Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Black Law Students => Topic started by: 1LCorvo on May 20, 2007, 03:58:20 PM

Title: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on May 20, 2007, 03:58:20 PM

(1) Pistons
      v
(2) Cavs

(3) Spurs (1)
      v
(4) Jazz  (0)

Who do you want to win? Who will win?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on May 20, 2007, 04:01:41 PM
The Spurs will win.


I do not like any of the remaining teams but I always like to go with the team with the least odds to win it and I will go with utah.


Spurs Vs Jazz - Spurs in 6, maybe 5


Pistons Vs Cavs-  Pistons in 6


Finals:

Spurs Vs Pistons- Spurs in 6
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 20, 2007, 04:27:49 PM

(1) Pistons
      v
(2) Cavs

(3) Spurs (1)
      v
(4) Jazz  (0)

Who do you want to win? Who will win?


Your sig sucks. No way Jordan would ever be affiliated with Duke ;) If Michael Jordan = Duke, then you're using the wrong category to rank your choices.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on May 20, 2007, 04:36:37 PM

(1) Pistons
      v
(2) Cavs

(3) Spurs (1)
      v
(4) Jazz  (0)

Who do you want to win? Who will win?


Your sig sucks. No way Jordan would ever be affiliated with Duke ;) If Michael Jordan = Duke, then you're using the wrong category to rank your choices.

It's the 1984 draft...Coincidentally, Jordan was the best player in the Draft (IMO), which corresponds to the school I'm going to. It is arbitrary dude lol.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on May 20, 2007, 04:54:27 PM
I feel obligated to change it...damn man.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 20, 2007, 06:26:54 PM
I feel obligated to change it...damn man.

I was just joking, man. lol. But yeah, 1984 draft was kinda crazy. I know one team in particular that made the worst mistake in NBA history.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on May 20, 2007, 07:08:50 PM
I feel obligated to change it...damn man.

I was just joking, man. lol. But yeah, 1984 draft was kinda crazy. I know one team in particular that made the worst mistake in NBA history.

lol '84 was a sick draft (one of the sickest/'03 is close). Sam Bowie over Jordan...I'm sure everyone on the trailblazers'staff got fired after 1991.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on May 20, 2007, 10:01:57 PM
Spurs over Jazz in 5/6

Pistons over Cavs in 6



Pistons over Spurs if their series with the Jazz goes 7
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: cui bono? on May 21, 2007, 10:02:42 AM
Spurs over Jazz in 5/6


Agreed
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Baron on May 21, 2007, 07:07:08 PM
Playoffs are madddd boring right now...Spurs couldn't even sell out their arena.  Once KG goes to the Lakers things should be more interesting next year....but the Spurs will win (unfortunately)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Catherine Morland on May 22, 2007, 11:02:32 AM
Why is everybody hating on the Spurs? It's like you have grudges against them for being good.  Can't a team be respected for being consistent and hardworking?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Baron on May 22, 2007, 12:13:13 PM
Oh I respect em...just don't particularly enjoy their style of play, and the longer they're in, the longer I have to endure it. 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Katie08 on May 22, 2007, 12:25:50 PM
cavs-pistons game yesterday sucked.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 22, 2007, 01:56:26 PM
Why is everybody hating on the Spurs? It's like you have grudges against them for being good.  Can't a team be respected for being consistent and hardworking?

Yeah, if cheating your way into the conference finals merits respect...

not that the Suns deserve any respect with the most over rated player of all time on their roster.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: One Step Ahead on May 22, 2007, 03:07:09 PM
 ??? I wasn't aware Kobe was traded.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on May 22, 2007, 03:16:20 PM
The Spurs will win.


I do not like any of the remaining teams but I always like to go with the team with the least odds to win it and I will go with utah.


Spurs Vs Jazz - Spurs in 6, maybe 5


Pistons Vs Cavs-  Pistons in 6


Finals:

Spurs Vs Pistons- Spurs in 6


This is basically it.  Except I am wishing SO badly that Cleveland wins it all.  But it won't happen.

The moment the Spurs and Jazz won, the playoffs got incredibly boring.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Catherine Morland on May 22, 2007, 03:39:42 PM
Golden State did provide some entertainment against the Mavs. But, honestly, I'd rather see Eva Longoria on the sidelines than Kate Hudson.  :D
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 22, 2007, 04:18:55 PM
??? I wasn't aware Kobe was traded.

Ha!

Just wait until next year.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: kevbar29 on May 22, 2007, 04:33:22 PM
Cavs over Det in 7
Spurs over Utah in 6

ahhh.....I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Cavs upset Spurs in the finals in 6
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 22, 2007, 05:06:09 PM
Cavs over Det in 7
Spurs over Utah in 6

ahhh.....I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Cavs upset Spurs in the finals in 6


lol, cavs will be done in 5.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: kevbar29 on May 22, 2007, 07:59:21 PM
c'mon
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 23, 2007, 08:38:17 AM
Why is everybody hating on the Spurs? It's like you have grudges against them for being good.  Can't a team be respected for being consistent and hardworking?

Yeah, if cheating your way into the conference finals merits respect...

not that the Suns deserve any respect with the most over rated player of all time on their roster.

youre such a hater bond. youre a bad look.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on May 24, 2007, 12:24:55 PM
There a few ways the Cavs can defeat both the Pistons and Spurs:
(1) The planes of both the Spurs and Pistons would have to crash, while all the stars are on board.
(2) The NBA invokes a new rule that allows the Cavs (and the Cavs only) to sign/trade players in the playoff. Then they'll be able to trade their entire roster (except Lebron) for better players.
(3) Or the Cavaliers can drink some of that special water from Space Jams.
(4) Maybe they can resurrect Wilt Chamberlein from the grave, turn him young, then sign him.

Other than that, I don't see it happening.

As for the Spurs, they're an excellent team. They're not exciting like the Warriors or Suns, but they play great basketball. They are like the Patriots to me. I appreciate the fact that good teams are winning in both sports, but I want to see some new blood. It sucks when you are able to predict who is going to win each year (or at least be in contention) before the Season begins. That's why I enjoy March Madness ten times more than the NBA; it's unpredictable until the very end (in most cases).
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on May 24, 2007, 03:02:08 PM
There a few ways the Cavs can defeat both the Pistons and Spurs:
(1) The planes of both the Spurs and Pistons would have to crash, while all the stars are on board.
(2) The NBA invokes a new rule that allows the Cavs (and the Cavs only) to sign/trade players in the playoff. Then they'll be able to trade their entire roster (except Lebron) for better players.
(3) Or the Cavaliers can drink some of that special water from Space Jams.
(4) Maybe they can resurrect Wilt Chamberlein from the grave, turn him young, then sign him.

Other than that, I don't see it happening.

As for the Spurs, they're an excellent team. They're not exciting like the Warriors or Suns, but they play great basketball. They are like the Patriots to me. I appreciate the fact that good teams are winning in both sports, but I want to see some new blood. It sucks when you are able to predict who is going to win each year (or at least be in contention) before the Season begins. That's why I enjoy March Madness ten times more than the NBA; it's unpredictable until the very end (in most cases).

I dunno...when 7 out of 10 people saw Florida's draw this year, you could at least assume they were going to win it all....and OSU was going to the Final four.  Usually there's only 2-3 major surprises a year.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 24, 2007, 09:34:55 PM
Eh, these are some mad boring playoffs. I was hoping the Warriors would beat Utah.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 25, 2007, 09:21:11 AM
worst. playoffs. ever.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on May 25, 2007, 09:38:34 AM
LeBron?  Awesome.

LeBron's team?  f-ing sucks.  What a collection of chokers.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on May 25, 2007, 09:52:13 AM
LeBron?  Awesome.

LeBron's team **minus Booby Gibson**?  f-ing sucks.  What a collection of chokers.


Fixed.

Go Cavs.  Boo refs.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 25, 2007, 10:35:04 AM
Lebron is garbage. He's anti clutch.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 25, 2007, 10:39:10 AM
Lebron is garbage. He's anti clutch.

he was fouled man.  he was fouled

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 25, 2007, 10:40:39 AM
Lebron is garbage. He's anti clutch.

he was fouled man.  he was fouled



Nah man, he knows the refs aren't going to call that ticky tack bs on the game winning play. He should've done what he did last year, travel his way to a layup.


and yes, I'm a hater. ;)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on May 25, 2007, 10:41:30 AM
Lebron is garbage. He's anti clutch.


That is such bull.  Did you watch the playoffs last year?  Even this year!

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 25, 2007, 10:46:54 AM
ha.  you're right, he wasnt going to get that call. labron is getting a rep as being anti clutch.  Thanks to sports writers etc... really he's just young.  I suppose nobody remembers Kobe throwing up airballs and bricks early in his playoffs career.  in L.A., people wanted him gone.  

Anyway, with a rep for being anti clutch, you are not going to get those calls.  he should have dished it, or at least tried to make the freaking shot.  its rip for chrissakes, put your chest in him. and bowl him over - make them call a chargein the final seconds (which is equally unlikely).  

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 25, 2007, 11:09:01 AM
Lebron is garbage. He's anti clutch.


That is such bull.  Did you watch the playoffs last year?  Even this year!



No, not bull. Lebron is a top 10 (i have him at seven) player, but he's a little bit on the anti-clutch side.

I think its the curse of Gilbert Arenas to be honest. Shouldn't have wispered those words to Gil while he was at the line. Karma. Dude has been choking all year long.




Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 25, 2007, 11:11:33 AM
ha.  you're right, he wasnt going to get that call. labron is getting a rep as being anti clutch.  Thanks to sports writers etc... really he's just young.  I suppose nobody remembers Kobe throwing up airballs and bricks early in his playoffs career.  in L.A., people wanted him gone. 

Anyway, with a rep for being anti clutch, you are not going to get those calls.  he should have dished it, or at least tried to make the freaking shot.  its rip for chrissakes, put your chest in him. and bowl him over - make them call a chargein the final seconds (which is equally unlikely). 



Kobe was a rookie though. Lebron is what 22? Kobe was going on his second championship his fourth year in the league. When Kobe was 21, he had already established himself as the league's premier perimeter defender and clutch shooter.

You have to give Lebron credit for leading his team to the ECF...but then you realize, its the ECF.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: LBJFan on May 25, 2007, 11:18:39 AM
As a long-suffering fan of Cleveland sports teams...I just have to say




 :'(




The last time Cleveland was any good (Mark Price, Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance days), they peaked when Chicago was peaking. Not good. Seems like there's another Central division rival thats determined to be our nemesis.


just torturous

But they have to get that young man some REAL help. Larry Hughes was the wrong one for the job. I wish it was possible to fine him everytime he shot less than 40%. He'd be broke

Oh and...they added some pretty significant HELP before Kobe got a chance at the Larry O'Brien. And if you compare Kobe's rookie year to Lebron's you even out the comparison...even with Lebron playing more significant minutes as the immediate franchise guy.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on May 25, 2007, 11:52:56 AM
Lebron will never be as good as Kobe, because it seems like the Cavs are content to never give Kobe the tag team partner or supporting cast that Kobe got that 3 out of 4 run.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 25, 2007, 12:00:06 PM
ha.  you're right, he wasnt going to get that call. labron is getting a rep as being anti clutch.  Thanks to sports writers etc... really he's just young.  I suppose nobody remembers Kobe throwing up airballs and bricks early in his playoffs career.  in L.A., people wanted him gone. 

Anyway, with a rep for being anti clutch, you are not going to get those calls.  he should have dished it, or at least tried to make the freaking shot.  its rip for chrissakes, put your chest in him. and bowl him over - make them call a chargein the final seconds (which is equally unlikely). 



Kobe was a rookie though. Lebron is what 22? Kobe was going on his second championship his fourth year in the league. When Kobe was 21, he had already established himself as the league's premier perimeter defender and clutch shooter.

You have to give Lebron credit for leading his team to the ECF...but then you realize, its the ECF.


come on man.  shaq in his prime?  ilgouskis?  dude.  kobe wasn't even the clutch guy on those teams; it was horry, fisher, and even fox.  those were the lakers I hated to see with the ball at the last moment; not kobe, who I knew would shoot some crazy shot that would likely brick.  lebron will be better than kobe.  He just hasn't had the benefit of playing with/for winners.  He is having to learn that on his own.  It could take awhile before he develops that knack for winning.  even so, he's in the ECF, and the series is not over.         
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on May 25, 2007, 12:13:17 PM
Lebron will never be as good as Kobe, because it seems like the Cavs are content to never give Kobe the tag team partner or supporting cast that Kobe got that 3 out of 4 run.

I'm not sure content is the word, more like misguided.  They thought Larry Hughes was that tag-team partner; at the time, so did most everyone else.  Hughes was a 20+ ppg guy, a great defender (steals), with a propensity to be injured.  Now we look at that move and realize it was crappy: he's streaky (and his lows are reeeaaaally low), far more injury-prone than most even expected, and he isn't all that good drawing defenders when he drives.  Hindsight....  Anyway, it's not for lack of trying.  I'm pretty sure Dan Gilbert, et al., won't be content until they get someone who truly complements LBJ.  It's too bad they couldn't get Ray Allen last year, or Bibby, for that matter.   
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 25, 2007, 12:17:25 PM
ha.  you're right, he wasnt going to get that call. labron is getting a rep as being anti clutch.  Thanks to sports writers etc... really he's just young.  I suppose nobody remembers Kobe throwing up airballs and bricks early in his playoffs career.  in L.A., people wanted him gone. 

Anyway, with a rep for being anti clutch, you are not going to get those calls.  he should have dished it, or at least tried to make the freaking shot.  its rip for chrissakes, put your chest in him. and bowl him over - make them call a chargein the final seconds (which is equally unlikely). 



Kobe was a rookie though. Lebron is what 22? Kobe was going on his second championship his fourth year in the league. When Kobe was 21, he had already established himself as the league's premier perimeter defender and clutch shooter.

You have to give Lebron credit for leading his team to the ECF...but then you realize, its the ECF.


come on man.  shaq in his prime?  ilgouskis?  dude. kobe wasn't even the clutch guy on those teams; it was horry, fisher, and even fox.  those were the lakers I hated to see with the ball at the last moment; not kobe, who I knew would shoot some crazy shot that would likely brick.  lebron will be better than kobe.  He just hasn't had the benefit of playing with/for winners.  He is having to learn that on his own.  It could take awhile before he develops that knack for winning.  even so, he's in the ECF, and the series is not over.         

LMAO....

See Eight minutes of clutch shots by Kobe
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NwnKpUGfl4Y
Educate yourself, man


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant
Quote
Awards and achievements

Career highlights

    * 3-time NBA Champion: 2000, 2001, 2002
    * 2-time Scoring Champion: 2006, 2007
    * 9-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007

        * Has started in each of his appearances
        * 9 consecutive appearances (No All-Star game in 1999 due to league-wide lock-out)

    * 2-time NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2002, 2007
    * 9-time All-NBA Selection:

        * First Team: 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007
        * Second Team: 2000, 2001
        * Third Team: 1999, 2005

    * 7-time All-Defensive Selection:

        * First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007
        * Second Team: 2001, 2002

    * NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1997
    * NBA All-Star Slam Dunk Champion: 1997
    * NBA regular season leader in:

        * points: 2003 (2,461), 2006 (2,832, 7th highest in NBA history), 2007 (2,430)
        * points per game: 2006 (35.4, 9th highest in NBA history), 2007 (31.6)
        * field goals attempted: 2006 (2,173), 2007 (1,757)
        * field goals made: 2003 (868), 2006 (978), 2007 (813)
        * free throws attempted: 2007 (768)
        * free throws made: 2006 (696), 2007 (667)

    * 2nd most points in a Game: 81 (January 22, 2006 vs. the Toronto Raptors)

NBA milestones

    * Youngest player in NBA history to reach:

        * 10,000 points (24 years, 194 days), set March 5, 2003 vs. the Indiana Pacers.
        * 14,000 points (26 years, 240 days), set April 20, 2005 vs. the Portland Trail Blazers.
        * 15,000 points (27 years, 136 days), set January 6, 2006 vs. the Philadelphia 76ers.
        * 16,000 points (27 years, 192 days), set March 3, 2006 vs. the Golden State Warriors.
        * 17,000 points (28 years, 86 days), set November 17, 2006 vs. the Toronto Raptors.
        * 18,000 points (28 years, 156 days), set January 26, 2007 vs. the Charlotte Bobcats.[15]
        * 19,000 points (28 years, 223 days), set April 3, 2007 vs. the Denver Nuggets.

    * Youngest player to start an NBA game (18 years, 158 days), making his first start for the Los Angeles Lakers on January 28, 1997.
    * Youngest player to start an NBA All-Star Game (19 years, 175 days), making his debut at the 48th annual All-Star Game at Madison Square Garden on February 8, 1998.
    * Youngest player to be named to the NBA All-Defensive Team (1999-2000)[16]
    * Youngest player to be named to the NBA All-Rookie Team (1996-1997)[16]
    * Youngest NBA All-Star Slam Dunk champion (18 years, 175 days), after winning the contest at the 1997 NBA All-Star Weekend.

NBA records

Kobe Bryant holds or shares seven NBA records:

    * Most three-point field goals made, one game: 12 (January 7, 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics; shared with Donyell Marshall)[17]
    * Most three-point field goals made, one half: 8 (March 28, 2003 vs. Washington Wizards; shared with 5 players).[17]
    * Most consecutive three-point field goals made, one game: 9 (January 7, 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics; shared with Latrell Sprewell and Ben Gordon).[18]
    * Most free throws made, one quarter: 14 (3rd quarter, December 20, 2005 vs. Dallas Mavericks; shared with 5 players).[19][20]
    * Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 16 (3rd quarter, December 20, 2005 vs. Dallas Mavericks; shared with 6 players).[19][20]
    * Holds shot-clock era records for:

        * Greatest percentage of own team's point total (66.4% of the Lakers' 122 points) (set on January 22, 2006 vs. the Toronto Raptors).
        * Greatest percentage of both teams' combined point total (35.8% of the Lakers' and Raptors' 226 points) (Also set on January 22, 2006 vs. the Toronto Raptors).

Lakers franchise records

Kobe Bryant holds or shares 28 Los Angeles Lakers franchise records:

    * Points

        * Season: 2,832 (2005-06; 7th highest NBA single season scoring output of all-time)
        * Game: 81 (January 22, 2006 vs. Toronto Raptors)[21]
        * Half: 55 (2nd half, January 22, 2006 vs. Toronto Raptors).[21]
        * Quarter: 30 (twice, most recently on November 30, 2006 in 3rd quarter vs. Utah Jazz)[21]
        * Games scoring 50 points or more, all-time: 21[16]
        * Games scoring 50 points or more, season: 10 (2006-07)[16]
        * Games scoring 40 points or more, season: 27 (2005-06)[22]
        * Consecutive games of 50 points or more: 4 (March 16–23 2007)[23]
        * Consecutive games of 40 points or more: 9 (February 6–February 23, 2003)[24]
        * Consecutive games of 20 points or more, season: 62 (December 9, 2005]–April 19, 2006)

    * Field goals made

        * Half: 18 (2nd half, January 22, 2006 vs. Toronto Raptors).[25]
        * Quarter: 11 (February 2, 1999 vs. Seattle SuperSonics).[26]

    * Free throws made

        * Game: 23 (twice, most recently on January 31, 2006 vs. New York Knicks).[27]
        * Half: 16 (January 30, 2001 vs. Cleveland Cavaliers)[28]
        * Quarter: 14 (3rd quarter, December 20, 2005 vs. Dallas Mavericks)[29]
        * Quarter, playoffs: 11 (tied with 3 players; May 8, 1997 vs. Utah Jazz).[30]
        * Consecutive: 62 (January 11–22, 2006).[21]

    * Three-point field goals made

        * All-time: 936 (1996–present)[1]
        * All-time, playoffs: 145 (1996–present)[31]
        * Game: 12 (January 7, 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics).[18]
        * Half: 8 (1st half, March 28, 2003 vs. Washington Wizards).[32]
        * Consecutive: 9 (January 7, 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics).[18]
        * All-time, playoffs: 410 (1996–present)[33]
        * Season: 518 (2005-06)[1]
        * Game: 18 (January 7, 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics).[18]

    * Steals

        * Half: 6 (tied with 3 players; February 13, 2006 vs. Utah Jazz).[34]
        * Quarter, playoffs: 3 (tied with 6 players; May 17, 1999 vs. San Antonio Spurs).[35]


You do understand that that isn't including the scoring feats that only tie Wilt....comon, now. Lebron will be lucky to accomplish half of what Kobe has. Kobe has been in the top 5 of MVP voting 6 times in his career and top 10 every year except one and Kobe isn't even close to being done yet, he's got 5-6 good years left.

IMO, look at the 5:11 mark -5:40 mark of the video where Kobe hits a clutch 3 to tie the game and then a 3 to win the game to win the Pacific Division on the last day of the regular season.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on May 25, 2007, 12:20:35 PM
I'm sure Kobe's getting a kick out of watching the NBA Playoffs from home right now, too.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 25, 2007, 12:22:56 PM
I'm sure Kobe's getting a kick out of watching the NBA Playoffs from home right now, too.

Yeah, and I'm sure Lebron would be at home if he actually played in a decent conference

Congratulations on getting past a gilbert-less and caron-less wizards team and the 7th seed Nets. Now that you have some real competition, you're down 0-2. Lebron will be joining Kobe in less than a week. :)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on May 25, 2007, 12:25:34 PM
I'm sure Kobe's getting a kick out of watching the NBA Playoffs from home right now, too.

Yeah, and I'm sure Lebron would be at home if he actually played in a decent conference

Congratulations on getting past a gilbert-less wizards team and the 7th seed Nets. Now that you have some real competition, you're down 0-2. Lebron will be joining Kobe in less than a week. :)

That may be the case, but it seems like the excuses you're giving are a lot like those offered by the folks defending LeBron's career up to this point. 

FWIW, that last comment was more or less just to get your blood pumping :)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 25, 2007, 12:34:08 PM
I'm sure Kobe's getting a kick out of watching the NBA Playoffs from home right now, too.

Yeah, and I'm sure Lebron would be at home if he actually played in a decent conference

Congratulations on getting past a gilbert-less wizards team and the 7th seed Nets. Now that you have some real competition, you're down 0-2. Lebron will be joining Kobe in less than a week. :)

That may be the case, but it seems like the excuses you're giving are a lot like those offered by the folks defending LeBron's career up to this point. 

FWIW, that last comment was more or less just to get your blood pumping :)

Nope. I was just responding to the point that Kobe wasn't the most clutch Laker on the 3 peat team and that Lebron is going to be better than Kobe. Lebron is arguably Kobe's level as a ball player (if you ignore defense and intangibles like mental toughness and clutch shooting), yes...but he's no where near Kobe in terms of accolades or accomplishments.

But I don't want to turn the playoffs thread into a Kobe v. Lebron thing, so I'll digress.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on May 25, 2007, 12:51:11 PM
I agree with you there... Kobe has one of the most impressive resumes around and LeBron would be lucky to equal it. 

Anyway, what's crazy to me is how this Cavs-Pistons series could just as easily be 2-0 in the opposite direction; that may be the joy in sports, but it's giving me an ulcer.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 25, 2007, 12:58:42 PM
I'm sure Kobe's getting a kick out of watching the NBA Playoffs from home right now, too.

Yeah, and I'm sure Lebron would be at home if he actually played in a decent conference

Congratulations on getting past a gilbert-less wizards team and the 7th seed Nets. Now that you have some real competition, you're down 0-2. Lebron will be joining Kobe in less than a week. :)

That may be the case, but it seems like the excuses you're giving are a lot like those offered by the folks defending LeBron's career up to this point. 

FWIW, that last comment was more or less just to get your blood pumping :)

Nope. I was just responding to the point that Kobe wasn't the most clutch Laker on the 3 peat team and that Lebron is going to be better than Kobe. Lebron is arguably Kobe's level as a ball player (if you ignore defense and intangibles like mental toughness and clutch shooting), yes...but he's no where near Kobe in terms of accolades or accomplishments.

But I don't want to turn the playoffs thread into a Kobe v. Lebron thing, so I'll digress.

come on man.  half of those games are regular season, out of conference games.  they were probably out in front of the west by like 10 games those years too.  not my definition clutch, these meaningless games.  I stopped watching reg season in high school.

the proof is in the pudding.  Kobe has done nothing without shaq.  and that three in the finals against detroit must've have been his only one, because dude STUNK up the joint that series.

Lebron may never score 80 points, but I'm predicting dude comes closest to averaging a triple double since oscar o.  I also think the kid wins some championships as the main guy, something kobe will never do.  I stand by my statement.  Horry was the Lakers clutch guy.  Fox and Fisher pulled them out of jams too.  Kobe missed as many as he made down the stretch in big games.  and towards the end (when malone and payton were there) kobe put them in more jams than he got them out of.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on May 25, 2007, 01:02:08 PM
I'm sure Kobe's getting a kick out of watching the NBA Playoffs from home right now, too.

Yeah, and I'm sure Lebron would be at home if he actually played in a decent conference

Congratulations on getting past a gilbert-less and caron-less wizards team and the 7th seed Nets. Now that you have some real competition, you're down 0-2. Lebron will be joining Kobe in less than a week. :)

TITCR.

The Cavs would be nothing more than TTT (third tier trash) in the Western Conference against the likes of the Suns, Spurs, Mavs, Rockets, Jazz, Lakers, Nuggets, even the Warriors would probably wear them out.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on May 25, 2007, 01:10:34 PM
I'm sure Kobe's getting a kick out of watching the NBA Playoffs from home right now, too.

Yeah, and I'm sure Lebron would be at home if he actually played in a decent conference

Congratulations on getting past a gilbert-less and caron-less wizards team and the 7th seed Nets. Now that you have some real competition, you're down 0-2. Lebron will be joining Kobe in less than a week. :)

TITCR.

The Cavs would be nothing more than TTT (third tier trash) in the Western Conference against the likes of the Suns, Spurs, Mavs, Rockets, Jazz, Lakers, Nuggets, even the Warriors would probably wear them out.

Check your facts.  They swept the Spurs in the regular season, they have a winning record against the Rockets, Lakers and Jazz.  They would compete just fine.  As it is, they are in the best division in the admittedly depleted LEast, but I'm pretty sure they would make it to the playoffs.

Edit: Cavs v. Utah: 1-1           Dallas: 0-2         San Antonio: 2-0        Golden State: 2-0
           v. Phoenix: 0-2        LAL: 2-0            Houston: 1-1            Denver: 1-1
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on May 25, 2007, 01:39:41 PM
Playoffs vs regular seasons....where they only play once or twice


That's like saying the Marlins are better than the BoSox because they beat them in an interleague series...

I would like to see how they would do against the Spurs if the spurs had to plan on playing them 6-10 times a season...


Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: cui bono? on May 25, 2007, 02:18:23 PM
The playoffs (what I saw of them) were sad this year.   :-\


LeBron?  all I have to say is  ::)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on May 25, 2007, 02:27:06 PM
The playoffs NBA (what I saw of them it) were was sad this year.   :-\


LeBron?  all I have to say is  ::)


Fixt
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: cui bono? on May 25, 2007, 02:28:10 PM
The playoffs NBA (what I saw of them it) were was sad this year.   :-\


LeBron?  all I have to say is  ::)


Fixt

Word.  Thank you!!!  That's exactly what I meant to say
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on May 25, 2007, 02:34:47 PM
I do what I can...  8)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 25, 2007, 02:35:36 PM
Lebrons the TROOF
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: cui bono? on May 25, 2007, 03:10:58 PM
LOL
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 25, 2007, 03:11:30 PM
LOL

But you were right though about Lebron. That's why you're my favorite.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: cui bono? on May 25, 2007, 03:12:08 PM
LOL

But you were right though about Lebron. That's why you're my favorite.

 :)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on May 25, 2007, 03:13:11 PM
I know he's outmatched by Wallace/Prince, but when is Gooden going to try to step up?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: kevbar29 on May 29, 2007, 08:13:26 PM
Cavs over Det in 7
Spurs over Utah in 6

ahhh.....I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Cavs upset Spurs in the finals in 6


lol, cavs will be done in 5.

Whatup now toby
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 29, 2007, 08:49:42 PM
Toby's basketball acumen is severely wanting.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 29, 2007, 09:22:06 PM
Toby's basketball acumen is severely wanting.

Whatever, son. I pwn you with sports knowledge.

So my prediction is wrong. Congrats to Lebron. Can't hate on success.

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on May 29, 2007, 10:27:41 PM
<--- very impressed by Gibson tonight
<--- not often impressed by young basketball players
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 30, 2007, 01:48:16 AM
W H E R E is Bond and the rest of the Lebron Haters???

Not Clutch, he is like an 18 wheeler.  Killing them out there.  haha.  Kobe has never been this good.  I've never seen Kobe make good decisions regarding passing/NOT passing the ball that did not include him dumping it to a 370 pound monster in the paint, even then he'd get confused see how Pistons dismantled them in 04 because Kobe would not pass the ball! Lebron is running the show out there.  HE'S 22!!!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 30, 2007, 05:49:48 AM
W H E R E is Bond and the rest of the Lebron Haters???

Not Clutch, he is like an 18 wheeler.  Killing them out there.  haha.  Kobe has never been this good.  I've never seen Kobe make good decisions regarding passing/NOT passing the ball that did not include him dumping it to a 370 pound monster in the paint, even then he'd get confused see how Pistons dismantled them in 04 because Kobe would not pass the ball! Lebron is running the show out there.  HE'S 22!!!

LMAO...Kobe was better than Lebron at 22. To argue this is silly. Lebron is leading his team, but Kobe was a more impressive basketball player all around...AND was winning rings.

Kobe and Lebron's PER at 22 was both 24.5
Kobe scored more points.
The rebounding difference was insignifcant and Kobe was regarded along with Doug Christie as the primier perimeter defender in the league.

So when Lebron wins 3 rings...hits game winners in the finals while playing all league defense at such a young age...call me. Until then, he's the flavor of the month.

Kobe at 22:

ALL NBA 1st Team
All NBA Defensive 1st team
NBA All Star MVP
NBA Champion


Lebron at 22:

All NBA Second team.


um, yeah.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 30, 2007, 06:08:50 AM
no foresight.  Kobes first trip to the playoffs???? dude is throwing airballs up against the jazz, getting the lakers knocked out.  lebrons first year?  dude goes past the wizards in a CLUTCH performance.  2 year?  Kobe had a great team around him and was young enough and naive enough to not hog the freaking ball.  That said, he was not running his team!!!  he never has done this, and won!  All those years he was a glorified wing man. Lebron takes the ball up the court and distributes.  The offense goes through him.  The years the Lakers won, it went through shaq.  The rebounding difference is not negligible.  Lebron avg's almost two more rebounds a game.  Lebron is the complete player.  He has been close to triple double numbers this series.  everytime he steps on the court :2004-05: Played in a total of 80 games (80 starts)…averaged career-highs of 27.2 points, 7.4 rebounds, 7.2 assists and 2.21 steals per game at twenty dude!!!
Team in 2005-06, averaging 31.4 points, 7.0 rebounds and 6.6 assists …--at 21!! kpbe has never averaged over 6 assists, maybe once.  and rarely does 6 rebounds.

Kobe has missed more than 15 games 4 seasons.  and kobe is the more complete player?  Kobe is a scorer, period.    It took kobe til he was 22 to get a triple double.  lebron did this at 19.  Lebron is a BEAST!  He is a monster compared to other two guards.  He will only get better.   
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 30, 2007, 06:56:44 AM
Kobe in 2002-2003 averaged 30, 6, and 7 along with being an all leage defender. In 03-04, he averaged 27, 6 and 6. In 00-01 he averaged 28.5, 6 and 5 while being an elite defender. You'll note those are abosolutely beasting numbers for a SG and that's not even including the seasons where he just went nuts. You'll also not that James is a SF (not a 2 guard) who plays on the block where rebouding is easier than when you defend on the perimeter. Next time Lebron gets an offensive rebound with 2 seconds left on the clock and puts it back in to win the game in the conference finals (See Blazers 2000), then you can tell me the rebounding difference is great.

Is Lebron a phenomenal talent and a great player at such a young age? Yes. But he's not better than Kobe at the same age. Yes, Kobe played with Shaq....but Kobe played with Shaq and his numbers were still comparable to lebron in both scoring and rebounding...

But, Lebron is good. I'm happy for him. If he wins the championship this year, then he'll be regarded as on Kobe's level as an overall player. Short of that, no way in hell.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 30, 2007, 07:46:01 AM
Kobe played with Shaq...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 30, 2007, 08:49:03 AM
Kobe in 2002-2003 averaged 30, 6, and 7 along with being an all leage defender. In 03-04, he averaged 27, 6 and 6. In 00-01 he averaged 28.5, 6 and 5 while being an elite defender. You'll note those are abosolutely beasting numbers for a SG and that's not even including the seasons where he just went nuts. You'll also not that James is a SF (not a 2 guard) who plays on the block where rebouding is easier than when you defend on the perimeter. Next time Lebron gets an offensive rebound with 2 seconds left on the clock and puts it back in to win the game in the conference finals (See Blazers 2000), then you can tell me the rebounding difference is great.

Is Lebron a phenomenal talent and a great player at such a young age? Yes. But he's not better than Kobe at the same age. Yes, Kobe played with Shaq....but Kobe played with Shaq and his numbers were still comparable to lebron in both scoring and rebounding...

But, Lebron is good. I'm happy for him. If he wins the championship this year, then he'll be regarded as on Kobe's level as an overall player. Short of that, no way in hell.

Kobe is McGrady and Carter who had the benefit of shaq.  We have never seen a player like LeBron.  He is mature beyond his years...He is LEADING his team.  He may be listed as a small F, but he brings the ball down court on almost every possesion.  Everything flows through him.  Kobe is NOT a leader on the court, or in the locker room.  He brings dissent.  Kobe single handedly lost the that Detroit series.  He may average forty points a game, but I would still maintain he is not as good as Lebron. 

Averaging 6 assists is childs play when you have Shaq in the middle, still Kobe has only managed this a couple times, if that.  Notice that every two guard Shaq has been healthy with has been successful and gone to the Finals.  Perimeter defense?  Lebron is giving Rip and Billups hell!  At the same age? Its not even close...Kobe was an immature little punk, Lebron is inspiring veterans to step up.  He gets the ball to the right people.  Kobe passes when he gets stuck in the air.  Conversely, Lebron sets it up so the hot shooter gets the ball.  Kobe has never learned to do that.  Lebron is a better player 4 years into the league.

Also, perimeter defense?  Are their any elite two guards out west>??  whos he guarding thats so special??? 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 30, 2007, 11:03:29 AM
Kobe played with Shaq...

So?

Shaq played with Kobe...what's your point?

Shaq was 3 times finals MVP....but Kobe was playoff MVP (if one was given) in 2 out of 3 of those. Leading team past the blazers, spurs, etc while Shaq was on the bench because he couldn't hit free throws.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 30, 2007, 11:04:45 AM
Kobe in 2002-2003 averaged 30, 6, and 7 along with being an all leage defender. In 03-04, he averaged 27, 6 and 6. In 00-01 he averaged 28.5, 6 and 5 while being an elite defender. You'll note those are abosolutely beasting numbers for a SG and that's not even including the seasons where he just went nuts. You'll also not that James is a SF (not a 2 guard) who plays on the block where rebouding is easier than when you defend on the perimeter. Next time Lebron gets an offensive rebound with 2 seconds left on the clock and puts it back in to win the game in the conference finals (See Blazers 2000), then you can tell me the rebounding difference is great.

Is Lebron a phenomenal talent and a great player at such a young age? Yes. But he's not better than Kobe at the same age. Yes, Kobe played with Shaq....but Kobe played with Shaq and his numbers were still comparable to lebron in both scoring and rebounding...

But, Lebron is good. I'm happy for him. If he wins the championship this year, then he'll be regarded as on Kobe's level as an overall player. Short of that, no way in hell.

Kobe is McGrady and Carter who had the benefit of shaq.  We have never seen a player like LeBron.  He is mature beyond his years...He is LEADING his team.  He may be listed as a small F, but he brings the ball down court on almost every possesion.  Everything flows through him.  Kobe is NOT a leader on the court, or in the locker room.  He brings dissent.  Kobe single handedly lost the that Detroit series.  He may average forty points a game, but I would still maintain he is not as good as Lebron. 

Averaging 6 assists is childs play when you have Shaq in the middle, still Kobe has only managed this a couple times, if that.  Notice that every two guard Shaq has been healthy with has been successful and gone to the Finals.  Perimeter defense?  Lebron is giving Rip and Billups hell!  At the same age? Its not even close...Kobe was an immature little punk, Lebron is inspiring veterans to step up.  He gets the ball to the right people.  Kobe passes when he gets stuck in the air.  Conversely, Lebron sets it up so the hot shooter gets the ball.  Kobe has never learned to do that.  Lebron is a better player 4 years into the league.

Also, perimeter defense?  Are their any elite two guards out west>??  whos he guarding thats so special??? 


You've got to be kidding.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 30, 2007, 11:20:46 AM
who?? Mc Grady has been hurt since he went west.  Who?  Seriously?  When Kobe developed this rep as a great perimeter defender, who was he guarding night in night out in the west>?

Ginoboli?  Ray Allen - for a minute, but he had this "rep" before him.  who?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 30, 2007, 11:58:42 AM
who?? Mc Grady has been hurt since he went west.  Who?  Seriously?  When Kobe developed this rep as a great perimeter defender, who was he guarding night in night out in the west>?

Ginoboli?  Ray Allen - for a minute, but he had this "rep" before him.  who?

What two guard was there in the league when michael jordan was playing that besides michael was even on a Tmac level? Does that mean Jordan is an overrated defender? Its not about who you defend, it is about how you defend.

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 30, 2007, 12:22:42 PM
Kobe played with Shaq...

So?

Shaq played with Kobe...what's your point?

Shaq was 3 times finals MVP....but Kobe was playoff MVP (if one was given) in 2 out of 3 of those. Leading team past the blazers, spurs, etc while Shaq was on the bench because he couldn't hit free throws.

How many rings has Kobe won without Shaq? Hell, how many playoff series has he won?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Baron on May 30, 2007, 12:36:25 PM
no long response, but I'm goin w/ Kobe on this one...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 30, 2007, 12:42:23 PM
Kobe played with Shaq...

So?

Shaq played with Kobe...what's your point?

Shaq was 3 times finals MVP....but Kobe was playoff MVP (if one was given) in 2 out of 3 of those. Leading team past the blazers, spurs, etc while Shaq was on the bench because he couldn't hit free throws.

How many rings has Kobe won without Shaq? Hell, how many playoff series has he won?

yeh...and you think Lebron would be in the WCF? hahaha...what?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 30, 2007, 12:54:24 PM
he'd win a series.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on May 30, 2007, 12:57:48 PM
he'd win a series.

Agreed.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 30, 2007, 01:00:36 PM
he'd win a series.

nope...they would be a 6th, 7th or 8th seed. No way they beat SA, Phx, or Mavs.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 30, 2007, 01:51:12 PM
says the Pistons in 5 guy...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on May 30, 2007, 01:56:48 PM
This argument is ridiculous, guys.  It simply cannot be made until LeBron is 26/27 and has a better cast around him.  As it stands, each player has his own superlatives, and they're pretty much even. 

One thing that CANNOT be denied, however, is that Kobe would not have those three rings without Shaq.  So you may as well throw that one out the door.  That said, they're still pretty much even.

My take?  LeBron is a more talented basketball player, and will be the better one all around when their careers are finished.  But right now, Kobe's earned the rep, and deserves it.  It's up to LeBron to show what he's made of.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 30, 2007, 02:26:22 PM
who?? Mc Grady has been hurt since he went west.  Who?  Seriously?  When Kobe developed this rep as a great perimeter defender, who was he guarding night in night out in the west>?

Ginoboli?  Ray Allen - for a minute, but he had this "rep" before him.  who?

What two guard was there in the league when michael jordan was playing that besides michael was even on a Tmac level? Does that mean Jordan is an overrated defender? Its not about who you defend, it is about how you defend.



Man, Jordan just checked the best player that played 1 through 3.  Could have been Larry, Dominique Wilkens, Magic, Starks, Dumars, Thomas, Jordan guarded some solid people in a no - zone NBA.  He earned his rep. 

And why does everyone make a big deal about the West??  when's the last time the won a championship series?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 30, 2007, 02:50:56 PM
who?? Mc Grady has been hurt since he went west.  Who?  Seriously?  When Kobe developed this rep as a great perimeter defender, who was he guarding night in night out in the west>?

Ginoboli?  Ray Allen - for a minute, but he had this "rep" before him.  who?

What two guard was there in the league when michael jordan was playing that besides michael was even on a Tmac level? Does that mean Jordan is an overrated defender? Its not about who you defend, it is about how you defend.



Man, Jordan just checked the best player that played 1 through 3.  Could have been Larry, Dominique Wilkens, Magic, Starks, Dumars, Thomas, Jordan guarded some solid people in a no - zone NBA.  He earned his rep. 

And why does everyone make a big deal about the West??  when's the last time the won a championship series?

Right...except Kobe gained his rep from guarding Jordan himself in 97. That's when people first realized he was a tenacious defender. Then has guarded PG, SG, and SF since then. Kobe always guards the opposing teams most potent offensive threat irrespective of position at leat for important stretches...whether it be McGrady, Lebron, Steve Nash, D-wade, AI, Ray Allen, Carmelo....

the fact that you would argue this is ridiculous...Kobe is guarding people in the handcheck era and still being an incredible defender. lol.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Baron on May 30, 2007, 03:18:00 PM
Lebron does not strike fear into the heart of his opponents (complete speculation on my part)....and the reason the west is a big deal is because they are a stronger conference top to bottom, thus players in the west face stiffer competition throughout the year..which in turn affects playoff seeding etc...maybe the the conferences are even at the top (maybe), but something has to be said for facing western conference competition day in and day out...put the lakers in the east and they're probably a 3 or 4 seed
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 30, 2007, 05:36:46 PM
I'd rather play zone and have no hand check than play man and have handcheck?? in zone who are you guarding anyway? 

I don't remember any stunning defensive play by kobe, ever.  its all hype.  when AI played the Lakers in the finals Fish guarded him, and Tyrone Lue.  Kobe was not checking him.  Allen goes off on the Lakers routinely.  McGrady has been *&^% since he left Orlando.  All the players you named get theirs, and Kobe loses the game to boot.  Kobe has had some of the friendliest press since hes entered the league.  it's ridiculous.  I don't see this tenacious D.  Jordan was a tenacious defender.  All that said, Kobe probably is a better defender than Lebron.  At this point, thats the part of Lebrons game that needs the most work.  However, do you watch the games?  You can't tell me Kobe does the things Lebron does to win games?  Lebron includes everybody.  He runs his team.  This latest *&^% with Kobe tells you the type of player he is - selfish. 

   
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on May 30, 2007, 07:49:48 PM
I'd rather play zone and have no hand check than play man and have handcheck?? in zone who are you guarding anyway? 

I don't remember any stunning defensive play by kobe, ever.  its all hype.  when AI played the Lakers in the finals Fish guarded him, and Tyrone Lue.  Kobe was not checking him.  Allen goes off on the Lakers routinely.  McGrady has been sh*t since he left Orlando.  All the players you named get theirs, and Kobe loses the game to boot.  Kobe has had some of the friendliest press since hes entered the league.  it's ridiculous.  I don't see this tenacious D.  Jordan was a tenacious defender.  All that said, Kobe probably is a better defender than Lebron.  At this point, thats the part of Lebrons game that needs the most work.  However, do you watch the games?  You can't tell me Kobe does the things Lebron does to win games?  Lebron includes everybody.  He runs his team.  This latest sh*t with Kobe tells you the type of player he is - selfish. 

   

I think they're both great. But the NBA tends to over value scorers. Lebron is a great scorer at his age, but Kobe is much more explosive scorer. Lebron will easily get there. But Kob dropped 50 in like 4 games straight (and 81). Does that make him better than Lebron? Hell no. But, in the offense category, Kobe gets the edge. In defense, it is hard to tell. Statistically, Lebron is better on defense. But Kobe seems to put more effort in to it. He's not Bruce Bowen, but rarely does an offensive talent like Kobe possess the energy to play good defense as well. He does it on both ends (I'm not sure if he deserved to make first team though). I think since Kobe has the edge in offense, and because they are incredibly close defensively, Kobe might be considered the better player now.

...But, in the end, Lebron will prove to be a better player. He has the ability to do everything, he makes his team better, and he wins. Kobe will be remember as a remarkable scorer. LeBron will remember as a remarkable talent, who was able to win. 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 31, 2007, 07:06:17 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons&entryDate=20070530
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on May 31, 2007, 09:19:57 PM
How's that Lebron doin' Bond?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: LBJFan on May 31, 2007, 09:26:13 PM
ummmmmm yeah.

Thats why my name is what it is  ;D

That was great.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 31, 2007, 09:26:48 PM
How's that Lebron doin' Bond?

He's amazing. Still not Kobe.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on May 31, 2007, 09:31:37 PM
I was wondering when someone was going to get to this thread.

Like I said, the Kobe comparisons are bunk.  That said, Kobe certainly had never done what LeBron just did when he was 22.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 31, 2007, 10:12:06 PM
I was wondering when someone was going to get to this thread.

Like I said, the Kobe comparisons are bunk.  That said, Kobe certainly had never done what LeBron just did when he was 22.


LMAO!!!

Kobe's done better. More points, more rebounds, game winner...are you crazy?

45/10/3 against the Spurs in the Conference finals...plus the game winner. Age: 22
http://www.nba.com/games/20010519/LALSAS/boxscore.html?nav=ArticleList

48/16rbs Semi-finals against the Kings in a series clincher while his wife was in the hospital. Age: 22

http://www.nba.com/games/20010513/LALSAC/boxscore.html?nav=ArticleList

Both games on the road.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on May 31, 2007, 10:16:24 PM
LeBron:

Last 25 points.  Last 29/30 points.  That includes all scoring in the double overtime period.  Basically just won the game that might steal the series from a Pistons team that is streets ahead of Cleveland single-handed.


It's not about the stats.  It's about WHEN the stats happen. 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on May 31, 2007, 10:22:29 PM
LeBron:

Last 25 points.  Last 29/30 points.  That includes all scoring in the double overtime period.  Basically just won the game that might steal the series from a Pistons team that is streets ahead of Cleveland single-handed.


It's not about the stats.  It's about WHEN the stats happen. 

Great individual performance.

Lebron did a couple things: 1) can't say he's not clutch anymore; 2) can't say he doesn't have killer instinct. Great performance. I'm not going to get into a Kobe v. Lebron match cause its something that Lebron can't win yet. Not enough body of work...but he's getting to the point where he's making it interesting. If he wins the title, I'll debate with you about it.

Edit: I agree that Lebron leading his team at such an early age is hella impressive. Perhaps that is something Kobe could not have done. Hell it is something Jordan has not done...jordan was a notorious loser his first couple years in the league. So props to LBJ.

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: LBJFan on May 31, 2007, 11:14:35 PM
Im just glad something other than Kobe and his antics is being dicussed on the various sports websites and blogs.

Im from Cleveland. I've been a Cavs fan for 2 decades. I won't go as far as to say Lebron is better than Kobe or even on Kobe's level yet...but Kobe is such a whiny petulant child...its hard not to be a Kobe detracter on that issue alone.

I live in L.A...the sports media coverage of that nonsense has been non stop since it started. Sick of it. Finally they're back to talking about people who are actually still playing

Go Cavs
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on May 31, 2007, 11:19:30 PM
LeBron:

Last 25 points.  Last 29/30 points.  That includes all scoring in the double overtime period.  Basically just won the game that might steal the series from a Pistons team that is streets ahead of Cleveland single-handed.


It's not about the stats.  It's about WHEN the stats happen. 

Great individual performance.

Lebron did a couple things: 1) can't say he's not clutch anymore; 2) can't say he doesn't have killer instinct. Great performance. I'm not going to get into a Kobe v. Lebron match cause its something that Lebron can't win yet. Not enough body of work...but he's getting to the point where he's making it interesting. If he wins the title, I'll debate with you about it.

Edit: I agree that Lebron leading his team at such an early age is hella impressive. Perhaps that is something Kobe could not have done. Hell it is something Jordan has not done...jordan was a notorious loser his first couple years in the league. So props to LBJ.



which is all that matters when it comes to playing basketball.  I could give a damn about stats.  We are watching a legend being born.  This kid Lebron is developing his "Jordan" aura.  Kobe NEVER developed this.  His whole career he's played with a chip on his shoulder.  Am I better than Shaq?  Can I win on my own?  Its effected his play, and his development as a complete team player.  Watch, this kid Lebron is about to be the best we have ever seen.  I'm not going to compare him to Jordan so soon, because Jordan sustained his excellence for several years.  To me, that is something separate from skills and has to do with his make up.  Only time will tell of Lebron is made of the same stuff.  It takes someone special to be at the top, and still have desire extended periods.  That said, Lebron is doing things at 22 no one has ever done.  This makes him MUCH better than Kobe in my eyes.  He doesn't even have to beat the Western team to prove this.  if he beats the pistons that will be sufficient to me.  As long as he doesnt get swept by the next team and makes it competitive, Lebron will have sealed up this Kobe argument.  Especially if he has a strong season next year.  And something tells me hes just going to get better as he gets more confident.  The ball is rolling real fast now.  
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on May 31, 2007, 11:20:44 PM
LeBron:

Last 25 points.  Last 29/30 points.  That includes all scoring in the double overtime period.  Basically just won the game that might steal the series from a Pistons team that is streets ahead of Cleveland single-handed.


It's not about the stats.  It's about WHEN the stats happen. 

Great individual performance.

Lebron did a couple things: 1) can't say he's not clutch anymore; 2) can't say he doesn't have killer instinct. Great performance. I'm not going to get into a Kobe v. Lebron match cause its something that Lebron can't win yet. Not enough body of work...but he's getting to the point where he's making it interesting. If he wins the title, I'll debate with you about it.

Edit: I agree that Lebron leading his team at such an early age is hella impressive. Perhaps that is something Kobe could not have done. Hell it is something Jordan has not done...jordan was a notorious loser his first couple years in the league. So props to LBJ.




We basically agree 100%, so no need to quibble.   :D
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on May 31, 2007, 11:27:26 PM
Im just glad something other than Kobe and his antics is being dicussed on the various sports websites and blogs.

Im from Cleveland. I've been a Cavs fan for 2 decades. I won't go as far as to say Lebron is better than Kobe or even on Kobe's level yet...but Kobe is such a whiny petulant child...its hard not to be a Kobe detracter on that issue alone.

I live in L.A...the sports media coverage of that nonsense has been non stop since it started. Sick of it. Finally they're back to talking about people who are actually still playing

Go Cavs

So true, way to go Cavs... more importantly, way to go LeBron.  As a Clevelander, myself, it's about damn time we have something to cheer for.  I'm totally biased when I say it, but I think LeBron is one of the top 3 players of the decade.  To quote my current roommate, it appears the Curse of Cleveland is lifting: we finally had a solid NFL draft (though, I would have a tough time arguing with Couch at the time), the Cavs are giving the Ston's a run for their money, and the Tribe is tops in the division.  Now I'm not naive enough to believe in that luck continuing, but I can say, that at this time and moment in space, Cleveland does not suck from a sports perspective. 

As for the Kobe argument, as I've said before, I think these are the types of players that are best left debated by posterity.  However, I can say that tonight/last night's game was among the best I've seen in a long time as far as individual efforts are concerned.  Kobe is one hell of an athlete, but I think LeBron is just as good--if not better.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: LBJFan on May 31, 2007, 11:45:03 PM
I think as far as getting into a "zone" goes...Kobe tops Lebron. I got my wittle heart broken so many times as a youngster because of Jordan and his "zones" and I've seen Kobe do the same type of thing so many times....crush dreams.

Lebron was definitely in a zone tonight and I am hoping he can make that a habit if need be.

I agree with the posterity argument though and I think if Lebron can break the Cleveland Curse (or even come close) with such a mediocre squad, that will definitely elevate him up there with the best of the best.

But Lebron seems to be such a stand up guy, and a great teammate/leader too. He speaks so highly of his teammates, gives them props, supports them etc. Kobe's just a jerk. I know that holds no probative weight in deciding who is "better" necessarily but it definitely affects my opinion of the two guys.

Anyway...I've totally neglected my bar studies tonight. Lebron James won't be lending me any money to pay off my student loans so...off I go!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: awesomepossum on May 31, 2007, 11:49:09 PM
It's kind of early to say Lebron is one of the top three of the decade.

In that time frame, I'd have Shaq, Kobe and Tim Duncan.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 01, 2007, 01:29:29 AM
LeBron:

Last 25 points.  Last 29/30 points.  That includes all scoring in the double overtime period.  Basically just won the game that might steal the series from a Pistons team that is streets ahead of Cleveland single-handed.


It's not about the stats.  It's about WHEN the stats happen. 

Great individual performance.

Lebron did a couple things: 1) can't say he's not clutch anymore; 2) can't say he doesn't have killer instinct. Great performance. I'm not going to get into a Kobe v. Lebron match cause its something that Lebron can't win yet. Not enough body of work...but he's getting to the point where he's making it interesting. If he wins the title, I'll debate with you about it.

Edit: I agree that Lebron leading his team at such an early age is hella impressive. Perhaps that is something Kobe could not have done. Hell it is something Jordan has not done...jordan was a notorious loser his first couple years in the league. So props to LBJ.



which is all that matters when it comes to playing basketball.  I could give a damn about stats.  We are watching a legend being born.  This kid Lebron is developing his "Jordan" aura.  Kobe NEVER developed this.  His whole career he's played with a chip on his shoulder.  Am I better than Shaq?  Can I win on my own?  Its effected his play, and his development as a complete team player.  Watch, this kid Lebron is about to be the best we have ever seen.  I'm not going to compare him to Jordan so soon, because Jordan sustained his excellence for several years.  To me, that is something separate from skills and has to do with his make up.  Only time will tell of Lebron is made of the same stuff.  It takes someone special to be at the top, and still have desire extended periods.  That said, Lebron is doing things at 22 no one has ever done.  This makes him MUCH better than Kobe in my eyes.  He doesn't even have to beat the Western team to prove this.  if he beats the pistons that will be sufficient to me.  As long as he doesnt get swept by the next team and makes it competitive, Lebron will have sealed up this Kobe argument.  Especially if he has a strong season next year.  And something tells me hes just going to get better as he gets more confident.  The ball is rolling real fast now.  


lol...whatever, madness. You ever heard of a guy named Magic Johnson? Played 5 positions on the court in the finals at age 21, his rookie season...yeah, Lebron is really doing something no 22 year old has ever done ::) How soon we forget. Kobe at 22, drops 48/16 in a playoff series clincher on the road at Arco Arena and does all this in regulation...but Lebron's doing something no 22 year has ever done..Kobe the very next game drops 45/10 on the Spurs at San Antonio in regulation...but Lebron's doing something no 22 year old has done. Both games, Shaq's on the bench most of the fourth quarter in foul trouble. In the Sac game, Kobe scores 15 straight in the fourth to ice the game. In the San Antonio game, Kobe hits his last seven shots plus a game winning offensive rebound put back...

So let me get your argument straight: Because Kobe had sense enough to ice the games in regulation and makes his free throws (Lebron missed his down the stretch in the fourth tonight) so the outcome would never be in doubt, Lebron's performance is so much better?? Comon' man, that is a ridiculous argument. Kobe beat a much better Spurs team than this year's pistons singlehandedly in that game in the fourth. Kobe did the same thing to Sac.

But at least you made sure to note that this is all your opinion, and that my friend, says it all.



Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 01, 2007, 06:33:31 AM
Magic is the closest, but Magic had a alot of HOF's on his team.  Goooden/Daniel Gibson (another youngin!)=Booth, Wilkes, Cooper?? I don't know man.  Not to mention the other straight up ballers the Lakers had on that team minus Kareem, in that last game.  Lebrons doing it wih no HOF'ers.  Here is Magic's stat line from 1980 playoffs: 18.3|10.5  9.4

Lebrons statline: 26 8 8

22 dude.  I'm not taking away from Magic at all.  He's great and I wouldnt argue about that like I have been with Kobe.  I dont put Kobe up there with Magic, though.  Look, Magic was on a veteran led team headed by one of the all time greatest coaches.  He was young, but the burden of leading the team was not as heavy on him as Lebron.  Kareem played all but one game of that playoff series.  A championship run by them will not be as impressive as the one Lebron engineers s he can get it done; I'm talking about Lebron and Magic and their respective roles on each team.  Just appreciate this bro.  Lebron is coming of age and we have.not.seen this.  and due to the hs rules, probably wont be quick to see something like this again.
 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Slow Children At Play on June 01, 2007, 07:37:23 AM
It's kind of early to say Lebron is one of the top three of the decade.

In that time frame, I'd have Shaq, Kobe and Tim Duncan.

Was drunk and excited, pardon my irrational exuberance.  I'm surprised I could spell.

Work blows.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 01, 2007, 09:46:35 AM
Magic is the closest, but Magic had a alot of HOF's on his team.  Goooden/Daniel Gibson (another youngin!)=Booth, Wilkes, Cooper?? I don't know man.  Not to mention the other straight up ballers the Lakers had on that team minus Kareem, in that last game.  Lebrons doing it wih no HOF'ers.  Here is Magic's stat line from 1980 playoffs: 18.3|10.5  9.4

Lebrons statline: 26 8 8

22 dude.  I'm not taking away from Magic at all.  He's great and I wouldnt argue about that like I have been with Kobe.  I dont put Kobe up there with Magic, though.  Look, Magic was on a veteran led team headed by one of the all time greatest coaches.  He was young, but the burden of leading the team was not as heavy on him as Lebron.  Kareem played all but one game of that playoff series.  A championship run by them will not be as impressive as the one Lebron engineers s he can get it done; I'm talking about Lebron and Magic and their respective roles on each team.  Just appreciate this bro.  Lebron is coming of age and we have.not.seen this.  and due to the hs rules, probably wont be quick to see something like this again.
 

excellent post. I disagree, but can't argue with this.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: One Step Ahead on June 02, 2007, 08:29:21 PM
Pistons in 5 eh?  ;)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: iman on June 02, 2007, 08:39:59 PM
this is beautiful. gibson could get it right now. seriously. cavs fans have dreamed of this day... ;D
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 02, 2007, 08:51:19 PM
So Lebron does what he needs to, diverting to Gibbie for the win.  Just a yeoman, albeit nearly triple double, performance on a night when nothing would fall.  Anybody else think Kobe, if in Lebrons shoes, would have thrown away at least one of those Cav wins trying to artificially pad his stats for the triple dub lebrons been so close to this whole series?  sorry, had to work that in there.     
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 02, 2007, 08:57:00 PM
yay! A watchable Finals. For a second there, I thought I was gonna have to avoid it. :D
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: cui bono? on June 03, 2007, 09:40:17 AM
yay! A watchable Finals. For a second there, I thought I was gonna have to avoid it. :D


yeah that was a surprise. 
I don't care...I still dislike Lebron. 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 03:53:57 PM
Its the EAST...lmao at everyone overrating Lebron.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 03, 2007, 04:08:02 PM
Its the EAST...lmao at everyone overrating Lebron.


Dude, you're being such a feminine hygiene product about this. 

srsly
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 03, 2007, 04:31:22 PM
yah. he is. not a good look #%@!, chicken George.. whatever your name is... not a good look.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 03, 2007, 05:14:19 PM
Its the EAST...lmao at everyone overrating Lebron.

Lebron is the goat!!!  Cavs in 6!!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 08:00:39 PM
Its the EAST...lmao at everyone overrating Lebron.


Dude, you're being such a feminine hygiene product about this. 

srsly


Yeah! Gasp! A different opinion!

Relax, fool. Its only basketball.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 03, 2007, 08:10:10 PM
The spurs are truly an under-rated team. Year after year they compete and win.  It's about time that Popovich be reckoned as one of the greatest coaches ever.  I think a lot of people don't like watching the spurs because they are not exciting to watch.  They play a slow, simple, executing half court offense. While teams like the suns, mavericks and bulls are very exciting to watch.  Look for the spurs to completely dominate the Cavs.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 03, 2007, 08:16:44 PM
Its the EAST...lmao at everyone overrating Lebron.


Dude, you're being such a feminine hygiene product about this. 

srsly


Yeah! Gasp! A different opinion!

Relax, fool. Its only basketball.


Jesus Christ, Galt.  You and I both know that the whole "different opinion" schtick is so worn on this site, it should be banned.

I didn't call you a feminine hygiene product because our opinions differ.  In fact, our opinions don't even really differ.  I called you a feminine hygiene product because you're being unnecessarily inflammatory about *&^%.

You know me well enough to know that I don't give a @#!* one way or the other whether people love/hate LeBron/Kobe.  That doesn't mean you were being any less of a feminine hygiene product about *&^%.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 08:18:14 PM
The spurs are truly an under-rated team. Year after year they compete and win.  It's about time that Popovich be reckoned as one of the greatest coaches ever.  I think a lot of people don't like watching the spurs because they are not exciting to watch.  They play a slow, simple, executing half court offense. While teams like the suns, mavericks and bulls are very exciting to watch.  Look for the spurs to completely dominate the Cavs.

The Spurs are just a pure basketball team. Duncan is the greatest power forward to ever play the game, Pop is a top 10 coach of all time. Their execution is phenomenal and everyone plays their role...So I love watching the spurs play.

I don't know if they can dominate the Cavs...Daniel Gibson has been the biggest surprise of this offseason, Lebron is playing phenomenal ball, and I think the Cavs took the season series 2-0.

Spurs have the advantage of being the more experienced team. I don't think a Duncan led team has ever lost in the finals and Spurs can win close games. So I agree the Spurs will win...not sure they'll dominate. i think it'll go to at least 6.


Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 08:23:07 PM
Its the EAST...lmao at everyone overrating Lebron.


Dude, you're being such a feminine hygiene product about this. 

srsly


Yeah! Gasp! A different opinion!

Relax, fool. Its only basketball.


Jesus Christ, Galt.  You and I both know that the whole "different opinion" schtick is so worn on this site, it should be banned.

I didn't call you a feminine hygiene product because our opinions differ.  In fact, our opinions don't even really differ.  I called you a feminine hygiene product because you're being unnecessarily inflammatory about sh*t.

You know me well enough to know that I don't give a @#!* one way or the other whether people love/hate LeBron/Kobe.  That doesn't mean you were being any less of a feminine hygiene product about sh*t.


lol. Its just sports man. Calm down.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 03, 2007, 08:26:27 PM
The passive aggressive shrug-offs only prove that you're the one who's getting worked up about this.  I still don't care one way or the other.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 08:33:07 PM

un huh. Whatever, dood.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 08:36:57 PM
The Spurs are simply a frustratingly good team built for today's NBA.

-Timmy doesn't, and never has, stepped up and guarded the other team's big man, unless that big man is a lug. He is always assigned on the weaker, less aggressive of the bigs. The most glaring example was a few years ago when they'd assign a 6'9" Malik Rose on Shaq, and Timmy would play Horry or whomever the 4 man was. It's female private part, yet smart; Timmy rarely fouls out.

-Being the star that he is, Timmy never gets called on the defensive end, and constantly forces the whistle on the offensive end. It's annoying as hell. Dude has a great mid range bank shot, but nothing else. Every other move he gets bailed out by the whistle. You saw moments during the Jazz series when the refs choked on their whistle, and Timmy was bitching up a storm. After he was in foul trouble in game 3, you saw how many f-ing fouls they called on him or for him in game 4. Lame.

-Ginobli is a smart, scrappy, annoying player who plays hard and makes clutch shots. No complaints about him. The only thing that slows him down is when the Spurs forget about him.

-Bowen is dirty, pure and simple. Everyone knows it, everyone sees it. Dude should be tossed.

-Parker is another annoyingly affective player. He has two moves: run as hard as he can into the lane, toss something up, and hope for a bucket and/or a foul, or that sweet mid range jumper. But the guy initiates contact more blatantly than anyone I've ever seen. Ten or fifteen years ago he'd have been laid out cold if he came into the lane like he does now.

I can't stand them, but they're built to win in today's female private part NBA.
 
LMAO...this is something everyone ignores.  http://youtube.com/watch?v=jAakQjpFibg


Dude is the dirtiest player in the NBA.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 03, 2007, 08:38:58 PM
LOL

he kicked Wally Sippin-on-some-sizzurp in the head
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 08:40:12 PM
lol, yeah man. How the hell do you do something like that?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 03, 2007, 08:49:58 PM
Let me point something out about the cavs....It is a huge accomplishment for Lebron and the Cavs...but they played the Wizards without Arenas, and the Nets....The Sonics could have beaten both of those teams...lol...I sure am gonna love seeing Gibson guarding Parker...Parker will have a field day.  We are all forgetting that this is not the same Pistons team...They have been declining for years now...and no more BEN WALLACE. Did you see how much Chicago improved with Ben Wallace. The spurs are well rested and have more experience...the Western conference is much better than the eastern conference..Hands down
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 08:51:14 PM
Let me point something out about the cavs....It is a huge accomplishment for Lebron and the Cavs...but they played the Wizards without Arenas, and the Nets....The Sonics could have beaten both of those teams...lol...I sure am gonna love seeing Gibson guarding Parker...Parker will have a field day.  We are all forgetting that this is not the same Pistons team...They have been declining for years now...and no more BEN WALLACE. Did you see how much Chicago improved with Ben Wallace. The spurs are well rested and have more experience...the Western conference is much better than the eastern conference..Hands down

EXACTLY!!!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 03, 2007, 08:54:10 PM
right right right. I'm going to enjoy watching this Finals. I think Cleveland can and will win it. They will have to win one of the first two games though.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 03, 2007, 09:00:10 PM
Cleveland may get a win or two because things have been rolling their way...But Ginobli, Parker, Duncan, and Finley will be too much to over come.  Lebron's body has to be hurting....They are capable of beating the spurs, they have this season.  But I believe that there are five teams in the west who would beat the cavs: Mavs, Nuggets, Spurs, Suns, Jazz and the Warriors.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 03, 2007, 09:09:01 PM

Spurs are too crafty and that's why I think they'll win....

You see the way they punk'd stoudamire and Diaw and Nash all at the same time?

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 03, 2007, 09:13:37 PM
Spurs are too big and deep! They have huge bench players who could start for many other teams!! Not to mention, Parker is one of the fastest players in the league...Bowens is one of the top defenders also...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on June 03, 2007, 09:18:08 PM
I didn't think the Cavs would win the conference finals. After watching last year finals, I've come to realize that one player can dominate a series. D-Wade killed the Mavericks. I think Lebron can kill the Spurs, so it should be a tight series. LeBron has awaken, so it could mean trouble for the spurs. And, I think DGib will play well.

It's hard to predict at this point. Obviously, conventional wisdom says picked the Spurs. They've done it before, and they have Tim Duncan, Ginob, and Parker. But, Lebron pretty much single handedly beat the Pistons. I don't see anyone on the Spurs stopping him.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 03, 2007, 09:22:57 PM
The pistons have no big men at all...they are getting old and lost BEN WALLACE...The spurs have bowens, who is a first team all nba...not saying they hill will hold Lebron, but he will do more than richard hamilton did.  The spurs have too much depth and are poised.  They won't have the ejections like the pistons or the flagrant fouls.  They are well rested and have been scouting.  Popovich will have a game plan...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on June 03, 2007, 09:37:14 PM
The pistons have no big men at all...they are getting old and lost BEN WALLACE...The spurs have bowens, who is a first team all nba...not saying they hill will hold Lebron, but he will do more than richard hamilton did.  The spurs have too much depth and are poised.  They won't have the ejections like the pistons or the flagrant fouls.  They are well rested and have been scouting.  Popovich will have a game plan...

The entire pistons team practically guarded Lebron. And Prince did most of the work, not Rip. As I said before, the Spurs aren't the underdogs. Conventional wisdom says the Spurs. And they do have the better team. However, it's difficult for me to say that the Spurs will win. LeBron is a different kind of player now. He basically willed the Cavs to victory. 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 03, 2007, 09:37:46 PM
Horry is the most Clutch player in the history of the nba....
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 04, 2007, 12:27:53 AM
LOLZ!

This is from an MSN.com article by Scott Carefoot:

"Anyway, it's fun to dream and it sure beats watching the Spurs win another title. Seriously, the only way that gang of thugs and floppers could be more unlikable would be if Tim Duncan announced that he planned to join the Taliban after he inevitably accepts his finals MVP award."


http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/The+NBA+trade+that+has+to+happen/5Hole/Articles/ContentPosting_5Hole.aspx?isfa=1&newsitemid=a1813fda-0d9a-4a7c-9677-3134aaea8be5&feedname=The_5_Hole&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 04, 2007, 04:01:21 PM
lebron hurting?  no way.  dude is 22 and is in beast shape.  he'll be okay.  the spurs?  yeah their old asses will be hurting by game 6.  I want to see bowen try to check james.  parker will not have it easy against gibson at all.  and that verajou will be all over duncan.  tim will still get his, but i dont see anybody running amock but james.  tivo this ish gentlemen.  we'll be talking about this a few years from now like we talked about jordan after the lakers final.  its time.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 04, 2007, 07:18:47 PM
lebron hurting?  no way.  dude is 22 and is in beast shape.  he'll be okay.  the spurs?  yeah their old asses will be hurting by game 6.  I want to see bowen try to check james.  parker will not have it easy against gibson at all.  and that verajou will be all over duncan.  tim will still get his, but i dont see anybody running amock but james.  tivo this ish gentlemen.  we'll be talking about this a few years from now like we talked about jordan after the lakers final.  its time.

When's game 1?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 1LCorvo on June 04, 2007, 08:24:51 PM
lebron hurting?  no way.  dude is 22 and is in beast shape.  he'll be okay.  the spurs?  yeah their old asses will be hurting by game 6.  I want to see bowen try to check james.  parker will not have it easy against gibson at all.  and that verajou will be all over duncan.  tim will still get his, but i dont see anybody running amock but james.  tivo this ish gentlemen.  we'll be talking about this a few years from now like we talked about jordan after the lakers final.  its time.

When's game 1?

This Thursday, June 7th
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 07, 2007, 05:53:26 PM
Well, tonight begins the end to the Cavs amazing run. Spurs in 4.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 07, 2007, 05:59:01 PM
you're wrong. Also, your avatar and your name don't make any sense. Step your game up, son.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Katie08 on June 07, 2007, 07:10:21 PM
Well, tonight begins the end to the Cavs amazing run. Spurs in 4.

You must have been one of those Pistons in 4 betters too. Have a little faith
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 07, 2007, 09:15:48 PM
We are all witnesses....
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 07, 2007, 09:17:18 PM
Did Jordan win his first Finals game?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 07, 2007, 09:27:02 PM
Win or lose is a team thing.

individually, Jordan's first final game, he absolutely dominated.

Lebron got his welcome to the Western Conference tonight.

Cavs still have a shot though, but not if Lebron keeps throwing up stinkers.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 07, 2007, 11:46:33 PM
 ::)


Galt, you will be eating your words in games 2 and 3.  And this whole "Western Conference" thing is crap, and we both know it. 

What he DID come up against is a very effective defense and the best power forward in the game.  It won't happen this way two games in a row.



Fully agreed with tj. assessment, BTW.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 08, 2007, 03:39:54 AM
didn't like what I saw last night.  King James was stifled by the D.  That said, he kept his teammates involved, but I think hes figuring out now that unless he has good games his team wont beat the spurs.  There will be no Russell like wins for him against the spurs, where he has decent/subpar stats but wills his team to victory.  It just wont happen, he needs to take over. I never expected cavs to win game one due to nerve and san antonios extensive finals experience.  Its almost like the Cavs didnt get a couple calls and the other team did and the cavs unraveled.  james had his hands up expecting a whistle half the game, and of course you have the spurs flopping everywhere.  it really effed with their heads man and that is just normal fair for playoff games, especially finals games on the road.  games 2 and 3 will set the real tone for the series.  If 2 is competitive we will have a good series on our hand, if not, maybe james will have to wait a year or two.  At any rate, this was a tough game to watch.  I hate the spurs and the cavs were all stinking with the exception of gooden.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 08, 2007, 05:39:21 AM
::)


Galt, you will be eating your words in games 2 and 3.  And this whole "Western Conference" thing is crap, and we both know it. 

What he DID come up against is a very effective defense and the best power forward in the game.  It won't happen this way two games in a row.



Fully agreed with tj. assessment, BTW.


I'm the resident LSD Lebron James hater. There's one on every message board.

Truth be told, I hope the cavs win because LBJ is my second favorite player in the L and I HATE HATE HATE the spurs.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 08, 2007, 09:19:57 AM
Well a s a Spurs fan since 97, (and a Tim Duncan fan since Wake Forest days) it's only natural that I expect the Spurs to win in 4. Besides the fact, Spurs are just a better team. I understand Lebron winning would be the story everybody wants but...don't always work like that.

Quote
Also, your avatar and your name don't make any sense. Step your game up, son.

Hmmm...didn't know there was a "game" to choosing avatars but I'll play. I'm a fan of The Fresh Prince. The Fresh Prince is directly linked to a successful black lawyer/judge (depending on the season), so I chose to put Uncle Phil in the avy. Does that explanation suffice, o great Massa? Please let me know where my game needs the most improvement.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 08, 2007, 09:34:38 AM
Your clever retort game needs mad improvement.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 08, 2007, 09:43:59 AM
 :D :D :D

(http://vh1.cjb.net/~bryan/uncle%20phil.gif)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 08, 2007, 10:30:40 AM
7.9


The King could only pull a 7.9....lowest rated game 1 of the NBA Finals EVER....damn, either the spurs are like kryptonite to viewers or the NBA is in decline.

Or maybe they should just pencil in the Lakers by default next year...damn.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 08, 2007, 10:39:11 AM
Quote
Your clever retort game needs mad improvement.

Working on it as we speak. BTW, must be fun to critique message boards. Lord knows that's why we all come here  ::) To be critiqued, I mean.


:D :D :D

(http://vh1.cjb.net/~bryan/uncle%20phil.gif)

 :D :D :D  Gotta love him
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 08, 2007, 10:42:33 AM
7.9


The King could only pull a 7.9....lowest rated game 1 of the NBA Finals EVER....damn, either the spurs are like kryptonite to viewers or the NBA is in decline.

Or maybe they should just pencil in the Lakers by default next year...damn.

The Spurs are boring.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 08, 2007, 10:44:54 AM
Quote
The Spurs are boring.

We prefer the term "fundamental"  ;)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 08, 2007, 10:51:59 AM
7.9


The King could only pull a 7.9....lowest rated game 1 of the NBA Finals EVER....damn, either the spurs are like kryptonite to viewers or the NBA is in decline.

Or maybe they should just pencil in the Lakers by default next year...damn.

The Spurs are boring.


TITCR

If it wasn't for LeBron, ratings would've been below 7.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 08, 2007, 10:55:56 AM
Quote
If it wasn't for LeBron, ratings would've been below 7.

Well if thats the case, this wouldn't have been the worst opening for the Finals ever. The Spurs have won 4 titles in the past 9 years, so if the Spurs were the problem, wouldn't one of those Final series have been the worst ever? Not to mention, the way Lebron shot in Game 1, he can't even save his own team, let alone the ratings.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 08, 2007, 11:05:08 AM
Quote
If it wasn't for LeBron, ratings would've been below 7.

Well if thats the case, this wouldn't have been the worst opening for the Finals ever. The Spurs have won 4 titles in the past 9 years, so if the Spurs were the problem, wouldn't one of those Final series have been the worst ever? Not to mention, the way Lebron shot in Game 1, he can't even save his own team, let alone the ratings.

exactly....

+1
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 08, 2007, 11:05:16 AM
Quote
If it wasn't for LeBron, ratings would've been below 7.

Well if thats the case, this wouldn't have been the worst opening for the Finals ever. The Spurs have won 4 titles in the past 9 years, so if the Spurs were the problem, wouldn't one of those Final series have been the worst ever? Not to mention, the way Lebron shot in Game 1, he can't even save his own team, let alone the ratings.


Dude, that was no comment on the game itself.

People want to see LeBron.  Nobody but you wants to see the Spurs.  Nobody wants to see the rest of the Cavs, either. 

The reason people don't want to see the Spurs is precisely because they had to suffer them three times previously.  Case dismissed, clown.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 08, 2007, 12:04:03 PM
Quote
Nobody but you wants to see the Spurs.

And you're basing this on...... ???

Quote
Case dismissed, clown.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/bhizzle605/Youmad.jpg)


Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 08, 2007, 12:19:28 PM
Nah.  I still think Duncan would've dominated -- he's got so many facets to his game, he would've adapted.  I agree with the rest, though.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 08, 2007, 12:30:53 PM
All jokes aside, I don't get the boring thing. I love NBA basketball as a whole more than I like the Spurs. That said, I know the Spurs aren't the most exciting team in the league, but who really is? Besides the Suns and maybe the Warriors on good nights, there are no exciting teams. There are exciting players (James, Kobe, Carter, McGrady, Arenas etc.) but there's really no team that is exciting. Even if you feel so, it can be personal opinion. Some might find 3 pointers exciting, whereas someone else is excited by crisp passes. Who's to say?

And to all the people saying how grimy and dirty the Spurs are, wise up. It's called defense, something the NBA has been forgetting about lately. And in the end, don't blame the Spurs for getting away with calls. Isn't that what the refs are paid for? Blame them.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 08, 2007, 12:32:44 PM
Duncan's basketball intelligence dictates that he would've found something that works.

Defensively, I see him getting beat on more, but still being very effective.  And he would've been a good rebounder even as a center.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 08, 2007, 12:39:23 PM
Quote
If it wasn't for LeBron, ratings would've been below 7.

Well if thats the case, this wouldn't have been the worst opening for the Finals ever. The Spurs have won 4 titles in the past 9 years, so if the Spurs were the problem, wouldn't one of those Final series have been the worst ever? Not to mention, the way Lebron shot in Game 1, he can't even save his own team, let alone the ratings.


Dude, that was no comment on the game itself.

People want to see LeBron.  Nobody but you wants to see the Spurs.  Nobody wants to see the rest of the Cavs, either. 

The reason people don't want to see the Spurs is precisely because they had to suffer them three times previously.  Case dismissed, clown.



lol.

Nobody wants to see any of em.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 08, 2007, 12:40:41 PM
Quote
The only undefendable part of Duncan's game is his face-up mid-range bankshot. In the NBA of old, pre-Shaq rules, you could have doubled Duncan, or had a big camp out in the key waiting for him to do his little head-drop shoulder-charge thing. Duncan's game now is all about the mismatch (because he plays a 4), but he struggles when you put most players that are his size on him, or are able to double him.

Also, you could argue he might have had to play a 5 in the older NBA, in which case he'd have been guarding Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Jabbar, etc. It would have wore on him.

I think that besides Duncan's bankshot the only other things going for him are that he's intelligent in reading situations and reacting correctly to them, and he's always put in favorable situations, because of his coach, the refs lack of calling fouls (or too much on his defenders), or because he rarely plays a true big. He's kind of insulated to his advantage. And note that it's never Duncan who they rely upon in the last few minutes of the game, but Ginobli.

....but they win. Just b/c a player is a team leader doesn't mean he has to do everything for the team. Pippen? Rodman? Longley? Kukoc? Phil Jackson? Michael Jordan was insulated to his advantage with the Bulls. You simply couldn't double team b/c other players would make you pay instead. The same principle loosely applies to the Spurs.

Disclaimer: I am not, by any means, putting the Spurs on the same plateau as the Jordan era Bulls. No comparison.

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 08, 2007, 12:40:43 PM
Quote
If it wasn't for LeBron, ratings would've been below 7.

Well if thats the case, this wouldn't have been the worst opening for the Finals ever. The Spurs have won 4 titles in the past 9 years, so if the Spurs were the problem, wouldn't one of those Final series have been the worst ever? Not to mention, the way Lebron shot in Game 1, he can't even save his own team, let alone the ratings.


Dude, that was no comment on the game itself.

People want to see LeBron.  Nobody but you wants to see the Spurs.  Nobody wants to see the rest of the Cavs, either. 

The reason people don't want to see the Spurs is precisely because they had to suffer them three times previously.  Case dismissed, clown.



lol.

Nobody wants to see any of em.


Except LeBron.  But even LeBron couldn't overcome how boring everyone else was going to be on court.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 08, 2007, 12:43:45 PM
Quote
If it wasn't for LeBron, ratings would've been below 7.

Well if thats the case, this wouldn't have been the worst opening for the Finals ever. The Spurs have won 4 titles in the past 9 years, so if the Spurs were the problem, wouldn't one of those Final series have been the worst ever? Not to mention, the way Lebron shot in Game 1, he can't even save his own team, let alone the ratings.


Dude, that was no comment on the game itself.

People want to see LeBron.  Nobody but you wants to see the Spurs.  Nobody wants to see the rest of the Cavs, either. 

The reason people don't want to see the Spurs is precisely because they had to suffer them three times previously.  Case dismissed, clown.



lol.

Nobody wants to see any of em.


Except LeBron.  But even LeBron couldn't overcome how boring everyone else was going to be on court.


Yeh, I love basketball and I had to turn it off. Defense wins championships...offense wins ratings.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 08, 2007, 12:46:06 PM
I didn't even bother turning it on in the first place.  I figure I'll watch games 2 and 3.  If the Cavs get smothered the same way in game 2, I probably won't even turn on game 3.  And if the Cavs haven't won those two games and are up 2-1, I'm sure as hell not turning on games 4 through whatever the series goes to.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 08, 2007, 01:35:30 PM
Quote
Yeh, I love basketball and I had to turn it off. Defense wins championships...offense wins ratings.

Perty much  :-\
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 11, 2007, 08:26:38 AM
Bump for thoughts on game 2 (or the Sopranos)  :)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: . . . on June 11, 2007, 08:28:12 AM
Bump for thoughts on game 2 (or the Sopranos)  :)

I have tickets for game 5, but if my Cavs keep playing like they did in games 1 and 2, it looks like there may not even be a game 5  :-[
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 11, 2007, 08:30:53 AM
Bump for thoughts on game 2 (or the Sopranos)  :)

I have tickets for game 5, but if my Cavs keep playing like they did in games 1 and 2, it looks like there may not even be a game 5  :-[

I'm sure the cavs will win one out of the next two. Cavs are a very resilient team. They don't have the ability to beat the Spurs in 7, but they can extend it to 6.

ETA: Do you have good seats?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: . . . on June 11, 2007, 09:08:41 AM
Bump for thoughts on game 2 (or the Sopranos)  :)

I have tickets for game 5, but if my Cavs keep playing like they did in games 1 and 2, it looks like there may not even be a game 5  :-[

I'm sure the cavs will win one out of the next two. Cavs are a very resilient team. They don't have the ability to beat the Spurs in 7, but they can extend it to 6.

ETA: Do you have good seats?

Great seats  :) My family has split season tickets to the Cavs with a few other families for 14 years now. We usually get about 8 games a season, but I haven't lived in Cleveland since high school so I haven't been able to go much. I remember going to games before Lebron where there were literally only a few hundred people there!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 11, 2007, 09:28:46 AM
Bump for thoughts on game 2 (or the Sopranos)  :)

my only thoughts were wtf? @ the 35 55 halftime score.  NBA is hurting.  obviously Lebron will have to wait another couple before he gets crowned.  spurs are destroying them.  what an ugly series 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 13, 2007, 01:24:31 AM
Did anyone see the huge Michigan logo on the Cav's scoreboard towards the end of the game?

WTF?

Haha I noticed that too...

I guess it's hard for the refs to call a foul to decide the game, but I think it's different when the guy is intentionally fouling...they should have called the foul there right?  or am I missing something?


Agreed.  Terrible non-call.  LeBron did the right thing taking the shot and hoping for a four point play.

Incredibly classy of LeBron to come out afterwards and just shrug it off as incidental contact.  I was very impressed with his reactions to the media.  Dude's never got any excuses.  I like that. 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Journeyman on June 13, 2007, 06:39:13 AM
Hate to say it Cavs fans...but this one is O-V-E-R.

No team has come back from an 0-3 deficit, and certainly no MAN has come back from an 0-3.  The Lebrons had a great run, but this one should be over on Thursday.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: . . . on June 13, 2007, 07:47:43 AM
i hope there's at least a game 5, considering i have tickets  :-\

C'mon Cavs, get it together!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: awesomepossum on June 13, 2007, 07:48:34 AM
Ummmmmm......yeah.......SA in 4.......
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Statistic on June 13, 2007, 07:48:40 AM
i hope there's at least a game 5, considering i have tickets  :-\

C'mon Cavs, get it together!

I want this mess to be over.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: . . . on June 13, 2007, 07:50:02 AM
do you really think SA will sweep it?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: awesomepossum on June 13, 2007, 07:52:58 AM
Probably.....SA played a HORRIBLE offensive game...and they still won.  Daniel Gibson was terrible as a starter.  Lebron can't bull his way in against SA.  If Lebron only has his jumper he isn't THAT special. 

You can't know they're going to sweep.  But I would pay money to say that there isn't going to be another game in SA this season (2-3-2 schedule)

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 13, 2007, 11:27:29 AM
Welcome to the West, Lebron.


ETA: I already know what you're going to say J. I'll admit it. I'm just a hater. I can't help it.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: 2Lacoste on June 13, 2007, 11:52:29 AM
Welcome to the West, Lebron.


ETA: I already know what you're going to say J. I'll admit it. I'm just a hater. I can't help it.


Dear Galt,

Hater.

Sincerely,
Bitter Knicks Fan.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 13, 2007, 11:57:41 AM
Welcome to the West, Lebron.


ETA: I already know what you're going to say J. I'll admit it. I'm just a hater. I can't help it.


 :D :D :D

Pre-emptive strike FTW!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: The Fresh Prince on June 13, 2007, 12:18:45 PM
As a Spurs fan, I can honestly say that last intentional foul was handled horribly by the refs. Worst no call I've seen in a while. But Lebron did handle that pretty classy. The slow mo of him pleading to the refs at the end of the game was kinda sad to watch though  :-\

But yeah...like I said earlier in the post;

Well, tonight begins the end to the Cavs amazing run. Spurs in 4.

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: . . . on June 14, 2007, 09:24:07 AM
predictions for tonight's game?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 14, 2007, 09:27:33 AM
Cavs by 4.  LeBron to have a stunner, and Parker to have a poor game in the paint.  Duncan will put up numbers, but the Cleveland Clowns will actually have their shooting caps on. 

Winning score somewhere in the mid-80s.  Astro to fall asleep at halftime.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: . . . on June 14, 2007, 09:33:55 AM
Cavs by 4.  LeBron to have a stunner, and Parker to have a poor game in the paint.  Duncan will put up numbers, but the Cleveland Clowns will actually have their shooting caps on. 

Winning score somewhere in the mid-80s.  Astro to fall asleep at halftime.


 :)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 09:59:51 AM
Check my earlier posts when I said that tony parker will dominate. The cavs are an extremely slow team. Any team who can run stands a good chance at sweeping them. They were almost given a ticket to the championship. Playing the wizards without arenas and the nets? And let's not forget about the declining pistons with no ben wallace? There are five teams in the west who would beat them in a series...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 10:13:14 AM
spurs by 15+


Cavs know its over. They just want to get on with vacation now.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: LadyKD on June 14, 2007, 03:57:01 PM
Maybe this news will wake Lebron up...

Another dribbling James: LeBron welcomes baby before Game 4
 
By TOM WITHERS, AP Sports Writer
June 14, 2007

CLEVELAND (AP) -- There's another dribbling James.

As he prepared for Game 4 of the NBA finals, LeBron James became a father for the second time. His girlfriend, Savannah Brinson, gave birth early Thursday to the couple's second son, Bryce Maximus James.
 
James was at the hospital for the delivery and appeared a little sleepy following the Cavaliers' morning shootaround at Quicken Loans Arena.

"It was a late night for him," Cavs coach Mike Brown said. "But he's young; he's fine."

The 22-year-old James said he would comment on his son's birth during his media availability before Game 4.

Maximus is the name of the lead character in "Gladiator," a movie about a powerful Roman general, who is betrayed and seeks revenge for his family's murder as a gladiator. The film is James' favorite.

Bryce, who weighed 8 pounds, 6 ounces and was 21 inches long, was born at 12:51 a.m. at Cuyahoga Falls General Hospital, near his father's hometown of Akron.

"Savannah and the baby are healthy and doing well," said Keith Estabrook, a spokesman for the player and his family.

Brinson had been due to deliver Sunday. James and his longtime girlfriend had their first child, LeBron James Jr., in October 2004.

Down 0-3 in the series, the Cavaliers are hoping the child's arrival is a good omen as they face a Spurs team on the brink of a fourth NBA title since 1999. No team in history has ever overcome an 0-3 deficit to win the championship.

"Maybe it means something," guard Larry Hughes said. "Bringing another life into the world will maybe give us life."
 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 14, 2007, 04:13:06 PM

"Maybe it means something," guard Larry Hughes said. "Bringing another life into the world will maybe give us life."
 



LOLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not only useless, but stupid as well!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 04:14:50 PM
Larry hughes is crap...a huge waste of money..he tucks his tail in the playoffs...trade him,start gibson and pick up someone worth the 14 million s year Hughes is getting..
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 08:49:42 PM
Lebron is definitely not the best player in the L>
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: awesomepossum on June 14, 2007, 08:54:07 PM
Bring out the brooms.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 14, 2007, 09:06:23 PM
Worst championship team in any sport not named hockey.




Agreed.

This game was the most boring NBA game I have ever watched.  EVER.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 09:29:39 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 09:51:38 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls

please.  Iverson took his team to L.A. and managed one win...in his mid-twenties.  Iverson was and is revered because with his team it was huge achievement.  what do people expect from LBJ?  The kids a baller.  His wing man is gimpy 75 percent of the time.  put any consistent 20 point per game guy neto him and we are singing a different tune.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 10:03:17 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls

please.  Iverson took his team to L.A. and managed one win...in his mid-twenties.  Iverson was and is revered because with his team it was huge achievement.  what do people expect from LBJ?  The kids a baller.  His wing man is gimpy 75 percent of the time.  put any consistent 20 point per game guy neto him and we are singing a different tune.


Iverson won a game against the best playoff team in NBA history. I think the difference is obvious.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 10:18:18 PM
one game???  and AI had a better team.  Mutumbo when he was still wagging his finger.  Snow when he was d'ing suckers up and good for ten or twelve, and a pretty versatile McKie.  LeBron was years younger all by his lonesome.  And the Spurs are a pretty freaking strong team.  Lebron and the Cavs had there chances to take one or two. Hes too young.  We can argue all day about the best player in the league, but saying people should get off LBJ's nuts is ridiculous.  hes one of the best things the NBA has going right now, and no one can argue with that     
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 10:28:40 PM
one game???  and AI had a better team.  Mutumbo when he was still wagging his finger.  Snow when he was d'ing suckers up and good for ten or twelve, and a pretty versatile McKie.  LeBron was years younger all by his lonesome.  And the Spurs are a pretty freaking strong team.  Lebron and the Cavs had there chances to take one or two. Hes too young.  We can argue all day about the best player in the league, but saying people should get off LBJ's nuts is ridiculous.  hes one of the best things the NBA has going right now, and no one can argue with that     

except we can all argue with it. If Lebron is so great, how come nobody watched the series? If Lebron is so great, how come he couldn't even get 1 game? If Lebron is so great how come it took him 90 shots to get 88 points? If Lebron is so great how come he averaged 5+ turnovers this series? If lebron is so great, how come he couldn't elevate his team to play at a higher level?

Whatever the difference level between this years Cavs and the 2001 Sixers is, it is more than made up for by the ABSOLUTE dominance of the 2001 Lakers which were a MUCH MUCH MUCH better team than the 2006-2007 Spurs.

Be real son, if Lebron was in the west, he'd be home the first week in May.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 10:32:04 PM
Kobe is the best hands down..........
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 10:33:43 PM
Kobe is the best hands down..........

Quoted for truth!
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 10:41:13 PM
Three things that Kobe can do but Lebron can't...

1.) Shoot the ball (Kobe shoots pure, and is a way better from behind the arc)

2.) Defense (Lebron has horrible defense.  Granted he is a lot bigger...)

3.) Free throws (Must get better)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 10:42:43 PM
one game???  and AI had a better team.  Mutumbo when he was still wagging his finger.  Snow when he was d'ing suckers up and good for ten or twelve, and a pretty versatile McKie.  LeBron was years younger all by his lonesome.  And the Spurs are a pretty freaking strong team.  Lebron and the Cavs had there chances to take one or two. Hes too young.  We can argue all day about the best player in the league, but saying people should get off LBJ's nuts is ridiculous.  hes one of the best things the NBA has going right now, and no one can argue with that     

except we can all argue with it. If Lebron is so great, how come nobody watched the series? If Lebron is so great, how come he couldn't even get 1 game? If Lebron is so great how come it took him 90 shots to get 88 points? If Lebron is so great how come he averaged 5+ turnovers this series? If lebron is so great, how come he couldn't elevate his team to play at a higher level?

Whatever the difference level between this years Cavs and the 2001 Sixers is, it is more than made up for by the ABSOLUTE dominance of the 2001 Lakers which were a MUCH MUCH MUCH better team than the 2006-2007 Spurs.

Be real son, if Lebron was in the west, he'd be home the first week in May.

Spurs.  Two teams from bad markets in the finals makes for bad ratings obviously.  make the finals charlotte (similar market to cleveland) and san anton and the ratings would have been a quarter that.  Lebron salvaged what little ratings they did have.


but not when you factor in the sixers won ONE GAME DUDE!! you act like they made it competitive.  I'd say Lebrons accomplishments this season rival AI's from 01 and are all the more impressive because Lebron is younger.

I repeat.  Lebron is a 22 year old, humble guy, with no rape charges, crowd fights, or chronic injuries.  He makes his team better and damn near averaged a triple double in his second year in the league while being near 30ppg.  What are you arguing about?  Are you saying Lebron is not one of the best things the NBA has going right now?  Are you kidding me?  People were on Jordans nuts way before he won a title.  what, people are supposed to stop sending praises lebrons way because he lost his first finals appearence?  you must have been one of those cats like, " man get off jordans nuts this the 3rd time he lost in the playoffs"  come on.  get some perspective.  the kid is great.  the KID is great.  give him time to grow.  this is a learning experience.  

One thing Lebron can do that Kobe cant - play with teammates.  thanks for coming
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 10:46:35 PM
Madness,


You misinterpreted my post. I agree that Lebron is a great player. I believe he has an extremely bright future.


I just hated how everyone ( bandwagon fans and the media) were quickly hyping him up as the "official MJ replacement" once he had that breakout game in Detoit.


Truth of the matter is, Lebron James has aspects of his game that need work to be compared to the greatest of all time. Of course, he is only 22 so he has the potential. But, I strongly become agitated whenever a player has a strong or break out game or series, or season even, and then all of a sudden, we start hearing "the Next MJ" talk.


Here is the bottom line. Right Now in the NBA, Love him or Hate him, Kobe is the closest anyone has ever come to Jordan. But Kobe doesn't come close.





one game???  and AI had a better team.  Mutumbo when he was still wagging his finger.  Snow when he was d'ing suckers up and good for ten or twelve, and a pretty versatile McKie.  LeBron was years younger all by his lonesome.  And the Spurs are a pretty freaking strong team.  Lebron and the Cavs had there chances to take one or two. Hes too young.  We can argue all day about the best player in the league, but saying people should get off LBJ's nuts is ridiculous.  hes one of the best things the NBA has going right now, and no one can argue with that     
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 10:48:40 PM
Lebron is great...and may be the greatest come years down the line.  Right now Kobe is clearly the best.  You can't expect Lebron to win with the supporting cast he has.  Every team who has won a championship has had two great players or a few good players.  Lebron has nothing...Just like Kobe has nothing right now...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 10:49:49 PM
I know you guys are going to jump on me...But I think Kobe is just as good as Jordan was....
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 10:52:40 PM
I know you guys are going to jump on me...But I think Kobe is just as good as Jordan was....

Skill wise Kobe is better. This much has been conceded by nearly anyone who actually watches basketball.


Offensively - Kobe's better because of his superior range and shooting; FG% is deceiving because Jordan got the benefit of calls when he missed shots that Kobe can't get. Refs swallow the whistle on Kobe.

Defensively - Jordan is much better.


Kobe needs to figure out how to win some rings like now to have any shot of being as great as MJ....but skillwise, I'd take Kobe 100/100 times.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 10:53:14 PM
I know you guys are going to jump on me...But I think Kobe is just as good as Jordan was....

if we are talking one on one..yeah, kobe probably would have tagged michaels ass.  I dont deny that.  hes bigger stronger and is a better shooter.  but put four teammates on the court, and 5 opponents, no way kobe is better than michael.  michael was a winner plain and simple.  michael does not lose that finals series against detroit.  
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 10:56:24 PM
I know you guys are going to jump on me...But I think Kobe is just as good as Jordan was....

if we are talking one on one..yeah, kobe probably would have tagged michaels ass.  I dont deny that.  hes bigger stronger and is a better shooter.  but put four teammates on the court, and 5 opponents, no way kobe is better than michael.  michael was a winner plain and simple.  michael does not lose that finals series against detroit.  


LMAO...right. Someone needs to look at Jordan's career prior to getting Pippen. In fact, speaking of detroit, Jordan had his ass handed to him by that same franchise like 3 years in a row. Kobe's only been the sole leader of his team for 3 years now. Thus, they're both equal on that front in terms of chronological experience.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 10:59:10 PM
Michael gets the ball to shaq and does not let whatever chip is on on his shoulder cause his teammates the championship (poor karl malone).  Lakers should have won that f-ing series and every b-ball fan knows kobe blew that *&^%.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:00:19 PM
I know you guys are going to jump on me...But I think Kobe is just as good as Jordan was....



I am gonna let that comment go.


You really didn't know better.  ;D



No one understands how DIFFICULT it is to win a title without a legitimate big man.

Seriously, Shaq made Kobes life so easy. He made Kobe shine.

Until Kobe can win and lead a team to a title alone, I cannot classify him as a legitimate candidate for Jordan level status.



When I classified Kobe as the closest to MJ, that is because he has the athletic ability MJ had. He does not have, however, the defensive mindset. He also does not have that Basketball IQ that jordan had. Jordan knew how to make everyone else around him better. For God sakes, he made bill wennington, luc longley, bill cartwright, etc LEGITMATE big men.


Scottie Pippen is among the NBA's 50 greatest player. Why? Because he played alongside Michael Jordan? Do you think Scottie would have been on that list had he not been playing with MJ? Nope. He would have been throwing chairs into the crowd ala the year 1994.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:03:47 PM
Exactly...Jordan's defense?  I recall it was pippen guarding the drexler's and the top players.  Jordan had way more supporting players and a better cast.  Also athletes have changed.  Could you imagine Bird or Joe Dumars trying to stick Kobe Bryant? He would score 200 points on those guys...The zone defense is also allowed now...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 14, 2007, 11:05:02 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls

please.  Iverson took his team to L.A. and managed one win...in his mid-twenties.  Iverson was and is revered because with his team it was huge achievement.  what do people expect from LBJ?  The kids a baller.  His wing man is gimpy 75 percent of the time.  put any consistent 20 point per game guy neto him and we are singing a different tune.


Iverson won a game against the best playoff team in NBA history. I think the difference is obvious.

 ::) ::) ::)


I like the Lakers, but...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:05:38 PM
Jordan's defense was not much better than Kobe's. Pippen was the defensive threat on the bulls.  Pippen made 1st team Defense every year (jordan did also, but that's because he is jordan)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:06:54 PM
Pippen took the bulls to the playoffs when Jordan retired...So without Mike, they were already a playoff team.  Can't forget Kucoc, Rodamn, Horace Grant in his prime, B.J Armstrong, Paxson
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 14, 2007, 11:08:07 PM
one game???  and AI had a better team.  Mutumbo when he was still wagging his finger.  Snow when he was d'ing suckers up and good for ten or twelve, and a pretty versatile McKie.  LeBron was years younger all by his lonesome.  And the Spurs are a pretty freaking strong team.  Lebron and the Cavs had there chances to take one or two. Hes too young.  We can argue all day about the best player in the league, but saying people should get off LBJ's nuts is ridiculous.  hes one of the best things the NBA has going right now, and no one can argue with that     

except we can all argue with it. If Lebron is so great, how come nobody watched the series? If Lebron is so great, how come he couldn't even get 1 game? If Lebron is so great how come it took him 90 shots to get 88 points? If Lebron is so great how come he averaged 5+ turnovers this series? If lebron is so great, how come he couldn't elevate his team to play at a higher level?

Whatever the difference level between this years Cavs and the 2001 Sixers is, it is more than made up for by the ABSOLUTE dominance of the 2001 Lakers which were a MUCH MUCH MUCH better team than the 2006-2007 Spurs.

Be real son, if Lebron was in the west, he'd be home the first week in May.


Now you're just being foolish.

I'd like to see Kobe do what LeBron did through these playoffs being triple-teamed the whole time without any sort of outlet.  I'd like to see Kobe take on one of the best playoff defensive structures of all time. 

Oh wait.  I won't see it.  That's because, without Shaq, Kobe isn't going to the finals again.

Only one of the two has carried his team on his shoulders to the finals...  Hmm...



LeBron didn't have a good finals, but that's because the Spurs knew that he was their only scoring threat, and completely suffocated him as a result.  Not even Jordan drew that much attention on the court.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:08:27 PM
I know you guys are going to jump on me...But I think Kobe is just as good as Jordan was....



I am gonna let that comment go.


You really didn't know better.  ;D



No one understands how DIFFICULT it is to win a title without a legitimate big man.

Seriously, Shaq made Kobes life so easy. He made Kobe shine.

Until Kobe can win and lead a team to a title alone, I cannot classify him as a legitimate candidate for Jordan level status.



When I classified Kobe as the closest to MJ, that is because he has the athletic ability MJ had. He does not have, however, the defensive mindset. He also does not have that Basketball IQ that jordan had. Jordan knew how to make everyone else around him better. For God sakes, he made bill wennington, luc longley, bill cartwright, etc LEGITMATE big men.


Scottie Pippen is among the NBA's 50 greatest player. Why? Because he played alongside Michael Jordan? Do you think Scottie would have been on that list had he not been playing with MJ? Nope. He would have been throwing chairs into the crowd ala the year 1994.


Revisionist history is so funny.

Pippen MADE Jordan. I remember Jordan being a punk scorer who couldn't win without Pippen. Pippen led teams to elite status without Jordan. Can't say the same thing about Jordan without Pippen.

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:09:38 PM
Going to the playoffs isnt an acomplishment unfortunately.



I can understand your admiration for Kobe though. My little brother is the same way. We have this discussion everyday.


 ;D


One thing is for sure, Kobe is a far superior rapper to MJ.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:11:22 PM
Exactly...Pippen played great on both sides of the ball and is the bulls all time 3 point leader... Kobe scored 44 against the spurs in the playoffs. Kobe is tripled teamed every night.  You don't think people know that all the lakers have is Kobe?  He has 4 people on him and still scored 50 points or more in 6 straight games...The cavs were handed a ticket to the finals...The wizards without Arenas? and the nets?  and the old pistons, without Ben wallace anymore?  Kobe went through Portland, Sacremento and San Antonio to get his rings...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:12:06 PM
just a reminder of why kobe is a whiny little female dog, and is the only LOSER with 3 rings.  2004 finals stats:

Kobe Bryant  5  5 46.2 .381 .174 .920 .40 2.40 2.80 4.4 1.80 .60 3.60 3.00 22.6

17% from three point line?? and you know he jacked up at least 50.  4 assists for one of their primary ballhandlers who had shaq much less.  christ..38 percent from the field??? 3.6 turnovers ughh almost a 1 to 1 assist to ratio..ughshaq had nearly as many assists.  2.8 rebs..at 6'8 christ

pippen made jordan..ahahahahahha...either flame, or coming from someone who only watched the bulls on the espn classic.  you must not remember "scotties" headaches that he used to get and have to leave the game because the pistons beat his ass up so bad.  jordan made scottie.  it was jordans toughness that rubbed off on scottie and made him respectable.  jordan would get knocked down so bad everytime he hit the lane against those guys it made me his number one fan as a little tot almost cry when it happened.  you are mmore believable with the kobe lebron *&^% and have exceeded your reach here.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:12:23 PM
The bulls weren't anything until pippen got their...Respect Pippen....
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:12:32 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls

please.  Iverson took his team to L.A. and managed one win...in his mid-twenties.  Iverson was and is revered because with his team it was huge achievement.  what do people expect from LBJ?  The kids a baller.  His wing man is gimpy 75 percent of the time.  put any consistent 20 point per game guy neto him and we are singing a different tune.


Iverson won a game against the best playoff team in NBA history. I think the difference is obvious.

 ::) ::) ::)


I like the Lakers, but...


15-1....objectively the best playoff team in NBA history. Hate it.


Also, Kobe led his team to the finals in 2004. TO say otherwise is foolish and he did it being doubled and tripled by the Spurs.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjr2kNQVbXg

Kobe averaged more points, assists, steals than shaq in the playoffs in 2004 in their wins. He carried that team in 2004.

Also, you ignored the point that Lebron would BE HOME if he were in the West.

You actually think he'd have a better record than the Mavs, spurs, suns, utah or Hou....? Please. THat means, he'd be 6, 7 or 8 in the west and gone home in 4.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:13:40 PM
Jordan sure wasn't sticking clyde drexler..Pippen stuck the best players...and averaged 20 points....Talk about turnovers...Lebron had 6 or more in every game this series...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:14:37 PM
Golden state would of spanked the Cavs..Hell, the sonics could have beat the wizards without arenas and the nets..
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:14:48 PM
I know you guys are going to jump on me...But I think Kobe is just as good as Jordan was....



I am gonna let that comment go.


You really didn't know better.  ;D



No one understands how DIFFICULT it is to win a title without a legitimate big man.

Seriously, Shaq made Kobes life so easy. He made Kobe shine.

Until Kobe can win and lead a team to a title alone, I cannot classify him as a legitimate candidate for Jordan level status.



When I classified Kobe as the closest to MJ, that is because he has the athletic ability MJ had. He does not have, however, the defensive mindset. He also does not have that Basketball IQ that jordan had. Jordan knew how to make everyone else around him better. For God sakes, he made bill wennington, luc longley, bill cartwright, etc LEGITMATE big men.


Scottie Pippen is among the NBA's 50 greatest player. Why? Because he played alongside Michael Jordan? Do you think Scottie would have been on that list had he not been playing with MJ? Nope. He would have been throwing chairs into the crowd ala the year 1994.


Revisionist history is so funny.

Pippen MADE Jordan. I remember Jordan being a punk scorer who couldn't win without Pippen. Pippen led teams to elite status without Jordan. Can't say the same thing about Jordan without Pippen.



Wait..

Did you just say pippen is better than Jordan? Pippen led Jordan?

May god have mercy on your soul.

Can you explain why the whole world, even after the man is old and crusty and no longer hoops, is wearing his sneakers. 


No one is wearing AIR PIPPENS
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:15:33 PM
Going to the playoffs isnt an acomplishment unfortunately.



I can understand your admiration for Kobe though. My little brother is the same way. We have this discussion everyday.


 ;D


One thing is for sure, Kobe is a far superior rapper to MJ.

i dont know.  judging from the big chains and earings mike used to rock early in his career...I'm betting jordan could have laid a hot 16 in his prime.  besides kobe sucks ASS at rap.  Shaqs was the best rapper on the lakers.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:16:18 PM
Going to the playoffs isnt an acomplishment unfortunately.



I can understand your admiration for Kobe though. My little brother is the same way. We have this discussion everyday.


 ;D


One thing is for sure, Kobe is a far superior rapper to MJ.


Yeah man. Kobe has a group of loyal followers. I'm one of the faithful. :) Doesn't make my points any less accurate though.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:16:22 PM
Can't compare basketball with marketing.  Jordan is basketball, but he would not have won a single ring without Scottie Pippen.  Every championship team has two good players....Name a team who had one player and that was it?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 14, 2007, 11:16:47 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls

please.  Iverson took his team to L.A. and managed one win...in his mid-twenties.  Iverson was and is revered because with his team it was huge achievement.  what do people expect from LBJ?  The kids a baller.  His wing man is gimpy 75 percent of the time.  put any consistent 20 point per game guy neto him and we are singing a different tune.


Iverson won a game against the best playoff team in NBA history. I think the difference is obvious.

 ::) ::) ::)


I like the Lakers, but...


15-1....objectively the best playoff team in NBA history. Hate it.



"Objectively"?  Did you SERIOUSLY just say that?  As if there's something like an "objectively best playoff team in history" in ANY sport. 

DUDE.  Get REAL.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:16:54 PM
just a reminder of why kobe is a whiny little female dog, and is the only LOSER with 3 rings.  2004 finals stats:

Kobe Bryant  5  5 46.2 .381 .174 .920 .40 2.40 2.80 4.4 1.80 .60 3.60 3.00 22.6

17% from three point line?? and you know he jacked up at least 50.  4 assists for one of their primary ballhandlers who had shaq much less.  christ..38 percent from the field??? 3.6 turnovers ughh almost a 1 to 1 assist to ratio..ughshaq had nearly as many assists.  2.8 rebs..at 6'8 christ

pippen made jordan..ahahahahahha...either flame, or coming from someone who only watched the bulls on the espn classic.  you must not remember "scotties" headaches that he used to get and have to leave the game because the pistons beat his ass up so bad.  jordan made scottie.  it was jordans toughness that rubbed off on scottie and made him respectable.  jordan would get knocked down so bad everytime he hit the lane against those guys it made me his number one fan as a little tot almost cry when it happened.  you are mmore believable with the kobe lebron sh*t and have exceeded your reach here.


Can you believe that guy?  ???

Pippen better than Jordan?  :-X
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:17:33 PM
Exactly...Pippen played great on both sides of the ball and is the bulls all time 3 point leader... Kobe scored 44 against the spurs in the playoffs. Kobe is tripled teamed every night.  You don't think people know that all the lakers have is Kobe?  He has 4 people on him and still scored 50 points or more in 6 straight games...The cavs were handed a ticket to the finals...The wizards without Arenas? and the nets?  and the old pistons, without Ben wallace anymore?  Kobe went through Portland, Sacremento and San Antonio to get his rings...

you dont think LBJ could score 50 points under those circumstances...IF HE NEVER PASSED THE BALL??  not to mention, didnt care about winning and lost on a routine basis??
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:17:54 PM
Kobe is our era...He is our Jordan...Kobe would bust Jordan's ass right now...He did in the all star game which people thought was disrespectful...lol
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 14, 2007, 11:18:24 PM
Can't compare basketball with marketing.  Jordan is basketball, but he would not have won a single ring without Scottie Pippen.  Every championship team has two good players....Name a team who had one player and that was it?


Any team with Wilt*?




*just a guess -- too lazy to check
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:18:43 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls

please.  Iverson took his team to L.A. and managed one win...in his mid-twenties.  Iverson was and is revered because with his team it was huge achievement.  what do people expect from LBJ?  The kids a baller.  His wing man is gimpy 75 percent of the time.  put any consistent 20 point per game guy neto him and we are singing a different tune.


Iverson won a game against the best playoff team in NBA history. I think the difference is obvious.

 ::) ::) ::)


I like the Lakers, but...


15-1....objectively the best playoff team in NBA history. Hate it.



"Objectively"?  Did you SERIOUSLY just say that?  As if there's something like an "objectively best playoff team in history" in ANY sport. 

DUDE.  Get REAL.


Record wise...OBJECTIVELY, foo!

Not even the 72 Jordan team can claim that.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:19:02 PM
Could lebron score 50 points and be 50 percent from the field?  Kobe was 50 percent in almost every single one of those games..
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:19:45 PM
Can't compare basketball with marketing.  Jordan is basketball, but he would not have won a single ring without Scottie Pippen.  Every championship team has two good players....Name a team who had one player and that was it?


Any team with Wilt*?




*just a guess -- too lazy to check


All credibilty lost.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:20:04 PM
For GOD sakes, you guys are missing possibly the silliest comment in history.


Some dude said Pippen meant more to the bulls than Jordan.

Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Astro on June 14, 2007, 11:20:47 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls

please.  Iverson took his team to L.A. and managed one win...in his mid-twenties.  Iverson was and is revered because with his team it was huge achievement.  what do people expect from LBJ?  The kids a baller.  His wing man is gimpy 75 percent of the time.  put any consistent 20 point per game guy neto him and we are singing a different tune.


Iverson won a game against the best playoff team in NBA history. I think the difference is obvious.

 ::) ::) ::)


I like the Lakers, but...


15-1....objectively the best playoff team in NBA history. Hate it.



"Objectively"?  Did you SERIOUSLY just say that?  As if there's something like an "objectively best playoff team in history" in ANY sport. 

DUDE.  Get REAL.


Record wise...OBJECTIVELY, foo!

Not even the 72 Jordan team can claim that.


Dude, "objective" doesn't EXIST when you say "best playoff team".  It's a value judgement, plain and simple. 

You could say "playoff team that won a title with the fewest losses".  But then you'd have to explain their opponents and compare it to other potential candidates. 

"Objective"!  I'm STILL laughing.  hahahah
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:21:22 PM
Not saying he meant more, but they didn't win any rings until pippen came...Without Pippen, there would have been no bulls, and vice versa with jordan...Pippen is a NBA 50 great for a reason...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:21:32 PM
just a reminder of why kobe is a whiny little female dog, and is the only LOSER with 3 rings.  2004 finals stats:

Kobe Bryant  5  5 46.2 .381 .174 .920 .40 2.40 2.80 4.4 1.80 .60 3.60 3.00 22.6

17% from three point line?? and you know he jacked up at least 50.  4 assists for one of their primary ballhandlers who had shaq much less.  christ..38 percent from the field??? 3.6 turnovers ughh almost a 1 to 1 assist to ratio..ughshaq had nearly as many assists.  2.8 rebs..at 6'8 christ

pippen made jordan..ahahahahahha...either flame, or coming from someone who only watched the bulls on the espn classic.  you must not remember "scotties" headaches that he used to get and have to leave the game because the pistons beat his ass up so bad.  jordan made scottie.  it was jordans toughness that rubbed off on scottie and made him respectable.  jordan would get knocked down so bad everytime he hit the lane against those guys it made me his number one fan as a little tot almost cry when it happened.  you are mmore believable with the kobe lebron sh*t and have exceeded your reach here.


Can you believe that guy?  ???

Pippen better than Jordan?  :-X

Who said pippen was BETTER than Jordan? I only said Pippen MADE Jordan...meaning without PIP, not titles for Jordan meaning he WOULD NOT be considered the GOAT. Unless you give Kobe a top 50 player of all time and a top 3 perimeter defender, I fail to see how Jordan is such a better winner and leader than the Kobester.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:22:40 PM
Pippen is definately the best defensive player ever in the NBA (for a guard/forward)....and one of the most complete....
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:23:18 PM
who cares.  thats like a chess player saying could kasparov put you in check fifteen times straight without taking any pawns????  duh,,,the point of the game is checkmate/ teh win Kobe!!  just because he has succeeded in scoring a ridiculous number of points with a nice fg percentage in no games that matter and to no end in particular...I say, so?  

"Who said pippen was BETTER than Jordan? I only said Pippen MADE Jordan...meaning without PIP, not titles for Jordan meaning he WOULD NOT be considered the GOAT. Understand that?"

put any 20 point wing man there and you Jordan is Jordan.  Pippen is not Pippen without Jordan.  Pippen was a sufficient but not necessary condition for those studying the LSAT
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:23:45 PM
Do you remember that pippen took the bulls to the playoffs without Jordan?  And he averaged a career high that year...they were a playoff team without jordan...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:25:13 PM
Pippen is definately the best defensive player ever in the NBA (for a guard/forward)....and one of the most complete....

rodman, ben wallace, mutumbo, jordan, russell to name a few...even payton was sick

edit: didnt see the guard forward condition
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:25:22 PM
Careful....Jordan would not have been able to stick the best player and still produce on the offensive side of the court...Don't forget how important pippen was on defense with those long arms....My point is hell yea kobe should shoot if he is 20/30...Why not?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:26:22 PM
Yes but pippen at 6-6 could stick a variety of players...One of the few players from back than who could play in this league today...He would be my first choice to guard a lebron, wade or kobe...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:26:44 PM
Do you remember that pippen took the bulls to the playoffs without Jordan?  And he averaged a career high that year...they were a playoff team without jordan...

no...they were three time champions with jordan.  and when he left, they still had everything jordan imbued them with it did not just go away.  still, they lost.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:27:26 PM
now people can get off lebrons's balls

please.  Iverson took his team to L.A. and managed one win...in his mid-twenties.  Iverson was and is revered because with his team it was huge achievement.  what do people expect from LBJ?  The kids a baller.  His wing man is gimpy 75 percent of the time.  put any consistent 20 point per game guy neto him and we are singing a different tune.


Iverson won a game against the best playoff team in NBA history. I think the difference is obvious.

 ::) ::) ::)


I like the Lakers, but...


15-1....objectively the best playoff team in NBA history. Hate it.



"Objectively"?  Did you SERIOUSLY just say that?  As if there's something like an "objectively best playoff team in history" in ANY sport. 

DUDE.  Get REAL.


Record wise...OBJECTIVELY, foo!

Not even the 72 Jordan team can claim that.


Dude, "objective" doesn't EXIST when you say "best playoff team".  It's a value judgement, plain and simple. 

You could say "playoff team that won a title with the fewest losses".  But then you'd have to explain their opponents and compare it to other potential candidates. 

"Objective"!  I'm STILL laughing.  hahahah



Either you don't watch basketball or you're just flame. Only you and John hollinger would say the 2001 Lakers were not the best playoff team ever.

Now best finals team is another story...but best playoff team ever...dude this is almost as universal as the Logo being Jerry West.

I shouldn't expect any better from a guy who thought wilt won without another dominant star.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:27:37 PM
who cares.  thats like a chess player saying could kasparov put you in check fifteen times straight without taking any pawns????  duh,,,the point of the game is checkmate/ teh win Kobe!!  just because he has succeeded in scoring a ridiculous number of points with a nice fg percentage in no games that matter and to no end in particular...I say, so?   

"Who said pippen was BETTER than Jordan? I only said Pippen MADE Jordan...meaning without PIP, not titles for Jordan meaning he WOULD NOT be considered the GOAT. Understand that?"

put any 20 point wing man there and you Jordan is Jordan.  Pippen is not Pippen without Jordan.  Pippen was a sufficient but not necessary condition for those studying the LSAT



Madness,

You need to teach these fools.

You speak the truth. Pippen was a piece that was missing in the puzzle for Jordan to win that title. But that piece was plentiful. Make no mistake about it, had Pippen not come to the bulls, the Bulls could have secured another 20 8 8 guy and won the same. No disrespect to Pip. Just saying Pip was replacable and Jordan was irreplacable.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:28:03 PM
Jordan wasnt there to help them get to the playoffs...and he wasnt there to help pippen average 23...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:28:55 PM
Do you remember that pippen took the bulls to the playoffs without Jordan?  And he averaged a career high that year...they were a playoff team without jordan...

no...they were three time champions with jordan.  and when he left, they still had everything jordan imbued them with it did not just go away.  still, they lost.

Jordan would have lost if pippen got taken away. How are you not seeing this?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:29:13 PM
and you don't think pippen would have won a championship if he had magic, or an isiah thomas, or a bird?  Yea right...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:30:23 PM
who cares.  thats like a chess player saying could kasparov put you in check fifteen times straight without taking any pawns????  duh,,,the point of the game is checkmate/ teh win Kobe!!  just because he has succeeded in scoring a ridiculous number of points with a nice fg percentage in no games that matter and to no end in particular...I say, so?   

"Who said pippen was BETTER than Jordan? I only said Pippen MADE Jordan...meaning without PIP, not titles for Jordan meaning he WOULD NOT be considered the GOAT. Understand that?"

put any 20 point wing man there and you Jordan is Jordan.  Pippen is not Pippen without Jordan.  Pippen was a sufficient but not necessary condition for those studying the LSAT



Madness,

You need to teach these fools.

You speak the truth. Pippen was a piece that was missing in the puzzle for Jordan to win that title. But that piece was plentiful. Make no mistake about it, had Pippen not come to the bulls, the Bulls could have secured another 20 8 8 guy and won the same. No disrespect to Pip. Just saying Pip was replacable and Jordan was irreplacable.

End/thread this is ridiculous.

Just replace pippen...quite possible the best perimeter defender ever and the best player to ever run the triangle offense?? LMAO...yeah, just another 20 8 8 guy....right.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:30:38 PM
Point blank is that kobe doesnt have joe dumars sticking him. The talent level is a lot better.  Athletically kobe is better than jordan.  As a team player, he is not.  Kobe is selfish. We know to expect that from Kobe.  We know to expect 50 points a night from kobe also...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:31:32 PM
Pippen would have won with another guard also..Give him magic and it would have been over..give him isiah thomas..hell give him tim hardway..lol
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:31:45 PM
Do you remember that pippen took the bulls to the playoffs without Jordan?  And he averaged a career high that year...they were a playoff team without jordan...


Stop acting like making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Its not. Anybody can lead there squad of misfits to the playoffs. The orlando magic were in the playoffs this year. A team BELOW .500.


Ask Kobe about the playoffs. He has "led" his team the last two years. Sadly, he is starting to get used to being home by late april now.
 
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:31:55 PM
yeah, if they just lost him and got nothing in return.......but add drexler, or *&^% give him f-ing nick anderson and a defensive role player and *&^% the bulls would have kept it moving
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:32:28 PM
What do you expect Kobe to do?  In the west?  With Smush parker as his starting guard....
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:33:13 PM
Do you remember that pippen took the bulls to the playoffs without Jordan?  And he averaged a career high that year...they were a playoff team without jordan...


Stop acting like making the playoffs is an accomplishment. Its not. Anybody can lead there squad of misfits to the playoffs. The orlando magic were in the playoffs this year. A team BELOW .500.


Ask Kobe about the playoffs. He has "led" his team the last two years. Sadly, he is starting to get used to being home by late april now.
 


ask jordan about it before he got pippen and phil jackson
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:33:30 PM
See but you need a 20 point player and defensive player to swap for pippen...Like i said, every championship team has two good players.....
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:35:06 PM
What do you expect Kobe to do?  In the west?  With Smush parker as his starting guard....


Exactly. You give Kobe a pippen and it would be raining rings in los angeles.

Lebron was in the East. His followers forgot he beat a scrub new jersey team and a butler and arenas-less wizards team.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:35:52 PM
Lebron had the easiest road to the finals I have ever saw...Like i said, Kobe had to go through Portland, Sacremento and the Spurs just to get out of the west...
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:36:18 PM
See but you need a 20 point player and defensive player to swap for pippen...Like i said, every championship team has two good players.....

agreed.  but 20 point players are easy to come by.  like I said, Pippen was a sufficient but not a necessary condition.  pippen is NOT pippen without jordan.  bulls lost a few times with pippen, namely all those series against detroit.  pippen had to grow and jordan made him do this.  everyone knows jordan is notorious for pushing the hell out of teamates.  give him any athlete...rashard lewis type and he would have made him into a pippen
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:37:30 PM
Very true...but you know without pippen, there would have been no bulls...Pippen was athletically uncomparable to anybody in the league back than.  6-6 long wing span, could shoot and run like no other
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:38:02 PM
See but you need a 20 point player and defensive player to swap for pippen...Like i said, every championship team has two good players.....


I am not de-valueing pippen. I am saying however, pippen could have been replaced.

You could have swapped pippen.

Could the bulls have swapped Michael Jordan and won 6 F'n rings? Hellllllllllllll NO.


Had Michael Jordan not played, this discussion would not even be taking place.


In a few years, your grand kids are going to come up to you and ask you. Grandpa, "Did you ever get the opportunity to watch Michael Jordan play?" There will be NO MENTION of Scottie Pippen.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Kirk Lazarus on June 14, 2007, 11:39:01 PM
See but you need a 20 point player and defensive player to swap for pippen...Like i said, every championship team has two good players.....

agreed.  but 20 point players are easy to come by.  like I said, Pippen was a sufficient but not a necessary condition.  pippen is NOT pippen without jordan.  bulls lost a few times with pippen, namely all those series against detroit.  pippen had to grow and jordan made him do this.  everyone knows jordan is notorious for pushing the hell out of teamates.  give him any athlete...rashard lewis type and he would have made him into a pippen


On this note, I'm off to bed.

Madness, you one cool dude, but damn if we don't disagree on ballin. lol.

Too bad there's only like 6 of us on this board interested in basketball, but that's the breaks.


Whatever the merits of the Kobe/Jordan debate...one thing is for certain:

Kobe>>>>>>>>Lebron
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:39:51 PM
Michael jordan is basketball.....hands down....But the bulls would not have won 1 ring without pippen trust me....Look at them before Pippen got there..How many rings?
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: ithappensforareason on June 14, 2007, 11:40:46 PM
See but you need a 20 point player and defensive player to swap for pippen...Like i said, every championship team has two good players.....

agreed.  but 20 point players are easy to come by.  like I said, Pippen was a sufficient but not a necessary condition.  pippen is NOT pippen without jordan.  bulls lost a few times with pippen, namely all those series against detroit.  pippen had to grow and jordan made him do this.  everyone knows jordan is notorious for pushing the hell out of teamates.  give him any athlete...rashard lewis type and he would have made him into a pippen


On this note, I'm off to bed.

Madness, you one cool dude, but damn if we don't disagree on ballin. lol.

Too bad there's only like 6 of us on this board interested in basketball, but that's the breaks.


Whatever the merits of the Kobe/Jordan debate...one thing is for certain:

Kobe>>>>>>>>Lebron


Agreed. Have a goodnite.  ;)
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!! on June 14, 2007, 11:42:18 PM
Very true...but you know without pippen, there would have been no bulls...Pippen was athletically uncomparable to anybody in the league back than.  6-6 long wing span, could shoot and run like no other

I don't know.  there were a few guys.  of course, I cant think of any of their names.  but thats kind of the point, jordan would have made those guys ballers.  pippen was a nobody.  its not like he was highly touted at all.

yeah back at you galt.  it prob is time to go to bed.
Title: Re: the NBA Playoffs
Post by: I hate 20 dollar bills, I like 100's!!! on June 14, 2007, 11:42:59 PM
I'll scream at yall tommorrow....