night.  Wallace had the versatility to play PF, and play it well, while also playing center if he had to.  Alas, he didn't, due to the team dynamics during his career.

The same goes for Detroit.

As for Rasheed Wallace not being a defensive presence?

He is tied for tenth in active players for career blocks, and he's 40th in the NBA (that includes the ABA) FOR HIS CAREER.

My links are here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_active.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_career.html

If you notice, Ben Wallace is ahead of him in both.  So do you blame the Pistons for doing what they did? 

Instead, that reinforces my point even stronger. The Pistons got the best of both worlds.  They got a two-headed monster.  Big Ben held down the paint at the center spot. while Rasheed Wallace got to feast offensively at the PF spot, while providing great help defense and many blocks. 

Which, again, shows how great MJ was.  You can't even include the Pistons as a team that won without a strong inside game.  It's very hard to argue this.

(And keep in mind that Rasheed Wallace is getting older.  He was much more of an inside player when he was younger.)

EDIT: Rasheed Wallace is also 54th in blocks per game for his career, including the ABA:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_per_g_career.html

If were going to base this whole arguement off of championships, than Bill Russell is the greatest player of all time. Back to Rasheed Wallace. He is a power forward and always will be.  Ben Wallace is a poor man's rodman.  Rodman won numerous defensive player of the year awards and made numerous all star selections.  Rasheed is a deep ball shooter.  He is not feared defensively.  He is bigger than maxille but maxille plays center...? Because Sheed doesnt play like a big man. He cant handle howard down low.

Your right, Kobe still has another ten years left. He came into the leagues straight out of college.  I've always said that the big men from jordans era were better.  But I believe the overall talent today is better.  Athletes are supposed to get bigger, stronger and faster, and they have.  Nobody has addressed the fact that zone defenses werent allowed in jordans era...only if kobe had the privalege of facing man defense night in and night out.  Jordan is the greatest player and to reach his status, Kobe needs a few more rings.  I like the direction the lakers are heading in now.  They are putting together the pieces to have another dynasty...

P.S How long has sheed been in the league 13 years or so? He should be top ten for active players with blocks, look how long he's played.. Who is still active from his era...? and who is still good from his era...?
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 06, 2008, 02:30:23 PM
I agreed that most championships came with dominant big men.....The only team that I can remember was the pistons. Unless you can ben wallace dominant....

The Pistons had Rasheed Wallace.  He's essentially a center, but they put Ben Wallace at center because he's a defensive beast.

Again, MJ could win without a dominating big men.  He might be the only great player to have done so.  That makes him the best player of his era.  While Kobe is the best in the NBA now,
he's not the same caliber. I'm sorry. 

I guess our word of big man is much different. Rasheed Wallace doesnt even play center and never has. In portland, Sabonis was the center. In Detroit, it was Ben Wallace and now Maxille. I thought you were talking about a true big man. You know a Shaq, Mutumbo, Olajuwon etc....Wallace's main threat is from the perimeter and his three point shot. He isnt dominant in the post and isnt dominate on defense. Nobody fears his defense or shot blocking skills. Jordan didnt have a big man but he had the two best defensive players in the league..if you consider rasheed wallace a big man, than go ahead and put Rodman down.....

The point is that Rasheed Wallace was for all purposes a center masquerading as a power forward.

In Portland, they had Sabonis.  Obviously Sabonis is a good center, but he'd get trounced if he played power forward every night.  Wallace had the versatility to play PF, and play it well, while also playing center if he had to.  Alas, he didn't, due to the team dynamics during his career.

The same goes for Detroit.

As for Rasheed Wallace not being a defensive presence?

He is tied for tenth in active players for career blocks, and he's 40th in the NBA (that includes the ABA) FOR HIS CAREER.

My links are here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_active.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_career.html

If you notice, Ben Wallace is ahead of him in both.  So do you blame the Pistons for doing what they did? 

Instead, that reinforces my point even stronger. The Pistons got the best of both worlds.  They got a two-headed monster.  Big Ben held down the paint at the center spot. while Rasheed Wallace got to feast offensively at the PF spot, while providing great help defense and many blocks. 

Which, again, shows how great MJ was.  You can't even include the Pistons as a team that won without a strong inside game.  It's very hard to argue this.

(And keep in mind that Rasheed Wallace is getting older.  He was much more of an inside player when he was younger.)

EDIT: Rasheed Wallace is also 54th in blocks per game for his career, including the ABA:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_per_g_career.html

Elton Brand has been in the league half as long as Sheed and beat him out..and he's only 6'8.Jermaine oneal and ben wallace have also been in the league for shorter periods of time....Look at the people on the whole list..? A lot of them arent respected as defensive players and have never made an all defensive team.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on May 06, 2008, 02:51:48 PM

If were going to base this whole arguement off of championships, than Bill Russell is the greatest player of all time.

It's part of the equation.

MJ is as physically gifted as Kobe, in terms of ability to put up numbers, but he also can win championships without a solid inside game.


This is why Kobe is not as good as MJ...yet.

Back to Rasheed Wallace. He is a power forward and always will be. 

He's a power forward because of the uniqueness of the teams on which he played.

He could've played center if he had to.

Ben Wallace is a poor man's rodman.  Rodman won numerous defensive player of the year awards and made numerous all star selections.

I agree with you here.  However, combined with Rasheed Wallace, the Pistons had at least a solid inside game.

Besides, the point is moot. You provided one possible (and I stress "possible," as I have shown that this is most likely false) counterexample, when the NBA has been around for decades.  Show me another great player that won it all without a solid inside game.
 
  Rasheed is a deep ball shooter.  He is not feared defensively.  He is bigger than maxille but maxille plays center...? Because Sheed doesnt play like a big man. He cant handle howard down low.

How old are you?  (I'm not saying that to be funny.)

Rasheed back in the day had an inside game.  It wasn't that long ago, and I know I'm not TOO old.  (I"m only 24.)

Of course Maxiel plays center. He's: a) younger; b) in the playoffs, they want to keep Wallace fresh offensively and out of foul trouble. 

But I agree that Howard would "probably" win the matchup with Howard in Wallace's prime, but it would be closer than you think. Secondly, how many centers could match Howard?  Even if I concede that Howard would beat Wallace head-to-head, it still doesn't touch my argument that the Pistons had a solid inside game.

 
Your right, Kobe still has another ten years left. He came into the leagues straight out of college.  I've always said that the big men from jordans era were better.  But I believe the overall talent today is better.  Athletes are supposed to get bigger, stronger and faster, and they have.  Nobody has addressed the fact that zone defenses werent allowed in jordans era...only if kobe had the privalege of facing man defense night in and night out.  Jordan is the greatest player and to reach his status, Kobe needs a few more rings.  I like the direction the lakers are heading in now.  They are putting together the pieces to have another dynasty...

I really don't think that the zone defense has done much in the NBA.  Players are too fast and too good of shooters for a zone to do much.  I think Jordan would feast on zones today...

P.S How long has sheed been in the league 13 years or so? He should be top ten for active players with blocks, look how long he's played.. Who is still active from his era...? and who is still good from his era...?

Hence the reason why I edited and even included his blocks per game, since I expected this rebuttal.

He's almost top 50 all-time in blocks per game. 

I'd say he's a decent defensive player.

Are you honestly going to say otherwise?  ???
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 06, 2008, 07:11:53 PM

If were going to base this whole arguement off of championships, than Bill Russell is the greatest player of all time.

It's part of the equation.

MJ is as physically gifted as Kobe, in terms of ability to put up numbers, but he also can win championships without a solid inside game.


This is why Kobe is not as good as MJ...yet.

Back to Rasheed Wallace. He is a power forward and always will be. 

He's a power forward because of the uniqueness of the teams on which he played.

He could've played center if he had to.

Ben Wallace is a poor man's rodman.  Rodman won numerous defensive player of the year awards and made numerous all star selections.

I agree with you here.  However, combined with Rasheed Wallace, the Pistons had at least a solid inside game.

Besides, the point is moot. You provided one possible (and I stress "possible," as I have shown that this is most likely false) counterexample, when the NBA has been around for decades.  Show me another great player that won it all without a solid inside game.
 
  Rasheed is a deep ball shooter.  He is not feared defensively.  He is bigger than maxille but maxille plays center...? Because Sheed doesnt play like a big man. He cant handle howard down low.

How old are you?  (I'm not saying that to be funny.)

Rasheed back in the day had an inside game.  It wasn't that long ago, and I know I'm not TOO old.  (I"m only 24.)

Of course Maxiel plays center. He's: a) younger; b) in the playoffs, they want to keep Wallace fresh offensively and out of foul trouble. 

But I agree that Howard would "probably" win the matchup with Howard in Wallace's prime, but it would be closer than you think. Secondly, how many centers could match Howard?  Even if I concede that Howard would beat Wallace head-to-head, it still doesn't touch my argument that the Pistons had a solid inside game.

 
Your right, Kobe still has another ten years left. He came into the leagues straight out of college.  I've always said that the big men from jordans era were better.  But I believe the overall talent today is better.  Athletes are supposed to get bigger, stronger and faster, and they have.  Nobody has addressed the fact that zone defenses werent allowed in jordans era...only if kobe had the privalege of facing man defense night in and night out.  Jordan is the greatest player and to reach his status, Kobe needs a few more rings.  I like the direction the lakers are heading in now.  They are putting together the pieces to have another dynasty...

I really don't think that the zone defense has done much in the NBA.  Players are too fast and too good of shooters for a zone to do much.  I think Jordan would feast on zones today...

P.S How long has sheed been in the league 13 years or so? He should be top ten for active players with blocks, look how long he's played.. Who is still active from his era...? and who is still good from his era...?

Hence the reason why I edited and even included his blocks per game, since I expected this rebuttal.

He's almost top 50 all-time in blocks per game. 

I'd say he's a decent defensive player.

Are you honestly going to say otherwise?  ???



Sheed is a GREAT player!! One of the most athletic guys I have saw!! But he's not a true big man. He is a tweener...A guy who plays center if he has too.  But coaches would rather get another guy to compliment him.  Jordan had a solid inside game if you take into account Rodman, horace grant, and cartwright.  They dont stand out but they play well together.  Sheed is a very great player and decent on defense. You cant always go off of statistics.  Just because a guy blocks shots doesnt mean he is a good defensive player. Just because a guy leads the league in steals doesnt mean he has good defense. He could just play the passing lanes well.  A good defensive player shuts people down or at least alters there game.  Sheed would never stick a true big man.  Maxiel is much shorter than sheed but plays like a center.

I am not taking anythinng away from Jordan.  Out of all the the championship teams, he had the least to work with down low. But defensively, he had the best.  Show me another team that had 3 all star players, three first team all nba defensive teams, and rodman,jordan and pippen have all won defensive player of the year.  I guarantee you will not find a team who has been equipped with that....

We are talking about the NBA here. Every team has a decent big man now or a good tweener.  Every single team pretty much...Even the horrible teams like the knicks have decent inside players....

Jordan could afford to sick pippen on the drexlers and the best players...Kobe is a first team all defense player and takes on that task night in and night out.  You'll see.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 06, 2008, 07:17:24 PM
We all know that while Jordan may not have had an inside presence, he had the best supporting cast....Any nba analyst or specialist will tell you that.  From armstrong to pippen, to ron harper, to kucoc, to paxson, to rodman..Jordan hands down had the best supporting casts. Hats off to the bulls GM back than.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: UnbiasedObserver on May 07, 2008, 06:03:38 AM
Sheed is a GREAT player!! One of the most athletic guys I have saw!! But he's not a true big man. He is a tweener...A guy who plays center if he has too.  But coaches would rather get another guy to compliment him.  Jordan had a solid inside game if you take into account Rodman, horace grant, and cartwright.  They dont stand out but they play well together.  Sheed is a very great player and decent on defense. You cant always go off of statistics.  Just because a guy blocks shots doesnt mean he is a good defensive player. Just because a guy leads the league in steals doesnt mean he has good defense. He could just play the passing lanes well.  A good defensive player shuts people down or at least alters there game.  Sheed would never stick a true big man.  Maxiel is much shorter than sheed but plays like a center.

I am not taking anythinng away from Jordan.  Out of all the the championship teams, he had the least to work with down low. But defensively, he had the best.  Show me another team that had 3 all star players, three first team all nba defensive teams, and rodman,jordan and pippen have all won defensive player of the year.  I guarantee you will not find a team who has been equipped with that....

We are talking about the NBA here. Every team has a decent big man now or a good tweener.  Every single team pretty much...Even the horrible teams like the knicks have decent inside players....

Jordan could afford to sick pippen on the drexlers and the best players...Kobe is a first team all defense player and takes on that task night in and night out.  You'll see.....

Ok, you admitted that he had the least to work with down low.

That shows his greatness, even with great defensive players.

Look, I"m not looking to demean Kobe.  He's the best in the game today.  But it's going to take a lot for me to believe that he's better than Mike...yet.

Take it easy. 
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Connelly on May 07, 2008, 06:26:57 AM
We all know that while Jordan may not have had an inside presence, he had the best supporting cast....Any nba analyst or specialist will tell you that.  From armstrong to pippen, to ron harper, to kucoc, to paxson, to rodman..Jordan hands down had the best supporting casts. Hats off to the bulls GM back than.....

I do believe he had a good supporting cast with some years much better than others.  However, when he had his best team (Pippen & Rodman), he didn't just win a title - he set the record for regular season wins. 

This year Kobe finally has a good supporting cast.  I would consider it equal or greater to several of Jordan's teams. 
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 07, 2008, 10:24:09 AM
We all know that while Jordan may not have had an inside presence, he had the best supporting cast....Any nba analyst or specialist will tell you that.  From armstrong to pippen, to ron harper, to kucoc, to paxson, to rodman..Jordan hands down had the best supporting casts. Hats off to the bulls GM back than.....

I do believe he had a good supporting cast with some years much better than others.  However, when he had his best team (Pippen & Rodman), he didn't just win a title - he set the record for regular season wins. 

This year Kobe finally has a good supporting cast.  I would consider it equal or greater to several of Jordan's teams. 

I agree. This is the first year Kobe has a real supporting cast.  The thing we have to factor is injuries.  Gasol only played the last 20 games or so. Bynum has been hurt since all star break. And ariza too, is there 2nd best defender.  They won a large amount of games with all these injuries. I look for them to set records when healthy.....
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: blk_reign on May 07, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
20 are u trying to become kobe's wing man? we get it.. u think kobe's best lol
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on May 07, 2008, 01:08:02 PM
20 are u trying to become kobe's wing man? we get it.. u think kobe's best lol

Nah Just a kobe fanatic...thats all lol
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 29, 2008, 06:47:40 AM
Couple months late on this one, but Kobe is superior to Michael Jordan in just about every way.

Kobe has a superior 3 point shot and more range than Jordan. This is undisputed.

Kobe has a better midrange jumper than Jordan. Kobe's fade is about the same, although Kobe can fade from 19 feet accurately where Michael's range topped out at around 12-14 feet.

Kobe and Jordan's passing ability are comparable

Kobe and Jordan's defense are of similar quality. Jordan, at his best, had perhaps the best defensive wing of all time in Pippen playing next to him. Kobe has never had such luxury.

Jordan's more efficient, but this is because Kobe's a better three point shooter and doesn't get nearly the same calls that Jordan got to erase many of his missed FGAs.

Jordan has more career achievements, but also played in an era where, on average, the competition was far below the quality it is today.

Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 29, 2008, 09:07:28 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4kYBeNQdSCc
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: t... on June 29, 2008, 11:30:33 AM
They played in different officiating eras, which is important not to overlook.

While defense was considerably "tougher" during Jordan's era (less bs calls, less flopping, less handcheck calls, etc.), Jordan never had to face the zone or help style defenses that are popular today.

That said, Kobe is more talented, Jordan perhaps slightly more athletic, but far more willful, headstrong, and dominating. At least so far.

It's a push either way. I'd take Kobe in many situations, or Jordan in others. If LeBron ever develops a consistent jump shot and a killer attitude, though, watch out. But right now he's miles from where Kobe and Jordan are.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Sell Out on June 29, 2008, 11:36:49 AM
How is Wilt Chamberlain not on this list?
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: POTUS20 on June 29, 2008, 11:58:11 AM
It is not even close people.

Before going to the Wizards, Jordan played 13 full seasons (although he was injured through most of his second season).  Kobe has played 12.  Jordan led a team to 6 rings.  Kobe led his team to 0 rings.

That being said, Jordan leads Kobe in the following statistical categories over his career: points per game, steals per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, blocks per game, field goal percentage, and basic awesomeness. (And these numbers include the two years he played with the Wizards - far beyond his peak.)

Kobe, on the other hand, leads Jordan in the following categories: personal fouls per game, technical fouls per game, snitching out teammates per season, and rape attempts per career.

Jordan did something at 35 that Kobe can't do at 29 - win a title.  It is not even close.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: wcombs65 on June 29, 2008, 12:01:58 PM
Quote
Couple months late on this one, but Kobe is superior to Michael Jordan in just about every way

Kobe is every bit as talented as Jordan, bur talent alone is not what defines a great athlete.  Jordan had the ability to take over and will his team to victory.  He never would have allowed his team to be up 24 points in a pivotal game in the NBA finals and lose the lead.  He simply wouldn't have allowed it.  That's the difference.  Jordan would not have ever let his team lose that one.  End of argument. 
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: POTUS20 on June 29, 2008, 12:53:22 PM

Kobe, on the other hand, leads Jordan in the following categories: personal fouls per game, technical fouls per game, snitching out teammates per season, and rape attempts per career.


Haha, nice.

Thanks.  And it just happens to be true. 
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Procedure on July 08, 2008, 06:24:54 PM
Kobe isnt even better than Magic.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Diecisiete on July 09, 2008, 04:44:55 PM

Kobe, on the other hand, leads Jordan in the following categories: personal fouls per game, technical fouls per game, snitching out teammates per season, and rape attempts per career.


Haha, nice.

Thanks.  And it just happens to be true. 

MJ leads Kobe in sucker-punching teammates, but I'm sure Purdue and Kerr deserved it.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 09, 2008, 09:17:10 PM
Kobe isnt even better than Magic.

This is laughable.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Procedure on July 09, 2008, 09:19:19 PM
Kobe isnt even better than Magic.

This is laughable.
Are you serious?  Magic could play every position.
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Finesse on July 13, 2008, 02:58:47 PM
 :D Kobe tell me how my ass taste!  :D
Title: Re: MJ OR KOBE?
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on July 13, 2008, 03:57:39 PM
Kobe isnt even better than Magic.

This is laughable.
Are you serious?  Magic could play every position.

No, he couldn't. He played every position only one time in a finals game and he didn't play PF, Center or SF for long stretches. Magic would get dominated at those three positions if he played them frequently.

Kobe is the superior offensive player by a small margin, but Kobe is far and away a better defender than magic ever hoped to be. Kobe's got 6 All Defensive 1st teams to magic's 0.