Law School Discussion

Law Students => Transferring => Topic started by: M112 on March 07, 2010, 01:05:37 PM

Title: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: M112 on March 07, 2010, 01:05:37 PM
I am currently admitted to law school but am looking to transfer out after my first year of school to a more prestigious college.  I have accepted admission this year to a lower tier school because of the financial aid package they offered because without which, I would not be able to attend school for my first year.  During my second year of law school, however, I should be able to afford the schooling no matter what the aid package is hence, my desire to go to a more prestigious school to open up more job opportunities, possible academic career path etc.

My question centers around what I should be doing during my first year outside of being one of the top students in my class G.P.A. wise?  

Should I be on a law journal or moot court?  
Should I be doing any specific types of extra curriculars to make myself a more appealing candidate for transfer at my desired school?

Additionally, being that I am currently going to school at a T4, what is my ceiling as far as transfer is concerned assuming that my class standing at the end of my first year falls anywhere from top five (5) overall on the high end, to barely top 10% in my class on the low end?  Is top 10 a realistic possibility, or is top 30, or top 50 more likely?  Moreover, is their a general rule regarding transfers and financial aid packages i.e. would I possibly be eligible for any scholarships or would that have to wait at a minimum until I have completed one year at my new school?

Also, for some schools I took a look at, their transfer policy states that you must receive a letter of good standing from the dean of the college you want to transfer out from.  Now, would my approaching a dean about a transfer lead to the possible revocation of my scholarship ?  Any pertinent information is greatly appreciated.  
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: coto29 on March 07, 2010, 04:19:18 PM
You have scratched the surface with your research.  Typically, you will not get a scholarship if you transfer, your law school GPA does not go with you. 
How you can you finance your second and third year while not your first?  Like 90 percent of us must take out loans to some extent.
 As to getting a letter in good standing from the dean: usually the registrars office handles that, not the dean personally, so you will not need to have an awkward conversation there.  You will need to have an awkward conversation with at least one prof, however, for a recommendation.
If you are in the top 10 percent your chances at a top 20 seat are pretty decent.  Look at GULC or another school friendly to transfers.
You cannot do law review your first year or moot court.  Furthermore, if you transfer you cannot do it your second year either- you will not have a GPA.
Oh, and you realize that to transfer at all you need 30 credits (one full year), at least at all the schools I have seen, might be ABA rules.   Good luck.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: coto29 on March 07, 2010, 04:22:14 PM
Read the "how to" transfer book discussed in this forum.  "The Art of Law School Transfer"
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: M112 on March 07, 2010, 05:11:32 PM
You have scratched the surface with your research.  Typically, you will not get a scholarship if you transfer, your law school GPA does not go with you.  
How you can you finance your second and third year while not your first?  Like 90 percent of us must take out loans to some extent.
 As to getting a letter in good standing from the dean: usually the registrars office handles that, not the dean personally, so you will not need to have an awkward conversation there.  You will need to have an awkward conversation with at least one prof, however, for a recommendation.
If you are in the top 10 percent your chances at a top 20 seat are pretty decent.  Look at GULC or another school friendly to transfers.
You cannot do law review your first year or moot court.  Furthermore, if you transfer you cannot do it your second year either- you will not have a GPA.
Oh, and you realize that to transfer at all you need 30 credits (one full year), at least at all the schools I have seen, might be ABA rules.   Good luck.

Thanks a million for the response, it is a huge help.  To summarize the contents of your post:

I should not/will not receive any scholarship aid at my new school.  Is scholarship aid a possibility in year three?

Aside from the awkward conversations with the registrar and professors, will the school I am transferring from pull a scholarship or will negative consequences be relegated merely to the awkward nature of the situation?

I do plan on completing my first year of school i.e. 30 credits before I transfer, but given the nature of Moot Court, Law Journals and their 1-year G.P.A. requirement, would I be eligible to join them in my third year at my transfer school?

Also, to clarify, I cannot afford school strictly on loans my first year because I have already taken an amount of graduate Stafford Loans such that I will meet their limit for those loans by my third year of study if I began taking them in my first year.  However, if I get financial assistance my first year, I will have enough money left to complete my final two years of school without reaching their limit.  My current school has offered half of my tuition (approximately) upfront and I will most likely receive more aid to cover the remaining tuition which is why I will most likely go there this fall.

Thanks again for the response, any other pertinent information is appreciated.


Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: bigs5068 on March 07, 2010, 05:30:28 PM
In all honesty if you will be disappointed if you don't transfer it might be best not to go. The odds are you won't be in the top 10% it is no insult to you, but everybody in law school is SMART. No matter where you go 100% of students think they will be in the top 10%.  You can do the math and see how that will play out. The odds are that if you go to that school that is where you are going to stay. It is not impossible to transfer, but you have a 10% chance of doing it and that is not very good. Even if you do transfer you will lose all the relationships you made first year etc and as I understand it would almost be impossible to be on moot court, law review, etc at the school you transfer into. I could be wrong about that though.

Honestly, the rankings are pretty B.S. really look at the formula they use to determine schools and you will see that it makes no sense. You will see a private company took it upon themselves to make an unregulated regulation system that law school applicants take very seriously. However, the reality is once you get outside of the top 25 or so nobody cares about the rankings it is all about location. Everybody knows Harvard is a good law school, but nobody will really care about the difference between University of Maine and Lewis & Clark. They are both fine schools Maine is respected in Maine and Lewis & Clark is respected in Oregon. I just want to conclude by saying law school is hard whether you go to Cooley or Harvard you will learn the same thing and be in competition with very smart and motivated people. The odds of you being in the top 10% and transferring are very low and it is really something you should consider before going to the school, if your heart is absolutely set on transferring. Good Luck to you.   
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: M112 on March 07, 2010, 05:45:56 PM
In all honesty if you will be disappointed if you don't transfer it might be best not to go. The odds are you won't be in the top 10% it is no insult to you, but everybody in law school is SMART. No matter where you go 100% of students think they will be in the top 10%.  You can do the math and see how that will play out. The odds are that if you go to that school that is where you are going to stay. It is not impossible to transfer, but you have a 10% chance of doing it and that is not very good. Even if you do transfer you will lose all the relationships you made first year etc and as I understand it would almost be impossible to be on moot court, law review, etc at the school you transfer into. I could be wrong about that though.

Honestly, the rankings are pretty B.S. really look at the formula they use to determine schools and you will see that it makes no sense. You will see a private company took it upon themselves to make an unregulated regulation system that law school applicants take very seriously. However, the reality is once you get outside of the top 25 or so nobody cares about the rankings it is all about location. Everybody knows Harvard is a good law school, but nobody will really care about the difference between University of Maine and Lewis & Clark. They are both fine schools Maine is respected in Maine and Lewis & Clark is respected in Oregon. I just want to conclude by saying law school is hard whether you go to Cooley or Harvard you will learn the same thing and be in competition with very smart and motivated people. The odds of you being in the top 10% and transferring are very low and it is really something you should consider before going to the school, if your heart is absolutely set on transferring. Good Luck to you.   

Thanks for the response.  My goal has and will be to be at the top of my class, transfer or not, and while I understand everyone in law school is smart, my goals and expectations remain the same.  However, my intent is not to simply enroll in school to transfer, I would be fine completing all three years at my current school however, I always like to know what all of my options are and if transferring to a more prestigious school i.e. one that will help me land a job easier, get an OCI etc. presents itself, I will probably take advantage of it if finances permit.  I'm not so big on the social scene and my friends and the rest, so transferring out of one school to another doesn't really bother me in that respect.  The only relationships I would be worried about hurting would be with professors or other college staff.

My reasons for potentially transferring are two-fold.  First, some of the schools I would like to transfer to have better clinics in immigration, a field I wish to be a part of in the future.  Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, if a transfer to a more prestigious school would help my job prospects, as I suspect it would, it is an option I am willing to explore.  However, if I do not transfer, I am perfectly content at my current school especially with the large amount of scholarship money they have provided me.  I would essentially be debt-free upon graduation which is actually one of the reasons I might not transfer at all.  I am simply just trying to set-up contingencies for myself so that all available options are at my disposal.  Thank you for the response though any other pertinent information is appreciated.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: bigs5068 on March 07, 2010, 09:50:46 PM
You should have the desire to be number 1 without question.

One thing to be wary about transferring is to not get to caught up in rankings, a few of my friends transferred from GGU a Tier 4 to Santa Clara or USF tier 2 schools and are not to happy with their decision at all.  This is because, they moved from the 127th best school to the 87th or something, but they lost between 40 and 70 thousand dollars worth of scholarship money. The reality is GGU, Santa Clara, or USF are not going to make that much of a difference in employment. We have Stanford, Berkeley, and Hastings right here and the difference between GGU, Santa Clara, and USF is not that great when dealing with jobs. Santa Clara or USF might offer somewhat of a leg up, but not a 70,000 with 8% interest leg up. The reality is GGU, Santa Clara, or USF  are not going to result in employers chasing you down. When you are dealing with 88, 72, and 121 it's not much of a difference. Now had some of those people transferred into Stanford or Berkley it would be a different and they would have probably been a lot more satisfied with their decision.

In all honesty the rankings are pretty bogus.  If you look at the formula you will see only 12% of the formula is objective the remaining 88% is purely subjective based on U.S. News opinion, which is a private company and the ABA and LSAC specifically say to ignore it. Obviously, there are elite schools that will open doors and you and me both knew what those schools were when we were 5 years old. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and schools of that Elk are ELITE and will open doors a tier 2, 3, or 4 will not. However, I would recommend not transferring from a tier 4 to a tier 2 everyone I know that has done that has been disappointed. I am sure there are exceptions, but that is the consensus of the people I have talked to.

I am only in my first of law school so I might be talking out of my ass, but that is just my own experience. However, I know I will not transfer to Santa Clara or USF based on what I have heard from people that have transferred from GGU to those schools have told me about their experience. 
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: M112 on March 08, 2010, 02:36:48 PM
You should have the desire to be number 1 without question.

One thing to be wary about transferring is to not get to caught up in rankings, a few of my friends transferred from GGU a Tier 4 to Santa Clara or USF tier 2 schools and are not to happy with their decision at all.  This is because, they moved from the 127th best school to the 87th or something, but they lost between 40 and 70 thousand dollars worth of scholarship money. The reality is GGU, Santa Clara, or USF are not going to make that much of a difference in employment. We have Stanford, Berkeley, and Hastings right here and the difference between GGU, Santa Clara, and USF is not that great when dealing with jobs. Santa Clara or USF might offer somewhat of a leg up, but not a 70,000 with 8% interest leg up. The reality is GGU, Santa Clara, or USF  are not going to result in employers chasing you down. When you are dealing with 88, 72, and 121 it's not much of a difference. Now had some of those people transferred into Stanford or Berkley it would be a different and they would have probably been a lot more satisfied with their decision.

In all honesty the rankings are pretty bogus.  If you look at the formula you will see only 12% of the formula is objective the remaining 88% is purely subjective based on U.S. News opinion, which is a private company and the ABA and LSAC specifically say to ignore it. Obviously, there are elite schools that will open doors and you and me both knew what those schools were when we were 5 years old. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and schools of that Elk are ELITE and will open doors a tier 2, 3, or 4 will not. However, I would recommend not transferring from a tier 4 to a tier 2 everyone I know that has done that has been disappointed. I am sure there are exceptions, but that is the consensus of the people I have talked to.

I am only in my first of law school so I might be talking out of my ass, but that is just my own experience. However, I know I will not transfer to Santa Clara or USF based on what I have heard from people that have transferred from GGU to those schools have told me about their experience.  

Very much appreciate the comments and advice.  In the hypothetical you provided, if I were inserted into them rather than your friends, I would probably end up forgoing a transfer and staying at my current school.  I actually have my sights set on only two schools for possible transfer for two different reasons.  One is a top 10 school, of the elk you mentioned (my long shot school) and the second school is a top 30 school that I am still yet to hear word from I may just end up on the wait list.  This school is not only Tier 1 school, but would also to cost me less to attend than my current school, scholarship withstanding, so the financial consideration is another possible reason for transfer.  

The transfer is not the be all end all for me though.  I am content at my current school and appreciate all the help they have already given me.  However, if I had an opportunity to go to an Ivy League school or a top 30 school that would cost me less, I would almost assuredly take it.  Again not saying it will happen, just want to test the possibility and take a shot at it.

Again thanks a million for the response though.  Any other pertinent information is appreciated.    
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: Aluhks on March 10, 2010, 05:52:38 AM
One of the posters above gave slightly inaccurate information about moot court/law review. It's true you can't do those during your first year. If you transfer, however, you do not necessarily lose out on your ability to do those during your second year. Each school has its own selection methods for law review, secondary journals, and moot court. Some accommodate transfers (for example, by reserving journal spaces and having a second writing competition transfers only in the fall or by requiring prospective transfers to compete in the main competition in the spring). If those are activities you're interested in and you end up looking to transfer, make sure to do your research thoroughly.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: coto29 on March 10, 2010, 10:21:20 AM
Really, what school allow that? Every one I have looked at have competition in the summer, i.e. before the transfer process.  Do you have a list?
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: Aluhks on March 10, 2010, 03:31:54 PM
I don't have a list. I am a transfer myself, from one school in the northeast to another. Both the school I ended up transferring to and my other top choice for transferring had some variation available. Where I am now, the Law Review held 1 space for transfers (other journals held  more) and there was a fall transfer-only competition. I ended up on a secondary journal. At my other top choice for transferring, all journals EXCEPT the law review were open to transfers via a similar competition.

Also, some schools allow potential transfers who have not yet been admitted to compete in their spring/summer writing competitions. Here too I don't have a list, although I know Columbia and Harvard both do this for their law review

Check out the transferapps group on yahoo. Also dig around on the websites of any school you're interested in.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: coto29 on March 11, 2010, 09:06:12 AM
Hmm. Interesting.  I didn't know that.  Nice.  Sadly for me, all the schools I am looking at do not allow transfers to do Law Review because the GPA doesn't go with the student.  I figured its the price we have to pay and in reality its not that high of a price, not in the long run.  But it still is a nice option to have available.  Good Luck
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: Thane Messinger on March 16, 2010, 08:15:54 PM
Additionally, being that I am currently going to school at a T4, what is my ceiling as far as transfer is concerned assuming that my class standing at the end of my first year falls anywhere from top five (5) overall on the high end, to barely top 10% in my class on the low end?  Is top 10 a realistic possibility, or is top 30, or top 50 more likely?  Moreover, is their a general rule regarding transfers and financial aid packages i.e. would I possibly be eligible for any scholarships or would that have to wait at a minimum until I have completed one year at my new school?

Also, for some schools I took a look at, their transfer policy states that you must receive a letter of good standing from the dean of the college you want to transfer out from.  Now, would my approaching a dean about a transfer lead to the possible revocation of my scholarship ?  Any pertinent information is greatly appreciated.  


Good questions, and some good responses.  As to realistic chances of getting great grades, those are determined by the work you put in and by how smart you study.  (Note: not just how much, but also how well your habits reinforce and understanding of the law and of how to apply that understanding to a new, complex fact pattern--the exam.)  If you seek to transfer, you must seek to accomplish excellent grades. 

As to where those grades might put you, rather than speculate there is a chart in the book mentioned, Art of the Law School Transfer, that might be helpful.

As to scholarships, actually the opposite is true.  Deans know that they'll lose a few of their very best students.  So, they might, just might be willing to entice a few to stay.  It's true that you're unlikely to get scholarships to a new law school, but you are likely to get possibilities from your current school, if you do exceptionally well. 

That written, there is a timeline to this process.  So, for now, the key is to read the threads on "preparing for law school" and "thinking like a lawyer," and plan on doing extremely well.  As much as many might lead you to believe this is luck, that is just a minor part of the overall picture.

At this point I would say best of luck, but how about . . . go get 'em!   = :  )
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: lawyergirl25 on April 11, 2010, 08:49:59 PM
Many schools do allow transfers the opportunity to join law review.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: eman154 on May 27, 2010, 08:12:20 AM

You need to work your f-ing ass off. I did this. I took the money from a TTT. Worked my ass off dominated. Transfered to CCN. Now soon to begin a SA that 95% of law school students (including me if I had stayed) had no shot at getting based on school alone.

The key to succesfully implementing this strategy is work. You will be amazed at how many students at the lower tiered schools think law school is like undergrad (general consensus among non t30 transfers). Do all the reading, go to every class, do not bring a computer, make your own outline (there is no secret formula whatever works for you). You will not have any 1L friends but @#!* it, you want to transfer anyway. It's like naming lobsters before you eat them, don't do it. Pick out 5-10 other classmates who are smart who you view as your competition and try to do better than them. Going out on friday/saturday is fine, week is not o.k. but many of your classmates will be going out and no doing the necessary work. I assure you of this.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: makaf2000 on May 27, 2010, 02:49:25 PM
Check with each school you think to transfer to. Also, make up a list of questions you have (most important ones) and email admissions of the schools where you want to transfer too. Also, totally agree with other posters - it is VERY unlikelly to get into top 10% in law school. I was in top 5% in some of my undegrad classes, and totally blew first semester at law school. While my second semester grades are better now - it will not help too much this year anyway because of plain statistics. Law school exams are a a gamble/lottery. All depends on each professor, your typing speed, how fast you think. I am very, very strong at analysis, nevertheless I type slow and it affected my grades as well. Plus, there are tricks that wroked for me this year, and they have nothing to do with how intelligent you are, more with how smart you are. Go to school which you will be happy to graduate from. If not, get as much internship/extenrship experience as possible, experience matters almost as much as grades in the long run.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 27, 2010, 05:38:36 PM
If you haven't begun 1L studies and are planning a transfer you are in for a world or rude awakening. If you want to get into a better school then take the asvab again, raise your GPA and get in. If you can't then despite your best efforts your odds are that you will end up in the median range at lawschool. I know this might amaze you but everyone else there is smart and dedicated too.

Might you transfer, sure. Might you be the #1 student, mabey. Just dont work yourself up too much if you never transfer out and end up on academic probation for at least a semester. Life happens, get ready for it now.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: coto29 on May 29, 2010, 10:25:27 PM
asvab?
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 30, 2010, 07:30:20 AM
yes, asvab.

asvab?
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: coto29 on May 31, 2010, 08:29:44 AM
What does the asvab have to do with law school?  He can raise it, but is that relevant?
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on May 31, 2010, 05:31:03 PM
The tests struck me as simular. Take them both and compare.

What does the asvab have to do with law school?  He can raise it, but is that relevant?
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: Tsmdiver on June 28, 2010, 02:36:43 PM
The best way to successfully plan to transfer to another law school after your first year: do not "plan" anything. Believe me, whether you are at a T4 or a T1, one thing is certain, you will have A LOT of work to do. Transferring up a notch or two will hinge mainly on your ranking and first year grades. So, it makes sense to focus all of your energy on preparing for 1L classes and studying, not transferring. Further, your file will likely not be considered "complete" until the rankings have been released, which usually takes a month or so after your finals. The point: worry about your transfer apps after you take your finals.

Also, keep in mind that you should devote quality time to preparing your applications. Research the schools. Customize your personal/diversity statements to fit neatly with each school that will receive an application from you. Personalize yourself!

Last but not least, keep your head held high. There are many students, plenty to be found on this forum, who are quick to bash a particular school or a particular type of school. Remember, if you really want to transfer- then make it happen. 

This advice is coming from a T4 to T1 transfer student.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on June 28, 2010, 06:31:08 PM
join a bookclub and imagine taking one test a semester per class. That is what it will be like. The rest is just hot air that people puff out to pretend their lives are harder and more important than in reality. Its just one damn book club, thats it. Honest to God, thats all.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: M112 on June 29, 2010, 09:09:01 AM
The best way to successfully plan to transfer to another law school after your first year: do not "plan" anything. Believe me, whether you are at a T4 or a T1, one thing is certain, you will have A LOT of work to do. Transferring up a notch or two will hinge mainly on your ranking and first year grades. So, it makes sense to focus all of your energy on preparing for 1L classes and studying, not transferring. Further, your file will likely not be considered "complete" until the rankings have been released, which usually takes a month or so after your finals. The point: worry about your transfer apps after you take your finals.

Also, keep in mind that you should devote quality time to preparing your applications. Research the schools. Customize your personal/diversity statements to fit neatly with each school that will receive an application from you. Personalize yourself!

Last but not least, keep your head held high. There are many students, plenty to be found on this forum, who are quick to bash a particular school or a particular type of school. Remember, if you really want to transfer- then make it happen. 

This advice is coming from a T4 to T1 transfer student.

Thanks a million to you as well as everyone else that provided the thoughtful responses.  A few questions for you specifically' if possible, would you mind telling me which T4 to which T1 you transferred to (you can PM me that information if your willing to share it with me but not everyone else or not divulge it all if you don't feel comfortable doing so)?  Also, would you mind telling me about where you ended up at the end of the first year in your T4, the whole transfer application process and maybe just a summary of the events leading up to your successful transfer? 

Any insight, hindsight, or general advice that you might pass on to someone else looking to make a similar move outside of what you provided above would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: Cicero on June 30, 2010, 08:56:55 PM
--don't fall behind on your reading thinking that you can do it later
--if you get confused about anything you're learning, go to the supplements for help, and if that doesn't clear things up, then talk to your prof/TA
--figure out what kind of exam you are up against and how your profs prefer them to be answered--format, do they want case names, etc.
--practice, practice, practice--Q&A, Cali, Law in a Flash, practice essays, etc. (your LS library may have a lot of these supplements, you may want to buy some, and CALI should be provided to you for free online)
--I say make your own outline, but a lot of people don't like to do that. I found that making the outline, revising it, and then creating smaller and smaller versions really helped me to compartmentalize the material and internalize it.
--study groups...I kind of had a study group, but it was more of a group of friends that provided extra support for each other during finals time--lunch or a movie to take our minds off of things, study in the same room and sometimes go over questions or material together, commiserate after a tough final. Some students seemed to really like study groups, or book clubs as Thelo calls them, but I personally didn't like the weekly ones. I found that we ended up talking more than studying.
--at finals time you might want to stay away from the school, except if you're meeting your study group to go over the material (at least 1st semester). The library and study class rooms are often packed with stressed out students who may just stress you out more with their panicking.

(advice comes from a T-4 to T-1 transfer)
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: bigs5068 on June 30, 2010, 10:44:38 PM
Just plain don't count on transferring honestly the above post is good advice, but a lot of people do that and don't finish in the top 15%. Bottom line is there a 15% maybe chance you will be able to transfer and spending a year of your life and 30,000 for a %15 chance is not a good idea.

If you really want to be a lawyer then go to law school wherever you can and it will probably work out in some capacity, but if your sole goal is transferring it is probably not going to happen.
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: Cicero on July 01, 2010, 11:10:25 AM
Bigs is right that it doesn't work for everyone. I was just trying to respond with things that might improve your chances. I certainly didn't go to law school expecting to transfer. Far from it. After a few weeks into the semester, I was worried that I might fail out. Most people in my section seemed to share the fear that they might fail. It wasn't until my 1st semester grades came out that I really started considering transferring, and even then I worried about the fact that I might not be able to do as well as the first semester because we had some new subjects and because students who didn't do as well the first semester had seriously buckled down and were well prepared. After exams, I again felt like transferring wasn't an option. Then grades came out, and I had done better than I had thought. I guess the moral of the story is that the 1st year of LS is a roller coaster of stress and anxiety and you won't really know if you can transfer until after your 2nd semester grades come out and 1 of your transfer schools says yes. However, if you do well your first semester and you want to transfer, you do need to ask for recommendations from your profs before exam time. (The other lesson of the story is that I'm stressed out way too much. lol. Hopefully, you won't get stressed out as easily, but trying to be at the top can be pretty stressful.) Law school is an adventure. Good luck!
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on July 01, 2010, 11:12:27 AM
transfering is for people who can't stand the wedgies at their school.

"but it'll somehow make me "better" then them.......important somehow......" :'(
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: Thane Messinger on July 01, 2010, 12:36:09 PM
Cicero offers excellent advice, whether or not one hopes to transfer. 

A minor point, not at all against his, is that "reading" isn't the same as "case briefing," which is how many attempt to study.  Your secondary sources (supplements) should come BEFORE your cases.  And it is IMPERATIVE to keep up.  It's not volume of studying.  It's dedication to learning--and the learning must happen BEFORE class.

Thane.

--don't fall behind on your reading thinking that you can do it later
--if you get confused about anything you're learning, go to the supplements for help, and if that doesn't clear things up, then talk to your prof/TA
--figure out what kind of exam you are up against and how your profs prefer them to be answered--format, do they want case names, etc.
--practice, practice, practice--Q&A, Cali, Law in a Flash, practice essays, etc. (your LS library may have a lot of these supplements, you may want to buy some, and CALI should be provided to you for free online)
--I say make your own outline, but a lot of people don't like to do that. I found that making the outline, revising it, and then creating smaller and smaller versions really helped me to compartmentalize the material and internalize it.
--study groups...I kind of had a study group, but it was more of a group of friends that provided extra support for each other during finals time--lunch or a movie to take our minds off of things, study in the same room and sometimes go over questions or material together, commiserate after a tough final. Some students seemed to really like study groups, or book clubs as Thelo calls them, but I personally didn't like the weekly ones. I found that we ended up talking more than studying.
--at finals time you might want to stay away from the school, except if you're meeting your study group to go over the material (at least 1st semester). The library and study class rooms are often packed with stressed out students who may just stress you out more with their panicking.

(advice comes from a T-4 to T-1 transfer)
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: bigs5068 on July 01, 2010, 12:37:52 PM
I feel that is an accurate statement of about everybody in law school particularly your first year. I thought I might fail out as well and I was just hoping to do well enough to pass the first year and I ended up doing well I even got two best essays so my answers will live on even if I fail the bar and never get a job. Even on those two I thought I might have failed them and I ended up having the best answer law school is crazy because you have no idea how it will turn out.  To further the point the one test I thought I really did nail first semester I ended up getting a C+.  Then I got best essay in contracts & property and I really was not sure I had any idea what going on on those two. So law school is crazy.

I feel that way at my internship now I have no idea what I am doing half the time, but for the most part they said I have done good work up to this point. The law is stressful and there are really no right answers, which is what is really scary about it. 


Bigs is right that it doesn't work for everyone. I was just trying to respond with things that might improve your chances. I certainly didn't go to law school expecting to transfer. Far from it. After a few weeks into the semester, I was worried that I might fail out. Most people in my section seemed to share the fear that they might fail. It wasn't until my 1st semester grades came out that I really started considering transferring, and even then I worried about the fact that I might not be able to do as well as the first semester because we had some new subjects and because students who didn't do as well the first semester had seriously buckled down and were well prepared. After exams, I again felt like transferring wasn't an option. Then grades came out, and I had done better than I had thought. I guess the moral of the story is that the 1st year of LS is a roller coaster of stress and anxiety and you won't really know if you can transfer until after your 2nd semester grades come out and 1 of your transfer schools says yes. However, if you do well your first semester and you want to transfer, you do need to ask for recommendations from your profs before exam time. (The other lesson of the story is that I'm stressed out way too much. lol. Hopefully, you won't get stressed out as easily, but trying to be at the top can be pretty stressful.) Law school is an adventure. Good luck!
Title: Re: How to successfuly plan to transfer before even beginning 1L studies?
Post by: cooleylawstudent on July 01, 2010, 04:44:35 PM
wow, actually knowing what you read and being able to talk about the key point in it...........what a new concept! INSANITY!!!!!! >:(

Cicero offers excellent advice, whether or not one hopes to transfer. 

A minor point, not at all against his, is that "reading" isn't the same as "case briefing," which is how many attempt to study.  Your secondary sources (supplements) should come BEFORE your cases.  And it is IMPERATIVE to keep up.  It's not volume of studying.  It's dedication to learning--and the learning must happen BEFORE class.

Thane.

--don't fall behind on your reading thinking that you can do it later
--if you get confused about anything you're learning, go to the supplements for help, and if that doesn't clear things up, then talk to your prof/TA
--figure out what kind of exam you are up against and how your profs prefer them to be answered--format, do they want case names, etc.
--practice, practice, practice--Q&A, Cali, Law in a Flash, practice essays, etc. (your LS library may have a lot of these supplements, you may want to buy some, and CALI should be provided to you for free online)
--I say make your own outline, but a lot of people don't like to do that. I found that making the outline, revising it, and then creating smaller and smaller versions really helped me to compartmentalize the material and internalize it.
--study groups...I kind of had a study group, but it was more of a group of friends that provided extra support for each other during finals time--lunch or a movie to take our minds off of things, study in the same room and sometimes go over questions or material together, commiserate after a tough final. Some students seemed to really like study groups, or book clubs as Thelo calls them, but I personally didn't like the weekly ones. I found that we ended up talking more than studying.
--at finals time you might want to stay away from the school, except if you're meeting your study group to go over the material (at least 1st semester). The library and study class rooms are often packed with stressed out students who may just stress you out more with their panicking.

(advice comes from a T-4 to T-1 transfer)