Loyola Law School versus the University of San Diego School of Law

[If accepted off the Loyola waitlist, should I attend over USD?]

If accepted off the Loyola waitlist, should I attend over USD?

Yes, you would be going to a strong T2 in the same city as your family

Yes, you would be silly to pass up Loyola since your stepfather went there, is willing to tutor you, and will likely give you a job

Yes, Loyola is better than USD

No, USD is better than Loyola

No, go with your gut (USD). Now with 16K my first year!

[Roman815]

First off, I want to thank everyone for their input. My situation is this: I'm basically being scared to death about not being able to pay back my law school loans by my stepfather even though he was the one who pushed me to go to law school. Nevertheless, I am going to attend law school not because my family wants me to but because I want to. My family still doesn't see that my choice was based on my own interests rather than their arm twisting. Additionally, my stepfather has always said that I have the brains to do well in law school but now believes that I will flunk out because I have a bad work ethic, a belief that is based on my GPA. He thinks that I should go to Loyola Law School instead of the University of San Diego School of Law because Loyola is a stronger school. He has also successfully tutored law students in the past and wants to tutor me while I attend his alma mater. I don't think that his analysis is correct nor do I want to be around someone who is so insulting. On top of that, he is very arrogant and irritable. So why would I want to end up like him? I would rather go to school in San Diego than in downtown LA since my goal is to avoid LA.

Furthermore, my stepfather insists that those coming out of USD have the same job opportunities as those at Pacific-McGeorge, which offered me 15K a year, and that Loyola is in the same league as NYU. I think that he's insane. He says that it took him 10 years to pay back his loans and I expect the same unless I am at the top of my class. Now the question is, should I put up with going to school in a city that I don't want to practice in because USD supposedly has worse job prospects? I've heard that San Diego is in a tiny legal market and that it will be very difficult to find a job there. The positives of going to Loyola are that it's supposedly a stronger school with better job prospects, my family lives in LA, I already have a good place to live, and I will have a tutor if I stay here. On top of that, my family is likely to help me financially if I go to Loyola and might be less willing to do so if I go to USD. The negatives of going to Loyola are that I would likely end up in LA since the network is best here, I have to put up with my arrogant stepfather, I have to go to school in downtown LA, Loyola doesn't have the community feel that USD does, and Loyola's attrition rate is worse than USD's. My gut feeling tells me to go with USD and to pass on Loyola even though my stepfather would likely give me a job after law school. I just don't want to go to the same school as he did, I don't want to be like him, I don't like the atmosphere of Loyola or Los Angeles, and I would really prefer to get away. Am I really stupid for passing up all these opportunities or am I smart for going with my gut feeling and staying away from the lunacy here?

[pastor of muppets]

I'm afraid I can't help you.  My impression is that Loyola is a better school that will offer better opportunities, and that you should go there.  If you don't want to go to Loyola, but have a potential job to at least fall back on after graduation, I would say you should go with Pacific-McGeorge, so as to graduate with less debt.  However, you should definitely know much more about the legal market in California than I do.

Also, you clearly want to go to USD.  How much is it worth to you, to go to a school you think you will like a lot more in a city you would much rather live in?  I can't tell you that.  I also can't help you out with the family issues, besides saying that my personal recommendation would be to set them aside entirely in making this decision.

[Roman815]

I'm afraid I can't help you.  My impression is that Loyola is a better school that will offer better opportunities, and that you should go there.  If you don't want to go to Loyola, but have a potential job to at least fall back on after graduation, I would say you should go with Pacific-McGeorge, so as to graduate with less debt.  However, you should definitely know much more about the legal market in California than I do.

Also, you clearly want to go to USD.  How much is it worth to you, to go to a school you think you will like a lot more in a city you would much rather live in?  I can't tell you that.  I also can't help you out with the family issues, besides saying that my personal recommendation would be to set them aside entirely in making this decision.

Thanks for your comments. That advice does help me. I know that I have to make this decisions based on what I want for myself. The good news is that I'm on the waitlist so I don't have to justify not going if I never get accepted. From everything I've seen on LSN though, almost everyone with a 160/3.0 or above gets off the waitlist. I just want to be prepared to make a choice quickly. I also withdrew from McGeorge a week ago so that is not longer an option, not that I would choose it over USD. I think USD is a great school in a very nice city. It's also close enough to my family so that I can visit on occasion without having to actually live in LA.

[donvito]

go with the place where you will be happy.  the happier you are, the more likely you will succeed.

you already know my story about USD.  i still have to hear back from Loyola, but i don't really like LA like you.  i would pick USD over Loyola.  and mcgeorge, i thought about applying there, but i really dont want to go to sacramento either.

either way, it will be a very difficult decision.  if you pick USD, i am sure your step dad will be a bit insulted.  i am not too excited about the job prospects at USD, which was why i didnt really want to go there.  i believe they had the lowest employment stats of the top 100 schools this year.  like 86% after a year.  that's not very good really.  but, you seem like a smart guy so i dont think you will fall under that 14%.

best of luck to you.  i also have some very tough decisions, and as you know, i am still uneasy about my decision to decline USD.  decisions decisions...

[sno]

Roman, like many have said, go where you'd be happiest. Even if it doesn't equal success, you'll be a happier failure  . I mean, I find it hard to believe that your stepfather is willing to help you if you go to Loyola but won't help at all if you choose USD. Whether or not your family's willing to help you financially based on your choice of school, that's a different issue.

I mean, from what you've said, I sure as hell wouldn't listen to your stepfather. I mean, there's one of 2 possibilities. He's either grossly misinformed or he's biased to the point of borderline insanity. I mean, come on. Loyola = NYU?? Are you kidding? Loyola =/= UCLA or USC let alone NYU. USD job prospects like McGeorge? I don't know much about McGeorge job prospects, but I HIGHLY doubt it. No, US News doesn't have the best employment figures for USD this year, but those figures are questionable. It's rumored that many schools will hire their grads right around the 9th month just so that they can say their alum is employed. Is that really the kind of employment figure you want trust? And I only say "rumored" because I have no evidence as to whether or not it's true, but I believe it. I'm sure a lot of schools don't do that, but it makes me wonder which ones do. The admin here (USD) has told us that they don't do that. It only came up because of the rank drop this year. Could they be lying to us? Yes. Do I think they are? No.

I think you put too much emphasis on "I don't want to be like my stepfather." Especially in the context of where you ultimately decide to go. You're not going to turn out like him just because you choose to go to Loyola, nor will you necessarily avoid turning out like him because you come to USD. It's your decision. You can't always make your family happy. If making them happy is THAT important to you, go where they want you to. If making yourself happy is important to you, go where you want. I really don't see anyone getting THAT pissed off because you didn't choose to go to their alma mater.

[orangebanana]

Loyola's job prospects after 9 mos aren't significantly  better than USD's are they?
If you want to work in SD, USD might be better than Loyola from what I've been hearing. My dilemma about USD is the money. I could go to Houston on the cheap, but I don't want to work in Houston. Also, I think 86% employed isn't as bad as people say. As long as you're near the top of the class, it seems fine. 
Did USD offer you a scholarship?

[«ě»]

Loyola's job prospects are better than USD, but only marginally to be honest. If you add in the factor that you really don't want to work in LA, USD should be your first choice.

[Roman815]

Loyola's job prospects after 9 mos aren't significantly  better than USD's are they?
If you want to work in SD, USD might be better than Loyola from what I've been hearing. My dilemma about USD is the money. I could go to Houston on the cheap, but I don't want to work in Houston. Also, I think 86% employed isn't as bad as people say. As long as you're near the top of the class, it seems fine. 
Did USD offer you a scholarship?

No they didn't offer me a scholarship and 57K a year for 3 years is going to kill my finances for the next 10 years or more. I guess I would have the same issue with all of the schools but it just seems that USD is a bit more expensive than the rest.

Loyola's job prospects are better than USD, but only marginally to be honest. If you add in the factor that you really don't want to work in LA, USD should be your first choice.

Thanks, I was thinking that as well. I would rather work in SD but I was worried that I would be forced to come back to LA or Riverside because SD lacked jobs. In that case Loyola would be better I think. In any event, I'm not admitted at Loyola and I wonder how long I should wait before totally giving up. I will have to sign a contract sometime in July so I guess that's when I finally make a decision. If I don't hear by then I will go to USD but if I do get in then I'll think about going to Loyola.

[Roman815]

Thank you all for your input but USD just made it much easier for me to attend. They gave me $16,000 for my first year! Now even my family agrees that I should go to USD. I am so thankful that everything worked itself out. 

[wiimote]

First off, I want to thank everyone for their input. My situation is this: I'm basically being scared to death about not being able to pay back my law school loans by my stepfather even though he was the one who pushed me to go to law school. Nevertheless, I am going to attend law school not because my family wants me to but because I want to. My family still doesn't see that my choice was based on my own interests rather than their arm twisting. Additionally, my stepfather has always said that I have the brains to do well in law school but now believes that I will flunk out because I have a bad work ethic, a belief that is based on my GPA. He thinks that I should go to Loyola Law School instead of the University of San Diego School of Law because Loyola is a stronger school. He has also successfully tutored law students in the past and wants to tutor me while I attend his alma mater. I don't think that his analysis is correct nor do I want to be around someone who is so insulting. On top of that, he is very arrogant and irritable. So why would I want to end up like him? I would rather go to school in San Diego than in downtown LA since my goal is to avoid LA.

Furthermore, my stepfather insists that those coming out of USD have the same job opportunities as those at Pacific-McGeorge, which offered me 15K a year, and that Loyola is in the same league as NYU. I think that he's insane. He says that it took him 10 years to pay back his loans and I expect the same unless I am at the top of my class. Now the question is, should I put up with going to school in a city that I don't want to practice in because USD supposedly has worse job prospects? I've heard that San Diego is in a tiny legal market and that it will be very difficult to find a job there. The positives of going to Loyola are that it's supposedly a stronger school with better job prospects, my family lives in LA, I already have a good place to live, and I will have a tutor if I stay here. On top of that, my family is likely to help me financially if I go to Loyola and might be less willing to do so if I go to USD. The negatives of going to Loyola are that I would likely end up in LA since the network is best here, I have to put up with my arrogant stepfather, I have to go to school in downtown LA, Loyola doesn't have the community feel that USD does, and Loyola's attrition rate is worse than USD's. My gut feeling tells me to go with USD and to pass on Loyola even though my stepfather would likely give me a job after law school. I just don't want to go to the same school as he did, I don't want to be like him, I don't like the atmosphere of Loyola or Los Angeles, and I would really prefer to get away. Am I really stupid for passing up all these opportunities or am I smart for going with my gut feeling and staying away from the lunacy here?

Tell your step dad to shut the @#!* up. Comparing Loyola's job placement with NYU's is preposterously uninformed, and shows his lack of credibility. All three are expensive toilet schools (before scholarships) with similar US News & World Report job placement numbers.